From colinholgate at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 00:01:27 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 00:01:27 -0500
Subject: The Future of LiveCode in Education
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d5201f.7340c54.2377@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <mailman.2629.1456776812.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<BA793FE8-1172-4915-994A-43C7095D6ABE@siphonophore.com>
	<56D51563.7030109@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d5201f.7340c54.2377@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <74C4D043-5077-4EEE-A7BB-A63504EB95EE@gmail.com>

I?m trying to figure out which bit of information you mistyped. 1983 would be fairly late for getting an Apple II, but 1983 was before the Mac was released, and the Mac II didn?t come out until early 1987 I think.

Your remembered date is also four years before HyperCard was released. It could be that you meant 1993, and it was one of the last Macintosh LC II machines that you got. That would certainly have come with HyperCard.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_lc/specs/mac_lc_ii.html


> On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:52 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> I think it was circa 1983, I was in San Franscisco...  our spiritual master, Gurudeva, called from Hawaii saying "Your Apple II is coming any day. You need to sign up for some classes right away... this it the future."
> 
> When it came... I think the 3rd thing I did after booting up was start Hypercard  and made a button
> 
> on mouseup
>    beep 3 times
> end mouse
> 
> That was it! I created my first primitive PIM (TO DO list thingy) the next week and never looked back!
> 
> Time passes (Supercard...Richard Gaskin's pointing the way... Metacard, need for URL stuff, windows standalone for volunteers on PC's)  later, the idea of paying for the Indy was a "no brainer" and we've bought into every advance payment  plan pitch Kevin has proferred since 1997 or so when Scott Raney turned it over...
> 
> But it all started with the first button on software pre-loaded with the machine.
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> On February 29, 2016 at 6:07:12 PM, J. Landman Gay (jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>) wrote:
> 
> I don't suppose you still have any contacts over at Apple, do you? I
> would love to see LC ship with Macs.



From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 00:21:32 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:21:32 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456806576262-4701702.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <56D49975.3090307@fourthworld.com> <56D49FF0.9020104@gmail.com>
	<9DF92797-9618-4304-A231-898B4AF273B9@earthednet.org>
	<1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CA+S82DpTpFN46Wnk0yUoAPjVq9wvcY5H0QQMTn=96i8WosdEEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1456806576262-4701702.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <A510CB04-421F-4F13-AC68-542DFC0B3832@appisle.net>

Robert you may like to take the following snipped quote from Mark Waddingham into consideration in your analysis of how GPL applies to stackFiles:

I am not a lawyer, but it seems wise to at least provide some guidance in this case. Ultimately, it can only be guidance as we did not write the GPL and we do not define copyright law. We can just use our best judgement, our experience, our understanding of the GPL, and look to other use-cases of the GPL which are in existence in the same sphere as us.
It is our considered opinion and after much discussion over quite a long time that the following statement is definitely true:
If Wordpress and Drupal based on current advice from the FSF (who can be considered legal experts in this field - if somewhat biased) believe that their 'plugins' are derivative works of their systems then under the same considerations 'stackfiles' are derivative works of LiveCode.
Now, we firmly believe that the FSF are correct. Not only do we think it is a reasonable interpretation of derivative work, but it is indeed part of the very spirit of the GPL itself. Therefore:
If you use LiveCode Community to create or modify a stackfile to which you hold copyright and then choose to distribute it, then you must distribute it under the terms of the GPLv3. You cannot choose to license it under any other license whether it be more or less permissive than the GPLv3 (on whatever axis you wish to take).

My reading of this is that any content embedded in a stackFile should be licensed under the GPL. I could be wrong as I?m also not a lawyer! I would have thought that the spirit of the license that it applies to everything the application requires to function.

To be honest I?m unclear if there are grey areas about loading content at runtime from external files. It may be only OK to license differently under certain conditions like publicly documented file format reader/editors???? I don?t know about that but it would have seemed to be an easy workaround for Wordpress themes if it were possible to license the php part GPL and the images and CSS etc under some proprietary license. Like I said though, I?m not a lawyer!

Cheers

Monte
> On 1 Mar 2016, at 3:29 PM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:
> 
> -- YES : with the Open Source Stack, you can sell staks AND forbid anyother
> third party to re-sell that stack if it includes content you wish to keep an
> eye upon. The GPL license only applies to CODE, not to the STACK as a whole.



From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar  1 00:23:36 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 05:23:36 +0000
Subject: The Future of LiveCode in Education
In-Reply-To: <74C4D043-5077-4EEE-A7BB-A63504EB95EE@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2629.1456776812.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<BA793FE8-1172-4915-994A-43C7095D6ABE@siphonophore.com>
	<56D51563.7030109@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d5201f.7340c54.2377@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<74C4D043-5077-4EEE-A7BB-A63504EB95EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56d52757.57c5fab6.2377@Brahmanathaswami.local>

It's been a long time... and to be sure my memory is probably way off...

still:

But we have this from 1986 and I thought (I certainly could be wrong) I was already coding in Hypercard for some time ( a year or so I think at least) before this:

http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/media/art/photography/mac-connection-1986-winner/mac-connection-1986-winner.jpg

Because I'm sure I was banging out code on a box that did not look like this Mac Plus, in 1984-5...

FYI we were the first ever machine-networked desktop publishing operation on the planet (or so we were told...it could have been Apple Hype)


On February 29, 2016 at 7:01:40 PM, Colin Holgate (colinholgate at gmail.com<mailto:colinholgate at gmail.com>) wrote:

I?m trying to figure out which bit of information you mistyped. 1983 would be fairly late for getting an Apple II, but 1983 was before the Mac was released, and the Mac II didn?t come out until early 1987 I think.

Your remembered date is also four years before HyperCard was released. It could be that you meant 1993, and it was one of the last Macintosh LC II machines that you got. That would certainly have come with HyperCard.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_lc/specs/mac_lc_ii.html

From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 01:05:51 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 22:05:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi all,

I have read most of this message thread,
so please pardon me if someone has
proposed this before:

Why not publish your Apps for iOS
using a Publisher Partner?

Maybe an iOS Publisher Partner 
selected among our very own 
LiveCode fellow developers.

if not:
https://www.quora.com/I-have-an-awesome-iOS-game-which-game-publisher-should-I-work-with
https://sensortower.com/blog/the-top-ios-app-publisher-rankings

What advantages and problems
do you foresee with this?

Thanks in advance

Al



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701706.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Tue Mar  1 01:42:00 2016
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 22:42:00 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfHK3TH2ax2HifERpPXXW_CLbQjTC4LGwDnzYXzCLB1ZUcg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Why not publish your Apps for iOS
> using a Publisher Partner?
>
> Maybe an iOS Publisher Partner
> selected among our very own
> LiveCode fellow developers.
>

I don't think that's allowed in the ELUA

Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


From Ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Tue Mar  1 01:44:34 2016
From: Ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic Thebault)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 07:44:34 +0100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <20160301074434920489.205bb137@laposte.net>

On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 22:05:51 -0800 (PST), Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have read most of this message thread,
> so please pardon me if someone has
> proposed this before:
> 
> Why not publish your Apps for iOS
> using a Publisher Partner?
> 
> Maybe an iOS Publisher Partner 
> selected among our very own 
> LiveCode fellow developers.


+1

And it is already possible to put your stack and resources files on the 
web to let anybody compile the app with their proper version of 
Livecode Community and put it on their iOS device with Xcode.

PS : it could be great to add an functionality to the standalone 
settings of the community version : produce automatically the "source 
code files" and GPL agreement when the standalone is created.



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 02:54:45 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 08:54:45 +0100
Subject: OS X - how to write to a file associated as a Unix executable
In-Reply-To: <CACW8NbAVB45YVoh68g_PqVQPRwgAFLbFcy6AZptXLc5VJh0xrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACW8NbDfKjR6UxeJbN+PhcHOYdfhJ0T_YeBdevDiyKjojmuwdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D4DD0E.1070207@warrensweb.us>
	<CACW8NbApYkBB-m70eiUD+j2keOWHKppknPqJ9GxLW4bYw71geQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D4E7E4.50806@warrensweb.us>
	<CACW8NbAVB45YVoh68g_PqVQPRwgAFLbFcy6AZptXLc5VJh0xrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11a53e9b6fcb6d427f22919f95f7e58f@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-01 02:06, Glen Bojsza wrote:
> What I am trying to do is within a LC application
> 
> 1. put field "mytest" into URL "binfile:~/race"
> 
> This creates a file called race in the ~/ directory.
> 
> The problem is that when you do a chmod +rw race the file is still
> recognized as textedit file and NOT a UNIX executable.
> 
> When you look at a file created with LC and chmod  verses a file 
> created
> with textmate and chmod you can see the differences in the finder or 
> get
> info on both files and see the difference.

Try doing:

set the fileType to "????????"

or

set the fileType to empty

Before saving the file from LC.

The default setting is "ttxtTEXT". I believe, these days, that Mac first 
looks at the file extension and then falls back to the filetype. As the 
engine is explicitly setting the fileType of saved files (by default) to 
text, the OS will pick up any files without extensions as text files.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 03:00:58 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:00:58 +0000
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>

On 26/02/2016 19:08, Mick Collins wrote:
 > I didn?t realize there weren?t any LC8 release candidates yet.
>

In our current development process, "Release Candidate" builds are 
exactly what they say on the tin, i.e. once we release 8.0 RC 1, then 
8.0 final release will follow shortly after.

                                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 03:07:38 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 09:07:38 +0100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <A510CB04-421F-4F13-AC68-542DFC0B3832@appisle.net>
References: <56D49975.3090307@fourthworld.com> <56D49FF0.9020104@gmail.com>
	<9DF92797-9618-4304-A231-898B4AF273B9@earthednet.org>
	<1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CA+S82DpTpFN46Wnk0yUoAPjVq9wvcY5H0QQMTn=96i8WosdEEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1456806576262-4701702.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<A510CB04-421F-4F13-AC68-542DFC0B3832@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <f60560456679367afc1456a7e420f9a8@livecode.com>

Usual IANAL terms apply :)

On 2016-03-01 06:21, Monte Goulding wrote:
> My reading of this is that any content embedded in a stackFile should
> be licensed under the GPL. I could be wrong as I?m also not a lawyer!
> I would have thought that the spirit of the license that it applies to
> everything the application requires to function.

Whilst the GPL can be used to cover content there are more (GPL 
compatible) suitable ones. The main problem with applying the GPL to 
content is deciding what constitutes the 'source code'. Indeed, I 
believe there is an FAQ on the FSF site about such things but I can't 
find it at the moment (slow internet connection on a train!). Generally 
the Creative Commons style licenses are far better for content - you 
just need to pick a variant which is definitely compatible with the GPL 
(CC/0, for example).

> To be honest I?m unclear if there are grey areas about loading content
> at runtime from external files. It may be only OK to license
> differently under certain conditions like publicly documented file
> format reader/editors???? I don?t know about that but it would have
> seemed to be an easy workaround for Wordpress themes if it were
> possible to license the php part GPL and the images and CSS etc under
> some proprietary license. Like I said though, I?m not a lawyer!

There are no gray areas here. The GPL is self policing in terms of what 
it requires of the distributor of a GPL licensed work. When you convey a 
work under the GPL you have to ensure you can supply everything to the 
receiver to enable them to reproduce the work with or without 
modifications. If you attempt to ship (say) an app where the code is 
under GPL but the content files are under a proprietary license you (as 
distributor) are violating the GPL yourself as the receiver is then not 
able to reproduce the work with any modifications they might wish to 
make.

A similar situation (as far as I understand it) covers someone giving 
you C source-code (say) for a compiled GPL app they are distributing, 
but not providing the build files that they used to build it (the 
receiver has to be able to recreate what they received); or using some 
sort of code obfuscation process on any of the source files which they 
distributed (the receiver has to be able to modify the code effectively 
if they wish).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 03:19:33 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:19:33 +0000
Subject: LiveCode for Educators (was LiveCode for the Hobbyists)
In-Reply-To: <F42FAE81-3E65-4611-8B53-BE36170EFDAC@me.com>
References: <FEB50657-9566-415D-87A8-69763DF77AE9@me.com>
	<56D20C57.2070207@fourthworld.com>
	<F42FAE81-3E65-4611-8B53-BE36170EFDAC@me.com>
Message-ID: <56D55095.6060104@livecode.com>

On 27/02/2016 21:31, Tore Nilsen wrote:

> One thing I really would hope LiveCode will do, is to find room for
> this as a part of the program for the conference in Edinburgh in
> August. I have already registered and will attend. If there is
> anything I can do to help facilitate this, I am more than happy to do
> so.

Well, we're looking for people to give talks at the conference, and what 
you're proposing sounds like a very interesting and suitable topic. 
Drop support at livecode.com a message and we'll get you into the 
conference schedule.

                                   Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 03:57:34 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:57:34 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <f60560456679367afc1456a7e420f9a8@livecode.com>
References: <56D49975.3090307@fourthworld.com> <56D49FF0.9020104@gmail.com>
	<9DF92797-9618-4304-A231-898B4AF273B9@earthednet.org>
	<1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CA+S82DpTpFN46Wnk0yUoAPjVq9wvcY5H0QQMTn=96i8WosdEEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1456806576262-4701702.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<A510CB04-421F-4F13-AC68-542DFC0B3832@appisle.net>
	<f60560456679367afc1456a7e420f9a8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1278F711-91D1-4D9C-B07C-78DCE417AAE1@appisle.net>

Thanks for clarifying Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Mar 2016, at 7:07 PM, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> There are no gray areas here.



From ebeugelaar at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 04:12:11 2016
From: ebeugelaar at gmail.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 10:12:11 +0100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <f60560456679367afc1456a7e420f9a8@livecode.com>
References: <56D49975.3090307@fourthworld.com> <56D49FF0.9020104@gmail.com>
	<9DF92797-9618-4304-A231-898B4AF273B9@earthednet.org>
	<1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CA+S82DpTpFN46Wnk0yUoAPjVq9wvcY5H0QQMTn=96i8WosdEEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1456806576262-4701702.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<A510CB04-421F-4F13-AC68-542DFC0B3832@appisle.net>
	<f60560456679367afc1456a7e420f9a8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <2F01DF49-AF0C-48E7-9F8B-D360B826DA7A@gmail.com>


Hi all,

I have read most of this message thread too and for me personal this discussion is not about licenses etc.
In my opinion this discussion fired up just because of MONEY (no news btw) and emotions (Apple/Hypercard/LiveCode).

Enterprise users of LC will not have any problem to pay up to 999$/year license costs or even more if it is benefitting their businesses.

So, it seems that a lot of users who bought LC before the community editions seems to be anxious to decide within a couple of months to pay again 499$/year locked license costs beside of the costs they maybe have spent already to follow academies and buying extensions in the past. Maybe because of feelings they miss all the new features of LC? I don?t know. 
For me it is important if it is really so easy to develop new called widgets in LCB in the future. If it is like Xamarin that you will need to know both API?s of targeted platforms I just go on with native programming as I do now unfortunately.

For me personal I bought a complete license of 5.5 in 2012 I guess because of the ?develop 10x faster? slogan but this maybe the case if you develop only cross-platform DESKTOP applications which LC does very good but to develop cross-platform MOBILE apps with LC is for me another story beside of the nice IDE of LC.

To spent 999$ by the time I think the product 8.x is mature, I will take a look again if LC is a time killer in cross-platform MOBILE development and if so, I will not have any problem to pay 999$/year.

Kind regards,
Erik



Sent from Matwetwe <http://www.about.me/beugelaar>






On 01/03/16 09:07, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of mark at livecode.com> wrote:

>Usual IANAL terms apply :)
>
>On 2016-03-01 06:21, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> My reading of this is that any content embedded in a stackFile should
>> be licensed under the GPL. I could be wrong as I?m also not a lawyer!
>> I would have thought that the spirit of the license that it applies to
>> everything the application requires to function.
>
>Whilst the GPL can be used to cover content there are more (GPL 
>compatible) suitable ones. The main problem with applying the GPL to 
>content is deciding what constitutes the 'source code'. Indeed, I 
>believe there is an FAQ on the FSF site about such things but I can't 
>find it at the moment (slow internet connection on a train!). Generally 
>the Creative Commons style licenses are far better for content - you 
>just need to pick a variant which is definitely compatible with the GPL 
>(CC/0, for example).
>
>> To be honest I?m unclear if there are grey areas about loading content
>> at runtime from external files. It may be only OK to license
>> differently under certain conditions like publicly documented file
>> format reader/editors???? I don?t know about that but it would have
>> seemed to be an easy workaround for Wordpress themes if it were
>> possible to license the php part GPL and the images and CSS etc under
>> some proprietary license. Like I said though, I?m not a lawyer!
>
>There are no gray areas here. The GPL is self policing in terms of what 
>it requires of the distributor of a GPL licensed work. When you convey a 
>work under the GPL you have to ensure you can supply everything to the 
>receiver to enable them to reproduce the work with or without 
>modifications. If you attempt to ship (say) an app where the code is 
>under GPL but the content files are under a proprietary license you (as 
>distributor) are violating the GPL yourself as the receiver is then not 
>able to reproduce the work with any modifications they might wish to 
>make.
>
>A similar situation (as far as I understand it) covers someone giving 
>you C source-code (say) for a compiled GPL app they are distributing, 
>but not providing the build files that they used to build it (the 
>receiver has to be able to recreate what they received); or using some 
>sort of code obfuscation process on any of the source files which they 
>distributed (the receiver has to be able to modify the code effectively 
>if they wish).
>
>Warmest Regards,
>
>Mark.
>
>-- 
>Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 04:23:00 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 11:23:00 +0200
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
References: <56D49975.3090307@fourthworld.com> <56D49FF0.9020104@gmail.com>
	<9DF92797-9618-4304-A231-898B4AF273B9@earthednet.org>
	<1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56D55F74.20408@gmail.com>

This is when you see why Jail-breaking iPhones and iPads is not 
necessarily a bad thing.

Richmond.

On 1.03.2016 03:32, Roger Guay wrote:
> Monty,
>
> I?ve tried to be clear about this. I am not complaining, nor am I upset with anyone. I have only good wishes and intentions for LC and users of LC. I?ll get along with whatever LC brings to my future. But you know better than I, that Apple is not going to be moved. So why not make lemonade out of this lemon: Once more, I point out that this might be a good new revenue stream for LC!!! Does it hurt anyone?
>
> Roger
>
>
>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
>>
>> Roger if you are suggesting you would be happy with Community if you could publish GPL apps to Apple's stores then that's probably something to take up with Apple.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 10:39 AM, Roger Guay <irog at mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you include those who might want to publish to the Mac App Store and IOS in your estimate?
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 04:29:23 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 11:29:23 +0200
Subject: The Future of LiveCode in Education
In-Reply-To: <CB0D7D47-5831-4D78-9092-2E3815230353@sbcglobal.net>
References: <mailman.2652.1456790804.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<CB0D7D47-5831-4D78-9092-2E3815230353@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <56D560F3.5060709@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 04:19, Jim Hurley wrote:
> As programmers, most of us on this list think mainly of programming as a tool for solving problems.
> Of course, that?s how it was born. The original use of the computer was to solve hard science problems.  It was assumed that a couple dozen around the world would be sufficient.
>
> But, besides learning how to become programmers there is another important use, particularly in education, and that is computer programming as a tooI for exploring.
>
> If you?re talking about early education, consideration should be given to Turtle Graphics. Yes, that again.
> Seymour Papert, a protege of Piaget, founded the  MIT Media Lab. The lab was responsible for implementing  LOGO (based on Lisp) and Tuttle Graphics designed for young children. As many of you know, I have long been an advocate of implementing TG in LC. It is a powerful tool for learning and exploring.
>
> Here, for example, is a book written by two MIT Math professors: Turtle Geometry, The Computer as  Medium for Exploring Mathematics. MIT press, 1979. (The last chapter  is titled: Curved Space and General Relativity.)
>
> Here are the chapter titles of a book I wrote some years back designed to allow students to explore the world of physics: Logo Physics, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1985
>
> Chapter 1		Vectors
> Chapter 2		Equilibrium of forces
> Chapter 3		Free fall
> Chapter 4		Projectile motion and the CRT
> Chapter 5		Projectile motion II
> Chapter 6 	The monkey, the hunter, and Einstein?s principle of equivalence
> Chapter 7		Escape velocity
> Chapter 8		Planetary Motion
> Chapter 9 	The music of the spheres
> Chapter 10	Voyager II and lunar orbits
> Chapter 11 	Jets, rockets, and conservation of momentum
> Chapter 12	The harmonic oscillator, clocks, rabbits, and foxes (predator-prey simulation)
> Chapter 13	The big bang
> Chapter 14	Radioactive decay
> Chapter 15 	Bridges, catenaries, and the perfect arch
> Chapter 16	Fishes and optics
> Cheater 17 	Rainbows
>
> If     If we're talking about the ?The Future of LiveCode in Education? we ought to consider programming as a tool for exploration.
> Jim
>

90% of programming-for-education should be exploration rather than 
coding-qua-coding as
about 90% of school kids are probably not going to go onto careers as 
coders as such
(although they may, like myself, lurk on the peripheries).

As, in the "West" at least, people are getting ever more paranoid about 
children getting their
hands dirty and "risk", the opportunity for kids to "get down-and-dirty" 
with, say, a few bottles of acid,
alkali and a nice, wide selection of 
"only-if-you-are-a-cretin-are-they-really-dangerous" reagents has
been reduced to a big fat zero, the only realistic theatre for 
exploration does seem to be on computers.

LiveCode is the /de facto/ new BASIC, and should be pushed as such.

Richmond.


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 04:34:47 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 11:34:47 +0200
Subject: The Future of LiveCode in Education
In-Reply-To: <74C4D043-5077-4EEE-A7BB-A63504EB95EE@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2629.1456776812.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<BA793FE8-1172-4915-994A-43C7095D6ABE@siphonophore.com>
	<56D51563.7030109@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d5201f.7340c54.2377@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<74C4D043-5077-4EEE-A7BB-A63504EB95EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D56237.9050509@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 07:01, Colin Holgate wrote:
> I?m trying to figure out which bit of information you mistyped. 1983 would be fairly late for getting an Apple II, but 1983 was before the Mac was released, and the Mac II didn?t come out until early 1987 I think.
>
> Your remembered date is also four years before HyperCard was released. It could be that you meant 1993, and it was one of the last Macintosh LC II machines that you got. That would certainly have come with HyperCard.
>
> http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_lc/specs/mac_lc_ii.html

Frankly I wouldn't get picky with Brahmanathaswami about dates: the 
important point about his message has got absolutely nothing to do with 
whether it was 1983, 1993 or, for that matter, 1724!

In 1993 I ended up in a married student "cave" at Southern Illinois 
University with an LC 475 on the desk in front of me and a screaming 7 
month year old next to me (my wife had a Fulbright scholarship);
Hypercard probably prevented me from battering the baby to death!!!!!

Richmond.

>
>
>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:52 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
>>
>> I think it was circa 1983, I was in San Franscisco...  our spiritual master, Gurudeva, called from Hawaii saying "Your Apple II is coming any day. You need to sign up for some classes right away... this it the future."
>>
>> When it came... I think the 3rd thing I did after booting up was start Hypercard  and made a button
>>
>> on mouseup
>>     beep 3 times
>> end mouse
>>
>> That was it! I created my first primitive PIM (TO DO list thingy) the next week and never looked back!
>>
>> Time passes (Supercard...Richard Gaskin's pointing the way... Metacard, need for URL stuff, windows standalone for volunteers on PC's)  later, the idea of paying for the Indy was a "no brainer" and we've bought into every advance payment  plan pitch Kevin has proferred since 1997 or so when Scott Raney turned it over...
>>
>> But it all started with the first button on software pre-loaded with the machine.
>>
>> BR
>>
>>
>> On February 29, 2016 at 6:07:12 PM, J. Landman Gay (jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>) wrote:
>>
>> I don't suppose you still have any contacts over at Apple, do you? I
>> would love to see LC ship with Macs.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 06:57:39 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 03:57:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <20160301074434920489.205bb137@laposte.net>
References: <56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<20160301074434920489.205bb137@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <1456833459833-4701718.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi that is surely one way of helping "hobbyist" :: suggesting they get help
from a pro.. and give 'em some work! !?

But that is not the point I made.

As a former publisher of BOOKS, the point I made is :

what are the rules??
What protection (rules)  applies to WHAT?
What can we do/not do with the the OS version?

And whouhou!!! boys.. that does not seem to be a clear !!
Of course, that started because of the price leap announced,
but it is a much deeper question :

? What can we/or can't we do with the Open Source version
? Where does the commercial version step in

So far, the Q/A on live code site that give examples only deals with the
CODE and not the content.
Robert






--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701718.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mark at sorcery-ltd.co.uk  Tue Mar  1 07:38:49 2016
From: mark at sorcery-ltd.co.uk (Mark Wilcox)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 12:38:49 +0000
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456833459833-4701718.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<20160301074434920489.205bb137@laposte.net>
	<1456833459833-4701718.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1456835929.1107006.536116226.4D8BC37A@webmail.messagingengine.com>

> ? What can we/or can't we do with the Open Source version
> ? Where does the commercial version step in
> 
> So far, the Q/A on live code site that give examples only deals with the
> CODE and not the content.

The GPL requires that if you distribute your work, you distribute with
it everything needed to make it work under a license compatible with the
GPL. You also have to be able to modify the code and still have a
working version.

It is possible to ship a GPL program with proprietary assets, as long as
they are not essential to its function. Something some games have done
is ship a GPL version with a single working level and assets for other
levels remain proprietary. This is usually where someone has cloned a
game using the original assets - they say if you own the original you
can use theirs with the official assets. This is clearly not in the
spirit of the GPL but that kind of workaround does happen.

Designs can be registered but they are not subject to copyright law in
the same way as text/code is almost globally, so the GPL cannot really
say anything definitive about those. IANAL but I suggest you'd have a
hard time prosecuting someone for using your design if you'd released
open source code that implemented it. There is a similar debate about
patents... and much discussion on that in the open source community.

-- 
  Mark Wilcox
  mark at sorcery-ltd.co.uk




From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Tue Mar  1 09:33:39 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 09:33:39 -0500
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 3:00 AM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
wrote:

> On 26/02/2016 19:08, Mick Collins wrote:
> > I didn?t realize there weren?t any LC8 release candidates yet.
>
>>
>>
> In our current development process, "Release Candidate" builds are exactly
> what they say on the tin, i.e. once we release 8.0 RC 1, then 8.0 final
> release will follow shortly after.
>
>                                         Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>

I am glad to see so many DP versions put to the test first.  Rushing to RC
or GM only allows bugs to be overlooked.  I still can't even launch 8.0
without immediate errors being thrown, so I would expect to see a few more
DP versions.

~Roger


From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar  1 10:39:01 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 15:39:01 +0000
Subject: Custom Properties with Widgets
Message-ID: <0300E5E5-F259-4B68-ACC8-DA858B18E585@icloud.com>

Just messing about with LC8 browser widget and tried to set a custom property.

Is this possible because I couldn?t get it to take in the property inspector?


Thanks


Terry


From irog at mac.com  Tue Mar  1 10:59:08 2016
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 08:59:08 -0700
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D55F74.20408@gmail.com>
References: <56D49975.3090307@fourthworld.com> <56D49FF0.9020104@gmail.com>
	<9DF92797-9618-4304-A231-898B4AF273B9@earthednet.org>
	<1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D55F74.20408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB904EFA-2CE6-4847-88B5-2D05BD444FE6@mac.com>

Yes, but unnecessary with the current Community Version. You can ?publish? to your own (and other select) devices w/o jail-breaking them. 

Roger


> On Mar 1, 2016, at 2:23 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> This is when you see why Jail-breaking iPhones and iPads is not necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 1.03.2016 03:32, Roger Guay wrote:
>> Monty,
>> 
>> I?ve tried to be clear about this. I am not complaining, nor am I upset with anyone. I have only good wishes and intentions for LC and users of LC. I?ll get along with whatever LC brings to my future. But you know better than I, that Apple is not going to be moved. So why not make lemonade out of this lemon: Once more, I point out that this might be a good new revenue stream for LC!!! Does it hurt anyone?
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Roger if you are suggesting you would be happy with Community if you could publish GPL apps to Apple's stores then that's probably something to take up with Apple.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 10:39 AM, Roger Guay <irog at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Do you include those who might want to publish to the Mac App Store and IOS in your estimate?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From pmbrig at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 11:21:52 2016
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 11:21:52 -0500
Subject: LC 8 hard question...
In-Reply-To: <56D483CB.8090606@fourthworld.com>
References: <CACW8NbCt_EZ7jqC27W5Z-EBPaYNtpbX7hX9SLncVUfhCgUp7OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D483CB.8090606@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A604AC66-4CB8-416F-B491-1E6ABFE0C992@gmail.com>

On Feb 29, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Back in September I predicted that LC 8 might reach RC1 in March.  I've read no specific time estimates from the team, but given the good progress on a wide range of areas I'd guess that RC1 would likely occur no later than April, and would feel reasonably comfortable* guessing that a July estimate for Stable would seem achievable.
> 
> 
> * Any projection of ship dates from any one about any software is, ultimately, a form of guesswork.  We have 50 years of ACM literature to back that up, and insightful authors from Fred Brooks to Steven McConnell to explain why this unpredictability persists.  Until when a system ships can we know the ship date.  Prior to that the inevitable unpredictable things that define our universe and the software development tasks we do within it will come into play.  I always try to keep this in mind with all software from all vendors.

Two principles that apply universally to predicting a stable software release date:

The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time.

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take Hofstadter's Law into account.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Tue Mar  1 11:31:42 2016
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 17:31:42 +0100
Subject: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard question...")
Message-ID: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 11:40:41 -0500 Glen Bojsza<gbojsza at gmail.com>  wrote:
To: How to use LiveCode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>


> After reviewing all the previous releases of Livecode I am trying to
> determine when LC 8 will start getting to RC and then how long from there
> to stable.
>
> My question is hard since there is no true and fast answer on how the
> development goes ...anything can cause it to derail.
>
> But does anybody think it is reasonable to get to a stable release by July
> this year?
>
> My license expires in August and I would hope with the amount of time that
> has passed and up to then that I would get a stable release of LC 8 before
> my license expires.
>
> Or I am expecting too much?
>
> regards,
>
> Glen



You are surely not expecting too much. The question is, however, what kind of a license you own at the moment. It would not help you to get a stable release of LC 8 before your license expires in August, if it is not a "perpetual-style" one. If you bought your current license under the new subscription scheme you would have to buy a new license anyway to be able to produce closed-source stacks or apps.

According to what Livecode-Support told me, licensing rules changed to "subscription style" in April 2013 during the Kickstarter campaign. This would mean - as a requirement to be able to use your present license past your expiration date in August - that you must have bought a Commercial license before April 2013 which was valid at the same time up to August 2016.

  I am in a somewhat similar situation. I possessed a (perpetual) Commercial license (August 2012 to August 2013) at the time of the Kickstarter campaign in 2013 which license was then "extended" for three years until August 2016 on account of my Kickstarter contributions.

The Livecode CTO (Chief Technology Officer) wrote on Dec 14, 2015 (use-list: "licensing issues"):

> Up until the subscription model style license was introduced, the
> LiveCode Commercial License was perpetual per version.

and on Dec 19, 2015:

> As your current (perpetual-style) license expires in August 2016, you
> have access to a perpetual version of all versions released (whether
> they be gm, rc or dp) up until that date.

This view is not being supported by "Livecode Support". They claim that since the licensing scheme changed to "subscription" in April 2013, my perpetual license at that time was somehow affected and mutated to subscription style, too, as it were "on the fly". I was never informed about such a change during the Kickstarter campaign and I doubt that such a silent change could be legally justified.

At present my personal Livecode account shows that I even own *two" Commercial licenses:

- One - this must be my "perpetual" license - allows me to access LC versions 4.5.x to 6.1.0, and

- the other is "valid for all versions until 15th August 2016", but is strangely restricted to all versions lower than LC 7.1.2 (seven-one-two) for downloads and offline activation files.


We are discussing these issues at the moment.


Kind regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Mar  1 12:11:11 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:11:11 +0100
Subject: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard
	question...")
In-Reply-To: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
References: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <B3A71D9A-91A2-4D5F-BEE4-D17C4A586F9C@m-r-d.de>



> 
> This view is not being supported by "Livecode Support". They claim that since the licensing scheme changed to "subscription" in April 2013, my perpetual license at that time was somehow affected and mutated to subscription style, too, as it were "on the fly". I was never informed about such a change during the Kickstarter campaign and I doubt that such a silent change could be legally justified.
> 
Sorry for that expression, but if that is the view of the support team , then that is bullshit. If you bought a perpetual license, then this license allows you to use at least the version that was current at the time when you purchased that license for ever. There was also the possibility to purchase an ?additional year of upgrades?. All new released versions within that year were added to your license. That might be the reason why your perpetual license in your account shows the range 4.5.x to 6.1.0.

I am not a lawyer, but i am pretty sure they cannot change your perpetual license to a subscription license without your confirmation and without any notification.

I am confident that they will find a satisfying solution for you. I?ve had always good experiences with them discussing license questions.

Matthias


> At present my personal Livecode account shows that I even own *two" Commercial licenses:
> 
> - One - this must be my "perpetual" license - allows me to access LC versions 4.5.x to 6.1.0, and
> 
> - the other is "valid for all versions until 15th August 2016", but is strangely restricted to all versions lower than LC 7.1.2 (seven-one-two) for downloads and offline activation files.
> 
> 
> We are discussing these issues at the moment.
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From kevin at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 12:34:48 2016
From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 17:34:48 +0000
Subject: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard
	question...")
In-Reply-To: <B3A71D9A-91A2-4D5F-BEE4-D17C4A586F9C@m-r-d.de>
References: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<B3A71D9A-91A2-4D5F-BEE4-D17C4A586F9C@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>

Your language is completely unacceptable on this list.

I find in life it is generally far more productive and and conducive to
pleasant stress-free living to assume another party does not have negative
intentions unless proven otherwise. I do not believe in our long years of
history we have given you evidence that supports the idea that we take
away rights of customers after the fact. And I do not believe you are
privy to the conversation that has taken place between support and this
customer.

I?ve reviewed the thread between Heather and Wilhelm and I can see that no
such withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place. Wilhelm simply
does not yet appear to fully understand the extensive explanation that
Heather supplied. Perhaps we can improve the way we communicate these
complexities in the future.

This list is definitely not the place to discuss this. I?m sure Heather
and Wilhelm will reach a point of understanding through normal channels.
And in the mean time I would expect no repeat of this sort of language
here.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 01/03/2016 17:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote:

>>This view is not being supported by "Livecode Support". They claim that
>>since the licensing scheme changed to "subscription" in April 2013, my
>>perpetual license at that time was somehow affected and mutated to
>>subscription style, too, as it were "on the fly". I was never informed
>>about such a change during the Kickstarter campaign and I doubt that
>>such a silent change could be legally justified.
>Sorry for that expression, but if that is the view of the support team ,
>then that is bullshit. If you bought a perpetual license, then this
>license allows you to use at least the version that was current at the
>time when you purchased that license for ever. There was also the
>possibility to purchase an ?additional year of upgrades?. All new
>released versions within that year were added to your license. That might
>be the reason why your perpetual license in your account shows the range
>4.5.x to 6.1.0.
>
>I am not a lawyer, but i am pretty sure they cannot change your perpetual
>license to a subscription license without your confirmation and without
>any notification.
>
>I am confident that they will find a satisfying solution for you. I?ve
>had always good experiences with them discussing license questions.
>





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 12:57:42 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:57:42 +0200
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 16:33, Roger Eller wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 3:00 AM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26/02/2016 19:08, Mick Collins wrote:
>>> I didn?t realize there weren?t any LC8 release candidates yet.
>>>
>> In our current development process, "Release Candidate" builds are exactly
>> what they say on the tin, i.e. once we release 8.0 RC 1, then 8.0 final
>> release will follow shortly after.

I'd like to register a formal complaint: when I downloaded the last 
release candidate I didn't get a tin.

Richmond.

>>
>>                                          Peter
>>
>> --
>> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
>> LiveCode Open Source Team
>>
> I am glad to see so many DP versions put to the test first.  Rushing to RC
> or GM only allows bugs to be overlooked.  I still can't even launch 8.0
> without immediate errors being thrown, so I would expect to see a few more
> DP versions.
>
> ~Roger
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Mar  1 13:05:13 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 10:05:13 -0800
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/01/2016 09:57 AM, RM wrote:

> I'd like to register a formal complaint: when I downloaded the last
> release candidate I didn't get a tin.

Here you go.

<http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele050.html>

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Mar  1 13:08:01 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:08:01 +0100
Subject: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard
	question...")
In-Reply-To: <D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>
References: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<B3A71D9A-91A2-4D5F-BEE4-D17C4A586F9C@m-r-d.de>
	<D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <DA291172-4700-48E4-878B-47705990AB1D@m-r-d.de>

Kevin,

if you feel offended by my ?bulsh??  expression then please excuse.
And you are right i am not privy to the conversation and because of  that  i did not give any advise to him what he should do.
I just commented Wilhelm?s repetition of Livecode?s support team?s view. 
And this should be allowed. 

And  if you?ve read my entire posting then you should have seen that i do NOT in any way assume Livecode Ltd any negative intentions. I even took Livecode?s part.
Otherwise i would not have written about my positive experiences with your team.

Regards,

Matthias




> Am 01.03.2016 um 18:34 schrieb Kevin Miller <kevin at livecode.com>:
> 
> Your language is completely unacceptable on this list.
> 




> I find in life it is generally far more productive and and conducive to
> pleasant stress-free living to assume another party does not have negative
> intentions unless proven otherwise. I do not believe in our long years of
> history we have given you evidence that supports the idea that we take
> away rights of customers after the fact. And I do not believe you are
> privy to the conversation that has taken place between support and this
> customer.
> 
> I?ve reviewed the thread between Heather and Wilhelm and I can see that no
> such withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place. Wilhelm simply
> does not yet appear to fully understand the extensive explanation that
> Heather supplied. Perhaps we can improve the way we communicate these
> complexities in the future.
> 
> This list is definitely not the place to discuss this. I?m sure Heather
> and Wilhelm will reach a point of understanding through normal channels.
> And in the mean time I would expect no repeat of this sort of language
> here.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 01/03/2016 17:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote:
> 
>>> This view is not being supported by "Livecode Support". They claim that
>>> since the licensing scheme changed to "subscription" in April 2013, my
>>> perpetual license at that time was somehow affected and mutated to
>>> subscription style, too, as it were "on the fly". I was never informed
>>> about such a change during the Kickstarter campaign and I doubt that
>>> such a silent change could be legally justified.
>> Sorry for that expression, but if that is the view of the support team ,
>> then that is bullshit. If you bought a perpetual license, then this
>> license allows you to use at least the version that was current at the
>> time when you purchased that license for ever. There was also the
>> possibility to purchase an ?additional year of upgrades?. All new
>> released versions within that year were added to your license. That might
>> be the reason why your perpetual license in your account shows the range
>> 4.5.x to 6.1.0.
>> 
>> I am not a lawyer, but i am pretty sure they cannot change your perpetual
>> license to a subscription license without your confirmation and without
>> any notification.
>> 
>> I am confident that they will find a satisfying solution for you. I?ve
>> had always good experiences with them discussing license questions.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue Mar  1 13:13:27 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:13:27 +0100
Subject: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard
	question...")
In-Reply-To: <D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>
References: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<B3A71D9A-91A2-4D5F-BEE4-D17C4A586F9C@m-r-d.de>
	<D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <365606D5-6081-4C00-B057-C832D5CD9422@m-r-d.de>

And let add another thing:

The b word was used several times in this list in the past years and no one from livecode chimed in.
Anyway, i will replace it with nonsense in the future?

Matthias




> Am 01.03.2016 um 18:34 schrieb Kevin Miller <kevin at livecode.com>:
> 
> Your language is completely unacceptable on this list.
> 
> I find in life it is generally far more productive and and conducive to
> pleasant stress-free living to assume another party does not have negative
> intentions unless proven otherwise. I do not believe in our long years of
> history we have given you evidence that supports the idea that we take
> away rights of customers after the fact. And I do not believe you are
> privy to the conversation that has taken place between support and this
> customer.
> 
> I?ve reviewed the thread between Heather and Wilhelm and I can see that no
> such withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place. Wilhelm simply
> does not yet appear to fully understand the extensive explanation that
> Heather supplied. Perhaps we can improve the way we communicate these
> complexities in the future.
> 
> This list is definitely not the place to discuss this. I?m sure Heather
> and Wilhelm will reach a point of understanding through normal channels.
> And in the mean time I would expect no repeat of this sort of language
> here.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 01/03/2016 17:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote:
> 
>>> This view is not being supported by "Livecode Support". They claim that
>>> since the licensing scheme changed to "subscription" in April 2013, my
>>> perpetual license at that time was somehow affected and mutated to
>>> subscription style, too, as it were "on the fly". I was never informed
>>> about such a change during the Kickstarter campaign and I doubt that
>>> such a silent change could be legally justified.
>> Sorry for that expression, but if that is the view of the support team ,
>> then that is bullshit. If you bought a perpetual license, then this
>> license allows you to use at least the version that was current at the
>> time when you purchased that license for ever. There was also the
>> possibility to purchase an ?additional year of upgrades?. All new
>> released versions within that year were added to your license. That might
>> be the reason why your perpetual license in your account shows the range
>> 4.5.x to 6.1.0.
>> 
>> I am not a lawyer, but i am pretty sure they cannot change your perpetual
>> license to a subscription license without your confirmation and without
>> any notification.
>> 
>> I am confident that they will find a satisfying solution for you. I?ve
>> had always good experiences with them discussing license questions.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 13:14:41 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:14:41 +0200
Subject: Licensing questions again
In-Reply-To: <D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>
References: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<B3A71D9A-91A2-4D5F-BEE4-D17C4A586F9C@m-r-d.de>
	<D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D5DC11.8010901@gmail.com>

As a past master of unacceptable language, while the Livecode people may 
seem a bit
"opaque" at times, I certainly have never (over a period of some 15 
years) seen any evidence
that they have deliberately cheated anyone. I do think that they are not 
the best people in
the world at explaining how their licensing works, nor how they think 
their way through some
of the other stuff they dish out to end-users: that is NOT cheating 
anyone; that is the plain and
simple fact that as they are rather good computer people and produce a 
rather good programming
platform they aren't necessarily that good at PR.

Nor have I heard of any version of Livecode issued initially with a 
"forever" licence suddenly
stopping working because the company have changed their licensing model.
I use both Livecode (a.k.a. 'Runtime Revolution') 4.0 and 4.5 on both 
Linux and a G5 PPC Macintosh running Mac OS 10.4 and 10.5 (dual boot). 
Their licences haven't suddenly gone "pop" because
later versions of Livecode have time-limited licences.

One of the best ways to avoid getting confused about licencing issues is 
to turn on your computer (!)
and see if your Commercial version whose licence you seem to be fussed 
about can still crank out standalones . . . If it can, you're doing 
fine; if it can't you probably have to send some money to the company.  
If it can't produce standalones (meaning your time-limited licence has 
expired) make sure that when you pay your next lump you get the Livecode 
people to let you know how long the next licensing 'chunk' lasts and 
write that date somewhere easy to see; such as on the wall behind your 
computer!

Another way to avoid getting confused about licencing issues is to use 
the Community version: because
the LIvecode people have, very kindly indeed (!!!!) let us all have FREE 
versions we can use, play and develop with forever and ever without end 
(or at least until our computers go 'bang').

On 1.03.2016 19:34, Kevin Miller wrote:
> Your language is completely unacceptable on this list.
>
> I find in life it is generally far more productive and and conducive to
> pleasant stress-free living to assume another party does not have negative
> intentions unless proven otherwise. I do not believe in our long years of
> history we have given you evidence that supports the idea that we take
> away rights of customers after the fact. And I do not believe you are
> privy to the conversation that has taken place between support and this
> customer.
>
> I?ve reviewed the thread between Heather and Wilhelm and I can see that no
> such withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place. Wilhelm simply
> does not yet appear to fully understand the extensive explanation that
> Heather supplied. Perhaps we can improve the way we communicate these
> complexities in the future.

Ta-Da! What did I write at the top of the page?

Richmond.

>
> This list is definitely not the place to discuss this. I?m sure Heather
> and Wilhelm will reach a point of understanding through normal channels.
> And in the mean time I would expect no repeat of this sort of language
> here.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
>
>
>
> On 01/03/2016 17:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote:
>
>>> This view is not being supported by "Livecode Support". They claim that
>>> since the licensing scheme changed to "subscription" in April 2013, my
>>> perpetual license at that time was somehow affected and mutated to
>>> subscription style, too, as it were "on the fly". I was never informed
>>> about such a change during the Kickstarter campaign and I doubt that
>>> such a silent change could be legally justified.
>> Sorry for that expression, but if that is the view of the support team ,
>> then that is bullshit. If you bought a perpetual license, then this
>> license allows you to use at least the version that was current at the
>> time when you purchased that license for ever. There was also the
>> possibility to purchase an ?additional year of upgrades?. All new
>> released versions within that year were added to your license. That might
>> be the reason why your perpetual license in your account shows the range
>> 4.5.x to 6.1.0.
>>
>> I am not a lawyer, but i am pretty sure they cannot change your perpetual
>> license to a subscription license without your confirmation and without
>> any notification.
>>
>> I am confident that they will find a satisfying solution for you. I?ve
>> had always good experiences with them discussing license questions.
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 13:15:45 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:15:45 +0200
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com> <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D5DC51.7060802@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 20:05, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/01/2016 09:57 AM, RM wrote:
>
>> I'd like to register a formal complaint: when I downloaded the last
>> release candidate I didn't get a tin.
>
> Here you go.
>
> <http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele050.html>
>

Wow! Thanks; you win a virtual kiss.

Richmond.



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Tue Mar  1 13:15:59 2016
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 10:15:59 -0800
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com> <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfHLiQ79Vvtq32v+uymJ3UYJ3gffw5BYnfL6uy6YqsiLi8g@mail.gmail.com>

you guys are too intellectual for me...{ducking}

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> On 03/01/2016 09:57 AM, RM wrote:
>
> I'd like to register a formal complaint: when I downloaded the last
>> release candidate I didn't get a tin.
>>
>
> Here you go.
>
> <http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele050.html>




Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 13:20:09 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:20:09 +0200
Subject: Licensing questions again
In-Reply-To: <365606D5-6081-4C00-B057-C832D5CD9422@m-r-d.de>
References: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<B3A71D9A-91A2-4D5F-BEE4-D17C4A586F9C@m-r-d.de>
	<D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>
	<365606D5-6081-4C00-B057-C832D5CD9422@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <56D5DD59.6090807@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 20:13, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D wrote:
> And let add another thing:
>
> The b word was used several times in this list in the past years and no one from livecode chimed in.
> Anyway, i will replace it with nonsense in the future?
>
> Matthias
>
>

"The b word" . . . I don't think that was the problem . . .

Mind you . . . over in "Previously Great Britain" they are now so 
mealy-mouthed about
these sorts of phrases (the 'f' word, the 'b' word, the 'c' word, the 
'all the rest of the alphabet' word)
owing to the highly corrosive effects of political correctness that the 
'b' word might have
been "it" rather than the actual accusations.

Richmond "Foul-Mouthly-Challenged" Mathewson.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 13:20:57 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:20:57 +0200
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <CAFmQfHLiQ79Vvtq32v+uymJ3UYJ3gffw5BYnfL6uy6YqsiLi8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com> <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAFmQfHLiQ79Vvtq32v+uymJ3UYJ3gffw5BYnfL6uy6YqsiLi8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D5DD89.60709@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 20:15, stephen barncard wrote:
> you guys are too intellectual for me...{ducking}

So, if you aren't going to let me have a tin, where's the duck?

Richmond.

>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>
>> On 03/01/2016 09:57 AM, RM wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to register a formal complaint: when I downloaded the last
>>> release candidate I didn't get a tin.
>>>
>> Here you go.
>>
>> <http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele050.html>
>
>
>
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 13:22:16 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:22:16 +0000
Subject: Licensing questions again
In-Reply-To: <56D5DD59.6090807@gmail.com>
References: <56D5C3EE.6030805@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<B3A71D9A-91A2-4D5F-BEE4-D17C4A586F9C@m-r-d.de>
	<D2FB813F.9A824%kevin@livecode.com>
	<365606D5-6081-4C00-B057-C832D5CD9422@m-r-d.de>
	<56D5DD59.6090807@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D5DDD8.3000601@livecode.com>

On 01/03/2016 18:20, RM wrote:
> "The b word" . . . I don't think that was the problem . . .
>
> Mind you . . . over in "Previously Great Britain" they are now so
> mealy-mouthed about
> these sorts of phrases (the 'f' word, the 'b' word, the 'c' word, the
> 'all the rest of the alphabet' word)
> owing to the highly corrosive effects of political correctness that the
> 'b' word might have
> been "it" rather than the actual accusations.

I think that's rather quite enough on this topic (which is hardly 
germane to this mailing list's subject matter).

                                      Peter


-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 13:44:52 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 19:44:52 +0100
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <56D5DD89.60709@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com> <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAFmQfHLiQ79Vvtq32v+uymJ3UYJ3gffw5BYnfL6uy6YqsiLi8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5DD89.60709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0244bd11cad97f1e125916fe8e82f2f2@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-01 19:20, RM wrote:
> On 1.03.2016 20:15, stephen barncard wrote:
>> you guys are too intellectual for me...{ducking}
> 
> So, if you aren't going to let me have a tin, where's the duck?

You'll be asking for a duck in a tin next! ;)

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 13:45:57 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:45:57 +0200
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <0244bd11cad97f1e125916fe8e82f2f2@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com> <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAFmQfHLiQ79Vvtq32v+uymJ3UYJ3gffw5BYnfL6uy6YqsiLi8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5DD89.60709@gmail.com>
	<0244bd11cad97f1e125916fe8e82f2f2@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D5E365.7090300@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 20:44, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2016-03-01 19:20, RM wrote:
>> On 1.03.2016 20:15, stephen barncard wrote:
>>> you guys are too intellectual for me...{ducking}
>>
>> So, if you aren't going to let me have a tin, where's the duck?
>
> You'll be asking for a duck in a tin next! ;)
>
> Mark.
>

Now you mention it . . .

R.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 13:49:53 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:49:53 +0200
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <56D5E365.7090300@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com> <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAFmQfHLiQ79Vvtq32v+uymJ3UYJ3gffw5BYnfL6uy6YqsiLi8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5DD89.60709@gmail.com>
	<0244bd11cad97f1e125916fe8e82f2f2@livecode.com>
	<56D5E365.7090300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D5E451.5020309@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 20:45, RM wrote:
>
>
> On 1.03.2016 20:44, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>> On 2016-03-01 19:20, RM wrote:
>>> On 1.03.2016 20:15, stephen barncard wrote:
>>>> you guys are too intellectual for me...{ducking}
>>>
>>> So, if you aren't going to let me have a tin, where's the duck?
>>
>> You'll be asking for a duck in a tin next! ;)
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>
> Now you mention it . . .
>
> R.

Come to think of things . . . I can think of something I'd far rather 
have . . .

I set up a stack in Livecode 8.0 DP 15 using a script employing revMail 
(see earlier posting)
and it sent a message out through my e-mail client [exactly as it said 
on the tin],
but the script did not work when the stack was converted into HTML5 code 
via the
standalone builder.

I'd far rather have the information necessary to get e-mail messages 
sent from an HTML5
"standalone" via e-mial clients (and, ideally, via a web-browser for 
those computers that
don't have configured e-mail clients).

Richmond.



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 13:50:30 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 19:50:30 +0100
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <56D5E365.7090300@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com> <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAFmQfHLiQ79Vvtq32v+uymJ3UYJ3gffw5BYnfL6uy6YqsiLi8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5DD89.60709@gmail.com>
	<0244bd11cad97f1e125916fe8e82f2f2@livecode.com>
	<56D5E365.7090300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c21dad59cac677eb954c9ae30520eb3@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-01 19:45, RM wrote:
> On 1.03.2016 20:44, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>> On 2016-03-01 19:20, RM wrote:
>>> On 1.03.2016 20:15, stephen barncard wrote:
>>>> you guys are too intellectual for me...{ducking}
>>> 
>>> So, if you aren't going to let me have a tin, where's the duck?
>> 
>> You'll be asking for a duck in a tin next! ;)
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
> 
> Now you mention it . . .

I must confess I had to google 'duck in a tin' after posting that just 
to see what came up... Not the most appetising collection of images, I 
must confess!

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Tue Mar  1 13:58:21 2016
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:58:21 +0100
Subject: Apple Automator
In-Reply-To: <E781848C-810D-4A2A-94DE-81345048E30E@gmail.com>
References: <E781848C-810D-4A2A-94DE-81345048E30E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D5E64D.1020307@economy-x-talk.com>

Glen,

I don't think that Automator makes shell scripts. However, it is 
possible to create an app, which can be started from LiveCode. We do 
this every day, when we make invoices for buyers of my book.

Kind regards,

Mark Schonewille
http://economy-x-talk.com
https://www.facebook.com/marksch

Buy the most extensive book on the
LiveCode language:
http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com

Op 2/29/2016 om 19:24 schreef Glen Bojsza:
> Is it possible to launch Apple Automator shell scripts from LC app?
>
> thanks,
>
> Glen
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar  1 14:11:53 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:11:53 +0000
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
Message-ID: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

I may have asked this before, but am I the only one who wishes we could set the opacity of the background of a button to discrete levels without having to change the blend level of the whole button?

Yes, I realize that we can create a graphic object behind the button and set that, then make the button 100% transparent, set the graphic 1 layer below the buttonand group the two etc.

But if one is dynamically creating buttons based on some JSON or XML then you have to double-up so to speak on creating objects, making sure the layer of the graphic is just right etc..

Worth of an enhancement request? or perhaps there is a way already that I have not discovered?

BR



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 14:15:18 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:15:18 +0200
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 21:11, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> I may have asked this before, but am I the only one who wishes we could set the opacity of the background of a button to discrete levels without having to change the blend level of the whole button?
>
> Yes, I realize that we can create a graphic object behind the button and set that, then make the button 100% transparent, set the graphic 1 layer below the buttonand group the two etc.
>
> But if one is dynamically creating buttons based on some JSON or XML then you have to double-up so to speak on creating objects, making sure the layer of the graphic is just right etc..
>
> Worth of an enhancement request? or perhaps there is a way already that I have not discovered?
>
> BR
>
>

Do you mean that you want a button where an icon/image is set at 100% 
opacity and the rest of
the button to, say, 50% transparency?

Would be grateful if you could clarify this.

Richmond.



From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar  1 14:25:39 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:25:39 +0000
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

We looking at very simple button design:

1)  Border color is on/white/2px
2)  background is set to clear (no color assignment and no icon)
3)  background opacity set to 50% # if we can figure out how....
4)  Button name/label white

Now... I realize that if # 2 above is true, then possibly, since there are no pixels at all in the background that the algorithm might not be possible from a video card point of view... so we *could* set the background to white and set the opacity to a grayscale?transparency value of say... 50%  but the idea is that the text of the button name/label remains fully, 100% opaque, even thought background has an alpha channel value (some level of transparency)

From my fiddling... (I could be missing something) this is not possible either with buttons of fields  or graphics.

The use case is, again, as discussed in another thread: we want visibility of the text on top of *any* image to be visible. We do this in print all the time... but we cannot separate the blending of the text label or text itself and the background of a button/field in LC... at least I have not found a way.





On March 1, 2016 at 9:15:36 AM, RM (richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>) wrote:

Do you mean that you want a button where an icon/image is set at 100%
opacity and the rest of
the button to, say, 50% transparency?

Would be grateful if you could clarify this.

Richmond.

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 14:30:13 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:30:13 +0200
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56D5EDC5.9000107@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 21:25, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> We looking at very simple button design:
>
> 1)  Border color is on/white/2px
> 2)  background is set to clear (no color assignment and no icon)
> 3)  background opacity set to 50% # if we can figure out how....
> 4)  Button name/label white
>
> Now... I realize that if # 2 above is true, then possibly, since there are no pixels at all in the background that the algorithm might not be possible from a video card point of view... so we *could* set the background to white and set the opacity to a grayscale?transparency value of say... 50%  but the idea is that the text of the button name/label remains fully, 100% opaque, even thought background has an alpha channel value (some level of transparency)
>
>  From my fiddling... (I could be missing something) this is not possible either with buttons of fields  or graphics.
>
> The use case is, again, as discussed in another thread: we want visibility of the text on top of *any* image to be visible. We do this in print all the time... but we cannot separate the blending of the text label or text itself and the background of a button/field in LC... at least I have not found a way.

Um, well, at the risk of annoying you somewhat . . .

I have almost always "rolled my own" buttons just because of the 
limitations on Livecode-native
buttons.

I use GIMP with a series of layers (nothing particularly original or 
difficult there): one for the
'button' (rectangle with rounded edges), one for the image, and one for 
the label. Then one can
fiddle around with levels of transparency as much as one likes.

Richmond.

>
>
>
>
> On March 1, 2016 at 9:15:36 AM, RM (richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>) wrote:
>
> Do you mean that you want a button where an icon/image is set at 100%
> opacity and the rest of
> the button to, say, 50% transparency?
>
> Would be grateful if you could clarify this.
>
> Richmond.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 14:32:46 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:32:46 +0200
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <56D5EDC5.9000107@gmail.com>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EDC5.9000107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D5EE5E.6090902@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 21:30, RM wrote:
>
>
> On 1.03.2016 21:25, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>> We looking at very simple button design:
>>
>> 1)  Border color is on/white/2px
>> 2)  background is set to clear (no color assignment and no icon)
>> 3)  background opacity set to 50% # if we can figure out how....
>> 4)  Button name/label white
>>
>> Now... I realize that if # 2 above is true, then possibly, since 
>> there are no pixels at all in the background that the algorithm might 
>> not be possible from a video card point of view... so we *could* set 
>> the background to white and set the opacity to a 
>> grayscale?transparency value of say... 50%  but the idea is that the 
>> text of the button name/label remains fully, 100% opaque, even 
>> thought background has an alpha channel value (some level of 
>> transparency)
>>
>>  From my fiddling... (I could be missing something) this is not 
>> possible either with buttons of fields  or graphics.
>>
>> The use case is, again, as discussed in another thread: we want 
>> visibility of the text on top of *any* image to be visible. We do 
>> this in print all the time... but we cannot separate the blending of 
>> the text label or text itself and the background of a button/field in 
>> LC... at least I have not found a way.
>
> Um, well, at the risk of annoying you somewhat . . .
>
> I have almost always "rolled my own" buttons just because of the 
> limitations on Livecode-native
> buttons.
>
> I use GIMP with a series of layers (nothing particularly original or 
> difficult there): one for the
> 'button' (rectangle with rounded edges), one for the image, and one 
> for the label. Then one can
> fiddle around with levels of transparency as much as one likes.
>
> Richmond.

Oh, I'm sorry, I fired that one off a bit too quickly.

The faux buttons made in GIMP have to be imported and used as images in 
Livecode, because PNG
images with differing levels of transparency seem to lose the 
transparency when they are used
as icons inwith actual buttons.

R.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On March 1, 2016 at 9:15:36 AM, RM 
>> (richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>) wrote:
>>
>> Do you mean that you want a button where an icon/image is set at 100%
>> opacity and the rest of
>> the button to, say, 50% transparency?
>>
>> Would be grateful if you could clarify this.
>>
>> Richmond.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 14:36:09 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:36:09 +0200
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56D5EF29.9020309@gmail.com>

Here's a demo of what I just wrote:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63u8h6sb0gk2yjo/Button%20Games.livecode.zip?dl=0

Richmond.

On 1.03.2016 21:25, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> We looking at very simple button design:
>
> 1)  Border color is on/white/2px
> 2)  background is set to clear (no color assignment and no icon)
> 3)  background opacity set to 50% # if we can figure out how....
> 4)  Button name/label white
>
> Now... I realize that if # 2 above is true, then possibly, since there are no pixels at all in the background that the algorithm might not be possible from a video card point of view... so we *could* set the background to white and set the opacity to a grayscale?transparency value of say... 50%  but the idea is that the text of the button name/label remains fully, 100% opaque, even thought background has an alpha channel value (some level of transparency)
>
>  From my fiddling... (I could be missing something) this is not possible either with buttons of fields  or graphics.
>
> The use case is, again, as discussed in another thread: we want visibility of the text on top of *any* image to be visible. We do this in print all the time... but we cannot separate the blending of the text label or text itself and the background of a button/field in LC... at least I have not found a way.
>
>
>
>
>
> On March 1, 2016 at 9:15:36 AM, RM (richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>) wrote:
>
> Do you mean that you want a button where an icon/image is set at 100%
> opacity and the rest of
> the button to, say, 50% transparency?
>
> Would be grateful if you could clarify this.
>
> Richmond.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar  1 14:41:24 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 19:41:24 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
Message-ID: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>

I have been unable to get the Browser widget to print as I
suspect there is no option for this so I thought I would try a snapshot using this:

export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "Chart") of this card to tVar as PNG

put tVar into image "myImage"


Unfortunately it does not capture the image in the correct rect of the card even though the dimensions seem correct.

Am I missing something in the application of the export snapshot command.


Thanks

Terry

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  1 14:56:50 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 13:56:50 -0600
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <9c21dad59cac677eb954c9ae30520eb3@livecode.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com> <56D5D9D9.6000500@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAFmQfHLiQ79Vvtq32v+uymJ3UYJ3gffw5BYnfL6uy6YqsiLi8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5DD89.60709@gmail.com>
	<0244bd11cad97f1e125916fe8e82f2f2@livecode.com>
	<56D5E365.7090300@gmail.com>
	<9c21dad59cac677eb954c9ae30520eb3@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D5F402.6040809@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 12:50 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2016-03-01 19:45, RM wrote:
>> On 1.03.2016 20:44, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>>> On 2016-03-01 19:20, RM wrote:
>>>> On 1.03.2016 20:15, stephen barncard wrote:
>>>>> you guys are too intellectual for me...{ducking}
>>>>
>>>> So, if you aren't going to let me have a tin, where's the duck?
>>>
>>> You'll be asking for a duck in a tin next! ;)
>>
>> Now you mention it . . .
>
> I must confess I had to google 'duck in a tin' after posting that just
> to see what came up... Not the most appetising collection of images, I
> must confess!

It was just a little malicious teasing. It was mock duck.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Tue Mar  1 14:57:39 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 20:57:39 +0100
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <447EE244-3EF1-4322-B002-F35FA3D5498A@me.com>

You must take the distance from the left egde of the screen and from the top of the screen into consideration when you try to export a snapshot of a browser instance. The browsers position is measured from the topLeft of the screen, not the card I think.

Tore
> 1. mar. 2016 kl. 20.41 skrev Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com>:
> 
> I have been unable to get the Browser widget to print as I
> suspect there is no option for this so I thought I would try a snapshot using this:
> 
> export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "Chart") of this card to tVar as PNG
> 
> put tVar into image "myImage"
> 
> 
> Unfortunately it does not capture the image in the correct rect of the card even though the dimensions seem correct.
> 
> Am I missing something in the application of the export snapshot command.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 15:09:41 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 07:09:41 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>


> On 1 Mar 2016, at 5:05 PM, Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Why not publish your Apps for iOS
> using a Publisher Partner?
> 
> Maybe an iOS Publisher Partner 
> selected among our very own 
> LiveCode fellow developers.

We discussed this during the original Kickstarter and I believe the discussion led to a clause in the commercial license that we could not build standalones for people unless we had done work to the value of at least an Indy license. Something like that anyway?. The idea being it would be more logical for the Community user to get their own license rather than work around the GPL by using a build service. I would hope that if someone is discovered running a build service they would have their license cancelled promptly. 

On the whole this conversation seems to have steered in the direction of ?How do we deliver proprietary apps while using the GPL version?. I?m hoping we can steer it back because such a discussion does the platform and the generous terms with which we can use it a disservice. The simple answer to all these issues is to use Community if you want to distribute under the GPL and use Indy or above if you want to distribute under any license you choose. If you aren?t sure it probably means you need Indy.

Cheers

Monte

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 15:18:34 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 22:18:34 +0200
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com>



On 1.03.2016 22:09, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 5:05 PM, Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Why not publish your Apps for iOS
>> using a Publisher Partner?
>>
>> Maybe an iOS Publisher Partner
>> selected among our very own
>> LiveCode fellow developers.
> We discussed this during the original Kickstarter and I believe the discussion led to a clause in the commercial license that we could not build standalones for people unless we had done work to the value of at least an Indy license. Something like that anyway?. The idea being it would be more logical for the Community user to get their own license rather than work around the GPL by using a build service. I would hope that if someone is discovered running a build service they would have their license cancelled promptly.
>
> On the whole this conversation seems to have steered in the direction of ?How do we deliver proprietary apps while using the GPL version?. I?m hoping we can steer it back because such a discussion does the platform and the generous terms with which we can use it a disservice. The simple answer to all these issues is to use Community if you want to distribute under the GPL and use Indy or above if you want to distribute under any license you choose. If you aren?t sure it probably means you need Indy.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>

If by a "Publisher Partner" you mean getting someone who owns a licence 
to the Commercial version
of Livecode to build you stacks from your standalones, that (while 
possibly not being illegal) seems
sneaky and under-hand.

I suppose someone will try this trick sooner or later . . .

Possibly one way of preventing this is for a stack made using the 
Community version to, somehow, encode the Mac address of the machine it 
was manufactured on, and if someone tries to generate standalones using 
a licensed commercial version of Livecode on a machine with a different Mac
address the whole thing would lock up [i.e. that Commercial version 
would instantly stop working].

Richmond.



From iowahengst at mac.com  Tue Mar  1 15:20:40 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 14:20:40 -0600
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <7AADDD8D-6FF0-486D-BF18-1B166E385BB1@mac.com>

It sounds to me that you want the color of the button to be 50% ? meaning that the card (or whatever) below it will show though. And, you want the border and name of button to be opaque? if all that is correct, you might want to give this a try.

create an image in the color you want the button background to be ? perhaps white (you can do that within LC with import snapshot). Then assign that image as the icon for the button (you?ll have to fiddle with sizing the image). Set the iconGravity of the button to ?center?. Then adjust the blendLevel of the image and you?ll see that reflected in the button?s background.

If you just set the blendLevel of the button, then the name and border will also change opacity.

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On Mar 1, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> We looking at very simple button design:
> 
> 1)  Border color is on/white/2px
> 2)  background is set to clear (no color assignment and no icon)
> 3)  background opacity set to 50% # if we can figure out how....
> 4)  Button name/label white
> 
> Now... I realize that if # 2 above is true, then possibly, since there are no pixels at all in the background that the algorithm might not be possible from a video card point of view... so we *could* set the background to white and set the opacity to a grayscale?transparency value of say... 50%  but the idea is that the text of the button name/label remains fully, 100% opaque, even thought background has an alpha channel value (some level of transparency)
> 
> From my fiddling... (I could be missing something) this is not possible either with buttons of fields  or graphics.
> 
> The use case is, again, as discussed in another thread: we want visibility of the text on top of *any* image to be visible. We do this in print all the time... but we cannot separate the blending of the text label or text itself and the background of a button/field in LC... at least I have not found a way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On March 1, 2016 at 9:15:36 AM, RM (richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>) wrote:
> 
> Do you mean that you want a button where an icon/image is set at 100%
> opacity and the rest of
> the button to, say, 50% transparency?
> 
> Would be grateful if you could clarify this.
> 
> Richmond.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Tue Mar  1 15:33:25 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 21:33:25 +0100
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <447EE244-3EF1-4322-B002-F35FA3D5498A@me.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<447EE244-3EF1-4322-B002-F35FA3D5498A@me.com>
Message-ID: <D123D7D0-E02E-4D5E-AF28-AB907654290D@me.com>

It may not be the most elegant solution, but this works for me:

on mouseUp

put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect

add left of this stack to item 1 of tRect

add left of this stack to item 3 of tRect

add top of this stack to item 2 of tRect

add top of this stack to item 4 of tRect

export snapshot from rect tRect to tVar as PNG

put tVar into image "myImage"

end mouseUp


Tore
> 1. mar. 2016 kl. 20.57 skrev Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com>:
> 
> You must take the distance from the left egde of the screen and from the top of the screen into consideration when you try to export a snapshot of a browser instance. The browsers position is measured from the topLeft of the screen, not the card I think.
> 
> Tore
>> 1. mar. 2016 kl. 20.41 skrev Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com>:
>> 
>> I have been unable to get the Browser widget to print as I
>> suspect there is no option for this so I thought I would try a snapshot using this:
>> 
>> export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "Chart") of this card to tVar as PNG
>> 
>> put tVar into image "myImage"
>> 
>> 
>> Unfortunately it does not capture the image in the correct rect of the card even though the dimensions seem correct.
>> 
>> Am I missing something in the application of the export snapshot command.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at livecode.org  Tue Mar  1 15:36:55 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 12:36:55 -0800
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <032E7C1A-EF66-4257-843A-2D15BDF0EB5D@livecode.org>

By adjusting some colour values and the ink mode I could achieve what I think you are looking for, however I may have misunderstood, because I don?t quite understand the bit about having 50% opacity of a clear background!

Link to demo stack with my interpretation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhjqlx0zhdeyq2f/Button%20Demo.livecode?dl=0

HTH

Paul

> On Mar 1, 2016, at 11:25 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> We looking at very simple button design:
> 
> 1)  Border color is on/white/2px
> 2)  background is set to clear (no color assignment and no icon)
> 3)  background opacity set to 50% # if we can figure out how....
> 4)  Button name/label white
> 
> Now... I realize that if # 2 above is true, then possibly, since there are no pixels at all in the background that the algorithm might not be possible from a video card point of view... so we *could* set the background to white and set the opacity to a grayscale?transparency value of say... 50%  but the idea is that the text of the button name/label remains fully, 100% opaque, even thought background has an alpha channel value (some level of transparency)
> 
> From my fiddling... (I could be missing something) this is not possible either with buttons of fields  or graphics.
> 
> The use case is, again, as discussed in another thread: we want visibility of the text on top of *any* image to be visible. We do this in print all the time... but we cannot separate the blending of the text label or text itself and the background of a button/field in LC... at least I have not found a way.



From irog at mac.com  Tue Mar  1 15:39:32 2016
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 13:39:32 -0700
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <7A80035C-AA48-4CB2-AD8D-DE06F3E4243B@mac.com>

This doesn?t capture my part in this conversation. Personally, I am unconcerned about protecting my code/projects and I?m very happy to publish using the GPL license. But . . . BIG BUT . . . Apple won?t accept GPL, and I cannot afford the ever increasing price of the commercial license as a hobbyist. OTOH, I appear to be in a very small minority, so I?m done here!

Thanks and cheers,

Roger




> On Mar 1, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
> 
> On the whole this conversation seems to have steered in the direction of ?How do we deliver proprietary apps while using the GPL version?. I?m hoping we can steer it back because such a discussion does the platform and the generous terms with which we can use it a disservice. The simple answer to all these issues is to use Community if you want to distribute under the GPL and use Indy or above if you want to distribute under any license you choose. If you aren?t sure it probably means you need Indy.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 15:38:56 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:38:56 +0000
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>

On 01/03/2016 20:18, RM wrote:

> If by a "Publisher Partner" you mean getting someone who owns a licence
> to the Commercial version
> of Livecode to build you stacks from your standalones, that (while
> possibly not being illegal) seems
> sneaky and under-hand.
>
> I suppose someone will try this trick sooner or later . . .

That "someone" would be violating the terms and conditions of their Indy 
(or Business) license.

If they were *lucky*, they would promptly find that they didn't have 
their license any more.

Needless to say, anyone trying such a thing will be viewed with 
_extreme_ displeasure.

                                 Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Tue Mar  1 15:44:37 2016
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:44:37 -0500
Subject: LCB: Complex statement help needed in LCB
Message-ID: <ECBAC9C3-FED1-4230-87EB-79584ADAFEA0@madmansoft.com>

Hi All,

I?m looking for some help on complex statements in LCB.

I?m trying to take a script statement like this:

if (char x of tCardNum)*2 > 9 then


into the equivalent statement in LCB.

While it will compile fine, calling the function that contains the code above with give the dreaded error :
execution error at line 2 (extension: error occured with domain) near "runtime", char 8

In the LC debugger.

tCardNum is defined as a variable of type ?any?

Thanks,

Steve MacLean

From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 15:48:16 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 07:48:16 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <C238CAEB-EA0A-40F2-AA9E-E8DCC22FE1C4@appisle.net>


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 7:38 AM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> That "someone" would be violating the terms and conditions of their Indy (or Business) license.
> 
> If they were *lucky*, they would promptly find that they didn't have their license any more.
> 
> Needless to say, anyone trying such a thing will be viewed with _extreme_ displeasure.

Yes and I?d be surprised if distributing via a build service would be allowed by the GPL work-for-hire clause either which would mean the distribution to the build service would need to be GPL so in this instance I think both would be violating the terms of their license. IANAL?.

Cheers

Monte

From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 15:58:35 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:58:35 +0000
Subject: LCB: Complex statement help needed in LCB
In-Reply-To: <ECBAC9C3-FED1-4230-87EB-79584ADAFEA0@madmansoft.com>
References: <ECBAC9C3-FED1-4230-87EB-79584ADAFEA0@madmansoft.com>
Message-ID: <56D6027B.40103@livecode.com>

On 01/03/2016 20:44, Stephen MacLean wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I?m looking for some help on complex statements in LCB.
>
> I?m trying to take a script statement like this:
>
> if (char x of tCardNum)*2 > 9 then

Hi Stephen,

Don't forget that LCB is strongly typed.  That means that a string isn't 
a number, so you can't multiply it!

The expression "char x of tCardNum" evaluates to a string that's one 
character long.  If "tCardNum" has fewer than "x" characters, then it 
throws an error.

If the character is expected to be the string representation of a 
number, then you probably want to explicitly convert it to a number:

    variable tNum as Number
    put (char x of tCardNum) parsed as number into tNum
    if 9 < 2 * tNum then
       ...
    end if

                                            Peter


-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar  1 16:13:22 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 21:13:22 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <D123D7D0-E02E-4D5E-AF28-AB907654290D@me.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<447EE244-3EF1-4322-B002-F35FA3D5498A@me.com>
	<D123D7D0-E02E-4D5E-AF28-AB907654290D@me.com>
Message-ID: <D5CC73AF-8BAD-4D1E-81A7-BBBA0A674D0C@icloud.com>


> On 1 Mar 2016, at 20:33, Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com> wrote:
> 
> It may not be the most elegant solution, but this works for me:
> 
> on mouseUp
> 
> put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
> 
> add left of this stack to item 1 of tRect
> 
> add left of this stack to item 3 of tRect
> 
> add top of this stack to item 2 of tRect
> 
> add top of this stack to item 4 of tRect
> 
> export snapshot from rect tRect to tVar as PNG
> 
> put tVar into image "myImage"
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> 
> Tore


This didn?t quite work correctly on my iMac there is a grey bar at the bottom of the image.

I believe this is do with the height of the menubar?

add left of this stack to item 1 of tRect

add left of this stack to item 3 of tRect

add top of this stack - 22 to item 2 of tRect

add top of this stack - 22 to item 4 of tRect


Thanks

Terry

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  1 16:13:52 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:13:52 -0600
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
References: <1456777899477-4701662.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<7269C0EC-F264-4D46-8EC6-74C2181DFB7E@mac.com>
	<56D4C540.1030204@gmail.com>
	<1C0662A6-54EF-4C4F-93A9-DC5953C40131@appisle.net>
	<5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56D60610.2000408@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 2:09 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 5:05 PM, Alejandro Tejada
>> <capellan2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Why not publish your Apps for iOS using a Publisher Partner?
>>
>> Maybe an iOS Publisher Partner selected among our very own LiveCode
>> fellow developers.
>
> We discussed this during the original Kickstarter and I believe the
> discussion led to a clause in the commercial license that we could
> not build standalones for people unless we had done work to the value
> of at least an Indy license. Something like that anyway?. The idea
> being it would be more logical for the Community user to get their
> own license rather than work around the GPL by using a build service.
> I would hope that if someone is discovered running a build service
> they would have their license cancelled promptly.

If memory serves, the LC team has (had?) a service that would build for 
iOS for you as well as help with all the back-end Apple certification, 
etc. Is that still around?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Tue Mar  1 16:14:32 2016
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:14:32 -0500
Subject: LCB: Complex statement help needed in LCB
In-Reply-To: <56D6027B.40103@livecode.com>
References: <ECBAC9C3-FED1-4230-87EB-79584ADAFEA0@madmansoft.com>
	<56D6027B.40103@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <DF92EB4C-3535-46CE-8844-F0431DAEFFCB@madmansoft.com>


> On Mar 1, 2016, at 3:58 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 01/03/2016 20:44, Stephen MacLean wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I?m looking for some help on complex statements in LCB.
>> 
>> I?m trying to take a script statement like this:
>> 
>> if (char x of tCardNum)*2 > 9 then
> 
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> Don't forget that LCB is strongly typed.  That means that a string isn't a number, so you can't multiply it!
> 
> The expression "char x of tCardNum" evaluates to a string that's one character long.  If "tCardNum" has fewer than "x" characters, then it throws an error.
> 
> If the character is expected to be the string representation of a number, then you probably want to explicitly convert it to a number:
> 
>   variable tNum as Number
>   put (char x of tCardNum) parsed as number into tNum
>   if 9 < 2 * tNum then
>      ...
>   end if
> 
>                                           Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks:) Being strongly typed has it?s plusses and minuses. I was hoping to avoid ?parsed as number? by using the ?any? type.

It looks like that when you have a variable in LCB with a type of ?any? and perform an action on it, it becomes that type. So perform ?put the number of chars in tCardNum into tLen? and tCardNum becomes a string type. Do "put 0 into tCheckSum? and tCheckSum becomes a number.

I'll give it a go. While I could just wrap the whole thing up and execute it as a script, I?m really trying to do as much as possible in LCB to learn.

Thanks so much!

Best,

Steve MacLean



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar  1 16:15:17 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 21:15:17 +0000
Subject: LC8 Browser widget
Message-ID: <3ED9BF16-BFCD-4C39-92C7-F8D37768AA01@icloud.com>

Is it the intention to add printing functionality to this widget?


Thanks

Terry



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  1 16:23:57 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:23:57 -0600
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56D6086D.1030003@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 1:25 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> We looking at very simple button design:
>
> 1)  Border color is on/white/2px
> 2)  background is set to clear (no color assignment and no icon)
> 3)  background opacity set to 50% # if we can figure out how....
> 4)  Button name/label white
...
> The use case is, again, as discussed in another thread: we want
 > visibility of the text on top of *any* image to be visible.


If you set the icon of the button to the image rather than its 
backpattern, you can do it by adjusting the opacity of the referenced image.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Mar  1 16:24:40 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 13:24:40 -0800
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <7AADDD8D-6FF0-486D-BF18-1B166E385BB1@mac.com>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<7AADDD8D-6FF0-486D-BF18-1B166E385BB1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D2FB446E.7B699%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Another option similar to Randy's is to create an image tile -- for
example, a 48x48 white PNG that's 50% opaque -- and assign this as the
backPattern of the button.  Using this method you can scale the button to
any size and the translucency will fill accordingly.  You can also assign
a separate icon if desired.

Unless you REALLY need the properties of a button control, you can also
consider other objects to act as buttons, such as graphics, where you can
employ a translucent gradient fill to the control, or fields, where you
can create the effect of a label that has multiple text styles.  There are
several options for create button-style controls.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/1/16, 12:20 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Randy Hengst"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of iowahengst at mac.com>
wrote:

>It sounds to me that you want the color of the button to be 50% ? meaning
>that the card (or whatever) below it will show though. And, you want the
>border and name of button to be opaque? if all that is correct, you might
>want to give this a try.
>
>create an image in the color you want the button background to be ?
>perhaps white (you can do that within LC with import snapshot). Then
>assign that image as the icon for the button (you?ll have to fiddle with
>sizing the image). Set the iconGravity of the button to ?center?. Then
>adjust the blendLevel of the image and you?ll see that reflected in the
>button?s background.
>
>If you just set the blendLevel of the button, then the name and border
>will also change opacity.
>
>be well,
>randy
>
>Randy Hengst
>www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com
>
>
>> On Mar 1, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami
>><brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
>> 
>> We looking at very simple button design:
>> 
>> 1)  Border color is on/white/2px
>> 2)  background is set to clear (no color assignment and no icon)
>> 3)  background opacity set to 50% # if we can figure out how....
>> 4)  Button name/label white
>> 





From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 16:30:55 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:30:55 +0000
Subject: LCB: Complex statement help needed in LCB
In-Reply-To: <DF92EB4C-3535-46CE-8844-F0431DAEFFCB@madmansoft.com>
References: <ECBAC9C3-FED1-4230-87EB-79584ADAFEA0@madmansoft.com>
	<56D6027B.40103@livecode.com>
	<DF92EB4C-3535-46CE-8844-F0431DAEFFCB@madmansoft.com>
Message-ID: <56D60A0F.5040405@livecode.com>

On 01/03/2016 21:14, Stephen MacLean wrote:

> Thanks:) Being strongly typed has it?s plusses and minuses. I was
> hoping to avoid ?parsed as number? by using the ?any? type.
>
> It looks like that when you have a variable in LCB with a type of
> ?any? and perform an action on it, it becomes that type. So perform
> ?put the number of chars in tCardNum into tLen? and tCardNum becomes
> a string type. Do "put 0 into tCheckSum? and tCheckSum becomes a
> number.

It's a bit better to think of pegs (values) and holes (slots).  If you 
write:

    variable tStringVar as String

then you're creating a "String-shaped hole".  It'll only let you put a 
"String-shaped peg" into it, i.e. a value of type String.

If you did:

    put 5 into tStringVar

then you get an error -- you're "putting a square peg into a round 
hole", as it were.

The "any" metatype is a bit special, because it only applies to slots. 
There's no such thing as a value of type "any".  Also, note that you 
can't put the "nothing" value into a slot of type "any".

Going to your examples:

    variable tCardNum as any
    variable tLen as any
    put (the number of chars in (tCardNum)) into tLen

I've added some parentheses to show how evaluation proceeds.  First 
"tCardNum" is evaluated, producing a value $1.  Next, "the number of 
chars in $1" is evaluated.  If the value $1 is a String, then it 
produces a value $2 (which happens to be always a Number).  Otherwise, 
it generates an error.  Finally, "put $2 into tLen" is evaluated.  Since 
$2 is a value of type Number, and tLen is a slot of type "any", they're 
compatible, and the assignment works.  The result is that tLen, a slot 
of type any, contains a value of type Number.

Note that nothing about that statement changes the type of tCardNum (or 
the value it contains).

    variable tCheckSum as any
    put 0 into tCheckSum

First "0" is evaluated, producing $1 (a value of type Number).  Next, 
"put $1 into tCheckSum" is evaluated.  Since $1 is a value of type 
Number, and tCheckSum is a slot of type any, the assignment is 
permitted.  The result is the same: tCheckSum, a slot of type any, 
contains a value of type Number (i.e. tCheckSum is 0).

> I'll give it a go. While I could just wrap the whole thing up and
> execute it as a script, I?m really trying to do as much as possible
> in LCB to learn.

Yes.  I quite like programming in LCB because the compiler helps catch 
(some) silly mistakes.  However, there are some things that are 
difficult (or impossible) using only LCB.  Hopefully, that will be dealt 
with over time!

                                      Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 16:31:47 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:31:47 +0000
Subject: LC8 Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <3ED9BF16-BFCD-4C39-92C7-F8D37768AA01@icloud.com>
References: <3ED9BF16-BFCD-4C39-92C7-F8D37768AA01@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56D60A43.5050405@livecode.com>

On 01/03/2016 21:15, Terence Heaford wrote:
> Is it the intention to add printing functionality to this widget?

Yes, but the core dev team probably won't have time to work on it before 
the LiveCode 8.0 release.

                                    Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  1 16:32:58 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:32:58 -0600
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 1:41 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
> I have been unable to get the Browser widget to print as I
> suspect there is no option for this so I thought I would try a snapshot using this:
>
> export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "Chart") of this card to tVar as PNG
>
> put tVar into image "myImage"
>
>
> Unfortunately it does not capture the image in the correct rect of the card even though the dimensions seem correct.
>
> Am I missing something in the application of the export snapshot command.

The coordinates are global to the screen unless you specify a window ID. 
I.e., 0,0 is the top left corner of the monitor.

You can either translate the coords to global using globalLoc() or 
specify a window ID. From the docs:

"To export a snapshot for a portion of a stack you use the form:
export snapshot from rect[angle] of window windowID to ...
Where windowId is the windowId property of the required stack."

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Tue Mar  1 16:45:42 2016
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:45:42 -0500
Subject: LCB: Complex statement help needed in LCB
In-Reply-To: <56D60A0F.5040405@livecode.com>
References: <ECBAC9C3-FED1-4230-87EB-79584ADAFEA0@madmansoft.com>
	<56D6027B.40103@livecode.com>
	<DF92EB4C-3535-46CE-8844-F0431DAEFFCB@madmansoft.com>
	<56D60A0F.5040405@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <43DDC6A6-4375-48A2-AF50-5485617D691C@madmansoft.com>


> On Mar 1, 2016, at 4:30 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> I'll give it a go. While I could just wrap the whole thing up and
>> execute it as a script, I?m really trying to do as much as possible
>> in LCB to learn.
> 
> Yes.  I quite like programming in LCB because the compiler helps catch (some) silly mistakes.  However, there are some things that are difficult (or impossible) using only LCB.  Hopefully, that will be dealt with over time!
> 
>                                     Peter
> 

Hi Peter,

Thanks for all the examples, helps a lot!

The complier helps a bit, here?s to hoping that some sort of ?remote? debugger for it is coming. While i?m getting better at guessing where my errors are, it takes forever to narrow it down and then build out again. Definitely way slower than coding in LCS.

But I sense once we have access to the underlying OS foundations, it?s going to be the place to be to get what I need:)

Thanks again,

Steve





From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar  1 16:57:29 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 21:57:29 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>


> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:32, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
> 
> "To export a snapshot for a portion of a stack you use the form:
> export snapshot from rect[angle] of window windowID to ...
> Where windowId is the windowId property of the required stack."

This does not work correctly on a Mac for the reason given previously.

The top and bottom of the image exported has shifted down by the depth of the menubar.
put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect

export snapshot from rectangle tRect of window (the windowId of window "Test") to tVar as PNG


The corrected version would be:

put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect

subtract 22 from item 2 of tRect

subtract 22 from item 4 of tRect

export snapshot from rectangle tRect of window (the windowId of window  ?Test") to tVar as PNG



All the best

Terry

From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar  1 16:58:02 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 21:58:02 +0000
Subject: LC8 Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <56D60A43.5050405@livecode.com>
References: <3ED9BF16-BFCD-4C39-92C7-F8D37768AA01@icloud.com>
	<56D60A43.5050405@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <8A306886-4BEB-4977-A5BC-2D39FE56A664@icloud.com>


> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:31, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 01/03/2016 21:15, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> Is it the intention to add printing functionality to this widget?
> 
> Yes, but the core dev team probably won't have time to work on it before the LiveCode 8.0 release.
> 
>                                   Peter
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



Thanks for the response


Terry


From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar  1 17:07:03 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 22:07:03 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>
	<67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>


> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:57, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
> 
> subtract 22 from item 2 of tRect
> 
> subtract 22 from item 4 of tRect


As a Mac only person I really find it weird to keep having to make adjustments for the height of a menu.

All the best

Terry

From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 17:11:14 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 22:11:14 +0000
Subject: Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dr0hT+kYVYMCO2cjReQWKt7iAkO0MRunynLtY6j-fW_ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <etPan.56ce9837.401b16fe.1b1@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56CF46A0.4000704@fourthworld.com>
	<CA+S82Drs+VYqNPBOdjo_HV6BjH2M2PJNzfG-Y3Q7W0A3WqpKLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<64EF2E0D-F7BF-4A6A-88D2-56BCB715B13E@livecode.com>
	<CA+S82Dr0hT+kYVYMCO2cjReQWKt7iAkO0MRunynLtY6j-fW_ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D61382.7000208@livecode.com>

On 25/02/2016 19:23, Matt Maier wrote:
> That was too abstract and hypothetical for me to be sure I followed
> correctly.
>
> In the approach the Livecode team is taking now, is it accurate to say that
> the html5 standalone bundles up the livecode engine with any app-specific
> objects/scripts and pushes the whole thing into the client browser, such
> that all of the (supportable) functionality runs client-side?

Just to clarify: yes, that's exactly correct.

                                   Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 16:50:57 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 13:50:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
References: <5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>

The price rise in the commercial license has led me to try understand the
Opens SOurce License, although I had always in my mind to keep with a
commercial license ideally.

And that leads to big surprises. I'll be doing a little bit of homework on
that. 

*Question 1 :: is there somewhere a kind of WIKI place for live code whereI
could start up open a license subject/page to be amended in a more
structured and constructive way than that list???*

Question 2 :: In that spirit, Peter TB Brett, it would be a contribution if
could you throw in the source/ref of the terms & conditions of the indy
license that forbids to provide the service described by J L. just above 
consisting in accompanying an author in the realm of iOs app publishing. 

Behing the great idea of a Open SOurce, it is surpassing to find so much
barriers being built around it.
And that does not seem totally realistic and respectful either.

I find it hard and really surprising that such a service is not provided by
somebody because I would find it really useful. Thinking about it, I
actually have one project I worked upon that would greatly benefit from such
a service as I just do not have time to dig and try out myself the iOs
publishing. Frankly it just is not a thing you just do once as a hobbits to
my view.

On the indy side, i find it very intriguing that you can invest into a tool
and be so tightly regulated as to what you can or not do.

So far to go into the iOs model, you need :
-- to do it yourself (if calling help from an indy is banned!)
-- invest in the tool 1000 bucks, plus..
-- invest time in trying out things with a stange spread out documentation
here and there.
-- deal with mister apple and the niceties & subtleties one regularly see in
the forum..

Mumm.. sounds great!! 




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701775.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 17:17:33 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 22:17:33 +0000
Subject: Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?
In-Reply-To: <D2F4E92F.1E4B8%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <etPan.56b6c0c2.32e9ea81.5e7@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1454942234194-4700894.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56CD8213.8010801@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56ce625a.5a32ccaf.237@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1B9D8A0C-970C-46AA-A68B-30A29B6023FC@appisle.net>
	<etPan.56ce9837.401b16fe.1b1@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56CE9ADA.9000308@livecode.com> <D2F4E92F.1E4B8%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <56D614FD.4060202@livecode.com>

On 25/02/2016 06:28, Terry Judd wrote:
> Apologies for hijacking this thread somewhat but Peter could you possibly
> comment on the likelihood of clipboard support being added to HTML5 in the
> near (or middle) future. I understand there are potential security
> concerns around use of the clipboard but it would be good to hear your
> thoughts on how these might be accommodated (or not).

It basically depends on two things:

1) A suitable JavaScript API being available in browsers 
(http://caniuse.com/#feat=clipboard).  Since I first started looking at 
HTML5 support, this aspect has actually come on leaps and bounds.  Using 
the appropriate HTML5 JavaScript API, correctly, should

2) Someone who's comfortable simultaneously working in 3-4 different 
programming languages having time to hook it up to the LiveCode engine.

                                       Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  1 17:22:34 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:22:34 -0600
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>
	<67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56D6162A.9030807@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 3:57 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
>
>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:32, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> "To export a snapshot for a portion of a stack you use the form:
>> export snapshot from rect[angle] of window windowID to ... Where
>> windowId is the windowId property of the required stack."
>
> This does not work correctly on a Mac for the reason given
> previously.
>
> The top and bottom of the image exported has shifted down by the
> depth of the menubar. put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
>
> export snapshot from rectangle tRect of window (the windowId of
> window "Test") to tVar as PNG

It works here on a Mac. I happened to have a tree view widget at hand, 
but any of them should work.

put the windowid of this stack into twid
export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "tree view") \
    of window twid to file "imgTest.png" as PNG

No adjustments needed.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Tue Mar  1 17:24:39 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 23:24:39 +0100
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <56D6162A.9030807@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>
	<67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
	<56D6162A.9030807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C950BE14-14C4-4BC1-B5F9-1082266E310C@me.com>

I think Terence has a menuBar of his own making in the stack, that would count for the extra 22 pixels on the card being pushed upward on the mac version, but still a part of the card height.

Tore


> 1. mar. 2016 kl. 23.22 skrev J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>:
> 
> On 3/1/2016 3:57 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> 
>>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:32, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> "To export a snapshot for a portion of a stack you use the form:
>>> export snapshot from rect[angle] of window windowID to ... Where
>>> windowId is the windowId property of the required stack."
>> 
>> This does not work correctly on a Mac for the reason given
>> previously.
>> 
>> The top and bottom of the image exported has shifted down by the
>> depth of the menubar. put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
>> 
>> export snapshot from rectangle tRect of window (the windowId of
>> window "Test") to tVar as PNG
> 
> It works here on a Mac. I happened to have a tree view widget at hand, but any of them should work.
> 
> put the windowid of this stack into twid
> export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "tree view") \
>   of window twid to file "imgTest.png" as PNG
> 
> No adjustments needed.
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 17:25:24 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 22:25:24 +0000
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>

Hi Robert,

The situation is quite simple:

1) The Open Source edition of LiveCode is licensed under the GNU General 
Public License, version 3.  This says that if you distribute works 
derived from the Open Source edition of LiveCode (which we interpret to 
include stack files), then you must do so under the same license.

2) The Apple App Store terms and conditions are incompatible with the 
GPL v3.  So you can't distribute apps created with the Open Source 
edition of LiveCode via the Apple App Store without violating the 
copyright of LiveCode.

Whether your program gets from the Open Source edition of LiveCode to 
the App Store by one or more intermediate people is immaterial.

LiveCode Ltd. have not built any barriers around the Open Source 
edition; the only one that matters was constructed by Apple.

I recommend acquiring an Android phone.

                                Peter

On 01/03/2016 21:50, Robert Mann wrote:
> The price rise in the commercial license has led me to try understand the
> Opens SOurce License, although I had always in my mind to keep with a
> commercial license ideally.
>
> And that leads to big surprises. I'll be doing a little bit of homework on
> that.
>
> *Question 1 :: is there somewhere a kind of WIKI place for live code whereI
> could start up open a license subject/page to be amended in a more
> structured and constructive way than that list???*
>
> Question 2 :: In that spirit, Peter TB Brett, it would be a contribution if
> could you throw in the source/ref of the terms & conditions of the indy
> license that forbids to provide the service described by J L. just above
> consisting in accompanying an author in the realm of iOs app publishing.
>
> Behing the great idea of a Open SOurce, it is surpassing to find so much
> barriers being built around it.
> And that does not seem totally realistic and respectful either.
>
> I find it hard and really surprising that such a service is not provided by
> somebody because I would find it really useful. Thinking about it, I
> actually have one project I worked upon that would greatly benefit from such
> a service as I just do not have time to dig and try out myself the iOs
> publishing. Frankly it just is not a thing you just do once as a hobbits to
> my view.
>
> On the indy side, i find it very intriguing that you can invest into a tool
> and be so tightly regulated as to what you can or not do.
>
> So far to go into the iOs model, you need :
> -- to do it yourself (if calling help from an indy is banned!)
> -- invest in the tool 1000 bucks, plus..
> -- invest time in trying out things with a stange spread out documentation
> here and there.
> -- deal with mister apple and the niceties & subtleties one regularly see in
> the forum..
>
> Mumm.. sounds great!!
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701775.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  1 17:27:11 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:27:11 -0600
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>
	<67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56D6173F.7000300@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 3:57 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
> put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect

That may be the problem.

put the rect *OF* widget "chart"...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar  1 17:28:48 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 14:28:48 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
Message-ID: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>

Folks:
I?ve ?bit the bullet? and started to work on my app with LC8-DP15. I?m on OSX El-Capitan. 

The first thing I?ve noticed is that selecting objects in the Project Browser and stack window is poor. In 7.1 versions and older, when I clicked on an object on the stack window, it would hilite the corresponding entry on the project browser. First off, I find that clicking on different objects in the stack screen, it often refuses to ?select? a new object until I click around. Secondly, when I click on an object on the stack window, it should hilite in the project browser. This is very convenient when developing, and it doesn?t seem to happen in LC8.

So, I?m still on LC8, but the IDE, nice and shiny new as it is, still needs some work. Or, perhaps I just haven?t figured out all of its new options yet.

Best,
Bill



William Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
prothero at earthednet.org






From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 17:28:46 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 22:28:46 +0000
Subject: Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?
In-Reply-To: <56D614FD.4060202@livecode.com>
References: <etPan.56b6c0c2.32e9ea81.5e7@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1454942234194-4700894.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56CD8213.8010801@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56ce625a.5a32ccaf.237@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1B9D8A0C-970C-46AA-A68B-30A29B6023FC@appisle.net>
	<etPan.56ce9837.401b16fe.1b1@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56CE9ADA.9000308@livecode.com> <D2F4E92F.1E4B8%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>
	<56D614FD.4060202@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D6179E.6090507@livecode.com>



On 01/03/2016 22:17, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 25/02/2016 06:28, Terry Judd wrote:
>> Apologies for hijacking this thread somewhat but Peter could you possibly
>> comment on the likelihood of clipboard support being added to HTML5 in
>> the
>> near (or middle) future. I understand there are potential security
>> concerns around use of the clipboard but it would be good to hear your
>> thoughts on how these might be accommodated (or not).
>
> It basically depends on two things:
>
> 1) A suitable JavaScript API being available in browsers
> (http://caniuse.com/#feat=clipboard).  Since I first started looking at
> HTML5 support, this aspect has actually come on leaps and bounds.  Using
> the appropriate HTML5 JavaScript API, correctly, should

Note in particular, from the website I've linked above, that many 
browsers won't provide "paste" at all, or won't provide it without a 
focussed, editable HTML form text field.  These are a the security 
considerations I mentioned previously.

                                           Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 17:31:10 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 14:31:10 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D60610.2000408@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <56D60610.2000408@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56D6182E.4050409@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > If memory serves, the LC team has (had?) a service that would build
 > for iOS for you as well as help with all the back-end Apple
 > certification, etc. Is that still around?

I don't believe so.  As I wrote in this thread two days ago:

>  > What I questionned is that we're going to be missing an intermediate
>  > tool/license that would allow somebody to close SOME of his work at a
>  > reasonable cost for a hobbyist. Just as was originally designed in
>  > Hypercard.
>
> Originally HyperCard was given away for free with every Mac.
>
> Indeed, once it became a product under Claris it proved difficult for it
> to sustain itself economically.
>
> FWIW, LC has experimented with a wide range of price points over the
> years, including many that match price points suggested in recent
> related threads here.  If they had produced the sort of results hoped
> for we wouldn't be having this conversation today.


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  1 17:39:32 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:39:32 -0600
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <C950BE14-14C4-4BC1-B5F9-1082266E310C@me.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>
	<67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
	<56D6162A.9030807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<C950BE14-14C4-4BC1-B5F9-1082266E310C@me.com>
Message-ID: <56D61A24.3000406@hyperactivesw.com>

Oh! I understand now. That might be a bug, depending on how you look at 
it. Card coordinates don't change when there's a menu scrolled out of 
view; you'd think that snapshots wouldn't either.

On 3/1/2016 4:24 PM, Tore Nilsen wrote:
> I think Terence has a menuBar of his own making in the stack, that would count for the extra 22 pixels on the card being pushed upward on the mac version, but still a part of the card height.
>
> Tore
>
>
>> 1. mar. 2016 kl. 23.22 skrev J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>:
>>
>> On 3/1/2016 3:57 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:32, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "To export a snapshot for a portion of a stack you use the form:
>>>> export snapshot from rect[angle] of window windowID to ... Where
>>>> windowId is the windowId property of the required stack."
>>>
>>> This does not work correctly on a Mac for the reason given
>>> previously.
>>>
>>> The top and bottom of the image exported has shifted down by the
>>> depth of the menubar. put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
>>>
>>> export snapshot from rectangle tRect of window (the windowId of
>>> window "Test") to tVar as PNG
>>
>> It works here on a Mac. I happened to have a tree view widget at hand, but any of them should work.
>>
>> put the windowid of this stack into twid
>> export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "tree view") \
>>    of window twid to file "imgTest.png" as PNG
>>
>> No adjustments needed.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 17:39:54 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 14:39:54 -0800
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>

Terence Heaford wrote:

>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:57, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com> wrote:
>>
>> put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
>>
>> subtract 22 from item 2 of tRect
>>
>> subtract 22 from item 4 of tRect
>
> As a Mac only person I really find it weird to keep having to make adjustments for the height of a menu.

I dream of a day when I can enjoy that minor weirdness to support 
Ubuntu's global menu bar:

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10026

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 17:39:13 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 22:39:13 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>



On 01/03/2016 22:28, William Prothero wrote:

> The first thing I?ve noticed is that selecting objects in the Project
> Browser and stack window is poor. In 7.1 versions and older, when I
> clicked on an object on the stack window, it would hilite the
> corresponding entry on the project browser. First off, I find that
> clicking on different objects in the stack screen, it often refuses
> to ?select? a new object until I click around. Secondly, when I click
> on an object on the stack window, it should hilite in the project
> browser. This is very convenient when developing, and it doesn?t seem
> to happen in LC8.

Hi Bill,

Selected objects are now shown in the Project Browser with a highlighted 
border.  You can "zoom to" an object by right-clicking on it (on the 
stack) and selecting "Show in Project Browser".  This was an intentional 
change to make it slightly easier to not "lose your place" in the 
Project Browser view when you change the selected object in a stack with 
lots of controls.

I think I remember seeing a bug relating to selecting things, but I 
can't find it right now... please go ahead and file a bug report if you 
can reliably reproduce the problem.

> So, I?m still on LC8, but the IDE, nice and shiny new as it is, still
> needs some work. Or, perhaps I just haven?t figured out all of its
> new options yet.

Feedback is always appreciated.  Currently I'm finding that the LiveCode 
8 IDE is actually a big improvement over the LiveCode 7 one for the 
things that I use it for (but I'm aware that I'm a *very* atypical user!)

                                              Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 17:53:59 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 14:53:59 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>

Robert Mann wrote:

 > Behing the great idea of a Open SOurce, it is surpassing to find
 > so much barriers being built around it.

As Peter explained, for most use cases it's not all that deep.

But for edge cases all licenses can be complex, open source and 
proprietary alike.

The only reason some folks think proprietary licenses are simple is 
because they don't read them. :)

Consider the EULA for Apple's proprietary Final Cut Pro:

The features and even the name imply that it might be an excellent 
choice for a wide range of uses that can include professional work.  And 
indeed I know may pros who've used it; I'm sure many others here do too.

But did they write a fairly hefty check to the MPEGLA patent consortium 
to be legally able to do so?

The Final Cut Pro EULA includes:

    12. MPEG-2 Notice. To the extent that the Apple Software contains
    MPEG-2 functionality, the following provision applies: ANY USE OF
    THIS PRODUCT OTHER THAN CONSUMER PERSONAL USE IN ANY MANNER THAT
    COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG-2 STANDARD FOR ENCODING VIDEO INFORMATION
    FOR PACKAGED MEDIA IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED WITHOUT A LICENSE UNDER
    APPLICABLE PATENTS IN THE MPEG-2 PATENT PORTFOLIO, WHICH LICENSE
    IS AVAILABLE FROM MPEG LA, L.L.C., 250 STEELE STREET, SUITE 300,
    DENVER, COLORADO 80206.

    13. MPEG-4 Notice. This product is licensed under the MPEG-4 Systems
    Patent Portfolio License for encoding in compliance with the MPEG-4
    Systems Standard, except that an additional license and payment of
    royalties are necessary for encoding in connection with (i) data
    stored or replicated in physical media which is paid for on a title
    by title basis and/or (ii) data which is paid for on a title by
    title basis and is transmitted to an end user for permanent storage
    and/or use. Such additional license may be obtained from MPEG LA,
    LLC. See http://www.mpegla.com for additional details.

    Additional use licenses and fees are required for use of information
    encoded in compliance with the MPEG-4 Visual Standard other than the
    personal and non-commercial use of a consumer (i) in connection with
    information which has been encoded in compliance with the MPEG-4
    Visual Standard by a consumer engaged in a personal and
    non-commercial activity, and/or (ii) in connection with MPEG-4
    encoded video under license from a video provider. Additional
    information including that relating to promotional,internal and
    commercial uses and licensing may be obtained from MPEG LA, LLC.
    See http://www.mpegla.com.

<http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/finalcutpro.htm>


Any license can be complex, and all are worth reading.

At least most open source licenses are standardized, so you only need to 
read one or two to understand the terms for thousands of software 
packages.

But every proprietary license can be unique, requiring us to go through 
them all with each version of each package to see what details may lie 
within.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Mar  1 17:57:26 2016
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 22:57:26 +0000
Subject: Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?
In-Reply-To: <56D6179E.6090507@livecode.com>
References: <etPan.56b6c0c2.32e9ea81.5e7@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1454942234194-4700894.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56CD8213.8010801@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56ce625a.5a32ccaf.237@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1B9D8A0C-970C-46AA-A68B-30A29B6023FC@appisle.net>
	<etPan.56ce9837.401b16fe.1b1@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56CE9ADA.9000308@livecode.com> <D2F4E92F.1E4B8%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>
	<56D614FD.4060202@livecode.com> <56D6179E.6090507@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <D2FC6823.1E7D9%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

On 2/03/2016 9:28 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Peter TB Brett"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:

>
>
>On 01/03/2016 22:17, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>> On 25/02/2016 06:28, Terry Judd wrote:
>>> Apologies for hijacking this thread somewhat but Peter could you
>>>possibly
>>> comment on the likelihood of clipboard support being added to HTML5 in
>>> the
>>> near (or middle) future. I understand there are potential security
>>> concerns around use of the clipboard but it would be good to hear your
>>> thoughts on how these might be accommodated (or not).
>>
>> It basically depends on two things:
>>
>> 1) A suitable JavaScript API being available in browsers
>> (http://caniuse.com/#feat=clipboard).  Since I first started looking at
>> HTML5 support, this aspect has actually come on leaps and bounds.  Using
>> the appropriate HTML5 JavaScript API, correctly, should
>
>Note in particular, from the website I've linked above, that many
>browsers won't provide "paste" at all, or won't provide it without a
>focussed, editable HTML form text field.  These are a the security
>considerations I mentioned previously.

Thanks for the explanation Peter - in my case I?m looking to paste a
simple report (plain text) into an editable text field on another page, so
possible at least.

Regards,

Terry...




From waprothero at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 18:00:38 2016
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:00:38 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <7DFFC47C-9D86-4A56-9C61-32C13CB5B30E@gmail.com>

Tnx Peter: It?s indeed a feature! Thanks. 

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 1, 2016, at 2:39 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 01/03/2016 22:28, William Prothero wrote:
> 
>> The first thing I?ve noticed is that selecting objects in the Project
>> Browser and stack window is poor. In 7.1 versions and older, when I
>> clicked on an object on the stack window, it would hilite the
>> corresponding entry on the project browser. First off, I find that
>> clicking on different objects in the stack screen, it often refuses
>> to ?select? a new object until I click around. Secondly, when I click
>> on an object on the stack window, it should hilite in the project
>> browser. This is very convenient when developing, and it doesn?t seem
>> to happen in LC8.
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> Selected objects are now shown in the Project Browser with a highlighted border.  You can "zoom to" an object by right-clicking on it (on the stack) and selecting "Show in Project Browser".  This was an intentional change to make it slightly easier to not "lose your place" in the Project Browser view when you change the selected object in a stack with lots of controls.
> 
> I think I remember seeing a bug relating to selecting things, but I can't find it right now... please go ahead and file a bug report if you can reliably reproduce the problem.
> 
>> So, I?m still on LC8, but the IDE, nice and shiny new as it is, still
>> needs some work. Or, perhaps I just haven?t figured out all of its
>> new options yet.
> 
> Feedback is always appreciated.  Currently I'm finding that the LiveCode 8 IDE is actually a big improvement over the LiveCode 7 one for the things that I use it for (but I'm aware that I'm a *very* atypical user!)
> 
>                                             Peter
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Tue Mar  1 18:11:08 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 23:11:08 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>

I find I get the best results from export snapshot by using the following
form:

export snapshot from rect (the rect of tObjectLongID) of tObjectLongID ...

So you might try

export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "Chart") of widget "Chart" of
this card to tVar as PNG

If that doesn't give you the correct image then there's definitely a bug
somewhere.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:39 PM Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> Terence Heaford wrote:
>
> >> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:57, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
> >>
> >> subtract 22 from item 2 of tRect
> >>
> >> subtract 22 from item 4 of tRect
> >
> > As a Mac only person I really find it weird to keep having to make
> adjustments for the height of a menu.
>
> I dream of a day when I can enjoy that minor weirdness to support
> Ubuntu's global menu bar:
>
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10026
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 17:47:58 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 14:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
References: <EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>

indeed.. I do have an android phone!! 

And I read the GNU license for good,
and the FAQ's for good,
and some discussions

1) my personal conclusion reading these is that the assumption you make
about stack files falling under GPL is.. questionable, but.. arguable,
particularly if there are elements of interfaces buttons so on that would
link to the engine. And the more intricated these become e.g. with widgets,
the more linked this will be.

But, if the stack file contains only code, I doubt that can fall onto GPL.
The language itself is not copyrightable so a piece of code really is an
"output" of an editor program and as such is not covered by GPL so long I
can read!

Arguably, code dispersed in interface objects "sections" can also be
regarded as a kind of organization of code and thus treated as output of the
editor's program and thus not covered by the GPL.

2) are you saying do I rightly understand? that in order to be published by
apple a program has to be written FROM scratch up in a commercial version???
So that one cannot start up to write code in OS version and later switch to
commercial????  Are there any.. markers in the code?

In practice I really wonder if Apple would trace back the origin of the
origin of a code and make sure it was not "written" with GPL covered
program. if it did, I wonder what they say about all those lines written in
EMACS.

To me that argument is kind of "tir? par le cheveux" as we say in french.
(something like.. stretched out?).

I love my android phone...




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701790.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 18:14:57 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:14:57 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <5BA90050-B2E9-44EE-95A1-1F493E758A58@mac.com>
	<A380F82F-BB6D-416E-AE07-F49511718E69@appisle.net>
	<EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DoKY9OON9ssPF4UYRR6+O5Rezc3theBGFvR55cFu0Mz-g@mail.gmail.com>

Robert, as you conduct your research you should also learn about the
difference between Free Software and Open Source Software. In brief, Free
Software does special things for moral reasons; it is "right" that software
be liberated. Open Source Software does special things for pragmatic
reasons; it is "useful" that software be easy to use without asking
permission.

In both cases, you leverage copyright law. You cannot get away from
"restrictions" and still do Free or Open Source Software. The licenses are
used to restrict licensees from closing off the source of the software (to
a greater or lesser extent).

The GNU General Public License (GPL) is not an Open Source license, it is a
Free license. For reference, here is the Free Software Foundation's stance
on Open Source
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
"...a license designed specifically to protect freedom for all users of a
program."

The GNU has a lot of restrictions because it's specifically designed to
prevent anyone who uses Free software from acting in a way contradictory to
the ideals of the Free software movement. If you want the software, then
you have to follow the terms of the license. If you don't follow all of the
terms, you lose your license and open yourself to litigation. This threat
has teeth because Free software licenses have been upheld in court. The
restrictions are the point.

It doesn't help that Livecode always uses the term "Open Source" when
referring to the Community Edition. This could easily (and does) lead
people to assume the Community Edition has an Open Source license. It
doesn't, so if you're looking for pragmatic terms, rather than idealistic
terms, you're going to be confused.

With respect to your Question 2, the Indy license doesn't have to
specifically forbid a service where someone with a freer license compiles
code on your behalf. You can't build an actual Livecode application without
using the IDE, so if you used the Community IDE your application must
adhere to the GPL. The whole point of the GPL is to prevent "free" software
from being changed into "proprietary" software.

As for Apple, they don't want hobby developers releasing apps into their
system. Apple has zero interest in letting anyone play or experiment in
their closed ecosystem. Android is the Wild West you're looking for.
Or...maybe Windows phone? They might be desperate or ambivalent enough.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:

> The price rise in the commercial license has led me to try understand the
> Opens SOurce License, although I had always in my mind to keep with a
> commercial license ideally.
>
> And that leads to big surprises. I'll be doing a little bit of homework on
> that.
>
> *Question 1 :: is there somewhere a kind of WIKI place for live code whereI
> could start up open a license subject/page to be amended in a more
> structured and constructive way than that list???*
>
> Question 2 :: In that spirit, Peter TB Brett, it would be a contribution if
> could you throw in the source/ref of the terms & conditions of the indy
> license that forbids to provide the service described by J L. just above
> consisting in accompanying an author in the realm of iOs app publishing.
>
> Behing the great idea of a Open SOurce, it is surpassing to find so much
> barriers being built around it.
> And that does not seem totally realistic and respectful either.
>
> I find it hard and really surprising that such a service is not provided by
> somebody because I would find it really useful. Thinking about it, I
> actually have one project I worked upon that would greatly benefit from
> such
> a service as I just do not have time to dig and try out myself the iOs
> publishing. Frankly it just is not a thing you just do once as a hobbits to
> my view.
>
> On the indy side, i find it very intriguing that you can invest into a tool
> and be so tightly regulated as to what you can or not do.
>
> So far to go into the iOs model, you need :
> -- to do it yourself (if calling help from an indy is banned!)
> -- invest in the tool 1000 bucks, plus..
> -- invest time in trying out things with a stange spread out documentation
> here and there.
> -- deal with mister apple and the niceties & subtleties one regularly see
> in
> the forum..
>
> Mumm.. sounds great!!
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701775.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue Mar  1 18:18:00 2016
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 23:18:00 +0000
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40B29451-FA4B-4770-90F4-7CD2A5CF3CE8@iotecdigital.com>

You'd just eat whatever was in it and then complain you still didn't have a tin.

Bob S


On Mar 1, 2016, at 09:57 , RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>> wrote:

In our current development process, "Release Candidate" builds are exactly
what they say on the tin, i.e. once we release 8.0 RC 1, then 8.0 final
release will follow shortly after.

I'd like to register a formal complaint: when I downloaded the last release candidate I didn't get a tin.

Richmond.



From pete at lcsql.com  Tue Mar  1 18:23:18 2016
From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 23:23:18 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>

I've also noticed the first issue you mentioned.  In my case, it's not so
much that clicking an object doesn't select but trying to grab the handles
to resize an object has to be very accurate or the object is deselected.  I
guess I should enter a QCC report.

Don't use the Project Browser so can't comment on the second issue

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 2:40 PM Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 01/03/2016 22:28, William Prothero wrote:
>
> > The first thing I?ve noticed is that selecting objects in the Project
> > Browser and stack window is poor. In 7.1 versions and older, when I
> > clicked on an object on the stack window, it would hilite the
> > corresponding entry on the project browser. First off, I find that
> > clicking on different objects in the stack screen, it often refuses
> > to ?select? a new object until I click around. Secondly, when I click
> > on an object on the stack window, it should hilite in the project
> > browser. This is very convenient when developing, and it doesn?t seem
> > to happen in LC8.
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Selected objects are now shown in the Project Browser with a highlighted
> border.  You can "zoom to" an object by right-clicking on it (on the
> stack) and selecting "Show in Project Browser".  This was an intentional
> change to make it slightly easier to not "lose your place" in the
> Project Browser view when you change the selected object in a stack with
> lots of controls.
>
> I think I remember seeing a bug relating to selecting things, but I
> can't find it right now... please go ahead and file a bug report if you
> can reliably reproduce the problem.
>
> > So, I?m still on LC8, but the IDE, nice and shiny new as it is, still
> > needs some work. Or, perhaps I just haven?t figured out all of its
> > new options yet.
>
> Feedback is always appreciated.  Currently I'm finding that the LiveCode
> 8 IDE is actually a big improvement over the LiveCode 7 one for the
> things that I use it for (but I'm aware that I'm a *very* atypical user!)
>
>                                               Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From blueback09 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 18:26:36 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:26:36 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DrJo6ygZnTPLC1msrJe5Kc+SQg73CZXGNhfg=qRkjFdaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:

> indeed.. I do have an android phone!!
>
> And I read the GNU license for good,
> and the FAQ's for good,
> and some discussions
>
> 1) my personal conclusion reading these is that the assumption you make
> about stack files falling under GPL is.. questionable, but.. arguable,
> particularly if there are elements of interfaces buttons so on that would
> link to the engine. And the more intricated these become e.g. with widgets,
> the more linked this will be.
>
> But, if the stack file contains only code, I doubt that can fall onto GPL.
> The language itself is not copyrightable so a piece of code really is an
> "output" of an editor program and as such is not covered by GPL so long I
> can read!
>

If you sit down at a text editor and write a string of characters that the
Livecode engine happens to understand then you can put whatever copyright
license terms you want on it. So, I supposed in theory (disclaimer: IANAL)
if you wrote absolutely everything in plain script, and never included the
engine, you would still be able to apply your own license terms. But that
script can't be interpreted by anything other than the Livecode engine, so
you wouldn't be able to use it for anything. The value is in the engine,
which someone else wrote and allowed you to use as long as you follow their
rules. Since the rules they chose are the GPL, it's safe to assume there
isn't a legally sound way around it. The best you could hope for is a murky
grey area.


>
> Arguably, code dispersed in interface objects "sections" can also be
> regarded as a kind of organization of code and thus treated as output of
> the
> editor's program and thus not covered by the GPL.
>
> 2) are you saying do I rightly understand? that in order to be published by
> apple a program has to be written FROM scratch up in a commercial
> version???
> So that one cannot start up to write code in OS version and later switch to
> commercial????  Are there any.. markers in the code?
>
>
The number of question marks indicates that you're working your way through
the mourning process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model#Stages
There are whole cadres of lawyers who live in fear of the day they walk
into work and their boss calls them into a meeting because a random coder
accidentally included a piece of GPL software somewhere in the company's
proprietary product. GPL is not practical, it is idealistic. The authors
consider it a social movement. So it's not so much Apple's policy, it's
that the GPL is incompatible with anything vaguely proprietary, and of
course Apple is crazy proprietary.


> In practice I really wonder if Apple would trace back the origin of the
> origin of a code and make sure it was not "written" with GPL covered
> program. if it did, I wonder what they say about all those lines written in
> EMACS.
>
> To me that argument is kind of "tir? par le cheveux" as we say in french.
> (something like.. stretched out?).
>
> I love my android phone...
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701790.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 18:29:56 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:29:56 -0800
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D625F4.2070501@fourthworld.com>

Ali Lloyd wrote:

 > I find I get the best results from export snapshot by using the
 > following form:
 >
 > export snapshot from rect (the rect of tObjectLongID) of 
tObjectLongID ...
 >
 > So you might try
 >
 > export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "Chart") of widget 
"Chart" of
 > this card to tVar as PNG
 >
 > If that doesn't give you the correct image then there's definitely
 > a bug somewhere.

Ever since the option was added to take a screen shot directly from an 
object's rendered buffer I've been using that, since I get high-quality 
results and can also work with objects not currently on screen.

Does this not work with widgets?:

   export snapshot from widget "Chart" to tVar as PNG


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 18:11:24 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:11:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
References: <EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>

Thanks Richard.. that one a good example of.. "leonine" clause as we say in
France... 
as we say :: El diabolo hides in small details. 

Coming back to Livecode OS I'm really surprised that nobody seem to have
considered stacks as being not only programs but multimedia interactive
media, and the related legal stuff like copyright of these sources.

That is the basic in any book publishing   see :
https://authorservices.wiley.com/permissions%20guidelines%20for%20authors%20pdf.pdf
https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html

And the GPL inclusion of these elements cannot be governed by the GPL
license which only covers CODE.

Again if live code see it or interpret it differently please do say so.
Thanks.




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701796.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 18:40:44 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 10:40:44 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <B0A072E9-9EB9-4C79-9A3B-E2EAA734B7E8@appisle.net>

Robert did you read the quote I sent yesterday from the horses mouth? I very much doubt it would be profitable for anyone to take a different position than LiveCode Ltd on whether a stackFile is considered a plugin and therefore covered by the GPL. I have to say that I myself was unsure of this point and the quote from Mark was in response to my questioning. If you choose take a different position than the company my only advice would be to take legal council on the matter before you go ahead and test the waters.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Mar 2016, at 9:47 AM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:
> 
> But, if the stack file contains only code, I doubt that can fall onto GPL.
> The language itself is not copyrightable so a piece of code really is an
> "output" of an editor program and as such is not covered by GPL so long I
> can read!
> 
> Arguably, code dispersed in interface objects "sections" can also be
> regarded as a kind of organization of code and thus treated as output of the
> editor's program and thus not covered by the GPL.



From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 18:42:53 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 10:42:53 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82DrJo6ygZnTPLC1msrJe5Kc+SQg73CZXGNhfg=qRkjFdaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CA+S82DrJo6ygZnTPLC1msrJe5Kc+SQg73CZXGNhfg=qRkjFdaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B00DF3B9-B15A-4204-9C71-C821C150FC57@appisle.net>

I don't think that's true. The Wordpress plugin author doesn't use Wordpress to actually type out the code yet it is still covered by the GPL.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Mar 2016, at 10:26 AM, Matt Maier <blueback09 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> So, I supposed in theory (disclaimer: IANAL)
> if you wrote absolutely everything in plain script, and never included the
> engine, you would still be able to apply your own license terms.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 18:50:51 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:50:51 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>

Robert Mann wrote:

 > 1) my personal conclusion reading these is that the assumption you
 > make about stack files falling under GPL is.. questionable, but..
 > arguable, particularly if there are elements of interfaces buttons
 > so on that would link to the engine. And the more intricated these
 > become e.g. with widgets, the more linked this will be.
 >
 > But, if the stack file contains only code, I doubt that can fall
 > onto GPL. The language itself is not copyrightable so a piece of
 > code really is an "output" of an editor program and as such is not
 > covered by GPL so long I can read!
 >
 > Arguably, code dispersed in interface objects "sections" can also be
 > regarded as a kind of organization of code and thus treated as output
 > of the editor's program and thus not covered by the GPL.

A license is a way to express the wishes of a creator of an original 
work over how the work may be used and/or distributed.

The GPL is one embodiment people can choose to express a desire to share 
their work under the condition that works derived from it are shared 
similarly.

The intent is pretty straightforward, and can become complex only when 
one invests time seeking ways to comply only with the letter of the 
license while obviating the intentions of the creator of the work.

While possibly survivable in court depending on the specific 
circumstances, where the GPL has been tested in court it has prevailed, 
and where it hasn't such pursuits are at best generally considered uncool.

When pondering edge cases not yet tested in court, my own personal 
decision is to err on the side of honoring the creator's intentions.

I wrote a note here a couple years ago about such an edge case with 
regard to the Joomla project, and if these sorts of things are of 
interest you may find the links included there useful, esp. the one for 
the Drupal project with regard to their interpretation of derivative works:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2013-December/196463.html>


 > 2) are you saying do I rightly understand? that in order to be
 > published by apple a program has to be written FROM scratch up
 > in a commercial version???
 > So that one cannot start up to write code in OS version and later
 > switch to commercial????  Are there any.. markers in the code?

"Commercial" is not relevant here; the GPL expresses no opinion about 
cost.  The distinction is "proprietary", which may be non-commercial 
just as GPL-governed works may be sold.

As Mark Waddingham explained earlier, the issue with Apple's app store 
is that it limits the number of downloads of an app by an account, and 
in the view of the authors of the GPL this conflicts with the GPL's 
freedom granted to the user.

The code needs to be licenses in ways that do not include GPL-governed 
elements.  Whether sold or not sold as part of a commercial venture is 
not a part of this.

A license is a way to express the wishes of a creator of an original 
work over how the work may be used and/or distributed.

If you wish to apply a license to your media separate from your stack 
files, LiveCode provides many ways to do that and doing so may clarify 
the relationship between them.

The owners of the copyright here has expressed their intentions with the 
GPL unambiguously with regard to stacks.

What others choose to do is up to them. And no matter that I tend to 
interpret software licenses conservatively in accordance with 
commonly-acceepted conventions, I'm not an attorney and nothing I've 
written can be construed as legal advice.

For me life is much simpler:  when I want to share with downstream 
provisions for sharing I choose GPL, if not I choose something else.

This lets me spend more time on code.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 18:24:14 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:24:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82DoKY9OON9ssPF4UYRR6+O5Rezc3theBGFvR55cFu0Mz-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EF154E2A-3045-4952-A582-3A26E97CE8FC@mac.com>
	<56D50243.6070806@hyperactivesw.com>
	<082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CA+S82DoKY9OON9ssPF4UYRR6+O5Rezc3theBGFvR55cFu0Mz-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1456874654821-4701800.post@n4.nabble.com>

But.. but.. ??????? 

<< With respect to your Question 2, the Indy license doesn't have to 
specifically forbid a service where someone with a freer license compiles 
code on your behalf. You can't build an actual Livecode application without 
using the IDE, so if you used the Community IDE your application must 
adhere to the GPL. The whole point of the GPL is to prevent "free" software 
from being changed into "proprietary" software. >>

This seems kind of absurd.; and yes totally.. unrealistic!!

So far : I have both a commercial and a a Community Edition (yes no more
open source!),
and I can write on one and then open and keep writing on the other.
I mean, there is no way to identify the tool used!!!

Besides, dual licensing of the same work is fine. That one leaves me.. dead
in kafka"s chaos!!




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701800.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  1 19:08:35 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:08:35 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 5:23 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
> Don't use the Project Browser so can't comment on the second issue

It's confusing, Ali had to explain it to me. I still mostly use the App 
Browser because I need the column layout.

In the Project Browser, the dotted selections are the objects selected 
on the card. You can't alter dotted-line selections from within the PB, 
you need to open the property inspector for that.

The hilited lines are selections you've made directly in the PB. The 
icons at the bottom act on those only. So you can click the icons at the 
bottom to manage the PB-selections (the hilited lines) to resize or 
align. The card-selected objects (dotted lines) won't change. If you 
want the card selections to be acted on, you need to manually re-select 
them in the PB so their lines are hilited as well as dotted.

The idea was to be able to select things in the PB that may not be in 
view, even on totally different cards or stacks, and be able to work 
with them without going there. Hilited lines indicate which objects will 
be affected. This could be useful. On the other hand, there is now a 
disconnect between visible selections on a card and objects you can act 
on within the PB.

Selections also act slightly differently in the Property Inspector. It 
used to be you could shift-click several objects and then double-click 
any one of them to open the multi-object inspector. That doesn't work 
now. Instead you double-click one object on the card to open its 
inspector and then shift-click objects to add more. That causes the 
alignment icon to appear at the top left of the inspector, and the other 
icons will operate on all the selected objects.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 19:24:47 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:24:47 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82DoKY9OON9ssPF4UYRR6+O5Rezc3theBGFvR55cFu0Mz-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82DoKY9OON9ssPF4UYRR6+O5Rezc3theBGFvR55cFu0Mz-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D632CF.4000005@fourthworld.com>

Matt Maier wrote:

 > Robert, as you conduct your research you should also learn about the
 > difference between Free Software and Open Source Software. In brief,
 > Free Software does special things for moral reasons; it is "right"
 > that software be liberated. Open Source Software does special things
 > for pragmatic reasons; it is "useful" that software be easy to use
 > without asking permission.

While that accurately reflects the motivations of Richard Stallman and 
others who create and promote "Free software" as they've described in 
their own writings, motivations are separate from outcomes.   Whether I 
buy flowers for my wife because I think she's pretty or because I'm 
trying to apologize, either way the florist makes $60. :)

It's fully possible for others to enjoy the same outcomes without the 
same philosophical motivation.

All carp are fish, but not all fish are carp, and not all who choose the 
GPL are quite as religious about it as others, or see it as any sort of 
moral imperative at all.

For myself, and many I know, the GPL is a purely practical means to an 
end:  a good choice when one wants to share code both directly and also 
downstream.

