From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 10:23:15 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 17:23:15 +0200
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>

OK, OK; let's be direct and to the point:

I want to "rip off" the functionality of this web-page:

http://terpstrakeyboard.com/about/

Click on the "Play It Now!" menu item and follow through . . .

You will end up with a microtonal keyboard that has this functionality:

1. When one performs a mouseDown on each hexagon a tone is played.

2. While the mouse button is held down the tone continues to sound.

3. If the mouse is dragged (while being pressed) from one hexagon to the 
next,
the sound changes from that of the initial hexagon to the new one.

So . . . there would seem to be something "there" that is a bit 
difficult to implement in LiveCode.

I have 2 adjacent hexagons, called "h1" and "h2" containing these 
scripts, respectively:

onmouseDown

 ??? setthebackgroundColorofmetored

endmouseDown

onmouseStillDown

 ??? setthebackgroundColorofmetogreen

endmouseStillDown

onmouseLeave

 ??? setthebackgroundColorofmetowhite

endmouseLeave

---------

onmouseDown

 ??? setthebackgroundColorofmetoblue

endmouseDown

onmouseStillDown

 ??? setthebackgroundColorofmetoyellow

endmouseStillDown

onmouseLeave

 ??? setthebackgroundColorofmetowhite

endmouseLeave

--------

Dragging one's mouse while it is "down" from "h1" to H2" does not turn 
"h2" yellow!

*THIS* is the functionality I am looking for.

Richmond.








On 29.12.18 18:52, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> MouseDown is a message, not a function. You need:
>
> ?if the mouse is down then
> ?? set the...etc.
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 29, 2018 9:07:37 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> This does *NOT* work:
>>
>> on mouseEnter
>> ?? if mouseDown then
>> ????? set the backgroundColor of me to red
>> ?? else
>> ????? set the backgroundColor of me to green
>> ?? end if
>> end mouseEnter
>>
>> on mouseLeave
>> ?? set the backgroundColor of me to white
>> end mouseLeave
>>
>> which is a "right pox"
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 29.12.18 16:45, Richmond wrote:
>>>
>>> This may rank as one of the goofiest questions I've ever asked: Oh,
>>> well, here goes:
>>>
>>> Imagine a mosaic of faux buttons if you will.
>>>
>>> Each of these buttons will play a tone if I drag my mouse into it:
>>>
>>> on mouseEnter
>>>
>>> ? play audioClip "x.aiff"
>>>
>>> end mouseEnter
>>>
>>> All well and good . . .
>>>
>>> BUT, Richmond wants more . . .
>>>
>>> I want to get different results from a simple mouseEnter
>>>
>>> and a mouseEnter while the left-click button is down.
>>>
>>> Richmond.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Jan  1 12:20:49 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 12:20:49 -0500
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0c3f289f-e6e0-4be8-4aaf-c21a591e4000@researchware.com>

You may need to look at LiveCode's drag events since that is the mouse 
action you are trying to address, namely dragging from one hexagon to 
another.

See the dictionary for events like dragStart, dragEnter, dragLeave, 
dragStop, etc.




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 12:28:40 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 19:28:40 +0200
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <0c3f289f-e6e0-4be8-4aaf-c21a591e4000@researchware.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
	<0c3f289f-e6e0-4be8-4aaf-c21a591e4000@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <adf9e629-59f7-db84-b1f4-b7397758b523@gmail.com>

Now there's a thought!

Thanks.

Richmond.

On 1.01.19 19:20, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> You may need to look at LiveCode's drag events since that is the mouse 
> action you are trying to address, namely dragging from one hexagon to 
> another.
>
> See the dictionary for events like dragStart, dragEnter, dragLeave, 
> dragStop, etc.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 12:42:48 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 19:42:48 +0200
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <0c3f289f-e6e0-4be8-4aaf-c21a591e4000@researchware.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
	<0c3f289f-e6e0-4be8-4aaf-c21a591e4000@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <368a9981-2194-1a74-99ba-2546c345010c@gmail.com>

Well, of course, one can mess around with "is within", except that my 
poisonous mind
starts worrying about hexagons when LiveCode seems better at 
understanding rectangles.

Richmond.

On 1.01.19 19:20, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> You may need to look at LiveCode's drag events since that is the mouse 
> action you are trying to address, namely dragging from one hexagon to 
> another.
>
> See the dictionary for events like dragStart, dragEnter, dragLeave, 
> dragStop, etc.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 12:48:59 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 19:48:59 +0200
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <0c3f289f-e6e0-4be8-4aaf-c21a591e4000@researchware.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
	<0c3f289f-e6e0-4be8-4aaf-c21a591e4000@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <093ed91d-afc1-fa54-ba36-aaf3808a5dfe@gmail.com>

With the left mouse button depressed I dragged into the graphic "h3" that
contained this script:

ondragEnter

 ??? setthebackgroundColorofmetogreen

enddragEnter

and *NOTHING* happened.

On 1.01.19 19:20, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> You may need to look at LiveCode's drag events since that is the mouse 
> action you are trying to address, namely dragging from one hexagon to 
> another.
>
> See the dictionary for events like dragStart, dragEnter, dragLeave, 
> dragStop, etc.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 12:51:47 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 19:51:47 +0200
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <093ed91d-afc1-fa54-ba36-aaf3808a5dfe@gmail.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
	<0c3f289f-e6e0-4be8-4aaf-c21a591e4000@researchware.com>
	<093ed91d-afc1-fa54-ba36-aaf3808a5dfe@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3519c6b0-f2d9-5cef-1153-3fcc81adf000@gmail.com>

PRESUMABLY because there was NOT an object being DRAGGED.

*Ru Paul* and All!

I don't want to DRAG an object: all I want to do is drag the mouse into 
the object.

On 1.01.19 19:48, Richmond wrote:
> With the left mouse button depressed I dragged into the graphic "h3" that
> contained this script:
>
> ondragEnter
>
> ??? setthebackgroundColorofmetogreen
>
> enddragEnter
>
> and *NOTHING* happened.
>
> On 1.01.19 19:20, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> You may need to look at LiveCode's drag events since that is the 
>> mouse action you are trying to address, namely dragging from one 
>> hexagon to another.
>>
>> See the dictionary for events like dragStart, dragEnter, dragLeave, 
>> dragStop, etc.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Jan  1 13:00:18 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 13:00:18 -0500
Subject: LiveCode 9.0.2 on Windows unable to build for Mac?!?!?!?
In-Reply-To: <C971A7FA-10D4-406A-BE63-C4A6BFCF90EB@appisle.net>
References: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>
	<6d978a9d-86c7-4dfb-85b2-f3e3594d4857@Spark>
	<C971A7FA-10D4-406A-BE63-C4A6BFCF90EB@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <587ab36e-8e35-63e3-c089-847b13b55cd8@researchware.com>

Monte and Brian,

Thank you both. Here is the very specific details of the change between 
LC901 and LC902 that I am seeing:

Under the Window 10/LiveCode 9.0.1 Business STABLE under the FILE > 
Standalone Application Settings..., in the Copy Files tab, under 
"Non-stack files in the Application",? I have:
Documentation/*
Components/*

These folders are in the same parent folder as the mainstack of the 
project. When I select FILE > Save as Standalone Application... and 
build a Windows and OSX standalones I get a Folder in the build 
destrination called: "HyperRESEARCH" (the name of the Application). In 
that folder I have a "MacOS" folder and a "Windows" folder.

The MacOS folder cotains the OSX app bundle, in this case called 
"HyperRESEARCH.app"

Under Windows 10, in LC9.0.1 Business STABLE, the Components and 
Documentation folders (and all their subfolders and files) are copied to:
HyperRESEARCH.app\Contents\Resources\_MacOS\Components
HyperRESEARCH.app\Contents\Resources\_MacOS\Documentation

i.e. the 2 references folders with all *files* and subfolders in the 
originals copied here.

On Windows 10, in LC9.0.2 Business STABLE, the Components and 
Documentation folders are not handled in the same way.
The FOLDERS and SUFOLDERS, but NO FILES are copied to:
HyperRESEARCH.app\Contents\Resources\_MacOS\Components
HyperRESEARCH.app\Contents\Resources\_MacOS\Documentation

However, the FOLDERS and SUBFOLDERS are also copied to
HyperRESEARCH\MacOSX\HyperRESEARCH.app\Contents\MacOS
i.e.
HyperRESEARCH\MacOSX\HyperRESEARCH.app\Contents\MacOS\Components
HyperRESEARCH\MacOSX\HyperRESEARCH.app\Contents\MacOS\Documentation

AND it is this location that contains the actual FILES!

A change like this is a point maintenance release seems to be a bug?!?

Monte: While I get that the engine may have changed so that it looks 
first in the MacOS folder of the app bundle and then if not found n the 
Resources\_MacOS, the change from 9.0.1 to 9.0.2 still seem like a bug. 
Maybe it is because I don't use the "engine" to find these folders (and 
the files in them), I use the explicit path as in the past there was no 
specialFolderPath to make use of.

If this really is a correct change - back to placing the actual files in 
the FOLDERs in the MacOS with the executable - the opposite of what you 
said that they should be in the Resources/_MacOS folder, I can alter my 
code for it. However, I think this is a Regression in 9.0.2 from 9.0.1. 
If someone can confirm this really is a bug, I will happily file a bug 
report.




From hh at hyperhh.de  Tue Jan  1 13:01:24 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 19:01:24 +0100
Subject: Video-Fun2
Message-ID: <CA2958E9-6158-4471-BA97-76403BE3AE65@hyperhh.de>

Video-Fun2 is a major update of the HTML5 standalone "Video-Fun".
Finally all I wanted works.

This uses only "atomic" canvas2d methods of JavaScript in the
browser, no JS-packages. And, where they are fast enough in the
HTML5 engine, all the well known wonderful LC-techniques:

(US) http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/video-funHTML5-9.0.2hhX.html
(EU) http://hyperhh.de/html5/video-funHTML5-9.0.2hhX.html

The source code is, as usual, free for non-commercial use.
(Sadly, my idea of a developer fund died last year).

Happy New Year 2019!



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 13:07:39 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 20:07:39 +0200
Subject: Video-Fun2
In-Reply-To: <CA2958E9-6158-4471-BA97-76403BE3AE65@hyperhh.de>
References: <CA2958E9-6158-4471-BA97-76403BE3AE65@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <1cdfec9b-8de6-84a7-42ee-305f6996c55c@gmail.com>

Developer funds are hard to get hold of: my Devawriter Kickstarter 
"thing" I ran last year is a shining
example.

If, however, you were to promote an automated bottom-washer
that played Donald Trump's "March on Moscow" you'd get so much money
you would know what to do with it.

Richmond.

On 1.01.19 20:01, hh via use-livecode wrote:
> Video-Fun2 is a major update of the HTML5 standalone "Video-Fun".
> Finally all I wanted works.
>
> This uses only "atomic" canvas2d methods of JavaScript in the
> browser, no JS-packages. And, where they are fast enough in the
> HTML5 engine, all the well known wonderful LC-techniques:
>
> (US) http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/video-funHTML5-9.0.2hhX.html
> (EU) http://hyperhh.de/html5/video-funHTML5-9.0.2hhX.html
>
> The source code is, as usual, free for non-commercial use.
> (Sadly, my idea of a developer fund died last year).
>
> Happy New Year 2019!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 13:18:02 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 20:18:02 +0200
Subject: Video-Fun2
In-Reply-To: <CA2958E9-6158-4471-BA97-76403BE3AE65@hyperhh.de>
References: <CA2958E9-6158-4471-BA97-76403BE3AE65@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <42318f07-00e3-c348-3b4c-b202c81e0c27@gmail.com>

"What you see is an LC-image object"

Um, well, unfortunately NOT on my Mac Mini running WaterFox on MacOS 10.14.2

https://www.waterfoxproject.org/en-US/

Nor, for that matter on safari Technology Preview Release 72

Richmond.

On 1.01.19 20:01, hh via use-livecode wrote:
> Video-Fun2 is a major update of the HTML5 standalone "Video-Fun".
> Finally all I wanted works.
>
> This uses only "atomic" canvas2d methods of JavaScript in the
> browser, no JS-packages. And, where they are fast enough in the
> HTML5 engine, all the well known wonderful LC-techniques:
>
> (US) http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/video-funHTML5-9.0.2hhX.html
> (EU) http://hyperhh.de/html5/video-funHTML5-9.0.2hhX.html
>
> The source code is, as usual, free for non-commercial use.
> (Sadly, my idea of a developer fund died last year).
>
> Happy New Year 2019!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bogdanoff at me.com  Tue Jan  1 14:10:47 2019
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 14:10:47 -0500
Subject: Video-Fun2
In-Reply-To: <42318f07-00e3-c348-3b4c-b202c81e0c27@gmail.com>
References: <CA2958E9-6158-4471-BA97-76403BE3AE65@hyperhh.de>
	<42318f07-00e3-c348-3b4c-b202c81e0c27@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6D30417D-1652-4815-8D95-EC3AEF5AFF4C@me.com>

It looks great!

After awhile (10-15 minutes) it froze. Reloaded the page, then Safari had the message, ?This page is using significant memory?.?

Peter


> On Jan 1, 2019, at 1:18 PM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> "What you see is an LC-image object"
> 
> Um, well, unfortunately NOT on my Mac Mini running WaterFox on MacOS 10.14.2
> 
> https://www.waterfoxproject.org/en-US/
> 
> Nor, for that matter on safari Technology Preview Release 72
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 1.01.19 20:01, hh via use-livecode wrote:
>> Video-Fun2 is a major update of the HTML5 standalone "Video-Fun".
>> Finally all I wanted works.
>> 
>> This uses only "atomic" canvas2d methods of JavaScript in the
>> browser, no JS-packages. And, where they are fast enough in the
>> HTML5 engine, all the well known wonderful LC-techniques:
>> 
>> (US) http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/video-funHTML5-9.0.2hhX.html
>> (EU) http://hyperhh.de/html5/video-funHTML5-9.0.2hhX.html
>> 
>> The source code is, as usual, free for non-commercial use.
>> (Sadly, my idea of a developer fund died last year).
>> 
>> Happy New Year 2019!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Jan  1 15:39:06 2019
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 20:39:06 +0000
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8bba2a0-0988-d357-56a8-62976f7d90a2@tweedly.net>

First I would consider whether you want *exactly* that UI, or whether 
something very similar would do.

If similar is OK, then I would invert the logic of the UI:

 ?- if the mouse (pointer) is over a hexagon, and the mouse is not being 
pressed - play that note, and keep playing it

 ?- if mouse moves into another hex, change note

 ?- when the mouse is pressed - and for as long as it stays pressed - 
play nothing.

That is very easy to do (at least, without testing it :,)? :

each hexagon has handlers that do :

on mouseenter
 ?? -- do whatever it is you do to play a note (??)
end mouseenter

on mouseup
 ?? -- do whatever it is you do to play a note (??)
end mouseup

on mouseleave
 ??? -- stop playing the current note
end mouseleave


(actually, probably easier to do single handlers, which check "the 
target" to determine which hex is being entered/left). Note that whne 
you move form one to another, it's

and the card/group has a handler

on mousedown
 ?? -- stop playing the current note
end mousedown

and that, I think,? should be all you need..


However - I'm not sure that's a very intuitive UI ("release to play"), 
so I'd probably go the extra mile and do the harder one that replicates 
the original UI. And that *is* harder, so I will try it out before I say 
any more about it ...


On 01/01/2019 15:23, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
> OK, OK; let's be direct and to the point:
>
> I want to "rip off" the functionality of this web-page:
>
> http://terpstrakeyboard.com/about/
>
> Click on the "Play It Now!" menu item and follow through . . .
>
> You will end up with a microtonal keyboard that has this functionality:
>
> 1. When one performs a mouseDown on each hexagon a tone is played.
>
> 2. While the mouse button is held down the tone continues to sound.
>
> 3. If the mouse is dragged (while being pressed) from one hexagon to 
> the next,
> the sound changes from that of the initial hexagon to the new one.
>
> So . . . there would seem to be something "there" that is a bit 
> difficult to implement in LiveCode.
>
> I have 2 adjacent hexagons, called "h1" and "h2" containing these 
> scripts, respectively:
>
> ...
>
> Dragging one's mouse while it is "down" from "h1" to H2" does not turn 
> "h2" yellow!
>
> *THIS* is the functionality I am looking for.
>
Right - won\t work because H2 never gets a mouseEnter or mouseDown 
because the mouse was already down when it moved into H2.

I will have a play later tonight and see what I can come up with
Alex.
> Richmond.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29.12.18 18:52, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> MouseDown is a message, not a function. You need:
>>
>> ?if the mouse is down then
>> ?? set the...etc.
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On December 29, 2018 9:07:37 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This does *NOT* work:
>>>
>>> on mouseEnter
>>> ?? if mouseDown then
>>> ????? set the backgroundColor of me to red
>>> ?? else
>>> ????? set the backgroundColor of me to green
>>> ?? end if
>>> end mouseEnter
>>>
>>> on mouseLeave
>>> ?? set the backgroundColor of me to white
>>> end mouseLeave
>>>
>>> which is a "right pox"
>>>
>>> Richmond.
>>>
>>> On 29.12.18 16:45, Richmond wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This may rank as one of the goofiest questions I've ever asked: Oh,
>>>> well, here goes:
>>>>
>>>> Imagine a mosaic of faux buttons if you will.
>>>>
>>>> Each of these buttons will play a tone if I drag my mouse into it:
>>>>
>>>> on mouseEnter
>>>>
>>>> ? play audioClip "x.aiff"
>>>>
>>>> end mouseEnter
>>>>
>>>> All well and good . . .
>>>>
>>>> BUT, Richmond wants more . . .
>>>>
>>>> I want to get different results from a simple mouseEnter
>>>>
>>>> and a mouseEnter while the left-click button is down.
>>>>
>>>> Richmond.
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at hyperhh.de  Tue Jan  1 16:05:27 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 22:05:27 +0100
Subject: Video-Fun2
Message-ID: <8A17BC21-5437-4248-9CF4-9964E98EBDD9@hyperhh.de>

Well, HTML5 standalones have a display filter, just try to find out how
you can set it.

> Richmond wrote:
> "What you see is an LC-image object"
> Um, well, unfortunately NOT on my Mac Mini running WaterFox on MacOS 10.14.2
> https://www.waterfoxproject.org/en-US/
> Nor, for that matter on safari Technology Preview Release 72




From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Jan  1 16:08:06 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 21:08:06 +0000
Subject: Interrupting "Wait"
In-Reply-To: <1c9ad081-6dc2-2b1e-8ef4-cf7c30e661c3@tweedly.net>
References: <50A24DA9-4FC4-442E-A2D3-1ADFB1C70CAC@hindu.org>
	<EC5B8876-F5A4-481B-B9FA-578BB514D806@me.com>
	<B28A12A9-2D79-492D-9D58-1771ACFDA5AF@hindu.org>
	<1c9ad081-6dc2-2b1e-8ef4-cf7c30e661c3@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <74DE5A45-17FE-40EF-A6D5-7E2E919018F3@hindu.org>

This works!

By adding

if sStopRequested then exit repeat

also at the beginning of the repeat, the wait does go to  second screen what we stop the show...

Now. The next trick, get a quote to show in between the photos.


command startNarrative

   # store brand image 
   put the long id of img "homeStoryMainImage" of me into sMainImage
   put path_Assets()& "img/siva-darshan/who-is-siva_1200x800.jpg" into sDefaultImage

   put FALSE into sStopRequested

   # from model_Narrative:

   repeat for each line pPath in sPhotoList
      if sStopRequested then exit repeat
      dispatch "loadNewImage" to me with pPath
      repeat 2 times
         if sStopRequested then exit repeat
         wait 1 second with messages
      end repeat -- for the number of seconds
   end repeat
   setDefaultImage
end startNarrative

Brahmanathaswami
 

?On 12/31/18, 5:21 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Alex Tweedly via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    In essence, you want something like the following:
    
    (this assumes a capital Q typed to the card will quit the display. It 
    could easily be changed to clicking a button - so long as the mouseUp 
    handler would set the script-local when appropriate).
    
    local sStopRequested
    
    command playShow
       local tPhotos
       put FALSE into sStopRequested
       put randomPhotoList() into tPhotos
       repeat for each line L in tPhotos
          dispatch "loadImage" with L
          wait 5 seconds with messages
          if sStopRequested then exit repeat
       end repeat
       dispatch "loadImage" with "defaultMainImage"
    end playShow
    
    


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jan  1 16:41:03 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 15:41:03 -0600
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c0bf83ea-6c9b-b88e-ca7a-bba26e312aa1@hyperactivesw.com>

On 1/1/19 9:23 AM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:

> 1. When one performs a mouseDown on each hexagon a tone is played.
> 
> 2. While the mouse button is held down the tone continues to sound.
> 
> 3. If the mouse is dragged (while being pressed) from one hexagon to the 
> next,
> the sound changes from that of the initial hexagon to the new one.
> 
> So . . . there would seem to be something "there" that is a bit 
> difficult to implement in LiveCode.

Is this what you want? It requires that each hexagon has a custom 
property named "cColor" that contains an RGB value or a colorname. The 
script goes into a group or card, and manages all hexagons.

local sColor
local sDragging

on mouseDown
   put the cColor of the mouseControl into sColor
   set the backcolor of the mouseControl to sColor
   put true into sDragging
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
   put the cColor of the mouseControl into sColor
   put false into sDragging
end mouseUp

on mouseMove x,y
   if sDragging then
     get x,y -- force to a variable
     set the backcolor of controlAtLoc(it) to sColor
   end if
end mouseMove

If the card has more objects than just the hexagons, you'll want to test 
the mouseControl so nothing happens with other objects. Or alternatly, 
group only the hexagons and put the script into the group.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From hh at hyperhh.de  Tue Jan  1 16:45:22 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 22:45:22 +0100
Subject: Video-Fun2
Message-ID: <9220078E-EEF3-4F70-935E-718720B2E2DF@hyperhh.de>

> Peter B. wrote:
> It looks great!
> After awhile (10-15 minutes) it froze. Reloaded the page, then Safari had the
> message, ?This page is using significant memory?.?

Yes, I had this too. It's probably a caching problem of Safari. They do a lot of
caching, that's why they are the fastest browser with our LC-standalones. Firefox
complains with HTML5 standalones about the memory usage already when loading it.

On the other hand, all that is done every 33 millisecs (while a video is playing):

1. One frame is taken from the video and drawn into an offset canvas.
2. (Optional) The imageData of that canvas is manipulated with an image filter.
3. The optionally manipulated imageData is drawn into a second offset canvas.
4. The imageData of that second canvas is base64Encoded and sent to the standalone.
5. The standalone displays the base64Decoded imagedata in an (rotated) image object.

There is one remedy: If the time per frame goes in average over 66 ms then one
could zoom out the image (slider "zoom").

There would be less stress for your CPU/GPU if we would omit steps 4 and 5, but
then we have only the controls in LiveCode and we could also use a JavaScript
package only. As soon as there is one that can also do what LiveCode can do ...





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jan  1 16:48:19 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 15:48:19 -0600
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <c0bf83ea-6c9b-b88e-ca7a-bba26e312aa1@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
	<c0bf83ea-6c9b-b88e-ca7a-bba26e312aa1@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2e454f95-06a2-8eb4-4490-4c39c34fb1bc@hyperactivesw.com>

Correction: you need to include more ways to turn off the dragging control:

local sColor
local sDragging

on mouseDown
   put the cColor of the mouseControl into sColor
   set the backcolor of the mouseControl to sColor
   put true into sDragging
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
   put the cColor of the mouseControl into sColor
   put false into sDragging
end mouseUp

on mouseMove x,y
   if sDragging then
     get x,y -- force to variable
     set the backcolor of controlAtLoc(it) to sColor
   end if
end mouseMove

on mouseRelease
   put false into sDragging
end mouseRelease

on mouseLeave
   put false into sDragging
end mouseLeave

On 1/1/19 3:41 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> On 1/1/19 9:23 AM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> 1. When one performs a mouseDown on each hexagon a tone is played.
>>
>> 2. While the mouse button is held down the tone continues to sound.
>>
>> 3. If the mouse is dragged (while being pressed) from one hexagon to 
>> the next,
>> the sound changes from that of the initial hexagon to the new one.
>>
>> So . . . there would seem to be something "there" that is a bit 
>> difficult to implement in LiveCode.
> 
> Is this what you want? It requires that each hexagon has a custom 
> property named "cColor" that contains an RGB value or a colorname. The 
> script goes into a group or card, and manages all hexagons.
> 
> local sColor
> local sDragging
> 
> on mouseDown
>  ? put the cColor of the mouseControl into sColor
>  ? set the backcolor of the mouseControl to sColor
>  ? put true into sDragging
> end mouseDown
> 
> on mouseUp
>  ? put the cColor of the mouseControl into sColor
>  ? put false into sDragging
> end mouseUp
> 
> on mouseMove x,y
>  ? if sDragging then
>  ??? get x,y -- force to a variable
>  ??? set the backcolor of controlAtLoc(it) to sColor
>  ? end if
> end mouseMove
> 
> If the card has more objects than just the hexagons, you'll want to test 
> the mouseControl so nothing happens with other objects. Or alternatly, 
> group only the hexagons and put the script into the group.
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From monte at appisle.net  Tue Jan  1 17:54:01 2019
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 09:54:01 +1100
Subject: LiveCode 9.0.2 on Windows unable to build for Mac?!?!?!?
In-Reply-To: <587ab36e-8e35-63e3-c089-847b13b55cd8@researchware.com>
References: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>
	<6d978a9d-86c7-4dfb-85b2-f3e3594d4857@Spark>
	<C971A7FA-10D4-406A-BE63-C4A6BFCF90EB@appisle.net>
	<587ab36e-8e35-63e3-c089-847b13b55cd8@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <714ED6F9-1177-48E9-9396-A14BA298803A@appisle.net>



> On 2 Jan 2019, at 5:00 am, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> However, I think this is a Regression in 9.0.2 from 9.0.1.

It certainly sounds like a regression

> If someone can confirm this really is a bug, I will happily file a bug report.

My suggestion is if you can replicate what you are seeing with a simple stack then file a bug report and let Panos confirm.

Cheers

Monte

From paul at researchware.com  Tue Jan  1 18:04:05 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 18:04:05 -0500
Subject: LiveCode 9.0.2 on Windows unable to build for Mac?!?!?!?
In-Reply-To: <714ED6F9-1177-48E9-9396-A14BA298803A@appisle.net>
References: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>
	<6d978a9d-86c7-4dfb-85b2-f3e3594d4857@Spark>
	<C971A7FA-10D4-406A-BE63-C4A6BFCF90EB@appisle.net>
	<587ab36e-8e35-63e3-c089-847b13b55cd8@researchware.com>
	<714ED6F9-1177-48E9-9396-A14BA298803A@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <6ffdfd15-4b32-bc87-c189-155ed3c734f0@researchware.com>

On 1/1/2019 5:54 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> On 2 Jan 2019, at 5:00 am, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> However, I think this is a Regression in 9.0.2 from 9.0.1.
> It certainly sounds like a regression
>
>> If someone can confirm this really is a bug, I will happily file a bug report.
> My suggestion is if you can replicate what you are seeing with a simple stack then file a bug report and let Panos confirm.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte


Okay, I can do that. Its very straight forward. I'll submit it tomorrow 
during my business day. Thanks for the tips and help over the holiday.




From bogdanoff at me.com  Tue Jan  1 21:24:24 2019
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 21:24:24 -0500
Subject: Signing macOS application
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG9L=9Uxm0prs6a02mXjmmRS7TsLsQeg1bqXrdh=qOtNaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5a0c0f05-979e-7ffa-0722-b67dfb36ee13@sonic.net>
	<264cf109-ba0d-cf2c-3560-c3b41e7fc34e@fourthworld.com>
	<4EAC7BE1-5A4B-439A-8551-D6F8349191D5@me.com>
	<CAHg3tG9L=9Uxm0prs6a02mXjmmRS7TsLsQeg1bqXrdh=qOtNaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1791A2C4-9454-4EAC-AA76-432F7C4F7B0D@me.com>

Trevor,

Thanks for your response and for the work you are doing with Levure. I?m very attracted to its functionality for me--structuring and especially providing for updating my application--but haven?t had time to work with it more yet.

I tried the script you suggested, and when I processed the application package (desktop-only app created in LC 8.1.9) I got the error:
	codesign process failed: /Users/*path to the app*/MITA.app/Contents/MacOS/MITA: code object is not signed at all [that would be the executable]
	In subcomponent: /Users/*path to the app*/MITA.app/Contents/MacOS/MUSITA



I followed Knapp?s suggestion and tried using AppWrapper 3, which gave specific critical errors (among other several apparently non-critical errors):
	Missing ?/usr/local/lib/revsecurity.dylib
	Bundle identifier ?com.artsinteractive? contains a blank segment


When I look at the rev security.dylib file in Terminal I see:
-bash: /Users/*path to the app*/MITA.app/Contents/MacOS/revsecurity.dylib: cannot execute binary file
logout

+++++++++++++

I then saw a reference somewhere to LC 8.1.10, and so I made a new runtime in that 8.1.10 version.

Then:
Levure script ? NO errors
App Wrapper 3 ? only significant error apparently: "website deployment?both missing private key"
(In Terminal, for revsecurity.dylib, the above ?cannot execute binary file? is also shown)

I?m providing the DMG as a download. Is this MISSING KEY an issue? And is there a way to reset my Gatekeeper to test installing the program on my computer?

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive




> On Dec 29, 2018, at 7:01 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 2:20 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I have these IDs:
>>        Developer ID Installer
>>        Developer ID Application
>> 
>> DropDMG shows in its preferences the 'Developer ID Application? that is
>> used to sign the installer. That should be used and not 'Developer ID
>> Installer??
>> 
>> 
>> Anyone have any guidance on this?
> 
> 
> You do need to sign your app using your ?Developer ID Installer? profile.
> There is a script only stack I posted a while ago on gist.github.com that
> will sign an app. Here is the url:
> 
> https://gist.github.com/trevordevore/3e91724c4573690b691510d2e2dcd2a7
> 
> Just save the gist to a file with a .livecodescript extension and open it
> in the IDE.
> 
> As for DropDMG it has the correct certificate selected. DMGs are not really
> installers but the DMG does need to be signed to appease GateKeeper.
> 
> As Was already mentioned, the Levure packager will take care of signing
> your apps for you. It will sign apps you distribute yourself, sign and
> prepare an app for upload to the Mac App Store, and sign Mac App Store
> development versions for testing. It is quite handy.
> 
> Of course if you are already trying to sign your app for distribution then
> you aren?t at a point where you want to modify your app to use a new
> framework. But something to consider for the future.
> 
>> 
> And this all doesn?t have anything to do with Notarization? That?s another
>> step for the future?
> 
> 
> No it does not.
> 
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From alex at harryscollar.com  Wed Jan  2 02:24:56 2019
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 17:24:56 +1000
Subject: Mixed styles in mobile native field?
In-Reply-To: <55394D00.5020600@fourthworld.com>
References: <553949B2.5000804@hyperactivesw.com>
	<55394D00.5020600@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <c213d984-aa87-5dca-2d79-b101ed2c80a8@harryscollar.com>

Yes, this would be useful.

Even if it's just adding bold, italics or underline to a selection, like 
iOS email.

Entering longer text paragraphs on mobile is awkward enough and looks 
like we can't access the clipboard on mobile with a LC field.

Having users enter markdown or basic html wouldn't be ideal.

Currently, looking at slatejs in a browser instance as a solution but 
open to suggestions.

btw what ever happened to Curry's fieldtrip?

regards
alex

On 24/4/15 5:50 am, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Jacque wrote:
> > On 4/23/2015 2:01 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >> I see that we can set the font, size, color, etc for a mobile field,
> >> but can we get/set styled text via htmlText or some other means?
> >>
> >> If not, anyone know if there's a request for that in the RQCC?
> >>
> >
> > I don't think so, but if this is just for display, use a regular LC
> > field and lay a native scroller over it. Do your users need to create
> > styled text?
>
> Yes.? I've seen very few apps that support editable styled text, but 
> sometimes it's useful.
>




From paul at livecode.org  Wed Jan  2 03:17:00 2019
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 00:17:00 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <EB376CA3-2FBC-43F4-A44C-05203B040529@derbrill.de>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<EB376CA3-2FBC-43F4-A44C-05203B040529@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <B01FC296-44D2-4310-96EC-8F13D5CA10B3@livecode.org>

Malte,

I think the info you were probably looking for is buried within the dictionary entry for the ?lockScreen? Property, maybe this should be referenced a little better in the dictionary entries for ?lock screen? and ?unlock screen?, see below:

LiveCode keeps count of how many times the screen has been locked. You must balance each unlock with a lock; if you lock the screen twice and then unlock it once, the screen remains locked. For example, the following pair of handlers draws everything while the display is still locked:

on mouseUp
    lock screen    -- first lock
    drawStuff      -- gets locked again and unlocked in drawStuff
    show image "Sprite"
    unlock screen  -- now unlocked - 2 locks balanced by 2 unlocks
end mouseUp

on drawStuff
    lock screen    -- screen now locked twice
    show field "Notify"
    unlock screen  -- not unlocked yet - locked twice, unlocked once
end drawStuff

Paul

> On Dec 30, 2018, at 13:55, Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey Mark,
> 
> At least it is behaviour that changed between engine releases. :-)
> Thinking of a counter here is a good way to describe the behaviour, however, it is not what is written in the dictionary.
> 
> 
> "unlock screen
> 
> Sets the lockScreen property to false, updating the screen and displaying any changes made since the screen was locked.?
> 
> If unlock screen sets a property, the expectation would be to take effect as soon as one unlock screen is issued, as a property can only have one state. Nesting is not described in the dictionary. Not that I can not live with the change, that is not my point 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Jan  2 05:14:14 2019
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:14:14 +0000
Subject: MouseDown on Enter
In-Reply-To: <e8bba2a0-0988-d357-56a8-62976f7d90a2@tweedly.net>
References: <9C6DB43E-2A55-46CB-A836-16965861A28D@hyperhh.de>
	<4999eee0-a8c6-a196-f72f-44dbaae138dc@gmail.com>
	<9c4080e7-be62-4715-b67e-b01232e38d4f@gmail.com>
	<167fae13f08.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<611d90c6-8108-b9ba-b7cf-02d0731c6784@gmail.com>
	<e8bba2a0-0988-d357-56a8-62976f7d90a2@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <9dc5d08f-9615-d7c6-086b-0ddee50781c1@tweedly.net>

On 01/01/2019 20:39, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

> However - I'm not sure that's a very intuitive UI ("release to play"), 
> so I'd probably go the extra mile and do the harder one that 
> replicates the original UI. And that *is* harder, so I will try it out 
> before I say any more about it ...
>
OK, here's a simple script that does what (I think) you want.

NB - I decided to let Malte do the hard work and used AnimationEngine to 
check whether the mouse was within each hexagon; since Malte very 
generously put AE into the public domain, I see no reason to struggle 
through the maths again :-)

The following script goes into the card script; you MUST also put a copy 
of the mouseStillDown handler into each hexagon's script. (Note there is 
no actual dependence on them being hexagons).

> -- card script for hexagons
> on mouseDown
> ?? setCurrentHex
> end mouseDown
>
> on mouseUp
> ?? setCurrentHex
> end mouseUp
>
> on mouseRelease
> ? setCurrentHex
> end mouseRelease
>
> on mouseStillDown pButtonNumber
> ? setcurrentHex
> end mouseStillDown
>
> command setcurrentHex
> ?? local temp, tCtl, txy, x, y
> ?? put the mouseLoc into txy
> ?? set the itemdel to comma
> ?? put item 1 of tXY into x
> ?? put item 2 of txy into y
> ?? repeat with i = 1 to 2
> ????? put the points of grc ("P"&i) into temp
> ????? if? pointInPoly(x,y,temp) then
> ???????? put i && the millisecs &CR after msg
> ???????? exit repeat
> ????? end if
> ?? end repeat
> end setcurrentHex

btw - you can eliminate the mouseDown, mouseUp and mouseRelease 
handlers, if you can accept the very short delay until mouseStillDown 
kicks in.

Alex.



From andre at andregarzia.com  Wed Jan  2 06:24:39 2019
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 11:24:39 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3jwT=VrY7sxubvQVS0UJKNv_PbozN9anc_905BDQxx-K6NOg@mail.gmail.com>

That loop is briliant. I am tempted to place it into a command called
"unlockScreenForReal"

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 16:38 dunbarxx via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Not sure if this is still relevant in LC, but in HC, lock screen commands
> were queued. So the fix, so that one did not have to count the number of
> locks through perhaps several handlers, was:
>
> repeat until the lockScreen is false
>   unlock screen
> end repeat
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From andre at andregarzia.com  Wed Jan  2 06:24:39 2019
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 11:24:39 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3jwT=VrY7sxubvQVS0UJKNv_PbozN9anc_905BDQxx-K6NOg@mail.gmail.com>

That loop is briliant. I am tempted to place it into a command called
"unlockScreenForReal"

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 16:38 dunbarxx via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Not sure if this is still relevant in LC, but in HC, lock screen commands
> were queued. So the fix, so that one did not have to count the number of
> locks through perhaps several handlers, was:
>
> repeat until the lockScreen is false
>   unlock screen
> end repeat
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From andre at andregarzia.com  Wed Jan  2 06:34:40 2019
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 11:34:40 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <A9721448-A633-431B-9AD4-37F0F7963689@iotecdigital.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<baf1b502-c3f5-ef28-2145-6ebe23ca297c@andregarzia.com>
	<A9721448-A633-431B-9AD4-37F0F7963689@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3jwTkkbS8_AyvU-sSq0n6S2efkUhe=-htizanBfCs8yAX_Rg@mail.gmail.com>

Bob,

Yes but it is not as ergonomic. Let me tell an example from a different
platform. I was working in WebStorm IDE in a JavaScript project. I was
refactoring a ton of it.

One of the functions worked better with a different parameter order than
what I originally used. I could select the function declaration, use the
refactor contextual menu, use "change signature" and alter the param order.
The IDE then made sure that all code that called that function was changed
to support the new order automatically.

There was a piece of code inside a function that was useful elsewhere.
Click refactor, select "extract to new function", fill the new function
name. It creates a new function and place a call to that function in the
original place where it was.

These are just two examples. Those refactor tools go much deeper than that.
It makes it easy and even fun to rework your code.

It would be hard to have the same power in LC because LC is more dynamic
than JS in terms of scope and what is available. JS modern IDEs maintain an
AST in memory for your software so that when you refactor, they can locate
and fix the side effects of your changes. It is more powerful and flexible
than text replacements because the IDEs actually understand the code
through having their own parser and stuff.

Buuuuuut some of it could be done in LC with simple text replacement based
tools.

Is there a way to "safely" add to LC contextual menu in the script editor?

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 17:33 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Find/Replace works great. I've done it a few times, so long as the thing
> you are finding has a unique name that cannot be a part of any other bit of
> code, you should be fine. Backup your stack of course before doing
> something so drastic.
>
> A while ago, the LC dev team optimized the search engine so that it is
> orders of magnitude faster.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 2018, at 11:57 , Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Malte,
> >
> > So happy that you're back here my friend. I too spent some time away.
> >
> > So, refactoring and constantly trying to erase mistakes of my past
> coding self are a constant here. I wish we had better refactoring tools so
> that we could rename a handler and all code that called that handler was
> fixed, or stuff such as rename variable...
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > andre
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Wed Jan  2 07:11:15 2019
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 12:11:15 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CAF3jwTkkbS8_AyvU-sSq0n6S2efkUhe=-htizanBfCs8yAX_Rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<baf1b502-c3f5-ef28-2145-6ebe23ca297c@andregarzia.com>
	<A9721448-A633-431B-9AD4-37F0F7963689@iotecdigital.com>
	<CAF3jwTkkbS8_AyvU-sSq0n6S2efkUhe=-htizanBfCs8yAX_Rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1hrMzG8Nn-610bDxCyjm76obi64ZR+ZOa_TV6uMwCrykA@mail.gmail.com>

> Is there a way to "safely" add to LC contextual menu in the script editor?

Yes! It is in a script-only stack behavior of the editor field:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Toolset/palettes/script%20editor/behaviors/revseeditorbehavior.livecodescript#L1024

There is also the script editor's menu bar code in a script only stack:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Toolset/palettes/script%20editor/behaviors/revsemenubarbehavior.livecodescript

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 11:34 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Yes but it is not as ergonomic. Let me tell an example from a different
> platform. I was working in WebStorm IDE in a JavaScript project. I was
> refactoring a ton of it.
>
> One of the functions worked better with a different parameter order than
> what I originally used. I could select the function declaration, use the
> refactor contextual menu, use "change signature" and alter the param order.
> The IDE then made sure that all code that called that function was changed
> to support the new order automatically.
>
> There was a piece of code inside a function that was useful elsewhere.
> Click refactor, select "extract to new function", fill the new function
> name. It creates a new function and place a call to that function in the
> original place where it was.
>
> These are just two examples. Those refactor tools go much deeper than that.
> It makes it easy and even fun to rework your code.
>
> It would be hard to have the same power in LC because LC is more dynamic
> than JS in terms of scope and what is available. JS modern IDEs maintain an
> AST in memory for your software so that when you refactor, they can locate
> and fix the side effects of your changes. It is more powerful and flexible
> than text replacements because the IDEs actually understand the code
> through having their own parser and stuff.
>
> Buuuuuut some of it could be done in LC with simple text replacement based
> tools.
>
> Is there a way to "safely" add to LC contextual menu in the script editor?
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 17:33 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
> > Find/Replace works great. I've done it a few times, so long as the thing
> > you are finding has a unique name that cannot be a part of any other bit
> of
> > code, you should be fine. Backup your stack of course before doing
> > something so drastic.
> >
> > A while ago, the LC dev team optimized the search engine so that it is
> > orders of magnitude faster.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > > On Dec 30, 2018, at 11:57 , Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Malte,
> > >
> > > So happy that you're back here my friend. I too spent some time away.
> > >
> > > So, refactoring and constantly trying to erase mistakes of my past
> > coding self are a constant here. I wish we had better refactoring tools
> so
> > that we could rename a handler and all code that called that handler was
> > fixed, or stuff such as rename variable...
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > andre
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan  2 10:59:49 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 15:59:49 +0000
Subject: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <369BCAF8-143E-4364-B4F6-3A7579529E5D@iotecdigital.com>

I don't mean to sound flippant, but what is the question?

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2018, at 14:38 , William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> I?m trying to implement a structure where I can simply add script only stacks that seamlessly add capability to my app. To do this, I have all of the ?feature? stacks in a given folder, and when I initialize the app, I start using all of the ?feature? stacks. Then I want to initialize all of them, so I send a message that gets passed in each ?feature? stack.
> 
> I do, in each ?feature? stack:
> on pollActions
> 
> 	put the short name of the current stack into myAction
> 
> 	dispatch "actionsList" to cd "Opening" of stack "CP_Main" with myAction
> 
> 	pass pollActions
> 
> end pollActions


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan  2 11:01:37 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:01:37 +0000
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <288AB12F-B095-4E1A-A9AF-8CE0C7B3433E@iotecdigital.com>

And I replied before checking all my other emails. Seriously, at some point we need to develop a list system where emails remain threaded. I have over 40 from this list this morning, and reading through every one, then trying to go back and respond is a little more brainwork than I am used to before my 3rd cup of coffee. :-)

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2018, at 14:48 , William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> Sorry, I accidentally sent the email before finishing it. Here?s the complete message.
> But perhaps I?ve solved it. I only need to put the name of the ?feature? stack in the pollActions handler. Anyway, I still have my question.
> 
> I?m trying to implement a structure where I can simply add script only stacks that seamlessly add capability to my app. To do this, I have all of the ?feature? stacks in a given folder, and when I initialize the app, I start using all of the ?feature? stacks. Then I want to initialize all of them, so I send a message that gets passed in each ?feature? stack.
> 
> I do, in each ?feature? stack (which doesn?t give me the answer I want):
> 
> on pollActions
> 	put the short name of the current stack into myAction  (I want the name of the stack that contains this script)
> 	dispatch "actionsList" to cd "Opening" of stack "CP_Main" with myAction
> 	pass pollActions
> end pollActions
> 
> 
> In the main stack, I have:
> 
> local actionsList
> 
> on actionsList tList
> 	put tList&cr after actionsList
> end actionsList
> 
> 
> 
> My question:
> How do I get the name of the script only stack that holds the ?Feature? code? The above code gives me the name of the main stack, which is not useful for my purposes.
> 
> Best,
> Bill


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan  2 11:03:19 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:03:19 +0000
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91E627CE-DE81-4101-A80B-948A21BC6033@iotecdigital.com>

Doesn't "the filename of me" work? 

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2018, at 14:48 , William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> My question:
> How do I get the name of the script only stack that holds the ?Feature? code? The above code gives me the name of the main stack, which is not useful for my purposes.
> 
> Best,
> Bill


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan  2 11:05:03 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:05:03 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqdDX27G9OQLiCAwq3GPGP73NaPy=3cajef1w4aJgtvtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<baf1b502-c3f5-ef28-2145-6ebe23ca297c@andregarzia.com>
	<CAKCLKtqdDX27G9OQLiCAwq3GPGP73NaPy=3cajef1w4aJgtvtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A36EB293-B8C5-45E8-B909-9374CD1F6C1E@iotecdigital.com>

What if you accidentally use the wrong name reference, then want to change it? 

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2018, at 10:38 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I wish we had better refactoring tools
>> so that we could rename a handler and all code that called that handler
>> was fixed, or stuff such as rename variable...
>> 
> 
> One of the reasons I like experimenting with different environments is to
> see what advantages they have. One advantage that FileMaker Pro has had for
> 25 years, is that all references to tables, fields, and layouts, are based
> on underlying unique IDs. Meaning that if you rename something, the
> underlying reference ID doesn't change, and anywhere the reference occurs,
> the name change is reflected automatically. Obviously this would require
> significant effort to work in any text-file-based system, but it has always
> amazed me that I have never seen this feature replicated elsewhere.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan  2 11:07:30 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:07:30 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <168062e9658.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<79D6F4B0-ED11-4606-BBD6-13BCB41D1C80@iotecdigital.com>
	<168062e9658.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C073C5BF-1881-44BA-8B90-18DE36A86E78@iotecdigital.com>

put revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") into tDBID

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2018, at 13:32 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm generally deficient when it comes to databases but curious how one creates a memory based one. Is there a trick, and does it work with others besides sql?
> 
> This is probably a newbie question.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 31, 2018 11:31:15 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan  2 11:07:50 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:07:50 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <168062e9658.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<79D6F4B0-ED11-4606-BBD6-13BCB41D1C80@iotecdigital.com>
	<168062e9658.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <DF213724-8EAF-47DD-AC69-E2E47122A893@iotecdigital.com>

only sqLite. 

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2018, at 13:32 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm generally deficient when it comes to databases but curious how one creates a memory based one. Is there a trick, and does it work with others besides sql?
> 
> This is probably a newbie question.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 31, 2018 11:31:15 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan  2 11:14:55 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:14:55 +0000
Subject: Video-Fun2
In-Reply-To: <1cdfec9b-8de6-84a7-42ee-305f6996c55c@gmail.com>
References: <CA2958E9-6158-4471-BA97-76403BE3AE65@hyperhh.de>
	<1cdfec9b-8de6-84a7-42ee-305f6996c55c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FFF1612-1181-4A12-A586-79B2087844F0@iotecdigital.com>

CHEESE!

Bob S


> On Jan 1, 2019, at 10:07 , Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If, however, you were to promote an automated bottom-washer
> that played Donald Trump's "March on Moscow" you'd get so much money
> you would know what to do with it.
> 
> Richmond.




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jan  2 11:22:10 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2019 10:22:10 -0600
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CAF3jwT=VrY7sxubvQVS0UJKNv_PbozN9anc_905BDQxx-K6NOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAF3jwT=VrY7sxubvQVS0UJKNv_PbozN9anc_905BDQxx-K6NOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1680f5f4b50.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I first saw this loop in a script by Brett Sher, who called it 
"unlockReally", so you're close. :)
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 2, 2019 5:26:09 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That loop is briliant. I am tempted to place it into a command called
> "unlockScreenForReal"
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 16:38 dunbarxx via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> Not sure if this is still relevant in LC, but in HC, lock screen commands
>> were queued. So the fix, so that one did not have to count the number of
>> locks through perhaps several handlers, was:
>>
>> repeat until the lockScreen is false
>> unlock screen
>> end repeat
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jan  2 11:32:49 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2019 10:32:49 -0600
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CAF3jwT=VrY7sxubvQVS0UJKNv_PbozN9anc_905BDQxx-K6NOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAF3jwT=VrY7sxubvQVS0UJKNv_PbozN9anc_905BDQxx-K6NOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1680f690b68.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I first saw this loop in a script by Brett Sher, who called it
"unlockReally", so you're close. :)

(I accidentally put this response in the wrong thread at first where it 
doesn't make any sense, sorry about that.)
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 2, 2019 5:26:11 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That loop is briliant. I am tempted to place it into a command called
> "unlockScreenForReal"
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 16:38 dunbarxx via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> Not sure if this is still relevant in LC, but in HC, lock screen commands
>> were queued. So the fix, so that one did not have to count the number of
>> locks through perhaps several handlers, was:
>>
>> repeat until the lockScreen is false
>> unlock screen
>> end repeat
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Wed Jan  2 11:35:24 2019
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 08:35:24 -0800
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <91E627CE-DE81-4101-A80B-948A21BC6033@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
	<91E627CE-DE81-4101-A80B-948A21BC6033@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F5A1F354-74F4-4C2C-A68F-A4AA651F5D75@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Bob,
Thanks for the response. You are probably right, the filename of me should work. I don?t know whether it?s old age or not, but several times I have worked on a problem until I felt I had exhausted my ideas, posted a question to this list, then a solution immediately came to mind. If this happens, I will post an update with apologies. 

In the case you responded to, I was trying to find the name of the script only stack that contained the currently running handler. 

 Put me into thisStack  ?works fine
the short name of this stack ?wrong, gives the name of the calling stack, in my case, anyway.
put the short name of the target ?not it

?The target? is great for determining the control that initiated the script, but it does lose its original value when a ?send in time? command is given, like commonly done during an animation.

Anyway, Bob, thanks for your response. 

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jan 2, 2019, at 8:03 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Doesn't "the filename of me" work? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Dec 31, 2018, at 14:48 , William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> My question:
>> How do I get the name of the script only stack that holds the ?Feature? code? The above code gives me the name of the main stack, which is not useful for my purposes.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Wed Jan  2 12:12:18 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 12:12:18 -0500
Subject: LiveCode 9.0.2 on Windows unable to build for Mac?!?!?!?
In-Reply-To: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>
References: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <1e208558-eecd-8826-f5bd-82198fc04291@researchware.com>

Bug report submitted to LiveCode: 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21772



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan  2 14:34:52 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 19:34:52 +0000
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <F5A1F354-74F4-4C2C-A68F-A4AA651F5D75@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
	<91E627CE-DE81-4101-A80B-948A21BC6033@iotecdigital.com>
	<F5A1F354-74F4-4C2C-A68F-A4AA651F5D75@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <479ABBA3-B0A7-49E5-9760-22D6C94BE0CB@iotecdigital.com>

Ah yes then, me refers to the object the script belongs to. With behaviors, me refers to the *instance* of the script which is "owned" by the object being interacted with. "this me" refers to the actual behavior script. What you want is "this me". 

Bob S


> On Jan 2, 2019, at 08:35 , prothero--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> Thanks for the response. You are probably right, the filename of me should work. I don?t know whether it?s old age or not, but several times I have worked on a problem until I felt I had exhausted my ideas, posted a question to this list, then a solution immediately came to mind. If this happens, I will post an update with apologies. 
> 
> In the case you responded to, I was trying to find the name of the script only stack that contained the currently running handler. 
> 
> Put me into thisStack  ?works fine
> the short name of this stack ?wrong, gives the name of the calling stack, in my case, anyway.
> put the short name of the target ?not it
> 
> ?The target? is great for determining the control that initiated the script, but it does lose its original value when a ?send in time? command is given, like commonly done during an animation.
> 
> Anyway, Bob, thanks for your response. 
> 
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed Jan  2 14:42:06 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:42:06 -0500
Subject: Livecode Server GoDaddy
In-Reply-To: <1e208558-eecd-8826-f5bd-82198fc04291@researchware.com>
References: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>
	<1e208558-eecd-8826-f5bd-82198fc04291@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <003c01d4a2d3$41119ee0$c334dca0$@net>

I keep getting 500 errors. I changed the htacces file to point .lc files to
the livecode server executable. Log files have no useful info. The error log
has nothing.
Has anyone gotten LC Server working on GoDaddy shared hosting?

Thanks

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net




From keith.clarke at me.com  Wed Jan  2 14:48:11 2019
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 19:48:11 +0000
Subject: Livecode Server GoDaddy
In-Reply-To: <003c01d4a2d3$41119ee0$c334dca0$@net>
References: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>
	<1e208558-eecd-8826-f5bd-82198fc04291@researchware.com>
	<003c01d4a2d3$41119ee0$c334dca0$@net>
Message-ID: <6F6E56B5-971D-4B1E-AF0B-2760394F1953@me.com>

Ralph, I gave up on getting LCS running on a GoDaddy VPS back in the summer as it was too old at CentOS 6 with dependencies on glibc failing - I was getting 500 errors IIRC.

Good luck!

Keith

> On 2 Jan 2019, at 19:42, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I keep getting 500 errors. I changed the htacces file to point .lc files to
> the livecode server executable. Log files have no useful info. The error log
> has nothing.
> Has anyone gotten LC Server working on GoDaddy shared hosting?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed Jan  2 15:24:14 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 15:24:14 -0500
Subject: Livecode Server GoDaddy
In-Reply-To: <6F6E56B5-971D-4B1E-AF0B-2760394F1953@me.com>
References: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>	<1e208558-eecd-8826-f5bd-82198fc04291@researchware.com>	<003c01d4a2d3$41119ee0$c334dca0$@net>
	<6F6E56B5-971D-4B1E-AF0B-2760394F1953@me.com>
Message-ID: <003d01d4a2d9$24b8c9c0$6e2a5d40$@net>

Where did you see that error? The error log is empty.

That's very depressing. I sold this based on the info I got from the GoDaddy
sales team before I signed up.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2019 2:48 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Keith Clarke
Subject: Re: Livecode Server GoDaddy

Ralph, I gave up on getting LCS running on a GoDaddy VPS back in the summer
as it was too old at CentOS 6 with dependencies on glibc failing - I was
getting 500 errors IIRC.

Good luck!

Keith

> On 2 Jan 2019, at 19:42, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I keep getting 500 errors. I changed the htacces file to point .lc 
> files to the livecode server executable. Log files have no useful 
> info. The error log has nothing.
> Has anyone gotten LC Server working on GoDaddy shared hosting?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From keith.clarke at me.com  Wed Jan  2 15:48:30 2019
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:48:30 +0000
Subject: Livecode Server GoDaddy
In-Reply-To: <003d01d4a2d9$24b8c9c0$6e2a5d40$@net>
References: <d9c2fc26-b1c7-aff3-b9fb-f644e90332f9@researchware.com>
	<1e208558-eecd-8826-f5bd-82198fc04291@researchware.com>
	<003c01d4a2d3$41119ee0$c334dca0$@net>
	<6F6E56B5-971D-4B1E-AF0B-2760394F1953@me.com>
	<003d01d4a2d9$24b8c9c0$6e2a5d40$@net>
Message-ID: <66A3A269-5816-415B-9833-AF048DA8C7E6@me.com>

It?s a few months ago now and I?m no linux expert so not good with logs, etc. Maybe the first check is whether the hosting is CentOS 6 or 7? 

When I hit these issues, I started a thread on this list ?LiveCode Server on CentOS 6?? on 28 July, 2018. Warren Samples kindly confirmed that glibc 2.13+ was required for LC 8 & 9, he had LC Server running on CentOS 7 and CentOS ships with glibc 2.12, which is too old.

Apparently the command ldd --version might reveal what?s running.

Best,
Keith

> On 2 Jan 2019, at 20:24, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Where did you see that error? The error log is empty.
> 
> That's very depressing. I sold this based on the info I got from the GoDaddy
> sales team before I signed up.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2019 2:48 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Keith Clarke
> Subject: Re: Livecode Server GoDaddy
> 
> Ralph, I gave up on getting LCS running on a GoDaddy VPS back in the summer
> as it was too old at CentOS 6 with dependencies on glibc failing - I was
> getting 500 errors IIRC.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Keith
> 
>> On 2 Jan 2019, at 19:42, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I keep getting 500 errors. I changed the htacces file to point .lc 
>> files to the livecode server executable. Log files have no useful 
>> info. The error log has nothing.
>> Has anyone gotten LC Server working on GoDaddy shared hosting?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 17:17:34 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:17:34 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>

As usual, you can get Navigator here
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab it
from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.

Navigator now supports multiple targets per window. You can still have as
many Navigator windows as you like, but now each window can display the
controls for any set of cards and groups.

Select multiple stacks in the stack list, then right-click and select
browse controls, and Navigator will display all of the stacks in the same
list.

In any display, select any combination of cards and groups. Right-click and
select browse controls, and Navigator will display all of the containers in
the same list.

In any command that sets the target for Navigator, hold down the Shift key
to add to the target list instead of replacing it.

To remove a container from the list, right-click the container and select
Stop Browsing from the popup menu. Navigator will remove the container from
the display while retaining the others in the list.

Creating Navigator 7 required completely reworking how Navigator relayers
controls, which resulted in several improvements. First, if you drag a
control beneath a group, Navigator is now able to relayer the control
properly, without forcing it into the group. You can still drag controls
into and out of groups. And if you drag a grouped control to the bottom of
the group, it will remain in the group.

The new relayering code is smart about whether to move or duplicate
controls. Even if there are two representations of a container in the list,
dragging a control from one to the other will simply relayer the control
without duplicating it. Of course dragging a control from one container to
another will duplicate it.

Holding the option key reverses this behavior: if you hold the option key
while dragging a control within its container, the control will be
duplicated. And if you hold the option key while dragging a control to a
different container, the control will be moved to the new location, and
removed from the original.

I also updated the target crosshair so selecting an IDE stack will only
work if "Show IDE Stacks" is selected in the target menu.

I look forward to your feedback!


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Wed Jan  2 17:23:58 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:23:58 -0800
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <288AB12F-B095-4E1A-A9AF-8CE0C7B3433E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
	<288AB12F-B095-4E1A-A9AF-8CE0C7B3433E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2d84c245-598c-6c78-0d43-5e4f0030ccd0@sonic.net>

On 1/2/19 8:01 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> And I replied before checking all my other emails. Seriously, at some point we need to develop a list system where emails remain threaded. I have over 40 from this list this morning, and reading through every one, then trying to go back and respond is a little more brainwork than I am used to before my 3rd cup of coffee. :-)

Whoa! There are email clients that don't support threading?
Here ya go:

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 17:25:01 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:25:01 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>

I also got rid of all but one of the global variables Navigator has used
since the very first version. I had tried in the past to do away with them,
and failed miserably. But now they are vanquished!

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:17 PM Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> As usual, you can get Navigator here
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab
> it from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.
>
> Navigator now supports multiple targets per window. You can still have as
> many Navigator windows as you like, but now each window can display the
> controls for any set of cards and groups.
>
> Select multiple stacks in the stack list, then right-click and select
> browse controls, and Navigator will display all of the stacks in the same
> list.
>
> In any display, select any combination of cards and groups. Right-click
> and select browse controls, and Navigator will display all of the
> containers in the same list.
>
> In any command that sets the target for Navigator, hold down the Shift key
> to add to the target list instead of replacing it.
>
> To remove a container from the list, right-click the container and select
> Stop Browsing from the popup menu. Navigator will remove the container from
> the display while retaining the others in the list.
>
> Creating Navigator 7 required completely reworking how Navigator relayers
> controls, which resulted in several improvements. First, if you drag a
> control beneath a group, Navigator is now able to relayer the control
> properly, without forcing it into the group. You can still drag controls
> into and out of groups. And if you drag a grouped control to the bottom of
> the group, it will remain in the group.
>
> The new relayering code is smart about whether to move or duplicate
> controls. Even if there are two representations of a container in the list,
> dragging a control from one to the other will simply relayer the control
> without duplicating it. Of course dragging a control from one container to
> another will duplicate it.
>
> Holding the option key reverses this behavior: if you hold the option key
> while dragging a control within its container, the control will be
> duplicated. And if you hold the option key while dragging a control to a
> different container, the control will be moved to the new location, and
> removed from the original.
>
> I also updated the target crosshair so selecting an IDE stack will only
> work if "Show IDE Stacks" is selected in the target menu.
>
> I look forward to your feedback!
>


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Wed Jan  2 17:26:56 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:26:56 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fe8abf2-6098-a79b-31e3-f8ffaf8ce608@sonic.net>

On 1/2/19 2:25 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> I also got rid of all but one of the global variables Navigator has used
> since the very first version.

Yay!

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 17:29:57 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:29:57 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtp94D2UYaGrNekD_XttcvwvUmpUvQfBx-saRYGpNy3hvw@mail.gmail.com>

I forgot -- I made a video illustrating how the new features work. Here it
is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1_avMJnZ6k

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:25 PM Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> I also got rid of all but one of the global variables Navigator has used
> since the very first version. I had tried in the past to do away with them,
> and failed miserably. But now they are vanquished!
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:17 PM Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As usual, you can get Navigator here
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab
>> it from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.
>>
>> Navigator now supports multiple targets per window. You can still have as
>> many Navigator windows as you like, but now each window can display the
>> controls for any set of cards and groups.
>>
>> Select multiple stacks in the stack list, then right-click and select
>> browse controls, and Navigator will display all of the stacks in the same
>> list.
>>
>> In any display, select any combination of cards and groups. Right-click
>> and select browse controls, and Navigator will display all of the
>> containers in the same list.
>>
>> In any command that sets the target for Navigator, hold down the Shift
>> key to add to the target list instead of replacing it.
>>
>> To remove a container from the list, right-click the container and select
>> Stop Browsing from the popup menu. Navigator will remove the container from
>> the display while retaining the others in the list.
>>
>> Creating Navigator 7 required completely reworking how Navigator relayers
>> controls, which resulted in several improvements. First, if you drag a
>> control beneath a group, Navigator is now able to relayer the control
>> properly, without forcing it into the group. You can still drag controls
>> into and out of groups. And if you drag a grouped control to the bottom of
>> the group, it will remain in the group.
>>
>> The new relayering code is smart about whether to move or duplicate
>> controls. Even if there are two representations of a container in the list,
>> dragging a control from one to the other will simply relayer the control
>> without duplicating it. Of course dragging a control from one container to
>> another will duplicate it.
>>
>> Holding the option key reverses this behavior: if you hold the option key
>> while dragging a control within its container, the control will be
>> duplicated. And if you hold the option key while dragging a control to a
>> different container, the control will be moved to the new location, and
>> removed from the original.
>>
>> I also updated the target crosshair so selecting an IDE stack will only
>> work if "Show IDE Stacks" is selected in the target menu.
>>
>> I look forward to your feedback!
>>
>


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 17:30:44 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:30:44 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <3fe8abf2-6098-a79b-31e3-f8ffaf8ce608@sonic.net>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<3fe8abf2-6098-a79b-31e3-f8ffaf8ce608@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrW_VQ5J1AW_68WjDeVDf6tdAuZzGkqqf7-1Nx+mGVejg@mail.gmail.com>

Ha, I knew that to a select subset of people this would be the most
important feature of the update :-)

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:28 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 1/2/19 2:25 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> > I also got rid of all but one of the global variables Navigator has used
> > since the very first version.
>
> Yay!
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From hh at hyperhh.de  Wed Jan  2 17:53:02 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 23:53:02 +0100
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
Message-ID: <4A2ED74F-5090-431A-968B-4B719FA66EAE@hyperhh.de>

This is (not only now) a real comfortable developer tool.
Especially when starting a project the new features are very effective.
Thanks for that!




From waprothero at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 17:58:54 2019
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:58:54 -0800
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <479ABBA3-B0A7-49E5-9760-22D6C94BE0CB@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
	<91E627CE-DE81-4101-A80B-948A21BC6033@iotecdigital.com>
	<F5A1F354-74F4-4C2C-A68F-A4AA651F5D75@earthlearningsolutions.org>
	<479ABBA3-B0A7-49E5-9760-22D6C94BE0CB@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <C48E8D3F-4C90-40D3-874F-F84839136992@gmail.com>

Bob:
I tried it. Yes:
put the name of me  ?returns the name of the control that hosts the behavior script
put the name of this me ?returns the name of the behavior script

Best,
Bill

> On Jan 2, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Ah yes then, me refers to the object the script belongs to. With behaviors, me refers to the *instance* of the script which is "owned" by the object being interacted with. "this me" refers to the actual behavior script. What you want is "this me". 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 2, 2019, at 08:35 , prothero--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> Thanks for the response. You are probably right, the filename of me should work. I don?t know whether it?s old age or not, but several times I have worked on a problem until I felt I had exhausted my ideas, posted a question to this list, then a solution immediately came to mind. If this happens, I will post an update with apologies. 
>> 
>> In the case you responded to, I was trying to find the name of the script only stack that contained the currently running handler. 
>> 
>> Put me into thisStack  ?works fine
>> the short name of this stack ?wrong, gives the name of the calling stack, in my case, anyway.
>> put the short name of the target ?not it
>> 
>> ?The target? is great for determining the control that initiated the script, but it does lose its original value when a ?send in time? command is given, like commonly done during an animation.
>> 
>> Anyway, Bob, thanks for your response. 
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> http://es.earthednet.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Wed Jan  2 20:02:54 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 17:02:54 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtrW_VQ5J1AW_68WjDeVDf6tdAuZzGkqqf7-1Nx+mGVejg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<3fe8abf2-6098-a79b-31e3-f8ffaf8ce608@sonic.net>
	<CAKCLKtrW_VQ5J1AW_68WjDeVDf6tdAuZzGkqqf7-1Nx+mGVejg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0976e486-184f-b04d-9995-532c19bd3b14@sonic.net>

On 1/2/19 2:30 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> Ha, I knew that to a select subset of people this would be the most
> important feature of the update :-)

Heh. Yeah, I've backburned for now a talk entitled "Global Variables and 
Their Discontents"

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 20:18:26 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 17:18:26 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <0976e486-184f-b04d-9995-532c19bd3b14@sonic.net>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<3fe8abf2-6098-a79b-31e3-f8ffaf8ce608@sonic.net>
	<CAKCLKtrW_VQ5J1AW_68WjDeVDf6tdAuZzGkqqf7-1Nx+mGVejg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0976e486-184f-b04d-9995-532c19bd3b14@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtpHp9hu+CUXd-SELCU6d5=eMqKzJdXXwzqAgEm_seAt4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:04 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 1/2/19 2:30 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> > Ha, I knew that to a select subset of people this would be the most
> > important feature of the update :-)
>
> Heh. Yeah, I've backburned for now a talk entitled "Global Variables and
> Their Discontents"
>

The last remaining global variable in Navigator is on my short list for
removal. It will be easy relative to the others that are already gone, it
just wasn't critical to the current update, and I didn't realize it was the
last one until last night.


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 20:18:52 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 17:18:52 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <4A2ED74F-5090-431A-968B-4B719FA66EAE@hyperhh.de>
References: <4A2ED74F-5090-431A-968B-4B719FA66EAE@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtogoWjEpJzwwQF61vach=54GGrkLZqg+CwXsJq+yav7Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Glad to help. Let me know if there's anything still missing.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:53 PM hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This is (not only now) a real comfortable developer tool.
> Especially when starting a project the new features are very effective.
> Thanks for that!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Jan  2 23:55:55 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 22:55:55 -0600
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG_ZJO5Bs-QA+OG+1cc-8HA8DCuFZhxk6jspnH7A=28foQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

Over the holiday break I took time to package up some UI controls I use in
my own projects and make them available as helpers for Levure apps*. The
controls are named "DataView" and "DataView Tree". The DataView is a
leaner, more efficient DataGrid Form. It allows you to efficiently display
highly customized rows of data on desktop and mobile. The DataGrid Tree is
built on top of the DataView and works with a tree structure.

I've prepared a demo project with examples of each type of control. Here
are the github repos for the demo project and the controls themselves.

Demo Github repo: https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo
DataView Github repo: https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
DataView Tree Github repo:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview_tree

I have also posted a video which walks through the demo project:

https://youtu.be/euIHj1Qrokk

While there is still work to do on the documentation, the demo stack can
help the motivated developer start using the controls in their own projects.

* Of course the code will work in apps that don't use the Levure framework.
You just need to integrate all of the stacks and scripts into your app
manually.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 01:07:31 2019
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 17:07:31 +1100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <c7c4b481-17c4-1649-a933-349e7307c6b1@sonic.net>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<EB376CA3-2FBC-43F4-A44C-05203B040529@derbrill.de>
	<c7c4b481-17c4-1649-a933-349e7307c6b1@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kgZh0dS8O+yJiDttqJypXPH+-8vdbUoYWbXEphKzjO=Bw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 9:17 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, it is definitely a change in behavior.
I want to strongly disagree with your conclusion here ;-)
>
> This isn't the only place where the dictionary is wrong.

My 9.0.2 Dictionary quite clearly states for the property 'lockScreen'
that it was introduced and hasn't changed since version 1.0.  Which
means, as Craig said, it's exactly the same as it was in HC. The
Dictionary also clearly states:

"LiveCode keeps count of how many times the screen has been locked.
You must balance each unlock with a lock; if you lock the screen twice
and then unlock it once, the screen remains locked."

Yes it is unfortunate that that important statement doesn't appear in
the other relevant lock screen and unlock screen entries.

I'm with Herman, learnt a long long time ago to use a simple if
statement to keep the lockScreen count to 1.



From benr at cogapp.com  Thu Jan  3 05:58:54 2019
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 10:58:54 -0000
Subject: IMAP library, or support via tsNet?
In-Reply-To: <44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
References: <11C9110E-88C1-48C1-AF16-AF081D1BB6E2@madmansoft.com>
	<4C9E1B0D-74D3-40A1-A80F-BFAFDE0A1D12@appisle.net>
	<44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
Message-ID: <ca2c19bf-9ca7-3572-daf0-664809a3364c@cogapp.com>

Is there anything in the way of an IMAP library around?

My needs are relatively simple: I want to connect to an iMAP server, 
recursively list folders and fetch the size of each (if necessary by fetching 
the size of each message)

e.g. in JavaScript with this library
	https://github.com/emailjs/emailjs-imap-client
I'd be using
	connect()
	listMailboxes()
	listMessages(... ['RFC822.SIZE'])
	...

Is there a library that would support this kind of access?

Does tsNet provide anything above the basic network primitives to support 
this?  Some time I ago there was a tantalising hint on this list:

On 24/08/2017 11:05, Charles Warwick via use-livecode wrote:
> IMAP and POP3 support in tsNet under Linux is only available in tsNet 1.3.0+ 
> which will be bundled with the next LC release.
> 
> All other platforms have had support for those protocols for a while.? I hope 
> to have some documentation available in the next two weeks.

Did that ever come to fruition?


Many thanks,

Ben



From revolution at derbrill.de  Thu Jan  3 06:13:06 2019
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Pfaff-Brill)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:13:06 +0100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11344.1546445702.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.11344.1546445702.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <373BF72E-4509-42DF-8D59-19728E762231@derbrill.de>

It might be that I stand corrected for the behaviour of lock / unlock screen.
But then I also stand puzzled on the effect it has between engines. Same code which redrew the screen within 2.5 seconds on the 5.x series took 11 secs in 8/9. After debugging libraries. Being used to make sure that lock screens no longer nested brought this down to 1.5 seconds. Rest of the code left unchanged! I really do not get it. That said, I am pretty happy with the fact. I only wish I would have found/tried this earlier.

Regarding strictness of the parser, I am actually quite glad that the parser is less forgiving nowadays. :-) Have been working in strict compile mode for ages and this has saved me from shooting my own foot numerous times.
Thank you all for your input on this. If anyone of you has any more gotchas to look out for I am most interested to learn. :-)

Cheers,

Malte


From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Thu Jan  3 06:17:57 2019
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 11:17:57 -0000
Subject: IMAP library, or support via tsNet?
In-Reply-To: <44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
References: <11C9110E-88C1-48C1-AF16-AF081D1BB6E2@madmansoft.com>
	<4C9E1B0D-74D3-40A1-A80F-BFAFDE0A1D12@appisle.net>
	<44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
Message-ID: <c5320578-a0e8-ec07-7093-27215f614e9d@cogapp.com>

Is there anything in the way of an IMAP library around?

My needs are relatively simple: I want to connect to an iMAP server, 
recursively list folders and fetch the size of each (if necessary by fetching 
the size of each message)

e.g. in JavaScript with this library
	https://github.com/emailjs/emailjs-imap-client
I'd be using
	connect()
	listMailboxes()
	listMessages(... ['RFC822.SIZE'])
	...

Is there a library that would support this kind of access?

Does tsNet provide anything above the basic network primitives to support 
this?  Some time I ago there was a tantalising hint on this list:

On 24/08/2017 11:05, Charles Warwick via use-livecode wrote:
> IMAP and POP3 support in tsNet under Linux is only available in tsNet 1.3.0+ 
> which will be bundled with the next LC release.
> 
> All other platforms have had support for those protocols for a while.? I hope 
> to have some documentation available in the next two weeks.

Did that ever come to fruition?


Many thanks,

Ben



From hh at hyperhh.de  Thu Jan  3 07:37:40 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 13:37:40 +0100
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
Message-ID: <621AA636-0641-4951-83CA-7F333603006C@hyperhh.de>

> Geoff C. wrote:
> Let me know if there's anything still missing.

A reordering in the stacks list that sets the window layering?
(What a simple go to stack from last line down to first line does).




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Jan  3 08:57:26 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 14:57:26 +0100
Subject: IMAP library, or support via tsNet?
In-Reply-To: <c5320578-a0e8-ec07-7093-27215f614e9d@cogapp.com>
References: <11C9110E-88C1-48C1-AF16-AF081D1BB6E2@madmansoft.com>
	<4C9E1B0D-74D3-40A1-A80F-BFAFDE0A1D12@appisle.net>
	<44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
	<c5320578-a0e8-ec07-7093-27215f614e9d@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <97A8D445-D7C9-4FE2-9083-47045D356D43@m-r-d.de>

Ben,

i just did a quick test with my local test mai server. This script for example would output the number of messages in the imap folder to the message box.

put tUSERNAME into pSettings["username"]
put put into pSettings["password"]
put "STATUS INBOX (MESSAGES)" into pRequest
put "imap://192.168.7.25" into pURL
put tsnetCustomSync(pURL,pRequest,xHeaders,rOutHeaders,rResult,rBytes,pSettings)

Did not try ssl, but should work also.


Regards,

Matthias



Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de

> Am 03.01.2019 um 12:17 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Is there anything in the way of an IMAP library around?
> 
> My needs are relatively simple: I want to connect to an iMAP server, recursively list folders and fetch the size of each (if necessary by fetching the size of each message)
> 
> e.g. in JavaScript with this library
> 	https://github.com/emailjs/emailjs-imap-client
> I'd be using
> 	connect()
> 	listMailboxes()
> 	listMessages(... ['RFC822.SIZE'])
> 	...
> 
> Is there a library that would support this kind of access?
> 
> Does tsNet provide anything above the basic network primitives to support this?  Some time I ago there was a tantalising hint on this list:
> 
> On 24/08/2017 11:05, Charles Warwick via use-livecode wrote:
>> IMAP and POP3 support in tsNet under Linux is only available in tsNet 1.3.0+ which will be bundled with the next LC release.
>> All other platforms have had support for those protocols for a while.  I hope to have some documentation available in the next two weeks.
> 
> Did that ever come to fruition?
> 
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Ben
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan  3 11:50:05 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 16:50:05 +0000
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <0976e486-184f-b04d-9995-532c19bd3b14@sonic.net>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtpDc1C2yTs2piioign_bLc4tNwxUPvf0yRftB+wtd+nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<3fe8abf2-6098-a79b-31e3-f8ffaf8ce608@sonic.net>
	<CAKCLKtrW_VQ5J1AW_68WjDeVDf6tdAuZzGkqqf7-1Nx+mGVejg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0976e486-184f-b04d-9995-532c19bd3b14@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <DCDE3F88-C31D-461F-9286-C6ED30EBB11E@iotecdigital.com>

More like malcontents. :-)

Bob S


> On Jan 2, 2019, at 17:02 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 1/2/19 2:30 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
>> Ha, I knew that to a select subset of people this would be the most
>> important feature of the update :-)
> 
> Heh. Yeah, I've backburned for now a talk entitled "Global Variables and Their Discontents"
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan  3 12:54:48 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 17:54:48 +0000
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C8E8643F-2A7E-4446-81B8-4A892C13162B@iotecdigital.com>

Folding seems to have broken. I cannot fold or unfold but the default folding is in effect. 

Bob S


> On Jan 2, 2019, at 14:17 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> As usual, you can get Navigator here
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab it
> from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.
<snip>


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 12:54:55 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:54:55 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <621AA636-0641-4951-83CA-7F333603006C@hyperhh.de>
References: <621AA636-0641-4951-83CA-7F333603006C@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrtWeqkLPx_J=jL3J1W=cvWRn6pKSJ6YqMrPHGUMj5_AQ@mail.gmail.com>

So you want drag and drop in the stack list to reorder the windows? What's
the purpose? To bring a particular stack to the foreground?

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 4:38 AM hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> > Geoff C. wrote:
> > Let me know if there's anything still missing.
>
> A reordering in the stacks list that sets the window layering?
> (What a simple go to stack from last line down to first line does).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From curry at pair.com  Thu Jan  3 13:12:38 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 13:12:38 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <0286f5fc-6028-1a9e-0714-9650b1d1a246@pair.com>


Howdy LiveCoders,

I'm very happy to see people succeeding, optimizing, and coming back and 
LiveCoding. That's heartwarming.

But I'm making one of my rare appearances here, chiming in lest this 
thread end while consisting only of celebrating extra work that was put 
in to overcome slowdowns. To me putting in double work (or 1.x work) to 
achieve the result is not ideal.

Therefore, while I'm very happy people are back on track and "OK" - 
while I share in their relief and renewed optimism - I don't think it 
rises to the level of celebration. Quite the reverse. That would be 
celebrating a model where requiring more work to produce fewer results 
(or repeated work to achieve the same result) is considered a good 
thing. I consider that a bad thing.

Objective, repeatable testing has showed that LC 9 is considerably 
slower than LC 6 in a number of areas. In 2 years, LC has become twice 
as slow at some basic tasks. This pretty much negates the benefits of 
Moore's Law (and similar advances driving current and future hardware) 
and deprives coders and users of what would otherwise be a trend toward 
(offset a bit by OS flashiness) general 1.x improvement in performance 
over time. And that's passive gain; any work on code improvements would 
yield a multiple of performance.

Likewise, in 2 years LC has required one heck of a lot of refactoring. 
That may be fine and dandy for people who write loose and sloppy code 
the first time and love rewriting everything, but it's not quite so cool 
for responsible, experienced coders who do it right the first time, and 
build reliable and optimized code to last as a smart value for their 
clients and customers. If you love retyping, redoing, and refactoring 
every 2 years, along with multiplied costs, then I totally understand 
the celebration. Personally I don't love that model. My ideal is just 
the opposite - smart code that is built to last and already optimized 
and reasonably well written from the start.

Imagine all the hours, dollars, pounds, and euros spent on refactoring 
for 7/8/9 - multiplied by all the projects and clients. It's staggering. 
I'm confident that a good portion of that was avoidable. And STILL the 9 
engine is slow and has more bugs and arbitrary problematic changes than 
it should.

For my own addons, with VERY few exceptions, it has been due to LC's own 
bugs and arbitrary changes when they have broken or had problems. LC 
breaks it, I have to fix it. That's OK now and then, but it's not OK 
when LC gets sloppy, because when it's one person against a team, it 
becomes faster for a team to make a mess and break things than an 
individual to follow behind for clean up and repair. And one of those 
very few exceptions was a slowdown that another person added to my code 
when I permitted them to tweak the project, something I rarely do; I 
write very few bugs myself and that's how I like it. Don't you?

Sometimes I'm slower than ideal in following and repairing the breaks 
with my own updates, but it's a team vs one situation, updates go 
through a process, and the "one" is not the one doing the breaking. (Hi 
Klaus, old buddy old pal.) More updates are close, BTW - I have a little 
less extra steam for updates after my regular client work during winter, 
but it'll pick up again in the spring.

How much time and money have you put into your own 7-9 refactoring and 
debugging? Minus your bad code, of course. (If you're thinking "it all 
needed refactoring anyway" that's not proving your point, it's proving 
you were very naughty when coding.) :) For any code riding on top of 
another layer, as ours does, it makes sense to minimize engine and 
syntax breaks as much as reasonably possible. Otherwise some of the 
advantages of the layered environment are lost. There will be some 
breaks over time with generational improvements, but we're way over the 
ideal. And a steady loss of performance over time is just not a good 
thing in any possible universe. (Well, maybe a universe with inverse 
physics.)

Can we survive with this model? Heck yeah. Here we are, at least a good 
number of us. Was it ideal? Not in your wildest dreams. Here I must note 
that we have a lot of bad examples from the big industry players. They 
are taking planned obsolescence to extremes to make big bucks, in 
software as well as hardware. They don't mind if you have to pay N times 
(or work a reasonable amount of hours multipled by N extra times) to 
achieve the same results. They love your money more than they love YOU 
the person. I'm the opposite. I care about YOU - all of you, LC Ltd and 
the entire community.

So when people are frustrated and depressed and give up and then come 
back and try again and put in some renewed time and energy, I get it. 
I'm happy too. But I'm locally happy, for them as an individual, not 
globally happy for us as a community. Because this is inefficient. I'm 
not a very emotional person. I don't get depressed and give up and then 
come back. Very steady, always here, always proceeding with LC client 
projects (first) and addons (second). Not swayed by the ebb and flow.

But I do hate to see lost performance, and wasted energy is my nemesis; 
I hate it and make no apologies for doing so. I don't love to put in 
renewed time and energy to re-accomplish the same results; I didn't go 
away emotional and mad, so there's no "make up love and kisses" 
emotional joy in the extra work for me. It's just extra work to redo or 
fix X for LC's wild changes instead of pursuing new project Y. With 
extremely few exceptions, what I code is build well the first time, 
fairly well optimized and build to last without further expense to 
yourself EXCEPT when wantonly broken by others! Likewise when I'm the 
middle layer, I try not to break your code quickly or unnecessarily. I'm 
proud to embrace that model and wish others would do so.

What would be the results of a different model where the need to 
constantly redo is avoided? Less time wasted redoing the same things 
means more time to pursue OTHER things - less repetition, more 
achievements. Fewer of the same products, more different advances and 
variety of products to help the community. Less cost per client, more 
happy clients. Less time refactoring and (only if you write it well the 
first time) more time for new features and new projects. More carefully 
written code means fewer unnecessary bugs to start with, less noise and 
more signal for LC and our own projects. That's true for us, yes, but 
ALSO for LC itself. Any deficiency in LC (the underlying layer) is 
multiplied across hundreds or thousands of projects. Lots of time and 
money involved. Besides saving us a ton of time and money, imagine what 
LC itself could achieve.

And yes, absolutely yes - code can be written better without added time 
and cost, just as you could hire two people to work N hours on a home 
repair and one result could be excellent and sturdy, while the other is 
shoddy and crumbles at the first touch. For the same price, two 
completely different qualities and approaches of the work. To get back 
to the performance topic, if the engine were kept in shape, optimizing 
your code would be multiplied by the optimized engine, or AT LEAST we 
wouldn't have to fight to overcome slowdowns every N years.

Hmmm, it's one of those really tough choices...more results for less 
work, or more work and good old repetition for fewer results? Which 
model would I prefer? Wow, decisions decisions. That's may take some 
time to decide, so I'll go back to lurk/work mode, while I ponder that 
question at length.

I know people can rationalize their joyful extra work and expense until 
their dying breath, or point out examples of other IDEs that do it too. 
(Two wrong are always right, right? And their are no shortage of big bad 
examples these days.) Ha ha, but good luck justifying your extra work 
redoing the same task instead of using that time to accomplish something 
else you've always wanted to do! Convince yourself of that. Of course a 
few people may have buckets of time and energy on their hands and that 
would make it hard for them to see the difference. Then again, what goes 
around comes around; those who don't value energy and time are very 
unlikely to be good optimizers or excellent coders. I value both very 
highly, and it's no coincidence that I'm not a sloppy coder. Love good 
code, and fast reliable code to boot. In the engine as well as at the 
scripting (or "building") layer. Good code everywhere. Happy New Year to 
LC Ltd and every LC user! ;)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan  3 13:13:11 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:13:11 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <373BF72E-4509-42DF-8D59-19728E762231@derbrill.de>
References: <mailman.11344.1546445702.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<373BF72E-4509-42DF-8D59-19728E762231@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <159E40D7-D5FE-4411-9B27-9C3B8E493A0E@iotecdigital.com>

I'm curious if issuing a new screen lock inadvertently and for an instant unlocks the screen and a redraw happens? Not the desired effect obviously but that would explain things somewhat. 

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2019, at 03:13 , Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> It might be that I stand corrected for the behaviour of lock / unlock screen.
> But then I also stand puzzled on the effect it has between engines. Same code which redrew the screen within 2.5 seconds on the 5.x series took 11 secs in 8/9. After debugging libraries. Being used to make sure that lock screens no longer nested brought this down to 1.5 seconds. Rest of the code left unchanged! I really do not get it. That said, I am pretty happy with the fact. I only wish I would have found/tried this earlier.




From mark at livecode.com  Thu Jan  3 13:20:49 2019
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 19:20:49 +0100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <373BF72E-4509-42DF-8D59-19728E762231@derbrill.de>
References: <mailman.11344.1546445702.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<373BF72E-4509-42DF-8D59-19728E762231@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <ee21d70a881885c358f6151a814c61cb@livecode.com>

On 2019-01-03 12:13, Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode wrote:
> It might be that I stand corrected for the behaviour of lock / unlock 
> screen.
> But then I also stand puzzled on the effect it has between engines.
> Same code which redrew the screen within 2.5 seconds on the 5.x series
> took 11 secs in 8/9. After debugging libraries. Being used to make
> sure that lock screens no longer nested brought this down to 1.5
> seconds. Rest of the code left unchanged! I really do not get it. That
> said, I am pretty happy with the fact. I only wish I would have
> found/tried this earlier.

I wonder if this is combination of one too many unlock screens (so the 
screen wasn't actually locked for the whole process you timed); and 
having a Retina screen...

If so, in 5.x the screen was probably being redrawn when you didn't 
intend also, but it was rendering 1/4 of the number of pixels so took 
1/4 of the time or thereabouts (5.x would have been rendering to a 1/4 
size buffer which was then upscaled by the OS to full-resolution Retina; 
it was only 6.x+ which started to render to a full-retina resolution 
window buffer on retina displays).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mkoob at rogers.com  Thu Jan  3 13:29:52 2019
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:29:52 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <C48E8D3F-4C90-40D3-874F-F84839136992@gmail.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
	<91E627CE-DE81-4101-A80B-948A21BC6033@iotecdigital.com>
	<F5A1F354-74F4-4C2C-A68F-A4AA651F5D75@earthlearningsolutions.org>
	<479ABBA3-B0A7-49E5-9760-22D6C94BE0CB@iotecdigital.com>
	<C48E8D3F-4C90-40D3-874F-F84839136992@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1546540192616-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi

Another way to approach it is to use the 'get the executionContext'.   You
can get the filename of the script only stack from this

I tried this in a button with a behaviour script on a new stack with three
fields to see the different results.

on mouseUp pButtonNumber
   set the itemdelimiter to comma
   put item 4 of the executionContexts into tStackPath
   set the itemDelimiter to "/"
   put the last item of tStackPath into tStackFileName
   delete the last character of tStackFileName
   put tStackFileName into field 1 -- file name of script only stack with
extension
   put the name of me into field 2 -- name of control that has the behavior
   put the name of this me into field 3 -- name of script only stack
end mouseUp

Using the executionContexts you get the actual filename,  not sure if that
is what you want or the stack name.  Either way both options are there.

Martin



--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Thu Jan  3 13:30:15 2019
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 13:30:15 -0500
Subject: LiveCode Server Mojave
Message-ID: <39B7F84B-6F0B-4A39-A883-5104D0BA6480@all-auctions.com>

Happy New Year's Greetings to all LiveCoders!

Has anyone upgraded their LiveCode Server
to Mojave yet?

I am in the process and finding it to be
quite the problem as Apple decided
to get rid of their front-end server.

Everything that used to be in the Server
folder now has to be moved to the
Webserver folder.

They published a document in June 2018
https://developer.apple.com/support/macos-server/macOS-Server-Service-Migration-Guide.pdf <https://developer.apple.com/support/macos-server/macOS-Server-Service-Migration-Guide.pdf>

I find their documentation to be sadly lacking in proper instruction examples etc.
You would have thought they could have been kind enough to provide a nice
video or two on the subject before yanking everything away from loyal users.

This problem also involves how LiveCode Server should be installed.
Those instructions should also be update as soon as possible.

If some expert LiveCode developer came up with a good solution I would
bet that many people would be willing to pay for such a utility.

Let me know of your experiences or what other solutions you think of.

Thanks,

Rick

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan  3 13:31:12 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:31:12 +0000
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <2d84c245-598c-6c78-0d43-5e4f0030ccd0@sonic.net>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
	<288AB12F-B095-4E1A-A9AF-8CE0C7B3433E@iotecdigital.com>
	<2d84c245-598c-6c78-0d43-5e4f0030ccd0@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7C937F7C-0FBC-433B-BBC8-092F30FD9ED5@iotecdigital.com>

Apple Mail does indeed support threading, but somehow certain emails or rather replies to emails "unthread" and start a new thread. Part of the problem is that some simply subscribe to the list as individual emails, while others employ the digest, and still others use the forum (I think). The only solution would be a list service that sent and received in all these modes using the same process, which I am not even sure is possible. :-(

Bob S


> On Jan 2, 2019, at 14:23 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 1/2/19 8:01 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> And I replied before checking all my other emails. Seriously, at some point we need to develop a list system where emails remain threaded. I have over 40 from this list this morning, and reading through every one, then trying to go back and respond is a little more brainwork than I am used to before my 3rd cup of coffee. :-)
> 
> Whoa! There are email clients that don't support threading?
> Here ya go:
> 
> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan  3 13:35:29 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:35:29 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <0286f5fc-6028-1a9e-0714-9650b1d1a246@pair.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<0286f5fc-6028-1a9e-0714-9650b1d1a246@pair.com>
Message-ID: <53204179-A816-420A-9C23-813FCEEA0FA8@iotecdigital.com>

This is largely due to unicode support in everything, as I understand it. This performance hit is, I think, completely understandable. But there definitely is/was something else going on when developing under Windows. As other threads have amply demonstrated, V9 introduced a massive performance hit, and it's my understanding that those issues have been somewhat or wholly addressed in 9.0.2. 

I will be corrected if inaccurate. 

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2019, at 10:12 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Objective, repeatable testing has showed that LC 9 is considerably slower than LC 6 in a number of areas. In 2 years, LC has become twice as slow at some basic tasks. This pretty much negates the benefits of Moore's Law (and similar advances driving current and future hardware) and deprives coders and users of what would otherwise be a trend toward (offset a bit by OS flashiness) general 1.x improvement in performance over time. And that's passive gain; any work on code improvements would yield a multiple of performance.




From mkoob at rogers.com  Thu Jan  3 13:42:19 2019
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:42:19 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Whoops: Getting the name of the script only stack an handler is in
In-Reply-To: <7C937F7C-0FBC-433B-BBC8-092F30FD9ED5@iotecdigital.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<A654925A-A64B-49DC-9EC4-942D227DE1C1@derbrill.de>
	<CAKCLKtpLHcTAry5LKycpAO8Qrz7TPuJLyWWoyk_-as0uX25-=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546274239849-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<82785D12-03A6-4FDB-BA3A-E2C2A96F17E6@gmail.com>
	<0D51C108-4206-4FF7-AF72-6107D6EEC027@gmail.com>
	<288AB12F-B095-4E1A-A9AF-8CE0C7B3433E@iotecdigital.com>
	<2d84c245-598c-6c78-0d43-5e4f0030ccd0@sonic.net>
	<7C937F7C-0FBC-433B-BBC8-092F30FD9ED5@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <1546540939406-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

To view the messages in threaded form I use:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/

I can't reply thru that so when I do want to reply I use:
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/

I can't imagine trying to manage all the email from the lists in my mail.  I
have enough to sort thru there as it is.

Martin



--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From curry at pair.com  Thu Jan  3 13:47:46 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 13:47:46 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <53204179-A816-420A-9C23-813FCEEA0FA8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <53204179-A816-420A-9C23-813FCEEA0FA8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <21adf259-4831-ed0d-1708-47907aceae47@pair.com>


Bob:

 > This is largely due to unicode support in everything,
 > as I understand it.

Nope, I think that was more of a prior assumption going in, and held 
onto despite test results to the contrary, than a conclusion derived 
from testing. :)

Some tests were designed to rule out the effects of text to the maximum 
extent possible, so slowdowns were almost certainly (or if so, should 
not be) the result of unicode. And some text features maintained or 
gained speed despite unicode. So whatever part it played, there's much 
more to the story.

As I say, tests are repeatable; there will be nothing left to difference 
of opinion or chance. I tested an RC of 902 with the same old slow 
results. Soon when I have a chance, I will test 902 final. Whenever an 
LC version comes along with significant improvements, I'll be all over 
it and make the tests extremely public. Not the case so far, we're still 
in the speed limit zone AFAIK!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan  3 13:48:41 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:48:41 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <0286f5fc-6028-1a9e-0714-9650b1d1a246@pair.com>
References: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<0286f5fc-6028-1a9e-0714-9650b1d1a246@pair.com>
Message-ID: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>

Not to put too fine a point on this, but ALL development environments suffer from this. Even if everything is done "right", future OS enhancements, new and improved plugins, LC feature enhancements and even developer enhancements can all lend themselves to the necessity for refactoring. 

It also begs the question what is meant by doing things right. With a fairly forgiving scripting environment like LC, right simply means, "compiles and runs without any errors." I moved projects from LC6 to LC9 with little difficulty. My problems revolved around app building, and I got through that fairly simply. 

What is missing here I think is what is great about developing in LC. The time it takes you to build an app is a fraction of the time it would have taken you in C variants or even Java, and the manpower needed is also dramatically reduced (and dare I say more cost effective to employ). It's a little like my boss telling me that I need to make more money getting customers to pay for IT services if I expect a raise. 

The elephant in the room however is that I have been saving them a boatload of money these 4 years, ever since I took over managing all their internal IT support allowing them to can their prior contractor (who was expensive and not nearly as responsive as we would have liked them to be). Not only that, but I have produced an in-house application used by all the IT technicians for generating professional looking customer forms onsite, as well as revamping all our internal forms and standardizing them. 

I could go on singing my own praises, but my point is, the assessment of profitability often depends largely on where you decide to plant your flag. I think from reading you email, that you might want to consider planting the flag a bit further back into your own territory. 

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2019, at 10:12 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Likewise, in 2 years LC has required one heck of a lot of refactoring. That may be fine and dandy for people who write loose and sloppy code the first time and love rewriting everything, but it's not quite so cool for responsible, experienced coders who do it right the first time, and build reliable and optimized code to last as a smart value for their clients and customers. If you love retyping, redoing, and refactoring every 2 years, along with multiplied costs, then I totally understand the celebration. Personally I don't love that model. My ideal is just the opposite - smart code that is built to last and already optimized and reasonably well written from the start.




From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Thu Jan  3 13:56:42 2019
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:56:42 +0000
Subject: IMAP library, or support via tsNet?
In-Reply-To: <97A8D445-D7C9-4FE2-9083-47045D356D43@m-r-d.de>
References: <11C9110E-88C1-48C1-AF16-AF081D1BB6E2@madmansoft.com>
	<4C9E1B0D-74D3-40A1-A80F-BFAFDE0A1D12@appisle.net>
	<44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
	<c5320578-a0e8-ec07-7093-27215f614e9d@cogapp.com>
	<97A8D445-D7C9-4FE2-9083-47045D356D43@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <d81b20d0-88e2-c711-1656-6dbe876a2a36@cogapp.com>

Aha! I didn't even realise that there was an imap URL protocol.

Thanks Matthias, that's exactly what I needed.

best regards,

Ben

On 03/01/2019 13:57, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Ben,
> 
> i just did a quick test with my local test mai server. This script for example would output the number of messages in the imap folder to the message box.
> 
> put tUSERNAME into pSettings["username"]
> put put into pSettings["password"]
> put "STATUS INBOX (MESSAGES)" into pRequest
> put "imap://192.168.7.25" into pURL
> put tsnetCustomSync(pURL,pRequest,xHeaders,rOutHeaders,rResult,rBytes,pSettings)
> 
> Did not try ssl, but should work also.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> Matthias Rebbe
> 
> free tools for Livecoders:
> https://instamaker.dermattes.de
> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de
> 
>> Am 03.01.2019 um 12:17 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Is there anything in the way of an IMAP library around?
>>
>> My needs are relatively simple: I want to connect to an iMAP server, recursively list folders and fetch the size of each (if necessary by fetching the size of each message)
>>
>> e.g. in JavaScript with this library
>> 	https://github.com/emailjs/emailjs-imap-client
>> I'd be using
>> 	connect()
>> 	listMailboxes()
>> 	listMessages(... ['RFC822.SIZE'])
>> 	...
>>
>> Is there a library that would support this kind of access?
>>
>> Does tsNet provide anything above the basic network primitives to support this?  Some time I ago there was a tantalising hint on this list:
>>
>> On 24/08/2017 11:05, Charles Warwick via use-livecode wrote:
>>> IMAP and POP3 support in tsNet under Linux is only available in tsNet 1.3.0+ which will be bundled with the next LC release.
>>> All other platforms have had support for those protocols for a while.  I hope to have some documentation available in the next two weeks.
>>
>> Did that ever come to fruition?
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From curry at pair.com  Thu Jan  3 16:20:53 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 16:20:53 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
References: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <06a2469d-87a3-6f99-8c75-22cf0cf2f29c@pair.com>


Sorry Bob (not to single you out, on the contrary thanks for your reply 
and sharing your experience) but just be aware I never not enter a 
thread lightly, nor were my words hasty. This has been a situation years 
in the making, with plenty of evidence behind it, and I've been many 
years in the LC arena. My list and forum silence may sometimes mask my 
eternal presence and busy contributions. I realize that the human mind 
tends to favor the loudest and most frequent voices (in marketing it's 
recognized that an audience needs to hear a message repeated 3 times to 
even notice it, whereas if you repeat yourself 3 times in code you've 
broken a rule) so when popping up now and then, I will remind the hasty 
of reply that while my points are easy to dismiss on the subjective 
basis of being heard less frequently, they are built on solid ground and 
difficult to overturn by factual or logical approach.

(I don't have spare time to be one of the loudest and most frequent 
voices here, so for better or worse this post must satisfy the 
obligatory 3 times mentioning, and unfortunately that's all I can spare; 
I'll be back in lurk/work mode soon after this because as my clients 
know, they come first; no exceptions. Even addons come second and 
conversation is last. To sum up what years of factual records will show, 
I'm not one of the most frequent posters here on the list, but I am one 
of the most frequently involved consultants in the LC world. So....)

> Not to put too fine a point on this, but ALL development
> environments suffer from this.

Not all to the same extent. And there's the difference, adding to 
personal preference and work needs/range of experience. Without going 
too far down that potentially red herring road, when it could be called 
suffering it's too much. When done right it doesn't cause suffering. 
That will vary per personal preference, bias, and experience, but what 
stays true is that efficiency is better than a lack of it. I'm sure you 
have many examples, but I would have many counter-examples, plus I think 
arguing for quality and efficiency is a stronger position that arguing 
for a lower-quality, lower-efficiency bandwagon. Winning an irrelevant 
contest of examples would not weaken my point, so we can probably save 
that particular trip.

> I moved projects from LC6 to LC9 with little difficulty.
> My problems revolved around app building, and I got through
> that fairly simply.

I'm genuinely happy for you there! I work for a wide variety of client 
projects and my own addons and other projects, so it takes me lots of 
places within LC. Not one platform nor approach nor area of LC 
endeavors. I also have spent a lot of time tracking down issues to 
report, investing my own addon income right back in LC debugging rather 
than own products, to help LC through the transitions, and many of those 
bugs have been fixed. You may have benefited from those and the efforts 
of others who dedicated a lot of time to that. So I applaud your own 
luck and lack of trouble, but perhaps fortunately you were in an area 
that benefited from the most attention to fixes and the least need for 
performance.

But never mind me; for anyone to argue that there was no extra work 
involved, they would have to scrub some messages from the list in 
general and this thread in particular. I'm not sure if you read the 
original post in this thread, but the extra work was acknowledged right 
there when starting this thread, by others. Without that, we wouldn't be 
having this conversation in the first place, no matter whether criticism 
or justification, so I feel no need to say more on that point; 
sufficiently documented although perhaps not a universal condition. But 
remember, not everyone who became frustrated came back. There were other 
discussions, including a somewhat hilarious one that I can't relate here 
due to privacy agreements but where I was the person complaining the 
LEAST of many prominent LC members in that particular conversation.

(Likewise, those separate points of defense argue against themselves to 
a degree; if there was no trouble in your case, then do all environments 
indeed suffer the problem? Separately good defenses, but together, not 
quite as strong.)

Sorry again (and nothing personal, I appreciate your comments) and can 
understand your POV from your particular experience, but no amount of 
talk can disprove (A) repeatable test results and (B) the economics of 
efficiency. Those will stand on their own.

> I could go on singing my own praises, but my point is, the
> assessment of profitability often depends largely on where you
> decide to plant your flag.

As I said, I'm stable here, as are the laws of this universe - no 
running off disappointed or depressed, no coming back and gushing over 
it. No urge to overly defend or rationalize the last two years, nor any 
need to criticize beyond an objective measure.

My work has been consistent and steady, and in fact I've also gained 
some extra work from the LC 6 to 9 transition issues. I'm just usually 
doing my work rather than here on-list talking about it. I'd love to do 
more talking, but of the two, work must come first and often that means 
work must come only. That's why it's pretty rare for me to show up on a 
topic, but that means when I do, it's after a good deal of calculation, 
and any who assume I didn't think it through are usually disappointed. 
The facts are there and the issue has been on the back burner for a long 
time during different experiences.

But just as my work is stable, so are my ethics, my adherence to quality 
and efficient code, and my sticking to economic reality - regardless of 
trends, friends, popular corporations, and the like. Those don't change. 
There's no such thing as "I'm doing OK so inefficiency must be OK." 
Efficiency is mathematically better, therefore it's what I seek myself 
and for clients and customers, and what I promote unbashfully. Yes, 2 is 
greater than 1 in all the relevant cases in our universe and current 
system, and yes that matters! :D

My flag has always been pointed in the same place(s) for these many 
years - and this approach of doing what's morally right and 
mathematically sound, regardless of trends, has been successful despite 
challenges and changes. These are things that don't change. Better 
methods, the need for innovative approaches and new solutions, efficient 
and cost-effective code, debugging and fixing without side effects by 
following proper procedure, teaching quality methods while consulting 
and teaching for coders and projects at every stage of development or 
the lack thereof. All these are ethical, but also economically sound. I 
am unapologetic in advancing these principles; in fact I would feel 
immoral to do otherwise.

Since I am involved with a lot of projects in different areas and fairly 
often am required to deal with a portion of the "runoff" from upstream 
as well as develop solutions for current and future 3rd-party LC needs, 
I do see the bigger picture and a large portion of the effects on 
different types of users, and it makes perfect sense for me to pop up 
and intervene upstream at times if it's important enough, because that 
would be (again) more efficient than the alternative. And for the sake 
of others of course. I am a very empathetic and caring person.

But no time for singing or talking - back to quality work and curtains 
for interlude of encouraging efficiency. I advocate the benefits of 
reality, but force it on no one, and am truly thankful for all those who 
are fortunate with the status quo. :)

Apologies if any of this sounds at all snarky, because it's not intended 
as such, nor aimed personally at Bob or anyone else. Argument often 
breeds good results. I appreciate all views and don't need to promote my 
own beliefs beyond the demands of my own ethics/conscience, the logical 
points of arguments, and the balance of practical benefits. I've done my 
part for now, until there's another performance change, in which case I 
promise to fully document. Just a quick reply here to emphasize reliable 
repeatable observations with public tests, and sound principles of 
software code. Have a good day everyone and my regards to many of you 
that I haven't written off-list for a while!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 16:57:53 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 13:57:53 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <C8E8643F-2A7E-4446-81B8-4A892C13162B@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C8E8643F-2A7E-4446-81B8-4A892C13162B@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtodXcjXdnxPbP7wEVXdRC3Mr+JzWFQDGBD4FFGPg7cipA@mail.gmail.com>

Can you give me more specifics? Folding is working for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-_nLJNJvpM&feature=youtu.be

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 9:55 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Folding seems to have broken. I cannot fold or unfold but the default
> folding is in effect.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 2, 2019, at 14:17 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > As usual, you can get Navigator here
> > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab
> it
> > from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.
> <snip>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From hh at hyperhh.de  Thu Jan  3 17:55:33 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 23:55:33 +0100
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
Message-ID: <496D6368-E485-4037-86CC-CB19F1D92615@hyperhh.de>

> Geoff C. wrote:
> So you want drag and drop in the stack list to reorder the windows?
> What's the purpose? To bring a particular stack to the foreground?

What others do with the "z-index". Or what we can do with setting the
layer of card controls (no only setting the layer of a control to "top").
Stack windows can be partially transparent. So it makes sense to set
the whole layering of the windows, not only to set the front window...



From charles at techstrategies.com.au  Thu Jan  3 19:08:09 2019
From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 11:08:09 +1100
Subject: IMAP library, or support via tsNet?
In-Reply-To: <d81b20d0-88e2-c711-1656-6dbe876a2a36@cogapp.com>
References: <11C9110E-88C1-48C1-AF16-AF081D1BB6E2@madmansoft.com>
	<4C9E1B0D-74D3-40A1-A80F-BFAFDE0A1D12@appisle.net>
	<44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
	<c5320578-a0e8-ec07-7093-27215f614e9d@cogapp.com>
	<97A8D445-D7C9-4FE2-9083-47045D356D43@m-r-d.de>
	<d81b20d0-88e2-c711-1656-6dbe876a2a36@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <BE1720B6-28E8-4AED-80A5-5E23E7096650@techstrategies.com.au>

Hi Ben,

Support for IMAP was added into tsNet a while ago. There are a few lessons that I?ve added to LiveCode?s website on IMAP.

Lessons:

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/858279-how-to-use-tsnet-to-display-an-e-mail-message-from-an-imap-account

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/858974-how-to-use-tsnet-to-display-the-folders-stored-in-an-imap-account

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/860779-how-to-use-tsnet-to-delete-an-e-mail-message-from-an-imap-account

Regards,

Charles.

> On 4 Jan 2019, at 5:56 am, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Aha! I didn't even realise that there was an imap URL protocol.
> 
> Thanks Matthias, that's exactly what I needed.
> 
> best regards,
> 
> Ben
> 
>> On 03/01/2019 13:57, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Ben,
>> i just did a quick test with my local test mai server. This script for example would output the number of messages in the imap folder to the message box.
>> put tUSERNAME into pSettings["username"]
>> put put into pSettings["password"]
>> put "STATUS INBOX (MESSAGES)" into pRequest
>> put "imap://192.168.7.25" into pURL
>> put tsnetCustomSync(pURL,pRequest,xHeaders,rOutHeaders,rResult,rBytes,pSettings)
>> Did not try ssl, but should work also.
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> free tools for Livecoders:
>> https://instamaker.dermattes.de
>> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de
>>> Am 03.01.2019 um 12:17 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Is there anything in the way of an IMAP library around?
>>> 
>>> My needs are relatively simple: I want to connect to an iMAP server, recursively list folders and fetch the size of each (if necessary by fetching the size of each message)
>>> 
>>> e.g. in JavaScript with this library
>>>    https://github.com/emailjs/emailjs-imap-client
>>> I'd be using
>>>    connect()
>>>    listMailboxes()
>>>    listMessages(... ['RFC822.SIZE'])
>>>    ...
>>> 
>>> Is there a library that would support this kind of access?
>>> 
>>> Does tsNet provide anything above the basic network primitives to support this?  Some time I ago there was a tantalising hint on this list:
>>> 
>>>> On 24/08/2017 11:05, Charles Warwick via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> IMAP and POP3 support in tsNet under Linux is only available in tsNet 1.3.0+ which will be bundled with the next LC release.
>>>> All other platforms have had support for those protocols for a while.  I hope to have some documentation available in the next two weeks.
>>> 
>>> Did that ever come to fruition?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Many thanks,
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 20:54:57 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 17:54:57 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <496D6368-E485-4037-86CC-CB19F1D92615@hyperhh.de>
References: <496D6368-E485-4037-86CC-CB19F1D92615@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqAkNiTTSwymnjDuTxO7PA6KQ81x_QFB0Fw6JjSUvJHFg@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, that should be easy enough -- I just didn't see the need personally,
and it will require code that is different than the regular
drag/drop/relayering code, so I hadn't bothered.

gc

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 2:55 PM hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> > Geoff C. wrote:
> > So you want drag and drop in the stack list to reorder the windows?
> > What's the purpose? To bring a particular stack to the foreground?
>
> What others do with the "z-index". Or what we can do with setting the
> layer of card controls (no only setting the layer of a control to "top").
> Stack windows can be partially transparent. So it makes sense to set
> the whole layering of the windows, not only to set the front window...
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 21:30:45 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:30:45 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <C8E8643F-2A7E-4446-81B8-4A892C13162B@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C8E8643F-2A7E-4446-81B8-4A892C13162B@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtoN6CvFx1-c6eGJrEXY53CqNAR5ztjEGUh7rKJxwL9YVg@mail.gmail.com>

This is fixed in 7.0.2 rc1. I had a variable where I was tracking
containers that had already been "default-folded" and I wasn't setting it
properly, so every time the display refreshes, it got the default fold.

As usual, you can get Navigator here
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab it
from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 9:55 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Folding seems to have broken. I cannot fold or unfold but the default
> folding is in effect.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 2, 2019, at 14:17 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > As usual, you can get Navigator here
> > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab
> it
> > from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.
> <snip>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jan  4 01:05:26 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 22:05:26 -0800
Subject: Musings on Architect, MVC, Nested Behaviors
In-Reply-To: <9b65530a-19e4-12a7-c193-750ff097f29c@andregarzia.com>
References: <9b65530a-19e4-12a7-c193-750ff097f29c@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <a29218d5-30d9-79bb-3a38-0445ea706723@fourthworld.com>

Andre Alves Garzia wrote:

 > Be aware that YAML is tricky to parse, there are better formats such
 > as TOML which are much easier and tend to be less error prone. It is
 > very easy to get some indentation wrong in YAML and move something up
 > or down a level. TOML is IMHO a better format for such stuff.
 >
 >    YAML: http://yaml.org
 >
 >    TOML: https://github.com/toml-lang/toml
 >
 > There is also StrictYAML which removes some problematic features from
 > YAML. Anyway, I think that if all you need is something that maps to a
 > hashmap that is not too deep (thats important) then TOML is a better
 > format.

https://xkcd.com/927/


Story so far:

Assertion: XML will solve everything!
Reality:   bloated

Assertion: JSON will solve everything!
Reality:   If you happen to do everything in JavaScript

Assertion: YAML will solve everything, and be human-writable!
Reality:   Sure, but it's so hard to parse not even robots
            can do it well.

Assertion: TOML will solve everything, and be human-writable,
            and be easily parseable!
Reality:   I'm dizzy, and going to lie down. Wake me when anything
            actually solves all everything, or next Tuesday when
            the next serialization-format-du-jour is premiered as
            the thing that will solve everything, so we can all
            enjoy throwing away this week's code for a week with
            the new kid on the block until next week's kid on the
            block shows up.

:)

The longer I've been in this business the more comfortable I've become 
defining my own purpose-build formats as needed.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jan  4 01:40:26 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 22:40:26 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
References: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>

Read through this whole thread, optimistic that I'd find the list of 
things that differentiate v6 and v9 so we can hone in on actual solutions.

I learned two things:

  - lock/unlock changed

  - It's apparently easier to write a thousands of words philosophizing
    about how a small team of C++ programmers should provide a uniform
    scripting interface for a nearly unprecedented number of OSes,
    stay on top of ongoing API changes in every one of those OSes,
    multiply features, fix bugs, incorporate Unicode, maintain or improve
    all aspects of performance, and keep the joint running than it is to
    even briefly summarize concerns about any of the above.

Is there an actual list of concrete concerns here that the team may be 
able to take action on or at least explain how/why the change exists, or 
did I just spend an hour reading that I'll never get back?

I feel rickrolled.


I've worked with too many people moving from Drupal 7 to Drupal 8, or 
Python 2 to 3, or any version of Apple's C headers in the '90s that 
broke declarations quarterly, or HyperCard 2 to 3, to get too 
out-of-breath about undoing workarounds in old code to work 
with-the-grain for v9's enhancements and fixes for long-standing 
anomalies.  When I describe LC's high priority for backward 
compatibility to nearly any other experienced dev I know, they look at 
me like I'm high and spouting tales of dancing ponies; many professional 
development systems consider backward compatibility a very minor 
nice-to-have, if they devote time to it at all. Many of us here buy 
computers from a hardware vendor with a similar view.

As for performance, in threads with Geoff Canyon, Mark Talutto, and 
others who provided real-world use cases and metrics, we do see some 
performance degradation in v9 from v6 in some cases, a surprising amount 
on par given how relatively little work v6 had to do under the hood with 
encodings and types, a few things a wee bit faster, and overall such a 
strong comeback from the v7 series that it should be clear to those 
earnestly following along that the team has indeed been quite evidently 
working on performance, and delivering improvements over the v9 cycle.

Then again, my work may not touch the items on the concern list.  I 
can't know, because I couldn't find such a list in this long thread.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 02:37:49 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 23:37:49 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
References: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
	<7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtoc-8PiDOWd93oxMw8QkDCHVypnD_X5Wm_Qg2MZcpSxbA@mail.gmail.com>

I wasn't sure what people were talking about with lock screen performance
issues, so I did a simple test: I set up a button to either lock the screen
once, or twice, and then timed setting the loc of the button while the
screen was locked. I didn't time locking the screen; just the movement
while locked. As I hoped, I didn't find any difference between locking once
or twice, either in 6.7.3, or in 9.0.1 (on an up-to-date Mac).

But...

There was a significant performance difference between 6.7.3 and 9.0.1.
*Maybe* this is Unicode related? In any case, this script takes about 0.04
seconds in 6.7.3, and 0.24 seconds in 9.0.1:

on mouseUp
   put the loc of me into L1
   put L1 into L2
   lock screen
   put the long seconds into T
   repeat 100000
      set the loc of me to L2
      set the loc of me to L1
   end repeat
   put the long seconds - T into T
   unlock screen
   put T
end mouseUp

Then I noticed that I had forgotten one line of code. I changed it to this:

on mouseUp
   put the loc of me into L1
   put L1 into L2
   add 100 to item 1 of L2
   lock screen
   put the long seconds into T
   repeat 100000
      set the loc of me to L2
      set the loc of me to L1
   end repeat
   put the long seconds - T into T
   unlock screen
   put T
end mouseUp

...and found that in 6.7.3 that change increased the duration to about 1.25
seconds -- a performance hit of about 30x just because a locked-screen
button is actually moving. In 9.0.1, the time changed to about 0.35
seconds. So if the button *isn't* moving, 6.7.3 is much faster, but in the
more practical and likely case that the button *is* moving, 9.0.1 is
faster. So ?\_(?)_/?


On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:03 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Read through this whole thread, optimistic that I'd find the list of
> things that differentiate v6 and v9 so we can hone in on actual solutions.
>
> I learned two things:
>
>   - lock/unlock changed
>
>   - It's apparently easier to write a thousands of words philosophizing
>     about how a small team of C++ programmers should provide a uniform
>     scripting interface for a nearly unprecedented number of OSes,
>     stay on top of ongoing API changes in every one of those OSes,
>     multiply features, fix bugs, incorporate Unicode, maintain or improve
>     all aspects of performance, and keep the joint running than it is to
>     even briefly summarize concerns about any of the above.
>
> Is there an actual list of concrete concerns here that the team may be
> able to take action on or at least explain how/why the change exists, or
> did I just spend an hour reading that I'll never get back?
>
> I feel rickrolled.
>
>
> I've worked with too many people moving from Drupal 7 to Drupal 8, or
> Python 2 to 3, or any version of Apple's C headers in the '90s that
> broke declarations quarterly, or HyperCard 2 to 3, to get too
> out-of-breath about undoing workarounds in old code to work
> with-the-grain for v9's enhancements and fixes for long-standing
> anomalies.  When I describe LC's high priority for backward
> compatibility to nearly any other experienced dev I know, they look at
> me like I'm high and spouting tales of dancing ponies; many professional
> development systems consider backward compatibility a very minor
> nice-to-have, if they devote time to it at all. Many of us here buy
> computers from a hardware vendor with a similar view.
>
> As for performance, in threads with Geoff Canyon, Mark Talutto, and
> others who provided real-world use cases and metrics, we do see some
> performance degradation in v9 from v6 in some cases, a surprising amount
> on par given how relatively little work v6 had to do under the hood with
> encodings and types, a few things a wee bit faster, and overall such a
> strong comeback from the v7 series that it should be clear to those
> earnestly following along that the team has indeed been quite evidently
> working on performance, and delivering improvements over the v9 cycle.
>
> Then again, my work may not touch the items on the concern list.  I
> can't know, because I couldn't find such a list in this long thread.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jan  4 02:56:04 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 23:56:04 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtoc-8PiDOWd93oxMw8QkDCHVypnD_X5Wm_Qg2MZcpSxbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtoc-8PiDOWd93oxMw8QkDCHVypnD_X5Wm_Qg2MZcpSxbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <556ed429-2534-4c9a-3697-a819f65209b8@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

 > I wasn't sure what people were talking about with lock screen
 > performance issues, so I did a simple test
...
 > ...and found that in 6.7.3 that change increased the duration to about
 > 1.25 seconds -- a performance hit of about 30x just because a locked-
 > screen button is actually moving. In 9.0.1, the time changed to about
 > 0.35 seconds. So if the button *isn't* moving, 6.7.3 is much faster,
 > but in the more practical and likely case that the button *is* moving,
 > 9.0.1 is faster. So ?\_(?)_/?

That seems a good balance of priorities by use case.  After all, when 
nothing's moving the wait time may not even be noticeable, but with 
moving objects performance can be critical.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 03:03:24 2019
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 19:03:24 +1100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
References: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
	<7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kjc6QSJF4WtjN2yZmrZur6KT+jsc3XZgV3QD0CkdLaH0A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 6:03 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is there an actual list of concrete concerns here that the team may be
> able to take action on ...

I think the closest would be:

>Malte wrote:
>Not yet fixable for me:
>Array operations on larger data sets still slower than they were

Which leads me to the post titled: On Performance of Array Access
posted 31 Aug 2018 relating specifically to large array data sets.

>The wise Mark Wa (on a 2018MBP) wrote:
>Generally, I don't tend to like to 'jump the gun' on anything related to
>optimization lest it is not what it seems when running in the real world
>but...

His scripts used for the tests are all public, repeatable and
objective, but if you don't want to bother finding that Post here are
the results  (PR6671 refers to a GitHub Pull Request into the LC9
engine)

>LC6.7.11: 1117ms
>LC9.0.1:  4020ms
>PR6671: 1017ms

>6.7.11: 1055ms
>9.0.1:  3281ms
>PR6671: 497ms

>6.7.11: 16872ms
>9.0.1:  8305ms
>PR6671: 4315ms

>6.7.11: 16508ms
>9.0.1:  6397ms
>PR6671: 3001ms

>REAL WORLD CASE

>Now, I'm always a little skeptical about using synthetic benchmarks for
>performance. However, both of the above are actually real-world
>examples. Furthermore, when running a rather large LCS project on an
>engine with PR6671, I got a 2x speed up - one particular input took
>3mins to process, rather than 6mins (one phase of processing actually
>saw a 5x speed up!).

So what I can't confirm is whether PR6671 has been implemented into a
current version of LC9, but what I will say is this, if it hasn't then
Malte can look forward to an eventual speed improvement in large Array
operations as Mark Wa has already identified this problem and is
working on a fix.  If it has been implemented then Malte needs to take
a look at Mark Wa examples and see where he can use some of Mark Wa's
good code to replace his own poorly performing code.

How this thread diverged from a problem that was clearly resolved by
fixing poor code, to, what seems to me, 'our poor code should run just
as fast in LC9 as LC5', I don't know. Sorry.



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Jan  4 03:42:01 2019
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:42:01 +0100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
References: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
	<7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <89b837452a3fdf850403405dd3b26280@livecode.com>

On 2019-01-04 07:40, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> Read through this whole thread, optimistic that I'd find the list of
> things that differentiate v6 and v9 so we can hone in on actual
> solutions.
> 
> I learned two things:
> 
>  - lock/unlock changed

Except it hasn't - lock/unlock screen work the same as they always have 
- they nest.

Differences since 5 however, include:

   - rendering was changed to use Skia
   - support for Retina displays was added (4x as many pixels to render 
on more modern Macs)
   - screen updates only happen once per command execution and only if 
necessary (if the screen is unlocked)

As suggested in another post, I suspect Malte's speed difference was 
actually caused by over-unlocking (or interaction with a slightly wrong 
IDE script in the 5 IDE - assuming he was timing in the IDE) and the 
fact that Retina macs have 4x as many pixels to render (5.x did not do 
Retina resolution). Of course, the latter is making the assumption that 
Malte has a Retina mac...

