From General.2018 at outlook.com  Mon Feb  1 04:51:33 2021
From: General.2018 at outlook.com (General 2018)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 09:51:33 +0000
Subject: MergExt BLE
In-Reply-To: <CB9EFAAC-DC8F-4611-B323-B4A131887A33@appisle.net>
References: <HE1PR1001MB138671F68D1A5217838F29F58FA80@HE1PR1001MB1386.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <HE1PR1001MB13864A795C0F1E48220192AA8FA00@HE1PR1001MB1386.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <HE1PR1001MB1386E2A277F7B79E9164085D8FB89@HE1PR1001MB1386.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
 <CB9EFAAC-DC8F-4611-B323-B4A131887A33@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <DB6PR1001MB1381F63A49341B459DDD45218FB69@DB6PR1001MB1381.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thanks Monte , I will go that route.

Regards Camm

> On 1 Feb 2021, at 01:11, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Camm
> 
> The mergExt externals are supported by LiveCode so the best route for support is support at livecode.com <mailto:support at livecode.com>.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
>> On 31 Jan 2021, at 1:16 am, General 2018 via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Is Monte able to support MergeBLE still or is this now solely with Livecode ?
>> 
>> Anyone help please .
>> 
>> Regards Camm
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Feb  1 04:52:17 2021
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 09:52:17 +0000
Subject: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server
In-Reply-To: <CDDC03FF-18C0-41D2-9B4D-2D58AB836A28@canelasoftware.com>
References: <7b745671-e8f8-71cd-51b0-95f0964b97e2@cogapp.com>
 <0D57ABE2-BB58-4A77-AE47-F22AEDDBAC39@m-r-d.de>
 <107206d6-7cd5-c210-a5d0-8a8584001348@cogapp.com>
 <CDDC03FF-18C0-41D2-9B4D-2D58AB836A28@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <ca8e171d-63f1-b1d4-c5ba-85d9e6357216@cogapp.com>

Thanks Mark (and Matthias). That's very useful info which I'll stash for 
another time.

In this case I really don't want to use the LC code over HTTP. It is purely a 
utility to run locally on this machine at scheduled intervals, in support of 
some other processes.

For several reasons it would be more convenient to run it as a stack rather 
than just a script, though it would be possible to go the latter way.

So two questions:

- just to be clear, does LiveCode Server only work receiving requests from 
Apache/nginx/whatever? Or can it be run from the command line?

- is there a way to install ordinary LiveCode on a headless linux box? Or will 
the installer demand a GUI to complete?

Many thanks,

Ben

On 31/01/2021 02:22, Mark Talluto wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> 
> My favorite method is to build server code with standalones and script only 
> stacks. You can run them headless using the -ui method as you proposed earlier.
> You can have the standalone act as a starter stack that loads in your script 
> only stacks as libraries. This model makes it easy to do future updates 
> because they are not built into the standalone itself.
> 
> Place standalone and stack files here:
> - Apache
> IP Number/home/standalone
> /home/libaries/stack files here
> 
> - nginx
> IP/usr/local/bin/standalone
> /bin/libraries/stack files here
> 
> Each executable is always on for performance. They use very little cpu when 
> they are waiting for something to do. In my experience, they rest a 0% between 
> loops and jump to around 3% when checking on the workload. They will jump up 
> to some other value when they are processing. When done, they return to the 
> 0-3% consumption.
> 
> We use PHP to receive incoming posts to the VM. After PHP does its thing, it 
> passes the posted request to the LiveCode standalone. The process repeats 
> itself as data is posted to the VM.
> 
> This has been a proven model for us. We have used it for many years with 
> LiveCloud.
> 
> You can use this model in many ways. It will depend on what you are trying to 
> accomplish.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io>
> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2021, at 8:34 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Matthias,
>>
>> Thanks for answering.
>>
>> I haven't looked into Livecode Server. When you say I could run livecode 
>> scripts directly from shell, does that means scripts, but not stacks?
>>
>> Is Livecode Server easier to install on a 'headless' system? Is there 
>> somewhere I should look to find explanation of differences/pros/cons of 
>> Server versus IDE editions?
>>
>> thank you,
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On 29/01/2021 20:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Ben,
>>> is there a reason why you do not install/use Livecode Server instead of 
>>> Livecode IDE on your system?
>>> You could run livecode scripts directly from shell.
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthias
>>> -
>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>>> Am 29.01.2021 um 19:44 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>>>
>>>> So I want to install LC on a headless - i.e. no GUI, access over SSH - 
>>>> Ubuntu 20.
>>>>
>>>> (Then I'll be using it to run a particular stack on a cron job.)
>>>>
>>>> I've done this a long time ago with a standalone - but in this case I'd 
>>>> rather be able to do it with a stack.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing that I know about is "-ui" but I'm not even far enough 
>>>> along to make use of this.
>>>>
>>>> My first question is what's the best way to install it? Do I download the 
>>>> installer, e.g. "LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_1-Linux.x64", move it to 
>>>> the server and run it there? Or is that going to be a GUI installer?
>>>>
>>>> Are there options I need to know about like where it should go?
>>>>
>>>> And then are there tips about where I put my stacks, how to see error or 
>>>> debugging output, how the stack reads command line parameters etc?
>>>>
>>>> Any and all advice welcome - especially of course "go and read this guide 
>>>> over here you idiot".
>>>>
>>>> TIA,
>>>>
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Feb  1 07:07:02 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 13:07:02 +0100
Subject: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server
In-Reply-To: <ca8e171d-63f1-b1d4-c5ba-85d9e6357216@cogapp.com>
References: <7b745671-e8f8-71cd-51b0-95f0964b97e2@cogapp.com>
 <0D57ABE2-BB58-4A77-AE47-F22AEDDBAC39@m-r-d.de>
 <107206d6-7cd5-c210-a5d0-8a8584001348@cogapp.com>
 <CDDC03FF-18C0-41D2-9B4D-2D58AB836A28@canelasoftware.com>
 <ca8e171d-63f1-b1d4-c5ba-85d9e6357216@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <EB568389-9EDF-4210-B1B2-DB7E1A2A002E@m-r-d.de>


> Am 01.02.2021 um 10:52 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Thanks Mark (and Matthias). That's very useful info which I'll stash for another time.
> 
> In this case I really don't want to use the LC code over HTTP. It is purely a utility to run locally on this machine at scheduled intervals, in support of some other processes.
> 
> For several reasons it would be more convenient to run it as a stack rather than just a script, though it would be possible to go the latter way.
> 
> So two questions:
> 
> - just to be clear, does LiveCode Server only work receiving requests from Apache/nginx/whatever? Or can it be run from the command line?
> 
You can run LiveCode Server from the command line

> - is there a way to install ordinary LiveCode on a headless linux box? Or will the installer demand a GUI to complete?
> 

According to page 7 of the Livecode 9.6.2 Release Notes, it is possible to run the installer without a gui.
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_2/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_2_rc_2.pdf <https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_2/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_2_rc_2.pdf>

Excerpt...
> 
Command-line installation
It is possible to invoke the installer from the command-line on Linux and Windows. When doing command-line installation, no GUI will be displayed. The installation process is controlled by arguments passed to the installer.
Run the installer using a command in the form:

 <installer> install -ui [OPTION ...]

where <installer> should be replaced with the path of the installer executable or app (inside the DMG) that has been downloaded. The result of the installation operation will be written to the console.

The installer understands any of the following options:

-allusers
Install the IDE for "All Users". If not specified, LiveCode will be installed for the current user only.

- desktopshortcut
Place a shortcut on the Desktop (Windows-only)

-startmenu
 Place shortcuts in the Start Menu (Windows-only)

-location LOCATION
The folder to install into. If not specified, the LOCATION defaults to those described in the "Installation" section above.

-log LOGFILE
The file to which to log installation actions. If not specified, no log is generated.

Note: the command-line installer does not do any authentication. When installing for "All Users", you will need to run the installer command as an administrator.
As the installer is actually a GUI application, it needs to be run slightly differently from other command-line programs.
On Windows, the command is:
start /wait <installer> install -ui [OPTION ...]
<


Regards,
Matthias



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Feb  1 09:42:00 2021
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 14:42:00 +0000
Subject: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server
In-Reply-To: <EB568389-9EDF-4210-B1B2-DB7E1A2A002E@m-r-d.de>
References: <7b745671-e8f8-71cd-51b0-95f0964b97e2@cogapp.com>
 <0D57ABE2-BB58-4A77-AE47-F22AEDDBAC39@m-r-d.de>
 <107206d6-7cd5-c210-a5d0-8a8584001348@cogapp.com>
 <CDDC03FF-18C0-41D2-9B4D-2D58AB836A28@canelasoftware.com>
 <ca8e171d-63f1-b1d4-c5ba-85d9e6357216@cogapp.com>
 <EB568389-9EDF-4210-B1B2-DB7E1A2A002E@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <a2c4acc0-227e-8c47-f561-0e6901c4607e@cogapp.com>

Superb, thank you Matthias. Apologies not having RTFM'd properly myself.

Ben

On 01/02/2021 12:07, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> Am 01.02.2021 um 10:52 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>
>> Thanks Mark (and Matthias). That's very useful info which I'll stash for another time.
>>
>> In this case I really don't want to use the LC code over HTTP. It is purely a utility to run locally on this machine at scheduled intervals, in support of some other processes.
>>
>> For several reasons it would be more convenient to run it as a stack rather than just a script, though it would be possible to go the latter way.
>>
>> So two questions:
>>
>> - just to be clear, does LiveCode Server only work receiving requests from Apache/nginx/whatever? Or can it be run from the command line?
>>
> You can run LiveCode Server from the command line
> 
>> - is there a way to install ordinary LiveCode on a headless linux box? Or will the installer demand a GUI to complete?
>>
> 
> According to page 7 of the Livecode 9.6.2 Release Notes, it is possible to run the installer without a gui.
> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_2/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_2_rc_2.pdf <https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_2/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_2_rc_2.pdf>
> 
> Excerpt...
>>
> Command-line installation
> It is possible to invoke the installer from the command-line on Linux and Windows. When doing command-line installation, no GUI will be displayed. The installation process is controlled by arguments passed to the installer.
> Run the installer using a command in the form:
> 
>   <installer> install -ui [OPTION ...]
> 
> where <installer> should be replaced with the path of the installer executable or app (inside the DMG) that has been downloaded. The result of the installation operation will be written to the console.
> 
> The installer understands any of the following options:
> 
> -allusers
> Install the IDE for "All Users". If not specified, LiveCode will be installed for the current user only.
> 
> - desktopshortcut
> Place a shortcut on the Desktop (Windows-only)
> 
> -startmenu
>   Place shortcuts in the Start Menu (Windows-only)
> 
> -location LOCATION
> The folder to install into. If not specified, the LOCATION defaults to those described in the "Installation" section above.
> 
> -log LOGFILE
> The file to which to log installation actions. If not specified, no log is generated.
> 
> Note: the command-line installer does not do any authentication. When installing for "All Users", you will need to run the installer command as an administrator.
> As the installer is actually a GUI application, it needs to be run slightly differently from other command-line programs.
> On Windows, the command is:
> start /wait <installer> install -ui [OPTION ...]
> <
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Feb  1 11:58:42 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:58:42 +0000
Subject: Text field in Windows standalone not receiving keyboard focus
In-Reply-To: <AFFA7B60-A483-4AEB-BBE8-B57CDA0259D9@midwestcoastmedia.com>
References: <mailman.134.1611936790.241907.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <AFFA7B60-A483-4AEB-BBE8-B57CDA0259D9@midwestcoastmedia.com>
Message-ID: <024CB223-6B06-4177-82F7-2F38BFC9B66E@iotecdigital.com>

Ah. I should?ve thought of that. I tried years ago to create a kind of kiosk app that used a web browser thinking I could put transparent buttons over top of the browser object, but as soon as the browser object got focus, I could no longer click buttons. The first click worked then nothing worked.

Bob S


On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:28 PM, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

It turns out that this bug was actually another bug manifesting itself. There was a rogue browser widget (not visible) hiding in another group on the card gobbling up keystrokes on Windows platform. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19023 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19023>

What?s worse is that the same bug bit me in the ass a year ago too. Fool me once, shame on you.

-Andrew Bell


From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon Feb  1 12:28:00 2021
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 12:28:00 -0500
Subject: Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort starts this week -- How to Join -- Was: xAPI
 Cohort Resources & xAPI in LiveCode
In-Reply-To: <06EA04BF-312E-4BC9-A2D9-9B24580A611F@mac.com>
References: <A9A97E4E-4814-4518-BE9F-4B5806FB6E9D@rogers.com>
 <06EA04BF-312E-4BC9-A2D9-9B24580A611F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AE06F64B-BEC6-45C2-8E56-D75A447CED3E@rogers.com>

Hi to any LiveCode users interested in deploying their solutions in a training environment  

You may have wanted to make your app available to educators but they need something that will integrate with their Learning Management System (LMS) or store learning activities in their Learning Record Store (LRS)  using the Experience API (xAPI).  
A group of LiveCoders has formed that will be joining the Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort to learn more about those technologies and work together as a team to see how they could be implemented using LiveCode.

On the xAPI cohort website https://xapichort.com <https://xapichort.com/> it describes the cohort as follows:

"The xAPI Learning Cohort is a free, vendor-neutral, 12-week learning-by-doing project-based
team learning experience about the Experience API. ?

The Spring semester of xAPI cohort starts this week so we will have a pre meeting for LiveCoders and then there will be the initial session of the cohort.  See the details below.

LiveCoders Pre meeting
Tues Feb 2, 1:00 - 3:00  pm EST.
If you are interested and want to find out more or want to get involved we are having meeting for people interested on Tues Feb 2, 1:00 - 3:00  pm EST.  Respond to this thread if you want to attend and we will send you the Zoom link.

Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort 
Thursday Feb 4 2:00 pm to 3:00 pm.

The first session of the the cohort will happen on Thursday Feb 4, 2021 from 2:00 pm to 3:00 pm.  To attend and get access to the resources available sign up here: https://xapicohort.com/ <https://xapicohort.com/>.  
Also sign up to their Slack workspace https://xapi-cohort.slack.com/ <https://xapi-cohort.slack.com/> to get more information.  Once in the Slack Channel you can join the  #discuss-dev-livecode channel.

Martin Koob (sending this out on behalf of Brian Duck and the rest of the group)



From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Mon Feb  1 13:29:17 2021
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 10:29:17 -0800
Subject: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server
In-Reply-To: <ca8e171d-63f1-b1d4-c5ba-85d9e6357216@cogapp.com>
References: <7b745671-e8f8-71cd-51b0-95f0964b97e2@cogapp.com>
 <0D57ABE2-BB58-4A77-AE47-F22AEDDBAC39@m-r-d.de>
 <107206d6-7cd5-c210-a5d0-8a8584001348@cogapp.com>
 <CDDC03FF-18C0-41D2-9B4D-2D58AB836A28@canelasoftware.com>
 <ca8e171d-63f1-b1d4-c5ba-85d9e6357216@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <DCB0ACE4-EA7A-4388-9448-E9DD2E15A644@elloco.com>



> On Feb 1, 2021, at 1:52 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Mark (and Matthias). That's very useful info which I'll stash for another time.
> 
> In this case I really don't want to use the LC code over HTTP. It is purely a utility to run locally on this machine at scheduled intervals, in support of some other processes.
> 
> For several reasons it would be more convenient to run it as a stack rather than just a script, though it would be possible to go the latter way.

When I was running Kagi, we had a bunch of headless MacMini?s running HyperCard that processed various transactions. HyperCard would launch on machine startup and the stack would run through it?s cards, each with a separate thing it looked for to process.

One beautiful thing about this setup was that I would not code situations that I thought were unlikely to occur. I?d trap for them, but not code them. If that situation occurred, the stack would text me and halt into the debugger. I could log onto the machine, look at the variables, see what the situation was, and write code to handle it. 

1. Stack ran forever, cycling through cards.
2. Stack sent me a text when new code needed to be written.
3. Script was in the debugger allowing me to see why it halted.
4. I could alter the script immediately, test with the weird data, and then copy that stack to the other machines running the same stack.

I was unable to get LiveCode to mimic this functionality.

Basically I needed a stack to launch and run in the IDE and LiveCode didn?t have a way to do that. 

Kee Nethery


From bdrunrev at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 14:09:59 2021
From: bdrunrev at gmail.com (Bernard Devlin)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:09:59 +0000
Subject: Java FFI on Windows
Message-ID: <CA+O+R-GXaQsbj+OzzDghL2dG6yX3-i2V2vyZZkcSFUiTZpBxRQ@mail.gmail.com>

In the Extending Livecode part of the Dictionary it says:

*"Java bindings are currently supported on Android, Mac and Linux."*

I am at a loss to understand why Java extensions are supported on Mac and
Linux but *not* on Windows.

I've seen no explanation for this anywhere. Can someone enlighten me?  I'd
understand why Objective C extensions would not work on Windows, but Java?

Can extensions on Windows *only* be written in C?

Regards Bernard


From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Feb  1 14:15:00 2021
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 19:15:00 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
Message-ID: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>


With thanks to friends here who helped me install and start using LC on a 
headless Linux box. I've now another little problem... my stack tries and 
fails to connect to a MySQL database.

When it attempts to call revOpenDatabase, it throws error 219, "error in 
function handler". I take it that this means it can't find or hasn't loaded 
the revdb external.

I've installed livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64, and I launch it with
   ~/.runrev/components/livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64/LiveCode\ 
Community.x86_64 -ui <mystack.livecode>

I can see revdb.so and dbmysql.so are in the Externals directory. Is there 
something explicit I need to do to load these?

many thanks,

Ben



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon Feb  1 14:30:45 2021
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:30:45 -0800
Subject: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server
In-Reply-To: <DCB0ACE4-EA7A-4388-9448-E9DD2E15A644@elloco.com>
References: <7b745671-e8f8-71cd-51b0-95f0964b97e2@cogapp.com>
 <0D57ABE2-BB58-4A77-AE47-F22AEDDBAC39@m-r-d.de>
 <107206d6-7cd5-c210-a5d0-8a8584001348@cogapp.com>
 <CDDC03FF-18C0-41D2-9B4D-2D58AB836A28@canelasoftware.com>
 <ca8e171d-63f1-b1d4-c5ba-85d9e6357216@cogapp.com>
 <DCB0ACE4-EA7A-4388-9448-E9DD2E15A644@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <b882d32e-6df3-ccfd-f489-69ac5906648c@sonic.net>

On 2/1/21 10:29 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode wrote:

> Basically I needed a stack to launch and run in the IDE and LiveCode didn?t have a way to do that.

???

on preOpenStack
   choose pointer tool
   startMeUp
end preOpenStack

on startMeUp
   answer "I'm started"
end startMeUp

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon Feb  1 14:32:32 2021
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 21:32:32 +0200
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 253
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8a2ddUqOZieuiQ0WTBxvc_5joJ7hJRKD=YUVBPsJ+vEg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #253 here: http://bit.ly/3rp4BNx

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.



-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb  1 14:35:43 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 13:35:43 -0600
Subject: Terminal timeout?
Message-ID: <6f4f9ea2-af07-8048-89b3-87c1b0dfa7b2@hyperactivesw.com>

My AirLaunch app uses shell commands to create .ipa files for iOS. One customer is experiencing 
problems with a large app, which is about 250MB. This is due to thousands of short audio files 
that are included in the build. When she builds without the audio files it works fine.

She sent me a test copy and it built without any problem on my iMac. I suspect her Mac isn't up 
to the task and is taking too long to process all those 22,541(!) files. I couldn't find much 
info about Terminal timeouts but it looks like it's about 1-2 minutes. Does anyone have any 
ideas about how to get around this?

I've already suggested that she put the audio files on a server and download them when her app 
first starts up, but she'd prefer it if she could set the timeout period to a longer duration. 
She will need to add more audio files in the future...

I should mention that we think it's a timeout, but it might be something else. The error she 
gets is too generic to know -- it just says "an error occurred" and then stops. Might be a 
memory thing. If she builds on her MacBook instead it does work, but completes just seconds 
before our assumed timeout period. If she adds more files, it will probably fail there too.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon Feb  1 14:37:48 2021
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:37:48 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>

On 2/1/21 11:15 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> 
> With thanks to friends here who helped me install and start using LC on 
> a headless Linux box. I've now another little problem... my stack tries 
> and fails to connect to a MySQL database.
> 
> When it attempts to call revOpenDatabase, it throws error 219, "error in 
> function handler". I take it that this means it can't find or hasn't 
> loaded the revdb external.
> 
> I've installed livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64, and I launch it with
>  ? ~/.runrev/components/livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64/LiveCode\ 
> Community.x86_64 -ui <mystack.livecode>
> 
> I can see revdb.so and dbmysql.so are in the Externals directory. Is 
> there something explicit I need to do to load these?

"error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the 
engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server 
machine or on a different computer? Does this work locally before moving 
the stack to the headless linux box?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From benr at cogapp.com  Mon Feb  1 15:24:14 2021
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 20:24:14 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
 <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>

Hi Mark,

 > "error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the
 > engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server
 > machine or on a different computer?

I should point out that this error is thrown - I take it to mean that the 
function isn't even located. I don't think the problem is with the details of 
the database connection, I don't think it gets that far.

To test this, I've added a call to revOpenDatabases before doing anything else 
- sure enough, this throws the same error.

 > Does this work locally before moving the
 > stack to the headless linux box?

The whole shebang works on my Mac. I tried to see if I could run LiveCode 
headless on Mac, to minimise the differences that might be at issue, and got
	Startup error - cannot run in command line mode

I don't know if that's a generic issue that LiveCode can't run headless on 
Mac, or if there's something else going on there.

Ben


On 01/02/2021 19:37, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2/1/21 11:15 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>> With thanks to friends here who helped me install and start using LC on a 
>> headless Linux box. I've now another little problem... my stack tries and 
>> fails to connect to a MySQL database.
>>
>> When it attempts to call revOpenDatabase, it throws error 219, "error in 
>> function handler". I take it that this means it can't find or hasn't loaded 
>> the revdb external.
>>
>> I've installed livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64, and I launch it with
>> ?? ~/.runrev/components/livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64/LiveCode\ 
>> Community.x86_64 -ui <mystack.livecode>
>>
>> I can see revdb.so and dbmysql.so are in the Externals directory. Is there 
>> something explicit I need to do to load these?
> 
> "error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the 
> engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server 
> machine or on a different computer? Does this work locally before moving the 
> stack to the headless linux box?
> 



From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon Feb  1 15:29:55 2021
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 15:29:55 -0500
Subject: Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort starts this week -- How to Join -- Was: xAPI
 Cohort Resources & xAPI in LiveCode 
References: <B85BEF2E-DD58-4EB1-AD6E-D5A6683AD22D.ref@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <B85BEF2E-DD58-4EB1-AD6E-D5A6683AD22D@rogers.com>

Hi to any LiveCode users interested in deploying their solutions in a training environment  

You may have wanted to make your app available to educators but they need something that will integrate with their Learning Management System (LMS) or store learning activities in their Learning Record Store (LRS)  using the Experience API (xAPI).  
A group of LiveCoders has formed that will be joining the Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort to learn more about those technologies and work together as a team to see how they could be implemented using LiveCode.

On the xAPI cohort website https://xapichort.com <https://xapichort.com/> it describes the cohort as follows:

"The xAPI Learning Cohort is a free, vendor-neutral, 12-week learning-by-doing project-based
team learning experience about the Experience API. ?

The Spring semester of xAPI cohort starts this week so we will have a pre meeting for LiveCoders and then there will be the initial session of the cohort.  See the details below.

LiveCoders Pre meeting
Tues Feb 2, 1:00 - 3:00  pm EST.
If you are interested and want to find out more or want to get involved we are having meeting for people interested on Tues Feb 2, 1:00 - 3:00  pm EST.  Respond to this thread if you want to attend and we will send you the Zoom link.

Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort 
Thursday Feb 4 2:00 pm to 3:00 pm.

The first session of the the cohort will happen on Thursday Feb 4, 2021 from 2:00 pm to 3:00 pm.  To attend and get access to the resources available sign up here: https://xapicohort.com/ <https://xapicohort.com/>.  
Also sign up to their Slack workspace https://xapi-cohort.slack.com/ <https://xapi-cohort.slack.com/> to get more information.  Once in the Slack Channel you can join the  #discuss-dev-livecode channel.

Martin Koob (sending this out on behalf of Brian Duck and the rest of the group)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  1 15:52:07 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 12:52:07 -0800
Subject: Which of the current FTP legends should I be using?
In-Reply-To: <F2460018-6538-4AD9-8B24-EE351DF669DD@prestodigital.net>
References: <F2460018-6538-4AD9-8B24-EE351DF669DD@prestodigital.net>
Message-ID: <4dadaebc-8423-8944-7ce8-ff676f41e646@fourthworld.com>

PrestoBruce wrote:

 > I need to upload a binary file (jpg,pdf,png,etc) to an FTP account.

How will the resulting upload be used?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  1 16:01:20 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 13:01:20 -0800
Subject: open secure socket... using certificate
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJ6DPtpKDbOc_M9VvOQXxdt9bG8tDmDXSFWGXU4rGktcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJ6DPtpKDbOc_M9VvOQXxdt9bG8tDmDXSFWGXU4rGktcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <727e7f8d-5d2d-edf4-4bd4-43f716a91474@fourthworld.com>

Tom Glod wrote:

 > On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 1:09 AM Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >> The main benefit of encrypted sockets is to mitigate man-in-the-
 >> middle attacks.
 >>
 >> If you have a man in the middle of processes on a local computer that
 >> isn't you, it would seem you have bigger concerns. ;)
...
 > Hi Richard...the man in the middle attack is exactly the thing I was
 > thinking of.


It seems I didn't write clearly.

With localHost the man in the middle is you, or someone else with 
physical access to your computer (which is more or less the same thing).

Given the old adage that physical access  = root, I'm unable to think of 
a scenario in which encrypting localhost sockets is beneficial.  Am I 
overlooking something?  I'm no CISSP, so I may well be.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From benr at cogapp.com  Mon Feb  1 16:32:20 2021
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 21:32:20 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
 <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
 <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <479400c2-d914-08fb-26fd-ae1e06a0b467@cogapp.com>

Update. I have managed to get access to the Rev database external by 
explicitly setting the `externals` property of the stack before saving it (on 
Mac) to the full path on the linux machine to `revdb.so`.

Consequently the functions such as `revOpenDatabases` and `revOpenDatabase` no 
longer throw error 219. Hurrah. Indeed `externalCommands` and 
`externalFunctions` now list all the expected commands and functions of the 
database library.

This is obviously an appalling solution, since it relies on me knowing the 
exact path to the LiveCode bundle on the destination machine. (My recollection 
from a decade or so ago is that this property has to already be set at the 
time that the stack is opened, i.e. it can't be set dynamically. This may be 
erroneous.) However, it will get me going for now.

Now my issue is that when the code tries to open the database, 
`revOpenDatabase` returns "revdberr,invalid database type". That suggests that 
the drivers aren't found.

I've tried to get past this using `revSetDatabaseDriverPath`.

The documentation says
> Use the revSetDatabaseDriverPath command if you want to place the database
> drivers your application uses somewhere other than the same folder as the
> application.
In fact the drivers are in the standard location, so this shouldn't be needed, 
but hey... I started by reporting `revGetDatabaseDriverPath` - but calling 
that causes LiveCode to immediately exit on signal 11. (This was in a 
try-catch block, but that doesn't stop it crashing out.)

However, after using `revSetDatabaseDriverPath`, `revGetDatabaseDriverPath` no 
longer crashes but faithfully reports the value set.

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to help - although "set the defaultFolder to 
revGetDatabaseDriverPath()/put the files" does list the folder which includes 
dbmysql.so - revOpenDatabase still returns "revdberr,invalid database type".

Any suggestions gratefully received!

Ben


On 01/02/2021 20:24, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
>  > "error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the
>  > engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server
>  > machine or on a different computer?
> 
> I should point out that this error is thrown - I take it to mean that the 
> function isn't even located. I don't think the problem is with the details of 
> the database connection, I don't think it gets that far.
> 
> To test this, I've added a call to revOpenDatabases before doing anything else 
> - sure enough, this throws the same error.
> 
>  > Does this work locally before moving the
>  > stack to the headless linux box?
> 
> The whole shebang works on my Mac. I tried to see if I could run LiveCode 
> headless on Mac, to minimise the differences that might be at issue, and got
>  ????Startup error - cannot run in command line mode
> 
> I don't know if that's a generic issue that LiveCode can't run headless on 
> Mac, or if there's something else going on there.
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> On 01/02/2021 19:37, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 2/1/21 11:15 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>>
>>> With thanks to friends here who helped me install and start using LC on a 
>>> headless Linux box. I've now another little problem... my stack tries and 
>>> fails to connect to a MySQL database.
>>>
>>> When it attempts to call revOpenDatabase, it throws error 219, "error in 
>>> function handler". I take it that this means it can't find or hasn't loaded 
>>> the revdb external.
>>>
>>> I've installed livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64, and I launch it with
>>> ?? ~/.runrev/components/livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64/LiveCode\ 
>>> Community.x86_64 -ui <mystack.livecode>
>>>
>>> I can see revdb.so and dbmysql.so are in the Externals directory. Is there 
>>> something explicit I need to do to load these?
>>
>> "error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the 
>> engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server 
>> machine or on a different computer? Does this work locally before moving the 
>> stack to the headless linux box?
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Mon Feb  1 16:44:12 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:44:12 -0500
Subject: open secure socket... using certificate
In-Reply-To: <727e7f8d-5d2d-edf4-4bd4-43f716a91474@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJ6DPtpKDbOc_M9VvOQXxdt9bG8tDmDXSFWGXU4rGktcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <727e7f8d-5d2d-edf4-4bd4-43f716a91474@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKz_ooawMwRxKtJwE4crbZJKSe3dFv1FLN6xY7ZL2gF2A@mail.gmail.com>

Richard,

Lets say one of my users is targetted by a hacker and they manage to
install a malware process on their system that will capture all the data
flowing between the 2 processes.
Then they do not need to be sitting in the victim's chair.
But if the data was encrypted, this wouldn't matter.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 4:02 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Tom Glod wrote:
>
>  > On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 1:09 AM Richard Gaskin wrote:
>  >> The main benefit of encrypted sockets is to mitigate man-in-the-
>  >> middle attacks.
>  >>
>  >> If you have a man in the middle of processes on a local computer that
>  >> isn't you, it would seem you have bigger concerns. ;)
> ...
>  > Hi Richard...the man in the middle attack is exactly the thing I was
>  > thinking of.
>
>
> It seems I didn't write clearly.
>
> With localHost the man in the middle is you, or someone else with
> physical access to your computer (which is more or less the same thing).
>
> Given the old adage that physical access  = root, I'm unable to think of
> a scenario in which encrypting localhost sockets is beneficial.  Am I
> overlooking something?  I'm no CISSP, so I may well be.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From curry at pair.com  Mon Feb  1 16:44:25 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:44:25 -0500
Subject: Which of the current FTP legends should I be using?
In-Reply-To: <4dadaebc-8423-8944-7ce8-ff676f41e646@fourthworld.com>
References: <4dadaebc-8423-8944-7ce8-ff676f41e646@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <167e2f7e-b1d2-0f6f-e758-db1ce8fbaf9a@pair.com>


Me:

 >> Try tsNetUploadFile - fewer steps!

Bruce:

 > Thanks, much appreciated.

No problem. That's why I love, and preach, KISS!

(My father taught me "Keep It Simple (Stupid)" at an early age.
Probably around 7 years old. Military aircraft electrician.
They popularized this phrase - and they needed it most.) :)

By minimizing steps, it's easier to implement.
Also we maximize already-tested code. (Assuming it's good code.)
That minimizes the opportunity for mistakes, such as...

Matthias:

 > how did you fill the pData parameter? Did you use
 > put URL "binfile:..." into pData

Yep, good possibility!

Me again:

About existing code that people use as tsNet samples, I've noticed:
Some of the code is not well-organized for modularity and KISS.
(Basically, not well-organized, period.)

Maybe I or someone else here can post better samples when there's time.
That would get code sample consumers off to a better start.
"Keep It Simple" is a powerful coding philosophy that pays off....

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Mon Feb  1 16:48:03 2021
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 21:48:03 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <479400c2-d914-08fb-26fd-ae1e06a0b467@cogapp.com>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
 <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
 <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>
 <479400c2-d914-08fb-26fd-ae1e06a0b467@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <88ACB252-28B8-4565-AF25-713C0C4AAADF@byu.edu>

Ben,

I have seen the ?invalid database type? error on Linux because of a case error. Make sure you use ?mysql? as the database type, not ?MySQL? or anything else with upper case letters. LiveCode is not case-sensitive, but Linux is.

Hope this helps.

Devin

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Update. I have managed to get access to the Rev database external by explicitly setting the `externals` property of the stack before saving it (on Mac) to the full path on the linux machine to `revdb.so`.
> 
> Consequently the functions such as `revOpenDatabases` and `revOpenDatabase` no longer throw error 219. Hurrah. Indeed `externalCommands` and `externalFunctions` now list all the expected commands and functions of the database library.
> 
> This is obviously an appalling solution, since it relies on me knowing the exact path to the LiveCode bundle on the destination machine. (My recollection from a decade or so ago is that this property has to already be set at the time that the stack is opened, i.e. it can't be set dynamically. This may be erroneous.) However, it will get me going for now.
> 
> Now my issue is that when the code tries to open the database, `revOpenDatabase` returns "revdberr,invalid database type". That suggests that the drivers aren't found.
> 
> I've tried to get past this using `revSetDatabaseDriverPath`.
> 
> The documentation says
>> Use the revSetDatabaseDriverPath command if you want to place the database
>> drivers your application uses somewhere other than the same folder as the
>> application.
> In fact the drivers are in the standard location, so this shouldn't be needed, but hey... I started by reporting `revGetDatabaseDriverPath` - but calling that causes LiveCode to immediately exit on signal 11. (This was in a try-catch block, but that doesn't stop it crashing out.)
> 
> However, after using `revSetDatabaseDriverPath`, `revGetDatabaseDriverPath` no longer crashes but faithfully reports the value set.
> 
> Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to help - although "set the defaultFolder to revGetDatabaseDriverPath()/put the files" does list the folder which includes dbmysql.so - revOpenDatabase still returns "revdberr,invalid database type".
> 
> Any suggestions gratefully received!
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> On 01/02/2021 20:24, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>> > "error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the
>> > engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server
>> > machine or on a different computer?
>> I should point out that this error is thrown - I take it to mean that the function isn't even located. I don't think the problem is with the details of the database connection, I don't think it gets that far.
>> To test this, I've added a call to revOpenDatabases before doing anything else - sure enough, this throws the same error.
>> > Does this work locally before moving the
>> > stack to the headless linux box?
>> The whole shebang works on my Mac. I tried to see if I could run LiveCode headless on Mac, to minimise the differences that might be at issue, and got
>>     Startup error - cannot run in command line mode
>> I don't know if that's a generic issue that LiveCode can't run headless on Mac, or if there's something else going on there.
>> Ben
>> On 01/02/2021 19:37, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>>> On 2/1/21 11:15 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> With thanks to friends here who helped me install and start using LC on a headless Linux box. I've now another little problem... my stack tries and fails to connect to a MySQL database.
>>>> 
>>>> When it attempts to call revOpenDatabase, it throws error 219, "error in function handler". I take it that this means it can't find or hasn't loaded the revdb external.
>>>> 
>>>> I've installed livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64, and I launch it with
>>>>    ~/.runrev/components/livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64/LiveCode\ Community.x86_64 -ui <mystack.livecode>
>>>> 
>>>> I can see revdb.so and dbmysql.so are in the Externals directory. Is there something explicit I need to do to load these?
>>> 
>>> "error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server machine or on a different computer? Does this work locally before moving the stack to the headless linux box?
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From benr at cogapp.com  Mon Feb  1 17:25:17 2021
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 22:25:17 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <88ACB252-28B8-4565-AF25-713C0C4AAADF@byu.edu>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
 <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
 <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>
 <479400c2-d914-08fb-26fd-ae1e06a0b467@cogapp.com>
 <88ACB252-28B8-4565-AF25-713C0C4AAADF@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <c52e0ebb-8253-d76d-a58a-c41e3fe0b5ab@cogapp.com>

Devin, thank you - that was the last bit I needed.

So my complete stack now works. Hurrah! Thanks everyone who helped me.


Undesirable things found:

1. I've not found how to access externals (in this case the database library) 
without explicitly setting the 'externals' property of the stack to a 
(generally unreliably) full path before the stack is saved.

2. revGetDatabaseDriverPath crashes the app if invoked before using 
revSetDatabaseDriverPath

3. revSetDatabaseDriverPath is required even when the drivers are in the 
standard location inside the app 'bundle'.

I'll report (2) and (3) formally when I've done a bit more investigation. I'd 
still love to know what I'm doing wrong, in relation to (1).

thanks all,

Ben

On 01/02/2021 21:48, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote:
> Ben,
> 
> I have seen the ?invalid database type? error on Linux because of a case error. Make sure you use ?mysql? as the database type, not ?MySQL? or anything else with upper case letters. LiveCode is not case-sensitive, but Linux is.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Devin
> 
>> On Feb 1, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Update. I have managed to get access to the Rev database external by explicitly setting the `externals` property of the stack before saving it (on Mac) to the full path on the linux machine to `revdb.so`.
>>
>> Consequently the functions such as `revOpenDatabases` and `revOpenDatabase` no longer throw error 219. Hurrah. Indeed `externalCommands` and `externalFunctions` now list all the expected commands and functions of the database library.
>>
>> This is obviously an appalling solution, since it relies on me knowing the exact path to the LiveCode bundle on the destination machine. (My recollection from a decade or so ago is that this property has to already be set at the time that the stack is opened, i.e. it can't be set dynamically. This may be erroneous.) However, it will get me going for now.
>>
>> Now my issue is that when the code tries to open the database, `revOpenDatabase` returns "revdberr,invalid database type". That suggests that the drivers aren't found.
>>
>> I've tried to get past this using `revSetDatabaseDriverPath`.
>>
>> The documentation says
>>> Use the revSetDatabaseDriverPath command if you want to place the database
>>> drivers your application uses somewhere other than the same folder as the
>>> application.
>> In fact the drivers are in the standard location, so this shouldn't be needed, but hey... I started by reporting `revGetDatabaseDriverPath` - but calling that causes LiveCode to immediately exit on signal 11. (This was in a try-catch block, but that doesn't stop it crashing out.)
>>
>> However, after using `revSetDatabaseDriverPath`, `revGetDatabaseDriverPath` no longer crashes but faithfully reports the value set.
>>
>> Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to help - although "set the defaultFolder to revGetDatabaseDriverPath()/put the files" does list the folder which includes dbmysql.so - revOpenDatabase still returns "revdberr,invalid database type".
>>
>> Any suggestions gratefully received!
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> On 01/02/2021 20:24, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>> "error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the
>>>> engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server
>>>> machine or on a different computer?
>>> I should point out that this error is thrown - I take it to mean that the function isn't even located. I don't think the problem is with the details of the database connection, I don't think it gets that far.
>>> To test this, I've added a call to revOpenDatabases before doing anything else - sure enough, this throws the same error.
>>>> Does this work locally before moving the
>>>> stack to the headless linux box?
>>> The whole shebang works on my Mac. I tried to see if I could run LiveCode headless on Mac, to minimise the differences that might be at issue, and got
>>>      Startup error - cannot run in command line mode
>>> I don't know if that's a generic issue that LiveCode can't run headless on Mac, or if there's something else going on there.
>>> Ben
>>> On 01/02/2021 19:37, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> On 2/1/21 11:15 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> With thanks to friends here who helped me install and start using LC on a headless Linux box. I've now another little problem... my stack tries and fails to connect to a MySQL database.
>>>>>
>>>>> When it attempts to call revOpenDatabase, it throws error 219, "error in function handler". I take it that this means it can't find or hasn't loaded the revdb external.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've installed livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64, and I launch it with
>>>>>     ~/.runrev/components/livecodecommunity-9.6.1.x86_64/LiveCode\ Community.x86_64 -ui <mystack.livecode>
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see revdb.so and dbmysql.so are in the Externals directory. Is there something explicit I need to do to load these?
>>>>
>>>> "error in function handler" is a pretty generic response - sort of the engine's version of ?\_(?)_/?. Is the MySQL database local to the server machine or on a different computer? Does this work locally before moving the stack to the headless linux box?
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  1 18:15:41 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 15:15:41 -0800
Subject: open secure socket... using certificate
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKz_ooawMwRxKtJwE4crbZJKSe3dFv1FLN6xY7ZL2gF2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLKz_ooawMwRxKtJwE4crbZJKSe3dFv1FLN6xY7ZL2gF2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a8c9340a-2ea8-e1c6-1ab6-a29fe6b76e2a@fourthworld.com>

Tom Glod wrote:

 > Richard,
 >
 > Lets say one of my users is targeted by a hacker and they manage
 > to install a malware process on their system that will capture all
 > the data flowing between the 2 processes.
 > Then they do not need to be sitting in the victim's chair.
 > But if the data was encrypted, this wouldn't matter.

True, that one aspect of your program wouldn't matter.  But since 
everything else on the system is now hosed, does anything matter?

To my ear it sounds like a planning committee meeting for a zoo in which 
they're deciding on the steel thickness of armored suits they require 
visitors to wear because tigers are running loose, while the whole 
facility is on fire. I'm in the back of the room raising my hand asking 
if we might just put the tigers back in the cage. After we put out the 
fire. :)

In the scenario you described, what prevents the bad guy from reading 
the data at rest? Or keylogging? Or replacing either or both of the 
executables you delivered? Or anything else they might do once they have 
that level of control throughout the system?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From dfepstein at comcast.net  Mon Feb  1 18:53:25 2021
From: dfepstein at comcast.net (David Epstein)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 18:53:25 -0500
Subject: Smooth scrolling
Message-ID: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>

My impression is that a LiveCode field scrolls less smoothly than a comparable field in some other programs, such as MS Word and Scrivener.  If I paste about 25,000 words into a word wrapped scrolling field, and then drag the scrolling thumb up and down there is much more jumpiness than I see when I do the same thing to the same text in those other programs.  (LC 9.6 on Mac OS 10.12.6).  Do others see the same thing?  Does anyone know the underlying cause of this, or a remedy?

David Epstein


From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Mon Feb  1 19:39:27 2021
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:39:27 -0800
Subject: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server
In-Reply-To: <b882d32e-6df3-ccfd-f489-69ac5906648c@sonic.net>
References: <7b745671-e8f8-71cd-51b0-95f0964b97e2@cogapp.com>
 <0D57ABE2-BB58-4A77-AE47-F22AEDDBAC39@m-r-d.de>
 <107206d6-7cd5-c210-a5d0-8a8584001348@cogapp.com>
 <CDDC03FF-18C0-41D2-9B4D-2D58AB836A28@canelasoftware.com>
 <ca8e171d-63f1-b1d4-c5ba-85d9e6357216@cogapp.com>
 <DCB0ACE4-EA7A-4388-9448-E9DD2E15A644@elloco.com>
 <b882d32e-6df3-ccfd-f489-69ac5906648c@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <18EAF8A1-973F-4030-AB4E-2C8EB8E559EB@elloco.com>

Mark, Thanks!

Here?s the script I created based upon your example. This is a stack with one card and on the card is a field ?counter?. I put ?0? into the field to seed it.

When the stack file is opened, it launches LiveCode and does the preOpenStack and the send in seconds causes the stack to display. The field counter starts incrementing.

And to get it to stop, hold down the option key and processing halts.

Damn, wish I had known about this years ago. Thanks,
Kee


on preOpenStack
	choose browse tool
	send idleDoit to this stack in 1 second
end preOpenStack

on idleDoit
	put field "counter" + 1 into field ?counter"
	if the optionKey is up then
		send idleDoit to this stack in 1 second
	end if
end idleDoit



> On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:30 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2/1/21 10:29 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> Basically I needed a stack to launch and run in the IDE and LiveCode didn?t have a way to do that.
> 
> ???
> 
> on preOpenStack
>  choose pointer tool
>  startMeUp
> end preOpenStack
> 
> on startMeUp
>  answer "I'm started"
> end startMeUp
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From curry at pair.com  Mon Feb  1 19:51:18 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:51:18 -0500
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
References: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2ab93a7f-1ed9-fe9d-180e-f610473c7dbe@pair.com>


David:

 > My impression is that a LiveCode field scrolls less smoothly
 > than a comparable field in some other programs

Fair impression. :)

 > 25,000 words into a word wrapped scrolling field

Performance does degrade as text size increases.
(Exponentially, after a certain point.)

 > Does anyone know the underlying cause of this,

For fun, try the same text in LC 5.5 or 4.6!
I would expect snappier results.

Performance took a huge hit with LC 7 and 8.
There was (and is) a myth that this is completely due to Unicode.
But in a series of videos and published tests, I proved otherwise.
Many other areas were impacted. So beware of that myth!

So Unicode (and the way it was implemented) played a part,
but it's not the only culprit. This is an ongoing saga.
To their credit, the LC team has made good optimizations in a few areas!
Mark was quite responsive to the "need for speed."
On the flip side, overall LC performance remains ... underwhelming.

 > or a remedy?

It helps to optimize your own code/UI/setup as much as you can:

Most LC user code is poorly organized and wastes tons of CPU time.
Many times people also have extravagant or sloppy UI.
And their problem-solving setup is not focused; lots of extra crap.
Tightening up all these can help a LOT! You'll see results.

Bonus good news: Standalone will run a little smoother than IDE.
(IDE is a bit on the bloatware side.)
Optimize all you can, and your build may be blessed a bit extra! :)

Beyond that, the ultimate solution is join the effort.
Make a useful test stack, maybe a video to demo results.
Design the test code well. Post a bug report.

I'm still involved in this campaign, but currently "mute" -
post-COVID, breathing got worse; can't talk in video or on phone.
But I'm adjusting to that - I'll be using sound effects, TTS, whatever.
So hopefully this year I'll get another test and video posted.

I encourage others (and yourself) to do the same!
I believe LC can be quite a bit faster.
So far, I've been proven correct....

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon Feb  1 19:55:35 2021
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:55:35 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <c52e0ebb-8253-d76d-a58a-c41e3fe0b5ab@cogapp.com>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
 <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
 <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>
 <479400c2-d914-08fb-26fd-ae1e06a0b467@cogapp.com>
 <88ACB252-28B8-4565-AF25-713C0C4AAADF@byu.edu>
 <c52e0ebb-8253-d76d-a58a-c41e3fe0b5ab@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <8e2859a0-e1cd-9cf7-8d4c-33381d742ae6@sonic.net>

On 2/1/21 2:25 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:

> 1. I've not found how to access externals (in this case the database 
> library) without explicitly setting the 'externals' property of the 
> stack to a (generally unreliably) full path before the stack is saved.

If you type in the messagebox

put the externals of stack "Home"

you should see everything there. If not, your system is misconfigured.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  1 22:10:40 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:10:40 -0800
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
References: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <471cb8d5-d560-954e-6a6e-eb364c262794@fourthworld.com>

David Epstein wrote:

 > My impression is that a LiveCode field scrolls less smoothly than
 > a comparable field in some other programs, such as MS Word and
 > Scrivener.  If I paste about 25,000 words into a word wrapped
 > scrolling field, and then drag the scrolling thumb up and down
 > there is much more jumpiness than I see when I do the same thing
 > to the same text in those other programs.  (LC 9.6 on Mac OS 10.12.6).
 >  Do others see the same thing?  Does anyone know the underlying cause
 > of this, or a remedy?

Nice to hear the name Scrivener. Blount did some good rethinking of how 
words are managed when he came up with that app.

In the olden days I remember being impressed with how smoothly LC 
scrolled vs things like Word, which wasn't all that surprising given 
that LC buffers the whole field in RAM while Word pages from disk.

A lot's changed since then. Not only have SSDs taken over to narrow the 
gap, but I no longer have a copy of Word to compare anything to. :)

But I did just do a quick test of LC v9.6.2rc2 vs LibreOffice Write on 
Ubuntu 18.04, using Kafka's Metamorphosis to get a reasonably close 
number of words to your test (Gutenberg Project RTF is 25,180 words: 
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/5200/5200-r.rtf ).

Very different setup of course, but FWIW LC and LibreOffice are quite 
close in scrolling, though LC seems noticeably smoother.

Of course Ubuntu and macOS couldn't be more different from top to 
bottom, with different font managers, buffering APIs, compositors, etc., 
so while it was easy for me to do this quick test it's almost entirely 
useless.

What might be nice would be someone with good knowledge of Apple 
low-level tools, similar to the ones we see for Android or to some 
degree strace, where graphical UI stuff can be profiled so we can see 
what Word and LC are doing differently.

It might also be worth setting the field's layerMode to "scrolling" and 
the stack's compositorType to "CoreGraphics" to see if that improves things.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From bogdanoff at me.com  Tue Feb  2 02:59:09 2021
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 23:59:09 -0800
Subject: Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort starts this week -- How to Join -- Was:
 xAPI Cohort Resources & xAPI in LiveCode
In-Reply-To: <B85BEF2E-DD58-4EB1-AD6E-D5A6683AD22D@rogers.com>
References: <B85BEF2E-DD58-4EB1-AD6E-D5A6683AD22D.ref@rogers.com>
 <B85BEF2E-DD58-4EB1-AD6E-D5A6683AD22D@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <F6E75607-CBB4-439C-9800-B5409DAF46FD@me.com>

Hi Martin, I?ll be traveling part of the time, but I?ll attend.

Peter

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi to any LiveCode users interested in deploying their solutions in a training environment  
> 
> You may have wanted to make your app available to educators but they need something that will integrate with their Learning Management System (LMS) or store learning activities in their Learning Record Store (LRS)  using the Experience API (xAPI).  
> A group of LiveCoders has formed that will be joining the Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort to learn more about those technologies and work together as a team to see how they could be implemented using LiveCode.
> 
> On the xAPI cohort website https://xapichort.com <https://xapichort.com/> it describes the cohort as follows:
> 
> "The xAPI Learning Cohort is a free, vendor-neutral, 12-week learning-by-doing project-based
> team learning experience about the Experience API. ?
> 
> The Spring semester of xAPI cohort starts this week so we will have a pre meeting for LiveCoders and then there will be the initial session of the cohort.  See the details below.
> 
> LiveCoders Pre meeting
> Tues Feb 2, 1:00 - 3:00  pm EST.
> If you are interested and want to find out more or want to get involved we are having meeting for people interested on Tues Feb 2, 1:00 - 3:00  pm EST.  Respond to this thread if you want to attend and we will send you the Zoom link.
> 
> Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort 
> Thursday Feb 4 2:00 pm to 3:00 pm.
> 
> The first session of the the cohort will happen on Thursday Feb 4, 2021 from 2:00 pm to 3:00 pm.  To attend and get access to the resources available sign up here: https://xapicohort.com/ <https://xapicohort.com/>.  
> Also sign up to their Slack workspace https://xapi-cohort.slack.com/ <https://xapi-cohort.slack.com/> to get more information.  Once in the Slack Channel you can join the  #discuss-dev-livecode channel.
> 
> Martin Koob (sending this out on behalf of Brian Duck and the rest of the group)
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark at livecode.com  Tue Feb  2 04:03:57 2021
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 09:03:57 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <c52e0ebb-8253-d76d-a58a-c41e3fe0b5ab@cogapp.com>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
 <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
 <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>
 <479400c2-d914-08fb-26fd-ae1e06a0b467@cogapp.com>
 <88ACB252-28B8-4565-AF25-713C0C4AAADF@byu.edu>
 <c52e0ebb-8253-d76d-a58a-c41e3fe0b5ab@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <ddda93aeb9cf9e23e36ccad950d83853@livecode.com>

On 2021-02-01 22:25, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> Undesirable things found:
> 
> 1. I've not found how to access externals (in this case the database
> library) without explicitly setting the 'externals' property of the
> stack to a (generally unreliably) full path before the stack is saved.
> 
> 3. revSetDatabaseDriverPath is required even when the drivers are in
> the standard location inside the app 'bundle'.
> 
> I'll report (2) and (3) formally when I've done a bit more
> investigation. I'd still love to know what I'm doing wrong, in
> relation to (1).

Please don't - as neither are bugs :)

The standalone engine inside the runtime folders in the IDE install is 
just a bare engine.

In community you can certainly run the bare engine without building a 
standalone but as you have discovered it is just what it is - a bare 
engine, it knows nothing of externals, database drivers, widgets, script 
libraries or anything else.

If you want a headless (community) engine which has dependencies then 
all you have to do is deploy a standalone with a launcher stack embedded 
into it.

The launcher stack should have the inclusions you want configured for 
it, and it can just run the stack you pass as an argument on the 
command-line.

Doing it this way, it means the standalone builder will take care to 
ensure all the 'inclusions' you set are present and configured correctly 
(including widgets, externals and script libraries).

You only need to rebuild the standalone if your inclusion requirements 
change, or you want to change engine version.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

P.S. In regards to (1) the trick is to do this:
```
set the externals of the templateStack to <external files list>
create invisible stack "Externals" -- or any name you like
inser the script of it into back
reset the templateStack
```
This allows you to compute the external paths at runtime when the engine 
starts (e.g. by using the engine folder, or the filename of the stack 
and computing the paths).

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Feb  2 04:43:45 2021
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 09:43:45 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <8e2859a0-e1cd-9cf7-8d4c-33381d742ae6@sonic.net>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
 <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
 <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>
 <479400c2-d914-08fb-26fd-ae1e06a0b467@cogapp.com>
 <88ACB252-28B8-4565-AF25-713C0C4AAADF@byu.edu>
 <c52e0ebb-8253-d76d-a58a-c41e3fe0b5ab@cogapp.com>
 <8e2859a0-e1cd-9cf7-8d4c-33381d742ae6@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <fd10a363-b2cd-273a-323b-3af4cfab7058@cogapp.com>

Thanks Mark. The issue here is that the stack was running headless, not in the 
IDE. But I had it write the externals to stdout and indeed the result was 
empty, so then I resaved it with the embedded property... etc. But this is 
moot given other-Mark's message.

cheers,

Ben

On 02/02/2021 00:55, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2/1/21 2:25 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> 1. I've not found how to access externals (in this case the database 
>> library) without explicitly setting the 'externals' property of the stack to 
>> a (generally unreliably) full path before the stack is saved.
> 
> If you type in the messagebox
> 
> put the externals of stack "Home"
> 
> you should see everything there. If not, your system is misconfigured.
> 



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Feb  2 04:48:52 2021
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 09:48:52 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <ddda93aeb9cf9e23e36ccad950d83853@livecode.com>
References: <d6f5c4f4-be00-ce15-9ccd-63015510ebab@cogapp.com>
 <3cbe76c6-1c3d-d57b-34c4-575911d25b28@sonic.net>
 <0f9d7d95-83d1-d64d-3dba-b1f79f9be248@cogapp.com>
 <479400c2-d914-08fb-26fd-ae1e06a0b467@cogapp.com>
 <88ACB252-28B8-4565-AF25-713C0C4AAADF@byu.edu>
 <c52e0ebb-8253-d76d-a58a-c41e3fe0b5ab@cogapp.com>
 <ddda93aeb9cf9e23e36ccad950d83853@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1f2f5034-9fd4-3bac-bd4a-9909054fac9f@cogapp.com>


Hi Mark,

On 02/02/2021 09:03, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'll report (2) and (3) formally when I've done a bit more
>> investigation. I'd still love to know what I'm doing wrong, in
>> relation to (1).
> 
> Please don't - as neither are bugs :)

The "investigation" I referred to was putting this message on the mailing list 
and waiting to be corrected! Investigation complete.

And more generally -
> If you want a headless (community) engine which has dependencies then all
> you have to do is deploy a standalone with a launcher stack embedded into
> it.
  - thank you. A very long time ago I think I knew this, and indeed used to 
send colleagues to Ken Ray's page where he made some handy standalones 
available. I'll take your advice.

best regards,

Ben



From lheaford at icloud.com  Tue Feb  2 06:31:47 2021
From: lheaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 11:31:47 +0000
Subject: Browser Widget
Message-ID: <0D02CD81-C677-4D46-874B-AB32B16830EA@icloud.com>

I believe the Browser Widget uses the native browser and in that case it uses the same code as Safari on MacOS?

I have been using CanvasJS to create some charts and have been rendering the result in the Browser Widget using Set the URL of ?..

These charts have been created on the computer and not via the internet.

Generally they render well except for the animation of the chart.

In Safari it's as smooth as silk.

In the Browser Widget there is some slight stutter that does slightly affect the user experience.

Does anyone know why this stutter exists with the Browser Widget and not with Safari and is there a solution?


Thanks

Terry





From craig at starfirelighting.com  Tue Feb  2 09:16:24 2021
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig newman)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 09:16:24 -0500
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <471cb8d5-d560-954e-6a6e-eb364c262794@fourthworld.com>
References: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
 <471cb8d5-d560-954e-6a6e-eb364c262794@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <003b01d6f96d$fd7a98f0$f86fcad0$@starfirelighting.com>

On a Mac, I made a field with 25000 words or so. Certainly dragging the
thumb is jerky.

But dragging the thumb forces the field's scroll  to track the thumbPos, as
it relates to the number of lines and the total "pixel" travel available to
that thumb. I don't see how a field could scroll smoothly at all, since the
thumb and the scroll are locked together.

In other words, how can it "glide" from one line (scroll position) to
another, since the thumbPos has a finite number of possible locations, and
if there are a LOT of lines, each location may be several lines away?

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 10:11 PM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
Subject: Re: Smooth scrolling

David Epstein wrote:

 > My impression is that a LiveCode field scrolls less smoothly than  > a
comparable field in some other programs, such as MS Word and  > Scrivener.
If I paste about 25,000 words into a word wrapped  > scrolling field, and
then drag the scrolling thumb up and down  > there is much more jumpiness
than I see when I do the same thing  > to the same text in those other
programs.  (LC 9.6 on Mac OS 10.12.6).
 >  Do others see the same thing?  Does anyone know the underlying cause  >
of this, or a remedy?

Nice to hear the name Scrivener. Blount did some good rethinking of how
words are managed when he came up with that app.

In the olden days I remember being impressed with how smoothly LC scrolled
vs things like Word, which wasn't all that surprising given that LC buffers
the whole field in RAM while Word pages from disk.

A lot's changed since then. Not only have SSDs taken over to narrow the gap,
but I no longer have a copy of Word to compare anything to. :)

But I did just do a quick test of LC v9.6.2rc2 vs LibreOffice Write on
Ubuntu 18.04, using Kafka's Metamorphosis to get a reasonably close number
of words to your test (Gutenberg Project RTF is 25,180 words: 
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/5200/5200-r.rtf ).

Very different setup of course, but FWIW LC and LibreOffice are quite close
in scrolling, though LC seems noticeably smoother.

Of course Ubuntu and macOS couldn't be more different from top to bottom,
with different font managers, buffering APIs, compositors, etc., so while it
was easy for me to do this quick test it's almost entirely useless.

What might be nice would be someone with good knowledge of Apple low-level
tools, similar to the ones we see for Android or to some degree strace,
where graphical UI stuff can be profiled so we can see what Word and LC are
doing differently.

It might also be worth setting the field's layerMode to "scrolling" and the
stack's compositorType to "CoreGraphics" to see if that improves things.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 09:54:19 2021
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:54:19 +0200
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <003b01d6f96d$fd7a98f0$f86fcad0$@starfirelighting.com>
References: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
 <471cb8d5-d560-954e-6a6e-eb364c262794@fourthworld.com>
 <003b01d6f96d$fd7a98f0$f86fcad0$@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_HnDsmYqu3pnta6chMvJuXDGv68K_N3RhQHCeBSvLHhA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello folks,

This bug report contains a workaround for smooth scrolling - hope it helps.

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19759

Cheers,
Panos
--

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:17, Craig newman via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On a Mac, I made a field with 25000 words or so. Certainly dragging the
> thumb is jerky.
>
> But dragging the thumb forces the field's scroll  to track the thumbPos, as
> it relates to the number of lines and the total "pixel" travel available to
> that thumb. I don't see how a field could scroll smoothly at all, since the
> thumb and the scroll are locked together.
>
> In other words, how can it "glide" from one line (scroll position) to
> another, since the thumbPos has a finite number of possible locations, and
> if there are a LOT of lines, each location may be several lines away?
>
> Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 10:11 PM
> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Cc: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Subject: Re: Smooth scrolling
>
> David Epstein wrote:
>
>  > My impression is that a LiveCode field scrolls less smoothly than  > a
> comparable field in some other programs, such as MS Word and  > Scrivener.
> If I paste about 25,000 words into a word wrapped  > scrolling field, and
> then drag the scrolling thumb up and down  > there is much more jumpiness
> than I see when I do the same thing  > to the same text in those other
> programs.  (LC 9.6 on Mac OS 10.12.6).
>  >  Do others see the same thing?  Does anyone know the underlying cause  >
> of this, or a remedy?
>
> Nice to hear the name Scrivener. Blount did some good rethinking of how
> words are managed when he came up with that app.
>
> In the olden days I remember being impressed with how smoothly LC scrolled
> vs things like Word, which wasn't all that surprising given that LC buffers
> the whole field in RAM while Word pages from disk.
>
> A lot's changed since then. Not only have SSDs taken over to narrow the
> gap,
> but I no longer have a copy of Word to compare anything to. :)
>
> But I did just do a quick test of LC v9.6.2rc2 vs LibreOffice Write on
> Ubuntu 18.04, using Kafka's Metamorphosis to get a reasonably close number
> of words to your test (Gutenberg Project RTF is 25,180 words:
> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/5200/5200-r.rtf ).
>
> Very different setup of course, but FWIW LC and LibreOffice are quite close
> in scrolling, though LC seems noticeably smoother.
>
> Of course Ubuntu and macOS couldn't be more different from top to bottom,
> with different font managers, buffering APIs, compositors, etc., so while
> it
> was easy for me to do this quick test it's almost entirely useless.
>
> What might be nice would be someone with good knowledge of Apple low-level
> tools, similar to the ones we see for Android or to some degree strace,
> where graphical UI stuff can be profiled so we can see what Word and LC are
> doing differently.
>
> It might also be worth setting the field's layerMode to "scrolling" and the
> stack's compositorType to "CoreGraphics" to see if that improves things.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From jbv at souslelogo.com  Tue Feb  2 10:15:24 2021
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 10:15:24 -0500
Subject: numberformat, trunc and round
Message-ID: <6261b0e6bb4b5d1014aaf3432d917a99@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

This might sound like a dumb question, but I'm scratching my head trying
to find a workaround.
I have this portion of script :
   set numberformat to "#.0000000"
   if myvar = trunc(myvar) then
     get myarray[myvar]
   end if

The problem seems to be that when numberformat is set, both trunc() and 
round()
keep the fractional part of myvar (2.000000); and since the indexes of 
myarray
are integers (1,2,3,etc), "get myarray[myvar]" always returns empty...
And I need to set numberformat to "#.0000000", because there are some 
rather
complex computations processed with the values in myarray inside a main 
loop.
And for various other reasons I can't use indexes with fractional part 
in the
array.
Of course, I could use :
   set numberformat to "#.0000000"
   set itemdelimiter to "."
   if myvar = trunc(myvar) then
     get myarray[item 1 of myvar]
   end if
But that's not very elegant and slows down the script a bit...
Any help would be much appreciated.

Best,
jbv



From marksmithhfx at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 11:26:14 2021
From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:26:14 +0000
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_HnDsmYqu3pnta6chMvJuXDGv68K_N3RhQHCeBSvLHhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
 <471cb8d5-d560-954e-6a6e-eb364c262794@fourthworld.com>
 <003b01d6f96d$fd7a98f0$f86fcad0$@starfirelighting.com>
 <CA+JfEq_HnDsmYqu3pnta6chMvJuXDGv68K_N3RhQHCeBSvLHhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F78F0E35-D029-4AC8-90B1-C4EB8B4CF03E@gmail.com>

Very nice. Thanks Panos

> On Feb 2, 2021, at 2:54 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello folks,
> 
> This bug report contains a workaround for smooth scrolling - hope it helps.
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19759
> 
> Cheers,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:17, Craig newman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On a Mac, I made a field with 25000 words or so. Certainly dragging the
>> thumb is jerky.
>> 
>> But dragging the thumb forces the field's scroll  to track the thumbPos, as
>> it relates to the number of lines and the total "pixel" travel available to
>> that thumb. I don't see how a field could scroll smoothly at all, since the
>> thumb and the scroll are locked together.
>> 
>> In other words, how can it "glide" from one line (scroll position) to
>> another, since the thumbPos has a finite number of possible locations, and
>> if there are a LOT of lines, each location may be several lines away?
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 10:11 PM
>> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Cc: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>> Subject: Re: Smooth scrolling
>> 
>> David Epstein wrote:
>> 
>>> My impression is that a LiveCode field scrolls less smoothly than  > a
>> comparable field in some other programs, such as MS Word and  > Scrivener.
>> If I paste about 25,000 words into a word wrapped  > scrolling field, and
>> then drag the scrolling thumb up and down  > there is much more jumpiness
>> than I see when I do the same thing  > to the same text in those other
>> programs.  (LC 9.6 on Mac OS 10.12.6).
>>> Do others see the same thing?  Does anyone know the underlying cause  >
>> of this, or a remedy?
>> 
>> Nice to hear the name Scrivener. Blount did some good rethinking of how
>> words are managed when he came up with that app.
>> 
>> In the olden days I remember being impressed with how smoothly LC scrolled
>> vs things like Word, which wasn't all that surprising given that LC buffers
>> the whole field in RAM while Word pages from disk.
>> 
>> A lot's changed since then. Not only have SSDs taken over to narrow the
>> gap,
>> but I no longer have a copy of Word to compare anything to. :)
>> 
>> But I did just do a quick test of LC v9.6.2rc2 vs LibreOffice Write on
>> Ubuntu 18.04, using Kafka's Metamorphosis to get a reasonably close number
>> of words to your test (Gutenberg Project RTF is 25,180 words:
>> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/5200/5200-r.rtf ).
>> 
>> Very different setup of course, but FWIW LC and LibreOffice are quite close
>> in scrolling, though LC seems noticeably smoother.
>> 
>> Of course Ubuntu and macOS couldn't be more different from top to bottom,
>> with different font managers, buffering APIs, compositors, etc., so while
>> it
>> was easy for me to do this quick test it's almost entirely useless.
>> 
>> What might be nice would be someone with good knowledge of Apple low-level
>> tools, similar to the ones we see for Android or to some degree strace,
>> where graphical UI stuff can be profiled so we can see what Word and LC are
>> doing differently.
>> 
>> It might also be worth setting the field's layerMode to "scrolling" and the
>> stack's compositorType to "CoreGraphics" to see if that improves things.
>> 
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Systems
>>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>  ____________________________________________________________________
>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Tue Feb  2 11:33:20 2021
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:33:20 -0800
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <471cb8d5-d560-954e-6a6e-eb364c262794@fourthworld.com>
References: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
 <471cb8d5-d560-954e-6a6e-eb364c262794@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5e1806d2-c6de-97e4-0eb1-e07a4ef9e8c2@sonic.net>

On 2/1/21 7:10 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

> using Kafka's Metamorphosis...

