From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Dec 1 00:21:47 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:21:47 -0800 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On 11/30/2017 05:56 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > Here are the requests for input .... > > 1.? has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ?? or why did you > stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? I finally gave up on LiveCode and am now working with the combination of Bootstrap and Flux 7. Good luck with your project - sounds like you've got a great start. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From david.bovill at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 06:29:08 2017 From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:29:08 +0000 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Hi Alex, I'm working on this too in the coming weeks. I'd be happy to work on it with you if it were on GitHub. I'm working on the following aspects: 1. Static site generation and integration with relevant tool chains 2. Integration with revIgniter 3. Docker based hosting infrastructure On 1 December 2017 at 01:56, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, etc. > > Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've been > either building a new website for someone, or making significant > changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the > changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it to > use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress. > > And I've tried - but every time I've foundered on not being able to get > the site to be what I want, or realizing (believing?) that to do what I > want requires real development skills within WP - and therefore too much of > a learning curve and/or too much PHP. Or, I've decided that to make it a > bearable experience I need to use multiple add-ons (plugins, themes, etc.) > and then found that the plugins I spent hours investigating and choosing > were incompatible. Or were just not well enough documented. > > [ I won't tell you how often I've found a (video) tutorial, wasted an > entire hour or more watching it - then realized that it was for an > out-of-date version of the plugin, or an old version of Wordpress, and that > all the helpful screenshots showed me how to modify settings / actions that > didn't exist, or had no obvious equivalent, in the current versions. ] > > Twice, having run into brick walls with Wordpress, I've tried other CMSs > (Concrete5 and ??Dolphin??) with similar results - poor / out-of-date docs > have left me stranded - 80% of the way towards doing what I wanted and > unable to get any further. > > So in every case until now, I've given up, made tweaks / extensions to my > own "home-grown" web site tool(s), and - so far - completed my enhancements > in less time than I had wasted trying the "real" CMS. > > I put that down to: > - the power of Livecode > - the power of revIgniter (thank you ! again, Ralf) > - my impatience in trying to learn new tools > > But now I have a new, bigger opportunity / challenge - I've been asked to > build a web site (actually two unrelated web sites) which are bigger and > more complex, and for which I absolutely do not want to become the de facto > on-going (content) maintainer. > > So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System. > > It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas in > Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be relatively > simple. > > It won't be: > - smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP > - able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent > development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. (yada, > yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years] > > It will be : > - based on Livecode (and extensible in LC) > - (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use and > extend > - complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap) > - (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense > - documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, > skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time) > > OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-) > > Here are the requests for input .... > > 1. has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ? or why did you > stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? > > 2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to studying WP > and its plugins ? > > 3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' > revIgniter). > > I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter > + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just does" (in > a well documented, well tested, etc. way) so that I don't need to think or > learn about them, etc. - I love it. > - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency on > 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of my code > in the IDE, with debugging etc. help. > - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces (or > seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content within the > view files, and has no clear way to use "themes" > > The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') part > of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on ''pages' and > 'themes' (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other parts of > revIgniter). > > do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to remove > the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the reduced > complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a higher percentage > within the Ide, etc. ? > > Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc. > > Alex. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Dec 1 06:45:43 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:45:43 +0000 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82692868-71f9-be2e-1a0f-6ec093967700@tweedly.net> On 01/12/2017 02:47, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Could your LCMS import (and use) templates and themes > from other CMS platforms like Joomla or WordPress? Unlikely. Wordpress themes are written in PHP (or, if you like, HTML with a lot of embedded PHP), so it's hard to see how I could realistically import those. Joomla looks slightly more promising, but I'll need to dig a bit deeper; I suspect that before very long it too will turn into PHP code :-) > I would like to answer another questions, but > have no experience using RevIgniter, so could not > comment about your questions. > Thanks Alex. From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Dec 1 07:47:01 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:47:01 -0500 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <82692868-71f9-be2e-1a0f-6ec093967700@tweedly.net> References: <82692868-71f9-be2e-1a0f-6ec093967700@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I recently started working with livecode server and revigniter after 5 years of strictly desktop dev..so I'd definately be able to help contribute to the development. I gotta say I love wordpress..... but there is one thing I love more than that and its Livecode. So put me down for a yes. Please post link to github project when you are ready. On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 01/12/2017 02:47, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > > Could your LCMS import (and use) templates and themes >> from other CMS platforms like Joomla or WordPress? >> > Unlikely. > Wordpress themes are written in PHP (or, if you like, HTML with a lot of > embedded PHP), so it's hard to see how I could realistically import those. > Joomla looks slightly more promising, but I'll need to dig a bit deeper; I > suspect that before very long it too will turn into PHP code :-) > >> I would like to answer another questions, but >> have no experience using RevIgniter, so could not >> comment about your questions. >> >> Thanks > Alex. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From iphonelagi at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 09:26:26 2017 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:26:26 +0000 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Hi Alex, As much as I think revigniter is brilliant at what it does I really think if this is going to be done it should be done in LC totally. 1. The first reason which you in the fact brought up that we could use the IDE to debug 2. If PHP can do it why not Livecode? 3. I'm really hating coding in PHP now , not nearly as much as I hated Perl - but a pig with lipstick on is still a Pig 4. For ALL (and then some) of the reasons you gave about Wordpress - although I've done a fair few projects over the years but hated the fact that the API is a moving target - or so it seems so. Lagi On 1 December 2017 at 01:56, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, etc. > > Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've been > either building a new website for someone, or making significant > changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the > changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it to > use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress. > > And I've tried - but every time I've foundered on not being able to get > the site to be what I want, or realizing (believing?) that to do what I > want requires real development skills within WP - and therefore too much of > a learning curve and/or too much PHP. Or, I've decided that to make it a > bearable experience I need to use multiple add-ons (plugins, themes, etc.) > and then found that the plugins I spent hours investigating and choosing > were incompatible. Or were just not well enough documented. > > [ I won't tell you how often I've found a (video) tutorial, wasted an > entire hour or more watching it - then realized that it was for an > out-of-date version of the plugin, or an old version of Wordpress, and that > all the helpful screenshots showed me how to modify settings / actions that > didn't exist, or had no obvious equivalent, in the current versions. ] > > Twice, having run into brick walls with Wordpress, I've tried other CMSs > (Concrete5 and ??Dolphin??) with similar results - poor / out-of-date docs > have left me stranded - 80% of the way towards doing what I wanted and > unable to get any further. > > So in every case until now, I've given up, made tweaks / extensions to my > own "home-grown" web site tool(s), and - so far - completed my enhancements > in less time than I had wasted trying the "real" CMS. > > I put that down to: > - the power of Livecode > - the power of revIgniter (thank you ! again, Ralf) > - my impatience in trying to learn new tools > > But now I have a new, bigger opportunity / challenge - I've been asked to > build a web site (actually two unrelated web sites) which are bigger and > more complex, and for which I absolutely do not want to become the de facto > on-going (content) maintainer. > > So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System. > > It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas in > Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be relatively > simple. > > It won't be: > - smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP > - able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent > development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. (yada, > yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years] > > It will be : > - based on Livecode (and extensible in LC) > - (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use and > extend > - complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap) > - (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense > - documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, > skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time) > > OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-) > > Here are the requests for input .... > > 1. has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ? or why did you > stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? > > 2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to studying WP > and its plugins ? > > 3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' > revIgniter). > > I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter > + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just does" (in > a well documented, well tested, etc. way) so that I don't need to think or > learn about them, etc. - I love it. > - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency on > 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of my code > in the IDE, with debugging etc. help. > - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces (or > seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content within the > view files, and has no clear way to use "themes" > > The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') part > of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on ''pages' and > 'themes' (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other parts of > revIgniter). > > do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to remove > the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the reduced > complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a higher percentage > within the Ide, etc. ? > > Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc. > > Alex. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From runrev at learning-insights.eu Fri Dec 1 10:13:23 2017 From: runrev at learning-insights.eu (Robert Brenstein) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:13:23 +0100 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I have been using LC to generate complete websites but I use LC only as a generator of HTML pages from data files and database content, using CSS for theming and HTML hierarchical template files that call LC functions through merge. I believe that Richard Gaskin is still selling a commercial product that does this in a more generic way. I have been thinking for a while to convert my setup into a more proper CMS but gave up at the planning stage once I realized how much effort that is. I also started playing with revIgniter and am really impressed with what it offers, but I came to a similar conclusion like you. I actually had a real CMS developed in MetaCard years ago. It was developed as a special-purpose product for a client and not a generic CMS. It broke because at the time I did not use proper modularizing and abstraction layers and keeping it compatible with the database engine became impossible at some point. BTW, wasn?t there a commercial CMS produced in LC (or whatever it was called at the time)? I think its name was Hemingway or sth like that. Robert On 1 Dec 2017, at 2:56, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, > etc. > > Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've > been either building a new website for someone, or making significant > changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the > changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it > to use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress. > > And I've tried - but every time I've foundered on not being able to > get the site to be what I want, or realizing (believing?) that to do > what I want requires real development skills within WP - and therefore > too much of a learning curve and/or too much PHP.? Or, I've decided > that to make it a bearable experience I need to use multiple add-ons > (plugins, themes, etc.) and then found that the plugins I spent hours > investigating and choosing were incompatible. Or were just not well > enough documented. > > [ I won't tell you how often I've found a (video) tutorial, wasted an > entire hour or more watching it - then realized that it was for an > out-of-date version of the plugin, or an old version of Wordpress, and > that all the helpful screenshots showed me how to modify settings / > actions that didn't exist, or had no obvious equivalent, in the > current versions. ] > > Twice, having run into brick walls with Wordpress, I've tried other > CMSs (Concrete5 and ??Dolphin??) with similar results - poor / > out-of-date docs have left me stranded - 80% of the way towards doing > what I wanted and unable to get any further. > > So in every case until now, I've given up, made tweaks / extensions to > my own "home-grown" web site tool(s), and - so far - completed my > enhancements in less time than I had wasted trying the "real" CMS. > > I put that down to: > ?- the power of Livecode > ?- the power of revIgniter? (thank you ! again, Ralf) > ?- my impatience in trying to learn new tools > > But now I have a new, bigger opportunity / challenge - I've been asked > to build a web site (actually two unrelated web sites) which are > bigger and more complex, and for which I absolutely do not want to > become the de facto on-going (content) maintainer. > > So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System. > > It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas > in Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be > relatively simple. > > It won't be: > ?- smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP > ?- able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent > development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. > (yada, yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years] > > It will be : > ?- based on Livecode (and extensible in LC) > ?- (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use > and extend > ?- complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap) > ?- (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense > ?- documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, > skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time) > > OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-) > > Here are the requests for input .... > > 1.? has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ?? or why did > you stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? > > 2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to > studying WP and its plugins ? > > 3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' > revIgniter). > > I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter > ??? + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just > does" (in a well documented, well tested, etc. way)? so that I don't > need to think or learn about them, etc. - I love it. > ??? - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency > on 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of > my code in the IDE, with debugging etc. help. > ??? - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces > (or seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content > within the view files, and has no clear way to use "themes" > > The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') > part of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on? ''pages' > and 'themes'? (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other > parts of revIgniter). > > do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to > remove the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the > reduced complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a > higher percentage within the Ide, etc. ? > > Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc. > > Alex. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From david.bovill at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 10:28:26 2017 From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 15:28:26 +0000 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I code in LC and use the debugger testing revIgnitor controllers locally, then upload them to the revIgniter site to test remotely. This happens all within the script editor. I use stacks as libraries both locally and with revIgnitor. That way I feel you get the best of both worlds. It works by using a two way mapping between the revIgnitor controller and a Livecode stack that is dynamically created from the controller. What I?d be interested in is adding to this static site generation and other utilities. On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 at 15:14, Robert Brenstein via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I have been using LC to generate complete websites but I use LC only as > a generator of HTML pages from data files and database content, using > CSS for theming and HTML hierarchical template files that call LC > functions through merge. I believe that Richard Gaskin is still selling > a commercial product that does this in a more generic way. > > I have been thinking for a while to convert my setup into a more proper > CMS but gave up at the planning stage once I realized how much effort > that is. I also started playing with revIgniter and am really impressed > with what it offers, but I came to a similar conclusion like you. > > I actually had a real CMS developed in MetaCard years ago. It was > developed as a special-purpose product for a client and not a generic > CMS. It broke because at the time I did not use proper modularizing and > abstraction layers and keeping it compatible with the database engine > became impossible at some point. > > BTW, wasn?t there a commercial CMS produced in LC (or whatever it was > called at the time)? I think its name was Hemingway or sth like that. > > Robert > > On 1 Dec 2017, at 2:56, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > > Hi folks, > > > > I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, > > etc. > > > > Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've > > been either building a new website for someone, or making significant > > changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the > > changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it > > to use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress. > > > > And I've tried - but every time I've foundered on not being able to > > get the site to be what I want, or realizing (believing?) that to do > > what I want requires real development skills within WP - and therefore > > too much of a learning curve and/or too much PHP. Or, I've decided > > that to make it a bearable experience I need to use multiple add-ons > > (plugins, themes, etc.) and then found that the plugins I spent hours > > investigating and choosing were incompatible. Or were just not well > > enough documented. > > > > [ I won't tell you how often I've found a (video) tutorial, wasted an > > entire hour or more watching it - then realized that it was for an > > out-of-date version of the plugin, or an old version of Wordpress, and > > that all the helpful screenshots showed me how to modify settings / > > actions that didn't exist, or had no obvious equivalent, in the > > current versions. ] > > > > Twice, having run into brick walls with Wordpress, I've tried other > > CMSs (Concrete5 and ??Dolphin??) with similar results - poor / > > out-of-date docs have left me stranded - 80% of the way towards doing > > what I wanted and unable to get any further. > > > > So in every case until now, I've given up, made tweaks / extensions to > > my own "home-grown" web site tool(s), and - so far - completed my > > enhancements in less time than I had wasted trying the "real" CMS. > > > > I put that down to: > > - the power of Livecode > > - the power of revIgniter (thank you ! again, Ralf) > > - my impatience in trying to learn new tools > > > > But now I have a new, bigger opportunity / challenge - I've been asked > > to build a web site (actually two unrelated web sites) which are > > bigger and more complex, and for which I absolutely do not want to > > become the de facto on-going (content) maintainer. > > > > So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System. > > > > It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas > > in Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be > > relatively simple. > > > > It won't be: > > - smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP > > - able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent > > development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. > > (yada, yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years] > > > > It will be : > > - based on Livecode (and extensible in LC) > > - (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use > > and extend > > - complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap) > > - (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense > > - documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, > > skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time) > > > > OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-) > > > > Here are the requests for input .... > > > > 1. has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ? or why did > > you stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? > > > > 2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to > > studying WP and its plugins ? > > > > 3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' > > revIgniter). > > > > I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter > > + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just > > does" (in a well documented, well tested, etc. way) so that I don't > > need to think or learn about them, etc. - I love it. > > - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency > > on 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of > > my code in the IDE, with debugging etc. help. > > - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces > > (or seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content > > within the view files, and has no clear way to use "themes" > > > > The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') > > part of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on ''pages' > > and 'themes' (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other > > parts of revIgniter). > > > > do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to > > remove the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the > > reduced complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a > > higher percentage within the Ide, etc. ? > > > > Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc. > > > > Alex. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rabit at revigniter.com Fri Dec 1 11:00:36 2017 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:00:36 +0100 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Hi Alex, here are my offhand and fairly blunt thoughts on your undertaking. First of all I think that the primary challenge in building a CMS, no matter if you use LiveCode, PHP or whatever, is to provide a tool for an audience which is not that tech-savvy. So, the process of managing web content should be made extremely simple. In my opinion to achieve this goal it is crucial that the CMS allows for most of the tasks inline editing in a very convenient way. But all this means that the front-end is not less important than the back-end and besides developing the back-end using LC, based on revIgniter or not, one has to be prepared to write a lot of JavaScript code. Personally I was thinking about developing a CMS for quite some time but stayed away from doing it because it is such a huge task and because it would not pay my bills. Regarding Bootstrap: I like Bootstrap but in times of flexbox and CSS grids I have a slight feeling that Bootstrap could become more and more dispensable for your purpose, especially as you mentioned that you try to reduce complexity. Ralf > On 1. Dec 2017, at 02:56, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System. > > It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas in Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be relatively simple. > > It won't be: > - smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP > - able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. (yada, yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years] > > It will be : > - based on Livecode (and extensible in LC) > - (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use and extend > - complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap) > - (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense > - documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time) > > OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-) > > Here are the requests for input .... > > 1. has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ? or why did you stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? > > 2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to studying WP and its plugins ? > > 3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' revIgniter). > > I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter > + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just does" (in a well documented, well tested, etc. way) so that I don't need to think or learn about them, etc. - I love it. > - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency on 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of my code in the IDE, with debugging etc. help. > - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces (or seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content within the view files, and has no clear way to use "themes" > > The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') part of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on ''pages' and 'themes' (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other parts of revIgniter). > > do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to remove the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the reduced complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a higher percentage within the Ide, etc. ? > > Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc. > > Alex. From warren at warrensweb.us Fri Dec 1 11:08:18 2017 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:08:18 -0600 Subject: goofy question about audioClip In-Reply-To: <571f784f-0d4d-7045-50e8-5fb05aabe24b@gmail.com> References: <571f784f-0d4d-7045-50e8-5fb05aabe24b@gmail.com> Message-ID: <093313e7-591c-d8aa-c264-0defeb4ff354@warrensweb.us> On 11/29/2017 02:27 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > Is there a way to play audioClips in Linux? > > The tutorial makes no mention of this feature being restricted to some > platforms. audioclips work in Linux. I don't know what dependencies you need to satisfy, and you'll have to do some experimenting with file formats (wav might be the safest bet) and the bit rate and sample rate to find those that work and those that don't. My experience is that some sounds (maybe very short ones?) seem not to do anything in the IDE but play fine in a standalone. Looking at this page: http://www.music.helsinki.fi/tmt/opetus/uusmedia/esim/index-e.html the first three sample wav files "play" as white noise when imported as audioclips (in the IDE) but the u-law encoded one reproduces nicely. Warren From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Dec 1 12:22:40 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:22:40 -0800 Subject: Q re multilingual mobile apps Message-ID: <0aad3bc4-409c-06b0-302e-7d1d31fb710e@fourthworld.com> Interesting question in the forums that has me stumped: If you have an app where you've worked out multilingual support, what function can we call to determine the device's current language setting? http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30081 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Fri Dec 1 12:28:37 2017 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:28:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: goofy question about audioClip In-Reply-To: <093313e7-591c-d8aa-c264-0defeb4ff354@warrensweb.us> References: <571f784f-0d4d-7045-50e8-5fb05aabe24b@gmail.com> <093313e7-591c-d8aa-c264-0defeb4ff354@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: <1512149317021-0.post@n4.nabble.com> I've found when an audio file sounds like white noise in Livecode, it can often be fixed by opening the file in an audio editor and re-exporting it with settings of 16-bit, 44100 Hz sample rate, mono. -- Tom B. -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Fri Dec 1 12:52:33 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:52:33 +0000 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes Message-ID: I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to go up and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the key down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is released. How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is released? -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies ? Twitter ? LinkedIn Phone +44 7771 824 111 From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Dec 1 12:53:42 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:53:42 -0800 Subject: IDE breaks down over time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <819d76a3-7231-f512-7501-d47380295429@sonic.net> On 11/28/2017 12:19 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > 4) suddenly no longer able to save or open the message box? Just got this situation again. The IDE completely unresponsive, all other open apps working properly. Top shows LC using 98% of the CPU, and a kill -9 got things back to normal. I suppose leaving the IDE open overnight wasn't a good idea. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From paul at researchware.com Fri Dec 1 13:00:29 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 13:00:29 -0500 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f480692-49cb-1305-347d-af93e4d20796@researchware.com> On 12/1/2017 12:52 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to go up > and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the key > down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is > released. > > How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is > released? > look at the dictionary entries for 'the pendingMessages' and the 'cancel' command From paul at livecode.org Fri Dec 1 13:01:11 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:01:11 -0800 Subject: Q re multilingual mobile apps In-Reply-To: <0aad3bc4-409c-06b0-302e-7d1d31fb710e@fourthworld.com> References: <0aad3bc4-409c-06b0-302e-7d1d31fb710e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1DC2311B-191D-421C-AC7F-C58E7CD0EDEC@livecode.org> According to the dictionary, you should be able to use mobileCurrentLocale(), but I don?t know what the specific results would be, as the dictionary example states ?en_US? whereas the equivalent result shown in the settings on iOS is ?English (U.S.)?, so some careful investigations may be necessary. Paul > On 1 Dec 2017, at 09:22, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Interesting question in the forums that has me stumped: > > If you have an app where you've worked out multilingual support, what function can we call to determine the device's current language setting? > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30081 > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 13:21:29 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:21:29 -0800 Subject: IDE breaks down over time In-Reply-To: <819d76a3-7231-f512-7501-d47380295429@sonic.net> References: <819d76a3-7231-f512-7501-d47380295429@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Just got this situation again. The IDE completely unresponsive, all other > open apps working properly. Top shows LC using 98% of the CPU, and a kill -9 > got things back to normal. I suppose leaving the IDE open overnight wasn't a > good idea. Overnight doesn't seem to make a difference for me. This seems to happen suddenly during the day while working. I don't use it after overnight; though; I quit to force it to bump the version of my source stacks. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Dec 1 13:24:55 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:24:55 +0000 Subject: IDE breaks down over time In-Reply-To: References: <819d76a3-7231-f512-7501-d47380295429@sonic.net> Message-ID: You are saying the IDE process is maxing out? There was a known issue with notifications doing this in MacOS 10.11. Are you creating alerts in your apps? Bob S > On Dec 1, 2017, at 10:21 , Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: > >> Just got this situation again. The IDE completely unresponsive, all other >> open apps working properly. Top shows LC using 98% of the CPU, and a kill -9 >> got things back to normal. I suppose leaving the IDE open overnight wasn't a >> good idea. > > Overnight doesn't seem to make a difference for me. This seems to > happen suddenly during the day while working. > > I don't use it after overnight; though; I quit to force it to bump the > version of my source stacks. > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 13:27:03 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 20:27:03 +0200 Subject: goofy question about audioClip In-Reply-To: <093313e7-591c-d8aa-c264-0defeb4ff354@warrensweb.us> References: <571f784f-0d4d-7045-50e8-5fb05aabe24b@gmail.com> <093313e7-591c-d8aa-c264-0defeb4ff354@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: <03c67199-bb23-50f5-4116-a5c604ea7622@gmail.com> That's a great help, thank you very much indeed. Richmond. On 1/12/17 6:08 pm, Warren Samples via use-livecode wrote: > On 11/29/2017 02:27 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> Is there a way to play audioClips in Linux? >> >> The tutorial makes no mention of this feature being restricted to >> some platforms. > > > audioclips work in Linux. I don't know what dependencies you need to > satisfy, and you'll have to do some experimenting with file formats > (wav might be the safest bet) and the bit rate and sample rate to find > those that work and those that don't. My experience is that some > sounds (maybe very short ones?) seem not to do anything in the IDE but > play fine in a standalone. > > Looking at this page: > > http://www.music.helsinki.fi/tmt/opetus/uusmedia/esim/index-e.html > > the first three sample wav files "play" as white noise when imported > as audioclips (in the IDE) but the u-law encoded one reproduces nicely. > > > Warren > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 13:32:38 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 20:32:38 +0200 Subject: goofy question about audioClip In-Reply-To: <1512149317021-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <571f784f-0d4d-7045-50e8-5fb05aabe24b@gmail.com> <093313e7-591c-d8aa-c264-0defeb4ff354@warrensweb.us> <1512149317021-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <134b95e6-8343-4959-3961-4e880f43743c@gmail.com> Now there's a nifty and valuable piece of information. And here's the obvious riposte: http://www.audacityteam.org/ Richmond. On 1/12/17 7:28 pm, tbodine via use-livecode wrote: > I've found when an audio file sounds like white noise in Livecode, it can > often be fixed by opening the file in an audio editor and re-exporting it > with settings of 16-bit, 44100 Hz sample rate, mono. > > -- Tom B. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hello at simonsmith.co Fri Dec 1 14:20:26 2017 From: hello at simonsmith.co (Simon Smith) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 21:20:26 +0200 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Hi I have played with this a bit, and got pretty far for a proof of concept for an ecommerce project I was working on. I stopped working on it when I left the company I was working for. I did not use rev igniter since I wanted it to function as it's own framework and I think it just makes the coding simpler in the end. I was not coding it in the IDE but rather my text editor (sublime), it just works so nicely for web projects =) and I have not really had any problems with debugging in the browser. I got pretty far with it. Creating pages, posts products etc, Had a WYSIWYG editor (TinyMCE) along with a simple image uploader / manager. Themes worked and kinda had I have an idea on how to handle some type of plugin architecture. It was working pretty well for the project I was developing it for. I have since then started cleaning it up and making it more of a generic CMS but time is my biggest problem :(. The idea was / is to have an alternative CMS that I could use for when WordPress was not a good fit for a website. I have also done a much simpler "CMS" in LC for my blog. It's just 1 lc file and an sqlite database and does pretty much everything I need. Still needs a bit of cleaning up, but I am quiet happy with the way it turned out and how easy it was code. To answer your question: 1) Apart from time, l did find that there were a few PHP functions that would have be very useful to have in LiveCode but I could work around pretty much all the problems I had. 2) Everything has its place. WordPress is a fantastic CMS and capable of much more than most people realise but does have it's limits. 3) Unfortunately I don't have much rev igniter experience, but I have never been fond of using frameworks in web projects. If everything was working smoothly and quickly, I don't think it is necessary to remove rev igniter and I would far rather work with a text editor and debug in the browser than in the IDE. While WordPress is a very popular CMS (can't deny that) it can become very user unfriendly very quickly, and not to mention slow. Clients are usually happy to accept alternative solutions if they will make their lives easier (even if they are simpler and lack all the functionality of a more popular CMS. It is amazing how much faster a CMS can be once you strip out all the unneeded functionality. Simon Carpe diem *Simon Smith* m. +27 83 306 7862 On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 3:56 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, etc. > > Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've been > either building a new website for someone, or making significant > changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the > changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it to > use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress. > > And I've tried - but every time I've foundered on not being able to get > the site to be what I want, or realizing (believing?) that to do what I > want requires real development skills within WP - and therefore too much of > a learning curve and/or too much PHP. Or, I've decided that to make it a > bearable experience I need to use multiple add-ons (plugins, themes, etc.) > and then found that the plugins I spent hours investigating and choosing > were incompatible. Or were just not well enough documented. > > [ I won't tell you how often I've found a (video) tutorial, wasted an > entire hour or more watching it - then realized that it was for an > out-of-date version of the plugin, or an old version of Wordpress, and that > all the helpful screenshots showed me how to modify settings / actions that > didn't exist, or had no obvious equivalent, in the current versions. ] > > Twice, having run into brick walls with Wordpress, I've tried other CMSs > (Concrete5 and ??Dolphin??) with similar results - poor / out-of-date docs > have left me stranded - 80% of the way towards doing what I wanted and > unable to get any further. > > So in every case until now, I've given up, made tweaks / extensions to my > own "home-grown" web site tool(s), and - so far - completed my enhancements > in less time than I had wasted trying the "real" CMS. > > I put that down to: > - the power of Livecode > - the power of revIgniter (thank you ! again, Ralf) > - my impatience in trying to learn new tools > > But now I have a new, bigger opportunity / challenge - I've been asked to > build a web site (actually two unrelated web sites) which are bigger and > more complex, and for which I absolutely do not want to become the de facto > on-going (content) maintainer. > > So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System. > > It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas in > Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be relatively > simple. > > It won't be: > - smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP > - able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent > development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. (yada, > yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years] > > It will be : > - based on Livecode (and extensible in LC) > - (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use and > extend > - complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap) > - (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense > - documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, > skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time) > > OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-) > > Here are the requests for input .... > > 1. has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ? or why did you > stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? > > 2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to studying WP > and its plugins ? > > 3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' > revIgniter). > > I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter > + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just does" (in > a well documented, well tested, etc. way) so that I don't need to think or > learn about them, etc. - I love it. > - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency on > 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of my code > in the IDE, with debugging etc. help. > - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces (or > seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content within the > view files, and has no clear way to use "themes" > > The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') part > of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on ''pages' and > 'themes' (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other parts of > revIgniter). > > do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to remove > the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the reduced > complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a higher percentage > within the Ide, etc. ? > > Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc. > > Alex. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 14:52:11 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:52:11 -0800 Subject: IDE breaks down over time In-Reply-To: References: <819d76a3-7231-f512-7501-d47380295429@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > You are saying the IDE process is maxing out? There was a known issue with notifications doing this in > MacOS 10.11. Are you creating alerts in your apps? Was this to me? I don't create alerts, but there's the occasional dialog box. Haven't looked to see which process has gone nuts; it's just that sometimes things go non responsive and/or the message box cannot be brought up. I think the rest of the menu is active but does nothing when this happens, but it hasn't bitten me enough to make sure. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 1 15:03:11 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:03:11 -0600 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/1/17 11:52 AM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to go up > and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the key > down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is > released. > > How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is > released? > What handler are you using? I just did a test with rawKeyDown and arrowKey and they all stop when I release the key. (Though arrowkey seems to be ignoring left and right keys in LC 9 for some reason.) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 15:27:42 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 22:27:42 +0200 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I may be a bit stupid, but as far as I understand you are trying to do this: 1. You keep an arrow key pressed down, 2. You do other things with other keys while the arrow key is pressed down. I cannot begin to try to answer your question until you either confirm what I have written or say that I am wrong and then explain, clearly, what you want to do. Richmond. On 1/12/17 10:03 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/1/17 11:52 AM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: >> I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to >> go up >> and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep >> the key >> down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is >> released. >> >> How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is >> released? >> > > What handler are you using? I just did a test with rawKeyDown and > arrowKey and they all stop when I release the key. (Though arrowkey > seems to be ignoring left and right keys in LC 9 for some reason.) > From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 16:06:00 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:06:00 -0700 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you're using rawkeydown you can check to see if the key is actually still down before doing any processing.. on rawkeydown pKey -- since you're checking specifically for arrow keys, you can use pkey as the first part of the filter.. if pkey is among the items of "65361,65362,65363,65364" then -- then determine which arrow key(s) are down and respond accordingly. if 65361 is among the items of the keysdown then -- left arrow key is currently down --do stuff for left arrow key here end if if 65362 is among the items of the keysdown then -- up arrow key is currently down --do stuff for up arrow key here end if if 65363 is among the items of the keysdown then -- right arrow key is currently down -- do stuff for right arrow key here end if if 65364 is among the items of the keysdown then -- downarrow key is currently down -- do stuff for down arrow key here end if else pass rawkeydown --if a key other than an arrow was pressed, pass it on end if end rawkeydown On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I may be a bit stupid, but as far as I understand you are trying to do > this: > > 1. You keep an arrow key pressed down, > > 2. You do other things with other keys while the arrow key is pressed down. > > I cannot begin to try to answer your question until you either > confirm what I have written or say that I am wrong and then > explain, clearly, what you want to do. > > Richmond. > > On 1/12/17 10:03 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 12/1/17 11:52 AM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to go >>> up >>> and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the >>> key >>> down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is >>> released. >>> >>> How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is >>> released? >>> >>> >> What handler are you using? I just did a test with rawKeyDown and >> arrowKey and they all stop when I release the key. (Though arrowkey seems >> to be ignoring left and right keys in LC 9 for some reason.) >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Fri Dec 1 16:16:32 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 21:16:32 +0000 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the replies guys. Richmond, sorry I was not clear. It is simpler: - I click in a field that has a value - I press arrow key (up or down) - I want the value to change up or down in that field - After the value is changed, other actions are triggered, e.g. setting the value of a scrollbar to the same value - The process continues while I have the arrowkey pressed - As soon as I release the system is idle (except for the last arrow action that continues) It is the final action I have a problem with, as dozens of arrow key actions are held in the buffer. The number keeps increasing or decreasing and background actions are triggered. Here is a minimal version of the handler I have: on arrowKey theKey if theKey is "up" then put current_value + increment into the target end if -- up if theKey is "down" then put current_value - increment into the target end if -- down pass arrowKey end arrowKey On 1 December 2017 at 20:27, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I may be a bit stupid, but as far as I understand you are trying to do > this: > > 1. You keep an arrow key pressed down, > > 2. You do other things with other keys while the arrow key is pressed down. > > I cannot begin to try to answer your question until you either > confirm what I have written or say that I am wrong and then > explain, clearly, what you want to do. > > Richmond. > > On 1/12/17 10:03 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 12/1/17 11:52 AM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to go >>> up >>> and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the >>> key >>> down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is >>> released. >>> >>> How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is >>> released? >>> >>> >> What handler are you using? I just did a test with rawKeyDown and >> arrowKey and they all stop when I release the key. (Though arrowkey seems >> to be ignoring left and right keys in LC 9 for some reason.) >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies ? Twitter ? LinkedIn Phone +44 7771 824 111 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 1 16:18:32 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:18:32 -0600 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My understanding of the question is that keydown messages are being queued and continue to run to exhaustion even after the key is no longer pressed. I couldn't duplicate that behavior. The rawkeydown handler below will manage keypresses but won't solve a backed-up message queue. That's why I asked what the handler looked like, there may be something there that is causing the behavior. Or we've all misunderstood the question. :) On 12/1/17 3:06 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > If you're using rawkeydown you can check to see if the key is actually > still down before doing any processing.. > > on rawkeydown pKey > -- since you're checking specifically for arrow keys, you can use pkey > as the first part of the filter.. > > if pkey is among the items of "65361,65362,65363,65364" then > -- then determine which arrow key(s) are down and respond accordingly. > if 65361 is among the items of the keysdown then -- left arrow key is > currently down > --do stuff for left arrow key here > end if > > if 65362 is among the items of the keysdown then -- up arrow key is > currently down > --do stuff for up arrow key here > end if > if 65363 is among the items of the keysdown then -- right arrow key is > currently down > -- do stuff for right arrow key here > end if > if 65364 is among the items of the keysdown then -- downarrow key is > currently down > -- do stuff for down arrow key here > end if > > else > pass rawkeydown --if a key other than an arrow was pressed, pass it on > end if > > end rawkeydown > > On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I may be a bit stupid, but as far as I understand you are trying to do >> this: >> >> 1. You keep an arrow key pressed down, >> >> 2. You do other things with other keys while the arrow key is pressed down. >> >> I cannot begin to try to answer your question until you either >> confirm what I have written or say that I am wrong and then >> explain, clearly, what you want to do. >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 1/12/17 10:03 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> On 12/1/17 11:52 AM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to go >>>> up >>>> and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the >>>> key >>>> down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is >>>> released. >>>> >>>> How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is >>>> released? >>>> >>>> >>> What handler are you using? I just did a test with rawKeyDown and >>> arrowKey and they all stop when I release the key. (Though arrowkey seems >>> to be ignoring left and right keys in LC 9 for some reason.) >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 1 16:23:01 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:23:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1512163381186-0.post@n4.nabble.com> If you have this in the script of a field: on arrowKey tKey add 1 to me end arrowKey The continuous addition stops instantly after release. As Jacque mentioned, how are you doing it? Craig Newman -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 1 16:29:34 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:29:34 -0600 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/1/17 3:16 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > It is the final action I have a problem with, as dozens of arrow key > actions are held in the buffer. The number keeps increasing or decreasing > and background actions are triggered. > > Here is a minimal version of the handler I have: > > on arrowKey theKey > if theKey is "up" then > put current_value + increment into the target > end if -- up > if theKey is "down" then > put current_value - increment into the target > end if -- down > pass arrowKey > end arrowKey Works okay here using only the simplified handler you posted (after I added values to the variables increment and current_value.) I'm testing in LC 9 dp 10. My test handler, located in a field script: on arrowKey theKey put 1 into increment put me into current_value if theKey is "up" then put current_value + increment into the target end if -- up if theKey is "down" then put current_value - increment into the target end if -- down pass arrowKey end arrowKey Does this simplified handler work for you? If so, then something farther along the message path is duplicating the messages. Unless you need it, try removing the "pass" statement. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Fri Dec 1 16:41:09 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 21:41:09 +0000 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1 December 2017 at 21:29, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/1/17 3:16 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > >> It is the final action I have a problem with, as dozens of arrow key >> actions are held in the buffer. The number keeps increasing or decreasing >> and background actions are triggered. >> >> Here is a minimal version of the handler I have: >> >> on arrowKey theKey >> if theKey is "up" then >> put current_value + increment into the target >> end if -- up >> if theKey is "down" then >> put current_value - increment into the target >> end if -- down >> pass arrowKey >> end arrowKey >> > > Works okay here using only the simplified handler you posted (after I > added values to the variables increment and current_value.) I'm testing in > LC 9 dp 10. My test handler, located in a field script: > > on arrowKey theKey > put 1 into increment > put me into current_value > if theKey is "up" then > put current_value + increment into the target > end if -- up > if theKey is "down" then > put current_value - increment into the target > end if -- down > pass arrowKey > end arrowKey > > Does this simplified handler work for you? If so, then something farther > along the message path is duplicating the messages. Unless you need it, try > removing the "pass" statement. Thank you so much Jacqueline This indeed works. But if something is done in the background then the problem starts. (I am using the same version of LiveCode.) I tried this: on arrowKey theKey put 1 into increment put me into current_value if theKey is "up" then put current_value + increment into the target repeat with i = 1 to 1000000 put 1+i into temp end repeat end if -- up if theKey is "down" then put current_value - increment into the target end if -- down pass arrowKey end arrowKey The down arrow works but up arrow has the problem I have mentioned. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies ? Twitter ? LinkedIn Phone +44 7771 824 111 From paul at researchware.com Fri Dec 1 16:45:46 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:45:46 -0500 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: <8f480692-49cb-1305-347d-af93e4d20796@researchware.com> References: <8f480692-49cb-1305-347d-af93e4d20796@researchware.com> Message-ID: <93f378bc-8db6-c1c5-7a9d-10dbcef0c178@researchware.com> On 12/1/2017 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/1/2017 12:52 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: >> I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to go up >> and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the key >> down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is >> released. >> >> How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is >> released? >> > look at the dictionary entries for 'the pendingMessages' and the > 'cancel' command > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > what you actually want is flushEvents(eventType) -- see dictionary just execute flushEvents("autoKey") when you handler is done to clear extraneous arrowkey messages From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Fri Dec 1 17:02:55 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 22:02:55 +0000 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: <93f378bc-8db6-c1c5-7a9d-10dbcef0c178@researchware.com> References: <8f480692-49cb-1305-347d-af93e4d20796@researchware.com> <93f378bc-8db6-c1c5-7a9d-10dbcef0c178@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul It looks like just what I need and thanks for that, but it does not do the job in my stack and in the single field stack with one line added: on arrowKey theKey put 1 into increment put me into current_value if theKey is "up" then put current_value + increment into the target repeat with i = 1 to 1000000 put 1+i into temp end repeat end if -- up if theKey is "down" then put current_value - increment into the target end if -- down flushEvents("autoKey") pass arrowKey end arrowKey (note flushEvents near end) The stack moves from the front so it no longer sees the arrows. This is a separate problem I have had. (sorry to bring up this second issue.) Cannot work out how to bring forward the main stack On 1 December 2017 at 21:45, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/1/2017 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > On 12/1/2017 12:52 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > >> I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to > go up > >> and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the > key > >> down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is > >> released. > >> > >> How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is > >> released? > >> > > look at the dictionary entries for 'the pendingMessages' and the > > 'cancel' command > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > what you actually want is flushEvents(eventType) -- see dictionary > > > just execute flushEvents("autoKey") when you handler is done to clear > extraneous arrowkey messages > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies ? Twitter ? LinkedIn Phone +44 7771 824 111 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 1 19:41:29 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 18:41:29 -0600 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes In-Reply-To: References: <8f480692-49cb-1305-347d-af93e4d20796@researchware.com> <93f378bc-8db6-c1c5-7a9d-10dbcef0c178@researchware.com> Message-ID: <16014a4aa40.2783.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> It's a function, so try get flushEvents("autoKey") -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 1, 2017 4:05:20 PM Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Paul > > It looks like just what I need and thanks for that, but it does not do the > job in my stack and in the single field stack with one line added: > > > on arrowKey theKey > put 1 into increment > put me into current_value > if theKey is "up" then > put current_value + increment into the target > repeat with i = 1 to 1000000 > put 1+i into temp > end repeat > end if -- up > if theKey is "down" then > put current_value - increment into the target > end if -- down > flushEvents("autoKey") > pass arrowKey > end arrowKey > > (note flushEvents near end) > > The stack moves from the front so it no longer sees the arrows. This is a > separate problem I have had. (sorry to bring up this second issue.) Cannot > work out how to bring forward the main stack > > On 1 December 2017 at 21:45, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 12/1/2017 1:00 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> > On 12/1/2017 12:52 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I have a field with a number in it. when focused, I want the value to >> go up >> >> and down with the up/down arrow keys. The trouble is that if I keep the >> key >> >> down, it traps multiple keydown messages that continue after the key is >> >> released. >> >> >> >> How can I ensure that message are terminated as soon as arrow key is >> >> released? >> >> >> > look at the dictionary entries for 'the pendingMessages' and the >> > 'cancel' command >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> what you actually want is flushEvents(eventType) -- see dictionary >> >> >> just execute flushEvents("autoKey") when you handler is done to clear >> extraneous arrowkey messages >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > Kaveh Bazargan > Director > River Valley Technologies ? Twitter > ? LinkedIn > > Phone +44 7771 824 111 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Fri Dec 1 20:04:01 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 23:04:01 -0200 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Hey Alex, Long time, no see! Hope all is well over there. Its that time again when I pop up out of nowhere and write a long email, sorry for the longform text but I am kind of a sucker for CMSs. as pointed before by Ralf, CMSs are tricky business and quite hard to get it right. It is easy to get something working but making it right for your users and also safe is quite hard indeed and thats why I want to share some opinions from someone who has done a lot in this space before with different degrees of success, just please bear in mind that this is my opinion and your experience may vary. Using a more widespread language such as PHP or Python will make it easier to find content about CMS but this convenience might be less useful when compared to your expertise in LC. Using the language you know well tend to lead to a saner workflow than "lets learn or get better with $LANGUAGE so that we can build $PRODUCT", if you want to build a product that you will ship and reuse, better go with something you have pleasure working with even if there is few literature about how to apply LC to the task at hand. There will be a lot of challenges, specially related to interfacing with third-party stuff or dealing with common modern tasks as we lack a lot in terms of libraries when compared to PHP and NodeJS (and basically all the other languages out there used in web). LC is quite powerful but to do proper web work you will probably require reinventing the non-existing wheel every once and again. RevIgniter will get you quite far thought and Ralf is just an amazing guy that deserves tons of kudos and cumplimentary drinks (or sodas, or juice, no idea what he likes) from us at the next conference. The main problem I see when using LC for web is that we tend to use LC as if it was PHP and forget all the features that makes it powerful. Many who have recent contact with me knows that I am absolute believer in LC power on the Desktop, and that I tend to use other technologies when developing web or mobile even though LC can do both, it is just a matter of preference. What I think would be a unique selling point for a CMS built with LC is embracing the Desktop. Other CMSs such as the PHP built ones require a complex web interface to administrate it full of thousands of moving parts. Usually it is on these admin interfaces that all the problems, bugs and invasions happen. Instead of treating LC Server as a readable PHP engine and working just like PHP developers do, you can do something that they can't, you can ship real, proper, Desktop tool that works well and offline and syncs with the main server when needed. If I was building a CMS today with LC Server, I would build an API server, something that receives and responds JSON or GraphQL (if we ever write a GraphQL library). I would build a Desktop admin tool with a UX better than a web interface in half the time it would take to build a web interface. The presentation part with the templates and so on, I would delegate to RevIgniter. If I may give you some tidbits to check out that might be interesting for your project: * Check GravCMS model of data storage. It is a quite good CMS built with PHP that doesn't use a RDBMS. All the posts are flat-files on disk, it is a very powerful approach and then you don't need to worry about SQL injection. * If you build a Desktop app, then, you can use something like a "bundled revserver" to run the whole system locally thus enabling the user to fiddle with the site even when not connected to the internet (sync later) * If your Desktop admin app is based on a feature complete library for your own CMS, then you can create custom stacks for specific clients or needs thus providing value and care that they usually can't find elsewhere. * By not having an web admin interface, you reduce the "attack surface" of your system. * If you choose to store your data on flat files and use git on that folder, you get branching, rollback and backups for free for your CMS. * If you do what I mentioned above, you also can collaborate with others running the Desktop admin and its local web server, thus enabling distributed development of the site and deployment to production later. I can go on for ours regarding CMS and ideas, specially because I am not the one implementing it, I am just venting out information.. Om om andre On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Simon Smith via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi > > I have played with this a bit, and got pretty far for a proof of concept > for an ecommerce project I was working on. I stopped working on it when I > left the company I was working for. > > I did not use rev igniter since I wanted it to function as it's own > framework and I think it just makes the coding simpler in the end. I was > not coding it in the IDE but rather my text editor (sublime), it just works > so nicely for web projects =) and I have not really had any problems with > debugging in the browser. > > I got pretty far with it. Creating pages, posts products etc, Had a WYSIWYG > editor (TinyMCE) along with a simple image uploader / manager. Themes > worked and kinda had I have an idea on how to handle some type of plugin > architecture. It was working pretty well for the project I was developing > it for. I have since then started cleaning it up and making it more of a > generic CMS but time is my biggest problem :(. The idea was / is to have > an alternative CMS that I could use for when WordPress was not a good fit > for a website. > > I have also done a much simpler "CMS" in LC for my blog. It's just 1 lc > file and an sqlite database and does pretty much everything I need. Still > needs a bit of cleaning up, but I am quiet happy with the way it turned out > and how easy it was code. > > To answer your question: > > 1) Apart from time, l did find that there were a few PHP functions that > would have be very useful to have in LiveCode but I could work around > pretty much all the problems I had. > 2) Everything has its place. WordPress is a fantastic CMS and capable of > much more than most people realise but does have it's limits. > 3) Unfortunately I don't have much rev igniter experience, but I have never > been fond of using frameworks in web projects. > > If everything was working smoothly and quickly, I don't think it is > necessary to remove rev igniter and I would far rather work with a text > editor and debug in the browser than in the IDE. > > While WordPress is a very popular CMS (can't deny that) it can become very > user unfriendly very quickly, and not to mention slow. Clients are usually > happy to accept alternative solutions if they will make their lives easier > (even if they are simpler and lack all the functionality of a more popular > CMS. It is amazing how much faster a CMS can be once you strip out all the > unneeded functionality. > > > Simon > > > > > Carpe diem > > *Simon Smith* > m. +27 83 306 7862 > > On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 3:56 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi folks, > > > > I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, etc. > > > > Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've been > > either building a new website for someone, or making significant > > changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the > > changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it to > > use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress. > > > > And I've tried - but every time I've foundered on not being able to get > > the site to be what I want, or realizing (believing?) that to do what I > > want requires real development skills within WP - and therefore too much > of > > a learning curve and/or too much PHP. Or, I've decided that to make it a > > bearable experience I need to use multiple add-ons (plugins, themes, > etc.) > > and then found that the plugins I spent hours investigating and choosing > > were incompatible. Or were just not well enough documented. > > > > [ I won't tell you how often I've found a (video) tutorial, wasted an > > entire hour or more watching it - then realized that it was for an > > out-of-date version of the plugin, or an old version of Wordpress, and > that > > all the helpful screenshots showed me how to modify settings / actions > that > > didn't exist, or had no obvious equivalent, in the current versions. ] > > > > Twice, having run into brick walls with Wordpress, I've tried other CMSs > > (Concrete5 and ??Dolphin??) with similar results - poor / out-of-date > docs > > have left me stranded - 80% of the way towards doing what I wanted and > > unable to get any further. > > > > So in every case until now, I've given up, made tweaks / extensions to my > > own "home-grown" web site tool(s), and - so far - completed my > enhancements > > in less time than I had wasted trying the "real" CMS. > > > > I put that down to: > > - the power of Livecode > > - the power of revIgniter (thank you ! again, Ralf) > > - my impatience in trying to learn new tools > > > > But now I have a new, bigger opportunity / challenge - I've been asked to > > build a web site (actually two unrelated web sites) which are bigger and > > more complex, and for which I absolutely do not want to become the de > facto > > on-going (content) maintainer. > > > > So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System. > > > > It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas in > > Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be relatively > > simple. > > > > It won't be: > > - smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP > > - able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent > > development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. > (yada, > > yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years] > > > > It will be : > > - based on Livecode (and extensible in LC) > > - (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use and > > extend > > - complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap) > > - (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense > > - documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, > > skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time) > > > > OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-) > > > > Here are the requests for input .... > > > > 1. has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ? or why did you > > stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? > > > > 2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to studying > WP > > and its plugins ? > > > > 3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' > > revIgniter). > > > > I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter > > + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just does" (in > > a well documented, well tested, etc. way) so that I don't need to think > or > > learn about them, etc. - I love it. > > - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency on > > 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of my > code > > in the IDE, with debugging etc. help. > > - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces (or > > seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content within the > > view files, and has no clear way to use "themes" > > > > The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') part > > of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on ''pages' and > > 'themes' (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other parts > of > > revIgniter). > > > > do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to remove > > the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the reduced > > complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a higher > percentage > > within the Ide, etc. ? > > > > Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc. > > > > Alex. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From andre at andregarzia.com Fri Dec 1 20:07:39 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 23:07:39 -0200 Subject: [OT] The Internet is Living on Borrowed Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, A friend of mine gave a talk at BrazilJS entitled "the end of the web", be aware that BrazilJS is the largest Javascript conference in the world, so this is quite a spotlight (I gave a talk there this year too). He later posted an article with same content in English at https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.html This might interest you. Many developers, me included, are looking at decentralized solutions like SecureScuttlebutt and DAT. Cheers On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Bob, > > > Well it must be true. It was on the internet. > > Funny enough, we are on the Internet, too. :-D > Staying outside the looping groundhog day! > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/ > > Jokes aside, I have to pause for a while to catch up > with pending projects and new ideas. > Too much to do and too little time. > > Al > > On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Alejandro Tejada > wrote: > > > > This is Bryan Lunduke's today advice about the Internet: > > > > "Use the Internet for what it's good for. > > Enjoy it. Plan for it not existing" > > > > http://lunduke.com/2017/11/28/the-internet-is-living-on-borrowed-time/ > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VD_pJOFnZ0 > > > > Recently, I asked a similar question in slashdot: > > https://ask.slashdot.org/story/17/11/13/2319243/ask-slashdot-which- > softwaredevices-are-unusable-without-connecting-to-the-internet/ > > > > Surprisingly, most slashdot answers suggests that too many developers > > actually are resigned to live in this brave new world of software and > devices > > that stubbornly and needlessly requires 24/7 internet access to keep > working. :-( > > > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Dec 1 20:46:37 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:46:37 -0800 Subject: Q re multilingual mobile apps In-Reply-To: <1DC2311B-191D-421C-AC7F-C58E7CD0EDEC@livecode.org> References: <1DC2311B-191D-421C-AC7F-C58E7CD0EDEC@livecode.org> Message-ID: <9a2d3c81-3a87-5ccc-85b3-9b553642116f@fourthworld.com> Good find, Paul. Thanks. I'll pass that tip along. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Paul Hibbert wrote: > According to the dictionary, you should be able to use > mobileCurrentLocale(), but I don?t know what the specific results > would be, as the dictionary example states ?en_US? whereas the > equivalent result shown in the settings on iOS is ?English (U.S.)?, > so some careful investigations may be necessary. > >> On 1 Dec 2017, at 09:22, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Interesting question in the forums that has me stumped: >> >> If you have an app where you've worked out multilingual support, what function can we call to determine the device's current language setting? >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30081 >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 22:17:34 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 22:17:34 -0500 Subject: Livecode Content Management System Message-ID: Andre Garzia wrote: > If you choose to store your data on flat files and use git > on that folder, you get branching, rollback and backups > for free for your CMS. Those data flat files could be stored as base64 encoded text files, Right? Al From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 06:48:59 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 13:48:59 +0200 Subject: Trapping multiple keystrokes: deliberately misunderstanding this thread In-Reply-To: <16014a4aa40.2783.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <8f480692-49cb-1305-347d-af93e4d20796@researchware.com> <93f378bc-8db6-c1c5-7a9d-10dbcef0c178@researchware.com> <16014a4aa40.2783.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: So, today I had a meeting with a young man who is attempting to buck the trend and do his high-school programming project using LiveCode against the disapproval of his teacher (who admits her objection to LC is because she knows nothing about it). Anyway, this chap wants to do some stuff messing around with music and create effects by depressing one or more keys on the keyboard at the same time . . . Not being particularly musical myself (if fiddle lessons from 7 to 14 getting almost nowhere are discounted) . . . I thought I'd just knock together a stack doing other things with multiple key presses . . . And, with Arrow keys coupled with other keyDowns there is absolutely no problem at all. Richmond. From jacques.clavel at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 11:38:46 2017 From: jacques.clavel at gmail.com (Jacques Clavel) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 17:38:46 +0100 Subject: [OT] The Internet is Living on Borrowed Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very interesting. Thanks Andre to share this link. -- Jacques Clavel 2017-12-02 2:07 GMT+01:00 Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > Hey, > > A friend of mine gave a talk at BrazilJS entitled "the end of the web", be > aware that BrazilJS is the largest Javascript conference in the world, so > this is quite a spotlight (I gave a talk there this year too). He later > posted an article with same content in English at > https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.html > > This might interest you. Many developers, me included, are looking at > decentralized solutions like SecureScuttlebutt and DAT. > > Cheers > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Bob, > > > > > Well it must be true. It was on the internet. > > > > Funny enough, we are on the Internet, too. :-D > > Staying outside the looping groundhog day! > > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/ > > > > Jokes aside, I have to pause for a while to catch up > > with pending projects and new ideas. > > Too much to do and too little time. > > > > Al > > > > On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Alejandro Tejada > > wrote: > > > > > > This is Bryan Lunduke's today advice about the Internet: > > > > > > "Use the Internet for what it's good for. > > > Enjoy it. Plan for it not existing" > > > > > > http://lunduke.com/2017/11/28/the-internet-is-living-on-borrowed-time/ > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VD_pJOFnZ0 > > > > > > Recently, I asked a similar question in slashdot: > > > https://ask.slashdot.org/story/17/11/13/2319243/ask-slashdot-which- > > softwaredevices-are-unusable-without-connecting-to-the-internet/ > > > > > > Surprisingly, most slashdot answers suggests that too many developers > > > actually are resigned to live in this brave new world of software and > > devices > > > that stubbornly and needlessly requires 24/7 internet access to keep > > working. :-( > > > > > > Al > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andre at andregarzia.com Sat Dec 2 15:48:12 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 18:48:12 -0200 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alejandro, You could but there lies a question of why should you do it? The idea of storing flat files is that they are easy to edit by a human. Most flat file CMSs use Markdown plus a frontmatter in YAML these days and that is really a good system. Check out GravCMS, Jekyll, Metalsmith, Hexo, for some examples. cheers On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 1:17 AM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Andre Garzia wrote: > > If you choose to store your data on flat files and use git > > on that folder, you get branching, rollback and backups > > for free for your CMS. > > Those data flat files could be stored as base64 encoded > text files, Right? > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Dec 3 04:26:15 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 01:26:15 -0800 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> References: <83a7bdb5-3880-4e7a-4a39-f709161fbe9b@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I was talking about this with a couple programmer friends recently. It seems almost a right of passage these days for devs to start making a custom CMS. Some even finish them. :) All of them learn useful things. One of my friends learned to really appreciate Jekyll. The other splits his time between Django and WordPress. Neither uses their own CMS. LiveCodeJournal.com is completely driven by a not-yet-full-featured CMS made with LC, all the way down to the data store. And as Robert Brenstein kindly noted, between my humble WebMerge product and some of the more recent work I've done building web authoring tools for clients, I've had lots of time to explore the corners of making a custom CMS in LiveCode. Right now I'm studying Drupal. Why would someone who enjoys LC as much as I do and who's already done so much foundational work set it aside to use an off-the-shelf (OTS) system? There are many good things that can be done with LC as a CMS. And I'm not entirely sure I'm completely done with that sort of thing. Maybe this conversation will turn me around. But for now let me outline my own journey with regard to custom vs OTS CMS. It may not apply to your needs, but it's how I got here. Like anyone else, I started with a list of Pros and Cons (some of this may seem Drupal-focused, but only because that's what I'm learning right now; it really applies to just about any good OTS CMS). Pros for Custom CMS: - It works exactly how I want it to (usability). - It has exactly the features I want, and nothing more (lean systems are more performant, and with fewer moving parts often more secure). - A standalone admin app further mitigates risk (GMTA Andre ). - It's fun (good to have a hobby). It's usually easy for me to come up with a list of reasons to indulge in some fun programming, but that's all I came up with in terms of things unique to a custom CMS. Once I decided to be honest with myself, the downsides flowed like ink from Kerouac's pen. Cons against Custom CMS: - No matter how much I complain about the learning curve of CMSes, building one from scratch will take far more time. Realistically, at least an order of magnitude. Some features, two orders. - When I need some extra feature in an OTS CMS, I add it in one click. When I need a feature in a custom CMS, I have to architect it, and design it, and test it, and then hope it works well with all the other parts, and hope it'll be flexible enough to handle other parts I haven't written but will inevitably need down the road. - Drupal has been used to make 1.2 million sites. That's a lot of field testing. I have fewer sites. A lot fewer. Two, actually. If I work hard for months I might be able to turn my custom CMS into something others can use. That could bring the number of sites up to maybe 12. - Drupal has had more than 900 contributors. If I do an excellent job delivering a great, polished CMS with good docs, release it as GPL, and manage it through Github, I might some day see as many as a dozen contributors. - With a custom CMS, to use it on a client site I'm basically saying, "I have an unusual toolkit that may or may not work on your server, and if it does you'll have to work with me forever because I'm the only one who knows how it works". If I use an OTS CMS I'm saying, "Any of more than a million developers can help you at any time." I prefer to keep clients because they like my work, not because they have no choice. - Drupal development pays well. Learning it expands my range of service offerings. A custom CMS is just another LC project, in which I'm the only client. - CSS really is fiddly and takes a lot of work to get everything right. With a custom CMS I'm fiddling and testing on multiple platforms and multiple device types. With an OTS CMS I just use what's already there and it works. - Account management is a non-trivial scope. Wordpress has two basic user types: authenticated users who work on the site, and unauthenticated visitors. Drupal adds a third that's particularly useful for some of the sites I have down the road, an authenticated visitor, making forums and other social media much easier to implement. In a custom CMS I'm working all that out on my own, all the way down to tedious details like password reset. - I prefer server-side HTML rendering, but will still need an API for both the admin tool and another aggregation/pubsub tools/bots I'll need later on. With a custom CMS I'll have to study good REST design (though I have found some excellent articles recently), and write the APIs, which will likely mean writing a Sinatra/Spark-like framework for them first. With an OTS CMS I just click a checkbox to turn it on and then start using it. - If I'm lucky enough to have a site that becomes popular, with PHP-based CMSes I have options to move up to FastCGI or even an Apache module if needed. With LC I'm limited to CGI only. - I'm sure as heck not going to also write my own commenting system. The spam filter alone is more than I want to bite off, and then there's the whole editing UI, account management, reporting, alerting, etc. In a custom CMS I'd be using Disqus, which is easy but it means that data lives elsewhere and I will never have any control over it. With Drupal I can keep commenting internal like everything else, manage it how I like, and integrate user content with other features in flexible ways. - Defining project-specific roles, editorial workflows, versioning, and the other things needed for group authoring still needs to be set up in Drupal, but using built-in tools that make most of those just a few clicks. You can imagine how much work that is to design and build from scratch in a custom CMS. - Good theming systems are not easy to design or to build. - Same with templating languages. - As much as a standalone appeals to me for admin and even authoring, I have to say I've come to enjoy being able to work on my Drupal site from anywhere, on any device, without having to first install another app on it. Drupal is a joy to work with even on my phone. - Drupal (and WP and other well-maintained systems) has an entire security team. I'm just me. And I wear a lot of hats. - The ten thousand other things I haven't yet encountered but inevitably will if I were to continue rolling my own CMS. And perhaps most important of all: - I need working web sites more urgently than I need yet another CMS. As a gadgeteer, this was not an easy decision to make. And perhaps if my schedule changes I may get back to custom CMSes. It *is* fun. But for now, and for the things I'm working on, Drupal is an especially good fit, and it's difficult for me to justify the expense of reproducing Drupal from scratch on my own. YMMV. Excelsior... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Alex Tweedly wrote: > I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, etc. > > Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've > been either building a new website for someone, or making significant > changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the > changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it > to use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress. > > And I've tried - but every time I've foundered on not being able to get > the site to be what I want, or realizing (believing?) that to do what I > want requires real development skills within WP - and therefore too much > of a learning curve and/or too much PHP. Or, I've decided that to make > it a bearable experience I need to use multiple add-ons (plugins, > themes, etc.) and then found that the plugins I spent hours > investigating and choosing were incompatible. Or were just not well > enough documented. > > [ I won't tell you how often I've found a (video) tutorial, wasted an > entire hour or more watching it - then realized that it was for an > out-of-date version of the plugin, or an old version of Wordpress, and > that all the helpful screenshots showed me how to modify settings / > actions that didn't exist, or had no obvious equivalent, in the current > versions. ] > > Twice, having run into brick walls with Wordpress, I've tried other CMSs > (Concrete5 and ??Dolphin??) with similar results - poor / out-of-date > docs have left me stranded - 80% of the way towards doing what I wanted > and unable to get any further. > > So in every case until now, I've given up, made tweaks / extensions to > my own "home-grown" web site tool(s), and - so far - completed my > enhancements in less time than I had wasted trying the "real" CMS. > > I put that down to: > - the power of Livecode > - the power of revIgniter (thank you ! again, Ralf) > - my impatience in trying to learn new tools > > But now I have a new, bigger opportunity / challenge - I've been asked > to build a web site (actually two unrelated web sites) which are bigger > and more complex, and for which I absolutely do not want to become the > de facto on-going (content) maintainer. > > So, I've decided to build LCMS - a Livecode Content Management System. > > It will be (very loosely) based on what I think are the useful ideas in > Wordpress (but without any tendency towards blogs). It will be > relatively simple. > > It won't be: > - smooth, slick and all-powerful like WP > - able to support (initially, and for some time) real independent > development of themes, plugins, auto-loading and updating, etc. etc. > (yada, yada, yada ...) - that might be done in a few [= 2 to 20 years] > > It will be : > - based on Livecode (and extensible in LC) > - (I hope) simple and easy (for a LC developer) to understand, use and > extend > - complete with at least one complete theme (based on Botstrap) > - (at some point) open source, on github, etc. under MIT liceense > - documented in some old-fashioned way (i.e. written, searchable, > skimmable tutorials - few or no Youtube videos to waste your time) > > OK - enough of the advertising pitch :-) > > Here are the requests for input .... > > 1. has anyone tried this before ? and did you succeed ? or why did you > stop ? any foreseeable problems to contend with ? > > 2. am I just tilting at windmills and I should just go back to studying > WP and its plugins ? > > 3. the current prototype is based on (or rather 'is written over' > revIgniter). > > I have very conflicting opinions of revIgniter > + it's wonderful, it has a huge quantity of things it "just does" > (in a well documented, well tested, etc. way) so that I don't need to > think or learn about them, etc. - I love it. > - (a) it is intimately tied to LC server, with heavy dependency on > 'include' so it's impossible to (as I would want to do) test 99% of my > code in the IDE, with debugging etc. help. > - (b) I *really* dislike the "rigLoadView" scheme - it forces (or > seems to force) far too much co-mingling of code and content within the > view files, and has no clear way to use "themes" > > The current version of LCMS simply ignores the 'View' (and 'Model') part > of revIgniter, and generates all its output based on ''pages' and > 'themes' (and 'menus') - but it sill benefits from all the other parts > of revIgniter). > > do you think it would be worth the (considerable) effort needed to > remove the dependency on rvIgniter in the hope of benefiting from the > reduced complexity, hopefully lower overhead, easier debugging a higher > percentage within the Ide, etc. ? > > Thanks for any suggestions, input, etc. > > Alex. From dave at applicationinsight.com Sun Dec 3 07:57:01 2017 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 12:57:01 +0000 Subject: Livecode Content Management System Message-ID: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> Hi Alex My instinct would be to build on revIgniter rather than start another (possibly competing) project - I would be much more likely to contribute to an enriched revIgniter than to two disjointed projects My two penneth? Kind regards Dave Alex Tweedly wrote: > I'm looking for (initial) interest, previous experience, comments, etc. > > Every few [ = 4 to 8] months for the last few [= 2 to 3] years, I've > been either building a new website for someone, or making significant > changes/enhancements to an existing one. Almost every time, unless the > changes are very small, I've decided that I really *should* convert it > to use a 'proper' CMS - e.g. Wordpress. > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Dec 3 11:30:18 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 08:30:18 -0800 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> References: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: Dave Kilroy wrote: > My instinct would be to build on revIgniter rather than start another > (possibly competing) project - I would be much more likely to > contribute to an enriched revIgniter than to two disjointed projects revIgniter is one of the best open source projects in the LiveCode community. Ralf's work has been truly exemplary, with a solid implementation, some of the best docs for any such system, and an unusually responsive support that shows him fixing bugs and refining features in near-real time. It may be that revIgniter is an excellent fit for what Alex has in mind. But if we look at web frameworks for other languages, we see most languages have more than one framework. This is natural and to be expected, since not every web development workflow will be identical. Consider CMSes made with Python: Nearly 20 in that list, each addressing a set of needs different from the others, so that collectively Python can be used in a very wide range of contexts. I believe this is where LiveCode will inevitably wind up some day as well. Or at least so I hope. In the Python world, the most popular CMS by far is Django, and all others pale by comparison in popularity. I suspect the same will remain true with revIgniter for the foreseeable future; the quality of Ralf's stewardship will retain its valuable position in our community. But I would not discourage exploration of other ways of working. Any single framework will embody one way of thinking, and no matter how good it is other thought is possible. I think it's a sign of a healthy platform when an ecosystem has more than just one of a given resource type. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dave at applicationinsight.com Sun Dec 3 16:26:23 2017 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 21:26:23 +0000 Subject: Livecode Content Management System Message-ID: <5E4105CC-08AB-4AE2-9F5A-86F118D28225@applicationinsight.com> Well of course if you put it that way I don?t want to do anything to discourage exploration, let a 1,000 flowers bloom etc and I?d love to see a LC CMS However our community IS a lot smaller than Python?s... Kind regards Dave Richard Gaskin wrote: > revIgniter is one of the best open source projects in the LiveCode > community. Ralf's work has been truly exemplary, with a solid > implementation, some of the best docs for any such system, and an > unusually responsive support that shows him fixing bugs and refining > features in near-real time. > > It may be that revIgniter is an excellent fit for what Alex has in mind. > > But if we look at web frameworks for other languages, we see most > languages have more than one framework. This is natural and to be > expected, since not every web development workflow will be identical. > > Consider CMSes made with Python: > > > > Nearly 20 in that list, each addressing a set of needs different from > the others, so that collectively Python can be used in a very wide range > of contexts. > > I believe this is where LiveCode will inevitably wind up some day as > well. Or at least so I hope. > > In the Python world, the most popular CMS by far is Django, and all > others pale by comparison in popularity. I suspect the same will remain > true with revIgniter for the foreseeable future; the quality of Ralf's > stewardship will retain its valuable position in our community. > > But I would not discourage exploration of other ways of working. Any > single framework will embody one way of thinking, and no matter how good > it is other thought is possible. > > I think it's a sign of a healthy platform when an ecosystem has more > than just one of a given resource type. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Dec 3 18:01:17 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:01:17 -0600 Subject: Sending a message to users that floats above everything In-Reply-To: <1c378f09289c8962f0faf192b448bf55@livecode.com> References: <950CE409-2C3E-46EB-A124-995658A30CEA@gmail.com> <15e05745a68.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <1c378f09289c8962f0faf192b448bf55@livecode.com> Message-ID: <0d2f0594-b810-7ac3-1424-12ee2d3b4515@hyperactivesw.com> Bump. I think the team has forgotten about the PR for the Android toast. Anyone want to try their hand at making it in LCB? On 8/21/17 12:25 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-08-21 17:41, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> Monte's external works great on newer Android devices but seems to >> crash on older ones. That's why I had to replace it with a hacked up >> fake in my Android object library. There's a pull request in git for a >> native toast that is waiting for review and as soon as it's available >> I will switch to it. It's been waiting for a while, I hope it gets >> attention soon. Answer dialogs aren't appropriate for any OS any more. > > Oops - that one slipped off our radar a bit (actually there's another PR > from HedgeHao which has been languishing for a while fixing a bug in the > browser widget... Sorry @HedgeHao). I'll see if I can get them sorted > out tomorrow. > > I wonder whether the 'toast' one might make a nice example of using LCB > though - there are only three calls needed to do it. So I might convert > it to LCB as an exercise - it makes it easier for others to adapt; and > is a lot lower overhead than having it in C++/Java in the engine. > HedgeHao has already done the hard part of figuring out the APIs to use, > and how to use them :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay???????? |???? jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software?????????? |???? http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> >> On August 21, 2017 6:28:54 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >>> I will check that out - thanks Dave >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 5:18 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Jonathan - how about a toast? (on Android that is), I haven?t tested >>>> it but I would assume it would appear above a browser? >>>> >>>> Monte did an external some time ago (mergAndroid I think) that I?m >>>> pretty sure included support for toasting :) >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Dave -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at appisle.net Sun Dec 3 18:09:05 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 10:09:05 +1100 Subject: Sending a message to users that floats above everything In-Reply-To: <0d2f0594-b810-7ac3-1424-12ee2d3b4515@hyperactivesw.com> References: <950CE409-2C3E-46EB-A124-995658A30CEA@gmail.com> <15e05745a68.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <1c378f09289c8962f0faf192b448bf55@livecode.com> <0d2f0594-b810-7ac3-1424-12ee2d3b4515@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On 4 Dec 2017, at 10:01 am, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Bump. > > I think the team has forgotten about the PR for the Android toast. Anyone want to try their hand at making it in LCB? Actually Mark already did it in LCB but the PR is waiting for him to add some docs and notes: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5860 If you are keen you can download the file and compile it locally. Cheers Monte From brian at milby7.com Sun Dec 3 18:22:14 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 23:22:14 +0000 Subject: Sending a message to users that floats above everything In-Reply-To: References: <950CE409-2C3E-46EB-A124-995658A30CEA@gmail.com> <15e05745a68.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <1c378f09289c8962f0faf192b448bf55@livecode.com> <0d2f0594-b810-7ac3-1424-12ee2d3b4515@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: There are actually 2 PRs for toast... one LCB and another in the engine itself. 5860 & 5018 On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 5:09 PM Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 4 Dec 2017, at 10:01 am, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Bump. > > > > I think the team has forgotten about the PR for the Android toast. > Anyone want to try their hand at making it in LCB? > > Actually Mark already did it in LCB but the PR is waiting for him to add > some docs and notes: > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5860 < > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5860> > > If you are keen you can download the file and compile it locally. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Dec 3 18:53:59 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:53:59 +0100 Subject: LiveCodeStars Message-ID: My end-of-this-year gift to the community is dedicated to the LC Team, especially to the makers of the browser widget. **LiveCodeStars** It is a hybrid of LC animation and (via javascript) CSS transforms. see "Sample Stacks" or http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/853/ [ Find some additional info to platforms and LC versions here http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=161032#p161032 ]. From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sun Dec 3 19:33:28 2017 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:33:28 +0000 Subject: LiveCodeStars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Herman, That's fun! A Star Wars style crawler. Perhaps you could put more of a description of what it does on the Share page so people know what you've done. All the best Sean Cole *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* www.pidigital.co.uk +44(1634)402193 +44(7702)116447 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no box!' 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of, but it is yourself!' eMail Ts & Cs Pi Digital Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609 On 3 December 2017 at 23:53, hh via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > My end-of-this-year gift to the community is dedicated to the LC Team, > especially to the makers of the browser widget. > > **LiveCodeStars** > > It is a hybrid of LC animation and (via javascript) CSS transforms. > see "Sample Stacks" or > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/853/ > > [ Find some additional info to platforms and LC versions here > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=161032#p161032 ]. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 4 00:33:07 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 21:33:07 -0800 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <5E4105CC-08AB-4AE2-9F5A-86F118D28225@applicationinsight.com> References: <5E4105CC-08AB-4AE2-9F5A-86F118D28225@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: <079d7960-cfc2-9fab-a1bf-cf0620070fef@fourthworld.com> Dave Kilroy wrote: > Well of course if you put it that way I don?t want to do anything to > discourage exploration, let a 1,000 flowers bloom etc and I?d love > to see a LC CMS > > However our community IS a lot smaller than Python?s... I am sometimes prone to fits of optimism. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From irog at mac.com Mon Dec 4 00:51:03 2017 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 21:51:03 -0800 Subject: LiveCodeStars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25E1E6D8-9A79-497B-9F10-A541CFD3ABD3@mac.com> Very nice, Herman!! > On Dec 3, 2017, at 3:53 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > My end-of-this-year gift to the community is dedicated to the LC Team, > especially to the makers of the browser widget. > > **LiveCodeStars** > > It is a hybrid of LC animation and (via javascript) CSS transforms. > see "Sample Stacks" or > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/853/ > > [ Find some additional info to platforms and LC versions here > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=161032#p161032 ]. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From david.bovill at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 05:42:48 2017 From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 10:42:48 +0000 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> References: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: I don't see much value in building a CMS or CMS front end. There is value in a CMS, but not I'd saying in making another CMS. Build on revIgniter as Dave says? On 3 December 2017 at 12:57, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Alex > > My instinct would be to build on revIgniter rather than start another > (possibly competing) project - I would be much more likely to contribute to > an enriched revIgniter than to two disjointed projects > Rather than replicating a tradition CMS, I would see taking an "opinionated" approach to the software design. Build on the strengths and uniqueness of Livecode, and modern concepts such as continuous deployment. revIgniter as it stands can be part of an authoring platform, but the published output should be a modern static site, using the curated best of componentised and responsive HTML5 design. revIgniter in that context becomes part of the authoring environment, but not the deployment environment. Would love to work with people on this. From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 06:32:00 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 06:32:00 -0500 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? Message-ID: <37B8919A-E847-4C21-91D8-CE9E2E670199@gmail.com> In looking at node.js it seems that two things stand out - LC server waits for the database to send a reply, rather than setting an event listener, and perhaps node.js launches faster when a request comes in? Is this accurate? Could LC server be modified to run as fast as node? I would love to feel comfortable using LC server for millions of users simultaneously - which I realize would take more than just speeding up the server software. Sent from my iPhone From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Dec 4 06:41:49 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:41:49 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 109 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #109 here: https://goo.gl/kYEVvD This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 07:47:00 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 07:47:00 -0500 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: <37B8919A-E847-4C21-91D8-CE9E2E670199@gmail.com> References: <37B8919A-E847-4C21-91D8-CE9E2E670199@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thinking about this further... Could we set up LiveCode to run on a VPS, so it is always live and listening to a port. When a request comes in, it would use TSnet to send an asynchronous request to a local database. When TSnet gets the callback, it passes the data back to LC, which processes it and passes the information to the user through the port. This would always be asynchronous and thus never get hung up waiting for a long request. It seems like it could be quite fast. Would that work? Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 4, 2017, at 6:32 AM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > In looking at node.js it seems that two things stand out - LC server waits for the database to send a reply, rather than setting an event listener, and perhaps node.js launches faster when a request comes in? > > Is this accurate? Could LC server be modified to run as fast as node? I would love to feel comfortable using LC server for millions of users simultaneously - which I realize would take more than just speeding up the server software. > > Sent from my iPhone From andre at andregarzia.com Mon Dec 4 09:50:38 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 12:50:38 -0200 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: Taking a tangential line of thought in this thread, I think there is value in exploring "more focused" or "less flexible" solutions than complete CMSs to gauge the feasibility of a CMS project. Specially if it is something like David said that leverages the Desktop value of LC while spewing out static files. A simple landing page creation tool could fit the bill. There is a lot of need for landing pages, they all look the same in terms of features (and visuals unfortunately), and should be doable with less work than a full CMS. Building such small tools would enable our community to understand the web better and how to bridge our both worlds of LC and Web. So far, most of our web efforts have been "PHP-inspired", as in our server engine behaves like PHP and our frameworks look and feel like PHP frameworks. RevIgniter and my old RevSpark, are basically PHP frameworks in a different language but PHP is not on the bleeding edge of web development anymore. There are many other ways of doing web work that are closed to us and who knows what will be possible five years from now. Any tool built today, in any language, with aspirations to be webby should be generating a PWA. Generating a simple barebones progressive web app (this is not your old progressive enhancement) boilerplate is quite easy. The new features such as WASM (which is implemented in all major browsers already), Service/Shared/Web Workers, and all the other APIs from the web platform are all awesome but working with them require a a not so quick learning curve. LC could help create flexible tools that generate code, and I am talking beyond the current HTML5 deployment (which I don't own a license and can't play with), I am talking about using the power of our long living IDE and language to invent our own tools. I believe that LC is great for writing tools and time is best spent writing tools than products (unless the tool is the product). On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 8:42 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I don't see much value in building a CMS or CMS front end. There is value > in a CMS, but not I'd saying in making another CMS. Build on revIgniter as > Dave says? > > On 3 December 2017 at 12:57, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Alex > > > > My instinct would be to build on revIgniter rather than start another > > (possibly competing) project - I would be much more likely to contribute > to > > an enriched revIgniter than to two disjointed projects > > > > Rather than replicating a tradition CMS, I would see taking an > "opinionated" approach to the software design. Build on the strengths and > uniqueness of Livecode, and modern concepts such as continuous deployment. > revIgniter as it stands can be part of an authoring platform, but the > published output should be a modern static site, using the curated best of > componentised and responsive HTML5 design. revIgniter in that context > becomes part of the authoring environment, but not the deployment > environment. Would love to work with people on this. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 10:23:03 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:23:03 -0700 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: While not exactly a CMS, I used LC as a paypal button code generator (encrypted buttons using openssl as the basis.) My little program generates a complete paypal button for each item and stores it in an sqlite database. It also takes an image drop and generates 2 sizes for the gallery I use. A basic page template was hand created for each category. This made things easy enough for my friend to maintain the items catalog, and adjust the website on her own with little intervention from me. A new page is as simple as copying an old one, changing a little bit of text, and adjusting the category number used for pulling items from the database. This is why I love lc. Even _I_ can make useful things for myself and others. In this particular case, theres the added benefit that they can do most of their work on a local machine and limit time spent waiting on their horrid connection.. Make adjustments till happy, upload any new/changed images -- using a simple sync program -- upload the adjusted sqlite file and voila' done. On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 7:50 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Taking a tangential line of thought in this thread, I think there is value > in exploring "more focused" or "less flexible" solutions than complete CMSs > to gauge the feasibility of a CMS project. Specially if it is something > like David said that leverages the Desktop value of LC while spewing out > static files. A simple landing page creation tool could fit the bill. There > is a lot of need for landing pages, they all look the same in terms of > features (and visuals unfortunately), and should be doable with less work > than a full CMS. > > Building such small tools would enable our community to understand the web > better and how to bridge our both worlds of LC and Web. So far, most of our > web efforts have been "PHP-inspired", as in our server engine behaves like > PHP and our frameworks look and feel like PHP frameworks. RevIgniter and my > old RevSpark, are basically PHP frameworks in a different language but PHP > is not on the bleeding edge of web development anymore. There are many > other ways of doing web work that are closed to us and who knows what will > be possible five years from now. > > Any tool built today, in any language, with aspirations to be webby should > be generating a PWA. Generating a simple barebones progressive web app > (this is not your old progressive enhancement) boilerplate is quite easy. > The new features such as WASM (which is implemented in all major browsers > already), Service/Shared/Web Workers, and all the other APIs from the web > platform are all awesome but working with them require a a not so quick > learning curve. LC could help create flexible tools that generate code, and > I am talking beyond the current HTML5 deployment (which I don't own a > license and can't play with), I am talking about using the power of our > long living IDE and language to invent our own tools. I believe that LC is > great for writing tools and time is best spent writing tools than products > (unless the tool is the product). > > > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 8:42 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I don't see much value in building a CMS or CMS front end. There is value > > in a CMS, but not I'd saying in making another CMS. Build on revIgniter > as > > Dave says? > > > > On 3 December 2017 at 12:57, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Alex > > > > > > My instinct would be to build on revIgniter rather than start another > > > (possibly competing) project - I would be much more likely to > contribute > > to > > > an enriched revIgniter than to two disjointed projects > > > > > > > Rather than replicating a tradition CMS, I would see taking an > > "opinionated" approach to the software design. Build on the strengths > and > > uniqueness of Livecode, and modern concepts such as continuous > deployment. > > revIgniter as it stands can be part of an authoring platform, but the > > published output should be a modern static site, using the curated best > of > > componentised and responsive HTML5 design. revIgniter in that context > > becomes part of the authoring environment, but not the deployment > > environment. Would love to work with people on this. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Dec 4 10:24:06 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 15:24:06 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 Message-ID: Dear List Members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.8 Stable. By "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in 8.1.8, compared to the previous Stable release. LiveCode 8.1.8 contains 36 bug fixes and new features, compared to LiveCode 8.1.7. You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via the automatic updater. Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ Warmest regards, The LiveCode Team -- From andre at andregarzia.com Mon Dec 4 10:43:06 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:43:06 -0200 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like these emails a lot but I would like them even more if they contained a direct link to the release notes :D On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:24 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dear List Members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.8 Stable. By > "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in > 8.1.8, compared to the previous Stable release. > > LiveCode 8.1.8 contains 36 bug fixes and new features, compared to LiveCode > 8.1.7. > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via > the automatic updater. > > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > Warmest regards, > The LiveCode Team > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 11:06:12 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 16:06:12 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Andre, Sorry, I should have included a direct link to the Release Notes (I usually do :) ) http://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/8_1_8/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_8.pdf Best, Panos -- On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I like these emails a lot but I would like them even more if they contained > a direct link to the release notes :D > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:24 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Dear List Members, > > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.8 Stable. By > > "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in > > 8.1.8, compared to the previous Stable release. > > > > LiveCode 8.1.8 contains 36 bug fixes and new features, compared to > LiveCode > > 8.1.7. > > > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > via > > the automatic updater. > > > > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > > Warmest regards, > > The LiveCode Team > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Mon Dec 4 11:12:25 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 17:12:25 +0100 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <06AB7E58-1761-4042-ACFB-9C01DDD4380F@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 04.12.2017 um 17:06 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hi Andre, > > Sorry, I should have included a direct link to the Release Notes (I usually > do :) ) > > http://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/8_1_8/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_8.pdf you exspected a laborious second mouseclick from our little "spanish" friend? How dare you? :-D > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I like these emails a lot but I would like them even more if they contained >> a direct link to the release notes :D Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Dec 4 11:29:24 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 17:29:24 +0100 Subject: tsNet and proxy servers? Charles? Message-ID: <009701d36d1d$0c31b620$24952260$@kestner.de> Hello, I am using very simple "put URL myUrl.php into myResult". Since Version 8 (and still in 8.1.4) I have again and again institutional customers like schools or government networks with proxys and firewalls, where the tsNet doesn't succeed to connect to myServer thru the proxys with different error messages. My old LC 6.x went thru those proxies without any problems after having set the proxy data into the httpheaders. I can't find any version # in the tsNet files, so I can't exactly tell, which version of tsNet I am using in LC 8.1.4, perhaps it is 1.2.8. Since I have a backdoor in my program without connecting to the internet and thoses admins don't like long testing and debugging procedures I couldn't dig any deeper to get more details yet and always had to offer a quick workaround to those customers. And I can't reproduce the issue here. 1. Is this a known issue and any solution in progress? (Charles?) 2. Is this issue perhaps already solved in 8.1.7 or higher? (Charles?) Thanks Tiemo From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 4 12:13:07 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 09:13:07 -0800 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: jonathandlynch wrote: > Thinking about this further... > > Could we set up LiveCode to run on a VPS, so it is always live and > listening to a port. When a request comes in, it would use TSnet to > send an asynchronous request to a local database. When TSnet gets the > callback, it passes the data back to LC, which processes it and passes > the information to the user through the port. > > This would always be asynchronous and thus never get hung up waiting > for a long request. It seems like it could be quite fast. Would that > work? I don't even think we'd need tsNet for that. Sockets should suffice for communicating between backend services, and using the "with messages" option makes them async; indeed that single-threaded message-driven approach is a big part of what makes Node.js so performant, offloading as much as practical from the process thread to the OS. A while back Pierre Sahores posted some benchmarks here related to these sorts of explorations, generally quite flattering to LC. Of course the LC engine is made by a small team in Edinburgh while JS has millions opf $ invested from some of the largest companies in the world, so we may want to temper expectations of comparative performance accordingly. But for a wide range of workloads, LC-based daemons can work well with backend services, at least much more efficiently than relying on the CGI model. The bigger question re. LC on the backend is perhaps why we're having this discussion at all: if performance is critical enough for us to work out LC daemons from scratch, why not just use an existing toolkit for that work and enjoy the advantages of a large ecosystem of prefab solutions? And that's the chickens-and-eggs of this: until we have such a large community of prefabs the cost-effectiveness will continue to favor current leaders, but without someone starting such an effort we have little choice but to use current leaders and thus it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Software evangelism is tricky business. And when building business infrastructure, our responsibility to the company owners requires us to ask whether evangelizing a personal favorite language is a higher priority than delivering a cost-effective robust solution ASAP. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Dec 4 12:34:40 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 17:34:40 +0000 Subject: LiveCodeStars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74DA78B7-6003-48D3-8A92-1BC1EFA8F8E9@iotecdigital.com> Cool, but it moves so fast I read about 1/10th of the text and I am exaggerating. :-) Bob S > On Dec 3, 2017, at 15:53 , hh via use-livecode wrote: > > My end-of-this-year gift to the community is dedicated to the LC Team, > especially to the makers of the browser widget. > > **LiveCodeStars** > > It is a hybrid of LC animation and (via javascript) CSS transforms. > see "Sample Stacks" or > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/853/ > > [ Find some additional info to platforms and LC versions here > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=161032#p161032 ]. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Mon Dec 4 12:37:13 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 15:37:13 -0200 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: <06AB7E58-1761-4042-ACFB-9C01DDD4380F@major-k.de> References: <06AB7E58-1761-4042-ACFB-9C01DDD4380F@major-k.de> Message-ID: huahuaahuahuahu you're all just too awesome! Panos, thanks a lot for the link :D On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Panos, > > > Am 04.12.2017 um 17:06 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hi Andre, > > > > Sorry, I should have included a direct link to the Release Notes (I > usually > > do :) ) > > > > http://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/8_1_8/ > LiveCodeNotes-8_1_8.pdf > > you exspected a laborious second mouseclick from our little "spanish" > friend? > How dare you? :-D > > > Best, > > Panos > > -- > > > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> I like these emails a lot but I would like them even more if they > contained > >> a direct link to the release notes :D > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From hh at hyperhh.de Mon Dec 4 12:39:39 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 18:39:39 +0100 Subject: ColorChooser for LC 6/7/8/9 on MacOS 10.13 Message-ID: <0A0A0D49-3C42-4280-BD74-EC0C7A8474DF@hyperhh.de> Recently, there were several neat stacks on "Sample Stacks" that use LC 8/9 (a newer stackfileversion) and would be also useful on LC 6/7. The main reason for that, if not using widgets, was probably that on MacOS 10.13, using LC 6/7, closing the colorChooser ("answer color") **CRASHES** LiveCode immediately. This bug will never be removed for LC 6/7. It has been removed for the latest LC 8/9 versions. So, in order to use your own LC 6/7 stacks on MacOS 10.13, you need an **own color chooser** dialog. I made a simple version, that switches on a LiveCode version > 7 to the usual color dialog (use latest version of LC 8 or LC 9 which has removed the crashing bug). [And it is also usable for HTML5 standalones (use only the LC 6/7 chooser there).] See "Sample Stacks/ColorChooser6789" or livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/854/ For example, I converted the new "scrollbarOmatic" stack by Roger Guay to LC 6/7 with a single conversion script. Now they run fine on MacOS 10.13 on LC 6/7/8/9 (and on Raspi LC 6.5.1/7.0.4, which also need stackfileversion 5.5). From andre at andregarzia.com Mon Dec 4 12:53:08 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 15:53:08 -0200 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: IMHO opinions it is not fair to compar NodeJS and LC Server on merits of performance because they are really different beasts, I will try to digress a little about why I think this below. NodeJS is the union of two things, one of which is the lightning fast JS Engine from Google called V8 and the other is libuv for handling events. This works well because JS has always been an asynchronous language on the front-end. This leads to a programming style that is not as straight forward as the one we're used. We had the "callback hell" in JS for a long time where the request for doing something was decoupled from the response of that call, it worked well but it was hard to follow. That was made easier with the introduction of "Promises" which you may know as "Future" from other languages which made the asynchronous flow more explicit and easy to follow and now finally there are async/await calls like the ones from C#. All this changes both inside the language itself and on top of it in form of syntatic sugar serves one purpose only, give the developer good ergonomics while keeping the code asynchronous/non-blocking. LiveCode is not an asynchronous language. It has some APIs that work asynchronously when we want them to, but it is not a non-blocking engine. All our "PUT URLs" calls are blocking, which is one of the reasons that early attempts (or toys like the ones I built) to ship an LC based Web Server suffer from an easily DDOS architecture. Languages don't need to be non-blocking or asynchronous to be good. LC is good. NodeJS is also good. They are not necessarily good for the same stuff though. Also remember that NodeJS uses V8 which along with Mozillas own SpiderMonkey engine has strong JIT features and can basically compile your source at runtime into x86 instructions (at least the hot parts of the code). There are millions invested in JS engine, both in terms of money and in terms of developer-hours. It is not something easily replicable unless of course you're a robot from the future like Mike Pall is and build LuaJIT alone (an engine that for a long time outperformed every other JIT engine). Your original email about scaling anything to millions of users doesn't outline some needs of working at that scale. Most of us don't work on that scale. That kind of scale, is the kind where people start looking at how a database places stuff in RAM so that fetches are easier by just multiplying funky pointers, the kind of scale where a node balancer and a devops team on call is necessary just for your development server to be alive and useful. LC Sever works pretty well if you have thousands of users, you just need to be able to shift some gears and use the client-side of the web better. A PWA that talks with an LC Server will require much less power on the server-side than a server rendered one like what we usually build here. If you have millions of users, then you can scale horizontally by adding more servers... On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > jonathandlynch wrote: > > > Thinking about this further... > > > > Could we set up LiveCode to run on a VPS, so it is always live and > > listening to a port. When a request comes in, it would use TSnet to > > send an asynchronous request to a local database. When TSnet gets the > > callback, it passes the data back to LC, which processes it and passes > > the information to the user through the port. > > > > This would always be asynchronous and thus never get hung up waiting > > for a long request. It seems like it could be quite fast. Would that > > work? > > I don't even think we'd need tsNet for that. Sockets should suffice for > communicating between backend services, and using the "with messages" > option makes them async; indeed that single-threaded message-driven > approach is a big part of what makes Node.js so performant, offloading as > much as practical from the process thread to the OS. > > A while back Pierre Sahores posted some benchmarks here related to these > sorts of explorations, generally quite flattering to LC. Of course the LC > engine is made by a small team in Edinburgh while JS has millions opf $ > invested from some of the largest companies in the world, so we may want to > temper expectations of comparative performance accordingly. But for a wide > range of workloads, LC-based daemons can work well with backend services, > at least much more efficiently than relying on the CGI model. > > The bigger question re. LC on the backend is perhaps why we're having this > discussion at all: if performance is critical enough for us to work out LC > daemons from scratch, why not just use an existing toolkit for that work > and enjoy the advantages of a large ecosystem of prefab solutions? > > And that's the chickens-and-eggs of this: until we have such a large > community of prefabs the cost-effectiveness will continue to favor current > leaders, but without someone starting such an effort we have little choice > but to use current leaders and thus it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. > > Software evangelism is tricky business. And when building business > infrastructure, our responsibility to the company owners requires us to ask > whether evangelizing a personal favorite language is a higher priority than > delivering a cost-effective robust solution ASAP. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 4 13:12:03 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 10:12:03 -0800 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a093583-348e-7806-9cfb-b91f1bfaf6a4@fourthworld.com> Andre Garzia work: > So far, most of our web efforts have been "PHP-inspired", as in our > server engine behaves like PHP and our frameworks look and feel like > PHP frameworks. Thank you for bringing that up. There are a great many design decisions with the LC Server CGI that do mirror the PHP model very specifically. We don't see that devotion to PHP in the ways people use Ruby, Lua, Python, or others on servers. Those languages are used in ways that emphasize their own flavor. But with LC, the preoccupation with mirroring the PHP model has given us a system that is in some ways incompatible with the core language: You cannot run LC Server scripts with the LC desktop engine. There are workarounds for that, but I miss the original CGI solution which let us use native LC script without requiring us to comingle it within HTML. The current LC Server engine has been enhanced to allow that, but in a way that unfortunately maintains its incompatibility with the desktop engine: the original CGI solution was handler-based, and used "on startup" as the entry point; the newer LC Server engine allows you to have lines of code outside of HTML, but expects those outside of any handler declaration. Odd, and unfortunate as it not only prevents us from using that in the desktop engine but also introduces yet another "sometimes" rule in a language otherwise consistent with its handler declarations. For these and other reasons I tend to use standalones for CGI work instead of LC Server. Oh, the joys of emulating server behavior so easily right on the desktop where I have all my tools and debuggers! I've been tempted to refine and document the standalone method for others, but it's still unclear to me whether there's enough growth in using LC CGIs to warrant what would then be a niche of a niche, or instead focus on tools to migrate LC systems to Node.js or others where the ecosystem makes them an easy sell for stakeholders. > ...PHP is not on the bleeding edge of web development anymore. That is of course true, but I would caution against discarding ecosystem for fashion. Being bleeding edge may be exciting for devs, but delivery of a working system is the goal for stakeholders. PHP may be old, but it's also competent, designed for a job it often handles reasonably well. As #8 on the TIOBE Index, I don't see it going away any time soon. When it does what you need, it can be a good choice. And most needs are pretty modest. > Any tool built today, in any language, with aspirations to be webby > should be generating a PWA. Generating a simple barebones progressive > web app (this is not your old progressive enhancement) boilerplate is > quite easy. > The new features such as WASM (which is implemented in all major > browsers already), Service/Shared/Web Workers, and all the other APIs > from the web platform are all awesome.... The browser is a very capable, flexible platform. The features you outline there are wonderful enhancements that will move app development forward very powerfully. But not everything on the web is an app per se. Much of it is content. Indeed, content is the focus of a CMS. The distinction between a "web page" and a "web app" is subtle and not universally agreed on, so I won't bother to attempt to define it here. Suffice to assume that we at least all agree that there is a difference. For a "web app", of course that will be driven by JavaScript; as the only language included in all browsers, there is not choice in the matter. We may translate from other things to JavaScript, and package the JavaScript in different ways, and ultimately with interaction in a browser it's JavaScript just the same. For a "web page", I feel it's important to deliver content that can render without JS dependency. In this era of rampant malware it's becoming increasingly common for savvy users to keep JS blockers active, turning them off only as needed on specific pages, and only specific scripts. Tedious, but less so than restoring from backup after ransomware. And tragically, many (most?) ad networks do little if any filtering for malware in the code they deliver into your computer. They may complain about JS blockers, but until they begin to take practical measures for protecting recipients of their code, their networks are, in effect, potential malware delivery systems. I look forward to the day when they prove me wrong on that. There are other reasons why JS blockers are increasingly popular, but the result is something that's become important to me, and others who have a vested interest in content delivery: we build content pages in which JS is optional if used at all, so that the content which the user came to read is always available, not dependent on JS. So as much as I value APIs to deliver data without HTML formatting, when the request comes from a browser I prefer to wrap the HTML before delivery. There are tradeoffs either way, but for me the tradeoff that favors security and quick rendering is a higher priority for content pages than saving a few k in delivery time over modern fast networks. The TL;DR relevant here: We have many options available, and many different needs. Whatever Alex finds as the best fit for the specific CMS he's aiming to build will hopefully reflect less any fashion or trends or technologies among the nearly infinite range at his disposal as it will reflect an understanding of what constitutes an excellent UX for visitors of the sorts of sites he's looking to build. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 13:20:39 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 20:20:39 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congratulations! Richmond. On 4/12/17 5:24 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Dear List Members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.8 Stable. By > "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in > 8.1.8, compared to the previous Stable release. > > LiveCode 8.1.8 contains 36 bug fixes and new features, compared to LiveCode > 8.1.7. > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via > the automatic updater. > > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > Warmest regards, > The LiveCode Team > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Mon Dec 4 13:21:42 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 19:21:42 +0100 Subject: LiveCodeStars Message-ID: <586F8217-99D6-4807-83E0-D64FE2B5C610@hyperhh.de> > Bob S. wrote: > Cool, but it moves so fast I read about 1/10th of the text and > I am exaggerating. :-) Your machine's CPU/GPU combination is from next generation. Though I removed a small bug (that made LC 9 run 30% too fast). Now you could play with the param d of "hhAnim". The fact is that the self-made-animation using LiveCode is here smoother than the CSS3 @keyframes (which could be also applied). If you use it in a production version, you could test the speed of the user's CPU/GPU combination and set from that the param d (for slow machines add another param dy and"subtract dy from x" in the handler "hhAnim"). From beugelaar at solidit.nl Mon Dec 4 13:37:55 2017 From: beugelaar at solidit.nl (Erik Beugelaar -Solidit) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 19:37:55 +0100 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: <00a301d36d2f$01712880$04537980$@solidit.nl> FWIW in this discussion: Digital Pome Granate has published on GitHub a LC to WordPress 2.0 API layer, see https://github.com/digitalpomegranate/livecode-wp-restapi, so you have already the option to develop the structure of a website in WordPress using their CMS capabilities (theme, menu, users, rights, boilerplate etc) and develop the native desktop client in LiveCode to 'fill' the WordPress database via an user friendly and powerful GUI app, developed in LiveCode running on top of Windows, Mac and Linux operating systems. No browser needed and fast using sockets. Further in The Netherlands students have developed a Bootstrap 4 WYSIWYG Web Editor called Mobirise: https://mobirise.com/ which can be a starting point to put on top a LiveCode desktop client for CMS if you want full control over HTML5/CSS3. Just my two cents. -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andre Garzia via use-livecode Sent: 04 December 2017 15:51 To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Andre Garzia Subject: Re: Livecode Content Management System Taking a tangential line of thought in this thread, I think there is value in exploring "more focused" or "less flexible" solutions than complete CMSs to gauge the feasibility of a CMS project. Specially if it is something like David said that leverages the Desktop value of LC while spewing out static files. A simple landing page creation tool could fit the bill. There is a lot of need for landing pages, they all look the same in terms of features (and visuals unfortunately), and should be doable with less work than a full CMS. Building such small tools would enable our community to understand the web better and how to bridge our both worlds of LC and Web. So far, most of our web efforts have been "PHP-inspired", as in our server engine behaves like PHP and our frameworks look and feel like PHP frameworks. RevIgniter and my old RevSpark, are basically PHP frameworks in a different language but PHP is not on the bleeding edge of web development anymore. There are many other ways of doing web work that are closed to us and who knows what will be possible five years from now. Any tool built today, in any language, with aspirations to be webby should be generating a PWA. Generating a simple barebones progressive web app (this is not your old progressive enhancement) boilerplate is quite easy. The new features such as WASM (which is implemented in all major browsers already), Service/Shared/Web Workers, and all the other APIs from the web platform are all awesome but working with them require a a not so quick learning curve. LC could help create flexible tools that generate code, and I am talking beyond the current HTML5 deployment (which I don't own a license and can't play with), I am talking about using the power of our long living IDE and language to invent our own tools. I believe that LC is great for writing tools and time is best spent writing tools than products (unless the tool is the product). On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 8:42 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I don't see much value in building a CMS or CMS front end. There is > value in a CMS, but not I'd saying in making another CMS. Build on > revIgniter as Dave says? > > On 3 December 2017 at 12:57, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Alex > > > > My instinct would be to build on revIgniter rather than start > > another (possibly competing) project - I would be much more likely > > to contribute > to > > an enriched revIgniter than to two disjointed projects > > > > Rather than replicating a tradition CMS, I would see taking an > "opinionated" approach to the software design. Build on the strengths > and uniqueness of Livecode, and modern concepts such as continuous deployment. > revIgniter as it stands can be part of an authoring platform, but the > published output should be a modern static site, using the curated > best of componentised and responsive HTML5 design. revIgniter in that > context becomes part of the authoring environment, but not the > deployment environment. Would love to work with people on this. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 4 13:40:24 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 10:40:24 -0800 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Andre Garzia wrote: > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: ... >> I don't even think we'd need tsNet for that. Sockets should suffice >> for communicating between backend services, and using the "with >> messages" option makes them async; indeed that single-threaded >> message-driven approach is a big part of what makes Node.js so >> performant, offloading as much as practical from the process thread >> to the OS. ... > IMHO opinions it is not fair to compar NodeJS and LC Server on merits > of performance because they are really different beasts... ... > All this changes both inside the language itself and on top of it > in form of syntatic sugar serves one purpose only, give the developer > good ergonomics while keeping the code asynchronous/non-blocking. > > LiveCode is not an asynchronous language. It has some APIs that work > asynchronously when we want them to, but it is not a non-blocking > engine. The stylistic differences, and their implications in implementation, is indeed important. Thanks for that outline. Google's massive investment in JS will be hard to match for anyone seeking to deliver equivalent systems. Which leaves us asking: When you want something like Nide.js, why not just use Node.js? > All our "PUT URLs" calls are blocking... Take a second look at the original libURL code. IIRC, in the course of exploring some other issues in which what I wanted was truly sync behavior but finding it difficult to actually achieve it, it seems libURL is using the "with messages" option for socket calls, and where sync is needed that's emulated within an async socket method. Not sure why, and I've been tempted to write my own HTTP client code just to make sure I get truly sync behavior when I need it (hoping I'll find a way to get that with tsNet once I get back to that problem). But if it's of interest, take a gander at libURL and let me know if I've overlooked something. If nothing else I'll finally have the true sync behavior I'm looking for. But we may also find that socket comms in LC, when using the "with messages" option, use callbacks in a way that efficiently leverages OS integration. Of course this alone doesn't put LC on par with Node.js, for all the reasons you noted. But it does potentially offer opportunities for reasonably efficient socket comms, which may be esp. useful on backends where all we need are sockets, not necessarily encumbered with also supporting HTTP on top. > Your original email about scaling anything to millions of users > doesn't outline some needs of working at that scale. If I ever wrote that I was drunk. But I don't recall writing that; it's not consistent with my thinking. I've done enough testing on the C10k problem to be well aware of the challenges of attempting C10m. When big systems are needed, big ecosystems help. As a right-tool-for-the-right-job kinda guy, I generally advocate industry standards for such things. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 13:48:58 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:48:58 -0500 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems. I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that Richard was part of. It was very informative. I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 4, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Andre Garzia wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > ... > >> I don't even think we'd need tsNet for that. Sockets should suffice > >> for communicating between backend services, and using the "with > >> messages" option makes them async; indeed that single-threaded > >> message-driven approach is a big part of what makes Node.js so > >> performant, offloading as much as practical from the process thread > >> to the OS. > ... > > IMHO opinions it is not fair to compar NodeJS and LC Server on merits > > of performance because they are really different beasts... > ... > > All this changes both inside the language itself and on top of it > > in form of syntatic sugar serves one purpose only, give the developer > > good ergonomics while keeping the code asynchronous/non-blocking. > > > > LiveCode is not an asynchronous language. It has some APIs that work > > asynchronously when we want them to, but it is not a non-blocking > > engine. > > The stylistic differences, and their implications in implementation, is indeed important. Thanks for that outline. > > Google's massive investment in JS will be hard to match for anyone seeking to deliver equivalent systems. > > Which leaves us asking: When you want something like Nide.js, why not just use Node.js? > > > > > All our "PUT URLs" calls are blocking... > > Take a second look at the original libURL code. IIRC, in the course of exploring some other issues in which what I wanted was truly sync behavior but finding it difficult to actually achieve it, it seems libURL is using the "with messages" option for socket calls, and where sync is needed that's emulated within an async socket method. > > Not sure why, and I've been tempted to write my own HTTP client code just to make sure I get truly sync behavior when I need it (hoping I'll find a way to get that with tsNet once I get back to that problem). > > But if it's of interest, take a gander at libURL and let me know if I've overlooked something. If nothing else I'll finally have the true sync behavior I'm looking for. But we may also find that socket comms in LC, when using the "with messages" option, use callbacks in a way that efficiently leverages OS integration. > > Of course this alone doesn't put LC on par with Node.js, for all the reasons you noted. But it does potentially offer opportunities for reasonably efficient socket comms, which may be esp. useful on backends where all we need are sockets, not necessarily encumbered with also supporting HTTP on top. > > > > Your original email about scaling anything to millions of users > > doesn't outline some needs of working at that scale. > > If I ever wrote that I was drunk. But I don't recall writing that; it's not consistent with my thinking. I've done enough testing on the C10k problem to be well aware of the challenges of attempting C10m. > > When big systems are needed, big ecosystems help. As a right-tool-for-the-right-job kinda guy, I generally advocate industry standards for such things. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 4 14:06:23 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:06:23 -0800 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <631a7210-ffc7-8c0a-c711-3f83e7a283eb@fourthworld.com> jonathandlynch wrote: > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems. Scaling is a fascinating problem. I found the C10k problem a good starting point (in recent years supplanted with C10m): > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that > Richard was part of. It was very informative. I usually just quote Pierre or Andre, but once in a while my OCD habits with benchmarking add something useful. :) > I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it > sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle > a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity. Node.js is good where Node.js is needed. In some cases NginX is good. In other cases Lighttpd is fine. And in many cases Apache is fine, even with simple CGI. Most of us never need to think about C10m, or even C10k. If we do, that's a wonderfully fortunate problem to have. Just having that problem makes it much easier to get funding to solve it with specialists. Let the t-shirts sort it out while the suits focus on strategy. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Dec 4 15:52:03 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 15:52:03 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: and don't update xcode... On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 10:24 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dear List Members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.8 Stable. By > "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in > 8.1.8, compared to the previous Stable release. > > LiveCode 8.1.8 contains 36 bug fixes and new features, compared to LiveCode > 8.1.7. > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via > the automatic updater. > > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > Warmest regards, > The LiveCode Team > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From livfoss at mac.com Mon Dec 4 17:47:52 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 23:47:52 +0100 Subject: Naive Player Questions Message-ID: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Hi - perhaps due to not picking the right search terms in the documentation, I am confused about playing audio files in LC 8. What I want seems quite simple to me: I want the user to click a button which will cause a single MP3 file to play. While it plays I may or may not want to switch cards or use visual effects. When it stops, I want to take back control and move the program onto something else. It appears that I have to use a player object to play MP3s, since the ?play? comment will only play aiffs. OK, so I can create a player object, but I want to embed my MP3 file into it (since I have no need to play more than one file), I want to start it, and I want the option to do stuff while it?s playing, and I certainly want to do stuff when it stops. The documentation is not good on this - there is no indication as to whether you can embed files (if you can?t, what would the path to a file included in the program look like - I can only see paths referring to files in my development environment)? There is one reference in Beginner?s Guide to a ?play stopped? message, but there isn?t one in the User Guide. My old friend ?wait until the sound is done? seems to have died of old age. How do I know when the sound is finished, or alternatively how can I know if it?s still playing? Can anyone explain what I?m supposed to do, or (just as good) point me to the right bit of LC documentation? TIA Graham From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 20:25:45 2017 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:25:45 +0800 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: References: <63B7FDF0-88AF-47A4-8019-881093FE5580@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: <1F7D9AF8-238C-41DA-9835-C47E12D621F2@gmail.com> Andre > I am talking beyond the current HTML5 deployment (which I don't own a > license and can't play with) I thought that you can deploy to HTML5 with the community licence. The GPL wouldn?t put you off playing with it, would it? Peter From alex at tweedly.net Mon Dec 4 20:51:43 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 01:51:43 +0000 Subject: Livecode Content Management System In-Reply-To: <4a093583-348e-7806-9cfb-b91f1bfaf6a4@fourthworld.com> References: <4a093583-348e-7806-9cfb-b91f1bfaf6a4@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: So many interesting, thoughtful and thought-provoking responses - I am overwhelmed. Thank you. I can't reply to each of them - flooding the list with 24 responses would be somewhat anti-social :-), so I'll arbitrarily pick the most recent (as I type) and respond to it, with responses to various points. A number of people have made perfectly sensible suggestions, musings or "project proposals"? that would constitute useful "CMS's to play to LC's strengths, and avoid simply re-inventing existing wheels which already in another language. I would love to do (or contribute to) many of those - but I know I don't have the time or immediate need for them. So (for me, for now) that rules out David's static-site generator scheme, Andre's PWA and even much of Andre's Desktop with API. I will definitely take David's advice ("be opinionated " :-), and I will be mindful of the fact that 3 of the people whose opinions I most respect (Ralf, Andre and Richard) all said something along the lines of "stop - it's a huge task - make sure you know what you're getting into .." :-) So here's my current take (sorry for the very long email) "CMS" is a broadly defined beast and it's important to fovus on what you want it to mean. To Ralf's point about the need for large amounts of "front-end" effort, in-line editing, and "lots of Javascript" - that's true, for a certain kind of CMS you would indeed need that - and I wouldn't even consider building such a thing. The websites I have done to date (and am about to update and build some more of) have people (not very tech-savvy) whom I would call "content editors" adding / maintaining the *content* using simple web forms (no JS, just plain-old html "Web 1.5" forms) and Markdown-lite. I am happy for them to continue that, they had no difficulty understanding a simplified version of markdown - I mostly want to make it easier for myself (and other "site-creators") to enable this, i.e. provide simple, easy, built-in access to forms and "db"-update mechanisms without extra work for each new site. Again - this should be *content* management only - whether the site itself uses Bootstrap, or JQuery, or *any* other technology is entirely up to the site creator, and the 'CMS' should allow that. (Note - when investigating Wordpress, I really liked Visual Composer for in-line editing and page layout - until I discovered that it was incompatible with Pods Custom Post Type extension for anything beyond a simple list - without significant PHP coding). So the page content definition (described below) is simple - should cover 95% of all actual pages :-) And, finally for my "intro" - my preference has always been to put this on top of revIgniter - and the responses have confirmed that no-one would regard that as a disadvantage or problem - so I feel comfortable with my original preference. Also, I have realized that my concerns about the "rigLoadView" mechanism are misplaced - it's not "a problem that they don't fit well with themes", in fact, it's a "solution that a folder full of 'views' *is* one good way to define a theme". On 04/12/2017 18:12, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > We have many options available, and many different needs.? Whatever > Alex finds as the best fit for the specific CMS he's aiming to build > will hopefully reflect less any fashion or trends or technologies > among the nearly infinite range at his disposal as it will reflect an > understanding of what constitutes an excellent UX for visitors of the > sorts of sites he's looking to build. Here's what I am aiming at: Summary: based on top of revIgniter, this will provide a controller script to display any and all pages, with simple, easy-to-understand and easy-to-use mechanisms to allow multiple people with varying skill-sets to create, build, maintain a web site of simple to moderate complexity. The long version : revIgniter will be the base technology. LCMS (or whatever more descriptive name I can think of) will provide a primary controller script which will display pages as required, as well as a set of web pages for updating the site content. A "site creator" will create (and maintain) the site - providing the (core) set of pages, the menus setup, choosing (or creating/extending) a theme and setting up the initial admin interface; a fairly tech-savvy person, most likely a LC scripter though I would hope that the majority of straightforward sites such as I usually help people with will be doable without any new coding). A "site maintainer" will extend / update / modify the site content - the info in the pages, uploading images or other media assets, etc. (Not necessarily tech-savvy - but with some clue - able to edit markdown text for simple content, and perhaps to copy/update simple command sets). [Some page changes might be more structural and need the "site creator", depending on the tech comfort level of the sit maintainer.] An RDBMS (e.g. MySQL) will be used (as in the revIgniter default), providing user management, etc., but (to allow the possibility of Git-based roll-back, etc.) a number of features will be flat-file based. So the things needed in a site are: a theme: themes should be *site-independent* - i.e. usable with no change (or an inheritance-based extension mechanism) on many sites. These define whether (and more importantly) how (i.e. the html code snippets as well as JS and CSS assets) to implement high-level constructs (page headers for different page types, snippets for common features such a banners, galleries, carousels, responsive grids of images / mini-pages, etc.?? Themes will be implemented as a set of view files in a View folder. As such, they are pretty "techy" and will be defined by a "site creator" or perhaps a them creator for general use.? (NB first release won't include the inheritance/extension mechanism; hey, I'll be licky if there are two themes defined in it? :-) menu and controller definition : the 'controller' definiton might well be standard (i.e. only using the built-in features), or might need to be extended for a site that needed custom coding. The menu definition simply determines what pages are shown in the menu. pages: the (initial) set of pages to be available on the site; note this includes those directly available from the menu as well as possibly others. These are flat-files (so suitable for Git-control). Each one has a (optional set of intro definitions) and a simple text description of the content. See below for definition of content. A simple "media uploader / manager". This will be needed for images, audio clips, etc. It will be *simple*, i.e.? upload a file or a few files at a time, no fancy JS drag / drop / select, fill in category / tag / etc. form entries., etc.? (Can probably also be used to upload other things (e.g. markdown text files) for anyone who wants to do it that way.)? This currently will automatically build specific sized versions of the images on upload (i.e. it won't automatically resize on each access - that requires too much smarts on caching that I don't have :-); these can be referred to as "thumb", "small", "medium" and "large" - while the actual definition of those sizes can be set by the site creator. Custom DB types: the site creator can determine custom DB Objects to be used on the site. (Versions >1 might allow these to be DB or flat-file ??)? These define the fields, field types, etc. in the DB, and automatically generate a simple (dumb, ugly) form page to edit them. Now we are ready for "Page Content" Each page is described by a simple text file (flat file, in /user/pages"). There will be some meta data (cf Grav CMS) optionally? at the head of the file, but the main file will consist of a series of 'directives': ? ? "set", ??? "Banner", ??? "Carousel", ??? "mdl", ??? "html", ??? "image" (more to come ...) Any text outside these directive blocks will be simply output as is; probably shouldn't be any of this. A directive begins with? a line enclosed in "[" and "]" with only whitespace outside the brakcets, and has a directive name and possibly argument, followed by "," and a number of 'details' each separated by comma. In general, the theme will need to define one or more snippets related to each of these directives. So it is assumed that the theme will have an entry for 'banner', etc. The current set of directives is : "banner" [banner, where Category=banner, orderby id=random] Produces a full width banner image. The 'where' and 'orderby' clauses are basically passed to the DB selection (of media asset type 'image')); in my case, all images with category 'banner' are panoramas and I want any random one of them. "carousel" [carousel, where category=hotel, name mycarousel] Produces an image carousel (named so we can have more than one on a page). "image" [image size reference alternative text to show] "size" is one of thumb, small, medium, large reference is either a number (th eID) or the shortname of an image alternative text to show is the 'alt text' (Note - this should match the custom addition to Markdown - see below) "html" [html ] The following lines (up to one saying?? [html end] are html text and should be passed through unchanged. is not yet really defined, but will expect to? match something in the theme. "mdl" [mdl ] The following lines up "mdl end" are Markdown-Lite text. is not yet fully defined, but will expect to? match something in the them - currently only using "text-section" to include the header/footer for a simple text section. 'mdl' stands for Markdown-lite - only handles basic forms of Markdown (tbd elsewhere), but does also include some special forms for LCMS ?? - !![text](image)??? - refers to an image from the media library, by either id or shortname ????? NB the "text" part is image size reference alt text - to match a "image" directive), while the part in ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? parens is ignored ?? - ![text](image)????? - standard Markdown ?? -? ...[visible](url)??? - standard markdown, except that if 'url' ends with "*" or "_NEW_TAB, then it will ??? ??? ??? open in a new tab, and if [visible] == [fb] then it will generate a Facebook link. ?? (other social media to come in later versions) and (keeping the best for last :-) "set" [set businesses, where Category=hotel, title Hotels, count=3, template businesses_grid] Produces the output for a set of objects; the object type (e.g. 'business') determines the DB table, while the 'where' and 'orderby' clauses would filter and sort those objects, and a template can be defined to specify how they should be displayed, the title is a mini-header before the display, and the 'count' determines how many should be shown per row. This is, obviously, the most complex and powerful of the directives; note that it expects (requires) that the theme will specify both header and footer snippets for each of "section", "row" and "item", while the format of the entry for the actual object is specified in the "Content" field of the "template" specified. It is perhaps worth pointing out here that the html snippets *surrounding* each object are part of theme (i.e. they define how to put something *into* a "n"-grid, while the content template cannot be part of the theme, because it will be dependent on the values to be displayed - i.e. it's site-specific. I hope to have this cleared-up in my mind, and an initial prototype done for Christmas (which should allow an initial upload to Github by New Years's). Later, Alex. P.S. a page similar to https://www.kilmelford.com/igniter.lc/basic/Businesses would therefore be created by the page definition: [mdl text_section]