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Jan  4 03:57:27 2019
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:57:27 +0100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kjc6QSJF4WtjN2yZmrZur6KT+jsc3XZgV3QD0CkdLaH0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
	<7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
	<CA+uh5kjc6QSJF4WtjN2yZmrZur6KT+jsc3XZgV3QD0CkdLaH0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ff24b4a1973d5b9dca49bd1b98a76df@livecode.com>

On 2019-01-04 09:03, Kay C Lan via use-livecode wrote:
> So what I can't confirm is whether PR6671 has been implemented into a
> current version of LC9, but what I will say is this, if it hasn't then
> Malte can look forward to an eventual speed improvement in large Array
> operations as Mark Wa has already identified this problem and is
> working on a fix.  If it has been implemented then Malte needs to take
> a look at Mark Wa examples and see where he can use some of Mark Wa's
> good code to replace his own poorly performing code.

It hasn't as yet - that PR 
(https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6671) has actually turned 
into a mini-grab bag of things which need to be separated out slightly:

   - reduction of memory usage of the 'handle' structures used to hold 
values (particularly on 64-bit)
   - faster processing of integer index access in arrays
   - faster short-path array access (both storing and fetching)
   - 'static' switch optimization (switches with all literal cases are 
now constant time and not linear in the number of cases)
   - params(<n>[, <m>) which returns an numeric array of parameters <n> 
up to <m>
   - sequence and array literals
   - a try(expr, error-expr) function (evaluates error-expr as the result 
if expr throws)
   - array meta-indexing (tArray[first], tArray[last], tArray[next])

The only one which is unlikely to survive is the meta-indexing as (1) 
they don't quite work correctly and (2) Monte had a better suggestion 
which I've not had a chance to implement.

It also contains benchmarks derived from my talk at LCG on optimization, 
and Curry's which he posted a while back.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri Jan  4 05:14:23 2019
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 10:14:23 -0000
Subject: IMAP library, or support via tsNet?
In-Reply-To: <BE1720B6-28E8-4AED-80A5-5E23E7096650@techstrategies.com.au>
References: <11C9110E-88C1-48C1-AF16-AF081D1BB6E2@madmansoft.com>
	<4C9E1B0D-74D3-40A1-A80F-BFAFDE0A1D12@appisle.net>
	<44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
	<c5320578-a0e8-ec07-7093-27215f614e9d@cogapp.com>
	<97A8D445-D7C9-4FE2-9083-47045D356D43@m-r-d.de>
	<d81b20d0-88e2-c711-1656-6dbe876a2a36@cogapp.com>
	<BE1720B6-28E8-4AED-80A5-5E23E7096650@techstrategies.com.au>
Message-ID: <e2dcaf64-52d7-3012-26e2-e948a72c3a89@cogapp.com>

That's great, thank you Charles.

Ben

On 04/01/2019 00:08, Charles Warwick via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> 
> Support for IMAP was added into tsNet a while ago. There are a few lessons that I?ve added to LiveCode?s website on IMAP.
> 
> Lessons:
> 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/858279-how-to-use-tsnet-to-display-an-e-mail-message-from-an-imap-account
> 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/858974-how-to-use-tsnet-to-display-the-folders-stored-in-an-imap-account
> 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/860779-how-to-use-tsnet-to-delete-an-e-mail-message-from-an-imap-account
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Charles.
> 
>> On 4 Jan 2019, at 5:56 am, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Aha! I didn't even realise that there was an imap URL protocol.
>>
>> Thanks Matthias, that's exactly what I needed.
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>> On 03/01/2019 13:57, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Ben,
>>> i just did a quick test with my local test mai server. This script for example would output the number of messages in the imap folder to the message box.
>>> put tUSERNAME into pSettings["username"]
>>> put put into pSettings["password"]
>>> put "STATUS INBOX (MESSAGES)" into pRequest
>>> put "imap://192.168.7.25" into pURL
>>> put tsnetCustomSync(pURL,pRequest,xHeaders,rOutHeaders,rResult,rBytes,pSettings)
>>> Did not try ssl, but should work also.
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthias
>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>> free tools for Livecoders:
>>> https://instamaker.dermattes.de
>>> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de
>>>> Am 03.01.2019 um 12:17 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>
>>>> Is there anything in the way of an IMAP library around?
>>>>
>>>> My needs are relatively simple: I want to connect to an iMAP server, recursively list folders and fetch the size of each (if necessary by fetching the size of each message)
>>>>
>>>> e.g. in JavaScript with this library
>>>>     https://github.com/emailjs/emailjs-imap-client
>>>> I'd be using
>>>>     connect()
>>>>     listMailboxes()
>>>>     listMessages(... ['RFC822.SIZE'])
>>>>     ...
>>>>
>>>> Is there a library that would support this kind of access?
>>>>
>>>> Does tsNet provide anything above the basic network primitives to support this?  Some time I ago there was a tantalising hint on this list:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24/08/2017 11:05, Charles Warwick via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> IMAP and POP3 support in tsNet under Linux is only available in tsNet 1.3.0+ which will be bundled with the next LC release.
>>>>> All other platforms have had support for those protocols for a while.  I hope to have some documentation available in the next two weeks.
>>>>
>>>> Did that ever come to fruition?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From revolution at derbrill.de  Fri Jan  4 06:40:53 2019
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Pfaff-Brill)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:40:53 +0100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x 
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1546599602.27056.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546599602.27056.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D5063955-9EF4-450C-B359-651488235A9B@derbrill.de>

>  Of course, the latter is making the assumption that 
> Malte has a Retina mac...
Indeed he has (now and did not back in the days where the app was written)


Actually I did not expect this thread to turn into philosophical discussions. What I was searching for was input on gotchas you guys and girls may have experienced when moving from the monolith engine to the refactored one., so that I would get an idea on what to look out for when continuing to refactor my old project(s). 

I was aware of the unicode related changes and am trying to remove all the stuff that has been deprecated (like charToNum, useUnicode, and the like). That is pretty well documented and understandable. Marks explanation on my redrawing issues are explanations that are understandable, make sense and I am aware now. The ?fun? part is, that something like this will never be able to be caught by unit tests or simple example stacks. One will need real world projects of a certain size to see the effect. To put things into perspective here, the app I am refactoring has to draw/redraw about 1500 controls, of which only a couple are changing positions / get a new label etc. Retina quite surely is a factor here. Also settings for ?accelerated rendering? might play a role.

While I applaud Currys effort to set up real world benchmarking stacks to compare between engines, I lack the self confidence to be convinced to write perfect code. I surely do not, especially if like in my case the number of lines of code go into the 10 thousands. I *try* to avoid redundancy . Most of the time I succeed and if I do find areas that are redundant, I refactor. The engine got a long way here. Behaviors, and nested behaviours (this me anyone?) are a very good example on how the engine matured over the years. I would not dare to expect that code written 10 years ago for an engine that was current 10 years ago is still useable without optimisations. I just have been away for too long to be able to know what to look out for.

I am indem looking forward to the array optimisations to come, as once that is off the table I am looking forward to actually having something that will be much faster than I had it in previous versions.

Cheers,

Malte



From nabble at mad.pink  Fri Jan  4 08:05:42 2019
From: nabble at mad.pink (pink)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 07:05:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1546607142359-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

I love this plugin... one of my top 3 favorites

Here's my wishlist:

1.  One thing I would love to do is assign different commands to the
"Command Bars", I've been going through the source code and haven't figured
out where this happens...

2.  Another feature request would be to assign a different color for groups
(and folded group contents)

3.  it seems as though all controls in a card are being indented... was it
always like that?

4.  it would be nice if there were an easier way to clean up the List
Display String list... as far as I can tell the only way is to manually edit
the prefs file





-----
---
Greg (pink) Miller
mad, pink and dangerous to code
--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Jan  4 12:28:51 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 11:28:51 -0600
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG_ZJO5Bs-QA+OG+1cc-8HA8DCuFZhxk6jspnH7A=28foQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG_ZJO5Bs-QA+OG+1cc-8HA8DCuFZhxk6jspnH7A=28foQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG9edyM6MT9Zk7si52bnFqorJ=u=H=w6L_yoexRWYEBw1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:55 PM Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
wrote:

>
> Over the holiday break I took time to package up some UI controls I use in
> my own projects and make them available as helpers for Levure apps*. The
> controls are named "DataView" and "DataView Tree". The DataView is a
> leaner, more efficient DataGrid Form. It allows you to efficiently display
> highly customized rows of data on desktop and mobile. The DataGrid Tree is
> built on top of the DataView and works with a tree structure.
>

I've added another DataView helper named "DataView Database Cursor Helper"
and updated the demo app. This helper adds a `dvCursor` property to a
DataView along with a number of other properties. You open a database
cursor, assign it to the DataView, and then the DataView will automatically
move through the cursor in order to display the rows the user is currently
looking at. Fast and efficient, even for large result sets.

Demo: https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo

DataView Database Cursor Helper:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-database_dbcursor

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Jan  4 12:54:13 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:54:13 -0500
Subject: file: vs bibfile: usage?
Message-ID: <c7c6dacc-4e63-033a-9d2c-7e767c6eae6e@researchware.com>

I have seen example in the dictionary, for example in the LC901 
Dictionary under "textEncode" entry, where LC9 text (in a field or 
variable) is encoded as UTF-8 and written to a file as:

puttextEncode(tSomeText,"UTF-8") intoURL ("file:"&tSomeFile)

However, my understanding is the the "file:" identifier tries to do 
"intelligent" line ending translation for the platform LC is running on. 
So in order to produce true UTF8 platform independent output, the 
examples should be

puttextEncode(tSomeText,"UTF-8") intoURL ("binfile:"&tSomeFile)

In other words, should not the rule be that when outputting anything 
other than "native" text (MacRoman (OSX) or Latin-1 (Win) or ISO for 
Linux), should it always be written a "binfile:" (i.e binary) so the 
coding is not changed?

Does any LC expert know the answer to this?





From brian at milby7.com  Fri Jan  4 13:07:38 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:07:38 -0600
Subject: file: vs bibfile: usage?
In-Reply-To: <c7c6dacc-4e63-033a-9d2c-7e767c6eae6e@researchware.com>
References: <c7c6dacc-4e63-033a-9d2c-7e767c6eae6e@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <c8256a09-39f1-4ba7-a3d8-0f02314f3592@Spark>

On a Mac you have to use binfile if you want the appropriate line endings (LF)* as file will change them to the legacy version (CR). ?On Windows, you probably still want to use file so that the line endings are adjusted to CRLF. ?UTF recognizes both as valid (CRLF and LF), not sure about CR.

* I use Xcode as my justification to say that LF is proper. ?It is the line ending used there.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 4, 2019, 11:54 AM -0600, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I have seen example in the dictionary, for example in the LC901
> Dictionary under "textEncode" entry, where LC9 text (in a field or
> variable) is encoded as UTF-8 and written to a file as:
>
> puttextEncode(tSomeText,"UTF-8") intoURL ("file:"&tSomeFile)
>
> However, my understanding is the the "file:" identifier tries to do
> "intelligent" line ending translation for the platform LC is running on.
> So in order to produce true UTF8 platform independent output, the
> examples should be
>
> puttextEncode(tSomeText,"UTF-8") intoURL ("binfile:"&tSomeFile)
>
> In other words, should not the rule be that when outputting anything
> other than "native" text (MacRoman (OSX) or Latin-1 (Win) or ISO for
> Linux), should it always be written a "binfile:" (i.e binary) so the
> coding is not changed?
>
> Does any LC expert know the answer to this?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jjs at krutt.org  Fri Jan  4 12:12:45 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 18:12:45 +0100
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG9edyM6MT9Zk7si52bnFqorJ=u=H=w6L_yoexRWYEBw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG_ZJO5Bs-QA+OG+1cc-8HA8DCuFZhxk6jspnH7A=28foQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9edyM6MT9Zk7si52bnFqorJ=u=H=w6L_yoexRWYEBw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53e07a67-3805-311a-3c6c-0b7b5e1e8d35@krutt.org>

Curious about some things.

Can this dataview do the same things as the datagrid?

Like Form with images and fields on a row via row template or similar?

Does it has scroller for mobile? or has it to be created like with DG1 
and other groups?


 ?l hesitate on using a lot of 3rd party tools, support could be stopped 
anytime, and if you then depend on it...

We already depend on LC.

Like i like to give levure a try, but also hesitate, can i turn back to 
the "normal" way of building an app?

Thanks.

Op 4-1-2019 om 18:28 schreef Trevor DeVore via use-livecode:
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:55 PM Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Over the holiday break I took time to package up some UI controls I use in
>> my own projects and make them available as helpers for Levure apps*. The
>> controls are named "DataView" and "DataView Tree". The DataView is a
>> leaner, more efficient DataGrid Form. It allows you to efficiently display
>> highly customized rows of data on desktop and mobile. The DataGrid Tree is
>> built on top of the DataView and works with a tree structure.
>>
> I've added another DataView helper named "DataView Database Cursor Helper"
> and updated the demo app. This helper adds a `dvCursor` property to a
> DataView along with a number of other properties. You open a database
> cursor, assign it to the DataView, and then the DataView will automatically
> move through the cursor in order to display the rows the user is currently
> looking at. Fast and efficient, even for large result sets.
>
> Demo: https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo
>
> DataView Database Cursor Helper:
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-database_dbcursor
>



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Fri Jan  4 13:17:47 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 10:17:47 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <D5063955-9EF4-450C-B359-651488235A9B@derbrill.de>
References: <mailman.1.1546599602.27056.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<D5063955-9EF4-450C-B359-651488235A9B@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <8cea1877-c60a-9880-db4e-b08272688663@sonic.net>

On 1/4/19 3:40 AM, Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode wrote:

> Actually I did not expect this thread to turn into philosophical discussions. What I was searching for was input on gotchas you guys and girls may have experienced when moving from the monolith engine to the refactored one., so that I would get an idea on what to look out for when continuing to refactor my old project(s).

Here's one that bit me:

In LC 8 dp15 a change was made to tab controls: they are now 
transparent, even if you set a background color and make them opaque, 
but *only on Mac OS*. My workaround is to set an opaque rectangle behind 
the tab controls. It's not in the release notes.

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17219

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 13:35:22 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 10:35:22 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <1546607142359-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546607142359-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>

Answers inline:

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 5:06 AM pink via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I love this plugin... one of my top 3 favorites
>
> Here's my wishlist:
>
> 1.  One thing I would love to do is assign different commands to the
> "Command Bars", I've been going through the source code and haven't figured
> out where this happens...
>

I obviously need to do better here: just right-click/control-click a
command bar. The pop-up menu lets you select any existing command to assign
to that command bar. You can create new named commands by selecting New
Command... at the top of the menu. Note: I just now noticed that you have
to have at least one control selected for this to work. I'll fix that in an
update.


>
> 2.  Another feature request would be to assign a different color for groups
> (and folded group contents)
>

I thought about this, but I thought the overall "color things based on
whether they have a script/behavior" was more important, but I'll take a
look and see how tough this would be to work in.

>
> 3.  it seems as though all controls in a card are being indented... was it
> always like that?
>

Good eye -- no, they weren't before, but I added that additional level of
indent because of allowing multiple targets. It would be easy enough to
undo depending on the consensus opinion.

>
> 4.  it would be nice if there were an easier way to clean up the List
> Display String list... as far as I can tell the only way is to manually
> edit
> the prefs file
>

Definitely agreed, it was just the lack of/need for interface inspiration
and a desire to work on something else/laziness. But yes, editing the prefs
is the only way at present to clean up the list display list.

>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> ---
> Greg (pink) Miller
> mad, pink and dangerous to code
> --
> Sent from:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Jan  4 13:51:15 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:51:15 -0600
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers
In-Reply-To: <53e07a67-3805-311a-3c6c-0b7b5e1e8d35@krutt.org>
References: <CAHg3tG_ZJO5Bs-QA+OG+1cc-8HA8DCuFZhxk6jspnH7A=28foQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9edyM6MT9Zk7si52bnFqorJ=u=H=w6L_yoexRWYEBw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<53e07a67-3805-311a-3c6c-0b7b5e1e8d35@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG90tVp9K5N7oPe3hmZahz_e5RTcBtMJEOoNk2njUCu12Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 12:12 PM JJS via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Curious about some things.

Can this dataview do the same things as the datagrid?
>
> Like Form with images and fields on a row via row template or similar?
>

Yes. Row templates use the same concept as DataGrids.


> Does it has scroller for mobile? or has it to be created like with DG1
> and other groups?
>

The scroller for mobile is built in. You can see the code in the
`preOpenControl` message:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/blob/master/dataview_behavior.livecodescript#L68


>   l hesitate on using a lot of 3rd party tools, support could be stopped
> anytime, and if you then depend on it...
>
> We already depend on LC.
>

That is a valid concern and one that I share myself. The tools that I
release are open source and there is no official support for them. Given my
responsibilities at my company I have chosen not to sell or officially
support contributions I make available to the LiveCode community. I do,
however, want to contribute non-proprietary work I do to the community so
that we can all make better apps. I have chosen to do that through making
the code available on GitHub and using the MIT license. I also try to
document them as best as I can given the time I have available. Everyone
has full access to the source code and others can contribute to the source
code. For example, three other people have contributed to Levure besides
myself. They contribute by helping with docs, submitting code updates, and
reporting issues. You can see the list of contributors here:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/graphs/contributors


> Like i like to give levure a try, but also hesitate, can i turn back to
> the "normal" way of building an app?
>

You can always go back to how you were developing your apps previously. How
much "unwinding" would need to be done depends on how many changes you make
to your app in order to adopt everything that Levure has to offer.

Regarding what is "normal" ? Outside of apps that only use a handful of
stack files, I honestly don't know that there is a "normal" way of building
an app in LiveCode. I have seen a lot of different organizational
approaches over the years. Since LiveCode doesn't have a "project" concept
it seems that everyone tries to create their own version of what a project
should be. At least with Levure you are using a well-documented system
whose source code is available and that is at least being used by some
other people.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
CTO - ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Jan  4 15:54:53 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 15:54:53 -0500
Subject: Is anyone doing multiple window management under Windows 10...
Message-ID: <297f5add-389f-203c-1c0b-5113b1035b82@researchware.com>

I am trying to generate some interest in getting this bug: 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16305

fixed for the next release of LiveCode. The 'effective' keyword for 
stack rectangles still thinks Windows 10 has 8px borders! (when they are 
1px)

When this bug was submitted Windows 10 was sort of new, but by now I 
would have expected it to be fixed, but it is still present in LC9.0.2

If you would also like this fixed, please add yourself to the CC list on 
the bug report.

Thank you




From jjs at krutt.org  Fri Jan  4 15:05:08 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 21:05:08 +0100
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG90tVp9K5N7oPe3hmZahz_e5RTcBtMJEOoNk2njUCu12Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG_ZJO5Bs-QA+OG+1cc-8HA8DCuFZhxk6jspnH7A=28foQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9edyM6MT9Zk7si52bnFqorJ=u=H=w6L_yoexRWYEBw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<53e07a67-3805-311a-3c6c-0b7b5e1e8d35@krutt.org>
	<CAHg3tG90tVp9K5N7oPe3hmZahz_e5RTcBtMJEOoNk2njUCu12Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1b2b06b1-5741-ffe0-9c8c-0cafdbc67763@krutt.org>

Thanks very much for your clear reply Trevor.

And i'd like to thank you for your great contributions.

Given the fact we can always "roll back" , i can give it a try on a 
project and see how it goes.

I was especially interested in the Dataview as perhaps it is faster and 
may scroll smoother than the DG2.

Have a good weekend !

(and who knows Levure might be adopted by LC to add as an optional way 
of working)

Op 4-1-2019 om 19:51 schreef Trevor DeVore via use-livecode:
> On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 12:12 PM JJS via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Curious about some things.
> Can this dataview do the same things as the datagrid?
>> Like Form with images and fields on a row via row template or similar?
>>
> Yes. Row templates use the same concept as DataGrids.
>
>
>> Does it has scroller for mobile? or has it to be created like with DG1
>> and other groups?
>>
> The scroller for mobile is built in. You can see the code in the
> `preOpenControl` message:
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/blob/master/dataview_behavior.livecodescript#L68
>
>
>>    l hesitate on using a lot of 3rd party tools, support could be stopped
>> anytime, and if you then depend on it...
>>
>> We already depend on LC.
>>
> That is a valid concern and one that I share myself. The tools that I
> release are open source and there is no official support for them. Given my
> responsibilities at my company I have chosen not to sell or officially
> support contributions I make available to the LiveCode community. I do,
> however, want to contribute non-proprietary work I do to the community so
> that we can all make better apps. I have chosen to do that through making
> the code available on GitHub and using the MIT license. I also try to
> document them as best as I can given the time I have available. Everyone
> has full access to the source code and others can contribute to the source
> code. For example, three other people have contributed to Levure besides
> myself. They contribute by helping with docs, submitting code updates, and
> reporting issues. You can see the list of contributors here:
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/graphs/contributors
>
>
>> Like i like to give levure a try, but also hesitate, can i turn back to
>> the "normal" way of building an app?
>>
> You can always go back to how you were developing your apps previously. How
> much "unwinding" would need to be done depends on how many changes you make
> to your app in order to adopt everything that Levure has to offer.
>
> Regarding what is "normal" ? Outside of apps that only use a handful of
> stack files, I honestly don't know that there is a "normal" way of building
> an app in LiveCode. I have seen a lot of different organizational
> approaches over the years. Since LiveCode doesn't have a "project" concept
> it seems that everyone tries to create their own version of what a project
> should be. At least with Levure you are using a well-documented system
> whose source code is available and that is at least being used by some
> other people.
>
> Let me know if you have any further questions.
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Jan  4 16:49:29 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 15:49:29 -0600
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers
In-Reply-To: <1b2b06b1-5741-ffe0-9c8c-0cafdbc67763@krutt.org>
References: <CAHg3tG_ZJO5Bs-QA+OG+1cc-8HA8DCuFZhxk6jspnH7A=28foQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9edyM6MT9Zk7si52bnFqorJ=u=H=w6L_yoexRWYEBw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<53e07a67-3805-311a-3c6c-0b7b5e1e8d35@krutt.org>
	<CAHg3tG90tVp9K5N7oPe3hmZahz_e5RTcBtMJEOoNk2njUCu12Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b2b06b1-5741-ffe0-9c8c-0cafdbc67763@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG_HF0OuE6bxhcJX7SAGwuHyZJM9azi5MMaGAFoge1Srcg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 3:05 PM JJS via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks very much for your clear reply Trevor.
>
> And i'd like to thank you for your great contributions.
>

You are welcome.


> Given the fact we can always "roll back" , i can give it a try on a
> project and see how it goes.
>
> I was especially interested in the Dataview as perhaps it is faster and
> may scroll smoother than the DG2.
>

I haven't done any comparison tests myself. I would be interested to hear
how it goes. LiveCode still needs to add a new feature that will improve
scrolling speed in any DG-like control. I don't know what the timeline is
for that though.


> (and who knows Levure might be adopted by LC to add as an optional way
> of working)


LiveCode already recommends it to development teams. See this page on their
website:

https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/levure/

-- 
Trevor DeVore
CTO - ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri Jan  4 17:42:11 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 17:42:11 -0500
Subject: Is anyone doing multiple window management under Windows 10...
In-Reply-To: <297f5add-389f-203c-1c0b-5113b1035b82@researchware.com>
References: <297f5add-389f-203c-1c0b-5113b1035b82@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKYz=XDtS8oqUYOYC_22OigNpbrFf1cjfA4zEvNxAL+yw@mail.gmail.com>

done.

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 3:55 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am trying to generate some interest in getting this bug:
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16305
>
> fixed for the next release of LiveCode. The 'effective' keyword for
> stack rectangles still thinks Windows 10 has 8px borders! (when they are
> 1px)
>
> When this bug was submitted Windows 10 was sort of new, but by now I
> would have expected it to be fixed, but it is still present in LC9.0.2
>
> If you would also like this fixed, please add yourself to the CC list on
> the bug report.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan  4 18:13:37 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 23:13:37 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
References: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
	<7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C41D5592-9966-412D-9458-7277F7FEDE5A@iotecdigital.com>

+1

I'm just elated I can write apps again after such a long drought from Hypercard, and the disappointment I had with Supercard. I personally think LC is what Hypercard should ALWAYS have been, or would have become had Apple had kept it up, or had someone else taken it up. Now I do not develop in Windows or Linux, so there may be/have been some real concerns there. Still, what we can do, what many of us have done is nothing short of breathtaking. My service manager who was rolling his eyes when I told him what I was going to do with Forms Generator is now tickled pink that we can generate forms on demand, on site, that look professional. That app had a lot to do with my present status in the company. I took the job as a copier installer. I'm now the Systems Administrator for the entire comany, and they are training me for Pre-Sales Software Consultation and support. 

I just finished a little utility that takes accounting data export from Toshiba copiers and adds up the color and black totals that make some kind of sense (the export file decidedly does NOT make sense) in a great looking interface, and then outputs a PDF report, or a tab delimited txt file for use in Excel. The customer I wrote it for initially had his doubts about our company, but after I sent him that little gem he LOVES us. So does his accounting department who no longer has to cobble all the data together themselves. 

The time it took to do all this would have been unthinkable in a C derivative or in a Java based environment. Never mind all the new features and updates I've been adding all along. Some may think I'm overstating my case, but I think Livecode stands alone in development environments for speedy development and ease of use. 

Bob S



> On Jan 3, 2019, at 22:40 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Read through this whole thread, optimistic that I'd find the list of things that differentiate v6 and v9 so we can hone in on actual solutions.
> 
> I learned two things:
> 
> - lock/unlock changed
> 
> - It's apparently easier to write a thousands of words philosophizing
>   about how a small team of C++ programmers should provide a uniform
>   scripting interface for a nearly unprecedented number of OSes,
>   stay on top of ongoing API changes in every one of those OSes,
>   multiply features, fix bugs, incorporate Unicode, maintain or improve
>   all aspects of performance, and keep the joint running than it is to
>   even briefly summarize concerns about any of the above.
> 
> Is there an actual list of concrete concerns here that the team may be able to take action on or at least explain how/why the change exists, or did I just spend an hour reading that I'll never get back?
> 
> I feel rickrolled.
> 
> 
> I've worked with too many people moving from Drupal 7 to Drupal 8, or Python 2 to 3, or any version of Apple's C headers in the '90s that broke declarations quarterly, or HyperCard 2 to 3, to get too out-of-breath about undoing workarounds in old code to work with-the-grain for v9's enhancements and fixes for long-standing anomalies.  When I describe LC's high priority for backward compatibility to nearly any other experienced dev I know, they look at me like I'm high and spouting tales of dancing ponies; many professional development systems consider backward compatibility a very minor nice-to-have, if they devote time to it at all. Many of us here buy computers from a hardware vendor with a similar view.
> 
> As for performance, in threads with Geoff Canyon, Mark Talutto, and others who provided real-world use cases and metrics, we do see some performance degradation in v9 from v6 in some cases, a surprising amount on par given how relatively little work v6 had to do under the hood with encodings and types, a few things a wee bit faster, and overall such a strong comeback from the v7 series that it should be clear to those earnestly following along that the team has indeed been quite evidently working on performance, and delivering improvements over the v9 cycle.
> 
> Then again, my work may not touch the items on the concern list.  I can't know, because I couldn't find such a list in this long thread.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan  4 18:27:12 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 23:27:12 +0000
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546607142359-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <694C9B6B-6891-480F-9476-D3AB85276C8E@iotecdigital.com>

I have noted over the years that when designing graphics, lots of different colors is confusing to the mind. Everytime something changes, whether in a typeset layout with pictures and graphics, or in a user interface, the mind stops and asks, "Why is that?" If it asks too many times or too often, the mind gets frustrated, and it takes away from the thing you want the user to actually be focused on. 

The way Navigator works now is quite nice. More and different colors and my poor mind might wince. :-)

Bob S


> On Jan 4, 2019, at 10:35 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 2.  Another feature request would be to assign a different color for groups
>> (and folded group contents)
>> 
> 
> I thought about this, but I thought the overall "color things based on
> whether they have a script/behavior" was more important, but I'll take a
> look and see how tough this would be to work in.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan  4 18:29:22 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 23:29:22 +0000
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546607142359-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <632E625B-9987-436D-AC1A-05081FD76397@iotecdigital.com>

I say NAY! I like the way it indents now. I'm surprised the interface doesn't list every card, each indented, with all it's own controls indented further, but it would get really really busy at that point so I get the current way it works. 

Bob S


> On Jan 4, 2019, at 10:35 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 3.  it seems as though all controls in a card are being indented... was it
>> always like that?
>> 
> 
> Good eye -- no, they weren't before, but I added that additional level of
> indent because of allowing multiple targets. It would be easy enough to
> undo depending on the consensus opinion.




From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Jan  4 22:55:00 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 03:55:00 +0000
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <632E625B-9987-436D-AC1A-05081FD76397@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546607142359-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>
	<632E625B-9987-436D-AC1A-05081FD76397@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <9CF17785-89AD-46CE-8030-E9AB125F02A0@hindu.org>

"so I get the current way it works. "

Ditto that. I was afraid to ask indenting. 

Then suddenly it appeared!  

BR

Bob Sneidar wrote:

    I say NAY! I like the way it indents now. I'm surprised the interface doesn't list every card, each indented, with all it's own controls indented further, but it would get really really busy at that point so I get the current way it works. 



From nabble at mad.pink  Fri Jan  4 23:02:24 2019
From: nabble at mad.pink (pink)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 22:02:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546607142359-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1546660944289-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

>
> 1.  One thing I would love to do is assign different commands to the
> "Command Bars", I've been going through the source code and haven't
> figured
> out where this happens...
>

I obviously need to do better here: just right-click/control-click a
command bar. The pop-up menu lets you select any existing command to assign
to that command bar. You can create new named commands by selecting New
Command... at the top of the menu. Note: I just now noticed that you have
to have at least one control selected for this to work. I'll fix that in an
update.

----EXCELLENT! 

>
> 2.  Another feature request would be to assign a different color for
> groups
> (and folded group contents)
>

I thought about this, but I thought the overall "color things based on
whether they have a script/behavior" was more important, but I'll take a
look and see how tough this would be to work in.

--Ultimately, a user can get around it by using the same color if they don't
want to distinguish between certain things... I use the same color for with
or without a script

>
> 3.  it seems as though all controls in a card are being indented... was it
> always like that?
>

Good eye -- no, they weren't before, but I added that additional level of
indent because of allowing multiple targets. It would be easy enough to
undo depending on the consensus opinion.

--I would prefer not to have the extra indent, but it's not a dealbreaker or
anything :P

>
> 4.  it would be nice if there were an easier way to clean up the List
> Display String list... as far as I can tell the only way is to manually
> edit
> the prefs file
>

Definitely agreed, it was just the lack of/need for interface inspiration
and a desire to work on something else/laziness. But yes, editing the prefs
is the only way at present to clean up the list display list.

--I had A LOT to clean up, each addition to my line just made it
exponentially larger... 

iff(the vis of tID,"","hid") & iff(char 1 to 5 of the name of tID is
"group","---grp ---" & the short name of tID & "---",toUpper(char 1 of the
name of tID) && the short name of tID) && "id[" & the short ID of tID & "]"
&& the height of tID & "x" & the width of tID && the mpDevNotes of tID &&
the left of tID & "," & the top of tID & "," & the right of tID & "," & the
bottom of tID & "/" & the layer of tID

>



-----
---
Greg (pink) Miller
mad, pink and dangerous to code
--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 00:32:40 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 21:32:40 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.0.1rc1 is available -- Multi-target windows!
In-Reply-To: <1546660944289-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqwJw+64txxtks8UJ6dqPNUhYat0xJikYYwXF1sCnMgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546607142359-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAKCLKtq9RYPbfakUuvOOC-aLs7-NRwFinMbiNGQ_L1eF9x99cA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546660944289-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrFo11E+P745JSGs8UeM4tnbN30o-wskPHfpdE-3zoEMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, that's a lot of information you're displaying -- have you noticed any
hit on Navigator's display performance?

Also, couldn't you replace

the left of tID & "," & the top of tID & "," & the right of tID & ","
& the bottom
of tID

with

the rect of tID

?

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 8:02 PM pink via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> >
> > 1.  One thing I would love to do is assign different commands to the
> > "Command Bars", I've been going through the source code and haven't
> > figured
> > out where this happens...
> >
>
> I obviously need to do better here: just right-click/control-click a
> command bar. The pop-up menu lets you select any existing command to assign
> to that command bar. You can create new named commands by selecting New
> Command... at the top of the menu. Note: I just now noticed that you have
> to have at least one control selected for this to work. I'll fix that in an
> update.
>
> ----EXCELLENT!
>
> >
> > 2.  Another feature request would be to assign a different color for
> > groups
> > (and folded group contents)
> >
>
> I thought about this, but I thought the overall "color things based on
> whether they have a script/behavior" was more important, but I'll take a
> look and see how tough this would be to work in.
>
> --Ultimately, a user can get around it by using the same color if they
> don't
> want to distinguish between certain things... I use the same color for with
> or without a script
>
> >
> > 3.  it seems as though all controls in a card are being indented... was
> it
> > always like that?
> >
>
> Good eye -- no, they weren't before, but I added that additional level of
> indent because of allowing multiple targets. It would be easy enough to
> undo depending on the consensus opinion.
>
> --I would prefer not to have the extra indent, but it's not a dealbreaker
> or
> anything :P
>
> >
> > 4.  it would be nice if there were an easier way to clean up the List
> > Display String list... as far as I can tell the only way is to manually
> > edit
> > the prefs file
> >
>
> Definitely agreed, it was just the lack of/need for interface inspiration
> and a desire to work on something else/laziness. But yes, editing the prefs
> is the only way at present to clean up the list display list.
>
> --I had A LOT to clean up, each addition to my line just made it
> exponentially larger...
>
> iff(the vis of tID,"","hid") & iff(char 1 to 5 of the name of tID is
> "group","---grp ---" & the short name of tID & "---",toUpper(char 1 of the
> name of tID) && the short name of tID) && "id[" & the short ID of tID & "]"
> && the height of tID & "x" & the width of tID && the mpDevNotes of tID &&
> the left of tID & "," & the top of tID & "," & the right of tID & "," & the
> bottom of tID & "/" & the layer of tID
>
> >
>
>
>
> -----
> ---
> Greg (pink) Miller
> mad, pink and dangerous to code
> --
> Sent from:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From curry at pair.com  Sat Jan  5 02:29:02 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 02:29:02 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
References: <7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <b2be89dd-f2b3-63b3-6256-876a3967aaaa@pair.com>


Richard:

 > Is there an actual list of concrete concerns here [...]
 > or did I just spend an hour reading that I'll never get back?
 > I feel rickrolled.

A profound question, my friend. :D You may notice something special 
about the following link, adapted in honor of the situation:

http://curryk.com/NeverGonna.mp4

Oh boy - I was ALWAYS gullible enough to fall for the "concrete 
concerns" type of line every single time, and rush off to make a newer 
list, until finally I wised up to the world's ways and realized that 
(outside of bug reports and specific issues) such statements are 
sometimes used merely to deflect - it's not always a matter of actually 
wanting more details, but rather quite simply an unwanted message.

These days, I am usually prepared in advance and merely smile and point 
a finger toward the information; the answer long preceded the question!

Many of the details had been in place and waiting for some time, by 
myself and others. They've been presented and discussed before, so I 
didn't anticipate the need to reference every single one yet again; 
perhaps I should have. But I understand that memories can be convenient, 
and assumptions and agendas can be strong enough to brush aside what we 
already know every now and then.

So, the "reverse rickrolled" link above connects to some aging stats 
that still hold generally true on the subject of performance. In many 
very basic tasks (math, loops, arrays) LC 9 has fallen short by 1.x or 
even 2.x, and that's still the case as of 902 final.

And testing indicated that it's almost certainly NOT just a Unicode 
thing. I'm sorry if that makes me the messenger of inconvenient news, or 
a destroyer of attractive explanations, but I prefer the plain truth of 
reality. Repeatable, proven, public tests, videotaped and distributed; 
sorry, but it's fact. No line of talk or alternate authoritative studies 
can alter that. Test it yourself, or look the other way if you must, but 
the facts persist either way.

I'm going to wait until there are relevant engine changes to update the 
results chart and test stack. It'll be fair as usual; in the original 
round of testing I went out of my way to make sure 9 had at least one 
match in its favor, and now I know a few other areas thanks to these 
talks. Hopefully after said engine changes, 9 will be the big winner!

When it comes to another matter of efficiency and saving work by 
avoiding repetition, I've always been a big fan of Richard's own rather 
extensive and lengthy rhetoric on the subject, and his repertoire of 
catchy acronyms such as WET (We Enjoy Typing) versus DRY (Don't Repeat 
Yourself). But I do believe in following through and applying the 
fundamental concepts consistently across the board, including reasonably 
minimizing repetition of the work itself. In fact Richard, there was a 
very eloquent past message of yours on a similar subject, if memory 
serves me well. I may post a link eventually if I have time to hunt it 
down, and defer to your own words on that; it was very well said.

Bob:

 > Some may think I'm overstating my case, but I think Livecode
 > stands alone in development environments for speedy development
 > and ease of use.

You may be surprised that I agree! But of course you wouldn't be 
surprised if you noticed that for many years now, I am 100% specialized 
and 100% dedicated to LiveCode consulting and development. It's all I 
do. I walk the walk, while others talk; all LiveCode, all the time.

So I understand if you feel an impulse to circle the wagons, but it's 
preaching to the choir or perhaps to the preacher himself. That question 
of which tool was settled long ago, and I'm a bigger LC proponent than 
almost anyone, especially since my skin is 100% in the game as a 
dedicated and exclusive specialist in that one tool. What we are looking 
at here is the question of making THE tool better in some areas. And if 
that's a bad thing, then count me guilty as charged, because I use, 
teach, and promote this tool 24/7/365 year after year, there are big 
plans ahead, and there are certain things I want in place for LC's own 
benefit, for yours, and for my own. Far from being a threat, they will 
help LC maintain its advantage against any potential competition.

Mark Waddingham:

 > It hasn't as yet - that PR
 > (https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6671) has actually
 > turned into a mini-grab bag of things [...]

 > - reduction of memory usage of the 'handle' structures used to
 > hold values (particularly on 64-bit)
 > - faster processing of integer index access in arrays
 > - faster short-path array access (both storing and fetching) [...]

Yes!!! Just what I was hoping to hear, that this is still in the works. 
Thank you, sir. It should help a great deal.

And THAT is the reason I engage in these particular discussions, and 
make myself cannon fodder at times to get the info out there: there are 
amazing benefits still to be realized, even when using such an amazing 
tool.

Great things ahead coming from LC, and also some great things coming to 
LC that I will be able to share a bit later.

Malte:

 > What I was searching for was input on gotchas you guys and girls
 > may have experienced when moving from the monolith engine to the
 > refactored one

That's a very useful endeavor and the info will help others too. I would 
like to share some of those too when there's time. Moving from LC 6 to 9 
can be a real adventure! Thanks for starting the thread and I'll let you 
steer it back in that direction.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Jan  5 13:46:35 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 12:46:35 -0600
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG9edyM6MT9Zk7si52bnFqorJ=u=H=w6L_yoexRWYEBw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG_ZJO5Bs-QA+OG+1cc-8HA8DCuFZhxk6jspnH7A=28foQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9edyM6MT9Zk7si52bnFqorJ=u=H=w6L_yoexRWYEBw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG9HX7kv1kzy1_hZprVbMO9grE2UQfd_iq2tV+UO0CEd-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:28 AM Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:55 PM Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
> wrote:
> I've added another DataView helper named "DataView Database Cursor Helper"
> and updated the demo app. This helper adds a `dvCursor` property to a
> DataView along with a number of other properties. You open a database
> cursor, assign it to the DataView, and then the DataView will automatically
> move through the cursor in order to display the rows the user is currently
> looking at. Fast and efficient, even for large result sets.
>

I added one other DataView Tree example to the demo. It allows you to
browse the mainstacks in the IDE much like the Project Browser.

https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu  Sat Jan  5 16:21:43 2019
From: msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu (Marc Siskin)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:21:43 +0000
Subject: Has anyone gotten audio to play back in an HTML5 standalone?
Message-ID: <17B5F3DB-1507-4719-8105-342D56282785@andrew.cmu.edu>

I am trying to create a stack that will play short audio files (.wav) that I can distribute as an HTML5 standalone.  I have tried the tutorial ?How do I play sound files in HTML5?? but that doesn?t work.  If any of you have created a working HTML5 sound player, please let me know what you did to get it working.

Thanks,
Marc
---------------
Marc Siskin
Manager, Modern Language Resource Center
Carnegie Mellon University
msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu<mailto:msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu>




From smk at anvic.net  Sat Jan  5 17:01:01 2019
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:01:01 +0000
Subject: LC 9.02 Problems when displaying local PDF in stack
Message-ID: <28E398C3-6988-4C19-9F27-7991155C5DE4@anvic.net>

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the done thing but I have started a thread on the forum describing how an Application I have written to rename PDFs is now failing in LC 9.02.  it has the title of "
Board index <https://forums.livecode.com/index.php>Intermediate <https://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=39>Talking LiveCode <https://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=9> <>RevBrowser Now displays PDFs with Adobe Clutter <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31998>
? and may be found here:

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31998&p=175028#p175028 <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31998&p=175028#p175028>

I have also raised a bug report and wonder if anyone has seen similar

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21776 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21776>



Simon Knight







From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jan  5 17:15:44 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 14:15:44 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <b2be89dd-f2b3-63b3-6256-876a3967aaaa@pair.com>
References: <b2be89dd-f2b3-63b3-6256-876a3967aaaa@pair.com>
Message-ID: <2ad453d3-6f17-2257-37f4-5ba3d34cd727@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

 > http://curryk.com/NeverGonna.mp4

Thank you for the link to test results relating to specific issues.

What bug reports can I find those test stacks attached to?

I'd like to follow their progress, and perhaps re-run them to see where 
there may have been changes after the seven builds delivered since v9.0 
was released. Happy to help steward issues along as best I can; 
supporting the QA process benefits my work as well.


 > Oh boy - I was ALWAYS gullible enough to fall for the "concrete
 > concerns" type of line every single time, and rush off to make a newer
 > list..

Not really needed.  When you use the RQCC you'll see that searches are 
expressed in the URL, so when communicating about several issues at once 
you needn't really need to spend any time writing each of them down, you 
can copy the search URL you've already bookmarked to monitor issues 
you're following.


 > And testing indicated that it's almost certainly NOT just a Unicode
 > thing.

Kudos.  I've have neither the time nor the C++ experience to examine the 
code well enough to rule out all possible impact from type coercions 
which may involve encoding operations.

What I have seen in many RQCC discussions is that fixing legacy bugs 
sometimes adds additional overhead.

Admittedly going out on a limb here, but I'm reasonably confident the 
team is neither willfully introducing new code to slow things down for 
no reason, or doing slopping haphazard work with no regard for quality.

With that assumption, when I see performance degradation I'm inclined to 
recognize that what I have is not a lengthy declaration opining about 
what constitutes professional code, or any declaration at all.  What I 
have is inherently a question: Why is this specific operation slower?

When I pose questions as questions I usually get answers in reply, and 
often quite helpful ones, e.g.:

 > Mark Waddingham:
 >
 >  > It hasn't as yet - that PR
 >  > (https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6671) has actually
 >  > turned into a mini-grab bag of things [...]
 >
 >  > - reduction of memory usage of the 'handle' structures used to
 >  > hold values (particularly on 64-bit)
 >  > - faster processing of integer index access in arrays
 >  > - faster short-path array access (both storing and fetching) [...]
 >
 > Yes!!! Just what I was hoping to hear, that this is still in the
 > works. Thank you, sir. It should help a great deal.


My interest is in getting results. I wish I had time for anything as 
colorful as "circling wagons", but alas like most people here I simply 
have software to deliver and need to stay focused where I can on 
specific actionable outcomes.

To that end, my method here is as straightforward as with anyone I work 
with:

1. Learn from the people doing the work I'm relying on
    how best to support their efforts.

2. Then I do that.

FWIW, using this method I see a lot of issues I report get resolved. 
Some very quickly.  And the ones not yet resolved are usually 
accompanied by an explanation of what's involved so I can understand the 
priorities at play.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Sat Jan  5 17:29:02 2019
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 23:29:02 +0100
Subject: LC 9.02 Problems when displaying local PDF in stack
In-Reply-To: <28E398C3-6988-4C19-9F27-7991155C5DE4@anvic.net>
References: <28E398C3-6988-4C19-9F27-7991155C5DE4@anvic.net>
Message-ID: <D4277D70-7835-4824-A988-FBEF97F63B63@me.com>

Try to remove the Adobe Acrobat (Reader) Plug-in from the Internet Plug-ins folder in the Library folder. Restart the application and see if that helps. 
Alternatively you could try to uninstall Acrobat altogether.


Best regards
Tore Nilsen


> 05. jan. 2019 kl. 23:01 skrev Simon Knight via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Not sure if this is the done thing but I have started a thread on the forum describing how an Application I have written to rename PDFs is now failing in LC 9.02.  it has the title of "
> Board index <https://forums.livecode.com/index.php>Intermediate <https://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=39>Talking LiveCode <https://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=9> <>RevBrowser Now displays PDFs with Adobe Clutter <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31998>
> ? and may be found here:
> 
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31998&p=175028#p175028 <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31998&p=175028#p175028>
> 
> I have also raised a bug report and wonder if anyone has seen similar
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21776 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21776>
> 
> 
> 
> Simon Knight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Jan  5 18:55:38 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 23:55:38 +0000
Subject: App Architecture - Nonmenclature
Message-ID: <7A75D252-1296-4A4C-9ED8-1B73A51AC475@hindu.org>

More strategy thoughts about app architure.....

I am using Andre book, (which he says is a guideline and your app may differ) but, wow, it has helped a lot to make "models" encapsulated.

 Since they know nothing  about the UI, it is easy to debug, because you just expected a list  file from disk, at a list image path or a list of quotes, or JSON from the date base. So you are not debugging the UI at the same time.  I use to mix the two together ?what a relief!

Ok, so far so good. 

Now there is a "new man on the block" which I  will call the UI utilities. 

They are not a  traditional "model" - which access the disk and return data and write data - they are things you do in the UI all the time, in different cards and stacks. 

The "UI utilities" (perhaps have a different name)  are naturally classed by control type:
 
Fields:
  -- get formattedtext rect
  -- change a position, say you want it centered
  -- change to the rect of bkgnd grp unlay (a fld "group")

Text: 
  -- truncation 
  
Images:
  -- get the ratio of width to height
 -- thereby determining if in portrait or landscape
 -- set the image to the card rect - 50 pixel for the bottom tool bar


Button
   -- a style sheet of how buttons  look on all card on all stacks

Etc.

So,  in a "levure" style framework, we find ourselves doing the same thing, in stack "behaviors"  over and over again...

So, what do you do? Create a library and call it "ui_utilities"?

Or create of one each for kind of control 

UiUtilitiesFields.livecodescript
UiUtilitiesImages.livecodescript
 
Currently have  1 one library called "lib_SivaSivaMedia.livecodescript" 

Which is half a "model" and has "section" of handler which a UI utilities.

I think I should break out the UI Utilities. So the question is: do you want more and more files? 

Probably not, maybe just one File: 

uiUtilities.livecodescript
 
What do you do?

 Brahmanathaswami


From curry at pair.com  Sat Jan  5 20:43:45 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 20:43:45 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <2ad453d3-6f17-2257-37f4-5ba3d34cd727@fourthworld.com>
References: <2ad453d3-6f17-2257-37f4-5ba3d34cd727@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7cd3d2a6-606a-8222-39a6-1628b12cedba@pair.com>


Richard:

 > I'd like to follow their progress [...]
 > supporting the QA process benefits my work as well.

Thanks, Richard! Yes, if you're not on the list for that bug, that would 
superb to sign up. I thought it might be considered old or familiar news 
here since tests and observations had been posted and discussed before 
by myself and others, so at first I didn't want to sp*m too much info 
again. Here we go in reverse chronology:

Jan 2019: Current mention, as a reminder and still-the-same 902 status 
update.

Sep 2018: LC Version "Showdown" video with several tests between 6.7 and 
9, to accompany separate Bug Report and Test Stack. (3 Links.)

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2018-September/250004.html>

2018: Several list discussions that touched on performance. Including 
your JS speed comparison suggestion, which I included. Also Mark's note 
about array work, and some array vs list tests by others.

Jan 2017: LC "Fight Night" video with demo tests between LC 6.7, 5.5, 
8.1.2 and 9 dp 4. At that point 9 was still very much under 
construction, so 8 was the stable data point. Didn't have a chance to 
post followups that year.

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2017-January/234093.html>

Prior: As I recall, I noticed performance differences from LC 7/8 on and 
mentioned it, but heard back officially that the new LC would go through 
an optimization stage, so I waited accordingly.

Of course all this may NOT cover all performance issues; it's a limited 
set of tests as examples.

 > to rule out all possible impact from type coercions
 > which may involve encoding operations.

True enough; I've mentioned my own rule of refraining from speculating 
much on the causes, but pointing out the areas affected, and countering 
a just-Unicode-as-expected meme that pops up now and then. The "Fight 
Night" was designed to pin down what I had encountered in my own work - 
that several areas were affected, not just text and arrays. Some tests 
were designed to avoid type coercions to the extent possible. (I think 
it was especially "Root Loops" - the original version, not the big calc 
variation.) So I can't say for sure that it's not happening, but in 
those cases it shouldn't be.

Hope you enjoyed the R^3 link antimeme joke! :) Miss our periodic 
catch-up calls; maybe we can do one later this year when we have a chance.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 21:01:34 2019
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 13:01:34 +1100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <C41D5592-9966-412D-9458-7277F7FEDE5A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <E6741E31-8D2D-4D94-B5EA-02A65AF50774@iotecdigital.com>
	<7d1b9906-f2a9-5f6a-6fbf-6f1091ab6363@fourthworld.com>
	<C41D5592-9966-412D-9458-7277F7FEDE5A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kj_rG-Xu_hog1RjetiCDVTtFYJf0fnZ6OrQ19J4X3iFcA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 10:13 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I just finished a little utility that takes accounting data export from Toshiba copiers ...The customer.... LOVES us.

OT
You might want to contact the Cuyahoga County Recorder's Office in
Ohio as they clearly have problems with staff and photocopiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbqAMEwtOE

Emily Maya Mills plays her role to perfection!  There should be Acadmy
Awards for YouTube? reenactments.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jan  5 22:35:15 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:35:15 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <7cd3d2a6-606a-8222-39a6-1628b12cedba@pair.com>
References: <7cd3d2a6-606a-8222-39a6-1628b12cedba@pair.com>
Message-ID: <d7a38a46-9421-9525-4d68-5cf6ee952418@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

 > Richard:
 >  > I'd like to follow their progress [...]
 >  > supporting the QA process benefits my work as well.
 >
 > Thanks, Richard! Yes, if you're not on the list for that bug, that
 > would superb to sign up. I thought it might be considered old or
 > familiar news here since tests and observations had been posted and
 > discussed before by myself and others, so at first I didn't want to
 > sp*m too much info again. Here we go in reverse chronology:
...

After following out the links in your post I eventually found one link 
where the rubber meets the road with an RQCC report:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21561

It's a bit confusing, since the Target Version shown there is 7, but it 
was submitted just a few months ago, many years after v7 was EOL'd.

Did you try to tip Heather included in Comment 5 there?


As hodge podge of what appear to be very different optimization 
opportunities under the hood, it may be difficult for the team to take 
action on it/them, and impossible to track.

For example, we know from Mark Waddingham's recent post on array 
optimizations that at least some of the many very different tests there 
will be affected, and likely not others.

Also, textreplace relies on the regex subsystem, which I'd guess is 
independent of the chunk handling code for items, which is different 
again from the allocation options for appends (I thought append had some 
revisions since v7, no?), and likely separate from the math operations.

If I can't even follow the progress on that report, I pity the dev 
assigned to deal with it.

In fact, now that I see it again I recall that the 
everything-in-one-report nature of that is why I subscribe to it when it 
was created in September.

Imagine if we put all bugs from the RQCC into one report.  That seems 
absurd of course, but this is unfortunately just a smaller version of 
the same problem imposed by such a grab-bag approach.

Maybe someone on the team has the resources to break it up into 
actionable elements.  Maybe you do.  I don't right now.

It's too bad that report's recipes have been packaged in such an unusual 
format uniquely difficult to integrate and track within the QA process. 
Looks like some useful details there, currently lost in a black box.


 > Hope you enjoyed the R^3 link antimeme joke! :) Miss our periodic
 > catch-up calls; maybe we can do one later this year when we have a
 > chance.

Yes, good link.  It's been a hectic season but lightening up.  It would 
be good to catch up.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From smk at anvic.net  Sun Jan  6 05:06:48 2019
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:06:48 +0000
Subject: LC 9.02 Problems when displaying local PDF in stack
In-Reply-To: <D4277D70-7835-4824-A988-FBEF97F63B63@me.com>
References: <28E398C3-6988-4C19-9F27-7991155C5DE4@anvic.net>
	<D4277D70-7835-4824-A988-FBEF97F63B63@me.com>
Message-ID: <FB6C3CB4-5B01-4EDC-B002-42C80334F58D@anvic.net>

Hi Tore,

I have spent a couple of hours hunting down Adobe Reader related  files scattered about in my computers Library folder and others but to no avail.  I suspect that the root cause is the newish Adobe Acrobat Reader DC which I briefly tried while attempting to solve an unrelated problem with a PDF file.  This was the app that was inserting its self into my apps revBrowser control,  I have removed Acrobat Reader DC and downloaded the Adobe cleaner app but my instance of revBrowser still requests that I locate Adobe Acrobat and fails to display the local PDF file.  I have also experimented with the Browser widget and get the same result when running LC 9.02.

So it seems that having removed Adobe Acrobat Reader DC that my code is unable to display PDFs in either a RevBrowser or a Browser Widget when running in LC9.02.  I also suspect there is a subtle buffering problem when running the same code in LC 8 and earlier as the app stops displaying PDFs after a source file is moved; I am still experimenting to see if I can determine exactly what is causing the problem.
 
Regards
Simon Knight




From jjs at krutt.org  Sun Jan  6 05:22:59 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:22:59 +0100
Subject: LC 9.02 Problems when displaying local PDF in stack
In-Reply-To: <FB6C3CB4-5B01-4EDC-B002-42C80334F58D@anvic.net>
References: <28E398C3-6988-4C19-9F27-7991155C5DE4@anvic.net>
	<D4277D70-7835-4824-A988-FBEF97F63B63@me.com>
	<FB6C3CB4-5B01-4EDC-B002-42C80334F58D@anvic.net>
Message-ID: <acaafd6b-ea3d-ab2f-8aff-4a5be4107fb4@krutt.org>

I don't have Acrobat on my PC.

i use the browser widget and works ok in lc902


*put*specialFolderPath("home") & "/your.pdf"intotFile

*if* thereisafiletFile *then*

*// Allow for spaces in filenames*

*replace*" "with"%20"intFile

*set*theurlofwidget"showmethepdf"totFile

end if


Op 6-1-2019 om 11:06 schreef Simon Knight via use-livecode:
> Hi Tore,
>
> I have spent a couple of hours hunting down Adobe Reader related  files scattered about in my computers Library folder and others but to no avail.  I suspect that the root cause is the newish Adobe Acrobat Reader DC which I briefly tried while attempting to solve an unrelated problem with a PDF file.  This was the app that was inserting its self into my apps revBrowser control,  I have removed Acrobat Reader DC and downloaded the Adobe cleaner app but my instance of revBrowser still requests that I locate Adobe Acrobat and fails to display the local PDF file.  I have also experimented with the Browser widget and get the same result when running LC 9.02.
>
> So it seems that having removed Adobe Acrobat Reader DC that my code is unable to display PDFs in either a RevBrowser or a Browser Widget when running in LC9.02.  I also suspect there is a subtle buffering problem when running the same code in LC 8 and earlier as the app stops displaying PDFs after a source file is moved; I am still experimenting to see if I can determine exactly what is causing the problem.
>   
> Regards
> Simon Knight
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jjs at krutt.org  Sun Jan  6 05:24:22 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:24:22 +0100
Subject: LC 9.02 Problems when displaying local PDF in stack
In-Reply-To: <acaafd6b-ea3d-ab2f-8aff-4a5be4107fb4@krutt.org>
References: <28E398C3-6988-4C19-9F27-7991155C5DE4@anvic.net>
	<D4277D70-7835-4824-A988-FBEF97F63B63@me.com>
	<FB6C3CB4-5B01-4EDC-B002-42C80334F58D@anvic.net>
	<acaafd6b-ea3d-ab2f-8aff-4a5be4107fb4@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <306db095-c588-5fe6-0dc7-15939aa63b4c@krutt.org>

ignore the stars

probably a copy/paste fail directly from script editor to thunderbird

Op 6-1-2019 om 11:22 schreef JJS via use-livecode:
> I don't have Acrobat on my PC.
>
> i use the browser widget and works ok in lc902
>
>
> *put*specialFolderPath("home") & "/your.pdf"intotFile
>
> *if* thereisafiletFile *then*
>
> *// Allow for spaces in filenames*
>
> *replace*" "with"%20"intFile
>
> *set*theurlofwidget"showmethepdf"totFile
>
> end if
>
>
> Op 6-1-2019 om 11:06 schreef Simon Knight via use-livecode:
>> Hi Tore,
>>
>> I have spent a couple of hours hunting down Adobe Reader related? 
>> files scattered about in my computers Library folder and others but 
>> to no avail.? I suspect that the root cause is the newish Adobe 
>> Acrobat Reader DC which I briefly tried while attempting to solve an 
>> unrelated problem with a PDF file.? This was the app that was 
>> inserting its self into my apps revBrowser control,? I have removed 
>> Acrobat Reader DC and downloaded the Adobe cleaner app but my 
>> instance of revBrowser still requests that I locate Adobe Acrobat and 
>> fails to display the local PDF file.? I have also experimented with 
>> the Browser widget and get the same result when running LC 9.02.
>>
>> So it seems that having removed Adobe Acrobat Reader DC that my code 
>> is unable to display PDFs in either a RevBrowser or a Browser Widget 
>> when running in LC9.02.? I also suspect there is a subtle buffering 
>> problem when running the same code in LC 8 and earlier as the app 
>> stops displaying PDFs after a source file is moved; I am still 
>> experimenting to see if I can determine exactly what is causing the 
>> problem.
>> ? Regards
>> Simon Knight
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From preid at reidit.co.uk  Sun Jan  6 05:25:07 2019
From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:25:07 +0000
Subject: Using A Browser for TTS?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11412.1546541271.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.11412.1546541271.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9D696299-3632-4979-8CD3-E8C382BE4CB7@reidit.co.uk>

A while ago I asked whether there was any way to do Text-To-Speech (TTS) for Android. Unfortunately there were no replies.  Since then I came across a browser JavaScript API that seems to provide speech synthesis:

Here's a sample HTML that plays through my default browser on my Mac:

---------
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC '-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN'>
<html>
<head>
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
    <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
    <title>TTS Generator</title>
</head>
<body>
<script type='text/javascript'>
	var u = new SpeechSynthesisUtterance();
	u.text = '[PHRASE]';
	u.lang = 'en-GB';
	u.rate = [RATE];
	u.name = "[VOICE]";
	speechSynthesis.speak(u);
</script>
<h2>
Generating speech for:
<i>Hello, how are you?</i>
</h2>
</body>
</html>
---------

The method is as follows:

1. Create an HTML file with the above content, replacing the [...] elements with specific text.

2. Use 'launch' to open the HTML file in the Android tablet's default browser (Firefox works well) that synthesises and plays the phrase:

	launch url [path to HTML file]

3. Wait for speech to finish (I calculate an approx. duration based on the number of characters spoken)

4. Bring my app to the front or quit browser - DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS!

Note that I tried using a browser widget to play the HTML/phrase but it is silent on the Android tablet (it speaks OK on the Mac).

My questions are:

Q1. Is there a simpler way of getting TTS for Android?

Q2. How can I make my app the front app and/or how can I quit another app?

Q3. How can I get the list of voices available on an Android tablet?

Q4. When will LiveCode fully support TTS and STT across Mac, Win, iOS and Android?!

Thanks

Peter
--
Peter Reid
Loughborough, UK




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Sun Jan  6 05:29:39 2019
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:29:39 +0100
Subject: LC 9.02 Problems when displaying local PDF in stack
In-Reply-To: <FB6C3CB4-5B01-4EDC-B002-42C80334F58D@anvic.net>
References: <28E398C3-6988-4C19-9F27-7991155C5DE4@anvic.net>
	<D4277D70-7835-4824-A988-FBEF97F63B63@me.com>
	<FB6C3CB4-5B01-4EDC-B002-42C80334F58D@anvic.net>
Message-ID: <BC420539-408C-4CE2-925E-FF0E2EA438A6@me.com>

I had the same problem as you, and I used the Adobe Unistaller Program to remove all traces of Adobe Acrobat. This worked for me. You could try to reinstall Acrobat and then use the Uninstaller to remove it again. This has done the trick for me at times when I simply cannot find the file(s) causing the problem.

Best regards
Tore Nilsen








> 06. jan. 2019 kl. 11:06 skrev Simon Knight via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Tore,
> 
> I have spent a couple of hours hunting down Adobe Reader related  files scattered about in my computers Library folder and others but to no avail.  I suspect that the root cause is the newish Adobe Acrobat Reader DC which I briefly tried while attempting to solve an unrelated problem with a PDF file.  This was the app that was inserting its self into my apps revBrowser control,  I have removed Acrobat Reader DC and downloaded the Adobe cleaner app but my instance of revBrowser still requests that I locate Adobe Acrobat and fails to display the local PDF file.  I have also experimented with the Browser widget and get the same result when running LC 9.02.
> 
> So it seems that having removed Adobe Acrobat Reader DC that my code is unable to display PDFs in either a RevBrowser or a Browser Widget when running in LC9.02.  I also suspect there is a subtle buffering problem when running the same code in LC 8 and earlier as the app stops displaying PDFs after a source file is moved; I am still experimenting to see if I can determine exactly what is causing the problem.
> 
> Regards
> Simon Knight
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From smk at anvic.net  Sun Jan  6 06:50:44 2019
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:50:44 +0000
Subject: LC 9.02 Problems when displaying local PDF in stack
In-Reply-To: <BC420539-408C-4CE2-925E-FF0E2EA438A6@me.com>
References: <28E398C3-6988-4C19-9F27-7991155C5DE4@anvic.net>
	<D4277D70-7835-4824-A988-FBEF97F63B63@me.com>
	<FB6C3CB4-5B01-4EDC-B002-42C80334F58D@anvic.net>
	<BC420539-408C-4CE2-925E-FF0E2EA438A6@me.com>
Message-ID: <3E343F36-91F8-4D83-92B4-41DA56497CAC@anvic.net>

Excellent advice Tore - many thanks.

I reinstalled Adobe Acrobat Reader DC and confirmed that my app PDFreader was now displaying PDFs when run in LC 9.02 and that a second selection of a PDF caused the Adobe related menus and button bar to be displayed i.e. back to my starting point.

Next I ran the Adobe Cleaner App which I downloaded from the Adobe web site.  Thus ran and reported that the Reader had been removed.  I checked the log file and it contained a very long list of files so this removal app is necessary.

Then I ran my app PDFrename and confirmed that it could display PDFs and continue to do so once the PDFs are renamed and moved all without any Adobe clutter.  All this works but the display of PDFs is slower without Adobe Reader installed and slower than with earlier versions of LC.  Unfortunately this slowness now occurs in the older versions so may be OS related.  It could be that in the past I had an older version of Adobe Reader installed that did not force menus to be displayed and ran faster than the native OS.

So this is a problem partially solved.  The true problem is that we can produce applications that use the revBrowser control which may have a UI that varies significantly depending on what the end user has installed on his computer.  I think this is undesirable.

Thanks again,
best wishes
Simon Knight




From curry at pair.com  Sun Jan  6 08:07:05 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 08:07:05 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <d7a38a46-9421-9525-4d68-5cf6ee952418@fourthworld.com>
References: <d7a38a46-9421-9525-4d68-5cf6ee952418@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d1d59931-5957-e96c-b4e3-e56bc3f4cd0b@pair.com>


Richard:

 > It's a bit confusing, since the Target Version shown there is 7,
 > but it was submitted just a few months ago, many years after v7
 > was EOL'd.

As you can see (in the message you replied to) I inquired back then, and 
was advised officially then. BTW, that's a bit like the concrete info 
and explanations that were here all the time and it turns out you 
admittedly saw, interacted with, and evaluated - all, as you say 
yourself, very recently. I almost want to blush for you. :)

 > As hodge podge of what appear to be very different optimization
 > opportunities under the hood, it may be difficult for the team to
 > take action on it/them, and impossible to track. [... ... ...]

Priceless drama! Kittens and puppies massacred all over town, no doubt, 
from my being alert enough to notice the problem when others did not, 
and reporting some excellent test cases to prove that more areas were 
affected than originally assumed. I file many pinpointed bugs, as you 
know well from your CCs over the years. I'm sure a cluster of narrowed 
examples would be nice for this performance issue too, nothing against 
it, but who knows yet precisely how many or how few areas and individual 
causes? Overlaps? Moot point, because I didn't have time for a cluster 
of reports. Nor magical space/time control and travel to organize and 
fit the problem to a separately-evolving set of solution/improvement 
efforts (which I'm very hopeful about) that started with arrays.

I received good feedback about the test stack and the video; there was 
enough time to create and maintain one test stack, and it needed to look 
good and perform the video competition too. LC has a somewhat messy set 
of performance issues, not of my own making, and reporting it on my own 
time and expense had to be realistic and finite. Some people might not 
have any real limitations on free time, anything goes, but others know.

I have beaten the odds as one of most prolific consultants and addon 
developers despite extensive handicaps that take up considerable daily 
time and energy themselves. It doesn't just happen that way by itself; 
the system that makes it possible doesn't involve repeating, redoing, 
and restating every single darn thing the livelong day. Precisely the 
opposite; efficiency is key and it will never let you down if you apply 
it consistently and strictly! Take care.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From smk at anvic.net  Sun Jan  6 11:15:55 2019
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:15:55 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>


This thread seems to have diverted away from Malte?s original post.

For Malte and others I have found that the revBrowser control is slower to render PDFs and may insert unwanted menus and button thanks to Adobe in version 9.02.
See  <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21776 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21776>>

One question why does this thread refer to RQCC ?

best wishes

Simon





> On 30 Dec 2018, at 19:33, Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did anybody of you happen to refactor old code and if so, do you have any observations you might want to share?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Malte



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jan  6 11:40:54 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 08:40:54 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <d1d59931-5957-e96c-b4e3-e56bc3f4cd0b@pair.com>
References: <d1d59931-5957-e96c-b4e3-e56bc3f4cd0b@pair.com>
Message-ID: <b15d9805-43c7-44a5-bdb5-6248b8c0df14@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

 > Richard:
...
 >  > As hodge podge of what appear to be very different optimization
 >  > opportunities under the hood, it may be difficult for the team to
 >  > take action on it/them, and impossible to track. [... ... ...]
...
 > ..Moot point, because I didn't have time for a cluster of reports.

(4,000 words later)


 > I received good feedback about the test stack and the video

I passed along from guidance provided by members of the core team to 
help reports be actionable.

If you're satisfied the the progress on yours then of course you can 
safely ignore my passing that along.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From tom at makeshyft.com  Sun Jan  6 11:56:17 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:56:17 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJJJrQ=eQvxjH4a0Asz3e85uZj5EemH2aic9dprfUHubA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks, I'd like to know if there is any chance that the issues with
windows defender interfering in the normal operation of the LiveCode engine
is something that can and will be looked at?

Is there any communication between Microsoft and Livecode inc?

Is there any hope that we won't have to put an * beside on our application
requirements?

Its just not an acceptable workaround to ask customers to disable windows
defender.

The day Kevin was here last year for the develop yourself videos I demoed
my stack to Chris, but not before the anti-virus (some lesser known
security software) totally attacked my standalone stack.

Are there any other experiences you've had with AV software attacking LC
stacks?

Thanks,

Tom


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jan  6 12:27:08 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 09:27:08 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>
References: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>
Message-ID: <961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>

Simon Knight wrote:

 > This thread seems to have diverted away from Malte?s original post.

Somewhat. His post from Dec 30 listed three issues:

-  IDE spams a lot of IDE only messages when creating many objects by
    script -> remedy: Lock messages
Locking messages is a good habit for any context in which system 
messages are not needed.

-  Nested Lock screens are a big "NO-NO? nowadays
As Mark Waddingham noted, with hi-res displays there is now more impact 
from rendering; 4x more pixels to push.

-  Array operations on larger data sets still slower than they were
Already in progress - see:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16387
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6671

All three issues which began this thread are resolved.

The rest was in reply to his open-ended question at the bottom of that post:

    Did anybody of you happen to refactor old code and if so,
    do you have any observations you might want to share?


 > For Malte and others I have found that the revBrowser control is
 > slower to render PDFs and may insert unwanted menus and button
 > thanks to Adobe in version 9.02.
 > See  https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21776

I didn't see Malte's mention of PDF in the post that began this thread, 
but topic drift is a natural part of conversation so no worries.

Interesting circumstance in your report.  Lots of moving parts there, 
with LC relying on the browser component which in turn relies on Adobe 
components (and FWIW I share your opinion on Adobe <g>).

Looks like you've made some good progress there.  How can the readers of 
this list help?


 > One question why does this thread refer to RQCC ?

Old habits.  The bug database used to be called the "Revolution Quality 
Control Center", and the acronym is forever stuck in my typing fingers.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Jan  6 12:29:49 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:29:49 -0600
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJJJrQ=eQvxjH4a0Asz3e85uZj5EemH2aic9dprfUHubA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJJJrQ=eQvxjH4a0Asz3e85uZj5EemH2aic9dprfUHubA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1682436aac8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Most software I've seen does ask users to whitelist their app in any 
anti-virus software the user has.

I don't think LC could ask for exclusions for any app it builds, it's a 
development platform. Anyone could take the free version, write some 
malware, and distribute it. That would be like asking AV software to 
exclude any app written in Java.

The responsibility would probably be on you, the app developer, to get an 
exclusion for your particular app. I don't know much about how Defender 
works, but getting a signing certificate from MS may be one way to 
legitimize the app.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 6, 2019 10:58:18 AM Tom Glod via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi folks, I'd like to know if there is any chance that the issues with
> windows defender interfering in the normal operation of the LiveCode engine
> is something that can and will be looked at?
>
> Is there any communication between Microsoft and Livecode inc?
>
> Is there any hope that we won't have to put an * beside on our application
> requirements?
>
> Its just not an acceptable workaround to ask customers to disable windows
> defender.
>
> The day Kevin was here last year for the develop yourself videos I demoed
> my stack to Chris, but not before the anti-virus (some lesser known
> security software) totally attacked my standalone stack.
>
> Are there any other experiences you've had with AV software attacking LC
> stacks?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From revolution at derbrill.de  Sun Jan  6 12:58:54 2019
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Pfaff-Brill)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:58:54 +0100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1546772402.18693.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546772402.18693.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <499C9A1F-1B3B-4074-8713-B4D0FE2AB250@derbrill.de>


Hi Richard,

>I didn't see Malte's mention of PDF in the post that began this thread,
While that is true, but I am actually (as stated) keen to learn about everything that could be a gotcha when transitioning from the old engine to the latest, so this is welcome input. Also Marks mention of TAB button behaviour on a Mac is something I really appreciate to know, as I use those. To add to my list is that some of the inks have been deprecated which resulted in hidden elements where I used a deprecated ink.

If there were a list of things that do no longer work as they did non previous engines it would have been beneficial for me to check off points like ?Yes, using that, need to fix / No, does not affect my work"

Cheers,

Malte

From revolution at derbrill.de  Sun Jan  6 13:01:53 2019
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Pfaff-Brill)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 19:01:53 +0100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x 
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1546772402.18693.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546772402.18693.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <619E277D-2848-4749-A018-2549F2DB8560@derbrill.de>

And of course, please also be vocal on the positives!!!

Old engine Mac: Hi res images were a problem to render (for whatever reason, I had to use video player instead of image object to display those images). Limitations here have been lifted which for me is a very pleasant change!

Cheers,

Malte


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jan  6 12:46:10 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 09:46:10 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJJJrQ=eQvxjH4a0Asz3e85uZj5EemH2aic9dprfUHubA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJJJrQ=eQvxjH4a0Asz3e85uZj5EemH2aic9dprfUHubA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6b40ec4c-3d2c-3bff-fb5a-4bf7237789dc@fourthworld.com>

Tom Glod wrote:

 > Hi folks, I'd like to know if there is any chance that the issues with
 > windows defender interfering in the normal operation of the LiveCode
 > engine is something that can and will be looked at?
 >
 > Is there any communication between Microsoft and Livecode inc?
 >
 > Is there any hope that we won't have to put an * beside on our
 > application requirements?
 >
 > Its just not an acceptable workaround to ask customers to disable
 > windows defender.

Panos has found that the issue is specific to Windows Defender's "Real 
Time Protection":
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604

It would be great if LC were the only app affected by this, so the LC 
team could fix it.  But looking 'round the web I find that this is 
tragically pervasive:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+defender+slowing+apps

That said, it does not appear to be completely universal; that is, some 
apps manage to avoid the wrath of Real Time Protection.

My comment #10 in that bug report asks what LC may be able to do to 
avoid the impact of this Microsoft bug.


 > The day Kevin was here last year for the develop yourself videos I
 > demoed my stack to Chris, but not before the anti-virus (some lesser
 > known security software) totally attacked my standalone stack.

"attacked"? What exactly happened?


 > Are there any other experiences you've had with AV software attacking
 > LC stacks?

I have not previously seen performance impairment from AV software, but 
from time to time I run across AV packages reporting LC-based apps with 
false positives.

The first time it happened I was alarmed, but since then I've learned 
that it seems many AV packages rely on Bloom filters, similar to what 
Google Chrome uses to identify malware sites, and Bloom filters by 
nature are prone to false positives.

So now when I encounter a false positive flagged from an AV package I 
drop a note to their Support department and pretty much all of them have 
been quick to whitelist my app.  In some cases, where the pattern that 
triggered the false positive was in the engine, one whitelist request 
winds up fixing the issue for all LC devs.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Jan  6 13:41:04 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 19:41:04 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <1682436aac8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJJJrQ=eQvxjH4a0Asz3e85uZj5EemH2aic9dprfUHubA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1682436aac8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F9075AA8-AD17-4530-BB0D-9F97616D18AE@m-r-d.de>



> 
> The responsibility would probably be on you, the app developer, to get an exclusion for your particular app. I don't know much about how Defender works, but getting a signing certificate from MS may be one way to legitimize the app.
So that?s maybe the reason, why no one of my customers who use Windows 10 ever reported a problem.
I am using a Code Signing Certificate from Comodo to sign my Windows apps.

Matthias




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jan  6 14:31:14 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:31:14 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <F9075AA8-AD17-4530-BB0D-9F97616D18AE@m-r-d.de>
References: <F9075AA8-AD17-4530-BB0D-9F97616D18AE@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <391b87e1-32c1-4652-3ac3-cf8a32022c3c@fourthworld.com>

Matthias Rebbe wrote:

 >> The responsibility would probably be on you, the app developer, to
 >> get an exclusion for your particular app. I don't know much about
 >> how Defender works, but getting a signing certificate from MS may
 >> be one way to legitimize the app.
 >
 > So that?s maybe the reason, why no one of my customers who use Windows
 > 10 ever reported a problem.
 > I am using a Code Signing Certificate from Comodo to sign my Windows
 > apps.

I don't believe certificates have been confirmed as the differentiator 
for apps immune to this Microsoft bug, but if anyone can confirm that 
please add it to the notes in the report:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jan  6 14:28:38 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:28:38 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <499C9A1F-1B3B-4074-8713-B4D0FE2AB250@derbrill.de>
References: <499C9A1F-1B3B-4074-8713-B4D0FE2AB250@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <4929c4a3-5cf4-f972-55f1-7ffbfbefa0c4@fourthworld.com>

Malte Pfaff-Brill wrote:

 > If there were a list of things that do no longer work as they did non
 > previous engines it would have been beneficial for me to check off
 > points like ?Yes, using that, need to fix / No, does not affect my
 > work"

Half of that problem is solved in the Engine Changes section of the 
Release Notes.

That change list is added to with each release within a maintenance 
release (x.x through x.x.x), reset for feature releases (x.x).

But that addresses only half of the problem of the differences between 
two versions: it outlines the changes in the version you're moving to, 
but does not express everything since the version you were last using.

To solve that second half of the problem would require the maintainer of 
the Release Notes to be able to know which version each user had last 
used, and expand the Release Notes for that scope. :)

Of course that's impractical, and if you keep current from version to 
version you only need to read one.

But if you've missed several Stable versions, you may want to skim the 
Engine Changes listing for the Stable builds of the feature releases 
you've skipped:

https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Jan  6 15:08:07 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 21:08:07 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <391b87e1-32c1-4652-3ac3-cf8a32022c3c@fourthworld.com>
References: <F9075AA8-AD17-4530-BB0D-9F97616D18AE@m-r-d.de>
	<391b87e1-32c1-4652-3ac3-cf8a32022c3c@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5C96BC81-0EAC-4559-9655-356C76E3ED67@m-r-d.de>

Is there a sample stack, maybe a benchmark stack,  i could test under Win10 which shows the behaviour with defender and does it not with defender inactive?
I then could test the created standalone with and wihtout signing.

Matthias

Matthias Rebbe



> Am 06.01.2019 um 20:31 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Matthias Rebbe wrote:
> 
> >> The responsibility would probably be on you, the app developer, to
> >> get an exclusion for your particular app. I don't know much about
> >> how Defender works, but getting a signing certificate from MS may
> >> be one way to legitimize the app.
> >
> > So that?s maybe the reason, why no one of my customers who use Windows
> > 10 ever reported a problem.
> > I am using a Code Signing Certificate from Comodo to sign my Windows
> > apps.
> 
> I don't believe certificates have been confirmed as the differentiator for apps immune to this Microsoft bug, but if anyone can confirm that please add it to the notes in the report:
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jan  6 15:56:53 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 12:56:53 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <5C96BC81-0EAC-4559-9655-356C76E3ED67@m-r-d.de>
References: <5C96BC81-0EAC-4559-9655-356C76E3ED67@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <0a802842-3d88-2e83-f454-8f33d900b311@fourthworld.com>

Matthias Rebbe wrote:

 >> Am 06.01.2019 um 20:31 schrieb Richard Gaskin:
 >> I don't believe certificates have been confirmed as the
 >> differentiator for apps immune to this Microsoft bug, but
 >> if anyone can confirm that please add it to the notes in
 >> the report:
 >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604
 >
 > Is there a sample stack, maybe a benchmark stack,  i could test under
 > Win10 which shows the behaviour with defender and does it not with
 > defender inactive?
 > I then could test the created standalone with and wihtout signing.

So far most reports center around using LC's Script Editor, which is 
sensible enough as it's one of the most computationally intensive 
activities we do regularly with LC.

The key, however, seems to be not just Windows Defender itself, but 
specific to its "Real Time Protection" option, per Comment 8 in that report.

So a good first diagnostic step would be to check that setting on your 
system.  If it's already on and you've noticed no lag when editing large 
scripts, it may be a red herring.  But if you only see lag after turning 
it on, that would seem reasonable confirmation, consistent with what at 
least half a dozen or so other users have reported so far.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From curry at pair.com  Sun Jan  6 16:24:19 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:24:19 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <b15d9805-43c7-44a5-bdb5-6248b8c0df14@fourthworld.com>
References: <b15d9805-43c7-44a5-bdb5-6248b8c0df14@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <12fef08c-0ebf-9906-8f9a-af7f10ca2dc5@pair.com>


Richard:

 > If you're satisfied the the progress on yours then of course you
 > can safely ignore my passing that along.

Thanks Richard - all great things to bear in mind, when kept realistic. 
Areas affected by performance were pretty widespread, so it'll be easier 
to isolate any remaining areas and create new tests once the current 
memory/array/other improvements are in place. That will be an exciting 
followup.

But looking at LC Mark's optimization items, I am quite pleased with the 
progress so far and the approach taken. My tests and others have been 
converted to benchmarks, and a variety of improvements have been 
tackled, so I think very good things are in store sooner or later. I 
have always believed and promoted that LC 9 beating 6 on speed would be 
possible and desirable, and that day may come soon. Very invigorating. 
My thanks again to LC Mark for these optimization efforts!

Malte:

 > And of course, please also be vocal on the positives!!!

That's easy; we're always positive! :D There are so many additions in LC 
7-9 that it would take a while to discuss, but here are some that were 
significant for me.

One of my favorites was column tabAlign in fields. Many LiveCoders still 
don't realize that they can often use a single field rather than a data 
grid for displaying tabbed text. With those column alignments fully 
supported as of LC 9, all the more incentive to keep stacks lean and 
mean when building new or updating. The only thing still lacking is word 
processing style tab aligns for normal text, and of course an option for 
column text wrap would be a huge improvement.

Another item I enjoyed and used for refactoring is the "resolve" keyword 
for images. Not only good for optimization, but also for accuracy and 
avoiding conflicts. That's what I consider a completely positive example 
of refactoring, because it's a definite improvement over even the best 
LC 6 code, rather than an arbitrary change or correcting bad habits.

I was less impressed by the new textDecode function, because while it 
results in cleaner code (and you should use it to ensure accuracy) the 
performance was actually worse than legacy LC 6 methods, if memory 
serves, and in this case I'm talking about an LC 9 versus 9 speed 
comparison with those respective sets of code. It shouldn't be slower, 
if indeed it is; my legacy methods were even jumping a few extra hoops 
for the sake of ~100% Unicode accuracy on older LCs, so textDecode had 
every advantage. That's probably another enhancement request I should 
test and file, the first chance I get.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From smk at anvic.net  Sun Jan  6 17:28:19 2019
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 22:28:19 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>
References: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>
	<961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C216AACC-2641-4BDF-993F-8683F5541880@anvic.net>

Richard,

Your are correct but Malte did ask ask about general refactoring (i think)  so I just mentioned my latest problem / finding.  As to the PDF ?feature? itsself I think its now up to Edinburgh to decide what to do; I doubt that they intended to have Adobe menus and button bars popping up in their RevBrowser.

As to what members of this list can do the answer is to keep offering friendly help!  

best wishes

Simon Knight





> On 6 Jan 2019, at 17:27, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I didn't see Malte's mention of PDF in the post that began this thread, but topic drift is a natural part of conversation so no worries.



From tom at makeshyft.com  Sun Jan  6 17:56:03 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:56:03 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <C216AACC-2641-4BDF-993F-8683F5541880@anvic.net>
References: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>
	<961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>
	<C216AACC-2641-4BDF-993F-8683F5541880@anvic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+WPtsAV0peVbzsP-ECETx-=TOTDcpiLcdyQ=UhBFOwCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, everyone for chiming in here, I want to help narrow down the
circumstances in which windows defender affects the ide.... but more
importantly standalones.

Richard, I demoed my stack on my mother in laws laptop.... and her AV (one
I was not familiar with) put my executable into quarantine right away
before I even ran it.  I did not have time to inspect details of the report
since Kevin and Chris were on their way.  So that's all I remember ....and
want to avoid this like heck going forward. I believe it also quarantined
the dlls in the standalone directory.

Seems like signing the exec is a good idea and certainly can't hurt....and
if I have to write some emails to get whitelisted I can do that too.

I admire anyone in the business of creating frameworks on which other
people rest their livelihoods, its a tough job. So many edge cases
variables to account for. yikes.

Happy Monday tomorrow, happy Sunday today



On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 5:28 PM Simon Knight via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Richard,
>
> Your are correct but Malte did ask ask about general refactoring (i
> think)  so I just mentioned my latest problem / finding.  As to the PDF
> ?feature? itsself I think its now up to Edinburgh to decide what to do; I
> doubt that they intended to have Adobe menus and button bars popping up in
> their RevBrowser.
>
> As to what members of this list can do the answer is to keep offering
> friendly help!
>
> best wishes
>
> Simon Knight
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 6 Jan 2019, at 17:27, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I didn't see Malte's mention of PDF in the post that began this thread,
> but topic drift is a natural part of conversation so no worries.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Jan  6 21:28:54 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 02:28:54 +0000
Subject: Error in loading "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson"
Message-ID: <1D6F0E09-8BB6-4B2B-870C-83BBBCC3DD38@hindu.org>

I did my first attempt to build a standalone of Mobile for Android in 9.0.2

I got this unusual never-saw-it-before message:

Remote: stack "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson": execution error at line n/a (External handler execution error: could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file) near "could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file"

The JSON files that load on init are valid JSON files

doesn?t happen on desktop? How do I debug this? 

BR





From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Jan  6 21:37:04 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 20:37:04 -0600
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+WPtsAV0peVbzsP-ECETx-=TOTDcpiLcdyQ=UhBFOwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>
	<961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>
	<C216AACC-2641-4BDF-993F-8683F5541880@anvic.net>
	<CAPzQJL+WPtsAV0peVbzsP-ECETx-=TOTDcpiLcdyQ=UhBFOwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-gD2X6mzbrC=EX-X0Y8YKMPLmFM+TSX7v-qF9cchcpqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 4:56 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Seems like signing the exec is a good idea and certainly can't hurt....and
> if I have to write some emails to get whitelisted I can do that too.


FWIW I always sign my Windows standalones and I haven?t had any reports of
quarantine issues overs the years. I can?t say for sure that it isn?t
happening, but my company?s software has had a fair number of Windows
customers so I would think I would have had a few reports come through
support it was an issue.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps

>


From tom at makeshyft.com  Sun Jan  6 21:56:21 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 21:56:21 -0500
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG-gD2X6mzbrC=EX-X0Y8YKMPLmFM+TSX7v-qF9cchcpqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>
	<961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>
	<C216AACC-2641-4BDF-993F-8683F5541880@anvic.net>
	<CAPzQJL+WPtsAV0peVbzsP-ECETx-=TOTDcpiLcdyQ=UhBFOwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG-gD2X6mzbrC=EX-X0Y8YKMPLmFM+TSX7v-qF9cchcpqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKyYqe5VEy-33-zAhKGPis5kc_gZtJEkY04_4LGHGg6hQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for that confirmation Trevor great to hear that.

On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 9:45 PM Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 4:56 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Seems like signing the exec is a good idea and certainly can't
> hurt....and
> > if I have to write some emails to get whitelisted I can do that too.
>
>
> FWIW I always sign my Windows standalones and I haven?t had any reports of
> quarantine issues overs the years. I can?t say for sure that it isn?t
> happening, but my company?s software has had a fair number of Windows
> customers so I would think I would have had a few reports come through
> support it was an issue.
>
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From monte at appisle.net  Sun Jan  6 22:06:14 2019
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 14:06:14 +1100
Subject: Error in loading "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson"
In-Reply-To: <1D6F0E09-8BB6-4B2B-870C-83BBBCC3DD38@hindu.org>
References: <1D6F0E09-8BB6-4B2B-870C-83BBBCC3DD38@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <7872ACA3-589A-4C25-A2B5-1DBBF524E29E@appisle.net>

I?d start by making sure the json you are decoding is what you think it is by logging it or putting it into a text field.

> On 7 Jan 2019, at 1:28 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I did my first attempt to build a standalone of Mobile for Android in 9.0.2
> 
> I got this unusual never-saw-it-before message:
> 
> Remote: stack "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson": execution error at line n/a (External handler execution error: could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file) near "could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file"
> 
> The JSON files that load on init are valid JSON files
> 
> doesn?t happen on desktop? How do I debug this? 
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at hyperhh.de  Sun Jan  6 22:58:53 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 04:58:53 +0100
Subject: TestInStandalone v_100
Message-ID: <A447DEAE-50D8-4F22-8DFF-69D79DE161CF@hyperhh.de>


There is nearly no documentation in the dictionary what works (or works not)
in HTML5 standalones. That's why I made this tool:

Here is "hhTestInStandalone", a HTML5 standalone that is ready for testing
code snippets up to local libraries (script-only stacks).
I use it to isolate critical script parts that run in the IDE but not in the
HTML5 engine.

It has a LC-ScriptEditor (made in the browser) with a lot of features,
especially it can access the system clipboard for copy and paste and it has
code folding, colorising and indenting built-in.

? You can set the script of several buttons (or use these as text containers).
? You can output to two fields and import images in order to work with them.

See
(US) http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/hhTestInStandalone-9.0.2hhX.html
(EU) http://hyperhh.de/html5/hhTestInStandalone-9.0.2hhX.html

Enjoy!




From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Jan  6 23:09:45 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 04:09:45 +0000
Subject: Error in loading "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson"
In-Reply-To: <7872ACA3-589A-4C25-A2B5-1DBBF524E29E@appisle.net>
References: <1D6F0E09-8BB6-4B2B-870C-83BBBCC3DD38@hindu.org>,
	<7872ACA3-589A-4C25-A2B5-1DBBF524E29E@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <DM6PR14MB2811DA9EC37F16258DC7ABF5C5890@DM6PR14MB2811.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

But, it doesn?t, happen on desktop? Is there a difference between how json is handled on Android? The json file loaded at init validate on the web ...

Via mobile phone

________________________________
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 5:06 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Monte Goulding
Subject: Re: Error in loading "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson"

I?d start by making sure the json you are decoding is what you think it is by logging it or putting it into a text field.

> On 7 Jan 2019, at 1:28 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I did my first attempt to build a standalone of Mobile for Android in 9.0.2
>
> I got this unusual never-saw-it-before message:
>
> Remote: stack "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson": execution error at line n/a (External handler execution error: could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file) near "could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file"
>
> The JSON files that load on init are valid JSON files
>
> doesn?t happen on desktop? How do I debug this?
>
> BR
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Jan  7 01:34:48 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 00:34:48 -0600
Subject: Error in loading "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson"
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR14MB2811DA9EC37F16258DC7ABF5C5890@DM6PR14MB2811.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1D6F0E09-8BB6-4B2B-870C-83BBBCC3DD38@hindu.org>,
	<7872ACA3-589A-4C25-A2B5-1DBBF524E29E@appisle.net>
	<DM6PR14MB2811DA9EC37F16258DC7ABF5C5890@DM6PR14MB2811.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <16827055740.2783.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Incorrect line endings maybe? Do the files use Mac carriage returns?
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On 7 Jan 2019, at 1:28 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I got this unusual never-saw-it-before message:
>>
>> Remote: stack "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson": execution error at 
>> line n/a (External handler execution error: could not decode JSON: 
>> unexpected token near end of file) near "could not decode JSON: unexpected 
>> token near end of file"
>>
>> The JSON files that load on init are valid JSON files
>>
>> doesn?t happen on desktop? How do I debug this?
>>
>> BR





From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 03:16:56 2019
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:16:56 +1100
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>
References: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>
	<961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kjikt5q-OA6gO5i9TN71zX680qctL4jjETjV=37LSqT6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 4:26 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Simon Knight wrote:
>  > One question why does this thread refer to RQCC ?
>
Richard Replied:
> Old habits.  The bug database used to be called the "Revolution Quality
> Control Center", and the acronym is forever stuck in my typing fingers.

And a spookily well timed questions; it's as if the late great Bill
Marriot hearkens from the grave.  Bill was responsible for the focus
that took a very flakey Revolution, create the RQCC and develop what
is clearly a much more effective process for reporting, processing,
tracking and ultimately eliminating Bugs.  For those who were there
before Bill can attest, the Team these days does an extraordinary job
of Bug reduction.  Not perfect but a lot lot better than before the
RQCC.

I think tomorrow marks the anniversary of Bill's passing. RIP, and thank you.



From smk at anvic.net  Mon Jan  7 03:47:43 2019
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 08:47:43 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kjikt5q-OA6gO5i9TN71zX680qctL4jjETjV=37LSqT6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48E8B84F-9994-4717-9C00-92CE6C90BC17@anvic.net>
	<961d66d8-3a11-574e-6c6d-98cb5df0931a@fourthworld.com>
	<CA+uh5kjikt5q-OA6gO5i9TN71zX680qctL4jjETjV=37LSqT6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62D83FCE-911D-4B89-B237-FC40C545C780@anvic.net>


> On 7 Jan 2019, at 08:16, Kay C Lan via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> And a spookily well timed questions; it's as if the late great Bill
> Marriot hearkens from the grave.  Bill was responsible for the focus
> that took a very flakey Revolution, create the RQCC and develop what
> is clearly a much more effective process for reporting, processing,
> tracking and ultimately eliminating Bugs.  For those who were there
> before Bill can attest, the Team these days does an extraordinary job
> of Bug reduction.  Not perfect but a lot lot better than before the
> RQCC.

I don?t think that I am acting as a relay from the other side? 

but I do agree that the team does an extraordinary job of bug reduction while adding features and keeping on top of all the changes to the list of OS?s that livecode runs on.

Simon Knight



From beatco at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 07:09:22 2019
From: beatco at gmail.com (Beat Cornaz)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 13:09:22 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <CAEagrs0Sxh5JPM3NNEW3Jw_JNo5x3GW=gBAbpx7aJ3d2FgPGXw@mail.gmail.com>

I have asked this befor, but for the first time did not get any answer on
my post. So I hope you don't mind that I try again :-)

How do I get the RGB color of a pixel of an image? I know the function the
MouseColor, which gives me the RGB numbers under the cursor. What I need is
to get the RGB of a specific screen location - I need to make an avarage of
e.g. 5x5 pixels. So how do I get the RGB numbers of e.g. location  "30,200"?

Cheers, Beat


From iphonelagi at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 08:29:00 2019
From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 13:29:00 +0000
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
In-Reply-To: <CAEagrs0Sxh5JPM3NNEW3Jw_JNo5x3GW=gBAbpx7aJ3d2FgPGXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEagrs0Sxh5JPM3NNEW3Jw_JNo5x3GW=gBAbpx7aJ3d2FgPGXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1h1VBPJPVb8xLrVpwfgrVLjGk6eCYgALRnbnb+M48eThumQA@mail.gmail.com>

Seems like it was answered the same day by Phil Davis

Lagi

Phil Davis via use-livecode
Mon, 31 Dec 2018, 17:51 (7 days ago)
to Beat, Phil
set the screenMouseLoc to globalLoc(tLocWithinMyStack)
put the mouseColor into tTheColorAtThatScreenLoc

Phil Davis

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 12:10, Beat Cornaz via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have asked this befor, but for the first time did not get any answer on
> my post. So I hope you don't mind that I try again :-)
>
> How do I get the RGB color of a pixel of an image? I know the function the
> MouseColor, which gives me the RGB numbers under the cursor. What I need is
> to get the RGB of a specific screen location - I need to make an avarage of
> e.g. 5x5 pixels. So how do I get the RGB numbers of e.g. location
> "30,200"?
>
> Cheers, Beat
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From brahma at hindu.org  Mon Jan  7 08:32:18 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 13:32:18 +0000
Subject: Error in loading "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson"
In-Reply-To: <7872ACA3-589A-4C25-A2B5-1DBBF524E29E@appisle.net>
References: <1D6F0E09-8BB6-4B2B-870C-83BBBCC3DD38@hindu.org>
	<7872ACA3-589A-4C25-A2B5-1DBBF524E29E@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <08E58A4B-AA35-4C40-899E-0A1C4803BB95@hindu.org>

On desktop: No problem
Installed in iOS, iPhone 7 with 12.1.2: no problem
Only Android do you get the message:

Remote: stack "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson": execution error at line n/a (External handler execution error: could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file) near "could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file"

The JSON files are all validating at "JSONvalidate.com"  .... 

They are encoded a UTF-8 with unix line endings (the same file have been in use for months) 

I suspect something new in 9.0.2 . will have to check with an olders verions of livecode later today.


Brahmanathaswami
 

? Monte Goulding wrote:

    I?d start by making sure the json you are decoding is what you think it is by logging it or putting it into a text field.
    
    >On 7 Jan 2019, at 1:28 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
    >I did my first attempt to build a standalone of Mobile for Android in 9.0.2
    >I got this unusual never-saw-it-before message:
    >Remote: stack "ws.goulding.script-library.mergjson": execution error at line n/a (External handler execution error: could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file) near "could not decode JSON: unexpected token near end of file"
    >The JSON files that load on init are valid JSON files
    >doesn?t happen on desktop? How do I debug this? 
    >BR


From hh at hyperhh.de  Mon Jan  7 08:34:32 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 14:34:32 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <BF53446F-0E49-44E2-9BCD-9163929BA332@hyperhh.de>

Try

if there is no img "temp" then create invisible img "temp"
export snapshot from rect <rectangle> to img "temp" as PNG

Then average the imagedata of that image. If you would
like to use transparency then also use the alphadata.

This is for desktop, on mobile there are some specials
(see the dictionary).

> I have asked this before, but for the first time did not
> get any answer on my post.

There is also the forum http://forums.livecode.com !!



From dunbarx at aol.com  Mon Jan  7 09:34:39 2019
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarxx)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 08:34:39 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
In-Reply-To: <CAEagrs0Sxh5JPM3NNEW3Jw_JNo5x3GW=gBAbpx7aJ3d2FgPGXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEagrs0Sxh5JPM3NNEW3Jw_JNo5x3GW=gBAbpx7aJ3d2FgPGXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1546871679521-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

A kluge, but couldn't you:

on mouseUp
   set the screenMouseLoc to "200,200"
   answer the mouseColor
end mouseUp

I just threw this together, so you might want to restore the original
mouseLoc, and locking the screen might be useful.

Craig Newman



--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From hh at hyperhh.de  Mon Jan  7 08:20:32 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 14:20:32 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <25340CE9-2C4C-40E0-8D54-41CC60EC6EB7@hyperhh.de>

Try

if there is no img "temp" then create invisible img "temp"
export snapshot from rect <rectangle> to img "temp" as PNG

Then average the imagedata of that image. If you would
like to use transparency then also use the alphadata.

This is for desktop, on mobile there are some specials
(see the dictionary).

> I have asked this before, but for the first time did not
> get any answer on my post.

There is also the forum http://forums.livecode.com !!



From hh at hyperhh.de  Mon Jan  7 10:02:36 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:02:36 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <BA98C835-9DFF-456A-ADA8-308532FFF3E2@hyperhh.de>

> Beat C. wrote:
> What I need is to get the RGB of a specific screen
> location - I need to make an avarage of e.g. 5x5 pixels.

Make a new small stack with a button. Script it as given below.
On mouseUp the average is taken from the 5x5-rect left of the topleft
of your stack.

----- begin button script
local t="temp"

-- hL,vL is the topleft of the pixel-rect on your screen
-- the width  of the pixel-rect is w. W is an integer >= 1.
-- the height of the pixel-rect is h. H is an integer >= 1.
-- average color is taken from the pixel-colors of rect (hL,vL,hL+w,vL+h)
function averageColor w,h,hL,vL
   export snapshot from rect (hL,vL,hL+w,vL+h) to img t as PNG
   put the rect of img t &" / " &the width of img t,the height of img t into fld "OUT"
   put the imagedata of img t into iData
   put the imagedata of img t into aData
   repeat with i=1 to w*h
      put byteToNum(byte 4*i-2 of iData) into redA[i]
      put byteToNum(byte 4*i-1 of iData) into greenA[i]
      put byteToNum(byte 4*i   of iData) into blueA[i]
      put byteToNum(byte i     of aData) into alphaA[i]
   end repeat
   return trunc(avg(redA)),trunc(avg(greenA)),trunc(avg(blueA)),trunc(avg(alphaA))
end averageColor

on mouseUp
   lock screen; lock messages
   put 5 into w0; put 5 into h0
   put -w0+the left of this stack into sL 
   put -h0+the top of this stack into sT -- = without window bar
   ####
   if there is no img "temp" then create invisible img t
   if there is no field t then
      create fld t
      set rect of fld t to (0,0,128,23)
      set botleft of fld t to the botright of me
   end if
   if there is no grc t then
      create grc t
      set opaque of grc t to true
      set rect of grc t to (0,0,23,23)
      set botright of grc t to the botleft of me
   end if
   ####
   put averageColor(w0,h0,sL,sT) into x --> returns r,g,b,alpha
   #### use x, for example:
   set backColor of grc t to item 1 to 3 of x
   -- set blendlevel of grc t to round(100*(1-(item 4 of x)/255)) -- if wanted
   put x into fld t
   unlock screen; unlock messages
end mouseUp

--- end button script


From hh at hyperhh.de  Mon Jan  7 10:08:58 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:08:58 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <F0BD0566-142B-4456-8935-8FF36D6257C3@hyperhh.de>

Sorry, my last post had a typo. Now it is correct.

> Beat C. wrote:
> What I need is to get the RGB of a specific screen
> location - I need to make an avarage of e.g. 5x5 pixels.

Make a new small stack with a button. Script it as given below.
On mouseUp the average is taken from the 5x5-rect left of the topleft
of your stack.

----- begin button script
local t="temp"

-- hL,vL is the topleft of the pixel-rect on your screen.
-- the width  of the pixel-rect is w. W is an integer >= 1.
-- the height of the pixel-rect is h. H is an integer >= 1.
-- average color is taken from the pixel-colors of rect (hL,vL,hL+w,vL+h)
function averageColor w,h,hL,vL
 export snapshot from rect (hL,vL,hL+w,vL+h) to img t as PNG
 put the rect of img t &" / " &the width of img t,the height of img t into fld "OUT"
 put the imagedata of img t into iData
 put the alphadata of img t into aData
 repeat with i=1 to w*h
    put byteToNum(byte 4*i-2 of iData) into redA[i]
    put byteToNum(byte 4*i-1 of iData) into greenA[i]
    put byteToNum(byte 4*i   of iData) into blueA[i]
    put byteToNum(byte i     of aData) into alphaA[i]
 end repeat
 return trunc(avg(redA)),trunc(avg(greenA)),trunc(avg(blueA)),trunc(avg(alphaA))
end averageColor

on mouseUp
 lock screen; lock messages
 put 5 into w0; put 5 into h0
 put -w0+the left of this stack into sL 
 put -h0+the top of this stack into sT -- = without window bar
 ####
 if there is no img "temp" then create invisible img t
 if there is no field t then
    create fld t
    set rect of fld t to (0,0,128,23)
    set botleft of fld t to the botright of me
 end if
 if there is no grc t then
    create grc t
    set opaque of grc t to true
    set rect of grc t to (0,0,23,23)
    set botright of grc t to the botleft of me
 end if
 ####
 put averageColor(w0,h0,sL,sT) into x --> returns r,g,b,alpha
 #### use x, for example:
 set backColor of grc t to item 1 to 3 of x
 -- set blendlevel of grc t to round(100*(1-(item 4 of x)/255)) -- if wanted
 put x into fld t
 unlock screen; unlock messages
end mouseUp

--- end button script


From hh at hyperhh.de  Mon Jan  7 10:06:47 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:06:47 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <A1CCC589-A5EA-4B59-AE55-C95D8FAD966D@hyperhh.de>

Sorry, my last post had a typo. Now it is correct.

> Beat C. wrote:
> What I need is to get the RGB of a specific screen
> location - I need to make an avarage of e.g. 5x5 pixels.

Make a new small stack with a button. Script it as given below.
On mouseUp the average is taken from the 5x5-rect left of the topleft
of your stack.

----- begin button script
local t="temp"

-- hL,vL is the topleft of the pixel-rect on your screen.
-- the width  of the pixel-rect is w. W is an integer >= 1.
-- the height of the pixel-rect is h. H is an integer >= 1.
-- average color is taken from the pixel-colors of rect (hL,vL,hL+w,vL+h)
function averageColor w,h,hL,vL
  export snapshot from rect (hL,vL,hL+w,vL+h) to img t as PNG
  put the rect of img t &" / " &the width of img t,the height of img t into fld "OUT"
  put the imagedata of img t into iData
  put the alphadata of img t into aData
  repeat with i=1 to w*h
     put byteToNum(byte 4*i-2 of iData) into redA[i]
     put byteToNum(byte 4*i-1 of iData) into greenA[i]
     put byteToNum(byte 4*i   of iData) into blueA[i]
     put byteToNum(byte i     of aData) into alphaA[i]
  end repeat
  return trunc(avg(redA)),trunc(avg(greenA)),trunc(avg(blueA)),trunc(avg(alphaA))
end averageColor

on mouseUp
  lock screen; lock messages
  put 5 into w0; put 5 into h0
  put -w0+the left of this stack into sL 
  put -h0+the top of this stack into sT -- = without window bar
  ####
  if there is no img "temp" then create invisible img t
  if there is no field t then
     create fld t
     set rect of fld t to (0,0,128,23)
     set botleft of fld t to the botright of me
  end if
  if there is no grc t then
     create grc t
     set opaque of grc t to true
     set rect of grc t to (0,0,23,23)
     set botright of grc t to the botleft of me
  end if
  ####
  put averageColor(w0,h0,sL,sT) into x --> returns r,g,b,alpha
  #### use x, for example:
  set backColor of grc t to item 1 to 3 of x
  -- set blendlevel of grc t to round(100*(1-(item 4 of x)/255)) -- if wanted
  put x into fld t
  unlock screen; unlock messages
end mouseUp

--- end button script


From hh at hyperhh.de  Mon Jan  7 10:43:57 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:43:57 +0100
Subject: Double posting
Message-ID: <CE4049C7-0297-4452-8D21-B7F1E04A41F3@hyperhh.de>

Sorry for my several double postings. This was a problem with my email server.


From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon Jan  7 10:47:01 2019
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 17:47:01 +0200
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 162
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_nnC8BK5axzL4Fa_W7-dcbGgR3tLOSyfZyEnCFsRe5yQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #162 here: https://goo.gl/udm5wo

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan  7 11:28:03 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:28:03 +0000
Subject: file: vs bibfile: usage?
In-Reply-To: <c8256a09-39f1-4ba7-a3d8-0f02314f3592@Spark>
References: <c7c6dacc-4e63-033a-9d2c-7e767c6eae6e@researchware.com>
	<c8256a09-39f1-4ba7-a3d8-0f02314f3592@Spark>
Message-ID: <40D6ECA8-754E-48BE-89B6-B7CA3A5C647E@iotecdigital.com>

This is a perennial problem. My personal opinion is that unless a user explicitly wants to alter the line endings in a file, no assumptions should be made by the developer in this regard. A classic example (at least for me) is working with files exported from copiers. Let's say I want to export the email addresses from a Toshiba copier, edit them in a spreadsheet, then re-import them back into the copier. Simply OPENING the text file, in TextEdit or Word on a Mac OS will convert the line endings to the Mac defaults, EVEN IF I DO NOT SAVE THE FILE!!! Now the Toshiba copier will reject the file because it is expecting line feeds and it has CRLFs instead. So I have to edit these files in a Windows VM or I break them. 

Bob S


> On Jan 4, 2019, at 10:07 , Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On a Mac you have to use binfile if you want the appropriate line endings (LF)* as file will change them to the legacy version (CR).  On Windows, you probably still want to use file so that the line endings are adjusted to CRLF.  UTF recognizes both as valid (CRLF and LF), not sure about CR.
> 
> * I use Xcode as my justification to say that LF is proper.  It is the line ending used there.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan  7 11:30:42 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:30:42 +0000
Subject: Double posting
In-Reply-To: <CE4049C7-0297-4452-8D21-B7F1E04A41F3@hyperhh.de>
References: <CE4049C7-0297-4452-8D21-B7F1E04A41F3@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <D68AA048-D07A-447B-A698-0DEF0AFDCC1B@iotecdigital.com>

No problem. No problem. ;-)

Bob S


> On Jan 7, 2019, at 07:43 , hh via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry for my several double postings. This was a problem with my email server.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan  7 11:41:08 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:41:08 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <6b40ec4c-3d2c-3bff-fb5a-4bf7237789dc@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAPzQJLJJJrQ=eQvxjH4a0Asz3e85uZj5EemH2aic9dprfUHubA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6b40ec4c-3d2c-3bff-fb5a-4bf7237789dc@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <87A9825D-1CFA-4D22-AC18-96D1B3AE64A7@iotecdigital.com>

We disable Windows Defender via group policy. A lot of IT administrators do. It's not that it's a bad product, it's that there are alternatives in the marketplace that provide a great many more features, like central management and distribution of policies, which can universally whitelist folders on all domain controlled workstations. 

For the non-domain systems in a small office with a limited budget, Defender is a great solution as an endpoint malware product. However, these are the issues they will encounter, not just with LC apps but with others. 

Bob S


> On Jan 6, 2019, at 09:46 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Tom Glod wrote:
> 
> > Hi folks, I'd like to know if there is any chance that the issues with
> > windows defender interfering in the normal operation of the LiveCode
> > engine is something that can and will be looked at?
> >
> > Is there any communication between Microsoft and Livecode inc?
> >
> > Is there any hope that we won't have to put an * beside on our
> > application requirements?
> >
> > Its just not an acceptable workaround to ask customers to disable
> > windows defender.
> 
> Panos has found that the issue is specific to Windows Defender's "Real Time Protection":
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604
> 
> It would be great if LC were the only app affected by this, so the LC team could fix it.  But looking 'round the web I find that this is tragically pervasive:
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+defender+slowing+apps
> 
> That said, it does not appear to be completely universal; that is, some apps manage to avoid the wrath of Real Time Protection.
> 
> My comment #10 in that bug report asks what LC may be able to do to avoid the impact of this Microsoft bug.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jan  7 12:00:17 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 09:00:17 -0800
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <62D83FCE-911D-4B89-B237-FC40C545C780@anvic.net>
References: <62D83FCE-911D-4B89-B237-FC40C545C780@anvic.net>
Message-ID: <36b65f8e-b8ea-f74b-95cd-f66683168315@fourthworld.com>

Simon Knight wrote:

 > ...I do agree that the team does an extraordinary job of bug
 > reduction while adding features and keeping on top of all the
 > changes to the list of OS?s that livecode runs on.

LC v9 is particularly strong in this regard.

We have some in our community who've dreamed of a major release that 
focuses exclusively on handling legacy issues that have cropped up.  But 
there are also a great many customers who need new features.

LC v9 adds many features for each of the platforms, including one of my 
favorites, replacing the older sha1Digest with messageDigest for easier 
extensibility, and taking advantage of that extensibility right out of 
the starting gate with sha2 and sha3 hash options.  Now we can build 
password management systems as well as the best of them.

Another key item is the much smarter integration into host OS 
look-and-feel with fine-tuned control appearance, especially with regard 
to label baseline placement.  And with that came new textFont options 
allowing us a range of ways we can adopt system fonts across platforms 
and platform versions with a single property setting.

Perhaps the biggest flaw I've seen with v9 is the bug report tracking: 
the Release Notes only include a subset of all issues addressed since 
work began on it two years ago.  My understanding from conversations 
with team members is that v9 may well have the largest number of 
resolved bugs of any release, an amazing feat considering the scope of 
new features and feature refinements, including huge strides forward 
with many aspects of performance.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From hakan at exformedia.se  Mon Jan  7 12:04:41 2019
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 18:04:41 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
In-Reply-To: <1546871679521-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <CAEagrs0Sxh5JPM3NNEW3Jw_JNo5x3GW=gBAbpx7aJ3d2FgPGXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546871679521-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <2e46dafe-2f3a-4889-a1b7-ebd34019d437@Spark>

Well, he could, if he didn?t wanted an average value of some more pixels, and, calculating an average via screenMouseLoc is really slow. Exporting a rect to an image is fairly quick though

Found the following in a stack:

# Calculates the average color value for an image
# pID should be the long id of the image we want to get the?average?from
function imageAverageValue pID
? ?put the imageData of pID into tData
? ?put the number of bytes of tData / 4 into tNumPixels
? ?# Sum all pixel values
? ?repeat with i = 0 to tNumPixels - 1
? ? ? add byteToNum(byte i*4 + 2 of tData) to tResult["red"]
? ? ? add byteToNum(byte i*4 + 3 of tData) to tResult["green"]
? ? ? add byteToNum(byte i*4 + 4 of tData) to tResult["blue"]
? ?end repeat
? ?# Calculate mean value
? ?repeat for each item anItem in "red,green,blue"
? ? ? put round(tResult[anItem] / tNumPixels) into tResult[anItem]
? ?end repeat
? ?return tResult["red"], tResult["green"], tResult["blue"]
end imageAverageValue

So to get the mouse average color in a square ? 2px from the mouseLoc we could do:

function getMouseAverageColor pSize
? ?if pSize is empty then put 2 into pSize
? ?put globalLoc(the mouseLoc) into tLoc
? ?if there is no image "averageColor" then create invisible image "averageColor"
? ?put the long id of image "averageColor" into tID
? ?export snapshot from rectangle item 1 of tLoc - pSize, item 2 of tLoc - pSize, ?\
? ? ? ? ?item 1 of tLoc + pSize, item 2 of tLoc + pSize to image "averageColor"
? ?return imageAverageValue(tID)
end getMouseAvaregeColor

Happy coding!

:-H?kan
On 7 Jan 2019, 15:35 +0100, dunbarxx via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> A kluge, but couldn't you:
>
> on mouseUp
> set the screenMouseLoc to "200,200"
> answer the mouseColor
> end mouseUp
>
> I just threw this together, so you might want to restore the original
> mouseLoc, and locking the screen might be useful.
>
> Craig Newman
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hakan at exformedia.se  Mon Jan  7 12:04:41 2019
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 18:04:41 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
In-Reply-To: <1546871679521-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <CAEagrs0Sxh5JPM3NNEW3Jw_JNo5x3GW=gBAbpx7aJ3d2FgPGXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1546871679521-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <2e46dafe-2f3a-4889-a1b7-ebd34019d437@Spark>

Well, he could, if he didn?t wanted an average value of some more pixels, and, calculating an average via screenMouseLoc is really slow. Exporting a rect to an image is fairly quick though

Found the following in a stack:

# Calculates the average color value for an image
# pID should be the long id of the image we want to get the?average?from
function imageAverageValue pID
? ?put the imageData of pID into tData
? ?put the number of bytes of tData / 4 into tNumPixels
? ?# Sum all pixel values
? ?repeat with i = 0 to tNumPixels - 1
? ? ? add byteToNum(byte i*4 + 2 of tData) to tResult["red"]
? ? ? add byteToNum(byte i*4 + 3 of tData) to tResult["green"]
? ? ? add byteToNum(byte i*4 + 4 of tData) to tResult["blue"]
? ?end repeat
? ?# Calculate mean value
? ?repeat for each item anItem in "red,green,blue"
? ? ? put round(tResult[anItem] / tNumPixels) into tResult[anItem]
? ?end repeat
? ?return tResult["red"], tResult["green"], tResult["blue"]
end imageAverageValue

So to get the mouse average color in a square ? 2px from the mouseLoc we could do:

function getMouseAverageColor pSize
? ?if pSize is empty then put 2 into pSize
? ?put globalLoc(the mouseLoc) into tLoc
? ?if there is no image "averageColor" then create invisible image "averageColor"
? ?put the long id of image "averageColor" into tID
? ?export snapshot from rectangle item 1 of tLoc - pSize, item 2 of tLoc - pSize, ?\
? ? ? ? ?item 1 of tLoc + pSize, item 2 of tLoc + pSize to image "averageColor"
? ?return imageAverageValue(tID)
end getMouseAvaregeColor

Happy coding!

:-H?kan
On 7 Jan 2019, 15:35 +0100, dunbarxx via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> A kluge, but couldn't you:
>
> on mouseUp
> set the screenMouseLoc to "200,200"
> answer the mouseColor
> end mouseUp
>
> I just threw this together, so you might want to restore the original
> mouseLoc, and locking the screen might be useful.
>
> Craig Newman
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Mon Jan  7 12:05:42 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 11:05:42 -0600
Subject: file: vs bibfile: usage?
In-Reply-To: <40D6ECA8-754E-48BE-89B6-B7CA3A5C647E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <c7c6dacc-4e63-033a-9d2c-7e767c6eae6e@researchware.com>
	<c8256a09-39f1-4ba7-a3d8-0f02314f3592@Spark>
	<40D6ECA8-754E-48BE-89B6-B7CA3A5C647E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2e5dc271-a524-4908-9985-ac67d0ee35a8@Spark>

I just did a test on Sierra and TextEdit did not change LF to anything else. ?Mac should never convert to CRLF by default.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 7, 2019, 10:28 AM -0600, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> This is a perennial problem. My personal opinion is that unless a user explicitly wants to alter the line endings in a file, no assumptions should be made by the developer in this regard. A classic example (at least for me) is working with files exported from copiers. Let's say I want to export the email addresses from a Toshiba copier, edit them in a spreadsheet, then re-import them back into the copier. Simply OPENING the text file, in TextEdit or Word on a Mac OS will convert the line endings to the Mac defaults, EVEN IF I DO NOT SAVE THE FILE!!! Now the Toshiba copier will reject the file because it is expecting line feeds and it has CRLFs instead. So I have to edit these files in a Windows VM or I break them.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 4, 2019, at 10:07 , Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > On a Mac you have to use binfile if you want the appropriate line endings (LF)* as file will change them to the legacy version (CR). On Windows, you probably still want to use file so that the line endings are adjusted to CRLF. UTF recognizes both as valid (CRLF and LF), not sure about CR.
> >
> > * I use Xcode as my justification to say that LF is proper. It is the line ending used there.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jan  7 11:47:26 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 08:47:26 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <87A9825D-1CFA-4D22-AC18-96D1B3AE64A7@iotecdigital.com>
References: <87A9825D-1CFA-4D22-AC18-96D1B3AE64A7@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <df53bb34-13f4-2262-a385-5eb3a0c55ec1@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > We disable Windows Defender via group policy. A lot of IT
 > administrators do. It's not that it's a bad product, it's that
 > there are alternatives in the marketplace that provide a great
 > many more features, like central management and distribution
 > of policies, which can universally whitelist folders on all
 > domain controlled workstations.
 >
 > For the non-domain systems in a small office with a limited budget,
 > Defender is a great solution as an endpoint malware product. However,
 > these are the issues they will encounter, not just with LC apps but
 > with others.

Do you know what Defender is doing that other more full-featured 
packages aren't in terms of application performance impairment?

In my searches I've found many explanations of the impact of the 
problem, but nothing about its cause, not even whether Microsoft intends 
to repair Defender to work more efficiently.

I'm hoping we can pin down the difference between apps affected by 
Defender and those that run unimpaired, so we might consider whatever 
changes may be needed to LC to put it into the latter category.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan  7 13:01:08 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 18:01:08 +0000
Subject: file: vs bibfile: usage?
In-Reply-To: <2e5dc271-a524-4908-9985-ac67d0ee35a8@Spark>
References: <c7c6dacc-4e63-033a-9d2c-7e767c6eae6e@researchware.com>
	<c8256a09-39f1-4ba7-a3d8-0f02314f3592@Spark>
	<40D6ECA8-754E-48BE-89B6-B7CA3A5C647E@iotecdigital.com>
	<2e5dc271-a524-4908-9985-ac67d0ee35a8@Spark>
Message-ID: <EEAA961A-4487-4DB5-9AA3-E6102A5E85F7@iotecdigital.com>

I haven't tried it in a good long while. Maybe they changed that behavior. I'll give it another go as firing up my VM is a little bit of a hassle if I can do it natively. 

Bob S


> On Jan 7, 2019, at 09:05 , Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I just did a test on Sierra and TextEdit did not change LF to anything else.  Mac should never convert to CRLF by default.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan  7 13:09:41 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 18:09:41 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <df53bb34-13f4-2262-a385-5eb3a0c55ec1@fourthworld.com>
References: <87A9825D-1CFA-4D22-AC18-96D1B3AE64A7@iotecdigital.com>
	<df53bb34-13f4-2262-a385-5eb3a0c55ec1@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DC9A67A6-5EA6-4BBD-99E9-BD923CB8EF3E@iotecdigital.com>

No, but I can guess that it is much as has been posted prior to this. Virtually all malware deterrent products use subscription based services, and many of them get their malware signature data from the same sources. False positives are not unheard of, although I suspect they are fairly rare. 

We had an app that was generating a false positive in the AV module in our gateway/routers. Not only could I not copy the installer from the server to the local workstation I was trying to install on, but just opening a folder on the server from a remote location would cause the WAN connection to reset! I didn't connect the dots and couldn't figure out why my folders kept delisting their contents from remote sites until some time later! Informing the developer AND the subscriptions service eventually resolved the issue. 

If we had a list of all LC apps that were failing, along with a list of the libraries they used, we might be able to do a little detective work and figure out what library is causing an issue. Otherwise, it may simply be a matter of setting a dummy apps libraries to not automatically detect, and add one library at a time, rebuilding each time, in order to isolate the errant library. As I understand the problem, not all apps are suffering from this? 