...then you should expect bugs.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From curry at pair.com  Tue Feb  2 12:01:58 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:01:58 -0500
Subject: numberformat, trunc and round
In-Reply-To: <6261b0e6bb4b5d1014aaf3432d917a99@souslelogo.com>
References: <6261b0e6bb4b5d1014aaf3432d917a99@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <7f6348f8-baff-4c94-6481-8964890425ac@pair.com>


jbv:

 > if myvar = trunc(myvar) then

Different approach: I prefer "mod" for loop breakouts/pitstops.
Very clean way to determine action for certain loop iterations!
Useful for fractional values too, in LC versions thus far.

 > set numberformat to "#.0000000"

You can easily set the numberformat twice, if necessary, in the loop.
And/or take control over whether your comparison is text or binary.
(The numberformat gets involved when converting binary to text.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  2 13:58:52 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:58:52 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <ddda93aeb9cf9e23e36ccad950d83853@livecode.com>
References: <ddda93aeb9cf9e23e36ccad950d83853@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <b6161f2a-c245-e780-8ffe-206f92f2a86c@fourthworld.com>

LC Server doesn't handle externals, so for that we need a standalone?

I think I'm missing something.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2021-02-01 22:25, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>> Undesirable things found:
>> 
>> 1. I've not found how to access externals (in this case the database
>> library) without explicitly setting the 'externals' property of the
>> stack to a (generally unreliably) full path before the stack is saved.
>> 
>> 3. revSetDatabaseDriverPath is required even when the drivers are in
>> the standard location inside the app 'bundle'.
>> 
>> I'll report (2) and (3) formally when I've done a bit more
>> investigation. I'd still love to know what I'm doing wrong, in
>> relation to (1).
> 
> Please don't - as neither are bugs :)
> 
> The standalone engine inside the runtime folders in the IDE install is 
> just a bare engine.
> 
> In community you can certainly run the bare engine without building a 
> standalone but as you have discovered it is just what it is - a bare 
> engine, it knows nothing of externals, database drivers, widgets, script 
> libraries or anything else.
> 
> If you want a headless (community) engine which has dependencies then 
> all you have to do is deploy a standalone with a launcher stack embedded 
> into it.
> 
> The launcher stack should have the inclusions you want configured for 
> it, and it can just run the stack you pass as an argument on the 
> command-line.
> 
> Doing it this way, it means the standalone builder will take care to 
> ensure all the 'inclusions' you set are present and configured correctly 
> (including widgets, externals and script libraries).
> 
> You only need to rebuild the standalone if your inclusion requirements 
> change, or you want to change engine version.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> P.S. In regards to (1) the trick is to do this:
> ```
> set the externals of the templateStack to <external files list>
> create invisible stack "Externals" -- or any name you like
> inser the script of it into back
> reset the templateStack
> ```
> This allows you to compute the external paths at runtime when the engine 
> starts (e.g. by using the engine folder, or the filename of the stack 
> and computing the paths).
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 14:32:09 2021
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 20:32:09 +0100
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <5e1806d2-c6de-97e4-0eb1-e07a4ef9e8c2@sonic.net>
References: <B540ADAB-F349-4F45-AF9A-98F837512D1E@comcast.net>
 <471cb8d5-d560-954e-6a6e-eb364c262794@fourthworld.com>
 <5e1806d2-c6de-97e4-0eb1-e07a4ef9e8c2@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAEqiJnmMWDU-s9OWpE_2r-MWz11AdvUJB=83uNW2_qBkz-+ekQ@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe it's me but i don't see any difference in scrolling between the left
an right on win10

Op di 2 feb. 2021 om 17:34 schreef Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:

> On 2/1/21 7:10 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > using Kafka's Metamorphosis...
>
> ...then you should expect bugs.
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue Feb  2 16:02:54 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:02:54 -0500
Subject: open secure socket... using certificate
In-Reply-To: <a8c9340a-2ea8-e1c6-1ab6-a29fe6b76e2a@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAPzQJLKz_ooawMwRxKtJwE4crbZJKSe3dFv1FLN6xY7ZL2gF2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <a8c9340a-2ea8-e1c6-1ab6-a29fe6b76e2a@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJWxT-a_nVoDHj2-8q5G5xW99i6meSWSjCirOXsuOBe8g@mail.gmail.com>

Hhahah Richard, that was hilarious. :D Given I've given you next to no info
on the use case, I understand why it may seem overkill, and maybe it is.

A wise person once told me .... and I'm paraphrasing..... " you can't
prevent everything ....so the task at hand is to make things harder and
take longer."  That person was you.

So would it make it harder to steal data if data transport between 2
decoupled processes was encrypted? you bet.

Thanks for giving me food for thought...and I will triple check to make
sure its necessary. :D


On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 6:16 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Tom Glod wrote:
>
>  > Richard,
>  >
>  > Lets say one of my users is targeted by a hacker and they manage
>  > to install a malware process on their system that will capture all
>  > the data flowing between the 2 processes.
>  > Then they do not need to be sitting in the victim's chair.
>  > But if the data was encrypted, this wouldn't matter.
>
> True, that one aspect of your program wouldn't matter.  But since
> everything else on the system is now hosed, does anything matter?
>
> To my ear it sounds like a planning committee meeting for a zoo in which
> they're deciding on the steel thickness of armored suits they require
> visitors to wear because tigers are running loose, while the whole
> facility is on fire. I'm in the back of the room raising my hand asking
> if we might just put the tigers back in the cage. After we put out the
> fire. :)
>
> In the scenario you described, what prevents the bad guy from reading
> the data at rest? Or keylogging? Or replacing either or both of the
> executables you delivered? Or anything else they might do once they have
> that level of control throughout the system?
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  2 17:24:05 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 14:24:05 -0800
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <CAEqiJnmMWDU-s9OWpE_2r-MWz11AdvUJB=83uNW2_qBkz-+ekQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqiJnmMWDU-s9OWpE_2r-MWz11AdvUJB=83uNW2_qBkz-+ekQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1c73ffac-f1ce-f26f-9808-7d6abf31d559@fourthworld.com>

JeeJeeStudio wrote:

 > Panos wrote:
 >> This bug report contains a workaround for smooth scrolling - hope it
 >> helps.
 >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19759
 >
 >
 > Maybe it's me but i don't see any difference in scrolling between the
 > left and right on win10

The original description of the problem here lacks specificity. It's not 
just any scrolling that is affected, but scrolling that happens in 
response to a scroll wheel or trackpad gestures.

The script Panos posted in the bug report has two gradations of scroll 
increment, based on the interval between keydown messages corresponding 
to the scroll wheel/trackpad gesture.

It's good.  Very good. I see the difference here on Ubuntu.

It's so good it should be added to the engine, so we don't merely rely 
solely on the odd chance that someone wanting to make attractive 
software with LC happens to stumble across this thread.

If there's a concern about backward compatibility (understandable given 
the many ways scrollbarDrag messages are used) perhaps fields could have 
a smoothScrolling property added to govern this. And since this behavior 
reflects modern scrolling standards, it should be on by default (yet can 
be turned off for the edge cases where people need the older linear 
scroll for specialized use cases).

That said, with the team's current priorities I don't see this happening 
for quite some time.  That's too bad, because it means every new user 
will get a poorer impression of the LiveCode experience than they could 
be having.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  2 17:52:38 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 14:52:38 -0800
Subject: open secure socket... using certificate
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJWxT-a_nVoDHj2-8q5G5xW99i6meSWSjCirOXsuOBe8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJWxT-a_nVoDHj2-8q5G5xW99i6meSWSjCirOXsuOBe8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a1162492-c1b6-7138-60c3-119be6ad4df7@fourthworld.com>

If the goal were point-scoring gotchas, that I frequently advocate 
industry best practices for security redundancy might indeed seem out of 
place here. I am normally a belt-and-suspenders kinda guy, and I make no 
apologies for it.

Those redundancies usually come up in discussions about exposing 
databases directly to the open Internet, as opposed to doing the common 
thing of putting a script between the DB and the connection (which 
affords the added benefit of allowing us to craft a nice API to help our 
client dev work move forward more smoothly as well).

The distinction is how common the practice is. We see that most systems 
put a script in front of their DB.  And we see that most use localhost 
sockets without SSL.

I'm not inventing any of this. I don't hold an CISSP cert, and I don't 
manage most of the world's projects. I just see what I see, share what I 
see, and where I don't understand something I'll ask, like I did here 
seeking a use-case where the benefit of slowing every socket comm down 
with encryption and decryption provides a benefit not immediately undone 
the moment the data is at rest.

I still hold that there might be a good use case, but after a brief 
search on this I was unable to find one, and none has emerged yet even here.

In your original post describing this system, you emphasized that LC 
multiprocessing is being used to find the fastest way to handle the data 
flow.  We generally accept a tradeoff between utility and security, but 
as with so much of life tradeoffs work best when evaluated for the case 
at hand.

If a user's machine is hosed, it's hosed.  If we look for guidance on 
that from better minds than mine, we can review the practices of leading 
app and OS vendors. Address space layout randomization may be a good 
example of how an OS vendor can mitigate risks in compromised machines, 
but the same OS vendors employing it don't also recommend app devs add 
their own address randomization at the app level. Maybe app devs should? 
Maybe OS vendors are lax?

The deeper we go down the rabbit hole of protecting systems, the more 
challenging it gets.  At a certain point -- a somewhat shallow point, I 
don't mind admitting -- I'm happy to leave the deep thinking to 
specialists and just follow common practice.  If I happen to see a risk 
that common practice doesn't cover, I'll cover it as I go.  But even 
though we have Stuxnet to remind us of the impact of unanticipated 
consequences from design decisions, if I don't have a specific threat 
vector in mind AND it's not a common practice, odds are I'll skip it.

I admit I'm far less of a programmer than the minds behind Stuxnet. And 
since most of the world is, I'm okay with that.

Security awareness is good, and redundancy common. But where a 
redundancy is both uncommon and provides little benefit not undone 
easily elsewhere in the system, I'll often skip it.

And when the house is on fire, I'm not sure it's a service to the 
homeowner to help maintain the illusion that their house isn't on fire.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



Tom Glod wrote:

 > Hhahah Richard, that was hilarious. :D Given I've given you next to no
 > info on the use case, I understand why it may seem overkill, and maybe
 > it is.
 >
 > A wise person once told me .... and I'm paraphrasing..... " you can't
 > prevent everything ....so the task at hand is to make things harder
 > and take longer."  That person was you.
 >
 > So would it make it harder to steal data if data transport between 2
 > decoupled processes was encrypted? you bet.
 >
 > Thanks for giving me food for thought...and I will triple check to
 > make sure its necessary. :D
 >
 >
 > On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 6:16 PM Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> Tom Glod wrote:
 >>
 >>  > Richard,
 >>  >
 >>  > Lets say one of my users is targeted by a hacker and they manage
 >>  > to install a malware process on their system that will capture all
 >>  > the data flowing between the 2 processes.
 >>  > Then they do not need to be sitting in the victim's chair.
 >>  > But if the data was encrypted, this wouldn't matter.
 >>
 >> True, that one aspect of your program wouldn't matter.  But since
 >> everything else on the system is now hosed, does anything matter?
 >>
 >> To my ear it sounds like a planning committee meeting for a zoo in
 >> which they're deciding on the steel thickness of armored suits they
 >> require visitors to wear because tigers are running loose, while
 >> the whole facility is on fire. I'm in the back of the room raising
 >> my hand asking if we might just put the tigers back in the cage.
 >> After we put out the fire. :)
 >>
 >> In the scenario you described, what prevents the bad guy from reading
 >> the data at rest? Or keylogging? Or replacing either or both of the
 >> executables you delivered? Or anything else they might do once they
 >> have that level of control throughout the system?
 >>
 >> --
 >>   Richard Gaskin
 >>   Fourth World Systems





From mark at canelasoftware.com  Tue Feb  2 19:12:12 2021
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:12:12 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <b6161f2a-c245-e780-8ffe-206f92f2a86c@fourthworld.com>
References: <ddda93aeb9cf9e23e36ccad950d83853@livecode.com>
 <b6161f2a-c245-e780-8ffe-206f92f2a86c@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <25DDB950-95D4-42BF-9455-9B37C18D2965@canelasoftware.com>

My simple rule on this is:

If I need to write code, use the IDE. 

If I need to deploy code, use a standalone.
You get the best possible performance. They are flexible since you can dynamically load code. They do not have the burden of  the IDE. It seems the right path to go.

Maybe there is a reason Ben wants to deploy with the IDE? 

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>


> On Feb 2, 2021, at 10:58 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> LC Server doesn't handle externals, so for that we need a standalone?
> 
> I think I'm missing something.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Waddingham wrote:
>> On 2021-02-01 22:25, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Undesirable things found:
>>> 1. I've not found how to access externals (in this case the database
>>> library) without explicitly setting the 'externals' property of the
>>> stack to a (generally unreliably) full path before the stack is saved.
>>> 3. revSetDatabaseDriverPath is required even when the drivers are in
>>> the standard location inside the app 'bundle'.
>>> I'll report (2) and (3) formally when I've done a bit more
>>> investigation. I'd still love to know what I'm doing wrong, in
>>> relation to (1).
>> Please don't - as neither are bugs :)
>> The standalone engine inside the runtime folders in the IDE install is just a bare engine.
>> In community you can certainly run the bare engine without building a standalone but as you have discovered it is just what it is - a bare engine, it knows nothing of externals, database drivers, widgets, script libraries or anything else.
>> If you want a headless (community) engine which has dependencies then all you have to do is deploy a standalone with a launcher stack embedded into it.
>> The launcher stack should have the inclusions you want configured for it, and it can just run the stack you pass as an argument on the command-line.
>> Doing it this way, it means the standalone builder will take care to ensure all the 'inclusions' you set are present and configured correctly (including widgets, externals and script libraries).
>> You only need to rebuild the standalone if your inclusion requirements change, or you want to change engine version.
>> Warmest Regards,
>> Mark.
>> P.S. In regards to (1) the trick is to do this:
>> ```
>> set the externals of the templateStack to <external files list>
>> create invisible stack "Externals" -- or any name you like
>> inser the script of it into back
>> reset the templateStack
>> ```
>> This allows you to compute the external paths at runtime when the engine starts (e.g. by using the engine folder, or the filename of the stack and computing the paths).
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  2 19:31:37 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:31:37 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <25DDB950-95D4-42BF-9455-9B37C18D2965@canelasoftware.com>
References: <25DDB950-95D4-42BF-9455-9B37C18D2965@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a9dafa00-efb8-4bb8-2bb3-aafd88cda6ae@fourthworld.com>

Good rules in general, but my question was about something else entirely.

As for the IDE, it's a GUI; I'm not sure what could be done with it on a 
headless system.  (Yes, instructions are provided for sys admins to 
automate *installing* it via command line -- great for computer labs and 
such -- but I can't imagine how one would *use* the IDE from Terminal.)


As for my post, it was a question in reply to Mark Waddingham's note 
about how only standalones can be expected to use externals.  That is, 
at least as I read it.

I'm hoping I misread it because for headless systems LC Server is 
designed to be the optimal solution:

- Lean runtime

- Can run scripts in stack files, script-only stacks, and even
   plain executable text files in the traditional shebang way:
   https://livecode.com/a-livecode-shell/

- The same engine installed once for general system programming
   can also be aliased in cgi-bin to offer all of the above plus
   PHP-style implicit merge under Apache or Lighttpd. Even if you
   don't need public-facing web hosting, there are a great many
   benefits to having systems communicate via REST.


I was resistant to using LC Server for many years when it first came 
out, because I missed the shebang simplicity we'd enjoyed with MC, and I 
wasn't sure how long LC Ltd would stick with it.  Both concerns have 
been well addressed now, and it's my go-to for headless.  I've even 
replaced many installs that had been standalones during my reluctant years.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



Mark Talluto wrote:
> My simple rule on this is:
> 
> If I need to write code, use the IDE. 
> 
> If I need to deploy code, use a standalone.
> You get the best possible performance. They are flexible since you can dynamically load code. They do not have the burden of  the IDE. It seems the right path to go.
> 
> Maybe there is a reason Ben wants to deploy with the IDE? 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
> 
> 
>> On Feb 2, 2021, at 10:58 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> LC Server doesn't handle externals, so for that we need a standalone?
>> 
>> I think I'm missing something.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>>
>> 
>> Mark Waddingham wrote:
>>> On 2021-02-01 22:25, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Undesirable things found:
>>>> 1. I've not found how to access externals (in this case the database
>>>> library) without explicitly setting the 'externals' property of the
>>>> stack to a (generally unreliably) full path before the stack is saved.
>>>> 3. revSetDatabaseDriverPath is required even when the drivers are in
>>>> the standard location inside the app 'bundle'.
>>>> I'll report (2) and (3) formally when I've done a bit more
>>>> investigation. I'd still love to know what I'm doing wrong, in
>>>> relation to (1).
>>> Please don't - as neither are bugs :)
>>> The standalone engine inside the runtime folders in the IDE install is just a bare engine.
>>> In community you can certainly run the bare engine without building a standalone but as you have discovered it is just what it is - a bare engine, it knows nothing of externals, database drivers, widgets, script libraries or anything else.
>>> If you want a headless (community) engine which has dependencies then all you have to do is deploy a standalone with a launcher stack embedded into it.
>>> The launcher stack should have the inclusions you want configured for it, and it can just run the stack you pass as an argument on the command-line.
>>> Doing it this way, it means the standalone builder will take care to ensure all the 'inclusions' you set are present and configured correctly (including widgets, externals and script libraries).
>>> You only need to rebuild the standalone if your inclusion requirements change, or you want to change engine version.
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> Mark.
>>> P.S. In regards to (1) the trick is to do this:
>>> ```
>>> set the externals of the templateStack to <external files list>
>>> create invisible stack "Externals" -- or any name you like
>>> inser the script of it into back
>>> reset the templateStack
>>> ```
>>> This allows you to compute the external paths at runtime when the engine starts (e.g. by using the engine folder, or the filename of the stack and computing the paths).
>>> -- 
>>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps





From paulmcclernan at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 21:19:15 2021
From: paulmcclernan at gmail.com (Paul McClernan)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 21:19:15 -0500
Subject: Double sided PDF Problem
In-Reply-To: <1eaebe73-dcb2-c84e-891b-d605f6220c46@pair.com>
References: <0B8ECB79-A081-44CB-8A1B-FD81C08D6645@iotecdigital.com>
 <1eaebe73-dcb2-c84e-891b-d605f6220c46@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CA+mv_tUCy7cYiqoEA3e6R+oePVAz-N8o+uB9=T_+iFCFHafNNQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've worked in the printing industry for 30+ years now. What you're
talking about is called page impositions, and it sounds like you're
doing a work-and-tumble" ("the cards are now face down"), you could
also do a work-and-turn instead (flip the pile on the "landscape"
side, instead of portrait side). Your printer probably has a PPD
(PostScript Printer Description), or something similar that tells it
the maximum printable area for the printer, which is probably not
going to be the same on all sides because of things like the "gripper"
that pulls the sheet through the printer. Even if all things are
equal, if a sheet is pulled through on a slight angle or not perfectly
centered it's not going to align well, so make sure that your design
allows for some cushion to be a little off (as much as about 1/16th
Inch). Things like these can mess you up if you don't take them into
account when you're trying to line up images on both sides of the
sheet (I'm guessing you're planning to cut them down into smaller
card-size pieces?). I'm sure this could all be worked out as far as
how to do the layout and printing directly from LiveCode... but why? I
mean this is a job for page layout and imposition software!
...Although, I have thought about doing a calendar-maker app that can
print a stack of paper that can be saddle-stitched/stapled into an
actual hanging calendar (that's a bit more complicated imposition
layout), Hope any of that helps, good luck.

Paul

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 12:37 PM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>
> Brian:
>  > I?d like to print decks of cards, front and back
>
> This post has become a master puzzle of its own!
> Enough detail to elicit solutions, yet still open-ended.
> Each answer makes its own assumptions, and solves a different problem.
> But I like it. So OK, I'll join. Here goes....
>
> My own assumptions derive from Keep It Simple (KISS) code philosophy.
> So I'm not going to read more into the problem than necessary.
> I tend to prefer the simplest and most universal answer.
> Also with the fewest dependencies.
>
>  > The front page is always easy. Cards print left to right: 1-3
>  > Flipping the pages, in portrait layout, the cards are now
>  > face down, in order but reversed: 3,2, 1.
>
> I'm not going to make ANY assumptions about print drivers solving it.
> (Unless first tested in LC, on target platforms, with target printers.)
>
> Bob and Jacque might be right. These days, drivers usually auto-fit.
> But often LC doesn't fit assumptions! Test first; don't build on theory.
>
> The way I read it, so far this is already solved by the 321 reversal.
> Brian already has his images in the proper order, front and back.
> And that approach should be very universal; no dependencies.
> I would expect it to work for any printer, or PDF, any platform.
>
> There was no mention of booklets or alternating margins, so I'm not
> adding that to the problem. Choosing a simple interpretation.
>
>  > The problem is, printing 3 wide by 4 tall, aligning the two.
>
> I see this as just lining up the front and back images precisely so that
> the cards can be cut out. Right now, one side is too far left, or down?
>
> So my suggestion is:
>
> 1. Make sure your images are PRECISELY spaced in their arrangement.
> (Use code if necessary.)
>
> 2. Group the images.
> (Or whatever type of controls you are using for the playing cards.)
>
> 3. Set loc of group to loc of the LC card.
>
> (And LC card widths are usually divible by 2, so center might be a pixel
> different front and back, if you're using the same group of images.
> Depending on image design and driver auto-fit, usually that's moot.
> But if it's a problem, easy to solve - several good options.)
>
> Did I guess right about the nature of the problem? :)
> Nice topic!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From curry at pair.com  Tue Feb  2 23:54:43 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 23:54:43 -0500
Subject: Double sided PDF Problem
In-Reply-To: <CA+mv_tUCy7cYiqoEA3e6R+oePVAz-N8o+uB9=T_+iFCFHafNNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+mv_tUCy7cYiqoEA3e6R+oePVAz-N8o+uB9=T_+iFCFHafNNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03c6c374-369c-1c4c-c3fc-2fc12b1bb05c@pair.com>


Paul:

 > I'm sure this could all be worked out as far as
 > how to do the layout and printing directly from LiveCode... but why?

Good question! Might be a good reason, but not much point in guessing.
The bigger question is: what was the true original problem?

Brian:

 > The problem is, printing 3 wide by 4 tall, aligning the two.

Fun exercise - in both respects! Hope it printed well.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  3 00:33:29 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 21:33:29 -0800
Subject: Double sided PDF Problem
In-Reply-To: <CA+mv_tUCy7cYiqoEA3e6R+oePVAz-N8o+uB9=T_+iFCFHafNNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+mv_tUCy7cYiqoEA3e6R+oePVAz-N8o+uB9=T_+iFCFHafNNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81846c8e-6024-3f49-23b0-6ea3a00a3519@fourthworld.com>

Paul McClernan wrote:

 > I'm sure this could all be worked out as far as how to do the
 > layout and printing directly from LiveCode... but why?

Why? On a LiveCode list you have to ask why? :)

Two reasons come to mind, but doubtless there are many more:

1. Because we can.  It's fun to figure stuff out.

2. Print-and-Play tabletop games. It's quite a burgeoning folk art to 
design and print your own game.  Doesn't have to be fancy, but sometimes 
it helps to print double-sided.

And I'm finding it's not that hard.  The hardest part is making a few 
test runs to work out the metrics between logical pixels and printer 
metrics.  But once you get that worked out the world is your oyster. You 
can make a game design tool that lets you lay out cards while also 
keeping an inventory of parts, and later toss in some probability 
modeling to balance the game play, and then add PDF generation for 
sharing with others, and then go back and make a copy of the last stack 
file to take it further with the next one, adding image handling at 
double-size to reduce down for a crisp print, and then of course you 
need a notebook to keep the scraps of your ideas in, and then you need a 
contact manager to keep track of which play testers you sent it to and 
what they're feedback was, and then you need to put that feedback into 
an issue tracker, and then....

In short, because we can. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From curry at pair.com  Wed Feb  3 01:11:56 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 01:11:56 -0500
Subject: Double sided PDF Problem
In-Reply-To: <81846c8e-6024-3f49-23b0-6ea3a00a3519@fourthworld.com>
References: <81846c8e-6024-3f49-23b0-6ea3a00a3519@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <b8682517-22ad-1abe-fb23-ed3f85d77ac7@pair.com>


Paul:

 >> ... but why?

Richard:

 > 1. Because we can.  It's fun to figure stuff out.

Yes, it is! :)

 > 2. Print-and-Play tabletop games.

This special printer paper looks way too fun:

https://www.avery.com/products/cards/4785

(Discontinued already? Que lastima!
This thread is giving me intense desire for DIY cards....)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Feb  3 02:01:03 2021
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 07:01:03 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <a9dafa00-efb8-4bb8-2bb3-aafd88cda6ae@fourthworld.com>
References: <25DDB950-95D4-42BF-9455-9B37C18D2965@canelasoftware.com>
 <a9dafa00-efb8-4bb8-2bb3-aafd88cda6ae@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <01a177129b7cedb8b66c97f00c191874@livecode.com>

On 2021-02-03 00:31, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> As for my post, it was a question in reply to Mark Waddingham's note
> about how only standalones can be expected to use externals.  That is,
> at least as I read it.

Mark said nothing of the sort :)

LC Server had already been ruled out (for whatever reason) in an earlier 
part of the thread so I was just advising on how to solve Ben's issue of 
wanting a non-server engine that can be run in -ui mode which has 
dependencies.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Wed Feb  3 04:50:41 2021
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 09:50:41 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <01a177129b7cedb8b66c97f00c191874@livecode.com>
References: <25DDB950-95D4-42BF-9455-9B37C18D2965@canelasoftware.com>
 <a9dafa00-efb8-4bb8-2bb3-aafd88cda6ae@fourthworld.com>
 <01a177129b7cedb8b66c97f00c191874@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <eaf43565-7326-7d16-b3dd-f3670255f7dd@cogapp.com>

Yes sorry Richard et al for confusion.

I was using LC standard on a headless Linux machine, i.e. launching the IDE 
but with -ui. It worked fine and ran my stack OK, until it tried to access a 
database. At that point I listened to advice and made a minimal standalone 
configured as a launcher - and built with the necessary libraries - and all 
was right with the world.

At no point was I using LC Server (for whatever reason).

Thanks to everyone who helped me!

Ben


On 03/02/2021 07:01, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2021-02-03 00:31, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> As for my post, it was a question in reply to Mark Waddingham's note
>> about how only standalones can be expected to use externals.? That is,
>> at least as I read it.
> 
> Mark said nothing of the sort :)
> 
> LC Server had already been ruled out (for whatever reason) in an earlier part 
> of the thread so I was just advising on how to solve Ben's issue of wanting a 
> non-server engine that can be run in -ui mode which has dependencies.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Wed Feb  3 05:58:51 2021
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 10:58:51 +0000
Subject: Double sided PDF Problem
In-Reply-To: <81846c8e-6024-3f49-23b0-6ea3a00a3519@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+mv_tUCy7cYiqoEA3e6R+oePVAz-N8o+uB9=T_+iFCFHafNNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <81846c8e-6024-3f49-23b0-6ea3a00a3519@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <2788adc8-a8f1-9f78-1e0d-071f78926abe@cogapp.com>

On 03/02/2021 05:33, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul McClernan wrote:
> 
>  > I'm sure this could all be worked out as far as how to do the
>  > layout and printing directly from LiveCode... but why?
> 
> Why? On a LiveCode list you have to ask why? :)

For what it's worth, a while back (when I had time and access to a laser 
cutter) I built a little flap card box (this sort of thing 
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0099/2822/products/flipbookit-dove-animation_540x.gif?v=1568704931).

Then I had to write code in LC to lay out the frames of a gif so that when 
printed double-sided on card, they'd be cut out with top half of one frame on 
one side of a flap, followed by the bottom half of the next frame on the other 
side. (And also to generate the SVG to cut out all the flaps.)

LC is _obviously_ the right choice for this kind of thing!

Ben



From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk  Wed Feb  3 13:23:15 2021
From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:23:15 +0100
Subject: Files() can't list rtfd files (mac)
Message-ID: <EC853EC6-B998-42FB-8367-AF608603E166@dsa-net.dk>

Hi there

The files function can?t list .rtfd files.

They are a special rtf format on Mac.

Whats up?

Mic


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Feb  3 13:31:30 2021
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:31:30 +0100
Subject: Files() can't list rtfd files (mac)
In-Reply-To: <EC853EC6-B998-42FB-8367-AF608603E166@dsa-net.dk>
References: <EC853EC6-B998-42FB-8367-AF608603E166@dsa-net.dk>
Message-ID: <2F9E9AEB-B555-45B5-B2F6-2CEE0A7E06B9@major-k.de>

Hi Mic,

> Am 03.02.2021 um 19:23 schrieb Michael Kristensen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi there
> 
> The files function can?t list .rtfd files.
> They are a special rtf format on Mac.
> Whats up?

like other Mac things (applications!), RTFD files are actually FOLDERS in disguise!
So you need to read in FOLDERS, too, and filter them with *.rtfd.

Right-click on an existing RTFD file/folder, select "Show contents" and get faimilar 
with the file structure inside of that package.

> Mic

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  3 15:07:28 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:07:28 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <01a177129b7cedb8b66c97f00c191874@livecode.com>
References: <01a177129b7cedb8b66c97f00c191874@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <4fcf4dfc-14af-9a47-9396-48dab4f1d662@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2021-02-03 00:31, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> As for my post, it was a question in reply to Mark Waddingham's note
>> about how only standalones can be expected to use externals.  That is,
>> at least as I read it.
> 
> Mark said nothing of the sort :)

Very glad to be wrong on that.


> LC Server had already been ruled out (for whatever reason) in an earlier 
> part of the thread...

That's too bad. LC Server is LiveCode build designed specifically for 
command line use.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  3 15:21:46 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:21:46 -0800
Subject: Double sided PDF Problem
In-Reply-To: <b8682517-22ad-1abe-fb23-ed3f85d77ac7@pair.com>
References: <b8682517-22ad-1abe-fb23-ed3f85d77ac7@pair.com>
Message-ID: <bb081040-956c-5368-d6a5-352b8730d921@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

> Richard: 
>  > 1. Because we can.  It's fun to figure stuff out.
> 
> Yes, it is! :)
> 
>  > 2. Print-and-Play tabletop games.
> 
> This special printer paper looks way too fun:
> https://www.avery.com/products/cards/4785
> 
> (Discontinued already? Que lastima!
> This thread is giving me intense desire for DIY cards....)

That was a great size, but they still offer a business card size with 
rounded corners - I'm taking it as a challenge to bring the card content 
down to just the essentials. ;)

https://www.avery.com/products/cards/88220

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From martyknappster at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:47:03 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:47:03 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
Message-ID: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>

Is it just my imagination or does LC (9.6.1) now automatically codesign Mac apps when you build a standalone? Well my setup is - I tried on 2 different Macs. Yet I can?t find anywhere to set or change this - what am I missing? Is there a ghost in the machine??

I usually use AppWrapper to do my codesigning as it performs some other cleanup functions that I like. I have a Levure-based app and my build-codesign-notarize process has been working fine, until I tried with LC 9.6.2 rc2. If I leave the codesigning done by LC get a bunch of errors back when I notarize. If I codesign (but not notarize) the 9.6.2 rc2 built app with AppWrapper it crashes on startup with a "Service exited with abnormal code: 255? error.

I tried leaving the codesigning done by LC and then tried notarizing with apps built in 9.6.1 and 9.6.2 - they both fail to notarize with lots of errors

Anybody else having similar issues?

Marty


From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:01:16 2021
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 13:01:16 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <eaf43565-7326-7d16-b3dd-f3670255f7dd@cogapp.com>
References: <25DDB950-95D4-42BF-9455-9B37C18D2965@canelasoftware.com>
 <a9dafa00-efb8-4bb8-2bb3-aafd88cda6ae@fourthworld.com>
 <01a177129b7cedb8b66c97f00c191874@livecode.com>
 <eaf43565-7326-7d16-b3dd-f3670255f7dd@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <5C2D1226-B5FA-4F86-B153-1DA5EE953F89@gmail.com>

That the deployment needs to be headless doesn?t prevent you from running it n the IDE to gain access to single stepping, breakpoints, and the like.

I don?t remember why offhand, but before finding the -ui option, I did some experimenting and fount that I could get the linux version of 5.something to begin execution.  It ran at least preOpenStack before attempting to start the X GUI


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Feb  3 16:06:53 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:06:53 -0500
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b6c3933-5d90-bad3-60ad-55bf84b0611f@researchware.com>

I am using LC 9.6.2rc2 and to the best of my knowledge, it does NOT 
codesign standalone for you. Codesigning and notarization (on macOS) is 
up to you. I codesign and notarize and stable under macOS Mojave using 
Terminal commands and all is working for me.

Apple just sent a notice to developers that an Intermediate Certificate 
expired recently and instructions as to what to do about it. I don't 
know if that may impact you as it depends on what version of Xcode you 
are using and whether you are signing for Mac Store distribution or 
distribution from your own web site.



On 2/3/2021 3:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
> Is it just my imagination or does LC (9.6.1) now automatically codesign Mac apps when you build a standalone? Well my setup is - I tried on 2 different Macs. Yet I can?t find anywhere to set or change this - what am I missing? Is there a ghost in the machine??
>
> I usually use AppWrapper to do my codesigning as it performs some other cleanup functions that I like. I have a Levure-based app and my build-codesign-notarize process has been working fine, until I tried with LC 9.6.2 rc2. If I leave the codesigning done by LC get a bunch of errors back when I notarize. If I codesign (but not notarize) the 9.6.2 rc2 built app with AppWrapper it crashes on startup with a "Service exited with abnormal code: 255? error.
>
> I tried leaving the codesigning done by LC and then tried notarizing with apps built in 9.6.1 and 9.6.2 - they both fail to notarize with lots of errors
>
> Anybody else having similar issues?
>
> Marty
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark at canelasoftware.com  Wed Feb  3 16:17:39 2021
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 13:17:39 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>

LiveCode codesigns their inner parts so they can run on our desktops. We are still required to codesign and notarize our standalones. I too use AppWrapper and have been able to process them fully without errors. 

This is the email from Apple explaining the new certificate:

Starting January 28, 2021, the digital certificates you use to sign your software for installation on Apple devices, submit apps to the App Store, and connect to certain Apple services will be issued from a new intermediate Apple Worldwide Developer Relations certificate (expiring 2030). This new intermediate certificate will not affect the availability or functionality of apps you?re already distributing on the App Store. And you can continue to use your existing certificates until they expire. 

If you?re running Xcode 11.4.1 or later, you?ll receive the updated certificate automatically when you sign an app after January 28, 2021. If you?re running an earlier release of Xcode and need to generate new certificates, download and install the new intermediate certificate and utilize the command line to sign your app. You can also archive your build with your existing Xcode version and sign it for distribution with Xcode 11.4.1 or later. 

The current intermediate certificate (expiring in 2023), will continue to issue certain Apple services certificates, including Apple Push Notification service (APNs) SSL certificates and Apple Wallet pass signing certificates. Keep both versions installed on your development systems and servers until later this year. 

Learn more about upcoming certificate updates for Apple services. <https://c.apple.com/r?v=2&la=en&lc=usa&a=yI6DvqeHGx8Uu2vh7OcF6nanlAxl6kDMv8nG7zaHtQ99osJFtvwJEYBlgUzgHh6dbyk7A9hhPJTIy9r%2BhjMuFrjP6NNq3y8jpL%2FmGvU3LIY%3D&ct=a4C8t168s2> 

Best regards,
Apple Developer Relations


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>


> On Feb 3, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Is it just my imagination or does LC (9.6.1) now automatically codesign Mac apps when you build a standalone? Well my setup is - I tried on 2 different Macs. Yet I can?t find anywhere to set or change this - what am I missing? Is there a ghost in the machine??
> 
> I usually use AppWrapper to do my codesigning as it performs some other cleanup functions that I like. I have a Levure-based app and my build-codesign-notarize process has been working fine, until I tried with LC 9.6.2 rc2. If I leave the codesigning done by LC get a bunch of errors back when I notarize. If I codesign (but not notarize) the 9.6.2 rc2 built app with AppWrapper it crashes on startup with a "Service exited with abnormal code: 255? error.
> 
> I tried leaving the codesigning done by LC and then tried notarizing with apps built in 9.6.1 and 9.6.2 - they both fail to notarize with lots of errors
> 
> Anybody else having similar issues?
> 
> Marty
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From martyknappster at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:45:40 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 13:45:40 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>

Mark,
When I create a new, empty test stack and save as a standalone using versions 9.6.0, 9.6.1 and 9.6.2, I right-click the resulting app to show contents and there is a folder ?_CodeSignature? and inside that is a ?CodeResources? file. When I build a test standalone with LC 9.5.1 that folder is not present. So LC must have started codesigning as you described starting with 9.6.0.

I can build a standalone in 9.6.1, codesign with AppWrapper and it notaries and runs fine. It?s when I do the build with 9.6.2 - it will run before I codesign with AppWrapper but after I codesign with AppWrapper - then it crashes on startup. It is a Levure-based app. If I create an empty test stack, build with 9.6.2, then codesign with AppWrapper it will open without a problem. So it looks like something specific to Levure or some combination of Levure, the version of my X-code (I?m on Mojave running X-Code 10.1 it looks like.) and LC 9.6.2.

Marty


> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:17 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> LiveCode codesigns their inner parts so they can run on our desktops. We are still required to codesign and notarize our standalones. I too use AppWrapper and have been able to process them fully without errors. 
> 
> This is the email from Apple explaining the new certificate:
> 
> Starting January 28, 2021, the digital certificates you use to sign your software for installation on Apple devices, submit apps to the App Store, and connect to certain Apple services will be issued from a new intermediate Apple Worldwide Developer Relations certificate (expiring 2030). This new intermediate certificate will not affect the availability or functionality of apps you?re already distributing on the App Store. And you can continue to use your existing certificates until they expire. 
> 
> If you?re running Xcode 11.4.1 or later, you?ll receive the updated certificate automatically when you sign an app after January 28, 2021. If you?re running an earlier release of Xcode and need to generate new certificates, download and install the new intermediate certificate and utilize the command line to sign your app. You can also archive your build with your existing Xcode version and sign it for distribution with Xcode 11.4.1 or later. 
> 
> The current intermediate certificate (expiring in 2023), will continue to issue certain Apple services certificates, including Apple Push Notification service (APNs) SSL certificates and Apple Wallet pass signing certificates. Keep both versions installed on your development systems and servers until later this year. 
> 
> Learn more about upcoming certificate updates for Apple services. <https://c.apple.com/r?v=2&la=en&lc=usa&a=yI6DvqeHGx8Uu2vh7OcF6nanlAxl6kDMv8nG7zaHtQ99osJFtvwJEYBlgUzgHh6dbyk7A9hhPJTIy9r%2BhjMuFrjP6NNq3y8jpL%2FmGvU3LIY%3D&ct=a4C8t168s2> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Apple Developer Relations
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
> 




From paulmcclernan at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:55:29 2021
From: paulmcclernan at gmail.com (Paul McClernan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:55:29 -0500
Subject: Double sided PDF Problem
In-Reply-To: <81846c8e-6024-3f49-23b0-6ea3a00a3519@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+mv_tUCy7cYiqoEA3e6R+oePVAz-N8o+uB9=T_+iFCFHafNNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <81846c8e-6024-3f49-23b0-6ea3a00a3519@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+mv_tUUAN-c5Ovmtrk0Kg-6ZZUFUwMyaT6ps-N+KD_gAycYsA@mail.gmail.com>

> Why? On a LiveCode list you have to ask why? :)
It was more of a rhetorical question / suggestion... Output PDF of
1-Up card pages from LiveCode and then use imposition software or a
page layout app, link the layout to the LC PDF file and print, that's
the way it's done by printers. And most of these apps have some type
of scripting to automate workflows like that. Nowaday some online
printing outfits (like Avery) have sites where you can just drag-drop
pages into a web page-layout. I'm not sure if any of those have an API
that could be hooked into, but that's another idea.

> 1. Because we can.  It's fun to figure stuff out.
Sounds like work to me, because I've done a lot of that for work. I do
get a kick out of figuring stuff out. Decades ago I read a short book
called The PostScript Language Cookbook and got inspired to create
HyperCard Stack (using a bunch of XCMD/XFCNs from Dartmouth, Rindaldi,
etc.) that could generate raw postscript.ps files of Font-book
specimen pages and download them directly to a LaserPrinter,
completely bypassing print driver / print dialog boxes. After learning
more about Postscript and a various graphics formats like TIFF, I
worked up an almost complete Prepress-Preflight app in HC, but just
then a commercial product called FlightCheck came out and so I just
abandoned the idea.

> 2. Print-and-Play tabletop games. It's quite a burgeoning folk art to
> design and print your own game.  Doesn't have to be fancy, but sometimes
Not my bag but cool. I'm using my fun time I'm trying to Bring The
Noise to LC ;-)

> And I'm finding it's not that hard.  The hardest part is making a few
> test runs to work out the metrics between logical pixels and printer
> metrics.
In my limited examination of PDF output from LC (back in version 7 or
8, i think), it seems that some items, such as text are output as
resolution independent vectors graphics while other things are
rendered as pixel images at 288 DPI (4 x 72px), which should be
high-res enough for most people. A printer should take whatever you
send it and just interpolate to it's native resolution (300,1200,2400
DPI) and screening system.

But again, most home printers can't do edge-to-edge printing, and will
have printable areas / margins that are not centered on the
sheet-size, for example the top may have 1/4 inch non-printable area
due to the gripper, while the bottom may be only 1/8th inch
non-printable area, so you should consider that if you are designing a
layout that needs to line up with the other-side when the sheet needs
to flipped in that direction.

>That was a great size, but they still offer a business card size with
rounded corners
> https://www.avery.com/products/cards/88220
I'm a big fan of Avery. Used their scored/perf'd/label sheets many
times over the years.
Full Disclosure: I currently work for the company that owns that brand.



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb  3 17:42:49 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 17:42:49 -0500
Subject: Testing 3.4.5.6
Message-ID: <85F7937F-C39A-46BF-9748-988001EA2326@all-auctions.com>

Hi Rick,

Get this?

Rick



From mark at canelasoftware.com  Wed Feb  3 17:59:58 2021
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:59:58 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>

Hi Marty,

My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.

I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read, Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s framework. 

If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.

When you find out, please post back what you learn. 

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>




> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:45 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> When I create a new, empty test stack and save as a standalone using versions 9.6.0, 9.6.1 and 9.6.2, I right-click the resulting app to show contents and there is a folder ?_CodeSignature? and inside that is a ?CodeResources? file. When I build a test standalone with LC 9.5.1 that folder is not present. So LC must have started codesigning as you described starting with 9.6.0.
> 
> I can build a standalone in 9.6.1, codesign with AppWrapper and it notaries and runs fine. It?s when I do the build with 9.6.2 - it will run before I codesign with AppWrapper but after I codesign with AppWrapper - then it crashes on startup. It is a Levure-based app. If I create an empty test stack, build with 9.6.2, then codesign with AppWrapper it will open without a problem. So it looks like something specific to Levure or some combination of Levure, the version of my X-code (I?m on Mojave running X-Code 10.1 it looks like.) and LC 9.6.2.
> 
> Marty
> 
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:17 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> LiveCode codesigns their inner parts so they can run on our desktops. We are still required to codesign and notarize our standalones. I too use AppWrapper and have been able to process them fully without errors. 
>> 
>> This is the email from Apple explaining the new certificate:
>> 
>> Starting January 28, 2021, the digital certificates you use to sign your software for installation on Apple devices, submit apps to the App Store, and connect to certain Apple services will be issued from a new intermediate Apple Worldwide Developer Relations certificate (expiring 2030). This new intermediate certificate will not affect the availability or functionality of apps you?re already distributing on the App Store. And you can continue to use your existing certificates until they expire. 
>> 
>> If you?re running Xcode 11.4.1 or later, you?ll receive the updated certificate automatically when you sign an app after January 28, 2021. If you?re running an earlier release of Xcode and need to generate new certificates, download and install the new intermediate certificate and utilize the command line to sign your app. You can also archive your build with your existing Xcode version and sign it for distribution with Xcode 11.4.1 or later. 
>> 
>> The current intermediate certificate (expiring in 2023), will continue to issue certain Apple services certificates, including Apple Push Notification service (APNs) SSL certificates and Apple Wallet pass signing certificates. Keep both versions installed on your development systems and servers until later this year. 
>> 
>> Learn more about upcoming certificate updates for Apple services. <https://c.apple.com/r?v=2&la=en&lc=usa&a=yI6DvqeHGx8Uu2vh7OcF6nanlAxl6kDMv8nG7zaHtQ99osJFtvwJEYBlgUzgHh6dbyk7A9hhPJTIy9r%2BhjMuFrjP6NNq3y8jpL%2FmGvU3LIY%3D&ct=a4C8t168s2> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Apple Developer Relations
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Mark Talluto
>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Thu Feb  4 01:58:25 2021
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 06:58:25 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <4fcf4dfc-14af-9a47-9396-48dab4f1d662@fourthworld.com>
References: <01a177129b7cedb8b66c97f00c191874@livecode.com>
 <4fcf4dfc-14af-9a47-9396-48dab4f1d662@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <e2d17babaaa59d05a7604cc9c6cd440c@livecode.com>

On 2021-02-03 20:07, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> LC Server had already been ruled out (for whatever reason) in an 
>> earlier part of the thread...
> 
> That's too bad. LC Server is LiveCode build designed specifically for
> command line use.

Interesting - I don't remember that being what I specifically designed 
it for :P

LiveCode Server was *specifically designed* to be used just like PHP - 
allowing you to interpolate code with HTML output for the purposes of 
constructing webpages on the fly, sitting behind a web-server... That's 
why it has unique syntax designed precisely for a CGI environment, and 
operating in that PHP-like manner.

Making it run in command-line mode as well was an obvious thing to do, 
and also made up for the fact (at the time) that bare standalone engines 
would not launch a stack on the command-line (as that was a rather 
gaping licensing hole which was closed between v3 and v4
IIRC). [ It also made it easier to test the general features of it! ]

Since the advent of the community edition, however, and perhaps more 
importantly script-only-stacks - standalone engines running with -ui can 
be just as convenient...

Assuming there isn't a feature-requiring reason to use one over the 
other, then it pretty much comes down to how you want to write your text 
based scripts.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb  4 04:52:25 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 01:52:25 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <e2d17babaaa59d05a7604cc9c6cd440c@livecode.com>
References: <e2d17babaaa59d05a7604cc9c6cd440c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <495320c4-159b-1a20-2e38-816326983081@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:

> On 2021-02-03 20:07, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> LC Server had already been ruled out (for whatever reason) in an 
>>> earlier part of the thread...
>> 
>> That's too bad. LC Server is LiveCode build designed specifically for
>> command line use.
> 
> Interesting - I don't remember that being what I specifically designed 
> it for :P
> 
> LiveCode Server was *specifically designed* to be used just like PHP - 
> allowing you to interpolate code with HTML output for the purposes of 
> constructing webpages on the fly, sitting behind a web-server... That's 
> why it has unique syntax designed precisely for a CGI environment, and 
> operating in that PHP-like manner.
> 
> Making it run in command-line mode as well was an obvious thing to do, 
> and also made up for the fact (at the time) that bare standalone engines 
> would not launch a stack on the command-line (as that was a rather 
> gaping licensing hole which was closed between v3 and v4
> IIRC). [ It also made it easier to test the general features of it! ]
> 
> Since the advent of the community edition, however, and perhaps more 
> importantly script-only-stacks - standalone engines running with -ui can 
> be just as convenient...


Indeed it can.  The -ui option for running standalones was something 
many of us enjoyed back in the MetaCard days; AFAIK it was first 
implemented with v1.0 back in '92; it least it was there when I first 
started with MC back in '96.

In addition to being an option for standalones, one could even run the 
bare engine with -ui as well.

And being a command line tool that uses stdin/stdout, running the engine 
or a standalone with -ui also worked well as a CGI under Apache or 
Lightly (though in a flavor more like Perl, Python, or Ruby than PHP).

Your fine addition in more recent years with a special Server build to 
allow PHP-like co-mingling of code and content was well done and much 
appreciated for those who enjoy that workflow on web servers.

And back in '14 David Williams reminded us that the standard shebang 
option for running a script text file is still available, though with a 
slight syntactic difference from how we used to do that with MC (entry 
point used to be a startup message, now just bare script statements 
outside of a handler):
https://livecode.com/a-livecode-shell/


With all this flexibility in one lean install, for me the pros of LC 
Server for headless work are clear:

- We get the benefits of a standalone without having to make a
   standalone (indeed the engine can be kept up to date with a
   scrape-n-wget from the Downloads page, without needing to run
   it through the Standalone Builder on a separate GUI system).

- We have the same options for running it as a standalone, without
   needing to remember to add -ui (minor, but every little simplicity
   is nice).

- BONUS: We get the bonus option of running it aa a CGI without
   needing to write our own libraries for that (reading and parsing
   POST, writing to stdOut, handling every little detail about
   headers, sessions, and more).  And when we do, we can enjoy
   PHP-style implicit merge, mixing content and code much more
   conveniently than with the merge function.

That bonus may be irrelevant for some use cases, but probably not many. 
After all, a headless machine is usually not our main dev machine; it's 
probably being deployed to provide services for client machines. When 
those services are being delivered over a network we'll need a protocol, 
and in most cases HTTP will be a great choice, certainly the most common 
one. And though we can write our own HTTP daemon in LC, letting Apache 
do that generic work gives us better throughput, robustness, and 
security, with lower maintenance costs.

Letting Apache do what it does best lets us do what we do best: focus on 
the functionality unique to our application service.


All that said, perhaps my appreciation for your work with LC Server is 
indeed misplaced, and maybe it shouldn't be encouraged as the go-to 
choice for headless LiveCode development. :)

But as one who resisted using it for many years after it was released, 
continuing to use standalones with -ui, I must admit that the 
efficiencies in both execution time and my development and maintenance 
time eventually made me uniquely enamored of LC Server as my default 
choice for any headless system.

So if this makes me an LC Server fanboy, guilty as charged, your honor.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 11:31:48 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:31:48 +0000
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <e2d17babaaa59d05a7604cc9c6cd440c@livecode.com>
References: <01a177129b7cedb8b66c97f00c191874@livecode.com>
 <4fcf4dfc-14af-9a47-9396-48dab4f1d662@fourthworld.com>
 <e2d17babaaa59d05a7604cc9c6cd440c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <D39FDC11-AC2A-474E-A9C1-E680B86A32D0@iotecdigital.com>

I don?t remember what I had for dinner on Friday. :-)

Bob S


On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:58 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

On 2021-02-03 20:07, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
LC Server had already been ruled out (for whatever reason) in an earlier part of the thread...
That's too bad. LC Server is LiveCode build designed specifically for
command line use.

Interesting - I don't remember that being what I specifically designed it for :P


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Feb  4 11:40:40 2021
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 17:40:40 +0100
Subject: Sign a Mac App, also sign the DMG?
Message-ID: <C5125C36-FCF9-4F03-B6D5-58AD2AF76925@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

quick question, now we have a Mac app, signed and notarized
and what not, is it also neccessary for the DMG we create from
that app for distribution?

Thanks for any insight!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Feb  4 11:46:40 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:46:40 -0500
Subject: Sign a Mac App, also sign the DMG?
In-Reply-To: <C5125C36-FCF9-4F03-B6D5-58AD2AF76925@major-k.de>
References: <C5125C36-FCF9-4F03-B6D5-58AD2AF76925@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <10796896-38fa-a5d9-1004-038a5186cfe7@researchware.com>

If the App is Signed and Notarized, it is actually best NOT to sign the 
DMG. Older versions of MacOS (like Mavericks, etc.) have a problem with 
signed DMGs


On 2/4/2021 11:40 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> quick question, now we have a Mac app, signed and notarized
> and what not, is it also neccessary for the DMG we create from
> that app for distribution?
>
> Thanks for any insight!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Feb  4 11:48:42 2021
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 17:48:42 +0100
Subject: Sign a Mac App, also sign the DMG?
In-Reply-To: <10796896-38fa-a5d9-1004-038a5186cfe7@researchware.com>
References: <C5125C36-FCF9-4F03-B6D5-58AD2AF76925@major-k.de>
 <10796896-38fa-a5d9-1004-038a5186cfe7@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <F7FD20FF-4ABA-4F8A-A579-F084CCEDA9A7@major-k.de>

Hi Paul,

> Am 04.02.2021 um 17:46 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> If the App is Signed and Notarized, it is actually best NOT to sign the DMG.
> Older versions of MacOS (like Mavericks, etc.) have a problem with signed DMGs

thank you very much, very helpful!

> On 2/4/2021 11:40 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> quick question, now we have a Mac app, signed and notarized
>> and what not, is it also neccessary for the DMG we create from
>> that app for distribution?
>> 
>> Thanks for any insight!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu Feb  4 11:51:31 2021
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 08:51:31 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <495320c4-159b-1a20-2e38-816326983081@fourthworld.com>
References: <e2d17babaaa59d05a7604cc9c6cd440c@livecode.com>
 <495320c4-159b-1a20-2e38-816326983081@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <61940782-f10f-6336-50e6-b6e83502ccfd@sonic.net>

On 2/4/21 1:52 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

> With all this flexibility in one lean install, for me the pros of LC 
> Server for headless work are clear:

...plus the fact that there's an "include" command in the server, 
allowing for things like global constants.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From bogdanoff at me.com  Thu Feb  4 11:54:08 2021
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 08:54:08 -0800
Subject: Sign a Mac App, also sign the DMG?
In-Reply-To: <F7FD20FF-4ABA-4F8A-A579-F084CCEDA9A7@major-k.de>
References: <F7FD20FF-4ABA-4F8A-A579-F084CCEDA9A7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <04BD390F-0664-4AA6-9AB8-B83EAE7786C7@me.com>

To avoid the unidentifiable developer warning in recent macOS versions, you do need it signed. If your market is consumers, that is what they will have.

DropDMG is great.

Peter 

> On Feb 4, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Paul,
> 
>> Am 04.02.2021 um 17:46 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> If the App is Signed and Notarized, it is actually best NOT to sign the DMG.
>> Older versions of MacOS (like Mavericks, etc.) have a problem with signed DMGs
> 
> thank you very much, very helpful!
> 
>>> On 2/4/2021 11:40 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> quick question, now we have a Mac app, signed and notarized
>>> and what not, is it also neccessary for the DMG we create from
>>> that app for distribution?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for any insight!
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Thu Feb  4 12:03:13 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 12:03:13 -0500
Subject: Sign a Mac App, also sign the DMG?
In-Reply-To: <04BD390F-0664-4AA6-9AB8-B83EAE7786C7@me.com>
References: <F7FD20FF-4ABA-4F8A-A579-F084CCEDA9A7@major-k.de>
 <04BD390F-0664-4AA6-9AB8-B83EAE7786C7@me.com>
Message-ID: <b609ec84-5ae1-c34b-e1f6-fef65bd313c6@researchware.com>

We current ship a commercial app. We code sign, notarize, and staple our 
App We then place it on a DMG using DropDMG, but do not code sign the 
DMG. We distribute the DMG via our Web site and not the MacApp store.

QA testing on Catalina and Big Sur show only the usual "This (the DMG) 
has been downloaded from the Internet" warning that your get even with a 
signed DMG if downloading outside of the MacApp store. Where as a signed 
DMG will not open on Mavericks and a couple other above 10.9.

We test on 10.9 to 10.16 as that is the range of MacOS versions 
supported by LC.


On 2/4/2021 11:54 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote:
> To avoid the unidentifiable developer warning in recent macOS versions, you do need it signed. If your market is consumers, that is what they will have.
>
> DropDMG is great.
>
> Peter
>
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Hi Paul,
>>
>>> Am 04.02.2021 um 17:46 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> If the App is Signed and Notarized, it is actually best NOT to sign the DMG.
>>> Older versions of MacOS (like Mavericks, etc.) have a problem with signed DMGs
>> thank you very much, very helpful!
>>
>>>> On 2/4/2021 11:40 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi friends,
>>>>
>>>> quick question, now we have a Mac app, signed and notarized
>>>> and what not, is it also neccessary for the DMG we create from
>>>> that app for distribution?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any insight!
>> Best
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk  Thu Feb  4 13:03:04 2021
From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 19:03:04 +0100
Subject: Files() can't list rtfd files (mac)
Message-ID: <4057E45A-38B5-4CCF-911D-0B566ED3CA3A@dsa-net.dk>

Danke sch?n Klaus

Michael


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 13:59:05 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 18:59:05 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
Message-ID: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I know we have tread this ground before, but I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields), then save it when I close it BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar. I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone. 

You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken. 

The dictionary reads, 

The closeStackRequest message is only sent if the request to close a stack is initiated by the user (eg by clicking file -> close in the LiveCode menu). If the request is initiated from a script (eg "close this stack" ) then the closeStackRequest message is not sent.

Apparently clicking the red dot is not considered, ?initiated by the user.? It ought to be. 

If I use ?CloseStack? instead, I cannot save the stack because a script is currently running, and I do not want to be presented with the dialog to save, do not save, or cancel. I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up. 

Bob S


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 14:25:58 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:25:58 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>

I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is well.

marty

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Marty,
> 
> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
> 
> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read, Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s framework. 
> 
> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
> 
> When you find out, please post back what you learn. 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:45 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Mark,
>> When I create a new, empty test stack and save as a standalone using versions 9.6.0, 9.6.1 and 9.6.2, I right-click the resulting app to show contents and there is a folder ?_CodeSignature? and inside that is a ?CodeResources? file. When I build a test standalone with LC 9.5.1 that folder is not present. So LC must have started codesigning as you described starting with 9.6.0.
>> 
>> I can build a standalone in 9.6.1, codesign with AppWrapper and it notaries and runs fine. It?s when I do the build with 9.6.2 - it will run before I codesign with AppWrapper but after I codesign with AppWrapper - then it crashes on startup. It is a Levure-based app. If I create an empty test stack, build with 9.6.2, then codesign with AppWrapper it will open without a problem. So it looks like something specific to Levure or some combination of Levure, the version of my X-code (I?m on Mojave running X-Code 10.1 it looks like.) and LC 9.6.2.
>> 
>> Marty




From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 14:40:24 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:40:24 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>

Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip? library (crashes when codesigned)

Just filed a bug report on this - 23083

Marty

> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is well.
> 
> marty
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Marty,
>> 
>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>> 
>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read, Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s framework. 
>> 
>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>> 
>> When you find out, please post back what you learn. 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Mark Talluto
>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>> 




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Feb  4 14:55:28 2021
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:55:28 -0500
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <61940782-f10f-6336-50e6-b6e83502ccfd@sonic.net>
References: <e2d17babaaa59d05a7604cc9c6cd440c@livecode.com>
 <495320c4-159b-1a20-2e38-816326983081@fourthworld.com>
 <61940782-f10f-6336-50e6-b6e83502ccfd@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <003e01d6fb2f$b3032210$19096630$@net>

David's server talk is worth a mention again! He got me into LC server. It
was so nice not to have learn php in depth as I could leverage my LC
knowledge and existing code. I use server every day.

But a question... I have always been confused with the difference between
"start using' and "include" but I think I get it now.
"Start using" is just like desktop and the message path goes thru it in
order of the "start using"s take on desktop.
"Include" is including the code into the script that invokes it. So as Mark
said you could use includes to set global vars or even a different include
file of constants depending on the data received in the web request.
Is this correct?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Wieder via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 11:52 AM
To: Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Cc: Mark Wieder
Subject: Re: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux

On 2/4/21 1:52 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

> With all this flexibility in one lean install, for me the pros of LC 
> Server for headless work are clear:

...plus the fact that there's an "include" command in the server, allowing
for things like global constants.

--
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Feb  4 15:37:39 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 15:37:39 -0500
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>

FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via Terminal 
command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple without problems.


On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip? library (crashes when codesigned)
>
> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>
> Marty
>
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is well.
>>
>> marty
>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Marty,
>>>
>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>
>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read, Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s framework.
>>>
>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>
>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Mark Talluto
>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Feb  4 15:46:29 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 15:46:29 -0500
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>

I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we 
codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1

On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via 
> Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple 
> without problems.
>
>
> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip? 
>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>
>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>
>> Marty
>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave 
>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is 
>>> well.
>>>
>>> marty
>>>
>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>
>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>
>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read, 
>>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s 
>>>> framework.
>>>>
>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some 
>>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am 
>>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>
>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mark Talluto
>>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 15:46:45 2021
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:46:45 +0200
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9OqG=-9Y7KcwnmwXqpfzMLb8a0n5ztLTxREYrx6N--6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Marty,

How is revZip used by your app? Is it used on startup?

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:38, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via Terminal
> command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple without
> problems.
>
>
> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
> > Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
> library (crashes when codesigned)
> >
> > Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
> >
> > Marty
> >
> >> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is well.
> >>
> >> marty
> >>
> >>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Marty,
> >>>
> >>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
> >>>
> >>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
> framework.
> >>>
> >>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am certain
> Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
> >>>
> >>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Mark Talluto
> >>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
> >>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
> >>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
> >>>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 15:51:58 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 12:51:58 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9OqG=-9Y7KcwnmwXqpfzMLb8a0n5ztLTxREYrx6N--6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq9OqG=-9Y7KcwnmwXqpfzMLb8a0n5ztLTxREYrx6N--6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C650222-24BD-462D-B5C4-EDF00D179835@gmail.com>

No it is not used on startup, it?s for a backup feature that the user invokes. I am on Mojave and looks like x-code 10.1. Do you think my version of x-code could be the issue?

All is fine when I build with LC 9.6.1. It?s when I build with 9.6.2. I?ve used the codesigning ability of Trevor?s ?Levure? framework as well as AppWrapper - tried both version 3 and 4

Marty

> On Feb 4, 2021, at 12:46 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Marty,
> 
> How is revZip used by your app? Is it used on startup?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:38, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via Terminal
>> command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple without
>> problems.
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>> 
>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>> 
>>> Marty
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is well.
>>>> 
>>>> marty
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>> 
>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
>> framework.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am certain
>> Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>> 




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Feb  4 15:55:44 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:55:44 +0100
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <7C650222-24BD-462D-B5C4-EDF00D179835@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq9OqG=-9Y7KcwnmwXqpfzMLb8a0n5ztLTxREYrx6N--6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C650222-24BD-462D-B5C4-EDF00D179835@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF4C0A68-C62A-46DC-9E1E-0ADA76EFAA47@m-r-d.de>

Hi Marty,

i added a comment to your bug report already. I used your demo stack and cannot replicate the crash.
I use App Wrapper 4 to code sign. I code signe for Web distribution, not for App Store or Store installer.

I am also on Mojave (10.14.6), but i am using Xcode 11.3

Regards,
Matthias


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 04.02.2021 um 21:51 schrieb Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> No it is not used on startup, it?s for a backup feature that the user invokes. I am on Mojave and looks like x-code 10.1. Do you think my version of x-code could be the issue?
> 
> All is fine when I build with LC 9.6.1. It?s when I build with 9.6.2. I?ve used the codesigning ability of Trevor?s ?Levure? framework as well as AppWrapper - tried both version 3 and 4
> 
> Marty
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 12:46 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Marty,
>> 
>> How is revZip used by your app? Is it used on startup?
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> --
>> 
>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:38, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via Terminal
>>> command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple without
>>> problems.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
>>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>>> 
>>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>>> 
>>>> Marty
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> marty
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
>>> framework.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am certain
>>> Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 15:56:01 2021
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:56:01 +0200
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>

@Marty

If you have not done it already, it might be worth adding entitlements to
the codesign.

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps

I do not think it is the Xcode version that is the problem. I am on Mojave
as well, so I can do a quick test if you send me the standalone that
crashes. Also make sure you attach the stack to the bug report :)

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:47, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we
> codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1
>
> On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> > FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via
> > Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple
> > without problems.
> >
> >
> > On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
> >> library (crashes when codesigned)
> >>
> >> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
> >>
> >> Marty
> >>
> >>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
> >>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is
> >>> well.
> >>>
> >>> marty
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode
> >>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Marty,
> >>>>
> >>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
> >>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
> >>>> framework.
> >>>>
> >>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
> >>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am
> >>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Mark Talluto
> >>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
> >>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
> >>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Feb  4 16:05:43 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:05:43 +0100
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E627C818-468F-419C-ACD5-D458046CBBD1@m-r-d.de>

The stack is already attached to the bug report. ;) 

I had some time, so I've used Marty's demo stack and  created a standalone and code signed it. I also did not add the entitlements when code signing with App Wrapper 4. 
The code signed app does not crash at startup.


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 04.02.2021 um 21:56 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> @Marty
> 
> If you have not done it already, it might be worth adding entitlements to
> the codesign.
> 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps
> 
> I do not think it is the Xcode version that is the problem. I am on Mojave
> as well, so I can do a quick test if you send me the standalone that
> crashes. Also make sure you attach the stack to the bug report :)
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:47, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we
>> codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1
>> 
>> On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via
>>> Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple
>>> without problems.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
>>>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>>> 
>>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>>> 
>>>> Marty
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
>>>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is
>>>>> well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> marty
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode
>>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
>>>>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
>>>>>> framework.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
>>>>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am
>>>>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mark Talluto
>>>>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>>>>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>>>>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Feb  4 16:07:33 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:07:33 -0500
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0393eaf-5fb6-6c12-4b3e-389d38f50d74@researchware.com>

I should have added that we sign with entitlements (the same set LC uses)

On 2/4/2021 3:56 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> @Marty
>
> If you have not done it already, it might be worth adding entitlements to
> the codesign.
>
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps
>
> I do not think it is the Xcode version that is the problem. I am on Mojave
> as well, so I can do a quick test if you send me the standalone that
> crashes. Also make sure you attach the stack to the bug report :)
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:47, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we
>> codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1
>>
>> On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via
>>> Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple
>>> without problems.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
>>>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>>>
>>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>>>
>>>> Marty
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
>>>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>> marty
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode
>>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
>>>>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
>>>>>> framework.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
>>>>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am
>>>>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Talluto
>>>>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>>>>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>>>>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 16:09:59 2021
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:09:59 +0200
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <e0393eaf-5fb6-6c12-4b3e-389d38f50d74@researchware.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e0393eaf-5fb6-6c12-4b3e-389d38f50d74@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9M21uVm+BKR2SL4ua13=e6R6NMvahRCGA76R9fSBcfQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for testing Matthias :)

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, 23:08 Paul Dupuis via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I should have added that we sign with entitlements (the same set LC uses)
>
> On 2/4/2021 3:56 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> > @Marty
> >
> > If you have not done it already, it might be worth adding entitlements to
> > the codesign.
> >
> >
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps
> >
> > I do not think it is the Xcode version that is the problem. I am on
> Mojave
> > as well, so I can do a quick test if you send me the standalone that
> > crashes. Also make sure you attach the stack to the bug report :)
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> > On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:47, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we
> >> codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1
> >>
> >> On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via
> >>> Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple
> >>> without problems.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
> >>>> library (crashes when codesigned)
> >>>>
> >>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
> >>>>
> >>>> Marty
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
> >>>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is
> >>>>> well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> marty
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode
> >>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Marty,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
> >>>>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
> >>>>>> framework.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
> >>>>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am
> >>>>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mark Talluto
> >>>>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
> >>>>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
> >>>>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From curry at pair.com  Thu Feb  4 16:23:41 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:23:41 -0500
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <0cbbddda-132f-c21c-399b-f360c3d687bc@pair.com>


Bob:

 > I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
 > then save it when I close it

This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in....