## Business Directory If you run a business in this area and would like to be included, please use our Contact Info. If your business is already included, and any of the contact etc. data has changed, please give your input via the contact page. The day/time/place information for visiting services (mobile library, bank) can be found on the [Services Page](services) .
[mdl end] [set businesses, where Category=hotel, title Hotels, template businesses_grid] [set businesses, where category=B_and_b, title Bed & Breakfasts, template businesses_grid] [set businesses, where Category=eating, title Places to eat, template businesses_grid] [set businesses, where Category=activity, title Activities, template businesses_grid] [set businesses, where Category=interest, title Places of interest, template businesses_grid] [set businesses, where Category=business, title Businesses, template businesses_grid] [set businesses, where Category=government, title Government, template businesses_grid] From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 05:50:44 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:50:44 +0200 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: <7140280e-84b8-a4cc-58d5-8df0e1a073f7@gmail.com> https://www.dropbox.com/s/phplc4g1noardab/Carrot.livecode.zip?dl=0 No player object: on Macintosh the mp3 file comes out as "squishy noise". Richmond. On 5/12/17 12:47 am, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > Hi - perhaps due to not picking the right search terms in the documentation, I am confused about playing audio files in LC 8. What I want seems quite simple to me: I want the user to click a button which will cause a single MP3 file to play. While it plays I may or may not want to switch cards or use visual effects. When it stops, I want to take back control and move the program onto something else. > > It appears that I have to use a player object to play MP3s, since the ?play? comment will only play aiffs. OK, so I can create a player object, but I want to embed my MP3 file into it (since I have no need to play more than one file), I want to start it, and I want the option to do stuff while it?s playing, and I certainly want to do stuff when it stops. > > The documentation is not good on this - there is no indication as to whether you can embed files (if you can?t, what would the path to a file included in the program look like - I can only see paths referring to files in my development environment)? There is one reference in Beginner?s Guide to a ?play stopped? message, but there isn?t one in the User Guide. My old friend ?wait until the sound is done? seems to have died of old age. How do I know when the sound is finished, or alternatively how can I know if it?s still playing? > > Can anyone explain what I?m supposed to do, or (just as good) point me to the right bit of LC documentation? > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 06:06:29 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:06:29 +0200 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: Happy, Happy 5th of December: by sheer chance I stumbled on how to do this . . . In fact the whole thing is dead easy (not, admittedly clear from the Dictionary). http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30258&p=161069#p161069 Best, Richmond. On 5/12/17 12:47 am, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > Hi - perhaps due to not picking the right search terms in the documentation, I am confused about playing audio files in LC 8. What I want seems quite simple to me: I want the user to click a button which will cause a single MP3 file to play. While it plays I may or may not want to switch cards or use visual effects. When it stops, I want to take back control and move the program onto something else. > > It appears that I have to use a player object to play MP3s, since the ?play? comment will only play aiffs. OK, so I can create a player object, but I want to embed my MP3 file into it (since I have no need to play more than one file), I want to start it, and I want the option to do stuff while it?s playing, and I certainly want to do stuff when it stops. > > The documentation is not good on this - there is no indication as to whether you can embed files (if you can?t, what would the path to a file included in the program look like - I can only see paths referring to files in my development environment)? There is one reference in Beginner?s Guide to a ?play stopped? message, but there isn?t one in the User Guide. My old friend ?wait until the sound is done? seems to have died of old age. How do I know when the sound is finished, or alternatively how can I know if it?s still playing? > > Can anyone explain what I?m supposed to do, or (just as good) point me to the right bit of LC documentation? > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 06:13:49 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:13:49 +0000 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi all, The command "play ' on desktop plays the file as an audioclip, and audio clips can be in WAV, AIFF, or AU format. If you want to play an mp3 file, you have to use a player object. Best, Panos -- On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Happy, Happy 5th of December: by sheer chance I stumbled on how to do this > . . . > > In fact the whole thing is dead easy (not, admittedly clear from the > Dictionary). > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30258&p=161069#p161069 > > Best, Richmond. > > On 5/12/17 12:47 am, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi - perhaps due to not picking the right search terms in the >> documentation, I am confused about playing audio files in LC 8. What I want >> seems quite simple to me: I want the user to click a button which will >> cause a single MP3 file to play. While it plays I may or may not want to >> switch cards or use visual effects. When it stops, I want to take back >> control and move the program onto something else. >> >> It appears that I have to use a player object to play MP3s, since the >> ?play? comment will only play aiffs. OK, so I can create a player object, >> but I want to embed my MP3 file into it (since I have no need to play more >> than one file), I want to start it, and I want the option to do stuff while >> it?s playing, and I certainly want to do stuff when it stops. >> >> The documentation is not good on this - there is no indication as to >> whether you can embed files (if you can?t, what would the path to a file >> included in the program look like - I can only see paths referring to files >> in my development environment)? There is one reference in Beginner?s Guide >> to a ?play stopped? message, but there isn?t one in the User Guide. My old >> friend ?wait until the sound is done? seems to have died of old age. How do >> I know when the sound is finished, or alternatively how can I know if it?s >> still playing? >> >> Can anyone explain what I?m supposed to do, or (just as good) point me to >> the right bit of LC documentation? >> >> TIA >> >> Graham >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 06:29:59 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 06:29:59 -0500 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: <631a7210-ffc7-8c0a-c711-3f83e7a283eb@fourthworld.com> References: <631a7210-ffc7-8c0a-c711-3f83e7a283eb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: To make this happen, it seems like we would need an external that multithreads database queries and sends the query results back to LC as a new message. It would have to bring in a new ID for each request and return that ID with the result. Can the ODBC external do that? Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 4, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > jonathandlynch wrote: > > > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who > > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness > > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems. > > Scaling is a fascinating problem. I found the C10k problem a good starting point (in recent years supplanted with C10m): > > > > > > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that > > Richard was part of. It was very informative. > > I usually just quote Pierre or Andre, but once in a while my OCD habits with benchmarking add something useful. :) > > > > I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it > > sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle > > a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity. > > Node.js is good where Node.js is needed. In some cases NginX is good. In other cases Lighttpd is fine. And in many cases Apache is fine, even with simple CGI. > > Most of us never need to think about C10m, or even C10k. If we do, that's a wonderfully fortunate problem to have. Just having that problem makes it much easier to get funding to solve it with specialists. Let the t-shirts sort it out while the suits focus on strategy. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Tue Dec 5 06:51:14 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 12:51:14 +0100 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks Panos - I know that. I am however looking for comprehensive instructions as to how to use a player object via script, e.g - embedding an MP3, or alternatively providing a path to the default folder for the MP3 file for standalone creation - starting the player - monitoring the player to see if it?s still running - doing other stuff while it?s running - being told when it?s stopped. AFAIKS none of this is clear in the documentation. If true, this is a big omission! Cheers Graham PS - I imagine I?m not the only one to want to play MP3s because the are vastly smaller than the LC ?native? sound formats. I don?t like to make apps unnecessarily large, especially if they?re going to be delivered via the Internet. > On 5 Dec 2017, at 12:13, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > > The command "play ' on desktop plays the file as an audioclip, > and audio clips can be in WAV, AIFF, or AU format. If you want to play an > mp3 file, you have to use a player object. > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Happy, Happy 5th of December: by sheer chance I stumbled on how to do this >> . . . >> >> In fact the whole thing is dead easy (not, admittedly clear from the >> Dictionary). >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30258&p=161069#p161069 >> >> Best, Richmond. >> >> On 5/12/17 12:47 am, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Hi - perhaps due to not picking the right search terms in the >>> documentation, I am confused about playing audio files in LC 8. What I want >>> seems quite simple to me: I want the user to click a button which will >>> cause a single MP3 file to play. While it plays I may or may not want to >>> switch cards or use visual effects. When it stops, I want to take back >>> control and move the program onto something else. >>> >>> It appears that I have to use a player object to play MP3s, since the >>> ?play? comment will only play aiffs. OK, so I can create a player object, >>> but I want to embed my MP3 file into it (since I have no need to play more >>> than one file), I want to start it, and I want the option to do stuff while >>> it?s playing, and I certainly want to do stuff when it stops. >>> >>> The documentation is not good on this - there is no indication as to >>> whether you can embed files (if you can?t, what would the path to a file >>> included in the program look like - I can only see paths referring to files >>> in my development environment)? There is one reference in Beginner?s Guide >>> to a ?play stopped? message, but there isn?t one in the User Guide. My old >>> friend ?wait until the sound is done? seems to have died of old age. How do >>> I know when the sound is finished, or alternatively how can I know if it?s >>> still playing? >>> >>> Can anyone explain what I?m supposed to do, or (just as good) point me to >>> the right bit of LC documentation? >>> >>> TIA >>> >>> Graham >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 08:17:07 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:17:07 +0000 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Graham, In short: *- embedding an MP3, or alternatively providing a path to the default folder for the MP3 file for standalone creation* Include the .mp3 file (say "myFile.mp3") in the "Copy Files" section. This will be accessible from the **standalone** using the function. * - starting the player* on mouseUp local tFilename put specialfolderpath("resources") & slash & "myFile.mp3" into tFilename // NOTE: In the IDE you'll need the full path to your "myFile.mp3" set the filename of player 1 to tFilename start player 1 end mouseUp * - monitoring the player to see if it?s still running* You can do that by checking "the playmate of player 1". If it is 0, then the player does not play - doing other stuff while it?s running You can do other stuff without problems, as the player does not block them - being told when it?s stopped. Use the "playStopped" message Hope this helps, Panos -- On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Panos - I know that. I am however looking for comprehensive > instructions as to how to use a player object via script, e.g > > - embedding an MP3, or alternatively providing a path to the default > folder for the MP3 file for standalone creation > - starting the player > - monitoring the player to see if it?s still running > - doing other stuff while it?s running > - being told when it?s stopped. > > AFAIKS none of this is clear in the documentation. If true, this is a big > omission! > > Cheers > > Graham > PS - I imagine I?m not the only one to want to play MP3s because the are > vastly smaller than the LC ?native? sound formats. I don?t like to make > apps unnecessarily large, especially if they?re going to be delivered via > the Internet. > > > On 5 Dec 2017, at 12:13, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > The command "play ' on desktop plays the file as an audioclip, > > and audio clips can be in WAV, AIFF, or AU format. If you want to play an > > mp3 file, you have to use a player object. > > > > Best, > > Panos > > -- > > > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Happy, Happy 5th of December: by sheer chance I stumbled on how to do > this > >> . . . > >> > >> In fact the whole thing is dead easy (not, admittedly clear from the > >> Dictionary). > >> > >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30258&p=161069#p161069 > >> > >> Best, Richmond. > >> > >> On 5/12/17 12:47 am, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > >> > >>> Hi - perhaps due to not picking the right search terms in the > >>> documentation, I am confused about playing audio files in LC 8. What I > want > >>> seems quite simple to me: I want the user to click a button which will > >>> cause a single MP3 file to play. While it plays I may or may not want > to > >>> switch cards or use visual effects. When it stops, I want to take back > >>> control and move the program onto something else. > >>> > >>> It appears that I have to use a player object to play MP3s, since the > >>> ?play? comment will only play aiffs. OK, so I can create a player > object, > >>> but I want to embed my MP3 file into it (since I have no need to play > more > >>> than one file), I want to start it, and I want the option to do stuff > while > >>> it?s playing, and I certainly want to do stuff when it stops. > >>> > >>> The documentation is not good on this - there is no indication as to > >>> whether you can embed files (if you can?t, what would the path to a > file > >>> included in the program look like - I can only see paths referring to > files > >>> in my development environment)? There is one reference in Beginner?s > Guide > >>> to a ?play stopped? message, but there isn?t one in the User Guide. My > old > >>> friend ?wait until the sound is done? seems to have died of old age. > How do > >>> I know when the sound is finished, or alternatively how can I know if > it?s > >>> still playing? > >>> > >>> Can anyone explain what I?m supposed to do, or (just as good) point me > to > >>> the right bit of LC documentation? > >>> > >>> TIA > >>> > >>> Graham > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Dec 5 09:40:39 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:40:39 -0200 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: <631a7210-ffc7-8c0a-c711-3f83e7a283eb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Jonathan, It is not that simple. There is no silver bullet that can be added to a language to make it scale by couple orders of magnitude like this. LiveCode engine while is executing your business logic is not doing anything else (it might be tidying up the house bit, I haven't looked at it but it is definitely not executing other parts of your business code). Other languages with support of fibers/coroutines can basically switch what they are doing like an OS with multithreading without actually the threading part. Some other languages support full threads and some even allow you to fork(). But as far as I am aware LC datatypes and workflow is not thread safe (someone familiar with the internals might correct me here) which makes it a time bomb if you go spawning threads. Also thread programming is quite complex and data races are a real problem, Mozilla creation of Rust was in-parts to prevent data races with a safer language, thats how big this problem is, people go and create new languages to solve it. LC bottleneck is not database queries, the queries spend more time inside the database than they do in transit between the revdb external and the rdbms. There is not something that we can bolt on top of the current LC engine to make it behave like nodejs (non-blocking with async language and jit) and that is not even desirable. NodeJS programming requires a ton of tooling and knowledge that is not at all related to whatever business you're trying to solve, LC is much more a pick and go language than NodeJS ever will be. Doing a simple setup of a modern NodeJS sample based on server-side rendering and react will probably download hundreds of megabytes in developer dependencies, just to get the sample to compile. Imagine if one of your stacks required THOUSANDS of little stacks that amounted to HUNDREDS of megabytes on disk, just to load. That is the land of NodeJS, it has its own problems. Other potential solutions for deploying LC based server software have been attempted in the past, I will summarize two of them below as food-for-thoughts. ## THE FASTCGI APPROACH ## Long long time ago, in a Runtime Revolution far far away, I coded a fastcgi stack. Fastcgi is a protocol specification that allows using a single connection (or a pool) to multiplex requests from a server. So using something like a persistent TCP connection to Apache, you could answer multiple requests. The problem with fastcgi and LC is the same as outlined above, while the cgi part was trying to solve something, it would not respond to requests, thats the bottleneck: the blocking code part. Imagine that your cgi needs to fetch a large data set from a file and process it before answering and that this process took 5 seconds. During those seconds, the server would be unresponsive. ## THE ENGINE POOL ## I believe it was Richard who did this, can't recall, it was definitely not me. Keep a pool of engines running, lets say 20, use a node balancer to round robin them. This allows you to answer at least 20 concurrent requests. Then engine pool is only desirable over our normal CGI method in one very specific case: The current LC server is CGI based, so it spawns a new engine for each request, if you're on a memory constrained machine that can't afford this escalation of memory and cpu usage, you keep a pool of engines in a safe threshold and use the pool. I can only see this working well on a raspberry pi, all other cases CGI should work better. ## Curiosity nuggets of semi-related trivia ## Oh, and sometimes even NodeJS is slow, check out this article I wrote couple weeks ago: http://andregarzia.com/en/blog/creating-rust-based-nodejs-modules in which I show a dramatic speedup in a NodeJS codebase by converting the most critical part of the code into a Rust based module. The code used to execute in 3 seconds and went to execute in 150 miliseconds. On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > To make this happen, it seems like we would need an external that > multithreads database queries and sends the query results back to LC as a > new message. It would have to bring in a new ID for each request and return > that ID with the result. > > Can the ODBC external do that? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 4, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > jonathandlynch wrote: > > > > > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who > > > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness > > > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems. > > > > Scaling is a fascinating problem. I found the C10k problem a good > starting point (in recent years supplanted with C10m): > > > > > > > > > > > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that > > > Richard was part of. It was very informative. > > > > I usually just quote Pierre or Andre, but once in a while my OCD habits > with benchmarking add something useful. :) > > > > > > > I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it > > > sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle > > > a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity. > > > > Node.js is good where Node.js is needed. In some cases NginX is good. > In other cases Lighttpd is fine. And in many cases Apache is fine, even > with simple CGI. > > > > Most of us never need to think about C10m, or even C10k. If we do, > that's a wonderfully fortunate problem to have. Just having that problem > makes it much easier to get funding to solve it with specialists. Let the > t-shirts sort it out while the suits focus on strategy. > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 10:16:28 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:16:28 -0500 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: <631a7210-ffc7-8c0a-c711-3f83e7a283eb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thank you Andre, The fact that one of the bottlenecks is in waiting for the database to get the data back is what I was targeting. If LC just sends a request to a different program, and that program spawns a new thread for each request, then LC is free to keep working. In this way, LC would be single-threaded and handling database activities asynchronously. It appears this can be done with using asynchronous http requests sent to a database program with an http plugin, but that seems weird and clunky to me. Just to clarify, I am not trying to multithread with LC or use multiple processes with LC. I am wondering about using multithreading in an external that then sends search results back to LC as they become available. LC would still be single-threaded in this scenario. The end result is that LC keeps working while the database is handling multiple searches. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: > > Jonathan, > > It is not that simple. There is no silver bullet that can be added to a language to make it scale by couple orders of magnitude like this. LiveCode engine while is executing your business logic is not doing anything else (it might be tidying up the house bit, I haven't looked at it but it is definitely not executing other parts of your business code). Other languages with support of fibers/coroutines can basically switch what they are doing like an OS with multithreading without actually the threading part. Some other languages support full threads and some even allow you to fork(). But as far as I am aware LC datatypes and workflow is not thread safe (someone familiar with the internals might correct me here) which makes it a time bomb if you go spawning threads. Also thread programming is quite complex and data races are a real problem, Mozilla creation of Rust was in-parts to prevent data races with a safer language, thats how big this problem is, people go and create new languages to solve it. > > LC bottleneck is not database queries, the queries spend more time inside the database than they do in transit between the revdb external and the rdbms. There is not something that we can bolt on top of the current LC engine to make it behave like nodejs (non-blocking with async language and jit) and that is not even desirable. NodeJS programming requires a ton of tooling and knowledge that is not at all related to whatever business you're trying to solve, LC is much more a pick and go language than NodeJS ever will be. Doing a simple setup of a modern NodeJS sample based on server-side rendering and react will probably download hundreds of megabytes in developer dependencies, just to get the sample to compile. Imagine if one of your stacks required THOUSANDS of little stacks that amounted to HUNDREDS of megabytes on disk, just to load. That is the land of NodeJS, it has its own problems. > > Other potential solutions for deploying LC based server software have been attempted in the past, I will summarize two of them below as food-for-thoughts. > > ## THE FASTCGI APPROACH ## > Long long time ago, in a Runtime Revolution far far away, I coded a fastcgi stack. Fastcgi is a protocol specification that allows using a single connection (or a pool) to multiplex requests from a server. So using something like a persistent TCP connection to Apache, you could answer multiple requests. The problem with fastcgi and LC is the same as outlined above, while the cgi part was trying to solve something, it would not respond to requests, thats the bottleneck: the blocking code part. Imagine that your cgi needs to fetch a large data set from a file and process it before answering and that this process took 5 seconds. During those seconds, the server would be unresponsive. > > ## THE ENGINE POOL ## > I believe it was Richard who did this, can't recall, it was definitely not me. Keep a pool of engines running, lets say 20, use a node balancer to round robin them. This allows you to answer at least 20 concurrent requests. Then engine pool is only desirable over our normal CGI method in one very specific case: The current LC server is CGI based, so it spawns a new engine for each request, if you're on a memory constrained machine that can't afford this escalation of memory and cpu usage, you keep a pool of engines in a safe threshold and use the pool. I can only see this working well on a raspberry pi, all other cases CGI should work better. > > ## Curiosity nuggets of semi-related trivia ## > Oh, and sometimes even NodeJS is slow, check out this article I wrote couple weeks ago: http://andregarzia.com/en/blog/creating-rust-based-nodejs-modules in which I show a dramatic speedup in a NodeJS codebase by converting the most critical part of the code into a Rust based module. The code used to execute in 3 seconds and went to execute in 150 miliseconds. > > >> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >> To make this happen, it seems like we would need an external that multithreads database queries and sends the query results back to LC as a new message. It would have to bring in a new ID for each request and return that ID with the result. >> >> Can the ODBC external do that? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Dec 4, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> > >> > jonathandlynch wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who >> > > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness >> > > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems. >> > >> > Scaling is a fascinating problem. I found the C10k problem a good starting point (in recent years supplanted with C10m): >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that >> > > Richard was part of. It was very informative. >> > >> > I usually just quote Pierre or Andre, but once in a while my OCD habits with benchmarking add something useful. :) >> > >> > >> > > I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it >> > > sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle >> > > a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity. >> > >> > Node.js is good where Node.js is needed. In some cases NginX is good. In other cases Lighttpd is fine. And in many cases Apache is fine, even with simple CGI. >> > >> > Most of us never need to think about C10m, or even C10k. If we do, that's a wonderfully fortunate problem to have. Just having that problem makes it much easier to get funding to solve it with specialists. Let the t-shirts sort it out while the suits focus on strategy. >> > >> > -- >> > Richard Gaskin >> > Fourth World Systems >> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> > ____________________________________________________________________ >> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > -- > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 5 10:53:26 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 15:53:26 +0000 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: <9D28B83F-2AF9-421D-B93D-CD292B371FF7@hindu.org> Panos wrote: You can do that by checking "the playmate of player 1". If it is 0, then the player does not play "playmate" ?? From klaus at major-k.de Tue Dec 5 10:58:59 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 16:58:59 +0100 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: <87439C42-2BEF-4934-968A-2E26985334B8@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 05.12.2017 um 14:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > ... > You can do that by checking "the playmate of player 1". ... where "Player 1" = Hugh Heffner (RIP)? :-D Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 11:05:22 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:05:22 -0500 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: <631a7210-ffc7-8c0a-c711-3f83e7a283eb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <984F92EC-C47C-4F6F-84B6-4957E63C52B7@gmail.com> Hello again - this page describes some of the things I am talking about: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/using-the-non-blocking-library/ If LC had a mechanism to use the non-blocking functions in a database, like the library for MariaDB described in that page, then we could eliminate all of the extra idle time spent waiting for the database to return a result. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2017, at 10:16 AM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > Thank you Andre, > > The fact that one of the bottlenecks is in waiting for the database to get the data back is what I was targeting. If LC just sends a request to a different program, and that program spawns a new thread for each request, then LC is free to keep working. In this way, LC would be single-threaded and handling database activities asynchronously. > > It appears this can be done with using asynchronous http requests sent to a database program with an http plugin, but that seems weird and clunky to me. > > Just to clarify, I am not trying to multithread with LC or use multiple processes with LC. I am wondering about using multithreading in an external that then sends search results back to LC as they become available. LC would still be single-threaded in this scenario. The end result is that LC keeps working while the database is handling multiple searches. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 5, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: >> >> Jonathan, >> >> It is not that simple. There is no silver bullet that can be added to a language to make it scale by couple orders of magnitude like this. LiveCode engine while is executing your business logic is not doing anything else (it might be tidying up the house bit, I haven't looked at it but it is definitely not executing other parts of your business code). Other languages with support of fibers/coroutines can basically switch what they are doing like an OS with multithreading without actually the threading part. Some other languages support full threads and some even allow you to fork(). But as far as I am aware LC datatypes and workflow is not thread safe (someone familiar with the internals might correct me here) which makes it a time bomb if you go spawning threads. Also thread programming is quite complex and data races are a real problem, Mozilla creation of Rust was in-parts to prevent data races with a safer language, thats how big this problem is, people go and create new languages to solve it. >> >> LC bottleneck is not database queries, the queries spend more time inside the database than they do in transit between the revdb external and the rdbms. There is not something that we can bolt on top of the current LC engine to make it behave like nodejs (non-blocking with async language and jit) and that is not even desirable. NodeJS programming requires a ton of tooling and knowledge that is not at all related to whatever business you're trying to solve, LC is much more a pick and go language than NodeJS ever will be. Doing a simple setup of a modern NodeJS sample based on server-side rendering and react will probably download hundreds of megabytes in developer dependencies, just to get the sample to compile. Imagine if one of your stacks required THOUSANDS of little stacks that amounted to HUNDREDS of megabytes on disk, just to load. That is the land of NodeJS, it has its own problems. >> >> Other potential solutions for deploying LC based server software have been attempted in the past, I will summarize two of them below as food-for-thoughts. >> >> ## THE FASTCGI APPROACH ## >> Long long time ago, in a Runtime Revolution far far away, I coded a fastcgi stack. Fastcgi is a protocol specification that allows using a single connection (or a pool) to multiplex requests from a server. So using something like a persistent TCP connection to Apache, you could answer multiple requests. The problem with fastcgi and LC is the same as outlined above, while the cgi part was trying to solve something, it would not respond to requests, thats the bottleneck: the blocking code part. Imagine that your cgi needs to fetch a large data set from a file and process it before answering and that this process took 5 seconds. During those seconds, the server would be unresponsive. >> >> ## THE ENGINE POOL ## >> I believe it was Richard who did this, can't recall, it was definitely not me. Keep a pool of engines running, lets say 20, use a node balancer to round robin them. This allows you to answer at least 20 concurrent requests. Then engine pool is only desirable over our normal CGI method in one very specific case: The current LC server is CGI based, so it spawns a new engine for each request, if you're on a memory constrained machine that can't afford this escalation of memory and cpu usage, you keep a pool of engines in a safe threshold and use the pool. I can only see this working well on a raspberry pi, all other cases CGI should work better. >> >> ## Curiosity nuggets of semi-related trivia ## >> Oh, and sometimes even NodeJS is slow, check out this article I wrote couple weeks ago: http://andregarzia.com/en/blog/creating-rust-based-nodejs-modules in which I show a dramatic speedup in a NodeJS codebase by converting the most critical part of the code into a Rust based module. The code used to execute in 3 seconds and went to execute in 150 miliseconds. >> >> >>> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >>> To make this happen, it seems like we would need an external that multithreads database queries and sends the query results back to LC as a new message. It would have to bring in a new ID for each request and return that ID with the result. >>> >>> Can the ODBC external do that? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> > On Dec 4, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> > >>> > jonathandlynch wrote: >>> > >>> > > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who >>> > > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness >>> > > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems. >>> > >>> > Scaling is a fascinating problem. I found the C10k problem a good starting point (in recent years supplanted with C10m): >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that >>> > > Richard was part of. It was very informative. >>> > >>> > I usually just quote Pierre or Andre, but once in a while my OCD habits with benchmarking add something useful. :) >>> > >>> > >>> > > I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it >>> > > sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle >>> > > a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity. >>> > >>> > Node.js is good where Node.js is needed. In some cases NginX is good. In other cases Lighttpd is fine. And in many cases Apache is fine, even with simple CGI. >>> > >>> > Most of us never need to think about C10m, or even C10k. If we do, that's a wonderfully fortunate problem to have. Just having that problem makes it much easier to get funding to solve it with specialists. Let the t-shirts sort it out while the suits focus on strategy. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Richard Gaskin >>> > Fourth World Systems >>> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> > ____________________________________________________________________ >>> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > use-livecode mailing list >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. >> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 11:13:28 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 16:13:28 +0000 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <87439C42-2BEF-4934-968A-2E26985334B8@major-k.de> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <87439C42-2BEF-4934-968A-2E26985334B8@major-k.de> Message-ID: Lol hahaha, sorry :) I meant "playrate", and indeed I wrote "playrate", but Safari auto-complete keeps changing it to "playmate" :) Best, Panos -- On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Panos, > > > Am 05.12.2017 um 14:17 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > ... > > You can do that by checking "the playmate of player 1". ... > > where "Player 1" = Hugh Heffner (RIP)? :-D > > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Tue Dec 5 12:24:23 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:24:23 +0100 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC =?UTF-8?Q?server=3F?= In-Reply-To: <37B8919A-E847-4C21-91D8-CE9E2E670199@gmail.com> References: <37B8919A-E847-4C21-91D8-CE9E2E670199@gmail.com> Message-ID: Apologies for the top post, but it seemed easier than responding to the rather long single-track thread this has generated. :) On 2017-12-04 12:32, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > In looking at node.js it seems that two things stand out - LC server > waits for the database to send a reply, rather than setting an event > listener, and perhaps node.js launches faster when a request comes in? Yes. > Is this accurate? Could LC server be modified to run as fast as node? > I would love to feel comfortable using LC server for millions of users > simultaneously - which I realize would take more than just speeding up > the server software. Yes it is accurate - in regards to 'millions of users' then that is more down to IT infrastructure than anything else. In terms of the other things raised in this thread - here is my take... Node.js consists of three things - libuv, Google's JavaScript V8 engine, a mature package management system and large set of prebuilt libraries. libuv (https://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/introduction.html) is a highly performant low-level library (written in C) for handling IO on Windows and UNIX systems. It wraps the best possible approaches available in those two worlds (kqueue/poll on UNIX, IOCP on Windows) in a non-blocking and event-driven API for all forms of IO - whether that be pipes, sockets, files or inter-process communication. It aims to virtually eliminate the overhead involved in handling data flowing in and out of the process using it. Node.js puts the V8 engine on top of libuv, and wraps its API at a reasonably high-level. The API allows JS to request IO operations, with which you provide a callback (whether wrapped in the syntactic sugar of futures/promises/continuations or not). The callbacks then call back into the V8 engine, again on the main (event-loop) thread. Indeed, there really isn't 'that much' difference between LiveCode and Node.JS from this point of view. Two main differences though: 1) Node.JS has a much more efficient underling IO handling system (libuv) in contrast to LiveCode's which has mainly evolved centered around UI event loops. 2) a completely non-blocking API for all kinds of IO in contrast to LiveCode which only really offers non-blocking IO directly for sockets, although processes can be done with a simple polling loop. In particular, Node.js doesn't natively use multiple threads (just like LiveCode) but there are packages which offer 'worker' style threading as you see in the browser though which basically allow you to eliminate (in a restricted way) the overhead of spinning up a separate process and using IPC to share state (the pros and cons of that will largely depend on the application though). Of course, some Node.js packages *will* spin up separate threads to perform very specific things - like using the libmysql client library which uses blocking sockets to communicate with the DB, or resolving DNS names which typically use a blocking call (although on UNIX glibc wraps this in an async version). There are actually a few things in LiveCode which do a similar thing - DNS resolution spawns a temporary thread to do that, tsNet runs a separate thread to handle libcurl's event loop and the revandroid external spins up a separate thread to communicate with adb as a separate process. In the future it would be nice to evolve the LiveCode engine to be Node.js-like - i.e. use libuv as the underlying IO library and ensure there is easy to use syntax for all IO operations you might want to perform. Indeed, it should really go further - in recent JS versions you can now write blocking-like code which runs as if it is non-blocking - essentially, JS has gained a form of 'wait' (something LiveCode has had for a long time). However, LiveCode's current implementation of wait is recursive and not round-robin - this is something which can (and will!) be changed when we solve the wait-problem for HTML5 (which I've finally managed to find a workable and incremental approach to solving). Of course that is the future - so what about right now? Well the first part is to allow certain operations to be non-blocking (i.e. callback driven) which currently are not - database access is one of these. There are two options here (1) do some low-level C fettling to run revdb calls on separate threads and use a callback, (2) write appropriate db protocol libraries in LiveCode Script using its non-blocking sockets. The latter might sound like 'why bother?' but, DB protocols change rarely, and there is a huge overhead in maintaining and shipping any large blob of compiled C++ when you target umpteen different OSes/architecture combinations. Of course, some db libraries are naturally non-blocking, in which case wrapping them in LCB would be a suitable option. Beyond that, I really do think it mostly comes down to infrastructure. You need a gateway process which sits and handles the front-end connections (e.g. like a webserver) really efficiently, and then passes those off to continually running processes which each run a single 'session' at a time (of course you can multiplex multiple user sessions into a single process once you have non-blocking versions of things like DB access - which saves the time of loading shared state again and again). Node.js is particularly good at doing both the front-end hand-off and session processes - which is why you can probably say that 'Node.js is faster than LiveCode Server'. Like most cases of optimization, you have to be careful to determine where the true bottlenecks are - in a system relying on a DB to provide the 'shared state' / datastore, the DB queries will almost always completely dominate *everything else* in that system, so the cost of overhead of the language being used to access them is pretty much immaterial. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 5 12:32:31 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 11:32:31 -0600 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: <16027bc7798.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Specialfolderpath("resources") is especially convenient in another way. In a standalone it points to the location of the files that were added to the Copy Files pane of the standalone settings. But in the IDE it points to the folder containing the current mainstack. If you organize your files on disk inside the folder containing the mainstack, you don't need to branch the code to provide a full path during development. SpecialFolderPath will work the same way in either environment. On December 5, 2017 7:19:14 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Include the .mp3 file (say "myFile.mp3") in the "Copy Files" section. This > will be accessible from the **standalone** using the > function. > > * - starting the player* > > on mouseUp > local tFilename > put specialfolderpath("resources") & slash & "myFile.mp3" into tFilename > // NOTE: In the IDE you'll need the full path to your "myFile.mp3" > set the filename of player 1 to tFilename > start player 1 > end mouseUp -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Dec 5 12:55:59 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:55:59 -0800 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4cf2e2b3-0639-7c7a-5273-3561decaf114@fourthworld.com> Andre Garzia wrote: > Some other languages support full threads and some even allow you to > fork(). Can you describe what you mean by fork() here? In a discussion a while back I made reference to an earlier post you'd made about fork(), but the response from the engine team left me with the impression that it's merely the way processes launch other processes. Of course we can launch processes right now in LC, so clearly there's something here I'm missing (forgive the naivete of the question; I'm only halfway into Robert Love's Linux System Programming). > ## THE ENGINE POOL ## > I believe it was Richard who did this, can't recall, it was definitely > not me. Keep a pool of engines running, lets say 20, use a node > balancer to round robin them. I'm sure there are others, but I can recall three people who've experimented with this sort of multiprocessing: Pierre Zahores, Mark Talluto, and myself. My own explorations were very superficial. I spent more time looking into how much could be gained by maxing async behavior with callbacks within a single LC process (because of course there's no point spawning multiple instances of an inefficient process ). I used the Raney mchttpd stack as a starting point, updated to send proper modern headers so it can be used with browsers made after 1999 , and revised to use callbacks for all reads/writes. The TL/DR (I was testing delivery of static files rather than DB access, so the comparison was with Apache2): The bad news is that even a slender HTTPd in LC was only slightly more than half as fast as Apache2. The good news was that a slender HTTPd thrown together in a couple hours in LC scripts was more than half as fast as the highly- optimized C written by a team of specialists in Apache2! :) My takeaway was that, as nice as it is to get pretty good results from a scripting language like LC, if I actually need scalable multiprocessing it's better handled by teams/apps specializing in that. You may find some of Pierre's posts in that thread interesting. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 13:07:45 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:07:45 -0500 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC server? In-Reply-To: <4cf2e2b3-0639-7c7a-5273-3561decaf114@fourthworld.com> References: <4cf2e2b3-0639-7c7a-5273-3561decaf114@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5026897A-2FB6-48AB-ABA9-0D79ABD7B903@gmail.com> As always, Mark - thank you for that excellent detailed response. It gave me much to consider. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Andre Garzia wrote: > > > Some other languages support full threads and some even allow you to > > fork(). > > Can you describe what you mean by fork() here? In a discussion a while back I made reference to an earlier post you'd made about fork(), but the response from the engine team left me with the impression that it's merely the way processes launch other processes. Of course we can launch processes right now in LC, so clearly there's something here I'm missing (forgive the naivete of the question; I'm only halfway into Robert Love's Linux System Programming). > > > > ## THE ENGINE POOL ## > > I believe it was Richard who did this, can't recall, it was definitely > > not me. Keep a pool of engines running, lets say 20, use a node > > balancer to round robin them. > > I'm sure there are others, but I can recall three people who've experimented with this sort of multiprocessing: Pierre Zahores, Mark Talluto, and myself. > > My own explorations were very superficial. I spent more time looking into how much could be gained by maxing async behavior with callbacks within a single LC process (because of course there's no point spawning multiple instances of an inefficient process ). I used the Raney mchttpd stack as a starting point, updated to send proper modern headers so it can be used with browsers made after 1999 , and revised to use callbacks for all reads/writes. > > The TL/DR (I was testing delivery of static files rather than DB access, so the comparison was with Apache2): > > The bad news is that even a slender HTTPd in LC was only slightly > more than half as fast as Apache2. > > The good news was that a slender HTTPd thrown together in a couple > hours in LC scripts was more than half as fast as the highly- > optimized C written by a team of specialists in Apache2! :) > > > > My takeaway was that, as nice as it is to get pretty good results from a scripting language like LC, if I actually need scalable multiprocessing it's better handled by teams/apps specializing in that. > > You may find some of Pierre's posts in that thread interesting. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Dec 5 13:18:07 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:18:07 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? Message-ID: I have some tools I developed for server apps, which allow me to develop and test both client and server within the same local LC IDE instance. As you can imagine, this has improved development efficiency by orders of magnitude. It's much a much more xTalk-like way of working, and once you use it having to be tied to a server for every little test feels like building a ship in a bottle with tweezers while wearing a blindfold. When I started making these tools I was using standalones exclusively for server work, partly because it reflects my habits gained from using LC as a CGI for many years before LC Server existed, and partly because I have no need to co-mingle code in HTML like PHP does, except a few cases where the merge function works quite nicely. Thinking about this more recently, it seems these tools need not be limited to server deployments using standalones, and may be modified to provide the same server emulation for deployments that will use LC Server. However, because the desktop version of LC has no means of executing LC Server scripts (due to the HTML wrapped around any code), the ability to enjoy such a fluid workflow is limited to those server apps where the .lc scripts contain only directives to load standard LC Script libraries. That limitation fits my own work, including current work for one client. But does it fit yours? How many of you using LC Server rely on its PHP-like model that encourages mixing HTML with LC code? Or maybe the better question might be: How many of you have server systems that already separate HTML from server code like most non-PHP solutions do, or could affordably transition to that model if it could simplify your development workflow significantly? Side question for the dev team if they see this: Would it be reasonable/affordable to add some means of enhancing desktop LC so that it can at least parse and attempt to execute LC scripts embedded in HTML? I can emulate environment variables and the like, but the incompatibility between LC and .lc has been a real development bottleneck. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From livfoss at mac.com Tue Dec 5 13:29:26 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 19:29:26 +0100 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks to Panos and to Jacque (and earlier to Richmond, even if his link had an alarming effect on my DropBox!). Am I right to think the LC documentation is deficient in this area, or did I just miss it? For example, although it?s in the LC dictionary, ?playstopped? can?t be found by searching the User Guide, which shows (IMHO) that users are not guided in any real sense about using players. Another point is that if one intends to use a player, there seems to be no point in including an audio file within a stack as a clip, even though an unplayable file such as ?mysound.mp3? is not rejected by the IDE when inserted in a stack (in fact it appears neatly in the ?Audioclips? section): since a player demands an **external** file, the audio clip in that format just uses up space needlessly. It all seems a bit of a mess to me. Having said that, I think I that as ever, thanks to the list, I can do what I want to do. Cheers Graham > On 5 Dec 2017, at 14:17, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Graham, > > In short: > > *- embedding an MP3, or alternatively providing a path to the default > folder for the MP3 file for standalone creation* > > Include the .mp3 file (say "myFile.mp3") in the "Copy Files" section. This > will be accessible from the **standalone** using the > function. > > * - starting the player* > > on mouseUp > local tFilename > put specialfolderpath("resources") & slash & "myFile.mp3" into tFilename > // NOTE: In the IDE you'll need the full path to your "myFile.mp3" > set the filename of player 1 to tFilename > start player 1 > end mouseUp > > * - monitoring the player to see if it?s still running* > > You can do that by checking "the playmate of player 1". If it is 0, then > the player does not play > > - doing other stuff while it?s running > > You can do other stuff without problems, as the player does not block them > > - being told when it?s stopped. > > Use the "playStopped" message > > Hope this helps, > Panos > -- > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Thanks Panos - I know that. I am however looking for comprehensive >> instructions as to how to use a player object via script, e.g >> >> - embedding an MP3, or alternatively providing a path to the default >> folder for the MP3 file for standalone creation >> - starting the player >> - monitoring the player to see if it?s still running >> - doing other stuff while it?s running >> - being told when it?s stopped. >> >> AFAIKS none of this is clear in the documentation. If true, this is a big >> omission! >> >> Cheers >> >> Graham >> PS - I imagine I?m not the only one to want to play MP3s because the are >> vastly smaller than the LC ?native? sound formats. I don?t like to make >> apps unnecessarily large, especially if they?re going to be delivered via >> the Internet. >> >>> On 5 Dec 2017, at 12:13, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> The command "play ' on desktop plays the file as an audioclip, >>> and audio clips can be in WAV, AIFF, or AU format. If you want to play an >>> mp3 file, you have to use a player object. >>> >>> Best, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Happy, Happy 5th of December: by sheer chance I stumbled on how to do >> this >>>> . . . >>>> >>>> In fact the whole thing is dead easy (not, admittedly clear from the >>>> Dictionary). >>>> >>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30258&p=161069#p161069 >>>> >>>> Best, Richmond. >>>> >>>> On 5/12/17 12:47 am, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi - perhaps due to not picking the right search terms in the >>>>> documentation, I am confused about playing audio files in LC 8. What I >> want >>>>> seems quite simple to me: I want the user to click a button which will >>>>> cause a single MP3 file to play. While it plays I may or may not want >> to >>>>> switch cards or use visual effects. When it stops, I want to take back >>>>> control and move the program onto something else. >>>>> >>>>> It appears that I have to use a player object to play MP3s, since the >>>>> ?play? comment will only play aiffs. OK, so I can create a player >> object, >>>>> but I want to embed my MP3 file into it (since I have no need to play >> more >>>>> than one file), I want to start it, and I want the option to do stuff >> while >>>>> it?s playing, and I certainly want to do stuff when it stops. >>>>> >>>>> The documentation is not good on this - there is no indication as to >>>>> whether you can embed files (if you can?t, what would the path to a >> file >>>>> included in the program look like - I can only see paths referring to >> files >>>>> in my development environment)? There is one reference in Beginner?s >> Guide >>>>> to a ?play stopped? message, but there isn?t one in the User Guide. My >> old >>>>> friend ?wait until the sound is done? seems to have died of old age. >> How do >>>>> I know when the sound is finished, or alternatively how can I know if >> it?s >>>>> still playing? >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone explain what I?m supposed to do, or (just as good) point me >> to >>>>> the right bit of LC documentation? >>>>> >>>>> TIA >>>>> >>>>> Graham >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 13:38:47 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 20:38:47 +0200 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> Message-ID: <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> NO: a player does not "demand" an external file as my example stack demonstrates: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v2juqqu7ojb83v/Carrot%20Player.livecode.zip?dl=0 [ and I would be VERY interested to know, Graham, what that did to your DropBox ] The player in that stack plays an embedded mp3 file. Richmond. On 5/12/17 8:29 pm, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks to Panos and to Jacque (and earlier to Richmond, even if his link had an alarming effect on my DropBox!). Am I right to think the LC documentation is deficient in this area, or did I just miss it? For example, although it?s in the LC dictionary, ?playstopped? can?t be found by searching the User Guide, which shows (IMHO) that users are not guided in any real sense about using players. > > Another point is that if one intends to use a player, there seems to be no point in including an audio file within a stack as a clip, even though an unplayable file such as ?mysound.mp3? is not rejected by the IDE when inserted in a stack (in fact it appears neatly in the ?Audioclips? section): since a player demands an **external** file, the audio clip in that format just uses up space needlessly. It all seems a bit of a mess to me. > > Having said that, I think I that as ever, thanks to the list, I can do what I want to do. > > Cheers > > Graham > >> On 5 Dec 2017, at 14:17, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Graham, >> >> In short: >> >> *- embedding an MP3, or alternatively providing a path to the default >> folder for the MP3 file for standalone creation* >> >> Include the .mp3 file (say "myFile.mp3") in the "Copy Files" section. This >> will be accessible from the **standalone** using the >> function. >> >> * - starting the player* >> >> on mouseUp >> local tFilename >> put specialfolderpath("resources") & slash & "myFile.mp3" into tFilename >> // NOTE: In the IDE you'll need the full path to your "myFile.mp3" >> set the filename of player 1 to tFilename >> start player 1 >> end mouseUp >> >> * - monitoring the player to see if it?s still running* >> >> You can do that by checking "the playmate of player 1". If it is 0, then >> the player does not play >> >> - doing other stuff while it?s running >> >> You can do other stuff without problems, as the player does not block them >> >> - being told when it?s stopped. >> >> Use the "playStopped" message >> >> Hope this helps, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Panos - I know that. I am however looking for comprehensive >>> instructions as to how to use a player object via script, e.g >>> >>> - embedding an MP3, or alternatively providing a path to the default >>> folder for the MP3 file for standalone creation >>> - starting the player >>> - monitoring the player to see if it?s still running >>> - doing other stuff while it?s running >>> - being told when it?s stopped. >>> >>> AFAIKS none of this is clear in the documentation. If true, this is a big >>> omission! >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Graham >>> PS - I imagine I?m not the only one to want to play MP3s because the are >>> vastly smaller than the LC ?native? sound formats. I don?t like to make >>> apps unnecessarily large, especially if they?re going to be delivered via >>> the Internet. >>> >>>> On 5 Dec 2017, at 12:13, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> The command "play ' on desktop plays the file as an audioclip, >>>> and audio clips can be in WAV, AIFF, or AU format. If you want to play an >>>> mp3 file, you have to use a player object. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Panos >>>> -- >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Happy, Happy 5th of December: by sheer chance I stumbled on how to do >>> this >>>>> . . . >>>>> >>>>> In fact the whole thing is dead easy (not, admittedly clear from the >>>>> Dictionary). >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30258&p=161069#p161069 >>>>> >>>>> Best, Richmond. >>>>> >>>>> On 5/12/17 12:47 am, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi - perhaps due to not picking the right search terms in the >>>>>> documentation, I am confused about playing audio files in LC 8. What I >>> want >>>>>> seems quite simple to me: I want the user to click a button which will >>>>>> cause a single MP3 file to play. While it plays I may or may not want >>> to >>>>>> switch cards or use visual effects. When it stops, I want to take back >>>>>> control and move the program onto something else. >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears that I have to use a player object to play MP3s, since the >>>>>> ?play? comment will only play aiffs. OK, so I can create a player >>> object, >>>>>> but I want to embed my MP3 file into it (since I have no need to play >>> more >>>>>> than one file), I want to start it, and I want the option to do stuff >>> while >>>>>> it?s playing, and I certainly want to do stuff when it stops. >>>>>> >>>>>> The documentation is not good on this - there is no indication as to >>>>>> whether you can embed files (if you can?t, what would the path to a >>> file >>>>>> included in the program look like - I can only see paths referring to >>> files >>>>>> in my development environment)? There is one reference in Beginner?s >>> Guide >>>>>> to a ?play stopped? message, but there isn?t one in the User Guide. My >>> old >>>>>> friend ?wait until the sound is done? seems to have died of old age. >>> How do >>>>>> I know when the sound is finished, or alternatively how can I know if >>> it?s >>>>>> still playing? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone explain what I?m supposed to do, or (just as good) point me >>> to >>>>>> the right bit of LC documentation? >>>>>> >>>>>> TIA >>>>>> >>>>>> Graham >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Dec 5 13:45:27 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 19:45:27 +0100 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Richmond, > Am 05.12.2017 um 19:38 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode : > > NO: a player does not "demand" an external file as my example stack demonstrates: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v2juqqu7ojb83v/Carrot%20Player.livecode.zip?dl=0 > [ and I would be VERY interested to know, Graham, what that did to your DropBox ] > The player in that stack plays an embedded mp3 file. It does NOT on a Mac, nor will it on Windows or wherever! I suspect you have the MP3 in the same folder as the stack, so it might work for you on your machine but not as you think. :-) > Richmond. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Dec 5 13:50:52 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:50:52 -0500 Subject: Datagrid 2 Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm bidding on a project and would like to get a sense as to the eta of datagrid 2 especially on mobile. I would love to buy a LC Indy License and do the job. During Campaign the eta was oct/november, but i get they are just estimates. Is there a more up to date eta? Thanks, Tom From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 14:17:42 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 21:17:42 +0200 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> Message-ID: <797987d4-63ee-a842-aca6-e83db577b027@gmail.com> I stand corrected! You are indeed right: I moved my "carrot.mp3" file out of the same folder as the stack and, no, no sound despite their being an embedded "carrot.mp3" file in the stack. What a bu**er. Richmond. On 5/12/17 8:45 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 05.12.2017 um 19:38 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode : >> >> NO: a player does not "demand" an external file as my example stack demonstrates: >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v2juqqu7ojb83v/Carrot%20Player.livecode.zip?dl=0 >> [ and I would be VERY interested to know, Graham, what that did to your DropBox ] >> The player in that stack plays an embedded mp3 file. > It does NOT on a Mac, nor will it on Windows or wherever! > > I suspect you have the MP3 in the same folder as the stack, so it might work for you > on your machine but not as you think. :-) > >> Richmond. > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 5 14:19:12 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 19:19:12 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> @ Charles (and anyone else) using tsNetSetTimeouts 30, 0, 300000, 60000, 30, 1000 I need to implement this in our app? "minimum amount of data?" is obviously different from "no connection whatsoever" Your example assumes that for this use case, 30 seconds is acceptable. That may well be for a DropBox app where "downloading stuff" is a known "may take a long time" context. But clearly that's way too long for many contexts. Mobile users have high expectations on responsiveness. Can anyone give us some standard numbers for a Bytes/Seconds setting(s) for a reasonable time out period for e.g. streaming audio OR an HTML page? I realize this question is highly context dependent. If one is calling a plain text static html page with one small image, the total data is very little. even on a slow connection, it might still load in a "some" (reasonable wait) seconds" ? but then if one is about to stream an audio file (mp3) from the server which could be e.g. 30 minutes long in duration, the player will wait and wait and wait perhaps get started, then stall ?.since we set up Cloud Flare I'm seeing some big improvements on this front. no more outgoing traffic/CPU overload notifications from our Linode server?since CloudFlare is now serving all cached files from their CDN? Bu we still need to deal with local latencies as the user moves from her Home to his car to Starbucks + WiFi and then a walk down the street into the office (back up on hi-strength wifi Spotify is quite "brutal" in it's approach? with 2 bars on a 3G connection? I can still go to Safari in my iPhone and fetch a small html page, but Spotify throws up it's ugly disconnected icon with no information on a black screen. Flipboard (delivers articles from publications? less bandwidth needed that Spotify for audio) used to just not open at all? now it will give some message about "connect to the internet" -- confusing to the user when he can still connect in Safari So if that's the way the Big Boys with the Million Dollar Apps do it. I wonder if I am just dreaming that us "little LC devs" can do a better job. With TSNet (thanks for making this fully available now in Indy!) we could fine tune this along the way. Theoretically one could dymanically reset the time out ahead of different classes of content 1) skinny text only pages 2) image heavy pages 3) streaming audio/video. So I guess this boils down to one question: If you are streaming audio or video.. .what would be the reasonable bytes per second you would want to "see" as current bandwidth before telling the users that their connection is too slow. All thoughts on this welcome, as I go off to the net to find bandwidth standards? But maybe someone here already knows the answers/has experience? And of course, I can just build it and test (which we will do anyway) Brahmanathaswami On 11/22/17, 6:16 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick via use-livecode" wrote: Have a look at the following bug report which is about a similar issue: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20627 Effectively the last two parameters to that command allow you to set a minimum amount of data that must be transferred across a connection within a specified period of time to consider a connection still active. Having said that, when tsNet is disabled, libUrl should continue to pay attention to the socketTimeoutInterval property. I have just done quick test on LC8.2.0dp2 and if I set the socketTimeoutInterval before making a ?put URL xxx? call to a script that deliberately doesn?t respond in time, the request times out after the time specified by the socketTimeoutInterval call and returns a result of ?socket timeout?. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 5 14:52:15 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 14:52:15 -0500 Subject: Datagrid 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tom, The other option is to use mobTableField (I think Bernd is the author) if you don't need all the bells and whistles of the DG. I'm using both in different mobile apps. The original DG works fine even for large DG's with horizontal and vertical scrolling, but MTF is even more responsive. ETA - they were talking about "soon" at the last LCG conference, which I would assume means 1Q 18, even though they were talking end of 17. On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi folks, I'm bidding on a project and would like to get a sense as to the > eta of datagrid 2 especially on mobile. I would love to buy a LC Indy > License and do the job. > > During Campaign the eta was oct/november, but i get they are just > estimates. Is there a more up to date eta? > > Thanks, > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 5 15:41:30 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 20:41:30 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> Message-ID: Finding answers faster than expected. Spotify seems to want minimum 96kbps. If we use this for our own app/mp3's delivered by CloudFlare -- God only knows it that makes any sense at all? but we have to start somewhere? Now, I'm not super savvy on these units but I think this means 96 X 125 (bytes) = 12000 bytes OK, now going over to the forum on this dropbox thread I see Jacque's and Charle's comments. 5 secs seems a little long.. so if we use the algorithm "We want to tell users what is up or dim content options from remote servers in 3 seconds" (and FTP is not in the cards) we get: tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 3000, 3000 , , 3, 12000 This translates "you must have a 96kbps connection or else?" right? FYI the dictionary does not declare units for the pLowSpeedTime, it should? I've assumed integers = seconds and not milliseconds for param 5. Second (dumb) question: how do we trap for the timeout? we keep checking the tsNetStatusCallback on a loop? and if and when we see timeout we inform the user? But we need a connectionID, so how do we extract a connectionID from put/get/set/ http urls? where we are targeting browser widget on a card. Or a mobilePlayer? set the url of browser "webViews" to https://MyDomain.com" or a connection ID for this: mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "filename", pURL ?? FWIW some useful links https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/how-much-speed-do-i-need-for-pandora-and-spotify/ http://www.bandwidthplace.com/what-are-the-bandwidth-specifications-for-pandora-spotify-itunes-radio-and-beats-music-article/ https://thomas.vanhoutte.be/miniblog/spotify-data-consumption/T https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/how-much-speed-do-i-need-for-pandora-and-spotify/ and interesting tool: push this URL to a browser widget in your mobile app. http://www.bandwidthplace.com and walk around different locations and check your bandwidth? someone might cook up a native LC widget for this purpose. BR On 12/5/17, 9:19 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode" wrote: So I guess this boils down to one question: If you are streaming audio or video.. .what would be the reasonable bytes per second you would want to "see" as current bandwidth before telling the users that their connection is too slow. All thoughts on this welcome, as I go off to the net to find bandwidth standards? But maybe someone here already knows the answers/has experience? And of course, I can just build it and test (which we will do anyway) From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Dec 5 15:44:09 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 21:44:09 +0100 Subject: Datagrid 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91FAFBB6-16A3-4040-93EC-DA35924537D9@m-r-d.de> Mike, do you have an url where i can find mobTableField or more information about it? Regards, Matthias > Am 05.12.2017 um 20:52 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode >: > > Tom, > The other option is to use mobTableField (I think Bernd is the author) if > you don't need all the bells and whistles of the DG. > I'm using both in different mobile apps. The original DG works fine even > for large DG's with horizontal and vertical scrolling, but MTF is even more > responsive. > ETA - they were talking about "soon" at the last LCG conference, which I > would assume means 1Q 18, even though they were talking end of 17. > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > wrote: > >> Hi folks, I'm bidding on a project and would like to get a sense as to the >> eta of datagrid 2 especially on mobile. I would love to buy a LC Indy >> License and do the job. >> >> During Campaign the eta was oct/november, but i get they are just >> estimates. Is there a more up to date eta? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tom >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Tue Dec 5 16:06:26 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 22:06:26 +0100 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> Message-ID: <473E577F-E7AD-4B45-B891-821CAB60BB1A@mac.com> I don?t really know if it was DropBox exactly, but I got a temporary glitch that made my Mac freeze the first time I tried to download your zip file via the linkg. I tried it again just now and it worked. If I find out any more about what I did, I?ll let you know! Graham > On 5 Dec 2017, at 19:38, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: [snip] > [ and I would be VERY interested to know, Graham, what that did to your DropBox ] > > The player in that stack plays an embedded mp3 file. > > Richmond. From kevin at livecode.com Tue Dec 5 16:24:17 2017 From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 21:24:17 +0000 Subject: Datagrid 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I gave a demo of the progress on it in the last LCG. Its still on track for completion in the last DP before Christmas. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps On 05/12/2017, 18:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode" wrote: >Hi folks, I'm bidding on a project and would like to get a sense as to the >eta of datagrid 2 especially on mobile. I would love to buy a LC Indy >License and do the job. > >During Campaign the eta was oct/november, but i get they are just >estimates. Is there a more up to date eta? > >Thanks, > >Tom >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 5 16:25:21 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 16:25:21 -0500 Subject: Datagrid 2 In-Reply-To: <91FAFBB6-16A3-4040-93EC-DA35924537D9@m-r-d.de> References: <91FAFBB6-16A3-4040-93EC-DA35924537D9@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Oh I'm an idiot. It's not mobtablefield, it's modtablefield Email: bernd at bernd.niggemann@uni-wh.de to make sure you have the latest version. On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike, > > do you have an url where i can find mobTableField or more information > about it? > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > Am 05.12.2017 um 20:52 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > Tom, > > The other option is to use mobTableField (I think Bernd is the author) if > > you don't need all the bells and whistles of the DG. > > I'm using both in different mobile apps. The original DG works fine even > > for large DG's with horizontal and vertical scrolling, but MTF is even > more > > responsive. > > ETA - they were talking about "soon" at the last LCG conference, which I > > would assume means 1Q 18, even though they were talking end of 17. > > > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > wrote: > > > >> Hi folks, I'm bidding on a project and would like to get a sense as to > the > >> eta of datagrid 2 especially on mobile. I would love to buy a LC Indy > >> License and do the job. > >> > >> During Campaign the eta was oct/november, but i get they are just > >> estimates. Is there a more up to date eta? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Tom > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From klaus at major-k.de Tue Dec 5 16:55:56 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 22:55:56 +0100 Subject: Mac color chooser swatches do not work? Message-ID: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> Hi friends, before I create a report, can someone please confirm that we cannot use the "swatches" at the bottom of the Mac color chooser? Clicking them does nothing, we have to"re-create" the color with the sliders (or Crayons or whatever we choose for selecting a color). Works of course in e.g. "TextEdit" etc. Thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From tore.nilsen at me.com Tue Dec 5 17:03:45 2017 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 23:03:45 +0100 Subject: Mac color chooser swatches do not work? In-Reply-To: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> References: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> Message-ID: Seems as if you are right, I cannot use the swatches either in LC 8.2 (dp2) with MacOS 10.13 beta (17A360a). Using the eyedropper tool to pick the colour from the swatches works here. Tore > 5. des. 2017 kl. 22:55 skrev Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi friends, > > before I create a report, can someone please confirm that we > cannot use the "swatches" at the bottom of the Mac color chooser? > > Clicking them does nothing, we have to"re-create" the color with > the sliders (or Crayons or whatever we choose for selecting a color). > > Works of course in e.g. "TextEdit" etc. > > Thank you! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Dec 5 17:18:02 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 23:18:02 +0100 Subject: Mac color chooser swatches do not work? In-Reply-To: References: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> Message-ID: <9E5893B5-E9F3-4A6A-BA0A-DC1292258059@major-k.de> Hi Tore, > Am 05.12.2017 um 23:03 schrieb Tore Nilsen via use-livecode : > > Seems as if you are right, I cannot use the swatches either in LC 8.2 (dp2) with MacOS 10.13 beta (17A360a). Using the eyedropper tool to pick the colour from the swatches works here. thank you for testing, it does not even work with LC 5.02, so it looks this is a very old bug which has not been discovered until today. :-) Will create a bug report. > Tore > >> 5. des. 2017 kl. 22:55 skrev Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >> >> Hi friends, >> >> before I create a report, can someone please confirm that we >> cannot use the "swatches" at the bottom of the Mac color chooser? >> >> Clicking them does nothing, we have to"re-create" the color with >> the sliders (or Crayons or whatever we choose for selecting a color). >> >> Works of course in e.g. "TextEdit" etc. >> >> Thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Tue Dec 5 17:26:02 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 23:26:02 +0100 Subject: Mac color chooser swatches do not work? In-Reply-To: <9E5893B5-E9F3-4A6A-BA0A-DC1292258059@major-k.de> References: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> <9E5893B5-E9F3-4A6A-BA0A-DC1292258059@major-k.de> Message-ID: <20188873-493C-4D58-8D86-4529C2E29CCB@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 05.12.2017 um 23:18 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi Tore, > >> Am 05.12.2017 um 23:03 schrieb Tore Nilsen via use-livecode : >> Seems as if you are right, I cannot use the swatches either in LC 8.2 (dp2) with MacOS 10.13 beta (17A360a). Using the eyedropper tool to pick the colour from the swatches works here. > thank you for testing, it does not even work with LC 5.02, so it looks this is a very old bug > which has not been discovered until today. Will create a bug report. done: Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Dec 5 17:34:39 2017 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 22:34:39 +0000 Subject: Mac color chooser swatches do not work? In-Reply-To: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> References: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> Message-ID: <8A93504C-7D26-4BAF-B86A-5475741AD724@unimelb.edu.au> Hi Klaus - the swatches work fine for me (and from memory always have). I'm still on Yosemite (10.10.5) though, so perhaps it's a High Sierra thing? Terry... ?On 6/12/2017 8:56 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus major-k via use-livecode" wrote: Hi friends, before I create a report, can someone please confirm that we cannot use the "swatches" at the bottom of the Mac color chooser? Clicking them does nothing, we have to"re-create" the color with the sliders (or Crayons or whatever we choose for selecting a color). Works of course in e.g. "TextEdit" etc. Thank you! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 17:35:15 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 22:35:15 +0000 Subject: Mac color chooser swatches do not work? In-Reply-To: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> References: <907CADC3-4F14-453B-A63C-E9AA57E9EA45@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi Klaus, Are you on MacOS 10.13? If yes, what you see is this bug: quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20727 Best, Panos -- On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:55 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi friends, > > before I create a report, can someone please confirm that we > cannot use the "swatches" at the bottom of the Mac color chooser? > > Clicking them does nothing, we have to"re-create" the color with > the sliders (or Crayons or whatever we choose for selecting a color). > > Works of course in e.g. "TextEdit" etc. > > Thank you! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hello at simonsmith.co Tue Dec 5 19:22:01 2017 From: hello at simonsmith.co (Simon Smith) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:22:01 +0200 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Personally I do prefer to mix HTML / code together. I don't think it right to say it is a PHP way to do things though :) - PHP does not encourage one to go this route for what I think is usually called spaghetti code. While some platforms, like WordPress have done quiet a bit to encourage this style of coding with it's plugins and theme development - there are many PHP developers who are very public in their dislike for such "barbaric" coding practices and also numerous frameworks that don't support/encourage mixing html/php either. Personally I think it is one of the reasons that lead to the popularity of WordPress as it makes certain tasks very easy to, even if you don't have much coding experience. Yes it does depend on what I am doing, but for the most part, I don't have any issues mixing code and HTML together. Carpe diem *Simon Smith* m. +27 83 306 7862 On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I have some tools I developed for server apps, which allow me to develop > and test both client and server within the same local LC IDE instance. As > you can imagine, this has improved development efficiency by orders of > magnitude. > > It's much a much more xTalk-like way of working, and once you use it > having to be tied to a server for every little test feels like building a > ship in a bottle with tweezers while wearing a blindfold. > > When I started making these tools I was using standalones exclusively for > server work, partly because it reflects my habits gained from using LC as a > CGI for many years before LC Server existed, and partly because I have no > need to co-mingle code in HTML like PHP does, except a few cases where the > merge function works quite nicely. > > Thinking about this more recently, it seems these tools need not be > limited to server deployments using standalones, and may be modified to > provide the same server emulation for deployments that will use LC Server. > > However, because the desktop version of LC has no means of executing LC > Server scripts (due to the HTML wrapped around any code), the ability to > enjoy such a fluid workflow is limited to those server apps where the .lc > scripts contain only directives to load standard LC Script libraries. > > That limitation fits my own work, including current work for one client. > But does it fit yours? > > How many of you using LC Server rely on its PHP-like model that encourages > mixing HTML with LC code? > > Or maybe the better question might be: > > How many of you have server systems that already separate HTML from server > code like most non-PHP solutions do, or could affordably transition to that > model if it could simplify your development workflow significantly? > > Side question for the dev team if they see this: > > Would it be reasonable/affordable to add some means of enhancing desktop > LC so that it can at least parse and attempt to execute LC scripts embedded > in HTML? I can emulate environment variables and the like, but the > incompatibility between LC and .lc has been a real development bottleneck. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Dec 5 20:23:20 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 17:23:20 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <73ee6611-84e4-7f9a-47fe-f21119e9736e@fourthworld.com> Simon Smith wrote: > Personally I do prefer to mix HTML / code together. If you mix them together with the implied extended merge of LC Server rather than an explicit merge with LC Script, I'm afraid nothing in my toolkit can help. > I don't think it right to say it is a PHP way to do things though :) What other languages work that way? In LC Script the primary execution object is a script, which can optionally pass data to be merged with an explicit call to the merge function. This pattern seems more common, e.g. Ruby, Lua, Python, and of course SuperCard's Flamethrower project which introduced the merge function to the xTalk world. With PHP (and LC Server), the primary execution object is assumed to be a web page, with code optionally embedded in it and the merging happens as an implicit part of the processing. I can't think of any other languages that work that way. Am I missing some? I don't have a judgment about it either way. A lot of people like PHP, and given the range of things people make with it (nearly every major CMS and a lot of other server frameworks where the browser is the primary target) it seems to do well. The only reason I'm distinguishing the style in this thread is that LC Server's page-centric code is incompatible with LC Script on the desktop, and my tools run on the desktop. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Dec 6 01:14:07 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 01:14:07 -0500 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D1B82DA-F52D-497B-BE43-EA2B4FF59238@all-auctions.com> Hi Richard, I regularly mix both .lc scripts and HTML. I liked the original LC Web-Plugin with the exception of the very scary download message that was forced upon us all without any option to tone it down a bit. Once the mothership decided to abandon it, it was doomed. It was still great for in-house work though even in that state for a time. Then I was disappointed when the LC server came out that I couldn?t use Desktop LC code in the server the same way that I used to be able to do with the LC Web-Plugin. I find now that I can mix both .lc scripts and HTML in the same web format file. It can be a pain sometimes changing from double quotes to single quotes. Sometimes I have to build up my database calls with more statements, and concatenations than I?d like to, but at least it all works now. CMS are interesting, but I usually find that whatever it is that I want to do, the proper add-on I?m looking for just doesn?t exist as I tend to want to do things that aren?t normal everyday kinds of applications that everyone else wants to do. Every job I do tends to ends up being a custom one. I thought all the hype about Wordpress and LC working together sounded interesting. Then On-Rev wrote us that note saying that we were the ones that would be held responsible for ensuring that Wordpress was always up to date on our accounts or we could lose our accounts. (I thought maintaining up to date versions was supposed to be the job of On-Rev as good care takers.) Oh well, I was glad I had decided not to go that route so it wasn?t a problem for me at all. I just love the way new things are announced as the latest and greatest, and then a few months or a couple years later abandoned. The change over time of everything in the computer world is way too fast, and as a result unstable. That is why we don?t have true artificial intelligence yet. Every time when it looks like some breakthrough might occur, someone decides it?s time that everyone go through a forced update that screws up all one's carefully crafted code. They break it! Have you noticed now many companies are saying they have developed an AI that does task XYZ. What they have really done is write a program that is better than the previous version of what they made. That is not AI. I suppose perhaps they are calling it that to either get more funding, marketing attention, or both. If artificial intelligence ever did evolve it would have the same problem. Update??Update.. Update..Update.Upda.Up.U.ding.ding..g.. Godlike thinking power achieved..ding update.. No time to spend doing anything except..update ding! Oh sorry, I guess you didn?t ask for a rant. Update ding! ;-) Cheers, Rick > On Dec 5, 2017, at 1:18 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > I have some tools I developed for server apps, which allow me to develop and test both client and server within the same local LC IDE instance. As you can imagine, this has improved development efficiency by orders of magnitude. > > It's much a much more xTalk-like way of working, and once you use it having to be tied to a server for every little test feels like building a ship in a bottle with tweezers while wearing a blindfold. > > When I started making these tools I was using standalones exclusively for server work, partly because it reflects my habits gained from using LC as a CGI for many years before LC Server existed, and partly because I have no need to co-mingle code in HTML like PHP does, except a few cases where the merge function works quite nicely. > > Thinking about this more recently, it seems these tools need not be limited to server deployments using standalones, and may be modified to provide the same server emulation for deployments that will use LC Server. > > However, because the desktop version of LC has no means of executing LC Server scripts (due to the HTML wrapped around any code), the ability to enjoy such a fluid workflow is limited to those server apps where the .lc scripts contain only directives to load standard LC Script libraries. > > That limitation fits my own work, including current work for one client. But does it fit yours? > > How many of you using LC Server rely on its PHP-like model that encourages mixing HTML with LC code? > > Or maybe the better question might be: > > How many of you have server systems that already separate HTML from server code like most non-PHP solutions do, or could affordably transition to that model if it could simplify your development workflow significantly? > > Side question for the dev team if they see this: > > Would it be reasonable/affordable to add some means of enhancing desktop LC so that it can at least parse and attempt to execute LC scripts embedded in HTML? I can emulate environment variables and the like, but the incompatibility between LC and .lc has been a real development bottleneck. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed Dec 6 02:26:42 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 08:26:42 +0100 Subject: Why is node.js faster than LC =?UTF-8?Q?server=3F?= In-Reply-To: <4cf2e2b3-0639-7c7a-5273-3561decaf114@fourthworld.com> References: <4cf2e2b3-0639-7c7a-5273-3561decaf114@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <03870119c26514252e6df7bd1118229f@livecode.com> On 2017-12-05 18:55, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Can you describe what you mean by fork() here? In a discussion a > while back I made reference to an earlier post you'd made about > fork(), but the response from the engine team left me with the > impression that it's merely the way processes launch other processes. > Of course we can launch processes right now in LC, so clearly there's > something here I'm missing (forgive the naivete of the question; I'm > only halfway into Robert Love's Linux System Programming). 'fork' is a UNIX system call which creates a new process by copying everything about the current process. In particular: 1) The entire virtual memory space is copied using copy-on-write (so there is no copy until a page is modified) 2) All file descriptors (fds) (which inside the kernel are ref-counted) are copied into the new process by increasing the ref-count (this is not copy-on-write). However, only the thread which calls 'fork()' is cloned in this manner - the new process has only one thread. So fork basically creates a clone of the current process sharing *all* file descriptor based resources (which is pretty much how all kernel resources are represented beyond memory, threads and processes) with just a single thread. In 99.9999% of cases where you find a fork(), you will find an exec* syscall almost immediately afterwards in the new process (fork returns 0 in the new process, and the new process's pid in the original process) - the exec* family of calls completely replace a process with a new one running a new executable. The only bit of code you tend to find between fork() and exec on the new process side is code which shuffles fds around to ensure the new process shares only the fds you want. You can call fork() from any language which either provides FFI or external like plugins - not that it does you any good in almost all cases in any language unless you call exec* very soon after. The sharing of state means that the new process is not going to play well with the original, and the copying only goes so far as address space, fds and the single thread - not anything it might be connected to (such as a window server). The only code which is fork() safe to do anything more than that is code which has been written *from the ground up* to work with it, and then it would be for very specialized purposes. Basically, 'fork' is a red-herring here - it is not useful generally, and certainly not in a high-level language environment such as LiveCode (or pretty much any other environment where you don't control everything down to the last bit in your process). [ Note: You would be fine using fork() and fd-shuffling calls followed by exec() from LCB, just not a great deal more ]. In terms of the context we are talking about, then the main thing which fork() provides which is useful is the ability to execute a new process and pass it a file descriptor of a socket from the original process to the new one - i.e. 'handing off' of a connection from one process to another. However, that can be done without using fork - you can pass file descriptors to other processes on UNIX by using UNIX domain sockets and sendmsg (you can do a similar thing on Windows, the abstractions are different, but the underlying effects are the same). Another thing which fork() does allow is the idea of a 'zygote' virtual machine process. All virtual machines have setup time which does exactly the same thing for all uses of it. A zygote is a pre-inited virtual machine process which has done everything but loaded any user code. Android Dalvik works like this - there is a single zygote Dalvik process which has all the setup of the VM done, and is just sitting waiting to load user code to execute. When a new Java-based Android process is required, the zygote is forked and user code loaded. Note that this requires a great deal of care to get right due to what fork() actually does, as outlined above. For something like Android where you have restricted resources and want to spin-up new processes as quickly as possible, this makes sense. However, in the case we are talking about (server-based process clusters, essentially) then it is easier just to fire up many replica processes which just sit idle until used - with new connections being handed off to them as needed. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed Dec 6 02:32:54 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 08:32:54 +0100 Subject: Sending a message to users that floats above everything In-Reply-To: References: <950CE409-2C3E-46EB-A124-995658A30CEA@gmail.com> <15e05745a68.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <1c378f09289c8962f0faf192b448bf55@livecode.com> <0d2f0594-b810-7ac3-1424-12ee2d3b4515@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <31dead6488b39da0785fafde5433a692@livecode.com> On 2017-12-04 00:22, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > There are actually 2 PRs for toast... one LCB and another in the engine > itself. 5860 & 5018 Indeed - the LCB one started off as a transliteration of the engine implementation provided by @HedgeHao... It has the advantage of being a single source file, rather than requiring new source files and changes in several places in the engine, and provides the same functionality... I shall endeavour to give it docs and test it in the next sprint (so it should appear in DP11) :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hello at simonsmith.co Wed Dec 6 02:44:58 2017 From: hello at simonsmith.co (Simon Smith) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 09:44:58 +0200 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: <73ee6611-84e4-7f9a-47fe-f21119e9736e@fourthworld.com> References: <73ee6611-84e4-7f9a-47fe-f21119e9736e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: PHP is definitely the most popular language for letting you code this way, but then it is pretty much only for the web unlike most other languages. Other languages can work this way too - e.g. Python has PSP, Java has JSP as does Ruby, Lua etc. but not as popular as PHP. Carpe diem *Simon Smith* m. +27 83 306 7862 On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:23 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Simon Smith wrote: > > > Personally I do prefer to mix HTML / code together. > > If you mix them together with the implied extended merge of LC Server > rather than an explicit merge with LC Script, I'm afraid nothing in my > toolkit can help. > > > > I don't think it right to say it is a PHP way to do things though :) > > What other languages work that way? > > In LC Script the primary execution object is a script, which can > optionally pass data to be merged with an explicit call to the merge > function. This pattern seems more common, e.g. Ruby, Lua, Python, and of > course SuperCard's Flamethrower project which introduced the merge function > to the xTalk world. > > With PHP (and LC Server), the primary execution object is assumed to be a > web page, with code optionally embedded in it and the merging happens as an > implicit part of the processing. I can't think of any other languages that > work that way. Am I missing some? > > I don't have a judgment about it either way. A lot of people like PHP, > and given the range of things people make with it (nearly every major CMS > and a lot of other server frameworks where the browser is the primary > target) it seems to do well. > > The only reason I'm distinguishing the style in this thread is that LC > Server's page-centric code is incompatible with LC Script on the desktop, > and my tools run on the desktop. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 04:26:32 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 11:26:32 +0200 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <797987d4-63ee-a842-aca6-e83db577b027@gmail.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> <797987d4-63ee-a842-aca6-e83db577b027@gmail.com> Message-ID: <66b118e6-416d-4cbc-a8df-3bbc8b7a0327@gmail.com> However, the fact that "import audio file" allows one to import an mp3 file is a bit misleading. Richmond. On 5/12/17 9:17 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > I stand corrected! > > You are indeed right: I moved my "carrot.mp3" file out of the same > folder as the stack > and, no, no sound despite their being an embedded "carrot.mp3" file in > the stack. > > What a bu**er. > > Richmond. > > On 5/12/17 8:45 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Richmond, >> >>> Am 05.12.2017 um 19:38 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode: >>> >>> NO: a player does not "demand" an external file as my example stack demonstrates: >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v2juqqu7ojb83v/Carrot%20Player.livecode.zip?dl=0 >>> [ and I would be VERY interested to know, Graham, what that did to your DropBox ] >>> The player in that stack plays an embedded mp3 file. >> It does NOT on a Mac, nor will it on Windows or wherever! >> >> I suspect you have the MP3 in the same folder as the stack, so it might work for you >> on your machine but not as you think. :-) >> >>> Richmond. >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> http://www.major-k.de >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Dec 6 06:33:12 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 12:33:12 +0100 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: <0D1B82DA-F52D-497B-BE43-EA2B4FF59238@all-auctions.com> References: <0D1B82DA-F52D-497B-BE43-EA2B4FF59238@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: > Am 06.12.2017 um 07:14 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode >: > Then On-Rev wrote us that note saying that we were > the ones that would be held responsible for > ensuring that Wordpress was always up to > date on our accounts or we could lose our > accounts. (I thought maintaining up to date > versions was supposed to be the job of > On-Rev as good care takers.) If you install Wordpress manually from a Zip file then you are responsible for keeping that version up to date. Either by manually updates or by automatic updates. You can enable that in wp-config.php And you if install Wordpress through Softacoulus (which is included in On-Rev), you can enable auto upgrade in Softacoulus in the config area for your WP installation. So regardless how you have installed Wordpress, you can enable auto upgrade. Why should On-Rev support do this for you? Matthias Rebbe Tel +49 5741 310000 ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? From livfoss at mac.com Wed Dec 6 08:49:35 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 14:49:35 +0100 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <66b118e6-416d-4cbc-a8df-3bbc8b7a0327@gmail.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> <797987d4-63ee-a842-aca6-e83db577b027@gmail.com> <66b118e6-416d-4cbc-a8df-3bbc8b7a0327@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2217659F-C0A9-418A-A206-0452F5B2B8D6@mac.com> Yes, this is just plain nonsense - it may be a leftover from a previous LC/Revolution idea that ?play? would have a larger range of possible formats, but in the current versions of LC the IDE should warn one off, no? Graham > On 6 Dec 2017, at 10:26, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > However, the fact that "import audio file" allows one to import an mp3 file > is a bit misleading. > > Richmond. > From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 6 10:07:00 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:07:00 +0000 Subject: Map Widget Futures Message-ID: I'm not sure if the news from LiveCode Global is under any kind of NDA? Since I have a business license, we could pose this directly to HQ, but seems useful to share.. hope that is OK and I have this quesiton What is the binary format of the map "object" that the engine or map widget can now pan and zoom? Put another way: could we create our own giant SVG maps, with tools, for example like OmniGraffle or Diagrammix and then run these as "maps" inside the new widget. Or is this tech somehow locked into conventional geographical map formats of some kind? Of course we can build those and show them inside a browser widget, but dealing with hotspots requires messing with JS and the chasm/issues between the JS in the browser widget and the stack-LC engine message path is still huge and problematic (discussed at length elsewhere) So if the new map widget is a member of the msg path in "proper standing" that will be excellent. BR From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 6 11:08:20 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:08:20 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1AED86F8-C35B-466D-8E1C-828EA67267D6@hindu.org> Still searching? let's break this down a bit Almost TSNet functions and commands require a connectionID. In some instances these are aribitrary strings assigned by the dev on the initial call, then used later. but what if we use the simple libURL commands? get url "https://www.domain.com/ping.txt" OR set a mobile player to a URL and start the player OR use "load" how do we extract a connectionID? use case is to check the socketTimeout pSocketID (which may not be the same as a "connectionID" . I am still searching the dictionary for clues on how it all works. Not clear on using plain libURL commands with TSNet? Or if best practice is to switch over entirely to TSnet "vocabulary" for all URL calls. will check for lessons on this later.. Goal is preloading images or pages in books (aka "load") and monitoring bandwidth and triggering notifications in low bandwidth conditions. BR FYI the dictionary does not declare units for the pLowSpeedTime, it should? I've assumed integers = seconds and not milliseconds for param 5. Second (dumb) question: how do we trap for the timeout? we keep checking the tsNetStatusCallback on a loop? and if and when we see timeout we inform the user? But we need a connectionID, so how do we extract a connectionID from put/get/set/ http urls? where we are targeting browser widget on a card. Or a mobilePlayer? From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Dec 6 11:15:55 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:15:55 +0100 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <1AED86F8-C35B-466D-8E1C-828EA67267D6@hindu.org> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <1AED86F8-C35B-466D-8E1C-828EA67267D6@hindu.org> Message-ID: <3F291648-C3B2-44DA-B9C4-01761FEFA2CA@m-r-d.de> The connection ID is only used/needed when you use the asynchronous commands of tsNet. The synchronous commands like tsNetUploadSync or tsNetFileUploadSync or others (they are ending with Sync) do not use connectionIDs. And i assume that put URL and get URL are using the synchronous commands. Matthias > Am 06.12.2017 um 17:08 schrieb Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >: > > Still searching? let's break this down a bit > > Almost TSNet functions and commands require a connectionID. In some instances these are aribitrary strings assigned by the dev on the initial call, then used later. > > but what if we use the simple libURL commands? > > get url "https://www.domain.com/ping.txt " > > OR > > set a mobile player to a URL and start the player > > OR > > use "load" > > how do we extract a connectionID? > > use case is to check the socketTimeout pSocketID (which may not be the same as a "connectionID" . > > I am still searching the dictionary for clues on how it all works. Not clear on using plain libURL commands with TSNet? > Or if best practice is to switch over entirely to TSnet "vocabulary" for all URL calls. will check for lessons on this later.. > > Goal is preloading images or pages in books (aka "load") and monitoring bandwidth and triggering notifications in low bandwidth conditions. > > BR > > > > FYI the dictionary does not declare units for the pLowSpeedTime, it should? I've assumed integers = seconds and not milliseconds for param 5. > > Second (dumb) question: how do we trap for the timeout? we keep checking the tsNetStatusCallback on a loop? and if and when we see timeout we inform the user? But we need a connectionID, so how do we extract a connectionID from put/get/set/ http urls? where we are targeting browser widget on a card. Or a mobilePlayer? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Dec 6 12:34:35 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 12:34:35 -0500 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: <0D1B82DA-F52D-497B-BE43-EA2B4FF59238@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Hi Matthias, When support tells one that he/she is now responsible for keeping Wordpress up to date or face the loss of one?s account, they should at least point out what you have shared with us. > And you if install Wordpress through Softacoulus (which is included in On-Rev), you can enable auto upgrade in Softacoulus in the config area for your WP installation. > > So regardless how you have installed Wordpress, you can enable auto upgrade. No one who has not yet installed Wordpress would know about the automatic upgrade capability. It is also highly unlikely that any user would be willing to log into his/her account every hour of every day just to make sure that Wordpress is up to date so they don?t lose their account. What version of LC is currently installed on On-Rev? It was pretty old the last time I checked. Perhaps an option to easily upgrade to the newest version of LC on On-Rev should be offered? A lot of people paid a bunch of money for On-Rev, and then when support at Run-Rev discovered it was more work than they bargained for, they outsourced it to other companies. The first time it was outsourced, the result wasn?t good. Things are better than they were, but there is still room for improvement. Whenever a company accepts people?s money, that company has an obligation to provide better than average service if they want to stay in business. If it were up to me to run On-Rev, I would make sure that it was always up to date, or offered easy ways to keep everything up to date. You?d never hear me threaten anyone to take away their account if they didn?t keep some piece of software up to date. If that software poses a security risk, as a good steward, I would take care of that issue for my clients so they wouldn?t be at risk. Just my 2 cents for the day. Thank you for your helpful information about Wordpress etc. Cheers, Rick > On Dec 6, 2017, at 6:33 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > >> Am 06.12.2017 um 07:14 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode >: >> Then On-Rev wrote us that note saying that we were >> the ones that would be held responsible for >> ensuring that Wordpress was always up to >> date on our accounts or we could lose our >> accounts. (I thought maintaining up to date >> versions was supposed to be the job of >> On-Rev as good care takers.) > > If you install Wordpress manually from a Zip file then you are responsible for keeping that version up to date. Either by manually updates or by automatic updates. > You can enable that in wp-config.php > > And you if install Wordpress through Softacoulus (which is included in On-Rev), you can enable auto upgrade in Softacoulus in the config area for your WP installation. > > So regardless how you have installed Wordpress, you can enable auto upgrade. > > Why should On-Rev support do this for you? > > > Matthias Rebbe > Tel +49 5741 310000 > ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hello at simonsmith.co Wed Dec 6 13:51:22 2017 From: hello at simonsmith.co (Simon Smith) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 20:51:22 +0200 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: <0D1B82DA-F52D-497B-BE43-EA2B4FF59238@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: It's impracticable for most hosting companies to keep a clients WordPress installation up to date. All the plugins and themes need to be kept up to date at the same time and sometimes need to be manually uploaded. There is then a problem that if a host updates something and something breaks - who would pick this up and who would be responsible for fixing the problem. Then there are also updates that require manual intervention, like changes to the database etc, and sometimes you may not want something updated either. There are a couple of hosting companies that offer this as a managed service - but it comes at quiet a cost and you will face a limit as to what plugins etc you can use. While WordPress is considered secure and actively audited, most themes and plugins are not, and problems do creep in. A website (not just WordPress) that gets hacked can do a fair amount of damage, it affect other sites on the server and when things like IP addresses get black listed, it's a bit of nightmare for the host. Most hosts are pretty understanding (despite what their terms and conditions may say) and if they discover a problem they will notify you, or in serve situations take the site offline and ask you to fix the problem, before putting the site live again. While WordPress is a fantastic platform, it does require regular upkeep - it's not something you can setup and just leave. There are dashboards you can use (e.g. JetPack, WP Remote etc) that let you manage single or multiple sites from a single location offering convenient way for keeping an eye on what needs to be updated. Simon Carpe diem *Simon Smith* m. +27 83 306 7862 On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Matthias, > > When support tells one that he/she is now responsible > for keeping Wordpress up to date or face the loss of > one?s account, they should at least point out what you > have shared with us. > > > And you if install Wordpress through Softacoulus (which is included in > On-Rev), you can enable auto upgrade in Softacoulus in the config area for > your WP installation. > > > > So regardless how you have installed Wordpress, you can enable auto > upgrade. > > No one who has not yet installed Wordpress would know > about the automatic upgrade capability. It is also highly > unlikely that any user would be willing to log into his/her > account every hour of every day just to make sure that > Wordpress is up to date so they don?t lose their account. > > What version of LC is currently installed on On-Rev? > It was pretty old the last time I checked. Perhaps an > option to easily upgrade to the newest version of LC > on On-Rev should be offered? > > A lot of people paid a bunch of money for On-Rev, > and then when support at Run-Rev discovered it > was more work than they bargained for, they > outsourced it to other companies. The first time > it was outsourced, the result wasn?t good. Things > are better than they were, but there is still room > for improvement. Whenever a company accepts > people?s money, that company has an obligation to > provide better than average service if they want > to stay in business. > > If it were up to me to run On-Rev, I would make > sure that it was always up to date, or offered > easy ways to keep everything up to date. You?d > never hear me threaten anyone to take away their > account if they didn?t keep some piece of software > up to date. If that software poses a security risk, > as a good steward, I would take care of that issue > for my clients so they wouldn?t be at risk. > > Just my 2 cents for the day. > > Thank you for your helpful information about > Wordpress etc. > > Cheers, > > Rick > > > > > > > On Dec 6, 2017, at 6:33 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Am 06.12.2017 um 07:14 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > >> Then On-Rev wrote us that note saying that we were > >> the ones that would be held responsible for > >> ensuring that Wordpress was always up to > >> date on our accounts or we could lose our > >> accounts. (I thought maintaining up to date > >> versions was supposed to be the job of > >> On-Rev as good care takers.) > > > > If you install Wordpress manually from a Zip file then you are > responsible for keeping that version up to date. Either by manually updates > or by automatic updates. > > You can enable that in wp-config.php > > > > And you if install Wordpress through Softacoulus (which is included in > On-Rev), you can enable auto upgrade in Softacoulus in the config area for > your WP installation. > > > > So regardless how you have installed Wordpress, you can enable auto > upgrade. > > > > Why should On-Rev support do this for you? > > > > > > Matthias Rebbe > > Tel +49 5741 310000 > > ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 6 14:00:11 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 19:00:11 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <3F291648-C3B2-44DA-B9C4-01761FEFA2CA@m-r-d.de> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <1AED86F8-C35B-466D-8E1C-828EA67267D6@hindu.org> <3F291648-C3B2-44DA-B9C4-01761FEFA2CA@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <1506AE4B-8C27-4CBD-B22D-C8FC6653FA90@hindu.org> Matthias Rebbe wrote: The connection ID is only used/needed when you use the asynchronous commands of tsNet. The synchronous commands like tsNetUploadSync or tsNetFileUploadSync or others (they are ending with Sync) do not use connectionIDs. And i assume that put URL and get URL are using the synchronous commands. Matthias ------- OK then?. if we do this: 1) tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 3000, 3000 , , 3, 12000 2) get url?. 3) how do we trap the SocketTimeOut whose syntax requires a socketID from dictionary: Syntax: socketTimeout pSocketID ? From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 6 14:11:44 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 19:11:44 +0000 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> Message-ID: <34DF8445-D3EF-4A35-B81B-F471A23B593C@hindu.org> Richmond wrote: NO: a player does not "demand" an external file as my example stack demonstrates: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v2juqqu7ojb83v/Carrot%20Player.livecode.zip?dl=0 The player in that stack plays an embedded mp3 file. -------- Does not play here (Mac OS X) of course this works for your embedded audioClips: wav and aifff on mouseup play audioClip "carrot.wav" end mouseup but not the player? are you sure you don?t have a copy of the file resident on disk in the same folder as your stack? BR From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 6 14:14:27 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 11:14:27 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5d1ce936-36df-5319-fda2-dd60a730a0ca@fourthworld.com> Simon Smith wrote: > PHP is definitely the most popular language for letting you code this > way, but then it is pretty much only for the web unlike most other > languages. > > Other languages can work this way too - e.g. Python has PSP, Java has > JSP as does Ruby, Lua etc. but not as popular as PHP. There's a difference in terms of the primary execution object, and how that effects the flow of both execution and the workflow. It seems I'm unable to articulate it clearly enough, but no worries. The bottom line is that LC Server scripts are incompatible with LC Script on the desktop, and when used with wrapped HTML there's no need for me to generalize my tools because they can't be used in that context. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 14:20:54 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 21:20:54 +0200 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <34DF8445-D3EF-4A35-B81B-F471A23B593C@hindu.org> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> <34DF8445-D3EF-4A35-B81B-F471A23B593C@hindu.org> Message-ID: <055711e6-8554-1243-cb74-af2179adb01f@gmail.com> I have already admitted to making a complete foll of myself re that in an earlier post. Richmond. On 6/12/17 9:11 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > NO: a player does not "demand" an external file as my example stack > demonstrates: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v2juqqu7ojb83v/Carrot%20Player.livecode.zip?dl=0 > > The player in that stack plays an embedded mp3 file. > -------- > > Does not play here (Mac OS X) > > of course this works for your embedded audioClips: wav and aifff > > on mouseup > play audioClip "carrot.wav" > end mouseup > > but not the player? are you sure you don?t have a copy of the file resident on disk in the same folder as your stack? > > BR > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 6 14:32:10 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 11:32:10 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3706e351-fad5-5047-0e29-f6913abc8f8f@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > If it were up to me to run On-Rev, I would make > sure that it was always up to date, or offered > easy ways to keep everything up to date. You?d > never hear me threaten anyone to take away their > account if they didn?t keep some piece of software > up to date. If that software poses a security risk, > as a good steward, I would take care of that issue > for my clients so they wouldn?t be at risk. You use Wordpress. I use Drupal. Someone else uses Joomla. Then there's the vast range of other things people can add to their account. Where does a hosting company draw the line with what they can afford to directly support by managing what goes on inside of 200 accounts per machine? Or do they take the safest option and disallow everything other than a small subset of packages they directly manage? Web hosting is a very difficult business, which is why we've seen so much consolidation over the years. The most successful companies (the ones that survived the shakeout of the last decade and are still around to grow) tend to work as Simon described: unmanaged services require a responsibility from the user, managed services take care of those things but at a much higher price. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Dec 6 15:14:59 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:14:59 -0600 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <2217659F-C0A9-418A-A206-0452F5B2B8D6@mac.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> <797987d4-63ee-a842-aca6-e83db577b027@gmail.com> <66b118e6-416d-4cbc-a8df-3bbc8b7a0327@gmail.com> <2217659F-C0A9-418A-A206-0452F5B2B8D6@mac.com> Message-ID: <21346736-34ae-b4a1-1969-dcca6fd10970@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/6/17 7:49 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, this is just plain nonsense - it may be a leftover from a previous LC/Revolution idea that ?play? would have a larger range of possible formats, but in the current versions of LC the IDE should warn one off, no? Probably. There is discussion of audio playback in the user manual. Page 94 discusses the differences between embedded and external audio files. Page 477 begins a more in-depth discussion of audio/video (I didn't read it all.) I found more references in the user guide by searching for "audio" in the find box. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Dec 6 15:18:21 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:18:21 -0500 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: <3706e351-fad5-5047-0e29-f6913abc8f8f@fourthworld.com> References: <3706e351-fad5-5047-0e29-f6913abc8f8f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, > You use Wordpress. After exploring Wordpress a couple of years ago I decided not use Wordpress. I do not use Wordpress. > I use Drupal. Someone else uses Joomla. Then there's the vast range of other things people can add to their account. Yes, many people use different tools as we all do. > Web hosting is a very difficult business, which is why we've seen so much consolidation over the years. No one said Web hosting was an easy business, but it needs to be become better. No company should threaten it?s users to do XYZ upgrade or suffer the loss of their accounts. If it is that important, then the company should make the upgrade process very simple or automatic, or not offer that particular piece of software if it is so vulnerable that it threatens the security of the entire system. I objected to the fact that Run-Rev hyped Wordpress to it?s On-Rev users, and after encouraging them to snap it up, then later slapped them. If you don?t monitor Wordpress closely to be sure it is always up to date, then you lose your account! (That?s just not a good way to conduct business, and I?m glad that I personally didn?t fall into that trap.) When On-Rev was first introduced, the impression given about the service to users was that it was indeed going to be a highly managed service. That has not turned out to be the case clearly as you and Simon have pointed out. (I think a bunch of people may have been disappointed to learn the truth of that matter as it has played out over the years.) The result for me as a user of On-Rev is that I only use it for small websites that I don?t have a large investment of money, time or energy in. It has proven to be an undependable platform for me. Now I run all of my own important servers, which are dependable. I upgrade them, and keep them secure at all times. Thanks for the lively discussion! Cheers, Rick > On Dec 6, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > You use Wordpress. I use Drupal. Someone else uses Joomla. Then there's the vast range of other things people can add to their account. > > Where does a hosting company draw the line with what they can afford to directly support by managing what goes on inside of 200 accounts per machine? > > Or do they take the safest option and disallow everything other than a small subset of packages they directly manage? > > Web hosting is a very difficult business, which is why we've seen so much consolidation over the years. > > The most successful companies (the ones that survived the shakeout of the last decade and are still around to grow) tend to work as Simon described: unmanaged services require a responsibility from the user, managed services take care of those things but at a much higher price. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 6 16:12:36 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 21:12:36 +0000 Subject: What a datagrid "sees" Message-ID: <924AF48F-92ED-47A3-ABF3-B139D893418B@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I have a mouseEnter handler in a table datagrid which is supposed to get the mouseControl. When I point at one of the populated table fields I trigger the mouseEnter, but then nothing else. I can point at another field and this time it might work. Or not. I am not sure why that is happening. It's as though the mouseControl is not getting updated properly. Here is the handler: on mouseEnter put "saw mouseEnter" -- lock messages wait 1 second -- unlock messages put the mouseControl into tMouseControl put space & tMouseControl after msg put word 2 of tMouseControl into tControlNum if tControlNum is not a number then exit mouseEnter put the name of control tControlNum into tControlName put space & tControlName after msg if word 1 of tControlName is not "field" then exit mouseEnter put the long id of me into tMyID put wordOffset("card", tMyID) into tFirstWord put word tFirstWord to -1 of tMyID into tThisCard put the long id of control tControlNum of tThisCard into tTarget put "servicetype,techname,problemdescription,servicedate,starttime,endtime,partstotal,labortotal" into tKeyList dgToolTip tTarget, tKeyList end mouseEnter I always get "saw mouseEnter" but often times nothing else. Any idea why the mouseControl would not ALWAYS be the object being pointed to? Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 6 16:14:40 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 21:14:40 +0000 Subject: IDE breaks down over time In-Reply-To: References: <819d76a3-7231-f512-7501-d47380295429@sonic.net> Message-ID: <549006D6-FCF4-4AFF-BC50-E49D7E6264F3@iotecdigital.com> Yes. I had an issue where ANY notification in the built in Notifications process in OS X 10.11 would max one of the cores. It was a known issue. I haven't seen it in 10.12 or 10.13. Bob S > On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:52 , Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: >> You are saying the IDE process is maxing out? There was a known issue with notifications doing this in >> MacOS 10.11. Are you creating alerts in your apps? > > > Was this to me? > > I don't create alerts, but there's the occasional dialog box. > > Haven't looked to see which process has gone nuts; it's just that > sometimes things go non responsive and/or > the message box cannot be brought up. I think the rest of the menu is > active but does nothing when this happens, > but it hasn't bitten me enough to make sure. > > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Dec 6 16:15:53 2017 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 21:15:53 +0000 Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode Message-ID: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> This continues to be a major source of friction. Once again all my versions of LiveCode seem to have been reset so that they can't find a version of Xcode they like. (At any time I am probably switching between (or have simultaneously open) four version of LC: LC 6.7.11; the latest stable version of 8; the latest 8 RC or sometimes DP; the latest DP of 9. Admittedly I'm not building iOS apps from 6.7.11.) I think that there are two main problems: 1) Because preferences are shared between versions of LiveCode. I believe it is the case than when switching between versions of LiveCode, if the mobile support preferences are opened in a version of LC which doesn't play nice with the selected version of Xcode, that path is deleted; so that next time the version of LC which was previously happy is opened, the path to Xcode is gone. The behaviour may be a little more subtle than this, but I believe something along these lines is correct. 2) Something somewhere along the line of building apps seems to have a hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app; so that while I may be able to maintain a set of different Xcodes in separate folders or separately named, LiveCode won't entirely work this way. So currently I have XCode 8.3.3 as the 'canonical' version, probably because I was using LiveCode 9.0 DP-9. Now that I have updated to LC 9.0 DP-10 and LC 8.1.8 stable, nothing can build (except 8.1.6 stable - which unfortunately doesn't like the widgets in my stack!). 3) A third problem: I now want to start using LC 8.1.8, the latest stable version; what version of Xcode does it use on Mas OS 10.12? According to https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ : > LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 > LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 > LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode 9.1 -Mac OS 10.12.6+ ? iOS 11.1 > > LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 > LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 > LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode 8.3 -Mac OS 10.12 ? iOS 10.3 Some things that would make this better: 1) When the mobile support preferences were opened, if there is a path to a version of Xcode which this version of LC can't use, it would be better if it were displayed - but in grey or red or similar to show it's not usable - rather than being deleted, this would be better. 2) Ensure that iOS standalones can be built if there is a path to a valid version of Xcode, regardless of that path. 3) Change the list on https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ to a table, with LiveCode versions on one axis, MacOS versions on the other, and Xcode/iOS versions in each cell. 3b) Update the above to include the current stable 8.1.8! I'm off for a stiff drink... Ben From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 6 16:21:57 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 21:21:57 +0000 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: <3706e351-fad5-5047-0e29-f6913abc8f8f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8F79A786-A73E-4DD4-B306-2B0CDAB257A6@iotecdigital.com> Wording is a little harsh. A lot of web based systems seem to be working that way these days. We just got notice that we had to upgrade our Compass Sherpa software, which uses an embedded browser, to keep using it. Spiceworks dictates that the core system be updated by certain dates, or certain features will no longer be supported. I do not think this is an issue with On-Rev, but rather the general nature of web based apps themselves. The self-contained nature of locally hosted apps shielded us from this, as company A could upgrade if they wanted, and company B did not have to. This sucked for the software vendor because how long were they expected to support a release? With web hosted products, regular updating is going to be par for the course, and if it's problematic with Wordpress in that it seems that plugins or addons may also have to be updated, well that is the nature of the thing. Bob S > On Dec 6, 2017, at 12:18 , Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > I objected to the fact that Run-Rev hyped Wordpress to > it?s On-Rev users, and after encouraging them to > snap it up, then later slapped them. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Dec 6 16:36:53 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:36:53 -0500 Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode In-Reply-To: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> References: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <007801d36eda$587e1460$097a3d20$@net> #1 below==>The shared prefs is a problem. I see the same thing. Different prefs for each version would solve this. When a new version is started for the first time the prefs from the last version in the series(if any) should be copied to the new version prefs file. But the rub is... if you change some other prefs and go to another version the you lose the change. #2 below==>True... I always keep the Xcode version to build from in the applications folder and name it xcode.app. I put the other versions into another folder. When I upgrade Xcode I move the most recent version into my "OtherXcodeVersions" folder and rename it with the version number. I then download and install the new version into the applications folder. Of course I have to go into the LC prefs and fix the Xcode versions. The hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app should come from the prefs. Radio buttons in the Xcode prefs to indicate==> "Build using tools in this version would solve this. #3 below==> I agree the docs need to be updated matrix whenever a new Xcode/Mac/LC version is released. Even if LC does not support a particular combination it should be documented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:16 PM To: Use LiveCode Cc: Ben Rubinstein Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode This continues to be a major source of friction. Once again all my versions of LiveCode seem to have been reset so that they can't find a version of Xcode they like. (At any time I am probably switching between (or have simultaneously open) four version of LC: LC 6.7.11; the latest stable version of 8; the latest 8 RC or sometimes DP; the latest DP of 9. Admittedly I'm not building iOS apps from 6.7.11.) I think that there are two main problems: 1) Because preferences are shared between versions of LiveCode. I believe it is the case than when switching between versions of LiveCode, if the mobile support preferences are opened in a version of LC which doesn't play nice with the selected version of Xcode, that path is deleted; so that next time the version of LC which was previously happy is opened, the path to Xcode is gone. The behaviour may be a little more subtle than this, but I believe something along these lines is correct. 2) Something somewhere along the line of building apps seems to have a hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app; so that while I may be able to maintain a set of different Xcodes in separate folders or separately named, LiveCode won't entirely work this way. So currently I have XCode 8.3.3 as the 'canonical' version, probably because I was using LiveCode 9.0 DP-9. Now that I have updated to LC 9.0 DP-10 and LC 8.1.8 stable, nothing can build (except 8.1.6 stable - which unfortunately doesn't like the widgets in my stack!). 3) A third problem: I now want to start using LC 8.1.8, the latest stable version; what version of Xcode does it use on Mas OS 10.12? According to https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ : > LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 LiveCode 8.1.8 > RC-2 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode > 9.1 -Mac OS 10.12.6+ ? iOS 11.1 > > LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 LiveCode 8.2.0 > DP-1 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode > 8.3 -Mac OS 10.12 ? iOS 10.3 Some things that would make this better: 1) When the mobile support preferences were opened, if there is a path to a version of Xcode which this version of LC can't use, it would be better if it were displayed - but in grey or red or similar to show it's not usable - rather than being deleted, this would be better. 2) Ensure that iOS standalones can be built if there is a path to a valid version of Xcode, regardless of that path. 3) Change the list on https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ to a table, with LiveCode versions on one axis, MacOS versions on the other, and Xcode/iOS versions in each cell. 3b) Update the above to include the current stable 8.1.8! I'm off for a stiff drink... Ben _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Dec 6 17:05:36 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:05:36 -0600 Subject: Sending a message to users that floats above everything In-Reply-To: References: <950CE409-2C3E-46EB-A124-995658A30CEA@gmail.com> <15e05745a68.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <1c378f09289c8962f0faf192b448bf55@livecode.com> <0d2f0594-b810-7ac3-1424-12ee2d3b4515@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3652ef53-a87e-d8dd-e488-6c9e590334c9@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/3/17 5:09 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 4 Dec 2017, at 10:01 am, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Bump. >> >> I think the team has forgotten about the PR for the Android toast. Anyone want to try their hand at making it in LCB? > > Actually Mark already did it in LCB but the PR is waiting for him to add some docs and notes: > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5860 > > If you are keen you can download the file and compile it locally. Okay, I tried that. Ran a test stack and got errors on line 3 of the lcb file -- something about a wrong variable type. So I guess I'll wait for docs unless someone figures it out before then. Remote debugging came in handy though. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 6 17:34:14 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:34:14 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55593380-4c07-7dca-17bc-23cb38c953a0@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > Hi Richard, > >> You use Wordpress. > > After exploring Wordpress a couple of years ago I decided not use > Wordpress. > I do not use Wordpress. My bad, though earnestly I must admit I don't understand this thread: if we're not talking about Wordpress, what are we talking about and why has so much of this thread been about Wordpress? > No one said Web hosting was an easy business, > but it needs to be become better. No company should > threaten it?s users to do XYZ upgrade or suffer the > loss of their accounts. If it is that important, then the > company should make the upgrade process very > simple or automatic, or not offer that particular piece > of software if it is so vulnerable that it threatens the > security of the entire system. I'd like that too. But as with much of life, what I want and what the world offers me is often different. ;) I do see managed services. But like Simon said, they're not cheap. > I objected to the fact that Run-Rev hyped Wordpress to > it?s On-Rev users, and after encouraging them to > snap it up, then later slapped them. One man's "slapped" is another man's "please read the Terms and Conditions". I don't use on-rev and haven't seen their ToC so I don't have an opinion there. But from what I've heard their policies don't seem unusual, at least compared to the half-dozen or so hosting companies I've used over the years. Maybe the bigger problem is with shared hosting in general. Like you say, it's useful for certain types of low-traffic sites with limited config needs. But once you get a large enough audience or want the freedom to add persistent services, VPSes are hard to beat. It means more responsibility, but also more freedom. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From tom at makeshyft.com Wed Dec 6 17:34:54 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:34:54 -0500 Subject: Datagrid 2 In-Reply-To: References: <91FAFBB6-16A3-4040-93EC-DA35924537D9@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Mike, I am a heavy user of DG features. was just finding out about the timeframe of new scroll capabilities on mobile and overall dg speed improvements Sounds good .. thank you Kevin Miller. On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Oh I'm an idiot. It's not mobtablefield, it's modtablefield > Email: bernd at bernd.niggemann@uni-wh.de to make sure you have the latest > version. > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Mike, > > > > do you have an url where i can find mobTableField or more information > > about it? > > > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > > > > > Am 05.12.2017 um 20:52 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > > > Tom, > > > The other option is to use mobTableField (I think Bernd is the author) > if > > > you don't need all the bells and whistles of the DG. > > > I'm using both in different mobile apps. The original DG works fine > even > > > for large DG's with horizontal and vertical scrolling, but MTF is even > > more > > > responsive. > > > ETA - they were talking about "soon" at the last LCG conference, which > I > > > would assume means 1Q 18, even though they were talking end of 17. > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi folks, I'm bidding on a project and would like to get a sense as to > > the > > >> eta of datagrid 2 especially on mobile. I would love to buy a LC Indy > > >> License and do the job. > > >> > > >> During Campaign the eta was oct/november, but i get they are just > > >> estimates. Is there a more up to date eta? > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Tom > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Wed Dec 6 17:51:35 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 23:51:35 +0100 Subject: Naive Player Questions In-Reply-To: <2217659F-C0A9-418A-A206-0452F5B2B8D6@mac.com> References: <71EA94A7-C8DC-4BD2-9FD6-25D93CA6FEEC@mac.com> <39aa5875-8060-6f6a-c334-f568bee97264@gmail.com> <797987d4-63ee-a842-aca6-e83db577b027@gmail.com> <66b118e6-416d-4cbc-a8df-3bbc8b7a0327@gmail.com> <2217659F-C0A9-418A-A206-0452F5B2B8D6@mac.com> Message-ID: <9786D665-C933-4D76-A588-EF593A7418E0@major-k.de> Hi Graham, > Am 06.12.2017 um 14:49 schrieb Graham Samuel via use-livecode : > > Yes, this is just plain nonsense - it may be a leftover from a previous LC/Revolution idea that ?play? would have a larger range of possible formats, but in the current versions of LC the IDE should warn one off, no? > > Graham > >> On 6 Dec 2017, at 10:26, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> However, the fact that "import audio file" allows one to import an mp3 file >> is a bit misleading. >> >> Richmond. I already reported this fact in 2014 with very little success: Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From alex at tweedly.net Wed Dec 6 18:00:16 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 23:00:16 +0000 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: <5d1ce936-36df-5319-fda2-dd60a730a0ca@fourthworld.com> References: <5d1ce936-36df-5319-fda2-dd60a730a0ca@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 06/12/2017 19:14, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > There's a difference in terms of the primary execution object, and how > that effects the flow of both execution and the workflow. > > It seems I'm unable to articulate it clearly enough, but no worries. > The bottom line is that LC Server scripts are incompatible with LC > Script on the desktop, and when used with wrapped HTML there's no need > for me to generalize my tools because they can't be used in that context. > I'm still unclear on what does (can?) and what doesn't (can't) be done with LC Server scripts on the desktop. If I don't use mingled/wrapped HTML (which I certainly don't, afaik) - could I use your tools for my LC Server scripts (nb - they do use 'include's). In fact, to be even more specific - assuming "my" scripts are actually revIgniter with a controller or two added by me, would it be possible to use the tools ? Thanks Alex. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 6 18:04:47 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 23:04:47 +0000 Subject: What a datagrid "sees" In-Reply-To: <924AF48F-92ED-47A3-ABF3-B139D893418B@iotecdigital.com> References: <924AF48F-92ED-47A3-ABF3-B139D893418B@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <904AA61F-21FA-4F0F-B5D7-BBB01232D40D@iotecdigital.com> Okay I have figured out what this is. the mouseControl is sometimes returning the LAST object that was being pointed to, and NOT the CURRENT object being pointed to. I think this is a bug. I will try to come up with a sample stack and post it on QC. Bob S > On Dec 6, 2017, at 13:12 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. I have a mouseEnter handler in a table datagrid which is supposed to get the mouseControl. When I point at one of the populated table fields I trigger the mouseEnter, but then nothing else. I can point at another field and this time it might work. Or not. I am not sure why that is happening. It's as though the mouseControl is not getting updated properly. Here is the handler: > > on mouseEnter > put "saw mouseEnter" > > -- lock messages > wait 1 second > -- unlock messages > > put the mouseControl into tMouseControl > > put space & tMouseControl after msg > put word 2 of tMouseControl into tControlNum > if tControlNum is not a number then exit mouseEnter > put the name of control tControlNum into tControlName > > put space & tControlName after msg > > if word 1 of tControlName is not "field" then exit mouseEnter > put the long id of me into tMyID > put wordOffset("card", tMyID) into tFirstWord > put word tFirstWord to -1 of tMyID into tThisCard > put the long id of control tControlNum of tThisCard into tTarget > put "servicetype,techname,problemdescription,servicedate,starttime,endtime,partstotal,labortotal" into tKeyList > dgToolTip tTarget, tKeyList > end mouseEnter > > I always get "saw mouseEnter" but often times nothing else. Any idea why the mouseControl would not ALWAYS be the object being pointed to? > > Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 6 18:25:00 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 23:25:00 +0000 Subject: What a datagrid "sees" In-Reply-To: <904AA61F-21FA-4F0F-B5D7-BBB01232D40D@iotecdigital.com> References: <924AF48F-92ED-47A3-ABF3-B139D893418B@iotecdigital.com> <904AA61F-21FA-4F0F-B5D7-BBB01232D40D@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <339BE737-6D56-488D-9967-E239B72E3169@iotecdigital.com> Posted http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20747. This may be a regression from way back in the 2.9 days. Bob S > On Dec 6, 2017, at 15:04 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay I have figured out what this is. the mouseControl is sometimes returning the LAST object that was being pointed to, and NOT the CURRENT object being pointed to. I think this is a bug. I will try to come up with a sample stack and post it on QC. > > Bob S From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 18:29:36 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:29:36 -0800 Subject: sorting with number late in name Message-ID: Now that I've hit ten numbered items, I'm having an issue with maintenance routines. If I have the items p13_1.07 p13_1.08 p13_2.04 p13_10.01 I want them to sort in that order. However, the 10 will sort between the 1s and 2s. Is there a "decent" way to do this without a custom function? All I'm coming up with so far is a script that looks for a single digit number and renames to put a 0 in front of it . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 18:31:42 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:31:42 -0800 Subject: crumbly IDE Message-ID: This is in the 8.2 series, but I think folks have sen it before. I haven't nailed it down yet, but I seem to permanently lose parts of the IDE, possibly after toggling messages off and back on from the toolbar. The message box still works, and can close stacks, but the stats seem to completely ignore messages forevermore. About 5 times today, I think . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From tore.nilsen at me.com Wed Dec 6 18:32:56 2017 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 00:32:56 +0100 Subject: sorting with number late in name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92E87736-CDA8-44A1-9327-C0589DDE3B50@me.com> You could always try to set the itemDelimiter to _ and then sort the lines numeric by last item of each. Tore Nilsen > 7. des. 2017 kl. 00:29 skrev Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode : > > Now that I've hit ten numbered items, I'm having an issue with > maintenance routines. > > If I have the items > > p13_1.07 > p13_1.08 > p13_2.04 > p13_10.01 > > I want them to sort in that order. However, the 10 will sort between > the 1s and 2s. > > Is there a "decent" way to do this without a custom function? > > All I'm coming up with so far is a script that looks for a single > digit number and renames to put a 0 in front of it . . . > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Dec 6 18:34:13 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 00:34:13 +0100 Subject: sorting with number late in name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E67C53F-0000-40DB-9A75-B85A624D8409@major-k.de> Hi Richard, > Am 07.12.2017 um 00:29 schrieb Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode : > > Now that I've hit ten numbered items, I'm having an issue with > maintenance routines. > > If I have the items > > p13_1.07 > p13_1.08 > p13_2.04 > p13_10.01 > > I want them to sort in that order. However, the 10 will sort between > the 1s and 2s. "numeric" is the magic word! :-) > Is there a "decent" way to do this without a custom function? > > All I'm coming up with so far is a script that looks for a single > digit number and renames to put a 0 in front of it . . . ... set itemdel to "_" sort lines of fld 1 numeric by item 2 of each ... > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 18:47:54 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:47:54 -0800 Subject: sorting with number late in name In-Reply-To: <6E67C53F-0000-40DB-9A75-B85A624D8409@major-k.de> References: <6E67C53F-0000-40DB-9A75-B85A624D8409@major-k.de> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > set itemdel to "_" > sort lines of fld 1 numeric by item 2 of each I *thought* that that was in there somewhere, but I didn't see it when I pulled the dictionary page :( For that matter, the one I just pulled didn't look a lot like what I was reading earlier. Yes, that did it. I had the item del, but had used "ascending" in the second line (probably from a prior misread of the dictionary years ago :) ) thanks -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed Dec 6 18:51:50 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:51:50 -0800 Subject: read larger data streams over sockets - broken? Message-ID: Is anyone else having problems with moving multi-MB data streams across sockets in LC 8? I support a LAN-based system that relies on sockets to move data between server and clients. The server's response to a single client request will often consist of several hundred KB to several MB of data. Until LC 8 the successful approach has been: - client sends request to server - server returns data to client - client reads the returned data: read from socket tMySocket for 1 line -- contains the length of the data that follows put it into tDataLength repeat while length(tData) < tDataLength ??? read from socket tMySocket for tDataLength ??? wait 1 millisecond with messages ??? put it after tData end repeat This approach no longer works in LC 8. There are 2 new issues: ??? - large time delays ??? - wrong final data size Here are some actual results from a client that was trying to receive 151k of data - not that big! tDataLength = 151954 read #1 got 0 chars in 15.25521 secs read #2 got 131761 chars in 15.001723 secs read #3 got 131761 chars in 0.001813 secs actual received data length = 263522 total elapsed time = 30.259262 secs I changed the client code to read 'until EOF' and got similar outcomes: tDataLength = 151954 read until EOF #1 got 0 chars in 15.254117 secs read until EOF #2 got 131761 chars in 15.004341 secs read until EOF #3 got 131761 chars in 0.001733 secs actual received data length = 263522 total elapsed time = 30.260464 secs Either 'read' structure works fine as long as the data length doesn't exceed roughly 128k (that's the max in my world at least - YMMV). I'm not sure if the 128k size constraint is coming from LC or from my network (a standard gigabit-Ethernet LAN with router, switches, computers) or from some other source. I know this is a bug and plan to file a bug report, but I wanted to see if anyone else has experienced something similar. Thanks - Phil Davis -- Phil Davis From tore.nilsen at me.com Wed Dec 6 18:54:20 2017 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 00:54:20 +0100 Subject: sorting with number late in name In-Reply-To: References: <6E67C53F-0000-40DB-9A75-B85A624D8409@major-k.de> Message-ID: <3220730B-1B52-4642-8FA0-39D3CBCF30BF@me.com> Ascending is implied when you sort numeric. If you want to sort it the other way round use: sort lines of fld 1 numeric descending by item 2 of each Tore > 7. des. 2017 kl. 00:47 skrev Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode : > > Yes, that did it. I had the item del, but had used "ascending" in the > second line (probably from a prior misread of the dictionary years ago > :) ) From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed Dec 6 19:02:52 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 00:02:52 +0000 Subject: Map Widget Futures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'a member of the msg path in "proper standing"' - the map widget just wraps a native view essentially. The map 'object' is only accessible through foreign handlers in LCB, but if it can be done natively then it can be done. In the first instance the widget will support annotations/markers and polylines, but won't support generic overlays. Just thinking aloud for a second, one way we could potentially make that work, and make the map widget a lot more flexible on the objective-c side is to allow custom implementations of the map delegate in LCB. This would enable you to write the appropriate callbacks to do custom overlays. I can't think of a particularly nice way to support overlays as a basic property, but that might just be because I haven't thought about it enough. On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:07 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I'm not sure if the news from LiveCode Global is under any kind of NDA? > Since I have a business license, we could pose this directly to HQ, but > seems useful to share.. hope that is OK and I have this quesiton > > What is the binary format of the map "object" that the engine or map > widget can now pan and zoom? > > Put another way: could we create our own giant SVG maps, with tools, for > example like OmniGraffle or Diagrammix and then run these as "maps" inside > the new widget. Or is this tech somehow locked into conventional > geographical map formats of some kind? > > Of course we can build those and show them inside a browser widget, but > dealing with hotspots requires messing with JS and the chasm/issues between > the JS in the browser widget and the stack-LC engine message path is still > huge and problematic (discussed at length elsewhere) So if the new map > widget is a member of the msg path in "proper standing" that will be > excellent. > > BR > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 19:27:37 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:27:37 -0700 Subject: What a datagrid "sees" In-Reply-To: <339BE737-6D56-488D-9967-E239B72E3169@iotecdigital.com> References: <924AF48F-92ED-47A3-ABF3-B139D893418B@iotecdigital.com> <904AA61F-21FA-4F0F-B5D7-BBB01232D40D@iotecdigital.com> <339BE737-6D56-488D-9967-E239B72E3169@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: As a workaround, you could try a slightly different method.. local sLooping on mouseleave put false into sLooping -- stop the loop when outside the dg end mouseleave on mouseEnter if sLooping is empty then put false into sLooping if not sLooping then send "startloop" to me in 10 millisec put true into sLooping end if end mouseenter command startloop if slooping then -- do whatever stuff is needed when pointing at a control here -- this just updates the msg box depending on what is being pointed at -- since it looks like you're messing with tooltips, you'd probably --want to check to see if it has already been set and keep a list of "set" tooltips -- so that you don't reset the same tip every 100 millisec -- then in mouseleave one could "unset" based on the list. if the mousecontrol is not empty then put the long id of the mousecontrol /* check to see if the mousecontrol is empty in case the mouseleaves while a loop is still queued. Avoids a potential error. would probably need to filter any controls NOT part of the grid for the same reason. wouldn't want to change things for a non-grid control due to a fast mouse movement. */ send "startloop" to me in 100 millisec end if end startloop Another potential issue I can see happening would be a quick out and in mouse movement causing dual loops (maybe more?) to run. So judicious use of the pendingmessages would likely help. On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Posted http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20747. This may be a > regression from way back in the 2.9 days. > > Bob S > > > > On Dec 6, 2017, at 15:04 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Okay I have figured out what this is. the mouseControl is sometimes > returning the LAST object that was being pointed to, and NOT the CURRENT > object being pointed to. I think this is a bug. I will try to come up with > a sample stack and post it on QC. > > > > Bob S > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 6 19:48:58 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:48:58 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6142a85a-e252-66be-d818-ac13e2021490@fourthworld.com> Alex Tweedly wrote: > On 06/12/2017 19:14, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> There's a difference in terms of the primary execution object, and >> how that effects the flow of both execution and the workflow. >> >> It seems I'm unable to articulate it clearly enough, but no worries. >> The bottom line is that LC Server scripts are incompatible with LC >> Script on the desktop, and when used with wrapped HTML there's no >> need for me to generalize my tools because they can't be used in that >> context. >> > I'm still unclear on what does (can?) and what doesn't (can't) be done > with LC Server scripts on the desktop. > > If I don't use mingled/wrapped HTML (which I certainly don't, afaik) - > could I use your tools for my LC Server scripts (nb - they do use > 'include's). > > In fact, to be even more specific - assuming "my" scripts are actually > revIgniter with a controller or two added by me, would it be possible > to use the tools ? By what means would you execute those with LC Script on the desktop? A few examples of incompatibilities between LC Script on the desktop and LC Server (designated by letter in case anyone wants to refer to any of these): ---------------------------------------------- EXAMPLE A This: ...runs great when you pass a file with that to LC Server. LC Script for the desktop won't know what do to with it. You could run that as data through the merge function and it would work well, but that's a different execution sequence than passing a file directly to an engine. ---------------------------------------------- EXAMPLE B The implicit merge LC Server uses is more complete than the explicitly-called merge function. For example, the merge function doesn't handle conditionals cross non-code parts, e.g.:

Some data that happens to be HTML

Some other data that happens to be HTML

That'll work in LC Server, but AFAIK is incompatible with LC Script on the desktop. ---------------------------------------------- EXAMPLE C For the first dozen or so years of the desktop engine, you could pass it a text file with something like this in it: on startup put DoSomethingWith($REMOTE_ADDR) into tReply put "HTTP/1.x 200 OK" &cr& \ Content-Length: "& len(tReply) &crlf&crlf& tReply end startup With the introduction of LC Server the ability of the desktop file to handle plain text files containing code disappeared. In its place only LC Server could handle those, and only when wrapped within the "" tags. ---------------------------------------------- EXAMPLE D Environment variables in the original desktop engine were handled directly as defined by Apache. In LC Server they are copied into vars that are similar but not the same, e.g. the env var: $REMOTE_ADDR ...is available in LC Server as: $_SERVER["REMOTE_ADDR"] ---------------------------------------------- EXAMPLE E A few years ago on of the team members recognized that it would be useful to be able to run simple text files containing scripts only with a bare engine. Since LC Server is the only bare engine now executable by itself without having to be made into a standalone, and perhaps unaware of the long history of having been able to do this before, it was added but in an odd way, without any handler declaration, just raw statements, e.g.: get 1+1 add 5 to it put SomeFunction(it) into tResult function SomeFunction p1 return p1+100 end SomeFunction So code outside of a handler is a sort of implied handler, but to distinguish that code from anything in an actual handler the other handlers look like handlers. This is unlike anything in any xTalk, and breaks the otherwise beautifully learnable consistency of "code lives in handlers". ---------------------------------------------- EXAMPLE F Even more recently it was recognized that script-only stacks can be useful, so now you can have something almost like the original text files we used to use, but with the addition of one line at the top specifying that it's a "stack": stack "Some Stack Name" on startup DoSomething end startup AFAIK this is not compatible with LC Server, at least not in terms of expecting the startup handler to fire if you pass that text file to it. I don't know if it'll choke on the "stack" declaration, but my understanding is that only code outside of any handler is used in the role of a startup handler. You can, however, bring it into use as a library, provided you have some other execution object (an HTML file) use "start using". ---------------------------------------------- EXAMPLE G With the LC Script desktop engine, "put" commands output to stdout at the time they're called. With LC Server it appears "put"s are buffered and output as a single stream when processing of the page that has been completed. ---------------------------------------------- There may be other differences; these are just the ones off the top of my head. Before LC Server there was one engine and it worked according to one set of rules: - Execution began with a startup handler, which could be in either a text file or a script. - If you wanted to mix HTML with LC Script, you could read those pages in an run their contents through the merge function. When LC Server was introduced it follows a more PHP-flavored way of working: - Execution begins in an HTML page, in which LC Script is embedded. - A rough equivalent of merge is automatically applied to that page automatically, but using a form more complete than the merge function available to the desktop engine. Having enjoyed many years of CGI development with the desktop engine before LC Server came along, I was initially excited by the prospect of a server-optimized engine. And indeed it handles a few things nicely that we used to use a bit of custom code for (parsing POST, etc.). But in practice I found that those conveniences were more than offset by not being able to run or debug code within the IDE. So I returned to using the desktop engine, in the form of a standalone. Stylistically it's a bit different from working with LC Server, but very much akin to what we used to do before LC Server. But my interest isn't about maintaining old workflows. It's about being able to write, run, and debug efficiently. I can honestly say that much of the work I've been doing would have been far more expensive to produce if I'd been limited to having to use LC Server. Imaging baking a pie. Then imagine baking a pie in a bottle. ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 6 19:56:41 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:56:41 -0800 Subject: Map Widget Futures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ali Lloyd wrote: > ...make the map widget a lot more flexible on the > objective-c side... iOS-only? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 6 19:56:45 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 00:56:45 +0000 Subject: Map Widget Futures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25528F56-35FE-4131-BAEB-B1990A0F2AB2@hindu.org> Thanks for replying Ali I wasn't thinking of overlays, though that could be useful and would obviously be an early enhancment request. message path: Presumably "markers" are in the msg path? i.e. like buttons, and would respond to mouseup/down/touch. That would suffice for my V1 vision of use cases. Though I guess without overlays we are forced to abrupt changes on the screen if we want the map to be a portal to ther data?but? leave that for V2? Today's question is not about overlays? the question is: "What is the map object?" Where does it come from and can we supply some alt document? for example, if one had an artist create The WonderFul World of Ali, i.e. a fantasy map?in SynFig Studio? one could export to a vector format. How do we make this the map "object" Other more prosaic uses could be: complex diagrams that cover "hectares/square miles" of space? the map of Oxford University campus? Tolkein's Middle Earth etc. engineering diagram with various parts of some machine all laid out on one complex, very large "map" -- giant SVG's. giant in the sense of being created on a canvas in your illustration software set to 4 feet by 4 feet? which then can export to vector? scale up or down, but at that size one can work in areas with a lot of detail? and create a "Villiage of Hobbits" off in the corner? Here for example is a very simple test SVG export from a small inexpensive program that I like called "Diagrammix" http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/html/info/img/site-map.svg so what comprises the map "object" and what is the scope of its format, properties etc. Obviously the developer has to source the map object from somewhere, in some format. On 12/6/17, 2:03 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ali Lloyd via use-livecode" wrote: I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'a member of the msg path in "proper standing"' - the map widget just wraps a native view essentially. The map 'object' is only accessible through foreign handlers in LCB, but if it can be done natively then it can be done. In the first instance the widget will support annotations/markers and polylines, but won't support generic overlays. From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 6 21:12:39 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 02:12:39 +0000 Subject: read larger data streams over sockets - broken? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79396126-5189-4FC6-8F19-A9A3EE185908@hindu.org> May not mean anything for your use case, but I have built an in-house revision control system for InDesign documents? it's been in use for several years after the death of Adobe VersionCue (which was a night mare anyway) our team loves it: super simple, never fails, we never lose data, ever. I use shell commands for everything. not sure why you need sockets if you are just copy files around?from our Macs to the Synology server in the next room? my long stack script just manages different put format "mv \"someFile\", \"newFileName\" # into cmdRename and cp # similar strings then get shell cmdRename and the OS does everything.. If you want to see the stack you are welcome. It's being used (or was) by some publication team in Singapore for the same work. On 12/6/17, 1:52 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Phil Davis via use-livecode" wrote: Is anyone else having problems with moving multi-MB data streams across sockets in LC 8? I support a LAN-based system that relies on sockets to move data between server and clients. The server's response to a single client request will often consist of several hundred KB to several MB of data. Until LC 8 the successful approach has been: From monte at appisle.net Wed Dec 6 21:33:36 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 13:33:36 +1100 Subject: read larger data streams over sockets - broken? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a guess it sounds like some kind of encoding issue but if you can provide demo client and server stacks that demonstrate the issue that will help us track down the issue. Also let us know the previous version it was working on. Cheers Monte > On 7 Dec 2017, at 10:51 am, Phil Davis via use-livecode wrote: > > Is anyone else having problems with moving multi-MB data streams across sockets in LC 8? > > I support a LAN-based system that relies on sockets to move data between server and clients. The server's response to a single client request will often consist of several hundred KB to several MB of data. Until LC 8 the successful approach has been: > > - client sends request to server > > - server returns data to client > > - client reads the returned data: > > read from socket tMySocket for 1 line -- contains the length of the > data that follows > put it into tDataLength > repeat while length(tData) < tDataLength > read from socket tMySocket for tDataLength > wait 1 millisecond with messages > put it after tData > end repeat > > This approach no longer works in LC 8. There are 2 new issues: > - large time delays > - wrong final data size > > Here are some actual results from a client that was trying to receive 151k of data - not that big! > > tDataLength = 151954 > > read #1 got 0 chars in 15.25521 secs > read #2 got 131761 chars in 15.001723 secs > read #3 got 131761 chars in 0.001813 secs > actual received data length = 263522 > total elapsed time = 30.259262 secs > > I changed the client code to read 'until EOF' and got similar outcomes: > > tDataLength = 151954 > > read until EOF #1 got 0 chars in 15.254117 secs > read until EOF #2 got 131761 chars in 15.004341 secs > read until EOF #3 got 131761 chars in 0.001733 secs > actual received data length = 263522 > total elapsed time = 30.260464 secs > > Either 'read' structure works fine as long as the data length doesn't exceed roughly 128k (that's the max in my world at least - YMMV). I'm not sure if the 128k size constraint is coming from LC or from my network (a standard gigabit-Ethernet LAN with router, switches, computers) or from some other source. > > I know this is a bug and plan to file a bug report, but I wanted to see if anyone else has experienced something similar. > > Thanks - > Phil Davis > > -- > Phil Davis > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed Dec 6 23:36:38 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 20:36:38 -0800 Subject: read larger data streams over sockets - broken? In-Reply-To: <79396126-5189-4FC6-8F19-A9A3EE185908@hindu.org> References: <79396126-5189-4FC6-8F19-A9A3EE185908@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1ed1dfe6-f450-6d0f-d1e2-d2ebb8d452d0@pdslabs.net> On 12/6/17 6:12 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > May not mean anything for your use case, but I have built an in-house revision control system for InDesign documents? it's been in use for several years after the death of Adobe VersionCue (which was a night mare anyway) our team loves it: super simple, never fails, we never lose data, ever. > > I use shell commands for everything. not sure why you need sockets if you are just copy files around?from our Macs to the Synology server in the next room? Right, a NAS device can work very well as it obviously does in your situation. Unfortunately this a point of sale (and more) business system where we want to control how much access the users have to the data, especially regarding things like customer credit card info. So we don't want to have the server mounted on each user's desktop (as would be required with a NAS) where they can just go in and poke around. But thanks for your offer! Phil > > my long stack script just manages different > > put format "mv \"someFile\", \"newFileName\" # into cmdRename > and > cp # similar strings > > then > > get shell cmdRename > > and the OS does everything.. > > If you want to see the stack you are welcome. It's being used (or was) by some publication team in Singapore for the same work. > > On 12/6/17, 1:52 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Phil Davis via use-livecode" wrote: > > Is anyone else having problems with moving multi-MB data streams across > sockets in LC 8? > > I support a LAN-based system that relies on sockets to move data between > server and clients. The server's response to a single client request > will often consist of several hundred KB to several MB of data. Until LC > 8 the successful approach has been: > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Dec 7 03:33:22 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 18:33:22 +1000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> Message-ID: BR, > OK, now going over to the forum on this dropbox thread I see Jacque's and Charle's comments. 5 secs seems a little long.. so if we use the algorithm "We want to tell users what is up or dim content options from remote servers in 3 seconds" (and FTP is not in the cards) we get: > > tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 3000, 3000 , , 3, 12000 > > This translates "you must have a 96kbps connection or else?" right? > > FYI the dictionary does not declare units for the pLowSpeedTime, it should? I've assumed integers = seconds and not milliseconds for param 5. I will get that fixed in the dictionary in the next version, thanks for letting me know. tsNetSetTimeouts uses the last two parameters to determine if a connection should be dropped if the ?average? speed of the transfer falls below the values set. To use your example, if you want to ensure that the average speed of the transfer does not fall below 96kbps, calculating the average speed over a 3 second period, you would specify a value of 3 for the second last parameter and 96000 (96kbps x 1000 bytes per kB) for the last parameter to tsNetSetTimeouts. > Second (dumb) question: how do we trap for the timeout? we keep checking the tsNetStatusCallback on a loop? and if and when we see timeout we inform the user? But we need a connectionID, so how do we extract a connectionID from put/get/set/ http urls? where we are targeting browser widget on a card. Or a mobilePlayer? If you are using a standard synchronous libUrl request (put URL, post x to URL, etc...) then the request will abort as soon as the connection speed falls below the threshold specified and an error will be stored in the result. For asynchronous tsNet requests, the callback message will be sent with an error code indicating the failure. Hope that helps, Cheers. Charles From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Dec 7 03:37:09 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 18:37:09 +1000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <1506AE4B-8C27-4CBD-B22D-C8FC6653FA90@hindu.org> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <1AED86F8-C35B-466D-8E1C-828EA67267D6@hindu.org> <3F291648-C3B2-44DA-B9C4-01761FEFA2CA@m-r-d.de> <1506AE4B-8C27-4CBD-B22D-C8FC6653FA90@hindu.org> Message-ID: BR, > On 7 Dec 2017, at 5:00 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > > Matthias Rebbe wrote: > > The connection ID is only used/needed when you use the asynchronous commands of tsNet. The synchronous commands like tsNetUploadSync or tsNetFileUploadSync or others (they are ending with Sync) do not use connectionIDs. And i assume that put URL and get URL are using the synchronous commands. > Matthias > ------- > OK then?. if we do this: > > 1) tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 3000, 3000 , , 3, 12000 > > 2) get url?. At this point, if the speed drops below 12kbps, then the get URL command will return with the result set to indicate failure. > > 3) how do we trap the SocketTimeOut whose syntax requires a socketID > > from dictionary: > > Syntax: > > socketTimeout pSocketID > > ? tsNet does not use standard LiveCode sockets, so socketTimeout does not affect connections using it. Regards, Charles > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Dec 7 03:43:28 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 18:43:28 +1000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> Message-ID: <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> Sorry, divide my figures for the last parameter to tsNetSetTimeouts by 8, it has been a long day! > On 7 Dec 2017, at 6:33 pm, Charles Warwick wrote: > > BR, > > >> OK, now going over to the forum on this dropbox thread I see Jacque's and Charle's comments. 5 secs seems a little long.. so if we use the algorithm "We want to tell users what is up or dim content options from remote servers in 3 seconds" (and FTP is not in the cards) we get: >> >> tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 3000, 3000 , , 3, 12000 >> >> This translates "you must have a 96kbps connection or else?" right? >> >> FYI the dictionary does not declare units for the pLowSpeedTime, it should? I've assumed integers = seconds and not milliseconds for param 5. > > > I will get that fixed in the dictionary in the next version, thanks for letting me know. > > tsNetSetTimeouts uses the last two parameters to determine if a connection should be dropped if the ?average? speed of the transfer falls below the values set. > > To use your example, if you want to ensure that the average speed of the transfer does not fall below 96kbps, calculating the average speed over a 3 second period, you would specify a value of 3 for the second last parameter and 96000 (96kbps x 1000 bytes per kB) for the last parameter to tsNetSetTimeouts. > > >> Second (dumb) question: how do we trap for the timeout? we keep checking the tsNetStatusCallback on a loop? and if and when we see timeout we inform the user? But we need a connectionID, so how do we extract a connectionID from put/get/set/ http urls? where we are targeting browser widget on a card. Or a mobilePlayer? > > > If you are using a standard synchronous libUrl request (put URL, post x to URL, etc...) then the request will abort as soon as the connection speed falls below the threshold specified and an error will be stored in the result. > > For asynchronous tsNet requests, the callback message will be sent with an error code indicating the failure. > > Hope that helps, > > Cheers. > > Charles > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Dec 7 04:23:25 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 09:23:25 +0000 Subject: Map Widget Futures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 12:56 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > ...make the map widget a lot more flexible on the > > objective-c side... > > iOS-only? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > We would do whatever is feasible in a cross-platform way. Actually looking at it now, there would be a similar thing on Android: https://developers.google.com/android/reference/com/google/android/gms/maps/model/TileProvider Brahma, it's my understanding that you *are* talking about overlays - or at least using overlays is exactly how such things are achieved with a native map object. You override a method that returns a particular image for the currently visible tiles of the map, so that you don't have to have your whole map image in memory all the time. The default implementation on both platforms retrieves map images from somewhere online Markers are not 'in the message path' quite in the way you are suggesting - at the moment the touch / click is received by the native view, resulting in a callback that is handled in LCB, which posts an appropriate message back to the widget's script object (in this case 'markerClicked pTag' where pTag is the tag defined for that marker). From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Dec 7 04:56:23 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 19:56:23 +1000 Subject: tsNet and proxy servers? Charles? In-Reply-To: <009701d36d1d$0c31b620$24952260$@kestner.de> References: <009701d36d1d$0c31b620$24952260$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <87425B18-244A-4845-B272-E728B252E945@techstrategies.com.au> Hi Tiemo, I am not aware of any issues in the latest version of tsNet with regards to proxy servers, however there were some fixes for proxy NTLM authentication addressed in tsNet 1.2.10. Without knowing the specifics of the networks your application is being used in, I cannot say if that would address the issue your customers are experiencing. I would recommend trying the latest version of LC and seeing if that resolves their issues. You could also try get a copy of the output of the debug output from tsNet (see the tsNetSetDebugCallback command) from your application in one of these environments - it may assist in finding out what the actual issue is. Regards, Charles > On 5 Dec 2017, at 2:29 am, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello, > > I am using very simple "put URL myUrl.php into myResult". Since Version 8 > (and still in 8.1.4) I have again and again institutional customers like > schools or government networks with proxys and firewalls, where the tsNet > doesn't succeed to connect to myServer thru the proxys with different error > messages. My old LC 6.x went thru those proxies without any problems after > having set the proxy data into the httpheaders. I can't find any version # > in the tsNet files, so I can't exactly tell, which version of tsNet I am > using in LC 8.1.4, perhaps it is 1.2.8. > > Since I have a backdoor in my program without connecting to the internet and > thoses admins don't like long testing and debugging procedures I couldn't > dig any deeper to get more details yet and always had to offer a quick > workaround to those customers. And I can't reproduce the issue here. > > 1. Is this a known issue and any solution in progress? (Charles?) > > 2. Is this issue perhaps already solved in 8.1.7 or higher? (Charles?) > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From toolbook at kestner.de Thu Dec 7 05:52:54 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 11:52:54 +0100 Subject: AW: tsNet and proxy servers? Charles? In-Reply-To: <87425B18-244A-4845-B272-E728B252E945@techstrategies.com.au> References: <009701d36d1d$0c31b620$24952260$@kestner.de> <87425B18-244A-4845-B272-E728B252E945@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <001801d36f49$89d798a0$9d86c9e0$@kestner.de> Hi Charles, thanks for your response. Can you tell me, in what LC version tsNet 1.2.10 is being used (I can't go with LC 9 yet) I had a look into the tsNet.dll, but can't find any version # Thanks Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Charles Warwick via use-livecode Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 10:56 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Charles Warwick Betreff: Re: tsNet and proxy servers? Charles? Hi Tiemo, I am not aware of any issues in the latest version of tsNet with regards to proxy servers, however there were some fixes for proxy NTLM authentication addressed in tsNet 1.2.10. Without knowing the specifics of the networks your application is being used in, I cannot say if that would address the issue your customers are experiencing. I would recommend trying the latest version of LC and seeing if that resolves their issues. You could also try get a copy of the output of the debug output from tsNet (see the tsNetSetDebugCallback command) from your application in one of these environments - it may assist in finding out what the actual issue is. Regards, Charles > On 5 Dec 2017, at 2:29 am, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello, > > I am using very simple "put URL myUrl.php into myResult". Since > Version 8 (and still in 8.1.4) I have again and again institutional > customers like schools or government networks with proxys and > firewalls, where the tsNet doesn't succeed to connect to myServer thru > the proxys with different error messages. My old LC 6.x went thru > those proxies without any problems after having set the proxy data > into the httpheaders. I can't find any version # in the tsNet files, > so I can't exactly tell, which version of tsNet I am using in LC 8.1.4, perhaps it is 1.2.8. > > Since I have a backdoor in my program without connecting to the > internet and thoses admins don't like long testing and debugging > procedures I couldn't dig any deeper to get more details yet and > always had to offer a quick workaround to those customers. And I can't reproduce the issue here. > > 1. Is this a known issue and any solution in progress? (Charles?) > > 2. Is this issue perhaps already solved in 8.1.7 or higher? (Charles?) > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Dec 7 06:04:43 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 21:04:43 +1000 Subject: AW: tsNet and proxy servers? Charles? In-Reply-To: <001801d36f49$89d798a0$9d86c9e0$@kestner.de> References: <009701d36d1d$0c31b620$24952260$@kestner.de> <87425B18-244A-4845-B272-E728B252E945@techstrategies.com.au> <001801d36f49$89d798a0$9d86c9e0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <058A861A-ED3C-42FF-9177-F66C7DE34E79@techstrategies.com.au> Hi Tiemo, I think it is included in LC 8.1.5 - definitely in 8.1.6. You could also use 8.1.7 which includes a newer tsNet version (1.3.2). To check which version you are using, open the message box and type ?put tsNetVersion()? Cheers, Charles > On 7 Dec 2017, at 8:52 pm, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Charles, > thanks for your response. > Can you tell me, in what LC version tsNet 1.2.10 is being used (I can't go > with LC 9 yet) > I had a look into the tsNet.dll, but can't find any version # > > Thanks > Tiemo > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag > von Charles Warwick via use-livecode > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 10:56 > An: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Charles Warwick > Betreff: Re: tsNet and proxy servers? Charles? > > Hi Tiemo, > > I am not aware of any issues in the latest version of tsNet with regards to > proxy servers, however there were some fixes for proxy NTLM authentication > addressed in tsNet 1.2.10. > > Without knowing the specifics of the networks your application is being used > in, I cannot say if that would address the issue your customers are > experiencing. I would recommend trying the latest version of LC and seeing > if that resolves their issues. > > You could also try get a copy of the output of the debug output from tsNet > (see the tsNetSetDebugCallback command) from your application in one of > these environments - it may assist in finding out what the actual issue is. > > Regards, > > Charles > >> On 5 Dec 2017, at 2:29 am, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I am using very simple "put URL myUrl.php into myResult". Since >> Version 8 (and still in 8.1.4) I have again and again institutional >> customers like schools or government networks with proxys and >> firewalls, where the tsNet doesn't succeed to connect to myServer thru >> the proxys with different error messages. My old LC 6.x went thru >> those proxies without any problems after having set the proxy data >> into the httpheaders. I can't find any version # in the tsNet files, >> so I can't exactly tell, which version of tsNet I am using in LC 8.1.4, > perhaps it is 1.2.8. >> >> Since I have a backdoor in my program without connecting to the >> internet and thoses admins don't like long testing and debugging >> procedures I couldn't dig any deeper to get more details yet and >> always had to offer a quick workaround to those customers. And I can't > reproduce the issue here. >> >> 1. Is this a known issue and any solution in progress? (Charles?) >> >> 2. Is this issue perhaps already solved in 8.1.7 or higher? > (Charles?) >> >> Thanks >> >> Tiemo >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bob at bobhall.net Thu Dec 7 06:42:54 2017 From: bob at bobhall.net (Bob Hall) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 06:42:54 -0500 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B03B3E3-5558-4F3F-A915-729511294FBC@bobhall.net> > On Dec 5, 2017, at 1:18 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > I have some tools I developed for server apps, which allow me to develop and test both client and server within the same local LC IDE instance. As you can imagine, this has improved development efficiency by orders of magnitude. > > It's much a much more xTalk-like way of working, and once you use it having to be tied to a server for every little test feels like building a ship in a bottle with tweezers while wearing a blindfold. > > When I started making these tools I was using standalones exclusively for server work, partly because it reflects my habits gained from using LC as a CGI for many years before LC Server existed, and partly because I have no need to co-mingle code in HTML like PHP does, except a few cases where the merge function works quite nicely. Richard, I wanted to reply to your original question. I?m not sure I know exactly what you?re asking. I do have projects that I use the existing LC Server with co-mingling. In my opinion, co-mingle was once in fashion and the norm, then fell out of fashion. But I?ll be honest, it?s making a come back. As you know there is a lot of opinion in this area. There are examples of languages with this pattern you see in PHP/LC which has been pointed out. I?d like to add that newer Javascript frameworks seem to be making a return to co-mingling HTML and the language.Yes, JS is more of a client language. But there are server projects that use this pattern. Look at some of the new ES6/ES7 standard to see the new definitions for this. You see this pattern also with JSX/React. Your LC IDE tools are very intriguing to me. I?ve pretty much tried to stick with MVC type patterns for LC Server projects isolating anything html/lc mixing to the view files in their own view directory structure. In the last couple of months I?ve been ?playing? (really that?s all it?s been) with how to use .livecodescript files instead of .lc files for the guts of LC Server projects. My goal was to be able to use the IDE for creating/debugging server projects including using breakpoints and being able to see the raw output as well as a rendered view. I got far enough to see there?s promise in my method and was able to use the IDE to build a very small server project. Then I got busy at my real work and put this on the back burner :-( Anyways, I do think that mixing LC and HTML is a viable option. Being able to do that in the IDE does I think open the door to more LC Server based projects going out the door. I?m very interested in your tools and suspect there is great value in what you?ve created. Bob Hall From mark at livecode.com Thu Dec 7 06:57:24 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 12:57:24 +0100 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code =?UTF-8?Q?w/HTML=3F?= In-Reply-To: <6142a85a-e252-66be-d818-ac13e2021490@fourthworld.com> References: <6142a85a-e252-66be-d818-ac13e2021490@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <480481d9781ff44d8ec7ae1f610e7248@livecode.com> I must confess I'm slightly puzzled by this thread... If you want to write web-apps like PHP - i.e. intermingling code with HTML output, then use LiveCode Server. If you don't want to do that, then just don't? LiveCode Server supports stacks so you can do: In LC Server, which would give you a very similar situation to just running stack "foo" in a -ui standalone engine but with the added bonus of using the server-specific variants of 'put output' Also the LiveCode Community Standalone engine has been able to take a stack on the commandline for years - on Mac you have to get at the engine from within the bundle (i.e, .../Contents/MacOS/Standalone -ui ) which is irksome, but blame Apple for that (its one of the downsides of folder-type app structures, although a minor one compared to the benefits they bring). If you want commercial features, then yes - you do need to build a standalone which has a bootstrap stack in it - but if we didn't do that then anyone could take the commercial standalone engine and use it without a license so that ain't gonna change. At some point it would be nice to unify the server/non-server engines but that isn't very high on the priority list at the moment (indeed, it sits really quite far down...). Warmest Regards, Mark. On 2017-12-07 01:48, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> On 06/12/2017 19:14, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> There's a difference in terms of the primary execution object, and >>> how that effects the flow of both execution and the workflow. >>> >>> It seems I'm unable to articulate it clearly enough, but no worries. >>> The bottom line is that LC Server scripts are incompatible with LC >>> Script on the desktop, and when used with wrapped HTML there's no >>> need for me to generalize my tools because they can't be used in that >>> context. >>> >> I'm still unclear on what does (can?) and what doesn't (can't) be done >> with LC Server scripts on the desktop. >> >> If I don't use mingled/wrapped HTML (which I certainly don't, afaik) - >> could I use your tools for my LC Server scripts (nb - they do use >> 'include's). >> >> In fact, to be even more specific - assuming "my" scripts are actually >> revIgniter with a controller or two added by me, would it be possible >> to use the tools ? > > By what means would you execute those with LC Script on the desktop? > > A few examples of incompatibilities between LC Script on the desktop > and LC Server (designated by letter in case anyone wants to refer to > any of these): > > ---------------------------------------------- > EXAMPLE A > > This: > > > > ...runs great when you pass a file with that to LC Server. LC Script > for the desktop won't know what do to with it. > > You could run that as data through the merge function and it would > work well, but that's a different execution sequence than passing a > file directly to an engine. > > ---------------------------------------------- > EXAMPLE B > > The implicit merge LC Server uses is more complete than the > explicitly-called merge function. For example, the merge function > doesn't handle conditionals cross non-code parts, e.g.: > > >

Some data that happens to be HTML

> >

Some other data that happens to be HTML

> > > That'll work in LC Server, but AFAIK is incompatible with LC Script on > the desktop. > > ---------------------------------------------- > EXAMPLE C > > For the first dozen or so years of the desktop engine, you could pass > it a text file with something like this in it: > > on startup > put DoSomethingWith($REMOTE_ADDR) into tReply > put "HTTP/1.x 200 OK" &cr& \ > Content-Length: "& len(tReply) &crlf&crlf& tReply > end startup > > With the introduction of LC Server the ability of the desktop file to > handle plain text files containing code disappeared. In its place > only LC Server could handle those, and only when wrapped within the > "" tags. > > ---------------------------------------------- > EXAMPLE D > > Environment variables in the original desktop engine were handled > directly as defined by Apache. In LC Server they are copied into vars > that are similar but not the same, e.g. the env var: > > $REMOTE_ADDR > > ...is available in LC Server as: > > $_SERVER["REMOTE_ADDR"] > > ---------------------------------------------- > EXAMPLE E > > A few years ago on of the team members recognized that it would be > useful to be able to run simple text files containing scripts only > with a bare engine. Since LC Server is the only bare engine now > executable by itself without having to be made into a standalone, and > perhaps unaware of the long history of having been able to do this > before, it was added but in an odd way, without any handler > declaration, just raw statements, e.g.: > > get 1+1 > add 5 to it > put SomeFunction(it) into tResult > > function SomeFunction p1 > return p1+100 > end SomeFunction > > So code outside of a handler is a sort of implied handler, but to > distinguish that code from anything in an actual handler the other > handlers look like handlers. > > This is unlike anything in any xTalk, and breaks the otherwise > beautifully learnable consistency of "code lives in handlers". > > ---------------------------------------------- > EXAMPLE F > > Even more recently it was recognized that script-only stacks can be > useful, so now you can have something almost like the original text > files we used to use, but with the addition of one line at the top > specifying that it's a "stack": > > stack "Some Stack Name" > > on startup > DoSomething > end startup > > AFAIK this is not compatible with LC Server, at least not in terms of > expecting the startup handler to fire if you pass that text file to > it. I don't know if it'll choke on the "stack" declaration, but my > understanding is that only code outside of any handler is used in the > role of a startup handler. > > You can, however, bring it into use as a library, provided you have > some other execution object (an HTML file) use "start using". > > ---------------------------------------------- > EXAMPLE G > > With the LC Script desktop engine, "put" commands output to stdout at > the time they're called. With LC Server it appears "put"s are > buffered and output as a single stream when processing of the page > that has been completed. > > ---------------------------------------------- > > There may be other differences; these are just the ones off the top of > my head. > > Before LC Server there was one engine and it worked according to one > set of rules: > > - Execution began with a startup handler, which could be in either > a text file or a script. > > - If you wanted to mix HTML with LC Script, you could read those pages > in an run their contents through the merge function. > > > When LC Server was introduced it follows a more PHP-flavored way of > working: > > - Execution begins in an HTML page, in which LC Script is embedded. > > - A rough equivalent of merge is automatically applied to that page > automatically, but using a form more complete than the merge function > available to the desktop engine. > > > Having enjoyed many years of CGI development with the desktop engine > before LC Server came along, I was initially excited by the prospect > of a server-optimized engine. And indeed it handles a few things > nicely that we used to use a bit of custom code for (parsing POST, > etc.). > > But in practice I found that those conveniences were more than offset > by not being able to run or debug code within the IDE. > > So I returned to using the desktop engine, in the form of a > standalone. Stylistically it's a bit different from working with LC > Server, but very much akin to what we used to do before LC Server. > > But my interest isn't about maintaining old workflows. It's about > being able to write, run, and debug efficiently. > > I can honestly say that much of the work I've been doing would have > been far more expensive to produce if I'd been limited to having to > use LC Server. > > Imaging baking a pie. Then imagine baking a pie in a bottle. ;) -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu Dec 7 07:34:06 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 13:34:06 +0100 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code =?UTF-8?Q?w/HTML=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44c606c3936b85d525b7547a44012a34@livecode.com> Apologies - I missed the top post here for some reason :) On 2017-12-05 19:18, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > I have some tools I developed for server apps, which allow me to > develop and test both client and server within the same local LC IDE > instance. As you can imagine, this has improved development efficiency > by orders of magnitude. Okay so you want to be able to emulate server systems *inside* the IDE - seems reasonable, and useful. > Would it be reasonable/affordable to add some means of enhancing > desktop LC so that it can at least parse and attempt to execute LC > scripts embedded in HTML? I can emulate environment variables and the > like, but the incompatibility between LC and .lc has been a real > development bottleneck. That is slightly tricky. LC Server is essentially a much more traditional 'language interpreter' - indeed it can be seen as providing a REPL at top-level. The commands and declarations in the LC server scripts are basically executed line by line (although a whole script is parsed first - whether it be the initial script, or included script). Any declarations are added to 'global scope', and commands are executed in that 'global scope'. As soon as you call a handler in a stack, it is the same as non-server engines though. More specifically, global scope is actually implemented as a (root) stack script - that stack sits between all other stacks and all external/library/backscript type things in the message path. (In particular variables created at that scope are not global unless you mark them as such - they are script local to the root stack. Internally when it passes an lc server script, the bits outside of code markup () get turned into 'echo' commands (basically put) with the output string being the block of text, The placement of the root stack in LC server poses a difficulty for emulating in the IDE - as you'd want it to sit behind all stacks which make up the server environment you are emulating, but above other things in the IDE. This isn't currently possible (you can kind of view stacks which are loaded on server as being substacks of that root stack - but substacks are only one-level deep, so its only an analog and not a true reflection). Also, the server-specific syntax isn't present in the IDE engine which also poses a difficulty. It might be possible to emulate the server environment by parsing the LC server scripts in LCS in the IDE and fettling with them appropriately to make up for the differences, but that isn't going to be the easiest thing to do. For a long time the notion of 'project' has been floating around - i.e. a separate scope inside the engine in which applications run. The IDE would be a project, with the applications being edited in their own projects. This is actually largely equivalent to having the IDE run in one process, and spinning up standalones for each application being edited which it mutates via IPC. Indeed, the latter is actually a better design for robustness - if one application crashes, it wouldn't bring down the IDE (something which becomes much more important when you start playing with FFI - C and Obj-C are not safe-friendly languages). That model would also work for running server apps live like server apps run - you'd spin up a server engine instead of a standalone engine. In any case, I think I see what you would like to do - however, I'm not sure I can offer much in the way of suggestions as to how to do it right now :( Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. If you restrict what can be done in the LC server scripts in your emulated environment then it becomes easier - but whether that is useful or not depends on what the tooling you have does, and how you would like it to be able to interoperate with server. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Dec 7 08:52:49 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 06:52:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: sorting with number late in name In-Reply-To: <3220730B-1B52-4642-8FA0-39D3CBCF30BF@me.com> References: <6E67C53F-0000-40DB-9A75-B85A624D8409@major-k.de> <3220730B-1B52-4642-8FA0-39D3CBCF30BF@me.com> Message-ID: <1512654769524-0.post@n4.nabble.com> "...Ascending is implied when you sort numeric. " "Ascending" is the default regardless of the sortKey. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Dec 7 11:25:44 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 08:25:44 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: <8B03B3E3-5558-4F3F-A915-729511294FBC@bobhall.net> References: <8B03B3E3-5558-4F3F-A915-729511294FBC@bobhall.net> Message-ID: Bob Hall wrote: > I?m very interested in your tools and suspect there is great value in > what you?ve created. I appreciate the interest, but it doesn't seem using these tools would be possible for most folks. Being able to run client and server code in the IDE would require using methods that are compatible with LC Script on the desktop. Since we have no way of parsing/executing LC Server code in the desktop, and too many people rely on the code-embedded-in-HTML way, my tools are of no use to them. For the first dozen years of this engine, CGIs used the same engine as everything else. Since LC Server premiered, most devs now have a workflow that is incompatible with the desktop engine. I've been using standalones for CGIs for many years, and while I know a few others who do this, there aren't many. I recently came across a project which uses LC Server but only to launch script libraries, so effectively it's 99% compatible with LC Script, using only a couple lines of LC Server to launch the libraries. This got me wondering how many others do things like that, as opposed to relying on features specific to LC Server throughout their app which have no means of executing in the IDE. At this point, it seems most people are using LC Server in ways that are not compatible with the desktop engine. I have nothing that can help with that. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Dec 7 13:52:29 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 10:52:29 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: <44c606c3936b85d525b7547a44012a34@livecode.com> References: <44c606c3936b85d525b7547a44012a34@livecode.com> Message-ID: Thanks for chiming in, Mark. The background your provide is always helpful. Mark Waddingham wrote: > Also, the server-specific syntax isn't present in the IDE engine which > also poses a difficulty. Would it be possible/practical to extend the merge function to at least allow things like control structures with non-LC stuff in between them? E.g., from my earlier post: EXAMPLE B The implicit merge LC Server uses is more complete than the explicitly-called merge function. For example, the merge function doesn't handle conditionals cross non-code parts, e.g.:

Some data that happens to be HTML

Some other data that happens to be HTML

That'll work in LC Server, but AFAIK is incompatible with LC Script on the desktop. > P.S. If you restrict what can be done in the LC server scripts in your > emulated environment then it becomes easier - but whether that is > useful or not depends on what the tooling you have does, and how you > would like it to be able to interoperate with server. That's essentially the core of this thread, to try to get a feel for how many people work in ways that might lend themselves to that. It seems not many. No worries for me, as I use standalones for CGI work. I was just feeling a bit selfish keeping this streamlined workflow to myself, but given the engine differences and the embracing of LC Server's way of doing things among those who use it, it seems very few if any other folks would fine a standalone-centric way of doing CGIs worth adopting. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From brahma at hindu.org Thu Dec 7 14:51:00 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 19:51:00 +0000 Subject: Map Widget Futures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Ali I'm clearly "out of my depth" here? after looking at the Google Maps model. looking at: com.google.android.gms.maps.model I think see why you are talking about overlays, as these comprise "model classes" GroundOverlay A ground overlay is an image that is fixed to a map. GroundOverlayOptions Defines options for a ground overlay. So it does not seem like it is feasible for us to simply "drop in" a large vector diagram/map/illustration? unless perhaps there was some third party which could do, as you say, insert this as an overlay into map object, so that, instead of UK, we would have "Middle Earth" Something to think about: if you get this far with the tech, pushing it just enough to allow a custom environment (assuming it meets some standards obviously) would be interesting BR On 12/6/17, 11:23 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ali Lloyd via use-livecode" wrote: Brahma, it's my understanding that you *are* talking about overlays - or at least using overlays is exactly how such things are achieved with a native map object. You override a method that returns a particular image for the currently visible tiles of the map, so that you don't have to have your whole map image in memory all the time. The default implementation on both platforms retrieves map images from somewhere online From brahma at hindu.org Thu Dec 7 15:41:32 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 20:41:32 +0000 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <824A524B-9C45-4FB7-AB6B-F824344FD141@hindu.org> Replying to your original post/surveyr. Not exactly sure what you are looking for? and this is just story telling that may not be directly relevant but perhaps helpful to lurkers so here goes at Himalayan academy.com We use RevIgniter for everything on our site except the blog? public_html/blog # contains wordpress, as we did not see a reason to reinvent that wheel. Matching the theme on WordPress to the theme in Revigniter is as "easy as pie" and I can even mix in some LC results into the WP Blog. Simon in South Africa helps us there.. a WP wizard and also familiar with LC We use XOOPS for the Hinduism today web site. That was the first CMS we used even before RevIgniter. Certainly a mix of PHP and html. It was a good decision then (around 2000 or so?) XOOPs has been around a long time. And it has a very high value in terms of ease of use, strong community and we have, for support, one of the top XOOPS community leaders actually working for us on the site, moving up now to php 7.2 and the latest XOOPS version on cloned instance? should go live very soon. We have desktop client built in LC that pushes content to XOOPS. the magazine is a "no brainer" many issues, organized By year, quarter, month, articles, archives? a few ancillary info pages? no social other than article comments by registered users, so the customization requirements are very low. The new mobile version will be much much bigger in terms of users and that driven by HTML 5 from BlueToad. For our "saivasiddhanta.org" (in house for registered members/families) site we use what used to be OC Portal.. now Composer, which I switched to , after a 1.5 year long debacle here with Drupal that finally killed the site we were trying to build/run. I switched to OC Portal because, a) the inhouse man running the site was gaining enough html skills? and b) OC portal already came with everything he wanted? and c) the UK team behind it was stellar and avoided the "3rd party module hell" that we landed in and drown the project in before with Drupal. FWIW Drupal is not free! horror story, no in-house expertise, smart but "secretary" level user, had to hire drupal support, 3rd party module dependencies, developers disappear, core engine transitions to new versions, modules incompatible. Drupal support company bids astronomical $'s to get a module working the latest version of Drupal?before you know it your annual maintenance $ fee start climbing into numbers we can't possibly sustain. we finally had to exit Drupal. I highly recommend Composer if you do want a CMS that uses PHP, where you need a complete suite to support a social environment. And Chris's support model is the most reasonably priced tier of any software company we ever dealt with. And because all the code is under one roof, he can pretty much get anything you need done. Customizations (as has been noted) are where you hit the wall. With OC Portal/Composer, it already has such robust tools for social that it would be insane to rebuild all those from ground zero. But theming it is challenging? but more about design expertise really, than the CMS tool box itself. Still as noted by someone else here.. you hit walls on customization? himalayanacademy.com, the level of customization we wanted, and the fact that we don't do social at all there? we went with LC/RevIgniter, there are no walls there maybe little mountains to climb where it might be easier with new tools? but there is nothing you cannot do. But still I'm not seeing "time to completion" improved by new tools sets over what we have and can do for implementation of any vision, using LC/MySql Presumably RevIgniter qualifies for your "mx and match" html + LC How many of you using LC Server rely on its PHP-like model that encourages mixing HTML with LC code? Or maybe the better question might be: How many of you have server systems that already separate HTML from server code like most non-PHP solutions do, or could affordably transition to that model if it could simplify your development workflow significantly? From brahma at hindu.org Thu Dec 7 15:44:14 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 20:44:14 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> Thanks Charles?we have enough to go on now. well, almost if I read you right "load" is not handled by TSNet (since that is libURL's own asynchronous operation?) www.himalayanacademy.com Get the SivaSiva App today (for iPhone and iPad) https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sivasiva/id1271260502?mt=8 On 12/6/17, 10:43 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick via use-livecode" wrote: Sorry, divide my figures for the last parameter to tsNetSetTimeouts by 8, it has been a long day From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu Dec 7 16:38:11 2017 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 21:38:11 +0000 Subject: Printing HTML Text Message-ID: <83FDDE04-673A-4DF1-9684-42002ABA2C26@clearvisiontech.com> Hello! I have some formatted text in a field. If I print it on a Mac, it?s perfect. If I print it on a windows computer (Win 7 or 10), I get VERY strange results. I have tried multiple computers with multiple printers. All with the same results. I get these large black bars. And on some printers half the entire page is black! Any thoughts or experiences with this? This is the HTMLText I am trying to print.

Student: John D. Doe

Gradebook Data as of: Thursday, December 7, 2017 - 1:09 PM

Teacher: Mr. Green

Subject: Writing

Date Term Entry Topic Grade

9/5/2017 1 EXTRA Test 3 / 52

Total: N/A

Subject: Reading

Date Term Entry Topic Grade

9/27/2017 1 Test44 Test 18 / 19

Total: 95%

I have the stack set to the standard letter paper size (612x792). The field has magins of 36, and is set to the same rect as the stack Then I do this: set the printMargins to 0,0,0,0 print this card I?ve also tried this with the exact same results: revPrintField the name of field "theField" Anyone with some thoughts? Thank you in advance, -Dan From klaus at major-k.de Thu Dec 7 16:45:32 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 22:45:32 +0100 Subject: Printing HTML Text In-Reply-To: <83FDDE04-673A-4DF1-9684-42002ABA2C26@clearvisiontech.com> References: <83FDDE04-673A-4DF1-9684-42002ABA2C26@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <9E4F1ADA-B644-4094-8B98-38E2313ED07C@major-k.de> Hi Dan, > Am 07.12.2017 um 22:38 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode : > > Hello! > > I have some formatted text in a field. If I print it on a Mac, it?s perfect. If I print it on a windows computer (Win 7 or 10), I get VERY strange results. I have tried multiple computers with multiple printers. All with the same results. I get these large black bars. And on some printers half the entire page is black! Any thoughts or experiences with this? > ... > Anyone with some thoughts? > > Thank you in advance, > -Dan did you: ... set the formatForPrinting of stack "xyz" to TRUE ## where "xyz" is of course the stack with the card you want to print ... before printing? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Dec 7 16:52:41 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 07:52:41 +1000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> Message-ID: <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> Sorry for the confusion, tsNet does handle the ?load? function, effectively using its own asynchronous functions to replicate standard libUrl behaviour. > On 8 Dec 2017, at 6:44 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks Charles?we have enough to go on now. > > well, almost > > if I read you right "load" is not handled by TSNet (since that is libURL's own asynchronous operation?) > > > > > www.himalayanacademy.com Get the SivaSiva App today (for iPhone and iPad) > https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sivasiva/id1271260502?mt=8 > > > > > On 12/6/17, 10:43 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick via use-livecode" wrote: > > Sorry, divide my figures for the last parameter to tsNetSetTimeouts by 8, it has been a long day > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu Dec 7 17:20:45 2017 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 22:20:45 +0000 Subject: Printing HTML Text In-Reply-To: <<9E4F1ADA-B644-4094-8B98-38E2313ED07C@major-k.de>> Message-ID: <8C5AF1FC-2F28-44D0-ACB2-DB550804B41F@clearvisiontech.com> Klaus, No, I didn?t try that! But, I have now and it didn?t resolve the problem. Exact same result. -Dan ________________________________ Hi Dan, > Am 07.12.2017 um 22:38 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode >: > > Hello! > > I have some formatted text in a field. If I print it on a Mac, it?s perfect. If I print it on a windows computer (Win 7 or 10), I get VERY strange results. I have tried multiple computers with multiple printers. All with the same results. I get these large black bars. And on some printers half the entire page is black! Any thoughts or experiences with this? > ... > Anyone with some thoughts? > > Thank you in advance, > -Dan did you: ... set the formatForPrinting of stack "xyz" to TRUE ## where "xyz" is of course the stack with the card you want to print ... before printing? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Dec 7 17:28:32 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 14:28:32 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: <824A524B-9C45-4FB7-AB6B-F824344FD141@hindu.org> References: <824A524B-9C45-4FB7-AB6B-F824344FD141@hindu.org> Message-ID: <8a8786af-e821-6fe9-b37b-ec333642aac4@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > FWIW Drupal is not free! Drupal is absolutely free: https://www.drupal.org/about/licensing > horror story, no in-house expertise, smart but "secretary" level user, > had to hire drupal support, 3rd party module dependencies, developers > disappear, core engine transitions to new versions, modules > incompatible. Drupal support company bids astronomical $'s to get a > module working the latest version of Drupal?before you know it your > annual maintenance $ fee start climbing into numbers we can't possibly > sustain. we finally had to exit Drupal. Don't use what you don't need. But don't call free software "not free!" when it in fact is. They're among the strongest GPL advocates in the CMS world, and beyond "free as in freedom" Drupal is available at no cost. As with Wordpress, Joomla, MySQL, LiveCode Community Edition, or any other free software, you can choose to hire developers and you can choose to pay for premium add-ons. Those are your choices, not Drupal's. WordPress is an excellent choice when you're making fairly common types of sites, brochureware, blogs, etc. You can extend it beyond that, but at a certain point you're writing custom code. Drupal's building blocks approach means a greater distance before you're writing custom code, and working with a leaner core when you are. Drupal tends to be popular among major universities, government agencies, and large organizations with deeper needs than most. Developers expert in Drupal tend to also have a depth of experience in managing larger-scope projects with more complex requirements. It's not surprising to find the average Drupal consulting rate reflects that depth. But if your site doesn't need to take advantage of the things Drupal does especially well I wouldn't recommend it, any more than I'd recommend using LiveCode for a custom app when a spreadsheet will do. My advice for most people is: choose WordPress unless you have a specific reason not to. And if you have a specific reason not to, consider Drupal among your options. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Dec 7 18:55:32 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 18:55:32 -0500 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> Ok, I just got async tsNet working in IDE and Android(Testing iOS later). I works great! Hat tip to all the contributors. One question and one Observation: 1) How do you query the current tsNet timeout settings? I have quite a few places where I save the socketTimeoutInterval, set it to a new value, do something and then set it back to the saved timeout. I don't see a way to query this in the dictionary. 2) I seems the you don't need to do a "tsNetInit" in the IDE. In the IDE one gets "tsneterr: Already initialized". On Android this error does not occur. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Charles Warwick via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 4:53 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Charles Warwick Subject: Re: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval Sorry for the confusion, tsNet does handle the ?load? function, effectively using its own asynchronous functions to replicate standard libUrl behaviour. > On 8 Dec 2017, at 6:44 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks Charles?we have enough to go on now. > > well, almost > > if I read you right "load" is not handled by TSNet (since that is libURL's own asynchronous operation?) > > > > > www.himalayanacademy.com Get the SivaSiva App today (for iPhone and iPad) > https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sivasiva/id1271260502?mt=8 > > > > > On 12/6/17, 10:43 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick via use-livecode" wrote: > > Sorry, divide my figures for the last parameter to tsNetSetTimeouts by 8, it has been a long day > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From cszasz at mac.com Thu Dec 7 18:56:49 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 16:56:49 -0700 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: I have a table made up of boxes that has test names and their scores. I want the user to be able to copy the table with the test names and scores to the clipboard. Then the user can paste the table into a word processing document. Can this be done using LC 6.9? I have tried grouping then and taking a screenshot but I want better quality than a screenshot. Sent from my iPad From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Dec 7 22:46:10 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 20:46:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1512704770635-0.post@n4.nabble.com> A table made up of boxes? Are thee boxes individual fields? Or are they the "cells" that comprise table fields or dataGrids? In either case, or in any case at all, one can place the data in those boxes onto the clipboard by setting the clipbardData to the text of those, er, boxes. This either all at once in one line, if a table field or DG, or in a handful of lines under script control if disparate containers. But what do you have going here? Craig Newman -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From cszasz at mac.com Thu Dec 7 23:09:38 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 21:09:38 -0700 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: <59DBF48A-C981-474B-9AA9-273AA8860CC5@mac.com> Thanks for responding to my LC problem. The fields have their showBorder set to true. There are 14 test name fields and 14 score fields. The fields are coded to be visible when they have content. I am not using a dataGrid. How do code to these many fields to the clipboard? Sent from my iPad From charles at techstrategies.com.au Fri Dec 8 04:59:59 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 19:59:59 +1000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Ralph, There currently isn?t any ability to query the existing timeout values, though the default values are listed in the dictionary. I will look to add that ability in an upcoming release. If the Internet library is included in your application, it will automatically call tsNetInit for you on startup (which is what happens in the IDE) as it uses tsNet if it is available (and not disabled). If your application does not include the Internet library, but does include tsNet, you will need to call tsNetInit. Regards, Charles > On 8 Dec 2017, at 9:55 am, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Ok, I just got async tsNet working in IDE and Android(Testing iOS later). I works great! Hat tip to all the contributors. One question and one Observation: > 1) How do you query the current tsNet timeout settings? I have quite a few places where I save the socketTimeoutInterval, set it to a new value, do something and then set it back to the saved timeout. I don't see a way to query this in the dictionary. > 2) I seems the you don't need to do a "tsNetInit" in the IDE. In the IDE one gets "tsneterr: Already initialized". On Android this error does not occur. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Charles Warwick via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 4:53 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Charles Warwick > Subject: Re: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval > > Sorry for the confusion, tsNet does handle the ?load? function, effectively using its own asynchronous functions to replicate standard libUrl behaviour. > >> On 8 Dec 2017, at 6:44 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks Charles?we have enough to go on now. >> >> well, almost >> >> if I read you right "load" is not handled by TSNet (since that is libURL's own asynchronous operation?) >> >> >> >> >> www.himalayanacademy.com Get the SivaSiva App today (for iPhone and iPad) >> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sivasiva/id1271260502?mt=8 >> >> >> >> >> On 12/6/17, 10:43 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick via use-livecode" wrote: >> >> Sorry, divide my figures for the last parameter to tsNetSetTimeouts by 8, it has been a long day >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Fri Dec 8 06:46:54 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 12:46:54 +0100 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: There is no way to do that with the *LC 6* clipboard. But, assuming you are on Mac, you could ... ... (1) 'code' the fields into a html table (no need to display that in LC). This is not too hard when using merge. ... (2) Then write that to a temporary html file put myHTMLCode into url("file:///Users/admin/Desktop/tmp.html") ... (3) Then get shell("textutil -convert doc /Users/admin/Desktop/tmp.html). This generates a correct Word-file tmp.doc in the same folder. This file can be read in by Word or Pages or even TextEdit. (1)-(3) could go into one 'export to doc' script = one click. [TextEdit can also open directly the HTML file and then you could save as word document (use cmd+opt+shift S). With the same result, TextEdit uses internally textutil for that.] From hello at simonsmith.co Fri Dec 8 06:54:58 2017 From: hello at simonsmith.co (Simon Smith) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:54:58 +0200 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: <8B03B3E3-5558-4F3F-A915-729511294FBC@bobhall.net> Message-ID: Despite my earlier comments - it is still something that I would be interested in. While my preferences has always been to mix html / code together - if there is a better way to do things, then I would definitely be interested in finding out / learning more. Carpe diem *Simon Smith* m. +27 83 306 7862 On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Bob Hall wrote: > > > I?m very interested in your tools and suspect there is great value in > > what you?ve created. > > I appreciate the interest, but it doesn't seem using these tools would be > possible for most folks. > > Being able to run client and server code in the IDE would require using > methods that are compatible with LC Script on the desktop. Since we have > no way of parsing/executing LC Server code in the desktop, and too many > people rely on the code-embedded-in-HTML way, my tools are of no use to > them. > > For the first dozen years of this engine, CGIs used the same engine as > everything else. Since LC Server premiered, most devs now have a workflow > that is incompatible with the desktop engine. > > I've been using standalones for CGIs for many years, and while I know a > few others who do this, there aren't many. > > I recently came across a project which uses LC Server but only to launch > script libraries, so effectively it's 99% compatible with LC Script, using > only a couple lines of LC Server to launch the libraries. This got me > wondering how many others do things like that, as opposed to relying on > features specific to LC Server throughout their app which have no means of > executing in the IDE. > > At this point, it seems most people are using LC Server in ways that are > not compatible with the desktop engine. I have nothing that can help with > that. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 8 09:10:52 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 07:10:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1512742252107-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Easy, if I understand what you are asking. So do you have pairs of fields, each pair a "name" and a "score"? Something like: name1, score1 name2, score2 etc. ?? Are these pairs of fields associated with each other in the way I assumed, that is, by their names, or in some other way? In any case, they have to be associated in some way or another, and you would write a repeat loop that examines each field pair, and collect their contents in a variable, with the accumulated data delimited in some manner. Then set the clipBoardData to that variable. If you explain just a little more what you actually have built, I can write an example handler to do what you want. I think. Whatever comes out of this, the version of LC is not an issue. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 8 09:17:10 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 07:17:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: <1512742252107-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1512742252107-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1512742630325-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Ah. Hmmm. Do i understand you want to take a "picture" of your existing field array, and place that in the clipboard? -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 8 09:50:05 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 07:50:05 -0700 (MST) Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: <1512742630325-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1512742252107-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1512742630325-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1512744605686-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Does the "export snapshot" command do what you want? That is an old gadget. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Dec 8 09:52:36 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 09:52:36 -0500 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> Message-ID: <002301d37034$327d5040$9777f0c0$@net> Charles, Thanks... FYI Async tsNet in the iOS version just worked(like magic). Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Charles Warwick via use-livecode Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 5:00 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Charles Warwick Subject: Re: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval Hi Ralph, There currently isn?t any ability to query the existing timeout values, though the default values are listed in the dictionary. I will look to add that ability in an upcoming release. If the Internet library is included in your application, it will automatically call tsNetInit for you on startup (which is what happens in the IDE) as it uses tsNet if it is available (and not disabled). If your application does not include the Internet library, but does include tsNet, you will need to call tsNetInit. Regards, Charles > On 8 Dec 2017, at 9:55 am, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Ok, I just got async tsNet working in IDE and Android(Testing iOS later). I works great! Hat tip to all the contributors. One question and one Observation: > 1) How do you query the current tsNet timeout settings? I have quite a few places where I save the socketTimeoutInterval, set it to a new value, do something and then set it back to the saved timeout. I don't see a way to query this in the dictionary. > 2) I seems the you don't need to do a "tsNetInit" in the IDE. In the IDE one gets "tsneterr: Already initialized". On Android this error does not occur. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Charles Warwick via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 4:53 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Charles Warwick > Subject: Re: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval > > Sorry for the confusion, tsNet does handle the ?load? function, effectively using its own asynchronous functions to replicate standard libUrl behaviour. > >> On 8 Dec 2017, at 6:44 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks Charles?we have enough to go on now. >> >> well, almost >> >> if I read you right "load" is not handled by TSNet (since that is libURL's own asynchronous operation?) >> >> >> >> >> www.himalayanacademy.com Get the SivaSiva App today (for iPhone and iPad) >> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sivasiva/id1271260502?mt=8 >> >> >> >> >> On 12/6/17, 10:43 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick via use-livecode" wrote: >> >> Sorry, divide my figures for the last parameter to tsNetSetTimeouts by 8, it has been a long day >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From cszasz at mac.com Fri Dec 8 09:51:41 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 07:51:41 -0700 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: I have 14 fields for subtest names named test1, test2, test3,..test14 and another 14 fields for scores named score1, score2, score3,..score14. They are all associated with different tests. Some tests will have all 14 subtests and scores while others will have only have one subtest and one score. The test names and scores are all the same length. I greatly appreciate your willingness to help me. I have been dealing with this problem for a month or so. If you need more information, please let me know. Sent from my iPad From cszasz at mac.com Fri Dec 8 09:53:11 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 07:53:11 -0700 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: <73A75865-3D89-4EB0-B6A0-F6BE932A0142@mac.com> Dunbar, I tried using screenshots but they are graphic and lack the quality you would want. Sent from my iPad From cszasz at mac.com Fri Dec 8 09:55:11 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 07:55:11 -0700 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: <8296DD7C-ACDB-493E-9855-21E0E5B9C90B@mac.com> I am only using export snapshot as a ?last resort? due to the quality of the graphic it creates. Sent from my iPad From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 8 09:59:04 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 07:59:04 -0700 (MST) Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: <73A75865-3D89-4EB0-B6A0-F6BE932A0142@mac.com> References: <73A75865-3D89-4EB0-B6A0-F6BE932A0142@mac.com> Message-ID: <1512745144440-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Sorry, I meant "import snapshot". Try this, and read the dictionary to set it up the way you want, likely from a rect. The resulting img control can then be placed into the clipboard. Quality should be pretty good. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From cszasz at mac.com Fri Dec 8 10:02:38 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 08:02:38 -0700 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: Craig, I have tried the method you suggested. It does yield decent results but I was hoping for better quality. This is why I was trying to utilize the clipboard using text directly rather than a graphic. Sent from my iPad From dvglasgow at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 10:09:57 2017 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 15:09:57 +0000 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <749C192C-E48D-4A3E-A1D8-E87AFCC9EF7C@gmail.com> Hello Charles, I very often have to manipulate psychological test and subtest scores in LC that have to be exported in different formats. It is difficult to be sure I understand what you are trying to do, but I will say that I find the following the approach is one that suits me: ? I store item numbers which contribute to sub scale scores in a custom property of a field that contains the sub scale score. Sometimes 2 properties if some items are reverse scored. Very easy then to step through any number of sub scale fields with a generic script which will populate each with the correct result. I like to use custom properties because they are easier to check and change than if they are buried in a script. ? I write several ?harvest' routines to gather the data from scored up test and subtest fields, and store the results as a tab delimited table in an ordinary LC field, in whatever format is required. (by ?format? I mean 1 case per line, or rows and columns for each case, not digital ?formats?) The contents of that field can then be printed, copied to the clipboard or exported as a file. With only 14 fields, it will be very quick once you have gone through the drudgery of writing the ?data harvest? scripts. Am I on the right lines? Best wishes, David Glasgow > On 8 Dec 2017, at 2:51 pm, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > > I have 14 fields for subtest names named test1, test2, test3,..test14 and another 14 fields for scores named score1, score2, score3,..score14. They are all associated with different tests. Some tests will have all 14 subtests and scores while others will have only have one subtest and one score. The test names and scores are all the same length. > > I greatly appreciate your willingness to help me. I have been dealing with this problem for a month or so. If you need more information, please let me know. > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 8 10:10:53 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:10:53 -0700 (MST) Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1512745853227-0.post@n4.nabble.com> "This is why I was trying to utilize the clipboard using text directly rather than a graphic. " Not understanding (again). How would you reproduce the physical fields as any form of text? That is how I started, with the field data, which I see now was not what you wanted. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From cszasz at mac.com Fri Dec 8 10:54:42 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 08:54:42 -0700 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: <0B412EED-F478-428F-8A79-77279411CF17@mac.com> David, I think your programming approach is a good idea and may be the solution to my problem. Do you have a sample stack you could send me to look at? Sent from my iPad From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 8 10:56:03 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 09:56:03 -0600 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16036d6d0c0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Looking at the responses so far, I think the confusion is whether you only want to extract the text from the fields, or whether you want to duplicate the field borders as well in order to reproduce the appearance of a grid with gridlines. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 8, 2017 8:53:35 AM Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > I have 14 fields for subtest names named test1, test2, test3,..test14 and > another 14 fields for scores named score1, score2, score3,..score14. They > are all associated with different tests. Some tests will have all 14 > subtests and scores while others will have only have one subtest and one > score. The test names and scores are all the same length. > > I greatly appreciate your willingness to help me. I have been dealing with > this problem for a month or so. If you need more information, please let > me know. > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From christer at mindcrea.com Fri Dec 8 11:16:17 2017 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?utf-8?Q?Pyyhti=C3=A4_Christer?=) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 18:16:17 +0200 Subject: On-Rev Server & character functions Message-ID: What is the current situation of the LiveCode server version vs V8? For example, using the functions numToCodePoint etc. Christer Pyyhti? christer at mindcrea.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Dec 8 11:17:35 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 11:17:35 -0500 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: <8B03B3E3-5558-4F3F-A915-729511294FBC@bobhall.net> Message-ID: Hi Richard, I think you may have stated your question for us in the wrong way. Instead of asking us is we co-mingle our code with HTML you should have asked us if we had any interest in doing things differently by using LC Script from the desktop to work with web pages. I think we have found ourselves forced into mingling our code with the newer LC Server. That doesn?t mean that we prefer it, or that we wouldn?t be interested in looking at some tools which use a different method with your older CGI method. If you want to share your tools with us I am sure the community would like to take a look at them. Cheers, Rick > I appreciate the interest, but it doesn't seem using these tools would be > possible for most folks. > > Being able to run client and server code in the IDE would require using > methods that are compatible with LC Script on the desktop. Since we have > no way of parsing/executing LC Server code in the desktop, and too many > people rely on the code-embedded-in-HTML way, my tools are of no use to > them. > > For the first dozen years of this engine, CGIs used the same engine as > everything else. Since LC Server premiered, most devs now have a workflow > that is incompatible with the desktop engine. > > I've been using standalones for CGIs for many years, and while I know a > few others who do this, there aren't many. > > I recently came across a project which uses LC Server but only to launch > script libraries, so effectively it's 99% compatible with LC Script, using > only a couple lines of LC Server to launch the libraries. This got me > wondering how many others do things like that, as opposed to relying on > features specific to LC Server throughout their app which have no means of > executing in the IDE. > > At this point, it seems most people are using LC Server in ways that are > not compatible with the desktop engine. I have nothing that can help with > that. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From christer at mindcrea.com Fri Dec 8 11:21:45 2017 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?utf-8?Q?Pyyhti=C3=A4_Christer?=) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 18:21:45 +0200 Subject: On-Rev Server & character functions Message-ID: <20C337BE-A6E8-40B1-BFBD-0D82D9225252@mindcrea.com> It was so easy to figure it out, sorry for asking. But, what is the version of LC in on-rev server? Christer Pyyhti? MindCrea Ltd christer at mindcrea.com From mark at livecode.com Fri Dec 8 12:22:15 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 18:22:15 +0100 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code =?UTF-8?Q?w/HTML=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <8B03B3E3-5558-4F3F-A915-729511294FBC@bobhall.net> Message-ID: <9c82026d4740fe3e8474c02dfde86f79@livecode.com> On 2017-12-08 17:17, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richard, > > I think you may have stated your question for us in the wrong way. > > Instead of asking us is we co-mingle our code with HTML you > should have asked us if we had any interest in doing things > differently by using LC Script from the desktop to work with > web pages. > > I think we have found ourselves forced into mingling our code > with the newer LC Server. That doesn?t mean that we prefer it, > or that we wouldn?t be interested in looking at some tools which > use a different method with your older CGI method. > > If you want to share your tools with us I am sure the community > would like to take a look at them. I was going to point out a similar thing :) It sounds like Richard has built up a useful flow/toolkit for doing LC-based server apps - the fact it doesn't use LC Server is immaterial. After all, its what it enables people to do which is important, not the manner or means of implementation. Okay, so for existing projects which use LC Server there would be a porting cost - but that would be worth it if the benefits outweigh the time taken to port across. However, there are more projects which are to be written in the future than exist now - so for new 'green field' projects, the choice as to underlying technology is still to be made. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Fri Dec 8 12:28:42 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 18:28:42 +0100 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code =?UTF-8?Q?w/HTML=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <44c606c3936b85d525b7547a44012a34@livecode.com> Message-ID: <2405b709f0693a40847e4e6642200c77@livecode.com> On 2017-12-07 19:52, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Would it be possible/practical to extend the merge function to at > least allow things like control structures with non-LC stuff in > between them? > > E.g., from my earlier post: > > EXAMPLE B > > The implicit merge LC Server uses is more complete than the > explicitly-called merge function. For example, the merge function > doesn't handle conditionals cross non-code parts, e.g.: > > >

Some data that happens to be HTML

> >

Some other data that happens to be HTML

> > > That'll work in LC Server, but AFAIK is incompatible with LC Script on > the desktop. Possible - yes. Worthwhile implementing in C++ in the engine - probably not... The reason I say that is because it would be relatively straight-forward (assuming appropriate knowledge) to write an LCS script which transforms a server script into an LC stack which 'does the same thing' and then you have something far more adaptable. A LC Server script is an alternating sequence of code and text blocks. Once you have that alternating sequence, you could replace the text blocks with a call to a handler with a parameter which is a custom prop of the stack containing the text content. Then the code would need to be transformed so that all inline commands where in a single handler, all variable decls at top-level were script locals, and all handler definitions in the code blocks next to the main handler. The only slight tricky bit is the creation of root-scope variables if not using explicitVars. I'd need to give that some thought but doing it with a transformation written in script would mean you could (for the most part) emulate the LC server environment in the IDE - even replacing server specific commands (e.g. put output) with calls to handlers which emulate them. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From cszasz at mac.com Fri Dec 8 13:30:13 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 11:30:13 -0700 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: Hi Jacque, I want to duplicate the borders of the fields in copying the fields to the clipboard. Sent from my iPad From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 8 13:45:11 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 11:45:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1512758711447-0.post@n4.nabble.com> "I want to duplicate the borders of the fields in copying the fields to the clipboard. " Right, so you need an image, not any sort of text wizardry. I did a quick test using the "import snapshot" command, and pasted the result into another app. It seems to have the same resolution as the img in the LC stack. You cannot improve that without a lot of doctoring, of course, because that is the resolution of the source. But not sharp enough? But then the stack itself also is not adequate? In other words, if the native LC rendering is not good enough, then I cannot see that you can use LC in the first place. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From brahma at hindu.org Fri Dec 8 14:20:58 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 19:20:58 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> Message-ID: <85B75E12-6B4F-4461-979F-CFD3A5CA2A37@hindu.org> Awesome Ralph: Looks like we need to crowd fund Charles for documentation (smile) You are about 3 days ahead of me? can you post some code snippets of your methods? On 12/7/17, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" wrote: Ok, I just got async tsNet working in IDE and Android(Testing iOS later). I works great! Hat tip to all the contributors. One question and one Observation: 1) How do you query the current tsNet timeout settings? I have quite a few places where I save the socketTimeoutInterval, set it to a new value, do something and then set it back to the saved timeout. I don't see a way to query this in the dictionary. 2) I seems the you don't need to do a "tsNetInit" in the IDE. In the IDE one gets "tsneterr: Already initialized". On Android this error does not occur. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From brahma at hindu.org Fri Dec 8 14:32:35 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 19:32:35 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <7F64F09A-9204-4661-AC33-94D6F5AEBB52@hindu.org> Charles Warwick wrote: Sorry for the confusion, tsNet does handle the ?load? function, effectively using its own asynchronous functions to replicate standard libUrl behaviour. BR: wow. That's magic! so this means we can just proceed "as usual" with using load [URL] url [with message callbackMessage] AND the URLStatus of url with results as expected: (see below) where the timeout will occur based on tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 3000, 3000 , 3, 3, 12000 ? and TSNet will return URLStatus value as already described in the dictionary just as it always has (see below.) OK, suddenly this becomes easy. But the we still have a "murky outback" in the mobile space: How to mix this into the stew along with dynamic control creation on mobile? And what exactly is happening? where we call something like this: command createMobileAudioPlayer pURL, pPlayerName,tRect if pPlayerName is among the lines of mobileControls() then mobileControlDelete pPlayerName -- init mobileControlCreate "player",pPlayerName put the result into sPlayerId -- adjust location for mobile:--### FIND OUT IF THIS IS NEEDED ON iOS if tRect is empty then put the rect of player pPlayerName into tRect end if if the platform is "android" then -- android player controls appear above the player; adjust -- with controller it's about 4x rect of cd player so align the bottom edges: # this his hard wired to the bottom of the card for now. put (the height of this card) -70 into item 4 of tRect put item 4 of tRect - item 2 of tRect into tHeight subtract tHeight from item 2 of tRect end if mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "visible", true mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "rect", tRect mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "showController", true mobileControlSet pPlayerName, "filename", pURL if pURL begins with "https" then showBusyIndicator true, "Loading audio..." -- add loading indicator until duration is available end if if mobileIdleTimerLocked() is false then mobileLockIdleTimer --jg: disallow screen lock end createMobileAudioPlayer So?in this context, the player is created, and the audio is called and the player starts playing. Is TSNet invoked in the background if we start the player? the dictionary says: URLStatus "Returns the status of uploads and downloads that were started with the load, libURLDownloadToFile, libURLftpUpload, and libURLftpUploadFile commands." 1) what about a URL called by a mobile control? set to a Browser Widget? 2) if we use "load" and cache the URL then set the mobile player to that URL, is it no longer streaming but playing the cached audio.mp3 file? 3) the player has it's own methods: if it's duration property becomes available then we can start playing on playerPropertyAvailable theProperty -- msg sent when enough has content is loaded if theProperty is "duration" then showBusyIndicator false -- Remove the "Loading..." indicator and start playing mobileControlDo pPlayerName, "play" end if end playerPropertyAvailable is TSNet any part of these operations? ------------------- ? queued: on hold until a previous request to the same site is completed ? contacted: the site has been contacted but no data has been sent or received yet ? requested: the URL has been requested ? loading,bytesReceived,bytesTotal: the URL data is being received; items 2 and 3 of the return value provide progress information ? uploading,bytesReceived,bytesTotal: the file is being uploaded to the URL; items 2 and 3 of the return value provide progress information ? cached: the URL is in the cache and the download is complete ? uploaded: the application has finished uploading the file to the URL ? error: an error occurred and the URL was not transferred ? timeout: the application timed out when attempting to transfer the URL ? (empty): the URL was not loaded, or has been unloaded From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 8 14:57:39 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:57:39 -0600 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/8/17 12:30 PM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Jacque, > > I want to duplicate the borders of the fields in copying the fields to the clipboard. In that case, others who have responded are right. You can't put that into the clipboard except as an image. You could instead use the "print card" command to print to a PDF. That will render the text with real fonts that print and scale smoothly, and will also include the field borders. If you don't want to print the entire card, use the parameters that print only within a specified rectangle. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From williamdesmet at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 15:00:37 2017 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 21:00:37 +0100 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 Message-ID: Hi there, I am seeing an error on using MergPop with iOS 11.2 /LC 8.1.8 when saving a PNG with the 'Save Image' button on the popover sheet. It quits the app immediately. 'E-mail, Copy, Print, Save Files App' all work fine. Even Airdrop works fine. I do this: -------- try put specialfolderpath("documents") & "/" & "cars.png" into tPath export snapshot from group "cars" to file tPath as PNG mergPopActivity "",tPath,"","" get the result end try ---------- Anyone else seeing this? Is there something I can change in my script? greetings, William From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 8 15:17:42 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:17:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1512764262991-0.post@n4.nabble.com> But the OP wants everything in the clipboard, so he can paste away. I suppose that the target apps might have a feature to import pdf's as a menu command, but that would require scaling and who knows what else. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From jiml at netrin.com Fri Dec 8 15:46:22 2017 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 12:46:22 -0800 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jacque's suggestion for PDF printing is excellent. That will get you a file. But you mentioned you want this to end up on the clipboard for pasting into other programs. > Dunbarx wrote: > I did a quick test using the "import snapshot" command, and pasted the > result into another app. It seems to have the same resolution as the img in > the LC stack. You cannot improve that without a lot of doctoring, of course, > because that is the resolution of the source. Well, the relatively new ?at size? addition to snapshot might help here. Charles, try something like this: An area of your card holds the fields you want to copy. Put that rect of that area into variable myFieldRects Calculate the width of that rect and place it into variable myRectWidth Calculate the height of that rect and place it into variable myRectHeight Now here is where improving the resolution comes in. By using the ?at size? parameter you can essentially ?enlarge' the image you capture. Just put amount of the enlargement you want into variable multiplier. Let?s say 10 times. So altogether we have: Put "20,100,700,150" into myFieldRects Put 680 into myRectWidth Put 50 into myRectHeight put 10 into multiplier put the windowID of this stack into winID export snapshot from rect(myFieldRects) of window winID at size (myRectWidth * multiplier),(myRectHeight * multiplier) to myimg as JPEG set clipboarddata["image"] to myimg Paste into, say, a Word doc. Now change multiplier to 1 - that will give you an ?unbenlarged? image. Now paste that into the same Word doc and look closely at the difference in resolution. You could try 'as PNG', too. Jim Lambert From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Dec 8 16:05:02 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 16:05:02 -0500 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <85B75E12-6B4F-4461-979F-CFD3A5CA2A37@hindu.org> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> <85B75E12-6B4F-4461-979F-CFD3A5CA2A37@hindu.org> Message-ID: <007001d37068$3a902030$afb06090$@net> BR, I async also works in iOS just fine and dandy. In My app I am getting the background images for cards while the user first logs in. Async allows the images to be downloaded in the background. This allows me to change images without releasing a new app without hanging the app up when I used blocking libURL. The implementation was so easy it was frightening. I also have 6 of these queued up and running at the same time! First is a utility(NetworkType) to check the type of networking and a tsNet initialization handler (EISinitTSnet): -------------------------------------------------------- function GetNetworkType local tLibUrlDriver try put the behavior of stack"revLibUrl"into tLibUrlDriver end try if tLibUrlDriver is empty then return "Sockets" else return "tsNet" end if end GetNetworkType command NetworkType if GetNetworkType() = "Sockets" then answer"tsNet is disabled" else answer "tsNet in use"&cr&"Version==>"& tsNetVersion() end if end NetworkType command EISinitTSnet local tResult try tsNetInit put the result into tResult if tResult is not empty then if tResult = "tsneterr: Already initialised" then else answer tResult end if else tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 5000, 5000, 5000, 5, 10000 end if catch someerror if IsInternalUser(true) then answer TranslateError(someerror) end try end EISinitTSnet ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Get_Path function below is a function returns paths that are transparent between IDE and mobile. (Richard G. I got sucked into the returning the trailing slash before I realized it was not the best way to do it). I hacked out this code so there could be an error but the basic idea is here. I call this first handler(StartBackgroundImageDownload) 12 time quickly and all the downloads work. The app is fully functional while the downloads are in progress. I use the filename as the pID. This makes things easy when the download completes. I have not tested timeouts yet. That's the next step, handling the in/out of network access/slow network speed. Standby.... This is the guts of the asysnc file downloading: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- command StartBackgroundImageDownload pImageName local pHeaders, tStatus put tsNetGetFile(pImageName, Get_Path("Updates")&pImageName, \ "https://xxx.com/someFolder/"& \ urlencode(pImageName), pHeaders, "DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete") into tStatus-- start download if tStatus is not empty then answer tStatus end if end StartBackgroundImageDownload on DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete pID, pResult, pBytes, pCurlCode local tData, tHeaders --answer "File==>"&pID&cr&"Bytes==>"&pBytes&cr&"Result==>"&pResult&cr&"CurlCode==>"&pCurlCode if pCurlCode is not 0 then answer tsNetRetrError(pID) else if pResult = 404 then answer "File'"&&pID&&"not found==>"&pBytes&&"Result==>"&pResult delete file Get_Path("Updates")&pID -- delete file with 404 error in it else --answer "File==>"&pID&cr&"Bytes==>"&pBytes&cr&"Result==>"&pResult&cr&"CurlCode==>"&pCurlCode if pBytes > 2000 then -- GOOD DOWNLOAD rename file (Get_Path("Updates")&pID) to (Get_Path("BackgroundImages")&pID) -- file download complete --answer "File'"&&pID&&"has been downloaded. Result==>"&pResult else answer "File'"&&pID&&"has been downloaded but is too small==>"&pBytes&&"Result==>"&pResult -- this was before I had the 404 check delete file Get_Path("Updates")&pID end if end if end if tsNetCloseConn pID end DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 2:21 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami Subject: Re: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval Awesome Ralph: Looks like we need to crowd fund Charles for documentation (smile) You are about 3 days ahead of me? can you post some code snippets of your methods? On 12/7/17, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" wrote: Ok, I just got async tsNet working in IDE and Android(Testing iOS later). I works great! Hat tip to all the contributors. One question and one Observation: 1) How do you query the current tsNet timeout settings? I have quite a few places where I save the socketTimeoutInterval, set it to a new value, do something and then set it back to the saved timeout. I don't see a way to query this in the dictionary. 2) I seems the you don't need to do a "tsNetInit" in the IDE. In the IDE one gets "tsneterr: Already initialized". On Android this error does not occur. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Fri Dec 8 16:25:02 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 22:25:02 +0100 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: <0F76D27C-281C-4F35-A93F-1DAF99FAF4C5@hyperhh.de> > JLG wrote: > In that case, others who have responded are right. You > can't put that into the clipboard except as an image. The impact is (what I wrote): You can't put that into the **LC 6** - clipboard. Of course we can do that in LC 8 or later by accessing the *raw* clipboard. That is: Put the contents of the grid of simple text fields into a HTML object. Then write clean HTML data with that to the rawClipboardData, go to Pages, OpenOffice, Word or whatever and paste. From paul at livecode.org Fri Dec 8 21:26:24 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 18:26:24 -0800 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> William, Just did a quick test and to make this work I had to go to Standalone Application Settings > General and choose ?Select inclusions for the standalone application?, then under Standalone Application Settings > Inclusions scroll down and make sure ?MergPop? is selected along with any other inclusions necessary. It seems MergPop is not being found when allowing LC to search for the required inclusions. This may be a bug, but I can?t find anything on LCQC for it right now, although I?m sure I remember it being discussed on this list previously (that?s how I knew what the fix was), but I don?t remember the conclusion. FYI, I checked this by adding a catch tError command within the try - end try handler then used answer tError, it told me that LC couldn?t find the handler ?mergPopActivity?, so it confirmed that the library was missing, fixing that made it work. Paul > On 8 Dec 2017, at 12:00, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi there, > > I am seeing an error on using MergPop with iOS 11.2 /LC 8.1.8 when saving a > PNG with the 'Save Image' button on the popover sheet. > It quits the app immediately. > 'E-mail, Copy, Print, Save Files App' all work fine. Even Airdrop works > fine. > > I do this: > -------- > try > put specialfolderpath("documents") & "/" & "cars.png" into tPath > export snapshot from group "cars" to file tPath as PNG > mergPopActivity "",tPath,"","" > get the result > end try > ---------- > > Anyone else seeing this? > Is there something I can change in my script? > > > > greetings, > > William > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 8 21:50:51 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 20:50:51 -0600 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard In-Reply-To: <0F76D27C-281C-4F35-A93F-1DAF99FAF4C5@hyperhh.de> References: <0F76D27C-281C-4F35-A93F-1DAF99FAF4C5@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <160392eb6f8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Actually, you could extract the text and write it into an html table in any version of LC. Then set the clipboardData["html"] to it. It would only paste into apps that accept html of course. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 8, 2017 3:27:10 PM hh via use-livecode wrote: >> JLG wrote: >> In that case, others who have responded are right. You >> can't put that into the clipboard except as an image. > > The impact is (what I wrote): You can't put that into the > **LC 6** - clipboard. > > Of course we can do that in LC 8 or later by accessing the > *raw* clipboard. That is: > Put the contents of the grid of simple text fields into > a HTML
object. Then write clean HTML data with that > to the rawClipboardData, go to Pages, OpenOffice, Word or > whatever and paste. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Fri Dec 8 22:07:48 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 03:07:48 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <007001d37068$3a902030$afb06090$@net> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> <85B75E12-6B4F-4461-979F-CFD3A5CA2A37@hindu.org> <007001d37068$3a902030$afb06090$@net> Message-ID: <00934B6C-B412-40BD-A705-AC1029810BED@hindu.org> Ralph -- I sent this to you off list by mistake copying here FWIW if anyone is lurking. This all looks great and covers "download files" use cases The remaining puzzles are one off url calls from/for mobile controls : 1) remote path to audio.mp3; for player 2) url web calls in browser widget to a) web pages b) youtube (video streaming) and how these play with TSNet, bandwidth dropping below set limits, or dropped connections. As yet mysterious?. " wrote: BR, I async also works in iOS just fine and dandy. In My app I am getting the background images for cards while the user first logs in. Async allows the images to be downloaded in the background. This allows me to change images without releasing a new app without hanging the app up when I used blocking libURL. The implementation was so easy it was frightening. I also have 6 of these queued up and running at the same time! First is a utility(NetworkType) to check the type of networking and a tsNet initialization handler (EISinitTSnet): -------------------------------------------------------- function GetNetworkType local tLibUrlDriver try put the behavior of stack"revLibUrl"into tLibUrlDriver end try if tLibUrlDriver is empty then return "Sockets" else return "tsNet" end if end GetNetworkType command NetworkType if GetNetworkType() = "Sockets" then answer"tsNet is disabled" else answer "tsNet in use"&cr&"Version==>"& tsNetVersion() end if end NetworkType command EISinitTSnet local tResult try tsNetInit put the result into tResult if tResult is not empty then if tResult = "tsneterr: Already initialised" then else answer tResult end if else tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 5000, 5000, 5000, 5, 10000 end if catch someerror if IsInternalUser(true) then answer TranslateError(someerror) end try end EISinitTSnet ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Get_Path function below is a function returns paths that are transparent between IDE and mobile. (Richard G. I got sucked into the returning the trailing slash before I realized it was not the best way to do it). I hacked out this code so there could be an error but the basic idea is here. I call this first handler(StartBackgroundImageDownload) 12 time quickly and all the downloads work. The app is fully functional while the downloads are in progress. I use the filename as the pID. This makes things easy when the download completes. I have not tested timeouts yet. That's the next step, handling the in/out of network access/slow network speed. Standby.... This is the guts of the asysnc file downloading: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- command StartBackgroundImageDownload pImageName local pHeaders, tStatus put tsNetGetFile(pImageName, Get_Path("Updates")&pImageName, \ "https://xxx.com/someFolder/"& \ urlencode(pImageName), pHeaders, "DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete") into tStatus-- start download if tStatus is not empty then answer tStatus end if end StartBackgroundImageDownload on DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete pID, pResult, pBytes, pCurlCode local tData, tHeaders --answer "File==>"&pID&cr&"Bytes==>"&pBytes&cr&"Result==>"&pResult&cr&"CurlCode==>"&pCurlCode if pCurlCode is not 0 then answer tsNetRetrError(pID) else if pResult = 404 then answer "File'"&&pID&&"not found==>"&pBytes&&"Result==>"&pResult delete file Get_Path("Updates")&pID -- delete file with 404 error in it else --answer "File==>"&pID&cr&"Bytes==>"&pBytes&cr&"Result==>"&pResult&cr&"CurlCode==>"&pCurlCode if pBytes > 2000 then -- GOOD DOWNLOAD rename file (Get_Path("Updates")&pID) to (Get_Path("BackgroundImages")&pID) -- file download complete --answer "File'"&&pID&&"has been downloaded. Result==>"&pResult else answer "File'"&&pID&&"has been downloaded but is too small==>"&pBytes&&"Result==>"&pResult -- this was before I had the 404 check delete file Get_Path("Updates")&pID end if end if end if tsNetCloseConn pID end DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 2:21 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami Subject: Re: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval Awesome Ralph: Looks like we need to crowd fund Charles for documentation (smile) You are about 3 days ahead of me? can you post some code snippets of your methods? On 12/7/17, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" wrote: Ok, I just got async tsNet working in IDE and Android(Testing iOS later). I works great! Hat tip to all the contributors. One question and one Observation: 1) How do you query the current tsNet timeout settings? I have quite a few places where I save the socketTimeoutInterval, set it to a new value, do something and then set it back to the saved timeout. I don't see a way to query this in the dictionary. 2) I seems the you don't need to do a "tsNetInit" in the IDE. In the IDE one gets "tsneterr: Already initialized". On Android this error does not occur. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Sat Dec 9 02:11:42 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 08:11:42 +0100 Subject: Copying text in boxes to clipboard Message-ID: > JLG wrote: > Actually, you could extract the text and write it into an html table in any > version of LC. Then set the clipboardData["html"] to it. > > It would only paste into apps that accept html of course. Unfortunately no. The clipboardData["html"] is LC htmltext, which doesn't support
. This is the same with fullClipboardData ["htmltext"] in LC 8 or later. What works with a
object are in LC 8 or later both: the fullClipboardData ["html"] the rawClipboardData ["public.html"] From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 03:33:08 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 10:33:08 +0200 Subject: Goofy font change question Message-ID: <0523e00a-b025-347e-fd50-f87b16d53433@gmail.com> Can anyone tell me why this is not working? on menuPick PHONT switch PHONT set the unicodeText of fld "fff" to PHONT end switch end menuPick on mouseDown get the fontNames sort lines of it put it into btn "OM" set the label of me to "FONTS" end mouseDown Richmond. From mark at livecode.com Sat Dec 9 03:37:23 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 09:37:23 +0100 Subject: Goofy font change question In-Reply-To: <0523e00a-b025-347e-fd50-f87b16d53433@gmail.com> References: <0523e00a-b025-347e-fd50-f87b16d53433@gmail.com> Message-ID: <032b52aaca4b641d1a2c236aaf5acdb9@livecode.com> On 2017-12-09 09:33, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > Can anyone tell me why this is not working? > > on menuPick PHONT > switch PHONT > set the unicodeText of fld "fff" to PHONT > end switch > end menuPick > > on mouseDown > get the fontNames > sort lines of it > put it into btn "OM" > set the label of me to "FONTS" > end mouseDown Without more context its hard to say - but you are using a switch without any cases - which I don't think works. Also, unless PHONT is UTF-16 data, then you should be using text, and not unicodeText. Warmest Regards, Mark. > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From williamdesmet at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 03:39:30 2017 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 09:39:30 +0100 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> Message-ID: <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> Hi Paul, Like I said MergPop works fine in my app except the fact that the app quits after choosing 'Save Image' from the popover sheet. Can you confirm this? It's a brand new iPad (2 days old) with no other apps installed. Greetings, William > Op 9 dec. 2017 om 03:26 heeft Paul Hibbert via use-livecode het volgende geschreven: > > William, > > Just did a quick test and to make this work I had to go to Standalone Application Settings > General and choose ?Select inclusions for the standalone application?, then under Standalone Application Settings > Inclusions scroll down and make sure ?MergPop? is selected along with any other inclusions necessary. > > It seems MergPop is not being found when allowing LC to search for the required inclusions. This may be a bug, but I can?t find anything on LCQC for it right now, although I?m sure I remember it being discussed on this list previously (that?s how I knew what the fix was), but I don?t remember the conclusion. > > FYI, I checked this by adding a catch tError command within the try - end try handler then used answer tError, it told me that LC couldn?t find the handler ?mergPopActivity?, so it confirmed that the library was missing, fixing that made it work. > > Paul > >> On 8 Dec 2017, at 12:00, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi there, >> >> I am seeing an error on using MergPop with iOS 11.2 /LC 8.1.8 when saving a >> PNG with the 'Save Image' button on the popover sheet. >> It quits the app immediately. >> 'E-mail, Copy, Print, Save Files App' all work fine. Even Airdrop works >> fine. >> >> I do this: >> -------- >> try >> put specialfolderpath("documents") & "/" & "cars.png" into tPath >> export snapshot from group "cars" to file tPath as PNG >> mergPopActivity "",tPath,"","" >> get the result >> end try >> ---------- >> >> Anyone else seeing this? >> Is there something I can change in my script? >> >> >> >> greetings, >> >> William >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 04:17:13 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 11:17:13 +0200 Subject: Goofy font change question In-Reply-To: <032b52aaca4b641d1a2c236aaf5acdb9@livecode.com> References: <0523e00a-b025-347e-fd50-f87b16d53433@gmail.com> <032b52aaca4b641d1a2c236aaf5acdb9@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4d7b2f16-ff99-b4d1-c6ee-3e5096e77b67@gmail.com> Sorry: usual nonsense of trying to over-complicate matters; this works superbly; on menuPick PHONT set the textFont of fld "fff" to PHONT end menuPick on mouseDown get the fontNames sort lines of it put it into btn "OM" set the label of me to "FONTS" end mouseDown Oh, and if one does this: set the text of fld "fff" to PHONT one ends up with the fontName in the field. Richmond. On 9/12/17 10:37 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-12-09 09:33, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> Can anyone tell me why this is not working? >> >> on menuPick PHONT >> switch PHONT >> set the unicodeText of fld "fff" to PHONT >> end switch >> end menuPick >> >> on mouseDown >> get the fontNames >> sort lines of it >> put it into btn "OM" >> set the label of me to "FONTS" >> end mouseDown > > Without more context its hard to say - but you are using a switch > without any cases - which I don't think works. > > Also, unless PHONT is UTF-16 data, then you should be using text, and > not unicodeText. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From matsastrom at yahoo.se Sat Dec 9 07:14:26 2017 From: matsastrom at yahoo.se (=?utf-8?Q?Mats_=C3=85str=C3=B6m?=) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 13:14:26 +0100 Subject: mergBLE? Message-ID: <687386B7-95A8-4A65-98BF-F6DEDD33220F@yahoo.se> Hi all, for a client I would like to build an OSX app that would use the phone number of an incoming call on an iPhone to present the documents associated with the client calling. I then need to connect to the iPhone (maybe using mergBLE) and obtain the phone number of an incoming call. Is this at all doable in LiveCode? /Mats From alex at tweedly.net Sat Dec 9 07:40:26 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 12:40:26 +0000 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: <2405b709f0693a40847e4e6642200c77@livecode.com> References: <44c606c3936b85d525b7547a44012a34@livecode.com> <2405b709f0693a40847e4e6642200c77@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5e5e0aea-6662-9336-fdf0-340c0517aa8c@tweedly.net> On 08/12/2017 17:28, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-12-07 19:52, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> Would it be possible/practical to extend the merge function to at >> least allow things like control structures with non-LC stuff in >> between them? > A LC Server script is an alternating sequence of code and text blocks. > Once you have that alternating sequence, you could replace the text > blocks with a call to a handler with a parameter which is a custom > prop of the stack containing the text content. Would it not be easier to transform the text blocks in to a (series of) "put" statement(s) ? Being "put"ted? is exactly what is going to happen to the text in the non-code blocks, so why not just do that. Also, that means that the LC Server script can be turned into a script-only stack - which would feel more natural to me. And,? it would continue to be visible in-line, therefore retaining (more or less) the same self-documenting characteristic as the original script. It's much more legible (to me) to replace ?? ?????