Bob S


> On Jan 7, 2019, at 08:47 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
> > We disable Windows Defender via group policy. A lot of IT
> > administrators do. It's not that it's a bad product, it's that
> > there are alternatives in the marketplace that provide a great
> > many more features, like central management and distribution
> > of policies, which can universally whitelist folders on all
> > domain controlled workstations.
> >
> > For the non-domain systems in a small office with a limited budget,
> > Defender is a great solution as an endpoint malware product. However,
> > these are the issues they will encounter, not just with LC apps but
> > with others.
> 
> Do you know what Defender is doing that other more full-featured packages aren't in terms of application performance impairment?
> 
> In my searches I've found many explanations of the impact of the problem, but nothing about its cause, not even whether Microsoft intends to repair Defender to work more efficiently.
> 
> I'm hoping we can pin down the difference between apps affected by Defender and those that run unimpaired, so we might consider whatever changes may be needed to LC to put it into the latter category.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin




From jerry at jhjensen.com  Mon Jan  7 13:17:12 2019
From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:17:12 -0800
Subject: file: vs bibfile: usage?
In-Reply-To: <40D6ECA8-754E-48BE-89B6-B7CA3A5C647E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <c7c6dacc-4e63-033a-9d2c-7e767c6eae6e@researchware.com>
	<c8256a09-39f1-4ba7-a3d8-0f02314f3592@Spark>
	<40D6ECA8-754E-48BE-89B6-B7CA3A5C647E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <4ED58F3D-9E88-4540-98CC-CC1B52B9BFC6@jhjensen.com>

On a mac, BBEdit or its older cousin TextWrangler will preserve line endings. It just works. You can also easily change endings with a pull-down menu. That stoppedl me from whining about the price. They also have good tech support.
.Jerry

> On Jan 7, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> This is a perennial problem. My personal opinion is that unless a user explicitly wants to alter the line endings in a file, no assumptions should be made by the developer in this regard. A classic example (at least for me) is working with files exported from copiers. Let's say I want to export the email addresses from a Toshiba copier, edit them in a spreadsheet, then re-import them back into the copier. Simply OPENING the text file, in TextEdit or Word on a Mac OS will convert the line endings to the Mac defaults, EVEN IF I DO NOT SAVE THE FILE!!! Now the Toshiba copier will reject the file because it is expecting line feeds and it has CRLFs instead. So I have to edit these files in a Windows VM or I break them. 
> 
> Bob S



From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan  7 14:12:21 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 14:12:21 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <df53bb34-13f4-2262-a385-5eb3a0c55ec1@fourthworld.com>
References: <df53bb34-13f4-2262-a385-5eb3a0c55ec1@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <e89113bc-d27c-f027-30f4-3cfabd3218bd@pair.com>


As I've (seriously) joked previously in my bug 21604 report that has 
been referenced already in this thread:

Since Windows Defender is fairly unlikely to be the oh-so-sneaky culprit 
when similar issues show up running the LC 9 Script Editor on the Mac 
platform, :D therefore it's highly doubtful that this is strictly an AV 
industry issue. Viewing it as such could even delay a permanent cure.

Fortunately, disabling Windows Defender's real-time virus options is a 
great fix for the symptoms. And like a good cold medicine, that is a 
huge relief! Currently I'm using a third-party AV (with some of its 
options tweaks as well) so in Windows Defender Security Center, "Virus & 
threat protection" is overridden by the other product. But "Firewall & 
network protection" and "App and browser control" and "Device security" 
are still fully enabled. It's NOT a good idea to disable the whole 
shebang, especially firewall. Be sure to have some form of AV installed. 
(I also had bad results with McAfee, which is what came pre-installed 
with my computer.)

As I've also predicted previously in that bug report, it's a 
better-than-average bet that the LC 9 Script Editor is not using the 
best practices in some areas, because merely typing usually does not 
cause problems in most other apps on a fully Windows-Defended system, 
not to mention Macs. Per common sense and best coding practices, the 
actions taken by the IDE while we are merely typing and selecting text 
ideally should not open the doors to get AntiVirus products involved 
continually. Actions that may get vetted by AV, or that may use greater 
system resources, need to be considered carefully in terms of approach, 
timing, and responsiveness.

Thus, easing the symptoms (quick relief!) may be different than a 
permanent cure (no more of this trouble, plus improved performance as a 
bonus). The cure would probably make the SE snappier for all users, even 
those who never had problems. It would also head off any possible future 
issues in case other Operating Systems decide to imitate some of the 
Defender type features. It wouldn't be the first time one OS followed 
the lead of another.

It's important not to conflate two very different problems that have 
been discussed relating to Windows Defender. One is getting the 
"jitters" and having trouble typing, copy/pasting, etc in the LC 9 
Script Editor. The IDE itself is affected, and presumably may be the 
cause. This is the problem that I predict is fairly likely to be more of 
a code design issue than an AV issue.

The other problem is apps and their files being flagged or completely 
blocked by AV, which is a different and more common problem in the 
software world, and very much an AV and file trust issue.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jan  7 14:23:48 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 11:23:48 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <DC9A67A6-5EA6-4BBD-99E9-BD923CB8EF3E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <DC9A67A6-5EA6-4BBD-99E9-BD923CB8EF3E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <265e0a91-1b58-f8f9-ee36-19f7af8f3905@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > Richard wrote:
 >> > Do you know what Defender is doing that other more full-featured
 >> packages aren't in terms of application performance impairment?
 >
 > No, but I can guess that it is much as has been posted prior to this.
 > Virtually all malware deterrent products use subscription based
 > services, and many of them get their malware signature data from the
 > same sources. False positives are not unheard of...

This conversation has spawned two different issues, conflated here.

The issue with false positives was raised by Tom Glod, and I've seen 
that once in a while too.

But the issue with Windows Defender is very different.  Defender isn't 
preventing LC from running at all, or (at least as far as anyone has 
reported to date) even flagging it as a false positive.  Instead, it 
merely slows down execution.  And if we search around on the web see a 
great many apps affected similarly.

False positives I can understand.  Inexplicable slowdowns are the big 
mystery.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jan  7 15:45:05 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:45:05 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <e89113bc-d27c-f027-30f4-3cfabd3218bd@pair.com>
References: <e89113bc-d27c-f027-30f4-3cfabd3218bd@pair.com>
Message-ID: <4db1f2d1-dd43-b047-5112-95488747244d@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

> Since Windows Defender is fairly unlikely to be the oh-so-sneaky 
> culprit when similar issues show up running the LC 9 Script Editor on
> the Mac platform...

And now the issue has become doubly conflated.

To review, there are two issues in this thread:

a) Windows Defenders "Real Time Protection" is widely documented
    across the Internet to have caused unusual slowdowns in a great
    many applications. LiveCode is one of those applications.

    My interest here is in seeking details on the cause of that
    Microsoft issue so we may determine if there's an opportunity
    to modify something in LC to move it from the category of
    known affected apps to those that are unaffected.


b) Some third-party AV packages will from time to time flag LC apps
    with false positives, easily remedied by working with those vendors.


With your addition, we now have a third concern introduced unrelated to 
AV handling:

c) The performance optimization efforts demonstrably under way with
    LC's v9 series are not yet complete.


If the performance issues you're seeing on your Mac are equal or greater
than those seen by bug reporters on the issue which is the topic of this
thread, that is notable of course but the subject of a separate
discussion.  Any Mac-specific issues merit their own bug report as well, 
just like the one we're discussing here which you had flagged as a 
Windows issue (#21604), and which led to the discovery of the 
contributory effect of Windows Defender.

While it is apparently of great interest to discuss more general
performance issues in any thread where the topic may be plausibly
inserted, there is a key factor with the subject at hand which you may 
not have noticed in the comments in your bug report:

Those who have disabled Windows Defender's Real Time Protection find the
issue immediately resolved.

Yes, as discussed at length in so many other threads, other
opportunities exist to further optimize LiveCode beyond the significant
gains made in the v8 and v9 series thus far.  So we would expect
evidence of remaining issues to show themselves on other platforms than
the one we're discussing here.  You may consider starting new threads on 
new subjects of interest to you.

Back on topic in this thread, I agree with your assessment here, that if 
there is an opportunity to alter LC so that it no longer triggers this 
well known Microsoft bug, it probably isn't in the script editor:

> As I've also predicted previously in that bug report, it's a 
> better-than-average bet that the LC 9 Script Editor is not using the 
> best practices in some areas, because merely typing usually does not 
> cause problems in most other apps on a fully Windows-Defended
> system, not to mention Macs. Per common sense and best coding
> practices, the actions taken by the IDE while we are merely typing
> and selecting text ideally should not open the doors to get AntiVirus
> products involved continually. Actions that may get vetted by AV, or
> that may use greater system resources, need to be considered
> carefully in terms of approach, timing, and responsiveness.

I would not be so quick to cast such sweeping judgment on the quality of 
the work the LiveCode team produces, but the suggestion that the Script 
Editor is not the cause of Microsoft's issue with Defender does indeed 
seem reasonable.

I mentioned the Script Editor as a recipe because its requirements tend 
to expose issues affecting performance, whether we're discussing those 
specific to Windows Defender as in this thread, or other specific 
opportunities for improvement cataloged elsewhere.

Hopefully this thread may leverage the collective experience of the 
community to find insight into the underlying triggers for the Defender 
issue we're discussing here.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From stephen at barncard.com  Mon Jan  7 16:19:30 2019
From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 13:19:30 -0800
Subject: file: vs bibfile: usage?
In-Reply-To: <4ED58F3D-9E88-4540-98CC-CC1B52B9BFC6@jhjensen.com>
References: <c7c6dacc-4e63-033a-9d2c-7e767c6eae6e@researchware.com>
	<c8256a09-39f1-4ba7-a3d8-0f02314f3592@Spark>
	<40D6ECA8-754E-48BE-89B6-B7CA3A5C647E@iotecdigital.com>
	<4ED58F3D-9E88-4540-98CC-CC1B52B9BFC6@jhjensen.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfHLMF068c7bEst8Q3V1gxQdVFX3H5-RN_PYa+5WP6V7HKQ@mail.gmail.com>

yeah I re-discovered (and paid second license for) BBEdit. They were the
first programmer's editor on mac, although I was partial to TEX-edit, which
had some cool text features nobody else had... like ways of identifying
mystery invisible characters.  I haven't tried it in years, I wonder about
it's handling of Unicode.
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 10:17 AM Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On a mac, BBEdit or its older cousin TextWrangler will preserve line
> endings. It just works. You can also easily change endings with a pull-down
> menu. That stoppedl me from whining about the price. They also have good
> tech support.
> .Jerry
>
> > On Jan 7, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > This is a perennial problem. My personal opinion is that unless a user
> explicitly wants to alter the line endings in a file, no assumptions should
> be made by the developer in this regard. A classic example (at least for
> me) is working with files exported from copiers. Let's say I want to export
> the email addresses from a Toshiba copier, edit them in a spreadsheet, then
> re-import them back into the copier. Simply OPENING the text file, in
> TextEdit or Word on a Mac OS will convert the line endings to the Mac
> defaults, EVEN IF I DO NOT SAVE THE FILE!!! Now the Toshiba copier will
> reject the file because it is expecting line feeds and it has CRLFs
> instead. So I have to edit these files in a Windows VM or I break them.
> >
> > Bob S
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From jjs at krutt.org  Mon Jan  7 17:06:26 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 23:06:26 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <4db1f2d1-dd43-b047-5112-95488747244d@fourthworld.com>
References: <e89113bc-d27c-f027-30f4-3cfabd3218bd@pair.com>
	<4db1f2d1-dd43-b047-5112-95488747244d@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <0a3926df-5b4b-977e-2439-a62922a67750@krutt.org>

Speed, what are we talking about? milliseconds?

It depends on where you need speed for.

Overall i find it working great with enough speed.

I work with a very known American company, and the software they use is 
about to cry. screen flickers, it's as slow as hell and everybody has to 
work with it, period. It was introduced about 3 years ago.

It's probably written in C. Waiting for screen updates can take up to 10 
to 20 seconds. And they use it worldwide, the mainservers are in the US.

And they don't give a sh*t that everyone hates it and complain, because 
they paid for it. And managers above managers...someone introduced it, 
holy grail, you know.


I added .rev .livescript and livecode.exe to Windows Defender and have 
not had an slow issue since and keeping fingers crossed.

Microsoft will probably not be interested that LC will run slow due to 
their product.


Op 7-1-2019 om 21:45 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
> Curry Kenworthy wrote:
>
>> Since Windows Defender is fairly unlikely to be the oh-so-sneaky 
>> culprit when similar issues show up running the LC 9 Script Editor on
>> the Mac platform...
>
> And now the issue has become doubly conflated.
>
> To review, there are two issues in this thread:
>
> a) Windows Defenders "Real Time Protection" is widely documented
> ?? across the Internet to have caused unusual slowdowns in a great
> ?? many applications. LiveCode is one of those applications.
>
> ?? My interest here is in seeking details on the cause of that
> ?? Microsoft issue so we may determine if there's an opportunity
> ?? to modify something in LC to move it from the category of
> ?? known affected apps to those that are unaffected.
>
>
> b) Some third-party AV packages will from time to time flag LC apps
> ?? with false positives, easily remedied by working with those vendors.
>
>
> With your addition, we now have a third concern introduced unrelated 
> to AV handling:
>
> c) The performance optimization efforts demonstrably under way with
> ?? LC's v9 series are not yet complete.
>
>
> If the performance issues you're seeing on your Mac are equal or greater
> than those seen by bug reporters on the issue which is the topic of this
> thread, that is notable of course but the subject of a separate
> discussion.? Any Mac-specific issues merit their own bug report as 
> well, just like the one we're discussing here which you had flagged as 
> a Windows issue (#21604), and which led to the discovery of the 
> contributory effect of Windows Defender.
>
> While it is apparently of great interest to discuss more general
> performance issues in any thread where the topic may be plausibly
> inserted, there is a key factor with the subject at hand which you may 
> not have noticed in the comments in your bug report:
>
> Those who have disabled Windows Defender's Real Time Protection find the
> issue immediately resolved.
>
> Yes, as discussed at length in so many other threads, other
> opportunities exist to further optimize LiveCode beyond the significant
> gains made in the v8 and v9 series thus far.? So we would expect
> evidence of remaining issues to show themselves on other platforms than
> the one we're discussing here.? You may consider starting new threads 
> on new subjects of interest to you.
>
> Back on topic in this thread, I agree with your assessment here, that 
> if there is an opportunity to alter LC so that it no longer triggers 
> this well known Microsoft bug, it probably isn't in the script editor:
>
>> As I've also predicted previously in that bug report, it's a 
>> better-than-average bet that the LC 9 Script Editor is not using the 
>> best practices in some areas, because merely typing usually does not 
>> cause problems in most other apps on a fully Windows-Defended
>> system, not to mention Macs. Per common sense and best coding
>> practices, the actions taken by the IDE while we are merely typing
>> and selecting text ideally should not open the doors to get AntiVirus
>> products involved continually. Actions that may get vetted by AV, or
>> that may use greater system resources, need to be considered
>> carefully in terms of approach, timing, and responsiveness.
>
> I would not be so quick to cast such sweeping judgment on the quality 
> of the work the LiveCode team produces, but the suggestion that the 
> Script Editor is not the cause of Microsoft's issue with Defender does 
> indeed seem reasonable.
>
> I mentioned the Script Editor as a recipe because its requirements 
> tend to expose issues affecting performance, whether we're discussing 
> those specific to Windows Defender as in this thread, or other 
> specific opportunities for improvement cataloged elsewhere.
>
> Hopefully this thread may leverage the collective experience of the 
> community to find insight into the underlying triggers for the 
> Defender issue we're discussing here.
>



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan  7 17:44:02 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 22:44:02 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <0a3926df-5b4b-977e-2439-a62922a67750@krutt.org>
References: <e89113bc-d27c-f027-30f4-3cfabd3218bd@pair.com>
	<4db1f2d1-dd43-b047-5112-95488747244d@fourthworld.com>
	<0a3926df-5b4b-977e-2439-a62922a67750@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <2E5DFC09-16A0-4DDD-ABCF-D1A802DBDD4F@iotecdigital.com>

Yes whitelisting is an option, but not for distributing apps. Well, not much of an option. Anytime you make users do something to their OS or AV to get your app to work, people get real nervous. 

Bob S


> On Jan 7, 2019, at 14:06 , JJS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Speed, what are we talking about? milliseconds?
> 
> It depends on where you need speed for.
> 
> Overall i find it working great with enough speed.
> 
> I work with a very known American company, and the software they use is about to cry. screen flickers, it's as slow as hell and everybody has to work with it, period. It was introduced about 3 years ago.
> 
> It's probably written in C. Waiting for screen updates can take up to 10 to 20 seconds. And they use it worldwide, the mainservers are in the US.
> 
> And they don't give a sh*t that everyone hates it and complain, because they paid for it. And managers above managers...someone introduced it, holy grail, you know.
> 
> 
> I added .rev .livescript and livecode.exe to Windows Defender and have not had an slow issue since and keeping fingers crossed.
> 
> Microsoft will probably not be interested that LC will run slow due to their product.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jan  7 18:09:45 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 15:09:45 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <0a3926df-5b4b-977e-2439-a62922a67750@krutt.org>
References: <0a3926df-5b4b-977e-2439-a62922a67750@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <6e0dd239-c082-4aaf-d54b-aa11c1a60455@fourthworld.com>

JJS wrote:
 > I added .rev .livescript and livecode.exe to Windows Defender and have
 > not had an slow issue since and keeping fingers crossed.

That's very valuable, thanks. So just to confirm, you did not need to 
turn off Real Time Protection, just exclude two file types and one EXE?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan  7 19:13:14 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:13:14 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <4db1f2d1-dd43-b047-5112-95488747244d@fourthworld.com>
References: <4db1f2d1-dd43-b047-5112-95488747244d@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <99b03ba4-d24c-4be4-47a1-627b222a299b@pair.com>


Richard:

 > And now the issue has become doubly conflated.
 > To review, there are two issues in this thread:

Yes, I happened to mention that initial conflation today BEFORE you did, 
with some slight differences. Your post shadowed mine.

 > With your addition, we now have a third concern introduced
 > unrelated to AV handling:
 > c) The performance optimization efforts demonstrably
 > under way with LC's v9 series are not yet complete.

Richard, it seems you're shooting just a little off the mark lately. 
It's quite unusual for you to be inaccurate, and I've known you for a 
long time. If you have any personal issue with me, accept my apologies 
and best regards, but whatever it may be, don't let any feelings throw 
off your reading and writing accuracy and honesty. Facts, statements, 
and chronology are all public for reference. Sticking a little closer to 
them would be appreciated.

So now we may be triple-conflated. different general LC 9 ENGINE 
performance optimization issues is a completely different topic that 
doesn't belong in this thread and has ONLY been introduced here courtesy 
of yourself, Mr. Richard Gaskin. Nothing to do with me.

 > While it is apparently of great interest to discuss more
 > general performance issues in any thread where the topic
 > may be plausibly inserted

That (not of this thread, again cross-threaded by yourself, Richard) was 
something I've promoted publicly since Jan 2017, and discussed with LC 
prior. And (I explain here ONLY because you force me, to avoid needless 
confusion to others, since you've now accused me of injecting it 
globally) in Sep 2018 I filed Bug 21561 "Slow LC 9 LCS Performance in 
Multiple Areas and Real Applications" to demo irrefutable effects in 
multiple areas of engine code BECAUSE at the time discussions of the 
optimization effort underway were focusing mainly on arrays. I mentioned 
it again in another thread BECAUSE in discussing 6/9 factoring OTHERS 
had already mentioned performance. These are all published, and we can 
quote and link if you wish, but not on this thread, please. Your recent 
comments about that bug report were off too, but I don't want to follow 
you on this cross-thread stuff.

I can't see any possible need to bring that topic here into this thread, 
and I'm not sure why you saw fit to do so, but again, that was you, 
RICHARD GASKIN, injecting it here, and not myself. Here in this thread I 
briefly mentioned (quote) "plus improved performance as a bonus" i.e. a 
possible (not guaranteed) extra INCENTIVE for fixing one of these AV 
problems, what you call the "Defender issue."

That "Defender issue" - in other words, my other Bug 21604 "Script 
Editor for LC 901 Unusable on Windows i3/i5" - and the other AV flagging 
issue (whether by Defender or any other AV) are both what OTHERS 
introduced to this thread when discussing AV, including yourself. Which 
is fine by me (both AV) but let's keep the chronology and facts 
straight: note that ANY and all conflation (or not) on this thread 
happened before my post today. Except this conflation of yours, of 
course! :)

 > there is a key factor with the subject at hand which you
 > may not have noticed in the comments in your bug report:
 > Those who have disabled Windows Defender's Real Time Protection
 > find the issue immediately resolved.

Again, you are straying from PUBLISHED details and chronology. In fact, 
in the very source you mentioned. On Nov 16, the Defender fix was noted. 
On Dec 12, I acknowledged that it was the case for me too, and thanked 
them for it. I don't think you can accuse me of not noticing something 
that I explicitly acknowledged, can you? And what I've emphasized today 
is a great quick fix for the symptoms? To overlook multiple statements 
of mine and suggest the opposite is going off the rails a little.

On Dec 12, I also warned about telling people to turn off Defender per 
se rather than just the affected part, which Panos then identified.

And on that date I mentioned my suspicion/prediction (since others 
reported similar symptoms on Mac, plus typing in a window shouldn't be a 
biggie) that there was more to this than Defender/AV, potentially the 
code design of SE and/or IDE.

 > Back on topic in this thread, I agree with your assessment here,
 > that if there is an opportunity to alter LC so that it no longer
 > triggers this well known Microsoft bug,

Yes, that's where we've agreed, to that extent - that there may be a way 
to fix it/avoid it on the LC side. On Dec 12 I suggested it along my 
lines, and later the same day you suggested it along slightly different 
lines based on MS reports. I don't know whose theory will prove to be 
correct, but both possible and involving a shared component: changing 
something in LC to avoid this issue permanently.

 > If the performance issues you're seeing on your Mac
 > Any Mac-specific issues merit their own bug report as well

That's only true if your assumption or theory is correct. It hasn't been 
resolved yet. Although my bug report is titled Windows (because I 
queried others before posting report and didn't notice or receive any 
Mac reports before posting) I did receive Mac reports AFTER posting. And 
this is all noted in the same report that you referenced.

 > just like the one we're discussing here which you had flagged
 > as a Windows issue (#21604), and which led to the discovery of
 > the contributory effect of Windows Defender.

Precisely, so Richard, would you agree that me posting on this thread 
once might be just a tad relevant, it being the bug I reported? Is that 
OK? I posted (A) to remind people of the Defender areas that can be left 
on, (B) to remind people that if Macs are involved it's not ONLY a 
Defender/AV issue and can be solved on the IDE side, and (C) to note the 
conflation that you also followed me in posting again with some 
differences. All important - I've let this thread go on without my 
involvement, but wanted to post once to make sure those were emphasized.

As a result of my posting the bug report, I was informed by Mac users 
who claimed similar symptoms and finally saw it myself with my own eyes. 
Noted in the bug report. Perhaps you were not informed and didn't notice 
those. A possible projection of the "you may not have noticed" that you 
attributed to me? I wouldn't have minded that you didn't see something 
(I sure don't see everything) but it's a bit strange to be accused of 
what may be the accuser's problem.

Since Mac is less commonly affected with similar symptoms (in fact LC 
Ltd suggested a workaround, that's documented in the report) it follows 
that POSSIBLY they are of the same cause. And IF they are, it becomes 
CERTAINLY not just a Windows Defender issue, obviously. But we'll have 
to wait for the final outcome to see.

 > but the suggestion that the Script Editor is NOT the cause
 > of Microsoft's issue with Defender does indeed seem reasonable.

(My emphasis added.) I was saying either SE or IDE probably INDEED is 
the cause, so I think we may disagree on that, unless one of us slipped 
in an extra NOT somewhere. And I certainly welcome disagreement; if your 
theory pans out I'll be just as happy as if mine does! Again, best 
wishes to you and I hope this will clarify any misunderstandings and 
avoid confusion to others.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan  7 19:47:01 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:47:01 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <0a3926df-5b4b-977e-2439-a62922a67750@krutt.org>
References: <0a3926df-5b4b-977e-2439-a62922a67750@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <6adbf852-bb6d-3132-f75e-d397eb8dc7a9@pair.com>


JJS:

 > Speed, what are we talking about? milliseconds?
 > Overall i find it working great with enough speed.
 > Microsoft will probably not be interested that LC
 > will run slow due to their product.

It looks like your reply MIGHT be referencing more general LC 9 ENGINE 
performance, an unrelated topic that Richard introduced to this thread. 
If so, important to correct before it becomes a snowball incorrect meme 
of a thousand posts. See my previous.

Depending on what turns out to be the final fix, snappier performance 
may be an extra benefit. I'm not going to explain why in detail; the 
savvy may understand, but that's a SECONDARY bonus that Richard 
amplified via conflation with another issue, and no time as I've had to 
correct some needless misrepresentations.

But such a performance perk would be of the nature that Richard 
described today himself as "Inexplicable slowdowns are the big mystery." 
And he has pointed out that Defender affects other apps with slowdowns.

So, depending on the fix, if something can be tweaked in SE/IDE to avoid 
Defender issues, that may have the side effect of better SE performance 
- depending on what actions (if any) in SE/IDE allow Defender/AV to get 
involved when the user is merely typing. Typically something we would 
not expect.

(Not talking about general engine ms speed, to type 500 wpm.) :)

PS: And of course to Richard's little trap perhaps, an example of the 
wifebeater question for those who follow fallacies and the like in 
dishonest/manipulative techniques of conversation, I'll amend my 
statement in previous post; I never made any suggestion that the Script
Editor was the cause of Microsoft's issues with Defender as it relates 
to any other apps. Nice one, Richard, but I caught it right after.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Jan  7 19:47:55 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:47:55 -0600
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <99b03ba4-d24c-4be4-47a1-627b222a299b@pair.com>
References: <4db1f2d1-dd43-b047-5112-95488747244d@fourthworld.com>
	<99b03ba4-d24c-4be4-47a1-627b222a299b@pair.com>
Message-ID: <1682aee1e78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm willing to bet that any slowdown in the SE not related to AV 
intervention is probably the new auto-complete features. I've turned most 
of them off and I see no speed decrease.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 7, 2019 6:15:13 PM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> And on that date I mentioned my suspicion/prediction (since others
> reported similar symptoms on Mac, plus typing in a window shouldn't be a
> biggie) that there was more to this than Defender/AV, potentially the
> code design of SE and/or IDE.





From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan  7 19:59:59 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:59:59 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <1682aee1e78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1682aee1e78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <d0a29546-c77a-58a6-2055-0daf7670d098@pair.com>


Jacqueline:

 > I'm willing to bet that any slowdown in the SE not related to
 > AV intervention is probably the new auto-complete features.
 > I've turned most of them off and I see no speed decrease.

Thanks Jacqueline, very true - that's yet another separate SE 
performance issue! Very good for people to know if they aren't on the 
most powerful machines.

(And who knows, depending on the timing of the symptoms appearing in the 
wild, might even relate to whatever allowed AV to get involved. The SE 
jerkiness/slowdowns related to Defender never gave me any big problems 
prior to LC 9. But that's a different issue and should be considered 
100% separate.)

In the case of Bug 21604, I had purposefully turned off most auto 
features in testing, as documented in the bug report.

Yes, me too - with Defender tweaked and auto off, I'm steaming along 
just fine on Windows. My only concern now is a permanent fix if 
possible, and why the same symptoms sometimes show up on Mac. ;)

Thanks to all involved for responding to my initial request last month 
and participating in pinning down the problem so far; it was pesky! :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jan  7 20:59:07 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 17:59:07 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <1682aee1e78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1682aee1e78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <31882692-5c80-447c-2386-8a13fdeca44e@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
 > I'm willing to bet that any slowdown in the SE not related to AV
 > intervention is probably the new auto-complete features. I've
 > turned most of them off and I see no speed decrease.

Same here.  But since the LC IDE is written in LCS, anything it does to 
trigger this widely-documented issue with Win Defender will sooner or 
later show itself in at least some of our apps.

They key question is: which language features are most affected?


A Test
-------
Given the nature of AV, it seemed file I/O would be a likely candidate, 
but to pin that down for sure I dug up a test script that touches a wide 
range of LCS features, running it with both Defender's Real-Time 
Protection (RTP) on, and then off.

The script was the last of a series of general performance assessment 
scripts started by Malte back in 2014, during the early v8 series.  Many 
of the elements identified through the various contributions in that 
forum thread helped point the way to dramatic increases in 
frequently-used operations like lineoffset, file I/O, and others.  There 
are many good test suites out there, including some from Mark Talluto, 
Curry, and others.  Many may have similar breadth; I chose this one 
because I'm familiar with the specifics of its scope:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=22072&p=135950#p135752

I modified the script only slightly so that it runs in the GUI LC rather 
than LiveCode Server, and with both RTP on and off.


Findings
--------
Here are the results:

RTP ON
System Version: Win32 NT 10.0
--
Test_BuildList: 187 ms
Test_LineOffset: 3741 ms
Test_LineAccessByNumber: 642 ms
Test_LineAccessForEach: 36 ms
Test_ArraySplit: 95 ms
Test_EncodeArray: 90 ms
Test_DecodeArray: 114 ms
Test_ArrayAccess: 60 ms
Test_Merge: 1409 ms
Test_BuildFilePath: 505 ms
Test_FileTextWrite: 6869 ms
Test_FileTextRead: 192 ms
Test_FileBinWrite: 9017 ms
Test_FileBinRead: 74 ms


RTP OFF
System Version: Win32 NT 10.0
--
Test_BuildList: 192 ms
Test_LineOffset: 4012 ms
Test_LineAccessByNumber: 719 ms
Test_LineAccessForEach: 39 ms
Test_ArraySplit: 99 ms
Test_EncodeArray: 113 ms
Test_DecodeArray: 143 ms
Test_ArrayAccess: 76 ms
Test_Merge: 1609 ms
Test_BuildFilePath: 579 ms
Test_FileTextWrite: 515 ms
Test_FileTextRead: 186 ms
Test_FileBinWrite: 376 ms
Test_FileBinRead: 74 ms


Most tests are close enough that any differences can be accounted for 
with expectable fluctuations in general system performance due to the 
effects of background tasks.

But writing files - damn! Now I understand what the reporters in the 
forums have been talking about.

The magnitude of the speed hit makes me wonder exactly what RTP is doing 
- detailed analysis of the file I/O buffer?

Whatever it is, it's worth thinking about in terms of how it will affect 
our own apps.


Implications for Our Own Apps
-----------------------------
The LC executable is signed, so while that may mitigate other AV issues, 
apparently that has no effect with the impact of file I/O ops on RTP.

The auto-complete feature you mentioned here seems very relevant for all 
of us, because IIRC they use SQLite for that, where the driver's need to 
jump around the b-tree structure can trigger a fair bit of disk I/O.

Even with those off, I would imagine that if you have the Dictionary tab 
open in the SE you'd see a similar impact, since Dict lookups are made 
as the selection changes.

If there's any good news here, it's that there doesn't appear to be 
anything the team can do in the engine to avoid triggering RTP's impact.

But the bad news may impact many of us:  With apparently all disk writes 
affected, any use of a persistent local store will take a hit.

This includes not only flat files, but databases like SQLite.

Reading appears to have minimal impact, but while that won't affect flat 
files, some DBs may modify bits of some DB files when performing even 
read operations, so we can't completely rule out impact on what we think 
of as read-only DB operations.


Dealing With RTP
----------------
As a paranoid security freak, I can't in good conscience recommend to 
end-users to turn of any feature of their security kit.

But on balance, it's worth noting that other AV packages do not seem to 
impact storage performance this horribly, if at all.  And many of the 
more popular alternatives are generally considered better than Windows 
Defender.

So while it seems a bit heavy-handed to tell customers which AV package 
to use, Microsoft's unusually aggressive approach to monitoring writes 
is impactful, and from the many stories with other apps we can find 
around the web, sometimes seriously.

Maybe this is one more reason to move everything to the cloud, to end 
the tyrrany of overzealously monitored local disk I/O. :)

I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep our customers 
happy with disk-intensive apps.

Sugggestions?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From brian at milby7.com  Mon Jan  7 21:48:07 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 20:48:07 -0600
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <31882692-5c80-447c-2386-8a13fdeca44e@fourthworld.com>
References: <1682aee1e78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<31882692-5c80-447c-2386-8a13fdeca44e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <dd43a328-8a0d-442e-ad11-6d614fd29d7f@Spark>

I think I know the issue then... look at how often the pref file is written. ?Throttle/turn that off and see what happens.

I was thinking that earlier today but those test results make me want to investigate that further.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 7, 2019, 8:40 PM -0600, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> J. Landman Gay wrote:
> > I'm willing to bet that any slowdown in the SE not related to AV
> > intervention is probably the new auto-complete features. I've
> > turned most of them off and I see no speed decrease.
>
> Same here. But since the LC IDE is written in LCS, anything it does to
> trigger this widely-documented issue with Win Defender will sooner or
> later show itself in at least some of our apps.
>
> They key question is: which language features are most affected?
>
>
> A Test
> -------
> Given the nature of AV, it seemed file I/O would be a likely candidate,
> but to pin that down for sure I dug up a test script that touches a wide
> range of LCS features, running it with both Defender's Real-Time
> Protection (RTP) on, and then off.
>
> The script was the last of a series of general performance assessment
> scripts started by Malte back in 2014, during the early v8 series. Many
> of the elements identified through the various contributions in that
> forum thread helped point the way to dramatic increases in
> frequently-used operations like lineoffset, file I/O, and others. There
> are many good test suites out there, including some from Mark Talluto,
> Curry, and others. Many may have similar breadth; I chose this one
> because I'm familiar with the specifics of its scope:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=22072&p=135950#p135752
>
> I modified the script only slightly so that it runs in the GUI LC rather
> than LiveCode Server, and with both RTP on and off.
>
>
> Findings
> --------
> Here are the results:
>
> RTP ON
> System Version: Win32 NT 10.0
> --
> Test_BuildList: 187 ms
> Test_LineOffset: 3741 ms
> Test_LineAccessByNumber: 642 ms
> Test_LineAccessForEach: 36 ms
> Test_ArraySplit: 95 ms
> Test_EncodeArray: 90 ms
> Test_DecodeArray: 114 ms
> Test_ArrayAccess: 60 ms
> Test_Merge: 1409 ms
> Test_BuildFilePath: 505 ms
> Test_FileTextWrite: 6869 ms
> Test_FileTextRead: 192 ms
> Test_FileBinWrite: 9017 ms
> Test_FileBinRead: 74 ms
>
>
> RTP OFF
> System Version: Win32 NT 10.0
> --
> Test_BuildList: 192 ms
> Test_LineOffset: 4012 ms
> Test_LineAccessByNumber: 719 ms
> Test_LineAccessForEach: 39 ms
> Test_ArraySplit: 99 ms
> Test_EncodeArray: 113 ms
> Test_DecodeArray: 143 ms
> Test_ArrayAccess: 76 ms
> Test_Merge: 1609 ms
> Test_BuildFilePath: 579 ms
> Test_FileTextWrite: 515 ms
> Test_FileTextRead: 186 ms
> Test_FileBinWrite: 376 ms
> Test_FileBinRead: 74 ms
>
>
> Most tests are close enough that any differences can be accounted for
> with expectable fluctuations in general system performance due to the
> effects of background tasks.
>
> But writing files - damn! Now I understand what the reporters in the
> forums have been talking about.
>
> The magnitude of the speed hit makes me wonder exactly what RTP is doing
> - detailed analysis of the file I/O buffer?
>
> Whatever it is, it's worth thinking about in terms of how it will affect
> our own apps.
>
>
> Implications for Our Own Apps
> -----------------------------
> The LC executable is signed, so while that may mitigate other AV issues,
> apparently that has no effect with the impact of file I/O ops on RTP.
>
> The auto-complete feature you mentioned here seems very relevant for all
> of us, because IIRC they use SQLite for that, where the driver's need to
> jump around the b-tree structure can trigger a fair bit of disk I/O.
>
> Even with those off, I would imagine that if you have the Dictionary tab
> open in the SE you'd see a similar impact, since Dict lookups are made
> as the selection changes.
>
> If there's any good news here, it's that there doesn't appear to be
> anything the team can do in the engine to avoid triggering RTP's impact.
>
> But the bad news may impact many of us: With apparently all disk writes
> affected, any use of a persistent local store will take a hit.
>
> This includes not only flat files, but databases like SQLite.
>
> Reading appears to have minimal impact, but while that won't affect flat
> files, some DBs may modify bits of some DB files when performing even
> read operations, so we can't completely rule out impact on what we think
> of as read-only DB operations.
>
>
> Dealing With RTP
> ----------------
> As a paranoid security freak, I can't in good conscience recommend to
> end-users to turn of any feature of their security kit.
>
> But on balance, it's worth noting that other AV packages do not seem to
> impact storage performance this horribly, if at all. And many of the
> more popular alternatives are generally considered better than Windows
> Defender.
>
> So while it seems a bit heavy-handed to tell customers which AV package
> to use, Microsoft's unusually aggressive approach to monitoring writes
> is impactful, and from the many stories with other apps we can find
> around the web, sometimes seriously.
>
> Maybe this is one more reason to move everything to the cloud, to end
> the tyrrany of overzealously monitored local disk I/O. :)
>
> I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep our customers
> happy with disk-intensive apps.
>
> Sugggestions?
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan  7 22:29:58 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 22:29:58 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <31882692-5c80-447c-2386-8a13fdeca44e@fourthworld.com>
References: <31882692-5c80-447c-2386-8a13fdeca44e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d90af18e-e09c-aeef-b539-8febe7f7ceff@pair.com>


Richard:

 > But writing files - damn! Now I understand what the reporters
 > in the forums have been talking about.

LOL, great test to verify the impact, but it incredibly closely follows 
my documented prediction on Dec 12:

 > A relevant question on our side of the equation is whether LC
 > is constantly accessing file(s) while we type or make selections
 > in script editor and if so, the wisdom of and necessity for such
 > an approach. I wouldn't recommend it because it's unnecessary
 > and prone to trouble. (If it turns out LC is not doing that,
 > sorry - my assumption, based on antivirus getting into the picture.)

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604

And supporting all my remarks today regarding my theory that the cause 
of the issue was actions taken by SE/IDE to open up merely typing to AV, 
something we would not expect ideally, AND also the performance perk 
that might be a side effect for all cases, if that theory was correct.

Richard:

 > I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep
 > our customers happy with disk-intensive apps.
 > Sugggestions?

Hmmm...since this all based on my seemingly correct predictions (?) 
without crediting them and while simultaneously having made inaccurate 
accusations against me (weird) how about what I suggested today:

 > Per common sense and best coding practices, the actions taken
 > by the IDE while we are merely typing and selecting text
 > ideally should not open the doors to get AntiVirus products
 > involved continually.

Just as I suggested before in the bug report. There is no need for ANY 
typing window to CONSTANTLY access an outside file. The most 
time-crucial parts should either be moved to memory or be done with care 
and timed appopriately. If that turns out to be the issue, I was right 
all along despite the your late hysterics.

Naturally what goes for the IDE can also be used just as well for any 
app, to continue quoting myself today.

 > Actions that may get vetted by AV, or that may use
 > greater system resources, need to be considered carefully
 > in terms of approach, timing, and responsiveness.

Pretty obvious - I've known for 20 years not to constantly access files 
while typing, and to space out disk reads and writes appropriately. And 
I've seen and helped repair similar issues for users. Always minimize 
file usage, time it appropriately, not per second or N times per second 
when someone is typing, or during animation for that matter, since we're 
talking about apps made with LC. Pretty basic coding technique indeed.

How about those "Good Coding Habits 101" suggestions from myself? :D

Like my motto: Good methods, good habits, good results! Now potentially 
applicable to the IDE itself, something I've taken a lot of heat for 
suggesting.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan  7 22:35:05 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 22:35:05 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <dd43a328-8a0d-442e-ad11-6d614fd29d7f@Spark>
References: <dd43a328-8a0d-442e-ad11-6d614fd29d7f@Spark>
Message-ID: <248d5327-153e-674c-81fb-3e23af05086c@pair.com>


Brian:

 > I think I know the issue then... look at how often the pref file
 > is written.  Throttle/turn that off and see what happens.

 > I was thinking that earlier today but those test results make me
 > want to investigate that further.

Thanks Brian, fixing things up as usual!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jan  7 22:55:38 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:55:38 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <d90af18e-e09c-aeef-b539-8febe7f7ceff@pair.com>
References: <d90af18e-e09c-aeef-b539-8febe7f7ceff@pair.com>
Message-ID: <bb63abe1-b726-049b-2e58-3fcd71d2390c@fourthworld.com>

Curry, I haven't questioned your findings in the report.  On the 
contrary, I confirmed them.

We don't disagree on observable data.

We merely differ on focus:

Few of my customers use the LC Script Editor, so they don't care about 
it. But they do use the software that we ship to them.

And since we can find many stories about this in apps other than LC, 
like those I found with the DuckDuckGo search I did the other day, the 
element from the many forum posts on this that caught my attention was 
that every one of them who replied back said that turning off RTP was a 
satisfying result.

That got me focused on the AV aspect of this, when Tom started this 
thread looking at AV issues.

As for the SE, I share the interest but not the concern.  Milby's 
looking at the prefs angle, Mark Waddingham is already working on 
arrays, so both on-disk and in-memory optimizations are under way; that 
much is in the can.  #21604 is indeed a good report, helpful on both 
sides. It'll be closed soon, so now I'm free to consider the part of his 
discovery that impacts what we ourselves ship:

How many devs among us are shipping apps which rely on frequent disk saves?

Are you seeing a difference with the impact of RTP on vs off?

This will definitely prompt me to spend more time testing on Windows...

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


> Richard:
> 
>  > But writing files - damn! Now I understand what the reporters
>  > in the forums have been talking about.
> 
> LOL, great test to verify the impact, but it incredibly closely follows 
> my documented prediction on Dec 12:
> 
>  > A relevant question on our side of the equation is whether LC
>  > is constantly accessing file(s) while we type or make selections
>  > in script editor and if so, the wisdom of and necessity for such
>  > an approach. I wouldn't recommend it because it's unnecessary
>  > and prone to trouble. (If it turns out LC is not doing that,
>  > sorry - my assumption, based on antivirus getting into the picture.)
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604
> 
> And supporting all my remarks today regarding my theory that the cause 
> of the issue was actions taken by SE/IDE to open up merely typing to AV, 
> something we would not expect ideally, AND also the performance perk 
> that might be a side effect for all cases, if that theory was correct.
> 
> Richard:
> 
>  > I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep
>  > our customers happy with disk-intensive apps.
>  > Sugggestions?
> 
> Hmmm...since this all based on my seemingly correct predictions (?) 
> without crediting them and while simultaneously having made inaccurate 
> accusations against me (weird) how about what I suggested today:
> 
>  > Per common sense and best coding practices, the actions taken
>  > by the IDE while we are merely typing and selecting text
>  > ideally should not open the doors to get AntiVirus products
>  > involved continually.
> 
> Just as I suggested before in the bug report. There is no need for ANY 
> typing window to CONSTANTLY access an outside file. The most 
> time-crucial parts should either be moved to memory or be done with care 
> and timed appopriately. If that turns out to be the issue, I was right 
> all along despite the your late hysterics.
> 
> Naturally what goes for the IDE can also be used just as well for any 
> app, to continue quoting myself today.
> 
>  > Actions that may get vetted by AV, or that may use
>  > greater system resources, need to be considered carefully
>  > in terms of approach, timing, and responsiveness.
> 
> Pretty obvious - I've known for 20 years not to constantly access files 
> while typing, and to space out disk reads and writes appropriately. And 
> I've seen and helped repair similar issues for users. Always minimize 
> file usage, time it appropriately, not per second or N times per second 
> when someone is typing, or during animation for that matter, since we're 
> talking about apps made with LC. Pretty basic coding technique indeed.
> 
> How about those "Good Coding Habits 101" suggestions from myself? :D
> 
> Like my motto: Good methods, good habits, good results! Now potentially 
> applicable to the IDE itself, something I've taken a lot of heat for 
> suggesting.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan  7 23:23:00 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 23:23:00 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <bb63abe1-b726-049b-2e58-3fcd71d2390c@fourthworld.com>
References: <bb63abe1-b726-049b-2e58-3fcd71d2390c@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <652356ae-b8bb-011c-65ff-126aa882d3de@pair.com>


Richard:

> Curry, I haven't questioned your findings in the report.
> On the contrary, I confirmed them.

> Few of my customers use the LC Script Editor, so they
> don't care about it. But they do use the software that
> we ship to them.

Thanks Richard. Yes - I also do frequent training, so any IDE issues 
tend to show up during tutoring and co-dev, besides annoying me a bit 
during my own work.

> How many devs among us are shipping apps which rely on
> frequent disk saves?

Not the devs that heed my usual advice and KISS philosophy. :)

But any system-intensive action performed too often or at the wrong time 
during typing, animation, or other activities where lag is obvious can 
be an issue on any platform - Mac, Windows, mobile, even web, even using 
any language - not just LC.

Bad coding habits or insufficient caution is just bad, fullstop, 
regardless of the context. Good habits and caution are critical, no 
matter whether someone is a post-HC hobbyist or a degreed comp sci 
engineer. That's why I'm always harping like a broken record about good 
habits. :D

Thanks for your test, very nice. My regards.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan  8 00:38:00 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 21:38:00 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <652356ae-b8bb-011c-65ff-126aa882d3de@pair.com>
References: <652356ae-b8bb-011c-65ff-126aa882d3de@pair.com>
Message-ID: <1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

 > Richard:
...
 >> How many devs among us are shipping apps which rely on
 >> frequent disk saves?
 >
 > Not the devs that heed my usual advice and KISS philosophy. :)
 >
 > But any system-intensive action performed too often or at the wrong
 > time during typing, animation, or other activities where lag is
 > obvious can be an issue on any platform - Mac, Windows, mobile, even
 > web, even using any language - not just LC.
 >
 > Bad coding habits or insufficient caution is just bad, fullstop,
 > regardless of the context. Good habits and caution are critical, no
 > matter whether someone is a post-HC hobbyist or a degreed comp sci
 > engineer. That's why I'm always harping like a broken record about
 > good habits. :D

Everyone on the LC dev team is either a CS or advanced mathematics 
graduate.  I'm not losing sleep over the prospect that they haven't at 
least thumbed though Knuth.

The Script Editor is in competent hands, and with community involvement 
it only get better.

I'm more interested in those of us who do not hold a doctorate in CS, or 
even when we do what should be considered the "right" thing and still 
find performance impaired.

I haven't finished reading the specs at sqlite.org, but I skimmed enough 
this evening to get the impression that there's a fair bit of 
housekeeping needed to satisfy what we consider read-only operations 
like queries. Some of that housekeeping needs persistence, particularly 
with materializations for pre-evaluation of subqueries, among others.

So using the world's most popular No-One-Ever-Got-Fired-For-Choosing-It 
local storage solution may still not make one immune to the effects of 
this unusual performance hit from Windows Defender.

I haven't benchmarked that specifically, though it would be a good test 
if someone here has time.

But even with flat files, we write data when we need persistence. I 
doubt many stay up late adding routines that write to disk 
unnecessarily. Sometimes it's to flush cache.  Sometimes it's state data 
useful for session restoration.  Sometimes it's the user's document.

And with modern conventions trending toward auto-saving vs the older 
explicit user-driven saves, some of the most well-written apps write to 
disk more frequently than ever before.

I'm less interested in casting judgment on code I haven't read written 
by other people than just making the code I'm responsible for writing 
perform well.

To summarize what we've learned so far:

- Apps write to disk for many legitimate reasons

- Defender's RTP impairs performance of writes

- Even "read" operations on the world's most common local
   storage format, SQLite, and others, may be affected.

The latter merits testing. And given what we know of the SE, seriously so.

It may be that Prefs plays a key role in timed tasks, but I can't 
imagine if it does that it was the result of an LC team member out of 
things to do.  We write when we need persistence, so I suspect they 
would do no less.

But here's an interesting thing - boot your Linux box and run this:

  strace ./livecodeindy.x86_64 &> strace-log.txt

It's super-annoying to try to scroll though, and no, I haven't read 
every line (I'll leave that for more diligent souls like Mark Wieder, 
who will probably run that when he reads this <g>).

At a quick skim I see evidence of a lot of timers (which we would expect 
given the SE's features), but an interesting thing about file access is 
a lot of lstat and open calls apparently looking for, and not finding, 
the App Overview stack file:

lstat("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 
0x7ffc8d185800) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 
O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)

That much seems a bug, and I'll add notes to about that to the bug 
report. Since it isn't finding the file it can't write to it, and 
without writes I doubt it's the thing people are seeing when they turn 
RTP on and off.  But worth looking into for the sake of tidiness.


Oddly, in my quick skim of the log file I haven't yet seen calls to the 
various SQLite files the IDE uses or the Prefs file, and alas I'm out of 
time on this for tonight...


 > Thanks for your test, very nice. My regards.

Happy to one of the many people in this process.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Jan  8 01:24:52 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 00:24:52 -0600
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
References: <652356ae-b8bb-011c-65ff-126aa882d3de@pair.com>
	<1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+yhkRbLPt_PocwaaoUe4sySWhRSb1SEJ4zyKdULe2=79sVF1g@mail.gmail.com>

I've looked into the pref save code and it isn't as bad as I thought.  The
file is saved regularly, but not at the interval that I thought.  It does
have a half second delay which should prevent too many file writes (the
actual save is debounced 500ms in the future, so if another save request
comes in then the write is delayed).  I was thinking that it was saving
much more often.

Interesting on revApplicationOverview.rev since that path isn't where the
stack lives (it is missing "Plugins").  I see 44 references to the stack
name in various places (most in revbackscriptlibrary - 33), but most come
in groups of 3 (if there is a stack... if the mode is not 0... the do
something).


On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:37 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Curry Kenworthy wrote:
>
>  > Richard:
> ...
>  >> How many devs among us are shipping apps which rely on
>  >> frequent disk saves?
>  >
>  > Not the devs that heed my usual advice and KISS philosophy. :)
>  >
>  > But any system-intensive action performed too often or at the wrong
>  > time during typing, animation, or other activities where lag is
>  > obvious can be an issue on any platform - Mac, Windows, mobile, even
>  > web, even using any language - not just LC.
>  >
>  > Bad coding habits or insufficient caution is just bad, fullstop,
>  > regardless of the context. Good habits and caution are critical, no
>  > matter whether someone is a post-HC hobbyist or a degreed comp sci
>  > engineer. That's why I'm always harping like a broken record about
>  > good habits. :D
>
> Everyone on the LC dev team is either a CS or advanced mathematics
> graduate.  I'm not losing sleep over the prospect that they haven't at
> least thumbed though Knuth.
>
> The Script Editor is in competent hands, and with community involvement
> it only get better.
>
> I'm more interested in those of us who do not hold a doctorate in CS, or
> even when we do what should be considered the "right" thing and still
> find performance impaired.
>
> I haven't finished reading the specs at sqlite.org, but I skimmed enough
> this evening to get the impression that there's a fair bit of
> housekeeping needed to satisfy what we consider read-only operations
> like queries. Some of that housekeeping needs persistence, particularly
> with materializations for pre-evaluation of subqueries, among others.
>
> So using the world's most popular No-One-Ever-Got-Fired-For-Choosing-It
> local storage solution may still not make one immune to the effects of
> this unusual performance hit from Windows Defender.
>
> I haven't benchmarked that specifically, though it would be a good test
> if someone here has time.
>
> But even with flat files, we write data when we need persistence. I
> doubt many stay up late adding routines that write to disk
> unnecessarily. Sometimes it's to flush cache.  Sometimes it's state data
> useful for session restoration.  Sometimes it's the user's document.
>
> And with modern conventions trending toward auto-saving vs the older
> explicit user-driven saves, some of the most well-written apps write to
> disk more frequently than ever before.
>
> I'm less interested in casting judgment on code I haven't read written
> by other people than just making the code I'm responsible for writing
> perform well.
>
> To summarize what we've learned so far:
>
> - Apps write to disk for many legitimate reasons
>
> - Defender's RTP impairs performance of writes
>
> - Even "read" operations on the world's most common local
>    storage format, SQLite, and others, may be affected.
>
> The latter merits testing. And given what we know of the SE, seriously so.
>
> It may be that Prefs plays a key role in timed tasks, but I can't
> imagine if it does that it was the result of an LC team member out of
> things to do.  We write when we need persistence, so I suspect they
> would do no less.
>
> But here's an interesting thing - boot your Linux box and run this:
>
>   strace ./livecodeindy.x86_64 &> strace-log.txt
>
> It's super-annoying to try to scroll though, and no, I haven't read
> every line (I'll leave that for more diligent souls like Mark Wieder,
> who will probably run that when he reads this <g>).
>
> At a quick skim I see evidence of a lot of timers (which we would expect
> given the SE's features), but an interesting thing about file access is
> a lot of lstat and open calls apparently looking for, and not finding,
> the App Overview stack file:
>
> lstat("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev",
>
> 0x7ffc8d185800) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
> open("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev",
>
> O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
>
> That much seems a bug, and I'll add notes to about that to the bug
> report. Since it isn't finding the file it can't write to it, and
> without writes I doubt it's the thing people are seeing when they turn
> RTP on and off.  But worth looking into for the sake of tidiness.
>
>
> Oddly, in my quick skim of the log file I haven't yet seen calls to the
> various SQLite files the IDE uses or the Prefs file, and alas I'm out of
> time on this for tonight...
>
>
>  > Thanks for your test, very nice. My regards.
>
> Happy to one of the many people in this process.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From curry at pair.com  Tue Jan  8 01:50:53 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 01:50:53 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
References: <1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <60d0b5e1-3fa2-53f4-8cf7-962cd327731e@pair.com>


Richard:

 > Everyone on the LC dev team is either a CS or advanced
 > mathematics graduate.
 > I'm more interested in those of us who do not hold a doctorate in CS

That's why I mentioned both - the same rules apply to everyone. Not just 
in the LC world either. Math, physics, gravity, good or bad coding 
habits, rain - apply to all.

And I have the same respect for all, PHD or GED, but neither gets a free 
buddy pass from the laws of our universe (or from myself, since I also 
notice those laws) on what works best.

 > when we do what should be considered the "right" thing
 > and still find performance impaired.

It usually WON'T be impaired in that case - consistently applying solid 
philosophy, plus not assuming that all other code has been done well, 
tends to avoid the problems; that's the point. Key: solid philosophy, 
disciplined habits.

 > I'm less interested in casting judgment on code I haven't read
 > written by other people than just making the code I'm responsible
 > for writing perform well.

It's not casting an emotional moral judgment (although come to think of 
it, scribbling horns on pics of offenders would be pretty fun). :D

But what I actually do is train and encourage people to strive for good 
coding habits.

To me it's simply - what else would anyone expect?

You get the cake you bake. The recipe you follow. If you put in 50 eggs 
or drop a cigarette into the batter, you get that too. Your actions 
dictate the result.

That may seem extreme examples, but so is constant disk access or other 
things that use resources too frequently or at a bad tim3. It's not 
cool. Nor something that we should just wait until it pops up, like 
whack-a-mole. That why our brains have pattern matching and 
philosophical features built in. Develop good habits. Anticipate 
possible issues. It's one of the many things people should have in mind 
to watch out for from the START, at least in their own code that they 
write themselves.

DB, flat file, web; doesn't matter. Nor only with this particular issue 
of disk access. Either way, people shouldn't just code things however 
the mood (or the sprint) takes them. Code carefully, organize well, try 
to anticipate what could go wrong as you type, think ahead, and learn 
from every mistake you make, take it to heart. The more problems that 
can be avoided mentally BEFORE they are written, the fewer to spend 
limited resources fixing. We can't eliminate bugs, but we can reduce a 
certain % with very little overhead on coding mental load, so it's a 
huge win.

If people don't code carefully with good habits, you'll get exactly the 
result that you created, sometimes you lucky anyway, and sometimes not. 
I like to help people start developing those good habits and turn around 
any bad ones.

I can often "smell" or calculate a very rough likely/not assessment that 
problems exist in other code by symptoms and logic; it's not by chance 
that I'm very often correct when i show up and start harping on 
something that triggers people. Ha ha. :)

 > And with modern conventions trending toward auto-saving vs the
 > older explicit user-driven saves, some of the most well-written
 > apps write to disk more frequently than ever before.

There are also a lot of badly-written apps, even from big companies. 
Lousy code and sloppy work is fairly epidemic, tons of bad examples to 
potentially mislead the unwary CS student or PT hobbyist. I'm especially 
SMH when major websites or apps mess up their CORE features (up to and 
including financial ones) while undergoing mobile redesigns. Losing 
sight of the most important things. This is not an era of exemplary code 
in the world.

Auto saves not being triggered by the user puts us more in control, 
right? That's a good thing too. We have all the opportunity, and also 
responsibility to do it well. Not 10 times per second of course, to 
exaggerate again (although you never know) but when something needs to 
happen, there are plenty of things we can do to make it smooth and time 
it smart so the user doesn't get slapped in the face. If the user must 
be interrupted, give it a visual indicator. Actually quite simple to 
make apps very responsive, at least until the OS gets in the way and 
decides now it's time for something completely different.

Believe me, this is not very difficult to get right as far as its in 
your hands, and the rest, from OS and other apps, will usually not take 
things down too much further. People at all levels can understand being 
careful not to interrupt what the user is doing, and not calling 
expensive features too often.

 > a lot of lstat and open calls apparently looking for, and not
 > finding, the App Overview stack file

Very interesting. Glad you found that. More examples of things 
that...never mind! :D Hope you keep poking around.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From curry at pair.com  Tue Jan  8 02:07:30 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 02:07:30 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <CA+yhkRbLPt_PocwaaoUe4sySWhRSb1SEJ4zyKdULe2=79sVF1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+yhkRbLPt_PocwaaoUe4sySWhRSb1SEJ4zyKdULe2=79sVF1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca73392a-e0f6-c3ee-559f-83cc9b25ecc9@pair.com>


Brian:

 > I've looked into the pref save code and it isn't as bad as I thought.

That's good...maybe something a bit closer to the auto formatting and 
replace features, and whatever organizes them?

Who knows, it could be something outside the SE that just happens to 
interfere, I don't like to speculate on exact causes or locations - but 
the SE itself is a bit suspect because if I remember, the issues got 
serious around the same time the SE and related parts of LC got some 
major new features. Definitely got bad in 9 (with Defender) whereas 
perfectly usable on 8 with Defender.

Seeing the files accessed within a short time period while typing would 
be useful...but if unlucky, it might involve conflicts or special 
conditions and require having symptoms showing. Hopefully not. If very 
lucky this could be debugged on any platform, not just Windows.

Assuming the "AV door" is indeed file access.

Hope it's not super hard to track down after all. :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan  8 01:47:01 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 22:47:01 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <CA+yhkRbLPt_PocwaaoUe4sySWhRSb1SEJ4zyKdULe2=79sVF1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+yhkRbLPt_PocwaaoUe4sySWhRSb1SEJ4zyKdULe2=79sVF1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b8a3941-4bba-6ca1-0960-36e903d43e02@fourthworld.com>

Brian Milby wrote:
 > I've looked into the pref save code and it isn't as bad as I thought.
 > The file is saved regularly, but not at the interval that I thought.
 > It does have a half second delay which should prevent too many file
 > writes (the actual save is debounced 500ms in the future, so if
 > another save request comes in then the write is delayed).  I was
 > thinking that it was saving much more often.

Were you able to determine why it's saved at regular intervals as 
opposed to when it changes?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan  8 02:47:35 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 23:47:35 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <60d0b5e1-3fa2-53f4-8cf7-962cd327731e@pair.com>
References: <60d0b5e1-3fa2-53f4-8cf7-962cd327731e@pair.com>
Message-ID: <b466e75a-c05e-9308-7955-71ef9f958a51@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

 > And I have the same respect for all, PHD or GED, but neither gets a
 > free buddy pass from the laws of our universe (or from myself, since
 > I also notice those laws) on what works best.

Uh, all right then.

Personally, I feel no driving need to try to take Mark Waddingham to 
school. Knock yourself out. I'm just trying to help diagnose a bug.


 >  > when we do what should be considered the "right" thing
 >  > and still find performance impaired.
 >
 > It usually WON'T be impaired in that case...

"Usually" being the operative word there.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From curry at pair.com  Tue Jan  8 03:06:54 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 03:06:54 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <b466e75a-c05e-9308-7955-71ef9f958a51@fourthworld.com>
References: <b466e75a-c05e-9308-7955-71ef9f958a51@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <99516c93-2aa4-8c5b-2ac8-b10b3e090712@pair.com>


Richard:

 > Personally, I feel no driving need to try to take Mark
 > Waddingham to school.

I have the utmost respect for Mark and his tremendous knowledge. And for 
everyone else high or low for that matter. I don't play favorites or 
tiptoe, I treat people the same. As the old saying goes, it rains on 
everyone. The laws and natural results of habits and actions good or bad 
apply to all.

Including me first and foremost; as I've indicated, matters of 
self-discipline involve the self, you can't actually force habits on 
others. But I do share and teach, to help others get better results. It 
works but it requires some discipline. Everyone can improve - you were 
asking, and I was answering, mostly about regular users. My clients 
teach me important lessons too. Learning is never a one-way street.

I seriously doubt this issue is Mark's fault (In fact, I don't think I 
mentioned any names) and in fact I'm still not 100% certain we've nailed 
it until it's verified, although it seems logical that we're close. 
Still some assumptions though, and therefore still possible to be wrong.

A little Mark would probably go a long way here! :D Then again this bug 
being in the IDE, I can understand if he is answering a higher calling.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From curry at pair.com  Tue Jan  8 03:14:19 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 03:14:19 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <CA+yhkRbLPt_PocwaaoUe4sySWhRSb1SEJ4zyKdULe2=79sVF1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+yhkRbLPt_PocwaaoUe4sySWhRSb1SEJ4zyKdULe2=79sVF1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <884a62e4-3d2e-43b0-8ba6-215ccdf439b2@pair.com>


Brian:

 > The file is saved regularly, but not at the interval that I thought.

One more hint - during symptoms, after making a new text selection with 
the mouse (as opposed to just typing on a line) there was an especially 
big delay before the field would be responsive again. To be successful 
with copy/paste I had to select, keep waiting for a second or two before 
copying, then select, wait until blinking insertion returned, then 
paste. Selecting and copying right away would fail.

Since that bug report, I've noticed that sometimes the line numbers in 
the SE will get out of sync with scrolling text and stick at a certain 
point (on Mac too, not requiring any symptoms of this bug and perhaps 
unrelated). In that condition, making a selection is what triggers the 
line numbers to refresh - maybe a significant trigger for some actions.

But during symptoms, it wasn't only slow selections - sometimes 
keystrokes were easy to mess up, but memory is growing dim. Now that we 
know the Defender fix, if the final fix still proves illusive I may need 
to unfix my computer when I get some time, maybe video it, to test 
symptoms again and make a more precise record of the editing delays and 
what triggers them.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From smk at anvic.net  Tue Jan  8 05:41:39 2019
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 10:41:39 +0000
Subject: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x
In-Reply-To: <36b65f8e-b8ea-f74b-95cd-f66683168315@fourthworld.com>
References: <62D83FCE-911D-4B89-B237-FC40C545C780@anvic.net>
	<36b65f8e-b8ea-f74b-95cd-f66683168315@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <727B68A5-4DC1-41CD-8556-CF107E50769A@anvic.net>



> On 7 Jan 2019, at 17:00, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the biggest flaw I've seen with v9 is the bug report tracking: the Release Notes only include a subset of all issues addressed since work began on it two years ago.  My understanding from conversations with team members is that v9 may well have the largest number of resolved bugs of any release, an amazing feat considering the scope of new features and feature refinements, including huge strides forward with many aspects of performance.

I suspect that this is a fact of life especially in small teams.  My limited experience is that people who write code generally hate writing paperwork as they want to get on and complete the next task and not create documentation about the last.  Not forgetting that a lot of the paperwork generated by the big players is just shelf ware and no use to anyone except the manager who demanded it.

best wishes

Simon

From david.bovill at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 08:53:04 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:53:04 +0000
Subject: HTML entity escaping?
In-Reply-To: <8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <CAGASioOq93Yw=0cJ8+eivu+1x80kOx0yUkRSw=XTQZwqJmk+-w@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way / anyone have a handler to escape named html entities in
Livecode?


> &Aacute;,&aacute;,&Acirc;,&acirc;,&acute;,&AElig;,&aelig;,&Agrave...
>


From benr at cogapp.com  Tue Jan  8 09:25:01 2019
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 14:25:01 -0000
Subject: Upgrading OpenSSL in 6.7.11
In-Reply-To: <CAKz8yzatVrQ-NgQH4etUrDdx3WY_J77YWMXtQ774kinf6wcczw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz8yzatVrQ-NgQH4etUrDdx3WY_J77YWMXtQ774kinf6wcczw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9bb8abd6-3b57-c1f9-02d6-8ab54d1a61e2@cogapp.com>

Hi David,

I've just run up against exactly this issue. It's the last six months of a 
legacy app that's going to be retired, so I'm reluctant to go through the 
whole process of validating it under LC 8.

Did you ever get a solution to this?

Many thanks,

Ben

On 14/09/2017 00:34, David Beck via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> For one of our applications we are still running LiveCode v6.7.11, and have
> come across an issue hitting an API that only supports TLS 1.2 and later.
> It appears that the version of OpenSSL / revsecurity that is being
> distributed with v6.7.11 does not support TLS version 1.2. Upgrading to
> LiveCode v8.1.6 solves the issue, however, there are some upgrade related
> "bumps" that we will need some time to work through, so it will take some
> time to resolve this issue through moving to LC8.
> 
> Does anybody know how we might obtain / build a version of revsecurity that
> works with 6.7.11 with the most recent version of OpenSSL?
> 
> Thank you in advance for any help!
> 
> David Beck
> Rotunda Software
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Jan  8 09:54:41 2019
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 14:54:41 -0000
Subject: Upgrading OpenSSL in 6.7.11
In-Reply-To: <CAKz8yzatVrQ-NgQH4etUrDdx3WY_J77YWMXtQ774kinf6wcczw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKz8yzatVrQ-NgQH4etUrDdx3WY_J77YWMXtQ774kinf6wcczw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0d545cb-6f93-7299-a465-f068a97c8b0a@cogapp.com>

Hi David,

I've just run up against exactly this issue. It's the last six months of a 
legacy app that's going to be retired, so I'm reluctant to go through the 
whole process of validating it under LC 8.

Did you ever get a solution to this?

Many thanks,

Ben

On 14/09/2017 00:34, David Beck via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> For one of our applications we are still running LiveCode v6.7.11, and have
> come across an issue hitting an API that only supports TLS 1.2 and later.
> It appears that the version of OpenSSL / revsecurity that is being
> distributed with v6.7.11 does not support TLS version 1.2. Upgrading to
> LiveCode v8.1.6 solves the issue, however, there are some upgrade related
> "bumps" that we will need some time to work through, so it will take some
> time to resolve this issue through moving to LC8.
> 
> Does anybody know how we might obtain / build a version of revsecurity that
> works with 6.7.11 with the most recent version of OpenSSL?
> 
> Thank you in advance for any help!
> 
> David Beck
> Rotunda Software
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Jan  8 10:25:33 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 09:25:33 -0600
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <9b8a3941-4bba-6ca1-0960-36e903d43e02@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+yhkRbLPt_PocwaaoUe4sySWhRSb1SEJ4zyKdULe2=79sVF1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<9b8a3941-4bba-6ca1-0960-36e903d43e02@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a0553e59-c9b7-4cdb-8b2c-463089cb4930@Spark>

It is mostly on change but also when SE windows get suspended. ?Also when a SE window is closed if it has been >20s it does get saved as a precaution. ?I?d need to dig in some more to see how frequently it is being saved while using the SE and trace code if warranted.

I found this much just by reviewing the code. ?Next is watching the file while using the SE to see how often it gets updated.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 8, 2019, 1:25 AM -0600, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Brian Milby wrote:
> > I've looked into the pref save code and it isn't as bad as I thought.
> > The file is saved regularly, but not at the interval that I thought.
> > It does have a half second delay which should prevent too many file
> > writes (the actual save is debounced 500ms in the future, so if
> > another save request comes in then the write is delayed). I was
> > thinking that it was saving much more often.
>
> Were you able to determine why it's saved at regular intervals as
> opposed to when it changes?
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Jan  8 10:40:19 2019
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 15:40:19 -0000
Subject: Upgrading OpenSSL in 6.7.11
In-Reply-To: <a0d545cb-6f93-7299-a465-f068a97c8b0a@cogapp.com>
References: <CAKz8yzatVrQ-NgQH4etUrDdx3WY_J77YWMXtQ774kinf6wcczw@mail.gmail.com>
	<a0d545cb-6f93-7299-a465-f068a97c8b0a@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <220ac32d-134c-a0e8-077a-9b405e9b7c57@cogapp.com>

(Apologies for multi-sending previous message.)  Interestingly, I find that 
the issue doesn't occur in 6.7.11 on Mac, but only when the standalone is run 
on Windows (Server 2012 R2).

The reported error is:
	error:14077410:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert handshake failure

Ben

On 08/01/2019 14:54, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> I've just run up against exactly this issue. It's the last six months of a 
> legacy app that's going to be retired, so I'm reluctant to go through the 
> whole process of validating it under LC 8.
> 
> Did you ever get a solution to this?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 14/09/2017 00:34, David Beck via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> For one of our applications we are still running LiveCode v6.7.11, and have
>> come across an issue hitting an API that only supports TLS 1.2 and later.
>> It appears that the version of OpenSSL / revsecurity that is being
>> distributed with v6.7.11 does not support TLS version 1.2. Upgrading to
>> LiveCode v8.1.6 solves the issue, however, there are some upgrade related
>> "bumps" that we will need some time to work through, so it will take some
>> time to resolve this issue through moving to LC8.
>>
>> Does anybody know how we might obtain / build a version of revsecurity that
>> works with 6.7.11 with the most recent version of OpenSSL?
>>
>> Thank you in advance for any help!
>>
>> David Beck
>> Rotunda Software
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan  8 10:51:20 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 15:51:20 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <31882692-5c80-447c-2386-8a13fdeca44e@fourthworld.com>
References: <1682aee1e78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<31882692-5c80-447c-2386-8a13fdeca44e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7E21E91B-0941-422F-98AF-BB2F82CEC438@iotecdigital.com>

SSD?

Bob S


> On Jan 7, 2019, at 17:59 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Maybe this is one more reason to move everything to the cloud, to end the tyrrany of overzealously monitored local disk I/O. :)
> 
> I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep our customers happy with disk-intensive apps.
> 
> Sugggestions?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan  8 11:08:11 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:08:11 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <7E21E91B-0941-422F-98AF-BB2F82CEC438@iotecdigital.com>
References: <7E21E91B-0941-422F-98AF-BB2F82CEC438@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <0b514315-bbf2-ed69-bbbc-f026d8ae271c@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 >> On Jan 7, 2019, at 17:59 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> Maybe this is one more reason to move everything to the cloud,
 >> to end the tyrrany of overzealously monitored local disk I/O. :)
 >>
 >> I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep our
 >> customers happy with disk-intensive apps.
 >>
 >> Sugggestions?
 >
 > SSD?

Alas, my tests were done on an SSD.  I haven't used platters for 
anything but backups in half a decade.

In a few years we may reach a point where the speed difference between 
disk and RAM will be so minor that it'll render half of the things they 
teach in CS101 obsolete.

But for now, the order-of-magnitude difference on writes introduced by 
Defender's RTP will likely remain a problem until Windows brings their 
AV monitoring methods in line with more advanced packages.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan  8 11:36:15 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 16:36:15 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <0b514315-bbf2-ed69-bbbc-f026d8ae271c@fourthworld.com>
References: <7E21E91B-0941-422F-98AF-BB2F82CEC438@iotecdigital.com>
	<0b514315-bbf2-ed69-bbbc-f026d8ae271c@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EF5D3F3C-281B-4FAF-AA6C-015803662863@iotecdigital.com>

It's kind of always been this way. I remember getting brand new Dells, installing all the software they need, joining domain etc. Last step was installing AV. The reason I put that last because the performance hit if I did it first would have doubled my deployment time. <sigh>

Bob S


> On Jan 8, 2019, at 08:08 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
> >> On Jan 7, 2019, at 17:59 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >>
> >> Maybe this is one more reason to move everything to the cloud,
> >> to end the tyrrany of overzealously monitored local disk I/O. :)
> >>
> >> I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep our
> >> customers happy with disk-intensive apps.
> >>
> >> Sugggestions?
> >
> > SSD?
> 
> Alas, my tests were done on an SSD.  I haven't used platters for anything but backups in half a decade.
> 
> In a few years we may reach a point where the speed difference between disk and RAM will be so minor that it'll render half of the things they teach in CS101 obsolete.
> 
> But for now, the order-of-magnitude difference on writes introduced by Defender's RTP will likely remain a problem until Windows brings their AV monitoring methods in line with more advanced packages.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Tue Jan  8 12:06:22 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 09:06:22 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
References: <652356ae-b8bb-011c-65ff-126aa882d3de@pair.com>
	<1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <09401a14-519a-6bc7-d0da-79777ca86d0f@sonic.net>

On 1/7/19 9:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

> It's super-annoying to try to scroll though, and no, I haven't read 
> every line (I'll leave that for more diligent souls like Mark Wieder, 
> who will probably run that when he reads this <g>).

<chortle> OMW

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jjs at krutt.org  Tue Jan  8 13:09:43 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 19:09:43 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <6e0dd239-c082-4aaf-d54b-aa11c1a60455@fourthworld.com>
References: <0a3926df-5b4b-977e-2439-a62922a67750@krutt.org>
	<6e0dd239-c082-4aaf-d54b-aa11c1a60455@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <d936abeb-09e8-ba89-7ed9-fad272d6d8f5@krutt.org>

Correct.

Op 8-1-2019 om 00:09 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
> JJS wrote:
> > I added .rev .livescript and livecode.exe to Windows Defender and have
> > not had an slow issue since and keeping fingers crossed.
>
> That's very valuable, thanks. So just to confirm, you did not need to 
> turn off Real Time Protection, just exclude two file types and one EXE?
>



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Tue Jan  8 14:48:53 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 11:48:53 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
References: <652356ae-b8bb-011c-65ff-126aa882d3de@pair.com>
	<1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6851beb6-37d4-d67d-3c88-4fd37704006e@sonic.net>

On 1/7/19 9:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> At a quick skim I see evidence of a lot of timers (which we would expect 
> given the SE's features), but an interesting thing about file access is 
> a lot of lstat and open calls apparently looking for, and not finding, 
> the App Overview stack file:
> 
> lstat("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 
> 0x7ffc8d185800) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
> open("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 
> O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
> 
> That much seems a bug, and I'll add notes to about that to the bug 
> report. Since it isn't finding the file it can't write to it, and 
> without writes I doubt it's the thing people are seeing when they turn 
> RTP on and off.? But worth looking into for the sake of tidiness.

Even more interesting IMO is all the attempts to access 
revapplicationoverview.mc

Not only can I not think of a valid reason for that, I can't grep a 
reference to revapplicationoverview anywhere in the source except for a 
couple of custom properties in field list of stack revPluginEditor.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan  8 14:56:42 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 11:56:42 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <6851beb6-37d4-d67d-3c88-4fd37704006e@sonic.net>
References: <6851beb6-37d4-d67d-3c88-4fd37704006e@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <07f07a8e-b646-30b7-25b5-53a2c9165402@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
 > On 1/7/19 9:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
 >> ...an interesting thing about file access is a lot of lstat and
 >> open calls apparently looking for, and not finding, the App
 >> Overview stack file:
 >>
 >> 
lstat("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 

 >> 0x7ffc8d185800) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
 >> 
open("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 

 >> O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
...
 > Even more interesting IMO is all the attempts to access
 > revapplicationoverview.mc

Thanks - I've added a note on that detail in my report:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21782

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From monte at appisle.net  Tue Jan  8 18:36:19 2019
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:36:19 +1100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <07f07a8e-b646-30b7-25b5-53a2c9165402@fourthworld.com>
References: <6851beb6-37d4-d67d-3c88-4fd37704006e@sonic.net>
	<07f07a8e-b646-30b7-25b5-53a2c9165402@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9A498163-21DF-4DC0-AC5F-26591045BBFB@appisle.net>



> On 9 Jan 2019, at 6:56 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> > Even more interesting IMO is all the attempts to access
> > revapplicationoverview.mc
> 
> Thanks - I've added a note on that detail in my report:
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21782 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21782>
This would be the engine trying lots of paths when trying to resolve revApplicationOverview. See `MCDispatch::findstackname`. Clearly it is being referenced somewhere and it is not in the stackFiles of home as it should be. Whether this is the cause or not of the issues being discussed I?m not sure. It could be that windows defender gets stressed when it sees an application stabbing around in the dark trying to find a file.

Cheers

Monte

From devin_asay at byu.edu  Tue Jan  8 18:47:18 2019
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 23:47:18 +0000
Subject: HTML entity escaping?
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioOq93Yw=0cJ8+eivu+1x80kOx0yUkRSw=XTQZwqJmk+-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<CAGASioOq93Yw=0cJ8+eivu+1x80kOx0yUkRSw=XTQZwqJmk+-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7A4B0993-CD58-4244-B4A7-F1C6C7756392@byu.edu>

David, I assume you mean you want to render the named entity as the proper glyph? The way to do that is with the htmlText property.

  set the htmlText of fld ?foo? to ?The book costs &euro;30."

Devin

On Jan 8, 2019, at 6:53 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Is there a way / anyone have a handler to escape named html entities in
Livecode?


&Aacute;,&aacute;,&Acirc;,&acirc;,&acute;,&AElig;,&aelig;,&Agrave...

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Tue Jan  8 20:14:39 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 17:14:39 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <9A498163-21DF-4DC0-AC5F-26591045BBFB@appisle.net>
References: <6851beb6-37d4-d67d-3c88-4fd37704006e@sonic.net>
	<07f07a8e-b646-30b7-25b5-53a2c9165402@fourthworld.com>
	<9A498163-21DF-4DC0-AC5F-26591045BBFB@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <58d590f2-0f33-50d5-4587-c1d4a87af495@sonic.net>

On 1/8/19 3:36 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 9 Jan 2019, at 6:56 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Even more interesting IMO is all the attempts to access
>>> revapplicationoverview.mc
>>
>> Thanks - I've added a note on that detail in my report:
>>
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21782 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21782>
> This would be the engine trying lots of paths when trying to resolve revApplicationOverview. See `MCDispatch::findstackname`. Clearly it is being referenced somewhere and it is not in the stackFiles of home as it should be. Whether this is the cause or not of the issues being discussed I?m not sure. It could be that windows defender gets stressed when it sees an application stabbing around in the dark trying to find a file.

Still begs the question as to why the engine is doing this. Now that 
I've sheepishly done a non-case-sensitive search for it, I see 
revApplicationOverview referenced a lot in the main backscript and I see 
that findstackname will take a stack short name as an argument and then 
try to find the stack file.

So is all that thrashing just the result of "is there is a stack..."? Or 
possibly "if the mode of stack..."? That could seriously be impacting 
the speed of lots of system messages.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From smudge.andy at googlemail.com  Wed Jan  9 00:34:59 2019
From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 23:34:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <58d590f2-0f33-50d5-4587-c1d4a87af495@sonic.net>
References: <1682aee1e78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<31882692-5c80-447c-2386-8a13fdeca44e@fourthworld.com>
	<d90af18e-e09c-aeef-b539-8febe7f7ceff@pair.com>
	<bb63abe1-b726-049b-2e58-3fcd71d2390c@fourthworld.com>
	<652356ae-b8bb-011c-65ff-126aa882d3de@pair.com>
	<1a7d017a-0fd7-a11e-38c6-4e775fe7fadf@fourthworld.com>
	<6851beb6-37d4-d67d-3c88-4fd37704006e@sonic.net>
	<07f07a8e-b646-30b7-25b5-53a2c9165402@fourthworld.com>
	<9A498163-21DF-4DC0-AC5F-26591045BBFB@appisle.net>
	<58d590f2-0f33-50d5-4587-c1d4a87af495@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1547012099405-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

This 'thrashing about' of messages may also explain why the situation (speed)
is impacted when the project browser and message  box are open?



-----
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jan  9 01:17:31 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 22:17:31 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <1547012099405-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1547012099405-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <6c029347-2ff7-b065-1981-e687c484a448@fourthworld.com>

AndyP wrote:

 > This 'thrashing about' of messages may also explain why the situation
 > (speed) is impacted when the project browser and message  box are
 > open?

Components that need frequent updates to reflect current state can 
indeed be tricky. You may find this report interesting, esp. Comment #3:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13585

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From beatco at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 04:23:21 2019
From: beatco at gmail.com (Beat Cornaz)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:23:21 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <CAEagrs3giO=zdV9Gke0RHCYM7CyLjGAHQN0SZnSfg+sT1rp22g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks everyone for the many suggestions. I will try them out and see which
one will work best.
Appreciate the multitude of ideas.

Cheers, Beat


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Jan  9 04:33:41 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:33:41 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <6c029347-2ff7-b065-1981-e687c484a448@fourthworld.com>
References: <1547012099405-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<6c029347-2ff7-b065-1981-e687c484a448@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4985A971-0C0A-4325-A269-BECD7170F8D0@m-r-d.de>

The whole discussion made me remembering that on my Mac i noticed a really significant performance loss in SE when outputting large data in message box.
When this is happening i can hear my fans boosting and the cpu temperature is increasing.

As soon as i close the message box or empty it the SE is responsive again,the temperature is lowering and the fans go into normal mode.

This script for example
repeat 20000
put "12asdfadsfasdfasdfasfasdf3453333333333333" &return after tOut
end repeat
put tout

is able to force this behaviour on an iMac 4Ghz i7 with 32GB ram.

Just test with LC9.0.2

Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de

> Am 09.01.2019 um 07:17 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> AndyP wrote:
> 
> > This 'thrashing about' of messages may also explain why the situation
> > (speed) is impacted when the project browser and message  box are
> > open?
> 
> Components that need frequent updates to reflect current state can indeed be tricky. You may find this report interesting, esp. Comment #3:
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13585
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Jan  9 04:41:59 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:41:59 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?
In-Reply-To: <4985A971-0C0A-4325-A269-BECD7170F8D0@m-r-d.de>
References: <1547012099405-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<6c029347-2ff7-b065-1981-e687c484a448@fourthworld.com>
	<4985A971-0C0A-4325-A269-BECD7170F8D0@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <6FA9CD30-1307-4B9F-A9A5-E93EC9421445@m-r-d.de>

I meant 

I have just tested it here with LC9.0.2

Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 09.01.2019 um 10:33 schrieb Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> The whole discussion made me remembering that on my Mac i noticed a really significant performance loss in SE when outputting large data in message box.
> When this is happening i can hear my fans boosting and the cpu temperature is increasing.
> 
> As soon as i close the message box or empty it the SE is responsive again,the temperature is lowering and the fans go into normal mode.
> 
> This script for example
> repeat 20000
> put "12asdfadsfasdfasdfasfasdf3453333333333333" &return after tOut
> end repeat
> put tout
> 
> is able to force this behaviour on an iMac 4Ghz i7 with 32GB ram.
> 
> Just test with LC9.0.2
> 
> Matthias Rebbe
> 
> free tools for Livecoders:
> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de
> 
>> Am 09.01.2019 um 07:17 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> AndyP wrote:
>> 
>>> This 'thrashing about' of messages may also explain why the situation
>>> (speed) is impacted when the project browser and message  box are
>>> open?
>> 
>> Components that need frequent updates to reflect current state can indeed be tricky. You may find this report interesting, esp. Comment #3:
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13585
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Wed Jan  9 05:02:26 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:02:26 +0000
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <7fe60dc8-3761-93db-38b5-c55f07df0207@gmail.com>
References: <FBB75772-65BE-40F2-8A68-E3ED40BF61B2@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
	<7fe60dc8-3761-93db-38b5-c55f07df0207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <834C1855-6790-481F-A0E7-992B752C655B@sosgeo.uio.no>

Richmond,
?If I were a rich man??
But I am not, I am just an old (soon 85) lover of HC living here up North  ? but this is love eternal?
What I  c o u l d   try to do is to get some rich and generous Norwegian idealist (RICH + GENEROUS + IDEALIST = an unbelievable value-combination in Scotland, not?) to pay for such a  job. How much would you charge for this app?
Regards
Ingar

3. des. 2018 kl. 10.15 skrev Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:




From jbv at souslelogo.com  Wed Jan  9 07:15:30 2019
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:15:30 +0100
Subject: Checking xml string
Message-ID: <edb0c80f3f36214b5edd770d7016dee6.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com>

Hi list,
Does anyone has a function that would remove "ghost tags" from
an xml string, for instance a </img> tag when there's no <img>
tag before ? More generally, a script that checks the consistency
of an xml string and points errors would do perhaps ?
Thanks in advance.
jbv




From revolution at derbrill.de  Wed Jan  9 11:48:25 2019
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Pfaff-Brill)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 17:48:25 +0100
Subject: Checking xml string
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1547031601.9694.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1547031601.9694.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2095EBCE-B784-4A34-A7A7-73D9F83EC332@derbrill.de>

Hi JBV,

</img> actually is valid in XML and is the short form of <img></img>

Do you get parsing errors?

Cheers,

Malte



From revolution at derbrill.de  Wed Jan  9 11:50:43 2019
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Pfaff-Brill)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 17:50:43 +0100
Subject: Checking xml string 
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1547031601.9694.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1547031601.9694.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6115CC8E-E4C6-4FFD-80C2-5E85E609FEAB@derbrill.de>

Sorry,

Was thinking <img/> 

Going into submarine mode again? Nothing to see here.


From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Jan  9 15:20:21 2019
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 20:20:21 +0000
Subject: TestInStandalone v_100
Message-ID: <0077C30A-24B2-4351-BF57-69A418842F91@uni-wh.de>

Hello Hermann,

this is a super HTML5 stack. It lets one easily test what works and does not work in HTML5 stacks.
Anyone interested in HTML5 stacks should at least have a look at it.

At times it is hard to believe that it is "just" a HTML5 stack, it seems like a little IDE in its own.

And also has code folding...

Thank you

Bernd



> hh via use-livecode Sun, 06 Jan 2019 20:00:25 -0800 wrote:
> 
> There is nearly no documentation in the dictionary what works (or works not)
> in HTML5 standalones. That's why I made this tool:
> 
> Here is "hhTestInStandalone", a HTML5 standalone that is ready for testing
> code snippets up to local libraries (script-only stacks).
> I use it to isolate critical script parts that run in the IDE but not in the
> HTML5 engine.
> 
> It has a LC-ScriptEditor (made in the browser) with a lot of features,
> especially it can access the system clipboard for copy and paste and it has
> code folding, colorising and indenting built-in.
> 
> ? You can set the script of several buttons (or use these as text containers).
> ? You can output to two fields and import images in order to work with them.
> 
> See
> (US) 
> http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/hhTestInStandalone-9.0.2hhX.html
> 
> (EU) 
> http://hyperhh.de/html5/hhTestInStandalone-9.0.2hhX.html
> 
> 
> Enjoy!
> 


From hh at hyperhh.de  Wed Jan  9 16:09:00 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 22:09:00 +0100
Subject: TestInStandalone v_100
Message-ID: <A7B38956-263D-42DC-ACEA-78735733F7D2@hyperhh.de>

> Bernd N. wrote:
> At times it is hard to believe that it is "just" a HTML5 stack, it
> seems like a little IDE in its own.

It is in fact an interesting question how much of the IDE can be "ported"
to a HTML5 standalone. Currently we are at the level of a non-debugging
message box. If somebody is willing to dive deeper into this -- I have
currently too many other projects...

> And also has code folding...

That's done by the codeMirror editor. All I had to do for that editor was
to write the setup, implement the communication with the standalone and
roughly define a language file "livecodescript".

And code folding is not at the high level of *bn's code folding* in the
IDE's script editor ;-)




From beatco at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 16:11:32 2019
From: beatco at gmail.com (Beat Cornaz)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 22:11:32 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <CAEagrs0SdFFUcrPz4w8Oym7XqL2W8V_xE2BdCgjTunpu1zFRGw@mail.gmail.com>

I have used the export snapshot and then the averaging. Works great. I had
forgotten about the export function (have been away from coding for 3
years).
I also had to implement Phil Davis' "set the screenMouseLoc to
globalLoc(tLocWithinMyStack)".
The average I got first (with only the mouseLoc) was offsetted to where I
clicked. Now it purs :-)

Thanks again, Beat


From hh at hyperhh.de  Wed Jan  9 16:48:23 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 22:48:23 +0100
Subject: Get RGB color of a specific screen location
Message-ID: <C0821B6A-9784-4571-A571-1A9216ACC8E1@hyperhh.de>

Looking again at your problem my experiences with both statistics
and images say that the *median* would be a better average than
the *arithmeticMean*. So you could try and compare both averages
(more exactly: location parameters of your WxH-color-distribution).

local t="temp"

-- hL,vL is the topleft of the pixel-rect on your screen
-- the width  of the pixel-rect is w. W is an integer >= 1.
-- the height of the pixel-rect is h. H is an integer >= 1.
-- tp is the average method "median" or (default:) "arithmeticMean"
-- average is taken from the pixel-colors of rect (hL,vL,hL+w,vL+h)
--
function averageColor w,h,hL,vL,tp
   export snapshot from rect (hL,vL,hL+w,vL+h) to img t as PNG
   put the imagedata of img t into iData
   put the alphadata of img t into aData
   repeat with i=1 to w*h
      put byteToNum(byte 4*i-2 of iData) into redA[i]
      put byteToNum(byte 4*i-1 of iData) into greenA[i]
      put byteToNum(byte 4*i   of iData) into blueA[i]
      put byteToNum(byte i     of aData) into alphaA[i]
   end repeat
   if tp is "median" then
      return trunc(median(redA)),trunc(median(greenA)), \
             trunc(median(blueA)),trunc(median(alphaA))
   else
      return trunc(avg(redA)),trunc(avg(greenA)), \
             trunc(avg(blueA)),trunc(avg(alphaA))
   end if
end averageColor

-- usage example:
on mouseUp
   lock screen; lock messages
   put 5 into w0; put 5 into h0
   put -w0+the left of this stack into sL 
   put -h0+the top of this stack into sT -- = without window bar
   ####
   if there is no img "temp" then create invisible img t
   if there is no field t then
      create fld t
      set rect of fld t to (0,0,128,23)
      set botleft of fld t to the botright of me
   end if
   if there is no grc t then
      create grc t
      set opaque of grc t to true
      set rect of grc t to (0,0,23,23)
      set botright of grc t to the botleft of me
   end if
   ####
   put averageColor(w0,h0,sL,sT,"median") into x --> returns r,g,b,alpha
   #### use x, for example:
   set backColor of grc t to item 1 to 3 of x
   --set blendlevel of grc t to round(100*(1-(item 4 of x)/255)) -- if wanted
   put x into fld t
   unlock screen; unlock messages
end mouseUp




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 18:56:16 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 23:56:16 +0000
Subject: HTML entity escaping?
In-Reply-To: <7A4B0993-CD58-4244-B4A7-F1C6C7756392@byu.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<CAGASioOq93Yw=0cJ8+eivu+1x80kOx0yUkRSw=XTQZwqJmk+-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<7A4B0993-CD58-4244-B4A7-F1C6C7756392@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPmEnNk77KFuKhFJnaVK2KQQE788FF7h5HHwERDYVcAmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Devin, yes that would work for an app - but this is for Livecode server
- I'm not sure but is there a way to do that with revIgniter - ie create a
field by script and use the functionality that way - this is the old hack
I'm using / found - if anyone finds it useful / can improve on it ( i
should probably use arrays):

*command* text_HtmlEntityEscape @someText, pNotQuotes
> *local* sNum, eNum
> *put* 0 into countNum
> *put* "(&[^;]+;)" into someReg
> *put* html_EntityList (pNotQuotes) into htmlEntities
> *put* html_EntityCharNums (pNotQuotes) into entityCharNums
> *set* the wholematches to true
>
> *repeat**get* matchchunk (someText, someReg, sNum, eNum)
> *if* sNum is not a number *then* *return* empty
> *-- breakpoint -- bug**if* it is false *then* *return* countNum
> *put* char sNum to eNum of someText into foundEntity
> *if* char 1 to 2 of foundEntity = "&#"
> *then**put* char 3 to -2 of foundEntity into cNum
> *if* cNum is not a number
> *then*
> *-- breakpoint -- bug**return* empty
> *end*
> *if*
> *else**put* itemOffset (foundEntity, htmlEntities) into itemNum
> *if* itemNum is 0
> *then*
> *-- next repeat -- infinite loop**end*
> *if**put* item itemNum of entityCharNums into cNum
> *end*
> *if**put* numToChar (cNum) into eChar
>
> *--**put* eChar into char sNum to eNum of someText
>
> *--**add* 1 to countNum
> *end*
> *repeat**return* countNum
> *end* text_HtmlEntityEscape
> *function* html_EntityList pNotQuotes
>
> */**
> * Updated to add &quote;*
> * Special characters (whose ASCII value is greater than 127) are encoded
> as HTML entities.*
> * Revolution recognizes the following named entities:*
> * */**get*
> "&Aacute;,&aacute;,&Acirc;,&acirc;,&acute;,&AElig;,&aelig;,&Agrave;,&agrave;,&Aring;,&aring;,&Atilde;,&atilde;,&Auml;,&auml;,&brvbar;,&Ccedil;,&ccedil;,&cedil;,&cent;,&copy;,&curren;,&deg;,&divide;,&Eacute;,&eacute;,&Ecirc;,&ecirc;,&Egrave;,&egrave;,&ETH;,&eth;,&Euml;,&euml;,&frac12;,&frac14;,&frac34;,&gt;,&Iacute;,&iacute;,&Icirc;,&icirc;,&iexcl;,&Igrave;,&igrave;,&iquest;,&Iuml;,&iuml;,&laquo;,&lt;,&macr;,&micro;,&middot;,&nbsp;,&not;,&Ntilde;,&ntilde;,&Oacute;,&oacute;,&Ocirc;,&ocirc;,&Ograve;,&ograve;,&ordf;,&ordm;,&Oslash;,&oslash;,&Otilde;,&otilde;,&Ouml;,&ouml;,&para;,&plusmn;,&pound;,&raquo;,&reg;,&sect;,&shy;,&sup1;,&sup2;,&sup3;,&szlig;,&THORN;,&thorn;,&times;,&Uacute;,&uacute;,&Ucirc;,&ucirc;,&Ugrave;,&ugrave;,&uml;,&Uuml;,&uuml;,&Yacute;,&yacute;,&yen;,&yuml"
>
> *--**put* "&amp;" & comma before it
> *if* pNotQuotes is not true
> *then**put* "&quot;" & comma before it
> *end*
> *if**return* it
> *end* html_EntityList
> *function* html_EntityCharNums pNotQuotes
> *get*
> "231,135,229,137,171,174,190,203,136,129,140,204,139,128,138,3,130,141,252,162,169,219,161,214,131,142,230,144,233,143,15,19,232,145,12,11,14,62,234,146,235,148,193,237,147,192,236,149,199,60,248,181,225,202,194,132,150,238,151,239,153,241,152,187,188,175,191,205,155,133,154,166,177,163,200,168,164,4,7,5,6,167,18,21,16,242,156,243,158,244,157,172,134,159,17,20,180,216"
>
> *--**put* 38 & comma before it
> *if* pNotQuotes is not true
> *then**put* 34 & comma before it
> *end*
> *if**return* it
> *end* html_EntityCharNums


On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 23:47, Devin Asay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> David, I assume you mean you want to render the named entity as the proper
> glyph? The way to do that is with the htmlText property.
>
>   set the htmlText of fld ?foo? to ?The book costs &euro;30."
>
> Devin
>
> On Jan 8, 2019, at 6:53 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Is there a way / anyone have a handler to escape named html entities in
> Livecode?
>
>
> &Aacute;,&aacute;,&Acirc;,&acirc;,&acute;,&AElig;,&aelig;,&Agrave...
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jan  9 21:02:17 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:02:17 -0800
Subject: HTML entity escaping?
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPmEnNk77KFuKhFJnaVK2KQQE788FF7h5HHwERDYVcAmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioPmEnNk77KFuKhFJnaVK2KQQE788FF7h5HHwERDYVcAmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a45769e8-0e55-c6cf-3368-45b661e5495e@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > yes that would work for an app - but this is for Livecode server

You can use a stack with a field in it for converting to htmlText, or 
run the html through the templateField.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Jan 10 07:50:35 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 13:50:35 +0100
Subject: HTML entity escaping?
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPmEnNk77KFuKhFJnaVK2KQQE788FF7h5HHwERDYVcAmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<CAGASioOq93Yw=0cJ8+eivu+1x80kOx0yUkRSw=XTQZwqJmk+-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<7A4B0993-CD58-4244-B4A7-F1C6C7756392@byu.edu>
	<CAGASioPmEnNk77KFuKhFJnaVK2KQQE788FF7h5HHwERDYVcAmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1AC1D72-55CA-44B6-B41D-FFEE5D113323@m-r-d.de>

Hi,

is there a reason for all the * in the script?

Makes it difficult  to read and uneeded work to get it correct in the SE.

Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de

> Am 10.01.2019 um 00:56 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Devin, yes that would work for an app - but this is for Livecode server
> - I'm not sure but is there a way to do that with revIgniter - ie create a
> field by script and use the functionality that way - this is the old hack
> I'm using / found - if anyone finds it useful / can improve on it ( i
> should probably use arrays):
> 
> *command* text_HtmlEntityEscape @someText, pNotQuotes
>> *local* sNum, eNum
>> *put* 0 into countNum
>> *put* "(&[^;]+;)" into someReg
>> *put* html_EntityList (pNotQuotes) into htmlEntities
>> *put* html_EntityCharNums (pNotQuotes) into entityCharNums
>> *set* the wholematches to true
>> 
>> *repeat**get* matchchunk (someText, someReg, sNum, eNum)
>> *if* sNum is not a number *then* *return* empty
>> *-- breakpoint -- bug**if* it is false *then* *return* countNum
>> *put* char sNum to eNum of someText into foundEntity
>> *if* char 1 to 2 of foundEntity = "&#"
>> *then**put* char 3 to -2 of foundEntity into cNum
>> *if* cNum is not a number
>> *then*
>> *-- breakpoint -- bug**return* empty
>> *end*
>> *if*
>> *else**put* itemOffset (foundEntity, htmlEntities) into itemNum
>> *if* itemNum is 0
>> *then*
>> *-- next repeat -- infinite loop**end*
>> *if**put* item itemNum of entityCharNums into cNum
>> *end*
>> *if**put* numToChar (cNum) into eChar
>> 
>> *--**put* eChar into char sNum to eNum of someText
>> 
>> *--**add* 1 to countNum
>> *end*
>> *repeat**return* countNum
>> *end* text_HtmlEntityEscape
>> *function* html_EntityList pNotQuotes
>> 
>> */**
>> * Updated to add &quote;*
>> * Special characters (whose ASCII value is greater than 127) are encoded
>> as HTML entities.*
>> * Revolution recognizes the following named entities:*
>> * */**get*
>> "&Aacute;,&aacute;,&Acirc;,&acirc;,&acute;,&AElig;,&aelig;,&Agrave;,&agrave;,&Aring;,&aring;,&Atilde;,&atilde;,&Auml;,&auml;,&brvbar;,&Ccedil;,&ccedil;,&cedil;,&cent;,&copy;,&curren;,&deg;,&divide;,&Eacute;,&eacute;,&Ecirc;,&ecirc;,&Egrave;,&egrave;,&ETH;,&eth;,&Euml;,&euml;,&frac12;,&frac14;,&frac34;,&gt;,&Iacute;,&iacute;,&Icirc;,&icirc;,&iexcl;,&Igrave;,&igrave;,&iquest;,&Iuml;,&iuml;,&laquo;,&lt;,&macr;,&micro;,&middot;,&nbsp;,&not;,&Ntilde;,&ntilde;,&Oacute;,&oacute;,&Ocirc;,&ocirc;,&Ograve;,&ograve;,&ordf;,&ordm;,&Oslash;,&oslash;,&Otilde;,&otilde;,&Ouml;,&ouml;,&para;,&plusmn;,&pound;,&raquo;,&reg;,&sect;,&shy;,&sup1;,&sup2;,&sup3;,&szlig;,&THORN;,&thorn;,&times;,&Uacute;,&uacute;,&Ucirc;,&ucirc;,&Ugrave;,&ugrave;,&uml;,&Uuml;,&uuml;,&Yacute;,&yacute;,&yen;,&yuml"
>> 
>> *--**put* "&amp;" & comma before it
>> *if* pNotQuotes is not true
>> *then**put* "&quot;" & comma before it
>> *end*
>> *if**return* it
>> *end* html_EntityList
>> *function* html_EntityCharNums pNotQuotes
>> *get*
>> "231,135,229,137,171,174,190,203,136,129,140,204,139,128,138,3,130,141,252,162,169,219,161,214,131,142,230,144,233,143,15,19,232,145,12,11,14,62,234,146,235,148,193,237,147,192,236,149,199,60,248,181,225,202,194,132,150,238,151,239,153,241,152,187,188,175,191,205,155,133,154,166,177,163,200,168,164,4,7,5,6,167,18,21,16,242,156,243,158,244,157,172,134,159,17,20,180,216"
>> 
>> *--**put* 38 & comma before it
>> *if* pNotQuotes is not true
>> *then**put* 34 & comma before it
>> *end*
>> *if**return* it
>> *end* html_EntityCharNums
> 
> 
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 23:47, Devin Asay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> David, I assume you mean you want to render the named entity as the proper
>> glyph? The way to do that is with the htmlText property.
>> 
>>  set the htmlText of fld ?foo? to ?The book costs &euro;30."
>> 
>> Devin
>> 
>> On Jan 8, 2019, at 6:53 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Is there a way / anyone have a handler to escape named html entities in
>> Livecode?
>> 
>> 
>> &Aacute;,&aacute;,&Acirc;,&acirc;,&acute;,&AElig;,&aelig;,&Agrave...
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> Devin Asay
>> Director
>> Office of Digital Humanities
>> Brigham Young University
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 10 10:35:11 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 15:35:11 +0000
Subject: HTML entity escaping?
In-Reply-To: <A1AC1D72-55CA-44B6-B41D-FFEE5D113323@m-r-d.de>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<CAGASioOq93Yw=0cJ8+eivu+1x80kOx0yUkRSw=XTQZwqJmk+-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<7A4B0993-CD58-4244-B4A7-F1C6C7756392@byu.edu>
	<CAGASioPmEnNk77KFuKhFJnaVK2KQQE788FF7h5HHwERDYVcAmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A1AC1D72-55CA-44B6-B41D-FFEE5D113323@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <3F03552E-12BF-40D5-885D-6089A7F009DA@iotecdigital.com>

Something about copy/paste into Thunderbird. 

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2019, at 04:50 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> is there a reason for all the * in the script?
> 
> Makes it difficult  to read and uneeded work to get it correct in the SE.
> 
> Matthias Rebbe




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 10 10:50:03 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 15:50:03 +0000
Subject: IMAP library, or support via tsNet?
In-Reply-To: <BE1720B6-28E8-4AED-80A5-5E23E7096650@techstrategies.com.au>
References: <11C9110E-88C1-48C1-AF16-AF081D1BB6E2@madmansoft.com>
	<4C9E1B0D-74D3-40A1-A80F-BFAFDE0A1D12@appisle.net>
	<44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
	<c5320578-a0e8-ec07-7093-27215f614e9d@cogapp.com>
	<97A8D445-D7C9-4FE2-9083-47045D356D43@m-r-d.de>
	<d81b20d0-88e2-c711-1656-6dbe876a2a36@cogapp.com>
	<BE1720B6-28E8-4AED-80A5-5E23E7096650@techstrategies.com.au>
Message-ID: <B9BD31C9-A1EC-48B6-A54C-6972A61F93FC@iotecdigital.com>

I tried this. I get 

219,13,11,tsNetCustomSync
465,13,11

I suspect tsNet only works in paid products? 

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2019, at 16:08 , Charles Warwick via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ben,
> 
> Support for IMAP was added into tsNet a while ago. There are a few lessons that I?ve added to LiveCode?s website on IMAP.
> 
> Lessons:
> 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/858279-how-to-use-tsnet-to-display-an-e-mail-message-from-an-imap-account
> 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/858974-how-to-use-tsnet-to-display-the-folders-stored-in-an-imap-account
> 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/860779-how-to-use-tsnet-to-delete-an-e-mail-message-from-an-imap-account
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Charles.


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jan 10 10:53:46 2019
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 16:53:46 +0100
Subject: IMAP library, or support via tsNet?
In-Reply-To: <B9BD31C9-A1EC-48B6-A54C-6972A61F93FC@iotecdigital.com>
References: <11C9110E-88C1-48C1-AF16-AF081D1BB6E2@madmansoft.com>
	<4C9E1B0D-74D3-40A1-A80F-BFAFDE0A1D12@appisle.net>
	<44557149-3247-0b1c-3af8-261868591474@techstrategies.com.au>
	<c5320578-a0e8-ec07-7093-27215f614e9d@cogapp.com>
	<97A8D445-D7C9-4FE2-9083-47045D356D43@m-r-d.de>
	<d81b20d0-88e2-c711-1656-6dbe876a2a36@cogapp.com>
	<BE1720B6-28E8-4AED-80A5-5E23E7096650@techstrategies.com.au>
	<B9BD31C9-A1EC-48B6-A54C-6972A61F93FC@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <37293FA1-A923-4F40-BDCE-477E8733575B@major-k.de>

Hi Bob,

> Am 10.01.2019 um 16:50 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I tried this. I get 
> 
> 219,13,11,tsNetCustomSync
> 465,13,11
> 
> I suspect tsNet only works in paid products? 

yep, tsNet is only delivered with LC >= Indy.

> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 3, 2019, at 16:08 , Charles Warwick via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Ben,
>> 
>> Support for IMAP was added into tsNet a while ago. There are a few lessons that I?ve added to LiveCode?s website on IMAP.
>> 
>> Lessons:
>> 
>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/858279-how-to-use-tsnet-to-display-an-e-mail-message-from-an-imap-account
>> 
>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/858974-how-to-use-tsnet-to-display-the-folders-stored-in-an-imap-account
>> 
>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/860779-how-to-use-tsnet-to-delete-an-e-mail-message-from-an-imap-account
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Charles.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 15:25:07 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:25:07 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
Message-ID: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>

So I just had a customer complain that windows were opening in odd locations with his multi-monitor setup: a MacBookPro with a Thunderbolt display. He has his displays arranged so that the bottoms were aligned with the 2nd display to the left of the MacBook.

So I hooked my laptop to my TV and discover some weirdness. I started with my displays aligned to the top and then got the screenRects and the screenLoc:

Main screen rect: 0,0,1280,800
2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
screenLoc: 640,400
(all as expected)

Then I realigned the screens so that the bottoms were aligned:

Main screen rect: 0,280,1280,1080
2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
screenLoc: 640,680

Why would the arrangement of the screens effect the screenRect and screenLoc of the main monitor?

Marty


From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Jan 10 16:58:18 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 16:58:18 -0500
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Marty, I saw this the other day...this is probably the bug you are
referencing.

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19419

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 3:25 PM Knapp Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> So I just had a customer complain that windows were opening in odd
> locations with his multi-monitor setup: a MacBookPro with a Thunderbolt
> display. He has his displays arranged so that the bottoms were aligned with
> the 2nd display to the left of the MacBook.
>
> So I hooked my laptop to my TV and discover some weirdness. I started with
> my displays aligned to the top and then got the screenRects and the
> screenLoc:
>
> Main screen rect: 0,0,1280,800
> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
> screenLoc: 640,400
> (all as expected)
>
> Then I realigned the screens so that the bottoms were aligned:
>
> Main screen rect: 0,280,1280,1080
> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
> screenLoc: 640,680
>
> Why would the arrangement of the screens effect the screenRect and
> screenLoc of the main monitor?
>
> Marty
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 17:24:35 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 14:24:35 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>

Wow, that?s been around for a while. Anybody have a work-around seeing as how this is unlikely to be fixed? Seems like setting the loc of a window to the center of the screen would be an often used feature. I never noticed it because I don?t have a multi-monitor setup.

Marty

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 1:58 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Marty, I saw this the other day...this is probably the bug you are
> referencing.
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19419
> 
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 3:25 PM Knapp Martin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> So I just had a customer complain that windows were opening in odd
>> locations with his multi-monitor setup: a MacBookPro with a Thunderbolt
>> display. He has his displays arranged so that the bottoms were aligned with
>> the 2nd display to the left of the MacBook.
>> 
>> So I hooked my laptop to my TV and discover some weirdness. I started with
>> my displays aligned to the top and then got the screenRects and the
>> screenLoc:
>> 
>> Main screen rect: 0,0,1280,800
>> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
>> screenLoc: 640,400
>> (all as expected)
>> 
>> Then I realigned the screens so that the bottoms were aligned:
>> 
>> Main screen rect: 0,280,1280,1080
>> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
>> screenLoc: 640,680
>> 
>> Why would the arrangement of the screens effect the screenRect and
>> screenLoc of the main monitor?
>> 
>> Marty




From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Jan 10 17:29:04 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:29:04 -0500
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>

i don't like how long a bug like this has been in the queue without being
fixed. I'm surprised it hasn't affected more people.... but i guess maybe
thats why its lower in the queue.

Sorry, but I don't know of any remedies for this.

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 5:24 PM Knapp Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Wow, that?s been around for a while. Anybody have a work-around seeing as
> how this is unlikely to be fixed? Seems like setting the loc of a window to
> the center of the screen would be an often used feature. I never noticed it
> because I don?t have a multi-monitor setup.
>
> Marty
>
> > On Jan 10, 2019, at 1:58 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Marty, I saw this the other day...this is probably the bug you are
> > referencing.
> >
> > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19419
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 3:25 PM Knapp Martin via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> So I just had a customer complain that windows were opening in odd
> >> locations with his multi-monitor setup: a MacBookPro with a Thunderbolt
> >> display. He has his displays arranged so that the bottoms were aligned
> with
> >> the 2nd display to the left of the MacBook.
> >>
> >> So I hooked my laptop to my TV and discover some weirdness. I started
> with
> >> my displays aligned to the top and then got the screenRects and the
> >> screenLoc:
> >>
> >> Main screen rect: 0,0,1280,800
> >> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
> >> screenLoc: 640,400
> >> (all as expected)
> >>
> >> Then I realigned the screens so that the bottoms were aligned:
> >>
> >> Main screen rect: 0,280,1280,1080
> >> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
> >> screenLoc: 640,680
> >>
> >> Why would the arrangement of the screens effect the screenRect and
> >> screenLoc of the main monitor?
> >>
> >> Marty
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From monte at appisle.net  Thu Jan 10 17:40:51 2019
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:40:51 +1100
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>

Tom the issue here is that it is arguable that this is a bug. We have lots of things to work on which we are sure about ;-)

To clarify what I mean. Which set of results is more correct?

Main screen rect: 0,280,1280,1080
2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080

Main screen rect: 0,0,1280,800
2nd screen rect: 1280,-280,3200,800

I think it would be convenient to have a screenLocs variant of screenLoc so you can:

set the loc of this stack to line (the screen of this stack) of the screenLocs

But that?s another issue as it?s not complicated to write a function using the screenRects

Cheers

Monte

> On 11 Jan 2019, at 9:29 am, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> i don't like how long a bug like this has been in the queue without being
> fixed. I'm surprised it hasn't affected more people.... but i guess maybe
> thats why its lower in the queue.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't know of any remedies for this.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 5:24 PM Knapp Martin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Wow, that?s been around for a while. Anybody have a work-around seeing as
>> how this is unlikely to be fixed? Seems like setting the loc of a window to
>> the center of the screen would be an often used feature. I never noticed it
>> because I don?t have a multi-monitor setup.
>> 
>> Marty
>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2019, at 1:58 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Marty, I saw this the other day...this is probably the bug you are
>>> referencing.
>>> 
>>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19419
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 3:25 PM Knapp Martin via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> So I just had a customer complain that windows were opening in odd
>>>> locations with his multi-monitor setup: a MacBookPro with a Thunderbolt
>>>> display. He has his displays arranged so that the bottoms were aligned
>> with
>>>> the 2nd display to the left of the MacBook.
>>>> 
>>>> So I hooked my laptop to my TV and discover some weirdness. I started
>> with
>>>> my displays aligned to the top and then got the screenRects and the
>>>> screenLoc:
>>>> 
>>>> Main screen rect: 0,0,1280,800
>>>> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
>>>> screenLoc: 640,400
>>>> (all as expected)
>>>> 
>>>> Then I realigned the screens so that the bottoms were aligned:
>>>> 
>>>> Main screen rect: 0,280,1280,1080
>>>> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
>>>> screenLoc: 640,680
>>>> 
>>>> Why would the arrangement of the screens effect the screenRect and
>>>> screenLoc of the main monitor?
>>>> 
>>>> Marty
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Jan 10 18:07:11 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:07:11 -0500
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <0afc230d-234e-8529-c00f-f220d9632330@researchware.com>

On 1/10/2019 5:40 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:
> I think it would be convenient to have a screenLocs variant of screenLoc so you can:

Monte,

Funny you should say that. See hibernated enhancement request 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21337

Paul Dupuis
Researchware



From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 18:41:17 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 15:41:17 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>

When I open Livecode on my dual monitor setup where the top of the 2nd monitor is higher than my main monitor, both the Livecode toolbar and the script editor open partially off screen with their title bars inaccessible. I understand that I can type something into the message box to relocate them, but how is this not a bug??

Marty

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Tom the issue here is that it is arguable that this is a bug. We have lots of things to work on which we are sure about ;-)
> 
> To clarify what I mean. Which set of results is more correct?
> 
> Main screen rect: 0,280,1280,1080
> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
> 
> Main screen rect: 0,0,1280,800
> 2nd screen rect: 1280,-280,3200,800
> 
> I think it would be convenient to have a screenLocs variant of screenLoc so you can:
> 
> set the loc of this stack to line (the screen of this stack) of the screenLocs
> 
> But that?s another issue as it?s not complicated to write a function using the screenRects
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
>> On 11 Jan 2019, at 9:29 am, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> i don't like how long a bug like this has been in the queue without being
>> fixed. I'm surprised it hasn't affected more people.... but i guess maybe
>> thats why its lower in the queue.
>> 
>> Sorry, but I don't know of any remedies for this.
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 5:24 PM Knapp Martin via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Wow, that?s been around for a while. Anybody have a work-around seeing as
>>> how this is unlikely to be fixed? Seems like setting the loc of a window to
>>> the center of the screen would be an often used feature. I never noticed it
>>> because I don?t have a multi-monitor setup.
>>> 
>>> Marty
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 10, 2019, at 1:58 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Marty, I saw this the other day...this is probably the bug you are
>>>> referencing.
>>>> 
>>>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19419
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 3:25 PM Knapp Martin via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> So I just had a customer complain that windows were opening in odd
>>>>> locations with his multi-monitor setup: a MacBookPro with a Thunderbolt
>>>>> display. He has his displays arranged so that the bottoms were aligned
>>> with
>>>>> the 2nd display to the left of the MacBook.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So I hooked my laptop to my TV and discover some weirdness. I started
>>> with
>>>>> my displays aligned to the top and then got the screenRects and the
>>>>> screenLoc:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Main screen rect: 0,0,1280,800
>>>>> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
>>>>> screenLoc: 640,400
>>>>> (all as expected)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Then I realigned the screens so that the bottoms were aligned:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Main screen rect: 0,280,1280,1080
>>>>> 2nd screen rect: 1280,0,3200,1080
>>>>> screenLoc: 640,680
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why would the arrangement of the screens effect the screenRect and
>>>>> screenLoc of the main monitor?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marty
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From monte at appisle.net  Thu Jan 10 18:56:45 2019
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:56:45 +1100
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>



> On 11 Jan 2019, at 10:41 am, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> When I open Livecode on my dual monitor setup where the top of the 2nd monitor is higher than my main monitor, both the Livecode toolbar and the script editor open partially off screen with their title bars inaccessible. I understand that I can type something into the message box to relocate them, but how is this not a bug??

I didn?t say that wasn?t a bug. That?s an IDE script issue. Most likely a preferences issue. Have you tried resetting or trashing preferences?

Cheers

Monte

From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 19:16:45 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 16:16:45 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>

I was merely using that as an example. In my app I too place a toolbar in the topLeft corner of the screen by setting the topLeft of the stack to 0,0. On a single screen setup it works fine. But I've just discovered that on a multi-monitor setup as I've described, the toolbar isn?t even visible it?s so far off. So in this case 0,0 is not the top left corner of the main monitor. How so I arrive at that point? How do I determine the actual middle of the screen? Since I don?t understand all the dynamics of how these things are being determined I have not been able to arrive at a work-around to place things where I?d like them on the screen.

Marty

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 3:56 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11 Jan 2019, at 10:41 am, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> When I open Livecode on my dual monitor setup where the top of the 2nd monitor is higher than my main monitor, both the Livecode toolbar and the script editor open partially off screen with their title bars inaccessible. I understand that I can type something into the message box to relocate them, but how is this not a bug??
> 
> I didn?t say that wasn?t a bug. That?s an IDE script issue. Most likely a preferences issue. Have you tried resetting or trashing preferences?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte



From monte at appisle.net  Thu Jan 10 19:39:31 2019
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 11:39:31 +1100
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>



> On 11 Jan 2019, at 11:16 am, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I was merely using that as an example. In my app I too place a toolbar in the topLeft corner of the screen by setting the topLeft of the stack to 0,0. On a single screen setup it works fine. But I've just discovered that on a multi-monitor setup as I've described, the toolbar isn?t even visible it?s so far off. So in this case 0,0 is not the top left corner of the main monitor. How so I arrive at that point? How do I determine the actual middle of the screen? Since I don?t understand all the dynamics of how these things are being determined I have not been able to arrive at a work-around to place things where I?d like them on the screen.

? set the topLeft of a stack to the topLeft of its screen below the menubar:
set the topLeft of stack ?Foo? to item 1 to 2 of line (the screen of stack ?Foo?) of the effective working screenRects

? set the topLeft of a stack to the topLeft of the main screen below the menubar
set the topLeft of stack ?Foo? to item 1 to 2 of the effective working screenRect

? set the loc of a stack to the center of its screen
local tLoc, tRect
put line (the screen of stack ?Foo?) of the screenRects into tRect
put item 1 of tRect + (item 3 of tRect - item 1 of tRect) div 2, \
      item 2 of tRect + (item 4 of tRect - item 2 of tRect) div 2 into tLoc
set the loc of stack ?Foo? to tLoc

? set the loc of a stack to the center of the main screen
set the loc of stack ?Foo? to the screenLoc

Hope these help! FWIW these should remain correct even if the general consensus is that the desktop space should have an 0,0  origin for the main screen.

Cheers

Monte




From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 19:42:05 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 16:42:05 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>

I will give those a spin - thanks Monte.

Marty
> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11 Jan 2019, at 11:16 am, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I was merely using that as an example. In my app I too place a toolbar in the topLeft corner of the screen by setting the topLeft of the stack to 0,0. On a single screen setup it works fine. But I've just discovered that on a multi-monitor setup as I've described, the toolbar isn?t even visible it?s so far off. So in this case 0,0 is not the top left corner of the main monitor. How so I arrive at that point? How do I determine the actual middle of the screen? Since I don?t understand all the dynamics of how these things are being determined I have not been able to arrive at a work-around to place things where I?d like them on the screen.
> 
> ? set the topLeft of a stack to the topLeft of its screen below the menubar:
> set the topLeft of stack ?Foo? to item 1 to 2 of line (the screen of stack ?Foo?) of the effective working screenRects
> 
> ? set the topLeft of a stack to the topLeft of the main screen below the menubar
> set the topLeft of stack ?Foo? to item 1 to 2 of the effective working screenRect
> 
> ? set the loc of a stack to the center of its screen
> local tLoc, tRect
> put line (the screen of stack ?Foo?) of the screenRects into tRect
> put item 1 of tRect + (item 3 of tRect - item 1 of tRect) div 2, \
>      item 2 of tRect + (item 4 of tRect - item 2 of tRect) div 2 into tLoc
> set the loc of stack ?Foo? to tLoc
> 
> ? set the loc of a stack to the center of the main screen
> set the loc of stack ?Foo? to the screenLoc
> 
> Hope these help! FWIW these should remain correct even if the general consensus is that the desktop space should have an 0,0  origin for the main screen.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte



From brian at milby7.com  Thu Jan 10 19:41:54 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:41:54 -0600
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1acf1423-ab07-40e8-a664-d55d5ff917a5@Spark>

put item 1 of the working screenrect into tLeft
put item 2 of the working screenrect into tTop

set the top of stack ?x? to tTop
set the left of stack ?x? to tLeft

I?m sure there are more efficient ways, but that is the idea. ?You just need to calculate the offset from the origin manually. ?Of course you will want to wrap in lock screen as well.

If you want to use a different monitor, then use the screenrects and select the correct line.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 10, 2019, 6:17 PM -0600, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I was merely using that as an example. In my app I too place a toolbar in the topLeft corner of the screen by setting the topLeft of the stack to 0,0. On a single screen setup it works fine. But I've just discovered that on a multi-monitor setup as I've described, the toolbar isn?t even visible it?s so far off. So in this case 0,0 is not the top left corner of the main monitor. How so I arrive at that point? How do I determine the actual middle of the screen? Since I don?t understand all the dynamics of how these things are being determined I have not been able to arrive at a work-around to place things where I?d like them on the screen.
>
> Marty
>
> > On Jan 10, 2019, at 3:56 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 11 Jan 2019, at 10:41 am, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > When I open Livecode on my dual monitor setup where the top of the 2nd monitor is higher than my main monitor, both the Livecode toolbar and the script editor open partially off screen with their title bars inaccessible. I understand that I can type something into the message box to relocate them, but how is this not a bug??
> >
> > I didn?t say that wasn?t a bug. That?s an IDE script issue. Most likely a preferences issue. Have you tried resetting or trashing preferences?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Monte
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Thu Jan 10 20:03:56 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 19:03:56 -0600
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>

You may want to use the ?effective topLeft? though. Otherwise the title bar of the window could be off screen.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 10, 2019, 6:42 PM -0600, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I will give those a spin - thanks Monte.
>
> Marty
> > On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 11 Jan 2019, at 11:16 am, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was merely using that as an example. In my app I too place a toolbar in the topLeft corner of the screen by setting the topLeft of the stack to 0,0. On a single screen setup it works fine. But I've just discovered that on a multi-monitor setup as I've described, the toolbar isn?t even visible it?s so far off. So in this case 0,0 is not the top left corner of the main monitor. How so I arrive at that point? How do I determine the actual middle of the screen? Since I don?t understand all the dynamics of how these things are being determined I have not been able to arrive at a work-around to place things where I?d like them on the screen.
> >
> > ? set the topLeft of a stack to the topLeft of its screen below the menubar:
> > set the topLeft of stack ?Foo? to item 1 to 2 of line (the screen of stack ?Foo?) of the effective working screenRects
> >
> > ? set the topLeft of a stack to the topLeft of the main screen below the menubar
> > set the topLeft of stack ?Foo? to item 1 to 2 of the effective working screenRect
> >
> > ? set the loc of a stack to the center of its screen
> > local tLoc, tRect
> > put line (the screen of stack ?Foo?) of the screenRects into tRect
> > put item 1 of tRect + (item 3 of tRect - item 1 of tRect) div 2, \
> > item 2 of tRect + (item 4 of tRect - item 2 of tRect) div 2 into tLoc
> > set the loc of stack ?Foo? to tLoc
> >
> > ? set the loc of a stack to the center of the main screen
> > set the loc of stack ?Foo? to the screenLoc
> >
> > Hope these help! FWIW these should remain correct even if the general consensus is that the desktop space should have an 0,0 origin for the main screen.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Monte
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From monte at appisle.net  Thu Jan 10 20:06:44 2019
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 12:06:44 +1100
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
Message-ID: <65131A42-6E47-4C18-ADF2-31117081D715@appisle.net>

Good catch Brian!