I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
(More on that later.)

 > BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
 > (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
 > I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.

So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
(Tally: 3)

Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
(Tally: "3+")

Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:

 > If I use ?CloseStack? instead

Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.

Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)

I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
(But if one will work, use one.)

 > You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
 > click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.

Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!

But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
(Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)

To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!

We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.

 > I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.

I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
(And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)

But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Thu Feb  4 17:27:27 2021
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:27:27 +0100
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <0cbbddda-132f-c21c-399b-f360c3d687bc@pair.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <0cbbddda-132f-c21c-399b-f360c3d687bc@pair.com>
Message-ID: <9BF6645B-0458-4F09-BBBE-507291904EE3@me.com>

I follow a similar approach to what Curry describes here, keeping it modular, but I do not do any clean up at closing time. Instead I execute the necessary routines as part of a preOpenStack handler. I then do not have to consider which way the stack was closed. This is also what I encourage my students to do, in order to present the users with a pristine application every time the user starts the application.

By keeping it modular, the clean up script can also be started from other handlers if necessary. 

Best regards
Tore Nilsen

> 4. feb. 2021 kl. 22:23 skrev Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> 
> Bob:
> 
> > I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
> > then save it when I close it
> 
> This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in....
> 
> I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
> I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
> (More on that later.)
> 
> > BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
> > (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
> > I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
> 
> So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
> You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
> (Tally: 3)
> 
> Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
> I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
> So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
> (Tally: "3+")
> 
> Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:
> 
> > If I use ?CloseStack? instead
> 
> Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
> The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.
> 
> Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
> 3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
> But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)
> 
> I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
> (But if one will work, use one.)
> 
> > You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
> > click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.
> 
> Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
> and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!
> 
> But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
> the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
> It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
> (Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)
> 
> To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
> But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!
> 
> We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
> via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
> Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.
> 
> > I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.
> 
> I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
> If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
> (And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)
> 
> But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
> It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
> You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:28:07 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:28:07 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9M21uVm+BKR2SL4ua13=e6R6NMvahRCGA76R9fSBcfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e0393eaf-5fb6-6c12-4b3e-389d38f50d74@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq9M21uVm+BKR2SL4ua13=e6R6NMvahRCGA76R9fSBcfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B982D627-A139-4A4A-9C9D-1E4C867273C2@gmail.com>

I just updated to Xcode 11.3 and still have the issue. With revzip included, building with 9.6.2 it works fine *until* I codesign - either with the Levure app packager or with AppWrapper (tried versions 3 and 4) As soon as it starts to launch it crashes. If I take out revzip the app will open fine when code signed.

If rev zip was damaged it would not work in the unsigned app. Anything else that I should check? This is really frustrating.

Marty

> On Feb 4, 2021, at 1:09 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for testing Matthias :)
> 
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, 23:08 Paul Dupuis via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I should have added that we sign with entitlements (the same set LC uses)
>> 
>> On 2/4/2021 3:56 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
>>> @Marty
>>> 
>>> If you have not done it already, it might be worth adding entitlements to
>>> the codesign.
>>> 
>>> 
>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps
>>> 
>>> I do not think it is the Xcode version that is the problem. I am on
>> Mojave
>>> as well, so I can do a quick test if you send me the standalone that
>>> crashes. Also make sure you attach the stack to the bug report :)
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>>> --
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:47, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we
>>>> codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1
>>>> 
>>>> On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via
>>>>> Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple
>>>>> without problems.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
>>>>>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marty
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
>>>>>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is
>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> marty
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode
>>>>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
>>>>>>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
>>>>>>>> framework.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
>>>>>>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am
>>>>>>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mark Talluto
>>>>>>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>>>>>>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>>>>>>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 17:43:37 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:43:37 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <0cbbddda-132f-c21c-399b-f360c3d687bc@pair.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <0cbbddda-132f-c21c-399b-f360c3d687bc@pair.com>
Message-ID: <0EC86D60-8554-4E2B-B502-7BB355D7BD7C@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks for the response Curry and Tore. 

The reason I clean up at close is because when I open the stack the next time I do not want to remains of what I was doing before to show. It?s a small point but it look cleaner if the first time opening the stack there is nothing in the fields. All attempts to hide the stack then clear it before making it visible have been iffy. 

I guess what I need is a message or series of messages that get generated BEFORE the stack is closed. 

I have this in the only card in my stack: 

on closeStackRequest
   resetMainForm
   save this stack
   pass closeStackRequest ? this has a breakpoint
end closeStackRequest

I have a breakpoint on the pass statement. When clicking the red dot I get asked if I want to save the stack. For whatever reason, for me the closeStackRequest is NOT getting sent to the current card! 

Bob S


> On Feb 4, 2021, at 1:23 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Bob:
> 
> > I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
> > then save it when I close it
> 
> This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in....
> 
> I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
> I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
> (More on that later.)
> 
> > BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
> > (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
> > I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
> 
> So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
> You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
> (Tally: 3)
> 
> Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
> I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
> So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
> (Tally: "3+")
> 
> Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:
> 
> > If I use ?CloseStack? instead
> 
> Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
> The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.
> 
> Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
> 3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
> But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)
> 
> I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
> (But if one will work, use one.)
> 
> > You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
> > click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.
> 
> Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
> and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!
> 
> But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
> the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
> It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
> (Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)
> 
> To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
> But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!
> 
> We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
> via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
> Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.
> 
> > I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.
> 
> I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
> If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
> (And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)
> 
> But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
> It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
> You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tore.nilsen at me.com  Thu Feb  4 17:50:45 2021
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:50:45 +0100
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <0EC86D60-8554-4E2B-B502-7BB355D7BD7C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <0cbbddda-132f-c21c-399b-f360c3d687bc@pair.com>
 <0EC86D60-8554-4E2B-B502-7BB355D7BD7C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F4DFEA0D-A666-4442-AEB9-23D7A9404053@me.com>

Performing the clean up in preOpenStack makes it happen before the stack is visible, at least according to the dictionary.

"Unlike openStack <>, preOpenStack handlers <> are executed <> before the stack window <> appears. Because of this, the preOpenStack handler <> is a good place to put code that adjusts the size, position, and appearance of objects <>; the changes are made before the stack <> appears."

My experience is that this is true.


Tore

> 4. feb. 2021 kl. 23:43 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thanks for the response Curry and Tore. 
> 
> The reason I clean up at close is because when I open the stack the next time I do not want to remains of what I was doing before to show. It?s a small point but it look cleaner if the first time opening the stack there is nothing in the fields. All attempts to hide the stack then clear it before making it visible have been iffy. 
> 
> I guess what I need is a message or series of messages that get generated BEFORE the stack is closed. 
> 
> I have this in the only card in my stack: 
> 
> on closeStackRequest
>   resetMainForm
>   save this stack
>   pass closeStackRequest ? this has a breakpoint
> end closeStackRequest
> 
> I have a breakpoint on the pass statement. When clicking the red dot I get asked if I want to save the stack. For whatever reason, for me the closeStackRequest is NOT getting sent to the current card! 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 1:23 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Bob:
>> 
>>> I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
>>> then save it when I close it
>> 
>> This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in....
>> 
>> I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
>> I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
>> (More on that later.)
>> 
>>> BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
>>> (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
>>> I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
>> 
>> So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
>> You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
>> (Tally: 3)
>> 
>> Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
>> I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
>> So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
>> (Tally: "3+")
>> 
>> Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:
>> 
>>> If I use ?CloseStack? instead
>> 
>> Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
>> The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.
>> 
>> Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
>> 3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
>> But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)
>> 
>> I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
>> (But if one will work, use one.)
>> 
>>> You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
>>> click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.
>> 
>> Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
>> and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!
>> 
>> But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
>> the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
>> It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
>> (Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)
>> 
>> To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
>> But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!
>> 
>> We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
>> via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
>> Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.
>> 
>>> I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.
>> 
>> I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
>> If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
>> (And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)
>> 
>> But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
>> It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
>> You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Custom Software Development
>> "Better Methods, Better Results"
>> LiveCode Training and Consulting
>> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb  4 17:52:53 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:52:53 -0600
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>

There used to be a gREV* global variable that tracked the dirty status and if the stack was 
dirty it put up the "do you want to save?" dialog. I can't find it now so something has 
changed. When it existed, you could toggle that variable via script and the IDE wouldn't bother 
you.

The IDE does pass the closeStackRequest to your stack after it checks the stack status. The 
docs are correct that you don't get that message when a script closes the stack but you can use 
closeStack instead; however, first we need to find out where that variable went to. It used to 
be in the globals pane of the message watcher, and I'd recognize it if I saw it, but I can't 
remember now what it was.

On 2/4/21 12:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> I know we have tread this ground before, but I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields), then save it when I close it BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar. I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
> 
> You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.
> 
> The dictionary reads,
> 
> The closeStackRequest message is only sent if the request to close a stack is initiated by the user (eg by clicking file -> close in the LiveCode menu). If the request is initiated from a script (eg "close this stack" ) then the closeStackRequest message is not sent.
> 
> Apparently clicking the red dot is not considered, ?initiated by the user.? It ought to be.
> 
> If I use ?CloseStack? instead, I cannot save the stack because a script is currently running, and I do not want to be presented with the dialog to save, do not save, or cancel. I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Feb  4 17:56:23 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:56:23 +0100
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <B982D627-A139-4A4A-9C9D-1E4C867273C2@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e0393eaf-5fb6-6c12-4b3e-389d38f50d74@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq9M21uVm+BKR2SL4ua13=e6R6NMvahRCGA76R9fSBcfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <B982D627-A139-4A4A-9C9D-1E4C867273C2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1AD61A79-2FEC-4B96-AF88-6D2C20D673AE@m-r-d.de>

Marty, 
do you experience this problem  also with your demo stack and Xcode 11.3? If so, could you create a new standalone from that demo stack and upload it somewhere, so i could download it and try to code sign it here?

Btw. Are you code signing for web distribution or Apple store?

Regards,

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 04.02.2021 um 23:28 schrieb Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I just updated to Xcode 11.3 and still have the issue. With revzip included, building with 9.6.2 it works fine *until* I codesign - either with the Levure app packager or with AppWrapper (tried versions 3 and 4) As soon as it starts to launch it crashes. If I take out revzip the app will open fine when code signed.
> 
> If rev zip was damaged it would not work in the unsigned app. Anything else that I should check? This is really frustrating.
> 
> Marty
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 1:09 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for testing Matthias :)
>> 
>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, 23:08 Paul Dupuis via use-livecode, <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I should have added that we sign with entitlements (the same set LC uses)
>>> 
>>> On 2/4/2021 3:56 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> @Marty
>>>> 
>>>> If you have not done it already, it might be worth adding entitlements to
>>>> the codesign.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps
>>>> 
>>>> I do not think it is the Xcode version that is the problem. I am on
>>> Mojave
>>>> as well, so I can do a quick test if you send me the standalone that
>>>> crashes. Also make sure you attach the stack to the bug report :)
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Panos
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:47, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we
>>>>> codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via
>>>>>> Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple
>>>>>> without problems.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
>>>>>>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Marty
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
>>>>>>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> marty
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode
>>>>>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
>>>>>>>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
>>>>>>>>> framework.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
>>>>>>>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am
>>>>>>>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mark Talluto
>>>>>>>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>>>>>>>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>>>>>>>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 18:10:11 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:10:11 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <B181BC34-61E2-46EA-8F23-53536EC723BD@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks for the reply Jacque. I ran the message watcher while clicking the red dot. None of the messages that appear have anything to do with closing the stack.

Here?s what I came up with. The closeStackRequest is NOT getting sent to the current card as the dictionary indicates, although the target IS the current card. It DOES get sent to the stack though. So I put this in the stack script and it DOES work with the red dot.

on closeStackRequest
   if the short name of the target is "Main? then ? I have substacks but no other cards called Main
      dispatch resetMainForm to the target
   end if

   save this stack
   pass closeStackRequest
END closeStackRequest

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:52 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

There used to be a gREV* global variable that tracked the dirty status and if the stack was dirty it put up the "do you want to save?" dialog. I can't find it now so something has changed. When it existed, you could toggle that variable via script and the IDE wouldn't bother you.

The IDE does pass the closeStackRequest to your stack after it checks the stack status. The docs are correct that you don't get that message when a script closes the stack but you can use closeStack instead; however, first we need to find out where that variable went to. It used to be in the globals pane of the message watcher, and I'd recognize it if I saw it, but I can't remember now what it was.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 18:13:39 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:13:39 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <F4DFEA0D-A666-4442-AEB9-23D7A9404053@me.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <0cbbddda-132f-c21c-399b-f360c3d687bc@pair.com>
 <0EC86D60-8554-4E2B-B502-7BB355D7BD7C@iotecdigital.com>
 <F4DFEA0D-A666-4442-AEB9-23D7A9404053@me.com>
Message-ID: <241942A8-424E-4567-88CE-3CD20CB561CA@iotecdigital.com>

It?s my understanding that I am unable to reference objects on a card of a stack in a preOpenStack handler. Referencing an object in the stack opens the stack triggering a race condition which continually triggers preOpenStack. That is from memory though.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:50 PM, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Performing the clean up in preOpenStack makes it happen before the stack is visible, at least according to the dictionary.

"Unlike openStack <>, preOpenStack handlers <> are executed <> before the stack window <> appears. Because of this, the preOpenStack handler <> is a good place to put code that adjusts the size, position, and appearance of objects <>; the changes are made before the stack <> appears."

My experience is that this is true.


Tore


From curry at pair.com  Thu Feb  4 18:17:50 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 18:17:50 -0500
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <9BF6645B-0458-4F09-BBBE-507291904EE3@me.com>
References: <9BF6645B-0458-4F09-BBBE-507291904EE3@me.com>
Message-ID: <4ca87d08-a2ef-81ea-ae1c-b7ab39b9ec5f@pair.com>


Tore:

 > I do not do any clean up at closing time. Instead I execute
 > the necessary routines as part of a preOpenStack handler.
 > I then do not have to consider which way the stack was closed.

Yes! Like you, for cleanup I also avoid that how-closed consideration.
Much easier to have a simpler single trap.

Yet I ALSO avoid saving user/test data!
That keeps my files smaller in their saved state.

And if opened with messages off, still cleaner....

Bob:

 > when I open the stack the next time I do not want to
 > remains of what I was doing before to show.

You can! Several routes to choose. Presenting the easiest.

Me again:

 > I perform cleanup when I save.

In other words, try saveStackRequest!
Don't "save" with your own code; let LC IDE do that.
Just perform your cleanup, then pass.
That way your cleaned-up stack is reliably saved.

You get the best of both - simple trap, reliable.

(However, your original method would work - if you finish it!
And while typing this, I see you already made progress; that's good.)

Tore again:

 > By keeping it modular, the clean up script can also
 > be started from other handlers if necessary.

Agreed!
Modularity increases performance, maintainability, and freedom.
Can't stress this enough.

Me again:

Don't think "clean up and save." Keep the twain separate.
I choose when to save, it's a conscious choice, and it fires my cleanup.
My stack is almost always saved clean.

Moreover I'm in the habit of saving (and backing up) BEFORE closing.
Habits are so important - they avoid needless suffering.

If I do forget my habit, the IDE will prompt me to save.
So I'm still OK - because I haven't disabled the system. It's my backup.
Nor do I rely primarily on that system. It's my backup. ;)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 18:28:55 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:28:55 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <4ca87d08-a2ef-81ea-ae1c-b7ab39b9ec5f@pair.com>
References: <9BF6645B-0458-4F09-BBBE-507291904EE3@me.com>
 <4ca87d08-a2ef-81ea-ae1c-b7ab39b9ec5f@pair.com>
Message-ID: <2E58B380-9EDF-4A64-8849-35426ABBE1BD@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Curry. That works for the IDE, but not for the standalone. End Users do not save their stacks, as I give them no way to do so. The stacks in my app perform two functions: An interface to control the app and also a place to store persistent data i.e. properties. If a user force-quits my app for any reason, saving upon closing a sub stack ensures those updated properties are retained.

I could test for the IDE I know, but for my purposes, having lost so much form modifications in the past due to some kind of race condition or IDE lock up, I auto-save regularly, not just when I close a stack.

As an aside, this is what was slowing my Windows Standalones down so much. It has been well documented that the performance of saving a stack (especially one as complex as mine) in Windows is fairly oppressive. In a Windows Standalone I have to trap most of the times I save a stack, allowing only for saving upon close.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Me again:

Don't think "clean up and save." Keep the twain separate.
I choose when to save, it's a conscious choice, and it fires my cleanup.
My stack is almost always saved clean.



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 18:48:06 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:48:06 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <B181BC34-61E2-46EA-8F23-53536EC723BD@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
 <B181BC34-61E2-46EA-8F23-53536EC723BD@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <4E872214-2DAE-4CA4-9D81-38F151ED6257@iotecdigital.com>

<sigh> Back to the drawing board. This does NOT work when clicking the red dot.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 3:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Thanks for the reply Jacque. I ran the message watcher while clicking the red dot. None of the messages that appear have anything to do with closing the stack.

Here?s what I came up with. The closeStackRequest is NOT getting sent to the current card as the dictionary indicates, although the target IS the current card. It DOES get sent to the stack though. So I put this in the stack script and it DOES work with the red dot.

on closeStackRequest
  if the short name of the target is "Main? then ? I have substacks but no other cards called Main
     dispatch resetMainForm to the target
  end if

  save this stack
  pass closeStackRequest
END closeStackRequest

Bob S


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Feb  4 18:53:54 2021
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 18:53:54 -0500
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>

Is this what you're looking for?

revIDESetEdited pStackName
revIDESetUnedited pStackName

Interrogate it with: revIDEStackIsEdited pStackName

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net



-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 5:53 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: Close Stack Cleanup

There used to be a gREV* global variable that tracked the dirty status and if the stack was dirty it put up the "do you want to save?" dialog. I can't find it now so something has changed. When it existed, you could toggle that variable via script and the IDE wouldn't bother you.

The IDE does pass the closeStackRequest to your stack after it checks the stack status. The docs are correct that you don't get that message when a script closes the stack but you can use closeStack instead; however, first we need to find out where that variable went to. It used to be in the globals pane of the message watcher, and I'd recognize it if I saw it, but I can't remember now what it was.

On 2/4/21 12:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> I know we have tread this ground before, but I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields), then save it when I close it BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar. I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
> 
> You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.
> 
> The dictionary reads,
> 
> The closeStackRequest message is only sent if the request to close a stack is initiated by the user (eg by clicking file -> close in the LiveCode menu). If the request is initiated from a script (eg "close this stack" ) then the closeStackRequest message is not sent.
> 
> Apparently clicking the red dot is not considered, ?initiated by the user.? It ought to be.
> 
> If I use ?CloseStack? instead, I cannot save the stack because a script is currently running, and I do not want to be presented with the dialog to save, do not save, or cancel. I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 19:05:30 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 00:05:30 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
 <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
Message-ID: <92522653-D78C-44A7-A7DE-D8E49FC4B43C@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Ralph. Actually what I am looking for is a message that gets sent when the close button of a window gets clicked. The Message Watcher seems to indicate not (or rather fails to indicate). I think this is a bug, or at least an oversight. This means that anyone can close a stack, and closeStackRequest will not get triggered. This seems contrary to what closeStackRequest is for.

I will submit a feature request, but I suspect it?s going to be low on the totem pole.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 3:53 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Is this what you're looking for?

revIDESetEdited pStackName
revIDESetUnedited pStackName

Interrogate it with: revIDEStackIsEdited pStackName

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net<mailto:rdimola at evergreeninfo.net>


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Feb  4 19:19:43 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 00:19:43 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <92522653-D78C-44A7-A7DE-D8E49FC4B43C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
 <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
 <92522653-D78C-44A7-A7DE-D8E49FC4B43C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1B0A2BE5-2FBE-4432-9CFE-F69B5A7772B3@iotecdigital.com>

NVM I found this bug has already been submitted? IN 2008! LOL! https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4617 Hey Kevin! <poke>

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 4:05 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Thanks Ralph. Actually what I am looking for is a message that gets sent when the close button of a window gets clicked. The Message Watcher seems to indicate not (or rather fails to indicate). I think this is a bug, or at least an oversight. This means that anyone can close a stack, and closeStackRequest will not get triggered. This seems contrary to what closeStackRequest is for.

I will submit a feature request, but I suspect it?s going to be low on the totem pole.

Bob S


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu Feb  4 20:22:43 2021
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 17:22:43 -0800
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <1B0A2BE5-2FBE-4432-9CFE-F69B5A7772B3@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
 <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
 <92522653-D78C-44A7-A7DE-D8E49FC4B43C@iotecdigital.com>
 <1B0A2BE5-2FBE-4432-9CFE-F69B5A7772B3@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <b6182556-8e53-f270-fba2-4069d677b624@sonic.net>

On 2/4/21 4:19 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> NVM I found this bug has already been submitted? IN 2008! LOL! https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4617 Hey Kevin! <poke>

Looking at that, here's a (completely untested) suggestion:

The revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest handler is in the IDE backscript, so 
it's ready to be overridden. If you don't override it then it executes a 
revSaveCheck before moving on. If you override this command then you 
might get what you want.

...at the risk of losing data...

so maybe in your stack script you have:
on revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest
   return "pass"
end revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest

That said, I agree with others that this isn't a Good Idea, and a 
cleaning routine in preOpenStack would do the trick nicely.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb  4 20:33:51 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 19:33:51 -0600
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
 <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
Message-ID: <1776fd2f018.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

That looks like it would work though it isn't the variable I remember. 
Probably that's what changed. Nice sleuthing.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 4, 2021 5:52:14 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is this what you're looking for?
>
> revIDESetEdited pStackName
> revIDESetUnedited pStackName
>
> Interrogate it with: revIDEStackIsEdited pStackName
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
> Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 5:53 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: J. Landman Gay
> Subject: Re: Close Stack Cleanup
>
> There used to be a gREV* global variable that tracked the dirty status and 
> if the stack was dirty it put up the "do you want to save?" dialog. I can't 
> find it now so something has changed. When it existed, you could toggle 
> that variable via script and the IDE wouldn't bother you.
>
> The IDE does pass the closeStackRequest to your stack after it checks the 
> stack status. The docs are correct that you don't get that message when a 
> script closes the stack but you can use closeStack instead; however, first 
> we need to find out where that variable went to. It used to be in the 
> globals pane of the message watcher, and I'd recognize it if I saw it, but 
> I can't remember now what it was.
>
> On 2/4/21 12:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I know we have tread this ground before, but I am trying to clean up my 
>> stack (i.e. clear the fields), then save it when I close it BY ANY MEANS. 
>> That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot (of for WIN users 
>> the red X) in the title bar. I need this to work in the IDE as well as in 
>> standalone.
>>
>> You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I click the red dot or X. 
>> You would be mistaken.
>>
>> The dictionary reads,
>>
>> The closeStackRequest message is only sent if the request to close a stack 
>> is initiated by the user (eg by clicking file -> close in the LiveCode 
>> menu). If the request is initiated from a script (eg "close this stack" ) 
>> then the closeStackRequest message is not sent.
>>
>> Apparently clicking the red dot is not considered, ?initiated by the user.? 
>> It ought to be.
>>
>> If I use ?CloseStack? instead, I cannot save the stack because a script is 
>> currently running, and I do not want to be presented with the dialog to 
>> save, do not save, or cancel. I just want it to be saved. I can force quit 
>> if I mess something up.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb  4 20:36:34 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 19:36:34 -0600
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <92522653-D78C-44A7-A7DE-D8E49FC4B43C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
 <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
 <92522653-D78C-44A7-A7DE-D8E49FC4B43C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1776fd568e8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I did a test before answering and the message was sent to the card of my 
otherwise blank stack, after dismissing the IDE dialog. That makes me think 
something is going on with your particular stack. What happens if you try 
it with a plain new stack?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 4, 2021 6:07:32 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Ralph. Actually what I am looking for is a message that gets sent 
> when the close button of a window gets clicked. The Message Watcher seems 
> to indicate not (or rather fails to indicate). I think this is a bug, or at 
> least an oversight. This means that anyone can close a stack, and 
> closeStackRequest will not get triggered. This seems contrary to what 
> closeStackRequest is for.
>
> I will submit a feature request, but I suspect it?s going to be low on the 
> totem pole.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2021, at 3:53 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>
> Is this what you're looking for?
>
> revIDESetEdited pStackName
> revIDESetUnedited pStackName
>
> Interrogate it with: revIDEStackIsEdited pStackName
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net<mailto:rdimola at evergreeninfo.net>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From curry at pair.com  Thu Feb  4 21:33:17 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:33:17 -0500
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <b6182556-8e53-f270-fba2-4069d677b624@sonic.net>
References: <b6182556-8e53-f270-fba2-4069d677b624@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <378562a1-99c3-6e02-452a-6e6e1d31e22d@pair.com>


Mark:
 > I agree with others that this isn't a Good Idea,
 > and a cleaning routine in preOpenStack would do the trick nicely.

Amen, Brother Mark! Good Idea to avoid Bad Habits.
(Agreed, except a small but crucial difference in details....)

As Tore said:
 > execute the necessary routines as part of a preOpenStack handler

Again, with a small but important difference:

The preOpenStack handler is NOT ideal for this type of cleanup.
"Literally, to "clear the fields" of a stack."
(And now we also know, a "complex" stack.)
That is NOT something best done in preOpenStack.

A complex stack usually has multiple cards.
The user is going from one card to the other - perhaps more than once.
You need this type of cleanup triggered by preOpenCard!
Whereas preOpenStack and startup are better for general init.
Keep it modular; preOpenCard and Clear Form can call the same code.

(You both already probably know that and do it.
Just making an explicit point for other readers who are learning.
People always tell me things they read here! They take it to heart.)

If you clean up fields in preOpenCard, you're ready for the end user.
But your saved stack may be very BLOATED at times!
Large amount data in a field, image, etc.

(And yes, in these days of interim-capacity SSDs, disk space matters.
Your stack will also be saved in a more cluttered state.)

To solve that easily, as I've said: use saveStackRequest!

That way your stack is SAVED clean and non-bloated.
You can freely test larger data samples.
Stacks are small for sharing within your dev team.

Your users will NEVER see your test data entries.
(Even if a preOpenX handler fails due to runtime bug,
which I've seen happen fairly often in stacks people make!
Potential embarrassments automatically averted.)
It's also perfect for simpler stacks with one card.

Bob:
 > Back to the drawing board.

Not if you take the advice of myself and others!
Proven solutions, well-tested over time, reliable, that work TODAY.
(But I do like the IDE bug report; the IDE tramples some messages.)
Good topic! People will learn from it. Thanks for starting it.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu Feb  4 21:55:49 2021
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 18:55:49 -0800
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <378562a1-99c3-6e02-452a-6e6e1d31e22d@pair.com>
References: <b6182556-8e53-f270-fba2-4069d677b624@sonic.net>
 <378562a1-99c3-6e02-452a-6e6e1d31e22d@pair.com>
Message-ID: <6e74c55c-c514-3c6b-21e5-0e3c98435286@sonic.net>

On 2/4/21 6:33 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:

> The preOpenStack handler is NOT ideal for this type of cleanup.
> "Literally, to "clear the fields" of a stack."
> (And now we also know, a "complex" stack.)
> That is NOT something best done in preOpenStack.
> 
> A complex stack usually has multiple cards.
> The user is going from one card to the other - perhaps more than once.
> You need this type of cleanup triggered by preOpenCard!
> Whereas preOpenStack and startup are better for general init.
> Keep it modular; preOpenCard and Clear Form can call the same code.

Ah... quite right. I do stand corrected there.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From curry at pair.com  Thu Feb  4 23:54:16 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:54:16 -0500
Subject: Double sided PDF Problem
In-Reply-To: <bb081040-956c-5368-d6a5-352b8730d921@fourthworld.com>
References: <bb081040-956c-5368-d6a5-352b8730d921@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <896a73d7-1f89-7aeb-d940-b007ad39908e@pair.com>


Richard:

 > they still offer a business card size with rounded corners -
 > I'm taking it as a challenge to bring the card content
 > down to just the essentials. ;)
 > https://www.avery.com/products/cards/88220

Thanks for that link - good idea! Mini cards look great.

I doubt my own hands can manipulate that small size, though.
Maybe I'll use printed labels on blank playing cards for creative stage.
Then order the final design from a pro printing service.

Paul:

 > I currently work for the company that owns that brand.

That's neat! I enjoyed your comments.

BTW, encourage 'em to restock some products like #4785!
(COVID may have increased the need for both DIY games and Ed, right?)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Feb  5 00:04:02 2021
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:04:02 -0600
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <1c73ffac-f1ce-f26f-9808-7d6abf31d559@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAEqiJnmMWDU-s9OWpE_2r-MWz11AdvUJB=83uNW2_qBkz-+ekQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1c73ffac-f1ce-f26f-9808-7d6abf31d559@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG9ZHFQeXtTMDw0Ta5mxrN2QyG3wY9BbdCB0CuuyXVKGhQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 4:25 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> JeeJeeStudio wrote:
>
>  > Panos wrote:
>  >> This bug report contains a workaround for smooth scrolling - hope it
>  >> helps.
>  >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19759
>  >
>  >
>  > Maybe it's me but i don't see any difference in scrolling between the
>  > left and right on win10
>
> The original description of the problem here lacks specificity. It's not
> just any scrolling that is affected, but scrolling that happens in
> response to a scroll wheel or trackpad gestures.
>
> The script Panos posted in the bug report has two gradations of scroll
> increment, based on the interval between keydown messages corresponding
> to the scroll wheel/trackpad gesture.
>

I came across this thread and thought I would add an additional comment.
The scrolling can be improved further by using the scroll event values
provided by the operating system.

On macOS it is simple enough to get the true scroll values from the scroll
event using NSEvent.scrollingDeltaX and NSEvent.scrollingDeltaY. It is
possible to get those values using LCB as demonstrated in the
mac_scroll_wheel.lcb extension that is included with the DataView control
I've made available. Here is a link to the source code:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/blob/develop/mac_scroll_wheel.lcb

Anyone who is interested and running macOS can download the compiled
version of the extension and test it out in the sample stack.

1) Visit the following link and click the "Download" button

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/blob/develop/mac_scroll_wheel.lcm

2) Then run this in the Message Box and select the .lcm file to load it:

answer file "Select Extension";load extension from file it;put the result

3) Add this script to any field you want to test with:

on rawKeyDown pKey

  if pKey = "65308" or pKey = "65309" then
    set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me - item 2 of
macCurrentEventScrollValues(the effective linesize of me)
  else
    pass rawKeyDown
  end if

end rawKeyDown

On my computer I see the best results in the test stack from the bug report
using this method. Ideally any engine improvements would tap into the
scroll wheel values provided by the OS.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps


From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Fri Feb  5 05:09:12 2021
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 10:09:12 +0000
Subject: Smooth scrolling
Message-ID: <BE69C26F-607A-48CE-BEB0-F3949C69D009@uni-wh.de>

> Trevor wrote
>

> On macOS it is simple enough to get the true scroll values from the scroll
> event using NSEvent.scrollingDeltaX and NSEvent.scrollingDeltaY. It is
> possible to get those values using LCB as demonstrated in the
> mac_scroll_wheel.lcb extension that is included with the DataView control
> I've made available. Here is a link to the source code:
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/blob/develop/mac_scroll_wheel.lcb


> .....
> Ideally any engine improvements would tap into the

> scroll wheel values provided by the OS.

Thank you Trevor for making this available. After testing your library i realize what an improvement it is.
And I agree that "ideally any engine improvents would tap into the scroll wheel values provided by the OS"


I don't see any difference regarding lineSize. Maybe "ObjC_NSEventHasPreciseScrollingDeltas" is true.
Anyway in the comments of the LCB file you mention "row height"
Do you mean "effectiv lineSize" (synonym of borderSize) or "effective textHeight"?

I added hScroll to your script (again this is Mac only and needs Trevor's library installed)


-------------------------------------------
on rawKeyDown pKey
   -- if the optionKey is down then pass rawKeyDown -- just to test scrolling of LC and library
   if pKey = "65308" or pKey = "65309" then
      set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me \
       - item 2 of macCurrentEventScrollValues(the effective linesize of me)
   else if pKey is in "65310,65311" and the hScrollbar of me then
      set the hscroll of me to the hscroll of me  \
      - item 1 of macCurrentEventScrollValues(the effective linesize of me)
   else
      pass rawKeyDown
   end if
end rawKeyDown
--------------------------------------------

Kind regards
Bernd



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Feb  5 14:19:26 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 19:19:26 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <6e74c55c-c514-3c6b-21e5-0e3c98435286@sonic.net>
References: <b6182556-8e53-f270-fba2-4069d677b624@sonic.net>
 <378562a1-99c3-6e02-452a-6e6e1d31e22d@pair.com>
 <6e74c55c-c514-3c6b-21e5-0e3c98435286@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <D1623DEE-0B2C-4F0D-B5FD-A38B9DE9020C@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks all for your suggestions. I will try various methods. 

As to the propriety of certain methods, I suppose in answer to why do it that way, to quote another thread, ?Because we can!? :-)

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Feb  5 14:22:50 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 19:22:50 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <1776fd568e8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
 <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
 <92522653-D78C-44A7-A7DE-D8E49FC4B43C@iotecdigital.com>
 <1776fd568e8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C7B04455-1561-4F38-844D-61FD9887336A@iotecdigital.com>

Not sure. If the stack is ?dirty? I get the save dialog BEFORE closeStackRequest, which is what I am trying to avoid.

To others, I know this is not a good idea in general, but since there have been at least 2 versions that were unstable that crash to desktops were not uncommon, and after losing so much data, I save frequently, and auto save whenever I close a sub stack.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

I did a test before answering and the message was sent to the card of my otherwise blank stack, after dismissing the IDE dialog. That makes me think something is going on with your particular stack. What happens if you try it with a plain new stack?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Feb  5 14:28:55 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 19:28:55 +0000
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <b6182556-8e53-f270-fba2-4069d677b624@sonic.net>
References: <C3314707-DD32-48C0-87CC-AC43C476C79B@iotecdigital.com>
 <5402cddb-2be7-2b05-9ae2-1a71c1ed2773@hyperactivesw.com>
 <004201d6fb51$0233a4b0$069aee10$@net>
 <92522653-D78C-44A7-A7DE-D8E49FC4B43C@iotecdigital.com>
 <1B0A2BE5-2FBE-4432-9CFE-F69B5A7772B3@iotecdigital.com>
 <b6182556-8e53-f270-fba2-4069d677b624@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <6AE89C6E-709A-4113-82F6-4CA7D4C5F844@iotecdigital.com>

Nice try but sadly it does not work. The message does not even get sent to the stack script.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:22 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

On 2/4/21 4:19 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
NVM I found this bug has already been submitted? IN 2008! LOL! https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4617 Hey Kevin! <poke>

Looking at that, here's a (completely untested) suggestion:

The revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest handler is in the IDE backscript, so it's ready to be overridden. If you don't override it then it executes a revSaveCheck before moving on. If you override this command then you might get what you want.

...at the risk of losing data...

so maybe in your stack script you have:
on revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest
 return "pass"
end revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest

That said, I agree with others that this isn't a Good Idea, and a cleaning routine in preOpenStack would do the trick nicely.

--
Mark Wieder
ahsoftware at gmail.com<mailto:ahsoftware at gmail.com>


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:24:50 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 12:24:50 -0800
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <B982D627-A139-4A4A-9C9D-1E4C867273C2@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e0393eaf-5fb6-6c12-4b3e-389d38f50d74@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq9M21uVm+BKR2SL4ua13=e6R6NMvahRCGA76R9fSBcfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <B982D627-A139-4A4A-9C9D-1E4C867273C2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CFD1E9F7-9C0F-4009-B5C2-2CBB76F1687E@gmail.com>

After much hair pulling and some help from Matthias I seem to have this solved. It appears that starting with LC 9.6.2 ?entitlements? are needed even for web deployment (at least in the case of including revzip). The really weird part of this was if I swapped in the revzip bundle from 9.6.1 after building the standalone then entitlements were not needed. 

So for anyone else who runs into this, you can use the same entitlements that Livecode uses (in an entitlements.plist file):

<dict>
 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.allow-jit</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.allow-unsigned-executable-memory</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.allow-dyld-environment-variables</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.disable-library-validation</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.disable-executable-page-protection</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.device.audio-input</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.device.camera</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.personal-information.location</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.personal-information.addressbook</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.personal-information.photos-library</key>
 	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.security.automation.apple-events</key>
 	<true/>
 </dict> 

In Levure I used the same data above but saved into a ?my app name.entitlements? file and then configured the app.yml file appropriately

In AppWrapper you need to set the the following under Hardened Runtime:
Allow Execution of JIT-complied code
Allow Unsigned executable memory
Allow DYLD environment variables
Disable library validation
Disable executable memory protection

Marty


> On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:28 PM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just updated to Xcode 11.3 and still have the issue. With revzip included, building with 9.6.2 it works fine *until* I codesign - either with the Levure app packager or with AppWrapper (tried versions 3 and 4) As soon as it starts to launch it crashes. If I take out revzip the app will open fine when code signed.
> 
> If rev zip was damaged it would not work in the unsigned app. Anything else that I should check? This is really frustrating.
> 
> Marty
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 1:09 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for testing Matthias :)
>> 
>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, 23:08 Paul Dupuis via use-livecode, <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I should have added that we sign with entitlements (the same set LC uses)
>>> 
>>> On 2/4/2021 3:56 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> @Marty
>>>> 
>>>> If you have not done it already, it might be worth adding entitlements to
>>>> the codesign.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps
>>>> 
>>>> I do not think it is the Xcode version that is the problem. I am on
>>> Mojave
>>>> as well, so I can do a quick test if you send me the standalone that
>>>> crashes. Also make sure you attach the stack to the bug report :)
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Panos
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:47, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we
>>>>> codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via
>>>>>> Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple
>>>>>> without problems.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
>>>>>>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Marty
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
>>>>>>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> marty
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode
>>>>>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
>>>>>>>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
>>>>>>>>> framework.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
>>>>>>>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am
>>>>>>>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mark Talluto
>>>>>>>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>>>>>>>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>>>>>>>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Feb  5 16:57:42 2021
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 15:57:42 -0600
Subject: Smooth scrolling
In-Reply-To: <BE69C26F-607A-48CE-BEB0-F3949C69D009@uni-wh.de>
References: <BE69C26F-607A-48CE-BEB0-F3949C69D009@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-MPPzM65+knx9zEUDDP4EpersQ2iAjpj0mmv28jvpcBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 4:10 AM Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you Trevor for making this available. After testing your library i
> realize what an improvement it is.
> And I agree that "ideally any engine improvents would tap into the scroll
> wheel values provided by the OS"
>
> I don't see any difference regarding lineSize. Maybe
> "ObjC_NSEventHasPreciseScrollingDeltas" is true.
> Anyway in the comments of the LCB file you mention "row height"
> Do you mean "effectiv lineSize" (synonym of borderSize) or "effective
> textHeight"?
>

Hi Bernd,

Glad you like it. I originally wrote the extension for use with the
DataView (a more modern DataGrid) which has a "row" concept rather than a
"line" concept. I hadn't applied it to fields before putting together the
test yesterday. You are correct, if should be `textHeight`, not `lineSize`,
in the script.


> I added hScroll to your script (again this is Mac only and needs Trevor's
> library installed)
>
> -------------------------------------------
> on rawKeyDown pKey
>    -- if the optionKey is down then pass rawKeyDown -- just to test
> scrolling of LC and library
>    if pKey = "65308" or pKey = "65309" then
>       set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me \
>        - item 2 of macCurrentEventScrollValues(the effective linesize of
> me)
>    else if pKey is in "65310,65311" and the hScrollbar of me then
>       set the hscroll of me to the hscroll of me  \
>       - item 1 of macCurrentEventScrollValues(the effective linesize of me)
>    else
>       pass rawKeyDown
>    end if
> end rawKeyDown
> --------------------------------------------
>

Nice addition!

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Feb  5 17:00:15 2021
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 16:00:15 -0600
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <CFD1E9F7-9C0F-4009-B5C2-2CBB76F1687E@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e0393eaf-5fb6-6c12-4b3e-389d38f50d74@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq9M21uVm+BKR2SL4ua13=e6R6NMvahRCGA76R9fSBcfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <B982D627-A139-4A4A-9C9D-1E4C867273C2@gmail.com>
 <CFD1E9F7-9C0F-4009-B5C2-2CBB76F1687E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG9VYX4nN0N8mWWdeK2iq4pcv=oVUNfAUXGfU+d+2--LsA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 2:25 PM Marty Knapp via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> After much hair pulling and some help from Matthias I seem to have this
> solved. It appears that starting with LC 9.6.2 ?entitlements? are needed
> even for web deployment (at least in the case of including revzip). The
> really weird part of this was if I swapped in the revzip bundle from 9.6.1
> after building the standalone then entitlements were not needed.
>
> So for anyone else who runs into this, you can use the same entitlements
> that Livecode uses (in an entitlements.plist file):
>

Thanks for sharing Marty. I wonder if this is why I was having SSL issues
with the standalone I built with 9.6.2? I'll play around with the
entitlements and see if that fixes it.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Feb  5 18:59:55 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 00:59:55 +0100
Subject: Codesigning & notarizing
In-Reply-To: <CFD1E9F7-9C0F-4009-B5C2-2CBB76F1687E@gmail.com>
References: <1FEF9ED0-9DC7-40DA-94EB-108990CB29C6@gmail.com>
 <17375DE0-9B39-4768-9515-01C3E34EDEDB@canelasoftware.com>
 <24AED79E-678A-48E8-989F-F718B1D93E5D@gmail.com>
 <A9C5001F-4656-4E11-BAF2-F7752723C6FC@canelasoftware.com>
 <C5F0A850-29E9-4CEB-8B9A-172C6A584ED4@gmail.com>
 <77B13A1B-C28A-4648-9659-55CCA2B613EF@gmail.com>
 <d0a3296b-161e-a61a-c616-0452c5a553b0@researchware.com>
 <14a09d89-2659-0d05-c398-0965bc60b090@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq_gG-4JePYr-34A89oNmcLNrcdUoDPYZuhV5jG27h_r=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e0393eaf-5fb6-6c12-4b3e-389d38f50d74@researchware.com>
 <CA+JfEq9M21uVm+BKR2SL4ua13=e6R6NMvahRCGA76R9fSBcfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <B982D627-A139-4A4A-9C9D-1E4C867273C2@gmail.com>
 <CFD1E9F7-9C0F-4009-B5C2-2CBB76F1687E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1137CA5-2CFE-4F30-844C-EB4CA9987BA4@m-r-d.de>

@Marty,

Great to hear that you finally got it working.

What i do not understand is why the code signed (without entitlements) sample standalone did run w/o crashing here, but on your Macs it crashed, although we are both using the same macOS version.
Anyway, using entitlements for code signing is recommended and easy to manage.

Matthias



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 05.02.2021 um 21:24 schrieb Marty Knapp via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> After much hair pulling and some help from Matthias I seem to have this solved. It appears that starting with LC 9.6.2 ?entitlements? are needed even for web deployment (at least in the case of including revzip). The really weird part of this was if I swapped in the revzip bundle from 9.6.1 after building the standalone then entitlements were not needed. 
> 
> So for anyone else who runs into this, you can use the same entitlements that Livecode uses (in an entitlements.plist file):
> 
> <dict>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.allow-jit</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.allow-unsigned-executable-memory</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.allow-dyld-environment-variables</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.disable-library-validation</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.cs.disable-executable-page-protection</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.device.audio-input</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.device.camera</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.personal-information.location</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.personal-information.addressbook</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.personal-information.photos-library</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>com.apple.security.automation.apple-events</key>
> 	<true/>
> </dict> 
> 
> In Levure I used the same data above but saved into a ?my app name.entitlements? file and then configured the app.yml file appropriately
> 
> In AppWrapper you need to set the the following under Hardened Runtime:
> Allow Execution of JIT-complied code
> Allow Unsigned executable memory
> Allow DYLD environment variables
> Disable library validation
> Disable executable memory protection
> 
> Marty
> 
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:28 PM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I just updated to Xcode 11.3 and still have the issue. With revzip included, building with 9.6.2 it works fine *until* I codesign - either with the Levure app packager or with AppWrapper (tried versions 3 and 4) As soon as it starts to launch it crashes. If I take out revzip the app will open fine when code signed.
>> 
>> If rev zip was damaged it would not work in the unsigned app. Anything else that I should check? This is really frustrating.
>> 
>> Marty
>> 
>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 1:09 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for testing Matthias :)
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, 23:08 Paul Dupuis via use-livecode, <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I should have added that we sign with entitlements (the same set LC uses)
>>>> 
>>>> On 2/4/2021 3:56 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> @Marty
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have not done it already, it might be worth adding entitlements to
>>>>> the codesign.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1293515-entitlements-for-signed-and-notarized-apps
>>>>> 
>>>>> I do not think it is the Xcode version that is the problem. I am on
>>>> Mojave
>>>>> as well, so I can do a quick test if you send me the standalone that
>>>>> crashes. Also make sure you attach the stack to the bug report :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> Panos
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 22:47, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I should add, we're not using Levure. We are using LC9.6.2rc2, we
>>>>>> codesign via Terminal on Mohave using Xcode 10.2.1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/4/2021 3:37 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>> FYI - Our App includes the revZIP library. We codesign deep via
>>>>>>> Terminal command and get no crashes. Codesign, notarize, and staple
>>>>>>> without problems.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/4/2021 2:40 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>>> Re: building a standalone in LC 9.6.2 rc2 with the ?Revolution Zip?
>>>>>>>> library (crashes when codesigned)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just filed a bug report on this - 23083
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Marty
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I?ve narrowed this down to the ?Revolution Zip? library. If I leave
>>>>>>>>> that out of Inclusions, I can build in 9.6.2 and codesign and all is
>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> marty
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode
>>>>>>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Marty,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> My work is with LiveCode 9.6.2 rc2 and Xcode 11.3.1.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I have only a cursory understanding of Levure. From what I read,
>>>>>>>>>> Trevor has methods to codesign and even notarize inside of Levure?s
>>>>>>>>>> framework.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If your testing with a basic stack works as expected, maybe some
>>>>>>>>>> interaction is happening with the Levure Framework project. I am
>>>>>>>>>> certain Trevor knows best what may be happening here.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> When you find out, please post back what you learn.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Mark Talluto
>>>>>>>>>> livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
>>>>>>>>>> nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
>>>>>>>>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hakan at exformedia.se  Sat Feb  6 01:55:55 2021
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 07:55:55 +0100
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
References: <a9dff80c-0ce3-4ffd-92dd-cad3db148cad@Spark>
Message-ID: <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>

Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping every file out of existence.

Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?

:-H?kan


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 13:03:58 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 10:03:58 -0800
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
References: <a9dff80c-0ce3-4ffd-92dd-cad3db148cad@Spark>
 <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
Message-ID: <08C57667-6E12-47FA-A30E-1E43F6FAC076@gmail.com>

Just did a quick test on an LC app that uses visual effects and they are not working for me on Big Sur.

Marty

> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping every file out of existence.
> 
> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
> 
> :-H?kan



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Sat Feb  6 13:16:43 2021
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 10:16:43 -0800
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
References: <a9dff80c-0ce3-4ffd-92dd-cad3db148cad@Spark>
 <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
Message-ID: <903D6452-7AC0-4262-9F0D-56D9F866BEC8@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Hakan:
I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was working on previous versions.

Yes, please file a bug report.

Bill

> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping every file out of existence.
> 
> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
> 
> :-H?kan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/




From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Sat Feb  6 23:11:15 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi))
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 04:11:15 +0000
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <903D6452-7AC0-4262-9F0D-56D9F866BEC8@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <a9dff80c-0ce3-4ffd-92dd-cad3db148cad@Spark>
 <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
 <903D6452-7AC0-4262-9F0D-56D9F866BEC8@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSTEeHOTkLMhWbBOCZffLQMUcQeRypet21Tod+6g68wV6A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I just tested here in BigSur 11.2 and they work fine in both the IDE and
standalone. The only ones that do not work are the core image transitions
(with the exception of dissolve which, although having the same name, does
not appear to use the CI version of the effect).

I made a simple default stack with one button with this code:

on mouseUp pButtonNumber
   lock screen for visual effect
   set the backcolor of this card to (line random(552) of colornames())
   unlock screen with visual effect "dissolve"
end mouseUp

The standalone was set with all the default parameters and auto inclusions.

Sean

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 18:16, prothero--- via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hakan:
> I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was
> working on previous versions.
>
> Yes, please file a bug report.
>
> Bill
>
> > On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that
> work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just
> my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library
> and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also
> tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping
> every file out of existence.
> >
> > Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
> >
> > :-H?kan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From hakan at exformedia.se  Sun Feb  7 08:42:30 2021
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:42:30 +0100
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSTEeHOTkLMhWbBOCZffLQMUcQeRypet21Tod+6g68wV6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9dff80c-0ce3-4ffd-92dd-cad3db148cad@Spark>
 <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
 <903D6452-7AC0-4262-9F0D-56D9F866BEC8@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <CABRqQSTEeHOTkLMhWbBOCZffLQMUcQeRypet21Tod+6g68wV6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b4e7e7a-676a-4533-99e5-4bfd19fa8c44@Spark>

That is strange. As it worked for you Sean, what machine are you on? But, as we have several of us where it doesn?t work I filed a bug anyway:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23085

:-H?kan
On 7 Feb 2021, 05:12 +0100, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Hi all,
> I just tested here in BigSur 11.2 and they work fine in both the IDE and
> standalone. The only ones that do not work are the core image transitions
> (with the exception of dissolve which, although having the same name, does
> not appear to use the CI version of the effect).
>
> I made a simple default stack with one button with this code:
>
> on mouseUp pButtonNumber
> lock screen for visual effect
> set the backcolor of this card to (line random(552) of colornames())
> unlock screen with visual effect "dissolve"
> end mouseUp
>
> The standalone was set with all the default parameters and auto inclusions.
>
> Sean
>
> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 18:16, prothero--- via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hakan:
> > I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was
> > working on previous versions.
> >
> > Yes, please file a bug report.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > > On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that
> > work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just
> > my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library
> > and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also
> > tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping
> > every file out of existence.
> > >
> > > Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
> > >
> > > :-H?kan
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
> > University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
> > Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
> > http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From simon.schvartzman at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 12:34:39 2021
From: simon.schvartzman at gmail.com (Simon Schvartzman)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:34:39 -0300
Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 209, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1612717201.132523.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1612717201.132523.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <041735D9-8A73-41DC-89BC-A4BA048D9D19@gmail.com>

Great idea 

Simon Schvartzman
+ 55 11 98432 6293

Sent from my mobile device. 

> On 7 Feb 2021, at 14:00, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> ?Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to
>    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    use-livecode-owner at lists.runrev.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..."
> 
> 
> you can find the archives for this list at:
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/
> 
> and search them using this link:
> 
> http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: No visual effects on Big Sur? (Marty Knapp)
>   2. Re: No visual effects on Big Sur?
>      (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
>   3. Re: No visual effects on Big Sur? (Sean Cole (Pi))
>   4. Re: No visual effects on Big Sur? (hakan at exformedia.se)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 10:03:58 -0800
> From: Marty Knapp <martyknappster at gmail.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: No visual effects on Big Sur?
> Message-ID: <08C57667-6E12-47FA-A30E-1E43F6FAC076 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Just did a quick test on an LC app that uses visual effects and they are not working for me on Big Sur.
> 
> Marty
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping every file out of existence.
>> 
>> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
>> 
>> :-H?kan
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 10:16:43 -0800
> From: "prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org"
>    <prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org>
> To: JJS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: No visual effects on Big Sur?
> Message-ID:
>    <903D6452-7AC0-4262-9F0D-56D9F866BEC8 at earthlearningsolutions.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Hakan:
> I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was working on previous versions.
> 
> Yes, please file a bug report.
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping every file out of existence.
>> 
>> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
>> 
>> :-H?kan
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 04:11:15 +0000
> From: "Sean Cole (Pi)" <sean at pidigital.co.uk>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: No visual effects on Big Sur?
> Message-ID:
>    <CABRqQSTEeHOTkLMhWbBOCZffLQMUcQeRypet21Tod+6g68wV6A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Hi all,
> I just tested here in BigSur 11.2 and they work fine in both the IDE and
> standalone. The only ones that do not work are the core image transitions
> (with the exception of dissolve which, although having the same name, does
> not appear to use the CI version of the effect).
> 
> I made a simple default stack with one button with this code:
> 
> on mouseUp pButtonNumber
>   lock screen for visual effect
>   set the backcolor of this card to (line random(552) of colornames())
>   unlock screen with visual effect "dissolve"
> end mouseUp
> 
> The standalone was set with all the default parameters and auto inclusions.
> 
> Sean
> 
>> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 18:16, prothero--- via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hakan:
>> I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was
>> working on previous versions.
>> 
>> Yes, please file a bug report.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that
>> work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just
>> my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library
>> and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also
>> tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping
>> every file out of existence.
>>> 
>>> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
>>> 
>>> :-H?kan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
>> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
>> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:42:30 +0100
> From: hakan at exformedia.se
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: "Sean Cole (Pi)" <sean at pidigital.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: No visual effects on Big Sur?
> Message-ID: <9b4e7e7a-676a-4533-99e5-4bfd19fa8c44 at Spark>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> That is strange. As it worked for you Sean, what machine are you on? But, as we have several of us where it doesn?t work I filed a bug anyway:
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23085
> 
> :-H?kan
>> On 7 Feb 2021, 05:12 +0100, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just tested here in BigSur 11.2 and they work fine in both the IDE and
>> standalone. The only ones that do not work are the core image transitions
>> (with the exception of dissolve which, although having the same name, does
>> not appear to use the CI version of the effect).
>> 
>> I made a simple default stack with one button with this code:
>> 
>> on mouseUp pButtonNumber
>> lock screen for visual effect
>> set the backcolor of this card to (line random(552) of colornames())
>> unlock screen with visual effect "dissolve"
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> The standalone was set with all the default parameters and auto inclusions.
>> 
>> Sean
>> 
>> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 18:16, prothero--- via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hakan:
>>> I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was
>>> working on previous versions.
>>> 
>>> Yes, please file a bug report.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that
>>> work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just
>>> my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library
>>> and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also
>>> tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping
>>> every file out of existence.
>>>> 
>>>> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
>>>> 
>>>> :-H?kan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
>>> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
>>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 209, Issue 10
> *********************************************



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 05:28:12 2021
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 12:28:12 +0200
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <9b4e7e7a-676a-4533-99e5-4bfd19fa8c44@Spark>
References: <a9dff80c-0ce3-4ffd-92dd-cad3db148cad@Spark>
 <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
 <903D6452-7AC0-4262-9F0D-56D9F866BEC8@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <CABRqQSTEeHOTkLMhWbBOCZffLQMUcQeRypet21Tod+6g68wV6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <9b4e7e7a-676a-4533-99e5-4bfd19fa8c44@Spark>
Message-ID: <63079b5c-3451-1990-c828-69338a840684@gmail.com>

No joy over here:

LC 9.6.2 RC 2 / macOS 11.3 Beta 1

But this does work this way:

LC 8.2.0 DP 2 / macOS 11.3 Beta 1

So the problem may not lie with macOS.

On 7.02.21 15:42, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode wrote:
> That is strange. As it worked for you Sean, what machine are you on? But, as we have several of us where it doesn?t work I filed a bug anyway:
>
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23085
>
> :-H?kan
> On 7 Feb 2021, 05:12 +0100, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just tested here in BigSur 11.2 and they work fine in both the IDE and
>> standalone. The only ones that do not work are the core image transitions
>> (with the exception of dissolve which, although having the same name, does
>> not appear to use the CI version of the effect).
>>
>> I made a simple default stack with one button with this code:
>>
>> on mouseUp pButtonNumber
>> lock screen for visual effect
>> set the backcolor of this card to (line random(552) of colornames())
>> unlock screen with visual effect "dissolve"
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> The standalone was set with all the default parameters and auto inclusions.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 18:16, prothero--- via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hakan:
>>> I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was
>>> working on previous versions.
>>>
>>> Yes, please file a bug report.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that
>>> work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just
>>> my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library
>>> and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also
>>> tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping
>>> every file out of existence.
>>>> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
>>>>
>>>> :-H?kan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
>>> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
>>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Mon Feb  8 06:13:11 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi))
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 11:13:11 +0000
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <63079b5c-3451-1990-c828-69338a840684@gmail.com>
References: <a9dff80c-0ce3-4ffd-92dd-cad3db148cad@Spark>
 <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
 <903D6452-7AC0-4262-9F0D-56D9F866BEC8@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <CABRqQSTEeHOTkLMhWbBOCZffLQMUcQeRypet21Tod+6g68wV6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <9b4e7e7a-676a-4533-99e5-4bfd19fa8c44@Spark>
 <63079b5c-3451-1990-c828-69338a840684@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSR7L+t48819TTBUwpjDCQeoYhdh4bMYaTKiGSWQXrV=Yw@mail.gmail.com>

Ah yes. I was using RC1, not RC2! So I retested in RC2 and none of the vfx
work at all.

So it's not an OS problem. It's something new in RC2


From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Mon Feb  8 06:30:25 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi))
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 11:30:25 +0000
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSR7L+t48819TTBUwpjDCQeoYhdh4bMYaTKiGSWQXrV=Yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9dff80c-0ce3-4ffd-92dd-cad3db148cad@Spark>
 <254ad21f-5c20-494e-b565-756d80d3435c@Spark>
 <903D6452-7AC0-4262-9F0D-56D9F866BEC8@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <CABRqQSTEeHOTkLMhWbBOCZffLQMUcQeRypet21Tod+6g68wV6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <9b4e7e7a-676a-4533-99e5-4bfd19fa8c44@Spark>
 <63079b5c-3451-1990-c828-69338a840684@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSR7L+t48819TTBUwpjDCQeoYhdh4bMYaTKiGSWQXrV=Yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSRkpdqbumoZ_AeoVxzk6oA+HmGzJsS3Z2p1GduS46Bn6Q@mail.gmail.com>

This only affects MacOS. Windows and Linux are ok.
I've updated the info on the bug report and included a stack to give Panos
an easy time.


From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon Feb  8 10:57:37 2021
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 17:57:37 +0200
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 254
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-VNPj8JPh=4Z1fZh=KZHuEVUcq6GwyscaoYZSoOi_Mtw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #254 here: http://bit.ly/3rCsnp1

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.

-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Mon Feb  8 11:15:18 2021
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 08:15:18 -0800
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <63079b5c-3451-1990-c828-69338a840684@gmail.com>
References: <63079b5c-3451-1990-c828-69338a840684@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96E05089-2758-41A7-9347-258C73F6F637@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Folks,
I get effects in Apple?s Big Sur when I use v9.6.1 in Livecode. But 9.6.2(rc2) fails. It?s not the Mac OS. Something happened in 9.6.2. I haven?t tried it in 9.6.2(rc1).
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 2:29 AM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?No joy over here:
> 
> LC 9.6.2 RC 2 / macOS 11.3 Beta 1
> 
> But this does work this way:
> 
> LC 8.2.0 DP 2 / macOS 11.3 Beta 1
> 
> So the problem may not lie with macOS.
> 
>> On 7.02.21 15:42, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode wrote:
>> That is strange. As it worked for you Sean, what machine are you on? But, as we have several of us where it doesn?t work I filed a bug anyway:
>> 
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23085
>> 
>> :-H?kan
>>> On 7 Feb 2021, 05:12 +0100, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just tested here in BigSur 11.2 and they work fine in both the IDE and
>>> standalone. The only ones that do not work are the core image transitions
>>> (with the exception of dissolve which, although having the same name, does
>>> not appear to use the CI version of the effect).
>>> 
>>> I made a simple default stack with one button with this code:
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp pButtonNumber
>>> lock screen for visual effect
>>> set the backcolor of this card to (line random(552) of colornames())
>>> unlock screen with visual effect "dissolve"
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> The standalone was set with all the default parameters and auto inclusions.
>>> 
>>> Sean
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 18:16, prothero--- via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hakan:
>>>> I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was
>>>> working on previous versions.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, please file a bug report.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that
>>>> work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just
>>>> my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library
>>>> and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also
>>>> tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping
>>>> every file out of existence.
>>>>> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
>>>>> 
>>>>> :-H?kan
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
>>>> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
>>>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Mon Feb  8 12:31:53 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 17:31:53 +0000
Subject: No visual effects on Big Sur?
In-Reply-To: <96E05089-2758-41A7-9347-258C73F6F637@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <96E05089-2758-41A7-9347-258C73F6F637@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <DC2AEF8E-15CD-45CE-AC13-A7885A9FE719@pidigital.co.uk>

It?s been confirmed to be a regression in RC2 and should be fixed in RC3

Sean Cole
Pi Digital


> On 8 Feb 2021, at 16:15, ELS Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Folks,
> I get effects in Apple?s Big Sur when I use v9.6.1 in Livecode. But 9.6.2(rc2) fails. It?s not the Mac OS. Something happened in 9.6.2. I haven?t tried it in 9.6.2(rc1).
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2021, at 2:29 AM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?No joy over here:
>> 
>> LC 9.6.2 RC 2 / macOS 11.3 Beta 1
>> 
>> But this does work this way:
>> 
>> LC 8.2.0 DP 2 / macOS 11.3 Beta 1
>> 
>> So the problem may not lie with macOS.
>> 
>>>> On 7.02.21 15:42, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode wrote:
>>> That is strange. As it worked for you Sean, what machine are you on? But, as we have several of us where it doesn?t work I filed a bug anyway:
>>> 
>>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23085
>>> 
>>> :-H?kan
>>>> On 7 Feb 2021, 05:12 +0100, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I just tested here in BigSur 11.2 and they work fine in both the IDE and
>>>> standalone. The only ones that do not work are the core image transitions
>>>> (with the exception of dissolve which, although having the same name, does
>>>> not appear to use the CI version of the effect).
>>>> 
>>>> I made a simple default stack with one button with this code:
>>>> 
>>>> on mouseUp pButtonNumber
>>>> lock screen for visual effect
>>>> set the backcolor of this card to (line random(552) of colornames())
>>>> unlock screen with visual effect "dissolve"
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> The standalone was set with all the default parameters and auto inclusions.
>>>> 
>>>> Sean
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 18:16, prothero--- via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hakan:
>>>>> I get the same thing. Big Sur, livecode version LC 9.6.2 (rc2). It was
>>>>> working on previous versions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, please file a bug report.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 10:55 PM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Running LC 9.6.2 (rc2) on macOS Big Sur I have no visual effects that
>>>>> work. None! Is there anyone else having the same experience, or is it just
>>>>> my setup? I have tried to wipe every RunRev/LiveCode file in the Library
>>>>> and in the applications folder and then reinstall but still no luck. Also
>>>>> tried older (stable versions) with no luck, but that was before wiping
>>>>> every file out of existence.
>>>>>> Can anyone else running Big Sur confirm before I file a bug-report?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> :-H?kan
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
>>>>> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
>>>>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 13:10:15 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 10:10:15 -0800
Subject: Print to PDF and Big Sur
Message-ID: <DC7060DF-A874-4C1C-9658-719879F1957B@gmail.com>

Anybody having trouble printing to PDF under Big Sur with LC 9.6.2 rc2? My apps are throwing an error on the line 

open printing to PDF tPathToSaveTo

The same code runs fine on LC 9.6.1

Marty


From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 13:32:20 2021
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 20:32:20 +0200
Subject: Print to PDF and Big Sur
In-Reply-To: <DC7060DF-A874-4C1C-9658-719879F1957B@gmail.com>
References: <DC7060DF-A874-4C1C-9658-719879F1957B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq86LOY6idNwP9C8nb1WofpqCe9NV+DBfzniZsPZ4-f3pg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Marty,

Could you file a bug report and attach a sample stack? I did a quick test
and I am not able to reproduce this issue. Could it be the case you're
trying to print a field with emojis?

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 at 20:11, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Anybody having trouble printing to PDF under Big Sur with LC 9.6.2 rc2? My
> apps are throwing an error on the line
>
> open printing to PDF tPathToSaveTo
>
> The same code runs fine on LC 9.6.1
>
> Marty
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 13:39:01 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 10:39:01 -0800
Subject: Print to PDF and Big Sur
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq86LOY6idNwP9C8nb1WofpqCe9NV+DBfzniZsPZ4-f3pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DC7060DF-A874-4C1C-9658-719879F1957B@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq86LOY6idNwP9C8nb1WofpqCe9NV+DBfzniZsPZ4-f3pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D812E6E5-97B7-4129-97E8-72B687E73A3B@gmail.com>

It?s in a standalone and I?m thinking it?s another codesign issue at this point. I will investigate further and report back. (No emojis!)

Marty

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 10:32 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Marty,
> 
> Could you file a bug report and attach a sample stack? I did a quick test
> and I am not able to reproduce this issue. Could it be the case you're
> trying to print a field with emojis?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 at 20:11, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Anybody having trouble printing to PDF under Big Sur with LC 9.6.2 rc2? My
>> apps are throwing an error on the line
>> 
>> open printing to PDF tPathToSaveTo
>> 
>> The same code runs fine on LC 9.6.1
>> 
>> Marty



From martyknappster at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 14:25:46 2021
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 11:25:46 -0800
Subject: Print to PDF and Big Sur
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq86LOY6idNwP9C8nb1WofpqCe9NV+DBfzniZsPZ4-f3pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DC7060DF-A874-4C1C-9658-719879F1957B@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq86LOY6idNwP9C8nb1WofpqCe9NV+DBfzniZsPZ4-f3pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8702F866-A397-480F-AB01-C813764E5808@gmail.com>

OK, I added the ?--deep? parameter to the codesign command and that seems to have fixed things.