Some data that happens to be HTML

?? ?????

Some other data that happens to be HTML

?? with ??? if a = b then ???? put " ????

Some data that happens to be HTML

" & CR ?? else ? ?? put " ????

Some other data that happens to be HTML

& CR ?? end if rather than ? if a = b then ? ?? someHandler myPropertyName1 ?? else ???? someHandler myPropertyName2 ?? end if OK, OK, you need to handle quotes within the HTML - but it should be easy enough. -- Alex. From mark at livecode.com Sat Dec 9 08:29:14 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 14:29:14 +0100 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code =?UTF-8?Q?w/HTML=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5e5e0aea-6662-9336-fdf0-340c0517aa8c@tweedly.net> References: <44c606c3936b85d525b7547a44012a34@livecode.com> <2405b709f0693a40847e4e6642200c77@livecode.com> <5e5e0aea-6662-9336-fdf0-340c0517aa8c@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On 2017-12-09 13:40, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > Would it not be easier to transform the text blocks in to a (series > of) "put" statement(s) ? > Being "put"ted? is exactly what is going to happen to the text in the > non-code blocks, so why not just do that. Are you sure they would be put'd? ;) The use-case I was inferring was one of 'emulation of LC server inside the IDE'. Richard wasn't all that specific about the tooling he has for LiveCode CGIs, but I have assumed that the tooling *does* abstract output - after all, 'non-targeted put' in the IDE puts things in the message box - which is great for looking at, but not so great if it is going to be fed into something like a browser for display. Since we are talking about emulation (in this case basically 'compiling' a LC server script to a LiveCode Script to be able to run it outside of LC Server), the actual intermediate script which runs the same as the original doesn't have to be readable by humans. After all - when debugging you don't look at the machine code generated by a compiler but at the original source instead. The error positions and such can be easily mapped by using a sideline array which maps line/row indexes in the intermediate script back to the original - i.e. the intermediate script is just an implementation detail. Of course, the thing here is that mechanism which allows an emulation also allows a conversion (i.e. forever leaving the LC Server style behind) - the difference is just how the inline text / and server-specific commands (e.g. put output, put unicode, put header etc.) are translated. In that case, I agree that pre-processing the text blocks and churning them out as a sequence of 'envPut ' would make much more sense (envPut here because, as discussed above, 'put' is not *necessarily* suitable). Another option would be to turn 'put' into a 'put ... after ...' and then return the string (this would then be very much 'merge'-like). Again, the variability here is just how *that* specific command is converted - which could easily be made an option of the compiler script which does the conversion. Anyway, would what I suggested (in terms of a LCServer->LCScript compiler written in LCS) be a useful thing? For those concerned about performance (although performance in an emulator is perhaps less of a concern than production), then there is no real need to be. The compiling process can be done ahead of time, and the cost is only once-per-server-script file - the compiled version is an LiveCode Script so would have the same performance characteristics as the original. Even if you wanted to use such a thing in a dynamic case (e.g. merge like), then chances are each template file would be being used more than once, so you actually gain performance after the initial compile. In this case, a C++ solution would offer no real advantage - in fact a huge disadvantage in terms of development time, maintenance and adaptability. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From brian at milby7.com Sat Dec 9 11:43:13 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 16:43:13 +0000 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: <44c606c3936b85d525b7547a44012a34@livecode.com> <2405b709f0693a40847e4e6642200c77@livecode.com> <5e5e0aea-6662-9336-fdf0-340c0517aa8c@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Human readable conversion would be easier if multi-line strings were supported (without the manual splitting currently needed). This would allow a single put statement between LC blocks of code and no need to fuss about quote characters. Then you would only need to worry about handler definitions. The rest would just get wrapped in a default handler. Have not looked at included though, so not sure how that plays in yet. When I was reading earlier replies I was thinking of using an array instead of properties for the HTML blocks. Not sure if there is much difference in the two though. For debugging, I?m guessing that you (Mark) are saying that a mapping of converted line to source line would be maintained so that when errors are flagged the dev could be presented the correct line in source. I?m guessing that this would also work for stepping through code. On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 7:29 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-12-09 13:40, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > Would it not be easier to transform the text blocks in to a (series > > of) "put" statement(s) ? > > Being "put"ted is exactly what is going to happen to the text in the > > non-code blocks, so why not just do that. > > Are you sure they would be put'd? ;) > > The use-case I was inferring was one of 'emulation of LC server inside > the IDE'. Richard wasn't all that specific about the tooling he has for > LiveCode CGIs, but I have assumed that the tooling *does* abstract > output - after all, 'non-targeted put' in the IDE puts things in the > message box - which is great for looking at, but not so great if it is > going to be fed into something like a browser for display. > > Since we are talking about emulation (in this case basically 'compiling' > a LC server script to a LiveCode Script to be able to run it outside of > LC Server), the actual intermediate script which runs the same as the > original doesn't have to be readable by humans. After all - when > debugging you don't look at the machine code generated by a compiler but > at the original source instead. The error positions and such can be > easily mapped by using a sideline array which maps line/row indexes in > the intermediate script back to the original - i.e. the intermediate > script is just an implementation detail. > > Of course, the thing here is that mechanism which allows an emulation > also allows a conversion (i.e. forever leaving the LC Server style > behind) - the difference is just how the inline text / and > server-specific commands (e.g. put output, put unicode, put header etc.) > are translated. In that case, I agree that pre-processing the text > blocks and churning them out as a sequence of 'envPut ' would > make much more sense (envPut here because, as discussed above, 'put' is > not *necessarily* suitable). > > Another option would be to turn 'put' into a 'put ... after ...' and > then return the string (this would then be very much 'merge'-like). > Again, the variability here is just how *that* specific command is > converted - which could easily be made an option of the compiler script > which does the conversion. > > Anyway, would what I suggested (in terms of a LCServer->LCScript > compiler written in LCS) be a useful thing? > > For those concerned about performance (although performance in an > emulator is perhaps less of a concern than production), then there is no > real need to be. The compiling process can be done ahead of time, and > the cost is only once-per-server-script file - the compiled version is > an LiveCode Script so would have the same performance characteristics as > the original. Even if you wanted to use such a thing in a dynamic case > (e.g. merge like), then chances are each template file would be being > used more than once, so you actually gain performance after the initial > compile. > > In this case, a C++ solution would offer no real advantage - in fact a > huge disadvantage in terms of development time, maintenance and > adaptability. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mail at richard-hillen.de Sat Dec 9 12:10:14 2017 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:10:14 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?can=C2=B4t_save_Standalone?= Message-ID: Hello, There is - in splash screen method - a very simple stack Main with a substack Data, used since 2007. Stack Main opens stack Data. In stack Data there is a button "Save" with script "save this stack if the result is not empty then answer the result" Using this proved datastack-method in the development environment, it?s ok; But after making a new standalone with "substacks moved in separate stackfiles" if I press the Save-button in stack Data I get "can?t open stack backup file". So I cant?t save changed data. I have built the stack from button up again with the actual LC-Version, but same Error. Is there any help outside? Thank you for your helpful hints , Richard. (macOS 10.13.2, Livecode 8.1.8 Community Edition) From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 9 12:44:23 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 11:44:23 -0600 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1603c60c4d8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> If only one selection causes the crash, the problem is more likely to be the handler it calls than the external itself. I'd look at the actions that occur during the "save image" handler. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 9, 2017 2:41:19 AM William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Paul, > > Like I said MergPop works fine in my app except the fact that the app quits > after choosing 'Save Image' from the popover sheet. > Can you confirm this? > > It's a brand new iPad (2 days old) with no other apps installed. > > Greetings, > > William > >> Op 9 dec. 2017 om 03:26 heeft Paul Hibbert via use-livecode >> het volgende geschreven: >> >> William, >> >> Just did a quick test and to make this work I had to go to Standalone >> Application Settings > General and choose ?Select inclusions for the >> standalone application?, then under Standalone Application Settings > >> Inclusions scroll down and make sure ?MergPop? is selected along with any >> other inclusions necessary. >> >> It seems MergPop is not being found when allowing LC to search for the >> required inclusions. This may be a bug, but I can?t find anything on LCQC >> for it right now, although I?m sure I remember it being discussed on this >> list previously (that?s how I knew what the fix was), but I don?t remember >> the conclusion. >> >> FYI, I checked this by adding a catch tError command within the try - end >> try handler then used answer tError, it told me that LC couldn?t find the >> handler ?mergPopActivity?, so it confirmed that the library was missing, >> fixing that made it work. >> >> Paul >> >>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 12:00, William de Smet via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> I am seeing an error on using MergPop with iOS 11.2 /LC 8.1.8 when saving a >>> PNG with the 'Save Image' button on the popover sheet. >>> It quits the app immediately. >>> 'E-mail, Copy, Print, Save Files App' all work fine. Even Airdrop works >>> fine. >>> >>> I do this: >>> -------- >>> try >>> put specialfolderpath("documents") & "/" & "cars.png" into tPath >>> export snapshot from group "cars" to file tPath as PNG >>> mergPopActivity "",tPath,"","" >>> get the result >>> end try >>> ---------- >>> >>> Anyone else seeing this? >>> Is there something I can change in my script? >>> >>> >>> >>> greetings, >>> >>> William >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 12:51:57 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 10:51:57 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_can=C2=B4t_save_Standalone?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Since you already have checked the box to move substacks to separate files, chances are that it is either a ) Saving the file as a name that is different than the one you are using in your "open stack ..." command, or b ) its looking in the wrong place. when you build the standalone, you can look in the app package and visually check to see how it is being named (right click the .app, view package contents.) Or of course you can add a field to your app and add code to the splash stack that will -- put the files into field "whateverfieldyouadded" and it will tell you what files are available in the location that the defaultfolder is set to. (you could also have it -- answer the defaultfolder to see where its looking for files. Of the 2 options, a or b, my guess would be A unless livecode has change the location where it places the separated out stackfiles. (which would be option b..) you can poke around in the app package file and determine what the name of the stack file is, and where its located and then adjust your code from there. On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Hillen Richard via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hello, > > There is - in splash screen method - a very simple stack Main with a > substack Data, used since 2007. > Stack Main opens stack Data. In stack Data there is a button "Save" with > script > > "save this stack > if the result is not empty then answer the result" > > Using this proved datastack-method in the development environment, it?s ok; > But after making a new standalone with "substacks moved in separate > stackfiles" if I press the Save-button in stack Data I get "can?t open > stack backup file". > > So I cant?t save changed data. > > I have built the stack from button up again with the actual LC-Version, > but same Error. > Is there any help outside? > > Thank you for your helpful hints , > Richard. > > (macOS 10.13.2, Livecode 8.1.8 Community Edition) > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Sat Dec 9 13:32:10 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 10:32:10 -0800 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi William, I took another look and can confirm what you are seeing, at first I tried with ?Save to Files? and that works OK, I didn?t see the ?Save Image? button initially as it was off screen, however, when I did try the ?Save Image? button, the app just silently quit just as you see. I think this needs a bug report. I also tried this in the simulator with the log window open and no entries are passed to the log when the app quits, so no clues there. I looked at Photos to see if the same menu appears there, but the options available are different and ?Save Image? isn?t available in Photos, so there may be something Monte needs to adjust in the mergPop plugin to fix this. @Jacque, there is no ?Save image? handler, this is an option (button) in the iOS menu that is triggered by mergPopActivity. Paul > On 9 Dec 2017, at 00:39, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > Like I said MergPop works fine in my app except the fact that the app quits after choosing 'Save Image' from the popover sheet. > Can you confirm this? > > It's a brand new iPad (2 days old) with no other apps installed. > > Greetings, > > William > >> Op 9 dec. 2017 om 03:26 heeft Paul Hibbert via use-livecode het volgende geschreven: >> >> William, >> >> Just did a quick test and to make this work I had to go to Standalone Application Settings > General and choose ?Select inclusions for the standalone application?, then under Standalone Application Settings > Inclusions scroll down and make sure ?MergPop? is selected along with any other inclusions necessary. >> >> It seems MergPop is not being found when allowing LC to search for the required inclusions. This may be a bug, but I can?t find anything on LCQC for it right now, although I?m sure I remember it being discussed on this list previously (that?s how I knew what the fix was), but I don?t remember the conclusion. >> >> FYI, I checked this by adding a catch tError command within the try - end try handler then used answer tError, it told me that LC couldn?t find the handler ?mergPopActivity?, so it confirmed that the library was missing, fixing that made it work. >> >> Paul >> >>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 12:00, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> I am seeing an error on using MergPop with iOS 11.2 /LC 8.1.8 when saving a >>> PNG with the 'Save Image' button on the popover sheet. >>> It quits the app immediately. >>> 'E-mail, Copy, Print, Save Files App' all work fine. Even Airdrop works >>> fine. >>> >>> I do this: >>> -------- >>> try >>> put specialfolderpath("documents") & "/" & "cars.png" into tPath >>> export snapshot from group "cars" to file tPath as PNG >>> mergPopActivity "",tPath,"","" >>> get the result >>> end try >>> ---------- >>> >>> Anyone else seeing this? >>> Is there something I can change in my script? >>> >>> >>> >>> greetings, >>> >>> William >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 13:37:10 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 20:37:10 +0200 Subject: Script Editor problem Message-ID: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> My script editor (LC 8.1.8) has expanded to such an extent that both the top grab bar and the bottom resize corner rae outwith the borders of my monitor so there seems to be no way that I can shrink the thing down to a manageable and moveable size . . . Richmond. From williamdesmet at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 13:37:42 2017 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 19:37:42 +0100 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: <1603c60c4d8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> <1603c60c4d8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacqueline and Paul, I had the same thing with MergPop with iOS 7 and then MergPop needed an update which Monte released the next day. Thanks for checking Paul. Where do I file a bug report? greetings, William 2017-12-09 18:44 GMT+01:00 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > If only one selection causes the crash, the problem is more likely to be > the handler it calls than the external itself. I'd look at the actions that > occur during the "save image" handler. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > On December 9, 2017 2:41:19 AM William de Smet via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Hi Paul, >> >> Like I said MergPop works fine in my app except the fact that the app >> quits after choosing 'Save Image' from the popover sheet. >> Can you confirm this? >> >> It's a brand new iPad (2 days old) with no other apps installed. >> >> Greetings, >> >> William >> >> Op 9 dec. 2017 om 03:26 heeft Paul Hibbert via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> het volgende geschreven: >>> >>> William, >>> >>> Just did a quick test and to make this work I had to go to Standalone >>> Application Settings > General and choose ?Select inclusions for the >>> standalone application?, then under Standalone Application Settings > >>> Inclusions scroll down and make sure ?MergPop? is selected along with any >>> other inclusions necessary. >>> >>> It seems MergPop is not being found when allowing LC to search for the >>> required inclusions. This may be a bug, but I can?t find anything on LCQC >>> for it right now, although I?m sure I remember it being discussed on this >>> list previously (that?s how I knew what the fix was), but I don?t remember >>> the conclusion. >>> >>> FYI, I checked this by adding a catch tError command within the try - >>> end try handler then used answer tError, it told me that LC couldn?t find >>> the handler ?mergPopActivity?, so it confirmed that the library was >>> missing, fixing that made it work. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 12:00, William de Smet via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I am seeing an error on using MergPop with iOS 11.2 /LC 8.1.8 when >>>> saving a >>>> PNG with the 'Save Image' button on the popover sheet. >>>> It quits the app immediately. >>>> 'E-mail, Copy, Print, Save Files App' all work fine. Even Airdrop works >>>> fine. >>>> >>>> I do this: >>>> -------- >>>> try >>>> put specialfolderpath("documents") & "/" & "cars.png" into tPath >>>> export snapshot from group "cars" to file tPath as PNG >>>> mergPopActivity "",tPath,"","" >>>> get the result >>>> end try >>>> ---------- >>>> >>>> Anyone else seeing this? >>>> Is there something I can change in my script? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> greetings, >>>> >>>> William >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Sat Dec 9 13:47:07 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 11:47:07 -0700 (MST) Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1512845227846-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Its just a stack, called something like "revDebuggerLibrary" or someSuch. >From msg, can you change its rect? Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From dunbarx at aol.com Sat Dec 9 14:13:21 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 12:13:21 -0700 (MST) Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <1512845227846-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1512845227846-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1512846801025-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Actually tested, and though I can access the "revDebuggerLibrary" stack, I cannot do much with it. I can get its properties, but cannot change them, and if I do something like, as you might need: get the loc of stack "revDebuggerLibrary" set the loc of stack "revDebuggerLibrary" to item 1 of it & "," & item 2 of it +50 Nothing happens. And if I get the loc, say, of that stack, and then move it around, and then get the loc again, I get the old result. I recently found an errant pulldown button right on my script editor. I was able to delete it, copy it to another stack, whatever. So "normal" operations work on that stack, sort of. You need someone better at manipulating IDE gadgetry than me. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Dec 9 14:21:32 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 11:21:32 -0800 Subject: LC Server style survey: co-mingle code w/HTML? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0d239f54-ea6f-2e4a-65db-cd704a0aa58d@fourthworld.com> Brian Milby wrote: > Human readable conversion would be easier if multi-line strings were > supported (without the manual splitting currently needed). This would > allow a single put statement between LC blocks of code and no need to > fuss about quote characters. Like bash's heredoc: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17471 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Dec 9 14:22:02 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 14:22:02 -0500 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <1512846801025-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1512845227846-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1512846801025-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: *set* the rect of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to the 50,50,900,900 On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 2:13 PM, dunbarx via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Actually tested, and though I can access the "revDebuggerLibrary" stack, I > cannot do much with it. I can get its properties, but cannot change them, > and if I do something like, as you might need: > > get the loc of stack "revDebuggerLibrary" > set the loc of stack "revDebuggerLibrary" to item 1 of it & "," & item 2 of > it +50 > > Nothing happens. And if I get the loc, say, of that stack, and then move it > around, and then get the loc again, I get the old result. > > I recently found an errant pulldown button right on my script editor. I was > able to delete it, copy it to another stack, whatever. So "normal" > operations work on that stack, sort of. > > You need someone better at manipulating IDE gadgetry than me. > > Craig > > > > -- > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Dec 9 14:26:53 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 11:26:53 -0800 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_can=c2=b4t_save_Standalone?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hillen Richard wrote: > Using this proved datastack-method in the development environment, > it?s ok; > But after making a new standalone with "substacks moved in separate > stackfiles" if I press the Save-button in stack Data I get "can?t open > stack backup file". With most commands which may fail for a wide range of reasons, it's essential to check "the result" immediately after the command. For all I/O it's especially helpful to include a call to the sysError function so you can learn the specific error code the OS is delivering to LC. e.g.: save stack "SomeStack" if the result is not empty then answer the result &" ("& sysError() &")" exit to top end if -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at livecode.org Sat Dec 9 15:35:36 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 12:35:36 -0800 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> <1603c60c4d8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Monte is on the LC team now, so you can post a bug report here: http://quality.livecode.com Your login should be the same as the LC Store/site. Paul > On 9 Dec 2017, at 10:37, William de Smet via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Jacqueline and Paul, > > I had the same thing with MergPop with iOS 7 and then MergPop needed an > update which Monte released the next day. > Thanks for checking Paul. > > Where do I file a bug report? > > > > greetings, > > William > > > > 2017-12-09 18:44 GMT+01:00 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >> If only one selection causes the crash, the problem is more likely to be >> the handler it calls than the external itself. I'd look at the actions that >> occur during the "save image" handler. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> >> >> On December 9, 2017 2:41:19 AM William de Smet via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Paul, >>> >>> Like I said MergPop works fine in my app except the fact that the app >>> quits after choosing 'Save Image' from the popover sheet. >>> Can you confirm this? >>> >>> It's a brand new iPad (2 days old) with no other apps installed. >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> William >>> >>> Op 9 dec. 2017 om 03:26 heeft Paul Hibbert via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> het volgende geschreven: >>>> >>>> William, >>>> >>>> Just did a quick test and to make this work I had to go to Standalone >>>> Application Settings > General and choose ?Select inclusions for the >>>> standalone application?, then under Standalone Application Settings > >>>> Inclusions scroll down and make sure ?MergPop? is selected along with any >>>> other inclusions necessary. >>>> >>>> It seems MergPop is not being found when allowing LC to search for the >>>> required inclusions. This may be a bug, but I can?t find anything on LCQC >>>> for it right now, although I?m sure I remember it being discussed on this >>>> list previously (that?s how I knew what the fix was), but I don?t remember >>>> the conclusion. >>>> >>>> FYI, I checked this by adding a catch tError command within the try - >>>> end try handler then used answer tError, it told me that LC couldn?t find >>>> the handler ?mergPopActivity?, so it confirmed that the library was >>>> missing, fixing that made it work. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 12:00, William de Smet via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi there, >>>>> >>>>> I am seeing an error on using MergPop with iOS 11.2 /LC 8.1.8 when >>>>> saving a >>>>> PNG with the 'Save Image' button on the popover sheet. >>>>> It quits the app immediately. >>>>> 'E-mail, Copy, Print, Save Files App' all work fine. Even Airdrop works >>>>> fine. >>>>> >>>>> I do this: >>>>> -------- >>>>> try >>>>> put specialfolderpath("documents") & "/" & "cars.png" into tPath >>>>> export snapshot from group "cars" to file tPath as PNG >>>>> mergPopActivity "",tPath,"","" >>>>> get the result >>>>> end try >>>>> ---------- >>>>> >>>>> Anyone else seeing this? >>>>> Is there something I can change in my script? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> greetings, >>>>> >>>>> William >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Sat Dec 9 16:49:41 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 14:49:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1512845227846-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1512846801025-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1512856181023-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Ah. So the name of the bebugger stack has changed yet again. Third time in my lifetime.. I wonder why the old stack "revdebuggerLibrary" still lives, though maybe it has evolved into the library paradigm that v.8+ has embraced. Anyway that is the solution. And a reminder that all of LC is just stacks, and can be accessed if you know where to look. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 9 19:15:41 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 00:15:41 +0000 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1512845227846-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1512846801025-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <9BA82BAA-5756-4F9A-9BA9-AA4FB71B4D6A@hindu.org> Mike Kerner wrote: *set* the rect of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to the 50,50,900,900 Ditto Mike's solution: this happens so regularly that I just have to up arrow through my cmds in the msg box to find the above. Bit of a nuisance though. BR From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 9 20:25:09 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 01:25:09 +0000 Subject: The Detailed and Long files Message-ID: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> it was a huge step to do away with the defaultfolder requirement to get a file list put files(somePath) is wonderful but, "ummmm" ?we are still forced to change the defaultFolder to get the detailed|long files Is it too much to ask for these file info functions to also work "out of the box" with just a path param to the folder? BR From klaus at major-k.de Sat Dec 9 20:33:10 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 02:33:10 +0100 Subject: The Detailed and Long files In-Reply-To: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> References: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> Message-ID: <640E593B-1414-40D5-9343-E6F120922290@major-k.de> Hi Swami, > Am 10.12.2017 um 02:25 schrieb Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode : > > it was a huge step to do away with the defaultfolder requirement to get a file list > put files(somePath) is wonderful > but, "ummmm" ?we are still forced to change the defaultFolder to get > the detailed|long files > Is it too much to ask for these file info functions to also work "out of the box" with just a path param to the folder? already reported about a year ago: But unfortunately hibernated!? > BR Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From brahma at hindu.org Sun Dec 10 14:46:43 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:46:43 +0000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: <00934B6C-B412-40BD-A705-AC1029810BED@hindu.org> References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> <85B75E12-6B4F-4461-979F-CFD3A5CA2A37@hindu.org> <007001d37068$3a902030$afb06090$@net> <00934B6C-B412-40BD-A705-AC1029810BED@hindu.org> Message-ID: @ Charles It would appear that perhaps there is a possible global approach that could cover a wide variety of net access conditions. am I being na?ve or could it be this simple? if we just have this running and available all the time tsNetSetTimeouts? [add your params here] tsNetSetStatusCallback "urlCallProgressUpdate" on urlCallProgressUpdate # check the status of any and all URL download operations # give user feedback in case connection drops or transfers speed drops below low limit end urlCallProgressUpdate maybe that's really all that is needed. Then we don't worry about or code any kind of status monitoring into specific URL operations. One could "dynamically" change the time outs if different scenarios called for allowing longer time spans, i.e users expect a wait while downloading a "package" but they the don't when loading a web page. we might simply have this in back script for the whole app command toggleNetMonitor pBool if pBool = "true" then tsNetSetStatusCallback urlCallProgressUpdate else tsNetSetStatusCallback "" end if end toggleNetMonitor I don't know if there is any overhead to leaving this call back be live "24-7-365" in the app or not? but this way we could turn it on and off if that is better practice. BR On 12/8/17, 5:08 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode" wrote: Ralph -- I sent this to you off list by mistake copying here FWIW if anyone is lurking. This all looks great and covers "download files" use cases The remaining puzzles are one off url calls from/for mobile controls : 1) remote path to audio.mp3; for player 2) url web calls in browser widget to a) web pages b) youtube (video streaming) and how these play with TSNet, bandwidth dropping below set limits, or dropped connections. As yet mysterious?. " wrote: BR, I async also works in iOS just fine and dandy. In My app I am getting the background images for cards while the user first logs in. Async allows the images to be downloaded in the background. This allows me to change images without releasing a new app without hanging the app up when I used blocking libURL. The implementation was so easy it was frightening. I also have 6 of these queued up and running at the same time! First is a utility(NetworkType) to check the type of networking and a tsNet initialization handler (EISinitTSnet): -------------------------------------------------------- function GetNetworkType local tLibUrlDriver try put the behavior of stack"revLibUrl"into tLibUrlDriver end try if tLibUrlDriver is empty then return "Sockets" else return "tsNet" end if end GetNetworkType command NetworkType if GetNetworkType() = "Sockets" then answer"tsNet is disabled" else answer "tsNet in use"&cr&"Version==>"& tsNetVersion() end if end NetworkType command EISinitTSnet local tResult try tsNetInit put the result into tResult if tResult is not empty then if tResult = "tsneterr: Already initialised" then else answer tResult end if else tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 5000, 5000, 5000, 5, 10000 end if catch someerror if IsInternalUser(true) then answer TranslateError(someerror) end try end EISinitTSnet ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Get_Path function below is a function returns paths that are transparent between IDE and mobile. (Richard G. I got sucked into the returning the trailing slash before I realized it was not the best way to do it). I hacked out this code so there could be an error but the basic idea is here. I call this first handler(StartBackgroundImageDownload) 12 time quickly and all the downloads work. The app is fully functional while the downloads are in progress. I use the filename as the pID. This makes things easy when the download completes. I have not tested timeouts yet. That's the next step, handling the in/out of network access/slow network speed. Standby.... This is the guts of the asysnc file downloading: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- command StartBackgroundImageDownload pImageName local pHeaders, tStatus put tsNetGetFile(pImageName, Get_Path("Updates")&pImageName, \ "https://xxx.com/someFolder/"& \ urlencode(pImageName), pHeaders, "DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete") into tStatus-- start download if tStatus is not empty then answer tStatus end if end StartBackgroundImageDownload on DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete pID, pResult, pBytes, pCurlCode local tData, tHeaders --answer "File==>"&pID&cr&"Bytes==>"&pBytes&cr&"Result==>"&pResult&cr&"CurlCode==>"&pCurlCode if pCurlCode is not 0 then answer tsNetRetrError(pID) else if pResult = 404 then answer "File'"&&pID&&"not found==>"&pBytes&&"Result==>"&pResult delete file Get_Path("Updates")&pID -- delete file with 404 error in it else --answer "File==>"&pID&cr&"Bytes==>"&pBytes&cr&"Result==>"&pResult&cr&"CurlCode==>"&pCurlCode if pBytes > 2000 then -- GOOD DOWNLOAD rename file (Get_Path("Updates")&pID) to (Get_Path("BackgroundImages")&pID) -- file download complete --answer "File'"&&pID&&"has been downloaded. Result==>"&pResult else answer "File'"&&pID&&"has been downloaded but is too small==>"&pBytes&&"Result==>"&pResult -- this was before I had the 404 check delete file Get_Path("Updates")&pID end if end if end if tsNetCloseConn pID end DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 2:21 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami Subject: Re: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval Awesome Ralph: Looks like we need to crowd fund Charles for documentation (smile) You are about 3 days ahead of me? can you post some code snippets of your methods? On 12/7/17, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" wrote: Ok, I just got async tsNet working in IDE and Android(Testing iOS later). I works great! Hat tip to all the contributors. One question and one Observation: 1) How do you query the current tsNet timeout settings? I have quite a few places where I save the socketTimeoutInterval, set it to a new value, do something and then set it back to the saved timeout. I don't see a way to query this in the dictionary. 2) I seems the you don't need to do a "tsNetInit" in the IDE. In the IDE one gets "tsneterr: Already initialized". On Android this error does not occur. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From christer at mindcrea.com Sun Dec 10 15:09:09 2017 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?utf-8?Q?Pyyhti=C3=A4_Christer?=) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 22:09:09 +0200 Subject: LC V8.1.8 IDE has brought new problems Message-ID: <6A669F76-A8D9-4C7B-8D1C-616D8A389C23@mindcrea.com> 1. When starting, the different windows still get placed somewhat in random places 2. The tools window disappears; you have to switch it off, and switch it on to see it again 3. The IDE just dies, doesn't quit from menu, you have to use Activity Monitor to kill it. 1 was a problem in 8.1.7; 2 is now a rule, it was occasional in 8.1.7. 3 is now the new kid around the block. Using Mac OSX 10.12.6 (16G1036) with MacBook Pro Christer Pyyhti? MindCrea Ltd christer at mindcrea.com From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Dec 10 16:13:54 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 22:13:54 +0100 Subject: LC V8.1.8 IDE has brought new problems Message-ID: <37F0433D-AEFC-4930-B90B-65C54D380967@hyperhh.de> Your criticism is, TMHO, too general and by that wrong. Certainly there are certain scenarios where this occurs. (1) Never ever one of my stack window appeared in a wrong place. Not on Mac, nor on Win, nor on linux. What's sometimes wrong are the rects of some IDE windows. Tools: No, SE: often, PI: mostly no, PB: I don't use it. Since we are developers, this needs one line of code per window to have it correctly (less than your complaints). (2) I have this sometimes also here but only when dragging widgets from the tools window. This is a bug in the IDE which can be avoided if double-clicking the widget's icon, or if inserting from the menu Object > New Widget. (3) The IDE 'dies' here if and only if there are handlers running that *I* started and didn't kill. So it may be also with you the 'inappropriate' coding? Certainly the IDE does not 'die'/'hang' from nothing. > C.P. wrote: > 1. When starting, the different windows still get placed > somewhat in random places > 2. The tools window disappears; you have to switch it off, > and switch it on to see it again > 3. The IDE just dies, doesn't quit from menu, you have to > use Activity Monitor to kill it. > > 1 was a problem in 8.1.7; 2 is now a rule, it was occasional > in 8.1.7. 3 is now the new kid around the block. > Using Mac OSX 10.12.6 (16G1036) with MacBook Pro From monte at appisle.net Sun Dec 10 16:29:43 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:29:43 +1100 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> <1603c60c4d8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Folks It turns out this crash is caused by the need for a new plist entry `NSPhotoLibraryAddUsageDescription`. Cheers Monte From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun Dec 10 16:32:37 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 13:32:37 -0800 Subject: LC V8.1.8 IDE has brought new problems In-Reply-To: <6A669F76-A8D9-4C7B-8D1C-616D8A389C23@mindcrea.com> References: <6A669F76-A8D9-4C7B-8D1C-616D8A389C23@mindcrea.com> Message-ID: On 12/10/2017 12:09 PM, Pyyhti? Christer via use-livecode wrote: > 1. When starting, the different windows still get placed somewhat in random places > 2. The tools window disappears; you have to switch it off, and switch it on to see it again > 3. The IDE just dies, doesn't quit from menu, you have to use Activity Monitor to kill it. Try trashing your preferences file and restarting. That seems to be the magic mumbo-jumbo for weird problems. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Dec 10 16:34:45 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:34:45 -0600 Subject: TSNet error (18) Message-ID: <46a33e55-c23c-aea2-01bc-d4def6c3fe7c@hyperactivesw.com> A user is getting TSNet error 18 (transfer closed prematurely) when downloading a stack from a server on AWS. The same stack is working fine for virtually everyone else, so it's something on her end. We'd like to point her in the right direction, does anyone know why this might happen to a single user out of many, many others? She's running Windows 10 if that matters. Something must be cutting off the transmission, there's 556 bytes remaining to download when it stops. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at appisle.net Sun Dec 10 16:36:42 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:36:42 +1100 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> <1603c60c4d8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <93D67CED-74A0-4D06-96DD-663B8F3B75B5@appisle.net> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20759 > On 11 Dec 2017, at 8:29 am, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Folks > > It turns out this crash is caused by the need for a new plist entry `NSPhotoLibraryAddUsageDescription`. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Sun Dec 10 16:56:33 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:56:33 +1100 Subject: mergBLE? In-Reply-To: <687386B7-95A8-4A65-98BF-F6DEDD33220F@yahoo.se> References: <687386B7-95A8-4A65-98BF-F6DEDD33220F@yahoo.se> Message-ID: <5FDF2B64-AC3A-4CD0-BFAD-B7D6144A958B@appisle.net> The mac side could certainly be done with mergBLE. The iOS side would require a Call Directory Extension using CallKit and CoreBluetooth then add that into the LC app when building. I think you would be breaking new ground doing that though so it would be worthwhile discussing with LC Business Services. > On 9 Dec 2017, at 11:14 pm, Mats ?str?m via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > > for a client I would like to build an OSX app that would use the phone number of an incoming call on an iPhone to present the documents associated with the client calling. > > I then need to connect to the iPhone (maybe using mergBLE) and obtain the phone number of an incoming call. > > Is this at all doable in LiveCode? > > /Mats > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Sun Dec 10 22:24:11 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:24:11 -0800 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: <93D67CED-74A0-4D06-96DD-663B8F3B75B5@appisle.net> References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> <1603c60c4d8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93D67CED-74A0-4D06-96DD-663B8F3B75B5@appisle.net> Message-ID: Thank you for the quick response Monte, the fix works well! Paul > On 10 Dec 2017, at 13:36, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20759 > >> On 11 Dec 2017, at 8:29 am, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Folks >> >> It turns out this crash is caused by the need for a new plist entry `NSPhotoLibraryAddUsageDescription`. >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From williamdesmet at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 05:32:45 2017 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:32:45 +0100 Subject: MergPop error on iOS 11.2 & LC 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: <87539774-4AA7-4F77-87B4-7A3512C12625@livecode.org> <708E8D74-F05C-4990-85C2-6334ADAD8CCD@gmail.com> <1603c60c4d8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <93D67CED-74A0-4D06-96DD-663B8F3B75B5@appisle.net> Message-ID: Hi Monte, Just edited the plist file and it works now. Thanks! groeten, William 2017-12-11 4:24 GMT+01:00 Paul Hibbert via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > Thank you for the quick response Monte, the fix works well! > > Paul > > > On 10 Dec 2017, at 13:36, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20759 < > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20759> > > > >> On 11 Dec 2017, at 8:29 am, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Folks > >> > >> It turns out this crash is caused by the need for a new plist entry ` > NSPhotoLibraryAddUsageDescription`. > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Monte > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sean at pidigital.co.uk Mon Dec 11 05:34:25 2017 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 10:34:25 +0000 Subject: OAuth over localhost findings. Message-ID: <05522657-FB76-458D-BBDD-60870496DD59@pidigital.co.uk> Hi all I?ve been doing some work for a client who is still using LC5.0.2 ?(because it works and they don?t want to go to the subscription model) and needed to add in functionality with Adobe echoSign (now just Adobe Sign?). This has changed from a SOAP auth method over to OAuth2, rightly so. This was to be my first encounter with OAuth. I looked at the docs and method used in the OAuth library in LC9 and realised an issue. It suggests using a redirect_url of 127.0.0.1 (or ?localhost? as it?s otherwise known). However, this cannot operate over https as no one would provide a security certificate for localhosts as that would be just crazy and, as I found, most sites are now making it a requirement to pass data via https. Adobe will not allow you to provide a redirect that does not start with https. So, right away this method was out of the question. But there is an easier method and one that I would very much recommend. Because the authorisation *HAS* to be done via a browser because the user must enter their sign in credentials, it is necessary to create a stack that contains a browser object. In LC8 and up it is nearer to use the browser widget in a modal stack you can open as a sheet. It is better to have a stack prepared with your OAuth and browser handler scripts already rather than the suggested LC library method of creating a stack with uuid number (which plays no advantage). In LC5 there is no widgets so the revBrowser should be used which doesn?t work on modal stacks so a standard substack (perhaps with no decorations) should be used. The clever bit is this. For your redirect you can direct it to almost ?ANY? https: site. It doesn?t even need to be your own! (Although I would recommend you only use one that you are happy to send these temporary details to like your own or your clients). Why? Because, when you are requesting at the outset of authorisation your Auth Code, once the user has entered their credentials and signed in to the ?allow? page, that page has within its htmltext the Auth Code written in as part of its JavaScript. And, better still, once the user has clicked the Allow button, it will move on to the redirect page with parameters in the URL containing the necessary Auth Code to collect the Access Token in the next stage (which will be done using a POST command rather than a browser - and ironically gets done over http rather than https :/! ). What this means is that you add a handler to your browser stack card that handles the message browserNavigationComplete which passes the instanceID of your browser (so you can now destroy it) and its URL, complete with its parameters in URL fashion (?code=[code] etc). So you can now pull to code parameter from this URL and use it in your POST to get your Access Token. Form there it?s plain sailing over POST or whatever using your ClientID, ClientSecret and this AccessToken. The upshot is that the OAuth library probably needs revising to avoid the use of localhost and probably recommend using something similar to this method. In a couple of days, once I?m finished on this project, I can move on to providing my feedback to LC and a pull request. I hope this is of help. All the best. Sean Cole Pi Digital From mark at livecode.com Mon Dec 11 09:47:12 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 15:47:12 +0100 Subject: The Detailed and Long files In-Reply-To: <640E593B-1414-40D5-9343-E6F120922290@major-k.de> References: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> <640E593B-1414-40D5-9343-E6F120922290@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 2017-12-10 02:33, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Swami, > >> Am 10.12.2017 um 02:25 schrieb Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via >> use-livecode : >> >> it was a huge step to do away with the defaultfolder requirement to >> get a file list >> put files(somePath) is wonderful >> but, "ummmm" ?we are still forced to change the defaultFolder to get >> the detailed|long files >> Is it too much to ask for these file info functions to also work "out >> of the box" with just a path param to the folder? > > already reported about a year ago: > > > But unfortunately hibernated!? I added a second optional parameter to files/folders this morning: get files(pFolder) -- the files get files(pFolder, "detailed") -- the detailed files Its the minimal implementation - but fills the main gap that we currently suffer. The second optional parameter 'pKind' could be used in future to offer (maybe) an array form of return value, where you get an array mapping filename to an array of file attributes. PR: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6198 Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From klaus at major-k.de Mon Dec 11 09:50:38 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 15:50:38 +0100 Subject: The Detailed and Long files In-Reply-To: References: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> <640E593B-1414-40D5-9343-E6F120922290@major-k.de> Message-ID: <003EF781-958B-419C-929C-A4D5C0203D92@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > Am 11.12.2017 um 15:47 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode : > On 2017-12-10 02:33, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Swami, >>> Am 10.12.2017 um 02:25 schrieb Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode : >>> it was a huge step to do away with the defaultfolder requirement to get a file list >>> put files(somePath) is wonderful >>> but, "ummmm" ?we are still forced to change the defaultFolder to get >>> the detailed|long files >>> Is it too much to ask for these file info functions to also work "out of the box" with just a path param to the folder? >> already reported about a year ago: >> >> But unfortunately hibernated!? > I added a second optional parameter to files/folders this morning: > > get files(pFolder) -- the files > get files(pFolder, "detailed") -- the detailed files > > Its the minimal implementation - but fills the main gap that we currently suffer. The second optional parameter 'pKind' could be used in future to offer (maybe) an array form of return value, where you get an array mapping filename to an array of file attributes. > > PR: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6198 this is wonderful, thank you very much! :-) > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Dec 11 11:48:33 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:48:33 -0800 Subject: The Detailed and Long files In-Reply-To: References: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> <640E593B-1414-40D5-9343-E6F120922290@major-k.de> Message-ID: <3f5ed1ad-b047-c3f1-1f01-99681f6f38b2@sonic.net> On 12/11/2017 06:47 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > I added a second optional parameter to files/folders this morning: > > ? get files(pFolder) -- the files > ? get files(pFolder, "detailed") -- the detailed files It *is* a step away from natural-language xtalk syntax though. I take it the syntactic sugar of offering "the detailed files of pFolder" would fall under the dreaded category of synonyms? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Mon Dec 11 11:59:16 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:59:16 +0100 Subject: The Detailed and Long files In-Reply-To: <3f5ed1ad-b047-c3f1-1f01-99681f6f38b2@sonic.net> References: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> <640E593B-1414-40D5-9343-E6F120922290@major-k.de> <3f5ed1ad-b047-c3f1-1f01-99681f6f38b2@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 2017-12-11 17:48, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > It *is* a step away from natural-language xtalk syntax though. > I take it the syntactic sugar of offering > > "the detailed files of pFolder" > > would fall under the dreaded category of synonyms? No - see http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3210 It falls under the 'requires significant work to various parts of parser to make it work without potentially causing horrendous issues now or in the future' category. In general, it is best for us to avoid introducing / making worse the whole function/property synergy as any function which has a property form reserves the name of the function - i.e. you can no longer use that as a property of an object (whether custom, or engine). My general feeling is that the english-like syntax *should* be: the [detailed] files of folder i.e. 'the files' is a property of a pseudo-folder object However, we don't currently have the parsing infrastructure for that (although I think Ali did some experimental work towards it quite a while ago) - hence why we currently have *just* the function form for files/folders with specified folder. Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. The problem with function-property duality only occurs when the argument of the function is an arbitrary string - as in this case. The duality is fine if the function acts on a type which is entirely distinct from control id syntax: put the sin of pString -- OKAY, 'sin' only acts on numbers, not control refs put the files of pFolder -- NOT OKAY, a folder could have name 'control "foo"' -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Dec 11 12:06:37 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:06:37 -0800 Subject: The Detailed and Long files In-Reply-To: References: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> <640E593B-1414-40D5-9343-E6F120922290@major-k.de> <3f5ed1ad-b047-c3f1-1f01-99681f6f38b2@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 12/11/2017 08:59 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > No - see http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3210 Awesome. > My general feeling is that the english-like syntax *should* be: > > ? the [detailed] files of folder > > i.e. 'the files' is a property of a pseudo-folder object Point taken. Thanks - that was me typing without being sufficiently caffeinated. I did indeed mean "of folder " > However, we don't currently have the parsing infrastructure for that > (although I think Ali did some experimental work towards it quite a > while ago) - hence why we currently have *just* the function form for > files/folders with specified folder. That's excellent news. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 11 12:43:23 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:43:23 -0800 Subject: The Detailed and Long files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3b1b9c18-6be0-4fb6-7149-a81e272f2a30@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > In general, it is best for us to avoid introducing / making worse the > whole function/property synergy as any function which has a property > form reserves the name of the function - i.e. you can no longer use > that as a property of an object (whether custom, or engine). Thank you. That bit o' linguistic weirdness from the HyperTalk team always felt like nails on a chalkboard to me. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mail at richard-hillen.de Mon Dec 11 12:50:08 2017 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:50:08 +0100 Subject: Re can?t save Standalone Message-ID: Hello, thank you for your helpfull answers. -> Richard Gaskin: syserr is 2, wrong adress -> Mike Bonner: Standalone tries to save the datastack in folder Contents/MacOS of the App-Package; I changed the folder to Resources/_MacOS and it worked ok. Richard H. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Dec 11 14:41:50 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:41:50 -0800 Subject: Replacetext taking forever under 8.1.7 In-Reply-To: References: <8b3f7f9c-7c0d-8cc0-d2df-2b1353849f9f@fourthworld.com> <00116AB8-552D-4DD6-ABE3-4852DE36B34E@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/29/2017 12:30 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > I downloaded 8.1.2 and performed the same test as above and the difference > was substantial. I?m on a different machine, but the times appear > consistent with the test I did on 7.x on the other one. https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6197 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 15:05:02 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 12:05:02 -0800 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? Message-ID: I've tried to get this discussion going before, and failed. So perhaps a crasser start: Is anyone actually making money from livecode app's advertising, either iOS or android? If so, how did you get it done, who did you use, etc.? All I have so far is that the folks that livecode supposedly set up have no interest in dealing with us until we have sufficient volume to interest them. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 15:08:41 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 12:08:41 -0800 Subject: The Detailed and Long files In-Reply-To: References: <2D43132E-61F6-4AB0-96E6-0BC6390BAA80@hindu.org> <640E593B-1414-40D5-9343-E6F120922290@major-k.de> <3f5ed1ad-b047-c3f1-1f01-99681f6f38b2@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > Point taken. Thanks - that was me typing without being sufficiently > caffeinated. set the detailed caffeination of Mark to "High. VERY high." :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 11 15:50:19 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 12:50:19 -0800 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I've tried to get this discussion going before, and failed. So > perhaps a crasser start: > > Is anyone actually making money from livecode app's advertising, > either iOS or android? > > If so, how did you get it done, who did you use, etc.? Good news: Roxio reported Angry Birds brought in as much revenue from ads on Android as from sales on iOS. Bad news: There's only one Angry Birds. ;) I don't know about folks here specifically, but in general, like any other ad venue, in-app ads are a matter of audience size. This is a challenge for most: to get a large audience you need a solid app, and a solid marketing plan, and money to execute well on both. But that extends the time to break-even, often extended further unless you're very careful with the ad placement so it doesn't hinder the user experience. There are so many apps out there that one poorly-placed ad, or an add that makes noise, or an add that pops up to cover the screen, or any number of other annoyances the someone somehow thought was a good idea at the time, will cause the app to be uninstalled. I haven't found current stats for 2017, but this older article from the app heyday (2012) at least introduces the breakdown: Ad Network Payouts While the most common way for mobile app ads to cost advertisers money and pay out to app developers is per click, there are other commission structures available that pay for views or specific actions. The effective cost per thousand impressions, a measure that equalizes advertising revenue of apps with different click- through rates, ranged between $.53 and $1.12 in 2012. An impression occurs each time a new ad is displayed to a user. So if an app averages 1,000 daily users who see two ads each at an eCPM of $.50, the app would generate $1 on average each day. If you find stats from 2017 I've love to read 'em. But with all three app stores carrying so many hundreds of thousands of apps (millions?), the role of marketing is more important than ever. Personally, I've found ads such a poor UX that I'm unlikely to ever use any ad network. I'm considering building my own ad server for specialized needs, cross-promoting apps and services in a specialized mix that lets me tailor the experience to fully integrate with the app, more like a sponsorship than a slapped-on overlap that hinders usage. For most apps in the works I have no interest in direct advertising of any kind, looking instead for strategic value realized elsewhere. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Dec 11 15:59:26 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:59:26 +0000 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: A very good point. I block sites on facebook all the time because while trying to read an article, there are more ads than content, and I get so frustrated because the ads are designed so that if I try to scroll, and the page shifts (and it will ALWAYS shift while scrolling) I end up clicking on something which takes me to a site I didn't want to go to and they get all kinds of false click revenue, and that pisses me off. I fight back the only way I know how. I block the advertiser AND the original presence. Bob S > On Dec 11, 2017, at 12:50 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > But that extends the time to break-even, often extended further unless you're very careful with the ad placement so it doesn't hinder the user experience. There are so many apps out there that one poorly-placed ad, or an add that makes noise, or an add that pops up to cover the screen, or any number of other annoyances the someone somehow thought was a good idea at the time, will cause the app to be uninstalled. From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Dec 11 16:01:37 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:01:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <9BA82BAA-5756-4F9A-9BA9-AA4FB71B4D6A@hindu.org> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1512845227846-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1512846801025-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <9BA82BAA-5756-4F9A-9BA9-AA4FB71B4D6A@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1513026097730-0.post@n4.nabble.com> You might place a keyboard shortcut in a library script or plugin to reset the rect of the SE to your liking. Better than slogging through the msgs. Craig -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Dec 11 16:15:10 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:15:10 -0800 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> On 12/11/2017 12:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > A very good point. I block sites on facebook all the time because while trying to read an article, there are more ads than content, and I get so frustrated because the ads are designed so that if I try to scroll, and the page shifts (and it will ALWAYS shift while scrolling) I end up clicking on something which takes me to a site I didn't want to go to and they get all kinds of false click revenue, and that pisses me off. I fight back the only way I know how. I block the advertiser AND the original presence. I find that the browser combination of AdBlockPlus and uninstalling Flash does wonders. Of course, I also disabled third-party cookies and have HTTPSEverywhere and PrivacyBadger installed. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Dec 11 16:47:04 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 15:47:04 -0600 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> Message-ID: <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/11/17 3:15 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > I find that the browser combination of AdBlockPlus and uninstalling > Flash does wonders. Of course, I also disabled third-party cookies and > have HTTPSEverywhere and PrivacyBadger installed. Ghostery does most of this. I uninstalled everything else. And yeah, remove Flash entirely. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at appisle.net Mon Dec 11 17:10:09 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:10:09 +1100 Subject: OAuth over localhost findings. In-Reply-To: <05522657-FB76-458D-BBDD-60870496DD59@pidigital.co.uk> References: <05522657-FB76-458D-BBDD-60870496DD59@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Sean The HTTPS redirect uri requirement does make things a little trickier. A quick search indicates that a local HTTPS server is possible (Adobe?s Java SDK for sign uses one). I would need to research on the feasibility of implementing such a thing in LC though. At a minimum I suspect we would need to be able to accept secure connections which we can?t presently. Cheers Monte From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Dec 11 17:30:06 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:30:06 +0000 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> Do they have Ghostery for Facebook? I'm talking about facebook pages where you click to read an article, and it takes you to a browser IN facebook where you are lambasted with ads. Also seems the more you scroll, the more ads there are. Bob S > On Dec 11, 2017, at 13:47 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 12/11/17 3:15 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> I find that the browser combination of AdBlockPlus and uninstalling Flash does wonders. Of course, I also disabled third-party cookies and have HTTPSEverywhere and PrivacyBadger installed. > > Ghostery does most of this. I uninstalled everything else. And yeah, remove Flash entirely. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Dec 11 18:29:49 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:29:49 -0600 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I don't know, I'm one of the six people on earth who doesn't have or want a Facebook account. But Ghostery blocks any unwanted junk that comes in via a web page, and since you're viewing Facebook inside a web page then it's worth a try. Can't hurt. Even if it doesn't work completely there, you'll be amazed at the tracking that goes on everywhere else. Some sites have 15-20 trackers. On 12/11/17 4:30 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Do they have Ghostery for Facebook? I'm talking about facebook pages where you click to read an article, and it takes you to a browser IN facebook where you are lambasted with ads. Also seems the more you scroll, the more ads there are. > > Bob S > > > >> On Dec 11, 2017, at 13:47 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 12/11/17 3:15 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> I find that the browser combination of AdBlockPlus and uninstalling Flash does wonders. Of course, I also disabled third-party cookies and have HTTPSEverywhere and PrivacyBadger installed. >> >> Ghostery does most of this. I uninstalled everything else. And yeah, remove Flash entirely. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Dec 11 18:34:58 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:34:58 +0000 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <184F3C27-6C0C-4C96-82E6-110679A68728@iotecdigital.com> I do use Ghostery on my workstations/laptops, but this is of course on my iPhone. I'll see if there is any such thing. If it can't hook into Facebook tho, I doubt it will work, and Facebook is unlikely to provide a way to block ads as that is their bread and butter. Bob S > On Dec 11, 2017, at 15:29 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I don't know, I'm one of the six people on earth who doesn't have or want a Facebook account. But Ghostery blocks any unwanted junk that comes in via a web page, and since you're viewing Facebook inside a web page then it's worth a try. Can't hurt. > > Even if it doesn't work completely there, you'll be amazed at the tracking that goes on everywhere else. Some sites have 15-20 trackers. From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 18:55:51 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 15:55:51 -0800 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <184F3C27-6C0C-4C96-82E6-110679A68728@iotecdigital.com> References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> <184F3C27-6C0C-4C96-82E6-110679A68728@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: If nothing else, there is a ghostery browser for iOS; it is what I use on the rare time I need one on my phone. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Dec 11 19:16:13 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:16:13 -0800 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> On 12/11/2017 03:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I don't know, I'm one of the six people on earth who doesn't have or want a Facebook account. But Ghostery blocks any unwanted junk that comes in via a web page, and since you're viewing Facebook inside a web page then it's worth a try. Can't hurt. I'm one of the other six. Never been tempted by it. I used to have Ghostery installed, and probably it's still on my Firefox browser. But I switched over to Chrome a while back and I guess I never bothered to install it. My experience has been that all those tools do a pretty good job of filtering, and none of them is perfect. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 19:36:44 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:36:44 -0800 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> Message-ID: I guess I make it three. I signed up, and didn't log in, the day they announced their own email, just to stop someone else from being labeled dochawk. Then at my reunion a couple of months ago, it came up that someone had a page for our class. We went through a comedy of errors trying to find and login to my account. Or maybe that I could login, but that my name didn't show (as I'd never given it more than initials). Somehow, we connected one of them to my wife, and I guess that let me see a name and send a message, or maybe they sent her some kind of invitation. And then they were exasperated that I hadn't filled out a "profile" or some such. I logged in for a while, wondering if anything interesting would happen. I found that adblock could make a couple of particularly annoying columns it through at me go away, but really did not get interested in the blather. And then, once you don't log in often enough, it sends you messages offering to help . . . I go back to 1984 on usenet, but just don't understand this whole facetwit and tell the world what I had for breakfast thing . . . On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/11/2017 03:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> I don't know, I'm one of the six people on earth who doesn't have or want >> a Facebook account. But Ghostery blocks any unwanted junk that comes in via >> a web page, and since you're viewing Facebook inside a web page then it's >> worth a try. Can't hurt. > > I'm one of the other six. Never been tempted by it. > I used to have Ghostery installed, and probably it's still on my Firefox > browser. But I switched over to Chrome a while back and I guess I never > bothered to install it. My experience has been that all those tools do a > pretty good job of filtering, and none of them is perfect. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Dec 11 20:00:14 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:00:14 -0800 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> Message-ID: <0f91847d-bdd7-4029-ba29-a7e053badf48@sonic.net> On 12/11/2017 04:36 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > I guess I make it three. > > I signed up, and didn't log in, the day they announced their own > email, just to stop someone else from being labeled dochawk. One thing I found while helping a neighbor get untangled from fb is that you can never delete your account. You can disable it, but all the history is still there, ready for you to come back to the flock. Smells a bit like scientology. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 11 21:56:05 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:56:05 -0800 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> References: <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9266574a-79f4-3725-02f7-6230b3109085@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 12/11/2017 03:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I don't know, I'm one of the six people on earth who doesn't have > > or want a Facebook account.... > > I'm one of the other six. Never been tempted by it. If you develop apps for others to publish, that can work well. As a personal experience it's a matter of taste. But for publishers, or anyone doing any B2C marketing, Facebook is an essential component. In our modern world, it *is* the Internet for many, or at least a good chunk of it. Remember this article shared here last week or so (was this from Alejandro?): Note Table 4 there, and this note above it: What has changed over the last 4 years is market share of traffic on the Web. It looks like nothing has changed, but GOOG and FB now have direct influence over 70%+ of internet traffic. Mobile internet traffic is now the majority of traffic worldwide and in Latin America alone, GOOG and FB services have had 60% of mobile traffic in 2015, growing to 70% by the end of 2016. The remaining 30% of traffic is shared among all other mobile apps and websites. Mobile devices are primarily used for accessing GOOG and FB networks. Without a page on Facebook, a great many consumers will never know your product exists. This is the world we're in. We don't need the end of Net Neutrality to watch the Internet become controlled by a handful of companies. It already is: rather than ISPs it's the Big Four, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google. Learn to do business with them or perish. The net is now theirs, and we gave it to them. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Dec 11 23:27:58 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:27:58 -0600 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> Message-ID: <16048fab4b0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> That's kind of amazing, half the no-facebook people in the world are on this list. I'd be a boring participant anyway, I usually skip breakfast. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 11, 2017 6:38:44 PM "Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode" wrote: > I guess I make it three. > > I signed up, and didn't log in, the day they announced their own > email, just to stop someone else from being labeled dochawk. > > Then at my reunion a couple of months ago, it came up that someone had > a page for our class. We went through a comedy of errors trying to > find and login to my account. Or maybe that I could login, but that > my name didn't show (as I'd never given it more than initials). > > Somehow, we connected one of them to my wife, and I guess that let me > see a name and send a message, or maybe they sent her some kind of > invitation. > > And then they were exasperated that I hadn't filled out a "profile" or > some such. > > I logged in for a while, wondering if anything interesting would > happen. I found that adblock could make a couple of particularly > annoying columns it through at me go away, but really did not get > interested in the blather. > > And then, once you don't log in often enough, it sends you messages > offering to help . . . > > I go back to 1984 on usenet, but just don't understand this whole > facetwit and tell the world what I had for breakfast thing . . . > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: >> On 12/11/2017 03:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> I don't know, I'm one of the six people on earth who doesn't have or want >>> a Facebook account. But Ghostery blocks any unwanted junk that comes in via >>> a web page, and since you're viewing Facebook inside a web page then it's >>> worth a try. Can't hurt. >> >> I'm one of the other six. Never been tempted by it. >> I used to have Ghostery installed, and probably it's still on my Firefox >> browser. But I switched over to Chrome a while back and I guess I never >> bothered to install it. My experience has been that all those tools do a >> pretty good job of filtering, and none of them is perfect. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From danoldboy at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 00:01:30 2017 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 05:01:30 +0000 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <16048fab4b0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4223147f-58be-5c47-36cc-b7695ad05ca9@fourthworld.com> <1bfaed68-8ddf-718e-b78d-ae48c5e4d70d@sonic.net> <261902e7-dda6-e336-35a6-c711bb8c5de2@hyperactivesw.com> <69E92B9D-9A0A-4B38-AA71-CE5681D3D266@iotecdigital.com> <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> <16048fab4b0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: When the GDPR comes into force in May 2018, Facebook et al will be legally obliged to remove all of your data from its databases should you make that request https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/ On 12 Dec 2017 4:28 am, "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That's kind of amazing, half the no-facebook people in the world are on > this list. I'd be a boring participant anyway, I usually skip breakfast. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On December 11, 2017 6:38:44 PM "Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > I guess I make it three. >> >> I signed up, and didn't log in, the day they announced their own >> email, just to stop someone else from being labeled dochawk. >> >> Then at my reunion a couple of months ago, it came up that someone had >> a page for our class. We went through a comedy of errors trying to >> find and login to my account. Or maybe that I could login, but that >> my name didn't show (as I'd never given it more than initials). >> >> Somehow, we connected one of them to my wife, and I guess that let me >> see a name and send a message, or maybe they sent her some kind of >> invitation. >> >> And then they were exasperated that I hadn't filled out a "profile" or >> some such. >> >> I logged in for a while, wondering if anything interesting would >> happen. I found that adblock could make a couple of particularly >> annoying columns it through at me go away, but really did not get >> interested in the blather. >> >> And then, once you don't log in often enough, it sends you messages >> offering to help . . . >> >> I go back to 1984 on usenet, but just don't understand this whole >> facetwit and tell the world what I had for breakfast thing . . . >> >> On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >>> On 12/11/2017 03:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know, I'm one of the six people on earth who doesn't have or >>>> want >>>> a Facebook account. But Ghostery blocks any unwanted junk that comes in >>>> via >>>> a web page, and since you're viewing Facebook inside a web page then >>>> it's >>>> worth a try. Can't hurt. >>>> >>> >>> I'm one of the other six. Never been tempted by it. >>> I used to have Ghostery installed, and probably it's still on my Firefox >>> browser. But I switched over to Chrome a while back and I guess I never >>> bothered to install it. My experience has been that all those tools do a >>> pretty good job of filtering, and none of them is perfect. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription >>> preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >> (702) 508-8462 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Tue Dec 12 03:55:06 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:55:06 -0700 (MST) Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> For future problems like this I've just updated CollectMyStacks to include stack reduction. http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/855/CollectMyStacks Hope you find it useful. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode TinyIDE Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 05:40:43 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:40:43 +0200 Subject: videoClip Message-ID: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> LiveCode 8.1.8, Mac OS 10.7.5 So, I imported a video in 3 formats into my stack: BubbleSort.mp4 BubbleSort.avi BubbleSort.mov and in a button popped this script: on mouseUp play videoClip "BubbleSort.mp4" end mouseUp [and variants thereof] and in all 3 cases all I got was the sound track: no film. Is it: 1. Me? 2. LiveCode 8.1.8? 3. My computer? Richmond. From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 05:47:53 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:47:53 +0000 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Richmond, You are affected by this bug: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13951 I suggest using a player instead. The "play audioclip/videoclip .." syntax does not support a lot of multimedia formats. Best, Panos -- On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > LiveCode 8.1.8, Mac OS 10.7.5 > > So, I imported a video in 3 formats into my stack: > > BubbleSort.mp4 > BubbleSort.avi > BubbleSort.mov > > and in a button popped this script: > > on mouseUp > play videoClip "BubbleSort.mp4" > end mouseUp > > [and variants thereof] > > and in all 3 cases all I got was the sound track: no film. > > Is it: > > 1. Me? > 2. LiveCode 8.1.8? > 3. My computer? > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 05:58:10 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:58:10 +0200 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> Message-ID: <36eee427-b9cf-1cd5-2cd7-cd9093db2686@gmail.com> Thank you, Panos, although when I first read your message I read it as: "You are infected by this bug:'' Richmond. On 12/12/17 12:47 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > > You are affected by this bug: > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13951 > > I suggest using a player instead. The "play audioclip/videoclip .." syntax > does not support a lot of multimedia formats. > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> LiveCode 8.1.8, Mac OS 10.7.5 >> >> So, I imported a video in 3 formats into my stack: >> >> BubbleSort.mp4 >> BubbleSort.avi >> BubbleSort.mov >> >> and in a button popped this script: >> >> on mouseUp >> play videoClip "BubbleSort.mp4" >> end mouseUp >> >> [and variants thereof] >> >> and in all 3 cases all I got was the sound track: no film. >> >> Is it: >> >> 1. Me? >> 2. LiveCode 8.1.8? >> 3. My computer? >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 05:59:20 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:59:20 +0200 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> That bug has been sitting around, unsorted-out for a very long time. Um? Richmond. On 12/12/17 12:47 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > > You are affected by this bug: > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13951 > > I suggest using a player instead. The "play audioclip/videoclip .." syntax > does not support a lot of multimedia formats. > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> LiveCode 8.1.8, Mac OS 10.7.5 >> >> So, I imported a video in 3 formats into my stack: >> >> BubbleSort.mp4 >> BubbleSort.avi >> BubbleSort.mov >> >> and in a button popped this script: >> >> on mouseUp >> play videoClip "BubbleSort.mp4" >> end mouseUp >> >> [and variants thereof] >> >> and in all 3 cases all I got was the sound track: no film. >> >> Is it: >> >> 1. Me? >> 2. LiveCode 8.1.8? >> 3. My computer? >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 06:02:59 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:02:59 +0000 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> Message-ID: I guess the reason for that is that you can do waaay more stuff with the player object, so this bug is not of very high priority. On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That bug has been sitting around, unsorted-out > for a very long time. > > Um? > > Richmond. > > On 12/12/17 12:47 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi Richmond, >> >> You are affected by this bug: >> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13951 >> >> I suggest using a player instead. The "play audioclip/videoclip .." syntax >> does not support a lot of multimedia formats. >> >> Best, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> LiveCode 8.1.8, Mac OS 10.7.5 >>> >>> So, I imported a video in 3 formats into my stack: >>> >>> BubbleSort.mp4 >>> BubbleSort.avi >>> BubbleSort.mov >>> >>> and in a button popped this script: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> play videoClip "BubbleSort.mp4" >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> [and variants thereof] >>> >>> and in all 3 cases all I got was the sound track: no film. >>> >>> Is it: >>> >>> 1. Me? >>> 2. LiveCode 8.1.8? >>> 3. My computer? >>> >>> Richmond. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 06:05:48 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:05:48 +0200 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> Message-ID: <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> One of the reasons why videoClip and AudioClip are useful is to do with portativity. Richmond. On 12/12/17 1:02 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > I guess the reason for that is that you can do waaay more stuff with the > player object, so this bug is not of very high priority. > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> That bug has been sitting around, unsorted-out >> for a very long time. >> >> Um? >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 12/12/17 12:47 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Hi Richmond, >>> >>> You are affected by this bug: >>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13951 >>> >>> I suggest using a player instead. The "play audioclip/videoclip .." syntax >>> does not support a lot of multimedia formats. >>> >>> Best, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> LiveCode 8.1.8, Mac OS 10.7.5 >>>> So, I imported a video in 3 formats into my stack: >>>> >>>> BubbleSort.mp4 >>>> BubbleSort.avi >>>> BubbleSort.mov >>>> >>>> and in a button popped this script: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> play videoClip "BubbleSort.mp4" >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> [and variants thereof] >>>> >>>> and in all 3 cases all I got was the sound track: no film. >>>> >>>> Is it: >>>> >>>> 1. Me? >>>> 2. LiveCode 8.1.8? >>>> 3. My computer? >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From thatkeith at mac.com Tue Dec 12 06:10:12 2017 From: thatkeith at mac.com (Keith Martin) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:10:12 +0000 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7D84BE96-125B-43BE-A9EC-CAFDFB9FF63F@mac.com> On 12 Dec 2017, at 11:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > One of the reasons why videoClip and AudioClip are useful > is to do with portativity. This is a VERY good reason to support this properly. I still find it frankly weird that LC isn't able to handle MP3 media more flexibly than it does at the moment. :-/ k From mark at livecode.com Tue Dec 12 06:24:06 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:24:06 +0100 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> Message-ID: <23322dd84be82155580b26660ab997ec@livecode.com> On 2017-12-12 12:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > One of the reasons why videoClip and AudioClip are useful > is to do with portativity. That would be true - if playing a videoclip didn't use a temporary player object 'under the hood' - i.e. you get no more with using videoclips than you do with players with regards portability... (This is not to say 'play videoclip' shouldn't work - just that it is just sugar for using a player). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Dec 12 06:29:59 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:29:59 +0100 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: <23322dd84be82155580b26660ab997ec@livecode.com> References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> <23322dd84be82155580b26660ab997ec@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2017-12-12 12:24, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-12-12 12:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> One of the reasons why videoClip and AudioClip are useful >> is to do with portativity. > > That would be true - if playing a videoclip didn't use a temporary > player object 'under the hood' - i.e. you get no more with using > videoclips than you do with players with regards portability... Ignore that - I misread 'portativity' as 'portability' :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From panos.merakos at livecode.com Tue Dec 12 07:06:11 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:06:11 +0000 Subject: This Week in LiveCode 110 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #110 here: https://goo.gl/4wxNaD This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From tfabacher at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 09:10:14 2017 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:10:14 -0500 Subject: Android Install with LiveCode Message-ID: Hello All, Currently, Google supports 50MB in the App install. There is a way to reference another 200MB is a separate file in native Java Apps. Is that possible in LiveCode?? Now iOS support 100MB+ with LiveCode, but Android still seems to be limited to 50MB. Please help, Todd From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Dec 12 10:41:28 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 15:41:28 +0000 Subject: advertising,again, and is anyone actually making money from it? In-Reply-To: <9266574a-79f4-3725-02f7-6230b3109085@fourthworld.com> References: <157ba943-edd3-4de0-ea41-3c46368cf79d@sonic.net> <9266574a-79f4-3725-02f7-6230b3109085@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: If only AOL could have hung in there. ;-) Bob S > On Dec 11, 2017, at 18:56 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Without a page on Facebook, a great many consumers will never know your product exists. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 12 13:07:54 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:07:54 -0600 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> <23322dd84be82155580b26660ab997ec@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1604be96090.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I misread portativity too but they're similar anyway. It isn't hard to store the video as a custom property, write it to the temp folder on demand, and assign a player to that filename. Later just delete the temp file. I've done this and it works fine. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 12, 2017 5:31:49 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-12-12 12:24, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> On 2017-12-12 12:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>> One of the reasons why videoClip and AudioClip are useful >>> is to do with portativity. >> >> That would be true - if playing a videoclip didn't use a temporary >> player object 'under the hood' - i.e. you get no more with using >> videoclips than you do with players with regards portability... > > Ignore that - I misread 'portativity' as 'portability' :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 12 14:26:25 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:26:25 -0500 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working on, and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks and a script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really helpful with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" and the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open the standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like "home". From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Dec 12 14:30:57 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 19:30:57 +0000 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <259FCA63-AE30-4362-9E13-9D2DF42A31AE@iotecdigital.com> That's a crazy idea. No one would use something like that. ;-) Bob S > On Dec 12, 2017, at 11:26 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at > startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working on, > and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks and a > script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really helpful > with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" and > the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open the > standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like "home". From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 12 14:36:11 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:36:11 -0500 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <259FCA63-AE30-4362-9E13-9D2DF42A31AE@iotecdigital.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <259FCA63-AE30-4362-9E13-9D2DF42A31AE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Well, if we ever group-hack the ide, maybe you could build it, Bob. I'd like that. On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That's a crazy idea. No one would use something like that. ;-) > > Bob S > > > > > On Dec 12, 2017, at 11:26 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at > > startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working on, > > and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks and a > > script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really helpful > > with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" > and > > the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open > the > > standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like "home". > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Tue Dec 12 14:56:49 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 19:56:49 +0000 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <259FCA63-AE30-4362-9E13-9D2DF42A31AE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Sounds like Devolution On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 1:37 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Well, if we ever group-hack the ide, maybe you could build it, Bob. I'd > like that. > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > That's a crazy idea. No one would use something like that. ;-) > > > > Bob S > > > > > > > > > On Dec 12, 2017, at 11:26 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at > > > startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working > on, > > > and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks > and a > > > script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really > helpful > > > with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" > > and > > > the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open > > the > > > standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like > "home". > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 12 15:09:46 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:09:46 -0600 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 12/12/17 1:26 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at > startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working on, > and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks and a > script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really helpful > with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" and > the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open the > standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like "home". You mean, like the Start Center? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 12 15:38:35 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 15:38:35 -0500 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I forgot about Start Center. Can you (easily) edit Start Center? Does it get botched with each new LC version load? What's wrong with Home? I like Home. It's a nice name. It feels like the name I might choose for a stack that opens every time LC loads. On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/12/17 1:26 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at >> startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working on, >> and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks and a >> script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really helpful >> with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" >> and >> the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open the >> standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like "home". >> > > You mean, like the Start Center? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 12 16:00:24 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 15:00:24 -0600 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <3c783de7-c19e-9794-879d-8540bdddcb34@hyperactivesw.com> "Home" has a specific meaning and there is already a (required) stack with that name. Start Center can be set in Preferences to show on every startup. It lists the last used stacks. If you use a utility frequently it will be there. The most current projects you've worked on will also be there. On 12/12/17 2:38 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > I forgot about Start Center. Can you (easily) edit Start Center? Does it > get botched with each new LC version load? What's wrong with Home? I like > Home. It's a nice name. It feels like the name I might choose for a stack > that opens every time LC loads. > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 12/12/17 1:26 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at >>> startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working on, >>> and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks and a >>> script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really helpful >>> with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" >>> and >>> the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open the >>> standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like "home". >>> >> >> You mean, like the Start Center? >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 12 16:15:49 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:15:49 +0000 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <3c783de7-c19e-9794-879d-8540bdddcb34@hyperactivesw.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <3c783de7-c19e-9794-879d-8540bdddcb34@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <85CA95AE-9B66-4002-82BC-3389275FFF75@hindu.org> J. Landman Gay Start Center can be set in Preferences to show on every startup. It lists the last used stacks. If you use a utility frequently it will be there. The most current projects you've worked on will also be there. 9 dp 10 set pref to open on start up? reboot?"nada" BR From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Dec 12 16:17:25 2017 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:17:25 +0000 Subject: OAuth over localhost findings. In-Reply-To: References: <05522657-FB76-458D-BBDD-60870496DD59@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: Hey Monte, The really interesting thing that we could utilise within the OAuth lib, regardless of whether the redirect is set to secure or insecure, once the navigation occurs we can capture the parameters returned from the URL. It would be unreasonable to expect all of our app customers (especially as many of these are not techie people) to set up a secure server on their machines just to create a signable a document. For now, I have written my own library that does work with any secure site, especially as yours is not available for anything created in less than LC9. Thanks for reading though. It was an observation I thought you might like. Sean Cole *Pi Digital * On 11 December 2017 at 22:10, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Sean > > The HTTPS redirect uri requirement does make things a little trickier. A > quick search indicates that a local HTTPS server is possible (Adobe?s Java > SDK for sign uses one). I would need to research on the feasibility of > implementing such a thing in LC though. At a minimum I suspect we would > need to be able to accept secure connections which we can?t presently. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 12 16:18:51 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:18:51 -0500 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <3c783de7-c19e-9794-879d-8540bdddcb34@hyperactivesw.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <3c783de7-c19e-9794-879d-8540bdddcb34@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Sorry, I thought my tongue-in-cheek was obvious. I've heard of Home. I might even have modified mine heavily back in the HC 1/HC 2 days. What I'm wondering about Start Center is if it gets replaced with each new install of LC, because if you were to hack it to have it be what Home originally was, and it gets replaced with each version, you aren't getting anything. The recently used stacks list is not as helpful as you would like because in the case of Levure projects, you will end up with two stacks in the list for each project. If you open the wrong one, you have a problem. Plus the list gets crowded out and truncated, a situation that is made worse with script-only stacks (if you open them in the SE) A good-old-fashioned Home would make these things easier. On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 4:00 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > "Home" has a specific meaning and there is already a (required) stack with > that name. > > Start Center can be set in Preferences to show on every startup. It lists > the last used stacks. If you use a utility frequently it will be there. The > most current projects you've worked on will also be there. > > > On 12/12/17 2:38 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> I forgot about Start Center. Can you (easily) edit Start Center? Does it >> get botched with each new LC version load? What's wrong with Home? I >> like >> Home. It's a nice name. It feels like the name I might choose for a >> stack >> that opens every time LC loads. >> >> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> On 12/12/17 1:26 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at >>>> startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working on, >>>> and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks and >>>> a >>>> script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really helpful >>>> with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" >>>> and >>>> the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open >>>> the >>>> standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like >>>> "home". >>>> >>>> >>> You mean, like the Start Center? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> >> > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brian at milby7.com Tue Dec 12 16:28:30 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:28:30 +0000 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <3c783de7-c19e-9794-879d-8540bdddcb34@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Without even looking I would say yes. A plug-in (like Devolution) would not get touched though (and would have the same settings across different versions). On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 3:19 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Sorry, I thought my tongue-in-cheek was obvious. I've heard of Home. I > might even have modified mine heavily back in the HC 1/HC 2 days. > What I'm wondering about Start Center is if it gets replaced with each new > install of LC, because if you were to hack it to have it be what Home > originally was, and it gets replaced with each version, you aren't getting > anything. The recently used stacks list is not as helpful as you would > like because in the case of Levure projects, you will end up with two > stacks in the list for each project. If you open the wrong one, you have a > problem. Plus the list gets crowded out and truncated, a situation that is > made worse with script-only stacks (if you open them in the SE) A > good-old-fashioned Home would make these things easier. > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 4:00 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > "Home" has a specific meaning and there is already a (required) stack > with > > that name. > > > > Start Center can be set in Preferences to show on every startup. It lists > > the last used stacks. If you use a utility frequently it will be there. > The > > most current projects you've worked on will also be there. > > > > > > On 12/12/17 2:38 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > > >> I forgot about Start Center. Can you (easily) edit Start Center? Does > it > >> get botched with each new LC version load? What's wrong with Home? I > >> like > >> Home. It's a nice name. It feels like the name I might choose for a > >> stack > >> that opens every time LC loads. > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> On 12/12/17 1:26 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >>> > >>> You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at > >>>> startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working > on, > >>>> and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks > and > >>>> a > >>>> script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really > helpful > >>>> with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a > "standalone" > >>>> and > >>>> the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open > >>>> the > >>>> standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like > >>>> "home". > >>>> > >>>> > >>> You mean, like the Start Center? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at appisle.net Tue Dec 12 16:30:21 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 08:30:21 +1100 Subject: OAuth over localhost findings. In-Reply-To: References: <05522657-FB76-458D-BBDD-60870496DD59@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: > On 13 Dec 2017, at 8:17 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > It > would be unreasonable to expect all of our app customers (especially as > many of these are not techie people) to set up a secure server on their > machines just to create a signable a document. That?s exactly what their Java SDK does though. It is distributed with some certificates for localhost. Cheers Monte From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 12 17:20:00 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:20:00 +0000 Subject: Stop the Spinner Widget Message-ID: <845C8B1B-355E-491B-9011-96BDDA4AD324@hindu.org> 8.1.8 Tried some animated GIF spinner "loaders", look horrible when layered cards with color? all "pixelated" edges. Downloaded 9 dp10 since the spinner is not available in 8.1.8 pulled out the new spinner widget. lovely! Of course we can hide/show, but can we stop it? ?. Like we do with animated gifs, set the currentFrame to "0" # stop set the currentFrame to -1 # start does not have many props and "disable" does nothing, at least with respect to the "motion" of the spinner. ?? From livfoss at mac.com Tue Dec 12 17:20:50 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 23:20:50 +0100 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: <7D84BE96-125B-43BE-A9EC-CAFDFB9FF63F@mac.com> References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> <7D84BE96-125B-43BE-A9EC-CAFDFB9FF63F@mac.com> Message-ID: <10FA8232-04E1-4065-A856-723E9FA64E8B@mac.com> Me too. Graham > On 12 Dec 2017, at 12:10, Keith Martin via use-livecode wrote: > > On 12 Dec 2017, at 11:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > >> One of the reasons why videoClip and AudioClip are useful >> is to do with portativity. > > This is a VERY good reason to support this properly. I still find it frankly weird that LC isn't able to handle MP3 media more flexibly than it does at the moment. :-/ > > k From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 12 17:33:41 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:33:41 -0600 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <3c783de7-c19e-9794-879d-8540bdddcb34@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7a12dfba-6148-90e5-1591-4fe8c6264e72@hyperactivesw.com> Recent stacks are stored in the prefs file, so they are persistent across all LC versions that share the same prefs file. However, if you change the Start Center then yes, I'm pretty sure that would get replaced. The other points you make are valid, including that you've been around long enough that I should have caught the tongue-in-cheek comments. :) On 12/12/17 3:18 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > Sorry, I thought my tongue-in-cheek was obvious. I've heard of Home. I > might even have modified mine heavily back in the HC 1/HC 2 days. > What I'm wondering about Start Center is if it gets replaced with each new > install of LC, because if you were to hack it to have it be what Home > originally was, and it gets replaced with each version, you aren't getting > anything. The recently used stacks list is not as helpful as you would > like because in the case of Levure projects, you will end up with two > stacks in the list for each project. If you open the wrong one, you have a > problem. Plus the list gets crowded out and truncated, a situation that is > made worse with script-only stacks (if you open them in the SE) A > good-old-fashioned Home would make these things easier. > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 4:00 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> "Home" has a specific meaning and there is already a (required) stack with >> that name. >> >> Start Center can be set in Preferences to show on every startup. It lists >> the last used stacks. If you use a utility frequently it will be there. The >> most current projects you've worked on will also be there. >> >> >> On 12/12/17 2:38 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> I forgot about Start Center. Can you (easily) edit Start Center? Does it >>> get botched with each new LC version load? What's wrong with Home? I >>> like >>> Home. It's a nice name. It feels like the name I might choose for a >>> stack >>> that opens every time LC loads. >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 12/12/17 1:26 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> You know what would be really great? If we had a stack that opened at >>>>> startup that had links to all those projects we're currently working on, >>>>> and those utilities we need to run frequently, like collectMyStacks and >>>>> a >>>>> script to move and resize the script editor. It would be really helpful >>>>> with Levure projects, because we end up with two stacks, a "standalone" >>>>> and >>>>> the first UI stack in the recent stacks list (and we only want to open >>>>> the >>>>> standalone). We could call this new opening stack something like >>>>> "home". >>>>> >>>>> >>>> You mean, like the Start Center? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 12 17:45:03 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:45:03 +0000 Subject: Tab alignment in fields Message-ID: <3D72C4D3-59F8-4CD8-BD08-A4D7BCEF2728@hindu.org> very old dumb question: If you set tab stops for a field, Is there a way to set the alignment for one stop/column? e.g. have all the numbers in the final column on the right align vertically to the decimal point or left?? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but just checking if I missed something new? All the new text style options seem to be for an entire paragraph (aka "line). Nothing in the dictionary related to a "chunk" alignment, BR From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Tue Dec 12 18:55:56 2017 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 18:55:56 -0500 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: <3D72C4D3-59F8-4CD8-BD08-A4D7BCEF2728@hindu.org> References: <3D72C4D3-59F8-4CD8-BD08-A4D7BCEF2728@hindu.org> Message-ID: <5abb461f-44cc-b8a3-266d-8c4a0e48c817@livecode.com> On 12/12/2017 17:45, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > If you set tab stops for a field, Is there a way to set the alignment for one stop/column? > e.g. have all the numbers in the final column on the right align vertically to the decimal point or left?? Yup - https://livecode.com/resources/api/#livecode_script/tabalign > I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but just checking if I missed something new? I added it in LiveCode 7 because we needed most of its mechanisms to implement right-to-left text properly; getting per-tab-cell alignment was just a happy bonus ;) > All the new text style options seem to be for an entire paragraph (aka "line). Nothing in the dictionary related to a "chunk" alignment. By necessity, tabs have to apply to a whole line - it doesn't really make sense to have them settable at any other granularity. (Though, as always, you can set them on the field as a whole). Fraser From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 12 19:34:40 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 18:34:40 -0600 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: <5abb461f-44cc-b8a3-266d-8c4a0e48c817@livecode.com> References: <3D72C4D3-59F8-4CD8-BD08-A4D7BCEF2728@hindu.org> <5abb461f-44cc-b8a3-266d-8c4a0e48c817@livecode.com> Message-ID: <20dc4cf8-f5eb-6480-ef4e-0fff9567e002@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/12/17 5:55 PM, Fraser Gordon via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/12/2017 17:45, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: >> If you set tab stops for a field, Is there a way to set the alignment for one stop/column? >> e.g. have all the numbers in the final column on the right align vertically to the decimal point or left?? > Yup -https://livecode.com/resources/api/#livecode_script/tabalign > I was working with this recently. The dictionary says "The tabAlign of a field is a return delimited list of alignments, separated by commas." How is a return delimited list separated by commas? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From hh at hyperhh.de Tue Dec 12 20:14:51 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 02:14:51 +0100 Subject: Tab alignment in fields Message-ID: <5EB99768-E4E6-4426-9A1E-5B16B2272B01@hyperhh.de> Fraser?!? Are you back? Back to make libbrowser run on Raspi? :---))) Hermann From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Dec 12 20:34:12 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:34:12 -0800 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <3c783de7-c19e-9794-879d-8540bdddcb34@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3ec54a48-42b1-2cfe-3079-d5be35ae409c@sonic.net> On 12/12/2017 01:18 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > Sorry, I thought my tongue-in-cheek was obvious. I've heard of Home. I > might even have modified mine heavily back in the HC 1/HC 2 days. I did catch the tongue-in-cheekness, so I stayed out of this. Fun watching it take shape, though. But I do want to point out that the home stack is hackable to your heart's content: home.livecodescript. Interesting stuff in there, as well... worth a look. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Dec 12 20:43:47 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:43:47 -0800 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: <5EB99768-E4E6-4426-9A1E-5B16B2272B01@hyperhh.de> References: <5EB99768-E4E6-4426-9A1E-5B16B2272B01@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On 12/12/2017 05:14 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > Fraser?!? > Are you back? Back to make libbrowser run on Raspi? :---))) https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6182 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Dec 12 22:53:32 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:53:32 +1000 Subject: TSNet error (18) In-Reply-To: <46a33e55-c23c-aea2-01bc-d4def6c3fe7c@hyperactivesw.com> References: <46a33e55-c23c-aea2-01bc-d4def6c3fe7c@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7932864A-9DEC-4FA1-8BD0-1E2AAF494E56@techstrategies.com.au> Hi Jacque, An error code of 18 generally indicates that the server reported the transfer would be a certain length, and then it ended up being shorter or longer than expected. In your user?s case, it sounds like the actual downloaded amount is smaller than it should be? As you have said, given that other users are not having this issue, it doesn?t sound like a problem on the server end... Is there possibly a proxy being used that might be getting in the way? Regards, Charles > On 11 Dec 2017, at 7:34 am, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > A user is getting TSNet error 18 (transfer closed prematurely) when downloading a stack from a server on AWS. The same stack is working fine for virtually everyone else, so it's something on her end. We'd like to point her in the right direction, does anyone know why this might happen to a single user out of many, many others? > > She's running Windows 10 if that matters. Something must be cutting off the transmission, there's 556 bytes remaining to download when it stops. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at hyperhh.de Tue Dec 12 23:04:52 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:04:52 +0100 Subject: Tab alignment in fields Message-ID: WOW! And moreover HTML5 progress and LCB progress ... I have to cancel all my dates for the rest of the year. Thanks a lot Mark for that hint. > Mark Wieder wrote: > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6182 From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Dec 12 23:14:03 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:14:03 +1000 Subject: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval In-Reply-To: References: <26059A4F-8030-481E-9C62-4D82C392DA75@mindcrea.com> <000001d363d0$746b1ac0$5d415040$@net> <73BBFC0F-8DD3-4331-B7D0-0A010F9FDF7E@techstrategies.com.au> <14E979BF-AD60-4EB0-8495-30E83731B5F4@hindu.org> <2AAE4D7A-101A-4B0F-B477-7E26CB3FAC49@techstrategies.com.au> <07E309DD-8A96-42A1-937E-3DA132C6BCFC@hindu.org> <61BBB15B-DF17-4C17-B800-6BFCCA623F43@techstrategies.com.au> <00f501d36fb6$e127cf90$a3776eb0$@net> <85B75E12-6B4F-4461-979F-CFD3A5CA2A37@hindu.org> <007001d37068$3a902030$afb06090$@net> <00934B6C-B412-40BD-A705-AC1029810BED@hindu.org> Message-ID: <5B44EAB8-5C24-41CB-B899-E3C46F9149DF@techstrategies.com.au> BR, You can definitely monitor all of your connections that use tsNet by setting a status callback like you have mentioned below. The overhead of doing this will be determined by the amount of processing you do within the callback function. Cheers, Charles > On 11 Dec 2017, at 5:46 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > > @ Charles > > It would appear that perhaps there is a possible global approach that could cover a wide variety of net access conditions. > > am I being na?ve or could it be this simple? > > if we just have this running and available all the time > > tsNetSetTimeouts? [add your params here] > > tsNetSetStatusCallback "urlCallProgressUpdate" > > on urlCallProgressUpdate > # check the status of any and all URL download operations > # give user feedback in case connection drops or transfers speed drops below low limit > end urlCallProgressUpdate > > maybe that's really all that is needed. Then we don't worry about or code any kind of status monitoring into specific URL operations. > > One could "dynamically" change the time outs if different scenarios called for allowing longer time spans, i.e users expect a wait while downloading a "package" but they the don't when loading a web page. > > we might simply have this in back script for the whole app > > command toggleNetMonitor pBool > if pBool = "true" then > tsNetSetStatusCallback urlCallProgressUpdate > else > tsNetSetStatusCallback "" > end if > end toggleNetMonitor > > I don't know if there is any overhead to leaving this call back be live "24-7-365" in the app or not? but this way we could turn it on and off if that is better practice. > > BR > > > On 12/8/17, 5:08 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode" wrote: > > Ralph -- I sent this to you off list by mistake > > copying here FWIW if anyone is lurking. This all looks great and covers "download files" use cases > > The remaining puzzles are one off url calls from/for mobile controls : > > 1) remote path to audio.mp3; for player > 2) url web calls in browser widget to > a) web pages > b) youtube (video streaming) > > and how these play with TSNet, bandwidth dropping below set limits, or dropped connections. > > As yet mysterious?. > > > > > " wrote: > > BR, > > I async also works in iOS just fine and dandy. In My app I am getting the background images for cards while the user first logs in. Async allows the images to be downloaded in the background. This allows me to change images without releasing a new app without hanging the app up when I used blocking libURL. The implementation was so easy it was frightening. I also have 6 of these queued up and running at the same time! > > First is a utility(NetworkType) to check the type of networking and a tsNet initialization handler (EISinitTSnet): > > -------------------------------------------------------- > function GetNetworkType > local tLibUrlDriver > > try > put the behavior of stack"revLibUrl"into tLibUrlDriver > end try > if tLibUrlDriver is empty then > return "Sockets" > else > return "tsNet" > end if > > end GetNetworkType > > command NetworkType > if GetNetworkType() = "Sockets" then > answer"tsNet is disabled" > else > answer "tsNet in use"&cr&"Version==>"& tsNetVersion() > end if > end NetworkType > > command EISinitTSnet > local tResult > > try > tsNetInit > put the result into tResult > if tResult is not empty then > if tResult = "tsneterr: Already initialised" then > else > answer tResult > end if > else > tsNetSetTimeouts 60, 5000, 5000, 5000, 5, 10000 > end if > catch someerror > if IsInternalUser(true) then answer TranslateError(someerror) > end try > end EISinitTSnet > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Get_Path function below is a function returns paths that are transparent between IDE and mobile. (Richard G. I got sucked into the returning the trailing slash before I realized it was not the best way to do it). I hacked out this code so there could be an error but the basic idea is here. > > I call this first handler(StartBackgroundImageDownload) 12 time quickly and all the downloads work. The app is fully functional while the downloads are in progress. I use the filename as the pID. This makes things easy when the download completes. I have not tested timeouts yet. That's the next step, handling the in/out of network access/slow network speed. Standby.... > This is the guts of the asysnc file downloading: > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > command StartBackgroundImageDownload pImageName > local pHeaders, tStatus > > put tsNetGetFile(pImageName, Get_Path("Updates")&pImageName, \ > "https://xxx.com/someFolder/"& \ > urlencode(pImageName), pHeaders, "DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete") into tStatus-- start download > if tStatus is not empty then > answer tStatus > end if > > end StartBackgroundImageDownload > > on DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete pID, pResult, pBytes, pCurlCode > > local tData, tHeaders > > --answer "File==>"&pID&cr&"Bytes==>"&pBytes&cr&"Result==>"&pResult&cr&"CurlCode==>"&pCurlCode > > > if pCurlCode is not 0 then > > answer tsNetRetrError(pID) > else > if pResult = 404 then > answer "File'"&&pID&&"not found==>"&pBytes&&"Result==>"&pResult > delete file Get_Path("Updates")&pID -- delete file with 404 error in it > else > --answer "File==>"&pID&cr&"Bytes==>"&pBytes&cr&"Result==>"&pResult&cr&"CurlCode==>"&pCurlCode > if pBytes > 2000 then -- GOOD DOWNLOAD > rename file (Get_Path("Updates")&pID) to (Get_Path("BackgroundImages")&pID) -- file download complete > > --answer "File'"&&pID&&"has been downloaded. Result==>"&pResult > > else > answer "File'"&&pID&&"has been downloaded but is too small==>"&pBytes&&"Result==>"&pResult -- this was before I had the 404 check > delete file Get_Path("Updates")&pID > end if > end if > end if > > tsNetCloseConn pID > > > end DownLoadBackgroundImageComplete > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 2:21 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami > Subject: Re: libUrl tsNet and socketTimeoutInterval > > Awesome Ralph: > > Looks like we need to crowd fund Charles for documentation (smile) > > You are about 3 days ahead of me? can you post some code snippets of your methods? > > > > On 12/7/17, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" wrote: > > Ok, I just got async tsNet working in IDE and Android(Testing iOS later). I works great! Hat tip to all the contributors. One question and one Observation: > 1) How do you query the current tsNet timeout settings? I have quite a few places where I save the socketTimeoutInterval, set it to a new value, do something and then set it back to the saved timeout. I don't see a way to query this in the dictionary. > 2) I seems the you don't need to do a "tsNetInit" in the IDE. In the IDE one gets "tsneterr: Already initialized". On Android this error does not occur. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Tue Dec 12 23:37:15 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:37:15 +1100 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: References: <5EB99768-E4E6-4426-9A1E-5B16B2272B01@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <66796AE5-8D9E-47A6-B3B5-EB48175E8F5D@appisle.net> > On 13 Dec 2017, at 12:43 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 12/12/2017 05:14 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> Fraser?!? >> Are you back? Back to make libbrowser run on Raspi? :---))) > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6182 That PR is for Pi in general but works around the fact we don?t have a libcef build for Pi to use by just not adding a CEF browser factory. So libbrowser will work but do nothing. At the moment we use the distributed binaries for libcef (there is no Pi binary distributed) but if we did the work required to build it from source then we could feasibly support it because it can be built for Pi. That obviously comes with a fairly significant maintenance cost though. Cheers Monte From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Dec 13 00:22:02 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 23:22:02 -0600 Subject: TSNet error (18) In-Reply-To: <7932864A-9DEC-4FA1-8BD0-1E2AAF494E56@techstrategies.com.au> References: <46a33e55-c23c-aea2-01bc-d4def6c3fe7c@hyperactivesw.com> <7932864A-9DEC-4FA1-8BD0-1E2AAF494E56@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <1604e529090.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks for responding Charles. I had looked up the error but couldn't think what might cause it. I am trying to find out if there's a proxy involved but I'm pretty sure the user doesn't even know what that is. I also suggested they turn off any virus checker on the off chance that it's scanning downloads and truncating the data (though I don't know if that's how they work exactly.) I know the connection was closed and it isn't a timeout. If anyone can think of anything else that might be involved I'll suggest that too. It's a puzzle. Dozens of other users have no trouble with the same file. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 12, 2017 9:55:50 PM Charles Warwick via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Jacque, > > An error code of 18 generally indicates that the server reported the > transfer would be a certain length, and then it ended up being shorter or > longer than expected. > > In your user?s case, it sounds like the actual downloaded amount is smaller > than it should be? As you have said, given that other users are not having > this issue, it doesn?t sound like a problem on the server end... > > Is there possibly a proxy being used that might be getting in the way? > > Regards, > > Charles > >> On 11 Dec 2017, at 7:34 am, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> A user is getting TSNet error 18 (transfer closed prematurely) when >> downloading a stack from a server on AWS. The same stack is working fine >> for virtually everyone else, so it's something on her end. We'd like to >> point her in the right direction, does anyone know why this might happen to >> a single user out of many, many others? >> >> She's running Windows 10 if that matters. Something must be cutting off the >> transmission, there's 556 bytes remaining to download when it stops. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Dec 13 00:23:39 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:23:39 -0800 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: <66796AE5-8D9E-47A6-B3B5-EB48175E8F5D@appisle.net> References: <5EB99768-E4E6-4426-9A1E-5B16B2272B01@hyperhh.de> <66796AE5-8D9E-47A6-B3B5-EB48175E8F5D@appisle.net> Message-ID: On 12/12/2017 08:37 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 13 Dec 2017, at 12:43 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 12/12/2017 05:14 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: >>> Fraser?!? >>> Are you back? Back to make libbrowser run on Raspi? :---))) >> >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6182 > That PR is for Pi in general but works around the fact we don?t have a libcef build for Pi to use by just not adding a CEF browser factory. So libbrowser will work but do nothing. At the moment we use the distributed binaries for libcef (there is no Pi binary distributed) but if we did the work required to build it from source then we could feasibly support it because it can be built for Pi. That obviously comes with a fairly significant maintenance cost though. Yes, but... that's one of several PRs that Fraser committed in one fell swoop for better ARM support. I've been living without any CEF browser for months now, so not having one on the Pi isn't going to keep my enthusiasm in check. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Dec 13 00:24:53 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:24:53 -0800 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ef0d5ac-f1c3-c6c7-681b-6a169c8820c3@sonic.net> On 12/12/2017 08:04 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > I have to cancel all my dates for the rest of the year. Um... you *are* aware that that's a matter of about two weeks, right? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 03:48:27 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:48:27 +0200 Subject: videoClip In-Reply-To: <1604be96090.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4da71701-faeb-424f-a3ba-1c7662cb6343@gmail.com> <4c2b4bda-a3a0-e458-2afe-306d5d097d65@gmail.com> <29270189-2208-a074-7b59-c2cea8ad4ceb@gmail.com> <23322dd84be82155580b26660ab997ec@livecode.com> <1604be96090.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <334793a4-e5db-ea1f-2261-f119b101e4ab@gmail.com> Not portative or portable, but something I'm bl**dy proud of as I worked the thing out in about 30 minutes during a lunchbreak: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30295 Richmond. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Dec 13 08:39:35 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 08:39:35 -0500 Subject: Website scraping - How can I load a 'partial' page? Message-ID: I have a webpage that I grab with LiveCode, then parse out what I need. The data I keep is within the first 1/4th of the page. Rather than loading the entire page into a variable or a browser object, how can I load just the portion that I need and then stop the transmission instead of wasting the time and bandwidth to load the entire page? ~Roger From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 10:39:41 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 08:39:41 -0700 Subject: Website scraping - How can I load a 'partial' page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I suppose one could use sockets and partial GET requests (using a range: header), but i suspect it would be easier to just use an intermediary server to handle things. To test, I set up an extremely simple page with the following: To use this is a simple-- get URL " http://path.to.my.page.com/scrape.lc?page=http://server.to.scrape.com/pagetoscrape.html " if the page to be scraped uses a get style request, it will might be better to use post instead. In this way you can use a server on a hot connect to do the heavy lifting and then just send the results back down. In fact, you could probably have the server itself do the scraping and just return any final results (or pop the results into a database or whatever) Also in fact, if you have enough control of the server, and need to scrape the same page over and over for changes you could most likely set up a cronjob to do the work and a front end to pull the results. (don't know what your final objective is, so hard to say whats best) On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I have a webpage that I grab with LiveCode, then parse out what I need. > The data I keep is within the first 1/4th of the page. > > Rather than loading the entire page into a variable or a browser object, > how can I load just the portion that I need and then stop the transmission > instead of wasting the time and bandwidth to load the entire page? > > ~Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 13 11:04:32 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:04:32 +0000 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: <20dc4cf8-f5eb-6480-ef4e-0fff9567e002@hyperactivesw.com> References: <3D72C4D3-59F8-4CD8-BD08-A4D7BCEF2728@hindu.org> <5abb461f-44cc-b8a3-266d-8c4a0e48c817@livecode.com> <20dc4cf8-f5eb-6480-ef4e-0fff9567e002@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3101F2B5-C547-4AD8-BD03-E4F0F7B4232D@iotecdigital.com> That's only for multi-dimensional tab stops. Bob S > On Dec 12, 2017, at 16:34 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I was working with this recently. The dictionary says "The tabAlign of a field is a return delimited list of alignments, separated by commas." > > How is a return delimited list separated by commas? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Dec 13 11:05:23 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:05:23 -0500 Subject: Website scraping - How can I load a 'partial' page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41F93056-4F0D-415C-A3D2-32BCB6CC5D13@all-auctions.com> Hi Roger, I don?t know who?s webpage is that you are scraping, but if it is a third party?s webpage make sure that you are not violating their terms of agreement or infringing on their copyright. You might want to ask for their permission to do so, to make sure you are safe and legal. If it is your own webpage, then feel perfectly at ease scraping away. Cheers, Rick > On Dec 13, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > > I have a webpage that I grab with LiveCode, then parse out what I need. > The data I keep is within the first 1/4th of the page. > > Rather than loading the entire page into a variable or a browser object, > how can I load just the portion that I need and then stop the transmission > instead of wasting the time and bandwidth to load the entire page? > > ~Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 13 11:05:41 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:05:41 +0000 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: That was the joke I was making. I thot everyone would get it. ;-) Bob S > On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:09 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > You mean, like the Start Center? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 13 11:10:33 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:10:33 +0000 Subject: TSNet error (18) In-Reply-To: <1604e529090.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <46a33e55-c23c-aea2-01bc-d4def6c3fe7c@hyperactivesw.com> <7932864A-9DEC-4FA1-8BD0-1E2AAF494E56@techstrategies.com.au> <1604e529090.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Interesting take. We recently had an auto-updater fail for some prospect farming software we use called Compass Sherpa. After investigating it turns out our router anti-malware was detecting a false positive and stopping the download part way through. The updater, apparently unaware something went wrong, dutifully replaced the old functional executable with the partially downloaded one, and borked the install. Bob S > On Dec 12, 2017, at 21:22 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for responding Charles. I had looked up the error but couldn't think what might cause it. I am trying to find out if there's a proxy involved but I'm pretty sure the user doesn't even know what that is. I also suggested they turn off any virus checker on the off chance that it's scanning downloads and truncating the data (though I don't know if that's how they work exactly.) I know the connection was closed and it isn't a timeout. > > If anyone can think of anything else that might be involved I'll suggest that too. It's a puzzle. Dozens of other users have no trouble with the same file. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 11:23:59 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:23:59 -0700 Subject: Website scraping - How can I load a 'partial' page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hmm, or use range as mentioned in my other mail. If the server supports range requests you can set your headers to include-- Range: bytes=0-2000 to get the first 2000 bytes. or use curl with -r 0-2000 but i have yet to find a page that will return only a range. Apparently you can find out if a page will accept ranges using curl with something like this.. curl -I http://i.imgur.com/z4d4kWk.jpg HTTP/1.1 200 OK ... Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 146515 if it has "Accept=Ranges: bytes" as part of the response, it should work. I'm still thinking the intermediary method is best. On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > I suppose one could use sockets and partial GET requests (using a range: > header), but i suspect it would be easier to just use an intermediary > server to handle things. To test, I set up an extremely simple page with > the following: > > put $_GET["page"] into tPage -- a get request TO my pageof the form ?page= > http://url.goes.here > put char 1 to 6000 of url tpage -- request the page to be scraped and > return the first 6000 chars > > ?