Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

Andre Garzia andre at andregarzia.com
Sat Jul 29 13:36:37 EDT 2017


Hey,

I think I am on a special position to talk about this as I have been on the
bleeding edge of the Web trenches for a while. Instead of boring everyone
here to death, I will do a quick TL;DR first with the actual info and then
digress a bit about the current situation.

=========

WEB:
* The web has less friction, it is easier to get a user to open a page than
to install your software.
* The web has links, where you can change from one site/webapp to another.
Apps tend to prefer siloed approaches.

APPS:
* It is harder to monetize web apps. Apps have the online stores/walled
gardens in their favor.
* Apps have access to APIs that are native to the devices.

==========

The web is not controlled by any entity. It is an agreement or compromise
between (too) many stakeholders that goes from browser vendors, to policy
makers, to everyone in between. As it is not tied to a single company such
as iOS or Android, it evolves in multiple directions and every step needs
to be discussed and standardized before it can be truly used, this is its
weakness and strength at the same time. While apps can evolve at the whim
of their vendors.

Still the apps market is in decline, money wise, specially for small ISVs.
Most of the money made on the online stores (iTunes and Google Play) goes
for a dozen companies while thousands upon thousands of ISV don't sell any
license. The average mobile app install rate is ZERO. Most apps have zero
installs. But the lure of the "become a millionaire by selling apps" is too
strong and thousands upon thousands of new apps flood the online stores
every day. Just think about it, couple years go there were HUNDREDS of new
games every day on Google Play. The challenge of app making is not a
technological one but a business/marketing one. The hardest thing is
getting noticed in a market that has thousands alternatives and a customer
prejudice on anything costing more than 0.99.

Web apps are again on the rise with the new PWA paradigm (progressive web
apps, not to mix with progressive enhancement of couple years ago). The
PWAs behave mostly like a native mobile app. They can be installed as in
they will appear with their own icon and their own window on a mobile
phone. They can work offline. They can receive push notifications. They
really look like native because you don't see browser controls or need to
be online. Many popular apps are poised to migrate to PWAs soon. It will
probably begin with content producers such as newspapers. It is much easier
for them to ship a PWA that will work the same on mobile and desktop than
to ship apps, and also evade the 30% fee on the online stores.

Don't look at the web as that thing that displays HTML pages. That is no
longer what it is. The web (browsers) are complex virtual machines, almost
like mini operating systems there days. A Web App can work offline, get rid
of browser controls, send and receive push notifications, have access to
sensor data from the device, use complex OpenGL and Virtual Reality APIs,
use bluetooth, use the camera, connect in realtime with P2P protocols. It
is a very capable and complex platform.

Now, where that leads us LiveCode Developers? We're in the app camp but
with the new HTML export, we might soon be on the web camp as well. The new
"Web Assembly" technology can lead to a very compact and performant LC
engine on the web. Which could lead to very good and flexible deployment
options for everyone here. If RunRev could make the standalone generation
process generate a PWA by default, then, things could get really
interesting.

It is faster and easier to develop with LC than with the Web, I think the
trick is how can we deploy good software made with LC to the Web platform.
If LC can hope on the PWA hypewagon, then, the future is quite bright.

I am more than happy to talk for ages about the Web, heck, I was
contracting for Mozilla not long ago. I have been in and out of standard
meetings, spoke to engine engineers for almost all browser vendors. The Web
is not going away. I believe we need to join it.

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I believe Rick's "Why" here is key to much of what we may be doing over
> the next couple years.
>
> We developers currently find ourselves in a very strange place:
>
> On desktop, the requests are "Web! Web! Web!"
>
> On mobile, they're "Apps! Apps! Apps!"
>
> If the web offers advantages that can't be matched with native apps, why
> is this perceived as true for the desktop but not for mobile?
>
> If native apps offer advantages that can't be matched with the web, why is
> this perceived as true for mobile but not for the desktop?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> Rick Harrison wrote:
>
> > Why does the client want to move the project over to HTML5?
> > What advantage does he/she think it is going to provide that
> > the current setup does not?
> >
> > Based on the complexity of what you already have going I think
> > it could be a very serious waste of time and energy.
> >
> > It’s easier to just have a website where your users download
> > whatever version they need for their computer.  One for macOS,
> > one for Windows, and one for Unix.  If you need mobile versions
> > you can create them too.
> >
> > Trying to convert everything so it all runs in a client’s web-browser,
> > and too slowly at that considering all of your animations, I just
> > don’t see it.  You would be better off knowing you have all of
> > LC’s engine capabilities in your app than in trusting something
> > that is still listed as experimental - although soon to become beta.
> >
> > On the other hand if your client has very very deep pockets, and
> > isn’t in a rush to get it all done by tomorrow, you could make a
> > lot of money struggling with trying to get it all working.
> >
> > Good luck with whatever you do!
>
>
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