I participate in many software projects, and some of the choose GPL.  As 
much as I admire Mr. Stallman personally and professionally I disagree 
with his view of a moral imperative in choosing GPL.  But that 
disagreement doesn't prevent me from choosing it myself, or having 
enjoyed his company over dinner.  Vive le difference.

Like the classical Chinese painting "Three Men at Tiger Brook", we can 
travel together even if we're adhere to different philosophies.



 > The GNU General Public License (GPL) is not an Open Source license,
 > it is a Free license. For reference, here is the Free Software
 > Foundation's stance on Open Source
 > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
 > "...a license designed specifically to protect freedom for all users
 > of a program."
...
 > It doesn't help that Livecode always uses the term "Open Source" when
 > referring to the Community Edition. This could easily (and does) lead
 > people to assume the Community Edition has an Open Source license. It
 > doesn't, so if you're looking for pragmatic terms, rather than
 > idealistic terms, you're going to be confused.

With all due respect to both yourself and Mr. Stallman, what you wrote 
there is correct in terms of his very specific language preferences but 
not necessarily reflective of common usage.

We have a bug in the English language:  we have only "free", but Latin 
has "gratis" distinct from "libre".

So when we refer to "free software", we often have to add 
"free-as-in-freedom" or "free-as-in-beer" to distinguish what we mean.

It's quite true that Mr. Stallman has said many times that he feels Eric 
Raymond's efforts to promote "open source" are misleading, and perhaps 
even "immoral", and strongly prefers "free" to distinguish GPL-governed 
works.

It's also true that when I say "Ubuntu" Mr. Stallman would prefer (and 
not entirely without good reason) that I say "Ubuntu GNU/Linux".

But that's what happens with language:  where phrases are cumbersome 
they evolve into more casual colloquial forms over time.

Today "open source" is often used to describe all software whose source 
is both available to the recipient of the software and where 
modification is explicitly allowed.

It can sometimes be more correct to distinguish between GPL-style 
licenses and other more permissive licenses, but in common usage the 
more frequent distinguishing phrase is "copy-left" for GPL-style terms, 
those with strong downstream inheritance.

The bigger distinction is between proprietary licenses on the one hand 
and the full range of free/open licenses on the other.  So while the 
distinction between "free" and "open" licenses can be useful in specific 
contexts, I see no mistake in using "open source" as a more generic 
superset of free/open licenses.  Indeed, I see it used that way every 
day by a wide range of authoritative writers (no doubt to the annoyance 
of Mr. Stallman, but hey, colloquialism happens).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 18:58:01 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:58:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>
References: <082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>

Thanks for your piper mail link. I found your article very informative (and a
breeze to read!).

I'll retain that what's actually written in the GPL license.. is like toilet
paper
What counts is the creators position... Fine. 

And that'll close the subject of the status of the stack files for me too.
//

== Remains to be cleared the position vis a vis content (audio, video, text,
images) what is the position of the creators? Can it be clarified? Did they
mean that all content be, in their interpretation, included in the GPL? Is
that written up somewhere in a specific proviso or just "thought" ?

== And lastly, the kafkaesque position vis a vis the use of both tools for
the same code. In  practice, can I code part of an application in the
community and part of it in the closed IDE. If not, please do precise if
there are markers somewhere that are used to track the IDE used.

Many thanks, I hope we can close this (long!) thread soon with practical
answers to these questions.
Robert



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701803.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 19:46:09 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:46:09 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>
	<1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <C1D7AE08-EA14-4D0B-A955-460F14D8FA53@appisle.net>

Mark Waddingham covered this in his post:

Whilst the GPL can be used to cover content there are more (GPL compatible) suitable ones. The main problem with applying the GPL to content is deciding what constitutes the 'source code'. Indeed, I believe there is an FAQ on the FSF site about such things but I can't find it at the moment (slow internet connection on a train!). Generally the Creative Commons style licenses are far better for content - you just need to pick a variant which is definitely compatible with the GPL (CC/0, for example).

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Mar 2016, at 10:58 AM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:
> 
> == Remains to be cleared the position vis a vis content (audio, video, text,
> images) what is the position of the creators? Can it be clarified? Did they
> mean that all content be, in their interpretation, included in the GPL? Is
> that written up somewhere in a specific proviso or just "thought" ?



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 19:55:49 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:55:49 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>

Robert Mann wrote:
 > Coming back to Livecode OS I'm really surprised that nobody seem to have
 > considered stacks as being not only programs but multimedia interactive
 > media, and the related legal stuff like copyright of these sources.
 >
 > That is the basic in any book publishing   see :
 > 
https://authorservices.wiley.com/permissions%20guidelines%20for%20authors%20pdf.pdf
 > https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html
 >
 > And the GPL inclusion of these elements cannot be governed by the GPL
 > license which only covers CODE.
 >
 > Again if live code see it or interpret it differently please do say so.

I suppose if your goal was to write LiveCode scripts and publish them as 
a printed volume for your coffee table that might make a very good analogy.

More commonly code is used to execute instructions on a computer, and 
for that it needs to intimately co-mingle in memory with the LiveCode 
engine.

My earlier post I'd linked to previously was perhaps a bit long - let me 
share the most relevant portion from the Drupal License FAQ page:

     "If I write a module or theme, do I have to license it under
      the GPL?
      Yes. Drupal modules and themes are a derivative work of Drupal.
      If you distribute them, you must do so under the terms of the
      GPL version 2 or later."
<https://drupal.org/licensing/faq/#q7>

The sole copyright owners of LiveCode have expressed their intention 
that stack files are considered "derivative works", and choosing the GPL 
to express that intention seems in line with the collective counsel at 
the Wordpress, Joomla, and Drupal projects.

If you're able to convince counsel on those projects to change their 
interpretation of the GPL please let us know.



 > So far : I have both a commercial and a a Community Edition (yes no
 > more open source!),
 > and I can write on one and then open and keep writing on the other.
 > I mean, there is no way to identify the tool used!!!

Yes, as with proprietary software it's often physically possible to 
circumvent international copyright law with unauthorized distribution, 
just as it's possible to sell a stolen television at a pawn shop. 
Indeed, a few Wifi router vendors have found themselves in court for 
using a modified Linux kernel for which they did not share their source. 
Piracy comes in many forms.

But I believe there's a mandate on this list to avoid discussions that 
might promote illegal activity, so I'll not pursue this further beyond 
noting this:

The proprietary engine is not a binary copy of the Community Edition 
engine, as it contains code to encrypt stacks.  As such, while nothing 
can stop someone from pirating any software, if found it would be 
trivial to demonstrate in court which engine was used.


 > Besides, dual licensing of the same work is fine. That one leaves
 > me.. dead in kafka"s chaos!!

Again, not all that deep:  under the nearly-globally-recognized Berne 
Convention, the creator of an original work has ownership of that work 
at the moment of creation, and has sole authority over how that work may 
be used and/or distributed.

If you wish to write something similar to LiveCode from your own C 
source, you would own the work and have sole authority over its 
distribution terms, which may be under a single license, or a dozen, as 
you choose.

But when you create a work derived from another's, your ownership is 
limited to the portions you created, and may have further limitations 
depending on the terms of the software used to develop and run the work.

LiveCode stack files can be distributed under a wide range of possible 
licenses when created with the proprietary-licensed LiveCode engine, 
provided of course the terms of whichever license you choose are 
compatible with the terms of the LiveCode proprietary EULA.

For example, the MetaCard IDE was released under MIT License by the 
original inventor of the engine, Dr. Scott Raney, and many of us 
contributed to its maintenance and enhancement for years.

But you do not have source code to the proprietary engine, so it would 
not be possible to use any license that requires you to distribute the 
complete source code for an application.

If your original work is a stack file and it was made with the 
proprietary LC engine, you could conceivably make it available under MIT 
license, Apache, and your own proprietary license as well, and let your 
users choose the license they feel best meets their needs.

But if you want to include the engine, you'll need the source.

And the source is only publicly available under one license, the GPL.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From blueback09 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 20:01:33 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 17:01:33 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D632CF.4000005@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+S82DoKY9OON9ssPF4UYRR6+O5Rezc3theBGFvR55cFu0Mz-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D632CF.4000005@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82Dpo6iz-MxQ61tU5LNFYenV-mxa0uos-rYASA3pPqYw_+A@mail.gmail.com>

Unless Livecode modified the GPL it's still a Free software license,
written and interpreted by the FSF. Calling it Open Source is more
colloquial, and clearly doesn't cause problems in the vast majority of
cases. But, in this case, the inaccuracy is causing the confusion.

It's worth noting that most of the repositories in Github don't have any
license at all. That's not colloquial, that's just lazy, but that also
doesn't cause a problem in the vast majority of cases. Still, when there is
a problem the only way to resolve it is to be more specific.

I feel like it's important for people working through the nuances of FOSS
to understand the intent behind the different licenses. It can be
disorienting to think that everybody is just sharing stuff and then to run
into the seemingly harsh restrictions of the Free software subset. Open
Source is pretty inviting. Free places stick limits on who is invited. It's
confusing to people who haven't studied it because "open source" literally
means open up the source from which the object was derived. However,
"free/libre" doesn't mean make it as free as possible, it means make it
impossible for anyone to ever make it un-free. So the "free/libre" label
actually brings along MORE restrictions.

Livecode picked a Free software license for the Community edition,
signaling that they want their community to adhere to the intent of Free
software. Part of the reason (not the whole reason, but part of it) I
upgraded to Indy was so that I could cast off the restrictions imposed by
the intent of Free software.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> Matt Maier wrote:
>
> > Robert, as you conduct your research you should also learn about the
> > difference between Free Software and Open Source Software. In brief,
> > Free Software does special things for moral reasons; it is "right"
> > that software be liberated. Open Source Software does special things
> > for pragmatic reasons; it is "useful" that software be easy to use
> > without asking permission.
>
> While that accurately reflects the motivations of Richard Stallman and
> others who create and promote "Free software" as they've described in their
> own writings, motivations are separate from outcomes.   Whether I buy
> flowers for my wife because I think she's pretty or because I'm trying to
> apologize, either way the florist makes $60. :)
>
> It's fully possible for others to enjoy the same outcomes without the same
> philosophical motivation.
>
> All carp are fish, but not all fish are carp, and not all who choose the
> GPL are quite as religious about it as others, or see it as any sort of
> moral imperative at all.
>
> For myself, and many I know, the GPL is a purely practical means to an
> end:  a good choice when one wants to share code both directly and also
> downstream.
>
> I participate in many software projects, and some of the choose GPL.  As
> much as I admire Mr. Stallman personally and professionally I disagree with
> his view of a moral imperative in choosing GPL.  But that disagreement
> doesn't prevent me from choosing it myself, or having enjoyed his company
> over dinner.  Vive le difference.
>
> Like the classical Chinese painting "Three Men at Tiger Brook", we can
> travel together even if we're adhere to different philosophies.
>
>
>
> > The GNU General Public License (GPL) is not an Open Source license,
> > it is a Free license. For reference, here is the Free Software
> > Foundation's stance on Open Source
> > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
> > "...a license designed specifically to protect freedom for all users
> > of a program."
> ...
> > It doesn't help that Livecode always uses the term "Open Source" when
> > referring to the Community Edition. This could easily (and does) lead
> > people to assume the Community Edition has an Open Source license. It
> > doesn't, so if you're looking for pragmatic terms, rather than
> > idealistic terms, you're going to be confused.
>
> With all due respect to both yourself and Mr. Stallman, what you wrote
> there is correct in terms of his very specific language preferences but not
> necessarily reflective of common usage.
>
> We have a bug in the English language:  we have only "free", but Latin has
> "gratis" distinct from "libre".
>
> So when we refer to "free software", we often have to add
> "free-as-in-freedom" or "free-as-in-beer" to distinguish what we mean.
>
> It's quite true that Mr. Stallman has said many times that he feels Eric
> Raymond's efforts to promote "open source" are misleading, and perhaps even
> "immoral", and strongly prefers "free" to distinguish GPL-governed works.
>
> It's also true that when I say "Ubuntu" Mr. Stallman would prefer (and not
> entirely without good reason) that I say "Ubuntu GNU/Linux".
>
> But that's what happens with language:  where phrases are cumbersome they
> evolve into more casual colloquial forms over time.
>
> Today "open source" is often used to describe all software whose source is
> both available to the recipient of the software and where modification is
> explicitly allowed.
>
> It can sometimes be more correct to distinguish between GPL-style licenses
> and other more permissive licenses, but in common usage the more frequent
> distinguishing phrase is "copy-left" for GPL-style terms, those with strong
> downstream inheritance.
>
> The bigger distinction is between proprietary licenses on the one hand and
> the full range of free/open licenses on the other.  So while the
> distinction between "free" and "open" licenses can be useful in specific
> contexts, I see no mistake in using "open source" as a more generic
> superset of free/open licenses.  Indeed, I see it used that way every day
> by a wide range of authoritative writers (no doubt to the annoyance of Mr.
> Stallman, but hey, colloquialism happens).
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk  Tue Mar  1 20:06:42 2016
From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 01:06:42 +0000
Subject: Cleaning out the profile menu in Standalone settings
Message-ID: <DUB114-W109E097E576E4B2C47B465EDBC0@phx.gbl>

In the standalone settings...
Under the 'Basic Application Settings' there is the 'Profile' popUpMenu

I have noticed that there are profiles in there that are way out of date
Anyone know how I can clean up this menu and just show what is current ?
 		 	   		  

From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar  1 20:07:35 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 17:07:35 -0800
Subject: LC8 DP15 error message?
Message-ID: <1508D9FC-0D9A-442A-B6FA-C8C2B0200C20@earthednet.org>

Folks:
I?m getting a long list of lines in the message box when I run my app. I?m creating text boxes in code. Among a lot of the lines, there is:

ERROR: Error when sending message ideNewControl:

Would this be an IDE bug, or mine? My app works as expected, so ??
Bill

Is this something I should be concerned about? Is it an IDE error, or mine?

From top down, here are a few of the lines:

ERROR: Error when sending message ideNewControl:

89,2654,1

69,2654,1,graphic id 74731 of group id 69783 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/prothero/Oceanography Projects/LiveCode-RunRev Projects/PT_Explorer Projects/EarthExplorer_CurrentWkg/appStacks/datastacks/Map Display.livecode"

676,2654,1

241,2654,1,revIDEControlProperties

353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"

219,1788,8,revIDEControlProperties

465,1788,8

241,1788,1,addControlToProjectBrowser

353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"

573,118,1,addControlToProjectBrowser

253,118,1

253,118,1

241,113,1,ideNewControl

353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"

675,1733,1,ideNewControl




From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  1 19:54:30 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:54:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Future of LiveCode in Education
In-Reply-To: <56D56237.9050509@gmail.com>
References: <1532da947b3-7bab-7365@webprd-a84.mail.aol.com>
	<BA793FE8-1172-4915-994A-43C7095D6ABE@siphonophore.com>
	<56D51563.7030109@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d5201f.7340c54.2377@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<74C4D043-5077-4EEE-A7BB-A63504EB95EE@gmail.com>
	<56D56237.9050509@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1456880070183-4701810.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Richmond


RM wrote
> [SNIP]
> In 1993 I ended up in a married student "cave" at Southern Illinois 
> University with an LC 475 on the desk in front of me and a screaming 7 
> month year old next to me (my wife had a Fulbright scholarship);
> Hypercard probably prevented me from battering the baby to death!!!!!

Wow! HyperCard save lives too. :D

Last line of your message, reads
like an O'Henry short story:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._Henry

How many language teachers knows that they could 
use LiveCode to teach hypertext and creative writing?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221267074_Hypertext_and_Creative_Writing

Alejandro




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Re-The-Future-of-LiveCode-in-Education-tp4701642p4701810.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From paul at livecode.org  Tue Mar  1 20:29:41 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 17:29:41 -0800
Subject: LC8 DP15 error message?
In-Reply-To: <1508D9FC-0D9A-442A-B6FA-C8C2B0200C20@earthednet.org>
References: <1508D9FC-0D9A-442A-B6FA-C8C2B0200C20@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <F24818A2-0B02-44C1-BABC-349156CC5B29@livecode.org>

I?ve just reported a similar problem.  Bug# 17048 [ http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17048 ] Please feel free to add your comments.

Paul

> On Mar 1, 2016, at 5:07 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> I?m getting a long list of lines in the message box when I run my app. I?m creating text boxes in code. Among a lot of the lines, there is:
> 
> ERROR: Error when sending message ideNewControl:
> 
> Would this be an IDE bug, or mine? My app works as expected, so ??
> Bill
> 
> Is this something I should be concerned about? Is it an IDE error, or mine?
> 
> From top down, here are a few of the lines:
> 
> ERROR: Error when sending message ideNewControl:
> 
> 89,2654,1
> 
> 69,2654,1,graphic id 74731 of group id 69783 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/prothero/Oceanography Projects/LiveCode-RunRev Projects/PT_Explorer Projects/EarthExplorer_CurrentWkg/appStacks/datastacks/Map Display.livecode"
> 
> 676,2654,1
> 
> 241,2654,1,revIDEControlProperties
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"
> 
> 219,1788,8,revIDEControlProperties
> 
> 465,1788,8
> 
> 241,1788,1,addControlToProjectBrowser
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
> 
> 573,118,1,addControlToProjectBrowser
> 
> 253,118,1
> 
> 253,118,1
> 
> 241,113,1,ideNewControl
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
> 
> 675,1733,1,ideNewControl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 20:57:10 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 17:57:10 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dpo6iz-MxQ61tU5LNFYenV-mxa0uos-rYASA3pPqYw_+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82Dpo6iz-MxQ61tU5LNFYenV-mxa0uos-rYASA3pPqYw_+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D64876.9010508@fourthworld.com>

Matt Maier wrote:

 > Unless Livecode modified the GPL it's still a Free software license,
 > written and interpreted by the FSF. Calling it Open Source is more
 > colloquial, and clearly doesn't cause problems in the vast majority of
 > cases. But, in this case, the inaccuracy is causing the confusion.

I think the confusion in this long thread is evidently broader that just 
the specific downstream aspects of the GPL. :)

But yes, the distinction is sometimes useful.  For myself, acknowledging 
how broadly "open source" is used to describe the superset, when I need 
to distinguish GPL-like provisions I tend to use "copy-left".

I'm from California.  Here we say "soda", while my friends from Iowa say 
"pop".  When discussing the differences between Glenlivet and Pepsi, 
whether I refer to the Pepsi as "soda" or "pop" is the smaller concern. 
  Either way, the reader knows they'll be able to drive after polishing 
off a bottle. :)


 > It's worth noting that most of the repositories in Github don't have
 > any license at all. That's not colloquial, that's just lazy, but that
 > also doesn't cause a problem in the vast majority of cases.

Au contraire, mon ami - it's been a problem for years:
<http://www.zdnet.com/article/github-improves-open-source-licensing-polices/>

That is, it's a problem if the code is useful. If the code is trivial 
nobody cares, but when it does something useful then having no declared 
license is a poison pill for both use and contribution.  No sane person 
would commit their business to using code that has no disclosed license 
terms.

That's an ongoing challenge with online venues like mailing lists and 
forums, and for myself when there's no declaration I only use code where 
I know the person who posted it and have a reasonably good understanding 
of their intentions.

When I don't know the poster's intentions I follow the old rule, "when 
in doubt leave it out."


 > I feel like it's important for people working through the nuances
 > of FOSS to understand the intent behind the different licenses. It
 > can be disorienting to think that everybody is just sharing stuff
 > and then to run into the seemingly harsh restrictions of the Free
 > software subset. Open Source is pretty inviting. Free places stick
 > limits on who is invited. It's confusing to people who haven't
 > studied it because "open source" literally means open up the source
 > from which the object was derived.

Definitely every bit as valuable to study as the proprietary licenses we 
encounter.  All legal documents require time to review and asses, and 
discuss their implications.

I won't hold it against if you use "free", but I'll still use "copy-left".

Just fergawsakes call it "Ubuntu GNU/Linux!" :)


 > However, "free/libre" doesn't mean make it as free as possible,
 > it means make it impossible for anyone to ever make it un-free.
 > So the "free/libre" label actually brings along MORE restrictions.

That last sentence is an excellent example of why study is useful:

What you refer to as "restrictions" the authors of the GPL call "freedoms".

Both are descriptive, and indeed describe the same things, so who am I 
to say which is best?

I try to use value-neutral terms when discussing such things, sometimes 
using phrases like "downstream provisions".

I have no problem with "requirements" myself, but I am more apt to use 
"freedom" than "viral": if nothing else "freedom" is not an inherently 
offensive word (kinda nice, actually) but many have expressed that they 
find "viral" offensive when it's applied to GPL terms, connoting a 
disease while many who choose it feel it's a cure.

I just try to be respective of local cultures in my travels.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 21:01:49 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:01:49 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D6498D.6080303@fourthworld.com>

Robert Man wrote:
 > == And lastly, the kafkaesque position vis a vis the use of both
 > tools for the same code. In  practice, can I code part of an
 > application in the community and part of it in the closed IDE.

The GPL is a distribution license; it doesn't affect anything you do in 
your home or office, and only comes into play when software is distributed.

In fact, one of the nice features of the GPL is that it very explicitly 
states that if you share software under that license you can't restrict 
the use of the software in any way.  This freedom is often 
under-appreciated but very powerful, as it prevents any form of 
discrimination and allows everyone to study and learn from code, and to 
modify it for themselves however they like.

So here we're only looking at cases where you distribute something to 
others.

And since the application needs an engine to bind to in order to run, 
the license of the engine used at build time would determine the license 
options.

Kevin's said here before that you can freely use the Community Edition 
to develop in, and would only truly need to acquire a license for the 
proprietary engine when you're ready to deploy the app and wish to do so 
under a license other than GPL.

For other questions the FAQ has some good info - see "Can you give me 
some examples of where I do and don?t need a commercial license?"
<https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/>


 > If not, please do precise if there are markers somewhere that
 > are used to track the IDE used.

Markers are for enforcement, and enforcement is only needed when there 
is circumvention.

I have no interest in circumventing the intentions of the copyright 
owner of LiveCode, so it's never occurred to me to look for markers.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 20:58:16 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 17:58:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
References: <082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>

RE : issue : does livecode consider that all illustrative material & text etc
in a stack to their view fall under GPL

<< I suppose if your goal was to write LiveCode scripts and publish them as 
a printed volume for your coffee table that might make a very good analogy.
>>

No, in my case I've got a project that is related to "publishing" some music
practice apps.
So cards that contain audio elements, and copyright material like songs,
music scores
and also pictures, videos & texts (subject to copyright).

So all coding would be available to all of course. But these copyrighted
elements will not be GPL compatible because as simple as it is french law
does not allow an author to push away his copyrights.

Hence the question above. Does livecode "interprets" all contents as being
per se GPL work when "attached" to a stack in the community version?

And I'm sure that the answer will interest more than one person. And for me
I just have to know where I put my feet. it' not just for the sake of making
a fuss about something, and I thank you for.. getting the feel of the air on
the subject. We have to know that.





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701814.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Mar  1 21:32:16 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:32:16 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56D650B0.4030009@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/01/2016 04:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/1/2016 5:23 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
>> Don't use the Project Browser so can't comment on the second issue
>
> It's confusing, Ali had to explain it to me. I still mostly use the App
> Browser because I need the column layout.
>
> In the Project Browser, the dotted selections are the objects selected
> on the card. You can't alter dotted-line selections from within the PB,
> you need to open the property inspector for that.
>
> The hilited lines are selections you've made directly in the PB. The
> icons at the bottom act on those only. So you can click the icons at the
> bottom to manage the PB-selections (the hilited lines) to resize or
> align. The card-selected objects (dotted lines) won't change. If you
> want the card selections to be acted on, you need to manually re-select
> them in the PB so their lines are hilited as well as dotted.
>
> The idea was to be able to select things in the PB that may not be in
> view, even on totally different cards or stacks, and be able to work
> with them without going there. Hilited lines indicate which objects will
> be affected. This could be useful. On the other hand, there is now a
> disconnect between visible selections on a card and objects you can act
> on within the PB.
>
> Selections also act slightly differently in the Property Inspector. It
> used to be you could shift-click several objects and then double-click
> any one of them to open the multi-object inspector. That doesn't work
> now. Instead you double-click one object on the card to open its
> inspector and then shift-click objects to add more. That causes the
> alignment icon to appear at the top left of the inspector, and the other
> icons will operate on all the selected objects.
>

I may have to print that out and hang it on the wall.
Wow - the IDE used to be somewhat intuitive.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 21:10:08 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:10:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D6498D.6080303@fourthworld.com>
References: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>
	<1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D6498D.6080303@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1456884608134-4701816.post@n4.nabble.com>

Ok, fine.. that is.. somehow more "logical" !!

So that leads to 2 practical consequences :

1) what seems to be important is the timing of making publicly available
some code :
-- if you "release" some code under GPL for testing out an app
-- and than later on turn to the closed IDE to produce a closed version in
view of a commercial development
..if I get it right, you're done! bad choice :: GPL infringement!

2) if you do not make it public, than when you're ready, you're free to turn
for help to an indie/pro developer to finish it up and prepare it for iOS
launch under whatever license suites you.

Conclusion :: with the community version, be secretive if in view of any
commercial application and only share  code you really wish to.. share!
There will be NO return.

So that closes that issue for me // 



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701816.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 21:41:45 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 13:41:45 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <688CB508-A57B-4780-AF8A-B9C591C2705F@appisle.net>


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 12:58 PM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:
> 
> So all coding would be available to all of course. But these copyrighted
> elements will not be GPL compatible because as simple as it is french law
> does not allow an author to push away his copyrights.

Perhaps you are confused between copyright and licensing here? The copyright owners of the content (if they are not you) need to license the content to you under a GPL compatible license so that you can then include their work in your GPL compatible application. They and you still retain copyright but the license permits the receiver to modify and redistribute the work.

Cheers

Monte

From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 21:54:14 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 13:54:14 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456884608134-4701816.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>
	<1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D6498D.6080303@fourthworld.com>
	<1456884608134-4701816.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <2ED09962-EBA2-4C7E-8474-7BA45E861871@appisle.net>


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 1:10 PM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:
> 
> 2) if you do not make it public, than when you're ready, you're free to turn
> for help to an indie/pro developer to finish it up and prepare it for iOS
> launch under whatever license suites you.

I refer you to clauses 5 b, d, f and h of the LiveCode License Agreement for Indy and Business. This sentence in 5b is particularly relevant "For the avoidance of doubt, You may not use the Licensed Edition to create or distribute Created Software for other users who are using the Community Edition of LiveCode.?

Here?s all of clause 5 for your reading pleasure:

5. NO COMPETITION

a) The clauses in this section are intended to prevent you from using the Licensed Edition to release Created Software or engage in activity using the Licensed Edition, that is directly damaging to our business. Such damage may result from any activity that reduces, or negates, the requirement for other users of any edition of LiveCode, including the Community Edition, to purchase a Licensed Edition in order to enjoy the same benefits that you enjoy under this agreement.

b) The ability to create and distribute Created Software is intended for You to use with applications You have created or been substantially involved in developing. You are prohibited from using the Licensed Edition to build standalone applications for others where You are not the author of the application, or confer on others the ability to build standalone applications by any means whatsoever. For the avoidance of doubt, You may not use the Licensed Edition to create or distribute Created Software for other users who are using the Community Edition of LiveCode. This clause is intended to prevent You from providing any facility or service which would reduce or eliminate the requirement for other LiveCode users, including users of the Community Edition, to purchase a Licensed Edition to distribute their own Created Software.

c) You are prohibited from creating or distributing Created Software to be used and marketed as a generic rapid application development tool. Any Created Software that does not involve any sort of script editing will not be considered prohibited.

d) You are prohibited from using the Licensed Edition to password protect or otherwise secure LiveCode stacks substantially created by anyone other than You.

e) You are prohibited from creating or distributing Created Software with the primary purpose of being used as a generic Player application for Created Software built with any edition of LiveCode. This clause is intended to prevent you from conferring the ability to others to distribute closed-source applications, including stacks, without purchasing a license.

f) Irrespective of the specific exclusions listed in this section, you may not invent, contrive or enter into any form of business that utilizes your Licensed Edition to reduce or eliminate the need for any other entity to purchase a Licensed Edition. Selling licenses is the core of our business and you accept that your use of the Created Software will not be used, intentionally or otherwise, to undermine that business.

g) Irrespective of the clauses above, any Created Software that you produce that requires the end user to purchase a Licensed Edition of the LiveCode Software will never be considered as being prohibited.

h) In the event that either you or LiveCode Ltd determines that your software, or a service you provide, is in violation of any of the clauses above, you must withdraw the Created Software or service immediately. It is agreed that engaging in such competition with the LiveCode product could cause irreparable harm and injury and LiveCode Ltd will be entitled, in addition to any other rights and remedies it may have at law or in equity, to an interdict, injunction or other similar relief enjoining or restraining you from doing or continuing to distribute such Created Software or provide such competing service. 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  1 21:55:35 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:55:35 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>

Robert Mann wrote:

 > RE : issue : does livecode consider that all illustrative material
 > & text etc in a stack to their view fall under GPL

I had thought Mark Waddingham had addressed that.  When media is related 
to the functionality, such as an icon, that would seem reasonable to 
expect that it be included as part of the governed work.

If the media is incidental to the app, or more clearly if it's even 
physically external to the app, you should be able to remove it if you 
don't want to share that, in the same way that you can make a word 
processor and you're not obliged to include the poetry you typed with it 
while you were working on it.


 > in my case I've got a project that is related to "publishing" some
 > music practice apps.
 > So cards that contain audio elements, and copyright material like
 > songs, music scores and also pictures, videos & texts (subject to
 > copyright).

Ah, at last something specific and concrete!  Thank you.  The 
abstractions had become boggling.

Why not just do what other apps do and separate your content from your 
functionality.  Then you can share your app as a functional thing with 
content that's interchangeable.  This may also just be a useful way to 
architect, allowing you to build one system that can accommodate any 
number of titles.


 > So all coding would be available to all of course. But these
 > copyrighted elements will not be GPL compatible because as simple
 > as it is french law does not allow an author to push away his
 > copyrights.

The French have made some of the finest films in the world, and I'm able 
to know this because they were distributed here.  The creators of the 
works retain copyright even as they offer specific rights with regard to 
distribution to others.

No distribution license is a transfer of copyright.  Not in film, not in 
software.


 > 1) what seems to be important is the timing of making publicly
 > available some code :
 > -- if you "release" some code under GPL for testing out an app
 > -- and than later on turn to the closed IDE to produce a closed
 > version in view of a commercial development
 > ..if I get it right, you're done! bad choice :: GPL infringement!

A choice is license is not in itself either "good" or "bad"; we choose 
our licenses according to our goals.  When the goal is to share, the GPL 
can be a good choice.

But this is not about timing, but of distributed material:  if you 
distribute the GPL-governed engine, it's governed by the GPL.

What you do in your own home is your own business; what we're discussing 
here is distribution, and it matters less when you distribute than what 
you distribute.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jiml at netrin.com  Tue Mar  1 21:57:00 2016
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:57:00 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2822.1456885942.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.2822.1456885942.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E996E6F8-D0F0-4887-A036-B43D24668960@netrin.com>


> RichardG wrote:
> 
> Whether I buy flowers for my wife because I think she's pretty or because I'm 
> trying to apologize, either way the florist makes $60.

Either way Tiffany is one lucky gal!

Jim Lambert



From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 21:58:07 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 13:58:07 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <E996E6F8-D0F0-4887-A036-B43D24668960@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.2822.1456885942.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<E996E6F8-D0F0-4887-A036-B43D24668960@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <F0F5A3AC-DEB5-433F-BF4A-C4CDC2ABD985@appisle.net>


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 1:57 PM, Jim Lambert <jiml at netrin.com> wrote:
> 
>> Whether I buy flowers for my wife because I think she's pretty or because I'm 
>> trying to apologize, either way the florist makes $60.
> 
> Either way Tiffany is one lucky gal!

Well.. it depends on what he?s apologising for ;-)

From jiml at netrin.com  Tue Mar  1 22:01:21 2016
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:01:21 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2822.1456885942.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.2822.1456885942.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3146F532-C195-4DE3-92FB-56566FCC2490@netrin.com>


> MonteG wrote:
> Well.. it depends on what he?s apologising for ;-)

LOL!

JimL

From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 21:41:33 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 18:41:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <2ED09962-EBA2-4C7E-8474-7BA45E861871@appisle.net>
References: <56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>
	<1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D6498D.6080303@fourthworld.com>
	<1456884608134-4701816.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<2ED09962-EBA2-4C7E-8474-7BA45E861871@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <1456886493408-4701822.post@n4.nabble.com>

OUps!! that IS DAMN CLEAR! By Jove!! 

So ok.. fine.. as one could rephrase the situation :

 2) if you do not make it public, than when you're ready, you're free to 

a) buy a closed commercial license

and THEN
b) turn  for help to an indie/pro developer to finish it up and prepare it
for iOS  launch under whatever license suites you. 

So basically, all clients of any indie developer have to buy/get their own
license for their product.
Tough, but Ok It's best to know in advance.

Well, that closes that subject for me // thanks everybody.
(i'll try to make a summary of that discussion, issues and solutions to make
good use of this NRJ)



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701822.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar  1 23:06:48 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 20:06:48 -0800
Subject: LC8 DP15 error message?
In-Reply-To: <1508D9FC-0D9A-442A-B6FA-C8C2B0200C20@earthednet.org>
References: <1508D9FC-0D9A-442A-B6FA-C8C2B0200C20@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <817E08B0-6CF4-451E-A545-D57BAEE47844@earthednet.org>

Ok, back to LC 7.1.2. The IDE issue is generating a gazillion messages to my message box and I can?t get anything done in this way. So, hoping this bug gets fixed for DP16.
Best,
Bill

> On Mar 1, 2016, at 5:07 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> I?m getting a long list of lines in the message box when I run my app. I?m creating text boxes in code. Among a lot of the lines, there is:
> 
> ERROR: Error when sending message ideNewControl:
> 
> Would this be an IDE bug, or mine? My app works as expected, so ??
> Bill
> 
> Is this something I should be concerned about? Is it an IDE error, or mine?
> 
> From top down, here are a few of the lines:
> 
> ERROR: Error when sending message ideNewControl:
> 
> 89,2654,1
> 
> 69,2654,1,graphic id 74731 of group id 69783 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/prothero/Oceanography Projects/LiveCode-RunRev Projects/PT_Explorer Projects/EarthExplorer_CurrentWkg/appStacks/datastacks/Map Display.livecode"
> 
> 676,2654,1
> 
> 241,2654,1,revIDEControlProperties
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"
> 
> 219,1788,8,revIDEControlProperties
> 
> 465,1788,8
> 
> 241,1788,1,addControlToProjectBrowser
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
> 
> 573,118,1,addControlToProjectBrowser
> 
> 253,118,1
> 
> 253,118,1
> 
> 241,113,1,ideNewControl
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
> 
> 675,1733,1,ideNewControl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From monte at appisle.net  Tue Mar  1 23:11:25 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 15:11:25 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456886493408-4701822.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>
	<1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D6498D.6080303@fourthworld.com>
	<1456884608134-4701816.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<2ED09962-EBA2-4C7E-8474-7BA45E861871@appisle.net>
	<1456886493408-4701822.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <B1D1442D-1530-421F-91CF-CEF3DF3C06FB@appisle.net>


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 1:41 PM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:
> 
> So basically, all clients of any indie developer have to buy/get their own
> license for their product.

No as far as I?m aware clients only need to get their own license if they are also a developer. If the clients aren?t involved in the application other than brief, testing, artwork etc and aren?t using LC then they are unlikely to need a license. I often recommend it though if there is a good tester on the client end it is often helpful for them to have LiveCode available.

Cheers

Monte

From rman at free.fr  Tue Mar  1 22:53:55 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:53:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
References: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>

RE : issue of including copyrighted media into a stack.

<< The creators of the 
works retain copyright even as they offer specific rights with regard to 
distribution to others. 

No distribution license is a transfer of copyright.  Not in film, not in 
software. >>

So.. did my homework again, here come the details :

If livecode's wants that all stacks and content made with the Community
version be fully GPL3 compatible,
all media used in a stack must be under a CC BY-SA 4.0 type license, which
is directly compatible with GPLv3.

In my case, media would only be in NC (non commercial copyleft) thus, not
GPL3 compatible.
And worse, some audio work would even not be in CC but under "SACEM" rules
which is rather restricted and some other work under standard copyright not
CC. So definitively not GPL3 compatible.

So i'll just ask the boss I think. But interesting for all to know what can
be done and what cannot be done with the community version.







--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701826.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar  2 00:35:59 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 23:35:59 -0600
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 9:53 PM, Robert Mann wrote:
> If livecode's wants that all stacks and content made with the Community
> version be fully GPL3 compatible,
> all media used in a stack must be under a CC BY-SA 4.0 type license, which
> is directly compatible with GPLv3.

I have been trying to follow this thread, not always successfully, but 
common sense tells me:

If your app stores media files separately on disk, they are not part of 
the app. They are just files that are loaded into the app. So if you 
have artwork, audio, video, etc. they can be stored on disk and licensed 
separately in whatever way you want.

The app itself, if developed with the community version, would have to 
be GPL. Other people who download your app could re-distribute it, alter 
it, and re-use it under the same GPL conditions. But they couldn't 
redistribute your media files as long as those files are licensed under 
their own, more restrictive license.

Does that sound right to all you guys who read up on this stuff?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar  2 00:41:36 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 16:41:36 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 4:35 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
> 
> Does that sound right to all you guys who read up on this stuff?

I believe any media or other content (whether separate files or not) distributed with the application and/or required to make it function fully would need to be licensed in a GPL compatible license.

Cheers

Monte

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar  2 00:46:00 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 23:46:00 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D650B0.4030009@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D650B0.4030009@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D67E18.40201@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 8:32 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/01/2016 04:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> On 3/1/2016 5:23 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
>>> Don't use the Project Browser so can't comment on the second issue
>>
>> It's confusing, Ali had to explain it to me. I still mostly use the App
>> Browser because I need the column layout.
>>
>> In the Project Browser, the dotted selections are the objects selected
>> on the card. You can't alter dotted-line selections from within the PB,
>> you need to open the property inspector for that.
>>
>> The hilited lines are selections you've made directly in the PB. The
>> icons at the bottom act on those only. So you can click the icons at the
>> bottom to manage the PB-selections (the hilited lines) to resize or
>> align. The card-selected objects (dotted lines) won't change. If you
>> want the card selections to be acted on, you need to manually re-select
>> them in the PB so their lines are hilited as well as dotted.
>>
>> The idea was to be able to select things in the PB that may not be in
>> view, even on totally different cards or stacks, and be able to work
>> with them without going there. Hilited lines indicate which objects will
>> be affected. This could be useful. On the other hand, there is now a
>> disconnect between visible selections on a card and objects you can act
>> on within the PB.
>>
>> Selections also act slightly differently in the Property Inspector. It
>> used to be you could shift-click several objects and then double-click
>> any one of them to open the multi-object inspector. That doesn't work
>> now. Instead you double-click one object on the card to open its
>> inspector and then shift-click objects to add more. That causes the
>> alignment icon to appear at the top left of the inspector, and the other
>> icons will operate on all the selected objects.
>>
>
> I may have to print that out and hang it on the wall.
> Wow - the IDE used to be somewhat intuitive.
>

I confess my first reaction was that LC needs an interface designer.

But once it was explained to me, I understood the problem: how to allow 
the PB to act on objects that are not on the current card, while still 
representing the selected objects that are.

Part of me thinks the dotted lines and the selected lines are backwards; 
dotted suggests inactive, and the objects on the card are actively 
selected. There's 15 years of IDE history that enforces the idea that 
selected card objects should be hilited in the PB. But...the objects 
that will be acted on by the PB are also "active" in a different sense; 
they are the ones that the PB will change. So I flip-flop. I'm not sure 
how it should work.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar  2 01:06:38 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 00:06:38 -0600
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>
References: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56D682EE.5070502@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/1/2016 11:41 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>> On 2 Mar 2016, at 4:35 PM, J. Landman Gay
>> <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
>>
>> Does that sound right to all you guys who read up on this stuff?
>
> I believe any media or other content (whether separate files or not)
> distributed with the application and/or required to make it function
> fully would need to be licensed in a GPL compatible license.

Two hypotheticals:

1. I create a viewer app to display my original artwork as part of my 
job-seeking resume. The viewer seems useful so I decide to distribute it 
to others so they can make their own resumes. I include at least some of 
my artwork in the distribution so that potential users can see how the 
app works, but I don't want them to use my artwork in their own resumes. 
I decide to license my artwork restrictively, but the viewer app is GPL. 
I would think separate licensing in that case would be okay. The app 
doesn't depend on my particular artwork, it only needs something to 
display. (I know I could include media that is public domain instead, 
but that's not the point.)

2. I create an app that teaches the history of medieval art. The artwork 
is mostly public domain, but some of the illustrations, maps, whatever 
are my own creations. The stack doesn't work without the media, and the 
text in the app describes it. In that case I need to license everything 
as GPL because the app isn't functional without the supporting files.

Yes?


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar  2 01:42:37 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 17:42:37 +1100
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D682EE.5070502@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>
	<56D682EE.5070502@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <011F51A8-1DA2-466F-A028-CB3A4D5CA77B@appisle.net>


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 5:06 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
> 
> Two hypotheticals:
> 
> 1. I create a viewer app to display my original artwork as part of my job-seeking resume. The viewer seems useful so I decide to distribute it to others so they can make their own resumes. I include at least some of my artwork in the distribution so that potential users can see how the app works, but I don't want them to use my artwork in their own resumes. I decide to license my artwork restrictively, but the viewer app is GPL. I would think separate licensing in that case would be okay. The app doesn't depend on my particular artwork, it only needs something to display. (I know I could include media that is public domain instead, but that's not the point.)
> 
> 2. I create an app that teaches the history of medieval art. The artwork is mostly public domain, but some of the illustrations, maps, whatever are my own creations. The stack doesn't work without the media, and the text in the app describes it. In that case I need to license everything as GPL because the app isn't functional without the supporting files.
> 
> Yes?


I think wiser heads than mine need to answer this for 1.

Cheers

Monte

From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 02:34:23 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 07:34:23 +0000
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <082B5546-B3FA-494D-B6DD-4267106ADE4D@mac.com>
	<56D51412.7090708@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D616D4.2020508@livecode.com>
	<1456872478631-4701790.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D62ADB.40202@fourthworld.com>
	<1456876681833-4701803.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D6977F.8030207@livecode.com>

On 01/03/2016 23:58, Robert Mann wrote:
> == And lastly, the kafkaesque position vis a vis the use of both tools for
> the same code. In  practice, can I code part of an application in the
> community and part of it in the closed IDE. If not, please do precise if
> there are markers somewhere that are used to track the IDE used.

Frankly, as long as you never give the application to anyone else, you 
can use whatever edition(s) of the IDE you like.  The GPL does not 
restrict *use* -- it only restricts distribution.

                                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar  2 02:36:25 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 07:36:25 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>


> On 1 Mar 2016, at 23:11, Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> I find I get the best results from export snapshot by using the following
> form:
> 
> export snapshot from rect (the rect of tObjectLongID) of tObjectLongID ...
> 
> So you might try
> 
> export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget "Chart") of widget "Chart" of
> this card to tVar as PNG
> 
> If that doesn't give you the correct image then there's definitely a bug
> somewhere.


This suggestion doesn?t work because the widget is a Browser widget and I believe the browser is not a true object
but a window overlay.


All the best


Terry

From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar  2 02:37:23 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 07:37:23 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <56D625F4.2070501@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D625F4.2070501@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5BAF6CDA-4956-4732-B368-B7B2CBE4FD6D@icloud.com>


> On 1 Mar 2016, at 23:29, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Ever since the option was added to take a screen shot directly from an object's rendered buffer I've been using that, since I get high-quality results and can also work with objects not currently on screen.
> 
> Does this not work with widgets?:
> 
>  export snapshot from widget "Chart" to tVar as PNG


This does not work because a Browser widget is not a true LiveCode object.

The same problem as Ali Lloyd?s suggestion.


All the best

Terry





From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 02:39:23 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 07:39:23 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>

On 02/03/2016 00:08, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> In the Project Browser, the dotted selections are the objects selected
> on the card. You can't alter dotted-line selections from within the PB,
> you need to open the property inspector for that.

You can double click on an item in the Project Browser to select it on 
the card.

                                   Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 02:50:33 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:50:33 +0200
Subject: beggars be choosers
In-Reply-To: <40B29451-FA4B-4770-90F4-7CD2A5CF3CE8@iotecdigital.com>
References: <mailman.2149.1456420400.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<0D089974-2251-4155-A783-29A301498FD1@mac.com>
	<56D54C3A.60801@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOAJzR-uMZ3y2Xci8MBPuxSYx2=eoZejtap7nVNZTNhYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D5D816.5040808@gmail.com>
	<40B29451-FA4B-4770-90F4-7CD2A5CF3CE8@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <56D69B49.5090406@gmail.com>

Well, Bob, I wouldn't want to spoil my reputation, would I?

Although tinned duck sounds as though it might stick between the teeth 
somewhat.

I do hope that all the wobbly bits in DP15 get ironed out for RC1, even 
at the expense
of having to wait until New Year, which would be far better than having 
an RC which was a rush job.

Duck, Tin or what-have-ye, I am filing bug reports for LC 8.0; I hope 
you are, in between
the funny comments.

Richmond.

On 2.03.2016 01:18, Bob Sneidar wrote:
> You'd just eat whatever was in it and then complain you still didn't have a tin.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Mar 1, 2016, at 09:57 , RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> In our current development process, "Release Candidate" builds are exactly
> what they say on the tin, i.e. once we release 8.0 RC 1, then 8.0 final
> release will follow shortly after.
>
> I'd like to register a formal complaint: when I downloaded the last release candidate I didn't get a tin.
>
> Richmond.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 02:52:17 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:52:17 +0200
Subject: The Future of LiveCode in Education
In-Reply-To: <1456880070183-4701810.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1532da947b3-7bab-7365@webprd-a84.mail.aol.com>
	<BA793FE8-1172-4915-994A-43C7095D6ABE@siphonophore.com>
	<56D51563.7030109@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d5201f.7340c54.2377@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<74C4D043-5077-4EEE-A7BB-A63504EB95EE@gmail.com>
	<56D56237.9050509@gmail.com>
	<1456880070183-4701810.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D69BB1.6000902@gmail.com>



On 2.03.2016 02:54, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> Hi Richmond
>
>
> RM wrote
>> [SNIP]
>> In 1993 I ended up in a married student "cave" at Southern Illinois
>> University with an LC 475 on the desk in front of me and a screaming 7
>> month year old next to me (my wife had a Fulbright scholarship);
>> Hypercard probably prevented me from battering the baby to death!!!!!
> Wow! HyperCard save lives too. :D

Indeed it did!

And I am quite sure that LiveCode could be leveraged to save lives in 
the form of a front-end
for cardiac-monitoring machines and so on!

R.

>
> Last line of your message, reads
> like an O'Henry short story:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._Henry
>
> How many language teachers knows that they could
> use LiveCode to teach hypertext and creative writing?
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221267074_Hypertext_and_Creative_Writing
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Re-The-Future-of-LiveCode-in-Education-tp4701642p4701810.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 03:01:59 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 10:01:59 +0200
Subject: Hey-Ho and Off We Go with HTML5
In-Reply-To: <56D4A7E6.1050706@gmail.com>
References: <56D49C12.8070105@gmail.com> <56D4A666.6090508@gmail.com>
	<56D4A7E6.1050706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D69DF7.9050903@gmail.com>



On 29.02.2016 22:19, RM wrote:
>
>
> On 29.02.2016 22:13, RM wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 29.02.2016 21:29, RM wrote:
>>> So:
>>>
>>> I made a stack with a button and 2 fields in LiveCode 8.0 DP 15 and 
>>> a spot of
>>> scripting in the button, and exported the thing as an HTML5 
>>> standalone, then opened
>>> the generated page in Firefox, and (apart from the slightly squiffy 
>>> aesthetics) the thing
>>> looked and behaved exactly like the original stack.
>>>
>>> Rocks!
>>>
>>> So . . . . I am getting all revved-up to generate an HTML page for 
>>> University students of my
>>> wife's to do a gap-fill exercise, AND, having clicked on a "SUBMIT" 
>>> button  to have the results
>>> put into a merry text-file and e-mailed to my wife.
>>>
>>> AND the question is: can anybody tell me how to send a text file 
>>> generated in Livecode
>>> to an email address?
>>>
>>> Richmond.
>>
>> So: I popped this in a button of my stack:
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>    revMail "ZZZ at gmail.com", "QQQ at gmail.com", "Test", "Message sent 
>> from LiveCode-HTML5"
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> From the stack that button opened my email client (Thunderbird) and 
>> filled in all the required boxes.
>>
>> Absolutely fantastic!!!
>>
>> BUT, from the same stuck, once hived-off as an HTML5 thing the button 
>> didn't work.
>>
>> Richmond.
>
> The next question, inevitably, is what will happen if one's end-user 
> accesses their e-mail via
> a web-browser and has no configured e-mail client installed on their 
> computer?
>
> R.

I have just run that stack on a computer at my school which has no 
e-mail client configured:

clicking the button resulted in absolutely nothing.

What I would love is a way for a way for a stack to "phone home" when an 
end-user clicks on a button

[Quick clarification here: I don't mean "phone home" in a sneaky, 
underhand sort of way which some software does, but send an e-mail 
message to some e-mail address when an end-user clicks on a button and 
asks them if they object to a message being sent]

Preferably this would be WITHOUT the message having to go via the 
client's e-mail system as:

1.  The message should be anonymous.

2.  The end-user may have no e-mail client configured.

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26704

Richmond.



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 03:18:36 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 09:18:36 +0100
Subject: Hey-Ho and Off We Go with HTML5
In-Reply-To: <56D69DF7.9050903@gmail.com>
References: <56D49C12.8070105@gmail.com> <56D4A666.6090508@gmail.com>
	<56D4A7E6.1050706@gmail.com> <56D69DF7.9050903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b507a8cb20cb0828702e647fcbf9dff5@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-02 09:01, RM wrote:
> Preferably this would be WITHOUT the message having to go via the
> client's e-mail system as:
> 
> 1.  The message should be anonymous.
> 
> 2.  The end-user may have no e-mail client configured.

Okay so there in terms of what you will be able to do in this regard 
with the HTML5 engine there are two feasible options as far as I can 
see:

1) "launch url" with a 'mailto:' URL. This would invoke the locally 
configured email client (and is what revMail does). This won't (I 
believe) work in the HTML5 engine yet because we haven't hooked it up 
(to my knowledge at least). I *think* this would be possible - Peter 
could perhaps comment. (It would ask the hosting web-browser to launch 
the url).

2) Put a web-service on a server and get that to send the email. This 
requires no client-side email configuration but does require configuring 
a web-service to do it. Indeed, there might be third party services out 
there which could be used. Again, Peter would have to comment on the 
feasibility of whether this would work in the HTML5 engine at the moment 
since I cannot recall off the top of my head which (if any) URL 
primitives we have yet implemented.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 03:30:00 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 10:30:00 +0200
Subject: Hey-Ho and Off We Go with HTML5
In-Reply-To: <b507a8cb20cb0828702e647fcbf9dff5@livecode.com>
References: <56D49C12.8070105@gmail.com> <56D4A666.6090508@gmail.com>
	<56D4A7E6.1050706@gmail.com> <56D69DF7.9050903@gmail.com>
	<b507a8cb20cb0828702e647fcbf9dff5@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D6A488.4020702@gmail.com>



On 2.03.2016 10:18, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2016-03-02 09:01, RM wrote:
>> Preferably this would be WITHOUT the message having to go via the
>> client's e-mail system as:
>>
>> 1.  The message should be anonymous.
>>
>> 2.  The end-user may have no e-mail client configured.
>
> Okay so there in terms of what you will be able to do in this regard 
> with the HTML5 engine there are two feasible options as far as I can see:
>
> 1) "launch url" with a 'mailto:' URL. This would invoke the locally 
> configured email client (and is what revMail does). This won't (I 
> believe) work in the HTML5 engine yet because we haven't hooked it up 
> (to my knowledge at least). I *think* this would be possible - Peter 
> could perhaps comment. (It would ask the hosting web-browser to launch 
> the url).
>
> 2) Put a web-service on a server and get that to send the email. This 
> requires no client-side email configuration but does require 
> configuring a web-service to do it. Indeed, there might be third party 
> services out there which could be used. Again, Peter would have to 
> comment on the feasibility of whether this would work in the HTML5 
> engine at the moment since I cannot recall off the top of my head 
> which (if any) URL primitives we have yet implemented.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>

Thank you very much for a reply that is a statement of the /status quo/ 
as regards e-mailing from Livecode at the moment. This is extremely 
helpful as it gives me an idea of what I /can/ and /cannot/
do at the moment in this regard.

What I would like to do, ideally, is set up a chart of some sort with 
text entry fields for students to fill in
online, then click a 'submit' button that will send the field entries as 
a list to an e-mail address.

As the current revMail capabilities are not /currently/ implemented in 
the HTML5 engine that will have
to wait.

Am I right in understanding that, theoretically a least, the goal is to 
implement all the capabilities
of Livecode into the HTML5 engine?

Richmond.


From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 03:30:52 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 09:30:52 +0100
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
References: <DFAC1734-E20C-4D15-AF1F-8E9B98D05F3C@icloud.com>
	<56D60A8A.8060303@hyperactivesw.com>
	<67A7ED37-D35B-43FC-B525-68A3DA979840@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <c1f5d3c40334ec05f7959f72108b3033@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-01 22:57, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> On 1 Mar 2016, at 21:32, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> "To export a snapshot for a portion of a stack you use the form:
>> export snapshot from rect[angle] of window windowID to ...
>> Where windowId is the windowId property of the required stack."
> 
> This does not work correctly on a Mac for the reason given previously.
> 
> The top and bottom of the image exported has shifted down by the depth
> of the menubar.
> put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
> 
> export snapshot from rectangle tRect of window (the windowId of window
> "Test") to tVar as PNG
> 
> 
> The corrected version would be:
> 
> put the rect widget "Chart" into tRect
> 
> subtract 22 from item 2 of tRect
> 
> subtract 22 from item 4 of tRect
> 
> export snapshot from rectangle tRect of window (the windowId of window
>  ?Test") to tVar as PNG

There are three types of export/import snapshot.

The first uses the screen buffer - the co-ordinates have to be in screen 
co-ordinate space:

   export snapshot from rectangle tRect

The second uses the window buffer (if the OS has such things, otherwise 
it is equivalent to using the screen buffer after a translation of 
co-ordinates) - the co-ordinates have to be in window co-ordinate space 
(NOT card co-ordinate space):

   export snapshot from rectangle tRect of window tWindowId

The third uses no buffer at all, it asks the target object (and 
children) to render the specified rect of itself into an offscreen 
buffer (the same mechanism which the engine uses to update a window when 
the OS requests it, or a portion gets changed) - the co-ordinates have 
to be in card co-ordinate space:

   export snapshot from rectangle tRect of <object>

Now, the final form here will work for any object which is drawn by the 
LiveCode engine - it will not necessarily work for objects which use 
'native' layers to display things (such as the browser). Whether or not 
one can get a native layer to render itself entirely depends on the 
native layer. For example, we've not had any success at all in 
persuading the CEF browser to give us a snapshot as it uses various 
'native' things which do not want to give up their backing store of 
pixels.

Therefore, if you want to take a snapshot of a stack containing native 
layers your best bet to make this work generally is to use the screen or 
window form. When you do this you do have to take into account the fact 
that cards might have a vertical scroll due to menus (that mysterious 22 
px) - you can get the current scroll amount by using 'the vscroll of 
stack ...'.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 03:34:34 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 09:34:34 +0100
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-02 08:36, Terence Heaford wrote:
> This suggestion doesn?t work because the widget is a Browser widget
> and I believe the browser is not a true object
> but a window overlay.

Not exactly - the browser widget is a true engine object, but it uses a 
'native' layer to display itself. At present native layers do stack 
above the card layer (which also renders into a native layer, just with 
drawing code the engine has complete control over) but we would like to 
make them interleave as you would generally expect at some point 
(there's just a fair bit of engineering to do to get that to work!). 
(Note that there is a well defined ordering for layers used by native 
layer using objects - the layering follows the same layering as the 
objects on the card, its just that all non-native objects will stack 
first, then all native objects).

Whether or not you can actually get the pixels directly out of a native 
layer depends entirely on what 'kind' the native layer is and whether 
the platform lets you do that kind of thing.

See my other post for more details.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 03:36:25 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 09:36:25 +0100
Subject: Hey-Ho and Off We Go with HTML5
In-Reply-To: <56D6A488.4020702@gmail.com>
References: <56D49C12.8070105@gmail.com> <56D4A666.6090508@gmail.com>
	<56D4A7E6.1050706@gmail.com> <56D69DF7.9050903@gmail.com>
	<b507a8cb20cb0828702e647fcbf9dff5@livecode.com>
	<56D6A488.4020702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e52ec73b680b45ea8303d3dea3eaa5cf@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-02 09:30, RM wrote:
> Am I right in understanding that, theoretically a least, the goal is
> to implement all the capabilities
> of Livecode into the HTML5 engine?

The goal is to implement (over time) as many LiveCode capabilities which 
are possible to implement in HTML5 it definitely won't be all because 
that simply isn't possible.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 03:39:19 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 09:39:19 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D67E18.40201@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D650B0.4030009@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D67E18.40201@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-02 06:46, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> I confess my first reaction was that LC needs an interface designer.

Ah - yes - those magical 'interface designers' who you just ask to give 
you the perfect UI that *everyone* immediately understands and knows how 
to use and works exactly how each individual wants it to work ;)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 04:00:52 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:00:52 +0200
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D650B0.4030009@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D67E18.40201@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D6ABC4.1020600@gmail.com>

I designed an interface for my Devawriter Pro [ go and have a look at 
it: http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/richmond/dwriterpro.html ].

Frankly I am well aware it is horrible because it is cluttered to blazes 
with all sorts of fancy features
I built into the thing along the way.

It is meant to be the "B-and-end-all" of Devanagari text entry: were I 
to dumb the thing down it
would be . . . well . . . DUMB.

So here's Richmond's "9 shilling note" on interface design:

1. You'll never keep everybody happy.

2. You'll always have a fight between what to include and what to exclude.

3. Which is more important? Functionality or Appearance?

4. Every single thing that has ever been invented involves a learning 
curve; be it a frying pan
or Livecode.

5.  People who expect to open a box and get something that "just works" 
are naive in their
expectations and should not be pandered to.

6. Certainly in my experience with Primary school children they lose 
interest very quickly indeed in
a program that is moronic and does not involve some cognitive effort.

-----------------------------------------------

Livecode's interface as of version 7 is significantly easier to use than 
Runtime Revolution 1.1.1,
and Livecode 8's interface will take a bit of getting used to 
(especially the new properties palette),
but is NOT insurmountable, and is NOT daft, and after a wee while is 
perfectly usable.

Anyone who feels "lumpy" about Livecode's interface should take a look 
at Hypercard's, Metacard's and RunRev 1. AND that list doesn't even 
mention Visual Basic . . . or, for that matter, all those programming 
languages one writes in a text editor with NO interface whatsoever.

----------------------------------------------

My first reaction when I saw Livecode/RunRev 1.1 was a long sigh of 
relief after having wrestled with
Toolbook and Director. Any rude noises I have made about the interface 
subsequently are minor by comparison; and, as I have demonstrated time 
and time again, mucking around with the Livecode interface to get 
something more to one's taste is really comparatively easy.

Richmond.

On 2.03.2016 10:39, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2016-03-02 06:46, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> I confess my first reaction was that LC needs an interface designer.
>
> Ah - yes - those magical 'interface designers' who you just ask to 
> give you the perfect UI that *everyone* immediately understands and 
> knows how to use and works exactly how each individual wants it to 
> work ;)
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Wed Mar  2 04:14:16 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 10:14:16 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D650B0.4030009@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D67E18.40201@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CF06163B-3C7D-4009-B02B-DE98833ACCF2@me.com>


> 2. mar. 2016 kl. 09.39 skrev Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com>:
> 
> On 2016-03-02 06:46, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> I confess my first reaction was that LC needs an interface designer.
> 
> Ah - yes - those magical 'interface designers' who you just ask to give you the perfect UI that *everyone* immediately understands and knows how to use and works exactly how each individual wants it to work ;)
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 

Yes, we would prefer those magical interface designers whenever they are available. If not, we will accept the interface designers who are able to speak the lingo of grumpy software engineers, and who can facilitate fruitful discussions that may lead to an optimal amalgamation of UI/UE and awesome code. But magical would be better off course. ;)

Regards
Tore




From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 05:29:39 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 18:29:39 +0800
Subject: Apple Automator
In-Reply-To: <E781848C-810D-4A2A-94DE-81345048E30E@gmail.com>
References: <E781848C-810D-4A2A-94DE-81345048E30E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5khgP94739-9beCE4Ag-ky9s2tT3r48j-HwQrWkzGncZ3A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 2:24 AM, Glen Bojsza <gbojsza at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it possible to launch Apple Automator shell scripts from LC app?

If by shell script you mean Workflow, then the answer is yes.

Try this:

Open up Automator, create a new workflow, go to the iTunes actions and
drag 'Start iTunes Playing' into the right side. Save this to your
Documents folder as 'test.workflow'

Quit Automator.

Start AppleScript Editor, click on the record button, then double
click on your test.workflow so that Automator starts up. Go back to
the AppleScript Editor and click stop. In the workspace their should
be something like this:

tell application "Finder"
activate
open document file "test.workflow" of folder "Documents" of folder
"yourname" of folder "Users" of startup disk
end tell


To that add the following 4 lines:

delay 2
tell application "Automator"
execute workflow "test.workflow"
end tell

So the whole lot in AppleScript should look like this:

tell application "Finder"
activate
open document file "test.workflow" of folder "Documents" of folder
"yourname" of folder "Users" of startup disk
end tell
delay 2
tell application "Automator"
execute workflow "test.workflow"
end tell

Quit Automator.

Click on the Run button in AppleScript Editor. Automator should start
up with your test.workflow and it should start iTunes playing. If not
there might be an error about 'Can't get workflow "test.workflow" If
so you need to try a bigger delay.

Once you've got that working, Quit iTunes and Automator.

You now go to LiveCode, New Stack, drag a button onto it.

The next part is the hard part. You have to take that entire script
above and put it into a variable, in this case I've called it tScript.
You have to be careful because every " (quote) used in the script
above MUST appear as the word 'quote' in the variable tScript. You
have to also add all the carriage returns - cr

So basically: tell application "Finder"
becomes: "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote

The final script for your button should look like this:

on mouseUp
put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
"activate" & cr & \
"open document file " & quote & "test.workflow" & quote & " of folder
" & quote & "Documents" & quote & " of folder " & quote & "yourname" &
quote & " of folder " & quote & "Users" & quote & " of startup disk" &
cr & \
"end tell" & cr & \
"delay 2" & cr & \
"tell application " & quote & "Automator" & quote & cr & \
"execute workflow " & quote & "test.workflow" & quote & cr & \
"end tell" into tScript

do tScript as "AppleScript"

end mouseUp

If it doesn't work, add a breakpoint and stop at the:

put ".........    ......." into tScript

 line and double check what is in tScript looks exactly the same -
same number of lines, same quotes, as it appears in the AppleScript
Editor. Once you have it perfect then:

do tScript as "AppleScript"

will cause AppleScript to launch, which will then launch your workflow.

Practically, if you create the workflow as described, and give it the
name 'test.workflow'. You should be able to just copy and past the
LiveCode script here into your button, change 'yourname' to whatever
your computer account name is and it should work. The only gotcha is
you have to careful of linebreaks as email clients have a tendency to
add hard line wraps where there is a soft line wrap: - the 4th line is
very long

1st line: on mouseUp
7 lines which all end in: cr & \
9th line:  "end tell" into tScript
blank line
do tScript as "AppleScript"
blank line
last line: end mouseUp

13 lines total



From rman at free.fr  Wed Mar  2 07:15:30 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 04:15:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D682EE.5070502@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>
	<56D682EE.5070502@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1456920930665-4701848.post@n4.nabble.com>

Spot on! Thanks Jacqueline, That is exactly the choice I have :

1. make a viewer of a special kind of media aggregate with the community
version under GPL
& deliver these media aggregate in a separate file under whatever license.
(plus i'll document that format so that others can produce such content)

--> I can crunch in a specialized in house editor
--> content will be more "industrialized" not as rich visually,
just like an app instead of the original hypercard spirit mix of app + book.
--> not ok for iOs distribution

2. create fully contained mixed apps+content in the spirit oh hypercard, non
GPL, with livecode commercial edition.
--> ok for iOs distribution

to which I add :

3. have a tier party do the viewer ready for iOs and let me concentrate on
the in house editor.
--> ok for iOs distibution

4. switch to web service for distribution which is something I do "master"
thanks to revIgniter bootcamp and some in house development i've done in
that view.
--> ok for wider usage/distribution
--> if third parties/individuals  wish to produce content, I can either open
source the in house editor or sell it with a commercial version.

5. see in the future if live code HTML5 can help produce better quality
content for the web, that would match the quality of interaction we once
upon a time had with hypercard stacks!

And the winner is : number 4 (the web app path) considering that for kids,
having to install one more app on a phone is to my point of view not ideal.
Also dealing with separate content is subject of problems on my android
phone.

So as conclusion,  the "evolution" from the hypercard time is  internet, web
pages, web apps.
bye bye stacks.

So that is it for the issue number 3 for me // many thanks all and I hope it
can help others have a clearer view of the impact of licensings schemes in
their plans.
RObert





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701848.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar  2 08:26:53 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 13:26:53 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
	<dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <B46BE0DD-205D-4E05-8600-395032AB7CFF@icloud.com>

Thanks for the comments.

As I am using a Browser to display amCharts it would be good to be able to print the contents of the Browser.

This workaround of snapshot gives a poor printout when it is copied to an image for printing.

Would there be a better way to achieve this?

I understand the need to create widgets to showcase what can be achieved with LC8 but I am thinking it is counter productive
to include widgets that are not completed, particularly when LC8 is released.

The Browser is a good example in that without printing functionality, it?s not useless but is severely limited.


All the best

Terry

> On 2 Mar 2016, at 08:34, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2016-03-02 08:36, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> This suggestion doesn?t work because the widget is a Browser widget
>> and I believe the browser is not a true object
>> but a window overlay.
> 
> Not exactly - the browser widget is a true engine object, but it uses a 'native' layer to display itself. At present native layers do stack above the card layer (which also renders into a native layer, just with drawing code the engine has complete control over) but we would like to make them interleave as you would generally expect at some point (there's just a fair bit of engineering to do to get that to work!). (Note that there is a well defined ordering for layers used by native layer using objects - the layering follows the same layering as the objects on the card, its just that all non-native objects will stack first, then all native objects).
> 
> Whether or not you can actually get the pixels directly out of a native layer depends entirely on what 'kind' the native layer is and whether the platform lets you do that kind of thing.
> 
> See my other post for more details.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 08:53:06 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:53:06 +0100
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <B46BE0DD-205D-4E05-8600-395032AB7CFF@icloud.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
	<dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>
	<B46BE0DD-205D-4E05-8600-395032AB7CFF@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <c2ed9fde399e7b7803a67c2681f77419@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-02 14:26, Terence Heaford wrote:
> Thanks for the comments.
> 
> As I am using a Browser to display amCharts it would be good to be
> able to print the contents of the Browser.
> 
> This workaround of snapshot gives a poor printout when it is copied to
> an image for printing.
> 
> Would there be a better way to achieve this?
> 
> I understand the need to create widgets to showcase what can be
> achieved with LC8 but I am thinking it is counter productive
> to include widgets that are not completed, particularly when LC8 is 
> released.
> 
> The Browser is a good example in that without printing functionality,
> it?s not useless but is severely limited.

For a use-case which requires printing the browser contents then yes, 
that is a limitation. However, it would be a huge stretch to assert that 
'all uses of a browser require printing functionality' because they 
don't, quite frankly. So, 'severely limited' - no; not ideal for your 
use-case - yes.

To be fair, if you are trying to print the current image in the browser 
window as part of a larger document rather than just the browser window 
contents itself then I'm not sure that is actually going to be generally 
possible. I *think* it can be done on Mac (as the WebView component has 
the standard Cocoa-based printing ability at first sight at least), 
however I'm not so sure on the other platforms - particularly mobile. (I 
just had a quick look into CEF and the options there do appear to be 
very very limited as well).

If you are printing the browser content on its own, then you could try 
using JavaScript - something along the lines of 'window.print()'. 
However, I'm not sure how controllable that is - perhaps someone with 
more intimate knowledge of doing such things in JavaScript in browsers 
could chime in and comment :)

Looking into amCharts there does seem to be a way to 'export' a chart as 
an image using JS - either as images or SVG. You could export as a PNG / 
JPG at 2-4x the size in pixels and then print that using LiveCode - that 
would give a better fidelity result. Once we have SVG support integrated 
(which won't happen for LC8 unfortunately, but should shortly 
afterwards), then that would be another approach which will give much 
better fidelity.

Alternatively, you could consider generating a PDF from JavaScript 
(there's a tutorial of that on the amCharts site), or building a web 
page with all that you wish to print and using the 'window.print()' 
method - taking LiveCode out of the equation entirely.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar  2 09:09:25 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:09:25 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <c2ed9fde399e7b7803a67c2681f77419@livecode.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
	<dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>
	<B46BE0DD-205D-4E05-8600-395032AB7CFF@icloud.com>
	<c2ed9fde399e7b7803a67c2681f77419@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <3B349C44-A4A8-499F-B507-39AF6FF0868F@icloud.com>


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 13:53, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> If you are printing the browser content on its own, then you could try using JavaScript - something along the lines of 'window.print()'. However, I'm not sure how controllable that is - perhaps someone with more intimate knowledge of doing such things in JavaScript in browsers could chime in and comment :)


This seems to be the best way by calling from LiveCode into the Javascript of the Browser.

I have found this which seems to allow for calling LiveCode from Javascript but not anything going in the other direction?

------
Name: javascriptHandlers
Type: property
Syntax: set the javascriptHandlers of <widget> to <pHanderList>
get the javascriptHandlers of <widget>
Summary: A list of LiveCode handlers that are made available to JavaScript calls within the browser.
???


All the best

Terry

From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 09:11:18 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 15:11:18 +0100
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <3B349C44-A4A8-499F-B507-39AF6FF0868F@icloud.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
	<dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>
	<B46BE0DD-205D-4E05-8600-395032AB7CFF@icloud.com>
	<c2ed9fde399e7b7803a67c2681f77419@livecode.com>
	<3B349C44-A4A8-499F-B507-39AF6FF0868F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <c1397fcd4ed55c61d44bcc8c663a4f91@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-02 15:09, Terence Heaford wrote:
> This seems to be the best way by calling from LiveCode into the
> Javascript of the Browser.
> 
> I have found this which seems to allow for calling LiveCode from
> Javascript but not anything going in the other direction?
> 
> ------
> Name: javascriptHandlers
> Type: property
> Syntax: set the javascriptHandlers of <widget> to <pHanderList>
> get the javascriptHandlers of <widget>
> Summary: A list of LiveCode handlers that are made available to
> JavaScript calls within the browser.
> ???

Take a look at the "do in widget" command in the dictionary.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar  2 09:18:57 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:18:57 +0000
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <c1397fcd4ed55c61d44bcc8c663a4f91@livecode.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
	<dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>
	<B46BE0DD-205D-4E05-8600-395032AB7CFF@icloud.com>
	<c2ed9fde399e7b7803a67c2681f77419@livecode.com>
	<3B349C44-A4A8-499F-B507-39AF6FF0868F@icloud.com>
	<c1397fcd4ed55c61d44bcc8c663a4f91@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CE0126D5-ED70-4B2E-B9F6-7B19A95693BC@icloud.com>

Thanks, for some reason I thought it would be in the widget docs.


All the best

Terry


> On 2 Mar 2016, at 14:11, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> Take a look at the "do in widget" command in the dictionary.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.




From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Wed Mar  2 09:24:12 2016
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 15:24:12 +0100
Subject: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard
	question...")
Message-ID: <56D6F78C.20201@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

While answering Matthias Rebbe Kevin Miller wrote on Tue, 01 Mar 2016 17:34:48:


> (snip)
>> I?ve reviewed the thread between Heather and Wilhelm and I can see that no
>> such withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place. Wilhelm simply
>> does not yet appear to fully understand the extensive explanation that
>> Heather supplied. Perhaps we can improve the way we communicate these
>> complexities in the future.
>>
>> This list is definitely not the place to discuss this. I?m sure Heather
>> and Wilhelm will reach a point of understanding through normal channels.


It is a rather simplistic and convenient way to assume that I "simply do not yet appear to fully understand...." - and I think this needs to be commented here.

Given the present state of the discussion, in which Support simply refuses to drop some untenable and unsustainable arguments, I still have the impression that indeed a "withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place", like I have described it in my post.

I could quote a number of statements here that definitely leave no room for any misunderstandings.

I may take your "chiming in" as a positive note and an encouragement to try to "reach a point of understanding" and I hope you will second such attempts that could be beneficial for both sides. And we should have improved our ways to communicate already in the past. To that effect I had proposed to apply the principle of "intellectual honesty" in our discussions, which is a standard usually employed in academic or scientific discourses, but useful everywhere.


Kind regards,

Wilhelm Sanke


---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 09:24:38 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 15:24:38 +0100
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <CE0126D5-ED70-4B2E-B9F6-7B19A95693BC@icloud.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
	<dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>
	<B46BE0DD-205D-4E05-8600-395032AB7CFF@icloud.com>
	<c2ed9fde399e7b7803a67c2681f77419@livecode.com>
	<3B349C44-A4A8-499F-B507-39AF6FF0868F@icloud.com>
	<c1397fcd4ed55c61d44bcc8c663a4f91@livecode.com>
	<CE0126D5-ED70-4B2E-B9F6-7B19A95693BC@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <ad4b5e2378e5f3206db7a3e7dfdd9476@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-02 15:18, Terence Heaford wrote:
> Thanks, for some reason I thought it would be in the widget docs.

Indeed that would be a logical place for it to be - the reason it isn't 
is because the browser widget syntax (such as 'do ...') is currently 
hard-coded in the engine's parser rather than defined by the widget (the 
latter will come when we've finished Open Language) and so the 
dictionary doesn't actually know that there is specific syntax for the 
browser widget.

I've raised Bug 17053 about that 
(http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17053).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 09:30:47 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 15:30:47 +0100
Subject: Summary: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
Message-ID: <c5ad0c7ebbd6e2b7ca5b21aba1baf1f3@livecode.com>

Hi all,

There has been a long thread discussing a number of different aspects 
relating to licensing and pricing. Thank you all for your input! In the 
interests of clarity, here is a summary of our position on the matters 
discussed.

PRICING
~~~~~~~

We are raising our prices - yes. We are not doing it suddenly, we have 
been and are doing it over a period of time. The reason we have staged 
price increases has been precisely because we know we have a great many 
long standing users who have supported us over the years and we wanted 
to insulate them from increases as a 'thank you' for that long support. 
We even recently ran an offer which allowed you to lock in the price of 
$299/year, and I?m pleased to see that many of you did so.

I'm minded of the following wee anecdote:

     A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God 
for help.

     Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on 
the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

     The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God 
and he is going to save me."

     So the rowboat went on.

     Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, 
"Jump in, I can save you."

     To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he 
is going to save me. I have faith."

     So the motorboat went on.

     Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this 
rope and I will lift you to safety."

     To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to 
God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

     So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

     Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went 
to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation 
with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you 
didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

     To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a 
helicopter, what more did you expect?"

Of course we wouldn't have even considered raising prices if we didn't 
believe it was warranted. We have made huge investments in the LiveCode 
product over the last few years and continue to do so. The quality of 
every release is the best it has ever been, thanks in part to the 
construction of an automated build and test system, but also because of 
the new talent we have been able to employ, who have brought their own 
years of expertise to our engineering process. The timeliness with which 
we are able to address bugs has increased substantially, and we are 
close to releasing LiveCode 8 which we hope will be as transformative 
for the LiveCode ecosystem as the explosion in VBX/OCX controls were to 
the Visual Basic world.

At the end of the day, LiveCode is important to a lot of people - 
whether they be users, company employees, shareholders or investors. 
LiveCode is also hugely expensive to develop and maintain and it is not 
going to get any cheaper to do so. There are simply an order of 
magnitude more things to consider when writing software at the level 
LiveCode has to be written at today compared to 10 years ago, and people 
expect software (particularly development tools) to do an order of 
magnitude more (which is entirely fair enough - but the more something 
does, the more it costs to produce and maintain). Please note, this is 
not a complaint on my part - part of the reason I do what I do and enjoy 
doing it is that I like the challenge of battling with large complex 
systems, and trying to simplify them (at least from the point of view 
from an outside observer/user).

Pricing is never an easy area and is always a balancing act. We do not 
take such decisions lightly. This is the path for LiveCode and its 
ecosystem as a whole, and unfortunately it is simply never possible to 
please everyone.

If you do have specific questions about pricing or related matters 
(particularly pertaining to your own situations) then please do remember 
that support at livecode.com is always there, and is generally the best 
place to have such discussions. Heather and Neil are always happy to 
receive your emails :)


LICENSING
~~~~~~~~~

There is a very simple rule to apply to work out whether you need a 
commercial license or not. If you need to ask 'do I need a commercial 
license' then you probably do. In particular, if you are asking that 
question to try to avoid paying for a commercial license then you almost 
certainly do.

The fact of the matter is that it comes down to one of the following:

     1) If you are happy to buy into the ideal of the GPL and abide by 
its terms then use the community edition.

     2) If not, buy a commercial edition.

The most critical thing to remember is that it is the *intent* of the 
GPL that actually matters and not the current text of any particular 
version. The simple reason for that is if the GPL is ever tested in 
court and the outcome is not favourable or contradicts any 
interpretation the FSF have made of it then the FSF will produce a new 
version which closes any loopholes which have been exposed in the court 
case. I can say for certain that if that does happen then we will 
immediately change the license of the community version of LiveCode to 
that new iteration. As the computer world evolves so fast, it really 
doesn't matter what source code is out there in the wild under the 
current version as that source will become obsolete in a relatively 
short space of time. (Also remember that all such legal wrangling takes 
a very very long time and no-one can really take any action until they 
are completely finished - for example the SCO case only recently finally 
got settled, and we still await the absolute final outcome of Google vs 
Oracle).

The intent of the GPL is clear - it is fundamentally about building an 
ecosystem of software where everyone has the right to contribute to it. 
Nothing more, nothing less. It is not an economic force (and thus has 
nothing to do with money) it is a creative force. It is about ensuring 
that if I receive a piece of software then I also have the right to 
modify and adapt that software and distribute any such modifications. 
Absolutely every piece of software is derived from a set of files which 
can be considered the 'source code' - whether that be actual 
source-code, artwork, music, prose, or whatever - which is then 
processed using some set of tools to produce something that you can 
actually run and use - this is always 100% crystal clear.

Some might challenge us on whether a script-only-stack written in a text 
editor has to be conveyed under the GPL, or whether stackfiles have to 
be conveyed under the GPL but any who do are missing the point of the 
intent of the GPL and trying to work around it. The FSF have made it 
crystal clear the Joomla and Wordpress plugins (which are just text 
files which you edit in an editor) are subject to the GPL's copyleft 
provision and I believe that there is simply no abstract model you can 
take which could justify LiveCode being considered differently from 
them. The point here is very subtle but I do believe it is happily 
covered by the standard notions of 'derivative work' and there is a 
simple acid test: could you have written the content of your 
script-only-stack text file without using the ideas, notions and 
existence of LiveCode? If yes, then the GPL does not apply as it is not 
a derivative work; if no then it most certainly does apply as your 
creative endeavour has been derived (if only in a small part) from 
LiveCode's.

A very colloquial, albeit slightly abstract, way of putting what the GPL 
is about is simply this:

     If you have stood on someone's shoulders to produce something and 
you
     then distribute it, you must allow the receivers of it to stand on 
your
     shoulders.

Which in completely concrete terms boils down to this:

     If you have LiveCode Community and do not have an active commercial 
license
     of one type or another and you write a LiveCode program (whatever 
form it takes)
     then whenever you give that program to someone else you must do so 
under the
     terms of the GPL.

If you don't wish to pay for a commercial license of some sort, then 
your option is to enter the GPL ecosystem of LiveCode Community and 
abide by its rules. If you do decide to pay for a commercial license 
then you can walk in both. I, personally, think that is entirely fair 
and reasonable.

Obviously support at livecode.com is always there to help answer your 
questions about licensing... However, please do remember that you can 
universally answer the 'do I need a commercial license' question 
yourself. If you want to give LiveCode programs you have written to 
someone else under non-GPL terms then you have to have a commercial 
license.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From heather at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 09:38:55 2016
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 14:38:55 +0000
Subject: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard
	question...")
In-Reply-To: <56D6F78C.20201@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
References: <56D6F78C.20201@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <A61DC690-E091-4315-9A9F-FC6FCE2A3043@livecode.com>

Dear Wilhelm,

I have explained to you what you actually have and why. These are the facts, it is unfortunate that you do not agree with them but they remain the facts. 

This is not a topic for this list. If you continue to post about your personal license issues here I will have no choice but to moderate those posts.

Regards,

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Mar 2016, at 14:24, sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de wrote:
> 
> While answering Matthias Rebbe Kevin Miller wrote on Tue, 01 Mar 2016 17:34:48:
> 
> 
>> (snip)
>>> I?ve reviewed the thread between Heather and Wilhelm and I can see that no
>>> such withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place. Wilhelm simply
>>> does not yet appear to fully understand the extensive explanation that
>>> Heather supplied. Perhaps we can improve the way we communicate these
>>> complexities in the future.
>>> 
>>> This list is definitely not the place to discuss this. I?m sure Heather
>>> and Wilhelm will reach a point of understanding through normal channels.
> 
> 
> It is a rather simplistic and convenient way to assume that I "simply do not yet appear to fully understand...." - and I think this needs to be commented here.
> 
> Given the present state of the discussion, in which Support simply refuses to drop some untenable and unsustainable arguments, I still have the impression that indeed a "withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place", like I have described it in my post.
> 
> I could quote a number of statements here that definitely leave no room for any misunderstandings.
> 
> I may take your "chiming in" as a positive note and an encouragement to try to "reach a point of understanding" and I hope you will second such attempts that could be beneficial for both sides. And we should have improved our ways to communicate already in the past. To that effect I had proposed to apply the principle of "intellectual honesty" in our discussions, which is a standard usually employed in academic or scientific discourses, but useful everywhere.
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> 
> 
> ---
> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 09:08:34 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 15:08:34 +0100
Subject: Summary: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
Message-ID: <9f56363c059080d35ab649dfb93ab969@livecode.com>

Hi all,

There has been a long thread discussing a number of different aspects 
relating to licensing and pricing. Thank you all for your input! In the 
interests of clarity, here is a summary of our position on the matters 
discussed.

PRICING
~~~~~~~

We are raising our prices - yes. We are not doing it suddenly, we have 
been and are doing it over a period of time. The reason we have staged 
price increases has been precisely because we know we have a great many 
long standing users who have supported us over the years and we wanted 
to insulate them from increases as a 'thank you' for that long support. 
We even recently ran an offer which allowed you to lock in the price of 
$299/year, and I?m pleased to see that many of you did so.

I'm minded of the following wee anecdote:

     A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God 
for help.

     Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on 
the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

     The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God 
and he is going to save me."

     So the rowboat went on.

     Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, 
"Jump in, I can save you."

     To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he 
is going to save me. I have faith."

     So the motorboat went on.

     Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this 
rope and I will lift you to safety."

     To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to 
God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

     So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

     Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went 
to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation 
with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you 
didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

     To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a 
helicopter, what more did you expect?"

Of course we wouldn't have even considered raising prices if we didn't 
believe it was warranted. We have made huge investments in the LiveCode 
product over the last few years and continue to do so. The quality of 
every release is the best it has ever been, thanks in part to the 
construction of an automated build and test system, but also because of 
the new talent we have been able to employ, who have brought their own 
years of expertise to our engineering process. The timeliness with which 
we are able to address bugs has increased substantially, and we are 
close to releasing LiveCode 8 which we hope will be as transformative 
for the LiveCode ecosystem as the explosion in VBX/OCX controls were to 
the Visual Basic world.

At the end of the day, LiveCode is important to a lot of people - 
whether they be users, company employees, shareholders or investors. 
LiveCode is also hugely expensive to develop and maintain and it is not 
going to get any cheaper to do so. There are simply an order of 
magnitude more things to consider when writing software at the level 
LiveCode has to be written at today compared to 10 years ago, and people 
expect software (particularly development tools) to do an order of 
magnitude more (which is entirely fair enough - but the more something 
does, the more it costs to produce and maintain). Please note, this is 
not a complaint on my part - part of the reason I do what I do and enjoy 
doing it is that I like the challenge of battling with large complex 
systems, and trying to simplify them (at least from the point of view 
from an outside observer/user).

Pricing is never an easy area and is always a balancing act. We do not 
take such decisions lightly. This is the path for LiveCode and its 
ecosystem as a whole, and unfortunately it is simply never possible to 
please everyone.

If you do have specific questions about pricing or related matters 
(particularly pertaining to your own situations) then please do remember 
that support at livecode.com is always there, and is generally the best 
place to have such discussions. Heather and Neil are always happy to 
receive your emails :)


LICENSING
~~~~~~~~~

There is a very simple rule to apply to work out whether you need a 
commercial license or not. If you need to ask 'do I need a commercial 
license' then you probably do. In particular, if you are asking that 
question to try to avoid paying for a commercial license then you almost 
certainly do.

The fact of the matter is that it comes down to one of the following:

     1) If you are happy to buy into the ideal of the GPL and abide by 
its terms then use the community edition.

     2) If not, buy a commercial edition.

The most critical thing to remember is that it is the *intent* of the 
GPL that actually matters and not the current text of any particular 
version. The simple reason for that is if the GPL is ever tested in 
court and the outcome is not favourable or contradicts any 
interpretation the FSF have made of it then the FSF will produce a new 
version which closes any loopholes which have been exposed in the court 
case. I can say for certain that if that does happen then we will 
immediately change the license of the community version of LiveCode to 
that new iteration. As the computer world evolves so fast, it really 
doesn't matter what source code is out there in the wild under the 
current version as that source will become obsolete in a relatively 
short space of time. (Also remember that all such legal wrangling takes 
a very very long time and no-one can really take any action until they 
are completely finished - for example the SCO case only recently finally 
got settled, and we still await the absolute final outcome of Google vs 
Oracle).

The intent of the GPL is clear - it is fundamentally about building an 
ecosystem of software where everyone has the right to contribute to it. 
Nothing more, nothing less. It is not an economic force (and thus has 
nothing to do with money) it is a creative force. It is about ensuring 
that if I receive a piece of software then I also have the right to 
modify and adapt that software and distribute any such modifications. 
Absolutely every piece of software is derived from a set of files which 
can be considered the 'source code' - whether that be actual 
source-code, artwork, music, prose, or whatever - which is then 
processed using some set of tools to produce something that you can 
actually run and use - this is always 100% crystal clear.

Some might challenge us on whether a script-only-stack written in a text 
editor has to be conveyed under the GPL, or whether stackfiles have to 
be conveyed under the GPL but any who do are missing the point of the 
intent of the GPL and trying to work around it. The FSF have made it 
crystal clear the Joomla and Wordpress plugins (which are just text 
files which you edit in an editor) are subject to the GPL's copyleft 
provision and I believe that there is simply no abstract model you can 
take which could justify LiveCode being considered differently from 
them. The point here is very subtle but I do believe it is happily 
covered by the standard notions of 'derivative work' and there is a 
simple acid test: could you have written the content of your 
script-only-stack text file without using the ideas, notions and 
existence of LiveCode? If yes, then the GPL does not apply as it is not 
a derivative work; if no then it most certainly does apply as your 
creative endeavour has been derived (if only in a small part) from 
LiveCode's.

A very colloquial, albeit slightly abstract, way of putting what the GPL 
is about is simply this:

     If you have stood on someone's shoulders to produce something and 
you
     then distribute it, you must allow the receivers of it to stand on 
your
     shoulders.

Which in completely concrete terms boils down to this:

     If you have LiveCode Community and do not have an active commercial 
license
     of one type or another and you write a LiveCode program (whatever 
form it takes)
     then whenever you give that program to someone else you must do so 
under the
     terms of the GPL.

If you don't wish to pay for a commercial license of some sort, then 
your option is to enter the GPL ecosystem of LiveCode Community and 
abide by its rules. If you do decide to pay for a commercial license 
then you can walk in both. I, personally, think that is entirely fair 
and reasonable.

Obviously support at livecode.com is always there to help answer your 
questions about licensing... However, please do remember that you can 
universally answer the 'do I need a commercial license' question 
yourself. If you want to give LiveCode programs you have written to 
someone else under non-GPL terms then you have to have a commercial 
license.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Mar  2 09:51:35 2016
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:51:35 -0500
Subject: Export & LC8 & Browser widget
In-Reply-To: <c1397fcd4ed55c61d44bcc8c663a4f91@livecode.com>
References: <4BB2875B-6457-4118-AA5A-CB559313DB40@icloud.com>
	<56D61A3A.2040504@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1ic+FD6MTESYuTyuGxHimjPJPN-15E4Xyzwk29geDZRGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C2B4036-4A79-4E96-AFA4-5C00C706B815@icloud.com>
	<dd0d835a8ebcde74b75d744db0b94bdb@livecode.com>
	<B46BE0DD-205D-4E05-8600-395032AB7CFF@icloud.com>
	<c2ed9fde399e7b7803a67c2681f77419@livecode.com>
	<3B349C44-A4A8-499F-B507-39AF6FF0868F@icloud.com>
	<c1397fcd4ed55c61d44bcc8c663a4f91@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-zY3-nnG4Sd7AAtfPwXGQhs_=p42wUgJvfF8UfuzuruA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:

> Take a look at the "do in widget" command in the dictionary.


This just made my day. Here I was thinking there was no two-way
communication.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com


From blueback09 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 10:02:21 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 07:02:21 -0800
Subject: Hey-Ho and Off We Go with HTML5
In-Reply-To: <56D6A488.4020702@gmail.com>
References: <56D49C12.8070105@gmail.com> <56D4A666.6090508@gmail.com>
	<56D4A7E6.1050706@gmail.com> <56D69DF7.9050903@gmail.com>
	<b507a8cb20cb0828702e647fcbf9dff5@livecode.com>
	<56D6A488.4020702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DqLYRg-O_FOFzmW7eEEbdqr38Z61hb-QB6OtTSbngq5Ug@mail.gmail.com>

You could try out the free tier of services like http://www.formmail.com/
or HTTP://www.SE dgrid.com
On Mar 2, 2016 00:30, "RM" <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 2.03.2016 10:18, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>
>> On 2016-03-02 09:01, RM wrote:
>>
>>> Preferably this would be WITHOUT the message having to go via the
>>> client's e-mail system as:
>>>
>>> 1.  The message should be anonymous.
>>>
>>> 2.  The end-user may have no e-mail client configured.
>>>
>>
>> Okay so there in terms of what you will be able to do in this regard with
>> the HTML5 engine there are two feasible options as far as I can see:
>>
>> 1) "launch url" with a 'mailto:' URL. This would invoke the locally
>> configured email client (and is what revMail does). This won't (I believe)
>> work in the HTML5 engine yet because we haven't hooked it up (to my
>> knowledge at least). I *think* this would be possible - Peter could perhaps
>> comment. (It would ask the hosting web-browser to launch the url).
>>
>> 2) Put a web-service on a server and get that to send the email. This
>> requires no client-side email configuration but does require configuring a
>> web-service to do it. Indeed, there might be third party services out there
>> which could be used. Again, Peter would have to comment on the feasibility
>> of whether this would work in the HTML5 engine at the moment since I cannot
>> recall off the top of my head which (if any) URL primitives we have yet
>> implemented.
>>
>> Warmest Regards,
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>>
> Thank you very much for a reply that is a statement of the /status quo/ as
> regards e-mailing from Livecode at the moment. This is extremely helpful as
> it gives me an idea of what I /can/ and /cannot/
> do at the moment in this regard.
>
> What I would like to do, ideally, is set up a chart of some sort with text
> entry fields for students to fill in
> online, then click a 'submit' button that will send the field entries as a
> list to an e-mail address.
>
> As the current revMail capabilities are not /currently/ implemented in the
> HTML5 engine that will have
> to wait.
>
> Am I right in understanding that, theoretically a least, the goal is to
> implement all the capabilities
> of Livecode into the HTML5 engine?
>
> Richmond.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar  2 10:44:15 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 07:44:15 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:

 > On 2016-03-02 06:46, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >> I confess my first reaction was that LC needs an interface designer.
 >
 > Ah - yes - those magical 'interface designers' who you just ask to
 > give you the perfect UI that *everyone* immediately understands and
 > knows how to use and works exactly how each individual wants it to
 > work ;)

There is no best; there is always better.

We could use reductio ad absurdum to trivialize any profession.  Where's 
the magical software engineer who can deliver perfect bug-free code on 
schedule every time? ;) I've never heard of such a thing; ours is an 
imperfect world defined by constraints.

UX professionals are moving fast up the org charts at some of the most 
profitable companies in the world because their work contributes to 
directly measurable sales growth.  In some companies UX is a strategic 
C-suite position.

Of course it's not possible to produce a single UI that will satisfy all 
possible use cases.

But I do hope we all keep an open mind and actively listen to 
suggestions from users.  Not all of them will be actionable, and some of 
them might not be all that useful, but many of them can lead to insights 
into ways to improve the LiveCode experience, and that benefits us all.

Hopefully one day LiveCode Ltd. will grow large enough to be able to 
hire a UX strategist, who could contribute to refining the UI as well as 
onboarding materials, marketing assets, and more, reducing ever further 
the distance between "What is this?" and "Yes I want this!"

The company is chock full of uncommonly smart people, but not everyone 
is a specialist in everything.  Let's leave the door open the continual 
improvement in design.

I know firsthand the team has been very receptive to good ideas well 
presented in enhancement requests.  So all I'm saying here is let's keep 
our ears and minds open as we continue our journey forward.

Corning Gorilla Glass was an interesting technology sitting on the shelf 
in their labs until a crazy UX strategist called them up and suggested 
it might be useful on a phone.  We just never know where the next useful 
idea might come from.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From gbojsza at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 11:05:02 2016
From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:05:02 -0500
Subject: OS X - how to write to a file associated as a Unix executable
In-Reply-To: <11a53e9b6fcb6d427f22919f95f7e58f@livecode.com>
References: <CACW8NbDfKjR6UxeJbN+PhcHOYdfhJ0T_YeBdevDiyKjojmuwdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D4DD0E.1070207@warrensweb.us>
	<CACW8NbApYkBB-m70eiUD+j2keOWHKppknPqJ9GxLW4bYw71geQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D4E7E4.50806@warrensweb.us>
	<CACW8NbAVB45YVoh68g_PqVQPRwgAFLbFcy6AZptXLc5VJh0xrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<11a53e9b6fcb6d427f22919f95f7e58f@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CACW8NbA6ExFOpRDzvuYc=6L+2DDHoKPta=dR0hHa3T9kf_DJHA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mark

That did it ... both methods of filetype allowed me to correctly get the
chmod results I was looking for.



On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 2:54 AM, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:

> On 2016-03-01 02:06, Glen Bojsza wrote:
>
>> What I am trying to do is within a LC application
>>
>> 1. put field "mytest" into URL "binfile:~/race"
>>
>> This creates a file called race in the ~/ directory.
>>
>> The problem is that when you do a chmod +rw race the file is still
>> recognized as textedit file and NOT a UNIX executable.
>>
>> When you look at a file created with LC and chmod  verses a file created
>> with textmate and chmod you can see the differences in the finder or get
>> info on both files and see the difference.
>>
>
> Try doing:
>
> set the fileType to "????????"
>
> or
>
> set the fileType to empty
>
> Before saving the file from LC.
>
> The default setting is "ttxtTEXT". I believe, these days, that Mac first
> looks at the file extension and then falls back to the filetype. As the
> engine is explicitly setting the fileType of saved files (by default) to
> text, the OS will pick up any files without extensions as text files.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 11:15:15 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 08:15:15 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D71193.8010709@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/01/2016 11:39 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> You can double click on an item in the Project Browser to select it on
> the card.

OK - that's getting pinned on the wall as well.
Is this stuff documented somewhere?

The User Guide is missing in action (bug 17054) and the "All User 
Guides" menu item just opens the dictionary which, at least on linux, is 
somewhat less than actually functional.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 11:21:03 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 08:21:03 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1456812351928-4701706.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<ACB7BEA6-BC20-4C3F-A627-C215C575D276@appisle.net>
	<56D5F91A.4000603@gmail.com> <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56D712EF.7030906@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/01/2016 09:35 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I have been trying to follow this thread, not always successfully, but
> common sense tells me:

Heh.
Common sense in a discussion of legal things.

Yesterday I was handed an nda to sign. There was a clause (yes, I 
actually do read these things) that started "Neither party will publicly 
disclose the existence of this document..." I recoiled, this caused a 
huddle of half a dozen people for several minutes, the company lawyer 
came over and sheepishly crossed out the paragraph, and we went on.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 11:23:36 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 16:23:36 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D71193.8010709@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71193.8010709@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D71388.6070604@livecode.com>

On 02/03/2016 16:15, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/01/2016 11:39 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
>> You can double click on an item in the Project Browser to select it on
>> the card.
>
> OK - that's getting pinned on the wall as well.
> Is this stuff documented somewhere?

See http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16609

> The User Guide is missing in action (bug 17054) and the "All User
> Guides" menu item just opens the dictionary which, at least on linux, is
> somewhat less than actually functional.

It opens the "Guides" tab of the dictionary stack, which on platforms 
where the browser widget works, displays the user guides (funnily enough).

                            Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 11:28:06 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 08:28:06 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/01/2016 11:39 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> You can double click on an item in the Project Browser to select it on
> the card.

Empirically...
You can double click on an item's icon to do that.
Double-clicking on the name allows you to edit the name.
Single-clicking a line in the PB has no appreciable effect (other than 
highlighting the line in the PB).

Double-clicking the mysterious lock icon with a "Show" tooltip also 
seems to select the highlighted object.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From rman at free.fr  Wed Mar  2 11:03:35 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 08:03:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Summary: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <9f56363c059080d35ab649dfb93ab969@livecode.com>
References: <9f56363c059080d35ab649dfb93ab969@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1456934615318-4701867.post@n4.nabble.com>

hi, thanks for confirming what I guess is motherships point of view.
That was'n at all crystal clear, but you now made it clear : 
no split license what so ever for live code community.

<< Absolutely every piece of software is derived from a set of files which 
can be considered the 'source code' - whether that be actual 
source-code, artwork, music, prose, or whatever - which is then 
processed using some set of tools to produce something that you can 
actually run and use - this is always 100% crystal clear. >>

It might be a good thing for the community to append your examples of when
to use Community and where to use Closed/commercial with that case with at
least the 2 following cases :

1) I intend to include in a community stack content that is outside of the
GPL scope => please use commercial version
2) i intend to test an app in the community by some distribution to some
public ==> please use commercial version

Finaly, your precise wording is quite wide, and that raises a question :

 ?? Does that paragraph cited above mean that live code would regard the
strategy of deploying a community "reader app" for a certain type of
separate content not welcomed as being outside the scope of the GPL mantra
as they see it??? Thanks for confirming that.

Robert




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Summary-Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701858p4701867.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar  2 11:33:05 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 08:33:05 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D712EF.7030906@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56D712EF.7030906@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D715C1.6070406@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

 > Yesterday I was handed an nda to sign. There was a clause (yes,
 > I actually do read these things) that started "Neither party will
 > publicly disclose the existence of this document..." I recoiled,
 > this caused a huddle of half a dozen people for several minutes,
 > the company lawyer came over and sheepishly crossed out the
 > paragraph, and we went on.

Good lawyer.

I know a lot of developers starting out who get timid about asking for 
contract changes. I had the good fortune of cutting my teeth in that 
area under an excellent manager who taught me about doing contract 
review with our clients' corporate counsel with this:

"Their job is to ask for the world.  Your job is to ask for half of it 
back."

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 11:04:26 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 17:04:26 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-02 16:44, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Mark Waddingham wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-03-02 06:46, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>> I confess my first reaction was that LC needs an interface designer.
>> 
>> Ah - yes - those magical 'interface designers' who you just ask to
>> give you the perfect UI that *everyone* immediately understands and
>> knows how to use and works exactly how each individual wants it to
>> work ;)
> 
> There is no best; there is always better.

Indeed - perfection is a journey, not a destination.

Just to clarify my comment, what I was trying to point out (in an 
attempt at a humourous way) is that invoking a 'interface designer' does 
not magically mean you end up with a user interface which any one person 
agrees with, or actually works for all use-cases. This does not mean to 
say that having a full time experienced dev-tool oriented UX designer 
wouldn't help immeasurably with the evolution of LiveCode's interface, 
but it certainly wouldn't be a magic wand which makes things better 
overnight.

My observation over the years that regardless of the UX design 
experience of the person designing things developing a good UI comes 
down to dialog between the designer(s) and the user(s); and as with all 
things it generally comes down to compromise.

I do think this has been occurring quite healthily recently with regards 
LC8 and, indeed, some of the tweaks that have been made to the project 
browser (in particular its selection / highlighting logic) have been a 
direct result of discussion with individuals who have pointed out 
certain flaws and I do hope that will continue.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From rman at free.fr  Wed Mar  2 11:25:24 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 08:25:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D715C1.6070406@fourthworld.com>
References: <1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D712EF.7030906@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D715C1.6070406@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1456935924989-4701870.post@n4.nabble.com>

yap.. in that respect.. with all respect to live code and every team member..
I honestly earnastly was astonished by the virulence of the clause
forbidding any tier to take a community work and turn it into a commercial
application.

I sort of "naively" believed that there was quite a good positive ecosystem
between community hobbyist or a specially updated desktop only hobiist
version because things have become so complex that to fine tune a hobbits
app into an iOS app a guy who already is experienced in bringing an app to
IOs  could well be a very good thing.

But then it's.. none of my business...
I just needed to know where to stand on.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701870.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 12:02:10 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:02:10 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D71388.6070604@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71193.8010709@ahsoftware.net> <56D71388.6070604@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D71C92.3080400@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 08:23 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 02/03/2016 16:15, Mark Wieder wrote:
>> On 03/01/2016 11:39 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>>
>>> You can double click on an item in the Project Browser to select it on
>>> the card.
>>
>> OK - that's getting pinned on the wall as well.
>> Is this stuff documented somewhere?
>
> See http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16609
>
>> The User Guide is missing in action (bug 17054) and the "All User
>> Guides" menu item just opens the dictionary which, at least on linux, is
>> somewhat less than actually functional.
>
> It opens the "Guides" tab of the dictionary stack, which on platforms
> where the browser widget works, displays the user guides (funnily enough).

OK. Fair enough. So I opened the User Guide for LC 7.1.2, and that 
brought up the pdf (User Guide 4.5 - Revision 19), which has no mention 
of the Project Browser.

In 7.1.2, selecting "All Guides" goes to the LC website, where I can 
select the "Beginners-Guide" (not sure why the hyphenation), then 
control-F to search for "Project". There's a single image there, and I 
assume that this is the same content that would appear if there were an 
actual User Guide pdf. I do see some explanatory text, but nothing like 
the discussions here. And I'm still mystified about the lock icon with 
the tooltip of "Show" and the explanation of "Selectability".

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk  Wed Mar  2 12:05:41 2016
From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 17:05:41 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>,
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>,
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W6771545D847E494F690A26EDBC0@phx.gbl>


> 
> Indeed - perfection is a journey, not a destination.
> 
> Just to clarify my comment, what I was trying to point out (in an 
> attempt at a humourous way) is that invoking a 'interface designer' does 
> not magically mean you end up with a user interface which any one person 
> agrees with, or actually works for all use-cases. This does not mean to 
> say that having a full time experienced dev-tool oriented UX designer 
> wouldn't help immeasurably with the evolution of LiveCode's interface, 
> but it certainly wouldn't be a magic wand which makes things better 
> overnight.
> 
> My observation over the years that regardless of the UX design 
> experience of the person designing things developing a good UI comes 
> down to dialog between the designer(s) and the user(s); and as with all 
> things it generally comes down to compromise.

Anyone in Edinburgh considered asking Scott Rossi how much time he has on his hands ? :-)


 		 	   		  

From tore.nilsen at me.com  Wed Mar  2 12:09:37 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 18:09:37 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D71C92.3080400@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71193.8010709@ahsoftware.net> <56D71388.6070604@livecode.com>
	<56D71C92.3080400@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <43A71BC4-5F72-4E31-805F-DF32A4CA33A5@me.com>

Have you tried looking for it in LC 8, which seems to be the version discussed in this thread?

Tore


> 2. mar. 2016 kl. 18.02 skrev Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>:
> 
> On 03/02/2016 08:23 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>> On 02/03/2016 16:15, Mark Wieder wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2016 11:39 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You can double click on an item in the Project Browser to select it on
>>>> the card.
>>> 
>>> OK - that's getting pinned on the wall as well.
>>> Is this stuff documented somewhere?
>> 
>> See http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16609
>> 
>>> The User Guide is missing in action (bug 17054) and the "All User
>>> Guides" menu item just opens the dictionary which, at least on linux, is
>>> somewhat less than actually functional.
>> 
>> It opens the "Guides" tab of the dictionary stack, which on platforms
>> where the browser widget works, displays the user guides (funnily enough).
> 
> OK. Fair enough. So I opened the User Guide for LC 7.1.2, and that brought up the pdf (User Guide 4.5 - Revision 19), which has no mention of the Project Browser.
> 
> In 7.1.2, selecting "All Guides" goes to the LC website, where I can select the "Beginners-Guide" (not sure why the hyphenation), then control-F to search for "Project". There's a single image there, and I assume that this is the same content that would appear if there were an actual User Guide pdf. I do see some explanatory text, but nothing like the discussions here. And I'm still mystified about the lock icon with the tooltip of "Show" and the explanation of "Selectability".
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com <mailto:ahsoftware at gmail.com>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 12:13:26 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:13:26 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 08:04 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:

> I do think this has been occurring quite healthily recently with regards
> LC8 and, indeed, some of the tweaks that have been made to the project
> browser (in particular its selection / highlighting logic) have been a
> direct result of discussion with individuals who have pointed out
> certain flaws and I do hope that will continue.

I'm sure that over time the new paradigms will become ingrained and the 
former muscle memory will fade.

The tiny gray-on-gray icons, though, are another matter. I shudder to 
think of the universe in which someone thought that was a Good Idea. I 
realize that this was no doubt the result of careful A-B testing with 
developer usability focus groups, but nonetheless...

The eldritch gods are starting to awaken.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 12:14:14 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:14:14 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W6771545D847E494F690A26EDBC0@phx.gbl>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<DUB114-W6771545D847E494F690A26EDBC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <56D71F65.9010500@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 09:05 AM, John Dixon wrote:

> Anyone in Edinburgh considered asking Scott Rossi how much time he has on his hands ? :-)

LOL. +1

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 12:14:55 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:14:55 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <43A71BC4-5F72-4E31-805F-DF32A4CA33A5@me.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71193.8010709@ahsoftware.net> <56D71388.6070604@livecode.com>
	<56D71C92.3080400@ahsoftware.net>
	<43A71BC4-5F72-4E31-805F-DF32A4CA33A5@me.com>
Message-ID: <56D71F8F.8090505@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 09:09 AM, Tore Nilsen wrote:
> Have you tried looking for it in LC 8, which seems to be the version discussed in this thread?

Read the previous post.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 12:23:23 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 19:23:23 +0200
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>



On 2.03.2016 19:13, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/02/2016 08:04 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>
>> I do think this has been occurring quite healthily recently with regards
>> LC8 and, indeed, some of the tweaks that have been made to the project
>> browser (in particular its selection / highlighting logic) have been a
>> direct result of discussion with individuals who have pointed out
>> certain flaws and I do hope that will continue.
>
> I'm sure that over time the new paradigms will become ingrained and 
> the former muscle memory will fade.
>
> The tiny gray-on-gray icons, though, are another matter. I shudder to 
> think of the universe in which someone thought that was a Good Idea. I 
> realize that this was no doubt the result of careful A-B testing with 
> developer usability focus groups, but nonetheless...

+1

Richmond

>
> The eldritch gods are starting to awaken.
> Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
>




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar  2 13:27:04 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 10:27:04 -0800
Subject: Request: Markdown functions
Message-ID: <56D73078.6050204@fourthworld.com>

I need two functions for a community project I'm working on:

MarkdownToHtmltext -- converts Github Markdown the LC's htmlText

HtmltextToMarkdown -- converts content and the subset of relevant
                       text styling attributes LC fields offer into
                       Github-flavored Markdown

These need to be available under either GPL or GPL-compatible license.

If you have such things please point me to them.

If not I'll adapt some code I wrote for my WebMerge product and post it 
on Github under GPLv3.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  LiveCode Community Manager
  richard at livecode.org



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar  2 13:29:54 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 10:29:54 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D73122.1080607@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

 > The tiny gray-on-gray icons, though, are another matter. I shudder to
 > think of the universe in which someone thought that was a Good Idea.

At the top of the window or somewhere else?

At once point I'd submitted a request to use the large icon option for 
the top panel as the default, and that was implemented (thanks, Ali!).

So if you're seeing smaller icons there that's a regression.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 13:30:59 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 20:30:59 +0200
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D73163.1040302@gmail.com>



On 2.03.2016 19:13, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/02/2016 08:04 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>
>> I do think this has been occurring quite healthily recently with regards
>> LC8 and, indeed, some of the tweaks that have been made to the project
>> browser (in particular its selection / highlighting logic) have been a
>> direct result of discussion with individuals who have pointed out
>> certain flaws and I do hope that will continue.
>
> I'm sure that over time the new paradigms will become ingrained and 
> the former muscle memory will fade.
>
> The tiny gray-on-gray icons, though, are another matter. I shudder to 
> think of the universe in which someone thought that was a Good Idea. I 
> realize that this was no doubt the result of careful A-B testing with 
> developer usability focus groups, but nonetheless...

I've been mucking around in the IDE and seem unable to find the icons, 
and assume that, like the new BW menuBar icons they are stored "off 
campus" and referenced:

But I am bu**ered if I can find them.

Richmond.
>
> The eldritch gods are starting to awaken.
> Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
>




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar  2 14:53:03 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 13:53:03 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D7449F.904@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/2/2016 10:04 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> Just to clarify my comment, what I was trying to point out (in an
> attempt at a humourous way) is that invoking a 'interface designer' does
> not magically mean you end up with a user interface which any one person
> agrees with, or actually works for all use-cases.

Oh yes, absolutely, and I've found the team to be remarkably responsive. 
I was very impressed with Ali, he really listened and was intent on 
making the IDE as perfect as possible. I wanted to hug him, I was that 
happy.

That said, there are certain established expectations for how computer 
interfaces work, how people read/scan written material, how layouts are 
most easily accessed, and so forth. Every time a tool breaks any of 
those expectations the user will be frustrated or annoyed, even if it is 
just momentary. That's what happened to me when I recently started to 
explore the new IDE.

I have very strong motivations to use LC, it's my whole business. But I 
was frustrated enough that I went back to vs 7 after each attempt with 
8. I will learn it eventually, and I'm willing to do so, but I wonder 
about the new users we want to court. If they need to read documentation 
(currently lacking) and expend a lot of effort to learn how a tool works 
("selections aren't as you'd expect, we do it this way,") they won't 
bother. We'll lose them.

I could make a list if that would help. There are too many small things 
to write reports about each one, but I do think that attention to these 
little details would improve the user experience. The team may think my 
criticisms are trivial, but they did cause me trouble. And I very much 
want new users to intuit the IDE immediately and get drawn in. Surely 
making them fight their instincts can't be productive.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar  2 14:54:02 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 06:54:02 +1100
Subject: Request: Markdown functions
In-Reply-To: <56D73078.6050204@fourthworld.com>
References: <56D73078.6050204@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9E841181-78DE-4806-8B73-7F8807784C69@appisle.net>

mergMarkdown is my external that does Markdown to HTML. It is fully cross platform and MIT licensed. It is based on the sundown library which is also MIT licensed. I don?t have anything that can do the reverse sorry?

> On 3 Mar 2016, at 5:27 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> I need two functions for a community project I'm working on:
> 
> MarkdownToHtmltext -- converts Github Markdown the LC's htmlText
> 
> HtmltextToMarkdown -- converts content and the subset of relevant
>                      text styling attributes LC fields offer into
>                      Github-flavored Markdown
> 
> These need to be available under either GPL or GPL-compatible license.
> 
> If you have such things please point me to them.
> 
> If not I'll adapt some code I wrote for my WebMerge product and post it on Github under GPLv3.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> LiveCode Community Manager
> richard at livecode.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 15:10:20 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 22:10:20 +0200
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D7449F.904@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D7449F.904@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56D748AC.3070402@gmail.com>



On 2.03.2016 21:53, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/2/2016 10:04 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>> Just to clarify my comment, what I was trying to point out (in an
>> attempt at a humourous way) is that invoking a 'interface designer' does
>> not magically mean you end up with a user interface which any one person
>> agrees with, or actually works for all use-cases.
>
> Oh yes, absolutely, and I've found the team to be remarkably 
> responsive. I was very impressed with Ali, he really listened and was 
> intent on making the IDE as perfect as possible. I wanted to hug him, 
> I was that happy.
>
> That said, there are certain established expectations for how computer 
> interfaces work, how people read/scan written material, how layouts 
> are most easily accessed, and so forth. Every time a tool breaks any 
> of those expectations the user will be frustrated or annoyed, even if 
> it is just momentary. That's what happened to me when I recently 
> started to explore the new IDE.
>
> I have very strong motivations to use LC, it's my whole business. But 
> I was frustrated enough that I went back to vs 7 after each attempt 
> with 8. I will learn it eventually, and I'm willing to do so, but I 
> wonder about the new users we want to court. If they need to read 
> documentation (currently lacking) and expend a lot of effort to learn 
> how a tool works ("selections aren't as you'd expect, we do it this 
> way,") they won't bother. We'll lose them.
>
> I could make a list if that would help. There are too many small 
> things to write reports about each one, but I do think that attention 
> to these little details would improve the user experience. The team 
> may think my criticisms are trivial, but they did cause me trouble. 
> And I very much want new users to intuit the IDE immediately and get 
> drawn in. Surely making them fight their instincts can't be productive.
>

I am actually quite curious as to why the Livecode team decided to 
change the Properties palette
so radically.

R.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 15:46:45 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 12:46:45 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D748AC.3070402@gmail.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D7449F.904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D748AC.3070402@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D75135.6010505@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 12:10 PM, RM wrote:

> I am actually quite curious as to why the Livecode team decided to
> change the Properties palette so radically.

<warning: weirdly mixed metaphors ahead>

To be fair about that, the current/previous/whatever property inspector 
leaves a lot to be desired. There's been much complaining over the 
years, and not just by the two of us. But I find the newer PI not so 
much a radical change from the earlier one. I'm not averse to radical 
changes, but it seems like the older PI in a new bottle. And the new 
bottle doesn't seem like a big step forward.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 15:54:08 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 12:54:08 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D7449F.904@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D7449F.904@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56D752F0.10503@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 11:53 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Oh yes, absolutely, and I've found the team to be remarkably responsive.
> I was very impressed with Ali, he really listened and was intent on
> making the IDE as perfect as possible. I wanted to hug him, I was that
> happy.

And not just Ali, the whole team is very responsive. I'll continue to 
carp about things here as necessary, but I'm very impressed with the 
progress this huge project is making.

>
> That said, there are certain established expectations for how computer
> interfaces work,

Sometimes it's necessary to break the rules, but otherwise I think the 
Principle of Least Surprise would dictate that we would go with whatever 
the user expects from the OS guidelines.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 16:27:30 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 23:27:30 +0200
Subject: Those Black and White icons in the revMenubar stack in LC 8
Message-ID: <56D75AC2.3050309@gmail.com>

Here's my hack to replace them with the previous multicoloured ones, at 
your own
risk:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26506&p=139069#p139069

Love, Richmond.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 16:37:51 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 21:37:51 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>

On 02/03/2016 17:23, RM wrote:
> +1

Please don't do this.  If you don't have anything substantive to 
contribute to the conversation, please don't waste the inbox space of 
hundreds of mailing list users.

                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Wed Mar  2 16:45:45 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 16:45:45 -0500
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
wrote:

> On 02/03/2016 17:23, RM wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>
> Please don't do this.  If you don't have anything substantive to
> contribute to the conversation, please don't waste the inbox space of
> hundreds of mailing list users.
>
>                         Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>

I very much dislike those super dark icons in the new IDE.  Especially when
the icons in the Tools menu are a completely different shade of gray.  They
should be consistent across the IDE.  I also dislike jerks.

~Roger


From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 16:57:56 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 21:57:56 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com>

On 02/03/2016 21:45, Roger Eller wrote:
>
> I very much dislike those super dark icons in the new IDE.  Especially when
> the icons in the Tools menu are a completely different shade of gray.  They
> should be consistent across the IDE.  I also dislike jerks.

Thank you.

Which specific "icons in the Tools menu" are you referring to?  I don't 
seem to have any icons in the "Tools" menu on my system.  Do you mean 
the widget icons in the upper half of the Tools palette, or the 
miniature pictures of controls in the in the lower half of the tools 
palette, or should I be looking somewhere else entirely?

It might be quite straightforward to tweak the colour used to draw the 
widget icons, so it might be a quick fix.

                                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar  2 17:08:57 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 22:08:57 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>

On 02/03/2016 16:28, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/01/2016 11:39 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
>> You can double click on an item in the Project Browser to select it on
>> the card.
>
> Empirically...
> You can double click on an item's icon to do that.
> Double-clicking on the name allows you to edit the name.
> Single-clicking a line in the PB has no appreciable effect (other than
> highlighting the line in the PB).
>
> Double-clicking the mysterious lock icon with a "Show" tooltip also
> seems to select the highlighted object.

Thanks -- that's a much more complete / thorough explanation than I 
managed to give.  The Project Browser tries to fit a lot of features 
into a small amount of space and I'm not convinced that we've found the 
most efficient way to pack them.

In the core dev team we use the Project Browser a *lot* when working on 
the IDE.  But we probably use it in a different way to the way many 
people developing apps with the IDE use it.  We need to get more 
feedback about what it does well (so we don't mess with those parts) and 
clear feedback about specific things it does badly (so we can tweak them).

I'm not entirely sure what the "mysterious lock icon with a 'Show' 
tootip" is for... I haven't used it yet.

                                     Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 17:21:58 2016
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 00:21:58 +0200
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com> <56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>

The "mysterious lock icon with a 'Show' tootip" is setting the cantSelect
property of the control. The tooltip should reflect that though, so we have
to update it.

Panos
--

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 12:08 AM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
wrote:

> On 02/03/2016 16:28, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
>> On 03/01/2016 11:39 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>>
>> You can double click on an item in the Project Browser to select it on
>>> the card.
>>>
>>
>> Empirically...
>> You can double click on an item's icon to do that.
>> Double-clicking on the name allows you to edit the name.
>> Single-clicking a line in the PB has no appreciable effect (other than
>> highlighting the line in the PB).
>>
>> Double-clicking the mysterious lock icon with a "Show" tooltip also
>> seems to select the highlighted object.
>>
>
> Thanks -- that's a much more complete / thorough explanation than I
> managed to give.  The Project Browser tries to fit a lot of features into a
> small amount of space and I'm not convinced that we've found the most
> efficient way to pack them.
>
> In the core dev team we use the Project Browser a *lot* when working on
> the IDE.  But we probably use it in a different way to the way many people
> developing apps with the IDE use it.  We need to get more feedback about
> what it does well (so we don't mess with those parts) and clear feedback
> about specific things it does badly (so we can tweak them).
>
> I'm not entirely sure what the "mysterious lock icon with a 'Show' tootip"
> is for... I haven't used it yet.
>
>                                     Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Wed Mar  2 17:26:02 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 17:26:02 -0500
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
wrote:

> On 02/03/2016 21:45, Roger Eller wrote:
>
>>
>> I very much dislike those super dark icons in the new IDE.  Especially
>> when
>> the icons in the Tools menu are a completely different shade of gray.
>> They
>> should be consistent across the IDE.  I also dislike jerks.
>>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Which specific "icons in the Tools menu" are you referring to?  I don't
> seem to have any icons in the "Tools" menu on my system.  Do you mean the
> widget icons in the upper half of the Tools palette, or the miniature
> pictures of controls in the in the lower half of the tools palette, or
> should I be looking somewhere else entirely?
>
> It might be quite straightforward to tweak the colour used to draw the
> widget icons, so it might be a quick fix.
>
>                                         Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>

Tools pallette (not menu).  Yes, the widget icons are gray, but the new
flat icons across the top (Inspector, Code, Message Box, etc.) are pure
black.  I would rather see a more consistent appearance for all icons in
the IDE.


From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Mar  2 17:39:18 2016
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 22:39:18 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2FDB502.1E8B3%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

On 3/03/2016 9:26 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Roger Eller"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com> wrote:


>Tools pallette (not menu).  Yes, the widget icons are gray, but the new
>flat icons across the top (Inspector, Code, Message Box, etc.) are pure
>black.  I would rather see a more consistent appearance for all icons in
>the IDE.

I think you?re right. I?m more concerned with how things work than how
they look but there is a bit on inconsistency around the intensity of
black/grey used in icons - and text - across the menubar, tool palette,
stack/card/object inspector and project browser. As far as the latest
incarnation of the project browser goes I quite like it - certainly enough
to not really miss the application browser now it has gone. The selection
indicator (dotted outline) is useful but it doesn?t immediately update
when you select an object/control by double-clicking an item in the
browser.

Terry...




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar  2 17:42:13 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 14:42:13 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>

I haven't used the Tools palette in years, but this conversation 
prompted me to take a gander.

I wonder if having the Widgets above the basic controls is the best 
place for them.

I tend to think of UIs as telling a story, and sometimes that can 
include communicating the importance of things by their placement.

Having the Browse and Pointer tools at the top, and giving them the 
largest target area, seem like good choices given their very central 
role throughout development.

But I'll spend weeks at a time adding only buttons and fields to cards, 
only occasionally using anything else.

The Widgets, while both useful and cool, are less commonly used. 
Indeed, most projects will use most of them once or twice if at all.

Given this, I wonder if it makes more communicative sense to consider 
moving the basic controls above the Widgets, closer to the always-used 
Browse and Pointer icons.

I might even go so far as to consider moving the graphics above Widgets 
as well, to be consistent in terms of frequency of use, though I 
recognize that the paint tools are perhaps the least commonly used of 
all, and they make sense being grouped near the drawing tools, so 
perhaps leaving that whole set at the bottom is fine, and we could just 
consider moving the basic tools (buttons, fields, and such) above the 
Widgets.

Any opinions on this?


PS: What happens when one has 100 Widgets installed?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar  2 17:54:43 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 22:54:43 +0000
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <D2FB446E.7B699%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<7AADDD8D-6FF0-486D-BF18-1B166E385BB1@mac.com>
	<D2FB446E.7B699%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56d76f31.7ab4cc0.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Aloha Paul:

wow... awesome.. you did it! this works perfectly as needed.

So I can just set up a template button and store this and create all new buttons according.

Outstanding.. Big Mahalo from Hawaii

BR

On March 1, 2016 at 11:26:57 AM, Scott Rossi (scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:

By adjusting some colour values and the ink mode I could achieve what I think you are looking for, however I may have misunderstood, because I don?t quite understand the bit about having 50% opacity of a clear background!

Link to demo stack with my interpretation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhjqlx0zhdeyq2f/Button%20Demo.livecode?dl=0

HTH

Paul

From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Mar  2 17:55:56 2016
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 22:55:56 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E95BB202-CC67-409F-994A-8AC20A55D25E@byu.edu>


> On Mar 2, 2016, at 3:42 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at FourthWorld.com> wrote:
> 
> I haven't used the Tools palette in years, but this conversation prompted me to take a gander.
> 
> I wonder if having the Widgets above the basic controls is the best place for them.
> 
> I tend to think of UIs as telling a story, and sometimes that can include communicating the importance of things by their placement.
> 
> Having the Browse and Pointer tools at the top, and giving them the largest target area, seem like good choices given their very central role throughout development.
> 
> But I'll spend weeks at a time adding only buttons and fields to cards, only occasionally using anything else.
> 
> The Widgets, while both useful and cool, are less commonly used. Indeed, most projects will use most of them once or twice if at all.
> 
> Given this, I wonder if it makes more communicative sense to consider moving the basic controls above the Widgets, closer to the always-used Browse and Pointer icons.
> 
> I might even go so far as to consider moving the graphics above Widgets as well, to be consistent in terms of frequency of use, though I recognize that the paint tools are perhaps the least commonly used of all, and they make sense being grouped near the drawing tools, so perhaps leaving that whole set at the bottom is fine, and we could just consider moving the basic tools (buttons, fields, and such) above the Widgets.
> 
> Any opinions on this?

I?m with you on this, Richard. The tools palette is getting very cluttery, and could stand a tidying up. For instance, right now there are:
- 5 button tools
- 5 field tools
- 5 menu button tools
- 4 scrollbar tools

Would it make sense to fold each object class into a single tool with an option to set a different style of each object as the default? Sort of how Photoshop?s tools palette lets you select the type of marquee tool (or shape tool, or magic wand tool, etc. etc.) that is the default.

> 
> 
> PS: What happens when one has 100 Widgets installed?

Right. Now you can choose to hide or show entire sections of the tools palette. (Although I had somehow completely missed that option, and only noticed it when someone here referred to it.)

I?d like to see an option to display only selected widgets (or other tools) on the tools palette.


Devin


Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar  2 17:57:57 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 22:57:57 +0000
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <D2FB446E.7B699%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<7AADDD8D-6FF0-486D-BF18-1B166E385BB1@mac.com>
	<D2FB446E.7B699%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<D2FB446E.7B699%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56d76ff5.72cd9856.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>

@ Scott

Thank you.


Actually all these other methods have their use cases. Yes, am familiar with using other controls as "buttons" anything with a mouseUp script will do the job in 80% of the cases.

BR


On March 1, 2016 at 11:26:57 AM, Scott Rossi (scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:

Another option similar to Randy's is to create an image tile -- for
example, a 48x48 white PNG that's 50% opaque -- and assign this as the
backPattern of the button. Using this method you can scale the button to
any size and the translucency will fill accordingly. You can also assign
a separate icon if desired.

Unless you REALLY need the properties of a button control, you can also
consider other objects to act as buttons, such as graphics, where you can
employ a translucent gradient fill to the control, or fields, where you
can create the effect of a label that has multiple text styles. There are
several options for create button-style controls.

From pete at lcsql.com  Wed Mar  2 18:14:16 2016
From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 23:14:16 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <E95BB202-CC67-409F-994A-8AC20A55D25E@byu.edu>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<E95BB202-CC67-409F-994A-8AC20A55D25E@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAGDT7ePf6DbZi9bZOg1cc8-AAtuK5EEgUEdd138E+t+3zcp-gQ@mail.gmail.com>

An lcstackbrowser user requested the "single tool with option to set the
style "some time ago and I implemented it.  It takes a lot less screen
space and I think is useful for experienced users but might be a little
daunting for new users.