> On 11 Jan 2019, at 12:03 pm, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You may want to use the ?effective topLeft? though. Otherwise the title bar of the window could be off screen.



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Jan 10 21:05:12 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 21:05:12 -0500
Subject: Livecode Server Post
In-Reply-To: <65131A42-6E47-4C18-ADF2-31117081D715@appisle.net>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<65131A42-6E47-4C18-ADF2-31117081D715@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <005701d4a952$19652b20$4c2f8160$@net>

When do a post to an LC server script from a .html form no output of "put"s are displayed, just a blank screen. There is also a slight delay until the screen clears. I tested to see if the LC script is actually being executed. It is because I created a file but no display of "Put"s. If I change the method to "get" in the .html form the put in the same .lc is immediately displayed with no delay.
I want to use post so the params aren?t in the URL and the page can't be bookmarked.
LC server 9.02 Business on on-rev diesel.

What am I missing?

Thanks All!

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net





From paul at livecode.org  Thu Jan 10 21:08:16 2019
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:08:16 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
Message-ID: <B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>

Interesting! - it does appear to work, but that combination is not in the dictionary under ?topLeft? as far as I can see, and ?topLeft? is missing from the list of properties shown under the ?effective? description.

Paul

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 17:03, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?effective topLeft?



From brian at milby7.com  Thu Jan 10 21:23:57 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:23:57 -0600
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <4ebfb584-3133-437d-9471-48efcc725709@Spark>

It is part of the ?rectangle? property. ?The individual pieces are not enumerated.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 10, 2019, 8:08 PM -0600, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Interesting! - it does appear to work, but that combination is not in the dictionary under ?topLeft? as far as I can see, and ?topLeft? is missing from the list of properties shown under the ?effective? description.
>
> Paul
>
> > On Jan 10, 2019, at 17:03, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?effective topLeft?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Thu Jan 10 21:44:52 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:44:52 -0600
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <5fab4e8c-8812-42d6-8ef4-c87586a81119@Spark>

I do see one issue with the ?effective? dictionary entry though. ?Normally you are not able to set effective properties, but for stack rect properties it is permitted.

topLeft and topRight also need a clarifying statement to indicate that multiple monitors could cause the main screen topLeft to not be 0,0.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 10, 2019, 8:08 PM -0600, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Interesting! - it does appear to work, but that combination is not in the dictionary under ?topLeft? as far as I can see, and ?topLeft? is missing from the list of properties shown under the ?effective? description.
>
> Paul
>
> > On Jan 10, 2019, at 17:03, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?effective topLeft?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 23:02:38 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:02:38 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <5fab4e8c-8812-42d6-8ef4-c87586a81119@Spark>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
	<5fab4e8c-8812-42d6-8ef4-c87586a81119@Spark>
Message-ID: <5DF699CD-847B-4062-8C5E-71C9641110E9@gmail.com>

OK, I?m making progress here. But I?m finding that ask and answer dialogs are opening off-screen. How are their positions determined?

Marty

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 6:44 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I do see one issue with the ?effective? dictionary entry though.  Normally you are not able to set effective properties, but for stack rect properties it is permitted.
> 
> topLeft and topRight also need a clarifying statement to indicate that multiple monitors could cause the main screen topLeft to not be 0,0.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Jan 10, 2019, 8:08 PM -0600, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> Interesting! - it does appear to work, but that combination is not in the dictionary under ?topLeft? as far as I can see, and ?topLeft? is missing from the list of properties shown under the ?effective? description.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2019, at 17:03, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?effective topLeft?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Jan 11 02:39:02 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:39:02 +0100
Subject: Livecode Server Post
In-Reply-To: <005701d4a952$19652b20$4c2f8160$@net>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<65131A42-6E47-4C18-ADF2-31117081D715@appisle.net>
	<005701d4a952$19652b20$4c2f8160$@net>
Message-ID: <D44A4685-9DB7-487F-B5AE-0F559702079E@m-r-d.de>

Hi Ralph,

i tried here now in the message box with the following lc server script
<?lc
put the version && the editiontype
put "<br><br>"

put "this is the posted value for test:"
put "<br>"
put $_POST["test"]
?>


TIO On-Rev  Commercial Server 7.1
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc <https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc>"
put it

TIO On-Rev Community server 9.0.1
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc9 <https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc9>"
put it

HostM Professional Server 9.0.2
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://mr.dermattes.de/post.lc <https://mr.dermattes.de/post.lc>"
put it


All 3 tests are successful and all expected information including the post value is displayed.


I will keep the post.lc files online for the next 2 days for you to test with my accounts.

Regards,

Matthias


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 11.01.2019 um 03:05 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> When do a post to an LC server script from a .html form no output of "put"s are displayed, just a blank screen. There is also a slight delay until the screen clears. I tested to see if the LC script is actually being executed. It is because I created a file but no display of "Put"s. If I change the method to "get" in the .html form the put in the same .lc is immediately displayed with no delay.
> I want to use post so the params aren?t in the URL and the page can't be bookmarked.
> LC server 9.02 Business on on-rev diesel.
> 
> What am I missing?
> 
> Thanks All!
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net <mailto:rdimola at evergreeninfo.net>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Jan 11 08:08:22 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:08:22 +0000
Subject: Getting Browser Widget to Read Local Assets
Message-ID: <B7D16A18-959F-4F2E-88F7-E2911D188377@hindu.org>

I finally got around to implementing this. Works great! In terms of being a loader for

on browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL
   if pURl is not empty then
      send "hideloader" to me in 1 second
   end if
[snip]

One caveat: Old path problem. I can't get the browser to read a local image in this case. Tried full path 

specialFolderPath("resources")

which yields this:

background-image
url( '/Users/brahmanathaswami/Documents/_Siva-Siva-App/assets/img/siva-darshan/who-is-siva_1200x800.jpg');

I tried a manual relative path

background-image
url( '../assets/img/siva-darshan/who-is-siva_1200x800.jpg');

against this folder layout  

assets
  img
     siva-darshan
	 who-is-siva_1200x800.jpg
view
  SivaSivaBrowser.livecode

It still doesn?t show?

	BR

 

? hh wrote:

    The following works tested here on desktop, should work everywhere where the browser widget works.
    
    1. Overlay browser widget "browser" with a browser widget "loader" (that displays a loading animation).
    2. Load the slow loading url into widget "browser".
    3. Hide widget "loader" by browserDocumentLoadComplete of widget "browser".
    
    For example:
    http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=173867#p173867


From hh at hyperhh.de  Fri Jan 11 09:58:20 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:58:20 +0100
Subject: Getting Browser Widget to Read Local Assets
Message-ID: <DAB22FE5-ECC2-4ADB-A9D6-F50529FBD807@hyperhh.de>

Field and button names below relate to my example stack.
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=173867#p173867

To use a local file (= NOT from a local or remote server) you have
to load the image from a stack property or url("binfile:"...) and
add it inline (base64 encoded):

Step 1: imageVariable = stack property or url("binfile:"...)
Step 2: put base64Encode(imageVariable) into b64Data
Step 3: replace linefeed with empty in b64Data --> IMPORTANT!!
Step 4: write in fld "HTML" of my example stack

background-image: url('data:image/jpg;base64,<b64Data>')

**** The width x height of the image to load and the width x height
of the loader in fld "HTML" should roughly coincide:
You don't really want to load a 1200x800 image as background
into a 192x128 rotating DOM object?

You could also do step 1 to 4 once and put compress(fld "HTML")
into a <stack property>, then set later on in btn "LoadURL" the
htmltext to decompress(<stack property>).
And if the image is large, then you could use in the script of
widget "Browser" of the example stack:

on hideloader
  delete widget "loader" --> instead of hide widget "loader"
end hideloader




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Jan 11 10:43:37 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:43:37 +0100
Subject: Livecode Server Post
In-Reply-To: <D44A4685-9DB7-487F-B5AE-0F559702079E@m-r-d.de>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<65131A42-6E47-4C18-ADF2-31117081D715@appisle.net>
	<005701d4a952$19652b20$4c2f8160$@net>
	<D44A4685-9DB7-487F-B5AE-0F559702079E@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <935C4602-4EAA-4AB4-B5FC-2314ABF6D944@m-r-d.de>

I just noticed, that my email client added the url twice.

So please remove the part beginning with <https.....


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri Jan 11 11:00:14 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 11:00:14 -0500
Subject: Livecode Server Post
In-Reply-To: <D44A4685-9DB7-487F-B5AE-0F559702079E@m-r-d.de>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>	<65131A42-6E47-4C18-ADF2-31117081D715@appisle.net>	<005701d4a952$19652b20$4c2f8160$@net>
	<D44A4685-9DB7-487F-B5AE-0F559702079E@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <005701d4a9c6$c04cbba0$40e632e0$@net>

Ahh....

Your test worked even when I ran it on my account. This confused me for a while but I finally found my problem.
Unless you reference the $_Post variable once the script hangs for a second and then returns nothing. Bug or feature?
I Commented out the last line "put $_POST["test"]" of your post.lc and it hangs for a moment and return nothing. But change it to "put $_POST["test"] into tVar" then the previous puts are returned(displayed) and no momentary hang.

Matthias, Thanks for your Help!! This one was a head scratcher for a 1/2 hour. I don't know how long it would have taken if you did not send me a script that worked. I was just doing some initial tests to get wired into LC server and was just testing $_Server["REQUEST_METHOD"] to examine the request method. Funny though, if the method is "get" then there is no requirement to touch the $_Get variable.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:39 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Matthias Rebbe
Subject: Re: Livecode Server Post

Hi Ralph,

i tried here now in the message box with the following lc server script <?lc put the version && the editiontype put "<br><br>"

put "this is the posted value for test:"
put "<br>"
put $_POST["test"]
?>


TIO On-Rev  Commercial Server 7.1
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc <https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc>"
put it

TIO On-Rev Community server 9.0.1
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc9 <https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc9>"
put it

HostM Professional Server 9.0.2
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://mr.dermattes.de/post.lc <https://mr.dermattes.de/post.lc>"
put it


All 3 tests are successful and all expected information including the post value is displayed.


I will keep the post.lc files online for the next 2 days for you to test with my accounts.

Regards,

Matthias


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 11.01.2019 um 03:05 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> When do a post to an LC server script from a .html form no output of "put"s are displayed, just a blank screen. There is also a slight delay until the screen clears. I tested to see if the LC script is actually being executed. It is because I created a file but no display of "Put"s. If I change the method to "get" in the .html form the put in the same .lc is immediately displayed with no delay.
> I want to use post so the params aren?t in the URL and the page can't be bookmarked.
> LC server 9.02 Business on on-rev diesel.
> 
> What am I missing?
> 
> Thanks All!
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net <mailto:rdimola at evergreeninfo.net>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 11 10:59:28 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:59:28 +0000
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FB90A87-AB79-4611-A0B5-1AE122FCB054@iotecdigital.com>

I was probably the first person to mention it. I get around it by setting the position of my stacks when opened or resumed to be within the bounds of the monitor. Actually, this will happen when switching from the single built-in display of a laptop to a dual display with the laptop closed (built-in monitor off). If the second display is a lower resolution (as it likely will be with retina displays) the OS will position open windows in the nearest spot that can display the entire window if possible. 

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2019, at 14:29 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> i don't like how long a bug like this has been in the queue without being
> fixed. I'm surprised it hasn't affected more people.... but i guess maybe
> thats why its lower in the queue.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't know of any remedies for this.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 11 11:01:20 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:01:20 +0000
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <1BE9FD2E-29A8-4A61-9EEF-2F481A373A5A@iotecdigital.com>

Thanks Monte! This will enhance the procedures I have in place! 

Bob S


> On Jan 10, 2019, at 16:39 , Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ? set the topLeft of a stack to the topLeft of its screen below the menubar:
> set the topLeft of stack ?Foo? to item 1 to 2 of line (the screen of stack ?Foo?) of the effective working screenRects
> 
> ? set the topLeft of a stack to the topLeft of the main screen below the menubar
> set the topLeft of stack ?Foo? to item 1 to 2 of the effective working screenRect
> 
> ? set the loc of a stack to the center of its screen
> local tLoc, tRect
> put line (the screen of stack ?Foo?) of the screenRects into tRect
> put item 1 of tRect + (item 3 of tRect - item 1 of tRect) div 2, \
>      item 2 of tRect + (item 4 of tRect - item 2 of tRect) div 2 into tLoc
> set the loc of stack ?Foo? to tLoc
> 
> ? set the loc of a stack to the center of the main screen
> set the loc of stack ?Foo? to the screenLoc
> 
> Hope these help! FWIW these should remain correct even if the general consensus is that the desktop space should have an 0,0  origin for the main screen.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte


From Mark at rauterkus.com  Sat Jan 12 08:31:12 2019
From: Mark at rauterkus.com (Mark Rauterkus)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 08:31:12 -0500
Subject: Is there a web developer road map for LiveCode?
Message-ID: <CAGV_Z3AX5tJGZjuHomHGz+H73imhGs0W_CVWuL3A4kP9t0_GSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

These others seem complicated. Not that LC is a walk in the park, but it
might be nice to input one.

https://medium.com/level-up-web/developer-roadmaps-all-in-one-place-75c0402db0e0


Mark
-- 
-- 
Ta.


Mark Rauterkus       Mark.Rauterkus at gmail.com
Swimming and Water Polo Coach, Schenley High School, Pittsburgh, PA
http://CLOH.wikia.com
412 298 3432 = cell


From dfepstein at comcast.net  Sat Jan 12 11:01:45 2019
From: dfepstein at comcast.net (David Epstein)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:01:45 -0500
Subject: Repeat for each line of a variable or field?
Message-ID: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>

I've done a little bit of speed testing showing extremely slight differences, but wonder if anyone who understands the "engine" can advise on this:

Is there a difference between these two approaches?

(1) put fld 1 into txt; repeat for each line k in txt; etc.

and
(2) repeat for each line k in fld 1; etc.

For no very good reason, I tend to do (1), but have begun to wonder:  for a very lengthy field 1, does my writing to a variable use up more RAM, and so perhaps injure performance?  Or is the engine in effect writing to a variable either way?  Is a variable read more quickly than a field?  

Many thanks.
David Epstein

From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Jan 12 11:37:22 2019
From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 08:37:22 -0800
Subject: Repeat for each line of a variable or field?
In-Reply-To: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <98AE54CA-3DF0-4FD8-8F25-5DFBFBB7517D@pacifier.com>

It is faster to use version 1 because accessing the
lines in a variable is faster than accessing lines in
a field.

JB


> On Jan 12, 2019, at 8:01 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I've done a little bit of speed testing showing extremely slight differences, but wonder if anyone who understands the "engine" can advise on this:
> 
> Is there a difference between these two approaches?
> 
> (1) put fld 1 into txt; repeat for each line k in txt; etc.
> 
> and
> (2) repeat for each line k in fld 1; etc.
> 
> For no very good reason, I tend to do (1), but have begun to wonder:  for a very lengthy field 1, does my writing to a variable use up more RAM, and so perhaps injure performance?  Or is the engine in effect writing to a variable either way?  Is a variable read more quickly than a field?  
> 
> Many thanks.
> David Epstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Sat Jan 12 11:48:00 2019
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 17:48:00 +0100
Subject: Repeat for each line of a variable or field?
In-Reply-To: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <36DA9C15-CE54-48DB-B3CF-B6BEB09CBB98@me.com>

When using a field with close to 45000 lines, the second (using the lines of the field) version takes on average 23 milliseconds, whereas using a variable takes on average 15 milliseconds. For a field /variable with 5000 lines  the difference is about 2 milliseconds here. The actual speed and difference will vary according to your hardware I guess.

Best regards
Tore Nilsen



> 12. jan. 2019 kl. 17:01 skrev David Epstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I've done a little bit of speed testing showing extremely slight differences, but wonder if anyone who understands the "engine" can advise on this:
> 
> Is there a difference between these two approaches?
> 
> (1) put fld 1 into txt; repeat for each line k in txt; etc.
> 
> and
> (2) repeat for each line k in fld 1; etc.
> 
> For no very good reason, I tend to do (1), but have begun to wonder:  for a very lengthy field 1, does my writing to a variable use up more RAM, and so perhaps injure performance?  Or is the engine in effect writing to a variable either way?  Is a variable read more quickly than a field?  
> 
> Many thanks.
> David Epstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Jan 12 12:23:27 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:23:27 -0600
Subject: Repeat for each line of a variable or field?
In-Reply-To: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Variables are always faster, but how much faster depends on what you're 
doing in the "etc" part. Just reading the lines will be quicker than 
writing back to the field on each iteration.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 12, 2019 10:03:33 AM David Epstein via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I've done a little bit of speed testing showing extremely slight 
> differences, but wonder if anyone who understands the "engine" can advise 
> on this:
>
> Is there a difference between these two approaches?
>
> (1) put fld 1 into txt; repeat for each line k in txt; etc.
>
> and
> (2) repeat for each line k in fld 1; etc.
>
> For no very good reason, I tend to do (1), but have begun to wonder:  for a 
> very lengthy field 1, does my writing to a variable use up more RAM, and so 
> perhaps injure performance?  Or is the engine in effect writing to a 
> variable either way?  Is a variable read more quickly than a field?
>
> Many thanks.
> David Epstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Sat Jan 12 18:25:22 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 18:25:22 -0500
Subject: XMLHttpRequest from JavaScript to LC Server
In-Reply-To: <1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>

I have real-time "XMLHttpRequest"s in JavaScript from an html page to LC
Server working. One can then call their favorite LC functions from a
webpage(auto fill/ predictive search for example) instead of re-writing them
in JavaScript. The webpage can be on a different server domain. Here's what
I have working:
1) Methods==> Get and Post.
2) Cross Domain==>CORS policy satisfied. This allows you field LC Server
requests from a different domain. You can choose what domains to accept
requests from to maintain server security.
3) Sync and Async JavaScript requests to LC Server.
4) LC Server sessions maintained.
5) Creating cookies from LC server request.

If this isn't old news... then let me know if this is of interest to anyone.
If so I will post example html JavaScript webpage and server side LC script.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sat Jan 12 19:29:12 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 16:29:12 -0800
Subject: XMLHttpRequest from JavaScript to LC Server
In-Reply-To: <004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
Message-ID: <edca497f-4f6e-196f-1ce6-d81b64e982b2@sonic.net>

On 1/12/19 3:25 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:

> 2) Cross Domain==>CORS policy satisfied. This allows you field LC Server
> requests from a different domain. You can choose what domains to accept
> requests from to maintain server security.

> 
> let me know if this is of interest to anyone.

Definitely. Especially your implementation of #2.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 02:00:27 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 23:00:27 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.1rc1 is available
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtq0tZb69o5b=dWG_HX02fCVpQRwNhWo_ReUmXfRsXGAvA@mail.gmail.com>

As usual, you can get Navigator here
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab it
from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.

Also, as part of this update I created several new scripts. I recorded my
screen while using Navigator to convert those scripts to behaviors. It's
super-easy, and the video only runs a minute-twenty. Find out how easy it is
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soY1KY0ztcc>!

For details read the release notes
<https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/commit/7c89a6eb1c28ab5a7716b5aa7b9b3fe81a7c9fd8>,
but briefly this:

-- fixes the prefs file not saving.
-- fixes the card popup menu not including a fold-level menu.
-- significantly improves the relayering code. In particular, relayering
groups works properly now.
-- adds an editor for custom list strings, with a preview so you can see if
your string will work and what it will look like.

If you find any bugs, file them here
<https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues>.


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Jan 13 09:17:48 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:17:48 +0100
Subject: XMLHttpRequest from JavaScript to LC Server
In-Reply-To: <004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
Message-ID: <6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>

Yes, please post the examples.

Regards,

Matthias

Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 13.01.2019 um 00:25 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> I have real-time "XMLHttpRequest"s in JavaScript from an html page to LC
> Server working. One can then call their favorite LC functions from a
> webpage(auto fill/ predictive search for example) instead of re-writing them
> in JavaScript. The webpage can be on a different server domain. Here's what
> I have working:
> 1) Methods==> Get and Post.
> 2) Cross Domain==>CORS policy satisfied. This allows you field LC Server
> requests from a different domain. You can choose what domains to accept
> requests from to maintain server security.
> 3) Sync and Async JavaScript requests to LC Server.
> 4) LC Server sessions maintained.
> 5) Creating cookies from LC server request.
> 
> If this isn't old news... then let me know if this is of interest to anyone.
> If so I will post example html JavaScript webpage and server side LC script.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net <mailto:rdimola at evergreeninfo.net>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From hh at hyperhh.de  Sun Jan 13 12:28:16 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 18:28:16 +0100
Subject: LCImageToolBox_v190
Message-ID: <7024091B-BB14-407B-AAE5-8C706ACEED9A@hyperhh.de>

LCImageToolBox89 and LCImageToolBox6789Mac are updated to v190:
Added 5 methods of a stippling effect
[ see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stippling ]

Download LCImageToolBox from  "Sample Stacks" or
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/826/ (for LC 8/9)
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/827/ (for LC 6/7/8/9 Mac)



From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Sun Jan 13 15:17:51 2019
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:17:51 -0500
Subject: How to remove emoji's from unicode string
In-Reply-To: <6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
	<6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>

Hi All,

The recent conversations on using offset() with Unicode strings was very enlightening, thanks to all that took part!.

I have data stored in UTF8mb4. I use textDecode after loading it from the DB to put it into a format that LC understands. I then use offset() to find certain tags, text, etc. to work with. However, if there are emoji in that string, the offset() function hard crashes with a out of range error.

Due to the troubles offset(), I?m looking for a way to remove the emojis before I have to use the offset function.

Short of compiling a list of emoji and the decimal equivalent, does anyone have a way to do this in LC?

My offset code has been rock solid, except for these rare instances were there are emoji in the text and I am not really looking to change it if I don?t have to, preferring to just remove the emoji if possible.

TIA,

Steve MacLean



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Sun Jan 13 15:32:18 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:32:18 -0500
Subject: XMLHttpRequest from JavaScript to LC Server
In-Reply-To: <6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
	<6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <003601d4ab7f$16cfcb20$446f6160$@net>

Example LC server script and Html page==>
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7r1fsip3aa2bgfv/AAAW_wNEkBu9-wNjTMah3bNOa?dl=0

I cleaned it up a bit and removed debugging code. In the end it's
deceptively simple but there was a fair amount of scratching-and-sniffing
along the way. I commented the highlights. If you have any questions just
fire away.

Here's what I have working:
1) Methods==> Get and Post.
2) Cross Domain==>CORS policy satisfied. This allows you field LC Server
requests from a different domain. You can choose what domains to accept
requests from to maintain server security.
3) Sync and Async JavaScript requests to LC Server.
4) LC Server sessions maintained.
5) Creating cookies from LC server request.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 16:28:41 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:28:41 +0200
Subject: How to remove emoji's from unicode string
In-Reply-To: <746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
	<6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
	<746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>
Message-ID: <c80e074d-e3ca-49f7-0a35-7c7a57b57057@gmail.com>

Well . . . as the emojis are stored in a Unicode range (Hex 1F600 - 1F64F)

https://www.unicode.org/charts/

I'd "just" strip out any characters inwith that range.


On 13.01.19 22:17, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> The recent conversations on using offset() with Unicode strings was very enlightening, thanks to all that took part!.
>
> I have data stored in UTF8mb4. I use textDecode after loading it from the DB to put it into a format that LC understands. I then use offset() to find certain tags, text, etc. to work with. However, if there are emoji in that string, the offset() function hard crashes with a out of range error.
>
> Due to the troubles offset(), I?m looking for a way to remove the emojis before I have to use the offset function.
>
> Short of compiling a list of emoji and the decimal equivalent, does anyone have a way to do this in LC?
>
> My offset code has been rock solid, except for these rare instances were there are emoji in the text and I am not really looking to change it if I don?t have to, preferring to just remove the emoji if possible.
>
> TIA,
>
> Steve MacLean
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 16:34:51 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:34:51 +0200
Subject: How to remove emoji's from unicode string
In-Reply-To: <746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
	<6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
	<746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>
Message-ID: <b108e71c-5e14-8c28-ae72-0cd3847cdc17@gmail.com>

Cop a look at this:

*http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32030*

On 13.01.19 22:17, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> The recent conversations on using offset() with Unicode strings was very enlightening, thanks to all that took part!.
>
> I have data stored in UTF8mb4. I use textDecode after loading it from the DB to put it into a format that LC understands. I then use offset() to find certain tags, text, etc. to work with. However, if there are emoji in that string, the offset() function hard crashes with a out of range error.
>
> Due to the troubles offset(), I?m looking for a way to remove the emojis before I have to use the offset function.
>
> Short of compiling a list of emoji and the decimal equivalent, does anyone have a way to do this in LC?
>
> My offset code has been rock solid, except for these rare instances were there are emoji in the text and I am not really looking to change it if I don?t have to, preferring to just remove the emoji if possible.
>
> TIA,
>
> Steve MacLean
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Sun Jan 13 18:51:35 2019
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:51:35 -0800
Subject: How to remove emoji's from unicode string
In-Reply-To: <b108e71c-5e14-8c28-ae72-0cd3847cdc17@gmail.com>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
	<6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
	<746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>
	<b108e71c-5e14-8c28-ae72-0cd3847cdc17@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E3921B6E-4C2C-44C7-AB7A-62EBE4D94FD4@elloco.com>

On my phone so verify this.
Shouldn?t you be using codepointoffset(),not offset()?

Kee Nethery

> On Jan 13, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Cop a look at this:
> 
> *http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32030*
> 
>> On 13.01.19 22:17, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> The recent conversations on using offset() with Unicode strings was very enlightening, thanks to all that took part!.
>> 
>> I have data stored in UTF8mb4. I use textDecode after loading it from the DB to put it into a format that LC understands. I then use offset() to find certain tags, text, etc. to work with. However, if there are emoji in that string, the offset() function hard crashes with a out of range error.
>> 
>> Due to the troubles offset(), I?m looking for a way to remove the emojis before I have to use the offset function.
>> 
>> Short of compiling a list of emoji and the decimal equivalent, does anyone have a way to do this in LC?
>> 
>> My offset code has been rock solid, except for these rare instances were there are emoji in the text and I am not really looking to change it if I don?t have to, preferring to just remove the emoji if possible.
>> 
>> TIA,
>> 
>> Steve MacLean
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sun Jan 13 19:51:00 2019
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:51:00 -0800
Subject: How to remove emoji's from unicode string
In-Reply-To: <b108e71c-5e14-8c28-ae72-0cd3847cdc17@gmail.com>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
	<6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
	<746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>
	<b108e71c-5e14-8c28-ae72-0cd3847cdc17@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84583416-AF6F-438F-B43A-7BFA898FC2B8@elementarysoftware.com>

Hello Richmond.I have found that emojis also cause the <open printing to pdf> command  to fail silently. Being able to strip emojis would be helpful for that as well.

I've been fooling about with your emoji stripping stack. 
Using   codePointToNum(tEmojiChar) > 128511  doesn't seem to catch all the emoji characters... 
this cat head <  ? > returns "128049"

Also some emojis now have multiple skin colors < ????????? >and that seems to throw a monkeywrench into the works, too. When I posted this to the forum I see that the second merman is followed by a <brown swatch> and then a <male sign>. However, the second merman I pasted was actually slightly browner than the first (and looked correct when it was originally pasted) but this does not seem to pass through the posting mechanism correctly. The brown swatch and male symbol seem to be incorrectly parsed away from the second merman.  The ?browner merman? is reported as 4 characters. This can even be seen by using the delete key (I?m on a Mac using LC 9.0.2) and deleting backwards over the merman. It changes color as the deleteKey removes characters which the field may or may not display. The merman doesn?t necessarily displays at the size that the field is set to. Selecting the merman and choosing ?Use Owner?s Size? from the text menu can break the emoji if the field isn?t wide enough to contain all the ?hidden characters? on the same line.

hmm? just looked for a bug report and didn?t find one exactly like this. I?m pretty ignorant about how unicode actually operates but on the assumption that it should ?just work? in LiveCode.. I guess a bug report is my next stop.

--cross posted to forums?

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth     1-800-615-0867
------------------------------------------------------


> On Jan 13, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Cop a look at this:
> 
> *http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32030*
> 
> On 13.01.19 22:17, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> The recent conversations on using offset() with Unicode strings was very enlightening, thanks to all that took part!.
>> 
>> I have data stored in UTF8mb4. I use textDecode after loading it from the DB to put it into a format that LC understands. I then use offset() to find certain tags, text, etc. to work with. However, if there are emoji in that string, the offset() function hard crashes with a out of range error.
>> 
>> Due to the troubles offset(), I?m looking for a way to remove the emojis before I have to use the offset function.
>> 
>> Short of compiling a list of emoji and the decimal equivalent, does anyone have a way to do this in LC?
>> 
>> My offset code has been rock solid, except for these rare instances were there are emoji in the text and I am not really looking to change it if I don?t have to, preferring to just remove the emoji if possible.
>> 
>> TIA,
>> 
>> Steve MacLean
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Sun Jan 13 20:40:45 2019
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 20:40:45 -0500
Subject: How to remove emoji's from unicode string
In-Reply-To: <b108e71c-5e14-8c28-ae72-0cd3847cdc17@gmail.com>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
	<6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
	<746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>
	<b108e71c-5e14-8c28-ae72-0cd3847cdc17@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B0212980-87FC-4317-97DC-0D10B17B2DE1@madmansoft.com>

Hi Richmond,

Thanks for posting this!

There are multiple ranges for emojis, as more were added in each version on Unicode.

Here is the list for the latest version of unicode 12.0

https://www.unicode.org/Public/emoji/12 ... i-data.txt <https://www.unicode.org/Public/emoji/12.0/emoji-data.txt>

I think that between your stripper and updated unicode map, it should be able to find and strip them all?


From my Forum reply.

> On Jan 13, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Cop a look at this:
> 
> *http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32030*
> 
> On 13.01.19 22:17, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> The recent conversations on using offset() with Unicode strings was very enlightening, thanks to all that took part!.
>> 
>> I have data stored in UTF8mb4. I use textDecode after loading it from the DB to put it into a format that LC understands. I then use offset() to find certain tags, text, etc. to work with. However, if there are emoji in that string, the offset() function hard crashes with a out of range error.
>> 
>> Due to the troubles offset(), I?m looking for a way to remove the emojis before I have to use the offset function.
>> 
>> Short of compiling a list of emoji and the decimal equivalent, does anyone have a way to do this in LC?
>> 
>> My offset code has been rock solid, except for these rare instances were there are emoji in the text and I am not really looking to change it if I don?t have to, preferring to just remove the emoji if possible.
>> 
>> TIA,
>> 
>> Steve MacLean
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Sun Jan 13 20:42:44 2019
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 20:42:44 -0500
Subject: How to remove emoji's from unicode string
In-Reply-To: <E3921B6E-4C2C-44C7-AB7A-62EBE4D94FD4@elloco.com>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<1684316fe98.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<004c01d4aace$19ca9a00$4d5fce00$@net>
	<6EF840CD-611E-4B30-939A-AFD6B0FC5BA3@m-r-d.de>
	<746E78B4-C9A9-4829-83D7-6C9F4B6681D1@madmansoft.com>
	<b108e71c-5e14-8c28-ae72-0cd3847cdc17@gmail.com>
	<E3921B6E-4C2C-44C7-AB7A-62EBE4D94FD4@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <D10737DF-09B4-4C34-A749-2A5EFE692617@madmansoft.com>

Hi Kee,

codepointOffset() doesn?t seem to work as expected, at least for me on my data, although I?m not sure why. The results are way different. I had thought it would be as simple as using that, but as per usual, nothing is!

Best,

Steve MacLean

> On Jan 13, 2019, at 6:51 PM, Kee Nethery via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On my phone so verify this.
> Shouldn?t you be using codepointoffset(),not offset()?
> 
> Kee Nethery
> 
>> On Jan 13, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Cop a look at this:
>> 
>> *http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32030*
>> 
>>> On 13.01.19 22:17, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> The recent conversations on using offset() with Unicode strings was very enlightening, thanks to all that took part!.
>>> 
>>> I have data stored in UTF8mb4. I use textDecode after loading it from the DB to put it into a format that LC understands. I then use offset() to find certain tags, text, etc. to work with. However, if there are emoji in that string, the offset() function hard crashes with a out of range error.
>>> 
>>> Due to the troubles offset(), I?m looking for a way to remove the emojis before I have to use the offset function.
>>> 
>>> Short of compiling a list of emoji and the decimal equivalent, does anyone have a way to do this in LC?
>>> 
>>> My offset code has been rock solid, except for these rare instances were there are emoji in the text and I am not really looking to change it if I don?t have to, preferring to just remove the emoji if possible.
>>> 
>>> TIA,
>>> 
>>> Steve MacLean
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Jan 14 08:22:56 2019
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 13:22:56 -0000
Subject: screensChanged ? (was Re: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness)
In-Reply-To: <4FB90A87-AB79-4611-A0B5-1AE122FCB054@iotecdigital.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB90A87-AB79-4611-A0B5-1AE122FCB054@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <19070277-512a-56ef-5795-5a7b6748863c@cogapp.com>

Related to this: is there any possibility of getting a "screensChanged" 
message? I work on multi-monitor setups all the time, and have not been 
bothered by the issue with screenRects because they've always told the truth 
relative to each other.

However, the problem is that my set-up changes multiple times a day. Mostly 
it's taking my laptop in and out of meetings, so switching from one 
multi-monitor set-up to single monitor; but sometimes I'm plugging it into a 
meeting room screen, and sometimes mirroring, and sometimes I end up with the 
three screens.

Many apps (including, to some extent, the LiveCode IDE) respond when this 
happens. But my own apps can't unless I specifically ask them to.

AFAICT there is no message stacks can get to tell them to get the screenRects 
again and take another look. Could there be a "screensChanged" or similar? (Or 
we could even overload "orientationChanged" for this purpose, although that 
would be probably be an error.)

Ben


On 11/01/2019 15:59, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> I was probably the first person to mention it. I get around it by setting the position of my stacks when opened or resumed to be within the bounds of the monitor. Actually, this will happen when switching from the single built-in display of a laptop to a dual display with the laptop closed (built-in monitor off). If the second display is a lower resolution (as it likely will be with retina displays) the OS will position open windows in the nearest spot that can display the entire window if possible.



From paul at researchware.com  Mon Jan 14 08:38:05 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 08:38:05 -0500
Subject: screensChanged ? (was Re: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness)
In-Reply-To: <19070277-512a-56ef-5795-5a7b6748863c@cogapp.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB90A87-AB79-4611-A0B5-1AE122FCB054@iotecdigital.com>
	<19070277-512a-56ef-5795-5a7b6748863c@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <538e83da-f87c-4512-d2b7-674bf9d20f61@researchware.com>

This is the 'desktopChanged' message -- see Dictionary

On 1/14/2019 8:22 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> Related to this: is there any possibility of getting a 
> "screensChanged" message? I work on multi-monitor setups all the time, 
> and have not been bothered by the issue with screenRects because 
> they've always told the truth relative to each other.
>
> However, the problem is that my set-up changes multiple times a day. 
> Mostly it's taking my laptop in and out of meetings, so switching from 
> one multi-monitor set-up to single monitor; but sometimes I'm plugging 
> it into a meeting room screen, and sometimes mirroring, and sometimes 
> I end up with the three screens.
>
> Many apps (including, to some extent, the LiveCode IDE) respond when 
> this happens. But my own apps can't unless I specifically ask them to.
>
> AFAICT there is no message stacks can get to tell them to get the 
> screenRects again and take another look. Could there be a 
> "screensChanged" or similar? (Or we could even overload 
> "orientationChanged" for this purpose, although that would be probably 
> be an error.)
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 11/01/2019 15:59, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> I was probably the first person to mention it. I get around it by 
>> setting the position of my stacks when opened or resumed to be within 
>> the bounds of the monitor. Actually, this will happen when switching 
>> from the single built-in display of a laptop to a dual display with 
>> the laptop closed (built-in monitor off). If the second display is a 
>> lower resolution (as it likely will be with retina displays) the OS 
>> will position open windows in the nearest spot that can display the 
>> entire window if possible.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon Jan 14 09:45:58 2019
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:45:58 +0200
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 163
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8czyg5XX0jTaUkOhbEnjd-6AoQLbnYUN7=bJHVuKUR3g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #163 here: https://goo.gl/wUv84j

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.



-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 14 10:58:26 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:58:26 +0000
Subject: Repeat for each line of a variable or field?
In-Reply-To: <98AE54CA-3DF0-4FD8-8F25-5DFBFBB7517D@pacifier.com>
References: <ED3424E4-7B77-4A80-83A1-6EE3260899EA@comcast.net>
	<98AE54CA-3DF0-4FD8-8F25-5DFBFBB7517D@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <83547227-2BC0-40E6-A573-D50A20446713@iotecdigital.com>

Also if you do not lock the screen the engine has to update the display each time a line changes. Not sure if this is the case if the line is not visible...

Bob S


> On Jan 12, 2019, at 08:37 , JB via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> It is faster to use version 1 because accessing the
> lines in a variable is faster than accessing lines in
> a field.
> 
> JB
> 
> 
>> On Jan 12, 2019, at 8:01 AM, David Epstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I've done a little bit of speed testing showing extremely slight differences, but wonder if anyone who understands the "engine" can advise on this:
>> 
>> Is there a difference between these two approaches?
>> 
>> (1) put fld 1 into txt; repeat for each line k in txt; etc.
>> 
>> and
>> (2) repeat for each line k in fld 1; etc.
>> 
>> For no very good reason, I tend to do (1), but have begun to wonder:  for a very lengthy field 1, does my writing to a variable use up more RAM, and so perhaps injure performance?  Or is the engine in effect writing to a variable either way?  Is a variable read more quickly than a field?  
>> 
>> Many thanks.
>> David Epstein
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 13:44:44 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 20:44:44 +0200
Subject: Crunchy chestnuts again, again, again
Message-ID: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>

Indeed: Please signal your opinion:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31971

Richmond.



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Jan 14 16:09:27 2019
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 21:09:27 -0000
Subject: screensChanged ? (was Re: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness)
In-Reply-To: <538e83da-f87c-4512-d2b7-674bf9d20f61@researchware.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB90A87-AB79-4611-A0B5-1AE122FCB054@iotecdigital.com>
	<19070277-512a-56ef-5795-5a7b6748863c@cogapp.com>
	<538e83da-f87c-4512-d2b7-674bf9d20f61@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <60c3a2f5-6c95-7386-c2c7-4ed30c9f3d34@cogapp.com>

Aha! Thanks Paul, that's just what I needed. I looked through all the 
'changed' messages in the dictionary but didn't spot that one.

Ben

On 14/01/2019 13:38, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> This is the 'desktopChanged' message -- see Dictionary
> 
> On 1/14/2019 8:22 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>> Related to this: is there any possibility of getting a "screensChanged" 
>> message? I work on multi-monitor setups all the time, and have not been 
>> bothered by the issue with screenRects because they've always told the truth 
>> relative to each other.
>>
>> However, the problem is that my set-up changes multiple times a day. Mostly 
>> it's taking my laptop in and out of meetings, so switching from one 
>> multi-monitor set-up to single monitor; but sometimes I'm plugging it into a 
>> meeting room screen, and sometimes mirroring, and sometimes I end up with 
>> the three screens.
>>
>> Many apps (including, to some extent, the LiveCode IDE) respond when this 
>> happens. But my own apps can't unless I specifically ask them to.
>>
>> AFAICT there is no message stacks can get to tell them to get the 
>> screenRects again and take another look. Could there be a "screensChanged" 
>> or similar? (Or we could even overload "orientationChanged" for this 
>> purpose, although that would be probably be an error.)
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> On 11/01/2019 15:59, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I was probably the first person to mention it. I get around it by setting 
>>> the position of my stacks when opened or resumed to be within the bounds of 
>>> the monitor. Actually, this will happen when switching from the single 
>>> built-in display of a laptop to a dual display with the laptop closed 
>>> (built-in monitor off). If the second display is a lower resolution (as it 
>>> likely will be with retina displays) the OS will position open windows in 
>>> the nearest spot that can display the entire window if possible.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 



From paul at researchware.com  Mon Jan 14 17:25:28 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:25:28 -0500
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <5DF699CD-847B-4062-8C5E-71C9641110E9@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
	<5fab4e8c-8812-42d6-8ef4-c87586a81119@Spark>
	<5DF699CD-847B-4062-8C5E-71C9641110E9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <deb3f981-0dd6-8c14-e580-4c2fdb938fdc@researchware.com>

On 1/10/2019 11:02 PM, Knapp Martin via use-livecode wrote:
> OK, I?m making progress here. But I?m finding that ask and answer dialogs are opening off-screen. How are their positions determined?
>
> Marty
>

See https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4309

A very old enhancement request that would be a nice addition. SuperCard 
has a 'at' syntax, so you could say:

Ask "What color is your favorite?" at screenLoc()

Now you have to do something like

set the loc of stack "Ask Dialog" to screenLoc()
ask "What color is you favorite?"

The actual stack names are "Ask Dialog" and "Answer Dialog" whether 
invoked from the IDE or a Standalone.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 14 18:41:27 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 23:41:27 +0000
Subject: Crunchy chestnuts again, again, again
In-Reply-To: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
References: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7D87648-EF1A-4EDA-91AC-4E1B97125C6B@iotecdigital.com>

I don't use that forum so I cannot. 

Bob S


> On Jan 14, 2019, at 10:44 , Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Indeed: Please signal your opinion:
> 
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31971
> 
> Richmond.




From martyknappster at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 19:58:30 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:58:30 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <deb3f981-0dd6-8c14-e580-4c2fdb938fdc@researchware.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
	<5fab4e8c-8812-42d6-8ef4-c87586a81119@Spark>
	<5DF699CD-847B-4062-8C5E-71C9641110E9@gmail.com>
	<deb3f981-0dd6-8c14-e580-4c2fdb938fdc@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <3A99B4E0-AE8F-4865-A61B-B819B6666D01@gmail.com>

> set the loc of stack "Ask Dialog" to screenLoc()
> ask "What color is you favorite??

Does that work for you Paul - it doesn?t for me. I?m having to do this:

send CenterAnswerOnScreen to me in 1 tick
answer ?Blah blah blah?

on CenterAnswerOnScreen
   set the loc of stack "answer dialog" to the screenLoc
end CenterAnswerOnScreen

I have a couple of customers with small-screened laptops who use large secondary monitors aligned at the bottom. Thus the top of the secondary monitor is quite a bit above the main laptop monitor. Ask and Answer dialogs are so far off you can only see about the bottom 1/8 of an inch of the window and are thus unusable.

Marty

> On Jan 14, 2019, at 2:25 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 1/10/2019 11:02 PM, Knapp Martin via use-livecode wrote:
>> OK, I?m making progress here. But I?m finding that ask and answer dialogs are opening off-screen. How are their positions determined?
>> 
>> Marty
>> 
> 
> See https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4309
> 
> A very old enhancement request that would be a nice addition. SuperCard has a 'at' syntax, so you could say:
> 
> Ask "What color is your favorite?" at screenLoc()
> 
> Now you have to do something like
> 
> set the loc of stack "Ask Dialog" to screenLoc()
> ask "What color is you favorite?"
> 
> The actual stack names are "Ask Dialog" and "Answer Dialog" whether invoked from the IDE or a Standalone.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From monte at appisle.net  Mon Jan 14 22:00:03 2019
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:00:03 +1100
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <3A99B4E0-AE8F-4865-A61B-B819B6666D01@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
	<5fab4e8c-8812-42d6-8ef4-c87586a81119@Spark>
	<5DF699CD-847B-4062-8C5E-71C9641110E9@gmail.com>
	<deb3f981-0dd6-8c14-e580-4c2fdb938fdc@researchware.com>
	<3A99B4E0-AE8F-4865-A61B-B819B6666D01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <129C6B71-093B-4F5E-9CF7-80C181030AD1@appisle.net>

Hi Marty

I?m just wondering if you are using the standard IDE ask and answer dialog or a custom one? If you are working on a very old stack then MetaCard used to copy the ask and answer dialog into the stackFile as a substack. You should be able to see them in the project browser under your mainstack. If that?s the case then perhaps try deleting those.

Cheers

Monte

> On 15 Jan 2019, at 11:58 am, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Does that work for you Paul - it doesn?t for me. I?m having to do this:
> 
> send CenterAnswerOnScreen to me in 1 tick
> answer ?Blah blah blah?
> 
> on CenterAnswerOnScreen
>   set the loc of stack "answer dialog" to the screenLoc
> end CenterAnswerOnScreen
> 
> I have a couple of customers with small-screened laptops who use large secondary monitors aligned at the bottom. Thus the top of the secondary monitor is quite a bit above the main laptop monitor. Ask and Answer dialogs are so far off you can only see about the bottom 1/8 of an inch of the window and are thus unusable.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 01:09:33 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 08:09:33 +0200
Subject: Crunchy chestnuts again, again, again
In-Reply-To: <A7D87648-EF1A-4EDA-91AC-4E1B97125C6B@iotecdigital.com>
References: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
	<A7D87648-EF1A-4EDA-91AC-4E1B97125C6B@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwth-fi5f7G0ETt+u2X-HwHDM94xF0V2qgNSMkeKQKFMT9g@mail.gmail.com>

What is your "objection" to the forum?

I find it better than the Use-List as one can attach stuff.

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 1:41 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I don't use that forum so I cannot.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 2019, at 10:44 , Richmond via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Indeed: Please signal your opinion:
> >
> > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31971
> >
> > Richmond.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 04:59:44 2019
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 10:59:44 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>

Failed saving onWindows 10 (all latest versions of LiveCode)

I am talking about a compiled business related stack (small compiled
splash, main stack not compiled in a resource folder and various resources)
that goes to clients.

Some of my clients experience that the main stack is not saving and will
leave two files in a state that does not allow to reopen them again. One of
the files is renamed with a tilde character "~" at the end of the filename.
This is the file "in progress" to be saved from file A to B and when the
saving was successful, the old file is removed.

The saving process takes very long (from 15 seconds and more). Sometimes
over 30 seconds -- with or without this problem.

If I ask the client to remove the tilde "~" then the stack can be reopened.
Otherwise not. Of course, I can not ask clients to do this in a production
environment or ask him to delete the installation and always install again.

Somewhere during the saving process, something happens that stops the
process and ends with a failure.

There are no error messages. I can not replicate the behaviour on my own
computer. But I can see it on client's machines (not just one).

I am wondering if this could also be something that occurs because of
interference of Windows Defender or some AV? Did anybody ever experience
something similar on Windows?

Kind regards and thanks for replies
Roland


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Jan 15 06:54:32 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 12:54:32 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B2B0015-CCCB-4E77-B673-88E6AEA6959B@m-r-d.de>

I cannot see this behaviour here and on our clients computers.
Our standalones with substacks are running on several Win10 machines. All theses standalones use
 preferences stacks, which are saved from within the standalones. The standalones were created with LC 9.0.1 Business.

We are delivering those standalones without an installer, so they are not placed in the Program Files folder. They are either placed in the documents, sometimes in a dropbox folder and some customers have placed them on drive D,E,F...., but not on the system drive.

Are your standalones delivered with a installer and do they reside in Program Files folder? If so, did you take care, that it is not allowed to write into the Program Files folder?

To check, if your AV software is the culprit, i would try, if possible, to exclude your standalone and its other files from AV realtime scanning. Maybe one of your clients is willing to try.

Our clients all use F-Secure Client Security as AV/Firewall on Windows and we never run into any problem with our apps.


Matthias


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
> Am 15.01.2019 um 10:59 schrieb R.H. via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Failed saving onWindows 10 (all latest versions of LiveCode)
> 
> I am talking about a compiled business related stack (small compiled
> splash, main stack not compiled in a resource folder and various resources)
> that goes to clients.
> 
> Some of my clients experience that the main stack is not saving and will
> leave two files in a state that does not allow to reopen them again. One of
> the files is renamed with a tilde character "~" at the end of the filename.
> This is the file "in progress" to be saved from file A to B and when the
> saving was successful, the old file is removed.
> 
> The saving process takes very long (from 15 seconds and more). Sometimes
> over 30 seconds -- with or without this problem.
> 
> If I ask the client to remove the tilde "~" then the stack can be reopened.
> Otherwise not. Of course, I can not ask clients to do this in a production
> environment or ask him to delete the installation and always install again.
> 
> Somewhere during the saving process, something happens that stops the
> process and ends with a failure.
> 
> There are no error messages. I can not replicate the behaviour on my own
> computer. But I can see it on client's machines (not just one).
> 
> I am wondering if this could also be something that occurs because of
> interference of Windows Defender or some AV? Did anybody ever experience
> something similar on Windows?
> 
> Kind regards and thanks for replies
> Roland
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Jan 15 07:12:44 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 07:12:44 -0500
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <3A99B4E0-AE8F-4865-A61B-B819B6666D01@gmail.com>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
	<5fab4e8c-8812-42d6-8ef4-c87586a81119@Spark>
	<5DF699CD-847B-4062-8C5E-71C9641110E9@gmail.com>
	<deb3f981-0dd6-8c14-e580-4c2fdb938fdc@researchware.com>
	<3A99B4E0-AE8F-4865-A61B-B819B6666D01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3317ca0b-b131-8af2-9407-77e1574fd348@researchware.com>

On 1/14/2019 7:58 PM, Knapp Martin via use-livecode wrote:
>> set the loc of stack "Ask Dialog" to screenLoc()
>> ask "What color is you favorite??
> Does that work for you Paul - it doesn?t for me. I?m having to do this:
>
> send CenterAnswerOnScreen to me in 1 tick
> answer ?Blah blah blah?
>
> on CenterAnswerOnScreen
>     set the loc of stack "answer dialog" to the screenLoc
> end CenterAnswerOnScreen
>
> I have a couple of customers with small-screened laptops who use large secondary monitors aligned at the bottom. Thus the top of the secondary monitor is quite a bit above the main laptop monitor. Ask and Answer dialogs are so far off you can only see about the bottom 1/8 of an inch of the window and are thus unusable.
>
> Marty
>
>

Yes, it has been working for us. It works in LC9.0.2 with a new stack 
and a button with those 2 lines in a mouseUp handler.

I think this may only work under Desktop OSes as the Inclusions (in 
Standalone settings) show the standard Ask and Answer Dialogs available 
only for Linux, OSX, and WIndows.

Also, per prior discussion in this thread, code like:

set the loc of stack "Ask Dialog" to effectiveScreenLocOfScreen(the 
sceeen of this stack)
ask "What color?"

where

function effectiveScreenLocOfScreen pScreen
   -- pScreen is a monitor number (a line of the screenRects or the value of the screen of stack property
   --
   local tRect,tH,tV
   put line pScreen of the effective screenRects into tRect -- or use 'effective working screenRects' for accommodating pop up keyboards and such
   put ((item 3 of tRect - item 1 of tRect)/2) into tH
   put ((item 4 of tRect - item 2 of tRect)/2) into tV
   return (tH,tV)
end effectiveScreenLocOfScreen

should result in centering an Ask Dialog on the monitor that the stack that invokes it is on.




From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Jan 15 07:52:09 2019
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 13:52:09 +0100
Subject: Fun with answer and files()
Message-ID: <0C24BE83-657A-46BC-9BF5-12DC16173F7A@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

yesterday I wanted to save a line of script and wrote:
...
put specialfolderpath("desktop") into tFolder
answer files(tFolder)
...
Instead of:
...
put specialfolderpath("desktop") into tFolder
put files(tFolder) into tFiles
answer tFiles
...

Before you try, think about what you would exspect and then try it!

At least I was heavily suprised when I did NOT see all files from my 
desktop listed in an answer dialog! :-)

Hint: 
Using brackets fixed it.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Jan 15 08:02:05 2019
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:02:05 +0100
Subject: Fun with answer and files()
In-Reply-To: <0C24BE83-657A-46BC-9BF5-12DC16173F7A@major-k.de>
References: <0C24BE83-657A-46BC-9BF5-12DC16173F7A@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <C48D4341-8C37-47EA-A9AF-FC0F41CA82FB@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> Am 15.01.2019 um 13:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> yesterday I wanted to save a line of script and wrote:
> ...
> put specialfolderpath("desktop") into tFolder
> answer files(tFolder)
> ...
> Instead of:
> ...
> put specialfolderpath("desktop") into tFolder
> put files(tFolder) into tFiles
> answer tFiles
> ...
> 
> Before you try, think about what you would exspect and then try it!
> 
> At least I was heavily suprised when I did NOT see all files from my 
> desktop listed in an answer dialog! :-)
> 
> Hint: 
> Using brackets fixed it.

before you start a lengthy reply, I understand what is going on here, 
just wanted to share my AHA-experience. :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From paul at researchware.com  Tue Jan 15 09:15:06 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 09:15:06 -0500
Subject: Fun with answer and files()
In-Reply-To: <C48D4341-8C37-47EA-A9AF-FC0F41CA82FB@major-k.de>
References: <0C24BE83-657A-46BC-9BF5-12DC16173F7A@major-k.de>
	<C48D4341-8C37-47EA-A9AF-FC0F41CA82FB@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <69b74437-0144-512b-67a9-8fb179000b05@researchware.com>

On 1/15/2019 8:02 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> put specialfolderpath("desktop") into tFolder
> answer files(tFolder)

I would say this is a parser bug and should probably be reported

the fact that 'answer files(..." gets parsed as the command 'answer 
files <prompt> ..." is poor syntax parsing.

If you had a space between 'files' and the open paren, I can understand 
the issue, but any symbol connected immediately to a right paren should 
be evaluated as a function.



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Jan 15 09:16:18 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 09:16:18 -0500
Subject: Fun with answer and files()
In-Reply-To: <C48D4341-8C37-47EA-A9AF-FC0F41CA82FB@major-k.de>
References: <0C24BE83-657A-46BC-9BF5-12DC16173F7A@major-k.de>
	<C48D4341-8C37-47EA-A9AF-FC0F41CA82FB@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <4a464da8-7c79-e9b1-075c-d65a4edc338e@researchware.com>

On 1/15/2019 8:02 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> put specialfolderpath("desktop") into tFolder
> answer files(tFolder)

By the way, a really really good find!




From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Jan 15 09:41:57 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:41:57 +0000
Subject: Getting Browser Widget to Read Local Assets
In-Reply-To: <DAB22FE5-ECC2-4ADB-A9D6-F50529FBD807@hyperhh.de>
References: <DAB22FE5-ECC2-4ADB-A9D6-F50529FBD807@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <E726033E-1E98-4AF1-B6DF-18C1027A9E36@hindu.org>

HH wrote:

    You could also do step 1 to 4 once and put compress(fld "HTML")
    into a <stack property>, then set later on in btn "LoadURL" the
    htmltext to decompress(<stack property>).

BR: Thanks for your attentive in response to my query. I am keeping you posts in a folder entitled "Browser Widget Manual" 

I tried this but it did not work, I think I missing a piece of the puzzle 

====
on mouseup
   put the uAlphabetA of this stack  into imageVariable
   put the uAlphabetA of this stack  into img "alphabet"  
       # just checking it?s artist's versions an "A" at 122px H,122px W
   put base64Encode(imageVariable) into b64Data
   replace linefeed with empty in b64Data
   set the htmltext of  widget "browser" to the fld "html"
end mouseup

This image there. It appears into stack and also in the variables....

we have in the html

[snip] background-image: url('data:image/jpg;base64,<b64Data>') [snip]

??

---------------

It this coding to a "stack local " to base64 only required if you want to use it as a background image? What about a 

<img src="assets/img/some.jpg" />

A couple of months ago I imported an entire HTML5 app folder done in React, to a local folder, let's call it 

/workout
      Index.html
            assets
  workout.livecode # with a browser widget

 it showed images in its asset folder.

But today I cannot getting img src working with 

/MyTest
    browserTesting.livecode
         /alphabet
                A_122x122_thm.jpg
   
<body class="bodyStyle">
<div class="textNotice"> 
<img src="alphabet/A_122x122_thm.jpg" /> 
        # the above appears as an image, but with a ? mark in it.
<h2> Loading.<br /> Please wait...</h2>
<h3>If the web site is slow or if you have a bad connection - cancel by going <i>Home</i></h3>
</div>
<div class="loader">
</div>
</body>

BR





From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Tue Jan 15 09:46:00 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:46:00 +0000
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
References: <FBB75772-65BE-40F2-8A68-E3ED40BF61B2@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <059597F3-3FEE-4A8D-8B83-776EB8C97D8E@sosgeo.uio.no>

Dear all of you, - Richard, Richmond and the rest of the users of this list -
as you may have seen I have tried to get an idea (an offer!) of what it may cost - what one would have to pay - for an app or some other solution to the problem of making "HC easily portable to LC and thereby accessible ?to the rest of us" again??. Not having got any answer I give it one more try. 
Regards - Ingar


> 3. des. 2018 kl. 02.55 skrev Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Ingar Roggen:
> 
> > ...why not elaborate it to the tool, the app needed to make HC easily
> > portable to LC and thereby accessible "to the rest of us" again?
> > Anybody takes the challenge?
> 
> One could make HC's interface in LC. Anyone game?
> 
> I once thought about doing it myself...
> http://livecodejournal.com/features/the-true-power-of-hypercard.html
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Jan 15 09:49:45 2019
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 15:49:45 +0100
Subject: Fun with answer and files()
In-Reply-To: <69b74437-0144-512b-67a9-8fb179000b05@researchware.com>
References: <0C24BE83-657A-46BC-9BF5-12DC16173F7A@major-k.de>
	<C48D4341-8C37-47EA-A9AF-FC0F41CA82FB@major-k.de>
	<69b74437-0144-512b-67a9-8fb179000b05@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <FDC13B79-10E7-455C-8C6C-4B6D9A6B64A6@major-k.de>

Hi Paul,

> Am 15.01.2019 um 15:15 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> On 1/15/2019 8:02 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> put specialfolderpath("desktop") into tFolder
>> answer files(tFolder)
> I would say this is a parser bug and should probably be reported

thanks for the advice, done:
<https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21795>

> the fact that 'answer files(..." gets parsed as the command 'answer files <prompt> ..." is poor syntax parsing.
> 
> If you had a space between 'files' and the open paren, I can understand the issue, but any symbol connected immediately to a right paren should be evaluated as a function.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From merakosp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 10:18:29 2019
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 17:18:29 +0200
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <059597F3-3FEE-4A8D-8B83-776EB8C97D8E@sosgeo.uio.no>
References: <FBB75772-65BE-40F2-8A68-E3ED40BF61B2@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
	<059597F3-3FEE-4A8D-8B83-776EB8C97D8E@sosgeo.uio.no>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8n_RjPrmqGM_n_jTpJ5U++diziLy_qAmLBbPFTQ4VaeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

In LC 6.7.11 it is possible to open a HC stack. This feature has broken in
LC 7+. So you can try to:

1. Make a copy of your HC stack
2. Open it in LC 6.7.11
3. Then save it in LC 6.7.11.

Hopefully, after step 3, you should be able to open it in LC 9.

Best,
Panos--

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 4:46 PM Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear all of you, - Richard, Richmond and the rest of the users of this
> list -
> as you may have seen I have tried to get an idea (an offer!) of what it
> may cost - what one would have to pay - for an app or some other solution
> to the problem of making "HC easily portable to LC and thereby accessible
> ?to the rest of us" again??. Not having got any answer I give it one more
> try.
> Regards - Ingar
>
>
> > 3. des. 2018 kl. 02.55 skrev Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Ingar Roggen:
> >
> > > ...why not elaborate it to the tool, the app needed to make HC easily
> > > portable to LC and thereby accessible "to the rest of us" again?
> > > Anybody takes the challenge?
> >
> > One could make HC's interface in LC. Anyone game?
> >
> > I once thought about doing it myself...
> > http://livecodejournal.com/features/the-true-power-of-hypercard.html
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World Systems
> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 15 10:50:45 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 15:50:45 +0000
Subject: Crunchy chestnuts again, again, again
In-Reply-To: <CAL3fwth-fi5f7G0ETt+u2X-HwHDM94xF0V2qgNSMkeKQKFMT9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
	<A7D87648-EF1A-4EDA-91AC-4E1B97125C6B@iotecdigital.com>
	<CAL3fwth-fi5f7G0ETt+u2X-HwHDM94xF0V2qgNSMkeKQKFMT9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7A6E8735-EB14-4202-93F4-C2ECE27D39DE@iotecdigital.com>

No objection really, I just don't want yet one more web page to bookmark and login to keep track of. 

Bob S


> On Jan 14, 2019, at 22:09 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> What is your "objection" to the forum?
> 
> I find it better than the Use-List as one can attach stuff.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 15 10:54:17 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 15:54:17 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>

Yes, with Windows 10, there is a feature called Sandboxing, where even if your logged in user has write permissions to where the stack is saving, you will still  not be able to write there. Program Files is a great example. The solution is not to save stacks. Stacks should not be the place you save information. Think of them as more like web forms. 

I learned this the hard way. Instead you should save settings and such in a "safe" location, either in a database or else in some kind of settings file. I have a whole system for this. I arrayEncode an array I use runtime for my settings and save it to disk each time a setting changes. 

Bob S


> On Jan 15, 2019, at 01:59 , R.H. via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Failed saving onWindows 10 (all latest versions of LiveCode)
> 
> I am talking about a compiled business related stack (small compiled
> splash, main stack not compiled in a resource folder and various resources)
> that goes to clients.
> 
> Some of my clients experience that the main stack is not saving and will
> leave two files in a state that does not allow to reopen them again. One of
> the files is renamed with a tilde character "~" at the end of the filename.
> This is the file "in progress" to be saved from file A to B and when the
> saving was successful, the old file is removed.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 15 11:00:32 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 16:00:32 +0000
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <059597F3-3FEE-4A8D-8B83-776EB8C97D8E@sosgeo.uio.no>
References: <FBB75772-65BE-40F2-8A68-E3ED40BF61B2@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
	<059597F3-3FEE-4A8D-8B83-776EB8C97D8E@sosgeo.uio.no>
Message-ID: <81929BA3-12BC-4E0C-A530-308B7D39FDBC@iotecdigital.com>

Yes, and I will reiterate that Hypercard was optimized to use cards as records in a database. Livecode is not. If your apps are of this nature, you will want to move the data in your cards to some other storage method, then have one card per "form" in your stack, loading the data as needed. 

It isn't difficult. open file for a low level file, then repeat with i = 1 to the number of cards of stack <yourstackname> writing the pertinent data to a tab or comma delimited file, or a database if you have gotten that far with the database API. 

Bob S


> On Jan 15, 2019, at 06:46 , Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear all of you, - Richard, Richmond and the rest of the users of this list -
> as you may have seen I have tried to get an idea (an offer!) of what it may cost - what one would have to pay - for an app or some other solution to the problem of making "HC easily portable to LC and thereby accessible ?to the rest of us" again??. Not having got any answer I give it one more try. 
> Regards - Ingar
> 
> 


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Jan 15 11:38:26 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 17:38:26 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5A48AB85-5D17-4D8F-901E-AD635E797F68@m-r-d.de>

There should be no problem to copy/write/save a stack to the folder AppData . This is the recommended place if your app needs to write data to disk. It can be access using specialfolderpath("Support") or specialfolderpath(26).

Or has this really changed in Windows 10?

Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 15.01.2019 um 16:54 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Yes, with Windows 10, there is a feature called Sandboxing, where even if your logged in user has write permissions to where the stack is saving, you will still  not be able to write there. Program Files is a great example. The solution is not to save stacks. Stacks should not be the place you save information. Think of them as more like web forms. 
> 
> I learned this the hard way. Instead you should save settings and such in a "safe" location, either in a database or else in some kind of settings file. I have a whole system for this. I arrayEncode an array I use runtime for my settings and save it to disk each time a setting changes. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 15, 2019, at 01:59 , R.H. via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Failed saving onWindows 10 (all latest versions of LiveCode)
>> 
>> I am talking about a compiled business related stack (small compiled
>> splash, main stack not compiled in a resource folder and various resources)
>> that goes to clients.
>> 
>> Some of my clients experience that the main stack is not saving and will
>> leave two files in a state that does not allow to reopen them again. One of
>> the files is renamed with a tilde character "~" at the end of the filename.
>> This is the file "in progress" to be saved from file A to B and when the
>> saving was successful, the old file is removed.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Tue Jan 15 11:51:54 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 16:51:54 +0000
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <81929BA3-12BC-4E0C-A530-308B7D39FDBC@iotecdigital.com>
References: <FBB75772-65BE-40F2-8A68-E3ED40BF61B2@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
	<059597F3-3FEE-4A8D-8B83-776EB8C97D8E@sosgeo.uio.no>
	<81929BA3-12BC-4E0C-A530-308B7D39FDBC@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <2BEFA746-8913-49BA-ADDE-9598B63EFBC1@sosgeo.uio.no>

All of you again! I?m truly thankful and give it a try!
Ingar



15. jan. 2019 kl. 17.00 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:

Yes, and I will reiterate that Hypercard was optimized to use cards as records in a database. Livecode is not. If your apps are of this nature, you will want to move the data in your cards to some other storage method, then have one card per "form" in your stack, loading the data as needed.

It isn't difficult. open file for a low level file, then repeat with i = 1 to the number of cards of stack <yourstackname> writing the pertinent data to a tab or comma delimited file, or a database if you have gotten that far with the database API.

Bob S


On Jan 15, 2019, at 06:46 , Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Dear all of you, - Richard, Richmond and the rest of the users of this list -
as you may have seen I have tried to get an idea (an offer!) of what it may cost - what one would have to pay - for an app or some other solution to the problem of making "HC easily portable to LC and thereby accessible ?to the rest of us" again??. Not having got any answer I give it one more try.
Regards - Ingar



_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Jan 15 12:32:04 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 17:32:04 +0000
Subject: Crunchy chestnuts again, again, again
In-Reply-To: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
References: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58D5509A-351D-4682-867B-BDB3434338D7@hindu.org>

How do you vote on the forum?

Brahmanathaswami
 

? Richmond 

    Indeed: Please signal your opinion:
    
    http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31971
    
    Richmond.
    
    


From jjs at krutt.org  Tue Jan 15 13:04:11 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:04:11 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <5A48AB85-5D17-4D8F-901E-AD635E797F68@m-r-d.de>
References: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>
	<5A48AB85-5D17-4D8F-901E-AD635E797F68@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <4fa6a417-7bf2-73f2-942b-f7574ec66bbd@krutt.org>

You could also use "home" as it works on 3 desktop platforms and iOs. 
Linux does not have a "support". and Android uses "Engine"


Op 15-1-2019 om 17:38 schreef Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode:
> There should be no problem to copy/write/save a stack to the folder AppData . This is the recommended place if your app needs to write data to disk. It can be access using specialfolderpath("Support") or specialfolderpath(26).
>
> Or has this really changed in Windows 10?
>
> Matthias Rebbe
>
> free tools for Livecoders:
> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
>
>> Am 15.01.2019 um 16:54 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>
>> Yes, with Windows 10, there is a feature called Sandboxing, where even if your logged in user has write permissions to where the stack is saving, you will still  not be able to write there. Program Files is a great example. The solution is not to save stacks. Stacks should not be the place you save information. Think of them as more like web forms.
>>
>> I learned this the hard way. Instead you should save settings and such in a "safe" location, either in a database or else in some kind of settings file. I have a whole system for this. I arrayEncode an array I use runtime for my settings and save it to disk each time a setting changes.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 15, 2019, at 01:59 , R.H. via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Failed saving onWindows 10 (all latest versions of LiveCode)
>>>
>>> I am talking about a compiled business related stack (small compiled
>>> splash, main stack not compiled in a resource folder and various resources)
>>> that goes to clients.
>>>
>>> Some of my clients experience that the main stack is not saving and will
>>> leave two files in a state that does not allow to reopen them again. One of
>>> the files is renamed with a tilde character "~" at the end of the filename.
>>> This is the file "in progress" to be saved from file A to B and when the
>>> saving was successful, the old file is removed.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From martyknappster at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 13:05:42 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 10:05:42 -0800
Subject: screenRect and screenLoc weirdness
In-Reply-To: <129C6B71-093B-4F5E-9CF7-80C181030AD1@appisle.net>
References: <1954E03E-3BCE-4E49-B518-E804D44F4EBF@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLK_AoBK_6jd+zxSh40f8q-e0A08+vHy_wQapNvgBCe0SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D47B23AA-D7F6-46DA-AB00-AB40D483BCA0@gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLKT0=xW0u9yq7-Bv9+97qTM_z-wh_Y3zgtYUoccNsAwhg@mail.gmail.com>
	<569E99CB-63C0-41CA-B2C3-AE2177446A2E@appisle.net>
	<F9285E09-B0B2-47AA-BA31-7479F6B0845D@gmail.com>
	<F2C32825-E3D5-4D27-9642-95B41E72AB77@appisle.net>
	<1DB3AC55-F4EA-4847-B028-9BCCAD3067F6@gmail.com>
	<37534465-B029-42A1-A964-2B3D7C57D218@appisle.net>
	<2376C8EE-10BE-4079-9164-6AB613F7575C@gmail.com>
	<814d2c16-4976-44a6-851a-d9b9ab5e7e93@Spark>
	<B388A826-CCC6-489A-80E7-48C957087AEB@livecode.org>
	<5fab4e8c-8812-42d6-8ef4-c87586a81119@Spark>
	<5DF699CD-847B-4062-8C5E-71C9641110E9@gmail.com>
	<deb3f981-0dd6-8c14-e580-4c2fdb938fdc@researchware.com>
	<3A99B4E0-AE8F-4865-A61B-B819B6666D01@gmail.com>
	<129C6B71-093B-4F5E-9CF7-80C181030AD1@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <4AC80111-9BF0-43D3-A4BB-1C398800556E@gmail.com>

Hi Monte,
This happens for me in a fresh instance in the IDE (LC 9.0.2 on Mac). Again, I have a 2nd larger monitor with the bottoms aligned, placing the top of the 2nd monitor higher than the main monitor. Then just type into the message box "Answer hello" and the dialog positions itself almost completely off screen.

I just had another customer contact me this morning complaining of the same issue. He's a laptop user with a 2nd large display aligned at the bottom, placing the top higher than the main monitor. When I had him align the tops it behaves fine.

Screenshots of my test:
http://martyknapp.on-rev.com/answer.html

Marty

> On Jan 14, 2019, at 7:00 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Marty
> 
> I?m just wondering if you are using the standard IDE ask and answer dialog or a custom one? If you are working on a very old stack then MetaCard used to copy the ask and answer dialog into the stackFile as a substack. You should be able to see them in the project browser under your mainstack. If that?s the case then perhaps try deleting those.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
>> On 15 Jan 2019, at 11:58 am, Knapp Martin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Does that work for you Paul - it doesn?t for me. I?m having to do this:
>> 
>> send CenterAnswerOnScreen to me in 1 tick
>> answer ?Blah blah blah?
>> 
>> on CenterAnswerOnScreen
>>  set the loc of stack "answer dialog" to the screenLoc
>> end CenterAnswerOnScreen
>> 
>> I have a couple of customers with small-screened laptops who use large secondary monitors aligned at the bottom. Thus the top of the secondary monitor is quite a bit above the main laptop monitor. Ask and Answer dialogs are so far off you can only see about the bottom 1/8 of an inch of the window and are thus unusable.




From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Jan 15 13:28:42 2019
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 18:28:42 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7acdf5fb-b2e1-789c-dc33-78369b11f0ef@tweedly.net>

I would consider putting a check in the splash stack for the existence 
of the 'tilde' file, and removing/renaming it before opening the mainstack.

An ugly workaround until a proper fix happens - but maybe worth thinking 
about ?

Alex.

On 15/01/2019 09:59, R.H. via use-livecode wrote:
> Failed saving onWindows 10 (all latest versions of LiveCode)
>
> I am talking about a compiled business related stack (small compiled
> splash, main stack not compiled in a resource folder and various resources)
> that goes to clients.
>
> Some of my clients experience that the main stack is not saving and will
> leave two files in a state that does not allow to reopen them again. One of
> the files is renamed with a tilde character "~" at the end of the filename.
> This is the file "in progress" to be saved from file A to B and when the
> saving was successful, the old file is removed.
>
> The saving process takes very long (from 15 seconds and more). Sometimes
> over 30 seconds -- with or without this problem.
>
> If I ask the client to remove the tilde "~" then the stack can be reopened.
> Otherwise not. Of course, I can not ask clients to do this in a production
> environment or ask him to delete the installation and always install again.
>
> Somewhere during the saving process, something happens that stops the
> process and ends with a failure.
>
> There are no error messages. I can not replicate the behaviour on my own
> computer. But I can see it on client's machines (not just one).
>
> I am wondering if this could also be something that occurs because of
> interference of Windows Defender or some AV? Did anybody ever experience
> something similar on Windows?
>
> Kind regards and thanks for replies
> Roland
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Jan 15 14:01:02 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:01:02 +0000
Subject: Navigator 7.1rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtq0tZb69o5b=dWG_HX02fCVpQRwNhWo_ReUmXfRsXGAvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtq0tZb69o5b=dWG_HX02fCVpQRwNhWo_ReUmXfRsXGAvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC250D33-C80B-4B23-B6A6-01842741CCEB@hindu.org>

Kudo from making group layering consistent/doable!

?
=====
 CUSTOM LIST STRINGS EDITOR
This update adds an editor for custom list strings.
======

"Custom list strings" 

what is it?

A "custom property which is a string" ?

If so, that huge, the IDE, Project Inspector give us a custom property value editor field with just 4 line...'s and no re-sizing option.

Sheesh, do you want to  edit a long list cities name, or a big JSON property with only 4 lines

BR

==
Geoff Canyon 

    As usual, you can get Navigator here
    <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab it
    from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.
    
    


From hh at hyperhh.de  Tue Jan 15 14:06:36 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 20:06:36 +0100
Subject: Getting Browser Widget to Read Local Assets
Message-ID: <DB23B944-BA61-482B-9412-69B9C8961E9A@hyperhh.de>

BR,

assuming you don't have a local server running:

It is an essential difference whether you set the htmltext or
set the URL of the widget.

If the image is called in the htmltext then there is no way but
using a dataURL (=inline image), no matter if it is an img tag or
called in the style tag. But that works always.

If you save the same htmltext to a html file then the image from
a local path that is *relative* to that file is loaded.

There are very few cases where *absolute* file:// - syntax works
and there will be increasing less cases.

If the image becomes "tinted" (by acting on it's data), then you
will need a local server running that calls that html file.

If you use a video file instead of an image (or a webcam) then
you will need a https - connection to your local server. This is
very hard to install except you use a solution like the commercial
MAMP Pro (assuming you are on Mac).

Also look at the following:

> BR wrote:
> on mouseup
>    put the uAlphabetA of this stack  into imageVariable
>    put the uAlphabetA of this stack  into img "alphabet"
>        # just checking it?s artist's versions an "A" at 122px H,122px W
>    put base64Encode(imageVariable) into b64Data
>    replace linefeed with empty in b64Data
>    set the htmltext of  widget "browser" to the fld "html" #--> **
> end mouseup
> 
> This image there. It appears into stack and also in the variables....
> we have in the html
> [snip] background-image: url('data:image/jpg;base64,<b64Data>') [snip]

You have to fill the placeholder <b64Data>, for instance this way:
...(replace line ** in mouseUp):
set the htmltext of  widget "browser" to merge(fld "html")
...
and then in the html:
background-image: url('data:image/jpg;base64,[[b64Data]]')


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan 15 14:16:50 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 11:16:50 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>
References: <BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <4ef611fd-919c-a5a9-3784-73687af03a01@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > Yes, with Windows 10, there is a feature called Sandboxing, where even
 > if your logged in user has write permissions to where the stack is
 > saving, you will still  not be able to write there. Program Files is a
 > great example. The solution is not to save stacks. Stacks should not
 > be the place you save information.

LiveCode stack files are a format; the file path is the location.

While it's often useful to separate UI from code, sometimes stack files 
make a really good storage format.

Windows does not care about the internal format of a file, only where 
it's saved.

Wherever you can store any binary file, you should be able to store 
stack files.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 14:16:22 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 11:16:22 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.1rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CC250D33-C80B-4B23-B6A6-01842741CCEB@hindu.org>
References: <CAKCLKtq0tZb69o5b=dWG_HX02fCVpQRwNhWo_ReUmXfRsXGAvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CC250D33-C80B-4B23-B6A6-01842741CCEB@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrWDvmsm_y2Oi2OSvVnbWoVxT7fm_5bTAaW2tskDLkakw@mail.gmail.com>

Navigator edits custom properties in its standard editor, which resizes to
as big as you make Navigator -- so as big as you like, really.

But the custom list string editor is for Navigator's own custom list
display strings. Navigator has a number of built-in display options,
including the object name, name and id, and several others. But Navigator
can also take any custom string that will be accepted by LC's value()
function. Some interesting options:

the layer of tID && the name of tID
-- "tID" gets replaced with the long id of the control. This string will
result in numbering the controls displayed

the layer of tID && tIS & "<b>" & toUpper(char 1 of the name of tID) &
"</b>"&& Q(the short name of tID) && "loc:" && the loc of tID
-- "tIS" gets replaced with the indent string. This string will result in
numbering on the left, then the indent string, then a single letter in bold
representing the control type, then the name and location of the control.
Like this:

1 *B*"Cancel" loc: 681,572

2 *B*"Save" loc: 766,572

3 *G*"group id 1148" loc: 423,346

4 | *F*"edit list string" loc: 423,359

And based on a recent request, this string:

iff(word 1 of the long id of tID is "group","<b><font color=" &
Q("255,100,100") & ">","") & the name of tID && "-" && the id of tID &
iff(word 1 of the long id of tID is "group","</font></b>","")

-- iff() is a function included in Navigator that performs and "if"
statement in a function: if the first argument is true, then it results in
the second argument. If not, it results in the third argument. So this list
string results in groups being bold and salmon-colored, like this:

button "Cancel" - 1150

button "Save" - 1135

*group id 1148 - 1148*

| field "edit list string" - 1133

regards,

Geoff

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 11:01 AM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Kudo from making group layering consistent/doable!
>
> ?
> =====
>  CUSTOM LIST STRINGS EDITOR
> This update adds an editor for custom list strings.
> ======
>
> "Custom list strings"
>
> what is it?
>
> A "custom property which is a string" ?
>
> If so, that huge, the IDE, Project Inspector give us a custom property
> value editor field with just 4 line...'s and no re-sizing option.
>
> Sheesh, do you want to  edit a long list cities name, or a big JSON
> property with only 4 lines
>
> BR
>
> ==
> Geoff Canyon
>
>     As usual, you can get Navigator here
>     <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or
> grab it
>     from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jan 15 14:19:20 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 13:19:20 -0600
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <4fa6a417-7bf2-73f2-942b-f7574ec66bbd@krutt.org>
References: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>
	<5A48AB85-5D17-4D8F-901E-AD635E797F68@m-r-d.de>
	<4fa6a417-7bf2-73f2-942b-f7574ec66bbd@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <3c30287b-6871-c0c0-32ff-3a9c32074a69@hyperactivesw.com>

The best folder to write to on mobile is "documents". Both iOS and 
Android are sandboxed and disallow writing to either "engine" or 
"resources".

On 1/15/19 12:04 PM, JJS via use-livecode wrote:
> You could also use "home" as it works on 3 desktop platforms and iOs. 
> Linux does not have a "support". and Android uses "Engine"
> 
> 
> Op 15-1-2019 om 17:38 schreef Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode:
>> There should be no problem to copy/write/save a stack to the folder 
>> AppData . This is the recommended place if your app needs to write 
>> data to disk. It can be access using specialfolderpath("Support") or 
>> specialfolderpath(26).
>>
>> Or has this really changed in Windows 10?
>>
>> Matthias Rebbe
>>
>> free tools for Livecoders:
>> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
>> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
>>
>>> Am 15.01.2019 um 16:54 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>>
>>> Yes, with Windows 10, there is a feature called Sandboxing, where 
>>> even if your logged in user has write permissions to where the stack 
>>> is saving, you will still? not be able to write there. Program Files 
>>> is a great example. The solution is not to save stacks. Stacks should 
>>> not be the place you save information. Think of them as more like web 
>>> forms.
>>>
>>> I learned this the hard way. Instead you should save settings and 
>>> such in a "safe" location, either in a database or else in some kind 
>>> of settings file. I have a whole system for this. I arrayEncode an 
>>> array I use runtime for my settings and save it to disk each time a 
>>> setting changes.
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 15, 2019, at 01:59 , R.H. via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com 
>>>> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Failed saving onWindows 10 (all latest versions of LiveCode)
>>>>
>>>> I am talking about a compiled business related stack (small compiled
>>>> splash, main stack not compiled in a resource folder and various 
>>>> resources)
>>>> that goes to clients.
>>>>
>>>> Some of my clients experience that the main stack is not saving and 
>>>> will
>>>> leave two files in a state that does not allow to reopen them again. 
>>>> One of
>>>> the files is renamed with a tilde character "~" at the end of the 
>>>> filename.
>>>> This is the file "in progress" to be saved from file A to B and when 
>>>> the
>>>> saving was successful, the old file is removed.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From jjs at krutt.org  Tue Jan 15 16:14:46 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 22:14:46 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <3c30287b-6871-c0c0-32ff-3a9c32074a69@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>
	<5A48AB85-5D17-4D8F-901E-AD635E797F68@m-r-d.de>
	<4fa6a417-7bf2-73f2-942b-f7574ec66bbd@krutt.org>
	<3c30287b-6871-c0c0-32ff-3a9c32074a69@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6e56f49f-b798-98bd-6823-69b8f10d5a85@krutt.org>

yes "documents" on mobile is also ok

Op 15-1-2019 om 20:19 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode:
> The best folder to write to on mobile is "documents". Both iOS and 
> Android are sandboxed and disallow writing to either "engine" or 
> "resources".
>
> On 1/15/19 12:04 PM, JJS via use-livecode wrote:
>> You could also use "home" as it works on 3 desktop platforms and iOs. 
>> Linux does not have a "support". and Android uses "Engine"
>>
>>
>> Op 15-1-2019 om 17:38 schreef Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode:
>>> There should be no problem to copy/write/save a stack to the folder 
>>> AppData . This is the recommended place if your app needs to write 
>>> data to disk. It can be access using specialfolderpath("Support") or 
>>> specialfolderpath(26).
>>>
>>> Or has this really changed in Windows 10?
>>>
>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>>
>>> free tools for Livecoders:
>>> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
>>> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de 
>>> <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
>>>
>>>> Am 15.01.2019 um 16:54 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com 
>>>> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, with Windows 10, there is a feature called Sandboxing, where 
>>>> even if your logged in user has write permissions to where the 
>>>> stack is saving, you will still? not be able to write there. 
>>>> Program Files is a great example. The solution is not to save 
>>>> stacks. Stacks should not be the place you save information. Think 
>>>> of them as more like web forms.
>>>>
>>>> I learned this the hard way. Instead you should save settings and 
>>>> such in a "safe" location, either in a database or else in some 
>>>> kind of settings file. I have a whole system for this. I 
>>>> arrayEncode an array I use runtime for my settings and save it to 
>>>> disk each time a setting changes.
>>>>
>>>> Bob S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 15, 2019, at 01:59 , R.H. via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com 
>>>>> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Failed saving onWindows 10 (all latest versions of LiveCode)
>>>>>
>>>>> I am talking about a compiled business related stack (small compiled
>>>>> splash, main stack not compiled in a resource folder and various 
>>>>> resources)
>>>>> that goes to clients.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of my clients experience that the main stack is not saving 
>>>>> and will
>>>>> leave two files in a state that does not allow to reopen them 
>>>>> again. One of
>>>>> the files is renamed with a tilde character "~" at the end of the 
>>>>> filename.
>>>>> This is the file "in progress" to be saved from file A to B and 
>>>>> when the
>>>>> saving was successful, the old file is removed.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 17:04:30 2019
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 18:04:30 -0400
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12380.1547573530.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.12380.1547573530.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CAN3QPOxL+66E98JbSOY61Z1BZNUc4NGMpxwJ5DWxFap_bODrfA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ingar,

Since last year, I am using Livecode in Mac,
Linux and Windows (and running stacks
on Android 2.3 and 4.0.1).

Previously, I have run Livecode only
on windows, much later on linux,
then on android and only since last
year on mac osx. (ios and raspberry pi
are in my plans too)

Livecode is similar and very different
in each one of these platforms.

Recreating the HyperCard interface
on top of Livecode should be very
straightforward and some developers
have done this previously, but if you
want an estimate of the cost of recreating
the HyperCard experience using Livecode,
your best choice is to ask RunRev
themselves.

Notice please, I do not consider HyperCard
just an interface but an experience.
The experience of using the capabilities
of your computer in an easy and
human-friendly way.

How could you offer the same experience
in the year 2019? The answer is different
and unique for each operating system
in which Livecode runs.

For Mac developers, they only have
one platform to work. For this reason
HyperCard was really extraordinary.

In my desk, I have a PowerMac 7500
and running HyperCard is a joy.
Today anyone could run HyperCard
in their web browser visiting Archive.org :
(HyperCard is inside the disk that
you could see in the desktop)

https://archive.org/details/AppleMacintoshSystem753

So, tell me if I am wrong if I understand
yourrequest as this question:

How could we recreate the HyperCard
experience in different Operating Systems
using Livecode?

Al



but
notice that


on Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:46:00
Ingar Roggen wrote:

> Dear all of you, - Richard, Richmond and the rest of the users
> of this list - as you may have seen I have tried to get an idea
> (an offer!) of what it may cost - what one would have to pay -
> for an app or some other solution to the problem of making
> "HC easily portable to LC and thereby accessible
> to the rest of us" again??. Not having got any answer
> I give it one more try.


From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 18:37:33 2019
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:37:33 -0400
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12380.1547573530.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.12380.1547573530.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CAN3QPOypqcb9NJB6ub6wW8BZNYKz0CET=YUojPviqQ4st_o5Fw@mail.gmail.com>

Please dismiss these stray words at
the end of my previous message:

> but
> notice that

Al


From sundown at pacifier.com  Tue Jan 15 18:46:41 2019
From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 15:46:41 -0800
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <CAN3QPOypqcb9NJB6ub6wW8BZNYKz0CET=YUojPviqQ4st_o5Fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.12380.1547573530.25695.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<CAN3QPOypqcb9NJB6ub6wW8BZNYKz0CET=YUojPviqQ4st_o5Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CEB11FE0-2C68-48EC-9B99-6107592BD785@pacifier.com>

It is too late . . . I already noticed it.
Some things you just can?t change.

JB


> On Jan 15, 2019, at 3:37 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Please dismiss these stray words at
> the end of my previous message:
> 
>> but
>> notice that
> 
> Al
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Jan 16 01:54:46 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 00:54:46 -0600
Subject: Improving DataView scrolling algorithm on desktop
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG9Fv4dOb2zAR7_f7Y-v6S2OX4dzwVB2=vgPAbCtX3yejA@mail.gmail.com>

For those that don't use the forums I'm posting here as well.

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=32041

The DataView code that handles scrolling on the desktop could use some
love. It is quite basic and can sometimes look choppy. If anyone with
experience in writing scrolling algorithms wants to look into it you can
visit the following issue on GitHub for details:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/issues/3

If you decide to look into just a leave a note there so others know.

FYI: When running on iOS the native iOS scroller is used so scrolling is
much smoother.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Jan 16 08:38:58 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:38:58 +0100
Subject: AW: Script Editor Slow on Windows
Message-ID: <003201d4ada0$d5fd58f0$81f80ad0$@kestner.de>

Hello,

any new insights?
I am working on a fast windows 10 machine with LC 9.0.2.
No message box open, no project browser open, almost all new fancy editor
options off, no plugins.
Though very laggy input. Sometimes I write a whole line and the characters
appear, when I am in the next line. That?s not really usable.
Has anybody found any tweaks, to speed up the editor again?
Is the windows defender an issue or only a guess? I have installed Kaspersky
and I once have read, that any third party AV tool shuts off the defender,
because it replaces it. But I don't know, if this is the case for all
defender functions.
A workaround would perhaps be, doing the edit in a LC 8 version and only
when it comes to building the standalone or using any new features,
switching to LC 9. But really?
Any new insights welcome
Tiemo

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von AndyP via use-livecode
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. September 2018 10:12
An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Cc: AndyP <smudge.andy at googlemail.com>
Betreff: Re: Script Editor Slow on Windows (any Macs?)

As something to test. I've noticed that the script editor problems worsen
when either the project browser or message box have been opened, the longer
these are open the more the script editor ... in all of LC 9 series gets.

If I do not have the project browser open or use the message box then the
degradation in speed does not in my case materialize so quickly.

I have seen the same slowdown effect on a 64b Intel i5 4440 @ 3.10GHz with
8GB and a newish I7 620 2.66GHz 64b laptop with 16GB ram installed.

I have no plugins activated, in fact, I tried with the plugins folder
emptied.

It would appear that ide messages are hanging somewhere along line?



-----
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker /
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
Sent from:
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 09:51:37 2019
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:51:37 +0200
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <003201d4ada0$d5fd58f0$81f80ad0$@kestner.de>
References: <003201d4ada0$d5fd58f0$81f80ad0$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-Rf8q9q2kVKHnKQyujjK-dJ1fp=O2gB2uzpiwMiVexug@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Tiemo,

Could you try disabling "Real Time Protection" in Windows Defender?

Best,
Panos
--



On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:41 PM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> any new insights?
> I am working on a fast windows 10 machine with LC 9.0.2.
> No message box open, no project browser open, almost all new fancy editor
> options off, no plugins.
> Though very laggy input. Sometimes I write a whole line and the characters
> appear, when I am in the next line. That?s not really usable.
> Has anybody found any tweaks, to speed up the editor again?
> Is the windows defender an issue or only a guess? I have installed
> Kaspersky
> and I once have read, that any third party AV tool shuts off the defender,
> because it replaces it. But I don't know, if this is the case for all
> defender functions.
> A workaround would perhaps be, doing the edit in a LC 8 version and only
> when it comes to building the standalone or using any new features,
> switching to LC 9. But really?
> Any new insights welcome
> Tiemo
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im
> Auftrag
> von AndyP via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. September 2018 10:12
> An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Cc: AndyP <smudge.andy at googlemail.com>
> Betreff: Re: Script Editor Slow on Windows (any Macs?)
>
> As something to test. I've noticed that the script editor problems worsen
> when either the project browser or message box have been opened, the longer
> these are open the more the script editor ... in all of LC 9 series gets.
>
> If I do not have the project browser open or use the message box then the
> degradation in speed does not in my case materialize so quickly.
>
> I have seen the same slowdown effect on a 64b Intel i5 4440 @ 3.10GHz with
> 8GB and a newish I7 620 2.66GHz 64b laptop with 16GB ram installed.
>
> I have no plugins activated, in fact, I tried with the plugins folder
> emptied.
>
> It would appear that ide messages are hanging somewhere along line?
>
>
>
> -----
> Andy Piddock
>
>
> My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
>
> TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode
>
>
> Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk
>
> PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker /
> finder.
> http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
> --
> Sent from:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Jan 16 09:56:23 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:56:23 +0100
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-Rf8q9q2kVKHnKQyujjK-dJ1fp=O2gB2uzpiwMiVexug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003201d4ada0$d5fd58f0$81f80ad0$@kestner.de>
	<CA+JfEq-Rf8q9q2kVKHnKQyujjK-dJ1fp=O2gB2uzpiwMiVexug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5167B9C-7AE2-4723-80C5-A2A3E3A6E6DC@m-r-d.de>

Or better just exclude Livecode...exe from Realtime Protection / Realtime Scan to keep the system safe.


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 16.01.2019 um 15:51 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Hello Tiemo,
> 
> Could you try disabling "Real Time Protection" in Windows Defender?
> 
> Best,
> Panos
> --
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:41 PM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> any new insights?
>> I am working on a fast windows 10 machine with LC 9.0.2.
>> No message box open, no project browser open, almost all new fancy editor
>> options off, no plugins.
>> Though very laggy input. Sometimes I write a whole line and the characters
>> appear, when I am in the next line. That?s not really usable.
>> Has anybody found any tweaks, to speed up the editor again?
>> Is the windows defender an issue or only a guess? I have installed
>> Kaspersky
>> and I once have read, that any third party AV tool shuts off the defender,
>> because it replaces it. But I don't know, if this is the case for all
>> defender functions.
>> A workaround would perhaps be, doing the edit in a LC 8 version and only
>> when it comes to building the standalone or using any new features,
>> switching to LC 9. But really?
>> Any new insights welcome
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>] Im
>> Auftrag
>> von AndyP via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. September 2018 10:12
>> An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: AndyP <smudge.andy at googlemail.com <mailto:smudge.andy at googlemail.com>>
>> Betreff: Re: Script Editor Slow on Windows (any Macs?)
>> 
>> As something to test. I've noticed that the script editor problems worsen
>> when either the project browser or message box have been opened, the longer
>> these are open the more the script editor ... in all of LC 9 series gets.
>> 
>> If I do not have the project browser open or use the message box then the
>> degradation in speed does not in my case materialize so quickly.
>> 
>> I have seen the same slowdown effect on a 64b Intel i5 4440 @ 3.10GHz with
>> 8GB and a newish I7 620 2.66GHz 64b laptop with 16GB ram installed.
>> 
>> I have no plugins activated, in fact, I tried with the plugins folder
>> emptied.
>> 
>> It would appear that ide messages are hanging somewhere along line?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----
>> Andy Piddock
>> 
>> 
>> My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
>> 
>> TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode
>> 
>> 
>> Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk <http://2108.co.uk/>
>> 
>> PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker /
>> finder.
>> http://www.pointandsee.co.uk <http://www.pointandsee.co.uk/>  - made with LiveCode
>> --
>> Sent from:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html <http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 16 10:57:28 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:57:28 +0000
Subject: Crunchy chestnuts again, again, again
In-Reply-To: <58D5509A-351D-4682-867B-BDB3434338D7@hindu.org>
References: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
	<58D5509A-351D-4682-867B-BDB3434338D7@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <55BCD9C5-96C8-4678-94C2-D06D184DACEA@iotecdigital.com>

You have to sign up methinks. Which excludes people not signed up from voting. <humorous political commentary deleted>

Bob S


> On Jan 15, 2019, at 09:32 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> How do you vote on the forum?
> 
> Brahmanathaswami
> 
> 
> ? Richmond 
> 
>    Indeed: Please signal your opinion:
> 
>    http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31971
> 
>    Richmond.


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 16 11:04:24 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:04:24 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <5A48AB85-5D17-4D8F-901E-AD635E797F68@m-r-d.de>
References: <CAG1Q0g-rmkqg=FdMC8xvq2VxkNuMvhfkh0H5WyoceRTw4NguNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BEC91EB7-C3C9-42A0-8127-00336BC9F239@iotecdigital.com>
	<5A48AB85-5D17-4D8F-901E-AD635E797F68@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <78407518-661B-40F6-91E3-CDD6A8C24BB2@iotecdigital.com>

When I first distributed my Forms Generator to Windows users, I had it put into the Program Files folder. They immediately reported CTD almost as soon as they launched the app and after signing in. I traced it to the fact that I routinely save my stacks by script in development so I do not lose any changes. I had to completely refactor to not do that anymore, and to keep any persistent changes I needed to save in a prefs file. 

Bottom line, when distributing standalone, IMHO, don't save anything with the stack, or else install the standalone in a place where the user has write access by default. 

Bob S


> On Jan 15, 2019, at 08:38 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> There should be no problem to copy/write/save a stack to the folder AppData . This is the recommended place if your app needs to write data to disk. It can be access using specialfolderpath("Support") or specialfolderpath(26).
> 
> Or has this really changed in Windows 10?
> 
> Matthias Rebbe




From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Jan 16 11:45:30 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:45:30 +0100
Subject: AW: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <B5167B9C-7AE2-4723-80C5-A2A3E3A6E6DC@m-r-d.de>
References: <003201d4ada0$d5fd58f0$81f80ad0$@kestner.de>	<CA+JfEq-Rf8q9q2kVKHnKQyujjK-dJ1fp=O2gB2uzpiwMiVexug@mail.gmail.com>
	<B5167B9C-7AE2-4723-80C5-A2A3E3A6E6DC@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <003e01d4adba$e4fc76a0$aef563e0$@kestner.de>

Hi Matthias,

how is "Real Time Protection" called in German? I don't find that option :(

Tiemo

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Januar 2019 15:56
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Matthias Rebbe <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de>
Betreff: Re: Script Editor Slow on Windows

Or better just exclude Livecode...exe from Realtime Protection / Realtime Scan to keep the system safe.


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 16.01.2019 um 15:51 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Hello Tiemo,
> 
> Could you try disabling "Real Time Protection" in Windows Defender?
> 
> Best,
> Panos
> --
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:41 PM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> any new insights?
>> I am working on a fast windows 10 machine with LC 9.0.2.
>> No message box open, no project browser open, almost all new fancy 
>> editor options off, no plugins.
>> Though very laggy input. Sometimes I write a whole line and the 
>> characters appear, when I am in the next line. That?s not really usable.
>> Has anybody found any tweaks, to speed up the editor again?
>> Is the windows defender an issue or only a guess? I have installed 
>> Kaspersky and I once have read, that any third party AV tool shuts 
>> off the defender, because it replaces it. But I don't know, if this 
>> is the case for all defender functions.
>> A workaround would perhaps be, doing the edit in a LC 8 version and 
>> only when it comes to building the standalone or using any new 
>> features, switching to LC 9. But really?
>> Any new insights welcome
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
>> <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>] Im Auftrag von AndyP 
>> via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. September 2018 10:12
>> An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
>> <mailto:use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: AndyP <smudge.andy at googlemail.com 
>> <mailto:smudge.andy at googlemail.com>>
>> Betreff: Re: Script Editor Slow on Windows (any Macs?)
>> 
>> As something to test. I've noticed that the script editor problems 
>> worsen when either the project browser or message box have been 
>> opened, the longer these are open the more the script editor ... in all of LC 9 series gets.
>> 
>> If I do not have the project browser open or use the message box then 
>> the degradation in speed does not in my case materialize so quickly.
>> 
>> I have seen the same slowdown effect on a 64b Intel i5 4440 @ 3.10GHz 
>> with 8GB and a newish I7 620 2.66GHz 64b laptop with 16GB ram installed.
>> 
>> I have no plugins activated, in fact, I tried with the plugins folder 
>> emptied.
>> 
>> It would appear that ide messages are hanging somewhere along line?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----
>> Andy Piddock
>> 
>> 
>> My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
>> 
>> TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode
>> 
>> 
>> Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk <http://2108.co.uk/>
>> 
>> PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour 
>> picker / finder.
>> http://www.pointandsee.co.uk <http://www.pointandsee.co.uk/>  - made 
>> with LiveCode
>> --
>> Sent from:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f27830
>> 6.html 
>> <http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f2783
>> 06.html>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Jan 16 11:58:16 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:58:16 +0100
Subject: AW: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <003e01d4adba$e4fc76a0$aef563e0$@kestner.de>
References: <003201d4ada0$d5fd58f0$81f80ad0$@kestner.de>	<CA+JfEq-Rf8q9q2kVKHnKQyujjK-dJ1fp=O2gB2uzpiwMiVexug@mail.gmail.com>	<B5167B9C-7AE2-4723-80C5-A2A3E3A6E6DC@m-r-d.de>
	<003e01d4adba$e4fc76a0$aef563e0$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <003f01d4adbc$add19f00$0974dd00$@kestner.de>

I think the Windows defender menu and options change, depending on what AV you have installed. I have Kaspersky installed and by this the defender doesen't have this option.

I tested to put LC to the trusted list of programs of Kaspersky, but as it is, right now, I don't see the lag either with or without that option.

I have to make more tests tomorrow

Tiemo

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Januar 2019 17:46
An: 'How to use LiveCode' <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de>
Betreff: AW: Script Editor Slow on Windows

Hi Matthias,

how is "Real Time Protection" called in German? I don't find that option :(

Tiemo

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Januar 2019 15:56
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Matthias Rebbe <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de>
Betreff: Re: Script Editor Slow on Windows

Or better just exclude Livecode...exe from Realtime Protection / Realtime Scan to keep the system safe.


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 16.01.2019 um 15:51 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Hello Tiemo,
> 
> Could you try disabling "Real Time Protection" in Windows Defender?
> 
> Best,
> Panos
> --
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:41 PM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> any new insights?
>> I am working on a fast windows 10 machine with LC 9.0.2.
>> No message box open, no project browser open, almost all new fancy 
>> editor options off, no plugins.
>> Though very laggy input. Sometimes I write a whole line and the 
>> characters appear, when I am in the next line. That?s not really usable.
>> Has anybody found any tweaks, to speed up the editor again?
>> Is the windows defender an issue or only a guess? I have installed 
>> Kaspersky and I once have read, that any third party AV tool shuts 
>> off the defender, because it replaces it. But I don't know, if this 
>> is the case for all defender functions.
>> A workaround would perhaps be, doing the edit in a LC 8 version and 
>> only when it comes to building the standalone or using any new 
>> features, switching to LC 9. But really?
>> Any new insights welcome
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>] Im Auftrag von AndyP 
>> via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. September 2018 10:12
>> An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> <mailto:use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: AndyP <smudge.andy at googlemail.com 
>> <mailto:smudge.andy at googlemail.com>>
>> Betreff: Re: Script Editor Slow on Windows (any Macs?)
>> 
>> As something to test. I've noticed that the script editor problems 
>> worsen when either the project browser or message box have been 
>> opened, the longer these are open the more the script editor ... in all of LC 9 series gets.
>> 
>> If I do not have the project browser open or use the message box then 
>> the degradation in speed does not in my case materialize so quickly.
>> 
>> I have seen the same slowdown effect on a 64b Intel i5 4440 @ 3.10GHz 
>> with 8GB and a newish I7 620 2.66GHz 64b laptop with 16GB ram installed.
>> 
>> I have no plugins activated, in fact, I tried with the plugins folder 
>> emptied.
>> 
>> It would appear that ide messages are hanging somewhere along line?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----
>> Andy Piddock
>> 
>> 
>> My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
>> 
>> TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode
>> 
>> 
>> Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk <http://2108.co.uk/>
>> 
>> PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour 
>> picker / finder.
>> http://www.pointandsee.co.uk <http://www.pointandsee.co.uk/>  - made 
>> with LiveCode
>> --
>> Sent from:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f27830
>> 6.html
>> <http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f2783
>> 06.html>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 12:04:11 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:04:11 +0200
Subject: Crunchy chestnuts again, again, again
In-Reply-To: <55BCD9C5-96C8-4678-94C2-D06D184DACEA@iotecdigital.com>
References: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
	<58D5509A-351D-4682-867B-BDB3434338D7@hindu.org>
	<55BCD9C5-96C8-4678-94C2-D06D184DACEA@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <8705aaed-1611-89e8-28fe-1e9fc9eb1400@gmail.com>

Aha: at last I have discovered the truth: you are actually Theresa May 
cunningly
pretending to be a computer programmer.

This message must be taken in context and understood to be in no way 
intended
to be offensive to Theresa May. :)

Richmond.

On 16.01.19 17:57, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> You have to sign up methinks. Which excludes people not signed up from voting. <humorous political commentary deleted>
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Jan 15, 2019, at 09:32 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> How do you vote on the forum?
>>
>> Brahmanathaswami
>>
>>
>> ? Richmond
>>
>>     Indeed: Please signal your opinion:
>>
>>     http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31971
>>
>>     Richmond.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 16 12:41:04 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:41:04 +0000
Subject: Crunchy chestnuts again, again, again
In-Reply-To: <8705aaed-1611-89e8-28fe-1e9fc9eb1400@gmail.com>
References: <22e613ae-2353-1c13-6b93-38ce0976c158@gmail.com>
	<58D5509A-351D-4682-867B-BDB3434338D7@hindu.org>
	<55BCD9C5-96C8-4678-94C2-D06D184DACEA@iotecdigital.com>
	<8705aaed-1611-89e8-28fe-1e9fc9eb1400@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A003AF2-6146-452F-B21B-866CCF21D18B@iotecdigital.com>

How do you  know that Theresa May is not actually me pretending to be a politician? Hmmm???

Bob S


> On Jan 16, 2019, at 09:04 , Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Aha: at last I have discovered the truth: you are actually Theresa May cunningly
> pretending to be a computer programmer.
> 
> This message must be taken in context and understood to be in no way intended
> to be offensive to Theresa May. :)
> 
> Richmond.




From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Wed Jan 16 13:00:26 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:00:26 +0000
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <16772628b00.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <FBB75772-65BE-40F2-8A68-E3ED40BF61B2@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
	<16772628b00.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <7502DFDA-9350-4D91-B99E-711E7274714C@sosgeo.uio.no>

If ?interest? means ?money to purchase? I would like to know how much!
Ingar



> 3. des. 2018 kl. 05.45 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Someone on the HC list did just that many years ago using MC. I don't think he ever finished it though, it turned out to be a lot of work and there was little interest by then.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On December 2, 2018 7:56:52 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ingar Roggen:
>> 
>> > ...why not elaborate it to the tool, the app needed to make HC easily
>> > portable to LC and thereby accessible "to the rest of us" again?
>> > Anybody takes the challenge?
>> 
>> One could make HC's interface in LC. Anyone game?
>> 
>> I once thought about doing it myself...
>> http://livecodejournal.com/features/the-true-power-of-hypercard.html
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Wed Jan 16 13:16:56 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:16:56 +0000
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <4b015287-93fa-208b-d602-9129012d2b11@gmail.com>
References: <FBB75772-65BE-40F2-8A68-E3ED40BF61B2@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
	<059597F3-3FEE-4A8D-8B83-776EB8C97D8E@sosgeo.uio.no>
	<4b015287-93fa-208b-d602-9129012d2b11@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E0E7D947-26FE-4AE5-86C8-87C0C16498B4@sosgeo.uio.no>

Richmond
You write ?Why you should "pick on me" in regard to trying to convert stuff that must be, at the very least,
20 years out of date I don't know.? If I have bothered you you must excuse me. It surely wasn?t my intention. I must have mistaken your name for another.
Regards Ingar

> 15. jan. 2019 kl. 19.17 skrev Richmond <richmondmathewson at gmail.com>:
> 
> I did get 2 'odd' messages from you to me that seemed to be something quite different, so I popped them
> in my SPAM box.
> 
> Why you should "pick on me" in regard to trying to convert stuff that must be, at the very least,
> 20 years out of date I don't know.
> 
> On the very, very rare occasion I find a Hypercard stack that has a vaguely interesting title
> I have to do the following:
> 
> Unearth either my G4 Mac Mini or my G5 iMac and run HyperCard in "Classic" to look at the functionailty
> and code.
> 
> Rather than "fart around" converting stacks, my experience has been that it is better to copy code across into
> an LC stack running under RunRev 2, and then running that over to whatever computer I happen to be
> "in love with" at the moment.
> 
> BUT, frankly, HyperCard is almost half my computer-life away (I'm 56 and
> I started programming when I was 14 = 42) so when I really feel "fully retro"
> I fire up my BBC Micro 1981 or my BBC Master 1988 and get "down and dirty"
> with BBC BASIC, which, oddly enough, still has features LiveCode does not (Sound Export . . .).
> 
> Converting HyperCard stacks has been, in my experience, a waste of time:
> the overhead of having to debug the resultant thing is far more trouble than recreating the functionality in LiveCode.
> 
> Anyone wanting to teach a Neanderthal to drive a car should NOT apply to me.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 15.01.19 16:46, Ingar Roggen wrote:
>> Dear all of you, - Richard, Richmond and the rest of the users of this list -
>> as you may have seen I have tried to get an idea (an offer!) of what it may cost - what one would have to pay - for an app or some other solution to the problem of making "HC easily portable to LC and thereby accessible ?to the rest of us" again??. Not having got any answer I give it one more try.
>> Regards - Ingar
>> 
>> 
>>> 3. des. 2018 kl. 02.55 skrev Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Ingar Roggen:
>>> 
>>>> ...why not elaborate it to the tool, the app needed to make HC easily
>>>> portable to LC and thereby accessible "to the rest of us" again?
>>>> Anybody takes the challenge?
>>> One could make HC's interface in LC. Anyone game?
>>> 
>>> I once thought about doing it myself...
>>> http://livecodejournal.com/features/the-true-power-of-hypercard.html
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jan 16 14:44:47 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 13:44:47 -0600
Subject: LC-apps for HC
In-Reply-To: <7502DFDA-9350-4D91-B99E-711E7274714C@sosgeo.uio.no>
References: <FBB75772-65BE-40F2-8A68-E3ED40BF61B2@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<e4652bed-a189-9dbf-7ca5-213e99b49117@fourthworld.com>
	<16772628b00.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<7502DFDA-9350-4D91-B99E-711E7274714C@sosgeo.uio.no>
Message-ID: <1685831d398.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

It was to be free, but it was never completed. Two years or more went by 
while he tinkered with it and he eventually abandoned it. This happened at 
least ten years ago or more, and he has since left the community and taken 
down the project.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 16, 2019 12:01:26 PM Ingar Roggen 
<ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no> wrote:

> If ?interest? means ?money to purchase? I would like to know how much!
> Ingar
>
>
>
>> 3. des. 2018 kl. 05.45 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Someone on the HC list did just that many years ago using MC. I don't think 
>> he ever finished it though, it turned out to be a lot of work and there was 
>> little interest by then.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On December 2, 2018 7:56:52 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ingar Roggen:
>>>
>>>> ...why not elaborate it to the tool, the app needed to make HC easily
>>>> portable to LC and thereby accessible "to the rest of us" again?
>>>> Anybody takes the challenge?
>>>
>>> One could make HC's interface in LC. Anyone game?
>>>
>>> I once thought about doing it myself...
>>> http://livecodejournal.com/features/the-true-power-of-hypercard.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 14:50:16 2019
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 20:50:16 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g9_C9hMcwOPgcX=jrt3AeymMfgufqsEF=vU5kwL_wmBoA@mail.gmail.com>

Windows: Regarding the many replies to the question of allowing saving a
stack file I would like to thank everybody for the answers by Matthias,
Bob, Alex, Jacqueline, JJS ...

The problem was that a stack file used by a compiled splash stack does not
save on some client's computers with Windows systems >= 7 and can only be
run once leaving an unsaved file that is renamed with a tilde character.

===

I am distributing the executing splash stack (compiled stack) in a folder
together with subfolders offering for download as a zip file. Users move
the zip to the desktop, unzips and uses. There is nothing stored in
inaccessible "system" or whatever non-user directories. It is a very simple
setup.

In one subfolder of the executable, the actual data stack is residing.

Yes, I am aware that I could save data outside of the stack and not save
the stack itself, but I agree with Richard that it must be possible to
store data in the stack itself in principle. For now, it would require a
new version if I stored data outside. But it is a good hint and I might
consider for later.

Another solution put forward by Alex was to rename the stack file from the
splash stack that failed to save and remove the tilde from the filename. In
fact, it could be a workaround and I have to test it, but it is ugly and it
would not allow saving after all. I will test it though as a quick solution.

Another question was whether user rights on client's computers might
disallow them to save the stack. But then, I checked and they usually use
Admin rights, then also the executable splash stack would not run. The data
stack is just a file to the system, nothing more. And why would it be
permitted on some machines and other not? (I checked that nobody is using
forbidden directories.)

The problem may be a bit deeper. I am also considering that if the stack
file is too big and the process of saving takes so long as in this case
(always > 15 secs, often 30 secs and more, even though no data was changed
at all) and Windows Defender might detect such activity and stop it because
of a time out. Just wild speculations...

Another speculation is that the stack file is somehow corrupted (not
detectable by me) and maybe the LiveCode team can check it's integrity. Or
is there a way to check this as well? I have started a ticket to look at
the problem.

I will report when I found a solution. I see that other users here might
not have encountered such problem on Windows machines and this in itself is
also valuable information.

Thanks to all
Roland


From curry at pair.com  Wed Jan 16 18:10:27 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:10:27 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g9_C9hMcwOPgcX=jrt3AeymMfgufqsEF=vU5kwL_wmBoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g9_C9hMcwOPgcX=jrt3AeymMfgufqsEF=vU5kwL_wmBoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44d85261-6254-3e7a-6bfc-170376a037cc@pair.com>


Although it's quite possible to save data in stack file(s) if you do it 
properly, people who follow that route often have trouble, so I 
discourage it. It's very tempting to try and save data to the 
distribution folder, or to mix data and user interface together! Quite 
the sticky, messy mixture. :)

A nice plan to avoid trouble is:

1. Keep data to save separate from UI
2. Save to Documents if the user should see it, otherwise App Data
3. Use a very standard Windows installer

(That's the easy road. And others have already mentioned some of those 
points in whole or in part.)

Distributing a zip also has a long heritage, there some outstanding apps 
distributed that way that I use myself, but when you have no control 
over the destination nor the integrity of the app folder, all the more 
reason to very strictly save ONLY to the most appropriate locations. 
Then you can skip the installer - but you can't skip both.

That would be your best short-term option now, having already taken 
another road and wanting a quick fix. Save the stack to App Data! Read 
it only once from the distro. Long-term, think hard about moving over to 
the "easy road" for data storage.

The days of distributing data however-the-heck-you-want are pretty much 
over. If you want some freedom in one area such as saving to your distro 
folder, you must gain greater control over other factors such as the 
install location or privileges. Obviously that's the more difficult and 
less certain path....

In fact I have seen the tilde-named stack before, similar to what you 
describe. LC is unable to complete the save. I've also heard of lengthy 
delays when saving. I don't recall the specific trigger, but usually 
applying the above guidelines clears up these symptoms along with 
various other headaches. Where to save is very important, and doing it 
properly works wonders. "Just do it!" ;)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jan 16 20:11:07 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:11:07 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <44d85261-6254-3e7a-6bfc-170376a037cc@pair.com>
References: <44d85261-6254-3e7a-6bfc-170376a037cc@pair.com>
Message-ID: <e75b3219-9577-89f3-0201-34c032e91e87@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

 > Although it's quite possible to save data in stack file(s) if you do
 > it properly, people who follow that route often have trouble, so I
 > discourage it.

Depends what's in the stack file.

The traditional factoring of code, UI, and data became a best practice 
for good reason.

But stack files can be very versatile storage containers, offering many 
of the benefits of LSON (LC encoded arrays) but with the addition of 
being able to contain LC objects as well.

LSON's generally my go-to unless I have a specific need for something 
else, but once in a while stack files have been a good solution for storage.

There are many storage formats to choose from, and stack files have a 
place among them.  For keeping with the tradition of separating code, 
UI, and data, it's not the format but how it's used.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jan 16 22:54:20 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 21:54:20 -0600
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <e75b3219-9577-89f3-0201-34c032e91e87@fourthworld.com>
References: <44d85261-6254-3e7a-6bfc-170376a037cc@pair.com>
	<e75b3219-9577-89f3-0201-34c032e91e87@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <16859f205e0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

As you say, the file format isn't an issue. I frequently use stack files 
for storage of all kinds of things. Never had any problem with it. The 
different types of data storage provided in stack format can be very useful.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 16, 2019 7:12:58 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> There are many storage formats to choose from, and stack files have a
> place among them.  For keeping with the tradition of separating code,
> UI, and data, it's not the format but how it's used.





From gcanyon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 02:23:47 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 23:23:47 -0800
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrnVA91f0ekg2Um+TDaUge40CrY+xCx-s_nijPRypBo+Q@mail.gmail.com>

In Navigator I use the value() function in several ways. In particular, I
use it as a way for users to customize Navigator's list display. For some
reason I've managed to go all these years blissfully unaware of the merge()
function, which is seemingly superior to value() for this purpose in pretty
much every way. A few examples:

Using value() I use the string "tID" to represent the long id of the
control being represented. In retrospect I should have used value(<value
string>,<the long id>) which would allow the user to use "me". But I didn't
think of that when I first created the functionality, or really until just
a few minutes ago, but even so, the most basic displays are about
equivalent:

To display:
button "Cancel" - [1150]

using value():
the name of tID && "[" & the id of tID & "]"

using merge():
[[the name of tID]] - ([[the id of tID]])
(is there a way to escape the "["?)

The merge() call is cleaner, because it inherently has access to the tID
variable; for value() I have to replace "tID" with the long id before using
value().

For value(), I implemented a special iff() function, so I could do
conditionals inline. The drawback is that both of the return values get
implemented before being handed to the function, so this will fail:

get iff(1+1=2,"true",3/0) -- fails even though the value 3/0 isn't needed.

To work around that, I came up with the function iffv(), which takes
strings and then returns the value of only the necessary string. So this
will work:

get iffv("1+1=2","true","3/0") -- succeeds because the function does not
perform value("3/0")

But the syntax for that quickly becomes unwieldy. Instead, merge() supports
executing arbitrary code within it, so to display a control and its
behavior:

button "Cancel" | stack "rev_b_Cancel 5"

using value():
the name of tID & iffv(the behavior of tID is not empty,Q(" | ") && "&" &&
"the name of the behavior of" && the long id of tID,"")

using merge():
[[the name of tID]]<?if the behavior of tID is not empty then return " |"
&& the name of the behavior of tID?>

That's a lot simpler!

Merge is also possibly going to allow me to pre-calculate a single large
merge string and then use that to generate the entire HTMLtext for
Navigator's display.


From curry at pair.com  Thu Jan 17 02:46:48 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:46:48 -0500
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <44d85261-6254-3e7a-6bfc-170376a037cc@pair.com>
References: <44d85261-6254-3e7a-6bfc-170376a037cc@pair.com>
Message-ID: <d4a68072-5b7c-6875-59f6-fbda0d464542@pair.com>


Thanks Richard and Jacque for the enthusiastic support of my opening 
observation:

"it's quite possible to save data in stack file(s) if you do it
properly"

Yes, that holds true. :)

But as a responsible advisor to people in the community at large, I must 
discourage stack files as first choice to save data from installed apps. 
People who follow that route often have trouble.

Not talking about any particular dry academic "best practices" that 
someone wrote, someone else read, a third parroted. Nor tradition. 
Simply real LC cases right here in our community - I find a good 
correlation between people with problems and people who save to stacks. 
Few do it properly. It's a problem here.

When people have bad habits, I actually get more business. So maybe I 
should be encouraging people to use stacks first and foremost for data 
storage, among other things! Ha ha. But there's no way I'd ever do that; 
I care about people and I want them to have fewer problems in their code.

Using stacks to save data, "It's very tempting to try and save data to 
the distribution folder, or to mix data and user interface together!" 
The medium does have some effect on the transaction and the people 
involved, also depending on what experience people are coming from.

Since stacks normally hold UI and LC code, it's a very small step to mix 
data and UI together. And that's exactly what people tend to do. From 
there, they tend to save directly to the app folder, another tiny step 
that often involves just one word of code. Not to mention a few other 
gotchas of stacks compared to other files if used wrongly. It's a quick 
route to trouble, and I've been called to rescue many a ship that was 
following that siren call....

I provided a quick fix for those in that situation. And it's also 
possible to use stack files the "right" way for saving data. For that 
matter stacks can hold almost any type of data, and almost any type of 
data file can hold stacks and UI. Anything is possible.

But most people will be better served keeping these things separated for 
easy understanding and building solid habits. Stacks (or properly 
designated flat files) for UI and code, another type of file or a 
database for data. App in Program Files or Applications, data in the 
proper place per OS and purpose. A standard installer, or else even more 
care (not less) in app awareness and data handling. Sign your app if 
needed, or provide some installation FAQ for users, and be cautious 
about accessing files to minimize AV issues and system issues.

These tend to steer people in the right direction, and mixing things 
together often leads people astray. I'm sorry that's the case, it 
doesn't have to be, but often it is. Real people, real stacks; reality 
talking. Of course, stack-data aficionados that know their stuff can do 
their thing; I'm probably not reaching a ghostly hand out of your email 
Inbox to stop you. (Just make sure that it works as well as you think! 
I've seen some notable exceptions.)

So that's my PSA on data files. It's pretty much win-win-win because 
either the tip helps people and they avoid problems, or if they take 
another road and have trouble I'll likely have the chance to help them 
out later, while those who really know the ropes can feel even more 
empowered using stacks for data and piling on greater support for my 
opening observation. Take care and good night! :D

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From iphonelagi at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 05:52:37 2019
From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:52:37 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <e75b3219-9577-89f3-0201-34c032e91e87@fourthworld.com>
References: <44d85261-6254-3e7a-6bfc-170376a037cc@pair.com>
	<e75b3219-9577-89f3-0201-34c032e91e87@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1h1VCYnMrC7AFVOHxh+hRD16hf5Y5ceSnjYY2StHUr_vhKOw@mail.gmail.com>

A POS system that I wrote saved a few arrays and text on exit. It worked
beautifully in  99.9% % of the time but every so often the user would start
up and the file was corrupted some how - I  saw the tilde file (exactly as
word does (used to do it?), when view extensions for known file type was
enabled in windows.