Marty

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 10:32 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Marty,
> 
> Could you file a bug report and attach a sample stack? I did a quick test
> and I am not able to reproduce this issue. Could it be the case you're
> trying to print a field with emojis?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 at 20:11, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Anybody having trouble printing to PDF under Big Sur with LC 9.6.2 rc2? My
>> apps are throwing an error on the line
>> 
>> open printing to PDF tPathToSaveTo
>> 
>> The same code runs fine on LC 9.6.1
>> 
>> Marty



From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:02:26 2021
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 22:02:26 +0200
Subject: Print to PDF and Big Sur
In-Reply-To: <8702F866-A397-480F-AB01-C813764E5808@gmail.com>
References: <DC7060DF-A874-4C1C-9658-719879F1957B@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq86LOY6idNwP9C8nb1WofpqCe9NV+DBfzniZsPZ4-f3pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <8702F866-A397-480F-AB01-C813764E5808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8fVL7xSeHWqD=5K3w4Bt9aQASGYBfKV6jOa0r=HY=pvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the update, Marty. So it seems the revpdfprinter.dylib was not
signed, and Big Sur does not allow unsigned binaries to run, or sth like
this.

The "--deep" param ensures all the components in the bundle will be signed.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 at 21:26, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> OK, I added the ?--deep? parameter to the codesign command and that seems
> to have fixed things.
>
> Marty
>
> > On Feb 8, 2021, at 10:32 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Marty,
> >
> > Could you file a bug report and attach a sample stack? I did a quick test
> > and I am not able to reproduce this issue. Could it be the case you're
> > trying to print a field with emojis?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> > On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 at 20:11, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Anybody having trouble printing to PDF under Big Sur with LC 9.6.2 rc2?
> My
> >> apps are throwing an error on the line
> >>
> >> open printing to PDF tPathToSaveTo
> >>
> >> The same code runs fine on LC 9.6.1
> >>
> >> Marty
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From bduck at mac.com  Mon Feb  8 15:26:31 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 15:26:31 -0500
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode with xAPI Cohort
Message-ID: <76F08B9A-C55A-4980-84BC-1B7652B6C1AC@mac.com>

The xAPI Cohort has launched, we?re preparing to meet live over the next week.

Please use this link to register your availability:

https://www.when2meet.com/?10983382-E3NWh

Brian Duck
Bduck at Mac do t com


From bduck at mac.com  Tue Feb  9 02:15:28 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 02:15:28 -0500
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode with xAPI Cohort
In-Reply-To: <76F08B9A-C55A-4980-84BC-1B7652B6C1AC@mac.com>
References: <76F08B9A-C55A-4980-84BC-1B7652B6C1AC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CFBEA8EA-DE60-4810-98F9-EFB87FB737E2@mac.com>

Please continue to mark your availability in When2Meet, url above. Based on early responses, our first opportunity to meet will be today at 12:30 EST.  Here is a zoom link: Topic: xAPI in LiveCode Cohort #1 - Zoom Meeting
Time: Feb 9, 2021 12:30 PM America/Detroit

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us04web.zoom.us/j/75593825050?pwd=Wklta3FhckZGU213OEtoUFVwTzNGZz09

Meeting ID: 755 9382 5050
Passcode: 2CQm0k

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 3:26 PM, Brian K. Duck <bduck at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> The xAPI Cohort has launched, we?re preparing to meet live over the next week.
> 
> Please use this link to register your availability:
> 
> https://www.when2meet.com/?10983382-E3NWh
> 
> Brian Duck
> Bduck at Mac do t com




From mkoob at rogers.com  Tue Feb  9 08:09:33 2021
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 08:09:33 -0500
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode with xAPI Cohort
In-Reply-To: <CFBEA8EA-DE60-4810-98F9-EFB87FB737E2@mac.com>
References: <76F08B9A-C55A-4980-84BC-1B7652B6C1AC@mac.com>
 <CFBEA8EA-DE60-4810-98F9-EFB87FB737E2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <38EFAA5F-E979-4B14-BDC6-6D967DA7B8E9@rogers.com>

Hi Brian

I can jump in just for a half hour today.  I have other work meetings all day.

see you then.

Martin

> On Feb 9, 2021, at 2:15 AM, Brian K. Duck via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Please continue to mark your availability in When2Meet, url above. Based on early responses, our first opportunity to meet will be today at 12:30 EST.  Here is a zoom link: Topic: xAPI in LiveCode Cohort #1 - Zoom Meeting
> Time: Feb 9, 2021 12:30 PM America/Detroit
> 
> Join Zoom Meeting
> https://us04web.zoom.us/j/75593825050?pwd=Wklta3FhckZGU213OEtoUFVwTzNGZz09
> 
> Meeting ID: 755 9382 5050
> Passcode: 2CQm0k
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2021, at 3:26 PM, Brian K. Duck <bduck at mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The xAPI Cohort has launched, we?re preparing to meet live over the next week.
>> 
>> Please use this link to register your availability:
>> 
>> https://www.when2meet.com/?10983382-E3NWh
>> 
>> Brian Duck
>> Bduck at Mac do t com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From curry at pair.com  Tue Feb  9 11:53:28 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 11:53:28 -0500
Subject: Close Stack Cleanup
In-Reply-To: <C7B04455-1561-4F38-844D-61FD9887336A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <C7B04455-1561-4F38-844D-61FD9887336A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <509c36d3-a0c1-561d-543e-715da33a205b@pair.com>


Jacque:

 > I did a test before answering and the message was sent to the card
 > of my otherwise blank stack, after dismissing the IDE dialog.

Same here!

Bob:

 > there have been at least 2 versions that were unstable that crash
 > to desktops were not uncommon, and after losing so much data, I
 > save frequently, and auto save whenever I close a sub stack.

I agree, saving carefully/saving "big-league" is a must for LC IDE! :)
Got in the constant-save habit way back with version 1.1.1.
(Which had a tendency to vanish in the middle of a coding session.)

Here's what I do (and it all works, no message problems, no bugs):

1. If I edit any script, I manually save when I apply changes.
(I don't write more than 3 lines of code before saving.)

2. If I edit any UI or properties, I manually save.
(I save every 5 minutes or less, and before leaving a dirty card.)

3. Before I close any stack I've edited, I MANUALLY save.
And if I use auto-clean, it's hooked up to saveStackRequest. Reliable.
No message difficulties. And I know it's saved.*
(If I forget to save, it warns me. That's my backup if habit fails.)

4. *For each of the above, #1-#3, I look for the dialog while saving.

5. *And every session (and before closing an edited stack) I look at the
stack in the Finder/Desktop to check the Mod date. I also make a copy.
("Sorta trust, but verify the heck out of it." There can be the known
disassociated-SE, or other bugs, that prevent IDE from really saving.)

6. *If in step #4 or #5 I find that it wasn't really saved,
I can save again or take any other necessary steps I deem appropriate,
because ... I have NOT closed the stack yet! That's why.
I intentionally save, then double check, then intentionally close.

IOW, If you and I don't trust the IDE enough to let it decide when we
should save (which is a big part of the reason this thread exists) ...

... then why should I trust it to SAVE FOR ME when I close a stack?
To me, that seems risky, plus it's not building on the same premise.

Even if the IDE did NOT have a known bug (or complication) and even if
the close message DID usually work, I would still save manually,
each and every time before closing a stack. That way I know.

(LC IDE should be more reliable, yet there is a silver lining:
it has taught me to save more carefully in EVERY app!
Because the idea of a completely reliable app instance is fantasy;
the computer itself could have a hardware or OS failure at any moment.
My manic LC save habits have "saved" me in other apps, more than once.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From bduck at mac.com  Tue Feb  9 19:16:35 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:16:35 -0500
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode with xAPI Cohort Meeting #2 2/10/21 1:30 EST to
 4 PM EST
Message-ID: <2F4B5092-5421-474A-8ED2-03729E762BF1@mac.com>

I?m hopeful that you will be able to attend part, or all, of this meeting time.

Please continue to mark your availability in When2Meet, url below. 
> https://www.when2meet.com/?10983382-E3NWh <https://www.when2meet.com/?10983382-E3NWh>
There is another opportunity tomorrow for meeting time from 1:30 PM to 4 PM EST. The times are broken into 1/2 hour blocks within When2Meet, and there is a maximum of 2 people that have conflicts. Based on the information in When2Meet, I have blocked time in zoom starting 2/10 at 1:30 PM EST.

As I am in possession of a free Zoom account, the meeting scheduling is limited to 30 minute blocks. I will update the xAPI Cohort Slack for Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode with zoom credentials during the event.

I will also paste the follow on Zoom meetings into the chat during the meeting.

The FIRST block of Zoom meeting is here:

Topic: xAPI in LiveCode #2 Zoom Meeting, Part 1 
Time: Feb 10, 2021 01:30 PM America/Detroit

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us04web.zoom.us/j/71113499164?pwd=OE9ERTMwZ09iZityTlVPOS9JVVl2Zz09

Meeting ID: 711 1349 9164
Passcode: m465Fz

During this time, we'll recap what we covered in Meeting #1, ask for introductions, and look at the strategy of using LiveCode as a Learning Record Provider.  With the added time, we may be able to open the LiveCode project and discuss how LiveCode is sending a statement to the LRS.

This meeting will be recorded for those who cannot attend, or will be offline for part of the meeting.

Brian

Bduck a t Mac do t com

From david.bovill at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 12:50:55 2021
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 17:50:55 +0000
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode with xAPI Cohort Meeting #2 2/10/21 1:30
 EST to 4 PM EST
In-Reply-To: <2F4B5092-5421-474A-8ED2-03729E762BF1@mac.com>
References: <2F4B5092-5421-474A-8ED2-03729E762BF1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a72382ae-4a2f-4e0f-92b5-04dd9f831a81@Spark>

I?ll be there towards the end I hop. Have a meeting clash for the start unfortunately?. Have started work on the API.
On 10 Feb 2021, 00:17 +0000, Brian K. Duck via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I?m hopeful that you will be able to attend part, or all, of this meeting time.
>
> Please continue to mark your availability in When2Meet, url below.
> > https://www.when2meet.com/?10983382-E3NWh <https://www.when2meet.com/?10983382-E3NWh>
> There is another opportunity tomorrow for meeting time from 1:30 PM to 4 PM EST. The times are broken into 1/2 hour blocks within When2Meet, and there is a maximum of 2 people that have conflicts. Based on the information in When2Meet, I have blocked time in zoom starting 2/10 at 1:30 PM EST.
>
> As I am in possession of a free Zoom account, the meeting scheduling is limited to 30 minute blocks. I will update the xAPI Cohort Slack for Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode with zoom credentials during the event.
>
> I will also paste the follow on Zoom meetings into the chat during the meeting.
>
> The FIRST block of Zoom meeting is here:
>
> Topic: xAPI in LiveCode #2 Zoom Meeting, Part 1
> Time: Feb 10, 2021 01:30 PM America/Detroit
>
> Join Zoom Meeting
> https://us04web.zoom.us/j/71113499164?pwd=OE9ERTMwZ09iZityTlVPOS9JVVl2Zz09
>
> Meeting ID: 711 1349 9164
> Passcode: m465Fz
>
> During this time, we'll recap what we covered in Meeting #1, ask for introductions, and look at the strategy of using LiveCode as a Learning Record Provider. With the added time, we may be able to open the LiveCode project and discuss how LiveCode is sending a statement to the LRS.
>
> This meeting will be recorded for those who cannot attend, or will be offline for part of the meeting.
>
> Brian
>
> Bduck a t Mac do t com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Wed Feb 10 14:09:23 2021
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 20:09:23 +0100
Subject: test
Message-ID: <5F6E86C6-475E-4C99-A861-54B79DF4B3A2@laposte.net>

Hello,

I haven't received any messages for a week now. 

Strange, no ?

Ludovic



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Feb 10 14:27:41 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 19:27:41 +0000
Subject: test
In-Reply-To: <5F6E86C6-475E-4C99-A861-54B79DF4B3A2@laposte.net>
References: <5F6E86C6-475E-4C99-A861-54B79DF4B3A2@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <07FD871D-8F61-43E4-834F-E6FA5ED4A89C@iotecdigital.com>

How would you know if someone replied? :-)

Bob S


On Feb 10, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hello,

I haven't received any messages for a week now.

Strange, no ?

Ludovic



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Wed Feb 10 14:43:26 2021
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 20:43:26 +0100
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <76A13DAD-E864-4003-A786-CCBC29E8D0B7@laposte.net>

I can send but I don't receive anything!

You can see the list here : http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/date.html <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/date.html>

Here the explanation : I missed an "use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com> ? because "Your membership in the mailing list use-livecode has been disabled due to excessive bounces"

So I replied this message as indicated, we'll see

Ludovic

From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Thu Feb 11 05:09:02 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 10:09:02 +0000
Subject: Test
In-Reply-To: <76A13DAD-E864-4003-A786-CCBC29E8D0B7@laposte.net>
References: <76A13DAD-E864-4003-A786-CCBC29E8D0B7@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <23A80BBE-F777-4F9F-9730-DA3F07D067D8@pidigital.co.uk>

Hi Ludovic
Do you get this one?

Sean Cole
Pi Digital


> On 10 Feb 2021, at 19:43, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I can send but I don't receive anything!
> 
> You can see the list here : http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/date.html <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/date.html>
> 
> Here the explanation : I missed an "use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com> ? because "Your membership in the mailing list use-livecode has been disabled due to excessive bounces"
> 
> So I replied this message as indicated, we'll see
> 
> Ludovic
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bduck at mac.com  Thu Feb 11 08:34:24 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 08:34:24 -0500
Subject: Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Update - xAPI Cohort LIVE today at 2 PM EST
Message-ID: <4CFA0927-5BAE-42F0-8D26-68DD2B396A73@mac.com>

The free xAPI Cohort, https://xAPICohort.com, is underway. This afternoon will be live session #2, it?s never too late to join!

As updates, I?ve posted to the team gitHub:
https://github.com/orgs/xapicohort/teams/team-xapi-in-livecode

First Update:
team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Cohort Meeting #1 - 09 FEB 2021
Speaker Name Brian Duck

Attended:
Brian Duck
Andrew Bell
Henry Ryng
Izzy
Martin Koob
Peter Bogdanoff
Helen Lenane

1 other came and went?
Will Ji

This update should list:

Accomplishments for the week:
Our kickoff meeting was held 2/9 with 7 in attendance and recorded for others to view.
[https://youtu.be/6W4s0A25tWc](YouTube url)

We used When2Meet, a free webservice that allows participants to enter their availability in a web GUI and allows us to see when good timing for meetings with the most people over a week or more.

We worked through introductions:
Name, Location / Time Zone, xAPI Experience, LiveCode Experience

I presented the 3 components found in the document: xAPI a Guide for Technical Implementers, p 8. These include the Learning Record Provider, LRP; the Learning Record Store, LRS; and the Learning Record Consumer, LRC.

Our focus for the first sprint of the cohort, will be to build a LRP within LiveCode. Brian Duck will lead the effort to refactor the Team-MakeyMakey LiveCode project into a stand alone LRP which uses the xAPI Wrapper javaScript library internal to the LiveCode Project to send statements to the LRS.

David Bovill has expressed interest in building a LiveCode LRP from scratch sending JSON directly to the LRS.

I also presented the architecture for the Team-MakeyMakey LiveCode project, and a similar approach that might be used for the CMI5 xAPI Profile.

In the second sprint, we're expecting to repurpose one of the LiveCode LRP projects as a baseline for adding specific content into a LiveCode app.

Martin Koob mentioned that he is interested in a LiveCode project focused on the Video xAPI Profile, David Bovill has mentioned that he is interested in working on some educational content focused around environmental awareness to be completed and distributed prior to Earth Day 2021, which is as the conclusion of the xAPI Cohort.

We wrapped up with a round table of individual Goals for the cohort for team members online.

Areas where your team may need support:
A suggestion of tools used to determine 'best time to meet' on a reoccurring basis. When2Meet is focused on the upcoming days / weeks, but makes it difficult to determine the best time for a regular meeting date and time. Other suggestions appreciated!

What you hope to accomplish in the next week:
Next week, we'll likely begin the effort to build the LRP in LiveCode with David beginning from scratch and Brian leading a refactoring of the Team-MakeyMakey code.
Second Update:
team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Cohort Meeting #2 - 10 FEB 2021

In the second meeting of the 'Team xAPI in LiveCode' project, we introduced another new member, revisited the slides from meeting 1 which detailed the 3 core components of xAPI: Learning Record Provider, Learning Record Store and the Learning Record Consumer. David Bovill, Martin Koob, and Brian Duck each presented a bit of their LiveCode projects to help new team members understand the LiveCode approach; and we wrapped up by discussing next steps for the team.

https://youtu.be/kd6T4lYaNVY <https://youtu.be/kd6T4lYaNVY>




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 09:07:58 2021
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:07:58 +0100
Subject: Test
In-Reply-To: <76A13DAD-E864-4003-A786-CCBC29E8D0B7@laposte.net>
References: <76A13DAD-E864-4003-A786-CCBC29E8D0B7@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <4019878b-5eb8-1c9d-2b6c-1c426c8485da@gmail.com>

I have that also many times, one pc works sending and receiving, another 
does not send to the list.

Gmail via browser always works.


Op 10-2-2021 om 20:43 schreef Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode:
> I can send but I don't receive anything!
>
> You can see the list here : http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/date.html <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/date.html>
>
> Here the explanation : I missed an "use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com> ? because "Your membership in the mailing list use-livecode has been disabled due to excessive bounces"
>
> So I replied this message as indicated, we'll see
>
> Ludovic
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 12 07:12:12 2021
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:12:12 +0100
Subject: LC Roadmap
Message-ID: <A380D595-62B6-4615-8E76-3701935DE82D@major-k.de>

Hi folks,

see subject -> Last Updated on July 14, 2020
I think it is time to update the roadmap, what do you think?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 07:16:01 2021
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:16:01 +0200
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <A380D595-62B6-4615-8E76-3701935DE82D@major-k.de>
References: <A380D595-62B6-4615-8E76-3701935DE82D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <182751a1-0a0e-e567-7ff5-fe9435bc0123@gmail.com>

I've said something to that effect earlier, at which point I was jumped 
all over.

So, because I don't want to be jumped all over again, and because
saying the 'roadmap' needs to be updated will have no effect (didn't the 
last 3 times),
I'm NOT stating what I think.

Love. kisses, and other things,

Richmond.

On 12.02.21 14:12, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> see subject -> Last Updated on July 14, 2020
> I think it is time to update the roadmap, what do you think?
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From andre at andregarzia.com  Fri Feb 12 07:42:25 2021
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:42:25 +0000
Subject: Anyone able to connect to a PostgreSQL database with lc server?
Message-ID: <CAF3jwTnkAnFpPcNMaXo27LnWP+PxbMTkWLVEki-wnCMVTJ+BEA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

Before I escalate this to HQ, did anyone here was able to connect to a
postgresql database server using LiveCode Server?

I'm getting a hard crash here. The server is exiting with Signal 11
(segmentation fault?) on the call to revOpenDatabase. The arguments passed
to the server are correct. The same app (using RevIgniter) is able to
connect to MySQL without any problem.

We have a PostgreSQL database to benefit from "jsonb" fields. We can't
convert it to MySQL.

Best
Andre

-- 
https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia


From andre at andregarzia.com  Fri Feb 12 08:01:20 2021
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:01:20 +0000
Subject: Anyone able to connect to a PostgreSQL database with lc server?
In-Reply-To: <CAF3jwTnkAnFpPcNMaXo27LnWP+PxbMTkWLVEki-wnCMVTJ+BEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF3jwTnkAnFpPcNMaXo27LnWP+PxbMTkWLVEki-wnCMVTJ+BEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3jwTk+K5OSh0bfwZ-kk2vN08FKrEzKvBsywqm5BNLgf0fcBg@mail.gmail.com>

Whatever it was, it is apparently happening on 9.0.4 but fixed in
9.6.2-rc-2, go figure...

I don't have time to dive deep into this, I'm just happy to have it working.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 at 12:42, Andre Garzia <andre at andregarzia.com> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Before I escalate this to HQ, did anyone here was able to connect to a
> postgresql database server using LiveCode Server?
>
> I'm getting a hard crash here. The server is exiting with Signal 11
> (segmentation fault?) on the call to revOpenDatabase. The arguments passed
> to the server are correct. The same app (using RevIgniter) is able to
> connect to MySQL without any problem.
>
> We have a PostgreSQL database to benefit from "jsonb" fields. We can't
> convert it to MySQL.
>
> Best
> Andre
>
> --
> https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
>


-- 
https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia


From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:53:14 2021
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 18:53:14 +0100
Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g8CPo3xRdGAdtPR0icq0XNyWciGP0YtCn-D=ojgZE_9Ug@mail.gmail.com>

I am on Windows 10 (but answer will apply to MacOS as well).

I am trying to read the URL property of a file that I create simply
dragging-dropping the Internet address from my browser to the Desktop and
then storing this file. There are thousands now!!!

Some of such files are readable text files with the readable content
"[internetshortcut], URL: xxx etc." -- but most Internet shortcut files on
Windows with the invisible .url or .ink extension are empty when trying to
read with using a text editor or opening them in LiveCode.

In such Windows file's there is a property url:<link> that contains the web
address. It is visible when opening using the right mouse button (context
menu) and then selecting the "properties" item. When double-clicking such
file, the default browser will open and open the web page directed to.

But I want to read this URL property as text directly and use it from
within LiveCode.

I assume that these Internet shortcuts store the URL information not in the
file itself, or I just cannot get to this information.

I found one batch file script that promises such a solution. Such batch
text file can be called through the SHELL() command and will then execute.
It has the file extension ".bat".

#-- START BATCH SCRIPT
echo off
setlocal enableextensions enabledelayedexpansion
pushd %1
for %%F in (%1\*.url) do (
   echo %%~dpnxF
   call :findurl "%%~dpnxF"
)
popd
goto end
:findurl inputfile
set url=
for /f "tokens=2 delims==" %%i in ('findstr URL %1') do set url=%%i
echo %url%
echo -----
:end
#-- END BATCH SCRIPT

Unfortunately, my knowledge of such batch scripts is very limited.

I get error messages when calling the batch file through the shell
function. Maybe there is someone here who can interpret this script? To me
it would be sufficient to simply call shell("location of the file and file
name of the url-file .. shell commands") and receive back the URL property
as text. Or is there any other way to get to this information?

Since LC is cross-platform, such solution also would be nice to have for
OSX and Linux?

Regards, Roland


From dsquance at telus.net  Fri Feb 12 13:58:59 2021
From: dsquance at telus.net (David Squance)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:58:59 -0800
Subject: Livecode IDE question
Message-ID: <6F596AE3-03C5-48BF-AAE8-C42918611BC7@telus.net>

I?m a hobbyist, and infrequent dabbler, and I hope my question isn?t inappropriate to post here. I find the forum too cumbersome and daunting. With recent upgrades, the toolbar at the top of the screen in the IDE is fixed about an inch below the top. Is there anyway to move it up? I use a MacBook Air and the screen is small enough.

Thanks.
Dave

LC9.6.2 RC2
OS 11.2.1


From dochawk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:26:21 2021
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:26:21 -0800
Subject: Livecode IDE question
In-Reply-To: <6F596AE3-03C5-48BF-AAE8-C42918611BC7@telus.net>
References: <6F596AE3-03C5-48BF-AAE8-C42918611BC7@telus.net>
Message-ID: <8B1DFEBB-614C-4EC6-BA7C-76B485D00BB1@gmail.com>

I don?t know if this helps, but I turn off the icons and just have the text buttons, giving back space.

Or you can just hide both . . . macOS can assign keystrokes to application menu items in settings




From irog at mac.com  Fri Feb 12 16:21:48 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:21:48 -0800
Subject: Livecode IDE question
In-Reply-To: <6F596AE3-03C5-48BF-AAE8-C42918611BC7@telus.net>
References: <6F596AE3-03C5-48BF-AAE8-C42918611BC7@telus.net>
Message-ID: <9C0C60BB-CD7C-4924-979F-34060297B585@mac.com>

I?m having a similar problem on my new MBP, and haven?t figured out  the cause yet. Just type this in the message box for an temporary fix:

	set the top of stack revMenubar to 25 - - - or so


Roger


> On Feb 12, 2021, at 10:58 AM, David Squance via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m a hobbyist, and infrequent dabbler, and I hope my question isn?t inappropriate to post here. I find the forum too cumbersome and daunting. With recent upgrades, the toolbar at the top of the screen in the IDE is fixed about an inch below the top. Is there anyway to move it up? I use a MacBook Air and the screen is small enough.
> 
> Thanks.
> Dave
> 
> LC9.6.2 RC2
> OS 11.2.1
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 17:11:05 2021
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 23:11:05 +0100
Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files -- SOLVED
 for Windows 10
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g8pYCueptrvanWuT1H=M9Tf19GhS2mn8tBpCKuPJiOwLA@mail.gmail.com>

Tested on Windows 10:

I now found and tested the batch file script that works now:

Create a batch file, for example "GetURL.bat"
Edit the file with a text editor (Notepad++ or whatever)

Put the following script into this file:

:: START OF SCRIPT -- comment line
@echo off
setlocal enableextensions enabledelayedexpansion
pushd %1
for %%F in (%1\*.url) do (
   echo %%~dpnxF
   call :findurl "%%~dpnxF"
)
popd
goto end
:findurl inputfile
set url=
for /f "tokens=2 delims==" %%i in ('findstr URL %1') do set url=%%i
echo %url%
echo ---
:end
:: END OF SCRIPT -- comment line

Save the file and place it for this demo in the C:\folder (which is
accessible for admins only. Otherwise use a "documents/..." folder.

-- Usage
When calling the .bat file here we assume that the .bat file is in the C:\
directory .

...Calling from Windows CMD opened with Administrator rights:
 C:\GetURL.bat "C:\Users\<your username>\Desktop\Links"

This assumes that there is a folder "Links" on the desktop containing the
Internet shortcut file (hidden file extension .url) and that you want to
read the content of the URL plus the filename.

-- Now, we can call the .bat file from LiveCode with a little script in a
test button:

on mouseUp
# Example script to call the .bat file:
   set the hideconsolewindows to true
   put "C:\GetURL.bat" into tCmd -- Calling the commands in the .bat file
   put "C:\Users\Rolan\Desktop\Links" into tFolder -- The folder containing
Internet Shortcut files .url
   put tCMD && tFolder into tCommand
   put shell (tCommand) into msg --x Could be messages box or any field...
end mouseUp

-- Example output in the message box  (a list of .url files with the
content of their url)

The script in the .bat file looks at all files with a .url extension in the
folder specified and returns the name and the URL content of that file.
Each record is separated by three "---".

C:\Users\Roland\Desktop\Links\simultaneous multiple database access -
LiveCode Forums.url
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t
---
C:\Users\Roland\Desktop\Links\Sons of Thunder Software - Developer
Resources - LiveCode.url
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/livecode.htm
---
C:\Users\Roland\Desktop\Links\Sons of Thunder Software - Products.url
http://www.sonsothunder.com/products/products.htm

---

Please, if there is anything for Mac (OSX) and Linux, we could publish this
in the Forum.


Roland

P.S: I will also check how to read the local .ink files that are shortcuts
to files and folder in Windows. It should also be possible using this for
".ini" files.


From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 17:49:31 2021
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 23:49:31 +0100
Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files -- SOLVED
 for Windows 10 -- Added remarks
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g8pYCueptrvanWuT1H=M9Tf19GhS2mn8tBpCKuPJiOwLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g8pYCueptrvanWuT1H=M9Tf19GhS2mn8tBpCKuPJiOwLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g-FtHoZzz7rx_qXMCSBQmxDYPxwKQJFHBOnT6b19a924g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there

Windows 10:

The .bat file is required for those .url files that do not give you a text
when opening (and that was the problem).
Some of the .url files can also simply be read using this sample script.
(And these specific files cannot be read with the .bat file as I seem to
recognize. Further testing is needed.)

on mouseUp  local tFilePath
 ask "Please paste the file path"
 if it is not empty then put it into tFilePath
 put URL("binfile:"&tFilePath) into msg
end mouseUp

You must provide the filepath with the filename.
The result (as an example):

Example output for .url file (same file not readable with the .bat)
   [InternetShortcut]
   URL=https://cosi.lino-framework.org/tour/index.html

Greetings, Roland


On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 11:11 PM R.H. <roland.huettmann at gmail.com> wrote:

> Tested on Windows 10:
>
> I now found and tested the batch file script that works now:
>
> Create a batch file, for example "GetURL.bat"
> Edit the file with a text editor (Notepad++ or whatever)
>
> Put the following script into this file:
>
> :: START OF SCRIPT -- comment line
> @echo off
> setlocal enableextensions enabledelayedexpansion
> pushd %1
> for %%F in (%1\*.url) do (
>    echo %%~dpnxF
>    call :findurl "%%~dpnxF"
> )
> popd
> goto end
> :findurl inputfile
> set url=
> for /f "tokens=2 delims==" %%i in ('findstr URL %1') do set url=%%i
> echo %url%
> echo ---
> :end
> :: END OF SCRIPT -- comment line
>
> Save the file and place it for this demo in the C:\folder (which is
> accessible for admins only. Otherwise use a "documents/..." folder.
>
> -- Usage
> When calling the .bat file here we assume that the .bat file is in the C:\
> directory .
>
> ...Calling from Windows CMD opened with Administrator rights:
>  C:\GetURL.bat "C:\Users\<your username>\Desktop\Links"
>
> This assumes that there is a folder "Links" on the desktop containing the
> Internet shortcut file (hidden file extension .url) and that you want to
> read the content of the URL plus the filename.
>
> -- Now, we can call the .bat file from LiveCode with a little script in a
> test button:
>
> on mouseUp
> # Example script to call the .bat file:
>    set the hideconsolewindows to true
>    put "C:\GetURL.bat" into tCmd -- Calling the commands in the .bat file
>    put "C:\Users\Rolan\Desktop\Links" into tFolder -- The folder
> containing Internet Shortcut files .url
>    put tCMD && tFolder into tCommand
>    put shell (tCommand) into msg --x Could be messages box or any field...
> end mouseUp
>
> -- Example output in the message box  (a list of .url files with the
> content of their url)
>
> The script in the .bat file looks at all files with a .url extension in
> the folder specified and returns the name and the URL content of that file.
> Each record is separated by three "---".
>
> C:\Users\Roland\Desktop\Links\simultaneous multiple database access -
> LiveCode Forums.url
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t
> ---
> C:\Users\Roland\Desktop\Links\Sons of Thunder Software - Developer
> Resources - LiveCode.url
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/livecode.htm
> ---
> C:\Users\Roland\Desktop\Links\Sons of Thunder Software - Products.url
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/products/products.htm
>
> ---
>
> Please, if there is anything for Mac (OSX) and Linux, we could publish
> this in the Forum.
>
>
> Roland
>
> P.S: I will also check how to read the local .ink files that are shortcuts
> to files and folder in Windows. It should also be possible using this for
> ".ini" files.
>
>
>


From bduck at mac.com  Sat Feb 13 03:07:59 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 03:07:59 -0500
Subject: Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Update
Message-ID: <C9C7D4B9-6FEC-489D-B23A-D849042D2634@mac.com>

Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Update Today we published the LiveCode project to our GitHub repository. In this update, we're adding a GitHub repository to the Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode space under the ownership of the xAPI Cohort Spring 2021. This video shows how the repository was added, how to access the files, and details the file structure of the sample LiveCode project that was created by Martin Koob using the Levure framework. 

Link to view this video update on youTube: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLoTaimk5y8


#Team-xAPI-In-LiveCode GitHub Discussion

https://github.com/orgs/xapicohort/teams/team-xapi-in-livecode/url <https://github.com/orgs/xapicohort/teams/team-xapi-in-livecode/url>

Thanks @martinkoob !

Brian

From e.beugelaar at me.com  Sat Feb 13 06:24:22 2021
From: e.beugelaar at me.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 12:24:22 +0100
Subject: Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Update
In-Reply-To: <C9C7D4B9-6FEC-489D-B23A-D849042D2634@mac.com>
References: <C9C7D4B9-6FEC-489D-B23A-D849042D2634@mac.com>
Message-ID: <01d701d701fa$c881cac0$59856040$@me.com>

Hi Brian,

The URL is not correct.

Best regards,
Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Brian K. Duck via use-livecode
Sent: zaterdag 13 februari 2021 09:08
To: Lists At RunRev <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Brian K. Duck <bduck at mac.com>
Subject: Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Update

Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Update Today we published the LiveCode project to our
GitHub repository. In this update, we're adding a GitHub repository to the
Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode space under the ownership of the xAPI Cohort Spring
2021. This video shows how the repository was added, how to access the
files, and details the file structure of the sample LiveCode project that
was created by Martin Koob using the Levure framework. 

Link to view this video update on youTube: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLoTaimk5y8


#Team-xAPI-In-LiveCode GitHub Discussion

https://github.com/orgs/xapicohort/teams/team-xapi-in-livecode/url
<https://github.com/orgs/xapicohort/teams/team-xapi-in-livecode/url>

Thanks @martinkoob !

Brian
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 07:37:01 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi))
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 12:37:01 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <182751a1-0a0e-e567-7ff5-fe9435bc0123@gmail.com>
References: <A380D595-62B6-4615-8E76-3701935DE82D@major-k.de>
 <182751a1-0a0e-e567-7ff5-fe9435bc0123@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSRTMQ1LBy828wE58tFtth+L7vTv1F9gmyk8hA=cEnbsxg@mail.gmail.com>

I was told last year that HTML5 deployment would see upgrades maybe by
Jan2021 LC 9.7. However LC9.6.2 is still awaiting an RC3. So it?s just not
going to happen. My client and I are severely disappointed to see that the
conference set up for 2022 may be the FIRST LOOK we might see for the HTML5
upgrade. Actually, disappointed doesn?t even close to cut it. I am
seriously LIVID! Absolute proof that subscription model for this is
pointless. It pisses me right off that promise after promise I keep falling
for this crap. I?m paying something like $400 on top of the original $400
per year for this kind of service. I CANNOT afford to keep doing this with
vague empty unfulfilled promises (lies). I KEEP falling for it because the
likes of others on this forum keep trying to convince me that they have our
best interests at heart. But keep forgetting that this is BS too.

Roadmap = careering off a cliff top.  Clean up projected for New York 2022.



On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 at 12:16, Richmond via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I've said something to that effect earlier, at which point I was jumped
> all over.
>
> So, because I don't want to be jumped all over again, and because
> saying the 'roadmap' needs to be updated will have no effect (didn't the
> last 3 times),
> I'm NOT stating what I think.
>
> Love. kisses, and other things,
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 12.02.21 14:12, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > see subject -> Last Updated on July 14, 2020
> > I think it is time to update the roadmap, what do you think?
> >
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Klaus
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > https://www.major-k.de
> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > klaus at major-k.de
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
-- 
Pi Digital


From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 08:25:48 2021
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:25:48 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSRTMQ1LBy828wE58tFtth+L7vTv1F9gmyk8hA=cEnbsxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A380D595-62B6-4615-8E76-3701935DE82D@major-k.de>
 <182751a1-0a0e-e567-7ff5-fe9435bc0123@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSRTMQ1LBy828wE58tFtth+L7vTv1F9gmyk8hA=cEnbsxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4732FF8-6932-4446-BE51-5518020F04E3@gmail.com>



> On 13 Feb 2021, at 12:37 pm, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I was told last year that HTML5 deployment would see upgrades maybe by
> Jan2021 LC 9.7.

Hi Sean,

I think that kind of aspirational statement, particularly in the world of software development, is the kind of thing to be really pleased and surprised about if it actually happens within 12 months of the estimate. In my book it certainly doesn?t qualify as a lie.  To anticipate features for a commercial product in development would need  a seriously strong and informed insider steer.  No consolation, I appreciate, but if anyone should be in a position to understand the particular challenges of software development, it must be other developers.

Which kind of reminds me about my last mail?. paying for Windows SuperCard and waiting for it to arrive.  I was SO wound up about that.  Weirdly now, it is a fond memory.


Best Wishes,
David Glasgow



From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 09:28:53 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi))
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 14:28:53 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <C4732FF8-6932-4446-BE51-5518020F04E3@gmail.com>
References: <A380D595-62B6-4615-8E76-3701935DE82D@major-k.de>
 <182751a1-0a0e-e567-7ff5-fe9435bc0123@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSRTMQ1LBy828wE58tFtth+L7vTv1F9gmyk8hA=cEnbsxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C4732FF8-6932-4446-BE51-5518020F04E3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSTH+YW76uX3y9HrOt=yuNPWihmG7PFz-v76ANqvj8qi3A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David

It is (a lie) if this has been going on for years...
If they say specifcally it is to be released Jan 2021 in an effort to
prevent me from cancelling my subscription and then find out it's likely
not going to be around till mid 2022, it's a bit much really!

Sean

On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 at 13:25, David V Glasgow via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On 13 Feb 2021, at 12:37 pm, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was told last year that HTML5 deployment would see upgrades maybe by
> > Jan2021 LC 9.7.
>
> Hi Sean,
>
> I think that kind of aspirational statement, particularly in the world of
> software development, is the kind of thing to be really pleased and
> surprised about if it actually happens within 12 months of the estimate. In
> my book it certainly doesn?t qualify as a lie.  To anticipate features for
> a commercial product in development would need  a seriously strong and
> informed insider steer.  No consolation, I appreciate, but if anyone should
> be in a position to understand the particular challenges of software
> development, it must be other developers.
>
> Which kind of reminds me about my last mail?. paying for Windows SuperCard
> and waiting for it to arrive.  I was SO wound up about that.  Weirdly now,
> it is a fond memory.
>
>
> Best Wishes,
> David Glasgow
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From bduck at mac.com  Sat Feb 13 13:00:39 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:00:39 -0500
Subject: team-xapi-in-LiveCode Update
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1613235601.314874.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1613235601.314874.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <28CCCFCE-103D-4D6F-8523-69B392C7A71A@mac.com>

Erik,

The YouTube url has been validated and is included because the direct link to our GitHub team link requires:
1) a logged in user
2) the user must be a member of the ?xAPI Cohort Spring 2021? group

GitHub gives a 404 error if either of these conditions are not met, there is no feedback provided other than this error number.

Anyone wishing to see the code is welcome to join the xAPI Learning Cohort and request access to the Cohort GitHub area.

The YouTube url does not have this limitation.

As I am cross posting to: use-LiveCode, gutHub discussions, slack channels, and direct email to our team; I?m working to keep the urls posted valid, but I am learning as I go.

Sent from my iPhone,
Brian Duck

> On Feb 13, 2021, at 12:00 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> The URL is not correct.
> 
> Best regards,
> Erik



From bduck at mac.com  Sat Feb 13 13:19:13 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:19:13 -0500
Subject: HTML internal to stack - best practices
Message-ID: <338A728B-4814-4F3E-BC6C-9D415CE95039@mac.com>

I?m looking to understand, find references, and hopefully *examples* of a stack with html, css, JavaScript, JSON and JavaScript libraries that are stored internal to the stack.  
Some files must be modified by the user, others are untouched by user data, but included via <script> tags in the html.

The stack will need to allow access, via LC fields, to variables in the JS libraries to define the server and authentication data specific to the user.

The user will be filling in a form in the html, so that should be stored and modifiable by the user.

The immediate need is to keep the code internal to the stack, to provide a single file solution.

Questions for the list:
1) How is storing HTML in a text field or variable different from setting a property?

2) Do I need to assemble the HTML, CSS, and JavaScript into a single object then set the HTMLtext of the browser widget?

3) what examples or references are relevant for LC 9.6? I can go quite far back in the list, on the discussion boards or in the learning materials; but I don?t see good guidance for new features that have replaced old techniques.

Sent from my iPhone,
Brian Duck

> On Feb 13, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Brian K. Duck <bduck at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Erik,
> 
> The YouTube url has been validated and is included because the direct link to our GitHub team link requires:
> 1) a logged in user
> 2) the user must be a member of the ?xAPI Cohort Spring 2021? group
> 
> GitHub gives a 404 error if either of these conditions are not met, there is no feedback provided other than this error number.
> 
> Anyone wishing to see the code is welcome to join the xAPI Learning Cohort and request access to the Cohort GitHub area.
> 
> The YouTube url does not have this limitation.
> 
> As I am cross posting to: use-LiveCode, gutHub discussions, slack channels, and direct email to our team; I?m working to keep the urls posted valid, but I am learning as I go.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone,
> Brian Duck
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2021, at 12:00 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> 
>> The URL is not correct.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Erik



From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sat Feb 13 14:39:29 2021
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 19:39:29 +0000
Subject: Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode Update
Message-ID: <FDA4482F-4C4F-4920-A769-520EC95E045C@uni-wh.de>

This url seems to work for the repository in xapi

https://github.com/xapicohort/lib_LC_LMS_LTI

Kind regards
Bernd


From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 16:54:03 2021
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 22:54:03 +0100
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSRTMQ1LBy828wE58tFtth+L7vTv1F9gmyk8hA=cEnbsxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A380D595-62B6-4615-8E76-3701935DE82D@major-k.de>
 <182751a1-0a0e-e567-7ff5-fe9435bc0123@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSRTMQ1LBy828wE58tFtth+L7vTv1F9gmyk8hA=cEnbsxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0b7cac08-acda-81e8-c8f3-f36b4c1d197c@gmail.com>

That's why I quit after one year subscription.

I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations, lot of bugs are not 
solved.

Feature requests not implemented although asked by many.

Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of people to 
program. But it runs behind future facts.

While other platforms implement dozens of easy things which you can easy 
access, you'll have to hope it will be implemented.

And the same is offered for free. Maybe takes some more effort to learn.

HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way.. 
Better learn html yourself and use PHP or LC-server if you like, and it 
will take about the same amount of time to create it. And have real fast 
loading of your webpage. Visitors are not going to wait so long until 
it's loaded. Maybe ok for internal use on Intranet, but as user then i 
would be even frustrated of the loading times.

So i now made a webpage in PHP/HTML, a bit javascript and Mysql, it's 
for internal use at a company. All info I need I can find online.

And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart as main language, 
it's free, it's the future, many devs are going that way.

It supports Android, iOs, web and even building an executable for 
Windows is on it's way.

Costs: time.

____________

Next to this, I also do not understand those dozens of emails I get 
begging for money to buy them tickets to New York.

What would that help the language forward except some awareness of that 
it exists?

Thousands of people loose their jobs these days with this Corona shit, 
many companies (read at least 50%) in Netherlands get support money from 
the government to stay alive and else they are broke. Due to all the 
lockdowns.

And here LC is begging for ticket money, I don't see the logic.

__________________

Op 13-2-2021 om 13:37 schreef Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode:
> I was told last year that HTML5 deployment would see upgrades maybe by
> Jan2021 LC 9.7. However LC9.6.2 is still awaiting an RC3. So it?s just not
> going to happen. My client and I are severely disappointed to see that the
> conference set up for 2022 may be the FIRST LOOK we might see for the HTML5
> upgrade. Actually, disappointed doesn?t even close to cut it. I am
> seriously LIVID! Absolute proof that subscription model for this is
> pointless. It pisses me right off that promise after promise I keep falling
> for this crap. I?m paying something like $400 on top of the original $400
> per year for this kind of service. I CANNOT afford to keep doing this with
> vague empty unfulfilled promises (lies). I KEEP falling for it because the
> likes of others on this forum keep trying to convince me that they have our
> best interests at heart. But keep forgetting that this is BS too.
>
> Roadmap = careering off a cliff top.  Clean up projected for New York 2022.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 at 12:16, Richmond via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I've said something to that effect earlier, at which point I was jumped
>> all over.
>>
>> So, because I don't want to be jumped all over again, and because
>> saying the 'roadmap' needs to be updated will have no effect (didn't the
>> last 3 times),
>> I'm NOT stating what I think.
>>
>> Love. kisses, and other things,
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 12.02.21 14:12, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> see subject -> Last Updated on July 14, 2020
>>> I think it is time to update the roadmap, what do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Klaus
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>



From dsquance at telus.net  Sat Feb 13 20:16:05 2021
From: dsquance at telus.net (David Squance)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 17:16:05 -0800
Subject: Livecode IDE question--SOLVED (to a point)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1613235601.314874.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1613235601.314874.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9CBACEA2-DF3D-4BD5-8238-67E258D4AE3B@telus.net>

Thanks for the tip. Works nicely.

Dave

I?m having a similar problem on my new MBP, and haven?t figured out  the cause yet. Just type this in the message box for an temporary fix:

	set the top of stack revMenubar to 25 - - - or so


Roger

From curry at pair.com  Sun Feb 14 05:31:47 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 05:31:47 -0500
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <0b7cac08-acda-81e8-c8f3-f36b4c1d197c@gmail.com>
References: <0b7cac08-acda-81e8-c8f3-f36b4c1d197c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7e68bf95-4256-3145-3edc-eab2a3756009@pair.com>


JeeJeeStudio:

 > I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations,
 > lot of bugs are not solved.

True. Would be more accurate with "yet" added; solving bugs is ongoing!
We could also say that many bugs HAVE been solved. Moderate progress.
(I know, having been on the front lines of the bug-reporting battle.)

I attribute bug density to dev strategy during the "Great Refactoring."
Good: Kickstarter project threw money/man-hours at LC to achieve a lot.
Bad: Code quality was mediocre; lots of bugs introduced at that time.
(We are STILL finding and reporting LC 7 and 8 bugs.)

Problem: Digging out from under myriad bugs takes big money/man-hours.
Meanwhile: Platforms, especially Apple and Mobile, are moving targets.

Traditional solution: Use a new campaign, like FM, for cashflow.
Underlying philosophy: Quality = energy/money/time.
Potential weakness: History could repeat itself. New code quality??

My proposed solution: Decrease net bugs with more careful coding.
Underlying philosophy: New code should be good code. (Almost zero-sum.)
Potential weakness: Too late for the Refactoring; only useful from now.

 > Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of
 > people to program. But it runs behind future facts.

Some truth there too, but it misses a (gigantic) point. In fact, two:

A. A good IDE is not ONLY about features, bugs, and platforms.
B. LC's benefit is not ONLY about being easy to learn. (When it is.)

If that's the only reason you're here, you don't understand LC!

And you're not the only one. Even those at the top have missed it.
Raney failed to see it: He considered MC a stepping stone to C.
LC Ltd also missed part of it: many unique benefits under-promoted.
And the way some features are added CONTRADICTS the LC paradigm.

LiveCode - and the legacy of HyperCard - is not Just Another IDE.
People have usually failed miserably at explaining the magic.
("Easy English-like language?" Way too vague! Also missing the point.)
Too few good analyses, too much parroting weak/transient slogans.

I intend to do a bit myself in that area soon, explaining what HC/LC is.
(I had health/energy problems, thus some detractors, but they'll see!)
The unique strengths of LC paradigm -yes, paradigm- deserve attention.
That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list.

That paradigm is why many of us are here: not just a handy-dandy tool.
It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
This paradigm has extreme value; likely more than even LC Ltd realizes.
That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list!

Growing the audience again requires understanding/promoting that value.
You can't just swap in any XYZ tool/language for LC. It ain't the same!
Nor is success ONLY about winning the feature and platform arms race.
That, but so much more. Paradigm is key. It has been neglected too long.

We must MAKE THE CASE for LC. Some have tried (thanks!) but not enough.
I feel paradigm is equally important to explain to LC Ltd, as to users.

 > HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way..

Not much argument there! Hopefully good things coming.

 > And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart
 > as main language, it's free, it's the future

Thanks for sharing that. It looks pretty good.
However, really the future? Maybe not!
End of LC? "Hell no!" :D

(At least, if LC Ltd play their hand well.)

Again, there's #1. Paradigm - more on that soon, when I have time.
But also several other factors in play:

2. Current and future tech changes; you ain't seen nothing yet!
3. Mega corp competition; Apple & others will frequently reinvent.
4. Tech giant control; Silicon Valley oversteps, people will push back.
5. Corporations are good at innovation, also good at screwing up.

The control factor might bite Google and Apple soon:
should I build there, when Powers That Be can pull the plug anytime?
Increasingly, the big guys don't follow their own rules; it's arbitrary.

Tip: they just love control, whether visual fashion trends or ideology.
What they encourage one year may become a "sin" the next. (Hi, Apple!)
Very often it's simply dollars and cents; more control means more fees.

Meanwhile, you're at the mercy of their tech whims.
Whatever they think should be the new trend, you must do.
Modern corporate strategy is to reinvent for profit; relentless change.

Factor #5 is also big for me. Remember how Google would "fix" search?
They "fixed" it alright! They killed it; try searching a non-trend.

So do I want to leap into Google's IDE?

Trust them to "fix" software development? To decide what I should do?
To reinvent every 5 minutes if the corporate bottom line demands it?
To see the present and the future more clearly than I do myself?
Bow to their proverbial calf and kiss their toes since they're big?

So incredibly tempting...(not really)...no thanks! :)
I gave them a chance to improve the Internet, and they maimed it.
With that much money and men, the only explanation is being clueless!
Thus there's no chance in Hell that I'd ever trust them to be my IDE.

Nor would that in any way replace the special paradigm we enjoy here.

I'm one of the few who are all-in for LC:
100% specialized in this IDE/language. And loving it!!!
(Except the problems we've discussed here; but I've adjusted tactics.)

I believe LC will grow, if they play their cards right.
They were dealt a fabulous hand! I'll help on the paradigm when I can.
The colossal failure to explain LC's strengths has been a roadblock.

LiveCode (owing much to its heritage) is a fantastic product.
It's not Yet Another language/tool that can be swapped out easily.
That may require deeper understanding to realize. We can work on that.
There are problems, but things are actually pretty good right now!
(With GOOD tactics. And some woes due to Apple/industry $$$ strategy.)

Richmond:

 > because I don't want to be jumped all over again [...]
 > I'm NOT stating what I think.
 > Love. kisses, and other things,

I can only speak for me. (I'm independent, not a thought herd groupie.)
But I must say that I enjoy your posts MUCH more than most!

You really have a way of bringing the conversation to life. That helps.
Never a dull moment or dull phrase, and you have some good insights too.

So keep at it - sometimes criticism means you're doing something right!
If people jump on you, they may be hoping for a trampoline effect.
But you know trampolines: fun, but one wrong twist = a bad bruise.
So don't give up. I'm a fan; hope you keep making interesting posts!

Worth repeating:

LiveCode (and HyperCard's heritage) is a fantastic product.
It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
Even those at the top have missed parts of paradigm and unique benefits.
Things are pretty good right now, if you have adapted GOOD tactics!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From e.beugelaar at me.com  Sun Feb 14 10:29:47 2021
From: e.beugelaar at me.com (e.beugelaar at me.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 15:29:47 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <7e68bf95-4256-3145-3edc-eab2a3756009@pair.com>
References: <0b7cac08-acda-81e8-c8f3-f36b4c1d197c@gmail.com>,
 <7e68bf95-4256-3145-3edc-eab2a3756009@pair.com>
Message-ID: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 11:31:47 AM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
Subject: Re: LC Roadmap


JeeJeeStudio:

 > I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations,
 > lot of bugs are not solved.

True. Would be more accurate with "yet" added; solving bugs is ongoing!
We could also say that many bugs HAVE been solved. Moderate progress.
(I know, having been on the front lines of the bug-reporting battle.)

I attribute bug density to dev strategy during the "Great Refactoring."
Good: Kickstarter project threw money/man-hours at LC to achieve a lot.
Bad: Code quality was mediocre; lots of bugs introduced at that time.
(We are STILL finding and reporting LC 7 and 8 bugs.)

Problem: Digging out from under myriad bugs takes big money/man-hours.
Meanwhile: Platforms, especially Apple and Mobile, are moving targets.

Traditional solution: Use a new campaign, like FM, for cashflow.
Underlying philosophy: Quality = energy/money/time.
Potential weakness: History could repeat itself. New code quality??

My proposed solution: Decrease net bugs with more careful coding.
Underlying philosophy: New code should be good code. (Almost zero-sum.)
Potential weakness: Too late for the Refactoring; only useful from now.

 > Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of
 > people to program. But it runs behind future facts.

Some truth there too, but it misses a (gigantic) point. In fact, two:

A. A good IDE is not ONLY about features, bugs, and platforms.
B. LC's benefit is not ONLY about being easy to learn. (When it is.)

If that's the only reason you're here, you don't understand LC!

And you're not the only one. Even those at the top have missed it.
Raney failed to see it: He considered MC a stepping stone to C.
LC Ltd also missed part of it: many unique benefits under-promoted.
And the way some features are added CONTRADICTS the LC paradigm.

LiveCode - and the legacy of HyperCard - is not Just Another IDE.
People have usually failed miserably at explaining the magic.
("Easy English-like language?" Way too vague! Also missing the point.)
Too few good analyses, too much parroting weak/transient slogans.

I intend to do a bit myself in that area soon, explaining what HC/LC is.
(I had health/energy problems, thus some detractors, but they'll see!)
The unique strengths of LC paradigm -yes, paradigm- deserve attention.
That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list.

That paradigm is why many of us are here: not just a handy-dandy tool.
It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
This paradigm has extreme value; likely more than even LC Ltd realizes.
That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list!

Growing the audience again requires understanding/promoting that value.
You can't just swap in any XYZ tool/language for LC. It ain't the same!
Nor is success ONLY about winning the feature and platform arms race.
That, but so much more. Paradigm is key. It has been neglected too long.

We must MAKE THE CASE for LC. Some have tried (thanks!) but not enough.
I feel paradigm is equally important to explain to LC Ltd, as to users.

 > HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way..

Not much argument there! Hopefully good things coming.

 > And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart
 > as main language, it's free, it's the future

Thanks for sharing that. It looks pretty good.
However, really the future? Maybe not!
End of LC? "Hell no!" :D

(At least, if LC Ltd play their hand well.)

Again, there's #1. Paradigm - more on that soon, when I have time.
But also several other factors in play:

2. Current and future tech changes; you ain't seen nothing yet!
3. Mega corp competition; Apple & others will frequently reinvent.
4. Tech giant control; Silicon Valley oversteps, people will push back.
5. Corporations are good at innovation, also good at screwing up.

The control factor might bite Google and Apple soon:
should I build there, when Powers That Be can pull the plug anytime?
Increasingly, the big guys don't follow their own rules; it's arbitrary.

Tip: they just love control, whether visual fashion trends or ideology.
What they encourage one year may become a "sin" the next. (Hi, Apple!)
Very often it's simply dollars and cents; more control means more fees.

Meanwhile, you're at the mercy of their tech whims.
Whatever they think should be the new trend, you must do.
Modern corporate strategy is to reinvent for profit; relentless change.

Factor #5 is also big for me. Remember how Google would "fix" search?
They "fixed" it alright! They killed it; try searching a non-trend.

So do I want to leap into Google's IDE?

Trust them to "fix" software development? To decide what I should do?
To reinvent every 5 minutes if the corporate bottom line demands it?
To see the present and the future more clearly than I do myself?
Bow to their proverbial calf and kiss their toes since they're big?

So incredibly tempting...(not really)...no thanks! :)
I gave them a chance to improve the Internet, and they maimed it.
With that much money and men, the only explanation is being clueless!
Thus there's no chance in Hell that I'd ever trust them to be my IDE.

Nor would that in any way replace the special paradigm we enjoy here.

I'm one of the few who are all-in for LC:
100% specialized in this IDE/language. And loving it!!!
(Except the problems we've discussed here; but I've adjusted tactics.)

I believe LC will grow, if they play their cards right.
They were dealt a fabulous hand! I'll help on the paradigm when I can.
The colossal failure to explain LC's strengths has been a roadblock.

LiveCode (owing much to its heritage) is a fantastic product.
It's not Yet Another language/tool that can be swapped out easily.
That may require deeper understanding to realize. We can work on that.
There are problems, but things are actually pretty good right now!
(With GOOD tactics. And some woes due to Apple/industry $$$ strategy.)

Richmond:

 > because I don't want to be jumped all over again [...]
 > I'm NOT stating what I think.
 > Love. kisses, and other things,

I can only speak for me. (I'm independent, not a thought herd groupie.)
But I must say that I enjoy your posts MUCH more than most!

You really have a way of bringing the conversation to life. That helps.
Never a dull moment or dull phrase, and you have some good insights too.

So keep at it - sometimes criticism means you're doing something right!
If people jump on you, they may be hoping for a trampoline effect.
But you know trampolines: fun, but one wrong twist = a bad bruise.
So don't give up. I'm a fan; hope you keep making interesting posts!

Worth repeating:

LiveCode (and HyperCard's heritage) is a fantastic product.
It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
Even those at the top have missed parts of paradigm and unique benefits.
Things are pretty good right now, if you have adapted GOOD tactics!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 11:02:31 2021
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 18:02:31 +0200
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <0b7cac08-acda-81e8-c8f3-f36b4c1d197c@gmail.com>
 <7e68bf95-4256-3145-3edc-eab2a3756009@pair.com>
 <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <1995e8be-36e3-1f7a-993d-fdca57220bba@gmail.com>

I don't want any headaches, but as I develop on Macintosh and Linux B4X 
is no good.

On 14.02.21 17:29, e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode wrote:
> https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.
>
> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>
> ________________________________
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 11:31:47 AM
> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> Subject: Re: LC Roadmap
>
>
> JeeJeeStudio:
>
>   > I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations,
>   > lot of bugs are not solved.
>
> True. Would be more accurate with "yet" added; solving bugs is ongoing!
> We could also say that many bugs HAVE been solved. Moderate progress.
> (I know, having been on the front lines of the bug-reporting battle.)
>
> I attribute bug density to dev strategy during the "Great Refactoring."
> Good: Kickstarter project threw money/man-hours at LC to achieve a lot.
> Bad: Code quality was mediocre; lots of bugs introduced at that time.
> (We are STILL finding and reporting LC 7 and 8 bugs.)
>
> Problem: Digging out from under myriad bugs takes big money/man-hours.
> Meanwhile: Platforms, especially Apple and Mobile, are moving targets.
>
> Traditional solution: Use a new campaign, like FM, for cashflow.
> Underlying philosophy: Quality = energy/money/time.
> Potential weakness: History could repeat itself. New code quality??
>
> My proposed solution: Decrease net bugs with more careful coding.
> Underlying philosophy: New code should be good code. (Almost zero-sum.)
> Potential weakness: Too late for the Refactoring; only useful from now.
>
>   > Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of
>   > people to program. But it runs behind future facts.
>
> Some truth there too, but it misses a (gigantic) point. In fact, two:
>
> A. A good IDE is not ONLY about features, bugs, and platforms.
> B. LC's benefit is not ONLY about being easy to learn. (When it is.)
>
> If that's the only reason you're here, you don't understand LC!
>
> And you're not the only one. Even those at the top have missed it.
> Raney failed to see it: He considered MC a stepping stone to C.
> LC Ltd also missed part of it: many unique benefits under-promoted.
> And the way some features are added CONTRADICTS the LC paradigm.
>
> LiveCode - and the legacy of HyperCard - is not Just Another IDE.
> People have usually failed miserably at explaining the magic.
> ("Easy English-like language?" Way too vague! Also missing the point.)
> Too few good analyses, too much parroting weak/transient slogans.
>
> I intend to do a bit myself in that area soon, explaining what HC/LC is.
> (I had health/energy problems, thus some detractors, but they'll see!)
> The unique strengths of LC paradigm -yes, paradigm- deserve attention.
> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list.
>
> That paradigm is why many of us are here: not just a handy-dandy tool.
> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
> This paradigm has extreme value; likely more than even LC Ltd realizes.
> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list!
>
> Growing the audience again requires understanding/promoting that value.
> You can't just swap in any XYZ tool/language for LC. It ain't the same!
> Nor is success ONLY about winning the feature and platform arms race.
> That, but so much more. Paradigm is key. It has been neglected too long.
>
> We must MAKE THE CASE for LC. Some have tried (thanks!) but not enough.
> I feel paradigm is equally important to explain to LC Ltd, as to users.
>
>   > HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way..
>
> Not much argument there! Hopefully good things coming.
>
>   > And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart
>   > as main language, it's free, it's the future
>
> Thanks for sharing that. It looks pretty good.
> However, really the future? Maybe not!
> End of LC? "Hell no!" :D
>
> (At least, if LC Ltd play their hand well.)
>
> Again, there's #1. Paradigm - more on that soon, when I have time.
> But also several other factors in play:
>
> 2. Current and future tech changes; you ain't seen nothing yet!
> 3. Mega corp competition; Apple & others will frequently reinvent.
> 4. Tech giant control; Silicon Valley oversteps, people will push back.
> 5. Corporations are good at innovation, also good at screwing up.
>
> The control factor might bite Google and Apple soon:
> should I build there, when Powers That Be can pull the plug anytime?
> Increasingly, the big guys don't follow their own rules; it's arbitrary.
>
> Tip: they just love control, whether visual fashion trends or ideology.
> What they encourage one year may become a "sin" the next. (Hi, Apple!)
> Very often it's simply dollars and cents; more control means more fees.
>
> Meanwhile, you're at the mercy of their tech whims.
> Whatever they think should be the new trend, you must do.
> Modern corporate strategy is to reinvent for profit; relentless change.
>
> Factor #5 is also big for me. Remember how Google would "fix" search?
> They "fixed" it alright! They killed it; try searching a non-trend.
>
> So do I want to leap into Google's IDE?
>
> Trust them to "fix" software development? To decide what I should do?
> To reinvent every 5 minutes if the corporate bottom line demands it?
> To see the present and the future more clearly than I do myself?
> Bow to their proverbial calf and kiss their toes since they're big?
>
> So incredibly tempting...(not really)...no thanks! :)
> I gave them a chance to improve the Internet, and they maimed it.
> With that much money and men, the only explanation is being clueless!
> Thus there's no chance in Hell that I'd ever trust them to be my IDE.
>
> Nor would that in any way replace the special paradigm we enjoy here.
>
> I'm one of the few who are all-in for LC:
> 100% specialized in this IDE/language. And loving it!!!
> (Except the problems we've discussed here; but I've adjusted tactics.)
>
> I believe LC will grow, if they play their cards right.
> They were dealt a fabulous hand! I'll help on the paradigm when I can.
> The colossal failure to explain LC's strengths has been a roadblock.
>
> LiveCode (owing much to its heritage) is a fantastic product.
> It's not Yet Another language/tool that can be swapped out easily.
> That may require deeper understanding to realize. We can work on that.
> There are problems, but things are actually pretty good right now!
> (With GOOD tactics. And some woes due to Apple/industry $$$ strategy.)
>
> Richmond:
>
>   > because I don't want to be jumped all over again [...]
>   > I'm NOT stating what I think.
>   > Love. kisses, and other things,
>
> I can only speak for me. (I'm independent, not a thought herd groupie.)
> But I must say that I enjoy your posts MUCH more than most!
>
> You really have a way of bringing the conversation to life. That helps.
> Never a dull moment or dull phrase, and you have some good insights too.
>
> So keep at it - sometimes criticism means you're doing something right!
> If people jump on you, they may be hoping for a trampoline effect.
> But you know trampolines: fun, but one wrong twist = a bad bruise.
> So don't give up. I'm a fan; hope you keep making interesting posts!
>
> Worth repeating:
>
> LiveCode (and HyperCard's heritage) is a fantastic product.
> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
> Even those at the top have missed parts of paradigm and unique benefits.
> Things are pretty good right now, if you have adapted GOOD tactics!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Sun Feb 14 12:25:11 2021
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 09:25:11 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>

 Curry,
Your comments echo some of my experiences with Livecode. In olden times, when I realized that I could significantly improve my students? learning by enlisting computers, I began with HyperCard, went to Supercard, and when it failed at cross platform, I went to Macromedia Director.  I?ve programmed in FORTRAN, Pascal. When Adobe bought and killed Director, I switched my coding to LiveCode.

I still miss Director. It?s animation capabilities and web deployment with a plug-in were excellent. Of course, plug-ins are obsolete and mobile support has become mandatory. The big selling point that is front and center is: English like language. I find that a very weak claim, unless all I want to do is write ?Hello World? when I click a button. To do anything non-trivial, you need to delve into coder world. Yes, it is enormously helpful at building user interfaces. Deployment is an enormous pain, with ever changing security challenges. The help files are great at the most trivial tasks, but to do beyond can be challenging. That said, I am committed to Livecode and congratulate the dev team for their accomplishments.

I would like to see:
Better help files that go deeper. Have you seen MacMost.com? This is a guy who produces quicky videos for free, and offers more detailed courses for a modest subscription fee. I don?t know whether there are enough potential clients for this, but what if a small team of live coders created something like this that would create modest size youtube videos that both bring in new users and take them to the next level with video, sample projects, and text materials? Perhaps the mothership could support and advise while user Fees pass to the authors. Just thinking.

That?s all for now. Valentine?s Day and breakfast beckon.