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 2:56 PM Devin Asay <devin_asay at byu.edu> wrote:

>
> > On Mar 2, 2016, at 3:42 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at FourthWorld.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I haven't used the Tools palette in years, but this conversation
> prompted me to take a gander.
> >
> > I wonder if having the Widgets above the basic controls is the best
> place for them.
> >
> > I tend to think of UIs as telling a story, and sometimes that can
> include communicating the importance of things by their placement.
> >
> > Having the Browse and Pointer tools at the top, and giving them the
> largest target area, seem like good choices given their very central role
> throughout development.
> >
> > But I'll spend weeks at a time adding only buttons and fields to cards,
> only occasionally using anything else.
> >
> > The Widgets, while both useful and cool, are less commonly used. Indeed,
> most projects will use most of them once or twice if at all.
> >
> > Given this, I wonder if it makes more communicative sense to consider
> moving the basic controls above the Widgets, closer to the always-used
> Browse and Pointer icons.
> >
> > I might even go so far as to consider moving the graphics above Widgets
> as well, to be consistent in terms of frequency of use, though I recognize
> that the paint tools are perhaps the least commonly used of all, and they
> make sense being grouped near the drawing tools, so perhaps leaving that
> whole set at the bottom is fine, and we could just consider moving the
> basic tools (buttons, fields, and such) above the Widgets.
> >
> > Any opinions on this?
>
> I?m with you on this, Richard. The tools palette is getting very cluttery,
> and could stand a tidying up. For instance, right now there are:
> - 5 button tools
> - 5 field tools
> - 5 menu button tools
> - 4 scrollbar tools
>
> Would it make sense to fold each object class into a single tool with an
> option to set a different style of each object as the default? Sort of how
> Photoshop?s tools palette lets you select the type of marquee tool (or
> shape tool, or magic wand tool, etc. etc.) that is the default.
>
> >
> >
> > PS: What happens when one has 100 Widgets installed?
>
> Right. Now you can choose to hide or show entire sections of the tools
> palette. (Although I had somehow completely missed that option, and only
> noticed it when someone here referred to it.)
>
> I?d like to see an option to display only selected widgets (or other
> tools) on the tools palette.
>
>
> Devin
>
>
> Devin Asay
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Wed Mar  2 18:05:27 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 18:05:27 -0500
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXP1y6J2VN24TzQBBmi8jg370vqttyP6i9aUnxxoCtqm+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 5:42 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> I haven't used the Tools palette in years, but this conversation prompted
> me to take a gander.
>
> I wonder if having the Widgets above the basic controls is the best place
> for them.
>
>
Tools palette.  Widgets palette.  Separate and simple, with room to grow.

~Roger


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar  2 19:09:39 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 18:09:39 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

On March 2, 2016 4:43:21 PM Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>
> Given this, I wonder if it makes more communicative sense to consider
> moving the basic controls above the Widgets, closer to the always-used
> Browse and Pointer icons.


That was one of the things on my imaginary list. I'd like to see widgets at 
the bottom of the tool palette where they are out of the way, and where 
there is room for expansion as more become available. The primary hit 
regions will always be the browse and edit tools, and they need to be 
slightly larger than all the others and at the top where the user's eye 
will focus first.

Widgets are also a little too large compared to the other icons, and too 
dark, which makes them visually distracting. They also don't match the rest 
of the interface. Most professional teams create a particular color palette 
early on that will represent their brand and all interface elements must 
adhere to it. Apple uses blue, Google centers around certain saturations of 
primary colors, etc.  LC should choose a color scheme and use it throughout 
to visually integrate all components.

I'd avoid greys except as backgrounds. Very dark gray is okay for text but 
not so good for primary icons, it's too overbearing. Very light grey is 
difficult to see, and also implies less importance (temporary text in 
fields is often light grey, for example, to indicate the text will 
disappear when the user starts typing.)

I do favor functionality over appearance, but the sad fact is that new 
users will base their first impressions of the product on how it looks. 
These are some of the small details that matter for a professional 
presentation.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 19:55:40 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 16:55:40 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net> <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 02:21 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
> The "mysterious lock icon with a 'Show' tootip" is setting the cantSelect
> property of the control. The tooltip should reflect that though, so we have
> to update it.

Ah. Thanks.

I'm curious, though, about the decision process that moved the 
cantSelect property up the pantheon of properties out of the Property 
Inspector and into the Project Browser. Is there something particular 
about cantSelect that makes it more important than other properties?

Just curious because there are lots of properties I fiddle with 
regularly, and I don't think I have ever set the cantSelect on an object.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 20:11:23 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 17:11:23 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56D78F3B.7080303@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 04:09 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I do favor functionality over appearance, but the sad fact is that new
> users will base their first impressions of the product on how it looks.
> These are some of the small details that matter for a professional
> presentation.

Coming soon...

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26133#p135929

Holding off an official release because LC8 is still in flux.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar  2 20:13:29 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 12:13:29 +1100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CF40678B-9888-4246-BFE3-5F2CA7C3B1B8@appisle.net>


> On 3 Mar 2016, at 11:09 AM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
> 
> On March 2, 2016 4:43:21 PM Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Given this, I wonder if it makes more communicative sense to consider
>> moving the basic controls above the Widgets, closer to the always-used
>> Browse and Pointer icons.
> 
> 
> That was one of the things on my imaginary list. I'd like to see widgets at the bottom of the tool palette where they are out of the way, and where there is room for expansion as more become available. The primary hit regions will always be the browse and edit tools, and they need to be slightly larger than all the others and at the top where the user's eye will focus first.

I?m not sure if ?out of the way? is exactly the direction the platform is heading. Once there are a much larger range of widgets we might not be using legacy controls that much any more. At the moment you can choose if you want to hide a group. I just hid the paint tools because I can?t remember ever using those? It would be nice if we could manage and order (top to bottom) our own groups of controls. I think this will be where we need to go when we have the ?problem" of dealing with too many widgets. That and the ability to nest a set of controls into a popup button within another group of controls which was suggested earlier. As the LC 8.x series matures I expect these kinds of solutions will be a natural progression and likely arrive before or just in time for when they are needed.

> I'd avoid greys except as backgrounds. Very dark gray is okay for text but not so good for primary icons, it's too overbearing. Very light grey is difficult to see, and also implies less importance (temporary text in fields is often light grey, for example, to indicate the text will disappear when the user starts typing.)

I?d like to see this and a great many other colors in the UI be user settings along with an easy way to share such settings between users.

Cheers

Monte


From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar  2 20:14:59 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 12:14:59 +1100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com> <56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CD9FB6A4-E20D-427C-9079-E4E663CDE077@appisle.net>


> On 3 Mar 2016, at 11:55 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm curious, though, about the decision process that moved the cantSelect property up the pantheon of properties out of the Property Inspector and into the Project Browser. Is there something particular about cantSelect that makes it more important than other properties?
> 
> Just curious because there are lots of properties I fiddle with regularly, and I don't think I have ever set the cantSelect on an object.

It was in the application browser so it may be a case of it has always been there? that and if you can?t select an object it is just that bit harder to present its inspector?

Cheers

Monte

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar  2 20:17:17 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 17:17:17 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net> <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D7909D.9050906@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/02/2016 02:08 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> Thanks -- that's a much more complete / thorough explanation than I
> managed to give.  The Project Browser tries to fit a lot of features
> into a small amount of space and I'm not convinced that we've found the
> most efficient way to pack them.
>
> In the core dev team we use the Project Browser a *lot* when working on
> the IDE.  But we probably use it in a different way to the way many
> people developing apps with the IDE use it.  We need to get more
> feedback about what it does well (so we don't mess with those parts) and
> clear feedback about specific things it does badly (so we can tweak them).

Well, the PreferencesUI stack has a panel for the Application Browser 
where you can set actions for various object types. But the Project 
Browser doesn't respect these settings. As a start, it might be nice to 
have these carry over so that when a user migrates from the AB to the PB 
and double-clicks a card, for instance, she doesn't have to wonder why 
the property inspector doesn't pop up.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 21:25:36 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 02:25:36 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV9S0WpZqEn=XkwhXXqRKML-eFB+cXHfQ4_e6suGY4giVA@mail.gmail.com>

I really like this comment from Jacqueline.

Who does not eat with the eyes???

An ugly apple is not purchased even if much more tasty.

Roland


On Thu, Mar 3, 2016, 01:11 J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> On March 2, 2016 4:43:21 PM Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Given this, I wonder if it makes more communicative sense to consider
> > moving the basic controls above the Widgets, closer to the always-used
> > Browse and Pointer icons.
>
>
> That was one of the things on my imaginary list. I'd like to see widgets at
> the bottom of the tool palette where they are out of the way, and where
> there is room for expansion as more become available. The primary hit
> regions will always be the browse and edit tools, and they need to be
> slightly larger than all the others and at the top where the user's eye
> will focus first.
>
> Widgets are also a little too large compared to the other icons, and too
> dark, which makes them visually distracting. They also don't match the rest
> of the interface. Most professional teams create a particular color palette
> early on that will represent their brand and all interface elements must
> adhere to it. Apple uses blue, Google centers around certain saturations of
> primary colors, etc.  LC should choose a color scheme and use it throughout
> to visually integrate all components.
>
> I'd avoid greys except as backgrounds. Very dark gray is okay for text but
> not so good for primary icons, it's too overbearing. Very light grey is
> difficult to see, and also implies less importance (temporary text in
> fields is often light grey, for example, to indicate the text will
> disappear when the user starts typing.)
>
> I do favor functionality over appearance, but the sad fact is that new
> users will base their first impressions of the product on how it looks.
> These are some of the small details that matter for a professional
> presentation.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar  2 21:29:01 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 20:29:01 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D78F3B.7080303@ahsoftware.net>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D78F3B.7080303@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D7A16D.7070603@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/2/2016 7:11 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/02/2016 04:09 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> I do favor functionality over appearance, but the sad fact is that new
>> users will base their first impressions of the product on how it looks.
>> These are some of the small details that matter for a professional
>> presentation.
>
> Coming soon...
>
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26133#p135929
>
> Holding off an official release because LC8 is still in flux.
>

Nice, I'd forgotten about that since I first saw it. The forum topic has 
feedback similar to ours here too.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From hh at livecode.org  Wed Mar  2 21:38:52 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 18:38:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016
Message-ID: <1456972732339-4701908.post@n4.nabble.com>

What's going on here?
Don't waste valuable time of the dev team.

**************** Note ****************
Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016.
21 weeks and 5 days remaining just now.
*************************************

I'm waiting for 8.0.1.
I see a very long list of not-so-simple bugs.
I'm waiting for an actual guide for externals
(so that we can do by ourselves if nothing
else is upcoming).

Hermann
=======
Not sent from anybody's iPhone



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Edinburgh-Aug-2-4-2016-tp4701908.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar  2 22:27:35 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:27:35 +1100
Subject: Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016
In-Reply-To: <1456972732339-4701908.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1456972732339-4701908.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <97CFD975-930F-407A-8A14-470590881CE6@appisle.net>


> On 3 Mar 2016, at 1:38 PM, -hh <hh at livecode.org> wrote:
> 
> What's going on here?
> Don't waste valuable time of the dev team.
> 
> **************** Note ****************
> Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016.
> 21 weeks and 5 days remaining just now.
> *************************************
> 
> I'm waiting for 8.0.1.
> I see a very long list of not-so-simple bugs.
> I'm waiting for an actual guide for externals
> (so that we can do by ourselves if nothing
> else is upcoming).

Do you want the conference sooner? 21 weeks is a while to wait ;-)

I have only experienced one LC conference so far and I found it invaluable as a customer. With any luck I might get to experience it from the other side as I expect it will be just as invaluable from that side too. Getting face to face time between engineers and the people they are engineering for is seldom a waste of time.

What do you mean by nothing else coming?

Have you seen my external templates? https://github.com/montegoulding/livecode-external-templates <https://github.com/montegoulding/livecode-external-templates>
They are for Xcode only at the moment but the plan is to do Visual C++ and Linuxy type things at some point? Maybe even some starter gyp files if we want to get fancy. Contributions are welcome! While LCB is the future there?s probably going to be a while yet where externals are quicker and easier to deliver features with.

Cheers

Monte

From hh at livecode.org  Wed Mar  2 23:22:14 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 05:22:14 +0100
Subject: Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016
Message-ID: <419E0FA6-BBDF-4D25-87A6-20ACCDD9A57F@livecode.org>

I use to look at the top of the current bugs list when I
report one. I have several more to report but stopped for
a while:
The list is simply too long. They will even have problems
to solve the bugs for the current 8.0-dp and to solve the
main problems of LC 6/7 to get (essentially) rid of that
versions. [So any further bug report that goes from LC8
back to LC6 will slow down the 'avantgarde development'.]

Externals.
I meant this last point with a ";-)". That was a hidden
proposal to you, who is now the new externals specialist
of LC.

People say, the last external-SDK was brilliant while it
was actual (was before I started with LC). I hoped you
would actualize that as long it makes sense to generate
and use externals.

Take a simple example I have read in some posts and what's
also in the 'old' externals-SDK: Imagedata.

It's not the manipulation that's really asked, mainly the
steps for us LC-'dummies', from getting the imagedata of
img 1, deliver it to the external, then say change ARGB
to AGBR, give it back to LC and set the imagedata of img 1.
You could use the old description, the helpers and your
adjusted templates for that.

AND: As soon as this is comparably fast in LC Builder, you
could document the same task, done there? Would be great!

Regards, Hermann

p.s. No misunderstanding here: I appreciate your externals
too, have a license ;-)

> > Hermann H. wrote:
> > What's going on here? 
> > Don't waste valuable time of the dev team. 
> > 
> > **************** Note **************** 
> > Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016. 
> > 21 weeks and 5 days remaining just now. 
> > ************************************* 
> > 
> > I'm waiting for 8.0.1. 
> > I see a very long list of not-so-simple bugs. 
> > I'm waiting for an actual guide for externals 
> > (so that we can do by ourselves if nothing 
> > else is upcoming).
> Monte G. wrote:
> Do you want the conference sooner? 21 weeks is a while to 
> wait ;-)
> I have only experienced one LC conference so far and I 
> found it invaluable as a customer. With any luck I might 
> get to experience it from the other side as I expect it 
> will be just as invaluable from that side too. Getting 
> face to face time between engineers and the people they 
> are engineering for is seldom a waste of time. What do you 
> mean by nothing else coming? Have you seen my external 
> templates? https://github.com/montegoulding/livecode-
> external-templates <https://github.com/montegoulding/
> livecode-external-templates> They are for Xcode only at 
> the moment but the plan is to do Visual C++ and Linuxy 
> type things at some point? Maybe even some starter gyp 
> files if we want to get fancy. Contributions are welcome! 
> While LCB is the future there?s probably going to be a 
> while yet where externals are quicker and easier to 
> deliver features with. Cheers Monte 



From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar  2 23:27:26 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 04:27:26 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D7A16D.7070603@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D78F3B.7080303@ahsoftware.net> <56D7A16D.7070603@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56d7bd2d.5fd61770.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>


On March 2, 2016 at 4:29:17 PM, J. Landman Gay (jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>) wrote:

> The idea was to be able to select things in the PB that may not be in
> view, even on totally different cards or stacks, and be able to work
> with them without going there. Hilited lines indicate which objects will
> be affected. This could be useful. On the other hand, there is now a
> disconnect between visible selections on a card and objects you can act
> on within the PB.

I'm already fond of this feature. I may have the property inspector open for one object but i want to edit the script of a different one. Being able to click the other object script lines number without losing the current selected object is, IMHO very useful

> Selections also act slightly differently in the Property Inspector. It
> used to be you could shift-click several objects and then double-click
> any one of them to open the multi-object inspector. That doesn't work
> now. Instead you double-click one object on the card to open its
> inspector and then shift-click objects to add more. That causes the
> alignment icon to appear at the top left of the inspector, and the other
> icons will operate on all the selected objects.

Agreed.. this is an issue. I'm always needing to align controls.


  There are multiple issue with the prop inspector.  Not sure how best to tackle them.

e.g.

0) Script editor needs its own top level icon in the Prop inspector! Already requested, but in DP15 it did not happen. If you need space then move the geometry manager icon off to the advanced pull down. Editing scripts comes waaaaay ahead of geo manager in dev priority.

1)  the card title of prop inspector goes dim if you click on the stack. The greyscale level is so low i can barely read it.

2) we cannot resize the content area for fields of custom props! ouch!

3) after setting a color in the colors, there is no "Clear" option. you actually have to right click and choose "reset to default"  which is OK I guess once you try that, but newbies will be frustrated

4) no tool tips for the icons at the top. Those who have poor visual memory (many coders do) will have this subtle "what does the icon do" reaction. Please add the tool tips.

5) Graphic effects icon doesn't make any sense... looks like another pencil or something. Better to have a small circle with a gradient or something.

6) Entering custom props is messed up (already reported and confirm)...

7) Button icons icon doesn't make visual sense... find an icon that looks like an icon.

This is just the beginning. Far, Far from any kind or release candidate IMHO.


From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar  3 00:06:06 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 16:06:06 +1100
Subject: Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016
In-Reply-To: <419E0FA6-BBDF-4D25-87A6-20ACCDD9A57F@livecode.org>
References: <419E0FA6-BBDF-4D25-87A6-20ACCDD9A57F@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <00AF9CAB-DCDF-4CE7-831F-E32C4B4EA21A@appisle.net>


> On 3 Mar 2016, at 3:22 PM, [-hh] <hh at livecode.org> wrote:
> 
> I use to look at the top of the current bugs list when I
> report one. I have several more to report but stopped for
> a while:
> The list is simply too long. They will even have problems
> to solve the bugs for the current 8.0-dp and to solve the
> main problems of LC 6/7 to get (essentially) rid of that
> versions. [So any further bug report that goes from LC8
> back to LC6 will slow down the 'avantgarde development?.]

LiveCode is a very large and complex system. Bugs are always going to exist in it. The ones that definitely won?t get fixed are those that are never reported though! Considering you?ve just had one of your bugs fixed (17013) within 6 days of reporting (including the weekend) I?m really not sure why you are overly concerned about posting bug reports.

Cheers

Monte

From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar  3 00:29:57 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 16:29:57 +1100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d7bd2d.5fd61770.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D78F3B.7080303@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D7A16D.7070603@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d7bd2d.5fd61770.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <86856AAC-8BB0-47F5-9F09-9D47B38A543F@appisle.net>


> On 3 Mar 2016, at 3:27 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> 0) Script editor needs its own top level icon in the Prop inspector! Already requested, but in DP15 it did not happen. If you need space then move the geometry manager icon off to the advanced pull down. Editing scripts comes waaaaay ahead of geo manager in dev priority.

What?s wrong with the bug Code button on the toolbar? I would say it could go where the prefs cog and just edit the prefs for the inspector in the preferences UI, however, I would note that we haven?t had a script button on the inspector for some years.
> 
> 1)  the card title of prop inspector goes dim if you click on the stack. The greyscale level is so low i can barely read it.

This is just what happens to palette windows. I?m not sure how you are expecting them to fix that.
> 
> 2) we cannot resize the content area for fields of custom props! ouch!

Yes it would seem reasonable to allow us to resize the custom control pane down enlarging the value field and put scrollbars on it. Perhaps the option to turn on and off wrapping would be helpful too.
> 
> 3) after setting a color in the colors, there is no "Clear" option. you actually have to right click and choose "reset to default"  which is OK I guess once you try that, but newbies will be frustrated

Yes I suspect an inherited checkbox might be good there.
> 
> 4) no tool tips for the icons at the top. Those who have poor visual memory (many coders do) will have this subtle "what does the icon do" reaction. Please add the tool tips.

I agree that would be helpful
> 
> 5) Graphic effects icon doesn't make any sense... looks like another pencil or something. Better to have a small circle with a gradient or something.

I?m not sure about the icon but there?s some other issues here too. The color dialog opens behind the gradient dialog. It?s not intuitive that you need to choose from the types in order to add a gradient (perhaps a cancel button to reset to previous and apply a gradient from the start). Choosing reset to default presents the dialog in addition to clearing.
> 
> 6) Entering custom props is messed up (already reported and confirm)?

Yes I reported an issue with the property not being set unless you click around and it definitely fails if you add another property in your clicking around.
> 
> 7) Button icons icon doesn't make visual sense... find an icon that looks like an icon.


Works for me actually



From hh at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 00:39:38 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 06:39:38 +0100
Subject: Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016
Message-ID: <D20B750E-3424-4E5F-8C2C-47C58DC5770E@livecode.org>

> > Hermann H. wrote
> > I use to look at the top of the current bugs list when I 
> > report one. I have several more to report but stopped for 
> > a while: 
> > The list is simply too long. They will even have problems 
> > to solve the bugs for the current 8.0-dp and to solve the 
> > main problems of LC 6/7 to get (essentially) rid of that 
> > versions. [So any further bug report that goes from LC8 
> > back to LC6 will slow down the 'avantgarde development?.]
> Monte G. wrote.  
> LiveCode is a very large and complex system. Bugs are always
> going to exist in it. The ones that definitely won?t get fixed
> are those that are never reported though! Considering you?ve
> just had one of your bugs fixed (17013) within 6 days of
> reporting (including the weekend) I?m really not sure why you
> are overly concerned about posting bug reports.
> Cheers Monte 

I didn't and I can't complain about resolving bugs reported by
me as they are currently mainly to HTML5.
[And 17013 is one that takes place when going to the limits of
LC 7/8. This wasn't really important. They probably used it to
detect actual memory (leak-)problems.]
But one can see from handling bugs, how much 'nasty' work they
are doing (you will know already now better in detail than I
do) and have on their to-do-list.

It is not important for me to solve some HTML5 problems others
find important. I know HTML5 and can do that "directly" what I
need. It's the fun with LC, to push it in that direction.
It's a good path: For example even leading Mozilla-dev people
(Firefox) already know and acknowledge, that LC is the first
scripting-IDE that compiles (using emscripten for rendering)
directly into HTML5.

******* And your answer to the proposal of an actual *******
******* externals-SDK is really the empty set?  :-(  *******

But I shouldn't waste the time of a LC dev-team member ...

Hermann




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar  3 01:27:02 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 00:27:02 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d7bd2d.5fd61770.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D78F3B.7080303@ahsoftware.net> <56D7A16D.7070603@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d7bd2d.5fd61770.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56D7D936.4070001@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/2/2016 10:27 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> 4) no tool tips for the icons at the top. Those who have poor visual
> memory (many coders do) will have this subtle "what does the icon do"
> reaction. Please add the tool tips.

I need those too. The tooltips are actually there, they just don't 
display. The same omission also happens when pointing to any widget in 
the tool palette.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar  3 01:41:38 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:41:38 +1100
Subject: Edinburgh Aug 2-4, 2016
In-Reply-To: <D20B750E-3424-4E5F-8C2C-47C58DC5770E@livecode.org>
References: <D20B750E-3424-4E5F-8C2C-47C58DC5770E@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <540520A7-D3D6-40D7-9B80-7FF14E12B1F5@appisle.net>


> On 3 Mar 2016, at 4:39 PM, [-hh] <hh at livecode.org> wrote:
> 
> ******* And your answer to the proposal of an actual *******
> ******* externals-SDK is really the empty set?  :-(  *******

Well I'm not in a position to promise what I will be able to work on just yet which is why I didn't comment. When you have a boss you do what he says or you don't have a boss for very long ;-)
> 
> But I shouldn't waste the time of a LC dev-team member ...

I'm not working for them just yet (soon) so it's ok to waste my time :-)


From ebeugelaar at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 01:43:30 2016
From: ebeugelaar at gmail.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 07:43:30 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV9S0WpZqEn=XkwhXXqRKML-eFB+cXHfQ4_e6suGY4giVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CAH-=WV9S0WpZqEn=XkwhXXqRKML-eFB+cXHfQ4_e6suGY4giVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a2b7ef34-2814-4421-b102-a4394632e3b7@typeapp.com>

I totally agree with the comments from Jacqueline. 

Sent from Matwetwe < http://www.about.me/beugelaar >



On 03:26, Mar 3, 2016, at 03:26, Roland Huettmann <roland.huettmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>I really like this comment from Jacqueline.
>
>Who does not eat with the eyes???
>
>An ugly apple is not purchased even if much more tasty.
>
>Roland
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 3, 2016, 01:11 J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>wrote:
>
>> On March 2, 2016 4:43:21 PM Richard Gaskin
><ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Given this, I wonder if it makes more communicative sense to
>consider
>> > moving the basic controls above the Widgets, closer to the
>always-used
>> > Browse and Pointer icons.
>>
>>
>> That was one of the things on my imaginary list. I'd like to see
>widgets at
>> the bottom of the tool palette where they are out of the way, and
>where
>> there is room for expansion as more become available. The primary hit
>> regions will always be the browse and edit tools, and they need to be
>> slightly larger than all the others and at the top where the user's
>eye
>> will focus first.
>>
>> Widgets are also a little too large compared to the other icons, and
>too
>> dark, which makes them visually distracting. They also don't match
>the rest
>> of the interface. Most professional teams create a particular color
>palette
>> early on that will represent their brand and all interface elements
>must
>> adhere to it. Apple uses blue, Google centers around certain
>saturations of
>> primary colors, etc.  LC should choose a color scheme and use it
>throughout
>> to visually integrate all components.
>>
>> I'd avoid greys except as backgrounds. Very dark gray is okay for
>text but
>> not so good for primary icons, it's too overbearing. Very light grey
>is
>> difficult to see, and also implies less importance (temporary text in
>> fields is often light grey, for example, to indicate the text will
>> disappear when the user starts typing.)
>>
>> I do favor functionality over appearance, but the sad fact is that
>new
>> users will base their first impressions of the product on how it
>looks.
>> These are some of the small details that matter for a professional
>> presentation.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar  3 02:10:14 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 01:10:14 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <86856AAC-8BB0-47F5-9F09-9D47B38A543F@appisle.net>
References: <CAAT6EXOELDSaoOt88QT3VFg36GYmZvkyFHeAsJasrX0JcywPng@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D76C45.40806@fourthworld.com>
	<15339cef9b8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D78F3B.7080303@ahsoftware.net> <56D7A16D.7070603@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d7bd2d.5fd61770.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<86856AAC-8BB0-47F5-9F09-9D47B38A543F@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56D7E356.7020607@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/2/2016 11:29 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> >2) we cannot resize the content area for fields of custom props! ouch!
> Yes it would seem reasonable to allow us to resize the custom control pane down enlarging the value field and put scrollbars on it. Perhaps the option to turn on and off wrapping would be helpful too.

Ditto for the content area for fields, which shows only one line. It 
needs to be far taller by default, and resizeable. I think we all edit 
text in there, it's the easiest way to change the content of a locked 
field without tinkering with its other properties. I need to see at 
least a few paragraphs most of the time.

The widths of buttons like those in the graphic effects pane are 
overbearing. They should probably be about half their current width. I 
suspect they were made that wide to accomodate the width of the stack 
header, but they do look sort of clunky. I'm not sure how to solve that, 
but the layout doesn't look right.

The ink effects popdown in the Color pane is also too wide, about three 
times wider than the text it contains, which leaves a large, unused 
empty area above it in the window. Ideally the description of the 
pattern boxes would appear to the right of each box instead of under the 
color description (I know that won't be easy, given the new method for 
building the inspector) but that would fill up some of the empty space.

But even better, I really want the ink popdown to be a list field like 
it was before, which could fit nicely in all that unused space at the 
right of the color/pattern boxes. I think most of us cycle through all 
the ink options looking for the right one, and using arrow keys to 
travel up and down the list is extremely convenient -- one keystroke and 
the target object changes its ink instantly. You can view them all very 
quickly. A popdown button requires you to complete dozens of manual 
selections, and that's not only slow, it's hard on my tendonitis.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 04:09:27 2016
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 11:09:27 +0200
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com> <56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

I think the cantSelect property was always settable from within the Project
Browser. The reasons are discussed in

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16416

Hope this helps,
Panos
--

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> On 03/02/2016 02:21 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
>
>> The "mysterious lock icon with a 'Show' tootip" is setting the cantSelect
>> property of the control. The tooltip should reflect that though, so we
>> have
>> to update it.
>>
>
> Ah. Thanks.
>
> I'm curious, though, about the decision process that moved the cantSelect
> property up the pantheon of properties out of the Property Inspector and
> into the Project Browser. Is there something particular about cantSelect
> that makes it more important than other properties?
>
> Just curious because there are lots of properties I fiddle with regularly,
> and I don't think I have ever set the cantSelect on an object.
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From mark at sorcery-ltd.co.uk  Thu Mar  3 06:55:18 2016
From: mark at sorcery-ltd.co.uk (Mark Wilcox)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 11:55:18 +0000
Subject: Summary: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <9f56363c059080d35ab649dfb93ab969@livecode.com>
References: <9f56363c059080d35ab649dfb93ab969@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1457006118.1783734.538300370.5503DBD3@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I've hesitated to wade in on this but I think LiveCode's "official"
interpretation of the GPL is wrong and also a mistake. I thought that
there was a policy of encouraging those that produce libraries for other
developers to also dual-license them - I didn't realise that was only
supposed to be allowed for those with a commercial license.

I am not a lawyer. However, I did work for an open source foundation
(The Symbian Foundation - sadly a very short-lived one) and spent lots
of time studying the relevant technical and legal issues and talking to
our in house copyright and software licensing expert lawyer. I was the
person that wrote the licensing FAQs.

Also relevant to what I'm about to say:
1) I've consulted for Intel, Microsoft, Amazon, Google and (also now
almost dead but not because of my advice) BlackBerry on developer
ecosystem issues.
2) I'm a lifetime license holder from the original open source
Kickstarter campaign - I want LiveCode to succeed.
3) I don't actively use LiveCode... just try new bits occasionally. I'm
still waiting (since that original Kickstarter) for what has become v8
and hoping it's good!


First the legal... I really don't believe the GPL can apply to script
only stacks and probably not stackfiles either, just because they were
created with the community version. The case for standalones is much
stronger and I think LiveCode is pretty safe there.

A few points:
> The most critical thing to remember is that it is the *intent* of the 
> GPL that actually matters and not the current text of any particular 
> version. The simple reason for that is if the GPL is ever tested in 
> court and the outcome is not favourable or contradicts any 
> interpretation the FSF have made of it then the FSF will produce a new 
> version which closes any loopholes which have been exposed in the court 
> case.

Legally it is the text that matters and it's not at all certain that all
loopholes can be closed. The FSF are doing something quite ingenious but
they're attempting to extend copyright law in a way it was never
intended to go. Any license they can come up with is fundamentally
constrained by what constitutes a derivative work and what is or is not
fair use.

> The intent of the GPL is clear - it is fundamentally about building an 
> ecosystem of software where everyone has the right to contribute to it. 
> Nothing more, nothing less. It is not an economic force (and thus has 
> nothing to do with money) it is a creative force. It is about ensuring 
> that if I receive a piece of software then I also have the right to 
> modify and adapt that software and distribute any such modifications.

Creating and distributing scripts or stackfiles with LiveCode does not
in any way interfere with the rights or ability of others to modify,
adapt and distribute LiveCode itself. The key distinctions from the
Joomla and WordPress plugin scenarios (where there are already plenty of
IP lawyers who'd disagree strongly with the FSF) are:
1) The GPL is designed to protect programs, not programming languages.
It specifically contains language that excludes "Standard Interfaces"
which are in common use amongst a programming language community. Given
it's a language that predates the company and has existed under more
permissive licenses in the past it'd be hard to claim it as exclusively
LiveCode's IP anyway.
2) The PHP code (which is the only part covered by GPL according to the
FSF, not CSS or images) in WordPress or Joomla plugins can only by
executed in the context of WordPress or Joomla respectively and those
are only available under the GPL. In the case of LiveCode scripts/stacks
they can be executed in the context of a non-GPL program - the
commercial LiveCode engine.

> Absolutely every piece of software is derived from a set of files which 
> can be considered the 'source code' - whether that be actual 
> source-code, artwork, music, prose, or whatever - which is then 
> processed using some set of tools to produce something that you can 
> actually run and use - this is always 100% crystal clear.

If it's absolutely 100% crystal clear what the 'source code' is when it
comes to the GPL and it includes things like artwork, then why would the
FSF even exclude the images and CSS from inclusion in WordPress and
Joomla plugins licensing under GPL? It's because the plugin case is a
real stretch for the GPL - we're talking original creative work that
would be usable in another non-GPL covered environment (see point 2 in
the previous section).

> The point here is very subtle but I do believe it is happily 
> covered by the standard notions of 'derivative work' and there is a 
> simple acid test: could you have written the content of your 
> script-only-stack text file without using the ideas, notions and 
> existence of LiveCode?

This is not at all the standard notion of 'derivative work' in copyright
law. The law in many large countries (including the US, which I believe
is LiveCode's biggest market) explicitly does not cover "ideas and
notions", it only covers "fixed representations in a tangible medium" -
i.e. bits of text and images.

Second, the ecosystem aspects...

So, if I'm a supporter of LiveCode and I've already paid for a lifetime
license, why risk pulling apart potential revenue streams for the
company by attacking their GPL stance? Basically because I think it's a
mistake to put any kind of restriction (even freedom preserving
restrictions) on developers sharing code amongst one another. If
LiveCode want to make money from developers selling libraries or
extensions to one another then the way to do that is make sure their
marketplace is the best place to discover such libraries and take a cut.

I think it's a mistake to restrict developers sharing code in whatever
way they see fit because of this:
> we are close to releasing LiveCode 8 which we hope will be as transformative 
> for the LiveCode ecosystem as the explosion in VBX/OCX controls were to 
> the Visual Basic world.

The transition from hobbyist to professional often starts by making
something useful for yourself and deciding other people might want to
benefit from it too. If you share the ethos of the FSF then you might
release that under the GPL - but then it's useless for the commercial
developer population that actually pay for LiveCode. So what would be
better for the community is either sharing that under a very permissive
license (which is very public spirited but not everyone will see why
they should), or keeping it proprietary and selling it for a small
amount of money. Given the size of the LiveCode commercial ecosystem and
developer ecosystem in general, there is clearly not a huge business to
be made selling libraries and extensions to other developers (Monte
would no doubt attest to this). Most hobbyists creating libraries
probably couldn't easily justify the license cost given they have to
maintain their library and spend time on support once they start selling
it commercially. I believe it'd be better for the whole LiveCode
ecosystem (and probably a bit less hypocritical) if LiveCode officially
allowed community edition users to keep their own work proprietary when
not distributed in combination with the engine but also encouraged them
to follow their own model and dual license under GPL and commercial
terms so that everyone in the community can benefit.

That's my informed but certainly not definitive take. Certainly rather a
lot more than 2 cents worth, so thanks for reading if you got to the
end.

Mark



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 08:36:48 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 15:36:48 +0200
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>



On 2.03.2016 23:57, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 02/03/2016 21:45, Roger Eller wrote:
>>
>> I very much dislike those super dark icons in the new IDE. Especially 
>> when
>> the icons in the Tools menu are a completely different shade of 
>> gray.  They
>> should be consistent across the IDE.  I also dislike jerks.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Which specific "icons in the Tools menu" are you referring to?  I 
> don't seem to have any icons in the "Tools" menu on my system.  Do you 
> mean the widget icons in the upper half of the Tools palette, or the 
> miniature pictures of controls in the in the lower half of the tools 
> palette, or should I be looking somewhere else entirely?
>
> It might be quite straightforward to tweak the colour used to draw the 
> widget icons, so it might be a quick fix.
>
>                                         Peter
>
The widget icons are dark grey on pale grey, and that gives insufficient 
contrast.

R.



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Mar  3 09:22:10 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:22:10 -0500
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>

I also agree that tools/widgets should be cleaned up.  The number of button
and field tools, in an age of widgets, especially, is too many.
Slightly off-the-subject, but for usability, command-9 and command-0 are a
PITA to reach for me, as a right-hander, when my right is usually on the
trackpad or mouse.  Remember the HC days where it was cmd-tab, cmd-tab-tab,
etc.?  How about cmd-`, cmd-`-`?  For rightities, it's much eaiser to reach
when your right hand is on the mouse/trackpad.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 8:36 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 2.03.2016 23:57, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
>> On 02/03/2016 21:45, Roger Eller wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I very much dislike those super dark icons in the new IDE. Especially
>>> when
>>> the icons in the Tools menu are a completely different shade of gray.
>>> They
>>> should be consistent across the IDE.  I also dislike jerks.
>>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Which specific "icons in the Tools menu" are you referring to?  I don't
>> seem to have any icons in the "Tools" menu on my system.  Do you mean the
>> widget icons in the upper half of the Tools palette, or the miniature
>> pictures of controls in the in the lower half of the tools palette, or
>> should I be looking somewhere else entirely?
>>
>> It might be quite straightforward to tweak the colour used to draw the
>> widget icons, so it might be a quick fix.
>>
>>                                         Peter
>>
>> The widget icons are dark grey on pale grey, and that gives insufficient
> contrast.
>
> R.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From paul at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 09:41:45 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 06:41:45 -0800
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d76f31.7ab4cc0.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<7AADDD8D-6FF0-486D-BF18-1B166E385BB1@mac.com>
	<D2FB446E.7B699%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56d76f31.7ab4cc0.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <9E9F8697-A791-464E-8E63-9EAF70E2F71B@livecode.org>

You are more than welcome, like most people on this list I?m just pleased to help. :)

I?m sure you?ll realize, but the key to this effect is using the Ink setting ?blendHardLight' with neutral colours, then any tone above 50% will darken the colours below and any tone less than 50% will lighten the colours below.

Regards,

Paul

> On Mar 2, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> Aloha Paul:
> 
> wow... awesome.. you did it! this works perfectly as needed.
> 
> So I can just set up a template button and store this and create all new buttons according.
> 
> Outstanding.. Big Mahalo from Hawaii
> 
> BR
> 
> On March 1, 2016 at 11:26:57 AM, Scott Rossi (scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:
> 
> By adjusting some colour values and the ink mode I could achieve what I think you are looking for, however I may have misunderstood, because I don?t quite understand the bit about having 50% opacity of a clear background!
> 
> Link to demo stack with my interpretation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhjqlx0zhdeyq2f/Button%20Demo.livecode?dl=0
> 
> HTH
> 
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 10:02:06 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 07:02:06 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7DEA5B63-9EE8-41FC-AC28-FAF6AB188B36@livecode.org>

On the subject of improving the Project Browser, I would like to see a ?Refresh? button added to this palette, probably in the header bar by the gear icon. Sometimes the PB doesn?t always update in the way you would expect and the only way to refresh it right now is to close and re-open the palette, I seem to have to do this all too often.

For the widgets in the Tool Palette, personally I would prefer to see them in a separate ?Widgets? palette, but if they are to live in the Tools Palette, then I agree that they should be moved lower down below the main controls.

Having read some of the posts, especially from RG, I?m now trying to work in LC without the Tools Palette or the ToolBar being visible, all of the commands and controls are available under the menus so both of these palettes are not really necessary, but, I find the lack of some shortcuts can slow things down a little, so I would really like to be able to have some customizable shortcuts. I do keep adding some by editing the revMenuBar script, so maybe I?ll try to figure out the GIT stuff and make a pull request someday.

Paul


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 10:06:49 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:06:49 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <7DEA5B63-9EE8-41FC-AC28-FAF6AB188B36@livecode.org>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7DEA5B63-9EE8-41FC-AC28-FAF6AB188B36@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <780a816fe3e87f8a5b4457810d47a771@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-03 16:02, Paul Hibbert wrote:
> On the subject of improving the Project Browser, I would like to see a
> ?Refresh? button added to this palette, probably in the header bar by
> the gear icon. Sometimes the PB doesn?t always update in the way you
> would expect and the only way to refresh it right now is to close and
> re-open the palette, I seem to have to do this all too often.

We'd rather not add a 'refresh' button to the project browser - if there 
are instances where it does not update correctly then we need to fix 
those instances. So, if you can find a reproducible set of steps for 
when it occurs please do file a bug report so we can address the 
problem.

We do know that there will be refresh problems currently for certain 
(control and stack manipulation) scripts when lockMessages is true (i.e. 
when in a lock messages ... unlock messages block). Would that explain 
what you are seeing?

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 10:22:03 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 07:22:03 -0800
Subject: v8 selection appearance
Message-ID: <56D8569B.8010406@fourthworld.com>

I can appreciate the benefit of the dashed outline added to an object to 
further reinforces its selected state in addition to the presence of the 
selection handles, but I find it sometimes distracting as it prevents me 
from seeing the actual border pattern of the object.

Is there a global property that governs that?  I tried looking it up but 
unfortunately the Dictionary doesn't let me type in the search field on 
Linux (I believe that's reported and in progress).

If not, it might be a nice compliment to the selectionHandleColor 
property to have something like the selectionBorder, a Boolean to turn 
that off if we prefer.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 10:25:22 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 15:25:22 +0000
Subject: v8 selection appearance
In-Reply-To: <56D8569B.8010406@fourthworld.com>
References: <56D8569B.8010406@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56D85762.8010600@livecode.com>

On 03/03/2016 15:22, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> I can appreciate the benefit of the dashed outline added to an object to
> further reinforces its selected state in addition to the presence of the
> selection handles, but I find it sometimes distracting as it prevents me
> from seeing the actual border pattern of the object.
>
> Is there a global property that governs that?  I tried looking it up but
> unfortunately the Dictionary doesn't let me type in the search field on
> Linux (I believe that's reported and in progress).
>
> If not, it might be a nice compliment to the selectionHandleColor
> property to have something like the selectionBorder, a Boolean to turn
> that off if we prefer.

Hi Richard,

That's a good point about affecting the ability to preview the border 
settings while adjusting them in the property inspector.  There isn't 
currently a preference for the dashed outline.  Please go ahead and file 
an enhancement request.

                                Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Thu Mar  3 10:28:58 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 15:28:58 +0000
Subject: revBrowserPrint
Message-ID: <B98545BE-85E0-456D-83F5-41D21983CC6E@icloud.com>



How would you change the print orientation when using revBrowserPrint from portrait to landscape?




Thanks


Terry


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 10:34:15 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 07:34:15 -0800
Subject: v8 selection appearance
In-Reply-To: <56D85762.8010600@livecode.com>
References: <56D85762.8010600@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D85977.1000203@fourthworld.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote:

 > On 03/03/2016 15:22, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >> I can appreciate the benefit of the dashed outline added to an
 >> object to further reinforces its selected state in addition to
 >> the presence of the selection handles, but I find it sometimes
 >> distracting as it prevents me from seeing the actual border
 >> pattern of the object.
 >>
 >> Is there a global property that governs that?
 >>
 >> If not, it might be a nice compliment to the selectionHandleColor
 >> property to have something like the selectionBorder, a Boolean to
 >> turn that off if we prefer.
 >
 >
 > That's a good point about affecting the ability to preview the border
 > settings while adjusting them in the property inspector.  There isn't
 > currently a preference for the dashed outline.  Please go ahead and
 > file an enhancement request.

Thanks, Peter - done:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17057

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar  3 10:35:11 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 07:35:11 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net> <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/03/2016 01:09 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> I think the cantSelect property was always settable from within the Project
> Browser. The reasons are discussed in
>
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16416
>
> Hope this helps,

Thanks - that does help. I have to say, though, that Richard's argument 
in the QCC report makes more sense to me than the final decision. Why 
not just put a checkbox in the property inspector? If you're not 
changing the cantSelect by script then you have to bring up the PB to 
get to the object anyway, so the property inspector is one click away, 
and then cantSelect is like any other property.

I'm also curious now about the use case for cantSelect. I realize it's 
not going away since it's always been there, but I'm having trouble 
coming up with a scenario in which this is useful. My worry is that 
we're putting a pretty obscure setting front and center in a primary 
tool for stack design when screen real estate is already at a premium 
(e.g. we're already overloading functions into the PB.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mark at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 10:51:26 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:51:26 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net> <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <438a838b819818f91ac62cce3c807e1e@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-03 16:35, Mark Wieder wrote:
> I'm also curious now about the use case for cantSelect. I realize it's
> not going away since it's always been there, but I'm having trouble
> coming up with a scenario in which this is useful. My worry is that
> we're putting a pretty obscure setting front and center in a primary
> tool for stack design when screen real estate is already at a premium
> (e.g. we're already overloading functions into the PB.

The use-case for 'cantSelect' is to allow you have objects on a stack 
which act as if they are in browse/run tool mode when the global tool is 
not the browse/run tool. For example you can create a single stack which 
has buttons allowing to (say) choose different types of graphic object, 
but still allow you to create the graphic objects on that stack with the 
standard graphic object tools. (i.e. You get a simple vector graphic 
object editor).

In the IDE the 'cantSelect' property can seem strange because the IDE 
shares the same notion of current tool that user stacks do. Ideally the 
IDE 'tool' would be distinct from the user stack 'tools'; in much the 
same was as ideally it wouldn't have to rely on the same set of object 
manipulation messages as user stacks do (hence the current problem with 
palettes not updating when lock messages is in effect).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 11:09:51 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 17:09:51 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net> <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <9b0ecadf727e013606b571db8582eea8@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-03 01:55, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/02/2016 02:21 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
>> The "mysterious lock icon with a 'Show' tootip" is setting the 
>> cantSelect
>> property of the control. The tooltip should reflect that though, so we 
>> have
>> to update it.
> 
> I'm curious, though, about the decision process that moved the
> cantSelect property up the pantheon of properties out of the Property
> Inspector and into the Project Browser. Is there something particular
> about cantSelect that makes it more important than other properties?

I do recall us having a discussion amongst the team at the time that 
report came in.

Evaluating from a 'screen real estate' point of view then yes, it 
probably is a bit of a waste of space in the PB relative to the 
frequency of the properties use. Now I'm pretty sure that the reason 
'cantSelect' was never in the property inspector before was that once 
you had turned it on, you couldn't select the object again easily and 
thus wouldn't be able to turn it off except via the message box (so 
beginners, in particular, could get themselves into a state where they 
had accidentally set the cantSelect property and then not work out why 
they couldn't select it any more, or set the property back).

Now, having just checked this in the latest LC8 IDE - it seems that 
cantSelect makes no difference to the IDE when you manipulate objects in 
the project browser or property inspector (just when trying to use the 
mouse on the stack itself) so it might well do better in the property 
inspector... Perhaps under an 'advanced' tab where users won't 
accidentally set it and then be puzzled why Edit mode no longer works 
like Edit mode for that object!

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From steven.crighton at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 11:12:22 2016
From: steven.crighton at livecode.com (Steven Crighton)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 16:12:22 -0000
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
Message-ID: <002201d17567$7816b390$68441ab0$@livecode.com>

Dear List

 

In LiveCode 8 there is a new option in the (new) 'New Stack' submenu: Script
only Stack.

 

Mark has just published a blog post on this very subject

 

 <https://livecode.com/script-only-stacks/>
https://livecode.com/script-only-stacks/

 

Looking forward to hearing your comments. Enjoy.

 

Steven



 

 

 

 



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Mar  3 11:16:11 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 11:16:11 -0500
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <438a838b819818f91ac62cce3c807e1e@livecode.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net> <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
	<438a838b819818f91ac62cce3c807e1e@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNpyNm631sdYvpj2quo7zr3qhpiJ=-J+RT4AHb5YMZxuw@mail.gmail.com>

Paul,
You can also click in the search field and then click outside of it to
force a refresh.

Mark,
I have a bug report in for an issue with the PB not populating when a stack
loads.  I don't think it has been dealt with, yet.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:

> On 2016-03-03 16:35, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
>> I'm also curious now about the use case for cantSelect. I realize it's
>> not going away since it's always been there, but I'm having trouble
>> coming up with a scenario in which this is useful. My worry is that
>> we're putting a pretty obscure setting front and center in a primary
>> tool for stack design when screen real estate is already at a premium
>> (e.g. we're already overloading functions into the PB.
>>
>
> The use-case for 'cantSelect' is to allow you have objects on a stack
> which act as if they are in browse/run tool mode when the global tool is
> not the browse/run tool. For example you can create a single stack which
> has buttons allowing to (say) choose different types of graphic object, but
> still allow you to create the graphic objects on that stack with the
> standard graphic object tools. (i.e. You get a simple vector graphic object
> editor).
>
> In the IDE the 'cantSelect' property can seem strange because the IDE
> shares the same notion of current tool that user stacks do. Ideally the IDE
> 'tool' would be distinct from the user stack 'tools'; in much the same was
> as ideally it wouldn't have to rely on the same set of object manipulation
> messages as user stacks do (hence the current problem with palettes not
> updating when lock messages is in effect).
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From paul at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 11:30:07 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 08:30:07 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <780a816fe3e87f8a5b4457810d47a771@livecode.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7DEA5B63-9EE8-41FC-AC28-FAF6AB188B36@livecode.org>
	<780a816fe3e87f8a5b4457810d47a771@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <067E8A34-F890-42E5-B43D-25E79F6CE3FD@livecode.org>

Thank you for your reply Mark, it?s good to know the teams perspective on these things.

Unfortunately, finding a reproducible set of steps isn?t proving easy, I?m currently having problems with the Message Box and Project Browser (Bug: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17048 ), where lengthy error messages appear in the MB and the PB suddenly becomes empty.

Another problem that I can?t find a recipe for, is the ?tree link lines? in the PB don?t always match up, closing and re-opening the PB seems to fix the issue. Next time I see it I?ll try to be more aware of the steps. I?ll certainly report it if I can find the recipe.

Another occasional problem, closing a stack using ?Close and Remove From Memory? may close the stack and remove it's entry in the PB, but by closing and re-opening the PB shows it's entry in the PB once again, even when the ?destroyStack? & ?'destroyWindow? are checked and ?cantDelete?, ?cantModify? and ?cantAbort? are unchecked. I?ll do some more testing to see if I can nail this one down, but I have a feeling it?s closely related to the bug# 17048.

Regards,

Paul

> On Mar 3, 2016, at 7:06 AM, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2016-03-03 16:02, Paul Hibbert wrote:
>> On the subject of improving the Project Browser, I would like to see a
>> ?Refresh? button added to this palette, probably in the header bar by
>> the gear icon. Sometimes the PB doesn?t always update in the way you
>> would expect and the only way to refresh it right now is to close and
>> re-open the palette, I seem to have to do this all too often.
> 
> We'd rather not add a 'refresh' button to the project browser - if there are instances where it does not update correctly then we need to fix those instances. So, if you can find a reproducible set of steps for when it occurs please do file a bug report so we can address the problem.
> 
> We do know that there will be refresh problems currently for certain (control and stack manipulation) scripts when lockMessages is true (i.e. when in a lock messages ... unlock messages block). Would that explain what you are seeing?
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From gbojsza at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 11:37:29 2016
From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 11:37:29 -0500
Subject: Apple Automator
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5khgP94739-9beCE4Ag-ky9s2tT3r48j-HwQrWkzGncZ3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E781848C-810D-4A2A-94DE-81345048E30E@gmail.com>
	<CA+uh5khgP94739-9beCE4Ag-ky9s2tT3r48j-HwQrWkzGncZ3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACW8NbBQQNbFBz7A9B3RRviALHvLSO6uSuzq1PkefH4azpNDcw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kay,

This was exactly what I was looking for and answers a lot of my questions.

Thanks!

Glen

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 5:29 AM, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 2:24 AM, Glen Bojsza <gbojsza at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is it possible to launch Apple Automator shell scripts from LC app?
>
> If by shell script you mean Workflow, then the answer is yes.
>
> Try this:
>
> Open up Automator, create a new workflow, go to the iTunes actions and
> drag 'Start iTunes Playing' into the right side. Save this to your
> Documents folder as 'test.workflow'
>
> Quit Automator.
>
> Start AppleScript Editor, click on the record button, then double
> click on your test.workflow so that Automator starts up. Go back to
> the AppleScript Editor and click stop. In the workspace their should
> be something like this:
>
> tell application "Finder"
> activate
> open document file "test.workflow" of folder "Documents" of folder
> "yourname" of folder "Users" of startup disk
> end tell
>
>
> To that add the following 4 lines:
>
> delay 2
> tell application "Automator"
> execute workflow "test.workflow"
> end tell
>
> So the whole lot in AppleScript should look like this:
>
> tell application "Finder"
> activate
> open document file "test.workflow" of folder "Documents" of folder
> "yourname" of folder "Users" of startup disk
> end tell
> delay 2
> tell application "Automator"
> execute workflow "test.workflow"
> end tell
>
> Quit Automator.
>
> Click on the Run button in AppleScript Editor. Automator should start
> up with your test.workflow and it should start iTunes playing. If not
> there might be an error about 'Can't get workflow "test.workflow" If
> so you need to try a bigger delay.
>
> Once you've got that working, Quit iTunes and Automator.
>
> You now go to LiveCode, New Stack, drag a button onto it.
>
> The next part is the hard part. You have to take that entire script
> above and put it into a variable, in this case I've called it tScript.
> You have to be careful because every " (quote) used in the script
> above MUST appear as the word 'quote' in the variable tScript. You
> have to also add all the carriage returns - cr
>
> So basically: tell application "Finder"
> becomes: "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote
>
> The final script for your button should look like this:
>
> on mouseUp
> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> "activate" & cr & \
> "open document file " & quote & "test.workflow" & quote & " of folder
> " & quote & "Documents" & quote & " of folder " & quote & "yourname" &
> quote & " of folder " & quote & "Users" & quote & " of startup disk" &
> cr & \
> "end tell" & cr & \
> "delay 2" & cr & \
> "tell application " & quote & "Automator" & quote & cr & \
> "execute workflow " & quote & "test.workflow" & quote & cr & \
> "end tell" into tScript
>
> do tScript as "AppleScript"
>
> end mouseUp
>
> If it doesn't work, add a breakpoint and stop at the:
>
> put ".........    ......." into tScript
>
>  line and double check what is in tScript looks exactly the same -
> same number of lines, same quotes, as it appears in the AppleScript
> Editor. Once you have it perfect then:
>
> do tScript as "AppleScript"
>
> will cause AppleScript to launch, which will then launch your workflow.
>
> Practically, if you create the workflow as described, and give it the
> name 'test.workflow'. You should be able to just copy and past the
> LiveCode script here into your button, change 'yourname' to whatever
> your computer account name is and it should work. The only gotcha is
> you have to careful of linebreaks as email clients have a tendency to
> add hard line wraps where there is a soft line wrap: - the 4th line is
> very long
>
> 1st line: on mouseUp
> 7 lines which all end in: cr & \
> 9th line:  "end tell" into tScript
> blank line
> do tScript as "AppleScript"
> blank line
> last line: end mouseUp
>
> 13 lines total
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From paul at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 11:51:43 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 08:51:43 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycNpyNm631sdYvpj2quo7zr3qhpiJ=-J+RT4AHb5YMZxuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com> <56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
	<438a838b819818f91ac62cce3c807e1e@livecode.com>
	<CADCoycNpyNm631sdYvpj2quo7zr3qhpiJ=-J+RT4AHb5YMZxuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D76C24C-D82E-4F97-BA86-7FD57E771CE7@livecode.org>

Mike,

I don?t see a search field in the Project Browser, this is what it looks like when it errors?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k3u68fott2n5npd/Screenshot%202016-03-03%2008.46.32.png?dl=0

Thanks for replying anyway.

Paul

> On Mar 3, 2016, at 8:16 AM, Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> You can also click in the search field and then click outside of it to
> force a refresh.




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 12:05:01 2016
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:05:01 +0000
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List Members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.10 RC 1 and 7.1.3 RC
1.

This is a maintenance release containing bug fixes for both versions. You
can see the list of the bugs fixed in the release notes. Moreover, this
release includes an important feature:

The installer is no longer required on OSX. The installation process on OSX
has been updated to no longer require an installer. Instead, LiveCode now
installs like most other OSX applications: drag the app from the DMG to
your Applications folder. For more details, please see the release notes.

*Getting the Release*
To get the release please download the installer directly at:
http://downloads.livecode.com

Warmest regards,
The LiveCode Team
--


From dunbarx at aol.com  Thu Mar  3 12:12:24 2016
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 12:12:24 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <002201d17567$7816b390$68441ab0$@livecode.com>
References: <002201d17567$7816b390$68441ab0$@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1533d775841-5be3-87df@webprd-a29.mail.aol.com>

Whoa,


Stacks can now be behavior references? Now that is terrific.


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Crighton <steven.crighton at livecode.com>
To: use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2016 11:14 am
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks

Dear List

 

In LiveCode 8 there is a new option in the (new) 'New Stack' submenu: Script
only Stack.

 

Mark has just published a blog post on this very subject

 

 <https://livecode.com/script-only-stacks/>
https://livecode.com/script-only-stacks/

 

Looking forward to hearing your comments. Enjoy.

 

Steven



 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Mar  3 12:12:37 2016
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:12:37 +0000
Subject: Toggling Browse-edit modes (was Re: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues)
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69380703-9CF8-48E1-9B5A-6B61B078ED9F@byu.edu>


> On Mar 3, 2016, at 7:22 AM, Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:

> Slightly off-the-subject, but for usability, command-9 and command-0 are a
> PITA to reach for me, as a right-hander, when my right is usually on the
> trackpad or mouse.  Remember the HC days where it was cmd-tab, cmd-tab-tab,
> etc.?  How about cmd-`, cmd-`-`?  For rightities, it's much eaiser to reach
> when your right hand is on the mouse/trackpad.

Mike,

It?s not a well known shortcut, but on Mac OS you can toggle between Browse and Edit modes using Command + Option + Tab. I thought that this worked on Windows, too, with Control + Alt + Tab, but something must have changed, because that key combo now brings up the Windows Application Switcher. 

Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar  3 12:33:07 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:33:07 -0800
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D87553.1030902@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/03/2016 09:05 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote:

> The installer is no longer required on OSX. The installation process on OSX
> has been updated to no longer require an installer. Instead, LiveCode now
> installs like most other OSX applications: drag the app from the DMG to
> your Applications folder.

Yes and no. The application can't be dragged onto the Applications 
folder icon in the DMG folder, like most other installers. It *can* be 
dragged into the Applications folder in the Finder window.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Thu Mar  3 12:48:33 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 12:48:33 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
Message-ID: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>

In the blog post, Mark states that "The fact that script only stack files really are just text files is really important! It means you can edit and create them in any text editor you choose, and use any text based processing tool on them??

I?ve been trying to work with script only stacks on Mac OS X 10.11 for a few weeks now, at least since Livecode version 8 dp12. If I open one up in TextEdit and save it, Livecode gives me the error message: ?Unable to open stack: File is not a stack?. The only way to recover the script has been to copy and paste it from the text editor into a new script only stack script. Additionally, I?ve never been able to create one in a text editor from scratch without getting the same error message from Livecode when I try to open it. I figure I must be doing something wrong because with the team using these all the time I don?t see how they wouldn?t have run into this. Any suggestions?


Tim Bleiler, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer, HSIT
University at Buffalo




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 12:55:53 2016
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:55:53 +0000
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <56D87553.1030902@ahsoftware.net>
References: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D87553.1030902@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9f_vyFgifeXCXYJaxmd_OntUyoTV4V-YHj1hidPjCf7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

I am not sure I follow. I do the following steps:

1. Download the .dmg
2. Once the download finishes, click on the .dmg
3. The dmg folder opens, and I can see the LC icon and the Applications
folder icon.
4. From there, I can drag the LC icon anywhere I want, either onto the
Applications folder icon in the dmg folder, or into any other folder (I
just tried with Desktop)

Am I missing something?

Regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> On 03/03/2016 09:05 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
>
> The installer is no longer required on OSX. The installation process on OSX
>> has been updated to no longer require an installer. Instead, LiveCode now
>> installs like most other OSX applications: drag the app from the DMG to
>> your Applications folder.
>>
>
> Yes and no. The application can't be dragged onto the Applications folder
> icon in the DMG folder, like most other installers. It *can* be dragged
> into the Applications folder in the Finder window.
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar  3 13:02:10 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 18:02:10 +0000
Subject: Use behaviors for button properties
Message-ID: <F3D61AEA26083D3A.587B64F3-D61B-4EC6-A082-26DC4559F5C6@mail.outlook.com>

Is anyone using behaviors to set the presentation layer properties of buttons in their stack this seems to be perhaps a more facile way to adjust the look and feel of your interface rather than using the template button you could just have a behavior and change the behavior I could have sworn that been Beaumont showed this at a conference some years ago

BR

( from my mobile )


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Mar  3 13:03:57 2016
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 19:03:57 +0100
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9f_vyFgifeXCXYJaxmd_OntUyoTV4V-YHj1hidPjCf7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D87553.1030902@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq9f_vyFgifeXCXYJaxmd_OntUyoTV4V-YHj1hidPjCf7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA686DD2-062A-4390-BD56-A0446FBDEB58@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Am 03.03.2016 um 18:55 schrieb panagiotis merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I am not sure I follow. I do the following steps:
> 
> 1. Download the .dmg
> 2. Once the download finishes, click on the .dmg
> 3. The dmg folder opens, and I can see the LC icon and the Applications
> folder icon.
> 4. From there, I can drag the LC icon anywhere I want, either onto the
> Applications folder icon in the dmg folder, or into any other folder (I
> just tried with Desktop)
> 
> Am I missing something?

nope, worked as advertised for me!
Dragged the app onto the Application Alias and it got copied to the app folder!

Try harder, Mark! :-)

> Regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/03/2016 09:05 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
>> 
>> The installer is no longer required on OSX. The installation process on OSX
>>> has been updated to no longer require an installer. Instead, LiveCode now
>>> installs like most other OSX applications: drag the app from the DMG to
>>> your Applications folder.
>>> 
>> 
>> Yes and no. The application can't be dragged onto the Applications folder
>> icon in the DMG folder, like most other installers. It *can* be dragged
>> into the Applications folder in the Finder window.
>> 
>> --
>> Mark Wieder

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 13:12:52 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 18:12:52 +0000
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>
References: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <56D87EA4.8000506@livecode.com>

On 03/03/2016 17:48, Tim Bleiler wrote:
> In the blog post, Mark states that "The fact that script only stack files really are just text files is really important! It means you can edit and create them in any text editor you choose, and use any text based processing tool on them??
>
> I?ve been trying to work with script only stacks on Mac OS X 10.11 for a few weeks now, at least since Livecode version 8 dp12. If I open one up in TextEdit and save it, Livecode gives me the error message: ?Unable to open stack: File is not a stack?. The only way to recover the script has been to copy and paste it from the text editor into a new script only stack script. Additionally, I?ve never been able to create one in a text editor from scratch without getting the same error message from Livecode when I try to open it. I figure I must be doing something wrong because with the team using these all the time I don?t see how they wouldn?t have run into this. Any suggestions?

The only thing I can think of to suggest is to make sure that your 
editor is saving the file as UTF-16 text.

Usually script-only stacks start with a UTF-16 byte order mark.

                                Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Thu Mar  3 13:24:13 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:24:13 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <56D87EA4.8000506@livecode.com>
References: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>
	<56D87EA4.8000506@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>

Thanks Peter,

I gave that a try and I still get the same message. My attempts to create them from scratch were saved as UTF-8 and I?ve tried all the other options in TextEdit as well.  I have noticed  that if I open a functioning script only stack in ATOM it is identified as UTF-8.

Tim


> On Mar 3, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 03/03/2016 17:48, Tim Bleiler wrote:
>> In the blog post, Mark states that "The fact that script only stack files really are just text files is really important! It means you can edit and create them in any text editor you choose, and use any text based processing tool on them??
>> 
>> I?ve been trying to work with script only stacks on Mac OS X 10.11 for a few weeks now, at least since Livecode version 8 dp12. If I open one up in TextEdit and save it, Livecode gives me the error message: ?Unable to open stack: File is not a stack?. The only way to recover the script has been to copy and paste it from the text editor into a new script only stack script. Additionally, I?ve never been able to create one in a text editor from scratch without getting the same error message from Livecode when I try to open it. I figure I must be doing something wrong because with the team using these all the time I don?t see how they wouldn?t have run into this. Any suggestions?
> 
> The only thing I can think of to suggest is to make sure that your editor is saving the file as UTF-16 text.
> 
> Usually script-only stacks start with a UTF-16 byte order mark.
> 
>                               Peter
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 13:38:50 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 10:38:50 -0800
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>

Tim Bleiler wrote:
> Thanks Peter,
>
> I gave that a try and I still get the same message. My attempts to create them from scratch were saved as UTF-8 and I?ve tried all the other options in TextEdit as well.  I have noticed  that if I open a functioning script only stack in ATOM it is identified as UTF-8.

I wonder if it needs to use LC's native line ending, ASCII 10, rather 
than ASCII 13 that many Mac tools use.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 13:48:10 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 10:48:10 -0800
Subject: Does revert command not work on palettes?
Message-ID: <56D886EA.7010400@fourthworld.com>

I have a routine that includes:

   set the defaultStack to tValidStackName
   revert

...and instead of reverting the specified stack it reverts the topmost 
toplevel stack.

Why?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 13:50:57 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 10:50:57 -0800
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DqOBnfA5r0iw=YweArbZmD=xBOWRHpLwhC6FaEwHhc7pg@mail.gmail.com>

I was just reading that the line endings can be different (because of
course they can).
http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/scripts1.html#trouble

*Make sure line endings in scripts are correct for the server platform. DOS
line endings are carriage return and linefeed. Unix line endings are a
single linefeed. Macintosh line endings are a single carriage return (but
note that scripts run by Apache in OS X require Unix line endings.)*
On Mar 3, 2016 10:39 AM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> Tim Bleiler wrote:
>
>> Thanks Peter,
>>
>> I gave that a try and I still get the same message. My attempts to create
>> them from scratch were saved as UTF-8 and I?ve tried all the other options
>> in TextEdit as well.  I have noticed  that if I open a functioning script
>> only stack in ATOM it is identified as UTF-8.
>>
>
> I wonder if it needs to use LC's native line ending, ASCII 10, rather than
> ASCII 13 that many Mac tools use.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Thu Mar  3 13:57:32 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:57:32 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>



> On Mar 3, 2016, at 1:38 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> I wonder if it needs to use LC's native line ending, ASCII 10, rather than ASCII 13 that many Mac tools use.

Thanks Richard,

First, do you know of way to set this in TextEdit? I don?t see anything that can change that. Second, if that is the case, then the descriptions of how to use the script only files or how Livecode processes them probably will need to change. Should we call this a bug?

Tim

From rman at free.fr  Thu Mar  3 13:30:45 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 10:30:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>
References: <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <1457029845380-4701951.post@n4.nabble.com>

<< I believe any media or other content (whether separate files or not)
distributed with the application and/or required to make it function fully
would need to be licensed in a GPL compatible license.>>

Hi Monte, I believe (!)  that this belief is kind of a key issue in
attempting to identify the scope of GPL for livecode stacks and their
content.

I invite all of you (all) to , put on the legal hat for a while and walk
into the following story :

GPL is a very special kind of automatic contract that is attached to a piece
of work and which describes what the receiver of that piece of work can or
not do with it.

As such it is a very special contract in the world of contracts because it
does not require the agreement of the receiver, which is "implied" by the
act of receiving. So it is not the strongest type of contract.

Now and this is key to understand : a contract is itself a piece of work
that exist within a certain legal framework namely "the law" (the legal
codes etc & jurisprudence).

In that framework, there is a hierarchy of codes : from constitution at the
top to applications provisions down the road. it's kind of like in Object
programming. Except that you don't ask; Top objects set the law. Whatever
you try to do at the lower level.

Contracts that you can write must obey to the general rules. Some of these
rules are "imperative" no matter what the intent of a contractor may be
there are things that they just cannot do.

Among these, lies copyright. Copyright is a strong piece of legal meat which
has imperative laws that no one can circunvent. And that is particularly the
case in France/Europe which has a strong implementation of droits d'auteurs.
Anglos saxon copyright is much weaker on some points.

Copyrights has been structured according to various protected activities
from "fine art" painting, music, writing to "less fine art" like photo
graphics, sounds and lastly to "coding". Each of these activities/objects
have some special variations of rules which have organized themselves over
centuries.

A GPL license can set rules regarding it's own original object like "thou
shall re-distribute me, in whole or in part, with the same rights you
received". This can be symbolized by :
I received package CODE-A, i must re-distribute CODE-A with the same rights
i received.

The GPL license has extended the law in enforcing that all direct derivated
work be treated at par-level to the main body of work received, without
limit in time or scope or locality.
I received package CODE-A + I add package CODE-B which is of the same nature
than package A, namely CODE, and strongly interconnected to A, than I have
to re-distribute with same rights as CODE-A.

I say stretched out already because one strong legal principle that have
evolved over centuries is the principle that you should not engage futures
for an un-limited scope. Put into other words : a contract I make with any
publisher that all my future work will have to be signed with him without
time limit is VOID by law. e.i not acceptable.

So in the GPL case, this principle is clearly put aside (there is no time
limit or territorial limit) and this has been accepted, I guess lawers try
to be practical somehow.

But GPL license will not be able to act by magic on something else like a
picture, which is of a different legal nature governed by its own set of
legal rules which are "imperative" to the GPL.

That would be an extension of the extension, reaching limits of the existing
set of legal fundamentals.

I received package CODE-A + I add package CODE-B [of same nature &
intimitaly interconnected]
+ I add package IMAGE-C [of a different nature, somehow connected, but not
intimately]
=>  than I have created a COMPOUND package legally because CODE and IMAGE
are not governed by the same legal set of rules.  All the code part A+B is
governed by GPL fine, but all the IMAGE-C part is governed by whatever
copyright or CC or else.

Now the FFS (and it seems livecode counsels) tries to blow away the
difference between CODE and IMAGES and so on (including all media types and
all activities protected) and impose a kind of over-ruling of CODE over
everything else. Is that defendable? wise?

I do not think this would be wise because it would only favor even more the
big big super firms in asserting their rights over everything in that world.
It seems a good thing to me to keeps things separated.
Alphabet already nearly owns the alphabet some way. 

So far, they got a clear first ruling against that in the wordpress case.
And javascript clarified the case with a specific extension making it clear
that an HTML page that calls a javascript function is not regarded as
derivated art of javascript! (the case would have been very difficult to
defend). Livecode could well do the same.

I hope that these precisions will help all of us better grasp the legal
background of the issue of how GPL applies to Livecode stacks and their
contents.

Robert

Of course, that is no legal device and just the point of view of a
"bienveillant" and honorable member of that list delivered here as "food for
thoughts" in accordance with the objectives of that list.


Monte Goulding-2 wrote
>> On 2 Mar 2016, at 4:35 PM, J. Landman Gay &lt;

> jacque@

> &gt; wrote:
>> 
>> Does that sound right to all you guys who read up on this stuff?
> 
> I believe any media or other content (whether separate files or not)
> distributed with the application and/or required to make it function fully
> would need to be licensed in a GPL compatible license.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list

> use-livecode at .runrev

> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4701951.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From bogdanoff at me.com  Thu Mar  3 13:59:00 2016
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 10:59:00 -0800
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <002201d17567$7816b390$68441ab0$@livecode.com>
References: <002201d17567$7816b390$68441ab0$@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <661FA89A-D640-43BB-8836-988947A8740F@me.com>

It would seem that script-only stacks would not be able to be locked?have the password property set.

This would seem to be a limitation for commercially-released projects with library stacks, unless they are a substack of something else.

Peter Bogdanoff
UCLA

> On Mar 3, 2016, at 8:12 AM, Steven Crighton <steven.crighton at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear List
> 
> 
> 
> In LiveCode 8 there is a new option in the (new) 'New Stack' submenu: Script
> only Stack.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark has just published a blog post on this very subject
> 
> 
> 
> <https://livecode.com/script-only-stacks/>
> https://livecode.com/script-only-stacks/
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your comments. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> Steven
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Thu Mar  3 14:01:48 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 20:01:48 +0100
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
	<8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>

I think TextWrangler is a better choice than TextEdit for this purpose. In textWrangler you can specify both UTF 16 and Unix line endings.

Tore
> 3. mar. 2016 kl. 19.57 skrev Tim Bleiler <bleiler at buffalo.edu>:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 3, 2016, at 1:38 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I wonder if it needs to use LC's native line ending, ASCII 10, rather than ASCII 13 that many Mac tools use.
> 
> Thanks Richard,
> 
> First, do you know of way to set this in TextEdit? I don?t see anything that can change that. Second, if that is the case, then the descriptions of how to use the script only files or how Livecode processes them probably will need to change. Should we call this a bug?
> 
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 14:06:35 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 11:06:35 -0800
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
References: <8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <56D88B3B.1040002@fourthworld.com>

Tim Bleiler wrote:

 >> On Mar 3, 2016, at 1:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> I wonder if it needs to use LC's native line ending, ASCII 10,
 >> rather than ASCII 13 that many Mac tools use.
 >
 > Thanks Richard,
 >
 > First, do you know of way to set this in TextEdit? I don?t see
 > anything that can change that.

I haven't used TextEdit in years, so I'm not sure what options it has 
for setting line endings.  I tend to edit text in LC or a variety of 
Linux tools, all which use the Unix convention of ASCII 10 for line endings.

 > Second, if that is the case, then the descriptions of how to use
 > the script only files or how Livecode processes them probably will
 > need to change. Should we call this a bug?

Let's find out if that's the issue first.  Does it work if you save the 
file out of a field with binfile?

If so, it may be useful to note the line ending requirement.  Where is 
that documentation?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rman at free.fr  Thu Mar  3 13:43:11 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 10:43:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>
References: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <1457030591050-4701956.post@n4.nabble.com>

I guess you checked that the first line is not empty and that there is no
space before the first line?

"script" must be at the beginning of first line. Engine is very pick at
that.

And sometimes the engine/ide adds another line at top, leading to 2 lines
starting with "script"
so in the erasing process, by hand.. things can happen.
Robert



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Blog-Script-Only-Stacks-tp4701942p4701956.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 14:16:46 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 21:16:46 +0200
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D88D9E.9060405@gmail.com>

Presumably the reason that 6.7.10 is called that rather than 6.8 is a 
signal that this is really the end
of the line for the 6 series?

I still cannot quite work out why the Livecode people continue releasing 
versions of the 6 series when the 7 series is well established.

Richmond.

On 3.03.2016 19:05, panagiotis merakos wrote:
> Dear List Members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.10 RC 1 and 7.1.3 RC
> 1.
>
> This is a maintenance release containing bug fixes for both versions. You
> can see the list of the bugs fixed in the release notes. Moreover, this
> release includes an important feature:
>
> The installer is no longer required on OSX. The installation process on OSX
> has been updated to no longer require an installer. Instead, LiveCode now
> installs like most other OSX applications: drag the app from the DMG to
> your Applications folder. For more details, please see the release notes.
>
> *Getting the Release*
> To get the release please download the installer directly at:
> http://downloads.livecode.com
>
> Warmest regards,
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Thu Mar  3 14:17:59 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:17:59 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
	<8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
	<BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>
Message-ID: <F9C6E658-D129-44D1-9DCC-DE8A64237846@buffalo.edu>


> On Mar 3, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com> wrote:
> 
> I think TextWrangler is a better choice than TextEdit for this purpose. In textWrangler you can specify both UTF 16 and Unix line endings.
> 

TextWrangler shows a working script only stacks as UTF-8, with BOM and Unix (LF).

A ?broken? one shows UTF-8 and Unix (LF). So, the difference is BOM.

A discussion of with or without BOM can be found here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2223882/whats-different-between-utf-8-and-utf-8-without-bom

I guess that leaves the question of whether this should remain a requirement of script only stacks or if the engine can be modified to accept without BOM.

Tim




From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar  3 14:26:22 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 06:26:22 +1100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com> <56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <E0110879-F602-4B83-8A54-304CFB967D83@appisle.net>

I've used it before with large background images Ke graphics. It's pretty annoying to be trying to drag select multiple objects above another object that you don't want to start dragging around...

Sent from my iPhone

> On 4 Mar 2016, at 2:35 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm also curious now about the use case for cantSelect



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar  3 14:30:01 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:30:01 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D890B9.9060705@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/3/2016 8:22 AM, Mike Kerner wrote:
> Slightly off-the-subject, but for usability, command-9 and command-0 are a
> PITA to reach for me, as a right-hander, when my right is usually on the
> trackpad or mouse.

I changed this years ago in a custom frontscript:

on tabKey
   if controlkey() = "down" then
     if the tool = "pointer tool"
     then choose browse tool
     else choose pointer tool
   else pass tabKey
end tabKey

This toggles the browse and edit tools with Control-Tab. If any other 
tool is selected, it will toggle the tool to Edit.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 14:33:03 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 11:33:03 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <E0110879-F602-4B83-8A54-304CFB967D83@appisle.net>
References: <E0110879-F602-4B83-8A54-304CFB967D83@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56D8916F.8010200@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:

 >> On 4 Mar 2016, at 2:35 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:
 >>
 >> I'm also curious now about the use case for cantSelect
 >
 > I've used it before with large background images Ke graphics.
 > It's pretty annoying to be trying to drag select multiple objects
 > above another object that you don't want to start dragging around...

I use lockLoc for that.  In my own work I almost never use cantSelect 
because mouse messages behave VERY differently with objects set to use a 
browse mode while everything else is in pointer mode, which can lead to 
very annoying circumstances of its own depending on your scripts.

Given how frequently folks use lockLoc and how seldom cantSelect is 
used, it would seem a good choice for a tool where space is limited.

As for the Inspector, it may be time to consider a property sheet rather 
than manually arranged control layouts.  VB and Toolbook use prop sheets 
and I love having absolutely every property available in one place. 
Helps with learning too, so folks can see all properties laid out and 
explore them more easily.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Thu Mar  3 14:34:06 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:34:06 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <661FA89A-D640-43BB-8836-988947A8740F@me.com>
References: <002201d17567$7816b390$68441ab0$@livecode.com>
	<661FA89A-D640-43BB-8836-988947A8740F@me.com>
Message-ID: <2C6AA69D-FD93-4DA1-AE98-D63FD5184F53@buffalo.edu>


> On Mar 3, 2016, at 1:59 PM, Peter Bogdanoff <bogdanoff at me.com> wrote:
> 
> It would seem that script-only stacks would not be able to be locked?have the password property set.
> 
> This would seem to be a limitation for commercially-released projects with library stacks, unless they are a substack of something else.


That?s a good point, Peter. Since we can refer to script only stacks in our scripts exactly the same as a regular stack, I think you could work around the problem by making your own "pre-build" controller to loop through all your script only stacks and set their scriptOnly property to false and then lock those stacks as you would in the past before doing the standalone build. Additionally, You?d probably need to make sure you weren?t overwriting your script only versions.

Tim




From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar  3 14:37:43 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 06:37:43 +1100
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <F9C6E658-D129-44D1-9DCC-DE8A64237846@buffalo.edu>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
	<8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
	<BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>
	<F9C6E658-D129-44D1-9DCC-DE8A64237846@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <2B1498E0-0BE1-4085-9EF9-09831721E930@appisle.net>

I know I have discussed this with Mark Waddingham before. I believe he was originally thinking of allowing other encodings at some point but was not averse to my suggestion of only supporting UTF8 with or without BOM.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 4 Mar 2016, at 6:17 AM, Tim Bleiler <bleiler at buffalo.edu> wrote:
> 
> I guess that leaves the question of whether this should remain a requirement of script only stacks or if the engine can be modified to accept without BOM



From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar  3 14:42:20 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 06:42:20 +1100
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <2C6AA69D-FD93-4DA1-AE98-D63FD5184F53@buffalo.edu>
References: <002201d17567$7816b390$68441ab0$@livecode.com>
	<661FA89A-D640-43BB-8836-988947A8740F@me.com>
	<2C6AA69D-FD93-4DA1-AE98-D63FD5184F53@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <96B9469A-C1D9-47E2-9A64-B207DD0E7C7F@appisle.net>

That is indeed the use case I used to justify the inclusion of the property when I contributed it. The other one was a quick way to convert an existing stack to scriptOnly without copy and paste. There was some discussion if we should add the property due to the risks to stack content when setting to true.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 4 Mar 2016, at 6:34 AM, Tim Bleiler <bleiler at buffalo.edu> wrote:
> 
> Since we can refer to script only stacks in our scripts exactly the same as a regular stack, I think you could work around the problem by making your own "pre-build" controller to loop through all your script only stacks and set their scriptOnly property to false and then lock those stacks as you would in the past before doing the standalone build.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Mar  3 14:43:34 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 11:43:34 -0800
Subject: Set the Opacity of a Button Background
In-Reply-To: <9E9F8697-A791-464E-8E63-9EAF70E2F71B@livecode.org>
References: <etPan.56d5e979.189661fd.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56D5EA46.6050904@gmail.com>
	<etPan.56d5ecb4.56bdf1fc.2f9d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<7AADDD8D-6FF0-486D-BF18-1B166E385BB1@mac.com>
	<D2FB446E.7B699%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56d76f31.7ab4cc0.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<9E9F8697-A791-464E-8E63-9EAF70E2F71B@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <D2FDD2C3.7B858%scott@tactilemedia.com>

This a great solution Paul.  And by using a roundrect graphic in place of
a button, you can create pill-style (fully radiused) button -- unless
there's a radius setting for roundrect buttons I've missed somewhere.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/3/16, 6:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Paul Hibbert"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of paul at livecode.org>
wrote:

>You are more than welcome, like most people on this list I?m just pleased
>to help. :)
>
>I?m sure you?ll realize, but the key to this effect is using the Ink
>setting ?blendHardLight' with neutral colours, then any tone above 50%
>will darken the colours below and any tone less than 50% will lighten the
>colours below.
>
>Regards,
>
>Paul
>
>> On Mar 2, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami
>><brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Aloha Paul:
>> 
>> wow... awesome.. you did it! this works perfectly as needed.
>> 
>> So I can just set up a template button and store this and create all
>>new buttons according.
>> 
>> Outstanding.. Big Mahalo from Hawaii
>> 
>> BR
>> 
>> On March 1, 2016 at 11:26:57 AM, Scott Rossi
>>(scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:
>> 
>> By adjusting some colour values and the ink mode I could achieve what I
>>think you are looking for, however I may have misunderstood, because I
>>don?t quite understand the bit about having 50% opacity of a clear
>>background!
>> 
>> Link to demo stack with my interpretation:
>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhjqlx0zhdeyq2f/Button%20Demo.livecode?dl=0
>> 
>> HTH
>> 
>> Paul





From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Thu Mar  3 14:45:32 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:45:32 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <2B1498E0-0BE1-4085-9EF9-09831721E930@appisle.net>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
	<8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
	<BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>
	<F9C6E658-D129-44D1-9DCC-DE8A64237846@buffalo.edu>
	<2B1498E0-0BE1-4085-9EF9-09831721E930@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <8FA6A083-C7C9-47C1-9E44-3FDDAEC42B50@buffalo.edu>

It probably doesn?t matter much as long as it?s made clear what encodings are allowed. I would guess most users taking advantage of this feature could live with that. Casual users may be confused however, because most of us don?t give much thought to such details; a text file is a text file. Mark?s blog post doesn?t make any distinction either and implies any text file should work. 

Tim


> On Mar 3, 2016, at 2:37 PM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
> 
> I know I have discussed this with Mark Waddingham before. I believe he was originally thinking of allowing other encodings at some point but was not averse to my suggestion of only supporting UTF8 with or without BOM.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 4 Mar 2016, at 6:17 AM, Tim Bleiler <bleiler at buffalo.edu <mailto:bleiler at buffalo.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> I guess that leaves the question of whether this should remain a requirement of script only stacks or if the engine can be modified to accept without BOM
> 



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 14:47:55 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 11:47:55 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1457029845380-4701951.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <56D5FDE0.5070308@livecode.com>
	<1456869057844-4701775.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>
	<1457029845380-4701951.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82Dqz0oA+rcLeqQZOXcpDguJXGCNhMnQe12OQRn32uy2gxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Robert Mann <rman at free.fr> wrote:

> << I believe any media or other content (whether separate files or not)
> distributed with the application and/or required to make it function fully
> would need to be licensed in a GPL compatible license.>>
>
> Hi Monte, I believe (!)  that this belief is kind of a key issue in
> attempting to identify the scope of GPL for livecode stacks and their
> content.
>
> I invite all of you (all) to , put on the legal hat for a while and walk
> into the following story :
>
> GPL is a very special kind of automatic contract that is attached to a
> piece
> of work and which describes what the receiver of that piece of work can or
> not do with it.
>
> As such it is a very special contract in the world of contracts because it
> does not require the agreement of the receiver, which is "implied" by the
> act of receiving. So it is not the strongest type of contract.
>

To add to the discussion, for what it's worth, there are good reasons that
proponents of copyleft (like the FSF who wrote the GPL) insist that it's
enforced by copyright law, not contract law. While legal systems do differ
in that some don't distinguish between licenses and contracts, the
distinction is important for copyleft.

In general, a contract has to be bargained, and consideration exchanged,
before it exists, and it only exists between the two parties. Then, if a
contract if violated, you generally can only sue to be made whole, so you
have to be able to show damages. Copyright, on the other hand, exists
instantly and forever, is implicitly accepted by everyone no matter how far
removed from the licensor they end up, and if it's violated you can have
the court take action without showing damages. Additionally, copyright law
is much more homogeneous globally.

So, for FOSS, copyright is a far more attractive legal structure. In the US
court cases where copyleft was upheld judges even cited in their written
opinion that FOSS would be effectively impossible under contract law.


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Mar  3 14:52:30 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 11:52:30 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com> <56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net>
	<56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <D2FDD3FC.7B862%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Not sure about LC8, but up until now, I've used the cantSelect property to
create styled background regions on top of which foreground objects can be
selected.  One example is the checkerboard pattern that's often used in
graphics applications to indicate a transparent background.  By enabling a
control's cantSelect and disabled properties, you can drag-select other
objects on top of that control without interacting with it.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/3/16, 7:35 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

>I'm also curious now about the use case for cantSelect. I realize it's
>not going away since it's always been there, but I'm having trouble
>coming up with a scenario in which this is useful. My worry is that
>we're putting a pretty obscure setting front and center in a primary
>tool for stack design when screen real estate is already at a premium
>(e.g. we're already overloading functions into the PB.





From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Mar  3 15:02:04 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 15:02:04 -0500
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <D2FDD3FC.7B862%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net> <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
	<D2FDD3FC.7B862%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMKhhp4BbA_Dvzd8qXsJeYE=N++h35kDY9CmWrLcK4Ngw@mail.gmail.com>

Whoops - filter box gone in 8.  My bad.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> Not sure about LC8, but up until now, I've used the cantSelect property to
> create styled background regions on top of which foreground objects can be
> selected.  One example is the checkerboard pattern that's often used in
> graphics applications to indicate a transparent background.  By enabling a
> control's cantSelect and disabled properties, you can drag-select other
> objects on top of that control without interacting with it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
> On 3/3/16, 7:35 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>
> >I'm also curious now about the use case for cantSelect. I realize it's
> >not going away since it's always been there, but I'm having trouble
> >coming up with a scenario in which this is useful. My worry is that
> >we're putting a pretty obscure setting front and center in a primary
> >tool for stack design when screen real estate is already at a premium
> >(e.g. we're already overloading functions into the PB.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 15:07:19 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 12:07:19 -0800
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <1457029845380-4701951.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1457029845380-4701951.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56D89977.2000507@fourthworld.com>

Robert Mann wrote:

 > GPL is a very special kind of automatic contract that is attached
 > to a piece of work and which describes what the receiver of that
 > piece of work can or not do with it.
 >
 > As such it is a very special contract in the world of contracts
 > because it does not require the agreement of the receiver, which
 > is "implied" by the act of receiving.

All works, software or otherwise and regardless whether the license is 
open source or proprietary, must include its license terms if the person 
distributing it wants others to use it at all.

The only safe interpretation of a work distributed with no license is 
that it has no license.

Software under proprietary license includes a license, as does software 
under open source license.

There's nothing all that special about the GPL in this regard, nor are 
its terms merely "implied".  The recipient has the license with the 
software, and it's a good idea to read it, as is expected with any 
software, even proprietary packages.



As for the rest of your post, I'm not an attorney.  And while my own 
layman's understanding of GPL terms more closely reflects Mark Wilcox's, 
I've been unable to convince anyone at Drupal, Wordpress, Joomla, or the 
FSF that all of them are wrong with regard to their common 
interpretation of "derived works".

As I wrote here back in Dec of '13 and have referred to since, a clear 
definition distinguishing "derivative work" from "mere aggregation" is, 
in the words of the FSF themselves, "a legal question, which ultimately 
judges will decide."

And given the vast and ever-growing variety of ways code can co-mingle, 
a single definition for all possible cases may even elude a judge if 
this definition is ever needed in court.

It's more than I could claim to offer legally-binding advice to others 
on. "I'm just a humble caveman programmer.  The ways of your attorneys 
frighten and confuse me." :)

So for myself, I tend to interpret all licenses, GPL, proprietary, or 
any other, in the narrowest terms which limit my rights as severely as 
could be reasonably interpreted, so that the odds of my running afoul of 
any possible future definition are as narrowly contained as they can 
practically be.

If I need something that isn't clear, I'll sometimes write the creator 
of the work to have them clarify their intentions in writing. And other 
times I just write my own code.  I made my own CMS because Drupal offers 
no way to deliver proprietary plugins without annoying that community. I 
like Drupal folks; it does me no good to annoy them.

This is just my personal policy, but it lets me get a day's work done 
and sleep at night.

Others may have different goals.  It's possible to spend one's time 
poking and prodding around the edges of what's written to find out where 
the boundaries might be, how much we might be able to get away with even 
if it differs from what we know the author intended.   We can choose to 
spend our time lots of ways.

I'm not an attorney and can offer no legal advice, and unless someone 
here is licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction and willing to do 
so, your query may be best taken up with a lawyer licensed as such in 
your area.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jiml at netrin.com  Thu Mar  3 15:22:27 2016
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 12:22:27 -0800
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3178.1457028139.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.3178.1457028139.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BE8CA60D-55FA-4B4F-A511-BB72E482FB76@netrin.com>

> TimB wrote:
> If I open one up in TextEdit and save it, Livecode gives me the error message: ?Unable to open stack: File is not a stack?.

Hi Tim,
I?m not seeing that here with LC 8.0 (dp 15)

1. Launch TextEdit
2. File > New
3. Format > Make Plain Text
4. type

script "test2"
on openstack
answer "Wow!"
end openstack

5. File > Save
6. name it
?test2.livecode"  Use UTF-8 encoding
7. File > Close

8. Switch to LC
9. File > Open Stack?
10. Select ?test2.livecode?
11. Answer dialog appears with ?Wow!?

Jim Lambert




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 15:25:22 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 20:25:22 +0000
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <661FA89A-D640-43BB-8836-988947A8740F@me.com>
References: <002201d17567$7816b390$68441ab0$@livecode.com>
	<661FA89A-D640-43BB-8836-988947A8740F@me.com>
Message-ID: <56D89DB2.8060107@livecode.com>

On 03/03/2016 18:59, Peter Bogdanoff wrote:
> It would seem that script-only stacks would not be able to be locked?have the password property set.
>
> This would seem to be a limitation for commercially-released projects with library stacks, unless they are a substack of something else.

Yes, that's correct.  I guess it would be possible to for someone to 
create a tool that goes through a set of script only stacks, converts 
them to "normal" stackfiles, and adds a password.  That might help 
people who want to develop using script-only stacks and deploy as 
secured stackfiles.

                                  Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 15:28:21 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 20:28:21 +0000
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <56D87EA4.8000506@livecode.com>
References: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>
	<56D87EA4.8000506@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56D89E65.4000305@livecode.com>

On 03/03/2016 18:12, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 03/03/2016 17:48, Tim Bleiler wrote:
>> In the blog post, Mark states that "The fact that script only stack
>> files really are just text files is really important! It means you can
>> edit and create them in any text editor you choose, and use any text
>> based processing tool on them??
>>
>> I?ve been trying to work with script only stacks on Mac OS X 10.11 for
>> a few weeks now, at least since Livecode version 8 dp12. If I open one
>> up in TextEdit and save it, Livecode gives me the error message:
>> ?Unable to open stack: File is not a stack?. The only way to recover
>> the script has been to copy and paste it from the text editor into a
>> new script only stack script. Additionally, I?ve never been able to
>> create one in a text editor from scratch without getting the same
>> error message from Livecode when I try to open it. I figure I must be
>> doing something wrong because with the team using these all the time I
>> don?t see how they wouldn?t have run into this. Any suggestions?
>
> The only thing I can think of to suggest is to make sure that your
> editor is saving the file as UTF-16 text.
>
> Usually script-only stacks start with a UTF-16 byte order mark.

And of course I have egg on my face because script-only stacks are 
UTF-8, not UTF-16.  Thank you to everyone who corrected me!

                                       Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar  3 16:12:03 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:12:03 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <D2FDD3FC.7B862%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <75184322-B78A-453A-966C-5A8C8F931D6B@earthednet.org>
	<56D61A11.6010803@livecode.com>
	<CAGDT7ePsk7r6SsBVau2YQNT-nDqAR1RZbNn4-sc+L+nLAOwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D62F03.9060904@hyperactivesw.com> <56D698AB.5090200@livecode.com>
	<56D71496.3020606@ahsoftware.net> <56D76479.9020905@livecode.com>
	<CA+JfEq-qFri_sysmAXc_C2MAt9GZvjbpRAFiLjtrVoc1R1JBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D78B8C.3030006@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq8B3L8M=VCvC=sAmvu5DR6iCtvF0=r=VVmNb+06Ea2u6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D859AF.6070508@ahsoftware.net>
	<D2FDD3FC.7B862%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <56D8A8A3.20909@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/03/2016 11:52 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> Not sure about LC8, but up until now, I've used the cantSelect property to
> create styled background regions on top of which foreground objects can be
> selected.  One example is the checkerboard pattern that's often used in
> graphics applications to indicate a transparent background.  By enabling a
> control's cantSelect and disabled properties, you can drag-select other
> objects on top of that control without interacting with it.

Cool. Thanks for the use cases, folks. Maybe cantSelect isn't as arcane 
as I had thought.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar  3 16:16:48 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:16:48 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D8916F.8010200@fourthworld.com>
References: <E0110879-F602-4B83-8A54-304CFB967D83@appisle.net>
	<56D8916F.8010200@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56D8A9C0.6060107@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/03/2016 11:33 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> As for the Inspector, it may be time to consider a property sheet rather
> than manually arranged control layouts.  VB and Toolbook use prop sheets
> and I love having absolutely every property available in one place.
> Helps with learning too, so folks can see all properties laid out and
> explore them more easily.
>

Yeah, I'd really like to have actual property sheets.

And as far as disruptive paradigms, I've always been annoyed at having 
to go to the property inspector and have to remember where the 
'contents' section is to set the text of a label field. Double-clicking 
a label field in Edit mode should do the trick. I made a plugin to allow 
this, and I imagine everyone else did too. But I shouldn't have to do 
this, the IDE should just do that natively.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar  3 16:20:13 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:20:13 -0800
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9f_vyFgifeXCXYJaxmd_OntUyoTV4V-YHj1hidPjCf7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D87553.1030902@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq9f_vyFgifeXCXYJaxmd_OntUyoTV4V-YHj1hidPjCf7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D8AA8D.9070902@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/03/2016 09:55 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> I am not sure I follow. I do the following steps:
>
> 1. Download the .dmg
> 2. Once the download finishes, click on the .dmg
> 3. The dmg folder opens, and I can see the LC icon and the Applications
> folder icon.
> 4. From there, I can drag the LC icon anywhere I want, either onto the
> Applications folder icon in the dmg folder, or into any other folder (I
> just tried with Desktop)
>
> Am I missing something?

Interesting.
I tried it five times, then finally just dragged it to the Finding 
window. All I get is the whateveritscalled circle with a bar through it, 
indicating that it can't be done. Anyway, it appears to be localized to 
just my mac, and I've done the workaround, so no worries.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From dochawk at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 16:22:31 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:22:31 -0800
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <56D87553.1030902@ahsoftware.net>
References: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D87553.1030902@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSEoKMB0p5zGnukWk-ac+PNgW5NCAqAo0QvHmH1B-8PsNA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Yes and no. The application can't be dragged onto the Applications folder
> icon in the DMG folder, like most other installers


I was able to to that with no problem at all, and it successfully launched,
activated its license, and ran


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 16:36:36 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:36:36 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D8A8A3.20909@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56D8A8A3.20909@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56D8AE64.1000001@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

 > On 03/03/2016 11:52 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
 >> Not sure about LC8, but up until now, I've used the cantSelect
 >> property to create styled background regions on top of which
 >> foreground objects can be selected.  One example is the checkerboard
 >> pattern that's often used in graphics applications to indicate a
 >> transparent background.  By enabling a control's cantSelect and
 >> disabled properties, you can drag-select other objects on top of
 >> that control without interacting with it.
 >
 > Cool. Thanks for the use cases, folks. Maybe cantSelect isn't as
 > arcane as I had thought.

Ironically, drag-select is the exact use case that prompted me to STOP 
using cantSelect.  I was working on a drawing pane and had an object 
covering the full space within the drawing region behind everything else 
I wanted to user to be able to interact with.  My turning on the 
cantSelect for that larger object it no longer responds to the pointer 
tool, which is expected of course but makes drag-select impossible is 
the drag begins within that object.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Mar  3 16:39:48 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 16:39:48 -0500
Subject: Image Quality
In-Reply-To: <56D89E65.4000305@livecode.com>
References: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>	<56D87EA4.8000506@livecode.com>
	<56D89E65.4000305@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <009c01d17595$363e6250$a2bb26f0$@net>

Am I missing something here on an images control?

If the LC prefs are set to "Property labels are: Name of LiveCode Property"

One of the labels for an image in the Property Inspector is "Quality". This is not an image property. The property is really named "resizequality". In the IDE if resizequality is set from the message box or script the image quality does not change unless you click on a tool or even hover over it until the tool tip appears. When the tool tip appears the image's quality obviously changes.

I think the label is a bug but is the IDE showing the quality change just a limitation?

LC 6.7.6

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net




From hh at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 16:52:38 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 22:52:38 +0100
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
Message-ID: <F642C737-C664-4527-BC8A-708ADD0C8CD1@livecode.org>

Yet another variant if one doesn't like to use dragging, Finder 10.11.2 is
very buggy with that, and all that spring-loading folders (or if one is not
fast enough with typing for the terminal one-liner):

Simply select the app icon (by mouse or keyboard)
and copy.
Go to where you wish to have it (using Finder or terminal)
and paste.

@Panos
Congratulations! This is the fastest installation of LC 6/7 I've ever seen.




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu Mar  3 17:05:08 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:05:08 -0500
Subject: LC8 IDE Parser
In-Reply-To: <56D89E65.4000305@livecode.com>
References: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>	<56D87EA4.8000506@livecode.com>
	<56D89E65.4000305@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <009d01d17598$c06e06d0$414a1470$@net>

First of all...Kudos to the Dev team for tightening up the IDE parser!!!

I had a library stack that would not compile because this is not allowed anymore "repeat while (1=1))" no complaints from LC6 but LC8(rightfully so) flags this as a compile error.  But this caused me some confusion. When the IDE loads the library stack from My Livecode/Plugins it failed to compile. The stack showed up in the project browser but not in the "stacksinuse". When I opened up my main stack the stack looked at stacksinuse and did not find the library stack and attempted to load it(for mobile) and I got the "there is already a stack named .... in memory" with the usual purge/cancel... dialog box. I was confused for a short while until I figured it out. I don?t know how to avoid this type of confusion but newbies would be scratching their heads for quite a while.


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net




From hh at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 17:16:27 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 23:16:27 +0100
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
Message-ID: <A4E7711F-AA18-4012-8D88-15E5439B2198@livecode.org>

> Richmond M. wrote:
> Presumably the reason that 6.7.10 is called that rather than 6.8 is a 
> signal that this is really the end of the line for the 6 series?
> I still cannot quite work out why the Livecode people continue releasing 
> versions of the 6 series when the 7 series is well established.

**** 6.7.10 doesn't crash at startup (!!) and is crazy fast. ****
Will not work with LC 8 for a while, LC 6.7.10 is in average 16 times
faster here. And in average 10 times faster than LC 7.



From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar  3 17:44:59 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 22:44:59 +0000
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D890B9.9060705@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D890B9.9060705@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56d8be6b.43ce7e4d.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>

How do you go about inserting this everytime you boot?



On March 3, 2016 at 9:30:17 AM, J. Landman Gay (jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>) wrote:

I changed this years ago in a custom frontscript:

on tabKey
if controlkey() = "down" then
if the tool = "pointer tool"
then choose browse tool
else choose pointer tool
else pass tabKey
end tabKey

This toggles the browse and edit tools with Control-Tab. If any other
tool is selected, it will toggle the tool to Edit.

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 17:47:16 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:47:16 -0800
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <A4E7711F-AA18-4012-8D88-15E5439B2198@livecode.org>
References: <A4E7711F-AA18-4012-8D88-15E5439B2198@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <56D8BEF4.1090304@fourthworld.com>

hh wrote:

 > Will not work with LC 8 for a while, LC 6.7.10 is in average 16 times
 > faster here. And in average 10 times faster than LC 7.

My own test are showing v8 rather close for v6 in performance, and must 
faster than 7.

What script(s) are you running which get those results?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar  3 17:47:56 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 09:47:56 +1100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D8AE64.1000001@fourthworld.com>
References: <56D8A8A3.20909@ahsoftware.net> <56D8AE64.1000001@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B759651F-1C1F-4B08-80ED-38915522DF22@appisle.net>


> On 4 Mar 2016, at 8:36 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Ironically, drag-select is the exact use case that prompted me to STOP using cantSelect.  I was working on a drawing pane and had an object covering the full space within the drawing region behind everything else I wanted to user to be able to interact with.  My turning on the cantSelect for that larger object it no longer responds to the pointer tool, which is expected of course but makes drag-select impossible is the drag begins within that object.

Yes, this would seem to be a bug in cantSelect where you can drag to select everything else but only if the initial click is not inside the cantSelect object. I?m not positive it has always been this way as it seems to rule out the use case that both Scott and I have used it for!

Cheers

Monte

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar  3 17:58:09 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:58:09 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d8be6b.43ce7e4d.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D890B9.9060705@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d8be6b.43ce7e4d.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56D8C181.1060409@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/03/2016 02:44 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> How do you go about inserting this everytime you boot?

Put it in a plugin stack
Plugin's stackPreOpenStack inserts the script in front
Set the plugin to run when the IDE launches

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar  3 18:07:50 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:07:50 -0600
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d8be6b.43ce7e4d.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D890B9.9060705@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56d8be6b.43ce7e4d.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56D8C3C6.1070603@hyperactivesw.com>

I made a custom plugin stack. In the plugin settings, it's set to open 
invisibly on startup. In the plugin stack script:

on preOpenStack
   insert script of btn "abc" into front
   insert script of btn "xyz" into back
   -- a bunch of other customizations
end preOpenStack

Works great, I forget it's there but I use my shortcuts all the time. My 
backscript has shortcuts dating back to HyperCard, the frontscript is 
much smaller.


On 3/3/2016 4:44 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> How do you go about inserting this everytime you boot?
>
>
>
> On March 3, 2016 at 9:30:17 AM, J. Landman Gay (jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>) wrote:
>
> I changed this years ago in a custom frontscript:
>
> on tabKey
> if controlkey() = "down" then
> if the tool = "pointer tool"
> then choose browse tool
> else choose pointer tool
> else pass tabKey
> end tabKey
>
> This toggles the browse and edit tools with Control-Tab. If any other
> tool is selected, it will toggle the tool to Edit.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Thu Mar  3 18:16:25 2016
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 01:16:25 +0200
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <F642C737-C664-4527-BC8A-708ADD0C8CD1@livecode.org>
References: <F642C737-C664-4527-BC8A-708ADD0C8CD1@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-M-A2=_x2UKdEB_mPsFhUXBvCkfkVvXNCrPVmSZ2hD3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations go to Fraser, who implemented the new installation method
on osx ;)
On 3 Mar 2016 21:52, "[-hh]" <hh at livecode.org> wrote:

> Yet another variant if one doesn't like to use dragging, Finder 10.11.2 is
> very buggy with that, and all that spring-loading folders (or if one is not
> fast enough with typing for the terminal one-liner):
>
> Simply select the app icon (by mouse or keyboard)
> and copy.
> Go to where you wish to have it (using Finder or terminal)
> and paste.
>
> @Panos
> Congratulations! This is the fastest installation of LC 6/7 I've ever seen.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From paul at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 18:44:32 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 15:44:32 -0800
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-M-A2=_x2UKdEB_mPsFhUXBvCkfkVvXNCrPVmSZ2hD3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F642C737-C664-4527-BC8A-708ADD0C8CD1@livecode.org>
	<CA+JfEq-M-A2=_x2UKdEB_mPsFhUXBvCkfkVvXNCrPVmSZ2hD3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB0563CA-72C8-47A8-BDC5-90089B0A1DF6@livecode.org>

Install works fine for me, however, the PB in 7.1.3 RC 1 still shows resize issues by not updating the contents to suit the new window size.

I found swapping lines 2652/3 of the PB stack script in 7.1.3 RC 1 fixes the problem there, but in 6.7.10 RC 1 I also had to disable line 2658.

Is it worth a couple of bug reports?

Paul


From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  3 18:46:50 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 15:46:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: LC8 dp15 Cef Browser crash in Ubuntu
Message-ID: <1457048810893-4701990.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi All,

I just updated this report with screenshots
from the Cef Browser crash report window 
from Ubuntu.

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15931

Please, if you use Ubuntu and LC8 dp15
crash while using Cef browser, check
these screenshots and verify if your
crash report is the similar to this.

Thanks in advance!

Alejandro 



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-dp15-Cef-Browser-crash-in-Ubuntu-tp4701990.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From hh at livecode.org  Thu Mar  3 19:51:10 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 01:51:10 +0100
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
Message-ID: <D2E8D8F6-16B8-4B5C-A99B-12925D5B1F13@livecode.org>

> > hh wrote: 
> > Will not work with LC 8 for a while, LC 6.7.10 is in average 16 times 
> > faster here. And in average 10 times faster than LC 7. 
> 
> FourthWorld wrote:
> My own test are showing v8 rather close for v6 in performance, and much
> faster than 7. What script(s) are you running which get those results? 

Let's take a simple example that was recently here in the list.
For your comfort the script is attached below.

It is also a field, where LC 8 is said to be already optimized.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Here are my results from a medium fast machine (Mac mini, i5-2.5GHz)
Task (=1 x mouseUp): 100 repeats of find the minimum of 1000 integers

Version: replaceText - replace - min() - sort
6.7.10-rc1: 0.30 - 0.07 - 0.06 - 0.21 (worst timing of 10 x mouseUp)
7.1.3 -rc1: 1.78 - 4.43 - 1.38 - 0.95 (best  timing of 10 x mouseUp)
8.0.0-dp15: 1.94 - 4.69 - 1.49 - 0.94 (best  timing of 10 x mouseUp)

So the time needed is in relation 
for the "LC-given" min() 
... LC 6: LC 7: LC 8 = 1:23:25
and better for the sort
... LC 6: LC 7: LC 8 = 1:5:5
taking the best of each row
... LC 6: LC 7: LC 8 = 1:16:16

Better don't force me to publish the results of animating large polygons.
*** I left these timings out in averaging in order to acknowledge that
*** LC 8 is still in alpha.

I like LC 8 very much and I live with the speed loss I have when I use it
(it's worth for me, if I do so). The speed loss is not the culprit of the
dev team, it's the big bundle of shiny new things we wish to have ...

The script used
(by Thierry, slightly modified and expanded by me)
============================
on mouseUp
  repeat with i=1 to 1000
    get random( 1000)
    put IT & cr after LinesOfNumbers
    put IT & comma after OneLineOfNumbers
    put IT into b[i]
  end repeat
  delete last char of LinesOfNumbers
  delete last char of OneLineOfNumbers
  put 100 into nRepeat
  put the milliseconds into _ct
  -- case 1
  repeat nRepeat
    put min( replaceText( LinesOfNumbers, return,comma)) into min1
  end repeat
  put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing1
  wait 1 ticks with messages
  put the milliseconds into _ct
  -- case 2
  repeat nRepeat
    put LinesOfNumbers into nn
    replace return with comma in nn
    put min(nn) into min2
  end repeat
  put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing2
  wait 1 ticks with messages
  put the milliseconds into _ct
  -- case 3
  repeat nRepeat
    put min( OneLineOfNumbers) into min3
  end repeat
  put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing3
  wait 1 ticks with messages
  put the milliseconds into _ct
  -- case 4
  repeat nRepeat
    put LinesOfNumbers into nn
    sort nn numeric
    put line 1 of nn into min4
  end repeat
  put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing4
  put cr & the version &": "& \
      format( "%.2f - %.2f -  %.2f -  %.2f %s %s %s", \
               timing1, timing2, timing3, timing4, min1 is min3, \
               min2 is min3, min4 is min3) after fld 1
end mouseUp




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 20:49:19 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:49:19 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <B759651F-1C1F-4B08-80ED-38915522DF22@appisle.net>
References: <B759651F-1C1F-4B08-80ED-38915522DF22@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56D8E99F.2030306@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:

 >> On 4 Mar 2016, at 8:36 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> Ironically, drag-select is the exact use case that prompted me
 >> to STOP using cantSelect.  I was working on a drawing pane and
 >> had an object covering the full space within the drawing region
 >> behind everything else I wanted to user to be able to interact
 >> with.  My turning on the cantSelect for that larger object it
 >> no longer responds to the pointer tool, which is expected of
 >> course but makes drag-select impossible is the drag begins within
 >> that object.
 >
 > Yes, this would seem to be a bug in cantSelect where you can drag
 > to select everything else but only if the initial click is not
 > inside the cantSelect object. I?m not positive it has always been
 > this way as it seems to rule out the use case that both Scott and
 > I have used it for!

AFAIK this has always been how it works.  In fact I discussed this with 
Dr. Raney shortly after if was implemented, and in his view it works as 
spec'd:  when you mouseDown anywhere in browser mode it doesn't do 
marquee select, so when an individual object is set to browser mode it 
does the same thing.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar  3 20:53:19 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 12:53:19 +1100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D8E99F.2030306@fourthworld.com>
References: <B759651F-1C1F-4B08-80ED-38915522DF22@appisle.net>
	<56D8E99F.2030306@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <691F62CB-3CCA-4387-A9CA-DCD5EAED9464@appisle.net>


> On 4 Mar 2016, at 12:49 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> AFAIK this has always been how it works.  In fact I discussed this with Dr. Raney shortly after if was implemented, and in his view it works as spec'd: when you mouseDown anywhere in browser mode it doesn't do marquee select, so when an individual object is set to browser mode it does the same thing.

Hmm? it must just be poorly named then. Perhaps it should have been called browseOnly instead of cantSelect?

Cheers

Monte

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar  3 20:45:37 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:45:37 -0800
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <7DEA5B63-9EE8-41FC-AC28-FAF6AB188B36@livecode.org>
References: <7DEA5B63-9EE8-41FC-AC28-FAF6AB188B36@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <56D8E8C1.7040906@fourthworld.com>

Paul Hibbert wrote:
 > Having read some of the posts, especially from RG, I?m now trying to
 > work in LC without the Tools Palette or the ToolBar being visible...

This has made living lean a little easier for me:
<http://fourthworld.com/products/devolution/>

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From heather at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 04:42:24 2016
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 09:42:24 +0000
Subject: Test - nothing to see here
Message-ID: <20B938C2-EC32-47BE-8729-7BA0DD1FCF1C@livecode.com>

Just checking we're all here today...


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com






From heather at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 04:44:47 2016
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 09:44:47 +0000
Subject: Overnight list issues
Message-ID: <BD058A9C-52EC-4565-A7F5-D15153BAA8E3@livecode.com>

Folks, we had a brief issue with the list delivery last night/early this morning. If you sent a post and it has not appeared - check your bounces. You may need to send it again.

Apologies for the inconvenience, all up and running again now.

Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com






From mark at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 04:50:37 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 10:50:37 +0100
Subject: Does revert command not work on =?UTF-8?Q?palettes=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <56D886EA.7010400@fourthworld.com>
References: <56D886EA.7010400@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <e1d9264ee134af36b0877badc25c3f80@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-03 19:48, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> I have a routine that includes:
> 
>   set the defaultStack to tValidStackName
>   revert
> 
> ...and instead of reverting the specified stack it reverts the topmost
> toplevel stack.
> 
> Why?

Because that is the way it has always been...

I suspect the reasoning was that the topStack can be considered the 
top-most document stack, and you'd probably expect 'revert' in isolation 
to act on 'document' stacks.

The best thing here would be to add a variant:

    revert <stack>

So that its operation is entirely clear. Filed as enhancement 
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17061

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 04:52:15 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 10:52:15 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D8E99F.2030306@fourthworld.com>
References: <B759651F-1C1F-4B08-80ED-38915522DF22@appisle.net>
	<56D8E99F.2030306@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <51c94c60f723552fd23bdcb8b0f57aed@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-04 02:49, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> AFAIK this has always been how it works.  In fact I discussed this
> with Dr. Raney shortly after if was implemented, and in his view it
> works as spec'd:  when you mouseDown anywhere in browser mode it
> doesn't do marquee select, so when an individual object is set to
> browser mode it does the same thing.

Given the intent of the property (to make objects run in browse mode 
when another tool is actually selected) I"m not sure it could work any 
other way.

It is the card which provides the marquee selection rect to select 
multiple objects when in pointer tool mode, then individual objects 
defer to the common control base class to provide the click to select 
behavior in pointer tool mode.

When you set the cantSelect of an object, that object will then see the 
tool as browse, so when you click on it that causes the normal browse 
mode event handling to take place - which is defined on a per-object 
basis.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 04:53:16 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 10:53:16 +0100
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D8916F.8010200@fourthworld.com>
References: <E0110879-F602-4B83-8A54-304CFB967D83@appisle.net>
	<56D8916F.8010200@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4c0739be0223be6c5301ce47123fe14c@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-03 20:33, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> As for the Inspector, it may be time to consider a property sheet
> rather than manually arranged control layouts.  VB and Toolbook use
> prop sheets and I love having absolutely every property available in
> one place. Helps with learning too, so folks can see all properties
> laid out and explore them more easily.

The property inspector in 8 *is* a property sheet and it doesn't use 
manually arranged control layouts - everything is generated on demand 
based on data about the different controls (for existing engine controls 
this data is stored in hand-written text files in the IDE, for widgets 
the widget provides all the information necessary itself via LCB's 
metadata feature).

The properties are grouped into sections and currently those sections 
are displayed on different tabs - I don't think an 'all' tab is entirely 
out of the question at some point.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 05:27:41 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 12:27:41 +0200
Subject: Bouncy Castle #1
In-Reply-To: <E1ablGh-0006DT-KK@meg.on-rev.com>
References: <E1ablGh-0006DT-KK@meg.on-rev.com>
Message-ID: <56D9631D.9040206@gmail.com>

Heather wrote:

"

Folks, we had a brief issue with the list delivery last night/early this morning. If you sent a post and it has not appeared - check your bounces. You may need to send it again.

Apologies for the inconvenience, all up and running again now.

Regards,

Heather"

 >> Richmond M. wrote: >>

Presumably the reason that 6.7.10 is called that rather than 6.8 is a
signal that this is really the end of the line for the 6 series?
I still cannot quite work out why the Livecode people continue releasing
  versions of the 6 series when the 7 series is well established.

 > **** 6.7.10 doesn't crash at startup (!!) and is crazy fast. ****
Will not work with LC 8 for a while, LC 6.7.10 is in average 16 times
faster here. And in average 10 times faster than LC 7.

That's impressive: I wonder why the 32 bit Linux builds of the 6 series 
won't run on my 64 bit Xubuntu even though I have multi-arch installed?

Richmond.



From mark at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 05:28:54 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 11:28:54 +0100
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <1457030591050-4701956.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>
	<1457030591050-4701956.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <5a6a17b88bd26cd29286b9e7e5e03f03@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-03 19:43, Robert Mann wrote:
> I guess you checked that the first line is not empty and that there is 
> no
> space before the first line?
> 
> "script" must be at the beginning of first line. Engine is very pick at
> that.
> 
> And sometimes the engine/ide adds another line at top, leading to 2 
> lines
> starting with "script"
> so in the erasing process, by hand.. things can happen.

I guess my original intent of script only stacks was that they would be 
created and edited in the IDE - so the fact that there is some strict 
syntax to follow didn't really matter.

The main problem with allowing the syntax of script only stacks to be 
more flexible is that any information before the very first line of 
script in a script only stack (i.e. after the "script" line) would be 
inaccessible from the engine.

The strictness means that - the implementation of script only stacks is 
simple, and it guarantees that there is no non-code related 'churn' in 
script only stack files. The latter is really important for VCS needs.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 05:29:30 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 12:29:30 +0200
Subject: Bouncy Castle #2
In-Reply-To: <E1ablIu-0006Qw-N1@meg.on-rev.com>
References: <E1ablIu-0006Qw-N1@meg.on-rev.com>
Message-ID: <56D9638A.20701@gmail.com>

Heather wrote:

"Folks, we had a brief issue with the list delivery last night/early this morning. If you sent a post and it has not appeared - check your bounces. You may need to send it again.

Apologies for the inconvenience, all up and running again now.

Regards,

Heather"

Credit where credit is due, indeed.
But a while back (version 2!!!) as far as I remember that was just a dmg 
file containing
something to drag to the Applications folder. Of course Livecode is now 
an almost totally
different beast from what it was at version 2.
Richmond.

On 4.03.2016 01:16, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Congratulations go to 
Fraser, who implemented the new installation method > on osx ;) > On 3 
Mar 2016 21:52, "[-hh]" <hh at livecode.org> wrote: > >> Yet another 
variant if one doesn't like to use dragging, Finder 10.11.2 is >> very 
buggy with that, and all that spring-loading folders (or if one is not 
 >> fast enough with typing for the terminal one-liner): >> >> Simply 
select the app icon (by mouse or keyboard) >> and copy. >> Go to where 
you wish to have it (using Finder or terminal) >> and paste. >> >> 
@Panos >> Congratulations! This is the fastest installation of LC 6/7 
I've ever seen.





From mark at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 05:38:31 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 11:38:31 +0100
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <8FA6A083-C7C9-47C1-9E44-3FDDAEC42B50@buffalo.edu>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
	<8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
	<BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>
	<F9C6E658-D129-44D1-9DCC-DE8A64237846@buffalo.edu>
	<2B1498E0-0BE1-4085-9EF9-09831721E930@appisle.net>
	<8FA6A083-C7C9-47C1-9E44-3FDDAEC42B50@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <695d23583037eeada1a6a0d1fe1e3253@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-03 20:45, Tim Bleiler wrote:
> It probably doesn?t matter much as long as it?s made clear what
> encodings are allowed. I would guess most users taking advantage of
> this feature could live with that. Casual users may be confused
> however, because most of us don?t give much thought to such details; a
> text file is a text file. Mark?s blog post doesn?t make any
> distinction either and implies any text file should work.

The current implementation in the engine uses the BOM to determine what 
the encoding is - if there is no BOM then it assumes the native encoding 
(e.g. MacRoman on Mac).

In terms of line endings, the engine converts all line endings to ASCII 
10 (the universal LiveCode line ending). For reference these are:
    CR LF (ascii 13 then ascii 10 - default windows line endings)
    CR (ascii 13 - old-style Mac line endings)
    LF (ascii 10 - unix line endings)

So, it shouldn't matter what line endings the input file has, and 
whether they are mixed or not.

I'm surprised lack of BOM in a simple script only stack would cause it 
to fail to load... Tim, could you attach the script only stack files you 
tried to create which fail to load to a bug report so we can take a 
look?

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar  4 05:48:11 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 02:48:11 -0800
Subject: Bouncy Castle #1
In-Reply-To: <56D9631D.9040206@gmail.com>
References: <56D9631D.9040206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D967EB.5090305@fourthworld.com>

Richmond wrote:
 > I wonder why the 32 bit Linux builds of the 6 series won't
 > run on my 64 bit Xubuntu even though I have multi-arch
 > installed?

Because, despite the name, multi-arch doesn't really do the job of 
supporting multiple architectures.  I was spending a lot of time in the 
Ubuntu forums when that replaced ia32libs and I found a lot of people 
encountering issues with many packages, like Google Earth.  That 
LiveCode fails to run under multiarch as one of Google's best apps does 
I think we're in good company.

Indeed, multiarch has been the source of so much frustration I've had a 
hard time figuring out why they bothered to write it at all when 
ia32libs was working well.

The best fix I've found for this is from Neil @ LiveCode, in the forums:
<http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=20091&p=104639&hilit=64+bit+ubuntu+neil#p104639>

Run this line he suggests there and let me know if it doesn't work:

   sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-0:i386

If not, try running LC from Terminal with ldd and we'll see what else is 
needed, but for me that GTK lib took care of it.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rman at free.fr  Fri Mar  4 07:53:06 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 04:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open source, closed source, and the value of code
In-Reply-To: <56D89977.2000507@fourthworld.com>
References: <56D61D87.8060607@fourthworld.com>
	<1456873884857-4701796.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D63A15.6040600@fourthworld.com>
	<1456883896413-4701814.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D65627.4040505@fourthworld.com>
	<1456890835864-4701826.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D67BBF.6040102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<321BB011-A78F-4D1D-96CD-BF582763A9F9@appisle.net>
	<1457029845380-4701951.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56D89977.2000507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1457095986275-4702006.post@n4.nabble.com>

I shall too, for myself, just apply the rules stated directly or indirectly
by livecode. These were not, at all, as crystal clear as it seemed. 
And that is precisely why I took time to research, clarify and exchange
here. 

[ Actually, there was a last issue raised, still un-cleared : I still do not
know if the principle of a distributing a community reader app designed to
manipulate a separate data file gathering various medias that would not be
GPL compatible, is something that is "in line" or "not in line" with
livecode's policy. Any clue? ] 

Appart from that, I mean apart from me, I mean for the community, I do very
much share Mark Wilcox's point of view and think it is a good thing to raise
question and issues, for the common good of livecode/hypertalk heritage. 

To make it clear, I am not a would be potential thief, trying to make my way
at the border of the livecode GPL license to hack the license. Let's really
do away with that kind of thing, please! I won't need to consult a lawyer as
far as I am concerned. That is not the point. 

I just do point out that in the course of my research clarification and
exchanges here, I have the strong impression that the notion of "derivative
work" was wrongly understood. 

I happen do have some legal background in law since I graduated in law both
in France and in the UK and completed that with a post grad in Advanced
computer sciences (that was called "artificial intelligence at that
time..!). I have dealt with copyright & licensing matters as a publisher for
15 years. Recently I did a lot of research/writing in the patent & design
patents realm, copyright, applied arts, and derivative work in order to
protect some important innovations in the field of musical instruments. 

The notion of derivative work predates GPL. And there has been rulings.
Criterias have been set. And I just could not make "converge" in my little
head the point of view I got from livecode and these items of knowledge I
had gathered elsewere concerning the notion of derivative work. The puzzle
did not fit. 

I would not bother and take the time to say so, if I did not "love" this
precious Hypertalk heritage, and If I did not feel too (very much like Mark
Wilcox) that sticking to that discussable interpretation is something I see
as dangerous for the livecode community. 

For the one who have time to spare for that issue, I strongly suggest
reading this article I came accross : it explains very precisely in an easy
language, the impression I got something was wrong in the air. 

I fully adhere to the conclusion that in effect, sticking that expansive
notion of derivative work on everything (and in our case on stacks & their
media content) is very much reducing the freedom of authors and is not a
good move.  I'll set up an illustrative stack in my hobbyist time to show
why this is si with a very concrete "real"  self explaining example.

https://www.law.washington.edu/lta/swp/law/derivative.html  Enjoy! Robert 




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-source-closed-source-and-the-value-of-code-tp4701649p4702006.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From rman at free.fr  Fri Mar  4 07:56:29 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 04:56:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Overnight list issues
In-Reply-To: <BD058A9C-52EC-4565-A7F5-D15153BAA8E3@livecode.com>
References: <BD058A9C-52EC-4565-A7F5-D15153BAA8E3@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1457096189259-4702007.post@n4.nabble.com>

Yes i had a strange bounce back of last post I sent early morning, so I
re-posted as suggested. thanks for the hint. Robert.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Overnight-list-issues-tp4701997p4702007.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 08:35:17 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:35:17 +0200
Subject: Bouncy Castle #1
In-Reply-To: <56D967EB.5090305@fourthworld.com>
References: <56D9631D.9040206@gmail.com> <56D967EB.5090305@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56D98F15.2040701@gmail.com>

On 4.03.2016 12:48, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Richmond wrote:
> > I wonder why the 32 bit Linux builds of the 6 series won't
> > run on my 64 bit Xubuntu even though I have multi-arch
> > installed?
>
> Because, despite the name, multi-arch doesn't really do the job of 
> supporting multiple architectures.  I was spending a lot of time in 
> the Ubuntu forums when that replaced ia32libs and I found a lot of 
> people encountering issues with many packages, like Google Earth.  
> That LiveCode fails to run under multiarch as one of Google's best 
> apps does I think we're in good company.
>
> Indeed, multiarch has been the source of so much frustration I've had 
> a hard time figuring out why they bothered to write it at all when 
> ia32libs was working well.
>
> The best fix I've found for this is from Neil @ LiveCode, in the forums:
> <http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=20091&p=104639&hilit=64+bit+ubuntu+neil#p104639> 
>
>
> Run this line he suggests there and let me know if it doesn't work:
>
>   sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-0:i386

Well, well, well: look what I've been missing:

The following extra packages will be installed:
   libatk1.0-0:i386 libcairo2:i386 libdatrie1:i386 libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0:i386
   libgraphite2-3:i386 libharfbuzz0b:i386 libpango-1.0-0:i386
   libpangocairo-1.0-0:i386 libpangoft2-1.0-0:i386 libpixman-1-0:i386
   libthai0:i386 libxcb-render0:i386 libxcb-shm0:i386

That did the 'trick'.

Thank you very much indeed.

Richmond.
>
> If not, try running LC from Terminal with ldd and we'll see what else 
> is needed, but for me that GTK lib took care of it.
>




From pmbrig at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 10:00:05 2016
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:00:05 -0500
Subject: LC8 DP15 error message?
In-Reply-To: <1508D9FC-0D9A-442A-B6FA-C8C2B0200C20@earthednet.org>
References: <1508D9FC-0D9A-442A-B6FA-C8C2B0200C20@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <913F9907-FF31-4EEF-85D4-4B92AAB75794@gmail.com>

On Mar 1, 2016, at 8:07 PM, William Prothero wrote:

> 89,2654,1
> 
> 69,2654,1,graphic id 74731 of group id 69783 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/prothero/Oceanography Projects/LiveCode-RunRev Projects/PT_Explorer Projects/EarthExplorer_CurrentWkg/appStacks/datastacks/Map Display.livecode"
> 
> 676,2654,1
> 
> 241,2654,1,revIDEControlProperties
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"
> 
> 219,1788,8,revIDEControlProperties
> 
> 465,1788,8
> 
> 241,1788,1,addControlToProjectBrowser
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
> 
> 573,118,1,addControlToProjectBrowser
> 
> 253,118,1
> 
> 253,118,1
> 
> 241,113,1,ideNewControl
> 
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
> 
> 675,1733,1,ideNewControl

Here is a (slightly) less obscure translation:

? line 2654, char 1: error #69, Chunk: error in object expression ? hint: graphic id 74731 of group id 69783 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/prothero/Oceanography Projects/LiveCode-RunRev Projects/PT_Explorer Projects/EarthExplorer_CurrentWkg/appStacks/datastacks/Map Display.livecode"

? line 2654, char 1: error #241, Handler: error in statement ? hint: revIDEControlProperties

? line 0, char 0: error #353, Object Name: ? hint: stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"

? line 1788, char 8: error #219, Function: error in function handler ? hint: revIDEControlProperties

? line 1788, char 1: error #241, Handler: error in statement ? hint: addControlToProjectBrowser

? line 0, char 0: error #353, Object Name: ? hint: stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"

? line 118, char 1: error #573, Handler: can't find handler ? hint: addControlToProjectBrowser

? line 118, char 1: error #253, if-then: error in statement

? line 113, char 1: error #241, Handler: error in statement ? hint: ideNewControl

? line 0, char 0: error #353, Object Name: ? hint: stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"

? line 1733, char 1: error #675, dispatch: bad command ? hint: ideNewControl

If you're interested, here's a handler that explicates error messages a little bit:

function expandError pErr
   -- expands LC runtime error numbers, with explanatory text
   --    "explanatory' is a relative term?.
   -- probably based on a handler from someone on the use-LC list, not sure who
   -- requires sr()
   
   put the name of the target into tName
   repeat for each line e in pErr
      put item 1 of e into errNbr
      put item 2 of e into tLineNbr
      put item 3 of e into tCharNbr
      put item 4 to -1 of e into tHint
      put "?" && tName & ": line" && tLineNbr & "," && "char" && tCharNbr & ": " into tErrMsg
      put "error #" & errNbr & ", " after tErrMsg
      put sr(line errNbr of the cErrorsList of card 1 of stack "revErrorDisplay") \
            after tErrMsg
      if tHint <> empty then
         put " ? hint:" && tHint after tErrMsg
      end if
      put tErrMsg & cr after errorlist
   end repeat
   return sr(errorlist)
end expandError

function sr pStr
   -- sr = "strip returns" -- actually, strips all white space fore and aft
   return word 1 to -1 of pStr
end sr

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig





From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Mar  4 10:07:17 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:07:17 +0000
Subject: LC8 DP 15 - Lost All Selection Handles
Message-ID: <etPan.56d9a4a6.c020219.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Suddenly any object I select has not selection handles and is not hilited. Double clicking will invoke the inspector, I can see the name of the object, but it is not selected. Actually it is, because I can move it around, change colors etc.