The thing I couldn't figure was that people using it for over 2 years never
had a problem, another shop that had three of my  POS systems NEVER had a
problem there were basically at most 5-7 sites that had the problem -
rarely (once or twice a year  - then never again) but two machines were
corrupting every month or so it seemed). I checked to see if they switched
off without exiting - but I know that in 99.99% of cases you could do that
without corrupting.

All the machines run windows 7 embedded and of course I switched off
updates (if it works today it will work tomorrow - I threatened them with
death if they installed anything or used the internet on it). There was  no
rhyme or reason to the corruption, as one of the shops had 2 machines
bought at the same time and the one was corrupting consistently and the
other wasn't. In the end I just created another table in the sqlite
database and saved the encoded  arrays in there - never a problem since.
Lesson learned (by me at least) it's not worth the aggro, the coding is not
that much more involved so why bother unless it's for my  own use as I have
full control? Although I have teamviewer on each machine - talking somebody
through connecting the device to the internet after they have changed ISP
or other reasons meant too much wasted time explaining what and where a
status bar was/is

"Every time I make my program fool proof the universe comes up with a
better fool"

Lagi

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 at 01:11, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Curry Kenworthy wrote:
>
>  > Although it's quite possible to save data in stack file(s) if you do
>  > it properly, people who follow that route often have trouble, so I
>  > discourage it.
>
> Depends what's in the stack file.
>
> The traditional factoring of code, UI, and data became a best practice
> for good reason.
>
> But stack files can be very versatile storage containers, offering many
> of the benefits of LSON (LC encoded arrays) but with the addition of
> being able to contain LC objects as well.
>
> LSON's generally my go-to unless I have a specific need for something
> else, but once in a while stack files have been a good solution for
> storage.
>
> There are many storage formats to choose from, and stack files have a
> place among them.  For keeping with the tradition of separating code,
> UI, and data, it's not the format but how it's used.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From hh at hyperhh.de  Thu Jan 17 07:36:22 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:36:22 +0100
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
Message-ID: <AB86062E-D787-4F3C-A568-06757521A77A@hyperhh.de>

> Geoff wrote:
> using value():
> the name of tID && "[" & the id of tID & "]"
> using merge():
> [[the name of tID]] - ([[the id of tID]])
> (is there a way to escape the "["?)

You could use with merge not only variables but also functions
that are available for the script that calls merge:

[[br(the id of tID)]]

function br x
  return "[" & x & "]"
end br




From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 10:15:44 2019
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 16:15:44 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g950W5iYPX_b3UfPtspbRirRtfOwxGyZwYNrSfZJ1rqRw@mail.gmail.com>

Well, thanks for all the comments regarding failing to save the data stack
distributed with a compiled splash stack. Each case is different. In this
case, I have to actually go by my promise to not install anything on the
target machine that is not visible inside my app folder. The user can just
remove the folder and that's it - by agreement. So, that actually disallows
even storing anything else in any writable directory in this particular
case.

The data stack uses data separated from UI and data is read-only. The user
saves data to a text file. That all works well. The saving of the "data"
stack that includes the separate UI has mainly one purpose: to allow the
user starting from where he/she stopped working with the application. But
this is not crucial and I will simply not save anything. The stack will be
as is.

I just feel that we should know what the problem is that corrupts the stack
when saving and the original stack filename is appended with the tilde
character? Well, corruption is a big word here since the stack itself is
not corrupted or does not appear to be, but something is not right. It is
more a principle question now. As Curry mentioned, it happens elsewhere.

Is there any way to detect and catch an error when saving?

We are deviating a bit from the subject here which is "Windows Definer and
AV software". Still, there could be an issue related.

Saving either from the IDE or saving the compiled in any case (with or
without corruption) takes way too long time. My tests disabling Windows
Defender did not change this but I still do not rule out that there could
be something related to AV. It needs further testing, maybe also on other
machines.

And I can not ask clients to disable Windows Defender or change the
Defender settings anyway. I have no control over such machines and it is a
big company with some users using my app. They are mostly illiterate even
to open Windows Defender or they are not permitted to change any settings.

But generally said, I would also prefer to go with a proper installation
tool, read from and write to files in the AppData or Documents directory
and keep data separate from the stack -- even though if this is possible in
principle, it should not create problems also using stacks for data
storage. In many cases, it is a very simple straight-forward solution as
everything is easily accessible. A stack is just not a good database
solution if data is well structured and there is a lot of data.

Roland


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Jan 17 10:37:17 2019
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 16:37:17 +0100
Subject: windows defender =?UTF-8?Q?issues=3F=20=26=20other=20AV=20iss?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?ues?=
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g950W5iYPX_b3UfPtspbRirRtfOwxGyZwYNrSfZJ1rqRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g950W5iYPX_b3UfPtspbRirRtfOwxGyZwYNrSfZJ1rqRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82bd6efe0b8d26710fabf2cd728a6514@livecode.com>

On 2019-01-17 16:15, R.H. via use-livecode wrote:
> Is there any way to detect and catch an error when saving?

When the engine saves a stackfile when it has previously been saved to 
the same place...

It first moves the existing file at <filename> to <filename>~. If this 
step fails (e.g. because it can't move the file) then the save command 
stops and returns an error indicating that in 'the result'.

Next it attempts to save the stackfile to <filename>.

If there is an error whilst writing the stackfile then the save command 
stops, deletes the partially written stackfile at <filename>, moves the 
<filename>~ back to <filename> and returns an appropriate error in 'the 
result'.

If the engine crashes during saving, you will be left with a partially 
written <filename> and a copy of the stackfile as it was successfully 
last saved at <filename>~. Obviously in this case the engine has 
crashed, so there is no 'the result' to check.

If saving successfully completes, then the engine deletes <filename>~ 
and returns empty in 'the result'.

So - assuming the engine isn't crashing (although the long save time 
sounds odd - if you can submit a report/send a stackfile which takes 
ages to re-save we can take a look!), then you should be able to find 
out why the save is failing, or not happening as expected by checking 
'the result' after the save command which is initiating the save.

Hope this helps!

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jan 17 10:39:37 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 07:39:37 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <CAG1h1VCYnMrC7AFVOHxh+hRD16hf5Y5ceSnjYY2StHUr_vhKOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1h1VCYnMrC7AFVOHxh+hRD16hf5Y5ceSnjYY2StHUr_vhKOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a92b7d05-cbb7-83f9-af69-0203e3543ec5@fourthworld.com>

Lagi Pittas wrote:

 > A POS system that I wrote saved a few arrays and text on exit. It
 > worked beautifully in  99.9% % of the time but every so often the
 > user would start up and the file was corrupted some how - I  saw
 > the tilde file (exactly as word does (used to do it?), when view
 > extensions for known file type was enabled in windows.

Yes, that's one of the things I've enjoyed about using stack files for 
storage, the engine's automatic safe-write procedure that makes a backup 
of the old file before writing the new one.

Of course we could script our own routines to do that, but I don't mind 
a little convenience now and then.

Imagine how much worse those users would be without that safe-write.

 > In the end I just created another table in the sqlite database and
 > saved the encoded  arrays in there - never a problem since.

Did you ever find out why the engine was having difficulty writing those 
files?

What did "the result" show?

Beyond the implications for end-users is for all of us: if there's a bug 
that prevents writing stack files under certain circumstances, it will 
prevent us from using LiveCode under those circumstances.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From jay at livecode.org  Thu Jan 17 10:52:38 2019
From: jay at livecode.org (Jay)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:52:38 -0500
Subject: Checking xml string
Message-ID: <A3FFEF41-3E2D-4DFA-984F-D381BBBE0FD3@livecode.org>

The w3schools website has a simple XML validator that should be helpful.
https://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_validator.asp

Jay+



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 17 10:55:47 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 15:55:47 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g9_C9hMcwOPgcX=jrt3AeymMfgufqsEF=vU5kwL_wmBoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g9_C9hMcwOPgcX=jrt3AeymMfgufqsEF=vU5kwL_wmBoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCBCDAD2-3440-4A5C-A213-F87ACB4B9284@iotecdigital.com>

Right. The splash stack actually becomes an executable when saved as a standalone. Executables by nature cannot be modified. This is one of the reasons a splash stack approach makes a lot of sense, because now all your attacked stacks/substacks CAN be modified (given they are in a location the OS allows it and the end user has write permissions to that location.) 

Bob S


> On Jan 16, 2019, at 11:50 , R.H. via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Windows: Regarding the many replies to the question of allowing saving a
> stack file I would like to thank everybody for the answers by Matthias,
> Bob, Alex, Jacqueline, JJS ...
> 
> The problem was that a stack file used by a compiled splash stack does not
> save on some client's computers with Windows systems >= 7 and can only be
> run once leaving an unsaved file that is renamed with a tilde character.




From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 11:03:22 2019
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:03:22 +0100
Subject: AW: Script Editor Slow on Windows
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>

I must also agree that the SE (script editor) in Windows with latest
versions of LiveCode tends to be nearly unusable -- at least for
professional work.

Also, I turn off the messages box when using the SE but using a field
displaying messages instead. I am not using Navigator.

When I add a new handler, in the "end handler" statement of the previous
handler (the handler above) parts of the word "end" are deleted without me
doing anything. It happened not only once.

As many others here, I can also say that I have turned off most helpers
supposed to support with scripting. I type 10 x faster myself and make
corrections than using any of such helpers; they block my workflow even
though I still use automatic indentation. It will probably be a lot of work
to fix this for Windows so that it is not obstructing work instead of
supporting it.

Even I started using a separate text editor (Notepad++) for writing scripts
and I insert the script later into the SE.

The turn-around time between script changes and saving them is way too
long. Turning Defender off does not make a difference for me, but I need to
test more to come to a conclusion.

My main problem is that saving the stack while scripting may take three
times as much time than writing code. I feel like wasting time a lot
waiting for the save process to end. This does not happen with freshly
started stacks, but quickly after inserting more than just 100/200 lines of
code the problem appears. I did not exactly measure when the problem starts
to show up.

Also, I have the feeling that script errors in earlier versions of LiveCode
had been identified better. Regularly, the reported errors are simply
wrong. And often enough, the debugger does not see any error even though
there is one. Kind of a mystery.

I started to use strict mode declaring all variables. It helped a lot. It
should be recommended much more. It adds discipline and clarity and avoids
errors that are hard to detect otherwise. Even beginners can learn it
easily and understanding will even be better.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jan 17 11:08:43 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 08:08:43 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g950W5iYPX_b3UfPtspbRirRtfOwxGyZwYNrSfZJ1rqRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g950W5iYPX_b3UfPtspbRirRtfOwxGyZwYNrSfZJ1rqRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48784a20-a6c2-6201-bb09-3ceae62157e6@fourthworld.com>

R.H. wrote:

 > I just feel that we should know what the problem is that corrupts the
 > stack when saving and the original stack filename is appended with the
 > tilde character?

Agreed.  If the engine has a problem writing stack files, that would 
prevent us from using LiveCode.

The trick now is to pin down the cause of the issue you've experienced.

Since we don't see many reports here of errant stack saves, it seems 
this will require some sleuthing to pin down the specific combination of 
factors at play.


 > Is there any way to detect and catch an error when saving?

All I/O, whether socket or disk, whether stack files or any other 
format, is ideally accompanied by error-checking, e.g.:

   save stack tStackFilePath
   if the result is not empty then
      answer "Couldn't save document ("& sysError() &")"
      exit to top
   end if

The sysError function is especially useful there, delivering the error 
number the OS provides to describe the specific reason the file could 
not be written.


 > Saving either from the IDE or saving the compiled in any case (with or
 > without corruption) takes way too long time. My tests disabling
 > Windows Defender did not change this...

How much is "too long time", and what's in the file?

The number of cards may be particularly relevant for save time, perhaps 
number of substacks if there are many.  File size when written 
successfully would be good know too.


 > And I can not ask clients to disable Windows Defender or change the
 > Defender settings anyway. I have no control over such machines and
 > it is a big company with some users using my app. They are mostly
 > illiterate even to open Windows Defender or they are not permitted
 > to change any settings.

I'm with you, very disinclined to encourage users to turn off built-in 
security features.

I haven't done more research on this in weeks, but back when I did the 
many other apps affected by this were of such a broad variety no clear 
pattern was self-evident to me which would explain how LC could be among 
them.

As time permits I may do some more reading around the web to see how 
other vendors are coping with this.


 > But generally said, I would also prefer to go with a proper
 > installation tool, read from and write to files in the AppData or
 > Documents directory....

More than OS-recommended practice, often essential.  All user data 
should be in user space.


 > A stack is just not a good database solution if data is well
 > structured and there is a lot of data.

Agreed.  If you need a DB you should use a DB, which will have its own 
binary file format(s).  (But of course then the question is which type 
of DB: relational, document store, graph, or something else?)

There are almost as many file formats as their are document-producing 
applications. No singe file format can accommodate all possible types of 
apps, so we use the format best suited for the type of app we're making.


The bad thing about file formats is that there is no one-size-fits-all 
solution, so we have to make choices about what's best for the task at hand.

The great thing about file formats is that there is no one-size-fits-all 
solution, so we get to make choices about what's best for the task at hand.

:)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Jan 17 11:16:18 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:16:18 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <48784a20-a6c2-6201-bb09-3ceae62157e6@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g950W5iYPX_b3UfPtspbRirRtfOwxGyZwYNrSfZJ1rqRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<48784a20-a6c2-6201-bb09-3ceae62157e6@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <94808F51-ADEC-4DE2-B09E-5A47119A6F37@m-r-d.de>



> Am 17.01.2019 um 17:08 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> R.H. wrote:
> 
> > I just feel that we should know what the problem is that corrupts the
> > stack when saving and the original stack filename is appended with the
> > tilde character?
> 
> Agreed.  If the engine has a problem writing stack files, that would prevent us from using LiveCode.
> 
> The trick now is to pin down the cause of the issue you've experienced.
> 

Maybe it would be good at first to know how big in size the stack is that cannot be saved correctly.
Maybe it is really the size that cause this. 


> 





From gcanyon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 12:02:40 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 09:02:40 -0800
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
In-Reply-To: <AB86062E-D787-4F3C-A568-06757521A77A@hyperhh.de>
References: <AB86062E-D787-4F3C-A568-06757521A77A@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtpiPoYuYtskZQc9A=qtR23LQ869bkh5zXp-wmUJDAM0wA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 4:36 AM hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> > Geoff wrote:
> > using value():
> > the name of tID && "[" & the id of tID & "]"
> > using merge():
> > [[the name of tID]] - ([[the id of tID]])
> > (is there a way to escape the "["?)
>
> You could use with merge not only variables but also functions
> that are available for the script that calls merge:
>
> [[br(the id of tID)]]
>
> function br x
>   return "[" & x & "]"
> end br
>

True, and you've just given me an idea how to handle things like
font/styling tags. Something like:

function ifTag b,o,s,c
    if b then return o & s & c else return s
end ifTag


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jan 17 11:52:58 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 08:52:58 -0800
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV issues
In-Reply-To: <94808F51-ADEC-4DE2-B09E-5A47119A6F37@m-r-d.de>
References: <94808F51-ADEC-4DE2-B09E-5A47119A6F37@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <ab7f2e58-f5e0-8ab1-7240-a10b8ecbe786@fourthworld.com>

Matthias Rebbe wrote:

 >> Am 17.01.2019 um 17:08 schrieb Richard Gaskin:
 >>
 >> R.H. wrote:
 >> > I just feel that we should know what the problem is that corrupts
 >> > the stack when saving and the original stack filename is appended
 >> > with the tilde character?
 >>
 >> Agreed.  If the engine has a problem writing stack files, that would
 > prevent us from using LiveCode.
 >>
 >> The trick now is to pin down the cause of the issue you've
 > experienced.
 >
 > Maybe it would be good at first to know how big in size the stack is
 > that cannot be saved correctly.
 > Maybe it is really the size that cause this.

I believe the logical limit is 4GB, so I don't think size alone is the 
cause.

Complexity might be related, such as number of cards, but even then I 
have doubts.

I used to maintain an alternative LC Dictionary in which every language 
token was its own card - more than 3,000 at the time.  While saves would 
take several seconds, it didn't matter for that stack since that only 
happened once at build time; from then on it was used only for reads. 
Worked like a champ, successfully built on more than a hundred different 
system an aggregate of many thousands of times.

So far we have a few people (3?) who've reported issues with saves, in 
which all of the save issues, IIRC, were intermittent.

Meanwhile, the one thing all subscribers of this list have in common is 
that we use LiveCode, implying that we're able to use LiveCode because 
we can save our work.

So it seems there is something specific to a combination of factors, 
some possibly related to the engine, others possibly related to disk 
media and/or file system structures, and some possibly related to the OS 
or other processes.

Without a recipe for reliably reproducing the issue, this will be a 
tough nut to crack.

Hopefully as we gather more details a recipe will emerge.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From hh at hyperhh.de  Thu Jan 17 14:00:58 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 20:00:58 +0100
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
Message-ID: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>

> Geoff wrote:
> ... you've just given me an idea how to handle things like font/styling
> tags. Something like:
> function ifTag b,o,s,c
>     if b then return o & s & c else return s
> end ifTag

Allow me two remarks.

1. You could use, in order to avoid the check:

function tag s,o,c
    return o & s & c
end tag

And both, tag("inner") and tag("inner","left-","-right") work.

2. Also array-things work with merge, like [[a[1]]].




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Jan 17 14:17:14 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:17:14 -0500
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003601d4ae99$4415b690$cc4123b0$@net>

A couple of things I have observed in Win 10 LC 9.0.2.
1) Scroll wheel starts scrolling 100s of lines with one wheel rotation
detent. The only way to fix is to restart IDE.
2) SE Font is bold 10% of the time when opening LC. The only way to fix is
to restart IDE(maybe more than once).
3) After working in the IDE for a while then using breakpoints(I think),
every time I do a Ctrl S the IDE will do a variety of things. Not all at
once but sometimes all at once. The only way to fix is to restart IDE. Ctrl
S does these things sometimes:
 a) Opens up the message box and execute the last command.
 b) The confirm IDE save version dialog is not presented instead the last
answer dialog used is displayed without any buttons. Sometimes keyboard
returns will let it move on and complete the save maybe 50% of the time.
 c) The open message box has a one line field with a horizontal scrollbar
scroll appear and is not active and all other windows are locked up.
 d) Blank "new script editor" window opens and is non functional.
 e) All of the above but flashing and repeating 10s of times(sometimes
forever). Look like a 1970's light show. I get flashbacks just looking at
it. The message boxes and answer dialogs are flashing on and off with 100%
cpu.
4) IDE goes into a loop (now and again).
5) IDE quits (not often).
6) Save stacks take 10 seconds or more with the Windows "not responding" in
the top bar using 100% cpu until saving status box appears. The status box
is only up moment. The actual save operation take a 1/2 second after that.
7) Undo's are sketchy at best. Sometimes the work as expected other times
some other tab's script is changed.
8) Put too many lines into the message box and the same as Ctrl S issues
start to pop up.
9) The IDE goes into loop and locks up for no reason using 100% cpu.

I can't make any recipes for a QCC report. I can't see any pattern. Simple
stacks usually don't have any of the above problems except for the IDE
scroll wheel and font problems so my larger stacks are doing something that
is whacking out the IDE in v9 that did not happen pre v9.

All this being said I still get more done with LC than any other language I
have ever used so it's still a net large gain in productivity.
 
I don't know what I can do to help.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net





From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Jan 17 14:27:36 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:27:36 -0500
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003d01d4ae9a$b65c35c0$2314a140$@net>

I have seen this a few times. I observed it's the return after typing
"command someCommand". I also had "return key" start deleting code at the
top of the script tab. I have not seen this in 9.0.2 GM yet but did see it
9.0.1 and 9.0.2 DPs and RCs.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of R.H. via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 11:03 AM
To: LiveCode Runrev.Com
Cc: R.H.
Subject: AW: Script Editor Slow on Windows


When I add a new handler, in the "end handler" statement of the previous
handler (the handler above) parts of the word "end" are deleted without me
doing anything. It happened not only once.




From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Jan 17 14:26:01 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:26:01 +0000
Subject: HTMLTEXT of a Browser Widget in Properties Inspector?
Message-ID: <2BEB0840-1EFF-458D-A1D8-44600C57F7E1@hindu.org>

I have a strange phenomena

1) The htmltext of the browser widget does not seem to be available in the Properties Inspection
		a. I could have sworn there was link/field to it in previous version of LC
		b. It is not available in a custom property

2) I set the htmltext of widget "loader" to empty.

3) Set the htmltext of widget "loader" to a field (using HH's method, it is good for editing)

4) Save the stack, reload,  there is  a "flash" of *some* htmltext (as it were caching in the background) then it loads the  field, which is different? 

I had some CSS wrong in the first HTMLTEXT and corrected in later? Now I still see the "cached" version that is quickly replaced by my code 

set htmltext of widget "Loader" to fld "loaderHTML"

Where is the previous htmltext of the browser widget hiding?

 


From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Jan 17 14:56:56 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:56:56 -0500
Subject: HTMLTEXT of a Browser Widget in Properties Inspector?
In-Reply-To: <2BEB0840-1EFF-458D-A1D8-44600C57F7E1@hindu.org>
References: <2BEB0840-1EFF-458D-A1D8-44600C57F7E1@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKsQbGAfXgNEyVv6=5hzLv8J_TmJLPT0v+G6Xyvw-CZoQ@mail.gmail.com>

I can't help you but thanks for the tip to ask for the htmltext property
when i need the page code.

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:26 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have a strange phenomena
>
> 1) The htmltext of the browser widget does not seem to be available in the
> Properties Inspection
>                 a. I could have sworn there was link/field to it in
> previous version of LC
>                 b. It is not available in a custom property
>
> 2) I set the htmltext of widget "loader" to empty.
>
> 3) Set the htmltext of widget "loader" to a field (using HH's method, it
> is good for editing)
>
> 4) Save the stack, reload,  there is  a "flash" of *some* htmltext (as it
> were caching in the background) then it loads the  field, which is
> different?
>
> I had some CSS wrong in the first HTMLTEXT and corrected in later? Now I
> still see the "cached" version that is quickly replaced by my code
>
> set htmltext of widget "Loader" to fld "loaderHTML"
>
> Where is the previous htmltext of the browser widget hiding?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hh at hyperhh.de  Thu Jan 17 15:16:41 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:16:41 +0100
Subject: HTMLTEXT of a Browser Widget in Properties Inspector?
Message-ID: <5CE9596C-58F3-488C-895E-4715C671136D@hyperhh.de>

Browser widget:

A. URL
There are some problems with caching if one sets the URL and reloads.
Then the chance is really big that you get fooled by the cache.

I tried even to delete the widget and create a new one with the same URL.
Also unloadig the url doesn't help.
I couldn't catch with several traps a cache file on disk, probably it
is in RAM. This is confirmed by the fact that a restart of LiveCode helps.

** It would be a great feature if it were possible to delete the cache. **

B. HTMLtext
But I have no problem with the htmltext of the widget.
The widget saves the current htmltext with its properties (in the stack)
whenever you save the stack. And it loadsit whenever you open the card
conating the widget.
The htmltext is not the content of the widget after you were doing some
javascript in it. It is what you did set as htmltext.

What I usually do is
= set the htmltext to empty on closeCard
= set it again on (pre)openCard.

For the loader widget you could on preopenCard
1. hide the widget
2. set the htmltext
3. wait 3 ticks with messages
   (the widget needs some time for setting its property array)
4. display the widget

p.s. The htmltext was never visible in the property inspector but you can
always look at it by

put the htmltext of widget <widgetName> into fld 1

[Don't put it into msg if you have inline images or LC will become slow.]





From gcanyon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 15:45:38 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 12:45:38 -0800
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
In-Reply-To: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 11:01 AM hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> > Geoff wrote:
> > ... you've just given me an idea how to handle things like font/styling
> > tags. Something like:
> > function ifTag b,o,s,c
> >     if b then return o & s & c else return s
> > end ifTag
>
> Allow me two remarks.
>
> 1. You could use, in order to avoid the check:
>
> function tag s,o,c
>     return o & s & c
> end tag
>
> And both, tag("inner") and tag("inner","left-","-right") work.
>

I'm thinking about situations where the tags are optional, so something
like:

ifTag(word 1 of tID is "group","<b>",the name of tID,"</b>")

I'd have to do a timing test to see whether it's more costly to do the
function call or perform the test twice. And of course in this instance it
would be easy enough to simply use:

<?if word 1 of tID is "group" then return "<b>", & the name of tID & "</b>"
else return the name of tID?>

But it would become unwieldy for more complex strings.

>
> 2. Also array-things work with merge, like [[a[1]]].
>

Yep, definitely planning to take advantage of this if possible:
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/21


From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Jan 17 17:27:10 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:27:10 -0500
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>

6 years with LC...never used the value or merge commands ..... never even
came across them.

mind blown.

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 3:46 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 11:01 AM hh via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > > Geoff wrote:
> > > ... you've just given me an idea how to handle things like font/styling
> > > tags. Something like:
> > > function ifTag b,o,s,c
> > >     if b then return o & s & c else return s
> > > end ifTag
> >
> > Allow me two remarks.
> >
> > 1. You could use, in order to avoid the check:
> >
> > function tag s,o,c
> >     return o & s & c
> > end tag
> >
> > And both, tag("inner") and tag("inner","left-","-right") work.
> >
>
> I'm thinking about situations where the tags are optional, so something
> like:
>
> ifTag(word 1 of tID is "group","<b>",the name of tID,"</b>")
>
> I'd have to do a timing test to see whether it's more costly to do the
> function call or perform the test twice. And of course in this instance it
> would be easy enough to simply use:
>
> <?if word 1 of tID is "group" then return "<b>", & the name of tID & "</b>"
> else return the name of tID?>
>
> But it would become unwieldy for more complex strings.
>
> >
> > 2. Also array-things work with merge, like [[a[1]]].
> >
>
> Yep, definitely planning to take advantage of this if possible:
> https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/21
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Jan 17 19:40:05 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 00:40:05 +0000
Subject: HTMLTEXT of a Browser Widget in Properties Inspector?
In-Reply-To: <5CE9596C-58F3-488C-895E-4715C671136D@hyperhh.de>
References: <5CE9596C-58F3-488C-895E-4715C671136D@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <0798D9EE-239F-4261-99D8-5CB02BD7F972@hindu.org>

Wow! That?s look like a minefield!

 I vote to this: should we make a enhancement request?

    ** It would be a great feature if it were possible to delete the cache. **

I *finally* go the old htmltext/cache to go  went away. But it too several reboots and I tested on my Android etc.  until it "becames" the new htmltext. BUT that "cache" seems to be persistent... and you have a "flicker" as the "cache" htmltext seems to load and then the my code set it.  

So, now the question is... is the htmltext of browser widget a saved property?

Hmm. I turned off

--set htmltext of widget "Loader" to fld "loaderHTML"

[Save the scripts/stack]
 
Reboot Livecode...Ahha! Gotcha! 

The widget "Loader" shows the htmltext as if it were are persistence property. But then "what?!" it suddenly disappears, leaving the widget "Loader" empty....blank white space (until on browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL hides it and show the widget "body" )

So that why it "flashes" on start up.  We see 
a) some "mysterious" htmlText "momentary" persistent property 
b) which is suddenly replaced with 

set htmltext of widget "Loader" to fld "loaderHTML"

So that makes two enhancement requests:

1 ** It would be a great feature if it were possible to delete the cache. **
2.   give the option to make the htmlText a browser widget  a persistence property (so that is doesn't disappear after a moment) AND
 if that "check box" is selected, make it to available to the developer just like the content of a field.

BR


hh wrote:

    Browser widget:
    
    A. URL
    There are some problems with caching if one sets the URL and reloads.
    Then the chance is really big that you get fooled by the cache.
    
    I tried even to delete the widget and create a new one with the same URL.
    Also unloadig the url doesn't help.
    I couldn't catch with several traps a cache file on disk, probably it
    is in RAM. This is confirmed by the fact that a restart of LiveCode helps.
    
    ** It would be a great feature if it were possible to delete the cache. **


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 00:48:31 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:48:31 -0800
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:27 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> 6 years with LC...never used the value or merge commands ..... never even
> came across them.
>
> mind blown.
>

I was in the same position with merge(). If you haven't seen it already,
format() has some pretty amazing capabilities as well.


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 03:01:38 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 08:01:38 +0000
Subject: Feature request: merge function!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>

I would love to be able to change the characters that merge uses -
especially from ?[[..]]? to ?{{...}}?.

Quite a lot of templating uses curly brackets - and I especially want to
use it for wiki style templates which can?t use square brackets as they are
used for internal links.

Not sure of the most elegant syntax, but we could add some Paramus without
breaking anything.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jan 18 04:33:55 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 01:33:55 -0800
Subject: Feature request: merge function!
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <304e170f-fced-03c5-1bb1-138b9e71c756@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > I would love to be able to change the characters that merge uses -
 > especially from ?[[..]]? to ?{{...}}?.
 >
 > Quite a lot of templating uses curly brackets - and I especially want
 > to use it for wiki style templates which can?t use square brackets as
 > they are used for internal links.

Only LC can process the LC-specific code inside of its brackets.  With 
the current setup it allows LC to be used very gracefully as a 
preprocessor with curly-bracket-based systems, so LC processes its stuff 
without stepping on directives for other processors.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From keith.clarke at me.com  Fri Jan 18 04:40:57 2019
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:40:57 +0000
Subject: Feature request: merge function!
In-Reply-To: <304e170f-fced-03c5-1bb1-138b9e71c756@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<304e170f-fced-03c5-1bb1-138b9e71c756@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E32F38FE-FF4D-4FFD-8F76-D997437478B5@me.com>

I don?t know the setting but might a line or two of preprocessing allow LC to replace the (specific) strings in the template with curly brackets into ones with square brackets for processing?
Best,
Keith   

> On 18 Jan 2019, at 09:33, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> David Bovill wrote:
> 
> > I would love to be able to change the characters that merge uses -
> > especially from ?[[..]]? to ?{{...}}?.
> >
> > Quite a lot of templating uses curly brackets - and I especially want
> > to use it for wiki style templates which can?t use square brackets as
> > they are used for internal links.
> 
> Only LC can process the LC-specific code inside of its brackets.  With the current setup it allows LC to be used very gracefully as a preprocessor with curly-bracket-based systems, so LC processes its stuff without stepping on directives for other processors.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark at livecode.com  Fri Jan 18 06:22:45 2019
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:22:45 +0100
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>

On 2019-01-18 06:48, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> I was in the same position with merge(). If you haven't seen it 
> already,
> format() has some pretty amazing capabilities as well.

To answer your question about escaping - yes there is:

   [[[]] -> [
   [[]]] -> ]

Also the merge function has another feature (which I think was actually 
undocumented for a long time - although, for once, it is there now!):

   1) "[[ 1 + 2 ]]" -> 3 (function / expression evaluation)
   2) "<? if 1 + 2 is 3 then return true else return false ?>" -> 
(command / statement evaluation)

Basically (1) does the equivalent of 'value()' on the string enclosed in 
[[ / ]]; whilst (2) does the equivalent of 'do <script>' on the string 
enclosed in <? and ?>.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From andre at andregarzia.com  Fri Jan 18 06:26:03 2019
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Alves Garzia)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:26:03 +0000
Subject: Feature request: merge function!
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23e05277-c218-eb16-db67-242470d01571@andregarzia.com>

eheheheheh let me throw this hack in here and run


function davidsMerge pText

 ? replace "[[" with "[safe[" in pText

 ? replace "]]" with "]safe]" in pText

 ? replace "{{" with "[[" in pText

 ? replace "}}" with "]]" in pText

 ? get the merge of pText

 ? replace "[safe[" with "[[" in it

 ? replace "]safe]" with "]]" in it

 ? return it

end davidsMerge


Done!

On 18/01/2019 08:01, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> I would love to be able to change the characters that merge uses -
> especially from ?[[..]]? to ?{{...}}?.
>
> Quite a lot of templating uses curly brackets - and I especially want to
> use it for wiki style templates which can?t use square brackets as they are
> used for internal links.
>
> Not sure of the most elegant syntax, but we could add some Paramus without
> breaking anything.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andre at andregarzia.com  Fri Jan 18 06:44:34 2019
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Alves Garzia)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:44:34 +0000
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <003601d4ae99$4415b690$cc4123b0$@net>
References: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<003601d4ae99$4415b690$cc4123b0$@net>
Message-ID: <336528b1-031c-d52b-5926-c3087744bd0c@andregarzia.com>

Ralph,

The IDE is so bad under windows that sometimes I dust off my 2013 
macbook air just to use it there for some hours and fix whatever I need 
to fix in my projects.

You're right, there is no recipe, it is "degradation over time" and time 
in here is measured in minutes and few hours. This happens regardless of 
plugins and fancy features such as autocompletion. Here in my install I 
face the following problems:

* script editor lag. I am a slow typer and yet sometimes, the editor 
will lag a lot behind my coding.

* script editor missing keystrokes. The lag above sometimes make the 
editor lose keystrokes causing my code to be broken.

* IDE fails to drag and drop controls or respond to shortcuts. Dragging 
tools from the tools palette into my stacks sometimes doesn't work. 
Selecting a control and using common keyboard shortcuts to open scripts 
or inspectors also doesn't work.

This makes using LC a pain and there is no recipe. I've even picked a 
plain new install without any plugin and it still happens over time. My 
machine is a Surface Pro 4 running Window 10, there is no bloatware or 
machine problem, it is all made nice by Microsoft, I don't face this 
kind of problem in any other language or IDE I use here.

I suspect that some IDE internal event message or loop is blocking but 
there is no way to tell.

On 17/01/2019 19:17, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> A couple of things I have observed in Win 10 LC 9.0.2.
> 1) Scroll wheel starts scrolling 100s of lines with one wheel rotation
> detent. The only way to fix is to restart IDE.
> 2) SE Font is bold 10% of the time when opening LC. The only way to fix is
> to restart IDE(maybe more than once).
> 3) After working in the IDE for a while then using breakpoints(I think),
> every time I do a Ctrl S the IDE will do a variety of things. Not all at
> once but sometimes all at once. The only way to fix is to restart IDE. Ctrl
> S does these things sometimes:
>   a) Opens up the message box and execute the last command.
>   b) The confirm IDE save version dialog is not presented instead the last
> answer dialog used is displayed without any buttons. Sometimes keyboard
> returns will let it move on and complete the save maybe 50% of the time.
>   c) The open message box has a one line field with a horizontal scrollbar
> scroll appear and is not active and all other windows are locked up.
>   d) Blank "new script editor" window opens and is non functional.
>   e) All of the above but flashing and repeating 10s of times(sometimes
> forever). Look like a 1970's light show. I get flashbacks just looking at
> it. The message boxes and answer dialogs are flashing on and off with 100%
> cpu.
> 4) IDE goes into a loop (now and again).
> 5) IDE quits (not often).
> 6) Save stacks take 10 seconds or more with the Windows "not responding" in
> the top bar using 100% cpu until saving status box appears. The status box
> is only up moment. The actual save operation take a 1/2 second after that.
> 7) Undo's are sketchy at best. Sometimes the work as expected other times
> some other tab's script is changed.
> 8) Put too many lines into the message box and the same as Ctrl S issues
> start to pop up.
> 9) The IDE goes into loop and locks up for no reason using 100% cpu.
>
> I can't make any recipes for a QCC report. I can't see any pattern. Simple
> stacks usually don't have any of the above problems except for the IDE
> scroll wheel and font problems so my larger stacks are doing something that
> is whacking out the IDE in v9 that did not happen pre v9.
>
> All this being said I still get more done with LC than any other language I
> have ever used so it's still a net large gain in productivity.
>   
> I don't know what I can do to help.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Jan 18 07:52:37 2019
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 13:52:37 +0100
Subject: Feature request: merge function!
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c2e208f411d328bd8878475846f4fd0b@livecode.com>

On 2019-01-18 09:01, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> I would love to be able to change the characters that merge uses -
> especially from ?[[..]]? to ?{{...}}?.
> 
> Quite a lot of templating uses curly brackets - and I especially want 
> to
> use it for wiki style templates which can?t use square brackets as they 
> are
> used for internal links.
> 
> Not sure of the most elegant syntax, but we could add some Paramus 
> without
> breaking anything.

The current string scanning which the merge function relies on 5 
codeunits (not characters!):

   - expression start ('[')
   - expression finish (']')
   - script start ('<')
   - script finish ('>')
   - script marker ('?')

With constraints:
   - expression start != expression end
   - script start != script finish != script marker
   - expression start != script start
   - expression finish != script finish

So the easiest / simplest least-likelihood-of-breaking-anything approach 
would be to add an optional parameterization to the merge function 
consisting of a string between 2 and 5 codeunits:

   - string of 2 codeunits: change expression start / finish, leave 
script markers the same
   - string of 3 codeunits: change script start / finish / marker, leave 
expression markers the same
   - string of 4 codeunits: change expression start / finish and script 
start / finish, leave script marker the same
   - string of 5 codeunits: change all characters

In all cases it would need to be an error if the above constraints don't 
hold.

For example...

To get David's wiki-safe option you'd just parameterize by "{}".

Similarly, merge is not completely XML safe - <?xml version="1.0"> is a 
valid XML directive *and* a value LCS command call (xml version = "1.0") 
- so to make that better you could parameterize by "<>|" (<| not being a 
valid sequence except in CDATA, which you can elect not to use by entity 
escaping chars instead).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 09:52:24 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:52:24 +0000
Subject: Feature request: merge function!
In-Reply-To: <c2e208f411d328bd8878475846f4fd0b@livecode.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioMJn-79ZgY_SJG-ea0s-Nd46uPN7LbOcYks_979oSOBOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<c2e208f411d328bd8878475846f4fd0b@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMGp_b3orBnoYqdhhRZLTkwFb2WrTrwDW_=Ww-S=vnBkw@mail.gmail.com>

That would be great Mark :)

Andre the general function I use for munging text uses regular expressions
as my head exploded long ago with too many custom string munging functions
:)

*command* fedwiki_MergeCurlyArray @templateArray, itemID, curlyArray
>
*put* fedwiki_GetStoryItemText (templateArray, itemID) into itemText
>
text_MergeCurly itemText, curlyArray

fedwiki_SetStoryItemText templateArray, itemID, itemText

*end* fedwiki_MergeCurlyArray
>


> *command* text_MergeCurly @someText, curlyArray
>
*repeat* for each key curlyLabel in curlyArray
>
*put* curlyArray [curlyLabel] into curlyReplacement
>
*put* "(\{\{\s*" & curlyLabel & "\s*\}\})" into someReg
>
text_StripReg someText, someReg, curlyReplacement

*end*
> *repeat*

*end* text_MergeCurly


*command* text_StripReg @wikiText, someReg, pReplaceText
>
*local* refStart, refEnd
>
*put* 0 into indexNum
>
*repeat*

*get* matchchunk (wikiText, someReg, sNum, eNum)
>
*if* sNum is not a number
> *then*

*put* the result into testResult
>
*-- breakpoint*

*exit* *repeat*
> *-- regExp bug???*

*end*
> *if*

*if* it is true
> *then*

*-- this bit not needed (remove for speed)*

*-- put char refStart to refEnd of wikiText into someTest*

*put* sNum into stripResultArray [indexNum]["sNum"]
>
*put* eNum into stripResultArray [indexNum]["eNum"]
>
*add* 1 to indexNum
>
*--*

*-- delete char sNum to eNum of wikiText*

*put* pReplaceText into char sNum to eNum of wikiText
>
*else*

*exit*
> *repeat*

*end*
> *if*

*end*
> *repeat*

*return* stripResultArray
>
*end* text_StripReg


I'm sure it could be greatly improved. What I like about the regExp
approach is the portability between languages. It also allows the slow
building up of quality regExp for specific purposes without constantly
changing the underlying code. I'm sure there are faster and leaner
approaches though.

An extension to merge() along the lines that Mark suggested would cut down
on quite a lot of the use-cases i've had over the years - and naturally if
would be faster than doing it in script.


On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 at 12:53, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2019-01-18 09:01, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> > I would love to be able to change the characters that merge uses -
> > especially from ?[[..]]? to ?{{...}}?.
> >
> > Quite a lot of templating uses curly brackets - and I especially want
> > to
> > use it for wiki style templates which can?t use square brackets as they
> > are
> > used for internal links.
> >
> > Not sure of the most elegant syntax, but we could add some Paramus
> > without
> > breaking anything.
>
> The current string scanning which the merge function relies on 5
> codeunits (not characters!):
>
>    - expression start ('[')
>    - expression finish (']')
>    - script start ('<')
>    - script finish ('>')
>    - script marker ('?')
>
> With constraints:
>    - expression start != expression end
>    - script start != script finish != script marker
>    - expression start != script start
>    - expression finish != script finish
>
> So the easiest / simplest least-likelihood-of-breaking-anything approach
> would be to add an optional parameterization to the merge function
> consisting of a string between 2 and 5 codeunits:
>
>    - string of 2 codeunits: change expression start / finish, leave
> script markers the same
>    - string of 3 codeunits: change script start / finish / marker, leave
> expression markers the same
>    - string of 4 codeunits: change expression start / finish and script
> start / finish, leave script marker the same
>    - string of 5 codeunits: change all characters
>
> In all cases it would need to be an error if the above constraints don't
> hold.
>
> For example...
>
> To get David's wiki-safe option you'd just parameterize by "{}".
>
> Similarly, merge is not completely XML safe - <?xml version="1.0"> is a
> valid XML directive *and* a value LCS command call (xml version = "1.0")
> - so to make that better you could parameterize by "<>|" (<| not being a
> valid sequence except in CDATA, which you can elect not to use by entity
> escaping chars instead).
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hh at hyperhh.de  Fri Jan 18 10:35:09 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:35:09 +0100
Subject: Feature request: merge function!
Message-ID: <938DA639-ABF6-4A64-92D6-AFD5EBED18B6@hyperhh.de>

Until parametrization is implemented for LC 9 one could use
the following generalization of Andre's method for David.
This is still fast enough because replace is so fast in LC.

David would call merge2(string, "{{", "}}").
To make merge xml safe use e.g. merge2(string,,,"<1>","<2>")

Of course you have to make all variables that you use in string
to local script variables (with that accessible by merge2)
[OR split merge2 into 3 parts: beforeMerge, merge, afterMerge].

-- The following works in LC 6/7/8/9.
-- t_1 is the new opening tag replacing [[
-- t_2 is the new closing tag replacing ]]
-- t_3 is the new opening tag replacing <?
-- t_4 is the new closing tag replacing ?>
-- Leave a t_x empty to use the merge-opening/closing tag.
--> The t_i+1 must not contain t_1 to t_i for all i <--

function merge2 s,t_1,t_2,t_3,t_4 
 put t_1 is not empty into c1
 put t_2 is not empty into c2
 put t_3 is not empty into c3
 put t_4 is not empty into c4
 if c1 then
    replace "[[" with numToChar(1) in s
    replace t_1 with "[[" in s
 end if
 if c2 then
    replace "]]" with numToChar(2) in s
    replace t_2 with "]]" in s
 end if
 if c3 then
    replace "<?" with numToChar(3) in s
    replace t_3 with "<?" in s
 end if
 if c4 then
    replace "?>" with numToChar(4) in s
    replace t_4 with "?>" in s
 end if
 put merge(s) into s
 if c1 then replace numToChar(1) with "[[" in s
 if c2 then replace numToChar(2) with "]]" in s
 if c3 then replace numToChar(3) with "<?" in s
 if c4 then replace numToChar(4) with "?>" in s
 return s
end merge2



From hh at hyperhh.de  Fri Jan 18 10:59:36 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:59:36 +0100
Subject: HTMLTEXT of a Browser Widget in Properties Inspector?
Message-ID: <F37BD1B7-920B-4D24-B28D-324B86F3EA5C@hyperhh.de>

> BR wrote:
> and you have a "flicker" as the "cache" htmltext seems to load
> and then the my code set it.  
> 
> So, now the question is... is the htmltext of browser widget
> a saved property?

I already answered both in my last post! Especially:

= To avoid flicker hide the widget until it is ready (a few ticks)
= The htmltext *is* a persistent property *of the widget*, saved with
the stack.

The htmltext are instructions for libbrowser to build the native display.
It is NOT a saved videobuffer of the current native display.
So it takes some time (a few ticks) to build this native display again,
especially if there are images to load.

Properties of widgets are user visible if the author implemented this.
To make the htmltext of the widget user visible is no good idea
because this would make the property inspector (mostly) unresponsive.



From hh at hyperhh.de  Fri Jan 18 10:23:45 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:23:45 +0100
Subject: Feature request: merge function!
Message-ID: <CF1ED4D2-3B95-4304-9258-64448F6B5702@hyperhh.de>

Until parametrization is implemented for LC 9 one could use
the following generalization of Andre's method for David.
This is still fast enough because replace is so fast in LC.

David would call merge2(string, "{{", "}}").
To make merge xml safe use e.g. merge2(string,,,"<1>","<2>")

Of course you have to make all variables that you use in string
to local script variables (with that accessible by merge2)
[OR split merge2 into 3 parts: beforeMerge, merge, afterMerge].

-- The following works in LC 6/7/8/9.
-- t_1 is the new opening tag replacing [[
-- t_2 is the new closing tag replacing ]]
-- t_3 is the new opening tag replacing <?
-- t_4 is the new closing tag replacing ?>
-- Leave a t_x empty to use the merge-opening/closing tag.
--> The t_i+1 must not contain t_1 to t_i for all i <--

function merge2 s,t_1,t_2,t_3,t_4 
  put t_1 is not empty into c1
  put t_2 is not empty into c2
  put t_3 is not empty into c3
  put t_4 is not empty into c4
  if c1 then
     replace "[[" with numToChar(1) in s
     replace t_1 with "[[" in s
  end if
  if c2 then
     replace "]]" with numToChar(2) in s
     replace t_2 with "]]" in s
  end if
  if c3 then
     replace "<?" with numToChar(3) in s
     replace t_3 with "<?" in s
  end if
  if c4 then
     replace "?>" with numToChar(4) in s
     replace t_4 with "?>" in s
  end if
  put merge(s) into s
  if c1 then replace numToChar(1) with "[[" in s
  if c2 then replace numToChar(2) with "]]" in s
  if c3 then replace numToChar(3) with "<?" in s
  if c4 then replace numToChar(4) with "?>" in s
  return s
end merge2



From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Fri Jan 18 13:33:57 2019
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 10:33:57 -0800
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
In-Reply-To: <85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>

I?m confused. Can someone explain why merge function exists when the put function works just as well?

merge( [[ 1 + 2 ]] = 3)
vs
put 1 + 2 && ?= 3?

What is it that merge can do that a put cannot do? Just asking because I don?t want LiveCode to end up like Perl where there are so many completely different ways to do the exact same thing that one person?s perl code can be unreadable to another equally talented Perl coder.

Kee
 




From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 13:57:27 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 10:57:27 -0800
Subject: The merge function is awesome!
In-Reply-To: <85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtoRhfF+S7QV5R4aLWFPKCF+h0OqwL0H1460MuMupcQ3fw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:23 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2019-01-18 06:48, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote:
> > I was in the same position with merge(). If you haven't seen it
> > already,
> > format() has some pretty amazing capabilities as well.
>
> To answer your question about escaping - yes there is:
>
>    [[[]] -> [
>    [[]]] -> ]
>

Ha, so my string ends up as:

[[the name of tID]] - [[[]][[the id of tID]][[]]]

That's a lot of square brackets!


> Also the merge function has another feature (which I think was actually
> undocumented for a long time - although, for once, it is there now!):
>
>    1) "[[ 1 + 2 ]]" -> 3 (function / expression evaluation)
>    2) "<? if 1 + 2 is 3 then return true else return false ?>" ->
> (command / statement evaluation)
>
> Basically (1) does the equivalent of 'value()' on the string enclosed in
> [[ / ]]; whilst (2) does the equivalent of 'do <script>' on the string
> enclosed in <? and ?>.
>

(2) is not documented well at all. I had to go to
http://newsletters.livecode.com/august/issue55/newsletter2.php to figure it
out.


From dfepstein at comcast.net  Fri Jan 18 13:59:16 2019
From: dfepstein at comcast.net (DAVID Epstein)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 13:59:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Multiple regression in LiveCode?
Message-ID: <717699875.131728.1547837957658@connect.xfinity.com>

Has anyone written a LiveCode function that will take a table of 2 or more independent variables and 1 dependent variable, and return coefficients, intercept, and standard errors for a multiple regression?


David Epstein

From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 14:16:28 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:16:28 -0800
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
In-Reply-To: <25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
	<25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqC7qgnKft_wajt-aeprrq+WE2Qsm-CbhF6BG=vJEcgdg@mail.gmail.com>

There's some overlap, but merge has (at least) one feature that put
doesn't: the ability to run code within its statement. A simple example:

    put merge("The coin came up <?if random(2) = 1 then return heads else
return tails?>.")

The equivalent might be:

    put "The coin came up" && item random(2) of "heads,tails" & "."

But consider this:

   put 10 into myVar
   put merge("The sum of the numbers from 1 to [[myVar]] is <?put 0 into
myTotal; repeat with i = 1 to myVar; add i to myTotal; end repeat; return
myTotal?>.")

There is no way to do that with a simple "put". You could unroll the code,
but for instances like what I'm planning to do with Navigator, that would
be totally unworkable.


From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Fri Jan 18 14:27:57 2019
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:27:57 -0800
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
In-Reply-To: <25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
	<25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <77AF2F99-64C4-4756-92F7-ECEDD8B09F38@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Folks,
I?ve been following this discussion, barely. I don?t use merge, but when I need to form a command from several variables, I create the command as a text string and use do to execute it. 

So, when I look it up in the dictionary, I see a fairly simplistic description with nothing resembling the code being discussed in this thread. 

So I?m thinking: ?What?s with the square brackets??

I haven?t looked at the link that Kee posted, (I?m having breakfast at the beach)  but would like to make a request for the dictionary entry to be expanded. 

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://ed.earthednet.org

> On Jan 18, 2019, at 10:33 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m confused. Can someone explain why merge function exists when the put function works just as well?
> 
> merge( [[ 1 + 2 ]] = 3)
> vs
> put 1 + 2 && ?= 3?
> 
> What is it that merge can do that a put cannot do? Just asking because I don?t want LiveCode to end up like Perl where there are so many completely different ways to do the exact same thing that one person?s perl code can be unreadable to another equally talented Perl coder.
> 
> Kee
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jjs at krutt.org  Fri Jan 18 14:07:26 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 20:07:26 +0100
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <336528b1-031c-d52b-5926-c3087744bd0c@andregarzia.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<003601d4ae99$4415b690$cc4123b0$@net>
	<336528b1-031c-d52b-5926-c3087744bd0c@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <62b67b8f-b67a-91ab-11e9-42d1fd9c5698@krutt.org>

i don't have does issues on my win10 and lc902

i added .rev and .livecode to be excluded in Windows Defecnder and added 
the livecode.exe to be excluded.

the thing i do see is that the line nr's in the scripteditor sometimes 
seem to stall while i scroll up or down the script. switching to another 
script and back seems to refresh it.

Another thing i do is before opening an other project stack to work on, 
closing the IDE and restart it

Op 18-1-2019 om 12:44 schreef Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode:
> Ralph,
>
> The IDE is so bad under windows that sometimes I dust off my 2013 
> macbook air just to use it there for some hours and fix whatever I 
> need to fix in my projects.
>
> You're right, there is no recipe, it is "degradation over time" and 
> time in here is measured in minutes and few hours. This happens 
> regardless of plugins and fancy features such as autocompletion. Here 
> in my install I face the following problems:
>
> * script editor lag. I am a slow typer and yet sometimes, the editor 
> will lag a lot behind my coding.
>
> * script editor missing keystrokes. The lag above sometimes make the 
> editor lose keystrokes causing my code to be broken.
>
> * IDE fails to drag and drop controls or respond to shortcuts. 
> Dragging tools from the tools palette into my stacks sometimes doesn't 
> work. Selecting a control and using common keyboard shortcuts to open 
> scripts or inspectors also doesn't work.
>
> This makes using LC a pain and there is no recipe. I've even picked a 
> plain new install without any plugin and it still happens over time. 
> My machine is a Surface Pro 4 running Window 10, there is no bloatware 
> or machine problem, it is all made nice by Microsoft, I don't face 
> this kind of problem in any other language or IDE I use here.
>
> I suspect that some IDE internal event message or loop is blocking but 
> there is no way to tell.
>
> On 17/01/2019 19:17, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
>> A couple of things I have observed in Win 10 LC 9.0.2.
>> 1) Scroll wheel starts scrolling 100s of lines with one wheel rotation
>> detent. The only way to fix is to restart IDE.
>> 2) SE Font is bold 10% of the time when opening LC. The only way to 
>> fix is
>> to restart IDE(maybe more than once).
>> 3) After working in the IDE for a while then using breakpoints(I think),
>> every time I do a Ctrl S the IDE will do a variety of things. Not all at
>> once but sometimes all at once. The only way to fix is to restart 
>> IDE. Ctrl
>> S does these things sometimes:
>> ? a) Opens up the message box and execute the last command.
>> ? b) The confirm IDE save version dialog is not presented instead the 
>> last
>> answer dialog used is displayed without any buttons. Sometimes keyboard
>> returns will let it move on and complete the save maybe 50% of the time.
>> ? c) The open message box has a one line field with a horizontal 
>> scrollbar
>> scroll appear and is not active and all other windows are locked up.
>> ? d) Blank "new script editor" window opens and is non functional.
>> ? e) All of the above but flashing and repeating 10s of times(sometimes
>> forever). Look like a 1970's light show. I get flashbacks just 
>> looking at
>> it. The message boxes and answer dialogs are flashing on and off with 
>> 100%
>> cpu.
>> 4) IDE goes into a loop (now and again).
>> 5) IDE quits (not often).
>> 6) Save stacks take 10 seconds or more with the Windows "not 
>> responding" in
>> the top bar using 100% cpu until saving status box appears. The 
>> status box
>> is only up moment. The actual save operation take a 1/2 second after 
>> that.
>> 7) Undo's are sketchy at best. Sometimes the work as expected other 
>> times
>> some other tab's script is changed.
>> 8) Put too many lines into the message box and the same as Ctrl S issues
>> start to pop up.
>> 9) The IDE goes into loop and locks up for no reason using 100% cpu.
>>
>> I can't make any recipes for a QCC report. I can't see any pattern. 
>> Simple
>> stacks usually don't have any of the above problems except for the IDE
>> scroll wheel and font problems so my larger stacks are doing 
>> something that
>> is whacking out the IDE in v9 that did not happen pre v9.
>>
>> All this being said I still get more done with LC than any other 
>> language I
>> have ever used so it's still a net large gain in productivity.
>> ? I don't know what I can do to help.
>>
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jjs at krutt.org  Fri Jan 18 14:21:03 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 20:21:03 +0100
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <62b67b8f-b67a-91ab-11e9-42d1fd9c5698@krutt.org>
References: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<003601d4ae99$4415b690$cc4123b0$@net>
	<336528b1-031c-d52b-5926-c3087744bd0c@andregarzia.com>
	<62b67b8f-b67a-91ab-11e9-42d1fd9c5698@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <4f5bd254-b4a0-d817-47ba-308e35b67f12@krutt.org>

haha did i say does?

i mean those....a well almost wrote the dutch pronouncing


Op 18-1-2019 om 20:07 schreef JJS via use-livecode:
> i don't have does issues on my win10 and lc902
>
> i added .rev and .livecode to be excluded in Windows Defecnder and 
> added the livecode.exe to be excluded.
>
> the thing i do see is that the line nr's in the scripteditor sometimes 
> seem to stall while i scroll up or down the script. switching to 
> another script and back seems to refresh it.
>
> Another thing i do is before opening an other project stack to work 
> on, closing the IDE and restart it
>
> Op 18-1-2019 om 12:44 schreef Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode:
>> Ralph,
>>
>> The IDE is so bad under windows that sometimes I dust off my 2013 
>> macbook air just to use it there for some hours and fix whatever I 
>> need to fix in my projects.
>>
>> You're right, there is no recipe, it is "degradation over time" and 
>> time in here is measured in minutes and few hours. This happens 
>> regardless of plugins and fancy features such as autocompletion. Here 
>> in my install I face the following problems:
>>
>> * script editor lag. I am a slow typer and yet sometimes, the editor 
>> will lag a lot behind my coding.
>>
>> * script editor missing keystrokes. The lag above sometimes make the 
>> editor lose keystrokes causing my code to be broken.
>>
>> * IDE fails to drag and drop controls or respond to shortcuts. 
>> Dragging tools from the tools palette into my stacks sometimes 
>> doesn't work. Selecting a control and using common keyboard shortcuts 
>> to open scripts or inspectors also doesn't work.
>>
>> This makes using LC a pain and there is no recipe. I've even picked a 
>> plain new install without any plugin and it still happens over time. 
>> My machine is a Surface Pro 4 running Window 10, there is no 
>> bloatware or machine problem, it is all made nice by Microsoft, I 
>> don't face this kind of problem in any other language or IDE I use here.
>>
>> I suspect that some IDE internal event message or loop is blocking 
>> but there is no way to tell.
>>
>> On 17/01/2019 19:17, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
>>> A couple of things I have observed in Win 10 LC 9.0.2.
>>> 1) Scroll wheel starts scrolling 100s of lines with one wheel rotation
>>> detent. The only way to fix is to restart IDE.
>>> 2) SE Font is bold 10% of the time when opening LC. The only way to 
>>> fix is
>>> to restart IDE(maybe more than once).
>>> 3) After working in the IDE for a while then using breakpoints(I 
>>> think),
>>> every time I do a Ctrl S the IDE will do a variety of things. Not 
>>> all at
>>> once but sometimes all at once. The only way to fix is to restart 
>>> IDE. Ctrl
>>> S does these things sometimes:
>>> ? a) Opens up the message box and execute the last command.
>>> ? b) The confirm IDE save version dialog is not presented instead 
>>> the last
>>> answer dialog used is displayed without any buttons. Sometimes keyboard
>>> returns will let it move on and complete the save maybe 50% of the 
>>> time.
>>> ? c) The open message box has a one line field with a horizontal 
>>> scrollbar
>>> scroll appear and is not active and all other windows are locked up.
>>> ? d) Blank "new script editor" window opens and is non functional.
>>> ? e) All of the above but flashing and repeating 10s of times(sometimes
>>> forever). Look like a 1970's light show. I get flashbacks just 
>>> looking at
>>> it. The message boxes and answer dialogs are flashing on and off 
>>> with 100%
>>> cpu.
>>> 4) IDE goes into a loop (now and again).
>>> 5) IDE quits (not often).
>>> 6) Save stacks take 10 seconds or more with the Windows "not 
>>> responding" in
>>> the top bar using 100% cpu until saving status box appears. The 
>>> status box
>>> is only up moment. The actual save operation take a 1/2 second after 
>>> that.
>>> 7) Undo's are sketchy at best. Sometimes the work as expected other 
>>> times
>>> some other tab's script is changed.
>>> 8) Put too many lines into the message box and the same as Ctrl S 
>>> issues
>>> start to pop up.
>>> 9) The IDE goes into loop and locks up for no reason using 100% cpu.
>>>
>>> I can't make any recipes for a QCC report. I can't see any pattern. 
>>> Simple
>>> stacks usually don't have any of the above problems except for the IDE
>>> scroll wheel and font problems so my larger stacks are doing 
>>> something that
>>> is whacking out the IDE in v9 that did not happen pre v9.
>>>
>>> All this being said I still get more done with LC than any other 
>>> language I
>>> have ever used so it's still a net large gain in productivity.
>>> ? I don't know what I can do to help.
>>>
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jan 18 15:22:54 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:22:54 -0600
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
In-Reply-To: <25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
	<25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <2b8fe962-be04-2e9b-e595-c9c201e9ec18@hyperactivesw.com>

On 1/18/19 12:33 PM, kee nethery via use-livecode wrote:
> I?m confused. Can someone explain why merge function exists when the put function works just as well?
> 
> merge( [[ 1 + 2 ]] = 3)
> vs
> put 1 + 2 && ?= 3?
> 
> What is it that merge can do that a put cannot do? 

For me, it's convenience, precision, and readability (no need for all 
those ampersands and quote marks.) I use it mostly for reports, 
auto-generated emails from my server, and sometimes dynamic HTML 
construction. It also eliminates the need for multiple "replace" commands.

For example, imagine a text template in a custom property named "cText":

Dear [[username]],
   Thank you for your interest in [[productname]]. [[productname]] is 
available for download at [[productURL]].

And the script:

put "John Doe" into username
put "Zygodact" into productname
put "http://mydomain.com//zygodact.html" into productURL
put merge(the cText of me) into tResponse


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri Jan 18 15:32:38 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 21:32:38 +0100
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <62b67b8f-b67a-91ab-11e9-42d1fd9c5698@krutt.org>
References: <CAG1Q0g_QCdh+zUydTw9RNR-y9vVradcFL3=0szXcJQCPVP7B_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<003601d4ae99$4415b690$cc4123b0$@net>
	<336528b1-031c-d52b-5926-c3087744bd0c@andregarzia.com>
	<62b67b8f-b67a-91ab-11e9-42d1fd9c5698@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <646F8C54-8022-47A7-BEB9-97E5A3EAFDFD@m-r-d.de>


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
> 
> the thing i do see is that the line nr's in the scripteditor sometimes seem to stall while i scroll up or down the script. switching to another script and back seems to refresh it.

This behaviour i can see also on Mac OS X.

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jan 18 15:35:02 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:35:02 -0800
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
In-Reply-To: <25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
References: <25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <f903fa75-87a3-513d-2dd9-18690aa49a9a@fourthworld.com>

kee nethery wrote:

 > I?m confused. Can someone explain why merge function exists when the
 > put function works just as well?
 >
 > merge( [[ 1 + 2 ]] = 3)
 > vs
 > put 1 + 2 && ?= 3?
 >
 > What is it that merge can do that a put cannot do? Just asking because
 > I don?t want LiveCode to end up like Perl where there are so many
 > completely different ways to do the exact same thing that one person?s
 > perl code can be unreadable to another equally talented Perl coder.

Not to worry about new things in the language stinking up the place. <g> 
Merge has been in the xTalk family of languages for a long time, and 
serves a distinct purpose.  A little history may be helpful:

Gary Poppitz of the SuperCard team introduced the merge function to the 
xTalk world in the mid-90s, to support a server-side version of 
SuperCard called Flamethrower.

The goal was to provide a convenient way to sprinkle xTalk evaluations 
and statements throughout text that isn't xTalk -- in that use-case, HTML.

In short: templating.

Without a merge function you'd need to write your own parse to walk 
through the text to find whatever delimiters you're using, then run the 
found substring through "do" or "value".  Possible, but tedious and 
error-prone.  Indeed there were some HyperCard stacks back in the day 
with similar functionality done in script (Bob McBurney's Arachnid comes 
to mind), so one could deliver dynamic web pages from a Mac server in 
our favorite language.  But it was no speed demon compared to what LC 
does by handling that robustly in the engine.

Some time around MetaCard v2.0 Scott Raney added it to the engine we now 
call LiveCode, so it's been around for more than 20 years.  Mark 
Waddingham has enhanced it since then, and the core functionality is 
similar in many respects to how LC Server processes .lc files, so it's 
not going away any time soon.

And considering its utility, I'm grateful for it.  While I use it most 
often with HTML templates, I've used it with other formats as well for a 
wide range of tasks.  The ability to quickly and conveniently process 
any number of LC Script placeholders within a body of non-LC text has 
many applications once you get the hang of it.


Bonus:

A sort of logical inverse to using LC expressions in the middle of 
non-LC text is to put non-LC text in the middle of LC Scripts.  In bash 
this is done with heredoc, and some other languages offer such 
functionality as well.  I've proposed it in the LC request queue:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17471

Comment #5 there from Brian Milby shows existing syntax used in another 
xTalk, SenseTalk, that could conceivably be adopted, perhaps less useful 
for compatibility with that dialect than simply having proven design 
work already done.

Used with the merge function, a heredoc-like implementation would make 
short work of many tasks we currently write 
"complicated"&space&"and"&space&"difficult-to-read"&space&"concatenation" 
for.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jan 18 15:47:55 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:47:55 -0800
Subject: Multiple regression in LiveCode?
In-Reply-To: <717699875.131728.1547837957658@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <717699875.131728.1547837957658@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <ad9c4e9d-fdda-d89a-c322-db21667dcb5d@fourthworld.com>

DAVID Epstein wrote:

 > Has anyone written a LiveCode function that will take a table of 2 or
 > more independent variables and 1 dependent variable, and return
 > coefficients, intercept, and standard errors for a multiple
 > regression?

There might be something in the old joneslib.mc library:

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=24307#p125754

It's quite old and will no doubt have a compilation issue or two with 
all the changes since it was first shared in the late '90s, mostly from 
functions there that have since been added to the engine.  But IIRC 
there's plenty of statistical juiciness there worth exploring beyond the 
ones now in engine.

If you find it useful enough to merit the quick cleanup, please consider 
posting the updated version to RevOnline.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From hh at hyperhh.de  Fri Jan 18 16:04:08 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 22:04:08 +0100
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
Message-ID: <912E1F56-1297-4CF8-BFF6-08D753B880C9@hyperhh.de>

> Kee N. wrote:
> I?m confused. Can someone explain why merge function exists when
> the put function works just as well?
> merge([[ 1 + 2 ]] = 3) vs put 1 + 2 && ?= 3?

merge([[ 1 + 2 ]] = 3) produces a script error,
this should read merge("[[ 1 + 2 ]] = 3").

Merge is the one and only function to do *multiple* replacements in
large strings in *one* shot. This is especially *very* important when
setting wordy strings like htmltext (or emails, as JLG denoted).


From andre at andregarzia.com  Fri Jan 18 17:03:46 2019
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Alves Garzia)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 22:03:46 +0000
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
In-Reply-To: <25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
	<25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <7a1fdc29-417c-2d50-cc1d-d45f2c5a1cc9@andregarzia.com>

Kee,

I can spend hours on why merge is useful and underappreciated but I will 
boil it down to one use case only: templates.

Merge is crucial if you're assembling some textual template that is not 
LiveCode but want to generate parts of it in LiveCode. For example, the 
first step in understanding the power of merge is "variable 
interpolation" in which we use merge to place values inside our text, 
for example, consider the following HTML snippet:

----

<ul>

 ? <li>Name: [[tFirstName]]</li>

 ? <li>Surname: [[tSurname]]</li>

 ? <li>Email: [[tEmail]]</li>

</ul>

---

Calling merge and having those variables filled with the data you want 
will get you the HTML you want. You can extrapolate it further by 
calling functions from merge such as:

---

<p>The current time is: [[the long english date]]</p>

---

You can even do loops and assemble more stuff. This is way better than 
error prone string concatenation. It is good for generating all sorts of 
textual formats, from HTML/XML to? more niche stuff such as scripts to 
run in another language or even in LC itself.


Cheers

andre


On 18/01/2019 18:33, kee nethery via use-livecode wrote:
> I?m confused. Can someone explain why merge function exists when the put function works just as well?
>
> merge( [[ 1 + 2 ]] = 3)
> vs
> put 1 + 2 && ?= 3?
>
> What is it that merge can do that a put cannot do? Just asking because I don?t want LiveCode to end up like Perl where there are so many completely different ways to do the exact same thing that one person?s perl code can be unreadable to another equally talented Perl coder.
>
> Kee
>   
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Fri Jan 18 17:35:38 2019
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:35:38 -0800
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
In-Reply-To: <7a1fdc29-417c-2d50-cc1d-d45f2c5a1cc9@andregarzia.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
	<25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
	<7a1fdc29-417c-2d50-cc1d-d45f2c5a1cc9@andregarzia.com>
Message-ID: <38B7BCBC-EA52-4C3E-8306-CA26EA5463CB@elloco.com>

Thanks everyone. Templates makes sense.

Just for grins, perhaps the dictionary entry could be enhanced with Jacque?s example. 

It makes sense to me now.

Kee



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Fri Jan 18 19:52:24 2019
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:52:24 -0800
Subject: The merge function is redundant?
In-Reply-To: <38B7BCBC-EA52-4C3E-8306-CA26EA5463CB@elloco.com>
References: <6E6B0113-76BF-447A-AC09-72A414C37B23@hyperhh.de>
	<CAKCLKtoojtDTdq8pvio9mQWkLGXa2-7eprQc-t8OPe94B1S2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLQeJax66hu-VNUym6YuGGHvbopER8Bf7injfPEk8hxTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtoeE0KXvYyRo5b_gf0HFG8GFdG5cP_epZtLYfpYboe7DQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<85e34f321921a5f3eb60174e023da9ac@livecode.com>
	<25A0DEA4-3D2D-487E-BD7C-E4ADAA1185E5@elloco.com>
	<7a1fdc29-417c-2d50-cc1d-d45f2c5a1cc9@andregarzia.com>
	<38B7BCBC-EA52-4C3E-8306-CA26EA5463CB@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <054DD5C5-60A3-4D09-A704-10A274980336@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Folks:
I?m looking at Jan Schenkel?s posting on the ?Power of Merge?.

I can?t make any of the examples work.
Obviously, there is some code or some very basic thing that everybody (but me) knows, but ??

Please illuminate me. I see the &quot; placeholder in some of the lessons. The dictionary is no help.

BTW: No search in the dictionary?s user guide?

Thanks,
Bill

e.g.
on mouseUp

	put "Testing" into Foobar

	put merge(&quot;[[quote]]Foobar[[quote]] [[the short name of \

	this stack]]&quot;) & return & \

	merge(&quot;[[the layer of this card]] / [[the short ID \

	of me]]&quot;) into tVariable

end mouseUp


Bill

William A. Prothero, Ph.D.University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus)Santa Barbara, CA. 93105

http://earthlearningsolutions.org/

> On Jan 18, 2019, at 2:35 PM, kee nethery via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks everyone. Templates makes sense.
> 
> Just for grins, perhaps the dictionary entry could be enhanced with Jacque?s example. 
> 
> It makes sense to me now.
> 
> Kee
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From curry at pair.com  Fri Jan 18 20:10:46 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 20:10:46 -0500
Subject: Script Editor Slow on Windows
In-Reply-To: <646F8C54-8022-47A7-BEB9-97E5A3EAFDFD@m-r-d.de>
References: <646F8C54-8022-47A7-BEB9-97E5A3EAFDFD@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <96272114-4050-4b73-db9f-4995112c3942@pair.com>


I'll pipe in again, possibly triggering one or two souls again but 
that's OK if it will help others. :)

So, I really feel for the people who are still having big problems using 
SE and IDE. I've been there and felt that pain; it's no fun. LC without 
code editing is quite restrictive. But the good news is that right now 
I'm able to type up a storm in LC 9.

While a final fix may need to come from LC itself, hopefully the 
remaining users with frequent problems can work around the problem and 
get running again quickly with logic and a little luck. Don't give up!

In my case, (A) I was having huge problems with the newest LC 9's on my 
old but not-too-old Windows laptop, (B) the old laptop hardware got sick 
so I bought a new one, (C) the new laptop had problems with the newest 
9's too, so I took time out to discuss and report the bug.

Then (D) when I had a chance I changed some software on the new laptop 
including AV, (E) most of the problems went away; I couldn't reproduce 
the bug for a better recipe as I intended, (F) I heard back from LC that 
disabling Windows Defender had helped several people, (G) I looked at my 
settings and sure enough my new AV had replaced the Windows Defender 
features in question. Of course a few other variables were in the mix 
including different projects I was working on and tweaks to other AV(s) 
and other software and settings on the machine.

Afterwards (H) some people notified me of similar Mac symptoms, I was 
interested but some time later (I) it happened on my Mac too. Wow! I was 
surprised, in the middle of a bunch of stuff so no recipe, but there it 
was. Assuming that the same symptoms is likely the same bug - not a 
certainty but a good possibility. Furthermore (J) given that this topic 
still exists as of today - with even some very savvy and accomplished 
LiveCoders affected -I assume that the quick fix on Windows Defender, 
while it works for most people, doesn't work for everyone even on Windows.

So to summarize some probable points:

1. It's not just Windows Defender; WD's techniques have followed other 
AVs' "innovations" and are in turn being followed by yet other AVs. Over 
the years I've had to chastise more than one AV for not playing nice 
with LiveCode. In the AV world WD is not unique; it's just currently 
very widespread, bundled with the OS. Fortunately as a result, for this 
SE slowdown the WD fix works for most. But others should take heart and 
keep digging.

2. It's not just Windows. Other people have seen the SE symptoms on Mac, 
and now that includes myself. (Today I even witnessed a possible case of 
a Mac AV messing some things up in the Mac IDE!)

3. It's not just AV. Although AV is usually involved (not always), 
there's another side to the coin. Merely editing and formatting text, 
while the IDE is open but in a fairly static condition, ideally should 
not present opportunities for AV to constantly get involved. Of course 
there's also any user scripts that may be executing at the same time. 
But if the user plays nice and doesn't have any faulty scripts running, 
the IDE should also play nice and not take actions that would involve AV 
unnecessarily or in excess. Why? Because this suggests the possibility 
of actions (such as file access) or the timing of such actions that 
would lower performance anyway, besides opening the door to other 
potential current or future issues. If SE and/or the IDE have some weak 
code, it needs fixing to banish these symptoms forever and ensure a more 
robust IDE. Good code ensures no ghosts in the machine, and ghosts 
suggest weak code. I strongly suspect improvements are needed.

4. Individual computers are different, especially the software 
installed. If you're having problems, look at your AV settings and try 
some tweaks. Try turning off some real-time protection options 
temporarily, or whitelisting LC. If your AV is the hard-headed type, 
maybe try a different one altogether. There's even the possibility of 
other software on your system that is not strictly labeled AV. Once 
you're typing away in LC 9, believe me it's worth the effort of finding 
it. In my case I was forced to change AV anyway because McAfee (the 
default) was doing some crazy things including disabling firewall from 
time to time. Whatever the key is on your particular system, I think 
it's likely that the problem can be worked around until the IDE is 
beefed up. Don't give up.

5. It's a complex problem. We have the IDE plus the SE plus any user 
stacks or addons, all very important to factor in, plus OS, AV, and 
other software. Lots of things going on. Is the weakness is in the SE or 
other parts of the IDE, maybe even a special combination required to 
trigger the problems? And what triggers it on Mac? Not to mention user 
stack code. We do need one or more clean, simple, reliable recipe(s).

If someone who still has the problems, or someone who can just flip a 
software setting switch and experience the problem at will, can 
reproduce this and make a recipe with a fresh brand new stack in a fresh 
IDE instance, that may help. (Or a very reliable recipe for a more 
complex scenario.) Unfortunately I am no longer among those who can just 
flip a switch, due to my current AV's override, that's the state of my 
computer and I can't make huge changes right now with projects going on. 
Therefore it would be great if someone else can do this. Maybe more than 
one user could make a recipe! There's no guarantee that this is caused 
by a single factor, although I hope it is.

To reassure any faint of heart, I have great confidence in LC and 
currently exclusively use LC in ALL my professional software dev and 
consulting, something few others can honestly say. Not rehashing this to 
enjoy goosing the easily triggered or to test list bandwidth, but rather 
summarizing what we (may) know because some people are still having 
problems right now, and I hope this may help them work around it right 
now. If it should be 1 bug or 100 bugs, I'm fine with that.

To those people still having the slow SE: Keep trying as time allows - 
look at your AV and other software, your user stacks (try it fresh) and 
addons, your LC and SE settings. Consider making a recipe; it may help 
you to workaround immediately, as well as helping LC on a final fix. I 
hope that you, like myself, can get back happily to work using LC 9 on 
platform of choice where this particular issue is concerned!

(There are some other annoyances in SE and IDE which I'll be 
QA-reporting soon if they haven't been already, others please report 
them first if you have the time. But this SE slowdown was the biggest 
and baddest of them all. It really was a showstopper on 9 until I 
changed my AV, so to any still affected, I really hope and believe you 
can find the key to get thing running well enough on your system at 
least most of the time.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Jan 18 20:54:21 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 01:54:21 +0000
Subject: OT: Linus on C vs C++
Message-ID: <25358D72-6FFF-4C81-A3B7-682C963245E9@hindu.org>

https://www.quora.com/Linus-Torvalds-thinks-Java-and-C-are-horrible-programming-languages-So-which-language-does-he-recommend-for-programming


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Fri Jan 18 21:41:40 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 18:41:40 -0800
Subject: OT: Linus on C vs C++
In-Reply-To: <25358D72-6FFF-4C81-A3B7-682C963245E9@hindu.org>
References: <25358D72-6FFF-4C81-A3B7-682C963245E9@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <b49aa9ff-a935-310e-ef48-ce448d9b9e9a@sonic.net>

On 1/18/19 5:54 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:
> https://www.quora.com/Linus-Torvalds-thinks-Java-and-C-are-horrible-programming-languages-So-which-language-does-he-recommend-for-programming

...one of those rare cases where I agree with everything Linus says.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From smk at anvic.net  Sat Jan 19 02:49:12 2019
From: smk at anvic.net (Simon Knight)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 07:49:12 +0000
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
Message-ID: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>

Hi all,

I have just read about two ?issues? and both would be resolved or at least helped with a more detailed dictionary entry.  Now in the dim distant past the RunRev dictionary use to allow humble users to add comments and examples which I for one found useful.  Does anyone know why this useful feature was removed?  Security ?



Simon Knight







From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 07:56:14 2019
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 13:56:14 +0100
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g9Y255bSt4baYPgh+GgQ7b98sbhaAwAJdsqAUpdDH66qQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ref. To Mark Waddingham's suggestion:

/* Dear Mark, let me make this side note: Your insight and your comments
here, also in general, cannot be praised enough. I am a fast typer and a
slow reader, so I have to discipline myself to carefully read. But your
comments always catch my attention and I always read very carefully what
you are writing. You know about the engine and details with a fantastic
ability to let others understand important details based on a huge
knowledge base you have acquired. I needed to say this. We are writing here
because all users of fantastic LiveCode should profit. */

Regarding the crashing stack in Windows when not saving correctly ON SOME
USER MACHINES, unfortunately not on mine, I already have sent the stack to
Heather two weeks ago. I just wanted to read all the comments before I pay
(payment is by the hour). She has already quickly tested the main stack on
a Mac (not Windows) and did not find issues. I try to investigate more
before actually submitting an order.

My main stack has 58 cards. The stack has two small sub-stacks also used as
UI for settings. There is one card dedicated to internal resources (images,
etc.), two cards are user interface cards, the rest are data cards for a
technical product and "read-only". The user only sees the UI cards of
course. The stack script has 1500 lines of code. There are additional maybe
1000 lines of card scripts and really only some other scripts in buttons
(often behaviours), I am not using script-only stacks. The size of the
stack file is nearly 4 GB, probably mainly because of some technical images.

Testing the "save" process: I have no error when saving on my machine. It
is difficult for me to ask clients to test. But they are lazy. I asked
already.

Observation in the IDE and SE: The time for saving in the IDE seems to
depend on the amount of time spent with the SE open and making changes. The
longer I am working with the SE, the slower saving tends be.

New observation with the "quit" command: Now, being in the IDE, saying this
and also testing, when I "quit" then interestingly enough this takes up to
30 seconds, never less than 15 seconds. Why is the blue Windows system
wheel rotating for such a long time when force-quitting? When I force
quit from the Windows Task Manager then there is no such delay.

Maybe the saving & quitting problem actually is with the quit command?
Could that be? I never thought about this before. Quitting without saving
and locked messages should be an almost instantaneous quit.

I can not check the result of the "quit" command. Whatever line of script
comes after the quit is no longer recognized.

Kind regards
Roland


-- Start of Quote:
When the engine saves a stackfile when it has previously been saved to
the same place...

It first moves the existing file at <filename> to <filename>~. If this
step fails (e.g. because it can't move the file) then the save command
stops and returns an error indicating that in 'the result'.

Next it attempts to save the stackfile to <filename>.

If there is an error whilst writing the stackfile then the save command
stops, deletes the partially written stackfile at <filename>, moves the
<filename>~ back to <filename> and returns an appropriate error in 'the
result'.

If the engine crashes during saving, you will be left with a partially
written <filename> and a copy of the stackfile as it was successfully
last saved at <filename>~. Obviously in this case the engine has
crashed, so there is no 'the result' to check.

If saving successfully completes, then the engine deletes <filename>~
and returns empty in 'the result'.

So - assuming the engine isn't crashing (although the long save time
sounds odd - if you can submit a report/send a stackfile which takes
ages to re-save we can take a look!), then you should be able to find
out why the save is failing, or not happening as expected by checking
'the result' after the save command which is initiating the save.

Hope this helps!

Warmest Regards,

Mark.
-- End of Quote


From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 08:02:45 2019
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 14:02:45 +0100
Subject: Fwd: windows defender issues? & other AV
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g9Y255bSt4baYPgh+GgQ7b98sbhaAwAJdsqAUpdDH66qQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g9Y255bSt4baYPgh+GgQ7b98sbhaAwAJdsqAUpdDH66qQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g_JWyH9rvEuchr5CmgW8m6PqYHteo6-t7sAs7ZeYSDuXA@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I must send a correction, I meant MegaBytes, not Giga Bytes (typing
too fast)...

This is sentence needs correction:
"The size of the stack file is nearly 4 MB, probably mainly because of some
technical images."

Regards
Roland

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: R.H. <roland.huettmann at gmail.com>
Date: Sa., 19. Jan. 2019 um 13:56 Uhr
Subject: Re: windows defender issues? & other AV
To: LiveCode Runrev.Com <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>


Ref. To Mark Waddingham's suggestion:

/* Dear Mark, let me make this side note: Your insight and your comments
here, also in general, cannot be praised enough. I am a fast typer and a
slow reader, so I have to discipline myself to carefully read. But your
comments always catch my attention and I always read very carefully what
you are writing. You know about the engine and details with a fantastic
ability to let others understand important details based on a huge
knowledge base you have acquired. I needed to say this. We are writing here
because all users of fantastic LiveCode should profit. */

Regarding the crashing stack in Windows when not saving correctly ON SOME
USER MACHINES, unfortunately not on mine, I already have sent the stack to
Heather two weeks ago. I just wanted to read all the comments before I pay
(payment is by the hour). She has already quickly tested the main stack on
a Mac (not Windows) and did not find issues. I try to investigate more
before actually submitting an order.

My main stack has 58 cards. The stack has two small sub-stacks also used as
UI for settings. There is one card dedicated to internal resources (images,
etc.), two cards are user interface cards, the rest are data cards for a
technical product and "read-only". The user only sees the UI cards of
course. The stack script has 1500 lines of code. There are additional maybe
1000 lines of card scripts and really only some other scripts in buttons
(often behaviours), I am not using script-only stacks. The size of the
stack file is nearly 4 GB, probably mainly because of some technical images.

Testing the "save" process: I have no error when saving on my machine. It
is difficult for me to ask clients to test. But they are lazy. I asked
already.

Observation in the IDE and SE: The time for saving in the IDE seems to
depend on the amount of time spent with the SE open and making changes. The
longer I am working with the SE, the slower saving tends be.

New observation with the "quit" command: Now, being in the IDE, saying this
and also testing, when I "quit" then interestingly enough this takes up to
30 seconds, never less than 15 seconds. Why is the blue Windows system
wheel rotating for such a long time when force-quitting? When I force
quit from the Windows Task Manager then there is no such delay.

Maybe the saving & quitting problem actually is with the quit command?
Could that be? I never thought about this before. Quitting without saving
and locked messages should be an almost instantaneous quit.

I can not check the result of the "quit" command. Whatever line of script
comes after the quit is no longer recognized.

Kind regards
Roland


-- Start of Quote:
When the engine saves a stackfile when it has previously been saved to
the same place...

It first moves the existing file at <filename> to <filename>~. If this
step fails (e.g. because it can't move the file) then the save command
stops and returns an error indicating that in 'the result'.

Next it attempts to save the stackfile to <filename>.

If there is an error whilst writing the stackfile then the save command
stops, deletes the partially written stackfile at <filename>, moves the
<filename>~ back to <filename> and returns an appropriate error in 'the
result'.

If the engine crashes during saving, you will be left with a partially
written <filename> and a copy of the stackfile as it was successfully
last saved at <filename>~. Obviously in this case the engine has
crashed, so there is no 'the result' to check.

If saving successfully completes, then the engine deletes <filename>~
and returns empty in 'the result'.

So - assuming the engine isn't crashing (although the long save time
sounds odd - if you can submit a report/send a stackfile which takes
ages to re-save we can take a look!), then you should be able to find
out why the save is failing, or not happening as expected by checking
'the result' after the save command which is initiating the save.

Hope this helps!

Warmest Regards,

Mark.
-- End of Quote


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 10:47:38 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 17:47:38 +0200
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
Message-ID: <883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>

Some of those user entries were extremely useful.

It would be good if user entries could be restored to the dictionary 
once again.

Richmond.

On 19.01.19 9:49, Simon Knight via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have just read about two ?issues? and both would be resolved or at least helped with a more detailed dictionary entry.  Now in the dim distant past the RunRev dictionary use to allow humble users to add comments and examples which I for one found useful.  Does anyone know why this useful feature was removed?  Security ?
>
>
>
> Simon Knight
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Jan 19 11:44:32 2019
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 16:44:32 +0000
Subject: windows defender issues? & other AV
In-Reply-To: <CAG1Q0g9Y255bSt4baYPgh+GgQ7b98sbhaAwAJdsqAUpdDH66qQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1Q0g9Y255bSt4baYPgh+GgQ7b98sbhaAwAJdsqAUpdDH66qQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb05ee46-efc7-78a0-2b52-7092ffd920d2@tweedly.net>


On 19/01/2019 12:56, R.H. via use-livecode wrote:
> My main stack has 58 cards. The stack has two small sub-stacks also used as
> UI for settings. There is one card dedicated to internal resources (images,
> etc.), two cards are user interface cards, the rest are data cards for a
> technical product and "read-only". The user only sees the UI cards of
> course. The stack script has 1500 lines of code. There are additional maybe
> 1000 lines of card scripts and really only some other scripts in buttons
> (often behaviours), I am not using script-only stacks. The size of the
> stack file is nearly 4 GB, probably mainly because of some technical images.
>
> Testing the "save" process: I have no error when saving on my machine. It
> is difficult for me to ask clients to test. But they are lazy. I asked
> already.

Would it be easy to move the "technical images" to a separate stack ?

They (presumably) don't change often - so the main stack will be much 
smaller, and should therefore be less likely to cause problems with saves.

Alex.




From brian at milby7.com  Sat Jan 19 11:54:58 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:54:58 -0600
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>

We have an even better option now. ?Contributions to the actual dictionary can be submitted via GitHub.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 19, 2019, 9:48 AM -0600, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Some of those user entries were extremely useful.
>
> It would be good if user entries could be restored to the dictionary
> once again.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 19.01.19 9:49, Simon Knight via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have just read about two ?issues? and both would be resolved or at least helped with a more detailed dictionary entry. Now in the dim distant past the RunRev dictionary use to allow humble users to add comments and examples which I for one found useful. Does anyone know why this useful feature was removed? Security ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Simon Knight
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Sat Jan 19 12:55:56 2019
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 09:55:56 -0800
Subject: Purpose of &quot;?
Message-ID: <EE6829CD-2264-4B38-9844-C88206AC9B27@earthlearningsolutions.org>

In this discussion of the use of the merge function at:
http://newsletters.livecode.com/august/issue55/newsletter2.php
The samples use quot; extensively.

For example:
on mouseUp 
   put merge(&quot;[[quote]]Foobar[[quote]] [[the short name of \ this      
   stack]]&quot;) & return & \ merge(&quot;[[the layer of this card]] / 
   [[the short ID \ of me]]&quot;) into tVariable 
end mouseUp
This script, as written, throws an error in the SE in LC 9.0.2. Mac OS10.14

What is the meaning of the &quot; in the expression? That seems to be the source an error.

The merge function looks very useful, but I?m obviously missing something.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org



From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Sat Jan 19 13:05:03 2019
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:05:03 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
Message-ID: <B2048A7A-DAEA-4AD5-A559-C32369CF418F@elloco.com>



> On Jan 19, 2019, at 8:54 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> We have an even better option now.  Contributions to the actual dictionary can be submitted via GitHub.

If you have to post this here, it means it needs to be more obvious in the Dictionary wrapper that we all use.

Please put links into the Dictionary.

Thanks,
Kee


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Jan 19 13:47:39 2019
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 18:47:39 +0000
Subject: Purpose of &quot;?
In-Reply-To: <EE6829CD-2264-4B38-9844-C88206AC9B27@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <EE6829CD-2264-4B38-9844-C88206AC9B27@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <f3b11274-83a5-a7c4-e2ff-3ebfca657a3d@tweedly.net>

There shouldn't be any examples of &quot; in the actual script.

It's an anomaly from HTML - in order to display a quote sign in an HTML 
document, you need to use the form of &quot;??? so this has been 
copied/pasted (or something like that) between a a simple document/text 
file and an HTML file, and finished up with unneeded replacement for the 
quotes.

so take the text below, and replace all examples of &quot; with just the 
simply quote sign itself, and it should be all ok.

Alex.

On 19/01/2019 17:55, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote:
> In this discussion of the use of the merge function at:
> http://newsletters.livecode.com/august/issue55/newsletter2.php
> The samples use quot; extensively.
>
> For example:
> on mouseUp
>     put merge(&quot;[[quote]]Foobar[[quote]] [[the short name of \ this
>     stack]]&quot;) & return & \ merge(&quot;[[the layer of this card]] /
>     [[the short ID \ of me]]&quot;) into tVariable
> end mouseUp
> This script, as written, throws an error in the SE in LC 9.0.2. Mac OS10.14
>
> What is the meaning of the &quot; in the expression? That seems to be the source an error.
>
> The merge function looks very useful, but I?m obviously missing something.
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Sat Jan 19 14:18:13 2019
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 11:18:13 -0800
Subject: Purpose of &quot;?
In-Reply-To: <f3b11274-83a5-a7c4-e2ff-3ebfca657a3d@tweedly.net>
References: <EE6829CD-2264-4B38-9844-C88206AC9B27@earthlearningsolutions.org>
	<f3b11274-83a5-a7c4-e2ff-3ebfca657a3d@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <80486846-CAC1-4BD2-9848-5DDBAAFCF77B@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Thanks, Alex.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jan 19, 2019, at 10:47 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> There shouldn't be any examples of &quot; in the actual script.
> 
> It's an anomaly from HTML - in order to display a quote sign in an HTML document, you need to use the form of &quot;    so this has been copied/pasted (or something like that) between a a simple document/text file and an HTML file, and finished up with unneeded replacement for the quotes.
> 
> so take the text below, and replace all examples of &quot; with just the simply quote sign itself, and it should be all ok.
> 
> Alex.
> 
>> On 19/01/2019 17:55, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> In this discussion of the use of the merge function at:
>> http://newsletters.livecode.com/august/issue55/newsletter2.php
>> The samples use quot; extensively.
>> 
>> For example:
>> on mouseUp
>>    put merge(&quot;[[quote]]Foobar[[quote]] [[the short name of \ this
>>    stack]]&quot;) & return & \ merge(&quot;[[the layer of this card]] /
>>    [[the short ID \ of me]]&quot;) into tVariable
>> end mouseUp
>> This script, as written, throws an error in the SE in LC 9.0.2. Mac OS10.14
>> 
>> What is the meaning of the &quot; in the expression? That seems to be the source an error.
>> 
>> The merge function looks very useful, but I?m obviously missing something.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> http://es.earthednet.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at hyperhh.de  Sat Jan 19 14:49:40 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 20:49:40 +0100
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
Message-ID: <780050B6-7B93-4778-A12F-55F60933ED8E@hyperhh.de>

Use Bernd's TinyDictionary.
There everybody can add his own (private) notes.

Download from "Sample Stacks" or
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/825/TinyDictionary



From jjs at krutt.org  Sat Jan 19 15:30:27 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 21:30:27 +0100
Subject: global is empty
Message-ID: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>

Hi,


i've never had this before and i believe it is a stack fault rather than 
an actual bug.

Because with another stack the same principe is working correct. Using 
LC902.

With? the current stack the global gLocalDbID of the next line is empty 
once the new card is opened.

put revOpenDatabase("sqlite", gDatabasePath, , , , ) into gLocalDbID


The line is in the stack script, the splash card is shown and after a 
few seconds the first actual card is opened where you can select something.

The stack is for mobile, but all this happens in the IDE.

So i checked if the global is declared on each card/button is used.

Checked and outcommented any line that would close the database or empty 
the gLocalDbID.

Checked the global just before switching to the other card, then it's there.

On opening the other card, it's gone, empty, even in the preopening card 
part.

So it seems only happening that moment. Switching between other cards is 
no problem, the id in gLocalDbID is present, because i added an "if 
then..." to check the id and reopen the database if it is no number.

Strange thing is, all other globals who also come from the stack script 
are there, except not the one from revOpenDatabase.


And since it works with the other stack, i was banging my head against 
the wall, not understanding why the global was empty.


Has anyone had a similar issue with the this? The global from the 
revOpenDatabase i mean, not the bump on my forehead now :)


Thanks, Jerry






From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Jan 19 18:29:01 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 17:29:01 -0600
Subject: ChromeBooks and Android apps
Message-ID: <16868723248.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Has anyone tried running an Android app on a ChromeBook? Newer models are 
supposed to be able to do that. If so, how was it?
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com





From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 21:59:11 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 18:59:11 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>

1. Not everyone (very few people?) understand how git/GitHub works.
2. Even if you have a reasonable grasp of how to use git it's not obvious
how to contribute to the dictionary using git. I've maintained Navigator in
git/GitHub for about a year, and I'm sure I don't know the detailed steps
-- just the general sense of "clone the repository, make changes to the
dictionary, do a pull request." I just gave this a shot (pull request
<https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6856>) for the thinly-documented
merge function. We'll see if I did it right.

As an aside, I just checked, and the dictionary is now just two widgets? It
seems counterproductive and unnecessary to convert the dictionary to
widgets. There's no special functionality needed(?). And the dictionary
functionality is now expressly beyond the ability of a large portion of the
community to contribute to.

gc

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 8:55 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> We have an even better option now.  Contributions to the actual dictionary
> can be submitted via GitHub.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Jan 19, 2019, 9:48 AM -0600, Richmond via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > Some of those user entries were extremely useful.
> >
> > It would be good if user entries could be restored to the dictionary
> > once again.
> >
> > Richmond.
> >
> > On 19.01.19 9:49, Simon Knight via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have just read about two ?issues? and both would be resolved or at
> least helped with a more detailed dictionary entry. Now in the dim distant
> past the RunRev dictionary use to allow humble users to add comments and
> examples which I for one found useful. Does anyone know why this useful
> feature was removed? Security ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Simon Knight
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 22:02:57 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 19:02:57 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrQ3OOVjfHa=11UKKzqwtR0q+8jhS0db5QJTJnrj-+pHg@mail.gmail.com>

So I have to sign an agreement -- I thought I had, but I have now.

And I have to link my LiveCode account and my GitHub account, meaning LC
can read and write all user data, including private email addresses,
private profile information, and followers. Is that really necessary?

gc


On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 6:59 PM Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> 1. Not everyone (very few people?) understand how git/GitHub works.
> 2. Even if you have a reasonable grasp of how to use git it's not obvious
> how to contribute to the dictionary using git. I've maintained Navigator in
> git/GitHub for about a year, and I'm sure I don't know the detailed steps
> -- just the general sense of "clone the repository, make changes to the
> dictionary, do a pull request." I just gave this a shot (pull request
> <https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6856>) for the
> thinly-documented merge function. We'll see if I did it right.
>
> As an aside, I just checked, and the dictionary is now just two widgets?
> It seems counterproductive and unnecessary to convert the dictionary to
> widgets. There's no special functionality needed(?). And the dictionary
> functionality is now expressly beyond the ability of a large portion of the
> community to contribute to.
>
> gc
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 8:55 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> We have an even better option now.  Contributions to the actual
>> dictionary can be submitted via GitHub.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>> On Jan 19, 2019, 9:48 AM -0600, Richmond via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> > Some of those user entries were extremely useful.
>> >
>> > It would be good if user entries could be restored to the dictionary
>> > once again.
>> >
>> > Richmond.
>> >
>> > On 19.01.19 9:49, Simon Knight via use-livecode wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I have just read about two ?issues? and both would be resolved or at
>> least helped with a more detailed dictionary entry. Now in the dim distant
>> past the RunRev dictionary use to allow humble users to add comments and
>> examples which I for one found useful. Does anyone know why this useful
>> feature was removed? Security ?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Simon Knight
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > use-livecode mailing list
>> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>


From brian at milby7.com  Sat Jan 19 23:10:18 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 22:10:18 -0600
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtrQ3OOVjfHa=11UKKzqwtR0q+8jhS0db5QJTJnrj-+pHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtrQ3OOVjfHa=11UKKzqwtR0q+8jhS0db5QJTJnrj-+pHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b36d4af8-c90b-40c8-a9f0-bca2d0b49e28@Spark>

Interesting. ?I just checked on GitHub and the oauth token for LiveCode was recently revoked automatically since it was not used. ?It?s been quite a while since I did it and I can?t recall about having write access. ?There are several apps that I still have linked (Hacktoberfest...).

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 19, 2019, 9:04 PM -0600, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> So I have to sign an agreement -- I thought I had, but I have now.
>
> And I have to link my LiveCode account and my GitHub account, meaning LC
> can read and write all user data, including private email addresses,
> private profile information, and followers. Is that really necessary?
>
> gc
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 6:59 PM Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 1. Not everyone (very few people?) understand how git/GitHub works.
> > 2. Even if you have a reasonable grasp of how to use git it's not obvious
> > how to contribute to the dictionary using git. I've maintained Navigator in
> > git/GitHub for about a year, and I'm sure I don't know the detailed steps
> > -- just the general sense of "clone the repository, make changes to the
> > dictionary, do a pull request." I just gave this a shot (pull request
> > <https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6856>) for the
> > thinly-documented merge function. We'll see if I did it right.
> >
> > As an aside, I just checked, and the dictionary is now just two widgets?
> > It seems counterproductive and unnecessary to convert the dictionary to
> > widgets. There's no special functionality needed(?). And the dictionary
> > functionality is now expressly beyond the ability of a large portion of the
> > community to contribute to.
> >
> > gc
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 8:55 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > We have an even better option now. Contributions to the actual
> > > dictionary can be submitted via GitHub.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Brian
> > > On Jan 19, 2019, 9:48 AM -0600, Richmond via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > > > Some of those user entries were extremely useful.
> > > >
> > > > It would be good if user entries could be restored to the dictionary
> > > > once again.
> > > >
> > > > Richmond.
> > > >
> > > > On 19.01.19 9:49, Simon Knight via use-livecode wrote:
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have just read about two ?issues? and both would be resolved or at
> > > least helped with a more detailed dictionary entry. Now in the dim distant
> > > past the RunRev dictionary use to allow humble users to add comments and
> > > examples which I for one found useful. Does anyone know why this useful
> > > feature was removed? Security ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Simon Knight
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Sat Jan 19 23:20:36 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 22:20:36 -0600
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d73ff42-d87d-4ab9-bb49-842213405196@Spark>

I agree that the dictionary isn?t the easiest to update without a GutHib client, but dictionary updates can be done completely in a browser. ?The use of the browser widget for the display of the dictionary data is quite independent from the data itself. ?Maybe the community could put a complete replacement together for LC 10. ?TinyDictionary would make a good start. ?Would want to leverage how the Script Editor manages access to dictionary data to reduce memory usage (currently I?m guessing a good bit is in memory for the SE and the dictionary loads it all again from the JS version).

I?d also volunteer to submit PRs for updates if provided the necessary information. ?I?ve done quite a few. ?If there is a bug report, I would need the number as well to add the correct note.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 19, 2019, 9:00 PM -0600, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> 1. Not everyone (very few people?) understand how git/GitHub works.
> 2. Even if you have a reasonable grasp of how to use git it's not obvious
> how to contribute to the dictionary using git. I've maintained Navigator in
> git/GitHub for about a year, and I'm sure I don't know the detailed steps
> -- just the general sense of "clone the repository, make changes to the
> dictionary, do a pull request." I just gave this a shot (pull request
> <https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6856>) for the thinly-documented
> merge function. We'll see if I did it right.
>
> As an aside, I just checked, and the dictionary is now just two widgets? It
> seems counterproductive and unnecessary to convert the dictionary to
> widgets. There's no special functionality needed(?). And the dictionary
> functionality is now expressly beyond the ability of a large portion of the
> community to contribute to.
>
> gc
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 8:55 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > We have an even better option now. Contributions to the actual dictionary
> > can be submitted via GitHub.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
> > On Jan 19, 2019, 9:48 AM -0600, Richmond via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > > Some of those user entries were extremely useful.
> > >
> > > It would be good if user entries could be restored to the dictionary
> > > once again.
> > >
> > > Richmond.
> > >
> > > On 19.01.19 9:49, Simon Knight via use-livecode wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I have just read about two ?issues? and both would be resolved or at
> > least helped with a more detailed dictionary entry. Now in the dim distant
> > past the RunRev dictionary use to allow humble users to add comments and
> > examples which I for one found useful. Does anyone know why this useful
> > feature was removed? Security ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Simon Knight
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 01:10:14 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 22:10:14 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <b36d4af8-c90b-40c8-a9f0-bca2d0b49e28@Spark>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtrQ3OOVjfHa=11UKKzqwtR0q+8jhS0db5QJTJnrj-+pHg@mail.gmail.com>
	<b36d4af8-c90b-40c8-a9f0-bca2d0b49e28@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrnFQK8zpfGKU6EQpFKopc9GpiYVyUexGjcGqLhzX6Y_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 8:11 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Interesting.  I just checked on GitHub and the oauth token for LiveCode
> was recently revoked automatically since it was not used.  It?s been quite
> a while since I did it and I can?t recall about having write access.  There
> are several apps that I still have linked (Hacktoberfest...).
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>

If the token has been revoked, I wonder if the process would have failed if
I had said yes? Now I'm tempted to say yes just to find out -- I said no
more on principle than on any concern that LC would actually do anything
harmful on my behalf.

gc


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 01:16:34 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 22:16:34 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <8d73ff42-d87d-4ab9-bb49-842213405196@Spark>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d73ff42-d87d-4ab9-bb49-842213405196@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqQSsSgyfYRBYKBZ-sGxfZxBfPPO5K6mjp_tM+CmZExdQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 8:22 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I agree that the dictionary isn?t the easiest to update without a GutHib
> client, but dictionary updates can be done completely in a browser.


Yep, I figured that out after I spent several minutes looking for the
dictionary data and poking through the dictionary stack. I already cloned
LiveCode some time ago, and GitHub was smart enough to realize that even
though my clone is substantially out of date, the merge entry hasn't
changed. So all i had to do was find it, edit (my copy of) it, save, and
issue a pull request.

And then notice a few minutes later that LC was asking me to sign the
waiver and tie my accounts together. I've done everything but that last
bit, so we'll see what happens.

gc


From livfoss at mac.com  Sun Jan 20 08:44:41 2019
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 14:44:41 +0100
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>

Just covering this one point of Geoff?s in the Dictionary discussion. I agree with his comment, and I think it?s symptomatic of a problem with the development of LC in the last few years: there is IMHO a conflict between the ?everyone can code? philosophy that LC inherited (and greatly enriched) from Hypercard, and the perceived need to be more professional and serious as a player in the whole software development arena. 

It?s OK, I think, to provide more facilities for the ?big picture? professionals, such as making it easier to use version control and to work in teams, and to have an ever-expanding set of functions and even platforms; but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of the kind of user who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works, for example by deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and UI elements, and who wants to avoid going outside the LC comfort zone as far as is possible, for example to need to use github, or to struggle alone with the elaborate deployment techniques now demanded by the big players in software distribution. This ?old fashioned? type of user needs a very clear, understandable environment, and a lot of packaged help with deployment on the various platforms. I am probably hors de combat now, but I would put myself in the second category, despite having a quite technical background in software development.

A typical casualty of this conflict is the cancelling of the ability of these ordinary users to add notes to the dictionary, without apparent thought for the negative consequences.

Just my two (tottering) euro-cents.

Graham

> On 20 Jan 2019, at 03:59, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 1. Not everyone (very few people?) understand how git/GitHub works.
> 2. Even if you have a reasonable grasp of how to use git it's not obvious
> how to contribute to the dictionary using git. 



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Jan 20 09:09:26 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 08:09:26 -0600
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-5Bf29QN3D9dUw1Cvn45MFDwdLYYHGXT-VMQ+k+nSqjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 9:00 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> 1. Not everyone (very few people?) understand how git/GitHub works.
> 2. Even if you have a reasonable grasp of how to use git it's not obvious
> how to contribute to the dictionary using git.


The ?This Week In LiveCode? newsletter contains links to two screencasts I
made that demonstrate how to submit dictionary changes through the GitHub
web interface. There is still the process of setting up an account and
signing the LiveCode agreement. But submitting the actual change through
the browser is pretty easy.

The newsletter also lists documentation bugs which need fixing. Here is a
link to the latest edition:

https://livecode.github.io/this-week-in-livecode/issue/2019/01/14/this-week-in-livecode-163.html

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps

>


From brian at milby7.com  Sun Jan 20 09:46:27 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 08:46:27 -0600
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqQSsSgyfYRBYKBZ-sGxfZxBfPPO5K6mjp_tM+CmZExdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d73ff42-d87d-4ab9-bb49-842213405196@Spark>
	<CAKCLKtqQSsSgyfYRBYKBZ-sGxfZxBfPPO5K6mjp_tM+CmZExdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43dfd290-1c52-4d6a-820a-ce9b9340f6c9@Spark>

LiveCode can?t use your contribution without the CLA. ?Someone from LC May need to clarify the details. ?Since they release code as GPL and Commercial, we need to assign copyright to them for any changes we make and also assert that we are not introducing code where we are not able to assign said copyright.

As long as GitHub can?t verify the CLA, I don?t think the PR can move forward.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 20, 2019, 12:17 AM -0600, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 8:22 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree that the dictionary isn?t the easiest to update without a GutHib
> > client, but dictionary updates can be done completely in a browser.
>
>
> Yep, I figured that out after I spent several minutes looking for the
> dictionary data and poking through the dictionary stack. I already cloned
> LiveCode some time ago, and GitHub was smart enough to realize that even
> though my clone is substantially out of date, the merge entry hasn't
> changed. So all i had to do was find it, edit (my copy of) it, save, and
> issue a pull request.
>
> And then notice a few minutes later that LC was asking me to sign the
> waiver and tie my accounts together. I've done everything but that last
> bit, so we'll see what happens.
>
> gc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Jan 20 10:08:17 2019
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 10:08:17 -0500
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <43dfd290-1c52-4d6a-820a-ce9b9340f6c9@Spark>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d73ff42-d87d-4ab9-bb49-842213405196@Spark>
	<CAKCLKtqQSsSgyfYRBYKBZ-sGxfZxBfPPO5K6mjp_tM+CmZExdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<43dfd290-1c52-4d6a-820a-ce9b9340f6c9@Spark>
Message-ID: <91CFEA23-343F-44CF-8B14-CDE3BDC3F9F0@all-auctions.com>

Now that Microsoft owns GitHub perhaps LC should consider
moving everything over to some other entity such as Bitbucket, 
or SourceForge.

What do you think?

Rick






From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Jan 20 10:17:31 2019
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 10:17:31 -0500
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <979F6CE5-E59B-4E2B-9EC5-98F066918F76@all-auctions.com>

I agree that LC should be as simple as possible to use
and to contribute to for most users.  I do not believe most
of LC?s users are interested in signing up for GitHub and
having to sign an agreement with new owner Microsoft too.
User?s want a simple interface that is easy to use.  Scattering
LC resources all over the internet doesn?t fit that model, yet
that seems to be what we are dealing with now.

Just my 2 cents for the day.

Thanks for reading!

Rick

> On Jan 20, 2019, at 8:44 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just covering this one point of Geoff?s in the Dictionary discussion. I agree with his comment, and I think it?s symptomatic of a problem with the development of LC in the last few years: there is IMHO a conflict between the ?everyone can code? philosophy that LC inherited (and greatly enriched) from Hypercard, and the perceived need to be more professional and serious as a player in the whole software development arena. 
> 
> It?s OK, I think, to provide more facilities for the ?big picture? professionals, such as making it easier to use version control and to work in teams, and to have an ever-expanding set of functions and even platforms; but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of the kind of user who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works, for example by deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and UI elements, and who wants to avoid going outside the LC comfort zone as far as is possible, for example to need to use github, or to struggle alone with the elaborate deployment techniques now demanded by the big players in software distribution. This ?old fashioned? type of user needs a very clear, understandable environment, and a lot of packaged help with deployment on the various platforms. I am probably hors de combat now, but I would put myself in the second category, despite having a quite technical background in software development.
> 
> A typical casualty of this conflict is the cancelling of the ability of these ordinary users to add notes to the dictionary, without apparent thought for the negative consequences.
> 
> Just my two (tottering) euro-cents.
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 20 Jan 2019, at 03:59, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 1. Not everyone (very few people?) understand how git/GitHub works.
>> 2. Even if you have a reasonable grasp of how to use git it's not obvious
>> how to contribute to the dictionary using git. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 14:01:40 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 11:01:40 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG-5Bf29QN3D9dUw1Cvn45MFDwdLYYHGXT-VMQ+k+nSqjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG-5Bf29QN3D9dUw1Cvn45MFDwdLYYHGXT-VMQ+k+nSqjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtq1iZWRasKKg6bzCwzu8EzvsLfaqZbicdNioyv+0oc5uA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:10 AM Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> The newsletter also lists documentation bugs which need fixing. Here is a
> link to the latest edition:
>
>
> https://livecode.github.io/this-week-in-livecode/issue/2019/01/14/this-week-in-livecode-163.html


Nice!


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 14:04:56 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 11:04:56 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <43dfd290-1c52-4d6a-820a-ce9b9340f6c9@Spark>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d73ff42-d87d-4ab9-bb49-842213405196@Spark>
	<CAKCLKtqQSsSgyfYRBYKBZ-sGxfZxBfPPO5K6mjp_tM+CmZExdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<43dfd290-1c52-4d6a-820a-ce9b9340f6c9@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtoFz0dVuSYMx0DQ0QjLbbxmBc2eBwy9SZ9ZTxzYthq_iA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:47 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> LiveCode can?t use your contribution without the CLA.  Someone from LC May
> need to clarify the details.  Since they release code as GPL and
> Commercial, we need to assign copyright to them for any changes we make and
> also assert that we are not introducing code where we are not able to
> assign said copyright.
>
> As long as GitHub can?t verify the CLA, I don?t think the PR can move
> forward.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>

Again, not that I actually ascribe bad motives to the LC crew, but it seems
excessive to want write access to my profile.

gc


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jan 20 14:53:06 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 11:53:06 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <91CFEA23-343F-44CF-8B14-CDE3BDC3F9F0@all-auctions.com>
References: <91CFEA23-343F-44CF-8B14-CDE3BDC3F9F0@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <31299602-45cb-bfaf-44f2-203469f6621d@fourthworld.com>

Rick Harrison wrote:

 > Now that Microsoft owns GitHub perhaps LC should consider
 > moving everything over to some other entity such as Bitbucket,
 > or SourceForge.
 >
 > What do you think?

Personally, I think if it's good enough for the world's largest software 
project, the open source Linux kernel, it's probably good enough for 
LiveCode.

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/kernel

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From tom at makeshyft.com  Sun Jan 20 15:07:23 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 15:07:23 -0500
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtoFz0dVuSYMx0DQ0QjLbbxmBc2eBwy9SZ9ZTxzYthq_iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d73ff42-d87d-4ab9-bb49-842213405196@Spark>
	<CAKCLKtqQSsSgyfYRBYKBZ-sGxfZxBfPPO5K6mjp_tM+CmZExdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<43dfd290-1c52-4d6a-820a-ce9b9340f6c9@Spark>
	<CAKCLKtoFz0dVuSYMx0DQ0QjLbbxmBc2eBwy9SZ9ZTxzYthq_iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLLrMXLXScRm-Sj0kEsxKECBMAWeyFAGe_vDb2FZCj1pRw@mail.gmail.com>

I think the LC team set things up so that its convenient for them in their
workflow of growing & maintaining Livecode, ...its not so much our
convenience per se.

I think removing notes from the dictionary is a step backwards.  This one
needs correction.

The permissions are over the top, but not intentional I am sure.



On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 2:05 PM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:47 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > LiveCode can?t use your contribution without the CLA.  Someone from LC
> May
> > need to clarify the details.  Since they release code as GPL and
> > Commercial, we need to assign copyright to them for any changes we make
> and
> > also assert that we are not introducing code where we are not able to
> > assign said copyright.
> >
> > As long as GitHub can?t verify the CLA, I don?t think the PR can move
> > forward.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
> >
>
> Again, not that I actually ascribe bad motives to the LC crew, but it seems
> excessive to want write access to my profile.
>
> gc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jan 20 14:50:00 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 11:50:00 -0800
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <979F6CE5-E59B-4E2B-9EC5-98F066918F76@all-auctions.com>
References: <979F6CE5-E59B-4E2B-9EC5-98F066918F76@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <81b36be8-158b-8a2c-d501-2962f50acdda@fourthworld.com>

Rick Harrison wrote:

 > I do not believe most of LC?s users are interested in signing up
 > for GitHub and having to sign an agreement with new owner Microsoft
 > too.

In what way has Girhub's TOS been changed after Microsoft's acquisition 
which would be a concern to LiveCode developers?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 15:18:44 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 12:18:44 -0800
Subject: Livecode Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLLrMXLXScRm-Sj0kEsxKECBMAWeyFAGe_vDb2FZCj1pRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98C845DE-B38C-43E4-AA3A-5232CC3BD432@anvic.net>
	<883d455c-9539-5359-51c5-94baff55ff2f@gmail.com>
	<3c4c302c-ed93-4548-98b3-08787dbf5710@Spark>
	<CAKCLKto9giQbQuRh+h7Mf0=wHHN6wZfzPWiOGiKt3V+k_xQpLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d73ff42-d87d-4ab9-bb49-842213405196@Spark>
	<CAKCLKtqQSsSgyfYRBYKBZ-sGxfZxBfPPO5K6mjp_tM+CmZExdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<43dfd290-1c52-4d6a-820a-ce9b9340f6c9@Spark>
	<CAKCLKtoFz0dVuSYMx0DQ0QjLbbxmBc2eBwy9SZ9ZTxzYthq_iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPzQJLLrMXLXScRm-Sj0kEsxKECBMAWeyFAGe_vDb2FZCj1pRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqCWx3oCYA_YUsWjWmpTAknPEDGO7AYMyasW19mZqojTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> The permissions are over the top, but not intentional I am sure.
>

Agreed. I'm just waiting to see if:

1. My changes go in with the current state of affairs.
2. Someone from LC re-ups their cert, and hopefully with more reasonable
requirements.
3. Nothing happens.


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Jan 20 17:22:51 2019
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 17:22:51 -0500
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <81b36be8-158b-8a2c-d501-2962f50acdda@fourthworld.com>
References: <979F6CE5-E59B-4E2B-9EC5-98F066918F76@all-auctions.com>
	<81b36be8-158b-8a2c-d501-2962f50acdda@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <652B44BE-C8C5-4753-BCB4-3A5ECADE0FBE@all-auctions.com>

Many developers do not trust Microsoft, and neither do I.
Things may be fine right now, but it is the future that
concerns me more.  They can change their terms at
anytime, and no one knows what they will do.

Just a word of caution.

Cheers,

Rick



> On Jan 20, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Rick Harrison wrote:
> 
> > I do not believe most of LC?s users are interested in signing up
> > for GitHub and having to sign an agreement with new owner Microsoft
> > too.
> 
> In what way has Girhub's TOS been changed after Microsoft's acquisition which would be a concern to LiveCode developers?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 18:11:52 2019
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:11:52 +1100
Subject: global is empty
In-Reply-To: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kiwmnU+-WZSzYZt2JQMOay2chubXP5BAH4jrvB5A-ramA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:30 AM JJS via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Because with another stack the same principe is working correct. Using
> LC902.

In the odd cases where I've seen this happen (not your problem, but
where the same code works in one stack but not another) my fallback
strategy is to:

clone the stack
select the ENTIRE object's script, not just the function/command that
is misbehaving, and paste it into a text editor.
Delete the script from the object and Save. ie. the script of the
object is now empty.
If your text editor has the function 'Zap Gremlins' (or whatever it's
equivalent is to remove non ASCII characters) use it.  In 99% of my
cases none are found and this is probably completely redundant but
it's belts and braces to ensure only ASCII goes back.
Copy and Paste the script back into it's object.
Save your Stack again.

This has worked for me on many occasions that it's just second nature
now.  Please don't take from that that I do this on a regular basis;
in the early days of 8 & 9, maybe; I'm currently finding the latest
LC9 very usable and haven't needed the above for a good 6-9 months.

I think only once have I ever had to resort to applying the above to
every script of the stack*; but fortunately I had available to me a
very capable scripting language that was able to make very short work
of exporting every script of every object into their own text file ;-)
Once cleaned, and since Revolution 6.7 scriptLimits have been removed,
it was also very easy to reset all the scripts of all the objects.  It
worked!  As your case involves Globals you may need to 'clean' every
script.

*In reality it probably didn't need to be every script of the stack,
there was probably some logical connection with the message path and
the scripts involved; but time wise it was much quicker just to export
every script than try to figure out the message path that may or may
not involve 'the target', behaviour scripts, library scripts, send,
etc etc.

HTH



From brian at milby7.com  Sun Jan 20 18:43:52 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 17:43:52 -0600
Subject: global is empty
In-Reply-To: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <9c58003a-8b1f-478e-b61b-3cb9c5812971@Spark>

You said you checked every card/button, but did you also verify the stack script too?
Are you defining the global at the script level or inside a particular handler?

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 19, 2019, 3:31 PM -0600, JJS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> i've never had this before and i believe it is a stack fault rather than
> an actual bug.
>
> Because with another stack the same principe is working correct. Using
> LC902.
>
> With? the current stack the global gLocalDbID of the next line is empty
> once the new card is opened.
>
> put revOpenDatabase("sqlite", gDatabasePath, , , , ) into gLocalDbID
>
>
> The line is in the stack script, the splash card is shown and after a
> few seconds the first actual card is opened where you can select something.
>
> The stack is for mobile, but all this happens in the IDE.
>
> So i checked if the global is declared on each card/button is used.
>
> Checked and outcommented any line that would close the database or empty
> the gLocalDbID.
>
> Checked the global just before switching to the other card, then it's there.
>
> On opening the other card, it's gone, empty, even in the preopening card
> part.
>
> So it seems only happening that moment. Switching between other cards is
> no problem, the id in gLocalDbID is present, because i added an "if
> then..." to check the id and reopen the database if it is no number.
>
> Strange thing is, all other globals who also come from the stack script
> are there, except not the one from revOpenDatabase.
>
>
> And since it works with the other stack, i was banging my head against
> the wall, not understanding why the global was empty.
>
>
> Has anyone had a similar issue with the this? The global from the
> revOpenDatabase i mean, not the bump on my forehead now :)
>
>
> Thanks, Jerry
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tom at makeshyft.com  Sun Jan 20 20:24:58 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:24:58 -0500
Subject: Can a substack become the mainstack and the mainstack become its
	substack?
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Geniuses,

I have a rather complicated application which I put on a mainstack with
many cards etc.

I now realize I need a splash stack so that I can set the script of my
application stack and its cards (for version control purposes).

Is there a way to turn my mainstack into a substack? so that the first
stack that loads is not my main application stack?

Is there another way of accomplishing the same thing? I want to load
scripts on startup from text files.

Thanks,

Tom


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 21:05:23 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:05:23 -0800
Subject: Can a substack become the mainstack and the mainstack become its
	substack?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqLt+1+tcpN5VbtPjmsjt=8qJbfvoin8X5+ZHz0WYDEkA@mail.gmail.com>

Sure, just create the stack you want to use as the splash screen, and then
set the mainstack of the current mainstack to the splash screen stack. I
think this will fail if the mainstack has substacks of its own. So first
change the substacks, then the mainstack. And if you are depending on the
substacks being able to reference handlers/functions in the (current)
mainstack, either move the handlers and functions to the new mainstack, or
convert to a behavior stack and use that for everything.

gc

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 5:25 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Geniuses,
>
> I have a rather complicated application which I put on a mainstack with
> many cards etc.
>
> I now realize I need a splash stack so that I can set the script of my
> application stack and its cards (for version control purposes).
>
> Is there a way to turn my mainstack into a substack? so that the first
> stack that loads is not my main application stack?
>
> Is there another way of accomplishing the same thing? I want to load
> scripts on startup from text files.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From brian at milby7.com  Sun Jan 20 21:10:18 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:10:18 -0600
Subject: Can a substack become the mainstack and the mainstack
	become its substack?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6623eb4-c2b3-456a-833c-71ec0c73e52e@Spark>

You should be able to use Navigator to scriptify if that is what you want. ?I?m not sure that a splash would be needed.

If you just want the scripts as text files for version control, you could also try my ScriptTracker.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 20, 2019, 7:25 PM -0600, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Hi Geniuses,
>
> I have a rather complicated application which I put on a mainstack with
> many cards etc.
>
> I now realize I need a splash stack so that I can set the script of my
> application stack and its cards (for version control purposes).
>
> Is there a way to turn my mainstack into a substack? so that the first
> stack that loads is not my main application stack?
>
> Is there another way of accomplishing the same thing? I want to load
> scripts on startup from text files.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tom at makeshyft.com  Sun Jan 20 21:59:51 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 21:59:51 -0500
Subject: Can a substack become the mainstack and the mainstack become its
	substack?
In-Reply-To: <b6623eb4-c2b3-456a-833c-71ec0c73e52e@Spark>
References: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b6623eb4-c2b3-456a-833c-71ec0c73e52e@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+yjihpx1fJ9678VjCjesQw2z+NQGVd5-7=61QQkmBVqw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Geoff, doing the sub-stacks first did the trick.  All seems to work
well.