Best,
Bill Prothero





William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 7:30 AM, e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.
> 
> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> 
> ________________________________
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 11:31:47 AM
> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> Subject: Re: LC Roadmap
> 
> 
> JeeJeeStudio:
> 
>> I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations,
>> lot of bugs are not solved.
> 
> True. Would be more accurate with "yet" added; solving bugs is ongoing!
> We could also say that many bugs HAVE been solved. Moderate progress.
> (I know, having been on the front lines of the bug-reporting battle.)
> 
> I attribute bug density to dev strategy during the "Great Refactoring."
> Good: Kickstarter project threw money/man-hours at LC to achieve a lot.
> Bad: Code quality was mediocre; lots of bugs introduced at that time.
> (We are STILL finding and reporting LC 7 and 8 bugs.)
> 
> Problem: Digging out from under myriad bugs takes big money/man-hours.
> Meanwhile: Platforms, especially Apple and Mobile, are moving targets.
> 
> Traditional solution: Use a new campaign, like FM, for cashflow.
> Underlying philosophy: Quality = energy/money/time.
> Potential weakness: History could repeat itself. New code quality??
> 
> My proposed solution: Decrease net bugs with more careful coding.
> Underlying philosophy: New code should be good code. (Almost zero-sum.)
> Potential weakness: Too late for the Refactoring; only useful from now.
> 
>> Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of
>> people to program. But it runs behind future facts.
> 
> Some truth there too, but it misses a (gigantic) point. In fact, two:
> 
> A. A good IDE is not ONLY about features, bugs, and platforms.
> B. LC's benefit is not ONLY about being easy to learn. (When it is.)
> 
> If that's the only reason you're here, you don't understand LC!
> 
> And you're not the only one. Even those at the top have missed it.
> Raney failed to see it: He considered MC a stepping stone to C.
> LC Ltd also missed part of it: many unique benefits under-promoted.
> And the way some features are added CONTRADICTS the LC paradigm.
> 
> LiveCode - and the legacy of HyperCard - is not Just Another IDE.
> People have usually failed miserably at explaining the magic.
> ("Easy English-like language?" Way too vague! Also missing the point.)
> Too few good analyses, too much parroting weak/transient slogans.
> 
> I intend to do a bit myself in that area soon, explaining what HC/LC is.
> (I had health/energy problems, thus some detractors, but they'll see!)
> The unique strengths of LC paradigm -yes, paradigm- deserve attention.
> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list.
> 
> That paradigm is why many of us are here: not just a handy-dandy tool.
> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
> This paradigm has extreme value; likely more than even LC Ltd realizes.
> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list!
> 
> Growing the audience again requires understanding/promoting that value.
> You can't just swap in any XYZ tool/language for LC. It ain't the same!
> Nor is success ONLY about winning the feature and platform arms race.
> That, but so much more. Paradigm is key. It has been neglected too long.
> 
> We must MAKE THE CASE for LC. Some have tried (thanks!) but not enough.
> I feel paradigm is equally important to explain to LC Ltd, as to users.
> 
>> HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way..
> 
> Not much argument there! Hopefully good things coming.
> 
>> And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart
>> as main language, it's free, it's the future
> 
> Thanks for sharing that. It looks pretty good.
> However, really the future? Maybe not!
> End of LC? "Hell no!" :D
> 
> (At least, if LC Ltd play their hand well.)
> 
> Again, there's #1. Paradigm - more on that soon, when I have time.
> But also several other factors in play:
> 
> 2. Current and future tech changes; you ain't seen nothing yet!
> 3. Mega corp competition; Apple & others will frequently reinvent.
> 4. Tech giant control; Silicon Valley oversteps, people will push back.
> 5. Corporations are good at innovation, also good at screwing up.
> 
> The control factor might bite Google and Apple soon:
> should I build there, when Powers That Be can pull the plug anytime?
> Increasingly, the big guys don't follow their own rules; it's arbitrary.
> 
> Tip: they just love control, whether visual fashion trends or ideology.
> What they encourage one year may become a "sin" the next. (Hi, Apple!)
> Very often it's simply dollars and cents; more control means more fees.
> 
> Meanwhile, you're at the mercy of their tech whims.
> Whatever they think should be the new trend, you must do.
> Modern corporate strategy is to reinvent for profit; relentless change.
> 
> Factor #5 is also big for me. Remember how Google would "fix" search?
> They "fixed" it alright! They killed it; try searching a non-trend.
> 
> So do I want to leap into Google's IDE?
> 
> Trust them to "fix" software development? To decide what I should do?
> To reinvent every 5 minutes if the corporate bottom line demands it?
> To see the present and the future more clearly than I do myself?
> Bow to their proverbial calf and kiss their toes since they're big?
> 
> So incredibly tempting...(not really)...no thanks! :)
> I gave them a chance to improve the Internet, and they maimed it.
> With that much money and men, the only explanation is being clueless!
> Thus there's no chance in Hell that I'd ever trust them to be my IDE.
> 
> Nor would that in any way replace the special paradigm we enjoy here.
> 
> I'm one of the few who are all-in for LC:
> 100% specialized in this IDE/language. And loving it!!!
> (Except the problems we've discussed here; but I've adjusted tactics.)
> 
> I believe LC will grow, if they play their cards right.
> They were dealt a fabulous hand! I'll help on the paradigm when I can.
> The colossal failure to explain LC's strengths has been a roadblock.
> 
> LiveCode (owing much to its heritage) is a fantastic product.
> It's not Yet Another language/tool that can be swapped out easily.
> That may require deeper understanding to realize. We can work on that.
> There are problems, but things are actually pretty good right now!
> (With GOOD tactics. And some woes due to Apple/industry $$$ strategy.)
> 
> Richmond:
> 
>> because I don't want to be jumped all over again [...]
>> I'm NOT stating what I think.
>> Love. kisses, and other things,
> 
> I can only speak for me. (I'm independent, not a thought herd groupie.)
> But I must say that I enjoy your posts MUCH more than most!
> 
> You really have a way of bringing the conversation to life. That helps.
> Never a dull moment or dull phrase, and you have some good insights too.
> 
> So keep at it - sometimes criticism means you're doing something right!
> If people jump on you, they may be hoping for a trampoline effect.
> But you know trampolines: fun, but one wrong twist = a bad bruise.
> So don't give up. I'm a fan; hope you keep making interesting posts!
> 
> Worth repeating:
> 
> LiveCode (and HyperCard's heritage) is a fantastic product.
> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
> Even those at the top have missed parts of paradigm and unique benefits.
> Things are pretty good right now, if you have adapted GOOD tactics!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb 14 13:43:47 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 12:43:47 -0600
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

There is a whole lot more at http://lessons.livecode.com. While these 
aren't videos, the amount of info there is impressive and lessons are added 
all the time.

Personally I find written instructions much easier to follow and they don't 
require me to spend extra time watching a video and needing to 
run/pause/run/search for the section I want to review.

The lessons site should be prominently displayed in the Help menu.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 14, 2021 11:27:24 AM ELS Prothero via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Curry,
> Your comments echo some of my experiences with Livecode. In olden times, 
> when I realized that I could significantly improve my students? learning by 
> enlisting computers, I began with HyperCard, went to Supercard, and when it 
> failed at cross platform, I went to Macromedia Director.  I?ve programmed 
> in FORTRAN, Pascal. When Adobe bought and killed Director, I switched my 
> coding to LiveCode.
>
> I still miss Director. It?s animation capabilities and web deployment with 
> a plug-in were excellent. Of course, plug-ins are obsolete and mobile 
> support has become mandatory. The big selling point that is front and 
> center is: English like language. I find that a very weak claim, unless all 
> I want to do is write ?Hello World? when I click a button. To do anything 
> non-trivial, you need to delve into coder world. Yes, it is enormously 
> helpful at building user interfaces. Deployment is an enormous pain, with 
> ever changing security challenges. The help files are great at the most 
> trivial tasks, but to do beyond can be challenging. That said, I am 
> committed to Livecode and congratulate the dev team for their accomplishments.
>
> I would like to see:
> Better help files that go deeper. Have you seen MacMost.com? This is a guy 
> who produces quicky videos for free, and offers more detailed courses for a 
> modest subscription fee. I don?t know whether there are enough potential 
> clients for this, but what if a small team of live coders created something 
> like this that would create modest size youtube videos that both bring in 
> new users and take them to the next level with video, sample projects, and 
> text materials? Perhaps the mothership could support and advise while user 
> Fees pass to the authors. Just thinking.





From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Sun Feb 14 13:57:46 2021
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:57:46 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <CA66A63D-64CE-4B50-AB3C-FE0AAE9DE489@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Folks, a bit more:
Both documentation and marketing are huge tasks and keeping even basic documentation current is a big job. A few years ago, I tried the lessons that were produced by the livecode team to help folks create basic Apple apps. In my view, they were a failure. First, they seemed either buggy or lacked attention to non-specialist assumptions in the presentation, confusing me. They needed to be reviewed and vetted by beginning programmers. Secondly, they quickly became obsolete. Lots of effort for a mediocre showing.

This is a task where livecoders could contribute with carefully vetted modules, like those in macmost.com <http://macmost.com/>. There would need to be a presentation framework that contributors fit into. Contributions would need to be reviewed (and authored), perhaps by livecoders who have already purchased livecode subscriptions. Coding practices would have to be reviewed and be clean. Purchase fees would be collected by the mothership and distributed to authors. This would benefit the mothership by bringing in new users who would subscribe to the software. There should be user feedback and requests for specific lessons, which a member of the contribution team (all subscribers?) could take on. Lessons would get reviewed by purchasers and authors would also get ratings.

This project would be best if tightly coupled to the dev team and its control. The justification for giving fees to authors is that it would be enormously to the benefit of the mothership to have this resource, both by supporting existing users and gaining new ones.

Happy Valentine?s day,
Every day is ?Valentine?s Day? (if your name is Valentine),

Best,
Bill Prothero


> On Feb 14, 2021, at 9:25 AM, ELS Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Curry,
> Your comments echo some of my experiences with Livecode. In olden times, when I realized that I could significantly improve my students? learning by enlisting computers, I began with HyperCard, went to Supercard, and when it failed at cross platform, I went to Macromedia Director.  I?ve programmed in FORTRAN, Pascal. When Adobe bought and killed Director, I switched my coding to LiveCode.
> 
> I still miss Director. It?s animation capabilities and web deployment with a plug-in were excellent. Of course, plug-ins are obsolete and mobile support has become mandatory. The big selling point that is front and center is: English like language. I find that a very weak claim, unless all I want to do is write ?Hello World? when I click a button. To do anything non-trivial, you need to delve into coder world. Yes, it is enormously helpful at building user interfaces. Deployment is an enormous pain, with ever changing security challenges. The help files are great at the most trivial tasks, but to do beyond can be challenging. That said, I am committed to Livecode and congratulate the dev team for their accomplishments.
> 
> I would like to see:
> Better help files that go deeper. Have you seen MacMost.com? This is a guy who produces quicky videos for free, and offers more detailed courses for a modest subscription fee. I don?t know whether there are enough potential clients for this, but what if a small team of live coders created something like this that would create modest size youtube videos that both bring in new users and take them to the next level with video, sample projects, and text materials? Perhaps the mothership could support and advise while user Fees pass to the authors. Just thinking.
> 
> That?s all for now. Valentine?s Day and breakfast beckon.
> 
> Best,
> Bill Prothero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 7:30 AM, e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.
>> 
>> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 11:31:47 AM
>> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
>> Subject: Re: LC Roadmap
>> 
>> 
>> JeeJeeStudio:
>> 
>>> I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations,
>>> lot of bugs are not solved.
>> 
>> True. Would be more accurate with "yet" added; solving bugs is ongoing!
>> We could also say that many bugs HAVE been solved. Moderate progress.
>> (I know, having been on the front lines of the bug-reporting battle.)
>> 
>> I attribute bug density to dev strategy during the "Great Refactoring."
>> Good: Kickstarter project threw money/man-hours at LC to achieve a lot.
>> Bad: Code quality was mediocre; lots of bugs introduced at that time.
>> (We are STILL finding and reporting LC 7 and 8 bugs.)
>> 
>> Problem: Digging out from under myriad bugs takes big money/man-hours.
>> Meanwhile: Platforms, especially Apple and Mobile, are moving targets.
>> 
>> Traditional solution: Use a new campaign, like FM, for cashflow.
>> Underlying philosophy: Quality = energy/money/time.
>> Potential weakness: History could repeat itself. New code quality??
>> 
>> My proposed solution: Decrease net bugs with more careful coding.
>> Underlying philosophy: New code should be good code. (Almost zero-sum.)
>> Potential weakness: Too late for the Refactoring; only useful from now.
>> 
>>> Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of
>>> people to program. But it runs behind future facts.
>> 
>> Some truth there too, but it misses a (gigantic) point. In fact, two:
>> 
>> A. A good IDE is not ONLY about features, bugs, and platforms.
>> B. LC's benefit is not ONLY about being easy to learn. (When it is.)
>> 
>> If that's the only reason you're here, you don't understand LC!
>> 
>> And you're not the only one. Even those at the top have missed it.
>> Raney failed to see it: He considered MC a stepping stone to C.
>> LC Ltd also missed part of it: many unique benefits under-promoted.
>> And the way some features are added CONTRADICTS the LC paradigm.
>> 
>> LiveCode - and the legacy of HyperCard - is not Just Another IDE.
>> People have usually failed miserably at explaining the magic.
>> ("Easy English-like language?" Way too vague! Also missing the point.)
>> Too few good analyses, too much parroting weak/transient slogans.
>> 
>> I intend to do a bit myself in that area soon, explaining what HC/LC is.
>> (I had health/energy problems, thus some detractors, but they'll see!)
>> The unique strengths of LC paradigm -yes, paradigm- deserve attention.
>> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list.
>> 
>> That paradigm is why many of us are here: not just a handy-dandy tool.
>> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
>> This paradigm has extreme value; likely more than even LC Ltd realizes.
>> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list!
>> 
>> Growing the audience again requires understanding/promoting that value.
>> You can't just swap in any XYZ tool/language for LC. It ain't the same!
>> Nor is success ONLY about winning the feature and platform arms race.
>> That, but so much more. Paradigm is key. It has been neglected too long.
>> 
>> We must MAKE THE CASE for LC. Some have tried (thanks!) but not enough.
>> I feel paradigm is equally important to explain to LC Ltd, as to users.
>> 
>>> HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way..
>> 
>> Not much argument there! Hopefully good things coming.
>> 
>>> And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart
>>> as main language, it's free, it's the future
>> 
>> Thanks for sharing that. It looks pretty good.
>> However, really the future? Maybe not!
>> End of LC? "Hell no!" :D
>> 
>> (At least, if LC Ltd play their hand well.)
>> 
>> Again, there's #1. Paradigm - more on that soon, when I have time.
>> But also several other factors in play:
>> 
>> 2. Current and future tech changes; you ain't seen nothing yet!
>> 3. Mega corp competition; Apple & others will frequently reinvent.
>> 4. Tech giant control; Silicon Valley oversteps, people will push back.
>> 5. Corporations are good at innovation, also good at screwing up.
>> 
>> The control factor might bite Google and Apple soon:
>> should I build there, when Powers That Be can pull the plug anytime?
>> Increasingly, the big guys don't follow their own rules; it's arbitrary.
>> 
>> Tip: they just love control, whether visual fashion trends or ideology.
>> What they encourage one year may become a "sin" the next. (Hi, Apple!)
>> Very often it's simply dollars and cents; more control means more fees.
>> 
>> Meanwhile, you're at the mercy of their tech whims.
>> Whatever they think should be the new trend, you must do.
>> Modern corporate strategy is to reinvent for profit; relentless change.
>> 
>> Factor #5 is also big for me. Remember how Google would "fix" search?
>> They "fixed" it alright! They killed it; try searching a non-trend.
>> 
>> So do I want to leap into Google's IDE?
>> 
>> Trust them to "fix" software development? To decide what I should do?
>> To reinvent every 5 minutes if the corporate bottom line demands it?
>> To see the present and the future more clearly than I do myself?
>> Bow to their proverbial calf and kiss their toes since they're big?
>> 
>> So incredibly tempting...(not really)...no thanks! :)
>> I gave them a chance to improve the Internet, and they maimed it.
>> With that much money and men, the only explanation is being clueless!
>> Thus there's no chance in Hell that I'd ever trust them to be my IDE.
>> 
>> Nor would that in any way replace the special paradigm we enjoy here.
>> 
>> I'm one of the few who are all-in for LC:
>> 100% specialized in this IDE/language. And loving it!!!
>> (Except the problems we've discussed here; but I've adjusted tactics.)
>> 
>> I believe LC will grow, if they play their cards right.
>> They were dealt a fabulous hand! I'll help on the paradigm when I can.
>> The colossal failure to explain LC's strengths has been a roadblock.
>> 
>> LiveCode (owing much to its heritage) is a fantastic product.
>> It's not Yet Another language/tool that can be swapped out easily.
>> That may require deeper understanding to realize. We can work on that.
>> There are problems, but things are actually pretty good right now!
>> (With GOOD tactics. And some woes due to Apple/industry $$$ strategy.)
>> 
>> Richmond:
>> 
>>> because I don't want to be jumped all over again [...]
>>> I'm NOT stating what I think.
>>> Love. kisses, and other things,
>> 
>> I can only speak for me. (I'm independent, not a thought herd groupie.)
>> But I must say that I enjoy your posts MUCH more than most!
>> 
>> You really have a way of bringing the conversation to life. That helps.
>> Never a dull moment or dull phrase, and you have some good insights too.
>> 
>> So keep at it - sometimes criticism means you're doing something right!
>> If people jump on you, they may be hoping for a trampoline effect.
>> But you know trampolines: fun, but one wrong twist = a bad bruise.
>> So don't give up. I'm a fan; hope you keep making interesting posts!
>> 
>> Worth repeating:
>> 
>> LiveCode (and HyperCard's heritage) is a fantastic product.
>> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
>> Even those at the top have missed parts of paradigm and unique benefits.
>> Things are pretty good right now, if you have adapted GOOD tactics!
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Custom Software Development
>> "Better Methods, Better Results"
>> LiveCode Training and Consulting
>> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Feb 14 14:05:39 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 20:05:39 +0100
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <CA66A63D-64CE-4B50-AB3C-FE0AAE9DE489@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <CA66A63D-64CE-4B50-AB3C-FE0AAE9DE489@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <9BD52D26-757D-45BA-9FF8-CF2115EECD6C@m-r-d.de>

Every Livecoder who is interested in creating lessons or fixing outdated ones  can ask Livecode Support to get access to the Lessons section. 
Livecode will then create an account and will provide the tools for creating the lessons.
At least this was the fact when i asked if i could help.

Regards,

Matthias


> Am 14.02.2021 um 19:57 schrieb prothero--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Folks, a bit more:
> Both documentation and marketing are huge tasks and keeping even basic documentation current is a big job. A few years ago, I tried the lessons that were produced by the livecode team to help folks create basic Apple apps. In my view, they were a failure. First, they seemed either buggy or lacked attention to non-specialist assumptions in the presentation, confusing me. They needed to be reviewed and vetted by beginning programmers. Secondly, they quickly became obsolete. Lots of effort for a mediocre showing.
> 
> This is a task where livecoders could contribute with carefully vetted modules, like those in macmost.com <http://macmost.com/>. There would need to be a presentation framework that contributors fit into. Contributions would need to be reviewed (and authored), perhaps by livecoders who have already purchased livecode subscriptions. Coding practices would have to be reviewed and be clean. Purchase fees would be collected by the mothership and distributed to authors. This would benefit the mothership by bringing in new users who would subscribe to the software. There should be user feedback and requests for specific lessons, which a member of the contribution team (all subscribers?) could take on. Lessons would get reviewed by purchasers and authors would also get ratings.
> 
> This project would be best if tightly coupled to the dev team and its control. The justification for giving fees to authors is that it would be enormously to the benefit of the mothership to have this resource, both by supporting existing users and gaining new ones.
> 
> Happy Valentine?s day,
> Every day is ?Valentine?s Day? (if your name is Valentine),
> 
> Best,
> Bill Prothero
> 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 9:25 AM, ELS Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Curry,
>> Your comments echo some of my experiences with Livecode. In olden times, when I realized that I could significantly improve my students? learning by enlisting computers, I began with HyperCard, went to Supercard, and when it failed at cross platform, I went to Macromedia Director.  I?ve programmed in FORTRAN, Pascal. When Adobe bought and killed Director, I switched my coding to LiveCode.
>> 
>> I still miss Director. It?s animation capabilities and web deployment with a plug-in were excellent. Of course, plug-ins are obsolete and mobile support has become mandatory. The big selling point that is front and center is: English like language. I find that a very weak claim, unless all I want to do is write ?Hello World? when I click a button. To do anything non-trivial, you need to delve into coder world. Yes, it is enormously helpful at building user interfaces. Deployment is an enormous pain, with ever changing security challenges. The help files are great at the most trivial tasks, but to do beyond can be challenging. That said, I am committed to Livecode and congratulate the dev team for their accomplishments.
>> 
>> I would like to see:
>> Better help files that go deeper. Have you seen MacMost.com? This is a guy who produces quicky videos for free, and offers more detailed courses for a modest subscription fee. I don?t know whether there are enough potential clients for this, but what if a small team of live coders created something like this that would create modest size youtube videos that both bring in new users and take them to the next level with video, sample projects, and text materials? Perhaps the mothership could support and advise while user Fees pass to the authors. Just thinking.
>> 
>> That?s all for now. Valentine?s Day and breakfast beckon.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill Prothero
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 7:30 AM, e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.
>>> 
>>> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 11:31:47 AM
>>> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
>>> Subject: Re: LC Roadmap
>>> 
>>> 
>>> JeeJeeStudio:
>>> 
>>>> I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations,
>>>> lot of bugs are not solved.
>>> 
>>> True. Would be more accurate with "yet" added; solving bugs is ongoing!
>>> We could also say that many bugs HAVE been solved. Moderate progress.
>>> (I know, having been on the front lines of the bug-reporting battle.)
>>> 
>>> I attribute bug density to dev strategy during the "Great Refactoring."
>>> Good: Kickstarter project threw money/man-hours at LC to achieve a lot.
>>> Bad: Code quality was mediocre; lots of bugs introduced at that time.
>>> (We are STILL finding and reporting LC 7 and 8 bugs.)
>>> 
>>> Problem: Digging out from under myriad bugs takes big money/man-hours.
>>> Meanwhile: Platforms, especially Apple and Mobile, are moving targets.
>>> 
>>> Traditional solution: Use a new campaign, like FM, for cashflow.
>>> Underlying philosophy: Quality = energy/money/time.
>>> Potential weakness: History could repeat itself. New code quality??
>>> 
>>> My proposed solution: Decrease net bugs with more careful coding.
>>> Underlying philosophy: New code should be good code. (Almost zero-sum.)
>>> Potential weakness: Too late for the Refactoring; only useful from now.
>>> 
>>>> Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of
>>>> people to program. But it runs behind future facts.
>>> 
>>> Some truth there too, but it misses a (gigantic) point. In fact, two:
>>> 
>>> A. A good IDE is not ONLY about features, bugs, and platforms.
>>> B. LC's benefit is not ONLY about being easy to learn. (When it is.)
>>> 
>>> If that's the only reason you're here, you don't understand LC!
>>> 
>>> And you're not the only one. Even those at the top have missed it.
>>> Raney failed to see it: He considered MC a stepping stone to C.
>>> LC Ltd also missed part of it: many unique benefits under-promoted.
>>> And the way some features are added CONTRADICTS the LC paradigm.
>>> 
>>> LiveCode - and the legacy of HyperCard - is not Just Another IDE.
>>> People have usually failed miserably at explaining the magic.
>>> ("Easy English-like language?" Way too vague! Also missing the point.)
>>> Too few good analyses, too much parroting weak/transient slogans.
>>> 
>>> I intend to do a bit myself in that area soon, explaining what HC/LC is.
>>> (I had health/energy problems, thus some detractors, but they'll see!)
>>> The unique strengths of LC paradigm -yes, paradigm- deserve attention.
>>> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list.
>>> 
>>> That paradigm is why many of us are here: not just a handy-dandy tool.
>>> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
>>> This paradigm has extreme value; likely more than even LC Ltd realizes.
>>> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list!
>>> 
>>> Growing the audience again requires understanding/promoting that value.
>>> You can't just swap in any XYZ tool/language for LC. It ain't the same!
>>> Nor is success ONLY about winning the feature and platform arms race.
>>> That, but so much more. Paradigm is key. It has been neglected too long.
>>> 
>>> We must MAKE THE CASE for LC. Some have tried (thanks!) but not enough.
>>> I feel paradigm is equally important to explain to LC Ltd, as to users.
>>> 
>>>> HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way..
>>> 
>>> Not much argument there! Hopefully good things coming.
>>> 
>>>> And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart
>>>> as main language, it's free, it's the future
>>> 
>>> Thanks for sharing that. It looks pretty good.
>>> However, really the future? Maybe not!
>>> End of LC? "Hell no!" :D
>>> 
>>> (At least, if LC Ltd play their hand well.)
>>> 
>>> Again, there's #1. Paradigm - more on that soon, when I have time.
>>> But also several other factors in play:
>>> 
>>> 2. Current and future tech changes; you ain't seen nothing yet!
>>> 3. Mega corp competition; Apple & others will frequently reinvent.
>>> 4. Tech giant control; Silicon Valley oversteps, people will push back.
>>> 5. Corporations are good at innovation, also good at screwing up.
>>> 
>>> The control factor might bite Google and Apple soon:
>>> should I build there, when Powers That Be can pull the plug anytime?
>>> Increasingly, the big guys don't follow their own rules; it's arbitrary.
>>> 
>>> Tip: they just love control, whether visual fashion trends or ideology.
>>> What they encourage one year may become a "sin" the next. (Hi, Apple!)
>>> Very often it's simply dollars and cents; more control means more fees.
>>> 
>>> Meanwhile, you're at the mercy of their tech whims.
>>> Whatever they think should be the new trend, you must do.
>>> Modern corporate strategy is to reinvent for profit; relentless change.
>>> 
>>> Factor #5 is also big for me. Remember how Google would "fix" search?
>>> They "fixed" it alright! They killed it; try searching a non-trend.
>>> 
>>> So do I want to leap into Google's IDE?
>>> 
>>> Trust them to "fix" software development? To decide what I should do?
>>> To reinvent every 5 minutes if the corporate bottom line demands it?
>>> To see the present and the future more clearly than I do myself?
>>> Bow to their proverbial calf and kiss their toes since they're big?
>>> 
>>> So incredibly tempting...(not really)...no thanks! :)
>>> I gave them a chance to improve the Internet, and they maimed it.
>>> With that much money and men, the only explanation is being clueless!
>>> Thus there's no chance in Hell that I'd ever trust them to be my IDE.
>>> 
>>> Nor would that in any way replace the special paradigm we enjoy here.
>>> 
>>> I'm one of the few who are all-in for LC:
>>> 100% specialized in this IDE/language. And loving it!!!
>>> (Except the problems we've discussed here; but I've adjusted tactics.)
>>> 
>>> I believe LC will grow, if they play their cards right.
>>> They were dealt a fabulous hand! I'll help on the paradigm when I can.
>>> The colossal failure to explain LC's strengths has been a roadblock.
>>> 
>>> LiveCode (owing much to its heritage) is a fantastic product.
>>> It's not Yet Another language/tool that can be swapped out easily.
>>> That may require deeper understanding to realize. We can work on that.
>>> There are problems, but things are actually pretty good right now!
>>> (With GOOD tactics. And some woes due to Apple/industry $$$ strategy.)
>>> 
>>> Richmond:
>>> 
>>>> because I don't want to be jumped all over again [...]
>>>> I'm NOT stating what I think.
>>>> Love. kisses, and other things,
>>> 
>>> I can only speak for me. (I'm independent, not a thought herd groupie.)
>>> But I must say that I enjoy your posts MUCH more than most!
>>> 
>>> You really have a way of bringing the conversation to life. That helps.
>>> Never a dull moment or dull phrase, and you have some good insights too.
>>> 
>>> So keep at it - sometimes criticism means you're doing something right!
>>> If people jump on you, they may be hoping for a trampoline effect.
>>> But you know trampolines: fun, but one wrong twist = a bad bruise.
>>> So don't give up. I'm a fan; hope you keep making interesting posts!
>>> 
>>> Worth repeating:
>>> 
>>> LiveCode (and HyperCard's heritage) is a fantastic product.
>>> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
>>> Even those at the top have missed parts of paradigm and unique benefits.
>>> Things are pretty good right now, if you have adapted GOOD tactics!
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>> 
>>> Custom Software Development
>>> "Better Methods, Better Results"
>>> LiveCode Training and Consulting
>>> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Sun Feb 14 14:16:24 2021
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 20:16:24 +0100
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSRTMQ1LBy828wE58tFtth+L7vTv1F9gmyk8hA=cEnbsxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A380D595-62B6-4615-8E76-3701935DE82D@major-k.de>
 <182751a1-0a0e-e567-7ff5-fe9435bc0123@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSRTMQ1LBy828wE58tFtth+L7vTv1F9gmyk8hA=cEnbsxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A0E068C2-2E0C-4602-B3BD-1FBDB94A2A2D@me.com>

I am currently working as a teacher in an upper secondary school in Norway. I teach Computer Science and languages like English and Norwegian. Besides working as a teacher for more than 20 years, I have also experience from running various businesses. The combination of the two very different, but also in some parts, very common experiences, forms the basis of my thoughts on this topic.

From being in charge of running a business with about 20 employees and more than 100 recurring customers, I have learnt the importance of due diligence in all aspects of running the business. Whenever I was about to make a promise to a customer, I alone was responsible for making sure I could keep this promise. If the job at hand required new tools, I would never commit to the task before I actually had said tool at my disposal. Sure enough, I could find vendors who would promise to deliver on time, but to me such promises are nothing more than a good intention.

I look at the LC Roadmap in very much the same way. As a teacher I think I understand why the LC Roadmap is not a reliable tool to use for planning future solutions. As a teacher I am supposed to make plans in advance. I should make a plan for the whole of the school year, and a plan for each semester, the latter more detailed than the first. They are very much like the roadmap or the promises from vendors.

In reality these plans are not worth the bytes they occupy on the server. To be honest, even the plans I just made for next week and for each lesson next week, will fail one way or another. Such is the nature of plans vs. reality. And it is not about me or anyone else not caring about fulfilling the promises of the plans. It is simply because I am not able to control every variable that will affect the work we do.

As developers it should not be difficult for us to understand that a roadmap is just an expression of what LC Ltd  hopes to achieve within a given timeframe. It should not be considered to be a solid basis for making future promises to our customers. If we choose to do so, it would be just as stupid as if I chose to press on with my plans for this week, without any consideration to what happened in the classroom last week. And the responsibility would be with us, not the plans or the roadmaps.

On the question on whether or not the LC Roadmap should be updated, the answer is of course, yes. All plans that are outdated should be updated. But the new plans should be treated with the same amount of caution as the previous ones. Especially so if our livelihood depends on how we treat these roadmaps.

Best regards
Tore Nilsen

> 13. feb. 2021 kl. 13:37 skrev Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I was told last year that HTML5 deployment would see upgrades maybe by
> Jan2021 LC 9.7. However LC9.6.2 is still awaiting an RC3. So it?s just not
> going to happen. My client and I are severely disappointed to see that the
> conference set up for 2022 may be the FIRST LOOK we might see for the HTML5
> upgrade. Actually, disappointed doesn?t even close to cut it. I am
> seriously LIVID! Absolute proof that subscription model for this is
> pointless. It pisses me right off that promise after promise I keep falling
> for this crap. I?m paying something like $400 on top of the original $400
> per year for this kind of service. I CANNOT afford to keep doing this with
> vague empty unfulfilled promises (lies). I KEEP falling for it because the
> likes of others on this forum keep trying to convince me that they have our
> best interests at heart. But keep forgetting that this is BS too.
> 
> Roadmap = careering off a cliff top.  Clean up projected for New York 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 at 12:16, Richmond via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've said something to that effect earlier, at which point I was jumped
>> all over.
>> 
>> So, because I don't want to be jumped all over again, and because
>> saying the 'roadmap' needs to be updated will have no effect (didn't the
>> last 3 times),
>> I'm NOT stating what I think.
>> 
>> Love. kisses, and other things,
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
>> On 12.02.21 14:12, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> see subject -> Last Updated on July 14, 2020
>>> I think it is time to update the roadmap, what do you think?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> klaus at major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> -- 
> Pi Digital
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 14 16:52:39 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:52:39 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>

Bill Prothero wrote:

 > I would like to see:
 > Better help files that go deeper.

If I gave you a thousand pages of deep material but they were unrelated 
to your work, would you read them?

If I gave you ten pages that completely nailed the subject you've been 
grappling with, would you kick in a couple bucks to have them written?

Andre has been writing books on LC, and I talked with him a couple weeks 
ago about possible collaborative efforts, and there are other content 
options beyond LC's Lessons and eBooks...

But the most important question is:

What do you want to learn?

Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort 
out how they get addressed.

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 14 17:25:26 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:25:26 -0800
Subject: Polygon fill algo?
In-Reply-To: <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
References: <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <feb3fa29-6754-a3b3-88e5-10547a1de3aa@fourthworld.com>

I was hoping to use a single polygon draw a box, using the old trick of 
making discontiguous regions by adding a blank line between lists of points.

The results draws the lines as I expected, but the fill is 
unpredictable, at least for me.  Apparently the fill rules for a polygon 
cause it to not fill some regions, even when discontiguous.

I guess I'll have to use separate objects, but I was wondering if anyone 
has a description of the polyfill rule(s), or better, a way to coerce 
discontiguous polygon regions to always be filled.

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems



From monte at appisle.net  Sun Feb 14 17:30:43 2021
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 09:30:43 +1100
Subject: Polygon fill algo?
In-Reply-To: <feb3fa29-6754-a3b3-88e5-10547a1de3aa@fourthworld.com>
References: <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <feb3fa29-6754-a3b3-88e5-10547a1de3aa@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1D81491C-C1CA-423D-B88E-BF64F6861BA9@appisle.net>

Hi Richard

Have you checked out the `fillRule` property docs?

Cheers

Monte

> On 15 Feb 2021, at 9:25 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I was hoping to use a single polygon draw a box, using the old trick of making discontiguous regions by adding a blank line between lists of points.
> 
> The results draws the lines as I expected, but the fill is unpredictable, at least for me.  Apparently the fill rules for a polygon cause it to not fill some regions, even when discontiguous.
> 
> I guess I'll have to use separate objects, but I was wondering if anyone has a description of the polyfill rule(s), or better, a way to coerce discontiguous polygon regions to always be filled.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From irog at mac.com  Sun Feb 14 17:35:17 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:35:17 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>

Well, permit me to chime in here with full knowledge that I may be out of date with what?s already available. 

Arguably the most important feature of LC is its muliplatformness. Recognizing that it is a moving target, We/I need and want up to date easy to use lessons on how to build standalones for all the platforms. Since it is moving target these lessons should have revision cycles with clear up front indication of what OS and LC versions are being  used in each lesson. One of the problems I encounter is the bewildering platform jargon in existing lessons. I wish more simple language could be used to perhaps explain the jargon.

I am an Apple user (not a bigot) and it annoys the hell of me that I can no longer build distributable standalones for the Mac. It?s not reasonable to expect to change Apple, so we need to make it easier for us LC users. I briefly looked at the current lesson for this some time ago and at first glance it seemed unnecessarily complicated. I admit I might be me at fault here but here we are?

Just trying to help,

Roger

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> What do you want to learn?
> 
> Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort out how they get addressed.
> 



From irog at mac.com  Sun Feb 14 18:01:30 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 15:01:30 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
Message-ID: <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>

I just noticed that the "Codesigning and Notarizing your LC Standalone etc? lesson was updated on Feb 9, 2021. Perhaps I misrepresented the real situation in my previous post.

Roger


> On Feb 14, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, permit me to chime in here with full knowledge that I may be out of date with what?s already available. 
> 
> Arguably the most important feature of LC is its muliplatformness. Recognizing that it is a moving target, We/I need and want up to date easy to use lessons on how to build standalones for all the platforms. Since it is moving target these lessons should have revision cycles with clear up front indication of what OS and LC versions are being  used in each lesson. One of the problems I encounter is the bewildering platform jargon in existing lessons. I wish more simple language could be used to perhaps explain the jargon.
> 
> I am an Apple user (not a bigot) and it annoys the hell of me that I can no longer build distributable standalones for the Mac. It?s not reasonable to expect to change Apple, so we need to make it easier for us LC users. I briefly looked at the current lesson for this some time ago and at first glance it seemed unnecessarily complicated. I admit I might be me at fault here but here we are?
> 
> Just trying to help,
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> What do you want to learn?
>> 
>> Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort out how they get addressed.
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 14 18:12:35 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 15:12:35 -0800
Subject: Polygon fill algo?
In-Reply-To: <1D81491C-C1CA-423D-B88E-BF64F6861BA9@appisle.net>
References: <1D81491C-C1CA-423D-B88E-BF64F6861BA9@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <7e4aba01-4af9-f665-09be-8aed62458597@fourthworld.com>

Thanks, Monte. I checked it out, but unfortunately none of the options 
handle my specific use case in the way I want (which is arguably an 
unrealistic expectation, given that I need to have the fill region paint 
over some vertices).


I also discovered what may be a bug, or at least a curiosity: after 
playing with the nonzero and evenodd options, I tried to restore the 
default with:

   set the fillrule of the selobj to none

And got:

    Message execution error:
    Error description: Property: invalid enumeration value
    Hint:

Apparently "none" must be quoted.  Has it always been that way?  I've 
seen a couple other cases in recent years where keywords I could have 
sworn I'd used unquoted now throw errors until I quote them.

What rule can help us know when keywords must be quoted?


It also occurs to me: if there's no hint, adding "Hint:" looks like a 
bug, even though it may not be (doesn't seem to be in this case). Maybe 
I'll see if I can get some time to patch that...

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


Monte Goulding wrote:
 >
 > Hi Richard
 >
 > Have you checked out the `fillRule` property docs?
 >
 > Cheers
 >
 > Monte
 >
 >> On 15 Feb 2021, at 9:25 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 >>
 >> I was hoping to use a single polygon draw a box, using the old trick 
of making discontiguous regions by adding a blank line between lists of 
points.
 >>
 >> The results draws the lines as I expected, but the fill is 
unpredictable, at least for me.  Apparently the fill rules for a polygon 
cause it to not fill some regions, even when discontiguous.
 >>
 >> I guess I'll have to use separate objects, but I was wondering if 
anyone has a description of the polyfill rule(s), or better, a way to 
coerce discontiguous polygon regions to always be filled.
 >>
 >> --
 >> Richard Gaskin
 >> Fourth World Systems




From waprothero at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 20:46:52 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:46:52 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>

Jacqueline:
I didn?t know about http://lessons.livecode.com <http://lessons.livecode.com/>. Thank you for letting me know of that resource. It looks very useful and I like the user feedback part.

To be clear, it is my intent to stimulate thought toward opportunities, not to complain.

In a way, my ignorance of the lessons link illustrates my point. Where is the marketing? Why aren?t these contributions mentioned in the ?This Week In Llivecode? mailing? I am busy with many things other than programming. I read all of the emails from this list. Yet, I didn?t know about this compilation. These could be promoted/marketed, not only to potential new users, but to existing ones. 

I think if folks would check out the example site I mentioned, they would see more what I?m suggesting. http://macmost.com <http://macmost.com/>

Andre Garza?s post about his planning to write a book on some aspect of Livecode programming got me thinking about this. First, I think writing books is useful, but the way many busy folks access information on the internet is in more as smaller more targeted bites. I play jazz keyboard. A couple of years ago, I subscribed to a site that gave me access to jazz song sheet music included in video lessons lasting 30-60 minutes each. At the same time, from a couple other  authors, I got regular (about once a week) emails with short free improv techniques that took me 5-10 minutes to read, but with offers (at a cost) that include more in-depth lessons. I find that I use the short lessons a lot and the longer lessons, that I have already paid for with my one year subscription, very little if at all. Perhaps I?m unusual with a very short attention span, but I suspect I'm more typical. I?m suggesting that there are unused marketing and support strategies that could be beneficial to the Livecode enterprise. Check out the macmost site to see what I?m talking about.

Peace to you all and thanks for all the help you have given me in my projects,

Be well,
Bill Prothero



> On Feb 14, 2021, at 10:43 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> There is a whole lot more at http://lessons.livecode.com. While these aren't videos, the amount of info there is impressive and lessons are added all the time.
> 
> Personally I find written instructions much easier to follow and they don't require me to spend extra time watching a video and needing to run/pause/run/search for the section I want to review.
> 
> The lessons site should be prominently displayed in the Help menu.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On February 14, 2021 11:27:24 AM ELS Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Curry,
>> Your comments echo some of my experiences with Livecode. In olden times, when I realized that I could significantly improve my students? learning by enlisting computers, I began with HyperCard, went to Supercard, and when it failed at cross platform, I went to Macromedia Director.  I?ve programmed in FORTRAN, Pascal. When Adobe bought and killed Director, I switched my coding to LiveCode.
>> 

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 15 01:24:15 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 00:24:15 -0600
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <177a45c6698.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I had to check and the lessons are in fact in both the Help and Resources 
menus but they are called Tutorials. Both link to the lessons site. I never 
actually looked at those before, I only knew about the lessons from 
elsewhere and I always use a bookmark to get there.

Like you, I don't want to go through a long tutorial, I just want to know 
the bits that apply to a particular problem I need to solve. The lessons do 
that for me. It seems like there should be a different name for the menu 
item but I can't think what. "Tutorial" sounds time consuming.

But renaming the menu wouldn't solve the fact that I never actually 
explored it. My bad.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 14, 2021 7:47:43 PM William Prothero <waprothero at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jacqueline:
> I didn?t know about http://lessons.livecode.com 
> <http://lessons.livecode.com/>. Thank you for letting me know of that 
> resource. It looks very useful and I like the user feedback part.
>
> To be clear, it is my intent to stimulate thought toward opportunities, not 
> to complain.
>
> In a way, my ignorance of the lessons link illustrates my point. Where is 
> the marketing? Why aren?t these contributions mentioned in the ?This Week 
> In Llivecode? mailing? I am busy with many things other than programming. I 
> read all of the emails from this list. Yet, I didn?t know about this 
> compilation. These could be promoted/marketed, not only to potential new 
> users, but to existing ones.
>
> I think if folks would check out the example site I mentioned, they would 
> see more what I?m suggesting. http://macmost.com <http://macmost.com/>
>
> Andre Garza?s post about his planning to write a book on some aspect of 
> Livecode programming got me thinking about this. First, I think writing 
> books is useful, but the way many busy folks access information on the 
> internet is in more as smaller more targeted bites. I play jazz keyboard. A 
> couple of years ago, I subscribed to a site that gave me access to jazz 
> song sheet music included in video lessons lasting 30-60 minutes each. At 
> the same time, from a couple other  authors, I got regular (about once a 
> week) emails with short free improv techniques that took me 5-10 minutes to 
> read, but with offers (at a cost) that include more in-depth lessons. I 
> find that I use the short lessons a lot and the longer lessons, that I have 
> already paid for with my one year subscription, very little if at all. 
> Perhaps I?m unusual with a very short attention span, but I suspect I'm 
> more typical. I?m suggesting that there are unused marketing and support 
> strategies that could be beneficial to the Livecode enterprise. Check out 
> the macmost site to see what I?m talking about.
>
> Peace to you all and thanks for all the help you have given me in my projects,
>
> Be well,
> Bill Prothero
>
>
>
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 10:43 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> There is a whole lot more at http://lessons.livecode.com. While these 
>> aren't videos, the amount of info there is impressive and lessons are added 
>> all the time.
>>
>> Personally I find written instructions much easier to follow and they don't 
>> require me to spend extra time watching a video and needing to 
>> run/pause/run/search for the section I want to review.
>>
>> The lessons site should be prominently displayed in the Help menu.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On February 14, 2021 11:27:24 AM ELS Prothero via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Curry,
>>> Your comments echo some of my experiences with Livecode. In olden times, 
>>> when I realized that I could significantly improve my students? learning by 
>>> enlisting computers, I began with HyperCard, went to Supercard, and when it 
>>> failed at cross platform, I went to Macromedia Director.  I?ve programmed 
>>> in FORTRAN, Pascal. When Adobe bought and killed Director, I switched my 
>>> coding to LiveCode.
>>>
>
> William Prothero
> waprothero at gmail.com






From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 15 02:24:26 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 01:24:26 -0600
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <177a45c6698.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
 <177a45c6698.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <177a4938010.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

BTW, I like the idea of putting a reference link to the lessons in the 
"This Week in LiveCode" newsletter. It's an easy thing to do and I think it 
would help.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 15, 2021 12:26:30 AM "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I had to check and the lessons are in fact in both the Help and Resources
> menus but they are called Tutorials. Both link to the lessons site. I never
> actually looked at those before, I only knew about the lessons from
> elsewhere and I always use a bookmark to get there.
>
> Like you, I don't want to go through a long tutorial, I just want to know
> the bits that apply to a particular problem I need to solve. The lessons do
> that for me. It seems like there should be a different name for the menu
> item but I can't think what. "Tutorial" sounds time consuming.
>
> But renaming the menu wouldn't solve the fact that I never actually
> explored it. My bad.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On February 14, 2021 7:47:43 PM William Prothero <waprothero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jacqueline:
>> I didn?t know about http://lessons.livecode.com
>> <http://lessons.livecode.com/>. Thank you for letting me know of that
>> resource. It looks very useful and I like the user feedback part.
>>
>> To be clear, it is my intent to stimulate thought toward opportunities, not
>> to complain.
>>
>> In a way, my ignorance of the lessons link illustrates my point. Where is
>> the marketing? Why aren?t these contributions mentioned in the ?This Week
>> In Llivecode? mailing? I am busy with many things other than programming. I
>> read all of the emails from this list. Yet, I didn?t know about this
>> compilation. These could be promoted/marketed, not only to potential new
>> users, but to existing ones.
>>
>> I think if folks would check out the example site I mentioned, they would
>> see more what I?m suggesting. http://macmost.com <http://macmost.com/>
>>
>> Andre Garza?s post about his planning to write a book on some aspect of
>> Livecode programming got me thinking about this. First, I think writing
>> books is useful, but the way many busy folks access information on the
>> internet is in more as smaller more targeted bites. I play jazz keyboard. A
>> couple of years ago, I subscribed to a site that gave me access to jazz
>> song sheet music included in video lessons lasting 30-60 minutes each. At
>> the same time, from a couple other  authors, I got regular (about once a
>> week) emails with short free improv techniques that took me 5-10 minutes to
>> read, but with offers (at a cost) that include more in-depth lessons. I
>> find that I use the short lessons a lot and the longer lessons, that I have
>> already paid for with my one year subscription, very little if at all.
>> Perhaps I?m unusual with a very short attention span, but I suspect I'm
>> more typical. I?m suggesting that there are unused marketing and support
>> strategies that could be beneficial to the Livecode enterprise. Check out
>> the macmost site to see what I?m talking about.
>>
>> Peace to you all and thanks for all the help you have given me in my projects,
>>
>> Be well,
>> Bill Prothero
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 10:43 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> There is a whole lot more at http://lessons.livecode.com. While these
>>> aren't videos, the amount of info there is impressive and lessons are added
>>> all the time.
>>>
>>> Personally I find written instructions much easier to follow and they don't
>>> require me to spend extra time watching a video and needing to
>>> run/pause/run/search for the section I want to review.
>>>
>>> The lessons site should be prominently displayed in the Help menu.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> On February 14, 2021 11:27:24 AM ELS Prothero via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Curry,
>>>> Your comments echo some of my experiences with Livecode. In olden times,
>>>> when I realized that I could significantly improve my students? learning by
>>>> enlisting computers, I began with HyperCard, went to Supercard, and when it
>>>> failed at cross platform, I went to Macromedia Director.  I?ve programmed
>>>> in FORTRAN, Pascal. When Adobe bought and killed Director, I switched my
>>>> coding to LiveCode.
>>>>
>>
>> William Prothero
>> waprothero at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From jbv at souslelogo.com  Mon Feb 15 02:42:49 2021
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 02:42:49 -0500
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8a1809f64534288964b0588259d1bcf3@souslelogo.com>

Le 2021-02-14 20:46, William Prothero via use-livecode a ?crit?:
> Jacqueline:
> I didn?t know about http://lessons.livecode.com
> <http://lessons.livecode.com/>. Thank you for letting me know of that
> resource. It looks very useful and I like the user feedback part.
> 

I find this a bit surprising, because every time I have a doubt about
the syntax of a LC command or function, I go and google "livecode" + the
name of the command/function, and the related LC lesson appears within
the first links of the search results...
And I've been doing that for years...

jbv



From andre at andregarzia.com  Mon Feb 15 07:55:46 2021
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:55:46 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>

Hi Folks, 


> On 15 Feb 2021, at 01:46, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Andre Garza?s post about his planning to write a book on some aspect of Livecode programming got me thinking about this. First, I think writing books is useful, but the way many busy folks access information on the internet is in more as smaller more targeted bites. I play jazz keyboard. A couple of years ago, I subscribed to a site that gave me access to jazz song sheet music included in video lessons lasting 30-60 minutes each. At the same time, from a couple other  authors, I got regular (about once a week) emails with short free improv techniques that took me 5-10 minutes to read, but with offers (at a cost) that include more in-depth lessons. I find that I use the short lessons a lot and the longer lessons, that I have already paid for with my one year subscription, very little if at all. Perhaps I?m unusual with a very short attention span, but I suspect I'm more typical. I?m suggesting that there are unused marketing and support strategies that could be beneficial to the Livecode enterprise. Check out the macmost site to see what I?m talking about.

I had a great conversation with Richard about this couple weeks ago. We definitely feel that there is a need for more content in our community. In my own personal and subjective opinion, a real problem with have in LiveCode community is that the UX of the website is really bad. The site is quite pretty, but things that are useful for LC developers are hard to find. Let me illustrate that with an example:

Suppose you want to check some API related thing. You go to the website, click ?Docs? on the top menu and you?re dropped in a firehose of introductory information. That is all great, but where is the online dictionary? How you can go from there to finding out about a specific command or function? It is not there. The easiest way to get to the dictionary is to go back to the main home page, scroll all the way to the bottom and get the dictionary link in the footer.

The content is there, but the navigation around that content is bad. The new HTML-based dictionary in the IDE is dead slow and has other UX issues such as what happens when you press the ENTER/RETURN key in the search field (go ahead, try it).

LC is a small company regardless of how much we love them. They can?t provide solution to all our needs. It is not because they don?t want to, they have limited resources. We can?t treat LC as we treat Apple or Microsoft. I won?t dive into the sheer scale of the difference between those entities. We can?t compare it with some hugely popular FOSS programming language project such as Python. We tend to think that because it is FOSS that it is all done for free by a small group of people, it is very easy to fall into the fallacy of saying: ?look at what those people can achieve for free!?. It is not free and their institutional and enterprise backers provide funding and full-time employees that are beyond what LC can sum up.

Does that mean that LC has no place? Of course not, even with all those large entities competing in a similar space, LiveCode still a fantastic tool and in my own opinion, provides unrivalled productivity. 

What I?m saying is that we spend too much time focused into comparing LC with other stuff, or complaining about the lack of something. I understand that as paying customers we do have expectations and rights. What I want people here to understand is that there is no successful programming language community in which all resources are provided by a single entity. You need an ecosystem of multiple vendors of stuff to make a community. In the case of LiveCode, we need people creating and distributing (for a profit or not) libraries, extensions, tools, and content.

There is a void to be filled in our community to make it more vibrant and useful for ourselves. I know most people here are busy developing their products for their clients, but if we don?t at least surface what we?re building to one another, then everything becomes too opaque. The practices of being a LiveCode developer become a guarded secret, something that you only grasp if you stay here long enough and talk to the correct people.

It is with this in mind, that I decided to create content for our community. Books are an easy value proposition. Most of our community is beyond their thirties and have a fondness (and experience) for the written word and documentation. It is easy to sell books here, way easier than in other communities which are younger and prefer videos. That doesn?t mean that I can?t provide videos as well, damn I?ve graduated with a BA in filmmaking, I?m geared to start filming too. Books were the first step. I see myself more as a storyteller than a developer, that is why I want to focus on content for my own career moving forward. But that is only my own personal journey, other people here have a different path. I just wish that more people here decide to share their knowledge (and code) so that we can become a more vibrant community.



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Mon Feb 15 12:07:56 2021
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 09:07:56 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
References: <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <05010198-8F95-4983-A2C1-CAE24B917485@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Great to hear Andre?s input!

One point I hoped to make is that there is also a possibility of monetizing a help site that is created outside the mothership but coordinates and supports it. I think this kind of resource would be a significant investment and it is unrealistic to expect that the community will do this for free. Frankly, from others? comments, it seems that there is a lot of room for additional support and marketing. Think of a combination of short tutorials backed by downloadable samples of what was presented on video. These could be backed up with more in-depth lessons at a small charge. The purpose of a short video would be dual. One for showing how to do something and second for advertising how easy it is to do some things with Livecode. What if there was a link to LC subscriptions and the mothership would pay a royalty to the site owner/manager?

LC is a great deal, with a free version available for newbies. There are opportunities, I think.

Folks, please forgive me if I am overly promoting this idea. I?m an idea person, retired, and have no spare time to put a lot of energy into creating something like this. But many of you make your living from Livecode and these ideas could be mutually beneficial. I am invested in Livecode and would love to see it get more exposure and adoption. It?s a great product!

Best,
Bill Prothero

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 4:56 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Folks, 
> 
> 
>> On 15 Feb 2021, at 01:46, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Andre Garza?s post about his planning to write a book on some aspect of Livecode programming got me thinking about this. First, I think writing books is useful, but the way many busy folks access information on the internet is in more as smaller more targeted bites. I play jazz keyboard. A couple of years ago, I subscribed to a site that gave me access to jazz song sheet music included in video lessons lasting 30-60 minutes each. At the same time, from a couple other  authors, I got regular (about once a week) emails with short free improv techniques that took me 5-10 minutes to read, but with offers (at a cost) that include more in-depth lessons. I find that I use the short lessons a lot and the longer lessons, that I have already paid for with my one year subscription, very little if at all. Perhaps I?m unusual with a very short attention span, but I suspect I'm more typical. I?m suggesting that there are unused marketing and support strategies that could be beneficial to the Livecode enterprise. Check out the macmost site to see what I?m talking about.
> 
> I had a great conversation with Richard about this couple weeks ago. We definitely feel that there is a need for more content in our community. In my own personal and subjective opinion, a real problem with have in LiveCode community is that the UX of the website is really bad. The site is quite pretty, but things that are useful for LC developers are hard to find. Let me illustrate that with an example:
> 
> Suppose you want to check some API related thing. You go to the website, click ?Docs? on the top menu and you?re dropped in a firehose of introductory information. That is all great, but where is the online dictionary? How you can go from there to finding out about a specific command or function? It is not there. The easiest way to get to the dictionary is to go back to the main home page, scroll all the way to the bottom and get the dictionary link in the footer.
> 
> The content is there, but the navigation around that content is bad. The new HTML-based dictionary in the IDE is dead slow and has other UX issues such as what happens when you press the ENTER/RETURN key in the search field (go ahead, try it).
> 
> LC is a small company regardless of how much we love them. They can?t provide solution to all our needs. It is not because they don?t want to, they have limited resources. We can?t treat LC as we treat Apple or Microsoft. I won?t dive into the sheer scale of the difference between those entities. We can?t compare it with some hugely popular FOSS programming language project such as Python. We tend to think that because it is FOSS that it is all done for free by a small group of people, it is very easy to fall into the fallacy of saying: ?look at what those people can achieve for free!?. It is not free and their institutional and enterprise backers provide funding and full-time employees that are beyond what LC can sum up.
> 
> Does that mean that LC has no place? Of course not, even with all those large entities competing in a similar space, LiveCode still a fantastic tool and in my own opinion, provides unrivalled productivity. 
> 
> What I?m saying is that we spend too much time focused into comparing LC with other stuff, or complaining about the lack of something. I understand that as paying customers we do have expectations and rights. What I want people here to understand is that there is no successful programming language community in which all resources are provided by a single entity. You need an ecosystem of multiple vendors of stuff to make a community. In the case of LiveCode, we need people creating and distributing (for a profit or not) libraries, extensions, tools, and content.
> 
> There is a void to be filled in our community to make it more vibrant and useful for ourselves. I know most people here are busy developing their products for their clients, but if we don?t at least surface what we?re building to one another, then everything becomes too opaque. The practices of being a LiveCode developer become a guarded secret, something that you only grasp if you stay here long enough and talk to the correct people.
> 
> It is with this in mind, that I decided to create content for our community. Books are an easy value proposition. Most of our community is beyond their thirties and have a fondness (and experience) for the written word and documentation. It is easy to sell books here, way easier than in other communities which are younger and prefer videos. That doesn?t mean that I can?t provide videos as well, damn I?ve graduated with a BA in filmmaking, I?m geared to start filming too. Books were the first step. I see myself more as a storyteller than a developer, that is why I want to focus on content for my own career moving forward. But that is only my own personal journey, other people here have a different path. I just wish that more people here decide to share their knowledge (and code) so that we can become a more vibrant community.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon Feb 15 13:18:54 2021
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 20:18:54 +0200
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 255
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9v6yfvuaFpeshM4vv8uvH88spG97yP7ZmYZNj0tLnWxw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #255 here: https://bit.ly/3rW4JnU

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From bduck at mac.com  Mon Feb 15 13:39:43 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 13:39:43 -0500
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode for the xAPI Cohort
Message-ID: <90AF0C81-4521-4D3D-B77D-F878A8B07A2E@mac.com>

Here is an updated calendar for When2Meet: https://www.when2meet.com/?11053266-TIpH2 Please fill in your availability for this week, we will schedule a meeting or two based on responses as early as tomorrow.

Sent from my iPad,
Brian Duck


From irog at mac.com  Mon Feb 15 14:32:54 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 11:32:54 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
 <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>

I definitely owe an apology to Matthias Rebbe for not recognizing his outstanding lesson ?Codesigning and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore- ?, including the fact of the recent update of Feb 9th. The amount of work involved in creating this lesson is mind-boggling to me.

Thank you, Matthias!!

Roger

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I just noticed that the "Codesigning and Notarizing your LC Standalone etc? lesson was updated on Feb 9, 2021. Perhaps I misrepresented the real situation in my previous post.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, permit me to chime in here with full knowledge that I may be out of date with what?s already available. 
>> 
>> Arguably the most important feature of LC is its muliplatformness. Recognizing that it is a moving target, We/I need and want up to date easy to use lessons on how to build standalones for all the platforms. Since it is moving target these lessons should have revision cycles with clear up front indication of what OS and LC versions are being  used in each lesson. One of the problems I encounter is the bewildering platform jargon in existing lessons. I wish more simple language could be used to perhaps explain the jargon.
>> 
>> I am an Apple user (not a bigot) and it annoys the hell of me that I can no longer build distributable standalones for the Mac. It?s not reasonable to expect to change Apple, so we need to make it easier for us LC users. I briefly looked at the current lesson for this some time ago and at first glance it seemed unnecessarily complicated. I admit I might be me at fault here but here we are?
>> 
>> Just trying to help,
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What do you want to learn?
>>> 
>>> Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort out how they get addressed.
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From waprothero at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 15:21:38 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:21:38 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
 <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>
 <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>
Message-ID: <39670F21-04B8-4E81-B62D-D1FD14FCCD0B@gmail.com>

Codesigning is always a trudge for me because I don?t do it very often and Apple is regularly changing the parameters. So I also very much appreciate Matthias? lesson.
Thanks from me too!
Bill

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:32 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I definitely owe an apology to Matthias Rebbe for not recognizing his outstanding lesson ?Codesigning and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore- ?, including the fact of the recent update of Feb 9th. The amount of work involved in creating this lesson is mind-boggling to me.
> 
> Thank you, Matthias!!
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I just noticed that the "Codesigning and Notarizing your LC Standalone etc? lesson was updated on Feb 9, 2021. Perhaps I misrepresented the real situation in my previous post.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, permit me to chime in here with full knowledge that I may be out of date with what?s already available. 
>>> 
>>> Arguably the most important feature of LC is its muliplatformness. Recognizing that it is a moving target, We/I need and want up to date easy to use lessons on how to build standalones for all the platforms. Since it is moving target these lessons should have revision cycles with clear up front indication of what OS and LC versions are being  used in each lesson. One of the problems I encounter is the bewildering platform jargon in existing lessons. I wish more simple language could be used to perhaps explain the jargon.
>>> 
>>> I am an Apple user (not a bigot) and it annoys the hell of me that I can no longer build distributable standalones for the Mac. It?s not reasonable to expect to change Apple, so we need to make it easier for us LC users. I briefly looked at the current lesson for this some time ago and at first glance it seemed unnecessarily complicated. I admit I might be me at fault here but here we are?
>>> 
>>> Just trying to help,
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> What do you want to learn?
>>>> 
>>>> Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort out how they get addressed.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com






From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Mon Feb 15 15:38:59 2021
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 20:38:59 +0000
Subject: Polygon fill algo?
Message-ID: <8FBFD916-9310-4C6A-9008-7340302F4B4A@uni-wh.de>

>Richard wrote
>a way to coerce discontiguous polygon regions to always be filled?

I assume you have set the opaque of the polygon graphic to true?
Without "opaque" I do not get any filling, with "opaque" true it always fills

Kind regards
Bernd


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 15 16:31:49 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:31:49 -0600
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
 <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>
 <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2e5a80f4-1b9b-7023-351e-7a6ef48be31a@hyperactivesw.com>

I agree, the lesson is fantastic. I was just there minutes ago helping a client set up his 
stack. And now we have entitlements added; that's new and much appreciated. Matthias put a lot 
of work into that lesson. We use it for every new Mac release.

On 2/15/21 1:32 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
> I definitely owe an apology to Matthias Rebbe for not recognizing his outstanding lesson ?Codesigning and notarizing your LC standalone for distribution outside the Mac Appstore- ?, including the fact of the recent update of Feb 9th. The amount of work involved in creating this lesson is mind-boggling to me.
> 
> Thank you, Matthias!!
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just noticed that the "Codesigning and Notarizing your LC Standalone etc? lesson was updated on Feb 9, 2021. Perhaps I misrepresented the real situation in my previous post.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, permit me to chime in here with full knowledge that I may be out of date with what?s already available.
>>>
>>> Arguably the most important feature of LC is its muliplatformness. Recognizing that it is a moving target, We/I need and want up to date easy to use lessons on how to build standalones for all the platforms. Since it is moving target these lessons should have revision cycles with clear up front indication of what OS and LC versions are being  used in each lesson. One of the problems I encounter is the bewildering platform jargon in existing lessons. I wish more simple language could be used to perhaps explain the jargon.
>>>
>>> I am an Apple user (not a bigot) and it annoys the hell of me that I can no longer build distributable standalones for the Mac. It?s not reasonable to expect to change Apple, so we need to make it easier for us LC users. I briefly looked at the current lesson for this some time ago and at first glance it seemed unnecessarily complicated. I admit I might be me at fault here but here we are?
>>>
>>> Just trying to help,
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What do you want to learn?
>>>>
>>>> Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort out how they get addressed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 15 16:35:20 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:35:20 -0600
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <39670F21-04B8-4E81-B62D-D1FD14FCCD0B@gmail.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
 <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>
 <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>
 <39670F21-04B8-4E81-B62D-D1FD14FCCD0B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55b67b4b-82ed-1198-cfdf-a7ef0107ef0d@hyperactivesw.com>

Do you use his notarization stack? Once you get it set up it's a huge time-saver. No more 
Terminal commands.

On 2/15/21 2:21 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> Codesigning is always a trudge for me because I don?t do it very often and Apple is regularly changing the parameters. So I also very much appreciate Matthias? lesson.
> Thanks from me too!
> Bill


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From jiml at netrin.com  Mon Feb 15 17:16:32 2021
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:16:32 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1613408401.325074.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1613408401.325074.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EAAFFB0B-249B-48AE-A385-FD922D38A6B6@netrin.com>

> Andre wrote:
> 
> LC is a small company regardless of how much we love them. They can't provide solution to all our needs. It is not because they don't want to, they have limited resources. We can't treat LC as we treat Apple or Microsoft. 

So true. I absolutely marvel at how much the LiveCode Team have accomplished and are able to accomplish at their size and budget. I'm grateful for that.

It helps to remember a map is not a journey. Journeys very often diverge from the planned map route. See the sad story of TechTV's James Kim.

Jim Lambert

From waprothero at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 17:25:48 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:25:48 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <55b67b4b-82ed-1198-cfdf-a7ef0107ef0d@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
 <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>
 <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>
 <39670F21-04B8-4E81-B62D-D1FD14FCCD0B@gmail.com>
 <55b67b4b-82ed-1198-cfdf-a7ef0107ef0d@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2E6CA9E6-CDC8-4C6D-BAF6-1A56545F0045@gmail.com>

Jacqueline:
Thanks. Yes, I have it. Haven?t tried it yet. But I?ve downloaded it.
Best,
Bill


> On Feb 15, 2021, at 1:35 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Do you use his notarization stack? Once you get it set up it's a huge time-saver. No more Terminal commands.
> 
> On 2/15/21 2:21 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>> Codesigning is always a trudge for me because I don?t do it very often and Apple is regularly changing the parameters. So I also very much appreciate Matthias? lesson.
>> Thanks from me too!
>> Bill
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com






From paul at researchware.com  Mon Feb 15 17:53:21 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 17:53:21 -0500
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
Message-ID: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>

This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode as 
I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary 
rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. In 
considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by 
rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd' 
measured from?

center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is what 
most people would think of.

adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think 
this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the 
visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another is 
that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between the 
nearest adjacent edges?

Something else? What does 2 rects? being 'within' d pixels of one 
another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?

Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles 
being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am 
unfamiliar with it.




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 15 18:08:32 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 17:08:32 -0600
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <2E6CA9E6-CDC8-4C6D-BAF6-1A56545F0045@gmail.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
 <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>
 <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>
 <39670F21-04B8-4E81-B62D-D1FD14FCCD0B@gmail.com>
 <55b67b4b-82ed-1198-cfdf-a7ef0107ef0d@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2E6CA9E6-CDC8-4C6D-BAF6-1A56545F0045@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f15b9f63-93f1-95a9-9f97-7c162f59cf91@hyperactivesw.com>

Initial setup is a bit of a journey because Apple likes to make developers jump through hoops 
to prove they're worthy. But every subsequent notarization is a one-click wonder.

On 2/15/21 4:25 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> Jacqueline:
> Thanks. Yes, I have it. Haven?t tried it yet. But I?ve downloaded it.
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 1:35 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Do you use his notarization stack? Once you get it set up it's a huge time-saver. No more Terminal commands.
>>
>> On 2/15/21 2:21 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Codesigning is always a trudge for me because I don?t do it very often and Apple is regularly changing the parameters. So I also very much appreciate Matthias? lesson.
>>> Thanks from me too!
>>> Bill
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> William Prothero
> waprothero at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 15 18:13:53 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 17:13:53 -0600
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <9002637a-67b3-d10a-b074-ad158b39bc32@hyperactivesw.com>

I think the natural definition would be distance between the respective boundaries; i.e., edge 
to edge distance, but also the distance between corners. That is, if any of r1's corners is d 
distance from any one of r2's closest corners.

On 2/15/21 4:53 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode as I am writing a LiveCode 
> expression to determine if 2 arbitrary rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of 
> one another. In considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by rectangles 
> being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd' measured from?
> 
> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is what most people would think of.
> 
> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think this is what more people 
> intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the visual concept of 2 rects being within some 
> distance of one another is that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between the 
> nearest adjacent edges?
> 
> Something else? What does 2 rects? being 'within' d pixels of one another mean to you, if not 
> one of the two above options?
> 
> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles being within distance d of 
> one another is, but, if there is, I am unfamiliar with it.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Mon Feb 15 18:21:46 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi))
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 23:21:46 +0000
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSRLaQFG2cncjgg7nvcuBftSWFZQ4rp9XfFc9gFgHrHYyw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
No point reinventing the wheel..

Lots of other way. Distance between two near or far edges. distance between
corners, distance to centers, or area median, area of space between,
overal usage area minus the area used by the two rectangles. Math is fun.
Keeps us in business.

Google (distance between two rectangles):

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4978323/how-to-calculate-distance-between-two-rectangles-context-a-game-in-lua

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2724537/finding-the-clear-spacing-distance-between-two-rectangles

https://www.wyzant.com/resources/answers/583373/finding-the-distance-between-two-rectangles

https://www.programmersought.com/article/44554760896/

etc

On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 22:53, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode as
> I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary
> rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. In
> considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by
> rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd'
> measured from?
>
> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is what
> most people would think of.
>
> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think
> this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the
> visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another is
> that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between the
> nearest adjacent edges?
>
> Something else? What does 2 rects  being 'within' d pixels of one
> another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?
>
> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles
> being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am
> unfamiliar with it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From waprothero at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 18:24:43 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:24:43 -0800
Subject: How do I interpret this Build Error dialog?
In-Reply-To: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>

Folks:

I have a pretty complex app that I?ve been adding onto for awhile and now I?m getting a seemingly informative error dialog when I try to build it. It works fine in the IDE. The app consists of numerous stacks and libraries launched with a splash stack. I get an error dialog but have no idea how to interpret its info. It?s not clear to me how to interpret the error dialog and what made it fail. It seems to fail at the login stack, which is called when the user clicks the Start button. 

Was the failure point at the end of the error message? I haven?t actually tried to build this app for a couple of years and its complexity has grown. All of the stacks in the project have been entered into the ?Stacks? section of the standalone properties dialog. I?ve obviously done something wrong and it would help a lot if I could interpret the error message (I hope). 