Even after rebooting LC this behavior now persists.  Any way to get them back?

BR

From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Fri Mar  4 10:09:30 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:09:30 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <BE8CA60D-55FA-4B4F-A511-BB72E482FB76@netrin.com>
References: <mailman.3178.1457028139.24590.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<BE8CA60D-55FA-4B4F-A511-BB72E482FB76@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <8DD13772-8F5E-4382-975C-600ECE06EAD4@buffalo.edu>

Thanks Jim,

Since you aren?t having the problem I tried a couple of other things. First, I had been dragging the file to the Livecode icon in the dock, so I tried opening it through the menu as you had done but I still get a file is not a stack message. I then shut my whole system down and tried everything again with the same result. So, it?s a bit mysterious. 

Tim


> On Mar 3, 2016, at 3:22 PM, Jim Lambert <jiml at netrin.com> wrote:
> 
>> TimB wrote:
>> If I open one up in TextEdit and save it, Livecode gives me the error message: ?Unable to open stack: File is not a stack?.
> 
> Hi Tim,
> I?m not seeing that here with LC 8.0 (dp 15)
> 
> 1. Launch TextEdit
> 2. File > New
> 3. Format > Make Plain Text
> 4. type
> 
> script "test2"
> on openstack
> answer "Wow!"
> end openstack
> 
> 5. File > Save
> 6. name it
> ?test2.livecode"  Use UTF-8 encoding
> 7. File > Close
> 
> 8. Switch to LC
> 9. File > Open Stack?
> 10. Select ?test2.livecode?
> 11. Answer dialog appears with ?Wow!?
> 
> Jim Lambert




From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Fri Mar  4 10:12:15 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:12:15 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <695d23583037eeada1a6a0d1fe1e3253@livecode.com>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
	<8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
	<BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>
	<F9C6E658-D129-44D1-9DCC-DE8A64237846@buffalo.edu>
	<2B1498E0-0BE1-4085-9EF9-09831721E930@appisle.net>
	<8FA6A083-C7C9-47C1-9E44-3FDDAEC42B50@buffalo.edu>
	<695d23583037eeada1a6a0d1fe1e3253@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <F59BB0B7-80EE-4C0E-8853-7C4CC9524A90@buffalo.edu>

Thanks Mark,

I submitted the file in bug report 17067.

Tim


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 5:38 AM, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2016-03-03 20:45, Tim Bleiler wrote:
>> It probably doesn?t matter much as long as it?s made clear what
>> encodings are allowed. I would guess most users taking advantage of
>> this feature could live with that. Casual users may be confused
>> however, because most of us don?t give much thought to such details; a
>> text file is a text file. Mark?s blog post doesn?t make any
>> distinction either and implies any text file should work.
> 
> The current implementation in the engine uses the BOM to determine what the encoding is - if there is no BOM then it assumes the native encoding (e.g. MacRoman on Mac).
> 
> In terms of line endings, the engine converts all line endings to ASCII 10 (the universal LiveCode line ending). For reference these are:
>   CR LF (ascii 13 then ascii 10 - default windows line endings)
>   CR (ascii 13 - old-style Mac line endings)
>   LF (ascii 10 - unix line endings)
> 
> So, it shouldn't matter what line endings the input file has, and whether they are mixed or not.
> 
> I'm surprised lack of BOM in a simple script only stack would cause it to fail to load... Tim, could you attach the script only stack files you tried to create which fail to load to a bug report so we can take a look?
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From pmbrig at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 10:13:50 2016
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:13:50 -0500
Subject: Apple Automator
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5khgP94739-9beCE4Ag-ky9s2tT3r48j-HwQrWkzGncZ3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E781848C-810D-4A2A-94DE-81345048E30E@gmail.com>
	<CA+uh5khgP94739-9beCE4Ag-ky9s2tT3r48j-HwQrWkzGncZ3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49A17973-94D0-49C2-B0E4-9691A15780BD@gmail.com>

On Mar 2, 2016, at 5:29 AM, Kay C Lan wrote:

> The final script for your button should look like this:
> 
> on mouseUp
> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> "activate" & cr & \
> "open document file " & quote & "test.workflow" & quote & " of folder
> " & quote & "Documents" & quote & " of folder " & quote & "yourname" &
> quote & " of folder " & quote & "Users" & quote & " of startup disk" &
> cr & \
> "end tell" & cr & \
> "delay 2" & cr & \
> "tell application " & quote & "Automator" & quote & cr & \
> "execute workflow " & quote & "test.workflow" & quote & cr & \
> "end tell" into tScript
> 
> do tScript as "AppleScript"
> 
> end mouseUp

I use this as a way of constructing strings that contain quotes:


function qInString pStr, pAltChar
   -- use for creating strings that contain quotes
   --    eg, for constructing ask/answer dialogs, error messages, etc.
   -- default is to use "^" as quote placeholder, can be overridden
   -- eg,
   --    qInString("fld ^text^ of card ^apple^ of stack ^fruits^")
   -- returns:
   --    fld "text" of card "apple" of stack "fruits"
   -- shorter, and easier to proofread than
   --    put "fld" && quote & "text" & quote && "of card" && quote & "apple" \
      --        & quote && "of stack" && quote & "fruits" & quote into tStr
   --    from a handler on the Use-LC list
   
   if pAltChar = empty then put "^" into pAltChar
   replace pAltChar with quote in pStr
   return pStr
end qInString

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig




From mark at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 10:22:19 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 16:22:19 +0100
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <F59BB0B7-80EE-4C0E-8853-7C4CC9524A90@buffalo.edu>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
	<8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
	<BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>
	<F9C6E658-D129-44D1-9DCC-DE8A64237846@buffalo.edu>
	<2B1498E0-0BE1-4085-9EF9-09831721E930@appisle.net>
	<8FA6A083-C7C9-47C1-9E44-3FDDAEC42B50@buffalo.edu>
	<695d23583037eeada1a6a0d1fe1e3253@livecode.com>
	<F59BB0B7-80EE-4C0E-8853-7C4CC9524A90@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <04d404d99e6dece9da23239f1a65ed14@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-04 16:12, Tim Bleiler wrote:
> Thanks Mark,
> 
> I submitted the file in bug report 17067.
> 
> Tim

Okay - so - the problem with that file is that your text editor has 
decided to be nice and convert normal double-quote " to appropriate 
paired quotes. Your file has:

     script ?MyTest?

Rather than

     script "MyTest"

You also have paired quotes around the string in the put too... You 
might want to turn off this 'cleverness' of your preferred text editor 
when writing script-only stacks!

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 10:44:44 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 17:44:44 +0200
Subject: LC8 DP 15 - Lost All Selection Handles
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d9a4a6.c020219.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d9a4a6.c020219.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56D9AD6C.7020303@gmail.com>

Personally I'd just save your stack in '7' format and get on with things 
in version 7.

Perhaps not the best idea to do 'serious' work with a Developer Preview 
- sorry.

Richmond.

On 4.03.2016 17:07, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> Suddenly any object I select has not selection handles and is not hilited. Double clicking will invoke the inspector, I can see the name of the object, but it is not selected. Actually it is, because I can move it around, change colors etc.
>
> Even after rebooting LC this behavior now persists.  Any way to get them back?
>
> BR
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthednet.org  Fri Mar  4 10:46:25 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 07:46:25 -0800
Subject: LC8 DP15 error message?
In-Reply-To: <913F9907-FF31-4EEF-85D4-4B92AAB75794@gmail.com>
References: <1508D9FC-0D9A-442A-B6FA-C8C2B0200C20@earthednet.org>
	<913F9907-FF31-4EEF-85D4-4B92AAB75794@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D0594BC-9A9B-4847-8E4A-07C3525C8F7B@earthednet.org>

Thanks, Peter,
I'm planning on implementing code that will email me notifications, with some error source info. Will this kind of error information be available in my app?

My apps get pretty complicated and I want to know when users encounter bugs in my software. I know there is a flag that can be set in standalones, to get error reports emailed to me, but many of the computers that students use don't have email set up, so I need to send it from my server.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 4, 2016, at 7:00 AM, "Peter M. Brigham" <pmbrig at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2016, at 8:07 PM, William Prothero wrote:
>> 
>> 89,2654,1
>> 
>> 69,2654,1,graphic id 74731 of group id 69783 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/prothero/Oceanography Projects/LiveCode-RunRev Projects/PT_Explorer Projects/EarthExplorer_CurrentWkg/appStacks/datastacks/Map Display.livecode"
>> 
>> 676,2654,1
>> 
>> 241,2654,1,revIDEControlProperties
>> 
>> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"
>> 
>> 219,1788,8,revIDEControlProperties
>> 
>> 465,1788,8
>> 
>> 241,1788,1,addControlToProjectBrowser
>> 
>> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
>> 
>> 573,118,1,addControlToProjectBrowser
>> 
>> 253,118,1
>> 
>> 253,118,1
>> 
>> 241,113,1,ideNewControl
>> 
>> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
>> 
>> 675,1733,1,ideNewControl
> 
> Here is a (slightly) less obscure translation:
> 
> ? line 2654, char 1: error #69, Chunk: error in object expression ? hint: graphic id 74731 of group id 69783 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/prothero/Oceanography Projects/LiveCode-RunRev Projects/PT_Explorer Projects/EarthExplorer_CurrentWkg/appStacks/datastacks/Map Display.livecode"
> 
> ? line 2654, char 1: error #241, Handler: error in statement ? hint: revIDEControlProperties
> 
> ? line 0, char 0: error #353, Object Name: ? hint: stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"
> 
> ? line 1788, char 8: error #219, Function: error in function handler ? hint: revIDEControlProperties
> 
> ? line 1788, char 1: error #241, Handler: error in statement ? hint: addControlToProjectBrowser
> 
> ? line 0, char 0: error #353, Object Name: ? hint: stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
> 
> ? line 118, char 1: error #573, Handler: can't find handler ? hint: addControlToProjectBrowser
> 
> ? line 118, char 1: error #253, if-then: error in statement
> 
> ? line 113, char 1: error #241, Handler: error in statement ? hint: ideNewControl
> 
> ? line 0, char 0: error #353, Object Name: ? hint: stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/project browser/revprojectbrowserbehavior.livecodescript"
> 
> ? line 1733, char 1: error #675, dispatch: bad command ? hint: ideNewControl
> 
> If you're interested, here's a handler that explicates error messages a little bit:
> 
> function expandError pErr
>   -- expands LC runtime error numbers, with explanatory text
>   --    "explanatory' is a relative term?.
>   -- probably based on a handler from someone on the use-LC list, not sure who
>   -- requires sr()
> 
>   put the name of the target into tName
>   repeat for each line e in pErr
>      put item 1 of e into errNbr
>      put item 2 of e into tLineNbr
>      put item 3 of e into tCharNbr
>      put item 4 to -1 of e into tHint
>      put "?" && tName & ": line" && tLineNbr & "," && "char" && tCharNbr & ": " into tErrMsg
>      put "error #" & errNbr & ", " after tErrMsg
>      put sr(line errNbr of the cErrorsList of card 1 of stack "revErrorDisplay") \
>            after tErrMsg
>      if tHint <> empty then
>         put " ? hint:" && tHint after tErrMsg
>      end if
>      put tErrMsg & cr after errorlist
>   end repeat
>   return sr(errorlist)
> end expandError
> 
> function sr pStr
>   -- sr = "strip returns" -- actually, strips all white space fore and aft
>   return word 1 to -1 of pStr
> end sr
> 
> -- Peter
> 
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmbrig at gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bleiler at buffalo.edu  Fri Mar  4 10:50:31 2016
From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Tim Bleiler)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:50:31 -0500
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <04d404d99e6dece9da23239f1a65ed14@livecode.com>
References: <2DE49444-41BA-4E6B-90D8-F3C766701F0E@buffalo.edu>
	<56D884BA.2040007@fourthworld.com>
	<8F2B427D-F919-4687-9A7B-079C0D423560@buffalo.edu>
	<BC104514-8EC1-4DCB-966A-7BB7E8F6156E@me.com>
	<F9C6E658-D129-44D1-9DCC-DE8A64237846@buffalo.edu>
	<2B1498E0-0BE1-4085-9EF9-09831721E930@appisle.net>
	<8FA6A083-C7C9-47C1-9E44-3FDDAEC42B50@buffalo.edu>
	<695d23583037eeada1a6a0d1fe1e3253@livecode.com>
	<F59BB0B7-80EE-4C0E-8853-7C4CC9524A90@buffalo.edu>
	<04d404d99e6dece9da23239f1a65ed14@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <12DAB311-9732-4670-97F8-FAA86DE4CF24@buffalo.edu>

Thanks Mark!!

Sorry to take up everyone?s time on that, but good to know I guess.

Tim


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2016-03-04 16:12, Tim Bleiler wrote:
>> Thanks Mark,
>> I submitted the file in bug report 17067.
>> Tim
> 
> Okay - so - the problem with that file is that your text editor has decided to be nice and convert normal double-quote " to appropriate paired quotes. Your file has:
> 
>    script ?MyTest?
> 
> Rather than
> 
>    script "MyTest"
> 
> You also have paired quotes around the string in the put too... You might want to turn off this 'cleverness' of your preferred text editor when writing script-only stacks!
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark at livecode.com  Fri Mar  4 11:55:44 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 17:55:44 +0100
Subject: LC8 DP 15 - Lost All Selection Handles
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56d9a4a6.c020219.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56d9a4a6.c020219.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <f0977741a211a13131a925430e560eb2@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-04 16:07, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> Suddenly any object I select has not selection handles and is not
> hilited. Double clicking will invoke the inspector, I can see the name
> of the object, but it is not selected. Actually it is, because I can
> move it around, change colors etc.
> 
> Even after rebooting LC this behavior now persists.  Any way to get 
> them back?

I'm guessing you have 'acceleratedRendering' turned on - 
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16991

This will be fixed in dp-16.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Mar  4 12:37:00 2016
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 17:37:00 +0000
Subject: LC8 DP 15 - Lost All Selection Handles
In-Reply-To: <f0977741a211a13131a925430e560eb2@livecode.com>
References: <etPan.56d9a4a6.c020219.3654@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<f0977741a211a13131a925430e560eb2@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <446488C0-82C5-46FB-A88A-2AAFE4444C9F@byu.edu>


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2016-03-04 16:07, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>> Suddenly any object I select has not selection handles and is not
>> hilited. Double clicking will invoke the inspector, I can see the name
>> of the object, but it is not selected. Actually it is, because I can
>> move it around, change colors etc.
>> Even after rebooting LC this behavior now persists.  Any way to get them back?
> 
> I'm guessing you have 'acceleratedRendering' turned on - http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16991
> 
> This will be fixed in dp-16.

Indeed, things like this are part of the thrill of living on the bleeding edge. :) My second semester class in LiveCode programming focuses on building mobile apps. Because of all the great new features, primarily mobile-themed widgets, in LC 8 I took the plunge and have been using LC 8 for my class this semester. I started with DP12 and have kept updating my labs because each new release fixes important bugs. Overall it?s been reasonably smooth, with just a few irritants. I was really exited when DP15 came out and I installed it in my lab immediately. Unfortunately for me, it was the day before I discussed how to improve graphics performance in mobile apps. So I told them all about ?set the acceleratedRendering of this stack to true?. It was in class in front of my students that I suddenly discovered that I couldn?t select any objects!

An hour or so of fiddling and testing after class and I discovered the bug was tied to the acceleratedRendering. I submitted the bug report and in less than 12 hours the team had fixed the bug and submitted the pull request. (This kind of rapid turnaround has been typical of my experience recently with v. 8 bugs.)

So the moral of the story folks, is don?t fear the v. 8 DPs! Sure there?s been a little pain, but no fatal, data-destroying problems. And it has helped move v. 8 along a little more briskly! 

Regards,

Devin


Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From cowhead at mac.com  Fri Mar  4 15:08:45 2016
From: cowhead at mac.com (Mark Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2016 05:08:45 +0900
Subject: Use MouseLine() and still edit the same field?
Message-ID: <B8AEED67-966F-4458-95B2-AE0213506266@mac.com>

(Sorry Heather!  I?m sending this message again from the ?proper? account..)

I?m not sure how long it has been around, but I have just discovered the ?mousewhithin? message combined with the mouseline() function? Awesome!  So, for those of you who don?t know, the ?mousewithin? message is sent to a field periodically (5 times a second?) whenever the mouse is inside that field. 

Then, the mouseline function returns whatever line of that field the mouse is currently hovering over.  I am currently using this to warn folks if they have too many characters per line.  And that works fine.

But to make it more intuitive, I want to somehow hilite or indicate the line that the mouse is over in the field, without disturbing the ability to edit that field (copy, paste, type stuff) with ease.  

I have tried a few different ways of hiliting the line of the field (selecting it, changing the color of the text of it, etc) but any sort of repeat or recursive structure does not work, as the ?mousewithin? message is simply sent far too often for any ?repeat? or recursion to work.

Does anyone have any other ideas for highlighting a line in a field that might work under these conditions?

Thanks!

Markk




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 15:18:21 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 22:18:21 +0200
Subject: palette woes
Message-ID: <56D9ED8D.8020507@gmail.com>

What am I doing wrong?

Why does this NOT palettise my stack:

on preOpenStack
    palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
end preOpenStack

nor this:

on openStack
    palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
end openStack

Richmond.



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Mar  4 15:35:09 2016
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:35:09 +0000
Subject: Use MouseLine() and still edit the same field?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEED67-966F-4458-95B2-AE0213506266@mac.com>
References: <B8AEED67-966F-4458-95B2-AE0213506266@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0343D811-41E7-43A3-B0BB-BE04B0DB0AEF@byu.edu>


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 1:08 PM, Mark Mitchell <cowhead at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> (Sorry Heather!  I?m sending this message again from the ?proper? account..)
> 
> I?m not sure how long it has been around, but I have just discovered the ?mousewhithin? message combined with the mouseline() function? Awesome!  So, for those of you who don?t know, the ?mousewithin? message is sent to a field periodically (5 times a second?) whenever the mouse is inside that field. 
> 
> Then, the mouseline function returns whatever line of that field the mouse is currently hovering over.  I am currently using this to warn folks if they have too many characters per line.  And that works fine.
> 
> But to make it more intuitive, I want to somehow hilite or indicate the line that the mouse is over in the field, without disturbing the ability to edit that field (copy, paste, type stuff) with ease.  
> 
> I have tried a few different ways of hiliting the line of the field (selecting it, changing the color of the text of it, etc) but any sort of repeat or recursive structure does not work, as the ?mousewithin? message is simply sent far too often for any ?repeat? or recursion to work.
> 
> Does anyone have any other ideas for highlighting a line in a field that might work under these conditions?

Mark,

Have you tried setting the backgroundColor of the line, something like this:

local sCurrLine

on mouseWithin
    put the mouseline into tThisLine
    if tThisLine <> sCurrLine then
        set the backgroundColor of line 1 to -1 of me to empty
        set the backgroundColor of tThisLine to (220,220,250)
        put tThisLine into sCurrLine
    end if
end mouseWithin

on mouseLeave
    set the backgroundColor of line 1 to -1 of me to empty
end mouseLeave

It seemed to work okay here on LC 7.1.2.

Devin

Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Mar  4 15:40:58 2016
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:40:58 +0000
Subject: Use MouseLine() and still edit the same field?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEED67-966F-4458-95B2-AE0213506266@mac.com>
References: <B8AEED67-966F-4458-95B2-AE0213506266@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D3003CF1.1EA44%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

Hi Mark - you probably want to use a mouseMove handler rather than
mouseWithin. Try starting off with something simple like this...

on mouseMove
    put word 2 of the mouseLine into n
    set the textColor of line 1 to -1 of me to empty
    set the textColor of line n of me to blue
end mouseMove

HTH,

Terry...



On 5/03/2016 7:08 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Mitchell"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of cowhead at mac.com> wrote:

>(Sorry Heather!  I?m sending this message again from the ?proper?
>account..)
>
>I?m not sure how long it has been around, but I have just discovered the
>?mousewhithin? message combined with the mouseline() function? Awesome!
>So, for those of you who don?t know, the ?mousewithin? message is sent to
>a field periodically (5 times a second?) whenever the mouse is inside
>that field. 
>
>Then, the mouseline function returns whatever line of that field the
>mouse is currently hovering over.  I am currently using this to warn
>folks if they have too many characters per line.  And that works fine.
>
>But to make it more intuitive, I want to somehow hilite or indicate the
>line that the mouse is over in the field, without disturbing the ability
>to edit that field (copy, paste, type stuff) with ease.
>
>I have tried a few different ways of hiliting the line of the field
>(selecting it, changing the color of the text of it, etc) but any sort of
>repeat or recursive structure does not work, as the ?mousewithin? message
>is simply sent far too often for any ?repeat? or recursion to work.
>
>Does anyone have any other ideas for highlighting a line in a field that
>might work under these conditions?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Markk
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Mar  4 15:44:35 2016
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:44:35 +0000
Subject: palette woes
In-Reply-To: <56D9ED8D.8020507@gmail.com>
References: <56D9ED8D.8020507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D3003E88.1EA4F%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

Try ?palette me? or ?set the style of me to palette? - these both work for
me.

Terry...

On 5/03/2016 7:18 am, "use-livecode on behalf of RM"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:

>What am I doing wrong?
>
>Why does this NOT palettise my stack:
>
>on preOpenStack
>    palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
>end preOpenStack
>
>nor this:
>
>on openStack
>    palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
>end openStack
>
>Richmond.
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Mar  4 16:20:52 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:20:52 -0600
Subject: palette woes
In-Reply-To: <56D9ED8D.8020507@gmail.com>
References: <56D9ED8D.8020507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D9FC34.8060104@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/4/2016 2:18 PM, RM wrote:
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Why does this NOT palettise my stack:
>
> on preOpenStack
>     palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
> end preOpenStack
>
> nor this:
>
> on openStack
>     palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
> end openStack

They work here. Try the command later in the opening sequence, or send 
it in a few milliseconds.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 16:22:03 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 13:22:03 -0800
Subject: Use MouseLine() and still edit the same field?
In-Reply-To: <D3003CF1.1EA44%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <B8AEED67-966F-4458-95B2-AE0213506266@mac.com>
	<D3003CF1.1EA44%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CA+S82Dq4ksRD7tsRjykXV34iQ4sdN01HbrGgh9Nqf6ZGJ5=xOw@mail.gmail.com>

Be careful using mouseMove. It gets sent along with messages like mouseDown
regardless of whether or not the mouse is moving. So make sure the logic in
it is idempotent (produces the same result when called multiple times).

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Terry Judd <terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au>
wrote:

> Hi Mark - you probably want to use a mouseMove handler rather than
> mouseWithin. Try starting off with something simple like this...
>
> on mouseMove
>     put word 2 of the mouseLine into n
>     set the textColor of line 1 to -1 of me to empty
>     set the textColor of line n of me to blue
> end mouseMove
>
> HTH,
>
> Terry...
>
>
>
> On 5/03/2016 7:08 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Mitchell"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of cowhead at mac.com>
> wrote:
>
> >(Sorry Heather!  I?m sending this message again from the ?proper?
> >account..)
> >
> >I?m not sure how long it has been around, but I have just discovered the
> >?mousewhithin? message combined with the mouseline() function? Awesome!
> >So, for those of you who don?t know, the ?mousewithin? message is sent to
> >a field periodically (5 times a second?) whenever the mouse is inside
> >that field.
> >
> >Then, the mouseline function returns whatever line of that field the
> >mouse is currently hovering over.  I am currently using this to warn
> >folks if they have too many characters per line.  And that works fine.
> >
> >But to make it more intuitive, I want to somehow hilite or indicate the
> >line that the mouse is over in the field, without disturbing the ability
> >to edit that field (copy, paste, type stuff) with ease.
> >
> >I have tried a few different ways of hiliting the line of the field
> >(selecting it, changing the color of the text of it, etc) but any sort of
> >repeat or recursive structure does not work, as the ?mousewithin? message
> >is simply sent far too often for any ?repeat? or recursion to work.
> >
> >Does anyone have any other ideas for highlighting a line in a field that
> >might work under these conditions?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Markk
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-livecode mailing list
> >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >subscription preferences:
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 16:35:24 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 16:35:24 -0500
Subject: HTML5 teaser
Message-ID: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>

I?ve been tasked with a problem to solve, and I think I can use any tool to do it. LiveCode could be a good choice. Here?s what?s needed:

A PDF is online somewhere. A logged in user asks for it, and the server encrypts it before sending over, using some sort of key that was in the query. On receiving the data, the client side would have to unencrypted it, and show it as the original PDF in a browser.

I feel sure there are some difficulties in there, such as whether Javascript can write a file to the user?s hard drive, and then show it in a browser. In LiveCode terms, one solution would be to send it as encrypted image data, and then set the imagedata of an image to the unencrypted version (if setting imagedata is allowed in the HTML5 export from LiveCode).

Do you all see other difficulties, or maybe simple solutions to the problem? 


From pmbrig at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 17:54:40 2016
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 17:54:40 -0500
Subject: LC8DP15 feedback-IDE Issues
In-Reply-To: <56D890B9.9060705@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9f582127db16b9f69fedeacbc5a935ea@livecode.com>
	<56D70A4F.5040604@fourthworld.com>
	<ddb63f8612a741058f059034bb7f792a@livecode.com>
	<56D71F36.1010501@ahsoftware.net> <56D7218B.9090108@gmail.com>
	<56D75D2F.8080108@livecode.com>
	<CAAT6EXMDX1Z-rghmzEZ6KnV8D8BEiNvGuP36KZYtNre_y5vABQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D761E4.4070704@livecode.com> <56D83DF0.7030906@gmail.com>
	<CADCoycP2WGGenq8bU0cMfZZXRF3tPkTLyAaXYyUkgqgJQvTkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56D890B9.9060705@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6F5EFEE7-2FCB-42D2-B850-726055AFFE9F@gmail.com>

On Mar 3, 2016, at 2:30 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 3/3/2016 8:22 AM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>> Slightly off-the-subject, but for usability, command-9 and command-0 are a
>> PITA to reach for me, as a right-hander, when my right is usually on the
>> trackpad or mouse.
> 
> I changed this years ago in a custom frontscript:
> 
> on tabKey
>  if controlkey() = "down" then
>    if the tool = "pointer tool"
>    then choose browse tool
>    else choose pointer tool
>  else pass tabKey
> end tabKey
> 
> This toggles the browse and edit tools with Control-Tab. If any other tool is selected, it will toggle the tool to Edit.

I did the exact same thing, only using control-` [backquote].

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 17:57:50 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 00:57:50 +0200
Subject: palette woes
In-Reply-To: <56D9FC34.8060104@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <56D9ED8D.8020507@gmail.com> <56D9FC34.8060104@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56DA12EE.5030000@gmail.com>



On 4.03.2016 23:20, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/4/2016 2:18 PM, RM wrote:
>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Why does this NOT palettise my stack:
>>
>> on preOpenStack
>>     palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
>> end preOpenStack
>>
>> nor this:
>>
>> on openStack
>>     palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
>> end openStack
>
> They work here. Try the command later in the opening sequence, or send 
> it in a few milliseconds.
>

Possibly this is a problem to do with Linux?

R.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 17:59:52 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 00:59:52 +0200
Subject: palette woes
In-Reply-To: <D3003E88.1EA4F%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <56D9ED8D.8020507@gmail.com> <D3003E88.1EA4F%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <56DA1368.9000005@gmail.com>

Smashing!  "set the style of me to palette" did it, on Linux.

Thank you so much.

Richmond.

On 4.03.2016 22:44, Terry Judd wrote:
> Try ?palette me? or ?set the style of me to palette? - these both work for
> me.
>
> Terry...
>
> On 5/03/2016 7:18 am, "use-livecode on behalf of RM"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Why does this NOT palettise my stack:
>>
>> on preOpenStack
>>     palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
>> end preOpenStack
>>
>> nor this:
>>
>> on openStack
>>     palette stack "ARGEEBEE"
>> end openStack
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From monte at appisle.net  Fri Mar  4 18:48:29 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 10:48:29 +1100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FEB2B4A0-A281-456E-9155-C0001BB593B3@appisle.net>

I wouldn't expect imageData to be an issue in HTML5 but encryption seems like a stretch at this stage. Does it need to be in a browser?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Mar 2016, at 8:35 AM, Colin Holgate <colinholgate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I?ve been tasked with a problem to solve, and I think I can use any tool to do it. LiveCode could be a good choice. Here?s what?s needed:
> 
> A PDF is online somewhere. A logged in user asks for it, and the server encrypts it before sending over, using some sort of key that was in the query. On receiving the data, the client side would have to unencrypted it, and show it as the original PDF in a browser.
> 
> I feel sure there are some difficulties in there, such as whether Javascript can write a file to the user?s hard drive, and then show it in a browser. In LiveCode terms, one solution would be to send it as encrypted image data, and then set the imagedata of an image to the unencrypted version (if setting imagedata is allowed in the HTML5 export from LiveCode).
> 
> Do you all see other difficulties, or maybe simple solutions to the problem? 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 18:53:12 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 18:53:12 -0500
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <FEB2B4A0-A281-456E-9155-C0001BB593B3@appisle.net>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<FEB2B4A0-A281-456E-9155-C0001BB593B3@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <7E6FF0EC-0E02-44A4-A44B-19A0BE5AD1E3@gmail.com>

Yes. There are other options, but I was hoping that LiveCode could do it in an easier way. At worse, the encryption could be as simple as Base64.


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't expect imageData to be an issue in HTML5 but encryption seems like a stretch at this stage. Does it need to be in a browser?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 5 Mar 2016, at 8:35 AM, Colin Holgate <colinholgate at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I?ve been tasked with a problem to solve, and I think I can use any tool to do it. LiveCode could be a good choice. Here?s what?s needed:
>> 
>> A PDF is online somewhere. A logged in user asks for it, and the server encrypts it before sending over, using some sort of key that was in the query. On receiving the data, the client side would have to unencrypted it, and show it as the original PDF in a browser.
>> 
>> I feel sure there are some difficulties in there, such as whether Javascript can write a file to the user?s hard drive, and then show it in a browser. In LiveCode terms, one solution would be to send it as encrypted image data, and then set the imagedata of an image to the unencrypted version (if setting imagedata is allowed in the HTML5 export from LiveCode).
>> 
>> Do you all see other difficulties, or maybe simple solutions to the problem? 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar  4 19:07:27 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 01:07:27 +0100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
Message-ID: <F81D9F8B-C88E-4448-B41F-A2CB366BB325@livecode.org>

Currently the ask dialog is the **only** way to communicate
with a HTML5 standalone.
You simply have to manage, that your imagedata can pass the
dialog (no CR). And be aware that everybody can read your
script, but that shouldn't matter. The rest works "as usual".
The copy/paste via "ask" mechanism works (there are examples
to try).

> Colin H. wrote:
> I?ve been tasked with a problem to solve, and I think I can 
> use any tool to do it. LiveCode could be a good choice. 
> Here?s what?s needed:
> A PDF is online somewhere. A logged in user asks for it, 
> and the server encrypts it before sending over, using some 
> sort of key that was in the query. On receiving the data, 
> the client side would have to unencrypted it, and show it 
> as the original PDF in a browser.
> I feel sure there are some difficulties in there, such as
> whether Javascript can write a file to the user?s hard 
> drive, and then show it in a browser. In LiveCode terms, 
> one solution would be to send it as encrypted image data, 
> and then set the imagedata of an image to the unencrypted 
> version (if setting imagedata is allowed in the HTML5 
> export from LiveCode).






From colinholgate at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 19:13:54 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 19:13:54 -0500
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <F81D9F8B-C88E-4448-B41F-A2CB366BB325@livecode.org>
References: <F81D9F8B-C88E-4448-B41F-A2CB366BB325@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <0D16996B-A77F-470E-9170-492583039734@gmail.com>

Hopefully the exception key would help. Only the user would know how to unencrypt the image.


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 7:07 PM, [-hh] <hh at livecode.org> wrote:
> 
> Currently the ask dialog is the **only** way to communicate
> with a HTML5 standalone.
> You simply have to manage, that your imagedata can pass the
> dialog (no CR). And be aware that everybody can read your
> script, but that shouldn't matter. The rest works "as usual".
> The copy/paste via "ask" mechanism works (there are examples
> to try).
> 
>> Colin H. wrote:
>> I?ve been tasked with a problem to solve, and I think I can 
>> use any tool to do it. LiveCode could be a good choice. 
>> Here?s what?s needed:
>> A PDF is online somewhere. A logged in user asks for it, 
>> and the server encrypts it before sending over, using some 
>> sort of key that was in the query. On receiving the data, 
>> the client side would have to unencrypted it, and show it 
>> as the original PDF in a browser.
>> I feel sure there are some difficulties in there, such as
>> whether Javascript can write a file to the user?s hard 
>> drive, and then show it in a browser. In LiveCode terms, 
>> one solution would be to send it as encrypted image data, 
>> and then set the imagedata of an image to the unencrypted 
>> version (if setting imagedata is allowed in the HTML5 
>> export from LiveCode).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar  4 19:15:07 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 01:15:07 +0100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
Message-ID: <1CAE7768-73C2-41F8-B64E-9B5582ACB736@livecode.org>

Forgot to add the link where you can try which functions work (or not) in dp-15 HTML5 standalones:

Because on-rev is moving tonight, you could use this one:
http://hyperhh.org/html5/TerminalZero-8.0.0-dp-15X.html


From lyn.teyla at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 19:57:37 2016
From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 01:57:37 +0100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>

Colin Holgate wrote:

> A PDF is online somewhere. A logged in user asks for it, and the server encrypts it before sending over, using some sort of key that was in the query. On receiving the data, the client side would have to unencrypted it, and show it as the original PDF in a browser.

This only involves LiveCode Server and doesn?t require LiveCode HTML5, JavaScript, sending any keys in the query, or writing any PDF files to the user?s hard drive.

Here?s a general outline of the implementation:

- Store the PDF on the server, somewhere outside the web folder so it can?t be loaded directly by web visitors.

- Get the user to access the system via a HTTPS connection, which is needed for a secure login mechanism anyway.

- The HTTPS connection does all of the encrypting and decrypting so you don?t have to code it yourself.

- The user logs in via your LiveCode Server app, which handles the usual user authentication stuff using cookies and sessions.

- When the logged in user asks for the PDF file, have your LiveCode Server app read from the PDF file and write it out to the web browser (as with any other web content), and with the appropriate Content-Type HTTP header.

- Since you?re having all data transmitted over a HTTPS connection, the user?s login details as well as the PDF file are encrypted whilst in transit.

- Since your LiveCode Server app is the one deciding whether or not to display the PDF (and any other data) based on whether the user is signed in, access can be effectively limited to that user.

Lyn





From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Mar  4 19:59:26 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 00:59:26 +0000
Subject: Fw: Re: LC8 DP 15 - Lost All Selection Handles
Message-ID: <etPan.56da2f6d.7d034601.4d4d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

@Mark: confirmed... I'm getting selections OK *until* I open on particular stack.. which turns on acceleratedRendering...*then* selection disappears.

@Devin  re: LC 8.. aum-yes... love it... big step forward, enjoying participating by hitting head on walls and sending descriptions of bruises -- hehe, just kidding,

BR



On March 4, 2016 at 6:55:57 AM, Mark Waddingham (mark at livecode.com<mailto:mark at livecode.com>) wrote:

On 2016-03-04 16:07, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> Suddenly any object I select has not selection handles and is not
> hilited. Double clicking will invoke the inspector, I can see the name
> of the object, but it is not selected. Actually it is, because I can
> move it around, change colors etc.
>
> Even after rebooting LC this behavior now persists. Any way to get
> them back?

I'm guessing you have 'acceleratedRendering' turned on -
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16991

This will be fixed in dp-16.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From colinholgate at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 21:20:51 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 21:20:51 -0500
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Is LiveCode required in what you say?

Does the PDF travel securely?


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Lyn Teyla <lyn.teyla at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Colin Holgate wrote:
> 
>> A PDF is online somewhere. A logged in user asks for it, and the server encrypts it before sending over, using some sort of key that was in the query. On receiving the data, the client side would have to unencrypted it, and show it as the original PDF in a browser.
> 
> This only involves LiveCode Server and doesn?t require LiveCode HTML5, JavaScript, sending any keys in the query, or writing any PDF files to the user?s hard drive.
> 
> Here?s a general outline of the implementation:
> 
> - Store the PDF on the server, somewhere outside the web folder so it can?t be loaded directly by web visitors.
> 
> - Get the user to access the system via a HTTPS connection, which is needed for a secure login mechanism anyway.
> 
> - The HTTPS connection does all of the encrypting and decrypting so you don?t have to code it yourself.
> 
> - The user logs in via your LiveCode Server app, which handles the usual user authentication stuff using cookies and sessions.
> 
> - When the logged in user asks for the PDF file, have your LiveCode Server app read from the PDF file and write it out to the web browser (as with any other web content), and with the appropriate Content-Type HTTP header.
> 
> - Since you?re having all data transmitted over a HTTPS connection, the user?s login details as well as the PDF file are encrypted whilst in transit.
> 
> - Since your LiveCode Server app is the one deciding whether or not to display the PDF (and any other data) based on whether the user is signed in, access can be effectively limited to that user.
> 
> Lyn
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From lyn.teyla at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 21:38:34 2016
From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 03:38:34 +0100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
	<73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <627DE043-6725-44D4-AA8B-B4E89761C36F@gmail.com>

Colin Holgate wrote:

> Is LiveCode required in what you say?

You can use LiveCode Server (or any other server-side language) to perform those tasks.

> Does the PDF travel securely?

Using a HTTPS connection ensures that the PDF file is transmitted securely.

Lyn





From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar  4 22:18:12 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 04:18:12 +0100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
Message-ID: <9F067C8E-5E86-4F91-92E4-C2852743D7A0@livecode.org>

> Colin H. wrote:
> A PDF is online somewhere...

Of course, if you don't insist on HTML5 (despite the subject)
you could also think about simpler solutions available in php
which is much faster than LC server.
Others here (Peter H.?) will have several ready made solutions
for that.



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 22:23:32 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 22:23:32 -0500
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <9F067C8E-5E86-4F91-92E4-C2852743D7A0@livecode.org>
References: <9F067C8E-5E86-4F91-92E4-C2852743D7A0@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <701B3E39-53C3-4500-9728-D3D4B8E56A9C@gmail.com>

I found out more info, the local copy of the PDF needs to be encrypted too. This isn?t what it is, but imagine it?s top-secret, that even other users of your computer shouldn?t see, I need to download the file and just let you see it, with some sort of password entry to unlock it.


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 10:18 PM, [-hh] <hh at livecode.org> wrote:
> 
>> Colin H. wrote:
>> A PDF is online somewhere...
> 
> Of course, if you don't insist on HTML5 (despite the subject)
> you could also think about simpler solutions available in php
> which is much faster than LC server.
> Others here (Peter H.?) will have several ready made solutions
> for that.




From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Fri Mar  4 22:55:04 2016
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 19:55:04 -0800
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <701B3E39-53C3-4500-9728-D3D4B8E56A9C@gmail.com>
References: <9F067C8E-5E86-4F91-92E4-C2852743D7A0@livecode.org>
	<701B3E39-53C3-4500-9728-D3D4B8E56A9C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfHJDcED2aDO6QOCc-3FdkRDypqsj3s+5kpHxXFeMeLhKog@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Colin Holgate <colinholgate at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I found out more info, the local copy of the PDF needs to be encrypted
> too. This isn?t what it is, but imagine it?s top-secret, that even other
> users of your computer shouldn?t see, I need to download the file and just
> let you see it, with some sort of password entry to unlock it.
>
then you can't use Adobe Acrobat to do the encryption before placing on the
server ?  Then Adobe Reader can handle the decryption and password

what am I missing ?

Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Mar  4 23:00:53 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:00:53 -0800
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <627DE043-6725-44D4-AA8B-B4E89761C36F@gmail.com>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
	<73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>
	<627DE043-6725-44D4-AA8B-B4E89761C36F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DA59F5.3030200@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/04/2016 06:38 PM, Lyn Teyla wrote:

> Using a HTTPS connection ensures that the PDF file is transmitted securely.

Uh, sorry, no.
HTTPS by itself will (mostly) guarantee that you are connected to the 
server you think you're connecting to. There's no encryption unless you 
enforce it yourself. The connection itself isn't in cleartext after the 
initial handshake, so someone listening in on the network traffic won't 
be able to grab and view the pdf, but unless you're requiring a login 
and encrypting the file, there's nothing to stop anyone from going to 
the https url and picking up a copy of the file.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 23:08:31 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 23:08:31 -0500
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <CAFmQfHJDcED2aDO6QOCc-3FdkRDypqsj3s+5kpHxXFeMeLhKog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9F067C8E-5E86-4F91-92E4-C2852743D7A0@livecode.org>
	<701B3E39-53C3-4500-9728-D3D4B8E56A9C@gmail.com>
	<CAFmQfHJDcED2aDO6QOCc-3FdkRDypqsj3s+5kpHxXFeMeLhKog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <259A1A5B-FA6C-4CC7-A555-342885052057@gmail.com>

I think we weren?t planning on using Acrobat at all. It would be an unencrypted PDF that is encrypted on a server, saved locally with the same encryption, and only viewable by the logged in user as a local file,


> On Mar 4, 2016, at 10:55 PM, stephen barncard <stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Colin Holgate <colinholgate at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I found out more info, the local copy of the PDF needs to be encrypted
>> too. This isn?t what it is, but imagine it?s top-secret, that even other
>> users of your computer shouldn?t see, I need to download the file and just
>> let you see it, with some sort of password entry to unlock it.
>> 
> then you can't use Adobe Acrobat to do the encryption before placing on the
> server ?  Then Adobe Reader can handle the decryption and password
> 
> what am I missing ?
> 
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar  4 23:30:33 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 05:30:33 +0100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
Message-ID: <22DB4190-0048-4801-91FA-168F95E0B1E7@livecode.org>

Just as an idea:
A few times I used this one (it's basically AES-128).
There are also examples that basically worked for me.

So: Not really an experience but the few times it worked.
https://github.com/defuse/php-encryption



From lyn.teyla at gmail.com  Sat Mar  5 01:43:39 2016
From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 07:43:39 +0100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <56DA59F5.3030200@ahsoftware.net>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
	<73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>
	<627DE043-6725-44D4-AA8B-B4E89761C36F@gmail.com>
	<56DA59F5.3030200@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <7E48136A-71A8-4F6A-BD9C-A086B0772D54@gmail.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

> On 03/04/2016 06:38 PM, Lyn Teyla wrote:
> 
>> Using a HTTPS connection ensures that the PDF file is transmitted securely.
> 
> Uh, sorry, no.
> HTTPS by itself will (mostly) guarantee that you are connected to the server you think you're connecting to. There's no encryption unless you enforce it yourself. The connection itself isn't in cleartext after the initial handshake, so someone listening in on the network traffic won't be able to grab and view the pdf, but unless you're requiring a login and encrypting the file, there's nothing to stop anyone from going to the https url and picking up a copy of the file.


The whole point of HTTPS is _not_ just to authenticate the website, but also to encrypt the data in transit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTPS

That?s precisely why online banking and ecommerce websites use HTTPS ? to encrypt credit card and other important data during transmission. The same would apply to the PDF file being transmitted via HTTPS.

The OP?s question being answered here was "Does the PDF _travel_ securely?" and not "Can anyone go to the HTTPS URL and pick up a copy of the file?". My statement was in response to that specific question, which was clearly quoted immediate prior to the statement itself.

The latter question had already been addressed in my earlier reply, in which I described placing the PDF file outside the web folder on the server, as well as a user login mechanism being utilized, per the OP?s initial requirements.

Lyn





From effendi at wanadoo.fr  Sat Mar  5 06:19:34 2016
From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 12:19:34 +0100
Subject: Activating tabs in a liveCode field
Message-ID: <263ED7F2-B940-4199-8745-D08B74AC275F@wanadoo.fr>

Hi from Beautiful Brittany,

I have a Word file containing tab characters.
I want to drop it into a liveCode field, and have
the tabs respected (all texts lined up)

Can I do this ?

Thanks for any ideas.

-Francis



From paul at researchware.com  Sat Mar  5 07:33:16 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2016 07:33:16 -0500
Subject: Activating tabs in a liveCode field
In-Reply-To: <263ED7F2-B940-4199-8745-D08B74AC275F@wanadoo.fr>
References: <263ED7F2-B940-4199-8745-D08B74AC275F@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <56DAD20C.80100@researchware.com>

Look at
https://livecode.com/products/thirdparty/currykenworthy/wordlib-2-0-0/

On 3/5/2016 6:19 AM, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:
> Hi from Beautiful Brittany,
>
> I have a Word file containing tab characters.
> I want to drop it into a liveCode field, and have
> the tabs respected (all texts lined up)
>
> Can I do this ?
>
> Thanks for any ideas.
>
> -Francis
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>




From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sat Mar  5 07:43:21 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 04:43:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Activating tabs in a liveCode field
In-Reply-To: <263ED7F2-B940-4199-8745-D08B74AC275F@wanadoo.fr>
References: <263ED7F2-B940-4199-8745-D08B74AC275F@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <1457181801688-4702050.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Francis,

if you convert the word document to a RTF document then you could drop it
onto a field from the finder.

The field would have this script

---------------------------------------------
on dragDrop
   put the dragData["files"] into tFiles
   put line 1 of tFiles into tAFile 
   set the itemDelimiter to "."
   if item - 1 of tAFile is "rtf" then
      put url ("binfile:" & tAFile) into tRTF
      set the rtftext of me to tRTF
   end if
end dragDrop
--------------------------------------------

it even respects the tab positioning.
Tested with a simple 2 line 3 columns text, for more complex documents it
might differ.

Note as of LC8 DP8 onwards the field object does not accept dragDrop from
the Finder on MacOSX. Bug 17072

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Activating-tabs-in-a-liveCode-field-tp4702048p4702050.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From cowhead at mac.com  Sat Mar  5 08:17:49 2016
From: cowhead at mac.com (Mark Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2016 22:17:49 +0900
Subject: Use MouseLine() and still edit the same field?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.60.1457126526.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.60.1457126526.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <ED6C65BE-5830-42BF-928B-3BBEB28CA76E@mac.com>

Thanks to Devin, Terry and Matt

I tweaked Devin?s code a bit, and went with a global variable as otherwise it flashes and gives you an epileptic seizure!

But, this works great:
on mouseWithin ? seems to work better than mousemove
 global PastWhichLine
   
   if pastWhichLine is empty then
      put the mouseLine into pastwhichLine
   end if
   
 put the mouseline into tThisLine
    if tThisLine <> PastWhichLine then
    
       set the backgroundColor of pastwhichline to empty
       set the backgroundColor of tThisLine to (220,220,250)
       put tThisLine into PastWhichLine
   end if
end mouseWithin

Thanks folks!

???.. (Apple mail has a bug that automatically changes my name to Japanese and there is no way to stop it? sigh?)

> 
>> On Mar 4, 2016, at 1:08 PM, Mark Mitchell <cowhead at mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> (Sorry Heather!  I?m sending this message again from the ?proper? account..)
>> 
>> I?m not sure how long it has been around, but I have just discovered the ?mousewhithin? message combined with the mouseline() function? Awesome!  So, for those of you who don?t know, the ?mousewithin? message is sent to a field periodically (5 times a second?) whenever the mouse is inside that field. 
>> 
>> Then, the mouseline function returns whatever line of that field the mouse is currently hovering over.  I am currently using this to warn folks if they have too many characters per line.  And that works fine.
>> 
>> But to make it more intuitive, I want to somehow hilite or indicate the line that the mouse is over in the field, without disturbing the ability to edit that field (copy, paste, type stuff) with ease.  
>> 
>> I have tried a few different ways of hiliting the line of the field (selecting it, changing the color of the text of it, etc) but any sort of repeat or recursive structure does not work, as the ?mousewithin? message is simply sent far too often for any ?repeat? or recursion to work.
>> 
>> Does anyone have any other ideas for highlighting a line in a field that might work under these conditions?
> 
> Mark,
> 
> Have you tried setting the backgroundColor of the line, something like this:
> 
> local sCurrLine
> 
> on mouseWithin
>    put the mouseline into tThisLine
>    if tThisLine <> sCurrLine then
>        set the backgroundColor of line 1 to -1 of me to empty
>        set the backgroundColor of tThisLine to (220,220,250)
>        put tThisLine into sCurrLine
>    end if
> end mouseWithin
> 
> on mouseLeave
>    set the backgroundColor of line 1 to -1 of me to empty
> end mouseLeave
> 
> It seemed to work okay here on LC 7.1.2.
> 
> Devin
> 
> Devin Asay
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Sat Mar  5 09:42:42 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2016 14:42:42 +0000
Subject: Set htmlText in LC8 Browser
Message-ID: <29DCB230-8737-4790-858D-2A04C61FDFEA@icloud.com>

There seems to be an issue with set htmlText in LC8 Browser.

The code below generates a chart using amCharts.

It works in Safari with either Open File? or drag and drop.

It works in a LC8 Browser by drag and drop

It DOES NOT work in LC8 Browser by set html text.

Can someone advise please?


Thanks

Terry



<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>

    <head>
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
        <title>amCharts examples</title>
        <link rel="stylesheet" href="style.css" type="text/css">
		
		<script type="text/javascript" src="file:///Users/Terry/Documents/LC/AMCharts/amcharts.js"></script>
		<script type="text/javascript" src="file:///Users/Terry/Documents/LC/AMCharts/serial.js"></script>
		 

        <script>
            var chart;

            var chartData = [
            		{
account:"A",
amount:100.51,
color:"#C39953",
},
{
account:"B",
amount:200.64,
color:"#A17A74",
},
{
account:"C",
amount:300,
color:"#6D9BC3",
},
{
account:"D",
amount:400.84,
color:"#CD607E",
},
{
account:"E",
amount:500.75,
color:"#AD6F69",
},
{
account:"F",
amount:600.23,
color:"#2E2D88",
},
{
account:"F",
amount:700.53,
color:"#AB92B3",
},
{
account:"H",
amount:800,
color:"#676767",
},
{
account:"I",
amount:900.76,
color:"#6EAEA1",
},
{
account:"J",
amount:1000,
color:"#AE98AA",
},

            ];
            
          
            AmCharts.ready(function () {
            
// ------------------ SPECIFY CHART AS SERIAL CHART --------------------

                chart = new AmCharts.AmSerialChart();
                chart.dataProvider = chartData;
                chart.categoryField = "account";
                chart.startDuration = 0.75;
                chart.sequencedAnimation = false;
                chart.startEffect = "bounce";
				//chart.addTitle("Net Worth", 15, color, alpha, bold)
				chart.addTitle("NetWorth", 15);


// ------------------------ CATEGORY OR XAXIS ---------------------------

                var categoryAxis = chart.categoryAxis;
                categoryAxis.labelRotation = 45;
                categoryAxis.fontSize = 13;
                categoryAxis.gridPosition = "start";
                categoryAxis.title = "Account";
                
// ------------------------VALUE OR YAXIS ------------------------------

                var valueAxis = new AmCharts.ValueAxis();
                valueAxis.labelFunction = formatCurrency;
                valueAxis.title = "Amount(?)";
                valueAxis.fontSize = 13;
                chart.addValueAxis(valueAxis);
                
// ------------------ SPECIFY GRAPH --------------------
 
                var graph = new AmCharts.AmGraph();
                graph.valueField = "amount";
				graph.balloonText = "[[category]]: <b>?[[value]]</b>";
				graph.colorField = "color";
                graph.type = "column";
                graph.lineAlpha = 0;
                graph.fillAlphas = 0.8;
                graph.labelText = "?[[value]]";
                graph.fontSize = 10;
                chart.addGraph(graph);

// -------------------- SPECIFY CURSOR  -----------------------

                var chartCursor = new AmCharts.ChartCursor();
                chartCursor.cursorAlpha = 0;
                chartCursor.zoomable = false;
                chartCursor.categoryBalloonEnabled = false;
                chart.addChartCursor(chartCursor);

				//chart.creditsPosition = "top-right";

                chart.write("chartdiv");
// -------------------------------------------------------


            }); //END OF AMCHARTS.READY
            
        
            
	
// ------------- FUNCTION TO FORMAT CURRENCY  ----------
	
		function formatCurrency(num,formattedValue, valueAxis) {
			num = num.toString().replace(/\$|\,/g,'');
			if(isNaN(num))
			num = "0";
			sign = (num == (num = Math.abs(num)));
			num = Math.floor(num*100+0.50000000001);
			pennies = num%100;
			num = Math.floor(num/100).toString();
			if(pennies<10)
				pennies = "0" + pennies;
				for (var i = 0; i < Math.floor((num.length-(1+i))/3); i++)
				num = num.substring(0,num.length-(4*i+3))+','+
				num.substring(num.length-(4*i+3));
		return (((sign)?'':'-') + '?' + num + '.' + pennies);
		}
			
// -------------------------------------------------------

			
        </script>
        
    </head>

    <body>
    <div id="chartdiv" style="width: 100%; height: 700px;"></div>

    </body>

</html>




From prothero at earthednet.org  Sat Mar  5 09:56:01 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 06:56:01 -0800
Subject: Use MouseLine() and still edit the same field?
In-Reply-To: <ED6C65BE-5830-42BF-928B-3BBEB28CA76E@mac.com>
References: <mailman.60.1457126526.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<ED6C65BE-5830-42BF-928B-3BBEB28CA76E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <94C02F90-8EE2-45F3-8D34-08592928454A@earthednet.org>

Mark,
I had a situation where it thought I was French. Go to your setups or preferences and look at language settings. I also find that asking Google for info is useful, even for questions about livecode.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 5, 2016, at 5:17 AM, Mark Mitchell <cowhead at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks to Devin, Terry and Matt
> 
> I tweaked Devin?s code a bit, and went with a global variable as otherwise it flashes and gives you an epileptic seizure!
> 
> But, this works great:
> on mouseWithin ? seems to work better than mousemove
> global PastWhichLine
> 
>   if pastWhichLine is empty then
>      put the mouseLine into pastwhichLine
>   end if
> 
> put the mouseline into tThisLine
>    if tThisLine <> PastWhichLine then
> 
>       set the backgroundColor of pastwhichline to empty
>       set the backgroundColor of tThisLine to (220,220,250)
>       put tThisLine into PastWhichLine
>   end if
> end mouseWithin
> 
> Thanks folks!
> 
> ???.. (Apple mail has a bug that automatically changes my name to Japanese and there is no way to stop it? sigh?)
> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 4, 2016, at 1:08 PM, Mark Mitchell <cowhead at mac.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> (Sorry Heather!  I?m sending this message again from the ?proper? account..)
>>> 
>>> I?m not sure how long it has been around, but I have just discovered the ?mousewhithin? message combined with the mouseline() function? Awesome!  So, for those of you who don?t know, the ?mousewithin? message is sent to a field periodically (5 times a second?) whenever the mouse is inside that field. 
>>> 
>>> Then, the mouseline function returns whatever line of that field the mouse is currently hovering over.  I am currently using this to warn folks if they have too many characters per line.  And that works fine.
>>> 
>>> But to make it more intuitive, I want to somehow hilite or indicate the line that the mouse is over in the field, without disturbing the ability to edit that field (copy, paste, type stuff) with ease.  
>>> 
>>> I have tried a few different ways of hiliting the line of the field (selecting it, changing the color of the text of it, etc) but any sort of repeat or recursive structure does not work, as the ?mousewithin? message is simply sent far too often for any ?repeat? or recursion to work.
>>> 
>>> Does anyone have any other ideas for highlighting a line in a field that might work under these conditions?
>> 
>> Mark,
>> 
>> Have you tried setting the backgroundColor of the line, something like this:
>> 
>> local sCurrLine
>> 
>> on mouseWithin
>>   put the mouseline into tThisLine
>>   if tThisLine <> sCurrLine then
>>       set the backgroundColor of line 1 to -1 of me to empty
>>       set the backgroundColor of tThisLine to (220,220,250)
>>       put tThisLine into sCurrLine
>>   end if
>> end mouseWithin
>> 
>> on mouseLeave
>>   set the backgroundColor of line 1 to -1 of me to empty
>> end mouseLeave
>> 
>> It seemed to work okay here on LC 7.1.2.
>> 
>> Devin
>> 
>> Devin Asay
>> Office of Digital Humanities
>> Brigham Young University
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar  5 11:45:08 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 08:45:08 -0800
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <D2E8D8F6-16B8-4B5C-A99B-12925D5B1F13@livecode.org>
References: <D2E8D8F6-16B8-4B5C-A99B-12925D5B1F13@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <56DB0D14.8030701@fourthworld.com>

Good work - results more or less confirmed here.

Might be good to submit that script with an enhancement request in the 
bug DB to see if those use cases can be optimized.  Previous requests 
with other commands and functions yielded good opportunities for speed 
boosts, bringing v8 much closer to v6.  Whether the same can be done 
with the language features used here is something I don't know, but once 
in the queue the team can review and advise.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com

-hh wrote:
>> > hh wrote:
>> > Will not work with LC 8 for a while, LC 6.7.10 is in average 16 times
>> > faster here. And in average 10 times faster than LC 7.
>>
>> FourthWorld wrote:
>> My own test are showing v8 rather close for v6 in performance, and much
>> faster than 7. What script(s) are you running which get those results?
>
> Let's take a simple example that was recently here in the list.
> For your comfort the script is attached below.
>
> It is also a field, where LC 8 is said to be already optimized.
> Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Here are my results from a medium fast machine (Mac mini, i5-2.5GHz)
> Task (=1 x mouseUp): 100 repeats of find the minimum of 1000 integers
>
> Version: replaceText - replace - min() - sort
> 6.7.10-rc1: 0.30 - 0.07 - 0.06 - 0.21 (worst timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 7.1.3 -rc1: 1.78 - 4.43 - 1.38 - 0.95 (best  timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 8.0.0-dp15: 1.94 - 4.69 - 1.49 - 0.94 (best  timing of 10 x mouseUp)
>
> So the time needed is in relation
> for the "LC-given" min()
> ... LC 6: LC 7: LC 8 = 1:23:25
> and better for the sort
> ... LC 6: LC 7: LC 8 = 1:5:5
> taking the best of each row
> ... LC 6: LC 7: LC 8 = 1:16:16
>
> Better don't force me to publish the results of animating large polygons.
> *** I left these timings out in averaging in order to acknowledge that
> *** LC 8 is still in alpha.
>
> I like LC 8 very much and I live with the speed loss I have when I use it
> (it's worth for me, if I do so). The speed loss is not the culprit of the
> dev team, it's the big bundle of shiny new things we wish to have ...
>
> The script used
> (by Thierry, slightly modified and expanded by me)
> ============================
> on mouseUp
>   repeat with i=1 to 1000
>     get random( 1000)
>     put IT & cr after LinesOfNumbers
>     put IT & comma after OneLineOfNumbers
>     put IT into b[i]
>   end repeat
>   delete last char of LinesOfNumbers
>   delete last char of OneLineOfNumbers
>   put 100 into nRepeat
>   put the milliseconds into _ct
>   -- case 1
>   repeat nRepeat
>     put min( replaceText( LinesOfNumbers, return,comma)) into min1
>   end repeat
>   put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing1
>   wait 1 ticks with messages
>   put the milliseconds into _ct
>   -- case 2
>   repeat nRepeat
>     put LinesOfNumbers into nn
>     replace return with comma in nn
>     put min(nn) into min2
>   end repeat
>   put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing2
>   wait 1 ticks with messages
>   put the milliseconds into _ct
>   -- case 3
>   repeat nRepeat
>     put min( OneLineOfNumbers) into min3
>   end repeat
>   put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing3
>   wait 1 ticks with messages
>   put the milliseconds into _ct
>   -- case 4
>   repeat nRepeat
>     put LinesOfNumbers into nn
>     sort nn numeric
>     put line 1 of nn into min4
>   end repeat
>   put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing4
>   put cr & the version &": "& \
>       format( "%.2f - %.2f -  %.2f -  %.2f %s %s %s", \
>                timing1, timing2, timing3, timing4, min1 is min3, \
>                min2 is min3, min4 is min3) after fld 1
> end mouseUp




From rman at free.fr  Sat Mar  5 12:10:49 2016
From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 09:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <A4E7711F-AA18-4012-8D88-15E5439B2198@livecode.org>
References: <CA+JfEq97=F69G3vsUt5hZT6xUdKot-ZuQe+XrcjmmSg04-DZRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<A4E7711F-AA18-4012-8D88-15E5439B2198@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <1457197849262-4702055.post@n4.nabble.com>

Added to that,  it is a very nice and very respectful attention of the
livecode team to maintain these last builds that are still governed by the
perpetual licenses that existed in the previous century. 
(sigh.. mine stopped at 6.6.5 sniff!)



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-6-7-10-RC-1-7-1-3-RC-1-tp4701938p4702055.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar  5 13:53:45 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 20:53:45 +0200
Subject: Argy-Bargy
Message-ID: <56DB2B39.3010401@gmail.com>

I'm having some fun playing around with a properties palette to set 
control colours
using RGB sliders:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26725&p=139233#p139233

Richmond.



From hh at livecode.org  Sat Mar  5 15:36:50 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 21:36:50 +0100
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
Message-ID: <BBC6204E-67C6-48BA-A2A9-270D0E3B7C63@livecode.org>

> Richard G. wrote:
> .. results more or less confirmed here

> Task (=1 x mouseUp): 100 repeats of find the minimum of 1000 integers
>
> Mac (Mac mini, i5-2.5GHz, dualC)
> Version: replaceText - replace - min() - sort
> 6.7.10-rc1: 0.30 - 0.07 - 0.06 - 0.21 (worst timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 7.1.3 -rc1: 1.78 - 4.43 - 1.38 - 0.95 (best  timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 8.0.0-dp15: 1.94 - 4.69 - 1.49 - 0.94 (best  timing of 10 x mouseUp)

Today I succeeded in running LC on Raspi 3 (using Ubuntu 15.10. MATE),
so I couldn't help to run these tests also on Raspi 2/3:

RaspberryPi 2 B (800 MHz x4) 
Version: replaceText - replace - min() - sort
6.5.1:  3.13 -  0.73 -  0.68 - 1.61 (average timing of 10 x mouseUp)
7.0.4: 15.53 - 34.38 - 11.23 - 7.41 (average timing of 10 x mouseUp)

RaspberryPi 3 B (1.2 GHz x4) 
6.5.1:  2.49 -  0.43 -  0.40 - 1.04 (average timing of 10 x mouseUp)
7.0.4: 10.29 - 19.54 -  6.64 - 4.76 (average timing of 10 x mouseUp)

Perhaps one can now understand, that I 'wasted' a full day to look for
a configuration that runs LC 6 on this great 40 Euro computer (RasPi 3).

Once again: For the minimum function min() is LC 6.5. on both RaspPis
at least twice faster than LC 7/8 on a Mac mini.
Very impressing ...




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Mar  5 16:26:41 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 13:26:41 -0800
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <7E48136A-71A8-4F6A-BD9C-A086B0772D54@gmail.com>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
	<73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>
	<627DE043-6725-44D4-AA8B-B4E89761C36F@gmail.com>
	<56DA59F5.3030200@ahsoftware.net>
	<7E48136A-71A8-4F6A-BD9C-A086B0772D54@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DB4F11.4000106@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/04/2016 10:43 PM, Lyn Teyla wrote:
> The whole point of HTTPS is _not_ just to authenticate the website, but also to encrypt the data in transit:

Yes, but only in transit.

> The latter question had already been addressed in my earlier reply...

Yes, I missed the earlier reply. Just didn't want Colin to go under the 
assumption and using https was all that was necessary. Now that I see 
your earlier post, that seems to cover things quite nicely.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Sat Mar  5 16:46:12 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 16:46:12 -0500
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <56DB4F11.4000106@ahsoftware.net>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
	<73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>
	<627DE043-6725-44D4-AA8B-B4E89761C36F@gmail.com>
	<56DA59F5.3030200@ahsoftware.net>
	<7E48136A-71A8-4F6A-BD9C-A086B0772D54@gmail.com>
	<56DB4F11.4000106@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <1A78C6DB-F4E9-4929-A3FB-0AC3DA89D933@gmail.com>

I may have missed a reply too. Which one covered the question of the PDF remaining encrypted after the user has downloaded it?


> On Mar 5, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> On 03/04/2016 10:43 PM, Lyn Teyla wrote:
>> The whole point of HTTPS is _not_ just to authenticate the website, but also to encrypt the data in transit:
> 
> Yes, but only in transit.
> 
>> The latter question had already been addressed in my earlier reply...
> 
> Yes, I missed the earlier reply. Just didn't want Colin to go under the assumption and using https was all that was necessary. Now that I see your earlier post, that seems to cover things quite nicely.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Mar  5 17:14:12 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:14:12 -0800
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <1A78C6DB-F4E9-4929-A3FB-0AC3DA89D933@gmail.com>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
	<73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>
	<627DE043-6725-44D4-AA8B-B4E89761C36F@gmail.com>
	<56DA59F5.3030200@ahsoftware.net>
	<7E48136A-71A8-4F6A-BD9C-A086B0772D54@gmail.com>
	<56DB4F11.4000106@ahsoftware.net>
	<1A78C6DB-F4E9-4929-A3FB-0AC3DA89D933@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DB5A34.9090002@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/05/2016 01:46 PM, Colin Holgate wrote:
> I may have missed a reply too. Which one covered the question of the PDF remaining encrypted after the user has downloaded it?

Sorry, I cleaned out my mailboxes earlier. Look for Lyn's longer reply 
about three levels back in this discussion.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From lyn.teyla at gmail.com  Sat Mar  5 19:01:21 2016
From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 01:01:21 +0100
Subject: HTML5 teaser
In-Reply-To: <1A78C6DB-F4E9-4929-A3FB-0AC3DA89D933@gmail.com>
References: <8E80B09E-8971-49DF-91BE-040CE8960BDC@gmail.com>
	<03818D51-1334-4F35-9C42-1F72CFCB7E5B@gmail.com>
	<73636381-79C0-4965-95C3-7071B616DC35@gmail.com>
	<627DE043-6725-44D4-AA8B-B4E89761C36F@gmail.com>
	<56DA59F5.3030200@ahsoftware.net>
	<7E48136A-71A8-4F6A-BD9C-A086B0772D54@gmail.com>
	<56DB4F11.4000106@ahsoftware.net>
	<1A78C6DB-F4E9-4929-A3FB-0AC3DA89D933@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF8AF194-2EC5-4DE4-85C7-FFC8BC745225@gmail.com>

Colin Holgate wrote:

> I may have missed a reply too. Which one covered the question of the PDF remaining encrypted after the user has downloaded it?


You added the following 5 requirements after my response containing the suggested implementation:

1. The PDF file itself is also to be encrypted with a password.

2. The PDF encryption is not to be performed beforehand using Acrobat.

3. The PDF encryption is to be performed on the server.

4. The PDF file is to remain encrypted upon receipt.

5. The user is to be prompted to enter the password to unlock it.


With your above additional requirements in mind, the suggested implementation would be as follows:

- Store the PDF on the server, somewhere outside the web folder so it can?t be loaded directly by web visitors.

- Get the user to access the system via a HTTPS connection, which is needed for a secure login mechanism anyway.

- The HTTPS connection does all of the encrypting and decrypting so you don?t have to code it yourself.

- The user logs in via your LiveCode Server app, which handles the usual user authentication stuff using cookies and sessions.

- When the logged in user asks for the PDF file, have your LiveCode Server app generate a new password and send it to a command line app that has the ability to encrypt PDF files, such as PDFtk:

https://www.pdflabs.com/docs/pdftk-man-page/

- Have that command line app output the encrypted PDF file to a location outside the web folder so it can?t be loaded directly by web visitors.

- Have your LiveCode Server app display the newly-generated password on a page in the web browser, with an accompanying download link which calls your LiveCode Server app.

- When the user clicks the download link, have your LiveCode Server app read from the encrypted PDF file and write it out to the web browser (as with any other web content), and with the appropriate Content-Type HTTP header.

- Since you?re having all data transmitted over a HTTPS connection, the user?s login details as well as the PDF file are encrypted whilst in transit.

- Since your LiveCode Server app is the one deciding whether or not to display the PDF (and any other data) based on whether the user is signed in, access can be effectively limited to that user.


Lyn






From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar  5 23:54:18 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 04:54:18 +0000
Subject: Target controls on a card that are *not* part of a placed groups
Message-ID: <etPan.56dbb7fa.4766848c.7d74@Brahmanathaswami.local>

?
I'm trying to customize some development tools. A typical use case it to be able to change the button style of all the buttons on a card, but I don't want to touch the style of buttons that are part of top and bottom nav bars that are placed on all cards. ?I need to be able to go into a review process and if someone says "Let's see what it looks like if we change the buttons to look like XYZ"

I have this in a field of a tools stack:

backgroundcolor|65,65,65
ink|blendHardLight
opaque|true

and a button with this script

on mouseUp

put fld "buttonProps" into tButtonProps
split tButtonProps with cr and "|"
set the defaultStack to the topstack
repeat with x = 1 to (the number of buttons of this card)
# what I really want to do here is skip all the buttons that are in groups
# which are placed on all card (or more than one card
? ?repeat for each key y in tButtonProps
? ? ?set the y of btn x of this card to tButtonProps[y]
? ?end repeat
end repeat

end mouseUp

If you have a better way to tackle this.. it's something I've worked with for years and never came up with an easy solution.?

I also like the idea of selecting the buttons... then I can use this

on mouseUp

? ?put fld "buttonProps" into tButtonProps
? ?split tButtonProps with cr and "|"
? ?set the defaultStack to the topstack
? ?put the number of lines of (the selectedObjects) into tObjects
? ?if tObjects = 0 then?
? ? ? answer "Please select some controls" with "OK"
? ? ? exit to top
? ?end if
? ?
? ?repeat for each line x in (the selectedObjects)
? ? ? repeat for each key y in tButtonProps
? ? ? ? ?set the y of x to tButtonProps[y]
? ? ? end repeat
? ?end repeat
? ?
end mouseUp

Anyone have an even more efficient method? How do you handle this?

BR











From charles at techstrategies.com.au  Sun Mar  6 01:57:11 2016
From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 16:57:11 +1000
Subject: Target controls on a card that are *not* part of a placed groups
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56dbb7fa.4766848c.7d74@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56dbb7fa.4766848c.7d74@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56DBD4C7.2080202@techstrategies.com.au>

On 6/03/2016 2:54 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>   
> I'm trying to customize some development tools. A typical use case it to be able to change the button style of all the buttons on a card, but I don't want to touch the style of buttons that are part of top and bottom nav bars that are placed on all cards.  I need to be able to go into a review process and if someone says "Let's see what it looks like if we change the buttons to look like XYZ"
>
> I have this in a field of a tools stack:
>
> backgroundcolor|65,65,65
> ink|blendHardLight
> opaque|true
>
> and a button with this script
>
> on mouseUp
>
> put fld "buttonProps" into tButtonProps
> split tButtonProps with cr and "|"
> set the defaultStack to the topstack
> repeat with x = 1 to (the number of buttons of this card)
> # what I really want to do here is skip all the buttons that are in groups
> # which are placed on all card (or more than one card
>     repeat for each key y in tButtonProps
>       set the y of btn x of this card to tButtonProps[y]
>     end repeat
> end repeat
>
> end mouseUp
You can check the "owner" of the button and see if it is a shared group 
or not.

You can get a list of the shared groups that are being used on a card by 
using "get the sharedGroupNames of card xxx".

For buttons that aren't in groups, the owner will be the card.  If they 
are in a group, the owner of the button will be the group they are in.

Cheers,

Charles




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 05:28:01 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 12:28:01 +0200
Subject: Swollen Fruit
Message-ID: <56DC0631.9040205@gmail.com>

I have just been looking at several Dorling-Kindersley CDs for Mac OS 8 from
the mid 1990s (that's another reason why I run "Classic Mac OS" on 
several machines)
and noticed a useful visual effect: when a user runs their mouse over a 
series of
images one of them (the target image) becomes both larger and more 
colourful
so that it stands out from the other images>

This is NOT rocket science, but it is useful, especially in the context 
of educational
stuff:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=26741

Richmond.



From dochawk at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 10:27:17 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 07:27:17 -0800
Subject: Target controls on a card that are *not* part of a placed groups
In-Reply-To: <56DBD4C7.2080202@techstrategies.com.au>
References: <etPan.56dbb7fa.4766848c.7d74@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56DBD4C7.2080202@techstrategies.com.au>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSGB8Q8pnymgAP2BoSjW5UcRkk6K5kaLQ7eiZfQBcvsExA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 10:57 PM, Charles Warwick <
charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote:

> You can get a list of the shared groups that are being used on a card by
> using "get the sharedGroupNames of card xxx".
>

Is it reliable?  The undocumented function for unplaced groups produces
both false positives and false negatives.


>
> For buttons that aren't in groups, the owner will be the card.  If they
> are in a group, the owner of the button will be the group they are in.
>

repeat with i = the number of buttons on this card down to 1

if word 1 of the name of button i of this card is not "card" then next
repeat

--do stuff to the button

end repeat



By counting down instead of up, you can delete the button without messing
with your loop, if that is indeed what you want to do based upon the tests
in do stuff
-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 11:46:56 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 18:46:56 +0200
Subject: Script Editor window closing inconveniently
Message-ID: <56DC5F00.4040204@gmail.com>

When a script editor window opens when there is a script execution error I would expect it to REMAIN OPEN when
the BLUE SQUARE is clicked to acknowledge the fact, so that the programmer can edit the script.

Instead of this, on clicking the blue square the script editor window closes, meaning that the programmer has
to open the window again to modify the script.

BUG  17076

Richmond.




From runrev at vonfintel.org  Sun Mar  6 15:15:47 2016
From: runrev at vonfintel.org (Thomas von Fintel)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 21:15:47 +0100
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <BBC6204E-67C6-48BA-A2A9-270D0E3B7C63@livecode.org>
References: <BBC6204E-67C6-48BA-A2A9-270D0E3B7C63@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <6A879BA8-E08A-49D1-A2C2-58F70A0FC4B6@vonfintel.org>

LC 6.5.1 for the Raspberry Pi seems no longer available via the downloads.livecode.com.
Does anyone have a link to the installer?

TIA
Thomas


Am 05.03.2016 um 21:36 schrieb [-hh]:

>> Richard G. wrote:
>> .. results more or less confirmed here
> 
>> Task (=1 x mouseUp): 100 repeats of find the minimum of 1000 integers
>> 
>> Mac (Mac mini, i5-2.5GHz, dualC)
>> Version: replaceText - replace - min() - sort
>> 6.7.10-rc1: 0.30 - 0.07 - 0.06 - 0.21 (worst timing of 10 x mouseUp)
>> 7.1.3 -rc1: 1.78 - 4.43 - 1.38 - 0.95 (best  timing of 10 x mouseUp)
>> 8.0.0-dp15: 1.94 - 4.69 - 1.49 - 0.94 (best  timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 
> Today I succeeded in running LC on Raspi 3 (using Ubuntu 15.10. MATE),
> so I couldn't help to run these tests also on Raspi 2/3:
> 
> RaspberryPi 2 B (800 MHz x4) 
> Version: replaceText - replace - min() - sort
> 6.5.1:  3.13 -  0.73 -  0.68 - 1.61 (average timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 7.0.4: 15.53 - 34.38 - 11.23 - 7.41 (average timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 
> RaspberryPi 3 B (1.2 GHz x4) 
> 6.5.1:  2.49 -  0.43 -  0.40 - 1.04 (average timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 7.0.4: 10.29 - 19.54 -  6.64 - 4.76 (average timing of 10 x mouseUp)
> 
> Perhaps one can now understand, that I 'wasted' a full day to look for
> a configuration that runs LC 6 on this great 40 Euro computer (RasPi 3).
> 
> Once again: For the minimum function min() is LC 6.5. on both RaspPis
> at least twice faster than LC 7/8 on a Mac mini.
> Very impressing ...
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at livecode.org  Sun Mar  6 15:34:24 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 21:34:24 +0100
Subject: Release 6.7.10 RC 1 / 7.1.3 RC 1
Message-ID: <790C96C2-7220-4BC2-BA91-B779D1137650@livecode.org>

Quoted from
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=96928#p96928

"LC-IDEs for the RaspberryPi are available HERE (downloads.livecode.com)
Thanks to Fraser Gordon from LC-staff.
	? LC 6.5.1 (fast, scroll download-page to bottom)
	? LC 7.0.4 (slower, but fully implemented Unicode-stuff)
For installing and handling some problems see the 'FAQs' of this sub-forum."


From prothero at earthednet.org  Sun Mar  6 15:42:59 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 12:42:59 -0800
Subject: Playing movies
Message-ID: <29313E98-2935-4211-B98B-043075803A83@earthednet.org>

Folks:
There has been discussion about a movie player being updated on the list. My question is: how should I play a simple movie in a livecode standalone? I don?t want to be dependent on Quicktime as I understand it is going obsolete and Windows users would need to download Quicktime. 

At least, I could play it in a browser window, but I wonder what?s the latest and greatest way?

Best,
Bill

William Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
prothero at earthednet.org






From prothero at earthednet.org  Sun Mar  6 15:46:26 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 12:46:26 -0800
Subject: Playing movies
In-Reply-To: <29313E98-2935-4211-B98B-043075803A83@earthednet.org>
References: <29313E98-2935-4211-B98B-043075803A83@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <0EF9636E-1BFA-495E-BDE1-D59B2222C5D1@earthednet.org>

By the way, I note that the dictioary mentions Quicktime VR. I thought that was completely gone. I have some Quicktime VR movies that could be nice to include in my current work, but no use putting them in if it?sat EOL or defunct.
Best,
Bill

> On Mar 6, 2016, at 12:42 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> There has been discussion about a movie player being updated on the list. My question is: how should I play a simple movie in a livecode standalone? I don?t want to be dependent on Quicktime as I understand it is going obsolete and Windows users would need to download Quicktime. 
> 
> At least, I could play it in a browser window, but I wonder what?s the latest and greatest way?
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> prothero at earthednet.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jonathandlynch at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 16:55:51 2016
From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (Jonathan Lynch)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 16:55:51 -0500
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
Message-ID: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello fellow LiveCoders,

I need to write an external and it needs to be fast. It is for extracting
images from a green screen. I wrote a good algorithm for this in LiveCode,
but it takes 20-30 seconds to handle all of the data processing. I want to
use C++ for speed advantages.

I tried following the desktop externals tutorial that LiveCode uses, but it
seems that the external generator that LiveCode offers does not work
properly with Visual Studio 2015.

Should I try to find a free version of VS 2010? Should I try to fix the C++
library files so that they work with VS 2015? Is there some other very fast
compiled language, like Fortran, that I should try?

I welcome any advice on how to do this.

Thanks,

Jonathan



-- 
Do all things with love


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Sun Mar  6 17:08:43 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 14:08:43 -0800
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>

Hi Jonathan,

I would start by seeing if your LC code can be optimized so the time it 
takes per screen is acceptable. There are many small changes a person 
can sometimes make to code that causes dramatic speed increases.

Or is the bulk of the time spent in areas LC can't address natively? 
Maybe that's why you want to go toward an external.

Thanks -
Phil Davis


On 3/6/16 1:55 PM, Jonathan Lynch wrote:
> Hello fellow LiveCoders,
>
> I need to write an external and it needs to be fast. It is for extracting
> images from a green screen. I wrote a good algorithm for this in LiveCode,
> but it takes 20-30 seconds to handle all of the data processing. I want to
> use C++ for speed advantages.
>
> I tried following the desktop externals tutorial that LiveCode uses, but it
> seems that the external generator that LiveCode offers does not work
> properly with Visual Studio 2015.
>
> Should I try to find a free version of VS 2010? Should I try to fix the C++
> library files so that they work with VS 2015? Is there some other very fast
> compiled language, like Fortran, that I should try?
>
> I welcome any advice on how to do this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 17:49:33 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2016 22:49:33 +0000
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>

But I would also appreciate a reply, maybe from Peter, which is of general
interest to all of us.

Optimizing is one possibility, then the question about what would LC
Builder accomplish, and then C++, if nothing else does the job fast enough?

I am thinking about some optimisation algorithms which are already
available in C++ and would probably execute not well enough in LCS.

Roland

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016, 23:10 Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:

> Hi Jonathan,
>
> I would start by seeing if your LC code can be optimized so the time it
> takes per screen is acceptable. There are many small changes a person
> can sometimes make to code that causes dramatic speed increases.
>
> Or is the bulk of the time spent in areas LC can't address natively?
> Maybe that's why you want to go toward an external.
>
> Thanks -
> Phil Davis
>
>
> On 3/6/16 1:55 PM, Jonathan Lynch wrote:
> > Hello fellow LiveCoders,
> >
> > I need to write an external and it needs to be fast. It is for extracting
> > images from a green screen. I wrote a good algorithm for this in
> LiveCode,
> > but it takes 20-30 seconds to handle all of the data processing. I want
> to
> > use C++ for speed advantages.
> >
> > I tried following the desktop externals tutorial that LiveCode uses, but
> it
> > seems that the external generator that LiveCode offers does not work
> > properly with Visual Studio 2015.
> >
> > Should I try to find a free version of VS 2010? Should I try to fix the
> C++
> > library files so that they work with VS 2015? Is there some other very
> fast
> > compiled language, like Fortran, that I should try?
> >
> > I welcome any advice on how to do this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Phil Davis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 17:55:10 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 00:55:10 +0200
Subject: [OT] An XFCE launcher that will hide behind Livecode standalones
Message-ID: <56DCB54E.1020406@gmail.com>

The XFCE panels always are "in front of" any programs launched.

I have a problem in my school in that the computers now contain about 
120 standalones
[and more on the way] that I have authored for ESL teaching purposes: 
but I really don't
want to either:

1. Spend ages drilling down through folders for each pupil to launch a 
standalone.

2. Have the pupils spend ages drilling down through folders for each 
pupil to launch a standalone.

To that end I need a launcher that covers the whole screen [and, NO, I 
don't want buckets of symbolic links on the actual desktop as pupils can 
mess those about], that, when a standalone is launched will NOT
cover the standalone.

Richmond.



From jonathandlynch at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 18:36:52 2016
From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (Jonathan Lynch)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 18:36:52 -0500
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>

A green-screen extraction on a large image requires millions of
calculations. I am not using a flood-fill based extraction, so that helps a
bit, but it still requires looking at every single pixel and checking to
see if the colors are within a certain range. I want to improve the
algorithm, so that it uses both a color-range comparison and a hue
comparison. Colors that are outside of the color-range comparison but
within the hue comparison probably have splashback from the green screen,
and I could remove some of the green from those pixels - maybe cut the
green component of the pixel in half or something like that.

So, well, that is a whole ton of calculations right there. I really worked
to optimize it in LC, but those optimizations only made a small difference.
An interpreted language would be very unlikely to come close in speed on
raw numerical comparisons like that. From what I understand, even LCB is
more like Java than like C++, so it might be a bit faster than LC, but not
in the range I need. Don't quote me on that.

In general, LC is supposed to be able to to be extended with externals. In
practical terms, this means it should work with the current version of
Visual Studio. I don't have much C++ experience. I was hoping to just
trudge through setting up the external so that I could focus on the
algorithm. Instead, I could not even use the tutorial.

I will try to find a way, though. I am just hoping for advice so that I can
avoid any more blind alleys.

Thanks,

J



On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Roland Huettmann <roland.huettmann at gmail.com
> wrote:

> But I would also appreciate a reply, maybe from Peter, which is of general
> interest to all of us.
>
> Optimizing is one possibility, then the question about what would LC
> Builder accomplish, and then C++, if nothing else does the job fast enough?
>
> I am thinking about some optimisation algorithms which are already
> available in C++ and would probably execute not well enough in LCS.
>
> Roland
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016, 23:10 Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jonathan,
> >
> > I would start by seeing if your LC code can be optimized so the time it
> > takes per screen is acceptable. There are many small changes a person
> > can sometimes make to code that causes dramatic speed increases.
> >
> > Or is the bulk of the time spent in areas LC can't address natively?
> > Maybe that's why you want to go toward an external.
> >
> > Thanks -
> > Phil Davis
> >
> >
> > On 3/6/16 1:55 PM, Jonathan Lynch wrote:
> > > Hello fellow LiveCoders,
> > >
> > > I need to write an external and it needs to be fast. It is for
> extracting
> > > images from a green screen. I wrote a good algorithm for this in
> > LiveCode,
> > > but it takes 20-30 seconds to handle all of the data processing. I want
> > to
> > > use C++ for speed advantages.
> > >
> > > I tried following the desktop externals tutorial that LiveCode uses,
> but
> > it
> > > seems that the external generator that LiveCode offers does not work
> > > properly with Visual Studio 2015.
> > >
> > > Should I try to find a free version of VS 2010? Should I try to fix the
> > C++
> > > library files so that they work with VS 2015? Is there some other very
> > fast
> > > compiled language, like Fortran, that I should try?
> > >
> > > I welcome any advice on how to do this.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Phil Davis
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
Do all things with love


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Sun Mar  6 18:53:40 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 15:53:40 -0800
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DCC304.90402@pdslabs.net>

Jonathan,

I see I am out of my league here. I'm sure others can give good advice 
however - this list is read by a lot of very smart people.

Phil


On 3/6/16 3:36 PM, Jonathan Lynch wrote:
> A green-screen extraction on a large image requires millions of
> calculations. I am not using a flood-fill based extraction, so that helps a
> bit, but it still requires looking at every single pixel and checking to
> see if the colors are within a certain range. I want to improve the
> algorithm, so that it uses both a color-range comparison and a hue
> comparison. Colors that are outside of the color-range comparison but
> within the hue comparison probably have splashback from the green screen,
> and I could remove some of the green from those pixels - maybe cut the
> green component of the pixel in half or something like that.
>
> So, well, that is a whole ton of calculations right there. I really worked
> to optimize it in LC, but those optimizations only made a small difference.
> An interpreted language would be very unlikely to come close in speed on
> raw numerical comparisons like that. From what I understand, even LCB is
> more like Java than like C++, so it might be a bit faster than LC, but not
> in the range I need. Don't quote me on that.
>
> In general, LC is supposed to be able to to be extended with externals. In
> practical terms, this means it should work with the current version of
> Visual Studio. I don't have much C++ experience. I was hoping to just
> trudge through setting up the external so that I could focus on the
> algorithm. Instead, I could not even use the tutorial.
>
> I will try to find a way, though. I am just hoping for advice so that I can
> avoid any more blind alleys.
>
> Thanks,
>
> J
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Roland Huettmann <roland.huettmann at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> But I would also appreciate a reply, maybe from Peter, which is of general
>> interest to all of us.
>>
>> Optimizing is one possibility, then the question about what would LC
>> Builder accomplish, and then C++, if nothing else does the job fast enough?
>>
>> I am thinking about some optimisation algorithms which are already
>> available in C++ and would probably execute not well enough in LCS.
>>
>> Roland
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016, 23:10 Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jonathan,
>>>
>>> I would start by seeing if your LC code can be optimized so the time it
>>> takes per screen is acceptable. There are many small changes a person
>>> can sometimes make to code that causes dramatic speed increases.
>>>
>>> Or is the bulk of the time spent in areas LC can't address natively?
>>> Maybe that's why you want to go toward an external.
>>>
>>> Thanks -
>>> Phil Davis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/16 1:55 PM, Jonathan Lynch wrote:
>>>> Hello fellow LiveCoders,
>>>>
>>>> I need to write an external and it needs to be fast. It is for
>> extracting
>>>> images from a green screen. I wrote a good algorithm for this in
>>> LiveCode,
>>>> but it takes 20-30 seconds to handle all of the data processing. I want
>>> to
>>>> use C++ for speed advantages.
>>>>
>>>> I tried following the desktop externals tutorial that LiveCode uses,
>> but
>>> it
>>>> seems that the external generator that LiveCode offers does not work
>>>> properly with Visual Studio 2015.
>>>>
>>>> Should I try to find a free version of VS 2010? Should I try to fix the
>>> C++
>>>> library files so that they work with VS 2015? Is there some other very
>>> fast
>>>> compiled language, like Fortran, that I should try?
>>>>
>>>> I welcome any advice on how to do this.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Phil Davis
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com  Sun Mar  6 18:27:26 2016
From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 15:27:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Playing movies
In-Reply-To: <29313E98-2935-4211-B98B-043075803A83@earthednet.org>
References: <29313E98-2935-4211-B98B-043075803A83@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <1457306846497-4702077.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi, Bill.

Seems the whole LC community is in a state of frustration regarding this. 

But one minimal method I find works to play an online movie is to embed a
movie url in a LC field with the linkStyle set to "link". 

Then add to your stack a script...

on linkClicked pLink
 launch url pLink
end linkClicked

(Fine print: linkClicked does not work except in Browse mode, the field must
be locked and it must have its listBehavior property set to false.)

I don't know of a way to find out from the browser when the movie has
finished, so I wait for the resumeStack message to fire indicating the user
has returned and, presumably, the movie is done.

If you prefer an icon to a text link, perhaps you can embed a graphic in the
field and link from that. (I haven't tried that, but you get extra credit if
you make it work!)

HTH,
Tom B.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Playing-movies-tp4702069p4702077.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Sun Mar  6 19:08:20 2016
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 01:08:20 +0100
Subject: [OT] An XFCE launcher that will hide behind Livecode standalones
Message-ID: <CF8D4430-8E2C-4595-BEA1-773AF79E638F@livecode.org>

Why don't you write a stack, that has a launch button for each standalone, and minimizes to a small square at topRight after each launch?



From simon at asato-media.com  Sun Mar  6 20:23:12 2016
From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 17:23:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1457313792247-4702079.post@n4.nabble.com>

Jonathan Lynch wrote
> ...but it still requires looking at every single pixel and checking to
> see if the colors are within a certain range.

I'm way out of my league here but...
Doesn't lossy jpeg compression make assumptions about 2 pixels next to each
other?
(pseudo)
if pixel 1,1 = green 
skip pixel 1,2
is pixel 1,3 green
etc.
That would increase the speed by lots I'd think.
Of course it is lossy.

Simon



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/I-need-to-write-an-external-for-LiveCode-in-C-but-I-doubt-my-ability-to-do-it-tp4702071p4702079.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From monte at appisle.net  Sun Mar  6 21:10:24 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 13:10:24 +1100
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++,
	but I doubt my ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71C7B750-8D33-47EE-A331-D1DB92E79B10@appisle.net>


> On 7 Mar 2016, at 10:36 AM, Jonathan Lynch <jonathandlynch at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I will try to find a way, though. I am just hoping for advice so that I can
> avoid any more blind alleys.

The documentation is quite sparse for externals, however, I think that?s the way you will need to go to get the speed you need. There are more examples online now than there ever have been so I would start by reviewing the source of the externals in the LC repo and then look at those in my account and if you search GitHub for LiveCode I?m sure others will pop up like the SSH external.

I have a couple of externals that mess with imageData and they can be quite quick although they are only used in screen resolutions so if you have very large images that will slow them down obviously. Depending on what you are doing though I might be inclined to look at an OpenCV external. I believe with OpenCV you can green screen live camera feeds so it?s pretty fast.

Cheers

Monte




From jonathandlynch at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 21:12:09 2016
From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (Jonathan Lynch)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 21:12:09 -0500
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <1457313792247-4702079.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1457313792247-4702079.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAC-_fWTbhmTVH+OHNBpCFM3PEas1TvJzERsbFyAn2TOFAhOmoA@mail.gmail.com>

This is for processing high-definition images that are composited and
printed, so I really have to work with high image qualities. Also, I am
working through the imagedata, which is a string of characters, rather than
the content of the image. In that sense, the starting format of the image
is not entirely relevant. The size of the image is quite relevant. The data
within each image is set to have four times the horizontal and vertical
resolution of the screen.

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Simon <simon at asato-media.com> wrote:

> Jonathan Lynch wrote
> > ...but it still requires looking at every single pixel and checking to
> > see if the colors are within a certain range.
>
> I'm way out of my league here but...
> Doesn't lossy jpeg compression make assumptions about 2 pixels next to each
> other?
> (pseudo)
> if pixel 1,1 = green
> skip pixel 1,2
> is pixel 1,3 green
> etc.
> That would increase the speed by lots I'd think.
> Of course it is lossy.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/I-need-to-write-an-external-for-LiveCode-in-C-but-I-doubt-my-ability-to-do-it-tp4702071p4702079.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
Do all things with love


From jonathandlynch at gmail.com  Sun Mar  6 21:45:59 2016
From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (Jonathan Lynch)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 21:45:59 -0500
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <CAC-_fWTbhmTVH+OHNBpCFM3PEas1TvJzERsbFyAn2TOFAhOmoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1457313792247-4702079.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAC-_fWTbhmTVH+OHNBpCFM3PEas1TvJzERsbFyAn2TOFAhOmoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC-_fWQa8ykYErK=B+dtiy8gV4PX1ZHRoR7mFJq_sPkh1Xr9SA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Monte,

I will look at those things. Great advice :)

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Jonathan Lynch <jonathandlynch at gmail.com>
wrote:

> This is for processing high-definition images that are composited and
> printed, so I really have to work with high image qualities. Also, I am
> working through the imagedata, which is a string of characters, rather than
> the content of the image. In that sense, the starting format of the image
> is not entirely relevant. The size of the image is quite relevant. The data
> within each image is set to have four times the horizontal and vertical
> resolution of the screen.
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Simon <simon at asato-media.com> wrote:
>
>> Jonathan Lynch wrote
>> > ...but it still requires looking at every single pixel and checking to
>> > see if the colors are within a certain range.
>>
>> I'm way out of my league here but...
>> Doesn't lossy jpeg compression make assumptions about 2 pixels next to
>> each
>> other?
>> (pseudo)
>> if pixel 1,1 = green
>> skip pixel 1,2
>> is pixel 1,3 green
>> etc.
>> That would increase the speed by lots I'd think.
>> Of course it is lossy.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/I-need-to-write-an-external-for-LiveCode-in-C-but-I-doubt-my-ability-to-do-it-tp4702071p4702079.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Do all things with love
>



-- 
Do all things with love


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar  6 22:35:23 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 19:35:23 -0800
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <71C7B750-8D33-47EE-A331-D1DB92E79B10@appisle.net>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<71C7B750-8D33-47EE-A331-D1DB92E79B10@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56DCF6FB.2000007@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/06/2016 06:10 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> I might be inclined to look at an OpenCV external. I believe with OpenCV you can green screen live camera feeds so it?s pretty fast.

I second the suggestion for OpenCV. It's blazingly fast and probably 
already has much of what you need prepackaged for you. I use it, for 
example, to determine pulse rate from live webcam streams.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar  6 23:20:09 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 04:20:09 +0000
Subject: Target controls on a card that are *not* part of a placed groups
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSGB8Q8pnymgAP2BoSjW5UcRkk6K5kaLQ7eiZfQBcvsExA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <etPan.56dbb7fa.4766848c.7d74@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56DBD4C7.2080202@techstrategies.com.au>
	<CANQHZSGB8Q8pnymgAP2BoSjW5UcRkk6K5kaLQ7eiZfQBcvsExA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56dd0179.217736b.80a7@Brahmanathaswami.local>

?
Aloha, Dr. Hawkins

excellent.. thank you  

I think you mean "owner of button..."  

this works marvelously  

------?
on mouseUp?
? ?
? ?put fld "objectProps" into aObjectProps
? ?split aObjectProps with cr and "|"?
? ?set the defaultStack to the topstack?
? ?
? ?repeat with i = the number of buttons on this card down to 1?
? ? ? if word 1 of the owner of button i of this card is not "card" then?
? ? ? ? ?next repeat?
? ? else
? ? ? ? ?repeat for each key y in aObjectProps
? ? ? ? ? ? set the y of ?button i of this card ?to aObjectProps[y]?
? ? ? ? ?end repeat?
? ? ? end if
? ? ? end repeat
end mouseUp?




-----
BR  

On March 6, 2016 at 5:27:40 AM, Dr. Hawkins (dochawk at gmail.com(mailto:dochawk at gmail.com)) wrote:

> repeat with i = the number of buttons on this card down to 1  
>  
> if word 1 of the name of button i of this card is not "card" then next  
> repeat  
>  
> --do stuff to the button  
>  
> end repeat

From prothero at earthednet.org  Sun Mar  6 23:28:19 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 20:28:19 -0800
Subject: Playing movies
In-Reply-To: <1457306846497-4702077.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <29313E98-2935-4211-B98B-043075803A83@earthednet.org>
	<1457306846497-4702077.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <8FF07F57-8402-4542-8C00-F6CEFA48F5B8@earthednet.org>

Tom,
Thanks. The movie is part of a slide show type presentation, so just playing it in a browser window might be best. I have done this in the past using the cref browser, but it adds a lot to the app size.

Not being able to play movies in livecode, is a severe shortcoming, and I hope the player can be updated soon.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 6, 2016, at 3:27 PM, tbodine <bodine at bodinetraininggames.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Bill.
> 
> Seems the whole LC community is in a state of frustration regarding this. 
> 
> But one minimal method I find works to play an online movie is to embed a
> movie url in a LC field with the linkStyle set to "link". 
> 
> Then add to your stack a script...
> 
> on linkClicked pLink
> launch url pLink
> end linkClicked
> 
> (Fine print: linkClicked does not work except in Browse mode, the field must
> be locked and it must have its listBehavior property set to false.)
> 
> I don't know of a way to find out from the browser when the movie has
> finished, so I wait for the resumeStack message to fire indicating the user
> has returned and, presumably, the movie is done.
> 
> If you prefer an icon to a text link, perhaps you can embed a graphic in the
> field and link from that. (I haven't tried that, but you get extra credit if
> you make it work!)
> 
> HTH,
> Tom B.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Playing-movies-tp4702069p4702077.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 01:11:12 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 22:11:12 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
Message-ID: <CA+S82Dot6BJ7=KGLjEvfLL+GF7YWZc1oK-K7a9dCm9zbGSg59A@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know of any website templates that use Livecode? I want to set
up a basic file hosting/sharing thing with logins. I've got space in what
used to be the on-rev servers and it would be nice to continue using
livecode on the web like I use it on the desktop.


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Mon Mar  7 01:43:32 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 22:43:32 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dot6BJ7=KGLjEvfLL+GF7YWZc1oK-K7a9dCm9zbGSg59A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82Dot6BJ7=KGLjEvfLL+GF7YWZc1oK-K7a9dCm9zbGSg59A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DD2314.6070403@pdslabs.net>

Templates, no. Framework, yes:

     http://revigniter.com/

Phil Davis



On 3/6/16 10:11 PM, Matt Maier wrote:
> Does anyone know of any website templates that use Livecode? I want to set
> up a basic file hosting/sharing thing with logins. I've got space in what
> used to be the on-rev servers and it would be nice to continue using
> livecode on the web like I use it on the desktop.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From jonathandlynch at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 05:37:46 2016
From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (Jonathan Lynch)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 05:37:46 -0500
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <56DCF6FB.2000007@ahsoftware.net>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<71C7B750-8D33-47EE-A331-D1DB92E79B10@appisle.net>
	<56DCF6FB.2000007@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CAC-_fWSpCFxq_dLM9Fs8sVwXvyAcej3k2WA06gWWvm6DBKcHqQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have been reading about OpenCV. It sounds quite extensive!!! Can it make
my morning coffee? Given all of the other functions built into it, I would
not be entirely surprised. OpenCV includes facial recognition functions,
which seems substantially more difficult.

I am trying to figure out how to link it to LiveCode, now. Thanks for this
pointer.

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> On 03/06/2016 06:10 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
> I might be inclined to look at an OpenCV external. I believe with OpenCV
>> you can green screen live camera feeds so it?s pretty fast.
>>
>
> I second the suggestion for OpenCV. It's blazingly fast and probably
> already has much of what you need prepackaged for you. I use it, for
> example, to determine pulse rate from live webcam streams.
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
Do all things with love


From monte at appisle.net  Mon Mar  7 05:47:09 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 21:47:09 +1100
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++,
	but I doubt my ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <CAC-_fWSpCFxq_dLM9Fs8sVwXvyAcej3k2WA06gWWvm6DBKcHqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<71C7B750-8D33-47EE-A331-D1DB92E79B10@appisle.net>
	<56DCF6FB.2000007@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAC-_fWSpCFxq_dLM9Fs8sVwXvyAcej3k2WA06gWWvm6DBKcHqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81DAAAB7-8D01-450C-BEDF-4130508E80CE@appisle.net>


> On 7 Mar 2016, at 9:37 PM, Jonathan Lynch <jonathandlynch at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am trying to figure out how to link it to LiveCode, now. Thanks for this
> pointer.

You might be able to just compile the library and then hook what you need up via LCB which would be nice. There does look to be rather heavy use of structs which would probably make a LCB implementation more complicated than an external implementation at this stage.

Cheers

Monte

From peter.brett at livecode.com  Mon Mar  7 06:34:35 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 11:34:35 +0000
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 23
Message-ID: <56DD674B.9030404@livecode.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

      Read issue #23 here: https://goo.gl/dD3Ub8


This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project.  New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays.  We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.

                                       Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Mon Mar  7 10:14:50 2016
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 10:14:50 -0500
Subject: LCB: Inline documentation not showing up in LCB
Message-ID: <C8D1942E-41D7-44C4-95CE-A486950E6E9E@madmansoft.com>

Hi All,

I?m using the inline documentation method for rsIsValid and I am not seeing it in the API listing or User Guide although I?m not sure it?s supposed to be there for the user guide.

Any ideas? 

Thanks,

Steve MacLean



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 13:17:45 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 20:17:45 +0200
Subject: [OT] An XFCE launcher that will hide behind Livecode standalones
In-Reply-To: <CF8D4430-8E2C-4595-BEA1-773AF79E638F@livecode.org>
References: <CF8D4430-8E2C-4595-BEA1-773AF79E638F@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <56DDC5C9.6030307@gmail.com>

That's all very fine in theory until you realise that new standalones 
will be
continually added, so one will have to be continually rewriting the 
launcher and
reinstalling it, along with the new standalones, on all the machines in 
my school.

I have subsequently tired out using an XFCE panel with 6 rows that hides 
'always' or 'intelligently',
which, while not ideal, will probably have to do for the moment.

In a perfect world (Ha, Ha, Ha) as standalones were added to a folder 
there would be symbolic links
added to some sort of blanket launcher/desktop that, on a standalone 
being launched would not 'hide' or somesuch, but would just remain 
behind the standalone.

This can be done by setting up launchers on the XFCE desktop and not 
having any panels, but
this has to be done on a machine-by-machine basis which is a 'major fag' 
frankly.

Richmond.

On 7.03.2016 02:08, [-hh] wrote:
> Why don't you write a stack, that has a launch button for each standalone, and minimizes to a small square at topRight after each launch?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Mon Mar  7 13:22:48 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 19:22:48 +0100
Subject: [OT] An XFCE launcher that will hide behind Livecode standalones
In-Reply-To: <56DDC5C9.6030307@gmail.com>
References: <CF8D4430-8E2C-4595-BEA1-773AF79E638F@livecode.org>
	<56DDC5C9.6030307@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE47090F-50B5-4EBC-81CF-C52C0D6D0659@me.com>

Or you could just read in the actual stacks to use from a document, put the info into a field, and put a mouseUp handler in the field that responds to the clickLine to launch the chosen stack. Then all you would have to do is to add or change information in the document. You could hav the launcher read from the document automatically in time, or at start up.

Tore

> 7. mar. 2016 kl. 19.17 skrev RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com>:
> 
> That's all very fine in theory until you realise that new standalones will be
> continually added, so one will have to be continually rewriting the launcher and
> reinstalling it, along with the new standalones, on all the machines in my school.
> 
> I have subsequently tired out using an XFCE panel with 6 rows that hides 'always' or 'intelligently',
> which, while not ideal, will probably have to do for the moment.
> 
> In a perfect world (Ha, Ha, Ha) as standalones were added to a folder there would be symbolic links
> added to some sort of blanket launcher/desktop that, on a standalone being launched would not 'hide' or somesuch, but would just remain behind the standalone.
> 
> This can be done by setting up launchers on the XFCE desktop and not having any panels, but
> this has to be done on a machine-by-machine basis which is a 'major fag' frankly.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 7.03.2016 02:08, [-hh] wrote:
>> Why don't you write a stack, that has a launch button for each standalone, and minimizes to a small square at topRight after each launch?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Mon Mar  7 14:24:14 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 20:24:14 +0100
Subject: [OT] An XFCE launcher that will hide behind Livecode standalones
In-Reply-To: <EE47090F-50B5-4EBC-81CF-C52C0D6D0659@me.com>
References: <CF8D4430-8E2C-4595-BEA1-773AF79E638F@livecode.org>
	<56DDC5C9.6030307@gmail.com>
	<EE47090F-50B5-4EBC-81CF-C52C0D6D0659@me.com>
Message-ID: <1F907B08-AA61-4DCD-9A98-86F3F4F2BBCF@me.com>

You could also have LiveCode check the folder automatically, in timed intervals, put the files of the folder into a variable, filter out unwanted files and put the variable into the field. Then all you would have to take care of was to add the apps to the folder.

Tore

> 7. mar. 2016 kl. 19.22 skrev Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com>:
> 
> Or you could just read in the actual stacks to use from a document, put the info into a field, and put a mouseUp handler in the field that responds to the clickLine to launch the chosen stack. Then all you would have to do is to add or change information in the document. You could hav the launcher read from the document automatically in time, or at start up.
> 
> Tore
> 
>> 7. mar. 2016 kl. 19.17 skrev RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com>:
>> 
>> That's all very fine in theory until you realise that new standalones will be
>> continually added, so one will have to be continually rewriting the launcher and
>> reinstalling it, along with the new standalones, on all the machines in my school.
>> 
>> I have subsequently tired out using an XFCE panel with 6 rows that hides 'always' or 'intelligently',
>> which, while not ideal, will probably have to do for the moment.
>> 
>> In a perfect world (Ha, Ha, Ha) as standalones were added to a folder there would be symbolic links
>> added to some sort of blanket launcher/desktop that, on a standalone being launched would not 'hide' or somesuch, but would just remain behind the standalone.
>> 
>> This can be done by setting up launchers on the XFCE desktop and not having any panels, but
>> this has to be done on a machine-by-machine basis which is a 'major fag' frankly.
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
>> On 7.03.2016 02:08, [-hh] wrote:
>>> Why don't you write a stack, that has a launch button for each standalone, and minimizes to a small square at topRight after each launch?
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From revdev at pdslabs.net  Mon Mar  7 14:32:56 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 11:32:56 -0800
Subject: using imageSource in datagrid tables
Message-ID: <56DDD768.9090700@pdslabs.net>

Hi folks,

I want to set the imageSource of char 1 of a data grid table cell to an 
icon ID. Has anyone succeeded in doing this? If so, could you post your 
code? I'm struggling with it.

Thanks -

-- 
Phil Davis




From iowahengst at mac.com  Mon Mar  7 16:26:20 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 15:26:20 -0600
Subject: Launcher Stack and Saving
Message-ID: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>

Hi All,

I?m working for the first time with the ?launcher? stack process to be able to save in a livecode stack.

OSX 10.10.5 and LC 7.1.1

I?ve followed this lesson: 
How do I save custom properties in a standalone application?
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/17375-how-do-i-save-custom-properties-in-a-standalone-application

And have created a ?launch? stack and ?main? stack as outlined. So, this code is in the launcher:
on openStack
    open stack "Main Application.livecode"
    close stack "Launcher"
end openStack

And, in the main stack I have this code
on closeStack
   save this stack
   pass closeStack
end closeStack

The ?main? stack opens just fine?  But, I?ve run into a couple bumps for which I haven?t found an answer in the lists or forum.

First, my ?answer? calls don?t work when I open the ?main? stack from the launcher. They work just fine in the IDE. Nothing appears at all. The script does run as if the ?answer? call isn?t there? no error, etc.

Second, when I ?quit? the launcher the changes made to the ?main? stack are not saved. However, when I close by clicking the ?red? dot of the ?main? stack, the changes are saved. 

Finally, is it possible to place the ?main? stack in the OSX package rather than having the stack in the same folder as the launcher standalone?

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com




From zryip.theslug at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 18:27:47 2016
From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 00:27:47 +0100
Subject: using imageSource in datagrid tables
In-Reply-To: <56DDD768.9090700@pdslabs.net>
References: <56DDD768.9090700@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CANbzFDpYC1QJWRrLNz685BieP7Z71rOs06kwjGewZN0ZJm1DSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Phil,

In the custom behavior of the column or in the custom column behavior
of your datagrid:

on FillInData pData
   set the text of the long ID of me to pData
   set the imageSource of char 1 of (the long id of me) to 1010
end FillInData


Best Regards,

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I want to set the imageSource of char 1 of a data grid table cell to an icon
> ID. Has anyone succeeded in doing this? If so, could you post your code? I'm
> struggling with it.
>
> Thanks -
>
> --
> Phil Davis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
Zryip TheSlug
http://www.aslugontheroad.com



From sundown at pacifier.com  Mon Mar  7 18:32:50 2016
From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 15:32:50 -0800
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++,
	but I doubt my ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <81DAAAB7-8D01-450C-BEDF-4130508E80CE@appisle.net>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<71C7B750-8D33-47EE-A331-D1DB92E79B10@appisle.net>
	<56DCF6FB.2000007@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAC-_fWSpCFxq_dLM9Fs8sVwXvyAcej3k2WA06gWWvm6DBKcHqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<81DAAAB7-8D01-450C-BEDF-4130508E80CE@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <D9133635-A74F-4DF9-99D7-64A23BBEE481@pacifier.com>

When you mention LCB is that the widget builder they
imported Foundation for?  If it is and his main goal is
speed wouldn?t he be better off using a external since
they have better performance?

John Balgenorth


> On Mar 7, 2016, at 2:47 AM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 7 Mar 2016, at 9:37 PM, Jonathan Lynch <jonathandlynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I am trying to figure out how to link it to LiveCode, now. Thanks for this
>> pointer.
> 
> You might be able to just compile the library and then hook what you need up via LCB which would be nice. There does look to be rather heavy use of structs which would probably make a LCB implementation more complicated than an external implementation at this stage.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 




From blueback09 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 20:47:59 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 17:47:59 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <56DD2314.6070403@pdslabs.net>
References: <CA+S82Dot6BJ7=KGLjEvfLL+GF7YWZc1oK-K7a9dCm9zbGSg59A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DD2314.6070403@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DrFQ_sE_zHo3dZV+3L0b=3=-+miBAjN29FT8HncU13ayw@mail.gmail.com>

Has anybody actually built a website using Livecode, as in these examples?
http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev

I checked the code in all of these sites and, unless I'm missing something,
everyone who knows Livecode is using javascript (or is just using
templates?).
https://livecode.com/
http://activethought.net/
http://mergext.com/
http://www.fourthworld.com/index.html
http://livecodegamedeveloper.com/
http://livecodesupersite.com/
http://www.bluemangolearning.com/livecode/
http://on-rev.com/server-status/home/
https://www.fmpromigrator.com/services/php_to_livecode_service.html
http://www.gatewestcoin.com/

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 10:43 PM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:

> Templates, no. Framework, yes:
>
>     http://revigniter.com/
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
>
>
> On 3/6/16 10:11 PM, Matt Maier wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of any website templates that use Livecode? I want to set
>> up a basic file hosting/sharing thing with logins. I've got space in what
>> used to be the on-rev servers and it would be nice to continue using
>> livecode on the web like I use it on the desktop.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
> --
> Phil Davis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Mon Mar  7 20:52:14 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 17:52:14 -0800
Subject: using imageSource in datagrid tables
In-Reply-To: <CANbzFDpYC1QJWRrLNz685BieP7Z71rOs06kwjGewZN0ZJm1DSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56DDD768.9090700@pdslabs.net>
	<CANbzFDpYC1QJWRrLNz685BieP7Z71rOs06kwjGewZN0ZJm1DSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DE304E.8080600@pdslabs.net>

Thank you Zryip! This works nicely.

Phil



On 3/7/16 3:27 PM, zryip theSlug wrote:
> Phil,
>
> In the custom behavior of the column or in the custom column behavior
> of your datagrid:
>
> on FillInData pData
>     set the text of the long ID of me to pData
>     set the imageSource of char 1 of (the long id of me) to 1010
> end FillInData
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Phil Davis<revdev at pdslabs.net>  wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I want to set the imageSource of char 1 of a data grid table cell to an icon
>> ID. Has anyone succeeded in doing this? If so, could you post your code? I'm
>> struggling with it.
>>
>> Thanks -
>>
>> --
>> Phil Davis
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Mar  7 22:56:55 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 19:56:55 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82DrFQ_sE_zHo3dZV+3L0b=3=-+miBAjN29FT8HncU13ayw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82DrFQ_sE_zHo3dZV+3L0b=3=-+miBAjN29FT8HncU13ayw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DE4D87.90107@fourthworld.com>

Matt Maier wrote:
> Has anybody actually built a website using Livecode, as in these examples?
> http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev
>
> I checked the code in all of these sites and, unless I'm missing something,
> everyone who knows Livecode is using javascript (or is just using
> templates?).

JavaScript is the only language embedded in browsers, so it's no like 
anyone has a choice there.

But JavaScript is also plain text, and LiveCode is very adept at 
manipulating text.  Many of us deliver that along with HTML and CSS from 
LiveCode running on the backend.

Not for everything; static content needn't be slowed down by putting it 
into a dynamic content delivery system.  But most of us have at least 
some dynamic content and/or services made with LiveCode on our servers, 
and some of us even use LiveCode for part of our static content management.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com        http://www.FourthWorld.com



From monte at appisle.net  Mon Mar  7 23:40:03 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 15:40:03 +1100
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++,
	but I doubt my ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <D9133635-A74F-4DF9-99D7-64A23BBEE481@pacifier.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DCAA6B.6080007@pdslabs.net>
	<CAH-=WV9djsCwPw+jBk_8ZwBmVs2G1HFf6Ec8XUsKzZge4d9GjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC-_fWQkXMmhhf=eDSAfxbTD=sry-yJRwK+=T8h7kjGr=9ktMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<71C7B750-8D33-47EE-A331-D1DB92E79B10@appisle.net>
	<56DCF6FB.2000007@ahsoftware.net>
	<CAC-_fWSpCFxq_dLM9Fs8sVwXvyAcej3k2WA06gWWvm6DBKcHqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<81DAAAB7-8D01-450C-BEDF-4130508E80CE@appisle.net>
	<D9133635-A74F-4DF9-99D7-64A23BBEE481@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <9A61563B-E730-4BBB-B2C8-03EADDC88D69@appisle.net>


> On 8 Mar 2016, at 10:32 AM, JB <sundown at pacifier.com> wrote:
> 
> When you mention LCB is that the widget builder they
> imported Foundation for?

LCB is for more than just widgets

>  If it is and his main goal is
> speed wouldn?t he be better off using a external since
> they have better performance?

I?m not aware of speed comparisons. Perhaps the FFI is more of a bottleneck than the external api but it would be interesting to see the data.

Cheers

Monte

From blueback09 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  8 00:44:43 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 21:44:43 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <56DE4D87.90107@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+S82DrFQ_sE_zHo3dZV+3L0b=3=-+miBAjN29FT8HncU13ayw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DE4D87.90107@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DqjBeYQjbQGG-FKGhKpPQFWRqxxLtZigLZPXzTvoMGQgw@mail.gmail.com>

Oh. So, when you use Livecode to put "Hello world" into the browser, is it
actually sending the browser something like <p>Hello world</p> from the
server?
On Mar 7, 2016 19:57, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Matt Maier wrote:
>
>> Has anybody actually built a website using Livecode, as in these examples?
>> http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev
>>
>> I checked the code in all of these sites and, unless I'm missing
>> something,
>> everyone who knows Livecode is using javascript (or is just using
>> templates?).
>>
>
> JavaScript is the only language embedded in browsers, so it's no like
> anyone has a choice there.
>
> But JavaScript is also plain text, and LiveCode is very adept at
> manipulating text.  Many of us deliver that along with HTML and CSS from
> LiveCode running on the backend.
>
> Not for everything; static content needn't be slowed down by putting it
> into a dynamic content delivery system.  But most of us have at least some
> dynamic content and/or services made with LiveCode on our servers, and some
> of us even use LiveCode for part of our static content management.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
>  ____________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com        http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  8 00:51:44 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 23:51:44 -0600
Subject: Launcher Stack and Saving
In-Reply-To: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>
References: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56DE6870.90502@hyperactivesw.com>

You'd think it should work since you followed the lesson exactly. But 
try putting the launcher stack in use before you close it. That will 
keep its resources available. Closing a stack generally removes it from 
the message path.

On 3/7/2016 3:26 PM, Randy Hengst wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I?m working for the first time with the ?launcher? stack process to be able to save in a livecode stack.
>
> OSX 10.10.5 and LC 7.1.1
>
> I?ve followed this lesson:
> How do I save custom properties in a standalone application?
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/17375-how-do-i-save-custom-properties-in-a-standalone-application
>
> And have created a ?launch? stack and ?main? stack as outlined. So, this code is in the launcher:
> on openStack
>      open stack "Main Application.livecode"
>      close stack "Launcher"
> end openStack
>
> And, in the main stack I have this code
> on closeStack
>     save this stack
>     pass closeStack
> end closeStack
>
> The ?main? stack opens just fine?  But, I?ve run into a couple bumps for which I haven?t found an answer in the lists or forum.
>
> First, my ?answer? calls don?t work when I open the ?main? stack from the launcher. They work just fine in the IDE. Nothing appears at all. The script does run as if the ?answer? call isn?t there? no error, etc.
>
> Second, when I ?quit? the launcher the changes made to the ?main? stack are not saved. However, when I close by clicking the ?red? dot of the ?main? stack, the changes are saved.
>
> Finally, is it possible to place the ?main? stack in the OSX package rather than having the stack in the same folder as the launcher standalone?
>
> be well,
> randy
>
> Randy Hengst
> www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Tue Mar  8 02:20:06 2016
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 23:20:06 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dot6BJ7=KGLjEvfLL+GF7YWZc1oK-K7a9dCm9zbGSg59A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82Dot6BJ7=KGLjEvfLL+GF7YWZc1oK-K7a9dCm9zbGSg59A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmQfHKEve9KH_DHRRAJtgY25Vrz9QPYhgQJ-9W=Wi8UzqzFDw@mail.gmail.com>

Look into revIgniter.. a great CMS written in Livecode Server... more than
a template...

http://revigniter.com/

First and foremost, a framework for your beloved coding language
A Model-View-Controller based framework
A framework with a small footprint
Excellent performance
A framework that requires virtually zero configuration
A framework that does not require you to stick to limiting coding rules
(almost)
A clear, detailed documentation

Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 10:11 PM, Matt Maier <blueback09 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know of any website templates that use Livecode? I want to set
> up a basic file hosting/sharing thing with logins. I've got space in what
> used to be the on-rev servers and it would be nice to continue using
> livecode on the web like I use it on the desktop.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Tue Mar  8 03:33:45 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 00:33:45 -0800
Subject: another datagrid question
Message-ID: <56DE8E69.70902@pdslabs.net>

My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've 
seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But 
I'm drawing a blank.

Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's there.

The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.

Can someone please jar my memory?

Thanks -

-- 
Phil Davis




From mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com  Tue Mar  8 08:40:41 2016
From: mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com (paolo mazza)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 14:40:41 +0100
Subject: Playing movies
In-Reply-To: <8FF07F57-8402-4542-8C00-F6CEFA48F5B8@earthednet.org>
References: <29313E98-2935-4211-B98B-043075803A83@earthednet.org>
	<1457306846497-4702077.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<8FF07F57-8402-4542-8C00-F6CEFA48F5B8@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <CA+NEnO-zgXgzz1xWRnFYKvUmSPzAq5t3See=QAt8b6Nu5SMqAA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I agree on this. Not being able to play movies in livecode  is a
severe shortcoming.
I have been asking for a new video player for years.
Then, to insert videos in my apps,  I have been using RevBrowser to
manage web pages with a flash video player .
Too bad for a multimedia developer tool as LiveCode is supposed to be.
All the best,
Paolo

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:28 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> Tom,
> Thanks. The movie is part of a slide show type presentation, so just playing it in a browser window might be best. I have done this in the past using the cref browser, but it adds a lot to the app size.
>
> Not being able to play movies in livecode, is a severe shortcoming, and I hope the player can be updated soon.
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
>
>> On Mar 6, 2016, at 3:27 PM, tbodine <bodine at bodinetraininggames.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Bill.
>>
>> Seems the whole LC community is in a state of frustration regarding this.
>>
>> But one minimal method I find works to play an online movie is to embed a
>> movie url in a LC field with the linkStyle set to "link".
>>
>> Then add to your stack a script...
>>
>> on linkClicked pLink
>> launch url pLink
>> end linkClicked
>>
>> (Fine print: linkClicked does not work except in Browse mode, the field must
>> be locked and it must have its listBehavior property set to false.)
>>
>> I don't know of a way to find out from the browser when the movie has
>> finished, so I wait for the resumeStack message to fire indicating the user
>> has returned and, presumably, the movie is done.
>>
>> If you prefer an icon to a text link, perhaps you can embed a graphic in the
>> field and link from that. (I haven't tried that, but you get extra credit if
>> you make it work!)
>>
>> HTH,
>> Tom B.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Playing-movies-tp4702069p4702077.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dunbarx at aol.com  Tue Mar  8 08:59:45 2016
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 08:59:45 -0500
Subject: another datagrid question
In-Reply-To: <56DE8E69.70902@pdslabs.net>
References: <56DE8E69.70902@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <1535686c05d-4b32-154ae@webprd-a41.mail.aol.com>

Hi.


Have you done a "dispatch resetList to group yourDG?"



-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net>
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 3:35 am
Subject: another datagrid question

My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've 
seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But 
I'm drawing a blank.

Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's there.

The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.

Can someone please jar my memory?

Thanks -

-- 
Phil Davis


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From james at thehales.id.au  Tue Mar  8 08:41:10 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 05:41:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Launcher Stack and Saving
In-Reply-To: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>
References: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1457444470009-4702110.post@n4.nabble.com>

Randy Hengst wrote
> Second, when I ?quit? the launcher the changes made to the ?main? stack
> are not saved. However, when I close by clicking the ?red? dot of the
> ?main? stack, the changes are saved. 

I have not gone through the lesson but the launcher/mainstack structure
usually implies that once the "launcher" has done its bit, the "main" stack
is the one left open. Thus to quit, you are quitting the main stack, not the
launcher. If this is the case then the "closestack" message sitting in your
main stack is only sent when the user or a handler "closes" its window. Is
this what you are doing to "quit". 
If not, perhaps you want to act on the "shutdownrequest" message
(remembering to pass it)?


> Finally, is it possible to place the ?main? stack in the OSX package
> rather than having the stack in the same folder as the launcher
> standalone?

When you build the standalone the launcher and the engine are combined into
the executable within MacOS folder within the app's package. The main stack
and other resources will also be in that folder, either as is or in any
folder structure you have constructed. Isn't that where you want them? 
They should all be in the 'package' else they won't be part of your app.

James



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Launcher-Stack-and-Saving-tp4702096p4702110.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From zryip.theslug at gmail.com  Tue Mar  8 13:35:08 2016
From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 19:35:08 +0100
Subject: another datagrid question
In-Reply-To: <56DE8E69.70902@pdslabs.net>
References: <56DE8E69.70902@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CANbzFDpwqwQweenDYmqbizDTPV-24whseR-_Bq+qXuh+-fSERw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Phil,

You can first explore how the data is split in the datagrid internal array.

1. You can use the msg box with this command:
send "PrintKeys" to grp "myDataGrid"

2. Or, if you are a DGH user, go to the DGH's properties palette ->
"Print keys" topic -> "Show data"



Best Regards,

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:
> My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've seen
> this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But I'm
> drawing a blank.
>
> Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's there.
>
> The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.
>
> Can someone please jar my memory?
>
> Thanks -
>
> --
> Phil Davis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
Zryip TheSlug
http://www.aslugontheroad.com



From revdev at pdslabs.net  Tue Mar  8 14:00:16 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 11:00:16 -0800
Subject: another datagrid question
In-Reply-To: <1535686c05d-4b32-154ae@webprd-a41.mail.aol.com>
References: <56DE8E69.70902@pdslabs.net>
	<1535686c05d-4b32-154ae@webprd-a41.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <56DF2140.4060707@pdslabs.net>

Combined responses below.


On 3/8/16 5:59 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote:
> Hi.
>
>
> Have you done a "dispatch resetList to group yourDG?"
>
>
>
Thanks Craig. I tried this and saw no change to what was displayed.



On 3/8/16 10:35 AM, zryip theSlug wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> You can first explore how the data is split in the datagrid internal array.
>
> 1. You can use the msg box with this command:
> send "PrintKeys" to grp "myDataGrid"
>
> 2. Or, if you are a DGH user, go to the DGH's properties palette ->
> "Print keys" topic -> "Show data"
>
Nice - I had never used PrintKeys before. What I see is this: While my 
undisplayed column data is consistently included in the PrintKeys 
output, there are other columns that are included only under certain 
circumstances. I suppose I should make my data always have the same 
number of columns per record - seems like I remember something about 
that being an issue in the past but I could be wrong. Will give it a try 
anyway.

Thanks guys -
Phil


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 3:35 am
> Subject: another datagrid question
>
> My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've
> seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But
> I'm drawing a blank.
>
> Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's there.
>
> The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.
>
> Can someone please jar my memory?
>
> Thanks -
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From revdev at pdslabs.net  Tue Mar  8 14:25:41 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 11:25:41 -0800
Subject: another datagrid question
In-Reply-To: <56DF2140.4060707@pdslabs.net>
References: <56DE8E69.70902@pdslabs.net>
	<1535686c05d-4b32-154ae@webprd-a41.mail.aol.com>
	<56DF2140.4060707@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <56DF2735.4080303@pdslabs.net>

My "make all lines have the same columns" idea brought no change to what 
is displayed. I use a custom column behavior in this DG, so I'll see how 
I can simplify my data & code.