Thanks Brian for the suggestion, I will check it out.

The point of this was to be able to put my project on github and view code
as text. I was just unable to set the script of my main stack which has all
the code on it. The splash screen/stack does the job, enables me to load
scripts and apply them from external files before the other stacks open and
run.

Cheers & thank you.





On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:12 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You should be able to use Navigator to scriptify if that is what you
> want.  I?m not sure that a splash would be needed.
>
> If you just want the scripts as text files for version control, you could
> also try my ScriptTracker.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Jan 20, 2019, 7:25 PM -0600, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > Hi Geniuses,
> >
> > I have a rather complicated application which I put on a mainstack with
> > many cards etc.
> >
> > I now realize I need a splash stack so that I can set the script of my
> > application stack and its cards (for version control purposes).
> >
> > Is there a way to turn my mainstack into a substack? so that the first
> > stack that loads is not my main application stack?
> >
> > Is there another way of accomplishing the same thing? I want to load
> > scripts on startup from text files.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 02:42:10 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 23:42:10 -0800
Subject: Can a substack become the mainstack and the mainstack become its
	substack?
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+yjihpx1fJ9678VjCjesQw2z+NQGVd5-7=61QQkmBVqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b6623eb4-c2b3-456a-833c-71ec0c73e52e@Spark>
	<CAPzQJL+yjihpx1fJ9678VjCjesQw2z+NQGVd5-7=61QQkmBVqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtoaAW66NSO=rMEPX2c2uJyi3R9v7vSy28s5-dJUe-tgbA@mail.gmail.com>

If your goal is GitHub, then you definitely want script-only stack
behaviors, and you should check out either Brian's ScriptTracker
<https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/ScriptTracker> or my
Navigator <https://gcanyon.wixsite.com/navigator> (nearly up-to-date
documentation specific to converting to script-only stack behaviors with
Navigator is here
<https://gcanyon.wordpress.com/navigator-convert-to-behaviors-details/>).

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 7:00 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Geoff, doing the sub-stacks first did the trick.  All seems to work
> well.
>
> Thanks Brian for the suggestion, I will check it out.
>
> The point of this was to be able to put my project on github and view code
> as text. I was just unable to set the script of my main stack which has all
> the code on it. The splash screen/stack does the job, enables me to load
> scripts and apply them from external files before the other stacks open and
> run.
>
> Cheers & thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:12 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > You should be able to use Navigator to scriptify if that is what you
> > want.  I?m not sure that a splash would be needed.
> >
> > If you just want the scripts as text files for version control, you could
> > also try my ScriptTracker.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
> > On Jan 20, 2019, 7:25 PM -0600, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > > Hi Geniuses,
> > >
> > > I have a rather complicated application which I put on a mainstack with
> > > many cards etc.
> > >
> > > I now realize I need a splash stack so that I can set the script of my
> > > application stack and its cards (for version control purposes).
> > >
> > > Is there a way to turn my mainstack into a substack? so that the first
> > > stack that loads is not my main application stack?
> > >
> > > Is there another way of accomplishing the same thing? I want to load
> > > scripts on startup from text files.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 03:36:10 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 08:36:10 +0000
Subject: Issues with Livecode 10.14.2 on Mojave?
In-Reply-To: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMUVPdM6dgVOUZquD1mpqJM4FtKciAwr_tjEBMSEE7xCQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've been having issue with my LiveCode installation for a few weeks
now.... basically the script editor slows down to a crawl, and barely
accepts mouse clicks. I also got  warning dialogue pop-up from Apple about
Livecode not being compatible with Mojave and future version....

Anyone else having issues? Know issue? I'm dealing with arrays that are a
bit larger than I usually process - but only 10MB of json. Trying to track
this one down - any advice appreciated!


From mark at livecode.com  Mon Jan 21 03:58:12 2019
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 09:58:12 +0100
Subject: Issues with Livecode 10.14.2 on =?UTF-8?Q?Mojave=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioMUVPdM6dgVOUZquD1mpqJM4FtKciAwr_tjEBMSEE7xCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
	<CAGASioMUVPdM6dgVOUZquD1mpqJM4FtKciAwr_tjEBMSEE7xCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e9d462d36c9bd5436371d07cf4c476c@livecode.com>

On 2019-01-21 09:36, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> I've been having issue with my LiveCode installation for a few weeks
> now.... basically the script editor slows down to a crawl, and barely
> accepts mouse clicks. I also got  warning dialogue pop-up from Apple 
> about
> Livecode not being compatible with Mojave and future version....

I suspect that the compatibility warning is caused by having set the
'Open in 32-bit mode' checkbox in Finder Get Info on the LiveCode app
in 10.13 and before - an upgraded OS remembers the setting but it isn't
user-visible anymore :|

The Finder setting for which apps launch in 32-bit mode by default is 
in:

    
~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.LaunchServices/com.apple.LaunchServices.plist

 From terminal (assuming you have Xcode installed) you can do:

   open 
~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.LaunchServices/com.apple.LaunchServices.plist

Then if you remove the key:

   RootLSArchitecturesForX86_64v2/com.runrev.livecode

Save, then relaunch Finder and then relaunch LC you *should* find LC 
runs without
the warning (as it will be running in 64-bit mode).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

P.S. If anyone knows where a UI for the above option exists in Mojave 
then please
let us know, the above was the only method we found late last year when 
we had
someone ask in Support about it.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon Jan 21 07:44:43 2019
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 14:44:43 +0200
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 164
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9LekVtJCKk6-eugZRw+ibXJbCRiwG-i45icUs95QdogA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #164 here: https://goo.gl/7SKM2E

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From brahma at hindu.org  Mon Jan 21 12:05:25 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 17:05:25 +0000
Subject: Performance Issue Related to Gradients/Graphic Effects
Message-ID: <EF529D6F-C3F3-4A12-9C5B-C484BE734C40@hindu.org>

There is a common UI element seen everywhere these days:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21801

A small photo or image, say 150px W x 85px H, the lower part of the photo,  at about 65px down, begins a gradient going to close to black near to bottom on the image. On top of that there is a Label/Text, which is in White. By virtue of the gradient behind, the text is clear and legible, even though it?s on photo with a lot of "noise".  The user hardly see that gradient, these a navigation elements, click and go.

I built this  into a new interface for navigation (getting away from scrolling) in SivaSiva app. Thinking "the is so cool, what the users wants all navigation, top of the fold, one place."

But oh boy?I took an enormous performance slow down on Android. At first I thought it was my "child like coding" that was getting me trouble. I refactored everything. The UI behavior is less then 100 line long, not hard on the engine? stumped?. I asked Elanor to look into it.

It took her a while but it seems it the graphic effect and gradients causing the trouble! So if you are struggling with getting a group to hide and show "immediately" or you leave the card and come back to it and have  a huge 2-3 second delay in mobile. It may not but your code, but the visual effects on the card.

We can of course, put the gradient in photoshop. But that a real nuisance? every time I want swap out the image (very easy to do in LiveCode just) I have go "mess with it" in Photoshop? Not doable in the long run.

If anyone else has this trouble, vote of the Bug to fix it ASAP in the next release of 9.0.3 RC 1 (or whatever the next release, even a quick patch would be useful.) We can't afford for this to go on a "2 year queue" ?. The eye candy people in my "stack holders" review group expect top notch graphic look and feel (they look at web apps run on web kit and they see "beautiful" effect / transition all the time and wonder why I can't get that in LiveCode)

<rant>my usual thing: LiveCode can run universities, help NASA with their satellites, run whole water systems for entire cities, run Filemake Databases?. I think you get can put a hold on the backend business engineering, and please, please make put scrolling, transitions, keyburns effects.. on the top of the list etc. every thing  about the graphics look and feel needs to be "2019" . It the first thing newbies expect when they test Livecode and the first thing the CEO (stakeholder) sees from a seasoned developed when he opens the app, "Why is it so clunky?" </rant>

BR




From jjs at krutt.org  Mon Jan 21 13:06:13 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:06:13 +0100
Subject: global is empty
In-Reply-To: <9c58003a-8b1f-478e-b61b-3cb9c5812971@Spark>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
	<9c58003a-8b1f-478e-b61b-3cb9c5812971@Spark>
Message-ID: <d9d02c64-30a8-6996-28df-7c24082a3448@krutt.org>

Thanks Kay for your detailed way of solving such issues, i'll keep that 
in mind may i get a similar issue.

By the way i lately use Brian's script exporter, instead of doing it 
manually. It works fast and great.


I always (well i force myself to) declare my globals at the top of a 
script stack or button, so not in a handler.

and beneath that, locals.

It was the notice of Brian which forced me to check that again in the 
stack script.

It seems, as this is a project i'm working on for longer time now, that 
i putted the local on top and the globals beneath it (before any handler)

Foolishly i putted this global behind the locals on the top line. And 
blindly trusting myself that it was correct i did not notice it.

And thus the global was gone on the next card.

So thanks Brian for pointing me to it, forcing me to check it a bit 
preciser.


Case solved!


Op 21-1-2019 om 00:43 schreef Brian Milby via use-livecode:
> You said you checked every card/button, but did you also verify the stack script too?
> Are you defining the global at the script level or inside a particular handler?



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 15:13:19 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 22:13:19 +0200
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <652B44BE-C8C5-4753-BCB4-3A5ECADE0FBE@all-auctions.com>
References: <979F6CE5-E59B-4E2B-9EC5-98F066918F76@all-auctions.com>
	<81b36be8-158b-8a2c-d501-2962f50acdda@fourthworld.com>
	<652B44BE-C8C5-4753-BCB4-3A5ECADE0FBE@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <1c3a0058-c895-53a1-ee2e-504530df85d0@gmail.com>

Oh, fruit-flavoured socks . . .

If many developers do not trust Microsoft, who can change their term 
anytime, and
no one knows what they will do . . .

One could wonder about the same sort of thing about other software 
manufacturers;
even those who keep changing their commercial licensing arrangements in 
a way that
sometimes seems haphazard and unpredictable . . .

Trusting software developers, especially developers on who one's own 
efforts depend is always
going to be an "iffy" thing, but so, then, is almost everything in life 
one has to rely on
that involves other people; so worrying about Microsoft, if one spends 
too much time on
it can become fairly unhealthy: and what about Apple, Canonical, and so 
on and so forth?

-----

My objection to bunging user stuff for the LiveCode dictionary on GitHub 
has nothing to
do with Microsoft, but has a lot to do with accessibility.

Way back when with LiveCode 4.5 end-user comments/feedback/hints in the 
Dictionary
appeared almost as soon as someone who added them opened LC while they 
were connected
to the internet . . .

I also (possibly incorrectly) had a feeling those comments "came 
through" unfiltered by the mothership.

Now I would suppose stuff going to GitHub does not get rolled into the 
Dictionary until the
next LC release, and only if the mothership lieutenants approve it.

Now, if I am messing around "trying to be clever" with LiveCode I 
generally need and am grateful for
all the help I can get: and if Fred Flintstone (that well-known LC 
developer) found something out
this morning which will serve me well this afternoon I have no great 
urge to wait 6-8 weeks for
that to filter through to me.

So . . . it would be lovely if, unless there are serious objections,
the Dictionary inwith LiveCode to regain its previous functionality so 
we can help each other
just that wee bit more.

Richmond.

On 21.01.19 0:22, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
> Many developers do not trust Microsoft, and neither do I.
> Things may be fine right now, but it is the future that
> concerns me more.  They can change their terms at
> anytime, and no one knows what they will do.
>
> Just a word of caution.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>> On Jan 20, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Rick Harrison wrote:
>>
>>> I do not believe most of LC?s users are interested in signing up
>>> for GitHub and having to sign an agreement with new owner Microsoft
>>> too.
>> In what way has Girhub's TOS been changed after Microsoft's acquisition which would be a concern to LiveCode developers?
>>
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Mon Jan 21 17:38:52 2019
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 14:38:52 -0800
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <1c3a0058-c895-53a1-ee2e-504530df85d0@gmail.com>
References: <979F6CE5-E59B-4E2B-9EC5-98F066918F76@all-auctions.com>
	<81b36be8-158b-8a2c-d501-2962f50acdda@fourthworld.com>
	<652B44BE-C8C5-4753-BCB4-3A5ECADE0FBE@all-auctions.com>
	<1c3a0058-c895-53a1-ee2e-504530df85d0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5424A9FA-4E74-410A-A186-9775F1083BF3@earthlearningsolutions.org>

I agree with Richmond. There are many great suggestions for coding tricks, and workarounds that occur on this list. That wisdom remains in the archives, but is not necessarily obviously accessible to those of us who may be exploring an unfamiliar or poorly documented technique. The dictionary is the first place I go. Links to comments about use and idiosyncrasies would be very helpful and it seems to me a ?buyer beware? notice could mitigate and mothership liability. Even though the documentation for using git is available, it is still a hurdle to overcome and does discourage input from many of us.

Adding a commenting capability seems like an ideal livecode application. The dictionary could be still on git with a link or inclusion of text from a commenting app with comments linked to the relevant entry. Information in comments might occasionally be incorporated into the main dictionary entry, then purged as appropriate.

It is also unhelpful the the user guide, accessed in the dictionary window, is not searchable.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jan 21, 2019, at 12:13 PM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Oh, fruit-flavoured socks . . .
> 
> If many developers do not trust Microsoft, who can change their term anytime, and
> no one knows what they will do . . .
> 
> One could wonder about the same sort of thing about other software manufacturers;
> even those who keep changing their commercial licensing arrangements in a way that
> sometimes seems haphazard and unpredictable . . .
> 
> Trusting software developers, especially developers on who one's own efforts depend is always
> going to be an "iffy" thing, but so, then, is almost everything in life one has to rely on
> that involves other people; so worrying about Microsoft, if one spends too much time on
> it can become fairly unhealthy: and what about Apple, Canonical, and so on and so forth?
> 
> -----
> 
> My objection to bunging user stuff for the LiveCode dictionary on GitHub has nothing to
> do with Microsoft, but has a lot to do with accessibility.
> 
> Way back when with LiveCode 4.5 end-user comments/feedback/hints in the Dictionary
> appeared almost as soon as someone who added them opened LC while they were connected
> to the internet . . .
> 
> I also (possibly incorrectly) had a feeling those comments "came through" unfiltered by the mothership.
> 
> Now I would suppose stuff going to GitHub does not get rolled into the Dictionary until the
> next LC release, and only if the mothership lieutenants approve it.
> 
> Now, if I am messing around "trying to be clever" with LiveCode I generally need and am grateful for
> all the help I can get: and if Fred Flintstone (that well-known LC developer) found something out
> this morning which will serve me well this afternoon I have no great urge to wait 6-8 weeks for
> that to filter through to me.
> 
> So . . . it would be lovely if, unless there are serious objections,
> the Dictionary inwith LiveCode to regain its previous functionality so we can help each other
> just that wee bit more.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> On 21.01.19 0:22, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
>> Many developers do not trust Microsoft, and neither do I.
>> Things may be fine right now, but it is the future that
>> concerns me more.  They can change their terms at
>> anytime, and no one knows what they will do.
>> 
>> Just a word of caution.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Rick Harrison wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I do not believe most of LC?s users are interested in signing up
>>>> for GitHub and having to sign an agreement with new owner Microsoft
>>>> too.
>>> In what way has Girhub's TOS been changed after Microsoft's acquisition which would be a concern to LiveCode developers?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Jan 21 17:44:03 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 16:44:03 -0600
Subject: global is empty
In-Reply-To: <d9d02c64-30a8-6996-28df-7c24082a3448@krutt.org>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
	<9c58003a-8b1f-478e-b61b-3cb9c5812971@Spark>
	<d9d02c64-30a8-6996-28df-7c24082a3448@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <877c6e1b-29b8-a79e-bab6-20957c77e37a@hyperactivesw.com>

On 1/21/19 12:06 PM, JJS via use-livecode wrote:
> Foolishly i putted this global behind the locals on the top line. And 
> blindly trusting myself that it was correct i did not notice it.

I didn't realize the order mattered. Seems like it shouldn't.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan 21 19:25:51 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:25:51 -0500
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>


Graham:

 > a conflict between the ?everyone can code? philosophy [...]
 > and the perceived need to be more professional and serious as a
 > player in the whole software development arena.

Well-said!

Nor should it be assumed that pros and trend-chasers are always 
serious/correct and others are not - I've seen some sloppy "pros" and 
some excellent beginners. People at all levels of software or LC can do 
a great job. (Or not.)

Likewise the trap of assuming that following new trends always brings 
better results. Imagine a Venn diagram between software innovations, 
trends, and another important factor such as quality or efficiency. 
Sometimes or some situations they go together, sometimes not.

 > but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of the kind of user
 > who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works, for example by
 > deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and UI elements

I wasn't aware of a plan or push to deprecate those - I don't follow all 
threads, but I emphatically hope not; bad idea! I want LC stacks to 
remain stacks. Easy to use and learn, self-contained, smart.

Git is also smart, very useful for many situations, but not superior in 
all situations. There are trade-offs, just as there are with agile dev. 
Savvy people are aware of pros and cons. Trend-chasers: maybe not aware. 
Good to have both options.

(If this is referencing my own remarks about mixing data and UI for 
files saved at compiled runtime, that's a completely different matter.)

 > cancelling of the ability of these ordinary users to add notes
 > to the dictionary

Yep, it's worthwhile to keep LC 6 handy for those notes! Highly 
valuable. Continuing user comments for LC 9+ would be a smart move.

Richmond:

 > worrying about Microsoft, if one spends too much time on it can
 > become fairly unhealthy: and what about Apple, Canonical, and
 > so on and so forth?

Tribal identity marketing; be careful for people coming after you with 
OS logos and pitchforks, but I totally agree. Tribalism mindset works 
pretty well for group survival, but fails at most other things including 
accurate assessments. Fun social experiment: "MS and Apple are not 
nearly as different as their fans like to think." :D

 > the Dictionary inwith LiveCode to regain its previous functionality
 > so we can help each other just that wee bit more.

Yep, that would be helpful.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Mon Jan 21 20:07:34 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 01:07:34 +0000
Subject: Opening a url in an external browser on mobile?
Message-ID: <B4F9521C-E769-4AC5-A8E9-A42FEEB709F2@unimelb.edu.au>

After going to the trouble of implementing a mobile browser widget I?ve decided that I?d prefer to open and display the url in the user?s default browser. I?m assuming this is possible (?) but can?t work out how to do it. Any ideas?

Terry...

From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Mon Jan 21 20:10:59 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 01:10:59 +0000
Subject: Opening a url in an external browser on mobile? (ignore - launch
	works after all)
Message-ID: <6863EBEB-9156-4C46-BC34-6433D33FEB85@unimelb.edu.au>

So (answering my own question) - it seems that I misread the dictionary and that launch is also supported on mobile.

Terry...

?On 22/01/2019 12:08 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    After going to the trouble of implementing a mobile browser widget I?ve decided that I?d prefer to open and display the url in the user?s default browser. I?m assuming this is possible (?) but can?t work out how to do it. Any ideas?
    
    Terry...
    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    


From brian at milby7.com  Mon Jan 21 20:10:46 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:10:46 -0600
Subject: Opening a url in an external browser on mobile?
In-Reply-To: <B4F9521C-E769-4AC5-A8E9-A42FEEB709F2@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <B4F9521C-E769-4AC5-A8E9-A42FEEB709F2@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <a8369963-9f8e-4c57-a4a8-9586c93e72f4@Spark>

revGoUrl

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 21, 2019, 7:08 PM -0600, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> After going to the trouble of implementing a mobile browser widget I?ve decided that I?d prefer to open and display the url in the user?s default browser. I?m assuming this is possible (?) but can?t work out how to do it. Any ideas?
>
> Terry...
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Mon Jan 21 20:16:55 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:16:55 -0600
Subject: Opening a url in an external browser on mobile? (ignore -
	launch works after all)
In-Reply-To: <6863EBEB-9156-4C46-BC34-6433D33FEB85@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <6863EBEB-9156-4C46-BC34-6433D33FEB85@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <d4263d9f-c4a2-4d7d-8948-c8ffb96a7625@Spark>

Yes, you are correct.

By the way, even though revGoUrl was deprecated, it should now work on mobile since the Common Library is now available there.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 21, 2019, 7:11 PM -0600, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> So (answering my own question) - it seems that I misread the dictionary and that launch is also supported on mobile.
>
> Terry...
>
> On 22/01/2019 12:08 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> After going to the trouble of implementing a mobile browser widget I?ve decided that I?d prefer to open and display the url in the user?s default browser. I?m assuming this is possible (?) but can?t work out how to do it. Any ideas?
>
> Terry...
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Mon Jan 21 20:26:22 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 01:26:22 +0000
Subject: Opening a url in an external browser on mobile? (ignore - launch
	works after all)
In-Reply-To: <d4263d9f-c4a2-4d7d-8948-c8ffb96a7625@Spark>
References: <6863EBEB-9156-4C46-BC34-6433D33FEB85@unimelb.edu.au>
	<d4263d9f-c4a2-4d7d-8948-c8ffb96a7625@Spark>
Message-ID: <0C856823-5B66-4231-A746-A429ACAAC6D4@unimelb.edu.au>

Cool - thanks Brian.

Terry...

?On 22/01/2019 12:17 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Brian Milby via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    Yes, you are correct.
    
    By the way, even though revGoUrl was deprecated, it should now work on mobile since the Common Library is now available there.
    
    Thanks,
    Brian
    On Jan 21, 2019, 7:11 PM -0600, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
    > So (answering my own question) - it seems that I misread the dictionary and that launch is also supported on mobile.
    >
    > Terry...
    >
    > On 22/01/2019 12:08 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
    >
    > After going to the trouble of implementing a mobile browser widget I?ve decided that I?d prefer to open and display the url in the user?s default browser. I?m assuming this is possible (?) but can?t work out how to do it. Any ideas?
    >
    > Terry...
    > _______________________________________________
    > use-livecode mailing list
    > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > use-livecode mailing list
    > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    


From bogdanoff at me.com  Mon Jan 21 20:57:54 2019
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 17:57:54 -0800
Subject: Opening a url in an external browser on mobile?
In-Reply-To: <a8369963-9f8e-4c57-a4a8-9586c93e72f4@Spark>
References: <B4F9521C-E769-4AC5-A8E9-A42FEEB709F2@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a8369963-9f8e-4c57-a4a8-9586c93e72f4@Spark>
Message-ID: <0AADCF71-6EEA-4574-9AE2-DF05896E77D1@me.com>

According to the dictionary, revGoURL is deprecated. Says to use launch URL instead.

Peter


> On Jan 21, 2019, at 5:10 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> revGoUrl
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Jan 21, 2019, 7:08 PM -0600, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> After going to the trouble of implementing a mobile browser widget I?ve decided that I?d prefer to open and display the url in the user?s default browser. I?m assuming this is possible (?) but can?t work out how to do it. Any ideas?
>> 
>> Terry...
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 06:40:17 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 11:40:17 +0000
Subject: Thoughts on Livecode Server
In-Reply-To: <1e9d462d36c9bd5436371d07cf4c476c@livecode.com>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
	<CAGASioMUVPdM6dgVOUZquD1mpqJM4FtKciAwr_tjEBMSEE7xCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e9d462d36c9bd5436371d07cf4c476c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMPd0KEWRx1WoP5y1b_Bkeympd8h=Zhst0mssdC0Q1kgw@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have any thoughts on where Livecode server should go / is going?

I thought I'd throw out a few things that have been on my mind to see what
other people are thinking and where the actual underlying technology is
heading. Context - I use Livecode server and Revigniter - but not to the
full ability and I'm looking to improve the way I host things and plan a
strategy moving forwards.

*Full power of Livecode?*
My first question is what are the actual limits of what you can do on the
server, as compared with the desktop version? I haven't pushed this to the
limit so maybe yo have?

For instance if I want to integrate Javascript / node.js code into my
server, can I use the built in two way communication between Javascript and
Livecode? This also leads on to the more general question about the
headless Livecode environment of the server - are then any limits to script
that does stuff like create a stack, add a browser element to the stack,
set behaviors, communicate with the newly created stack (and hence
Javascript, destroy the stack and return a result to the browser?

I'll be testing this soon, but are there limits to this approach (apart
form speed)?

*Emscripten export?*
How about using the exported javascript in the server? Could we have a
node.js based server which server-side uses the big fat Livecode javascript
engine, and exported Livecode HTML5 exported stacks as server side code?

*Livecode Docker behind reverse proxy*
This is sort of the default I would say in moving on from Nginx or Apache
based hosting of Livecode server. Does anyone have any plans / experience
of doing this?


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 07:19:45 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 12:19:45 +0000
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm working on a solution for this - it's kind of ambitious and won't be
ready to share publicly for about 3 months at a guess - but I'm happy to
share it with anyone  who want to use GitHub and get deep into the issue.

*Quick outline of dictionary strategy*

   1. It should be collaborative with the minimal possible barrier to entry
   (wikipedia style)
   2. It should be personal - every user is totally free to write and
   over-write their own notes / take on the content. (decentralised version
   control - aka git strategy)
   3. It should be organised - that is all the version developers use to
   write on, should integrate functionally into the git-workflow editorial
   managed by the mothership.
   4. It should be useful in your own projects and integrated into
   developer workflow - that means the script editor

The elements come together in an architecture where we create personal
project wiki's for the software a developer is working on directly from the
script editor - with wiki pages for projects, stacks, scripts and handlers.
These project wiki's should be self-contained but link to the general
Livecode Dictionary. Should you wish to personalise / write more extensive
notes than available in the "Livecode Dictionary" you can fork teh page to
create your own personalised version.

*Some basic data structure concepts*

   1. The dictionary content should be directly useable by Livecode and a
   web browser
   2. The dictionary content should take full advantage of multimedia
   content including audio and video
   3. The dictionary content should be standards based, work with version
   control, and be capable of things like digital signatures and other metadata
   4. The dictionary content should be licensed with a Wikipedia compatible
   license so that we can mix in Wikipedia and similar content on software
   development

To that end I've decided to standardise on a JSON format - as both the web
browser, and Livecode can process it fast. I use a node project for the
online version, and have a range of tools for publishing directly from the
script editor, and importing Wikipedia content.

*Collaboration and feedback*
Would be great to have feedback on this strategy. My guess is it might not
be clear, and that the only way to effectively communicate it will be a
short screencast. I hope to add that this week, and maybe make a quick
video demo. But the main thing to note - is all the code is open source and
on Github, and the content is all CC-by-SA 4.0
<https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/>. The design is to be able
to run it locally, and collaborate online - so you can do your own thing.
Even host a server yourself.

Thoughts? Feedback on this?


On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 00:26, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Graham:
>
>  > a conflict between the ?everyone can code? philosophy [...]
>  > and the perceived need to be more professional and serious as a
>  > player in the whole software development arena.
>
> Well-said!
>
> Nor should it be assumed that pros and trend-chasers are always
> serious/correct and others are not - I've seen some sloppy "pros" and
> some excellent beginners. People at all levels of software or LC can do
> a great job. (Or not.)
>
> Likewise the trap of assuming that following new trends always brings
> better results. Imagine a Venn diagram between software innovations,
> trends, and another important factor such as quality or efficiency.
> Sometimes or some situations they go together, sometimes not.
>
>  > but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of the kind of user
>  > who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works, for example by
>  > deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and UI elements
>
> I wasn't aware of a plan or push to deprecate those - I don't follow all
> threads, but I emphatically hope not; bad idea! I want LC stacks to
> remain stacks. Easy to use and learn, self-contained, smart.
>
> Git is also smart, very useful for many situations, but not superior in
> all situations. There are trade-offs, just as there are with agile dev.
> Savvy people are aware of pros and cons. Trend-chasers: maybe not aware.
> Good to have both options.
>
> (If this is referencing my own remarks about mixing data and UI for
> files saved at compiled runtime, that's a completely different matter.)
>
>  > cancelling of the ability of these ordinary users to add notes
>  > to the dictionary
>
> Yep, it's worthwhile to keep LC 6 handy for those notes! Highly
> valuable. Continuing user comments for LC 9+ would be a smart move.
>
> Richmond:
>
>  > worrying about Microsoft, if one spends too much time on it can
>  > become fairly unhealthy: and what about Apple, Canonical, and
>  > so on and so forth?
>
> Tribal identity marketing; be careful for people coming after you with
> OS logos and pitchforks, but I totally agree. Tribalism mindset works
> pretty well for group survival, but fails at most other things including
> accurate assessments. Fun social experiment: "MS and Apple are not
> nearly as different as their fans like to think." :D
>
>  > the Dictionary inwith LiveCode to regain its previous functionality
>  > so we can help each other just that wee bit more.
>
> Yep, that would be helpful.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bob at bobhall.net  Tue Jan 22 07:28:21 2019
From: bob at bobhall.net (bob at bobhall.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 07:28:21 -0500
Subject: Script Editor Performance
Message-ID: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>

The script editor in Livecode is absolutely horrid performance wise. There plenty of issues but the scrolling performance bothers me to no end ? AGAIN!

I develop on a 3 year old iMac 27? with 24G of ram. The Livecode IDE is by far the worst IDE/Script Editor that I use (sorry to say). I?m finding lately that developing in Livecode to be a frustrating experience compared to other tools that I use (yes I know and use Atom and Sublime).

I just searched quality.livecode.com <http://quality.livecode.com/> and see no bugs open on performance issues related to the Script Editor. This surprises me. Maybe I?m just not finding the bug reports??

I went in and looked at some code I fixed a couple of years ago. Based on what?s been done, there?s a difference of opinion between myself and the team that maintains the Script Editor code. I can see that changes have been made that cause the UX issues I?m seeing (along with a bug in the code that I?ve found). I?ve changed the code to the way I think things should be done on my local machine and LC script editor is almost usable again. 

I?d love to get some feedback on one of my fixes. I?m not seeing any issues but I need to get feedback across a few machines (Windows/Linux) to confirm my changes before creating a pull request. If you are an advanced user and are willing to hack up a file within the Application bundle, shoot me a note and I?ll get you one specific change I made that I think you?ll agree is a benefit. In 1 week I?ve not seen any negative side effect. Fingers crossed...

Bob H.



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 07:50:50 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 12:50:50 +0000
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
References: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPsdhdABj+kiHiCjoXvcKPA24tA+jhmFvLKZP09PF+c6w@mail.gmail.com>

My guess on this is that it is a basic field issue. One of the most
frequent crashes I get is if in testing I put some data in the msg box. If
the data is unusually large, everything jams. Only a force-quit gets you
out of that.

I wonder if when we have native field objects - that this might be the real
long term solution - though I don't know what the idea with regard that is
for fields on desktop - but certainly leaning on the OS to handle stuff
like that without the performance issues for large amounts of data could be
the "fix" that we need / is planned?

On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 12:28, bob--- via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The script editor in Livecode is absolutely horrid performance wise. There
> plenty of issues but the scrolling performance bothers me to no end ? AGAIN!
>
> I develop on a 3 year old iMac 27? with 24G of ram. The Livecode IDE is by
> far the worst IDE/Script Editor that I use (sorry to say). I?m finding
> lately that developing in Livecode to be a frustrating experience compared
> to other tools that I use (yes I know and use Atom and Sublime).
>
> I just searched quality.livecode.com <http://quality.livecode.com/> and
> see no bugs open on performance issues related to the Script Editor. This
> surprises me. Maybe I?m just not finding the bug reports??
>
> I went in and looked at some code I fixed a couple of years ago. Based on
> what?s been done, there?s a difference of opinion between myself and the
> team that maintains the Script Editor code. I can see that changes have
> been made that cause the UX issues I?m seeing (along with a bug in the code
> that I?ve found). I?ve changed the code to the way I think things should be
> done on my local machine and LC script editor is almost usable again.
>
> I?d love to get some feedback on one of my fixes. I?m not seeing any
> issues but I need to get feedback across a few machines (Windows/Linux) to
> confirm my changes before creating a pull request. If you are an advanced
> user and are willing to hack up a file within the Application bundle, shoot
> me a note and I?ll get you one specific change I made that I think you?ll
> agree is a benefit. In 1 week I?ve not seen any negative side effect.
> Fingers crossed...
>
> Bob H.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bob at bobhall.net  Tue Jan 22 08:31:44 2019
From: bob at bobhall.net (bob at bobhall.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:31:44 -0500
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPsdhdABj+kiHiCjoXvcKPA24tA+jhmFvLKZP09PF+c6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
	<CAGASioPsdhdABj+kiHiCjoXvcKPA24tA+jhmFvLKZP09PF+c6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B57055BB-469B-45AE-A5DA-AB4587070234@bobhall.net>

The change I made is in the Script Editor which is not related to the message box. It?s a UX/performance issue that I?ve fixed. Nothing related to crashing at all. More of a difference in opinion I guess. My way is much better ? for me anyways :-) I?m betting others will agree though.

 I?ve not looked at the message box at all. I?m obsessed with the Script Editor specifically. Not sure the message box was designed for unusually large text being pasted in either. I suspect there is a limit to the number of characters in the field being pasted into. Before you paste the text in get a character count of the text. It would be helpful in your case to determine just how big is too big.

Bob


> On Jan 22, 2019, at 7:50 AM, David Bovill <david.bovill at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> My guess on this is that it is a basic field issue. One of the most frequent crashes I get is if in testing I put some data in the msg box. If the data is unusually large, everything jams. Only a force-quit gets you out of that.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Jan 22 08:51:57 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 14:51:57 +0100
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
References: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
Message-ID: <BA6367B7-472A-4146-B9C9-FF1C66CBBED8@m-r-d.de>


> 
> I?d love to get some feedback on one of my fixes. I?m not seeing any issues but I need to get feedback across a few machines (Windows/Linux) to confirm my changes before creating a pull request. If you are an advanced user and are willing to hack up a file within the Application bundle, shoot me a note and I?ll get you one specific change I made that I think you?ll agree is a benefit. In 1 week I?ve not seen any negative side effect. Fingers crossed...
> 

So how can one help? Can you provide a d/l from where one could download the "fixed" files?

Matthias

> Bob H.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 09:13:01 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 14:13:01 +0000
Subject: HTML entity escaping?
In-Reply-To: <3F03552E-12BF-40D5-885D-6089A7F009DA@iotecdigital.com>
References: <mailman.1.1546167601.3933.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<8971A25A-F836-45A0-8504-9A72BC8BC83C@derbrill.de>
	<CAGASioOq93Yw=0cJ8+eivu+1x80kOx0yUkRSw=XTQZwqJmk+-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<7A4B0993-CD58-4244-B4A7-F1C6C7756392@byu.edu>
	<CAGASioPmEnNk77KFuKhFJnaVK2KQQE788FF7h5HHwERDYVcAmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A1AC1D72-55CA-44B6-B41D-FFEE5D113323@m-r-d.de>
	<3F03552E-12BF-40D5-885D-6089A7F009DA@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioNUL3xuvcLbs3Mmm0c1tj+O00OOt_NOz-Fz+gc_iYMv9A@mail.gmail.com>

Yes - sorry about that - copy and paste from Script Editor to Chrome now
seems to bring across all the formatting - I'll get rid of it next time.

Richard - thanks for the tip regarding using the template field - I was
wondering if that would work on the server (see my latest post) - I think
it's a direction I should go into as why code it when the engine can do it
for you :)


On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 at 15:35, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Something about copy/paste into Thunderbird.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 10, 2019, at 04:50 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > is there a reason for all the * in the script?
> >
> > Makes it difficult  to read and uneeded work to get it correct in the SE.
> >
> > Matthias Rebbe
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From dunbarx at aol.com  Tue Jan 22 09:37:38 2019
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarxx)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:37:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
References: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
Message-ID: <1548167858101-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi.

Something you must consider. 

On the forum "Jerky Script Editor Scrolling".

Some fonts scroll far smoother than others.

Craig Newman




--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From brian at milby7.com  Tue Jan 22 09:39:44 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:39:44 -0600
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
	<CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53664eb0-3e6a-4f31-b54d-70e83026b2fe@Spark>

Two comments initially:

That license will not allow inclusion into the LiceCode dictionary as it requires any derivative works to carry the same license. ?For integration into the LiveCode project a CLA will need to be signed by each author and their contributions also submitted with copyright assigned to the company.

The dictionary uses markdown as the source format. ?To be easy to integrate, it would be a good idea to use that as the storage/native format of contributions.

Sounds much more ambitious than what I was thinking about (trying to figure out how to leverage the TinyDictionary notes feature for collaboration). ?Looking forward to seeing more.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 22, 2019, 6:20 AM -0600, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I'm working on a solution for this - it's kind of ambitious and won't be
> ready to share publicly for about 3 months at a guess - but I'm happy to
> share it with anyone who want to use GitHub and get deep into the issue.
>
> *Quick outline of dictionary strategy*
>
> 1. It should be collaborative with the minimal possible barrier to entry
> (wikipedia style)
> 2. It should be personal - every user is totally free to write and
> over-write their own notes / take on the content. (decentralised version
> control - aka git strategy)
> 3. It should be organised - that is all the version developers use to
> write on, should integrate functionally into the git-workflow editorial
> managed by the mothership.
> 4. It should be useful in your own projects and integrated into
> developer workflow - that means the script editor
>
> The elements come together in an architecture where we create personal
> project wiki's for the software a developer is working on directly from the
> script editor - with wiki pages for projects, stacks, scripts and handlers.
> These project wiki's should be self-contained but link to the general
> Livecode Dictionary. Should you wish to personalise / write more extensive
> notes than available in the "Livecode Dictionary" you can fork teh page to
> create your own personalised version.
>
> *Some basic data structure concepts*
>
> 1. The dictionary content should be directly useable by Livecode and a
> web browser
> 2. The dictionary content should take full advantage of multimedia
> content including audio and video
> 3. The dictionary content should be standards based, work with version
> control, and be capable of things like digital signatures and other metadata
> 4. The dictionary content should be licensed with a Wikipedia compatible
> license so that we can mix in Wikipedia and similar content on software
> development
>
> To that end I've decided to standardise on a JSON format - as both the web
> browser, and Livecode can process it fast. I use a node project for the
> online version, and have a range of tools for publishing directly from the
> script editor, and importing Wikipedia content.
>
> *Collaboration and feedback*
> Would be great to have feedback on this strategy. My guess is it might not
> be clear, and that the only way to effectively communicate it will be a
> short screencast. I hope to add that this week, and maybe make a quick
> video demo. But the main thing to note - is all the code is open source and
> on Github, and the content is all CC-by-SA 4.0
> <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/>. The design is to be able
> to run it locally, and collaborate online - so you can do your own thing.
> Even host a server yourself.
>
> Thoughts? Feedback on this?
>
>
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 00:26, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Graham:
> >
> > > a conflict between the ?everyone can code? philosophy [...]
> > > and the perceived need to be more professional and serious as a
> > > player in the whole software development arena.
> >
> > Well-said!
> >
> > Nor should it be assumed that pros and trend-chasers are always
> > serious/correct and others are not - I've seen some sloppy "pros" and
> > some excellent beginners. People at all levels of software or LC can do
> > a great job. (Or not.)
> >
> > Likewise the trap of assuming that following new trends always brings
> > better results. Imagine a Venn diagram between software innovations,
> > trends, and another important factor such as quality or efficiency.
> > Sometimes or some situations they go together, sometimes not.
> >
> > > but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of the kind of user
> > > who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works, for example by
> > > deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and UI elements
> >
> > I wasn't aware of a plan or push to deprecate those - I don't follow all
> > threads, but I emphatically hope not; bad idea! I want LC stacks to
> > remain stacks. Easy to use and learn, self-contained, smart.
> >
> > Git is also smart, very useful for many situations, but not superior in
> > all situations. There are trade-offs, just as there are with agile dev.
> > Savvy people are aware of pros and cons. Trend-chasers: maybe not aware.
> > Good to have both options.
> >
> > (If this is referencing my own remarks about mixing data and UI for
> > files saved at compiled runtime, that's a completely different matter.)
> >
> > > cancelling of the ability of these ordinary users to add notes
> > > to the dictionary
> >
> > Yep, it's worthwhile to keep LC 6 handy for those notes! Highly
> > valuable. Continuing user comments for LC 9+ would be a smart move.
> >
> > Richmond:
> >
> > > worrying about Microsoft, if one spends too much time on it can
> > > become fairly unhealthy: and what about Apple, Canonical, and
> > > so on and so forth?
> >
> > Tribal identity marketing; be careful for people coming after you with
> > OS logos and pitchforks, but I totally agree. Tribalism mindset works
> > pretty well for group survival, but fails at most other things including
> > accurate assessments. Fun social experiment: "MS and Apple are not
> > nearly as different as their fans like to think." :D
> >
> > > the Dictionary inwith LiveCode to regain its previous functionality
> > > so we can help each other just that wee bit more.
> >
> > Yep, that would be helpful.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Curry Kenworthy
> >
> > Custom Software Development
> > "Better Methods, Better Results"
> > LiveCode Training and Consulting
> > http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Tue Jan 22 09:50:04 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:50:04 -0600
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
References: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
Message-ID: <a4c96ba9-bafb-49c4-90b4-3ba455567337@Spark>

Bob,

You could just create the branch on your fork of the engine/IDE and post that. ?I?ve not been doing as much over the past few weeks but would be game to make a change and test (even build a version with it). ?I will say that I have not noticed that much of an issue but my code projects are not that large (ScriptTracker probably has the most lines in any one object).

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 22, 2019, 6:29 AM -0600, bob--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> The script editor in Livecode is absolutely horrid performance wise. There plenty of issues but the scrolling performance bothers me to no end ? AGAIN!
>
> I develop on a 3 year old iMac 27? with 24G of ram. The Livecode IDE is by far the worst IDE/Script Editor that I use (sorry to say). I?m finding lately that developing in Livecode to be a frustrating experience compared to other tools that I use (yes I know and use Atom and Sublime).
>
> I just searched quality.livecode.com <http://quality.livecode.com/> and see no bugs open on performance issues related to the Script Editor. This surprises me. Maybe I?m just not finding the bug reports??
>
> I went in and looked at some code I fixed a couple of years ago. Based on what?s been done, there?s a difference of opinion between myself and the team that maintains the Script Editor code. I can see that changes have been made that cause the UX issues I?m seeing (along with a bug in the code that I?ve found). I?ve changed the code to the way I think things should be done on my local machine and LC script editor is almost usable again.
>
> I?d love to get some feedback on one of my fixes. I?m not seeing any issues but I need to get feedback across a few machines (Windows/Linux) to confirm my changes before creating a pull request. If you are an advanced user and are willing to hack up a file within the Application bundle, shoot me a note and I?ll get you one specific change I made that I think you?ll agree is a benefit. In 1 week I?ve not seen any negative side effect. Fingers crossed...
>
> Bob H.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From livfoss at mac.com  Tue Jan 22 10:15:08 2019
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:15:08 +0100
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
Message-ID: <F81AB955-711C-45F1-95F4-A2871B42A8A4@mac.com>

Just to clarify, I didn?t really mean to suggest that there was a plan - it?s just that a lot of the creative energy around LC and its development seems to be going away from this as if it were bad, basically because it?s hard to do version control on binary stacks, as far as I can see. I do understand that separating UI elements and code is good practice, but for many types of projects it can be taken too far, I think. I am all for libraries, for example, but I don?t want to strip my stacks right down to a graphical shell. LC and its predecessors aren?t really designed for that - they are essentially systems where interaction with graphic elements via a message path is the key idea, which means that there **must** be some level of scripting at the UI level. To try to suggest that good practice takes that away completely, or as near completely as ingenuity can make it, seems to me a distortion of an really excellent model of interaction - but that?s just my opinion, of course.

Graham

> On 22 Jan 2019, at 01:25, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> > but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of the kind of user
> > who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works, for example by
> > deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and UI elements
> 
> I wasn't aware of a plan or push to deprecate those - I don't follow all threads, but I emphatically hope not; bad idea! I want LC stacks to remain stacks. Easy to use and learn, self-contained, smart.



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Tue Jan 22 10:53:39 2019
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 07:53:39 -0800
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <F81AB955-711C-45F1-95F4-A2871B42A8A4@mac.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
	<F81AB955-711C-45F1-95F4-A2871B42A8A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <693FCB29-0F71-4B99-812D-31F58FBCF9C9@earthlearningsolutions.org>

It sounds very ambitious. My main suggestion was for a shareable user additions part of the dictionary that could be incorporated into the main dictionary at some later date, if useful. It is so common to see user comments on web content, that I don?t see how there could be a problem with licensing. Of course, comments would need to be limited to valid users, to avoid spammers. There could even be a star rating system to identify particularly useful comments.

For this project, I personally would recommend keeping it as simple as possible and keeping a wall between the main vetted part of the dictionary and the user comments, until a revision, using git, that incorporates the information from the user comments is performed.

That said, I really appreciate the thoughtful ideas and help that regularly get posted on this list.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Jan 22, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just to clarify, I didn?t really mean to suggest that there was a plan - it?s just that a lot of the creative energy around LC and its development seems to be going away from this as if it were bad, basically because it?s hard to do version control on binary stacks, as far as I can see. I do understand that separating UI elements and code is good practice, but for many types of projects it can be taken too far, I think. I am all for libraries, for example, but I don?t want to strip my stacks right down to a graphical shell. LC and its predecessors aren?t really designed for that - they are essentially systems where interaction with graphic elements via a message path is the key idea, which means that there **must** be some level of scripting at the UI level. To try to suggest that good practice takes that away completely, or as near completely as ingenuity can make it, seems to me a distortion of an really excellent model of interaction - but that?s just my opinion, of course.
> 
> Graham
> 
>>> On 22 Jan 2019, at 01:25, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of the kind of user
>>> who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works, for example by
>>> deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and UI elements
>> 
>> I wasn't aware of a plan or push to deprecate those - I don't follow all threads, but I emphatically hope not; bad idea! I want LC stacks to remain stacks. Easy to use and learn, self-contained, smart.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 11:52:02 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:52:02 +0000
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <53664eb0-3e6a-4f31-b54d-70e83026b2fe@Spark>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
	<CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<53664eb0-3e6a-4f31-b54d-70e83026b2fe@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAGASioNWXVyAXTJiLFzp=ZFr-obkVQekgETb+0NqaBbUELaYMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 14:40, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> That license will not allow inclusion into the LiceCode dictionary as it
> requires any derivative works to carry the same license.  For integration
> into the LiveCode project a CLA will need to be signed by each author and
> their contributions also submitted with copyright assigned to the company.
>

The documentation license is GPLv3 (with a modification for  ATL and
OpenSSL). It's not an ideal license for documentation - should probably
changed to make things clearer but "on October 8, 2015, Creative Commons
concluded
<https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/licensing-considerations/compatible-licenses/>
that the CC BY-SA <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC_BY-SA> 4.0 is inbound
compatible with the GPLv3". I also spoke with Kevin from the Mothership a
couple of times about this issue, and AFAIK there is not intention to
restrict the use / remix of the documentation in this way - ie using with
other so called free culture content such as Wikipedia. Here are a few
links:

   - https://bit.ly/2FQfkvH

Certainly more complicated is the flow back to the mothership for including
the content in the closed source (commercial) distributions - for that we'd
need the CLA, and some sort of care taken to NOT include Wikipedia content
but only completely rewritten content. I'd certainly like to do that - so
getting authors to sign the CLA would be useful to figure out for the
community side of things.

The dictionary uses markdown as the source format.  To be easy to
> integrate, it would be a good idea to use that as the storage/native format
> of contributions.


Yes - within the json we store Github flavoured markdown. It seems to me
that the documentation is not in markdown though?

   -
   https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/function/URLEncode.lcdoc


From brian at milby7.com  Tue Jan 22 12:01:16 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 11:01:16 -0600
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioNWXVyAXTJiLFzp=ZFr-obkVQekgETb+0NqaBbUELaYMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
	<CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<53664eb0-3e6a-4f31-b54d-70e83026b2fe@Spark>
	<CAGASioNWXVyAXTJiLFzp=ZFr-obkVQekgETb+0NqaBbUELaYMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <783bc36d-d667-4d53-a3bd-b9d64182dab5@Spark>

GFM syntax is used, but it does go through additional processing before being turned into what we see in the IDE. ?All of that code resides in the IDE so it can be leveraged to process the updates. ?I actually modified a stack that can allow the editing of a doc and then preview it in a browser. ?I?ll need to find where that is posted and link here for reference this evening.

For license, I was only referring to the flow back into the main project which has the dual commercial/GPL license.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 22, 2019, 10:52 AM -0600, David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 14:40, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > That license will not allow inclusion into the LiceCode dictionary as it
> > requires any derivative works to carry the same license. For integration
> > into the LiveCode project a CLA will need to be signed by each author and
> > their contributions also submitted with copyright assigned to the company.
> >
>
> The documentation license is GPLv3 (with a modification for ATL and
> OpenSSL). It's not an ideal license for documentation - should probably
> changed to make things clearer but "on October 8, 2015, Creative Commons
> concluded
> <https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/licensing-considerations/compatible-licenses/>
> that the CC BY-SA <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC_BY-SA> 4.0 is inbound
> compatible with the GPLv3". I also spoke with Kevin from the Mothership a
> couple of times about this issue, and AFAIK there is not intention to
> restrict the use / remix of the documentation in this way - ie using with
> other so called free culture content such as Wikipedia. Here are a few
> links:
>
> - https://bit.ly/2FQfkvH
>
> Certainly more complicated is the flow back to the mothership for including
> the content in the closed source (commercial) distributions - for that we'd
> need the CLA, and some sort of care taken to NOT include Wikipedia content
> but only completely rewritten content. I'd certainly like to do that - so
> getting authors to sign the CLA would be useful to figure out for the
> community side of things.
>
> The dictionary uses markdown as the source format. To be easy to
> > integrate, it would be a good idea to use that as the storage/native format
> > of contributions.
>
>
> Yes - within the json we store Github flavoured markdown. It seems to me
> that the documentation is not in markdown though?
>
> -
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/function/URLEncode.lcdoc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mark.laffoon at mac.com  Tue Jan 22 12:17:42 2019
From: mark.laffoon at mac.com (Beetlejooce)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 11:17:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
References: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
Message-ID: <1548177462003-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

prothero--- via use-livecode wrote
> ...
> I?d love to get some feedback on one of my fixes. I?m not seeing any
> issues but I need to get feedback across a few machines (Windows/Linux) to
> confirm my changes before creating a pull request. If you are an advanced
> user and are willing to hack up a file within the Application bundle,
> shoot me a note and I?ll get you one specific change I made that I think
> you?ll agree is a benefit. In 1 week I?ve not seen any negative side
> effect. Fingers crossed...

I'd love to give your fix a try. I am also using a beefy pc and I'm beyond
frustrated with the lag in the editor. I can type an entire sentence before
I can see it!  I have tried with a clean plugin/extension folder and my
default one, with no noticeable difference.  I am very anxious to get this
fixed.




--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 22 12:54:26 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 17:54:26 +0000
Subject: Can a substack become the mainstack and the mainstack become
	its	substack?
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqLt+1+tcpN5VbtPjmsjt=8qJbfvoin8X5+ZHz0WYDEkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtqLt+1+tcpN5VbtPjmsjt=8qJbfvoin8X5+ZHz0WYDEkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB94EE06-4849-4152-88BA-04A68EDE0E22@iotecdigital.com>

You do not need to make the splash stack the mainstack. Just include the actual mainstack in the Stack Files of the splash screen stack, and when have code in the splash screen stack that opens the main stack. Then you can still keep your stack/substack structure of your project. 

Bob S


> On Jan 20, 2019, at 18:05 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Sure, just create the stack you want to use as the splash screen, and then
> set the mainstack of the current mainstack to the splash screen stack. I
> think this will fail if the mainstack has substacks of its own. So first
> change the substacks, then the mainstack. And if you are depending on the
> substacks being able to reference handlers/functions in the (current)
> mainstack, either move the handlers and functions to the new mainstack, or
> convert to a behavior stack and use that for everything.
> 
> gc




From jjs at krutt.org  Tue Jan 22 13:04:46 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 19:04:46 +0100
Subject: global is empty
In-Reply-To: <877c6e1b-29b8-a79e-bab6-20957c77e37a@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
	<9c58003a-8b1f-478e-b61b-3cb9c5812971@Spark>
	<d9d02c64-30a8-6996-28df-7c24082a3448@krutt.org>
	<877c6e1b-29b8-a79e-bab6-20957c77e37a@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1d13a1ac-4813-7140-89f6-591e4b98a29e@krutt.org>

no it should'nt you're right Jacque

only i forced myself months ago to put globals at the top and this stack 
script was already older and i had putted locals at the top, so i 
misplaced and overlooked 1 global

this was my fault, a global after some locals:

local tThis, tThat, tAnother, tAgain, gIWorkaslocalnow

global gI,gLike,gLive,gCode



Op 21-1-2019 om 23:44 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode:
> On 1/21/19 12:06 PM, JJS via use-livecode wrote:
>> Foolishly i putted this global behind the locals on the top line. And 
>> blindly trusting myself that it was correct i did not notice it.
>
> I didn't realize the order mattered. Seems like it shouldn't.
>



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 13:07:14 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:07:14 +0000
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <783bc36d-d667-4d53-a3bd-b9d64182dab5@Spark>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
	<CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<53664eb0-3e6a-4f31-b54d-70e83026b2fe@Spark>
	<CAGASioNWXVyAXTJiLFzp=ZFr-obkVQekgETb+0NqaBbUELaYMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<783bc36d-d667-4d53-a3bd-b9d64182dab5@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAGASioO3RK+fbyKPsntrVuhUNC_8PHFpjGbHyB-3y-XS3YzKRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Brian - if you have the tie to dig out that stack it would be great.
I have come across the handlers / libs a few times - but as its not
documented it takes a while to track down :)

It would be great to figure out how to get proper flow back to the main
project - so any thoughts on that would be great.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 17:03, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> GFM syntax is used, but it does go through additional processing before
> being turned into what we see in the IDE.  All of that code resides in the
> IDE so it can be leveraged to process the updates.  I actually modified a
> stack that can allow the editing of a doc and then preview it in a
> browser.  I?ll need to find where that is posted and link here for
> reference this evening.
>
> For license, I was only referring to the flow back into the main project
> which has the dual commercial/GPL license.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Jan 22, 2019, 10:52 AM -0600, David Bovill via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 14:40, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > That license will not allow inclusion into the LiceCode dictionary as
> it
> > > requires any derivative works to carry the same license. For
> integration
> > > into the LiveCode project a CLA will need to be signed by each author
> and
> > > their contributions also submitted with copyright assigned to the
> company.
> > >
> >
> > The documentation license is GPLv3 (with a modification for ATL and
> > OpenSSL). It's not an ideal license for documentation - should probably
> > changed to make things clearer but "on October 8, 2015, Creative Commons
> > concluded
> > <
> https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/licensing-considerations/compatible-licenses/
> >
> > that the CC BY-SA <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC_BY-SA> 4.0 is
> inbound
> > compatible with the GPLv3". I also spoke with Kevin from the Mothership a
> > couple of times about this issue, and AFAIK there is not intention to
> > restrict the use / remix of the documentation in this way - ie using with
> > other so called free culture content such as Wikipedia. Here are a few
> > links:
> >
> > - https://bit.ly/2FQfkvH
> >
> > Certainly more complicated is the flow back to the mothership for
> including
> > the content in the closed source (commercial) distributions - for that
> we'd
> > need the CLA, and some sort of care taken to NOT include Wikipedia
> content
> > but only completely rewritten content. I'd certainly like to do that - so
> > getting authors to sign the CLA would be useful to figure out for the
> > community side of things.
> >
> > The dictionary uses markdown as the source format. To be easy to
> > > integrate, it would be a good idea to use that as the storage/native
> format
> > > of contributions.
> >
> >
> > Yes - within the json we store Github flavoured markdown. It seems to me
> > that the documentation is not in markdown though?
> >
> > -
> >
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/function/URLEncode.lcdoc
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue Jan 22 14:14:13 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 14:14:13 -0500
Subject: Can a substack become the mainstack and the mainstack become its
	substack?
In-Reply-To: <AB94EE06-4849-4152-88BA-04A68EDE0E22@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAPzQJLL1_pHDcw5rhtzLdD-1ikG0EtNqisHD5ECuaQ37uqy5fQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtqLt+1+tcpN5VbtPjmsjt=8qJbfvoin8X5+ZHz0WYDEkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<AB94EE06-4849-4152-88BA-04A68EDE0E22@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLL=LtTwTjaUVrX0qsBv5o-9zfvFw+OdyXArOjujGtRpaw@mail.gmail.com>

Bob ...while I tested the previous solution ...I have not yet gone through
the implementation of it for real ........ but I think I will do what you
suggest.  It makes sense ...it should work as long as no handlers are
running on the main stack, I can replace its script. Thanks.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 12:54 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You do not need to make the splash stack the mainstack. Just include the
> actual mainstack in the Stack Files of the splash screen stack, and when
> have code in the splash screen stack that opens the main stack. Then you
> can still keep your stack/substack structure of your project.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 20, 2019, at 18:05 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Sure, just create the stack you want to use as the splash screen, and
> then
> > set the mainstack of the current mainstack to the splash screen stack. I
> > think this will fail if the mainstack has substacks of its own. So first
> > change the substacks, then the mainstack. And if you are depending on the
> > substacks being able to reference handlers/functions in the (current)
> > mainstack, either move the handlers and functions to the new mainstack,
> or
> > convert to a behavior stack and use that for everything.
> >
> > gc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Jan 22 14:51:16 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 19:51:16 +0000
Subject: Clearing the notification badge value on Android?
Message-ID: <40A2618F-7285-41AE-9714-1AE978D3D297@unimelb.edu.au>

On iOS you can clear the notification badge number using iPhoneSetNotificationBadgeValue (by setting it to zero), but how do you achieve the same thing on Android?

Terry...

From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Jan 22 16:01:36 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 21:01:36 +0000
Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service support
	class' error message
Message-ID: <1CACDCF8-12E9-4436-867C-9016EAD48A04@unimelb.edu.au>

I?m having a problem building/testing an Android app on one of my two development laptops (Macbook Air, LC 9.0.2, OSX Yosemite) ? it comes up with the following error message...

Unable to build app for testing: could not compile service support class.

It seems to work fine on another laptop with a similar setup (the only difference being that it is running OSX Mojave) ? same Android Studio setup and Java version installed.

Any ideas?

Terry...

From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Jan 22 16:15:42 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:15:42 -0500
Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service
	support	class' error message
In-Reply-To: <1CACDCF8-12E9-4436-867C-9016EAD48A04@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <1CACDCF8-12E9-4436-867C-9016EAD48A04@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <006c01d4b297$a52a36c0$ef7ea440$@net>

I've seen similar messages when building for mobile. I enable the IDE stacks in prefs then search for the error string and look at the result of the previous operation. Usually the reason for the fail is apparent. Not pretty but fast. (one of the advantages of having the IDE written in LCS)

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Terry Judd via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:02 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Terry Judd
Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service support class' error message

I?m having a problem building/testing an Android app on one of my two development laptops (Macbook Air, LC 9.0.2, OSX Yosemite) ? it comes up with the following error message...

Unable to build app for testing: could not compile service support class.

It seems to work fine on another laptop with a similar setup (the only difference being that it is running OSX Mojave) ? same Android Studio setup and Java version installed.

Any ideas?

Terry...
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Jan 22 17:58:16 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:58:16 +0000
Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service support
	class' error message
In-Reply-To: <006c01d4b297$a52a36c0$ef7ea440$@net>
References: <1CACDCF8-12E9-4436-867C-9016EAD48A04@unimelb.edu.au>
	<006c01d4b297$a52a36c0$ef7ea440$@net>
Message-ID: <7BA8321E-ED74-4ACA-AB68-D7E971C57CED@unimelb.edu.au>

Thanks Ralph - so, I enabled the Livecode UI stacks in the pref window and then used the find window to search for the error string (or part of it at least) but no results were returned. I also had a poke/search around in a couple of rev stacks with Android in their names but I was none the wiser after that either.

At least I have one dev machine that it works on I guess. It used to work on the Macbook Air as well but something seems to have gone amiss along the way, probably when I was required to update my Android install. I thought starting from scratch installing Android Studio and making sure the correct SDKs were installed would help but the same error occurs.

Terry...

?On 23/01/2019 8:12 am, "Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    I've seen similar messages when building for mobile. I enable the IDE stacks in prefs then search for the error string and look at the result of the previous operation. Usually the reason for the fail is apparent. Not pretty but fast. (one of the advantages of having the IDE written in LCS)
    
    Ralph DiMola
    IT Director
    Evergreen Information Services
    rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
    
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Terry Judd via use-livecode
    Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:02 PM
    To: How to use LiveCode
    Cc: Terry Judd
    Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service support class' error message
    
    I?m having a problem building/testing an Android app on one of my two development laptops (Macbook Air, LC 9.0.2, OSX Yosemite) ? it comes up with the following error message...
    
    Unable to build app for testing: could not compile service support class.
    
    It seems to work fine on another laptop with a similar setup (the only difference being that it is running OSX Mojave) ? same Android Studio setup and Java version installed.
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Terry...
    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    
    
    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    


From curry at pair.com  Tue Jan 22 18:06:55 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:55 -0500
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9669cfcd-c5a2-6b1f-fd17-744ac5b8c319@pair.com>


David:

 > I'm working on a solution for this

 > collaborative with the minimal possible barrier to entry
 > integrated into developer workflow - that means the script editor

 > personal project wiki's for the software a developer is working
 > on directly from the script editor

 > Thoughts? Feedback on this?

As a "KISS man" (bet Richmond will have fun with that!) my only advice 
is: Don't make it one bit more complex than it must be.

Meaning simplicity both for maintenance/quality AND for performance 
speed/memory. The Script Editor is already a bit chubby, huffing and 
puffing on many machines during a modest jog, and the Dictionary is 
waddling around even slower and shakier on my budget hardware than I 
move around myself as a handicap person. :D

What people need most in the Script Editor is to view and edit the code 
itself smoothly, without jitters or delays; the primary function of SE. 
After that, debugging and variables and search are very helpful. 
Something like a project wiki would come below all those in priority, 
and better not slow things down any further. A wiki could just as well 
be external to the SE or to LC - but if it plays nice, doesn't use 
cycles or memory or real estate unless it's turned on, sounds cool.

Supporting a list of standards and whizbang features is nice, but user 
comments for keywords are the essence. I would just as soon have user 
comments for the Dictionary kept fairly simple and kept in the 
Dictionary, rather than in the SE. But it sounds like you have a dream 
for this, and I'm glad to see the passion. This will be interesting!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Jan 22 18:13:13 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 23:13:13 +0000
Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service support
	class' error message
In-Reply-To: <7BA8321E-ED74-4ACA-AB68-D7E971C57CED@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <1CACDCF8-12E9-4436-867C-9016EAD48A04@unimelb.edu.au>
	<006c01d4b297$a52a36c0$ef7ea440$@net>
	<7BA8321E-ED74-4ACA-AB68-D7E971C57CED@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <16638808-0C9A-4322-842E-1E52C3BF5EF0@unimelb.edu.au>

Seems like I didn't look hard enough - I found it in revsavesasandroidstandalone.livecodescript in the revSaveAsMobileStandaloneMain command script. The relevant bit is...


executeShellCommand pathToJavaC(), "-target 1.5 -source 1.5 -Xlint:none -d", tClassesBuildFolder, "-cp", tClassPath, tClassFile
if the result is not empty then
   throw "could not compile service support class"
end if

...which doesn't really mean a lot to me. I tried adding a breakpoint so I could see what was in those various parameters but that didn't fire when I tried to build the app.

Terry...

?On 23/01/2019 9:59 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    Thanks Ralph - so, I enabled the Livecode UI stacks in the pref window and then used the find window to search for the error string (or part of it at least) but no results were returned. I also had a poke/search around in a couple of rev stacks with Android in their names but I was none the wiser after that either.
    
    At least I have one dev machine that it works on I guess. It used to work on the Macbook Air as well but something seems to have gone amiss along the way, probably when I was required to update my Android install. I thought starting from scratch installing Android Studio and making sure the correct SDKs were installed would help but the same error occurs.
    
    Terry...
    
    On 23/01/2019 8:12 am, "Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
    
        I've seen similar messages when building for mobile. I enable the IDE stacks in prefs then search for the error string and look at the result of the previous operation. Usually the reason for the fail is apparent. Not pretty but fast. (one of the advantages of having the IDE written in LCS)
        
        Ralph DiMola
        IT Director
        Evergreen Information Services
        rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
        
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Terry Judd via use-livecode
        Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:02 PM
        To: How to use LiveCode
        Cc: Terry Judd
        Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service support class' error message
        
        I?m having a problem building/testing an Android app on one of my two development laptops (Macbook Air, LC 9.0.2, OSX Yosemite) ? it comes up with the following error message...
        
        Unable to build app for testing: could not compile service support class.
        
        It seems to work fine on another laptop with a similar setup (the only difference being that it is running OSX Mojave) ? same Android Studio setup and Java version installed.
        
        Any ideas?
        
        Terry...
        _______________________________________________
        use-livecode mailing list
        use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
        Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
        http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
        
        
        _______________________________________________
        use-livecode mailing list
        use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
        Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
        http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
        
    
    _______________________________________________
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    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Jan 22 18:25:59 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:25:59 -0500
Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service
	support	class' error message
In-Reply-To: <16638808-0C9A-4322-842E-1E52C3BF5EF0@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <1CACDCF8-12E9-4436-867C-9016EAD48A04@unimelb.edu.au>	<006c01d4b297$a52a36c0$ef7ea440$@net>	<7BA8321E-ED74-4ACA-AB68-D7E971C57CED@unimelb.edu.au>
	<16638808-0C9A-4322-842E-1E52C3BF5EF0@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <007601d4b2a9$d7d86fd0$87894f70$@net>

Your just about there. Look at "the result" from the executeShellCommand. That where more detailed error info will be.
Just put a "Put the result" after the executeShellCommand

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Terry Judd via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 6:13 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Terry Judd
Subject: Re: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service support class' error message

Seems like I didn't look hard enough - I found it in revsavesasandroidstandalone.livecodescript in the revSaveAsMobileStandaloneMain command script. The relevant bit is...


executeShellCommand pathToJavaC(), "-target 1.5 -source 1.5 -Xlint:none -d", tClassesBuildFolder, "-cp", tClassPath, tClassFile if the result is not empty then
   throw "could not compile service support class"
end if

...which doesn't really mean a lot to me. I tried adding a breakpoint so I could see what was in those various parameters but that didn't fire when I tried to build the app.

Terry...

?On 23/01/2019 9:59 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    Thanks Ralph - so, I enabled the Livecode UI stacks in the pref window and then used the find window to search for the error string (or part of it at least) but no results were returned. I also had a poke/search around in a couple of rev stacks with Android in their names but I was none the wiser after that either.
    
    At least I have one dev machine that it works on I guess. It used to work on the Macbook Air as well but something seems to have gone amiss along the way, probably when I was required to update my Android install. I thought starting from scratch installing Android Studio and making sure the correct SDKs were installed would help but the same error occurs.
    
    Terry...
    
    On 23/01/2019 8:12 am, "Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
    
        I've seen similar messages when building for mobile. I enable the IDE stacks in prefs then search for the error string and look at the result of the previous operation. Usually the reason for the fail is apparent. Not pretty but fast. (one of the advantages of having the IDE written in LCS)
        
        Ralph DiMola
        IT Director
        Evergreen Information Services
        rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
        
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Terry Judd via use-livecode
        Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:02 PM
        To: How to use LiveCode
        Cc: Terry Judd
        Subject: Problem building Android app - 'could not compile service support class' error message
        
        I?m having a problem building/testing an Android app on one of my two development laptops (Macbook Air, LC 9.0.2, OSX Yosemite) ? it comes up with the following error message...
        
        Unable to build app for testing: could not compile service support class.
        
        It seems to work fine on another laptop with a similar setup (the only difference being that it is running OSX Mojave) ? same Android Studio setup and Java version installed.
        
        Any ideas?
        
        Terry...
        _______________________________________________
        use-livecode mailing list
        use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
        Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
        http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
        
        
        _______________________________________________
        use-livecode mailing list
        use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
        Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
        http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
        
    
    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    

_______________________________________________
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From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue Jan 22 22:51:54 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:51:54 -0500
Subject: global is empty
In-Reply-To: <877c6e1b-29b8-a79e-bab6-20957c77e37a@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
	<9c58003a-8b1f-478e-b61b-3cb9c5812971@Spark>
	<d9d02c64-30a8-6996-28df-7c24082a3448@krutt.org>
	<877c6e1b-29b8-a79e-bab6-20957c77e37a@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKa5aaeGWa-nzOmFTeSnprCzgAOQH-QPrSfZ2OWjbs0DA@mail.gmail.com>

has this been resolved?

when you moved the global declaration to the top it worked?

I keep an eye on reports like this because they are the most
worrisome kinds of things.

But I always trust that the programmer will find the error in their ways.



On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 5:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 1/21/19 12:06 PM, JJS via use-livecode wrote:
> > Foolishly i putted this global behind the locals on the top line. And
> > blindly trusting myself that it was correct i did not notice it.
>
> I didn't realize the order mattered. Seems like it shouldn't.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jan 23 00:02:10 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 21:02:10 -0800
Subject: HTML entity escaping?
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioNUL3xuvcLbs3Mmm0c1tj+O00OOt_NOz-Fz+gc_iYMv9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioNUL3xuvcLbs3Mmm0c1tj+O00OOt_NOz-Fz+gc_iYMv9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9198c3b-fa04-52b7-3fb5-f3c3f21b00a7@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > Richard - thanks for the tip regarding using the template field - I
 > was wondering if that would work on the server (see my latest post)

Oh yes.  You made that requirement clear.

You can read and write to LC object properties in a faceless 
command-line environment like CGI just as you can in a GUI.  The only 
difference of course is that you won't be able to see anything. :)


If you missed it, you may enjoy this tip: many versions ago (<7?) the 
team added graphics export support.  That's right: it will render a card 
into an internal buffer, and you can then export the card, or any object 
on the card, to any of the export formats LC supports (PNG, JPEG, GIF, 
etc.).

The simplest application for this might be a custom postcard generator, 
but I've used it for medical procedure diagrams.

The ability to generate custom graphics on the fly based on input coming 
from the user's browser is super-cool, and AFAIK has not been widely 
used in our community.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan 22 23:56:11 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:56:11 -0800
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPsdhdABj+kiHiCjoXvcKPA24tA+jhmFvLKZP09PF+c6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioPsdhdABj+kiHiCjoXvcKPA24tA+jhmFvLKZP09PF+c6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8cf6ff01-392e-d878-f521-776023c9178b@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > My guess on this is that it is a basic field issue.

Easily testable:

1. Make a field
2. Type in it
3. Open the Script Editor
4. Type in it

If you see a significant difference, we'll know it lies in the SE 
scripts and not the engine.


 > One of the most frequent crashes I get is if in testing I put some
 > data in the msg box. If the data is unusually large, everything jams.

Does it crash or hang?

LC's Message Box is very complex, so we can't guarantee that things 
affecting it will affect other layouts with heavy field use.

This can be tested similar to above:

1. Make a field.
2. Put whatever text into it that causes the Message Box to hang.

If it does hang it would be interested to see the text.  If it has 
unusually long runs without linebreaks it may be the soft-wrap 
calculations eating up time.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jan 23 00:13:42 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 21:13:42 -0800
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>

Graham Samuel wrote:

 > It?s OK, I think, to provide more facilities for the ?big picture?
 > professionals, such as making it easier to use version control and
 > to work in teams, and to have an ever-expanding set of functions
 > and even platforms; but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of
 > the kind of user who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works,
 > for example by deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and
 > UI elements...

Stack files have not been in any way deprecated.  Nothing has change in 
that regard.

What has happened is exactly what you describe as ideal above: new 
capabilities have been added that support a much wider range of uses for 
LC, while preserving the methods in place for decades.  Definite win-win.

I think some of this (a lot of this?) sort of discussion comes down to 
deciding who is "us" and who is "them"?

I used to be squarely in what I presume is the "us" camp, and in many 
ways I still prefer the simplicity of with-the-grain xTalk workflows.

But I also work in other languages on things outside of LC, and the 
tools and habits acquired there are also valuable.

Being able to adapt old habits, and enhance the learning of new ones, by 
mixing the best of what I learn from each has become a rewarding adventure.

In fact, I'm no longer sure which camp I'm in, since I'm not fully "us" 
and not full "them", but a mish-mash of both and a lot of moving around 
in between those polarities.

As long as each of us can use the workflows we prefer, does the 
distinction matter?



 > A typical casualty of this conflict is the cancelling of the ability
 > of these ordinary users to add notes to the dictionary, without
 > apparent thought for the negative consequences.

I'm surprised no one in the community has made a LC Plugin that acts as 
a custom GitHub client for LC docs.

That would seem the best of both worlds: a pleasant UI that's as easy to 
use as it is to build, and those who prefer working directly on the docs 
in Markdown can continue to do so.

A custom GitHub client for the main repository solves many problems, 
chiefly (and so far uniquely) the issue of having learning materials 
spread out across an ever-broader range of disparate systems.  All the 
advantages of multiple intput streams, with the advantage of a single 
output stream that we all have installed and available with LC.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From brian at milby7.com  Wed Jan 23 01:14:42 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 00:14:42 -0600
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioO3RK+fbyKPsntrVuhUNC_8PHFpjGbHyB-3y-XS3YzKRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<c9e99b9d-9656-e080-3d2a-e40ced58ca72@pair.com>
	<CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<53664eb0-3e6a-4f31-b54d-70e83026b2fe@Spark>
	<CAGASioNWXVyAXTJiLFzp=ZFr-obkVQekgETb+0NqaBbUELaYMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<783bc36d-d667-4d53-a3bd-b9d64182dab5@Spark>
	<CAGASioO3RK+fbyKPsntrVuhUNC_8PHFpjGbHyB-3y-XS3YzKRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+yhkRbns-ZXgb65b_iX=01oeRDkr6xVb31Xs_REjP8Y8pX=Zg@mail.gmail.com>

I've posted the Documentation Editor code to GitHub.  I'll try to add some
screen shots eventually.

https://github.com/bwmilby/DocEditorPlus
https://github.com/bwmilby/DocEditorPlus/raw/master/DocEditorPlus.livecode

Script index:
https://github.com/bwmilby/DocEditorPlus/blob/master/DocEditorPlus.md

(field "DocText" of card "DocEditor" is where most of the code from the
LiveCode Doc Helper stack landed).

I last worked on this in December 2017 and have not done extensive testing
on it with the latest LC9 release.  I did verify that it did still parse a
LCDOC file and was able to present it in the system browser on my Mac.  The
intended use is for a forked LiveCode repo which includes the dictionary.
There you can use git to create a branch off of develop-9.0 and update
dictionary entries.  Once the edits are done, commit to your new branch and
then on the GitHub site you can create the PR for inclusion into the
dictionary.  However, there is no requirement to have the full repo on your
system, you can just as easily obtain a single LCDOC file and work with it.

Thanks,
Brian

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 12:07 PM David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Brian - if you have the tie to dig out that stack it would be great.
> I have come across the handlers / libs a few times - but as its not
> documented it takes a while to track down :)
>
> It would be great to figure out how to get proper flow back to the main
> project - so any thoughts on that would be great.
>
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 17:03, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > GFM syntax is used, but it does go through additional processing before
> > being turned into what we see in the IDE.  All of that code resides in
> the
> > IDE so it can be leveraged to process the updates.  I actually modified a
> > stack that can allow the editing of a doc and then preview it in a
> > browser.  I?ll need to find where that is posted and link here for
> > reference this evening.
> >
> > For license, I was only referring to the flow back into the main project
> > which has the dual commercial/GPL license.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
> > On Jan 22, 2019, 10:52 AM -0600, David Bovill via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 14:40, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > That license will not allow inclusion into the LiceCode dictionary as
> > it
> > > > requires any derivative works to carry the same license. For
> > integration
> > > > into the LiveCode project a CLA will need to be signed by each author
> > and
> > > > their contributions also submitted with copyright assigned to the
> > company.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The documentation license is GPLv3 (with a modification for ATL and
> > > OpenSSL). It's not an ideal license for documentation - should probably
> > > changed to make things clearer but "on October 8, 2015, Creative
> Commons
> > > concluded
> > > <
> >
> https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/licensing-considerations/compatible-licenses/
> > >
> > > that the CC BY-SA <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC_BY-SA> 4.0 is
> > inbound
> > > compatible with the GPLv3". I also spoke with Kevin from the
> Mothership a
> > > couple of times about this issue, and AFAIK there is not intention to
> > > restrict the use / remix of the documentation in this way - ie using
> with
> > > other so called free culture content such as Wikipedia. Here are a few
> > > links:
> > >
> > > - https://bit.ly/2FQfkvH
> > >
> > > Certainly more complicated is the flow back to the mothership for
> > including
> > > the content in the closed source (commercial) distributions - for that
> > we'd
> > > need the CLA, and some sort of care taken to NOT include Wikipedia
> > content
> > > but only completely rewritten content. I'd certainly like to do that -
> so
> > > getting authors to sign the CLA would be useful to figure out for the
> > > community side of things.
> > >
> > > The dictionary uses markdown as the source format. To be easy to
> > > > integrate, it would be a good idea to use that as the storage/native
> > format
> > > > of contributions.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes - within the json we store Github flavoured markdown. It seems to
> me
> > > that the documentation is not in markdown though?
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> >
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/function/URLEncode.lcdoc
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 03:42:20 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 08:42:20 +0000
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioNPhU6khjR+++LL1J7Q1Y54efGw1H+PCXNwxMzjrt=Neg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard - yes indeed Github and GIST integration is part of the mix. I
have libraries for those and have been publishing directly from Livecode
for a few years now so it works well. My thinking on it is to use Github as
an option for offloading (large) data, and keeping the json as metadata -
light and fast to load.

So at the moment the documentation exports small wiki pages (in json) that
link direclty to Github or GIST repositories. Livecode can then use the
json for fast local / native rendering of text - as Curry Kenworthy
comments. Minimal light weight structured json. The json is basically a
serialised array store and can be converted to markdown of HTML in
Javascript, Livecode or pandoc. So it is easy for a developer to do what
they want with it, and there are libraries to make manipulation easy.

What I'm personally finding useful is the ability to write freely while
coding. I've adopted a process of writing code in which I specify it
first + a little quick software sketch. Having a wiki page for every script
gives me the space to do that - then when you publish you have the
documentation and the code in Github or your own web site. This is a
different architecture from notes + comments - it's a wiki page you can
fork and write on.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 05:13, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Graham Samuel wrote:
>
>  > It?s OK, I think, to provide more facilities for the ?big picture?
>  > professionals, such as making it easier to use version control and
>  > to work in teams, and to have an ever-expanding set of functions
>  > and even platforms; but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of
>  > the kind of user who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works,
>  > for example by deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and
>  > UI elements...
>
> Stack files have not been in any way deprecated.  Nothing has change in
> that regard.
>
> What has happened is exactly what you describe as ideal above: new
> capabilities have been added that support a much wider range of uses for
> LC, while preserving the methods in place for decades.  Definite win-win.
>
> I think some of this (a lot of this?) sort of discussion comes down to
> deciding who is "us" and who is "them"?
>
> I used to be squarely in what I presume is the "us" camp, and in many
> ways I still prefer the simplicity of with-the-grain xTalk workflows.
>
> But I also work in other languages on things outside of LC, and the
> tools and habits acquired there are also valuable.
>
> Being able to adapt old habits, and enhance the learning of new ones, by
> mixing the best of what I learn from each has become a rewarding adventure.
>
> In fact, I'm no longer sure which camp I'm in, since I'm not fully "us"
> and not full "them", but a mish-mash of both and a lot of moving around
> in between those polarities.
>
> As long as each of us can use the workflows we prefer, does the
> distinction matter?
>
>
>
>  > A typical casualty of this conflict is the cancelling of the ability
>  > of these ordinary users to add notes to the dictionary, without
>  > apparent thought for the negative consequences.
>
> I'm surprised no one in the community has made a LC Plugin that acts as
> a custom GitHub client for LC docs.
>
> That would seem the best of both worlds: a pleasant UI that's as easy to
> use as it is to build, and those who prefer working directly on the docs
> in Markdown can continue to do so.
>
> A custom GitHub client for the main repository solves many problems,
> chiefly (and so far uniquely) the issue of having learning materials
> spread out across an ever-broader range of disparate systems.  All the
> advantages of multiple intput streams, with the advantage of a single
> output stream that we all have installed and available with LC.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 05:26:00 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 12:26:00 +0200
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <9669cfcd-c5a2-6b1f-fd17-744ac5b8c319@pair.com>
References: <CAGASioNmWc=zkNiUSJyCh+qauQsukUbQO1X1YRt_au5GxOFkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9669cfcd-c5a2-6b1f-fd17-744ac5b8c319@pair.com>
Message-ID: <60c106fb-2a9e-e08b-f654-6b3dad3e61f1@gmail.com>

Well, Curry, at the risk of causing you terminal disappointment, I can 
do nothing but support
your request for the thing to be a simple as possible.

"my budget hardware"

my "budgetist" hard ware is a Pentium 4 I picked up 12 years ago, second 
had, for $12 . . .

It has "2000" written on the back of it!

Oddly enough it runs LC 9.0 under Xubuntu 18.04 without a backward glance.

Richmond.

However, having played around with it when I bought it, 12 years ago, 
with Windows XP,
that was glacially slow back then

On 23.01.19 ?. 1:06 ?., Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:
>
> David:
>
> > I'm working on a solution for this
>
> > collaborative with the minimal possible barrier to entry
> > integrated into developer workflow - that means the script editor
>
> > personal project wiki's for the software a developer is working
> > on directly from the script editor
>
> > Thoughts? Feedback on this?
>
> As a "KISS man" (bet Richmond will have fun with that!) my only advice 
> is: Don't make it one bit more complex than it must be.
>
> Meaning simplicity both for maintenance/quality AND for performance 
> speed/memory. The Script Editor is already a bit chubby, huffing and 
> puffing on many machines during a modest jog, and the Dictionary is 
> waddling around even slower and shakier on my budget hardware than I 
> move around myself as a handicap person. :D
>
> What people need most in the Script Editor is to view and edit the 
> code itself smoothly, without jitters or delays; the primary function 
> of SE. After that, debugging and variables and search are very 
> helpful. Something like a project wiki would come below all those in 
> priority, and better not slow things down any further. A wiki could 
> just as well be external to the SE or to LC - but if it plays nice, 
> doesn't use cycles or memory or real estate unless it's turned on, 
> sounds cool.
>
> Supporting a list of standards and whizbang features is nice, but user 
> comments for keywords are the essence. I would just as soon have user 
> comments for the Dictionary kept fairly simple and kept in the 
> Dictionary, rather than in the SE. But it sounds like you have a dream 
> for this, and I'm glad to see the passion. This will be interesting!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 05:32:25 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 12:32:25 +0200
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>

Oh, let's get campy.

In a perfect world there should not really be a need for "us" and "them" 
camps with LiveCode,
it should cater to all people along a continuum stretching from "us" to 
"them".

While LiveCode may be tending to introduce more "them" features 
(arguably because all
"us" features are already in place), as long as that does not detract or 
break any of the
"us" features there should be nothing to argue about.

When I teach programming with LiveCode I stick to the "us" features 
because I believe skills
learnt there are more basic and portable to other languages; but I am 
not so narrow minded to see
that many of the "them" features have their place and use in the great 
scheme of things.

This is why my "prayer" is that the good folks at LiveCode central only 
deprecate features
when that is absolutely unavoidable.

Richmond.

On 23.01.19 ?. 7:13 ?., Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> Graham Samuel wrote:
>
> > It?s OK, I think, to provide more facilities for the ?big picture?
> > professionals, such as making it easier to use version control and
> > to work in teams, and to have an ever-expanding set of functions
> > and even platforms; but it?s not OK if this is at the expense of
> > the kind of user who doesn?t want to distort the way LC works,
> > for example by deprecating stacks that contain both scripts and
> > UI elements...
>
> Stack files have not been in any way deprecated.? Nothing has change 
> in that regard.
>
> What has happened is exactly what you describe as ideal above: new 
> capabilities have been added that support a much wider range of uses 
> for LC, while preserving the methods in place for decades. Definite 
> win-win.
>
> I think some of this (a lot of this?) sort of discussion comes down to 
> deciding who is "us" and who is "them"?
>
> I used to be squarely in what I presume is the "us" camp, and in many 
> ways I still prefer the simplicity of with-the-grain xTalk workflows.
>
> But I also work in other languages on things outside of LC, and the 
> tools and habits acquired there are also valuable.
>
> Being able to adapt old habits, and enhance the learning of new ones, 
> by mixing the best of what I learn from each has become a rewarding 
> adventure.
>
> In fact, I'm no longer sure which camp I'm in, since I'm not fully 
> "us" and not full "them", but a mish-mash of both and a lot of moving 
> around in between those polarities.
>
> As long as each of us can use the workflows we prefer, does the 
> distinction matter?
>
>
>
> > A typical casualty of this conflict is the cancelling of the ability
> > of these ordinary users to add notes to the dictionary, without
> > apparent thought for the negative consequences.
>
> I'm surprised no one in the community has made a LC Plugin that acts 
> as a custom GitHub client for LC docs.
>
> That would seem the best of both worlds: a pleasant UI that's as easy 
> to use as it is to build, and those who prefer working directly on the 
> docs in Markdown can continue to do so.
>
> A custom GitHub client for the main repository solves many problems, 
> chiefly (and so far uniquely) the issue of having learning materials 
> spread out across an ever-broader range of disparate systems.? All the 
> advantages of multiple intput streams, with the advantage of a single 
> output stream that we all have installed and available with LC.
>




From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 07:34:08 2019
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 12:34:08 +0000
Subject: Displaying or identifying emoji
In-Reply-To: <c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
	<c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>

Hello folks,

I am working on imported text messages from various sources, and which have been through various (unknown) processes/displays before I get them.  Some retain emoji intact, but others render them as an odd series of characters (presumably having been substituted when stored in a non-unicode environment):

	582	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:13:54 PM): I'll be here ??????????
	600	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:32:15 PM): Me too ??????
	615	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:49:18 PM): Thank you ??????????
	625	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:52:29 PM): ??????????????????

 I would like to know which emoji were being used, either by displaying them in the field or substituting "??????? etc with parenthetic text describing the emoji.  I have tried to break emojis down, but can?t find an app that doesn?t display them - or rather mangles them in this way.  Similarly, I have looked at the ascii and hex of the component characters of the gobbledegook, but can?t see a pattern.

Any suggestions?


Best Wishes,
David Glasgow


 <http://www.i-psych.co.uk/> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps>

 <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
 <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>


From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Wed Jan 23 09:15:13 2019
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:15:13 -0500
Subject: Displaying or identifying emoji
In-Reply-To: <2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
	<c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>
	<2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>

Hi David,

Looks like you are running into some of the same issues I had when learning to work with them?

You say you are importing them? From where? A text file or DB?

Make sure that the encoding is set to UTF-8 or higher when you import. Next, you need to textDecode() them, again making sure that encoding matches.

One MAJOR caveat that I ran into with using mySQL. After opening the connection, you need to add the following code to fore the connection to unicode:

## Set utf8mb4

revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID, "SET NAMES 'utf8mb4'"


Or whatever your encoding is on that table. Otherwise it will default to ascii and you will get those characters.

Also, depending on the emoji, it may be 1 codepoint or many. Use the keyword ?word? when finding, etc.

Hope this helps!

Best,

Steve MacLean

> On Jan 23, 2019, at 7:34 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello folks,
> 
> I am working on imported text messages from various sources, and which have been through various (unknown) processes/displays before I get them.  Some retain emoji intact, but others render them as an odd series of characters (presumably having been substituted when stored in a non-unicode environment):
> 
> 	582	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:13:54 PM): I'll be here ??????????
> 	600	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:32:15 PM): Me too ??????
> 	615	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:49:18 PM): Thank you ??????????
> 	625	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:52:29 PM): ??????????????????
> 
> I would like to know which emoji were being used, either by displaying them in the field or substituting "??????? etc with parenthetic text describing the emoji.  I have tried to break emojis down, but can?t find an app that doesn?t display them - or rather mangles them in this way.  Similarly, I have looked at the ascii and hex of the component characters of the gobbledegook, but can?t see a pattern.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Best Wishes,
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> <http://www.i-psych.co.uk/> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps>
> 
> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed Jan 23 09:59:53 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:59:53 -0500
Subject: Displaying or identifying emoji
In-Reply-To: <2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>	<c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>	<2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>
	<2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>
Message-ID: <001201d4b32c$4f002710$ed007530$@net>

"Also, depending on the emoji, it may be 1 codepoint or many. Use the keyword ?word? when finding, etc."

Word or "true word"? Does it matter?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Stephen MacLean via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 9:15 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Stephen MacLean
Subject: Re: Displaying or identifying emoji

Hi David,

Looks like you are running into some of the same issues I had when learning to work with them?

You say you are importing them? From where? A text file or DB?

Make sure that the encoding is set to UTF-8 or higher when you import. Next, you need to textDecode() them, again making sure that encoding matches.

One MAJOR caveat that I ran into with using mySQL. After opening the connection, you need to add the following code to fore the connection to unicode:

## Set utf8mb4

revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID, "SET NAMES 'utf8mb4'"


Or whatever your encoding is on that table. Otherwise it will default to ascii and you will get those characters.

Also, depending on the emoji, it may be 1 codepoint or many. Use the keyword ?word? when finding, etc.

Hope this helps!

Best,

Steve MacLean

> On Jan 23, 2019, at 7:34 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello folks,
> 
> I am working on imported text messages from various sources, and which have been through various (unknown) processes/displays before I get them.  Some retain emoji intact, but others render them as an odd series of characters (presumably having been substituted when stored in a non-unicode environment):
> 
> 	582	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:13:54 PM): I'll be here ??????????
> 	600	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:32:15 PM): Me too ??????
> 	615	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:49:18 PM): Thank you ??????????
> 	625	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:52:29 PM): ??????????????????
> 
> I would like to know which emoji were being used, either by displaying them in the field or substituting "??????? etc with parenthetic text describing the emoji.  I have tried to break emojis down, but can?t find an app that doesn?t display them - or rather mangles them in this way.  Similarly, I have looked at the ascii and hex of the component characters of the gobbledegook, but can?t see a pattern.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Best Wishes,
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> <http://www.i-psych.co.uk/> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps>
> 
> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Wed Jan 23 10:13:07 2019
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 10:13:07 -0500
Subject: Displaying or identifying emoji
In-Reply-To: <001201d4b32c$4f002710$ed007530$@net>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
	<c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>
	<2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>
	<2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>
	<001201d4b32c$4f002710$ed007530$@net>
Message-ID: <DB5F8F34-5773-4652-98A2-B1632D90C0E4@madmansoft.com>

In my testing so far, word works while trueWord doesn?t, although that testing is still preliminary...

In my case, I need to strip them out. Single codepoint ones like the smiley are easy, they are one codepoint and 1 word. The ones, like red haired man, are tougher because they are multple codeponts. However, they are still 1 word.

I?ve built a sample library stack that contains all the emoji?s, their codepoints and some routines that I?m using to work through this all. I hope to have my testing done in the next day or two and will post for anyone who wants to play with it.

Best,

Steve MacLean

> On Jan 23, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> "Also, depending on the emoji, it may be 1 codepoint or many. Use the keyword ?word? when finding, etc."
> 
> Word or "true word"? Does it matter?
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Stephen MacLean via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 9:15 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Stephen MacLean
> Subject: Re: Displaying or identifying emoji
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> Looks like you are running into some of the same issues I had when learning to work with them?
> 
> You say you are importing them? From where? A text file or DB?
> 
> Make sure that the encoding is set to UTF-8 or higher when you import. Next, you need to textDecode() them, again making sure that encoding matches.
> 
> One MAJOR caveat that I ran into with using mySQL. After opening the connection, you need to add the following code to fore the connection to unicode:
> 
> ## Set utf8mb4
> 
> revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID, "SET NAMES 'utf8mb4'"
> 
> 
> Or whatever your encoding is on that table. Otherwise it will default to ascii and you will get those characters.
> 
> Also, depending on the emoji, it may be 1 codepoint or many. Use the keyword ?word? when finding, etc.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Steve MacLean
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2019, at 7:34 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello folks,
>> 
>> I am working on imported text messages from various sources, and which have been through various (unknown) processes/displays before I get them.  Some retain emoji intact, but others render them as an odd series of characters (presumably having been substituted when stored in a non-unicode environment):
>> 
>> 	582	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:13:54 PM): I'll be here ??????????
>> 	600	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:32:15 PM): Me too ??????
>> 	615	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:49:18 PM): Thank you ??????????
>> 	625	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:52:29 PM): ??????????????????
>> 
>> I would like to know which emoji were being used, either by displaying them in the field or substituting "??????? etc with parenthetic text describing the emoji.  I have tried to break emojis down, but can?t find an app that doesn?t display them - or rather mangles them in this way.  Similarly, I have looked at the ascii and hex of the component characters of the gobbledegook, but can?t see a pattern.
>> 
>> Any suggestions?
>> 
>> 
>> Best Wishes,
>> David Glasgow
>> 
>> 
>> <http://www.i-psych.co.uk/> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps>
>> 
>> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
>> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Wed Jan 23 10:49:24 2019
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 07:49:24 -0800
Subject: Displaying or identifying emoji
In-Reply-To: <DB5F8F34-5773-4652-98A2-B1632D90C0E4@madmansoft.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
	<c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>
	<2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>
	<2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>
	<001201d4b32c$4f002710$ed007530$@net>
	<DB5F8F34-5773-4652-98A2-B1632D90C0E4@madmansoft.com>
Message-ID: <0E1D7A79-AC84-4963-9E39-46227AE364C9@elementarysoftware.com>

Please post. I would find this very useful.

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth     1-800-615-0867
------------------------------------------------------

> On Jan 23, 2019, at 7:13 AM, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> In my testing so far, word works while trueWord doesn?t, although that testing is still preliminary...
> 
> In my case, I need to strip them out. Single codepoint ones like the smiley are easy, they are one codepoint and 1 word. The ones, like red haired man, are tougher because they are multple codeponts. However, they are still 1 word.
> 
> I?ve built a sample library stack that contains all the emoji?s, their codepoints and some routines that I?m using to work through this all. I hope to have my testing done in the next day or two and will post for anyone who wants to play with it.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Steve MacLean
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> "Also, depending on the emoji, it may be 1 codepoint or many. Use the keyword ?word? when finding, etc."
>> 
>> Word or "true word"? Does it matter?
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Stephen MacLean via use-livecode
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 9:15 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode
>> Cc: Stephen MacLean
>> Subject: Re: Displaying or identifying emoji
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> Looks like you are running into some of the same issues I had when learning to work with them?
>> 
>> You say you are importing them? From where? A text file or DB?
>> 
>> Make sure that the encoding is set to UTF-8 or higher when you import. Next, you need to textDecode() them, again making sure that encoding matches.
>> 
>> One MAJOR caveat that I ran into with using mySQL. After opening the connection, you need to add the following code to fore the connection to unicode:
>> 
>> ## Set utf8mb4
>> 
>> revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID, "SET NAMES 'utf8mb4'"
>> 
>> 
>> Or whatever your encoding is on that table. Otherwise it will default to ascii and you will get those characters.
>> 
>> Also, depending on the emoji, it may be 1 codepoint or many. Use the keyword ?word? when finding, etc.
>> 
>> Hope this helps!
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Steve MacLean
>> 
>>> On Jan 23, 2019, at 7:34 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello folks,
>>> 
>>> I am working on imported text messages from various sources, and which have been through various (unknown) processes/displays before I get them.  Some retain emoji intact, but others render them as an odd series of characters (presumably having been substituted when stored in a non-unicode environment):
>>> 
>>> 	582	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:13:54 PM): I'll be here ??????????
>>> 	600	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:32:15 PM): Me too ??????
>>> 	615	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:49:18 PM): Thank you ??????????
>>> 	625	hexman555 (04/17/15 11:52:29 PM): ??????????????????
>>> 
>>> I would like to know which emoji were being used, either by displaying them in the field or substituting "??????? etc with parenthetic text describing the emoji.  I have tried to break emojis down, but can?t find an app that doesn?t display them - or rather mangles them in this way.  Similarly, I have looked at the ascii and hex of the component characters of the gobbledegook, but can?t see a pattern.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Wishes,
>>> David Glasgow
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <http://www.i-psych.co.uk/> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps>
>>> 
>>> <https://twitter.com/iPsychApps> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
>>> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/davidvglasgow>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jjs at krutt.org  Wed Jan 23 09:50:34 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 15:50:34 +0100
Subject: global is empty
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKa5aaeGWa-nzOmFTeSnprCzgAOQH-QPrSfZ2OWjbs0DA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
	<9c58003a-8b1f-478e-b61b-3cb9c5812971@Spark>
	<d9d02c64-30a8-6996-28df-7c24082a3448@krutt.org>
	<877c6e1b-29b8-a79e-bab6-20957c77e37a@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CAPzQJLKa5aaeGWa-nzOmFTeSnprCzgAOQH-QPrSfZ2OWjbs0DA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39c928ec-6319-ede7-812f-7c342ad2c7a4@krutt.org>

i had to put the global behind global. i was a mistake i looked over. so 
no bug.

Op 23-1-2019 om 04:51 schreef Tom Glod via use-livecode:
> has this been resolved?
>
> when you moved the global declaration to the top it worked?
>
> I keep an eye on reports like this because they are the most
> worrisome kinds of things.
>
> But I always trust that the programmer will find the error in their ways.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 5:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/19 12:06 PM, JJS via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Foolishly i putted this global behind the locals on the top line. And
>>> blindly trusting myself that it was correct i did not notice it.
>> I didn't realize the order mattered. Seems like it shouldn't.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jjs at krutt.org  Wed Jan 23 09:51:01 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 15:51:01 +0100
Subject: global is empty
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKa5aaeGWa-nzOmFTeSnprCzgAOQH-QPrSfZ2OWjbs0DA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fb633959-4783-4432-aba8-887508a0e9eb@krutt.org>
	<9c58003a-8b1f-478e-b61b-3cb9c5812971@Spark>
	<d9d02c64-30a8-6996-28df-7c24082a3448@krutt.org>
	<877c6e1b-29b8-a79e-bab6-20957c77e37a@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CAPzQJLKa5aaeGWa-nzOmFTeSnprCzgAOQH-QPrSfZ2OWjbs0DA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1164aa00-4843-a957-b5e4-9f4274933919@krutt.org>

i had to put the global behind global, not behind local. it was a 
mistake i looked over. so no bug.

Op 23-1-2019 om 04:51 schreef Tom Glod via use-livecode:
> has this been resolved?
>
> when you moved the global declaration to the top it worked?
>
> I keep an eye on reports like this because they are the most
> worrisome kinds of things.
>
> But I always trust that the programmer will find the error in their ways.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 5:44 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/19 12:06 PM, JJS via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Foolishly i putted this global behind the locals on the top line. And
>>> blindly trusting myself that it was correct i did not notice it.
>> I didn't realize the order mattered. Seems like it shouldn't.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 11:34:59 2019
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:34:59 +0000
Subject: Displaying or identifying emoji
In-Reply-To: <2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
	<c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>
	<2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>
	<2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>
Message-ID: <1655347D-51DA-4E35-AA4A-1E2411471E21@gmail.com>



> On 23 Jan 2019, at 2:15 pm, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You say you are importing them? From where? A text file or DB?

Basically, Stephen, I take what I am given.  

Could be plain text, Word, HTML , even spreadsheetn- and often I don?t know any intermediate steps between the original chat record (on whatever device and in whatever software was involved), and the final format I receive.  Usually I get a digital record, but the last one I received was a scan of a fax of a Word document.

I was hoping for easy way to back translate, gobbledegook to emoji ID/code, but it looks like maybe there isn?t one.  

Thanks to all who chipped in.

Cheers,

David Glasgow





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jan 23 13:39:37 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 10:39:37 -0800
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <9669cfcd-c5a2-6b1f-fd17-744ac5b8c319@pair.com>
References: <9669cfcd-c5a2-6b1f-fd17-744ac5b8c319@pair.com>
Message-ID: <479a6952-7f43-f193-0d9f-09c7eadbd6b8@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

 > What people need most in the Script Editor is to view and edit the
 > code itself smoothly, without jitters or delays

Not hard to make one.  A frontScript trapping the editScript message 
lets you do whatever you want.

You can make a stack with a field and a Save button for the simplest 
form as a starting point.

Or clone MC IDE's SE as a starting point.

I used to maintain my own SE for many years, until the big Waddingham 
overhaul that became the foundation for what we use now.  I'm happy 
enough with the current SE that I stopped work on custom ones, but 
they're not hard to make for basic editing; the tough part is adding 
features without impairing performance, a valuable exercise.

And then there are the countless third-party text editors, some of which 
have LC-specific add-ons crafted by our community for them, like 
Trevor's plugin for Atom.  I've been using Atom enough in web 
development that I'm considering using it with LC.  It's very nice.

And of course LC's SE is fully open.  Anyone can fork it, improve it, 
share it with anyone, and even submit the improvements back to the core 
team for inclusion in the master build.

So many solutions so widely available....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Jan 23 13:52:36 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 12:52:36 -0600
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <479a6952-7f43-f193-0d9f-09c7eadbd6b8@fourthworld.com>
References: <9669cfcd-c5a2-6b1f-fd17-744ac5b8c319@pair.com>
	<479a6952-7f43-f193-0d9f-09c7eadbd6b8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG_VG-sfk0JMghy058Zep4YZax_xMUCnLRyOHxY-X+TnAA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 12:39 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> And then there are the countless third-party text editors, some of which
> have LC-specific add-ons crafted by our community for them, like
> Trevor's plugin for Atom.  I've been using Atom enough in web
> development that I'm considering using it with LC.  It's very nice.
>

The Atom plugin was written by somebody else. I think it was Peter Brett. I
maintain the plugin for Sublime Text.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
CTO - ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jan 23 14:18:34 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 11:18:34 -0800
Subject: Thoughts on Livecode Server
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioMPd0KEWRx1WoP5y1b_Bkeympd8h=Zhst0mssdC0Q1kgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioMPd0KEWRx1WoP5y1b_Bkeympd8h=Zhst0mssdC0Q1kgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f58b4dc-a7f6-6b20-9b6d-71070756eb73@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > Does anyone have any thoughts on where Livecode server should go / is
 > going?

So far it goes wherever I take it, so I haven't given much thought 
beyond one enhancement request for init optimization (useful for CGI, 
will make no difference for any use as a persistent process):
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115


 > *Full power of Livecode?*
 > My first question is what are the actual limits of what you can do on
 > the server, as compared with the desktop version? I haven't pushed
 > this to the limit so maybe yo have?

LC Server is designed to run under CGI.  As with any other CGI, anything 
you can do in launch-run-reply-quit command-line scenario will work 
whether it's local or on a server.


 > For instance if I want to integrate Javascript / node.js code into my
 > server, can I use the built in two way communication between
 > Javascript and Livecode?

I haven't used LC Server for persistent processes, only CGI. I have used 
standalones for that, however (run with the -ui flag).

Pierre Sahores has done extensive benchmarking on using LC behind a 
reverse proxy (NGineX IIRC?), and I did some tests in a related thread 
using standalones as HTTP daemons directly.

I don't have enough familiarity with Node.js configuration to have an 
opinion about integrating with that specifically, but Pierre might. 
Most folks seem content with CGI use.


 > This also leads on to the more general question about the headless
 > Livecode environment of the server - are then any limits to script
 > that does stuff like create a stack, add a browser element to the
 > stack

A browser is a GUI element.  What would its role be in the server 
environment?

If you need to make HTTP requests you can do that far more efficiently 
directly in LC, without encumbering it with an entire separate complex 
browser app embedded in a GUI widget.


 > set behaviors

Common features like frontscripts, backscripts, libraries, and behaviors 
all work whether running GUI or CLUI.


 > communicate with the newly created stack

In the same process, as easy as with GUI.  Across processes with sockets 
or pipes, or polling in /run/shm/ or other useful location.


 > (and hence Javascript

Node-specific stuff is outside my current experience, but given that LC 
supports the most commonly used forms of IPC I can't imagine it couldn't 
be integrated in one way or another.


 > destroy the stack and return a result to the browser?

As CGI no need to destroy anything, since everything in the process goes 
away after the reply is delivered to Apache or whatever else calls it.


 > I'll be testing this soon, but are there limits to this approach
 > (apart form speed)?

Speed is a concern in CGI environments, where the entire runtime life 
cycle from launch to quit happens with each request; each request spawns 
a new process, so every millisecond counts.

CGI keeps things discrete and easy to work with (which is how we got the 
"C" in "CGI" <g>), but lazy or complex programming on a sufficiently 
buzy server can create bottlenecks with CPU time and/or RAM.

But that's not an LC thang, that's just how CGI works. Comparing some 
custom scripts to popular frameworks like Drupal shows LC is quite lean 
and performant by comparison (averaging 1/3 CPU time and 1/5 RAM across 
the few scenarios I've benchmarked).

It's an unfair comparison, given the scope of what Drupal does, but was 
enough to encourage me to continue pursuing custom solutions in LC, as I 
can write things from scratch more quickly in LC than I can figure out 
how to move from Drupal 7 to Drupal 8. ;)

Many get hung up on the "But does it scale?" question, but Guy Kawasaki 
and others remind us how many startups fail because they overspent on 
scaling for a market they never grew into because they'd spent all their 
money prematurely on scaling. :)

Look at the number of even reasonably popular sites running through 
Wordpress/PHP on a shared host.  Scaling is overrated for many projects 
that don't have significant marketing budgets to warrant accommodating 
such traffic loads.


 > *Emscripten export?*
 > How about using the exported javascript in the server? Could we have a
 > node.js based server which server-side uses the big fat Livecode
 > javascript engine, and exported Livecode HTML5 exported stacks as
 > server side code?

The main benefit of the HTML export is to provide a GUI for browser 
clients.  I can't think of any advantage in using an interpreted version 
of the engine on a server when a machine-code-compiled version is available.


 > *Livecode Docker behind reverse proxy*
 > This is sort of the default I would say in moving on from Nginx or
 > Apache based hosting of Livecode server. Does anyone have any plans /
 > experience of doing this?

I don't have the URLs handy at the moment, but Pierre's benchmarks 
posted here a couple years ago were easy enough to find last time I 
searched for them.  He doesn't post here often, so anything from him is 
probably relevant to your interests.


In short:

LC is a quite capable server scripting language.  Just about anything 
you can do with Python, Perl, bash, PHP, etc. can be done in LC.  In 
some cases it may be faster, in others slower, but in most cases far 
quicker to develop with.

Given the nearly infinite range of things that can conceivably be done 
with a server scripting language, perhaps the more actionable subset is:

What do you want to build with it?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jan 23 14:20:50 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 11:20:50 -0800
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG_VG-sfk0JMghy058Zep4YZax_xMUCnLRyOHxY-X+TnAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG_VG-sfk0JMghy058Zep4YZax_xMUCnLRyOHxY-X+TnAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a054fbbb-7e30-19cf-d9d2-aa477bc81e06@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

 > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 12:39 PM Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> And then there are the countless third-party text editors, some of
 >> which have LC-specific add-ons crafted by our community for them,
 >> like Trevor's plugin for Atom.  I've been using Atom enough in web
 >> development that I'm considering using it with LC.  It's very nice.
 >
 > The Atom plugin was written by somebody else. I think it was Peter
 > Brett. I maintain the plugin for Sublime Text.

Ah, thanks Trevor.  With Sublime, one more option is available to let LC 
cater to every taste.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 23 18:59:46 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 23:59:46 +0000
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG_VG-sfk0JMghy058Zep4YZax_xMUCnLRyOHxY-X+TnAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9669cfcd-c5a2-6b1f-fd17-744ac5b8c319@pair.com>
	<479a6952-7f43-f193-0d9f-09c7eadbd6b8@fourthworld.com>
	<CAHg3tG_VG-sfk0JMghy058Zep4YZax_xMUCnLRyOHxY-X+TnAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6FE539E8-1700-417E-A011-C9E8C83BB195@iotecdigital.com>

+1 for Sublime. I do not code in it much, but there are plugins like for comparing two scripts to see differences. If I ever get around to converting my main app to Levure, I would probably use it more. 

Bob S


> On Jan 23, 2019, at 10:52 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 12:39 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> And then there are the countless third-party text editors, some of which
>> have LC-specific add-ons crafted by our community for them, like
>> Trevor's plugin for Atom.  I've been using Atom enough in web
>> development that I'm considering using it with LC.  It's very nice.
>> 
> 
> The Atom plugin was written by somebody else. I think it was Peter Brett. I
> maintain the plugin for Sublime Text.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> CTO - ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com




From curry at pair.com  Thu Jan 24 00:57:14 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 00:57:14 -0500
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <479a6952-7f43-f193-0d9f-09c7eadbd6b8@fourthworld.com>
References: <479a6952-7f43-f193-0d9f-09c7eadbd6b8@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <b8cd5d9a-4df2-e531-f727-7d39f39d2bff@pair.com>


Richard:

 > Curry Kenworthy wrote:
 >> What people need most in the Script Editor is to view and edit the
 >> code itself smoothly, without jitters or delays

 > Not hard to make one.  A frontScript trapping the editScript message
 > lets you do whatever you want.

It's interesting when we take a comment out of context and spin it in 
another direction by treating it as a different request or problem! :)

Neither this thread nor my own message was primarily about the SE. 
Feedback (including my own) was requested on a plan for a project wiki 
... located where? Yep, you guessed it - in the LiveCode Script Editor.

My feedback was to keep any addition simple and watch performance, 
because there are some issues and (as you quoted me) the primary feature 
of Script Editor is code editing; that is its priority.

The wiki sounds like a neat project. Simplicity helps, and whether to 
locate it in the SE is a consideration. Besides performance, another 
issue is that the original proposal here was adding user comments back 
to the Dictionary.

A project wiki would fit in the SE better than it would the Dictionary, 
of course, it would have more features and I could see that being a tab. 
But then again user keyword comments would fit the Dictionary very well, 
they could simply be added there. Having a separate LC window for a 
project wiki is another approach. I would say the tab would be handier 
and more integrated into workflow, but the separate window might be good 
for performance and memory.

I mentioned the SE relative to its inclusion in the wiki plan, so just 
clarifying (ahem) that SE alternatives aren't directly related to or a 
response to my own quoted comment. Ah, the wonders of context!

Nice thoughts though. Some people like to downplay IDE issues, perhaps 
in order to focus all possible resources on certain engine issues. 
That's fine, as are alternatives, but personally I like to see LC 
looking good out of the box too, so I believe both are important and I 
prefer to use and help improve the official SE. Many things I like about 
the SE. (A good, but different, topic!) Thanks Richard.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jan 24 03:36:07 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 00:36:07 -0800
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <b8cd5d9a-4df2-e531-f727-7d39f39d2bff@pair.com>
References: <b8cd5d9a-4df2-e531-f727-7d39f39d2bff@pair.com>
Message-ID: <476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

 > Richard:
 >  > Curry Kenworthy wrote:
 >  >> What people need most in the Script Editor is to view and edit the
 >  >> code itself smoothly, without jitters or delays
 >
 >  > Not hard to make one.  A frontScript trapping the editScript
 >  > message lets you do whatever you want.
 >
 > It's interesting when we take a comment out of context and spin it in
 > another direction by treating it as a different request or problem! :)

Not my intention to take it out of context, but to broaden the context. 
My suggestion of considering a custom SE isn't reductio ad absurdum. 
It's far worse:  I'm actually serious.

Here's where I'm coming from:


Maybe it's just because I was one of the last MC users, but Dr. Raney's 
DIY encouragement never left me: "Let a thousand flowers bloom" he would 
say of anyone with time and interest to fork and replace IDE components.

I kept using the MC IDE about a decade after Revolution first premiered. 
  Eventually I got tired of making my own GUIs for the new engine 
features, so I started using LC IDE - but the script editor was too slow.

So I forked MC's, added line numbers (years before the LC IDE had line 
numbers - we were all such savages back then <g>), and made it into a 
plugin.  Ken Ray also helped with some of the fork, and we used it for 
another five years or so even after we switched from MC to LC so we 
could use the other tools.

After the big Waddingham SE Overhaul things got a lot better, and the 
balance of features vs performance became more favorable for me, esp. in 
light of the work required to properly maintain a fork. So now I use 
LC's SE.

There's a couple points with this:

1. People can and do make their own script editors.

Why not?  It's text in a field.  If we can't make a good text editor in 
LC why are we even here?  But after delivering a good many custom work 
processors I came to believe -- and still do -- that LC can make an 
excellent text editor.

Basic features aren't hard.  It's modestly rewarding, and you learn a 
lot about making text editors.

What I found, though, was:


2. It ain't the field slowing us down.

As far as I can tell, the LC field object is pretty responsive to input.

And MC is faster than LC.  Given the same engine, the difference is in 
the scripts.

So the good news is that fixing serious slowdowns require the one skill 
everyone on this list has:  LiveCode scripting.

I've spent enough time going through the LC SE code to know that I don't 
enjoy it.  No offense to the team; it just has layers of legacy stuff 
and over time it's accumulated a bit of cruft, made more complex by the 
demands of the audience for new features.  I understand how it got that 
way, and I appreciate it's ambitions.  I just don't enjoy working on it; 
it's a beast.

So if anyone were relying on me to fix the SE performance issue (and 
there are many reasons we're all glad no one is relying on me for that), 
I'd be inclined to write a new one from scratch instead.

It may be possible to design and build something with all the current 
engine strengths and weaknesses in mind that could become more 
satisfying than continually patching a complex legacy stack.

However...

...there's a reason the team patches rather than replaces.  Replacing is 
expensive.  Done well would take tremendous time.  Sure, a field with a 
"Save" button takes only an hour, and a slightly more usable feature set 
takes a day; but a productive set takes weeks; greatness would take months.

And even then, ultimately we may find ourselves left with the question:

     Is it possible to deliver the feature set current SE users demand
     without adding a performance hit?


I'm one of the lucky ones, because once I turned off the SE features 
that seemed likely to slow me down, I no longer have a slow SE. 
Accordingly, I'm happily making stuff for clients, and am not very 
motivated anymore to work on a script editor.

But if this were bothering me, I'd either dive into the existing SE and 
fix it, or write my own.

Life's too short not to have what we want.



 > The wiki sounds like a neat project. Simplicity helps, and whether to
 > locate it in the SE is a consideration. Besides performance, another
 > issue is that the original proposal here was adding user comments back
 > to the Dictionary.

Personally, I prefer dedicated tools.  The MC SE slowed down a lot when 
it was combined with the debugger.  When I forked it I returned to a 
editor separate from a debugger, each purpose-built for the task they do 
(extra bonus points that a sufficiently discrete debugger can also be 
used in a standalone).

Combining lots of functionality into one window contributes to 
complexity, which often finds expression in performance, and can slow 
maintenance work while increasing cognitive load for user and developer 
alike.

For that reason, I'd prefer a wiki be in a layout optimized for reading, 
leaving the script editor optimized for writing.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Thu Jan 24 03:45:41 2019
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 08:45:41 +0000
Subject: Displaying or identifying emoji
In-Reply-To: <1655347D-51DA-4E35-AA4A-1E2411471E21@gmail.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
	<c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>
	<2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>
	<2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>
	<1655347D-51DA-4E35-AA4A-1E2411471E21@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1iUeGjDRsUa3n7pM-7pxXp4h7eXnd9Lasb0uNJOm+OUjg@mail.gmail.com>

For the specific examples you have there, simply putting the strings
through textDecode(<string>, "utf-8") will give you your emoji back.

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:34 PM David V Glasgow via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On 23 Jan 2019, at 2:15 pm, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You say you are importing them? From where? A text file or DB?
>
> Basically, Stephen, I take what I am given.
>
> Could be plain text, Word, HTML , even spreadsheetn- and often I don?t
> know any intermediate steps between the original chat record (on whatever
> device and in whatever software was involved), and the final format I
> receive.  Usually I get a digital record, but the last one I received was a
> scan of a fax of a Word document.
>
> I was hoping for easy way to back translate, gobbledegook to emoji
> ID/code, but it looks like maybe there isn?t one.
>
> Thanks to all who chipped in.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Glasgow
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 04:50:46 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 09:50:46 +0000
Subject: Thoughts on Livecode Server
In-Reply-To: <7f58b4dc-a7f6-6b20-9b6d-71070756eb73@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAGASioMPd0KEWRx1WoP5y1b_Bkeympd8h=Zhst0mssdC0Q1kgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f58b4dc-a7f6-6b20-9b6d-71070756eb73@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPpD+KdWCEhnpz7rzg9R3LjMgWB9Me6MChntKhX23OWyg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the time replying Richard!

Let me outline where a bit the context of my questions. It's not about the
basics of how to rn a server / cgi. It's about the relatively long term
direction of server technology and Livecode server. I'm interested to
experiment with Livecode server again as i feel there are soe promising
recent advances which make the technology interesting to develop for long
term.

I'm very familiar with Pierre's work. I think th eIPC / socket based
approach with dockers and cluster management behind a reverse proxy is the
best way to go / standard way to go right now for achieving a scaleable
server deployment with Livecode in the mix, I'd use Livecode for doing
things that I can do quickly in that language and use the more standard
(probably javascript based) web servers for handling standard web traffic.
I'd probably use Livecode for creating authoring environments. I want to be
able to use standard javascript libraries where they are available and not
have to code every library myself in Livecode.

So the main requirement - I think - is for practical Javascript
interoperability on the server side. Ideally we could just "do javascript"
in the server environment, and load whatever node modules we want to do
their thing in Javascript = Livecode server extensions written in
Javascript.

Based on your feedback that we can use "the template xxx" or a stack with a
widget and execute these in the server environment - the thought is that
"do as javascript in browser" would do the job here... this might be a
pragmatic way to develop server side logic in a mix of Javascript and
Livescript without the need for the whole cluster-docker-sockets thing.

The other strategy is basically a web assembly (WASM) take on the same
issue. WASM promises (AFAIK) a medium term strategy not just for creating
elements in the browser - but also for creating applications based on
gluing together various wasm components that could be authored in different
environments / languages.

Related to this approach could be a stop-gap experiment where we create a
javascript server in node / vue - that loads a Livecode engine and modules
based on emscripten export. Again we get a javascript server and access to
the large set of open source modules available with (hopefully?)
bidirectional communication with Javascript.

>From my perspective I'm looking to develop some slow applications over a
3-5 year timescale - from that perspective a LAMP / cgi style solution
looks like it might be a question of running an emulator :) I also need a
positive path / argument for investing more in Livecode long term - so
having a clearer picture about where the whole open language / emscripten /
wasm / server strategy is going would give me a warm feeling inside. It's
also kind of interesting :)

But I'm sure there are people here that know much more than I do about
these issues. Really happy to have feedback - negative or positive /
pointers on things to read / learn!



On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 19:18, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
>
>  > Does anyone have any thoughts on where Livecode server should go / is
>  > going?
>
> So far it goes wherever I take it, so I haven't given much thought
> beyond one enhancement request for init optimization (useful for CGI,
> will make no difference for any use as a persistent process):
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115
>
>
>  > *Full power of Livecode?*
>  > My first question is what are the actual limits of what you can do on
>  > the server, as compared with the desktop version? I haven't pushed
>  > this to the limit so maybe yo have?
>
> LC Server is designed to run under CGI.  As with any other CGI, anything
> you can do in launch-run-reply-quit command-line scenario will work
> whether it's local or on a server.
>
>
>  > For instance if I want to integrate Javascript / node.js code into my
>  > server, can I use the built in two way communication between
>  > Javascript and Livecode?
>
> I haven't used LC Server for persistent processes, only CGI. I have used
> standalones for that, however (run with the -ui flag).
>
> Pierre Sahores has done extensive benchmarking on using LC behind a
> reverse proxy (NGineX IIRC?), and I did some tests in a related thread
> using standalones as HTTP daemons directly.
>
> I don't have enough familiarity with Node.js configuration to have an
> opinion about integrating with that specifically, but Pierre might.
> Most folks seem content with CGI use.
>
>
>  > This also leads on to the more general question about the headless
>  > Livecode environment of the server - are then any limits to script
>  > that does stuff like create a stack, add a browser element to the
>  > stack
>
> A browser is a GUI element.  What would its role be in the server
> environment?
>
> If you need to make HTTP requests you can do that far more efficiently
> directly in LC, without encumbering it with an entire separate complex
> browser app embedded in a GUI widget.
>
>
>  > set behaviors
>
> Common features like frontscripts, backscripts, libraries, and behaviors
> all work whether running GUI or CLUI.
>
>
>  > communicate with the newly created stack
>
> In the same process, as easy as with GUI.  Across processes with sockets
> or pipes, or polling in /run/shm/ or other useful location.
>
>
>  > (and hence Javascript
>
> Node-specific stuff is outside my current experience, but given that LC
> supports the most commonly used forms of IPC I can't imagine it couldn't
> be integrated in one way or another.
>
>
>  > destroy the stack and return a result to the browser?
>
> As CGI no need to destroy anything, since everything in the process goes
> away after the reply is delivered to Apache or whatever else calls it.
>
>
>  > I'll be testing this soon, but are there limits to this approach
>  > (apart form speed)?
>
> Speed is a concern in CGI environments, where the entire runtime life
> cycle from launch to quit happens with each request; each request spawns
> a new process, so every millisecond counts.
>
> CGI keeps things discrete and easy to work with (which is how we got the
> "C" in "CGI" <g>), but lazy or complex programming on a sufficiently
> buzy server can create bottlenecks with CPU time and/or RAM.
>
> But that's not an LC thang, that's just how CGI works. Comparing some
> custom scripts to popular frameworks like Drupal shows LC is quite lean
> and performant by comparison (averaging 1/3 CPU time and 1/5 RAM across
> the few scenarios I've benchmarked).
>
> It's an unfair comparison, given the scope of what Drupal does, but was
> enough to encourage me to continue pursuing custom solutions in LC, as I
> can write things from scratch more quickly in LC than I can figure out
> how to move from Drupal 7 to Drupal 8. ;)
>
> Many get hung up on the "But does it scale?" question, but Guy Kawasaki
> and others remind us how many startups fail because they overspent on
> scaling for a market they never grew into because they'd spent all their
> money prematurely on scaling. :)
>
> Look at the number of even reasonably popular sites running through
> Wordpress/PHP on a shared host.  Scaling is overrated for many projects
> that don't have significant marketing budgets to warrant accommodating
> such traffic loads.
>
>
>  > *Emscripten export?*
>  > How about using the exported javascript in the server? Could we have a
>  > node.js based server which server-side uses the big fat Livecode
>  > javascript engine, and exported Livecode HTML5 exported stacks as
>  > server side code?
>
> The main benefit of the HTML export is to provide a GUI for browser
> clients.  I can't think of any advantage in using an interpreted version
> of the engine on a server when a machine-code-compiled version is
> available.
>
>
>  > *Livecode Docker behind reverse proxy*
>  > This is sort of the default I would say in moving on from Nginx or
>  > Apache based hosting of Livecode server. Does anyone have any plans /
>  > experience of doing this?
>
> I don't have the URLs handy at the moment, but Pierre's benchmarks
> posted here a couple years ago were easy enough to find last time I
> searched for them.  He doesn't post here often, so anything from him is
> probably relevant to your interests.
>
>
> In short:
>
> LC is a quite capable server scripting language.  Just about anything
> you can do with Python, Perl, bash, PHP, etc. can be done in LC.  In
> some cases it may be faster, in others slower, but in most cases far
> quicker to develop with.
>
> Given the nearly infinite range of things that can conceivably be done
> with a server scripting language, perhaps the more actionable subset is:
>
> What do you want to build with it?
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 05:04:15 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 10:04:15 +0000
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
References: <b8cd5d9a-4df2-e531-f727-7d39f39d2bff@pair.com>
	<476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPEZ3LPWWKujhHKpCQYp=qQMmtbEZvo9D6LqHk0NK26Pw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Curry - you wrote:

A project wiki would fit in the SE better than it would the Dictionary,
> of course, it would have more features and I could see that being a tab.
> But then again user keyword comments would fit the Dictionary very well,
> they could simply be added there. Having a separate LC window for a
> project wiki is another approach. I would say the tab would be handier
> and more integrated into workflow, but the separate window might be good
> for performance and memory.