The following two links will display the first part of the error message and the second (scrolled) part.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0>

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyq3huunp7wnl3/buildFail-2.png?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyq3huunp7wnl3/buildFail-2.png?dl=0>

Any wisdom on how to proceed would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com





From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Mon Feb 15 19:14:53 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi))
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 00:14:53 +0000
Subject: How do I interpret this Build Error dialog?
In-Reply-To: <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSQbrmBMB++NdvckiwPim5pBXWrPDe5mHn0fqsLw14dYgg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
The error panels show the events in reverse order, so last occurrence first.

The first number in each line is the error code and the second is the line
number in the script that failed.
Here's a list of the error codes:
https://livecode.fandom.com/wiki/Error_codes

Going back from line 5 of your error:
353 - THe name of the object it enters (stack "loginLib")
241 - Handler: error in statement , line 236 of stack "LoginLib"
465 - put: error in expression , line 236
118 - Operators &: &: error in left operand , line 236
219 - Function: error in function handler , line 236 (function
getDesktopFolderPath)

So, it's likely a compound problem with lots of things that likely led up
to the fault. There are more 219 and 241 errors and it starts with a 490
(repeat: error in statement). Work your way through the error codes and see
what you find.

All the best
Sean

On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 23:24, William Prothero via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Folks:
>
> I have a pretty complex app that I?ve been adding onto for awhile and now
> I?m getting a seemingly informative error dialog when I try to build it. It
> works fine in the IDE. The app consists of numerous stacks and libraries
> launched with a splash stack. I get an error dialog but have no idea how to
> interpret its info. It?s not clear to me how to interpret the error dialog
> and what made it fail. It seems to fail at the login stack, which is called
> when the user clicks the Start button.
>
> Was the failure point at the end of the error message? I haven?t actually
> tried to build this app for a couple of years and its complexity has grown.
> All of the stacks in the project have been entered into the ?Stacks?
> section of the standalone properties dialog. I?ve obviously done something
> wrong and it would help a lot if I could interpret the error message (I
> hope).
>
> The following two links will display the first part of the error message
> and the second (scrolled) part.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0 <
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0>
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyq3huunp7wnl3/buildFail-2.png?dl=0 <
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyq3huunp7wnl3/buildFail-2.png?dl=0>
>
> Any wisdom on how to proceed would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> waprothero at gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Feb 15 19:53:23 2021
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 00:53:23 +0000
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSRLaQFG2cncjgg7nvcuBftSWFZQ4rp9XfFc9gFgHrHYyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <CABRqQSRLaQFG2cncjgg7nvcuBftSWFZQ4rp9XfFc9gFgHrHYyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0bd35e14-e38d-e9b2-bd1b-6818ff846b18@tweedly.net>


On 15/02/2021 23:21, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi,
> No point reinventing the wheel..

But most of those links actually did not have this particular wheel, or 
anything like it.

The exception was the last one (programmerssought.com) which had an 
ugly, inefficient and lengthy (45 lines in Python) solution. [OK, that 
45 includs blank and comments :-) !!

For me, a more precise problem specification is:

Given two rectangles (in regular Livecode format), the distance between 
them is :

 ?- if they touch or overlap, distance is zero.

 ?- otherwise, it's the smallest distance from any point in R1 to any 
point in R2.

Which leads to a simple solution

> function rdist R1, R2
> ?? local DX, DY
> ?? put max( item 1 of R1 - item 3 of R2, item 1 of R2 - item 3 of R1, 
> 0) into DX
> ?? put max( item 2 of R1 - item 4 of R2, item 2 of R2 - item 4 of R1, 
> 0) into DY
> ?? return sqrt( DX*DX + DY * DY)
> end rdist
>
Alex.


> Lots of other way. Distance between two near or far edges. distance between
> corners, distance to centers, or area median, area of space between,
> overal usage area minus the area used by the two rectangles. Math is fun.
> Keeps us in business.
>
> Google (distance between two rectangles):
>
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4978323/how-to-calculate-distance-between-two-rectangles-context-a-game-in-lua
>
> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2724537/finding-the-clear-spacing-distance-between-two-rectangles
>
> https://www.wyzant.com/resources/answers/583373/finding-the-distance-between-two-rectangles
>
> https://www.programmersought.com/article/44554760896/
>
> etc
>
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 22:53, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode as
>> I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary
>> rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. In
>> considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by
>> rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd'
>> measured from?
>>
>> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is what
>> most people would think of.
>>
>> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think
>> this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the
>> visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another is
>> that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between the
>> nearest adjacent edges?
>>
>> Something else? What does 2 rects  being 'within' d pixels of one
>> another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?
>>
>> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles
>> being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am
>> unfamiliar with it.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 15 20:29:45 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 19:29:45 -0600
Subject: How do I interpret this Build Error dialog?
In-Reply-To: <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <177a8752328.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

In Sample Stacks, search for LiveCode Error Lookup. I keep it my Plugins 
folder. You can paste the whole list of errors into it and it will tell you 
what they mean.

However, usually you only need the first line which is where a break would 
happen in the IDE. The other lines are, in reverse order, the messages that 
led up to the topmost error.

The first item in each line is the error code, the second is the script 
line number, and the third is the character offset in the line.

An advantage of this stack is that it reads the error descriptions from the 
currently running copy of LiveCode so it is always up to date. New errors 
are added as the language expands.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 15, 2021 5:26:44 PM William Prothero via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Folks:
>
> I have a pretty complex app that I?ve been adding onto for awhile and now 
> I?m getting a seemingly informative error dialog when I try to build it. It 
> works fine in the IDE. The app consists of numerous stacks and libraries 
> launched with a splash stack. I get an error dialog but have no idea how to 
> interpret its info. It?s not clear to me how to interpret the error dialog 
> and what made it fail. It seems to fail at the login stack, which is called 
> when the user clicks the Start button.
>
> Was the failure point at the end of the error message? I haven?t actually 
> tried to build this app for a couple of years and its complexity has grown. 
> All of the stacks in the project have been entered into the ?Stacks? 
> section of the standalone properties dialog. I?ve obviously done something 
> wrong and it would help a lot if I could interpret the error message (I hope).
>
> The following two links will display the first part of the error message 
> and the second (scrolled) part.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0 
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0>
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyq3huunp7wnl3/buildFail-2.png?dl=0 
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyq3huunp7wnl3/buildFail-2.png?dl=0>
>
> Any wisdom on how to proceed would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> waprothero at gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon Feb 15 20:54:38 2021
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 17:54:38 -0800
Subject: How do I interpret this Build Error dialog?
In-Reply-To: <177a8752328.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
 <177a8752328.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <dc72abd5-2db7-022e-1017-f66410c10e12@sonic.net>

On 2/15/21 5:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> In Sample Stacks, search for LiveCode Error Lookup. I keep it my Plugins 
> folder. You can paste the whole list of errors into it and it will tell 
> you what they mean.
> 
> However, usually you only need the first line which is where a break 
> would happen in the IDE. The other lines are, in reverse order, the 
> messages that led up to the topmost error.

Actually, in this case the second line has more info.
Line #1 (error #219: error in function handler) is a more generic error 
message that I find singularly unuseful.
Line #2 (error #118: Operators &: error in left operand) gives a more 
specific reason.

At any rate, the problem seems to be on line 236 in the function 
getDesktopFolderPath, and is probably around char 8, although that isn't 
always accurate.

The stack frames leading up to the error were triggered by the build 
process invoking preOpencard:

preOpenCard
--> initFirstLoginScreen
----> checkForLastLogInFile
------> getDesktopFolderPath

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Mon Feb 15 21:11:24 2021
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 18:11:24 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <f15b9f63-93f1-95a9-9f97-7c162f59cf91@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <17ade0cf-49be-f18c-01eb-9185edff79d1@fourthworld.com>
 <838D545D-96A0-440B-A0CB-361A16B77B65@mac.com>
 <95E961D8-230D-4CC7-8966-47E0FC754A73@mac.com>
 <B77C5757-DD3D-468E-90BC-01B46D815D63@mac.com>
 <39670F21-04B8-4E81-B62D-D1FD14FCCD0B@gmail.com>
 <55b67b4b-82ed-1198-cfdf-a7ef0107ef0d@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2E6CA9E6-CDC8-4C6D-BAF6-1A56545F0045@gmail.com>
 <f15b9f63-93f1-95a9-9f97-7c162f59cf91@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <E5B2CC07-400B-4393-BC11-4ED9AA4AD377@elementarysoftware.com>

One-click-wonder is right? especially if you use DropDMG to create custom disk images!
--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-360-734-4701
------------------------------------------------------

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 3:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Initial setup is a bit of a journey because Apple likes to make developers jump through hoops to prove they're worthy. But every subsequent notarization is a one-click wonder.
> 
> On 2/15/21 4:25 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>> Jacqueline:
>> Thanks. Yes, I have it. Haven?t tried it yet. But I?ve downloaded it.
>> Best,
>> Bill
>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 1:35 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Do you use his notarization stack? Once you get it set up it's a huge time-saver. No more Terminal commands.
>>> 
>>> On 2/15/21 2:21 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Codesigning is always a trudge for me because I don?t do it very often and Apple is regularly changing the parameters. So I also very much appreciate Matthias? lesson.
>>>> Thanks from me too!
>>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> William Prothero
>> waprothero at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode











From waprothero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:21:33 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 21:21:33 -0800
Subject: How do I interpret this Build Error dialog?
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSQbrmBMB++NdvckiwPim5pBXWrPDe5mHn0fqsLw14dYgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSQbrmBMB++NdvckiwPim5pBXWrPDe5mHn0fqsLw14dYgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C95E7C70-9852-41FE-B53E-C9DA03E8E568@gmail.com>

Sean:
Thank you, thank you!.
Bill

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 4:14 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> The error panels show the events in reverse order, so last occurrence first.
> 
> The first number in each line is the error code and the second is the line
> number in the script that failed.
> Here's a list of the error codes:
> https://livecode.fandom.com/wiki/Error_codes
> 
> Going back from line 5 of your error:
> 353 - THe name of the object it enters (stack "loginLib")
> 241 - Handler: error in statement , line 236 of stack "LoginLib"
> 465 - put: error in expression , line 236
> 118 - Operators &: &: error in left operand , line 236
> 219 - Function: error in function handler , line 236 (function
> getDesktopFolderPath)
> 
> So, it's likely a compound problem with lots of things that likely led up
> to the fault. There are more 219 and 241 errors and it starts with a 490
> (repeat: error in statement). Work your way through the error codes and see
> what you find.
> 
> All the best
> Sean
> 
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 23:24, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Folks:
>> 
>> I have a pretty complex app that I?ve been adding onto for awhile and now
>> I?m getting a seemingly informative error dialog when I try to build it. It
>> works fine in the IDE. The app consists of numerous stacks and libraries
>> launched with a splash stack. I get an error dialog but have no idea how to
>> interpret its info. It?s not clear to me how to interpret the error dialog
>> and what made it fail. It seems to fail at the login stack, which is called
>> when the user clicks the Start button.
>> 
>> Was the failure point at the end of the error message? I haven?t actually
>> tried to build this app for a couple of years and its complexity has grown.
>> All of the stacks in the project have been entered into the ?Stacks?
>> section of the standalone properties dialog. I?ve obviously done something
>> wrong and it would help a lot if I could interpret the error message (I
>> hope).
>> 
>> The following two links will display the first part of the error message
>> and the second (scrolled) part.
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0 <
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0>
>> 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyq3huunp7wnl3/buildFail-2.png?dl=0 <
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyq3huunp7wnl3/buildFail-2.png?dl=0>
>> 
>> Any wisdom on how to proceed would be much appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> waprothero at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com






From waprothero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:24:06 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 21:24:06 -0800
Subject: How do I interpret this Build Error dialog?
In-Reply-To: <dc72abd5-2db7-022e-1017-f66410c10e12@sonic.net>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
 <177a8752328.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <dc72abd5-2db7-022e-1017-f66410c10e12@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <0CCB642E-1254-4F8F-B593-D738C76B6595@gmail.com>

Mark and Jacqueline:
Thanks. That?s very helpful!
Bill

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2/15/21 5:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> In Sample Stacks, search for LiveCode Error Lookup. I keep it my Plugins folder. You can paste the whole list of errors into it and it will tell you what they mean.
>> However, usually you only need the first line which is where a break would happen in the IDE. The other lines are, in reverse order, the messages that led up to the topmost error.
> 
> Actually, in this case the second line has more info.
> Line #1 (error #219: error in function handler) is a more generic error message that I find singularly unuseful.
> Line #2 (error #118: Operators &: error in left operand) gives a more specific reason.
> 
> At any rate, the problem seems to be on line 236 in the function getDesktopFolderPath, and is probably around char 8, although that isn't always accurate.
> 
> The stack frames leading up to the error were triggered by the build process invoking preOpencard:
> 
> preOpenCard
> --> initFirstLoginScreen
> ----> checkForLastLogInFile
> ------> getDesktopFolderPath
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com






From waprothero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:40:28 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 21:40:28 -0800
Subject: Another question about multiple stack projects
In-Reply-To: <C95E7C70-9852-41FE-B53E-C9DA03E8E568@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSQbrmBMB++NdvckiwPim5pBXWrPDe5mHn0fqsLw14dYgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C95E7C70-9852-41FE-B53E-C9DA03E8E568@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E7444DE5-190C-40B8-84C9-D7324A98E597@gmail.com>

Folks:
I have a question about multiple stack projects. My project starts with a splash stack. In the standalone preferences of this stack, I list all stacks the project uses, including script only stacks I use as libraries. Should I do a ?Start using? on all of these stacks at this point? But I could have just done a ?start using? for the required stacks for each of the other component stacks when they were first accessed, and got the same result?

I guess my question is: how does the build process make use of the list of stacks in the splash stack? Are they all built into the project in some way that doesn?t happen otherwise? I still seem to be required to ?Start using? each of the library stacks anyway.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com






From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb 16 00:55:53 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 21:55:53 -0800
Subject: Polygon fill algo?
In-Reply-To: <8FBFD916-9310-4C6A-9008-7340302F4B4A@uni-wh.de>
References: <8FBFD916-9310-4C6A-9008-7340302F4B4A@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <ce2fa2fe-5b89-48d9-476e-272b79ef58e8@fourthworld.com>

Bernd Niggemann wrote:

 > > Richard wrote
 > > a way to coerce discontiguous polygon regions to always be filled?
 >
 > I assume you have set the opaque of the polygon graphic to true?

Yep.

My expectation was almost beyond anything reasonable, but it would seem 
useful if there was some way to make it happen:  imagine if each segment 
within a list of discontiguous points was rendered as though it's a 
separate object, back to front.

It's not going to kill me to use separate graphics to hide the portions 
of the vertices I need covered, but it sure would have been nifty if I'd 
found a way to have a single poly object render as though it were many.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb 16 01:18:50 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 22:18:50 -0800
Subject: How do I interpret this Build Error dialog?
In-Reply-To: <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
References: <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54fc6d40-c7c7-9769-0f9f-9c4bce222ac2@fourthworld.com>

William Prothero wrote:
...
 > https://www.dropbox.com/s/brlvvtrbb8xeh6j/buildFail-1.png?dl=0

What we see there is two bugs: the error being reported, and the dumping 
of raw error data in that IDE dialog with no effort made to turn a 
format designed for machine parsing into anything useful for human reading.

I'm hoping I'm wrong, and that nothing in the IDE is designed to be so 
unhelpful.

Please tell me that dialog is not from the IDE.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Feb 16 01:36:40 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 00:36:40 -0600
Subject: How do I interpret this Build Error dialog?
In-Reply-To: <dc72abd5-2db7-022e-1017-f66410c10e12@sonic.net>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
 <177a8752328.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <dc72abd5-2db7-022e-1017-f66410c10e12@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <177a98e20c0.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I should have said "the first line with an error code."

I also should have looked at the images before I answered...

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 15, 2021 7:56:47 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2/15/21 5:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> In Sample Stacks, search for LiveCode Error Lookup. I keep it my Plugins
>> folder. You can paste the whole list of errors into it and it will tell
>> you what they mean.
>>
>> However, usually you only need the first line which is where a break
>> would happen in the IDE. The other lines are, in reverse order, the
>> messages that led up to the topmost error.
>
> Actually, in this case the second line has more info.
> Line #1 (error #219: error in function handler) is a more generic error
> message that I find singularly unuseful.
> Line #2 (error #118: Operators &: error in left operand) gives a more
> specific reason.
>
> At any rate, the problem seems to be on line 236 in the function
> getDesktopFolderPath, and is probably around char 8, although that isn't
> always accurate.
>
> The stack frames leading up to the error were triggered by the build
> process invoking preOpencard:
>
> preOpenCard
> --> initFirstLoginScreen
> ----> checkForLastLogInFile
> ------> getDesktopFolderPath
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From mark at livecode.com  Tue Feb 16 02:23:44 2021
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:23:44 +0000
Subject: Polygon fill algo?
In-Reply-To: <ce2fa2fe-5b89-48d9-476e-272b79ef58e8@fourthworld.com>
References: <8FBFD916-9310-4C6A-9008-7340302F4B4A@uni-wh.de>
 <ce2fa2fe-5b89-48d9-476e-272b79ef58e8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9c411fd393d1046d23dea95f40c38340@livecode.com>

On 2021-02-16 05:55, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> My expectation was almost beyond anything reasonable, but it would
> seem useful if there was some way to make it happen:  imagine if each
> segment within a list of discontiguous points was rendered as though
> it's a separate object, back to front.
> 
> It's not going to kill me to use separate graphics to hide the
> portions of the vertices I need covered, but it sure would have been
> nifty if I'd found a way to have a single poly object render as though
> it were many.

So the even-odd fill rule will not give you what you want - overlapping 
regions alternate.

The non-zero fill rule can give you what you want - but you need to make 
sure that all your sub-polygons go 'in the same direction'. (NB: Fixed 
width font ASCII art follows):

These two overlapping rects both go clock-wise so everything is filled.

   |--->---|
   |.......|
   |...|--->---|
   ^...|...|...|
   |...|...|...|
   |-- |---|...v
       |.......|
       |-------|

The left rect goes anti-clockwise and the right rect goes clockwise:

   |---<---|
   |.......|
   |...|--->---|
   v...|   |...|
   |...|   |...|
   |-- |---|...v
       |.......|
       |-------|

Notionally:
    - the non-zero winding rule works by starting on the left of each 
scanline and scanning to the right
    - there is a winding counter which starts at 0.
    - at any pixel, if the winding counter is non-zero the pixel is 
filled.
    - if an edge is crossed which goes 'down', the winding counter is 
decreased
    - if an edge is crossed which goes 'up', the winding counter is 
increased

Hope this helps!

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From henk at ludisstudio.com  Tue Feb 16 02:45:45 2021
From: henk at ludisstudio.com (Henk van der Velden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 08:45:45 +0100
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.51.1613441532.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.51.1613441532.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <58441C0E-F70C-4FAF-8BCD-FAE3A25F966D@ludisstudio.com>

Alex,
No one would challenge your definition I think, but your solution only takes the corner points into account, right? So this wouldn?t give correct results in case the rectangles have different sizes or are positioned obliquely. 

Henk


> On 16 Feb 2021, at 03:12, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> For me, a more precise problem specification is:
> 
> Given two rectangles (in regular Livecode format), the distance between 
> them is :
> 
> ?- if they touch or overlap, distance is zero.
> 
> ?- otherwise, it's the smallest distance from any point in R1 to any 
> point in R2.
> 
> Which leads to a simple solution
> 
>> function rdist R1, R2
>> ?? local DX, DY
>> ?? put max( item 1 of R1 - item 3 of R2, item 1 of R2 - item 3 of R1, 
>> 0) into DX
>> ?? put max( item 2 of R1 - item 4 of R2, item 2 of R2 - item 4 of R1, 
>> 0) into DY
>> ?? return sqrt( DX*DX + DY * DY)
>> end rdist
>> 
> Alex.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 02:51:55 2021
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:51:55 +0200
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <fc4db95c-c1e7-c70f-0b86-8a362438e7f6@gmail.com>

I would go for the distance between edges, although I can see the 
Mathematical wobbly bits you
are going to have to jump through.

Richmond.

On 16.02.21 0:53, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode 
> as I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary 
> rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. In 
> considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by 
> rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd' 
> measured from?
>
> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is what 
> most people would think of.
>
> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think 
> this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the 
> visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another is 
> that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between the 
> nearest adjacent edges?
>
> Something else? What does 2 rects? being 'within' d pixels of one 
> another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?
>
> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles 
> being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am 
> unfamiliar with it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 02:57:53 2021
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:57:53 +0200
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <9002637a-67b3-d10a-b074-ad158b39bc32@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <9002637a-67b3-d10a-b074-ad158b39bc32@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8cf25023-0635-746c-5e23-f9d4303adbee@gmail.com>

Sorry: I have moved over here:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35407

as I believe a picture is worth a thousand words:

Richmond.

On 16.02.21 1:13, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I think the natural definition would be distance between the 
> respective boundaries; i.e., edge to edge distance, but also the 
> distance between corners. That is, if any of r1's corners is d 
> distance from any one of r2's closest corners.
>
> On 2/15/21 4:53 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode 
>> as I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary 
>> rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. 
>> In considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by 
>> rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd' 
>> measured from?
>>
>> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is 
>> what most people would think of.
>>
>> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think 
>> this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the 
>> visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another 
>> is that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between 
>> the nearest adjacent edges?
>>
>> Something else? What does 2 rects? being 'within' d pixels of one 
>> another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?
>>
>> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles 
>> being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am 
>> unfamiliar with it.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb 16 03:20:35 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 00:20:35 -0800
Subject: Polygon fill algo?
In-Reply-To: <9c411fd393d1046d23dea95f40c38340@livecode.com>
References: <9c411fd393d1046d23dea95f40c38340@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <86d8eaa0-bf76-f10b-8888-87d20024a3dd@fourthworld.com>

Super helpful, Mark. Thank you.

I can better understand how the existing modes work, but I need 
something a little different.

Imagine if we had a mode where each successive set of points is rendered 
so it completely paints over anything rendered before it, vertices and 
all - e.g.:


    |--->---|
    |.......|
    |...|--->---|
    ^...|.......|
    |...|.......|
    |-- |.......v
        |.......|
        |-------|


   set the fillmode to layered --?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


Mark Waddingham wrote:

> On 2021-02-16 05:55, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> My expectation was almost beyond anything reasonable, but it would
>> seem useful if there was some way to make it happen:  imagine if each
>> segment within a list of discontiguous points was rendered as though
>> it's a separate object, back to front.
>> 
>> It's not going to kill me to use separate graphics to hide the
>> portions of the vertices I need covered, but it sure would have been
>> nifty if I'd found a way to have a single poly object render as though
>> it were many.
> 
> So the even-odd fill rule will not give you what you want - overlapping 
> regions alternate.
> 
> The non-zero fill rule can give you what you want - but you need to make 
> sure that all your sub-polygons go 'in the same direction'. (NB: Fixed 
> width font ASCII art follows):
> 
> These two overlapping rects both go clock-wise so everything is filled.
> 
>    |--->---|
>    |.......|
>    |...|--->---|
>    ^...|...|...|
>    |...|...|...|
>    |-- |---|...v
>        |.......|
>        |-------|
> 
> The left rect goes anti-clockwise and the right rect goes clockwise:
> 
>    |---<---|
>    |.......|
>    |...|--->---|
>    v...|   |...|
>    |...|   |...|
>    |-- |---|...v
>        |.......|
>        |-------|
> 
> Notionally:
>     - the non-zero winding rule works by starting on the left of each 
> scanline and scanning to the right
>     - there is a winding counter which starts at 0.
>     - at any pixel, if the winding counter is non-zero the pixel is 
> filled.
>     - if an edge is crossed which goes 'down', the winding counter is 
> decreased
>     - if an edge is crossed which goes 'up', the winding counter is 
> increased
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb 16 03:39:17 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 00:39:17 -0800
Subject: Using MySQL on (headless) Linux
In-Reply-To: <2495164F-6794-4225-8FFB-156004D84BF9@gmail.com>
References: <e2d17babaaa59d05a7604cc9c6cd440c@livecode.com>
 <495320c4-159b-1a20-2e38-816326983081@fourthworld.com>
 <2495164F-6794-4225-8FFB-156004D84BF9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8bbca422-b953-eb2a-52b5-fa7012d3bf5f@fourthworld.com>

Thank you, Mark, but the downside to my longish emails is that I'll need 
further guidance: which part/phrases would be of greatest interest? 
Happy to see if I can put together something to help with it.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


On 2/4/21 3:33 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
> Richard, you?ve covered a lot of territory in this message most of which 
> I don?t understand since I?ve never had a need to delve into this aspect 
> if LC technology, but I?m really fascinated by the potential and would 
> love to learn more. Could this possibly be a topic for a half day (or 
> full day) workshop at the upcoming LIVECODE NYC 2022? If so, I think it 
> would be one of those topics that makes it worth the price of admission.
> 
> Cheers
> Mark
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Mark Waddingham wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-02-03 20:07, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> LC Server had already been ruled out (for whatever reason) in an 
>>>>> earlier part of the thread...
>>>> That's too bad. LC Server is LiveCode build designed specifically for
>>>> command line use.
>>> Interesting - I don't remember that being what I specifically 
>>> designed it for :P
>>> LiveCode Server was *specifically designed* to be used just like PHP 
>>> - allowing you to interpolate code with HTML output for the purposes 
>>> of constructing webpages on the fly, sitting behind a web-server... 
>>> That's why it has unique syntax designed precisely for a CGI 
>>> environment, and operating in that PHP-like manner.
>>> Making it run in command-line mode as well was an obvious thing to 
>>> do, and also made up for the fact (at the time) that bare standalone 
>>> engines would not launch a stack on the command-line (as that was a 
>>> rather gaping licensing hole which was closed between v3 and v4
>>> IIRC). [ It also made it easier to test the general features of it! ]
>>> Since the advent of the community edition, however, and perhaps more 
>>> importantly script-only-stacks - standalone engines running with -ui 
>>> can be just as convenient...
>>
>>
>> Indeed it can. ?The -ui option for running standalones was something 
>> many of us enjoyed back in the MetaCard days; AFAIK it was first 
>> implemented with v1.0 back in '92; it least it was there when I first 
>> started with MC back in '96.
>>
>> In addition to being an option for standalones, one could even run the 
>> bare engine with -ui as well.
>>
>> And being a command line tool that uses stdin/stdout, running the 
>> engine or a standalone with -ui also worked well as a CGI under Apache 
>> or Lightly (though in a flavor more like Perl, Python, or Ruby than PHP).
>>
>> Your fine addition in more recent years with a special Server build to 
>> allow PHP-like co-mingling of code and content was well done and much 
>> appreciated for those who enjoy that workflow on web servers.
>>
>> And back in '14 David Williams reminded us that the standard shebang 
>> option for running a script text file is still available, though with 
>> a slight syntactic difference from how we used to do that with MC 
>> (entry point used to be a startup message, now just bare script 
>> statements outside of a handler):
>> https://livecode.com/a-livecode-shell/
>>
>>
>> With all this flexibility in one lean install, for me the pros of LC 
>> Server for headless work are clear:
>>
>> - We get the benefits of a standalone without having to make a
>> ?standalone (indeed the engine can be kept up to date with a
>> ?scrape-n-wget from the Downloads page, without needing to run
>> ?it through the Standalone Builder on a separate GUI system).
>>
>> - We have the same options for running it as a standalone, without
>> ?needing to remember to add -ui (minor, but every little simplicity
>> ?is nice).
>>
>> - BONUS: We get the bonus option of running it aa a CGI without
>> ?needing to write our own libraries for that (reading and parsing
>> ?POST, writing to stdOut, handling every little detail about
>> ?headers, sessions, and more). ?And when we do, we can enjoy
>> ?PHP-style implicit merge, mixing content and code much more
>> ?conveniently than with the merge function.
>>
>> That bonus may be irrelevant for some use cases, but probably not 
>> many. After all, a headless machine is usually not our main dev 
>> machine; it's probably being deployed to provide services for client 
>> machines. When those services are being delivered over a network we'll 
>> need a protocol, and in most cases HTTP will be a great choice, 
>> certainly the most common one. And though we can write our own HTTP 
>> daemon in LC, letting Apache do that generic work gives us better 
>> throughput, robustness, and security, with lower maintenance costs.
>>
>> Letting Apache do what it does best lets us do what we do best: focus 
>> on the functionality unique to our application service.
>>
>>
>> All that said, perhaps my appreciation for your work with LC Server is 
>> indeed misplaced, and maybe it shouldn't be encouraged as the go-to 
>> choice for headless LiveCode development. :)
>>
>> But as one who resisted using it for many years after it was released, 
>> continuing to use standalones with -ui, I must admit that the 
>> efficiencies in both execution time and my development and maintenance 
>> time eventually made me uniquely enamored of LC Server as my default 
>> choice for any headless system.
>>
>> So if this makes me an LC Server fanboy, guilty as charged, your honor.
>>
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems




From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 06:16:14 2021
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 11:16:14 +0000
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <8cf25023-0635-746c-5e23-f9d4303adbee@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <9002637a-67b3-d10a-b074-ad158b39bc32@hyperactivesw.com>
 <8cf25023-0635-746c-5e23-f9d4303adbee@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42F81649-7B94-41D4-85A6-55D9422F2F6E@gmail.com>

Being a bear of little brain, I would try placing each rect into a group centred on a larger rect, where the margin is d/2,  then test using intersect.

Now, where did I put that hunny?

Best wishes

David Glasgow


From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Feb 16 08:26:47 2021
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 13:26:47 +0000
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <58441C0E-F70C-4FAF-8BCD-FAE3A25F966D@ludisstudio.com>
References: <mailman.51.1613441532.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <58441C0E-F70C-4FAF-8BCD-FAE3A25F966D@ludisstudio.com>
Message-ID: <6f2297fb-2a15-7965-c39d-0b21d7c86bb8@tweedly.net>

Hi Henk,

No, it's maybe not obvious but it does take all cases into account.

If the smallest distance is between corners of each rectangle - only 
then does the 'sqrt' have real meaning. In all other cases, one or other 
of the DX and DY comes out as 0.

------
 ?|??? |
| R1 |? ------
 ?|??? |? |??? |
 ?|??? |? | R2 |
 ?------? |??? |
 ? ?????? -----


So if there is an overlap in one dimension, (Y above) then DY is 
calculated as 0 - and the result is the distance in X (i.e. sqrt(DX*DX+0) ).

Alex.


On 16/02/2021 07:45, Henk van der Velden via use-livecode wrote:
> Alex,
> No one would challenge your definition I think, but your solution only takes the corner points into account, right? So this wouldn?t give correct results in case the rectangles have different sizes or are positioned obliquely.
>
> Henk
>
>
>> On 16 Feb 2021, at 03:12, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>
>> For me, a more precise problem specification is:
>>
>> Given two rectangles (in regular Livecode format), the distance between
>> them is :
>>
>> ?- if they touch or overlap, distance is zero.
>>
>> ?- otherwise, it's the smallest distance from any point in R1 to any
>> point in R2.
>>
>> Which leads to a simple solution
>>
>>> function rdist R1, R2
>>> ?? local DX, DY
>>> ?? put max( item 1 of R1 - item 3 of R2, item 1 of R2 - item 3 of R1,
>>> 0) into DX
>>> ?? put max( item 2 of R1 - item 4 of R2, item 2 of R2 - item 4 of R1,
>>> 0) into DY
>>> ?? return sqrt( DX*DX + DY * DY)
>>> end rdist
>>>
>> Alex.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Feb 16 10:26:49 2021
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 15:26:49 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
 <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <9d52787c-04c7-c56b-21d9-dfe8cac75b64@tweedly.net>


On 15/02/2021 12:55, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
> It is with this in mind, that I decided to create content for our 
> community. Books are an easy value proposition. Most of our community 
> is beyond their thirties and have a fondness (and experience) for the 
> written word and documentation. It is easy to sell books here, way 
> easier than in other communities which are younger and prefer videos. 
> That doesn?t mean that I can?t provide videos as well, damn I?ve 
> graduated with a BA in filmmaking, I?m geared to start filming too. 
> Books were the first step. I see myself more as a storyteller than a 
> developer, that is why I want to focus on content for my own career 
> moving forward. But that is only my own personal journey, other people 
> here have a different path. I just wish that more people here decide 
> to share their knowledge (and code) so that we can become a more 
> vibrant community. 

Then I have a concrete suggestion for what would, I think, be a very 
useful e-book + stack.

A sample 'skeleton' app - i.e. complete but not fleshed-out. Initially 
it would be for a desktop app (the first sequel will cover mobile). It 
would implement "good practices" for many of the common features, with 
enough code being there to do something - but the focus should be on the 
architecture rather than on doing anything useful.

It should include (most of):

 ?- splash stack, with checks for updated versions, background 
downloading & installing them, etc.

 ?- proper locations for libraries, prefs files, other config data, 
other data, etc. as well as loading the libraries.

 ?- simple preferences handling (i.e. library which will store, retrieve 
and allow basic user interaction to view/update preferences - given some 
description of the preferences)

 ?- a menu, ready to extend or remove, with abstraction of the functionality

 ?- maybe a status bar

 ?- some groups that handle resizing well

 ?- multiple cards should be involved

 ?- probably simple SQL (i.e. sqlite + your DBLib)

And of course the most difficult part will be writing the e-book that 
describes the app, what it does, and maybe why those particular methods 
were chosen over some of the alternatives.

Then the sequel would cover mobile, so adding features like a Header 
Bar, segmented control, using library to overlay controls with native 
controls as needed, ... as well as describing the hoops one needs to 
jump through to actually do mobile developments.

Further sequels could then cover additional features - again for 
architecture and example, not just to make it a more complicated app. 
For example: toolbar, pane splitter, data grid, ...

Alex.

P.S. I'd be happy to collaborate on doing the development part - but I 
suspect you'd be quicker without me :-)

P.P.S title suggestion "The Soul of a New App".





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Feb 16 11:39:50 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:39:50 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
 <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <227F6613-2502-48A1-8EE5-DAE877DF34F2@iotecdigital.com>

BIG +

If not for Livecode, I would not be developing at all. I am just grateful that there IS a Livecode. I am not a professional developer though, so I understand that some have issues with certain things.

Bob S


On Feb 15, 2021, at 4:55 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

LC is a small company regardless of how much we love them. They can?t provide solution to all our needs. It is not because they don?t want to, they have limited resources. We can?t treat LC as we treat Apple or Microsoft.


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Feb 16 11:43:38 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:43:38 +0100
Subject: iOS App just shows Splash Screen the quits
Message-ID: <4C6C7439-8308-454C-9645-C73B874F71D7@m-r-d.de>

Hi,

i am working on an app which ran without problems on iOS14.2 on the iPad of a customer.. Now the customer updated his iPad to iOS 14.4 and now the app crashes after showing up the splash screen.
Even a simple app only shows the splash screen at start and the quits.

I tried to build the app for iOS13 and 12. Both did not work.

Does anyone have an idea what might be wrong?

I am working with macOS 10.14.6 and xCode 11.3. 




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Feb 16 11:45:07 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:45:07 +0000
Subject: Another question about multiple stack projects
In-Reply-To: <E7444DE5-190C-40B8-84C9-D7324A98E597@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSQbrmBMB++NdvckiwPim5pBXWrPDe5mHn0fqsLw14dYgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C95E7C70-9852-41FE-B53E-C9DA03E8E568@gmail.com>
 <E7444DE5-190C-40B8-84C9-D7324A98E597@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78B69F1A-2BE3-40D7-8C49-B004AA66DB1A@iotecdigital.com>

Listing them in the stack files gives LC the ability to find them when you refer to them by name only (as opposed to the full path.) In the case of script only Libraries, you can start using them at any time before you make a call to them. For instance, I have a database setup card that configures the database connection when the card is opened. I start using my database library on openCard. 

Bob S


> On Feb 15, 2021, at 9:40 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> I have a question about multiple stack projects. My project starts with a splash stack. In the standalone preferences of this stack, I list all stacks the project uses, including script only stacks I use as libraries. Should I do a ?Start using? on all of these stacks at this point? But I could have just done a ?start using? for the required stacks for each of the other component stacks when they were first accessed, and got the same result?
> 
> I guess my question is: how does the build process make use of the list of stacks in the splash stack? Are they all built into the project in some way that doesn?t happen otherwise? I still seem to be required to ?Start using? each of the library stacks anyway.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> waprothero at gmail.com


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Feb 16 11:47:08 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:47:08 +0000
Subject: team-xapi-in-LiveCode Update
In-Reply-To: <28CCCFCE-103D-4D6F-8523-69B392C7A71A@mac.com>
References: <mailman.1.1613235601.314874.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <28CCCFCE-103D-4D6F-8523-69B392C7A71A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C0CF8ED0-EC19-4A8F-A12D-B6C850D4C023@iotecdigital.com>

I have a custom development menu I remove when creating standalone. In it I have a Center Stack which simply sets the loc of the top stack to the screenLoc. 

Bob S


> On Feb 13, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Brian K. Duck via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Erik,
> 
> The YouTube url has been validated and is included because the direct link to our GitHub team link requires:
> 1) a logged in user
> 2) the user must be a member of the ?xAPI Cohort Spring 2021? group
> 
> GitHub gives a 404 error if either of these conditions are not met, there is no feedback provided other than this error number.
> 
> Anyone wishing to see the code is welcome to join the xAPI Learning Cohort and request access to the Cohort GitHub area.
> 
> The YouTube url does not have this limitation.
> 
> As I am cross posting to: use-LiveCode, gutHub discussions, slack channels, and direct email to our team; I?m working to keep the urls posted valid, but I am learning as I go.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone,
> Brian Duck
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2021, at 12:00 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> 
>> The URL is not correct.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Erik
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Feb 16 11:50:17 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:50:17 +0000
Subject: Livecode IDE question
In-Reply-To: <9C0C60BB-CD7C-4924-979F-34060297B585@mac.com>
References: <6F596AE3-03C5-48BF-AAE8-C42918611BC7@telus.net>
 <9C0C60BB-CD7C-4924-979F-34060297B585@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E1B7CD97-BA7A-46F3-9B89-573AE3E7A913@iotecdigital.com>

Belay my last post on this thread. I am always plagued with this problem where emails on a simple thread come into my inbox as multiple threads, so I don?t always see the original post right away. 

Bob S


> On Feb 12, 2021, at 1:21 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m having a similar problem on my new MBP, and haven?t figured out  the cause yet. Just type this in the message box for an temporary fix:
> 
> 	set the top of stack revMenubar to 25 - - - or so
> 
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2021, at 10:58 AM, David Squance via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I?m a hobbyist, and infrequent dabbler, and I hope my question isn?t inappropriate to post here. I find the forum too cumbersome and daunting. With recent upgrades, the toolbar at the top of the screen in the IDE is fixed about an inch below the top. Is there anyway to move it up? I use a MacBook Air and the screen is small enough.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> Dave
>> 
>> LC9.6.2 RC2
>> OS 11.2.1


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Feb 16 12:08:45 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:08:45 -0500
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <42F81649-7B94-41D4-85A6-55D9422F2F6E@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <9002637a-67b3-d10a-b074-ad158b39bc32@hyperactivesw.com>
 <8cf25023-0635-746c-5e23-f9d4303adbee@gmail.com>
 <42F81649-7B94-41D4-85A6-55D9422F2F6E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fe7afdd-2e54-fbd9-8876-e25474810794@researchware.com>

On 2/16/2021 6:16 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Being a bear of little brain, I would try placing each rect into a group centred on a larger rect, where the margin is d/2,  then test using intersect.
>
> Now, where did I put that hunny?
>
>

Like the pooh reference!

Although I am not sure I follow exactly what you are suggests - AND - I 
need to do this via math rather than visible (or invisible) objects in LC.

for rects r1,r2, I have l1,t1,r1,b2 and l2,t2,r2,b2 for their 
coordinates. The rect min(l1,l2),min(t1,t2),max(r1,r2),max(b1,b2) is a 
rectangle that exactly bounds both rects - this would be the rect of the 
group (if you created them as objects and grouped them (less 
margins/borders).

I don't follow the part about 'centered on a larger rect where the 
margin is d/2?




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Feb 16 12:15:48 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:15:48 +0100
Subject: iOS App just shows Splash Screen the quits
In-Reply-To: <4C6C7439-8308-454C-9645-C73B874F71D7@m-r-d.de>
References: <4C6C7439-8308-454C-9645-C73B874F71D7@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <3E65D684-B21D-4AA9-A2B0-4AE4260F51F7@m-r-d.de>

Forgot to mention. I tried with LC 9.6.2 RC 1 & 2 and LC 9.6.1
-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 16.02.2021 um 17:43 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> i am working on an app which ran without problems on iOS14.2 on the iPad of a customer.. Now the customer updated his iPad to iOS 14.4 and now the app crashes after showing up the splash screen.
> Even a simple app only shows the splash screen at start and the quits.
> 
> I tried to build the app for iOS13 and 12. Both did not work.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea what might be wrong?
> 
> I am working with macOS 10.14.6 and xCode 11.3. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark.rauterkus at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:40:07 2021
From: mark.rauterkus at gmail.com (Mark Rauterkus)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:40:07 -0500
Subject: Nods: "The Soul of a New App".
In-Reply-To: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV_Z3BmtNGcXveQGpRBiHeoA6uJZwRKYvLb4w_=2hre7b95vA@mail.gmail.com>

Love this:

P.P.S title suggestion "The Soul of a New App".

Mark R


-- 

--
Ta.


Mark Rauterkus       Mark at Rauterkus.com
Webmaster, International Swim Coaches Association, SwimISCA.org
Executive Director of SKWIM USA, a 501(c)(3), SKWIM.us
The Pittsburgh Project - swim coach and head lifeguard
Coach at The Ellis School for Swimming, T&F and Triathlon
Pittsburgh Combined Water Polo Team & Renegades (Masters)

CLOH.org <https://cloh.org/> & Rauterkus.com & 4Rs.org

412 298 3432 = cell


From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 13:02:24 2021
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:02:24 +0000
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <3fe7afdd-2e54-fbd9-8876-e25474810794@researchware.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <9002637a-67b3-d10a-b074-ad158b39bc32@hyperactivesw.com>
 <8cf25023-0635-746c-5e23-f9d4303adbee@gmail.com>
 <42F81649-7B94-41D4-85A6-55D9422F2F6E@gmail.com>
 <3fe7afdd-2e54-fbd9-8876-e25474810794@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <73C19135-B989-4FA7-ADCE-2DC70C876155@gmail.com>

Well, my suggestion a non starter if you need to do hard sums, and you eschew invisibles. 

However, my thinking was this... I understood that the task was to detect when two rectangles r1 and r2 were within distance d of each other.   Presumably ether a flat bit or a pointy bit, coming in at any angle.  if each rectangle is centred and grouped with a rect that is bigger by d/2, any intersection of any two bigger rects means that the smaller corresponding r1 and r2 rects are at or within the desired distance d (half d measured by r1?margin over r1, and half by r2?margin over r2). The size of the groups is ignored, and as long as all r & r? stay centred it should work, unless the rects move super quickly.

Oh.  It just occurred to me is that the bigger rects would have to have rounded corners.  Hmmm.  


OK, I?ll just sit back and see how it should be done.

Cheers

David G



> On 16 Feb 2021, at 5:08 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2/16/2021 6:16 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
>> Being a bear of little brain, I would try placing each rect into a group centred on a larger rect, where the margin is d/2,  then test using intersect.
>> 
>> Now, where did I put that hunny?
>> 
>> 
> 
> Like the pooh reference!
> 
> Although I am not sure I follow exactly what you are suggests - AND - I need to do this via math rather than visible (or invisible) objects in LC.
> 
> for rects r1,r2, I have l1,t1,r1,b2 and l2,t2,r2,b2 for their coordinates. The rect min(l1,l2),min(t1,t2),max(r1,r2),max(b1,b2) is a rectangle that exactly bounds both rects - this would be the rect of the group (if you created them as objects and grouped them (less margins/borders).
> 
> I don't follow the part about 'centered on a larger rect where the margin is d/2?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From devin_asay at byu.edu  Tue Feb 16 13:06:05 2021
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:06:05 +0000
Subject: SSL Error - question from Stack Overflow
Message-ID: <EF666270-660A-4291-A73D-F3A59B4C01B3@byu.edu>

Hi all,

I came across this question on stack overflow. I like to try to give good LiveCode answers there when I can, just to do a little to boost the reputation of the LC community there. But I don?t have a clue on this one.

<quote>
A Livecode script:
get URL "https://www.uspto.gov/patent/laws-and-regulations/patent-term-extension/patent-terms-extended-under-35-usc-156"
Winds up with the following in "the result":

 tsneterr: (56) SSLRead() return error -9806


I tried setting libURLSetSSLVerification to both true and false, but got the same error each time. Any ideas why this is happening, and is there a solution?
</quote>

I verified that this error is returned consistently in the result. Anybody have any ideas? Charles, are you lurking perhaps?

Devin


Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From paul at researchware.com  Tue Feb 16 13:15:23 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 13:15:23 -0500
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <73C19135-B989-4FA7-ADCE-2DC70C876155@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <9002637a-67b3-d10a-b074-ad158b39bc32@hyperactivesw.com>
 <8cf25023-0635-746c-5e23-f9d4303adbee@gmail.com>
 <42F81649-7B94-41D4-85A6-55D9422F2F6E@gmail.com>
 <3fe7afdd-2e54-fbd9-8876-e25474810794@researchware.com>
 <73C19135-B989-4FA7-ADCE-2DC70C876155@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3f11d91-5185-a0b1-c8cd-fd39b0263ee4@researchware.com>

Thank you. I think I understand the proposed approach. I appreciate the 
clarification.

On 2/16/2021 1:02 PM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Well, my suggestion a non starter if you need to do hard sums, and you eschew invisibles.
>
> However, my thinking was this... I understood that the task was to detect when two rectangles r1 and r2 were within distance d of each other.   Presumably ether a flat bit or a pointy bit, coming in at any angle.  if each rectangle is centred and grouped with a rect that is bigger by d/2, any intersection of any two bigger rects means that the smaller corresponding r1 and r2 rects are at or within the desired distance d (half d measured by r1?margin over r1, and half by r2?margin over r2). The size of the groups is ignored, and as long as all r & r? stay centred it should work, unless the rects move super quickly.
>
> Oh.  It just occurred to me is that the bigger rects would have to have rounded corners.  Hmmm.
>
>
> OK, I?ll just sit back and see how it should be done.
>
> Cheers
>
> David G
>
>
>
>> On 16 Feb 2021, at 5:08 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 2/16/2021 6:16 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Being a bear of little brain, I would try placing each rect into a group centred on a larger rect, where the margin is d/2,  then test using intersect.
>>>
>>> Now, where did I put that hunny?
>>>
>>>
>> Like the pooh reference!
>>
>> Although I am not sure I follow exactly what you are suggests - AND - I need to do this via math rather than visible (or invisible) objects in LC.
>>
>> for rects r1,r2, I have l1,t1,r1,b2 and l2,t2,r2,b2 for their coordinates. The rect min(l1,l2),min(t1,t2),max(r1,r2),max(b1,b2) is a rectangle that exactly bounds both rects - this would be the rect of the group (if you created them as objects and grouped them (less margins/borders).
>>
>> I don't follow the part about 'centered on a larger rect where the margin is d/2?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Tue Feb 16 13:20:11 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 13:20:11 -0500
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSRLaQFG2cncjgg7nvcuBftSWFZQ4rp9XfFc9gFgHrHYyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <CABRqQSRLaQFG2cncjgg7nvcuBftSWFZQ4rp9XfFc9gFgHrHYyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9e8df78b-805d-bac1-b149-30caee304f01@researchware.com>

Sean,

Thank you. I had Googles a few solutions (but missed this one: 
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2724537/finding-the-clear-spacing-distance-between-two-rectangles 
- which I really like so thanks!) but I say that some were solving for 
center distances and some for edges and some for other things, which is 
what in part led to my original questions of:

What is the most common way people think of the distance between 2 
rects? I suppost my question presumes there is a "most' common way or a 
'more' common way that some others of the many you mentioned.

 From my Googling and this poll, I am seeing a slight favorite of people 
most commonly thinking of the distance between rects as being between 
the nearest edges or vertices.

On 2/15/2021 6:21 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi,
> No point reinventing the wheel..
>
> Lots of other way. Distance between two near or far edges. distance between
> corners, distance to centers, or area median, area of space between,
> overal usage area minus the area used by the two rectangles. Math is fun.
> Keeps us in business.
>
> Google (distance between two rectangles):
>
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4978323/how-to-calculate-distance-between-two-rectangles-context-a-game-in-lua
>
> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2724537/finding-the-clear-spacing-distance-between-two-rectangles
>
> https://www.wyzant.com/resources/answers/583373/finding-the-distance-between-two-rectangles
>
> https://www.programmersought.com/article/44554760896/
>
> etc
>
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 22:53, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode as
>> I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary
>> rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. In
>> considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by
>> rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd'
>> measured from?
>>
>> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is what
>> most people would think of.
>>
>> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think
>> this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the
>> visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another is
>> that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between the
>> nearest adjacent edges?
>>
>> Something else? What does 2 rects  being 'within' d pixels of one
>> another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?
>>
>> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles
>> being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am
>> unfamiliar with it.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Tue Feb 16 13:24:33 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 13:24:33 -0500
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <0bd35e14-e38d-e9b2-bd1b-6818ff846b18@tweedly.net>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <CABRqQSRLaQFG2cncjgg7nvcuBftSWFZQ4rp9XfFc9gFgHrHYyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0bd35e14-e38d-e9b2-bd1b-6818ff846b18@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <973fd7e2-9ab4-6467-2339-9ca3da19a6f6@researchware.com>

Alex,

Thank you. As I just posted, I think I am seeing that *most* people 
think of the distance between 2 rects as the distance between nearest 
edges or vertices which is the same as the smallest distance between any 
two points.


On 2/15/2021 7:53 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>
> On 15/02/2021 23:21, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi,
>> No point reinventing the wheel..
>
> But most of those links actually did not have this particular wheel, 
> or anything like it.
>
> The exception was the last one (programmerssought.com) which had an 
> ugly, inefficient and lengthy (45 lines in Python) solution. [OK, that 
> 45 includs blank and comments :-) !!
>
> For me, a more precise problem specification is:
>
> Given two rectangles (in regular Livecode format), the distance 
> between them is :
>
> ?- if they touch or overlap, distance is zero.
>
> ?- otherwise, it's the smallest distance from any point in R1 to any 
> point in R2.
>
> Which leads to a simple solution
>
>> function rdist R1, R2
>> ?? local DX, DY
>> ?? put max( item 1 of R1 - item 3 of R2, item 1 of R2 - item 3 of R1, 
>> 0) into DX
>> ?? put max( item 2 of R1 - item 4 of R2, item 2 of R2 - item 4 of R1, 
>> 0) into DY
>> ?? return sqrt( DX*DX + DY * DY)
>> end rdist
>>
> Alex.
>
>
>> Lots of other way. Distance between two near or far edges. distance 
>> between
>> corners, distance to centers, or area median, area of space between,
>> overal usage area minus the area used by the two rectangles. Math is 
>> fun.
>> Keeps us in business.
>>
>> Google (distance between two rectangles):
>>
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4978323/how-to-calculate-distance-between-two-rectangles-context-a-game-in-lua 
>>
>>
>> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2724537/finding-the-clear-spacing-distance-between-two-rectangles 
>>
>>
>> https://www.wyzant.com/resources/answers/583373/finding-the-distance-between-two-rectangles 
>>
>>
>> https://www.programmersought.com/article/44554760896/
>>
>> etc
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 22:53, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode as
>>> I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary
>>> rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. In
>>> considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by
>>> rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd'
>>> measured from?
>>>
>>> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is what
>>> most people would think of.
>>>
>>> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think
>>> this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the
>>> visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another is
>>> that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between the
>>> nearest adjacent edges?
>>>
>>> Something else? What does 2 rects? being 'within' d pixels of one
>>> another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?
>>>
>>> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles
>>> being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am
>>> unfamiliar with it.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Tue Feb 16 13:27:33 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 13:27:33 -0500
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <526376f8-5877-ec09-08f4-37d3db56b5a8@researchware.com>

On 2/15/2021 5:53 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode 
> as I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary 
> rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. In 
> considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by 
> rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd' 
> measured from?
>
> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is what 
> most people would think of.
>
> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think 
> this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the 
> visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another is 
> that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between the 
> nearest adjacent edges?
>
> Something else? What does 2 rects? being 'within' d pixels of one 
> another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?
>
> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles 
> being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am 
> unfamiliar with it.


Okay, Poll Closed!

Thank you everyone. I think the responses (informal as this is) confirms 
the majority fo people think of distance between 2 rectangles as the 
distance between nearest edges or vertices which is the same as saying 
the *smallest* distance between any two points in the rects (mathematically)

I appreciate all the responses! (and the links and code examples!)

-- Paul



From waprothero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 13:57:26 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:57:26 -0800
Subject: Another question about multiple stack projects
In-Reply-To: <78B69F1A-2BE3-40D7-8C49-B004AA66DB1A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSQbrmBMB++NdvckiwPim5pBXWrPDe5mHn0fqsLw14dYgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C95E7C70-9852-41FE-B53E-C9DA03E8E568@gmail.com>
 <E7444DE5-190C-40B8-84C9-D7324A98E597@gmail.com>
 <78B69F1A-2BE3-40D7-8C49-B004AA66DB1A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <0783D809-0BDD-4B40-AE0D-9BA970F6749F@gmail.com>

What I should have done is search the help files first, but I somehow chose unhelpful search terms, so didn?t see this until this morning. Sorry.

So it appears that the only purpose of the ?Stacks? setting is to set properties for each stack that locates them within the particular app directory. Very convenient.

For example, suppose one line of the stackfiles property is, by extracting a line from ?the stackfiles of this stack":
appNavigation-Lib,resources/libStacks/appNavigation-Lib.livecodescript    (= theSelectedLine)

put specialFolderPath("resources?)&?/?&(item 2 of theSelectedLine) into tFilePath
start using tFilePath

I see, in the IDE, anyway, that no matter where I am in the multiple stacks in the project, that if I do:
"put the stackfiles of this stack?, I get the list of stackfiles that was entered from the settings.

Best.
Bill


> On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Listing them in the stack files gives LC the ability to find them when you refer to them by name only (as opposed to the full path.) In the case of script only Libraries, you can start using them at any time before you make a call to them. For instance, I have a database setup card that configures the database connection when the card is opened. I start using my database library on openCard. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 9:40 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Folks:
>> I have a question about multiple stack projects. My project starts with a splash stack. In the standalone preferences of this stack, I list all stacks the project uses, including script only stacks I use as libraries. Should I do a ?Start using? on all of these stacks at this point? But I could have just done a ?start using? for the required stacks for each of the other component stacks when they were first accessed, and got the same result?
>> 
>> I guess my question is: how does the build process make use of the list of stacks in the splash stack? Are they all built into the project in some way that doesn?t happen otherwise? I still seem to be required to ?Start using? each of the library stacks anyway.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> waprothero at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com





From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Feb 16 14:46:11 2021
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 19:46:11 +0000
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <526376f8-5877-ec09-08f4-37d3db56b5a8@researchware.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <526376f8-5877-ec09-08f4-37d3db56b5a8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <3f854cfd-f784-3c99-eacd-557911b42a8c@tweedly.net>

Paul - if you need to do this (i.e. find pairs of rects which are too 
close) for LARGE numbers of rects, I have some code to do this very 
efficiently (somewhere in an old archive, just ready to translate from C 
to LC). It uses a 'trailing window horizontal scan' so reduces the 
complexity/time from N^2 to N log N

Alex.

On 16/02/2021 18:27, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> On 2/15/2021 5:53 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> This is an Off Topic informal poll of sorts, but related to LiveCode 
>> as I am writing a LiveCode expression to determine if 2 arbitrary 
>> rectangles (r1,r2) are with some distance d (in px) of one another. 
>> In considering this problem, the questions comes up: What is meant by 
>> rectangles being within a distance d of one another. What is the 'd' 
>> measured from?
>>
>> center to center? Easiest is many ways, but I don't think this is 
>> what most people would think of.
>>
>> adjacent edge to adjacent edge? This is harder (I think), but I think 
>> this is what more people intuitively think of. To me, implicit in the 
>> visual concept of 2 rects being within some distance of one another 
>> is that they are NOT overlapping, but that some gap exists between 
>> the nearest adjacent edges?
>>
>> Something else? What does 2 rects? being 'within' d pixels of one 
>> another mean to you, if not one of the two above options?
>>
>> Maybe there is a exact mathematical definition of what 2 rectangles 
>> being within distance d of one another is, but, if there is, I am 
>> unfamiliar with it.
>
>
> Okay, Poll Closed!
>
> Thank you everyone. I think the responses (informal as this is) 
> confirms the majority fo people think of distance between 2 rectangles 
> as the distance between nearest edges or vertices which is the same as 
> saying the *smallest* distance between any two points in the rects 
> (mathematically)
>
> I appreciate all the responses! (and the links and code examples!)
>
> -- Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb 16 15:16:34 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:16:34 -0800
Subject: SSL Error - question from Stack Overflow
In-Reply-To: <EF666270-660A-4291-A73D-F3A59B4C01B3@byu.edu>
References: <EF666270-660A-4291-A73D-F3A59B4C01B3@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <918349be-5558-5696-d58c-c33d29493c65@fourthworld.com>

Devin Asay wrote:
> I came across this question on stack overflow. I like to try to give good LiveCode answers there when I can, just to do a little to boost the reputation of the LC community there. But I don?t have a clue on this one.
> 
> <quote>
> A Livecode script:
> get URL "https://www.uspto.gov/patent/laws-and-regulations/patent-term-extension/patent-terms-extended-under-35-usc-156"
> Winds up with the following in "the result":
> 
>  tsneterr: (56) SSLRead() return error -9806
> 
> 
> I tried setting libURLSetSSLVerification to both true and false, but got the same error each time. Any ideas why this is happening, and is there a solution?
> </quote>

As a cURL wrapper, tsNet's error messages tend to follow the same 
conventions other cURL devs see, lending itself to generic searches:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SSLRead()+return+error+-9806&ia=web

I only briefly looked at a few of the results, but it seems related to a 
very specific SSL cert config that results in timeouts.  Beyond that 
you'll have to read more, but hopefully that link will at least get you 
started until Charles shows up with his usual thorough response.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From bogdanoff at me.com  Tue Feb 16 15:25:04 2021
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:25:04 -0800
Subject: Another question about multiple stack projects
In-Reply-To: <0783D809-0BDD-4B40-AE0D-9BA970F6749F@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <95C147D5-37FA-4699-B5A3-15FE4C7E21D1@gmail.com>
 <CABRqQSQbrmBMB++NdvckiwPim5pBXWrPDe5mHn0fqsLw14dYgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C95E7C70-9852-41FE-B53E-C9DA03E8E568@gmail.com>
 <E7444DE5-190C-40B8-84C9-D7324A98E597@gmail.com>
 <78B69F1A-2BE3-40D7-8C49-B004AA66DB1A@iotecdigital.com>
 <0783D809-0BDD-4B40-AE0D-9BA970F6749F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D5F733-DAE7-442B-BC98-F99ED5C225D6@me.com>

Also, if you are going to notarize the application package after code signing in macOS, the files need to be where the standalone maker puts them. Otherwise it will fail Apple?s notarization service.

I found this out after trial and error. Previously I had manually put them into the package where I liked them to be, which is OK for simple code signing and creating and signing the DMG. But not for notarization.

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:57 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> What I should have done is search the help files first, but I somehow chose unhelpful search terms, so didn?t see this until this morning. Sorry.
> 
> So it appears that the only purpose of the ?Stacks? setting is to set properties for each stack that locates them within the particular app directory. Very convenient.
> 
> For example, suppose one line of the stackfiles property is, by extracting a line from ?the stackfiles of this stack":
> appNavigation-Lib,resources/libStacks/appNavigation-Lib.livecodescript    (= theSelectedLine)
> 
> put specialFolderPath("resources?)&?/?&(item 2 of theSelectedLine) into tFilePath
> start using tFilePath
> 
> I see, in the IDE, anyway, that no matter where I am in the multiple stacks in the project, that if I do:
> "put the stackfiles of this stack?, I get the list of stackfiles that was entered from the settings.
> 
> Best.
> Bill
> 
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Listing them in the stack files gives LC the ability to find them when you refer to them by name only (as opposed to the full path.) In the case of script only Libraries, you can start using them at any time before you make a call to them. For instance, I have a database setup card that configures the database connection when the card is opened. I start using my database library on openCard. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 9:40 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Folks:
>>> I have a question about multiple stack projects. My project starts with a splash stack. In the standalone preferences of this stack, I list all stacks the project uses, including script only stacks I use as libraries. Should I do a ?Start using? on all of these stacks at this point? But I could have just done a ?start using? for the required stacks for each of the other component stacks when they were first accessed, and got the same result?
>>> 
>>> I guess my question is: how does the build process make use of the list of stacks in the splash stack? Are they all built into the project in some way that doesn?t happen otherwise? I still seem to be required to ?Start using? each of the library stacks anyway.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William Prothero
>>> waprothero at gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> William Prothero
> waprothero at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Feb 16 16:33:56 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 22:33:56 +0100
Subject: SSL Error - question from Stack Overflow
In-Reply-To: <EF666270-660A-4291-A73D-F3A59B4C01B3@byu.edu>
References: <EF666270-660A-4291-A73D-F3A59B4C01B3@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <7A2D1F04-1BDC-479F-A8A4-E2D8C0FF3F03@m-r-d.de>

Could you try 

tsNetVerifySSLPeer false

instead of
libURLSetSSLVerification false ?

Maybe setting libURLSetSSLVerification does not have any effect on tsNET.




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 16.02.2021 um 19:06 schrieb Devin Asay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I came across this question on stack overflow. I like to try to give good LiveCode answers there when I can, just to do a little to boost the reputation of the LC community there. But I don?t have a clue on this one.
> 
> <quote>
> A Livecode script:
> get URL "https://www.uspto.gov/patent/laws-and-regulations/patent-term-extension/patent-terms-extended-under-35-usc-156"
> Winds up with the following in "the result":
> 
> tsneterr: (56) SSLRead() return error -9806
> 
> 
> I tried setting libURLSetSSLVerification to both true and false, but got the same error each time. Any ideas why this is happening, and is there a solution?
> </quote>
> 
> I verified that this error is returned consistently in the result. Anybody have any ideas? Charles, are you lurking perhaps?
> 
> Devin
> 
> 
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Tue Feb 16 16:43:02 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:43:02 -0500
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <3f854cfd-f784-3c99-eacd-557911b42a8c@tweedly.net>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <526376f8-5877-ec09-08f4-37d3db56b5a8@researchware.com>
 <3f854cfd-f784-3c99-eacd-557911b42a8c@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5c69783a-c561-6734-a8af-b0739bb50a77@researchware.com>

On 2/16/2021 2:46 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul - if you need to do this (i.e. find pairs of rects which are too 
> close) for LARGE numbers of rects, I have some code to do this very 
> efficiently (somewhere in an old archive, just ready to translate from 
> C to LC). It uses a 'trailing window horizontal scan' so reduces the 
> complexity/time from N^2 to N log N
>
> Alex.
>

The actual application is for a product my company Researchware produces 
called HyperRESEARCH for performing qualitative data analysis. 
Researchers can take unstructured content (text files, word documents, 
PDFs, images, audio, video, etc.) and make selection and apply a "code" 
or label to the selection and perform various analytics.

In this specific case there is an interest in generating the following 
"report". If I have coded some rectangular area of an image file with 
the code "A", report on what other of my many codes on that image file 
are "within" X pixels of my code A and list those codes. So the 
researcher would select code "A" and a range, like 50px, and get a list 
of codes B, E, F, and G which either overlap with A or are within 50px. 
If they change the distance to 200px, then maybe the report returns 
codes B, E, F, G, H, I? J, K, L, M, N, and Z.

The report generator is not working with graphic objects (actual LC 
rects, but just with lists of stored rectangles (l,t,r,b), so everything 
is in variables and it is just tacking the rect of A and comparing it to 
the remaining N-1 rects in the list of codes for that image file. So it 
will always be an N-1 task for each file where N is the number of codes 
the researcher applied to the content of the file. Worst case would be 
if they want to see what codes are within X distance of every code on 
the file which makes it an N(N-1) or N^2-N problem but most researchers 
would not have very large numbers of iimage codes.




From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 07:13:41 2021
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:13:41 +0000
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <5c69783a-c561-6734-a8af-b0739bb50a77@researchware.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <526376f8-5877-ec09-08f4-37d3db56b5a8@researchware.com>
 <3f854cfd-f784-3c99-eacd-557911b42a8c@tweedly.net>
 <5c69783a-c561-6734-a8af-b0739bb50a77@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <24A6ACC9-D59F-46FA-A1B6-4D14DC52136E@gmail.com>

Double [OT], but I just want to say that I have looked at HyperRESEARCH several times over the years, and have been hugely impressed with its features.

In fact, it is too feature rich for my needs, but it looks like a really great piece of work.

Cheers,

David G

> On 16 Feb 2021, at 9:43 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>  company Researchware produces called HyperRESEARCH for performing qualitative data analysis.



From andre at andregarzia.com  Wed Feb 17 07:16:09 2021
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:16:09 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <9d52787c-04c7-c56b-21d9-dfe8cac75b64@tweedly.net>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
 <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
 <9d52787c-04c7-c56b-21d9-dfe8cac75b64@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <345C8771-F7C5-4606-A1CF-EBC84B669FC0@andregarzia.com>



> On 16 Feb 2021, at 15:26, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> A sample 'skeleton' app - i.e. complete but not fleshed-out. Initially it would be for a desktop app (the first sequel will cover mobile). It would implement "good practices" for many of the common features, with enough code being there to do something - but the focus should be on the architecture rather than on doing anything useful.

I released:

https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html <https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html>

To cover as much of this topic as I felt comfortable doing. The main issue is that different experienced developers have different opinions about what is the best way to organise an app. LiveCode is very versatile and you can do a really great app organisation that is completely different than another great app. We don?t have a mothership preferred way of doing that, and I didn?t want to force my own bias into people.

I know that some people are deriving great value from Levure, others prefer using something else. It is a tricky topic to cover because once you release such book, you?re kinda telling all newcomers that the way described in the book is the best way to do it. For example, if I went ahead and added a way of doing all that without Levure, then some people would think that Levure is useless because the only book we have tells you do use something different; if I used Levure, then people would think that if you?re not using it, you?re doing it wrong.

That is way I stayed into safe topics in that book, I covered stuff that should be applicable to many ways of organising your code. Still, I really think you?ve surfaced an important vacuum in our community, we lack good and documented skeleton apps. The main challenge here is the wording on the e-book, it should be clear that there are other equality valid ways of doing things, and that is OK to tweak the presented approach or even come up with your own.