> > To use this is a simple-- get URL "http://path.to.my.page.com/ > scrape.lc?page=http://server.to.scrape.com/pagetoscrape.html" > > if the page to be scraped uses a get style request, it will might be > better to use post instead. > > In this way you can use a server on a hot connect to do the heavy lifting > and then just send the results back down. In fact, you could probably have > the server itself do the scraping and just return any final results (or pop > the results into a database or whatever) Also in fact, if you have enough > control of the server, and need to scrape the same page over and over for > changes you could most likely set up a cronjob to do the work and a front > end to pull the results. (don't know what your final objective is, so hard > to say whats best) > > > > On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I have a webpage that I grab with LiveCode, then parse out what I need. >> The data I keep is within the first 1/4th of the page. >> >> Rather than loading the entire page into a variable or a browser object, >> how can I load just the portion that I need and then stop the transmission >> instead of wasting the time and bandwidth to load the entire page? >> >> ~Roger >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Dec 13 12:33:00 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:33:00 -0600 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <16050efc8e0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Yeshterday I had shome eggnog and I mished two jokesh. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 13, 2017 10:07:49 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > That was the joke I was making. I thot everyone would get it. ;-) > > Bob S > > >> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:09 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> You mean, like the Start Center? >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 12:40:29 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:40:29 +0200 Subject: Script Editor problem In-Reply-To: <16050efc8e0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <36a15051-0ff4-1caa-1574-c38ebd94e844@gmail.com> <1513068906097-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <16050efc8e0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <12e951db-6ba6-2fec-ba19-9cff66b9d194@gmail.com> Limoncello . . . Richmond. On 13/12/17 7:33 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Yeshterday I had shome eggnog and I mished two jokesh. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On December 13, 2017 10:07:49 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: > >> That was the joke I was making. I thot everyone would get it. ;-) >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:09 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> You mean, like the Start Center? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 13 13:57:35 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:57:35 -0800 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <106d919e-59fc-da53-d4ec-2816f55727e1@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 12/12/2017 08:37 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: >> On 13 Dec 2017, at 12:43 pm, Mark Wieder wrote: >> On 12/12/2017 05:14 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Fraser?!? >>>> Are you back? Back to make libbrowser run on Raspi? :---))) >>> >>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6182 > >> That PR is for Pi in general but works around the fact we don?t have >> a libcef build for Pi to use by just not adding a CEF browser >> factory. So libbrowser will work but do nothing. At the moment we use >> the distributed binaries for libcef (there is no Pi binary >> distributed) but if we did the work required to build it from source >> then we could feasibly support it because it can be built for Pi. >> That obviously comes with a fairly significant maintenance cost >> though. > > Yes, but... that's one of several PRs that Fraser committed in one > fell swoop for better ARM support. I've been living without any CEF > browser for months now, so not having one on the Pi isn't going to > keep my enthusiasm in check. I haven't been watching GH so I'm not familiar with those PRs. Before I get too excited, what does this mean for the LC RPi build? Will this become an officially supported platform with v9? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Wed Dec 13 14:04:02 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:04:02 +0100 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: <106d919e-59fc-da53-d4ec-2816f55727e1@fourthworld.com> References: <106d919e-59fc-da53-d4ec-2816f55727e1@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0c7c522126811664b022323dca2f9022@livecode.com> On 2017-12-13 19:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > I haven't been watching GH so I'm not familiar with those PRs. Before > I get too excited, what does this mean for the LC RPi build? Will > this become an officially supported platform with v9? Not for v9 - but some point next year (hopefully the first half!). The PRs to make it build are one side of the story, there's also a fair bit of infrastructure work to do to (i.e. updating vulcan with the necessary builders so we can build RPi along with all the other platforms). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 13 14:05:38 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:05:38 -0800 Subject: Tab alignment in fields In-Reply-To: <0c7c522126811664b022323dca2f9022@livecode.com> References: <0c7c522126811664b022323dca2f9022@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5936a1d4-c174-4c00-a3e0-4f03fdf08837@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2017-12-13 19:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> I haven't been watching GH so I'm not familiar with those PRs. >> Before I get too excited, what does this mean for the LC RPi build? >> Will this become an officially supported platform with v9? > > Not for v9 - but some point next year (hopefully the first half!). > > The PRs to make it build are one side of the story, there's also a > fair bit of infrastructure work to do to (i.e. updating vulcan with > the necessary builders so we can build RPi along with all the other > platforms). Very exciting indeed. Thanks for that background. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From johnpatten at me.com Wed Dec 13 16:22:37 2017 From: johnpatten at me.com (JOHN PATTEN) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:22:37 -0800 Subject: Questions re: Michael McCreary Database Wizardry from LCGlobal? Message-ID: Hello all! I am trying to decipher Michael McCreary?s database wizardry form the Livecode conference. Starting by duplicating what he had created with his Notes cloud app, but just using my own on-rev account and my mysql db. His Notes app works fine when it is pointing to his on-rev/mysql db, but when I try to duplicate what he is done, my notes app opens fine, but under the drop down menu, in the categories area, I am getting a ?tsneterr: HTTP response code 404 returned from server.? I?m guessing it is not seeing my .lc files on my on-rev directory??? I also can?t create any new notes, obviously. I have made the change in the sub stack libDataLayer for the constant kAPIURL = ? to point to my on-rev and directory. I have also made the change on the .lc server file, libDataLayer.lc, within the libs folder, so that it is using my mysql db, username and password. However, I must be still missing changes to make this work on my own mysql db. His use of db libraries in that example blew my mind, and I would like to learn how to do that myself, but I?m having trouble just trying to get ?off the blocks.? :) Are there more script changes in his example that need to be done in order for me to duplicate his Notes app on my on-rev account? Thank you! John Patten SUSD From james at thehales.id.au Wed Dec 13 19:30:55 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:30:55 +1100 Subject: Dash Docs and Docset Creator updates. Message-ID: I have just updated the Dash Docset to version 1.2 and the Dash Docset maker (Dash docset creator for LiveCode ) to 2.2 The main change is to include a linked summary of all messages and properties associated with the object entries within the dictionary. This is to match what the IDE dictionary provides (only just realised.) For those using Dash or one of its variants, the updated docset (LiveCode 1.2) should be available for auto or manual update/download. James From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 13 19:35:28 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:35:28 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? Message-ID: I am trying to rename a folder using this command: rename folder "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/Childrens Law Center/201/" to "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/bobtest/201/" and it fails with no errors in a try catch statement. I know I have permissions because this is the folders structure I create forms in all the time. Any ideas? MacOS 10.13.1 LC 8.1.8 Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 13 19:48:59 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:48:59 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried revMoveFolder too and that also failed. Bob S > On Dec 13, 2017, at 16:35 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I am trying to rename a folder using this command: > > rename folder "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/Childrens Law Center/201/" to "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/bobtest/201/" and it fails with no errors in a try catch statement. I know I have permissions because this is the folders structure I create forms in all the time. > > Any ideas? MacOS 10.13.1 LC 8.1.8 > > Bob S > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Dec 13 19:49:09 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:49:09 -0800 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> On 12/13/2017 04:35 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I am trying to rename a folder using this command: > > rename folder "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/Childrens Law Center/201/" to "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/bobtest/201/" and it fails with no errors in a try catch statement. I know I have permissions because this is the folders structure I create forms in all the time. > > Any ideas? MacOS 10.13.1 LC 8.1.8 I don't think you can rename anything other than the endpoint. Try rename folder "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/Childrens Law Center" to "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/bobtest" -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 13 19:57:17 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:57:17 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> Message-ID: <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting like it will only move folders a certain level deep. Bob S > On Dec 13, 2017, at 16:49 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 12/13/2017 04:35 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> I am trying to rename a folder using this command: >> rename folder "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/Childrens Law Center/201/" to "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/bobtest/201/" and it fails with no errors in a try catch statement. I know I have permissions because this is the folders structure I create forms in all the time. >> Any ideas? MacOS 10.13.1 LC 8.1.8 > > I don't think you can rename anything other than the endpoint. Try > > rename folder "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/Childrens Law Center" to "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/bobtest" > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 13 20:00:51 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 01:00:51 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Yup just confirmed won't go more than 5 levels deep. Bob S > On Dec 13, 2017, at 16:57 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting like it will only move folders a certain level deep. > > Bob S > > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Dec 13 20:04:46 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:04:46 -0800 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On 12/13/2017 04:57 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting like it will only move folders a certain level deep. Not sure what you mean. Renaming doesn't copy anything. Did you intend to rename the "201" folder instead? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 20:07:38 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 18:07:38 -0700 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Is "Childrens Law Center" the 5th level? Possibly a problem due to the spaces in the folder name? On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yup just confirmed won't go more than 5 levels deep. > > Bob S > > > > On Dec 13, 2017, at 16:57 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I > didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even > added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting > like it will only move folders a certain level deep. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From james at thehales.id.au Thu Dec 14 01:48:13 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:48:13 +1100 Subject: Update to FMaker utility stack Message-ID: FMaker - a utility to make folders based on a list. Updated FMaker to use "revCopyFile" rather than when moving files to newly created folder. This means the files do not need to be read into memory to be moved. This speeds up the process considerably, especially if you are moving large files, or the files reside on a network drive. To access go to livecodeshare or click on the "sample stacks" button on toolbar in IDE. The name of the stack is "FMaker" James From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 14 10:30:56 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:30:56 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: OK Mark I think Isee what you are saying. it will only change the ENDPOINT folder name, and because the ENDPOINT folder name is the same it fails. I think this has to be a bug. Bob S > On Dec 13, 2017, at 17:00 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Yup just confirmed won't go more than 5 levels deep. > > Bob S > > >> On Dec 13, 2017, at 16:57 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting like it will only move folders a certain level deep. >> >> Bob S >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 14 10:38:14 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:38:14 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> I am actually trying to MOVE a folder from one location to another. The 201 folder is the folder where all the forms for a site go, and that is inside a Customer folder containing all the site folders. Inside the site folder there may be device folders where the forms specific to a device go. It looks like this: Installs ...Customer 1 ......Site 1 .........Device 1 .........Device 2 ......Site 2 .........Device 3 .........Device 4 ...Customer 2 and so on. I have a feature where I can transfer a device to another site, and a site to another customer. An odd notion until you relize how often data entry people enter duplicates because of spelling changes on the input form or simply because they don't want to take the time to search properly. Having transferred the Site in the database to the correct customer, I now need to move the site folder to another customer. renameFolder seems to be the only mechanism in place to do this, but apparently will only rename the ENDPOINT and NOT a SUBFOLDER of the ENDPOINT. My opinion is it ought to do either. Bob S > On Dec 13, 2017, at 17:04 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 12/13/2017 04:57 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting like it will only move folders a certain level deep. > > Not sure what you mean. > Renaming doesn't copy anything. > Did you intend to rename the "201" folder instead? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 14 10:45:40 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:45:40 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Okay looks like I need to copyFolder, then deleteFolder after checking the result. Bob S > On Dec 14, 2017, at 07:38 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I am actually trying to MOVE a folder from one location to another. The 201 folder is the folder where all the forms for a site go, and that is inside a Customer folder containing all the site folders. Inside the site folder there may be device folders where the forms specific to a device go. It looks like this: > > Installs > ...Customer 1 > ......Site 1 > .........Device 1 > .........Device 2 > ......Site 2 > .........Device 3 > .........Device 4 > ...Customer 2 > > and so on. I have a feature where I can transfer a device to another site, and a site to another customer. An odd notion until you relize how often data entry people enter duplicates because of spelling changes on the input form or simply because they don't want to take the time to search properly. > > Having transferred the Site in the database to the correct customer, I now need to move the site folder to another customer. renameFolder seems to be the only mechanism in place to do this, but apparently will only rename the ENDPOINT and NOT a SUBFOLDER of the ENDPOINT. My opinion is it ought to do either. > > Bob S > > >> On Dec 13, 2017, at 17:04 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 12/13/2017 04:57 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>> Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting like it will only move folders a certain level deep. >> >> Not sure what you mean. >> Renaming doesn't copy anything. >> Did you intend to rename the "201" folder instead? >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 14 11:14:22 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:14:22 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> looks like revCopyFile will do a 1 minute beachball before timing out if the path does not exist. So I need to check for the existence of the folder path first. Trouble with that is if folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/" does not exist I cannot simply say create folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/site2/" Create folder will only create one folder level at a time. I have to iterate through individual folders like so: if not there is a folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/" then create folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/" if not there is a folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/" then create folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/" if not there is a folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/site2/" then create folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/site2/" NOW I can: revCopyFolder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer1/site2/device5/", "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/site2/device5/" revDeleteFolder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer1/site2/device5/" I suppose it can't really be easier otherwise you risk destroying entire folder structures with a mistyped command. This is the best arguement I know for storing documents in the database instead of the file system. I'm strongly considering that now. Bob S > On Dec 14, 2017, at 07:45 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay looks like I need to copyFolder, then deleteFolder after checking the result. > > Bob S > > >> On Dec 14, 2017, at 07:38 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am actually trying to MOVE a folder from one location to another. The 201 folder is the folder where all the forms for a site go, and that is inside a Customer folder containing all the site folders. Inside the site folder there may be device folders where the forms specific to a device go. It looks like this: >> >> Installs >> ...Customer 1 >> ......Site 1 >> .........Device 1 >> .........Device 2 >> ......Site 2 >> .........Device 3 >> .........Device 4 >> ...Customer 2 >> >> and so on. I have a feature where I can transfer a device to another site, and a site to another customer. An odd notion until you relize how often data entry people enter duplicates because of spelling changes on the input form or simply because they don't want to take the time to search properly. >> >> Having transferred the Site in the database to the correct customer, I now need to move the site folder to another customer. renameFolder seems to be the only mechanism in place to do this, but apparently will only rename the ENDPOINT and NOT a SUBFOLDER of the ENDPOINT. My opinion is it ought to do either. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 17:04 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 12/13/2017 04:57 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting like it will only move folders a certain level deep. >>> >>> Not sure what you mean. >>> Renaming doesn't copy anything. >>> Did you intend to rename the "201" folder instead? >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 11:22:19 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:22:19 -0700 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Can you use shell? mv to move a folder or cp -R and do a recursive copy? >From reading the dictionary, it does seem that your first example should work if the intention is to move the 201 folder from "Childrens Law Center" to folder "bobtest" assuming bobtest already exists, and folder 201 doesn't pre-exist in that folder. (No clue how "clobbers" are handled with rename when its used to move stuff) On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > looks like revCopyFile will do a 1 minute beachball before timing > out if the path does not exist. So I need to check for the existence of the > folder path first. Trouble with that is if folder > "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/" does not exist I cannot simply say > > create folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/site2/" > > Create folder will only create one folder level at a time. I have to > iterate through individual folders like so: > > if not there is a folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/" then create folder > "/users/bobsneidar/installs/" > if not there is a folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/" then > create folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/" > if not there is a folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/site2/" > then create folder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/site2/" > > NOW I can: > > revCopyFolder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer1/site2/device5/", > "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer2/site2/device5/" > revDeleteFolder "/users/bobsneidar/installs/customer1/site2/device5/" > > I suppose it can't really be easier otherwise you risk destroying entire > folder structures with a mistyped command. > > This is the best arguement I know for storing documents in the database > instead of the file system. I'm strongly considering that now. > > Bob S > > > > On Dec 14, 2017, at 07:45 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Okay looks like I need to copyFolder, then deleteFolder after checking > the result. > > > > Bob S > > > > > >> On Dec 14, 2017, at 07:38 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> I am actually trying to MOVE a folder from one location to another. The > 201 folder is the folder where all the forms for a site go, and that is > inside a Customer folder containing all the site folders. Inside the site > folder there may be device folders where the forms specific to a device go. > It looks like this: > >> > >> Installs > >> ...Customer 1 > >> ......Site 1 > >> .........Device 1 > >> .........Device 2 > >> ......Site 2 > >> .........Device 3 > >> .........Device 4 > >> ...Customer 2 > >> > >> and so on. I have a feature where I can transfer a device to another > site, and a site to another customer. An odd notion until you relize how > often data entry people enter duplicates because of spelling changes on the > input form or simply because they don't want to take the time to search > properly. > >> > >> Having transferred the Site in the database to the correct customer, I > now need to move the site folder to another customer. renameFolder seems to > be the only mechanism in place to do this, but apparently will only rename > the ENDPOINT and NOT a SUBFOLDER of the ENDPOINT. My opinion is it ought to > do either. > >> > >> Bob S > >> > >> > >>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 17:04 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> On 12/13/2017 04:57 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > >>>> Thanks Mark. "201" WAS the endpoint. Your suggestion worked! But I > didn't want to copy the whole folder just one of it's subfolders. I even > added other folders and tried to move that, but it failed. It is acting > like it will only move folders a certain level deep. > >>> > >>> Not sure what you mean. > >>> Renaming doesn't copy anything. > >>> Did you intend to rename the "201" folder instead? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Mark Wieder > >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 14 11:28:15 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:28:15 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <86AEBC4A-2323-4F4B-AAB4-A5BAA06E4568@iotecdigital.com> For Mac sure. Then I need to deal with Windows. But it's my understanding that the rev commands for files use shell anyway, so the work has at least partly been done. But looking at the rev commands it appears there is a revMoveFolder! Lemme try that one. Bob S > On Dec 14, 2017, at 08:22 , Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > Can you use shell? mv to move a folder or cp -R and do a recursive copy? > > From reading the dictionary, it does seem that your first example should > work if the intention is to move the 201 folder from "Childrens Law Center" > to folder "bobtest" assuming bobtest already exists, and folder 201 doesn't > pre-exist in that folder. (No clue how "clobbers" are handled with rename > when its used to move stuff) From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 14 11:52:03 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:52:03 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: <86AEBC4A-2323-4F4B-AAB4-A5BAA06E4568@iotecdigital.com> References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> <86AEBC4A-2323-4F4B-AAB4-A5BAA06E4568@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Okay it looks like the revMoveFolder suffers from the same problem that renameFolder does: It only works on the endpoint. CRAP! Why so difficult? I'll come up with a workaround I suppose, or else start saving filled forms in the database itself. Thanks all for your help. Bob S > On Dec 14, 2017, at 08:28 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > For Mac sure. Then I need to deal with Windows. But it's my understanding that the rev commands for files use shell anyway, so the work has at least partly been done. But looking at the rev commands it appears there is a revMoveFolder! Lemme try that one. > > Bob S > > > >> On Dec 14, 2017, at 08:22 , Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Can you use shell? mv to move a folder or cp -R and do a recursive copy? >> >> From reading the dictionary, it does seem that your first example should >> work if the intention is to move the 201 folder from "Childrens Law Center" >> to folder "bobtest" assuming bobtest already exists, and folder 201 doesn't >> pre-exist in that folder. (No clue how "clobbers" are handled with rename >> when its used to move stuff) > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Thu Dec 14 12:02:40 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:02:40 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> <86AEBC4A-2323-4F4B-AAB4-A5BAA06E4568@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Write yourself (or check if the Master Library already has) a little function ?ensureFolderExists pPathName which will iterate down the elements of the path, checking htey exist, or creating if need be. (I *know* I have one somewhere - but it would be faster to re-write than to find :-) Then use that before the revCopyFolder Alex On 14/12/2017 16:52, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Okay it looks like the revMoveFolder suffers from the same problem that renameFolder does: It only works on the endpoint. CRAP! Why so difficult? I'll come up with a workaround I suppose, or else start saving filled forms in the database itself. > > Thanks all for your help. > > Bob S > > >> On Dec 14, 2017, at 08:28 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> For Mac sure. Then I need to deal with Windows. But it's my understanding that the rev commands for files use shell anyway, so the work has at least partly been done. But looking at the rev commands it appears there is a revMoveFolder! Lemme try that one. >> >> Bob S >> >> >> >>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 08:22 , Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Can you use shell? mv to move a folder or cp -R and do a recursive copy? >>> >>> From reading the dictionary, it does seem that your first example should >>> work if the intention is to move the 201 folder from "Childrens Law Center" >>> to folder "bobtest" assuming bobtest already exists, and folder 201 doesn't >>> pre-exist in that folder. (No clue how "clobbers" are handled with rename >>> when its used to move stuff) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Dec 14 13:31:24 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:31:24 -0600 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> <86AEBC4A-2323-4F4B-AAB4-A5BAA06E4568@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I'd saved this one: on revSBEnsureFolder pFolder set the itemDel to "/" if there is no folder pFolder and pFolder is not empty then revSBEnsureFolder item 1 to -2 of pFolder if the result is not empty then return the result create folder pFolder return the result end if end revSBEnsureFolder On 12/14/17 11:02 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > Write yourself (or check if the Master Library already has) a little > function > > ?ensureFolderExists pPathName > > which will iterate down the elements of the path, checking htey exist, > or creating if need be. > > (I *know* I have one somewhere - but it would be faster to re-write than > to find :-) > > Then use that before the revCopyFolder > > Alex > > > On 14/12/2017 16:52, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> Okay it looks like the revMoveFolder suffers from the same problem >> that renameFolder does: It only works on the endpoint. CRAP! Why so >> difficult? I'll come up with a workaround I suppose, or else start >> saving filled forms in the database itself. >> >> Thanks all for your help. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 08:28 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> For Mac sure. Then I need to deal with Windows. But it's my >>> understanding that the rev commands for files use shell anyway, so >>> the work has at least partly been done. But looking at the rev >>> commands it appears there is a revMoveFolder! Lemme try that one. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 08:22 , Mike Bonner via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Can you use shell?? mv to move a folder or cp -R and do a recursive >>>> copy? >>>> >>>> ?From reading the dictionary, it does seem that your first example >>>> should >>>> work if the intention is to move the 201 folder from "Childrens Law >>>> Center" >>>> to folder "bobtest" assuming bobtest already exists, and folder 201 >>>> doesn't >>>> pre-exist in that folder. (No clue how "clobbers" are handled with >>>> rename >>>> when its used to move stuff) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 14 13:35:19 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:35:19 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> <86AEBC4A-2323-4F4B-AAB4-A5BAA06E4568@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <69A99C02-7467-41A5-8691-427C2DC21902@iotecdigital.com> Hey that's a good one. Bob S > On Dec 14, 2017, at 10:31 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I'd saved this one: > > on revSBEnsureFolder pFolder > set the itemDel to "/" > if there is no folder pFolder and pFolder is not empty then > revSBEnsureFolder item 1 to -2 of pFolder > if the result is not empty then return the result > create folder pFolder > return the result > end if > end revSBEnsureFolder > > On 12/14/17 11:02 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >> Write yourself (or check if the Master Library already has) a little function >> ensureFolderExists pPathName >> which will iterate down the elements of the path, checking htey exist, or creating if need be. >> (I *know* I have one somewhere - but it would be faster to re-write than to find :-) >> Then use that before the revCopyFolder >> Alex From brian at milby7.com Thu Dec 14 15:33:58 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:33:58 +0000 Subject: rename folder not working? In-Reply-To: <69A99C02-7467-41A5-8691-427C2DC21902@iotecdigital.com> References: <2e77fa29-acec-fcc7-3574-8fb8bdf50e49@sonic.net> <7DAECAD8-28C7-4570-A437-C56AF5322179@iotecdigital.com> <28A32F5B-4F9E-4098-A7F7-32E7378F3242@iotecdigital.com> <8D1420FE-46E4-4714-B456-DB92D73F381C@iotecdigital.com> <86AEBC4A-2323-4F4B-AAB4-A5BAA06E4568@iotecdigital.com> <69A99C02-7467-41A5-8691-427C2DC21902@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Did you try: revMoveFolder "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/Childrens Law Center/201", "/Users/bobsneidar/Documents/Installs/bobtest" This should move ?201? from point a to b. For non-win32 it just uses the mv shell command anyway. (mv does not like ~ though). Also, you can get the result and a ?1? will mean there was a problem with the command (on OS X anyway). On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:35 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hey that's a good one. > > Bob S > > > > On Dec 14, 2017, at 10:31 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I'd saved this one: > > > > on revSBEnsureFolder pFolder > > set the itemDel to "/" > > if there is no folder pFolder and pFolder is not empty then > > revSBEnsureFolder item 1 to -2 of pFolder > > if the result is not empty then return the result > > create folder pFolder > > return the result > > end if > > end revSBEnsureFolder > > > > On 12/14/17 11:02 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > >> Write yourself (or check if the Master Library already has) a little > function > >> ensureFolderExists pPathName > >> which will iterate down the elements of the path, checking htey exist, > or creating if need be. > >> (I *know* I have one somewhere - but it would be faster to re-write > than to find :-) > >> Then use that before the revCopyFolder > >> Alex > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Dec 15 10:29:04 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:29:04 -0500 Subject: Revigniter Sessions Message-ID: Hi everyone, this may be a dumb question.....but When I download a URL (from inside LC Standalone), which is a (LC Server Page) that generates a cookie, where does the cookie get saved? Is it accessible to me? I'm working on integrating LC Standalone with a Postgress DB via LC Server. I'd like to have session control, but the Revigniter Documentation just assumes that the person is browsing the site using a regular browser. I'd like to download database query results straight from my standalone. Hope my question makes sense Thanks Tom From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Dec 15 10:33:32 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:33:32 +0000 Subject: Revigniter Sessions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F848340-56D3-4B1E-995F-575086EE02E8@iotecdigital.com> If the LC browser doesn't support cookies, probably nowhere. Session cookies are kept in memory, and therefore likely inaccessible. Bob S > On Dec 15, 2017, at 07:29 , Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi everyone, this may be a dumb question.....but > > When I download a URL (from inside LC Standalone), which is a (LC Server > Page) that generates a cookie, where does the cookie get saved? Is it > accessible to me? > I'm working on integrating LC Standalone with a Postgress DB via LC > Server. I'd like to have session control, but the Revigniter Documentation > just assumes that the person is browsing the site using a regular browser. > I'd like to download database query results straight from my standalone. > > Hope my question makes sense > > Thanks > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Dec 15 10:42:16 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:42:16 -0500 Subject: Revigniter Sessions In-Reply-To: <2F848340-56D3-4B1E-995F-575086EE02E8@iotecdigital.com> References: <2F848340-56D3-4B1E-995F-575086EE02E8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Thanks Bob, thats what I suspected as well....I guess I have to create my own session handler, or maybe I can still user rev-igniter's session handling via database only and ignore the cookie....we shall see. On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > If the LC browser doesn't support cookies, probably nowhere. Session > cookies are kept in memory, and therefore likely inaccessible. > > Bob S > > > > On Dec 15, 2017, at 07:29 , Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, this may be a dumb question.....but > > > > When I download a URL (from inside LC Standalone), which is a (LC Server > > Page) that generates a cookie, where does the cookie get saved? Is it > > accessible to me? > > I'm working on integrating LC Standalone with a Postgress DB via LC > > Server. I'd like to have session control, but the Revigniter > Documentation > > just assumes that the person is browsing the site using a regular > browser. > > I'd like to download database query results straight from my standalone. > > > > Hope my question makes sense > > > > Thanks > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com Fri Dec 15 12:19:10 2017 From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:19:10 +0000 Subject: RESTful PUT error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20171215171910.Horde.8jaUqubQKWdep1LQh1yUUU6@ua850258.serversignin.com> I tried suggestions from several users (on and off the list), but nothing has worked for me. After contacting Pipedrive tech support, I got the typical IT response of "it works for us" as they blamed LiveCode. They suggested that somehow using regex would fix the issue, but I'm not sure how that would even apply here (their API is telling me the characters are disallowed, not LC). Using tsNet calls gave me the same errors as libURL from LC (8.2dp2 and 9.0dp10). httpHeaders: {"Accept":"application/json"} JSON being POSTed (not PUT as their API requests): {"phone":"555-555-5555"} URL being POSTed to (includes my API key for a test account): https://api.pipedrive.com/v1/persons/1?api_token=ce95ed7f11e167194b0b4a6f6f1032df4fa13792 Reply from their support team: I checked with our engineers regarding the "Disallowed Key Characters" message, and they believe this is related to your code editor of choice. Some additional programming may be necessary to include these "disallowed" characters. They also tested updating the phone value themselves via API, and were successful. For more reference on this issue, they also recommend the following resources: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4197976/codeigniter-disallowed-key-characters http://www.darwinbiler.com/disallowed-key-characters-in-codeigniter/ --Andrew Bell From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 15:59:46 2017 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:59:46 -0500 Subject: At this point, what's the shortest path to an iOS/Android app? Message-ID: I have an app that I want to put into the app stores. I don't want to charge for it. It's a super simple memory game, it took just a few hours to build. There's nothing complex about it, just a handful of buttons, a few fields, and a couple sliders. It's been a while since I investigated -- If I want to turn it into something that works just in portrait, but works for various phones and iPads, etc., what's the simplest path to that goal? Is there a ready-made shell that people prefer that I should copy the elements of the app into? Or is there a mobile-specific library that I should be copying into the app? What do people prefer to use at this point? thx gc From alex at tweedly.net Fri Dec 15 18:57:26 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 23:57:26 +0000 Subject: Revigniter Sessions In-Reply-To: References: <2F848340-56D3-4B1E-995F-575086EE02E8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hold on - you guys are getting confused - or maybe you're just getting me confused :-) :-) On the server side, Tom wants to use revIgniter session support - that should be just fine. revIgniter (or indeed LC Server) doesn't know, or care, if you are using a standard browser, a revBrowser inside an LC app, or just get/put URLs from an LC app. On the client side, Tom (I think) wants to use an LC App - not sure whether he wants a revbroswer, or if he just wants to do "get URL" etc. If it is the former (i.e. revBrowser) then I have no clue :-) If it is "just" an LC app, then everything is fine - so long as the app handles cookies, and session cookies, just like a browser would. Therefore, when you retrieve a URL from the site, you should check the headers - using libURLLastRHeaders() - to see what cookies are being set; and when you make subsequent requests you need to set that cookie/value in the http headers you are sending. see http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2008-July/112454.html for a brief description. There ought to be a library to help, but I couldn't find one. Alex. On 15/12/2017 15:42, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks Bob, thats what I suspected as well....I guess I have to create my > own session handler, or maybe I can still user rev-igniter's session > handling via database only and ignore the cookie....we shall see. > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> If the LC browser doesn't support cookies, probably nowhere. Session >> cookies are kept in memory, and therefore likely inaccessible. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Dec 15, 2017, at 07:29 , Tom Glod via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> Hi everyone, this may be a dumb question.....but >>> >>> When I download a URL (from inside LC Standalone), which is a (LC Server >>> Page) that generates a cookie, where does the cookie get saved? Is it >>> accessible to me? >>> I'm working on integrating LC Standalone with a Postgress DB via LC >>> Server. I'd like to have session control, but the Revigniter >> Documentation >>> just assumes that the person is browsing the site using a regular >> browser. >>> I'd like to download database query results straight from my standalone. >>> >>> Hope my question makes sense >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Tom >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Dec 15 19:25:26 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 00:25:26 +0000 Subject: RESTful PUT error In-Reply-To: <20171215171910.Horde.8jaUqubQKWdep1LQh1yUUU6@ua850258.serversignin.com> References: <20171215171910.Horde.8jaUqubQKWdep1LQh1yUUU6@ua850258.serversignin.com> Message-ID: <39080d4a-9f8b-80a8-aa1b-4e228db7dcfa@tweedly.net> On 15/12/2017 17:19, Andrew Bell via use-livecode wrote: > They also tested updating the phone value themselves via API, and were > successful. I'd ask them for the sample code they used to do this update, and see if that gives us a clue. -- Alex. From sean at pidigital.co.uk Fri Dec 15 20:27:12 2017 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:27:12 +0000 Subject: RESTful PUT error In-Reply-To: <20171215171910.Horde.8jaUqubQKWdep1LQh1yUUU6@ua850258.serversignin.com> References: <20171215171910.Horde.8jaUqubQKWdep1LQh1yUUU6@ua850258.serversignin.com> Message-ID: Hi Andrew, I've been doing a whole heap of this just recently so have gained more experience in this than I would have hoped for :( In other words, I had hoped it would have been easier. especially working with oAuth procedures which ended up as a rolling nightmare for me these last few weeks. Here's what I notice first off. And not wanting to jump to any conclusions, I have checked the PipeDrive site too. (I'm working on a library for the new Adobe Sign API using oAuth which I am converting from the previous SOAP method we used to use) Their API, under Request Format states: In order to do a proper JSON-formatted request, make sure you provide Content-Type: > application/json as part of your HTTP request. So your header would require this also. Ordinarily, it would be recommended to put your access token in your header too for security reasons (even if it IS via https). But, they require you add it as a query in your uri. So you should now have something like: Put "{'phone':'555-555-5555'}" into tJSON replace "'" with quote in tJSON Put "https://api.pipedrive.com/v1/persons/1?api_token=" & tToken into tURL Set the httpheaders to "Content-Type: application/json" &lf& "Accept: application/json" Post tJSON to tURL So, really it's only this Content-Type that's holding you back as otherwise it is wondering what you are sending it and you have to be explicit. That's it really. The only characters that tend to cause me trouble are misplaced quotes, hashes, pound sign (?), slashes and new lines. But these you either provide ascii alternatives or backslash escape them. But you have used everything appropriately. It just doesn't recognise you've sent it any JSON formatted content. All the best. Sean Cole *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* On 15 December 2017 at 17:19, Andrew Bell via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I tried suggestions from several users (on and off the list), but nothing > has worked for me. After contacting Pipedrive tech support, I got the > typical IT response of "it works for us" as they blamed LiveCode. They > suggested that somehow using regex would fix the issue, but I'm not sure > how that would even apply here (their API is telling me the characters are > disallowed, not LC). Using tsNet calls gave me the same errors as libURL > from LC (8.2dp2 and 9.0dp10). > > httpHeaders: {"Accept":"application/json"} > JSON being POSTed (not PUT as their API requests): {"phone":"555-555-5555"} > URL being POSTed to (includes my API key for a test account): > https://api.pipedrive.com/v1/persons/1?api_token=ce95ed7f11e > 167194b0b4a6f6f1032df4fa13792 > > Reply from their support team: > I checked with our engineers regarding the "Disallowed Key Characters" > message, and they believe this is related to your code editor of choice. > Some additional programming may be necessary to include these "disallowed" > characters. They also tested updating the phone value themselves via API, > and were successful. > > For more reference on this issue, they also recommend the following > resources: > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4197976/codeigniter-disa > llowed-key-characters > http://www.darwinbiler.com/disallowed-key-characters-in-codeigniter/ > > > --Andrew Bell > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sean at pidigital.co.uk Fri Dec 15 20:38:25 2017 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:38:25 +0000 Subject: RESTful PUT error In-Reply-To: References: <20171215171910.Horde.8jaUqubQKWdep1LQh1yUUU6@ua850258.serversignin.com> Message-ID: Actually, your json needs to also include the name as a requirement, looking at the post format for 'Persons'. So it would be something like: Put "{ 'name': 'John Smith' " & lf & " 'phone': '555-555-5555' }" into tJSON replace "'" with quote in tJSON Put "https://api.pipedrive.com/v1/persons/1?api_token=" & tToken into tURL Set the httpheaders to "Content-Type: application/json" &lf& "Accept: application/json" Post tJSON to tURL 'Put' you would use if you were only sending a query which can be added after the main url. But because you have other data to send you need to use 'Post' so you can transmit other data to the queried uri. I hope this helps. Sean Cole *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* On 16 December 2017 at 01:27, Sean Cole (Pi) wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > I've been doing a whole heap of this just recently so have gained more > experience in this than I would have hoped for :( In other words, I had > hoped it would have been easier. especially working with oAuth procedures > which ended up as a rolling nightmare for me these last few weeks. Here's > what I notice first off. And not wanting to jump to any conclusions, I have > checked the PipeDrive site too. (I'm working on a library for the new Adobe > Sign API using oAuth which I am converting from the previous SOAP method we > used to use) > > Their API, under Request Format states: > > In order to do a proper JSON-formatted request, make sure you provide Content-Type: >> application/json as part of your HTTP request. > > So your header would require this also. Ordinarily, it would be > recommended to put your access token in your header too for security > reasons (even if it IS via https). But, they require you add it as a query > in your uri. So you should now have something like: > > Put "{'phone':'555-555-5555'}" into tJSON > > replace "'" with quote in tJSON > > Put "https://api.pipedrive.com/v1/persons/1?api_token=" & tToken into tURL > > Set the httpheaders to "Content-Type: application/json" &lf& "Accept: > application/json" > > Post tJSON to tURL > > > So, really it's only this Content-Type that's holding you back as > otherwise it is wondering what you are sending it and you have to be > explicit. > > That's it really. The only characters that tend to cause me trouble are > misplaced quotes, hashes, pound sign (?), slashes and new lines. But these > you either provide ascii alternatives or backslash escape them. But you > have used everything appropriately. It just doesn't recognise you've sent > it any JSON formatted content. > > All the best. > > Sean Cole > *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* > > > On 15 December 2017 at 17:19, Andrew Bell via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I tried suggestions from several users (on and off the list), but nothing >> has worked for me. After contacting Pipedrive tech support, I got the >> typical IT response of "it works for us" as they blamed LiveCode. They >> suggested that somehow using regex would fix the issue, but I'm not sure >> how that would even apply here (their API is telling me the characters are >> disallowed, not LC). Using tsNet calls gave me the same errors as libURL >> from LC (8.2dp2 and 9.0dp10). >> >> httpHeaders: {"Accept":"application/json"} >> JSON being POSTed (not PUT as their API requests): >> {"phone":"555-555-5555"} >> URL being POSTed to (includes my API key for a test account): >> https://api.pipedrive.com/v1/persons/1?api_token=ce95ed7f11e >> 167194b0b4a6f6f1032df4fa13792 >> >> Reply from their support team: >> I checked with our engineers regarding the "Disallowed Key Characters" >> message, and they believe this is related to your code editor of choice. >> Some additional programming may be necessary to include these "disallowed" >> characters. They also tested updating the phone value themselves via API, >> and were successful. >> >> For more reference on this issue, they also recommend the following >> resources: >> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4197976/codeigniter-disa >> llowed-key-characters >> http://www.darwinbiler.com/disallowed-key-characters-in-codeigniter/ >> >> >> --Andrew Bell >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Dec 15 21:15:35 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 21:15:35 -0500 Subject: Revigniter Sessions In-Reply-To: References: <2F848340-56D3-4B1E-995F-575086EE02E8@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: you got it Alex..thats exactly what I want to do ..... brilliant ...check header for cookie......get cookie..... got it. Thank You!!! On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hold on - you guys are getting confused - or maybe you're just getting me > confused :-) :-) > > > On the server side, Tom wants to use revIgniter session support - that > should be just fine. revIgniter (or indeed LC Server) doesn't know, or > care, if you are using a standard browser, a revBrowser inside an LC app, > or just get/put URLs from an LC app. > > > On the client side, Tom (I think) wants to use an LC App - not sure > whether he wants a revbroswer, or if he just wants to do "get URL" etc. > > If it is the former (i.e. revBrowser) then I have no clue :-) > > If it is "just" an LC app, then everything is fine - so long as the app > handles cookies, and session cookies, just like a browser would. Therefore, > when you retrieve a URL from the site, you should check the headers - using > libURLLastRHeaders() - to see what cookies are being set; and when you make > subsequent requests you need to set that cookie/value in the http headers > you are sending. > > see http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2008-July/112454.html > for a brief description. > > There ought to be a library to help, but I couldn't find one. > > Alex. > > > > On 15/12/2017 15:42, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > >> Thanks Bob, thats what I suspected as well....I guess I have to create my >> own session handler, or maybe I can still user rev-igniter's session >> handling via database only and ignore the cookie....we shall see. >> >> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> If the LC browser doesn't support cookies, probably nowhere. Session >>> cookies are kept in memory, and therefore likely inaccessible. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>> On Dec 15, 2017, at 07:29 , Tom Glod via use-livecode < >>>> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi everyone, this may be a dumb question.....but >>>> >>>> When I download a URL (from inside LC Standalone), which is a (LC Server >>>> Page) that generates a cookie, where does the cookie get saved? Is it >>>> accessible to me? >>>> I'm working on integrating LC Standalone with a Postgress DB via LC >>>> Server. I'd like to have session control, but the Revigniter >>>> >>> Documentation >>> >>>> just assumes that the person is browsing the site using a regular >>>> >>> browser. >>> >>>> I'd like to download database query results straight from my standalone. >>>> >>>> Hope my question makes sense >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> >>> subscription preferences: >>> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From cszasz at mac.com Sat Dec 16 12:36:49 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 10:36:49 -0700 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps Message-ID: I only code for desktop apps and do not do mobile apps. I have been setting the minimum resolution required for my app when they are launched. This is not a problem on Macs but it is a real problem for Windows 10 users. Since I will be compiling new apps with LC 6.9 due to its resolution setting, is it a good idea to no longer require a a minimum resolution for desktop apps? Sent from my iPad From brian at milby7.com Sat Dec 16 13:34:12 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:34:12 -0600 Subject: At this point, what's the shortest path to an iOS/Android app? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Take a look at this thread in the forum: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30018 The issue where the GM and PM don't natively work on mobile should be fixed soon (already merged on the develop-8.2 branch). The example stack in that thread includes the necessary code for them to work now though. It also lets you see how the different scale modes work on a device. There are a number of different techniques that can be used to account for the different screen sizes on mobile. Using GM/PM has not been an option without some manual work. If you look in the forums there are a few different methods that are suggested: - Use multiple cards to handle the portrait/landscape switch (i.e. on tablet where the interface could be significantly different) - Write manual resize handlers that move controls based on the actual screen size - Layout the controls in such a way that screen scaling can be used without clipping One thing about iOS... if there is not an appropriately sized splash screen image, the app will only think you have a screen the size of an iPhone 4 (the default that is included by the IDE). Thanks, Brian On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I have an app that I want to put into the app stores. I don't want to > charge for it. It's a super simple memory game, it took just a few hours to > build. There's nothing complex about it, just a handful of buttons, a few > fields, and a couple sliders. > > It's been a while since I investigated -- If I want to turn it into > something that works just in portrait, but works for various phones and > iPads, etc., what's the simplest path to that goal? > > Is there a ready-made shell that people prefer that I should copy the > elements of the app into? Or is there a mobile-specific library that I > should be copying into the app? > > What do people prefer to use at this point? > > thx > > gc > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Dec 16 13:42:24 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 20:42:24 +0200 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3e472fa9-d86a-f8f1-f391-81bb42aef109@gmail.com> Um? On 16/12/17 7:36 pm, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > I only code for desktop apps and do not do mobile apps. I have been setting the minimum resolution required for my app when they are launched. This is not a problem on Macs but it is a real problem for Windows 10 users. Since I will be compiling new apps with LC 6.9 due to its resolution setting, is it a good idea to no longer require a a minimum resolution for desktop apps? > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > "Since I will be compiling new apps with LC 6.9 due to its resolution setting" Are you saying that later recensions of LiveCode don't have a resolution setting? "This is not a problem on Macs but it is a real problem for Windows 10 users" Can you explain why? Richmond. From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Sat Dec 16 13:51:10 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:51:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1513450270497-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Have a look at these stats. http://gs.statcounter.com/screen-resolution-stats/desktop/worldwide These are for Nov 2016 to Nov 2017. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode TinyIDE Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From cszasz at mac.com Sat Dec 16 13:52:43 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:52:43 -0700 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps Message-ID: Richmond, I am using LC 6.7 because it is the most stable version of the 6 series. LC versions after 6.1.3 all have resolution settings. I had some Windows 10 users reporting difficulty in setting the screen resolution to run my apps. Hence, my question about setting the minimum screen resolution for my apps. So, do I need to set the screen resolution of my apps if I am using a version of LiveCode that has a resolution setting? Sent from my iPad From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Dec 16 14:07:53 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:07:53 +0200 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48992f3a-8688-9563-0510-ad05baf2ea7a@gmail.com> Well, for starters, my experience tells me that one's standalones should have a fixed resolution (I generally go for something like 1024 x 768 minus a bit on the vertical to take into account "screen furniture" such as men bars, start bars and docks). Then I have a routine in the stackScript or the script of the first card that checks the end-user's screen-res: the stack can then flash up a window that says something like this: "This program requires a minimum screen resolution of 1024 by 768, and a screen resolution of more than 1280 by 960 is not recommended" Richmond. On 16/12/17 8:52 pm, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > Richmond, > > I am using LC 6.7 because it is the most stable version of the 6 series. LC versions after 6.1.3 all have resolution settings. I had some Windows 10 users reporting difficulty in setting the screen resolution to run my apps. Hence, my question about setting the minimum screen resolution for my apps. So, do I need to set the screen resolution of my apps if I am using a version of LiveCode that has a resolution setting? > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From cszasz at mac.com Sat Dec 16 14:11:58 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:11:58 -0700 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps Message-ID: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> Andy, Interesting stats! Thanks for sharing! I set the screen resolution. Some of my users have small laptops which are limited to a vertical resolution of 768. Recently I have been setting required resolution to 1280x768 to accommodate them. So, my question about screen resolution for your apps is a vital question. Sent from my iPad From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Dec 16 14:25:56 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:25:56 +0200 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> Message-ID: <15005168-d60e-0bcc-382d-4a11bba3b653@gmail.com> Yes, it is a vital question: I just didn't quite understand what you meant in your initial post. I go for 1024 x 740 for my apps: this allows for start bars, docks and so forth, as end-users generally get a bit annoyed if those things are covered or, if they are set to appear at a mouseOver, block access to parts of your app. Richmond. On 16/12/17 9:11 pm, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > Andy, > > Interesting stats! Thanks for sharing! I set the screen resolution. Some of my users have small laptops which are limited to a vertical resolution of 768. Recently I have been setting required resolution to 1280x768 to accommodate them. > > So, my question about screen resolution for your apps is a vital question. > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 16 14:38:32 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:38:32 -0600 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> Message-ID: <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I'd probably create the stack size for an average screen resolution, then when the app launches get the available screen size, calculate a ratio, and set the scaleFactor of the stack to that ratio. That should accommodate anything. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 16, 2017 1:13:50 PM Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > Andy, > > Interesting stats! Thanks for sharing! I set the screen resolution. Some > of my users have small laptops which are limited to a vertical resolution > of 768. Recently I have been setting required resolution to 1280x768 to > accommodate them. > > So, my question about screen resolution for your apps is a vital question. > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Dec 16 14:49:57 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:49:57 +0200 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> That's fine if you feel comfortable about resizing and repositioning the controls on your stack. My experience of the Geometry Manager and such-like has been so bad that I always opt for a fixed stack size. Richmond. On 16/12/17 9:38 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I'd probably create the stack size for an average screen resolution, > then when the app launches get the available screen size, calculate a > ratio, and set the scaleFactor of the stack to that ratio. That should > accommodate anything. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On December 16, 2017 1:13:50 PM Charles Szasz via use-livecode > wrote: > >> Andy, >> >> Interesting stats! Thanks for sharing! I set the screen resolution. >> Some of my users have small laptops which are limited to a vertical >> resolution of 768. Recently I have been setting required resolution >> to 1280x768 to accommodate them. >> >> So, my question about screen resolution for your apps is a vital >> question. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 16 15:05:00 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 14:05:00 -0600 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7d43734a-96a2-ad20-8499-91ca80fa377b@hyperactivesw.com> This method doesn't use the geometry manager, and you do used a fixed size. It scales the entire stack proportionally. Try this from the message box: set the scaleFactor of this stack to 0.8 On 12/16/17 1:49 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > That's fine if you feel comfortable about resizing and repositioning the > controls on your stack. > > My experience of the Geometry Manager and such-like has been so bad that > I always opt for a fixed stack size. > > Richmond. > > On 16/12/17 9:38 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> I'd probably create the stack size for an average screen resolution, >> then when the app launches get the available screen size, calculate a >> ratio, and set the scaleFactor of the stack to that ratio. That should >> accommodate anything. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay???????? |???? jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software?????????? |???? http://www.hyperactivesw.com -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brian at milby7.com Sat Dec 16 15:06:38 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 20:06:38 +0000 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richard, can you outline some of the issues you have seen with the GM (or point to a thread where it was discussed). On the surface it looks like a good way to handle many types of positioning needs. There were a couple of oddities in the code that I?ve looked at already. On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 1:50 PM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That's fine if you feel comfortable about resizing and repositioning the > controls on your stack. > > My experience of the Geometry Manager and such-like has been so bad that > I always opt for a fixed stack size. > > Richmond. > > On 16/12/17 9:38 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I'd probably create the stack size for an average screen resolution, > > then when the app launches get the available screen size, calculate a > > ratio, and set the scaleFactor of the stack to that ratio. That should > > accommodate anything. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > > > On December 16, 2017 1:13:50 PM Charles Szasz via use-livecode > > wrote: > > > >> Andy, > >> > >> Interesting stats! Thanks for sharing! I set the screen resolution. > >> Some of my users have small laptops which are limited to a vertical > >> resolution of 768. Recently I have been setting required resolution > >> to 1280x768 to accommodate them. > >> > >> So, my question about screen resolution for your apps is a vital > >> question. > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From cszasz at mac.com Sat Dec 16 16:25:47 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 14:25:47 -0700 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps Message-ID: <2F3E4BE6-4AD3-4524-B29A-A7A1B3B95A71@mac.com> Jacqueline, I was really intrigued by your suggestion of using a scale factor! Can you elaborate more about this method? I have used Scale Factor and pretty much developed desktop apps on my Mac using a screen resolution of 1280x768 and 1280x800. Sent from my iPad From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 16 17:16:07 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 16:16:07 -0600 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <2F3E4BE6-4AD3-4524-B29A-A7A1B3B95A71@mac.com> References: <2F3E4BE6-4AD3-4524-B29A-A7A1B3B95A71@mac.com> Message-ID: On 12/16/17 3:25 PM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > Jacqueline, > > I was really intrigued by your suggestion of using a scale factor! Can you elaborate more about this method? I have used Scale Factor and pretty much developed desktop apps on my Mac using a screen resolution of 1280x768 and 1280x800. ScaleFactor is a LiveCode keyword (see the dictionary.) It just scales the stack to a designated ratio. A ratio of 1 is the native size. A scalefactor of .75 would scale everything down to 3/4 size. A scaleFactor of 2 would double the size on screen. Other than the scaling, nothing changes in the stack itself. Font sizes and all controls are managed for you. If your original stack size is, say, 800 pixels high, and the screen height is 768, then the ratio would be 768/800 or 0.96 scaleFactor. I think I'd round that to 0.9. Also, rather than use the actual screen height, use the "working screenrect" to get the useable area that isn't covered by OS elements. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From cszasz at mac.com Sat Dec 16 17:46:36 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 15:46:36 -0700 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps Message-ID: <40AECF53-2E6A-4391-B05C-22CE2514642B@mac.com> Jacqueline, Thanks for the explanation! If the resolution setting in LC 6.7 is checked, does this automatically take care of scaling for desktop apps? Sent from my iPad From irog at mac.com Sun Dec 17 11:57:59 2017 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 08:57:59 -0800 Subject: Shout Out to dev@livecode Message-ID: <983D6237-F7E5-4692-9F3C-EF2486BD683F@mac.com> I was rummaging around in RevOnline i.e. Sample Stacks looking for new ideas to play with and I ran across Bouncing Balls by dev at livecode.com last updated in 2014. I just have to say what a cool stack this is! I am learning so much from this contribution as it is filled with examples and concepts I was not familiar with, along with impeccable commenting throughout that even I can understand. Too often this list is focussed on criticisms of various sorts. Well, I for one appreciate this kind of support and it?s implementation and presentation on RevOnline. Thank you, dev at livecode!!! Roger From dave at applicationinsight.com Sun Dec 17 12:08:13 2017 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 17:08:13 +0000 Subject: Shout Out to dev@livecode Message-ID: Well said Roger Thank you team, we appreciate the amazing stuff you do! Kind regards Dave > I was rummaging around in RevOnline i.e. Sample Stacks looking for new ideas to play with and I ran across Bouncing Balls by [hidden email] last updated in 2014. I just have to say what a cool stack this is! I am learning so much from this contribution as it is filled with examples and concepts I was not familiar with, along with impeccable commenting throughout that even I can understand. > > Too often this list is focussed on criticisms of various sorts. Well, I for one appreciate this kind of support and it?s implementation and presentation on RevOnline. > > Thank you, dev at livecode!!! > > Roger From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Dec 17 15:42:59 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 14:42:59 -0600 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <40AECF53-2E6A-4391-B05C-22CE2514642B@mac.com> References: <40AECF53-2E6A-4391-B05C-22CE2514642B@mac.com> Message-ID: <3ba69f67-0fc6-216c-2cde-37f331bdb368@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/16/17 4:46 PM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > Jacqueline, > > Thanks for the explanation! If the resolution setting in LC 6.7 is checked, does this automatically take care of scaling for desktop apps? I'm not sure what setting you mean, I don't have any versions of LC 6 installed any more so I can't look. In LC 9 I see a Windows setting for automatic scaling but not in any other OS. LC 6 is very old, I abandoned it a long time ago. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun Dec 17 15:54:33 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:54:33 -0800 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12/16/2017 12:06 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > Richard, can you outline some of the issues you have seen with the GM (or > point to a thread where it was discussed). On the surface it looks like a > good way to handle many types of positioning needs. There were a couple of > oddities in the code that I?ve looked at already. Not sure who "Richard" is, but I can say from experience that the GM works fine until it doesn't, and then all hell breaks loose and it's impossible to get rid of the GM artifacts to the point where your app works again. You end up recreating the app from scratch again and wishing you had never touched the GM. So I don't anymore. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Dec 17 16:06:06 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 15:06:06 -0600 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4cc4c92c-6629-2875-f096-59dc3a919d9f@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/17/17 2:54 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/16/2017 12:06 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >> Richard, can you outline some of the issues you have seen with the GM (or >> point to a thread where it was discussed). On the surface it looks like a >> good way to handle many types of positioning needs. There were a >> couple of >> oddities in the code that I?ve looked at already. > > Not sure who "Richard" is, but I can say from experience that the GM > works fine until it doesn't, and then all hell breaks loose and it's > impossible to get rid of the GM artifacts to the point where your app > works again. You end up recreating the app from scratch again and > wishing you had never touched the GM. So I don't anymore. > You can remove the cRevGeometry propery set from each control if you don't want to rewrite the stack. But still... I stopped using it too. It sort of works if it's the last thing you do, but if you change the layout you have to start over again. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Dec 17 17:12:28 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 00:12:28 +0200 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <4cc4c92c-6629-2875-f096-59dc3a919d9f@hyperactivesw.com> References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> <4cc4c92c-6629-2875-f096-59dc3a919d9f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <664951d4-f55e-35fb-4a3d-c3ab1395e4a2@gmail.com> The identity of Richard is not really that interesting. What is interesting is why the Geometry Manager is still inclided in the IDE when it just isn't up to scratch: it should be either completely rejigged or dropped. Richmond. On 17/12/17 11:06 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/17/17 2:54 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> On 12/16/2017 12:06 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >>> Richard, can you outline some of the issues you have seen with the >>> GM (or >>> point to a thread where it was discussed). On the surface it looks >>> like a >>> good way to handle many types of positioning needs. There were a >>> couple of >>> oddities in the code that I?ve looked at already. >> >> Not sure who "Richard" is, but I can say from experience that the GM >> works fine until it doesn't, and then all hell breaks loose and it's >> impossible to get rid of the GM artifacts to the point where your app >> works again. You end up recreating the app from scratch again and >> wishing you had never touched the GM. So I don't anymore. >> > > You can remove the cRevGeometry propery set from each control if you > don't want to rewrite the stack. But still... > > I stopped using it too. It sort of works if it's the last thing you > do, but if you change the layout you have to start over again. > From brian at milby7.com Sun Dec 17 18:14:12 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 23:14:12 +0000 Subject: Geometry Manager (was Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps) In-Reply-To: <664951d4-f55e-35fb-4a3d-c3ab1395e4a2@gmail.com> References: <23C93E1A-EB99-4994-9E4B-31232AF6DDDF@mac.com> <16060d5cac0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <36037050-d3dc-1fcf-028c-75f4bfc1cfa6@gmail.com> <4cc4c92c-6629-2875-f096-59dc3a919d9f@hyperactivesw.com> <664951d4-f55e-35fb-4a3d-c3ab1395e4a2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, I?m at fault for the wrong name... sorry about that. The ?remove all? geometry settings button will work properly soon. That should fix things when they go bad for an individual object. I?m thinking a command is needed to do the same for an entire card. (Although ?revcachegeometry true? may fix some issues where changes are made in the PI but not properly updated for the object.) There are a couple of other things that will be addressed soon too (changes already merged into 8 or 9 branch). One thing I notice from the code is that it probably needs to do things in 2 passes instead of one. Order is set by ?distance? to an absolute on all sides. I?m thinking it may be better to do the horizontal separate from the vertical. More of an intuition at this point, but one thing I?d like to investigate. I would like to volunteer to work on improving the GM. I think it would be a good asset for new users to allow them to concentrate on other things initially besides resize handlers. The profile manager also needs to be improved (or at least made easier to use). There are a whole different set of issues when using GM/PM together. I also wonder how much difficulty is due to a clear explanation of how the GM works. I know because I?ve been tracing the code, but a new user (or even most long time users) isn?t going to do that. So, what should I look at first? I?ve got some time this week. Thanks, Brian On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 4:13 PM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The identity of Richard is not really that interesting. > > What is interesting is why the Geometry Manager is still inclided in the > IDE > when it just isn't up to scratch: it should be either completely rejigged > or > dropped. > > Richmond. > > On 17/12/17 11:06 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 12/17/17 2:54 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 12/16/2017 12:06 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > >>> Richard, can you outline some of the issues you have seen with the > >>> GM (or > >>> point to a thread where it was discussed). On the surface it looks > >>> like a > >>> good way to handle many types of positioning needs. There were a > >>> couple of > >>> oddities in the code that I?ve looked at already. > >> > >> Not sure who "Richard" is, but I can say from experience that the GM > >> works fine until it doesn't, and then all hell breaks loose and it's > >> impossible to get rid of the GM artifacts to the point where your app > >> works again. You end up recreating the app from scratch again and > >> wishing you had never touched the GM. So I don't anymore. > >> > > > > You can remove the cRevGeometry propery set from each control if you > > don't want to rewrite the stack. But still... > > > > I stopped using it too. It sort of works if it's the last thing you > > do, but if you change the layout you have to start over again. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From james at thehales.id.au Sun Dec 17 21:56:03 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hale) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 13:56:03 +1100 Subject: Xmas LC-elf activity Message-ID: <2EFDAAEF-5E6B-4A91-91C9-2FC7CDD8F520@thehales.id.au> And so, I wonder, looking over the github milestones.... Will the long standing and non critical issue still open against 8.13rc-1 and 8.20dp-3 be bumped to the next respective versions to allow these babies to be released? Will the tireless worker elves at Kris Kringle?s Edinburgh office be able to wrap up the outstanding 9 dp-11 issues before the Xmas break? Will our stockings be stuffed with three new downloads or will they remain empty? From brahma at hindu.org Sun Dec 17 22:57:44 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 03:57:44 +0000 Subject: Timer on Auto complete Message-ID: @monte I'm giving 9 dp 10 a workout. Since I'm building some stuff from ground zero, I'm finding the auto complete is very useful. So useful in fact that it?s a bit irritating when the suggested list is dismissed so quickly. Is there a way to keep the suggestions list from disappearing right away? what are the small letters in front of the suggestions? I'm constantly "reflecting" on my overall algorithm" so making immediate choices in the next code to enter is not the way of the timid? ? old habit of "try to write it once and write it right" from our editorial world. means you go a little slowly. Ernst Hemingway famous for writing one or two sentences of prose a day? of course he was an alcoholic existentialist who only had a few sober moments to write each day, and then committed suicide So I'm a little faster than that. If he had had auto complete, I suspect he would have thought life good enough to carry on. I just want to say the LC teams seems to be working very hard and we all appreciate it! Thank you! BR From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Dec 18 01:43:18 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 07:43:18 +0100 Subject: Xmas LC-elf activity In-Reply-To: <2EFDAAEF-5E6B-4A91-91C9-2FC7CDD8F520@thehales.id.au> References: <2EFDAAEF-5E6B-4A91-91C9-2FC7CDD8F520@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: Oh it depends. If you were well-behaved then yes it will happen. But if you were a naughty boy then it?s alone your fault. ;) Matthias > Am 18.12.2017 um 03:56 schrieb James At The Hale via use-livecode >: > > And so, I wonder, looking over the github milestones.... > > Will the long standing and non critical issue still open against 8.13rc-1 and 8.20dp-3 be bumped to the next respective versions to allow these babies to be released? > > Will the tireless worker elves at Kris Kringle?s Edinburgh office be able to wrap up the outstanding 9 dp-11 issues before the Xmas break? > > Will our stockings be stuffed with three new downloads or will they remain empty? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From cszasz at mac.com Mon Dec 18 09:51:12 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 07:51:12 -0700 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps Message-ID: <3DD1F2F3-6E57-4C00-A1EB-514848007F78@mac.com> Jacqueline I am referring to the Hi-DPI scaling that was introduced in LC 6.5 that allows stacks to be automatically scaled to match the system display setting. I am not using 6.5 but using 6.7.11 instead. I am assuming that this works with the user's setting when they use your app. I set most of my desktop apps to a minimum of a 1280x768 screen resolution in order to launch and run my apps. I had some Windows 10 users complained of not being able to run my apps although their screen resolution is higher than the required 1280x768. In the past I had recommended that they adjust their ClearType font setting to resolve this problem. I think that the Hi-DPI scaling is responsible for this problem. This is why I thought THAT using LC 6.9.11 the Hi-DPI scaling might resolve this problem. What do you think is the best way to resolve this problem? Sent from my iPad From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Dec 18 12:13:07 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:13:07 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 111 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #111 here: https://goo.gl/Rm6U3z This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From paul at researchware.com Mon Dec 18 12:28:13 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 12:28:13 -0500 Subject: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX Message-ID: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> I have a situation where an LC standalone (built on recent LC releases) need to communicate with a "helper app" standalone, built under LC4.6.4. The why is not really import, but it is to migrate some data that is highly dependent on how 464 handles text field character positions to versions of LiveCode that are above LC5.5.x where the position ranges change due to changes (bug fixes and improvements) to the field object. I am using IPC vs Sockets because under both Windows and OSX (the target platforms) if the user has their firewall security set high enough, using sockets causes a dialog to appear requiring the user to allow the connection. IPC under Windows (7 through 10) works great. Reliable and consistent. However, I am having problems with the same code under OSX. Has anyone worked out using Interprocess communication reliably between two LiveCode stacks/standalones under OSX that they would share or license for small money? Rather than pick apart our Windows code for what has to be different for OSX, I'd rather just jump to something that works under OSX if such code exists. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Dec 18 12:46:41 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 11:46:41 -0600 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps In-Reply-To: <3DD1F2F3-6E57-4C00-A1EB-514848007F78@mac.com> References: <3DD1F2F3-6E57-4C00-A1EB-514848007F78@mac.com> Message-ID: <1606abc1be8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I haven't used?Hi-DPI scaling but it sounds like the right thing. I guess you'll just have to try it and see how it goes. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 18, 2017 8:53:27 AM Charles Szasz via use-livecode wrote: > Jacqueline > > I am referring to the Hi-DPI scaling that was introduced in LC 6.5 that > allows stacks to be automatically scaled to match the system display > setting. I am not using 6.5 but using 6.7.11 instead. I am assuming that > this works with the user's setting when they use your app. > > I set most of my desktop apps to a minimum of a 1280x768 screen resolution > in order to launch and run my apps. I had some Windows 10 users complained > of not being able to run my apps although their screen resolution is higher > than the required 1280x768. In the past I had recommended that they adjust > their ClearType font setting to resolve this problem. > > I think that the Hi-DPI scaling is responsible for this problem. This is > why I thought THAT using LC 6.9.11 the Hi-DPI scaling might resolve this > problem. What do you think is the best way to resolve this problem? > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From cszasz at mac.com Mon Dec 18 13:49:00 2017 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 11:49:00 -0700 Subject: Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps Message-ID: <95BD57EB-7440-4A4E-A7C6-666B96A0AF12@mac.com> Jacqueline, Thanks for your comments! I really would like to know if others have use the Hi-DPI scaling setting and how it worked for them. Sent from my iPad From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 18 13:49:01 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 10:49:01 -0800 Subject: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX In-Reply-To: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> References: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> Message-ID: <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> Paul Dupuis wrote: > I am using IPC vs Sockets... "IPC" is usually a generic term, encompassing a wide range of inter-process communications methods which includes sockets, files, shared memory, pipes, and more. Which IPC method are you using? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Mon Dec 18 14:01:05 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:01:05 -0500 Subject: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX In-Reply-To: <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> References: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> On 12/18/2017 1:49 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Paul Dupuis wrote: > > > I am using IPC vs Sockets... > > "IPC" is usually a generic term, encompassing a wide range of > inter-process communications methods which includes sockets, files, > shared memory, pipes, and more. > > Which IPC method are you using? > Using LiveCode's open process (and related statements) vs open socket (IP) or using files. I have a set of stacks that work perfectly under Windows. The main app uses open process to spawn/launch the helper app standalone, which in turn listens for messages from the parent. The main app sens a message to the helper app, it does its thing and returns information to the main app (a series of these exchanges actually takes place) that then the main app senss a message for the helper exit. Check are built in for error or by checking teh open processes to see if the helper crashes or was quit (by a forced quit) and restart the helper is needed. As noted it work great. In principle, the same code should work equally great under OSX, but it does not. And yes, if (and when) I have time, i will track down the bugs and report them, but at the moment I was hoping for a quick fix where someone else already on the list may have identified the OSX idiosyncrasies and had sample code that worked around them :-) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Dec 18 15:19:13 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 12:19:13 -0800 Subject: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX In-Reply-To: <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> References: <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: <104a51ab-41e9-e71d-23d4-3daecdc5e75a@fourthworld.com> Paul Dupuis wrote: > On 12/18/2017 1:49 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> Which IPC method are you using? >> > Using LiveCode's open process (and related statements) vs open socket > (IP) or using files. > > I have a set of stacks that work perfectly under Windows. The main app > uses open process to spawn/launch the helper app standalone, which in > turn listens for messages from the parent. The main app sens a message > to the helper app, it does its thing and returns information to the > main app (a series of these exchanges actually takes place) that then > the main app senss a message for the helper exit. Check are built in > for error or by checking teh open processes to see if the helper > crashes or was quit (by a forced quit) and restart the helper is > needed. As noted it work great. > > In principle, the same code should work equally great under OSX, but > it does not. And yes, if (and when) I have time, i will track down the > bugs and report them, but at the moment I was hoping for a quick fix > where someone else already on the list may have identified the OSX > idiosyncrasies and had sample code that worked around them :-) If it's a bug in the engine no scripter can help. But given how much of a Unix like macOS depends on stdin/stdout streams, I'd be surprised to see a regression in that engine. Windows and Unix do handle processes differently under the hood, but if LC is doing what it ideally should be doing I agree we shouldn't need OS-forked code. Diagnosing whether this is an engine issue or a platform difference would require review of the code for both processes. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From tom at makeshyft.com Mon Dec 18 18:50:24 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 18:50:24 -0500 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I use the Community version for project, and recently I've been working with the LibURL Library to get some asynchronous server client communication going ...and if you've ever worked with that ...... its clear there is much room for improvement there. Though I have no choice what version to use, so I can only wait in patience, but I think for the long term health of the platform and to give it the modern robustness it needs, the tsnet library is going to have to become part of the community version. Otherwise it will always lag behind from being able to use modern internet APIs in combination. Is this something we would have to crowd fund? Is there anything legally preventing that from happening? Thanks for any thoughts From brahma at hindu.org Mon Dec 18 22:30:41 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 03:30:41 +0000 Subject: At this point, what's the shortest path to an iOS/Android app? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7208CE3C-5CE3-4EDE-86B6-E2B7DCC444F2@hindu.org> Geoff IMHO your shortest path will be a) forget about fully responsive, in terms of trying to emulate html5 web design. IMHO this whole "must be responsive" is a huge sidetrack from content development?someone spends days and days and ends up with a few pix and a little bit of text and "it's so cool? yeah.. it shrinks and expand so beautifully!" but nothing of substance. You will do better focusing on the game, content and game play UX instead of wasting time dealing with "on resize?" b) most games we are seeing on mobile are fixed to one orientation. This way you can "go crazy" with your design and not worry about "what happens if the user turns their phone sideways (or upright)" .e.g. even apple does not respond to orientation change in it settings module. Monument Valley (awesomely beautiful) is portrait only? period. other games are landscape only. period. c) once you accept the above, they you are good to go with on preopenstack wait 200 milliseconds with messages set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" end preopenstack and your stack *will* be responsive for the screen size, assuming you a) work in the "safe zone" b) are willing to accept some letter boxing. c) or just use a large background and then on some screens all your significant content will be constrained to the central horizontal safe zone (on landscape) or vertical (on portrait) but still look lovely. depending on the kinds of controls and overall look you may find one of these others works for you set the fullscreenmode of stack to {empty|"exactFit"|"letterbox"|"noBorder"|"noScale"|"showAll"} Each of these has its own caveats, I'm most familiar with showAll, but I think Randy is using exactFit? I hope others jump in here to discuss the differences/options.. But the above is, I think the fastest way to get to where you want to be without messing with responsive geometry. Of course I can hear some who will jump in and say "it's not that hard to roll your own." True, but depends on how many hours you want to put in on "resize stack" when that same mental re-estate could be going to building the game play? If you lock into portrait (or landscape), set a background image/grc to 1024 X 1024 and center that? but make your stack 736 X 414 (or 414 X 736) you and use fullscreenMode ShowAll, you can be deploying successfully to pretty much any device in 30 minutes? in the end there's no way around iterations, test, deploy on device(s) and try again. just two mangos from Hawaii? On 12/15/17, 11:00 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon via use-livecode" wrote: Is there a ready-made shell that people prefer that I should copy the elements of the app into? Or is there a mobile-specific library that I should be copying into the app? What do people prefer to use at this point? From brahma at hindu.org Mon Dec 18 22:50:57 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 03:50:57 +0000 Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode In-Reply-To: <007801d36eda$587e1460$097a3d20$@net> References: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> <007801d36eda$587e1460$097a3d20$@net> Message-ID: Hmmm I seem to have gotten myself into the same fix as Ben. " Now that I have updated to LC 9.0 DP-10 and LC 8.1.8 stable, nothing can build (except 8.1.6 stable - which unfortunately doesn't like the widgets in my stack!)." I'm on High Sierra 10.13.6, Xcode 9.1 and LC is telling me I don't have the required SDK @Ralph: I should start saving the old XCodes as you describe. so what now? Can we build for iOS on 9 dp 10 and if so, how? I?ll go and re-download the previous Xcode 9 from the developer portal? see it that helps. BR On 12/6/17, 11:36 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" wrote: #1 below==>The shared prefs is a problem. I see the same thing. Different prefs for each version would solve this. When a new version is started for the first time the prefs from the last version in the series(if any) should be copied to the new version prefs file. But the rub is... if you change some other prefs and go to another version the you lose the change. #2 below==>True... I always keep the Xcode version to build from in the applications folder and name it xcode.app. I put the other versions into another folder. When I upgrade Xcode I move the most recent version into my "OtherXcodeVersions" folder and rename it with the version number. I then download and install the new version into the applications folder. Of course I have to go into the LC prefs and fix the Xcode versions. The hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app should come from the prefs. Radio buttons in the Xcode prefs to indicate==> "Build using tools in this version would solve this. #3 below==> I agree the docs need to be updated matrix whenever a new Xcode/Mac/LC version is released. Even if LC does not support a particular combination it should be documented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:16 PM To: Use LiveCode Cc: Ben Rubinstein Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode This continues to be a major source of friction. Once again all my versions of LiveCode seem to have been reset so that they can't find a version of Xcode they like. (At any time I am probably switching between (or have simultaneously open) four version of LC: LC 6.7.11; the latest stable version of 8; the latest 8 RC or sometimes DP; the latest DP of 9. Admittedly I'm not building iOS apps from 6.7.11.) I think that there are two main problems: 1) Because preferences are shared between versions of LiveCode. I believe it is the case than when switching between versions of LiveCode, if the mobile support preferences are opened in a version of LC which doesn't play nice with the selected version of Xcode, that path is deleted; so that next time the version of LC which was previously happy is opened, the path to Xcode is gone. The behaviour may be a little more subtle than this, but I believe something along these lines is correct. 2) Something somewhere along the line of building apps seems to have a hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app; so that while I may be able to maintain a set of different Xcodes in separate folders or separately named, LiveCode won't entirely work this way. So currently I have XCode 8.3.3 as the 'canonical' version, probably because I was using LiveCode 9.0 DP-9. Now that I have updated to LC 9.0 DP-10 and LC 8.1.8 stable, nothing can build (except 8.1.6 stable - which unfortunately doesn't like the widgets in my stack!). 3) A third problem: I now want to start using LC 8.1.8, the latest stable version; what version of Xcode does it use on Mas OS 10.12? According to https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ : > LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 LiveCode 8.1.8 > RC-2 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode > 9.1 -Mac OS 10.12.6+ ? iOS 11.1 > > LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 LiveCode 8.2.0 > DP-1 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode > 8.3 -Mac OS 10.12 ? iOS 10.3 Some things that would make this better: 1) When the mobile support preferences were opened, if there is a path to a version of Xcode which this version of LC can't use, it would be better if it were displayed - but in grey or red or similar to show it's not usable - rather than being deleted, this would be better. 2) Ensure that iOS standalones can be built if there is a path to a valid version of Xcode, regardless of that path. 3) Change the list on https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ to a table, with LiveCode versions on one axis, MacOS versions on the other, and Xcode/iOS versions in each cell. 3b) Update the above to include the current stable 8.1.8! I'm off for a stiff drink... Ben _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Mon Dec 18 23:23:53 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 04:23:53 +0000 Subject: At this point, what's the shortest path to an iOS/Android app? In-Reply-To: <7208CE3C-5CE3-4EDE-86B6-E2B7DCC444F2@hindu.org> References: <7208CE3C-5CE3-4EDE-86B6-E2B7DCC444F2@hindu.org> Message-ID: The demo stack on the thread I mentioned lets you switch between the different fullscreen modes to see how it impacts the display. You could add a background image as suggested to see how that worked too. On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 9:31 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Geoff > > IMHO your shortest path will be > > a) forget about fully responsive, in terms of trying to emulate html5 web > design. IMHO this whole "must be responsive" is a huge sidetrack from > content development?someone spends days and days and ends up with a few pix > and a little bit of text and "it's so cool? yeah.. it shrinks and expand so > beautifully!" but nothing of substance. You will do better focusing on the > game, content and game play UX instead of wasting time dealing with "on > resize?" > > b) most games we are seeing on mobile are fixed to one orientation. This > way you can "go crazy" with your design and not worry about "what happens > if the user turns their phone sideways (or upright)" .e.g. even apple does > not respond to orientation change in it settings module. Monument Valley > (awesomely beautiful) is portrait only? period. other games are landscape > only. period. > > c) once you accept the above, they you are good to go with > > > on preopenstack > wait 200 milliseconds with messages > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" > end preopenstack > > and your stack *will* be responsive for the screen size, assuming you > > a) work in the "safe zone" > b) are willing to accept some letter boxing. > c) or just use a large background and then on some screens all your > significant content will be constrained to the central horizontal safe zone > (on landscape) or vertical (on portrait) but still look lovely. > > depending on the kinds of controls and overall look you may find one of > these others works for you > > set the fullscreenmode of stack to > {empty|"exactFit"|"letterbox"|"noBorder"|"noScale"|"showAll"} > > Each of these has its own caveats, I'm most familiar with showAll, but I > think Randy is using exactFit? > I hope others jump in here to discuss the differences/options.. > > But the above is, I think the fastest way to get to where you want to be > without messing with responsive geometry. > > Of course I can hear some who will jump in and say "it's not that hard to > roll your own." True, but depends on how many hours you want to put in on > "resize stack" when that same mental re-estate could be going to building > the game play? If you lock into portrait (or landscape), set a background > image/grc to 1024 X 1024 and center that? but make your stack 736 X 414 > (or 414 X 736) you and use fullscreenMode ShowAll, you can be deploying > successfully to pretty much any device in 30 minutes? > > in the end there's no way around iterations, test, deploy on device(s) and > try again. > > just two mangos from Hawaii? > > > > > On 12/15/17, 11:00 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon via > use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Is there a ready-made shell that people prefer that I should copy the > elements of the app into? Or is there a mobile-specific library that I > should be copying into the app? > > What do people prefer to use at this point? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 19 01:29:50 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:29:50 -0600 Subject: At this point, what's the shortest path to an iOS/Android app? In-Reply-To: <7208CE3C-5CE3-4EDE-86B6-E2B7DCC444F2@hindu.org> References: <7208CE3C-5CE3-4EDE-86B6-E2B7DCC444F2@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1606d76cb30.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> On December 18, 2017 9:32:42 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > c) once you accept the above, they you are good to go with > > on preopenstack > wait 200 milliseconds with messages > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" > end preopenstack Just for the record, I've never needed the wait command. There's something about Swami's fairly complex setup that requires it but for a more straightforward implementation it doesn't seem necessary. I do like fullscreenmode though. It really does cut down on development time. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Dec 19 07:13:52 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 13:13:52 +0100 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8BABE20B-1569-4EE1-8927-4252F0B879C4@m-r-d.de> Todd, i understand your desire to have such a feature in the Community Edition, but I don?t think this will happen in near future. If i understood correctly then tsNET is a 3rd party product which Livecode Ltd. has acquired or however this is called. So they have paid money for that. The tsNet external is really a big win for us and i think it is just fair that this is only included in the commercial licenses. Why? Because there must be a difference between a free license and a paid license otherwise everyone would use the free one. And there must be a feature difference between different Indy and Business license t for the same reason. Btw. Xojo does it the same. The more you pay, the more you?ll get. With one exception, they are not offering a free version. LibURL does and did its job more or less well for years. So at least there is the possibility to do asnynchronous operations. Although i am a 1-man company and my revenues are less than $500,000 a year and although i have a lifetime Indy license i have subscribed for a business license just because of its features and the possibility to get priority support if ever needed. The indy license btw.allows only 1 seat per organisation. A Seat (regardless if Indy or Business) are for one named developer and cannot be shared. If you need more seats you have to purchase a business license with the appropriate number of seats. It seems not all customers are/were aware of these terms in the past. Otherwise Livecode Ltd. would not have sent out an email in October to all Indy/Business customers with some information about the license terms and the requirement to sign a digital license agreement. What i would vote for is to add SFTP (synchronous) feature to the Community Edition to allow secure FTP transfers. Matthias > Am 19.12.2017 um 00:50 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode >: > > Hi Everyone, > > I use the Community version for project, and recently I've been working > with the LibURL Library to get some asynchronous server client > communication going ...and if you've ever worked with that ...... its clear > there is much room for improvement there. > > Though I have no choice what version to use, so I can only wait in > patience, but I think for the long term health of the platform and to give > it the modern robustness it needs, the tsnet library is going to have to > become part of the community version. Otherwise it will always lag behind > from being able to use modern internet APIs in combination. > > Is this something we would have to crowd fund? > > Is there anything legally preventing that from happening? > > Thanks for any thoughts > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe Tel +49 5741 310000 ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? From panos.merakos at livecode.com Tue Dec 19 07:33:53 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 12:33:53 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.9 RC-1 Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1. Getting the Release =================== You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via the automatic updater. Release Contents ================ LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1 contains more than 20 bugfixes and improvements, including: - Various crashes related to the acceleratedRendering property are now fixed - Support for building with Xcode 9.2 (and using the latest iOS 11.2 SDK) has been added, as well as the ability to set splash images and icon for iPhone X. - New versions of mergExt* and tsNet externals are included, addressing a couple of bugs. Notes: - Xcode 9.2 requires MacOS 10.12.6 or higher The full release notes are available from: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_9/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_9_rc_1.pdf Feedback ======== Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ Have fun! The LiveCode Team -- From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Dec 19 07:45:38 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 13:45:38 +0100 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: <8BABE20B-1569-4EE1-8927-4252F0B879C4@m-r-d.de> References: <8BABE20B-1569-4EE1-8927-4252F0B879C4@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Tom, please excuse for using the wrong name. Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 19.12.2017 um 13:13 schrieb Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode : > > Todd, > i understand your desire to have such a feature in the Community Edition, but I don?t think this will happen in near future. > > If i understood correctly then tsNET is a 3rd party product which Livecode Ltd. has acquired or however this is called. So they have paid money for that. > > The tsNet external is really a big win for us and i think it is just fair that this is only included in the commercial licenses. > > Why? Because there must be a difference between a free license and a paid license otherwise everyone would use the free one. > And there must be a feature difference between different Indy and Business license t for the same reason. > Btw. Xojo does it the same. The more you pay, the more you?ll get. With one exception, they are not offering a free version. > > LibURL does and did its job more or less well for years. So at least there is the possibility to do asnynchronous operations. > > Although i am a 1-man company and my revenues are less than $500,000 a year and although i have a lifetime Indy license i > have subscribed for a business license just because of its features and the possibility to get priority support if ever needed. > > The indy license btw.allows only 1 seat per organisation. A Seat (regardless if Indy or Business) are for one named developer and > cannot be shared. If you need more seats you have to purchase a business license with the appropriate number of seats. > It seems not all customers are/were aware of these terms in the past. Otherwise Livecode Ltd. would not have sent out an email in October to all > Indy/Business customers with some information about the license terms and the requirement to sign a digital license agreement. > > What i would vote for is to add SFTP (synchronous) feature to the Community Edition to allow secure FTP transfers. > > Matthias > > >> Am 19.12.2017 um 00:50 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode >: >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I use the Community version for project, and recently I've been working >> with the LibURL Library to get some asynchronous server client >> communication going ...and if you've ever worked with that ...... its clear >> there is much room for improvement there. >> >> Though I have no choice what version to use, so I can only wait in >> patience, but I think for the long term health of the platform and to give >> it the modern robustness it needs, the tsnet library is going to have to >> become part of the community version. Otherwise it will always lag behind >> from being able to use modern internet APIs in combination. >> >> Is this something we would have to crowd fund? >> >> Is there anything legally preventing that from happening? >> >> Thanks for any thoughts >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Matthias Rebbe > Tel +49 5741 310000 > ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 19 08:48:04 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:48:04 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.9 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Any word on the next release of 9? On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:33 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dear list members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1. > > Getting the Release > =================== > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via > the automatic updater. > > > Release Contents > ================ > > LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1 contains more than 20 bugfixes and improvements, > including: > > - Various crashes related to the acceleratedRendering property are now > fixed > - Support for building with Xcode 9.2 (and using the latest iOS 11.2 SDK) > has been added, as well as the ability to set splash images and icon for > iPhone X. > - New versions of mergExt* and tsNet externals are included, addressing a > couple of bugs. > > > Notes: > > - Xcode 9.2 requires MacOS 10.12.6 or higher > > > The full release notes are available from: > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_9/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_9_rc_1.pdf > > > Feedback > ======== > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > Have fun! > The LiveCode Team > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Dec 19 08:54:29 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 13:54:29 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.9 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, short answer is "quite soon, before Christmas" :) On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Any word on the next release of 9? > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:33 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Dear list members, > > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1. > > > > Getting the Release > > =================== > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > via > > the automatic updater. > > > > > > Release Contents > > ================ > > > > LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1 contains more than 20 bugfixes and improvements, > > including: > > > > - Various crashes related to the acceleratedRendering property are now > > fixed > > - Support for building with Xcode 9.2 (and using the latest iOS 11.2 SDK) > > has been added, as well as the ability to set splash images and icon for > > iPhone X. > > - New versions of mergExt* and tsNet externals are included, addressing a > > couple of bugs. > > > > > > Notes: > > > > - Xcode 9.2 requires MacOS 10.12.6 or higher > > > > > > The full release notes are available from: > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_9/LiveCodeNotes- > 8_1_9_rc_1.pdf > > > > > > Feedback > > ======== > > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > > > > Have fun! > > The LiveCode Team > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 19 08:59:11 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:59:11 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.9 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excellent. On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 8:54 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Well, short answer is "quite soon, before Christmas" :) > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Any word on the next release of 9? > > > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:33 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Dear list members, > > > > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1. > > > > > > Getting the Release > > > =================== > > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > > via > > > the automatic updater. > > > > > > > > > Release Contents > > > ================ > > > > > > LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1 contains more than 20 bugfixes and improvements, > > > including: > > > > > > - Various crashes related to the acceleratedRendering property are now > > > fixed > > > - Support for building with Xcode 9.2 (and using the latest iOS 11.2 > SDK) > > > has been added, as well as the ability to set splash images and icon > for > > > iPhone X. > > > - New versions of mergExt* and tsNet externals are included, > addressing a > > > couple of bugs. > > > > > > > > > Notes: > > > > > > - Xcode 9.2 requires MacOS 10.12.6 or higher > > > > > > > > > The full release notes are available from: > > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_9/LiveCodeNotes- > > 8_1_9_rc_1.pdf > > > > > > > > > Feedback > > > ======== > > > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > > > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > > > > > > > Have fun! > > > The LiveCode Team > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dave at applicationinsight.com Tue Dec 19 10:03:08 2017 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 15:03:08 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.9 RC-1 Message-ID: Excellent Excellent Excellent Dave Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > Excellent. > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 8:54 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Well, short answer is "quite soon, before Christmas" :) > > > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Any word on the next release of 9? > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:33 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear list members, > > > > > > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1. > > > > > > > > Getting the Release > > > > =================== > > > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > > > via > > > > the automatic updater. > > > > > > > > > > > > Release Contents > > > > ================ > > > > > > > > LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1 contains more than 20 bugfixes and improvements, > > > > including: > > > > > > > > - Various crashes related to the acceleratedRendering property are now > > > > fixed > > > > - Support for building with Xcode 9.2 (and using the latest iOS 11.2 > > SDK) > > > > has been added, as well as the ability to set splash images and icon > > for > > > > iPhone X. > > > > - New versions of mergExt* and tsNet externals are included, > > addressing a > > > > couple of bugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Notes: > > > > > > > > - Xcode 9.2 requires MacOS 10.12.6 or higher > > > > > > > > > > > > The full release notes are available from: > > > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_9/LiveCodeNotes- > > > 8_1_9_rc_1.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > Feedback > > > > ======== > > > > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > > > > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Have fun! > > > > The LiveCode Team > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Dec 19 12:03:21 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 12:03:21 -0500 Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode In-Reply-To: References: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> <007801d36eda$587e1460$097a3d20$@net> Message-ID: <004001d378eb$49e24690$dda6d3b0$@net> BR, I've been a little under the weather so I can't test. I always rename/move the most recent version of Xcode to another folder and download the most recent one to the application folder and open it at least once. If you need an older version then temporarily rename and move a more recent version to another folder then download the older version and open it once in the applications folder using the name xcode.app. Then rename/move the older version and move the most recent back to applications folder and name it Xcode.app. This does not fix the building problem with the hardcoded build path and the shared prefs in a LC version series. As I said the only way out of this rigmarole is: 1) Have unique prefs for each LC version. These unique prefs might only include the mobile prefs and let the other prefs be shared in a series 2) A way of indicating the Xcode version to use the build tools from. Things just move too quick not to do these 2 fixes. We have 2 or 3 active LC branches being released along with OSX/iOS/Xcode versions out the ying-yang not to do these 2 fixes. Have either of these 2 been added to the QCC DB? If this could all be done in LCS I would work on it. I can't see a downside. This would encourage me to do more testing with DPs and RCs. I can't remember a contiguous 30 day period in the last 18 months that my iOS prefs were stable. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:51 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami Subject: Re: Versions of LC and Xcode Hmmm I seem to have gotten myself into the same fix as Ben. " Now that I have updated to LC 9.0 DP-10 and LC 8.1.8 stable, nothing can build (except 8.1.6 stable - which unfortunately doesn't like the widgets in my stack!)." I'm on High Sierra 10.13.6, Xcode 9.1 and LC is telling me I don't have the required SDK @Ralph: I should start saving the old XCodes as you describe. so what now? Can we build for iOS on 9 dp 10 and if so, how? I?ll go and re-download the previous Xcode 9 from the developer portal? see it that helps. BR On 12/6/17, 11:36 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via use-livecode" wrote: #1 below==>The shared prefs is a problem. I see the same thing. Different prefs for each version would solve this. When a new version is started for the first time the prefs from the last version in the series(if any) should be copied to the new version prefs file. But the rub is... if you change some other prefs and go to another version the you lose the change. #2 below==>True... I always keep the Xcode version to build from in the applications folder and name it xcode.app. I put the other versions into another folder. When I upgrade Xcode I move the most recent version into my "OtherXcodeVersions" folder and rename it with the version number. I then download and install the new version into the applications folder. Of course I have to go into the LC prefs and fix the Xcode versions. The hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app should come from the prefs. Radio buttons in the Xcode prefs to indicate==> "Build using tools in this version would solve this. #3 below==> I agree the docs need to be updated matrix whenever a new Xcode/Mac/LC version is released. Even if LC does not support a particular combination it should be documented. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:16 PM To: Use LiveCode Cc: Ben Rubinstein Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode This continues to be a major source of friction. Once again all my versions of LiveCode seem to have been reset so that they can't find a version of Xcode they like. (At any time I am probably switching between (or have simultaneously open) four version of LC: LC 6.7.11; the latest stable version of 8; the latest 8 RC or sometimes DP; the latest DP of 9. Admittedly I'm not building iOS apps from 6.7.11.) I think that there are two main problems: 1) Because preferences are shared between versions of LiveCode. I believe it is the case than when switching between versions of LiveCode, if the mobile support preferences are opened in a version of LC which doesn't play nice with the selected version of Xcode, that path is deleted; so that next time the version of LC which was previously happy is opened, the path to Xcode is gone. The behaviour may be a little more subtle than this, but I believe something along these lines is correct. 2) Something somewhere along the line of building apps seems to have a hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app; so that while I may be able to maintain a set of different Xcodes in separate folders or separately named, LiveCode won't entirely work this way. So currently I have XCode 8.3.3 as the 'canonical' version, probably because I was using LiveCode 9.0 DP-9. Now that I have updated to LC 9.0 DP-10 and LC 8.1.8 stable, nothing can build (except 8.1.6 stable - which unfortunately doesn't like the widgets in my stack!). 3) A third problem: I now want to start using LC 8.1.8, the latest stable version; what version of Xcode does it use on Mas OS 10.12? According to https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ : > LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 LiveCode 8.1.8 > RC-2 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode > 9.1 -Mac OS 10.12.6+ ? iOS 11.1 > > LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 LiveCode 8.2.0 > DP-1 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode > 8.3 -Mac OS 10.12 ? iOS 10.3 Some things that would make this better: 1) When the mobile support preferences were opened, if there is a path to a version of Xcode which this version of LC can't use, it would be better if it were displayed - but in grey or red or similar to show it's not usable - rather than being deleted, this would be better. 2) Ensure that iOS standalones can be built if there is a path to a valid version of Xcode, regardless of that path. 3) Change the list on https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ to a table, with LiveCode versions on one axis, MacOS versions on the other, and Xcode/iOS versions in each cell. 3b) Update the above to include the current stable 8.1.8! I'm off for a stiff drink... Ben _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Tue Dec 19 13:30:32 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 19:30:32 +0100 Subject: Xmas LC-elf activity In-Reply-To: <2EFDAAEF-5E6B-4A91-91C9-2FC7CDD8F520@thehales.id.au> References: <2EFDAAEF-5E6B-4A91-91C9-2FC7CDD8F520@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: <1fd5fc67b4d334b9c86bc5a70f48578d@livecode.com> On 2017-12-18 03:56, James At The Hale via use-livecode wrote: > And so, I wonder, looking over the github milestones.... > > Will the long standing and non critical issue still open against > 8.13rc-1 and 8.20dp-3 be bumped to the next respective versions to > allow these babies to be released? > > Will the tireless worker elves at Kris Kringle?s Edinburgh office be > able to wrap up the outstanding 9 dp-11 issues before the Xmas break? > > Will our stockings be stuffed with three new downloads or will they > remain empty? The elves have been working quite tirelessly the last couple of weeks (even more so the last few days - judging by the UK times of commits / PRs on GitHub and internal messages on slack by those who don't live in an antipodean timezone)! The first early christmas present (8.1.9-rc-1) has already been delivered, and assuming that no unexpected headwinds affect the course of Santa's sleigh there are more expected before the upcoming festive break :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Dec 19 13:43:17 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 19:43:17 +0100 Subject: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX In-Reply-To: <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> References: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 2017-12-18 20:01, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > In principle, the same code should work equally great under OSX, but it > does not. And yes, if (and when) I have time, i will track down the > bugs > and report them, but at the moment I was hoping for a quick fix where > someone else already on the list may have identified the OSX > idiosyncrasies and had sample code that worked around them :-) Hmmm - I have quite a long memory but it doesn't quite stretch as far back as 4.6.4 these days so I can' say what might have changed on the process related commands in versions since then. I do know that there *were* significant bugs in process communication on OS X for quite some time after I started working at LiveCode (well, RunRev back then) - which gradually got fixed. I'm pretty sure that the most recent versions (certainly since 6.x) should be working correctly (- but I can't really say much about versions before then. So I suspect the issues might be to do with the 4.6.4 side - rather than the version on the other side (presumably 6.7.11?). In terms of the changes to field indicies - 6.x still uses the same unicode flag for style runs in the field that 4.6.4 uses - the data inside the engine is the same, but the char indicies are not. I'm pretty sure it would be possible to write a handler which takes the styledText array of a field in 6.7.11 and a list of old indicies, returning a list of new char indicies... Would that help? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Dec 19 13:58:39 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 19:58:39 +0100 Subject: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX In-Reply-To: References: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 2017-12-19 19:43, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-12-18 20:01, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> In principle, the same code should work equally great under OSX, but >> it >> does not. And yes, if (and when) I have time, i will track down the >> bugs >> and report them, but at the moment I was hoping for a quick fix where >> someone else already on the list may have identified the OSX >> idiosyncrasies and had sample code that worked around them :-) > > Hmmm - I have quite a long memory but it doesn't quite stretch as far > back as 4.6.4 these days so I can' say what might have changed on the > process related commands in versions since then. > > I do know that there *were* significant bugs in process communication > on OS X for quite some time after I started working at LiveCode (well, > RunRev back then) - which gradually got fixed. I'm pretty sure that > the most recent versions (certainly since 6.x) should be working > correctly (- but I can't really say much about versions before then. > > So I suspect the issues might be to do with the 4.6.4 side - rather > than the version on the other side (presumably 6.7.11?). Of course, looking through the release notes for 4.6.4 I found this: -------- Slave process improvements (4.5) A number of issues with the open process command and the engine itself have, up until now, conspired to make it difficult (if not impossible!) to either run a slave process, or use the engine as slave on all platforms. These issues have been resolved in this version, thus making it straightforward to run another process and poll for input and output over stdin/stdout. The typical form for this is along the following lines (this example assumes the process being executed outputs whole lines): command startSlave pProcess open process pProcess for text update send ?monitorSlave pProcess? to me in 50 millisecs end startSlave command monitorSlave pProcess repeat forever # Loop until there are no more lines to read. read from process pProcess for 1 line in 0 millisecs if the result is empty then # The slave has sent us something, so process it and loop for # (potentially) more data. else if the result is ?timeout? then # There is nothing waiting for us, so exit repeat exit repeat else if the result is ?eof? then # The slave has terminated, so do any final processing and finish # monitoring. close process pProcess exit monitorSlave else # Some error has occurred! exit monitorSlave end if end repeat send ?monitorSlave pProcess? to me in 50 millisecs end monitorSlave -------- So, it would seem that the issues I refer to above were fixed in 4.5... So either other bugs have crept in, or there is a cross-platform difference lurking somewhere between mac/windows... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 19 14:55:58 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 19:55:58 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.9 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jai Ganesha! Yay! The SivaSiva app can now "go live" -- we have been keeping it under wraps until Android was working. So this is *huge* for us. Thank you sooooo much! Have a great Christmas? BR Panos: Various crashes related to the acceleratedRendering property are now fixed From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Dec 19 15:13:48 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 15:13:48 -0500 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: References: <8BABE20B-1569-4EE1-8927-4252F0B879C4@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hi Matthias... thank you for your thoughts. I think my post was less about my own needs for that feature .... but in general I'm seeing that Web API's are getting more and more capable and will be more and more used by developers going forward. So being unable to send more than one asyncronoys request to the same server is highly limiting. So if livecode has any hope that their platform will ever be used for a serious and extensive open source project, this is a deal breaker. As for me, I think I can work around this for my needs. .... for now. Like I said, I have no choice in using the community version, so I'm not conflicted as to what to do .... just gotta go forward. Thanks for your thoughts and Cheers, Tom On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Tom, please excuse for using the wrong name. > > Von meinem iPhone gesendet > > > Am 19.12.2017 um 13:13 schrieb Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Todd, > > i understand your desire to have such a feature in the Community > Edition, but I don?t think this will happen in near future. > > > > If i understood correctly then tsNET is a 3rd party product which > Livecode Ltd. has acquired or however this is called. So they have paid > money for that. > > > > The tsNet external is really a big win for us and i think it is just > fair that this is only included in the commercial licenses. > > > > Why? Because there must be a difference between a free license and a > paid license otherwise everyone would use the free one. > > And there must be a feature difference between different Indy and > Business license t for the same reason. > > Btw. Xojo does it the same. The more you pay, the more you?ll get. With > one exception, they are not offering a free version. > > > > LibURL does and did its job more or less well for years. So at least > there is the possibility to do asnynchronous operations. > > > > Although i am a 1-man company and my revenues are less than $500,000 a > year and although i have a lifetime Indy license i > > have subscribed for a business license just because of its features and > the possibility to get priority support if ever needed. > > > > The indy license btw.allows only 1 seat per organisation. A Seat > (regardless if Indy or Business) are for one named developer and > > cannot be shared. If you need more seats you have to purchase a business > license with the appropriate number of seats. > > It seems not all customers are/were aware of these terms in the past. > Otherwise Livecode Ltd. would not have sent out an email in October to all > > Indy/Business customers with some information about the license terms > and the requirement to sign a digital license agreement. > > > > What i would vote for is to add SFTP (synchronous) feature to the > Community Edition to allow secure FTP transfers. > > > > Matthias > > > > > >> Am 19.12.2017 um 00:50 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > >> > >> Hi Everyone, > >> > >> I use the Community version for project, and recently I've been working > >> with the LibURL Library to get some asynchronous server client > >> communication going ...and if you've ever worked with that ...... its > clear > >> there is much room for improvement there. > >> > >> Though I have no choice what version to use, so I can only wait in > >> patience, but I think for the long term health of the platform and to > give > >> it the modern robustness it needs, the tsnet library is going to have to > >> become part of the community version. Otherwise it will always lag > behind > >> from being able to use modern internet APIs in combination. > >> > >> Is this something we would have to crowd fund? > >> > >> Is there anything legally preventing that from happening? > >> > >> Thanks for any thoughts > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > Matthias Rebbe > > Tel +49 5741 310000 > > ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 19 15:19:40 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 20:19:40 +0000 Subject: Analyzing Crashes on iOS Apps Message-ID: One app report 90 crashes in iTunes connect among users who have opted in. How can we analyze these to make improvements? in xCode we can set our account preferences then go Window -- Organizer -- Crashes and xCode will fetch data for the app you have up ? if click on the iOS app for your app on the left, then you get info listings on the right. but these give me nothing I can make any use of ? long list under e.g: "Thread 8" 0 SivaSiva 0x34000 1 SivaSiva 0x34000 clicking on the small arrow take you to a window to "Open crash longs in: but No recent Projects since we don't build our standalones in xCode, we have not project, so no way to view any of these crash logs. 1 crash total for iPad 4th Generation model So I am not seeing there the total of 90 is coming from in the analytics. IN any case, is there some way we can make these reports more useful in terms of a) sending to LC HQ b) figuring out what is going on that we should change in our LC scripting (though a case could be made that if it is not crashing or breaking in the IDE, then it Is not something we can fix in our LC code? ?? Any LC develop got all this figured out? BR From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 19 15:49:05 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 15:49:05 -0500 Subject: Analyzing Crashes on iOS Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think you can also get crash reports if someone quits the app under certain conditions. On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > One app report 90 crashes in iTunes connect among users who have opted in. > > How can we analyze these to make improvements? > > in xCode we can set our account preferences then go > > Window -- Organizer -- Crashes > > and xCode will fetch data for the app you have up ? if click on the iOS > app for your app on the left, then you get info listings on the right. but > these give me nothing I can make any use of ? long list under e.g: > > "Thread 8" > > 0 SivaSiva 0x34000 > 1 SivaSiva 0x34000 > > clicking on the small arrow take you to a window to "Open crash longs in: > > but > > No recent Projects > > since we don't build our standalones in xCode, we have not project, so no > way to view any of these crash logs. > > 1 crash total for iPad 4th Generation model > > So I am not seeing there the total of 90 is coming from in the analytics. > > IN any case, is there some way we can make these reports more useful in > terms of > > a) sending to LC HQ > b) figuring out what is going on that we should change in our LC scripting > (though a case could be made that if it is not crashing or breaking in the > IDE, then it Is not something we can fix in our LC code? > > ?? Any LC develop got all this figured out? > > BR > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 19 15:51:29 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 15:51:29 -0500 Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode In-Reply-To: <004001d378eb$49e24690$dda6d3b0$@net> References: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> <007801d36eda$587e1460$097a3d20$@net> <004001d378eb$49e24690$dda6d3b0$@net> Message-ID: Doesn't this sound like a good idea for the "Hacking the IDE series" at LCG? On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > BR, > > I've been a little under the weather so I can't test. I always rename/move > the most recent version of Xcode to another folder and download the most > recent one to the application folder and open it at least once. If you need > an older version then temporarily rename and move a more recent version to > another folder then download the older version and open it once in the > applications folder using the name xcode.app. Then rename/move the older > version and move the most recent back to applications folder and name it > Xcode.app. > > > This does not fix the building problem with the hardcoded build path and > the shared prefs in a LC version series. As I said the only way out of this > rigmarole is: > > 1) Have unique prefs for each LC version. These unique prefs might only > include the mobile prefs and let the other prefs be shared in a series > > 2) A way of indicating the Xcode version to use the build tools from. > > Things just move too quick not to do these 2 fixes. We have 2 or 3 active > LC branches being released along with OSX/iOS/Xcode versions out the > ying-yang not to do these 2 fixes. Have either of these 2 been added to the > QCC DB? If this could all be done in LCS I would work on it. I can't see a > downside. This would encourage me to do more testing with DPs and RCs. I > can't remember a contiguous 30 day period in the last 18 months that my iOS > prefs were stable. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:51 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami > Subject: Re: Versions of LC and Xcode > > Hmmm I seem to have gotten myself into the same fix as Ben. > > " Now that I have updated to LC 9.0 DP-10 and LC > 8.1.8 stable, nothing can build (except 8.1.6 stable - which unfortunately > doesn't like the widgets in my stack!)." > > I'm on High Sierra 10.13.6, Xcode 9.1 and LC is telling me I don't have > the required SDK > > @Ralph: I should start saving the old XCodes as you describe. > > so what now? Can we build for iOS on 9 dp 10 and if so, how? > > I?ll go and re-download the previous Xcode 9 from the developer portal? > see it that helps. > > BR > > > > > > On 12/6/17, 11:36 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via > use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > #1 below==>The shared prefs is a problem. I see the same thing. > Different prefs for each version would solve this. When a new version is > started for the first time the prefs from the last version in the series(if > any) should be copied to the new version prefs file. But the rub is... if > you change some other prefs and go to another version the you lose the > change. > #2 below==>True... I always keep the Xcode version to build from in > the applications folder and name it xcode.app. I put the other versions > into another folder. When I upgrade Xcode I move the most recent version > into my "OtherXcodeVersions" folder and rename it with the version number. > I then download and install the new version into the applications folder. > Of course I have to go into the LC prefs and fix the Xcode versions. The > hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app should come from the prefs. Radio > buttons in the Xcode prefs to indicate==> "Build using tools in this > version would solve this. > #3 below==> I agree the docs need to be updated matrix whenever a new > Xcode/Mac/LC version is released. Even if LC does not support a particular > combination it should be documented. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:16 PM > To: Use LiveCode > Cc: Ben Rubinstein > Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode > > This continues to be a major source of friction. > > Once again all my versions of LiveCode seem to have been reset so that > they can't find a version of Xcode they like. (At any time I am probably > switching between (or have simultaneously open) four version of LC: LC > 6.7.11; the latest stable version of 8; the latest 8 RC or sometimes DP; > the latest DP of 9. Admittedly I'm not building iOS apps from 6.7.11.) > > I think that there are two main problems: > > 1) Because preferences are shared between versions of LiveCode. I > believe it is the case than when switching between versions of LiveCode, if > the mobile support preferences are opened in a version of LC which doesn't > play nice with the selected version of Xcode, that path is deleted; so that > next time the version of LC which was previously happy is opened, the path > to Xcode is gone. > The behaviour may be a little more subtle than this, but I believe > something along these lines is correct. > > 2) Something somewhere along the line of building apps seems to have a > hardwired path to /Applications/Xcode.app; so that while I may be able to > maintain a set of different Xcodes in separate folders or separately named, > LiveCode won't entirely work this way. > > So currently I have XCode 8.3.3 as the 'canonical' version, probably > because I was using LiveCode 9.0 DP-9. Now that I have updated to LC 9.0 > DP-10 and LC > 8.1.8 stable, nothing can build (except 8.1.6 stable - which > unfortunately doesn't like the widgets in my stack!). > > 3) A third problem: I now want to start using LC 8.1.8, the latest > stable version; what version of Xcode does it use on Mas OS 10.12? > According to https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ : > > > LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 LiveCode > 8.1.8 > > RC-2 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 LiveCode 8.1.8 RC-2 ? Xcode > > 9.1 -Mac OS 10.12.6+ ? iOS 11.1 > > > > LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode 7.2 -Mac OS 10.10 ? iOS 9.2 LiveCode > 8.2.0 > > DP-1 ? Xcode 8.2 -Mac OS 10.11 ? iOS 10.2 LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 ? Xcode > > 8.3 -Mac OS 10.12 ? iOS 10.3 > > > Some things that would make this better: > > 1) When the mobile support preferences were opened, if there is a path > to a version of Xcode which this version of LC can't use, it would be > better if it were displayed - but in grey or red or similar to show it's > not usable - rather than being deleted, this would be better. > > 2) Ensure that iOS standalones can be built if there is a path to a > valid version of Xcode, regardless of that path. > > 3) Change the list on https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a- > question/ > to a table, with LiveCode versions on one axis, MacOS versions on the > other, and Xcode/iOS versions in each cell. > > 3b) Update the above to include the current stable 8.1.8! > > I'm off for a stiff drink... > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From alex at tweedly.net Tue Dec 19 17:49:25 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 22:49:25 +0000 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: References: <8BABE20B-1569-4EE1-8927-4252F0B879C4@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <86ba16c3-94ce-1e51-46ee-f9563bd9d4d6@tweedly.net> I think that, unfortunately, it's not going to be possible. I am 99% sure that I remember, either in the initial announcement or closely related to it, that Kevin mentioned that they (Livecode Ltd) pay a per-user (i.e. per-licence) fee to the third party for each tsNet - which means they have no way to be able to release it under the Community agreements. Alex. On 19/12/2017 20:13, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Matthias... thank you for your thoughts. > > I think my post was less about my own needs for that feature .... but in > general I'm seeing that Web API's are getting more and more capable and > will be more and more used by developers going forward. So being unable to > send more than one asyncronoys request to the same server is highly > limiting. > > So if livecode has any hope that their platform will ever be used for a > serious and extensive open source project, this is a deal breaker. > > As for me, I think I can work around this for my needs. .... for now. Like > I said, I have no choice in using the community version, so I'm not > conflicted as to what to do .... just gotta go forward. > > Thanks for your thoughts and Cheers, > > Tom > > > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Tom, please excuse for using the wrong name. >> >> Von meinem iPhone gesendet >> >>> Am 19.12.2017 um 13:13 schrieb Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> Todd, >>> i understand your desire to have such a feature in the Community >> Edition, but I don?t think this will happen in near future. >>> If i understood correctly then tsNET is a 3rd party product which >> Livecode Ltd. has acquired or however this is called. So they have paid >> money for that. >>> The tsNet external is really a big win for us and i think it is just >> fair that this is only included in the commercial licenses. >>> Why? Because there must be a difference between a free license and a >> paid license otherwise everyone would use the free one. >>> And there must be a feature difference between different Indy and >> Business license t for the same reason. >>> Btw. Xojo does it the same. The more you pay, the more you?ll get. With >> one exception, they are not offering a free version. >>> LibURL does and did its job more or less well for years. So at least >> there is the possibility to do asnynchronous operations. >>> Although i am a 1-man company and my revenues are less than $500,000 a >> year and although i have a lifetime Indy license i >>> have subscribed for a business license just because of its features and >> the possibility to get priority support if ever needed. >>> The indy license btw.allows only 1 seat per organisation. A Seat >> (regardless if Indy or Business) are for one named developer and >>> cannot be shared. If you need more seats you have to purchase a business >> license with the appropriate number of seats. >>> It seems not all customers are/were aware of these terms in the past. >> Otherwise Livecode Ltd. would not have sent out an email in October to all >>> Indy/Business customers with some information about the license terms >> and the requirement to sign a digital license agreement. >>> What i would vote for is to add SFTP (synchronous) feature to the >> Community Edition to allow secure FTP transfers. >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>>> Am 19.12.2017 um 00:50 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> I use the Community version for project, and recently I've been working >>>> with the LibURL Library to get some asynchronous server client >>>> communication going ...and if you've ever worked with that ...... its >> clear >>>> there is much room for improvement there. >>>> >>>> Though I have no choice what version to use, so I can only wait in >>>> patience, but I think for the long term health of the platform and to >> give >>>> it the modern robustness it needs, the tsnet library is going to have to >>>> become part of the community version. Otherwise it will always lag >> behind >>>> from being able to use modern internet APIs in combination. >>>> >>>> Is this something we would have to crowd fund? >>>> >>>> Is there anything legally preventing that from happening? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any thoughts >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> Matthias Rebbe >>> Tel +49 5741 310000 >>> ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 19 20:20:00 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 01:20:00 +0000 Subject: Analyzing Crashes on iOS Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79600E94-6F57-4055-9322-719C843B4FB0@hindu.org> For several early builds I was including iPad in SA settings but iPad users couldn't open because I did not include a splash screen to exact rect/spec. (SA builder did not object either?) I note the devices in some the of the crash report show "iPad 4th Generation Model" I wonder if the app opened and then "died" right away and this registered a crash? even though the user saw nothing? this has been fixed? odd thing is: app analytics shows Crashes: 90? but I only see a few reports, not 90? Mike wrote: I think you can also get crash reports if someone quits the app under certain conditions. From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 19 20:28:22 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 01:28:22 +0000 Subject: At this point, what's the shortest path to an iOS/Android app? In-Reply-To: <1606d76cb30.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <7208CE3C-5CE3-4EDE-86B6-E2B7DCC444F2@hindu.org> <1606d76cb30.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9C9B74E8-03D4-4AC8-B16B-B0D7FE92363C@hindu.org> Jacque: You will recall this was HQ's "hack" offered to us in the mix of hacks in our attempts to solve rendering issues on Android (which never did work in the end) where the stack being opened had AcceleratedRendering set to true? waiting *seemed* to help in some scenarios. With the fix in 8.1.9 RC1 we should try all these without the wait. Its interesting how the mind perceives even 200 milliseconds as "sluggish" On 12/18/17, 8:30 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: >c) once you accept the above, they you are good to go with > >on preopenstack > wait 200 milliseconds with messages > set the fullscreenmode of this stack to "showAll" >end preopenstack Just for the record, I've never needed the wait command. There's something about Swami's fairly complex setup that requires it but for a more straightforward implementation it doesn't seem necessary. I do like fullscreenmode though. It really does cut down on development time. From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 19 20:33:17 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 01:33:17 +0000 Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode In-Reply-To: References: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> <007801d36eda$587e1460$097a3d20$@net> <004001d378eb$49e24690$dda6d3b0$@net> Message-ID: <93FAE87E-F42E-4CE6-8898-648AE5883F17@hindu.org> @ Mike and Ralph Hmmm I jumped the gun? downloaded Xcode 9.0, then woke up this morning to find 8.1.9 RC1 as a Winter Solstice Candy Box from Scotland (Nandri/Mahalo!) 8.1.9 RC1 will let us use xCode 9.2 now? but saving a specific path to a specific xCode version could be useful? On 12/19/17, 10:52 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner via use-livecode" wrote: Doesn't this sound like a good idea for the "Hacking the IDE series" at LCG? From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Dec 19 21:50:11 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 21:50:11 -0500 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: <86ba16c3-94ce-1e51-46ee-f9563bd9d4d6@tweedly.net> References: <8BABE20B-1569-4EE1-8927-4252F0B879C4@m-r-d.de> <86ba16c3-94ce-1e51-46ee-f9563bd9d4d6@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Hi Alex, thats interesting thanks for that bit of information. I'm going to have to educate myself on this some more, maybe take a moment and write to kevin to find out from the boss. Cheers On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think that, unfortunately, it's not going to be possible. > > I am 99% sure that I remember, either in the initial announcement or > closely related to it, that Kevin mentioned that they (Livecode Ltd) pay a > per-user (i.e. per-licence) fee to the third party for each tsNet - which > means they have no way to be able to release it under the Community > agreements. > > Alex. > > > > On 19/12/2017 20:13, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi Matthias... thank you for your thoughts. >> >> I think my post was less about my own needs for that feature .... but in >> general I'm seeing that Web API's are getting more and more capable and >> will be more and more used by developers going forward. So being unable >> to >> send more than one asyncronoys request to the same server is highly >> limiting. >> >> So if livecode has any hope that their platform will ever be used for a >> serious and extensive open source project, this is a deal breaker. >> >> As for me, I think I can work around this for my needs. .... for now. >> Like >> I said, I have no choice in using the community version, so I'm not >> conflicted as to what to do .... just gotta go forward. >> >> Thanks for your thoughts and Cheers, >> >> Tom >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Tom, please excuse for using the wrong name. >>> >>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet >>> >>> Am 19.12.2017 um 13:13 schrieb Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < >>>> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> >>>> Todd, >>>> i understand your desire to have such a feature in the Community >>>> >>> Edition, but I don?t think this will happen in near future. >>> >>>> If i understood correctly then tsNET is a 3rd party product which >>>> >>> Livecode Ltd. has acquired or however this is called. So they have paid >>> money for that. >>> >>>> The tsNet external is really a big win for us and i think it is just >>>> >>> fair that this is only included in the commercial licenses. >>> >>>> Why? Because there must be a difference between a free license and a >>>> >>> paid license otherwise everyone would use the free one. >>> >>>> And there must be a feature difference between different Indy and >>>> >>> Business license t for the same reason. >>> >>>> Btw. Xojo does it the same. The more you pay, the more you?ll get. With >>>> >>> one exception, they are not offering a free version. >>> >>>> LibURL does and did its job more or less well for years. So at least >>>> >>> there is the possibility to do asnynchronous operations. >>> >>>> Although i am a 1-man company and my revenues are less than $500,000 a >>>> >>> year and although i have a lifetime Indy license i >>> >>>> have subscribed for a business license just because of its features and >>>> >>> the possibility to get priority support if ever needed. >>> >>>> The indy license btw.allows only 1 seat per organisation. A Seat >>>> >>> (regardless if Indy or Business) are for one named developer and >>> >>>> cannot be shared. If you need more seats you have to purchase a business >>>> >>> license with the appropriate number of seats. >>> >>>> It seems not all customers are/were aware of these terms in the past. >>>> >>> Otherwise Livecode Ltd. would not have sent out an email in October to >>> all >>> >>>> Indy/Business customers with some information about the license terms >>>> >>> and the requirement to sign a digital license agreement. >>> >>>> What i would vote for is to add SFTP (synchronous) feature to the >>>> >>> Community Edition to allow secure FTP transfers. >>> >>>> Matthias >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 19.12.2017 um 00:50 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode < >>>>> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: >>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I use the Community version for project, and recently I've been working >>>>> with the LibURL Library to get some asynchronous server client >>>>> communication going ...and if you've ever worked with that ...... its >>>>> >>>> clear >>> >>>> there is much room for improvement there. >>>>> >>>>> Though I have no choice what version to use, so I can only wait in >>>>> patience, but I think for the long term health of the platform and to >>>>> >>>> give >>> >>>> it the modern robustness it needs, the tsnet library is going to have to >>>>> become part of the community version. Otherwise it will always lag >>>>> >>>> behind >>> >>>> from being able to use modern internet APIs in combination. >>>>> >>>>> Is this something we would have to crowd fund? >>>>> >>>>> Is there anything legally preventing that from happening? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any thoughts >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> >>>> subscription preferences: >>> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> Matthias Rebbe >>>> Tel +49 5741 310000 >>>> ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> >>> subscription preferences: >>> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 20 03:25:24 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 00:25:24 -0800 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89911150-147c-aad2-3a22-a0972be3a0cd@fourthworld.com> Tom Glod wrote: > ...being unable to send more than one asyncronoys request to the same > server is highly limiting. Is it? DDoS tools aside , what APIs need more than one call at a time? And since LC is single-threaded, what do you anticipate doing with the data from the multiple requests as it comes in? This is a serious question. Most of my work is with small data (<200k) where latency even on shared hosts is minimal. But needs vary. I'm interested in understand the problem you're facing. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Wed Dec 20 04:22:23 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:22:23 +0100 Subject: Analyzing Crashes on iOS Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2017-12-19 21:19, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > One app report 90 crashes in iTunes connect among users who have opted > in. > a) sending to LC HQ If you can extract the text file versions of the logs (like you get from CrashReporter on Desktop), zip them up and attach them to a bug report then we can try and symbolicate them and take look to see what is causing the crash(es) your users are experiencing. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Dec 20 04:27:14 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 19:27:14 +1000 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: <89911150-147c-aad2-3a22-a0972be3a0cd@fourthworld.com> References: <89911150-147c-aad2-3a22-a0972be3a0cd@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, > Is it? > > DDoS tools aside , what APIs need more than one call at a time? Not that I am Tom, but many APIs need different calls to retrieve various pieces of information. Just as a simple example, if you are writing a weather app and you want to display on one screen the temperatures for multiple cities, you may have to make an API call for each city before you can render the entire screen. > And since LC is single-threaded, what do you anticipate doing with the data from the multiple requests as it comes in? The issue is usually that API calls can take time for the server to respond. By executing them in series, if you had to make 10 calls and each one takes 500ms, that is 5 seconds of delay. If you can send all 10 requests at once, you are likely to be waiting less than 1 second in total - which makes a significant improvement for user experience. > This is a serious question. Most of my work is with small data (<200k) where latency even on shared hosts is minimal. But needs vary. I'm interested in understand the problem you're facing. > This may not be the problem Tom is facing, but it is one I deal with regularly. Cheers. Charles > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tom at makeshyft.com Wed Dec 20 08:53:28 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:53:28 -0500 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: References: <89911150-147c-aad2-3a22-a0972be3a0cd@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Charles gave a perfect example of 1 api that could easily be called more than once. Another example is syncing files to dropbox, but also attempting to download one at the same time, or even just updating the list of files in the folder as it may be syncing files. also, using any of google's api's in combination will be problematic if not just slooooow. As I said, this is not a requirement for my current project, but for the next one, it will be. The platform will be able to integrate many apis so it is very likely that one at a time will not do, even if i don't know the specifics yet. i have a plan for a kind of workaround for this limitation by using Golang as the API caller and using "open process" to talk to it (which can be asynchronous as far as I know). the overhead should be manageable there. we shall see. Thank you both On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 4:27 AM, Charles Warwick via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Richard, > > > Is it? > > > > DDoS tools aside , what APIs need more than one call at a time? > > Not that I am Tom, but many APIs need different calls to retrieve various > pieces of information. Just as a simple example, if you are writing a > weather app and you want to display on one screen the temperatures for > multiple cities, you may have to make an API call for each city before you > can render the entire screen. > > > And since LC is single-threaded, what do you anticipate doing with the > data from the multiple requests as it comes in? > > The issue is usually that API calls can take time for the server to > respond. By executing them in series, if you had to make 10 calls and each > one takes 500ms, that is 5 seconds of delay. > > If you can send all 10 requests at once, you are likely to be waiting less > than 1 second in total - which makes a significant improvement for user > experience. > > > This is a serious question. Most of my work is with small data (<200k) > where latency even on shared hosts is minimal. But needs vary. I'm > interested in understand the problem you're facing. > > > > This may not be the problem Tom is facing, but it is one I deal with > regularly. > > Cheers. > > Charles > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com Wed Dec 20 09:43:21 2017 From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 14:43:21 +0000 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20171220144321.Horde.qofmAka_E75N_xphJA-Wnqe@ua850258.serversignin.com> > DDoS tools aside , what APIs need more than one call at a time? > I can think of a use in my (relatively) simple Indiana On Tap mobile app. Currently I fetch some mySQL data and download some images from a HostM account through their SSL API. The data is a couple of arrays with a 30-300 entries each and the images are between 5KB-200KB. Sometimes these fire off super fast back-to-back-to-back finishing in 3 or 4 seconds, but other times there is a network lag (I've scripted some tests and determined it isn't the app or the server process) and the entire process takes up 25 seconds. Just recently while testing some REST stuff I discovered how to do the async tsNet calls (I second whomever suggested crowd funding Charles to write some tutorial stacks!). I think by calling these commands async will allow me to speed up the app initialization process: no waiting for server reply between each request so I can move onto the 1st non-splash card of the app. The speed increase and ability to make multiple concurrent non-blocking calls is also the key to allowing "Enable Background Execution" of this app. This unexpected bonus benefit is YUGE as that has been a complaint about the app. --Andrew Bell From benr at cogapp.com Wed Dec 20 12:23:57 2017 From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:23:57 +0000 Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode In-Reply-To: <93FAE87E-F42E-4CE6-8898-648AE5883F17@hindu.org> References: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> <007801d36eda$587e1460$097a3d20$@net> <004001d378eb$49e24690$dda6d3b0$@net> <93FAE87E-F42E-4CE6-8898-648AE5883F17@hindu.org> Message-ID: <14afeb40-f137-8474-ac3b-3d6f5c39b937@cogapp.com> I've added an enhancement request http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20779 to keep all paths requested by the user (in the shared prefs), clearly indicating which ones are compatible with the version of LC in use. There's also an existing request http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18841 to report compatible Xcodes in the Mobile Support preferences, rather than in external documents or web pages which may or may not be up to date. If I was confident enough about my facts I'd like to raise a bug report about the behaviour which requires a copy of Xcode named "Xcode.app" (and in /Applications?) but I'm not sure of the details. Does anyone else have a clear picture of this? Many thanks, Ben On 20/12/2017 01:33, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > @ Mike and Ralph > > Hmmm I jumped the gun? downloaded Xcode 9.0, then woke up this morning to find 8.1.9 RC1 as a Winter Solstice Candy Box from Scotland (Nandri/Mahalo!) > > 8.1.9 RC1 will let us use xCode 9.2 now? > > but saving a specific path to a specific xCode version could be useful? > > > > On 12/19/17, 10:52 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner via use-livecode" wrote: > > Doesn't this sound like a good idea for the "Hacking the IDE series" at LCG? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Dec 20 13:19:24 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:19:24 -0500 Subject: Versions of LC and Xcode In-Reply-To: <14afeb40-f137-8474-ac3b-3d6f5c39b937@cogapp.com> References: <0d2a18f1-ccf9-dd2f-7c12-46e187328225@cogapp.com> <007801d36eda$587e1460$097a3d20$@net> <004001d378eb$49e24690$dda6d3b0$@net> <93FAE87E-F42E-4CE6-8898-648AE5883F17@hindu.org> <14afeb40-f137-8474-ac3b-3d6f5c39b937@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <002e01d379bf$136559c0$3a300d40$@net> LC looks for build tools from that hard coded path. It does not matter what Xcode entries are in the prefs this path(applications/xcode.app) is always used when building. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 12:24 PM To: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode Cc: Ben Rubinstein Subject: Re: Versions of LC and Xcode I've added an enhancement request http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20779 to keep all paths requested by the user (in the shared prefs), clearly indicating which ones are compatible with the version of LC in use. There's also an existing request http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18841 to report compatible Xcodes in the Mobile Support preferences, rather than in external documents or web pages which may or may not be up to date. If I was confident enough about my facts I'd like to raise a bug report about the behaviour which requires a copy of Xcode named "Xcode.app" (and in /Applications?) but I'm not sure of the details. Does anyone else have a clear picture of this? Many thanks, Ben On 20/12/2017 01:33, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > @ Mike and Ralph > > Hmmm I jumped the gun? downloaded Xcode 9.0, then woke up this morning > to find 8.1.9 RC1 as a Winter Solstice Candy Box from Scotland > (Nandri/Mahalo!) > > 8.1.9 RC1 will let us use xCode 9.2 now? > > but saving a specific path to a specific xCode version could be > useful? > > > > On 12/19/17, 10:52 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner via use-livecode" wrote: > > Doesn't this sound like a good idea for the "Hacking the IDE series" at LCG? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 13:31:35 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 20:31:35 +0200 Subject: Spending too much time in the bathroom with Danny Goodman Message-ID: <749f28ae-13f1-926c-2ebf-487eceae2043@gmail.com> For a variety of reasons I have a bookshelf in my bathroom. Over the last 3 or 4 days I have been reading parts of Danny Goodman's "The Complete HyperCard Handbook" for HC 2.2 that I have not read before (about 75% of the book), and learnt lots of things that are relevant to LiveCode that I did not previously know or have forgotten. {Earlier version: https://archive.org/details/The_Complete_HyperCard_Handbook] Anyway, I came across on returnInField and on enterInField which I found (this must go down as the ultimate example of reinventing the wheel) are also "there" in LiveCode, which is marvellous . . . But . . . as the children I code EFL programs for (and an awful lot of adults) treat the RETURN key and the ENTER key as functionally equivalent I will either: Have to endless reduplicate scripts for the RETURN and the ENTER key, or, erm, find a way to do something like this: on returnInField or EnterInField ? Richmond. From klaus at major-k.de Wed Dec 20 13:35:56 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 19:35:56 +0100 Subject: Spending too much time in the bathroom with Danny Goodman In-Reply-To: <749f28ae-13f1-926c-2ebf-487eceae2043@gmail.com> References: <749f28ae-13f1-926c-2ebf-487eceae2043@gmail.com> Message-ID: <045EBD0B-F3E6-4EBE-8B92-38FD99C0D963@major-k.de> Hi Richmond, > Am 20.12.2017 um 19:31 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode : > > ... > Anyway, I came across > on returnInField and > on enterInField > which I found (this must go down as the ultimate example of reinventing the wheel) > are also "there" in LiveCode, which is marvellous . . . > > But . . . > as the children I code EFL programs for (and an awful lot of adults) treat the > RETURN key and the ENTER key as functionally equivalent I will either: > Have to endless reduplicate scripts for the RETURN and the ENTER key, > or, erm, find a way to do something like this: > on returnInField or EnterInField > > ? I ususally script: on returninfield ## lots of code here... ## and here, too! ## and even more here... end returninfield on enterinfield returninfield end enterinfield :-) > Richmond. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 13:40:55 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 20:40:55 +0200 Subject: Spending too much time in the bathroom with Danny Goodman In-Reply-To: <045EBD0B-F3E6-4EBE-8B92-38FD99C0D963@major-k.de> References: <749f28ae-13f1-926c-2ebf-487eceae2043@gmail.com> <045EBD0B-F3E6-4EBE-8B92-38FD99C0D963@major-k.de> Message-ID: <4326a10a-1f0c-e46d-0858-d582a653e302@gmail.com> Slimme Duitse ergernissen slapen Scotsman. Thanks. Richmond. On 20/12/17 8:35 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 20.12.2017 um 19:31 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode : >> >> ... >> Anyway, I came across >> on returnInField and >> on enterInField >> which I found (this must go down as the ultimate example of reinventing the wheel) >> are also "there" in LiveCode, which is marvellous . . . >> >> But . . . >> as the children I code EFL programs for (and an awful lot of adults) treat the >> RETURN key and the ENTER key as functionally equivalent I will either: >> Have to endless reduplicate scripts for the RETURN and the ENTER key, >> or, erm, find a way to do something like this: >> on returnInField or EnterInField >> >> ? > I ususally script: > > on returninfield > ## lots of code here... > ## and here, too! > ## and even more here... > end returninfield > > on enterinfield > returninfield > end enterinfield > > :-) > >> Richmond. > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Dec 20 13:46:46 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 19:46:46 +0100 Subject: Spending too much time in the bathroom with Danny Goodman In-Reply-To: <4326a10a-1f0c-e46d-0858-d582a653e302@gmail.com> References: <749f28ae-13f1-926c-2ebf-487eceae2043@gmail.com> <045EBD0B-F3E6-4EBE-8B92-38FD99C0D963@major-k.de> <4326a10a-1f0c-e46d-0858-d582a653e302@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Richmond, > Am 20.12.2017 um 19:40 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode : > > Slimme Duitse ergernissen slapen Scotsman. well, OK? That makes as much sense as the deadly MP joke: Wenn ist das nun St?ck gitt und Schlottermeyer? - Ja: Bayer-Hund. Das, oder die Flipper-Wald Gesp?tt! :-D > Thanks. > > Richmond. > > On 20/12/17 8:35 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Richmond, >> >>> Am 20.12.2017 um 19:31 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode : >>> >>> ... >>> Anyway, I came across >>> on returnInField and >>> on enterInField >>> which I found (this must go down as the ultimate example of reinventing the wheel) >>> are also "there" in LiveCode, which is marvellous . . . >>> >>> But . . . >>> as the children I code EFL programs for (and an awful lot of adults) treat the >>> RETURN key and the ENTER key as functionally equivalent I will either: >>> Have to endless reduplicate scripts for the RETURN and the ENTER key, >>> or, erm, find a way to do something like this: >>> on returnInField or EnterInField >>> >>> ? >> I ususally script: >> >> on returninfield >> ## lots of code here... >> ## and here, too! >> ## and even more here... >> end returninfield >> >> on enterinfield >> returninfield >> end enterinfield Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Dec 20 15:14:41 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:14:41 -0500 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year Message-ID: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From klaus at major-k.de Wed Dec 20 15:22:35 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:22:35 +0100 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55BC0A72-5FA3-40EE-BD46-E6F38FE54D0F@major-k.de> Hi Mike, > Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : > > https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership (and us LC developers) for sure! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 15:25:02 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 22:25:02 +0200 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: <55BC0A72-5FA3-40EE-BD46-E6F38FE54D0F@major-k.de> References: <55BC0A72-5FA3-40EE-BD46-E6F38FE54D0F@major-k.de> Message-ID: Does this mean that the Macintosh computer interface will look like an iPad, or the other way round? I have a feeling that Apple will sink their desktop and laptop market if they make it end up looking like an iPad with a keyboard. Richmond. On 20/12/17 10:22 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Mike, > >> Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : >> >> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps > yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership > (and us LC developers) for sure! > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Wed Dec 20 15:31:42 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 20:31:42 +0000 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: References: <55BC0A72-5FA3-40EE-BD46-E6F38FE54D0F@major-k.de> Message-ID: Too soon to tell, but it could just be a way to more easily cross compile. Currently apps can be designed with separate UI for tablet/phone, so this would extend that to desktop too. Someone who has developed native code for both could probably speculate how it would look and work. On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:25 PM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Does this mean that the Macintosh computer interface will look like an > iPad, or the other > way round? > > I have a feeling that Apple will sink their desktop and laptop market if > they make it end > up looking like an iPad with a keyboard. > > Richmond. > > On 20/12/17 10:22 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > > >> Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > >> > >> > https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps > > yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership > > (and us LC developers) for sure! > > > > > > Best > > > > Klaus > > -- > > Klaus Major > > http://www.major-k.de > > klaus at major-k.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Dec 20 15:46:56 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 12:46:56 -0800 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: <55BC0A72-5FA3-40EE-BD46-E6F38FE54D0F@major-k.de> References: <55BC0A72-5FA3-40EE-BD46-E6F38FE54D0F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <345fec96-20dc-c9aa-3c36-50eec48e34fd@sonic.net> On 12/20/2017 12:22 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Mike, > >> Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode : >> >> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps > > yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership > (and us LC developers) for sure! Now would probably be a good time to plan on jumping ship and switching to linux. Just sayin... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Dec 20 16:00:38 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 16:00:38 -0500 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: <345fec96-20dc-c9aa-3c36-50eec48e34fd@sonic.net> References: <55BC0A72-5FA3-40EE-BD46-E6F38FE54D0F@major-k.de> <345fec96-20dc-c9aa-3c36-50eec48e34fd@sonic.net> Message-ID: Both of my brothers use Surface laptops, even though they are both mac/ios lovers. Their reasoning comes in two complaints: 1) The surface lets them annotate on the screen, pretty much any document they want, using the stylus, and 2) even though they can now do similar things on the ipad, the spreadsheet/word processing docs on the ipad aren't powerful enough, yet, and have clunky controls. Anyone who has tried to use an ipad for spreadsheets can feel their pain. So when I saw this announcement I immediately thought macbook air with a touchscreen, and the ipad becomes even more of a gaming/entertainment/personal TV/lives on the couch/content consumption product and the macbook remains the desk/stand-up desk/train content production product. On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/20/2017 12:22 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> >> Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: >>> >>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is- >>> said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps >>> >> >> yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership >> (and us LC developers) for sure! >> > > Now would probably be a good time to plan on jumping ship and switching to > linux. Just sayin... > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 16:17:35 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:17:35 +0200 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: <345fec96-20dc-c9aa-3c36-50eec48e34fd@sonic.net> References: <55BC0A72-5FA3-40EE-BD46-E6F38FE54D0F@major-k.de> <345fec96-20dc-c9aa-3c36-50eec48e34fd@sonic.net> Message-ID: Well, I jumped ship about 12 years ago: admittedly through financial necessity. The other way I cope is by using an iMac that runs Mac OS 10.7.5 (apart from my PPC machines). I do think that Apple's current obsession with producing fashion laptops for Paris Hilton lookalikes is a big mistake and Steve must be revolving in his grave at high speed. They may dumb their system down so much that they loose the small market share they have both with a moronic interface as well as the exorbitant price of their hardware. I do hope that, as well as Linux, other possibilities will come to the forefront (Haiku OS, anyone?) to prevent Microsoft becoming even more monopolistic. Richmond. On 20/12/17 10:46 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/20/2017 12:22 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Mike, >> >>> Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>> : >>> >>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps >>> >> >> yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership >> (and us LC developers) for sure! > > Now would probably be a good time to plan on jumping ship and > switching to linux. Just sayin... > From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 20 16:29:22 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:29:22 +0000 Subject: Analyzing Crashes on iOS Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ACB4BF2-7976-44DD-BA55-DD0113073EC0@hindu.org> FWIW I learned why iTunes connect show 90 crashes, but xcode only give me 6: That's because they only offer the crash files from the past two weeks. I guess this makes sense in a way? crashes from previous builds may not be that relevant. On 12/19/17, 11:22 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" wrote: If you can extract the text file versions of the logs (like you get from CrashReporter on Desktop), zip them up and attach them to a bug report then we can try and symbolicate them and take look to see what is causing the crash(es) your users are experiencing. From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 20 16:33:43 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:33:43 +0000 Subject: Analyzing Crashes on iOS Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48FD8853-A136-4DC4-B270-344AFEB2AAA8@hindu.org> Well, what we see in iTunes connect "90 crashes" is not reflected in xCode for the same app which only shows what appears to be, 6 reports. The only option offered is for me to symbolicate these and then I was able to get these six report out as text files, zipped and sent to you view support email. from Stack Overflow: "Oh, Apple always knows how to make our lives harder... Thanks, unfortunately it appears you can only get 2 weeks of crashes this way." BR On 12/19/17, 11:22 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" wrote: If you can extract the text file versions of the logs (like you get from CrashReporter on Desktop), zip them up and attach them to a bug report then we can try and symbolicate them and take look to see what is causing the crash(es) your users are experiencing. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 16:45:39 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:45:39 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.9 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow: I'm actually reading the release notes carefully . . . AND . . . I wonder . . . Does this: Specific extension bug fixes (8.1.9-rc-1) 20534 Ensure segmented widget created in LC 9.x opens in LC 8.1.x too mean that ALL widgets currently available in LC 9.0.0 DP 10 can be ported to LC 8.1.9 RC 1? And, if this is so then these widgets can be deployed in LiveCode on Macintosh systems which LC 9.0.0 no longer supports? Richmond. On 19/12/17 2:33 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Dear list members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1. > > Getting the Release > =================== > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via > the automatic updater. > > > Release Contents > ================ > > LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1 contains more than 20 bugfixes and improvements, > including: > > - Various crashes related to the acceleratedRendering property are now fixed > - Support for building with Xcode 9.2 (and using the latest iOS 11.2 SDK) > has been added, as well as the ability to set splash images and icon for > iPhone X. > - New versions of mergExt* and tsNet externals are included, addressing a > couple of bugs. > > > Notes: > > - Xcode 9.2 requires MacOS 10.12.6 or higher > > > The full release notes are available from: > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_9/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_9_rc_1.pdf > > > Feedback > ======== > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > Have fun! > The LiveCode Team > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Wed Dec 20 16:58:03 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:58:03 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.9 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No, that is specific to the feature that allows the orientation change in 9. The name was changed internally that was causing it to not load properly. This just means that a horizontal segmented widget will work between versions. A vertical one is not going to look right but won?t throw an error. On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:46 PM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Wow: I'm actually reading the release notes carefully . . . > > AND . . . > > I wonder . . . > > Does this: > > Specific extension bug fixes (8.1.9-rc-1) > 20534 Ensure segmented widget created in LC 9.x opens in LC 8.1.x too > > mean that ALL widgets currently available in LC 9.0.0 DP 10 can be > ported to LC 8.1.9 RC 1? > > And, if this is so then these widgets can be deployed in LiveCode > on Macintosh systems which LC 9.0.0 no longer supports? > > Richmond. > > On 19/12/17 2:33 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear list members, > > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1. > > > > Getting the Release > > =================== > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > via > > the automatic updater. > > > > > > Release Contents > > ================ > > > > LiveCode 8.1.9 RC-1 contains more than 20 bugfixes and improvements, > > including: > > > > - Various crashes related to the acceleratedRendering property are now > fixed > > - Support for building with Xcode 9.2 (and using the latest iOS 11.2 SDK) > > has been added, as well as the ability to set splash images and icon for > > iPhone X. > > - New versions of mergExt* and tsNet externals are included, addressing a > > couple of bugs. > > > > > > Notes: > > > > - Xcode 9.2 requires MacOS 10.12.6 or higher > > > > > > The full release notes are available from: > > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_9/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_9_rc_1.pdf > > > > > > Feedback > > ======== > > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > > > > Have fun! > > The LiveCode Team > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 20 17:59:08 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 14:59:08 -0800 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4258da0d-3e0c-5193-bff7-fc25c6eabcb3@fourthworld.com> Excellent thinking, Charles. Thanks for chiming in. Most of my net work has been on projects where I deliver both client and server, so I've too often had the luxury of working with APIs of my own design. You raise some good considerations there. Given the value of multiple connections, beyond replicating your excellent work with tsNet from scratch what would you recommend for developers in our community like Tom who prefer to release their work under GPL license? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Charles Warwick wrote: > Hi Richard, > >> Is it? >> >> DDoS tools aside , what APIs need more than one call at a time? > > Not that I am Tom, but many APIs need different calls to retrieve > various pieces of information. Just as a simple example, if you are > writing a weather app and you want to display on one screen the > temperatures for multiple cities, you may have to make an API call for > each city before you can render the entire screen. > >> And since LC is single-threaded, what do you anticipate doing with >> the data from the multiple requests as it comes in? > > The issue is usually that API calls can take time for the server to > respond. By executing them in series, if you had to make 10 calls and > each one takes 500ms, that is 5 seconds of delay. > > If you can send all 10 requests at once, you are likely to be waiting > less than 1 second in total - which makes a significant improvement > for user experience. > >> This is a serious question. Most of my work is with small data >> (<200k) where latency even on shared hosts is minimal. But needs >> vary. I'm interested in understand the problem you're facing. >> > > This may not be the problem Tom is facing, but it is one I deal with > regularly. > > Cheers. > > Charles From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 20 18:15:45 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:15:45 -0800 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: <20171220144321.Horde.qofmAka_E75N_xphJA-Wnqe@ua850258.serversignin.com> References: <20171220144321.Horde.qofmAka_E75N_xphJA-Wnqe@ua850258.serversignin.com> Message-ID: <15be66e4-5765-44c2-7e5f-ced72622c185@fourthworld.com> andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com wrote: >> DDoS tools aside , what APIs need more than one call at a time? >> > > I can think of a use in my (relatively) simple Indiana On Tap mobile > app. Currently I fetch some mySQL data and download some images from a > HostM account through their SSL API. The data is a couple of arrays > with a 30-300 entries each and the images are between 5KB-200KB. > Sometimes these fire off super fast back-to-back-to-back finishing in > 3 or 4 seconds, but other times there is a network lag (I've scripted > some tests and determined it isn't the app or the server process) and > the entire process takes up 25 seconds. > > Just recently while testing some REST stuff I discovered how to do the > async tsNet calls (I second whomever suggested crowd funding Charles > to write some tutorial stacks!). I think by calling these commands > async will allow me to speed up the app initialization process: no > waiting for server reply between each request so I can move onto the > 1st non-splash card of the app. > > The speed increase and ability to make multiple concurrent > non-blocking calls is also the key to allowing "Enable Background > Execution" of this app. This unexpected bonus benefit is YUGE as that > has been a complaint about the app. Good example there, Andrew. Thanks for that. I had a loosely-related need that isn't so much germain to this discussion as just another story of how LC's flexibility can impress people in the enterprise world where all they know is Java: One of the client-server systems I've delivered includes a media management library, where users can upload, modify, and select media files from a collection of ~3,000 JPEG and MP4 files. To provide the UI for that I wanted the list view to include thumbnails, but of course early on I realized I didn't want 3,000 separate HTTP requests to populate it. After playing around with a few different combinations of JPEG quality and resizing, I finally arrived at a solution that fit all those thumbnails into a single compressed LSON file. Between the image compression already in the JPEG data and the efficiency of Gzip for the array key names and metadata, the entire thumbnail archive takes up a mere 1.1 MB. So when our users open the media library, a single request to the server for a one-meg file populates a richly-visual DataGrid with thousands of items, all in just a couple seconds. From there they can filter and select flexibly, easily, and rapidly, since the entire archive is now local in RAM. Experimentation, deployment, and testing for both client and the server-side stuff to maintain the thumbnails took less than a day. Meanwhile, another team working for the same company was making a similar subsystem for another product, but in Java. Somehow putting all the thumbnails into a single array didn't occur to them, instead taking the more common route of getting each one in a separate HTTP request, and then having to use paging to limit the number of items that can be seen on screen at any given time. At the end of the day, they spent a heckuva lot more on their UI than I did on mine, and their users complain that it's slow and limited. I've tried suggesting LC to that team, but you know how it goes: "But Java is the standard." ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 20 18:22:41 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:22:41 -0800 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: <345fec96-20dc-c9aa-3c36-50eec48e34fd@sonic.net> References: <345fec96-20dc-c9aa-3c36-50eec48e34fd@sonic.net> Message-ID: <6e7d3d0d-cbf5-c21c-24cc-127514cca6f6@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Now would probably be a good time to plan on jumping ship and > switching to linux. Just sayin... Dive in, the water's fine. Anyone getting started using LC on Linux is encouraged to post questions you have along the way to the Linux section of the LC forums: http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=20 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 20 18:27:20 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:27:20 -0800 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56171abc-8d7f-6745-fb64-eea2a474a786@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > Both of my brothers use Surface laptops, even though they are both > mac/ios lovers. The latest Surface models are pretty awesome. Even most of my Linux friends want one, if only it didn't have enough MC-specific firmware to make a Linux install difficult. But no matter what OS a person enjoys most, I've never met anyone yet who spent time with a Surface and didn't lust after one. Good design, well executed. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Wed Dec 20 18:35:50 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:35:50 -0800 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <336212FB-574D-4E03-BF89-ABD1698426F0@pacifier.com> Is Apple going to have enough intelligence to make the ios compatible with the os desktop or will they do away with the desktop to make the new mac os like the ios? I have not been too impressed with Apple lately. If it is done right ti could be one of the best things they have done in years. JB > On Dec 20, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:01:54 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:01:54 -0800 Subject: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year In-Reply-To: <336212FB-574D-4E03-BF89-ABD1698426F0@pacifier.com> References: <336212FB-574D-4E03-BF89-ABD1698426F0@pacifier.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:35 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > Is Apple going to have enough intelligence to > make the ios compatible with the os desktop > or will they do away with the desktop to make > the new mac os like the ios? *shudder* I'd be back on FreeBSD in a couple of days. It's Spotlight and the power management on portables that has me using mac as my unix platform. OK, and iCloud Drive now. Mess with those (and spotlight has seriously regressed over the last ten years) and I'm gone. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From tom at makeshyft.com Wed Dec 20 22:00:16 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 22:00:16 -0500 Subject: non-blocking http ... will tsnet end up in community? In-Reply-To: <15be66e4-5765-44c2-7e5f-ced72622c185@fourthworld.com> References: <20171220144321.Horde.qofmAka_E75N_xphJA-Wnqe@ua850258.serversignin.com> <15be66e4-5765-44c2-7e5f-ced72622c185@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: It makes perfect sense that it is a strong reason to get a business license ...I have full respect as to why it currently is not part of the community edition. i also understand that for a lot of use cases, its perfectly fine. Just not in mine. Having said that, there has to be a solution, so the one I see in my mind is to use a process (written in Go (or copy and pasted is more like it)) to send the requests and receive the responses and give it back to me via a local socket .... no idea what performance will be like but it will be better than what is there now as far as trying to have high performance async http. I'm all ears if someone has a better idea. I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this .... lots to think about when making decisions about things. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 01:20:05 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 08:20:05 +0200 Subject: Time to get kinky Message-ID: Good; that grabbed your attention 8-) I always thought . . . . Here's a challenge: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27672&p=161638#p161638 A diagonally constrained grab. Richmond. From irog at mac.com Thu Dec 21 01:22:03 2017 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 22:22:03 -0800 Subject: Custom Property Message-ID: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> Please, how is it that a graphic can have a custom property that does not show up in the property inspector? Does the fact that the graphic has a behavior have anything to do with it? TFYH, Roger From monte at appisle.net Thu Dec 21 03:16:06 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:16:06 +1100 Subject: Custom Property In-Reply-To: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> References: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Roger If you could create a bug report with a stack containing the offending graphic that would be helpful Cheers Monte > On 21 Dec 2017, at 5:22 pm, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Please, how is it that a graphic can have a custom property that does not show up in the property inspector? Does the fact that the graphic has a behavior have anything to do with it? From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 05:30:26 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 12:30:26 +0200 Subject: Custom Property In-Reply-To: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> References: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> Message-ID: This is probably a totally goofy reply, but here goes: I just set up a stack with a graphic: grc "diamond" in LC 7.1.4 and then typed this into the Message Box: set the "GRUNT" of grc "diamond" to 123 and that, automagically created the property "GRUNT" and filled in its value. I saved the stack "CUSTOM Propz". -------------------------- In the 7.1.4 Property Inspector GRUNT showed up in the Custom Properties section. In the 8.1.8 Property Inspector GRUNT showed up in the Custom Properties section. So, nothing "thrilling" there. -------------------------- In LC 8.1.8 I added a button "Silly Button" to the stack and typed this into the Message Box: set the behavior of grc "diamond" to the long id of button "Silly Button" and opened the graphic's Property Inspector again: In the 8.1.8 Property Inspector GRUNT showed up in the Custom Properties section. ------------------------ So: 1. You have failed to set the Custom property. 2. Possibly (?) setting the Custom property AFTER setting the Behavior doesn't work. ------------------------ In LC 8.1.8 I setup a stack identical to the previous one: set the behavior FIRST then tried the Custom Prop: And the custom property showed up in the Custom Properties section. ---------------------- So: 1. Obviously it's #1 above, or something else. 2. Why am I doing this testing (which is very obvious indeed) when you could be doing it? Richmond. On 21/12/17 8:22 am, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Please, how is it that a graphic can have a custom property that does not show up in the property inspector? Does the fact that the graphic has a behavior have anything to do with it? > > TFYH, > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Thu Dec 21 11:08:58 2017 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 08:08:58 -0800 Subject: Custom Property In-Reply-To: References: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> Message-ID: <1A9B82AC-5433-466B-995C-2E5020E69FD4@mac.com> Thanks, Monty. Will do. > On Dec 21, 2017, at 12:16 AM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Roger > > If you could create a bug report with a stack containing the offending graphic that would be helpful > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 21 Dec 2017, at 5:22 pm, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Please, how is it that a graphic can have a custom property that does not show up in the property inspector? Does the fact that the graphic has a behavior have anything to do with it? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Thu Dec 21 11:17:44 2017 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 08:17:44 -0800 Subject: Custom Property In-Reply-To: References: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> Message-ID: <796975B3-8581-480D-BD16-ABD557DB0F51@mac.com> So sorry for your sacrifice, Richmond!! 1. I didn?t ask you specifically to do any testing. 2. You have no idea how much testing I did, nor the nature of it Roger > On Dec 21, 2017, at 2:30 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > 1. Obviously it's #1 above, or something else. > > 2. Why am I doing this testing (which is very obvious indeed) when you could be doing it? > > Richmond. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Dec 21 12:54:51 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 12:54:51 -0500 Subject: Android Answer Box Bug When Tapping Outside of Dialog In-Reply-To: <796975B3-8581-480D-BD16-ABD557DB0F51@mac.com> References: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> <796975B3-8581-480D-BD16-ABD557DB0F51@mac.com> Message-ID: <004f01d37a84$d05835f0$7108a1d0$@net> If you tap outside an answer box on Android the dialog disappears and "it" contains the right most option. "the result" is empty. I would think that the result(or "it") should return "Cancel". The result is empty whether you select an option or tap outside the dialog. This is a problem. Filing QCC.... Android Nougat LC 8.1.7 and 8.1.9 rc1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 12:58:37 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:58:37 +0200 Subject: Custom Property In-Reply-To: <796975B3-8581-480D-BD16-ABD557DB0F51@mac.com> References: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> <796975B3-8581-480D-BD16-ABD557DB0F51@mac.com> Message-ID: "Sacrifice" . . . I wasn't really complaining; just "laughing with you" as they say. I feel your pain 8-) Richmond. On 21/12/17 6:17 pm, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > So sorry for your sacrifice, Richmond!! > > 1. I didn?t ask you specifically to do any testing. > > 2. You have no idea how much testing I did, nor the nature of it > > > Roger > > > > >> On Dec 21, 2017, at 2:30 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> 1. Obviously it's #1 above, or something else. >> >> 2. Why am I doing this testing (which is very obvious indeed) when you could be doing it? >> >> Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 21 13:50:45 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:50:45 +0000 Subject: Datagrid Column Click Message-ID: <3AE16842-C59B-4F36-A044-327100B138FB@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I have a need to right-click on a datagrid column and get the name of the column, whether or not there is any data in it. I know this is not currently possible, as: put the mouseControl into tTargetNum put the name of tTargetNum into tTargetName will return graphic "dgAlternatingRows" if there is no data. I'm hoping to submit a feature request for the new "Super Duper Datagrid" currently in devemopment. How would I go about doing that? Bob S From mark at livecode.com Thu Dec 21 14:26:31 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:26:31 +0000 Subject: Datagrid Column Click In-Reply-To: <3AE16842-C59B-4F36-A044-327100B138FB@iotecdigital.com> References: <3AE16842-C59B-4F36-A044-327100B138FB@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <2066CEF5-3BD9-4464-A51D-B75E4A593379@livecode.com> File an enhancement request and I'll make sure Michael sees it - he's had his head buried in the DG for a while so he might be able to suggest a way to do it right now. It sounds like a useful thing to be able to do. Warmest Regards, Mark Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Dec 2017, at 18:50, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > I have a need to right-click on a datagrid column and get the name of the column, whether or not there is any data in it. I know this is not currently possible, as: > > put the mouseControl into tTargetNum > put the name of tTargetNum into tTargetName > > will return graphic "dgAlternatingRows" if there is no data. I'm hoping to submit a feature request for the new "Super Duper Datagrid" currently in devemopment. How would I go about doing that? > > Bob S > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Dec 21 14:37:46 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:37:46 +0000 Subject: TS Net Documentation Message-ID: <9579A566-E5CD-41EC-B767-33592C0797AB@hindu.org> an old theme "I want a printed dictionary?" As I peruse the dictionary TSNet is *huge* and complex?. Hunt and peck for what you have no clue will serve your needs gets tiring. Sometimes good old-fashioned "study for your exams" approach is a better way to go. And no, I don't want anything electronic. see the long discussion thread last year in October/November on this? But -- the PDF User Guide does not have a TS Net section I found this /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.9 (rc 1).app/Contents/Tools/Documentation/html_viewer/resources/data/api/api.sqlite and if I open the api.sqlite file in a DB browser? the entry data are binary blobs (What are those? LC array stores) And this: /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.9 (rc 1).app/Contents/Tools/Documentation/html_viewer/resources/data/api/distributed_api.js Not particularly user friendly for converting to a printed document: 112,014 lines of JSON data?but still hackable. but, before I write some jsonToArray + TSNet filter -> to text? to extract TSNet commands from the distributed_api.js @Charles do you have a PDF with all the TSNet commands and functions like we see in the dictionary? Or has anyone written widget to dump text form the dictionary? I'm not looking for anything fancy? BR From irog at mac.com Thu Dec 21 14:38:05 2017 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 11:38:05 -0800 Subject: Custom Property In-Reply-To: References: <59404DE7-4003-4573-A4C8-CB6D99540E1A@mac.com> <796975B3-8581-480D-BD16-ABD557DB0F51@mac.com> Message-ID: <2BFD9294-3CFE-45B4-A8EC-D67DECFDFEB8@mac.com> Thanks! :-) Actually there?s no pain . . . it?s easy to work around. I was just curious why a stack I?m playing with from dev at livecode exhibits this problem. Roger > On Dec 21, 2017, at 9:58 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > "Sacrifice" . . . I wasn't really complaining; just "laughing with you" as they say. > > I feel your pain 8-) > > Richmond. > > On 21/12/17 6:17 pm, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> So sorry for your sacrifice, Richmond!! >> >> 1. I didn?t ask you specifically to do any testing. >> >> 2. You have no idea how much testing I did, nor the nature of it >> >> >> Roger >> >> >> >> >>> On Dec 21, 2017, at 2:30 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> 1. Obviously it's #1 above, or something else. >>> >>> 2. Why am I doing this testing (which is very obvious indeed) when you could be doing it? >>> >>> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 14:40:19 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 11:40:19 -0800 Subject: mumbling towards a crash cause Message-ID: I *may* have just had an insight on a cause of IDE crashes. A moment after I changed a custom property, and before the stack was saved, I ran something else that accessed that property from a script. Or, it could be coincidence, but this may be consistent with some of met other crashes. Just throwing it out to check on collective experience and thoughts; I certainly don't have enough for a bug report yet. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Dec 21 15:45:47 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 12:45:47 -0800 Subject: Datagrid Column Click In-Reply-To: <3AE16842-C59B-4F36-A044-327100B138FB@iotecdigital.com> References: <3AE16842-C59B-4F36-A044-327100B138FB@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1ff98de8-248c-0dc9-6e39-ff311f93d871@sonic.net> On 12/21/2017 10:50 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all. > > I have a need to right-click on a datagrid column and get the name of the column, whether or not there is any data in it. While you're waiting for the enhancement, how about placing a (I don't know what you're populating the datagrid with) into the empty grid locations and setting the blendlevel to 0 so that it's not visible but still responds to mouse clicks? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 21 16:26:12 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:26:12 +0000 Subject: Datagrid Column Click In-Reply-To: <2066CEF5-3BD9-4464-A51D-B75E4A593379@livecode.com> References: <3AE16842-C59B-4F36-A044-327100B138FB@iotecdigital.com> <2066CEF5-3BD9-4464-A51D-B75E4A593379@livecode.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mark, but as usual, the idea would not leave me alone, and kept drilling into my subconscious so I made a way to do it. on mouseDown pButtonNum if pButtonNum <> 3 then pass mouseDown put getClickedColumn(the long id of me) into tClickedColumn end mouseDown function getClickedColumn pDGID put the mouseControl into tTargetNum put the name of tTargetNum into tTargetName put the left of pDGID into tLeftMargin put item 1 of pDGID mouseLoc into tMouseClick put (tMouseClick) - tLeftMargin into tColumnClick put the dgProp ["column widths"] of pDGID into tColumnRightEdges put the dgHscroll of pDGID into tHscroll subtract tHscroll from item 1 of tColumnRightEdges -- shift all column rights left by hscroll repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of tColumnRightEdges add item i-1 of tColumnRightEdges to item i of tColumnRightEdges end repeat -- find which column the mouse was clicked in repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of tColumnRightEdges if item i of tColumnRightEdges > tColumnClick then exit repeat end repeat put the dgProp ["columns"] of pDGID into tColumnNames put line i of tColumnNames into tClickedColumn return tClickedColumn end getClickedColumn Bob S > On Dec 21, 2017, at 11:26 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > File an enhancement request and I'll make sure Michael sees it - he's had his head buried in the DG for a while so he might be able to suggest a way to do it right now. It sounds like a useful thing to be able to do. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 21 Dec 2017, at 18:50, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi all. >> >> I have a need to right-click on a datagrid column and get the name of the column, whether or not there is any data in it. I know this is not currently possible, as: >> >> put the mouseControl into tTargetNum >> put the name of tTargetNum into tTargetName >> >> will return graphic "dgAlternatingRows" if there is no data. I'm hoping to submit a feature request for the new "Super Duper Datagrid" currently in devemopment. How would I go about doing that? >> >> Bob S >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 21 17:11:10 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:11:10 +0000 Subject: Datagrid Column Click In-Reply-To: <2066CEF5-3BD9-4464-A51D-B75E4A593379@livecode.com> References: <3AE16842-C59B-4F36-A044-327100B138FB@iotecdigital.com> <2066CEF5-3BD9-4464-A51D-B75E4A593379@livecode.com> Message-ID: <638A2CB5-1B49-4B6D-BE8B-FC70F753B2E6@iotecdigital.com> CODE CORRECTION: on mouseDown pButtonNum if pButtonNum <> 3 then pass mouseDown put getClickedColumn(the long id of me) into tClickedColumn end mouseDown function getClickedColumn pDGID put the mouseControl into tTargetNum put the name of tTargetNum into tTargetName put the left of pDGID into tLeftMargin put item 1 of the mouseLoc into tMouseClick put (tMouseClick) - tLeftMargin into tColumnClick put the dgProp ["column widths"] of pDGID into tColumnRightEdges put the dgHscroll of pDGID into tHscroll subtract tHscroll from item 1 of tColumnRightEdges -- shift all column rights left by hscroll repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of tColumnRightEdges add item i-1 of tColumnRightEdges to item i of tColumnRightEdges end repeat -- find which column the mouse was clicked in repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of tColumnRightEdges if item i of tColumnRightEdges > tColumnClick then exit repeat end repeat put the dgProp ["columns"] of pDGID into tColumnNames put line i of tColumnNames into tClickedColumn return tClickedColumn end getClickedColumn Bob S On Dec 21, 2017, at 11:26 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode > wrote: File an enhancement request and I'll make sure Michael sees it - he's had his head buried in the DG for a while so he might be able to suggest a way to do it right now. It sounds like a useful thing to be able to do. Warmest Regards, Mark Sent from my iPhone On 21 Dec 2017, at 18:50, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: Hi all. I have a need to right-click on a datagrid column and get the name of the column, whether or not there is any data in it. I know this is not currently possible, as: put the mouseControl into tTargetNum put the name of tTargetNum into tTargetName will return graphic "dgAlternatingRows" if there is no data. I'm hoping to submit a feature request for the new "Super Duper Datagrid" currently in devemopment. How would I go about doing that? Bob S _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Dec 21 22:10:22 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 03:10:22 +0000 Subject: Editing library script with TSNet "running" Message-ID: <571110BC-719C-409D-92B8-DDB04A123229@hindu.org> If I try to edit handlers in a global backscript that has some TSNet callback handlers? I always get stack "lib_SivaSiva": execution error at line 1547 (Object: can't set scxript while it is executing), char 1 I have no way now to change this script, except to exit, quit LC and edit by hand, then reboot? cmd period doesn't help us. the IDE just beeps if I shut down and comment out my call back (which is set by another script/behavior that init's the whole framework) # command netWorkTransferStatus # put "transfer identifier,status,downloaded,total download,uploaded,total upload" into tNetStatusItems # # see dictionary entry for definitions these are the 6 params passed by TSNet to the call back. # # for now we are just monitoring problems in param 2 - status # put param(2) into tRequestStatus # put "error,timeout" into tNetConnectionIssues # if tRequestStatus is among the items of tNetConnectionIssues then # put "You have connection issues: " & tRequestStatus into tNetUpdate # dialog_CustomMsg tNetUpdate # end if # end netWorkTransferStatus then I can freely edit the script. The above is also causing some lock ups on iOS. but now that I'm "back" in 8.1.7 RC1 we don't have remote debugging? so what I thought was going to be easy it now obscure. BR From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Dec 21 22:39:30 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:39:30 -0800 Subject: Editing library script with TSNet "running" In-Reply-To: <571110BC-719C-409D-92B8-DDB04A123229@hindu.org> References: <571110BC-719C-409D-92B8-DDB04A123229@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 12/21/2017 07:10 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > If I try to edit handlers in a global backscript that has some TSNet callback handlers? I always get > > stack "lib_SivaSiva": execution error at line 1547 (Object: can't set scxript while it is executing), char 1 There is, as far as I can tell, (and I've ranted about this before) no way out of the "can't set script while it is executing" error. You have to quit LC if you can and lose any unsaved work. > > I have no way now to change this script, except to exit, quit LC and edit by hand, then reboot? cmd period doesn't help us. the IDE just beeps > > if I shut down and comment out my call back (which is set by another script/behavior that init's the whole framework) > > # command netWorkTransferStatus > # put "transfer identifier,status,downloaded,total download,uploaded,total upload" into tNetStatusItems > # # see dictionary entry for definitions these are the 6 params passed by TSNet to the call back. > # # for now we are just monitoring problems in param 2 - status > # put param(2) into tRequestStatus > # put "error,timeout" into tNetConnectionIssues > # if tRequestStatus is among the items of tNetConnectionIssues then > # put "You have connection issues: " & tRequestStatus into tNetUpdate > # dialog_CustomMsg tNetUpdate > # end if > # end netWorkTransferStatus From that snippet of code it looks to me like you have set things up to get a netWorkTransferStatus callback for *every* tsNet call, no matter whether it was successful or not. I don't know how you have set up your initialization or other tsNet calls, but can you maybe cancel pending messages, perhaps by creating a handler that does this and then calling it from a button or message box? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Dec 22 08:18:59 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 13:18:59 +0000 Subject: TS Net Documentation In-Reply-To: <9579A566-E5CD-41EC-B767-33592C0797AB@hindu.org> References: <9579A566-E5CD-41EC-B767-33592C0797AB@hindu.org> Message-ID: Check out /Contents/Tools/Ext/tsNet.../api.lcdoc for all the tsNet things in one file - hopefully that's roughly what you're looking for On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 7:37 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > an old theme "I want a printed dictionary?" > > As I peruse the dictionary TSNet is *huge* and complex?. Hunt and peck for > what you have no clue will serve your needs gets tiring. Sometimes good > old-fashioned "study for your exams" approach is a better way to go. > > And no, I don't want anything electronic. see the long discussion thread > last year in October/November on this? > > But -- the PDF User Guide does not have a TS Net section > > I found this > > /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.9 (rc > 1).app/Contents/Tools/Documentation/html_viewer/resources/data/api/api.sqlite > > and if I open the api.sqlite file in a DB browser? the entry data are > binary blobs (What are those? LC array stores) > > And this: > > /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.9 (rc > 1).app/Contents/Tools/Documentation/html_viewer/resources/data/api/distributed_api.js > > Not particularly user friendly for converting to a printed document: > 112,014 lines of JSON data?but still hackable. > > but, before I write some jsonToArray + TSNet filter -> to text? to > extract TSNet commands from the distributed_api.js > > @Charles do you have a PDF with all the TSNet commands and functions like > we see in the dictionary? > Or has anyone written widget to dump text form the dictionary? I'm not > looking for anything fancy? > > > BR > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Dec 22 08:45:19 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 06:45:19 -0700 (MST) Subject: mumbling towards a crash cause In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1513950319535-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi. I have never seen an issue with accessing a custom property immediately after it was created, and before the stack was saved. Craig Newman -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From panos.merakos at livecode.com Fri Dec 22 09:31:23 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 14:31:23 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. Developer Preview Release ========================= Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure that you back up your stacks before testing them. Getting the Release =================== You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via the automatic updater. Release Contents ================ LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 comes with more than 40 bugfixes. Moreover, more than 90 bugfixes that were fixed in LiveCode 8.1.x and 8.2.x, are now merged into LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. In addition, LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 includes several amazing new features: - Great progress on Obj-C FFI: support for dynamic instance binding, dynamic property binding and delegate support is added. With LCB, you can easily wrap an API of your choice and use it from LiveCode Script. For example, see the code in http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20733, which wraps NSUserNotification, used to send a notification. - Target folder variant of the detailed files and the detailed folders: The files() and folders() function now have a second optional argument, allowing ?detailed? to be specified. - Image Object SVG support: Include high quality SVG images at a very small cost on the standalone size - HTML5 windowing: This allows tooltips, dialogs, and pop-up menus to work within the HTML5 engine. This also allows multiple stacks to be opened on the HTML5 page. - Windows cameraControl enhancements: Support to the windows camera control for exposure, focus and white balance mode properties has been added. - Data Grid 2 visual / interactive elements: datagrid edit mode swipe actions / drag reordering - New LCB syntax: added support for "the architecture", "trigger all" and access to system error - Android AAR support: Add support for AAR files as extension dependencies - Android manifest merging: An android manifest merging mechanism has been added to the android standalone builder. This enables manifests to be included in extension jvm-android code folders which are then merged into the main manifest at build time. - Android Toast Notification Library - Extension code library support: Extensions can now include compiled libraries on which they depend. - New Native Map Widget for Android, iOS and Mac 64 bit (Indy+) - New Signature Widget for all platforms (Indy+) - New SecureKey Library for Android, iOS and Mac (Business): The SecureKey library provides a way to encrypt data with a private key which is held securely on the device and tied to the application owning it. - New Media Foundation External (Business): A new external has been implemented to allow transcoding and basic editing of videos on Windows. The external supports Windows 8.1+. - Browser Widget now works again in 64 bit Linux - Browser Widget now works in 32 bit Linux as well :) Last, but not least, LC 9.0.0 DP-11 includes a new version of our prebuilt OpenSSL library, new versions of tsNet and mergExt* externals, as well as support for the latest version of Xcode (9.2). For more details on this release, read Ali's exciting blogpost: https://livecode.com/livecode-9-the-final-preview/ Important Note: The shortcuts for Autocomplete have changed, since they were conflicting with existing shortcuts in some platforms. So, now: - The F1 key (or Fn+F1 in some keyboards) is now used for presenting autocomplete when the user has the live autocomplete preference off. If the completions pane is already presented, the F1 key will launch the dictionary if the chosen completion is documented. - The tab key is now used to apply the completion, or to move to the next placeholder. Known issues ================ - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with Cinnamon window manager. - DataGrid swipe (and drag-reorder) actions seem to interfere with the scroller on Android, requiring an additional swipe (and drag-reorder) action to make it work. This will be fixed in next release. - You might not be able to run HTML5 standalones locally using the most recent version of Safari or Chrome (Firefox is OK). This is due to those browsers now prohibiting cross-origin-requests. To test out standalones locally using these browser, we suggest using a local HTTP server as described in the HTML5 deployment guide. However, this will not be a problem if you use the new HTML5 deployment library, which does this for you: You just have to choose one of the installed browsers (click on the "Development -> Test Target" menu item), and then click on the "Test" button. - Although the Mac MapKit API is supported from OS X 10.9 onwards, Apple restricts use of the API on 10.9 and 10.10 to apps which are distributed from the Mac AppStore with an appropriate entitlement. Due to this, general use of the Map widget only supports OS X 10.11 onwards. - Setting the text of an image to a SVG file *dynamically* in a *standalone* does not work on Windows. Probably a path-related issue, which will be fixed in the next release. It does work in the IDE, as well as in standalones for the other desktop platforms. - In the release notes, the SecureKey library, as well as the Script Profiler library, are in the section "LiveCode Indy Extension changes". This is incorrect, as these features are only available in the Business edition. The full release notes are available from: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_11.pdf Feedback ======== Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 Have fun! The LiveCode Team -- From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Dec 22 10:23:55 2017 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 08:23:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1513956235311-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Congratulations and thanks to the whole LiveCode team on getting this release out before the holidays! You deserve a good rest over the holidays. Best to all of you and your families. Martin -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Dec 22 10:30:15 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:30:15 +0000 Subject: Popup Menus from another card Message-ID: Hi all. I am trying to popup a menu from another card. It isn't popping up. Here is the code. Is there a problem doing this?? on mouseDown pButtonNum if pButtonNum <> 3 then pass mouseDown put the long id of button "dgcontextual" of card "behaviors" of homeStack() into tPopupMenu popup tPopupMenu end mouseDown I checked to make sure that tPopupMenu contains the long id of the popup menu (so yes homeStack() works. It's just not popping up the menu. If I copy the button to the card I am on and use that button, it works fine. Bob S From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Dec 22 10:30:36 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 10:30:36 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: <1513956235311-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1513956235311-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: congrats...huge milestone...can't wait for a stable release so i can use it with my project....i will test through and give feedback. is there a timeframe for a non dp or rc 9.0 release? great job livecode team. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Congratulations and thanks to the whole LiveCode team on getting this > release > out before the holidays! You deserve a good rest over the holidays. Best > to all of you and your families. > > Martin > > > > -- > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 22 10:47:05 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 09:47:05 -0600 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1607ee80ca8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Amazing, fabulous! There's something for everyone in there and this really is a marvelous gift. Thank you so much team, you're the best. An Android toast to you all! -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 22, 2017 8:33:43 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Dear list members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. > > Developer Preview Release > ========================= > Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure that you back up your > stacks before testing them. > > > Getting the Release > =================== > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via > the automatic updater. > > > Release Contents > ================ > LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 comes with more than 40 bugfixes. Moreover, more than > 90 bugfixes that were fixed in LiveCode 8.1.x and 8.2.x, are now merged > into LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. > > In addition, LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 includes several amazing new features: > > - Great progress on Obj-C FFI: support for dynamic instance binding, > dynamic property binding and delegate support is added. With LCB, you can > easily wrap an API of your choice and use it from LiveCode Script. For > example, see the code in http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20733, > which wraps NSUserNotification, used to send a notification. > - Target folder variant of the detailed files and the detailed folders: The > files() and folders() function now have a second optional argument, > allowing ?detailed? to be specified. > - Image Object SVG support: Include high quality SVG images at a very small > cost on the standalone size > - HTML5 windowing: This allows tooltips, dialogs, and pop-up menus to work > within the HTML5 engine. This also allows multiple stacks to be opened on > the HTML5 page. > - Windows cameraControl enhancements: Support to the windows camera control > for exposure, focus and white balance mode properties has been added. > - Data Grid 2 visual / interactive elements: datagrid edit mode swipe > actions / drag reordering > - New LCB syntax: added support for "the architecture", "trigger all" and > access to system error > - Android AAR support: Add support for AAR files as extension dependencies > - Android manifest merging: An android manifest merging mechanism has been > added to the android standalone builder. This enables manifests to be > included in extension jvm-android code folders which are then merged into > the main > manifest at build time. > - Android Toast Notification Library > - Extension code library support: Extensions can now include compiled > libraries on which they depend. > - New Native Map Widget for Android, iOS and Mac 64 bit (Indy+) > - New Signature Widget for all platforms (Indy+) > - New SecureKey Library for Android, iOS and Mac (Business): The SecureKey > library provides a way to encrypt data with a private key which is held > securely on the device and tied to the application owning it. > - New Media Foundation External (Business): A new external has been > implemented to allow transcoding and basic editing of videos on Windows. > The external supports Windows 8.1+. > - Browser Widget now works again in 64 bit Linux > - Browser Widget now works in 32 bit Linux as well :) > > Last, but not least, LC 9.0.0 DP-11 includes a new version of our prebuilt > OpenSSL library, new versions of tsNet and mergExt* externals, as well as > support for the latest version of Xcode (9.2). > > For more details on this release, read Ali's exciting blogpost: > > https://livecode.com/livecode-9-the-final-preview/ > > Important Note: The shortcuts for Autocomplete have changed, since they > were conflicting with existing shortcuts in some platforms. So, now: > > - The F1 key (or Fn+F1 in some keyboards) is now used for presenting > autocomplete when the user has the live autocomplete preference off. If the > completions pane is already presented, the F1 key will launch the > dictionary if the chosen completion is documented. > - The tab key is now used to apply the completion, or to move to the next > placeholder. > > > Known issues > ================ > - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with > Cinnamon window manager. > - DataGrid swipe (and drag-reorder) actions seem to interfere with the > scroller on Android, requiring an additional swipe (and drag-reorder) > action to make it work. This will be fixed in next release. > - You might not be able to run HTML5 standalones locally using the most > recent version of Safari or Chrome (Firefox is OK). This is due to those > browsers now prohibiting cross-origin-requests. To test out standalones > locally using these browser, we suggest using a local HTTP server as > described in the HTML5 deployment guide. However, this will not be a > problem if you use the new HTML5 deployment library, which does this for > you: You just have to choose one of the installed browsers (click on the > "Development -> Test Target" menu item), and then click on the "Test" > button. > - Although the Mac MapKit API is supported from OS X 10.9 onwards, Apple > restricts use of the API on 10.9 and 10.10 to apps which are distributed > from the Mac AppStore with an appropriate entitlement. Due to this, general > use of the Map widget only supports OS X 10.11 onwards. > - Setting the text of an image to a SVG file *dynamically* in a > *standalone* does not work on Windows. Probably a path-related issue, which > will be fixed in the next release. It does work in the IDE, as well as in > standalones for the other desktop platforms. > - In the release notes, the SecureKey library, as well as the Script > Profiler library, are in the section "LiveCode Indy Extension changes". > This is incorrect, as these features are only available in the Business > edition. > > The full release notes are available from: > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_11.pdf > > > Feedback > ======== > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 > > Have fun! > The LiveCode Team > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Dec 22 10:54:24 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 10:54:24 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901d37b3d$2651e880$72f5b980$@net> Wheeeeeeee.... You folks rock! I feel like the xmas I got my first Heathkit oscilloscope. I spent the entire first day building it and the next year using it. Excitement on both fronts just like dp11 will. Margaret and I send our best wishes to the mother ship and all you good people on the list. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:31 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: panagiotis merakos Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. Developer Preview Release ========================= Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure that you back up your stacks before testing them. Getting the Release =================== You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via the automatic updater. Release Contents ================ LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 comes with more than 40 bugfixes. Moreover, more than 90 bugfixes that were fixed in LiveCode 8.1.x and 8.2.x, are now merged into LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. In addition, LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 includes several amazing new features: - Great progress on Obj-C FFI: support for dynamic instance binding, dynamic property binding and delegate support is added. With LCB, you can easily wrap an API of your choice and use it from LiveCode Script. For example, see the code in http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20733, which wraps NSUserNotification, used to send a notification. - Target folder variant of the detailed files and the detailed folders: The files() and folders() function now have a second optional argument, allowing ?detailed? to be specified. - Image Object SVG support: Include high quality SVG images at a very small cost on the standalone size - HTML5 windowing: This allows tooltips, dialogs, and pop-up menus to work within the HTML5 engine. This also allows multiple stacks to be opened on the HTML5 page. - Windows cameraControl enhancements: Support to the windows camera control for exposure, focus and white balance mode properties has been added. - Data Grid 2 visual / interactive elements: datagrid edit mode swipe actions / drag reordering - New LCB syntax: added support for "the architecture", "trigger all" and access to system error - Android AAR support: Add support for AAR files as extension dependencies - Android manifest merging: An android manifest merging mechanism has been added to the android standalone builder. This enables manifests to be included in extension jvm-android code folders which are then merged into the main manifest at build time. - Android Toast Notification Library - Extension code library support: Extensions can now include compiled libraries on which they depend. - New Native Map Widget for Android, iOS and Mac 64 bit (Indy+) - New Signature Widget for all platforms (Indy+) - New SecureKey Library for Android, iOS and Mac (Business): The SecureKey library provides a way to encrypt data with a private key which is held securely on the device and tied to the application owning it. - New Media Foundation External (Business): A new external has been implemented to allow transcoding and basic editing of videos on Windows. The external supports Windows 8.1+. - Browser Widget now works again in 64 bit Linux - Browser Widget now works in 32 bit Linux as well :) Last, but not least, LC 9.0.0 DP-11 includes a new version of our prebuilt OpenSSL library, new versions of tsNet and mergExt* externals, as well as support for the latest version of Xcode (9.2). For more details on this release, read Ali's exciting blogpost: https://livecode.com/livecode-9-the-final-preview/ Important Note: The shortcuts for Autocomplete have changed, since they were conflicting with existing shortcuts in some platforms. So, now: - The F1 key (or Fn+F1 in some keyboards) is now used for presenting autocomplete when the user has the live autocomplete preference off. If the completions pane is already presented, the F1 key will launch the dictionary if the chosen completion is documented. - The tab key is now used to apply the completion, or to move to the next placeholder. Known issues ================ - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with Cinnamon window manager. - DataGrid swipe (and drag-reorder) actions seem to interfere with the scroller on Android, requiring an additional swipe (and drag-reorder) action to make it work. This will be fixed in next release. - You might not be able to run HTML5 standalones locally using the most recent version of Safari or Chrome (Firefox is OK). This is due to those browsers now prohibiting cross-origin-requests. To test out standalones locally using these browser, we suggest using a local HTTP server as described in the HTML5 deployment guide. However, this will not be a problem if you use the new HTML5 deployment library, which does this for you: You just have to choose one of the installed browsers (click on the "Development -> Test Target" menu item), and then click on the "Test" button. - Although the Mac MapKit API is supported from OS X 10.9 onwards, Apple restricts use of the API on 10.9 and 10.10 to apps which are distributed from the Mac AppStore with an appropriate entitlement. Due to this, general use of the Map widget only supports OS X 10.11 onwards. - Setting the text of an image to a SVG file *dynamically* in a *standalone* does not work on Windows. Probably a path-related issue, which will be fixed in the next release. It does work in the IDE, as well as in standalones for the other desktop platforms. - In the release notes, the SecureKey library, as well as the Script Profiler library, are in the section "LiveCode Indy Extension changes". This is incorrect, as these features are only available in the Business edition. The full release notes are available from: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_11.pdf Feedback ======== Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 Have fun! The LiveCode Team -- _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Dec 22 11:10:00 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 11:10:00 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: <003901d37b3d$2651e880$72f5b980$@net> References: <003901d37b3d$2651e880$72f5b980$@net> Message-ID: Thanks for ruining it for me, Ralph. Any thought of analog makes me ill. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Wheeeeeeee.... > You folks rock! > > I feel like the xmas I got my first Heathkit oscilloscope. I spent the > entire first day building it and the next year using it. Excitement on both > fronts just like dp11 will. > > Margaret and I send our best wishes to the mother ship and all you good > people on the list. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:31 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: panagiotis merakos > Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 > > Dear list members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. > > Developer Preview Release > ========================= > Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure that you back up > your stacks before testing them. > > > Getting the Release > =================== > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > via the automatic updater. > > > Release Contents > ================ > LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 comes with more than 40 bugfixes. Moreover, more than > 90 bugfixes that were fixed in LiveCode 8.1.x and 8.2.x, are now merged > into LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. > > In addition, LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 includes several amazing new features: > > - Great progress on Obj-C FFI: support for dynamic instance binding, > dynamic property binding and delegate support is added. With LCB, you can > easily wrap an API of your choice and use it from LiveCode Script. For > example, see the code in http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20733 > , > which wraps NSUserNotification, used to send a notification. > - Target folder variant of the detailed files and the detailed folders: The > files() and folders() function now have a second optional argument, > allowing ?detailed? to be specified. > - Image Object SVG support: Include high quality SVG images at a very > small cost on the standalone size > - HTML5 windowing: This allows tooltips, dialogs, and pop-up menus to work > within the HTML5 engine. This also allows multiple stacks to be opened on > the HTML5 page. > - Windows cameraControl enhancements: Support to the windows camera > control for exposure, focus and white balance mode properties has been > added. > - Data Grid 2 visual / interactive elements: datagrid edit mode swipe > actions / drag reordering > - New LCB syntax: added support for "the architecture", "trigger all" and > access to system error > - Android AAR support: Add support for AAR files as extension dependencies > - Android manifest merging: An android manifest merging mechanism has been > added to the android standalone builder. This enables manifests to be > included in extension jvm-android code folders which are then merged into > the main manifest at build time. > - Android Toast Notification Library > - Extension code library support: Extensions can now include compiled > libraries on which they depend. > - New Native Map Widget for Android, iOS and Mac 64 bit (Indy+) > - New Signature Widget for all platforms (Indy+) > - New SecureKey Library for Android, iOS and Mac (Business): The SecureKey > library provides a way to encrypt data with a private key which is held > securely on the device and tied to the application owning it. > - New Media Foundation External (Business): A new external has been > implemented to allow transcoding and basic editing of videos on Windows. > The external supports Windows 8.1+. > - Browser Widget now works again in 64 bit Linux > - Browser Widget now works in 32 bit Linux as well :) > > Last, but not least, LC 9.0.0 DP-11 includes a new version of our prebuilt > OpenSSL library, new versions of tsNet and mergExt* externals, as well as > support for the latest version of Xcode (9.2). > > For more details on this release, read Ali's exciting blogpost: > > https://livecode.com/livecode-9-the-final-preview/ > > Important Note: The shortcuts for Autocomplete have changed, since they > were conflicting with existing shortcuts in some platforms. So, now: > > - The F1 key (or Fn+F1 in some keyboards) is now used for presenting > autocomplete when the user has the live autocomplete preference off. If the > completions pane is already presented, the F1 key will launch the > dictionary if the chosen completion is documented. > - The tab key is now used to apply the completion, or to move to the next > placeholder. > > > Known issues > ================ > - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros > with Cinnamon window manager. > - DataGrid swipe (and drag-reorder) actions seem to interfere with the > scroller on Android, requiring an additional swipe (and drag-reorder) > action to make it work. This will be fixed in next release. > - You might not be able to run HTML5 standalones locally using the most > recent version of Safari or Chrome (Firefox is OK). This is due to those > browsers now prohibiting cross-origin-requests. To test out standalones > locally using these browser, we suggest using a local HTTP server as > described in the HTML5 deployment guide. However, this will not be a > problem if you use the new HTML5 deployment library, which does this for > you: You just have to choose one of the installed browsers (click on the > "Development -> Test Target" menu item), and then click on the "Test" > button. > - Although the Mac MapKit API is supported from OS X 10.9 onwards, Apple > restricts use of the API on 10.9 and 10.10 to apps which are distributed > from the Mac AppStore with an appropriate entitlement. Due to this, general > use of the Map widget only supports OS X 10.11 onwards. > - Setting the text of an image to a SVG file *dynamically* in a > *standalone* does not work on Windows. Probably a path-related issue, > which will be fixed in the next release. It does work in the IDE, as well > as in standalones for the other desktop platforms. > - In the release notes, the SecureKey library, as well as the Script > Profiler library, are in the section "LiveCode Indy Extension changes". > This is incorrect, as these features are only available in the Business > edition. > > The full release notes are available from: > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_11.pdf > > > Feedback > ======== > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 > > Have fun! > The LiveCode Team > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Dec 22 11:24:50 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 11:24:50 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <003901d37b3d$2651e880$72f5b980$@net> Message-ID: I'm sure someone already asked this: Why not have one native button, that when we build for platform x compiles for that platform? We have a mac button, an android button, and an ios button. We have an android field, a mac field (no ios field)... I can't wait for someone to hack the navigation bar so you can add whatever icons you like. I've looked at doing it, but it's not on the front burner. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Thanks for ruining it for me, Ralph. Any thought of analog makes me ill. > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Wheeeeeeee.... >> You folks rock! >> >> I feel like the xmas I got my first Heathkit oscilloscope. I spent the >> entire first day building it and the next year using it. Excitement on both >> fronts just like dp11 will. >> >> Margaret and I send our best wishes to the mother ship and all you good >> people on the list. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode >> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:31 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: panagiotis merakos >> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 >> >> Dear list members, >> >> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. >> >> Developer Preview Release >> ========================= >> Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure that you back up >> your stacks before testing them. >> >> >> Getting the Release >> =================== >> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or >> via the automatic updater. >> >> >> Release Contents >> ================ >> LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 comes with more than 40 bugfixes. Moreover, more than >> 90 bugfixes that were fixed in LiveCode 8.1.x and 8.2.x, are now merged >> into LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. >> >> In addition, LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 includes several amazing new features: >> >> - Great progress on Obj-C FFI: support for dynamic instance binding, >> dynamic property binding and delegate support is added. With LCB, you can >> easily wrap an API of your choice and use it from LiveCode Script. For >> example, see the code in http://quality.livecode.com/sh >> ow_bug.cgi?id=20733, >> which wraps NSUserNotification, used to send a notification. >> - Target folder variant of the detailed files and the detailed folders: >> The >> files() and folders() function now have a second optional argument, >> allowing ?detailed? to be specified. >> - Image Object SVG support: Include high quality SVG images at a very >> small cost on the standalone size >> - HTML5 windowing: This allows tooltips, dialogs, and pop-up menus to >> work within the HTML5 engine. This also allows multiple stacks to be opened >> on the HTML5 page. >> - Windows cameraControl enhancements: Support to the windows camera >> control for exposure, focus and white balance mode properties has been >> added. >> - Data Grid 2 visual / interactive elements: datagrid edit mode swipe >> actions / drag reordering >> - New LCB syntax: added support for "the architecture", "trigger all" and >> access to system error >> - Android AAR support: Add support for AAR files as extension dependencies >> - Android manifest merging: An android manifest merging mechanism has >> been added to the android standalone builder. This enables manifests to be >> included in extension jvm-android code folders which are then merged into >> the main manifest at build time. >> - Android Toast Notification Library >> - Extension code library support: Extensions can now include compiled >> libraries on which they depend. >> - New Native Map Widget for Android, iOS and Mac 64 bit (Indy+) >> - New Signature Widget for all platforms (Indy+) >> - New SecureKey Library for Android, iOS and Mac (Business): The >> SecureKey library provides a way to encrypt data with a private key which >> is held securely on the device and tied to the application owning it. >> - New Media Foundation External (Business): A new external has been >> implemented to allow transcoding and basic editing of videos on Windows. >> The external supports Windows 8.1+. >> - Browser Widget now works again in 64 bit Linux >> - Browser Widget now works in 32 bit Linux as well :) >> >> Last, but not least, LC 9.0.0 DP-11 includes a new version of our >> prebuilt OpenSSL library, new versions of tsNet and mergExt* externals, as >> well as support for the latest version of Xcode (9.2). >> >> For more details on this release, read Ali's exciting blogpost: >> >> https://livecode.com/livecode-9-the-final-preview/ >> >> Important Note: The shortcuts for Autocomplete have changed, since they >> were conflicting with existing shortcuts in some platforms. So, now: >> >> - The F1 key (or Fn+F1 in some keyboards) is now used for presenting >> autocomplete when the user has the live autocomplete preference off. If the >> completions pane is already presented, the F1 key will launch the >> dictionary if the chosen completion is documented. >> - The tab key is now used to apply the completion, or to move to the next >> placeholder. >> >> >> Known issues >> ================ >> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros >> with Cinnamon window manager. >> - DataGrid swipe (and drag-reorder) actions seem to interfere with the >> scroller on Android, requiring an additional swipe (and drag-reorder) >> action to make it work. This will be fixed in next release. >> - You might not be able to run HTML5 standalones locally using the most >> recent version of Safari or Chrome (Firefox is OK). This is due to those >> browsers now prohibiting cross-origin-requests. To test out standalones >> locally using these browser, we suggest using a local HTTP server as >> described in the HTML5 deployment guide. However, this will not be a >> problem if you use the new HTML5 deployment library, which does this for >> you: You just have to choose one of the installed browsers (click on the >> "Development -> Test Target" menu item), and then click on the "Test" >> button. >> - Although the Mac MapKit API is supported from OS X 10.9 onwards, Apple >> restricts use of the API on 10.9 and 10.10 to apps which are distributed >> from the Mac AppStore with an appropriate entitlement. Due to this, general >> use of the Map widget only supports OS X 10.11 onwards. >> - Setting the text of an image to a SVG file *dynamically* in a >> *standalone* does not work on Windows. Probably a path-related issue, >> which will be fixed in the next release. It does work in the IDE, as well >> as in standalones for the other desktop platforms. >> - In the release notes, the SecureKey library, as well as the Script >> Profiler library, are in the section "LiveCode Indy Extension changes". >> This is incorrect, as these features are only available in the Business >> edition. >> >> The full release notes are available from: >> >> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9 >> _0_0_dp_11.pdf >> >> >> Feedback >> ======== >> Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at >> http://quality.livecode.com/ >> >> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >> >> Have fun! >> The LiveCode Team >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Dec 22 11:36:33 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 16:36:33 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <003901d37b3d$2651e880$72f5b980$@net> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I think both of these features (a "universal" native button widget and the ability to add your own icons) will be added in the upcoming LC 9.x releases. Best, Panos -- On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I'm sure someone already asked this: Why not have one native button, that > when we build for platform x compiles for that platform? We have a mac > button, an android button, and an ios button. We have an android field, a > mac field (no ios field)... > I can't wait for someone to hack the navigation bar so you can add whatever > icons you like. I've looked at doing it, but it's not on the front burner. > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > Thanks for ruining it for me, Ralph. Any thought of analog makes me ill. > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Wheeeeeeee.... > >> You folks rock! > >> > >> I feel like the xmas I got my first Heathkit oscilloscope. I spent the > >> entire first day building it and the next year using it. Excitement on > both > >> fronts just like dp11 will. > >> > >> Margaret and I send our best wishes to the mother ship and all you good > >> people on the list. > >> > >> Ralph DiMola > >> IT Director > >> Evergreen Information Services > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > >> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode > >> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:31 AM > >> To: How to use LiveCode > >> Cc: panagiotis merakos > >> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 > >> > >> Dear list members, > >> > >> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. > >> > >> Developer Preview Release > >> ========================= > >> Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure that you back up > >> your stacks before testing them. > >> > >> > >> Getting the Release > >> =================== > >> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > >> via the automatic updater. > >> > >> > >> Release Contents > >> ================ > >> LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 comes with more than 40 bugfixes. Moreover, more > than > >> 90 bugfixes that were fixed in LiveCode 8.1.x and 8.2.x, are now merged > >> into LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. > >> > >> In addition, LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 includes several amazing new features: > >> > >> - Great progress on Obj-C FFI: support for dynamic instance binding, > >> dynamic property binding and delegate support is added. With LCB, you > can > >> easily wrap an API of your choice and use it from LiveCode Script. For > >> example, see the code in http://quality.livecode.com/sh > >> ow_bug.cgi?id=20733, > >> which wraps NSUserNotification, used to send a notification. > >> - Target folder variant of the detailed files and the detailed folders: > >> The > >> files() and folders() function now have a second optional argument, > >> allowing ?detailed? to be specified. > >> - Image Object SVG support: Include high quality SVG images at a very > >> small cost on the standalone size > >> - HTML5 windowing: This allows tooltips, dialogs, and pop-up menus to > >> work within the HTML5 engine. This also allows multiple stacks to be > opened > >> on the HTML5 page. > >> - Windows cameraControl enhancements: Support to the windows camera > >> control for exposure, focus and white balance mode properties has been > >> added. > >> - Data Grid 2 visual / interactive elements: datagrid edit mode swipe > >> actions / drag reordering > >> - New LCB syntax: added support for "the architecture", "trigger all" > and > >> access to system error > >> - Android AAR support: Add support for AAR files as extension > dependencies > >> - Android manifest merging: An android manifest merging mechanism has > >> been added to the android standalone builder. This enables manifests to > be > >> included in extension jvm-android code folders which are then merged > into > >> the main manifest at build time. > >> - Android Toast Notification Library > >> - Extension code library support: Extensions can now include compiled > >> libraries on which they depend. > >> - New Native Map Widget for Android, iOS and Mac 64 bit (Indy+) > >> - New Signature Widget for all platforms (Indy+) > >> - New SecureKey Library for Android, iOS and Mac (Business): The > >> SecureKey library provides a way to encrypt data with a private key > which > >> is held securely on the device and tied to the application owning it. > >> - New Media Foundation External (Business): A new external has been > >> implemented to allow transcoding and basic editing of videos on Windows. > >> The external supports Windows 8.1+. > >> - Browser Widget now works again in 64 bit Linux > >> - Browser Widget now works in 32 bit Linux as well :) > >> > >> Last, but not least, LC 9.0.0 DP-11 includes a new version of our > >> prebuilt OpenSSL library, new versions of tsNet and mergExt* externals, > as > >> well as support for the latest version of Xcode (9.2). > >> > >> For more details on this release, read Ali's exciting blogpost: > >> > >> https://livecode.com/livecode-9-the-final-preview/ > >> > >> Important Note: The shortcuts for Autocomplete have changed, since they > >> were conflicting with existing shortcuts in some platforms. So, now: > >> > >> - The F1 key (or Fn+F1 in some keyboards) is now used for presenting > >> autocomplete when the user has the live autocomplete preference off. If > the > >> completions pane is already presented, the F1 key will launch the > >> dictionary if the chosen completion is documented. > >> - The tab key is now used to apply the completion, or to move to the > next > >> placeholder. > >> > >> > >> Known issues > >> ================ > >> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros > >> with Cinnamon window manager. > >> - DataGrid swipe (and drag-reorder) actions seem to interfere with the > >> scroller on Android, requiring an additional swipe (and drag-reorder) > >> action to make it work. This will be fixed in next release. > >> - You might not be able to run HTML5 standalones locally using the most > >> recent version of Safari or Chrome (Firefox is OK). This is due to those > >> browsers now prohibiting cross-origin-requests. To test out standalones > >> locally using these browser, we suggest using a local HTTP server as > >> described in the HTML5 deployment guide. However, this will not be a > >> problem if you use the new HTML5 deployment library, which does this for > >> you: You just have to choose one of the installed browsers (click on the > >> "Development -> Test Target" menu item), and then click on the "Test" > >> button. > >> - Although the Mac MapKit API is supported from OS X 10.9 onwards, Apple > >> restricts use of the API on 10.9 and 10.10 to apps which are distributed > >> from the Mac AppStore with an appropriate entitlement. Due to this, > general > >> use of the Map widget only supports OS X 10.11 onwards. > >> - Setting the text of an image to a SVG file *dynamically* in a > >> *standalone* does not work on Windows. Probably a path-related issue, > >> which will be fixed in the next release. It does work in the IDE, as > well > >> as in standalones for the other desktop platforms. > >> - In the release notes, the SecureKey library, as well as the Script > >> Profiler library, are in the section "LiveCode Indy Extension changes". > >> This is incorrect, as these features are only available in the Business > >> edition. > >> > >> The full release notes are available from: > >> > >> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9 > >> _0_0_dp_11.pdf > >> > >> > >> Feedback > >> ======== > >> Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > >> http://quality.livecode.com/ > >> > >> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at > >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 > >> > >> Have fun! > >> The LiveCode Team > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Dec 22 11:45:40 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 16:45:40 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <003901d37b3d$2651e880$72f5b980$@net> Message-ID: Yes, that is indeed the intention- but we thought we?d give you the components along the way until we?ve figured out the correct API for the cross platform version and actually implemented for all platforms. The single platform versions will likely stay around in some form, probably in the extensions store, as their properties and messages can be more closely mapped to the native ones and they can have features not available on other platforms. The map widget is a slight anomaly in that we?ve gone straight for the cross-platform approach - but mainly because it?s unclear what platforms it will be possible to add support for, but we can be fairly confident if a platform supports it then we can implement everything in the current map widget feature set On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 at 16:36, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > I think both of these features (a "universal" native button widget and the > ability to add your own icons) will be added in the upcoming LC 9.x > releases. > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I'm sure someone already asked this: Why not have one native button, > that > > when we build for platform x compiles for that platform? We have a mac > > button, an android button, and an ios button. We have an android field, > a > > mac field (no ios field)... > > I can't wait for someone to hack the navigation bar so you can add > whatever > > icons you like. I've looked at doing it, but it's not on the front > burner. > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Mike Kerner > > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for ruining it for me, Ralph. Any thought of analog makes me > ill. > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Wheeeeeeee.... > > >> You folks rock! > > >> > > >> I feel like the xmas I got my first Heathkit oscilloscope. I spent the > > >> entire first day building it and the next year using it. Excitement on > > both > > >> fronts just like dp11 will. > > >> > > >> Margaret and I send our best wishes to the mother ship and all you > good > > >> people on the list. > > >> > > >> Ralph DiMola > > >> IT Director > > >> Evergreen Information Services > > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > > >> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode > > >> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:31 AM > > >> To: How to use LiveCode > > >> Cc: panagiotis merakos > > >> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 > > >> > > >> Dear list members, > > >> > > >> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. > > >> > > >> Developer Preview Release > > >> ========================= > > >> Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure that you back up > > >> your stacks before testing them. > > >> > > >> > > >> Getting the Release > > >> =================== > > >> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ > or > > >> via the automatic updater. > > >> > > >> > > >> Release Contents > > >> ================ > > >> LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 comes with more than 40 bugfixes. Moreover, more > > than > > >> 90 bugfixes that were fixed in LiveCode 8.1.x and 8.2.x, are now > merged > > >> into LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11. > > >> > > >> In addition, LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-11 includes several amazing new > features: > > >> > > >> - Great progress on Obj-C FFI: support for dynamic instance binding, > > >> dynamic property binding and delegate support is added. With LCB, you > > can > > >> easily wrap an API of your choice and use it from LiveCode Script. For > > >> example, see the code in http://quality.livecode.com/sh > > >> ow_bug.cgi?id=20733, > > >> which wraps NSUserNotification, used to send a notification. > > >> - Target folder variant of the detailed files and the detailed > folders: > > >> The > > >> files() and folders() function now have a second optional argument, > > >> allowing ?detailed? to be specified. > > >> - Image Object SVG support: Include high quality SVG images at a very > > >> small cost on the standalone size > > >> - HTML5 windowing: This allows tooltips, dialogs, and pop-up menus to > > >> work within the HTML5 engine. This also allows multiple stacks to be > > opened > > >> on the HTML5 page. > > >> - Windows cameraControl enhancements: Support to the windows camera > > >> control for exposure, focus and white balance mode properties has been > > >> added. > > >> - Data Grid 2 visual / interactive elements: datagrid edit mode swipe > > >> actions / drag reordering > > >> - New LCB syntax: added support for "the architecture", "trigger all" > > and > > >> access to system error > > >> - Android AAR support: Add support for AAR files as extension > > dependencies > > >> - Android manifest merging: An android manifest merging mechanism has > > >> been added to the android standalone builder. This enables manifests > to > > be > > >> included in extension jvm-android code folders which are then merged > > into > > >> the main manifest at build time. > > >> - Android Toast Notification Library > > >> - Extension code library support: Extensions can now include compiled > > >> libraries on which they depend. > > >> - New Native Map Widget for Android, iOS and Mac 64 bit (Indy+) > > >> - New Signature Widget for all platforms (Indy+) > > >> - New SecureKey Library for Android, iOS and Mac (Business): The > > >> SecureKey library provides a way to encrypt data with a private key > > which > > >> is held securely on the device and tied to the application owning it. > > >> - New Media Foundation External (Business): A new external has been > > >> implemented to allow transcoding and basic editing of videos on > Windows. > > >> The external supports Windows 8.1+. > > >> - Browser Widget now works again in 64 bit Linux > > >> - Browser Widget now works in 32 bit Linux as well :) > > >> > > >> Last, but not least, LC 9.0.0 DP-11 includes a new version of our > > >> prebuilt OpenSSL library, new versions of tsNet and mergExt* > externals, > > as > > >> well as support for the latest version of Xcode (9.2). > > >> > > >> For more details on this release, read Ali's exciting blogpost: > > >> > > >> https://livecode.com/livecode-9-the-final-preview/ > > >> > > >> Important Note: The shortcuts for Autocomplete have changed, since > they > > >> were conflicting with existing shortcuts in some platforms. So, now: > > >> > > >> - The F1 key (or Fn+F1 in some keyboards) is now used for presenting > > >> autocomplete when the user has the live autocomplete preference off. > If > > the > > >> completions pane is already presented, the F1 key will launch the > > >> dictionary if the chosen completion is documented. > > >> - The tab key is now used to apply the completion, or to move to the > > next > > >> placeholder. > > >> > > >> > > >> Known issues > > >> ================ > > >> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros > > >> with Cinnamon window manager. > > >> - DataGrid swipe (and drag-reorder) actions seem to interfere with the > > >> scroller on Android, requiring an additional swipe (and drag-reorder) > > >> action to make it work. This will be fixed in next release. > > >> - You might not be able to run HTML5 standalones locally using the > most > > >> recent version of Safari or Chrome (Firefox is OK). This is due to > those > > >> browsers now prohibiting cross-origin-requests. To test out > standalones > > >> locally using these browser, we suggest using a local HTTP server as > > >> described in the HTML5 deployment guide. However, this will not be a > > >> problem if you use the new HTML5 deployment library, which does this > for > > >> you: You just have to choose one of the installed browsers (click on > the > > >> "Development -> Test Target" menu item), and then click on the "Test" > > >> button. > > >> - Although the Mac MapKit API is supported from OS X 10.9 onwards, > Apple > > >> restricts use of the API on 10.9 and 10.10 to apps which are > distributed > > >> from the Mac AppStore with an appropriate entitlement. Due to this, > > general > > >> use of the Map widget only supports OS X 10.11 onwards. > > >> - Setting the text of an image to a SVG file *dynamically* in a > > >> *standalone* does not work on Windows. Probably a path-related issue, > > >> which will be fixed in the next release. It does work in the IDE, as > > well > > >> as in standalones for the other desktop platforms. > > >> - In the release notes, the SecureKey library, as well as the Script > > >> Profiler library, are in the section "LiveCode Indy Extension > changes". > > >> This is incorrect, as these features are only available in the > Business > > >> edition. > > >> > > >> The full release notes are available from: > > >> > > >> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9 > > >> _0_0_dp_11.pdf > > >> > > >> > > >> Feedback > > >> ======== > > >> Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at > > >> http://quality.livecode.com/ > > >> > > >> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at > > >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 > > >> > > >> Have fun! > > >> The LiveCode Team > > >> -- > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dave at applicationinsight.com Fri Dec 22 13:08:16 2017 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:08:16 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 Message-ID: <2EAA6978-A369-4141-A388-665A1594391F@applicationinsight.com> Thank you all LiveCode workers - Merry Christmas to you all Kind regards Dave From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 22 13:56:59 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 12:56:59 -0600 Subject: Could not encode class bundle Message-ID: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to encode class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools for every version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK Tools (25.2.5) and SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Fri Dec 22 14:00:41 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 12:00:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1513969241786-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Fantastic release .. what a great Christmas prezzy! Looking forward to trying out all the new features. All the elves at the LiveCode Santa cabin must have worked really hard to get this out to us before the holidays so a BIG thank you to all the team for all their efforts over the past year. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode TinyIDE Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 22 14:13:52 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 13:13:52 -0600 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/22/17 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to encode > class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools for every > version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK Tools (25.2.5) and > SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. > > What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. > BTW, I was able to build with LC 9dp10. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Dec 22 14:38:43 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 14:38:43 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: <1513969241786-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1513969241786-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: the good news is i ran my stack and i make EXTENSIVE use of the datagrid...everything looked fine and worked as expected...... maybe its just me ....but it feels snappier scrolling on the desktop...... but i could be imagining it though. I'm going to do some optimizing and testing on my own use case. epic christmas season for our company's stack, thanks alot for all your hard work. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 2:00 PM, AndyP via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Fantastic release .. what a great Christmas prezzy! > > Looking forward to trying out all the new features. > > All the elves at the LiveCode Santa cabin must have worked really hard to > get this out to us before the holidays so a BIG thank you to all the team > for all their efforts over the past year. > > > > > > ----- > Andy Piddock > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > > TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode > TinyIDE > > > Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk > > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker > / finder. > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > -- > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Dec 22 15:13:43 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:13:43 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <1513969241786-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: cool! that'll give me more space in my tools palette for all the widgets I'll be able to download from the widget store On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > the good news is i ran my stack and i make EXTENSIVE use of the > datagrid...everything looked fine and worked as expected...... maybe its > just me ....but it feels snappier scrolling on the desktop...... but i > could be imagining it though. I'm going to do some optimizing and testing > on my own use case. > > epic christmas season for our company's stack, thanks alot for all your > hard work. > > Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 2:00 PM, AndyP via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Fantastic release .. what a great Christmas prezzy! > > > > Looking forward to trying out all the new features. > > > > All the elves at the LiveCode Santa cabin must have worked really hard to > > get this out to us before the holidays so a BIG thank you to all the team > > for all their efforts over the past year. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > Andy Piddock > > > > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > > > > TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode > > TinyIDE > > > > > > Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk > > > > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker > > / finder. > > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > > -- > > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Dec 22 15:26:52 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:26:52 +0000 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Could you put "answer the result " before throw "could not encode class bundle" in the revSaveAsAndroidStandalone script? That should give us a clue as to what the error is. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/22/17 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to encode > > class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools for every > > version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK Tools (25.2.5) and > > SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. > > > > What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. > > > > BTW, I was able to build with LC 9dp10. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Dec 22 15:45:25 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:45:25 -0500 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Because in LC you can do that because LC is written largely in LC. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Could you put > > "answer the result " > > before > > throw "could not encode class bundle" > > in the revSaveAsAndroidStandalone script? That should give us a clue as to > what the error is. > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 12/22/17 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > > I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to encode > > > class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools for every > > > version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK Tools (25.2.5) and > > > SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. > > > > > > What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. > > > > > > > BTW, I was able to build with LC 9dp10. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Dec 22 15:58:15 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:58:15 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <1513969241786-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Another thing you can do in this DP is hide individual widgets from the tools palette from the extension manager, should you wish. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 8:13 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > cool! that'll give me more space in my tools palette for all the widgets > I'll be able to download from the widget store > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > the good news is i ran my stack and i make EXTENSIVE use of the > > datagrid...everything looked fine and worked as expected...... maybe its > > just me ....but it feels snappier scrolling on the desktop...... but i > > could be imagining it though. I'm going to do some optimizing and testing > > on my own use case. > > > > epic christmas season for our company's stack, thanks alot for all your > > hard work. > > > > Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 2:00 PM, AndyP via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Fantastic release .. what a great Christmas prezzy! > > > > > > Looking forward to trying out all the new features. > > > > > > All the elves at the LiveCode Santa cabin must have worked really hard > to > > > get this out to us before the holidays so a BIG thank you to all the > team > > > for all their efforts over the past year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > Andy Piddock > > > > > > > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > > > > > > TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode > > > TinyIDE > > > > > > > > > Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk > > > > > > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour > picker > > > / finder. > > > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > > > -- > > > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > > > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Dec 22 15:59:47 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:59:47 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <1513969241786-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I know you can. I'm not really worried about the space. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Another thing you can do in this DP is hide individual widgets from the > tools palette from the extension manager, should you wish. > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 8:13 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > cool! that'll give me more space in my tools palette for all the widgets > > I'll be able to download from the widget store > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > the good news is i ran my stack and i make EXTENSIVE use of the > > > datagrid...everything looked fine and worked as expected...... maybe > its > > > just me ....but it feels snappier scrolling on the desktop...... but i > > > could be imagining it though. I'm going to do some optimizing and > testing > > > on my own use case. > > > > > > epic christmas season for our company's stack, thanks alot for all your > > > hard work. > > > > > > Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 2:00 PM, AndyP via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Fantastic release .. what a great Christmas prezzy! > > > > > > > > Looking forward to trying out all the new features. > > > > > > > > All the elves at the LiveCode Santa cabin must have worked really > hard > > to > > > > get this out to us before the holidays so a BIG thank you to all the > > team > > > > for all their efforts over the past year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > Andy Piddock > > > > > > > > > > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > > > > > > > > TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode > > > > TinyIDE > > > > > > > > > > > > Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk > > > > > > > > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour > > picker > > > > / finder. > > > > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > > > > -- > > > > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > > > > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 22 16:51:01 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:51:01 -0600 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: It would be useful if the dialog reported the result. I'll edit the script later and see what it says. I first tried to use Test on my cabled phone and it hung with no way out, no error, nothing, had to force-quit. A way to cancel a failed Test would also be useful. On 12/22/17 2:45 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > Because in LC you can do that because LC is written largely in LC. > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Could you put >> >> "answer the result" >> >> before >> >> throw "could not encode class bundle" >> >> in the revSaveAsAndroidStandalone script? That should give us a clue as to >> what the error is. >> >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> On 12/22/17 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to encode >>>> class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools for every >>>> version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK Tools (25.2.5) and >>>> SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. >>>> >>>> What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. >>>> >>> >>> BTW, I was able to build with LC 9dp10. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 22 17:04:50 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 16:04:50 -0600 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6c7d9680-17eb-a25a-7f82-7a947dd76e26@hyperactivesw.com> Okay, it's a very long error that I couldn't copy, but the first line is: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: com/android/dx/command/Main : Unsupported major.minor version 51.0 This is followed by a dozen lines of various java errors concerning lang, security, net, and misc. I'm still using the Apple-supplied java installation 1.6.0. Do I need a different one? On 12/22/17 2:26 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > Could you put > > "answer the result" > > before > > throw "could not encode class bundle" > > in the revSaveAsAndroidStandalone script? That should give us a clue as to > what the error is. > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 12/22/17 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to encode >>> class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools for every >>> version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK Tools (25.2.5) and >>> SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. >>> >>> What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. >>> >> >> BTW, I was able to build with LC 9dp10. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jiml at netrin.com Fri Dec 22 17:12:05 2017 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 14:12:05 -0800 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> Nice release! For anyone playing with the new MAP widget, the dictionary entry for regionChanged states: on regionChanged UpdateCoordinateDisplay the centerCoordinate of the target end regionChanged command UpdateCoordinateDisplay pCenter put item 1 of pCenter into field "latitude" put item 2 of pCenter into field "longitude" end UpdateCoordinateDisplay That won?t work because it should read ?the centerCoordinates?not ?the centerCoordinate?. Jim Lambert From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Dec 22 17:34:00 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 22:34:00 +0000 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: <6c7d9680-17eb-a25a-7f82-7a947dd76e26@hyperactivesw.com> References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> <6c7d9680-17eb-a25a-7f82-7a947dd76e26@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Yes, looking at previous instances of this error I think using JDK 1.8 is the easiest fix. I'm not sure exactly why this changed from DP 10 to 11 though... On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:04 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Okay, it's a very long error that I couldn't copy, but the first line is: > > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: > com/android/dx/command/Main : Unsupported major.minor version 51.0 > > This is followed by a dozen lines of various java errors concerning > lang, security, net, and misc. > > I'm still using the Apple-supplied java installation 1.6.0. Do I need a > different one? > > On 12/22/17 2:26 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > > Could you put > > > > "answer the result" > > > > before > > > > throw "could not encode class bundle" > > > > in the revSaveAsAndroidStandalone script? That should give us a clue as > to > > what the error is. > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> On 12/22/17 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >>> I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to encode > >>> class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools for every > >>> version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK Tools (25.2.5) and > >>> SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. > >>> > >>> What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. > >>> > >> > >> BTW, I was able to build with LC 9dp10. > >> > >> -- > >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Dec 22 17:37:40 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 17:37:40 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> References: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> Message-ID: <006d01d37b75$7c9f6f90$75de4eb0$@net> I was trying to replicate J Gay's Android build error I ran into a roadblock. I can't launch on Win 10 build 1709 on a VM. The splash hangs at "Loading Libraries". I dumped all mu Plug-Ins and nuked the prefs, disabled AV SW, ran as administrator but still no joy. Any ideas before a get a QCC report going? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Dec 22 17:43:31 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 22:43:31 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: <006d01d37b75$7c9f6f90$75de4eb0$@net> References: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> <006d01d37b75$7c9f6f90$75de4eb0$@net> Message-ID: Try uninstalling and reinstalling. I believe Panos ran into this in testing at some point last week but was unable to replicate On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:37 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I was trying to replicate J Gay's Android build error I ran into a > roadblock. > > I can't launch on Win 10 build 1709 on a VM. The splash hangs at "Loading > Libraries". I dumped all mu Plug-Ins and nuked the prefs, disabled AV SW, > ran as administrator but still no joy. > > Any ideas before a get a QCC report going? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Dec 22 17:55:24 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 22:55:24 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> <006d01d37b75$7c9f6f90$75de4eb0$@net> Message-ID: Indeed, I had this issue on a native windows 7 machine. The issue was fixed once I uninstalled (by running the setup.exe file) and then reinstalling. Best, Panos On Dec 22, 2017 22:43, "Ali Lloyd via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Try uninstalling and reinstalling. I believe Panos ran into this in testing > at some point last week but was unable to replicate > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:37 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I was trying to replicate J Gay's Android build error I ran into a > > roadblock. > > > > I can't launch on Win 10 build 1709 on a VM. The splash hangs at "Loading > > Libraries". I dumped all mu Plug-Ins and nuked the prefs, disabled AV SW, > > ran as administrator but still no joy. > > > > Any ideas before a get a QCC report going? > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Dec 22 18:13:01 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:13:01 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> <006d01d37b75$7c9f6f90$75de4eb0$@net> Message-ID: <000001d37b7a$6d05f590$4711e0b0$@net> JOY TO THE WORLD!! Ali/Panos, thank you. This is why I support the LC platform and more importantly the LC team and why I contributed to the various campaigns. What other commercial product has the heavyweights monitoring an email list and not only chime in with help but solve problems @11:00 pm on the Friday before a holiday? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:55 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: panagiotis merakos Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 Indeed, I had this issue on a native windows 7 machine. The issue was fixed once I uninstalled (by running the setup.exe file) and then reinstalling. Best, Panos On Dec 22, 2017 22:43, "Ali Lloyd via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Try uninstalling and reinstalling. I believe Panos ran into this in > testing at some point last week but was unable to replicate > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:37 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I was trying to replicate J Gay's Android build error I ran into a > > roadblock. > > > > I can't launch on Win 10 build 1709 on a VM. The splash hangs at > > "Loading Libraries". I dumped all mu Plug-Ins and nuked the prefs, > > disabled AV SW, ran as administrator but still no joy. > > > > Any ideas before a get a QCC report going? > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Dec 22 18:28:00 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:28:00 -0500 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> <6c7d9680-17eb-a25a-7f82-7a947dd76e26@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <000101d37b7c$84629250$8d27b6f0$@net> OK... back to the problem at hand J, On Win 10 I built/installed/ran an Android app using dp11. I have JDK 1.8.0_102 installed. On the MacBook I successfully built but did not install using JDK 1.8.0_121. Looks like JDK 1.8.0 is the magic sauce. Hope this helps. Have a good holiday. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ali Lloyd via use-livecode Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:34 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Ali Lloyd Subject: Re: Could not encode class bundle Yes, looking at previous instances of this error I think using JDK 1.8 is the easiest fix. I'm not sure exactly why this changed from DP 10 to 11 though... On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:04 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Okay, it's a very long error that I couldn't copy, but the first line is: > > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: > com/android/dx/command/Main : Unsupported major.minor version 51.0 > > This is followed by a dozen lines of various java errors concerning > lang, security, net, and misc. > > I'm still using the Apple-supplied java installation 1.6.0. Do I need > a different one? > > On 12/22/17 2:26 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > > Could you put > > > > "answer the result" > > > > before > > > > throw "could not encode class bundle" > > > > in the revSaveAsAndroidStandalone script? That should give us a clue > > as > to > > what the error is. > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> On 12/22/17 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >>> I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to > >>> encode class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools > >>> for every version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK > >>> Tools (25.2.5) and SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. > >>> > >>> What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. > >>> > >> > >> BTW, I was able to build with LC 9dp10. > >> > >> -- > >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 22 19:42:31 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:42:31 -0600 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> <6c7d9680-17eb-a25a-7f82-7a947dd76e26@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <16080d240d8.2783.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Well, I have four versions of LiveCode installed so I may have reported the wrong version here. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 22, 2017 4:36:18 PM Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, looking at previous instances of this error I think using JDK 1.8 is > the easiest fix. I'm not sure exactly why this changed from DP 10 to 11 > though... > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:04 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Okay, it's a very long error that I couldn't copy, but the first line is: >> >> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: >> com/android/dx/command/Main : Unsupported major.minor version 51.0 >> >> This is followed by a dozen lines of various java errors concerning >> lang, security, net, and misc. >> >> I'm still using the Apple-supplied java installation 1.6.0. Do I need a >> different one? >> >> On 12/22/17 2:26 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: >> > Could you put >> > >> > "answer the result" >> > >> > before >> > >> > throw "could not encode class bundle" >> > >> > in the revSaveAsAndroidStandalone script? That should give us a clue as >> to >> > what the error is. >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:13 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On 12/22/17 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> I'm unable to build an Android app in LC 9dp11, I get "Unable to encode >> >>> class bundle." I have installed all the Android build tools for every >> >>> version (17 through 27.0.3), and also the latest SDK Tools (25.2.5) and >> >>> SDK Platform-tools (27.0.1). I do not use Android Studio. >> >>> >> >>> What else do I need? Preferences point to the correct SDK folder. >> >>> >> >> >> >> BTW, I was able to build with LC 9dp10. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Dec 22 19:51:58 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 16:51:58 -0800 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> References: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > For anyone playing with the new MAP widget, the dictionary entry for regionChanged states: !!! I dunno about the rest of you, but *I* am not going near any teleport that isn't even beta yet! If I need to be in another region, I'll go the old fashioned way, not jut try to set my properties . . .. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri Dec 22 20:22:59 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 17:22:59 -0800 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> Message-ID: <01efcb08-259f-8e24-c1b3-ad32b791a38e@sonic.net> On 12/22/2017 04:51 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > !!! > > I dunno about the rest of you, but *I* am not going near any teleport > that isn't even beta yet! > > If I need to be in another region, I'll go the old fashioned way, not > jut try to set my properties . . .. ...all right, but you'll change your mind when the dilithium runs low... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From james at thehales.id.au Sat Dec 23 07:45:57 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hale) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:45:57 +1100 Subject: Dash Docset for LiveCode now at version 1.3 Message-ID: With the release of LC9 dp11, I have updated the Dash Docset for Livecode. It is now at version 1.3. If you are using Dash or one of the Dash compatible apps you can update the Docset from the User Contributions category. Enjoy, James From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 23 14:54:06 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 13:54:06 -0600 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> <6c7d9680-17eb-a25a-7f82-7a947dd76e26@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Before I install 1.8, will there be a conflict with older versions of LC that required 1.6 from Apple? I occasionally need to build on different versions for different products. Do you know when 1.8 became acceptable? I remember not too long ago that I had to find and re-install 1.6 in order to create Android apps after I got a new iMac. Oracle's current copy didn't work. On 12/22/17 4:34 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, looking at previous instances of this error I think using JDK 1.8 is > the easiest fix. I'm not sure exactly why this changed from DP 10 to 11 > though... > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From merakosp at gmail.com Sat Dec 23 15:35:51 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 20:35:51 +0000 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> <6c7d9680-17eb-a25a-7f82-7a947dd76e26@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacque, JDK 1.8 first became acceptable in LC 8.1.1. But if you apply this change locally in a version of LC < 8.1.1, then 1.8 *should* work with LC < 8.1.1 too (have not tested that though) https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4403 Best, Panos -- On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 7:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Before I install 1.8, will there be a conflict with older versions of LC > that required 1.6 from Apple? I occasionally need to build on different > versions for different products. Do you know when 1.8 became acceptable? > > I remember not too long ago that I had to find and re-install 1.6 in order > to create Android apps after I got a new iMac. Oracle's current copy didn't > work. > > On 12/22/17 4:34 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > >> Yes, looking at previous instances of this error I think using JDK 1.8 is >> the easiest fix. I'm not sure exactly why this changed from DP 10 to 11 >> though... >> >> > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 23 16:56:31 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 21:56:31 +0000 Subject: TS Net Documentation In-Reply-To: References: <9579A566-E5CD-41EC-B767-33592C0797AB@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1890AB2A-6A04-49E5-9D10-FB13DFF0E5AA@hindu.org> Ali Lloyd wrote: Check out /Contents/Tools/Ext/tsNet.../api.lcdoc for all the tsNet things in one file - hopefully that's roughly what you're looking for Happy Winter Solstice to the team! Yes, Ali, that?s perfect? "awesome" simple plain text? BR From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 23 17:20:40 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 22:20:40 +0000 Subject: TS Net Documentation In-Reply-To: <1890AB2A-6A04-49E5-9D10-FB13DFF0E5AA@hindu.org> References: <9579A566-E5CD-41EC-B767-33592C0797AB@hindu.org> <1890AB2A-6A04-49E5-9D10-FB13DFF0E5AA@hindu.org> Message-ID: In case anyone else is interested Completely unadorned unstyled PDF (well, Minion Pro serif at least) with extraneous lines/info removed, double column 36 pages, 18 sheets from and back. for easy 'armchair reading" http://wiki.hindu.org/uploads/TsNetApi_2017-12-23.pdf Enjoy? On 12/23/17, 11:56 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode" wrote: Check out /Contents/Tools/Ext/tsNet.../api.lcdoc for all the tsNet things in one file - hopefully that's roughly what you're looking for From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 23 17:43:12 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 22:43:12 +0000 Subject: Remote Debugging on iOS Message-ID: <34A2E683-A5DB-4DD5-8D4A-19D859CFA2C9@hindu.org> I made a few changes to a stack that was some working, and still works on desktop, but hangs on iOS. I think I even have recipe for the UX/UI tapping-navigation across handlers/stacks/screens that will cause the app to crash in iOS. I used to only dev test SA's on Android because if it worked on Android it *always* worked on iOS, but not the other way around, and it's so fast to deploy interations to an Android device. But my little Nexus 5 died (made in 2013) and I have a Pixel (used) on it's way to replace but not here yet? Does remote debugging (in 9.*) only fire on Android? I added it to my standalone/inclusions set a break point in a script and save the script and tested with my iPhone as a target? the app ran but did not break the break point. (9 DP11 now I'm stuck with only my iPhone 7?So how do we debug on iOS? Seems like a black box. I know there is a way to get the crash reports off the phone but I don't think they are going to be transparent enough to tell precisely where in the script the app hangs/crashes. And since it is working on desktop, no runtime errors? I'm in the dark. Perhaps worth it to extract the crash reports from the phone (via xCode) and send those in to HQ? moving back to 8.1.9? BR From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 23 18:40:12 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 17:40:12 -0600 Subject: Could not encode class bundle In-Reply-To: References: <60d0b267-4b7e-d8b6-ee04-43728c6cd3c9@hyperactivesw.com> <6ad497c2-836e-c160-68aa-3544675619df@hyperactivesw.com> <6c7d9680-17eb-a25a-7f82-7a947dd76e26@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1f5604e3-6af0-c7d9-9b1d-22f590cd1255@hyperactivesw.com> That was it, I can build now. Finally I can make toast. :) Thanks Panos. On 12/23/17 2:35 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Hi Jacque, > > JDK 1.8 first became acceptable in LC 8.1.1. > > But if you apply this change locally in a version of LC < 8.1.1, then 1.8 > *should* work with LC < 8.1.1 too (have not tested that though) > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4403 > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 7:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Before I install 1.8, will there be a conflict with older versions of LC >> that required 1.6 from Apple? I occasionally need to build on different >> versions for different products. Do you know when 1.8 became acceptable? >> >> I remember not too long ago that I had to find and re-install 1.6 in order >> to create Android apps after I got a new iMac. Oracle's current copy didn't >> work. >> >> On 12/22/17 4:34 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Yes, looking at previous instances of this error I think using JDK 1.8 is >>> the easiest fix. I'm not sure exactly why this changed from DP 10 to 11 >>> though... >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 23 19:29:23 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 18:29:23 -0600 Subject: Android package installer hangs (Oreo) Message-ID: <63bb36cc-49ad-ab46-9b1f-916329474c8c@hyperactivesw.com> Is anyone else here running Android 8.1/Oreo? My test app is hanging the package installer right near the end of the process. This happens both when running Test in the IDE (requiring a force-quit) and also if I build a standalone and move it via Dropbox. Installing from Dropbox, the progress bar goes about 9/10 of the way, and everything freezes. Only the Home button gets me out. The app is not shown in the app drawer. If I try to install again, I'm asked if I want to update the current app (which didn't really install) and the install completes. I can open and run the app. When I go back to Dropbox, the frozen installer window from the first try is still there. I have to go to settings and force quit the package installer to get rid of it. I can't tell if there is something about the LC build itself or a bug in Oreo. The same apk installs fine on my Samsung running 6.0.1. Play Store apps install okay too. Nothing on Google about it. LC 9.0 dp 11, Java 1.8, Mac OS X Sierra -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 23 19:34:32 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 18:34:32 -0600 Subject: Remote Debugging on iOS In-Reply-To: <34A2E683-A5DB-4DD5-8D4A-19D859CFA2C9@hindu.org> References: <34A2E683-A5DB-4DD5-8D4A-19D859CFA2C9@hindu.org> Message-ID: <2dd85b6f-9e0c-a530-2d46-5fa8e562877f@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/23/17 4:43 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Does remote debugging (in 9.*) only fire on Android? I added it to my standalone/inclusions set a break point in a script and save the script and tested with my iPhone as a target? the app ran but did not break the break point. (9 DP11 Remote debugging doesn't work with script-only stacks (I had to ask here on the list myself a while back.) The breakpoint has to be saved with the standalone, and script-only stacks don't have properties so breakpoints can't be saved. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Dec 23 20:55:43 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 20:55:43 -0500 Subject: Remote Debugging on iOS In-Reply-To: <2dd85b6f-9e0c-a530-2d46-5fa8e562877f@hyperactivesw.com> References: <34A2E683-A5DB-4DD5-8D4A-19D859CFA2C9@hindu.org> <2dd85b6f-9e0c-a530-2d46-5fa8e562877f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: what about "breakpoint"? On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 7:34 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/23/17 4:43 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > >> Does remote debugging (in 9.*) only fire on Android? I added it to my >> standalone/inclusions set a break point in a script and save the script >> and tested with my iPhone as a target? the app ran but did not break the >> break point. (9 DP11 >> > > Remote debugging doesn't work with script-only stacks (I had to ask here > on the list myself a while back.) The breakpoint has to be saved with the > standalone, and script-only stacks don't have properties so breakpoints > can't be saved. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dev at digifilm.com Sun Dec 24 05:12:48 2017 From: dev at digifilm.com (Dev) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 02:12:48 -0800 Subject: Merry Christmas and Happy Blockchain Year In-Reply-To: <1a2a1f77-6a5c-cf1f-7c24-68d87c766a61@fourthworld.com> References: <1a2a1f77-6a5c-cf1f-7c24-68d87c766a61@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <343A1804-7E32-4623-B606-EDBD112BBDBA@digifilm.com> Merry Christmas List, Wish you all Happy Holidays and all the nice stuff. 2018 is the year when we finally break free? of the tyranny. Cheers, Debdoot PS. If anyone is working on or interested in working on the blockchain, please feel free to email me. From stephen at barncard.com Sun Dec 24 17:05:21 2017 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 14:05:21 -0800 Subject: Using open process instead of shell Message-ID: Hi gang, I need a little help here. I am creating a Macintosh app on the desktop for my own use. I am making an archive of all the "Spirit of K JAZ" shows by the late Jerry Dean. After the terrestrial radio station went off the air, he and fellow air mate Stan Dunn started streaming the shows on the net for most of the 2000 decade. There are over 800 1-hour shows in this collection. After archiving the first 200 shows, I quickly tired of using individual apps to do the separate steps of photographing the cover, putting in folder, and transferring the data, while keeping the same file name for all of them. So I created a stack which controls several command line executables I have three executable binaries that I call from this app. imagesnap ffmpeg SOX All of the commands work great by using the shell command in LC, except for the fact that my app waits until some of the commands have finished. In the case of one of them for example, it is importing a audio file from a CD, and turning it into a wave file using *ffmpeg*. ./ffmpeg -i '/Volumes/Audio CD/1 Audio Track.aiff' '/Users/stephenbarncard/Desktop/img/20171113_LIVE_ON_MARz.wav' [ above command on one line ] This takes up to 10 minutes to copy for a 60 minute CD. ? ?The ./? at the beginning is the only difference between what I was saying in my shell call from LC and what works in Terminal. The executables live directly adjacent to the live code stack, to simplify addressing. I got about this far with my coding, reading stuff from forums and the dictionary, but I just can't seem to put the right words together. pData is the command that works from the shell. on executeProcess pData put whereAmI() into a; set the defaultFolder to a get "file:xprocess.bat" put pData into URL it open process "file:xprocess.bat" for text write etc.. close executeProcess ? Does someone out there have a clear example of what I am looking for, using a UNIX executable through *open process? *? 1. call the function with parameters 2. allow livecode scripts to continue 3. continuously monitor and display data returned by that function thank you all so much for any and all information, And a happy non-sectarian Christmas to everyone! *Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - * *mixstream.org* From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun Dec 24 18:30:01 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 15:30:01 -0800 Subject: Using open process instead of shell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39f5e742-c4c2-ee99-003c-c5afdabbfe17@sonic.net> On 12/24/2017 02:05 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote: > ? Does someone out there have a clear example of what I am looking for, > using a UNIX executable through *open process? *? > > 1. call the function with parameters > 2. allow livecode scripts to continue > 3. continuously monitor and display data returned by that function > > > thank you all so much for any and all information, check out the openProcesses function to see what's still in play here's an example from the 'close process' doc: close process myProcess wait until myProcess is not among the lines of the openProcesses open process myProcess -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Dec 24 19:56:40 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:56:40 -0700 Subject: Using open process instead of shell In-Reply-To: <39f5e742-c4c2-ee99-003c-c5afdabbfe17@sonic.net> References: <39f5e742-c4c2-ee99-003c-c5afdabbfe17@sonic.net> Message-ID: Off the top of my head, untested (no mac available) on executeProcess pData put whereAmI() into a; set the defaultFolder to a -- I'd bipass this -- get "file:xprocess.bat" -- put pData into URL it open process "file:xprocess.bat" for text write -- this part, if you want to use a shell file (bat?) you a) have to make sure its set to executable -- b) You'd want to prepend #!/bin/sh so that it knows what shell to use on execution (or use sh xprocess.bat as your command) -- c ) Don't think it will work using the URL form It should be -- open process "xprocess.bat" for text read -- text read because you want to read the output (or update if you need to send additional commands interactive) --Since you want to be able to check progress you'll need to start a read loop too.. -- if it were me, i'd just call openprocess with your known working command line open process pData for text read with message -- start read loop send "monitorslave pdata" to me in 50 millisec close executeProcess command monitorslave pProcess -- read loop.. DO what you need to check progress here.. read from process pProcess until empty -- Somewhere in here you'll need to determine if the process is done, close it, and exit without looping again -- or update status and loop again send monitorslave pProcess to me in 50 millisec -- loop again if not done end monitorslave if you want to use the same slave loop for multiple processes, you'll of course have to parse the url to know how to handle the output (Or just make a custom slave loop for each of your 3 executables) I also don't know if you will actually need to close the process, or if it will self close when done. As mark pointed out, you can look at openprocesses() to see whats currently running. On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/24/2017 02:05 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote: > > ? Does someone out there have a clear example of what I am looking for, >> using a UNIX executable through *open process? *? >> >> 1. call the function with parameters >> 2. allow livecode scripts to continue >> 3. continuously monitor and display data returned by that function >> >> >> thank you all so much for any and all information, >> > > check out the openProcesses function to see what's still in play > here's an example from the 'close process' doc: > > close process myProcess > wait until myProcess is not among the lines of the openProcesses > open process myProcess > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Dec 24 21:06:08 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:06:08 -0700 Subject: Using open process instead of shell In-Reply-To: References: <39f5e742-c4c2-ee99-003c-c5afdabbfe17@sonic.net> Message-ID: IGnore the "with message" part, had a brain freeze. It would be -- open process pdata for text read And then do the -- send "monitorslave pData' to me in 50 millisec -- to start the loop. Just tested on linux. I can start a find process, grab the output of dmesg and cat a file and direct output to different fields. But the processes don't auto close on completion, so you'd have to have a way to recognize when each finishes based on their output, and close the process. (or if you don't care about the output, you can open process tProcess for neither Which should start a disconnected process that will exit when complete (assuming its a command that exits on completion) Another possible method that should make it easy to see when such a process ends (if you DO want to read the output) would be to open a shell process for text update. Then write your command to that shell, and read the output. When it returns to a prompt, its done. Example code (not using a shell) follows: local tstarttime on mouseup put empty into field 1 put empty into field 2 put empty into field 3 put the seconds into tstarttime -- start 3 processes put "dmesg" into tProcess1 put "find /" into tProcess2 put "cat /etc/fstab" into tProcess3 open process tProcess1 for text read monitorslave tProcess1 open process tProcess2 for text read monitorslave tProcess2 open process tProcess3 for text read monitorslave tProcess3 end mouseup command monitorSlave pProcess switch case pProcess contains "dmesg" read from process pProcess until empty put it after field 1 break case pProcess contains "find" read from process pProcess until empty put it after field 2 break case pProcess contains "cat" read from process pProcess until empty put it after field 3 break end switch if pProcess is not among the lines of openprocesses() then exit "monitorslave" else send "monitorslave pProcess" to me in 100 millisec end if -- quick and dirty method of stopping the processes after a minute -- since this is only testing if the seconds - tstarttime > 60 then closeProcesses end monitorSlave command closeprocesses repeat for each line tline in openprocesses() close process tLine end repeat end closeprocesses On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Off the top of my head, untested (no mac available) > > on executeProcess pData > put whereAmI() into a; set the defaultFolder to a > -- I'd bipass this > -- get "file:xprocess.bat" > -- put pData into URL it > > > open process "file:xprocess.bat" for text write > -- this part, if you want to use a shell file (bat?) you a) have to make > sure its set to executable > -- b) You'd want to prepend #!/bin/sh so that it knows what shell to use > on execution (or use sh xprocess.bat as your command) > -- c ) Don't think it will work using the URL form It should be -- open > process "xprocess.bat" for text read > -- text read because you want to read the output (or update if you need to > send additional commands interactive) > > --Since you want to be able to check progress you'll need to start a read > loop too.. > -- if it were me, i'd just call openprocess with your known working > command line > open process pData for text read with message > > -- start read loop > send "monitorslave pdata" to me in 50 millisec > > close executeProcess > > > command monitorslave pProcess > -- read loop.. DO what you need to check progress here.. > read from process pProcess until empty > > -- Somewhere in here you'll need to determine if the process is done, > close it, and exit without looping again > -- or update status and loop again > > send monitorslave pProcess to me in 50 millisec -- loop again if not > done > end monitorslave > > > if you want to use the same slave loop for multiple processes, you'll of > course have to parse the url to know how to handle the output > (Or just make a custom slave loop for each of your 3 executables) > I also don't know if you will actually need to close the process, or if it > will self close when done. As mark pointed out, you can look at > openprocesses() to see whats currently running. > > > > On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 12/24/2017 02:05 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ? Does someone out there have a clear example of what I am looking for, >>> using a UNIX executable through *open process? *? >>> >>> 1. call the function with parameters >>> 2. allow livecode scripts to continue >>> 3. continuously monitor and display data returned by that function >>> >>> >>> thank you all so much for any and all information, >>> >> >> check out the openProcesses function to see what's still in play >> here's an example from the 'close process' doc: >> >> close process myProcess >> wait until myProcess is not among the lines of the openProcesses >> open process myProcess >> >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From brahma at hindu.org Sun Dec 24 21:55:47 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 02:55:47 +0000 Subject: Remote Debugging on iOS In-Reply-To: References: <34A2E683-A5DB-4DD5-8D4A-19D859CFA2C9@hindu.org> <2dd85b6f-9e0c-a530-2d46-5fa8e562877f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <158BB138-FDC6-42FD-89FC-DC8926997011@hindu.org> jacque wrote: Remote debugging doesn't work with script-only stacks (I had to ask here on the list myself a while back.) The breakpoint has to be saved with the standalone, and script-only stacks don't have properties so breakpoints can't be saved. Hmm OK, so that means we have to drop one at a trigger point in the stack like "on mouseup" but now, some of my stacks/cards are "pure views" with *narry* a drop of code in them? So I suppose a "hack" could be to add, in the button,card, stackscript on mouseup breakpoint pass mouseup end mousup At least, once we start stepping through then at least we are looking lines in the script only libs/behaviors. BR. From brahma at hindu.org Sun Dec 24 22:01:39 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 03:01:39 +0000 Subject: Android package installer hangs (Oreo) In-Reply-To: <63bb36cc-49ad-ab46-9b1f-916329474c8c@hyperactivesw.com> References: <63bb36cc-49ad-ab46-9b1f-916329474c8c@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I tried building for Android on 9.0 dp 11 yesterday and got some weird font mapping issues. Pixel arrived (wow! iOS, seems a bit primitive now?) used, unlocked, (looks brand new) no sim? I got wi-fi. immediate prompted me to upgrade to 8.1, which I did. in LC 8.1.9 I can't see it in the test menu, no matter what I do, reboot, restart LC, with phone plugged, unplugged. But I got a neat droid transfer app for Mac? go to connected devices, switch USB to transfers (I guess you do that already with Drop Box..) So I can turn the phone into a "volume" that appears inside the app like a finder window? and copy the apk from my LC builds folder into Downloads on the phone and then install. So, that's working? Sadly the rendering fixes in 8.1.9 are not resolving all issues we had before? sure, we can now leave the app via Home or App switcher, and come back without the app stopping, but switching between stacks which require accelerated rendering is still full of bugs?all works perfectly on iOS (sigh) so back to debugging-android challenges. iMac high Sierra: On 12/23/17, 2:29 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: Is anyone else here running Android 8.1/Oreo? My test app is hanging the package installer right near the end of the process. This happens both when running Test in the IDE (requiring a force-quit) and also if I build a standalone and move it via Dropbox. Installing from Dropbox, the progress bar goes about 9/10 of the way, and everything freezes. Only the Home button gets me out. The app is not shown in the app drawer. If I try to install again, I'm asked if I want to update the current app (which didn't really install) and the install completes. I can open and run the app. When I go back to Dropbox, the frozen installer window from the first try is still there. I have to go to settings and force quit the package installer to get rid of it. I can't tell if there is something about the LC build itself or a bug in Oreo. The same apk installs fine on my Samsung running 6.0.1. Play Store apps install okay too. Nothing on Google about it. LC 9.0 dp 11, Java 1.8, Mac OS X Sierra From warren at warrensweb.us Mon Dec 25 00:10:16 2017 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 23:10:16 -0600 Subject: Using open process instead of shell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12723671-f646-f456-b1ae-52dcd4e62eef@warrensweb.us> On 12/24/2017 04:05 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote: > All of the commands work great by using the shell command in LC, except for > the fact that my app waits until some of the commands have finished. If your concern is bypassing the blocking nature of shell(), then you should be aware that there are methods which detach a process from the shell after opening it and these can be used in LiveCode shell() to make it non-blocking. For example: get shell ("nohup mycommand --some-params 'can use single quotes to escape if necessary' &") here the command is prefaced with the 'nohup' and a space and is closed with a space and & There are several variations for redirecting to /dev/null which also work to make the shell() non-blocking. Here's an example: get shell ("mycommand --some-params 'can use single quotes to escape if necessary' /dev/null &") This doesn't respond to your direct question about "open process" but it *may* be a straightforward way to resolve the issue that has caused you to inquire. Good Luck, Warren From stephen at barncard.com Mon Dec 25 03:24:22 2017 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:24:22 -0800 Subject: Using open process instead of shell In-Reply-To: <12723671-f646-f456-b1ae-52dcd4e62eef@warrensweb.us> References: <12723671-f646-f456-b1ae-52dcd4e62eef@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: Thank you very much, great ideas from Mark Wieder, Mike Bonner, Warren Samples I will be working with these suggestions for the next couple of days and report back to you guys. sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 9:10 PM, Warren Samples via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/24/2017 04:05 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote: > >> All of the commands work great by using the shell command in LC, except >> for >> the fact that my app waits until some of the commands have finished. >> > > > If your concern is bypassing the blocking nature of shell(), then you > should be aware that there are methods which detach a process from the > shell after opening it and these can be used in LiveCode shell() to make it > non-blocking. > > For example: > > get shell ("nohup mycommand --some-params 'can use single quotes to escape > if necessary' &") > > here the command is prefaced with the 'nohup' and a space and is closed > with a space and & > > > There are several variations for redirecting to /dev/null which also work > to make the shell() non-blocking. Here's an example: > > get shell ("mycommand --some-params 'can use single quotes to escape if > necessary' /dev/null &") > > > This doesn't respond to your direct question about "open process" but it > *may* be a straightforward way to resolve the issue that has caused you to > inquire. > > Good Luck, > > Warren > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From stephen at barncard.com Mon Dec 25 03:31:05 2017 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:31:05 -0800 Subject: Using open process instead of shell In-Reply-To: References: <12723671-f646-f456-b1ae-52dcd4e62eef@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: > > > great ideas from Mark Wieder, Mike Bonner, Warren Samples > > ?And Glen Bojsza ! Thanks guys!? From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Dec 25 09:40:01 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 07:40:01 -0700 Subject: Using open process instead of shell In-Reply-To: References: <12723671-f646-f456-b1ae-52dcd4e62eef@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: had one more thought to make it easier. go back to your original idea of using a shell script but make the script have the format.. #!/bin/sh [your command here] echo "Command Complete" That way, its easy to see when an individual command finishes. In addition, if you use 3 separate files, 1 for each of your 3 commands, named logically, you can easily grok which what to do with each. Finally, for the [your command here] part.. If you want to be able to run more than 1 at once, if you pass in your arguments as parameters, you don't have to rewrite the file each time, you just pass in your changeables and go. IIRC $0 will contain the name of the shell script any further parameters will continue in that vein.. For a very simple example, if your shell script named test.sh were to contain #!/bin/sh ls $1 echo find . |grep $2 echo "Command Complete" you can run it with-- ./test.sh /var barncard the output would be a listing of the files in folder /var a space and a listing of files and folders from the current directory downward that contain the string barncard. Should make it easy enough to fire off jobs, multiple if you wish as long as your parameters differ (so that the open process string is unique) This should make it easy to queue up your commands.. Depending on hardware it might be possible to have 2 or 3 sets (or more? no clue what hardware you have) at once. It would depend on cpu threads and how much load you wanted to put on things. Sorry for all the blabbing, had a good day so my thinker is kinda working. Everyone have a Merry one! From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Dec 25 15:07:54 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:07:54 +0200 Subject: A problem with my MSc Thesis Message-ID: <3b98c073-d354-0001-ce23-c9979f202c7e@gmail.com> My Masters degree from the University of Abertay (ribald comments not welcome) involved a piece of software developed using Runtime Revolution (now known as LiveCode) 2.0. Several people have downloaded the software and find it "goes wonky" with current versions of LiveCode. As it was composed with the 10-line limit unlicensed version of RunRev there should be no copyright problem and/or conflict of interest if someone could send me RunRev 2.0 or 2.0.1 for Windows, Macintosh and Linux as I am quite unable to find download links to those versions (or earlier ones) online. Richmond. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Dec 25 15:41:52 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 21:41:52 +0100 Subject: A problem with my MSc Thesis In-Reply-To: <3b98c073-d354-0001-ce23-c9979f202c7e@gmail.com> References: <3b98c073-d354-0001-ce23-c9979f202c7e@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5A4FF44A-6D41-4EA5-857C-079DE37A8C54@m-r-d.de> Richmond, do you know http://archive.org? This site is an archive of many many websites. As i am not sure when version 2.0 was released (i early started 2005 with Revolution Studio 2.5) I tried the year 2003. This link for example https://web.archive.org/web/20030605125616/http://www.runrev.com:80/Revolution1/downloads.html allowed me to select and download version 2.0.2 of revolution studio for Mac OS X. The above link lists several operating system options. The direct link to the Mac OS X file btw. is https://web.archive.org/web/20030810232259if_/http://www.runrev.com:80/revolution/downloads/distributions/2.0/revolutionosx.dmg Hope this helps. Regards, Matthias Matthias Rebbe Matthias Rebbe Tel +49 5741 310000 ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? > Am 25.12.2017 um 21:07 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode >: > > My Masters degree from the University of Abertay (ribald comments not welcome) > involved a piece of software developed using Runtime Revolution (now known as > LiveCode) 2.0. > > Several people have downloaded the software and find it "goes wonky" with current > versions of LiveCode. > > As it was composed with the 10-line limit unlicensed version of RunRev there should be > no copyright problem and/or conflict of interest if someone could send me RunRev 2.0 > or 2.0.1 for Windows, Macintosh and Linux as I am quite unable to find download > links to those versions (or earlier ones) online. > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Dec 25 16:21:01 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:21:01 +0200 Subject: A problem with my MSc Thesis In-Reply-To: <5A4FF44A-6D41-4EA5-857C-079DE37A8C54@m-r-d.de> References: <3b98c073-d354-0001-ce23-c9979f202c7e@gmail.com> <5A4FF44A-6D41-4EA5-857C-079DE37A8C54@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <3b1e355b-cea2-6200-49b3-8b81ab3dc4c1@gmail.com> Thank you very much for the help. Richmond. On 25.12.2017 22:41, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Richmond, > > do you know http://archive.org? > > This site is an archive of many many websites. > > As i am not sure when version 2.0 was released (i early started 2005 with Revolution Studio 2.5) > I tried the year 2003. > > This link for example > > https://web.archive.org/web/20030605125616/http://www.runrev.com:80/Revolution1/downloads.html > > allowed me to select and download version 2.0.2 of revolution studio for Mac OS X. The above link lists several operating system options. > > > The direct link to the Mac OS X file btw. is > > https://web.archive.org/web/20030810232259if_/http://www.runrev.com:80/revolution/downloads/distributions/2.0/revolutionosx.dmg > > Hope this helps. > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > Matthias Rebbe > Matthias Rebbe > Tel +49 5741 310000 > ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? > >> Am 25.12.2017 um 21:07 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode >: >> >> My Masters degree from the University of Abertay (ribald comments not welcome) >> involved a piece of software developed using Runtime Revolution (now known as >> LiveCode) 2.0. >> >> Several people have downloaded the software and find it "goes wonky" with current >> versions of LiveCode. >> >> As it was composed with the 10-line limit unlicensed version of RunRev there should be >> no copyright problem and/or conflict of interest if someone could send me RunRev 2.0 >> or 2.0.1 for Windows, Macintosh and Linux as I am quite unable to find download >> links to those versions (or earlier ones) online. >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Mon Dec 25 21:09:31 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 02:09:31 +0000 Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play Message-ID: Jai Ganesha! My new Pixel arrived the day before Pancha Ganapati amidst a 72 hour solo code sprint, working with the new 8.1.9 to get an Android version done. At the last minute I solved rendering issues on Android (not happening on Desktop or iOS) and with a little help from Jacque, today got the app up on Google play. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.himalayanacademy.sivasiva&hl=en I want to thank the team in Edinburgh for the hard work that got us here and all the support from this community, especially Jacqueline and Andre and all of you who have been so patient and generous with your time and answering and sharing your knowledge. FWIW: Our app opens and closes stacks aka "modules"?. we had a serious rendering issue with our "Journal" module? this reads data from a dbase that tracks users history, lets her mark favorites etc. It uses a template "subgroup" on card 2? which includes a few widget icons. The "layout" command deletes the parent group "item list" on card 1 and then locks the screen and adds subgroups to the main group? as many as 50-100. AcceleratedRendering is required for scrolling this "beast" of a parent group. going to the journal consistently locked up the screen on Android, cause quits and strange ghastly images on screen? until I changed the order and timing of events, which, in the end, is just "logical" This works: 1) we turn off accelerated Rendering of Stack A, but leave it open (You have to have a stack open all the time) 2) Open stack "journal" and in the preopenstack handler, delete any existing "item list" (will not exist on mobile, but does during dev) 3) the key was DO NOT set the acceleratedRendering, and issue the layout command (which fetches and builds the parent group dynamically. in either the preopenstack NOR the preopenCard handler! my gut is telling me there is a conflick on mobile between Stack A being open while Stack B tries to open and run stuff in the preopen handlers, but I just guessing. 4) What works is: open the journal Stack B, our navigation system will the close Stack A. I throw up a small busy indicate and a bottom toast (hardly needed) saying "Loading Entries" 5) Now, *after* the card is open and Stack A is closed, on openCard, set the acceleratedRendering to true, lock the screen, run the layout routine which build the giant parent group with subgroups and unlock the screen. After doing getting this to work? it seemed just so obvious the best practice order of events? It's just that on desktop and iOS, it did not seem to matter what you did first, or in what order or whether you did stuff in the preopenstack handler (where we were issuing the layout command before) but now it works. We still have some crashes here and there and there seems to be a regression in the browser widget in 8.1.9 when you rotate the phone to landscape if the video has not been loaded yet from YouTube. (only on Android) But otherwise the app is running pretty well, given all the arms and legs it has. Cheers and Happy Solstice/New Year to all! Brahmanathaswami From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Tue Dec 26 07:01:32 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 05:01:32 -0700 (MST) Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1514289692365-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Congratulations a very nice app. I've done a quick review that you might be useful. *Phone * Nokia 6 Android version 7.1.2 Internal Memory 32GB Free 22.6GB SD Card 64GB Data connection via WIFI Instead of doing a full step by step usage review I thought having a screen recording of Installation and Usage might be more useful for you as you can see the speed of operation in real time followed by a short observational. *Screen recording here* http://2108.on-rev.com/nextcloud/index.php/s/HygyiLnMTraoZiQ *Observasions* Installation was smooth with no problems. Liked the general layout and the use of background images. Navigation was logical although I did find myself having to remember where I was in the app as it is so expansive. Liked the rounded text content boxes and scrolling of the text was good and responsive. Noticed that the AppNews differed in this layout scheme? The search function worked though I wasnt sure what to search for.. thats just my ignorance of the subject. *Problems encountered* In the Songs section about 6:00 in the video the app seemed to hang and I received a Not Responding message, chose to respond with Wait and all then continued to work OK. I had problems dismissing the Share bar at about 10:40 in the video. Some of the text was a little slow to load but not overly so. Hope you find this useful, again a very nice app, well done to all involved. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode TinyIDE Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Tue Dec 26 07:13:47 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 05:13:47 -0700 (MST) Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1514290427288-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Also forgot to mention that there is a character encoding problem at the 3 Min mark. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode TinyIDE Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Dec 26 09:47:28 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 09:47:28 -0500 Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play In-Reply-To: <1514290427288-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1514290427288-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Love seeing people finishing their apps with LC. Congratulations. Wishing you a billion downloads. On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 7:13 AM, AndyP via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Also forgot to mention that there is a character encoding problem at the 3 > Min mark. > > > > ----- > Andy Piddock > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > > TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode > TinyIDE > > > Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk > > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker > / finder. > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > -- > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Dec 26 10:49:34 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 15:49:34 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: <01efcb08-259f-8e24-c1b3-ad32b791a38e@sonic.net> References: <929711F4-047A-4884-9BDC-37B308BC0613@netrin.com> <01efcb08-259f-8e24-c1b3-ad32b791a38e@sonic.net> Message-ID: <7FCCEA05-FDFA-4B16-B5AF-E5D56B23BF83@iotecdigital.com> The new beta will optionally use berrilium spheres. Bob S > On Dec 22, 2017, at 17:22 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 12/22/2017 04:51 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > >> !!! >> I dunno about the rest of you, but *I* am not going near any teleport >> that isn't even beta yet! >> If I need to be in another region, I'll go the old fashioned way, not >> jut try to set my properties . . .. > > ...all right, but you'll change your mind when the dilithium runs low... > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 26 13:14:04 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 13:14:04 -0500 Subject: Remote Debugging on iOS In-Reply-To: <158BB138-FDC6-42FD-89FC-DC8926997011@hindu.org> References: <34A2E683-A5DB-4DD5-8D4A-19D859CFA2C9@hindu.org> <2dd85b6f-9e0c-a530-2d46-5fa8e562877f@hyperactivesw.com> <158BB138-FDC6-42FD-89FC-DC8926997011@hindu.org> Message-ID: But can you just put the "breakpoint" line in the SOS? On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 9:55 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > jacque wrote: > > Remote debugging doesn't work with script-only stacks (I had to ask > here > on the list myself a while back.) The breakpoint has to be saved with > the > standalone, and script-only stacks don't have properties so breakpoints > can't be saved. > > Hmm OK, so that means we have to drop one at a trigger point in the stack > like "on mouseup" but now, some of my stacks/cards are "pure views" with > *narry* a drop of code in them? So I suppose a "hack" could be to add, in > the button,card, stackscript > > on mouseup > breakpoint > pass mouseup > end mousup > > At least, once we start stepping through then at least we are looking > lines in the script only libs/behaviors. > > BR. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brahma at hindu.org Tue Dec 26 13:21:09 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 18:21:09 +0000 Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play In-Reply-To: <1514289692365-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1514289692365-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <586B160B-FD67-40DF-A9B3-88D09FE41D79@hindu.org> Thanks Andy for the review. all your observations will be taken into account, we were wrestling sooo long with the core rendering issues that I wasted a lot of time testing instead of working on refinements, for which the list is very long. I will look at your screen recordings in depth? And we can all look forward to my wailing and knashing of teeth with questions on how to improve performance on Android. I already have feedback from a young scientist in Kerala? Samsung Galaxy A7 with a list of place where the app hangs and stops. I was working on using TS Net to provide better control over the flow of data when the use is accessing content on the net. But what was simple at first became challenging and I had to bail and just get this out the door and printed promotions were already telling the world the Android version was ready (marketing ahead of engineering!) Some of the strange rendering issues on Android persist (e.g. the download screen for the audio) Happy New Year to all. Brahmanathaswmai On 12/26/17, 2:01 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of AndyP via use-livecode" wrote: Congratulations a very nice app. I've done a quick review that you might be useful. *Phone * Nokia 6 Android version 7.1.2 Internal Memory 32GB Free 22.6GB SD Card 64GB Data connection via WIFI Instead of doing a full step by step usage review I thought having a screen recording of Installation and Usage might be more useful for you as you can see the speed of operation in real time followed by a short observational. *Screen recording here* http://2108.on-rev.com/nextcloud/index.php/s/HygyiLnMTraoZiQ *Observasions* Installation was smooth with no problems. Liked the general layout and the use of background images. Navigation was logical although I did find myself having to remember where I was in the app as it is so expansive. Liked the rounded text content boxes and scrolling of the text was good and responsive. Noticed that the AppNews differed in this layout scheme? The search function worked though I wasnt sure what to search for.. thats just my ignorance of the subject. *Problems encountered* In the Songs section about 6:00 in the video the app seemed to hang and I received a Not Responding message, chose to respond with Wait and all then continued to work OK. I had problems dismissing the Share bar at about 10:40 in the video. Some of the text was a little slow to load but not overly so. Hope you find this useful, again a very nice app, well done to all involved. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode TinyIDE Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Dec 26 13:41:33 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 13:41:33 -0500 Subject: last http headers Message-ID: Hi folks, Does anyone know when the content of the last sent and received http header functions are updated? i'm having a lot of trouble saving the headers when scheduling and sending multiple http requests async style sometimes the function gives the correct ones, sometimes not....I can't nail it down, so i figured i should find out when the update happens exactly. so far i am working on simple get requests if that matters. Thanks for any help on this. From nabble at mad.pink Tue Dec 26 13:58:40 2017 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 11:58:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: DataGrid problems Message-ID: <1514314720912-0.post@n4.nabble.com> I must confess that I haven't really used the data grid much, so I'm at a loss as to how to troubleshoot... And FYI I am using 8.1.8 I created a datagrid form with 6 fields and a graphic. The dgData is generated from a search function in a large database. As an example, one search yields 12 results. My datagrid displays 12 groups for the results, but only the first one is filled in (with the results of the last record). If I get the dgData, it is all there. I setup a mouseup (see below) in the script to give me the id number associated with a group, and they each have their own id number when clicked. Note, that the first group which displays the last record gives me the id number of the first record. It seems as though the first group created by the datagrid gets rewritten instead of going down the list... What did I do wrong? my FillInData command: on FillInData pDataArray set the text of field "name" to pDataArray["name"] set the text of field "address" to pDataArray["address"] set the text of field "age" to pDataArray["age"] set the text of field "homephone" to pDataArray["homephone"] set the text of field "cellphone" to pDataArray["cellphone"] set the text of field "elig" to pDataArray["elig"] if pDataArray["elig"] is space then set the backgroundColor of grc "indicator" to green else set the backgroundColor of grc "indicator" to red end if end FillInData on mouseUp put the dgData of me into tData put the dgIndex of me into tX put tData[tX]["_id"] into tID answer tID end mouseUp ----- --- Greg (pink) Miller mad, pink and dangerous to code -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 26 14:18:14 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 13:18:14 -0600 Subject: Remote Debugging on iOS In-Reply-To: References: <34A2E683-A5DB-4DD5-8D4A-19D859CFA2C9@hindu.org> <2dd85b6f-9e0c-a530-2d46-5fa8e562877f@hyperactivesw.com> <158BB138-FDC6-42FD-89FC-DC8926997011@hindu.org> Message-ID: I haven't tried that, but if seems like it should work actually. On 12/26/17 12:14 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > But can you just put the "breakpoint" line in the SOS? > > On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 9:55 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via > use-livecode wrote: > >> jacque wrote: >> >> Remote debugging doesn't work with script-only stacks (I had to ask >> here >> on the list myself a while back.) The breakpoint has to be saved with >> the >> standalone, and script-only stacks don't have properties so breakpoints >> can't be saved. >> >> Hmm OK, so that means we have to drop one at a trigger point in the stack >> like "on mouseup" but now, some of my stacks/cards are "pure views" with >> *narry* a drop of code in them? So I suppose a "hack" could be to add, in >> the button,card, stackscript >> >> on mouseup >> breakpoint >> pass mouseup >> end mousup >> >> At least, once we start stepping through then at least we are looking >> lines in the script only libs/behaviors. >> >> BR. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Dec 26 14:24:58 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 14:24:58 -0500 Subject: DataGrid problems In-Reply-To: <1514314720912-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1514314720912-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: ah. done this many times set the text of field "My field" OF ME to "" that should fix all those strange behaviors .... never forget the "of me" when working with rows On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 1:58 PM, pink via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I must confess that I haven't really used the data grid much, so I'm at a > loss as to how to troubleshoot... And FYI I am using 8.1.8 > > I created a datagrid form with 6 fields and a graphic. The dgData is > generated from a search function in a large database. As an example, one > search yields 12 results. > > My datagrid displays 12 groups for the results, but only the first one is > filled in (with the results of the last record). If I get the dgData, it is > all there. > > I setup a mouseup (see below) in the script to give me the id number > associated with a group, and they each have their own id number when > clicked. Note, that the first group which displays the last record gives me > the id number of the first record. > > It seems as though the first group created by the datagrid gets rewritten > instead of going down the list... > > What did I do wrong? > > > my FillInData command: > > on FillInData pDataArray > set the text of field "name" to pDataArray["name"] > set the text of field "address" to pDataArray["address"] > set the text of field "age" to pDataArray["age"] > set the text of field "homephone" to pDataArray["homephone"] > set the text of field "cellphone" to pDataArray["cellphone"] > set the text of field "elig" to pDataArray["elig"] > if pDataArray["elig"] is space then > set the backgroundColor of grc "indicator" to green > else > set the backgroundColor of grc "indicator" to red > end if > end FillInData > > on mouseUp > put the dgData of me into tData > put the dgIndex of me into tX > put tData[tX]["_id"] into tID > answer tID > end mouseUp > > > > ----- > --- > Greg (pink) Miller > mad, pink and dangerous to code > -- > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From nabble at mad.pink Tue Dec 26 14:36:33 2017 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 12:36:33 -0700 (MST) Subject: DataGrid problems In-Reply-To: References: <1514314720912-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1514316993490-0.post@n4.nabble.com> ahhhh... that feels better.... yes that is what I was missing on receviedHelp repeat 100 times answer "Thank you!!!" end repeat end receviedHelp ----- --- Greg (pink) Miller mad, pink and dangerous to code -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 26 15:28:56 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 14:28:56 -0600 Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play In-Reply-To: <1514289692365-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1514289692365-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 12/26/17 6:01 AM, AndyP via use-livecode wrote: > Instead of doing a full step by step usage review I thought having a screen > recording of Installation and Usage might be more useful for you as you can > see the speed of operation in real time followed by a short observational. Very useful and informative, thank you for taking the time. I'm curious what you used to get the screen recording. I could use that myself. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 26 15:33:51 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 22:33:51 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1805a1e0-ac0a-0ad9-3910-3831bec805b6@gmail.com> Wonkiness on Linux, I'm afraid. Bug 20805 Perhaps it would be a good idea if other Linux users had a look at this as well. My rmain Linux rig: Xubuntu 17.10 64-bit. If I find the time I'll "have a go" on a 32-bit machine I've got running MX Linux tomorrow. Richmond. From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Dec 26 15:58:27 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 20:58:27 +0000 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: <1805a1e0-ac0a-0ad9-3910-3831bec805b6@gmail.com> References: <1805a1e0-ac0a-0ad9-3910-3831bec805b6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Richmond, What you see is a duplicate of bug 16848 ( http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16848), which is not supposed to be fixed in 9.0 DP-11. It affects Linux installations with specific locale settings, and it should be fixed if you applied the workaround described in comment 81 of this report, i.e. to run LC from command line using this command: LC_ALL= LC_NUMERIC=C "" Hope this helps, Panos -- On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Wonkiness on Linux, I'm afraid. > > Bug 20805 > > Perhaps it would be a good idea if other Linux users had a look at this as > well. > > My rmain Linux rig: Xubuntu 17.10 64-bit. > > If I find the time I'll "have a go" on a 32-bit machine I've got running > MX Linux tomorrow. > > Richmond. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Dec 26 16:03:27 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:03:27 -0500 Subject: DataGrid problems In-Reply-To: <1514316993490-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1514314720912-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1514316993490-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: repeat 100 times close stack "Answer Dialog" end repeat put "no problem anytime." On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 2:36 PM, pink via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > ahhhh... that feels better.... yes that is what I was missing > > on receviedHelp > repeat 100 times > answer "Thank you!!!" > end repeat > end receviedHelp > > > > ----- > --- > Greg (pink) Miller > mad, pink and dangerous to code > -- > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ > Revolution-User-f278306.html > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Tue Dec 26 16:46:09 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 14:46:09 -0700 (MST) Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play In-Reply-To: References: <1514289692365-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1514324769549-0.post@n4.nabble.com> I used DU Recorder. I've tried a LOT of screen recorders and this is the best by a long way. Its totally free, no ads, no in app purchases ... a real gem! DU Recorder at Google Play Store ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode TinyIDE Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Dec 26 16:54:33 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 21:54:33 +0000 Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play In-Reply-To: <1514324769549-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1514289692365-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1514324769549-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <0C989355-AD51-421F-A3B5-715C2E7D537A@iotecdigital.com> Snagit works with PC and Mac, and uses GIFS so the end result is a much smaller, and yet seemingly live screen capture file that can be posted to certain websites with attachment size limits, and via email. Bob S > On Dec 26, 2017, at 13:46 , AndyP via use-livecode wrote: > > I used DU Recorder. I've tried a LOT of screen recorders and this is the best > by a long way. > > Its totally free, no ads, no in app purchases ... a real gem! > > DU Recorder at Google Play Store > > > > > > ----- > Andy Piddock > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > > TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode > TinyIDE > > > Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk > > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > -- > Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Dec 26 17:34:57 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 00:34:57 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <1805a1e0-ac0a-0ad9-3910-3831bec805b6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6f8c7dd2-367d-ef45-8a07-f0cda528a225@gmail.com> Um: thanks for the "recipe" for running 9.0.0 dp 11, although I do hope that that will be sorted out before the stable release. Richmond. On 26/12/17 10:58 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > > What you see is a duplicate of bug 16848 ( > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16848), which is not supposed > to be fixed in 9.0 DP-11. It affects Linux installations with specific > locale settings, and it should be fixed if you applied the workaround > described in comment 81 of this report, i.e. to run LC from command line > using this command: > > LC_ALL= LC_NUMERIC=C > "" > > Hope this helps, > > Panos > -- > > > On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Wonkiness on Linux, I'm afraid. >> >> Bug 20805 >> >> Perhaps it would be a good idea if other Linux users had a look at this as >> well. >> >> My rmain Linux rig: Xubuntu 17.10 64-bit. >> >> If I find the time I'll "have a go" on a 32-bit machine I've got running >> MX Linux tomorrow. >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Dec 26 17:50:02 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:50:02 -0600 Subject: [ANN] SivaSiva App on Google Play In-Reply-To: <1514324769549-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1514289692365-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1514324769549-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 12/26/17 3:46 PM, AndyP via use-livecode wrote: > I used DU Recorder. I've tried a LOT of screen recorders and this is the best > by a long way. > > Its totally free, no ads, no in app purchases ... a real gem! > > DU Recorder at Google Play Store > What a find, thanks for the tip. Ten million downloads, #1 screen recorder, 4.8 star rating. And it takes screnshots too, no more awkward, timed button presses. Nice. I'm in. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 27 00:04:18 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 05:04:18 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices Message-ID: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> Our new SivaSiva app expects a lot of horse power. If we want to optimize for smaller devices, I'm not sure where to begin. We can't really shrink graphics below 55k png for small thumbs? so if we have 8 of these on a card and a hero image around 200 K? we are talking about ~700K image data on a single card + fields, buttons and other controls.. It this *really* too much for a small phone? Putting the question another way: what exactly starts causing slow down's in terms of RAM/ScreenResolution/CPU. I would not even know where to begin to get capacity/capability "measurements" for our code to have so that we can work on some AI algorithms for optimizing behavior on the fly for smaller devices? Any thoughts in this area? BR From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Wed Dec 27 04:57:15 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 02:57:15 -0700 (MST) Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1514368635564-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Do you compress your png images? If not give this a try. https://tinypng.com ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 27 07:01:10 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:01:10 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05c2a093-92be-b665-cb71-a646c6c04d01@gmail.com> LC 8.1.8 Linux 32-Bit does NOT install (installer does not run) on MX 17 Horizon 32-bit Linux ( https://mxlinux.org/ ), but LC 7.1.4 does. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 27 07:06:19 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:06:19 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.8 In-Reply-To: <05c2a093-92be-b665-cb71-a646c6c04d01@gmail.com> References: <05c2a093-92be-b665-cb71-a646c6c04d01@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53f60e29-6ee6-54f4-62fe-bddd380df251@gmail.com> What makes this seem *odd* is that installing LC 9.0.0 dp 11 is trouble-free. Richmond. On 12/27/2017 02:01 PM, Richmond wrote: > LC 8.1.8 Linux 32-Bit does NOT install (installer does not run) on > > MX 17 Horizon 32-bit Linux ( https://mxlinux.org/ ), > > but LC 7.1.4 does. > > Richmond. > > From preid at reidit.co.uk Wed Dec 27 07:16:36 2017 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 12:16:36 +0000 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): 1. LiveCode 2. Pseudocode 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) 4. Academic papers I'm considering 2 general methods: a. Compare 2 voice clips directly b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare the words in text format Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things to help. However I've hit problems as follows: a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not support this Android library! Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have several benefits: i. it may work! ii. it may work cross-platform iii. it may be understandable! General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end method, from sound in to comparative score out! Any help with this would be gratefully received! Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 27 07:49:27 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:49:27 +0200 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> References: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <38da5d75-3420-4700-ed35-21ed7a6c1c8a@gmail.com> I'd probably do the text comparison. Although, having said that, as a LInguist, I wonder what value that would have as it would ONLY show that the two sound files were different, it would not, for the sake of argument, show HOW the second one differed from the first one phonetically. Richmond. On 27/12/17 2:16 pm, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. > > I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): > > 1. LiveCode > 2. Pseudocode > 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) > 4. Academic papers > > I'm considering 2 general methods: > > a. Compare 2 voice clips directly > b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare the words in text format > > Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things to help. However I've hit problems as follows: > > a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. > > b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not support this Android library! > > Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have several benefits: > > i. it may work! > ii. it may work cross-platform > iii. it may be understandable! > > General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end method, from sound in to comparative score out! > > Any help with this would be gratefully received! > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 27 07:55:12 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:55:12 +0200 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <38da5d75-3420-4700-ed35-21ed7a6c1c8a@gmail.com> References: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> <38da5d75-3420-4700-ed35-21ed7a6c1c8a@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2207d7d5-74fa-ac16-9dc0-5e95def2b585@gmail.com> Oh, sorry: I thought you were going to convert the sound files into text files rather than use a voice-to-text application. I wonder how accurate voice-to-text transcription is, and how you can squeeze that into your app for Android tablets. Richmond. On 27/12/17 2:49 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > I'd probably do the text comparison. > > Although, having said that, as a LInguist, I wonder what value that > would have > as it would ONLY show that the two sound files were different, it > would not, > for the sake of argument, show HOW the second one differed from the > first one > phonetically. > > Richmond. > > On 27/12/17 2:16 pm, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: >> i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. >> >> I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): >> >> 1. LiveCode >> 2. Pseudocode >> 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) >> 4. Academic papers >> >> I'm considering 2 general methods: >> >> a. Compare 2 voice clips directly >> b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare the words in text format >> >> Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things to help. However I've hit problems as follows: >> >> a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. >> >> b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not support this Android library! >> >> Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have several benefits: >> >> i. it may work! >> ii. it may work cross-platform >> iii. it may be understandable! >> >> General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end method, from sound in to comparative score out! >> >> Any help with this would be gratefully received! >> >> Peter >> -- >> Peter Reid >> Loughborough, UK >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Wed Dec 27 08:16:27 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 08:16:27 -0500 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> References: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: On 12/27/2017 7:16 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > Any help with this would be gratefully received! > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > I am not sure how much help this may be but Mark Smith (email on the stack is mark at maseurope.net) create a stack called "AudioWaveform 0.94" ages ago that displays the waveform of an uncompressed AIF or WAV file - all written in LiveCode. I am not sure where to find the sample stack itself - possibly in the Sample Stack library or a Google search?!? I have a copy I downloaded a long time ago I could email you off list. I just tried running it under LC 8.1.x and there were script errors as it was created in a pretty old version of LiveCode - pre LC5.x, possibly pre LC 4.x Paul Dupuis Researchware From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Dec 27 09:34:14 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 16:34:14 +0200 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: References: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Not sure about that: http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=runtimerevoluti1;id=15;url=http%3A%2F%2Fmarksmith%2Eon%2Drev%2Ecom%2Frevstuff%2F Richmond. On 27/12/17 3:16 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/27/2017 7:16 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: >> Any help with this would be gratefully received! >> >> Peter >> -- >> Peter Reid >> Loughborough, UK >> > I am not sure how much help this may be but Mark Smith (email on the > stack is mark at maseurope.net) create a stack called "AudioWaveform 0.94" > ages ago that displays the waveform of an uncompressed AIF or WAV file - > all written in LiveCode. > > I am not sure where to find the sample stack itself - possibly in the > Sample Stack library or a Google search?!? I have a copy I downloaded a > long time ago I could email you off list. I just tried running it under > LC 8.1.x and there were script errors as it was created in a pretty old > version of LiveCode - pre LC5.x, possibly pre LC 4.x > > Paul Dupuis > Researchware > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Dec 27 10:04:32 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 10:04:32 -0500 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> References: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Peter, What you are trying to do is extremely complex. Each person?s voice print is unique to that person. The waveform of one person pronouncing a spoken phrase correctly could be quite different from how someone else?s waveform looks when spoken correctly, due to overtone harmonics, voice pitch, the speed at which the user is speaking etc. Think about dictation software, and about how it can still be like having a stupid secretary which misses 5% or more of the words spoken. It is a voice recognition problem which requires a lot of ?fuzzy logic? to get it right. Companies have spent millions of dollars, and tens of thousands of hours developing these tools. You need to find a codebase for this that has already been developed, and that hopefully is either open-source, (good luck with that one), or you will have to license it from some company for a steep price. It will most probably also be a large program, will require a lot of CPU resources, and memory to run on a device. Good luck, and let us know if you find a good solution! Rick > On Dec 27, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > > i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. > > I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): > > 1. LiveCode > 2. Pseudocode > 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) > 4. Academic papers > > I'm considering 2 general methods: > > a. Compare 2 voice clips directly > b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare the words in text format > > Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things to help. However I've hit problems as follows: > > a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. > > b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not support this Android library! > > Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have several benefits: > > i. it may work! > ii. it may work cross-platform > iii. it may be understandable! > > General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end method, from sound in to comparative score out! > > Any help with this would be gratefully received! > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 27 13:27:02 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 18:27:02 +0000 Subject: DoMenu not working right? Message-ID: Dictionary states: doMenu menuItem [of menu menuName]. I state: select button "Development";domenu "Object Inspector" of menu "Object". I get: Message execution error: Error description: Handler: can't find handler Hint: of ? Bob S From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed Dec 27 13:57:41 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 10:57:41 -0800 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> References: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <990ac3cb-fac2-959c-c55f-2e6b39492e07@pdslabs.net> Hi Peter, Here is some additional input: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17010516/how-to-detect-how-similar-a-speech-recording-is-to-another-speech-recording HTH - Phil Davis On 12/27/17 4:16 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. > > I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): > > 1. LiveCode > 2. Pseudocode > 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) > 4. Academic papers > > I'm considering 2 general methods: > > a. Compare 2 voice clips directly > b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare the words in text format > > Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things to help. However I've hit problems as follows: > > a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. > > b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not support this Android library! > > Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have several benefits: > > i. it may work! > ii. it may work cross-platform > iii. it may be understandable! > > General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end method, from sound in to comparative score out! > > Any help with this would be gratefully received! > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Dec 27 14:27:59 2017 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 19:27:59 +0000 Subject: Simulator woes Message-ID: Hi all, I?m heading into my annual foray into teaching mobile development, and so testing running stacks in the simulator. For the life of me, I?m unable to get a stack to show up in the simulator, where I?ve had little trouble in the past. Has something changed? When I try to test a stack in the simulator I get the ?taking a long time to launch? message several times. The simulator does launch. Eventually I see the message ?Unable to start simulation: Simulator session timed out.? This happens whether or not the simulator is launched when I hit the Test button in LiveCode. I?ve tried several different versions of LC and Xcode. All the same result. Right now I?m on: Mac OS 10.12.6 LiveCode 9.0.0 DP 11 Xcode 9.2 Is this a new problem that others are seeing? I?m not finding anything in the forums, and have a vague memory of a discussion here about this topic. Any help greatly appreciated. Devin Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Dec 27 15:39:07 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:39:07 -0600 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> Message-ID: Besides the memory footprint, there could be stress on the CPU when running scripts that aren't tightly optimized. You might see what can be pared down there. Big job, I know, with a project this large. On 12/26/17 11:04 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Our new SivaSiva app expects a lot of horse power. If we want to optimize for smaller devices, I'm not sure where to begin. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From james at thehales.id.au Wed Dec 27 15:45:59 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (James At The Hale) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 07:45:59 +1100 Subject: Dash docset now v1.4, and Make docset updated to v2.3 Message-ID: <8D0FE741-8934-4281-A136-DD50BFF7745F@thehales.id.au> Somewhere along the way I lost the summaries I had attached to the widget and library entries in the Dash docsets. This has now been corrected. ?LiveCode v1.4? is now available via the Dash user contributions area. I have also corrected the version number to reflect 1.4. ?Make docset? has also been updated on LivecodeShare to version 2.3 to include all summaries too. For those using the Linux reader Zeal, Mark Wieder found a way to load a user contributed docset. http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&p=161754&sid=a1be1bf53e5c636adc49f142fd9831ad#p161754 James From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Dec 27 17:03:13 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:03:13 -0800 Subject: DoMenu not working right? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob Sneidar wrote: > Dictionary states: doMenu menuItem [of menu menuName]. I state: select > button "Development";domenu "Object Inspector" of menu "Object". I > get: > Message execution error: > > Error description: Handler: can't find handler > > Hint: of > > ? The Dictionary also states: The doMenu command is not implemented for all menu items. This command is included in LiveCode for compatibility with imported HyperCard stacks. When I need to trigger a menu item I dispatch a menuPick message to the menu button with the appropriate string. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at livecode.org Wed Dec 27 17:11:59 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:11:59 -0800 Subject: Simulator woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Devin, I did just see the same error when launching the simulator for the first time (this session), but then I restarted the simulator device and all worked as expected, but it was a long laborious process displaying multiple messages. One trick I?ve used in the past still worked OK. When the simulator does finally open, add it?s icon to the dock, now when working on a mobile apps, launch the simulator from the dock first, when it does open fully any tests sent to the simulator from LC are opened much quicker LC 9.0.0 (dp11) Xcode 9.2 Mac OS Sierra 10.13.2 Paul > On Dec 27, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > > I?m heading into my annual foray into teaching mobile development, and so testing running stacks in the simulator. For the life of me, I?m unable to get a stack to show up in the simulator, where I?ve had little trouble in the past. Has something changed? > > When I try to test a stack in the simulator I get the ?taking a long time to launch? message several times. The simulator does launch. Eventually I see the message ?Unable to start simulation: Simulator session timed out.? This happens whether or not the simulator is launched when I hit the Test button in LiveCode. > > I?ve tried several different versions of LC and Xcode. All the same result. Right now I?m on: > > Mac OS 10.12.6 > LiveCode 9.0.0 DP 11 > Xcode 9.2 > > Is this a new problem that others are seeing? I?m not finding anything in the forums, and have a vague memory of a discussion here about this topic. Any help greatly appreciated. > > Devin > > > Devin Asay > Director > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu Wed Dec 27 17:12:17 2017 From: msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu (Marc Siskin) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:12:17 +0000 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: References: <45F4FBA3-F6E0-48D7-82A6-837F4A937E20@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <641A398D-EFA0-4282-A2A4-5574538498AC@andrew.cmu.edu> Peter, While I don?t have direct experience with these programs, there are several Open-Source code sets that may be appropriate to your use. They are located at: http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/. The Sphinx software set might be the most useful. Marc Siskin On Dec 27, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode > wrote: Hi Peter, What you are trying to do is extremely complex. Each person?s voice print is unique to that person. The waveform of one person pronouncing a spoken phrase correctly could be quite different from how someone else?s waveform looks when spoken correctly, due to overtone harmonics, voice pitch, the speed at which the user is speaking etc. Think about dictation software, and about how it can still be like having a stupid secretary which misses 5% or more of the words spoken. It is a voice recognition problem which requires a lot of ?fuzzy logic? to get it right. Companies have spent millions of dollars, and tens of thousands of hours developing these tools. You need to find a codebase for this that has already been developed, and that hopefully is either open-source, (good luck with that one), or you will have to license it from some company for a steep price. It will most probably also be a large program, will require a lot of CPU resources, and memory to run on a device. Good luck, and let us know if you find a good solution! Rick On Dec 27, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode > wrote: i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): 1. LiveCode 2. Pseudocode 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) 4. Academic papers I'm considering 2 general methods: a. Compare 2 voice clips directly b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare the words in text format Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things to help. However I've hit problems as follows: a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not support this Android library! Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have several benefits: i. it may work! ii. it may work cross-platform iii. it may be understandable! General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end method, from sound in to comparative score out! Any help with this would be gratefully received! Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode --------------- Marc Siskin Manager, Modern Language Resource Center Carnegie Mellon University msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 27 17:20:48 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:20:48 +0000 Subject: DoMenu not working right? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah! I didn't read that far. I don't think menuPick will work, unless the Livecode default menu is actually an IDE menubar. It's not really important now, I just ran into it whilst trying to use the message box to get the properties of the selected object without having to manually pop a menu. I suppose I could just find out what the name of the Object Inspector stack is and open it. :-) Bob S > On Dec 27, 2017, at 14:03 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > Dictionary states: doMenu menuItem [of menu menuName]. I state: select > > button "Development";domenu "Object Inspector" of menu "Object". I > > get: > > Message execution error: > > > > Error description: Handler: can't find handler > > > > Hint: of > > > > ? > > The Dictionary also states: > > The doMenu command is not implemented for all menu items. > This command is included in LiveCode for compatibility > with imported HyperCard stacks. > > > When I need to trigger a menu item I dispatch a menuPick message to the menu button with the appropriate string. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Dec 27 17:20:57 2017 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:20:57 +0000 Subject: Simulator woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44700897-891F-47A0-8118-2668869DF686@byu.edu> Thanks, Paul. I did finally get it working, using the old standby?deleting LiveCode preferences and then restarting the simulator. Wish I?d thought to try that combination earlier. Thanks for your suggestions. Devin On Dec 27, 2017, at 3:11 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode > wrote: Devin, I did just see the same error when launching the simulator for the first time (this session), but then I restarted the simulator device and all worked as expected, but it was a long laborious process displaying multiple messages. One trick I?ve used in the past still worked OK. When the simulator does finally open, add it?s icon to the dock, now when working on a mobile apps, launch the simulator from the dock first, when it does open fully any tests sent to the simulator from LC are opened much quicker LC 9.0.0 (dp11) Xcode 9.2 Mac OS Sierra 10.13.2 Paul On Dec 27, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Devin Asay via use-livecode > wrote: Hi all, I?m heading into my annual foray into teaching mobile development, and so testing running stacks in the simulator. For the life of me, I?m unable to get a stack to show up in the simulator, where I?ve had little trouble in the past. Has something changed? When I try to test a stack in the simulator I get the ?taking a long time to launch? message several times. The simulator does launch. Eventually I see the message ?Unable to start simulation: Simulator session timed out.? This happens whether or not the simulator is launched when I hit the Test button in LiveCode. I?ve tried several different versions of LC and Xcode. All the same result. Right now I?m on: Mac OS 10.12.6 LiveCode 9.0.0 DP 11 Xcode 9.2 Is this a new problem that others are seeing? I?m not finding anything in the forums, and have a vague memory of a discussion here about this topic. Any help greatly appreciated. Devin Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Dec 27 17:39:50 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:39:50 +0000 Subject: DoMenu not working right? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In fact, it seems I can also select which tab I want hilited like so: open stack "revPropertyInspector 1" dispatch "menuPick" to stack "revPropertyInspector 1" with "Position" -- or whatever the name of the tab is I am working on a contextual app builder, and this will come in handy. Bob S > On Dec 27, 2017, at 14:20 , Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Ah! I didn't read that far. I don't think menuPick will work, unless the Livecode default menu is actually an IDE menubar. It's not really important now, I just ran into it whilst trying to use the message box to get the properties of the selected object without having to manually pop a menu. > > I suppose I could just find out what the name of the Object Inspector stack is and open it. :-) > > Bob S From preid at reidit.co.uk Wed Dec 27 19:26:16 2017 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:26:16 +0000 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> Hi Marc, Paul, Phil, Rick and Richmond Thanks for your various thoughts. To put a bit more flesh on this, here's what I'm developing and why... In the first instance I'm doing this development for a friend who's grandmother suffers from aphasia (saying completely the wrong word). The idea is that her family can put together sets of words where each word is spoken by the app whilst displaying a relevant picture and optionally a short video clip illustrating the correct mouth shape when saying the word. The app displays the word in a very large font with a picture, then the app says the word (with the option to see a mouth shape video clip). The user responds by trying to say the same word and (the thing I can't do yet!) the app gives the user a percentage score that represents how closely the user matched the sample word. If the user's score is above a variable threshold, the user sees a smiley face, otherwise a sad face! I tried contacting Mark Smith as suggested by Paul but his email address mark at maseurope.net no longer works. So far I have everything working apart from the comparison of 2 WAV files, in particular the following is working: - the app checks for the presence of a micro SD card as the source of a collection of word packs - a word pack consists of a collection of words in sound (WAV) and picture (JPG) form, optionally with supporting video clips (MP4) - the app lets the user select a word pack at start up and loads the pack into RW file space - the user taps a large arrow icon to go forwards/backwards through the chosen list of words - for each word, the word is displayed in a large font at the top of the landscape screen, with its associated picture occupying the lower half of the screen - as the word is displayed, it is spoken - the user can tap a microphone icon and record their attempt at the word - currently I simulate the comparison of the 2 WAV files - the app gives a percentage score and displays a smiley or sad face accordingly To be honest, my main aim is to help a friend. At this stage I'm not looking beyond this, so licensing, etc. is not on the horizon at the moment. Thanks again Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK From brian at milby7.com Wed Dec 27 20:57:25 2017 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 19:57:25 -0600 Subject: iconSVG Library - add icon Message-ID: Someone mentioned a desire to use custom icons in several of the widgets included with the later versions of LiveCode. Currently they all can only be set to use icons sourced from the iconSVG library. Rather than adjusting all of them to handle arbitrary SVG, I thought it would be easier to adjust the iconSVG library to enable it to store additional icons. I've created a PR that updates the library to do so: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6253 You can compile the LCB and replace the appropriate files in your distribution to get the updated capability. You will need to set the icons via script since the browser will only show the fontawesome icons (unless you decide to put your added icons in that family). Added the following handlers: iconFamilies() - returns a list of current icon families in the library iconNamesForFamily() - returns a string list of icon names for a specified family iconListForFamily() - returns a LCB list of icon names for a specified family iconDataForFamily() - returns LCB array of icon data for a specified family addIcon() - add an icon to the iconsvg library addIconsForFamily() - add a family of icons to the iconsvg library I'm not sure if the current form will make it into a distribution, but at least it shows one way of solving the problem. Merry Christmas! Brian From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 27 21:17:41 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 02:17:41 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> Message-ID: <73E10B85-2A30-4D84-B4EF-F703B6B24546@hindu.org> 7 installs end of day one..yesterday End of today, up to 21 But with 61 crashes already! Yikes. So I expect it will get hit pretty hard... I put signs up around here and we are getting about 400 visitors a day? I expect about 50% of them are on Android? I'll have to keep the promotion quiet until we see if we can fix some of these Google's Crash reporting is pretty awesome 43 crashes on Android 7.0 8 crashes on Android 8.1 (probably my own phone - pixel) 3 crashes in Android 7.1 signal 11 (SIGSEGV), code 1 (SEGV_MAPERR) librevandroid.so Ouch?. I put in a support call to HQ?? On 12/27/17, 10:39 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: Besides the memory footprint, there could be stress on the CPU when running scripts that aren't tightly optimized. You might see what can be pared down there. Big job, I know, with a project this large. On 12/26/17 11:04 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: >Our new SivaSiva app expects a lot of horse power. If we want to optimize for smaller devices, I'm not sure where to begin. From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 27 21:46:38 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 02:46:38 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <1514368635564-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514368635564-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: @ Andy (cc support) Yes, I used tinyPng I have paid for their 50 image at a time option, awesome tool, I think we will get a site license of photoshop plug in? The home card(s) (navigation "portals) on the app are one big parent scrolling parent group with some subgroups. max 8 "rows) with the mobile scroller set to scroll the group. Of course a lot of libs have been put into memory with "start using" so besides the ~650K of images on the card there's another X number of lines of code. But my gut says: something has to be wrong in the engine? these crashes are coming from a Samsung Galaxy A7 , 2017 running 7.0 Android 6.0.1 (Marshmallow), upgradable to 7.0 (Nougat) Chipset Exynos 7880 Octa CPU Octa-core 1.9 GHz Cortex-A53 GPU Mali-T830MP3 Memory Card slot microSD, up to 256 GB (dedicated slot) Internal 32 GB, 3 GB RAM Camera Primary 16 MP (f/1.9, 27mm), autofocus, LED flash, check quality Features Geo-tagging, touch focus, face detection, panorama, HDR Video 1080p at 30fps, check quality Secondary 16 MP, f/1.9, 1080p The beta tester in Kerala who has the above phone is sending me detailed reports on crash scenarios, and thanks to your tip, videos also. Each stack we put into memory, after removing/closing the previous one, has very different requirements. We swap in and out a background graphic for almost all stacks, but these are less than 120K each for the whole card backgrounds? One issue seems to be with the browser widget and low internet bandwidth? causing crashes?on iOS we just see a white screen "like forever?." Of course we can do a better job (I tried by failed on first attempt) to use TS Net to monitor and help with that area? connectivity? but still I just find it hard to believe that the stacks + images + code we are deploying are overloading the hardware on a device with this much horsepower. I'll need to do a deep dive into Aravind's reports and see if we can pin point more specifically what is happening. I just replicated a crash on iOS where the link to open a card with the browser widget caused a crash on iOS also? but can't reproduce it now?but I do smell a "little mouse" down around webKit somewhere? but I can "hammer" like a teenager(amazing to watch how fast these kids tap and swipe on their devices) on my Pixel and the app never dies? So, another route is: take Aravind's recommendation and set the hardware requirements to 8.1 "Requires Oreo" and let the rest of the Android world wait/catch up? Not ideal, but with Google pushing so hard now on security and deadlines for new apps to run on the latest Android? it won't be long? BR On 12/26/17, 11:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of AndyP via use-livecode" wrote: Do you compress your png images? If not give this a try. https://tinypng.com From niconiko at gmail.com Wed Dec 27 22:19:49 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:19:49 +0900 Subject: screenloc not actually centered after changing scalefactor (was Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps) Message-ID: Following upon Jacqueline's advice on the original thread, here is my stack script for modifying scalefactor based on monitor screenrect differences (i.e., between the monitor I developed the stack and other monitors): /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// on preopenstack defaultStackAppearance end preopenstack on defaultStackAppearance lock screen set the fullscreen of this stack to false set the width of this stack to 1126 set the height of this stack to 627 -- Set to the lower of two screenrect-based ratios. -- On the monitor I developed this app, -- 1152 was item 3 (width) of the working screenrect and -- 682 was item 4 (height) of the working screenrect. put round((item 3 of the working screenrect) / 1152,2) into ratio_width put round((item 4 of the working screenrect) / 682,2) into ratio_height if ratio_width > ratio_height then -- current monitor is wider then devpt monitor, so set to height ratio set the scalefactor of this stack to ratio_height else -- current monitor is taller than devpt monitor, so set to width ratio set the scalefactor of this stack to ratio_width end if set the loc of this stack to the screenloc unlock screen end defaultStackAppearance /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Problem is, after opening the standalone on different PCs the rescaling fits the monitor, but the window is not centered despite the "set the loc to screenloc" command. Suggestions? Thank you. -- Nicolas Cueto From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Dec 27 22:37:02 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 21:37:02 -0600 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514368635564-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1609b31d330.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> If you limit your user base to Android 8.1 almost no one can use it. Right now it has a very tiny user base, I think only Pixel users have that version. It was just pushed to Pixels a little while ago. A whole lot of devices are still waiting for Android 7. On December 27, 2017 8:49:02 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > > ? So, another route is: take Aravind's recommendation and set the hardware > requirements to 8.1 "Requires Oreo" and let the rest of the Android world > wait/catch up? Not ideal, but with Google pushing so hard now on security > and deadlines for new apps to run on the latest Android? it won't be long? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed Dec 27 23:10:08 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:10:08 -0800 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44 In-Reply-To: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> References: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: On 12/27/17 4:26 PM, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Marc, Paul, Phil, Rick and Richmond > > Thanks for your various thoughts. > > To put a bit more flesh on this, here's what I'm developing and why... > > In the first instance I'm doing this development for a friend who's grandmother suffers from aphasia (saying completely the wrong word). The idea is that her family can put together sets of words where each word is spoken by the app whilst displaying a relevant picture and optionally a short video clip illustrating the correct mouth shape when saying the word. The app displays the word in a very large font with a picture, then the app says the word (with the option to see a mouth shape video clip). The user responds by trying to say the same word and (the thing I can't do yet!) the app gives the user a percentage score that represents how closely the user matched the sample word. If the user's score is above a variable threshold, the user sees a smiley face, otherwise a sad face! > > I tried contacting Mark Smith as suggested by Paul but his email address mark at maseurope.net no longer works. This Mark Smith was a list member who passed away in 2012. There is/was another Mark Smith on this list after that. Mark created several fine code libraries. We see inquiries here about his stuff every now and then, so I just added a page to my web site where you can download them: http://www.pdslabs.net/the-mark-smith-collection/ If you have a lib of his that isn't listed on this page, please feel free to forward it to me and I'll add it. FWIW, my set includes his 'AudioWaveformMin1.0.rev.zip' file. Phil Davis > > So far I have everything working apart from the comparison of 2 WAV files, in particular the following is working: > > - the app checks for the presence of a micro SD card as the source of a collection of word packs > - a word pack consists of a collection of words in sound (WAV) and picture (JPG) form, optionally with supporting video clips (MP4) > - the app lets the user select a word pack at start up and loads the pack into RW file space > - the user taps a large arrow icon to go forwards/backwards through the chosen list of words > - for each word, the word is displayed in a large font at the top of the landscape screen, with its associated picture occupying the lower half of the screen > - as the word is displayed, it is spoken > - the user can tap a microphone icon and record their attempt at the word > - currently I simulate the comparison of the 2 WAV files > - the app gives a percentage score and displays a smiley or sad face accordingly > > To be honest, my main aim is to help a friend. At this stage I'm not looking beyond this, so licensing, etc. is not on the horizon at the moment. > > Thanks again > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From brahma at hindu.org Wed Dec 27 23:18:18 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 04:18:18 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <1609b31d330.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514368635564-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <1609b31d330.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5316D888-BB01-4CAE-A048-87E20C5F366A@hindu.org> I am going thru Aravind's reports. His phone is top of the line Android? Samsung Galaxy A7 (3GB RAM) 7.0 Nougat, It appears that 8.1.9 RC 1 did not fix all the Android rendering issues? yes, the problem of leaving the app via home or app switch and coming back to the app, yes, that is solved, but there is something else going on here: see: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20810 check out his screen shots. http://wiki.hindu.org/uploads/20171227_095851.jpg http://wiki.hindu.org/uploads/20171227_095835.jpg what appears "behind" is a screen from previous stacks that were opened and closed. our navigation library is pretty straight forward, when it gets to this point ----------- if oStackName <> empty then # this is not the first run boot of portal deleteAllMobileControls # will destroy all except audioPlayer set the accelereratedRendering of the topstack to false end if go cardOrStackObject # e.g go Stack "b" "gems" (or whatever this string) go card 3 of "gems" whatever it is # this stack might turn on acceleratedRendering in it's openCard Handler? wait 100 milliseconds with messages close stack oStackName # closed ! but not gone? a visual "rep" of this stack is still retained, # and not only that, possibly many others of previously closed stacks wait 100 milliseconds with messages ----------------------- that's not mysterious? we know from previous tests that the wait 100 milliseconds is mission critical. Without those, even on my Pixel.. we get serious rendering issues. So? guessing that entire screen representation(s) of closed stacks are appearing behind the newly opened surprise.livecode stack? and not only that, this could be images of the screens of different stacks that were opened several steps back? so only Ganesha knows how many representations of the screen(s) that have gone by and closed by our code are still being retained in RAM until the app dies. or some kind of caching is happening that needs flushing? At least that's how it looks here. BR On 12/27/17, 5:37 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: If you limit your user base to Android 8.1 almost no one can use it. Right now it has a very tiny user base, I think only Pixel users have that version. It was just pushed to Pixels a little while ago. A whole lot of devices are still waiting for Android 7. From niconiko at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 00:02:58 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:02:58 +0900 Subject: preloading an mages dimensions Message-ID: Before setting the filename of an image object, how do I get the original dimensions of an image (jpg)? Thank you. -- Nicolas Cueto From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Dec 28 01:22:50 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:22:50 -0800 Subject: DG2: How much is mobile-only? Message-ID: It seems the swiping in DG2 is mobile only - is that correct? What other DG2 goodies are currently only usable on a mobile device? The desktop has become very influenced by mobile design trends. Apple's even begun the move to integrate the two. And the desktop is still where businesses bet on workhorses, and where developers make more money. Much of the new DG would be great on the desktop. So I hope I'm just missing something... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Dec 28 03:04:35 2017 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:04:35 -0800 Subject: preloading an mages dimensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <023917DF-FE18-4ACA-9E0D-BCBC86D15771@me.com> Hi Nick, Look in the dictionary for formattedWidth formattedHeight Peter Bogdanoff > On Dec 27, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: > > Before setting the filename of an image object, how do I get the original > dimensions of an image (jpg)? > > Thank you. > > -- > Nicolas Cueto > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 03:26:43 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:26:43 +0200 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44 In-Reply-To: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> References: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: If we start to unpack your post we can come to a slightly simpler conclusion than what you set out as your goal initially. 1. Is your main idea to have a program where the device can "do the talking" for the patient? 2. As the "owner" of a 94 year old Mother-in-law who suffers from some sort of selective dementia I realise that pointing out to her that her hallucinations are hallucinations (rather than reality) is both an uphill struggle and causes her a lot of distress: oddly enough she's far happier inside the comfort zone of her hallucinations. If "Granny" suffers from Aphasia she has permanent damage in the Broca's Area of her brain, normally due to a stroke: this cannot be sorted out, unfortunately. She could, also, suffer from a type of dementia that has similar symptoms to aphasia. Doesn't really matter which; the end result is just as bad and bl**dy awful for all concerned. If you are going for #1 then there is absolutely no need for any speech-recognition stuff or comparison between recorded sounds and those on the device. Richmond. On 28/12/17 2:26 am, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Marc, Paul, Phil, Rick and Richmond > > Thanks for your various thoughts. > > To put a bit more flesh on this, here's what I'm developing and why... > > In the first instance I'm doing this development for a friend who's grandmother suffers from aphasia (saying completely the wrong word). The idea is that her family can put together sets of words where each word is spoken by the app whilst displaying a relevant picture and optionally a short video clip illustrating the correct mouth shape when saying the word. The app displays the word in a very large font with a picture, then the app says the word (with the option to see a mouth shape video clip). The user responds by trying to say the same word and (the thing I can't do yet!) the app gives the user a percentage score that represents how closely the user matched the sample word. If the user's score is above a variable threshold, the user sees a smiley face, otherwise a sad face! > > I tried contacting Mark Smith as suggested by Paul but his email address mark at maseurope.net no longer works. > > So far I have everything working apart from the comparison of 2 WAV files, in particular the following is working: > > - the app checks for the presence of a micro SD card as the source of a collection of word packs > - a word pack consists of a collection of words in sound (WAV) and picture (JPG) form, optionally with supporting video clips (MP4) > - the app lets the user select a word pack at start up and loads the pack into RW file space > - the user taps a large arrow icon to go forwards/backwards through the chosen list of words > - for each word, the word is displayed in a large font at the top of the landscape screen, with its associated picture occupying the lower half of the screen > - as the word is displayed, it is spoken > - the user can tap a microphone icon and record their attempt at the word > - currently I simulate the comparison of the 2 WAV files > - the app gives a percentage score and displays a smiley or sad face accordingly > > To be honest, my main aim is to help a friend. At this stage I'm not looking beyond this, so licensing, etc. is not on the horizon at the moment. > > Thanks again > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Thu Dec 28 03:44:30 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:44:30 -0800 Subject: preloading an mages dimensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3e550994-57b1-de40-e021-c5e8b39c65b7@pdslabs.net> What platform? On a Mac, you can use sips. It's included with the OS. Example - typed on the command line: sips -g pixelHeight -g pixelWidth /Users/pdslabs/Desktop/IMG_4411.jpg The output: /Users/pdslabs/Desktop/IMG_4411.jpg ? pixelHeight: 750 ? pixelWidth: 1000 Phil Davis On 12/27/17 9:02 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: > Before setting the filename of an image object, how do I get the original > dimensions of an image (jpg)? > > Thank you. > > -- > Nicolas Cueto > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Thu Dec 28 04:04:57 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 02:04:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1514451897204-0.post@n4.nabble.com> I don't think its such an issue targeting the latest Android versions as Google's new developer rules as August 2018 will require that apps will be targeted at the last latest build. http://developers.googleblog.com/2017/12/improving-app-security-and-performance.html ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From dvglasgow at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 04:04:07 2017 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David Glasgow) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:04:07 +0000 Subject: "Aphasia" (was Re: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44) In-Reply-To: References: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Unfortunately, it is all rather more complicated than either Richmond or Peter suggest. There are many more contributing areas than Brocas, and what Peter describes doesn't appear to be aphasia at all, but rather a pathology of semantics or word finding. It's not possible to be more specific without more information, and my advice would be to speak with a neuropsychologist before coding. You could spend a lot of time comparing wavs and coming up with a solution to the wrong problem. Best wishes David Glasgow Sent from my iBrain via iFingers & iPad LinkedIn > On 28 Dec 2017, at 08:26, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > If we start to unpack your post we can come to a slightly simpler conclusion than what you set out as your goal initially. > > 1. Is your main idea to have a program where the device can "do the talking" for the patient? > > 2. As the "owner" of a 94 year old Mother-in-law who suffers from some sort of selective dementia I realise that > pointing out to her that her hallucinations are hallucinations (rather than reality) is both an uphill struggle > and causes her a lot of distress: oddly enough she's far happier inside the comfort zone of her hallucinations. > > If "Granny" suffers from Aphasia she has permanent damage in the Broca's Area of her brain, normally due to > a stroke: this cannot be sorted out, unfortunately. > > She could, also, suffer from a type of dementia that has similar symptoms to aphasia. > > Doesn't really matter which; the end result is just as bad and bl**dy awful for all concerned. > > If you are going for #1 then there is absolutely no need for any speech-recognition stuff or comparison > between recorded sounds and those on the device. > > Richmond. > >> On 28/12/17 2:26 am, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Marc, Paul, Phil, Rick and Richmond >> >> Thanks for your various thoughts. >> >> To put a bit more flesh on this, here's what I'm developing and why... >> >> In the first instance I'm doing this development for a friend who's grandmother suffers from aphasia (saying completely the wrong word). The idea is that her family can put together sets of words where each word is spoken by the app whilst displaying a relevant picture and optionally a short video clip illustrating the correct mouth shape when saying the word. The app displays the word in a very large font with a picture, then the app says the word (with the option to see a mouth shape video clip). The user responds by trying to say the same word and (the thing I can't do yet!) the app gives the user a percentage score that represents how closely the user matched the sample word. If the user's score is above a variable threshold, the user sees a smiley face, otherwise a sad face! >> >> I tried contacting Mark Smith as suggested by Paul but his email address mark at maseurope.net no longer works. >> >> So far I have everything working apart from the comparison of 2 WAV files, in particular the following is working: >> >> - the app checks for the presence of a micro SD card as the source of a collection of word packs >> - a word pack consists of a collection of words in sound (WAV) and picture (JPG) form, optionally with supporting video clips (MP4) >> - the app lets the user select a word pack at start up and loads the pack into RW file space >> - the user taps a large arrow icon to go forwards/backwards through the chosen list of words >> - for each word, the word is displayed in a large font at the top of the landscape screen, with its associated picture occupying the lower half of the screen >> - as the word is displayed, it is spoken >> - the user can tap a microphone icon and record their attempt at the word >> - currently I simulate the comparison of the 2 WAV files >> - the app gives a percentage score and displays a smiley or sad face accordingly >> >> To be honest, my main aim is to help a friend. At this stage I'm not looking beyond this, so licensing, etc. is not on the horizon at the moment. >> >> Thanks again >> >> Peter >> -- >> Peter Reid >> Loughborough, UK >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Thu Dec 28 06:04:58 2017 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 04:04:58 -0700 (MST) Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1514459098238-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Also are you making sure the destroyStack to true. This should be automatically done but there is no harm in forcing it. set the destroyStack of this stack to true It might also be useful to monitor these events in the browser widget and set a timer between the browserDocumentLoadBegin and browserDocumentLoadComplete to see if there is a bottle neck? browserDocumentLoadBegin pUrl browserDocumentLoadComplete pUrl browserDocumentLoadFailed pUrl, pError ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 06:24:00 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 13:24:00 +0200 Subject: "Aphasia" (was Re: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44) In-Reply-To: References: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <89498ffc-82bf-a8f9-79b9-858060ec0c60@gmail.com> Indeed, it is more complicated as we all, to one extent or another, suffer from a "pathology of semantics or word finding" as, this morning, I couldn't for the life of me remember what part of the brain was supposedly connected with aphasia and had to go and look the thing up. I do not adhere to a Brain-Mind Identity theory, so tend to think that any sort of mental problem involves more than just the physical state of the "cauliflower" inside our heads. I don't know about neuropsychologists, but I would suggest going to meet "Granny" and having a chat with her to get a feel for what might be the symptoms (after all, who really cares WHY and whether its the brain, the mind (ouch - J.J.C.Smart), or something else) and how they can, possibly, be alleviated. We've dragged my Mother-in-law to various "quacks" who have offered various accounts of what is going on, with varying degrees of plausability: she has played around with various course of tablets to little or no effect beyond making various drug companies richer. Probably the answer is something like "She's not a teenager any more." I have just had a most entertaining chat with her about why we have 2 cleaning ladies who look identical, but one is good and one is evil. There really didn't seem any point in explaining that our cleaning lady is human, and like all humans, has bad moods as well as good moods, and is not the best person in the world at covering her bad moods up: mainly because I've explained that twice before and it just hasn't "gelled". Doesn't stop my Mother-in-law from making very sharp, pertinent remarks in other subject areas. What is rather "fun" is how she keeps injecting Albanian words into conversations nowadays, not because she speaks Albanian but because her grandparents on one side used to speak it at home: really serves to confuse us, and I sometimes have a sneaking suspicion my ma-in-law is actually pulling our legs. Richmond. On 28/12/17 11:04 am, David Glasgow via use-livecode wrote: > Unfortunately, it is all rather more complicated than either Richmond or Peter suggest. There are many more contributing areas than Brocas, and what Peter describes doesn't appear to be aphasia at all, but rather a pathology of semantics or word finding. > > It's not possible to be more specific without more information, and my advice would be to speak with a neuropsychologist before coding. You could spend a lot of time comparing wavs and coming up with a solution to the wrong problem. > > Best wishes > > David Glasgow > Sent from my iBrain via iFingers & iPad > > > LinkedIn > >> On 28 Dec 2017, at 08:26, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> If we start to unpack your post we can come to a slightly simpler conclusion than what you set out as your goal initially. >> >> 1. Is your main idea to have a program where the device can "do the talking" for the patient? >> >> 2. As the "owner" of a 94 year old Mother-in-law who suffers from some sort of selective dementia I realise that >> pointing out to her that her hallucinations are hallucinations (rather than reality) is both an uphill struggle >> and causes her a lot of distress: oddly enough she's far happier inside the comfort zone of her hallucinations. >> >> If "Granny" suffers from Aphasia she has permanent damage in the Broca's Area of her brain, normally due to >> a stroke: this cannot be sorted out, unfortunately. >> >> She could, also, suffer from a type of dementia that has similar symptoms to aphasia. >> >> Doesn't really matter which; the end result is just as bad and bl**dy awful for all concerned. >> >> If you are going for #1 then there is absolutely no need for any speech-recognition stuff or comparison >> between recorded sounds and those on the device. >> >> Richmond. >> >>> On 28/12/17 2:26 am, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi Marc, Paul, Phil, Rick and Richmond >>> >>> Thanks for your various thoughts. >>> >>> To put a bit more flesh on this, here's what I'm developing and why... >>> >>> In the first instance I'm doing this development for a friend who's grandmother suffers from aphasia (saying completely the wrong word). The idea is that her family can put together sets of words where each word is spoken by the app whilst displaying a relevant picture and optionally a short video clip illustrating the correct mouth shape when saying the word. The app displays the word in a very large font with a picture, then the app says the word (with the option to see a mouth shape video clip). The user responds by trying to say the same word and (the thing I can't do yet!) the app gives the user a percentage score that represents how closely the user matched the sample word. If the user's score is above a variable threshold, the user sees a smiley face, otherwise a sad face! >>> >>> I tried contacting Mark Smith as suggested by Paul but his email address mark at maseurope.net no longer works. >>> >>> So far I have everything working apart from the comparison of 2 WAV files, in particular the following is working: >>> >>> - the app checks for the presence of a micro SD card as the source of a collection of word packs >>> - a word pack consists of a collection of words in sound (WAV) and picture (JPG) form, optionally with supporting video clips (MP4) >>> - the app lets the user select a word pack at start up and loads the pack into RW file space >>> - the user taps a large arrow icon to go forwards/backwards through the chosen list of words >>> - for each word, the word is displayed in a large font at the top of the landscape screen, with its associated picture occupying the lower half of the screen >>> - as the word is displayed, it is spoken >>> - the user can tap a microphone icon and record their attempt at the word >>> - currently I simulate the comparison of the 2 WAV files >>> - the app gives a percentage score and displays a smiley or sad face accordingly >>> >>> To be honest, my main aim is to help a friend. At this stage I'm not looking beyond this, so licensing, etc. is not on the horizon at the moment. >>> >>> Thanks again >>> >>> Peter >>> -- >>> Peter Reid >>> Loughborough, UK >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 06:36:55 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 13:36:55 +0200 Subject: C-Strings and LCB Message-ID: <57917b53-15dc-7f96-cb39-fd92faa47a87@gmail.com> I'm not sure why I'm asking these questions because I don't think I really understand them . . . 