In terms of GUI - it is possible to have the best of both worlds.
Integration into the SE, or have the same stack viewed in it's own window.
On a fast machine you might want the full experience with tabs in the SE
-on a slower machine a separate stack showing only text as fast as
possible. You can use front scripts as Richard says, but i preferred to add
behaviours so as to not pollute the environment.

Adding widgets that live replace say the documentation field is also
possible as the SE is destroyed when closed. I've tested all those and they
work well. It would be better to have a standard for that sort of thing -
as otherwise the development can be broken with RunRev updates - so so far
I've kept my integrations minimal.

For me the first stage is the content, and collaboration workflow - if the
basic content of the documentation and the utility of forking / customising
individual pages for a developer is strong - and i'm not the only one that
likes working that way - then creating more advanced SE integrations looks
straight forwards.


From toolbook at kestner.de  Thu Jan 24 05:46:34 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 11:46:34 +0100
Subject: change http to https, what to do?
Message-ID: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>

Hello,

 

I have some http communication with some PHP programs on my server. The PHP
programs reside in a password protected directory.

I want to change the http communication (put URL) to https (the server has a
certificate) because of the new European Basic Data Protection Regulation.

 

When just changing the "http" to "https" in my URL I get the return message:

"tsneterr: (35) schannel: next InitializeSecurityContext failed:
SEC_E_ILLEGAL_MESSAGE (0x80090326) - This error usually occurs when a fatal
SSL/TLS alert is received (e.g. handshake failed)."

 

Are there any general options in LiveCode, I have to prepare to communicate
via https or what else do I have to change?

Thanks for any experience.

Tiemo

 



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Jan 24 06:31:34 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 12:31:34 +0100
Subject: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <CF4DEE6F-C147-40B1-9F0C-A11D53134503@m-r-d.de>

Hi Tiemo,

i do not know what might be the reason, but when i run into problems with  sftp or https connections i disable 
SSL peer certificate verification  with

tsNetVerifySSLPeer false

just to see if it?s working without verification of the SSL peer certificate.

But i am not sure if this would help you in your case, but you could give it a try.

Regards,

Matthias

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 24.01.2019 um 11:46 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I have some http communication with some PHP programs on my server. The PHP
> programs reside in a password protected directory.
> 
> I want to change the http communication (put URL) to https (the server has a
> certificate) because of the new European Basic Data Protection Regulation.
> 
> 
> 
> When just changing the "http" to "https" in my URL I get the return message:
> 
> "tsneterr: (35) schannel: next InitializeSecurityContext failed:
> SEC_E_ILLEGAL_MESSAGE (0x80090326) - This error usually occurs when a fatal
> SSL/TLS alert is received (e.g. handshake failed)."
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any general options in LiveCode, I have to prepare to communicate
> via https or what else do I have to change?
> 
> Thanks for any experience.
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From toolbook at kestner.de  Thu Jan 24 06:35:17 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 12:35:17 +0100
Subject: AW: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <002901d4b3d8$e1d2bf60$a5783e20$@kestner.de>

What I found is that it seems to be related using a subdomain and SSL in my
url.
mySubdomain points to dir myDir at myDomain and myDomain has a certificate
with "*", so that it also reflects on the subdomain.
This works (SSL):
Put https://www.myDomain.de/myDir/myPHP.php into tRes 
This also works (subdomain, but no SSL):
Put http://www.mySubdomain.myDomain.de/myPHP.php into tRes
But this does not work (Subdomain + SSL):
Put https://www.mySubdomain.myDomain.de/myPHP.php into tRes
Calling this subdomain URL via browser, I can call it with https

Will test Matthias try later, thanks
Tiemo

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 11:47
An: LiveCode User Liste senden <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de>
Betreff: change http to https, what to do?

Hello,

 

I have some http communication with some PHP programs on my server. The PHP
programs reside in a password protected directory.

I want to change the http communication (put URL) to https (the server has a
certificate) because of the new European Basic Data Protection Regulation.

 

When just changing the "http" to "https" in my URL I get the return message:

"tsneterr: (35) schannel: next InitializeSecurityContext failed:
SEC_E_ILLEGAL_MESSAGE (0x80090326) - This error usually occurs when a fatal
SSL/TLS alert is received (e.g. handshake failed)."

 

Are there any general options in LiveCode, I have to prepare to communicate
via https or what else do I have to change?

Thanks for any experience.

Tiemo

 

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 06:47:17 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 11:47:17 +0000
Subject: Browser widget - open in new tab
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPEZ3LPWWKujhHKpCQYp=qQMmtbEZvo9D6LqHk0NK26Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8cd5d9a-4df2-e531-f727-7d39f39d2bff@pair.com>
	<476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
	<CAGASioPEZ3LPWWKujhHKpCQYp=qQMmtbEZvo9D6LqHk0NK26Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPVQ8-ZbA4rt3DDjCaRO4SJv-tsXRij3qHzFxBD_bfNMg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking to see how the new browser widget behaves (only testing on
OSX). It seems to handle web pages that seek to open a window in a new
browser tab differently form before? First it opens them in the browser
widget, and second I'm getting all the messages i'd expect.

Previously we could 'block navigation by trapping a message -- that does
not seem possible now? I tried all the main messages and added `exit to
top` without joy.

What I'd like to do is open a new stack with a browser in it when a user
clicks on an html link that tries to open a new tab in the browser - as far
as I can tel I can trap for the message and so open a new stack etc - but
not prevent the original browser changing to the new url as well?

Is there a way to handle browsers like the web browser handles tabs?

Finally I note that drag-and-drop is disabled in the browser widget - it
neither accepts drag-and-drop, nor can you drag elements out of the widget
view like you can with html elements in a conventional browser. Is there a
reason why we cant drag an html element from the browser widget?


From curry at pair.com  Thu Jan 24 06:58:59 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 06:58:59 -0500
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
References: <476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4136d8b3-718c-305c-f50a-ac4cba0bcb55@pair.com>


Richard:

 > 2. It ain't the field slowing us down.
 > As far as I can tell, the LC field object is pretty
 > responsive to input.

Agreed, vast majority of SE problems are not field problems. I spend a 
lot of my time in fields and it's pleasant. Responsive in most cases.

 > I'm one of the lucky ones, because once I turned off the SE
 > features that seemed likely to slow me down, I no longer have a
 > slow SE.

I'm in the same boat. I hope most people seriously affected can (like 
us) make the right tweaks for their machines.

 > Combining lots of functionality into one window contributes
 > to complexity, which often finds expression in performance

Yep, that's my fear. Adding project wiki (or anything else) to the 
already chubby SE is a bit scary for me. I would feel more at ease with 
a separate wiki window in LC that does nothing at all unless opened. I 
do value the debugging and variables inside SE, I want them there, but 
it's getting heavy and that's enough.

Wiki is not essential to the act of script editing, and perhaps not an 
exact match either - after all, a project involves UI too, and data, and 
for some people and projects that might loom larger than the code. A 
UI-centered person might feel that it's in the wrong place and hate 
going into SE to make notes about UI. Although I do understand the 
passion to integrate something cool! Meanwhile dictionary comments could 
just go in the dictionary; potentially a separate and very simple project.

David:

 > In terms of GUI - it is possible to have the best of both worlds.
 > Integration into the SE, or have the same stack viewed in it's
 > own window.

Sounds good! I bet it will be quite impressive. Just try to ensure the 
un-integrated mode is seriously and extremely un-integrated. :)

 > so far I've kept my integrations minimal.
 > For me the first stage is the content, and collaboration workflow

That will be a neat project to see. Glad you have a vision for it. Great 
things are possible.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 07:07:07 2019
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 12:07:07 +0000
Subject: Displaying or identifying emoji
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1iUeGjDRsUa3n7pM-7pxXp4h7eXnd9Lasb0uNJOm+OUjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <289E62A7-2008-44C8-B771-6BD6EC77C39C@mac.com>
	<1bcabbb4-857b-52ef-8bb8-51835bee9f18@fourthworld.com>
	<c3974538-2e36-8e80-21dd-50a6751b9836@gmail.com>
	<2DB87079-917A-4C2F-BC27-1464159DFE1A@gmail.com>
	<2188C214-60D9-4666-8E53-041268B02AFA@madmansoft.com>
	<1655347D-51DA-4E35-AA4A-1E2411471E21@gmail.com>
	<CAJR0Q1iUeGjDRsUa3n7pM-7pxXp4h7eXnd9Lasb0uNJOm+OUjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BB61B8EE-B729-4C31-9D22-1E2556065D96@gmail.com>

That?s fantastic! Thanks Ali, very helpful.  Awww.  ?????? is a heart!

Thanks again.

> On 24 Jan 2019, at 8:45 am, Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> For the specific examples you have there, simply putting the strings through textDecode(<string>, "utf-8") will give you your emoji back.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:34 PM David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> > On 23 Jan 2019, at 2:15 pm, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > You say you are importing them? From where? A text file or DB?
> 
> Basically, Stephen, I take what I am given.  
> 
> Could be plain text, Word, HTML , even spreadsheetn- and often I don?t know any intermediate steps between the original chat record (on whatever device and in whatever software was involved), and the final format I receive.  Usually I get a digital record, but the last one I received was a scan of a fax of a Word document.
> 
> I was hoping for easy way to back translate, gobbledegook to emoji ID/code, but it looks like maybe there isn?t one.  
> 
> Thanks to all who chipped in.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Jan 24 07:49:48 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 13:49:48 +0100
Subject: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <002901d4b3d8$e1d2bf60$a5783e20$@kestner.de>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
	<002901d4b3d8$e1d2bf60$a5783e20$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <059ECEDB-21AB-411F-99FB-2CA48209BC8E@m-r-d.de>

Did you try subdomain without www?
Put https://mySubdomain.myDomain.de/myPHP.php <https://www.mysubdomain.mydomain.de/myPHP.php> into tRes

www is also a subdomain.

.de  is the top level domain
.mydomain is the second level domain

while any other name  before the second level domain is a subdomain.
e.g.
downloads.livecode.com <http://downloads.livecode.com/>
www.livecode.com <http://www.livecode.com/>
forums.livecode.com <http://forums.livecode.com/>

Of course you could use also www. as an additional prefix of a subdomain, but this does not make sense to me. In most case the server removes that www. part then.

So please try again without www.

Regards,

Matthias







Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 24.01.2019 um 12:35 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> What I found is that it seems to be related using a subdomain and SSL in my
> url.
> mySubdomain points to dir myDir at myDomain and myDomain has a certificate
> with "*", so that it also reflects on the subdomain.
> This works (SSL):
> Put https://www.myDomain.de/myDir/myPHP.php <https://www.mydomain.de/myDir/myPHP.php> into tRes 
> This also works (subdomain, but no SSL):
> Put http://www.mySubdomain.myDomain.de/myPHP.php <http://www.mysubdomain.mydomain.de/myPHP.php> into tRes
> But this does not work (Subdomain + SSL):
> Put https://www.mySubdomain.myDomain.de/myPHP.php <https://www.mysubdomain.mydomain.de/myPHP.php> into tRes
> Calling this subdomain URL via browser, I can call it with https
> 
> Will test Matthias try later, thanks
> Tiemo
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>] Im Auftrag
> von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 11:47
> An: LiveCode User Liste senden <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de <mailto:toolbook at kestner.de>>
> Betreff: change http to https, what to do?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I have some http communication with some PHP programs on my server. The PHP
> programs reside in a password protected directory.
> 
> I want to change the http communication (put URL) to https (the server has a
> certificate) because of the new European Basic Data Protection Regulation.
> 
> 
> 
> When just changing the "http" to "https" in my URL I get the return message:
> 
> "tsneterr: (35) schannel: next InitializeSecurityContext failed:
> SEC_E_ILLEGAL_MESSAGE (0x80090326) - This error usually occurs when a fatal
> SSL/TLS alert is received (e.g. handshake failed)."
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any general options in LiveCode, I have to prepare to communicate
> via https or what else do I have to change?
> 
> Thanks for any experience.
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From toolbook at kestner.de  Thu Jan 24 08:01:50 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 14:01:50 +0100
Subject: AW: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <059ECEDB-21AB-411F-99FB-2CA48209BC8E@m-r-d.de>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>	<002901d4b3d8$e1d2bf60$a5783e20$@kestner.de>
	<059ECEDB-21AB-411F-99FB-2CA48209BC8E@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <003e01d4b3e4$f99f7780$ecde6680$@kestner.de>

Gosh Matthias, that works - so simple! 
Strange to say, why plain http + www works with my subdomain. But I don't care.
Thanks for jumping in.
Tiemo


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 13:50
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Matthias Rebbe <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de>
Betreff: Re: change http to https, what to do?

Did you try subdomain without www?
Put https://mySubdomain.myDomain.de/myPHP.php <https://www.mysubdomain.mydomain.de/myPHP.php> into tRes

www is also a subdomain.

.de  is the top level domain
.mydomain is the second level domain

while any other name  before the second level domain is a subdomain.
e.g.
downloads.livecode.com <http://downloads.livecode.com/> www.livecode.com <http://www.livecode.com/> forums.livecode.com <http://forums.livecode.com/>

Of course you could use also www. as an additional prefix of a subdomain, but this does not make sense to me. In most case the server removes that www. part then.

So please try again without www.

Regards,

Matthias







Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 24.01.2019 um 12:35 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> What I found is that it seems to be related using a subdomain and SSL 
> in my url.
> mySubdomain points to dir myDir at myDomain and myDomain has a 
> certificate with "*", so that it also reflects on the subdomain.
> This works (SSL):
> Put https://www.myDomain.de/myDir/myPHP.php 
> <https://www.mydomain.de/myDir/myPHP.php> into tRes This also works (subdomain, but no SSL):
> Put http://www.mySubdomain.myDomain.de/myPHP.php 
> <http://www.mysubdomain.mydomain.de/myPHP.php> into tRes But this does not work (Subdomain + SSL):
> Put https://www.mySubdomain.myDomain.de/myPHP.php 
> <https://www.mysubdomain.mydomain.de/myPHP.php> into tRes Calling this 
> subdomain URL via browser, I can call it with https
> 
> Will test Matthias try later, thanks
> Tiemo
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>] Im Auftrag von Tiemo 
> Hollmann TB via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 11:47
> An: LiveCode User Liste senden <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com 
> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
> Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de 
> <mailto:toolbook at kestner.de>>
> Betreff: change http to https, what to do?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I have some http communication with some PHP programs on my server. 
> The PHP programs reside in a password protected directory.
> 
> I want to change the http communication (put URL) to https (the server 
> has a
> certificate) because of the new European Basic Data Protection Regulation.
> 
> 
> 
> When just changing the "http" to "https" in my URL I get the return message:
> 
> "tsneterr: (35) schannel: next InitializeSecurityContext failed:
> SEC_E_ILLEGAL_MESSAGE (0x80090326) - This error usually occurs when a 
> fatal SSL/TLS alert is received (e.g. handshake failed)."
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any general options in LiveCode, I have to prepare to 
> communicate via https or what else do I have to change?
> 
> Thanks for any experience.
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
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use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 24 10:41:52 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 15:41:52 +0000
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
References: <b8cd5d9a-4df2-e531-f727-7d39f39d2bff@pair.com>
	<476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EADB0F0A-6F2C-42FE-88D8-37FB2BCA03CE@iotecdigital.com>

GLX2 was great at one time, but certain features added later, like code saving caused problems. I'd like to see GLX2 gone through and made stable again, and although Mark Weider has been very diligent to correct any issues that have sprung up in the past, no can expect him to continue brooding over it indefinitely and getting nothing buy a pat on the back for the effort. 

I wonder if GLX2 is on Github? That would get me into Git for sure. I'd be curious if people having issues with the stock SE also have problems with GLX2 or no. 

Bob S


> On Jan 24, 2019, at 24:36 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> So if anyone were relying on me to fix the SE performance issue (and there are many reasons we're all glad no one is relying on me for that), I'd be inclined to write a new one from scratch instead.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 24 10:45:48 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 15:45:48 +0000
Subject: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <CF4DEE6F-C147-40B1-9F0C-A11D53134503@m-r-d.de>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
	<CF4DEE6F-C147-40B1-9F0C-A11D53134503@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <B4023015-204F-4953-9C7D-192E11C94F9C@iotecdigital.com>

Interesting you should say that. I've noticed on copier interfaces the option to verify the certificate something that can be de-selected. There's got to be a reason why that is. 

Bob S


> On Jan 24, 2019, at 03:31 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> i do not know what might be the reason, but when i run into problems with  sftp or https connections i disable 
> SSL peer certificate verification  with
> 
> tsNetVerifySSLPeer false
> 
> just to see if it?s working without verification of the SSL peer certificate.
> 
> But i am not sure if this would help you in your case, but you could give it a try.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 24 10:48:57 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 15:48:57 +0000
Subject: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <059ECEDB-21AB-411F-99FB-2CA48209BC8E@m-r-d.de>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
	<002901d4b3d8$e1d2bf60$a5783e20$@kestner.de>
	<059ECEDB-21AB-411F-99FB-2CA48209BC8E@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <92DC00BD-98B9-4322-AA2F-2818C86C210B@iotecdigital.com>

Oh right. We get that with our remote support. We tell them to go to join.zoho.com and they go to www.join.zoho.com! DOH!

Bob S


> On Jan 24, 2019, at 04:49 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Did you try subdomain without www?




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jan 24 12:30:48 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 09:30:48 -0800
Subject: Thoughts on Livecode Server
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPpD+KdWCEhnpz7rzg9R3LjMgWB9Me6MChntKhX23OWyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASioPpD+KdWCEhnpz7rzg9R3LjMgWB9Me6MChntKhX23OWyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ba4e6ccf-a440-b9fd-2d46-f87c3fe205d7@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > I want to be able to use standard javascript libraries where they
 > are available and not have to code every library myself in Livecode.

Practical, even smart.  But disappointing. :)  It would be super-cool if 
we had time to rewrite those in native LC, so the body of code in our 
community grows.  But I can't argue against the practicality of not 
reinventing every wheel.


 > So the main requirement - I think - is for practical Javascript
 > interoperability on the server side. Ideally we could just "do
 > javascript" in the server environment, and load whatever node modules
 > we want to do their thing in Javascript = Livecode server extensions
 > written in Javascript.
 >
 > Based on your feedback that we can use "the template xxx" or a stack
 > with a widget and execute these in the server environment - the
 > thought is that "do as javascript in browser" would do the job here...

Embedding an entire browser application into a GUI widgets seems an 
expensive way to execute JavaScript.  On the desktop we have little 
choice, but in a Node.js environment isn't there some way to pass JS off 
to Node for evaluation?

Whether through command line or sockets or whatever else Node may 
provide, since it already has a great JS interpreter it would seem a 
shame to introduce a second one just for LC.

Moreover, I'm not sure the embedded browser app has options for running 
facelessly; designed for GUI rendering, I would expect it requires GUI 
libs not normally present on servers.

We sometimes get spoiled by LC's GUI-agnostic design, where a simple -ui 
flag turns a GUI system into CLUI.  I'm not sure browser vendors provide 
that.

I don't have enough experience with Node.js to point toward a solution, 
but I suspect that a JS-based environment has options for evaluating JS.

If simpler methods like a command-line call to Node aren't available for 
that, I would imagine any API it has can be accessed from LC Builder.



 > The other strategy is basically a web assembly (WASM) take on the same
 > issue. WASM promises (AFAIK) a medium term strategy not just for
 > creating elements in the browser - but also for creating applications
 > based on gluing together various wasm components that could be
 > authored in different environments / languages.

Apparently WASM is available in Node.js, so once you work out how to 
exchange calls between LC and Node I'd guess that could include WASM code.



 > Related to this approach could be a stop-gap experiment where we
 > create a javascript server in node / vue - that loads a Livecode
 > engine and modules based on emscripten export.

I would be disinclined to use an interpreted version of the LC engine 
while a machine-code compiled version is available.

Maybe I'm not seeing the vision there, but I can't see the advantage of 
using a version of the engine which can only execute more slowly and 
require more RAM than the compiled version we already know and love.



 > From my perspective I'm looking to develop some slow applications over
 > a 3-5 year timescale - from that perspective a LAMP / cgi style
 > solution looks like it might be a question of running an emulator :)

Maybe.  Half a decade is a long time; so much can happen.  Emulators are 
good where emulation is needed, but it's hard to beat the horsepower of 
machine-native code.


 > I also need a positive path / argument for investing more in Livecode
 > long term - so having a clearer picture about where the whole open
 > language / emscripten / wasm / server strategy is going would give me
 > a warm feeling inside. It's also kind of interesting :)

Very interesting.  Perhaps Mark Waddingham will be in a position to tip 
his hand about future options.

For client-side work I would imagine the Emscripten team already has 
WASM output, so LC would likely be able to use that output with little 
work from the LC team, at least for those browsers that support WASM at 
this time.


For the bigger question about justifying investment in LC, there are so 
many factors there that for myself I consider it almost entirely 
subjective, and often positively favoring LC in that regard.

If developers were to choose languages based only on popularity rather 
than features, there would be only one.  But we have hundreds, with new 
ones invented every year.

Ruby was a nearly-forgotten niche project that enjoyed an explosion of 
interest only after some clever team outside of the Ruby core project 
decided to invest in building a framework unique to that language they 
called Rails.

There's always the chance that a sufficiently-compelling toolkit will 
emerge in our community, based wholly in LC as Rails is on Ruby, where 
the benefits are so self-evident it takes off as rapidly as RoR did.



An arguably space-cadet-but-maybe-not PS:

I'm still not over the grace and utility of delivering stack files over 
HTTP.

There's something almost magical about being able to deliver a 
native-app experience with all the flexibility of HTTP delivery, all in 
a compact binary stack file that can be sent compressed over the wire 
with glorious ease, unencumbered by the confines of an ordinary HTML 
browser.

I don't think we've seen the end of that yet.  Right now it may seem a 
solution in search of a problem, but once the right problem is 
discovered it just might be the thing that turns more than a few heads 
toward LC...


Sometimes being an island without universal interoperability is a 
feature rather than a bug, a universe of private graynets where 
collaboration happens outside the indexable Web with more freedom and 
fluidity than conforming to existing standards designed for general 
public consumption.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 24 13:52:00 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 18:52:00 +0000
Subject: Lock Screen does NOT work!
Message-ID: <13FF447C-950C-45E8-93BD-E2DD6FF29CDB@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. Bold subject line I know. Here's how I know. 

I used Find in This Stack and it's SubStacks to find "lock screen". I replaced all with "-- lock screen" effectively commenting out ALL of the lock screen statements. I verified by checking one of the found scripts and indeed lock screen is commented out! With me so far? 

I then go to the ONE SCRIPT that I am testing with and uncomment that ONE LINE with the lock screen statement. I execute the code, the screen does NOT LOCK. I still see several updates, like a datagrid loading new data, then loading a different dataset! I should only see the loading of the second dataset! BOO!!!

I suspected this was the case for some time but never got around to testing this for sure until just now. Something is either unlocking the screen or else is never locking it, and it isn't my code. 

Bob S


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 24 14:00:28 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:00:28 +0000
Subject: Lock Screen does NOT work!
In-Reply-To: <13FF447C-950C-45E8-93BD-E2DD6FF29CDB@iotecdigital.com>
References: <13FF447C-950C-45E8-93BD-E2DD6FF29CDB@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <F570E163-E377-47CB-AE00-7D83F11D1376@iotecdigital.com>

Hmmm... Belay that. I bet I am using send in time somewhere prior to the datagrid updates. That would pop an idle message and cancel the screen lock. 

Bob S


> On Jan 24, 2019, at 10:52 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. Bold subject line I know. Here's how I know. 
> 
> I used Find in This Stack and it's SubStacks to find "lock screen". I replaced all with "-- lock screen" effectively commenting out ALL of the lock screen statements. I verified by checking one of the found scripts and indeed lock screen is commented out! With me so far? 
> 
> I then go to the ONE SCRIPT that I am testing with and uncomment that ONE LINE with the lock screen statement. I execute the code, the screen does NOT LOCK. I still see several updates, like a datagrid loading new data, then loading a different dataset! I should only see the loading of the second dataset! BOO!!!
> 
> I suspected this was the case for some time but never got around to testing this for sure until just now. Something is either unlocking the screen or else is never locking it, and it isn't my code. 
> 
> Bob S




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 24 14:29:13 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:29:13 +0000
Subject: Lock Screen does NOT work!
In-Reply-To: <F570E163-E377-47CB-AE00-7D83F11D1376@iotecdigital.com>
References: <13FF447C-950C-45E8-93BD-E2DD6FF29CDB@iotecdigital.com>
	<F570E163-E377-47CB-AE00-7D83F11D1376@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <E49B4701-8161-4232-968B-A22E3D51BAD3@iotecdigital.com>

For those interested, I've had a bit of a revelation concerning datagrids and the selectionChanged handler. Here's the problem. 

I use datagrids extensively. I have code in my selectionChanged handlers in the datagrids that update the card objects; fields buttons etc. It's convenient for me therefore when I change the hilited line by script to simply send selectionChanged to the appropriate datagrid. This however has uncovered an anomaly (I don't say bug) where an endless recursion can occur in the datagrid library if selectionChanged gets called again while the first is still executing. 

My solution heretofore has been to send in time whenever I do this with a datagrid. Well then the problem is, send in time cancels ALL my screen locks! One idle message and the engine clears all the locks! 

So now I see that I have to move the code which updates the card OUT of the selectionChanged handler into it's own custom handler, and call that handler when I need to do so. I guess this goes back to an old "best practice" coding concept I heard some time ago about always using custom handlers to do the work, instead of the built in handlers. Now I see why that is such good advice. 

I hope my little journey and conclusions will help to prevent anyone else from stumbling on similar problems. 

Bob S


> On Jan 24, 2019, at 11:00 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hmmm... Belay that. I bet I am using send in time somewhere prior to the datagrid updates. That would pop an idle message and cancel the screen lock. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 24, 2019, at 10:52 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. Bold subject line I know. Here's how I know. 
>> 
>> I used Find in This Stack and it's SubStacks to find "lock screen". I replaced all with "-- lock screen" effectively commenting out ALL of the lock screen statements. I verified by checking one of the found scripts and indeed lock screen is commented out! With me so far? 
>> 
>> I then go to the ONE SCRIPT that I am testing with and uncomment that ONE LINE with the lock screen statement. I execute the code, the screen does NOT LOCK. I still see several updates, like a datagrid loading new data, then loading a different dataset! I should only see the loading of the second dataset! BOO!!!
>> 
>> I suspected this was the case for some time but never got around to testing this for sure until just now. Something is either unlocking the screen or else is never locking it, and it isn't my code. 
>> 
>> Bob S



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Jan 24 14:48:31 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 14:48:31 -0500
Subject: Lock Screen does NOT work!
In-Reply-To: <E49B4701-8161-4232-968B-A22E3D51BAD3@iotecdigital.com>
References: <13FF447C-950C-45E8-93BD-E2DD6FF29CDB@iotecdigital.com>	<F570E163-E377-47CB-AE00-7D83F11D1376@iotecdigital.com>
	<E49B4701-8161-4232-968B-A22E3D51BAD3@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <009b01d4b41d$cc3650f0$64a2f2d0$@net>

Poof.. Mind not blown but enlightened. That explains some screen update
problems I've had in the past. Thanks!

> Well then the problem is, send in time cancels ALL my screen locks! One
idle message and the engine clears all the locks!

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 2:29 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: Re: Lock Screen does NOT work!

For those interested, I've had a bit of a revelation concerning datagrids
and the selectionChanged handler. Here's the problem. 

I use datagrids extensively. I have code in my selectionChanged handlers in
the datagrids that update the card objects; fields buttons etc. It's
convenient for me therefore when I change the hilited line by script to
simply send selectionChanged to the appropriate datagrid. This however has
uncovered an anomaly (I don't say bug) where an endless recursion can occur
in the datagrid library if selectionChanged gets called again while the
first is still executing. 

My solution heretofore has been to send in time whenever I do this with a
datagrid. Well then the problem is, send in time cancels ALL my screen
locks! One idle message and the engine clears all the locks! 

So now I see that I have to move the code which updates the card OUT of the
selectionChanged handler into it's own custom handler, and call that handler
when I need to do so. I guess this goes back to an old "best practice"
coding concept I heard some time ago about always using custom handlers to
do the work, instead of the built in handlers. Now I see why that is such
good advice. 

I hope my little journey and conclusions will help to prevent anyone else
from stumbling on similar problems. 

Bob S


> On Jan 24, 2019, at 11:00 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hmmm... Belay that. I bet I am using send in time somewhere prior to the
datagrid updates. That would pop an idle message and cancel the screen lock.

> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 24, 2019, at 10:52 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. Bold subject line I know. Here's how I know. 
>> 
>> I used Find in This Stack and it's SubStacks to find "lock screen". I
replaced all with "-- lock screen" effectively commenting out ALL of the
lock screen statements. I verified by checking one of the found scripts and
indeed lock screen is commented out! With me so far? 
>> 
>> I then go to the ONE SCRIPT that I am testing with and uncomment that ONE
LINE with the lock screen statement. I execute the code, the screen does NOT
LOCK. I still see several updates, like a datagrid loading new data, then
loading a different dataset! I should only see the loading of the second
dataset! BOO!!!
>> 
>> I suspected this was the case for some time but never got around to
testing this for sure until just now. Something is either unlocking the
screen or else is never locking it, and it isn't my code. 
>> 
>> Bob S

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jan 24 15:11:27 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 14:11:27 -0600
Subject: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <B4023015-204F-4953-9C7D-192E11C94F9C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
	<CF4DEE6F-C147-40B1-9F0C-A11D53134503@m-r-d.de>
	<B4023015-204F-4953-9C7D-192E11C94F9C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <e12c3216-5c93-7826-a8e8-f665b84c5ac2@hyperactivesw.com>

> On Jan 24, 2019, at 03:31 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:
> i do not know what might be the reason, but when i run into problems with  sftp or https connections i disable
> SSL peer certificate verification  with
>
> tsNetVerifySSLPeer false
>
> just to see if it?s working without verification of the SSL peer certificate.

I've had a problem in the past where a certificate fails in the hops 
between the client and the server. (At least, I think that was the 
problem.) I had to set libURLSetSSLVerification to false, which isn't 
safe but allows all connections to work.

How does tsNetVerifySSLPeer compare to libURLSetSSLVerification? Is 
verification of peers different from verification of all certificates?


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Thu Jan 24 16:47:48 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:47:48 +0000
Subject: Lock Screen does NOT work!
In-Reply-To: <E49B4701-8161-4232-968B-A22E3D51BAD3@iotecdigital.com>
References: <13FF447C-950C-45E8-93BD-E2DD6FF29CDB@iotecdigital.com>
	<F570E163-E377-47CB-AE00-7D83F11D1376@iotecdigital.com>
	<E49B4701-8161-4232-968B-A22E3D51BAD3@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <4AF46DF7-A3D4-434A-89AA-FEF3CD81F8D6@iotecdigital.com>

Oooohkaaaay...

So the problem is not calling selectionChanged while another selectionChanged is running. The problem is setting the dgData (or dgText I will assume) while a selectionChanged handler is running. I remember I tracked that down before this. Setting the dgData is obviously triggering selectionChanged from within the datagrid library. 

Soooo... I AM calling this a bug!!! I will try to put together a recipe for this and submit it. 

Bob S


> On Jan 24, 2019, at 11:29 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> For those interested, I've had a bit of a revelation concerning datagrids and the selectionChanged handler. Here's the problem. 
> 
> I use datagrids extensively. I have code in my selectionChanged handlers in the datagrids that update the card objects; fields buttons etc. It's convenient for me therefore when I change the hilited line by script to simply send selectionChanged to the appropriate datagrid. This however has uncovered an anomaly (I don't say bug) where an endless recursion can occur in the datagrid library if selectionChanged gets called again while the first is still executing. 




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Jan 24 17:27:54 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 23:27:54 +0100
Subject: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <e12c3216-5c93-7826-a8e8-f665b84c5ac2@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
	<CF4DEE6F-C147-40B1-9F0C-A11D53134503@m-r-d.de>
	<B4023015-204F-4953-9C7D-192E11C94F9C@iotecdigital.com>
	<e12c3216-5c93-7826-a8e8-f665b84c5ac2@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F4DEC602-3A5A-48D5-ABF8-787BD0B40895@m-r-d.de>



> Am 24.01.2019 um 21:11 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
>> On Jan 24, 2019, at 03:31 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>  wrote:
>> i do not know what might be the reason, but when i run into problems with  sftp or https connections i disable
>> SSL peer certificate verification  with
>> 
>> tsNetVerifySSLPeer false
>> 
>> just to see if it?s working without verification of the SSL peer certificate.
> 
> I've had a problem in the past where a certificate fails in the hops between the client and the server. (At least, I think that was the problem.) I had to set libURLSetSSLVerification to false, which isn't safe but allows all connections to work.
> 
> How does tsNetVerifySSLPeer compare to libURLSetSSLVerification? Is verification of peers different from verification of all certificates?
> 

For community edition libURLSetSSLVerfication is the only way to disable the SSL Verification.
In Indy and Business i think you can use both, because LibURL library contains a tsNet wrapper, so that if tsNET is available,then libURL uses tsNet instead of the normal liburl script.  That?s how i understood how liburl and tsNet work together.

But i think Charles Warwick could explain it better. ;)  He wrote the wrapper in liburl.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From martyknappster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 19:21:10 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 16:21:10 -0800
Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
Message-ID: <B257CD10-7B56-489B-824D-0CCBCDE1363A@gmail.com>

I have an app that allows users to create documents and store then in a specified folder. Via a preference setting they can move the folder to a location of their choosing. I use revMoveFolder to do this. You can also move the folder where you want and then drag and drop it on the preference stack to establish the path to where it is.

This works fine on Mac but not on Windows - it fails. In fact when the app is open and I try to manually move the folder, Windows tells me "The action can't be completed because the folder is open in another program."

I understand that if a file was open by the app that this would come into play but how is a folder open to another program? Is there a way around this?

Marty


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jan 24 19:23:22 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 18:23:22 -0600
Subject: change http to https, what to do?
In-Reply-To: <F4DEC602-3A5A-48D5-ABF8-787BD0B40895@m-r-d.de>
References: <001601d4b3d2$1567df60$40379e20$@kestner.de>
	<CF4DEE6F-C147-40B1-9F0C-A11D53134503@m-r-d.de>
	<B4023015-204F-4953-9C7D-192E11C94F9C@iotecdigital.com>
	<e12c3216-5c93-7826-a8e8-f665b84c5ac2@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F4DEC602-3A5A-48D5-ABF8-787BD0B40895@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <6b2167fc-6467-6135-0609-6fda43b02864@hyperactivesw.com>

On 1/24/19 4:27 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> 
> 
>> Am 24.01.2019 um 21:11 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>
>>> On Jan 24, 2019, at 03:31 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>  wrote:
>>> i do not know what might be the reason, but when i run into problems with  sftp or https connections i disable
>>> SSL peer certificate verification  with
>>>
>>> tsNetVerifySSLPeer false
>>>
>>> just to see if it?s working without verification of the SSL peer certificate.
>>
>> I've had a problem in the past where a certificate fails in the hops between the client and the server. (At least, I think that was the problem.) I had to set libURLSetSSLVerification to false, which isn't safe but allows all connections to work.
>>
>> How does tsNetVerifySSLPeer compare to libURLSetSSLVerification? Is verification of peers different from verification of all certificates?
>>
> 
> For community edition libURLSetSSLVerfication is the only way to disable the SSL Verification.
> In Indy and Business i think you can use both, because LibURL library contains a tsNet wrapper, so that if tsNET is available,then libURL uses tsNet instead of the normal liburl script.  That?s how i understood how liburl and tsNet work together.
> 
> But i think Charles Warwick could explain it better. ;)  He wrote the wrapper in liburl.

I'm using the Business edition so I can use either command. But my main 
question is whether it is possible to ignore intermediate SSL 
certificates while still verifying the target server certificate. Or 
would that be unsafe too?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Jan 24 20:07:55 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:07:55 -0500
Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
In-Reply-To: <B257CD10-7B56-489B-824D-0CCBCDE1363A@gmail.com>
References: <B257CD10-7B56-489B-824D-0CCBCDE1363A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c901d4b44a$6a01f600$3e05e200$@net>

Beyond the obvious of having files open in the folder could it be that if
you trying to move LC's current defaultfolder it causes a problem on
Windows?
 
Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Knapp Martin via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 7:21 PM
To: Use Livecode
Cc: Knapp Martin
Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows

I have an app that allows users to create documents and store then in a
specified folder. Via a preference setting they can move the folder to a
location of their choosing. I use revMoveFolder to do this. You can also
move the folder where you want and then drag and drop it on the preference
stack to establish the path to where it is.

This works fine on Mac but not on Windows - it fails. In fact when the app
is open and I try to manually move the folder, Windows tells me "The action
can't be completed because the folder is open in another program."

I understand that if a file was open by the app that this would come into
play but how is a folder open to another program? Is there a way around
this?

Marty
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From brian at milby7.com  Thu Jan 24 20:22:28 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:22:28 -0600
Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
In-Reply-To: <00c901d4b44a$6a01f600$3e05e200$@net>
References: <B257CD10-7B56-489B-824D-0CCBCDE1363A@gmail.com>
	<00c901d4b44a$6a01f600$3e05e200$@net>
Message-ID: <e4af8737-a90c-443b-81de-fd08c77b2364@Spark>

I think programs can lock a folder by having it set as the default folder (or it could just be a side effect of them storing something there). ?I?ve seen it every once in a while in other programs, but can?t remember the last time. ?I have not tried to see if I could reproduce in LiveCode yet. ?Ralph?s suggestion sounds like a good thing to try.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 24, 2019, 7:05 PM -0600, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Beyond the obvious of having files open in the folder could it be that if
> you trying to move LC's current defaultfolder it causes a problem on
> Windows?
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Knapp Martin via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 7:21 PM
> To: Use Livecode
> Cc: Knapp Martin
> Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
>
> I have an app that allows users to create documents and store then in a
> specified folder. Via a preference setting they can move the folder to a
> location of their choosing. I use revMoveFolder to do this. You can also
> move the folder where you want and then drag and drop it on the preference
> stack to establish the path to where it is.
>
> This works fine on Mac but not on Windows - it fails. In fact when the app
> is open and I try to manually move the folder, Windows tells me "The action
> can't be completed because the folder is open in another program."
>
> I understand that if a file was open by the app that this would come into
> play but how is a folder open to another program? Is there a way around
> this?
>
> Marty
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Jan 24 20:32:23 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:32:23 -0500
Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
In-Reply-To: <e4af8737-a90c-443b-81de-fd08c77b2364@Spark>
References: <B257CD10-7B56-489B-824D-0CCBCDE1363A@gmail.com>	<00c901d4b44a$6a01f600$3e05e200$@net>
	<e4af8737-a90c-443b-81de-fd08c77b2364@Spark>
Message-ID: <00ca01d4b44d$d50ce2e0$7f26a8a0$@net>

I've seen that with Excel with either the file or the folder(can't remember). I opened a spreadsheet and closed it but the file/folder was still locked until I closed Excel.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 8:22 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Brian Milby
Subject: RE: revMoveFolder on Windows

I think programs can lock a folder by having it set as the default folder (or it could just be a side effect of them storing something there).  I?ve seen it every once in a while in other programs, but can?t remember the last time.  I have not tried to see if I could reproduce in LiveCode yet.  Ralph?s suggestion sounds like a good thing to try.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 24, 2019, 7:05 PM -0600, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Beyond the obvious of having files open in the folder could it be that 
> if you trying to move LC's current defaultfolder it causes a problem 
> on Windows?
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
> Behalf Of Knapp Martin via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 7:21 PM
> To: Use Livecode
> Cc: Knapp Martin
> Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
>
> I have an app that allows users to create documents and store then in 
> a specified folder. Via a preference setting they can move the folder 
> to a location of their choosing. I use revMoveFolder to do this. You 
> can also move the folder where you want and then drag and drop it on 
> the preference stack to establish the path to where it is.
>
> This works fine on Mac but not on Windows - it fails. In fact when the 
> app is open and I try to manually move the folder, Windows tells me 
> "The action can't be completed because the folder is open in another program."
>
> I understand that if a file was open by the app that this would come 
> into play but how is a folder open to another program? Is there a way 
> around this?
>
> Marty
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From gcanyon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 22:24:07 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:24:07 -0800
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
References: <b8cd5d9a-4df2-e531-f727-7d39f39d2bff@pair.com>
	<476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrjTXsPLM0VFQeQcoG5+xFQ+NbjNE5TjE-pPEC1uj1joQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 12:36 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> When I forked it I returned to a
> editor separate from a debugger, each purpose-built for the task they do
>

YES. If I had a nickel for every time I expand the variable list while in
the debugger, then shrink back that section while editing a script. If
there is an easy recipe for automating this, anyone, please share. Or how
hard is it to set up to edit scripts with an external editor, and maybe
just debug with the built-in?


From brian at milby7.com  Thu Jan 24 23:01:16 2019
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 22:01:16 -0600
Subject: Us and them? [was Re: Livecode Dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtrjTXsPLM0VFQeQcoG5+xFQ+NbjNE5TjE-pPEC1uj1joQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8cd5d9a-4df2-e531-f727-7d39f39d2bff@pair.com>
	<476642f0-545e-0aa8-0ecc-469d0e82c392@fourthworld.com>
	<CAKCLKtrjTXsPLM0VFQeQcoG5+xFQ+NbjNE5TjE-pPEC1uj1joQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cb47313-91f1-421c-a246-2a9882849889@Spark>

If using a binary stack, ScriptTracker makes it easy to edit scripts in an external editor.
Levure includes a server process that allows Sublime Text tell LC to reload a script only stack when saved from there (I don?t think it depends on the app itself being managed with Levure). ?I use Atom because it is free and has linting support available.

I?d love to build that client-server functionality into Atom, but have not looked enough into it. ?ScriptTracker works by watching the script export directory looking for changes. ?When a file is saved, it imports it into the stack if the content changed (uses a hash to detect changes). ?If I could do the client-server thing then it would be much easier to generalize to any open stack instead of a single mainstack at a time (I?m thinking mainly of the performance impact of watching too many directories for changes at one time).

After this move is behind me I should have more time to code again.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 24, 2019, 9:25 PM -0600, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 12:36 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > When I forked it I returned to a
> > editor separate from a debugger, each purpose-built for the task they do
> >
>
> YES. If I had a nickel for every time I expand the variable list while in
> the debugger, then shrink back that section while editing a script. If
> there is an easy recipe for automating this, anyone, please share. Or how
> hard is it to set up to edit scripts with an external editor, and maybe
> just debug with the built-in?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 01:58:50 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 22:58:50 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.2rc1 is available
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>

As usual, you can get Navigator here
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab it
from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.

For details read the release notes
<https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/releases/tag/v7.2rc1>, but briefly
this:

-- fixes the color sets being borked by an earlier release.
-- significantly improves the relayering code -- again.
-- -- It was a minor thing, but it should now be possible to have a group
be the topmost object, and drag a control below it in Navigator's list, and
have the control *not* placed into the group, which is now consistent with
the behavior in any other circumstance.
-- -- Also, there were circumstances where Navigator would start editing a
group to place a control into the group, and then fail, leaving the group
in edit mode. This should now be fixed.
-- -- Finally, the relayering code has again been simplified. Details below
if anyone is curious -- it's weird.

If you find any bugs, file them here
<https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues>.

----------------------------------------------------

To achieve uniform behavior with the simplest code, here are (most of) the
relayering steps in pseudo LC:

set relayergroupedcontrols to true
set layer to 1 -- this gets the control out of any groups it is in
set relayergroupedcontrols to false
set layer to 9999999 -- the control is now at the highest level
if target is group then
   set relayergroupedcontrols to true
   set the layer to 1 + the layer of the target group -- the control is now
in the group
   set relayergroupedcontrols to false
   start editing group
   set layer to 9999999 -- the control is now at the highest level of the
group
end if
if targetobject is not empty -- the object to place the control just under
-- if empty, the control should remain at the top
    then set the layer to the layer of the targetobject -- works whether
editing a group or not
if target is group
    then stop editing group -- need to make sure to use a "background"
reference

This doesn't include the logic for using the option key to move/copy if the
control is from another card, or duplicate/move if from the same card.

Also important to use simple references that don't include the full
hierarchy of groups, since that will fail while editing a group.


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 14:07:15 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 11:07:15 -0800
Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
In-Reply-To: <00ca01d4b44d$d50ce2e0$7f26a8a0$@net>
References: <B257CD10-7B56-489B-824D-0CCBCDE1363A@gmail.com>
	<00c901d4b44a$6a01f600$3e05e200$@net>
	<e4af8737-a90c-443b-81de-fd08c77b2364@Spark>
	<00ca01d4b44d$d50ce2e0$7f26a8a0$@net>
Message-ID: <3124B95D-E267-490A-91EB-603207F27591@gmail.com>

I made a simple test stack to move folders, saved as a standalone and it works fine - even moving the folder I?m trying to move in my real app. In my app where I?m having trouble (works fine on Mac but not on Windows) the result is returning ?1? which isn?t really helpful!

Marty
> On Jan 24, 2019, at 5:32 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I've seen that with Excel with either the file or the folder(can't remember). I opened a spreadsheet and closed it but the file/folder was still locked until I closed Excel.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 8:22 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Brian Milby
> Subject: RE: revMoveFolder on Windows
> 
> I think programs can lock a folder by having it set as the default folder (or it could just be a side effect of them storing something there).  I?ve seen it every once in a while in other programs, but can?t remember the last time.  I have not tried to see if I could reproduce in LiveCode yet.  Ralph?s suggestion sounds like a good thing to try.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Jan 24, 2019, 7:05 PM -0600, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> Beyond the obvious of having files open in the folder could it be that 
>> if you trying to move LC's current defaultfolder it causes a problem 
>> on Windows?
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Knapp Martin via use-livecode
>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 7:21 PM
>> To: Use Livecode
>> Cc: Knapp Martin
>> Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
>> 
>> I have an app that allows users to create documents and store then in 
>> a specified folder. Via a preference setting they can move the folder 
>> to a location of their choosing. I use revMoveFolder to do this. You 
>> can also move the folder where you want and then drag and drop it on 
>> the preference stack to establish the path to where it is.
>> 
>> This works fine on Mac but not on Windows - it fails. In fact when the 
>> app is open and I try to manually move the folder, Windows tells me 
>> "The action can't be completed because the folder is open in another program."
>> 
>> I understand that if a file was open by the app that this would come 
>> into play but how is a folder open to another program? Is there a way 
>> around this?
>> 
>> Marty
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 25 16:19:06 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:19:06 +0000
Subject: Navigator 7.2rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9EB99105-C64D-417D-86EB-CB437A312A4E@iotecdigital.com>

Hate to do this to you Geoff but the groups are not folding again. 

I click in the shaded area nothing. I right click on the name of the group and select fold level 1, nothing. 

Bob S




From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 16:32:07 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 13:32:07 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.2rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <9EB99105-C64D-417D-86EB-CB437A312A4E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB99105-C64D-417D-86EB-CB437A312A4E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <70817D7A-D820-439B-B6F9-5BD656919446@gmail.com>

Bah, I?ll take a look later today. 

gc

> On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hate to do this to you Geoff but the groups are not folding again. 
> 
> I click in the shaded area nothing. I right click on the name of the group and select fold level 1, nothing. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 17:16:20 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 14:16:20 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.2rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <70817D7A-D820-439B-B6F9-5BD656919446@gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB99105-C64D-417D-86EB-CB437A312A4E@iotecdigital.com>
	<70817D7A-D820-439B-B6F9-5BD656919446@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtprQ2OXxZqJL5bnZaKwf0hhqT8N_rLqnQO5xdnoMLjgzw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not seeing this? I tried both with a specific stack and (what I
remember from the last time) "this card of the topstack". Folding is
working for me, both by clicking in the margin, and by selecting a fold
level on the popup menu for a card or group.

Any specific recipe?

gc

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:32 PM Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bah, I?ll take a look later today.
>
> gc
>
> > On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hate to do this to you Geoff but the groups are not folding again.
> >
> > I click in the shaded area nothing. I right click on the name of the
> group and select fold level 1, nothing.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri Jan 25 18:11:13 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 23:11:13 +0000
Subject: Navigator 7.2rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtprQ2OXxZqJL5bnZaKwf0hhqT8N_rLqnQO5xdnoMLjgzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB99105-C64D-417D-86EB-CB437A312A4E@iotecdigital.com>
	<70817D7A-D820-439B-B6F9-5BD656919446@gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtprQ2OXxZqJL5bnZaKwf0hhqT8N_rLqnQO5xdnoMLjgzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F7F38E47-1693-49EA-8401-4CECB5CBEC5A@iotecdigital.com>

Nope. Running LC 9.0.2 Community, MacOS 10.14.2, Navigator 7.2 RC1. If you point me to where the folding code actually happens, I can turn on rev development and trace it. 

Bob S


> On Jan 25, 2019, at 14:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not seeing this? I tried both with a specific stack and (what I
> remember from the last time) "this card of the topstack". Folding is
> working for me, both by clicking in the margin, and by selecting a fold
> level on the popup menu for a card or group.
> 
> Any specific recipe?
> 
> gc




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 18:33:15 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 23:33:15 +0000
Subject: Howto play live video from webcam on OSX?
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioNSJ7KqXTKM-PrVKQEbj7H9PocTeLdVwpb+r6fe6-wneA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to show live webcam footage in a Livecode stack on OSX.

*Browser*
The following works well in the browser but requires permissions to be
agreed with a browser dialogue that does not show in the embedded browser.

   - https://davidwalsh.name/demo/camera.php

It would be great to get that working as there is a lot that can be done
once it;s in the browser widget.

*mergAVPlayer*
The alternative is Indy and mergAVPlayer

   - http://mergext.com/home/mergav/

*Player object*
Once upon a time we could use af few tricks with the player object or use
revVideoGrab...

Any idea how to achieve this - the browser widget based option would be my
favourite?


From martyknappster at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 18:51:46 2019
From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Knapp Martin)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 15:51:46 -0800
Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
In-Reply-To: <00ca01d4b44d$d50ce2e0$7f26a8a0$@net>
References: <B257CD10-7B56-489B-824D-0CCBCDE1363A@gmail.com>
	<00c901d4b44a$6a01f600$3e05e200$@net>
	<e4af8737-a90c-443b-81de-fd08c77b2364@Spark>
	<00ca01d4b44d$d50ce2e0$7f26a8a0$@net>
Message-ID: <83CB2D95-9013-4325-9CC7-4431381CE6FA@gmail.com>

Well this turned out to be a default folder issue. So just before I move the folder, I set the default folder to something other than where the user stacks are stored and then the move works fine. It only seems to be an issue on Windows. Thanks to Ralph and Brian.

Marty

> On Jan 24, 2019, at 5:32 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I've seen that with Excel with either the file or the folder(can't remember). I opened a spreadsheet and closed it but the file/folder was still locked until I closed Excel.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 8:22 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Brian Milby
> Subject: RE: revMoveFolder on Windows
> 
> I think programs can lock a folder by having it set as the default folder (or it could just be a side effect of them storing something there).  I?ve seen it every once in a while in other programs, but can?t remember the last time.  I have not tried to see if I could reproduce in LiveCode yet.  Ralph?s suggestion sounds like a good thing to try.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Jan 24, 2019, 7:05 PM -0600, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> Beyond the obvious of having files open in the folder could it be that 
>> if you trying to move LC's current defaultfolder it causes a problem 
>> on Windows?
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Knapp Martin via use-livecode
>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 7:21 PM
>> To: Use Livecode
>> Cc: Knapp Martin
>> Subject: revMoveFolder on Windows
>> 
>> I have an app that allows users to create documents and store then in 
>> a specified folder. Via a preference setting they can move the folder 
>> to a location of their choosing. I use revMoveFolder to do this. You 
>> can also move the folder where you want and then drag and drop it on 
>> the preference stack to establish the path to where it is.
>> 
>> This works fine on Mac but not on Windows - it fails. In fact when the 
>> app is open and I try to manually move the folder, Windows tells me 
>> "The action can't be completed because the folder is open in another program."
>> 
>> I understand that if a file was open by the app that this would come 
>> into play but how is a folder open to another program? Is there a way 
>> around this?
>> 
>> Marty
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at hyperhh.de  Fri Jan 25 21:25:50 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 03:25:50 +0100
Subject: Howto play live video from webcam on OSX?
Message-ID: <AFC6CAE0-CA71-44A0-8A0D-5C8A3645B99C@hyperhh.de>

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2018-December/251858.html



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sat Jan 26 00:13:38 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:13:38 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.2rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <F7F38E47-1693-49EA-8401-4CECB5CBEC5A@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB99105-C64D-417D-86EB-CB437A312A4E@iotecdigital.com>
	<70817D7A-D820-439B-B6F9-5BD656919446@gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtprQ2OXxZqJL5bnZaKwf0hhqT8N_rLqnQO5xdnoMLjgzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7F38E47-1693-49EA-8401-4CECB5CBEC5A@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqn41dzHjZ2TGz4d_AhrykMg+_uvbXRLpTL3CBh2x1mjg@mail.gmail.com>

The fold control bar uses this stack as its behavior: stack
"rev_g_groupFoldBar"

That script is:

on mouseUp
   put getID(barClickLine()) into CL
   if the number of lines of CL > 1 or word 1 of CL is not "group" then
exit mouseUp
   setFolded CL
   doUpdateDisplay true
end mouseUp

So it's pretty much down to three things:

1.a. Does barClickLine() return the proper line?
1.b. Does getID() return the right ID? And is it the long ID?
2. Does setFolded work?
3. Does doUpdateDisplay do something to reset the folds before displaying?
(This is what was wrong the last time).

One thing to try would be this:

dispatch "setFolded" to stack "revNavigator" with (the long id of <some
group navigator is displaying>),true

Navigator won't immediately update its display, but clicking in Navigator's
list or selecting Update List Now on the Action menu should do it, and then
that group should be displayed folded. I just did this and it worked for
me. If this works for you then we've narrowed the problem down to 1. If it
doesn't work, then 2 or 3.

gc

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 3:11 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Nope. Running LC 9.0.2 Community, MacOS 10.14.2, Navigator 7.2 RC1. If you
> point me to where the folding code actually happens, I can turn on rev
> development and trace it.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 25, 2019, at 14:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not seeing this? I tried both with a specific stack and (what I
> > remember from the last time) "this card of the topstack". Folding is
> > working for me, both by clicking in the margin, and by selecting a fold
> > level on the popup menu for a card or group.
> >
> > Any specific recipe?
> >
> > gc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Sat Jan 26 02:22:08 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 07:22:08 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
Message-ID: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>

Hi, all of you!
Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
Ingar

Sendt fra min iPhone

From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Sat Jan 26 05:06:55 2019
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 02:06:55 -0800
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <F58A1467-9AD1-4C63-9C62-7FED06D64210@elloco.com>

As someone who last year sold all my PPC Mac Minis that ran HyperCard, I?d suggest that you either get a version of Mac OS 9 running in a simulator, and run the real HyperCard, or switch to Livecode in all its glory.

Trying to build a limited version of Livecode, that mimics HyperCard,  seems like a lifetime of chasing bugs for a small number of users who probably want to actually build something they can run on their smart phones. 

Sure they can build great things with what HyperCard had to offer, if only they could use that one modern feature available in Livecode.

I suggest you teach them a solid subset of Livecode and let them discover everything else on their own. 

Just my thoughts.

Kee Nethery

> On Jan 25, 2019, at 11:22 PM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, all of you!
> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
> Ingar
> 
> Sendt fra min iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Sat Jan 26 06:43:21 2019
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 11:43:21 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <0FC35073-F23A-4DD8-8708-0EDDD03157A7@pidigital.co.uk>

What specific attributes of HC would you want to facilitate? Why would you want to make a cut down version of LC which is essentially HC with modern features (and cross platform)? I?m failing to see the benefits to students/users over using LC directly. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 26 Jan 2019, at 07:22, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, all of you!
> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
> Ingar
> 
> Sendt fra min iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Jan 26 06:52:16 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 13:52:16 +0200
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <1e363f82-f8d3-f209-044d-53af4155e20a@gmail.com>

I learnt a lot from HyperCard in 1993 . . . when watching my 6 month 
year old son.

However, my son is now working his way towards his 27th birthday, and 
does not need
the sort of attention from me that he needed then.

LiveCode IS, to all intents and purposes, HyperCard, in much the same 
way as my son, Alexander
is to all intents and purposes the baby he was 26 years ago. However, 
LiveCode, like my son,
has got the odd extra skill it has acquired in those 26 years.

There is NO need to "make HC great again" because Kevin Miller and his 
band of very clever people
have already done that.

What 'facilitating Hypercard by means of an LC-app' means I just don't know.

If my son gets married and fathers a child, I may have to cope with 
"HyperCard" again,
but, as I have LiveCode I will gladly hand the grandchild over to my son 
having made the
culturally appropriate "oohs and aahs".

What possible advantage could there possibly be from reviving a 
hobby-horse (progenitor of the
bicycle that had no pedals) when one can pop down the road and buy a 
bicycle with upward of 15 gears,
a sprung saddle and a decent lamp on the front?

Someone, who has not sat down and thought things through carefully comes 
up with
a "HyperCard Revived" posting about once every 2 years . . .

I got out a machine I have that runs Hypercard and felt very, very sad 
running the thing as, frankly,
after about 18 years of exposure to LiveCode (that's about 3 times as 
long as my exposure to HyperCard),
HyperCard looked pathetic; and, with the vision of hindsight it is; 
while when it was "the thang" it was revolutionary.

Richmond.

On 26.01.19 9:22, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi, all of you!
> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
> Ingar
>
> Sendt fra min iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Sat Jan 26 08:06:45 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 08:06:45 -0500
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <4eccd2dd-9543-3280-2e9f-95b9c382cccb@researchware.com>

I concur with the other replies so far.

LiveCode is HyperCard. If you want to limit yourself to only cards, 
fields, and buttons, just do so. You can do pretty much everything 
HyperCard did: create a stack of multiple cards; place buttons and 
fields on cards; draw on cards; navigate between cards; and so on. Just 
ignore all the other controls and features if you don't want them.


On 1/26/2019 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi, all of you!
> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
> Ingar
>
> Sendt fra min iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at hyperhh.de  Sat Jan 26 09:29:38 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 15:29:38 +0100
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
Message-ID: <EB3DFD84-F55C-413E-9816-FF806E057BA4@hyperhh.de>

(1) https://vipercard.net

(2) https://github.com/kreativekorp/openxion

(3) https://github.com/uliwitness/stacksmith/

See also the xtalk interviews here:
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/articles.htm

(4) Why not make a rather complete LC HTML5 standalone?
It could have an optional "retro-look" (HyperCard).

This is then written in LC Script and could use also the
full javaScript of the modern browsers.
Is already now several steps above (1).

++ Would require to add improved keyboard support to LC's
HTML5 engine.

++ Could start from (edit and set scripts):
https://hyperhh.de/html5/hhTestInStandalone-9.0.2hhX.html



From irog at mac.com  Sat Jan 26 10:01:02 2019
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 08:01:02 -0700
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <EB3DFD84-F55C-413E-9816-FF806E057BA4@hyperhh.de>
References: <EB3DFD84-F55C-413E-9816-FF806E057BA4@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <22DA6091-6D88-4414-870B-984780FF43ED@mac.com>

I?ll join this chorus as well and add that LC has become what I had hoped Hypercard would become back in the day. LC is Hypercard on steroids! If your goal is to simplify LC, then do as I believe Richmond has already done, and build a simplified (limited) tool palette in LiveCode and call it RetroLC=HC.


Roger

> On Jan 26, 2019, at 7:29 AM, hh via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> (1) https://vipercard.net
> 
> (2) https://github.com/kreativekorp/openxion
> 
> (3) https://github.com/uliwitness/stacksmith/
> 
> See also the xtalk interviews here:
> http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/articles.htm
> 
> (4) Why not make a rather complete LC HTML5 standalone?
> It could have an optional "retro-look" (HyperCard).
> 
> This is then written in LC Script and could use also the
> full javaScript of the modern browsers.
> Is already now several steps above (1).
> 
> ++ Would require to add improved keyboard support to LC's
> HTML5 engine.
> 
> ++ Could start from (edit and set scripts):
> https://hyperhh.de/html5/hhTestInStandalone-9.0.2hhX.html
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From hh at hyperhh.de  Sat Jan 26 10:14:14 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:14:14 +0100
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
Message-ID: <B0E77794-47EB-4435-A03F-763C8D127A51@hyperhh.de>

There is also

https://jamesfriend.com.au/pce-js/

that lets you have retro pc's (IBM/Atari/Mac) in the browser.
The MacPlus could be enhanced to have the full latest HyperCard
available.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Jan 26 10:42:36 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:42:36 +0200
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <22DA6091-6D88-4414-870B-984780FF43ED@mac.com>
References: <EB3DFD84-F55C-413E-9816-FF806E057BA4@hyperhh.de>
	<22DA6091-6D88-4414-870B-984780FF43ED@mac.com>
Message-ID: <146c3761-4090-ecb2-553b-fab5d8c03277@gmail.com>

Yes, I have "done", and in so doing I asked myself some pretty warped 
questions,
of which the signal one was, "What on earth am I doing this for when the 
LiveCode
IDE can be simplified sufficiently to exclude all developments post 
version 7 anyway?"

Richmond.

On 26.01.19 17:01, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
> I?ll join this chorus as well and add that LC has become what I had hoped Hypercard would become back in the day. LC is Hypercard on steroids! If your goal is to simplify LC, then do as I believe Richmond has already done, and build a simplified (limited) tool palette in LiveCode and call it RetroLC=HC.
>
>
> Roger
>
>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 7:29 AM, hh via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> (1) https://vipercard.net
>>
>> (2) https://github.com/kreativekorp/openxion
>>
>> (3) https://github.com/uliwitness/stacksmith/
>>
>> See also the xtalk interviews here:
>> http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/articles.htm
>>
>> (4) Why not make a rather complete LC HTML5 standalone?
>> It could have an optional "retro-look" (HyperCard).
>>
>> This is then written in LC Script and could use also the
>> full javaScript of the modern browsers.
>> Is already now several steps above (1).
>>
>> ++ Would require to add improved keyboard support to LC's
>> HTML5 engine.
>>
>> ++ Could start from (edit and set scripts):
>> https://hyperhh.de/html5/hhTestInStandalone-9.0.2hhX.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From dunbarx at aol.com  Sat Jan 26 13:57:53 2019
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarxx)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 12:57:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <1548529073251-0.post@n4.nabble.com>

Yet one more take.

Years ago, when I first started LC, I still mainly used HC for business and
pleasure. I still do.

I was one of those die-hard nostalgia types that accepted LC, but all the
while stubbornly stuck to, and extolled, my HC roots. Revolutionaries die
hard.

I regularly update and modify the dozen or so HC stacks, running on a
peer-to-peer network, that still form an important part of my business.

When I do that work in HC, I have to unlearn LC, and that process made me
long ago realize that I had changed to a LC revolutionary, almost without my
realizing it. The unlearning, in every respect, shows me that LC does it
better, more elegantly, more natively and, well, better.

HC is, I am embarrassed to say, embarrassing. I would never tell anyone
that, of course. This is not its fault. It is just old, and though it once
was miraculous, it is now, relatively, feeble.

Treat it like a grandfather. Love it, but do not discard your cell phone and
install a wall phone in your kitchen. You know, the one with the six foot
cord. That was a miracle too, in its day.

Craig Newman





--
Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html



From revdev at pdslabs.net  Sat Jan 26 14:30:42 2019
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 11:30:42 -0800
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <1548529073251-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<1548529073251-0.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <c488db25-5701-05b4-16c6-eaf2dfc9cd3f@pdslabs.net>

So well said! I love this.

On 1/26/19 10:57 AM, dunbarxx via use-livecode wrote:
> Treat it like a grandfather. Love it, but do not discard your cell phone and
> install a wall phone in your kitchen. You know, the one with the six foot
> cord. That was a miracle too, in its day.
>
> Craig Newman

-- 
Phil Davis




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sat Jan 26 15:32:56 2019
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 15:32:56 -0500
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>

Hi Ingar,

The only reason I can see for wanting HC again
is if you have tons and tons of old HC stacks
that you really need to be able to run without
having to do the work of turning them in to LC stacks.

If that isn?t the case for you, then I wouldn?t waste
the time.  LC is the all grown-up version of HC
as others here have stated.

Likewise the cost to do what you want to do
after a simple cost benefit analysis I believe
would show that the cost isn?t worth the
little benefit you might get back.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Rick

> On Jan 26, 2019, at 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, all of you!
> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
> Ingar
> 
> Sendt fra min iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Sat Jan 26 15:46:49 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 20:46:49 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>,
	<0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <81773FEE-5DC3-4A49-9E3D-3C6387D6B2FC@sosiologi.uio.no>

Hi Rick, 
right on target. Not tons, but a small group that are very valuable to me.
-And to all of you, thanks for sympathetic and encouraging comments!
Ingar

Sendt fra min iPhone

> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 21:33 skrev Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Ingar,
> 
> The only reason I can see for wanting HC again
> is if you have tons and tons of old HC stacks
> that you really need to be able to run without
> having to do the work of turning them in to LC stacks.
> 
> If that isn?t the case for you, then I wouldn?t waste
> the time.  LC is the all grown-up version of HC
> as others here have stated.
> 
> Likewise the cost to do what you want to do
> after a simple cost benefit analysis I believe
> would show that the cost isn?t worth the
> little benefit you might get back.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all of you!
>> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
>> Ingar
>> 
>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From paul at researchware.com  Sat Jan 26 16:29:02 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:29:02 -0500
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <81773FEE-5DC3-4A49-9E3D-3C6387D6B2FC@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>
	<81773FEE-5DC3-4A49-9E3D-3C6387D6B2FC@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <ae45e900-c93b-787a-973e-cc1b1dd2d2f2@researchware.com>

What about those small but important HC stacks causes them not to run in 
LiveCode? What errors do you get?

On 1/26/2019 3:46 PM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Rick,
> right on target. Not tons, but a small group that are very valuable to me.
> -And to all of you, thanks for sympathetic and encouraging comments!
> Ingar
>
> Sendt fra min iPhone
>
>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 21:33 skrev Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Hi Ingar,
>>
>> The only reason I can see for wanting HC again
>> is if you have tons and tons of old HC stacks
>> that you really need to be able to run without
>> having to do the work of turning them in to LC stacks.
>>
>> If that isn?t the case for you, then I wouldn?t waste
>> the time.  LC is the all grown-up version of HC
>> as others here have stated.
>>
>> Likewise the cost to do what you want to do
>> after a simple cost benefit analysis I believe
>> would show that the cost isn?t worth the
>> little benefit you might get back.
>>
>> Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, all of you!
>>> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
>>> Ingar
>>>
>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Sat Jan 26 16:33:42 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 21:33:42 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <ae45e900-c93b-787a-973e-cc1b1dd2d2f2@researchware.com>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>
	<81773FEE-5DC3-4A49-9E3D-3C6387D6B2FC@sosiologi.uio.no>,
	<ae45e900-c93b-787a-973e-cc1b1dd2d2f2@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <FF3914B6-B7A8-4920-844B-75666DA9F115@sosiologi.uio.no>

OK, it seems that I must give it a try. What LC-version should I use?

Sendt fra min iPhone

> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 22:29 skrev Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> What about those small but important HC stacks causes them not to run in LiveCode? What errors do you get?
> 
>> On 1/26/2019 3:46 PM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Rick,
>> right on target. Not tons, but a small group that are very valuable to me.
>> -And to all of you, thanks for sympathetic and encouraging comments!
>> Ingar
>> 
>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>> 
>>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 21:33 skrev Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Ingar,
>>> 
>>> The only reason I can see for wanting HC again
>>> is if you have tons and tons of old HC stacks
>>> that you really need to be able to run without
>>> having to do the work of turning them in to LC stacks.
>>> 
>>> If that isn?t the case for you, then I wouldn?t waste
>>> the time.  LC is the all grown-up version of HC
>>> as others here have stated.
>>> 
>>> Likewise the cost to do what you want to do
>>> after a simple cost benefit analysis I believe
>>> would show that the cost isn?t worth the
>>> little benefit you might get back.
>>> 
>>> Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi, all of you!
>>>> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
>>>> Ingar
>>>> 
>>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sat Jan 26 16:33:12 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 13:33:12 -0800
Subject: Never, ever use the name of a built-in property as a custom property
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>

https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/27

I just found that Navigator breaks when editing the custom properties of
datagrids, because of the custom property dgProps["style"]. When I
originally added custom properties to the property editor in Navigator it
was simple: I pretty much had to add one line here and there, and I was
done. Namely:

      if the cCustomProperties of me is true
      then set the customPropertySet of tID to (the cCustomPropertySet of
me)

And then set the properties as usual. So easy. But setting the property
breaks if the custom property is "style", with the error that the object
doesn't have that property.

So now I'm spending time going through Navigator and replacing the above
with code like this:

         put value(merge("the [[pCustomPropertySet]][
[[quote]][[P]][[quote]]] of [[pID]]")) into pIDP

(if anyone has a cleaner solution, I'd love to hear it)

So: use unique names for your custom properties. Prefix them all with a "u"
as some people do, for example.

Or don't. Navigator's next update will accommodate you anyway.

</rant>


From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Sat Jan 26 16:46:47 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 21:46:47 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <FF3914B6-B7A8-4920-844B-75666DA9F115@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>
	<81773FEE-5DC3-4A49-9E3D-3C6387D6B2FC@sosiologi.uio.no>,
	<ae45e900-c93b-787a-973e-cc1b1dd2d2f2@researchware.com>,
	<FF3914B6-B7A8-4920-844B-75666DA9F115@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <D1BCDFA7-C9B0-4CC4-A19B-618E05A17EE9@sosiologi.uio.no>

Under your friendly pressure I have decided to try LC on one of those stacks, which I call ?Personal Risk Detector?, PRD. If you are willing to take a look at 

Sendt fra min iPhone

> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 22:34 skrev Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> OK, it seems that I must give it a try. What LC-version should I use?
> 
> Sendt fra min iPhone
> 
>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 22:29 skrev Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> What about those small but important HC stacks causes them not to run in LiveCode? What errors do you get?
>> 
>>> On 1/26/2019 3:46 PM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi Rick,
>>> right on target. Not tons, but a small group that are very valuable to me.
>>> -And to all of you, thanks for sympathetic and encouraging comments!
>>> Ingar
>>> 
>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>> 
>>>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 21:33 skrev Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Ingar,
>>>> 
>>>> The only reason I can see for wanting HC again
>>>> is if you have tons and tons of old HC stacks
>>>> that you really need to be able to run without
>>>> having to do the work of turning them in to LC stacks.
>>>> 
>>>> If that isn?t the case for you, then I wouldn?t waste
>>>> the time.  LC is the all grown-up version of HC
>>>> as others here have stated.
>>>> 
>>>> Likewise the cost to do what you want to do
>>>> after a simple cost benefit analysis I believe
>>>> would show that the cost isn?t worth the
>>>> little benefit you might get back.
>>>> 
>>>> Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
>>>> 
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, all of you!
>>>>> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
>>>>> Ingar
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Sat Jan 26 16:55:55 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 21:55:55 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <D1BCDFA7-C9B0-4CC4-A19B-618E05A17EE9@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>
	<81773FEE-5DC3-4A49-9E3D-3C6387D6B2FC@sosiologi.uio.no>,
	<ae45e900-c93b-787a-973e-cc1b1dd2d2f2@researchware.com>,
	<FF3914B6-B7A8-4920-844B-75666DA9F115@sosiologi.uio.no>,
	<D1BCDFA7-C9B0-4CC4-A19B-618E05A17EE9@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <CD413B1A-9AB1-4371-BBC2-DA707F34E5B6@sosiologi.uio.no>

at it. I?ll publish a brief description of the project in case anybody should have a comment. 
Ingar

Sendt fra min iPhone

> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 22:46 skrev Ingar Roggen <ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no>:
> 
> Under your friendly pressure I have decided to try LC on one of those stacks,   I call ?Personal Risk Detector?, PRD. If you are willing to take a look at 
> 
> Sendt fra min iPhone
> 
>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 22:34 skrev Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> OK, it seems that I must give it a try. What LC-version should I use?
>> 
>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>> 
>>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 22:29 skrev Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> What about those small but important HC stacks causes them not to run in LiveCode? What errors do you get?
>>> 
>>>> On 1/26/2019 3:46 PM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi Rick,
>>>> right on target. Not tons, but a small group that are very valuable to me.
>>>> -And to all of you, thanks for sympathetic and encouraging comments!
>>>> Ingar
>>>> 
>>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 21:33 skrev Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ingar,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The only reason I can see for wanting HC again
>>>>> is if you have tons and tons of old HC stacks
>>>>> that you really need to be able to run without
>>>>> having to do the work of turning them in to LC stacks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If that isn?t the case for you, then I wouldn?t waste
>>>>> the time.  LC is the all grown-up version of HC
>>>>> as others here have stated.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Likewise the cost to do what you want to do
>>>>> after a simple cost benefit analysis I believe
>>>>> would show that the cost isn?t worth the
>>>>> little benefit you might get back.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rick
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi, all of you!
>>>>>> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
>>>>>> Ingar
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Jan 26 17:20:30 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:20:30 -0600
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <FF3914B6-B7A8-4920-844B-75666DA9F115@sosiologi.uio.no>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>
	<81773FEE-5DC3-4A49-9E3D-3C6387D6B2FC@sosiologi.uio.no>,
	<ae45e900-c93b-787a-973e-cc1b1dd2d2f2@researchware.com>
	<FF3914B6-B7A8-4920-844B-75666DA9F115@sosiologi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <1688c3ff7c8.2783.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

HC import has been broken since the LC 7 rewrite but it still works in LC 
version 6.x. So you need to open the HC stack in LC 6, save it, and then 
open it in LC 9.

You may get some errors that are easy to fix. The most common errors are 
unquoted literals and using reserved words as variable names.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 26, 2019 3:35:31 PM Ingar Roggen via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> OK, it seems that I must give it a try. What LC-version should I use?
>
> Sendt fra min iPhone
>
>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 22:29 skrev Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> What about those small but important HC stacks causes them not to run in 
>> LiveCode? What errors do you get?
>>
>>> On 1/26/2019 3:46 PM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi Rick,
>>> right on target. Not tons, but a small group that are very valuable to me.
>>> -And to all of you, thanks for sympathetic and encouraging comments!
>>> Ingar
>>>
>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>>
>>>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 21:33 skrev Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ingar,
>>>>
>>>> The only reason I can see for wanting HC again
>>>> is if you have tons and tons of old HC stacks
>>>> that you really need to be able to run without
>>>> having to do the work of turning them in to LC stacks.
>>>>
>>>> If that isn?t the case for you, then I wouldn?t waste
>>>> the time.  LC is the all grown-up version of HC
>>>> as others here have stated.
>>>>
>>>> Likewise the cost to do what you want to do
>>>> after a simple cost benefit analysis I believe
>>>> would show that the cost isn?t worth the
>>>> little benefit you might get back.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, all of you!
>>>>> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much 
>>>>> it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by 
>>>>> means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but 
>>>>> again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the 
>>>>> price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. 
>>>>> Why not give it a try?
>>>>> Ingar
>>>>>
>>>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Sat Jan 26 17:22:29 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:22:29 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <1688c3ff7c8.2783.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <8EC8EA2D-E9FE-47FA-ACF3-14CE4635F4F0@sosiologi.uio.no>
	<0BFDC748-0ED5-4D8D-A232-4A43E7289832@all-auctions.com>
	<81773FEE-5DC3-4A49-9E3D-3C6387D6B2FC@sosiologi.uio.no>,
	<ae45e900-c93b-787a-973e-cc1b1dd2d2f2@researchware.com>
	<FF3914B6-B7A8-4920-844B-75666DA9F115@sosiologi.uio.no>,
	<1688c3ff7c8.2783.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <74DA340F-7071-4A90-8890-6D40923B244B@sosiologi.uio.no>

OK

Sendt fra min iPhone

> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 23:20 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> HC import has been broken since the LC 7 rewrite but it still works in LC version 6.x. So you need to open the HC stack in LC 6, save it, and then open it in LC 9.
> 
> You may get some errors that are easy to fix. The most common errors are unquoted literals and using reserved words as variable names.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On January 26, 2019 3:35:31 PM Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> OK, it seems that I must give it a try. What LC-version should I use?
>> 
>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>> 
>>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 22:29 skrev Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> What about those small but important HC stacks causes them not to run in LiveCode? What errors do you get?
>>> 
>>>> On 1/26/2019 3:46 PM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi Rick,
>>>> right on target. Not tons, but a small group that are very valuable to me.
>>>> -And to all of you, thanks for sympathetic and encouraging comments!
>>>> Ingar
>>>> 
>>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> 26. jan. 2019 kl. 21:33 skrev Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ingar,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The only reason I can see for wanting HC again
>>>>> is if you have tons and tons of old HC stacks
>>>>> that you really need to be able to run without
>>>>> having to do the work of turning them in to LC stacks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If that isn?t the case for you, then I wouldn?t waste
>>>>> the time.  LC is the all grown-up version of HC
>>>>> as others here have stated.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Likewise the cost to do what you want to do
>>>>> after a simple cost benefit analysis I believe
>>>>> would show that the cost isn?t worth the
>>>>> little benefit you might get back.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rick
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 2:22 AM, Ingar Roggen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi, all of you!
>>>>>> Twice I have asked through this list for help to get an idea about how much it would cost ?to make HC great again?, that is, to facilitate its use by means of an LC-app. I may not succeed in getting a Norwegian sponsor, but again I might. But certainly not without an approximate suggestion of the price. My email at the University of Oslo is ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no. Why not give it a try?
>>>>>> Ingar
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sendt fra min iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From hh at hyperhh.de  Sat Jan 26 21:08:31 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 03:08:31 +0100
Subject: IndyCam2_v100
Message-ID: <7DB98887-A677-4BB5-BA07-CD5D356E5229@hyperhh.de>

*** The stack does NOT run with LC Community ***
(Because it uses the cameraControl that is available in the
Indy or Business versions of LC only.)

Download IndyCam2 from "Sample stacks" or
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/927/

You can take snapshots with up to two (intern oder extern)
cameras, may be also simple webcams.
Each snapshot has at about 240 KByte.

The snapshots can be filtered (directly in the stack) with
one of the image effects from LCImageToolBox_89.

There is also a timer for using this as timelapseCamera,
shooting in intervals of 1 to 36600 seconds. While such a
timelapse is running you can change the camera, the image
filter and the interval.

There is help in the stack.



From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 04:31:07 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 01:31:07 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.2rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtqn41dzHjZ2TGz4d_AhrykMg+_uvbXRLpTL3CBh2x1mjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtqiYdfogR3k4aqfRrGtu3EK105sEmPXVOiiMycJEiWpfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB99105-C64D-417D-86EB-CB437A312A4E@iotecdigital.com>
	<70817D7A-D820-439B-B6F9-5BD656919446@gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtprQ2OXxZqJL5bnZaKwf0hhqT8N_rLqnQO5xdnoMLjgzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7F38E47-1693-49EA-8401-4CECB5CBEC5A@iotecdigital.com>
	<CAKCLKtqn41dzHjZ2TGz4d_AhrykMg+_uvbXRLpTL3CBh2x1mjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrpRLvag=DRxrLHuKfZOkhCBnOTXyL2oFjQp+RkpXcd_Q@mail.gmail.com>

7.2.1rc1 is available

There is now a checkbox in the prefs to fold dataGrids by default. Also, I
fixed the custom property editor to work even if custom properties have the
same name as built-in properties, updated the display of folded controls,
and updated Navigator's property editor to do a soft display update when
setting values, so changing the name of controls will be reflected when the
editor is closed.

Fixes:
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/27
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/26
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/24

Updates:
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/19

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 9:13 PM Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> The fold control bar uses this stack as its behavior: stack
> "rev_g_groupFoldBar"
>
> That script is:
>
> on mouseUp
>    put getID(barClickLine()) into CL
>    if the number of lines of CL > 1 or word 1 of CL is not "group" then
> exit mouseUp
>    setFolded CL
>    doUpdateDisplay true
> end mouseUp
>
> So it's pretty much down to three things:
>
> 1.a. Does barClickLine() return the proper line?
> 1.b. Does getID() return the right ID? And is it the long ID?
> 2. Does setFolded work?
> 3. Does doUpdateDisplay do something to reset the folds before displaying?
> (This is what was wrong the last time).
>
> One thing to try would be this:
>
> dispatch "setFolded" to stack "revNavigator" with (the long id of <some
> group navigator is displaying>),true
>
> Navigator won't immediately update its display, but clicking in
> Navigator's list or selecting Update List Now on the Action menu should do
> it, and then that group should be displayed folded. I just did this and it
> worked for me. If this works for you then we've narrowed the problem down
> to 1. If it doesn't work, then 2 or 3.
>
> gc
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 3:11 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Nope. Running LC 9.0.2 Community, MacOS 10.14.2, Navigator 7.2 RC1. If
>> you point me to where the folding code actually happens, I can turn on rev
>> development and trace it.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 25, 2019, at 14:16 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm not seeing this? I tried both with a specific stack and (what I
>> > remember from the last time) "this card of the topstack". Folding is
>> > working for me, both by clicking in the margin, and by selecting a fold
>> > level on the popup menu for a card or group.
>> >
>> > Any specific recipe?
>> >
>> > gc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 05:37:16 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:37:16 +0000
Subject: Never,
	ever use the name of a built-in property as a custom property
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMLHB0-jGs4F2+zuhH0_ULXB5_Kf=OOVKfYfoH6ktSRUQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Geoff, for me the solution is to have a naming convention for all of a
developers / projects work - so everything is prefixed by 4 letters, and
then in the case of custom properties / custom property sets - to migrate
off them and just stick to arrays. The custom property / set syntax was
always confusing, and since we've had arrays there is as far as I can tell
no advantage in using them over simply storing the data you want as an
array in a custom property.

I guess you could combine the two approaches and use a top-level set? But
for me the simplicity of cutting down on that level of architecture and
just using well named custom properties with arrays stored in them has the
advantage that you can refer to them directly in script without any library
to make the job easier?


On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 21:34, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/27
>
> I just found that Navigator breaks when editing the custom properties of
> datagrids, because of the custom property dgProps["style"]. When I
> originally added custom properties to the property editor in Navigator it
> was simple: I pretty much had to add one line here and there, and I was
> done. Namely:
>
>       if the cCustomProperties of me is true
>       then set the customPropertySet of tID to (the cCustomPropertySet of
> me)
>
> And then set the properties as usual. So easy. But setting the property
> breaks if the custom property is "style", with the error that the object
> doesn't have that property.
>
> So now I'm spending time going through Navigator and replacing the above
> with code like this:
>
>          put value(merge("the [[pCustomPropertySet]][
> [[quote]][[P]][[quote]]] of [[pID]]")) into pIDP
>
> (if anyone has a cleaner solution, I'd love to hear it)
>
> So: use unique names for your custom properties. Prefix them all with a "u"
> as some people do, for example.
>
> Or don't. Navigator's next update will accommodate you anyway.
>
> </rant>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 08:33:41 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:33:41 +0000
Subject: Trying to get Camera Control. Community Plus License
In-Reply-To: <AFC6CAE0-CA71-44A0-8A0D-5C8A3645B99C@hyperhh.de>
References: <AFC6CAE0-CA71-44A0-8A0D-5C8A3645B99C@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMwzo+rwx1iBrRuH_ELp2GMOhU=6LAVD2eiXFmcnETn3A@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure did i get the wrong license?

>From the Livecode web site:

Just like LiveCode Community this is an open source edition of LIveCode and
> carries with it the same requirement for making your code open and
> shareable. Where it differs from the Open Source edition is in all of the
> extra goodies it comes with. *You can access all the commercial
> extensions in the LiveCode store*, learn the language faster with
> autocomplete inside the script editor


But no Camera Control. In fact I can't find any way to see what extensions
are available or bundled with the various platforms - so how does it work?


From hh at hyperhh.de  Sun Jan 27 10:02:30 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 16:02:30 +0100
Subject: Trying to get Camera Control. Community Plus License
Message-ID: <EEC89BD4-AB52-4EF3-9A61-CEEF1C03F828@hyperhh.de>

Find some info here:
https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/

From the 9.0.2-dict entry to cameraControlCreate:
Edition: Indy
OS: mac, windows, ios, android

So, the Community plus edition is not the Indy edition.

I will soon publish a *timelapseCamera* stack that runs on
Mac/Win/linux with LC 6/7/8/9 and Raspi (LC 651/704)
for ALL editions of LC.


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 12:00:33 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:00:33 -0800
Subject: Never,
	ever use the name of a built-in property as a custom property
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioMLHB0-jGs4F2+zuhH0_ULXB5_Kf=OOVKfYfoH6ktSRUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioMLHB0-jGs4F2+zuhH0_ULXB5_Kf=OOVKfYfoH6ktSRUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtq9di1DYBMG_5j8JszjOh8QTLoAY8BwvR0TtP6nqc-ojg@mail.gmail.com>

Sure, I'm not arguing for custom property sets -- just saying that if you
*are* going to use them, don't bork the naming convention.


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 12:21:12 2019
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:21:12 +0200
Subject: Trying to get Camera Control. Community Plus License
In-Reply-To: <EEC89BD4-AB52-4EF3-9A61-CEEF1C03F828@hyperhh.de>
References: <EEC89BD4-AB52-4EF3-9A61-CEEF1C03F828@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <4b657e0c-d47e-256a-3e21-25f344ada15a@gmail.com>

I've just been fiddling around with the "Video Capture.rev" stack
from LC 4.5 with no joy in LC 8.1.10.

Richmond.

On 27.01.19 17:02, hh via use-livecode wrote:
> Find some info here:
> https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/
>
>  From the 9.0.2-dict entry to cameraControlCreate:
> Edition: Indy
> OS: mac, windows, ios, android
>
> So, the Community plus edition is not the Indy edition.
>
> I will soon publish a *timelapseCamera* stack that runs on
> Mac/Win/linux with LC 6/7/8/9 and Raspi (LC 651/704)
> for ALL editions of LC.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Jan 27 16:27:07 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 15:27:07 -0600
Subject: Windows 64-bit builds
Message-ID: <d2751fff-2144-8b49-8230-ab6230a010d5@hyperactivesw.com>

Standalone settings shows the Windows 64-bit option as "experimental." 
How experimental is it, and has anyone had any issues?

A little story: I was just contacted by a client I did some work for 15 
years ago. She's been running the same app all this time, but a while 
back she lost the ability to run it on her OS X Mac at home (the app was 
built for OS 9) so she wants it updated for OS X. The ancient Windows 
app still runs on her Windows 10 box at work.

Since I'm going to rebuild it for OS X, we're going to update the 
Windows version as well. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and use 
64-bit for that to ensure the app will still work 15 years into the future.

It's astounding to me that a LiveCode app built with MC 2.7 is still 
viable in today's software environment. You have to applaud the team's 
incredible dedication to backward compatibility.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Sun Jan 27 16:44:28 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 22:44:28 +0100
Subject: Windows 64-bit builds
In-Reply-To: <d2751fff-2144-8b49-8230-ab6230a010d5@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <d2751fff-2144-8b49-8230-ab6230a010d5@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A16103F7-0E87-4275-A2B5-115299429A79@m-r-d.de>

Am very interested in 64bit Windows standalones, but cannot see that option in Standalone Settings in my LC 9.0.2 on Mac OS X.
In what LC version do you see that option?

Btw, when the Mac OS X 64-bit option was still experimental i used it a lot and did not run into any problem with my apps.


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 27.01.2019 um 22:27 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Standalone settings shows the Windows 64-bit option as "experimental." How experimental is it, and has anyone had any issues?
> 
> A little story: I was just contacted by a client I did some work for 15 years ago. She's been running the same app all this time, but a while back she lost the ability to run it on her OS X Mac at home (the app was built for OS 9) so she wants it updated for OS X. The ancient Windows app still runs on her Windows 10 box at work.
> 
> Since I'm going to rebuild it for OS X, we're going to update the Windows version as well. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and use 64-bit for that to ensure the app will still work 15 years into the future.
> 
> It's astounding to me that a LiveCode app built with MC 2.7 is still viable in today's software environment. You have to applaud the team's incredible dedication to backward compatibility.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From hh at hyperhh.de  Sun Jan 27 17:09:02 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:09:02 +0100
Subject: IndyCam2_v100
Message-ID: <B2C643D6-04CB-41D7-89DA-DC92FB1D2827@hyperhh.de>

This is now updated to v102 that removes a display bug on Windows
where I could not make two cams visible at the same time. So, if
you have two cameras attached then you see on MacOS the display
of both and on Windows10 only the selected one.

Tested to work on MacOS 10.14 and Windows 10 with LC 9.0.2 Indy.

> hh wrote:
> *** The stack does NOT run with LC Community ***
> (Because it uses the cameraControl that is available in
> the Indy or Business versions of LC only.)
> 
> Download IndyCam2 from "Sample stacks" or
> http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/927/
> 
> You can take snapshots with up to two (intern oder extern)
> cameras, may be also simple webcams.
> Each snapshot has at about 240 KByte.
> 
> The snapshots can be filtered (directly in the stack) with
> one of the image effects from LCImageToolBox_89.
> 
> There is also a timer for using this as timelapseCamera,
> shooting in intervals of 1 to 36600 seconds. While such a
> timelapse is running you can change the camera, the image
> filter and the interval.
> 
> There is help in the stack.




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 18:10:30 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:10:30 +0000
Subject: Never,
	ever use the name of a built-in property as a custom property
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtq9di1DYBMG_5j8JszjOh8QTLoAY8BwvR0TtP6nqc-ojg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioMLHB0-jGs4F2+zuhH0_ULXB5_Kf=OOVKfYfoH6ktSRUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtq9di1DYBMG_5j8JszjOh8QTLoAY8BwvR0TtP6nqc-ojg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioP2-rGYVSUKDcfDL7-FVmAS0hFzra3haGcPyMuxuNEaNA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes. I'm scared as well about naming things :) I'm not sure what is safe.
Thee is a tension between making your code readable, and worrying that your
use of a natural language term will clash with some evolution of the
language that may later get added as a native feature. Is nothing safe?

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 17:01, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Sure, I'm not arguing for custom property sets -- just saying that if you
> *are* going to use them, don't bork the naming convention.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 18:20:11 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:20:11 +0000
Subject: IndyCam2_v100
In-Reply-To: <B2C643D6-04CB-41D7-89DA-DC92FB1D2827@hyperhh.de>
References: <B2C643D6-04CB-41D7-89DA-DC92FB1D2827@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CAGASioPCFSw8aY_-E6OTWtsHUGL0eBKj3NvwJn1XX71zRJkwtA@mail.gmail.com>

Would be great to have a better description so I can see what it looks
like, and what it does? For instance i don't need or want snapshot
functionality - and I'm scared to fork out $500 for Indy - blind as i've no
real idea what is in there.

After all i just spend $80 or thereabouts on Community Plus because the
description made me think I'd have some sort of access to the commercial
plugins - only to find that is not the case. Surely this is a bad idea -
shouldn't we get some time to see if we want to buy?

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 22:09, hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This is now updated to v102 that removes a display bug on Windows
> where I could not make two cams visible at the same time. So, if
> you have two cameras attached then you see on MacOS the display
> of both and on Windows10 only the selected one.
>
> Tested to work on MacOS 10.14 and Windows 10 with LC 9.0.2 Indy.
>
> > hh wrote:
> > *** The stack does NOT run with LC Community ***
> > (Because it uses the cameraControl that is available in
> > the Indy or Business versions of LC only.)
> >
> > Download IndyCam2 from "Sample stacks" or
> > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/927/
> >
> > You can take snapshots with up to two (intern oder extern)
> > cameras, may be also simple webcams.
> > Each snapshot has at about 240 KByte.
> >
> > The snapshots can be filtered (directly in the stack) with
> > one of the image effects from LCImageToolBox_89.
> >
> > There is also a timer for using this as timelapseCamera,
> > shooting in intervals of 1 to 36600 seconds. While such a
> > timelapse is running you can change the camera, the image
> > filter and the interval.
> >
> > There is help in the stack.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From hh at hyperhh.de  Sun Jan 27 19:06:58 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 01:06:58 +0100
Subject: IndyCam2_v100
Message-ID: <BE9A6955-BDF9-4C92-8F47-FFCDD6F730B7@hyperhh.de>

I don't know exactly the differences between the editions.
But did you already try https://livecode.com/trial/ ?



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Jan 27 19:47:33 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:47:33 -0600
Subject: Windows 64-bit builds
In-Reply-To: <A16103F7-0E87-4275-A2B5-115299429A79@m-r-d.de>
References: <d2751fff-2144-8b49-8230-ab6230a010d5@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A16103F7-0E87-4275-A2B5-115299429A79@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <2c0a5082-71dc-5bc6-76a6-fd2d5235b2e1@hyperactivesw.com>

Oops, I had a brain freeze. I don't see the option in Windows either, 
it's in the Mac settings in LC 8.1. Now that you've drawn my attention 
to it, I see it's reversed in LC 9.0.2 which says that 32-bit is 
deprecated. So, no problem.

Thanks for the correction. I need more sleep.

On 1/27/19 3:44 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Am very interested in 64bit Windows standalones, but cannot see that option in Standalone Settings in my LC 9.0.2 on Mac OS X.
> In what LC version do you see that option?
> 
> Btw, when the Mac OS X 64-bit option was still experimental i used it a lot and did not run into any problem with my apps.
> 
> 
> Matthias Rebbe
> 
> free tools for Livecoders:
> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
> 
>> Am 27.01.2019 um 22:27 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>
>> Standalone settings shows the Windows 64-bit option as "experimental." How experimental is it, and has anyone had any issues?
>>
>> A little story: I was just contacted by a client I did some work for 15 years ago. She's been running the same app all this time, but a while back she lost the ability to run it on her OS X Mac at home (the app was built for OS 9) so she wants it updated for OS X. The ancient Windows app still runs on her Windows 10 box at work.
>>
>> Since I'm going to rebuild it for OS X, we're going to update the Windows version as well. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and use 64-bit for that to ensure the app will still work 15 years into the future.
>>
>> It's astounding to me that a LiveCode app built with MC 2.7 is still viable in today's software environment. You have to applaud the team's incredible dedication to backward compatibility.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Jan 28 06:11:49 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:11:49 +0100
Subject: Windows 64-bit builds
In-Reply-To: <2c0a5082-71dc-5bc6-76a6-fd2d5235b2e1@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <d2751fff-2144-8b49-8230-ab6230a010d5@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A16103F7-0E87-4275-A2B5-115299429A79@m-r-d.de>
	<2c0a5082-71dc-5bc6-76a6-fd2d5235b2e1@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <DD3CE1D1-1C09-4C87-A3D9-5357EB3AEF48@m-r-d.de>

Oh, what a pity. I really have hoped that i missed an announcement.

So we still have to wait for Win 64-bit.

Matthias


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 28.01.2019 um 01:47 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Oops, I had a brain freeze. I don't see the option in Windows either, it's in the Mac settings in LC 8.1. Now that you've drawn my attention to it, I see it's reversed in LC 9.0.2 which says that 32-bit is deprecated. So, no problem.
> 
> Thanks for the correction. I need more sleep.
> 
> On 1/27/19 3:44 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Am very interested in 64bit Windows standalones, but cannot see that option in Standalone Settings in my LC 9.0.2 on Mac OS X.
>> In what LC version do you see that option?
>> Btw, when the Mac OS X 64-bit option was still experimental i used it a lot and did not run into any problem with my apps.
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> free tools for Livecoders:
>> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/> <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/ <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>>
>> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/> <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/ <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>>
>>> Am 27.01.2019 um 22:27 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>>:
>>> 
>>> Standalone settings shows the Windows 64-bit option as "experimental." How experimental is it, and has anyone had any issues?
>>> 
>>> A little story: I was just contacted by a client I did some work for 15 years ago. She's been running the same app all this time, but a while back she lost the ability to run it on her OS X Mac at home (the app was built for OS 9) so she wants it updated for OS X. The ancient Windows app still runs on her Windows 10 box at work.
>>> 
>>> Since I'm going to rebuild it for OS X, we're going to update the Windows version as well. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and use 64-bit for that to ensure the app will still work 15 years into the future.
>>> 
>>> It's astounding to me that a LiveCode app built with MC 2.7 is still viable in today's software environment. You have to applaud the team's incredible dedication to backward compatibility.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com> <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>>
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/ <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>>
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From andrewferguson500 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 08:55:31 2019
From: andrewferguson500 at gmail.com (Andrew Ferguson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:55:31 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <B0E77794-47EB-4435-A03F-763C8D127A51@hyperhh.de>
References: <B0E77794-47EB-4435-A03F-763C8D127A51@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <29dfc24a-6680-25b0-b5f9-ab9108eb4ccf@gmail.com>

If you want to satisfy your HyperCard cravings, there's also the 
HyperCard Online Project at https://archive.org/details/hypercardstacks 
(disclaimer: I proposed and maintain the project), a collection of 
nearly 3,500 stacks all ready to be run in a web browser. The technology 
is derived from James Friend's work on the PCEjs emulator, but in a way 
that interfaces well with archive.org's other systems. Just recently the 
MerryXmas virus was added to the collection (I don't know why you would 
*want* this, but it's there...).

Oh, and I built an uploader at http://hypercardonline.tk/ that takes 
stacks and adds them to the collection, in case anyone still has stacks 
sitting around on their computers and is happy for them to be added to 
the collection.

On 26/01/2019 15:14, hh via use-livecode wrote:
> There is also
>
> https://jamesfriend.com.au/pce-js/
>
> that lets you have retro pc's (IBM/Atari/Mac) in the browser.
> The MacPlus could be enhanced to have the full latest HyperCard
> available.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no  Mon Jan 28 09:41:12 2019
From: ingar.roggen at sosiologi.uio.no (Ingar Roggen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 14:41:12 +0000
Subject: Should I forget HC? Honestly?
In-Reply-To: <29dfc24a-6680-25b0-b5f9-ab9108eb4ccf@gmail.com>
References: <B0E77794-47EB-4435-A03F-763C8D127A51@hyperhh.de>,
	<29dfc24a-6680-25b0-b5f9-ab9108eb4ccf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002DE7AC-314C-499B-B188-5C5696F352FA@sosiologi.uio.no>

Thank you, Andrew, I?ll take a look at that!
Ingar

Sendt fra min iPhone

> 28. jan. 2019 kl. 14:56 skrev Andrew Ferguson via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> If you want to satisfy your HyperCard cravings, there's also the HyperCard Online Project at https://archive.org/details/hypercardstacks (disclaimer: I proposed and maintain the project), a collection of nearly 3,500 stacks all ready to be run in a web browser. The technology is derived from James Friend's work on the PCEjs emulator, but in a way that interfaces well with archive.org's other systems. Just recently the MerryXmas virus was added to the collection (I don't know why you would *want* this, but it's there...).
> 
> Oh, and I built an uploader at http://hypercardonline.tk/ that takes stacks and adds them to the collection, in case anyone still has stacks sitting around on their computers and is happy for them to be added to the collection.
> 
>> On 26/01/2019 15:14, hh via use-livecode wrote:
>> There is also
>> 
>> https://jamesfriend.com.au/pce-js/
>> 
>> that lets you have retro pc's (IBM/Atari/Mac) in the browser.
>> The MacPlus could be enhanced to have the full latest HyperCard
>> available.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon Jan 28 09:57:51 2019
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:57:51 +0200
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 165
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9=q+5WLBFr8EtHZ8eFRs-edCXYnmqnKnhpGC+z6eUC_w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #165 here: https://goo.gl/rysnDV

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From RayHorsley at mail.com  Mon Jan 28 11:52:31 2019
From: RayHorsley at mail.com (Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:52:31 -0400
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
References: <61DF48AD-A3D8-47EC-8882-4CA3B8E5DCF2@bobhall.net>
Message-ID: <df83fbea-34c2-f8a0-72d4-584289c05e91@mail.com>

For some time now I've noticed a substantial slowdown in the script
editor every time I upgrade to 8.X or 9.X.? I've usually end up going
back to my favorite version, 7.1.4, with its high performance script
editor.? Which version of LC are you using?



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 28 11:02:22 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:02:22 +0000
Subject: Never,	ever use the name of a built-in property as a custom
	property
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioP2-rGYVSUKDcfDL7-FVmAS0hFzra3haGcPyMuxuNEaNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioMLHB0-jGs4F2+zuhH0_ULXB5_Kf=OOVKfYfoH6ktSRUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtq9di1DYBMG_5j8JszjOh8QTLoAY8BwvR0TtP6nqc-ojg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioP2-rGYVSUKDcfDL7-FVmAS0hFzra3haGcPyMuxuNEaNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D255019-08B9-40EA-BA5A-6546092B42C9@iotecdigital.com>

This was addressed in my first Revolution conference. One of the classes was about naming conventions. Not only do you have to be careful about your names clashing with built-in names, but also reserved words, and the names used by OTHER developers (think plugins). 

Other languages partially address this by using variable scoping, but you still cannot use reserved words, like names of built in functions. Neither the SE or C/Java compiler would allow it, but properties are not variables per-se. 

The upshot of the class was that if you are producing something with public distribution in mind, preface ALL your variables and named objects in a way unique to you, so there can be no conflict. 

Bob S


> On Jan 27, 2019, at 15:10 , David Bovill via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes. I'm scared as well about naming things :) I'm not sure what is safe.
> Thee is a tension between making your code readable, and worrying that your
> use of a natural language term will clash with some evolution of the
> language that may later get added as a native feature. Is nothing safe?




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 28 11:11:14 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:11:14 +0000
Subject: Never,	ever use the name of a built-in property as a custom
	property
In-Reply-To: <0D255019-08B9-40EA-BA5A-6546092B42C9@iotecdigital.com>
References: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioMLHB0-jGs4F2+zuhH0_ULXB5_Kf=OOVKfYfoH6ktSRUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKCLKtq9di1DYBMG_5j8JszjOh8QTLoAY8BwvR0TtP6nqc-ojg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGASioP2-rGYVSUKDcfDL7-FVmAS0hFzra3haGcPyMuxuNEaNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0D255019-08B9-40EA-BA5A-6546092B42C9@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <25D00FD7-4433-4EFE-A5CF-562BB050D0D1@iotecdigital.com>

I mean to say the first (and only I am sorry to say) Revolution conference I attended. That sounded like I put on a conference myself. :-)

Bob S


> On Jan 28, 2019, at 08:02 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> This was addressed in my first Revolution conference.




From jmac at consensustech.com  Mon Jan 28 12:01:43 2019
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:01:43 -0800
Subject: Trying to get Camera Control. Community Plus License
In-Reply-To: <4b657e0c-d47e-256a-3e21-25f344ada15a@gmail.com>
References: <EEC89BD4-AB52-4EF3-9A61-CEEF1C03F828@hyperhh.de>
	<4b657e0c-d47e-256a-3e21-25f344ada15a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <018601d4b72b$253edae0$6fbc90a0$@consensustech.com>

I feel your pain.....

Discontinuing the Video Grabber library in 8.1, effectively killed a number
of projects I was working on that used webcams and digital microscopes in a
manufacturing environment. Telling people they can't use the current version
of Livecode to maintain old projects is a non-starter. Using the Community
edition was an essential part of those projects (developing in house
industrial applications using a "proprietary coding environment" is frowned
upon where I work). 

My current projects use external tools to drive the microscopes, etc. I use
LiveCode to "launch" the camera software  and make sure it saves
images/videos somewhere I can get to them for processing. Definitely not the
seamless user interface shop floor operators desire/deserve. I would love to
be able to use a native LiveCode capability to drive the tools but.... for
now, I do what I can and wait for the day I'll have time to figure out how
to build externals/widgets/LCB tools to drive the microscope from within my
apps.

Jim

##########################################
## From the dictionary for the entire revVideo section
###########################################
Changes
The use of <revInitializeVideoGrabber> was deprecated in version 8.1 of
LiveCode with new defaults for and as true on all systems apart from pre OS
X 10.8. The Windows build of LiveCode no longer supports any features and
setting the and
will have no effect.
Support for the "Video Grabber" library on Mac OS X ended in LiveCode 9.0.
###########################################
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Richmond via use-livecode
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 9:21 AM
To: hh via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Richmond <richmondmathewson at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Trying to get Camera Control. Community Plus License

I've just been fiddling around with the "Video Capture.rev" stack from LC
4.5 with no joy in LC 8.1.10.

Richmond.

On 27.01.19 17:02, hh via use-livecode wrote:
> Find some info here:
> https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/
>
>  From the 9.0.2-dict entry to cameraControlCreate:
> Edition: Indy
> OS: mac, windows, ios, android
>
> So, the Community plus edition is not the Indy edition.
>
> I will soon publish a *timelapseCamera* stack that runs on 
> Mac/Win/linux with LC 6/7/8/9 and Raspi (LC 651/704) for ALL editions 
> of LC.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From iowahengst at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 13:38:31 2019
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:38:31 -0600
Subject: OT Article That Includes LiveCode
Message-ID: <FBB1340B-C6C0-4EB1-81C8-C841463588CF@mac.com>

Hi All,


I just became of an article published by:
Australian Computer Society, Inc. This paper appeared at the 17th Australasian Computing Education Conference (ACE 2015), Sydney, Australia, January 2015. 

Entitled:
Using Cognitive Load Theory to select an Environment for Teaching Mobile Apps Development

Here?s the abstract:
"After considering a number of environments for the development of apps for mobile devices, we have evaluated five in terms of their suitability for students early in their programing study. For some of the evaluation we devised an evaluation scheme based on the principles of cognitive load theory to assess the relative ease or difficulty of learning and using each environment. After briefly presenting the scheme, we discuss our results, including our findings about which mobile apps development environments appear to show most promise for early-level programming students.?

One of the five IDEs is LiveCode.

Here?s the link:
https://www.academia.edu/21401775/Using_Cognitive_Load_Theory_to_select_an_Environment_for_Teaching_Mobile_Apps_Development?email_work_card=view-paper



be well,
randy
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com





From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Mon Jan 28 13:57:17 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:57:17 +0000
Subject: OT Article That Includes LiveCode
In-Reply-To: <FBB1340B-C6C0-4EB1-81C8-C841463588CF@mac.com>
References: <FBB1340B-C6C0-4EB1-81C8-C841463588CF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CE1BC58C-7859-45C3-B153-FD9A373332CE@iotecdigital.com>

Looks like LC scored pretty high, as we all might expect. 

Bob S


> On Jan 28, 2019, at 10:38 , Randy Hengst via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> I just became of an article published by:
> Australian Computer Society, Inc. This paper appeared at the 17th Australasian Computing Education Conference (ACE 2015), Sydney, Australia, January 2015. 
> 
> Entitled:
> Using Cognitive Load Theory to select an Environment for Teaching Mobile Apps Development
> 
> Here?s the abstract:
> "After considering a number of environments for the development of apps for mobile devices, we have evaluated five in terms of their suitability for students early in their programing study. For some of the evaluation we devised an evaluation scheme based on the principles of cognitive load theory to assess the relative ease or difficulty of learning and using each environment. After briefly presenting the scheme, we discuss our results, including our findings about which mobile apps development environments appear to show most promise for early-level programming students.?
> 
> One of the five IDEs is LiveCode.
> 
> Here?s the link:
> https://www.academia.edu/21401775/Using_Cognitive_Load_Theory_to_select_an_Environment_for_Teaching_Mobile_Apps_Development?email_work_card=view-paper
> 
> 
> 
> be well,
> randy
> www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jan 28 14:48:46 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:48:46 -0800
Subject: Never, ever use the name of a built-in property as a custom
	property
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0288aa50-071c-ecc0-42f9-b6e46356fe4d@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:
 > Sure, I'm not arguing for custom property sets -- just saying that if
 > you *are* going to use them, don't bork the naming convention.

Names of prop sets, or the names of keys within a set?

On the latter I have mixed feelings.

As you know, I have rather a fetish about naming conventions - for 
handlers, objects, and other things devs deal with.

But data is often user-facing, sometimes quite literally so, appearing 
in fields and other UI elements.

Properties are arrays, and arrays are collections of name-value pairs. 
And with name-value pairs, either the name or the value may be user-facing.

So as much as I find good naming conventions useful for both avoidance 
of technical errors and for readability, anything user-facing cannot be 
expected to have the same limitations.

If a problem arises from a key that conforms to the engine's slim 
requirements (AFAIK there's only one anymore, that the key length not 
exceed 255 chars), that would seem an opportunity to rethink the thing 
that handles the data, rather than the data itself.

The DataGrid is a special case, since its name-value pairs are used by 
developers, yet strives for easy-to-remember names for common things 
like "style".

Yet even there you did a great job of rethinking the thing that handles 
the data, leaving the data free to be as free as data often is.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From curry at pair.com  Mon Jan 28 14:54:41 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 14:54:41 -0500
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <df83fbea-34c2-f8a0-72d4-584289c05e91@mail.com>
References: <df83fbea-34c2-f8a0-72d4-584289c05e91@mail.com>
Message-ID: <ce1b925c-5c2c-d421-7b9f-29e20e518802@pair.com>


Ray:

 > For some time now I've noticed a substantial slowdown in
 > the script editor every time I upgrade to 8.X or 9.X.

If you're lucky, making adjustments (disabling real time protection mode 
or whitelisting LC and its filetypes) to your Anti Virus (such as 
Windows Defender) may alleviate the symptoms of this problem. That works 
in most but not all cases. Also turn off most of the "auto" features 
such as coloring and autocomplete and real-time compile in the script 
editor. See this bug:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604

And if applicable, add your own CC and note!

Notice the bug title is misleading, because (as I found out after filing 
the report) Macs sometimes have the same symptoms. Which platform are 
you using?

If you're not lucky and tweaking (or changing) AV doesn't do the trick, 
or if you're on Mac, please consider attempting a reliable recipe, 
because that has proved elusive. At the moment I'm no longer able to 
flip a setting on my computer to cause the Anti Virus obvious 
exaggeration of the symptoms on Windows, but eventually when I have some 
time I may attempt a recipe for Mac.

 > Which version of LC are you using?

I'm one of the lucky ones with greatly reduced symptoms after changing 
my AV, so using LC 902 an 901 on Win 10 and Mac, also LC 6.7 on Win 10 
and Mac for some work.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From RayHorsley at mail.com  Mon Jan 28 16:57:38 2019
From: RayHorsley at mail.com (Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:57:38 -0400
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <ce1b925c-5c2c-d421-7b9f-29e20e518802@pair.com>
References: <df83fbea-34c2-f8a0-72d4-584289c05e91@mail.com>
	<ce1b925c-5c2c-d421-7b9f-29e20e518802@pair.com>
Message-ID: <53e33765-e188-3600-9e9f-a9f1398ebbd5@mail.com>

Thanks Curry - I'm using Windows 10.? I'll try some of these things
you've suggested and get back.

On 1/28/2019 4:54 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:
>
> Ray:
>
> > For some time now I've noticed a substantial slowdown in
> > the script editor every time I upgrade to 8.X or 9.X.
>
> If you're lucky, making adjustments (disabling real time protection
> mode or whitelisting LC and its filetypes) to your Anti Virus (such as
> Windows Defender) may alleviate the symptoms of this problem. That
> works in most but not all cases. Also turn off most of the "auto"
> features such as coloring and autocomplete and real-time compile in
> the script editor. See this bug:
>
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604
>
> And if applicable, add your own CC and note!
>
> Notice the bug title is misleading, because (as I found out after
> filing the report) Macs sometimes have the same symptoms. Which
> platform are you using?
>
> If you're not lucky and tweaking (or changing) AV doesn't do the
> trick, or if you're on Mac, please consider attempting a reliable
> recipe, because that has proved elusive. At the moment I'm no longer
> able to flip a setting on my computer to cause the Anti Virus obvious
> exaggeration of the symptoms on Windows, but eventually when I have
> some time I may attempt a recipe for Mac.
>
> > Which version of LC are you using?
>
> I'm one of the lucky ones with greatly reduced symptoms after changing
> my AV, so using LC 902 an 901 on Win 10 and Mac, also LC 6.7 on Win 10
> and Mac for some work.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 17:07:50 2019
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 22:07:50 +0000
Subject: Livecode manifest settings
In-Reply-To: <BE9A6955-BDF9-4C92-8F47-FFCDD6F730B7@hyperhh.de>
References: <BE9A6955-BDF9-4C92-8F47-FFCDD6F730B7@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CAGASioMUA9r_5Gw+VtX5bVv-rD-n7UVj7CJg7fHZM0p4YCfHZw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm hoping that a settings in the Livecode manifest file would allow the
embedded browser widget to access the camera. According to the Mozilla info
on the HTML5 API:

   -
   https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/MediaDevices/getUserMedia#Permissions


To use getUserMedia() in an installable app (for example, a Firefox OS
app), you need to specify one or both of the following fields inside your
manifest file:

"permissions": {
>   "audio-capture": {
>     "description": "Required to capture audio using getUserMedia()"
>   },
>   "video-capture": {
>     "description": "Required to capture video using getUserMedia()"
>   }
> }


I'm guessing this might be Specific to Firefox? Or is it relevant to
Livecode apps.  I've checked Livecode Indy and while it is possible to use
the camera controls - you don't get access to the nice features you get if
you just use the browser widget and HTML5 api - so ideally it would be
great to get this working.


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 22:56:04 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 19:56:04 -0800
Subject: Never,
	ever use the name of a built-in property as a custom property
In-Reply-To: <0288aa50-071c-ecc0-42f9-b6e46356fe4d@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAKCLKtrqkfrJWCE-6sK3kw_HU=o1-Pg4Gb3_bsTSW1d93WaYNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0288aa50-071c-ecc0-42f9-b6e46356fe4d@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrW4JXGscqph6U1GEV=_MSyACKQAj_-hHw=pzvRceviNw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 11:49 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yet even there you did a great job of rethinking the thing that handles
> the data, leaving the data free to be as free as data often is.
>

Thanks! It was a pain to format, but my recent-acquired awareness of the
merge command helped keep it from being a complete disaster.


From toolbook at kestner.de  Tue Jan 29 08:29:57 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 14:29:57 +0100
Subject: AW: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <53e33765-e188-3600-9e9f-a9f1398ebbd5@mail.com>
References: <df83fbea-34c2-f8a0-72d4-584289c05e91@mail.com>	<ce1b925c-5c2c-d421-7b9f-29e20e518802@pair.com>
	<53e33765-e188-3600-9e9f-a9f1398ebbd5@mail.com>
Message-ID: <001d01d4b7d6$bb890330$329b0990$@kestner.de>

I am still trying to find reproducible recipes. Sometimes it really is a mess to work with the IDE, sometimes (same stack, same script) it is acceptable (not nice, not performant, but acceptable). I have switched off all "fancy features".

Beside of massive slowdowns, the 9er IDE has (at least on Win 10) some nasty behaviors. E.g. When using the scroll-bar, the line numbers don't get updated anymore. You have to stop scrolling and click somewhere within the script to update the line numbers.

>From time to time when working with the script and switching back to the main stack window, the window is disappeared, it even doesn't show up anymore in the window menu, though the window still is "anywhere". After some more clicking, the main window appears again - very strange!

In total very dissatisfying
Still trying to find recipes, Tiemo


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Ray via use-livecode
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2019 22:58
An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Ray <RayHorsley at mail.com>
Betreff: Re: Script Editor Performance

Thanks Curry - I'm using Windows 10.  I'll try some of these things you've suggested and get back.

On 1/28/2019 4:54 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:
>
> Ray:
>
> > For some time now I've noticed a substantial slowdown in the script 
> > editor every time I upgrade to 8.X or 9.X.
>
> If you're lucky, making adjustments (disabling real time protection 
> mode or whitelisting LC and its filetypes) to your Anti Virus (such as 
> Windows Defender) may alleviate the symptoms of this problem. That 
> works in most but not all cases. Also turn off most of the "auto"
> features such as coloring and autocomplete and real-time compile in 
> the script editor. See this bug:
>
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604
>
> And if applicable, add your own CC and note!
>
> Notice the bug title is misleading, because (as I found out after 
> filing the report) Macs sometimes have the same symptoms. Which 
> platform are you using?
>
> If you're not lucky and tweaking (or changing) AV doesn't do the 
> trick, or if you're on Mac, please consider attempting a reliable 
> recipe, because that has proved elusive. At the moment I'm no longer 
> able to flip a setting on my computer to cause the Anti Virus obvious 
> exaggeration of the symptoms on Windows, but eventually when I have 
> some time I may attempt a recipe for Mac.
>
> > Which version of LC are you using?
>
> I'm one of the lucky ones with greatly reduced symptoms after changing 
> my AV, so using LC 902 an 901 on Win 10 and Mac, also LC 6.7 on Win 10 
> and Mac for some work.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan 29 10:14:25 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 07:14:25 -0800
Subject: AW: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <001d01d4b7d6$bb890330$329b0990$@kestner.de>
References: <001d01d4b7d6$bb890330$329b0990$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <3fe59797-6cfc-44ac-b581-f44fd56e3b84@fourthworld.com>

Tiemo Hollmann wrote:

 > Beside of massive slowdowns, the 9er IDE has (at least on Win 10) some
 > nasty behaviors. E.g. When using the scroll-bar, the line numbers
 > don't get updated anymore. You have to stop scrolling and click
 > somewhere within the script to update the line numbers.

Thanks for mentioning that.  I've seen that too, but only intermittently 
and I haven't yet come up with a recipe.  Since no one else had 
mentioned it I was beginning the think I was the only one seeing it.

Maybe it is time to write a new SE.  The line number thing nudged me in 
that direction.  Once we turn off all the features that distinguish LC's 
SE, it's a text field with an Apply button, rather like MC's.  Nothing 
fancy, but super quick and fluid to work with.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Jan 29 11:09:25 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:09:25 +0100
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <3fe59797-6cfc-44ac-b581-f44fd56e3b84@fourthworld.com>
References: <001d01d4b7d6$bb890330$329b0990$@kestner.de>
	<3fe59797-6cfc-44ac-b581-f44fd56e3b84@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <46E4FFC0-A0CB-4CB4-8D40-E17B2D78844E@m-r-d.de>


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 29.01.2019 um 16:14 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Tiemo Hollmann wrote:
> 
> > Beside of massive slowdowns, the 9er IDE has (at least on Win 10) some
> > nasty behaviors. E.g. When using the scroll-bar, the line numbers
> > don't get updated anymore. You have to stop scrolling and click
> > somewhere within the script to update the line numbers.
> 
> Thanks for mentioning that.  I've seen that too, but only intermittently and I haven't yet come up with a recipe.  Since no one else had mentioned it I was beginning the think I was the only one seeing it.

As i wrote already in a post to a similar topic, i mostly can see this behaviour here on Mac OS X when in debug mode. When i then scroll, the line number very often do not update anymore, even if i jump into the next statement (CMD-i).
I then have to stop the script, close the script editor. After that it is working again until it happens again.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 29 11:43:57 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:43:57 +0000
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <46E4FFC0-A0CB-4CB4-8D40-E17B2D78844E@m-r-d.de>
References: <001d01d4b7d6$bb890330$329b0990$@kestner.de>
	<3fe59797-6cfc-44ac-b581-f44fd56e3b84@fourthworld.com>
	<46E4FFC0-A0CB-4CB4-8D40-E17B2D78844E@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <F46AD607-3EDD-4A23-BF81-22015CC16A15@iotecdigital.com>

Others have seen it and it seemed to be related to really long scripts. I am running 9.0.2 and have not seen this for a while. Open the datagrid behavior and scroll to the bottom. That should do it if it's gonna trigger. 