Since a lot of this work would involve manipulating stacks and their properties, I suspect that this would work better as a multimedia product with videos and articles.

From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com  Wed Feb 17 07:36:53 2021
From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (Andrew at MidWest Coast Media)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 07:36:53 -0500
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <36E74B12-28E4-4039-A9AC-BB98C74C3C6D@midwestcoastmedia.com>

This is an excellent idea. Provide the basic skeleton, but then demo a couple completed concepts as well to show what could be done. I would be willing to collaborate to make a finished example and document the process.

LiveCode is extremely powerful, but as others have noted some of these advanced features tend to roam from the ?simple English? syntax. A little sample content goes a long way. You still need a paid version of LC to get iOS deployment, at least Community Plus: it seems like a starter stub project could pay for itself in subscription fees.

?Andrew Bell

> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 15:26:49 +0000
> From: Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net>
> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: LC Roadmap
> 
> On 15/02/2021 12:55, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
>> It is with this in mind, that I decided to create content for our 
>> community. Books are an easy value proposition. Most of our community 
>> is beyond their thirties and have a fondness (and experience) for the 
>> written word and documentation. It is easy to sell books here, way 
>> easier than in other communities which are younger and prefer videos. 
>> That doesn?t mean that I can?t provide videos as well, damn I?ve 
>> graduated with a BA in filmmaking, I?m geared to start filming too. 
>> Books were the first step. I see myself more as a storyteller than a 
>> developer, that is why I want to focus on content for my own career 
>> moving forward. But that is only my own personal journey, other people 
>> here have a different path. I just wish that more people here decide 
>> to share their knowledge (and code) so that we can become a more 
>> vibrant community. 
> 
> Then I have a concrete suggestion for what would, I think, be a very 
> useful e-book + stack.
> 
> A sample 'skeleton' app - i.e. complete but not fleshed-out. Initially 
> it would be for a desktop app (the first sequel will cover mobile). It 
> would implement "good practices" for many of the common features, with 
> enough code being there to do something - but the focus should be on the 
> architecture rather than on doing anything useful.
> 
> It should include (most of):
> 
> ?- splash stack, with checks for updated versions, background 
> downloading & installing them, etc.
> 
> ?- proper locations for libraries, prefs files, other config data, 
> other data, etc. as well as loading the libraries.
> 
> ?- simple preferences handling (i.e. library which will store, retrieve 
> and allow basic user interaction to view/update preferences - given some 
> description of the preferences)
> 
> ?- a menu, ready to extend or remove, with abstraction of the functionality
> 
> ?- maybe a status bar
> 
> ?- some groups that handle resizing well
> 
> ?- multiple cards should be involved
> 
> ?- probably simple SQL (i.e. sqlite + your DBLib)
> 
> And of course the most difficult part will be writing the e-book that 
> describes the app, what it does, and maybe why those particular methods 
> were chosen over some of the alternatives.
> 
> Then the sequel would cover mobile, so adding features like a Header 
> Bar, segmented control, using library to overlay controls with native 
> controls as needed, ... as well as describing the hoops one needs to 
> jump through to actually do mobile developments.
> 
> Further sequels could then cover additional features - again for 
> architecture and example, not just to make it a more complicated app. 
> For example: toolbar, pane splitter, data grid, ...
> 
> Alex.
> 
> P.S. I'd be happy to collaborate on doing the development part - but I 
> suspect you'd be quicker without me :-)
> 
> P.P.S title suggestion "The Soul of a New App".
> 




From mkoob at rogers.com  Wed Feb 17 08:00:06 2021
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:00:06 -0500
Subject: Livecode IDE question
In-Reply-To: <9C0C60BB-CD7C-4924-979F-34060297B585@mac.com>
References: <6F596AE3-03C5-48BF-AAE8-C42918611BC7@telus.net>
 <9C0C60BB-CD7C-4924-979F-34060297B585@mac.com>
Message-ID: <21ED318E-0320-408A-8330-26DA55A976B6@rogers.com>

Hi David

Welcome, I think your question is totally appropriate here.

I occasionally have the same problem and I use Roger?s solution below.  You may already know this but a quick way to open the message box where you need to type the script to reposition the message box is to use the keyboard shortcut
Mac: command M
Win: alt M

For the last while  the tool bar has been staying nicely in place at the top of the screen.  Not sure what I did that made it stick again.
One thing to try so It stays permanently in place is in the ?View? menu of the IDE unchecking the ?Tool bar text', and ?Tool bar icons? and then rechecking them again.

Martin


> On Feb 12, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m having a similar problem on my new MBP, and haven?t figured out  the cause yet. Just type this in the message box for an temporary fix:
> 
> 	set the top of stack revMenubar to 25 - - - or so
> 
> 
> Roger



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Feb 17 09:52:10 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:52:10 -0500
Subject: [OT] Poll: What does it mean for 1 rect to be 'within' a certain
 distance of another rect?
In-Reply-To: <24A6ACC9-D59F-46FA-A1B6-4D14DC52136E@gmail.com>
References: <9f384650-cf7b-4cc0-aa83-4ccfc16c85ad@researchware.com>
 <526376f8-5877-ec09-08f4-37d3db56b5a8@researchware.com>
 <3f854cfd-f784-3c99-eacd-557911b42a8c@tweedly.net>
 <5c69783a-c561-6734-a8af-b0739bb50a77@researchware.com>
 <24A6ACC9-D59F-46FA-A1B6-4D14DC52136E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcfef31c-6cbe-a88d-ce6c-74ad5ea1a130@researchware.com>

Thank you.

I think it is an example of a LiveCode built app that uses many (I'd say 
most) of LiveCode's features all in one application. It was originally 
built in HyperCard around 1990 with a Windows version in Toolbook and 
then the Mac version migrated to SuperCard (waiting on the never 
released Windows version of SuperCard), and then was migrated to 
MetaCard, and then Revolution, and then Revolution became LiveCode. The 
HyperCard version used a ton of Externals (XCMDs) to get the flavor of a 
real application (vs a stack). Over time more and more functions and 
commands became part of the xTalk language.


On 2/17/2021 7:13 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:
> Double [OT], but I just want to say that I have looked at HyperRESEARCH several times over the years, and have been hugely impressed with its features.
>
> In fact, it is too feature rich for my needs, but it looks like a really great piece of work.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David G
>
>> On 16 Feb 2021, at 9:43 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>   company Researchware produces called HyperRESEARCH for performing qualitative data analysis.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 10:13:16 2021
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:13:16 +0000
Subject: Wasm and the LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <36E74B12-28E4-4039-A9AC-BB98C74C3C6D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
References: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <36E74B12-28E4-4039-A9AC-BB98C74C3C6D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
Message-ID: <90d32d43-1caa-4605-b7ea-39a220c9caec@Spark>

Anyone know the wasm plans?

I?m Woking on a project in collaboration with a number of other platforms and partners that are using wasm. Would like to play in the same place with LiveCode.

           ********
     ****************
   *******************
   ********************
    ********************
       \\   //  ********
        \\\//  *******
          \\\////
           |||//                       ,
           |||||                    __/
,,,,,,,,,,,//||||\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,o==o
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Schedule a meeting using this link.
Writing and media work on?Media Garden.

LinkedIn:?David Bovill
Twitter: @fortyfoxes


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Feb 17 10:19:34 2021
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:19:34 +0100
Subject: Wasm and the LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <90d32d43-1caa-4605-b7ea-39a220c9caec@Spark>
References: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <36E74B12-28E4-4039-A9AC-BB98C74C3C6D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
 <90d32d43-1caa-4605-b7ea-39a220c9caec@Spark>
Message-ID: <F91BAC98-D36A-44AD-8181-D5BAB71E128D@major-k.de>

To all who are also not familiar witht the gazillion abbreviations,
David is talking about -> WebaSseMbly :-)

> Am 17.02.2021 um 16:13 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Anyone know the wasm plans?
> 
> I?m Woking on a project in collaboration with a number of other platforms and partners that are using wasm. Would like to play in the same place with LiveCode.
> 
>           ********
>     ****************
>   *******************
>   ********************
>    ********************
>       \\   //  ********
>        \\\//  *******
>          \\\////
>           |||//                       ,
>           |||||                    __/
> ,,,,,,,,,,,//||||\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,o==o
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> 
> Schedule a meeting using this link.
> Writing and media work on Media Garden.
> 
> LinkedIn: David Bovill


--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de




From livfoss at mac.com  Wed Feb 17 10:30:08 2021
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:30:08 +0000
Subject: Wasm and the LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <F91BAC98-D36A-44AD-8181-D5BAB71E128D@major-k.de>
References: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <36E74B12-28E4-4039-A9AC-BB98C74C3C6D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
 <90d32d43-1caa-4605-b7ea-39a220c9caec@Spark>
 <F91BAC98-D36A-44AD-8181-D5BAB71E128D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <17B66378-3291-441F-9007-2C74C02F652A@mac.com>

Well done Klaus, I was still Googling it! I am in fact looking at articles (e.g. https://blog.bitsrc.io/whats-wrong-with-web-assembly-3b9abb671ec2 <https://blog.bitsrc.io/whats-wrong-with-web-assembly-3b9abb671ec2>)  that suggest that despite some very significant users (Google Earth is one), wasm hasn?t exactly conquered the universe in the three years since it was launched.

Would LC users benefit and/or would it be a massive diversion of scarce development effort? Anyone have any idea?

Graham

> On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:19, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> To all who are also not familiar witht the gazillion abbreviations,
> David is talking about -> WebaSseMbly :-)
> 
>> Am 17.02.2021 um 16:13 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Anyone know the wasm plans?
>> 
>> I?m Woking on a project in collaboration with a number of other platforms and partners that are using wasm. Would like to play in the same place with LiveCode.
>> 
>>          ********
>>    ****************
>>  *******************
>>  ********************
>>   ********************
>>      \\   //  ********
>>       \\\//  *******
>>         \\\////
>>          |||//                       ,
>>          |||||                    __/
>> ,,,,,,,,,,,//||||\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,o==o
>> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
>> 
>> Schedule a meeting using this link.
>> Writing and media work on Media Garden.
>> 
>> LinkedIn: David Bovill
> 
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andre at andregarzia.com  Wed Feb 17 10:43:38 2021
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:43:38 +0000
Subject: Wasm and the LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <17B66378-3291-441F-9007-2C74C02F652A@mac.com>
References: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <36E74B12-28E4-4039-A9AC-BB98C74C3C6D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
 <90d32d43-1caa-4605-b7ea-39a220c9caec@Spark>
 <F91BAC98-D36A-44AD-8181-D5BAB71E128D@major-k.de>
 <17B66378-3291-441F-9007-2C74C02F652A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <678B43AE-7F2E-423D-9B0E-CF1CF21D65E2@andregarzia.com>

Let me begin by saying that WASM is not a silver bullet. I know this doesn?t happen on our community, and that David is not mentioning WASM as a magical solution for HTML5 deployment.

A bit of context is needed to understand why WASM is important and cool. In the past, many C/C++ to Web solutions were based on emscripten which is a toolset based on LLVM that can output C/C++ code in something called ?ASM.js? which is a very compact JavaScript source code that kinda does what the C/C++ was doing. This is how people ported the ?Unreal Engine? to the web for example. Be aware that ASM.js doesn?t deal with graphics and stuff, that still web technologies. It is just very good at number crunching and makes it possible to reuse C/C++ code.

The main drawbacks from ASM.js (which can be felt on the HTML5 deployment) is that the file sizes are huge. Just imagine a compiler that instead of generating native binary code is generating actual equivalent JavaScript code. This presents two problems for the user, first is the lengthy file transfer needed to download all that content to the users browser, second is the time it takes for the JS engine to actually parse those large files.

These problems are mitigated by WASM. WebAssembly grew out of the working groups that were developing ASM.js. It is a bytecode format, so it is smaller than the equivalent JS file. It is also a standardized VM, which means it executes the same in all browsers that support it. Another cute trick it can do is that is can start loading the bytecode in the VM while it is transferring (aka loading while streaming) which means that by the time the transfer completes, a huge portion of that code is already loaded.

Not only this speeds up the user experience, but having a well-defined VM makes it easier for language developers to target it instead of the ASM.js hacks.

The same toolset that produces ASM.js can produce WASM. It should be natural evolution for the HTML5 deployment to switch from ASM.js based to WASM based. This doesn?t make it magical though, this switch alone will not make LC work on the browser beyond what they?re currently doing. It needs more work, but it should yield smaller files which makes it a better experience.

> On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:30, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Well done Klaus, I was still Googling it! I am in fact looking at articles (e.g. https://blog.bitsrc.io/whats-wrong-with-web-assembly-3b9abb671ec2 <https://blog.bitsrc.io/whats-wrong-with-web-assembly-3b9abb671ec2>)  that suggest that despite some very significant users (Google Earth is one), wasm hasn?t exactly conquered the universe in the three years since it was launched.
> 
> Would LC users benefit and/or would it be a massive diversion of scarce development effort? Anyone have any idea?
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:19, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> To all who are also not familiar witht the gazillion abbreviations,
>> David is talking about -> WebaSseMbly :-)
>> 
>>> Am 17.02.2021 um 16:13 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Anyone know the wasm plans?
>>> 
>>> I?m Woking on a project in collaboration with a number of other platforms and partners that are using wasm. Would like to play in the same place with LiveCode.
>>> 
>>>         ********
>>>   ****************
>>> *******************
>>> ********************
>>>  ********************
>>>     \\   //  ********
>>>      \\\//  *******
>>>        \\\////
>>>         |||//                       ,
>>>         |||||                    __/
>>> ,,,,,,,,,,,//||||\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,o==o
>>> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
>>> 
>>> Schedule a meeting using this link.
>>> Writing and media work on Media Garden.
>>> 
>>> LinkedIn: David Bovill
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:04:48 2021
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:04:48 +0000
Subject: Wasm and the LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <678B43AE-7F2E-423D-9B0E-CF1CF21D65E2@andregarzia.com>
References: <mailman.61.1613493956.417938.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <36E74B12-28E4-4039-A9AC-BB98C74C3C6D@midwestcoastmedia.com>
 <90d32d43-1caa-4605-b7ea-39a220c9caec@Spark>
 <F91BAC98-D36A-44AD-8181-D5BAB71E128D@major-k.de>
 <17B66378-3291-441F-9007-2C74C02F652A@mac.com>
 <678B43AE-7F2E-423D-9B0E-CF1CF21D65E2@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <bdf90637-3e73-425b-bc11-f15ca175636c@Spark>

Wasm is a pretty mature target by now. Most of the projects I work with already have deployments using wasm on either the server side or the client side. ASP.NET and Blazer is making quite a stir. It?s not the sort of - let?s deploy it now thing - but when looking at a partnership between several institutions each with their own projects - wasm provides a relatively solid basis fir glueing the pieces together - regardless (more or less) of the language if choice of the collaborator.

           ********
     ****************
   *******************
   ********************
    ********************
       \\   //  ********
        \\\//  *******
          \\\////
           |||//                       ,
           |||||                    __/
,,,,,,,,,,,//||||\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,o==o
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Schedule a meeting using this link.
Writing and media work on?Media Garden.

LinkedIn:?David Bovill
Twitter: @fortyfoxes
On 17 Feb 2021, 15:44 +0000, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Let me begin by saying that WASM is not a silver bullet. I know this doesn?t happen on our community, and that David is not mentioning WASM as a magical solution for HTML5 deployment.
>
> A bit of context is needed to understand why WASM is important and cool. In the past, many C/C++ to Web solutions were based on emscripten which is a toolset based on LLVM that can output C/C++ code in something called ?ASM.js? which is a very compact JavaScript source code that kinda does what the C/C++ was doing. This is how people ported the ?Unreal Engine? to the web for example. Be aware that ASM.js doesn?t deal with graphics and stuff, that still web technologies. It is just very good at number crunching and makes it possible to reuse C/C++ code.
>
> The main drawbacks from ASM.js (which can be felt on the HTML5 deployment) is that the file sizes are huge. Just imagine a compiler that instead of generating native binary code is generating actual equivalent JavaScript code. This presents two problems for the user, first is the lengthy file transfer needed to download all that content to the users browser, second is the time it takes for the JS engine to actually parse those large files.
>
> These problems are mitigated by WASM. WebAssembly grew out of the working groups that were developing ASM.js. It is a bytecode format, so it is smaller than the equivalent JS file. It is also a standardized VM, which means it executes the same in all browsers that support it. Another cute trick it can do is that is can start loading the bytecode in the VM while it is transferring (aka loading while streaming) which means that by the time the transfer completes, a huge portion of that code is already loaded.
>
> Not only this speeds up the user experience, but having a well-defined VM makes it easier for language developers to target it instead of the ASM.js hacks.
>
> The same toolset that produces ASM.js can produce WASM. It should be natural evolution for the HTML5 deployment to switch from ASM.js based to WASM based. This doesn?t make it magical though, this switch alone will not make LC work on the browser beyond what they?re currently doing. It needs more work, but it should yield smaller files which makes it a better experience.
>
> > On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:30, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well done Klaus, I was still Googling it! I am in fact looking at articles (e.g. https://blog.bitsrc.io/whats-wrong-with-web-assembly-3b9abb671ec2 <https://blog.bitsrc.io/whats-wrong-with-web-assembly-3b9abb671ec2>) that suggest that despite some very significant users (Google Earth is one), wasm hasn?t exactly conquered the universe in the three years since it was launched.
> >
> > Would LC users benefit and/or would it be a massive diversion of scarce development effort? Anyone have any idea?
> >
> > Graham
> >
> > > On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:19, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > To all who are also not familiar witht the gazillion abbreviations,
> > > David is talking about -> WebaSseMbly :-)
> > >
> > > > Am 17.02.2021 um 16:13 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> > > >
> > > > Anyone know the wasm plans?
> > > >
> > > > I?m Woking on a project in collaboration with a number of other platforms and partners that are using wasm. Would like to play in the same place with LiveCode.
> > > >
> > > > ********
> > > > ****************
> > > > *******************
> > > > ********************
> > > > ********************
> > > > \\ // ********
> > > > \\\// *******
> > > > \\\////
> > > > |||// ,
> > > > ||||| __/
> > > > ,,,,,,,,,,,//||||\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,o==o
> > > > ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> > > >
> > > > Schedule a meeting using this link.
> > > > Writing and media work on Media Garden.
> > > >
> > > > LinkedIn: David Bovill
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Klaus Major
> > > https://www.major-k.de
> > > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > > klaus at major-k.de
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Feb 17 11:29:02 2021
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:29:02 +0000
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <345C8771-F7C5-4606-A1CF-EBC84B669FC0@andregarzia.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
 <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
 <9d52787c-04c7-c56b-21d9-dfe8cac75b64@tweedly.net>
 <345C8771-F7C5-4606-A1CF-EBC84B669FC0@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <9DD77F7C-19D8-4A38-8791-A08583E7DE99@iotecdigital.com>

I found your approach to publish and subscribe incredibly useful. I have an app that has data grids in multiple sub stacks that each can be open or no. Many of these data grids display data from the same database table but in different sub stacks.

For example, I have a devices and an accessories table. One sub stack is for maintaining the devices at a particular site, another is for maintaining the accessories attached to a given device. There is a devices data grid on both of these.

The quandary is how to reliably tell all open sub stacks with data grids containing identical table data to update when any of the others are updated. Your Publish and Subscribe method is tailor made for such a scenario. I am in the process of converting all my data grid code over to using that.

Bob S


On Feb 17, 2021, at 4:16 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


On 16 Feb 2021, at 15:26, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

A sample 'skeleton' app - i.e. complete but not fleshed-out. Initially it would be for a desktop app (the first sequel will cover mobile). It would implement "good practices" for many of the common features, with enough code being there to do something - but the focus should be on the architecture rather than on doing anything useful.

I released:

https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html<https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html>

To cover as much of this topic as I felt comfortable doing. The main issue is that different experienced developers have different opinions about what is the best way to organise an app. LiveCode is very versatile and you can do a really great app organisation that is completely different than another great app. We don?t have a mothership preferred way of doing that, and I didn?t want to force my own bias into people.

<snip>

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 17 11:52:47 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:52:47 -0800
Subject: Wasm and the LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <90d32d43-1caa-4605-b7ea-39a220c9caec@Spark>
References: <90d32d43-1caa-4605-b7ea-39a220c9caec@Spark>
Message-ID: <e4cffddc-b3cc-d2ac-162f-dda61dabaa3f@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > Anyone know the wasm plans?
 >
 > I?m Woking on a project in collaboration with a number of other
 > platforms and partners that are using wasm. Would like to play
 > in the same place with LiveCode.

Given the vast gulf between the browser DOM and LC's object model, and 
the limited role of WASM for GUIs as Andre reminded us, WASM output 
alone is likely an improvement but not likely a game-changer.

It may be useful to evaluate how your app performs and behaves under the 
current HTML output, and then imagine that with a bit shorter download 
and a bit better performance. I'd be surprised if it cuts either 
download or overall execution speed by as much as half.

How well does your app work when exported using the current LC HTML option?



Could there be a place in your plans for streaming apps, a net-savvy 
standalone that gives you nearly all the same benefits of web deployment 
outside the confines of a browser window?

True, it does mean a one-time install, but a web deployment means 
downloading the engine again and again every time you go to the page 
using it; easier but far more tediously impactful over the lifecycle of 
the user's relationship with your app.

Distributing LC-native stack files lets us deliver a dedicated user 
experience (e.g. relevant menus and no fear of the Back button), with 
ultra-rapid development cycles using the LiveCode we know and love 
today, with all the performance we enjoy in any LiveCode standalone.



Porting directly from desktop to browser is not an easy task. I can 
remember when the Apple Developer List exploded with rage demanding 
Apple add a feature to XCode to provide a one-click way to port iOS and 
macOS apps to the Web, and how everyone stopped using Swift and 
Objective C when Apple didn't deliver. ;)

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems




From dsquance at telus.net  Wed Feb 17 12:02:31 2021
From: dsquance at telus.net (David Squance)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:02:31 -0800
Subject: Livecode IDE question
In-Reply-To: <21ED318E-0320-408A-8330-26DA55A976B6@rogers.com>
References: <6F596AE3-03C5-48BF-AAE8-C42918611BC7@telus.net>
 <9C0C60BB-CD7C-4924-979F-34060297B585@mac.com>
 <21ED318E-0320-408A-8330-26DA55A976B6@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <56E35C58-8883-4352-B3B9-0E3F49D346E9@telus.net>

Thanks for the suggestion, Martin. I will see if that sticks. I knew about Cmd-M once, but I use LC so little, and while I?ve had RR and LC since RR 1.?, I?ve almost only ever done small apps for my own use.

Dave

> On Feb 17, 2021, at 5:00 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi David
> 
> Welcome, I think your question is totally appropriate here.
> 
> I occasionally have the same problem and I use Roger?s solution below.  You may already know this but a quick way to open the message box where you need to type the script to reposition the message box is to use the keyboard shortcut
> Mac: command M
> Win: alt M
> 
> For the last while  the tool bar has been staying nicely in place at the top of the screen.  Not sure what I did that made it stick again.
> One thing to try so It stays permanently in place is in the ?View? menu of the IDE unchecking the ?Tool bar text', and ?Tool bar icons? and then rechecking them again.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I?m having a similar problem on my new MBP, and haven?t figured out  the cause yet. Just type this in the message box for an temporary fix:
>> 
>> 	set the top of stack revMenubar to 25 - - - or so
>> 
>> 
>> Roger
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Wed Feb 17 13:31:45 2021
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:31:45 -0800
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <345C8771-F7C5-4606-A1CF-EBC84B669FC0@andregarzia.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <DBCA75F4-1719-4A0C-85C5-633BAB6A3F50@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <177a1db1ab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <54BB8683-D680-4C55-A99D-83AF729D3183@gmail.com>
 <20802073-E6D0-42B0-857B-D4859665354E@andregarzia.com>
 <9d52787c-04c7-c56b-21d9-dfe8cac75b64@tweedly.net>
 <345C8771-F7C5-4606-A1CF-EBC84B669FC0@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <E2A89CE4-6988-482A-902A-3BDC36E1FD10@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Andre:
I think if your chapters offered several ways of organizing a project, starting with beginners, and then discussing the various philosophies, say how to name variables, using Levure, setting up MVC, etc, etc.

And you are right to be concerned with how quickly the information gets out of date and new capabilities are introduced. When I think of ?book?, I think of a paper based document that sits on my bookshelf. I think, these days, especially with such a dynamic product, new resources are going to be coming out all the time and the idea of a ?book? that sits on a shelf is going to limit you.

I know I?m probably stating what you already know, but what I know is that your writings are first rate and I and others have a lot to learn from them.

BTW, I looked at https://livecloud.io <https://livecloud.io/>
Very impressive as an example of livecode going big!

Best,
Bill


> On Feb 17, 2021, at 4:16 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 16 Feb 2021, at 15:26, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> A sample 'skeleton' app - i.e. complete but not fleshed-out. Initially it would be for a desktop app (the first sequel will cover mobile). It would implement "good practices" for many of the common features, with enough code being there to do something - but the focus should be on the architecture rather than on doing anything useful.
> 
> I released:
> 
> https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html <https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html>
> 
> To cover as much of this topic as I felt comfortable doing. The main issue is that different experienced developers have different opinions about what is the best way to organise an app. LiveCode is very versatile and you can do a really great app organisation that is completely different than another great app. We don?t have a mothership preferred way of doing that, and I didn?t want to force my own bias into people.
> 
> I know that some people are deriving great value from Levure, others prefer using something else. It is a tricky topic to cover because once you release such book, you?re kinda telling all newcomers that the way described in the book is the best way to do it. For example, if I went ahead and added a way of doing all that without Levure, then some people would think that Levure is useless because the only book we have tells you do use something different; if I used Levure, then people would think that if you?re not using it, you?re doing it wrong.
> 
> That is way I stayed into safe topics in that book, I covered stuff that should be applicable to many ways of organising your code. Still, I really think you?ve surfaced an important vacuum in our community, we lack good and documented skeleton apps. The main challenge here is the wording on the e-book, it should be clear that there are other equality valid ways of doing things, and that is OK to tweak the presented approach or even come up with your own.
> 
> Since a lot of this work would involve manipulating stacks and their properties, I suspect that this would work better as a multimedia product with videos and articles.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/



From charles at techstrategies.com.au  Thu Feb 18 19:36:01 2021
From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 11:36:01 +1100
Subject: SSL Error - question from Stack Overflow
Message-ID: <C2F2E948-4AE4-4FFC-B0AF-240418D1247E@techstrategies.com.au>

?This seems to be an issue which has come up a few times over the years with the curl library.

It appears to be specific to when curl is compiled on OS X to use the Mac SSL library, rather than OpenSSL.

I am guessing you are trying this on a Mac?

I have tested a build of tsNet under OS X that uses OpenSSL instead, and the issue goes away.  Unfortunately, building tsNet to use OpenSSL on Mac would mean that it no longer uses the OS X certificate store for verifying SSL certificates.

Regards,

Charles

> On 17 Feb 2021, at 7:17 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Devin Asay wrote:
>> I came across this question on stack overflow. I like to try to give good LiveCode answers there when I can, just to do a little to boost the reputation of the LC community there. But I don?t have a clue on this one.
>> <quote>
>> A Livecode script:
>> get URL "https://www.uspto.gov/patent/laws-and-regulations/patent-term-extension/patent-terms-extended-under-35-usc-156"
>> Winds up with the following in "the result":
>> tsneterr: (56) SSLRead() return error -9806
>> I tried setting libURLSetSSLVerification to both true and false, but got the same error each time. Any ideas why this is happening, and is there a solution?
>> </quote>
> 
> As a cURL wrapper, tsNet's error messages tend to follow the same conventions other cURL devs see, lending itself to generic searches:
> 
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SSLRead()+return+error+-9806&ia=web
> 
> I only briefly looked at a few of the results, but it seems related to a very specific SSL cert config that results in timeouts.  Beyond that you'll have to read more, but hopefully that link will at least get you started until Charles shows up with his usual thorough response.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bduck at mac.com  Fri Feb 19 12:00:41 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 12:00:41 -0500
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode Week #3 Meeting TODAY 2 PM
Message-ID: <3272EF92-1DBB-4691-8E0B-3B0BFD33CD4C@mac.com>

Hello, 

Here is the zoom invite:
Brian Duck is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: xAPI in LiveCode Week #3 Zoom Meeting
Time: Feb 19, 2021 02:00 PM America/Detroit

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us04web.zoom.us/j/71031947408?pwd=MzNzTWUwak16UDBlanhsTGNLY1p2UT09

Meeting ID: 710 3194 7408
Passcode: s7TM6U






From colinholgate at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 12:12:58 2021
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 10:12:58 -0700
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode Week #3 Meeting TODAY 2 PM
In-Reply-To: <3272EF92-1DBB-4691-8E0B-3B0BFD33CD4C@mac.com>
References: <3272EF92-1DBB-4691-8E0B-3B0BFD33CD4C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B4B457A9-E4E7-4BC5-9F93-B0A5EB496698@gmail.com>

I was going to ask whose 2pm is it, but I tried the link, and it told me it was my 12pm. So, just under two hours from now.


> On Feb 19, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Brian K. Duck via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> Here is the zoom invite:
> Brian Duck is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
> 
> Topic: xAPI in LiveCode Week #3 Zoom Meeting
> Time: Feb 19, 2021 02:00 PM America/Detroit
> 
> Join Zoom Meeting
> https://us04web.zoom.us/j/71031947408?pwd=MzNzTWUwak16UDBlanhsTGNLY1p2UT09
> 
> Meeting ID: 710 3194 7408
> Passcode: s7TM6U
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mkoob at rogers.com  Fri Feb 19 12:24:17 2021
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 12:24:17 -0500
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode Week #3 Meeting TODAY 2 PM
In-Reply-To: <B4B457A9-E4E7-4BC5-9F93-B0A5EB496698@gmail.com>
References: <3272EF92-1DBB-4691-8E0B-3B0BFD33CD4C@mac.com>
 <B4B457A9-E4E7-4BC5-9F93-B0A5EB496698@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D11DB9D-8153-4665-99F7-D447A4EDE687@rogers.com>

Hi Colin

It is 2:00 pm BDT( Brian Duck?s Time -- in Detroit)   aka EST (UTC -5)

Martin


> On Feb 19, 2021, at 12:12 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I was going to ask whose 2pm is it, but I tried the link, and it told me it was my 12pm. So, just under two hours from now.
> 
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Brian K. Duck via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, 
>> 
>> Here is the zoom invite:
>> Brian Duck is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>> 
>> Topic: xAPI in LiveCode Week #3 Zoom Meeting
>> Time: Feb 19, 2021 02:00 PM America/Detroit
>> 
>> Join Zoom Meeting
>> https://us04web.zoom.us/j/71031947408?pwd=MzNzTWUwak16UDBlanhsTGNLY1p2UT09
>> 
>> Meeting ID: 710 3194 7408
>> Passcode: s7TM6U
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jbv at souslelogo.com  Fri Feb 19 12:49:50 2021
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 12:49:50 -0500
Subject: scrollbar question
Message-ID: <0e04b018bf84ee3bac4f6ea724de3780@souslelogo.com>

Hi lust,

How can I prevent the thumb of a scrollbar to move when user
clicks on the scrollbar, but not on the thumb, when it's set
as a slider ?
I tried to trap scrollbarLineDec and scrollbarLineInc, and
also to set the lineincrement to 0, but to no avail.
What am I missing ?
Thanks in advance.

jbv



From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Feb 19 13:58:02 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 13:58:02 -0500
Subject: scrollbar question
In-Reply-To: <0e04b018bf84ee3bac4f6ea724de3780@souslelogo.com>
References: <0e04b018bf84ee3bac4f6ea724de3780@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKvP74JSnim3Bu7JQFowY7iRxvGQwHX9Kc2RtAcJE+OUA@mail.gmail.com>

For custom behavior of a scrollbar I think you need to build your own.  But
its not difficult from what I can tell.

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=20077

Have a look there, there is an example stack.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 12:50 PM jbv via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi lust,
>
> How can I prevent the thumb of a scrollbar to move when user
> clicks on the scrollbar, but not on the thumb, when it's set
> as a slider ?
> I tried to trap scrollbarLineDec and scrollbarLineInc, and
> also to set the lineincrement to 0, but to no avail.
> What am I missing ?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> jbv
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From paul at livecode.org  Fri Feb 19 17:08:52 2021
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 14:08:52 -0800
Subject: scrollbar question
In-Reply-To: <0e04b018bf84ee3bac4f6ea724de3780@souslelogo.com>
References: <0e04b018bf84ee3bac4f6ea724de3780@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <E766A61E-A5C2-47F8-A9EA-574F2CDB4689@livecode.org>

You have probably figured this out by now, but I just tried this on LC9.6.2(rc2) on a Mac plus Windows and setting both the lineInc and the pageInc to zero stops the user from changing the thumbPosition when clicking on the bar of the scrollbar, but doesn?t affect the dragging of the thumb.

I also agree with Tom, scrollbars are pretty easy to build and customise to suit your own requirements, one advantage is the user will have the same experience on Mac and Win if that?s something you need/want.

Paul

> On 19Feb, 2021, at 9:49 AM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi lust,
> 
> How can I prevent the thumb of a scrollbar to move when user
> clicks on the scrollbar, but not on the thumb, when it's set
> as a slider ?
> I tried to trap scrollbarLineDec and scrollbarLineInc, and
> also to set the lineincrement to 0, but to no avail.
> What am I missing ?
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From curry at pair.com  Sat Feb 20 00:05:38 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 00:05:38 -0500
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <a16c8840-22f4-f8b8-eb2d-36fcbe127897@pair.com>


e.beugelaar at me.com:

 > https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.

Thanks for the tip - looks pretty neat. I like the website.
Before going all-in with LiveCode, I did a lot with VB-style code.

HOWEVER, I don't have any big headaches, thank God!
Nor do I feel any need to try another IDE.
On the contrary: I'm enjoying LiveCode more than ever.

I'm fluent in LC syntax, so it comes as naturally as writing an email.
Fluency is underappreciated. Copy-paste coding is an alluring trap.
(LC syntax is NOT English, and understanding the difference helps.)

Being specialized, I have solid dev tactics and stick with what works.
If I take a new path, I run some tests BEFORE going too far.

So things are going well, and will only get better!
I'm also gradually creating next-gen code for my addons and general dev.
And more. Good things are on the way....

That said, if I ever decide to have a headache :) it'd probably be:

- Code quality and bug density of LC Engine and Components
- Inconsistency between some LC features versus the overall paradigm

Those have obvious deficiencies, but I've noted them & adjusted tactics.
And I'll be taking action in both areas, so not too worried.

Good luck and good coding!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From e.beugelaar at me.com  Sat Feb 20 02:57:29 2021
From: e.beugelaar at me.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 08:57:29 +0100
Subject: LC Roadmap
In-Reply-To: <a16c8840-22f4-f8b8-eb2d-36fcbe127897@pair.com>
References: <AM8P191MB12344539F14B44EAD412DEFCF4899@AM8P191MB1234.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <a16c8840-22f4-f8b8-eb2d-36fcbe127897@pair.com>
Message-ID: <001301d7075e$0af270e0$20d752a0$@me.com>

LC syntax is NOT English, and understanding the difference helps.
That is really true and with LCB you are free to write any functionality.

Not one programming language/development environment is perfect and to be
clear: I like LiveCode very much too!

Nice weekend,
Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode
Sent: zaterdag 20 februari 2021 06:06
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
Subject: Re: LC Roadmap


e.beugelaar at me.com:

 > https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.

Thanks for the tip - looks pretty neat. I like the website.
Before going all-in with LiveCode, I did a lot with VB-style code.

HOWEVER, I don't have any big headaches, thank God!
Nor do I feel any need to try another IDE.
On the contrary: I'm enjoying LiveCode more than ever.

I'm fluent in LC syntax, so it comes as naturally as writing an email.
Fluency is underappreciated. Copy-paste coding is an alluring trap.
(LC syntax is NOT English, and understanding the difference helps.)

Being specialized, I have solid dev tactics and stick with what works.
If I take a new path, I run some tests BEFORE going too far.

So things are going well, and will only get better!
I'm also gradually creating next-gen code for my addons and general dev.
And more. Good things are on the way....

That said, if I ever decide to have a headache :) it'd probably be:

- Code quality and bug density of LC Engine and Components
- Inconsistency between some LC features versus the overall paradigm

Those have obvious deficiencies, but I've noted them & adjusted tactics.
And I'll be taking action in both areas, so not too worried.

Good luck and good coding!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb 20 22:24:07 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 19:24:07 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.2 RC-2
In-Reply-To: <DCECDD92-B71F-4CE5-860B-48C1C09C0FA2@dsa-net.dk>
References: <DCECDD92-B71F-4CE5-860B-48C1C09C0FA2@dsa-net.dk>
Message-ID: <f425bb55-60ae-9702-e5e9-7591eaf0fc9b@fourthworld.com>

Michael Kristensen wrote:

 > Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> We've been here before...
 >>
 >> 68k -> PPC
 >> Classic -> OS X
 >> PPC -> Intel
 >> 32-bit -> 64-bit
 >
 >
 > More form memory-land:
 >
 > Yesterday I downloaded SuperCard 4.8.1 Trail wich still is maintained.
 >
 > I was able to convert some 30 years old SC stacks so they could run
 > again (at least for 30 days).
 >
 > It look exactly like when I left it for Revolution and Livecode.
 >
 > Richard, you might be the first person I ever emailed to, back then
 > when we had telephone modems (krrrryyyyyzzzzqqqq)


Thank you for reminding me.  I still have a few emails from the old SC 
list. I just did a dive into that archive and found fragments of a 
thread between you and me and Grant Schampel (I sure do miss that man).

Kinda cool how paths cross and cross again, bound together over decades 
through the bond of sharing scripting.


And FWIW "krrrryyyyyzzzzqqqq" might just be the best spelled-out form of 
the modem connect sound I've seen. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From dochawk at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 14:04:46 2021
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 11:04:46 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.2 RC-2
In-Reply-To: <DCECDD92-B71F-4CE5-860B-48C1C09C0FA2@dsa-net.dk>
References: <mailman.1.1610557201.380411.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <DCECDD92-B71F-4CE5-860B-48C1C09C0FA2@dsa-net.dk>
Message-ID: <A8DEA8D6-0ED9-4864-9328-FCD8754A3EB3@gmail.com>

michael mentioned,

> Yesterday I downloaded SuperCard 4.8.1 Trail wich still is maintained.

I still have my SuperCard 1.5 install disks . . . 

I bought it because it could have two windows open at once.

When HyperCard 2.0 came out, it did everything I needed from supercard, but there was no back-export available

So some new things got converted to hypercard, using the basic engine I?d written, but I didn?t feel like writing the script to turn every object in the stack into a text list of its properties and another to create the new hypercard stack.

When I started on this project, yikes, a decade ago now, I did manage to partway navigate the chain to loading the old stacks, but it was an odd dance involving an old MacClassic and reading Mac disks on a freebsd floppy . . . if the scsi Zip drive hadn?t failed, it would;d have been a lot easier to transfer . . .




From jbv at souslelogo.com  Mon Feb 22 14:49:16 2021
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:49:16 -0500
Subject: "within graphic" question
Message-ID: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>

Hi list,

I have a graphic made of a list of points. This graphic is opaque
and invisible, its filled property is set to true (according to
the doc).
In my card script I have something like :
on mousedown
   put within(grc "mygraphic", the clickloc)
end mousedown

but it always returns false, even when I click
inside the clickable area of the graphic...
What am I missing ?

Thanks in advance.
jbv



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb 22 15:14:11 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 12:14:11 -0800
Subject: "within graphic" question
In-Reply-To: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
References: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <72ab0234-a328-4238-cfcf-5a43bb2a5c0d@fourthworld.com>

jbv wrote:
> I have a graphic made of a list of points. This graphic is opaque
> and invisible, its filled property is set to true (according to
> the doc).
> In my card script I have something like :
> on mousedown
>    put within(grc "mygraphic", the clickloc)
> end mousedown
> 
> but it always returns false, even when I click
> inside the clickable area of the graphic...
> What am I missing ?

IIRC invisible objects are removed from not only the rendering queue, 
but hit-testing as well.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From iowahengst at mac.com  Mon Feb 22 15:25:03 2021
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:25:03 -0600
Subject: "within graphic" question
In-Reply-To: <72ab0234-a328-4238-cfcf-5a43bb2a5c0d@fourthworld.com>
References: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
 <72ab0234-a328-4238-cfcf-5a43bb2a5c0d@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9FCD02D8-90FA-4348-834F-EF6680796233@mac.com>

Would it work in your case if you left the graphic visible and set the blendLevel to 99?

be well,
randy

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> jbv wrote:
>> I have a graphic made of a list of points. This graphic is opaque
>> and invisible, its filled property is set to true (according to
>> the doc).
>> In my card script I have something like :
>> on mousedown
>>   put within(grc "mygraphic", the clickloc)
>> end mousedown
>> but it always returns false, even when I click
>> inside the clickable area of the graphic...
>> What am I missing ?
> 
> IIRC invisible objects are removed from not only the rendering queue, but hit-testing as well.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Mon Feb 22 15:26:15 2021
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 21:26:15 +0100
Subject: "within graphic" question
In-Reply-To: <72ab0234-a328-4238-cfcf-5a43bb2a5c0d@fourthworld.com>
References: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
 <72ab0234-a328-4238-cfcf-5a43bb2a5c0d@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CFDEE825-6146-49A8-991C-60B6B693907A@me.com>



> 22. feb. 2021 kl. 21:14 skrev Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> jbv wrote:
>> I have a graphic made of a list of points. This graphic is opaque
>> and invisible, its filled property is set to true (according to
>> the doc).
>> In my card script I have something like :
>> on mousedown
>>   put within(grc "mygraphic", the clickloc)
>> end mousedown
>> but it always returns false, even when I click
>> inside the clickable area of the graphic...
>> What am I missing ?
> 
> IIRC invisible objects are removed from not only the rendering queue, but hit-testing as well.
> 

Since the properties of the arc is available even if it is invisible, this will work though:

on mouseDown

put isWithin("myGraphic",the clickLoc)

end mouseDown


function isWithin pGraphic pClickLoc

if pClickLoc is within the rect of grc pGraphic then

return true

else

return false

end if

end isWithin


Best regards
TORE NILSEN



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Mon Feb 22 15:29:00 2021
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 21:29:00 +0100
Subject: "within graphic" question
In-Reply-To: <CFDEE825-6146-49A8-991C-60B6B693907A@me.com>
References: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
 <72ab0234-a328-4238-cfcf-5a43bb2a5c0d@fourthworld.com>
 <CFDEE825-6146-49A8-991C-60B6B693907A@me.com>
Message-ID: <ABEC222B-CEB1-4E4C-9318-0477C426E687@me.com>



> 22. feb. 2021 kl. 21:26 skrev Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> 
> 
>> 22. feb. 2021 kl. 21:14 skrev Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> jbv wrote:
>>> I have a graphic made of a list of points. This graphic is opaque
>>> and invisible, its filled property is set to true (according to
>>> the doc).
>>> In my card script I have something like :
>>> on mousedown
>>>  put within(grc "mygraphic", the clickloc)
>>> end mousedown
>>> but it always returns false, even when I click
>>> inside the clickable area of the graphic...
>>> What am I missing ?
>> 
>> IIRC invisible objects are removed from not only the rendering queue, but hit-testing as well.
>> 
> 
> Since the properties of the arc is available even if it is invisible, this will work though:
> 
> on mouseDown
> 
> put isWithin("myGraphic",the clickLoc)
> 
> end mouseDown
> 
> 
> function isWithin pGraphic pClickLoc
> 
> if pClickLoc is within the rect of grc pGraphic then
> 
> return true
> 
> else
> 
> return false
> 
> end if
> 
> end isWithin
> 
> 
> Best regards
> TORE NILSEN

I missed the part where you described your graphic. My solution will only work on a graphic that is a rectangle.

Tore Nilsen



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Feb 22 15:43:24 2021
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:43:24 -0600
Subject: "within graphic" question
In-Reply-To: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
References: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <232DDA31-A05D-4870-81DD-4EF81A60497A@sonsothunder.com>

If you're willing to do something "hackish", you could do this:

on mouseDown
  lock screen
  show grc "mygraphic"
  put within(grc "mygraphic",the clickloc)
  hide grc "mygraphic"
  unlock screen
end mouseDown

:D

Ken


> On Feb 22, 2021, at 1:49 PM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I have a graphic made of a list of points. This graphic is opaque
> and invisible, its filled property is set to true (according to
> the doc).
> In my card script I have something like :
> on mousedown
>  put within(grc "mygraphic", the clickloc)
> end mousedown
> 
> but it always returns false, even when I click
> inside the clickable area of the graphic...
> What am I missing ?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> jbv
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode







From jbv at souslelogo.com  Mon Feb 22 17:02:50 2021
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 17:02:50 -0500
Subject: "within graphic" question
In-Reply-To: <CFDEE825-6146-49A8-991C-60B6B693907A@me.com>
References: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
 <72ab0234-a328-4238-cfcf-5a43bb2a5c0d@fourthworld.com>
 <CFDEE825-6146-49A8-991C-60B6B693907A@me.com>
Message-ID: <a73f4583fb938624c7288cd70b20c6b6@souslelogo.com>

Le 2021-02-22 15:26, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode a ?crit?:
> 
> Since the properties of the arc is available even if it is invisible,
> this will work though:
> 
> on mouseDown
> 
> put isWithin("myGraphic",the clickLoc)
> 
> end mouseDown
> 
> 
> function isWithin pGraphic pClickLoc
> 
> if pClickLoc is within the rect of grc pGraphic then
> 
> return true
> 
> else
> 
> return false
> 
> end if
> 
> end isWithin

Thank you, but this won't work for I need to test the
exact shape of the graphics, not its bounding box...



From irog at mac.com  Mon Feb 22 17:51:55 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:51:55 -0800
Subject: "within graphic" question
In-Reply-To: <a73f4583fb938624c7288cd70b20c6b6@souslelogo.com>
References: <e3372c1423621cead4d4b79730b40a05@souslelogo.com>
 <72ab0234-a328-4238-cfcf-5a43bb2a5c0d@fourthworld.com>
 <CFDEE825-6146-49A8-991C-60B6B693907A@me.com>
 <a73f4583fb938624c7288cd70b20c6b6@souslelogo.com>
Message-ID: <0526EF01-6A9F-4459-978A-326F8FBB4051@mac.com>

 I?ve had this problem before and solved it with a work-around/hack using the intersect of 2 graphics with small alpha values. 

Roger

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 2:02 PM, jbv via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Le 2021-02-22 15:26, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode a ?crit :
>> Since the properties of the arc is available even if it is invisible,
>> this will work though:
>> on mouseDown
>> put isWithin("myGraphic",the clickLoc)
>> end mouseDown
>> function isWithin pGraphic pClickLoc
>> if pClickLoc is within the rect of grc pGraphic then
>> return true
>> else
>> return false
>> end if
>> end isWithin
> 
> Thank you, but this won't work for I need to test the
> exact shape of the graphics, not its bounding box...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From irog at mac.com  Mon Feb 22 22:47:21 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 19:47:21 -0800
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
Message-ID: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>

 I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.

Thanks,
Roger

From paul at livecode.org  Mon Feb 22 23:48:53 2021
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 20:48:53 -0800
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
In-Reply-To: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
Message-ID: <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>

Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose ?Options? then select ?Assign to Desktop on Display 1?, should do it.

Paul

> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
> 
> Thanks,
> Roger
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From irog at mac.com  Tue Feb 23 00:52:43 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 21:52:43 -0800
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
In-Reply-To: <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>

Hmmm, I don?t have that option!?? I?m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your config?

Thanks Paul!

Roger

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose ?Options? then select ?Assign to Desktop on Display 1?, should do it.
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Tue Feb 23 11:36:35 2021
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:36:35 +0000
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
In-Reply-To: <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>

Roger,

Perhaps you need to set up Spaces first?

- Devin

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hmmm, I don?t have that option!?? I?m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your config?
> 
> Thanks Paul!
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose ?Options? then select ?Assign to Desktop on Display 1?, should do it.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roger

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From bduck at mac.com  Tue Feb 23 11:54:47 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:54:47 -0500
Subject: Team xAPI in LiveCode, week #4
Message-ID: <A7128208-BE4B-484A-AAFE-67AE3A9B0AF2@mac.com>

We?re looking to identify times for regular weekly meeting. please fill in this When2Meet with some preferred times: https://www.when2meet.com/?11128206-tPm2g <https://www.when2meet.com/?11128206-tPm2g>

Also, we?re drafting an agenda for the next meeting:

Regular Meeting schedule
Goals for #Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode, from earlier discussions
LRP - Build a Learning Record Provider (LRP) for use as a baseline in other LiveCode Projects and publish to GitHub
LRP / Course Content - Utilize the LiveCode LRP to build example training content: likely using video profile, CMI5 or others (elaborate on others)
Provide an 'Introduction to LiveCode? session, or sessions
Additional goals from the team
Projects Underway:
LiveCode LRP - Repackage of the ADL xAPI-Lab statement building we page, led by Brian Duck
LiveCode with Leveure - Martin Koob is working on an example project for using LiveCode with LTI in the Levure Framework
LiveCode direct to LRS - David Bovill has initiated a project to speak directly with the LRS from LiveCode sending xAPI statements.


BEST means to stay connected:
1. Join xAPICohort.com, sign up for Slack, join #Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode in SLACK
2. Direct email to bduck a t Mac d ot c om for inclusion on the email list, 
3. Use LiveCode list - messages may be delayed for digest subscribers

Thanks for your time and interest,
Brian 

From curry at pair.com  Tue Feb 23 11:58:22 2021
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:58:22 -0500
Subject: LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?
In-Reply-To: <a16c8840-22f4-f8b8-eb2d-36fcbe127897@pair.com>
References: <a16c8840-22f4-f8b8-eb2d-36fcbe127897@pair.com>
Message-ID: <099930cf-d423-5a72-ae75-fcc5c1ed68b8@pair.com>


Me, recently:

 > I don't have any big headaches, thank God!

That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :)
But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck.
Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around.

It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs!
Only in the last few days, I've run across:

- two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies
- a PDF bug or limitation
- a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors
- oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget)

So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline.
Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC!
Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug.
When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist.

I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help!
Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline.
I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living.

But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough.
Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them.
Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself.

I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck.
With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC.
I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code!

(Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log.
Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming.
I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first.
But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.)

We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground.
Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE.
The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build.

THE GOOD NEWS:

There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on!
I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up.
Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project.
The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points.
That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation.

This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches.
To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations.
I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health!
I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better....

So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope!
I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches.
This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original.
Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share.
My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases.

As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs!
If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive.

Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added.
So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED.
We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs.
Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed!

THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS:

But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury.
Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :)
 From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message.

I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!"
Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit.
If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing.
And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds.
But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug.

Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win.
But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another.
We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs.

I do my part: I'll start reporting this latest bug batch ASAP.
Not only that, I'll post resources on tactics & LC paradigm when I can.
Along with addon updates and some next-gen tools! Good things coming.

Other people, and LC Ltd themselves, have great stuff coming soon too.
So it's an exciting time! But I hope LC Bugs are decimated soon.
Having a solid product would help LC reach a wider audience.

This has always been a consistent problem in LC, from v111 to v962.
Luckily we can usually work around bugs, but a solid LC would rock!
Time to reach a new LC generation. Tools & tactics help, bugs don't.

BTW LC, thanks for fixing the PDF bug blacking out fields with columns.
That, and several other recent fixes, have really made a difference!!

But oh man, there are still a bunch. Back to the workarounds/reports....

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From livfoss at mac.com  Tue Feb 23 12:44:48 2021
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:44:48 +0000
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
In-Reply-To: <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <05D79CCC-ACD6-4714-A627-8A43DD0EC021@mac.com>

Works for me on OS11.2.1 (Big Sur) on my MacBook out of the box. The actual text shown is ?Assign to desktop on? and then ?Display 1? or ?Display 2?.

> On 23 Feb 2021, at 16:36, Devin Asay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Roger,
> 
> Perhaps you need to set up Spaces first?
> 
> - Devin
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm, I don?t have that option!?? I?m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your config?
>> 
>> Thanks Paul!
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose ?Options? then select ?Assign to Desktop on Display 1?, should do it.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Roger
> 
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From irog at mac.com  Tue Feb 23 13:19:11 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:19:11 -0800
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
In-Reply-To: <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <0B65CF13-DBCD-4FFA-8336-24E73A0CDF1F@mac.com>

I don?t normally use Spaces as I don?t leave a lot apps open, but, when I enter Spaces, I see that my MBP monitor is Desktop 1 and my external monitor is Desktop 2.


Roger

> On Feb 23, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Devin Asay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Roger,
> 
> Perhaps you need to set up Spaces first?
> 
> - Devin
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm, I don?t have that option!?? I?m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your config?
>> 
>> Thanks Paul!
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose ?Options? then select ?Assign to Desktop on Display 1?, should do it.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Roger
> 
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From irog at mac.com  Tue Feb 23 13:21:40 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:21:40 -0800
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
In-Reply-To: <05D79CCC-ACD6-4714-A627-8A43DD0EC021@mac.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <05D79CCC-ACD6-4714-A627-8A43DD0EC021@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A5DEAD9A-78EF-4795-A440-03FD65564296@mac.com>

Very strange! I don?t have those options?.

Roger


> On Feb 23, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Works for me on OS11.2.1 (Big Sur) on my MacBook out of the box. The actual text shown is ?Assign to desktop on? and then ?Display 1? or ?Display 2?.
> 
>> On 23 Feb 2021, at 16:36, Devin Asay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Roger,
>> 
>> Perhaps you need to set up Spaces first?
>> 
>> - Devin
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hmmm, I don?t have that option!?? I?m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your config?
>>> 
>>> Thanks Paul!
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose ?Options? then select ?Assign to Desktop on Display 1?, should do it.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Roger
>> 
>> Devin Asay
>> Director
>> Office of Digital Humanities
>> Brigham Young University
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at livecode.org  Tue Feb 23 13:24:24 2021
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:24:24 -0800
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
In-Reply-To: <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
Message-ID: <09F8AC56-6DC6-4311-8E55-2900269D433D@livecode.org>

Sorry, I should have explained more, but I answered just before shutting my Mac down for the night. I?m still on Catalina (10.15.7), but this type of control doesn?t usually change too much if it?s still there.

To check Spaces, go to System Preferences, open Mission Control and check which shortcut is assigned to "Show Deskto"p, it?s usually F3 by default. I prefer ?Group windows by application? to be off, but that?s just my choice.

Now press the F3 key to open the Spaces view (depending on your keyboard settings, you may need to press both the fn key and F3 to access Spaces). If you haven?t set any extra desktops before you will see ?Desktop 1? for the main monitor and ?Desktop 2? for the secondary monitor at the tops of the screens. Now move the mouse pointer to the grey bar at the top and you should see a ?+? appear at the right hand side, click on the ?+? to add a third Desktop, you don?t have to use this, but it will allow you to assign apps to specific desktop views. Close the view by clicking on any of the open windows or press F3 again.

Now you can right click on the Dock Icon for LC and choose the option to assign it to "Desktop on Display 1?, or whichever you prefer.

If you wish to remove any extra Desktops, press F3 then place the mouse pointer over a Desktop thumbnail in the top bar and a circle with an X will appear, click on that to remove the Desktop. Once you have removed any excess Desktops and you are down to Desktop 1 and 2, you will lose the option to assign applications to a particular display, I?m not sure what the logic of this is, but that?s how it goes.

HTH

Paul

> On 22Feb, 2021, at 9:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hmmm, I don?t have that option!?? I?m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your config?
> 
> Thanks Paul!
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose ?Options? then select ?Assign to Desktop on Display 1?, should do it.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roger
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From irog at mac.com  Tue Feb 23 13:34:53 2021
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:34:53 -0800
Subject: Which Monitor to Open LC In
In-Reply-To: <09F8AC56-6DC6-4311-8E55-2900269D433D@livecode.org>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <09F8AC56-6DC6-4311-8E55-2900269D433D@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <1236ADE1-9134-48D8-9A70-D3C3012BF4CF@mac.com>

Thank you Paul! Especially for all the detail. You are absolutely right on target, and everything is good now.

Cheers,
Roger

> On Feb 23, 2021, at 10:24 AM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I should have explained more, but I answered just before shutting my Mac down for the night. I?m still on Catalina (10.15.7), but this type of control doesn?t usually change too much if it?s still there.
> 
> To check Spaces, go to System Preferences, open Mission Control and check which shortcut is assigned to "Show Deskto"p, it?s usually F3 by default. I prefer ?Group windows by application? to be off, but that?s just my choice.
> 
> Now press the F3 key to open the Spaces view (depending on your keyboard settings, you may need to press both the fn key and F3 to access Spaces). If you haven?t set any extra desktops before you will see ?Desktop 1? for the main monitor and ?Desktop 2? for the secondary monitor at the tops of the screens. Now move the mouse pointer to the grey bar at the top and you should see a ?+? appear at the right hand side, click on the ?+? to add a third Desktop, you don?t have to use this, but it will allow you to assign apps to specific desktop views. Close the view by clicking on any of the open windows or press F3 again.
> 
> Now you can right click on the Dock Icon for LC and choose the option to assign it to "Desktop on Display 1?, or whichever you prefer.
> 
> If you wish to remove any extra Desktops, press F3 then place the mouse pointer over a Desktop thumbnail in the top bar and a circle with an X will appear, click on that to remove the Desktop. Once you have removed any excess Desktops and you are down to Desktop 1 and 2, you will lose the option to assign applications to a particular display, I?m not sure what the logic of this is, but that?s how it goes.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 9:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm, I don?t have that option!?? I?m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your config?
>> 
>> Thanks Paul!
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose ?Options? then select ?Assign to Desktop on Display 1?, should do it.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me and I can?t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Roger
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Tue Feb 23 13:35:02 2021
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi))
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:35:02 +0000
Subject: LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?
In-Reply-To: <099930cf-d423-5a72-ae75-fcc5c1ed68b8@pair.com>
References: <a16c8840-22f4-f8b8-eb2d-36fcbe127897@pair.com>
 <099930cf-d423-5a72-ae75-fcc5c1ed68b8@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CABRqQSRTv55-G5z_pXy9YMHrnzbbob46WoA0Xte0te6WKzc1Mg@mail.gmail.com>

Good luck, Curry. That?s all I?m gonna say this time :P

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 16:58, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Me, recently:
>
>  > I don't have any big headaches, thank God!
>
> That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :)
> But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck.
> Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around.
>
> It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs!
> Only in the last few days, I've run across:
>
> - two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies
> - a PDF bug or limitation
> - a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors
> - oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget)
>
> So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline.
> Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC!
> Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug.
> When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist.
>
> I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help!
> Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline.
> I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living.
>
> But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough.
> Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them.
> Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself.
>
> I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck.
> With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC.
> I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code!
>
> (Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log.
> Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming.
> I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first.
> But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.)
>
> We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground.
> Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE.
> The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build.
>
> THE GOOD NEWS:
>
> There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on!
> I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up.
> Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project.
> The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points.
> That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation.
>
> This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches.
> To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations.
> I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health!
> I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better....
>
> So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope!
> I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches.
> This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original.
> Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share.
> My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases.
>
> As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs!
> If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive.
>
> Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added.
> So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED.
> We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs.
> Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed!
>
> THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS:
>
> But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury.
> Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :)
>  From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message.
>
> I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!"
> Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit.
> If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing.
> And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds.
> But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug.
>
> Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win.
> But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another.
> We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs.
>
> I do my part: I'll start reporting this latest bug batch ASAP.
> Not only that, I'll post resources on tactics & LC paradigm when I can.
> Along with addon updates and some next-gen tools! Good things coming.
>
> Other people, and LC Ltd themselves, have great stuff coming soon too.
> So it's an exciting time! But I hope LC Bugs are decimated soon.
> Having a solid product would help LC reach a wider audience.
>
> This has always been a consistent problem in LC, from v111 to v962.
> Luckily we can usually work around bugs, but a solid LC would rock!
> Time to reach a new LC generation. Tools & tactics help, bugs don't.
>
> BTW LC, thanks for fixing the PDF bug blacking out fields with columns.
> That, and several other recent fixes, have really made a difference!!
>
> But oh man, there are still a bunch. Back to the workarounds/reports....
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
-- 
Pi Digital


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Feb 23 14:05:45 2021
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 20:05:45 +0100
Subject: Android and Mac question
Message-ID: <8E475A99-98AC-4F79-8E5D-D8D7E6A67711@major-k.de>

Hi all,

I have one Android related and one MERGEXT related question I already posted in the forum.
Maybe someone can take a look?

Usage of the Android Barcode Scanner Widget:
<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=35420>
Question #1
The docs are not helpful at all.

Using MERGEXT on a Mac to read a QR-code:
<https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&p=202167#p202167>

According to the docs most merg-stuff is for Mac and iOS***, however I get
and error when using the script!? -> platform not supported???

***At least the commands I use in my example!

Are the (very sparse) docs wrong? 
That would be a shame, however I rather suspect I forgot something...

Any hints very welcome.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
klaus at major-k.de



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Tue Feb 23 22:19:49 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 22:19:49 -0500
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>

I have a script in my LC server that composes an email
and sends it to my Mac Mail Inbox.

I have set up a rule that says if the subject is ?Something Cool?
and it was sent to my email at CoolPlace then it replies to
a different email address with another message.

It works in Mac OS Catalina, except - the subject line
ends up being a Hexadecimal code like 3b00 or dd71,
instead of being ?RE: Something Cool?.

I find I can reproduce the problem if I just send an
email to my CoolPlace address with the triggering
subject line.

I?m thinking this is a bug in Catalina, but I need someone
to try out the problem for confirmation.  If RULES work
well for everyone else then I know it?s something
wrong with my computer.

Please let me know your results.

Thanks,

Rick





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 03:07:28 2021
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:07:28 +0200
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <2a6a103b-feb3-1cbc-7178-203303cf5d17@gmail.com>

Tough to let you know my results if none of us have your script . . .

Best, Richmond.

On 24.02.21 5:19, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a script in my LC server that composes an email
> and sends it to my Mac Mail Inbox.
>
> I have set up a rule that says if the subject is ?Something Cool?
> and it was sent to my email at CoolPlace then it replies to
> a different email address with another message.
>
> It works in Mac OS Catalina, except - the subject line
> ends up being a Hexadecimal code like 3b00 or dd71,
> instead of being ?RE: Something Cool?.
>
> I find I can reproduce the problem if I just send an
> email to my CoolPlace address with the triggering
> subject line.
>
> I?m thinking this is a bug in Catalina, but I need someone
> to try out the problem for confirmation.  If RULES work
> well for everyone else then I know it?s something
> wrong with my computer.
>
> Please let me know your results.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 06:53:24 2021
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:53:24 +0000
Subject: Baffling can't create variable message
In-Reply-To: <2a6a103b-feb3-1cbc-7178-203303cf5d17@gmail.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <2a6a103b-feb3-1cbc-7178-203303cf5d17@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F0000969-9F0C-4B6A-8D4D-1F04E686E1DA@gmail.com>

LiveCoders,

I have a pulldown menu button to which I want to append new searches that it does not already contain.

I have scripted this in various ways, multiple lines, single line, add parentheses, leave ?em out, use extra variable/not,  in an attempt to isolate what I am doing wrong.  Sometimes I get a missing ?then? error, when it is clearly present.  However, in several constructions of the script, including the one liner below, I get

 ?Can?t create a variable with that name (explicitvariables?) near text, char 113

The script is:

if the text of button "Search All" contains field "custom" = false then put return & field "custom" after the text of button "Search All"


I'm doubly confused because a) in this version of the script I am not using variables, and b) Strict compilation mode is unchecked.

I have no idea whether this is a clue, but only commands seem to be colourised in the script editor.  I also noticed that the breakpoints tab reports a breakpoint on line 54 (which doesn?t exist), and which I have never knowingly set.

LC 9.6.0 MacOS 10.13.6


At this stage I would welcome someone pointing out  a palm->face rookie error rather than anything more sinister .  


Best Wishes,

David Glasgow





From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Feb 24 07:21:34 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:21:34 +0100
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>

How do you compose the email?
Are you using the Mime library for it?
Are you using shell() function to send the email after composing or the tsNET external?




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.02.2021 um 04:19 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I have a script in my LC server that composes an email
> and sends it to my Mac Mail Inbox.
> 
> I have set up a rule that says if the subject is ?Something Cool?
> and it was sent to my email at CoolPlace then it replies to
> a different email address with another message.
> 
> It works in Mac OS Catalina, except - the subject line
> ends up being a Hexadecimal code like 3b00 or dd71,
> instead of being ?RE: Something Cool?.
> 
> I find I can reproduce the problem if I just send an
> email to my CoolPlace address with the triggering
> subject line.
> 
> I?m thinking this is a bug in Catalina, but I need someone
> to try out the problem for confirmation.  If RULES work
> well for everyone else then I know it?s something
> wrong with my computer.
> 
> Please let me know your results.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Feb 24 07:42:05 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:42:05 +0100
Subject: Baffling can't create variable message
In-Reply-To: <F0000969-9F0C-4B6A-8D4D-1F04E686E1DA@gmail.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <2a6a103b-feb3-1cbc-7178-203303cf5d17@gmail.com>
 <F0000969-9F0C-4B6A-8D4D-1F04E686E1DA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F1916E98-08FD-490F-A528-988F5D01ECAF@m-r-d.de>

David,

the Text is a property of button "search all". You have to use  "set the text...."

set the text of button "search all" to return & fld "custom" & the text of button "search all"



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.02.2021 um 12:53 schrieb David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> put return & field "custom" after the text of button "Search All"



From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 08:13:58 2021
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:13:58 +0000
Subject: Baffling can't create variable message
In-Reply-To: <F1916E98-08FD-490F-A528-988F5D01ECAF@m-r-d.de>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <2a6a103b-feb3-1cbc-7178-203303cf5d17@gmail.com>
 <F0000969-9F0C-4B6A-8D4D-1F04E686E1DA@gmail.com>
 <F1916E98-08FD-490F-A528-988F5D01ECAF@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <DEEBB0EB-A0BC-4BDA-BF26-248394D496CE@gmail.com>

OOOOhhhhhhhhh!

Why did that not occur to me?  Damn, on one of my variants I was so close, though...

Thanks Matthias

Cheers

David G

> On 24 Feb 2021, at 12:42 pm, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> the Text is a property of button "search all". You have to use  "set the text...."
> 
> set the text of button "search all" to return & fld "custom" & the text of button "search all"
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 24.02.2021 um 12:53 schrieb David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> put return & field "custom" after the text of button "Search All"
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb 24 09:13:01 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:13:01 -0500
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <2a6a103b-feb3-1cbc-7178-203303cf5d17@gmail.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <2a6a103b-feb3-1cbc-7178-203303cf5d17@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A846582E-7D39-453F-9D53-ACD12C1554C9@all-auctions.com>

Hi Richmond,

I?m sorry if I wasn?t clear enough about what I was asking.