Thanks -
Phil


On 3/8/16 11:00 AM, Phil Davis wrote:
> Combined responses below.
>
>
> On 3/8/16 5:59 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>>
>> Have you done a "dispatch resetList to group yourDG?"
>>
>>
>>
> Thanks Craig. I tried this and saw no change to what was displayed.
>
>
>
> On 3/8/16 10:35 AM, zryip theSlug wrote:
>> Hi Phil,
>>
>> You can first explore how the data is split in the datagrid internal 
>> array.
>>
>> 1. You can use the msg box with this command:
>> send "PrintKeys" to grp "myDataGrid"
>>
>> 2. Or, if you are a DGH user, go to the DGH's properties palette ->
>> "Print keys" topic -> "Show data"
>>
> Nice - I had never used PrintKeys before. What I see is this: While my 
> undisplayed column data is consistently included in the PrintKeys 
> output, there are other columns that are included only under certain 
> circumstances. I suppose I should make my data always have the same 
> number of columns per record - seems like I remember something about 
> that being an issue in the past but I could be wrong. Will give it a 
> try anyway.
>
> Thanks guys -
> Phil
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net>
>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 3:35 am
>> Subject: another datagrid question
>>
>> My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've
>> seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But
>> I'm drawing a blank.
>>
>> Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's 
>> there.
>>
>> The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.
>>
>> Can someone please jar my memory?
>>
>> Thanks -
>>
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From revdev at pdslabs.net  Tue Mar  8 14:51:27 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 11:51:27 -0800
Subject: another datagrid question
In-Reply-To: <56DF2735.4080303@pdslabs.net>
References: <56DE8E69.70902@pdslabs.net>
	<1535686c05d-4b32-154ae@webprd-a41.mail.aol.com>
	<56DF2140.4060707@pdslabs.net> <56DF2735.4080303@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <56DF2D3F.9060800@pdslabs.net>

My remedy:
After copying my code from the script of my problem data grid, I deleted 
it and created a new one in its place. I added my code back in and it's 
working!

Thanks -
Phil


On 3/8/16 11:25 AM, Phil Davis wrote:
> My "make all lines have the same columns" idea brought no change to 
> what is displayed. I use a custom column behavior in this DG, so I'll 
> see how I can simplify my data & code.
>
> Thanks -
> Phil
>
>
> On 3/8/16 11:00 AM, Phil Davis wrote:
>> Combined responses below.
>>
>>
>> On 3/8/16 5:59 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you done a "dispatch resetList to group yourDG?"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks Craig. I tried this and saw no change to what was displayed.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/8/16 10:35 AM, zryip theSlug wrote:
>>> Hi Phil,
>>>
>>> You can first explore how the data is split in the datagrid internal 
>>> array.
>>>
>>> 1. You can use the msg box with this command:
>>> send "PrintKeys" to grp "myDataGrid"
>>>
>>> 2. Or, if you are a DGH user, go to the DGH's properties palette ->
>>> "Print keys" topic -> "Show data"
>>>
>> Nice - I had never used PrintKeys before. What I see is this: While 
>> my undisplayed column data is consistently included in the PrintKeys 
>> output, there are other columns that are included only under certain 
>> circumstances. I suppose I should make my data always have the same 
>> number of columns per record - seems like I remember something about 
>> that being an issue in the past but I could be wrong. Will give it a 
>> try anyway.
>>
>> Thanks guys -
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net>
>>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 3:35 am
>>> Subject: another datagrid question
>>>
>>> My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've
>>> seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But
>>> I'm drawing a blank.
>>>
>>> Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's 
>>> there.
>>>
>>> The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.
>>>
>>> Can someone please jar my memory?
>>>
>>> Thanks -
>>>
>>
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  8 14:52:55 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 11:52:55 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82DqjBeYQjbQGG-FKGhKpPQFWRqxxLtZigLZPXzTvoMGQgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82DqjBeYQjbQGG-FKGhKpPQFWRqxxLtZigLZPXzTvoMGQgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DF2D97.8010308@fourthworld.com>

Matt Maier wrote:
 > Oh. So, when you use Livecode to put "Hello world" into the browser,
 > is it actually sending the browser something like <p>Hello world</p>
 > from the server?

Yep.  That's the secret charm of web development:  HTML defines what's 
in a page, CSS defines how it looks, JavaScript defines how you can 
interact with it - and all three are just plain text.

"View Page Source" is the greatest feature ever, and every browser has 
it.  With that and a little time, even the coolest web sites become 
demystified.

With a text processing toolkit like LiveCode's chunk expressions, 
coupled with everything else it does from image manipulation to socket 
handling and more, the range of ways LiveCode can contribute to web 
development is limited only by the imagination.

You can generate pages locally and upload 'em securely and efficiently 
with rsync, or use a server-side CGI to accept input from the user to 
fill in custom templates with merge, or create custom images from user 
input, or access databases, or mashup content from multiple web sources, 
or index chunks of the Internet, or build intranet resources for your 
organization, or admin all your servers from one place, or make a 
dashboard for your boss, or monitor forum activity, or write a blog, or 
sync content between your phone and laptop, or....

And if you use LiveCode for the client also, you can multiply the number 
of things you can do over HTTP by at least two, and get them done in a 
fraction of the time. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From iowahengst at mac.com  Tue Mar  8 15:17:09 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 14:17:09 -0600
Subject: Launcher Stack and Saving
In-Reply-To: <1457444470009-4702110.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>
	<1457444470009-4702110.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <29CF9EBC-CCD1-4F82-B638-705F0E16C847@mac.com>

Jacque and James,

Thank you for the tips? yes, I do want the main stack to be in the package? I placed it in the same folder simply because of the instructions in the lesson I referenced? when I first tried to include the main stack, I didn?t select ?resources? as the destination folder? all is good on that front now.

And, yes, the shutdownrequest message what I was missing.

Thank you both for helping move forward.

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On Mar 8, 2016, at 7:41 AM, jameshale <james at thehales.id.au> wrote:
> 
> Randy Hengst wrote
>> Second, when I ?quit? the launcher the changes made to the ?main? stack
>> are not saved. However, when I close by clicking the ?red? dot of the
>> ?main? stack, the changes are saved. 
> 
> I have not gone through the lesson but the launcher/mainstack structure
> usually implies that once the "launcher" has done its bit, the "main" stack
> is the one left open. Thus to quit, you are quitting the main stack, not the
> launcher. If this is the case then the "closestack" message sitting in your
> main stack is only sent when the user or a handler "closes" its window. Is
> this what you are doing to "quit". 
> If not, perhaps you want to act on the "shutdownrequest" message
> (remembering to pass it)?
> 
> 
>> Finally, is it possible to place the ?main? stack in the OSX package
>> rather than having the stack in the same folder as the launcher
>> standalone?
> 
> When you build the standalone the launcher and the engine are combined into
> the executable within MacOS folder within the app's package. The main stack
> and other resources will also be in that folder, either as is or in any
> folder structure you have constructed. Isn't that where you want them? 
> They should all be in the 'package' else they won't be part of your app.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Launcher-Stack-and-Saving-tp4702096p4702110.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  8 15:28:19 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 12:28:19 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <56DF2D97.8010308@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+S82DqjBeYQjbQGG-FKGhKpPQFWRqxxLtZigLZPXzTvoMGQgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DF2D97.8010308@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>

Riiiiiiiight...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css, or
javascript, correct? So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its own
output, which maintains the mystery.

There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I see
actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com examples don't
actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there are the isolated
Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to the browser in html.

When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop standalone
or the new HTML5 standalone?

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> Matt Maier wrote:
> > Oh. So, when you use Livecode to put "Hello world" into the browser,
> > is it actually sending the browser something like <p>Hello world</p>
> > from the server?
>
> Yep.  That's the secret charm of web development:  HTML defines what's in
> a page, CSS defines how it looks, JavaScript defines how you can interact
> with it - and all three are just plain text.
>
> "View Page Source" is the greatest feature ever, and every browser has
> it.  With that and a little time, even the coolest web sites become
> demystified.
>
> With a text processing toolkit like LiveCode's chunk expressions, coupled
> with everything else it does from image manipulation to socket handling and
> more, the range of ways LiveCode can contribute to web development is
> limited only by the imagination.
>
> You can generate pages locally and upload 'em securely and efficiently
> with rsync, or use a server-side CGI to accept input from the user to fill
> in custom templates with merge, or create custom images from user input, or
> access databases, or mashup content from multiple web sources, or index
> chunks of the Internet, or build intranet resources for your organization,
> or admin all your servers from one place, or make a dashboard for your
> boss, or monitor forum activity, or write a blog, or sync content between
> your phone and laptop, or....
>
> And if you use LiveCode for the client also, you can multiply the number
> of things you can do over HTTP by at least two, and get them done in a
> fraction of the time. :)
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From iowahengst at mac.com  Tue Mar  8 16:00:34 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 15:00:34 -0600
Subject: Launcher Stack and Saving
In-Reply-To: <29CF9EBC-CCD1-4F82-B638-705F0E16C847@mac.com>
References: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>
	<1457444470009-4702110.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<29CF9EBC-CCD1-4F82-B638-705F0E16C847@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5D66B65A-D760-452D-8A1D-E1B4413A3CE3@mac.com>

I spoke a bit too soon? the ?answer? dialogue still doesn?t show. I did try ?start using stack ?launcher.livecode? but no answer dialogue.

Any thoughts on what I have missed?

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On Mar 8, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Randy Hengst <iowahengst at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Jacque and James,
> 
> Thank you for the tips? yes, I do want the main stack to be in the package? I placed it in the same folder simply because of the instructions in the lesson I referenced? when I first tried to include the main stack, I didn?t select ?resources? as the destination folder? all is good on that front now.
> 
> And, yes, the shutdownrequest message what I was missing.
> 
> Thank you both for helping move forward.
> 
> be well,
> randy
> 
> Randy Hengst
> www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com
> 
> 
>> On Mar 8, 2016, at 7:41 AM, jameshale <james at thehales.id.au> wrote:
>> 
>> Randy Hengst wrote
>>> Second, when I ?quit? the launcher the changes made to the ?main? stack
>>> are not saved. However, when I close by clicking the ?red? dot of the
>>> ?main? stack, the changes are saved. 
>> 
>> I have not gone through the lesson but the launcher/mainstack structure
>> usually implies that once the "launcher" has done its bit, the "main" stack
>> is the one left open. Thus to quit, you are quitting the main stack, not the
>> launcher. If this is the case then the "closestack" message sitting in your
>> main stack is only sent when the user or a handler "closes" its window. Is
>> this what you are doing to "quit". 
>> If not, perhaps you want to act on the "shutdownrequest" message
>> (remembering to pass it)?
>> 
>> 
>>> Finally, is it possible to place the ?main? stack in the OSX package
>>> rather than having the stack in the same folder as the launcher
>>> standalone?
>> 
>> When you build the standalone the launcher and the engine are combined into
>> the executable within MacOS folder within the app's package. The main stack
>> and other resources will also be in that folder, either as is or in any
>> folder structure you have constructed. Isn't that where you want them? 
>> They should all be in the 'package' else they won't be part of your app.
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Launcher-Stack-and-Saving-tp4702096p4702110.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar  8 16:52:10 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 15:52:10 -0600
Subject: Launcher Stack and Saving
In-Reply-To: <5D66B65A-D760-452D-8A1D-E1B4413A3CE3@mac.com>
References: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>
	<1457444470009-4702110.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<29CF9EBC-CCD1-4F82-B638-705F0E16C847@mac.com>
	<5D66B65A-D760-452D-8A1D-E1B4413A3CE3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56DF498A.20101@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/8/2016 3:00 PM, Randy Hengst wrote:
> I spoke a bit too soon? the ?answer? dialogue still doesn?t show. I
> did try ?start using stack ?launcher.livecode? but no answer
> dialogue.

Is the answer dialog checked in standalone settings?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From iowahengst at mac.com  Tue Mar  8 18:34:08 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 17:34:08 -0600
Subject: Launcher Stack and Saving
In-Reply-To: <56DF498A.20101@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <C266BB15-B7B9-43D0-813F-E448AB633E34@mac.com>
	<1457444470009-4702110.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<29CF9EBC-CCD1-4F82-B638-705F0E16C847@mac.com>
	<5D66B65A-D760-452D-8A1D-E1B4413A3CE3@mac.com>
	<56DF498A.20101@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2F15B0A7-89B2-4F0E-A1E2-69EF6328CF53@mac.com>

Oh, of course!  Given that my ?main stack? was a livecode stack, I didn?t even think about that. Thank you for pointing that out.

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On Mar 8, 2016, at 3:52 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
> 
> On 3/8/2016 3:00 PM, Randy Hengst wrote:
>> I spoke a bit too soon? the ?answer? dialogue still doesn?t show. I
>> did try ?start using stack ?launcher.livecode? but no answer
>> dialogue.
> 
> Is the answer dialog checked in standalone settings?
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Mar  8 19:15:22 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 00:15:22 +0000
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82DqjBeYQjbQGG-FKGhKpPQFWRqxxLtZigLZPXzTvoMGQgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DF2D97.8010308@fourthworld.com>
	<CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DF6B1A.80508@tweedly.net>



On 08/03/2016 20:28, Matt Maier wrote:
> Riiiiiiiight...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
> Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css, or
> javascript, correct?
Correct.
>   So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its own
> output, which maintains the mystery.
Yes.

> There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I see
> actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com examples don't
> actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there are the isolated
> Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to the browser in html.
Unfortunately I don't know of any concrete examples. There may well be 
some  - sadly the Livecode samples and examples are in too many places, 
and it can be hard to track things down.

I have a number of (small-ish) websites all done with Livecode - but 
none of them is decent enough quality to want to make them public; 
however, I'd be happy to share them off--list if you want (with a 
repeated warning that I am not really happy with any of them :-)
Feel free to look at
http://melaniechmielewska.co.uk/
or
http://karenliversedge.com           (uses revIgniter)
or
http://kilmelford.com


revIgniter is a good framework - and it comes with a lot of code, 
including e.g. login / authentication samples - so there is a lot there, 
but it is a big learning curve.


> When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop standalone
> or the new HTML5 standalone?
In this case I'm sure Richard meant desktop standalone, sonce he's been 
an advocate for that for some years. I'm sure once HTML5 standalones 
become smoething we can deploy, many of  the advantages of desktop LC 
standalones will be available via that path as well.

-- Alex.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar  8 19:25:09 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 16:25:09 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DF6D65.8090302@fourthworld.com>

Matt Maier wrote:

 > Riiiiiiiight...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
 > Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css,
 > or javascript, correct? So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its
 > own output, which maintains the mystery.

True.  As with PHP, if you're seeing the code rather than the processed 
output, that means the system didn't work.

And like PHP, one of the reasons you may not see much source for 
complete sites is that many times what people write is purpose built for 
a specific site.

For example I could show you the code I use to produce the output at 
livecodejournal.com, but that setup is so specific to my own particular 
CMS preferences that it would be darn near useless for anyone else (even 
more so in that case since I don't use LC Server at all, so I have extra 
code to handle things like parsing incoming requests that LC Serve does 
automatically).

I'm with Phil on this one:  For a good look at a sophisticated system 
made with LC Server, check out Ralf Bitter's excellent framework, 
RevIgniter:
http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev


 > There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I
 > see actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com
 > examples don't actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there
 > are the isolated Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to
 > the browser in html.

There are a few examples in the community where the author has the 
output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have 
a couple of those?  Anyone here know of others?


 > When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop
 > standalone or the new HTML5 standalone?

As a general rule, I'm big on testing pre-release code but almost never 
ship anything until it goes final (a habit I picked up from the 
SuperCard for Windows days, an old joke that may make some here 
chuckle).  And I need < 6-second page load times.  So while the HTML 
export option seems to be coming along nicely, I don't expect to explore 
production solutions with it for some time.

Meanwhile, standalones are great.  Truly great.  The built-in support 
for HTTP makes so many things super-easy.  Most of the work I'm doing 
now is workgroup solutions in which the app has only enough code to 
download a small library, and that library downloads everything else, 
UI, business logic, media, data, the works.

This gives me most of the benefits that make web deployments useful: 
the client always has the most recent built, data is stored in the cloud 
so they can work from any machine and collaborate with others.

And it avoids the big downside of web development:  I don't have to 
confine my UI and feature set to fit into the constraints of a browser. 
  I can freely work with local files, the only menus in my menu bar are 
the ones my app needs, and I never have to handle the biggest nightmare 
web devs face: what happens when the user hits the Back button? (though 
in all fairness that's been somewhat mitigated by recent new event 
supported added in HTML5).

For me the best thing about using LC on both client and server is being 
able to use compressed LSON for transferring data ("LSON" is a play on 
"JSON" and "BSON", my pet name for LiveCode encoded arrays; I've found 
since I adopted that many client conversations are much simpler; 
everyone loves familiar-sounding acronyms).  Much of the work we do in 
LC is well expressed in arrays, and being able to serialize them for 
transport more simply and efficiently than any JSON library could hope 
to offer has been wonderful.

Many here have reported organizational concerns about standalone 
deployment, and I suppose if stakeholders truly need a web app they need 
a web app.

But many times they don't truly need a web app.  If there's anything 
we've learned from the Mobile Era, is that OS-native apps have a 
valuable role, able to do things far beyond what a browser can do.

For the low cost of a one-time download and installation, an 
organization can enjoy always-fresh code and cloud collaboration 
workflows, all in a UI dedicated to the task at hand.

And when those are built with LiveCode, they enjoy significant cost 
savings as well. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Mar  8 20:20:49 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 01:20:49 +0000
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <56DF6B1A.80508@tweedly.net>
References: <CA+S82DqjBeYQjbQGG-FKGhKpPQFWRqxxLtZigLZPXzTvoMGQgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DF2D97.8010308@fourthworld.com>
	<CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DF6B1A.80508@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <56DF7A71.7010404@tweedly.net>



On 09/03/2016 00:15, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> I have a number of (small-ish) websites all done with Livecode - but 
> none of them is decent enough quality to want to make them public; 
> however, I'd be happy to share them off--list if you want (with a 
> repeated warning that I am not really happy with any of them :-)
> Feel free to look at
> ...
> or
> http://kilmelford.com
>
Actually, don't look at that last one - it's stopped working, as a 
side-effect of the latest "upgrade" to on-rev servers.

I'll have to find my emails from the last time this happened, and get 
the server config fixed - so don't look at kilmelford.com for now :-)

-- Alex.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar  9 13:22:55 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 12:22:55 -0600
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <56DF6D65.8090302@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DF6D65.8090302@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56E069FF.8030409@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/8/2016 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> There are a few examples in the community where the author has the
> output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have
> a couple of those?

I have a (dated) example here:
<http://jacque.on-rev.com/zygodemo/getkey.irev>

It still uses the "rev" designation but would work fine with "lc" 
instead. It does refer to a CGI though; the server script is partly LC 
server stuff and partly refers to a custom LC CGI in the cgi-bin directory.

There's another one here:
<http://jacque.on-rev.com/codebits/flowerscgi.irev>

That one doesn't show the actual server script, but I could post it if 
it would help. It isn't very complicated.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar  9 13:28:12 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 12:28:12 -0600
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <56E069FF.8030409@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DF6D65.8090302@fourthworld.com> <56E069FF.8030409@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56E06B3C.20603@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/9/2016 12:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/8/2016 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> There are a few examples in the community where the author has the
>> output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have
>> a couple of those?
>
> I have a (dated) example here:
> <http://jacque.on-rev.com/zygodemo/getkey.irev>
>
> It still uses the "rev" designation but would work fine with "lc"
> instead. It does refer to a CGI though; the server script is partly LC
> server stuff and partly refers to a custom LC CGI in the cgi-bin directory.
>
> There's another one here:
> <http://jacque.on-rev.com/codebits/flowerscgi.irev>
>
> That one doesn't show the actual server script, but I could post it if
> it would help. It isn't very complicated.
>

Oh, here's another one:
<http://jacque.on-rev.com/codebits/madlibs.irev>

Same deal, the scripts don't show but are available if you want them. 
Easy stuff.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  9 14:48:05 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 11:48:05 -0800
Subject: livecode website templates
In-Reply-To: <56E06B3C.20603@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+S82Dq5AdP0=hYWGvBO38yRZ+d2UyC=Msa-Xfews=gDAdPC4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<56DF6D65.8090302@fourthworld.com>
	<56E069FF.8030409@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56E06B3C.20603@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DoB5rJaNE5EuR-XNxwEvYNuudHLggS3DtVZQFmtHVj85A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. Yeah, I think I can imagine what the script would be for that mad
libs example.

Richard's subtle cajoling reminded me of all the stuff I could just
implement in the desktop client I already have instead of starting from
scratch with web scripting.
On Mar 9, 2016 10:28 AM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> On 3/9/2016 12:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2016 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> There are a few examples in the community where the author has the
>>> output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have
>>> a couple of those?
>>>
>>
>> I have a (dated) example here:
>> <http://jacque.on-rev.com/zygodemo/getkey.irev>
>>
>> It still uses the "rev" designation but would work fine with "lc"
>> instead. It does refer to a CGI though; the server script is partly LC
>> server stuff and partly refers to a custom LC CGI in the cgi-bin
>> directory.
>>
>> There's another one here:
>> <http://jacque.on-rev.com/codebits/flowerscgi.irev>
>>
>> That one doesn't show the actual server script, but I could post it if
>> it would help. It isn't very complicated.
>>
>>
> Oh, here's another one:
> <http://jacque.on-rev.com/codebits/madlibs.irev>
>
> Same deal, the scripts don't show but are available if you want them. Easy
> stuff.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 00:27:39 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 21:27:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1457587659261-4702127.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Jonathan,

Back in 2005, Alex Tweedly published instructions
to use Dev-C++ (named BloodShed back then)

These are the files from 2005:
http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/alejandro/stacks/Tweedly_dll.zip

http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Sucess-compiling-Alex-Tweedly-DLL-td279650.html

I have been looking for Alex Tweedly original post from 2005
but could not find it.

Ask around in this mail list. Maybe someone keeps
a copy from 2005 Alex Tweedly original instruction
to compile Livecode externals using Dev-C++

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/I-need-to-write-an-external-for-LiveCode-in-C-but-I-doubt-my-ability-to-do-it-tp4702071p4702127.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 00:55:28 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 21:55:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I need to write an external for LiveCode in C++, but I doubt my
	ability to do it.
In-Reply-To: <1457587659261-4702127.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <CAC-_fWRy3+bmqN7QYGaVD1pPnRUs7WKXf93HWQN9eR+0M0xO-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1457587659261-4702127.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1457589328727-4702128.post@n4.nabble.com>

I found Alex Tweedly post about compiling
externals using Dev-C++ :D
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2005-June/060943.html



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/I-need-to-write-an-external-for-LiveCode-in-C-but-I-doubt-my-ability-to-do-it-tp4702071p4702128.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 10 01:59:42 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 06:59:42 +0000
Subject: Write to IPTC Core Data of Image Files?
Message-ID: <etPan.56e11b5e.1f73829f.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

I asked about this years ago...but the subject is back up here.

 We would like to engage volunteers to help classify and organize our image archives.  This comprises some 1/2 million images, not all of which are significant, but still present in the archives.

It is possible of course to build a data base and connect metadata in the SQL tables/columns to filenames etc. but what we really need to do is stay away from those kinds of external dependencies (been there, done that --> snake pit of non-portability) and write directly to the IPTC Core data of the images.

We can do this in Adobe Bridge, and I can also leverage SIPs on the Mac using shell scripts from LIvecode. But what I really need is a web based solution that will run on LInux/Ubuntu.  Any ideas? Marks Smith's old ID3 tags script, still works even today, and this was a native LC solution (no external)  has anyone got ideas for doing this for images/IPTC data?  once images are tagged with robust IPTC metadata, then we can do anything with them from there and it's all portable...

BR





From mark at livecode.com  Thu Mar 10 03:24:28 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 09:24:28 +0100
Subject: Write to IPTC Core Data of Image =?UTF-8?Q?Files=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e11b5e.1f73829f.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56e11b5e.1f73829f.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <b4b3ddea1cec0cfee7f6b0fcc248c9de@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-10 07:59, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> We can do this in Adobe Bridge, and I can also leverage SIPs on the
> Mac using shell scripts from LIvecode. But what I really need is a web
> based solution that will run on LInux/Ubuntu.  Any ideas? Marks
> Smith's old ID3 tags script, still works even today, and this was a
> native LC solution (no external)  has anyone got ideas for doing this
> for images/IPTC data?  once images are tagged with robust IPTC
> metadata, then we can do anything with them from there and it's all
> portable...

There's a command line tool exiv2 which is cross-platform which would do 
the job in the first instance. The actual data for IPTC (and XMP) are 
'applications of XML' (meaning they are just XML!) so you could 
construct the XML in LiveCode then use shell() to call exiv2 to embed it 
the image file (see http://exiv2.org and 
http://www.exiv2.org/manpage.html).

It would be more than possible to write a LiveCode Script library which 
extracts and embeds such things into image files - helpfully the process 
to do so has already been mapped out by the exiv2 project (e.g. 
http://dev.exiv2.org/projects/exiv2/wiki/The_Metadata_in_JPEG_files) - 
although that will require a fair bit of 'bit bashing' to do.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From cowhead at mac.com  Thu Mar 10 12:22:11 2016
From: cowhead at mac.com (Mark Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 02:22:11 +0900
Subject: Thanks to Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1457348402.7965.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1457348402.7965.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2471E453-4A21-48D5-AECD-8A4892DE05B4@mac.com>

OMG!  I?ve done this for 20 years and this never ever occurred to me! What an elegant solution!  I?ve always been able to work around it in other ways, but nice one Dr. Hawkins!

> On Mar 7, 2016, at 8:00 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> By counting down instead of up, you can delete the button without messing
> with your loop, if that is indeed what you want to do based upon the tests
> in do stuff
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.




From dochawk at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 12:27:53 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 09:27:53 -0800
Subject: Thanks to Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
In-Reply-To: <2471E453-4A21-48D5-AECD-8A4892DE05B4@mac.com>
References: <mailman.1.1457348402.7965.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<2471E453-4A21-48D5-AECD-8A4892DE05B4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSEH1So_LsLw3pPQE+--9N28nwzX9A+Qi_OShPFWRJYL5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Mark Mitchell <cowhead at mac.com> wrote:

> OMG!  I?ve done this for 20 years and this never ever occurred to me! What
> an elegant solution!  I?ve always been able to work around it in other
> ways, but nice one Dr. Hawkins!
>

Thanks.

It took a few deletions of things I meant to keep, and head scratching,
before that lightbulb lit up . . .


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From steven.crighton at livecode.com  Thu Mar 10 12:34:17 2016
From: steven.crighton at livecode.com (steven.crighton at livecode.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:34:17 +0100
Subject: [Blog] Better theming in LiveCode 8
Message-ID: <9a7aab82a0db5a94ed60f3760c269ee7@livecode.com>

Dear List Members

Fraser has posted to the LiveCode blog talking about the improved 
theming in LiveCode 8.

"LiveCode uses each platform?s theming libraries (where available) to 
ensure that applications look as close as possible to native 
applications. Over time, however, the appearance that LiveCode provides 
and that of native applications have moved apart. In LiveCode 8, we have 
performed a lot of work in bringing LiveCode back to parity with native 
applications and to ensure it stays there, even when they change in 
future."

Here is a link to the blog post.

https://livecode.com/better-theming-in-livecode-8/

Enjoy.

Steven



From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 10 12:38:20 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 17:38:20 +0000
Subject: Write to IPTC Core Data of Image Files?
In-Reply-To: <b4b3ddea1cec0cfee7f6b0fcc248c9de@livecode.com>
References: <etPan.56e11b5e.1f73829f.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<b4b3ddea1cec0cfee7f6b0fcc248c9de@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56e1b10b.41d8bf13.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Mark, thanks for the lead.
A bit out of my depth but It
will keep the little gray cells green
to get this working.



On March 9, 2016 at 10:24:47 PM, Mark Waddingham (mark at livecode.com<mailto:mark at livecode.com>) wrote:

There's a command line tool exiv2 which is cross-platform which would do
the job in the first instance. The actual data for IPTC (and XMP) are
'applications of XML' (meaning they are just XML!) so you could
construct the XML in LiveCode then use shell() to call exiv2 to embed it
the image file (see http://exiv2.org and
http://www.exiv2.org/manpage.html).

It would be more than possible to write a LiveCode Script library which
extracts and embeds such things into image files - helpfully the process
to do so has already been mapped out by the exiv2 project (e.g.
http://dev.exiv2.org/projects/exiv2/wiki/The_Metadata_in_JPEG_files) -
although that will require a fair bit of 'bit bashing' to do.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

From dunbarx at aol.com  Thu Mar 10 13:13:03 2016
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 13:13:03 -0500
Subject: Thanks to Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
In-Reply-To: <2471E453-4A21-48D5-AECD-8A4892DE05B4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>

Try this when you have a moment. Step through if you have a little more time than that. The issue is the way God made the integers.



on mouseUp
   put "a,b,c,d,e,f,g" into temp
   repeat with y = 1 to the number of items of temp --This line matters
      if item y of temp is in "cde" then delete item y of temp
   end repeat
   answer temp
end mouseUp



on mouseUp
   put "a,b,c,d,e,f,g" into temp
   repeat with y = the number of items of temp down to 1
      if item y of temp is in "cde" then delete item y of temp
   end repeat
   answer temp
end mouseUp


Craig Newman







-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Mitchell <cowhead at mac.com>
To: use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 10, 2016 12:24 pm
Subject: Thanks to Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.

OMG!  I?ve done this for 20 years and this never ever occurred to me! What an elegant solution!  I?ve always been able to work around it in other ways, but nice one Dr. Hawkins!> On Mar 7, 2016, at 8:00 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:> > By counting down instead of up, you can delete the button without messing> with your loop, if that is indeed what you want to do based upon the tests> in do stuff> -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq._______________________________________________use-livecode mailing listuse-livecode at lists.runrev.comPlease visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Mar 10 13:43:15 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 10:43:15 -0800
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
Message-ID: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Happy to announce a major new update of my tmControl2 iOS control set for
LiveCode with tons of fixes and lots of new features. A limited time
discount is available for new and existing customers.

Get the full details here:
http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/10/announcement-tmcontrol2-v2-2/


Best Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design






From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Thu Mar 10 13:32:39 2016
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:32:39 +0000
Subject: Write to IPTC Core Data of Image Files?
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e11b5e.1f73829f.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56e11b5e.1f73829f.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56E1BDC7.9080204@cogapp.com>

On 10/03/2016 06:59, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> I asked about this years ago...but the subject is back up here.
>
>   We would like to engage volunteers to help classify and organize our image archives.  This comprises some 1/2 million images, not all of which are significant, but still present in the archives.
>
> It is possible of course to build a data base and connect metadata in the SQL tables/columns to filenames etc. but what we really need to do is stay away from those kinds of external dependencies (been there, done that --> snake pit of non-portability) and write directly to the IPTC Core data of the images.
>
> We can do this in Adobe Bridge, and I can also leverage SIPs on the Mac using shell scripts from LIvecode. But what I really need is a web based solution that will run on LInux/Ubuntu.  Any ideas? Marks Smith's old ID3 tags script, still works even today, and this was a native LC solution (no external)  has anyone got ideas for doing this for images/IPTC data?  once images are tagged with robust IPTC metadata, then we can do anything with them from there and it's all portable...
>
> BR

This isn't directly helpful, but related information; when we needed to do 
this for a client some years ago, we originally planned to do IPTC and XMP, 
using the command line ExifTool.  However, we found interesting variations in 
what could be ready by which applications.  In the end (the bit that makes it 
particularly unhelpful since you want to run it on Linux) we found that the 
best solution, ungainly thought it was, was to have our Rev app (as it was 
then) direct GraphicConvertor through AppleScript to set the IPTC fields. That 
produced the most reliably readable results.  As far as I know, the client is 
still using this tool in their workflow.

Checking my email archives, I find that that this was in 2008... so things may 
have changed since then! But I would strongly suggest that you test a variety 
of methods for setting the data, seeing how it can be read back in a variety 
of apps.

other BR






From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Mar 10 14:06:59 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 14:06:59 -0500
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNf2OhNgXWhLx3hTroj-9rQjkusaB8ChJwqRW229Tb0Jg@mail.gmail.com>

Just the snapshots and new icon fonts and handling make this a great
update.  The rest of it is awesome sauce.

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> Happy to announce a major new update of my tmControl2 iOS control set for
> LiveCode with tons of fixes and lots of new features. A limited time
> discount is available for new and existing customers.
>
> Get the full details here:
> http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/10/announcement-tmcontrol2-v2-2/
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From skiplondon at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 14:28:34 2016
From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 14:28:34 -0500
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <A05354B5-9773-4938-BC5C-5A8025BF5010@gmail.com>

I am very excited for this release.  Thank you for your continued work on this awesome product!

SKIP

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> 
> Happy to announce a major new update of my tmControl2 iOS control set for
> LiveCode with tons of fixes and lots of new features. A limited time
> discount is available for new and existing customers.
> 
> Get the full details here:
> http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/10/announcement-tmcontrol2-v2-2/
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 10 19:15:02 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 16:15:02 -0800
Subject: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment
Message-ID: <56E20E06.2000503@fourthworld.com>

I ran a poll on LC Server use in the LiveCode group on Facebook and 
found the results interesting, so I decided to open it up to a larger 
sample by putting it in the forums:

How do you use LiveCode Server?
<http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26772>

An even if you don't use LC Server, there's an option for that (two 
actually).

Thanks in advance for your click to help us better understand how LC 
Server is currently deployed.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From irog at mac.com  Thu Mar 10 20:26:25 2016
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:26:25 -0700
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
References: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>

Sorry if I missed this in prior posts, but what happened to the Look and Feel option in the View menu? Isn?t this a serious omission?


Thanks,

Roger

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 04:23:57 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:23:57 +0200
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
References: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56E28EAD.9040803@gmail.com>

That does seem a bit odd given the latest stuff about theming.

Richmond.

On 11.03.2016 03:26, Roger Guay wrote:
> Sorry if I missed this in prior posts, but what happened to the Look and Feel option in the View menu? Isn?t this a serious omission?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roger
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Fri Mar 11 04:39:26 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 09:39:26 +0000
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
References: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com>

On 11/03/2016 01:26, Roger Guay wrote:
> Sorry if I missed this in prior posts, but what happened to the Look
> and Feel option in the View menu? Isn?t this a serious omission?

The "Look and Feel" options were removed from the menu bar, because it's
technically impossible to make them work the way that users would
naively expect them to work.

Specifically, LiveCode 8 uses a "native" theme by default.  This
requires platform-specific libraries to be available (for example, the
OS X button is actually *drawn* by OS X, not by LiveCode, when you use
the "native" theme).  OS X theming APIs are not available on Linux, and
Windows theming APIs are not available on OS X, and so on.

Enabling an OS X look and feel on Linux cannot result in the stack
looking the way it would if you were running it on OS X.

You can still set the look and feel from the message box or script.

                                   Peter



-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 11 09:49:34 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 06:49:34 -0800
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote:

> On 11/03/2016 01:26, Roger Guay wrote:
>> Sorry if I missed this in prior posts, but what happened to the Look
>> and Feel option in the View menu? Isn?t this a serious omission?
>
> The "Look and Feel" options were removed from the menu bar, because it's
> technically impossible to make them work the way that users would
> naively expect them to work.
>
> Specifically, LiveCode 8 uses a "native" theme by default.  This
> requires platform-specific libraries to be available (for example, the
> OS X button is actually *drawn* by OS X, not by LiveCode, when you use
> the "native" theme).  OS X theming APIs are not available on Linux, and
> Windows theming APIs are not available on OS X, and so on.
>
> Enabling an OS X look and feel on Linux cannot result in the stack
> looking the way it would if you were running it on OS X.
>
> You can still set the look and feel from the message box or script.

I have to admit that as fun as the lookAndFeel property was for mocking 
up a NeXT-style menu palette once, in all the years I've been using LC 
I've never used that global property in anything I ship to end-users. 
Most folks just want their app to look like everything else on their 
system, and providing an alien-looking appearance just confuses them.

That said, it is sometimes fun to remember what ancient OSes looked like 
(the emulated options are all for things no longer in common use: 
Windows 95, Mac Classic, and Motif), so I just made this plugin -- 
public domain for anyone who wants it:

<http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_LookandFeel.livecode>


Q for Peter: will Widgets like the On/Off toggle be updated to use 
OS-native appearances on OS X and Android?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Fri Mar 11 10:06:48 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:06:48 +0000
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>

On 11/03/2016 14:49, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Q for Peter: will Widgets like the On/Off toggle be updated to use
> OS-native appearances on OS X and Android?

Sort of.

Ali and I have spent the last week and a half working on *all* of the 
core widgets to bring them up to the standard that we feel is 
appropriate for shipping in LiveCode 8, and you'll hear more about that 
in the next few days, hopefully.

All of them have major changes to their appearance, properties and 
behaviour.

                                      Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From irog at mac.com  Fri Mar 11 10:27:46 2016
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 08:27:46 -0700
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com>
References: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
	<56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <788505D2-C84D-4608-989D-C04A7B90BED4@mac.com>

That makes sense. Thanks, Peter.


> On Mar 11, 2016, at 2:39 AM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 11/03/2016 01:26, Roger Guay wrote:
>> Sorry if I missed this in prior posts, but what happened to the Look
>> and Feel option in the View menu? Isn?t this a serious omission?
> 
> The "Look and Feel" options were removed from the menu bar, because it's
> technically impossible to make them work the way that users would
> naively expect them to work.
> 
> Specifically, LiveCode 8 uses a "native" theme by default.  This
> requires platform-specific libraries to be available (for example, the
> OS X button is actually *drawn* by OS X, not by LiveCode, when you use
> the "native" theme).  OS X theming APIs are not available on Linux, and
> Windows theming APIs are not available on OS X, and so on.
> 
> Enabling an OS X look and feel on Linux cannot result in the stack
> looking the way it would if you were running it on OS X.
> 
> You can still set the look and feel from the message box or script.
> 
>                                  Peter
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From irog at mac.com  Fri Mar 11 11:03:56 2016
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 09:03:56 -0700
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <AD1D9208-7A41-4158-B77D-77739799118E@mac.com>

I didn?t even know it was a property! I never used it as a delivery mechanism, but rather as an early or preliminary detection/indication in developing for other platforms. Thanks for the plugin in, Richard.

Cheers,

Roger


> On Mar 11, 2016, at 7:49 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> I have to admit that as fun as the lookAndFeel property was for mocking up a NeXT-style menu palette once, in all the years I've been using LC I've never used that global property in anything I ship to end-users. Most folks just want their app to look like everything else on their system, and providing an alien-looking appearance just confuses them.
> 
> That said, it is sometimes fun to remember what ancient OSes looked like (the emulated options are all for things no longer in common use: Windows 95, Mac Classic, and Motif), so I just made this plugin -- public domain for anyone who wants it:
> 
> <http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_LookandFeel.livecode <http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_LookandFeel.livecode>>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 11 11:41:34 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 08:41:34 -0800
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <AD1D9208-7A41-4158-B77D-77739799118E@mac.com>
References: <AD1D9208-7A41-4158-B77D-77739799118E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56E2F53E.9020003@fourthworld.com>

Roger Guay wrote:

 > I didn?t even know it was a property! I never used it as a delivery
 > mechanism, but rather as an early or preliminary detection/indication
 > in developing for other platforms. Thanks for the plugin in, Richard.

I hope you enjoy it, but I would caution against using the lookAndFeel 
for anything other than nostalgia:  for many years the appearances it 
emulates bared ever less resemblance to their modern counterparts, and 
with modern OS X, Windows 8.1 through 10, and the wonderful Gnome Shell, 
Unity, and KDE desktops for Linux, nothing in the modern world bears any 
resemblance to the yesteryear appearances emulated with LC's lookAndFeel 
property.

In fact, I think that for everything from font metrics to control shapes 
you'll find greater consistency among the native themes for all three 
desktop platforms than between any of them and any of the older emulated 
appearances.

But -

If you're looking to provide something that looks like NeXT, making 
everything gun-metal gray and setting the lookAndFeel to Motif does a 
pretty good job. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From irog at mac.com  Fri Mar 11 12:33:46 2016
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:33:46 -0700
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E2F53E.9020003@fourthworld.com>
References: <AD1D9208-7A41-4158-B77D-77739799118E@mac.com>
	<56E2F53E.9020003@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EB432D8B-7322-493B-8654-6B9B914FE3A0@mac.com>

Thanks for this clear warning. It will help!

Cheers,
Roger

> On Mar 11, 2016, at 9:41 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> In fact, I think that for everything from font metrics to control shapes you'll find greater consistency among the native themes for all three desktop platforms than between any of them and any of the older emulated appearances.
> 



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 12:56:45 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 19:56:45 +0200
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56E306DD.2060209@gmail.com>



On 11.03.2016 16:49, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
>> On 11/03/2016 01:26, Roger Guay wrote:
>>> Sorry if I missed this in prior posts, but what happened to the Look
>>> and Feel option in the View menu? Isn?t this a serious omission?
>>
>> The "Look and Feel" options were removed from the menu bar, because it's
>> technically impossible to make them work the way that users would
>> naively expect them to work.
>>
>> Specifically, LiveCode 8 uses a "native" theme by default.  This
>> requires platform-specific libraries to be available (for example, the
>> OS X button is actually *drawn* by OS X, not by LiveCode, when you use
>> the "native" theme).  OS X theming APIs are not available on Linux, and
>> Windows theming APIs are not available on OS X, and so on.
>>
>> Enabling an OS X look and feel on Linux cannot result in the stack
>> looking the way it would if you were running it on OS X.
>>
>> You can still set the look and feel from the message box or script.
>
> I have to admit that as fun as the lookAndFeel property was for 
> mocking up a NeXT-style menu palette once, in all the years I've been 
> using LC I've never used that global property in anything I ship to 
> end-users. Most folks just want their app to look like everything else 
> on their system, and providing an alien-looking appearance just 
> confuses them.
>
> That said, it is sometimes fun to remember what ancient OSes looked 
> like (the emulated options are all for things no longer in common use: 
> Windows 95, Mac Classic, and Motif), so I just made this plugin -- 
> public domain for anyone who wants it:
>
> <http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_LookandFeel.livecode>

Great! Thanks a lot - you know me: always looking backwards!

Richmond.

>
>
> Q for Peter: will Widgets like the On/Off toggle be updated to use 
> OS-native appearances on OS X and Android?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 13:00:52 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:00:52 +0200
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E2F53E.9020003@fourthworld.com>
References: <AD1D9208-7A41-4158-B77D-77739799118E@mac.com>
	<56E2F53E.9020003@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56E307D4.9060605@gmail.com>



On 11.03.2016 18:41, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Roger Guay wrote:
>
> > I didn?t even know it was a property! I never used it as a delivery
> > mechanism, but rather as an early or preliminary detection/indication
> > in developing for other platforms. Thanks for the plugin in, Richard.
>
> I hope you enjoy it, but I would caution against using the lookAndFeel 
> for anything other than nostalgia:  for many years the appearances it 
> emulates bared ever less resemblance to their modern counterparts, and 
> with modern OS X, Windows 8.1 through 10, and the wonderful Gnome 
> Shell, Unity, and KDE desktops for Linux, nothing in the modern world 
> bears any resemblance to the yesteryear appearances emulated with LC's 
> lookAndFeel property.
>
> In fact, I think that for everything from font metrics to control 
> shapes you'll find greater consistency among the native themes for all 
> three desktop platforms than between any of them and any of the older 
> emulated appearances.
>
> But -
>
> If you're looking to provide something that looks like NeXT, making 
> everything gun-metal gray and setting the lookAndFeel to Motif does a 
> pretty good job. :)
>

I wouldn't doubt that about 90% of people currently working with 
LiveCode are targeting
NeXT: although, personally, I'm targeting LaST.

No; lookAndFeel have had their day; if ever they had a day at all.

I have always developed stuff to look exactly the same regardless of 
which operating
system it has been deployed to: life seems far too short to quibble 
about the passing
show of operating systems' GUIs.

Richmond.



From irog at mac.com  Fri Mar 11 13:36:08 2016
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:36:08 -0700
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E307D4.9060605@gmail.com>
References: <AD1D9208-7A41-4158-B77D-77739799118E@mac.com>
	<56E2F53E.9020003@fourthworld.com> <56E307D4.9060605@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <748B0541-307F-4C47-BA9F-42731F70D60C@mac.com>

Me too, but I certainly understand the need and desire to do the native thing. 


> On Mar 11, 2016, at 11:00 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have always developed stuff to look exactly the same regardless of which operating
> system it has been deployed to: life seems far too short to quibble about the passing
> show of operating systems' GUIs.
> 



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Mar 11 14:24:15 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:24:15 -0800
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <D3085576.7BDCE%scott@tactilemedia.com>

As a followup to yesterday's announcement, I'm happy to report that the
guide app included in the tmControl2 package is now available in the
iTunes App Store.

Called tmGuide, the app demonstrates the use of each control, and the
output (if any) each control returns.  For those looking to see what's
included in the tmControl collection, this is a good working example.

 tmGuide won't show up on search results yet (it was accepted only today),
but you can access it for free on your iPhone or in iTunes here:
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tmguide/id1089298137?mt=8>

(tmGuide was tested primarily on iPhone 5 so I'm not sure how it will
display on a 6/6plus.)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/10/16, 10:43 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

>Happy to announce a major new update of my tmControl2 iOS control set for
>LiveCode with tons of fixes and lots of new features. A limited time
>discount is available for new and existing customers.
>
>Get the full details here:
>http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/10/announcement-tmcontrol2-v2-2/
>





From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 14:36:49 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 19:36:49 +0000
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <D3085576.7BDCE%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<D3085576.7BDCE%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV_SnU+rPm2ZDPH1tH2eggMn0GKU-CM4_v41Me5TaDQSMw@mail.gmail.com>

For all such really good stuff Windows and Android users are always
forgotten. Sigh.

Roland


From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Mar 11 14:53:57 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 19:53:57 +0000
Subject: Write to IPTC Core Data of Image Files?
In-Reply-To: <56E1BDC7.9080204@cogapp.com>
References: <etPan.56e11b5e.1f73829f.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E1BDC7.9080204@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56e32254.1ad138b2.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

@ Other BR :-)


 However, we found interesting variations in
what could be ready by which applications. I

ExifTool looks good, very doable to drive from LC scripts.

Years ago we were using some proprietary web slideshow framework and I recall there was some discrepancy about where that framework thought a "caption" should go/could be found... as there is no such designated field as such in the IPTC spec: for very good reason: "Caption" is too broad and could be a container for one or more metadata depending on the use case: are you exposing a description only? the description plus photographer? A "label/title" plus a description? the filename?  date? etc... all could be placed in a container called "caption" in any given presentation layer context.. yes, it turned out to be a little can of worms once you got in.

My target fields are, initially, the IPTC "Description" and "Keywords" as they appear in Bridge. Where those among the "wandering-where-is-it metadata" that you found-could-not-be-read  previously?

Kauai BR

related OT: Mark Smith's ID3 tags script still works on Linux a loooong time after he moved on to the land of our ancestors, in case anyone is interested in tagging audio on the server.





On March 10, 2016 at 8:47:23 AM, Ben Rubinstein (benr_mc at cogapp.com<mailto:benr_mc at cogapp.com>) wrote:

This isn't directly helpful, but related information; when we needed to do
this for a client some years ago, we originally planned to do IPTC and XMP,
using the command line ExifTool. However, we found interesting variations in
what could be ready by which applications. In the end (the bit that makes it
particularly unhelpful since you want to run it on Linux) we found that the
best solution, ungainly thought it was, was to have our Rev app (as it was
then) direct GraphicConvertor through AppleScript to set the IPTC fields. That
produced the most reliably readable results. As far as I know, the client is
still using this tool in their workflow.

Checking my email archives, I find that that this was in 2008... so things may
have changed since then! But I would strongly suggest that you test a variety
of methods for setting the data, seeing how it can be read back in a variety
of apps.

other BR

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Mar 11 14:54:28 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:54:28 -0800
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV_SnU+rPm2ZDPH1tH2eggMn0GKU-CM4_v41Me5TaDQSMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<D3085576.7BDCE%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<CAH-=WV_SnU+rPm2ZDPH1tH2eggMn0GKU-CM4_v41Me5TaDQSMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E32274.8010800@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/11/2016 11:36 AM, Roland Huettmann wrote:
> For all such really good stuff Windows and Android users are always
> forgotten. Sigh.

Oh, that Scott Rossi is such a slacker.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ebeugelaar at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 14:55:53 2016
From: ebeugelaar at gmail.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:55:53 +0100
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV_SnU+rPm2ZDPH1tH2eggMn0GKU-CM4_v41Me5TaDQSMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<D3085576.7BDCE%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<CAH-=WV_SnU+rPm2ZDPH1tH2eggMn0GKU-CM4_v41Me5TaDQSMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6293c016-0e66-4901-9271-12b07dfe24af@getmailbird.com>

I really do hope LCB 8.x will be the solution to this.

Erik
On 3/11/2016 8:37:15 PM, Roland Huettmann <roland.huettmann at gmail.com> wrote:
For all such really good stuff Windows and Android users are always
forgotten. Sigh.

Roland
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Mar 11 15:20:40 2016
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:20:40 +0000
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>


> On Mar 11, 2016, at 8:06 AM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 11/03/2016 14:49, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Q for Peter: will Widgets like the On/Off toggle be updated to use
>> OS-native appearances on OS X and Android?
> 
> Sort of.
> 
> Ali and I have spent the last week and a half working on *all* of the core widgets to bring them up to the standard that we feel is appropriate for shipping in LiveCode 8, and you'll hear more about that in the next few days, hopefully.
> 
> All of them have major changes to their appearance, properties and behaviour.
> 
>                                     Peter

Peter,

I?m glad to hear this. I recently did a ?deep dive? into several of the widgets in preparation for introducing my students to widgets for mobile. I compiled a list of problems I found, including dictionary errors, problems with the property inspector, and things that weren?t quite working. I?d be happy to type them up, but they?re kind of diverse for a single bug report, or I could just email them to you. I suspect you?ve addressed some of them already.

Would this be helpful?

Devin


Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Mar 11 16:48:04 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 21:48:04 +0000
Subject: Loading Message in Browser Widget while waiting for HTML 5 to load
Message-ID: <etPan.56e33d13.6edcc933.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

?
I have some HTML 5 modules being developed using Python. Currently  

e.g.  

http://fatenation.info/Hinduism/  

Note the long delay.. of course the developer needs to provide a splash screen, OTOH I suspect this is a case we will face frequently as we go forward  

1) set some URL for card with the Browser widget on it  
2) expect some delay: card is "dead white"  

Of course first "instinct" is to go looking for a finished loading msg.

The LC8 DP15 dictionary guide on the browser widget ?has this "handle the browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL... to perform an action when a URL has finished loading

OK so we put this into the stack script:  

######## Web Browser Methods
local pURL

on setBrowserURL pCard, pURL
? ?set the URL of widget pCard of card pCard to pURL
end setBrowserURL

ON browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL pURL
?put "It is running now." into fld "currentLocation"
end browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL


And this into the button that drives the URL to the browser widget:


on mouseUp

put "http://fatenation.info/Hinduism/" into pURL
setBrowserURL "SivaBrowserLandscape", pURL
go to card "SivaBrowserLandscape"

end mouseup

But the browserDocumentLoadComplete ?is not triggered, by loading a simple HTML page

like

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/taka

But this does get sent to the stack script: with "Frame" added:

ON browserFrameDocumentLoadComplete pURL
?put "It is running now." into fld "currentLocation"
end browserFrameDocumentLoadComplete


but neither

browserDocumentLoadComplete

or

browserFrameDocumentLoadComplete

are triggered from this URL in the browser widget:

http://fatenation.info/Hinduism/

Any solutions? ?Music plays from beginning even while we wait for image content to appear. Still, no msg set to the browser widget













From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Mar 11 16:53:40 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 21:53:40 +0000
Subject: Loading Message in Browser Widget while waiting for HTML 5 to load
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e33d13.6edcc933.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56e33d13.6edcc933.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <etPan.56e33e63.776bc4ed.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Hmmm additional info

the reason that this worked:

browserFrameDocumentLoadComplete

worked was because there was in iframe on the page which loaded.  pURL was not the parent page itself, but the first child frame inside the page

browserDocumentLoadComplete

is not firing for any URL I pass to the widget.

BR



On March 11, 2016 at 11:48:04 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (brahma at hindu.org<mailto:brahma at hindu.org>) wrote:


I have some HTML 5 modules being developed using Python. Currently

e.g.

http://fatenation.info/Hinduism/

Note the long delay.. of course the developer needs to provide a splash screen, OTOH I suspect this is a case we will face frequently as we go forward

1) set some URL for card with the Browser widget on it
2) expect some delay: card is "dead white"

Of course first "instinct" is to go looking for a finished loading msg.

The LC8 DP15 dictionary guide on the browser widget  has this "handle the browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL... to perform an action when a URL has finished loading

OK so we put this into the stack script:

######## Web Browser Methods
local pURL

on setBrowserURL pCard, pURL
   set the URL of widget pCard of card pCard to pURL
end setBrowserURL

ON browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL pURL
 put "It is running now." into fld "currentLocation"
end browserDocumentLoadComplete pURL


And this into the button that drives the URL to the browser widget:


on mouseUp

put "http://fatenation.info/Hinduism/" into pURL
setBrowserURL "SivaBrowserLandscape", pURL
go to card "SivaBrowserLandscape"

end mouseup

But the browserDocumentLoadComplete  is not triggered, by loading a simple HTML page

like

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/taka

But this does get sent to the stack script: with "Frame" added:

ON browserFrameDocumentLoadComplete pURL
 put "It is running now." into fld "currentLocation"
end browserFrameDocumentLoadComplete


but neither

browserDocumentLoadComplete

or

browserFrameDocumentLoadComplete

are triggered from this URL in the browser widget:

http://fatenation.info/Hinduism/

Any solutions?  Music plays from beginning even while we wait for image content to appear. Still, no msg set to the browser widget













From peter.brett at livecode.com  Fri Mar 11 16:55:28 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 21:55:28 +0000
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>

On 11/03/2016 20:20, Devin Asay wrote:

> Peter,
>
> I?m glad to hear this. I recently did a ?deep dive? into several of
> the widgets in preparation for introducing my students to widgets for
> mobile. I compiled a list of problems I found, including dictionary
> errors, problems with the property inspector, and things that weren?t
> quite working. I?d be happy to type them up, but they?re kind of
> diverse for a single bug report, or I could just email them to you. I
> suspect you?ve addressed some of them already.
>
> Would this be helpful?

I really encourage you to take a look again at the widgets in the next
LiveCode 8.0 DP release, and if you have some problems still showing up
I'd be very interested to hear your feedback.  Some of the widgets are 
pretty much new widgets at this point.

Bear in mind that it might be as quick for you to go in and fix the
problems as to type them up for us!

                                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Mar 11 17:00:13 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:00:13 -0800
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <D3085576.7BDCE%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<D3085576.7BDCE%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <D3087DA1.7BE4C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

OK, got a couple of responses saying that positioning is off on larger
screens which makes sense.  I really wasn?t sure if Apple would accept an
app like guide app, but wanted to try it as an experiment.  So I didn't
spend the time making sure it fit every screen, I just did a bunch of
splash screens and screenshots to appease Apple's submission requirements.
 I should have left the splash screens at one size.

As it turns out, Apple's biggest complaint was the content (which they
apparently didn't read) was more suited to a book, and should be submitted
to the Book Store (!).

An update will be forthcoming in the App Store.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/11/16, 11:24 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

>As a followup to yesterday's announcement, I'm happy to report that the
>guide app included in the tmControl2 package is now available in the
>iTunes App Store.
>
>Called tmGuide, the app demonstrates the use of each control, and the
>output (if any) each control returns.  For those looking to see what's
>included in the tmControl collection, this is a good working example.
>
> tmGuide won't show up on search results yet (it was accepted only today),
>but you can access it for free on your iPhone or in iTunes here:
><https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tmguide/id1089298137?mt=8>
>
>(tmGuide was tested primarily on iPhone 5 so I'm not sure how it will
>display on a 6/6plus.)
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi
>Creative Director
>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
>On 3/10/16, 10:43 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
><use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>
>>Happy to announce a major new update of my tmControl2 iOS control set for
>>LiveCode with tons of fixes and lots of new features. A limited time
>>discount is available for new and existing customers.
>>
>>Get the full details here:
>>http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/10/announcement-tmcontrol2-v2-2/





From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Mar 11 17:12:51 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:12:51 +0000
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

On March 11, 2016 at 11:57:25 AM, Peter TB Brett (peter.brett at livecode.com<mailto:peter.brett at livecode.com>) wrote:
I really encourage you to take a look again at the widgets in the next
LiveCode 8.0 DP release,


Will there be more robust SVG support in the current SVG widget?

We would like to make small things in Illustrator and then bring them into LC  but the SVG widget is super primitive...we need  support for more than one path.  even a simple thing like this  (see below) cannot be imported... in fact.. be careful... it will hang LC if you paste this into the widget path and fiddle with it. The SVG widget parser will choke and you may be forced to reboot LC (see http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17109)

<svg id="Layer_1" data-name="Layer 1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 117.86 108.73"><title>SivaSivaLogo2-red-white</title><rect width="117.86" height="58.93" fill="red"/><path d="M13.27,41.39a16.14,16.14,0,0,0,8.22,2.28c4.72,0,7.48-2.44,7.48-6,0-3.34-1.91-5.3-6.74-7.11-5.83-2-9.44-5.09-9.44-10.08,0-5.57,4.61-9.71,11.56-9.71a16.72,16.72,0,0,1,7.85,1.7l-1.27,3.82a13.22,13.22,0,0,0-6.74-1.7c-4.88,0-6.74,2.92-6.74,5.36,0,3.29,2.17,4.93,7.11,6.84,6,2.39,9.07,5.25,9.07,10.5,0,5.46-4,10.29-12.46,10.29A18.45,18.45,0,0,1,12,45.21Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M44.61,11.26V47H39.95V11.26h4.67Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M60.52,47L48.8,11.26h5l5.57,17.61c1.49,4.83,2.81,9.23,3.82,13.37h0.11c1-4.14,2.44-8.65,4.08-13.31l6-17.66H78.4L65.62,47H60.52Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M85,35.76L81.31,47H76.54L88.69,11.26h5.57L106.46,47h-4.93L97.7,35.76H85Zm11.72-3.61L93.2,21.87c-0.74-2.33-1.27-4.46-1.8-6.52H91.23c-0.48,2.07-1.06,4.3-1.75,6.47L86,32.16H96.75Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M13.3,102.54a16.33,16.33,0,0,0,8.3,2.29c4.76,0,7.55-2.46,7.55-6.08,0-3.36-1.93-5.34-6.8-7.15-5.89-2-9.53-5.12-9.53-10.14,0-5.6,4.66-9.76,11.67-9.76a16.93,16.93,0,0,1,7.92,1.71l-1.28,3.84a13.39,13.39,0,0,0-6.8-1.71c-4.92,0-6.8,2.93-6.8,5.39,0,3.31,2.19,5,7.17,6.88,6.1,2.4,9.15,5.28,9.15,10.57,0,5.5-4.07,10.35-12.58,10.35a18.67,18.67,0,0,1-9.21-2.35Z" fill="red"/><path d="M44.93,72.23v36H40.22v-36h4.71Z" fill="red"/><path d="M61,108.19l-11.83-36h5.09l5.62,17.72c1.5,4.86,2.84,9.28,3.85,13.45h0.11c1-4.16,2.46-8.7,4.12-13.39l6.1-17.77h5l-12.9,36H61Z" fill="red"/><path d="M85.72,96.88L82,108.19H77.15l12.26-36H95l12.31,36h-5L98.51,96.88H85.72Zm11.83-3.63L94,82.9c-0.75-2.35-1.28-4.48-1.82-6.56H92c-0.48,2.08-1.07,4.32-1.77,6.51L86.68,93.25H97.55Z" fill="red"/></svg>


Any other way to get this into LC?



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Mar 11 17:25:25 2016
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:25:25 +0000
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <B34FF172-72B0-4C9D-9721-378EFD658170@byu.edu>


> On Mar 11, 2016, at 2:55 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 11/03/2016 20:20, Devin Asay wrote:
> 
>> Peter,
>> 
>> I?m glad to hear this. I recently did a ?deep dive? into several of
>> the widgets in preparation for introducing my students to widgets for
>> mobile. I compiled a list of problems I found, including dictionary
>> errors, problems with the property inspector, and things that weren?t
>> quite working. I?d be happy to type them up, but they?re kind of
>> diverse for a single bug report, or I could just email them to you. I
>> suspect you?ve addressed some of them already.
>> 
>> Would this be helpful?
> 
> I really encourage you to take a look again at the widgets in the next
> LiveCode 8.0 DP release, and if you have some problems still showing up
> I'd be very interested to hear your feedback.  Some of the widgets are pretty much new widgets at this point.

I will definitely do that!
> 
> Bear in mind that it might be as quick for you to go in and fix the
> problems as to type them up for us!

I?ll have to get over my git-phobia first. :-/ More like git-ignorance. 

Devin



Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From hh at livecode.org  Sat Mar 12 01:29:35 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:29:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <2471E453-4A21-48D5-AECD-8A4892DE05B4@mac.com>
	<15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
	<56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <1457764175941-4702165.post@n4.nabble.com>

BR wrote
> We would like to make small things in Illustrator and then bring them into
> LC  but the SVG widget is super primitive...we need  support for more than
> one path.  even a simple thing like this  (see below) cannot be imported..

This (was below) is a *really* simple and super primitive SVG. I wonder why
you don't write the few lines needed by yourself? Just exercise your mind
...

hh

p.s. Alejandro T. knows a lot about SVG and wrote several nifty stacks to
that. You could think about supporting his work.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thanks-to-Dr-Richard-E-Hawkins-Esq-tp4702131p4702165.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 09:23:21 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 16:23:21 +0200
Subject: Widget Palette
Message-ID: <56E42659.8020202@gmail.com>

As the range of Widgets in LiveCode 8 is set to expand I would like to 
see a "revWidget" stack
as something separate from the "revTools" stack.

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785

Richmond.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 09:32:12 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 16:32:12 +0200
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com>



On 12.03.2016 00:12, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> On March 11, 2016 at 11:57:25 AM, Peter TB Brett (peter.brett at livecode.com<mailto:peter.brett at livecode.com>) wrote:
> I really encourage you to take a look again at the widgets in the next
> LiveCode 8.0 DP release,

That would be super; but however much you urge us, until you release 
that we will find it
rather difficult, if not impossible.

I, for one, am very excited by this comment and look forward to see 
whether SVG files will have
"finally arrived" in all their strength.

Richmond.
>
>
> Will there be more robust SVG support in the current SVG widget?
>
> We would like to make small things in Illustrator and then bring them into LC  but the SVG widget is super primitive...we need  support for more than one path.  even a simple thing like this  (see below) cannot be imported... in fact.. be careful... it will hang LC if you paste this into the widget path and fiddle with it. The SVG widget parser will choke and you may be forced to reboot LC (see http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17109)
>
> <svg id="Layer_1" data-name="Layer 1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 117.86 108.73"><title>SivaSivaLogo2-red-white</title><rect width="117.86" height="58.93" fill="red"/><path d="M13.27,41.39a16.14,16.14,0,0,0,8.22,2.28c4.72,0,7.48-2.44,7.48-6,0-3.34-1.91-5.3-6.74-7.11-5.83-2-9.44-5.09-9.44-10.08,0-5.57,4.61-9.71,11.56-9.71a16.72,16.72,0,0,1,7.85,1.7l-1.27,3.82a13.22,13.22,0,0,0-6.74-1.7c-4.88,0-6.74,2.92-6.74,5.36,0,3.29,2.17,4.93,7.11,6.84,6,2.39,9.07,5.25,9.07,10.5,0,5.46-4,10.29-12.46,10.29A18.45,18.45,0,0,1,12,45.21Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M44.61,11.26V47H39.95V11.26h4.67Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M60.52,47L48.8,11.26h5l5.57,17.61c1.49,4.83,2.81,9.23,3.82,13.37h0.11c1-4.14,2.44-8.65,4.08-13.31l6-17.66H78.4L65.62,47H60.52Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M85,35.76L81.31,47H76.54L88.69,11.26h5.57L106.46,47h-4.93L97.7,35.76H85Zm11.72-3.61L93.2,21.87c-0.74-2.33-1.27-4.46-1.8-6.52H91.23c-0.48,2.07-1.06,4.3-1.75,6.47L86,32.16H96.75Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M13.3,102.54a16.33,16.33,0,0,0,8.3,2.29c4.76,0,7.55-2.46,7.55-6.08,0-3.36-1.93-5.34-6.8-7.15-5.89-2-9.53-5.12-9.53-10.14,0-5.6,4.66-9.76,11.67-9.76a16.93,16.93,0,0,1,7.92,1.71l-1.28,3.84a13.39,13.39,0,0,0-6.8-1.71c-4.92,0-6.8,2.93-6.8,5.39,0,3.31,2.19,5,7.17,6.88,6.1,2.4,9.15,5.28,9.15,10.57,0,5.5-4.07,10.35-12.58,10.35a18.67,18.67,0,0,1-9.21-2.35Z" fill="red"/><path d="M44.93,72.23v36H40.22v-36h4.71Z" fill="red"/><path d="M61,108.19l-11.83-36h5.09l5.62,17.72c1.5,4.86,2.84,9.28,3.85,13.45h0.11c1-4.16,2.46-8.7,4.12-13.39l6.1-17.77h5l-12.9,36H61Z" fill="red"/><path d="M85.72,96.88L82,108.19H77.15l12.26-36H95l12.31,36h-5L98.51,96.88H85.72Zm11.83-3.63L94,82.9c-0.75-2.35-1.28-4.48-1.82-6.56H92c-0.48,2.08-1.07,4.32-1.77,6.51L86.68,93.25H97.55Z" fill="red"/></svg>
>
>
> Any other way to get this into LC?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 11:01:48 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:01:48 +0200
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56E43D6C.2070503@gmail.com>

Until LiveCode "just does" SVG images, a clever person who understands 
Java might be able to do
something with this to break down an SVG image into its components so 
that they could be imported individually:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10621118/split-groups-in-svg-into-sub-images-positioned-around-the-contents

Richmond.

On 12.03.2016 00:12, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> On March 11, 2016 at 11:57:25 AM, Peter TB Brett (peter.brett at livecode.com<mailto:peter.brett at livecode.com>) wrote:
> I really encourage you to take a look again at the widgets in the next
> LiveCode 8.0 DP release,
>
>
> Will there be more robust SVG support in the current SVG widget?
>
> We would like to make small things in Illustrator and then bring them into LC  but the SVG widget is super primitive...we need  support for more than one path.  even a simple thing like this  (see below) cannot be imported... in fact.. be careful... it will hang LC if you paste this into the widget path and fiddle with it. The SVG widget parser will choke and you may be forced to reboot LC (see http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17109)
>
> <svg id="Layer_1" data-name="Layer 1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 117.86 108.73"><title>SivaSivaLogo2-red-white</title><rect width="117.86" height="58.93" fill="red"/><path d="M13.27,41.39a16.14,16.14,0,0,0,8.22,2.28c4.72,0,7.48-2.44,7.48-6,0-3.34-1.91-5.3-6.74-7.11-5.83-2-9.44-5.09-9.44-10.08,0-5.57,4.61-9.71,11.56-9.71a16.72,16.72,0,0,1,7.85,1.7l-1.27,3.82a13.22,13.22,0,0,0-6.74-1.7c-4.88,0-6.74,2.92-6.74,5.36,0,3.29,2.17,4.93,7.11,6.84,6,2.39,9.07,5.25,9.07,10.5,0,5.46-4,10.29-12.46,10.29A18.45,18.45,0,0,1,12,45.21Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M44.61,11.26V47H39.95V11.26h4.67Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M60.52,47L48.8,11.26h5l5.57,17.61c1.49,4.83,2.81,9.23,3.82,13.37h0.11c1-4.14,2.44-8.65,4.08-13.31l6-17.66H78.4L65.62,47H60.52Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M85,35.76L81.31,47H76.54L88.69,11.26h5.57L106.46,47h-4.93L97.7,35.76H85Zm11.72-3.61L93.2,21.87c-0.74-2.33-1.27-4.46-1.8-6.52H91.23c-0.48,2.07-1.06,4.3-1.75,6.47L86,32.16H96.75Z" fill="#fff"/><path d="M13.3,102.54a16.33,16.33,0,0,0,8.3,2.29c4.76,0,7.55-2.46,7.55-6.08,0-3.36-1.93-5.34-6.8-7.15-5.89-2-9.53-5.12-9.53-10.14,0-5.6,4.66-9.76,11.67-9.76a16.93,16.93,0,0,1,7.92,1.71l-1.28,3.84a13.39,13.39,0,0,0-6.8-1.71c-4.92,0-6.8,2.93-6.8,5.39,0,3.31,2.19,5,7.17,6.88,6.1,2.4,9.15,5.28,9.15,10.57,0,5.5-4.07,10.35-12.58,10.35a18.67,18.67,0,0,1-9.21-2.35Z" fill="red"/><path d="M44.93,72.23v36H40.22v-36h4.71Z" fill="red"/><path d="M61,108.19l-11.83-36h5.09l5.62,17.72c1.5,4.86,2.84,9.28,3.85,13.45h0.11c1-4.16,2.46-8.7,4.12-13.39l6.1-17.77h5l-12.9,36H61Z" fill="red"/><path d="M85.72,96.88L82,108.19H77.15l12.26-36H95l12.31,36h-5L98.51,96.88H85.72Zm11.83-3.63L94,82.9c-0.75-2.35-1.28-4.48-1.82-6.56H92c-0.48,2.08-1.07,4.32-1.77,6.51L86.68,93.25H97.55Z" fill="red"/></svg>
>
>
> Any other way to get this into LC?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 11:29:49 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:29:49 +0200
Subject: SVG complexity
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56E443FD.2000409@gmail.com>

If one imports an SVG image into LibreOffice Draw [whether this works 
with MIcrosoft Office, I just
don't know] one can then export the component parts as individual SVG 
paths to import into LiveCode.

Of course this is a "pain", but it is, at the moment, a case of either 
that or convert the thing into
a PNG image.

I tend to go for the PNG option as the whole thing is just too much like 
hard work.

Frankly, at the moment, all that 'nonsense' about extracting the icon 
path from each SVG is so much
more clunky than Alejandro's work I honestly wonder why the Livecode 
people are favouring
that over Alejandro's stuff.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ja3Yvw8cHLVU5MTzRjY1lwcGM/edit?pref=2&pli=1

I should point out that Ian MacPhail has done a lot of work (on which, I 
believe, Alejandro has based
his work):

http://revonline2.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL

Ultimately, I am sure LiveCode will "get there" with SVG images. 
However, I would be very happy if SVG images could be imported via the 
revMenuBar stack under File/Import as Control/Image File rather
than by messing around with points in a field in the properties palette 
of a widget.

Richmond.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 11:31:46 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:31:46 +0200
Subject: Livecode Share
Message-ID: <56E44472.3040306@gmail.com>

This is a great online resource:

http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/search/

But the search system is not very good at all.

And advanced search system would make a huge difference.

Richmond.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sat Mar 12 12:09:23 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:09:23 +0000
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E44D43.5090107@livecode.com>

On 12/03/2016 14:32, RM wrote:
>
> On 12.03.2016 00:12, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>> On March 11, 2016 at 11:57:25 AM, Peter TB Brett
>> (peter.brett at livecode.com<mailto:peter.brett at livecode.com>) wrote:
>>  I really encourage you to take a look again at the widgets in the
>> next LiveCode 8.0 DP release,
>
> That would be super; but however much you urge us, until you release
> that we will find it rather difficult, if not impossible.

Not impossible at all.  LiveCode is open source software, so you can 
easily go ahead and try out the changes right now if you want to.

> I, for one, am very excited by this comment and look forward to see
> whether SVG files will have "finally arrived" in all their strength.

Sadly, SVG integration has had to be dropped from the LiveCode 8.0 release.

                               Peter


-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 12:16:14 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 19:16:14 +0200
Subject: Importing SVG images into LC 8
In-Reply-To: <56E443FD.2000409@gmail.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E443FD.2000409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E44EDE.4090403@gmail.com>

Well, as not all of us have Adobe Illustrator [ 
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/33498/l/3 ... -extension 
<http://lessons.livecode.com/m/33498/l/325452-getting-svg-path-data-for-svg-icon-extension> 
]

I thought I would put together a similar "Show-Me" thing using Inkscape 
[ https://inkscape.org/en/ ]:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26787&p=139515#p139515

Love, Richmond.


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Mar 12 12:30:18 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 09:30:18 -0800
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E44D43.5090107@livecode.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com> <56E44D43.5090107@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56E4522A.9080902@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/12/2016 09:09 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> Sadly, SVG integration has had to be dropped from the LiveCode 8.0 release.

Eh?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 12:47:18 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 19:47:18 +0200
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E4522A.9080902@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com> <56E44D43.5090107@livecode.com>
	<56E4522A.9080902@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56E45626.3040101@gmail.com>



On 12.03.2016 19:30, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/12/2016 09:09 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
>> Sadly, SVG integration has had to be dropped from the LiveCode 8.0 
>> release.
>
> Eh?
>

Here we go again.

R.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 14:16:43 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 21:16:43 +0200
Subject: Better theming in Livecode 8
Message-ID: <56E46B1B.8010105@gmail.com>

This looks interesting:

https://livecode.com/better-theming-in-livecode-8/

Until one reads this:

"If you don?t want to use the new appearance, you can set the ?theme? 
property of a control, group, card or stack to ?legacy? and the 
pre-LiveCode 8 appearance will be used. To get the new appearance for an 
individual control, use ?native?."

So, I set up a stack with a fld "fff" and a button with this script:

on mouseUp
    set the themeClass of fld "fff" to "label"
end mouseUp

and, while the button inside went grey, it did not look like a label.

Also, while it may be jolly to set the themes of individual controls in 
one's stack, it is going to be
a big pain-in-the-b if one has to do that for one's 50 or so controls on 
a card: Fraser's article giving
no indication about whether 'theme' is inherited, so that if I set the 
theme of my stack to 'egacy'
everything on the stack will adopt the 'legacy' theme.

As 'theme' and 'themeClss' are NOT in the online Dictionary [ 
https://livecode.com/resources/api/ ]
there is no easy way that Linux users can find out what all the 'theme' 
and 'themeClass' possibilities
are, or whether they are all cross-platform or not.

Richmond.



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 16:35:57 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 13:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <56E45626.3040101@gmail.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com> <56E44D43.5090107@livecode.com>
	<56E4522A.9080902@ahsoftware.net> <56E45626.3040101@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1457818557976-4702176.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi All,

Today, I could barely breathe but don't worry. Asthma was my childhood
problem that is just
menacing to return. Now I have better knowledge and mental resources to
recover faster :)

On 03/12/2016 09:09 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Sadly, SVG integration has had to be dropped 
> from the LiveCode 8.0 release.

Then,
On 12.03.2016 19:30, Mark Wieder wrote:
> Eh?

Finally, 
On 03/12/2016 09:09 AM, Richmond wrote:
> Here we go again.

LiveCode Developer Team discovered that SVG is not your everyday vector
graphics standard.

SVG was Adobe's idea to replace Macromedia Flash with an open standard.
So, just try to imagine everything that SVG was/is supposed to do.
In theory, you should be able to recreate any Shockwave Flash movie using
SVG (and Javascript). Only in theory.

Some months ago, we had a similar opinions exchange. Back then, I wrote that
LC team would
implement a bitmap image SVG viewer for SVG Basic or SVG Tiny specifications
without implementing interaction, hyperlinking and animation:

https://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/conform.html
There are two sub-categories of Conforming SVG Viewers:
Conforming Static SVG Viewers and Conforming Dynamic SVG Viewers

Conforming Static SVG Viewers support the static language features of SVG
that correspond to the feature string
"http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/feature/1.2/#SVG-static" (see Feature
strings). 

This category often corresponds to platforms and environments which only
render static documents, such as printers...

Ok, now you want to learn my opinion: How could RunRev implement SVG Basic
or SVG Tiny in LC 8?

Similar to other media: Images, Sounds and Movies.
Set the SVGdata of Image id 1523 to mySVGfile...

When you import a SVG into LC, the engine renders a bitmap static image of
the vector file.

This image could be resized and the engine reads vector data again and
paints the bitmap
representation of this SVG as an image.

Do you want to create an animation from a series of static SVG files?

Use a repeat structure, just like we use to animate a PNG image.

Please, Runrev do not try, not even try to import editable SVG as single
vector controls. Neither provide an internal visual editor for SVG files.
Remember that LC does not includes either and Editor for movies,
sounds and images.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thanks-to-Dr-Richard-E-Hawkins-Esq-tp4702131p4702176.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 12 17:14:51 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 22:14:51 +0000
Subject: No SVG in LC 8
In-Reply-To: <56E45626.3040101@gmail.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com> <56E44D43.5090107@livecode.com>
	<56E4522A.9080902@ahsoftware.net> <56E45626.3040101@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56e494da.79275375.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

> On 03/12/2016 09:09 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
>> Sadly, SVG integration has had to be dropped from the LiveCode 8.0
>> release.

OK I tried turning type into outlines, grouping and then making compound path... so far so good. only one set of values inside

d="M117.86,58.93H0V0H117.86V58.93ZM12,45.26a18.48,18.48,0,0,0,9.12,2.28c8.43,0,12.52-4.77,12.52-10.2[SNIP]" fill="red" />

if I don't use anything outside the first set of quotes it works. but wait.. it's black only? I can set the icon color to Red... but that is it... can't set the background to white. Objects with different colors will certainly fail. if I add

fill="red"

LC hangs dramatically with spinning ball as the SVG parser goes into an infinite busy loop. Force quit. fingers crossed, good stack is not corrupt (I had my first corrupt stack in years last week...fortunately had a recent back up.)

OK... well (sigh) back to creating the same icon in four different sizes as PNG and importing each of those to the img resources card to apply as icons on buttons. the range of 150px and below they break down "instantly" as soon as you adjust size, even with quality set to "Best"

You might tone down any hype on the promotion of the widget and SVG in the current presentation of Livecode as our work flow here  and expectations are not unusual. (ask designer to make something... looks great on the web... etc.)  future meeting: "Oh...we can use that on the web but not in our apps."  with eyes rolling since touting the wonders of SVG recently.

There is no clear disclaimer anywhere about "one path, one color only."  I suppose it has uses for those who can live with a single path, and as such, you may want to keep it in the tool set.

At the very least it would help to clarify the limitation in  this lesson:

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/33498/l/325452-getting-svg-path-data-for-svg-icon-extension

 to explain that only a single path is supported. and even if you *do* make compound paths, object with different colors will not be supported as the object comes in as B/W regardless of original colors.

And we really need to have some kind of limit check so that when users *do* paste some SVG in with unparseable data, LC just doesn't die on them.



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 18:01:24 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:01:24 -0500
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <1457818557976-4702176.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com> <56E44D43.5090107@livecode.com>
	<56E4522A.9080902@ahsoftware.net> <56E45626.3040101@gmail.com>
	<1457818557976-4702176.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <85E761EF-83E5-4D9B-B93C-0AB21AA68593@gmail.com>

This part seems wrong. According to Mr Wikipedia, SVG competed with a couple of other vector graphic formats, and all three were for still images. Recently there has also been animated SVG, which arguably could be used to replace either animated GIF or simple Flash animations.

Amusingly, one of the best tools to make animated SVG is Flash Professional (now Adobe Animate).


> On Mar 12, 2016, at 4:35 PM, Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> SVG was Adobe's idea to replace Macromedia Flash with an open standard.
> So, just try to imagine everything that SVG was/is supposed to do.
> In theory, you should be able to recreate any Shockwave Flash movie using
> SVG (and Javascript). Only in theory.



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 19:09:06 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 16:09:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <85E761EF-83E5-4D9B-B93C-0AB21AA68593@gmail.com>
References: <56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E4286C.1040108@gmail.com> <56E44D43.5090107@livecode.com>
	<56E4522A.9080902@ahsoftware.net> <56E45626.3040101@gmail.com>
	<1457818557976-4702176.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<85E761EF-83E5-4D9B-B93C-0AB21AA68593@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1457827746119-4702179.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Colin,

Colin Holgate-3 wrote
> This part seems wrong. According to Mr Wikipedia, SVG competed with a
> couple of other vector graphic formats, and all three were for still
> images. Recently there has also been animated SVG, which arguably could be
> used to replace either animated GIF or simple Flash animations.
> Amusingly, one of the best tools to make animated SVG is Flash
> Professional (now Adobe Animate).

Yes, my assumption that Adobe created SVG to replace Flash is wrong, but
that is how it was perceived. SVG was perceived as Flash replacement...

"To keep Mozilla competitive, allow SVG to reach its full potential, and
help kill Flash..."

"Maybe it's just me, but I'm wondering when SVG will become Flash. Or am I
comparing apples and oranges here?"

"SVG replaces PDF (Acrobat format). SVG plus SMIL replaces SWF (Flash
format), as replacing SWF for use in animated presentations...

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/04/03/24/1413207/svg-and-the-free-desktops


"Scalable Vector Graphics: It's text based (XML actually), it's an open
standard, it can be created dynamically, it's graphics, it's text, it's
interactive, it's zoomable, it's animated, it's ready to replace Flash. It's
SVG."

http://www.johnandrea.ca/svg/


"Will SVG replace Flash? Not likely. Certainly not any time soon. Will SVG
evolve into a useful tool for creating scriptable vector graphics? We think
it will."

http://alistapart.com/article/smil

and there are a lot more comments like these all around the web.
Specially, after Adobe bought Macromedia and left their own SVG plugin
(Adobe SVG viewer) to die in the hands of their users.

Anyway, the past is long gone.
SVG Tiny 1.1 is what we need in LiveCode
(without interaction, animation and hyperlinking).

Alejandro




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thanks-to-Dr-Richard-E-Hawkins-Esq-tp4702131p4702179.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 19:38:46 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 16:38:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <1457764175941-4702165.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <2471E453-4A21-48D5-AECD-8A4892DE05B4@mac.com>
	<15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
	<56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1457764175941-4702165.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1457829526771-4702180.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi,


BR wrote
>> We would like to make small things in Illustrator and then 
>> bring them into LC  but the SVG widget is super primitive...
>> we need  support for more than one path.  even a simple 
>> thing like this  (see below) cannot be imported.

I just tried and this SVG file could be imported 
using Ian McPhail's SVGL:
http://revonline2.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL

<svg id="Layer_1" data-name="Layer 1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
viewBox="0 0 117.86 108.73"><title>SivaSivaLogo2-red-white</title><rect
width="117.86" height="58.93" fill="red"/><path
d="M13.27,41.39a16.14,16.14,0,0,0,8.22,2.28c4.72,0,7.48-2.44,7.48-6,0-3.34-1.91-5.3-6.74-7.11-5.83-2-9.44-5.09-9.44-10.08,0-5.57,4.61-9.71,11.56-9.71a16.72,16.72,0,0,1,7.85,1.7l-1.27,3.82a13.22,13.22,0,0,0-6.74-1.7c-4.88,0-6.74,2.92-6.74,5.36,0,3.29,2.17,4.93,7.11,6.84,6,2.39,9.07,5.25,9.07,10.5,0,5.46-4,10.29-12.46,10.29A18.45,18.45,0,0,1,12,45.21Z"
fill="#fff"/><path d="M44.61,11.26V47H39.95V11.26h4.67Z" fill="#fff"/><path
d="M60.52,47L48.8,11.26h5l5.57,17.61c1.49,4.83,2.81,9.23,3.82,13.37h0.11c1-4.14,2.44-8.65,4.08-13.31l6-17.66H78.4L65.62,47H60.52Z"
fill="#fff"/><path
d="M85,35.76L81.31,47H76.54L88.69,11.26h5.57L106.46,47h-4.93L97.7,35.76H85Zm11.72-3.61L93.2,21.87c-0.74-2.33-1.27-4.46-1.8-6.52H91.23c-0.48,2.07-1.06,4.3-1.75,6.47L86,32.16H96.75Z"
fill="#fff"/><path
d="M13.3,102.54a16.33,16.33,0,0,0,8.3,2.29c4.76,0,7.55-2.46,7.55-6.08,0-3.36-1.93-5.34-6.8-7.15-5.89-2-9.53-5.12-9.53-10.14,0-5.6,4.66-9.76,11.67-9.76a16.93,16.93,0,0,1,7.92,1.71l-1.28,3.84a13.39,13.39,0,0,0-6.8-1.71c-4.92,0-6.8,2.93-6.8,5.39,0,3.31,2.19,5,7.17,6.88,6.1,2.4,9.15,5.28,9.15,10.57,0,5.5-4.07,10.35-12.58,10.35a18.67,18.67,0,0,1-9.21-2.35Z"
fill="red"/><path d="M44.93,72.23v36H40.22v-36h4.71Z" fill="red"/><path
d="M61,108.19l-11.83-36h5.09l5.62,17.72c1.5,4.86,2.84,9.28,3.85,13.45h0.11c1-4.16,2.46-8.7,4.12-13.39l6.1-17.77h5l-12.9,36H61Z"
fill="red"/><path
d="M85.72,96.88L82,108.19H77.15l12.26-36H95l12.31,36h-5L98.51,96.88H85.72Zm11.83-3.63L94,82.9c-0.75-2.35-1.28-4.48-1.82-6.56H92c-0.48,2.08-1.07,4.32-1.77,6.51L86.68,93.25H97.55Z"
fill="red"/></svg> 



-hh wrote
>> Alejandro T. knows a lot about SVG and wrote 
>> several nifty stacks to that. You could think 
>> about supporting his work.

No. Best way is importing SVG illustrations
as bitmaps, not as groups with hundreds or
thousands of vector controls.

SVGL + Gradients still will be really helpful
for importing a few vector graphics used
sparsely to create User Interfaces and other
punctual and very specific uses.

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thanks-to-Dr-Richard-E-Hawkins-Esq-tp4702131p4702180.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 20:42:52 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:42:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <1457829526771-4702180.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
	<56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1457764175941-4702165.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1457829526771-4702180.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1457833372770-4702181.post@n4.nabble.com>

Please test this SVG code.
Copy and Paste this in a SVG icon in LC8.
I used Inkscape to create this code.

M 0 0 L 0 58.929688 L 117.85938 58.929688 L 117.85938 0 L 0 0 z M 21.695312
10.265625 C 23.213546 10.265625 24.759867 10.417384 26.335938 10.722656 C
27.912007 11.027929 29.525461 11.48711 31.173828 12.097656 L 31.173828
16.84375 C 29.511001 15.960065 27.941652 15.30295 26.466797 14.869141 C
24.991942 14.435333 23.566999 14.216797 22.193359 14.216797 C 19.807565
14.216797 17.965404 14.731478 16.664062 15.759766 C 15.37718 16.788054
14.732422 18.250579 14.732422 20.146484 C 14.732422 21.737117 15.158616
22.942302 16.011719 23.761719 C 16.879279 24.565068 18.513809 25.214813
20.914062 25.712891 L 23.560547 26.316406 C 26.828362 27.007288 29.236052
28.227214 30.783203 29.978516 C 32.344814 31.713752 33.125 34.044557 33.125
36.96875 C 33.125 40.455288 32.070051 43.098931 29.958984 44.898438 C
27.862377 46.697941 24.78183 47.597656 20.71875 47.597656 C 19.186058
47.597656 17.55153 47.403186 15.816406 47.017578 C 14.095742 46.63197
12.311734 46.061789 10.460938 45.306641 L 10.460938 40.294922 C 12.239439
41.403545 13.981295 42.238437 15.6875 42.800781 C 17.393704 43.363127
19.070383 43.644531 20.71875 43.644531 C 23.220219 43.644531 25.150586
43.098415 26.509766 42.005859 C 27.868946 40.913303 28.548828 39.354519
28.548828 37.330078 C 28.548828 35.562708 28.057455 34.1817 27.074219
33.185547 C 26.105442 32.189393 24.507992 31.441436 22.28125 30.943359 L
19.613281 30.365234 C 16.345466 29.64222 13.981879 28.509229 12.521484
26.966797 C 11.061088 25.424365 10.330078 23.278706 10.330078 20.53125 C
10.330078 17.349985 11.333899 14.843356 13.34375 13.011719 C 15.368061
11.180081 18.15277 10.265625 21.695312 10.265625 z M 39.957031 10.916016 L
44.337891 10.916016 L 44.337891 46.898438 L 39.957031 46.898438 L 39.957031
10.916016 z M 49.044922 10.916016 L 53.621094 10.916016 L 63.880859
41.210938 L 74.160156 10.916016 L 78.714844 10.916016 L 66.375 46.898438 L
61.408203 46.898438 L 49.044922 10.916016 z M 88.910156 10.916016 L
93.876953 10.916016 L 106.2168 46.898438 L 101.66211 46.898438 L 98.712891
37.667969 L 84.115234 37.667969 L 81.166016 46.898438 L 76.546875 46.898438
L 88.910156 10.916016 z M 91.382812 15.710938 L 85.439453 33.619141 L
97.345703 33.619141 L 91.382812 15.710938 z M 22.351562 71.138672 C 18.80902
71.138672 16.026264 72.055081 14.001953 73.886719 C 11.992102 75.718356
10.986328 78.224985 10.986328 81.40625 C 10.986328 84.153706 11.717338
86.297412 13.177734 87.839844 C 14.638129 89.382276 17.001716 90.515267
20.269531 91.238281 L 22.9375 91.816406 C 25.164242 92.314483 26.761692
93.06244 27.730469 94.058594 C 28.713705 95.054747 29.205078 96.435755
29.205078 98.203125 C 29.205078 100.22757 28.525196 101.78635 27.166016
102.87891 C 25.806836 103.97147 23.876469 104.51758 21.375 104.51758 C
19.726633 104.51758 18.049954 104.23617 16.34375 103.67383 C 14.637545
103.11148 12.895689 102.27659 11.117188 101.16797 L 11.117188 106.18164 C
12.967985 106.93679 14.753945 107.50697 16.474609 107.89258 C 18.209733
108.27819 19.842308 108.4707 21.375 108.4707 C 25.43808 108.4707 28.518627
107.57099 30.615234 105.77148 C 32.726301 103.97198 33.78125 101.32834
33.78125 97.841797 C 33.78125 94.917604 33.001064 92.588752 31.439453
90.853516 C 29.892302 89.102214 27.484612 87.880334 24.216797 87.189453 L
21.570312 86.587891 C 19.170058 86.089813 17.535529 85.438115 16.667969
84.634766 C 15.814866 83.815349 15.388672 82.610164 15.388672 81.019531 C
15.388672 79.123626 16.033429 77.661101 17.320312 76.632812 C 18.621655
75.604525 20.463815 75.091797 22.849609 75.091797 C 24.223249 75.091797
25.648192 75.30838 27.123047 75.742188 C 28.597902 76.175997 30.167251
76.835065 31.830078 77.71875 L 31.830078 72.970703 C 30.181711 72.360157
28.568258 71.902929 26.992188 71.597656 C 25.416117 71.292384 23.869796
71.138672 22.351562 71.138672 z M 40.613281 71.789062 L 40.613281 107.77148
L 44.994141 107.77148 L 44.994141 71.789062 L 40.613281 71.789062 z M
49.701172 71.789062 L 62.064453 107.77148 L 67.03125 107.77148 L 79.371094
71.789062 L 74.816406 71.789062 L 64.537109 102.08398 L 54.277344 71.789062
L 49.701172 71.789062 z M 89.566406 71.789062 L 77.203125 107.77148 L
81.822266 107.77148 L 84.773438 98.541016 L 99.369141 98.541016 L 102.31836
107.77148 L 106.87305 107.77148 L 94.533203 71.789062 L 89.566406 71.789062
z M 92.039062 76.585938 L 98.001953 94.492188 L 86.095703 94.492188 L
92.039062 76.585938 z

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thanks-to-Dr-Richard-E-Hawkins-Esq-tp4702131p4702181.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 12 21:20:41 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 02:20:41 +0000
Subject: Re-Render Card-image that has moved on disk
Message-ID: <etPan.56e4ce78.6193e9fc.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

LC8 dp 15  (perhaps was doing this before)

open stack which has card with image "listen-background"  filename prop for the image is set to a file on disk.

on disk: move the file into another folder

go back to LC, move to another card and come back to the above card: image still appears, even though it is no longer there at that location on disk. Save stack; close and remove from memory, reopen... now that card-image is blank.  On disk (in finder) move image back to original location... go back to the card... path is correct, image is there, image is still blank. click on browse in the property inspector, re-select the image on disk.  image is still blank...

save. close, reopen stack... now the image appears.

is this a bug?  I could have sworn in earlier versions the image was "responsive" run time.. but now it is as if the image "state" is cached and never updated until the stack is reopened. Is there a way to  cause the card/image to refresh and update?

From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 12 21:22:38 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 02:22:38 +0000
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <1457829526771-4702180.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <2471E453-4A21-48D5-AECD-8A4892DE05B4@mac.com>
	<15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
	<56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1457764175941-4702165.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1457829526771-4702180.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56e4ceed.6dff9155.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>

But the second line appears distorted and the "S: in the first line is rendered "chunky" and the left vertical bar of the "V" narrows at the bottom apex: ergo: not true to the original type.


On March 12, 2016 at 3:07:19 PM, Alejandro Tejada (capellan2000 at gmail.com<mailto:capellan2000 at gmail.com>) wrote:

I just tried and this SVG file could be imported
using Ian McPhail's SVGL:
http://revonline2.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL

<svg id="Layer_1" data-name="Layer 1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
viewBox="0 0 117.86 108.73"><title>SivaSivaLogo2-red-white</title><rect
width="117.86" height="58.93" fill="red"/><path
d="M13.27,41.39a16.14,16.14,0,0,0,8.22,2.28c4.72,0,7.48-2.44,7.48-6,0-3.34-1.91-5.3-6.74-7.11-5.83-2-9.44-5.09-9.44-10.08,0-5.57,4.61-9.71,11.56-9.71a16.72,16.72,0,0,1,7.85,1.7l-1.27,3.82a13.22,13.22,0,0,0-6.74-1.7c-4.88,0-6.74,2.92-6.74,5.36,0,3.29,2.17,4.93,7.11,6.84,6,2.39,9.07,5.25,9.07,10.5,0,5.46-4,10.29-12.46,10.29A18.45,18.45,0,0,1,12,45.21Z"
fill="#fff"/><path d="M44.61,11.26V47H39.95V11.26h4.67Z" fill="#fff"/><path
d="M60.52,47L48.8,11.26h5l5.57,17.61c1.49,4.83,2.81,9.23,3.82,13.37h0.11c1-4.14,2.44-8.65,4.08-13.31l6-17.66H78.4L65.62,47H60.52Z"
fill="#fff"/><path
d="M85,35.76L81.31,47H76.54L88.69,11.26h5.57L106.46,47h-4.93L97.7,35.76H85Zm11.72-3.61L93.2,21.87c-0.74-2.33-1.27-4.46-1.8-6.52H91.23c-0.48,2.07-1.06,4.3-1.75,6.47L86,32.16H96.75Z"
fill="#fff"/><path
d="M13.3,102.54a16.33,16.33,0,0,0,8.3,2.29c4.76,0,7.55-2.46,7.55-6.08,0-3.36-1.93-5.34-6.8-7.15-5.89-2-9.53-5.12-9.53-10.14,0-5.6,4.66-9.76,11.67-9.76a16.93,16.93,0,0,1,7.92,1.71l-1.28,3.84a13.39,13.39,0,0,0-6.8-1.71c-4.92,0-6.8,2.93-6.8,5.39,0,3.31,2.19,5,7.17,6.88,6.1,2.4,9.15,5.28,9.15,10.57,0,5.5-4.07,10.35-12.58,10.35a18.67,18.67,0,0,1-9.21-2.35Z"
fill="red"/><path d="M44.93,72.23v36H40.22v-36h4.71Z" fill="red"/><path
d="M61,108.19l-11.83-36h5.09l5.62,17.72c1.5,4.86,2.84,9.28,3.85,13.45h0.11c1-4.16,2.46-8.7,4.12-13.39l6.1-17.77h5l-12.9,36H61Z"
fill="red"/><path
d="M85.72,96.88L82,108.19H77.15l12.26-36H95l12.31,36h-5L98.51,96.88H85.72Zm11.83-3.63L94,82.9c-0.75-2.35-1.28-4.48-1.82-6.56H92c-0.48,2.08-1.07,4.32-1.77,6.51L86.68,93.25H97.55Z"
fill="red"/></svg>

From monte at appisle.net  Sat Mar 12 22:02:35 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:02:35 +1100
Subject: Re-Render Card-image that has moved on disk
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e4ce78.6193e9fc.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56e4ce78.6193e9fc.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <E8774D7C-5EC8-4FB1-8BC4-1F34A32FA5D6@appisle.net>

There has been an image cache for a while. You can clear it by setting the imageCacheSize (I think that's the name of the property) to 0 then back to whatever it was.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Mar 2016, at 1:20 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> LC8 dp 15  (perhaps was doing this before)
> 
> open stack which has card with image "listen-background"  filename prop for the image is set to a file on disk.
> 
> on disk: move the file into another folder
> 
> go back to LC, move to another card and come back to the above card: image still appears, even though it is no longer there at that location on disk. Save stack; close and remove from memory, reopen... now that card-image is blank.  On disk (in finder) move image back to original location... go back to the card... path is correct, image is there, image is still blank. click on browse in the property inspector, re-select the image on disk.  image is still blank...
> 
> save. close, reopen stack... now the image appears.
> 
> is this a bug?  I could have sworn in earlier versions the image was "responsive" run time.. but now it is as if the image "state" is cached and never updated until the stack is reopened. Is there a way to  cause the card/image to refresh and update?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 00:25:28 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 07:25:28 +0200
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <1457833372770-4702181.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
	<56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1457764175941-4702165.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1457829526771-4702180.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1457833372770-4702181.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56E4F9C8.1090702@gmail.com>

No: I'm sorry, I'm not going to for the very simple reason that when I 
opened
LC 8 DP 15 on Xubuntu 64 bit 15.10, created a standard 400x400 stack,
imported an SVG widget, and clicked on it to get the preference palette 
my whole computer
froze solid.

Probably try it later with DP 12 or something, after I've calmed down.

Richmond.

On 13.03.2016 03:42, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> Please test this SVG code.
> Copy and Paste this in a SVG icon in LC8.
> I used Inkscape to create this code.
>
> M 0 0 L 0 58.929688 L 117.85938 58.929688 L 117.85938 0 L 0 0 z M 21.695312
> 10.265625 C 23.213546 10.265625 24.759867 10.417384 26.335938 10.722656 C
> 27.912007 11.027929 29.525461 11.48711 31.173828 12.097656 L 31.173828
> 16.84375 C 29.511001 15.960065 27.941652 15.30295 26.466797 14.869141 C
> 24.991942 14.435333 23.566999 14.216797 22.193359 14.216797 C 19.807565
> 14.216797 17.965404 14.731478 16.664062 15.759766 C 15.37718 16.788054
> 14.732422 18.250579 14.732422 20.146484 C 14.732422 21.737117 15.158616
> 22.942302 16.011719 23.761719 C 16.879279 24.565068 18.513809 25.214813
> 20.914062 25.712891 L 23.560547 26.316406 C 26.828362 27.007288 29.236052
> 28.227214 30.783203 29.978516 C 32.344814 31.713752 33.125 34.044557 33.125
> 36.96875 C 33.125 40.455288 32.070051 43.098931 29.958984 44.898438 C
> 27.862377 46.697941 24.78183 47.597656 20.71875 47.597656 C 19.186058
> 47.597656 17.55153 47.403186 15.816406 47.017578 C 14.095742 46.63197
> 12.311734 46.061789 10.460938 45.306641 L 10.460938 40.294922 C 12.239439
> 41.403545 13.981295 42.238437 15.6875 42.800781 C 17.393704 43.363127
> 19.070383 43.644531 20.71875 43.644531 C 23.220219 43.644531 25.150586
> 43.098415 26.509766 42.005859 C 27.868946 40.913303 28.548828 39.354519
> 28.548828 37.330078 C 28.548828 35.562708 28.057455 34.1817 27.074219
> 33.185547 C 26.105442 32.189393 24.507992 31.441436 22.28125 30.943359 L
> 19.613281 30.365234 C 16.345466 29.64222 13.981879 28.509229 12.521484
> 26.966797 C 11.061088 25.424365 10.330078 23.278706 10.330078 20.53125 C
> 10.330078 17.349985 11.333899 14.843356 13.34375 13.011719 C 15.368061
> 11.180081 18.15277 10.265625 21.695312 10.265625 z M 39.957031 10.916016 L
> 44.337891 10.916016 L 44.337891 46.898438 L 39.957031 46.898438 L 39.957031
> 10.916016 z M 49.044922 10.916016 L 53.621094 10.916016 L 63.880859
> 41.210938 L 74.160156 10.916016 L 78.714844 10.916016 L 66.375 46.898438 L
> 61.408203 46.898438 L 49.044922 10.916016 z M 88.910156 10.916016 L
> 93.876953 10.916016 L 106.2168 46.898438 L 101.66211 46.898438 L 98.712891
> 37.667969 L 84.115234 37.667969 L 81.166016 46.898438 L 76.546875 46.898438
> L 88.910156 10.916016 z M 91.382812 15.710938 L 85.439453 33.619141 L
> 97.345703 33.619141 L 91.382812 15.710938 z M 22.351562 71.138672 C 18.80902
> 71.138672 16.026264 72.055081 14.001953 73.886719 C 11.992102 75.718356
> 10.986328 78.224985 10.986328 81.40625 C 10.986328 84.153706 11.717338
> 86.297412 13.177734 87.839844 C 14.638129 89.382276 17.001716 90.515267
> 20.269531 91.238281 L 22.9375 91.816406 C 25.164242 92.314483 26.761692
> 93.06244 27.730469 94.058594 C 28.713705 95.054747 29.205078 96.435755
> 29.205078 98.203125 C 29.205078 100.22757 28.525196 101.78635 27.166016
> 102.87891 C 25.806836 103.97147 23.876469 104.51758 21.375 104.51758 C
> 19.726633 104.51758 18.049954 104.23617 16.34375 103.67383 C 14.637545
> 103.11148 12.895689 102.27659 11.117188 101.16797 L 11.117188 106.18164 C
> 12.967985 106.93679 14.753945 107.50697 16.474609 107.89258 C 18.209733
> 108.27819 19.842308 108.4707 21.375 108.4707 C 25.43808 108.4707 28.518627
> 107.57099 30.615234 105.77148 C 32.726301 103.97198 33.78125 101.32834
> 33.78125 97.841797 C 33.78125 94.917604 33.001064 92.588752 31.439453
> 90.853516 C 29.892302 89.102214 27.484612 87.880334 24.216797 87.189453 L
> 21.570312 86.587891 C 19.170058 86.089813 17.535529 85.438115 16.667969
> 84.634766 C 15.814866 83.815349 15.388672 82.610164 15.388672 81.019531 C
> 15.388672 79.123626 16.033429 77.661101 17.320312 76.632812 C 18.621655
> 75.604525 20.463815 75.091797 22.849609 75.091797 C 24.223249 75.091797
> 25.648192 75.30838 27.123047 75.742188 C 28.597902 76.175997 30.167251
> 76.835065 31.830078 77.71875 L 31.830078 72.970703 C 30.181711 72.360157
> 28.568258 71.902929 26.992188 71.597656 C 25.416117 71.292384 23.869796
> 71.138672 22.351562 71.138672 z M 40.613281 71.789062 L 40.613281 107.77148
> L 44.994141 107.77148 L 44.994141 71.789062 L 40.613281 71.789062 z M
> 49.701172 71.789062 L 62.064453 107.77148 L 67.03125 107.77148 L 79.371094
> 71.789062 L 74.816406 71.789062 L 64.537109 102.08398 L 54.277344 71.789062
> L 49.701172 71.789062 z M 89.566406 71.789062 L 77.203125 107.77148 L
> 81.822266 107.77148 L 84.773438 98.541016 L 99.369141 98.541016 L 102.31836
> 107.77148 L 106.87305 107.77148 L 94.533203 71.789062 L 89.566406 71.789062
> z M 92.039062 76.585938 L 98.001953 94.492188 L 86.095703 94.492188 L
> 92.039062 76.585938 z
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thanks-to-Dr-Richard-E-Hawkins-Esq-tp4702131p4702181.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 04:42:01 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 10:42:01 +0200
Subject: Livecode 6.7.10 Application Browser has a very long memory
Message-ID: <56E527D9.2010703@gmail.com>

I opened LC 6.7.10 on my computer for the first time after I installed it and looked in the Application Browser [because of a Facebook posting by somebody else]
and saw quite a number of stacks listed as being in the memory: how this is possible I just don't know, although they are all stacks that I have authored with the Livecode 6 series of releases.

On clicking on these phantom stacks they appeared on the desktop!

Obviously ALL these stacks are being loaded into the memory when the NEW Livecode build is opened.

Bug: 17114

Richmond.




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 04:54:03 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 10:54:03 +0200
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <1457833372770-4702181.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
	<56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1457764175941-4702165.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1457829526771-4702180.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1457833372770-4702181.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56E52AAB.8040701@gmail.com>

I had a go in DP 11 and got this:

          executing at 10:47:51 AM
LCB Error    Unable to parse path data: "Path must begin with moveto 
command" at position 1
Object    SVG Icon
LCB File    svgpath.lcb
LCB Line    342

I wonder what that picture is; after I tried to feed the code back into 
Inkscape I got an odd, black, geometric shape.

Please have a look at this: 
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26787

If your paths aren't combined you will get in trouble.

Richmond.

On 13.03.2016 03:42, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> Please test this SVG code.
> Copy and Paste this in a SVG icon in LC8.
> I used Inkscape to create this code.
>
> M 0 0 L 0 58.929688 L 117.85938 58.929688 L 117.85938 0 L 0 0 z M 21.695312
> 10.265625 C 23.213546 10.265625 24.759867 10.417384 26.335938 10.722656 C
> 27.912007 11.027929 29.525461 11.48711 31.173828 12.097656 L 31.173828
> 16.84375 C 29.511001 15.960065 27.941652 15.30295 26.466797 14.869141 C
> 24.991942 14.435333 23.566999 14.216797 22.193359 14.216797 C 19.807565
> 14.216797 17.965404 14.731478 16.664062 15.759766 C 15.37718 16.788054
> 14.732422 18.250579 14.732422 20.146484 C 14.732422 21.737117 15.158616
> 22.942302 16.011719 23.761719 C 16.879279 24.565068 18.513809 25.214813
> 20.914062 25.712891 L 23.560547 26.316406 C 26.828362 27.007288 29.236052
> 28.227214 30.783203 29.978516 C 32.344814 31.713752 33.125 34.044557 33.125
> 36.96875 C 33.125 40.455288 32.070051 43.098931 29.958984 44.898438 C
> 27.862377 46.697941 24.78183 47.597656 20.71875 47.597656 C 19.186058
> 47.597656 17.55153 47.403186 15.816406 47.017578 C 14.095742 46.63197
> 12.311734 46.061789 10.460938 45.306641 L 10.460938 40.294922 C 12.239439
> 41.403545 13.981295 42.238437 15.6875 42.800781 C 17.393704 43.363127
> 19.070383 43.644531 20.71875 43.644531 C 23.220219 43.644531 25.150586
> 43.098415 26.509766 42.005859 C 27.868946 40.913303 28.548828 39.354519
> 28.548828 37.330078 C 28.548828 35.562708 28.057455 34.1817 27.074219
> 33.185547 C 26.105442 32.189393 24.507992 31.441436 22.28125 30.943359 L
> 19.613281 30.365234 C 16.345466 29.64222 13.981879 28.509229 12.521484
> 26.966797 C 11.061088 25.424365 10.330078 23.278706 10.330078 20.53125 C
> 10.330078 17.349985 11.333899 14.843356 13.34375 13.011719 C 15.368061
> 11.180081 18.15277 10.265625 21.695312 10.265625 z M 39.957031 10.916016 L
> 44.337891 10.916016 L 44.337891 46.898438 L 39.957031 46.898438 L 39.957031
> 10.916016 z M 49.044922 10.916016 L 53.621094 10.916016 L 63.880859
> 41.210938 L 74.160156 10.916016 L 78.714844 10.916016 L 66.375 46.898438 L
> 61.408203 46.898438 L 49.044922 10.916016 z M 88.910156 10.916016 L
> 93.876953 10.916016 L 106.2168 46.898438 L 101.66211 46.898438 L 98.712891
> 37.667969 L 84.115234 37.667969 L 81.166016 46.898438 L 76.546875 46.898438
> L 88.910156 10.916016 z M 91.382812 15.710938 L 85.439453 33.619141 L
> 97.345703 33.619141 L 91.382812 15.710938 z M 22.351562 71.138672 C 18.80902
> 71.138672 16.026264 72.055081 14.001953 73.886719 C 11.992102 75.718356
> 10.986328 78.224985 10.986328 81.40625 C 10.986328 84.153706 11.717338
> 86.297412 13.177734 87.839844 C 14.638129 89.382276 17.001716 90.515267
> 20.269531 91.238281 L 22.9375 91.816406 C 25.164242 92.314483 26.761692
> 93.06244 27.730469 94.058594 C 28.713705 95.054747 29.205078 96.435755
> 29.205078 98.203125 C 29.205078 100.22757 28.525196 101.78635 27.166016
> 102.87891 C 25.806836 103.97147 23.876469 104.51758 21.375 104.51758 C
> 19.726633 104.51758 18.049954 104.23617 16.34375 103.67383 C 14.637545
> 103.11148 12.895689 102.27659 11.117188 101.16797 L 11.117188 106.18164 C
> 12.967985 106.93679 14.753945 107.50697 16.474609 107.89258 C 18.209733
> 108.27819 19.842308 108.4707 21.375 108.4707 C 25.43808 108.4707 28.518627
> 107.57099 30.615234 105.77148 C 32.726301 103.97198 33.78125 101.32834
> 33.78125 97.841797 C 33.78125 94.917604 33.001064 92.588752 31.439453
> 90.853516 C 29.892302 89.102214 27.484612 87.880334 24.216797 87.189453 L
> 21.570312 86.587891 C 19.170058 86.089813 17.535529 85.438115 16.667969
> 84.634766 C 15.814866 83.815349 15.388672 82.610164 15.388672 81.019531 C
> 15.388672 79.123626 16.033429 77.661101 17.320312 76.632812 C 18.621655
> 75.604525 20.463815 75.091797 22.849609 75.091797 C 24.223249 75.091797
> 25.648192 75.30838 27.123047 75.742188 C 28.597902 76.175997 30.167251
> 76.835065 31.830078 77.71875 L 31.830078 72.970703 C 30.181711 72.360157
> 28.568258 71.902929 26.992188 71.597656 C 25.416117 71.292384 23.869796
> 71.138672 22.351562 71.138672 z M 40.613281 71.789062 L 40.613281 107.77148
> L 44.994141 107.77148 L 44.994141 71.789062 L 40.613281 71.789062 z M
> 49.701172 71.789062 L 62.064453 107.77148 L 67.03125 107.77148 L 79.371094
> 71.789062 L 74.816406 71.789062 L 64.537109 102.08398 L 54.277344 71.789062
> L 49.701172 71.789062 z M 89.566406 71.789062 L 77.203125 107.77148 L
> 81.822266 107.77148 L 84.773438 98.541016 L 99.369141 98.541016 L 102.31836
> 107.77148 L 106.87305 107.77148 L 94.533203 71.789062 L 89.566406 71.789062
> z M 92.039062 76.585938 L 98.001953 94.492188 L 86.095703 94.492188 L
> 92.039062 76.585938 z
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thanks-to-Dr-Richard-E-Hawkins-Esq-tp4702131p4702181.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sun Mar 13 06:11:35 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 10:11:35 +0000
Subject: Better theming in Livecode 8
In-Reply-To: <56E46B1B.8010105@gmail.com>
References: <56E46B1B.8010105@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E53CD7.4010400@livecode.com>

On 12/03/2016 19:16, RM wrote:
> Also, while it may be jolly to set the themes of individual controls in
> one's stack, it is going to be
> a big pain-in-the-b if one has to do that for one's 50 or so controls on
> a card: Fraser's article giving
> no indication about whether 'theme' is inherited, so that if I set the
> theme of my stack to 'egacy'
> everything on the stack will adopt the 'legacy' theme.

It's inherited.  Just set it at the stack level.

                                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 06:39:16 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:39:16 +0200
Subject: Better theming in Livecode 8
In-Reply-To: <56E53CD7.4010400@livecode.com>
References: <56E46B1B.8010105@gmail.com> <56E53CD7.4010400@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56E54354.9020908@gmail.com>



On 13.03.2016 12:11, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 12/03/2016 19:16, RM wrote:
>> Also, while it may be jolly to set the themes of individual controls in
>> one's stack, it is going to be
>> a big pain-in-the-b if one has to do that for one's 50 or so controls on
>> a card: Fraser's article giving
>> no indication about whether 'theme' is inherited, so that if I set the
>> theme of my stack to 'egacy'
>> everything on the stack will adopt the 'legacy' theme.
>
> It's inherited.  Just set it at the stack level.
>
>                                         Peter
>

Thanks, that's very useful to know.

Richmond.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 07:00:52 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 13:00:52 +0200
Subject: Better theming in Livecode 8
In-Reply-To: <56E54354.9020908@gmail.com>
References: <56E46B1B.8010105@gmail.com> <56E53CD7.4010400@livecode.com>
	<56E54354.9020908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E54864.6070904@gmail.com>

Could you let us know what are all the possibilities with 'theme' and 
'themeClass', considering
they are not included in the Dictionary yet?

R.

On 13.03.2016 12:39, RM wrote:
>
>
> On 13.03.2016 12:11, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>> On 12/03/2016 19:16, RM wrote:
>>> Also, while it may be jolly to set the themes of individual controls in
>>> one's stack, it is going to be
>>> a big pain-in-the-b if one has to do that for one's 50 or so 
>>> controls on
>>> a card: Fraser's article giving
>>> no indication about whether 'theme' is inherited, so that if I set the
>>> theme of my stack to 'egacy'
>>> everything on the stack will adopt the 'legacy' theme.
>>
>> It's inherited.  Just set it at the stack level.
>>
>>                                         Peter
>>
>
> Thanks, that's very useful to know.
>
> Richmond.




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sun Mar 13 07:48:37 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:48:37 +0100
Subject: Better theming in Livecode 8
In-Reply-To: <56E54864.6070904@gmail.com>
References: <56E46B1B.8010105@gmail.com> <56E53CD7.4010400@livecode.com>
	<56E54354.9020908@gmail.com> <56E54864.6070904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <059f2741810bf72825289cf120418f00@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-13 12:00, RM wrote:
> Could you let us know what are all the possibilities with 'theme' and
> 'themeClass', considering
> they are not included in the Dictionary yet?

They are already in the dictionary. Here:

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/property/theme.lcdoc
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/property/themeClass.lcdoc

                                      Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 08:01:42 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:01:42 +0200
Subject: Better theming in Livecode 8
In-Reply-To: <059f2741810bf72825289cf120418f00@livecode.com>
References: <56E46B1B.8010105@gmail.com> <56E53CD7.4010400@livecode.com>
	<56E54354.9020908@gmail.com> <56E54864.6070904@gmail.com>
	<059f2741810bf72825289cf120418f00@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56E556A6.8040001@gmail.com>

Thanks.

Does that mean that at present the choice of themes is only between 
"legacy" and "native"?

Richmond.

On 13.03.2016 13:48, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 2016-03-13 12:00, RM wrote:
>> Could you let us know what are all the possibilities with 'theme' and
>> 'themeClass', considering
>> they are not included in the Dictionary yet?
>
> They are already in the dictionary. Here:
>
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/property/theme.lcdoc 
>
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/property/themeClass.lcdoc 
>
>
>                                      Peter
>




From colinholgate at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 09:27:19 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 09:27:19 -0400
Subject: Look and Feel in LC8
In-Reply-To: <1457833372770-4702181.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <15361bb62c0-5ecd-175b@webprd-a31.mail.aol.com>
	<9AD76F5A-A9F2-4EFA-9561-DB1BDAB8B6D9@mac.com>
	<56E2924E.8010104@livecode.com> <56E2DAFE.3050903@fourthworld.com>
	<56E2DF08.8050100@livecode.com>
	<BC4D3AC9-A117-46EF-A812-CBCB79F29A5D@byu.edu>
	<56E33ED0.5000704@livecode.com>
	<etPan.56e342e2.32b4c271.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1457764175941-4702165.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1457829526771-4702180.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1457833372770-4702181.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <9B4752D6-9A3F-470D-850A-1AAE9D455922@gmail.com>

It shows?

SIVA
SIVA


white on black for the first line and black on white for the second line.


> On Mar 12, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Please test this SVG code.
> Copy and Paste this in a SVG icon in LC8.
> I used Inkscape to create this code.
> 
> M 0 0 L 0 58.929688 L 117.85938 58.929688 L 



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 13 12:14:23 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:14:23 -0500
Subject: Better theming in Livecode 8
In-Reply-To: <059f2741810bf72825289cf120418f00@livecode.com>
References: <56E46B1B.8010105@gmail.com> <56E53CD7.4010400@livecode.com>
	<56E54354.9020908@gmail.com> <56E54864.6070904@gmail.com>
	<059f2741810bf72825289cf120418f00@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <15370c1cf18.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

The entry for themeclass mentions "label" only. What are the other options?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On March 13, 2016 6:49:48 AM Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:

> On 2016-03-13 12:00, RM wrote:
>> Could you let us know what are all the possibilities with 'theme' and
>> 'themeClass', considering
>> they are not included in the Dictionary yet?
>
> They are already in the dictionary. Here:
>
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/property/theme.lcdoc
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/property/themeClass.lcdoc
>
>                                       Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar 13 12:54:19 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 09:54:19 -0700
Subject: Livecode 6.7.10 Application Browser has a very long memory
In-Reply-To: <56E527D9.2010703@gmail.com>
References: <56E527D9.2010703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E59B3B.1000402@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/13/2016 12:42 AM, RM wrote:

> Obviously ALL these stacks are being loaded into the memory when the NEW
> Livecode build is opened.

The stacks aren't, but the list of "recent" stacks is stored as a custom 
property somewhere. I forget where. No doubt it's the preferences stack, 
which is more or less not version-dependent.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Sun Mar 13 17:25:02 2016
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 21:25:02 +0000
Subject: Write to IPTC Core Data of Image Files?
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e32254.1ad138b2.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56e11b5e.1f73829f.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56E1BDC7.9080204@cogapp.com>
	<etPan.56e32254.1ad138b2.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56E5DAAE.3030205@cogapp.com>

On 11/03/2016 19:53, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> @ Other BR :-)
>
>
>   However, we found interesting variations in
> what could be ready by which applications. I
>
> ExifTool looks good, very doable to drive from LC scripts.

Yes, I think at the time it was the go-to choice.  I wish I could remember 
what the problem was: I think it was probably that we found that the tags it 
wrote were readable by some applications we tested, but not others.

In regards to your other question, we ended up writing some of the data to 
multiple fields - e.g. "byline" and "caption writer" set to the same text, 
"credit line" and "source" to the same text - again because we found that some 
apps displayed some fields, other apps displayed a different selection.

If your requirement is for in-house processing with a known toolchain, neither 
of these issues may be relevant.

best

OBR...



From hh at livecode.org  Sun Mar 13 21:18:53 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Acceptable load speed of HTML5 standalones?
Message-ID: <1457918333733-4702197.post@n4.nabble.com>

Because on-rev serves now from North-Eastern USA (Liquid Web),
the HTML5 standalones (after slower first load of the .js and .mem)
should have also in CA and US a laoding time below 10 seconds with
a medium fast internet connection (500 MBit). Is it true?

hh

For extreme tests is here a page that loads six modules into one
page (of course only once the 27 MByte of .js + .mem).

US: http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/cluster6modules.html
EU: http://hyperhh.org/html5/cluster6modules.html



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Acceptable-load-speed-of-HTML5-standalones-tp4702197.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Mar 14 05:18:00 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 01:18:00 -0800
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <D30BC075.7CC96%scott@tactilemedia.com>

A few people have asked for specifics about the controls included in the
tmControl2 package.  I've updated the product page with a visual list of
the controls:  http://tmtools.tactilemedia.com/tmcontrol2/

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/10/16, 10:43 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

>Happy to announce a major new update of my tmControl2 iOS control set for
>LiveCode with tons of fixes and lots of new features. A limited time
>discount is available for new and existing customers.
>
>Get the full details here:
>http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/10/announcement-tmcontrol2-v2-2/
>





From dave at applicationinsight.com  Mon Mar 14 06:58:29 2016
From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 03:58:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: $_SESSION not working on LiveCode Server 7.1.3-rc-1
Message-ID: <1457953109885-4702200.post@n4.nabble.com>

Just a quick note to anyone who might be experiencing weirdness in their .lc
scripts ... it's not you it's LiveCode 7 not managing $_SESSION properly

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14452



-----
"The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time."
Peter M. Brigham 
--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/SESSION-not-working-on-LiveCode-Server-7-1-3-rc-1-tp4702200.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 10:53:19 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:53:19 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
Message-ID: <502319DF-A9AF-428C-AC3D-B3825343B2F3@icloud.com>


Consider:

--------

on resizeStack pWidth,pHeight
   myUpdateGeometry
   dispatch "refreshChart" to group "netWorthChart"
   --pass resizeStack
end resizeStack

The docs say:

The resizeStack message <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/dictionary/keyword/2063.xml> is sent after the resizing is finished. If the stack's <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/glossary/s/48.xml> liveResizing <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/dictionary/property/1233.xml> property <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/glossary/p/257.xml> is true, resizeStack messages <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/glossary/m/219.xml> are sent continuously during resizing...

The screen is locked while a resizeStack handler <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/glossary/h/512.xml> is running, so it is not necessary to use the lock screen <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/dictionary/command/2470.xml> command <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/glossary/c/402.xml> to prevent changes from being seen. (However, the lockScreen <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/dictionary/property/965.xml> property <applewebdata://B4F1B5D6-C3FD-4383-AA1E-02B834B4F908/glossary/p/257.xml> is not set to true.)

-----------

1. If you drag a window to resize it, the resize message is sent more than once?

2. and resizeStack is called each time? Is the screen locked more than once and is it accumulative.

3. Does resizeStack automatically unlock the screen after each pass?

4. Do multiple resizeStack messages get sent by LC even though myUpdateGeometry and dispatch ?refreshChart? may not have completed (if they are long scripts)?

5. Is it necessary to call lock screen in myUpdateGeometry and dispatch ?refreshChart??



Why am I asking?

Because I get a weird screen flash in ?refreshChart? if the first line of the script is not unlock screen.


Thanks

Terry



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 10:58:10 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:58:10 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
Message-ID: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>

Resent message because of copy/paste from docs did not work well.



Consider:

--------

on resizeStack pWidth,pHeight
   myUpdateGeometry
   dispatch "refreshChart" to group "netWorthChart"
   --pass resizeStack
end resizeStack

The docs say:

The resizeStack message is sent after the resizing is finished. If the stacks live resizing property is true, resizeStack messages are sent continuously during resizing...

The screen is locked while a resizeStack handler is running, so it is not necessary to use the lock screen command to prevent changes from being seen. (However, the lockScreen propertyis not set to true.)

-----------

1. If you drag a window to resize it, the resize message is sent more than once?

2. and resizeStack is called each time? Is the screen locked more than once and is it accumulative.

3. Does resizeStack automatically unlock the screen after each pass?

4. Do multiple resizeStack messages get sent by LC even though myUpdateGeometry and dispatch ?refreshChart? may not have completed (if they are long scripts)?

5. Is it necessary to call lock screen in myUpdateGeometry and dispatch ?refreshChart??



Why am I asking?

Because I get a weird screen flash in ?refreshChart? if the first line of the script is not unlock screen.


Thanks

Terry

From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon Mar 14 11:29:44 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:29:44 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <009401d17e06$55fa0fd0$01ee2f70$@net>

1) The resizestack message is sent once is live resizing if off. If live resizing is on then a whole bunch of messages get stacked up if you grab a corner and resize the stack. If you resizing code is fast enough then resizing will look seamless, if your resizing takes too long the it will be jerky.

2) The screen is automatically locked/unlocked for each message. You don?t have to worry about it.

3) I would not do any dispatching or sending in time in a resizestack handler. This is probably the source of your flashing. Get the work done and then pass the resizestack message to the engine. I found out that sometimes things can go sideways if you don?t pass the resizestack message.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Terence Heaford
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 10:58 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack

Resent message because of copy/paste from docs did not work well.



Consider:

--------

on resizeStack pWidth,pHeight
   myUpdateGeometry
   dispatch "refreshChart" to group "netWorthChart"
   --pass resizeStack
end resizeStack

The docs say:

The resizeStack message is sent after the resizing is finished. If the stacks live resizing property is true, resizeStack messages are sent continuously during resizing...

The screen is locked while a resizeStack handler is running, so it is not necessary to use the lock screen command to prevent changes from being seen. (However, the lockScreen propertyis not set to true.)

-----------

1. If you drag a window to resize it, the resize message is sent more than once?

2. and resizeStack is called each time? Is the screen locked more than once and is it accumulative.

3. Does resizeStack automatically unlock the screen after each pass?

4. Do multiple resizeStack messages get sent by LC even though myUpdateGeometry and dispatch ?refreshChart? may not have completed (if they are long scripts)?

5. Is it necessary to call lock screen in myUpdateGeometry and dispatch ?refreshChart??



Why am I asking?

Because I get a weird screen flash in ?refreshChart? if the first line of the script is not unlock screen.


Thanks

Terry
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 11:39:54 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 15:39:54 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <009401d17e06$55fa0fd0$01ee2f70$@net>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<009401d17e06$55fa0fd0$01ee2f70$@net>
Message-ID: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>


> On 14 Mar 2016, at 15:29, Ralph DiMola <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:
> 
> 3) I would not do any dispatching or sending in time in a resizestack handler. This is probably the source of your flashing. Get the work done and then pass the resizestack message to the engine. I found out that sometimes things can go sideways if you don?t pass the resizestack message.


Sorry, I don?t quite understand what you are saying.

I am using the resizeStack message to know that the window has changed size, then I call a routine that redraws a chart. I need to send or dispatch to the group that will contain the chart.

How else can I do it?



Thanks


Terry




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon Mar 14 11:57:59 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:57:59 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>	<009401d17e06$55fa0fd0$01ee2f70$@net>
	<0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <00a601d17e0a$48978f80$d9c6ae80$@net>

I went through this a while back(3 years or so). If I recall J. Landman Gay helped me on this.
I believe(someone correct me if I'm wrong) if you do a "send in 0 seconds" It will in effect do call and return control to the resizestack handler. If I'm correct then this method would work for you.

I just moved all my resizing code to the stack and made the problem go away. I have one routine for each card that is named for each card(resize_card1name,resize_card2name)and a master routine that is called from the resizestack message that does a "do ("resize_"&the short name of this card)"

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Terence Heaford
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 11:40 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack


> On 14 Mar 2016, at 15:29, Ralph DiMola <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:
> 
> 3) I would not do any dispatching or sending in time in a resizestack handler. This is probably the source of your flashing. Get the work done and then pass the resizestack message to the engine. I found out that sometimes things can go sideways if you don?t pass the resizestack message.


Sorry, I don?t quite understand what you are saying.

I am using the resizeStack message to know that the window has changed size, then I call a routine that redraws a chart. I need to send or dispatch to the group that will contain the chart.

How else can I do it?



Thanks


Terry


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 12:35:00 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 16:35:00 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <00a601d17e0a$48978f80$d9c6ae80$@net>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<009401d17e06$55fa0fd0$01ee2f70$@net>
	<0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<00a601d17e0a$48978f80$d9c6ae80$@net>
Message-ID: <DD48E23B-9B40-417C-9C42-0C005C11F090@icloud.com>

I have tried send in 0 seconds and read the docs.

Using in 0 seconds seems to just delay the send call until all resizeStack messages have been completed.

It does not allow the resizing of the chart dynamically as the size of the window is resized only on completion of the resizing process.