Bob S


> On Jan 29, 2019, at 08:09 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for mentioning that.  I've seen that too, but only intermittently and I haven't yet come up with a recipe.  Since no one else had mentioned it I was beginning the think I was the only one seeing it.
> 
> As i wrote already in a post to a similar topic, i mostly can see this behaviour here on Mac OS X when in debug mode. When i then scroll, the line number very often do not update anymore, even if i jump into the next statement (CMD-i).
> I then have to stop the script, close the script editor. After that it is working again until it happens again.




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 29 11:46:54 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:46:54 +0000
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <F46AD607-3EDD-4A23-BF81-22015CC16A15@iotecdigital.com>
References: <001d01d4b7d6$bb890330$329b0990$@kestner.de>
	<3fe59797-6cfc-44ac-b581-f44fd56e3b84@fourthworld.com>
	<46E4FFC0-A0CB-4CB4-8D40-E17B2D78844E@m-r-d.de>
	<F46AD607-3EDD-4A23-BF81-22015CC16A15@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <ACC505DC-B6BB-4A4F-946E-D8C43BF316D8@iotecdigital.com>

I just did and am not seeing the issue. 9.0.2 Community MacOS 10.14.2

Bob S


> On Jan 29, 2019, at 08:43 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Others have seen it and it seemed to be related to really long scripts. I am running 9.0.2 and have not seen this for a while. Open the datagrid behavior and scroll to the bottom. That should do it if it's gonna trigger. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 08:09 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for mentioning that.  I've seen that too, but only intermittently and I haven't yet come up with a recipe.  Since no one else had mentioned it I was beginning the think I was the only one seeing it.
>> 
>> As i wrote already in a post to a similar topic, i mostly can see this behaviour here on Mac OS X when in debug mode. When i then scroll, the line number very often do not update anymore, even if i jump into the next statement (CMD-i).
>> I then have to stop the script, close the script editor. After that it is working again until it happens again.




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Tue Jan 29 11:54:12 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 08:54:12 -0800
Subject: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <F46AD607-3EDD-4A23-BF81-22015CC16A15@iotecdigital.com>
References: <001d01d4b7d6$bb890330$329b0990$@kestner.de>
	<3fe59797-6cfc-44ac-b581-f44fd56e3b84@fourthworld.com>
	<46E4FFC0-A0CB-4CB4-8D40-E17B2D78844E@m-r-d.de>
	<F46AD607-3EDD-4A23-BF81-22015CC16A15@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <5977fc36-c736-f0df-6b2f-5552e64ab392@sonic.net>

On 1/29/19 8:43 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Others have seen it and it seemed to be related to really long scripts.

I've seen it on 20-line scripts. With 9.0.2.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Jan 29 12:35:17 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:35:17 +0000
Subject: browserDocumentLoadComplete fired twice Mobile
Message-ID: <F53B332E-B21C-4D08-B976-6E4D8B641B67@hindu.org>

browserDocumentLoadComplete

is not in the dictionary. It's in described in API doc for the browser widget. Maybe that is intentional

At any rate, for some reason if you have two browses widgets on the same card, but you have this in the script of only 1 browser widget 
 
widget "loader"
widget "Body"  # has the script:

On browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL
	# so do stuff
End browserDocumentLoadComplete

On desktop, it fires once, as expected. 

But using Network Tracer (a God Sent Plugin!) on mobile it fires twice and I can see that it is fired once when "loader" in invoked and once again when "body" in loader.

If as if the widget "loader" has the script also, but it does not.

Can anyone confirm this?  if so I will report a bug. But it a nuisance really because I'm getting double entries in the "Journal"

Now if there is no way to determine from

 browserDocumentLoadComplete 

which browser is calling the handler, I would provide a conditional (pseudo code)

if the browser widget is "Loader" then 
	# do nothing
  Else
     the browser widget is "body" 
    setAddJournal pURL
end if

maybe a second parameter is needed

browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL pTarget




From montero.je at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 12:36:39 2019
From: montero.je at gmail.com (Jose Enrique Montero)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:36:39 +0100
Subject: Google API places autocomplete
Message-ID: <CAPdMB5vWoQg43g7OrSXpVFZufLWS-u_sgTriV2WEYi+4DA-skA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, wich could be the best way to use the autocomplete address from google
api places, on mobile app.

- Browser with javascript
-mobilecontrol field text + api post
- map widget

best regards
Jose


From jjs at krutt.org  Tue Jan 29 12:17:11 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:17:11 +0100
Subject: Android needs 64 bit builds
Message-ID: <17c99ab9-eb38-2fa2-6a83-281e899c974b@krutt.org>

Hi,


just to let you know, but probably if you have a dev account at google 
you've received this message too, so for people who don't have a dev 
account at google.

This was in the email from Google for Android builds.


Get your apps ready for the 64-bit requirement Starting August 1, 2019,

all new apps and app updates that include native code are required to 
provide 64-bit versions,

in addition to 32-bit versions, when publishing to Google Play.

We want to help you get ready and know you need time to plan.

So i'm looking forward to lc9dp1.


Cheers, Jerry




From jjs at krutt.org  Tue Jan 29 12:21:24 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:21:24 +0100
Subject: IndyCam2_v100
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioPCFSw8aY_-E6OTWtsHUGL0eBKj3NvwJn1XX71zRJkwtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B2C643D6-04CB-41D7-89DA-DC92FB1D2827@hyperhh.de>
	<CAGASioPCFSw8aY_-E6OTWtsHUGL0eBKj3NvwJn1XX71zRJkwtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6713190-7ef7-30ba-f4f5-02cf3d2b4426@krutt.org>

the PLUS is there cause it has some extras, so you are able to put your 
free app on Apple's store

Op 28-1-2019 om 00:20 schreef David Bovill via use-livecode:
> Would be great to have a better description so I can see what it looks
> like, and what it does? For instance i don't need or want snapshot
> functionality - and I'm scared to fork out $500 for Indy - blind as i've no
> real idea what is in there.
>
> After all i just spend $80 or thereabouts on Community Plus because the
> description made me think I'd have some sort of access to the commercial
> plugins - only to find that is not the case. Surely this is a bad idea -
> shouldn't we get some time to see if we want to buy?
>
> On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 22:09, hh via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> This is now updated to v102 that removes a display bug on Windows
>> where I could not make two cams visible at the same time. So, if
>> you have two cameras attached then you see on MacOS the display
>> of both and on Windows10 only the selected one.
>>
>> Tested to work on MacOS 10.14 and Windows 10 with LC 9.0.2 Indy.
>>
>>> hh wrote:
>>> *** The stack does NOT run with LC Community ***
>>> (Because it uses the cameraControl that is available in
>>> the Indy or Business versions of LC only.)
>>>
>>> Download IndyCam2 from "Sample stacks" or
>>> http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/927/
>>>
>>> You can take snapshots with up to two (intern oder extern)
>>> cameras, may be also simple webcams.
>>> Each snapshot has at about 240 KByte.
>>>
>>> The snapshots can be filtered (directly in the stack) with
>>> one of the image effects from LCImageToolBox_89.
>>>
>>> There is also a timer for using this as timelapseCamera,
>>> shooting in intervals of 1 to 36600 seconds. While such a
>>> timelapse is running you can change the camera, the image
>>> filter and the interval.
>>>
>>> There is help in the stack.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From hh at hyperhh.de  Tue Jan 29 14:59:15 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 20:59:15 +0100
Subject: browserDocumentLoadComplete fired twice Mobile
Message-ID: <96ACCD49-12AE-463C-8AD1-2C87D2EBA201@hyperhh.de>

You could use "the target" do get the browser
that is calling the handler.



From hh at hyperhh.de  Tue Jan 29 15:06:55 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 21:06:55 +0100
Subject: browserDocumentLoadComplete fired twice Mobile
Message-ID: <DEEC0DB8-27B3-490E-BD47-00127895CF05@hyperhh.de>

> You could use "the target" do get the browser
> that is calling the handler...

.. and put the browserDocumentLoadComplete *only*
in the card's script (or the stack's script if the
widgets are on different cards).




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jan 29 16:29:49 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 15:29:49 -0600
Subject: The Notch
Message-ID: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>

I don't have an Android or iPhone with a notch. How do we deal with 
positioning for those? Anything I need to know?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan 29 16:37:07 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 13:37:07 -0800
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <cbc358fb-03f6-9072-6b5e-d7cd6c662b1c@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
 > I don't have an Android or iPhone with a notch. How do we deal with
 > positioning for those? Anything I need to know?

Here's the recipe I followed:

1. Place the phone in a durable bag.

2. Hammer it for 15 minutes or until the frustration with arbitrary 
design distinctions passes.

3. Mail the device to the manufacturer with a note reading, "Design 
improvements".

4. Buy a phone from a vendor with more confidence than one who needs to 
frustrate their entire ecosystem with arbitrary design distinctions.

;)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 29 16:59:54 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 21:59:54 +0000
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <cbc358fb-03f6-9072-6b5e-d7cd6c662b1c@fourthworld.com>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
	<cbc358fb-03f6-9072-6b5e-d7cd6c662b1c@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CD69AB0A-E6DA-4458-A068-081A1A3B1F79@iotecdigital.com>

They sent the phone back with a note that I had voided the warranty, for some reason. ;-)

Bob S


> On Jan 29, 2019, at 13:37 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> J. Landman Gay wrote:
> > I don't have an Android or iPhone with a notch. How do we deal with
> > positioning for those? Anything I need to know?
> 
> Here's the recipe I followed:
> 
> 1. Place the phone in a durable bag.
> 
> 2. Hammer it for 15 minutes or until the frustration with arbitrary design distinctions passes.
> 
> 3. Mail the device to the manufacturer with a note reading, "Design improvements".
> 
> 4. Buy a phone from a vendor with more confidence than one who needs to frustrate their entire ecosystem with arbitrary design distinctions.
> 
> ;)
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Tue Jan 29 16:59:41 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 13:59:41 -0800
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <cbc358fb-03f6-9072-6b5e-d7cd6c662b1c@fourthworld.com>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
	<cbc358fb-03f6-9072-6b5e-d7cd6c662b1c@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5b4d1e3e-3284-16ac-aff3-3e48721eca67@sonic.net>

On 1/29/19 1:37 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>  > I don't have an Android or iPhone with a notch. How do we deal with
>  > positioning for those? Anything I need to know?
> 
> Here's the recipe I followed:
> 
> 1. Place the phone in a durable bag.
> 
> 2. Hammer it for 15 minutes or until the frustration with arbitrary 
> design distinctions passes.
> 
> 3. Mail the device to the manufacturer with a note reading, "Design 
> improvements".
> 
> 4. Buy a phone from a vendor with more confidence than one who needs to 
> frustrate their entire ecosystem with arbitrary design distinctions.
> 
> ;)
> 

OK - granted I had to look up what a Notch is... I'm sure someone 
thought it was a good idea at the time. All right... not quite so sure. 
Probably more along the lines of "what can we do to make smartphones 
less usable? We've already got folks typing with their thumbs..."

https://bgr.com/2018/03/29/android-notch-vs-iphone-x-app-user-experience/

This looks like it might help...
https://proandroiddev.com/making-notch-friendly-apps-for-android-75776272be5c

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Jan 29 17:40:15 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:40:15 -0500
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <00b501d4b823$9d82fb00$d888f100$@net>

I have not yet addressed the Android notch. My LG v20 has an offset to the
right notch but it's reserved for the OS. For the iPhone I have a function
GetCardRect(). It returns a standard issue 4 item rect. I don't use things
like the "the top of this card...". As well as taking in account for the
keyboard it accounts for the iPhone notches. I select "show the status bar"
in the iOS standalone settings and GetCardRect() takes care of the rest. You
can even test in the IDE. I detect if the aspect ratio is an iPhone with a
notch and you can see what will happen on the X. This was an easy
implementation for me because I rolled my own device independence control
placement library long ago using GetCardRect() to deal with the keyboard.
This was long before the iPhoneX.  When the X appeared on the scene I just
added a dozen or so lines of code in GetCardRect() to deal with it. iOS was
very predictable because of Apples strict human interface guidelines. It's
out in the field and working nicely. But the Android is another matter.
There are so many variants to deal with. I just don't know how we can deal
with the Android notch without an LC implementation of an OS API hook or a
new Android manifest "Notch" key to keep the app out of the notch(or both).

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 4:30 PM
To: LiveCode Mailing List
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: The Notch

I don't have an Android or iPhone with a notch. How do we deal with
positioning for those? Anything I need to know?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jan 29 18:34:43 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:34:43 -0600
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <00b501d4b823$9d82fb00$d888f100$@net>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
	<00b501d4b823$9d82fb00$d888f100$@net>
Message-ID: <7d32d245-fa5e-7c5d-7944-ebecb12f12f1@hyperactivesw.com>

While Richard's recommendation is appealing, I can't really ask my 
customers to follow through. ;) I guess what I need to know is:

What does the screenrect return on a notched phone?
How about the rect of the card? Is it different than the screenrect?

Google says the default display, with no flags set, places the app 
window fully under the notch and blacks out the areas at the sides. How 
does this affect the card size? Does it get shorter? Or crop? Or scale 
to the smaller area as though the phone had a different aspect ratio, 
resulting in pillarboxing?

Android has flags that allow the app to use the areas around the notch, 
but LC doesn't tell us where those are, or even that a notch exists. I'm 
not sure what iOS does. I'll have to fire up simulators and emulators I 
suppose, but I'm hoping to save a lot of testing time if someone has 
already gone through this.

On 1/29/19 4:40 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> I have not yet addressed the Android notch. My LG v20 has an offset to the
> right notch but it's reserved for the OS. For the iPhone I have a function
> GetCardRect(). It returns a standard issue 4 item rect. I don't use things
> like the "the top of this card...". As well as taking in account for the
> keyboard it accounts for the iPhone notches. I select "show the status bar"
> in the iOS standalone settings and GetCardRect() takes care of the rest. You
> can even test in the IDE. I detect if the aspect ratio is an iPhone with a
> notch and you can see what will happen on the X. This was an easy
> implementation for me because I rolled my own device independence control
> placement library long ago using GetCardRect() to deal with the keyboard.
> This was long before the iPhoneX.  When the X appeared on the scene I just
> added a dozen or so lines of code in GetCardRect() to deal with it. iOS was
> very predictable because of Apples strict human interface guidelines. It's
> out in the field and working nicely. But the Android is another matter.
> There are so many variants to deal with. I just don't know how we can deal
> with the Android notch without an LC implementation of an OS API hook or a
> new Android manifest "Notch" key to keep the app out of the notch(or both).
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 4:30 PM
> To: LiveCode Mailing List
> Cc: J. Landman Gay
> Subject: The Notch
> 
> I don't have an Android or iPhone with a notch. How do we deal with
> positioning for those? Anything I need to know?
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jan 29 18:42:32 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:42:32 -0600
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <5b4d1e3e-3284-16ac-aff3-3e48721eca67@sonic.net>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
	<cbc358fb-03f6-9072-6b5e-d7cd6c662b1c@fourthworld.com>
	<5b4d1e3e-3284-16ac-aff3-3e48721eca67@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <ad0da284-99e0-c255-cdef-ecd20107878a@hyperactivesw.com>

On 1/29/19 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> On 1/29/19 1:37 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> ?> I don't have an Android or iPhone with a notch. How do we deal with
>> ?> positioning for those? Anything I need to know?
>>
>> Here's the recipe I followed:
>>
>> 1. Place the phone in a durable bag.
>>
>> 2. Hammer it for 15 minutes or until the frustration with arbitrary 
>> design distinctions passes.
>>
>> 3. Mail the device to the manufacturer with a note reading, "Design 
>> improvements".
>>
>> 4. Buy a phone from a vendor with more confidence than one who needs 
>> to frustrate their entire ecosystem with arbitrary design distinctions.
>>
>> ;)
>>
> 
> OK - granted I had to look up what a Notch is... I'm sure someone 
> thought it was a good idea at the time. All right... not quite so sure. 
> Probably more along the lines of "what can we do to make smartphones 
> less usable? We've already got folks typing with their thumbs..."
> 
> https://bgr.com/2018/03/29/android-notch-vs-iphone-x-app-user-experience/
> 
> This looks like it might help...
> https://proandroiddev.com/making-notch-friendly-apps-for-android-75776272be5c 
> 

I'd already seen the second link. The first one is amusing in its own 
way. Maybe some notchy person can tell me whether LC apps (in fullscreen 
mode) take up the whole screen or if they instead get pushed down 
underneath the eyesore.

It's all Apple's fault, they started all this.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From paul at researchware.com  Tue Jan 29 19:03:44 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 19:03:44 -0500
Subject: sysError values...
Message-ID: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>

In general, where does one find the English equivalent of the number 
returned by sysError for a given OS?

In this specific case, the OS is OSX and the value is 13.



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Jan 29 19:14:43 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:14:43 +0000
Subject: iOS simulator issue - LC 9.0.2, Xcode 10.0
Message-ID: <A458F0F4-E99A-40E0-AE45-2B1EACF8F207@unimelb.edu.au>

I?m running LC 9.0.2 on OSX Mojave and can?t get the simulator to run - it launches OK but LC throws an error part way through the test/build process.

Unable to start simulator: 634,0,0,unknown
C++ exception
573,228,1,revIPhoneSetSimulatorSDK

Any ideas?
Building direct to a phone works fine BTW.

Terry?

From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 29 19:15:01 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:15:01 +0000
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <ad0da284-99e0-c255-cdef-ecd20107878a@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
	<cbc358fb-03f6-9072-6b5e-d7cd6c662b1c@fourthworld.com>
	<5b4d1e3e-3284-16ac-aff3-3e48721eca67@sonic.net>
	<ad0da284-99e0-c255-cdef-ecd20107878a@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A3D491EA-2C34-4B62-8429-91F98EFE69A6@iotecdigital.com>

Say what you will about Steve Jobs (most people do) but I do not think he would have allowed this notched design. 

Bob S


> On Jan 29, 2019, at 15:42 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> OK - granted I had to look up what a Notch is... I'm sure someone thought it was a good idea at the time. All right... not quite so sure. Probably more along the lines of "what can we do to make smartphones less usable? We've already got folks typing with their thumbs..."
>> https://bgr.com/2018/03/29/android-notch-vs-iphone-x-app-user-experience/
>> This looks like it might help...
>> https://proandroiddev.com/making-notch-friendly-apps-for-android-75776272be5c 
> 
> I'd already seen the second link. The first one is amusing in its own way. Maybe some notchy person can tell me whether LC apps (in fullscreen mode) take up the whole screen or if they instead get pushed down underneath the eyesore.
> 
> It's all Apple's fault, they started all this.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay    




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Jan 29 19:18:57 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:18:57 +0000
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
References: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <049E4E37-94F5-4546-9B91-C79686D4845E@iotecdigital.com>

dsIrqErr = 13, /*uninstalled interrupt error*/

http://krypted.com/lists/comprehensive-list-of-mac-os-x-error-codes/

I just googled it. Google is a search engine where you type in words into a field on a web page that have something to do with what you want to know and then the search engine....

NVM. :-P

Bob S


> On Jan 29, 2019, at 16:03 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> In general, where does one find the English equivalent of the number returned by sysError for a given OS?
> 
> In this specific case, the OS is OSX and the value is 13.




From curry at pair.com  Tue Jan 29 20:04:31 2019
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 20:04:31 -0500
Subject: iOS simulator issue - LC 9.0.2, Xcode 10.0
In-Reply-To: <A458F0F4-E99A-40E0-AE45-2B1EACF8F207@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <A458F0F4-E99A-40E0-AE45-2B1EACF8F207@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <9cf5c1b9-001b-db60-5f17-441e0483e9ff@pair.com>


Terry:

 > can?t get the simulator to run - it launches OK but LC throws an
 > error part way through the test/build process.
 > Unable to start simulator

I've seen that! Can't remember which fix is for which error, but the 
handiest fix that I use most for Simulator is xCode's prefs: Command 
Line Tools version. Never leave home (or stay home and use Sim) without 
it. :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From paul at researchware.com  Tue Jan 29 20:16:14 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 20:16:14 -0500
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <049E4E37-94F5-4546-9B91-C79686D4845E@iotecdigital.com>
References: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
	<049E4E37-94F5-4546-9B91-C79686D4845E@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>

So thanks for finding this. I was Googling things like "Livecode list of 
system errors" or "LiveCode sysError value list" and so on. I was hoping 
or thinking LiveCode might have a FAQ or some document on their website 
listing them.

That said, I am not sure this page actually represents the values 
returned by the sysError() function in LiveCode. First of all it list 
two different errors with code "13":

dsIrqErr = 13, /*uninstalled interrupt error*/
sdmPRAMInitErr = 13, /*Slot PRAM could not be initialized.*/

Neither errors make much sense in the context of where in the script 
this error is occurring. The script is attempting to write a file and it 
is failing. I am 99% certain this issue is a permission issue (no write 
access to the folder). However, have the exact and correct error message 
corresponding to the sysError() function returning a value of 13 would 
be nice to help troubleshoot.



On 1/29/2019 7:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> dsIrqErr = 13, /*uninstalled interrupt error*/
>
> http://krypted.com/lists/comprehensive-list-of-mac-os-x-error-codes/
>
> I just googled it. Google is a search engine where you type in words into a field on a web page that have something to do with what you want to know and then the search engine....
>
> NVM. :-P
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 16:03 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> In general, where does one find the English equivalent of the number returned by sysError for a given OS?
>>
>> In this specific case, the OS is OSX and the value is 13.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue Jan 29 20:40:50 2019
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 20:40:50 -0500
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <7d32d245-fa5e-7c5d-7944-ebecb12f12f1@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>	<00b501d4b823$9d82fb00$d888f100$@net>
	<7d32d245-fa5e-7c5d-7944-ebecb12f12f1@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <00bc01d4b83c$d7d7a710$8786f530$@net>

For iOS it returns the rect of the largest rectangle on the screen in any of
3 orientations (iPhone X does not allow portrait upside down). An iPhone X
not only has the notch but rounded corners and the "swipe up home deal" area
that's always at the bottom and must remain visible and unimpaired.

Another wrinkle is "landscape and the iPhone X(all models)".

There are two layout choices for a rectangular landscape app. This assumes
you are already adding a margin on the notch and bottom(home swipe area)
sides.
#1) Use up to the top of the screen and add a margin on the non-notch side
so the app is not in the "curve" of the corner. This is what GetCardRect()
does.
#2) Use all the way to the edge of the non-notch side and add a top margin
so the app is not in the "curve" of the upper left or upper right
corner(depending on landscape left or right).
So you can choose 1 of 2 different aspect ratios for a landscape iPhone X LC
App.

< headache headache headache headache headache>

GetCardRect() also has the option to return the rect that does/doesn't
include the keyboard area if visible.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 6:35 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: The Notch

While Richard's recommendation is appealing, I can't really ask my customers
to follow through. ;) I guess what I need to know is:

What does the screenrect return on a notched phone?
How about the rect of the card? Is it different than the screenrect?

Google says the default display, with no flags set, places the app window
fully under the notch and blacks out the areas at the sides. How does this
affect the card size? Does it get shorter? Or crop? Or scale to the smaller
area as though the phone had a different aspect ratio, resulting in
pillarboxing?

Android has flags that allow the app to use the areas around the notch, but
LC doesn't tell us where those are, or even that a notch exists. I'm not
sure what iOS does. I'll have to fire up simulators and emulators I suppose,
but I'm hoping to save a lot of testing time if someone has already gone
through this.

On 1/29/19 4:40 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> I have not yet addressed the Android notch. My LG v20 has an offset to 
> the right notch but it's reserved for the OS. For the iPhone I have a 
> function GetCardRect(). It returns a standard issue 4 item rect. I 
> don't use things like the "the top of this card...". As well as taking 
> in account for the keyboard it accounts for the iPhone notches. I select
"show the status bar"
> in the iOS standalone settings and GetCardRect() takes care of the 
> rest. You can even test in the IDE. I detect if the aspect ratio is an 
> iPhone with a notch and you can see what will happen on the X. This 
> was an easy implementation for me because I rolled my own device 
> independence control placement library long ago using GetCardRect() to
deal with the keyboard.
> This was long before the iPhoneX.  When the X appeared on the scene I 
> just added a dozen or so lines of code in GetCardRect() to deal with 
> it. iOS was very predictable because of Apples strict human interface 
> guidelines. It's out in the field and working nicely. But the Android is
another matter.
> There are so many variants to deal with. I just don't know how we can 
> deal with the Android notch without an LC implementation of an OS API 
> hook or a new Android manifest "Notch" key to keep the app out of the
notch(or both).
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
> Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 4:30 PM
> To: LiveCode Mailing List
> Cc: J. Landman Gay
> Subject: The Notch
> 
> I don't have an Android or iPhone with a notch. How do we deal with 
> positioning for those? Anything I need to know?
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Jan 29 20:41:46 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 01:41:46 +0000
Subject: iOS simulator issue - LC 9.0.2, Xcode 10.0
In-Reply-To: <9cf5c1b9-001b-db60-5f17-441e0483e9ff@pair.com>
References: <A458F0F4-E99A-40E0-AE45-2B1EACF8F207@unimelb.edu.au>
	<9cf5c1b9-001b-db60-5f17-441e0483e9ff@pair.com>
Message-ID: <F86C97D8-9A4E-47B8-A2CD-00C6D08803C1@unimelb.edu.au>

Thanks Curry - seems to be working for now at least after a full restart.  Command line tools were set to the right version but interestingly although the iOS12 simulator runs, it doesn't show up in the list of installed simulators in the components pane of the Xcode prefs window.

Terry...


On 30/1/19, 12:05 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    
    Terry:
    
     > can?t get the simulator to run - it launches OK but LC throws an
     > error part way through the test/build process.
     > Unable to start simulator
    
    I've seen that! Can't remember which fix is for which error, but the 
    handiest fix that I use most for Simulator is xCode's prefs: Command 
    Line Tools version. Never leave home (or stay home and use Sim) without 
    it. :)
    
    Best wishes,
    
    Curry Kenworthy
    
    Custom Software Development
    "Better Methods, Better Results"
    LiveCode Training and Consulting
    http://livecodeconsulting.com/
    
    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jan 29 22:10:04 2019
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 19:10:04 -0800
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>
References: <03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <c99f6e08-8a2f-dbc8-33cf-322e3904cbaa@fourthworld.com>

Paul Dupuis wrote:

 > I was Googling things like "Livecode list of system errors" or
 > "LiveCode sysError value list" and so on. I was hoping or thinking
 > LiveCode might have a FAQ or some document on their website
 > listing them.
 >
 > That said, I am not sure this page actually represents the values
 > returned by the sysError() function in LiveCode. First of all it list
 > two different errors with code "13"...

And now you've discovered by LiveCode doesn't attempt to document OS 
error codes: If the OS vendor themselves can't keep it straight, how 
could any third party? :)

I wish Apple well, but I'm finding myself feeling hopeful as a result of 
their sales/stock drop. The best years of their relations with 
developers were when they were hungry, in the mid-90s. Hunger is 
tonifying.  Maybe another six months of decline and they'll start 
remember that it's app devs who make a platform worth using.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Tue Jan 29 23:13:54 2019
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 20:13:54 -0800
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <c99f6e08-8a2f-dbc8-33cf-322e3904cbaa@fourthworld.com>
References: <03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>
	<c99f6e08-8a2f-dbc8-33cf-322e3904cbaa@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ffdf3326-20a7-ab8d-394c-6bfbab652e52@sonic.net>

On 1/29/19 7:10 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

> I wish Apple well, but I'm finding myself feeling hopeful as a result of 
> their sales/stock drop. The best years of their relations with 
> developers were when they were hungry, in the mid-90s. Hunger is 
> tonifying.? Maybe another six months of decline and they'll start 
> remember that it's app devs who make a platform worth using.
> 

Apple appears a bit unclear on the concept...from an AP story:

"Apple hoped to offset slowing demand for iPhones by raising the prices 
of its most important product..."

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jan 29 23:47:06 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 22:47:06 -0600
Subject: The Notch
In-Reply-To: <00bc01d4b83c$d7d7a710$8786f530$@net>
References: <9589bcfb-67d1-afbc-69c4-93d471db6580@hyperactivesw.com>
	<00b501d4b823$9d82fb00$d888f100$@net>
	<7d32d245-fa5e-7c5d-7944-ebecb12f12f1@hyperactivesw.com>
	<00bc01d4b83c$d7d7a710$8786f530$@net>
Message-ID: <379fc325-de52-b4f1-937e-cd4ad89b3fcb@hyperactivesw.com>

Thanks, that sounds like what the default Android setup does too. So if 
I understand it right, the screenrect returns the available area of the 
screen below the notch, and I assume that fullscreenMode adapts to only 
that area as well.

My current project won't be supporting a landscape layout so at least I 
don't need to worry about that. I'll eventually start looking at the 
simulators/emulators to make sure I've got it right, but you've given me 
a head start for now. We're still at the design phase.

The notch is a silly hardware decision, and I can't fathom why Android 
manufacturers think they need to copy Apple's ugly design. And from what 
I read on the Android blogs, very few Android users like the notch 
either, and many are virulently against it.

Headache indeed.

On 1/29/19 7:40 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> For iOS it returns the rect of the largest rectangle on the screen in any of
> 3 orientations (iPhone X does not allow portrait upside down). An iPhone X
> not only has the notch but rounded corners and the "swipe up home deal" area
> that's always at the bottom and must remain visible and unimpaired.
> 
> Another wrinkle is "landscape and the iPhone X(all models)".
> 
> There are two layout choices for a rectangular landscape app. This assumes
> you are already adding a margin on the notch and bottom(home swipe area)
> sides.
> #1) Use up to the top of the screen and add a margin on the non-notch side
> so the app is not in the "curve" of the corner. This is what GetCardRect()
> does.
> #2) Use all the way to the edge of the non-notch side and add a top margin
> so the app is not in the "curve" of the upper left or upper right
> corner(depending on landscape left or right).
> So you can choose 1 of 2 different aspect ratios for a landscape iPhone X LC
> App.
> 
> < headache headache headache headache headache>
> 
> GetCardRect() also has the option to return the rect that does/doesn't
> include the keyboard area if visible.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Jan 30 00:17:32 2019
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:17:32 -0500
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>
References: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
	<049E4E37-94F5-4546-9B91-C79686D4845E@iotecdigital.com>
	<03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <A10397C3-299C-4666-B51E-C550B7F226EE@all-auctions.com>

Hi Paul,

I have gone down that road before too.
Yes, sysError 13 is a permissions error.

Rick

> On Jan 29, 2019, at 8:16 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> So thanks for finding this. I was Googling things like "Livecode list of system errors" or "LiveCode sysError value list" and so on. I was hoping or thinking LiveCode might have a FAQ or some document on their website listing them.
> 
> That said, I am not sure this page actually represents the values returned by the sysError() function in LiveCode. First of all it list two different errors with code "13":
> 
> dsIrqErr = 13, /*uninstalled interrupt error*/
> sdmPRAMInitErr = 13, /*Slot PRAM could not be initialized.*/
> 
> Neither errors make much sense in the context of where in the script this error is occurring. The script is attempting to write a file and it is failing. I am 99% certain this issue is a permission issue (no write access to the folder). However, have the exact and correct error message corresponding to the sysError() function returning a value of 13 would be nice to help troubleshoot.
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/29/2019 7:18 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> dsIrqErr = 13, /*uninstalled interrupt error*/
>> 
>> http://krypted.com/lists/comprehensive-list-of-mac-os-x-error-codes/
>> 
>> I just googled it. Google is a search engine where you type in words into a field on a web page that have something to do with what you want to know and then the search engine....
>> 
>> NVM. :-P
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 16:03 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In general, where does one find the English equivalent of the number returned by sysError for a given OS?
>>> 
>>> In this specific case, the OS is OSX and the value is 13.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 03:45:32 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:45:32 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtqcwM=J71MTbqyuLpinpOXBZ6kexkcqgcBZgr7P4SOL4g@mail.gmail.com>

As usual, you can get Navigator here
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab it
from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.

Briefly this fixes an issue with folding when multiple targets are
displayed, and adds alignment and conformity tools to the Size/Location
editor. In particular, you can select any group of controls, and then
select any of those controls as the template to align the others to. So you
can right-align a bunch of controls to one of them that *isn't* the
right-most of them (if that's what you want to do). You can see it in
action in this video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTbWhxH5uo0>.

Fixes:
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/29
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/28
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/30
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/31

Addresses somewhat:
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/23


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Wed Jan 30 03:58:26 2019
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:58:26 -0800
Subject: how to write control-c to an open process?
Message-ID: <217941ec-9c02-f7c9-1720-4a4a7a2cb965@pdslabs.net>

In a LC script I need to write control-c to an open process so the app 
being run as a process will end. (At least that's how I can end it in 
Terminal). Has anyone had success doing this? Please share what you have 
learned about it.

Thanks -

-- 
Phil Davis




From revdev at pdslabs.net  Wed Jan 30 05:25:40 2019
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 02:25:40 -0800
Subject: how to write control-c to an open process?
In-Reply-To: <217941ec-9c02-f7c9-1720-4a4a7a2cb965@pdslabs.net>
References: <217941ec-9c02-f7c9-1720-4a4a7a2cb965@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <5a8d3ea1-2d23-19fd-0937-3923bd639e92@pdslabs.net>

I just found a different way to accomplish the same outcome.

Instead of writing some special form of control-c to the process, I can 
get the ID of the process and issue a 'kill' shell command for that ID 
using the 'kill' format option that sends the same signal as the one 
sent by typing control-c. The outcome is identical to control-c but no 
control chars are required.

So this works:

    kill -s INT <PID>

Where <PID> is the numeric ID of the process I want to end.

*whew*

Thanks -
Phil



On 1/30/19 12:58 AM, Phil Davis via use-livecode wrote:
> In a LC script I need to write control-c to an open process so the app 
> being run as a process will end. (At least that's how I can end it in 
> Terminal). Has anyone had success doing this? Please share what you 
> have learned about it.
>
> Thanks -
>

-- 
Phil Davis



From dvglasgow at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 05:28:02 2019
From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:28:02 +0000
Subject: Woo License Keys Manager
Message-ID: <0A3F24CA-8F14-4580-BCC2-A4B010F00560@gmail.com>

Does anyone use the above for managing keys on their LC apps?  If so, are you happy with it?  

Conversely, anyone recommend any other solutions, whether just license management, or complete ecommece?

Cheers,

David Glasgow


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Jan 30 06:05:30 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 12:05:30 +0100
Subject: Woo License Keys Manager
In-Reply-To: <0A3F24CA-8F14-4580-BCC2-A4B010F00560@gmail.com>
References: <0A3F24CA-8F14-4580-BCC2-A4B010F00560@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8DBF58CE-A71B-4F6E-AA61-087CDB9783F5@m-r-d.de>

Hi,

i am using Zygodact from Jacqueline Landman-Gay - http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html>

with Livecode Server and Fastspring. After a successful order Fastspring contacts my Livecode Server and transmits the purchase information.
My LC Server script then creates a License Key which works only with the E-Mail address of the buyer and returns it to Fastsrpring. Fastspring then send this information to the buyer.

Zygodact works very well with Livecode Server

I?ve written Livecode lesson about how to use Zygodact and LC Server with Fastspring. See here
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4068/l/620020-using-zygodact-key-generator-with-fastspring <http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4068/l/620020-using-zygodact-key-generator-with-fastspring>

Works for some years now w/o a problem.


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 30.01.2019 um 11:28 schrieb David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Does anyone use the above for managing keys on their LC apps?  If so, are you happy with it?  
> 
> Conversely, anyone recommend any other solutions, whether just license management, or complete ecommece?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David Glasgow
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Jan 30 06:07:50 2019
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 12:07:50 +0100
Subject: Woo License Keys Manager
In-Reply-To: <8DBF58CE-A71B-4F6E-AA61-087CDB9783F5@m-r-d.de>
References: <0A3F24CA-8F14-4580-BCC2-A4B010F00560@gmail.com>
	<8DBF58CE-A71B-4F6E-AA61-087CDB9783F5@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <09530964-33C0-4D0F-9DE9-242686EDDEEA@m-r-d.de>

What i forgot. The good thing is also that i do not have to hassle with invoices because Fastspring is the seller and therefore FS is doing all that stuff including correct VAT handling.
I just get my monthly payments.


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 30.01.2019 um 12:05 schrieb Matthias Rebbe <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de <mailto:matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de>>:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> i am using Zygodact from Jacqueline Landman-Gay - http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html>
> 
> with Livecode Server and Fastspring. After a successful order Fastspring contacts my Livecode Server and transmits the purchase information.
> My LC Server script then creates a License Key which works only with the E-Mail address of the buyer and returns it to Fastsrpring. Fastspring then send this information to the buyer.
> 
> Zygodact works very well with Livecode Server
> 
> I?ve written Livecode lesson about how to use Zygodact and LC Server with Fastspring. See here
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4068/l/620020-using-zygodact-key-generator-with-fastspring <http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4068/l/620020-using-zygodact-key-generator-with-fastspring>
> 
> Works for some years now w/o a problem.
> 
> 
> Matthias Rebbe
> 
> free tools for Livecoders:
> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
> 
>> Am 30.01.2019 um 11:28 schrieb David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>> 
>> Does anyone use the above for managing keys on their LC apps?  If so, are you happy with it?  
>> 
>> Conversely, anyone recommend any other solutions, whether just license management, or complete ecommece?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> David Glasgow
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
> 



From iphonelagi at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 06:19:02 2019
From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 11:19:02 +0000
Subject: AW: Script Editor Performance
In-Reply-To: <3fe59797-6cfc-44ac-b581-f44fd56e3b84@fourthworld.com>
References: <001d01d4b7d6$bb890330$329b0990$@kestner.de>
	<3fe59797-6cfc-44ac-b581-f44fd56e3b84@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1h1VAUMtRsoinaydBaZ4qjxr+n4VHDfG+ew3vxOvXx3rV+cQ@mail.gmail.com>

#METOO ;-)

On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 15:14, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Tiemo Hollmann wrote:
>
>  > Beside of massive slowdowns, the 9er IDE has (at least on Win 10) some
>  > nasty behaviors. E.g. When using the scroll-bar, the line numbers
>  > don't get updated anymore. You have to stop scrolling and click
>  > somewhere within the script to update the line numbers.
>
> Thanks for mentioning that.  I've seen that too, but only intermittently
> and I haven't yet come up with a recipe.  Since no one else had
> mentioned it I was beginning the think I was the only one seeing it.
>
> Maybe it is time to write a new SE.  The line number thing nudged me in
> that direction.  Once we turn off all the features that distinguish LC's
> SE, it's a text field with an Apply button, rather like MC's.  Nothing
> fancy, but super quick and fluid to work with.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From chipsm at themartinz.com  Wed Jan 30 08:09:01 2019
From: chipsm at themartinz.com (chipsm at themartinz.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 05:09:01 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
Message-ID: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>

Ji Geoff,
I am responding to you 7.3rc1 and this is probably true about the other
releases too.
I noticed that if I open a group in a New Navigator window, the first
Navigator window has lost control over the group that precipitated it. 
The new Navigator Window Group items don't respond to any items that are
clicked or highlighted.
Also, if I open a group for editing, the Navigator window does not respond
to any items that are clicked or highlighted in the Group Edit window.
I can live with this now that I know  about this behavior, but I don't know
if anyone has pointed this out to you.

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:59 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
Subject: Navigator 7.2rc1 is available

As usual, you can get Navigator here
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz3zqi4botzglgq/navigator.zip?dl=1>. Or grab it
from GitHub <https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator>.

For details read the release notes
<https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/releases/tag/v7.2rc1>, but briefly
this:

-- fixes the color sets being borked by an earlier release.
-- significantly improves the relayering code -- again.
-- -- It was a minor thing, but it should now be possible to have a group be
the topmost object, and drag a control below it in Navigator's list, and
have the control *not* placed into the group, which is now consistent with
the behavior in any other circumstance.
-- -- Also, there were circumstances where Navigator would start editing a
group to place a control into the group, and then fail, leaving the group in
edit mode. This should now be fixed.
-- -- Finally, the relayering code has again been simplified. Details below
if anyone is curious -- it's weird.

If you find any bugs, file them here
<https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues>.

----------------------------------------------------

To achieve uniform behavior with the simplest code, here are (most of) the
relayering steps in pseudo LC:

set relayergroupedcontrols to true
set layer to 1 -- this gets the control out of any groups it is in set
relayergroupedcontrols to false set layer to 9999999 -- the control is now
at the highest level if target is group then
   set relayergroupedcontrols to true
   set the layer to 1 + the layer of the target group -- the control is now
in the group
   set relayergroupedcontrols to false
   start editing group
   set layer to 9999999 -- the control is now at the highest level of the
group end if if targetobject is not empty -- the object to place the control
just under
-- if empty, the control should remain at the top
    then set the layer to the layer of the targetobject -- works whether
editing a group or not if target is group
    then stop editing group -- need to make sure to use a "background"
reference

This doesn't include the logic for using the option key to move/copy if the
control is from another card, or duplicate/move if from the same card.

Also important to use simple references that don't include the full
hierarchy of groups, since that will fail while editing a group.
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Wed Jan 30 08:11:04 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 08:11:04 -0500
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
References: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <6ab2b6bc-04f3-0a67-563d-95aa4b57c5e6@researchware.com>

On 1/29/2019 7:03 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> In general, where does one find the English equivalent of the number 
> returned by sysError for a given OS?
>
> In this specific case, the OS is OSX and the value is 13.
>

Richard: I completely agree. Apple is seemingly the worst in this 
regard. Especially considering the LC Dictionary entry for sysError 
where it states:

On Unix systems, thesysErrorfunctionreturnsthevalueof the "errno"variable.

On Windows systems, thesysErrorfunctionreturnsthevaluereturned by the 
"GetLastError()"function.

But absolutely no mention of where the OSX sysError value comes from. 
For Linux and Windows you can do a targeted search and find information. 
It was easy to find 
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/debug/system-error-codes 
(even if there is 15999 codes!)

If someone form LiveCode can tell me where the OSX sysError value 
actually comes from, I will try to (a) find an authoritative list and 
(b) finally learn enough of GIT to update the dictionary entry for sysError


Rick: Thank you for the confirmation that it is a permissions issue.



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Jan 30 08:57:21 2019
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 07:57:21 -0600
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <6ab2b6bc-04f3-0a67-563d-95aa4b57c5e6@researchware.com>
References: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
	<6ab2b6bc-04f3-0a67-563d-95aa4b57c5e6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-Ved2woNyQuNRpsLv3JANgVUydNzmtLt0E7Bj1wWpPjg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 7:11 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> But absolutely no mention of where the OSX sysError value comes from.
> For Linux and Windows you can do a targeted search and find information.
> It was easy to find
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/debug/system-error-codes
> (even if there is 15999 codes!)
>

I think that sysError() on macOS is just returning the OSErr or OSStatus
codes returned by macOS API calls. I found this document on error handling
which is informative:

https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ErrorHandlingCocoa/ErrorObjectsDomains/ErrorObjectsDomains.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001806-CH202-CJBGAIBJ


While the document discusses NSError (Cocoa) it does bring up the concept
of domains. In Listing 1-1 it lists the POSIX domain errors with "13" being
a "Permission Denied" error. Table 1-1 lists the various domains  with
information on which header files contain the error codes. I searched the
non-Cocoa headers on opensource.apple.com and found these urls:

https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-792/osfmk/mach/kern_return.h
https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-4570.71.2/bsd/sys/errno.h.auto.html
https://opensource.apple.com/source/CarbonHeaders/CarbonHeaders-18.1/MacErrors.h

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com


From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Jan 30 09:01:24 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:01:24 +0000
Subject: browserDocumentLoadComplete fired twice Mobile
In-Reply-To: <DEEC0DB8-27B3-490E-BD47-00127895CF05@hyperhh.de>
References: <DEEC0DB8-27B3-490E-BD47-00127895CF05@hyperhh.de>
Message-ID: <CE1F3D9A-AFE0-4367-99C6-FC64416CE710@hindu.org>

I learned something today, wow, the target only records mouse click budget record what the message it going to 

This was useful. It is still being call twice on mobile. NetWork tracer output. 
I have to set a flag or same 

ON desktop

info	1/30/19 3:50:49 AM	from loader: true
	openCard	2		card id 1419 of stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:50:49 AM	from browser: true
	opencard	18	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:50:50 AM	begin load url , body is visible: false
	browserDocumentLoadBegin	90	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:50:50 AM	false; show the loader https://www.himalayanacademy.com/monastery/about
	browserDocumentLoadBegin	97	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:50:50 AM	browserDocumentLoadComplete
	browserDocumentLoadComplete	101	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:50:51 AM	false; show the target: Body; https://www.himalayanacademy.com/monastery/about
	browserDocumentLoadComplete	112	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:50:51 AM	saving journal entry for view_SivaSivaBrowser 
	Journal_RecordEntry	157		stack "model_SivaSivaJournal"

on Android

info	1/30/19 3:45:02 AM	receive a click	
	mouseup	2		widget id 8198 of card id 8169 of stack "Siva-Siva-Portal"
info	1/30/19 3:45:15 AM	from loader: true	
	openCard	2		card id 1419 of stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:45:16 AM	from browser: true	
	opencard	18	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:45:16 AM	begin load url , body is visible: true
	browserDocumentLoadBegin	90	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:45:16 AM	false; show the loader https://www.himalayanacademy.com/monastery/about
	browserDocumentLoadBegin	97	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:45:16 AM	browserDocumentLoadComplete
	browserDocumentLoadComplete	101	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:45:16 AM	true; show the target: Body; https://www.himalayanacademy.com/monastery/about
	browserDocumentLoadComplete	112	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:45:16 AM	saving journal entry for view_SivaSivaBrowser
	Journal_RecordEntry	157		stack "model_SivaSivaJournal"
info	1/30/19 3:45:18 AM	browserDocumentLoadComplete
	browserDocumentLoadComplete	101	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:45:19 AM	false; show the target: Body; https://www.himalayanacademy.com/monastery/about
	browserDocumentLoadComplete	112	stack "behavior_view_SivaSivaBrowser"	stack "view_SivaSivaBrowser"
info	1/30/19 3:45:19 AM	saving journal entry for view_SivaSivaBrowser
	Journal_RecordEntry	157		stack "model_SivaSivaJournal"
info	1/30/19 3:45:26 AM	receive a click	mouseup
	2		widget id 8198 of card id 8169 of stack "Siva-Siva-Portal"

Brahmanathaswami
 

?On 1/29/19, 10:08 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of hh via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    >You could use "the target" do get the browser
    >that is calling the handler...
    
    .. and put the browserDocumentLoadComplete *only*
    in the card's script (or the stack's script if the
    widgets are on different cards).


From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Jan 30 09:18:21 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:18:21 +0000
Subject: browserDocumentLoadComplete fired twice Mobile
In-Reply-To: <CE1F3D9A-AFE0-4367-99C6-FC64416CE710@hindu.org>
References: <DEEC0DB8-27B3-490E-BD47-00127895CF05@hyperhh.de>
	<CE1F3D9A-AFE0-4367-99C6-FC64416CE710@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <F765D0ED-DAC2-4685-B3FF-AFE8870585F7@hindu.org>

Had to add hack for mobile. This works

Local sHackDownloadCompleteFlag

on browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL
   add 1 to sHackDownloadCompleteFlag
   ntinfo ("download flag: " & sHackDownloadCompleteFlag)
   if pURL is not empty then
      dispatch "hideloader" to me 
   end if
   show widget "Body"
   show group "footer"
   put "true" into sLoadSuccessFlag
   put pURL into sBrowserURL
   browser_SetLastURL pURL
   put short name of the target into tBrowser
   
   ntInfo ( (the lockscreen) & "; show the target: " & tBrowser &"; " &  pURL)
   if tBrowser = "Body" then  
      if isMobile() = "true" then
         if sHackDownloadCompleteFlag = 2 then
            journal_AddEntry  
         end if 
      else
         journal_AddEntry 
      end if
   end if
   if  sHackDownloadCompleteFlag = 2 then
      put 0 into sHackDownloadCompleteFlag
   end if
end browserDocumentLoadComplete

Brahmanathaswami
 

?On 1/30/19, 4:02 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    I learned something today, wow, the target only records mouse click budget record what the message it going to 
    
    This was useful. It is still being call twice on mobile. NetWork tracer output. 
    I have to set a flag or same


From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Jan 30 09:33:50 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:33:50 +0000
Subject: browserDocumentLoadComplete fired twice Mobile
In-Reply-To: <CE1F3D9A-AFE0-4367-99C6-FC64416CE710@hindu.org>
References: <DEEC0DB8-27B3-490E-BD47-00127895CF05@hyperhh.de>
	<CE1F3D9A-AFE0-4367-99C6-FC64416CE710@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <416283F9-EE46-4CB6-876A-9F74F7B27770@hindu.org>

Opps fix my post

    I learned something today, wow, the target not only records mouse clicks, but record what the message it going to 



From paul at researchware.com  Wed Jan 30 10:06:31 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:06:31 -0500
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG-Ved2woNyQuNRpsLv3JANgVUydNzmtLt0E7Bj1wWpPjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
	<6ab2b6bc-04f3-0a67-563d-95aa4b57c5e6@researchware.com>
	<CAHg3tG-Ved2woNyQuNRpsLv3JANgVUydNzmtLt0E7Bj1wWpPjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbf0a51b-2ec8-2051-f0b8-c970a0fd4b3f@researchware.com>

Thank you Trevor!


On 1/30/2019 8:57 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 7:11 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> But absolutely no mention of where the OSX sysError value comes from.
>> For Linux and Windows you can do a targeted search and find information.
>> It was easy to find
>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/debug/system-error-codes
>> (even if there is 15999 codes!)
>>
> I think that sysError() on macOS is just returning the OSErr or OSStatus
> codes returned by macOS API calls. I found this document on error handling
> which is informative:
>
> https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ErrorHandlingCocoa/ErrorObjectsDomains/ErrorObjectsDomains.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001806-CH202-CJBGAIBJ
>
>
> While the document discusses NSError (Cocoa) it does bring up the concept
> of domains. In Listing 1-1 it lists the POSIX domain errors with "13" being
> a "Permission Denied" error. Table 1-1 lists the various domains  with
> information on which header files contain the error codes. I searched the
> non-Cocoa headers on opensource.apple.com and found these urls:
>
> https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-792/osfmk/mach/kern_return.h
> https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-4570.71.2/bsd/sys/errno.h.auto.html
> https://opensource.apple.com/source/CarbonHeaders/CarbonHeaders-18.1/MacErrors.h
>




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Wed Jan 30 11:06:05 2019
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 16:06:05 +0000
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>
References: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
	<049E4E37-94F5-4546-9B91-C79686D4845E@iotecdigital.com>
	<03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <76D9BD97-B5A4-4F54-8142-EE9DCE0F3899@iotecdigital.com>

Is it 13 or -13? I didn't see an entry for -13, but negative errors are different. Also this may not be a complete list, or the sysError() function in LC may not have anything to do with *actual* OS X system errors, and finally you may be getting the actual last error the OS generated, but it has nothing to do with your problem. 

Bob S


> On Jan 29, 2019, at 17:16 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> So thanks for finding this. I was Googling things like "Livecode list of system errors" or "LiveCode sysError value list" and so on. I was hoping or thinking LiveCode might have a FAQ or some document on their website listing them.
> 
> That said, I am not sure this page actually represents the values returned by the sysError() function in LiveCode. First of all it list two different errors with code "13":
> 
> dsIrqErr = 13, /*uninstalled interrupt error*/
> sdmPRAMInitErr = 13, /*Slot PRAM could not be initialized.*/
> 
> Neither errors make much sense in the context of where in the script this error is occurring. The script is attempting to write a file and it is failing. I am 99% certain this issue is a permission issue (no write access to the folder). However, have the exact and correct error message corresponding to the sysError() function returning a value of 13 would be nice to help troubleshoot.




From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 12:31:21 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 09:31:21 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>
References: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtot=WS9sHm7grGk_Uzn=OVp4-OuE=2qUCbEF_3oUjb6=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:09 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ji Geoff,
> I am responding to you 7.3rc1 and this is probably true about the other
> releases too.
> I noticed that if I open a group in a New Navigator window, the first
> Navigator window has lost control over the group that precipitated it.
> The new Navigator Window Group items don't respond to any items that are
> clicked or highlighted.
> Also, if I open a group for editing, the Navigator window does not respond
> to any items that are clicked or highlighted in the Group Edit window.
> I can live with this now that I know  about this behavior, but I don't know
> if anyone has pointed this out to you.
>

I'm not sure what you mean by "lost control". I followed these steps:

1. Created a Livecode window, added three buttons, and grouped them.
2. Opened Navigator. It shows the stack, the card, the group, and the three
buttons.
3. Right-click on the group in Navigator, and select "Browse Controls" on
the popup menu. Navigator shows the stack, the group, and the buttons.
4. Right-click the first button in Navigator and select Rename... on the
popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename the button.
5. Right-click the group in Navigator and select Open in New Navigator on
the popup menu. Navigator opens a new window showing the same controls.
6. In the new Navigator, right-click the second button and select Rename...
on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename the
button.
7. In the original Navigator, right-click the third button and select
Rename... on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully
rename the button.

So Navigator still knows what controls it's supposed to display, displays
them, and works with them.

Wait -- do you mean highlighting? As in, select controls in Navigator, and
they become selected in Livecode, and vice versa? If so, that was
originally a function of Navigator displaying "this card of the topstack"
because it's impossible to select controls in a card that isn't being
displayed. At some point there was a bug in Navigator where the code was
trying to match highlights for anything displayed in Navigator. Any time
the highlighting failed, Navigator's code would die silently because it's
considered and IDE stack by the IDE. It didn't throw visible errors, but it
means that any code after that doesn't get executed, so I fixed it to the
way it was originally: if you select "the topstack" on the Target
(crosshair) menu, Navigator will display whatever is frontmost in Livecode,
and match highlights.

I added this, in case you are talking about highlights:
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/32

If that's not what you're talking about, let me know.

thanks,

gc


From chipsm at themartinz.com  Wed Jan 30 13:40:34 2019
From: chipsm at themartinz.com (chipsm at themartinz.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:40:34 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtot=WS9sHm7grGk_Uzn=OVp4-OuE=2qUCbEF_3oUjb6=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>
	<CAKCLKtot=WS9sHm7grGk_Uzn=OVp4-OuE=2qUCbEF_3oUjb6=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07fe01d4b8cb$497233c0$dc569b40$@themartinz.com>

I created a video for you to see but it is being check by the LiveCode list
admin for content because of its size.
Here is a link to my OneDrive folder containing the video:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmMnOdWPxdzK6jkkp3Kn8m7HIwm_
You can download and view it from there. I hoe this explains my comments.

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:31 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:09 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ji Geoff,
> I am responding to you 7.3rc1 and this is probably true about the 
> other releases too.
> I noticed that if I open a group in a New Navigator window, the first 
> Navigator window has lost control over the group that precipitated it.
> The new Navigator Window Group items don't respond to any items that 
> are clicked or highlighted.
> Also, if I open a group for editing, the Navigator window does not 
> respond to any items that are clicked or highlighted in the Group Edit
window.
> I can live with this now that I know  about this behavior, but I don't 
> know if anyone has pointed this out to you.
>

I'm not sure what you mean by "lost control". I followed these steps:

1. Created a Livecode window, added three buttons, and grouped them.
2. Opened Navigator. It shows the stack, the card, the group, and the three
buttons.
3. Right-click on the group in Navigator, and select "Browse Controls" on
the popup menu. Navigator shows the stack, the group, and the buttons.
4. Right-click the first button in Navigator and select Rename... on the
popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename the button.
5. Right-click the group in Navigator and select Open in New Navigator on
the popup menu. Navigator opens a new window showing the same controls.
6. In the new Navigator, right-click the second button and select Rename...
on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename the
button.
7. In the original Navigator, right-click the third button and select
Rename... on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully
rename the button.

So Navigator still knows what controls it's supposed to display, displays
them, and works with them.

Wait -- do you mean highlighting? As in, select controls in Navigator, and
they become selected in Livecode, and vice versa? If so, that was originally
a function of Navigator displaying "this card of the topstack"
because it's impossible to select controls in a card that isn't being
displayed. At some point there was a bug in Navigator where the code was
trying to match highlights for anything displayed in Navigator. Any time the
highlighting failed, Navigator's code would die silently because it's
considered and IDE stack by the IDE. It didn't throw visible errors, but it
means that any code after that doesn't get executed, so I fixed it to the
way it was originally: if you select "the topstack" on the Target
(crosshair) menu, Navigator will display whatever is frontmost in Livecode,
and match highlights.

I added this, in case you are talking about highlights:
https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/32

If that's not what you're talking about, let me know.

thanks,

gc
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bogdanoff at me.com  Wed Jan 30 14:17:19 2019
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 11:17:19 -0800
Subject: Woo License Keys Manager
In-Reply-To: <09530964-33C0-4D0F-9DE9-242686EDDEEA@m-r-d.de>
References: <0A3F24CA-8F14-4580-BCC2-A4B010F00560@gmail.com>
	<8DBF58CE-A71B-4F6E-AA61-087CDB9783F5@m-r-d.de>
	<09530964-33C0-4D0F-9DE9-242686EDDEEA@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <03CEE8A5-F316-4BCE-8256-E024F0F70418@me.com>

For our "Music In the Air? music education program we?re using a combo of Stripe/Paypal + WooCommerce + API Manager. The last bit is a WooCommerce plugin to handle generating and validation of keys. In our particular situation we need to control the installations to a set number (1 to how many were purchased) and API Manager validates the install every time our application is opened. We?ve configured WooCommerce to send a confirmation email to the purchaser that includes the key issued by API Manager along with a download link. There also is an online WooCommerce-provided account for the user to log in to view keys and purchase info.

https://woocommerce.com/products/woocommerce-api-manager/ <https://woocommerce.com/products/woocommerce-api-manager/>

Overall it is working pretty well. It took some time to set up my internal LiveCode programming, but that was because of a variety of license types we use with free trial periods, and the fact that we are also using a subscription model, and not because of any difficulty with API Manager itself. Also there was some work in providing info within the application to the user as to the status of the validation (good, failed?and why?and what to do).

And a plug?we have a free trial of the complete program that reverts to a forever-free limited version. Take a look; I am very interested in feedback!

https://www.artsinteractiveinc.com <https://www.artsinteractiveinc.com/>

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive



> On Jan 30, 2019, at 3:07 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> What i forgot. The good thing is also that i do not have to hassle with invoices because Fastspring is the seller and therefore FS is doing all that stuff including correct VAT handling.
> I just get my monthly payments.
> 
> 
> Matthias Rebbe
> 
> free tools for Livecoders:
> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/> <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/ <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>>
> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/> <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/ <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>>
> 
>> Am 30.01.2019 um 12:05 schrieb Matthias Rebbe <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de <mailto:matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> <mailto:matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de <mailto:matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de>>>:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> i am using Zygodact from Jacqueline Landman-Gay - http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html>
>> 
>> with Livecode Server and Fastspring. After a successful order Fastspring contacts my Livecode Server and transmits the purchase information.
>> My LC Server script then creates a License Key which works only with the E-Mail address of the buyer and returns it to Fastsrpring. Fastspring then send this information to the buyer.
>> 
>> Zygodact works very well with Livecode Server
>> 
>> I?ve written Livecode lesson about how to use Zygodact and LC Server with Fastspring. See here
>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4068/l/620020-using-zygodact-key-generator-with-fastspring <http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4068/l/620020-using-zygodact-key-generator-with-fastspring>
>> 
>> Works for some years now w/o a problem.
>> 
>> 
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> 
>> free tools for Livecoders:
>> https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
>> https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
>> 
>>> Am 30.01.2019 um 11:28 schrieb David V Glasgow via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>> 
>>> Does anyone use the above for managing keys on their LC apps?  If so, are you happy with it?  
>>> 
>>> Conversely, anyone recommend any other solutions, whether just license management, or complete ecommece?
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> David Glasgow
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>>
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 14:38:08 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 11:38:08 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <07fe01d4b8cb$497233c0$dc569b40$@themartinz.com>
References: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>
	<CAKCLKtot=WS9sHm7grGk_Uzn=OVp4-OuE=2qUCbEF_3oUjb6=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<07fe01d4b8cb$497233c0$dc569b40$@themartinz.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtrXsQ=MetmNCn85_uA44h+DxGOuoSyxuJnW+GsVdHd-dA@mail.gmail.com>

Yep, that's exactly what I said -- when you open in a new Navigator, the
target is a specific container (a group in this case). Under those
circumstances Navigator doesn't try to select controls in Livecode, or
mimic Livecode's selections, because the group might not be visible or
selectable. Like I said in the bug, I'll add a setting and protection for
Navigator to try to mimic anyway


On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 10:40 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I created a video for you to see but it is being check by the LiveCode list
> admin for content because of its size.
> Here is a link to my OneDrive folder containing the video:
> https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmMnOdWPxdzK6jkkp3Kn8m7HIwm_
> You can download and view it from there. I hoe this explains my comments.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Clarence Martin
> Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
> Cell: 626 696-5561
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
> Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:31 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:09 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Ji Geoff,
> > I am responding to you 7.3rc1 and this is probably true about the
> > other releases too.
> > I noticed that if I open a group in a New Navigator window, the first
> > Navigator window has lost control over the group that precipitated it.
> > The new Navigator Window Group items don't respond to any items that
> > are clicked or highlighted.
> > Also, if I open a group for editing, the Navigator window does not
> > respond to any items that are clicked or highlighted in the Group Edit
> window.
> > I can live with this now that I know  about this behavior, but I don't
> > know if anyone has pointed this out to you.
> >
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "lost control". I followed these steps:
>
> 1. Created a Livecode window, added three buttons, and grouped them.
> 2. Opened Navigator. It shows the stack, the card, the group, and the three
> buttons.
> 3. Right-click on the group in Navigator, and select "Browse Controls" on
> the popup menu. Navigator shows the stack, the group, and the buttons.
> 4. Right-click the first button in Navigator and select Rename... on the
> popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename the
> button.
> 5. Right-click the group in Navigator and select Open in New Navigator on
> the popup menu. Navigator opens a new window showing the same controls.
> 6. In the new Navigator, right-click the second button and select Rename...
> on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename the
> button.
> 7. In the original Navigator, right-click the third button and select
> Rename... on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully
> rename the button.
>
> So Navigator still knows what controls it's supposed to display, displays
> them, and works with them.
>
> Wait -- do you mean highlighting? As in, select controls in Navigator, and
> they become selected in Livecode, and vice versa? If so, that was
> originally
> a function of Navigator displaying "this card of the topstack"
> because it's impossible to select controls in a card that isn't being
> displayed. At some point there was a bug in Navigator where the code was
> trying to match highlights for anything displayed in Navigator. Any time
> the
> highlighting failed, Navigator's code would die silently because it's
> considered and IDE stack by the IDE. It didn't throw visible errors, but it
> means that any code after that doesn't get executed, so I fixed it to the
> way it was originally: if you select "the topstack" on the Target
> (crosshair) menu, Navigator will display whatever is frontmost in Livecode,
> and match highlights.
>
> I added this, in case you are talking about highlights:
> https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/32
>
> If that's not what you're talking about, let me know.
>
> thanks,
>
> gc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From chipsm at themartinz.com  Wed Jan 30 14:49:45 2019
From: chipsm at themartinz.com (chipsm at themartinz.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 11:49:45 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtrXsQ=MetmNCn85_uA44h+DxGOuoSyxuJnW+GsVdHd-dA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>	<CAKCLKtot=WS9sHm7grGk_Uzn=OVp4-OuE=2qUCbEF_3oUjb6=g@mail.gmail.com>	<07fe01d4b8cb$497233c0$dc569b40$@themartinz.com>
	<CAKCLKtrXsQ=MetmNCn85_uA44h+DxGOuoSyxuJnW+GsVdHd-dA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002a01d4b8d4$f363ab80$da2b0280$@themartinz.com>

Sorry I didn't understand what you were saying. 
Thanks for the reply.
I really like the Pug-in and it's great.

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:38 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available

Yep, that's exactly what I said -- when you open in a new Navigator, the
target is a specific container (a group in this case). Under those
circumstances Navigator doesn't try to select controls in Livecode, or mimic
Livecode's selections, because the group might not be visible or selectable.
Like I said in the bug, I'll add a setting and protection for Navigator to
try to mimic anyway


On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 10:40 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I created a video for you to see but it is being check by the LiveCode 
> list admin for content because of its size.
> Here is a link to my OneDrive folder containing the video:
> https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmMnOdWPxdzK6jkkp3Kn8m7HIwm_
> You can download and view it from there. I hoe this explains my comments.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Clarence Martin
> Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
> Cell: 626 696-5561
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf 
> Of Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:31 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:09 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Ji Geoff,
> > I am responding to you 7.3rc1 and this is probably true about the 
> > other releases too.
> > I noticed that if I open a group in a New Navigator window, the 
> > first Navigator window has lost control over the group that precipitated
it.
> > The new Navigator Window Group items don't respond to any items that 
> > are clicked or highlighted.
> > Also, if I open a group for editing, the Navigator window does not 
> > respond to any items that are clicked or highlighted in the Group 
> > Edit
> window.
> > I can live with this now that I know  about this behavior, but I 
> > don't know if anyone has pointed this out to you.
> >
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "lost control". I followed these steps:
>
> 1. Created a Livecode window, added three buttons, and grouped them.
> 2. Opened Navigator. It shows the stack, the card, the group, and the 
> three buttons.
> 3. Right-click on the group in Navigator, and select "Browse Controls" 
> on the popup menu. Navigator shows the stack, the group, and the buttons.
> 4. Right-click the first button in Navigator and select Rename... on 
> the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename 
> the button.
> 5. Right-click the group in Navigator and select Open in New Navigator 
> on the popup menu. Navigator opens a new window showing the same controls.
> 6. In the new Navigator, right-click the second button and select
Rename...
> on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully 
> rename the button.
> 7. In the original Navigator, right-click the third button and select 
> Rename... on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I 
> successfully rename the button.
>
> So Navigator still knows what controls it's supposed to display, 
> displays them, and works with them.
>
> Wait -- do you mean highlighting? As in, select controls in Navigator, 
> and they become selected in Livecode, and vice versa? If so, that was 
> originally a function of Navigator displaying "this card of the 
> topstack"
> because it's impossible to select controls in a card that isn't being 
> displayed. At some point there was a bug in Navigator where the code 
> was trying to match highlights for anything displayed in Navigator. 
> Any time the highlighting failed, Navigator's code would die silently 
> because it's considered and IDE stack by the IDE. It didn't throw 
> visible errors, but it means that any code after that doesn't get 
> executed, so I fixed it to the way it was originally: if you select 
> "the topstack" on the Target
> (crosshair) menu, Navigator will display whatever is frontmost in 
> Livecode, and match highlights.
>
> I added this, in case you are talking about highlights:
> https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/32
>
> If that's not what you're talking about, let me know.
>
> thanks,
>
> gc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From chipsm at themartinz.com  Wed Jan 30 15:26:12 2019
From: chipsm at themartinz.com (chipsm at themartinz.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 12:26:12 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtrXsQ=MetmNCn85_uA44h+DxGOuoSyxuJnW+GsVdHd-dA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>	<CAKCLKtot=WS9sHm7grGk_Uzn=OVp4-OuE=2qUCbEF_3oUjb6=g@mail.gmail.com>	<07fe01d4b8cb$497233c0$dc569b40$@themartinz.com>
	<CAKCLKtrXsQ=MetmNCn85_uA44h+DxGOuoSyxuJnW+GsVdHd-dA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004a01d4b8da$0b19d290$214d77b0$@themartinz.com>

Will the update allow you to use Navigator to work in the Group Edit Window?

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:38 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available

Yep, that's exactly what I said -- when you open in a new Navigator, the
target is a specific container (a group in this case). Under those
circumstances Navigator doesn't try to select controls in Livecode, or mimic
Livecode's selections, because the group might not be visible or selectable.
Like I said in the bug, I'll add a setting and protection for Navigator to
try to mimic anyway


On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 10:40 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I created a video for you to see but it is being check by the LiveCode 
> list admin for content because of its size.
> Here is a link to my OneDrive folder containing the video:
> https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmMnOdWPxdzK6jkkp3Kn8m7HIwm_
> You can download and view it from there. I hoe this explains my comments.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Clarence Martin
> Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
> Cell: 626 696-5561
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf 
> Of Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:31 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:09 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Ji Geoff,
> > I am responding to you 7.3rc1 and this is probably true about the 
> > other releases too.
> > I noticed that if I open a group in a New Navigator window, the 
> > first Navigator window has lost control over the group that precipitated
it.
> > The new Navigator Window Group items don't respond to any items that 
> > are clicked or highlighted.
> > Also, if I open a group for editing, the Navigator window does not 
> > respond to any items that are clicked or highlighted in the Group 
> > Edit
> window.
> > I can live with this now that I know  about this behavior, but I 
> > don't know if anyone has pointed this out to you.
> >
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "lost control". I followed these steps:
>
> 1. Created a Livecode window, added three buttons, and grouped them.
> 2. Opened Navigator. It shows the stack, the card, the group, and the 
> three buttons.
> 3. Right-click on the group in Navigator, and select "Browse Controls" 
> on the popup menu. Navigator shows the stack, the group, and the buttons.
> 4. Right-click the first button in Navigator and select Rename... on 
> the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename 
> the button.
> 5. Right-click the group in Navigator and select Open in New Navigator 
> on the popup menu. Navigator opens a new window showing the same controls.
> 6. In the new Navigator, right-click the second button and select
Rename...
> on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully 
> rename the button.
> 7. In the original Navigator, right-click the third button and select 
> Rename... on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I 
> successfully rename the button.
>
> So Navigator still knows what controls it's supposed to display, 
> displays them, and works with them.
>
> Wait -- do you mean highlighting? As in, select controls in Navigator, 
> and they become selected in Livecode, and vice versa? If so, that was 
> originally a function of Navigator displaying "this card of the 
> topstack"
> because it's impossible to select controls in a card that isn't being 
> displayed. At some point there was a bug in Navigator where the code 
> was trying to match highlights for anything displayed in Navigator. 
> Any time the highlighting failed, Navigator's code would die silently 
> because it's considered and IDE stack by the IDE. It didn't throw 
> visible errors, but it means that any code after that doesn't get 
> executed, so I fixed it to the way it was originally: if you select 
> "the topstack" on the Target
> (crosshair) menu, Navigator will display whatever is frontmost in 
> Livecode, and match highlights.
>
> I added this, in case you are talking about highlights:
> https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/32
>
> If that's not what you're talking about, let me know.
>
> thanks,
>
> gc
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From gcanyon at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 16:17:10 2019
From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:17:10 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <004a01d4b8da$0b19d290$214d77b0$@themartinz.com>
References: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>
	<CAKCLKtot=WS9sHm7grGk_Uzn=OVp4-OuE=2qUCbEF_3oUjb6=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<07fe01d4b8cb$497233c0$dc569b40$@themartinz.com>
	<CAKCLKtrXsQ=MetmNCn85_uA44h+DxGOuoSyxuJnW+GsVdHd-dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<004a01d4b8da$0b19d290$214d77b0$@themartinz.com>
Message-ID: <CAKCLKtoctFDwRtPBz9F9h8K1wn9SwL1YXrxdNDYfBRTigdggLA@mail.gmail.com>

Most (almost all) of Navigator has nothing to do with the actual selection
of controls in Livecode. So the second window is working fine -- just
select whatever controls you want to work with in the list, and then
everything Navigator does, you can do -- change their properties in
Navigator, edit their script (or behavior script) etc. You can also do
things like open Livecode's property palette for a control or set of
controls -- just select them in the list, and then select Single Object
Inspector or Individual Object Inspectors on the Properties ("P") menu.

If that's not clear, what are you looking to do?

gc

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 12:26 PM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Will the update allow you to use Navigator to work in the Group Edit
> Window?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Clarence Martin
> Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
> Cell: 626 696-5561
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
> Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:38 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
>
> Yep, that's exactly what I said -- when you open in a new Navigator, the
> target is a specific container (a group in this case). Under those
> circumstances Navigator doesn't try to select controls in Livecode, or
> mimic
> Livecode's selections, because the group might not be visible or
> selectable.
> Like I said in the bug, I'll add a setting and protection for Navigator to
> try to mimic anyway
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 10:40 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I created a video for you to see but it is being check by the LiveCode
> > list admin for content because of its size.
> > Here is a link to my OneDrive folder containing the video:
> > https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmMnOdWPxdzK6jkkp3Kn8m7HIwm_
> > You can download and view it from there. I hoe this explains my comments.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Clarence Martin
> > Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
> > Cell: 626 696-5561
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf
> > Of Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:31 AM
> > To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> > Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:09 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Ji Geoff,
> > > I am responding to you 7.3rc1 and this is probably true about the
> > > other releases too.
> > > I noticed that if I open a group in a New Navigator window, the
> > > first Navigator window has lost control over the group that
> precipitated
> it.
> > > The new Navigator Window Group items don't respond to any items that
> > > are clicked or highlighted.
> > > Also, if I open a group for editing, the Navigator window does not
> > > respond to any items that are clicked or highlighted in the Group
> > > Edit
> > window.
> > > I can live with this now that I know  about this behavior, but I
> > > don't know if anyone has pointed this out to you.
> > >
> >
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "lost control". I followed these steps:
> >
> > 1. Created a Livecode window, added three buttons, and grouped them.
> > 2. Opened Navigator. It shows the stack, the card, the group, and the
> > three buttons.
> > 3. Right-click on the group in Navigator, and select "Browse Controls"
> > on the popup menu. Navigator shows the stack, the group, and the buttons.
> > 4. Right-click the first button in Navigator and select Rename... on
> > the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename
> > the button.
> > 5. Right-click the group in Navigator and select Open in New Navigator
> > on the popup menu. Navigator opens a new window showing the same
> controls.
> > 6. In the new Navigator, right-click the second button and select
> Rename...
> > on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully
> > rename the button.
> > 7. In the original Navigator, right-click the third button and select
> > Rename... on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I
> > successfully rename the button.
> >
> > So Navigator still knows what controls it's supposed to display,
> > displays them, and works with them.
> >
> > Wait -- do you mean highlighting? As in, select controls in Navigator,
> > and they become selected in Livecode, and vice versa? If so, that was
> > originally a function of Navigator displaying "this card of the
> > topstack"
> > because it's impossible to select controls in a card that isn't being
> > displayed. At some point there was a bug in Navigator where the code
> > was trying to match highlights for anything displayed in Navigator.
> > Any time the highlighting failed, Navigator's code would die silently
> > because it's considered and IDE stack by the IDE. It didn't throw
> > visible errors, but it means that any code after that doesn't get
> > executed, so I fixed it to the way it was originally: if you select
> > "the topstack" on the Target
> > (crosshair) menu, Navigator will display whatever is frontmost in
> > Livecode, and match highlights.
> >
> > I added this, in case you are talking about highlights:
> > https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/32
> >
> > If that's not what you're talking about, let me know.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > gc
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From chipsm at themartinz.com  Wed Jan 30 17:45:56 2019
From: chipsm at themartinz.com (chipsm at themartinz.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:45:56 -0800
Subject: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAKCLKtoctFDwRtPBz9F9h8K1wn9SwL1YXrxdNDYfBRTigdggLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <06b401d4b89c$f86aba20$e9402e60$@themartinz.com>	<CAKCLKtot=WS9sHm7grGk_Uzn=OVp4-OuE=2qUCbEF_3oUjb6=g@mail.gmail.com>	<07fe01d4b8cb$497233c0$dc569b40$@themartinz.com>	<CAKCLKtrXsQ=MetmNCn85_uA44h+DxGOuoSyxuJnW+GsVdHd-dA@mail.gmail.com>	<004a01d4b8da$0b19d290$214d77b0$@themartinz.com>
	<CAKCLKtoctFDwRtPBz9F9h8K1wn9SwL1YXrxdNDYfBRTigdggLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006601d4b8ed$91562990$b4027cb0$@themartinz.com>

No, I am cool with things the way they are. I am busy concentrating on my
project that I am developing. 
So Navigator works fine for me now. I look forward to any improvements that
you come up with.

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 1:17 PM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available

Most (almost all) of Navigator has nothing to do with the actual selection
of controls in Livecode. So the second window is working fine -- just select
whatever controls you want to work with in the list, and then everything
Navigator does, you can do -- change their properties in Navigator, edit
their script (or behavior script) etc. You can also do things like open
Livecode's property palette for a control or set of controls -- just select
them in the list, and then select Single Object Inspector or Individual
Object Inspectors on the Properties ("P") menu.

If that's not clear, what are you looking to do?

gc

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 12:26 PM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Will the update allow you to use Navigator to work in the Group Edit 
> Window?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Clarence Martin
> Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
> Cell: 626 696-5561
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf 
> Of Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:38 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
>
> Yep, that's exactly what I said -- when you open in a new Navigator, 
> the target is a specific container (a group in this case). Under those 
> circumstances Navigator doesn't try to select controls in Livecode, or 
> mimic Livecode's selections, because the group might not be visible or 
> selectable.
> Like I said in the bug, I'll add a setting and protection for 
> Navigator to try to mimic anyway
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 10:40 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I created a video for you to see but it is being check by the 
> > LiveCode list admin for content because of its size.
> > Here is a link to my OneDrive folder containing the video:
> > https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmMnOdWPxdzK6jkkp3Kn8m7HIwm_
> > You can download and view it from there. I hoe this explains my
comments.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Clarence Martin
> > Email: Chipsm at themartinz.com
> > Cell: 626 696-5561
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf 
> > Of Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:31 AM
> > To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> > Cc: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Navigator 7.3rc1 is available
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:09 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode < 
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Ji Geoff,
> > > I am responding to you 7.3rc1 and this is probably true about the 
> > > other releases too.
> > > I noticed that if I open a group in a New Navigator window, the 
> > > first Navigator window has lost control over the group that
> precipitated
> it.
> > > The new Navigator Window Group items don't respond to any items 
> > > that are clicked or highlighted.
> > > Also, if I open a group for editing, the Navigator window does not 
> > > respond to any items that are clicked or highlighted in the Group 
> > > Edit
> > window.
> > > I can live with this now that I know  about this behavior, but I 
> > > don't know if anyone has pointed this out to you.
> > >
> >
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "lost control". I followed these steps:
> >
> > 1. Created a Livecode window, added three buttons, and grouped them.
> > 2. Opened Navigator. It shows the stack, the card, the group, and 
> > the three buttons.
> > 3. Right-click on the group in Navigator, and select "Browse Controls"
> > on the popup menu. Navigator shows the stack, the group, and the
buttons.
> > 4. Right-click the first button in Navigator and select Rename... on 
> > the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully rename 
> > the button.
> > 5. Right-click the group in Navigator and select Open in New 
> > Navigator on the popup menu. Navigator opens a new window showing 
> > the same
> controls.
> > 6. In the new Navigator, right-click the second button and select
> Rename...
> > on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I successfully 
> > rename the button.
> > 7. In the original Navigator, right-click the third button and 
> > select Rename... on the popup menu. Navigator opens the dialog and I 
> > successfully rename the button.
> >
> > So Navigator still knows what controls it's supposed to display, 
> > displays them, and works with them.
> >
> > Wait -- do you mean highlighting? As in, select controls in 
> > Navigator, and they become selected in Livecode, and vice versa? If 
> > so, that was originally a function of Navigator displaying "this 
> > card of the topstack"
> > because it's impossible to select controls in a card that isn't 
> > being displayed. At some point there was a bug in Navigator where 
> > the code was trying to match highlights for anything displayed in
Navigator.
> > Any time the highlighting failed, Navigator's code would die 
> > silently because it's considered and IDE stack by the IDE. It didn't 
> > throw visible errors, but it means that any code after that doesn't 
> > get executed, so I fixed it to the way it was originally: if you 
> > select "the topstack" on the Target
> > (crosshair) menu, Navigator will display whatever is frontmost in 
> > Livecode, and match highlights.
> >
> > I added this, in case you are talking about highlights:
> > https://github.com/gcanyon/navigator/issues/32
> >
> > If that's not what you're talking about, let me know.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > gc
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jan 30 18:16:18 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 17:16:18 -0600
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
Message-ID: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>

Has anyone found a workaround for this (very old) bug:
<https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12419>

It isn't currently possible to implement a swipe on mobile if the swipe 
gesture is over a native scroller. LC doesn't send a mouseUp or a 
touchEnd message.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Jan 30 18:49:12 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:49:12 +0000
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>

Not much of a workaround I'm afraid, but for a recent app (iOS and Android) I got rid of the native scroller and used the touch messages to both scroll the object and detect the swipes.

Terry...

On 31/1/19, 10:16 am, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    Has anyone found a workaround for this (very old) bug:
    <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12419>
    
    It isn't currently possible to implement a swipe on mobile if the swipe 
    gesture is over a native scroller. LC doesn't send a mouseUp or a 
    touchEnd message.
    
    -- 
    Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
    HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
    
    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    
    


From hh at hyperhh.de  Wed Jan 30 19:37:08 2019
From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 01:37:08 +0100
Subject: timeLapseCamera6789
Message-ID: <8853113D-1D83-4B50-B8EC-521E08681431@hyperhh.de>


The stack TimelapseCamera works with all editions of LC 6/7/8/9 on Mac/Win/linux and on Raspi 2/3 (with LC 651 and 704)

Download timeLapseCamera6789_v105 from "Sample Stacks" or
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/928/

TimelapseCamera lets you ...

* select one of the (web-)cameras attached to your machine.
* set an interval of 5 to 86400 seconds.
* set an imageSize (set the width to scale proportional).
* select to see a preview.
* select to start the timelapse (saving the snapshots).

Of course you can have snapshots from different cameras at (roughly) the same time by running renamed copies of the stack in different folders.

Then the snapshots are made at the given time intervals and saved to a folder "CAM" in the stack's folder.

This is done by non-LC utilities. They could run in the temporary folder but I save them to the stack's folder so that they are easier to find for you.

License MIT (due to the utilities).




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jan 31 00:17:01 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:17:01 -0600
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>

Thanks, I was afraid of that. I'll see if I can bump the bug report for 
attention.

On 1/30/19 5:49 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
> Not much of a workaround I'm afraid, but for a recent app (iOS and Android) I got rid of the native scroller and used the touch messages to both scroll the object and detect the swipes.
> 
> Terry...
> 
> On 31/1/19, 10:16 am, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>      Has anyone found a workaround for this (very old) bug:
>      <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12419>
>      
>      It isn't currently possible to implement a swipe on mobile if the swipe
>      gesture is over a native scroller. LC doesn't send a mouseUp or a
>      touchEnd message.
>      


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From th.douez at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 02:07:42 2019
From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:07:42 +0100
Subject: sysError values...
In-Reply-To: <76D9BD97-B5A4-4F54-8142-EE9DCE0F3899@iotecdigital.com>
References: <92505a94-cc8c-8f1b-624b-a42f0a5a46d1@researchware.com>
	<049E4E37-94F5-4546-9B91-C79686D4845E@iotecdigital.com>
	<03e6d10c-c1f2-e7f5-a672-aa206d8e70cc@researchware.com>
	<76D9BD97-B5A4-4F54-8142-EE9DCE0F3899@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8ucO7M-S=_tg3WCA-OQ1kp3vtJgHh3JmjR4TYe6LvmkhBycw@mail.gmail.com>

Here is another place for MacOS system errors:

https://www.macheat.com/general-error-codes-for-os-x

most probably doesn't list all errors...

Thierry Douez
 sunny-tdz.com


From toolbook at kestner.de  Thu Jan 31 05:14:20 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:14:20 +0100
Subject: failing snapshot when system textsize > 100%
Message-ID: <001701d4b94d$bc12dc40$343894c0$@kestner.de>

Hello,

working with LC 9.0.2 on windows 10

I take snapshots of parts of my stack, which works fine as long as the
system display setting is set to 100% text size.

When you set the system text size to > 100% the export snapshot function
grabs wrong rectangles (which are located topleft to the wanted rect).

I tried to use globalLoc(), without success, it still grabs a wrong (but
other as in case 1) rect topleft of the target rect. I tried to add the
stack location coords to the target rect, but that's too much.

I know there must be any parameter to get the system text scale, but I
didn't found it yet (it's really hard, if you have no idea, how the property
could be named). Perhaps I can scale my rect by this system text scale
factor? Or does anybody knows any other property or function I could use to
shift my export snapshot rect to the correct target?

Thanks for any ideas

Tiemo

 

 



From toolbook at kestner.de  Thu Jan 31 05:44:02 2019
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:44:02 +0100
Subject: AW: failing snapshot when system textsize > 100%
In-Reply-To: <001701d4b94d$bc12dc40$343894c0$@kestner.de>
References: <001701d4b94d$bc12dc40$343894c0$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <000001d4b951$e240e3e0$a6c2aba0$@kestner.de>

Solved!
When you change the system text size on windows, you have to restart the
machine. Without restart the windows are already resized, but some programs
like LC don't get the new system parameter to work with. E.g. the
systemPixelScale only gets updated after a restart. After a restart the
globalLoc() also gets the correct rect - good to know.
Thanks for listening
Tiemo


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2019 11:14
An: LiveCode User Liste senden <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de>
Betreff: failing snapshot when system textsize > 100%

Hello,

working with LC 9.0.2 on windows 10

I take snapshots of parts of my stack, which works fine as long as the
system display setting is set to 100% text size.

When you set the system text size to > 100% the export snapshot function
grabs wrong rectangles (which are located topleft to the wanted rect).

I tried to use globalLoc(), without success, it still grabs a wrong (but
other as in case 1) rect topleft of the target rect. I tried to add the
stack location coords to the target rect, but that's too much.

I know there must be any parameter to get the system text scale, but I
didn't found it yet (it's really hard, if you have no idea, how the property
could be named). Perhaps I can scale my rect by this system text scale
factor? Or does anybody knows any other property or function I could use to
shift my export snapshot rect to the correct target?

Thanks for any ideas

Tiemo

 

 

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Jan 31 08:10:40 2019
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:10:40 -0500
Subject: AW: failing snapshot when system textsize > 100%
In-Reply-To: <000001d4b951$e240e3e0$a6c2aba0$@kestner.de>
References: <001701d4b94d$bc12dc40$343894c0$@kestner.de>
	<000001d4b951$e240e3e0$a6c2aba0$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <c2d632a7-eaf9-657c-3fee-64af851fd4fa@researchware.com>

This seems like a bug (that a restart is required) and should probably 
be reported to the LiveCode Quality Center as a bug?


On 1/31/2019 5:44 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote:
> Solved!
> When you change the system text size on windows, you have to restart the
> machine. Without restart the windows are already resized, but some programs
> like LC don't get the new system parameter to work with. E.g. the
> systemPixelScale only gets updated after a restart. After a restart the
> globalLoc() also gets the correct rect - good to know.
> Thanks for listening
> Tiemo
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
> von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2019 11:14
> An: LiveCode User Liste senden <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de>
> Betreff: failing snapshot when system textsize > 100%
>
> Hello,
>
> working with LC 9.0.2 on windows 10
>
> I take snapshots of parts of my stack, which works fine as long as the
> system display setting is set to 100% text size.
>
> When you set the system text size to > 100% the export snapshot function
> grabs wrong rectangles (which are located topleft to the wanted rect).
>
> I tried to use globalLoc(), without success, it still grabs a wrong (but
> other as in case 1) rect topleft of the target rect. I tried to add the
> stack location coords to the target rect, but that's too much.
>
> I know there must be any parameter to get the system text scale, but I
> didn't found it yet (it's really hard, if you have no idea, how the property
> could be named). Perhaps I can scale my rect by this system text scale
> factor? Or does anybody knows any other property or function I could use to
> shift my export snapshot rect to the correct target?
>
> Thanks for any ideas
>
> Tiemo
>
>   
>
>   
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>




From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Jan 31 08:18:52 2019
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 13:18:52 +0000
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>

Did you try Terry script? Elanor did something similar this in the Listen module, it not very refined. Terry put time in it with subtle time parameters. I have yet to try it. It here on the list 

Terry, do we have a place for a repository for code snippits? Maybe you can put in on the forum.

I don't think  you are going to get response to the bug problem. I have been trying to get smooth scrolling for 3 years!  I think it is more a question of something deep in the engine that "can't be done", at least not cross platform. Otherwise they would have responded by now.

Here's Terry code from Dec. 20...Terry.... have improved it?

===========
Terry:
So, it seems like this approach works ok. Turned out there was an addition complication in that the items in my scrolling list are also selectable and I needed to prevent them being toggled on or off during a left/right swipe action. Anyway, this is what I ended up doing...

In the card script...

local pLoc, pTime, pV, pScroll

on touchStart pTouchID
   put the mouseLoc into pLoc
   put the millisecs into pTime
   put the scroll of grp "checkList" into pScroll
   put the mouseV into pV
end touchStart

on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchX, pTouchY
   put pV-pTouchY into tY
   put pScroll+tY into tScroll
   set the scroll of grp "checkList" to tScroll
end touchMove

on touchEnd pTouchID
   put the mouseLoc into pLoc1
   put (item 1 of pLoc)-(item 1 of pLoc1) into tX
   put (item 2 of pLoc)-(item 2 of pLoc1) into tY
   put the millisecs - pTime into tElapsed
   if abs(tX)>100 then # horizontal swipe
      if abs(tY)< 50 then # small vertical movement
         if tElapsed < 500 then # not too slow
            if tX > 0 then
               send "mouseUp" to grp "nextBtn"
            else
               send "mouseUp" to grp "backBtn"
            end if
         end if
      end if
   end if
end touchEnd

And in the "checklist" script...

local pX

on mouseDown
   put the mouseH into pX
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
   if abs((the mouseH)-pX) > 50 then exit mouseUp
   # list selection code
end mouseUp

BR
 

?On 1/30/19, 7:17 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    Thanks, I was afraid of that. I'll see if I can bump the bug report for 
    attention.
    
    On 1/30/19 5:49 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
    >Not much of a workaround I'm afraid, but for a recent app (iOS and Android) I got rid of the native scroller and used the touch messages to both scroll the object and detect the swipes.
    >Terry...


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jan 31 12:03:41 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:03:41 -0600
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

That's similar to the handlers I'm using but they all fail because no 
mouseUp or touchEnd messages are ever sent if you are over a native 
scroller. The issue isn't with the calculations, it's because the app is 
never informed thar the swipe has completed.

I'll try fiddling with touchMove again, but the message isn't sent 
consistently on slow hardware and sometimes fails.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 31, 2019 7:20:38 AM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Did you try Terry script? Elanor did something similar this in the Listen 
> module, it not very refined. Terry put time in it with subtle time 
> parameters. I have yet to try it. It here on the list
>
> Terry, do we have a place for a repository for code snippits? Maybe you can 
> put in on the forum.
>
> I don't think  you are going to get response to the bug problem. I have 
> been trying to get smooth scrolling for 3 years!  I think it is more a 
> question of something deep in the engine that "can't be done", at least not 
> cross platform. Otherwise they would have responded by now.
>
> Here's Terry code from Dec. 20...Terry.... have improved it?
>
> ===========
> Terry:
> So, it seems like this approach works ok. Turned out there was an addition 
> complication in that the items in my scrolling list are also selectable and 
> I needed to prevent them being toggled on or off during a left/right swipe 
> action. Anyway, this is what I ended up doing...
>
> In the card script...
>
> local pLoc, pTime, pV, pScroll
>
> on touchStart pTouchID
>   put the mouseLoc into pLoc
>   put the millisecs into pTime
>   put the scroll of grp "checkList" into pScroll
>   put the mouseV into pV
> end touchStart
>
> on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchX, pTouchY
>   put pV-pTouchY into tY
>   put pScroll+tY into tScroll
>   set the scroll of grp "checkList" to tScroll
> end touchMove
>
> on touchEnd pTouchID
>   put the mouseLoc into pLoc1
>   put (item 1 of pLoc)-(item 1 of pLoc1) into tX
>   put (item 2 of pLoc)-(item 2 of pLoc1) into tY
>   put the millisecs - pTime into tElapsed
>   if abs(tX)>100 then # horizontal swipe
>      if abs(tY)< 50 then # small vertical movement
>         if tElapsed < 500 then # not too slow
>            if tX > 0 then
>               send "mouseUp" to grp "nextBtn"
>            else
>               send "mouseUp" to grp "backBtn"
>            end if
>         end if
>      end if
>   end if
> end touchEnd
>
> And in the "checklist" script...
>
> local pX
>
> on mouseDown
>   put the mouseH into pX
> end mouseDown
>
> on mouseUp
>   if abs((the mouseH)-pX) > 50 then exit mouseUp
>   # list selection code
> end mouseUp
>
> BR
>
>
> ?On 1/30/19, 7:17 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via 
> use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>    Thanks, I was afraid of that. I'll see if I can bump the bug report for
>    attention.
>
>    On 1/30/19 5:49 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>> Not much of a workaround I'm afraid, but for a recent app (iOS and Android) 
>> I got rid of the native scroller and used the touch messages to both scroll 
>> the object and detect the swipes.
>> Terry...
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From jmac at consensustech.com  Thu Jan 31 12:41:35 2019
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:41:35 -0800
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>	<8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
	<168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <005701d4b98c$365d6f40$a3184dc0$@consensustech.com>

The only way I've been able to get swipe functionality with a native
scroller is to keep the native scroller narrower than the screen by enough
that someone swiping is able to easily start the swipe on the background.
I've found when people try to swipe and it doesn't work, they'll try again
starting closer to the edge of the screen.... which I can trap. 

Definitely not ideal but it's all I've been able to come up with since I
don't really want to have to code bounce, etc.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of J.
Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 9:04 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
Subject: Re: Swipe over native scroller

That's similar to the handlers I'm using but they all fail because no
mouseUp or touchEnd messages are ever sent if you are over a native
scroller. The issue isn't with the calculations, it's because the app is
never informed thar the swipe has completed.

I'll try fiddling with touchMove again, but the message isn't sent
consistently on slow hardware and sometimes fails.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com On January 31, 2019 7:20:38 AM Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Did you try Terry script? Elanor did something similar this in the 
> Listen module, it not very refined. Terry put time in it with subtle 
> time parameters. I have yet to try it. It here on the list
>
> Terry, do we have a place for a repository for code snippits? Maybe 
> you can put in on the forum.
>
> I don't think  you are going to get response to the bug problem. I 
> have been trying to get smooth scrolling for 3 years!  I think it is 
> more a question of something deep in the engine that "can't be done", 
> at least not cross platform. Otherwise they would have responded by now.
>
> Here's Terry code from Dec. 20...Terry.... have improved it?
>
> ===========
> Terry:
> So, it seems like this approach works ok. Turned out there was an 
> addition complication in that the items in my scrolling list are also 
> selectable and I needed to prevent them being toggled on or off during 
> a left/right swipe action. Anyway, this is what I ended up doing...
>
> In the card script...
>
> local pLoc, pTime, pV, pScroll
>
> on touchStart pTouchID
>   put the mouseLoc into pLoc
>   put the millisecs into pTime
>   put the scroll of grp "checkList" into pScroll
>   put the mouseV into pV
> end touchStart
>
> on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchX, pTouchY
>   put pV-pTouchY into tY
>   put pScroll+tY into tScroll
>   set the scroll of grp "checkList" to tScroll end touchMove
>
> on touchEnd pTouchID
>   put the mouseLoc into pLoc1
>   put (item 1 of pLoc)-(item 1 of pLoc1) into tX
>   put (item 2 of pLoc)-(item 2 of pLoc1) into tY
>   put the millisecs - pTime into tElapsed
>   if abs(tX)>100 then # horizontal swipe
>      if abs(tY)< 50 then # small vertical movement
>         if tElapsed < 500 then # not too slow
>            if tX > 0 then
>               send "mouseUp" to grp "nextBtn"
>            else
>               send "mouseUp" to grp "backBtn"
>            end if
>         end if
>      end if
>   end if
> end touchEnd
>
> And in the "checklist" script...
>
> local pX
>
> on mouseDown
>   put the mouseH into pX
> end mouseDown
>
> on mouseUp
>   if abs((the mouseH)-pX) > 50 then exit mouseUp
>   # list selection code
> end mouseUp
>
> BR
>
>
> ?On 1/30/19, 7:17 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via 
> use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>    Thanks, I was afraid of that. I'll see if I can bump the bug report for
>    attention.
>
>    On 1/30/19 5:49 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>> Not much of a workaround I'm afraid, but for a recent app (iOS and 
>> Android) I got rid of the native scroller and used the touch messages 
>> to both scroll the object and detect the swipes.
>> Terry...
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From irog at mac.com  Thu Jan 31 12:43:33 2019
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 10:43:33 -0700
Subject: Shoutout to Bernd Niggeman
Message-ID: <F064873A-E86D-48E8-BB8E-53D0CC92ECAC@mac.com>

This is to praise Bernd for his TinyDictionary! Especially since I find the standard dictionary in LC V9 is next to useless!!

Find it here: http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/825/TinyDictionary

Thank you, Bernd!

Roger

From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com  Thu Jan 31 12:58:17 2019
From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 17:58:17 +0000
Subject: Shoutout to Bernd Niggeman
In-Reply-To: <F064873A-E86D-48E8-BB8E-53D0CC92ECAC@mac.com>
References: <F064873A-E86D-48E8-BB8E-53D0CC92ECAC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R9ph8EGPoBpJ1qw7RFCMhyOnxVvQRYw_b-KzoEYCWdN_A2Q@mail.gmail.com>

I second that. Thank you Bernd. :-)

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 17:44, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This is to praise Bernd for his TinyDictionary! Especially since I find
> the standard dictionary in LC V9 is next to useless!!
>
> Find it here: http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/825/TinyDictionary
>
> Thank you, Bernd!
>
> Roger
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Kaveh Bazargan
Director
River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalleytechnologies.com/> ? Twitter
<https://twitter.com/kaveh1000> ? LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jan 31 13:02:49 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 12:02:49 -0600
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <005701d4b98c$365d6f40$a3184dc0$@consensustech.com>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
	<168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<005701d4b98c$365d6f40$a3184dc0$@consensustech.com>
Message-ID: <168a513dd28.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Yeah, I think it also works if the swipe ends outside the scroller but our 
project design doesn't really lend itself to a narrower text field. Or do 
you mean that the scroller is narrower than the field it controls? I hadn't 
thought of that.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 31, 2019 11:43:38 AM Jim MacConnell via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The only way I've been able to get swipe functionality with a native
> scroller is to keep the native scroller narrower than the screen by enough
> that someone swiping is able to easily start the swipe on the background.
> I've found when people try to swipe and it doesn't work, they'll try again
> starting closer to the edge of the screen.... which I can trap.
>
> Definitely not ideal but it's all I've been able to come up with since I
> don't really want to have to code bounce, etc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of J.
> Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 9:04 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Swipe over native scroller
>
> That's similar to the handlers I'm using but they all fail because no
> mouseUp or touchEnd messages are ever sent if you are over a native
> scroller. The issue isn't with the calculations, it's because the app is
> never informed thar the swipe has completed.
>
> I'll try fiddling with touchMove again, but the message isn't sent
> consistently on slow hardware and sometimes fails.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
> http://www.hyperactivesw.com On January 31, 2019 7:20:38 AM Sannyasin
> Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Did you try Terry script? Elanor did something similar this in the
>> Listen module, it not very refined. Terry put time in it with subtle
>> time parameters. I have yet to try it. It here on the list
>>
>> Terry, do we have a place for a repository for code snippits? Maybe
>> you can put in on the forum.
>>
>> I don't think  you are going to get response to the bug problem. I
>> have been trying to get smooth scrolling for 3 years!  I think it is
>> more a question of something deep in the engine that "can't be done",
>> at least not cross platform. Otherwise they would have responded by now.
>>
>> Here's Terry code from Dec. 20...Terry.... have improved it?
>>
>> ===========
>> Terry:
>> So, it seems like this approach works ok. Turned out there was an
>> addition complication in that the items in my scrolling list are also
>> selectable and I needed to prevent them being toggled on or off during
>> a left/right swipe action. Anyway, this is what I ended up doing...
>>
>> In the card script...
>>
>> local pLoc, pTime, pV, pScroll
>>
>> on touchStart pTouchID
>>   put the mouseLoc into pLoc
>>   put the millisecs into pTime
>>   put the scroll of grp "checkList" into pScroll
>>   put the mouseV into pV
>> end touchStart
>>
>> on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchX, pTouchY
>>   put pV-pTouchY into tY
>>   put pScroll+tY into tScroll
>>   set the scroll of grp "checkList" to tScroll end touchMove
>>
>> on touchEnd pTouchID
>>   put the mouseLoc into pLoc1
>>   put (item 1 of pLoc)-(item 1 of pLoc1) into tX
>>   put (item 2 of pLoc)-(item 2 of pLoc1) into tY
>>   put the millisecs - pTime into tElapsed
>>   if abs(tX)>100 then # horizontal swipe
>>      if abs(tY)< 50 then # small vertical movement
>>         if tElapsed < 500 then # not too slow
>>            if tX > 0 then
>>               send "mouseUp" to grp "nextBtn"
>>            else
>>               send "mouseUp" to grp "backBtn"
>>            end if
>>         end if
>>      end if
>>   end if
>> end touchEnd
>>
>> And in the "checklist" script...
>>
>> local pX
>>
>> on mouseDown
>>   put the mouseH into pX
>> end mouseDown
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>   if abs((the mouseH)-pX) > 50 then exit mouseUp
>>   # list selection code
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> BR
>>
>>
>> ?On 1/30/19, 7:17 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
>> use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>    Thanks, I was afraid of that. I'll see if I can bump the bug report for
>>    attention.
>>
>>    On 1/30/19 5:49 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Not much of a workaround I'm afraid, but for a recent app (iOS and
>>> Android) I got rid of the native scroller and used the touch messages
>>> to both scroll the object and detect the swipes.
>>> Terry...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From jjs at krutt.org  Thu Jan 31 12:30:39 2019
From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 18:30:39 +0100
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <168a513dd28.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
	<168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<005701d4b98c$365d6f40$a3184dc0$@consensustech.com>
	<168a513dd28.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <0aa58074-04d4-efc5-f914-38516c97b14a@krutt.org>

Could it be somehow that your problem is linked to this issue?:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21555

Because the scrollerID is constantly changing with native scroll


Op 31-1-2019 om 19:02 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode:
> Yeah, I think it also works if the swipe ends outside the scroller but 
> our project design doesn't really lend itself to a narrower text 
> field. Or do you mean that the scroller is narrower than the field it 
> controls? I hadn't thought of that.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On January 31, 2019 11:43:38 AM Jim MacConnell via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> The only way I've been able to get swipe functionality with a native
>> scroller is to keep the native scroller narrower than the screen by 
>> enough
>> that someone swiping is able to easily start the swipe on the 
>> background.
>> I've found when people try to swipe and it doesn't work, they'll try 
>> again
>> starting closer to the edge of the screen.... which I can trap.
>>
>> Definitely not ideal but it's all I've been able to come up with since I
>> don't really want to have to code bounce, etc.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf 
>> Of J.
>> Landman Gay via use-livecode
>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 9:04 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>> Subject: Re: Swipe over native scroller
>>
>> That's similar to the handlers I'm using but they all fail because no
>> mouseUp or touchEnd messages are ever sent if you are over a native
>> scroller. The issue isn't with the calculations, it's because the app is
>> never informed thar the swipe has completed.
>>
>> I'll try fiddling with touchMove again, but the message isn't sent
>> consistently on slow hardware and sometimes fails.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com On January 31, 2019 7:20:38 AM Sannyasin
>> Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you try Terry script? Elanor did something similar this in the
>>> Listen module, it not very refined. Terry put time in it with subtle
>>> time parameters. I have yet to try it. It here on the list
>>>
>>> Terry, do we have a place for a repository for code snippits? Maybe
>>> you can put in on the forum.
>>>
>>> I don't think? you are going to get response to the bug problem. I
>>> have been trying to get smooth scrolling for 3 years!? I think it is
>>> more a question of something deep in the engine that "can't be done",
>>> at least not cross platform. Otherwise they would have responded by 
>>> now.
>>>
>>> Here's Terry code from Dec. 20...Terry.... have improved it?
>>>
>>> ===========
>>> Terry:
>>> So, it seems like this approach works ok. Turned out there was an
>>> addition complication in that the items in my scrolling list are also
>>> selectable and I needed to prevent them being toggled on or off during
>>> a left/right swipe action. Anyway, this is what I ended up doing...
>>>
>>> In the card script...
>>>
>>> local pLoc, pTime, pV, pScroll
>>>
>>> on touchStart pTouchID
>>> ? put the mouseLoc into pLoc
>>> ? put the millisecs into pTime
>>> ? put the scroll of grp "checkList" into pScroll
>>> ? put the mouseV into pV
>>> end touchStart
>>>
>>> on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchX, pTouchY
>>> ? put pV-pTouchY into tY
>>> ? put pScroll+tY into tScroll
>>> ? set the scroll of grp "checkList" to tScroll end touchMove
>>>
>>> on touchEnd pTouchID
>>> ? put the mouseLoc into pLoc1
>>> ? put (item 1 of pLoc)-(item 1 of pLoc1) into tX
>>> ? put (item 2 of pLoc)-(item 2 of pLoc1) into tY
>>> ? put the millisecs - pTime into tElapsed
>>> ? if abs(tX)>100 then # horizontal swipe
>>> ???? if abs(tY)< 50 then # small vertical movement
>>> ??????? if tElapsed < 500 then # not too slow
>>> ?????????? if tX > 0 then
>>> ????????????? send "mouseUp" to grp "nextBtn"
>>> ?????????? else
>>> ????????????? send "mouseUp" to grp "backBtn"
>>> ?????????? end if
>>> ??????? end if
>>> ???? end if
>>> ? end if
>>> end touchEnd
>>>
>>> And in the "checklist" script...
>>>
>>> local pX
>>>
>>> on mouseDown
>>> ? put the mouseH into pX
>>> end mouseDown
>>>
>>> on mouseUp
>>> ? if abs((the mouseH)-pX) > 50 then exit mouseUp
>>> ? # list selection code
>>> end mouseUp
>>>
>>> BR
>>>
>>>
>>> ?On 1/30/19, 7:17 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
>>> use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?? Thanks, I was afraid of that. I'll see if I can bump the bug 
>>> report for
>>> ?? attention.
>>>
>>> ?? On 1/30/19 5:49 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Not much of a workaround I'm afraid, but for a recent app (iOS and
>>>> Android) I got rid of the native scroller and used the touch messages
>>>> to both scroll the object and detect the swipes.
>>>> Terry...
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From irog at mac.com  Thu Jan 31 14:03:17 2019
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 12:03:17 -0700
Subject: Insert an Image into a Field
Message-ID: <DFFCB979-9344-4918-A31A-632C8D9B671F@mac.com>

Could someone please remind me how to do this? I?m having a senior moment and can?t find anything in the archives.

Thanks,
Roger

From tore.nilsen at me.com  Thu Jan 31 14:08:01 2019
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 20:08:01 +0100
Subject: Insert an Image into a Field
In-Reply-To: <DFFCB979-9344-4918-A31A-632C8D9B671F@mac.com>
References: <DFFCB979-9344-4918-A31A-632C8D9B671F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2C11C49B-8BAB-464A-8506-AA9ABFB0F532@me.com>

set the imageSource of character ?. to


Look up imageSource in the dictionary for further details.


Best regards
Tore Nilsen

-






> 31. jan. 2019 kl. 20:03 skrev Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Could someone please remind me how to do this? I?m having a senior moment and can?t find anything in the archives.
> 
> Thanks,
> Roger
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From irog at mac.com  Thu Jan 31 14:17:11 2019
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 12:17:11 -0700
Subject: Insert an Image into a Field
In-Reply-To: <2C11C49B-8BAB-464A-8506-AA9ABFB0F532@me.com>
References: <DFFCB979-9344-4918-A31A-632C8D9B671F@mac.com>
	<2C11C49B-8BAB-464A-8506-AA9ABFB0F532@me.com>
Message-ID: <FF45BA13-482A-4000-A587-BB15555A0955@mac.com>

Thank you, Tore!

> On Jan 31, 2019, at 12:08 PM, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> set the imageSource of character ?. to
> 
> 
> Look up imageSource in the dictionary for further details.
> 
> 
> Best regards
> Tore Nilsen
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 31. jan. 2019 kl. 20:03 skrev Roger Guay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Could someone please remind me how to do this? I?m having a senior moment and can?t find anything in the archives.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Jan 31 14:33:49 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:33:49 -0500
Subject: Strip XMP Packet from the end of binary image data
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLKSKD+QPVyBMAH8+p1R8sNKqGA-2ZP2zvMt4Cp+iaGRqA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Livecode Geniuses....., I've run into a problem in my application ...i
have tracked the bug down to Adobe Fireworks adding an XMP packet to the
end of clipboarddata["image"]

<?xpacket begin="???" id="W5M0MpCehiHzreSzNTczkc9d"?>
<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 5.3-c011
66.145661, 2012/02/06-14:56:27        ">
   <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:xmp="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
         <xmp:CreatorTool>Adobe Fireworks CS6 (Windows)</xmp:CreatorTool>
         <xmp:CreateDate>2019-01-31T19:16:20Z</xmp:CreateDate>
         <xmp:ModifyDate>2019-01-31T19:16:22Z</xmp:ModifyDate>
      </rdf:Description>
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
         <dc:format>image/png</dc:format>
      </rdf:Description>
   </rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

Whats worse is that Fireworks seems to update this data every second in the
clipboard. this triggers my "ClipboardChanged" function..and
chaos ensues.(the id changes)

Having tracked down the cause it down, I need to strip it from the end of
the image binary.

I am a little stumped .....coders block i guess....... and I have a feeling
that LC has a really simple way of doing it ...and I will take hours trying
to figure it out.

So glad I tracked this bug down it was keeping me up.

Thank you for any help.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jan 31 14:50:24 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 13:50:24 -0600
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <0aa58074-04d4-efc5-f914-38516c97b14a@krutt.org>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
	<168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<005701d4b98c$365d6f40$a3184dc0$@consensustech.com>
	<168a513dd28.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<0aa58074-04d4-efc5-f914-38516c97b14a@krutt.org>
Message-ID: <168a575eab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Thanks for the reply. We aren't using datagrids. The scroller is over a 
text field and is created by name.

But your script reminded me to check the scrollerEndDrag message. We don't 
allow horizontal scroll, so I'll have to see if the message is sent even if 
the scroll doesn't change. If so, that might work.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 31, 2019 12:32:24 PM JJS via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Could it be somehow that your problem is linked to this issue?:
>
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21555
>
> Because the scrollerID is constantly changing with native scroll
>
>
> Op 31-1-2019 om 19:02 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode:
>> Yeah, I think it also works if the swipe ends outside the scroller but
>> our project design doesn't really lend itself to a narrower text
>> field. Or do you mean that the scroller is narrower than the field it
>> controls? I hadn't thought of that.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On January 31, 2019 11:43:38 AM Jim MacConnell via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The only way I've been able to get swipe functionality with a native
>>> scroller is to keep the native scroller narrower than the screen by
>>> enough
>>> that someone swiping is able to easily start the swipe on the
>>> background.
>>> I've found when people try to swipe and it doesn't work, they'll try
>>> again
>>> starting closer to the edge of the screen.... which I can trap.
>>>
>>> Definitely not ideal but it's all I've been able to come up with since I
>>> don't really want to have to code bounce, etc.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf
>>> Of J.
>>> Landman Gay via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 9:04 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Cc: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Swipe over native scroller
>>>
>>> That's similar to the handlers I'm using but they all fail because no
>>> mouseUp or touchEnd messages are ever sent if you are over a native
>>> scroller. The issue isn't with the calculations, it's because the app is
>>> never informed thar the swipe has completed.
>>>
>>> I'll try fiddling with touchMove again, but the message isn't sent
>>> consistently on slow hardware and sometimes fails.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
>>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com On January 31, 2019 7:20:38 AM Sannyasin
>>> Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Did you try Terry script? Elanor did something similar this in the
>>>> Listen module, it not very refined. Terry put time in it with subtle
>>>> time parameters. I have yet to try it. It here on the list
>>>>
>>>> Terry, do we have a place for a repository for code snippits? Maybe
>>>> you can put in on the forum.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think  you are going to get response to the bug problem. I
>>>> have been trying to get smooth scrolling for 3 years!  I think it is
>>>> more a question of something deep in the engine that "can't be done",
>>>> at least not cross platform. Otherwise they would have responded by
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>> Here's Terry code from Dec. 20...Terry.... have improved it?
>>>>
>>>> ===========
>>>> Terry:
>>>> So, it seems like this approach works ok. Turned out there was an
>>>> addition complication in that the items in my scrolling list are also
>>>> selectable and I needed to prevent them being toggled on or off during
>>>> a left/right swipe action. Anyway, this is what I ended up doing...
>>>>
>>>> In the card script...
>>>>
>>>> local pLoc, pTime, pV, pScroll
>>>>
>>>> on touchStart pTouchID
>>>>  put the mouseLoc into pLoc
>>>>  put the millisecs into pTime
>>>>  put the scroll of grp "checkList" into pScroll
>>>>  put the mouseV into pV
>>>> end touchStart
>>>>
>>>> on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchX, pTouchY
>>>>  put pV-pTouchY into tY
>>>>  put pScroll+tY into tScroll
>>>>  set the scroll of grp "checkList" to tScroll end touchMove
>>>>
>>>> on touchEnd pTouchID
>>>>  put the mouseLoc into pLoc1
>>>>  put (item 1 of pLoc)-(item 1 of pLoc1) into tX
>>>>  put (item 2 of pLoc)-(item 2 of pLoc1) into tY
>>>>  put the millisecs - pTime into tElapsed
>>>>  if abs(tX)>100 then # horizontal swipe
>>>>     if abs(tY)< 50 then # small vertical movement
>>>>        if tElapsed < 500 then # not too slow
>>>>           if tX > 0 then
>>>>              send "mouseUp" to grp "nextBtn"
>>>>           else
>>>>              send "mouseUp" to grp "backBtn"
>>>>           end if
>>>>        end if
>>>>     end if
>>>>  end if
>>>> end touchEnd
>>>>
>>>> And in the "checklist" script...
>>>>
>>>> local pX
>>>>
>>>> on mouseDown
>>>>  put the mouseH into pX
>>>> end mouseDown
>>>>
>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>  if abs((the mouseH)-pX) > 50 then exit mouseUp
>>>>  # list selection code
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>
>>>> BR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ?On 1/30/19, 7:17 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
>>>> use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Thanks, I was afraid of that. I'll see if I can bump the bug
>>>> report for
>>>>   attention.
>>>>
>>>>   On 1/30/19 5:49 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Not much of a workaround I'm afraid, but for a recent app (iOS and
>>>>> Android) I got rid of the native scroller and used the touch messages
>>>>> to both scroll the object and detect the swipes.
>>>>> Terry...
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From tom at makeshyft.com  Thu Jan 31 17:23:45 2019
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 17:23:45 -0500
Subject: Strip XMP Packet from the end of binary image data
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLKSKD+QPVyBMAH8+p1R8sNKqGA-2ZP2zvMt4Cp+iaGRqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPzQJLKSKD+QPVyBMAH8+p1R8sNKqGA-2ZP2zvMt4Cp+iaGRqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJCKY6uUgY8GZPkADSCwby3eooBqz8aShg-s8PJEuwzjg@mail.gmail.com>

Scratch taht, its the modified date timestamp that changes.

I will try using regex to get the ID and check it to see if the clipboard
image really changed or not.

should be a safer and quicker workaround...I think all adobe software does
this when copying to clipboard.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 2:33 PM Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> wrote:

> Hi Livecode Geniuses....., I've run into a problem in my application ...i
> have tracked the bug down to Adobe Fireworks adding an XMP packet to the
> end of clipboarddata["image"]
>
> <?xpacket begin="???" id="W5M0MpCehiHzreSzNTczkc9d"?>
> <x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 5.3-c011
> 66.145661, 2012/02/06-14:56:27        ">
>    <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
>       <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
>             xmlns:xmp="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
>          <xmp:CreatorTool>Adobe Fireworks CS6 (Windows)</xmp:CreatorTool>
>          <xmp:CreateDate>2019-01-31T19:16:20Z</xmp:CreateDate>
>          <xmp:ModifyDate>2019-01-31T19:16:22Z</xmp:ModifyDate>
>       </rdf:Description>
>       <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
>             xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
>          <dc:format>image/png</dc:format>
>       </rdf:Description>
>    </rdf:RDF>
> </x:xmpmeta>
>
> Whats worse is that Fireworks seems to update this data every second in
> the clipboard. this triggers my "ClipboardChanged" function..and
> chaos ensues.(the id changes)
>
> Having tracked down the cause it down, I need to strip it from the end of
> the image binary.
>
> I am a little stumped .....coders block i guess....... and I have a
> feeling that LC has a really simple way of doing it ...and I will take
> hours trying to figure it out.
>
> So glad I tracked this bug down it was keeping me up.
>
> Thank you for any help.
>
>


From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Thu Jan 31 18:26:14 2019
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 23:26:14 +0000
Subject: Shoutout to Bernd Niggeman
Message-ID: <7C3C3667-B816-4561-BF07-E9DD25F1D2A4@uni-wh.de>

Roger wrote:

> This is to praise Bernd for his TinyDictionary!

Kaveh wrote:

> I second that.


Thank you Roger and Kaveh,

it was my pleasure.

By the way my current version has some additional features that are mostly of interest to people writing widgets:
You can import a temporary version of the inline dictionary of a .lcb file. Useful when editing the inline documentation of your widget.
Addtitionally you can import the current dictionary from a .json file. The advantage is that you get an up-to-date dictionary for wigdets that you install in the current session.
The downside is that it takes twice as long to import the dictionary.
If anybody is interested in this version please mail me and I will send it. If there is enough demand I will update tinyDict on Livecodeshare. Otherwise I will update tinyDict when there are more changes/bugfixes.
Currently there is only a fix for a minor display glitch. Not really worth an update.

Otherwise please report issues/bugs and I will see if I can fix them.

Kind regards
Bernd


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jan 31 18:59:50 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 17:59:50 -0600
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <168a575eab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
	<168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<005701d4b98c$365d6f40$a3184dc0$@consensustech.com>
	<168a513dd28.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<0aa58074-04d4-efc5-f914-38516c97b14a@krutt.org>
	<168a575eab8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <3f513656-c357-e57b-9bde-823ad2c69201@hyperactivesw.com>

On 1/31/19 1:50 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> But your script reminded me to check the scrollerEndDrag message. We 
> don't allow horizontal scroll, so I'll have to see if the message is 
> sent even if the scroll doesn't change. If so, that might work.

I ran a test stack on an Android device which logged scrolling-related 
messages to a field.

These messages are sent simultaneously:
   touchStart
   touchMove -- sent only once, not continuously while dragging

This is sent only if the touch ends precisely where it began:
   touchEnd -- so it can be used to detect taps if the user is careful

These are not sent at all:
   scrollerBeginDrag
   scrollerEndDrag

The analogous mouse messages are missing the same equivalents.

So basically it is impossible to do much of anything with a native 
scroller on Android except actual scrolling and detecting taps. When I 
first tested this years ago, the behavior was the same on iOS too; I'm 
not sure yet how it behaves there now.

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21816

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jan 31 19:29:38 2019
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 18:29:38 -0600
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
	<168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <d98fe388-9c3c-a345-7515-ceafaf28120a@hyperactivesw.com>

On 1/31/19 11:03 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> That's similar to the handlers I'm using but they all fail because no 
> mouseUp or touchEnd messages are ever sent if you are over a native 
> scroller. The issue isn't with the calculations, it's because the app is 
> never informed thar the swipe has completed.
> 
> I'll try fiddling with touchMove again, but the message isn't sent 
> consistently on slow hardware and sometimes fails.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On January 31, 2019 7:20:38 AM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via 
> use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Did you try Terry script? Elanor did something similar this in the 
>> Listen module, it not very refined. Terry put time in it with subtle 
>> time parameters. I have yet to try it. It here on the list

I didn't read this carefully enough. I'll try it without a scroller. 
Past experiments showed manual scrolling to be too jerky but I'll try it 
again.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Jan 31 20:07:03 2019
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 01:07:03 +0000
Subject: Swipe over native scroller
In-Reply-To: <d98fe388-9c3c-a345-7515-ceafaf28120a@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <380e968e-8e6f-baa3-5329-ada630599f44@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A50AF91B-A501-4D5A-AF36-B6E2A3BE643B@unimelb.edu.au>
	<a9f28477-1fe7-324a-7fe6-497ba5be6df7@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8FDA5384-C604-421D-BCDB-A2A43E079C18@hindu.org>
	<168a4ddb9c8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<d98fe388-9c3c-a345-7515-ceafaf28120a@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <7F0E8E79-EE28-4597-B500-0FD918273996@unimelb.edu.au>

    On 1/31/19 11:03 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
    >> Did you try Terry script? Elanor did something similar this in the 
    >> Listen module, it not very refined. Terry put time in it with subtle 
    >> time parameters. I have yet to try it. It here on the list
    
    I didn't read this carefully enough. I'll try it without a scroller. 
    Past experiments showed manual scrolling to be too jerky but I'll try it 
    again.
    
Yeah, certainly not perfect but the lists I had to scroll weren't all that long so I thought even with the very basic scrolling that I implemented that it was acceptable.

Like you I tried a truckload of workarounds to try and get swiping working with scrolling. That included making the scroller area narrower than the card (not great) and starting with the scroller hidden and then activating it depending on what touchmove was telling me (couldn't make it work). At one stage I had something that worked about half the time on iOS, but I never could get anything that was remotely usable on Android.

Terry...