My script is fine!

I can reproduce the problem just by sending a normal
email in the usual physical way that we send emails
everyday.  (No script required.)

I am using the Apple Mac Mail Rules option to filter.

Can you please try your Rules in macOS Catalina to confirm
if you are getting Hexadecimal numbers for a subject in
your auto reply message.

Thanks,

Rick

> On Feb 24, 2021, at 3:07 AM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Tough to let you know my results if none of us have your script . . .
> 
> Best, Richmond.
> 
> On 24.02.21 5:19, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have a script in my LC server that composes an email
>> and sends it to my Mac Mail Inbox.
>> 
>> I have set up a rule that says if the subject is ?Something Cool?
>> and it was sent to my email at CoolPlace then it replies to
>> a different email address with another message.
>> 
>> It works in Mac OS Catalina, except - the subject line
>> ends up being a Hexadecimal code like 3b00 or dd71,
>> instead of being ?RE: Something Cool?.
>> 
>> I find I can reproduce the problem if I just send an
>> email to my CoolPlace address with the triggering
>> subject line.
>> 
>> I?m thinking this is a bug in Catalina, but I need someone
>> to try out the problem for confirmation.  If RULES work
>> well for everyone else then I know it?s something
>> wrong with my computer.
>> 
>> Please let me know your results.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb 24 09:15:42 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:15:42 -0500
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>

Hi Matthias,

The problem is not with the script
because I can reproduce the problem
without using it at all.

Just test the Rules part of Mac Mail in Catalina,
to see if an auto reply generates Hexadecimal
numbers in the Subject line.

Thanks,

Rick

> On Feb 24, 2021, at 7:21 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> How do you compose the email?
> Are you using the Mime library for it?
> Are you using shell() function to send the email after composing or the tsNET external?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 24.02.2021 um 04:19 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> I have a script in my LC server that composes an email
>> and sends it to my Mac Mail Inbox.
>> 
>> I have set up a rule that says if the subject is ?Something Cool?
>> and it was sent to my email at CoolPlace then it replies to
>> a different email address with another message.
>> 
>> It works in Mac OS Catalina, except - the subject line
>> ends up being a Hexadecimal code like 3b00 or dd71,
>> instead of being ?RE: Something Cool?.
>> 
>> I find I can reproduce the problem if I just send an
>> email to my CoolPlace address with the triggering
>> subject line.
>> 
>> I?m thinking this is a bug in Catalina, but I need someone
>> to try out the problem for confirmation.  If RULES work
>> well for everyone else then I know it?s something
>> wrong with my computer.
>> 
>> Please let me know your results.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Feb 24 10:43:08 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:43:08 +0100
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>

Okay, understood. ;)

I've tried here in a VM with macOS 14.3 now.

I created a rule that forwards an email if the subject is DAVID.
I can replicate it so far, but in my case the subject changed from DAVID to Fwd: baa1

I checked also the raw email. There's the same for the subject.

Regards,
Matthias

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.02.2021 um 15:15 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> The problem is not with the script
> because I can reproduce the problem
> without using it at all.
> 
> Just test the Rules part of Mac Mail in Catalina,
> to see if an auto reply generates Hexadecimal
> numbers in the Subject line.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Feb 24, 2021, at 7:21 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> How do you compose the email?
>> Are you using the Mime library for it?
>> Are you using shell() function to send the email after composing or the tsNET external?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>>> Am 24.02.2021 um 04:19 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> I have a script in my LC server that composes an email
>>> and sends it to my Mac Mail Inbox.
>>> 
>>> I have set up a rule that says if the subject is ?Something Cool?
>>> and it was sent to my email at CoolPlace then it replies to
>>> a different email address with another message.
>>> 
>>> It works in Mac OS Catalina, except - the subject line
>>> ends up being a Hexadecimal code like 3b00 or dd71,
>>> instead of being ?RE: Something Cool?.
>>> 
>>> I find I can reproduce the problem if I just send an
>>> email to my CoolPlace address with the triggering
>>> subject line.
>>> 
>>> I?m thinking this is a bug in Catalina, but I need someone
>>> to try out the problem for confirmation.  If RULES work
>>> well for everyone else then I know it?s something
>>> wrong with my computer.
>>> 
>>> Please let me know your results.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb 24 10:50:25 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:50:25 -0500
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>

Hi Matthias,

That confirms this is bug with macOS Mojave and most
probably wasn?t fixed in Catalina either!

Now the question becomes one of does the
bug still exist in macOS Big Sur?

In addition, can anyone come up with a
workaround that produces the correct result?

Thanks!

Rick



> On Feb 24, 2021, at 10:43 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Okay, understood. ;)
> 
> I've tried here in a VM with macOS 14.3 now.
> 
> I created a rule that forwards an email if the subject is DAVID.
> I can replicate it so far, but in my case the subject changed from DAVID to Fwd: baa1
> 
> I checked also the raw email. There's the same for the subject.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias



From bduck at mac.com  Wed Feb 24 11:02:00 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:02:00 -0500
Subject: xAPI in LiveCode Week #4 / Meeting TODAY @ 3 PM EST
Message-ID: <0724A4AE-9582-4573-B1D6-E24BA2E3665E@mac.com>

As of today, **with only 4 people responding**, the leading option for our weekly meeting is 3 pm - 6 PM EST on Wednesdays, that is this afternoon! I?ll make a meeting in Zoom (details below) and send a meeting notice.

If you have conflicts, the best way to share this with the team is to add your preferred times in the When2Meet app: https://www.when2meet.com/?11128206-tPm2g <https://www.when2meet.com/?11128206-tPm2g> We?re hoping to collaborate with everyone on the team, but we cannot see your calendar. Please take a few minutes and darken in your preferred times to meet.

As I mentioned yesterday, we?ve drafted an agenda for the todays meeting:

Regular Meeting schedule - Review current When2Meet and ask for updates
Goals for #Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode, from earlier discussions
1. LRP - Build a Learning Record Provider (LRP) for use as a baseline in other LiveCode Projects and publish to GitHub
2. LRP / Course Content - Utilize the LiveCode LRP to build example training content: likely using video profile, CMI5 or others (elaborate on others)
3. Provide an 'Introduction to LiveCode? session, or sessions
4. Additional goals from the team

Projects Underway:
1. LiveCode LRP - Repackage of the ADL xAPI-Lab statement building we page, led by Brian Duck
2. LiveCode with Leveure - Martin Koob is working on an example project for using LiveCode with LTI in the Levure Framework (https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/levure/ <https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/levure/>)
3. LiveCode direct to LRS - David Bovill has initiated a project to speak directly with the LRS from LiveCode sending xAPI statements.


BEST means to stay connected:
1. Join xAPICohort.com, sign up for Slack, join #Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode in SLACK
2. Direct email to bduck a t Mac d ot c om for inclusion on the email list, 
3. Use LiveCode list - messages may be delayed for digest subscribers

Thanks for your time and interest,
Brian


Topic: xAPI in LiveCode Week #4 Zoom Meeting, Session #1
Time: Feb 24, 2021 03:00 PM America/Detroit

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us04web.zoom.us/j/8855545478?pwd=aDJrRmxtcXVLTDNycjhoU3plaDBDQT09

Meeting ID: 885 554 5478
Passcode: 6nUvZN




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Feb 24 11:23:38 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:23:38 +0100
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
 <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>

Hi Rick,

i mixed the version numbers. I tested with 15.3 which is Catalina. There it shows also the behaviour.
In Mojave the subjects is not changed and keeps the original value.

Please excuse the confusion.


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.02.2021 um 16:50 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> That confirms this is bug with macOS Mojave and most
> probably wasn?t fixed in Catalina either!
> 
> Now the question becomes one of does the
> bug still exist in macOS Big Sur?
> 
> In addition, can anyone come up with a
> workaround that produces the correct result?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 24, 2021, at 10:43 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Okay, understood. ;)
>> 
>> I've tried here in a VM with macOS 14.3 now.
>> 
>> I created a rule that forwards an email if the subject is DAVID.
>> I can replicate it so far, but in my case the subject changed from DAVID to Fwd: baa1
>> 
>> I checked also the raw email. There's the same for the subject.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb 24 11:29:19 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:29:19 -0500
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
 <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
 <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <A8CE4C82-41DE-4A8F-AA9C-4A652B935CEC@all-auctions.com>

Hi Matthias,

Ok, so Mojave is good and macOS Mail in Catalina is the problem.

I don?t know if we can come up with an LC solution work around
for this problem, or if I need to be looking at some other email
client software.  Is anyone using Thunderbird or another
program that has Rules or Filter auto-respond capability
that might work?

Your thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks,

Rick

> On Feb 24, 2021, at 11:23 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rick,
> 
> i mixed the version numbers. I tested with 15.3 which is Catalina. There it shows also the behaviour.
> In Mojave the subjects is not changed and keeps the original value.
> 
> Please excuse the confusion.
> 




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb 24 11:46:10 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:46:10 -0500
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
 <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
 <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CB5FBDBE-9D31-4512-8E3F-24BB262FEB3D@all-auctions.com>

Hi again,

I had one more idea as a work around.

My account is a gmail account.  Is there
anyway I could use one of their filters at
that level to do the auto-respond but
somehow change the subject line back
to what it should be?

Any gmail experts here that might know
the answer?

Thanks,

Rick

> On Feb 24, 2021, at 11:23 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rick,
> 
> i mixed the version numbers. I tested with 15.3 which is Catalina. There it shows also the behaviour.
> In Mojave the subjects is not changed and keeps the original value.
> 
> Please excuse the confusion.
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 24.02.2021 um 16:50 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> 
>> That confirms this is bug with macOS Mojave and most
>> probably wasn?t fixed in Catalina either!
>> 
>> Now the question becomes one of does the
>> bug still exist in macOS Big Sur?
>> 
>> In addition, can anyone come up with a
>> workaround that produces the correct result?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2021, at 10:43 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Okay, understood. ;)
>>> 
>>> I've tried here in a VM with macOS 14.3 now.
>>> 
>>> I created a rule that forwards an email if the subject is DAVID.
>>> I can replicate it so far, but in my case the subject changed from DAVID to Fwd: baa1
>>> 
>>> I checked also the raw email. There's the same for the subject.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthias
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at livecode.org  Wed Feb 24 13:38:40 2021
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:38:40 -0800
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <A8CE4C82-41DE-4A8F-AA9C-4A652B935CEC@all-auctions.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
 <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
 <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
 <A8CE4C82-41DE-4A8F-AA9C-4A652B935CEC@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <773E87E3-6D85-4F85-9B6A-7B05A4E048E7@livecode.org>

I know this is moving away from LC, but you can use a simple AppleScript to to do this, then trigger the AppleScript from Mail rules, or run as a standalone app, or you could trigger the AppleScript from LC if that?s what you need.

I?m no AppleScript expert, I just did a bit of searching and found a script that could be easily modified, anyway, this is the script I tested and it seems to do what you asked. It could probably be improved, if anyone understands AS better please step in.



set toAddress to "myemailaddress at mail.com"
set toName to "My Name"
set toSubject to "Something Cool"

tell application "Mail"
	repeat with _acct in imap accounts
		--Look For Messages in the INBOX with the subject set in toSubject 
		set _acct_name to name of _acct
		set _inbox to _acct's mailbox "INBOX"
		set _msgs_to_capture to (a reference to ?
			(every message of _inbox ?
				whose subject is toSubject))
		
		repeat with _msg in _msgs_to_capture
			set _fwdmsg to forward _msg with opening window
			
			tell _fwdmsg
				make new to recipient at end of ?
					to recipients with properties {name:toName, address:toAddress}
			end tell
			
			activate
			
			send _fwdmsg
		end repeat
	end repeat
end tell



To compile this code, open Utilities > Script Editor, create a new script and paste the code in, make the changes you need to lines 1, 2 and 3 and save the script as an application in the User > Library > Application Scripts > com.apple.mail folder, then it will be available in the Apple Mail Rules.

Paul

> On 24Feb, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> Ok, so Mojave is good and macOS Mail in Catalina is the problem.
> 
> I don?t know if we can come up with an LC solution work around
> for this problem, or if I need to be looking at some other email
> client software.  Is anyone using Thunderbird or another
> program that has Rules or Filter auto-respond capability
> that might work?
> 
> Your thoughts and suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Feb 24, 2021, at 11:23 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Rick,
>> 
>> i mixed the version numbers. I tested with 15.3 which is Catalina. There it shows also the behaviour.
>> In Mojave the subjects is not changed and keeps the original value.
>> 
>> Please excuse the confusion.
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Feb 24 13:51:10 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:51:10 -0500
Subject: S3 Compatible?
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKXi+vj8ziAUM+K+hb1GY+ciF+RfSVhE9wvyEpNoVaOgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

I'm really annoyed at the moment .... realizing that our AWS library only
works on amazon.

Is there currently any workaround for using the AWS S3 library with s3
compatible hosts?

Its beyond me why the endpoints needed to be hardcoded and require EXPERT
REVIEW to implement a function to change the endpoint.

Secondly, is there any hope this can be fixed soon? Its been under expert
review since october.

Thanks,

Tom




-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb 24 14:07:13 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 14:07:13 -0500
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <773E87E3-6D85-4F85-9B6A-7B05A4E048E7@livecode.org>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
 <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
 <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
 <A8CE4C82-41DE-4A8F-AA9C-4A652B935CEC@all-auctions.com>
 <773E87E3-6D85-4F85-9B6A-7B05A4E048E7@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <28319B18-30FC-4D07-B60D-5A79B1386D06@all-auctions.com>

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the script.  I?m not an AppleScript Expert either.
I?ve dabbled with it from time to time and usually end up
hating the experience.

Sometimes using the ?Record? feature of AppleScript
can give one a good idea of what to do.  

I would probably eliminate a repeat or two. I don?t want
the script looping through all of my inboxes or emails,
I just want it to look at the last one that was just received.

I?m also looking into what Key Maestro might be able to do too.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Rick

> On Feb 24, 2021, at 1:38 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I know this is moving away from LC, but you can use a simple AppleScript to to do this, then trigger the AppleScript from Mail rules, or run as a standalone app, or you could trigger the AppleScript from LC if that?s what you need.
> 
> I?m no AppleScript expert, I just did a bit of searching and found a script that could be easily modified, anyway, this is the script I tested and it seems to do what you asked. It could probably be improved, if anyone understands AS better please step in.
> 
> 
> 
> set toAddress to "myemailaddress at mail.com"
> set toName to "My Name"
> set toSubject to "Something Cool"
> 
> tell application "Mail"
> 	repeat with _acct in imap accounts
> 		--Look For Messages in the INBOX with the subject set in toSubject 
> 		set _acct_name to name of _acct
> 		set _inbox to _acct's mailbox "INBOX"
> 		set _msgs_to_capture to (a reference to ?
> 			(every message of _inbox ?
> 				whose subject is toSubject))
> 		
> 		repeat with _msg in _msgs_to_capture
> 			set _fwdmsg to forward _msg with opening window
> 			
> 			tell _fwdmsg
> 				make new to recipient at end of ?
> 					to recipients with properties {name:toName, address:toAddress}
> 			end tell
> 			
> 			activate
> 			
> 			send _fwdmsg
> 		end repeat
> 	end repeat
> end tell
> 
> 
> 
> To compile this code, open Utilities > Script Editor, create a new script and paste the code in, make the changes you need to lines 1, 2 and 3 and save the script as an application in the User > Library > Application Scripts > com.apple.mail folder, then it will be available in the Apple Mail Rules.
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On 24Feb, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> 
>> Ok, so Mojave is good and macOS Mail in Catalina is the problem.
>> 
>> I don?t know if we can come up with an LC solution work around
>> for this problem, or if I need to be looking at some other email
>> client software.  Is anyone using Thunderbird or another
>> program that has Rules or Filter auto-respond capability
>> that might work?
>> 
>> Your thoughts and suggestions?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2021, at 11:23 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Rick,
>>> 
>>> i mixed the version numbers. I tested with 15.3 which is Catalina. There it shows also the behaviour.
>>> In Mojave the subjects is not changed and keeps the original value.
>>> 
>>> Please excuse the confusion.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 24 14:08:05 2021
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:08:05 -0600
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <A8CE4C82-41DE-4A8F-AA9C-4A652B935CEC@all-auctions.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
 <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
 <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
 <A8CE4C82-41DE-4A8F-AA9C-4A652B935CEC@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <2586bae8-15d9-0c95-e7a9-02e92e98d90a@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/24/21 10:29 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> Ok, so Mojave is good and macOS Mail in Catalina is the problem.
> 
> I don?t know if we can come up with an LC solution work around
> for this problem, or if I need to be looking at some other email
> client software.  Is anyone using Thunderbird or another
> program that has Rules or Filter auto-respond capability
> that might work?

You're not alone:
<https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251479308>

There are a couple of work-around suggestions there, and a bug report has been filed. But 
they're talking about forwarding mail, not auto-responding.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Feb 24 14:35:17 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 14:35:17 -0500
Subject: LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?
In-Reply-To: <CABRqQSRTv55-G5z_pXy9YMHrnzbbob46WoA0Xte0te6WKzc1Mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a16c8840-22f4-f8b8-eb2d-36fcbe127897@pair.com>
 <099930cf-d423-5a72-ae75-fcc5c1ed68b8@pair.com>
 <CABRqQSRTv55-G5z_pXy9YMHrnzbbob46WoA0Xte0te6WKzc1Mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJYAmK8ReuxaTyKvNvZXtgp2UA=7VM_mUeccuAux_DPOg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Curry... This was helpful on a day where LC threw a curveball at me.
Hard coded AWS endpoints.

I agree with a lot of the sentiments..... Overall there is a lot to love
and most bugs have workarounds....but some things are dragging on.

Have a great day

Tom

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:36 PM Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode, <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Good luck, Curry. That?s all I?m gonna say this time :P
>
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 16:58, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Me, recently:
> >
> >  > I don't have any big headaches, thank God!
> >
> > That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :)
> > But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck.
> > Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around.
> >
> > It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs!
> > Only in the last few days, I've run across:
> >
> > - two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies
> > - a PDF bug or limitation
> > - a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors
> > - oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget)
> >
> > So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline.
> > Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC!
> > Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug.
> > When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist.
> >
> > I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help!
> > Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline.
> > I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living.
> >
> > But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough.
> > Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them.
> > Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself.
> >
> > I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck.
> > With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC.
> > I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code!
> >
> > (Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log.
> > Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming.
> > I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first.
> > But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.)
> >
> > We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground.
> > Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE.
> > The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build.
> >
> > THE GOOD NEWS:
> >
> > There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on!
> > I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up.
> > Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project.
> > The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points.
> > That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation.
> >
> > This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches.
> > To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations.
> > I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health!
> > I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better....
> >
> > So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope!
> > I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches.
> > This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original.
> > Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share.
> > My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases.
> >
> > As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs!
> > If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive.
> >
> > Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added.
> > So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED.
> > We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs.
> > Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed!
> >
> > THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS:
> >
> > But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury.
> > Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :)
> >  From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message.
> >
> > I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!"
> > Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit.
> > If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing.
> > And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds.
> > But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug.
> >
> > Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win.
> > But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another.
> > We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs.
> >
> > I do my part: I'll start reporting this latest bug batch ASAP.
> > Not only that, I'll post resources on tactics & LC paradigm when I can.
> > Along with addon updates and some next-gen tools! Good things coming.
> >
> > Other people, and LC Ltd themselves, have great stuff coming soon too.
> > So it's an exciting time! But I hope LC Bugs are decimated soon.
> > Having a solid product would help LC reach a wider audience.
> >
> > This has always been a consistent problem in LC, from v111 to v962.
> > Luckily we can usually work around bugs, but a solid LC would rock!
> > Time to reach a new LC generation. Tools & tactics help, bugs don't.
> >
> > BTW LC, thanks for fixing the PDF bug blacking out fields with columns.
> > That, and several other recent fixes, have really made a difference!!
> >
> > But oh man, there are still a bunch. Back to the workarounds/reports....
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Curry Kenworthy
> >
> > Custom Software Development
> > "Better Methods, Better Results"
> > LiveCode Training and Consulting
> > http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> --
> Pi Digital
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 24 14:50:59 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:50:59 -0800
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKXi+vj8ziAUM+K+hb1GY+ciF+RfSVhE9wvyEpNoVaOgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLKXi+vj8ziAUM+K+hb1GY+ciF+RfSVhE9wvyEpNoVaOgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8651a209-532e-c86b-404f-b1b5f851ae4e@fourthworld.com>

Tom Glod wrote:

 > I'm really annoyed at the moment .... realizing that our AWS library
 > only works on amazon.
 >
 > Is there currently any workaround for using the AWS S3 library with s3
 > compatible hosts?
 >
 > Its beyond me why the endpoints needed to be hardcoded and require
 > EXPERT REVIEW to implement a function to change the endpoint.

Hard to guess what that's about without seeing the discussion.


 > Secondly, is there any hope this can be fixed soon? Its been under
 > expert review since october.

What language is it written in?


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Feb 24 15:21:10 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:21:10 -0500
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <8651a209-532e-c86b-404f-b1b5f851ae4e@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAPzQJLKXi+vj8ziAUM+K+hb1GY+ciF+RfSVhE9wvyEpNoVaOgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <8651a209-532e-c86b-404f-b1b5f851ae4e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+dmWXiuE3i+jNTf5u0M-G1RUAO-6jXuqGwwTy+yhUiGA@mail.gmail.com>

Pardon, what language is what written in?

If you are asking about https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22919

English.

If you are asking about the S3 library ...

Livecode ...but the library stack is password protected.

Thanks,

Tom

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 2:52 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Tom Glod wrote:
>
>  > I'm really annoyed at the moment .... realizing that our AWS library
>  > only works on amazon.
>  >
>  > Is there currently any workaround for using the AWS S3 library with s3
>  > compatible hosts?
>  >
>  > Its beyond me why the endpoints needed to be hardcoded and require
>  > EXPERT REVIEW to implement a function to change the endpoint.
>
> Hard to guess what that's about without seeing the discussion.
>
>
>  > Secondly, is there any hope this can be fixed soon? Its been under
>  > expert review since october.
>
> What language is it written in?
>
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 24 16:23:16 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:23:16 -0800
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+dmWXiuE3i+jNTf5u0M-G1RUAO-6jXuqGwwTy+yhUiGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJL+dmWXiuE3i+jNTf5u0M-G1RUAO-6jXuqGwwTy+yhUiGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7a079a6-52c1-11ed-bd56-3975e9218ec5@fourthworld.com>

Thanks for the link. I didn't realize that one was proprietary.

Hopefully they'll read Comment #3 there. I would imagine adding optional 
args for new endpoints would be simple to do, and open the package up to 
MANY more use cases.

If you have a moment, can you bring me up to speed on real-world s3?:

What are the advantages over, say, WebDAV or other similar API-driven 
storage?

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


Tom Glod wrote:

> Pardon, what language is what written in?
> 
> If you are asking about https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22919
> 
> English.
> 
> If you are asking about the S3 library ...
> 
> Livecode ...but the library stack is password protected.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 2:52 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Tom Glod wrote:
>>
>>  > I'm really annoyed at the moment .... realizing that our AWS library
>>  > only works on amazon.
>>  >
>>  > Is there currently any workaround for using the AWS S3 library with s3
>>  > compatible hosts?
>>  >
>>  > Its beyond me why the endpoints needed to be hardcoded and require
>>  > EXPERT REVIEW to implement a function to change the endpoint.
>>
>> Hard to guess what that's about without seeing the discussion.
>>
>>
>>  > Secondly, is there any hope this can be fixed soon? Its been under
>>  > expert review since october.
>>
>> What language is it written in?
>>
>>
>> --
>>   Richard Gaskin
>>   Fourth World Systems





From paul at researchware.com  Wed Feb 24 16:34:30 2021
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:34:30 -0500
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <e7a079a6-52c1-11ed-bd56-3975e9218ec5@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAPzQJL+dmWXiuE3i+jNTf5u0M-G1RUAO-6jXuqGwwTy+yhUiGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <e7a079a6-52c1-11ed-bd56-3975e9218ec5@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <eb5da283-9ed9-c0ce-4abd-df2fdf2fd46a@researchware.com>

On 2/24/2021 4:23 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> ?I would imagine adding optional args for new endpoints would be 
> simple to do, and open the package up to MANY more use cases.

This may not be an issue with the folks at LiveCode, Ltd, but one 
possible reason why the library for Amazon Web Services (AWS) may only 
work with AWS is that is all it has been tested with. One concern some 
companies (again, perhaps not LC)? have is that if they open an API up 
to untested endpoints, there may be an explicit expectation that the 
library will work with those end points. Even though such end points 
claim to be compatible, they might not be, and then that leads to an 
expanding potential work load for the company to support a broader range 
of end points.

Again, not saying this is the case here, nor am I saying that concerns 
about broader support should mean the company limits the library. Just 
offering another perspective I have run into in my career.




From monte at appisle.net  Wed Feb 24 16:37:17 2021
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 08:37:17 +1100
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKXi+vj8ziAUM+K+hb1GY+ciF+RfSVhE9wvyEpNoVaOgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLKXi+vj8ziAUM+K+hb1GY+ciF+RfSVhE9wvyEpNoVaOgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9725A1C8-7787-4AE6-AF88-E6C7C73F9B63@appisle.net>

Hi Todd

Given I?m the expert that needs to review this (I wrote the library) I thought I?d comment. 

The library was implemented for a business customer that required AWS S3. There was no discussion or investigation at the time about whether it would be feasible to make the library work for non-AWS endpoints. Indeed I wasn?t fully aware that other objects storage services had replicated the AWS S3 API. As you suggest it?s quite feasible it could be just a small change however that requires investigation. I don?t know if there?s differences in authentication (the library only uses AWS signature version 4). Then there?s implementation time and testing against multiple endpoints which would take a while too. To be honest I think I could easily lose a few days doing this even if the actual library changes are trivial.

Rather than becoming annoyed I recommend you contact support at livecode.com <mailto:support at livecode.com> about your needs and discuss how they could be pushed higher up our todo list.

Cheers

Monte

> On 25 Feb 2021, at 5:51 am, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm really annoyed at the moment .... realizing that our AWS library only
> works on amazon.
> 
> Is there currently any workaround for using the AWS S3 library with s3
> compatible hosts?
> 
> Its beyond me why the endpoints needed to be hardcoded and require EXPERT
> REVIEW to implement a function to change the endpoint.
> 
> Secondly, is there any hope this can be fixed soon? Its been under expert
> review since october.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tom Glod
> Founder & Developer
> MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
> Mobile:647.562.9411
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Feb 24 16:44:37 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:44:37 -0500
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <e7a079a6-52c1-11ed-bd56-3975e9218ec5@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAPzQJL+dmWXiuE3i+jNTf5u0M-G1RUAO-6jXuqGwwTy+yhUiGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <e7a079a6-52c1-11ed-bd56-3975e9218ec5@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJ1+oUo=wyDeNhgtOBZzShLbakSNBQxjP_WS48VsCxX5g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard,

Yes exactly.
I just need my application to have object storage, but I don't do business
with AWS.  Amazon gets enough of my money.
The reason I planned to use this library and this method is for simplicity,
more options for hosts, and for trying different things. Like MINIO.
I am working with livecloud.io, basically wanted to offload object storage
to a less expensive solution, and also running a microservice to do a
couple of things on Digital Ocean...which is where Canela hosts as well.
They also have the CDN built in, which moves data closer to where its being
downloaded, which could be a very useful bonus feature.

I was planning for this part to be simple, but my mistake for not looking
into the library better before I assumed.
Anyways, I'm sure there is an answer that will work without taking up a
whole lot of time.

Cheers,

Tom




On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 4:24 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the link. I didn't realize that one was proprietary.
>
> Hopefully they'll read Comment #3 there. I would imagine adding optional
> args for new endpoints would be simple to do, and open the package up to
> MANY more use cases.
>
> If you have a moment, can you bring me up to speed on real-world s3?:
>
> What are the advantages over, say, WebDAV or other similar API-driven
> storage?
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
>
>
> Tom Glod wrote:
>
> > Pardon, what language is what written in?
> >
> > If you are asking about
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22919
> >
> > English.
> >
> > If you are asking about the S3 library ...
> >
> > Livecode ...but the library stack is password protected.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 2:52 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Tom Glod wrote:
> >>
> >>  > I'm really annoyed at the moment .... realizing that our AWS library
> >>  > only works on amazon.
> >>  >
> >>  > Is there currently any workaround for using the AWS S3 library with
> s3
> >>  > compatible hosts?
> >>  >
> >>  > Its beyond me why the endpoints needed to be hardcoded and require
> >>  > EXPERT REVIEW to implement a function to change the endpoint.
> >>
> >> Hard to guess what that's about without seeing the discussion.
> >>
> >>
> >>  > Secondly, is there any hope this can be fixed soon? Its been under
> >>  > expert review since october.
> >>
> >> What language is it written in?
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>   Richard Gaskin
> >>   Fourth World Systems
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Feb 24 16:49:38 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:49:38 -0500
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <9725A1C8-7787-4AE6-AF88-E6C7C73F9B63@appisle.net>
References: <CAPzQJLKXi+vj8ziAUM+K+hb1GY+ciF+RfSVhE9wvyEpNoVaOgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9725A1C8-7787-4AE6-AF88-E6C7C73F9B63@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLJ3yc_2UtXLZFd7pn83z5359qGjPmn=KuEEYBOiduTDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Monte,

Yes you are right, I will take those steps to elevate it.
I do understand that even if its easy, it needs to be prioritized.
I appreciate that its there to even be adjusted in the first place,
and its my fault that I assumed.
I'm not annoyed anymore, but hopeful that this can happen in a reasonable
amount of time.

Thanks again,

Tom


On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 4:38 PM Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Todd
>
> Given I?m the expert that needs to review this (I wrote the library) I
> thought I?d comment.
>
> The library was implemented for a business customer that required AWS S3.
> There was no discussion or investigation at the time about whether it would
> be feasible to make the library work for non-AWS endpoints. Indeed I wasn?t
> fully aware that other objects storage services had replicated the AWS S3
> API. As you suggest it?s quite feasible it could be just a small change
> however that requires investigation. I don?t know if there?s differences in
> authentication (the library only uses AWS signature version 4). Then
> there?s implementation time and testing against multiple endpoints which
> would take a while too. To be honest I think I could easily lose a few days
> doing this even if the actual library changes are trivial.
>
> Rather than becoming annoyed I recommend you contact support at livecode.com
> <mailto:support at livecode.com> about your needs and discuss how they could
> be pushed higher up our todo list.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
> > On 25 Feb 2021, at 5:51 am, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I'm really annoyed at the moment .... realizing that our AWS library only
> > works on amazon.
> >
> > Is there currently any workaround for using the AWS S3 library with s3
> > compatible hosts?
> >
> > Its beyond me why the endpoints needed to be hardcoded and require EXPERT
> > REVIEW to implement a function to change the endpoint.
> >
> > Secondly, is there any hope this can be fixed soon? Its been under expert
> > review since october.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tom Glod
> > Founder & Developer
> > MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
> > Mobile:647.562.9411
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 24 17:05:13 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 14:05:13 -0800
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJ1+oUo=wyDeNhgtOBZzShLbakSNBQxjP_WS48VsCxX5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJ1+oUo=wyDeNhgtOBZzShLbakSNBQxjP_WS48VsCxX5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <896af0b5-2b5f-5833-6579-833d42a88526@fourthworld.com>

Thanks for that background, Tom.

If it *must* be s3 then either working with LC Ltd or crafting an open 
competing lib would be necessary. Open source competing libs are 
problematic on both sides, since the dev needs to replicate the effort 
and the company loses one more advantage to their proprietary offerings. 
  Hopefully that'll work out.

If WebDAV could work for your needs there are at least three FOSS WebDAV 
libs for LC on Github - here are the forum posts where I learned about 
them, with links to the repos (IIRC all three are MIT License):

With tsNet:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=191384

Without tsNet so it can be used in LC Community Edition:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=191384

And one tailored for Nextcloud use:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=178069#p188099

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


Tom Glod wrote:

> Hi Richard,
> 
> Yes exactly.
> I just need my application to have object storage, but I don't do business
> with AWS.  Amazon gets enough of my money.
> The reason I planned to use this library and this method is for simplicity,
> more options for hosts, and for trying different things. Like MINIO.
> I am working with livecloud.io, basically wanted to offload object storage
> to a less expensive solution, and also running a microservice to do a
> couple of things on Digital Ocean...which is where Canela hosts as well.
> They also have the CDN built in, which moves data closer to where its being
> downloaded, which could be a very useful bonus feature.
> 
> I was planning for this part to be simple, but my mistake for not looking
> into the library better before I assumed.
> Anyways, I'm sure there is an answer that will work without taking up a
> whole lot of time.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb 24 17:22:39 2021
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:22:39 -0500
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <2586bae8-15d9-0c95-e7a9-02e92e98d90a@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
 <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
 <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
 <A8CE4C82-41DE-4A8F-AA9C-4A652B935CEC@all-auctions.com>
 <2586bae8-15d9-0c95-e7a9-02e92e98d90a@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <44587942-93EF-41C3-8280-27B2B14FCD8A@all-auctions.com>

Thanks for the discussion link.  More confirmation it is a bug in Catalina macOS Mail.
Unfortunately, their work around for forwarding isn?t a fix.  One would have hoped
that Apple would have fixed it in the last 8 months, but they haven?t.  :-(

Thanks,

Rick

> On Feb 24, 2021, at 2:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You're not alone:
> <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251479308 <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251479308>>
> 
> There are a couple of work-around suggestions there, and a bug report has been filed. But they're talking about forwarding mail, not auto-responding.



From tom at makeshyft.com  Wed Feb 24 17:23:31 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:23:31 -0500
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <896af0b5-2b5f-5833-6579-833d42a88526@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJ1+oUo=wyDeNhgtOBZzShLbakSNBQxjP_WS48VsCxX5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <896af0b5-2b5f-5833-6579-833d42a88526@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLpwqL=1B6v71uKzEkbjn0iziWUxM29obDVxRUVgFfXWg@mail.gmail.com>

Paul, thanks for your thoughts, you are right there are some traps with the
s3 compatible part, and some unknown that we may not know about.

Richard, thanks for letting me know about those libraries, its definitely
another option that can be used to achieve the same result. I will
definitely look.

MINIO made me drool, if you haven't looked into it, its very very
impressive and seems like a more modern object storage option for modern
software.

Informative discussion, I'm sorry I started out annoyed.



On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 5:06 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks for that background, Tom.
>
> If it *must* be s3 then either working with LC Ltd or crafting an open
> competing lib would be necessary. Open source competing libs are
> problematic on both sides, since the dev needs to replicate the effort
> and the company loses one more advantage to their proprietary offerings.
>   Hopefully that'll work out.
>
> If WebDAV could work for your needs there are at least three FOSS WebDAV
> libs for LC on Github - here are the forum posts where I learned about
> them, with links to the repos (IIRC all three are MIT License):
>
> With tsNet:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=191384
>
> Without tsNet so it can be used in LC Community Edition:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=191384
>
> And one tailored for Nextcloud use:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=178069#p188099
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
>
>
> Tom Glod wrote:
>
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> > Yes exactly.
> > I just need my application to have object storage, but I don't do
> business
> > with AWS.  Amazon gets enough of my money.
> > The reason I planned to use this library and this method is for
> simplicity,
> > more options for hosts, and for trying different things. Like MINIO.
> > I am working with livecloud.io, basically wanted to offload object
> storage
> > to a less expensive solution, and also running a microservice to do a
> > couple of things on Digital Ocean...which is where Canela hosts as well.
> > They also have the CDN built in, which moves data closer to where its
> being
> > downloaded, which could be a very useful bonus feature.
> >
> > I was planning for this part to be simple, but my mistake for not looking
> > into the library better before I assumed.
> > Anyways, I'm sure there is an answer that will work without taking up a
> > whole lot of time.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 24 21:12:06 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:12:06 -0800
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLLpwqL=1B6v71uKzEkbjn0iziWUxM29obDVxRUVgFfXWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLLpwqL=1B6v71uKzEkbjn0iziWUxM29obDVxRUVgFfXWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7cc5de1-0977-4900-1653-e19284769801@fourthworld.com>

Tom Glod wrote:

 > Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >> If WebDAV could work for your needs there are at least three FOSS
 >> WebDAV libs for LC on Github - here are the forum posts where I
 >> learned about them, with links to the repos (IIRC all three are
 >> MIT License):
 >>
 >> With tsNet:
 >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=191384
 >>
 >> Without tsNet so it can be used in LC Community Edition:
 >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=191384
 >>
 >> And one tailored for Nextcloud use:
 >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=178069#p188099
 >
 >
 > Richard, thanks for letting me know about those libraries, its
 > definitely another option that can be used to achieve the same
 > result. I will definitely look.
 >
 > MINIO made me drool, if you haven't looked into it, its very very
 > impressive and seems like a more modern object storage option for
 > modern software.

Are you using Kubernetes?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



From waprothero at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 00:35:43 2021
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 21:35:43 -0800
Subject: LC, Mac Mail & Rules
In-Reply-To: <44587942-93EF-41C3-8280-27B2B14FCD8A@all-auctions.com>
References: <7B09A3AA-3E0D-4556-BE77-AC415CB30F55@mac.com>
 <23DB5BBE-9E3A-4462-BE2E-F65617FEB91E@livecode.org>
 <76F991D5-E70D-4D4D-BAE7-C140DAB0D918@mac.com>
 <AADF2D36-91EA-4FBE-B006-A94535CF1459@byu.edu>
 <FD183D6C-B81F-46E4-AAF9-307291F4D818@all-auctions.com>
 <845C31B8-334C-4CB1-B967-4720E26988BF@m-r-d.de>
 <4EF356CD-A092-4DD5-93B0-1952EDE5AB1D@all-auctions.com>
 <09D6E4D2-3D97-402D-8E84-57DA9170579D@m-r-d.de>
 <CFB1CE82-6EFC-49AB-9112-FA4686B1A51F@all-auctions.com>
 <4CBCF025-9679-442F-9DF9-6CB4D2BDD786@m-r-d.de>
 <A8CE4C82-41DE-4A8F-AA9C-4A652B935CEC@all-auctions.com>
 <2586bae8-15d9-0c95-e7a9-02e92e98d90a@hyperactivesw.com>
 <44587942-93EF-41C3-8280-27B2B14FCD8A@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <DA24B79B-4255-40E8-BD9F-68E2322E792E@gmail.com>

I?ve noticed some odd behavior with Apple Mail since I upgraded to Big Sur, too. There has been some work on it and I don?t think it?s for the better.

Bill Prothero

> On Feb 24, 2021, at 2:22 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the discussion link.  More confirmation it is a bug in Catalina macOS Mail.
> Unfortunately, their work around for forwarding isn?t a fix.  One would have hoped
> that Apple would have fixed it in the last 8 months, but they haven?t.  :-(
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Feb 24, 2021, at 2:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> You're not alone:
>> <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251479308 <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251479308>>
>> 
>> There are a couple of work-around suggestions there, and a bug report has been filed. But they're talking about forwarding mail, not auto-responding.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

William Prothero
waprothero at gmail.com






From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Feb 25 10:26:46 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:26:46 -0500
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <e7cc5de1-0977-4900-1653-e19284769801@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAPzQJLLpwqL=1B6v71uKzEkbjn0iziWUxM29obDVxRUVgFfXWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e7cc5de1-0977-4900-1653-e19284769801@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJUQZR-JYVR7GwuS8cv7F9ksJnpBYvWAp+TMxvFRoJnzA@mail.gmail.com>

My goal is to be able to outsource the cloud services entirely .... I know
digital ocean has managed kubernetes and I can choose to use that.
So yes, if LC S3 library is corrected, then that would be my chosen option
Minio on managed kubernetes.
Otherwise I think WebDAV will be a second option......(I could also build a
microservice in go to upload instead of doing it directly from LC.)
I'm really sold on MINIO, so I will bend over backwards to use it.

But I do not need to decide on this until the summer.

Thanks for your helpful suggestions.

Tom

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 9:13 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Tom Glod wrote:
>
>  > Richard Gaskin wrote:
>  >> If WebDAV could work for your needs there are at least three FOSS
>  >> WebDAV libs for LC on Github - here are the forum posts where I
>  >> learned about them, with links to the repos (IIRC all three are
>  >> MIT License):
>  >>
>  >> With tsNet:
>  >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=191384
>  >>
>  >> Without tsNet so it can be used in LC Community Edition:
>  >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=191384
>  >>
>  >> And one tailored for Nextcloud use:
>  >>
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32377&p=178069#p188099
>  >
>  >
>  > Richard, thanks for letting me know about those libraries, its
>  > definitely another option that can be used to achieve the same
>  > result. I will definitely look.
>  >
>  > MINIO made me drool, if you haven't looked into it, its very very
>  > impressive and seems like a more modern object storage option for
>  > modern software.
>
> Are you using Kubernetes?
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 25 11:36:59 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 08:36:59 -0800
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJUQZR-JYVR7GwuS8cv7F9ksJnpBYvWAp+TMxvFRoJnzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJUQZR-JYVR7GwuS8cv7F9ksJnpBYvWAp+TMxvFRoJnzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1203b1b6-ef48-3c7b-02f6-6e76e2858791@fourthworld.com>

Tom Glod wrote:
> My goal is to be able to outsource the cloud services entirely .... I know
> digital ocean has managed kubernetes and I can choose to use that.
> So yes, if LC S3 library is corrected, then that would be my chosen option
> Minio on managed kubernetes.
> Otherwise I think WebDAV will be a second option......(I could also build a
> microservice in go to upload instead of doing it directly from LC.)

Oooh, I didn't realize DO offered a managed Kubernetes option, very 
useful to know. Thanks.

When you get further along I hope you'll consider writing up a guest 
blog post on your project. LC can play such a valuable role on both 
client and server ends of a SaaS offering, it's a shame we have 
relatively few ambitious stories being told in our community.  Hopefully 
yours will help inspire others.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Thu Feb 25 12:24:19 2021
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:24:19 -0800
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <1203b1b6-ef48-3c7b-02f6-6e76e2858791@fourthworld.com>
References: <1203b1b6-ef48-3c7b-02f6-6e76e2858791@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <F1176460-71D6-47E1-9A3C-292B6F153769@elloco.com>

From this conversation am I to assume that if I am planning on building a project that relies on AWS S3, I?m gonna have to roll my own connector to it?

Kee Nethery





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 25 13:05:06 2021
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:05:06 -0800
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <F1176460-71D6-47E1-9A3C-292B6F153769@elloco.com>
References: <F1176460-71D6-47E1-9A3C-292B6F153769@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <b3db7674-f2c7-6a33-e05e-e4648d955945@fourthworld.com>

Kee Nethery wrote:

 > From this conversation am I to assume that if I am planning
 > on building a project that relies on AWS S3, I?m gonna have
 > to roll my own connector to it?

It seems the opposite: if you need S3 storage, AWS is the only one 
supported by the LC lib included in proprietary editions.

You would only need to roll your own if you want S3 from another 
provider, which is the circumstance Tom has which prompted this thread.

Monte described the history of the library a couple posts back:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/263537.html

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Thu Feb 25 15:11:20 2021
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:11:20 -0800
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <b3db7674-f2c7-6a33-e05e-e4648d955945@fourthworld.com>
References: <b3db7674-f2c7-6a33-e05e-e4648d955945@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FE1951F7-3247-4BC8-B396-2953F7824EAF@elloco.com>

Thank you for the clarification.

Kee Nethery

> On Feb 25, 2021, at 10:06 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Kee Nethery wrote:
> 
> > From this conversation am I to assume that if I am planning
> > on building a project that relies on AWS S3, I?m gonna have
> > to roll my own connector to it?
> 
> It seems the opposite: if you need S3 storage, AWS is the only one supported by the LC lib included in proprietary editions.
> 
> You would only need to roll your own if you want S3 from another provider, which is the circumstance Tom has which prompted this thread.
> 
> Monte described the history of the library a couple posts back:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/263537.html
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hakan at exformedia.se  Fri Feb 26 08:25:12 2021
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:25:12 +0100
Subject: HTML internal to stack - best practices
In-Reply-To: <338A728B-4814-4F3E-BC6C-9D415CE95039@mac.com>
References: <338A728B-4814-4F3E-BC6C-9D415CE95039@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1ecd2d15-a9b1-4443-8bd0-e3bff11adde5@Spark>

Found this old mail, but no answer?! Maybe just me, but here goes.

LiveCode has a strong connection between the browser and the LiveCode engine as you can call LiveCode handlers from within your JavaScript and call JavaScript from within your LiveCode handlers. You can also detect clicks on links, when pages load in the browser etc. But there are some quirks we need to know.

a .The Browser widget runs kind of on its own. If you save something from an HTML form in a JavaScript variable this is not automagically transfered to LiveCode and vice versa.
b. The browser widget ?takes over? the rect where it displays the web page and you can thus not overlay LiveCode controls on top of the browser. We can kind of fake this but might be good to know!

So to your questions:

1) How you store the HTML doesn?t matter! IF you stor it in a property, field, variable or file is not important. Doing: ?set the htmlText of widget ?browser" to ?' will be the same as long the stuff you add evaluates to some (HTML) text. If it is a file it might be better to just set the url of the widget though.

2) The short answer is: no. You can include an HTML-file that loads CSS and JavaScript as a normal web page would do. But remember that you can?t link to some CSS that only resides within LiveCode. You can only link to a file. But there is nothing stopping you from within LiveCode create the HTML, CSS and JavaScript on the fly. Output the CSS and JavaScript to temporary files (that you link to in your HTML!) and then set the htmlText of the widget. Or save out all three files and then set the url.
If you want to build the page progressively from LiveCode you can do that also. BUT you need to either keep a copy of the HTML code in LiveCode that you edit and then reset the htmlText of the widget OR you can prepare some JavaScript functions that you can call from within LiveCode that in turn manipulates the DOM.

3) If you still are talking about the browser widget there are some lessons at https://lessons.livecode.com but I can agree that the material might need some updates as has been discussed here on the list before. Also take a look at the Dictionary. In the left column there you can find ?browser?. Click on that and you will focus on browser related stuff. There are some good things in the Dictionary!

Happy Coding!

:-H?kan
On 13 Feb 2021, 19:20 +0100, Brian K. Duck via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I?m looking to understand, find references, and hopefully *examples* of a stack with html, css, JavaScript, JSON and JavaScript libraries that are stored internal to the stack.
> Some files must be modified by the user, others are untouched by user data, but included via <script> tags in the html.
>
> The stack will need to allow access, via LC fields, to variables in the JS libraries to define the server and authentication data specific to the user.
>
> The user will be filling in a form in the html, so that should be stored and modifiable by the user.
>
> The immediate need is to keep the code internal to the stack, to provide a single file solution.
>
> Questions for the list:
> 1) How is storing HTML in a text field or variable different from setting a property?
>
> 2) Do I need to assemble the HTML, CSS, and JavaScript into a single object then set the HTMLtext of the browser widget?
>
> 3) what examples or references are relevant for LC 9.6? I can go quite far back in the list, on the discussion boards or in the learning materials; but I don?t see good guidance for new features that have replaced old techniques.
>
> Sent from my iPhone,
> Brian Duck
>
> > On Feb 13, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Brian K. Duck <bduck at mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > Erik,
> >
> > The YouTube url has been validated and is included because the direct link to our GitHub team link requires:
> > 1) a logged in user
> > 2) the user must be a member of the ?xAPI Cohort Spring 2021? group
> >
> > GitHub gives a 404 error if either of these conditions are not met, there is no feedback provided other than this error number.
> >
> > Anyone wishing to see the code is welcome to join the xAPI Learning Cohort and request access to the Cohort GitHub area.
> >
> > The YouTube url does not have this limitation.
> >
> > As I am cross posting to: use-LiveCode, gutHub discussions, slack channels, and direct email to our team; I?m working to keep the urls posted valid, but I am learning as I go.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone,
> > Brian Duck
> >
> > > On Feb 13, 2021, at 12:00 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> > >
> > > The URL is not correct.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Erik
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hakan at exformedia.se  Fri Feb 26 08:52:06 2021
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:52:06 +0100
Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g8CPo3xRdGAdtPR0icq0XNyWciGP0YtCn-D=ojgZE_9Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g8CPo3xRdGAdtPR0icq0XNyWciGP0YtCn-D=ojgZE_9Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <90770d83-f323-4d7c-b95f-ddbf9433af3e@Spark>

On macOS URL link files are stored as a plist-file like:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>URL</key>
	<string>https://lessons.livecode.com/</string>
</dict>
</plist>

So you can open the file as text and then parse the content.

:-H?kan
On 12 Feb 2021, 18:55 +0100, R.H. via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I am on Windows 10 (but answer will apply to MacOS as well).
>
> I am trying to read the URL property of a file that I create simply
> dragging-dropping the Internet address from my browser to the Desktop and
> then storing this file. There are thousands now!!!
>
> Some of such files are readable text files with the readable content
> "[internetshortcut], URL: xxx etc." -- but most Internet shortcut files on
> Windows with the invisible .url or .ink extension are empty when trying to
> read with using a text editor or opening them in LiveCode.
>
> In such Windows file's there is a property url:<link> that contains the web
> address. It is visible when opening using the right mouse button (context
> menu) and then selecting the "properties" item. When double-clicking such
> file, the default browser will open and open the web page directed to.
>
> But I want to read this URL property as text directly and use it from
> within LiveCode.
>
> I assume that these Internet shortcuts store the URL information not in the
> file itself, or I just cannot get to this information.
>
> I found one batch file script that promises such a solution. Such batch
> text file can be called through the SHELL() command and will then execute.
> It has the file extension ".bat".
>
> #-- START BATCH SCRIPT
> echo off
> setlocal enableextensions enabledelayedexpansion
> pushd %1
> for %%F in (%1\*.url) do (
> echo %%~dpnxF
> call :findurl "%%~dpnxF"
> )
> popd
> goto end
> :findurl inputfile
> set url=
> for /f "tokens=2 delims==" %%i in ('findstr URL %1') do set url=%%i
> echo %url%
> echo -----
> :end
> #-- END BATCH SCRIPT
>
> Unfortunately, my knowledge of such batch scripts is very limited.
>
> I get error messages when calling the batch file through the shell
> function. Maybe there is someone here who can interpret this script? To me
> it would be sufficient to simply call shell("location of the file and file
> name of the url-file .. shell commands") and receive back the URL property
> as text. Or is there any other way to get to this information?
>
> Since LC is cross-platform, such solution also would be nice to have for
> OSX and Linux?
>
> Regards, Roland
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Feb 26 10:26:27 2021
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:26:27 +0100
Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g8CPo3xRdGAdtPR0icq0XNyWciGP0YtCn-D=ojgZE_9Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g8CPo3xRdGAdtPR0icq0XNyWciGP0YtCn-D=ojgZE_9Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6B9A1D47-A903-4222-9A05-2333F218DD30@m-r-d.de>



I tried here to find an "empty" .url file, but w/o success. My .url files i have collected over the years on my Windows VM are all textfiles. If you could provide a link to such an empty one, i would be really interested to see that.

Regarding the .lnk files, which seem to be in a binary form, did you already see this discussion here?
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/397125/reading-the-target-of-a-lnk-file-in-python

Someone posted a Python script there which is able to read the target of an .lnk file.
May be that is an alternative.

Matthias




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 12.02.2021 um 18:53 schrieb R.H. via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I am on Windows 10 (but answer will apply to MacOS as well).
> 
> I am trying to read the URL property of a file that I create simply
> dragging-dropping the Internet address from my browser to the Desktop and
> then storing this file. There are thousands now!!!
> 
> Some of such files are readable text files with the readable content
> "[internetshortcut], URL: xxx etc." -- but most Internet shortcut files on
> Windows with the invisible .url or .ink extension are empty when trying to
> read with using a text editor or opening them in LiveCode.
> 
> In such Windows file's there is a property url:<link> that contains the web
> address. It is visible when opening using the right mouse button (context
> menu) and then selecting the "properties" item. When double-clicking such
> file, the default browser will open and open the web page directed to.
> 
> But I want to read this URL property as text directly and use it from
> within LiveCode.
> 
> I assume that these Internet shortcuts store the URL information not in the
> file itself, or I just cannot get to this information.
> 
> I found one batch file script that promises such a solution. Such batch
> text file can be called through the SHELL() command and will then execute.
> It has the file extension ".bat".
> 
> #-- START BATCH SCRIPT
> echo off
> setlocal enableextensions enabledelayedexpansion
> pushd %1
> for %%F in (%1\*.url) do (
>   echo %%~dpnxF
>   call :findurl "%%~dpnxF"
> )
> popd
> goto end
> :findurl inputfile
> set url=
> for /f "tokens=2 delims==" %%i in ('findstr URL %1') do set url=%%i
> echo %url%
> echo -----
> :end
> #-- END BATCH SCRIPT
> 
> Unfortunately, my knowledge of such batch scripts is very limited.
> 
> I get error messages when calling the batch file through the shell
> function. Maybe there is someone here who can interpret this script? To me
> it would be sufficient to simply call shell("location of the file and file
> name of the url-file .. shell commands") and receive back the URL property
> as text. Or is there any other way to get to this information?
> 
> Since LC is cross-platform, such solution also would be nice to have for
> OSX and Linux?
> 
> Regards, Roland
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bduck at mac.com  Fri Feb 26 11:44:13 2021
From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:44:13 -0500
Subject: HTML internal to stack - best practices
In-Reply-To: <1ecd2d15-a9b1-4443-8bd0-e3bff11adde5@Spark>
References: <338A728B-4814-4F3E-BC6C-9D415CE95039@mac.com>
 <1ecd2d15-a9b1-4443-8bd0-e3bff11adde5@Spark>
Message-ID: <79116410-65F3-4D4C-8975-819497DB59A9@mac.com>

H?kan,

Thanks for the detailed response.

I?ll take some time and work through the lessons and examples you recommended.

Brian

> On Feb 26, 2021, at 8:25 AM, hakan at exformedia.se wrote:
> 
> Found this old mail, but no answer?! Maybe just me, but here goes.
> 
> So to your questions:
> 
> Happy Coding!
> 
> :-H?kan
> On 13 Feb 2021, 19:20 +0100, Brian K. Duck via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:13:01 2021
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 22:13:01 +0100
Subject: Mandatory for new Andorid apps on Play
Message-ID: <62c680ef-73cd-f44e-2be3-7e7ec082d162@gmail.com>

For users of android some needed changes are mandatory, perhaps these 
should again be updated in LC:



Upcoming Google Play and Android deadlines
Updated Real-Money Gambling, Games, and Contests policy

On March 1, we?re expanding the number of countries where you can 
publish licensed real-money gambling apps and introducing new 
requirements for gamified loyalty programs.

Approval required for background location access

If your app uses location in the background, start the approval process 
by completing the permissions declaration from the App content page 
(Policy > App content) in Google Play Console.

New apps submitted after April 16, 2020 need approval to access 
background location. Apps published before April 16, 2020 need approval 
by March 29.

August 2021:

New apps must target at least Android 11 (API level 30). 
<---------------------IMPORTANT
New apps and games must publish with the Android App Bundle. 
<---------------IMPORTANT
New apps using Play Billing must use Billing Library version 3 or newer.







From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 02:41:02 2021
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:41:02 +0100
Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files
In-Reply-To: <90770d83-f323-4d7c-b95f-ddbf9433af3e@Spark>
References: <CAG1Q0g8CPo3xRdGAdtPR0icq0XNyWciGP0YtCn-D=ojgZE_9Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <90770d83-f323-4d7c-b95f-ddbf9433af3e@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g8+Rs=p3oaMKjWCUsZLTeNxS+7fUbB3+jMm2xWHA6OEGg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Hakan

Thank you very much for this information. As you may have noticed, I had
solved the problem using the Batch file the same day I posted the question
for Windows.

For Mac, I had no idea and your input is highly appreciated. For Linux I
also do not know.

Actually, these special files on Windows (with the hidden ".url" extension)
are usually fine to read simply using URL("binfile:" & tFilePath ). My
problem has be with a number of files that returned empty for unknown
reasons.

It is a more difficult to parse "shortcut" or ".lnk" files in Windows since
they have a binary format and to extract relevant information requires
knowing the detailed file structure and reading relevant bytes or trying a
hack to extract the readable links they represent without (which I did so
far). Also for these files, Windows hides the extension ".lnk", but it is
visible when calling files (tFolderpath) in LiveCode.

Happy weekend
Roland

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 2:52 PM <hakan at exformedia.se> wrote:

> On macOS URL link files are stored as a plist-file like:
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "
> http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
> <key>URL</key>
> <string>https://lessons.livecode.com/</string>
> </dict>
> </plist>
>
> So you can open the file as text and then parse the content.
>
> :-H?kan
> On 12 Feb 2021, 18:55 +0100, R.H. via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>
> I am on Windows 10 (but answer will apply to MacOS as well).
>
> I am trying to read the URL property of a file that I create simply
> dragging-dropping the Internet address from my browser to the Desktop and
> then storing this file. There are thousands now!!!
>
> Some of such files are readable text files with the readable content
> "[internetshortcut], URL: xxx etc." -- but most Internet shortcut files on
> Windows with the invisible .url or .ink extension are empty when trying to
> read with using a text editor or opening them in LiveCode.
>
> In such Windows file's there is a property url:<link> that contains the web
> address. It is visible when opening using the right mouse button (context
> menu) and then selecting the "properties" item. When double-clicking such
> file, the default browser will open and open the web page directed to.
>
> But I want to read this URL property as text directly and use it from
> within LiveCode.
>
> I assume that these Internet shortcuts store the URL information not in the
> file itself, or I just cannot get to this information.
>
> I found one batch file script that promises such a solution. Such batch
> text file can be called through the SHELL() command and will then execute.
> It has the file extension ".bat".
>
> #-- START BATCH SCRIPT
> echo off
> setlocal enableextensions enabledelayedexpansion
> pushd %1
> for %%F in (%1\*.url) do (
> echo %%~dpnxF
> call :findurl "%%~dpnxF"
> )
> popd
> goto end
> :findurl inputfile
> set url=
> for /f "tokens=2 delims==" %%i in ('findstr URL %1') do set url=%%i
> echo %url%
> echo -----
> :end
> #-- END BATCH SCRIPT
>
> Unfortunately, my knowledge of such batch scripts is very limited.
>
> I get error messages when calling the batch file through the shell
> function. Maybe there is someone here who can interpret this script? To me
> it would be sufficient to simply call shell("location of the file and file
> name of the url-file .. shell commands") and receive back the URL property
> as text. Or is there any other way to get to this information?
>
> Since LC is cross-platform, such solution also would be nice to have for
> OSX and Linux?
>
> Regards, Roland
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>


From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 02:51:58 2021
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:51:58 +0100
Subject: Re. Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g_kdcTjhyuBaf7PCZA02apC86PDkHOFEmEr+u3mcbPy=g@mail.gmail.com>

@ Matthias

Windows 10 with "ink" and "url" files:

Thank you very much for the link regarding ".lnk" files. I did not see this
before. I will look into it. I also checked the binary format as published
by Microsoft. I just answered Hakan without having read your suggestion. )
Sorry that I did not read your message before.

Regarding the empty files (maybe they could just not be read in LC for
whatever reason): Unfortunately, I have deleted them all. They had
assembled for years and I extracted their links with the Batch and stored
the links in a database.

Testing with different browsers dragging the Internet links, for the moment
there is no problem reading with such ".url" files. So, the problem may
have be very specific to my system and may not need further attention. If I
still find such file then I will it send to you. No problem.

Thanks to all here for attending
Roland


From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 05:27:34 2021
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:27:34 +0100
Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g-6MJBnc1aExNndhGxuf98Na+Tsgce5sWnQO0_BmJWgwQ@mail.gmail.com>

@ Hagan
@ Matthias

I posted my hack on the forum also mentioning our discussion here:

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35458

Of course, if some one has clean solution to actually read Window's binary
".lnk" file, it would be another lesson to enjoy. Unfortunately, I cannot
do it now because of time constraints. But the solution works (for me).

Roland


From andre at andregarzia.com  Sun Feb 28 07:24:11 2021
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 12:24:11 +0000
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <FE1951F7-3247-4BC8-B396-2953F7824EAF@elloco.com>
References: <b3db7674-f2c7-6a33-e05e-e4648d955945@fourthworld.com>
 <FE1951F7-3247-4BC8-B396-2953F7824EAF@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3jwT=jyj+P8ZRCBn=N7A14+FiP-LLhvVKO0n6Cz1_6HfAJNA@mail.gmail.com>

I think that a consequence of the popularity of S3 REST API was overlooked
by the LC HQ when they designed the AWS library. Many of the AWS APIs were
copied by other competing products so that they'd become a turn-key
replacement for AWS. It is much easier to push your company's backuping
solution if it is compatible to S3 for example. Many FOSS self-hosted
projects created endpoints compatible with AWS for the same reasons.

It should be trivial to add a command to register a custom endpoint. I
think that the whole password protection of that stack is to make sure it
is only available to Indy licensees. I don't mind it being Indy and up
only, but I'd love for those libraries to have their source open so that
people can contribute such small changes. This would free resources from
the mothership and keep those libraries fresh.

Best
A

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 at 20:13, Kee Nethery via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you for the clarification.
>
> Kee Nethery
>
> > On Feb 25, 2021, at 10:06 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?Kee Nethery wrote:
> >
> > > From this conversation am I to assume that if I am planning
> > > on building a project that relies on AWS S3, I?m gonna have
> > > to roll my own connector to it?
> >
> > It seems the opposite: if you need S3 storage, AWS is the only one
> supported by the LC lib included in proprietary editions.
> >
> > You would only need to roll your own if you want S3 from another
> provider, which is the circumstance Tom has which prompted this thread.
> >
> > Monte described the history of the library a couple posts back:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/263537.html
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World Systems
> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia


From tom at makeshyft.com  Sun Feb 28 10:18:05 2021
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 10:18:05 -0500
Subject: S3 Compatible?
In-Reply-To: <CAF3jwT=jyj+P8ZRCBn=N7A14+FiP-LLhvVKO0n6Cz1_6HfAJNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b3db7674-f2c7-6a33-e05e-e4648d955945@fourthworld.com>
 <FE1951F7-3247-4BC8-B396-2953F7824EAF@elloco.com>
 <CAF3jwT=jyj+P8ZRCBn=N7A14+FiP-LLhvVKO0n6Cz1_6HfAJNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLC-afdncb+dHF8MLrYv=yVxRT1ofgvASswYuZfm8NitA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Andre,

Monte mentioned above that he didn't know about it at the time he created
the library,
and I guess no one needed it badly enough to request a feature enhancement
until September 24, 2020
I can't even imagine the number of things a development platform like lc
must keep track of to stay up to date.
I also wonder how many people in the world are truly familiar with the LC's
C++ source code.
2 maybe 3?


On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 7:25 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I think that a consequence of the popularity of S3 REST API was overlooked
> by the LC HQ when they designed the AWS library. Many of the AWS APIs were
> copied by other competing products so that they'd become a turn-key
> replacement for AWS. It is much easier to push your company's backuping
> solution if it is compatible to S3 for example. Many FOSS self-hosted
> projects created endpoints compatible with AWS for the same reasons.
>
> It should be trivial to add a command to register a custom endpoint. I
> think that the whole password protection of that stack is to make sure it
> is only available to Indy licensees. I don't mind it being Indy and up
> only, but I'd love for those libraries to have their source open so that
> people can contribute such small changes. This would free resources from
> the mothership and keep those libraries fresh.
>
> Best
> A
>
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 at 20:13, Kee Nethery via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you for the clarification.
> >
> > Kee Nethery
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 2021, at 10:06 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ?Kee Nethery wrote:
> > >
> > > > From this conversation am I to assume that if I am planning
> > > > on building a project that relies on AWS S3, I?m gonna have
> > > > to roll my own connector to it?
> > >
> > > It seems the opposite: if you need S3 storage, AWS is the only one
> > supported by the LC lib included in proprietary editions.
> > >
> > > You would only need to roll your own if you want S3 from another
> > provider, which is the circumstance Tom has which prompted this thread.
> > >
> > > Monte described the history of the library a couple posts back:
> > >
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/263537.html
> > >
> > > --
> > > Richard Gaskin
> > > Fourth World Systems
> > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> > > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From markclark at mac.com  Sun Feb 28 13:33:53 2021
From: markclark at mac.com (Mark Clark)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 12:33:53 -0600
Subject: S3 API  vs AWS
Message-ID: <FACE678C-19B6-4DC1-8A9B-10FC6E75D615@mac.com>

Since I posted the enhancement request for a non-AWS S3 endpoint, thought I might chime in a bit on S3. I worked with AB and Harsha (founders of Minio) in a past life when they were at Gluster (acquired by RedHat) and I was at a company called Compellent (acquired by DELL). Knowing those two I believed their notion of a developer-centric open source object store was a winning idea. 

Kevin and everyone at LiveCode get a *lot* of people pulling at them for attention. I?m in awe of their ability to do so much with relatively few resources. Back in 2016 they were tremendously busy, which is still true for 2021:)

Currently I use Minio in a production environment and since LiveCode doesn?t natively support it, I wrote a simple server back end to handle client requests that require object. LiveCode is not what we use to build our products, but it sure has come in handy for prototyping our UI and doing IT style apps in the back office. 

In retrospect I should have banged the drums with the whole community and pushed this idea of putting some money behind the request. But those darn day jobs get in the way, sometimes.

Minio + LC = Goodness, even if you have to use shell and mc under the hood:)

Mark

From: Mark Clark <markclark at me.com>
Subject: 500 Dollar Pledge: Livecode plus S3 API (object storage)
Date: May 26, 2016 at 9:33:30 AM CDT
To: Kevin Miller <kevin at livecode.com>

Sorry if this is seemingly off topic to LiveCode, but it does help illustrate cloud storage opportunities for LC with the planned/eventual improved networking. Minio libraries are FOSS drop in replacements for S3 so no issues for LC in paid or open source versions. Files must go to object to overcome limits of RAID and filesystems, so how amazing would it be for LiveCode to include s3 (which for better or worse is now the defacto standard for object storage) native commands for getting and putting data to the cloud? LC is a perfect visual means of tying together various complicated sub-systems to generate a new generation of rich GUI web apps.

https://blog.minio.io/object-storage-in-practice-creating-a-reliable-data-store-9b424a22e8e#.5nyuf9by9 <https://blog.minio.io/object-storage-in-practice-creating-a-reliable-data-store-9b424a22e8e#.5nyuf9by9>

I have been happy to support each campaign along the way and will continue to believe in your vision for LiveCode. But I sometimes wonder if failing to support or at least post a vision for cloud scale data storage for app developers is a bit similar to not putting a network piece into Hypercard. Would you consider a campaign of say 10k to support a set of minio widgets for LiveCode? I would happily pay $500.00 towards such a project if you felt it worthwhile to put forward. 

Minio has three main components: a client and client libraries for accessing objects via S3; a single instance micro server for S3 (how cool if this were placed with LiveCode Server); and an XL version (still under heavy dev) which is a fully distributed and erasure encoded object storage server. 


Respectfully,

Mark Clark

>