Thanks

Terry


> On 14 Mar 2016, at 15:57, Ralph DiMola <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:
> 
> I went through this a while back(3 years or so). If I recall J. Landman Gay helped me on this.
> I believe(someone correct me if I'm wrong) if you do a "send in 0 seconds" It will in effect do call and return control to the resizestack handler. If I'm correct then this method would work for you.
> 
> I just moved all my resizing code to the stack and made the problem go away. I have one routine for each card that is named for each card(resize_card1name,resize_card2name)and a master routine that is called from the resizestack message that does a "do ("resize_"&the short name of this card)"
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Terence Heaford
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 11:40 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Subject: Re: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
> 
> 
>> On 14 Mar 2016, at 15:29, Ralph DiMola <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 3) I would not do any dispatching or sending in time in a resizestack handler. This is probably the source of your flashing. Get the work done and then pass the resizestack message to the engine. I found out that sometimes things can go sideways if you don?t pass the resizestack message.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don?t quite understand what you are saying.
> 
> I am using the resizeStack message to know that the window has changed size, then I call a routine that redraws a chart. I need to send or dispatch to the group that will contain the chart.
> 
> How else can I do it?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Terry
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Mar 14 12:59:14 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:59:14 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
References: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>

Terence Heaford wrote:
 > I am using the resizeStack message to know that the window has
 > changed size, then I call a routine that redraws a chart. I need
 > to send or dispatch to the group that will contain the chart.
 >
 > How else can I do it?

The simplest and most with-the-grain way to do it is to use the messages 
the engine is already providing.

So rather than write this:

on resizeStack pWidth,pHeight
    myUpdateGeometry
    dispatch "refreshChart" to group "netWorthChart"
    --pass resizeStack
end resizeStack

... you could write this:

on resizeStack pWidth,pHeight
    myUpdateGeometry
    set the rect of grp "netWorthChart" to the rect of me
    --- ...or whatever rect is desired
end resizeStack

The in the "netWorthChart" group you can trap the resizeControl message:

on resizeControl
    refreshChart
end resizeControl

In very old versions of LC (> 4 years old) the resizeControl message was 
only sent to objects when they were resized interactively by the user 
manipulating the selection handles with the pointer tool.

With the advent of custom controls this was changes some time in the v5 
series so that a group can receive the resizeControl message ANY time 
it's resized, whether interactively or via script.

Apparently this powerful change to the resizeControl message hasn't made 
its way into that Dictionary entry yet, so I just filed a report for that:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17118

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Mar 14 13:06:55 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:06:55 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <009401d17e06$55fa0fd0$01ee2f70$@net>
References: <009401d17e06$55fa0fd0$01ee2f70$@net>
Message-ID: <56E6EFAF.1090908@fourthworld.com>

Ralph DiMola wrote:

 > 1) The resizestack message is sent once is live resizing if off. If
 > live resizing is on then a whole bunch of messages get stacked up
 > if you grab a corner and resize the stack. If you resizing code is
 > fast enough then resizing will look seamless, if your resizing takes
 > too long the it will be jerky.

FWIW in v8 and possibly earlier liveResizing is always on, and the 
liveResizing stack property has been deprecated.

OS X, Windows, and Linux don't offer two modes for resizing; that was 
allowed for legacy Mac OS 9 apps using older APIs under OS X.

In recent OS X versions all windows are expected to resize in real-time, 
as with the other OSes, so there's no longer a need for this property.

Indeed, in discussing this with Mark it seems it would be somewhat 
tricky to try to provide behavior specific to older OSes in a newer OS 
that doesn't support it.


Related reports:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14840
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5331

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Mar 14 13:20:47 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:20:47 -0500
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <00a601d17e0a$48978f80$d9c6ae80$@net>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<009401d17e06$55fa0fd0$01ee2f70$@net>
	<0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<00a601d17e0a$48978f80$d9c6ae80$@net>
Message-ID: <1537624f598.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

On March 14, 2016 10:56:32 AM "Ralph DiMola" <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:

> I believe(someone correct me if I'm wrong) if you do a "send in 0 seconds" 
> It will in effect do call and return control to the resizestack handler.

Sending a message in 0 puts it at the front of the queue but it still won't 
execute until the next idle. To execute immediately and then continue with 
the rest of the handler, just send without a specified time.

But Richard's suggestion is cleaner.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com





From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 14:34:28 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 18:34:28 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>
References: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>


> On 14 Mar 2016, at 16:59, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> on resizeControl
>   refreshChart
> end resizeControl

Obviously, this works but does not cure the occasional flash that occurs when reproducing the chart.

I suspect perhaps the script along with all the resizeControl messages is making it difficult for the engine to keep up?

I can?t think of another reason. I am sure the script could be optimised.

Could anyone suggest areas that are particularly time consuming that I could look at that may improve performance.

I am already using lock messages.



Thanks

Terry

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Mar 14 14:39:53 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:39:53 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>

Terence Heaford wrote:

 >> On 14 Mar 2016, at 16:59, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> on resizeControl
 >>   refreshChart
 >> end resizeControl
 >
 > Obviously, this works but does not cure the occasional flash that
 > occurs when reproducing the chart.
 >
 > I suspect perhaps the script along with all the resizeControl
 > messages is making it difficult for the engine to keep up?

I think it may be subtler than that, but more easily fixed:

When the contents of a group are resized, by default the group enclosing 
them is resized to fit.

So if you set the lockLoc of the group (and here I tend to set that for 
objects in groups as well, just to avoid my accidentally moving them 
while working) you should find it resizes more gracefully.

Also, unless you need the margin you may find it helpful to set the 
group's margin to 0.  If you leave it at the default of 4 and move its 
internal contents to any edge of the group, when the group's lockLoc is 
true the internal objects will render clipped, and when the lockLoc is 
false the group will expand by 4px to accommodate the control.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 15:09:50 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:09:50 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>


> On 14 Mar 2016, at 18:39, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> I think it may be subtler than that, but more easily fixed:
> 
> When the contents of a group are resized, by default the group enclosing them is resized to fit.
> 
> So if you set the lockLoc of the group (and here I tend to set that for objects in groups as well, just to avoid my accidentally moving them while working) you should find it resizes more gracefully.
> 
> Also, unless you need the margin you may find it helpful to set the group's margin to 0.  If you leave it at the default of 4 and move its internal contents to any edge of the group, when the group's lockLoc is true the internal objects will render clipped, and when the lockLoc is false the group will expand by 4px to accommodate the control.


All the objects forming the chart have their lockLoc set to true already.

I think perhaps I am asking to much of the engine as when resizeControl is received I don?t actually reposition/resize all the objects in the chart (90+), I actually delete the objects and recreate the chart.

There?s a lot more work involved in repositioning and resizing than recreating.

Thanks

Terry

From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 15:15:39 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:15:39 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
	<DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <32B523DC-DA90-4A54-BEE9-8BE8564F520B@icloud.com>

Interestingly, in OSX when you zoom full screen (which is a resize) it is as smooth as silk.

I am not sure how this works but it is a shame we (OSX users) cannot have access to this mechanism from within resizeControl or resizeStack.

No good for other but Mac users would probably love access to this.



Thanks


terry


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Mar 14 15:17:02 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:17:02 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
	<DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E70E2E.2000108@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/14/2016 12:09 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:

> I think perhaps I am asking to much of the engine as when resizeControl is received I don?t actually reposition/resize all the objects in the chart (90+), I actually delete the objects and recreate the chart.

Ah. In that case, try locking the screen, moving the stack off screen 
(say to -5000,-5000), recreate the graph, move the stack back into its 
original location, and unlock the screen.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 15:43:11 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:43:11 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <56E70E2E.2000108@ahsoftware.net>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
	<DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
	<56E70E2E.2000108@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <722152C8-27BB-4C52-B871-54033A5BF3A6@icloud.com>


> On 14 Mar 2016, at 19:17, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> On 03/14/2016 12:09 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
> 
>> I think perhaps I am asking to much of the engine as when resizeControl is received I don?t actually reposition/resize all the objects in the chart (90+), I actually delete the objects and recreate the chart.
> 
> Ah. In that case, try locking the screen, moving the stack off screen (say to -5000,-5000), recreate the graph, move the stack back into its original location, and unlock the screen.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com

Thanks for the suggestion tried this without success:

on drawBarChart
   lock screen
   lock messages
   
   put the topLeft of this stack into tTopLeft
   set the topLeft of this stack to -5000,-5000
   
   deleteChart
   set the charts["chartType"] of me to "bar"
   if the charts["data"] of me is not empty then
      drawBackground
      drawTitle
      drawVertAxis
      drawVertAxisGrids
      drawVertAxisTicks
      drawVertAxisLabels
      drawVertAxisTitle
      drawHorizAxisGrids
      drawHorizAxis
      drawHorizAxisTicks
      drawHorizAxisLabels
      drawHorizAxisTitle
      drawDataLabels
      drawLegend
      drawDataBars
      createDataDisplayField
   end if
   
   set the topLeft of this stack to tTopLeft
   
   unlock messages
   unlock screen
   
end drawBarChart



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Mar 14 15:48:42 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:48:42 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <722152C8-27BB-4C52-B871-54033A5BF3A6@icloud.com>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
	<DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
	<56E70E2E.2000108@ahsoftware.net>
	<722152C8-27BB-4C52-B871-54033A5BF3A6@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E7159A.70304@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/14/2016 12:43 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
>     set the topLeft of this stack to -5000,-5000

    set the loc of this stack to -5000,-5000

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 15:48:49 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:48:49 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <722152C8-27BB-4C52-B871-54033A5BF3A6@icloud.com>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
	<DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
	<56E70E2E.2000108@ahsoftware.net>
	<722152C8-27BB-4C52-B871-54033A5BF3A6@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <07CDB3B7-121F-4C4F-8E03-0D9080DB8FB5@icloud.com>

Also just tried hide this stack and show this stack and the whole stack window flashes instead of just the group.

Could we now be talking a bug?


Thanks

Terry






> On 14 Mar 2016, at 19:43, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 14 Mar 2016, at 19:17, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On 03/14/2016 12:09 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> 
>>> I think perhaps I am asking to much of the engine as when resizeControl is received I don?t actually reposition/resize all the objects in the chart (90+), I actually delete the objects and recreate the chart.
>> 
>> Ah. In that case, try locking the screen, moving the stack off screen (say to -5000,-5000), recreate the graph, move the stack back into its original location, and unlock the screen.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion tried this without success:
> 
> on drawBarChart
>   lock screen
>   lock messages
> 
>   put the topLeft of this stack into tTopLeft
>   set the topLeft of this stack to -5000,-5000
> 
>   deleteChart
>   set the charts["chartType"] of me to "bar"
>   if the charts["data"] of me is not empty then
>      drawBackground
>      drawTitle
>      drawVertAxis
>      drawVertAxisGrids
>      drawVertAxisTicks
>      drawVertAxisLabels
>      drawVertAxisTitle
>      drawHorizAxisGrids
>      drawHorizAxis
>      drawHorizAxisTicks
>      drawHorizAxisLabels
>      drawHorizAxisTitle
>      drawDataLabels
>      drawLegend
>      drawDataBars
>      createDataDisplayField
>   end if
> 
>   set the topLeft of this stack to tTopLeft
> 
>   unlock messages
>   unlock screen
> 
> end drawBarChart
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Mar 14 16:50:13 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:50:13 -0800
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
References: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>
	<787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <D30C60EE.7CD22%scott@tactilemedia.com>

If you're using LiveCode 7, the flashing may be an artifact that occurs
purely from redrawing/refreshing the screen.  I've noticed this here, but
don't have any reliable recipe that causes it.

In any event, locking the screen and locking messages are the main steps
to take, making sure to unlock at the end of your resizing handlers.
Groups (assuming your chart is a group) have a lockUpdates property that
might help with redrawing, but I don't know if this would make any
difference with regards to screen flashing.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/14/16, 10:34 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terence Heaford"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of t.heaford at icloud.com>
wrote:

>
>> On 14 Mar 2016, at 16:59, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>>wrote:
>> 
>> on resizeControl
>>   refreshChart
>> end resizeControl
>
>Obviously, this works but does not cure the occasional flash that occurs
>when reproducing the chart.
>
>I suspect perhaps the script along with all the resizeControl messages is
>making it difficult for the engine to keep up?
>
>I can?t think of another reason. I am sure the script could be optimised.
>
>Could anyone suggest areas that are particularly time consuming that I
>could look at that may improve performance.
>
>I am already using lock messages.
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Terry
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 15:51:24 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:51:24 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <56E7159A.70304@ahsoftware.net>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
	<DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
	<56E70E2E.2000108@ahsoftware.net>
	<722152C8-27BB-4C52-B871-54033A5BF3A6@icloud.com>
	<56E7159A.70304@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <A61A5BE1-C368-4C9A-A174-4C064BD4AA9E@icloud.com>

Have tried this as well.

Thanks

Terry


> On 14 Mar 2016, at 19:48, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> set the loc of this stack to -5000,-5000



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 14 15:58:59 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:58:59 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <D30C60EE.7CD22%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>
	<787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<D30C60EE.7CD22%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <C3CBACA1-781D-44EC-9D94-F59C73AA8718@icloud.com>

I am using 6.7.9 but it happens in 7.1.2 and 8.0 (dp15).

lockUpdates did not make any difference.

Thanks

Terry

> On 14 Mar 2016, at 20:50, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> 
> If you're using LiveCode 7, the flashing may be an artifact that occurs
> purely from redrawing/refreshing the screen.  I've noticed this here, but
> don't have any reliable recipe that causes it.
> 
> In any event, locking the screen and locking messages are the main steps
> to take, making sure to unlock at the end of your resizing handlers.
> Groups (assuming your chart is a group) have a lockUpdates property that
> might help with redrawing, but I don't know if this would make any
> difference with regards to screen flashing.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Mar 14 16:11:26 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:11:26 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <A61A5BE1-C368-4C9A-A174-4C064BD4AA9E@icloud.com>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
	<DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
	<56E70E2E.2000108@ahsoftware.net>
	<722152C8-27BB-4C52-B871-54033A5BF3A6@icloud.com>
	<56E7159A.70304@ahsoftware.net>
	<A61A5BE1-C368-4C9A-A174-4C064BD4AA9E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E71AEE.9050208@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/14/2016 12:51 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
> Have tried this as well.

Bummer.
Try blinking really fast.
(sorry - I'm out of ideas)

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 14 16:36:56 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:36:56 +0200
Subject: Modularity
Message-ID: <56E720E8.5040600@gmail.com>

A while back there was some talk about making it possible that when
one wanted to export standalones from Livecode one could choose what 
capabilities to
include and which to exclude.

Recently "elsewhere" a chap working with Livecode was complaining about 
the 'bloat'
in a standalone between the 6 series and the 7 series (he's going to go 
seriously sour when he sees 8)
because he is trying to squeeze standalones onto Android devices with 
limited storage.

So; what chance "modularity" (if that's what the thing is callled) in 
the foreseeable future?

Richmond.



From brahma at hindu.org  Mon Mar 14 19:00:50 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 23:00:50 +0000
Subject: Re-Render Card-image that has moved on disk
In-Reply-To: <E8774D7C-5EC8-4FB1-8BC4-1F34A32FA5D6@appisle.net>
References: <etPan.56e4ce78.6193e9fc.28d@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<E8774D7C-5EC8-4FB1-8BC4-1F34A32FA5D6@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <etPan.56e742a1.73c07ca0.6fd2@Brahmanathaswami.local>

I think it's imageCacheLimit

On March 12, 2016 at 5:03:13 PM, Monte Goulding (monte at appisle.net<mailto:monte at appisle.net>) wrote:

There has been an image cache for a while. You can clear it by setting the imageCacheSize (I think that's the name of the property) to 0 then back to whatever it was.

From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Mar 14 19:32:05 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 23:32:05 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
References: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>
	<787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E749F5.4020905@tweedly.net>

I've not (yet) had to deal with particularly complex resize needs, so 
I've never run into the problem of not keeping up.

But I've always had in the back of my mind the following idea (i.e. 
check it out, don't assume I know what I'm talking about :-)

the system is going to throw a series of resizeStack message at you ...
in the time it takes you to do one (if it's time-consuming), there may 
be multiple more waiting for you ...

So - at the start of a resizeStack, it may be worth checking the 
pendingMessages to see if there are already further resizes in the 
queue, and if there are, just skip the current one (since you will 
almost immediately do the next one).

-- Alex.



On 14/03/2016 18:34, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> On 14 Mar 2016, at 16:59, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> on resizeControl
>>    refreshChart
>> end resizeControl
> Obviously, this works but does not cure the occasional flash that occurs when reproducing the chart.
>
> I suspect perhaps the script along with all the resizeControl messages is making it difficult for the engine to keep up?
>
> I can?t think of another reason. I am sure the script could be optimised.
>
> Could anyone suggest areas that are particularly time consuming that I could look at that may improve performance.
>
> I am already using lock messages.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Mon Mar 14 19:32:58 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:32:58 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>
References: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56E74A2A.3060201@researchware.com>

On 3/14/2016 12:59 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> on resizeControl
>    refreshChart
> end resizeControl
>

Just a caution for folks following this discussion of resizeStack, per
Richard's suggestion, I've found the use of resizeControl to be a great
way to modularize window geometry.

However, as of LiveCode 6.7.6, resizeControl is not sent to a disabled
control when it's rectangle is changed. This is in keeping with messages
not sent to disabled controls (like mouseDown, mosueUp, etc.) and yet it
seems like a bug to me since whether a control is disabled or not, you
probably want to have it resize when the window is resizing.

I have not checked to see if resizeControl not being sent to disabled
controls was ever entered as a bug or whether it is still an issue in
LC7 or LC8.





From colinholgate at gmail.com  Mon Mar 14 22:11:46 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:11:46 -0400
Subject: free book
Message-ID: <39D1262E-CD2D-4B4A-A6F9-89873726711E@gmail.com>

Richard kindly posted this link in Facebook:

https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning

It?s a free copy of the first edition of the book I wrote.


From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar 15 01:08:28 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:08:28 +0000
Subject: iOS Simulator Behaves Strangely in LC8DP15
Message-ID: <etPan.56e798cb.64112825.6fd2@Brahmanathaswami.local>

We are kicking off development of a new app.

I developing this from ground zero in LC8 (dp 15)

LC --> Preferences --> Mobile Support --> iOS SDKs
#  giving me a green light
Available device SDKs: 9.2
Available simulators: 9.2

Stack is set to fullscreenMode showAll

But when I run it in the simulator

1) I don't really get the size of iPhone 6Plus.. instead I get a rect that fills my entire cinema display top to bottom but about 1028 left-to right,

2) and the stack is inside it at some bizarre huge size with scroll bars.

Is this known/broken? or is there something I need to do?

Also if I actually try a build... I get several screens full of errors.

Are we premature trying to build for iOS from LC 8 (Indy)? Anyone else having better luck?



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar 15 03:28:54 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 07:28:54 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <56E71AEE.9050208@ahsoftware.net>
References: <787FE49E-F76B-4387-AE4D-92AE356E82A2@icloud.com>
	<56E70579.1090809@fourthworld.com>
	<DFD037CD-F06C-427D-9A4B-DACF5E4EDD7F@icloud.com>
	<56E70E2E.2000108@ahsoftware.net>
	<722152C8-27BB-4C52-B871-54033A5BF3A6@icloud.com>
	<56E7159A.70304@ahsoftware.net>
	<A61A5BE1-C368-4C9A-A174-4C064BD4AA9E@icloud.com>
	<56E71AEE.9050208@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <29B67582-E8A7-4A94-8BF6-D38AB21566E6@icloud.com>

I thought I would do 


put the milliseconds into tStart

Put the milliseconds - tStart


because I was thinking of going through and optimising all the script but had second thoughts when I saw the result.

On dragging, to create the chart was only taking 4 to 5 milliseconds but when the group flashed it jumped to between 30 and 40 milliseconds.

There would seem to be something peculiar going on.

For context I would say on dragging the size of the window the flash happens every few seconds. The flash is not consistent.


All the best

Terry



> On 14 Mar 2016, at 20:11, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> On 03/14/2016 12:51 PM, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> Have tried this as well.
> 
> Bummer.
> Try blinking really fast.
> (sorry - I'm out of ideas)
> 




From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar 15 04:51:27 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:51:27 +0100
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <56E74A2A.3060201@researchware.com>
References: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com> <56E74A2A.3060201@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <9df11d3e300b8e6ccbd6723f486382fa@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-15 00:32, Paul Dupuis wrote:
> However, as of LiveCode 6.7.6, resizeControl is not sent to a disabled
> control when it's rectangle is changed. This is in keeping with 
> messages
> not sent to disabled controls (like mouseDown, mosueUp, etc.) and yet 
> it
> seems like a bug to me since whether a control is disabled or not, you
> probably want to have it resize when the window is resizing.

I tried this in 6.6.2 and the behavior was the same - if the group is 
disabled then no resizeControl message is sent. The current behavior 
(which appears to have remained unchanged forever) is that if the engine 
sends a message to an object via the 'normal' code path then if the tool 
is browse and the object is disabled then the message is passed 
immediately.

This affects all the event related messages, as well as things like 
resizeControl, openControl, closeControl. It does not affect set/get 
prop messages though.

> I have not checked to see if resizeControl not being sent to disabled
> controls was ever entered as a bug or whether it is still an issue in
> LC7 or LC8.

As mentioned above, this behavior does not seem to have changed in a 
long time so it is odd that you should notice problems in your app 
between pre-6.7.6 and 6.7.6.

Is this a bug? Yes - I think so.

The way the engine code is currently structured for disabled controls 
means that they should never receive mouse/focus related messages anyway 
(i.e. they should never be sent in the first place) as disabled controls 
don't participate in hit testing for mouse events and they are skipped 
over for keyboard focus events. (There's a whole other question here as 
to whether that is actual the best way to work as I suspect it is a 
side-effect of the 'action' of various UI elements in LiveCode being 
tied to mouse messages - i.e. you get mouseUp when a button has been 
clicked upon rather than an explicit 'action' type message).

Anyway, I couldn't find any report of this in the quality center so I 
filed it here: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17123

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From neil at livecode.com  Tue Mar 15 04:58:51 2016
From: neil at livecode.com (Neil Roger)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:58:51 +0000
Subject: iOS Simulator Behaves Strangely in LC8DP15
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56e798cb.64112825.6fd2@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56e798cb.64112825.6fd2@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56E7CECB.6090806@livecode.com>

Hi Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami,

I've been working with 8.0 DP15 for iOS builds and have not come across 
any major stumbling blocks.

In regards to the simultor size, this sounds like a simulator scaling 
issue on your display. You should be able to resolve this by selecting 
one of the scale options via the iOs simulators "Window--->Scale" menu 
option.

For the iOS build, if the error messages persist after multiple build 
attempts, please submit a bug report with our QC team and we will 
happily investigate further-

http://quality.livecode.com

Kind Regards,

Neil


	

LiveCode Technical Support and Content Creation Lead
neil at livecode.com <mailto:neil at livecode.com>

LiveCode
+44 (0) 845 219 8923.
25A Thistle Street Lane South West, Edinburgh, EH2 1EW
http://www.livecode.com

Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/pages/LiveCode/121318328010780> 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/livecode> Youtube 
<https://www.youtube.com/user/RunRevLtd> Linkedin 
<https://github.com/runrev/livecode>


On 15/03/2016 05:08, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> We are kicking off development of a new app.
>
> I developing this from ground zero in LC8 (dp 15)
>
> LC --> Preferences --> Mobile Support --> iOS SDKs
> #  giving me a green light
> Available device SDKs: 9.2
> Available simulators: 9.2
>
> Stack is set to fullscreenMode showAll
>
> But when I run it in the simulator
>
> 1) I don't really get the size of iPhone 6Plus.. instead I get a rect that fills my entire cinema display top to bottom but about 1028 left-to right,
>
> 2) and the stack is inside it at some bizarre huge size with scroll bars.
>
> Is this known/broken? or is there something I need to do?
>
> Also if I actually try a build... I get several screens full of errors.
>
> Are we premature trying to build for iOS from LC 8 (Indy)? Anyone else having better luck?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar 15 05:03:18 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:03:18 +0100
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
In-Reply-To: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <ef675ff74083a3a1e038c2ee13b6818e@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-14 15:58, Terence Heaford wrote:
> 1. If you drag a window to resize it, the resize message is sent more 
> than once?

The OS dispatches a sequence of window resize requests, which the engine 
acts upon in turn.

> 2. and resizeStack is called each time? Is the screen locked more than
> once and is it accumulative.

The screen is locked around the entire dispatch of resizeStack - however 
the engine uses the same lock screen counter and mechanism as script 
does, so if you unlock screen in your resizeStack handler the engine 
will try and update the screen after each command. Whether or not this 
has a pleasant effect will likely depend on the OS.

> 3. Does resizeStack automatically unlock the screen after each pass?

Yes.

> 4. Do multiple resizeStack messages get sent by LC even though
> myUpdateGeometry and dispatch ?refreshChart? may not have completed
> (if they are long scripts)?

No - the engine only executes one handler at a time and if the screen is 
locked then resizes are suspended until it is unlocked again. The net 
effect being, assuming you don't unlock the screen, then you won't get 
any recursive invocations of resizeStack.

> 5. Is it necessary to call lock screen in myUpdateGeometry and
> dispatch ?refreshChart??

No - the screen is implicitly locked before the resizeStack message is 
sent, and unlocked afterwards. Then the screen is explicitly updated.

> Because I get a weird screen flash in ?refreshChart? if the first line
> of the script is not unlock screen.

Without actually seeing the flash and the code it is very difficulty to 
diagnose what the problem is. If you file a bug in the quality center 
with a sample stack and recipe, we can take a look.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar 15 05:15:24 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:15:24 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
In-Reply-To: <ef675ff74083a3a1e038c2ee13b6818e@livecode.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<ef675ff74083a3a1e038c2ee13b6818e@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <7AA3DD84-AF7D-4258-B90D-58E1D167329B@icloud.com>


> On 15 Mar 2016, at 09:03, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
>> 5. Is it necessary to call lock screen in myUpdateGeometry and
>> dispatch ?refreshChart??
> 
> No - the screen is implicitly locked before the resizeStack message is sent, and unlocked afterwards. Then the screen is explicitly updated.


Does having a lock and unlock screen pair in refreshChart have any detrimental effect when it is called from resizeStack?

Does having a lock and unlock messages pair in refreshChart have any detrimental effect when it is called from resizeStack?


Will try to put together a test stack and video grab of the screen flash.

I am using an iMac, El Capitan.

Thanks

Terry

From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar 15 05:20:38 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:20:38 +0100
Subject: Modularity
In-Reply-To: <56E720E8.5040600@gmail.com>
References: <56E720E8.5040600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9f44bac59c83e77137a993fda0498673@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-14 21:36, RM wrote:
> Recently "elsewhere" a chap working with Livecode was complaining
> about the 'bloat'
> in a standalone between the 6 series and the 7 series (he's going to
> go seriously sour when he sees 8)
> because he is trying to squeeze standalones onto Android devices with
> limited storage.

Some empirical data - for a blank stack saved for Android, the size of 
the APK in each is:

    LiveCode 6.7 - 2.4Mb
    LiveCode 7.1 - 6Mb
    LiveCode 8.0 - 6.3Mb

What people see as 'bloat' between 6.7 and 7.1 is nothing more than the 
Unicode data tables which are essential if you actually want text to be 
processed correctly and efficiently - the actual code size of the engine 
has not changed much.

The difference between 7.1 and 8.0 is most likely due to the increased 
internal symbol table that 8.0 needs to have at present to support LCB 
*modules* - if you want modularity then you need to store the 
information to bind the modules together and this does take a little 
space at present. (Although we do have a plan to do the matching up at 
standalone build time at some point - which would eliminate the need for 
the extra symbol tables - assuming the standalone does not want to load 
modules dynamically).

> So; what chance "modularity" (if that's what the thing is callled) in
> the foreseeable future?

Well, the refactoring was the start to getting to 'modularity' - 
previously the code for any piece of syntax was grouped under the first 
word of the piece of syntax even if they covered completely different 
areas, now code is grouped by what it does and is separate from the code 
which parses and dispatches actions. There's still more work to do to 
modularise the existing engine feature set, but the critical part (the 
refactoring) has been done.

Apart from that, LCB modules are the mechanism by which such modularity 
will occur - for example, right now, if you don't ask to have the 
browser widget included then you don't pay the cost for CEF being put 
into your standalone on Desktop. (I should point out that, even if the 
code is still implemented in C++, LCB will be the formalism by which 
syntax is defined - when we get Open Language - and bound to the C++ 
methods implementing it, regardless of whether there is actually any LCB 
code needed).

It is worth point out, however, that the largest code carrying parts of 
the engine are already optional - that would be things like revXml, 
revDB and drivers, revBrowser etc. They are only included if you ask and 
they can be weighty because they include third-party libraries which are 
not necessarily modular and small in and of themselves.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar 15 05:22:58 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:22:58 +0100
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
In-Reply-To: <7AA3DD84-AF7D-4258-B90D-58E1D167329B@icloud.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<ef675ff74083a3a1e038c2ee13b6818e@livecode.com>
	<7AA3DD84-AF7D-4258-B90D-58E1D167329B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <65bea85959422191660cceb7a4a06cfe@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-15 10:15, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> On 15 Mar 2016, at 09:03, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 5. Is it necessary to call lock screen in myUpdateGeometry and
>>> dispatch ?refreshChart??
>> 
>> No - the screen is implicitly locked before the resizeStack message is 
>> sent, and unlocked afterwards. Then the screen is explicitly updated.
> 
> 
> Does having a lock and unlock screen pair in refreshChart have any
> detrimental effect when it is called from resizeStack?

The screen lock mechanism uses a counter. So as long as all your lock 
screens have a matching unlock screen which is executed then they will 
have no effect (due to the fact the counter will already be 1 before 
your resizeStack script runs).

> Does having a lock and unlock messages pair in refreshChart have any
> detrimental effect when it is called from resizeStack?

Again, the message lock mechanism is counter based. So as long as they 
are matched there would be no outward effect - apart from not having 
messages sent to your objects by the engine whilst the count > 1.

> Will try to put together a test stack and video grab of the screen 
> flash.
> 
> I am using an iMac, El Capitan.

Thanks!

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Mar 15 07:35:19 2016
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 07:35:19 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
In-Reply-To: <7AA3DD84-AF7D-4258-B90D-58E1D167329B@icloud.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<ef675ff74083a3a1e038c2ee13b6818e@livecode.com>
	<7AA3DD84-AF7D-4258-B90D-58E1D167329B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG8LH_EU6XP8X61+WXsMVMDK38DQq5nRCkaKkZL6KLWLbA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 5:15 AM, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com>
wrote:

>
> I am using an iMac, El Capitan.
>

This may have nothing to do with your code. El Capitan introduced some
changes that LiveCode doesn't handle properly yet. The result is that you
see your objects resizing on El Capitan (10.11) See this bug report:

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16566

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue Mar 15 08:40:42 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:40:42 -0400
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <D30BC075.7CC96%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<D30BC075.7CC96%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycM75GEZRbzOqbYUtjMWFV-y_hiZUb+c-MfFf9-6XwWSng@mail.gmail.com>

Did I mention how much I like using tmc for making sweet-looking apps?  2.2
is a gooooooood update.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:18 AM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> A few people have asked for specifics about the controls included in the
> tmControl2 package.  I've updated the product page with a visual list of
> the controls:  http://tmtools.tactilemedia.com/tmcontrol2/
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
> On 3/10/16, 10:43 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>
> >Happy to announce a major new update of my tmControl2 iOS control set for
> >LiveCode with tons of fixes and lots of new features. A limited time
> >discount is available for new and existing customers.
> >
> >Get the full details here:
> >http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/10/announcement-tmcontrol2-v2-2/
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From alain.vezina at logilangue.com  Tue Mar 15 08:42:37 2016
From: alain.vezina at logilangue.com (Alain Vezina)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:42:37 -0400
Subject: all my certificates were revoked
Message-ID: <EC05B2DF-B016-4FA8-A51B-6244AA9D5ACB@logilangue.com>

Hi all,

Yesterday I tried to load a new release of one of my apps (for Mac) to the app store but it failed : my signing was not valid.
So, I checked my certificate in xCode and in the keychain and I saw that all my certificates were revoked even if I did nothing for that. I got rid of all my old certificates and I downloaded new fresh certificates. Surprise!  they were all revoked.
I don?t understand what is going on. Is there a link with the problem Apple had with the app which allowed hackers to blackmail some users a few days ago?

Anybody experimented the same problem? Is there a solution?

Alain Vezina
Logilangue
www.logilangue.com





From paul at researchware.com  Tue Mar 15 09:03:08 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:03:08 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of Resizestack
In-Reply-To: <9df11d3e300b8e6ccbd6723f486382fa@livecode.com>
References: <0845BB3D-5FF8-44C2-8129-162743CB25E3@icloud.com>
	<56E6EDE2.9030306@fourthworld.com>
	<56E74A2A.3060201@researchware.com>
	<9df11d3e300b8e6ccbd6723f486382fa@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56E8080C.2050609@researchware.com>

On 3/15/2016 4:51 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> Anyway, I couldn't find any report of this in the quality center so I
> filed it here: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17123
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark. 

Mark,

Thank you for adding the bug. I have been aware of this "bug" for some
time, but never seemed to make the time to log it, which is bad of me. I
hate it when people find bugs in our product and never report them, so I
should make sure I do better at "upstream" reporting.

"resizeControl" not being received by disable controls is one of those
things I think folks that used it just discover and work-around. As in
most cases the resizing is being caused by a primary resizeStack
handler, in the resizeStack handler you can just add:

if the disabled of control x is true then
  send "resizeControl" to control x
end if

This, of course, causes the control to execute it's resizeControl
handler explicitly.

Still, it is best if you can use the engine native message management to
let changes happen, so thank you again for logging this bug.



From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Tue Mar 15 09:09:56 2016
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:09:56 +0000
Subject: all my certificates were revoked
In-Reply-To: <EC05B2DF-B016-4FA8-A51B-6244AA9D5ACB@logilangue.com>
References: <EC05B2DF-B016-4FA8-A51B-6244AA9D5ACB@logilangue.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-AR-eBGobFi9VgagawAcvEJu3deBhoS4apBRVO44G_EQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alain,

Scott Rossi posted this a month ago:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If any of you are having difficulty building iOS standalones today, you're
not alone. Apple's own Worldwide Developer Relations Certificate expired
yesterday (Feb 14) which will likely cause your developer certificates to
display with an "This certificate has an invalid user" error message, and
will prevent LiveCode from generating standalones with a "A valid signing
identity could not be found" error.  I was beyond irked trying to figure
why I could build standalones last week and not this week.

What solved the problem for me was to delete the Apple Worldwide Developer
Relations Certification Authority certificate from Keychain, and then
downloading and installing the certificate mentioned here:
https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/


Hope this saves a few people some aggravation.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps,
Panos
--



On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Alain Vezina <alain.vezina at logilangue.com>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Yesterday I tried to load a new release of one of my apps (for Mac) to the
> app store but it failed : my signing was not valid.
> So, I checked my certificate in xCode and in the keychain and I saw that
> all my certificates were revoked even if I did nothing for that. I got rid
> of all my old certificates and I downloaded new fresh certificates.
> Surprise!  they were all revoked.
> I don?t understand what is going on. Is there a link with the problem
> Apple had with the app which allowed hackers to blackmail some users a few
> days ago?
>
> Anybody experimented the same problem? Is there a solution?
>
> Alain Vezina
> Logilangue
> www.logilangue.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From alain.vezina at logilangue.com  Tue Mar 15 10:01:53 2016
From: alain.vezina at logilangue.com (Alain Vezina)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:01:53 -0400
Subject: all my certificates were revoked
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-AR-eBGobFi9VgagawAcvEJu3deBhoS4apBRVO44G_EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EC05B2DF-B016-4FA8-A51B-6244AA9D5ACB@logilangue.com>
	<CA+JfEq-AR-eBGobFi9VgagawAcvEJu3deBhoS4apBRVO44G_EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <279D210F-56BB-45E9-BF8E-3ED169F94C55@logilangue.com>

Hi Panagiotis,

I did it and now everything is OK.
How did I know that the  Apple Worldwide Developer
Relations Certification Authority has to be renewed? As far as I know, I didn?t receive any message from Apple.

Thanks Pannagiotis and Scott, you saved my developer life.

Regards,

Alain

Le 2016-03-15 ? 09:09, panagiotis merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com> a ?crit :

> Hi Alain,
> 
> Scott Rossi posted this a month ago:
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If any of you are having difficulty building iOS standalones today, you're
> not alone. Apple's own Worldwide Developer Relations Certificate expired
> yesterday (Feb 14) which will likely cause your developer certificates to
> display with an "This certificate has an invalid user" error message, and
> will prevent LiveCode from generating standalones with a "A valid signing
> identity could not be found" error.  I was beyond irked trying to figure
> why I could build standalones last week and not this week.
> 
> What solved the problem for me was to delete the Apple Worldwide Developer
> Relations Certification Authority certificate from Keychain, and then
> downloading and installing the certificate mentioned here:
> https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/
> 
> 
> Hope this saves a few people some aggravation.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Panos
> --
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Alain Vezina <alain.vezina at logilangue.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Yesterday I tried to load a new release of one of my apps (for Mac) to the
>> app store but it failed : my signing was not valid.
>> So, I checked my certificate in xCode and in the keychain and I saw that
>> all my certificates were revoked even if I did nothing for that. I got rid
>> of all my old certificates and I downloaded new fresh certificates.
>> Surprise!  they were all revoked.
>> I don?t understand what is going on. Is there a link with the problem
>> Apple had with the app which allowed hackers to blackmail some users a few
>> days ago?
>> 
>> Anybody experimented the same problem? Is there a solution?
>> 
>> Alain Vezina
>> Logilangue
>> www.logilangue.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Software Developer
> 
> Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Tue Mar 15 10:27:11 2016
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 14:27:11 +0000
Subject: all my certificates were revoked
In-Reply-To: <279D210F-56BB-45E9-BF8E-3ED169F94C55@logilangue.com>
References: <EC05B2DF-B016-4FA8-A51B-6244AA9D5ACB@logilangue.com>
	<CA+JfEq-AR-eBGobFi9VgagawAcvEJu3deBhoS4apBRVO44G_EQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<279D210F-56BB-45E9-BF8E-3ED169F94C55@logilangue.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_EON_Yv9Nnv9EZbx_Q8e3qCDrB-X-cisDS9vrVQ0BA8w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alain,

You are welcome. Well, some users said they received an email from Apple.
However, I did not receive any :)

Regards,
Panos
--

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:01 PM, Alain Vezina <alain.vezina at logilangue.com>
wrote:

> Hi Panagiotis,
>
> I did it and now everything is OK.
> How did I know that the  Apple Worldwide Developer
> Relations Certification Authority has to be renewed? As far as I know, I
> didn?t receive any message from Apple.
>
> Thanks Pannagiotis and Scott, you saved my developer life.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alain
>
> Le 2016-03-15 ? 09:09, panagiotis merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com> a
> ?crit :
>
> > Hi Alain,
> >
> > Scott Rossi posted this a month ago:
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > If any of you are having difficulty building iOS standalones today,
> you're
> > not alone. Apple's own Worldwide Developer Relations Certificate expired
> > yesterday (Feb 14) which will likely cause your developer certificates to
> > display with an "This certificate has an invalid user" error message, and
> > will prevent LiveCode from generating standalones with a "A valid signing
> > identity could not be found" error.  I was beyond irked trying to figure
> > why I could build standalones last week and not this week.
> >
> > What solved the problem for me was to delete the Apple Worldwide
> Developer
> > Relations Certification Authority certificate from Keychain, and then
> > downloading and installing the certificate mentioned here:
> > https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/
> >
> >
> > Hope this saves a few people some aggravation.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Scott Rossi
> > Creative Director
> > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Alain Vezina <
> alain.vezina at logilangue.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Yesterday I tried to load a new release of one of my apps (for Mac) to
> the
> >> app store but it failed : my signing was not valid.
> >> So, I checked my certificate in xCode and in the keychain and I saw that
> >> all my certificates were revoked even if I did nothing for that. I got
> rid
> >> of all my old certificates and I downloaded new fresh certificates.
> >> Surprise!  they were all revoked.
> >> I don?t understand what is going on. Is there a link with the problem
> >> Apple had with the app which allowed hackers to blackmail some users a
> few
> >> days ago?
> >>
> >> Anybody experimented the same problem? Is there a solution?
> >>
> >> Alain Vezina
> >> Logilangue
> >> www.logilangue.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
> > LiveCode Software Developer
> >
> > Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar 15 10:51:55 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 14:51:55 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG8LH_EU6XP8X61+WXsMVMDK38DQq5nRCkaKkZL6KLWLbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<ef675ff74083a3a1e038c2ee13b6818e@livecode.com>
	<7AA3DD84-AF7D-4258-B90D-58E1D167329B@icloud.com>
	<CAHg3tG8LH_EU6XP8X61+WXsMVMDK38DQq5nRCkaKkZL6KLWLbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BD8352B1-9C12-4C4A-B16D-E30FB0488EFF@icloud.com>


> On 15 Mar 2016, at 11:35, Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com> wrote:
> 
> This may have nothing to do with your code. El Capitan introduced some
> changes that LiveCode doesn't handle properly yet. The result is that you
> see your objects resizing on El Capitan (10.11) See this bug report:

Not sure whether this is relevant but I took a screen video and stepped through in QuickTime player and noted

when the screen flashes the chart only draws the grid lines and some of the text but not the bars of the column chart nor the legend.

This seems to last for 2 or three frames then all?s OK till the next flash.

Is this consistent with your bug or do you think this is something else?


Thanks


Terry

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Mar 15 11:26:35 2016
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:26:35 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
In-Reply-To: <BD8352B1-9C12-4C4A-B16D-E30FB0488EFF@icloud.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<ef675ff74083a3a1e038c2ee13b6818e@livecode.com>
	<7AA3DD84-AF7D-4258-B90D-58E1D167329B@icloud.com>
	<CAHg3tG8LH_EU6XP8X61+WXsMVMDK38DQq5nRCkaKkZL6KLWLbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BD8352B1-9C12-4C4A-B16D-E30FB0488EFF@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-wJtRBe7zOUjsyY6=mdiEAH-wuPKwfigF9r3fGQQS16Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tuesday, March 15, 2016, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com> wrote:

>
> > On 15 Mar 2016, at 11:35, Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > This may have nothing to do with your code. El Capitan introduced some
> > changes that LiveCode doesn't handle properly yet. The result is that you
> > see your objects resizing on El Capitan (10.11) See this bug report:
>
> Not sure whether this is relevant but I took a screen video and stepped
> through in QuickTime player and noted
>
> when the screen flashes the chart only draws the grid lines and some of
> the text but not the bars of the column chart nor the legend.
>
> This seems to last for 2 or three frames then all?s OK till the next flash.
>
> Is this consistent with your bug or do you think this is something else?
>

Sounds similar though I haven't done any frame by frame reviews. I just see
the actual resizing of objects going on during resize which shouldn't be
happening. If you can test your code on Windows or another version of OS X
then you can dermine if the issue is OS version specific.

-- 
Trevor DeVore


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 15 15:15:51 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:15:51 -0700
Subject: Modularity
In-Reply-To: <9f44bac59c83e77137a993fda0498673@livecode.com>
References: <9f44bac59c83e77137a993fda0498673@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56E85F67.4000209@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2016-03-14 21:36, RM wrote:
>> Recently "elsewhere" a chap working with Livecode was complaining
>> about the 'bloat' in a standalone between the 6 series and the 7
>> series (he's going to go seriously sour when he sees 8)
>> because he is trying to squeeze standalones onto Android devices with
>> limited storage.
>
> Some empirical data - for a blank stack saved for Android, the size of
> the APK in each is:
>
>     LiveCode 6.7 - 2.4Mb
>     LiveCode 7.1 - 6Mb
>     LiveCode 8.0 - 6.3Mb

What is the relationship between the Standalone file in thee 
Runtime/Android folder and the resulting APK?

The Standalone file for Android in v7.1.2 is 12.8 MB.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 15 15:39:27 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:39:27 -0700
Subject: [ANN] SoCal LiveCode Meeting: April 7, Pasadena
Message-ID: <56E864EF.3090200@fourthworld.com>

The next meeting of the SoCal LiveCode Group is at 7PM in Pasadena - 
details in the forums:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=26808

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Mar 15 18:18:34 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:18:34 -0700
Subject: Input Fields: Android vs iOS?
Message-ID: <D30DD84A.7CE6A%scott@tactilemedia.com>

I'm trying to port an iOS app to Android and am running up against some
sizing/positioning issues with native input fields.  When testing on a
Galaxy S4, it seems I need to double the height used in the iOS input
field settings, or the text displays clipped.  Am I missing something when
it comes to establishing the input's rect? Do I need to account for
margins, font specs, or something else?

It also seems the return key options on Android are more limited than
those available on iOS, which is not surprising.  But these issues beg the
question: is there a document somewhere that defines the differences
between input settings on Android vs iOS?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design






From t.heaford at icloud.com  Tue Mar 15 18:25:13 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 22:25:13 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand the inner workings of ResizeStack
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG-wJtRBe7zOUjsyY6=mdiEAH-wuPKwfigF9r3fGQQS16Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E60881EA-E96C-4CA0-884C-B96CBF3B7FB2@icloud.com>
	<ef675ff74083a3a1e038c2ee13b6818e@livecode.com>
	<7AA3DD84-AF7D-4258-B90D-58E1D167329B@icloud.com>
	<CAHg3tG8LH_EU6XP8X61+WXsMVMDK38DQq5nRCkaKkZL6KLWLbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BD8352B1-9C12-4C4A-B16D-E30FB0488EFF@icloud.com>
	<CAHg3tG-wJtRBe7zOUjsyY6=mdiEAH-wuPKwfigF9r3fGQQS16Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <900C3B77-8BE0-4151-9AE4-612C3BB8E30D@icloud.com>

Filed a bug with a test stack.

Bug?17133 <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17133>


Regards

Terry



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar 16 05:09:07 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:09:07 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
Message-ID: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>


I have been advised that ? (not equal) does not compile in Linux.

It does seem to work in OSX.

If ? is not a keyword then why does it work in OSX?



Thanks


Terry


From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar 16 05:36:11 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:36:11 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>

On 16/03/2016 09:09, Terence Heaford wrote:
>
> I have been advised that ? (not equal) does not compile in Linux.
>
> It does seem to work in OSX.
>
> If ? is not a keyword then why does it work in OSX?

Hi Terence,

Ali and I had a brief look into this, and we can confirm that:

* it works on OS X
* it doesn't work on Linux
* there's no immediately obvious reason for this

Could you please file a bug report?

                              Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 05:40:35 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:40:35 +0200
Subject: A Bad Hair Day . . .
Message-ID: <56E92A13.9050809@gmail.com>

Possibly . . . .

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26812

Love, Richmond.



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar 16 05:45:37 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:45:37 +0100
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=89=A0=20or=20not=20equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <125e0b15377e19e13f95f731c7c85f8b@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-16 10:36, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 16/03/2016 09:09, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> 
>> I have been advised that ? (not equal) does not compile in Linux.
>> 
>> It does seem to work in OSX.
>> 
>> If ? is not a keyword then why does it work in OSX?
> 
> Hi Terence,
> 
> Ali and I had a brief look into this, and we can confirm that:
> 
> * it works on OS X
> * it doesn't work on Linux
> * there's no immediately obvious reason for this

The reason is historical - prior to version 7 it wasn't possible to make 
it work.

The 'not equal' char and other maths related symbols are *only* present 
in MacRoman, not Windows-1252 or 8859-1 (the encodings used pre-7 on 
Windows and Linux) and since the engine only previously worked with the 
native encoding of the platform it was only ever supported on Mac.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar 16 05:46:06 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:46:06 +1100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <5F96A156-52A4-4A19-AE0C-03C6A297E035@appisle.net>


> On 16 Mar 2016, at 8:36 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> * it works on OS X
> * it doesn't work on Linux
> * there's no immediately obvious reason for this

Interesting, I presume this is a hangover from natively encoded scripts and HyperCard support. Now that scripts are unicode has anyone checked if ? works for line continuation cross platform also?

Cheers

Monte

From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Mar 16 05:55:15 2016
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:55:15 +0000
Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_=82_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <D30F7852.1EF81%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

Yeah I lost about half a day to that one a few weeks back trying to figure
out why my Android app was failing while the iOS one was fine.

Terry...

On 16/03/2016 8:09 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Terence Heaford"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of t.heaford at icloud.com>
wrote:

>
>I have been advised that ? (not equal) does not compile in Linux.
>
>It does seem to work in OSX.
>
>If ? is not a keyword then why does it work in OSX?
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Terry
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 05:56:52 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:56:52 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56E92DE4.5080703@gmail.com>



On 16.03.2016 11:36, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 16/03/2016 09:09, Terence Heaford wrote:
>>
>> I have been advised that ? (not equal) does not compile in Linux.
>>
>> It does seem to work in OSX.
>>
>> If ? is not a keyword then why does it work in OSX?
>
> Hi Terence,
>
> Ali and I had a brief look into this, and we can confirm that:
>
> * it works on OS X
> * it doesn't work on Linux
> * there's no immediately obvious reason for this
>
> Could you please file a bug report?
>
>                              Peter
>

Possibly the reason that there is a difference is that OS X ? Linux.

Umm, sorry, couldn't resist it.

Richmond.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 06:00:46 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 12:00:46 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>

So what? Big deal! Hardly worth the fuss!

I just tried this:

on mouseUp
    put fld "fff" into FFF
    if FFF is not 1 then
       put "NOPE"
    else
       put "YEP"
       end if
end mouseUp

So it really doesn't matter that '?' doesn't work in Linux.

Richmond.

On 16.03.2016 11:36, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 16/03/2016 09:09, Terence Heaford wrote:
>>
>> I have been advised that ? (not equal) does not compile in Linux.
>>
>> It does seem to work in OSX.
>>
>> If ? is not a keyword then why does it work in OSX?
>
> Hi Terence,
>
> Ali and I had a brief look into this, and we can confirm that:
>
> * it works on OS X
> * it doesn't work on Linux
> * there's no immediately obvious reason for this
>
> Could you please file a bug report?
>
>                              Peter
>




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar 16 08:03:07 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 12:03:07 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com> <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B6D20ADC-9C7E-404C-949F-1A65EEFD82BB@icloud.com>

I didn?t say it mattered only that the two systems did not work the same.

So, when you get a stack that has been created on a mac that includes ? will it matter then?

Terry

> On 16 Mar 2016, at 10:00, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> So it really doesn't matter that '?' doesn't work in Linux.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 08:09:08 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 14:09:08 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <B6D20ADC-9C7E-404C-949F-1A65EEFD82BB@icloud.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com> <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
	<B6D20ADC-9C7E-404C-949F-1A65EEFD82BB@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E94CE4.3000300@gmail.com>

OK, Terry: Good point!

The best thing to do, probably, is to remove the '?' capability 
completely, cross-platform.

Richmond.

On 16.03.2016 14:03, Terence Heaford wrote:
> I didn?t say it mattered only that the two systems did not work the same.
>
> So, when you get a stack that has been created on a mac that includes ? will it matter then?
>
> Terry
>
>> On 16 Mar 2016, at 10:00, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So it really doesn't matter that '?' doesn't work in Linux.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar 16 08:13:52 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 12:13:52 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E94CE4.3000300@gmail.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com> <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
	<B6D20ADC-9C7E-404C-949F-1A65EEFD82BB@icloud.com>
	<56E94CE4.3000300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9EE748AE-C131-40C8-A658-1DE2E759CC74@icloud.com>

I?ll let more experienced LiveCode developers & LiveCode themselves decide that one.

It doesn?t matter to me one way or another.

If it?s decided to omit it from Mac then it will need to be flagged in a compile.

All the best

Terry

> On 16 Mar 2016, at 12:09, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OK, Terry: Good point!
> 
> The best thing to do, probably, is to remove the '?' capability completely, cross-platform.
> 
> Richmond.



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar 16 08:17:21 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 12:17:21 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <9EE748AE-C131-40C8-A658-1DE2E759CC74@icloud.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com> <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
	<B6D20ADC-9C7E-404C-949F-1A65EEFD82BB@icloud.com>
	<56E94CE4.3000300@gmail.com>
	<9EE748AE-C131-40C8-A658-1DE2E759CC74@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <EFC512BD-C3F7-493B-A9F2-CD29906E4DF5@icloud.com>

Bug Filed:

Bug?17143 <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17143>


All the best

Terry



From mark.rauterkus at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 09:20:11 2016
From: mark.rauterkus at gmail.com (Mark Rauterkus)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:20:11 -0400
Subject: Would love to see this blog with 1,001 Uses stay FRESH
Message-ID: <CAGV_Z3BFzv=oJ63HW_-f8=8N2RAj_fP8vWrX3u6DkLDQESPsLg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

http://livecode1001.blogspot.com/

This is a great resource. I would LOVE to see it stay FRESH. A couple posts
a month would be fine. I wanted to turn people onto LiveCode -- and seeing
that with a most recent post from October 2015 is getting dated. Only two
were posted in 2015.

Cheering from the distance!!!!

Can new energy be gathered?


--
Ta.


Mark Rauterkus       Mark at Rauterkus.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 16 10:18:49 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 07:18:49 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
References: <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E96B49.8030805@fourthworld.com>

RM wrote:
 > So what? Big deal! Hardly worth the fuss!
 >
 > I just tried this:
 >
 > on mouseUp
 >     put fld "fff" into FFF
 >     if FFF is not 1 then
 >        put "NOPE"
 >     else
 >        put "YEP"
 >        end if
 > end mouseUp
 >
 > So it really doesn't matter that '?' doesn't work in Linux.

Or:

   if FFF <> 1 then

I don't believe "?" has ever been documented as a working token at all 
in LiveCode, supported only for imported HyperCard stacks back in the 
day.  Since HyperCard's been gone nearly 20 years we don't see many 
imports these days, and the universally-supported "<>" alternative takes 
only one extra character.

It'll be nice to see this supported elsewhere now that it's in Unicode, 
but doesn't seem much of a deal-breaker if it's a back-burner task in 
light of more pressing priorities (e.g., could I just play a video 
reliably on Windows and Linux please?).

If we were to look for not-equal-to operators that affect large numbers 
of people, it might be worth considering supporting "!=", since a 
majority of other languages support so for today's audience (and more 
importantly tomorrow's) that habit impacts orders of magnitude more 
developers than an old HyperCard-specific token.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From paul at researchware.com  Wed Mar 16 11:00:59 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:00:59 -0400
Subject: Small regex project for pay
Message-ID: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>

I have a small outsource coding project.

Given a variable tContent which contains a bunch of text and a variable
tString which contains a search string and a function that:

1) searches tContent using matchChunk(tContent,tRegex,tStart,tEnd)
repeatedly building a cr delimited list of start and end character
positions of all the occurrences of tString in tContent. So for tContent of:

'Now is the time for all good people to be good people.'

And tString of 'people', the function returns a delimited list:

30,35
48,53

2) The function supports optional Boolean parameters to support case
sensitivity/insensitivity

Note: while this can be done easily with the offset function, the next
parts can't

3) The function supports 4 search modes (a) the normal character search
described in (1) where tString can be a substring of any part of
tContent; (b) [the part you can't do with offset) support whole matches
(i.e. tString should only match is the char before tString is white
space (including cr) or punctuation and the char after tString is also
white space or punctuation; (c) support Begins With where tString is
preceded by white space/punctuation for begin with; and (d) Ends With
where tString terminates with white space/punctuation for ends with.

(a),(b),(c), and (d) are mutually exclusive options, but (2) case
sensitivity should work with any of the four modes

I have a framework for the function (currently using offset and not
supporting all the options). To change it to using matchChunk, I really
need the regex expressions for the options:

i.e something like:

switch pMode
  case "normal"
    if tCaseSenitive = true then
      put <someregex>&tString&<somemoreregex> into tRegexToUse
    else
      put <someregex>&tString&<somemoreregex> into tRegexToUse
    end if
    break
  case "whole"
    if tCaseSenitive = true then
      put <someregex>&tString&<somemoreregex> into tRegexToUse
    else
      put <someregex>&tString&<somemoreregex> into tRegexToUse
    end if
    break
  case "begins"
    ...
  case "ends"
    ...
end switch
Or some variation of this code (perhaps the case sensitivity option is a
single if before or after the switch

So, I am looking for the regex and a sample function in a stack that
demonstrates the regex performs the matches correctly for the 8 test
cases (4 modes with or without case sensitivity)

Email me your price for this job to paul at researchware.com



From dunbarx at aol.com  Wed Mar 16 11:01:27 2016
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:01:27 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1537ff21f80-72e7-289d@webprd-m50.mail.aol.com>


When I first started with LC, many of my handlers broke with "?", and after a forum inquiry, I was told that LC is not HC, so use "<>".


Well and good. but this was several versions ago, and I just tested again after all these years, and what do you know? "?" works in v.6.8.


I hate "<>".


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com>
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 16, 2016 5:10 am
Subject: ? or not equal

I have been advised that ? (not equal) does not compile in Linux.It does seem to work in OSX.If ? is not a keyword then why does it work in OSX?ThanksTerry_______________________________________________use-livecode mailing listuse-livecode at lists.runrev.comPlease visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From james at thehales.id.au  Wed Mar 16 11:22:25 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 08:22:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error in DG row behaviour crashing LC?
Message-ID: <1458141745708-4702265.post@n4.nabble.com>

(Sorry if this is a second post - not sure first went to the right place)

While modifying the Fillndata handler in the row behaviour I managed to
crash LiveCode (LC7.1.3rc1). 

After a few crashes where I selectively commented out my recently added
lines of script I traced it to my setting a property of an apparently
nonexistent object in my row template. 

Well the object did exist but I had miss-typed its name. 

Once I corrected the miss-type all was well again. 

Has anyone else come across this? 

I can understand the datagrid choking on my error, but I did not expect it
would crash LC. 

Didn't see anything in bugzilla that matched this.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Error-in-DG-row-behaviour-crashing-LC-tp4702265.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 16 13:02:06 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:06 -0700
Subject: Error in DG row behaviour crashing LC?
In-Reply-To: <1458141745708-4702265.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458141745708-4702265.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56E9918E.5040103@fourthworld.com>

jameshale wrote:
 > While modifying the Fillndata handler in the row behaviour I managed
 > to crash LiveCode (LC7.1.3rc1).
 >
 > After a few crashes where I selectively commented out my recently
 > added lines of script I traced it to my setting a property of an
 > apparently nonexistent object in my row template.
 >
 > Well the object did exist but I had miss-typed its name.
 >
 > Once I corrected the miss-type all was well again.
 >
 > Has anyone else come across this?
 >
 > I can understand the datagrid choking on my error, but I did not
 > expect it would crash LC.

Ideally nothing in a scripting language should cause a crash.

It would be helpful to check this under the current versions of v7 and 
v7 (7.1.3rc1 and 8.0dp15 respectively), and if the crash recurs in 
either please submit a bug report.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar 16 13:06:03 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 12:06:03 -0500
Subject: Small regex project for pay
In-Reply-To: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
References: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <15380643078.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Just for the record, you could probably meet all the requirements using 
LiveCode's trueword token (in LC 7) which solves the whitespace and 
punctuation issues. But I think regex would still be faster.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On March 16, 2016 10:02:23 AM Paul Dupuis <paul at researchware.com> wrote:

> I have a small outsource coding project.
>
> Given a variable tContent which contains a bunch of text and a variable
> tString which contains a search string and a function that:
>
> 1) searches tContent using matchChunk(tContent,tRegex,tStart,tEnd)
> repeatedly building a cr delimited list of start and end character
> positions of all the occurrences of tString in tContent. So for tContent of:
>
> 'Now is the time for all good people to be good people.'
>
> And tString of 'people', the function returns a delimited list:
>
> 30,35
> 48,53
>
> 2) The function supports optional Boolean parameters to support case
> sensitivity/insensitivity
>
> Note: while this can be done easily with the offset function, the next
> parts can't
>
> 3) The function supports 4 search modes (a) the normal character search
> described in (1) where tString can be a substring of any part of
> tContent; (b) [the part you can't do with offset) support whole matches
> (i.e. tString should only match is the char before tString is white
> space (including cr) or punctuation and the char after tString is also
> white space or punctuation; (c) support Begins With where tString is
> preceded by white space/punctuation for begin with; and (d) Ends With
> where tString terminates with white space/punctuation for ends with.
>
> (a),(b),(c), and (d) are mutually exclusive options, but (2) case
> sensitivity should work with any of the four modes
>
> I have a framework for the function (currently using offset and not
> supporting all the options). To change it to using matchChunk, I really
> need the regex expressions for the options:
>
> i.e something like:
>
> switch pMode
>   case "normal"
>     if tCaseSenitive = true then
>       put <someregex>&tString&<somemoreregex> into tRegexToUse
>     else
>       put <someregex>&tString&<somemoreregex> into tRegexToUse
>     end if
>     break
>   case "whole"
>     if tCaseSenitive = true then
>       put <someregex>&tString&<somemoreregex> into tRegexToUse
>     else
>       put <someregex>&tString&<somemoreregex> into tRegexToUse
>     end if
>     break
>   case "begins"
>     ...
>   case "ends"
>     ...
> end switch
> Or some variation of this code (perhaps the case sensitivity option is a
> single if before or after the switch
>
> So, I am looking for the regex and a sample function in a stack that
> demonstrates the regex performs the matches correctly for the 8 test
> cases (4 modes with or without case sensitivity)
>
> Email me your price for this job to paul at researchware.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From paul at researchware.com  Wed Mar 16 13:19:08 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 13:19:08 -0400
Subject: Small regex project for pay
In-Reply-To: <15380643078.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
	<15380643078.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56E9958C.3010009@researchware.com>

On 3/16/2016 1:06 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Just for the record, you could probably meet all the requirements
> using LiveCode's trueword token (in LC 7) which solves the whitespace
> and punctuation issues. But I think regex would still be faster.

Excellent point. I should have mentioned that I needed this for a
project being built under LC 6.7.x. I wish I was at LC7+ as the true
word and sentence chunks were specific enhancements I was looking for
since LC5, but I'm not quite ready to migrate. The code base of our app
uses a lot of the "old" Unicode way of doing things that must be updated
for 7 as well as an unknown number of instances where 'char' has been
used when 'byte' should be used that need to be located and
differentiated from actual instances where 'char' is correct. Also, by
the time I am ready, 8 will be released and we'll probably skip 7.x and
go straight to LC8 and finally be caught up in engine releases!



From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Wed Mar 16 13:59:50 2016
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 17:59:50 +0000
Subject: Release 6.7.10 / 7.1.3
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq92RuO1PaE_Tx=+45cfVavX+oV68eRFmY2KSGbS-y2rGA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List Members,


We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.10 Stable and 7.1.3
Stable. By "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been
introduced in 6.7.10 / 7.1.3, compared to the previous Stable release.


Both 6.7.10 / 7.1.3 are a promotion of 6.7.10 RC-1 / 7.1.3 RC-1, so no
change between the two versions, but the build number and the status.


*Getting the Release*

To get the release please download the installer directly at:
http://downloads.livecode.com


Warmest regards,


The LiveCode Team
--


From paul at researchware.com  Wed Mar 16 14:27:58 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 14:27:58 -0400
Subject: Small regex project for pay [CLOSED]
In-Reply-To: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
References: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <56E9A5AE.4000105@researchware.com>

Wow!

I was both surprised and delighted by the number and speed of responses
to this little project. Thank you to every one who inquired.

For anyone now reading this, the project has been awarded.




From revdev at pdslabs.net  Wed Mar 16 14:37:39 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:37:39 -0700
Subject: server difficulties coming from LC7, or new host?
Message-ID: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>

Hi folks,

Summary:
Since diesel was moved to the new hosting provider last weekend, my main 
customer's relatively stable client/server system no longer works. I'm 
trying to understand why. (The server code is in my customer's on-rev 
account, not on a LAN server.)

I have adjusted arrayEncode() in my server code to work with my 6.x 
client apps, but this has not been enough to make everything work again. 
The apps are able to interact with server code enough to get 
authenticated as valid users of the system, but any attempt by an app to 
download a data chunk of 200k or so causes timeout errors, even if I set 
client and server socketTimeoutIntervals to a ridiculously long 60 
seconds. (My server tests show that the server is done with the 'put' 
loooong before the client 'post' times out.) Communication from clients 
to server use 'post' or 'get', and the server code 'puts' all data back 
to clients.


Details:
Each of 3 desktop apps reaches out to the code in my customer's on-rev 
(now LC) hosting account for authentication and data before proceeding. 
Then in the course of doing their jobs, they will upload or download 
other info.

With the advent of the new hosting provider, we were also given LC 7.1.0 
as our only choice of server engine. This in itself is not a bad thing, 
but it immediately impacted my world. I had to change all instances of 
"arrayEncode()" in my server code to include the "6.7" param since all 
our desktop apps are currently built with LC 6.x. (Our transfer data is 
often structured in arrays underneath the encoding.) For a full 10 
seconds or so after that change, I thought our problems were solved, but 
it only allowed the next problem to manifest itself.


I'm probably leaving out some vital info, so feel free to ask. I'm 
getting nowhere right now, so I'll greatly appreciate any insight you 
can offer. I would love to discover that I'm overlooking something 
simple. (Hey, I can always hope!)

Thanks -

-- 
Phil Davis




From dsimpson at dotcomsolutionsinc.net  Wed Mar 16 14:46:09 2016
From: dsimpson at dotcomsolutionsinc.net (David Simpson)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:46:09 -0700
Subject: server difficulties coming from LC7, or new host?
In-Reply-To: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>

Phil,
Did you open a support ticket? I have found LiveCode to be very responsive.

It would potentially be helpful for them to see a simple recipe stack which duplicates the problem. Maybe there is some global config parameter which needs changed - and they could test and resolve it very quickly.

David Simpson
www.fmpromigrator.com



> On Mar 16, 2016, at 11:37 AM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Summary:
> Since diesel was moved to the new hosting provider last weekend, my main customer's relatively stable client/server system no longer works. I'm trying to understand why. (The server code is in my customer's on-rev account, not on a LAN server.)
> 
> I have adjusted arrayEncode() in my server code to work with my 6.x client apps, but this has not been enough to make everything work again. The apps are able to interact with server code enough to get authenticated as valid users of the system, but any attempt by an app to download a data chunk of 200k or so causes timeout errors, even if I set client and server socketTimeoutIntervals to a ridiculously long 60 seconds. (My server tests show that the server is done with the 'put' loooong before the client 'post' times out.) Communication from clients to server use 'post' or 'get', and the server code 'puts' all data back to clients.
> 
> 
> Details:
> Each of 3 desktop apps reaches out to the code in my customer's on-rev (now LC) hosting account for authentication and data before proceeding. Then in the course of doing their jobs, they will upload or download other info.
> 
> With the advent of the new hosting provider, we were also given LC 7.1.0 as our only choice of server engine. This in itself is not a bad thing, but it immediately impacted my world. I had to change all instances of "arrayEncode()" in my server code to include the "6.7" param since all our desktop apps are currently built with LC 6.x. (Our transfer data is often structured in arrays underneath the encoding.) For a full 10 seconds or so after that change, I thought our problems were solved, but it only allowed the next problem to manifest itself.
> 
> 
> I'm probably leaving out some vital info, so feel free to ask. I'm getting nowhere right now, so I'll greatly appreciate any insight you can offer. I would love to discover that I'm overlooking something simple. (Hey, I can always hope!)
> 
> Thanks -
> 
> -- 
> Phil Davis
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> livecode-dev mailing list
> livecode-dev at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/livecode-dev




From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar 16 14:53:01 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:53:01 +0100
Subject: server difficulties coming from LC7, or new
 =?UTF-8?Q?host=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <01147ac01053f0db8962658bdb90566a@livecode.com>

Hi Phil,

On 2016-03-16 19:37, Phil Davis wrote:
> Hi folks,
> I'm probably leaving out some vital info, so feel free to ask. I'm
> getting nowhere right now, so I'll greatly appreciate any insight you
> can offer. I would love to discover that I'm overlooking something
> simple. (Hey, I can always hope!)

It could be there are some other changes you might need to make to bring 
compatibility of your server side apps with 7, or, indeed, you might 
have found a bug or two with 7+ versions of server. If you could help 
locate the latter that would be great as it will mean a transition is 
smoother for everyone.

In the meantime, however, I've just chatted to David and he is currently 
working on setting up a way for everyone to choose what version of 
LiveCodeServer gets used to run your web sites - this will mean you will 
be able to continue to use the pre-7 engines until you are ready to move 
forward.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed Mar 16 14:57:02 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 14:57:02 -0400
Subject: server difficulties coming from LC7, or new host?
In-Reply-To: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <004e01d17fb5$a0abb230$e2031690$@net>

1) I had to regress to LC server 6.6.2 to solve some problems that David and
I have yet to ascertain. I think this is related to the session context bug
14452. Drop the LC server executable version of your choice into your
cig-bin folder(I used livecode-server-6.6.2). Then put this into your
.htaccess file:
AddHandler livecode-redirect .lc
Action livecode-redirect /cgi-bin/livecode-server-6.6.2

2) Be aware that the new Unicode enabled MySQL server has 2 things that got
me:
 a) I could not insert HTML into a text field and had to change the
collation of the field to utf8mb4_general_ci. After that the old code worked
just fine.
 b) When you insert into tables that have fields that do not have the "null
attribute" and also no "default value" MySQL will now throw an error if that
field is not part of the insert. Again after setting the "null attribute"
check box all was fine with the existing code.

Hope this gets you back in business.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Phil Davis
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 2:38 PM
To: How to use LiveCode; LiveCode Developer List
Subject: server difficulties coming from LC7, or new host?

Hi folks,

Summary:
Since diesel was moved to the new hosting provider last weekend, my main
customer's relatively stable client/server system no longer works. I'm
trying to understand why. (The server code is in my customer's on-rev
account, not on a LAN server.)

I have adjusted arrayEncode() in my server code to work with my 6.x client
apps, but this has not been enough to make everything work again. 
The apps are able to interact with server code enough to get authenticated
as valid users of the system, but any attempt by an app to download a data
chunk of 200k or so causes timeout errors, even if I set client and server
socketTimeoutIntervals to a ridiculously long 60 seconds. (My server tests
show that the server is done with the 'put' 
loooong before the client 'post' times out.) Communication from clients to
server use 'post' or 'get', and the server code 'puts' all data back to
clients.


Details:
Each of 3 desktop apps reaches out to the code in my customer's on-rev (now
LC) hosting account for authentication and data before proceeding. 
Then in the course of doing their jobs, they will upload or download other
info.

With the advent of the new hosting provider, we were also given LC 7.1.0 as
our only choice of server engine. This in itself is not a bad thing, but it
immediately impacted my world. I had to change all instances of
"arrayEncode()" in my server code to include the "6.7" param since all our
desktop apps are currently built with LC 6.x. (Our transfer data is often
structured in arrays underneath the encoding.) For a full 10 seconds or so
after that change, I thought our problems were solved, but it only allowed
the next problem to manifest itself.


I'm probably leaving out some vital info, so feel free to ask. I'm getting
nowhere right now, so I'll greatly appreciate any insight you can offer. I
would love to discover that I'm overlooking something simple. (Hey, I can
always hope!)

Thanks -

--
Phil Davis


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed Mar 16 15:03:16 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 15:03:16 -0400
Subject: server difficulties coming from LC7, or new host?
In-Reply-To: <A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
	<A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
Message-ID: <004f01d17fb6$7f820d60$7e862820$@net>

David Simpson said >I have found LiveCode to be very responsive.

I agree. The LC support was magnificent during the move and I received
responses to my requests in minutes. Be sure to use the emergency support
option when reporting problems that are blockers.

Between Heather's coordination of the move and David's quick response to
emergency support requests. I give the On-Rev team a +100 on this move.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net






From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar 16 15:05:15 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:05:15 +0000
Subject: Release 6.7.10 / 7.1.3
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq92RuO1PaE_Tx=+45cfVavX+oV68eRFmY2KSGbS-y2rGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq92RuO1PaE_Tx=+45cfVavX+oV68eRFmY2KSGbS-y2rGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C9A137A2-4E2F-4898-8E2E-FDF26006A2AD@icloud.com>

I might be wrong here but it seems to me that 6.7.10 has stopped remembering the size of the window(stack)
when I quit LiveCode.

When I open LiveCode/the stack again, the stack window has grown to nearly the full window size of my computer.

Mac OSX El Capitan.

Can someone confirm this please?


Thanks


Terry

> On 16 Mar 2016, at 17:59, panagiotis merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear List Members,
> 
> 
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.10 Stable and 7.1.3
> Stable. By "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been
> introduced in 6.7.10 / 7.1.3, compared to the previous Stable release.
> 
> 
> Both 6.7.10 / 7.1.3 are a promotion of 6.7.10 RC-1 / 7.1.3 RC-1, so no
> change between the two versions, but the build number and the status.
> 
> 
> *Getting the Release*
> 
> To get the release please download the installer directly at:
> http://downloads.livecode.com
> 
> 
> Warmest regards,
> 
> 
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 15:14:12 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 21:14:12 +0200
Subject: Release 6.7.10 / 7.1.3
In-Reply-To: <C9A137A2-4E2F-4898-8E2E-FDF26006A2AD@icloud.com>
References: <CA+JfEq92RuO1PaE_Tx=+45cfVavX+oV68eRFmY2KSGbS-y2rGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<C9A137A2-4E2F-4898-8E2E-FDF26006A2AD@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56E9B084.5030804@gmail.com>

It might just be time to forget 6.7.10 and move to the 7 series.

Richmond.

On 16.03.2016 21:05, Terence Heaford wrote:
> I might be wrong here but it seems to me that 6.7.10 has stopped remembering the size of the window(stack)
> when I quit LiveCode.
>
> When I open LiveCode/the stack again, the stack window has grown to nearly the full window size of my computer.
>
> Mac OSX El Capitan.
>
> Can someone confirm this please?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Terry
>
>> On 16 Mar 2016, at 17:59, panagiotis merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear List Members,
>>
>>
>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.10 Stable and 7.1.3
>> Stable. By "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been
>> introduced in 6.7.10 / 7.1.3, compared to the previous Stable release.
>>
>>
>> Both 6.7.10 / 7.1.3 are a promotion of 6.7.10 RC-1 / 7.1.3 RC-1, so no
>> change between the two versions, but the build number and the status.
>>
>>
>> *Getting the Release*
>>
>> To get the release please download the installer directly at:
>> http://downloads.livecode.com
>>
>>
>> Warmest regards,
>>
>>
>> The LiveCode Team
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar 16 15:23:49 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:23:49 +0000
Subject: Release 6.7.10 / 7.1.3
In-Reply-To: <56E9B084.5030804@gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq92RuO1PaE_Tx=+45cfVavX+oV68eRFmY2KSGbS-y2rGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<C9A137A2-4E2F-4898-8E2E-FDF26006A2AD@icloud.com>
	<56E9B084.5030804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CB0D6D3C-953D-4482-A699-2335BF25CD06@icloud.com>

LC 7.1.3 isn?t remembering stack size neither.

Will revert back to previous stable releases to check.


Terry



> On 16 Mar 2016, at 19:14, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It might just be time to forget 6.7.10 and move to the 7 series.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 16.03.2016 21:05, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> I might be wrong here but it seems to me that 6.7.10 has stopped remembering the size of the window(stack)
>> when I quit LiveCode.
>> 
>> When I open LiveCode/the stack again, the stack window has grown to nearly the full window size of my computer.
>> 
>> Mac OSX El Capitan.
>> 
>> Can someone confirm this please?
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>> Terry
>> 
>>> On 16 Mar 2016, at 17:59, panagiotis merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear List Members,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.10 Stable and 7.1.3
>>> Stable. By "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been
>>> introduced in 6.7.10 / 7.1.3, compared to the previous Stable release.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Both 6.7.10 / 7.1.3 are a promotion of 6.7.10 RC-1 / 7.1.3 RC-1, so no
>>> change between the two versions, but the build number and the status.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *Getting the Release*
>>> 
>>> To get the release please download the installer directly at:
>>> http://downloads.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Warmest regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The LiveCode Team
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From revdev at pdslabs.net  Wed Mar 16 15:33:04 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 12:33:04 -0700
Subject: server difficulties coming from LC7, or new host?
In-Reply-To: <A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
	<A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
Message-ID: <56E9B4F0.3090209@pdslabs.net>

David, Ralph, MarkW and others - THANKS for your feedback! This truly is 
an amazing community. I'll see if I can put together a recipe stack.

Thanks to all -
Phil



On 3/16/16 11:46 AM, David Simpson wrote:
> Phil,
> Did you open a support ticket? I have found LiveCode to be very responsive.
>
> It would potentially be helpful for them to see a simple recipe stack which duplicates the problem. Maybe there is some global config parameter which needs changed - and they could test and resolve it very quickly.
>
> David Simpson
> www.fmpromigrator.com
>
>
>
>> On Mar 16, 2016, at 11:37 AM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Summary:
>> Since diesel was moved to the new hosting provider last weekend, my main customer's relatively stable client/server system no longer works. I'm trying to understand why. (The server code is in my customer's on-rev account, not on a LAN server.)
>>
>> I have adjusted arrayEncode() in my server code to work with my 6.x client apps, but this has not been enough to make everything work again. The apps are able to interact with server code enough to get authenticated as valid users of the system, but any attempt by an app to download a data chunk of 200k or so causes timeout errors, even if I set client and server socketTimeoutIntervals to a ridiculously long 60 seconds. (My server tests show that the server is done with the 'put' loooong before the client 'post' times out.) Communication from clients to server use 'post' or 'get', and the server code 'puts' all data back to clients.
>>
>>
>> Details:
>> Each of 3 desktop apps reaches out to the code in my customer's on-rev (now LC) hosting account for authentication and data before proceeding. Then in the course of doing their jobs, they will upload or download other info.
>>
>> With the advent of the new hosting provider, we were also given LC 7.1.0 as our only choice of server engine. This in itself is not a bad thing, but it immediately impacted my world. I had to change all instances of "arrayEncode()" in my server code to include the "6.7" param since all our desktop apps are currently built with LC 6.x. (Our transfer data is often structured in arrays underneath the encoding.) For a full 10 seconds or so after that change, I thought our problems were solved, but it only allowed the next problem to manifest itself.
>>
>>
>> I'm probably leaving out some vital info, so feel free to ask. I'm getting nowhere right now, so I'll greatly appreciate any insight you can offer. I would love to discover that I'm overlooking something simple. (Hey, I can always hope!)
>>
>> Thanks -
>>
>> -- 
>> Phil Davis
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> livecode-dev mailing list
>> livecode-dev at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/livecode-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Wed Mar 16 15:34:36 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:34:36 +0000
Subject: Release 6.7.10 / 7.1.3
In-Reply-To: <CB0D6D3C-953D-4482-A699-2335BF25CD06@icloud.com>
References: <CA+JfEq92RuO1PaE_Tx=+45cfVavX+oV68eRFmY2KSGbS-y2rGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<C9A137A2-4E2F-4898-8E2E-FDF26006A2AD@icloud.com>
	<56E9B084.5030804@gmail.com>
	<CB0D6D3C-953D-4482-A699-2335BF25CD06@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1081658A-62BE-453C-BB7D-5EA539B5A929@icloud.com>

I must be losing it, I could have swore the previous versions saved the current size of the stack when closed
and reinstated to that size when reopened.

All versions open the stack window at the minimum size set in the stack properties.

Is that correct please?


Thanks

Terry


> On 16 Mar 2016, at 19:23, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> LC 7.1.3 isn?t remembering stack size neither.
> 
> Will revert back to previous stable releases to check.
> 
> 
> Terry



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar 16 15:41:14 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:41:14 +0000
Subject: Release 6.7.10 / 7.1.3
In-Reply-To: <1081658A-62BE-453C-BB7D-5EA539B5A929@icloud.com>
References: <CA+JfEq92RuO1PaE_Tx=+45cfVavX+oV68eRFmY2KSGbS-y2rGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<C9A137A2-4E2F-4898-8E2E-FDF26006A2AD@icloud.com>
	<56E9B084.5030804@gmail.com>
	<CB0D6D3C-953D-4482-A699-2335BF25CD06@icloud.com>
	<1081658A-62BE-453C-BB7D-5EA539B5A929@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <D4C03627-E3BD-4432-B130-F9C0B2E294A1@livecode.com>

The stack rect will be whatever it was the last time you saved the stack.

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Mar 2016, at 19:34, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> I must be losing it, I could have swore the previous versions saved the current size of the stack when closed
> and reinstated to that size when reopened.
> 
> All versions open the stack window at the minimum size set in the stack properties.
> 
> Is that correct please?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Terry
> 
> 
>> On 16 Mar 2016, at 19:23, Terence Heaford <t.heaford at icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> LC 7.1.3 isn?t remembering stack size neither.
>> 
>> Will revert back to previous stable releases to check.
>> 
>> 
>> Terry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed Mar 16 16:35:02 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 16:35:02 -0400
Subject: Apple Development Certificate
In-Reply-To: <56E9B4F0.3090209@pdslabs.net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>	<A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
	<56E9B4F0.3090209@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <005901d17fc3$517f9100$f47eb300$@net>

I just tried to open a previously installed app with a development
certificate and the app showed the splash page and then "poof" the app
exits. Tried to reload the app on the device and no-go. I logged on to the
development site and my development certificate is gone. The provisioning
profiles show as expired. Did it just expire without notice? When it does
expire does Apple deleted it or should remain but show as expired? I will
regenerate the development certificate but want to see if this is a normal
Apple thing.

Thanks

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net





From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 16:45:15 2016
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 22:45:15 +0200
Subject: Apple Development Certificate
In-Reply-To: <005901d17fc3$517f9100$f47eb300$@net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
	<A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
	<56E9B4F0.3090209@pdslabs.net>
	<005901d17fc3$517f9100$f47eb300$@net>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8UFCrk80=AXbYEYcSijP0e6eGymd6nmBD6tr4yf2uwRw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ralph,

Scott Rossi posted this a month ago:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If any of you are having difficulty building iOS standalones today, you're
not alone. Apple's own Worldwide Developer Relations Certificate expired
yesterday (Feb 14) which will likely cause your developer certificates to
display with an "This certificate has an invalid user" error message, and
will prevent LiveCode from generating standalones with a "A valid signing
identity could not be found" error.  I was beyond irked trying to figure
why I could build standalones last week and not this week.

What solved the problem for me was to delete the Apple Worldwide Developer
Relations Certification Authority certificate from Keychain, and then
downloading and installing the certificate mentioned here:
https <https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>://
<https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>
developer.apple.com
<https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>
/support/certificates/expiration/
<https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>

Hope this saves a few people some aggravation.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps,

Panos

--
On 16 Mar 2016 20:35, "Ralph DiMola" <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:

> I just tried to open a previously installed app with a development
> certificate and the app showed the splash page and then "poof" the app
> exits. Tried to reload the app on the device and no-go. I logged on to the
> development site and my development certificate is gone. The provisioning
> profiles show as expired. Did it just expire without notice? When it does
> expire does Apple deleted it or should remain but show as expired? I will
> regenerate the development certificate but want to see if this is a normal
> Apple thing.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed Mar 16 16:56:32 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 16:56:32 -0400
Subject: Apple Development Certificate
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8UFCrk80=AXbYEYcSijP0e6eGymd6nmBD6tr4yf2uwRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>	<A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>	<56E9B4F0.3090209@pdslabs.net>	<005901d17fc3$517f9100$f47eb300$@net>
	<CA+JfEq8UFCrk80=AXbYEYcSijP0e6eGymd6nmBD6tr4yf2uwRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005a01d17fc6$52579a20$f706ce60$@net>

Thanks but I already jumped though that hoop. This is not the "Worldwide
Developer Relations Certificate" building issue but my development
certificate. I now see in Keychain that it expired yesterday. This caused
apps already installed to stop working.  My question is why it was deleted
without even an email. I guess it's my responsibility but I would have
expected an email or at least not to be deleted before I could renew. Now
the dev versions of all my apps stopped working. What a pain to
re-link/install the dev versions of all my apps.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of panagiotis merakos
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 4:45 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Apple Development Certificate

Hi Ralph,

Scott Rossi posted this a month ago:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------

If any of you are having difficulty building iOS standalones today, you're
not alone. Apple's own Worldwide Developer Relations Certificate expired
yesterday (Feb 14) which will likely cause your developer certificates to
display with an "This certificate has an invalid user" error message, and
will prevent LiveCode from generating standalones with a "A valid signing
identity could not be found" error.  I was beyond irked trying to figure why
I could build standalones last week and not this week.

What solved the problem for me was to delete the Apple Worldwide Developer
Relations Certification Authority certificate from Keychain, and then
downloading and installing the certificate mentioned here:
https <https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>://
<https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>
developer.apple.com
<https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>
/support/certificates/expiration/
<https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>

Hope this saves a few people some aggravation.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------

Hope this helps,

Panos

--
On 16 Mar 2016 20:35, "Ralph DiMola" <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:

> I just tried to open a previously installed app with a development 
> certificate and the app showed the splash page and then "poof" the app 
> exits. Tried to reload the app on the device and no-go. I logged on to 
> the development site and my development certificate is gone. The 
> provisioning profiles show as expired. Did it just expire without 
> notice? When it does expire does Apple deleted it or should remain but 
> show as expired? I will regenerate the development certificate but 
> want to see if this is a normal Apple thing.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From colinholgate at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 17:50:00 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 17:50:00 -0400
Subject: Apple Development Certificate
In-Reply-To: <005a01d17fc6$52579a20$f706ce60$@net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
	<A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
	<56E9B4F0.3090209@pdslabs.net>
	<005901d17fc3$517f9100$f47eb300$@net>
	<CA+JfEq8UFCrk80=AXbYEYcSijP0e6eGymd6nmBD6tr4yf2uwRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<005a01d17fc6$52579a20$f706ce60$@net>
Message-ID: <4522E6E8-11F1-4301-A907-5F8F002A1A3C@gmail.com>

Not related to your question really, but for a long time now I?ve used Ad Hoc Distribution builds, instead of development builds. Then when I go to submit an app I only have to switch the provisioning profile, instead of both the certificate and profile. I?ve had cases in the past where at the last second I find out there isn?t a current distribution certificate!


> On Mar 16, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Ralph DiMola <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:
> 
> Thanks but I already jumped though that hoop. This is not the "Worldwide
> Developer Relations Certificate" building issue but my development
> certificate. I now see in Keychain that it expired yesterday. This caused
> apps already installed to stop working.  My question is why it was deleted
> without even an email. I guess it's my responsibility but I would have
> expected an email or at least not to be deleted before I could renew. Now
> the dev versions of all my apps stopped working. What a pain to
> re-link/install the dev versions of all my apps.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of panagiotis merakos
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 4:45 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Subject: Re: Apple Development Certificate
> 
> Hi Ralph,
> 
> Scott Rossi posted this a month ago:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------
> 
> If any of you are having difficulty building iOS standalones today, you're
> not alone. Apple's own Worldwide Developer Relations Certificate expired
> yesterday (Feb 14) which will likely cause your developer certificates to
> display with an "This certificate has an invalid user" error message, and
> will prevent LiveCode from generating standalones with a "A valid signing
> identity could not be found" error.  I was beyond irked trying to figure why
> I could build standalones last week and not this week.
> 
> What solved the problem for me was to delete the Apple Worldwide Developer
> Relations Certification Authority certificate from Keychain, and then
> downloading and installing the certificate mentioned here:
> https <https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>://
> <https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>
> developer.apple.com
> <https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>
> /support/certificates/expiration/
> <https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/expiration/>
> 
> Hope this saves a few people some aggravation.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Panos
> 
> --
> On 16 Mar 2016 20:35, "Ralph DiMola" <rdimola at evergreeninfo.net> wrote:
> 
>> I just tried to open a previously installed app with a development 
>> certificate and the app showed the splash page and then "poof" the app 
>> exits. Tried to reload the app on the device and no-go. I logged on to 
>> the development site and my development certificate is gone. The 
>> provisioning profiles show as expired. Did it just expire without 
>> notice? When it does expire does Apple deleted it or should remain but 
>> show as expired? I will regenerate the development certificate but 
>> want to see if this is a normal Apple thing.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 16 19:43:20 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 16:43:20 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E96B49.8030805@fourthworld.com>
References: <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com> <56E96B49.8030805@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56E9EF98.6020208@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/16/2016 07:18 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> If we were to look for not-equal-to operators that affect large numbers
> of people, it might be worth considering supporting "!=", since a
> majority of other languages support so for today's audience (and more
> importantly tomorrow's) that habit impacts orders of magnitude more
> developers than an old HyperCard-specific token.

Done.
<https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3754>

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From revdev at pdslabs.net  Wed Mar 16 23:50:24 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:50:24 -0700
Subject: server difficulties coming from LC7, or new host?
In-Reply-To: <A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
References: <56E9A7F3.6060100@pdslabs.net>
	<A8AF1DB5-9F8A-46CB-87EE-1743F368CE2F@dotcomsolutionsinc.net>
Message-ID: <56EA2980.3020400@pdslabs.net>

Submitted as bug #17153


On 3/16/16 11:46 AM, David Simpson wrote:
> Phil,
> Did you open a support ticket? I have found LiveCode to be very responsive.
>
> It would potentially be helpful for them to see a simple recipe stack which duplicates the problem. Maybe there is some global config parameter which needs changed - and they could test and resolve it very quickly.
>
> David Simpson
> www.fmpromigrator.com
>
>
>
>> On Mar 16, 2016, at 11:37 AM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Summary:
>> Since diesel was moved to the new hosting provider last weekend, my main customer's relatively stable client/server system no longer works. I'm trying to understand why. (The server code is in my customer's on-rev account, not on a LAN server.)
>>
>> I have adjusted arrayEncode() in my server code to work with my 6.x client apps, but this has not been enough to make everything work again. The apps are able to interact with server code enough to get authenticated as valid users of the system, but any attempt by an app to download a data chunk of 200k or so causes timeout errors, even if I set client and server socketTimeoutIntervals to a ridiculously long 60 seconds. (My server tests show that the server is done with the 'put' loooong before the client 'post' times out.) Communication from clients to server use 'post' or 'get', and the server code 'puts' all data back to clients.
>>
>>
>> Details:
>> Each of 3 desktop apps reaches out to the code in my customer's on-rev (now LC) hosting account for authentication and data before proceeding. Then in the course of doing their jobs, they will upload or download other info.
>>
>> With the advent of the new hosting provider, we were also given LC 7.1.0 as our only choice of server engine. This in itself is not a bad thing, but it immediately impacted my world. I had to change all instances of "arrayEncode()" in my server code to include the "6.7" param since all our desktop apps are currently built with LC 6.x. (Our transfer data is often structured in arrays underneath the encoding.) For a full 10 seconds or so after that change, I thought our problems were solved, but it only allowed the next problem to manifest itself.
>>
>>
>> I'm probably leaving out some vital info, so feel free to ask. I'm getting nowhere right now, so I'll greatly appreciate any insight you can offer. I would love to discover that I'm overlooking something simple. (Hey, I can always hope!)
>>
>> Thanks -
>>
>> -- 
>> Phil Davis
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> livecode-dev mailing list
>> livecode-dev at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/livecode-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar 17 00:50:11 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:50:11 +1100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56E9EF98.6020208@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com> <56E96B49.8030805@fourthworld.com>
	<56E9EF98.6020208@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <654FE7D6-A6B5-47A1-AEFD-1933E20B2381@appisle.net>


> On 17 Mar 2016, at 10:43 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> On 03/16/2016 07:18 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> If we were to look for not-equal-to operators that affect large numbers
>> of people, it might be worth considering supporting "!=", since a
>> majority of other languages support so for today's audience (and more
>> importantly tomorrow's) that habit impacts orders of magnitude more
>> developers than an old HyperCard-specific token.
> 
> Done.
> <https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3754>

Cool, will be interesting to see how this goes. I know jumping between languages I?ve had to correct myself on that one. The other one is break which of course compiles fine but only works in case control structures when I was trying to use it in repeat one time instead of exit repeat. I wonder why break wasn?t exit switch? I guess if we allowed break as a synonym for exit repeat then we might want to allow continue as a synonym for next repeat? In the end we will start arguments about whether there aught to be just one syntax to do things rather than lots of synonyms and let the script editor translate the synonyms and abbreviations on the fly (I?m pretty sure that was what we ended up with last time we discussed it).

Cheers

Monte


From hh at livecode.org  Thu Mar 17 03:43:40 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 00:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <654FE7D6-A6B5-47A1-AEFD-1933E20B2381@appisle.net>
References: <E62546E4-A4E4-4AA8-85A9-6FE447DAFDBA@icloud.com>
	<56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com> <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
	<56E96B49.8030805@fourthworld.com>
	<56E9EF98.6020208@ahsoftware.net>
	<654FE7D6-A6B5-47A1-AEFD-1933E20B2381@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <1458200620710-4702289.post@n4.nabble.com>

> R.G. wrote
> If we were to look for not-equal-to operators that affect large numbers
> of people, it might be worth considering supporting "!=", since a 
> majority of other languages support so for today's audience (and more 
> importantly tomorrow's) that habit impacts orders of magnitude more 
> developers than an old HyperCard-specific token.

This is certainly NOT a problem that is specially linked to HyperCard.
We have it always when importing any 8-bit data from earlier Macs.

This is more generally a problem of *Encoding*. The specials of the
extended Macintosh codeTable (here: char 173) and the differences
to Latin-1 (or HTML entities, where &#173; is &shy; the optional
hyphen) etc.

"!=" is a good solution (as it is one out of the ASCCI 7-bit range).




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/or-not-equal-tp4702248p4702289.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From pmbrig at gmail.com  Thu Mar 17 07:41:38 2016
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 07:41:38 -0400
Subject: Small regex project for pay [CLOSED]
In-Reply-To: <56E9A5AE.4000105@researchware.com>
References: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
	<56E9A5AE.4000105@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CF8A9444-644E-4909-A874-CBF649B09C21@gmail.com>

Too late to the party on this one, but I have native LC functions that do all of what you wanted.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

On Mar 16, 2016, at 2:27 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote:

> Wow!
> 
> I was both surprised and delighted by the number and speed of responses
> to this little project. Thank you to every one who inquired.
> 
> For anyone now reading this, the project has been awarded.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Mar 17 08:08:49 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:08:49 -0400
Subject: Small regex project for pay [CLOSED]
In-Reply-To: <CF8A9444-644E-4909-A874-CBF649B09C21@gmail.com>
References: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
	<56E9A5AE.4000105@researchware.com>
	<CF8A9444-644E-4909-A874-CBF649B09C21@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EA9E51.8000003@researchware.com>

On 3/17/2016 7:41 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote:
> Too late to the party on this one, but I have native LC functions that do all of what you wanted.
>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmbrig at gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
>
>

Well this experiment and micro-outsourcing worked out well enough for us
that, funds permitting, we may try to do more of these sort of "I need a
handler to do x" micro-projects in the future.



From david at viral.academy  Thu Mar 17 08:20:56 2016
From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:20:56 +0000
Subject: Small regex project for pay [CLOSED]
In-Reply-To: <CF8A9444-644E-4909-A874-CBF649B09C21@gmail.com>
References: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
	<56E9A5AE.4000105@researchware.com>
	<CF8A9444-644E-4909-A874-CBF649B09C21@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASioNz2LNHV=_3FRaPw5XtboP0QJW-0FBx7igZaOUPyo-MCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Peter, any chance of sharing it?

On Thursday, 17 March 2016, Peter M. Brigham <pmbrig at gmail.com> wrote:

> Too late to the party on this one, but I have native LC functions that do
> all of what you wanted.
>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmbrig at gmail.com <javascript:;>
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
>
> On Mar 16, 2016, at 2:27 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote:
>
> > Wow!
> >
> > I was both surprised and delighted by the number and speed of responses
> > to this little project. Thank you to every one who inquired.
> >
> > For anyone now reading this, the project has been awarded.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <javascript:;>
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <javascript:;>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 17 10:02:47 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 07:02:47 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <1458200620710-4702289.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458200620710-4702289.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56EAB907.8080604@fourthworld.com>

-hh wrote:

 >> R.G. wrote
 >> If we were to look for not-equal-to operators that affect large
 >> numbers of people, it might be worth considering supporting "!=",
 >> since a majority of other languages support so for today's audience
 >> (and more importantly tomorrow's) that habit impacts orders of
 >> magnitude more developers than an old HyperCard-specific token.
 >
 > This is certainly NOT a problem that is specially linked to HyperCard.
 > We have it always when importing any 8-bit data from earlier Macs.
 >
 > This is more generally a problem of *Encoding*. The specials of the
 > extended Macintosh codeTable (here: char 173) and the differences
 > to Latin-1 (or HTML entities, where ? is ? the optional
 > hyphen) etc.

For data you're absolutely right, which is why the team spent so much 
time implementing Unicode.

But in this thread Terence's concern was more specific.  It wasn't about 
merely displaying "?" as data.  The issue here is about the semantics of 
that character when it appears in scripts.

When used as data, such as in a quoted string, "?" was no better or 
worse than anything else not found in Latin ISO 8859-1, formerly the 
engine's native character set.

With v7 and later the problem with displaying "?" as data has been 
solved.  The only remaining issue is whether is should be supported 
across platforms as an evaluation operator.

Personally, I don't care one way or another; I was just noting that we 
have a long list of things to do and this one seems pretty low in the 
priority queue given how few people it affects.


 > "!=" is a good solution (as it is one out of the ASCCI 7-bit range).

Agreed.  I was very impressed Mark Wieder implemented that as quickly as 
he did - thanks Mark!

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From pmbrig at gmail.com  Thu Mar 17 10:23:14 2016
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:23:14 -0400
Subject: Small regex project for pay [CLOSED]
In-Reply-To: <CAGASioNz2LNHV=_3FRaPw5XtboP0QJW-0FBx7igZaOUPyo-MCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56E9752B.3010004@researchware.com>
	<56E9A5AE.4000105@researchware.com>
	<CF8A9444-644E-4909-A874-CBF649B09C21@gmail.com>
	<CAGASioNz2LNHV=_3FRaPw5XtboP0QJW-0FBx7igZaOUPyo-MCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ECE48DB1-1C47-4A06-A394-8A11CA73CD2D@gmail.com>

On Mar 17, 2016, at 8:20 AM, David Bovill wrote:

> Hi Peter, any chance of sharing it?

Sure. Below is the offsets function that returns all the offsets of a string in a container. Then all you have to do is something like this:

function getStringChunks pSearchStr,pText,beginsWholeWord,endsWholeWord
   if beginsWholeWord = empty then put false into beginsWholeWord
   if endsWholeWord = empty then put false into endsWholeWord
   -- default to simple offsets, not whole word offsets
   put offsets(pSearchStr,pText) into offSts
   replace comma with cr in offSts
   put len(pSearchStr) into strLen
   put cr & space & tab & " " into wSpace
   -- include non-breaking space
   repeat for each line i in offSts
      put char i-1 of pText into charBefore
      put char i+strLen of pText into charAfter
      if beginsWholeWord and not (charBefore is in wSpace) then next repeat
      if endsWholeWord and not (charAfter is in wSpace) then next repeat
      put i & comma & (i+strLen-1) & cr after outList
   end repeat
   return line 1 to -1 of outList
end getStringChunks

Pass beginsWholeWord = true and endsWholeWord = true for wholeMatches.
Might not be really fast for pText of 100K+ characters, but should be quite efficient on smaller texts. Often LC's chunking functions are faster than regex anyway.

---------

function offsets str, pContainer
   -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer
   -- returns 0 if not found
   -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5"
   --     ie, overlapping offsets are not counted
   -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful)
   --     use "item -1 of offsets(...)"
   
   if str is not in pContainer then return 0
   put 0 into startPoint
   repeat
      put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset
      if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat
      add thisOffset to startPoint
      put startPoint & comma after offsetList
      add length(str)-1 to startPoint
   end repeat
   return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma
end offsets

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar 17 12:27:13 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:27:13 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EAB907.8080604@fourthworld.com>
References: <1458200620710-4702289.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EAB907.8080604@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/17/2016 07:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>  > "!=" is a good solution (as it is one out of the ASCCI 7-bit range).
>
> Agreed.  I was very impressed Mark Wieder implemented that as quickly as
> he did - thanks Mark!
>

<sigh>
@mwieder: Thanks for your contribution. Unfortunately, though, we don't 
feel it is an appropriate addition to the LiveCode language.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar 17 12:34:09 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 16:34:09 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
References: <1458200620710-4702289.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EAB907.8080604@fourthworld.com> <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56EADC81.3090707@livecode.com>

On 17/03/2016 16:27, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/17/2016 07:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>>  > "!=" is a good solution (as it is one out of the ASCCI 7-bit range).
>>
>> Agreed.  I was very impressed Mark Wieder implemented that as quickly as
>> he did - thanks Mark!
>>
>
> <sigh>
> @mwieder: Thanks for your contribution. Unfortunately, though, we don't
> feel it is an appropriate addition to the LiveCode language.

In the interests of completeness, maybe it would be helpful to quote the 
comment [1] fully:

> @mwieder: Thanks for your contribution. Unfortunately, though, we don't feel it is an appropriate addition to the LiveCode language.
>
> The addition of synonyms to the language has been discussed at length in the past, and the general consensus has been that it is better that the core language have one way of naming each thing rather than a multitude.
>
> We don't see that adding "!=" and "!" to the language solves any real problem. Indeed, we already have "<>" as a synonym for "is not" which is a widely established symbol for the given operator. At the end of the day, each programming language chooses its own set of symbols for the common operators - for example, C also has "==" for equality, LiveCode has "is" or "=".
>
> In the future, Open Language will allow people to add their own sets of operators which appeal to their personal taste but in a fashion which is far more modular. We feel that that would be the correct time to experiment with such language additions rather than overloading the core with synonyms.

                                       Peter

[1] https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3754#issuecomment-197929928

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From pmbrig at gmail.com  Thu Mar 17 12:37:11 2016
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:37:11 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
References: <1458200620710-4702289.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EAB907.8080604@fourthworld.com>
	<56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <410BE292-FFA2-4C62-86DF-C108B9881436@gmail.com>

On Mar 17, 2016, at 12:27 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> On 03/17/2016 07:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> > "!=" is a good solution (as it is one out of the ASCCI 7-bit range).
>> 
>> Agreed.  I was very impressed Mark Wieder implemented that as quickly as
>> he did - thanks Mark!
>> 
> 
> <sigh>
> @mwieder: Thanks for your contribution. Unfortunately, though, we don't feel it is an appropriate addition to the LiveCode language.

Well, if you have to type two characters anyway, have them be on neighboring keys and both with the shiftkey, rather than on opposite sides of the keyboard, one with shift key and one not.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig




From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Mar 17 12:48:13 2016
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:48:13 +0100
Subject: "the target" also valid for disabled buttons?
Message-ID: <D9B4E5E0-3C25-4270-810D-FA33009CE447@major-k.de>

Hi all,

sorry for the strange subject, but I have a strange problem
and wonder if this is a bug or feature.

I have 3 buttons in a group with this script:
on mouseUp
   switch the short name of the target
      case "Next"
         send "handle_mouseup next" to grp "navibuttons1" in 0
         #go next
         break
      case "Back"
         send "handle_mouseup prev" to grp "navibuttons1" in 0
         break
      case ?another button?
         ## not handled yet...
      break
   end switch
end mouseUp

Now in some situations one of these buttons is diabled, but the 
script executes as if the button is still ENabledm which causes 
inconvenience, read ERRORS! Know what I mean?

So is this a bug and the script should NOT work for diesabled buttons or should it?
Thanks for any insight!

LC 7.1.3 stable on OS X 10.11.3


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 17 12:51:04 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:51:04 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56EAE078.2010302@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

On 03/17/2016 07:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>> "!=" is a good solution (as it is one out of the ASCCI 7-bit range).
 >>
 >> Agreed.  I was very impressed Mark Wieder implemented that as quickly
 >> as he did - thanks Mark!
 >
 >
 > <sigh>
 > @mwieder: Thanks for your contribution. Unfortunately, though, we
 > don't feel it is an appropriate addition to the LiveCode language.

<double-plus sigh>
In a language that has "playLoudness" to mean "soundVolume", a 
"destroyStack" property that doesn't destroy the stack, and "this me", 
adopting the world's most common way to express non-equivalence would 
seem a shoe-in.

Esp. given that "<>" is supported but almost unique to our language, and 
"?" has been suggested by a member of the core dev team to be elevated 
from an undocumented convenience for HyperCard ports to a native token:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/224664.html>

How does one even type "?" in any keyboard other than a Mac?

If we were talking about "==" I could understand.  The difference 
between "=" and "==" in languages that support both accounts for 
millions of lost hours for developers and end-users due to accidental 
bugs every year.

But "!="?  I just don't see the harm.  Sometimes accommodating the rest 
of the world isn't a bad thing.

At a time when I hope we're all keenly sensitive to the need for 
increased adoption, this seems more of a focus on "We're different" than 
"We help you get the job done more efficiently".

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 17 13:12:18 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:12:18 -0700
Subject: Small regex project for pay [CLOSED]
In-Reply-To: <ECE48DB1-1C47-4A06-A394-8A11CA73CD2D@gmail.com>
References: <ECE48DB1-1C47-4A06-A394-8A11CA73CD2D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EAE572.8040102@fourthworld.com>

That's a handy handler, Peter, but I think it would need to be enhanced 
to accommodate Paul's request here, as his algo needs to account for not 
only white space but also punctuation.  Trickier, it needs to 
accommodate punctuation across multiple languages, so the range of 
characters to be checked could be potentially quite lengthy and perhaps 
difficult to anticipate for all possible use cases.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with any language-parsing tasks in 
anything prior to v7.0, given the power of trueWord.  As Mark Waddingham 
has noted here, most of the increase in the engine size between v6 and 
v7 is Unicode libraries and tables whose purpose is to handle exactly 
this sort of problem.

V6 and v7 have been identified as approaching EOL ASAP, when v8.0 goes 
final.  All serious apps I work on here are being developed in v8, 
shipping for now with either v6.x or 7.x as needed depending on the 
specifics of the app at hand.  But the moment v8.0 goes final I'll be 
able to have confidence that it'll do what I need because I've already 
run my work through this new engine and have already submitted bug 
reports that have already been addressed.

Waiting to run my work in v8.0 until after v8.0 Stable is released would 
only increase my changes that some uncommon thing my app depends on met 
with a regression I didn't identify when I had the chance, pushing back 
my own time-to-market by having to wait for a v8.1.

With more than 2500+ bug fixes and enhancements between v6.0 and v8.0, 
there's plenty there to keep me motivated about the upgrade.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


Peter M. Brigham wrote:

> On Mar 17, 2016, at 8:20 AM, David Bovill wrote:
>
>> Hi Peter, any chance of sharing it?
>
> Sure. Below is the offsets function that returns all the offsets of a string in a container. Then all you have to do is something like this:
>
> function getStringChunks pSearchStr,pText,beginsWholeWord,endsWholeWord
>    if beginsWholeWord = empty then put false into beginsWholeWord
>    if endsWholeWord = empty then put false into endsWholeWord
>    -- default to simple offsets, not whole word offsets
>    put offsets(pSearchStr,pText) into offSts
>    replace comma with cr in offSts
>    put len(pSearchStr) into strLen
>    put cr & space & tab & " " into wSpace
>    -- include non-breaking space
>    repeat for each line i in offSts
>       put char i-1 of pText into charBefore
>       put char i+strLen of pText into charAfter
>       if beginsWholeWord and not (charBefore is in wSpace) then next repeat
>       if endsWholeWord and not (charAfter is in wSpace) then next repeat
>       put i & comma & (i+strLen-1) & cr after outList
>    end repeat
>    return line 1 to -1 of outList
> end getStringChunks
>
> Pass beginsWholeWord = true and endsWholeWord = true for wholeMatches.
> Might not be really fast for pText of 100K+ characters, but should be quite efficient on smaller texts. Often LC's chunking functions are faster than regex anyway.
>
> ---------
>
> function offsets str, pContainer
>    -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer
>    -- returns 0 if not found
>    -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5"
>    --     ie, overlapping offsets are not counted
>    -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful)
>    --     use "item -1 of offsets(...)"
>
>    if str is not in pContainer then return 0
>    put 0 into startPoint
>    repeat
>       put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset
>       if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat
>       add thisOffset to startPoint
>       put startPoint & comma after offsetList
>       add length(str)-1 to startPoint
>    end repeat
>    return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma
> end offsets
>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmbrig at gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig




From paul at researchware.com  Thu Mar 17 13:02:30 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:02:30 -0400
Subject: "the target" also valid for disabled buttons?
In-Reply-To: <D9B4E5E0-3C25-4270-810D-FA33009CE447@major-k.de>
References: <D9B4E5E0-3C25-4270-810D-FA33009CE447@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <56EAE326.6000306@researchware.com>

Messages that are explicitly sent (as in using SEND or DISPATCH) to a
disable control will be executed. This is not a bug.

All you need to do is replace: send "handle_mouseup next" to grp
"navibuttons1" in 0
with: if the enabled of grp "navibuttons1" is true then send
"handle_mouseup next" to grp "navibuttons1" in 0

and likewise for the "Back" case.


On 3/17/2016 12:48 PM, Klaus major-k wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> sorry for the strange subject, but I have a strange problem
> and wonder if this is a bug or feature.
>
> I have 3 buttons in a group with this script:
> on mouseUp
>    switch the short name of the target
>       case "Next"
>          send "handle_mouseup next" to grp "navibuttons1" in 0
>          #go next
>          break
>       case "Back"
>          send "handle_mouseup prev" to grp "navibuttons1" in 0
>          break
>       case ?another button?
>          ## not handled yet...
>       break
>    end switch
> end mouseUp
>
> Now in some situations one of these buttons is diabled, but the 
> script executes as if the button is still ENabledm which causes 
> inconvenience, read ERRORS! Know what I mean?
>
> So is this a bug and the script should NOT work for diesabled buttons or should it?
> Thanks for any insight!
>
> LC 7.1.3 stable on OS X 10.11.3
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Mar 17 13:26:49 2016
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:26:49 +0100
Subject: "the target" also valid for disabled buttons?
In-Reply-To: <56EAE326.6000306@researchware.com>
References: <D9B4E5E0-3C25-4270-810D-FA33009CE447@major-k.de>
	<56EAE326.6000306@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <DCA6A3F7-296D-4536-A9F8-717E7CD17C07@major-k.de>

Hi Paul,

> Am 17.03.2016 um 18:02 schrieb Paul Dupuis <paul at researchware.com>:
> 
> Messages that are explicitly sent (as in using SEND or DISPATCH) to a
> disable control will be executed. This is not a bug.
> 
> All you need to do is replace: send "handle_mouseup next" to grp
> "navibuttons1" in 0
> with: if the enabled of grp "navibuttons1" is true then send
> "handle_mouseup next" to grp "navibuttons1" in 0
> 
> and likewise for the "Back" case.

yes, sure, but the BUTTONS ?Next? and/or ?Back? are eventually disabled and NOT group ?navibuttons1?!

Sorry, if I was not clear.

I do not think that the group script should be executed if I click on e.g. the disabled button ?Next?!
Or should it? that is the big question :-) 

> On 3/17/2016 12:48 PM, Klaus major-k wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> sorry for the strange subject, but I have a strange problem
>> and wonder if this is a bug or feature.
>> 
>> I have 3 buttons in a group with this script:
>> on mouseUp
>>   switch the short name of the target
>>      case "Next"
>>         send "handle_mouseup next" to grp "navibuttons1" in 0
>>         #go next
>>         break
>>      case "Back"
>>         send "handle_mouseup prev" to grp "navibuttons1" in 0
>>         break
>>      case ?another button?
>>         ## not handled yet...
>>      break
>>   end switch
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> Now in some situations one of these buttons is diabled, but the 
>> script executes as if the button is still ENabledm which causes 
>> inconvenience, read ERRORS! Know what I mean?
>> 
>> So is this a bug and the script should NOT work for diesabled buttons or should it?
>> Thanks for any insight!
>> 
>> LC 7.1.3 stable on OS X 10.11.3

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From mark at livecode.com  Thu Mar 17 13:36:26 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:36:26 +0100
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=89=A0=20or=20not=20equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EAE078.2010302@fourthworld.com>
References: <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
	<56EAE078.2010302@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <be1ad7b5f74de64a6de8725a05d971f0@livecode.com>

I think it is important to remember the following quote:

"There are two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, 
naming things, and off-by-one errors."

At the end of the day syntax largely comes down to naming things - it is 
really not an easy task at all.

On 2016-03-17 17:51, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> In a language that has "playLoudness" to mean "soundVolume", a
> "destroyStack" property that doesn't destroy the stack, and "this me",
> adopting the world's most common way to express non-equivalence would
> seem a shoe-in.

Well "this me" was mine and I make no apologies for it. It is a 
relatively 'advanced' feature, and one for which no-one could come up 
with a better *implementable* piece of syntax for. I believe at the end 
point of the discussion about that particularly piece of syntax was - 
this is really really needed by those using chained behaviors in 
advanced ways, pretty much all of the potentially 'better' pieces of 
syntax were exceptionally hard to shoe-horn into the parser and when we 
have Open Language we can look at it again.

The "playLoudness" - I have no idea why that is that - it is a piece of 
history we are 'stuck' with for now; just like 'hilite'.

To be fair "destroyStack" should probably be "deleteStack" as the very 
used to destroy objects in LiveCode is "delete". I've never been 
entirely convinced by the 'purge' argument (as purge generally has a 
slightly different sense in computing); but nor have I ever entirely 
convinced about the not 'purge' argument. My general feeling has always 
been that the documentation just has to be better, and there are some 
important concepts which perhaps need to be 'bedded in' more than they 
are at the moment (i.e. the strict distinction between stacks and 
stackfiles; or things which are in-memory, and those which are on-disk).

> Esp. given that "<>" is supported but almost unique to our language,
> and "?" has been suggested by a member of the core dev team to be
> elevated from an undocumented convenience for HyperCard ports to a
> native token:
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/224664.html>

"<>" is certainly not unique to our language. Indeed see here:

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_operator

The use of <> is predominant in Pascal-like and BASIC-like languages.

In regards to Peter's post, he did say "there's no immediately obvious 
reason for this" - the key point here is "immediately obvious". There 
are good reasons why it does not work on platforms other Mac, and 
equally good reasons why we have never tried to make it.

> How does one even type "?" in any keyboard other than a Mac?

Exactly - one of the reasons why it didn't seem worth making it work 
cross-platform even when scripts became unicode enabled.

> If we were talking about "==" I could understand.  The difference
> between "=" and "==" in languages that support both accounts for
> millions of lost hours for developers and end-users due to accidental
> bugs every year.
> 
> But "!="?  I just don't see the harm.  Sometimes accommodating the
> rest of the world isn't a bad thing.

Isn't that thoroughly inconsistent though? Why is "!=" special?

If your only experience had been C-like languages, you might also try to 
use "==" for equality, and find it doesn't work. At that point you have 
to go and review the operators in the docs to see what the LiveCode 
language expects.

Also, it is important to remember that *some* operators exist in 
LiveCode which have the same names as those in C - for example "," and 
"&". Both of these operators do *very* different things in LiveCode. So, 
at the end of the day it comes down to the fact that if you are learning 
a language then learning its operators is also something you need to do.

> At a time when I hope we're all keenly sensitive to the need for
> increased adoption, this seems more of a focus on "We're different"
> than "We help you get the job done more efficiently".

I'm not sure I see how adding "!=" is going to suddenly open the 
flood-gates and see proportionally more users.

At the end of the day it is important that programming languages are 
consistent, well defined and well documented. LiveCode does reasonably 
well on the first two (indeed it now does a great deal better than it 
did from 7+ on the 'well-defined' aspect); it perhaps does not do so 
well on the documentation aspect and I do think that the arguments for 
adopting operators from other languages (for 'personal taste' reasons - 
i.e. yes to "!=" but not "==") are weak in comparison to just ensuring 
that the documentation of this important area of all programming 
languages is up to scratch.

Indeed, the general discussion internally ended up with the idea that a 
Script Editor feature which did an element of 'auto-correct' would be a 
far far better way to go. i.e. If you type "==" or "!=" in a place where 
"is" or "is not" would work the script editor would tell you - that way 
you actively *learn* what the operators are in a natural way; and in a 
way which doesn't have some of the problems outlined above.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From paul at researchware.com  Thu Mar 17 13:39:28 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:39:28 -0400
Subject: "the target" also valid for disabled buttons?
In-Reply-To: <DCA6A3F7-296D-4536-A9F8-717E7CD17C07@major-k.de>
References: <D9B4E5E0-3C25-4270-810D-FA33009CE447@major-k.de>
	<56EAE326.6000306@researchware.com>
	<DCA6A3F7-296D-4536-A9F8-717E7CD17C07@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <56EAEBD0.4020208@researchware.com>

On 3/17/2016 1:26 PM, Klaus major-k wrote:
> I do not think that the group script should be executed if I click on e.g. the disabled button ?Next?!
> Or should it? that is the big question :-) 

If the group is enabled, then yes, a handler in the group for the
message that would have been sent to the disabled control (i.e. mouseUp)
will execute.

Example: A mouseUp message is sent to the top most control. If that is
enabled and has a mouseUp handler, that is executed. If that control is
disabled or has no mouseUp handler, the message continues down the
message path to the next object (a parent group or the card or the stack
or the engine).

Richard Gaskin made an excellent map of LiveCode's message hierarchy. I
can't find my link to it at the moment, but perhaps if he sees this he
can report it.



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Mar 17 13:42:26 2016
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:42:26 +0100
Subject: "the target" also valid for disabled buttons?
In-Reply-To: <56EAEBD0.4020208@researchware.com>
References: <D9B4E5E0-3C25-4270-810D-FA33009CE447@major-k.de>
	<56EAE326.6000306@researchware.com>
	<DCA6A3F7-296D-4536-A9F8-717E7CD17C07@major-k.de>
	<56EAEBD0.4020208@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <5BC4EAA5-D7C9-455A-85C3-B6935BD1A754@major-k.de>

Hi Paul,

> Am 17.03.2016 um 18:39 schrieb Paul Dupuis <paul at researchware.com>:
> 
> On 3/17/2016 1:26 PM, Klaus major-k wrote:
>> I do not think that the group script should be executed if I click on e.g. the disabled button ?Next?!
>> Or should it? that is the big question :-) 
> 
> If the group is enabled, then yes, a handler in the group for the
> message that would have been sent to the disabled control (i.e. mouseUp)
> will execute.
> 
> Example: A mouseUp message is sent to the top most control. If that is
> enabled and has a mouseUp handler, that is executed. If that control is
> disabled or has no mouseUp handler, the message continues down the
> message path to the next object (a parent group or the card or the stack
> or the engine).

ah, OK, get it, thanks a lot!
Makes sense. :-)

> Richard Gaskin made an excellent map of LiveCode's message hierarchy. I
> can't find my link to it at the moment, but perhaps if he sees this he
> can report it.

Thanks, I know his site and his great articles!


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From iowahengst at mac.com  Thu Mar 17 13:59:22 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:59:22 -0500
Subject: listBehavior and mouse btn 3
Message-ID: <AADB591A-F1CC-4256-A84C-83A28D707FBD@mac.com>

Hi All,

I?m messing with listBehavior in fields really for the first time.

I?ve set the listBehavior to true. All works well with mouse button 1? line highlights, code runs? But, while the code runs with mouse button 3 (right click), the line does not highlight.

Am I missing a step, or is this normal? I found nothing in the dictionary about the mouse button making a difference. And, I?ve not found any specific reference to this issue in previous discussions of listBehavior.

Mac OSX 10.10.5  LC 7.1.1

Thanks for any thoughts.

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com




From livfoss at mac.com  Thu Mar 17 14:06:08 2016
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:06:08 +0100
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
Message-ID: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>

I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales, rather than selling via an agent or an app store type of arrangement. He?s in the US and I?m in the UK, or at any rate the EU. 

I think that if I sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment, I won?t have to charge sales tax anywhere in the European Union. But I am not sure about the US. It seems that some states charge sales tax on everything, while others (California, perhaps?) don?t charge if there is no physical fulfilment. I am not sure if the volume (or more accurately, the total value of sales per year) comes into it or not. It certainly does in Europe.

Some people on this list are selling apps, stacks etc in this way - can anyone explain how they see this? 

This may not be the right place to discuss the issue, but looking at the only forum topic which seems close - ?Marketing Your Products? - it seems pretty dead.

TIA

Graham


From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Thu Mar 17 14:11:09 2016
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:11:09 +0000
Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 15
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0.0 DP 16.

Developer Preview Release
=========================
Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your
stacks before testing them.

*IMPORTANT*: It is especially vital that you back up your stacks before
testing them in 8.0 DP 16, as there has been a change to the save command
in DP 13. The IDE has been updated to accommodate this change, but we
strongly recommend making back-ups in case there is unforeseen data loss.

*IMPORTANT*: Your stacks may appear different on first opening in 8.0 DP
16, due to the improvement in desktop OS theming introduced in DP 14. The
theming can be reverted to legacy on a per-object basis using the new
"theme" property. For more information, see the release notes.

Getting the Release
===================
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/.

Release Contents
================

Replacing text in fields
------------------------
Thanks to the feature exchange, you can now find and replace text in fields
while preserving the text's styling.

Completely revised widgets
--------------------------

All of the core widgets shipped in the IDE have been updated, giving them
much more consistent behaviour, property names, signal names, appearance,
and documentation.

Brand new Start Center
----------------------
The IDE has a new, useful, attractive, and smaller Start Center.

Interactive Tutorial
--------------------
First-time users are now invited to try a new interactive tutorial that
walks them through the process of making a complete mobile application with
LiveCode.

Themed UI fonts
---------------
Several special font names have been added to LiveCode so that you can, for
example, set the font of a control to the native, default font used for
buttons.

No CEF on Mac OS X
------------------
Due to the lack of support for 32-bit CEF on Mac OS X, we will no longer be
using libCEF to provide an embedded browser on OS X. This applies to both
the revBrowser external and the new browser widget.

Easy installation on Mac OS X
-----------------------------
LiveCode no longer has an installer on Mac OS X; just open the .DMG file
and drag the LiveCode app bundle to the Applications folder.


...and 69 bug fixes!

Known issues
============
* Windows 10 theming causes display issues with the dictionary, script
editor and property inspector

* CEF Browser (and therefore the dictionary and browser widget) does not
currently work on 32-bit Linux

* HTML5 standalones do not currently work when they contain extensions with
dependencies

* 64-bit standalones for Mac OS X do not have support for audio recording
or the revVideoGrabber external

* The tutorial is affected by a window shape issue on Windows, and has a
minor error in one of the scripts

Feedback
========
LiveCode 8 is still in development, so we'd love to hear any feedback you
have on it. There are a number of features that we'd like to implement but
aren't ready yet, and the existing features are subject to change during
development - we can't guarantee that extensions written in Developer
Previews will continue to work the same way in later versions.

Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93


Have fun!

The LiveCode Team


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 17 14:11:31 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:11:31 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <be1ad7b5f74de64a6de8725a05d971f0@livecode.com>
References: <be1ad7b5f74de64a6de8725a05d971f0@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56EAF353.5020905@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:

 > Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >> Esp. given that "<>" is supported but almost unique to our language..
 >
 > "<>" is certainly not unique to our language. Indeed see here:
 >
 >      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_operator
 >
 > The use of <> is predominant in Pascal-like and BASIC-like languages.

Agreed.  I use qualifiers like "almost" to account for such cases.


 >> If we were talking about "==" I could understand.  The difference
 >> between "=" and "==" in languages that support both accounts for
 >> millions of lost hours for developers and end-users due to accidental
 >> bugs every year.
 >>
 >> But "!="?  I just don't see the harm.  Sometimes accommodating the
 >> rest of the world isn't a bad thing.
 >
 > Isn't that thoroughly inconsistent though? Why is "!=" special?

It isn't.  That's my point.  It's extremely common.  Ordinary.  Habit 
for many, including Monte.  Not special at all.  And for that reason I 
could think of no reason to exclude it once the work of adding it was 
already done and delivered.


 >> At a time when I hope we're all keenly sensitive to the need for
 >> increased adoption, this seems more of a focus on "We're different"
 >> than "We help you get the job done more efficiently".
 >
 > I'm not sure I see how adding "!=" is going to suddenly open the
 > flood-gates and see proportionally more users.

It's possible to dismiss anything using reductio ad absurdum.  We could 
have a field day with that here, and two clever wordsmiths could have 
quite a time of it.  But instead I'll try to focus on actionable outcomes.

Of course no single token is going to open any floodgates.  But I do 
believe it's worth pausing now and then to consider things that are 
common in other languages which may remove impediments to learning 
LiveCode if adopted here.

Imagine if instead of the fairly common bracket syntax we use for arrays 
they had been implemented in something more English-like.  Ugh.  Arrays 
are nicely done here, compact and a joy to use - and extra bonus points 
that if you've used associative arrays in nearly any other language you 
can grasp them easily in LiveCode.  One less thing to unlearn.

LiveCode requires learning uncommon ways of doing things, and in 
exchange it offers uncommon productivity.  Where something is uncommon 
but not truly required, my own inclination is to reconsider it.  If 
LiveCode were to evolve into the world's first anomaly-free 
syntactically pure programming language that achievement would mean 
little if only a handful ever use it.


Every healthy project can benefit from having a BDFL, and on the whole 
I'm glad your ours.  It would be strange if any two people agreed on 
everything all of the time.  Now and then you and I will have different 
opinions.  This is one of those times.  Even when I disagree, I do not 
disrespect.  I won't belabor this point further.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Thu Mar 17 14:13:30 2016
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:13:30 +0000
Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 16
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_bCa0u+RR=Ljmwm+pirPSMzZe7RWoZn4oj3VY3LToxWw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0.0 DP 16.

Developer Preview Release
=========================
Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your
stacks before testing them.

*IMPORTANT*: It is especially vital that you back up your stacks before
testing them in 8.0 DP 16, as there has been a change to the save command
in DP 13. The IDE has been updated to accommodate this change, but we
strongly recommend making back-ups in case there is unforeseen data loss.

*IMPORTANT*: Your stacks may appear different on first opening in 8.0 DP
16, due to the improvement in desktop OS theming introduced in DP 14. The
theming can be reverted to legacy on a per-object basis using the new
"theme" property. For more information, see the release notes.

Getting the Release
===================
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/.

Release Contents
================

Replacing text in fields
------------------------
Thanks to the feature exchange, you can now find and replace text in fields
while preserving the text's styling.

Completely revised widgets
--------------------------

All of the core widgets shipped in the IDE have been updated, giving them
much more consistent behaviour, property names, signal names, appearance,
and documentation.

Brand new Start Center
----------------------
The IDE has a new, useful, attractive, and smaller Start Center.

Interactive Tutorial
--------------------
First-time users are now invited to try a new interactive tutorial that
walks them through the process of making a complete mobile application with
LiveCode.

Themed UI fonts
---------------
Several special font names have been added to LiveCode so that you can, for
example, set the font of a control to the native, default font used for
buttons.

No CEF on Mac OS X
------------------
Due to the lack of support for 32-bit CEF on Mac OS X, we will no longer be
using libCEF to provide an embedded browser on OS X. This applies to both
the revBrowser external and the new browser widget.

Easy installation on Mac OS X
-----------------------------
LiveCode no longer has an installer on Mac OS X; just open the .DMG file
and drag the LiveCode app bundle to the Applications folder.


...and 69 bug fixes!

Known issues
============
* Windows 10 theming causes display issues with the dictionary, script
editor and property inspector

* CEF Browser (and therefore the dictionary and browser widget) does not
currently work on 32-bit Linux

* HTML5 standalones do not currently work when they contain extensions with
dependencies

* 64-bit standalones for Mac OS X do not have support for audio recording
or the revVideoGrabber external

* The tutorial is affected by a window shape issue on Windows, and has a
minor error in one of the scripts

Feedback
========
LiveCode 8 is still in development, so we'd love to hear any feedback you
have on it. There are a number of features that we'd like to implement but
aren't ready yet, and the existing features are subject to change during
development - we can't guarantee that extensions written in Developer
Previews will continue to work the same way in later versions.

Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93


Have fun!

The LiveCode Team


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Mar 17 14:55:09 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:55:09 +0100
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
References: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3B46EB2A-BCCA-4543-80EE-EF1A6F2ACE73@m-r-d.de>

Graham,

if you want to go the save way, then you should consider using a service like Fastspring, KAGI or other.
They will fulfill the complete order,payment and deliver process for you including VAT if applicable. 