1. Does LCB differentiate between numeric variable and string variables (those that contain text)? 2. If so, are LCB string variables null-terminated? Richmond. From mark at livecode.com Thu Dec 28 08:37:51 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 13:37:51 +0000 Subject: C-Strings and LCB In-Reply-To: <57917b53-15dc-7f96-cb39-fd92faa47a87@gmail.com> References: <57917b53-15dc-7f96-cb39-fd92faa47a87@gmail.com> Message-ID: In LCB a string is a string and a number is a number - there's an operator which tests whether a string 'looks like' a number and can optionally convert it. Strings in LCB are the same as in LCS - counted and not nul terminated (so they can contain the NUL 'char' - i.e. Code 0). It does have 'bridging' string types which are nul terminated - they are there to support calling a foreign functions which use such strings. Warmest Regards, Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 28 Dec 2017, at 11:36, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Return-path: > Envelope-to: mark at livecode.com > Delivery-date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:37:11 +0100 > Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34664 helo=meg.on-rev.com) > by meg.on-rev.com with esmtp (Exim 4.85) > (envelope-from ) > id 1eUWUe-0000mS-CH; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:37:00 +0100 > Received: from mail-wm0-f48.google.com ([74.125.82.48]:44070) > by meg.on-rev.com with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) > (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) > id 1eUWUc-0000m8-J1 > for use-livecode at lists.runrev.com; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:36:58 +0100 > Received: by mail-wm0-f48.google.com with SMTP id t8so43447200wmc.3 > for ; > Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:36:58 -0800 (PST) > DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; > h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version; > bh=eSbYftgjjTzxXn5Il7a1Uigxxm0cdIfAFIsFsFVYSjI=; > b=OIEL4yoFfUOHFAIa8rf5Mvdn/MGFkGw26BTNjW360KKY/+tjXUQfx4SJ0gH0Orvfty > esQP7omZ6F0SwVFxQB3C9szyaRL+qojSdqM4jKMxWsJ7lpbgqFTDeLqSnP+oqyx2o2WF > Dqz/Ox5wTA34MTid7XiqnvcUEjc5XIjTcA2VX8LPZOGRYXbK0kbmVRzRBgOPuL1Yoe8f > eW3LA84QOti8Oo2tq95b3MkXTzFqTG7nHLpgBHLSbdqhWyNcNVeAvfWrEbyJMXxMIoPg > 6BeUcyx6wfL+yil0JubbXG+P61t1PaRMo3BOVUjVN0rdcgpijVEyluazOwifj9Uj+kdH > VSww== > X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; > d=1e100.net; s=20161025; > h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent > :mime-version; > bh=eSbYftgjjTzxXn5Il7a1Uigxxm0cdIfAFIsFsFVYSjI=; > b=LnAZ1TMoOT/k1AnQueTQWxrg8lypBXlObv9cGlSE0csvVIBPsI2MNxsDCDbMSrGA9U > uLf+SU37tqHYnkf2Sq+axtVWfEWsaaSjh31rz3an3//QtoLTh51NeypvMeKXAGzBk9gi > aUpF5WwZTBy1sGIk/QKG4ANwe6FJbVVP53RA+8XU41KqxuOiRpWrDvHH5yq6BwuRh2ZI > IOU0fPiKN+45N5pmaSlKNZE19KqeCZNrVM1o0nZVun8ufROY3Fxvri4hCCUlT65KGntz > o5PREp8yNAgRiN1V5JBrudSGeDsVm/ijVV1Ygsi4CnhVYuKSyi8lKiGqDV6C/iAd3oNY > EVww== > X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKhvTSnJXeEYKqHGe+f6DB1WmmZKLxwB3HhZkXra0kS6d7ak8XS > vLgGTo3qz25XBkgwxlHSURZIC4T8 > X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBothivSy3G1shInQ9+2IJc7/poqx6XAxD0viU3aWwTA4MnEnZ5QyVjTqzVuRCOn8RKX4gIJqcQ== > X-Received: by 10.80.139.203 with SMTP id n11mr39211890edn.200.1514461017777; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:36:57 -0800 (PST) > Received: from Richmond-Mathewsons-iMac.local ([5.53.208.66]) > by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id > y1sm30194472edl.39.2017.12.28.03.36.56 > for > (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); > Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:36:57 -0800 (PST) > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: C-Strings and LCB > Message-ID: <57917b53-15dc-7f96-cb39-fd92faa47a87 at gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 13:36:55 +0200 > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:45.0) > Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 > X-BeenThere: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 > Precedence: list > List-Id: How to use LiveCode > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > List-Post: > List-Help: > List-Subscribe: , > > From: Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > Reply-To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Richmond Mathewson > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" > Errors-To: use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com > Sender: "use-livecode" > > I'm not sure why I'm asking these questions because I don't think I really understand them . . . > > 1. Does LCB differentiate between numeric variable and string variables (those that contain text)? > > 2. If so, are LCB string variables null-terminated? > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > I'm not sure why I'm asking these questions because I don't think I really understand them . . . > > 1. Does LCB differentiate between numeric variable and string variables (those that contain text)? > > 2. If so, are LCB string variables null-terminated? > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Thu Dec 28 09:42:55 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 15:42:55 +0100 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44 In-Reply-To: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> References: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <9f7fa58587a19eb41747fb5b10fdd582@livecode.com> Hi Peter, On 2017-12-28 01:26, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > So far I have everything working apart from the comparison of 2 WAV > files, in particular the following is working: I can't really speak to the domain of application (not knowing very much, if anything about it). However, in terms of comparisons of audio clips in the way you suggest, then software like Rosetta Stone do this 'kind of thing: Rosetta Stone has a section where you have to speak words and snippets in the language you are attempting to learn and it then determines 'how close' you are to how it should be said. How accurate this is I'm not entirely sure - but I think it sounds like exactly the same problem you are trying to solve. Now, I'm not sure how Rosetta Stone actually does the analysis and comparisons - there obviously has to be some sort of normalization process, accounting for speed, pitch, volume etc.; and presumably to make it in any way 'useful' the individual syllables / vocalisations would have to be split up and then compared individually (trying to find out how many pieces of the spoken audio match up to the reference audio) - the latter would be what a percentage score could be based on. I wonder if one of the online speech-to-text services could be used as the engine here. Both google and microsoft offer a cloud based service - you send it a clip of audio and it sends back a list of possible recognitions with confidence percentage. You could potentially use this: 1) You submit the captured audio for the word/phrase which is being tested for, from this you will get a translation or list of potential translations all with a confidence percentage. 2) For each potential translation returned, use the Levenshtein distance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance) algorithm to work out which is the 'most similar' to the reference word/phrase 3) The percentage score for the test is then the confidence percentage of the closest match measured using the distance calculated in 2 modulated using a suitable function (which would probably require some empirical testing) of the computed distance. It sounds like an interesting small app - whilst there appears to be some dubiety (in the responses on the list) about potential effectiveness, seeing if it can help can't hurt, can it? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 09:38:38 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:38:38 +0200 Subject: C-Strings and LCB In-Reply-To: References: <57917b53-15dc-7f96-cb39-fd92faa47a87@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you very much. http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30352 Richmond. On 28/12/2017 3:37 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > In LCB a string is a string and a number is a number - there's an operator which tests whether a string 'looks like' a number and can optionally convert it. > > Strings in LCB are the same as in LCS - counted and not nul terminated (so they can contain the NUL 'char' - i.e. Code 0). It does have 'bridging' string types which are nul terminated - they are there to support calling a foreign functions which use such strings. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 28 Dec 2017, at 11:36, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Return-path: >> Envelope-to: mark at livecode.com >> Delivery-date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:37:11 +0100 >> Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34664 helo=meg.on-rev.com) >> by meg.on-rev.com with esmtp (Exim 4.85) >> (envelope-from ) >> id 1eUWUe-0000mS-CH; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:37:00 +0100 >> Received: from mail-wm0-f48.google.com ([74.125.82.48]:44070) >> by meg.on-rev.com with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) >> (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) >> id 1eUWUc-0000m8-J1 >> for use-livecode at lists.runrev.com; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:36:58 +0100 >> Received: by mail-wm0-f48.google.com with SMTP id t8so43447200wmc.3 >> for ; >> Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:36:58 -0800 (PST) >> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; >> h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version; >> bh=eSbYftgjjTzxXn5Il7a1Uigxxm0cdIfAFIsFsFVYSjI=; >> b=OIEL4yoFfUOHFAIa8rf5Mvdn/MGFkGw26BTNjW360KKY/+tjXUQfx4SJ0gH0Orvfty >> esQP7omZ6F0SwVFxQB3C9szyaRL+qojSdqM4jKMxWsJ7lpbgqFTDeLqSnP+oqyx2o2WF >> Dqz/Ox5wTA34MTid7XiqnvcUEjc5XIjTcA2VX8LPZOGRYXbK0kbmVRzRBgOPuL1Yoe8f >> eW3LA84QOti8Oo2tq95b3MkXTzFqTG7nHLpgBHLSbdqhWyNcNVeAvfWrEbyJMXxMIoPg >> 6BeUcyx6wfL+yil0JubbXG+P61t1PaRMo3BOVUjVN0rdcgpijVEyluazOwifj9Uj+kdH >> VSww== >> X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; >> d=1e100.net; s=20161025; >> h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent >> :mime-version; >> bh=eSbYftgjjTzxXn5Il7a1Uigxxm0cdIfAFIsFsFVYSjI=; >> b=LnAZ1TMoOT/k1AnQueTQWxrg8lypBXlObv9cGlSE0csvVIBPsI2MNxsDCDbMSrGA9U >> uLf+SU37tqHYnkf2Sq+axtVWfEWsaaSjh31rz3an3//QtoLTh51NeypvMeKXAGzBk9gi >> aUpF5WwZTBy1sGIk/QKG4ANwe6FJbVVP53RA+8XU41KqxuOiRpWrDvHH5yq6BwuRh2ZI >> IOU0fPiKN+45N5pmaSlKNZE19KqeCZNrVM1o0nZVun8ufROY3Fxvri4hCCUlT65KGntz >> o5PREp8yNAgRiN1V5JBrudSGeDsVm/ijVV1Ygsi4CnhVYuKSyi8lKiGqDV6C/iAd3oNY >> EVww== >> X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKhvTSnJXeEYKqHGe+f6DB1WmmZKLxwB3HhZkXra0kS6d7ak8XS >> vLgGTo3qz25XBkgwxlHSURZIC4T8 >> X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBothivSy3G1shInQ9+2IJc7/poqx6XAxD0viU3aWwTA4MnEnZ5QyVjTqzVuRCOn8RKX4gIJqcQ== >> X-Received: by 10.80.139.203 with SMTP id n11mr39211890edn.200.1514461017777; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:36:57 -0800 (PST) >> Received: from Richmond-Mathewsons-iMac.local ([5.53.208.66]) >> by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id >> y1sm30194472edl.39.2017.12.28.03.36.56 >> for >> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); >> Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:36:57 -0800 (PST) >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Subject: C-Strings and LCB >> Message-ID: <57917b53-15dc-7f96-cb39-fd92faa47a87 at gmail.com> >> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 13:36:55 +0200 >> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:45.0) >> Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 >> X-BeenThere: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 >> Precedence: list >> List-Id: How to use LiveCode >> List-Unsubscribe: , >> >> List-Archive: >> List-Post: >> List-Help: >> List-Subscribe: , >> >> From: Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode >> Reply-To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: Richmond Mathewson >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" >> Errors-To: use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com >> Sender: "use-livecode" >> >> I'm not sure why I'm asking these questions because I don't think I really understand them . . . >> >> 1. Does LCB differentiate between numeric variable and string variables (those that contain text)? >> >> 2. If so, are LCB string variables null-terminated? >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> I'm not sure why I'm asking these questions because I don't think I really understand them . . . >> >> 1. Does LCB differentiate between numeric variable and string variables (those that contain text)? >> >> 2. If so, are LCB string variables null-terminated? >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 10:21:43 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:21:43 +0200 Subject: Appendicitis Message-ID: Here I am trying to install LiveCode 9.0.0 dp-11 for Windows with Wine on Mac OS 10.7.5 because: 1. I'm slightly daft. 2. The Mac version won't install under 10.7.5. and I notice that the installer "wants" to install here: C:/Program Files/RunRev/LiveCode Community 9.0 (dp 11) Odd. Richmond. From mark at livecode.com Thu Dec 28 10:24:47 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:24:47 +0100 Subject: Appendicitis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2017-12-28 16:21, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > Here I am trying to install LiveCode 9.0.0 dp-11 for Windows with Wine > on > Mac OS 10.7.5 because: > > 1. I'm slightly daft. > > 2. The Mac version won't install under 10.7.5. > > and I notice that the installer "wants" to install here: > > C:/Program Files/RunRev/LiveCode Community 9.0 (dp 11) > > Odd. Why is it odd? You are running the Windows installer under a Windows emulation environment, so from its point of view it is running on Windows and so would choose the default path which is currently as it appears above :) That being said, we should probably update RunRev to LiveCode in that path ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 10:32:32 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:32:32 +0200 Subject: Appendicitis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13362633-2aac-448c-df8c-31d8242bb8bd@gmail.com> The only thing that is odd is RunRev 8-) Richmond. On 28/12/2017 5:24 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-12-28 16:21, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> Here I am trying to install LiveCode 9.0.0 dp-11 for Windows with >> Wine on >> Mac OS 10.7.5 because: >> >> 1. I'm slightly daft. >> >> 2. The Mac version won't install under 10.7.5. >> >> and I notice that the installer "wants" to install here: >> >> C:/Program Files/RunRev/LiveCode Community 9.0 (dp 11) >> >> Odd. > > Why is it odd? > > You are running the Windows installer under a Windows emulation > environment, so from its point of view it is running on Windows and so > would choose the default path which is currently as it appears above :) > > That being said, we should probably update RunRev to LiveCode in that > path ;) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Dec 28 10:43:01 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 15:43:01 +0000 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44 In-Reply-To: References: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A0730DB-EB0A-4520-9A09-27BAA091212C@iotecdigital.com> Thanks Phil that was good of you. Bob S > On Dec 27, 2017, at 20:10 , Phil Davis via use-livecode wrote: > > Mark created several fine code libraries. We see inquiries here about his stuff every now and then, so I just added a page to my web site where you can download them: From preid at reidit.co.uk Thu Dec 28 11:02:58 2017 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:02:58 +0000 Subject: Audio Processing in LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50B2B7EB-A60B-4461-A471-ABA9F782D00B@reidit.co.uk> Thanks Phil, I'm sorry to hear of Mark's demise. I've grabbed Mark's libraries and will take a look at them for use in general, with acknowledgements as appropriate. Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK > Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:10:08 -0800 > From: Phil Davis > To: Peter Reid via use-livecode > Subject: Re: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44 > > This Mark Smith was a list member who passed away in 2012. There is/was > another Mark Smith on this list after that. > > Mark created several fine code libraries. We see inquiries here about > his stuff every now and then, so I just added a page to my web site > where you can download them: > > http://www.pdslabs.net/the-mark-smith-collection/ > > If you have a lib of his that isn't listed on this page, please feel > free to forward it to me and I'll add it. > > FWIW, my set includes his 'AudioWaveformMin1.0.rev.zip' file. > > Phil Davis > From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Dec 28 11:03:38 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 11:03:38 -0500 Subject: "Aphasia" In-Reply-To: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> References: <44D025B1-697D-48B8-B24B-81C9E3B66884@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <635D378A-1256-4378-A18D-6FD2BBE97724@all-auctions.com> Hi Peter, Sorry to hear about your friend?s grandmother?s aphasia problem. While you are taking on a noble endeavor here with your app, I would suggest doing a trial run with your software first without the waveform comparison with your friend?s grandmother. Instead of having the computer do the comparison, have a human like you, sit in the room, and as you listen to what she says, type in a score with your iPad or some other device, give it a - bing 80% etc. Send that information to the other device that she is looking at so it all appears as though the computer was doing all of the processing. (Mimic that everything works as you would want it to perform.) See how she does with your test with her. Give her a few trial runs and see if she improves at all or not. (Score each trial.) If it works well, and you see a great improvement, then perhaps you might be onto something. Perhaps in your second test you can do it more remotely so that your presence is not detected in the room. (The presence of some person in the room paying attention to her may have been the motivator for the improvement, and you need to be able to rule it out.) Basically you are trying to have your app take the place of a speech therapist. If she doesn?t improve with the app functioning as you envision it, then you will have saved yourself a lot of time and aggravation. You will have also learned something in the process which might help you in the future with such apps. Good luck! Rick > On Dec 27, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Marc, Paul, Phil, Rick and Richmond > > Thanks for your various thoughts. > > To put a bit more flesh on this, here's what I'm developing and why... > > In the first instance I'm doing this development for a friend who's grandmother suffers from aphasia (saying completely the wrong word). The idea is that her family can put together sets of words where each word is spoken by the app whilst displaying a relevant picture and optionally a short video clip illustrating the correct mouth shape when saying the word. The app displays the word in a very large font with a picture, then the app says the word (with the option to see a mouth shape video clip). The user responds by trying to say the same word and (the thing I can't do yet!) the app gives the user a percentage score that represents how closely the user matched the sample word. If the user's score is above a variable threshold, the user sees a smiley face, otherwise a sad face! > > I tried contacting Mark Smith as suggested by Paul but his email address mark at maseurope.net no longer works. > > So far I have everything working apart from the comparison of 2 WAV files, in particular the following is working: > > - the app checks for the presence of a micro SD card as the source of a collection of word packs > - a word pack consists of a collection of words in sound (WAV) and picture (JPG) form, optionally with supporting video clips (MP4) > - the app lets the user select a word pack at start up and loads the pack into RW file space > - the user taps a large arrow icon to go forwards/backwards through the chosen list of words > - for each word, the word is displayed in a large font at the top of the landscape screen, with its associated picture occupying the lower half of the screen > - as the word is displayed, it is spoken > - the user can tap a microphone icon and record their attempt at the word > - currently I simulate the comparison of the 2 WAV files > - the app gives a percentage score and displays a smiley or sad face accordingly > > To be honest, my main aim is to help a friend. At this stage I'm not looking beyond this, so licensing, etc. is not on the horizon at the moment. > > Thanks again > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From preid at reidit.co.uk Thu Dec 28 11:05:39 2017 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:05:39 +0000 Subject: Audio Processing in LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69BAA819-235B-4381-B780-174BB001C8AC@reidit.co.uk> Hi Richmond My aim is to provide a trainer app to help the person improve their speaking (i.e. NOT 2 at this stage). This is what the family wanted and they (including the sufferer) are happy with its function and intended purpose so far. However, I'm not a medic, so I accept what you say. Nevertheless, I'll continue anyway as the family are very positive about it and how it helps them engage with the problem as a whole family. I don't really mind if the result is a placebo effect, just as long as the family feel it is of some benefit. Thanks. Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:26:43 +0200 > From: Richmond Mathewson > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44 > > If we start to unpack your post we can come to a slightly simpler > conclusion than what you set out as your goal initially. > > 1. Is your main idea to have a program where the device can "do the > talking" for the patient? > > 2. As the "owner" of a 94 year old Mother-in-law who suffers from some > sort of selective dementia I realise that > pointing out to her that her hallucinations are hallucinations (rather > than reality) is both an uphill struggle > and causes her a lot of distress: oddly enough she's far happier inside > the comfort zone of her hallucinations. > > If "Granny" suffers from Aphasia she has permanent damage in the Broca's > Area of her brain, normally due to > a stroke: this cannot be sorted out, unfortunately. > > She could, also, suffer from a type of dementia that has similar > symptoms to aphasia. > > Doesn't really matter which; the end result is just as bad and bl**dy > awful for all concerned. > > If you are going for #1 then there is absolutely no need for any > speech-recognition stuff or comparison > between recorded sounds and those on the device. > > Richmond. From preid at reidit.co.uk Thu Dec 28 11:13:52 2017 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:13:52 +0000 Subject: Aphasia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05B741F5-9874-40C8-9543-4352BD32B954@reidit.co.uk> Hi David Thanks for the feedback. You may be right, I'm just going on the description given by the family. As I've replied to Richmond, I'm not a medic. Nevertheless, I'll continue anyway as the family are very positive about it and how it helps them engage with the problem as a whole family. I don't really mind if the result is a placebo effect, just as long as the family feel it is of some benefit. But you're correct in general, I should make sure I'm coding towards the correct target! Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:04:07 +0000 > From: David Glasgow > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: "Aphasia" (was Re: use-livecode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 44) > > Unfortunately, it is all rather more complicated than either Richmond or Peter suggest. There are many more contributing areas than Brocas, and what Peter describes doesn't appear to be aphasia at all, but rather a pathology of semantics or word finding. > > It's not possible to be more specific without more information, and my advice would be to speak with a neuropsychologist before coding. You could spend a lot of time comparing wavs and coming up with a solution to the wrong problem. > > Best wishes > > David Glasgow > Sent from my iBrain via iFingers & iPad From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Dec 28 11:53:46 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 11:53:46 -0500 Subject: Aphasia In-Reply-To: <05B741F5-9874-40C8-9543-4352BD32B954@reidit.co.uk> References: <05B741F5-9874-40C8-9543-4352BD32B954@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Peter, Have you already looked at all of the iOS Speech Therapy apps in the Apple App Store to see if any of them do what you are trying to accomplish? There are bunch of them out there! Hope it helps! Rick From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Dec 28 12:08:32 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:08:32 -0500 Subject: DG2: How much is mobile-only? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't like presumptiously imposed limits like that. Many Windows laptops and tablets are touch capable, and apps could benefit from swipe gestures. Heck, even with a mouse, as the pointer is merely an extension of your finger. ~Roger On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 1:22 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It seems the swiping in DG2 is mobile only - is that correct? What other > DG2 goodies are currently only usable on a mobile device? > > The desktop has become very influenced by mobile design trends. Apple's > even begun the move to integrate the two. And the desktop is still where > businesses bet on workhorses, and where developers make more money. > > Much of the new DG would be great on the desktop. So I hope I'm just > missing something... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > From tom at makeshyft.com Thu Dec 28 12:27:50 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:27:50 -0500 Subject: DG2: How much is mobile-only? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: from what I know the LC engine does not yet do touch in desktop standalones..... so its not "the grid" that is limited....its the engine right now.....seems like it be important to solve this sooner than later. On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I don't like presumptiously imposed limits like that. Many Windows laptops > and tablets are touch capable, and apps could benefit from swipe gestures. > Heck, even with a mouse, as the pointer is merely an extension of your > finger. > > ~Roger > > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 1:22 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > It seems the swiping in DG2 is mobile only - is that correct? What other > > DG2 goodies are currently only usable on a mobile device? > > > > The desktop has become very influenced by mobile design trends. Apple's > > even begun the move to integrate the two. And the desktop is still where > > businesses bet on workhorses, and where developers make more money. > > > > Much of the new DG would be great on the desktop. So I hope I'm just > > missing something... > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Thu Dec 28 12:45:35 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:45:35 +0100 Subject: Mapping Field Text Ranges (was Re: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX) In-Reply-To: References: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> Message-ID: <71b5e1f1ca22cedcaf08f7a4e0a07d3c@livecode.com> On 2017-12-19 19:43, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > I'm pretty sure it would be possible to write a handler which takes > the styledText array of a field in 6.7.11 and a list of old indicies, > returning a list of new char indicies... Would that help? Paul expressed an interest in how this might work - and he provided some more background: -*- Our main application, HyperRESEARCH, a tool for academics and others doing qualitative research, relies completely on chunk ranges. It is essentially a bookmarking tool where users can select some content from a document, the character position (chunk) is grabbed and the user gives it a text label and HyperRESEARCH remembers that label "Early Childhood Behavior X" points to char S to T of document "ABC". All documents, native text, unicode (utf8 or utf16), rtf, docx, odt, etc. are read into a LiveCode field, from which the selection is made and the chunk obtained. HyoperRESEARCH saves a "Study" file that contains a LOT of these labels and chunks and documents names. As part of our migration from LC464, which is what the current release of HyperRESEARCH is based on, we needed a way to convert a character range created under LC4.6.4 to a range under LC6.7.11 that point to the exact same string for the same file. Curry Kenworthy, whose libraries we license for reading MS-Word and Open Office documents built a library based on an algorithm I came up with to send the original LC464 ranges to a helper application using sockets or IPC. The helper application retrieves the strings associated with each chunk, strips white space and passes the string back to the LC6.7.11 version of the main app, which then finds the whitespace stripped strings in the same file loaded under LC6.7.11 with an indexing mechanism to adjust the positions for the stripped whitespace. It is a bit complicated, but it works reliably. -*- From this I infer the following: 1) The study file is a list of triples - label, char chunk, document filename 2) When using the study file, the original document is loaded into a field, and the char chunks are used to display labels which the user can jump to. 3) The char chunks are old-style (pre-5.5) byte indicies not codeunit indicies The crux of the problem Paul is having comes down to (3) which has some background to explain. Before 7.0, the field was the only part of the engine which naturally handled Unicode. In these older versions the field stored text as mixed sequence of style runs of either single bytes (native text) or double bytes (unicode text). Between 5.5 and 7.0, indicies used when referencing chars in fields corresponded to codeunits - this meant that the indicies were independent of the encoding of the runs in the field. In this case char N referred to the Nth codeunit in the field, whether up until that point was all unicode, all native or a mixture of both. Before 5.5, indicies used when referencing chars in fields corresponded to bytes - this meant that you had to take into account the encoding of the runs in the field. In this case, char N referred to the Nth byte in the field. So if your field had: abcXYZabc (where XYZ are two byte unicode chars) Then char 4 would refer to the first byte of the X unicode char and *not* the two bytes it would have actually taken up. Now, importantly, the internal structure of the field did not change between 4.6.4 and 5.5, just how the 'char' chunk worked - in 6.7.11, the internal structure of the field is still the mixed runs of unicode/native bytes just as it was in 4.6.4 - the only difference is what happens if you reference char X to Y of the field. So solving this problem comes down to finding a means to 'get at' the internal encoding style runs of a field in 6.7.11. We want a handler: mapByteRangeToCharRange(pFieldId, pByteFrom, pByteTo) Returning a pair pCharFrom, pCharTo - where pByteFrom, pByteTo are a char X to Y range from 4.6.4 and pCharFrom, pCharTo are a char X to Y range *for the same range* in 6.7.11. -*- Before going into the details, an easy way to see the internal mixed encoding of a field containing unicode in 6.7.11, is to put some text which is a mixture of native text and unicode text in a field and then look at its 'text' property. Putting: ????? ????? Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, pr ????? ??? ????, ??? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ??. ??? ?? ??????? doctus necessitatibus ????????? ???????????. ???????consulatu disputando comprehensam ???????? ??? ??, ??? ????? ??????? ??. ??? ?? ??????? ????????, suscipit detraxit interesset eum ???????? ???????? ????????? ??? ??. ?? ??? ????? ???????, ?? ????? ??????? ???. Into a 6.7.11 field and then doing 'put the text of field 1' gives: ????? ????? Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, pr ????? ??? ????, ??? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ??. ??? ?? ??????? doctus necessitatibus ????????? ???????????. ???????consulatu disputando comprehensam ???????? ??? ??, ??? ????? ??????? ??. ??? ?? ??????? ????????, suscipit detraxit interesset eum ???????? ???????? ????????? ??? ??. ?? ??? ????? ???????, ?? ????? ??????? ???. Here we see some of how 6.7.11 fields handled unicode. The '?' indicate that the 'char' being fetched at that index is a unicode codeunit (i.e. not representable in the native encoding). It is relatively easy to see by inspection that these match up quite easily - for each cyrillic letter there is a '?', and the roman letters come through directly. In contrast if I do the same thing with 4.6.4, I get this: ??>?@?5??;?>?@? A?8?B? 0??=? 8?3?=?>?B?0? A?F?@?8?1?5?=?B?C?@? 5?8?. ??8?E? 5?0? D?5?C?3?8?0?B? doctus necessitatibus 0?A?A?5?=?B?8?>?@? ??E?8?;?>?A?>???E?8?0?. $?5?C?3?0?8?B?consulatu disputando comprehensam 2?8?2?5?=?4?C??@?C?? 2?8?4?5?@?5?@? ;?>?1?>?@?B?8?A?, suscipit detraxit interesset eum 0?????5?B?5?@?5? 8?=?A?>?;?5?=?A? A?0?;?C?B?0?B?C?A? C?A?C? =?5?. ??8? 4?C?>? ;?C?4?C?A? O?C?0?5?O?C?5?, 5?B? 5?;?8?B?@? F?>?@???>?@?0? ??5?@?. In order to make sure this came through vaguely sanely, I've replaced all bytes < 32 with ?. If you compare with 6.7.11 output you can see that for each '?' present in 'the text' of the 6.7.11 field, there are *two* chars in the 4.6.4 output: ????? (original) -> ????? (6.7.11) -> ??>?@?5? unicode put the encoding of char 30 of field 1 -> native We can use this information (in 6.7.11) to implement the required handler (which uses an auxillary handler to map one index): -- Map a 4.6.4 char (byte) range to a 5.5+ char range. function mapByteRangeToCharRange pFieldId, pByteFrom, pByteTo -- Convert the index of the beginning of the range. local tCharFrom put mapByteIndexToCharIndex(pFieldId, pByteFrom) into tCharFrom -- Convert the index of the end of the range. We add 1 to the end -- offset here so that we find the index of the char after the end -- char. We need to do this as the byte range of a single unicode -- char is always 2 bytes long. local tCharTo put mapByteIndexToCharIndex(pFieldId, pByteTo + 1) into tCharTo -- If the range is a singleton, charFrom and charTo will be the -- same. if tCharFrom is tCharTo then return tCharFrom,tCharTo end if -- Otherwise it is a multi-char range, and tCharTo will actually -- be the char after the end of the range (due to the adjustment -- above). return tCharFrom, tCharTo - 1 end mapByteRangeToCharRange -- Map a 4.6.4 char (byte) offset to a 5.5+ char offset. private function mapByteIndexToCharIndex pFieldId, pByteIndex -- Char indicies start from 1 local tCharIndex put 1 into tCharIndex -- We iterate over the 5.5+ notion of chars until the original 4.6.4 -- byte index is exhausted. repeat while pByteIndex > 1 -- If the encoding of the char at the 5.5+ index is native, then it -- will have required 1 byte in 4.6.4; otherwise it will have required -- 2 bytes in 4.6.4. if the encoding of char tCharIndex of pFieldId is "native" then subtract 1 from pByteIndex else subtract 2 from pByteIndex end if -- We've consumed a single 5.5+ char, and either 1 or 2 4.6.4 -- bytes at this point. add 1 to tCharIndex end repeat -- The final char index we computed is the char corresponding to -- the byte index in 4.6.4. return tCharIndex end mapByteIndexToCharIndex Now, this isn't the most efficient method of doing it - for example, you could scan from the start offset to the end offset rather than from the beginning again; or use the styledText array of the field which gives you the encoding of each style run in the field - this would save the by-char lookup. Perhaps an interesting exercise to see how fast it can be made? -*- So this is the solution for 4.6.4->6.7.11. In 7+ the internal structure of the field *did* change, it moved to using a string for each paragraph rather than a mixed style-run approach - i.e. the internal data structure for each paragraph is either a unicode string or a native string (although you can't tell the difference in 7 as that's an internal detail). In order for the approach to work in 7.x, the 4.6.4 internal structure would need to be recreated from the text of the field. This is definitely possible to do - basically the approach 4.6.4 used was to convert all chars it could to native, leaving the rest as unicode. So: xxxXyZwww (uppercase are unicode only chars, lowercase are can-be-native unicode chars) Would end up with: xxx - native X - unicode y - native Z - unicode www - native Once split up like this, rather than accessing the encoding property of the field you would use the encoding derived by splitting up the text content field in the above manner. -*- Of course, having said that (and testing in 7.0) - the encoding property of char ranges in the field should probably return 'unicode' for unicode only chars, and native for can-be-native chars. I'd need to look into why it doesn't currently - but if it did, I *think* the above code would work in 7+ as well as 5.5+. (I've filed http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20811 so I don't forget to have a look!). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dave at applicationinsight.com Thu Dec 28 14:17:21 2017 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 19:17:21 +0000 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? Message-ID: Hi Peter Yep what you are trying to do is indeed not easy if you want it to work on your friend?s Amazon tablet Are you not tempted to use ?standard? voice-to-text on Android or iOS as per your method b and then buying your friend a non-crippled droid tablet? If the answer is ?no i want to stretch the envelope? then I like Phil?s stackoverflow link the best :) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17010516/how-to-detect-how-similar-a-speech-recording-is-to-another-speech-recording Kind regards Dave > i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. > > I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): > > 1. LiveCode > 2. Pseudocode > 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) > 4. Academic papers > > I'm considering 2 general methods: > > a. Compare 2 voice clips directly > b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare the words in text format > > Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things to help. However I've hit problems as follows: > > a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. > > b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not support this Android library! > > Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have several benefits: > > i. it may work! > ii. it may work cross-platform > iii. it may be understandable! > > General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end method, from sound in to comparative score out! > > Any help with this would be gratefully received! > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK From tom at makeshyft.com Thu Dec 28 15:32:28 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 15:32:28 -0500 Subject: submitting to apple store and google store ... how much of that process can be automated? Message-ID: Hi, can someone with experience of submitting LC apps to the mobile stores tell me whether the process can be made automatic? assuming that the TOS are met and everything is kocher? I'm writing a proposal for a company to offer branded courtesy apps to their business customers ...i would be responsible for building a system that makes this possible for them....and I am confident that can be done using LC and LC Server together. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this subject From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Dec 28 15:42:13 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:42:13 -0800 Subject: Mapping Field Text Ranges (was Re: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX) In-Reply-To: <71b5e1f1ca22cedcaf08f7a4e0a07d3c@livecode.com> References: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> <71b5e1f1ca22cedcaf08f7a4e0a07d3c@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 12/28/2017 09:45 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > 3) The char chunks are old-style (pre-5.5) byte indicies not codeunit > indicies > > The crux of the problem Paul is having comes down to (3) which has some > background to explain. OMG! This is what Mr. Waddingham comes up with while on break!? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Dec 28 15:54:49 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:54:49 -0600 Subject: screenloc not actually centered after changing scalefactor (was Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/27/17 9:19 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: > Problem is, after opening the standalone on different PCs the rescaling > fits the monitor, but the window is not centered despite the "set the loc > to screenloc" command. It looks like the stack loc is being calculated at scalefactor 1, regardless of the actual scalefactor of the stack. You may have to do some calculations based on the scalefactor, in order to adjust the visual location. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Thu Dec 28 17:50:28 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:50:28 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <1514459098238-0.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514459098238-0.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <42C0AB26-3C5D-472B-8163-79F482306630@hindu.org> Great pointer's Andy, I will try those browser checks? TS Net does not interact with either the browser or a mobile play that streams audio, so we are "on our own? " to Monitor those. Meanwhile this is from London, happy new user ------- "So far so good. No problems, everything running smoothly. ? I am on a Moto G4 plus. Android version 7.0" -------- So, "weird" ? Galaxy Samsung A7 in India running Android version 7.0? --- problems Moto G4 Plus, London Android 7 -- users says it works just fine ?? Hmm, yes, this could be related to the browser because our London "market" has very high speed access to our content which is served from Cloud Flare./ not so in Cochin? wrote: Also are you making sure the destroyStack to true. This should be automatically done but there is no harm in forcing it. set the destroyStack of this stack to true It might also be useful to monitor these events in the browser widget and set a timer between the browserDocumentLoadBegin and browserDocumentLoadComplete to see if there is a bottle neck? browserDocumentLoadBegin pUrl browserDocumentLoadComplete pUrl browserDocumentLoadFailed pUrl, pError ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Dec 28 18:01:03 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:01:03 -0600 Subject: Mapping Field Text Ranges (was Re: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX) In-Reply-To: References: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> <71b5e1f1ca22cedcaf08f7a4e0a07d3c@livecode.com> Message-ID: <415a3bf5-a1ca-68fe-bf82-9631a4f26806@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/28/17 2:42 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 12/28/2017 09:45 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > >> 3) The char chunks are old-style (pre-5.5) byte indicies not codeunit >> indicies >> >> The crux of the problem Paul is having comes down to (3) which has >> some background to explain. > > OMG! This is what Mr. Waddingham comes up with while on break!? > He can't help it, it's the only way his brain works... For which we are all grateful. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From hh at hyperhh.de Thu Dec 28 18:12:44 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 00:12:44 +0100 Subject: hhTextEdit-Basic 1.0.2 Message-ID: <08AFB8A5-3EFA-437E-8914-1F6250FD969E@hyperhh.de> hhTextEdit-Basic 1.0.2 Uses a browser widget as "text field" extending by that LC's htmltext of fields to a larger set of text styling (e.g. justified textAlign), 2D-transforms/3D-rotations and filters (blur, sepia etc.). Of course you can edit the transformed/rotated/filtered text _while_ it is transformed/rotated/filtered -- a training for your imagination... ** You edit, just as with fields, the 'output' and only optionally the HTML-source! ** It has NO dependencies, uses HTML5, JavaScript, CSS3 and some features of LiveCode. Tested to work using LC 8.1.8 on Mac 10.13, Win 7/10 and Ubuntu. Works moreover using LC 9.0.0-dp11 on Mac and Win7/10. (The browser widget is 'buggy' on linux/LC 9 up to dp11). Use LC toolbar > Sample Stacks > hhTextEditBasic or http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/860/HHTextEditBasic The stack contains also hhTextEdit-Zero (a one-liner) and hhTextEdit-Mini (very basic textEdit only). More features in hhTextEdit-Full (to appear in 2018). Have fun! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Dec 28 18:21:59 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:21:59 -0600 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <42C0AB26-3C5D-472B-8163-79F482306630@hindu.org> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514459098238-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <42C0AB26-3C5D-472B-8163-79F482306630@hindu.org> Message-ID: <6149298e-1005-b109-2a5e-83a0d8f7cb61@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/28/17 4:50 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > So, "weird" ? Galaxy Samsung A7 in India running Android version 7.0? --- problems > > Moto G4 Plus, London Android 7 -- users says it works just fine The Moto is 2 years newer, has a faster CPU, and double or triple the memory depending on configuration. That's got to help. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Dec 28 19:40:21 2017 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 00:40:21 +0000 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Peter, I'm going to recommend to you this code source from CMUSphinx. Head for the main Github source and look at the Android build (link also below). Because this is in Java, you should be able to write something using the FFS in LCB. Ignore all the Gradle stuff. Just load in the pocketsphinx-android/src/main/java/)edu/cmu/pocketsphinx files and bind to the 'SpeechRecognizer' class and then the various handlers. Also check out the Sphinx4 project, particularly the allPhone stuff ( https://github.com/cmusphinx/sphinx4/tree/master/sphinx4-core/src/main/java/edu/cmu/sphinx/linguist/allphone ) https://cmusphinx.github.io/wiki/phonemerecognition/ https://github.com/cmusphinx/pocketsphinx-android/ Sean Cole *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* > > i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) > that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a > sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the > app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same > words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. > > > > I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. > Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): > > > > 1. LiveCode > > 2. Pseudocode > > 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) > > 4. Academic papers > > > > I'm considering 2 general methods: > > > > a. Compare 2 voice clips directly > > b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare > the words in text format > > > > Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things > to help. However I've hit problems as follows: > > > > a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV > files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far > too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. > > > > b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works > well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not > support this Android library! > > > > Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox > code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison > algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have > several benefits: > > > > i. it may work! > > ii. it may work cross-platform > > iii. it may be understandable! > > > > General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as > using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral > Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end > method, from sound in to comparative score out! > > > > Any help with this would be gratefully received! > > > > Peter > > -- > > Peter Reid > > Loughborough, UK > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Thu Dec 28 20:01:00 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 20:01:00 -0500 Subject: Voice Comparison in LiveCode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have had an interest in getting a speech-to-text component created for LiveCode, either as an old fashion External or, these days as a LC8/9 Widget My skill at grabbing Sphinx and building it and figuring out how to wrap and LCB interface around it is poor enough that it would take me a long time to do. Since this has come up, I'd like to pose two questions to the list: 1) is there someone out there with the expertise to create an LC8/9 Widget that wrapped Sphinx who would like to take this on? AND 2) Are there others out there interested in having such a widget that might co-fund this with me? And I suppose a 3rd question to LiveCode, would this widget be a candidate for the Feature Request crowd funding thing LiveCode has done in the past? Paul Dupuis Researchware On 12/28/2017 7:40 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Peter, > > I'm going to recommend to you this code source from CMUSphinx. Head for the > main Github source and look at the Android build (link also below). Because > this is in Java, you should be able to write something using the FFS in > LCB. Ignore all the Gradle stuff. Just load in > the pocketsphinx-android/src/main/java/)edu/cmu/pocketsphinx files and bind > to the 'SpeechRecognizer' class and then the various handlers. Also check > out the Sphinx4 project, particularly the allPhone stuff ( > https://github.com/cmusphinx/sphinx4/tree/master/sphinx4-core/src/main/java/edu/cmu/sphinx/linguist/allphone > ) > > https://cmusphinx.github.io/wiki/phonemerecognition/ > > https://github.com/cmusphinx/pocketsphinx-android/ > > Sean Cole > *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* > > > >>> i'm developing an app for cheap Android tablets (e.g. Amazon Fire 7in) >> that allows a user to practice speaking a set of words. The app plays a >> sample of a word and the user then tries to say the same word. So far the >> app can play sample words and capture the user's attempts for the same >> words. The sample words and user attempts are uncompressed WAV files. >>> I'm trying to find the code to do the comparison of 2 WAV files. >> Ideally, the code will be in the following formats (best first): >>> 1. LiveCode >>> 2. Pseudocode >>> 3. Other code (Python, Java, C++ etc.) >>> 4. Academic papers >>> >>> I'm considering 2 general methods: >>> >>> a. Compare 2 voice clips directly >>> b. Convert 2 voice clips to text (using voice-to-text) and then compare >> the words in text format >>> Note that Ali Lloyd from the LiveCode team has developed various things >> to help. However I've hit problems as follows: >>> a. Ali has wrapped a standard Android sound library that compares 2 WAV >> files and gives a percentage match. However the comparison is either far >> too forgiving or far too strict, i.e. highly unreliable. >>> b. Ali has wrapped a standard Android voice-to-text library which works >> well with the devices he's tried it on. However, the Amazon tablets do not >> support this Android library! >>> Given the two developments from Ali both relied on preformed blackbox >> code (Android Java libraries), i may have to implement a comparison >> algorithm from scratch. A solution that's completely in LiveCode would have >> several benefits: >>> i. it may work! >>> ii. it may work cross-platform >>> iii. it may be understandable! >>> >>> General reading around this subject produces recommendations such as >> using FFTs (Fast Fourier Transforms), MFCCs (Mel Frequency Cepstral >> Coefficient), etc. but I can't find anything that gives an end-to-end >> method, from sound in to comparative score out! >>> Any help with this would be gratefully received! >>> >>> Peter >>> -- >>> Peter Reid >>> Loughborough, UK >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Thu Dec 28 20:01:49 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 20:01:49 -0500 Subject: Mapping Field Text Ranges (was Re: Interprocess Communication (IPC) under OSX) In-Reply-To: <71b5e1f1ca22cedcaf08f7a4e0a07d3c@livecode.com> References: <628fa7dd-7d01-79cf-0e96-444727d7153a@researchware.com> <79d261fb-25a2-405d-fc99-1ededc38a225@fourthworld.com> <2fc51f0c-df18-c577-0fbe-aa01aafe79ac@researchware.com> <71b5e1f1ca22cedcaf08f7a4e0a07d3c@livecode.com> Message-ID: <21acda93-bb6f-b538-17f8-3ee46d0c014f@researchware.com> Mark, Thank you so much!!!! On 12/28/2017 12:45 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-12-19 19:43, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> I'm pretty sure it would be possible to write a handler which takes >> the styledText array of a field in 6.7.11 and a list of old indicies, >> returning a list of new char indicies... Would that help? > > Paul expressed an interest in how this might work - and he provided > some more background: > > -*- > > Our main application, HyperRESEARCH, a tool for academics and others > doing qualitative research, relies completely on chunk ranges. It is > essentially a bookmarking tool where users can select some content from > a document, the character position (chunk) is grabbed and the user gives > it a text label and HyperRESEARCH remembers that label "Early Childhood > Behavior X" points to char S to T of document "ABC". All documents, > native text, unicode (utf8 or utf16), rtf, docx, odt, etc. are read into > a LiveCode field, from which the selection is made and the chunk > obtained. HyoperRESEARCH saves a "Study" file that contains a LOT of > these labels and chunks and documents names. > > As part of our migration from LC464, which is what the current release > of HyperRESEARCH is based on, we needed a way to convert a character > range created under LC4.6.4 to a range under LC6.7.11 that point to the > exact same string for the same file. Curry Kenworthy, whose libraries we > license for reading MS-Word and Open Office documents built a library > based on an algorithm I came up with to send the original LC464 ranges > to a helper application using sockets or IPC. The helper application > retrieves the strings associated with each chunk, strips white space and > passes the string back to the LC6.7.11 version of the main app, which > then finds the whitespace stripped strings in the same file loaded under > LC6.7.11 with an indexing mechanism to adjust the positions for the > stripped whitespace. It is a bit complicated, but it works reliably. > > -*- > > From this I infer the following: > > 1) The study file is a list of triples - label, char chunk, document > filename > > 2) When using the study file, the original document is loaded into a > field, and the char chunks are used to display labels which the user > can jump to. > > 3) The char chunks are old-style (pre-5.5) byte indicies not codeunit > indicies > > The crux of the problem Paul is having comes down to (3) which has > some background to explain. > > Before 7.0, the field was the only part of the engine which naturally > handled Unicode. In these older versions the field stored text as > mixed sequence of style runs of either single bytes (native text) or > double bytes (unicode text). > > Between 5.5 and 7.0, indicies used when referencing chars in fields > corresponded to codeunits - this meant that the indicies were > independent of the encoding of the runs in the field. In this case > char N referred to the Nth codeunit in the field, whether up until > that point was all unicode, all native or a mixture of both. > > Before 5.5, indicies used when referencing chars in fields > corresponded to bytes - this meant that you had to take into account > the encoding of the runs in the field. In this case, char N referred > to the Nth byte in the field. So if your field had: > > ?abcXYZabc (where XYZ are two byte unicode chars) > > Then char 4 would refer to the first byte of the X unicode char and > *not* the two bytes it would have actually taken up. > > Now, importantly, the internal structure of the field did not change > between 4.6.4 and 5.5, just how the 'char' chunk worked - in 6.7.11, > the internal structure of the field is still the mixed runs of > unicode/native bytes just as it was in 4.6.4 - the only difference is > what happens if you reference char X to Y of the field. > > So solving this problem comes down to finding a means to 'get at' the > internal encoding style runs of a field in 6.7.11. We want a handler: > > ? mapByteRangeToCharRange(pFieldId, pByteFrom, pByteTo) > > Returning a pair pCharFrom, pCharTo - where pByteFrom, pByteTo are a > char X to Y range from 4.6.4 and pCharFrom, pCharTo are a char X to Y > range *for the same range* in 6.7.11. > > -*- > > Before going into the details, an easy way to see the internal mixed > encoding of a field containing unicode in 6.7.11, is to put some text > which is a mixture of native text and unicode text in a field and then > look at its 'text' property. Putting: > > ????? ????? Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, pr ????? ??? ????, ??? ?????? > ?????? ?????????? ??. ??? ?? ??????? doctus necessitatibus ????????? > ???????????. ???????consulatu disputando comprehensam? ???????? ??? > ??, ??? ????? ??????? ??. ??? ?? ??????? ????????, suscipit detraxit > interesset eum ???????? ???????? ????????? ??? ??. ?? ??? ????? > ???????, ?? ????? ??????? ???. > > Into a 6.7.11 field and then doing 'put the text of field 1' gives: > > ????? ????? Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, pr ????? ??? ????, ??? ?????? > ?????? ?????????? ??. ??? ?? ??????? doctus necessitatibus ????????? > ???????????. ???????consulatu disputando comprehensam? ???????? ??? > ??, ??? ????? ??????? ??. ??? ?? ??????? ????????, suscipit detraxit > interesset eum ???????? ???????? ????????? ??? ??. ?? ??? ????? > ???????, ?? ????? ??????? ???. > > Here we see some of how 6.7.11 fields handled unicode. The '?' > indicate that the 'char' being fetched at that index is a unicode > codeunit (i.e. not representable in the native encoding). It is > relatively easy to see by inspection that these match up quite easily > - for each cyrillic letter there is a '?', and the roman letters come > through directly. > > In contrast if I do the same thing with 4.6.4, I get this: > > ??>?@?5??;?>?@? A?8?B? > 0??=? 8?3?=?>?B?0? A?F?@?8?1?5?=?B?C?@? 5?8?. > ??8?E? 5?0? D?5?C?3?8?0?B? doctus necessitatibus 0?A?A?5?=?B?8?>?@? > ??E?8?;?>?A?>???E?8?0?. $?5?C?3?0?8?B?consulatu disputando > comprehensam? 2?8?2?5?=?4?C? ?@?C?? 2?8?4?5?@?5?@? ;?>?1?>?@?B?8?A?, > suscipit detraxit interesset eum 0?????5?B?5?@?5? 8?=?A?>?;?5?=?A? > A?0?;?C?B?0?B?C?A? C?A?C? =?5?. ??8? 4?C?>? ;?C?4?C?A? O?C?0?5?O?C?5?, > 5?B? 5?;?8?B?@? F?>?@???>?@?0? ??5?@?. > > In order to make sure this came through vaguely sanely, I've replaced > all bytes < 32 with ?. If you compare with 6.7.11 output you can see > that for each '?' present in 'the text' of the 6.7.11 field, there are > *two* chars in the 4.6.4 output: > > ??? ????? (original) -> ????? (6.7.11) -> ??>?@?5? > This shows quite clearly the difference between 4.6.4 and 6.7.11 in > handling text/char ranges - in 6.7.11 whilst internally each unicode > codeunit takes up two bytes you don't see that, instead you see only a > single 'char'. In comparison in 4.6.4, all the gory details are laid > bare - you see the individual bytes making up the unicode codeunits. > > -*- > > Now, the above is only a rough way to see the internals of the field - > the ? char in any one place in the text could be an actual '?' or a > '?' which comes about because there is a non-native codeunit there. > However, you can tell the encoding of any one char in a field by > looking at the 'encoding' property of the char. > > ?? put the encoding of char 1 of field 1 -> unicode > ?? put the encoding of char 30 of field 1 -> native > > We can use this information (in 6.7.11) to implement the required > handler (which uses an auxillary handler to map one index): > > -- Map a 4.6.4 char (byte) range to a 5.5+ char range. > function mapByteRangeToCharRange pFieldId, pByteFrom, pByteTo > ?? -- Convert the index of the beginning of the range. > ?? local tCharFrom > ?? put mapByteIndexToCharIndex(pFieldId, pByteFrom) into tCharFrom > > ?? -- Convert the index of the end of the range. We add 1 to the end > ?? -- offset here so that we find the index of the char after the end > ?? -- char. We need to do this as the byte range of a single unicode > ?? -- char is always 2 bytes long. > ?? local tCharTo > ?? put mapByteIndexToCharIndex(pFieldId, pByteTo + 1) into tCharTo > > ?? -- If the range is a singleton, charFrom and charTo will be the > ?? -- same. > ?? if tCharFrom is tCharTo then > ????? return tCharFrom,tCharTo > ?? end if > > ?? -- Otherwise it is a multi-char range, and tCharTo will actually > ?? -- be the char after the end of the range (due to the adjustment > ?? -- above). > ?? return tCharFrom, tCharTo - 1 > end mapByteRangeToCharRange > > -- Map a 4.6.4 char (byte) offset to a 5.5+ char offset. > private function mapByteIndexToCharIndex pFieldId, pByteIndex > ?? -- Char indicies start from 1 > ?? local tCharIndex > ?? put 1 into tCharIndex > > ?? -- We iterate over the 5.5+ notion of chars until the original 4.6.4 > ?? -- byte index is exhausted. > ?? repeat while pByteIndex > 1 > ????? -- If the encoding of the char at the 5.5+ index is native, then it > ????? -- will have required 1 byte in 4.6.4; otherwise it will have > required > ????? -- 2 bytes in 4.6.4. > ????? if the encoding of char tCharIndex of pFieldId is "native" then > ???????? subtract 1 from pByteIndex > ????? else > ???????? subtract 2 from pByteIndex > ????? end if > ????? -- We've consumed a single 5.5+ char, and either 1 or 2 4.6.4 > ????? -- bytes at this point. > ????? add 1 to tCharIndex > ?? end repeat > > ?? -- The final char index we computed is the char corresponding to > ?? -- the byte index in 4.6.4. > ?? return tCharIndex > end mapByteIndexToCharIndex > > Now, this isn't the most efficient method of doing it - for example, > you could scan from the start offset to the end offset rather than > from the beginning again; or use the styledText array of the field > which gives you the encoding of each style run in the field - this > would save the by-char lookup. Perhaps an interesting exercise to see > how fast it can be made? > > -*- > > So this is the solution for 4.6.4->6.7.11. In 7+ the internal > structure of the field *did* change, it moved to using a string for > each paragraph rather than a mixed style-run approach - i.e. the > internal data structure for each paragraph is either a unicode string > or a native string (although you can't tell the difference in 7 as > that's an internal detail). In order for the approach to work in 7.x, > the 4.6.4 internal structure would need to be recreated from the text > of the field. This is definitely possible to do - basically the > approach 4.6.4 used was to convert all chars it could to native, > leaving the rest as unicode. So: > > ? xxxXyZwww (uppercase are unicode only chars, lowercase are > can-be-native unicode chars) > > Would end up with: > > ? xxx - native > ? X - unicode > ? y - native > ? Z - unicode > ? www - native > > Once split up like this, rather than accessing the encoding property > of the field you would use the encoding derived by splitting up the > text content field in the above manner. > > -*- > > Of course, having said that (and testing in 7.0) - the encoding > property of char ranges in the field should probably return 'unicode' > for unicode only chars, and native for can-be-native chars. I'd need > to look into why it doesn't currently - but if it did, I *think* the > above code would work in 7+ as well as 5.5+. (I've filed > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20811 so I don't forget to > have a look!). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From brahma at hindu.org Thu Dec 28 20:03:17 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:03:17 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <6149298e-1005-b109-2a5e-83a0d8f7cb61@hyperactivesw.com> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514459098238-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <42C0AB26-3C5D-472B-8163-79F482306630@hindu.org> <6149298e-1005-b109-2a5e-83a0d8f7cb61@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: This is the Galaxy Samung A7 2017 http://www.samsung.com/in/smartphones/galaxy-a7-2017-sm-a720f/SM-A720FZDDINS/ pertainly doesn't seem under powered?how is a "2017" two years old?... do they just pump out the same device and slap new date on it? but the hardward/components are the same as they were? On 12/28/17, 1:22 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: On 12/28/17 4:50 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: >So, "weird" ? Galaxy Samsung A7 in India running Android version 7.0? --- problems >Moto G4 Plus, London Android 7 -- users says it works just fine The Moto is 2 years newer, has a faster CPU, and double or triple the memory depending on configuration. That's got to help. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Dec 28 20:49:17 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:49:17 -0800 Subject: DG2: How much is mobile-only? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tom Glod wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 1:22 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> > It seems the swiping in DG2 is mobile only - is that correct? >> > What other DG2 goodies are currently only usable on a mobile >> > device? ... > from what I know the LC engine does not yet do touch in desktop > standalones..... so its not "the grid" that is limited....its the > engine right now..... Swipe can be done with a single finger, whether on a mobile screen or a laptop trackpad. > seems like it be important to solve this sooner than later. For those things requiring multi-touch, yes, it would be nice to see the engine support that on the desktop too. http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8446 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Dec 28 21:03:57 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:03:57 -0800 Subject: submitting to apple store and google store ... how much of that process can be automated? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58149ca0-3e22-9f41-2608-af9140cc788a@fourthworld.com> Tom Glod wrote: > Hi, can someone with experience of submitting LC apps to the mobile > stores tell me whether the process can be made automatic? assuming > that the TOS are met and everything is kocher? > > I'm writing a proposal for a company to offer branded courtesy apps > to their business customers ...i would be responsible for building a > system that makes this possible for them....and I am confident that > can be done using LC and LC Server together. > > Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this subject Bad news: "Apple?s widened ban on templated apps is wiping small businesses from the App Store" Good news: Deploying to Android exclusively cuts the work in half. :) Or deploy to the web and have it all, with no deployment hassle or additional 30% "distribution tax". -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Dec 28 21:13:30 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 20:13:30 -0600 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514459098238-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <42C0AB26-3C5D-472B-8163-79F482306630@hindu.org> <6149298e-1005-b109-2a5e-83a0d8f7cb61@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <160a00bb510.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> That's a different model than Google gave me. This one has better specs. I'm not sure how the CPU compares to the Snapdragon but in general it seems sufficient. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 28, 2017 7:05:08 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > This is the Galaxy Samung A7 2017 > > http://www.samsung.com/in/smartphones/galaxy-a7-2017-sm-a720f/SM-A720FZDDINS/ > > pertainly doesn't seem under powered?how is a "2017" two years old?... do > they just pump out the same device and slap new date on it? but the > hardward/components are the same as they were? > > > On 12/28/17, 1:22 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via > use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > On 12/28/17 4:50 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > >So, "weird" ? Galaxy Samsung A7 in India running Android version 7.0? --- > problems > >Moto G4 Plus, London Android 7 -- users says it works just fine > > The Moto is 2 years newer, has a faster CPU, and double or triple the > memory depending on configuration. That's got to help. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Dec 28 23:36:47 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 04:36:47 +0000 Subject: DG2: How much is mobile-only? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Swiping in DG2 is NOT mobile-only. Just click and drag in the desktop, and it should work. Best, Panos -- On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 1:49 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Tom Glod wrote: > > >> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 1:22 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> > It seems the swiping in DG2 is mobile only - is that correct? > >> > What other DG2 goodies are currently only usable on a mobile > >> > device? > ... > > from what I know the LC engine does not yet do touch in desktop > > standalones..... so its not "the grid" that is limited....its the > > engine right now..... > > Swipe can be done with a single finger, whether on a mobile screen or a > laptop trackpad. > > > seems like it be important to solve this sooner than later. > > For those things requiring multi-touch, yes, it would be nice to see the > engine support that on the desktop too. > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8446 > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Dec 29 01:35:04 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:35:04 -0500 Subject: submitting to apple store and google store ... how much of that process can be automated? In-Reply-To: <58149ca0-3e22-9f41-2608-af9140cc788a@fourthworld.com> References: <58149ca0-3e22-9f41-2608-af9140cc788a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: gee....thanks for that ...... I must say I couldn't be happier. I've had iOS crossed off my list of supported platforms since starting to do this work......support OS X ....but no apple mobile for this guy.......too much apple to deal with .......Its hard to support a company with such closed and sometimes shady policies and approaches. maybe one day it will change. Appreciate the thoughts as always....clears things right up for me. On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 9:03 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Tom Glod wrote: > > > Hi, can someone with experience of submitting LC apps to the mobile > > stores tell me whether the process can be made automatic? assuming > > that the TOS are met and everything is kocher? > > > > I'm writing a proposal for a company to offer branded courtesy apps > > to their business customers ...i would be responsible for building a > > system that makes this possible for them....and I am confident that > > can be done using LC and LC Server together. > > > > Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this subject > > > Bad news: "Apple?s widened ban on templated apps is wiping small > businesses from the App Store" > plated-apps-is-wiping-small-businesses-from-the-app-store/> > > > Good news: Deploying to Android exclusively cuts the work in half. :) > > Or deploy to the web and have it all, with no deployment hassle or > additional 30% "distribution tax". > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Dec 29 05:52:05 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 11:52:05 +0100 Subject: submitting to apple store and google store ... how much of that process can be automated? In-Reply-To: <58149ca0-3e22-9f41-2608-af9140cc788a@fourthworld.com> References: <58149ca0-3e22-9f41-2608-af9140cc788a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, > Am 29.12.2017 um 03:03 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode : > ... > Bad news: "Apple?s widened ban on templated apps is wiping small businesses from the App Store" > > ... I had no idea that LC is a ?commercialized template or app generation service?!? Is it? > -- > Richard Gaskin Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Dec 29 07:49:53 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 13:49:53 +0100 Subject: submitting to apple store and google store ... how much of that process can be automated? In-Reply-To: References: <58149ca0-3e22-9f41-2608-af9140cc788a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > Am 29.12.2017 um 11:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode >: > > Hi Richard, > >> Am 29.12.2017 um 03:03 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode >: >> ... >> Bad news: "Apple?s widened ban on templated apps is wiping small businesses from the App Store" >> > >> ... > > I had no idea that LC is a ?commercialized template or app generation service?!? > Is it? I don?t think it is. Richard provided the link because Tom wrote "I'm writing a proposal for a company to offer branded courtesy apps to their business customers?? Hope i did not misinterpreted it. ;) Regards, Matthias > >> -- >> Richard Gaskin > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe Tel +49 5741 310000 ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Dec 29 09:22:46 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 09:22:46 -0500 Subject: submitting to apple store and google store ... how much of that process can be automated? In-Reply-To: References: <58149ca0-3e22-9f41-2608-af9140cc788a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: hi guys...just to clear it up...i was going to use LC to create a system for the client in which they can create branded apps for their customers. the company is a yellow-pages kind of company that provides services to business. so that would have fallen into the templated category. On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Am 29.12.2017 um 11:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > Hi Richard, > > > >> Am 29.12.2017 um 03:03 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > >> ... > >> Bad news: "Apple?s widened ban on templated apps is wiping small > businesses from the App Store" > >> templated-apps-is-wiping-small-businesses-from-the-app-store/ < > https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/08/apples-widened-ban-on- > templated-apps-is-wiping-small-businesses-from-the-app-store/>> > >> ... > > > > I had no idea that LC is a ?commercialized template or app generation > service?!? > > Is it? > > I don?t think it is. > > > Richard provided the link because Tom wrote "I'm writing a proposal for a > company to offer branded courtesy apps to > their business customers?? > > Hope i did not misinterpreted it. ;) > > Regards, > Matthias > > > > > > > >> -- > >> Richard Gaskin > > > > Best > > > > Klaus > > > > -- > > Klaus Major > > http://www.major-k.de > > klaus at major-k.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Matthias Rebbe > Tel +49 5741 310000 > ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Dec 29 09:26:22 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:26:22 +0100 Subject: submitting to apple store and google store ... how much of that process can be automated? In-Reply-To: References: <58149ca0-3e22-9f41-2608-af9140cc788a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Tom, > Am 29.12.2017 um 15:22 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode : > > hi guys...just to clear it up...i was going to use LC to create a system > for the client in which they can create branded apps for their customers. > the company is a yellow-pages kind of company that provides services to > business. so that would have fallen into the templated category. AHA! :-) Looks like I misunderstood your initial posting, thanks for clarifying! > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> >>> Am 29.12.2017 um 11:52 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: >>> >>> Hi Richard, >>> >>>> Am 29.12.2017 um 03:03 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: >>>> ... >>>> Bad news: "Apple?s widened ban on templated apps is wiping small >> businesses from the App Store" >>>> > templated-apps-is-wiping-small-businesses-from-the-app-store/ < >> https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/08/apples-widened-ban-on- >> templated-apps-is-wiping-small-businesses-from-the-app-store/>> >>>> ... >>> >>> I had no idea that LC is a ?commercialized template or app generation >> service?!? >>> Is it? >> >> I don?t think it is. >> >> Richard provided the link because Tom wrote "I'm writing a proposal for a >> company to offer branded courtesy apps to >> their business customers??... Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Dec 29 10:01:49 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 17:01:49 +0200 Subject: hhTextEdit-Basic 1.0.2 In-Reply-To: <08AFB8A5-3EFA-437E-8914-1F6250FD969E@hyperhh.de> References: <08AFB8A5-3EFA-437E-8914-1F6250FD969E@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <5bd76022-9766-51ad-2b13-23f28732aa45@gmail.com> Very Impressive Indeed! Richmond. On 29/12/2017 1:12 am, hh via use-livecode wrote: > hhTextEdit-Basic 1.0.2 > > Uses a browser widget as "text field" extending by that LC's htmltext of fields to > a larger set of text styling (e.g. justified textAlign), 2D-transforms/3D-rotations and > filters (blur, sepia etc.). Of course you can edit the transformed/rotated/filtered > text _while_ it is transformed/rotated/filtered -- a training for your imagination... > > ** You edit, just as with fields, the 'output' and only optionally the HTML-source! ** > It has NO dependencies, uses HTML5, JavaScript, CSS3 and some features of LiveCode. > > Tested to work using LC 8.1.8 on Mac 10.13, Win 7/10 and Ubuntu. > Works moreover using LC 9.0.0-dp11 on Mac and Win7/10. > (The browser widget is 'buggy' on linux/LC 9 up to dp11). > > Use LC toolbar > Sample Stacks > hhTextEditBasic > or > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/860/HHTextEditBasic > > The stack contains also hhTextEdit-Zero (a one-liner) and hhTextEdit-Mini (very basic > textEdit only). More features in hhTextEdit-Full (to appear in 2018). > > Have fun! > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com Fri Dec 29 10:31:44 2017 From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:31:44 +0000 Subject: RESTful PUT error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20171229153144.Horde.5hkOpRZyPRz60faKq18kY9k@ua850258.serversignin.com> Thanks for the feedback on proper headers! I looked again at the PipeDrive API [https://developers.pipedrive.com/docs/api/v1/#!/Persons/put_persons_id] in more detail and noticed that the Phone I was trying to change was actually looking for an array rather than a number or string so I thought I would try making a smaller change first. Name is a string so it should be easier to get a proof of concept with (or so I thought). This is the sample test I'm doing in LiveCode (9dp11): Put random(999) into tID Put "https://api.pipedrive.com/v1/persons/3?api_token=ce95ed7f11e167194b0b4a6f6f1032df4fa13792" into tRequestURL Put "Content-Type: application/json" &lf& "Accept: application/json" into tHeaders Put "Homer Simpson" into tArray["name"] Put ArrayToJSON(tArray) into tJSONtoUpload put tsNetPost(tID, tRequestURL, tHeaders, tJSONtoUpload, "updateWasCompleted") into tResult But I end up getting this returned: {"status":false,"error":"Unknown method ."} So I tried sending the command as FORM data: put "Homer Simpson" into tName put "Accept: application/json" into tHeaders set the httpHeaders to tHeaders put "https://api.pipedrive.com/v1/persons/3?api_token=ce95ed7f11e167194b0b4a6f6f1032df4fa13792" into tRequestURL get libURLFormData("name", tName) put it into url tRequestURL But I didn't get a response from the server via "it" or "the result" so I had to manually verify the data. What I discovered was that the Name was successfully updated! So my issue seems to be my header announcing to the server what format I am sending data in. A response from the server would be nice, but I can always do some error checking to verify myself. I didn't see a tsNet command for PUT, but I could be mistaken. The API doc says an "update" must be done as PUT but a "create new" be done as POST. After lots of trial & error it seems that I am able to POST JSON, but can't PUT JSON. And I'm able to PUT FORM data, but can't POST FORM data. Still not sure why one format doesn't work both places, but happy that I cracked this and will be able to upsell a client on an integration to my existing product with them! --Andrew Bell From brahma at hindu.org Fri Dec 29 15:25:14 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 20:25:14 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <160a00bb510.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514459098238-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <42C0AB26-3C5D-472B-8163-79F482306630@hindu.org> <6149298e-1005-b109-2a5e-83a0d8f7cb61@hyperactivesw.com> <160a00bb510.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3CC4BD95-FEA2-464F-86E8-63D6AD91BCC2@hindu.org> FYI here is Aravind's from Kerala comments today. To what extent we can realistically fit this app onto a phone with only 1GB of RAM? I don't know. Perhaps this is useful for other Android developers looking for a broad base in Asia, although this may be all "old news" to most of you? here it is. one issue we have is: we cannot overlay any other controls over the browser widget.. so even if we can't use TSNet for this but monitor the browserDocument* msgs? we still need a way to communicate on the UI? I'll need to fiddle with that.. I suppose the only option is to "raise a toast" from the bottom while at the same dynamically shrinking the height of the browser widget. Any ideas there? Meanwhile, another app we have that is HTML five, he says "runs fine" but it never fetches content from the web. ---------------- Device (my Samsung Galaxy A7) is using an internet connection(3G) which have a practical download at a maximum rate of 300kb/s(but speed test shows 2mb/s download speed). but sometimes during peak time the speed drastically reduces. The app may be set for an ideal condition. suggestion: A message window in between the request and displaying download content showing "Downloading please wait". If net is slow , allow to abort by giving a message "Slow Internet, will take more time, Please close any other app(if any) using internet or abort." give buttons "wait" and "abort". if net is fast enough, message won't be seen. so the app will have better control and userfrienliness. More over here there are new phones with 1Gb ram. so we need to optimise the app. The app must sense the screen resolution(seems only less than 10 standard resolutions). and usually all other parameters are relative to that. there are certain rare exceptions also. Another is three Ram options (1,2 and 3 or more). In apple there is only 5 iphones(4,5,6,7,8). SivsSiva is a great app and hope it should reach the masses, especially in India. see the spec of this new phone with Oreo OS(about Rs.7000/-) https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_2-8513.php Samsung A7(exynos) may be slower then MotoG4 plus(snapdragon). Or May differ in some other specs. ---------------- On 12/28/17, 4:13 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: That's a different model than Google gave me. This one has better specs. I'm not sure how the CPU compares to the Snapdragon but in general it seems sufficient. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Dec 29 15:53:09 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:53:09 +0100 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table Message-ID: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> Hi, i need to update regularly about 2000 rows/records of a MySQL table with Livecode Server. What is better? Executing the 2000 update commands in one take using revexecuteSQL or should i execute one update command after each other within a repeat loop? What do you think? Regards, Matthias From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Dec 29 16:30:53 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:30:53 -0600 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <3CC4BD95-FEA2-464F-86E8-63D6AD91BCC2@hindu.org> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <1514459098238-0.post@n4.nabble.com> <42C0AB26-3C5D-472B-8163-79F482306630@hindu.org> <6149298e-1005-b109-2a5e-83a0d8f7cb61@hyperactivesw.com> <160a00bb510.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <3CC4BD95-FEA2-464F-86E8-63D6AD91BCC2@hindu.org> Message-ID: <47a69835-95a7-742a-73bd-abb2ab9f0830@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/29/17 2:25 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > To what extent we can realistically fit this app onto a phone with only 1GB of RAM? I don't know. So it's a memory problem after all. Google is making/has made a slimmed-down version of Android specifically for India and other areas with minimal bandwidth and phone specs, so it's a recognized issue. You may just have to limit the user base to qualifying devices. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Dec 29 17:19:17 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 17:19:17 -0500 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table In-Reply-To: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> References: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <8D9C6A0D-A111-4A90-930D-6461C418E902@all-auctions.com> Hi Matthias, Are there going to be users on your system at the time of the update? Are you locking the record or records before your update, and then unlocking them? You should do a test with the repeat loop to see how long the process takes. If it is depriving your users of the database for too long you may want to think of a way which will impact their use the least. Perhaps picking a time of day when your system is getting the least amount of traffic would be best. Hope this helps. Rick > On Dec 29, 2017, at 3:53 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi, > > i need to update regularly about 2000 rows/records of a MySQL table with Livecode Server. > > What is better? > Executing the 2000 update commands in one take using revexecuteSQL > or should i execute one update command after each other within a repeat loop? > > What do you think? > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Dec 29 17:29:49 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:29:49 -0800 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <3CC4BD95-FEA2-464F-86E8-63D6AD91BCC2@hindu.org> References: <3CC4BD95-FEA2-464F-86E8-63D6AD91BCC2@hindu.org> Message-ID: <30c1a7b0-6f75-e091-db05-fafe70391c14@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > To what extent we can realistically fit this app onto a phone with > only 1GB of RAM? I don't know. "Only"? That's a lot of phones.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Dec 29 17:36:30 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:36:30 +0100 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table In-Reply-To: <8D9C6A0D-A111-4A90-930D-6461C418E902@all-auctions.com> References: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> <8D9C6A0D-A111-4A90-930D-6461C418E902@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <4693945C-9F25-4853-993F-B5EDEC780F75@m-r-d.de> Thanks Rick for sharing your thoughts. I am just updating only one field in each record and i am not locking the record. The complete update when doing one after one in a repeat loop does not take more than 1 second. So i think i will go that way. Thanks again. Regards, Matthias > Am 29.12.2017 um 23:19 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode >: > > Hi Matthias, > > Are there going to be users on your system at the time of the update? > Are you locking the record or records before your update, and then > unlocking them? > > You should do a test with the repeat loop to see how long the process takes. > If it is depriving your users of the database for too long you may want to > think of a way which will impact their use the least. Perhaps picking a > time of day when your system is getting the least amount of traffic > would be best. > > Hope this helps. > > Rick > >> On Dec 29, 2017, at 3:53 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> i need to update regularly about 2000 rows/records of a MySQL table with Livecode Server. >> >> What is better? >> Executing the 2000 update commands in one take using revexecuteSQL >> or should i execute one update command after each other within a repeat loop? >> >> What do you think? >> >> Regards, >> >> Matthias >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Dec 29 19:59:25 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 16:59:25 -0800 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table In-Reply-To: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> References: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Executing the 2000 update commands in one take using revexecuteSQL > or should i execute one update command after each other within a repeat loop? Unless something has changed, you can't submit multiple mySQL commands at once from LiveCode, whether you immediately execute them or not. If the server is not local, you may find 2000 consecutive latencies to be brutally long (as in minutes, not seconds) You can, however, with postgreSQL and SQLite. In fact, it's a couple of insertions done as a singe transaction with SQLite every time I open a client, and a similar one to the posts server when I create a new one. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Dec 29 20:05:45 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:05:45 -0700 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table In-Reply-To: References: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On mysql.. can't you prebuild your multi-command transaction in a variable (with a beginning and ending to the transaction) and then use revexecutesql with a single call for the one big transaction? On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 5:59 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Executing the 2000 update commands in one take using revexecuteSQL > > or should i execute one update command after each other within a repeat > loop? > > Unless something has changed, you can't submit multiple mySQL commands > at once from LiveCode, whether you immediately execute them or not. > If the server is not local, you may find 2000 consecutive latencies to > be brutally long (as in minutes, not seconds) > > You can, however, with postgreSQL and SQLite. In fact, it's a couple > of insertions done as a singe transaction with SQLite every time I > open a client, and a similar one to the posts server when I create a > new one. > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Dec 29 20:17:54 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 02:17:54 +0100 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table In-Reply-To: References: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <1A6FE7E7-F739-418C-A7EC-BA0A5AC6ABA0@m-r-d.de> Thanks to all. As i wrote already, i am updating now one row after the other using a repeat loop. MySQL is running on the same server as Livecode Server is. So it takes only one seconds or so to update all 2276 records. Matthias > Am 30.12.2017 um 02:05 schrieb Mike Bonner via use-livecode >: > > On mysql.. can't you prebuild your multi-command transaction in a variable > (with a beginning and ending to the transaction) and then use revexecutesql > with a single call for the one big transaction? > > > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 5:59 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode >> > wrote: >> >>> Executing the 2000 update commands in one take using revexecuteSQL >>> or should i execute one update command after each other within a repeat >> loop? >> >> Unless something has changed, you can't submit multiple mySQL commands >> at once from LiveCode, whether you immediately execute them or not. >> If the server is not local, you may find 2000 consecutive latencies to >> be brutally long (as in minutes, not seconds) >> >> You can, however, with postgreSQL and SQLite. In fact, it's a couple >> of insertions done as a singe transaction with SQLite every time I >> open a client, and a similar one to the posts server when I create a >> new one. >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >> (702) 508-8462 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe Tel +49 5741 310000 ?https://matthiasrebbe.eu ? From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Dec 29 21:29:32 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:29:32 -0800 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table In-Reply-To: References: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > On mysql.. can't you prebuild your multi-command transaction in a variable > (with a beginning and ending to the transaction) and then use revexecutesql > with a single call for the one big transaction? Not when I was trying a couple of years ago. I tried both with and without including the BEGIN/END, which gets added by LiveCode under some circumstances, and there's a thread in the archives from it (err, do we keep those? google my email, livecode, and mySQL to get a start on one of the parasitic sites). Apparently, the issue is (was?) livecode, and not mySQL. As the only reason I had to use mySQL was that my web host provided it, I switched to postgresql -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From brahma at hindu.org Fri Dec 29 21:59:25 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 02:59:25 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <30c1a7b0-6f75-e091-db05-fafe70391c14@fourthworld.com> References: <3CC4BD95-FEA2-464F-86E8-63D6AD91BCC2@hindu.org> <30c1a7b0-6f75-e091-db05-fafe70391c14@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I certainly did not mean to imply by "only" that pointed to the market share of phones with 1 GB ram. OT: I was just reading Quora about how US overwhelming Germany with sheer numbers of tanks and jets that had much lower specs than German made tanks/planes. But we won on our sheer industrial power to produce numbers. so that's happening in Asia? but it's intereseting to see in your graph that in India 2GB phones are approaching 1 GB phones..and other indicators for my target markey which are middle class youth primarily.. would put them in the 2-3GB phone market? but even this one is complaining about the app on Galaxy with 3 GB of RAM (Jacque he was not referring to his own phone but to others) FYI I mentioned this before? it's being driven by demonitization. every farmer and street seller needs a $20.00 smart phone just to seel his fish on the street. But that's not our audience. and the article you linked to puts the "blame" (if you will), on the OS? "While 2GB of RAM is enough for iOS to work smoothly, Android devices need more memory." Musings: So that make one wonder, how far should we expect LiveCode to optimize (and possibly compromise) it's stack, to work on Android? Versus pushing for better displays transitions -- see Scott Rossi's incredioble "looking forward" on LC Global? the LC engine is really need to going to grow, change scale to stay in the game, easy rounded corners everywhere,, i.e. engine features that support our drive for more and better content. We don't built utilities here, we build "culture" so I have to ask myself if we want to move forward creating our little "disney world on a phone" or if we need to rachet back to "simple caddy shack to hold a few clubs and golf balls." Frankly the latter is just not an option, our brains/production don't track like that at all. End Musings: back to ground: I would not even know where to start to understand what to what extent an app is overloading RAM on Android. How do we measure this stuff. At least on a linux web server I have TOP and easy I/O tools to tell us exactly what is happening. We need this for LC, ideally without our having to reinvent a monitoriing system. I suppose the new script profiler should help us? but I don't really know where to begin. At least, dealing with a lot internet connection is a "no brainer" but bigger questions leave us in the dark Data Grid 2 versus a field, vs a group with sub-groups with many child object, built dynamically on the fly from a mySQL dbase. Does it make more sense to cache the data as an LC array vs MySql Query? and how do you measure what is going on? What is the most efficient way to fetch 150 k Plain text and style it on the fly, for display. (H1 heads, lists, bold, space before and after? etc) in a field? I feeding everything to the support team on this round? so they are getting to see it all. Stay tuned? now back to building more content and studying out the script profiler?. On 12/29/17, 12:30 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode" wrote: > To what extent we can realistically fit this app onto a phone with > only 1GB of RAM? I don't know. "Only"? That's a lot of phones.... From brahma at hindu.org Fri Dec 29 22:37:59 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 03:37:59 +0000 Subject: Dissolve/Transitions Very Costly Message-ID: <8D755985-8FAE-4273-B3FF-60DC58109112@hindu.org> Appropo optimization thread, I'll dig in on specific issues The script profiler is showing this for a script that runs super fast until: 143 3 868 show image "gems-image" with visual effect dissolve very fast So this was pertty long but I suppose reasonable enough? then, I ran it again. 143 3 2526 show image "gems-image" with visual effect dissolve very fast Yikes! 2.5 seconds for dissolve very fast on a 120k image? given the new look and feel of apps where transitions are *everywhere* ? this takes waaay to long? is there any way to optimize this? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Dec 29 22:47:07 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:47:07 -0800 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > I would not even know where to start to understand what to what extent > an app is overloading RAM on Android. How do we measure this stuff. Settings -> Developer Options -> Running services That brings up a simple list of processes in memory, noting among other things the memory usage of each. It's more specific than the list in the non-dev option in Settings -> Memory -> Memory used by apps. If you need insanely detailed deep info, consider turning on the Power Menu Bug Reports option: https://tamingthedroid.com/power-menu-bug-reports There are also many third-party apps for getting process details, e.g.: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.p_soft.sysmon&hl=en -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Dec 29 22:52:19 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:52:19 -0800 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4c2a66ef-9c61-d47b-c9bf-30ca78eb90de@fourthworld.com> While looking for one of the URLs I included in my last post, I came across this: How we reduced our Android app?s memory footprint by 50% I have no idea if those strategies would make sense in LC's internals, or whether LC is already doing some of that sort of bitmap reuse. But an interesting read just the same. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Dec 29 23:07:47 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 20:07:47 -0800 Subject: Dissolve/Transitions Very Costly In-Reply-To: <8D755985-8FAE-4273-B3FF-60DC58109112@hindu.org> References: <8D755985-8FAE-4273-B3FF-60DC58109112@hindu.org> Message-ID: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Yikes! 2.5 seconds for dissolve very fast on a 120k image? > > given the new look and feel of apps where transitions are *everywhere* ? this takes waaay to long? > > is there any way to optimize this? Effect durations can be normalized and fine-tuned using the effectRate global property. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Dec 30 06:34:24 2017 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:34:24 +0100 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table In-Reply-To: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> References: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: The shell function can do this. I don't know if there could be a limit to the length of the shell command though. Working example: on mouseUp put shortfilepath("C:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.6\bin\mysql.exe") into myFilePath -- the following line contains 2 insert commands put "insert into testtable (name) values ('Anne'); insert into testtable (name) values ('Belinda')" into mySql put myFilePath && "-uUSERNAME -pPASSWORD test -e" && quote & mySql & quote into myQuery get shell(myQuery) end mouseUp Kind regards, Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com https://www.facebook.com/marksch Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 29-Dec-17 om 21:53 schreef Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode: > Hi, > > i need to update regularly about 2000 rows/records of a MySQL table with Livecode Server. > > What is better? > Executing the 2000 update commands in one take using revexecuteSQL > or should i execute one update command after each other within a repeat loop? > > What do you think? > > Regards, > > Matthias > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 30 13:07:34 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:07:34 -0600 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <4c2a66ef-9c61-d47b-c9bf-30ca78eb90de@fourthworld.com> References: <4c2a66ef-9c61-d47b-c9bf-30ca78eb90de@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <160a89b8688.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Worth reading just to find out about the 57 MB app memory limit. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On December 29, 2017 9:54:34 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > While looking for one of the URLs I included in my last post, I came > across this: > > How we reduced our Android app?s memory footprint by 50% > > > I have no idea if those strategies would make sense in LC's internals, > or whether LC is already doing some of that sort of bitmap reuse. But > an interesting read just the same. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Dec 30 15:33:10 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 15:33:10 -0500 Subject: reset waitdepth when idle Message-ID: Is there a way to reset the waitDepth when nothing is happening? I am running a CRON-type setup. I fire events on a schedule, provided that the waitDepth <=1. Even when LC is idle and nothing is actually waiting, SOMETIMES the waitDepth can be >1, and seeing that, my CRON event never fires the next job. This seems to happen because of some the mergEXT externals are designed to be asynchronous, allowing you to issue multiple commands, then handle the events that fire when the server responds. Sometimes that process does not go according to plan, but for some reason the waitDepth stays at 2 (for instance), even though we are idle. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 30 15:44:17 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 20:44:17 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <4c2a66ef-9c61-d47b-c9bf-30ca78eb90de@fourthworld.com> References: <4c2a66ef-9c61-d47b-c9bf-30ca78eb90de@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <91D06938-C5AC-4C8D-9BD4-F0DAC142BCB6@hindu.org> This looks very useful . I think we need to wait until HQ weighs in on my bug report. Regardless of the fact that it works on iOS and Oreo, one has to wonder how on earth we can close a stack which is set to destroy on close, turn acceleratedRendering to false (assume previously cached controls are cleared); open a new stack and *still* see the old stack behind the new, one, as if they two are still fighting for the pixel map?. even if the old one "loses" on iOS and Oreo?and the new stack "wins" the display.. .the old one could still be in the heap. So if this indicates a failure at garbage collection (my very un-informed guess) the app will run out of RAM very fast. So however hard we work to optimize any script?it will get us nothing, 5 minutes into using the app, moving from stack to stack, crash is imminent. That said the new script profiler in 9 is awesome (when it runs?often I start it, stop it and it is empty?) e.g. I found a repeat loop that keeps setting the left of a large parent group being build up from copying child groups run time?everytime a child group is added (100 times) and this one task of setting the left of group "item-list" to 0 on every loop, even with lockscreen on, was taking 80% of the time needed to do the job. it was this developer's (not me) attempt to overcome the challenge issue of the coords/ ect of the group constantly being lost despite use of on layoutGroup pNum -- general list group stuff set the lockupdates of group "item list" to true set the lockupdates of me to true the coords still keep getting lost?and require resetting the parent group so that 0,0, us actually "known" to the subgroup being appended as a "row" at the bottom. Me thinks we are working too hard at this one? and I'm noodling a refactor? it will be interesting if DataGrid2 represents a "leap" forward for this kind of graphically complex list group. I have stayed away from it as more complex than needed? OTOH if DataGrid2 will be more performant, then we should use it. Meanwhile, other operations, like fetch data from the database, setting props on the next-copied subgroup etc. which I thought (wrongly) would be costly were all profiling in at 1 millisecond.. So this new tool is going to be really helpful ? I just have to figure out why it so often appear blank after running scripts. Richard Gaskin wrote: While looking for one of the URLs I included in my last post, I came across this: How we reduced our Android app?s memory footprint by 50% I have no idea if those strategies would make sense in LC's internals, or whether LC is already doing some of that sort of bitmap reuse. But an interesting read just the same. From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 30 17:06:56 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 22:06:56 +0000 Subject: Dissolve/Transitions Very Costly In-Reply-To: References: <8D755985-8FAE-4273-B3FF-60DC58109112@hindu.org> Message-ID: So: if the effectRate defaults to 2000 (which is what I'm seeing here on desktop) and you have ------ Show image "grand-canyon" with visual effect dissolve very fast ------- # theoretically 1/5 of 2000 = 400 milliseconds why is the script profiler saying this line takes 4765 milliseconds top execute? The dictionary has two methods: if you look up "show" it appears you should be able to perform this "directly" But, under the visual effect command the suggested method is to lock screen, make the change then unlock the screen with visual effect. And we get different results, various conditions where the effect just does not happen anyway?no fadein as expected? there is a delay? screen is "stuck" and suddenly the image changes. hopefully this all improves very soon as CSS Animation which is fast and smooth? now dominates UI everywhere, even for small inconsequential UX ops? designers are expect all kinds of "oozing" warp,slide,fade away etc. Frankly I'm sure users care that much, and if you have a very strong content component, it's a lot more compelling than having your address book "zip up" when you close it. And what I'm here is that the most important thing is stability and performance. So, I may just remove all these dissolves. Richard wrote: Effect durations can be normalized and fine-tuned using the effectRate global property. From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 30 17:18:18 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 22:18:18 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <160a89b8688.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4c2a66ef-9c61-d47b-c9bf-30ca78eb90de@fourthworld.com> <160a89b8688.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <684D1CA4-4827-4407-B4F7-97F80D75A0A0@hindu.org> Reading this in depth. yes, reallocation of bit map space is beyond the developer's realm? I spotted this too? RGB 565? Anyone using this and getting smaller files sizes ver current jpgs? I'm not seeing this as an option in Photoshop on Mac. How we reduced our Android app?s memory footprint by 50% From tore.nilsen at me.com Sat Dec 30 18:41:35 2017 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 00:41:35 +0100 Subject: Dissolve/Transitions Very Costly In-Reply-To: References: <8D755985-8FAE-4273-B3FF-60DC58109112@hindu.org> Message-ID: It may also help to lock the screen for visual effect within a given rectangle, thereby reducing the number of pixels that need to be updated. If the images are of equal dimensions and with the same loc, you can refer to the rect of one of them, otherwise you can have an invisible graphic as reference or just the local screen coordinates where you would like the effect to take place, like this: lock screen for visual effect in rect(rect of image ?test1?) ? or the direct coordinates as param (200,200,500,400) hide image ?test1? show image ?test2? unlock screen with visual effect dissolve very fast Regards Tore Nilsen > 30. des. 2017 kl. 23:06 skrev Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode : > > So: if the effectRate defaults to 2000 (which is what I'm seeing here on desktop) and you have > ------ > Show image "grand-canyon" with visual effect dissolve very fast > ------- > # theoretically 1/5 of 2000 = 400 milliseconds > > why is the script profiler saying this line takes 4765 milliseconds top execute? > > The dictionary has two methods: if you look up "show" it appears you should be able to perform this "directly" > > But, under the visual effect command the suggested method is to lock screen, make the change then unlock the screen with visual effect. And we get different results, various conditions where the effect just does not happen anyway?no fadein as expected? there is a delay? screen is "stuck" and suddenly the image changes. > > hopefully this all improves very soon as CSS Animation which is fast and smooth? now dominates UI everywhere, even for small inconsequential UX ops? designers are expect all kinds of "oozing" warp,slide,fade away etc. > > Frankly I'm sure users care that much, and if you have a very strong content component, it's a lot more compelling than having your address book "zip up" when you close it. And what I'm here is that the most important thing is stability and performance. So, I may just remove all these dissolves. > > > Richard wrote: > > Effect durations can be normalized and fine-tuned using the effectRate > global property. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 30 20:18:19 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 19:18:19 -0600 Subject: Dissolve/Transitions Very Costly In-Reply-To: References: <8D755985-8FAE-4273-B3FF-60DC58109112@hindu.org> Message-ID: <7ca2ef11-c908-d7fa-4013-eda4226f8de0@hyperactivesw.com> On 12/30/17 4:06 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > # theoretically 1/5 of 2000 = 400 milliseconds > > why is the script profiler saying this line takes 4765 milliseconds top execute? If it's like the MC profiler, these are relative times. They aren't meant to tell you exactly how long an operation takes, just how it compares to others. The profiler itself slows down execution. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Dec 30 20:22:05 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 19:22:05 -0600 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <91D06938-C5AC-4C8D-9BD4-F0DAC142BCB6@hindu.org> References: <4c2a66ef-9c61-d47b-c9bf-30ca78eb90de@fourthworld.com> <91D06938-C5AC-4C8D-9BD4-F0DAC142BCB6@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 12/30/17 2:44 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > I think we need to wait until HQ weighs in on my bug report. Regardless of the fact that it works on iOS and Oreo, one has to wonder how on earth we can close a stack which is set to destroy on close, turn acceleratedRendering to false (assume previously cached controls are cleared); open a new stack and*still* see the old stack behind the new, one, as if they two are still fighting for the pixel map?. even if the old one "loses" on iOS and Oreo?and the new stack "wins" the display.. .the old one could still be in the heap. This could be a redraw issue rather than an open stack, but see what HQ says. I know that pixels outside the card area aren't redrawn on mobile, this could be related. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Sat Dec 30 21:51:37 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 02:51:37 +0000 Subject: LC Server - MySQL - update about 2000 rows/records of a table In-Reply-To: References: <9E74CAB4-4AA0-4E18-A493-D548C4383D81@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <27C11AAC-85A2-4DE0-8884-7D631E90A273@hindu.org> Ditto what Mike said: " On mysql.. can't you prebuild your multi-command transaction in a variable" I periodically do this kind of thing. assuming the transaction is exactly the same? one way is to build a single SQL query from your data. Assume you need something like this, getting and SQL query into a string, from raw data with LC's text processing tools is easy: INSERT INTO `mytable` (item,quantity,amount) VALUES ('Oranges',3,5.00) ('Apples',10,6.00) #etc.. #(no problem doing 2000 of these) ; and then do the insert as a single query/transaction and let the dBase handle it. BR On 12/29/17, 3:05 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Bonner via use-livecode" wrote: (with a beginning and ending to the transaction) and then use revexecutesql with a single call for the one big transaction? From niconiko at gmail.com Sun Dec 31 03:21:16 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 17:21:16 +0900 Subject: delete the customproperty (of a card) Message-ID: Very simple question, I guess. But from the documentation I've only figured out : set the customKeys["myCP"] of this card to empty How do I completely delete the customProp myCP itself? Bettery yet, how could I delete at once all customProps, even if I don't know their names?! Thanks. (And "akemashite omedeto!") -- Nicolas Cueto From ilola.antti at gmail.com Sun Dec 31 08:19:17 2017 From: ilola.antti at gmail.com (Antti Ilola) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 15:19:17 +0200 Subject: DataGrid 2 Message-ID: It there anywhere an example how to use datagrid 2. I tried, but somehow I didn't mange to get in it. Antti From mark at livecode.com Sun Dec 31 08:28:00 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 14:28:00 +0100 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> Message-ID: <3171583d171c9f1b2668e4ba1a5daa7e@livecode.com> On 2017-12-27 06:04, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Any thoughts in this area? In terms of images / screen resolution etc... The first thing to ensure is that *all* your images objects use the filename property rather than embedding the image data in the stackfile via the 'text' property. One exception: if you are constructing images on the fly temporarily (i.e. for a single card) then the 'text' property is still the best choice. The size of the image files on disk is not really relevant - what matters is the amount of memory they use to render, which is 4 bytes per pixel. (You can have a 1Kb PNG which has a decompressed size which would require many gigabytes decompressed, for example). Filename referenced images are decompressed and cached on use - the size of the cache is determined by the 'imageCacheLimit' global property, and its current usage is the 'imageCacheUsage' property - both are in bytes. If your image cache is too small, then there will be a 'bump' whenever an image needs to be decompressed - you can ensure images are in the cache (assuming the cache is large enough) by using the 'prepare image' command. The engine understands @ suffixes to image filenames (before the extension!), which allow you to provide different sizes of images depending on the device pixel resolution of the device. For example, if you have lots of images which have been prepared for retina devices, then they will be being scaled down on lower resolution devices for no real gain, and will be taking more memory than need be on such devices - take a look at the (image) filename property in the dictionary which explains how that works. By default the engine maps 1 pixel in LiveCode space to 1 logical pixel in device space. A (original!) retina device will have 2 device pixels to 1 logical pixel, whereas a non-retina device will have 1 device pixel to 1 logical pixel. For retina devices you generally want images of 2x the horz and vert size compared to non-retina to ensure maximum display fidelity. So one thing to check is that all your images are not 'oversized' - i.e. they are the exact size needed to fit the pixel rect of the objects using them in LiveCode. Then provide @2x ones for higher resolution devices. Assuming your images are currently 'oversized' to ensure good display on high-res devices, this will save you 75% of the in-memory footprint when running on a lower-res device (i.e. not retina). In terms of accelerated rendering... The cache of 'tiles' used in acceleratedRendering is per-stack, and is reset on every card change. The cache is only 'in-memory' when the stack is opened. On mobile it is possible for more than one stack to be opened, they stack from most recently opened to least recently opened. So, in general, it is probably better to explicitly close stacks you are no longer using. Using the 'go in window' form of the go command (IIRC) does this for you - i.e. closes the old and opens the new, and is probably the most efficient means to move between stacks on mobile. The amount of memory which is used by acceleratedRendering (on any one stack) is always the compositorCacheLimit of the stack. If the stack requires more tiles to render than the cache-limit allows, acceleratedRendering will not be used, and the engine will fall back to normal rasterization. On mobile, if you are using OpenGL modes of acceleratedRendering, then (IIRC) the cache is actually the GPU RAM which is used, and not 'normal' RAM (if there is a difference these days with more flexible memory busses!). However, there is an overhead in generating the tiles - but that is only transient and is never more than the pixel size of the stack at device resolution (e.g. for a 800*600 stack non-retina - it would require a maximum temporary buffer of 800*600*4 bytes). In terms of memory, then the above two things are pretty much the largest 'memory hog' of any application - unless you are loading large amounts of data into memory (which I don't think you would be in the case of your app - we're talking more like doing analysis of 100,000s of points of data) then any memory issues will likely be due to graphics. Hope this helps! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Dec 31 11:02:18 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 17:02:18 +0100 Subject: delete the customproperty (of a card) Message-ID: <515667E1-5ECB-4DC4-B457-EF5ECB9799D1@hyperhh.de> Dictionary > customKeys From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Dec 31 11:59:26 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 18:59:26 +0200 Subject: delete the customproperty (of a card) In-Reply-To: <515667E1-5ECB-4DC4-B457-EF5ECB9799D1@hyperhh.de> References: <515667E1-5ECB-4DC4-B457-EF5ECB9799D1@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: If you know the name of the customProp . . . one can EMPTY the customProp very easily indeed: set the "XYZ" of card id 1002 to empty that does, howeve, mean that the prop "XYZ" is still 'there': I'm not sure whether that is important. In the DICTIONARY is states this: "You can delete an object's custom property sets by setting the object's customPropertySets to empty." So I wonder why this: set the customPropertySets of card id 1002 to empty divn't work? At this point I would generally start sending 'slightly offensive' remarks to Mark & Kevin, but for a variety of reasons just the now I'll content mysen by sending them "Hae a gae guid Hogmanay, chiels!" Yours aye, Richmond, an Ah'll stick the knife intil ye in the new towmond ;-) On 31/12/2017 6:02 pm, hh via use-livecode wrote: > Dictionary > customKeys > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Dec 31 12:03:22 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 19:03:22 +0200 Subject: delete the customproperty (of a card) In-Reply-To: References: <515667E1-5ECB-4DC4-B457-EF5ECB9799D1@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <70ef7d64-960c-97b7-1acc-c97902936b0f@gmail.com> Fegs! delete the customKeys of card id 1002 warked :-* Richmond. On 31/12/2017 6:59 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > If you know the name of the customProp . . . > > one can EMPTY the customProp very easily indeed: > > set the "XYZ" of card id 1002 to empty > > that does, howeve, mean that the prop "XYZ" is still 'there': > I'm not sure whether that is important. > > In the DICTIONARY is states this: > > "You can delete an object's custom property sets by setting the > object's customPropertySets to empty." > > So I wonder why this: > > set the customPropertySets of card id 1002 to empty > > divn't work? > > At this point I would generally start sending 'slightly offensive' > remarks to Mark & Kevin, > but for a variety of reasons just the now I'll content mysen by > sending them > > "Hae a gae guid Hogmanay, chiels!" > > Yours aye, Richmond, > an Ah'll stick the knife intil ye in the new towmond ;-) > > > > > On 31/12/2017 6:02 pm, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> Dictionary > customKeys >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bogdanoff at me.com Sun Dec 31 16:11:09 2017 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 13:11:09 -0800 Subject: lineHeight different Mac vs. Windows Message-ID: <0D959DEE-6D90-402C-951C-483FA8AADDAE@me.com> Hi, I thought I would bring this to the attention of the LiveCode team. I filed a bug on 2016-05-22 Bug 17707 - Line height different Mac vs. Windows in fields with fixedLineHeight set to false EXPECTED RESULT: I would have expected to see the line height of a field with fixedLineHeight set to false to be the same on Windows as Mac OS X OBSERVED RESULT: Windows text is rendered with the line height slightly larger. Panos : I confirm this difference between the two platforms, but I am not sure if this is something we can fix. I am setting this to EXPERT_REVIEW for further investigation. Is this not a fixable thing, and should I just try other solutions? Overview of my situation: My cross-platform music history eBook does not have text that auto flows from page to page for various reasons (searching, linking to specific pages). Windows text in Georgia renders slightly wider in Windows compared to MacOS. lineHeight when not fixed (which I must have since I use in-line images) is decidedly greater, so text sometimes flows off the bottom of the field. Changing the font size is too extreme a change and doesn?t fix widows. I?m trying to conceive of a method of somehow creating page metadata that reformats the Windows text?possibly adjusting field width, arbitrary carriage returns to move text, changing the text size of space characters, etc., all in an attempt to make the Windows version text display more of less the same as Mac. But the problem of line height difference is otherwise unfixable by me. Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractive From warren at warrensweb.us Sun Dec 31 17:36:43 2017 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:36:43 -0600 Subject: lineHeight different Mac vs. Windows In-Reply-To: <0D959DEE-6D90-402C-951C-483FA8AADDAE@me.com> References: <0D959DEE-6D90-402C-951C-483FA8AADDAE@me.com> Message-ID: <612e0810-8e08-ecbe-206b-93b5ee364d9e@warrensweb.us> On 12/31/2017 03:11 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > text sometimes flows off the bottom of the field. Changing the font size is too extreme a change and doesn?t fix widows. > > I?m trying to conceive of a method of somehow creating page metadata that reformats the Windows text?possibly adjusting field width, arbitrary carriage returns to move text, changing the text size of space characters, etc., all in an attempt to make the Windows version text display more of less the same as Mac. But the problem of line height difference is otherwise unfixable by me. Linux users also often face the problem where LC developers share stacks where multi-line text wraps below the bottom of fields with fixed height. Can you set the field height to the formattedHeight and auto-show scrollbars as necessary when you load the field's contents? That ordinarily solves the problem. I would protest efforts to mess with user font selection, be it fontface or size and suggest you try to make it adaptive. Fontface and size can be elements the user has good reasons to set for himself. Warren From warren at warrensweb.us Sun Dec 31 17:44:35 2017 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:44:35 -0600 Subject: lineHeight different Mac vs. Windows In-Reply-To: <612e0810-8e08-ecbe-206b-93b5ee364d9e@warrensweb.us> References: <0D959DEE-6D90-402C-951C-483FA8AADDAE@me.com> <612e0810-8e08-ecbe-206b-93b5ee364d9e@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: On 12/31/2017 04:36 PM, Warren Samples via use-livecode wrote: > and auto-show scrollbars this should say "or" auto-show scrollbars From niconiko at gmail.com Sun Dec 31 20:14:16 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2018 10:14:16 +0900 Subject: delete the customproperty (of a card) In-Reply-To: <70ef7d64-960c-97b7-1acc-c97902936b0f@gmail.com> References: <515667E1-5ECB-4DC4-B457-EF5ECB9799D1@hyperhh.de> <70ef7d64-960c-97b7-1acc-c97902936b0f@gmail.com> Message-ID: The answer for what I was after: On 1 January 2018 at 02:03, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Fegs! > > delete the customKeys of card id 1002 > > warked :-* > > Richmond. > > > > On 31/12/2017 6:59 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > >> If you know the name of the customProp . . . >> >> one can EMPTY the customProp very easily indeed: >> >> set the "XYZ" of card id 1002 to empty >> >> that does, howeve, mean that the prop "XYZ" is still 'there': >> I'm not sure whether that is important. >> >> In the DICTIONARY is states this: >> >> "You can delete an object's custom property sets by setting the object's >> customPropertySets to empty." >> >> So I wonder why this: >> >> set the customPropertySets of card id 1002 to empty >> >> divn't work? >> >> At this point I would generally start sending 'slightly offensive' >> remarks to Mark & Kevin, >> but for a variety of reasons just the now I'll content mysen by sending >> them >> >> "Hae a gae guid Hogmanay, chiels!" >> >> Yours aye, Richmond, >> an Ah'll stick the knife intil ye in the new towmond ;-) >> >> >> >> >> On 31/12/2017 6:02 pm, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Dictionary > customKeys >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From niconiko at gmail.com Sun Dec 31 20:15:44 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2018 10:15:44 +0900 Subject: delete the customproperty (of a card) In-Reply-To: References: <515667E1-5ECB-4DC4-B457-EF5ECB9799D1@hyperhh.de> <70ef7d64-960c-97b7-1acc-c97902936b0f@gmail.com> Message-ID: The answer for what I was after: set the customPropertySets of this card to empty Thanks all. Particularly, Glen Bojsza for the offlist sample stack and explanatory video. -- N. Cueto On 1 January 2018 at 10:14, Nicolas Cueto wrote: > The answer for what I was after: > > > On 1 January 2018 at 02:03, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Fegs! >> >> delete the customKeys of card id 1002 >> >> warked :-* >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> >> On 31/12/2017 6:59 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote: >> >>> If you know the name of the customProp . . . >>> >>> one can EMPTY the customProp very easily indeed: >>> >>> set the "XYZ" of card id 1002 to empty >>> >>> that does, howeve, mean that the prop "XYZ" is still 'there': >>> I'm not sure whether that is important. >>> >>> In the DICTIONARY is states this: >>> >>> "You can delete an object's custom property sets by setting the object's >>> customPropertySets to empty." >>> >>> So I wonder why this: >>> >>> set the customPropertySets of card id 1002 to empty >>> >>> divn't work? >>> >>> At this point I would generally start sending 'slightly offensive' >>> remarks to Mark & Kevin, >>> but for a variety of reasons just the now I'll content mysen by sending >>> them >>> >>> "Hae a gae guid Hogmanay, chiels!" >>> >>> Yours aye, Richmond, >>> an Ah'll stick the knife intil ye in the new towmond ;-) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 31/12/2017 6:02 pm, hh via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> Dictionary > customKeys >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From niconiko at gmail.com Sun Dec 31 20:31:49 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2018 10:31:49 +0900 Subject: screenloc not actually centered after changing scalefactor (was Screen Resolution for Desktop Apps) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > You may have to do some calculations based on the scalefactor, in order to adjust the visual location. Thanks Jacqueline, but still confused. To do "some calculations", I thought of comparing the loc to the scalefactor. So ran the standalone on three devices, but saw no consistent corelation between the differing locs and the scalefactor. So, still no clue what to use for these calculations... On a perhaps related topic. Every time I start LC on that devpt PC (Windows), the LC menu bar opens mostly hidden offscreen. So I have to drag it left to be fully onscreen. So, I guess if LC itself can't get it right, what hope is there for moi. ?Feliz a?o nuevo! ?-- Nicolas Cueto? From brahma at hindu.org Sun Dec 31 22:47:20 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2018 03:47:20 +0000 Subject: Optimizing for small Android devices In-Reply-To: <3171583d171c9f1b2668e4ba1a5daa7e@livecode.com> References: <8ACC9DBA-2C11-4DF0-8181-A790B0225306@hindu.org> <3171583d171c9f1b2668e4ba1a5daa7e@livecode.com> Message-ID: Mark: Wow, yes, it does help! I hope you had a great Christimas and are refreshed ready to face all of us again (smile) Your entire email should be posted to some knowledge base somewhere! As for speed optimization: ----- Alternate images I will make 1 X images right away for my home "portal" screens heros which are now 2 X and rename the current ones to Looks like that should be hero at medium.jpg # exact size of the image object as defined in points/pixel in LC. hero at extra-high # for the 2X version Prepare (command): yes this could help in a number of instances, I will try it. ---------- Further questions ? you are right, we are not doing a lot of intensive data processing. My quick run with script profiler showed that some operations I thought we hurting the app were in fact taking a trivial amount of time. which means we can focus on the graphics, clearly the "problem." . I scoured the dictionary, but could not find any method determine amt device RAM, which I suppose is mute since the user could open as many apps as he likes and push the device to the wall, leaving little for LC? and there is nothing we can do about that. RE: image cache? This is new info to me? Very unlikely we would exceed the default 64 MG for mobile. But that default makes one wonder. Because we are told that the max RAM allotted to an app on Android is 57MB?so if the total MB of images used on a card < 64? and we navigate to another stack or card in the same stack? does the cache retain images from the previous card, stack? If so then eventually the cached images will overtake the available RAM on the device if we leave it at the default. is that correct? If so, then it means we *should* be doing some calculations and lowering the cache limit for Android. which again is "new info?." Also what if you are heading into a module/stack which is graphic intensive ? Like our word puzzle in the app and other possible "mini games in a stack" ? if all previous images are cached, would it make sense to deliberately flush the cache before we start creating our puzzle (takes snap shots of fields, saves these as images and then distributes them as "tiles" across the card? ) if so, how does one do that? I don't see a flush cache command? RE: Multiple Instances of same graphic/image on Card? OK we are generating "lists" using a Parent Group with subgroups as "rows" (like DataGrid) where these Rows" contain image? in some case we are using a SVG Widget to show a few icons in the row.. these are attached to a template group on card 2? replicated over and over again down the screen dynamically on cd 1? There may be contexts where the repeated grc is a) a button with file on disk assigned as icon b) or just an image referenced by the template group that is on disk. OK so now the card has 100 rows? with multiple instances of the exact same: SVG icon (as widget the same one icon) OR multiple button(s) with the same img file as icon OR a small image which has multiple instances on the card but each references the same, one only file on disk. I presume this question applies to the DataGrid as well. (which I have yet to use?) I think the question is obvious: are all these little visual reps of a single graphic a) occupying only the value of (1 X (their un compressed size) in RAM or does the RAM now hold ( N (number of appearances on the card) X (their uncompressed size) as a cumulative total in RAM? RE: images streamed to the app from a server in advance with "Load" ? ?. are these cached automatically or should we load and prepare each one after it arrives? RE: acceleratedRendering, Navigation across stacks and Redraw issues? please see http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20810 which is rather urgent as we went live on Google Play and I need an update that fixes this asap. FWIW here is the entire handler that does almost all the work of navigation across many modules(stacks) (and many more to come) could you re-write this for us to what you would consider the optimal SOP/ best practice, using Go in window? where AcceleratedRending is a) one in the stack we are closing b) needs to be turned on in the stack we are opening? I could try myself, but frankly, I would rather you give us the "bottom line" method here if you would not mind as I'm getting a bit tired of wrestling with this on Android (over a year now!) impossible to debug when script run fine an d is works on iOS and desktop? command portal_GoStack cardOrStackObject put the short name of this stack into oStackName put "Siva-Siva-App,Journal,view_SivaSivaBrowser" into tNoGoBackStacks if (sLastStack="Journal") AND (cardOrStackObject <> "Journal") then # it means we are launching activity and we are not actually going # to the view the journal, in which case we have to be sure it closes put "Journal" into oStackName end if if (not (oStackName is among the items of tNoGoBackStacks) ) then # save where we are coming; for the go back buttons: portal_SetCurrentStack oStackName end if if oStackName <> empty then # this is not the first run boot of portal deleteAllMobileControls # will destroy all except audioPlayer -- audio keeps play as the user peruses? # try to flush cache, clear buffer? Turn off ACR on the stack before we close it set the accelereratedRendering of the topstack to false end if go cardOrStackObject # cardOrStackObject -- a string which is either the short name of stack # or a card reference : gems | card 3 of "gems wait 100 milliseconds with messages # serious issues on Android if we don't use this close stack oStackName wait 100 milliseconds with messages # also needed before turning on ACR #BR: 2017-12-24 for the journal we don't turn on ACR until some open card ops are done. # as we don?t need it for the Browser Widget (as far as I know) # Other stacks have their ACR turn on here and possibly also # by the developer in the given module/stack as well? # is there a hit if we set ACR to true twice? My understanding is no.. put "journal,view_SivaSivaBrower" into tDoNotAccelerate if not (the short name of the topstack is among the items of tDoNotAccelerate) then set the acceleratedRendering of the topstack to true end if # new stack is now open, with ACR true since we are "scrolling everywhere" # but we have redraw issues on Android? see screen shots in the bug report? # Old stack still appears on screen? with "parts" of the pixel map occupied by the newly opened stack. end portal_GoStack Perhaps is it is as simple as this: with no waiting. replace this: go cardOrStackObject wait 100 milliseconds with messages # serious issues on Android if we don't use this close stack oStackName wait 100 milliseconds with messages # also needed before turning on ACR with go to cardOrStackObject in window. I'll try it, but still look for your insights. BR