You will get your earnings and do not have to think about VAT.

Since 1st January as an european reseller  you have to use the VAT-rate of the  buyers country when selling digital products like videostreaming, licenses, downloads or whatever.
Before that date you could use the VAT-Rate of your country. At least here in Germany the 1st January was the deadline. I am not sure if all european countries already made this mandatory , but it is a european wide thing.

Because of this regulation i switched to KAGI and do not have to worry about the VAT stuff. 

Btw. if you want to protect your app you should think about Zygodact http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html> . It provides you an very easy to use registration serial key system to your LiveCode standalone or stack. It creates for each app a separate registration stack and a key generator stack.

I am using Zygodact with KAGI order system. KAGI?s order system supports Livecode stacks. So after successful payment KAGI automatically  to creates the registration key using a stack with key generator substack and sends out the registration info to the customer.  That works like a charm.

Regards,

Matthias



> Am 17.03.2016 um 19:06 schrieb Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com <mailto:livfoss at mac.com>>:
> 
> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales, rather than selling via an agent or an app store type of arrangement. He?s in the US and I?m in the UK, or at any rate the EU. 
> 
> I think that if I sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment, I won?t have to charge sales tax anywhere in the European Union. But I am not sure about the US. It seems that some states charge sales tax on everything, while others (California, perhaps?) don?t charge if there is no physical fulfilment. I am not sure if the volume (or more accurately, the total value of sales per year) comes into it or not. It certainly does in Europe.
> 
> Some people on this list are selling apps, stacks etc in this way - can anyone explain how they see this? 
> 
> This may not be the right place to discuss the issue, but looking at the only forum topic which seems close - ?Marketing Your Products? - it seems pretty dead.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From t.heaford at icloud.com  Thu Mar 17 15:14:21 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:14:21 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EAE078.2010302@fourthworld.com>
References: <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
	<56EAE078.2010302@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3E6A09BE-23A9-4274-9858-C4474495125A@icloud.com>

I think the answer is simple and has already been suggested in this thread.

Rely on ?is not? and remove ? for completeness and ensure that when a script includes ? on a Mac it will not compile.

Although I have filed a bug, I don?t believe LC have decided what to do yet?

It?s not hard to traverse a project and remove ? with is not.


All the best


Terry


> On 17 Mar 2016, at 16:51, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> In a language that has "playLoudness" to mean "soundVolume", a "destroyStack" property that doesn't destroy the stack, and "this me", adopting the world's most common way to express non-equivalence would seem a shoe-in.
> 
> Esp. given that "<>" is supported but almost unique to our language, and "?" has been suggested by a member of the core dev team to be elevated from an undocumented convenience for HyperCard ports to a native token:
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/224664.html <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/224664.html>>
> 
> How does one even type "?" in any keyboard other than a Mac?
> 
> If we were talking about "==" I could understand.  The difference between "=" and "==" in languages that support both accounts for millions of lost hours for developers and end-users due to accidental bugs every year.
> 
> But "!="?  I just don't see the harm.  Sometimes accommodating the rest of the world isn't a bad thing.
> 
> At a time when I hope we're all keenly sensitive to the need for increased adoption, this seems more of a focus on "We're different" than "We help you get the job done more efficiently".



From camm29 at tesco.net  Thu Mar 17 15:26:36 2016
From: camm29 at tesco.net (Camm)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:26:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <3B46EB2A-BCCA-4543-80EE-EF1A6F2ACE73@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <704072395.402833.1458242796258.JavaMail.root@md01.topaz.synacor.com>

I sell from the UK and went over to FastSpring due to the new VAT rules for downloads.
Works fine and no worries about VAT.
You can select to show the applicable VAT charge up front or at added at checkout for the customer.
Then all you need to do is declare Wholesale Sales from FastSpring as earnings.
Of course there are fees per transaction but its worth it !
I assume KAGI and others are similar.

Regards
Camm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthias Rebbe" <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de>
To: "How to use LiveCode" <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, 17 March, 2016 6:55:09 PM
Subject: Re: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?

Graham,

if you want to go the save way, then you should consider using a service like Fastspring, KAGI or other.
They will fulfill the complete order,payment and deliver process for you including VAT if applicable. 

You will get your earnings and do not have to think about VAT.

Since 1st January as an european reseller  you have to use the VAT-rate of the  buyers country when selling digital products like videostreaming, licenses, downloads or whatever.
Before that date you could use the VAT-Rate of your country. At least here in Germany the 1st January was the deadline. I am not sure if all european countries already made this mandatory , but it is a european wide thing.

Because of this regulation i switched to KAGI and do not have to worry about the VAT stuff. 

Btw. if you want to protect your app you should think about Zygodact http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html> . It provides you an very easy to use registration serial key system to your LiveCode standalone or stack. It creates for each app a separate registration stack and a key generator stack.

I am using Zygodact with KAGI order system. KAGI?s order system supports Livecode stacks. So after successful payment KAGI automatically  to creates the registration key using a stack with key generator substack and sends out the registration info to the customer.  That works like a charm.

Regards,

Matthias



> Am 17.03.2016 um 19:06 schrieb Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com <mailto:livfoss at mac.com>>:
> 
> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales, rather than selling via an agent or an app store type of arrangement. He?s in the US and I?m in the UK, or at any rate the EU. 
> 
> I think that if I sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment, I won?t have to charge sales tax anywhere in the European Union. But I am not sure about the US. It seems that some states charge sales tax on everything, while others (California, perhaps?) don?t charge if there is no physical fulfilment. I am not sure if the volume (or more accurately, the total value of sales per year) comes into it or not. It certainly does in Europe.
> 
> Some people on this list are selling apps, stacks etc in this way - can anyone explain how they see this? 
> 
> This may not be the right place to discuss the issue, but looking at the only forum topic which seems close - ?Marketing Your Products? - it seems pretty dead.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar 17 15:34:21 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 06:34:21 +1100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EAF353.5020905@fourthworld.com>
References: <be1ad7b5f74de64a6de8725a05d971f0@livecode.com>
	<56EAF353.5020905@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6FA03A7A-E1A7-49D6-A355-E7057CA09479@appisle.net>

I think for my part that either translation or on the fly linting in the script editor covers the occasional brain fart situation I was talking about. Or even just compilation errors that deal specifically with users entering the wrong operators.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 18 Mar 2016, at 5:11 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> > Isn't that thoroughly inconsistent though? Why is "!=" special?
> 
> It isn't.  That's my point.  It's extremely common.  Ordinary.  Habit for many, including Monte



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar 17 16:11:51 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:11:51 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=e2=89=a0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EADC81.3090707@livecode.com>
References: <1458200620710-4702289.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EAB907.8080604@fourthworld.com> <56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net>
	<56EADC81.3090707@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56EB0F87.6060107@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/17/2016 09:34 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> In the interests of completeness, maybe it would be helpful to quote the
> comment [1] fully:

Peter - sorry, wasn't trying to censor it, just trying to cut down on 
list traffic. I see I wasn't successful.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From hh at livecode.org  Thu Mar 17 03:58:40 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:58:40 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_Re=3A_Re=3A_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
Message-ID: <FAE2988F-397E-4C80-956F-EB33C2F27192@livecode.org>

> R.G. wrote
> If we were to look for not-equal-to operators that affect large numbers 
> of people, it might be worth considering supporting "!=", since a 
> majority of other languages support so for today's audience (and more 
> importantly tomorrow's) that habit impacts orders of magnitude more 
> developers than an old HyperCard-specific token.

This is certainly NOT a problem that is specially linked to HyperCard.
We have it always when importing any 8-bit data from old Macs.

These are more generaly the specials of the extended Macintosh codeTable
(here: char 173) and the differences to Latin-1 (or HTML entities, where
&#173; is &shy; the optional hyphen) etc.

"!=" is a good solution (as it is one out of the ASCCI 7-bit range).



From hh at livecode.org  Thu Mar 17 16:28:52 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:28:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=E2=89=A0_or_not_equal?=
In-Reply-To: <56EB0F87.6060107@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56E9290B.7080900@livecode.com> <56E92ECE.7050701@gmail.com>
	<56E96B49.8030805@fourthworld.com>
	<56E9EF98.6020208@ahsoftware.net>
	<654FE7D6-A6B5-47A1-AEFD-1933E20B2381@appisle.net>
	<1458200620710-4702289.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EAB907.8080604@fourthworld.com>
	<56EADAE1.7060602@ahsoftware.net> <56EADC81.3090707@livecode.com>
	<56EB0F87.6060107@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <1458246532369-4702317.post@n4.nabble.com>

I love LiveCode.

The english wording is as bad as my English and
by that, sometimes, for a few moments, I feel to
be a really "native" Livecode speaker  ;-)

My lesson of the day (this works, just try for several
values of a and b!).

on mouseUp
   put 1 into a
   put 0 into b
   isn't a=b
end mouseUp

on isn't that
   if that then answer "Yes, it is!"
   else answer "No, sorry no, it isn't."
end isn't

-- or, less wordy:
on isn't that
   answer that
end isn't

I love LiveCode.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/or-not-equal-tp4702248p4702317.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From livfoss at mac.com  Thu Mar 17 17:45:15 2016
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 22:45:15 +0100
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <3B46EB2A-BCCA-4543-80EE-EF1A6F2ACE73@m-r-d.de>
References: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
	<3B46EB2A-BCCA-4543-80EE-EF1A6F2ACE73@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <94DCD4A0-6090-4F4B-B65E-FA8F9BD258CB@mac.com>

Thanks to Matthias and Camm for your quick replies.

Matthias, your method looks like a very good solution to me, especially as we have already decided to use Zygodact.

I have more questions, for example about the link between KAGI and a web site which describes the product and offers a ?contact us? service etc - you have this; but I couldn?t understand how that works from my first look at the KAGI site. I also think you do your own fulfilment - providing the actual downloads to the user - although I see that KAGI offers to do it, presumably for a fee. I?d like to know how you made that decision.

If you haven?t the time to explain this in more detail I will just start talking to KAGI - but of course it?s really interesting to hear from someone in the LiveCode community.

Regards

Graham

> On 17 Mar 2016, at 19:55, Matthias Rebbe <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote:
> 
> Graham,
> 
> if you want to go the save way, then you should consider using a service like Fastspring, KAGI or other.
> They will fulfill the complete order,payment and deliver process for you including VAT if applicable. 
> 
> You will get your earnings and do not have to think about VAT.
> 
> Since 1st January as an european reseller  you have to use the VAT-rate of the  buyers country when selling digital products like videostreaming, licenses, downloads or whatever.
> Before that date you could use the VAT-Rate of your country. At least here in Germany the 1st January was the deadline. I am not sure if all european countries already made this mandatory , but it is a european wide thing.
> 
> Because of this regulation i switched to KAGI and do not have to worry about the VAT stuff. 
> 
> Btw. if you want to protect your app you should think about Zygodact http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html> . It provides you an very easy to use registration serial key system to your LiveCode standalone or stack. It creates for each app a separate registration stack and a key generator stack.
> 
> I am using Zygodact with KAGI order system. KAGI?s order system supports Livecode stacks. So after successful payment KAGI automatically  to creates the registration key using a stack with key generator substack and sends out the registration info to the customer.  That works like a charm.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 17.03.2016 um 19:06 schrieb Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com <mailto:livfoss at mac.com>>:
>> 
>> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales, rather than selling via an agent or an app store type of arrangement. He?s in the US and I?m in the UK, or at any rate the EU. 
>> 
>> I think that if I sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment, I won?t have to charge sales tax anywhere in the European Union. But I am not sure about the US. It seems that some states charge sales tax on everything, while others (California, perhaps?) don?t charge if there is no physical fulfilment. I am not sure if the volume (or more accurately, the total value of sales per year) comes into it or not. It certainly does in Europe.
>> 
>> Some people on this list are selling apps, stacks etc in this way - can anyone explain how they see this? 
>> 
>> This may not be the right place to discuss the issue, but looking at the only forum topic which seems close - ?Marketing Your Products? - it seems pretty dead.
>> 
>> TIA
>> 
>> Graham
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Mar 17 18:05:13 2016
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 22:05:13 +0000
Subject: Managing columns in a table datagrid in LC 8?
Message-ID: <D3117543.1F069%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

I?m probably missing something obvious but how do you add/delete/format columns in a table style data grid in LC 8?

Terry?


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar 17 18:12:15 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:12:15 -0500
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/17/2016 1:11 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
> No CEF on Mac OS X
> ------------------
> Due to the lack of support for 32-bit CEF on Mac OS X, we will no longer be
> using libCEF to provide an embedded browser on OS X. This applies to both
> the revBrowser external and the new browser widget.

This may be a problem. I'm loading an html file from disk. I can't get 
the widget to work with disk-based files, so I'm using 
revBrowserOpenCEF. I need to script navigation to various internal links 
in the file, like "#linkHere".

To do that I append the link marker to the file path, which I obtain 
with revBrowserGet("URL"). The CEF browser works with that, revBrowser 
doesn't. I've tried several different methods, but can't find a way in 
the older revBrowser to script navigation to an internal link. How would 
I do that?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 17 18:41:47 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:41:47 -0700
Subject: Version 8, DP16 Tutorial Runthrough
Message-ID: <E16D72EB-2A0C-421D-BB44-F3FB0918577A@earthednet.org>

Folks:
I just downloaded LC 8 DP16 and tried out the tutorial. I suspect that the authors of this would appreciate my notes as I went through the tutorial. First, off, it?s really nice and does show that Livecode can make very cool apps. Great job!

Since this is the first intro a newbie might get to Livecode, it?s really vital that the tutorial process be flawless. That?s why I?m hoping my comments below are helpful, and I do know how hard it can be, when the IDE may be a slightly moving target and there is LOTS to do.

As you can read from my notes below, I took the perspective of a new user who has never been exposed to livecode. There were a few gotchas that even had me scratching my head a bit. One very important thing when teaching newbies, is to scrupulously pay attention to how the instructions actually match what the newbie sees on the screen. There were a number of instances where I got stuck, but then got by by guessing what was meant. These are noted below.

??? My Notes ????
1. When open the property inspector for the stack, you have to click on the property inspector to get the instruction.
Careful to match instructions with actual labels on IDE. 
(e.g. ?Set the Navigation names of? ? There is no listing in the property inspector named ?Navigation Names?)
(e.g. Line Thickness.  you mean Line size)

2. It says in several places, to click on the ?grey icon?. You mean the black icon.
Clicking the property inspector icon doesn?t always open the property inspector. Double clicking on the control does.

3. I got stuck on setting the contents property of the Label field. Whoops, figured it out.
    The ?Contents? property is not listed on the property inspector. It is called ?Styled Text"

4. I got to where I grouped the header and footer to make it a shared. Whoops, the property inspector opened for one of the elements of the group. I used the right hand (upper) dropdown menu on the property inspector and it looked like there was a listing for a group. I selected that. It worked! A newbie probably wouldn?t find it.

5. Setting up the chart. ?Line colors?, the IDE shows ?Graph Colors?

6. Setting "navigation names" doesn?t match the property inspector.

7. The tutorial refuses to advance once the ?Code? button is clicked. The window opens, but the instruction pane stays where it was. Whoops, had to first click on the footer control.

8. Last card: It says ?Open the property Inspector? . The dropdown menu shows ?Card Inspector?

9. Setting up the navigation bar, the tutorial states to put in items as ?Calculator,Chart,Services?. But, each time a new item is added, a separate box is created for the entry.

???????????????????????????????????

I hope this helps the dev team.
Best,
Bill

William Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
prothero at earthednet.org






From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Thu Mar 17 19:18:52 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 23:18:52 +0000
Subject: Version 8, DP16 Tutorial Runthrough
In-Reply-To: <E16D72EB-2A0C-421D-BB44-F3FB0918577A@earthednet.org>
References: <E16D72EB-2A0C-421D-BB44-F3FB0918577A@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1gUdMP2MPCddm5u9tiFb01JpuY=xQ8h2pUj2hi7iR-EFQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think some of your issues may be because you have the property inspector
set to Property Labels -> Name of LiveCode property rather than Description
of Option. I'll add a bug report to make sure the latter option is selected
during the tutorial.

The double click on the inspector icon is actually a very subtle bug:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17154

All the rest is very helpful feedback, thank you!

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:41 PM William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
wrote:

> Folks:
> I just downloaded LC 8 DP16 and tried out the tutorial. I suspect that the
> authors of this would appreciate my notes as I went through the tutorial.
> First, off, it?s really nice and does show that Livecode can make very cool
> apps. Great job!
>
> Since this is the first intro a newbie might get to Livecode, it?s really
> vital that the tutorial process be flawless. That?s why I?m hoping my
> comments below are helpful, and I do know how hard it can be, when the IDE
> may be a slightly moving target and there is LOTS to do.
>
> As you can read from my notes below, I took the perspective of a new user
> who has never been exposed to livecode. There were a few gotchas that even
> had me scratching my head a bit. One very important thing when teaching
> newbies, is to scrupulously pay attention to how the instructions actually
> match what the newbie sees on the screen. There were a number of instances
> where I got stuck, but then got by by guessing what was meant. These are
> noted below.
>
> ??? My Notes ????
> 1. When open the property inspector for the stack, you have to click on
> the property inspector to get the instruction.
> Careful to match instructions with actual labels on IDE.
> (e.g. ?Set the Navigation names of? ? There is no listing in the property
> inspector named ?Navigation Names?)
> (e.g. Line Thickness.  you mean Line size)
>
> 2. It says in several places, to click on the ?grey icon?. You mean the
> black icon.
> Clicking the property inspector icon doesn?t always open the property
> inspector. Double clicking on the control does.
>
> 3. I got stuck on setting the contents property of the Label field.
> Whoops, figured it out.
>     The ?Contents? property is not listed on the property inspector. It is
> called ?Styled Text"
>
> 4. I got to where I grouped the header and footer to make it a shared.
> Whoops, the property inspector opened for one of the elements of the group.
> I used the right hand (upper) dropdown menu on the property inspector and
> it looked like there was a listing for a group. I selected that. It worked!
> A newbie probably wouldn?t find it.
>
> 5. Setting up the chart. ?Line colors?, the IDE shows ?Graph Colors?
>
> 6. Setting "navigation names" doesn?t match the property inspector.
>
> 7. The tutorial refuses to advance once the ?Code? button is clicked. The
> window opens, but the instruction pane stays where it was. Whoops, had to
> first click on the footer control.
>
> 8. Last card: It says ?Open the property Inspector? . The dropdown menu
> shows ?Card Inspector?
>
> 9. Setting up the navigation bar, the tutorial states to put in items as
> ?Calculator,Chart,Services?. But, each time a new item is added, a separate
> box is created for the entry.
>
> ???????????????????????????????????
>
> I hope this helps the dev team.
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> prothero at earthednet.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Mar 17 19:21:51 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 00:21:51 +0100
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <94DCD4A0-6090-4F4B-B65E-FA8F9BD258CB@mac.com>
References: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
	<3B46EB2A-BCCA-4543-80EE-EF1A6F2ACE73@m-r-d.de>
	<94DCD4A0-6090-4F4B-B65E-FA8F9BD258CB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D589E10D-8365-43CE-A2B7-00D224215C51@m-r-d.de>



> Am 17.03.2016 um 22:45 schrieb Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com <mailto:livfoss at mac.com>>:
> 
> Thanks to Matthias and Camm for your quick replies.
> 
> Matthias, your method looks like a very good solution to me, especially as we have already decided to use Zygodact.
> 
> I have more questions, for example about the link between KAGI and a web site which describes the product and offers a ?contact us? service etc - you have this; but I couldn?t understand how that works from my first look at the KAGI site. I also think you do your own fulfilment - providing the actual downloads to the user - although I see that KAGI offers to do it, presumably for a fee. I?d like to know how you made that decision.
> 

I am using KAGI only for the order process which includes the ordering, payment and delivering the serial key be email to the customer.

The reasons why my website offers the download of the software are that i have the website anyway and my software can be used in demo mode until it?s unlocked. So the user can download and try before buy. When the users decide to buy, they can either click on my website the link to my KAGI shop or click in my software a ?purchase? button which then opens the link to my KAGI shop  in the default browser.
If you haven?t a website then maybe using KAGI for providing the download of your software might be a solution. 

But for me that was never an option, because updates of my software are available for download immediately after i uploaded it to my server. 
Maybe this would also be the fact using KAGI for storing the software, but i do not know.

Btw, Kagi is providing you a template stack which you have to modify a little bit (adding the key generator stack and calling it and so on) to get it working with Zygodact. If you need further information how i managed that, please let me know. If this of interest for others in the list we can discuss it here or just send me an email offlist.

Matthias








> If you haven?t the time to explain this in more detail I will just start talking to KAGI - but of course it?s really interesting to hear from someone in the LiveCode community.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 17 Mar 2016, at 19:55, Matthias Rebbe <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de <mailto:matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de>> wrote:
>> 
>> Graham,
>> 
>> if you want to go the save way, then you should consider using a service like Fastspring, KAGI or other.
>> They will fulfill the complete order,payment and deliver process for you including VAT if applicable. 
>> 
>> You will get your earnings and do not have to think about VAT.
>> 
>> Since 1st January as an european reseller  you have to use the VAT-rate of the  buyers country when selling digital products like videostreaming, licenses, downloads or whatever.
>> Before that date you could use the VAT-Rate of your country. At least here in Germany the 1st January was the deadline. I am not sure if all european countries already made this mandatory , but it is a european wide thing.
>> 
>> Because of this regulation i switched to KAGI and do not have to worry about the VAT stuff. 
>> 
>> Btw. if you want to protect your app you should think about Zygodact http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html>> . It provides you an very easy to use registration serial key system to your LiveCode standalone or stack. It creates for each app a separate registration stack and a key generator stack.
>> 
>> I am using Zygodact with KAGI order system. KAGI?s order system supports Livecode stacks. So after successful payment KAGI automatically  to creates the registration key using a stack with key generator substack and sends out the registration info to the customer.  That works like a charm.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 17.03.2016 um 19:06 schrieb Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com <mailto:livfoss at mac.com> <mailto:livfoss at mac.com <mailto:livfoss at mac.com>>>:
>>> 
>>> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales, rather than selling via an agent or an app store type of arrangement. He?s in the US and I?m in the UK, or at any rate the EU. 
>>> 
>>> I think that if I sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment, I won?t have to charge sales tax anywhere in the European Union. But I am not sure about the US. It seems that some states charge sales tax on everything, while others (California, perhaps?) don?t charge if there is no physical fulfilment. I am not sure if the volume (or more accurately, the total value of sales per year) comes into it or not. It certainly does in Europe.
>>> 
>>> Some people on this list are selling apps, stacks etc in this way - can anyone explain how they see this? 
>>> 
>>> This may not be the right place to discuss the issue, but looking at the only forum topic which seems close - ?Marketing Your Products? - it seems pretty dead.
>>> 
>>> TIA
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From warren at warrensweb.us  Thu Mar 17 19:24:38 2016
From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:24:38 -0500
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
References: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56EB3CB6.6090302@warrensweb.us>

On 03/17/2016 01:06 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:
> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales...He?s in the US
>
> ..sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment...I am not sure about the US.

There is no sales tax charged for any online sales in the US except for 
sales to customers located within a state where the vendor has a 
physical office or point of sale. Your stateside partner probably knows 
this already. As far as software with no physical delivery goes, it 
could be considered several different ways which will vary from state to 
state but again you are only concerned with how the state where he is 
qualifies it. Ask your partner to contact the revenue department of the 
state in which he resides and ask them how to proceed. That would be the 
only state where you have any possible obligation and even then, 
depending on how your partnership/company is structured and how they 
consider this kind of product, you might not have any at all.


https://www.sba.gov/content/collecting-sales-tax-over-internet

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/businesstaxes/f/onlinesalestax.htm

http://www.inc.com/articles/2003/10/salestax.html

Good luck!

Warren



From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 17 20:12:59 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:12:59 -0700
Subject: Version 8, DP16 Tutorial Runthrough
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1gUdMP2MPCddm5u9tiFb01JpuY=xQ8h2pUj2hi7iR-EFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E16D72EB-2A0C-421D-BB44-F3FB0918577A@earthednet.org>
	<CAJR0Q1gUdMP2MPCddm5u9tiFb01JpuY=xQ8h2pUj2hi7iR-EFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46DB6042-7B30-4E6E-972D-25EF158C66C1@earthednet.org>

Ali:
That?s true. I had the Property Labels set to ?Description?. I actually never set it, but it was that way from earlier versions, probably. 
Best,
Bill

> On Mar 17, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> I think some of your issues may be because you have the property inspector
> set to Property Labels -> Name of LiveCode property rather than Description
> of Option. I'll add a bug report to make sure the latter option is selected
> during the tutorial.
> 
> The double click on the inspector icon is actually a very subtle bug:
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17154
> 
> All the rest is very helpful feedback, thank you!
> 
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:41 PM William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Folks:
>> I just downloaded LC 8 DP16 and tried out the tutorial. I suspect that the
>> authors of this would appreciate my notes as I went through the tutorial.
>> First, off, it?s really nice and does show that Livecode can make very cool
>> apps. Great job!
>> 
>> Since this is the first intro a newbie might get to Livecode, it?s really
>> vital that the tutorial process be flawless. That?s why I?m hoping my
>> comments below are helpful, and I do know how hard it can be, when the IDE
>> may be a slightly moving target and there is LOTS to do.
>> 
>> As you can read from my notes below, I took the perspective of a new user
>> who has never been exposed to livecode. There were a few gotchas that even
>> had me scratching my head a bit. One very important thing when teaching
>> newbies, is to scrupulously pay attention to how the instructions actually
>> match what the newbie sees on the screen. There were a number of instances
>> where I got stuck, but then got by by guessing what was meant. These are
>> noted below.
>> 
>> ??? My Notes ????
>> 1. When open the property inspector for the stack, you have to click on
>> the property inspector to get the instruction.
>> Careful to match instructions with actual labels on IDE.
>> (e.g. ?Set the Navigation names of? ? There is no listing in the property
>> inspector named ?Navigation Names?)
>> (e.g. Line Thickness.  you mean Line size)
>> 
>> 2. It says in several places, to click on the ?grey icon?. You mean the
>> black icon.
>> Clicking the property inspector icon doesn?t always open the property
>> inspector. Double clicking on the control does.
>> 
>> 3. I got stuck on setting the contents property of the Label field.
>> Whoops, figured it out.
>>    The ?Contents? property is not listed on the property inspector. It is
>> called ?Styled Text"
>> 
>> 4. I got to where I grouped the header and footer to make it a shared.
>> Whoops, the property inspector opened for one of the elements of the group.
>> I used the right hand (upper) dropdown menu on the property inspector and
>> it looked like there was a listing for a group. I selected that. It worked!
>> A newbie probably wouldn?t find it.
>> 
>> 5. Setting up the chart. ?Line colors?, the IDE shows ?Graph Colors?
>> 
>> 6. Setting "navigation names" doesn?t match the property inspector.
>> 
>> 7. The tutorial refuses to advance once the ?Code? button is clicked. The
>> window opens, but the instruction pane stays where it was. Whoops, had to
>> first click on the footer control.
>> 
>> 8. Last card: It says ?Open the property Inspector? . The dropdown menu
>> shows ?Card Inspector?
>> 
>> 9. Setting up the navigation bar, the tutorial states to put in items as
>> ?Calculator,Chart,Services?. But, each time a new item is added, a separate
>> box is created for the entry.
>> 
>> ???????????????????????????????????
>> 
>> I hope this helps the dev team.
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>> prothero at earthednet.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 17 21:58:03 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:58:03 -0700
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
Message-ID: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>

Folks:
My plot routines use fields as labels. Fields are created on the fly, the plot image is captured, and the fields are deleted. In LC8 DP16, I find that the field heights are messed up. I create the field and put text in it using the following function:

I know that fields work differently in version 8, but I thought the formattedHeight and formattedWidth should adjust the rect to make all of the text visible. This works fine in version 7
function iml_makeField tName,tText

	if there is no cd fld tName then

		create field tName

	end if

	put tText into fld tName

	set the visible of fld tName to FALSE

	set the showBorder of fld tName to FALSE

	set the style of fld tName to "transparent"

	set the textAlign of fld tName to "center"

	set the textfont of fld tName to "Arial"

	set the textSize of fld tName to 12

	set the borderWidth of fld tName to 0

	set the margins of fld tName to 2,3,0,0

	set the dontWrap of fld tName to true

	set the textHeight of fld tName to 20

	--wait for 0 seconds with messages

	set the fontStyle of fld tName to bold

	set the rect of fld tName to "0,0,"&(the formattedWidth of fld tName)&","&(the formattedHeight of fld tName)

	return the rect of fld tName

end iml_makeField


Any ideas?
Bill



From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 17 22:33:57 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:33:57 -0700
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <85F1C72B-C810-4338-9AA0-31A5AB40315E@earthednet.org>

I got it working better by increasing the settings of the margins and setting the textHeight to 0.

Bill

> On Mar 17, 2016, at 6:58 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> My plot routines use fields as labels. Fields are created on the fly, the plot image is captured, and the fields are deleted. In LC8 DP16, I find that the field heights are messed up. I create the field and put text in it using the following function:
> 
> I know that fields work differently in version 8, but I thought the formattedHeight and formattedWidth should adjust the rect to make all of the text visible. This works fine in version 7
> function iml_makeField tName,tText
> 
> 	if there is no cd fld tName then
> 
> 		create field tName
> 
> 	end if
> 
> 	put tText into fld tName
> 
> 	set the visible of fld tName to FALSE
> 
> 	set the showBorder of fld tName to FALSE
> 
> 	set the style of fld tName to "transparent"
> 
> 	set the textAlign of fld tName to "center"
> 
> 	set the textfont of fld tName to "Arial"
> 
> 	set the textSize of fld tName to 12
> 
> 	set the borderWidth of fld tName to 0
> 
> 	set the margins of fld tName to 2,3,0,0
> 
> 	set the dontWrap of fld tName to true
> 
> 	set the textHeight of fld tName to 20
> 
> 	--wait for 0 seconds with messages
> 
> 	set the fontStyle of fld tName to bold
> 
> 	set the rect of fld tName to "0,0,"&(the formattedWidth of fld tName)&","&(the formattedHeight of fld tName)
> 
> 	return the rect of fld tName
> 
> end iml_makeField
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> Bill
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 17 23:45:43 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 03:45:43 +0000
Subject: LiveCode & OpenCart
In-Reply-To: <21E3A9DA-E4F1-43B7-ABCF-D8A826307448@telenet.be>
References: <21E3A9DA-E4F1-43B7-ABCF-D8A826307448@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <etPan.56eb79e6.520a87cd.2ad@Brahmanathaswami.local>

It's quite straight forward. i believe there were some old remote SQL examples around here... I have an old stack here from 2004 i can send to you. (email me off line)   it's just a matter of entering the correct remote host.

typical connection script looks like this

on mouseUp
  put fld "db user" into dbUser
  put fld "db pass" into dbPass
  put fld "db path" into dbName
  put fld "db address" into dbAddr
  if dbAddr is empty then put "localhost" into dbAddr

  put revOpenDatabase("MySQL",dbAddr,dbName,dbUser,dbPass) into dbresult
  if dbresult is a number then
    put dbresult into fld "db ID"
  else
    answer dbResult
  end if

end mouseUp

where dbAddress is your server's absolute URL like my.domain.com...

But there may be issues with permissions on the web  server, in recent years the idea that you would keep the MySQL port (usually set to 3306) open and listening to the outside has been deemed really, REALLY bad practice. If your client is PCI compliant, then it will definitely be forbidden. But there are ways around this, assuming you have control over the firewall you can set the MySQL port to accept only connections from specific IP's

OTOH, you can avoid all those issues by setting up an API on the server using LC Server or PHP and then you can POST to the API and let the API talk to the database. That's what our desktop client does that talks to our database at www.himalayanacademy.com

It's easy enough to install RevIgniter on the same web server instance... it does not matter that the main site is also running some PHP CMS... you can run revIgniter right on the same web server instance and then use all of Ralf marvelous active db libs for your API. So you have revIgniter or LC server talking to the same database as Open Cart.

You can even have the API be in PHP and post to that and let the PHP do the talking with the database.   with the new LC JSON lib in LC 8 it's easy to take the kind of spreadsheet data you are talking about, package it into a file, post to the server API and that API inserts/ updates the database.




On February 10, 2016 at 6:56:33 AM, tkuypers at telenet.be (tkuypers at telenet.be<mailto:tkuypers at telenet.be>) wrote:

I know there are all kinds of security issues which makes this not so obvious, but maybe someone figured out a way to make this connection?

From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar 18 00:17:36 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:17:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>

I deleted the four lines (*) of your function (see citation below)
and inserted instead the following 4 lines, in that order, at end of it.

  set fixedLineHeight of fld tName to true
  set textSize of fld tName to 12
  set textHeight of fld tName to 20
  return (0,0,the formattedWidth of fld tName, \
             the formattedHeight of fld tName)

because
1. the default setting of fixedLineHeight may have changed?
2. why use possible update bugs of "rect" if not needed?

Works fine here.

> William P. wrote:
> ==
function iml_makeField tName,tText
  if there is no cd fld tName then
    create field tName
  end if
  put tText into fld tName
  set the visible of fld tName to FALSE
  set the showBorder of fld tName to FALSE
  set the style of fld tName to "transparent"
  set the textAlign of fld tName to "center"
  set the textfont of fld tName to "Arial"
* set the textSize of fld tName to 12
  set the borderWidth of fld tName to 0
  set the margins of fld tName to 2,3,0,0
  set the dontWrap of fld tName to true
* set the textHeight of fld tName to 20
  --wait for 0 seconds with messages
  set the fontStyle of fld tName to bold
* set the rect of fld tName to "0,0,"& \
        (the formattedWidth of fld tName) &","&\
        (the formattedHeight of fld tName)
* return the rect of fld tName
end iml_makeField
> ==



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problems-creating-a-field-in-LC8-DP16-tp4702326p4702329.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Fri Mar 18 01:39:32 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 22:39:32 -0700
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
	<1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>

So, I guess we can't count on the formattedHeight and formattedWidth to return dimensions of a rect that will show all of the text in a field? I would like to keep the rect of the field as small as possible. I also use it to make a 90 degree rotated label. 

If this is a manifestation of a bug, I will probably just increase the space around the text.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 17, 2016, at 9:17 PM, -hh <hh at livecode.org> wrote:
> 
> I deleted the four lines (*) of your function (see citation below)
> and inserted instead the following 4 lines, in that order, at end of it.
> 
>  set fixedLineHeight of fld tName to true
>  set textSize of fld tName to 12
>  set textHeight of fld tName to 20
>  return (0,0,the formattedWidth of fld tName, \
>             the formattedHeight of fld tName)
> 
> because
> 1. the default setting of fixedLineHeight may have changed?
> 2. why use possible update bugs of "rect" if not needed?
> 
> Works fine here.
> 
>> William P. wrote:
>> ==
> function iml_makeField tName,tText
>  if there is no cd fld tName then
>    create field tName
>  end if
>  put tText into fld tName
>  set the visible of fld tName to FALSE
>  set the showBorder of fld tName to FALSE
>  set the style of fld tName to "transparent"
>  set the textAlign of fld tName to "center"
>  set the textfont of fld tName to "Arial"
> * set the textSize of fld tName to 12
>  set the borderWidth of fld tName to 0
>  set the margins of fld tName to 2,3,0,0
>  set the dontWrap of fld tName to true
> * set the textHeight of fld tName to 20
>  --wait for 0 seconds with messages
>  set the fontStyle of fld tName to bold
> * set the rect of fld tName to "0,0,"& \
>        (the formattedWidth of fld tName) &","&\
>        (the formattedHeight of fld tName)
> * return the rect of fld tName
> end iml_makeField
>> ==
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problems-creating-a-field-in-LC8-DP16-tp4702326p4702329.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From monte at appisle.net  Fri Mar 18 01:42:33 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 16:42:33 +1100
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
	<1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <EE5A0CBD-280B-4737-A1C6-725FC1563038@appisle.net>


> On 18 Mar 2016, at 4:39 PM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> So, I guess we can't count on the formattedHeight and formattedWidth to return dimensions of a rect that will show all of the text in a field? I would like to keep the rect of the field as small as possible. I also use it to make a 90 degree rotated label. 

I haven?t looked at your specific issue but for what it?s worth it is very easy to make a rotating text widget. Was my first experiment.

Cheers

Monte

From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar 18 03:05:26 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 00:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <EE5A0CBD-280B-4737-A1C6-725FC1563038@appisle.net>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
	<1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>
	<EE5A0CBD-280B-4737-A1C6-725FC1563038@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <1458284726650-4702332.post@n4.nabble.com>

William P. wrote:
> So, I guess we can't count on the formattedHeight and formattedWidth
> to return dimensions of a rect that will show all of the text in a field?

Sorry? The (modified) function works here as it should, I wrote "works fine
here".
I think that simply the fixedTextHeight isn't set to true any more by
default.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problems-creating-a-field-in-LC8-DP16-tp4702326p4702332.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Fri Mar 18 03:46:49 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 07:46:49 +0000
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>

On 17/03/2016 22:12, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/17/2016 1:11 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
>> No CEF on Mac OS X
>> ------------------
>> Due to the lack of support for 32-bit CEF on Mac OS X, we will no
>> longer be
>> using libCEF to provide an embedded browser on OS X. This applies to both
>> the revBrowser external and the new browser widget.
>
> This may be a problem. I'm loading an html file from disk. I can't get
> the widget to work with disk-based files, so I'm using
> revBrowserOpenCEF. I need to script navigation to various internal links
> in the file, like "#linkHere".
>
> To do that I append the link marker to the file path, which I obtain
> with revBrowserGet("URL"). The CEF browser works with that, revBrowser
> doesn't. I've tried several different methods, but can't find a way in
> the older revBrowser to script navigation to an internal link. How would
> I do that?

Hi Jacqueline,

Have you tried opening the page in a browser widget, and then using the 
new "do _ in _" syntax to run some JS in the widget that sets 
"window.location.hash"?

If that's not clear I can try and find the time to put together a full 
example for you...

                              Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From admin at FlexibleLearning.com  Fri Mar 18 04:56:45 2016
From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 08:56:45 -0000
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
Message-ID: <006501d180f4$1a0b78b0$4e226a10$@FlexibleLearning.com>

The key word in the new rules for EU VAT is "automated". If your software or
a serial key is manually issued by email, the sale is not automated and not
within the scope of the regulations...

https://whitehall-admin.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/
uploads/attachment_data/file/415931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf

This is my understanding.

Hugh Senior

 
> I sell from the UK and went over to FastSpring due to the new VAT rules
for
> downloads.
> Works fine and no worries about VAT.
> You can select to show the applicable VAT charge up front or at added at
> checkout for the customer.
> Then all you need to do is declare Wholesale Sales from FastSpring as
> earnings.
> Of course there are fees per transaction but its worth it !
> I assume KAGI and others are similar.
> 
> Regards
> Camm




From mark at livecode.com  Fri Mar 18 05:33:11 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 10:33:11 +0100
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <decac5adb08685e9eef586aa0ee95f64@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-17 23:12, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> This may be a problem. I'm loading an html file from disk. I can't get
> the widget to work with disk-based files, so I'm using
> revBrowserOpenCEF. I need to script navigation to various internal
> links in the file, like "#linkHere".

Can you file a bug with more details so we can take a look.

> To do that I append the link marker to the file path, which I obtain
> with revBrowserGet("URL"). The CEF browser works with that, revBrowser
> doesn't. I've tried several different methods, but can't find a way in
> the older revBrowser to script navigation to an internal link. How
> would I do that?

To be fair, I think Peter's suggestion of how to navigate is probably a 
neater one than fiddling with the URL.

However, I think it would make sense to ensure you can just copy/paste a 
URL from a normal browser into the widget's URL property and have it do 
the same thing.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch  Fri Mar 18 06:27:56 2016
From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:27:56 +0100
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
Message-ID: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>

In LiveCode 8 I can no longer download Stacks (click Sample Stacks) from the
online sample stack portal, the download/upload stack called ?Sample Stacks? is
replaced with a link to http://livecodeshare.runrev.com.

Will that stay, or is a better or different download Stack, for the final version in
the works ?

Regards
Rolf


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Fri Mar 18 06:34:05 2016
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:34:05 +0100
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <3B46EB2A-BCCA-4543-80EE-EF1A6F2ACE73@m-r-d.de>
References: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
	<3B46EB2A-BCCA-4543-80EE-EF1A6F2ACE73@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <D3E55516-60EA-4ABD-8B90-B7DB5E669E42@economy-x-talk.com>

About VAT: small companies can ignore the new rules. Check the tables on the website of your tax office for threshold values. 

--
Kind regards,

Mark Schonewille
Economy-x-Talk
Http://economy-x-talk.com

Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com


Op 17 mrt. 2016 om 19:55 heeft Matthias Rebbe <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> het volgende geschreven:

> Graham,
> 
> if you want to go the save way, then you should consider using a service like Fastspring, KAGI or other.
> They will fulfill the complete order,payment and deliver process for you including VAT if applicable. 
> 
> You will get your earnings and do not have to think about VAT.
> 
> Since 1st January as an european reseller  you have to use the VAT-rate of the  buyers country when selling digital products like videostreaming, licenses, downloads or whatever.
> Before that date you could use the VAT-Rate of your country. At least here in Germany the 1st January was the deadline. I am not sure if all european countries already made this mandatory , but it is a european wide thing.
> 
> Because of this regulation i switched to KAGI and do not have to worry about the VAT stuff. 
> 
> Btw. if you want to protect your app you should think about Zygodact http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html> . It provides you an very easy to use registration serial key system to your LiveCode standalone or stack. It creates for each app a separate registration stack and a key generator stack.
> 
> I am using Zygodact with KAGI order system. KAGI?s order system supports Livecode stacks. So after successful payment KAGI automatically  to creates the registration key using a stack with key generator substack and sends out the registration info to the customer.  That works like a charm.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 17.03.2016 um 19:06 schrieb Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com <mailto:livfoss at mac.com>>:
>> 
>> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales, rather than selling via an agent or an app store type of arrangement. He?s in the US and I?m in the UK, or at any rate the EU. 
>> 
>> I think that if I sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment, I won?t have to charge sales tax anywhere in the European Union. But I am not sure about the US. It seems that some states charge sales tax on everything, while others (California, perhaps?) don?t charge if there is no physical fulfilment. I am not sure if the volume (or more accurately, the total value of sales per year) comes into it or not. It c



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Fri Mar 18 06:54:45 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 10:54:45 +0000
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>



On 18/03/2016 10:27, Rolf Kocherhans wrote:
> In LiveCode 8 I can no longer download Stacks (click Sample Stacks) from the
> online sample stack portal, the download/upload stack called ?Sample Stacks? is
> replaced with a link to http://livecodeshare.runrev.com.
>
> Will that stay, or is a better or different download Stack, for the final version in
> the works ?

Hi Rolf,

I've asked Elanor (who wrote the new Start Center) and she says:

 > You can still download Sample Stacks.  Rather than using the Sample 
Stacks window within the IDE we now open the LiveCode Share site in a 
browser.  All the same sample stacks are available there
 >
 > To download a stack just select it in the list to see the details. 
There is a Download Now button which allows you to download the stack.
 >
 > Kind regards,
 >
 > Elanor

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From dave at applicationinsight.com  Fri Mar 18 06:48:42 2016
From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 03:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
	<1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <1458298122375-4702339.post@n4.nabble.com>

There WAS an issue with formattedheight for fields with non-standard margins
between dp8 and p15 (http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16977) -
but in dp16 I find them now fixed so as far as I'm concerned formattedheight
is fine in dp16



-----
"The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time."
Peter M. Brigham 
--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problems-creating-a-field-in-LC8-DP16-tp4702326p4702339.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From james at thehales.id.au  Fri Mar 18 09:17:13 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 06:17:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error in DG row behaviour crashing LC?
In-Reply-To: <56E9918E.5040103@fourthworld.com>
References: <1458141745708-4702265.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56E9918E.5040103@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1458307033685-4702340.post@n4.nabble.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote
> It would be helpful to check this under the current versions of v7 and 
> v7 (7.1.3rc1 and 8.0dp15 respectively), and if the crash recurs in 
> either please submit a bug report.

Interestingly I attempted to do just that. But rather than threaten the app
I am working on (one crash did strange things to all the fonts on relaunch)
I decided to make a test stack to submit.

This was both good news and bad news.

Bad news: Couldn't reproduce the crash - obviously not simply what I
initially thought.
Good news: In trying to reproduce the crash I ended up getting the DG to
work as I originally wanted.

Moral of the story: Making a simplified stack to demonstrate a "bug" can
bring all sorts of gifts.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Error-in-DG-row-behaviour-crashing-LC-tp4702265p4702340.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 10:21:09 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 07:21:09 -0700
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56EC0ED5.2060605@fourthworld.com>

William Prothero wrote:
...
 >   set the fontStyle of fld tName to bold

Been spending too much time with CSS lately? :)

I think that should be:

    set the textStyle of fld tName to bold

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 10:29:47 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 07:29:47 -0700
Subject: Error in DG row behaviour crashing LC?
In-Reply-To: <1458307033685-4702340.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458307033685-4702340.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56EC10DB.50107@fourthworld.com>

James Hale wrote:
> Richard Gaskin wrote
>> It would be helpful to check this under the current versions of v7 and
>> v7 (7.1.3rc1 and 8.0dp15 respectively), and if the crash recurs in
>> either please submit a bug report.
>
> Interestingly I attempted to do just that. But rather than threaten the app
> I am working on (one crash did strange things to all the fonts on relaunch)
> I decided to make a test stack to submit.
>
> This was both good news and bad news.
>
> Bad news: Couldn't reproduce the crash - obviously not simply what I
> initially thought.
> Good news: In trying to reproduce the crash I ended up getting the DG to
> work as I originally wanted.
>
> Moral of the story: Making a simplified stack to demonstrate a "bug" can
> bring all sorts of gifts.

Hmmmm...now I have that nagging awareness of a crasher bug somewhere in 
the engine...

If you have time it might be helpful to make a copy of your stack and 
try that in v8 again, and if you get a reproducible recipe send a report 
to the team and make arrangements to send that stack to them separately 
(they're quite good about working with proprietary stacks and disposing 
of them once they've resolved the issue).

On the other hand, it may just be bit rot. I've seen that with some 
JPEGs in my archives, and while rare it could affect any file.  Storage 
devices and RAM are as imperfect as everything else we work with on this 
planet (one more reason to spring the extra bugs for ECC RAM when you 
mobo supports it).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar 18 10:24:12 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 07:24:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
	<56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>

Salut Rolf and Peter,

I prefer also the "old" stack (of Elanor?), so I use on LC 8 the
following, what is at least 10 times faster than 'livecodeshare'.

on mouseUp
  put specialFolderPath("engine") into p
  set itemdel to slash
  put "Tools/Toolset/palettes/revonline.rev" into last item of p
  set itemdel to comma
  palette stack p
end mouseUp

The stack looks really good in LC 8 with native theme ;-)

hh

p.s. @Peter: Perhaps this could become also a plugin, like the
"Application Browser"? At least as read-only-the-collection (in case
the script update for the stack is too much work)?


Peter TB Brett wrote
> On 18/03/2016 10:27, Rolf Kocherhans wrote:
>> In LiveCode 8 I can no longer download Stacks (click Sample Stacks) from
>> the
>> online sample stack portal, the download/upload stack called ?Sample
>> Stacks? is
>> replaced with a link to http://livecodeshare.runrev.com.
>>
>> Will that stay, or is a better or different download Stack, for the final
>> version in
>> the works ?
> 
> Hi Rolf,
> 
> I've asked Elanor (who wrote the new Start Center) and she says:
> 
>  > You can still download Sample Stacks.  Rather than using the Sample 
> Stacks window within the IDE we now open the LiveCode Share site in a 
> browser.  All the same sample stacks are available there
>  >
>  > To download a stack just select it in the list to see the details. 
> There is a Download Now button which allows you to download the stack.
>  >
>  > Kind regards,
>  >
>  > Elanor
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett &lt;

> peter.brett@

> &gt;
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list

> use-livecode at .runrev

> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Sample-Stacks-Stack-in-Livecode-8-Gone-tp4702336p4702343.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch  Fri Mar 18 10:55:56 2016
From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:55:56 +0100
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1458298802.32397.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.3.1458298802.32397.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6A32EEB1-A0E8-4B92-8281-E6BA603E16C9@id.uzh.ch>

Hello Elanor & Peter

There is a misunderstanding :-( !

I did not ask how I can download stack, I know very well
of the existence of the webpage and I have seen Download Buttons
before - thanks ?!

My question was if the download environment within LiveCode wich
is now gone in the 8 line, will return or if you plan to stick with the webpage
only.

And if you stick with the webpage there is no upload button :-)

Regards
Rolf


> Am 18.03.2016 um 12:00 schrieb use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Hi Rolf,
> 
> I've asked Elanor (who wrote the new Start Center) and she says:
> 
>> You can still download Sample Stacks.  Rather than using the Sample 
> Stacks window within the IDE we now open the LiveCode Share site in a 
> browser.  All the same sample stacks are available there
>> 
>> To download a stack just select it in the list to see the details. 
> There is a Download Now button which allows you to download the stack.




From prothero at earthednet.org  Fri Mar 18 11:19:46 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 08:19:46 -0700
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <EE5A0CBD-280B-4737-A1C6-725FC1563038@appisle.net>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
	<1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>
	<EE5A0CBD-280B-4737-A1C6-725FC1563038@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <5C244FEE-0CDD-4985-B525-2790E055C470@earthednet.org>

Monte,
Tnx, but I've solved that one. What's screwing me up is that the formattedHeight and formattedWidth don't give the correct answers. I don't know if it's a bug or something that's changed with the updated field code. I can fix it by adding to the margins. I just hate to do a workaround that may need to be modified in the future.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 17, 2016, at 10:42 PM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 18 Mar 2016, at 4:39 PM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> So, I guess we can't count on the formattedHeight and formattedWidth to return dimensions of a rect that will show all of the text in a field? I would like to keep the rect of the field as small as possible. I also use it to make a 90 degree rotated label. 
> 
> I haven?t looked at your specific issue but for what it?s worth it is very easy to make a rotating text widget. Was my first experiment.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From james at thehales.id.au  Fri Mar 18 11:20:28 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 08:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using the SHELL function to GREP a body of text
Message-ID: <1458314428635-4702346.post@n4.nabble.com>

I have large bodies of xhtml/html text stored in an array which I would like
to clean up using GREP.
I have been using the 'replacetext' function to great effect but I have hit
an impasse.

There are some situations where I think I really need to use back references
but LC's GREP does not allow them.

for example:


In the example I only want to keep the 'id' attributes but retain the tags
they are in. I have no way of knowing what other attributes are present.

I initially thought I could do this using a non-greedy search pattern which
works in the above case.
eg 


But if the text was...

My non-greedy search pattern would grab  and I would end up with...

losing the id attribute of the header tag.


So I am wondering if it is possible to pass a text variable through the
shell function which would then use a shell script to handle my GREP. 

My app will be deployed on OS X and possible iOS.

At this stage I have not considered the nature of the script I should
construct nor the GREP required to do what I am attempting. (Any hints
gratefully accepted.)

Right now I just want to know if this is a workable approach?

James



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/using-the-SHELL-function-to-GREP-a-body-of-text-tp4702346.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Fri Mar 18 11:57:50 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:57:50 +0000
Subject: using the SHELL function to GREP a body of text
In-Reply-To: <1458314428635-4702346.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458314428635-4702346.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56EC257E.7090304@livecode.com>

On 18/03/2016 15:20, jameshale wrote:
> I have large bodies of xhtml/html text stored in an array which I would like
> to clean up using GREP.
> I have been using the 'replacetext' function to great effect but I have hit
> an impasse.
>
> There are some situations where I think I really need to use back references
> but LC's GREP does not allow them.

Hi James,

Unfortunately XHTML and HTML are not regular languages, which means that 
they cannot be processed correctly with regular expressions.

Indeed, "Implement an HTML parser using regular expressions" is a 
well-known prank project to suggest for inexperienced developers to 
waste their time on...

So, your approach is sadly not workable.

If you're processing XHTML, I recommend using revXML.

If you need to process arbitrary HTML, then unfortunately the only 
sensible option is to use a browser...

                                Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From james at thehales.id.au  Fri Mar 18 12:23:33 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 09:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using the SHELL function to GREP a body of text
In-Reply-To: <56EC257E.7090304@livecode.com>
References: <1458314428635-4702346.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EC257E.7090304@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1458318213599-4702348.post@n4.nabble.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote
> Unfortunately XHTML and HTML are not regular languages, which means that 
> they cannot be processed correctly with regular expressions.
> 
> Indeed, "Implement an HTML parser using regular expressions" is a 
> well-known prank project to suggest for inexperienced developers to 
> waste their time on...
> 
> So, your approach is sadly not workable.
> 
> If you're processing XHTML, I recommend using revXML.
> 
> If you need to process arbitrary HTML, then unfortunately the only 
> sensible option is to use a browser...

Bummer.
Not only are XHTML and HTML not regular languages but their use in ePub's is
even more irregular (if that is possible.)
I have some texts which include both  forms: 
Others where every tag 'h', 'p' etc has an id attribute.

A browser is not an option as I will need to use LCs chunking and text
selection features.

I am using the htmltext of a field and given the htmltext function ignores
most of what I was trying to remove it probably doesn't matter in the end. 
Just a bit untidy.

Thanks Peter.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/using-the-SHELL-function-to-GREP-a-body-of-text-tp4702346p4702348.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Fri Mar 18 14:09:29 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:09:29 -0700
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <1458284726650-4702332.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
	<1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>
	<EE5A0CBD-280B-4737-A1C6-725FC1563038@appisle.net>
	<1458284726650-4702332.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <E740C150-C4DB-497D-BE1C-36060FA708B7@earthednet.org>

HH, and Richard:
Richard: Thanks for noticing the error in setting the textStyle.

Is this a bug? Shouldn?t the formattedHeight and formattedWidth show the text? I?m content to use my margins adjustment, but hope it doesn?t need to be revisited in the future. If so, it?s a small thing, but...

hh: 
Thanks for your suggestions. The problem that I have with your solution is that it works for very short texts, but for longer, the field is not resized to show the entire text string. The only way I can get this to work and show all of the text in the field is to set the margins to a value that works. The final solution I have is below:

function iml_makeField tName,tText

	if there is no cd fld tName then

		create field tName

	end if

	put tText into fld tName

	set the visible of fld tName to FALSE

	set the showBorder of fld tName to FALSE

	set the style of fld tName to "transparent"

	set the textAlign of fld tName to "center"

	set the textfont of fld tName to "Arial"

	set the textSize of fld tName to 12

	set the margins of fld tName to "4,2,4,6"

	set the dontWrap of fld tName to true

	set the textHeight of fld tName to 20

	set the fixedLineHeight of fld tName to TRUE

	set the textStyle of fld tName to bold

	put "0,0,"&(the formattedWidth of fld tName)&","&(the formattedHeight of fld tName) into tRect

	set the rect of fld tName to tRect

	return the rect of fld tName

end iml_makeField

> On Mar 18, 2016, at 12:05 AM, -hh <hh at livecode.org> wrote:
> 
> William P. wrote:
>> So, I guess we can't count on the formattedHeight and formattedWidth
>> to return dimensions of a rect that will show all of the text in a field?
> 
> Sorry? The (modified) function works here as it should, I wrote "works fine
> here".
> I think that simply the fixedTextHeight isn't set to true any more by
> default.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problems-creating-a-field-in-LC8-DP16-tp4702326p4702332.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 14:35:00 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:35:00 -0700
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <E740C150-C4DB-497D-BE1C-36060FA708B7@earthednet.org>
References: <E740C150-C4DB-497D-BE1C-36060FA708B7@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56EC4A54.7010303@fourthworld.com>

William Prothero wrote:

> Is this a bug? Shouldn?t the formattedHeight and formattedWidth show the text? I?m content to use my margins adjustment, but hope it doesn?t need to be revisited in the future. If so, it?s a small thing, but...

The code looks like it should work, and here formattedWidth and 
formattedHeight appear to work well.

Is there any chance you may have more than one field with the same name 
on that card?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Mar 18 14:55:05 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:55:05 -0700
Subject: [ANN] tmControl2 v2.2 Released for LiveCode 7
In-Reply-To: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D3070043.7BD02%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <D3119B66.7D0DA%scott@tactilemedia.com>

FYI, on Sunday April 20 midnight PST, all introductory discounts for
tmControl2 v2.2 will end.

If you're looking for a complete set of mobile controls for iOS, with
example code and implementations, tmControl2 is a good option.  Visit
http://tmtools.tactilemedia.com/tmcontrol2 for details.


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/10/16, 10:43 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

>Happy to announce a major new update of my tmControl2 iOS control set for
>LiveCode with tons of fixes and lots of new features. A limited time
>discount is available for new and existing customers.
>
>Get the full details here:
>http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/10/announcement-tmcontrol2-v2-2/





From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Mar 18 14:59:35 2016
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:59:35 +0000
Subject: Version 8, DP16 Tutorial Runthrough
In-Reply-To: <46DB6042-7B30-4E6E-972D-25EF158C66C1@earthednet.org>
References: <E16D72EB-2A0C-421D-BB44-F3FB0918577A@earthednet.org>
	<CAJR0Q1gUdMP2MPCddm5u9tiFb01JpuY=xQ8h2pUj2hi7iR-EFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<46DB6042-7B30-4E6E-972D-25EF158C66C1@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <9543A584-0ECE-40CF-A399-3611043CA6E3@byu.edu>


> On Mar 17, 2016, at 6:12 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Ali:
> That?s true. I had the Property Labels set to ?Description?. I actually never set it, but it was that way from earlier versions, probably. 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Mar 17, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think some of your issues may be because you have the property inspector
>> set to Property Labels -> Name of LiveCode property rather than Description
>> of Option. I'll add a bug report to make sure the latter option is selected
>> during the tutorial.

It seems like the tutorial should use whatever the default setting is, and IIRC that is the Description of Option. Is that right? At any rate, it?s unlikely that a newbie going through this tutorial will not have changed any of the IDE property settings yet.

My .02 of a currency unit.

Devin


Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Mar 18 15:05:31 2016
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 19:05:31 +0000
Subject: Version 8, DP16 Tutorial Runthrough
In-Reply-To: <9543A584-0ECE-40CF-A399-3611043CA6E3@byu.edu>
References: <E16D72EB-2A0C-421D-BB44-F3FB0918577A@earthednet.org>
	<CAJR0Q1gUdMP2MPCddm5u9tiFb01JpuY=xQ8h2pUj2hi7iR-EFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<46DB6042-7B30-4E6E-972D-25EF158C66C1@earthednet.org>
	<9543A584-0ECE-40CF-A399-3611043CA6E3@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <3FCC0219-CDC5-4C54-9C83-6CE2FD8EA3D6@byu.edu>


> On Mar 18, 2016, at 12:59 PM, Devin Asay <devin_asay at byu.edu> wrote:
> 
> It seems like the tutorial should use whatever the default setting is, and IIRC that is the Description of Option. Is that right? At any rate, it?s unlikely that a newbie going through this tutorial will not have changed any of the IDE property settings yet.

Of course that should read ?it?s unlikely that a newbie going through this tutorial will have changed any of the IDE property settings yet.? 


Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar 18 14:42:26 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <E740C150-C4DB-497D-BE1C-36060FA708B7@earthednet.org>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
	<1458274656150-4702329.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<51B45CC2-8807-4DD3-A5FB-F3AB93347177@earthednet.org>
	<EE5A0CBD-280B-4737-A1C6-725FC1563038@appisle.net>
	<1458284726650-4702332.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<E740C150-C4DB-497D-BE1C-36060FA708B7@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <1458326546682-4702354.post@n4.nabble.com>

William,

meanwhile I tested this in depth and must say that you are
right with that: The formattedWidth and formattedHeight don't
show the exact boundaries, as you wish.

But from my knowledge of TeX I know, that this isn't obtainable
for fonts that don't have an extremely optimized metric. This
isn't even solvable by "pure" typesetting engines (nor by LC).

The formattedWidth is meanwhile pretty good measured.
[It has some problems with extreme slanted fonts.
That's the problem of non-perfect text-metric of the fonts.]

The formattedHeight is *better than ever*, but has still some
problems with interline-spacing at top or at end of strings.

So, with the final version of script you probably have to wait
for stable 8.0.0 (or 8.0.1) -- there is too much "in motion"
with the new "text engine". Peter certainly could say more here.

Perhaps you should report this as bug, so that they know
there are, despite their improvements, still problems?

We should use for demos of these problems, to be fair with respect
to font-metrics, a high-quality otf/ttf-font (for example "Skia").

Hermann

p.s. I was some time ago preparing a stack for the Raspi-stacks
collection that shows the exact boundary box of the
"outer opaque region" of a transparent object. I'll expand it now to
test also the formattedHeight and formattedWidth of a text-display.



Wprothero wrote
> Is this a bug? Shouldn?t the formattedHeight and formattedWidth show the
> text? I?m content to use my margins adjustment, but hope it doesn?t need
> to be revisited in the future. If so, it?s a small thing, but...





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problems-creating-a-field-in-LC8-DP16-tp4702326p4702354.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Mar 18 15:56:18 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:56:18 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
	<56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>
	<1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56EC5D62.1020808@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/18/2016 07:24 AM, -hh wrote:
> Salut Rolf and Peter,
>
> I prefer also the "old" stack (of Elanor?), so I use on LC 8 the
> following, what is at least 10 times faster than 'livecodeshare'.
>
> on mouseUp
>    put specialFolderPath("engine") into p
>    set itemdel to slash
>    put "Tools/Toolset/palettes/revonline.rev" into last item of p
>    set itemdel to comma
>    palette stack p
> end mouseUp
>
> The stack looks really good in LC 8 with native theme ;-)

Interesting. That's *so* much nicer than the web page. Still some 
problems with that stack, as in the scrollbar doesn't seem to work and 
sometimes the page selectors don't show anything, etc.

...and I notice that it's no longer possible to upload stacks to 
revOnline/LiveCodeShare :( "Share This Stack" is no longer on the LC8 
menu). Bug 17176 filed.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 16:26:15 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:26:15 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC5D62.1020808@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56EC5D62.1020808@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56EC6467.4000905@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
 > On 03/18/2016 07:24 AM, -hh wrote:
 >> Salut Rolf and Peter,
 >>
 >> I prefer also the "old" stack (of Elanor?), so I use on LC 8 the
 >> following, what is at least 10 times faster than 'livecodeshare'.
 >>
 >> on mouseUp
 >>    put specialFolderPath("engine") into p
 >>    set itemdel to slash
 >>    put "Tools/Toolset/palettes/revonline.rev" into last item of p
 >>    set itemdel to comma
 >>    palette stack p
 >> end mouseUp
 >>
 >> The stack looks really good in LC 8 with native theme ;-)
 >
 > Interesting. That's *so* much nicer than the web page. Still some
 > problems with that stack, as in the scrollbar doesn't seem to work
 > and sometimes the page selectors don't show anything, etc.

Curious that it's still in the install but made inaccessible/unusable. 
If it's being deprecated why not just pull it?


 > ...and I notice that it's no longer possible to upload stacks to
 > revOnline/LiveCodeShare :( "Share This Stack" is no longer on the LC8
 > menu). Bug 17176 filed.

Followed.  It'll be interesting to learn the intent with this.

A thing like RevOnline is at once very empowering and very dangerous:

One the one hand LC's ability to download-and-run stack files is 
absolutely awesomely powerful and fun.

But on the other hand that power also means that someone with poor 
manners could upload malware, using the full power of the LiveCode 
language to the downloader's disadvantage.

I pulled stack uploads out of RevNet for that reason long ago (Note for 
HH: I have restore the stack download section, however - thanks again 
for your reminder that it can be useful).

I've experimented with the securityPermissions as a possible solution 
for this (yep, 4W SecureRunner is in RevNet's now-restored Stack Files 
section), but as wonderful as that is for stacks designed to work within 
certain restrictions it breaks anything that expects to have file I/O, 
inter-process abilities, or any other securityPermissions you've turned 
off to test a stack.

It would be ideal if we had a sort of runtime Docker-like way to create 
virtual containers for script execution, where we could virtualize 
things that securityPermissions may disallow in a way that would allow 
the host LiveCode environment to handle as we see fit.  For example, if 
a script wants to read a file we could see which file it wants and allow 
reads from some folders but not others.

I can't imagine anyone having time for something like that, though.

Going the other direction, we could allow unbridled execution of 
downloaded stacks if we can trust the source.  But that would require 
some form of stack signing, which seems as complicated to implement as 
it would be expensive to maintain (imagine the folks at LC Ltd taking on 
the role of Verisign for stack files).


Separate from the question of security is a larger one:

Is a stack repository even something we need/want the core dev team to 
be tasked with maintaining?

R's CRAN, Python's PyPI, Perls CPAN, and others are all maintained by 
the communities of those languages, leaving the core dev teams to keep 
their focus on the scripting engines they produce.

After all, a stack repository is for the community and comprised of 
files made by the community, and maintaining a set of stack files and a 
UI for accessing them is fully within the technical abilities of our 
community.


If it were seen as desirable for the community to take this on, I see at 
least one way it could happen safely without an expensive engine or 
format change, but before we go too far down that road it seems saner to 
first find out what the intentions are with this removal of the UI to 
access RevOnline.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Mar 18 16:50:09 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:50:09 -0500
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
	<56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>
	<1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56EC6A01.8070703@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/18/2016 9:24 AM, -hh wrote:
> I prefer also the "old" stack (of Elanor?), so I use on LC 8 the
> following, what is at least 10 times faster than 'livecodeshare'.
>
> on mouseUp
>    put specialFolderPath("engine") into p
>    set itemdel to slash
>    put "Tools/Toolset/palettes/revonline.rev" into last item of p
>    set itemdel to comma
>    palette stack p
> end mouseUp

It might be easier to just copy it into your user Plugins folder, where 
it would load on every startup.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar 18 16:26:26 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tip of the day
Message-ID: <1458332786499-4702358.post@n4.nabble.com>

Richard G. wrote that as a marginal note. It's worth much more.
*** Tip of the day: In LC's menu choose

Development/Plugins/GoRevNet



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Tip-of-the-day-tp4702358.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Mar 18 17:01:56 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 16:01:56 -0500
Subject: using the SHELL function to GREP a body of text
In-Reply-To: <56EC257E.7090304@livecode.com>
References: <1458314428635-4702346.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EC257E.7090304@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56EC6CC4.9040605@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/18/2016 10:57 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
> Indeed, "Implement an HTML parser using regular expressions" is a
> well-known prank project to suggest for inexperienced developers to
> waste their time on...

I cannot pass up a chance to post the best reply ever written:

<http://stackoverflow.com/a/1732454>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar 18 16:33:12 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:33:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC6A01.8070703@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
	<56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>
	<1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EC6A01.8070703@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1458333192146-4702359.post@n4.nabble.com>

I didn't look into the scripts. There is another stack "revonlinelibrary". 
Is it also needed and then found?


J. Landman Gay wrote
> On 3/18/2016 9:24 AM, -hh wrote:
>> I prefer also the "old" stack (of Elanor?), so I use on LC 8 the
>> following, what is at least 10 times faster than 'livecodeshare'.
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>    put specialFolderPath("engine") into p
>>    set itemdel to slash
>>    put "Tools/Toolset/palettes/revonline.rev" into last item of p
>>    set itemdel to comma
>>    palette stack p
>> end mouseUp
> 
> It might be easier to just copy it into your user Plugins folder, where 
> it would load on every startup.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     

> jacque@

> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list

> use-livecode at .runrev

> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Sample-Stacks-Stack-in-Livecode-8-Gone-tp4702336p4702359.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Mar 18 17:19:21 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 16:19:21 -0500
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <decac5adb08685e9eef586aa0ee95f64@livecode.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com>
	<decac5adb08685e9eef586aa0ee95f64@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56EC70D9.4040303@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/18/2016 4:33 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2016-03-17 23:12, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> This may be a problem. I'm loading an html file from disk. I can't get
>> the widget to work with disk-based files, so I'm using
>> revBrowserOpenCEF. I need to script navigation to various internal
>> links in the file, like "#linkHere".
>
> Can you file a bug with more details so we can take a look.

Yes, I'll do that. I'm not sure if it is one bug or more, I found more 
than one thing that blocked my attempts. I guess I'll just list them out 
and you can tell me if you want separate reports. I suspect they're all 
related though.

>
>> To do that I append the link marker to the file path, which I obtain
>> with revBrowserGet("URL"). The CEF browser works with that, revBrowser
>> doesn't. I've tried several different methods, but can't find a way in
>> the older revBrowser to script navigation to an internal link. How
>> would I do that?
>
> To be fair, I think Peter's suggestion of how to navigate is probably a
> neater one than fiddling with the URL.

You're probably right, but I don't know Javascript.

>
> However, I think it would make sense to ensure you can just copy/paste a
> URL from a normal browser into the widget's URL property and have it do
> the same thing.

That's what I expected to be able to do. It does seem like LC should let 
us navigate within a document without knowing another language.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar 18 17:30:41 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 23:30:41 +0200
Subject: Interactive Tour
Message-ID: <56EC7381.5000001@gmail.com>

Wow! And I love the LEGO chap!

But, unfortunately, if I open a new stack so that I can copy some of the 
stuff during the tour,
the tour stack closes and vanishes.

Xubuntu 64 bit.

Is this a bug, or is this intentional?

Richmond.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Fri Mar 18 17:57:27 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 21:57:27 +0000
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC6467.4000905@fourthworld.com>
References: <56EC5D62.1020808@ahsoftware.net>
	<56EC6467.4000905@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com>

On 18/03/2016 20:26, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Separate from the question of security is a larger one:
>
> Is a stack repository even something we need/want the core dev team to
> be tasked with maintaining?
>
> R's CRAN, Python's PyPI, Perls CPAN, and others are all maintained by
> the communities of those languages, leaving the core dev teams to keep
> their focus on the scripting engines they produce.

As far as I know, we plan to introduce a package management system (with 
all of the capabilities that one might expect, such as version 
management, dependency management, checksums, cryptographic signatures, 
etc. etc.) as part of the delayed Extension Store feature.

It won't be a small or easy job but it's very important that we get it 
right when we do it.  Don't expect anything that you can try out for a 
few months yet.

Of course, if someone else comes up with something first then there's a 
good chance we might adopt and contribute to that, so don't let our 
ideas (there's no code yet!) put you off starting something.

If you do, you will find this to be relevant and useful reading material:

https://medium.com/@sdboyer/so-you-want-to-write-a-package-manager-4ae9c17d9527

                                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Mar 18 18:08:25 2016
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:08:25 -0400
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG_Uazv7+nsb_Ft57xNhgg0vU_UFZ7hAb2OZTJri1iAX_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 9:58 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
wrote:

> Folks:
> My plot routines use fields as labels. Fields are created on the fly, the
> plot image is captured, and the fields are deleted. In LC8 DP16, I find
> that the field heights are messed up. I create the field and put text in it
> using the following function:
>
> I know that fields work differently in version 8, but I thought the
> formattedHeight and formattedWidth should adjust the rect to make all of
> the text visible. This works fine in version 7
>

Bill,

Changes were made to how formattedHeight is calculated in LC 8. There are
issues with figuring out the formattedHeight for some fonts though. See the
comments on this commit:

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3633

I would suggest filing a bug report.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com


From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Fri Mar 18 18:10:52 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:10:52 +0000
Subject: Interactive Tour
In-Reply-To: <56EC7381.5000001@gmail.com>
References: <56EC7381.5000001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1jJgN-3=WjuKYuN=SXuh_Q==oSA+brrkbkMeFnZQPBTEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, the start center does (intentionally) close when you open a stack. But
you can get it back from the Help menu.

Note that most of the IDE functionality is disabled during the tour, so you
won't actually be able to copy stuff to another stack.

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:30 PM RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow! And I love the LEGO chap!
>
> But, unfortunately, if I open a new stack so that I can copy some of the
> stuff during the tour,
> the tour stack closes and vanishes.
>
> Xubuntu 64 bit.
>
> Is this a bug, or is this intentional?
>
> Richmond.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 18:13:14 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:13:14 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com>
References: <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56EC7D7A.4010803@fourthworld.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote:

> On 18/03/2016 20:26, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Separate from the question of security is a larger one:
>>
>> Is a stack repository even something we need/want the core dev team to
>> be tasked with maintaining?
>>
>> R's CRAN, Python's PyPI, Perls CPAN, and others are all maintained by
>> the communities of those languages, leaving the core dev teams to keep
>> their focus on the scripting engines they produce.
>
> As far as I know, we plan to introduce a package management system (with
> all of the capabilities that one might expect, such as version
> management, dependency management, checksums, cryptographic signatures,
> etc. etc.) as part of the delayed Extension Store feature.
>
> It won't be a small or easy job but it's very important that we get it
> right when we do it.  Don't expect anything that you can try out for a
> few months yet.

Excellent.  The security part of that is a hard nut to crack.  The best 
we could do would be to limit access by using a standalone running with 
securityPermissions, which is a faulty way to test many things because 
unless a stack is written with specific securityPermissions in mind it 
just breaks a lot.  :)

Happy to have you folks do it.  And given the challenge of doing it 
well, I don't think anyone will mind waiting.


> Of course, if someone else comes up with something first then there's a
> good chance we might adopt and contribute to that, so don't let our
> ideas (there's no code yet!) put you off starting something.
>
> If you do, you will find this to be relevant and useful reading material:
>
> https://medium.com/@sdboyer/so-you-want-to-write-a-package-manager-4ae9c17d9527

Thanks, but I'm hoping to avoid this:
https://xkcd.com/927/

The Yum/Deb schism has already caused enough gray hairs, and while Snaps 
are IMO a great (if not long overdue) solution to many of the 
limitations of those earlier PMs Canonical's already taking heat for 
making yet-another-package-manager.

I'm happy to leave such controversies to other camps.  If you folks are 
working on a broad-scope package management solution for LC, I'm sure 
it'll be well worth waiting for.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 18:21:19 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:21:19 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com>
References: <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote:

 > As far as I know, we plan to introduce a package management system
 > (with all of the capabilities that one might expect, such as version
 > management, dependency management, checksums, cryptographic
 > signatures, etc. etc.) as part of the delayed Extension Store feature.

One small request if I may:  please oh please don't make it yet another 
Zio-based format.

Cumbersome, and presents truly stand-alone standalones (single-file 
executables with no externals) from being able to use them.

Extra bonus points if it's based on LC's encoded arrays.  Nice format, 
that one, better than BSON IMO.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 18:48:11 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:48:11 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com>
References: <56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56EC85AB.4050405@fourthworld.com>

A bit ago I wrote:
> One small request if I may:  please oh please don't make it yet another
> Zio-based format.

I doubt you'd do that, as Zio-based formats only exist on planets in the 
Star Trek universe.

Of course that's a typo.  I meant "Zip-based".

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From monte at appisle.net  Fri Mar 18 18:49:27 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:49:27 +1100
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com>
References: <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com> <56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D25BE605-2B6A-4EED-8CFC-1F0D6966A204@appisle.net>

Do you mean Zip based? I googled Zio and found nothing. Perhaps it's just me but I expected the package manager to be an IDE thing and the standalone builder to provide options for deployment.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Mar 2016, at 9:21 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> One small request if I may:  please oh please don't make it yet another Zio-based format.
> 
> Cumbersome, and presents truly stand-alone standalones (single-file executables with no externals) from being able to use them.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 18:57:57 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:57:57 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <D25BE605-2B6A-4EED-8CFC-1F0D6966A204@appisle.net>
References: <D25BE605-2B6A-4EED-8CFC-1F0D6966A204@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56EC87F5.3010500@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:
 > Do you mean Zip based? I googled Zio and found nothing.
Yep - see subsequent message.

 > Perhaps it's just me but I expected the package manager to be an IDE
 > thing and the standalone builder to provide options for deployment.

I would imagine so, but ultimately it will produce a file, and sooner or 
later it'll be useful for us to be able to make those files ourselves.

If the SB has an API for that, perhaps the dependency on the IDE 
wouldn't be the end of the world.

But I can imagine value in being able to use a good packaging model for 
all sorts of things, like delivering updates to users of my workgoup 
tools.  There are probably a dozen use cases I haven't thought of that 
others are likely to come up with shortly after a good package format 
becomes available.

If the packager is a library and the packages are encoded arrays, all 
sorts of things become very possible very easily.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From monte at appisle.net  Fri Mar 18 19:19:50 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 10:19:50 +1100
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC87F5.3010500@fourthworld.com>
References: <D25BE605-2B6A-4EED-8CFC-1F0D6966A204@appisle.net>
	<56EC87F5.3010500@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5202E928-7E04-4E2D-8942-9BBEA2C978D8@appisle.net>

So the argument against a Zip based format is mainly the fact that zip support is via an external? The compressed arrayEncode format would still need somewhere to save it as a file. The biggest issue I can see with it is non-LiveCode engine based build tools will be more complicated to implement.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Mar 2016, at 9:57 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> If the packager is a library and the packages are encoded arrays, all sorts of things become very possible very easily.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 18 19:53:13 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 16:53:13 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <5202E928-7E04-4E2D-8942-9BBEA2C978D8@appisle.net>
References: <5202E928-7E04-4E2D-8942-9BBEA2C978D8@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56EC94E9.7080705@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:
 > So the argument against a Zip based format is mainly the fact that
 > zip support is via an external?

Not entirely, but yes, the cumbersome calls needed to work with Zip and 
the next to drag the revZip externals around are a part of it.


 > The compressed arrayEncode format would still need somewhere to save
 > it as a file.

Of course.  It's a data file.  We expect to move data files around.  But 
I ship a lot of apps as a single file, and if this packaging is as 
useful as I'd like to imagine it will be I'd love to use it with my 
truly-stand-alone standalones.


 > The biggest issue I can see with it is non-LiveCode
 > engine based build tools will be more complicated to implement.

Exactly. LC's arrays are beautiful, flexible, and fast.

LibreOffice, ePub, and others use Zip because they need to consider 
interoperability and Zip libs are common.  Here we have no such 
encumbrance, just LiveCode doing LiveCode, so I'm hoping we can enjoy 
something engine-based.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From prothero at earthednet.org  Fri Mar 18 21:24:43 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:24:43 -0700
Subject: Problems creating a field in LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG_Uazv7+nsb_Ft57xNhgg0vU_UFZ7hAb2OZTJri1iAX_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EDD38573-D262-4D8A-841C-2BB527BD3D76@earthednet.org>
	<CAHg3tG_Uazv7+nsb_Ft57xNhgg0vU_UFZ7hAb2OZTJri1iAX_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59B09318-BD72-45A8-AB12-D46AE135D8B1@earthednet.org>

Trevor:
Thanks. I reported it, with a sample stack.
Best,
Bill

William Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
prothero at earthednet.org



> On Mar 18, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 9:58 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Folks:
>> My plot routines use fields as labels. Fields are created on the fly, the
>> plot image is captured, and the fields are deleted. In LC8 DP16, I find
>> that the field heights are messed up. I create the field and put text in it
>> using the following function:
>> 
>> I know that fields work differently in version 8, but I thought the
>> formattedHeight and formattedWidth should adjust the rect to make all of
>> the text visible. This works fine in version 7
>> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> Changes were made to how formattedHeight is calculated in LC 8. There are
> issues with figuring out the formattedHeight for some fonts though. See the
> comments on this commit:
> 
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3633
> 
> I would suggest filing a bug report.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tfabacher at gmail.com  Fri Mar 18 22:56:24 2016
From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:56:24 -0400
Subject: Finally made it into the App Store..
Message-ID: <CACjPeORdXc1-YxrR4c9SsSdpVoMOn=jbHKOQ2wR2jQjNjvcZRA@mail.gmail.com>

We are going to open source the app and all the 16 language games soon. If
you are interested in seeing what are the possibilities with LiveCode check
out the iPad App:

https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=1065372259&mt=8

There is also an Android and desktop versions available on our website:
www.playlandarmenia.com The good news also is we already have 1000
registrations in the first week.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

--Todd from Digital Pomegranate


From james at thehales.id.au  Fri Mar 18 22:31:37 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 19:31:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using the SHELL function to GREP a body of text
In-Reply-To: <56EC6CC4.9040605@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1458314428635-4702346.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EC257E.7090304@livecode.com>
	<56EC6CC4.9040605@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1458354697835-4702375.post@n4.nabble.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote
> I cannot pass up a chance to post the best reply ever written:
> 
> &lt;http://stackoverflow.com/a/1732454&gt;

Very good. 





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/using-the-SHELL-function-to-GREP-a-body-of-text-tp4702346p4702375.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Mar 19 00:08:36 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 23:08:36 -0500
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/18/2016 2:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Have you tried opening the page in a browser widget, and then using the
> new "do _ in _" syntax to run some JS in the widget that sets
> "window.location.hash"?
>
> If that's not clear I can try and find the time to put together a full
> example for you...

That'd be great, especially since I don't know any JS, but I've entered 
a bug report so you can stall for a while if you want. If the issue is 
addressed I won't need the JS. For now my project is still in LC 7 where 
I can use the CEF browser.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sat Mar 19 03:23:25 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 07:23:25 +0000
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com>
References: <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com> <56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56ECFE6D.3000203@livecode.com>

On 18/03/2016 22:21, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
>  > As far as I know, we plan to introduce a package management system
>  > (with all of the capabilities that one might expect, such as version
>  > management, dependency management, checksums, cryptographic
>  > signatures, etc. etc.) as part of the delayed Extension Store feature.
>
> One small request if I may:  please oh please don't make it yet another
> Zio-based format.

Yes, it's almost 100% guaranteed to be a ZIP-based format.

                                   Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From hh at livecode.org  Sat Mar 19 05:08:22 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 02:08:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56ECFE6D.3000203@livecode.com>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
	<56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>
	<1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EC5D62.1020808@ahsoftware.net>
	<56EC6467.4000905@fourthworld.com> <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com>
	<56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com> <56ECFE6D.3000203@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1458378502603-4702378.post@n4.nabble.com>

This has become a theoretical issue about crossing bridges
that we may never reach, projects of 2019-2021?

RevOnline (the stack) was a nice tool, not really updated.

Obviously and sadly it seems to be in the waiting room for the
virtual trash, replaced by a slow website, although there are
currently not thousands of files to organize but < 500.
Nobody has time to optimize that.

Life is short, we need NOW a solution.

> R.G. wrote:
> After all, a stack repository is for the community and comprised
> of files made by the community, and maintaining a set of stack
> files and a UI for accessing them is fully within the technical
> abilities of our  community.
> If it were seen as desirable for the community to take this on, I
> see at least one way it could happen safely without an expensive
> engine or format change.

So please simply choose one way and start as soon as possible.
Take the lead. I am willing to help and to contribute, also with
some time for organizing if needed.
Moreover I could mirror the site here in EU (no LC server, LC
server yes in US at on-rev), so that we have 'nearest places'
for download.

To take only the forum and the use-list: There are > 1000
stacks and scripts that could go unchanged, only attached with
indexing tags, into that collection.

I don't think this would touch the packaging of the delayed
Extension Store feature. To the contrary, we could have a
category 'previews' where extension builder people could
provide demos/"lite" versions and link to LC's Extension Store.

Hermann



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Sample-Stacks-Stack-in-Livecode-8-Gone-tp4702336p4702378.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar 19 09:17:41 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 06:17:41 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56ECFE6D.3000203@livecode.com>
References: <56ECFE6D.3000203@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56ED5175.7000309@fourthworld.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote:

 > On 18/03/2016 22:21, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >> Peter TB Brett wrote:
 >>
 >>  > As far as I know, we plan to introduce a package management system
 >>  > (with all of the capabilities that one might expect, such as
 >>  > version management, dependency management, checksums,
 >>  >cryptographic signatures, etc. etc.) as part of the delayed
 >>  > Extension Store feature.
 >>
 >> One small request if I may:  please oh please don't make it yet
 >> another Zio-based format.
 >
 > Yes, it's almost 100% guaranteed to be a ZIP-based format.

Well at least it's not Zio-based. :)

What are the advantages of Zip for this?

I'm assuming there will be an API kinda like apt-get to manage updates 
in addition to the UI the IDE GUI provides, yes?

Will the library that drives it also be available as an option for 
standalones?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar 19 10:10:05 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 07:10:05 -0700
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <1458378502603-4702378.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458378502603-4702378.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56ED5DBD.20305@fourthworld.com>

Hermann wrote:

> This has become a theoretical issue about crossing bridges
> that we may never reach, projects of 2019-2021?

In my reading I see very much the opposite - here's what Peter wrote:

     As far as I know, we plan to introduce a package management
     system (with all of the capabilities that one might expect,
     such as version management, dependency management, checksums,
     cryptographic signatures, etc. etc.) as part of the delayed
     Extension Store feature.

     It won't be a small or easy job but it's very important that
     we get it right when we do it.  Don't expect anything that
     you can try out for a few months yet.

Given the 50 years of ACM literature on how software development almost 
always falls behind schedule for unanticipatable reasons, I can 
appreciate the temptation to read "a few months" as "a few years".

But on this one I'm more optimistic, for a couple reasons:

1. They've designed much of the Widget architecture knowing
    that packaging would be a critical part of it, so at least
    big chunks of the hardest part - design - have already
    been done.

2. They need this perhaps more than anything else in the queue.
    The company is heavily invested in Widgets as a solution for
    a wide range of development needs.  Without a packager there's
    no way to reliably trade Widgets.  Without a packager there's
    no Widget Store.  This is among the most critical must-haves
    on their to-do list.  It will get done, because so much of
    everything beyond it depends on it.


> RevOnline (the stack) was a nice tool, not really updated.
>
> Obviously and sadly it seems to be in the waiting room for the
> virtual trash, replaced by a slow website, although there are
> currently not thousands of files to organize but < 500.
> Nobody has time to optimize that.
>
> Life is short, we need NOW a solution.

It would seem simplest and less disruptive to simply leave RevOnline in 
place until its replacement is ready.  There may be reasons why it 
isn't.  It would be useful to find out what those reasons are before 
judging the merit of that decision.


>> R.G. wrote:
>> After all, a stack repository is for the community and comprised
>> of files made by the community, and maintaining a set of stack
>> files and a UI for accessing them is fully within the technical
>> abilities of our  community.
>> If it were seen as desirable for the community to take this on, I
>> see at least one way it could happen safely without an expensive
>> engine or format change.
>
> So please simply choose one way and start as soon as possible.

For myself, the decision is easy and I've made it, as I wrote in reply 
to Peter yesterday:

    Happy to have you folks do it.  And given the challenge of
    doing it well, I don't think anyone will mind waiting.

Some background on why I'm so easily persuaded on this:

Many years ago Ken Ray headed up a project that included contributions 
from more than a dozen other community members to draft a specification 
for plugins and other components to define metadata needed for updating:
http://livecodejournal.com/downloads/rip/ECMI_10.rtf.zip

In many ways it was a good draft, and more than a few plugin developers 
have adopted at least part of the ECMI spec at one time or another over 
the years.

But as thorough as it was it only touched on a subset of needs, and 
ultimately there needed to be a tool to work with that metadata for easy 
installation - so then Ken worked with the community to make DropTools:
http://droptools.sonsothunder.com/index.irev

That took things even further, but as nice as it was it really only 
reflects the state of componentry in LiveCode at a particular time in 
the past.

Today's Widgets take extensibility in LiveCode in a bold new direction, 
with a spec far more complete than any other could possibly be without 
engine enhancements.

Let's take a second look at Peter's description of their packager goals:

    - version management
    - dependency management
    - checksums
    - cryptographic signatures
    - etc. etc.

Even the best community efforts to date, the ECMI spec and DropTools, 
could only address the first two on that list.  For checksums and 
signatures to be meaningful they need enforcement beyond the reach of 
scripts - after all, if a script is responsible for managing those the 
script can be altered by malware to grant trust to untrusted packages.

So we had ECMI/DropTools, and now the core dev team is working on a far 
more complete packaging spec and toolkit.

We could choose to draft a third, but we risk this:
https://xkcd.com/927/

At the moment we know they're actively working on it, and that they 
intend to release in a time frame of "a few months".  And we also know 
that they need it perhaps more than anyone else.

So rather than draft a third spec which is likely to be obsolete within 
months and certain to be obsolete sooner or later even if the "a few 
months" gets stretched a bit, I'd rather let them handle it and just 
focus on my own stuff.

But that's just me.  If you can get support from other devs to use a 
third interim spec go for it.


> Moreover I could mirror the site here in EU (no LC server, LC
> server yes in US at on-rev), so that we have 'nearest places'
> for download.
>
> To take only the forum and the use-list: There are > 1000
> stacks and scripts that could go unchanged, only attached with
> indexing tags, into that collection.
>
> I don't think this would touch the packaging of the delayed
> Extension Store feature. To the contrary, we could have a
> category 'previews' where extension builder people could
> provide demos/"lite" versions and link to LC's Extension Store.

For the long term I believe the best solution is the one currently in 
development by the core team.

For the short term I believe the best solution *might* be to put 
RevOnline back in place as it's been for years.  But I say "might" 
because I don't know the reasoning behind it, and "why" is always 
critically important to learn when questioning a "what".

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From hh at livecode.org  Sat Mar 19 12:35:48 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:35:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56ED5DBD.20305@fourthworld.com>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
	<56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>
	<1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EC5D62.1020808@ahsoftware.net>
	<56EC6467.4000905@fourthworld.com> <56EC79C7.6050401@livecode.com>
	<56EC7F5F.8000905@fourthworld.com> <56ECFE6D.3000203@livecode.com>
	<1458378502603-4702378.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56ED5DBD.20305@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1458405348895-4702381.post@n4.nabble.com>

> Richard G. wrote:
> For the short term I believe the best solution *might* be to put 
> RevOnline back in place as it's been for years. But I say "might" 
> because I don't know the reasoning behind it, and "why" is always 
> critically important to learn when questioning a "what".

Yes, agreed, of course. But:
We won't hear the "why", the discussion about revOnline is now
essentially two years old. And there was also no single word to
that in the current discussion.

I suspect that we are going to have "Little iTunes" in Edinburgh.
All the best for that!




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Sample-Stacks-Stack-in-Livecode-8-Gone-tp4702336p4702381.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 19 14:50:32 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 20:50:32 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
Message-ID: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785

Please have a look at this, think about it, and
if you think it is a good idea say so: loudly, so the LiveCode
people take it seriously.

Richmond.



From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk  Sat Mar 19 14:52:44 2016
From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 18:52:44 +0000
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W84DC9A53B25DFC26ACDDE7ED8D0@phx.gbl>

Not a good idea... it means another palette floating about obscuring things..


> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com
> Subject: Separate Widget palette
> Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 20:50:32 +0200
> 
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785
> 
> Please have a look at this, think about it, and
> if you think it is a good idea say so: loudly, so the LiveCode
> people take it seriously.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 		 	   		  

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 19 14:59:09 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 20:59:09 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W84DC9A53B25DFC26ACDDE7ED8D0@phx.gbl>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<DUB114-W84DC9A53B25DFC26ACDDE7ED8D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <56EDA17D.9000305@gmail.com>

Well, it is only going to be floating around if, when it opens, it isn't 
anchored, say, top-right.

Richmond.

On 19.03.2016 20:52, John Dixon wrote:
> Not a good idea... it means another palette floating about obscuring things..
>
>
>> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com
>> Subject: Separate Widget palette
>> Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 20:50:32 +0200
>>
>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785
>>
>> Please have a look at this, think about it, and
>> if you think it is a good idea say so: loudly, so the LiveCode
>> people take it seriously.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>   		 	   		
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Mar 19 15:01:04 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 14:01:04 -0500
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <1458333192146-4702359.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch>
	<56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com>
	<1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EC6A01.8070703@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1458333192146-4702359.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56EDA1F0.6070107@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm not sure, I didn't try it. You could start without it and if it 
doesn't work, move the library too.

On 3/18/2016 3:33 PM, -hh wrote:
> I didn't look into the scripts. There is another stack "revonlinelibrary".
> Is it also needed and then found?
>
>
> J. Landman Gay wrote
>> On 3/18/2016 9:24 AM, -hh wrote:
>>> I prefer also the "old" stack (of Elanor?), so I use on LC 8 the
>>> following, what is at least 10 times faster than 'livecodeshare'.
>>>
>>> on mouseUp
>>>     put specialFolderPath("engine") into p
>>>     set itemdel to slash
>>>     put "Tools/Toolset/palettes/revonline.rev" into last item of p
>>>     set itemdel to comma
>>>     palette stack p
>>> end mouseUp
>>
>> It might be easier to just copy it into your user Plugins folder, where
>> it would load on every startup.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar 19 16:46:30 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 13:46:30 -0700
Subject: long press and force touch
Message-ID: <56EDBAA6.4070201@fourthworld.com>

What is the recommended way to detect a long-press on mobile platforms?

Do we have a message for that yet, or do we have to track it manually?

If the latter, anyone here know if there's a request for a longPress 
message in the RQCC?

Also, is iOS' force touch supported yet?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk  Sat Mar 19 16:49:46 2016
From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 20:49:46 +0000
Subject: long press and force touch
In-Reply-To: <56EDBAA6.4070201@fourthworld.com>
References: <56EDBAA6.4070201@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W18B239587226293DD9CD3EED8D0@phx.gbl>


mouseStillDown works on mobile...
iOS force touch is not supported... (sigh)


> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> From: ambassador at fourthworld.com
> Subject: long press and force touch
> Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 13:46:30 -0700
> 
> What is the recommended way to detect a long-press on mobile platforms?
> 
> Do we have a message for that yet, or do we have to track it manually?
> 
> If the latter, anyone here know if there's a request for a longPress 
> message in the RQCC?
> 
> Also, is iOS' force touch supported yet?
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 		 	   		  

From monte at appisle.net  Sat Mar 19 16:52:30 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 07:52:30 +1100
Subject: long press and force touch
In-Reply-To: <56EDBAA6.4070201@fourthworld.com>
References: <56EDBAA6.4070201@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <386840B2-2220-430B-B8EE-901F3BBB6A11@appisle.net>

Long press is 300 milliseconds with still no touchUp with the same ID as the touchDown. Force touch is not supported yet.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 Mar 2016, at 7:46 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> What is the recommended way to detect a long-press on mobile platforms?
> 
> Do we have a message for that yet, or do we have to track it manually?
> 
> If the latter, anyone here know if there's a request for a longPress message in the RQCC?
> 
> Also, is iOS' force touch supported yet?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From monte at appisle.net  Sat Mar 19 18:00:08 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 09:00:08 +1100
Subject: long press and force touch
In-Reply-To: <386840B2-2220-430B-B8EE-901F3BBB6A11@appisle.net>
References: <56EDBAA6.4070201@fourthworld.com>
	<386840B2-2220-430B-B8EE-901F3BBB6A11@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <772D4BC3-BDFC-4709-BB21-D2AF4BA463A9@appisle.net>


> On 20 Mar 2016, at 7:52 AM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
> 
> Force touch is not supported yet.

This doesn?t look overly complicated to add as a parameter to the touch messages. Has anyone put a feature request in? It could be good low hanging fruit for a community contribution.

Cheers

Monte

From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 19 18:11:03 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:11:03 +0000
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Jacque: You want to navigate down the pages? Perhaps i am missing something re your requirements

Assuming the pages are marked up with targets e.g

<a id="brahma">&nbsp;</a>

This has significant utility for us also moving forward.

At least delivered from a server:

http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/monastery/meet-the-monks#brahma

This works in a browser widget in LC 8 DP16 (presumably not CEF since I am on Macbook Pro)

and it also works if i save the page locally and drop this in a browser

file:///Users/Brahmanathaswami/Downloads/test%20local/Kauai's%20Hindu%20Monastery%20-%20Meet%20the%20Monks.html#brahma

Oh.. wait.. if I paste that URL in to the widget it goes bonkers.. to be more precise presents a small rect about 40x tall and 150 px wide with scroll bars.

Is that the bug you are seeing?

On March 18, 2016 at 6:08:53 PM, J. Landman Gay (jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>) wrote:

That'd be great, especially since I don't know any JS, but I've entered
a bug report so you can stall for a while if you want. If the issue is
addressed I won't need the JS. For now my project is still in LC 7 where
I can use the CEF browser.

From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sat Mar 19 19:43:05 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:43:05 +0100
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-19 19:50, RM wrote:
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785
> 
> Please have a look at this, think about it, and
> if you think it is a good idea say so: loudly, so the LiveCode
> people take it seriously.

As I understand the current design concept for the LiveCode 8 IDE, the 
decision not to have a separate Widgets palette was taken quite 
deliberately, on the basis that there are already altogether too many 
palettes.

Instead, I believe the tools palette is planned to evolve to allow users 
to configure what items are shown and how they are arranged.  I think 
someone at some point mentioned the idea of having collapsible sections.

                                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat Mar 19 21:35:26 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 21:35:26 -0400
Subject: long press and force touch
In-Reply-To: <772D4BC3-BDFC-4709-BB21-D2AF4BA463A9@appisle.net>
References: <56EDBAA6.4070201@fourthworld.com>
	<386840B2-2220-430B-B8EE-901F3BBB6A11@appisle.net>
	<772D4BC3-BDFC-4709-BB21-D2AF4BA463A9@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <CADCoycOno5VstzmYYaDkHGY0Qh5PkSDtbdRb=XyM9eJercZADA@mail.gmail.com>

17185

On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:

>
> > On 20 Mar 2016, at 7:52 AM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
> >
> > Force touch is not supported yet.
>
> This doesn?t look overly complicated to add as a parameter to the touch
> messages. Has anyone put a feature request in? It could be good low hanging
> fruit for a community contribution.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat Mar 19 21:38:24 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 21:38:24 -0400
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycN5W2EXZRwEb1X6dw8ykRJ7PBm2awVcAov+HXzWak+bmw@mail.gmail.com>

If I was voting, I would vote for a pop-out menu, perhaps - so you would
have a widget button in the palette with a right-facing triangle which pops
out the widgets.  Alternatively, you could right-click on a widget button
in the tools palette to show the widgets list

On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
wrote:

> On 2016-03-19 19:50, RM wrote:
>
>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785
>>
>> Please have a look at this, think about it, and
>> if you think it is a good idea say so: loudly, so the LiveCode
>> people take it seriously.
>>
>
> As I understand the current design concept for the LiveCode 8 IDE, the
> decision not to have a separate Widgets palette was taken quite
> deliberately, on the basis that there are already altogether too many
> palettes.
>
> Instead, I believe the tools palette is planned to evolve to allow users
> to configure what items are shown and how they are arranged.  I think
> someone at some point mentioned the idea of having collapsible sections.
>
>                                         Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 19 23:27:00 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 03:27:00 +0000
Subject: auto show inspector from project browser
Message-ID: <etPan.56ee1883.5639bf58.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Seems there is no easy way to pop open the inspector for an object in the project browser.. you have to control-click then get the contextual menu and then click "Property Inspector"

What am I missing... must be more direct-to--inspector method, why not have a button to open the inspector on the right, like you have the

4 (lines of script) eye (show-hide) Lock )(tool tip says "hide" also)

add another one for "i"inspector

BR



From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 19 23:59:03 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 03:59:03 +0000
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
Message-ID: <etPan.56ee2006.4c255246.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Am I the only one who ever wished you could open card 3 and card 10 at the same time? side by side, like a split screen in a text/code editor?

having the PB open to one card "A" and the actual stack open to card B  works pretty well, but some not so well.

BR





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 00:14:30 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 23:14:30 -0500
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/19/2016 5:11 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> At least delivered from a server:
>
> http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/monastery/meet-the-monks#brahma
>
> This works in a browser widget in LC 8 DP16 (presumably not CEF since
> I am on Macbook Pro)

I wasn't using a widget, I was loading a local file in revBrowser. I 
couldn't get the widget to work.

>
> and it also works if i save the page locally and drop this in a
> browser
>
> file:///Users/Brahmanathaswami/Downloads/test%20local/Kauai's%20Hindu%20Monastery%20-%20Meet%20the%20Monks.html#brahma
>
>  Oh.. wait.. if I paste that URL in to the widget it goes bonkers..
> to be more precise presents a small rect about 40x tall and 150 px
> wide with scroll bars.
>
> Is that the bug you are seeing?

Not exactly. I tried a similar file path when I was testing a widget but 
it wouldn't load at all, nothing happened. I just now realized that the 
file path has spaces in it. If I remove those (or encode them) it does 
load, so the widget works after all. Then I pasted the file path (with 
hashtag) into the inspector and that worked too. I didn't see the 
problem you described, the widget keeps its original size. Looks like I 
do have an option, thanks for that.

The bug report that explains my issues with revBrowser is here:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17179

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dunbarx at aol.com  Sun Mar 20 00:51:20 2016
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:51:20 -0400
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycN5W2EXZRwEb1X6dw8ykRJ7PBm2awVcAov+HXzWak+bmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <153925cfa7a-2b29-498a@webprd-m01.mail.aol.com>

Why not go the way of the new properties inspector? Make a widgets pane and a 'normal" tool pane. Same real estate, same palette.


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2016 9:39 pm
Subject: Re: Separate Widget palette

If I was voting, I would vote for a pop-out menu, perhaps - so you would
have a widget button in the palette with a right-facing triangle which pops
out the widgets.  Alternatively, you could right-click on a widget button
in the tools palette to show the widgets list

On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
wrote:

> On 2016-03-19 19:50, RM wrote:
>
>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785
>>
>> Please have a look at this, think about it, and
>> if you think it is a good idea say so: loudly, so the LiveCode
>> people take it seriously.
>>
>
> As I understand the current design concept for the LiveCode 8 IDE, the
> decision not to have a separate Widgets palette was taken quite
> deliberately, on the basis that there are already altogether too many
> palettes.
>
> Instead, I believe the tools palette is planned to evolve to allow users
> to configure what items are shown and how they are arranged.  I think
> someone at some point mentioned the idea of having collapsible sections.
>
>                   Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dunbarx at aol.com  Sun Mar 20 00:59:20 2016
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:59:20 -0400
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56ee2006.4c255246.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56ee2006.4c255246.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <15392644c9d-2b29-499a@webprd-m01.mail.aol.com>

Hi.


Since 1987, this has been the structure of what a stack and a card really are. There is only one card window object in a stack, and a "stack" is simply a collection of cards, each viewed uniquely.


What I mean is: Can't be done.


You have to think of another stack, or a substack, as the right way through this. The process is not onerous to create or manage, and in fact opens enormous power to you. Not the least of these being the ability to make that "second card" a different size, or a different style, like a palette.


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org>
To: How LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2016 11:59 pm
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side

Am I the only one who ever wished you could open card 3 and card 10 at the same time? side by side, like a split screen in a text/code editor?

having the PB open to one card "A" and the actual stack open to card B  works pretty well, but some not so well.

BR




_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 01:37:35 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:37:35 -0500
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <153925cfa7a-2b29-498a@webprd-m01.mail.aol.com>
References: <153925cfa7a-2b29-498a@webprd-m01.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <56EE371F.3050304@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/19/2016 11:51 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote:
> Why not go the way of the new properties inspector? Make a widgets
> pane and a 'normal" tool pane. Same real estate, same palette.

I like that idea. Keeps the clutter at bay.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 01:43:35 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:43:35 -0500
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EE3887.10709@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/19/2016 5:11 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>   Oh.. wait.. if I paste that URL in to the widget it goes bonkers..
> to be more precise presents a small rect about 40x tall and 150 px
> wide with scroll bars.
>
> Is that the bug you are seeing?

I just saw it. I had a widget sized correctly. Then any change I made in 
the property inspector caused it to expand wider and shift to the left. 
It acts like it forgets its dimensions. If I choose the edit tool, it 
goes back to the right size. Switching to the browse tool makes it wider 
again. Since you got a very small rectangle, it sounds like its choosing 
some random dimension.

I'll report it if I can get a recipe. It doesn't always happen.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From monte at appisle.net  Sun Mar 20 01:23:59 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:23:59 +1100
Subject: long press and force touch
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOno5VstzmYYaDkHGY0Qh5PkSDtbdRb=XyM9eJercZADA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56EDBAA6.4070201@fourthworld.com>
	<386840B2-2220-430B-B8EE-901F3BBB6A11@appisle.net>
	<772D4BC3-BDFC-4709-BB21-D2AF4BA463A9@appisle.net>
	<CADCoycOno5VstzmYYaDkHGY0Qh5PkSDtbdRb=XyM9eJercZADA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B394804-949A-492B-8DCB-E965CF7124F8@appisle.net>

It turns out you can get the touch pressure on Android also.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 Mar 2016, at 12:35 PM, Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> 
> 17185
> 
>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 20 Mar 2016, at 7:52 AM, Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Force touch is not supported yet.
>> 
>> This doesn?t look overly complicated to add as a parameter to the touch
>> messages. Has anyone put a feature request in? It could be good low hanging
>> fruit for a community contribution.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Monte
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 02:09:56 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 01:09:56 -0500
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EE3887.10709@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com> <56EE3887.10709@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EE3EB4.1080002@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/20/2016 12:43 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/19/2016 5:11 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>>   Oh.. wait.. if I paste that URL in to the widget it goes bonkers..
>> to be more precise presents a small rect about 40x tall and 150 px
>> wide with scroll bars.
>>
>> Is that the bug you are seeing?
>
> I just saw it. I had a widget sized correctly. Then any change I made in
> the property inspector caused it to expand wider and shift to the left.
> It acts like it forgets its dimensions. If I choose the edit tool, it
> goes back to the right size. Switching to the browse tool makes it wider
> again. Since you got a very small rectangle, it sounds like its choosing
> some random dimension.
>
> I'll report it if I can get a recipe. It doesn't always happen.
>

Let's wait for the next build, I think the problem is related to this:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17138

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 02:38:26 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 07:38:26 +0100
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56EE371F.3050304@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <153925cfa7a-2b29-498a@webprd-m01.mail.aol.com>
	<56EE371F.3050304@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1Q0g-w_NdrKKTcgycH=oBFYOGMDpLNZ5X=nL3cU-npZJsCmA@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/19/2016 11:51 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote:

> Why not go the way of the new properties inspector? Make a widgets
> pane and a 'normal" tool pane. Same real estate, same palette.


It seems to me to be the logical way. There could be more than just one
widget pane, more tabs, grouped by whatever criteria I thought about it
independently, and I guess many people did.



Roland Huettmann
Parkettistrasse 3 / P.O.Box 28
6374 Buochs, NW / Switzerland

Phone: +41 79 901 82 58
Fax: +41 41 624 66 69
Skype: babanin


On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 6:37 AM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:

> On 3/19/2016 11:51 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Why not go the way of the new properties inspector? Make a widgets
>> pane and a 'normal" tool pane. Same real estate, same palette.
>>
>
> I like that idea. Keeps the clutter at bay.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 04:03:50 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 10:03:50 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>

Aha.

Well, how about having the widget section at the bottom of the revTools 
palette rather than above
the section that is most likely to be used the most often?

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 01:43, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 2016-03-19 19:50, RM wrote:
>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785
>>
>> Please have a look at this, think about it, and
>> if you think it is a good idea say so: loudly, so the LiveCode
>> people take it seriously.
>
> As I understand the current design concept for the LiveCode 8 IDE, the 
> decision not to have a separate Widgets palette was taken quite 
> deliberately, on the basis that there are already altogether too many 
> palettes.
>
> Instead, I believe the tools palette is planned to evolve to allow 
> users to configure what items are shown and how they are arranged.  I 
> think someone at some point mentioned the idea of having collapsible 
> sections.
>
>                                         Peter
>




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sun Mar 20 04:34:55 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 08:34:55 +0000
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EE60AF.9070602@livecode.com>

On 20/03/2016 04:14, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Not exactly. I tried a similar file path when I was testing a widget but
> it wouldn't load at all, nothing happened. I just now realized that the
> file path has spaces in it. If I remove those (or encode them) it does
> load, so the widget works after all. Then I pasted the file path (with
> hashtag) into the inspector and that worked too. I didn't see the
> problem you described, the widget keeps its original size. Looks like I
> do have an option, thanks for that.
>
> The bug report that explains my issues with revBrowser is here:
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17179

Hi Jacqueline,

For reliability I do recommend using an RFC 1738 URL with a browser, 
rather than a "LiveCode-style" file URL.

For example, "file:///Users/peterbrett/My%20File%20Name.doc" rather than 
"file:/Users/peterbrett/My File Name.doc"

Do the problems with the #-component in revBrowser go away if you use an 
RFC 1738 file URL?

                                      Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sun Mar 20 04:36:54 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 08:36:54 +0000
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EE3887.10709@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com> <56EE3887.10709@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EE6126.9030909@livecode.com>



On 20/03/2016 05:43, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/19/2016 5:11 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>>   Oh.. wait.. if I paste that URL in to the widget it goes bonkers..
>> to be more precise presents a small rect about 40x tall and 150 px
>> wide with scroll bars.
>>
>> Is that the bug you are seeing?
>
> I just saw it. I had a widget sized correctly. Then any change I made in
> the property inspector caused it to expand wider and shift to the left.
> It acts like it forgets its dimensions. If I choose the edit tool, it
> goes back to the right size. Switching to the browse tool makes it wider
> again. Since you got a very small rectangle, it sounds like its choosing
> some random dimension.
>
> I'll report it if I can get a recipe. It doesn't always happen.

It sounds like you've run into bug 17138 [1] which already has a fix 
ready to be included in the next build

                                                Peter

[1] http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17138

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 06:56:50 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:56:50 +0100
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all

Something else. I managed to download all my mail from last years in MBOX
format from Gmail. The file size is over 38 GB, and there are more than
120,000 messages.

There is no way of just opening and reading such last file into memory, at
least not on my computer with limited RAM. Usual text processors also do
not open such large files. LiveCode simply does not read such file and "it"
remains empty. (There should be an error message in "the result" though.)

But it was possible using the "open file <filename> for binary read" and
crawling through the file for each email message using "read from <file> at
<position> until <string>" and calculating the new starting position in
each loop.

Now, having extracted each message (over 120,000  and then storing in
database), I want to parse each email message which usually supports MIME
format with single or multi message bodies. It is not difficult for header
fields, but there have been some difficulties correctly decoding other
parts with encoded pictures, sound or whatever.

Also the HTML parts are not correctly displaying in LiveCode fields when
set to their HTML property.

There are numerous different text encodings in different messages.

My question: Did anybody already develop a parser in LiveCode accomplishing
such task? Otherwise I have to put more time her and figure it out all
myself... )

I am using Windows 10 and LC 8.0.0 DP 16.

Roland


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Mar 20 07:46:09 2016
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 07:46:09 -0400
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
	<56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG9A=dSD3S3bT080Lto=tfZMAeRMC4K9RYjaVE3OdM=X1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:03 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Well, how about having the widget section at the bottom of the revTools
> palette rather than above
> the section that is most likely to be used the most often?
>

Richmond,

You may find that you use widgets more than you think. I've been working on
a project and I use widgets much more often than the old controls. Granted,
I designed a lot of widgets for the project, but eventually widgets will
replace most (all?) of the old controls.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 08:15:46 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:15:46 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG9A=dSD3S3bT080Lto=tfZMAeRMC4K9RYjaVE3OdM=X1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
	<56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9A=dSD3S3bT080Lto=tfZMAeRMC4K9RYjaVE3OdM=X1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com>



On 20.03.2016 13:46, Trevor DeVore wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:03 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, how about having the widget section at the bottom of the revTools
>> palette rather than above
>> the section that is most likely to be used the most often?
>>
> Richmond,
>
> You may find that you use widgets more than you think. I've been working on
> a project and I use widgets much more often than the old controls. Granted,
> I designed a lot of widgets for the project, but eventually widgets will
> replace most (all?) of the old controls.
>

Possibly.

------------ Big, Slightly Pompous, Thing coming up ----------------

There is a school of thought [which, admittedly, may only have one 
member = me]
that the old controls were quite sufficient for a very large subset of 
the LiveCode
user base, and that, while the Widgets may be very clever and very jazzy 
(which they
are) that subset may use them extremely rarely.

I, for the foreseeable future, at least, will be perfectly happy 
programming with LiveCode 4.5,
with occasional excursions into 7 'territory' for the better Unicode stuff.

I should at this point out that LC 4.5 does not function on my Xubuntu 
box, but I use it extensively on
my G5 Macintosh . . .

However, it is not unreasonable to predict that, in the future, 
operating systems will arise
on which those versions cannot deliver, at which point all my 
development will transfer to
8 (or 9 ???); at which point, if I have no wish to use the Widgets, I 
won't want them "in my face"
in quite the way they are presently.

Hence my recent suggestion that they could be moved to the bottom of the 
revTools palette
rather than the top.

I do feel that, sometimes, the LiveCode people in their, understandable, 
enthusiasm to
promote the results of their hard work, fail to take into account that 
while Richard, Jacqueline,
Klaus and Thee may run at the front of the pack, there are a large 
number of us bringing up
the rear.

For instance: I am wondering whether, in my Summer Livecode classes (for 
kids between 9 and 18)
whether to use Livecode 7.x or Livecode 8.x. I do feel that the widget 
icons on the revTools
palette may serve as an unwelcome distraction from my attempts to get 
the kids to understand
the more basic, underlying concepts of programming.

The problem is complicate by the simple fact that kids, once they get 
home and hook their computers
up to the LC download site are going to be offered the "latest thang" 
which may not be what I have
shown them on the machines in my school: and a wildly different revTools 
stack may only serve
to confuse them.

Having an separate Widget palette would allow teachers and so forth, who 
didn't want the widgets
showing up, to hide them away.  I suppose were the widgets at the bottom 
of a unified revTools palette
they would, at least, be less obtrusive.

----------- End of that --------------

---------- Simpler way of putting the above -------------

I want a way to hide the Widgets in such a way that a kid opening LIveCode
won't see them at any point during his/her programming class with me.

-------- Ah, that feels better --------------

Richmond.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 08:29:03 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:29:03 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
	<56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9A=dSD3S3bT080Lto=tfZMAeRMC4K9RYjaVE3OdM=X1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EE978F.70806@gmail.com>

Pretty picture here: 
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785&p=139872#p139872

On 20.03.2016 14:15, RM wrote:
>
>
> On 20.03.2016 13:46, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:03 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, how about having the widget section at the bottom of the revTools
>>> palette rather than above
>>> the section that is most likely to be used the most often?
>>>
>> Richmond,
>>
>> You may find that you use widgets more than you think. I've been 
>> working on
>> a project and I use widgets much more often than the old controls. 
>> Granted,
>> I designed a lot of widgets for the project, but eventually widgets will
>> replace most (all?) of the old controls.
>>
>
> Possibly.
>
> ------------ Big, Slightly Pompous, Thing coming up ----------------
>
> There is a school of thought [which, admittedly, may only have one 
> member = me]
> that the old controls were quite sufficient for a very large subset of 
> the LiveCode
> user base, and that, while the Widgets may be very clever and very 
> jazzy (which they
> are) that subset may use them extremely rarely.
>
> I, for the foreseeable future, at least, will be perfectly happy 
> programming with LiveCode 4.5,
> with occasional excursions into 7 'territory' for the better Unicode 
> stuff.
>
> I should at this point out that LC 4.5 does not function on my Xubuntu 
> box, but I use it extensively on
> my G5 Macintosh . . .
>
> However, it is not unreasonable to predict that, in the future, 
> operating systems will arise
> on which those versions cannot deliver, at which point all my 
> development will transfer to
> 8 (or 9 ???); at which point, if I have no wish to use the Widgets, I 
> won't want them "in my face"
> in quite the way they are presently.
>
> Hence my recent suggestion that they could be moved to the bottom of 
> the revTools palette
> rather than the top.
>
> I do feel that, sometimes, the LiveCode people in their, 
> understandable, enthusiasm to
> promote the results of their hard work, fail to take into account that 
> while Richard, Jacqueline,
> Klaus and Thee may run at the front of the pack, there are a large 
> number of us bringing up
> the rear.
>
> For instance: I am wondering whether, in my Summer Livecode classes 
> (for kids between 9 and 18)
> whether to use Livecode 7.x or Livecode 8.x. I do feel that the widget 
> icons on the revTools
> palette may serve as an unwelcome distraction from my attempts to get 
> the kids to understand
> the more basic, underlying concepts of programming.
>
> The problem is complicate by the simple fact that kids, once they get 
> home and hook their computers
> up to the LC download site are going to be offered the "latest thang" 
> which may not be what I have
> shown them on the machines in my school: and a wildly different 
> revTools stack may only serve
> to confuse them.
>
> Having an separate Widget palette would allow teachers and so forth, 
> who didn't want the widgets
> showing up, to hide them away.  I suppose were the widgets at the 
> bottom of a unified revTools palette
> they would, at least, be less obtrusive.
>
> ----------- End of that --------------
>
> ---------- Simpler way of putting the above -------------
>
> I want a way to hide the Widgets in such a way that a kid opening 
> LIveCode
> won't see them at any point during his/her programming class with me.
>
> -------- Ah, that feels better --------------
>
> Richmond.




From iowahengst at mac.com  Sun Mar 20 10:07:28 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 09:07:28 -0500
Subject: OT iOS updates on iPad
Message-ID: <E8B11EFD-5866-4F79-80F1-B6136F3BE6BD@mac.com>

Hi All,

I?ve been searching the list archives and the Apple developer portal, but haven?t found an answer?.

Is it possible to update an iPad from iOS 6.x to iOS 7.1? 

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Mar 20 10:43:26 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 10:43:26 -0400
Subject: Separate Widget palette
Message-ID: <bb0c81da5b83d9414bdb8c03fe99893c@fourthworld.com>

Richmond wrote:

> Hence my recent suggestion that they could be moved to the bottom
> of the revTools palette rather than the top.

The core team says Widgets should be at the top. You say they should be 
at the bottom. I wonder:

Why are controls grouped by implementation method?

Why should that matter to the user?

If Widgets are controls like any other, why not intermix them with the 
rest?

They could be positioned in the palette using whatever criteria had been 
used all these years.

If there's something behaviorally incompatible about Widgets that would 
make it undesirable to treat them as first-class objects, that would 
seem a bug worth addressing.

And if not, just let them be the first-class objects they are by 
integrating them in the palette along with other first-class objects, 
grouped by functionality instead of implementation method.


> I do feel that, sometimes, the LiveCode people in their,
> understandable, enthusiasm to promote the results of their
> hard work, fail to take into account that while Richard,
> Jacqueline, Klaus and Thee may run at the front of the pack,
> there are a large number of us bringing up the rear.

Have you considered the possibility that when Jacque, Klaus, or I write 
it may simply be our own honest personal opinions, every bit as valid as 
your own?

Diversity is a sign of a healthy community, but that isn't limited to 
complaints. Part of diversity means accepting people who are patient and 
enjoying themselves.

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
____________________________________________________________
Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Mar 20 10:55:25 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 10:55:25 -0400
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
Message-ID: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> Am I the only one who ever wished you could open card 3 and
> card 10 at the same time? side by side, like a split screen
> in a text/code editor?
> 
> having the PB open to one card "A" and the actual stack open
> to card B works pretty well, but some not so well.

This is coming, but not for some time:
<http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2786>

My understanding is that the team wants that as much as the rest of us, 
as they have some IDE plans in store for it.

But as we know, they have rather a queue ahead of that, so I don't know 
what any official estimates might be but I wouldn't expect that this 
year.

So in the meantime I can think of two alternatives which might help and 
can certainly be done in a couple hours on a Sunday:

1) View-only: the import snapshot command was enhanced many years ago to 
allow rendering of objects directly into the screenshot buffer rather 
than being limited to what's on screen. This includes objects that 
aren't currently open. Try it. Kinda fun. You can make a viewer window 
that has some list of cards, and when a card is selected it gets 
rendered in an image so you can refer to it while you're working on 
another card in the actual stack.


2. Copy out and back: If you need to interact with objects in the second 
card you're viewing rather than just see them, you could copy them out 
to a viewer stack, and copy them back when you're done. Not entirely 
without trickiness, depending on how your stack is structured, but maybe 
worth exploring if that has high value for you.


-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
____________________________________________________________
Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com





From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 11:05:32 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:05:32 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <bb0c81da5b83d9414bdb8c03fe99893c@fourthworld.com>
References: <bb0c81da5b83d9414bdb8c03fe99893c@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56EEBC3C.4050207@gmail.com>



On 20.03.2016 16:43, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Richmond wrote:
>
>> Hence my recent suggestion that they could be moved to the bottom
>> of the revTools palette rather than the top.
>
> The core team says Widgets should be at the top. You say they should 
> be at the bottom.

I wonder why the core team has decided to put them at the top?

If the reason is to bring our attention to them, then it succeeds very 
well indeed.

> I wonder:
>
> Why are controls grouped by implementation method?
>
> Why should that matter to the user?

That's certainly a thought . . . .   http://ergodex.com/mainpage.htm

>
> If Widgets are controls like any other, why not intermix them with the 
> rest?
>
> They could be positioned in the palette using whatever criteria had 
> been used all these years.
>
> If there's something behaviorally incompatible about Widgets that 
> would make it undesirable to treat them as first-class objects, that 
> would seem a bug worth addressing.
>
> And if not, just let them be the first-class objects they are by 
> integrating them in the palette along with other first-class objects, 
> grouped by functionality instead of implementation method.
>
>
>> I do feel that, sometimes, the LiveCode people in their,
>> understandable, enthusiasm to promote the results of their
>> hard work, fail to take into account that while Richard,
>> Jacqueline, Klaus and Thee may run at the front of the pack,
>> there are a large number of us bringing up the rear.
>
> Have you considered the possibility that when Jacque, Klaus, or I 
> write it may simply be our own honest personal opinions, every bit as 
> valid as your own?

I have considered that; and of course your opinions are valid; but I 
would suggest that all three of you fit into a different group of people 
to the one I do (something I am sure all 3 of you will feel pleased
about!). All 3 of you make your main income from programming: I don't. 
While my computer programs
are part of my work it is not from them that my income comes.

Hence my "bringing up the rear" remark.

There are a lot of people in "the rear".

>
> Diversity is a sign of a healthy community, but that isn't limited to 
> complaints. Part of diversity means accepting people who are patient 
> and enjoying themselves.
>

Indeed. I have no wish to enforce my view on everyone; what I do want to 
do is put forward an
idea about the place of widgets in the upcoming version 8 GUI. As a 
result various other people have
suggested other ideas: so my aim has succeeded as it has stimulated 
debate which did not seem to
be going on before that.

"people who are patient and enjoying themselves." Dunno what that has to 
do with suggesting interface changes. I do ENJOY suggesting interface 
changes . . . and patiently wait for the flack,
support, whatever that comes back.

I hope a lot more people will start enjoying themselves, both with 
Livecode, and in suggesting
interface improvements.

Richmond.




From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Sun Mar 20 11:24:14 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:24:14 -0400
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56EEBC3C.4050207@gmail.com>
References: <bb0c81da5b83d9414bdb8c03fe99893c@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEBC3C.4050207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXNVU+1DwVLDSCoP3KFhNPVYFNzosexW74uU4-jo7GMTwQ@mail.gmail.com>

How about making the sections of the Tools pallette dockable?  Allow the
users to stack them according to their workflow.  I know the dev team wants
the shiny new things at the top, but that doesn't compel me to put widgets
into all of my projects.

~Roger


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 11:25:52 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:25:52 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>

This is probably hugely irrelevant, but I wonder why I cannot do this:

put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"

where stack "SUBB" is a substack of stack "STAK".

I have a very, very vague memory of being able to do that sort of thing 
somewhere (HC ???).

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 16:55, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>
>> Am I the only one who ever wished you could open card 3 and
>> card 10 at the same time? side by side, like a split screen
>> in a text/code editor?
>>
>> having the PB open to one card "A" and the actual stack open
>> to card B works pretty well, but some not so well.
>
> This is coming, but not for some time:
> <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2786>
>
> My understanding is that the team wants that as much as the rest of 
> us, as they have some IDE plans in store for it.
>
> But as we know, they have rather a queue ahead of that, so I don't 
> know what any official estimates might be but I wouldn't expect that 
> this year.
>
> So in the meantime I can think of two alternatives which might help 
> and can certainly be done in a couple hours on a Sunday:
>
> 1) View-only: the import snapshot command was enhanced many years ago 
> to allow rendering of objects directly into the screenshot buffer 
> rather than being limited to what's on screen. This includes objects 
> that aren't currently open. Try it. Kinda fun. You can make a viewer 
> window that has some list of cards, and when a card is selected it 
> gets rendered in an image so you can refer to it while you're working 
> on another card in the actual stack.
>
>
> 2. Copy out and back: If you need to interact with objects in the 
> second card you're viewing rather than just see them, you could copy 
> them out to a viewer stack, and copy them back when you're done. Not 
> entirely without trickiness, depending on how your stack is 
> structured, but maybe worth exploring if that has high value for you.
>
>




From t.heaford at icloud.com  Sun Mar 20 11:36:34 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:36:34 +0000
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56EEBC3C.4050207@gmail.com>
References: <bb0c81da5b83d9414bdb8c03fe99893c@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEBC3C.4050207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E6BCEAB0-D177-4851-ACD9-814916C3F219@icloud.com>

Why not have a palette where the user can relocate items to suit themselves?

In a common palette where all items are grouped according to their function,

Core objects, painting, drawing, widgets.

Then if required each group can be dragged to another part of the main palette or dragged off to create a
palette of their own.


All the best


Terry


> On 20 Mar 2016, at 15:05, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 20.03.2016 16:43, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Richmond wrote:
>> 
>>> Hence my recent suggestion that they could be moved to the bottom
>>> of the revTools palette rather than the top.
>> 
>> The core team says Widgets should be at the top. You say they should be at the bottom.
> 
> I wonder why the core team has decided to put them at the top?
> 
> If the reason is to bring our attention to them, then it succeeds very well indeed.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Mar 20 11:41:02 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:41:02 -0400
Subject: Separate Widget palette
Message-ID: <994adca86b8741d5a4956a10709cdd3b@fourthworld.com>

Terence Heaford wrote:
> ...
> Then if required each group can be dragged to another part of the
> main palette or dragged off to create a palette of their own.

Has Adobe's patent on dockable tabbed palettes expired yet?
http://www.cnet.com/news/adobe-wins-macromedia-patent-suit/

-- 
- Richard Gaskin
   Fourth World Systems
   wwww.fourthworld.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 11:45:32 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:45:32 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EEC59C.9090306@gmail.com>


> This is probably hugely irrelevant, but I wonder why I cannot do this:
>
> put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"
>
> where stack "SUBB" is a substack of stack "STAK".
>
> I have a very, very vague memory of being able to do that sort of 
> thing somewhere (HC ???).
>
> Richmond.
>

"In HyperCard 2.x, you can have only one stack open but many card 
windows open"

http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~pinto/hc2.html

Mind you, I cannot for the life of me remember how to code that.

R.



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Sun Mar 20 11:46:46 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:46:46 +0000
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <994adca86b8741d5a4956a10709cdd3b@fourthworld.com>
References: <994adca86b8741d5a4956a10709cdd3b@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <83ADCE8D-96D7-4443-B839-2784B884A99B@icloud.com>

If LC can?t afford the licence :) then do it like Apples? interface for Numbers & Pages but in a separate window.


All the best

Terry


> On 20 Mar 2016, at 15:41, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Has Adobe's patent on dockable tabbed palettes expired yet?



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 11:50:49 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:50:49 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <994adca86b8741d5a4956a10709cdd3b@fourthworld.com>
References: <994adca86b8741d5a4956a10709cdd3b@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56EEC6D9.7000907@gmail.com>

"a feature that allows users of design software to rearrange the work 
space on the PC screen."

Ha, Ha, Ha: I really wonder how that can be patented. Every time I open 
Livecode on a small monitor
I rearrange the work space by, for instance, moving revTools palette 
somewhere other than where it
appears when I start up LiveCode.

I don't know what is 'wrong' with a multiplicity of "palettes", each 
comprising one of the controls
offered on the current revTools palette that have "sticky edges" so, on 
being arranged by right-clicks
into place as a user wishes would all drag with a bar at the top as our 
current revTools palette does
at the moment.

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 17:41, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Terence Heaford wrote:
>> ...
>> Then if required each group can be dragged to another part of the
>> main palette or dragged off to create a palette of their own.
>
> Has Adobe's patent on dockable tabbed palettes expired yet?
> http://www.cnet.com/news/adobe-wins-macromedia-patent-suit/
>




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Mar 20 12:01:14 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:01:14 -0400
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
Message-ID: <1d469e97498288dde391b7d627299925@fourthworld.com>

Richmond wrote:
> "In HyperCard 2.x, you can have only one stack open but many card
> windows open"
> 
> http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~pinto/hc2.html
> 
> Mind you, I cannot for the life of me remember how to code that.

Calhoun's description there hints at how we could do this in LC:

     In HyperCard 2.x, you can have only one stack
     open but many card windows open -- the stacks
     in inactive windows are actually closed, i.e.
     the files on disk are closed.  As I've
     explained elsewhere, an inactive card window is
     nothing more than a big button whose "script"
     tells HC to "go to the card whose image is in
     this window".  When you click on such a window,
     HyperCard activates it, closes the current stack,
     and opens the stack in the newly active window.

You could write this in LC easily enough using:

   import snapshop from <cardLongID>

The older snapshot syntax requiring a rect can only grab from the 
current screen buffer, but the newer "from <object>" option causes a 
fresh rendering of the specified object directly into the new image's 
buffer - and those objects to not need to be open, or even in memory 
yet, at the time that command it called.  If it's a valid object 
reference, it'll work for any object that has a visual appearance 
(meaning cards and controls, but not stacks since a stack is an 
abstraction whose visible element is a card).

Try it:

answer file "Select a stack file:"
import snapshot from the long id of cd 1 of it

-- 
- Richard Gaskin
   Fourth World Systems
   wwww.fourthworld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Mar 20 12:14:45 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:14:45 -0400
Subject: Separate Widget palette
Message-ID: <b3fc3e599575dafe60c83daa072eaa3e@fourthworld.com>

Richmond wrote:

> On 20.03.2016 17:41, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Has Adobe's patent on dockable tabbed palettes expired yet?
>> http://www.cnet.com/news/adobe-wins-macromedia-patent-suit/
> 
> "a feature that allows users of design software to rearrange the
> work space on the PC screen."
> 
> Ha, Ha, Ha: I really wonder how that can be patented. Every time
> I open Livecode on a small monitor I rearrange the work space by,
> for instance, moving revTools palette somewhere other than where
> it appears when I start up LiveCode.

That's why a patent includes details beyond its one-line summary.  The 
patent is very specific; most workspace rearrangements are not 
infringements. And it may even be that it's expired by now, since it was 
filed back in the '90s and Adobe isn't Disney so they don't have the 
power to single-handledly revise US IP law at will.

But patented it was indeed:  Adobe was awarded US$2.8 million for that 
"willful" infringement.

And ironically, Adobe later acquired Macromedia so the cost to 
Macromedia for that payment became effectively just part of the 
company's purchase price.  Minus attorney's fees Adobe ultimately took a 
big loss on that, much as Apple has in their patent suits against 
Samsung (which is no doubt why they've since called a truce on all 
future patent litigation with them).

Whether patents are destroying our software economy or helping it is 
something I'll leave for others to debate.

My main point in posting this was that it's at once entertaining and 
frightening to consider the broad scope of patents that may affect out 
work, giving rise to this joke I've heard in some dev circles:

Q: How many people does it take to write a line of code?

A: Three.

    One programmer to write the line of code.

    One attorney to check that line of code against existing
    patents in all applicable jurisdictions.

    And another attorney to file a new patent on that line of
    code to be used for defensive purposes.

;)

-- 
- Richard Gaskin
   Fourth World Systems
   wwww.fourthworld.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 12:15:17 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 18:15:17 +0200
Subject: Hypercard
Message-ID: <56EECC95.2090705@gmail.com>

https://archive.org/details/The_Complete_HyperCard_Handbook



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 12:21:32 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 18:21:32 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <1d469e97498288dde391b7d627299925@fourthworld.com>
References: <1d469e97498288dde391b7d627299925@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56EECE0C.6020709@gmail.com>

https://www.questia.com/magazine/1G1-8948114/hypercard-2-0-a-closer-look

"HyperCard 2.0, however, will not allow you to have two or more windows 
open that show cards from the same stack. The members of die HyperCard 
Development Team had planned such a feature, but dropped it from the 
final release since it presented a number of thorny human interface 
problems."

On 20.03.2016 18:01, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Richmond wrote:
>> "In HyperCard 2.x, you can have only one stack open but many card
>> windows open"
>>
>> http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~pinto/hc2.html
>>
>> Mind you, I cannot for the life of me remember how to code that.
>
> Calhoun's description there hints at how we could do this in LC:
>
>     In HyperCard 2.x, you can have only one stack
>     open but many card windows open -- the stacks
>     in inactive windows are actually closed, i.e.
>     the files on disk are closed.  As I've
>     explained elsewhere, an inactive card window is
>     nothing more than a big button whose "script"
>     tells HC to "go to the card whose image is in
>     this window".  When you click on such a window,
>     HyperCard activates it, closes the current stack,
>     and opens the stack in the newly active window.
>
> You could write this in LC easily enough using:
>
>   import snapshop from <cardLongID>
>
> The older snapshot syntax requiring a rect can only grab from the 
> current screen buffer, but the newer "from <object>" option causes a 
> fresh rendering of the specified object directly into the new image's 
> buffer - and those objects to not need to be open, or even in memory 
> yet, at the time that command it called.  If it's a valid object 
> reference, it'll work for any object that has a visual appearance 
> (meaning cards and controls, but not stacks since a stack is an 
> abstraction whose visible element is a card).
>
> Try it:
>
> answer file "Select a stack file:"
> import snapshot from the long id of cd 1 of it
>




From prothero at earthednet.org  Sun Mar 20 12:39:03 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 09:39:03 -0700
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <b3fc3e599575dafe60c83daa072eaa3e@fourthworld.com>
References: <b3fc3e599575dafe60c83daa072eaa3e@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A92E8F07-A45E-4A18-B3A0-4E528B70BB05@earthednet.org>

Folks,
Some of the software I use has a "views" menu that shows a list of "columns" or items that appear on a specific palette or screen. I wonder if such a menu might be convenient in this case. The user could choose "basic", "extended", "All" or whatever. I can sympathize with Richmond's desire, for programming education purposes, to have a tools palette that shows only the controls he wants his kids to see.

Even better, for his purposes, maybe an app that kids load to start, that loads a custom tools palette and hides the default one we all see. Then the kids aren't distracted by the wonderful bells and whistles that most of us want available, front and center.

Just my 2cents.
Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 20, 2016, at 9:14 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Richmond wrote:
> 
>>> On 20.03.2016 17:41, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>> Has Adobe's patent on dockable tabbed palettes expired yet?
>>> http://www.cnet.com/news/adobe-wins-macromedia-patent-suit/
>> "a feature that allows users of design software to rearrange the
>> work space on the PC screen."
>> Ha, Ha, Ha: I really wonder how that can be patented. Every time
>> I open Livecode on a small monitor I rearrange the work space by,
>> for instance, moving revTools palette somewhere other than where
>> it appears when I start up LiveCode.
> 
> That's why a patent includes details beyond its one-line summary.  The patent is very specific; most workspace rearrangements are not infringements. And it may even be that it's expired by now, since it was filed back in the '90s and Adobe isn't Disney so they don't have the power to single-handledly revise US IP law at will.
> 
> But patented it was indeed:  Adobe was awarded US$2.8 million for that "willful" infringement.
> 
> And ironically, Adobe later acquired Macromedia so the cost to Macromedia for that payment became effectively just part of the company's purchase price.  Minus attorney's fees Adobe ultimately took a big loss on that, much as Apple has in their patent suits against Samsung (which is no doubt why they've since called a truce on all future patent litigation with them).
> 
> Whether patents are destroying our software economy or helping it is something I'll leave for others to debate.
> 
> My main point in posting this was that it's at once entertaining and frightening to consider the broad scope of patents that may affect out work, giving rise to this joke I've heard in some dev circles:
> 
> Q: How many people does it take to write a line of code?
> 
> A: Three.
> 
>   One programmer to write the line of code.
> 
>   One attorney to check that line of code against existing
>   patents in all applicable jurisdictions.
> 
>   And another attorney to file a new patent on that line of
>   code to be used for defensive purposes.
> 
> ;)
> 
> -- 
> - Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  wwww.fourthworld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From Camm29 at tesco.net  Sun Mar 20 12:40:53 2016
From: Camm29 at tesco.net (Camm)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:40:53 -0000
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <56EB3CB6.6090302@warrensweb.us>
References: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
	<56EB3CB6.6090302@warrensweb.us>
Message-ID: <001801d182c7$4516a5f0$cf43f1d0$@tesco.net>

All ,

Just to be clear the EU VAT change Jan 2016 applies to even 1 download if sold to any EU member state customer at their current VAT rate.
It applies to any digital product that is downloaded with no physical fulfilment , its defined by "minimal user input to obtain download" so even if you sale licence keys the new rules apply.

Simple flowchart :-
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf

Camm


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Warren Samples
Sent: 17 March 2016 23:25
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?

On 03/17/2016 01:06 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:
> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with 
> LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales...He?s 
> in the US
>
> ..sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment...I am not sure about the US.

There is no sales tax charged for any online sales in the US except for sales to customers located within a state where the vendor has a physical office or point of sale. Your stateside partner probably knows this already. As far as software with no physical delivery goes, it could be considered several different ways which will vary from state to state but again you are only concerned with how the state where he is qualifies it. Ask your partner to contact the revenue department of the state in which he resides and ask them how to proceed. That would be the only state where you have any possible obligation and even then, depending on how your partnership/company is structured and how they consider this kind of product, you might not have any at all.


https://www.sba.gov/content/collecting-sales-tax-over-internet

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/businesstaxes/f/onlinesalestax.htm

http://www.inc.com/articles/2003/10/salestax.html

Good luck!

Warren

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date: 03/19/16

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date: 03/19/16
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date: 03/19/16
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date: 03/19/16




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 12:47:50 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:47:50 -0500
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
	<56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9A=dSD3S3bT080Lto=tfZMAeRMC4K9RYjaVE3OdM=X1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15394ecf2f0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

On March 20, 2016 7:17:17 AM RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:

> I want a way to hide the Widgets in such a way that a kid opening LIveCode
> won't see them at any point during his/her programming class with me.

You can hide the widget panel using the settings/gear icon.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar 20 12:54:31 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 09:54:31 -0700
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
	<56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9A=dSD3S3bT080Lto=tfZMAeRMC4K9RYjaVE3OdM=X1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EED5C7.3020109@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/20/2016 05:15 AM, RM wrote:

> I should at this point out that LC 4.5 does not function on my Xubuntu
> box, but I use it extensively on
> my G5 Macintosh . . .

That's a bit strange. LC 4.6.4 is my workhorse on Mint 17.2, which has a 
ubuntu core.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 12:55:36 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 18:55:36 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <15394ecf2f0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
	<56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9A=dSD3S3bT080Lto=tfZMAeRMC4K9RYjaVE3OdM=X1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com>
	<15394ecf2f0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EED608.5010106@gmail.com>

Thanks: I've just tried that.

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 18:47, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On March 20, 2016 7:17:17 AM RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I want a way to hide the Widgets in such a way that a kid opening 
>> LIveCode
>> won't see them at any point during his/her programming class with me.
>
> You can hide the widget panel using the settings/gear icon.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 13:01:03 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:01:03 +0200
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <56EED5C7.3020109@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56ED9F78.6080507@gmail.com>
	<3bca101c15322a754f029c91a439d1e7@livecode.com>
	<56EE5966.6070809@gmail.com>
	<CAHg3tG9A=dSD3S3bT080Lto=tfZMAeRMC4K9RYjaVE3OdM=X1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EE9472.6020508@gmail.com> <56EED5C7.3020109@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56EED74F.3050208@gmail.com>



On 20.03.2016 18:54, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/20/2016 05:15 AM, RM wrote:
>
>> I should at this point out that LC 4.5 does not function on my Xubuntu
>> box, but I use it extensively on
>> my G5 Macintosh . . .
>
> That's a bit strange. LC 4.6.4 is my workhorse on Mint 17.2, which has 
> a ubuntu core.
>

I've just installed 4.5 successfully on Xubuntu 64 bit 15.10: I had not 
had it installed
as it was certainly not working on 32 bit 14.04, and I had, wrongly, 
assumed
"that was that".

Thank you for prodding me: a great help.

Richmond.



From christer at mindcrea.com  Sun Mar 20 13:43:48 2016
From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?utf-8?Q?Pyyhti=C3=A4_Christer?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:43:48 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1722.1458493268.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1722.1458493268.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <808C35A1-D983-40CE-8188-5A9628EE15AA@mindcrea.com>

Another way of improving the productivity in development would be to develop the IDE so that you can edit the same script in two windows or separately scrollable sections.  This kind of capability is available in some development environments, even in applications like Excel.
Christer Pyyhti?
christer at mindcrea.com

> On 20.3.2016, at 19:01 , use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Re: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 13:55:57 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:55:57 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <808C35A1-D983-40CE-8188-5A9628EE15AA@mindcrea.com>
References: <mailman.1722.1458493268.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<808C35A1-D983-40CE-8188-5A9628EE15AA@mindcrea.com>
Message-ID: <56EEE42D.3070908@gmail.com>

I wonder what you mean about editing the same script in two windows; do 
you mean:

1. The ability to see 2 different parts of a long script in two windows.

2. The ability to look at the same section of a script in two windows.

If you mean the first then that makes a lot of sense, if you mean the second
it doesn't seem to make much sense at all.

This is possible right now!

1. Open the script of a control.

2. Open the script of another control.

3. Set them in separate windows.

4. Use the "recent scripts" icon (looks like a clock) to set the second 
scriptEditor window
   to show the first script.

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 19:43, Pyyhti? Christer wrote:
> Another way of improving the productivity in development would be to develop the IDE so that you can edit the same script in two windows or separately scrollable sections.  This kind of capability is available in some development environments, even in applications like Excel.
> Christer Pyyhti?
> christer at mindcrea.com
>
>> On 20.3.2016, at 19:01 , use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>
>> Re: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 13:28:37 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 10:28:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Version 8, DP16 Tutorial Runthrough
In-Reply-To: <3FCC0219-CDC5-4C54-9C83-6CE2FD8EA3D6@byu.edu>
References: <E16D72EB-2A0C-421D-BB44-F3FB0918577A@earthednet.org>
	<CAJR0Q1gUdMP2MPCddm5u9tiFb01JpuY=xQ8h2pUj2hi7iR-EFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<46DB6042-7B30-4E6E-972D-25EF158C66C1@earthednet.org>
	<9543A584-0ECE-40CF-A399-3611043CA6E3@byu.edu>
	<3FCC0219-CDC5-4C54-9C83-6CE2FD8EA3D6@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <1458494917826-4702434.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi All,

Using Ubuntu 14.04 for 64-bit, this Tutorial crash 
and close LiveCode v8 DP16 when I reach the
Browser section. Later, today I will test it
on Windows.

Overall, the Tutorial is really well done.
Congratulations! :D

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Version-8-DP16-Tutorial-Runthrough-tp4702321p4702434.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 20 13:58:12 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:58:12 +0000
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56eee4b5.1683cd36.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>

<http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2786>

Ha!  from 2013 and marked as "Confirmed"

I could not make the requirement statement any more simple than Mark did himself,

"This is something we've talked about internally for a while - in particular to enable an easier way to compose interfaces, such as the IDE."

which is exactly where I am at the moment, developing a new app from ground zero i.e. "composing interface in the IDE."

ASIDE: That feature request is still being watched by our dear Bill Marriott, though I expect he's reincarnated already and just downloaded LC 8 in a few days ago to pick up where he left off.

BR


On March 20, 2016 at 5:26:18 AM, RM (richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>) wrote:

> This is coming, but not for some time:
> <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2786>
>

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 14:00:17 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 20:00:17 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEE42D.3070908@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1722.1458493268.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<808C35A1-D983-40CE-8188-5A9628EE15AA@mindcrea.com>
	<56EEE42D.3070908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EEE531.2090101@gmail.com>

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26847

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 19:55, RM wrote:
> I wonder what you mean about editing the same script in two windows; 
> do you mean:
>
> 1. The ability to see 2 different parts of a long script in two windows.
>
> 2. The ability to look at the same section of a script in two windows.
>
> If you mean the first then that makes a lot of sense, if you mean the 
> second
> it doesn't seem to make much sense at all.
>
> This is possible right now!
>
> 1. Open the script of a control.
>
> 2. Open the script of another control.
>
> 3. Set them in separate windows.
>
> 4. Use the "recent scripts" icon (looks like a clock) to set the 
> second scriptEditor window
>   to show the first script.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 20.03.2016 19:43, Pyyhti? Christer wrote:
>> Another way of improving the productivity in development would be to 
>> develop the IDE so that you can edit the same script in two windows 
>> or separately scrollable sections.  This kind of capability is 
>> available in some development environments, even in applications like 
>> Excel.
>> Christer Pyyhti?
>> christer at mindcrea.com
>>
>>> On 20.3.2016, at 19:01 , use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Re: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Mar 20 14:05:16 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:05:16 -0700
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2FDE5BFB-8EAC-4CED-B5AE-1E430F916415@tactilemedia.com>

You probably want "copy card..." instead of "put card..."

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media UX/UI Design

> On Mar 20, 2016, at 8:25 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> This is probably hugely irrelevant, but I wonder why I cannot do this:
> 
> put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"
> 
> where stack "SUBB" is a substack of stack "STAK".
> 
> I have a very, very vague memory of being able to do that sort of thing somewhere (HC ???).
> 
> Richmond.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 14:12:16 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 20:12:16 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <2FDE5BFB-8EAC-4CED-B5AE-1E430F916415@tactilemedia.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
	<2FDE5BFB-8EAC-4CED-B5AE-1E430F916415@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <56EEE800.3050100@gmail.com>

The scriptEditor threw a wobbly with copy.

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 20:05, Scott Rossi wrote:
> You probably want "copy card..." instead of "put card..."
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media UX/UI Design
>
>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 8:25 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is probably hugely irrelevant, but I wonder why I cannot do this:
>>
>> put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"
>>
>> where stack "SUBB" is a substack of stack "STAK".
>>
>> I have a very, very vague memory of being able to do that sort of thing somewhere (HC ???).
>>
>> Richmond.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 14:20:52 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458498052558-4702439.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi,

Check if WordLib could help you
with this particular task:

http://curryk.com/wordlib.html

Does Unicode handles all different encodings?
http://livecode.byu.edu/unicode/unicodeInRev.html

By the way, some years ago, I posted
a Mailbox reader, check this stack just 
in case that you find something useful:
http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/alejandro/stacks/Mailbox_browser.zip

Have a nice weekend!

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-parser-for-Email-MIME-tp4702407p4702439.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From livfoss at mac.com  Sun Mar 20 15:23:31 2016
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 20:23:31 +0100
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <001801d182c7$4516a5f0$cf43f1d0$@tesco.net>
References: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
	<56EB3CB6.6090302@warrensweb.us>
	<001801d182c7$4516a5f0$cf43f1d0$@tesco.net>
Message-ID: <BC7C1CEE-E337-445D-9610-2A7645DE192A@mac.com>

Camm, that is really good info! It makes a cast-iron case for using someone like KAGI, as far as I can see. The whole system seems to me to be bureaucratic and obstructive, but there it is. Thanks for this link.

Graham


> On 20 Mar 2016, at 17:40, Camm <camm29 at tesco.net> wrote:
> 
> All ,
> 
> Just to be clear the EU VAT change Jan 2016 applies to even 1 download if sold to any EU member state customer at their current VAT rate.
> It applies to any digital product that is downloaded with no physical fulfilment , its defined by "minimal user input to obtain download" so even if you sale licence keys the new rules apply.
> 
> Simple flowchart :-
> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf
> 
> Camm
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Warren Samples
> Sent: 17 March 2016 23:25
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Subject: Re: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
> 
> On 03/17/2016 01:06 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:
>> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with 
>> LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales...He?s 
>> in the US
>> 
>> ..sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical fulfilment...I am not sure about the US.
> 
> There is no sales tax charged for any online sales in the US except for sales to customers located within a state where the vendor has a physical office or point of sale. Your stateside partner probably knows this already. As far as software with no physical delivery goes, it could be considered several different ways which will vary from state to state but again you are only concerned with how the state where he is qualifies it. Ask your partner to contact the revenue department of the state in which he resides and ask them how to proceed. That would be the only state where you have any possible obligation and even then, depending on how your partnership/company is structured and how they consider this kind of product, you might not have any at all.
> 
> 
> https://www.sba.gov/content/collecting-sales-tax-over-internet
> 
> http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/businesstaxes/f/onlinesalestax.htm
> 
> http://www.inc.com/articles/2003/10/salestax.html
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Warren
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date: 03/19/16
> 
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date: 03/19/16
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date: 03/19/16
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date: 03/19/16
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 15:29:01 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:29:01 -0500
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEE800.3050100@gmail.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
	<2FDE5BFB-8EAC-4CED-B5AE-1E430F916415@tactilemedia.com>
	<56EEE800.3050100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EEF9FD.4000000@hyperactivesw.com>

If you really did name your card "3" then that could be the reason. This 
works:

copy card 3 of stack "STAK" to stack "SUBB"

If you meant you want to replace the contents of the SUBB card with the 
copied one, then just delete the "replacement" card in SUBB. If you want 
to set the position of the copied card, after the copy do this:

  set the number of this card of stack "SUBB" to 1 -- or any integer


On 3/20/2016 1:12 PM, RM wrote:
> The scriptEditor threw a wobbly with copy.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 20.03.2016 20:05, Scott Rossi wrote:
>> You probably want "copy card..." instead of "put card..."
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media UX/UI Design
>>
>>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 8:25 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is probably hugely irrelevant, but I wonder why I cannot do this:
>>>
>>> put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"
>>>
>>> where stack "SUBB" is a substack of stack "STAK".


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From monte at appisle.net  Sun Mar 20 15:33:05 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 06:33:05 +1100
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EB334A5-2195-4596-A6D4-F223F967A3CA@appisle.net>

From memory you can:
go card X in stack Y

It just takes over the window. Is that what you want?

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 Mar 2016, at 2:25 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 15:08:14 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Interactive Tour
In-Reply-To: <56EC7381.5000001@gmail.com>
References: <56EC7381.5000001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458500894201-4702443.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi,


RM wrote
> [SNIP] unfortunately, if I open a new stack so that 
> I can copy some of the stuff during the tour,
> the tour stack closes and vanishes.
> Xubuntu 64 bit.
> Is this a bug, or is this intentional?

In Ubuntu 14.04 64 bit, the Tour Stack
close and crash LC IDE when the Tutorial 
reach the part to use the Browser.

Overall, this tutorial is really well done. 
Congratulations! :D

Al



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Interactive-Tour-tp4702362p4702443.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 15:14:54 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:14:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <56EECC95.2090705@gmail.com>
References: <56EECC95.2090705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458501294669-4702444.post@n4.nabble.com>

Just out of curiosity, I downloaded the epub version (1.5 mb) and noticed too
many errors in the text. :(

Hopefully, PDF version (575 MB) does not show all these errors... :o

For the tittle, this book sounds promising too :D
https://archive.org/details/Hyper_Card_Power

Al





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Hypercard-tp4702424p4702444.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 15:48:58 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:48:58 +0200
Subject: Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <1458501294669-4702444.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <56EECC95.2090705@gmail.com>
	<1458501294669-4702444.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56EEFEAA.7040902@gmail.com>

The PDF version appears to be a sequence of photographs.

R.

On 20.03.2016 21:14, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, I downloaded the epub version (1.5 mb) and noticed too
> many errors in the text. :(
>
> Hopefully, PDF version (575 MB) does not show all these errors... :o
>
> For the tittle, this book sounds promising too :D
> https://archive.org/details/Hyper_Card_Power
>
> Al
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Hypercard-tp4702424p4702444.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 15:51:07 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:51:07 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEF9FD.4000000@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
	<2FDE5BFB-8EAC-4CED-B5AE-1E430F916415@tactilemedia.com>
	<56EEE800.3050100@gmail.com> <56EEF9FD.4000000@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EEFF2B.1040500@gmail.com>

Indeed:

I did name my card "3" (slight lack of imagination there).

Your script did work.

Thanks.

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 21:29, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> If you really did name your card "3" then that could be the reason. 
> This works:
>
> copy card 3 of stack "STAK" to stack "SUBB"
>
> If you meant you want to replace the contents of the SUBB card with 
> the copied one, then just delete the "replacement" card in SUBB. If 
> you want to set the position of the copied card, after the copy do this:
>
>  set the number of this card of stack "SUBB" to 1 -- or any integer
>
>
> On 3/20/2016 1:12 PM, RM wrote:
>> The scriptEditor threw a wobbly with copy.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 20.03.2016 20:05, Scott Rossi wrote:
>>> You probably want "copy card..." instead of "put card..."
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Scott Rossi
>>> Creative Director
>>> Tactile Media UX/UI Design
>>>
>>>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 8:25 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is probably hugely irrelevant, but I wonder why I cannot do this:
>>>>
>>>> put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"
>>>>
>>>> where stack "SUBB" is a substack of stack "STAK".
>
>




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 15:52:35 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:52:35 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <4EB334A5-2195-4596-A6D4-F223F967A3CA@appisle.net>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
	<4EB334A5-2195-4596-A6D4-F223F967A3CA@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56EEFF83.1000707@gmail.com>

That didn't work in LR 7.1 just now.

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 21:33, Monte Goulding wrote:
>  From memory you can:
> go card X in stack Y
>
> It just takes over the window. Is that what you want?
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 21 Mar 2016, at 2:25 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 15:54:08 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:54:08 -0500
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EE60AF.9070602@livecode.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com> <56EE60AF.9070602@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56EEFFE0.1060901@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/20/2016 3:34 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Do the problems with the #-component in revBrowser go away if you use an
> RFC 1738 file URL?

Yes, some of it does. The file loads into the browser either way but 
subsequent navigation causes the browser content to go blank. It's 
because when queried, the URL the browser returns is "about:blank" 
instead of the file path.

I do feel a little stupid about forgetting to replace the spaces in the 
file path though. I knew about that but didn't notice them because the 
file does load okay initially.

If I store the original URL in a script local and append the hashtag to 
that, then it does work. I'll revise the report. If revBrowser would 
return the file path instead of "about:blank" it would be flawless.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 16:19:00 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:19:00 +0200
Subject: Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <56EECC95.2090705@gmail.com>
References: <56EECC95.2090705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EF05B4.2050209@gmail.com>


https://archive.org/details/The_Complete_HyperCard_Handbook

https://archive.org/details/mac_Danny_Goodmans_HyperCard_Developers_Guide_1988




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 16:26:50 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:26:50 -0500
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EEFFE0.1060901@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com> <56EE60AF.9070602@livecode.com>
	<56EEFFE0.1060901@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EF078A.3020900@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/20/2016 2:54 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Yes, some of it does. The file loads into the browser either way but
> subsequent navigation causes the browser content to go blank. It's
> because when queried, the URL the browser returns is "about:blank"
> instead of the file path.

Revising this too, it does work once I rearranged my script. I closed 
the report as "Not a bug". I hate when I misreport stuff.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From monte at appisle.net  Sun Mar 20 16:44:58 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:44:58 +1100
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEFF83.1000707@gmail.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
	<4EB334A5-2195-4596-A6D4-F223F967A3CA@appisle.net>
	<56EEFF83.1000707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <676C63A9-5838-4BFF-9445-1834EFEC87CD@appisle.net>


> On 21 Mar 2016, at 6:52 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That didn't work in LR 7.1 just now.

Ah, sorry. It?s

go card X of stack Y in window (windowID of stack Z)

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 16:52:05 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:52:05 -0500
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEFF83.1000707@gmail.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
	<4EB334A5-2195-4596-A6D4-F223F967A3CA@appisle.net>
	<56EEFF83.1000707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EF0D75.7040100@hyperactivesw.com>

Try: go cd x OF stack y

On 3/20/2016 2:52 PM, RM wrote:
> That didn't work in LR 7.1 just now.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 20.03.2016 21:33, Monte Goulding wrote:
>>  From memory you can:
>> go card X in stack Y
>>
>> It just takes over the window. Is that what you want?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Monte
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 21 Mar 2016, at 2:25 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> put card "3" of stack "STAK" into card "1" of stack "SUBB"
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 20 16:53:37 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:53:37 -0500
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EEFF2B.1040500@gmail.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
	<2FDE5BFB-8EAC-4CED-B5AE-1E430F916415@tactilemedia.com>
	<56EEE800.3050100@gmail.com> <56EEF9FD.4000000@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56EEFF2B.1040500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56EF0DD1.4000403@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/20/2016 2:51 PM, RM wrote:
> I did name my card "3" (slight lack of imagination there).

Naming an object or a card with only a number will make LC treat it as a 
position rather than a name. Always include at least one alpha 
character: "c3".

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sun Mar 20 16:56:48 2016
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 20:56:48 +0000
Subject: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
In-Reply-To: <BC7C1CEE-E337-445D-9610-2A7645DE192A@mac.com>
References: <97E4FD9A-E733-4E0A-B57C-97B31E4C5F59@mac.com>
	<56EB3CB6.6090302@warrensweb.us>
	<001801d182c7$4516a5f0$cf43f1d0$@tesco.net>
	<BC7C1CEE-E337-445D-9610-2A7645DE192A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAFarJbfuzf1jvvPy3LUQNdzVAuNQrCZzWtKRJh4+nWxox93W6g@mail.gmail.com>

I've used Kagi for years. Excellent, experienced service.
Kai was or is a Rev user, used to post to this list.

sims

--

On Sunday, March 20, 2016, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:

> Camm, that is really good info! It makes a cast-iron case for using
> someone like KAGI, as far as I can see. The whole system seems to me to be
> bureaucratic and obstructive, but there it is. Thanks for this link.
>
> Graham
>
>
> > On 20 Mar 2016, at 17:40, Camm <camm29 at tesco.net <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > All ,
> >
> > Just to be clear the EU VAT change Jan 2016 applies to even 1 download
> if sold to any EU member state customer at their current VAT rate.
> > It applies to any digital product that is downloaded with no physical
> fulfilment , its defined by "minimal user input to obtain download" so even
> if you sale licence keys the new rules apply.
> >
> > Simple flowchart :-
> >
> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf
> >
> > Camm
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Warren Samples
> > Sent: 17 March 2016 23:25
> > To: How to use LiveCode
> > Subject: Re: OT(ish): Selling software downloads - sales tax?
> >
> > On 03/17/2016 01:06 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:
> >> I have been discussing the sale of a desktop product (developed with
> >> LC, obviously) with a colleague. We?re thinking of direct sales...He?s
> >> in the US
> >>
> >> ..sell a low volume of product purely as a download with no physical
> fulfilment...I am not sure about the US.
> >
> > There is no sales tax charged for any online sales in the US except for
> sales to customers located within a state where the vendor has a physical
> office or point of sale. Your stateside partner probably knows this
> already. As far as software with no physical delivery goes, it could be
> considered several different ways which will vary from state to state but
> again you are only concerned with how the state where he is qualifies it.
> Ask your partner to contact the revenue department of the state in which he
> resides and ask them how to proceed. That would be the only state where you
> have any possible obligation and even then, depending on how your
> partnership/company is structured and how they consider this kind of
> product, you might not have any at all.
> >
> >
> > https://www.sba.gov/content/collecting-sales-tax-over-internet
> >
> > http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/businesstaxes/f/onlinesalestax.htm
> >
> > http://www.inc.com/articles/2003/10/salestax.html
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Warren
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <javascript:;>
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date:
> 03/19/16
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date:
> 03/19/16
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date:
> 03/19/16
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4542/11842 - Release Date:
> 03/19/16
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <javascript:;>
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <javascript:;>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



-- 
Sent from my iPodo - it makes weird spelling sometimes :-P


From monte at appisle.net  Sun Mar 20 16:57:04 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:57:04 +1100
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EF0D75.7040100@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <5da441befa8ab6642f8118b7f13ea420@fourthworld.com>
	<56EEC100.1070405@gmail.com>
	<4EB334A5-2195-4596-A6D4-F223F967A3CA@appisle.net>
	<56EEFF83.1000707@gmail.com> <56EF0D75.7040100@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F424B505-CA9B-4976-8373-ECCE2E1362F8@appisle.net>


> On 21 Mar 2016, at 7:52 AM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
> 
> Try: go cd x OF stack y

That just presents the card in its stack. The object was to present it in a different stack wasn?t it. I misremembered the ?in window <windowID>? syntax. Not enough coffee consumed yet this morning.

Cheers

Monte

From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sun Mar 20 17:44:00 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:44:00 +0000
Subject: RevBrowser in 8.0.0 DP 15
In-Reply-To: <56EF078A.3020900@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CA+JfEq_b7FynLyjDRxuK_y9zOtSBmeK6uj8ZjWL-tq418LVnFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56EB2BBF.8020505@hyperactivesw.com> <56EBB269.1030900@livecode.com>
	<56ECD0C4.8080800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<etPan.56edce76.7895f299.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56EE23A6.80507@hyperactivesw.com> <56EE60AF.9070602@livecode.com>
	<56EEFFE0.1060901@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56EF078A.3020900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56EF19A0.1060703@livecode.com>

On 20/03/2016 20:26, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/20/2016 2:54 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> Yes, some of it does. The file loads into the browser either way but
>> subsequent navigation causes the browser content to go blank. It's
>> because when queried, the URL the browser returns is "about:blank"
>> instead of the file path.
>
> Revising this too, it does work once I rearranged my script. I closed
> the report as "Not a bug". I hate when I misreport stuff.

Don't worry about it -- but please open another bug about the fact that 
the documention for the URL property of the browser widget doesn't 
mention that you need to use "real" file URLs rather than LiveCode file 
URLs!  Otherwise I might forget. :-/

                                  Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk  Sun Mar 20 17:52:05 2016
From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:52:05 +0000
Subject: Standalone settings
Message-ID: <DUB114-W91F911793FEE92AAE38713ED8E0@phx.gbl>

Make a stack with LC 7.1.3... save it... choose iOS in standalone settings... no problem
Make a stack with LC 8.0.0 (DP 16)... save it... all the deployment options are greyed out, so am unable to choose one...:-(

Do the same however with DP14 and there is no problem.. Anyone else seen this ?
 		 	   		  

From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 18:06:02 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 00:06:02 +0200
Subject: Standalone settings
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W91F911793FEE92AAE38713ED8E0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB114-W91F911793FEE92AAE38713ED8E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <56EF1ECA.4060804@gmail.com>

Not over here on the Linux 64 bit side: although, for some odd reason
all the texts such as "Mac OS X 32-bit" are now displayed in white so
hellishly difficult to see against the grey of the standalone builder stack.

Richmond.

On 20.03.2016 23:52, John Dixon wrote:
> Make a stack with LC 7.1.3... save it... choose iOS in standalone settings... no problem
> Make a stack with LC 8.0.0 (DP 16)... save it... all the deployment options are greyed out, so am unable to choose one...:-(
>
> Do the same however with DP14 and there is no problem.. Anyone else seen this ?
>   		 	   		
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 20 18:21:19 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:21:19 +0000
Subject: Typography for Mobile -- Best Practices Guidance
Message-ID: <etPan.56ef225f.31a18ae7.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>

As our new app hits the interface design stage we have endless discussions on the "eye candy" side of the design. Good news is that one of our inhouse team who has been designing for print for 30 years, finally set up a document in InDesign to 736 px X 414px. Yay! Big break through because it means we can get through the design phase faster -- if he is not happy, nothing moves.  So he can participate and I usually don't worry too much, as long as the UX is strong. But then what I can do may turn out "ugly."  So far I have pretty much able to match anything thrown at me from Indesign and Illustrator with native LC objects with a little patient tweaking of object props.  (only major gap there is the inability to bring in vector as a single object)

But, we need advice here on best practices for typography in LC for Mobile that I can share with the team

Questions seem simple enough (I hope it is)

1) Assuming we want to avoid loading fonts into LC

If we use the Droid family... is that available  on iOS?  if so, how do you specify that so that it is not substituted for Roboto on Android (the Droid font is so much better looking)

If not, what can we use that will

a) work on Mac Desktop

b) work the same on iOS (I'm having trouble there myself with a font that is huge on the desktop and smaller on the iPHone -- as if the metrics were completely different, even though I'm working in 736 X 414 px in both platforms)

c) be substituted on Android, but still have the same look and feel?

2) Were we to load a font in LC, are display results "robustly predictable" across all devices. Typically where one gets bitten is the line length  and or X heights/line heights  growsor shrink relative to the original design. If the design of a particular "module" mandates some precision on the formatted height of the field/label/visible name etc.  you are then in big trouble.

I can start from ground zero, search the web etc... but I'm sure other LC developers have "been there done that" ... can you share your insights?

Mahalo!
BR







From christer at mindcrea.com  Sun Mar 20 18:27:00 2016
From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?utf-8?Q?Pyyhti=C3=A4_Christer?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 00:27:00 +0200
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1745.1458511570.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1745.1458511570.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3A349449-2FF7-4B3B-9F4F-61E01759E196@mindcrea.com>

What I meant with two windows or sections (call then "windows") to a script is as follows.

Within IDE, I have two windows both displaying sections of the same (for example long stack) script.  I can go to both windows, click one, scroll one, do edits in one, save the script, click on the other one, scroll, edit, save etc.  I could even have exactly the same lines in both windows; then I edit the one, preferably I will see the edit taking place in the other simultaneously; the second best alternative is that the change is shown after saving.

Just open your Excel worksheet, take the divider, you will see into two sections of the worksheet.  When you edit in one, you'll see the edit taking place in both, if you happen to view the same part of the sheet.

The idea is that you might have handlers you want to view when 'calling' them from your new created code to make sure it is going ok.  Or you had written an algorithm you want to copy into your new handler. Etc.

I have asked for this enhancement several times during the years.  It could speed up the development drastically.  Now an extension to this is the existing Google - I do not know is it called sharing - but two or more persons remote from each are able to share and edit the same document simultaneously.  A very much appreciated capability.



Christer Pyyhti?
christer at mindcrea.com

> On 21.3.2016, at 00:06 , use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Re: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 18:53:04 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 18:53:04 -0400
Subject: OT iOS updates on iPad
In-Reply-To: <E8B11EFD-5866-4F79-80F1-B6136F3BE6BD@mac.com>
References: <E8B11EFD-5866-4F79-80F1-B6136F3BE6BD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C15347FD-F386-4436-BDA5-BC4F312E3C69@gmail.com>

iPad 1 could only go to 5.1.1, so if you?re on iOS 6, I think whatever iPad you have can be updated to iOS 9. If you only want to update to 7.1 I?m not sure where you would get that. One possible problem is that Apple would stop signing out of date versions, which would mean that if you found the installer it may still not work.


> On Mar 20, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Randy Hengst <iowahengst at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I?ve been searching the list archives and the Apple developer portal, but haven?t found an answer?.
> 
> Is it possible to update an iPad from iOS 6.x to iOS 7.1? 
> 
> be well,
> randy
> 
> Randy Hengst
> www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com
> 




From smaclean at madmansoft.com  Sun Mar 20 19:04:15 2016
From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:04:15 -0400
Subject: [ANN] rsIsValid 0.1.0 LC8 library extension
Message-ID: <CD587127-7888-48E4-AB7E-75D21F26CD5C@madmansoft.com>

Hi All,

I'm please to announce the first pass of rsIsValid. It is a livecode 8 library widget and has been built and tested with LC 8.0 DP16. It contains functions that help validate data like credit card numbers, emails, URL?s, etc. The functions included in this release are listed on the first post at http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=26653&p=138698#p138698. 

The example file let?s you test both the LiveCode script and LCB versions of the functions so you can see what?s happening and compare how one does things in script vs LiveCode Builder. PLEASE NOTE: Once downloaded, you will still need to install the extension into LC8 in order for the ?Test LCB? buttons to work.

I'm also looking at including some functions that other folks have sent me for sometime in the future.

If you have issues, or find a test case that doesn't work like you think it should, please let me know on the forums or via email

You can download both the example file and the livecode 8 extension at the forum post or from github

You can find everything including the LCB source on github: https://github.com/renegadesteve/rsIsValid

If you want to add to rsIsValid please do so! This is a project for the community and community input is more than welcome!

Best,

Steve





From iowahengst at mac.com  Sun Mar 20 19:28:59 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 18:28:59 -0500
Subject: OT iOS updates on iPad
In-Reply-To: <C15347FD-F386-4436-BDA5-BC4F312E3C69@gmail.com>
References: <E8B11EFD-5866-4F79-80F1-B6136F3BE6BD@mac.com>
	<C15347FD-F386-4436-BDA5-BC4F312E3C69@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94505A90-6CC2-4895-B053-F57B59E5CE55@mac.com>

I couldn?t find an installer for 7.1. I?ve kept an iPad at 6 because I was still building for that OS. Now I want to build 7.1 and up, so I had a machine to test on? anyway, thanks for your response.

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Colin Holgate <colinholgate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> iPad 1 could only go to 5.1.1, so if you?re on iOS 6, I think whatever iPad you have can be updated to iOS 9. If you only want to update to 7.1 I?m not sure where you would get that. One possible problem is that Apple would stop signing out of date versions, which would mean that if you found the installer it may still not work.
> 
> 
>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Randy Hengst <iowahengst at mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I?ve been searching the list archives and the Apple developer portal, but haven?t found an answer?.
>> 
>> Is it possible to update an iPad from iOS 6.x to iOS 7.1? 
>> 
>> be well,
>> randy
>> 
>> Randy Hengst
>> www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Mar 20 19:45:02 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:45:02 -0700
Subject: Typography for Mobile -- Best Practices Guidance
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56ef225f.31a18ae7.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56ef225f.31a18ae7.44ae@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <1AAE8B49-630F-4E1B-B4B8-A7135625FC19@tactilemedia.com>


> On Mar 20, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:


I'm not sure there are best practices at this point, but here are a few responses, FWIW.


> 1) Assuming we want to avoid loading fonts into LC

Why?  This the only way to display non-resident fonts on a device/system.


> If we use the Droid family... is that available  on iOS?  if so, how do you specify that so that it is not substituted for Roboto on Android (the Droid font is so much better looking)

There are Droid and Roboto fonts on the net in TTF format that can be installed (see above).  My understanding is the Droid font is available on all Android systems; according to Wikipedia, Roboto was introduced in v4 (IceCream Sandwich). Also note that a new (improved?) version of Roboto was introduced in v5.

FYI, Helvetica Neue has been the default on iOS for some time, until Apple introduced San Francisco with iOS 9 and El Capitan.

I find the easiest way to universally assign fonts is to set the textFont of the stack to the desired font name, and change individual controls where needed. As long as controls don't have a font name assigned, they should inherit the stack setting.

Note that on iOS font names are case sensitive and rely on the PostScript names of fonts which may differ from the file names. You can use a font management app or font inspector to view the details of font to determine if it has a different PostScript name.  If it does, and the name differs beyond just upper/lowercase file naming, you'll need to use a font map file (simple text file) to establish font name equivalents on a device.

> If not, what can we use that will
> 
> a) work on Mac Desktop

See above.


> b) work the same on iOS (I'm having trouble there myself with a font that is huge on the desktop and smaller on the iPHone -- as if the metrics were completely different, even though I'm working in 736 X 414 px in both platforms)

One issue I haven't yet resolved is how to handle the font size of a native field when a stack is scaled using fullScreenMode.  In my experience, the font size of a native field doesn't auto-scale, while in most cases the font size of standard LiveCode controls (fields and buttons) does.

Also note that as of 7.1.3, custom-installed fonts on iOS will only render correctly in the iPhone 4/5 simulators, and will display incorrectly (or broken/missing, in the case of icon fonts) in the other simulators (bug #16733).  LiveCode has stated this fix is a low priority, however, the fonts will render correctly on a device.


> c) be substituted on Android, but still have the same look and feel?

If you're planning to use Android fonts on OS X and  iOS, why would you need to substitute on Android?


> 2) Were we to load a font in LC, are display results "robustly predictable" across all devices. Typically where one gets bitten is the line length  and or X heights/line heights  growsor shrink relative to the original design. If the design of a particular "module" mandates some precision on the formatted height of the field/label/visible name etc.  you are then in big trouble.

I would say you need to plan how your application is going to scale across devices: are you going to go with a fullScreenMode that proportionally scales the stack to fit the device screen, or are you going dynamically adjust your UI to scale to screen dimensions. Note how you're going to be displaying text: LiveCode fields or native fields, and test on several devices.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Tactile Media


From smudge.andy at googlemail.com  Mon Mar 21 03:03:14 2016
From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 00:03:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Finally made it into the App Store..
In-Reply-To: <CACjPeORdXc1-YxrR4c9SsSdpVoMOn=jbHKOQ2wR2jQjNjvcZRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACjPeORdXc1-YxrR4c9SsSdpVoMOn=jbHKOQ2wR2jQjNjvcZRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458543793543-4702465.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Todd,

Nice! I've successfully installed on a Huawei phone and ab Asus tablet, no
problems with the install all nice and smooth.

Great looking app, love the graphics...obviously do not understand all that
is going on.. but may have picked up a little Armenian! 

I thought the email to the parents was a great touch.

A big well done to you and the Team.



-----
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now:
Get Copy 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Finally-made-it-into-the-App-Store-tp4702374p4702465.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Mar 21 03:37:43 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 00:37:43 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Material Design Animated Buttons for tmControl2
Message-ID: <D314EF3B.7D1FE%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Now that tmControl2 has been updated along with controls for iOS, I'm
starting to look at Android.  This first release is a set of buttons that
incorporate the ripple effect used in Google's Material Design.

Get the full details here:
http://tmtools.tactilemedia.com/newsletter/material1_web.html

You can get more info about Material Design here:
https://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/introduction.html

Best Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design






From Neville.Smythe at optusnet.com.au  Mon Mar 21 05:37:34 2016
From: Neville.Smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:37:34 +1100
Subject: icons for standalones
Message-ID: <3A72AC90-7355-4646-81AB-E86A5AD3FF53@optusnet.com.au>

The standalone application settings allow one to set a single application icon for MacOS and Windows.
Is there any documentation on how to instal a full suite of icons (i.e. all recommended sizes) for both platforms? As a Mac user I presume one can just add icons to Standalone.icns, but I don?t know about Windows, and in any case should this not be handled by LiveCode?


From elanor at livecode.com  Mon Mar 21 06:31:39 2016
From: elanor at livecode.com (elanor at livecode.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 10:31:39 -0000
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <56EDA1F0.6070107@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <B78B29A8-366A-48D6-8295-035A27982009@id.uzh.ch><56EBDE75.2090906@livecode.com><1458311052314-4702343.post@n4.nabble.com><56EC6A01.8070703@hyperactivesw.com><1458333192146-4702359.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56EDA1F0.6070107@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1F28B5B57A7943CBA4F2FA218569647D@ElanorPC>

Hi all

The Sample Stacks link was inadvertently changed during the refactoring of 
the Menu Bar code for DP 3, but no-one noticed it until now, thanks for 
reporting this.

I have added an issue to the Quality Center and we will be reinstating the 
Sample Stack browser, ensuring it opens from the Menu Bar and Start Center.

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17192

Thanks

Elanor

-----Original Message----- 
From: J. Landman Gay
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 7:01 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?

I'm not sure, I didn't try it. You could start without it and if it
doesn't work, move the library too.

On 3/18/2016 3:33 PM, -hh wrote:
> I didn't look into the scripts. There is another stack "revonlinelibrary".
> Is it also needed and then found?
>
>
> J. Landman Gay wrote
>> On 3/18/2016 9:24 AM, -hh wrote:
>>> I prefer also the "old" stack (of Elanor?), so I use on LC 8 the
>>> following, what is at least 10 times faster than 'livecodeshare'.
>>>
>>> on mouseUp
>>>     put specialFolderPath("engine") into p
>>>     set itemdel to slash
>>>     put "Tools/Toolset/palettes/revonline.rev" into last item of p
>>>     set itemdel to comma
>>>     palette stack p
>>> end mouseUp
>>
>> It might be easier to just copy it into your user Plugins folder, where
>> it would load on every startup.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




From rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch  Mon Mar 21 07:14:00 2016
From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 12:14:00 +0100
Subject: Sample Stacks Stack in Livecode 8 - Gone ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1694.1458454200.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1694.1458454200.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F5127300-3590-45DF-AF45-0A43FD2257D9@id.uzh.ch>

> Am 20.03.2016 um 07:10 schrieb Richard Gaskin:
> 
> For the short term I believe the best solution *might* be to put 
> RevOnline back in place as it's been for years.  But I say "might" 
> because I don't know the reasoning behind it, and "why" is always 
> critically important to learn when questioning a "what".



I agree 100 %, I hope the RevOnlineStack will return immediately, and if not,
then please let us know - why not !


-> Mothership please answer ?


I believe RevOnline is a great tool/database, because it is not regulated by
LiveCode in any way, but was and is a community driven repository of interesting stacks
and plugins !

Let the mothership develop a better LiveCode, and let us contribute and show
stacks to others :-).


Cheers
Rolf

PS: To the Mothership, if you remove or change features (RevOnlineStack) from
any LiveCode App then please Include this info also in the release notes :-).






From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon Mar 21 08:49:46 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 13:49:46 +0100
Subject: icons for standalones
In-Reply-To: <3A72AC90-7355-4646-81AB-E86A5AD3FF53@optusnet.com.au>
References: <3A72AC90-7355-4646-81AB-E86A5AD3FF53@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <E3B7D960-4DD7-4052-AA5F-86872906D761@m-r-d.de>

Neville,

a Windows .ico file can contain one or more icons for several resolutions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICO_(file_format) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICO_(file_format)>

Matthias


Matthias Rebbe
Bramkampsieke 13
32312 L?bbecke
Tel	+49 5741 310000
    	+49 160 5504462
Fax: +49 5741 310002
eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de <mailto:matthias at m-r-d.de>

BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/portfolio/produkte/brx/>
> Am 21.03.2016 um 10:37 schrieb Neville Smythe <Neville.Smythe at optusnet.com.au <mailto:Neville.Smythe at optusnet.com.au>>:
> 
> The standalone application settings allow one to set a single application icon for MacOS and Windows.
> Is there any documentation on how to instal a full suite of icons (i.e. all recommended sizes) for both platforms? As a Mac user I presume one can just add icons to Standalone.icns, but I don?t know about Windows, and in any case should this not be handled by LiveCode?
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From james at thehales.id.au  Mon Mar 21 09:04:12 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 00:04:12 +1100
Subject: Ah,
	the power of regex - was: using the SHELL function to GREP a body of
	text 
Message-ID: <9E4C6B5A-092D-4F62-BA84-C746AD065997@thehales.id.au>

Recently I asked about using the shell function to access back reference feature of REGEX that I thought I needed to parse an aspect of HTML/XHTML files.
Given the response I thought about it some more and realised that the "matchchunk" function with multiple search expressions could, with the aid of some livescript do what I wanted.

In the process I discovered how picky the LC parser is about what you try to tell it is REGEX.
I also discovered the wonderful RegEx builder plugin by F Rinaldi.
Rather than type my working regexs into the script editor I found that entering them into (NOT PASTING) the RegEx builder plugin allowed me to use it, to construct and insert the correctly formed "matchchunk" script snippet.

Buoyed by my success I was then able to construct a sequence of matchchunk expressions to reveal anchor text of interest.
So far I have discovered that far from the simple

<a id="an_anchor"></a>

form I was familiar with, the ePubs I was looking at also used

<a id="an_anchor" />  -- this required converting from the XHTML form to the HTML form.
<a name="an_anchor"></a>    --??!!
<p id="an_anchor">
<HX id="an_anchor"> ('X' being an integer)

There are probably more variants (one text I am using has a ID attribute in every tag!) but none so far that are actually being used as actual anchors.

I then wrote a cascading set of 'if then else" statements and was able to use various matchunks to correctly expose all the anchors of interest.

While working on this in the early hours of the morning here in Oz, Thierry Douez contacted me and offered to have a look at what I wanted saying that although parsing a complete HTML file is indeed a fool's errand (my words, not his) parsing particular snippets is not.

I sent Thierry details of my requirements and the code I had written.

He sent me back a stack to compare his version.

Thierry was able to collapse my nested matchchunks that relied on multiple search expressions within each one to a single matchchunk using a single REGEX search expression. It was also 30% faster.
Of particular note, the REGEX used some options which struck me a really useful such as allowing spaces in the expression to be ignored (great for not getting lost), parenthesizing parts of the expression without them being counted as a distinct 'found' string and the ability to operate a broken line (ie has aline break in the middle of the desired text string.)

for those interested in the actual REGEX

 "(?msxi) ( < (?: [ap] | h[1-6] )\b  .*? \b (?:id|name)=theTextID   [^>]*  > (?: </a>)? )"



James





From peter.brett at livecode.com  Mon Mar 21 12:02:24 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:02:24 +0000
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 25
Message-ID: <56F01B10.8040708@livecode.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source 
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

     Read issue #25 here: https://goo.gl/R5UnfL


This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been 
going on in and around the open source project.  New issues will be 
released weekly on Mondays.  We have a dedicated mailing list that will 
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition? 
Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode"!

                                      Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 21 15:18:26 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:18:26 +0200
Subject: Jerky Animated Graphics
Message-ID: <56F04902.1030404@gmail.com>

I have been messing around with what are, frankly, extremely simplistic, 
experiments in animating
polygon graphics.

However, as I change the vertices of a graphic the thing won't stay 
still but keeps moving its centre,
so I have to keep reseting its left side. As a result while the 
animation is running the whole thing looks
like a horrible, jerky film from about 1880, which, while charming in 
its own way is not what I am
aiming at: a smooth, flowing animation.

I would be most grateful for any ideas on how to achieve that smoothness 
of motion.

Images and stack here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26858

Richmond.



From t.heaford at icloud.com  Mon Mar 21 15:36:07 2016
From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 19:36:07 +0000
Subject: Jerky Animated Graphics
In-Reply-To: <56F04902.1030404@gmail.com>
References: <56F04902.1030404@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65900C0B-C650-411D-B78F-38F778480EE6@icloud.com>

Just added lock screen and unlock screen


on mouseUp
   put fld "VERTS" into fld "VERTS2"
   put fld "VERTS" into fld "VERTS3"
   put 2 into STRETCH
   repeat until STRETCH > 300
      lock screen
      put (360 + STRETCH),310 into line 3 of fld "VERTS2"
      put (360 - STRETCH),10 into line 4 of fld "VERTS2"
      ----
      put (360 - STRETCH),310 into line 3 of fld "VERTS3"
      put (360 + STRETCH),10 into line 2 of fld "VERTS3"
       put (360 + STRETCH),10 into line 4 of fld "VERTS3"
      set the relativePoints of graphic "GG" to fld "VERTS2"
      set the relativePoints of graphic "GG2" to fld "VERTS3"
   set the left of graphic "GG" to 50
   set the top of graphic "GG" to 10
   set the left of graphic "GG2" to 50
   set the top of graphic "GG2" to 10
   add 2 to STRETCH
   unlock screen
   --wait 2 ticks
   end repeat
end mouseUp

All the best

Terry


> On 21 Mar 2016, at 19:18, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have been messing around with what are, frankly, extremely simplistic, experiments in animating
> polygon graphics.
> 
> However, as I change the vertices of a graphic the thing won't stay still but keeps moving its centre,
> so I have to keep reseting its left side. As a result while the animation is running the whole thing looks
> like a horrible, jerky film from about 1880, which, while charming in its own way is not what I am
> aiming at: a smooth, flowing animation.
> 
> I would be most grateful for any ideas on how to achieve that smoothness of motion.
> 
> Images and stack here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26858
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 21 15:44:26 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:44:26 +0200
Subject: Jerky Animated Graphics
In-Reply-To: <65900C0B-C650-411D-B78F-38F778480EE6@icloud.com>
References: <56F04902.1030404@gmail.com>
	<65900C0B-C650-411D-B78F-38F778480EE6@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <56F04F1A.8090104@gmail.com>

Thank you very much: I have experimented with 'lock screen', but, obviously,
in the wrong places in the script.

Richmond.

On 21.03.2016 21:36, Terence Heaford wrote:
> Just added lock screen and unlock screen
>
>
> on mouseUp
>     put fld "VERTS" into fld "VERTS2"
>     put fld "VERTS" into fld "VERTS3"
>     put 2 into STRETCH
>     repeat until STRETCH > 300
>        lock screen
>        put (360 + STRETCH),310 into line 3 of fld "VERTS2"
>        put (360 - STRETCH),10 into line 4 of fld "VERTS2"
>        ----
>        put (360 - STRETCH),310 into line 3 of fld "VERTS3"
>        put (360 + STRETCH),10 into line 2 of fld "VERTS3"
>         put (360 + STRETCH),10 into line 4 of fld "VERTS3"
>        set the relativePoints of graphic "GG" to fld "VERTS2"
>        set the relativePoints of graphic "GG2" to fld "VERTS3"
>     set the left of graphic "GG" to 50
>     set the top of graphic "GG" to 10
>     set the left of graphic "GG2" to 50
>     set the top of graphic "GG2" to 10
>     add 2 to STRETCH
>     unlock screen
>     --wait 2 ticks
>     end repeat
> end mouseUp
>
> All the best
>
> Terry
>
>
>> On 21 Mar 2016, at 19:18, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have been messing around with what are, frankly, extremely simplistic, experiments in animating
>> polygon graphics.
>>
>> However, as I change the vertices of a graphic the thing won't stay still but keeps moving its centre,
>> so I have to keep reseting its left side. As a result while the animation is running the whole thing looks
>> like a horrible, jerky film from about 1880, which, while charming in its own way is not what I am
>> aiming at: a smooth, flowing animation.
>>
>> I would be most grateful for any ideas on how to achieve that smoothness of motion.
>>
>> Images and stack here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26858
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Mon Mar 21 16:24:10 2016
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:24:10 +0100
Subject: Suddenly : linking for arm failed
Message-ID: <AC7483D4-BD81-44A6-AA40-A8A9521BEAB1@laposte.net>

Hello,

This evening, i compile a standalone for the app store. It?s work.
I realized i forgot a little script
so i made my change on the stack and recompile.
And i got this error message :
Linkinng for arm(arm64) failed with id: warning: object file ([?]/device-9_2/standalone) was built for newer iOS version (9.2) than being linked (7.0) 
object file ([?]/revdb  was built for newer iOS version (9.2) than being linked (7.0) 
object file ([?]/revzip  was built for newer iOS version (9.2) than being linked (7.0) 
object file ([?]/dbsqlite  was built for newer iOS version (9.2) than being linked (7.0) 


I quit Livecode and reopen my stack and compile without problem?

Strange, no ?


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 21 17:12:46 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 23:12:46 +0200
Subject: Give somebody something good, and they demand more.
Message-ID: <56F063CE.8020005@gmail.com>

Well, as the Livecode 8 revTools stack can be set to be thin, normal or 
fat [and that is really nice],
I suppose it shouldn't be that difficult for the Livecode folk to allow 
us to choose the order we want
the sections to be displayed in.

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785&p=139953#p139953

Richmond.



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Mar 21 17:51:30 2016
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:51:30 +0000
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com>

On 20/03/2016 10:56, Roland Huettmann wrote:
> There is no way of just opening and reading such last file into memory, at
> least not on my computer with limited RAM. Usual text processors also do
> not open such large files. LiveCode simply does not read such file and "it"
> remains empty. (There should be an error message in "the result" though.)

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2772

bah!

Ben



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Mar 21 19:03:08 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:03:08 -0700
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com>
References: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>

Ben Rubinstein wrote:
> On 20/03/2016 10:56, Roland Huettmann wrote:
>> There is no way of just opening and reading such last file into memory, at
>> least not on my computer with limited RAM. Usual text processors also do
>> not open such large files. LiveCode simply does not read such file and "it"
>> remains empty. (There should be an error message in "the result" though.)
>
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2772

That's a useful enhancement request, for making sure LC degrades 
gracefully in low-memory situations.

But that seems different from what Roland was asking about.  He needs to 
work with a 38GB file, beyond the memory address space of LC, and 
impractical for many programs.

When faced with a file that large most apps will read it in chunks, and 
as of several versions ago LC can do this gracefully:  "seek" and "read 
at" were enhanced to allow locations as large as the host file system 
permits.  With this we can traverse files far bigger than would be 
practical in RAM.
<http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11828>

Oddly enough, when I was experimenting with chunked reading I started 
with 10 MB chunks, thinking the less I touched the disk the better.  But 
I found my routines got faster as I tried smaller reads, all the way 
down to about 130k where the comparison leveled off.  Apparently memcopy 
is not with its own overhead.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From hh at livecode.org  Mon Mar 21 19:12:33 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:12:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458601953554-4702480.post@n4.nabble.com>

Why don't you use a professional eMail client?
For example Thunderbird?

https://backupify.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203099108-How-to-view-Gmail-Exports-locally-on-your-computer



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-parser-for-Email-MIME-tp4702407p4702480.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From peterwawood at gmail.com  Mon Mar 21 19:49:09 2016
From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 07:49:09 +0800
Subject: Would love to see this blog with 1,001 Uses stay FRESH
In-Reply-To: <CAGV_Z3BFzv=oJ63HW_-f8=8N2RAj_fP8vWrX3u6DkLDQESPsLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV_Z3BFzv=oJ63HW_-f8=8N2RAj_fP8vWrX3u6DkLDQESPsLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <255D4449-6C33-46F3-9915-70E3E8AC7775@gmail.com>

Mark 

There are two problems with keeping the blog fresh. The first is that people are not submitting possible entries. The second is that I don?t have the time to actively maintain it. I?m not sure which of these is the chicken and which is the  egg.

If somebody has the time and motivation to take over the site, I would gladly pass it over to them.

Regards

Peter

> On 16 Mar 2016, at 21:20, Mark Rauterkus <mark.rauterkus at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> http://livecode1001.blogspot.com/
> 
> This is a great resource. I would LOVE to see it stay FRESH. A couple posts
> a month would be fine. I wanted to turn people onto LiveCode -- and seeing
> that with a most recent post from October 2015 is getting dated. Only two
> were posted in 2015.
> 
> Cheering from the distance!!!!
> 
> Can new energy be gathered?
> 
> 
> --
> Ta.
> 
> 
> Mark Rauterkus       Mark at Rauterkus.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alex at harryscollar.com  Mon Mar 21 22:17:57 2016
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:17:57 +1000
Subject: URGENT: emails being rejected
Message-ID: <56F0AB55.2080009@harryscollar.com>

Hi

Our on-rev site is on jasmine.on-rev.com (50.28.38.70).

Recently, I have had quite a few emails bounce back and rejected by 
recipients, that prior to the on-rev server upgrades accepted emails ok.

Today I noticed on one of the rejected emails..

SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO: xxxx
     550-delivery from 50.28.38.70 is rejected. Check at
     550-http://www.commtouch.com/Site/Resources/Check_IP_Reputation.asp. Reference
     550 code:tid=0001.0A090302.56F0A528.00EE

"whois 50.28.38.70" returned details related to the new Liquid Web servers.

I plugged the same IP address into the above mentioned site.. 
http://www.commtouch.com/Site/Resources/Check_IP_Reputation.asp

.. and it returned the following information:

IP Query Result:
IP Address:     50.28.38.70
Risk Level:     High Risk
Description:     This IP address is used for sending Spam on a regular basis

Is anyone else experiencing this?

Can this issue be resolved?

regards
alex




From rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net  Mon Mar 21 23:07:42 2016
From: rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 23:07:42 -0400
Subject: URGENT: emails being rejected
Message-ID: <5odd6gf4m8fvvfl2wlv7r4eq.1458616062487@email.android.com>

I had that problem on diesel. David fixed it in a couple hours. Submit an emergency request support ticket to on-rev support. If you don't have one ?I advise you get a dedicated IP. Then you don't have to worry about other users spam putting jasmine on a black list.


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services



<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Alex Shaw <alex at harryscollar.com> </div><div>Date:03/21/2016  22:17  (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: On Rev Support <on-rev at runrev.com>,use-livecode at lists.runrev.com </div><div>Subject: URGENT: emails being rejected </div><div>
</div>Hi

Our on-rev site is on jasmine.on-rev.com (50.28.38.70).

Recently, I have had quite a few emails bounce back and rejected by 
recipients, that prior to the on-rev server upgrades accepted emails ok.

Today I noticed on one of the rejected emails..

SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO: xxxx
     550-delivery from 50.28.38.70 is rejected. Check at
     550-http://www.commtouch.com/Site/Resources/Check_IP_Reputation.asp. Reference
     550 code:tid=0001.0A090302.56F0A528.00EE

"whois 50.28.38.70" returned details related to the new Liquid Web servers.

I plugged the same IP address into the above mentioned site.. 
http://www.commtouch.com/Site/Resources/Check_IP_Reputation.asp

.. and it returned the following information:

IP Query Result:
IP Address:     50.28.38.70
Risk Level:     High Risk
Description:     This IP address is used for sending Spam on a regular basis

Is anyone else experiencing this?

Can this issue be resolved?

regards
alex


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From revdev at pdslabs.net  Mon Mar 21 23:18:18 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:18:18 -0700
Subject: will a data grid handle RTL text?
Message-ID: <56F0B97A.1060902@pdslabs.net>

Like the subject says....

I'm updating a desktop app in LC 7.x and will probably need to display 
Arabic (or other right-to-left) text in a data grid before long. I 
haven't tried it yet. Any predictions? Will it work?

I expect I'll ultimately need Arabic display in both tables and forms if 
that makes any difference.

Thanks -

-- 
Phil Davis




From alex at harryscollar.com  Tue Mar 22 00:08:15 2016
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:08:15 +1000
Subject: URGENT: emails being rejected
In-Reply-To: <5odd6gf4m8fvvfl2wlv7r4eq.1458616062487@email.android.com>
References: <5odd6gf4m8fvvfl2wlv7r4eq.1458616062487@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <56F0C52F.5090008@harryscollar.com>

Yes, potentially a problem with any shared hosting service.

I guess I am trying to avoid any more service disruption but so far the 
amalgamation with Liquid Web has improved speed and access to web and email.

Heather and David have always been very helpful.

regards
alex

On 22/03/2016 1:07 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote:
> I had that problem on diesel. David fixed it in a couple hours. Submit an emergency request support ticket to on-rev support. If you don't have one  I advise you get a dedicated IP. Then you don't have to worry about other users spam putting jasmine on a black list.
>
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
>
>
>
> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Alex Shaw <alex at harryscollar.com> </div><div>Date:03/21/2016  22:17  (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: On Rev Support <on-rev at runrev.com>,use-livecode at lists.runrev.com </div><div>Subject: URGENT: emails being rejected </div><div>
> </div>Hi
>
> Our on-rev site is on jasmine.on-rev.com (50.28.38.70).
>
> Recently, I have had quite a few emails bounce back and rejected by
> recipients, that prior to the on-rev server upgrades accepted emails ok.
>
> Today I noticed on one of the rejected emails..
>
> SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO: xxxx
>       550-delivery from 50.28.38.70 is rejected. Check at
>       550-http://www.commtouch.com/Site/Resources/Check_IP_Reputation.asp. Reference
>       550 code:tid=0001.0A090302.56F0A528.00EE
>
> "whois 50.28.38.70" returned details related to the new Liquid Web servers.
>
> I plugged the same IP address into the above mentioned site..
> http://www.commtouch.com/Site/Resources/Check_IP_Reputation.asp
>
> .. and it returned the following information:
>
> IP Query Result:
> IP Address:     50.28.38.70
> Risk Level:     High Risk
> Description:     This IP address is used for sending Spam on a regular basis
>
> Is anyone else experiencing this?
>
> Can this issue be resolved?
>
> regards
> alex
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From smudge.andy at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 22 02:59:48 2016
From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 23:59:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Would love to see this blog with 1,001 Uses stay FRESH
In-Reply-To: <255D4449-6C33-46F3-9915-70E3E8AC7775@gmail.com>
References: <CAGV_Z3BFzv=oJ63HW_-f8=8N2RAj_fP8vWrX3u6DkLDQESPsLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<255D4449-6C33-46F3-9915-70E3E8AC7775@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458629988149-4702486.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Mark,

I'm sure we all appreciate the work and time you have put into this blog..
Thank you.

It would be great it LiveCode themselves could take this over it's gives
great examples of what can be achieved with LiveCode.

Failing this I'm now have more time available and would be happy to take
over or help out.



-----
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now:
Get Copy 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Would-love-to-see-this-blog-with-1-001-Uses-stay-FRESH-tp4702260p4702486.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar 22 04:02:06 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 08:02:06 +0000
Subject: Give somebody something good, and they demand more.
In-Reply-To: <56F063CE.8020005@gmail.com>
References: <56F063CE.8020005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA84798A-4F5A-4EEF-B89F-4D6028E35451@livecode.com>

The general plan is to allow the tools palette to be more configurable in the future. As the number of widgets available to be installed grows, there will need to be an effective way for users to manage that.

The first step was generalising the tools palette to display a dynamic quantity of tools. The next step will be to allow rearrangement - that won't be in 8.0 though.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 Mar 2016, at 21:12, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, as the Livecode 8 revTools stack can be set to be thin, normal or fat [and that is really nice],
> I suppose it shouldn't be that difficult for the Livecode folk to allow us to choose the order we want
> the sections to be displayed in.
> 
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785&p=139953#p139953
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar 22 06:17:34 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 10:17:34 +0000
Subject: Give somebody something good, and they demand more.
In-Reply-To: <56F063CE.8020005@gmail.com>
References: <56F063CE.8020005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F11BBE.30802@livecode.com>



On 21/03/2016 21:12, RM wrote:
> Well, as the Livecode 8 revTools stack can be set to be thin, normal or
> fat [and that is really nice],
> I suppose it shouldn't be that difficult for the Livecode folk to allow
> us to choose the order we want
> the sections to be displayed in.
>
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785&p=139953#p139953

I think the new tools palette is 100% implemented using script-only 
stacks so it should be easy to implement it yourself and submit a pull 
request!

                              Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 06:18:23 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:18:23 +0200
Subject: Give somebody something good, and they demand more.
In-Reply-To: <DA84798A-4F5A-4EEF-B89F-4D6028E35451@livecode.com>
References: <56F063CE.8020005@gmail.com>
	<DA84798A-4F5A-4EEF-B89F-4D6028E35451@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F11BEF.1040202@gmail.com>

Great: something to look forward to!

That sounds really good.

Richmond.

On 22.03.2016 10:02, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> The general plan is to allow the tools palette to be more configurable in the future. As the number of widgets available to be installed grows, there will need to be an effective way for users to manage that.
>
> The first step was generalising the tools palette to display a dynamic quantity of tools. The next step will be to allow rearrangement - that won't be in 8.0 though.
>
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 21 Mar 2016, at 21:12, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, as the Livecode 8 revTools stack can be set to be thin, normal or fat [and that is really nice],
>> I suppose it shouldn't be that difficult for the Livecode folk to allow us to choose the order we want
>> the sections to be displayed in.
>>
>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785&p=139953#p139953
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 07:45:20 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:45:20 +0100
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <1458601953554-4702480.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1458601953554-4702480.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV_EWc=gc2yjH94LtFPS2K0wjA69TPBFj=1JFSkZ4oPUQg@mail.gmail.com>

*Reading very large files*
===================

I made some tests for my large file.

Using LCS it is not possible to know in advance the file size as it is not
possible to read the file into memory in one piece. It is possible though
to read the properties from a file using a Shell command. And one of the
properties is the size in bytes. This is my length: Size on
disk: 28'875'927'552 bytes.

It is not a problem to go to any position in the file reading from there -
as long as memory can take the read junk of the file.

How to know how much we can read into memory? Is there any function to know
this? Is there a size limit for variables?

But it is possible to retrieve chunks of data until eof when approaching
the file end. So, using "read from file fName at 28875927500 until eof" is
possible. 52 bytes are read.

It is not possible to read backwards - which could be a nice way reading a
file in some special cases. So "read from file fName at eof until -1000"
does not work.

So, the only way reading very large file is reading a chunk of data of n
bytes (whatever is allowed in memory), processing this, and then reading
the next chunk until the remaining part of the file is small enough to be
read until eof.

*Why not use Thunderbird or other mail clients?*
======================================

Well to answer the question regarding why not using another E-Mail client
such as Thunderbird, Eudora, or a pure mailbox reader such as "Free MBOX
File viewer"? I have them all. I tried them all.

I love LiveCode. That is the answer. Because I want to not just save data.
I want to be able to add annotations the way I want, I want to add tags,
make calculations, print selected lists of messages, and do calculations,
using statistics, increasing the usefulness of years of work. I am using
this to also write invoices to clients for work done listing all the
messages for a given task and project. My messages are also kind of work
reports and they give me an idea of what was done at what time and
occasion, because they are a "minute of meeting", take my "notes" etc.

I store a lot of information in messages, even ideas. It is my container
for data in many cases. And I transfer my Skype conversations to email, or
other data from my phone to Email.

The message format qualifies as the format for any activity and
communication. So, why not use it everywhere as a multi-purpose format?

But to organize messages it is not enough to sort and filter them by
keywords. And people use the Subject field not the way it is meant to be
used. Too often the Subject does not give an idea of what the messages
contain. It is just "carried over" from another message. That is awful, but
unavoidable. Threads organizing messages by keywords are also not useful
because people are simply not taking care of maintaining consistency in the
Subject field which organizes message threads. In other words: I introduce
a second Subject field to enter my keywords which are then correctly
identifying the content of the message (or messages). LiveCode is a way of
doing this, and of course using a database for storing.

So, I like to add and manipulate data which then can be filtered in a
correct way according to personal needs without the limitations all other
E-Mail readers or clients will allow.

My message system shall be more global, unified, including messages from
all kinds of devices and mail programs, even from social media, phone
conversations, etc. And I want to make use of data, not just storing and
backing up data.

Just storing is boring. )

The alternative would be using something like Python, but we are in
LiveCode not in Python, or a lower level language. But then - why do we use
LiveCode?

It want LiveCode to be my power horse for all such tasks and understand if
it really can fulfill such promises.

Roland

P.S:  Just now I do not know if we start using LCB in future, or continue
with LCS for such tasks which would qualify for developing a library in its
own right.








On 22 March 2016 at 00:12, -hh <hh at livecode.org> wrote:

> Why don't you use a professional eMail client?
> For example Thunderbird?
>
>
> https://backupify.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203099108-How-to-view-Gmail-Exports-locally-on-your-computer
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-parser-for-Email-MIME-tp4702407p4702480.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar 22 09:16:20 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:16:20 +0100
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV_EWc=gc2yjH94LtFPS2K0wjA69TPBFj=1JFSkZ4oPUQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1458601953554-4702480.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAH-=WV_EWc=gc2yjH94LtFPS2K0wjA69TPBFj=1JFSkZ4oPUQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-22 12:45, Roland Huettmann wrote:
> How to know how much we can read into memory? Is there any function to 
> know
> this? Is there a size limit for variables?

LiveCode has a limit of 2Gb characters for strings but that depends on 
how much memory a single process can have on your system.

On 32-bit systems, you're generally limited to 768Mb-1Gb contiguous 
block of memory (32-bit Windows has an address space of 3Gb for a user 
process which also has to include all mapped resources such as 
executables and shared libraries; Mac has a user process address space 
of 4Gb which also has to include all mapped resources so you can 
generally get up to around 1.5Gb contiguous allocated memory block).

On 64-bit systems then you should be able to many 2Gb strings (or 
similar in LiveCode), although obviously how fast they will operate will 
depend on the amount of physical ram in the machine - disk paged virtual 
memory taking up the slack).

> It is not possible to read backwards - which could be a nice way 
> reading a
> file in some special cases. So "read from file fName at eof until 
> -1000"
> does not work.

Well, reading backwards in that way is equivalent to knowing how long 
the file is:

    read ... at -1000 until EOF

is the same as

    read ... at (fileSize - 1000) until EOF

> So, the only way reading very large file is reading a chunk of data of 
> n
> bytes (whatever is allowed in memory), processing this, and then 
> reading
> the next chunk until the remaining part of the file is small enough to 
> be
> read until eof.

For such a large file (38gb) your only solution is to read and parse it 
in chunks. MBOX files are a sequence of records, so you need to use a 
process which reads in blocks from the file when there is not enough 
data left to find the current record boundary - that way you only load 
into memory (at any one time) enough of the file to process completely 
the next record.

In terms of finding the size of a file in LiveCode you can use 'the 
detailed files'.

It is worth pointing out that using 'open file' and 'read from file' are 
*stream* based in approach. From memory, the MBOX format is essentially 
line-based, so you should be able to write a relatively simple parsing 
loop with that in mind:

open file ...
repeat forever
   read from file ... until return
   if the result is not empty then
     exit repeat
   end if
   if *it is a new message boundary* then
     ... finish processing current message ...
     ... start processing new boundary ...
   else
     ... append line to current message ...
   end if
end repeat

Of course, one thing to bear in mind, is that with a 38Gb file you are 
never going to fit all of that into memory; so the best approach would 
probably be to parse your mail messages and then store them into a 
storage scheme which doesn't require everything to appear in memory at 
once - e.g. an sqlite db or a more traditional dbms, or even lots of 
discrete files in a filesystem in some suitable hierarchy.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 22 10:24:27 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 07:24:27 -0700
Subject: Buffer size (was Looking for parser for Email (MIME))
In-Reply-To: <82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>
References: <82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F1559B.1090901@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:

> open file ...
> repeat forever
>    read from file ... until return
>    if the result is not empty then
>      exit repeat
>    end if
>    if *it is a new message boundary* then
>      ... finish processing current message ...
>      ... start processing new boundary ...
>    else
>      ... append line to current message ...
>    end if
> end repeat

What is the size of the read buffer used when reading until <char>?

I'm assuming it isn't reading a single char per disk access, probably at 
least using the file system's block size, no?

I ask because some months ago I wrote a needed to parse a 6GB file and 
"read...until CR" was slower than I preferred so I experimented with a 
complicated routine that reads into a buffer of about 128k and then 
parses the buffer.

If I can turn up the code it may be mildly interesting, but the main 
question it raised for me was:

Given that the engine is probably already doing pretty much the same 
thing, would it make sense to consider a readBufferSize global property 
which would govern the size of the buffer the engine uses when executing 
"read...until <char>"?

In my experiments I was surprised to find that larger buffers (>10MB) 
were slower than "read...until <char>", but the sweet spot seemed to be 
around 128k.  Presumably this has to do with the overhead of allocating 
contiguous memory, and if you have any insights on that it would be 
interesting to learn more.

I recognize this sort of things may seem like mere performance 
fetishism, but I believe this has useful application for making LC an 
ever better solution for working with large amounts of data.

Pretty much any program will read big files in chunks, and if LC can do 
so optimally with all the grace and ease of "read...until <char>" it 
makes one more strong set of use cases where choosing LC isn't a 
tradeoff but an unquestionable advantage.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 10:36:39 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 15:36:39 +0100
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1458601953554-4702480.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAH-=WV_EWc=gc2yjH94LtFPS2K0wjA69TPBFj=1JFSkZ4oPUQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV9=duseQW_uNKyAF-+Hnof73F193R=LjKpTAhYHAQry_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mark,

Thank your for the explanation. It is very nice.

--- MBOX file format

Yes, as you also suggest, I am already reading MXBOX file in chunks which
are separated by a string CR & "From " as also defined for that file format.

So, it goes "read from file <filename> at <position> until <string>".

The only drawback is that at the end of the file there is no such string
and it needs another way of reading, but that is then possible

Another way, as you suggest, is reading line by line and checking for such
string value to separate messages. I just do not know yet what will be more
efficient in terms of speed. I will be testing.

--- Checking available physical memory (in RAM, not on disk)

Also a good way would be to check for available amount of *physical*
memory. This way one could limit chunks read into memory, and processing
would be pretty straight forward and fast when also knowing limitations of
the OS (32bit, 64bit, available RAM, etc... all you suggested).

Is there a function to know available physical memory in LiveCode? I could
not find yet.

--- Reading backwards in a file

--Well, reading backwards in that way is equivalent to knowing how long the
file is:
  -- read ... at -1000 until EOF
-- is the same as
 --   read ... at (fileSize - 1000) until EOF

With reading backwards I meant starting from EOF or any position and having
the pointer going backward char by char to whatever other previous
position. Syntax could be: "read from file <filename> at <position> down to
<position>". But I am not sure if there are many use cases for this.

--- Storing large number of messages

You are right with storing the retrieved messages in a database. It is the
best way. That is what I was preparing to do as it is obviously the only
solution which makes sense for such large amounts of data. And only then it
allows for all kinds of post-processing the easier way. I will be using
both, SQLite, and later a remote database system.

--- The detailed files

I was not aware about the "the detailed files" function. Something new I
learned. Again thank you. I checked the dictionary. It could be much more
explicit about such function. With "detailed". It only finds the keyword
"detailed." Searching for "detailed files" I finds nothing.

But I found something in the Forums with good explanation. Maybe it is
worth writing an enhancement request to document this function the
dictionary of LiveCode.

Cheers to all ), Roland









On 22 March 2016 at 14:16, Mark Waddingham <mark at livecode.com> wrote:

> On 2016-03-22 12:45, Roland Huettmann wrote:
>
>> How to know how much we can read into memory? Is there any function to
>> know
>> this? Is there a size limit for variables?
>>
>
> LiveCode has a limit of 2Gb characters for strings but that depends on how
> much memory a single process can have on your system.
>
> On 32-bit systems, you're generally limited to 768Mb-1Gb contiguous block
> of memory (32-bit Windows has an address space of 3Gb for a user process
> which also has to include all mapped resources such as executables and
> shared libraries; Mac has a user process address space of 4Gb which also
> has to include all mapped resources so you can generally get up to around
> 1.5Gb contiguous allocated memory block).
>
> On 64-bit systems then you should be able to many 2Gb strings (or similar
> in LiveCode), although obviously how fast they will operate will depend on
> the amount of physical ram in the machine - disk paged virtual memory
> taking up the slack).
>
> It is not possible to read backwards - which could be a nice way reading a
>> file in some special cases. So "read from file fName at eof until -1000"
>> does not work.
>>
>
> Well, reading backwards in that way is equivalent to knowing how long the
> file is:
>
>    read ... at -1000 until EOF
>
> is the same as
>
>    read ... at (fileSize - 1000) until EOF
>
> So, the only way reading very large file is reading a chunk of data of n
>> bytes (whatever is allowed in memory), processing this, and then reading
>> the next chunk until the remaining part of the file is small enough to be
>> read until eof.
>>
>
> For such a large file (38gb) your only solution is to read and parse it in
> chunks. MBOX files are a sequence of records, so you need to use a process
> which reads in blocks from the file when there is not enough data left to
> find the current record boundary - that way you only load into memory (at
> any one time) enough of the file to process completely the next record.
>
> In terms of finding the size of a file in LiveCode you can use 'the
> detailed files'.
>
> It is worth pointing out that using 'open file' and 'read from file' are
> *stream* based in approach. From memory, the MBOX format is essentially
> line-based, so you should be able to write a relatively simple parsing loop
> with that in mind:
>
> open file ...
> repeat forever
>   read from file ... until return
>   if the result is not empty then
>     exit repeat
>   end if
>   if *it is a new message boundary* then
>     ... finish processing current message ...
>     ... start processing new boundary ...
>   else
>     ... append line to current message ...
>   end if
> end repeat
>
> Of course, one thing to bear in mind, is that with a 38Gb file you are
> never going to fit all of that into memory; so the best approach would
> probably be to parse your mail messages and then store them into a storage
> scheme which doesn't require everything to appear in memory at once - e.g.
> an sqlite db or a more traditional dbms, or even lots of discrete files in
> a filesystem in some suitable hierarchy.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 22 10:44:12 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 07:44:12 -0700
Subject: Give somebody something good, and they demand more.
In-Reply-To: <56F11BBE.30802@livecode.com>
References: <56F11BBE.30802@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F15A3C.2030100@fourthworld.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote:
 > On 21/03/2016 21:12, RM wrote:
 >> Well, as the Livecode 8 revTools stack can be set to be thin, normal
 >> or fat [and that is really nice],
 >> I suppose it shouldn't be that difficult for the Livecode folk to
 >> allow us to choose the order we want the sections to be displayed in.
 >>
 >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785&p=139953#p139953
 >
 > I think the new tools palette is 100% implemented using script-only
 > stacks so it should be easy to implement it yourself and submit a
 > pull request!

But will a pull request be accepted?

Some guidance may be useful on pull requests so community members can 
anticipate when it will be in their interests to perform the work.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From hh at livecode.org  Tue Mar 22 10:35:07 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 07:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV9=duseQW_uNKyAF-+Hnof73F193R=LjKpTAhYHAQry_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1458601953554-4702480.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAH-=WV_EWc=gc2yjH94LtFPS2K0wjA69TPBFj=1JFSkZ4oPUQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>
	<CAH-=WV9=duseQW_uNKyAF-+Hnof73F193R=LjKpTAhYHAQry_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458657307390-4702495.post@n4.nabble.com>

> Roland H. wrote
> --- The detailed files
> 
> I was not aware about the "the detailed files" function. Something new I
> learned. Again thank you. I checked the dictionary. It could be much more
> explicit about such function. With "detailed". It only finds the keyword
> "detailed." Searching for "detailed files" I finds nothing.
> 
> But I found something in the Forums with good explanation. Maybe it is
> worth writing an enhancement request to document this function the
> dictionary of LiveCode.

Search for "files"? Very "detailed" there ;-)



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-parser-for-Email-MIME-tp4702407p4702495.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar 22 11:16:30 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 15:16:30 +0000
Subject: How to contribute [was: Give somebody something good, and they
	demand more.]
In-Reply-To: <56F15A3C.2030100@fourthworld.com>
References: <56F11BBE.30802@livecode.com> <56F15A3C.2030100@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56F161CE.4030002@livecode.com>



On 22/03/2016 14:44, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Peter TB Brett wrote:
>  > On 21/03/2016 21:12, RM wrote:
>  >> Well, as the Livecode 8 revTools stack can be set to be thin, normal
>  >> or fat [and that is really nice],
>  >> I suppose it shouldn't be that difficult for the Livecode folk to
>  >> allow us to choose the order we want the sections to be displayed in.
>  >>
>  >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785&p=139953#p139953
>  >
>  > I think the new tools palette is 100% implemented using script-only
>  > stacks so it should be easy to implement it yourself and submit a
>  > pull request!
>
> But will a pull request be accepted?
>
> Some guidance may be useful on pull requests so community members can
> anticipate when it will be in their interests to perform the work.

I agree!  Here's a list of steps you can take to make it more likely 
that your changes will be accepted.

0. Be willing to go away and learn things by yourself.  The core 
development team is very small and very busy and we won't necessarily 
have time to closely guide you through using normal development tools in 
the normal way.

1. Discuss your plans with someone on the core dev team before you start 
work.  You will eventually need to get someone who's on the dev team to 
merge your changes -- so it is _important_ to get one of us involved 
(and interested) as early as you possibly can!

2. Follow the coding style.  Make your code as clear and easy to read 
and understand as possible.  Name things carefully.

3. Make each change as small as possible.  It's far, far easier to get 
100 changes with 10 lines of code merged than it is to get a single 
1000-line change merged.

4. Spend time on writing your git log messages and your GitHub pull 
requests so that they really clearly describe the changes you've made 
and why you've made them.  This is a good guide: 
http://chris.beams.io/posts/git-commit/

5. Be prepared to revise your changes.  We want to help you get your 
changes committed, but they will need to fit in properly with the things 
that we're trying to achieve.

I hope that helps.  As usual, if anyone has any questions at all about 
contributing to LiveCode open source I'm happy to answer questions, or 
organise a Skype call.

                                          Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Mar 22 11:02:44 2016
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 15:02:44 +0000
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>
References: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com> <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56F15E94.1010606@cogapp.com>

On 21/03/2016 23:03, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Ben Rubinstein wrote:
>> On 20/03/2016 10:56, Roland Huettmann wrote:
>>> There is no way of just opening and reading such last file into memory, at
>>> least not on my computer with limited RAM. Usual text processors also do
>>> not open such large files. LiveCode simply does not read such file and "it"
>>> remains empty. (There should be an error message in "the result" though.)
>>
>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2772
>
> That's a useful enhancement request, for making sure LC degrades gracefully in
> low-memory situations.
>
> But that seems different from what Roland was asking about.

Absolutely - I was responding narrowly to the particular point from Roland's 
email which I quoted: namely that LiveCode should return an error message when 
it fails to read a file because it doesn't have enough memory, rather than 
returning exactly the same results as it would for an empty file... which is 
what the cited RQCC report has been complaining about for at least seven years.

Ben





From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar 22 11:22:42 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 15:22:42 +0000
Subject: How to contribute [was: Give somebody something good, and they
	demand more.]
In-Reply-To: <56F161CE.4030002@livecode.com>
References: <56F11BBE.30802@livecode.com> <56F15A3C.2030100@fourthworld.com>
	<56F161CE.4030002@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F16342.9020103@livecode.com>

On 22/03/2016 15:16, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 22/03/2016 14:44, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Peter TB Brett wrote:
>>  > On 21/03/2016 21:12, RM wrote:
>>  >> Well, as the Livecode 8 revTools stack can be set to be thin, normal
>>  >> or fat [and that is really nice],
>>  >> I suppose it shouldn't be that difficult for the Livecode folk to
>>  >> allow us to choose the order we want the sections to be displayed in.
>>  >>
>>  >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26785&p=139953#p139953
>>  >
>>  > I think the new tools palette is 100% implemented using script-only
>>  > stacks so it should be easy to implement it yourself and submit a
>>  > pull request!
>>
>> But will a pull request be accepted?
>>
>> Some guidance may be useful on pull requests so community members can
>> anticipate when it will be in their interests to perform the work.
>
> I agree!  Here's a list of steps you can take to make it more likely
> that your changes will be accepted.
>
> 0. Be willing to go away and learn things by yourself.  The core
> development team is very small and very busy and we won't necessarily
> have time to closely guide you through using normal development tools in
> the normal way.

Having said that, it's worth noting that the core dev team will do our 
best to find time to help you when you get stuck, and to point you in 
the direction of helpful and relevant reference materials whenever 
feasible.  We'll never tell you to "RTFM, noob"!

                                       Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 11:33:45 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 16:33:45 +0100
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <56F15E94.1010606@cogapp.com>
References: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com> <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>
	<56F15E94.1010606@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV-_pmLwzPkrrvvETj8Y+h6cWV-evvtQpGbYhiA3oWqTYw@mail.gmail.com>

Re: HH:

"Search for "files"? Very "detailed" there ;-)"

Stupid me !

I was searching for "file", "detailed file", "detailed files". But I was
not searching for "files". And "files" is listed searching for "file", but
I would not have thought about that this function would be available in
"files" listing the details of all the files in the given folder.

Anyway, I would appreciate a function giving the same pointing at just one
selected file (not files). I will use my custom function doing that.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 22 11:39:09 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 08:39:09 -0700
Subject: Would love to see this blog with 1,001 Uses stay FRESH
In-Reply-To: <255D4449-6C33-46F3-9915-70E3E8AC7775@gmail.com>
References: <255D4449-6C33-46F3-9915-70E3E8AC7775@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F1671D.8000702@fourthworld.com>

Peter W A Wood wrote:

 >> On 16 Mar 2016, at 21:20, Mark Rauterkus wrote:
 >>
 >> http://livecode1001.blogspot.com/
 >>
 >> This is a great resource. I would LOVE to see it stay FRESH. A
 >> couple posts a month would be fine. I wanted to turn people onto
 >> LiveCode -- and seeing that with a most recent post from October
 >> 2015 is getting dated. Only two were posted in 2015.
 >>
 >> Cheering from the distance!!!!
 >>
 >> Can new energy be gathered?
 >
 > There are two problems with keeping the blog fresh. The first is that
 > people are not submitting possible entries. The second is that I
 > don?t have the time to actively maintain it. I?m not sure which of
 > these is the chicken and which is the egg.
 >
 > If somebody has the time and motivation to take over the site, I
 > would gladly pass it over to them.

What is the process for submitting entries there?

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
____________________________________________________________________
Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com





From ckelly5430 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 12:07:40 2016
From: ckelly5430 at gmail.com (Colin Kelly)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 16:07:40 +0000
Subject: Exchange 365 RESTful API
Message-ID: <BFBD0FDD-3CCF-4046-8311-AD4658FF263B@gmail.com>

Has anyone successfully sent any email messages using Microsoft?s RESTful API for their exchange 365 service?

? 
Colin Kelly





>




From mark at livecode.com  Tue Mar 22 12:09:36 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 17:09:36 +0100
Subject: Buffer size (was Looking for parser for Email (MIME))
In-Reply-To: <56F1559B.1090901@fourthworld.com>
References: <82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>
	<56F1559B.1090901@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ab59d66e8f91c405317dbb9bf233858c@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-22 15:24, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> What is the size of the read buffer used when reading until <char>?
> 
> I'm assuming it isn't reading a single char per disk access, probably
> at least using the file system's block size, no?

Well, the engine will memory map files if it can (if there is available 
address space) so for smaller (sub 1Gb) files they are essentially all 
buffered. For larger files, the engine uses the stdio FILE abstraction 
so will get buffering from that.

> Given that the engine is probably already doing pretty much the same
> thing, would it make sense to consider a readBufferSize global
> property which would govern the size of the buffer the engine uses
> when executing "read...until <char>"?

Perhaps - the read until routines could potentially be made more 
efficient. For some streams, buffering is inappropriate unless 
explicitly stated (which isn't an option at the moment). For example, 
for serial port streams and process streams you don't want to read any 
more than you absolutely need to as the other end can block if you ask 
it for more data than it has available. At the moment the engine favours 
the 'do not read any more than absolutely necessary' approach as the 
serial/file/process stream processing code is the same.

> In my experiments I was surprised to find that larger buffers (>10MB)
> were slower than "read...until <char>", but the sweet spot seemed to
> be around 128k.  Presumably this has to do with the overhead of
> allocating contiguous memory, and if you have any insights on that it
> would be interesting to learn more.

My original reasoning on this was a 'working set' argument. Modern CPUs 
heavily rely on various levels of memory cache, access getting more 
expensive as the cache is further away from the processor. If you use a 
reasonable sized buffer to implement processing in a stream fashion, 
then the working set is essentially just that buffer which means less 
movement of blocks of memory from physical memory to/from the processors 
levels of cache.

However, having chatted to Fraser, he pointed out that Linux tends to 
have a file read ahead of 64kb-128kb 'builtin'. This means that the OS 
will proactively prefetch the next 64-128kb of data after it has 
finished fetching the one you have asked for. The result is that data is 
being read from disk by the OS whilst your processing code is running 
meaning that things get done quicker. (In contrast, if you have a 10Mb 
buffer then you have to wait to read 10Mb before you can do anything 
with it, and then do that again when the buffer is empty).

> Pretty much any program will read big files in chunks, and if LC can
> do so optimally with all the grace and ease of "read...until <char>"
> it makes one more strong set of use cases where choosing LC isn't a
> tradeoff but an unquestionable advantage.

If you have the time to submit a report in the QC with a sample stack 
measuring the time of a simple 'read until cr' type loop with some data 
and comparing it to the more efficient approach you found then it is 
something we (or someone else) can do some digging into at some point to 
see what we can do to improve its performance.

As I said initially, for smaller files I'd be surprised if we could do 
that much since those files will be memory mapped; however, it might be 
there are some improvements which could be made for larger (non memory 
mappable) files.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Mar 22 12:15:11 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 16:15:11 +0000
Subject: Buffer size (was Looking for parser for Email (MIME))
In-Reply-To: <56F1559B.1090901@fourthworld.com>
References: <82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>
	<56F1559B.1090901@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56F16F8F.1090104@tweedly.net>



On 22/03/2016 14:24, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Given that the engine is probably already doing pretty much the same 
> thing, would it make sense to consider a readBufferSize global 
> property which would govern the size of the buffer the engine uses 
> when executing "read...until <char>"?
>
> In my experiments I was surprised to find that larger buffers (>10MB) 
> were slower than "read...until <char>", but the sweet spot seemed to 
> be around 128k.  Presumably this has to do with the overhead of 
> allocating contiguous memory, and if you have any insights on that it 
> would be interesting to learn more.
>
Rather than a settable global property, it may be better to have a 
readable global property which suggests an optimal (or near optimal) 
size for reading.

Also, I'd point out that it is NOT "read ... until <char>", it is "read 
... until <string>" (according to the dictionary - haven't tried it yet).

This means that for reading MBOX format, you could do something like 
(untested)

put CR & "From " into tTerminator -- note the space at the end of the string

repeat forever -- !!
   read from file tFilePath until tTerminator
   if it is empty then exit repeat
   put it into tOneMailMessage
   -- and process that whatever way you want
end repeat

-- Alex.



From hh at livecode.org  Tue Mar 22 11:54:33 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 08:54:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV-_pmLwzPkrrvvETj8Y+h6cWV-evvtQpGbYhiA3oWqTYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com> <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>
	<56F15E94.1010606@cogapp.com>
	<CAH-=WV-_pmLwzPkrrvvETj8Y+h6cWV-evvtQpGbYhiA3oWqTYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458662073108-4702504.post@n4.nabble.com>

> Roland H. wrote:
> was searching for "file", "detailed file", "detailed files". But I was
> not searching for "files". And "files" is listed searching for "file", but
> I would not have thought about that this function would be available in
> "files" listing the details of all the files in the given folder.

The dictionary search has its own logic. I'm also still learning that...
(But it's pretty fast.)



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-parser-for-Email-MIME-tp4702407p4702504.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jiml at netrin.com  Tue Mar 22 12:37:42 2016
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 09:37:42 -0700
Subject: Separate Widget palette
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1722.1458493268.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1722.1458493268.14218.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7BD4B4C8-F281-4C6D-9529-C7074B15A92E@netrin.com>

The Revolution/LiveCode ?Tools Palette? has never been a purely tools palette.
The Browse, Selection, Graphic & Paint tools are strictly tools. You select a tool and the pointer becomes that tool. Tools let you build or modify things.

All the other things on the Tool Palette are actually objects either built-in or, now, widget objects. Objects are already built. You just drag them whole from the palette onto a card. At which point LiveCode courteously chooses the Selection Tool for you to use to modify your new object.
There really is quite a different usage pattern between these two types.

If we were to have two different palettes, we might consider a Tools Palette and an Object Palette.
The Tools Palette would only have tools in it. The Object Palette would only have built-in and Widget objects.

I?m not saying we should do this, but it might make the difference between tools and objects clearer for newbies.

Jim Lambert





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 22 12:54:03 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 09:54:03 -0700
Subject: Buffer size (was Looking for parser for Email (MIME))
In-Reply-To: <ab59d66e8f91c405317dbb9bf233858c@livecode.com>
References: <ab59d66e8f91c405317dbb9bf233858c@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F178AB.2020001@fourthworld.com>

Very helpful info - thanks!

I'll see if I can dig up my old experiment code and submit a tidy 
version with an enhancement request.

My hope was that it might be as simple as "Aha, yes, as bigger buffer 
size!", but few things in life are that simple. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2016-03-22 15:24, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> What is the size of the read buffer used when reading until <char>?
>>
>> I'm assuming it isn't reading a single char per disk access, probably
>> at least using the file system's block size, no?
>
> Well, the engine will memory map files if it can (if there is available
> address space) so for smaller (sub 1Gb) files they are essentially all
> buffered. For larger files, the engine uses the stdio FILE abstraction
> so will get buffering from that.
>
>> Given that the engine is probably already doing pretty much the same
>> thing, would it make sense to consider a readBufferSize global
>> property which would govern the size of the buffer the engine uses
>> when executing "read...until <char>"?
>
> Perhaps - the read until routines could potentially be made more
> efficient. For some streams, buffering is inappropriate unless
> explicitly stated (which isn't an option at the moment). For example,
> for serial port streams and process streams you don't want to read any
> more than you absolutely need to as the other end can block if you ask
> it for more data than it has available. At the moment the engine favours
> the 'do not read any more than absolutely necessary' approach as the
> serial/file/process stream processing code is the same.
>
>> In my experiments I was surprised to find that larger buffers (>10MB)
>> were slower than "read...until <char>", but the sweet spot seemed to
>> be around 128k.  Presumably this has to do with the overhead of
>> allocating contiguous memory, and if you have any insights on that it
>> would be interesting to learn more.
>
> My original reasoning on this was a 'working set' argument. Modern CPUs
> heavily rely on various levels of memory cache, access getting more
> expensive as the cache is further away from the processor. If you use a
> reasonable sized buffer to implement processing in a stream fashion,
> then the working set is essentially just that buffer which means less
> movement of blocks of memory from physical memory to/from the processors
> levels of cache.
>
> However, having chatted to Fraser, he pointed out that Linux tends to
> have a file read ahead of 64kb-128kb 'builtin'. This means that the OS
> will proactively prefetch the next 64-128kb of data after it has
> finished fetching the one you have asked for. The result is that data is
> being read from disk by the OS whilst your processing code is running
> meaning that things get done quicker. (In contrast, if you have a 10Mb
> buffer then you have to wait to read 10Mb before you can do anything
> with it, and then do that again when the buffer is empty).
>
>> Pretty much any program will read big files in chunks, and if LC can
>> do so optimally with all the grace and ease of "read...until <char>"
>> it makes one more strong set of use cases where choosing LC isn't a
>> tradeoff but an unquestionable advantage.
>
> If you have the time to submit a report in the QC with a sample stack
> measuring the time of a simple 'read until cr' type loop with some data
> and comparing it to the more efficient approach you found then it is
> something we (or someone else) can do some digging into at some point to
> see what we can do to improve its performance.
>
> As I said initially, for smaller files I'd be surprised if we could do
> that much since those files will be memory mapped; however, it might be
> there are some improvements which could be made for larger (non memory
> mappable) files.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Tue Mar 22 13:11:25 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 17:11:25 +0000
Subject: Xcode 7.3 support
Message-ID: <56F17CBD.5080009@livecode.com>

Hi all,

Just to forestall the inevitable question: Xcode 7.3 support will be 
added in the following releases of LiveCode:

* 6.7.11 RC 1
* 7.1.4 RC 1
* 8.0.0 DP 17

                                    Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Mar 22 13:14:15 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 10:14:15 -0700
Subject: URGENT: emails being rejected
In-Reply-To: <56F0AB55.2080009@harryscollar.com>
References: <56F0AB55.2080009@harryscollar.com>
Message-ID: <56F17D67.5090209@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/21/2016 07:17 PM, Alex Shaw wrote:
> Hi
>
> Our on-rev site is on jasmine.on-rev.com (50.28.38.70).
>
> Recently, I have had quite a few emails bounce back and rejected by
> recipients, that prior to the on-rev server upgrades accepted emails ok.
>
> Today I noticed on one of the rejected emails..
>
> SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO: xxxx
>      550-delivery from 50.28.38.70 is rejected. Check at
>
> 550-http://www.commtouch.com/Site/Resources/Check_IP_Reputation.asp.
> Reference
>      550 code:tid=0001.0A090302.56F0A528.00EE
>
> "whois 50.28.38.70" returned details related to the new Liquid Web servers.

A couple of things:

1. If you're using the on-rev smtp server to send emails, STOP THAT 
right now. Configure your email client to send email using the smtp 
server of your isp. You don't need to change the pop server, just the 
outgoing one.

2. See point #1.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From skiplondon at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 13:32:30 2016
From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 13:32:30 -0400
Subject: Exchange 365 RESTful API
In-Reply-To: <BFBD0FDD-3CCF-4046-8311-AD4658FF263B@gmail.com>
References: <BFBD0FDD-3CCF-4046-8311-AD4658FF263B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Ty4NqbUDaOZuzXP8y8UPs8RBO5zmFeBaovZi1zOBXF-nwmQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have not tried this but would be very interested to find out if you come
across anything!

SKIP

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Colin Kelly <ckelly5430 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anyone successfully sent any email messages using Microsoft?s RESTful
> API for their exchange 365 service?
>
> ?
> Colin Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From tfabacher at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 13:35:59 2016
From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 13:35:59 -0400
Subject: Mac App Store Submission
Message-ID: <CACjPeORSdqvSizt9Ztf73VdB1LtZG+dwU=wYagX0UOHd5fzdAw@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any step by step guide how to create a .pkg for a LiveCode Mac App
for the store?

WOW, this is where the community can really help LiveCode. It is so
difficult to get a clear updated step by step guide to App submission. It
is such a crap shoot to find the right steps. VERY frustrating.


Richard, I would be happy to host this type of stuff. We are almost at he
stage of having a full time build manager. My only problem would be
language. She may not be able to write a proper explanation in proper
English.


Thanks,

Todd


From tfabacher at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 14:25:50 2016
From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:25:50 -0400
Subject: Separate Widget palette
Message-ID: <CACjPeORDXFD7NChvf+0h9uEGu8+118mAsjcfuSUdPQsvSwpxeA@mail.gmail.com>

I think we should be looking at a Palette like Jot Forms:

http://www.jotform.com/

They do a great job of organizing the UI elements. It would also be SUPER
if there was a way to save grouped objects as templates and just import
them and drop them on the card easily. But this could be a script of some
kind. I assume that is what Scott is doing with his UI objects.

This is used by MILLIONS of people to create web based UI forms. It is
worth a five min peek.


--Todd Fabacher


From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Tue Mar 22 16:06:46 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 16:06:46 -0400
Subject: Exchange 365 RESTful API
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Ty4NqbUDaOZuzXP8y8UPs8RBO5zmFeBaovZi1zOBXF-nwmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BFBD0FDD-3CCF-4046-8311-AD4658FF263B@gmail.com>
	<CAO8Ty4NqbUDaOZuzXP8y8UPs8RBO5zmFeBaovZi1zOBXF-nwmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXMR_fsFS78KN9Ob2xPjs8XhWFFZaHTyko84bteP2Ax0Rg@mail.gmail.com>

Make that three of us.

~Roger


On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Skip Kimpel <skiplondon at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have not tried this but would be very interested to find out if you come
> across anything!
>
> SKIP
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Colin Kelly <ckelly5430 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone successfully sent any email messages using Microsoft?s RESTful
> > API for their exchange 365 service?
> >
> > ?
> > Colin Kelly
>
>


From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 22 18:29:16 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 15:29:16 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16 oddities, dataGrid?
Message-ID: <9F98011F-FFF4-468C-AA21-C837E768A3A3@earthednet.org>

Folks:
I?ve been using DP16 for awhile, and find
1: When setting the alignment of text in a text field, with the property inspector, you have to click twice to get it to set the alignment. Minor, but?

2: Datagrid. The property inspector for the datagrid is now totally opaque. The V7 version was much more obvious.

Are there any documents on how to use the new property inspector for dataGrid?

Best,
Bill

William Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
prothero at earthednet.org






From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Mar 22 20:59:44 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 00:59:44 +0000
Subject: URGENT: emails being rejected
In-Reply-To: <56F17D67.5090209@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56F0AB55.2080009@harryscollar.com>
	<56F17D67.5090209@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56F1EA80.10705@tweedly.net>



On 22/03/2016 17:14, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
> A couple of things:
>
> 1. If you're using the on-rev smtp server to send emails, STOP THAT 
> right now. Configure your email client to send email using the smtp 
> server of your isp. You don't need to change the pop server, just the 
> outgoing one.
>
> 2. See point #1.
>
Mark,

why? what's wrong with sending email from on-rev (or any other hosting 
provider) ?

Intuitively, that seems like the right way to do it - my email claims to 
come from "alex at tweedly.net" - surely it's a good thing that it 
originates on the machine that DNS resolves for 'tweedly.net'.  In fact, 
if I send that email instead from my DSL provider then doesn't it become 
indistinguishable from any spammer's email which has my email address in 
the 'from' line, but comes from a machine with no connection to 
'tweedly.net' ?

And, practically, how do I do that ?  Most days I use 3 different ISPs 
(home, office, neighbour's) - would I need to reconfig my email client 
each time ?

(or, to put it another way - what am I missing ? :-)

Thanks
Alex.



From peterwawood at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 21:07:57 2016
From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:07:57 +0800
Subject: Would love to see this blog with 1,001 Uses stay FRESH
In-Reply-To: <56F1671D.8000702@fourthworld.com>
References: <255D4449-6C33-46F3-9915-70E3E8AC7775@gmail.com>
	<56F1671D.8000702@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A000A6D1-04C3-46A5-B481-944C68392FC5@gmail.com>


> On 22 Mar 2016, at 23:39, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> What is the process for submitting entries there?

Send me an email with a description/story of the app and a few screenshots. I use them to write an entry. I chose to always write the entry myself to establish and maintain a consistent style.

Regards

Peter




From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 22 22:29:46 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:29:46 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
Message-ID: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>

I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?

Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.

I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1. 

Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
prothero at earthednet.org






From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 22:18:33 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:18:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Buffer size (was Looking for parser for Email (MIME))
In-Reply-To: <56F16F8F.1090104@tweedly.net>
References: <CAH-=WV9BeDA2GGYWz2xyg7zpRAXq1WtW7gj9zdKgUR1EhvMffg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1458601953554-4702480.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAH-=WV_EWc=gc2yjH94LtFPS2K0wjA69TPBFj=1JFSkZ4oPUQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<82684b4e3916d318b3442d714a3a95b7@livecode.com>
	<56F1559B.1090901@fourthworld.com> <56F16F8F.1090104@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <1458699513648-4702517.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi All,

Just wondering: Using LiveCode could you split and compress
this 38 gb text file in 10,000 smaller files?

Some years ago, when I was interested in creating 
an Offline Wikipedia Reader (using Livecode), 
I found the same problem to gather all parts
of an article from compressed files.

A Wikipedia article could start in the middle of a 
compressed file and end at the beginning of next.

The script to gather all parts of an article did this:
1) decompress the file where the article starts, 
2) if end tag of this same article is not in 
decompressed data, then
3) decompressed next file, search for end of article
and append to previous decompressed data.

This simple algorithm would fail if there was a
really large Wikipedia article that spans among
3 compressed files, but still today, do not exists 
such really large article in Wikipedia.

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-parser-for-Email-MIME-tp4702407p4702517.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 22 23:17:20 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 20:17:20 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>

I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old provisioning profiles, etc.

I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings, certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to me.

Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS apps for awhile. 

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
> 
> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
> 
> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1. 
> 
> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.
> 
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> prothero at earthednet.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 22 23:34:28 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 20:34:28 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>

Never mind?? Got it to work.
Bill

> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old provisioning profiles, etc.
> 
> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings, certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to me.
> 
> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS apps for awhile. 
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
>> 
>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>> 
>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1. 
>> 
>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.
>> 
>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>> prothero at earthednet.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Wed Mar 23 00:06:00 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 00:06:00 -0400
Subject: URGENT: emails being rejected
In-Reply-To: <56F1EA80.10705@tweedly.net>
References: <56F0AB55.2080009@harryscollar.com>	<56F17D67.5090209@ahsoftware.net>
	<56F1EA80.10705@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <00a701d184b9$4fbede20$ef3c9a60$@net>

You can use any SMTP server and "From" any email you like as long as you
include "MailFrom: me at me.com" in the email header.  For example if you are
using diesel it would be mymasteraccount at diesel.on-rev.com if you don't have
a dedicated IP or mymasteraccount at mymasteraccount.on-rev.com if you do have
a dedicated IP. The MailFrom needs to be the server and email account that
originated the email and whose DNS can be resolved. This is how a consulting
firm can send out mail on behalf of their clients with the "from" being your
client without being flagged as spam. The MailFrom is only in the header and
is not normally viewed by an email client. In short the "from" can be any
email address as long as the MailFrom points back to the originating
server's IP. I send out emails daily that are "From" my local email but
"MailFrom" diesel and get a respectable spam score(slightly below zero) on
the scale of 10 means it's spam.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Alex Tweedly
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 9:00 PM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: URGENT: emails being rejected



On 22/03/2016 17:14, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
> A couple of things:
>
> 1. If you're using the on-rev smtp server to send emails, STOP THAT 
> right now. Configure your email client to send email using the smtp 
> server of your isp. You don't need to change the pop server, just the 
> outgoing one.
>
> 2. See point #1.
>
Mark,

why? what's wrong with sending email from on-rev (or any other hosting
provider) ?

Intuitively, that seems like the right way to do it - my email claims to
come from "alex at tweedly.net" - surely it's a good thing that it originates
on the machine that DNS resolves for 'tweedly.net'.  In fact, if I send that
email instead from my DSL provider then doesn't it become indistinguishable
from any spammer's email which has my email address in the 'from' line, but
comes from a machine with no connection to 'tweedly.net' ?

And, practically, how do I do that ?  Most days I use 3 different ISPs
(home, office, neighbour's) - would I need to reconfig my email client each
time ?

(or, to put it another way - what am I missing ? :-)

Thanks
Alex.

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 23 00:48:34 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 21:48:34 -0700
Subject: Speaking of package managers...
In-Reply-To: <1458699513648-4702517.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458699513648-4702517.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56F22022.70106@fourthworld.com>

A cautionary tale as we explore package dependency management:


"How one developer just broke Node, Babel and thousands of projects in 
11 lines of JavaScript"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 23 01:39:50 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 22:39:50 -0700
Subject: Speaking of package managers...
In-Reply-To: <56F22022.70106@fourthworld.com>
References: <1458699513648-4702517.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56F22022.70106@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56F22C26.6030602@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/22/2016 09:48 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> A cautionary tale as we explore package dependency management:
>
>
> "How one developer just broke Node, Babel and thousands of projects in
> 11 lines of JavaScript"
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/
>

Well, yes, but this seems like an npm registry problem. If you're going 
to allow something silly like "unpublish" after something's already out 
in the wild, and then not allow republishing the same version, then 
that's just asking for trouble.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar 23 02:00:56 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 17:00:56 +1100
Subject: Speaking of package managers...
In-Reply-To: <56F22C26.6030602@ahsoftware.net>
References: <1458699513648-4702517.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56F22022.70106@fourthworld.com> <56F22C26.6030602@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4F146C64-7FBF-42A9-8177-36BB96F76154@appisle.net>


> On 23 Mar 2016, at 4:39 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> Well, yes, but this seems like an npm registry problem. If you're going to allow something silly like "unpublish" after something's already out in the wild, and then not allow republishing the same version, then that's just asking for trouble.


I suspect there would need to be some kind of takedown procedure. None of us need LiveCode Ltd. to be on the hook for someone?s copyright infringement.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 23 02:52:45 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 23:52:45 -0700
Subject: Speaking of package managers...
In-Reply-To: <4F146C64-7FBF-42A9-8177-36BB96F76154@appisle.net>
References: <1458699513648-4702517.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56F22022.70106@fourthworld.com> <56F22C26.6030602@ahsoftware.net>
	<4F146C64-7FBF-42A9-8177-36BB96F76154@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <56F23D3D.6020508@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/22/2016 11:00 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 4:39 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>>
>> Well, yes, but this seems like an npm registry problem. If you're going to allow something silly like "unpublish" after something's already out in the wild, and then not allow republishing the same version, then that's just asking for trouble.
>
>
> I suspect there would need to be some kind of takedown procedure. None of us need LiveCode Ltd. to be on the hook for someone?s copyright infringement.

Well, first of all, there's nothing in this about copyright infringment. 
The takedown request was about a trademarked name, and that's a pretty 
ridiculous charge (IANAL) since there's no possible confusion between 
the two packages.

Secondly, the part I'm railing about is the "unpublish" mechanism in 
particular... in an open source world, it should be possible to replace 
a package with a different package. Allowing a developer to remove a 
package from a public repository *and* expressly forbidding its 
replacement is dumb and shortsighted. There. I've said it.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar 23 02:56:42 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 06:56:42 +0000
Subject: Open 2 Cards in same stack side by side
In-Reply-To: <56EECE0C.6020709@gmail.com>
References: <1d469e97498288dde391b7d627299925@fourthworld.com>
	<56EECE0C.6020709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f23e2a.31080fed.8b33@Brahmanathaswami.local>


Great idea, since, yes, many instances do not require interaction with the elements of the other card. You just want to see it. and now with the Project browser, you *can* go and touch the props of the "other card" easily and then it would be a simple matter to update the snap shot... very cool.

I think one of our elder xTalkres in Texas  (no longer active with LC, forgot his name) had something like that years ago, where he was offer a  preview of cards that actually responded to mouse clicks.


On March 20, 2016 at 6:21:51 AM, RM (richmondmathewson at gmail.com<mailto:richmondmathewson at gmail.com>) wrote:

> answer file "Select a stack file:"
> import snapshot from the long id of cd 1 of it

From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar 23 03:02:07 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:02:07 +1100
Subject: Speaking of package managers...
In-Reply-To: <56F23D3D.6020508@ahsoftware.net>
References: <1458699513648-4702517.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56F22022.70106@fourthworld.com> <56F22C26.6030602@ahsoftware.net>
	<4F146C64-7FBF-42A9-8177-36BB96F76154@appisle.net>
	<56F23D3D.6020508@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4608E07B-4675-4C2F-BDA7-B7CFE0E9114D@appisle.net>

Yes but I wasn't referring to this case in particular. Let's say something has been put out as open source but actually infringes on someone's copyright. Allowing people to replace it after a takedown is unhelpful. Either way here's hoping we end up with hundreds of thousands of packages so we can worry about this stuff :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Mar 2016, at 5:52 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/22/2016 11:00 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> 
>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 4:39 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, yes, but this seems like an npm registry problem. If you're going to allow something silly like "unpublish" after something's already out in the wild, and then not allow republishing the same version, then that's just asking for trouble.
>> 
>> 
>> I suspect there would need to be some kind of takedown procedure. None of us need LiveCode Ltd. to be on the hook for someone?s copyright infringement.
> 
> Well, first of all, there's nothing in this about copyright infringment. The takedown request was about a trademarked name, and that's a pretty ridiculous charge (IANAL) since there's no possible confusion between the two packages.
> 
> Secondly, the part I'm railing about is the "unpublish" mechanism in particular... in an open source world, it should be possible to replace a package with a different package. Allowing a developer to remove a package from a public repository *and* expressly forbidding its replacement is dumb and shortsighted. There. I've said it.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Wed Mar 23 05:28:02 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:28:02 +0000
Subject: LC8 DP16 oddities, dataGrid?
In-Reply-To: <9F98011F-FFF4-468C-AA21-C837E768A3A3@earthednet.org>
References: <9F98011F-FFF4-468C-AA21-C837E768A3A3@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1gVYSy_ehhaoynV=WtvFG41dbnSLio9DdBOYJ7eXA=zng@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bill,

Could you be more specific? The dataGrid pane of the property inspector is
just the bit that was in the Basic pane of the old property inspector under
the
Data Grid: -------------------
section.

The Columns pane was missing and will be there in the next build
(http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16748)

Ali


On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 10:29 PM William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
wrote:

> Folks:
> I?ve been using DP16 for awhile, and find
> 1: When setting the alignment of text in a text field, with the property
> inspector, you have to click twice to get it to set the alignment. Minor,
> but?
>
> 2: Datagrid. The property inspector for the datagrid is now totally
> opaque. The V7 version was much more obvious.
>
> Are there any documents on how to use the new property inspector for
> dataGrid?
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> prothero at earthednet.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From livfoss at mac.com  Wed Mar 23 05:46:53 2016
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:46:53 +0100
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>

Care to write it up, William? 

AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it, a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of progress.

Just my two eurocents

Graham

> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Never mind?? Got it to work.
> Bill
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old provisioning profiles, etc.
>> 
>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings, certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to me.
>> 
>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS apps for awhile. 
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
>>> 
>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>> 
>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1. 
>>> 
>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Wed Mar 23 08:11:27 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:11:27 +0100
Subject: Setting url of browser widget, incompatible characters
Message-ID: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>

I have been working with the browser widget this morning, trying to use it to show/play media files, and I have come across some oddities with some characters  in file names being incompatible with the widget. The script I originally used use is as follows:

on mouseUp

answer file "Choose file"

put "file://"& it into tPath

put tPath into field "url"

set url of widget "browser" to tPath

end mouseUp


This would work unless the file name contained space characters. Changing the script to replace space characters with %20 would rectify this problem. 

on mouseUp

answer file "Choose file"

put "file://"& it into tPath

repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars of tPath

if char i of tPath is space then

put "%20" into char i of tPath

end if

end repeat

put tPath into field "url"

set url of widget "browser" to tPath

end mouseUp


However, in some instances, a space character between two words would not be recognised as such. I tried to delete only the original space character in Finder, and add it again, but it would still not be recognised. Only when I wrote the file name from scratch, space characters and all, would the space character be recognised and the url would be set. 

Here are some urls that do not work:
file:///Users/torenilsen/Documents/MultimedieLab/Musikk/01%20My%20My,%20Hey%20Hey%20(Out%20of%20the Blue).m4p

file:///Users/torenilsen/Documents/MultimedieLab/Musikk/05%20The%20Piano%20Has%20Been%20Drinking%20(Not Me).m4a

file:///Users/torenilsen/Documents/MultimedieLab/Musikk/07%20Hearts%20and%20Bones%20(Live%20In%20New%20York 2011).m4p

file:///Users/torenilsen/Documents/MultimedieLab/Musikk/12%20Blues%20Can't%20Even%20Find Me.m4a


As one can see, the last space character is not replaced. All of these examples contains either apostrophes or parenthesises. Removing these characters from the file name does not help either. In order to have these urls working, the file name has to be retyped in Finder. Have anyone else come across this. I am using LC 8 dp 16 and OS X 10.11.4 (beta).

Regard
Tore Nilsen

From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar 23 08:22:50 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 12:22:50 +0000
Subject: Setting url of browser widget, incompatible characters
In-Reply-To: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>
References: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>
Message-ID: <56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>

On 23/03/2016 12:11, Tore Nilsen wrote:
> This would work unless the file name contained space characters. Changing the script to replace space characters with %20 would rectify this problem.
>
> on mouseUp
>
> answer file "Choose file"
>
> put "file://"& it into tPath
>
> repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars of tPath
>
> if char i of tPath is space then
>
> put "%20" into char i of tPath
>
> end if
>
> end repeat
>
> put tPath into field "url"
>
> set url of widget "browser" to tPath
>
> end mouseUp

Hi Tore,

You should use URLEncode().  For example:

     on mouseUp
        answer file "Choose file"
        put "file://" & URLEncode(it) into tUrl
        put tUrl into field "url"
        set url of widget "browser" to tUrl
     end mouseUp

I'm just in the process of updating the documentation for the browser 
widget to make this clearer.

                                              Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Wed Mar 23 08:24:45 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:24:45 +0100
Subject: Setting url of browser widget, incompatible characters
In-Reply-To: <56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>
References: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>
	<56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <F74D73C6-D781-4CD1-81C4-D704A09DE99B@me.com>

I?ll try that. Thank you.

Tore

> 23. mar. 2016 kl. 13.22 skrev Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>:
> 
> On 23/03/2016 12:11, Tore Nilsen wrote:
>> This would work unless the file name contained space characters. Changing the script to replace space characters with %20 would rectify this problem.
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>> 
>> answer file "Choose file"
>> 
>> put "file://"& it into tPath
>> 
>> repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars of tPath
>> 
>> if char i of tPath is space then
>> 
>> put "%20" into char i of tPath
>> 
>> end if
>> 
>> end repeat
>> 
>> put tPath into field "url"
>> 
>> set url of widget "browser" to tPath
>> 
>> end mouseUp
> 
> Hi Tore,
> 
> You should use URLEncode().  For example:
> 
>    on mouseUp
>       answer file "Choose file"
>       put "file://" & URLEncode(it) into tUrl
>       put tUrl into field "url"
>       set url of widget "browser" to tUrl
>    end mouseUp
> 
> I'm just in the process of updating the documentation for the browser widget to make this clearer.
> 
>                                             Peter
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Wed Mar 23 08:30:19 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:30:19 +0100
Subject: Setting url of browser widget, incompatible characters
In-Reply-To: <F74D73C6-D781-4CD1-81C4-D704A09DE99B@me.com>
References: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>
	<56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>
	<F74D73C6-D781-4CD1-81C4-D704A09DE99B@me.com>
Message-ID: <7FE530AE-29D6-40D8-B8AF-0596222189CF@me.com>

It did not work. URLEncode also encodes ?/?  to %2 and spaces to + as you can see:
file://%2FUsers%2Ftorenilsen%2FDocuments%2FMultimedieLab%2FMusikk%2F01+My+My%2C+Hey+Hey+%28Out+of+the+Blue%29.m4p



Tore


> 23. mar. 2016 kl. 13.24 skrev Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com>:
> 
> I?ll try that. Thank you.
> 
> Tore
> 
>> 23. mar. 2016 kl. 13.22 skrev Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>:
>> 
>> On 23/03/2016 12:11, Tore Nilsen wrote:
>>> This would work unless the file name contained space characters. Changing the script to replace space characters with %20 would rectify this problem.
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp
>>> 
>>> answer file "Choose file"
>>> 
>>> put "file://"& it into tPath
>>> 
>>> repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars of tPath
>>> 
>>> if char i of tPath is space then
>>> 
>>> put "%20" into char i of tPath
>>> 
>>> end if
>>> 
>>> end repeat
>>> 
>>> put tPath into field "url"
>>> 
>>> set url of widget "browser" to tPath
>>> 
>>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> Hi Tore,
>> 
>> You should use URLEncode().  For example:
>> 
>>   on mouseUp
>>      answer file "Choose file"
>>      put "file://" & URLEncode(it) into tUrl
>>      put tUrl into field "url"
>>      set url of widget "browser" to tUrl
>>   end mouseUp
>> 
>> I'm just in the process of updating the documentation for the browser widget to make this clearer.
>> 
>>                                            Peter
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
>> LiveCode Open Source Team
>> 
>> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar 23 08:36:36 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:36:36 +0100
Subject: Setting url of browser widget, incompatible characters
In-Reply-To: <56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>
References: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>
	<56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <ca043d620877afe38b90ef7100ce0a1c@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-23 13:22, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> You should use URLEncode().  For example:
> 
>     on mouseUp
>        answer file "Choose file"
>        put "file://" & URLEncode(it) into tUrl
>        put tUrl into field "url"
>        set url of widget "browser" to tUrl
>     end mouseUp
> 
> I'm just in the process of updating the documentation for the browser
> widget to make this clearer.
> 
>                                              Peter

Erg - see http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14015 and 
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15369.

Perhaps we need a 'standardUrlEncode/Decode' function pair for now until 
we can fix the anomalies in a backwards-compatible fashion.

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From tedennis at softwaredetails.com  Wed Mar 23 09:05:39 2016
From: tedennis at softwaredetails.com (Terry Dennis)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 06:05:39 -0700
Subject: CEF glitches
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1458730801.24065.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1458730801.24065.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1280F4195EA24960A10F6D2B45059533@i7>

-- CEF glitches
-- Try this debug script in 7.x and 8.x 
on mouseUp
   put empty into tInstance
   put empty into tInstances
   put revBrowserOpenCef(the windowid of this stack, "about:blank") into tInstance
   put revBrowserInstances() into tInstances
   put tInstance & " - " & tInstances
   breakpoint
   -- Open Windows 10 Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Delete).  View = "Group By Type"
   -- There are TWO instances of "revbrowser-cefprocess" in "Background Processes".
   -- There should be ONE.
   --
   -- Now, exit LC  ("File, Exit" from LiveCode Menu bar, or "X" in upper right corner of LiveCode window)
   -- There is an instance of "revbrowser-cefprocess" remaining in the Windows Task Manager background processes. 
   -- There should be ZERO.
   --
   -- There is also a phantom "LiveCode for Windows" background process.
   -- There should be ZERO.
   --
   -- There is also a residual "debug.txt" file in testCEF.exe's  home directory after executing the Standalone app.
end mouseUp

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Mar 23 09:11:21 2016
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:11:21 -0400
Subject: Setting url of browser widget, incompatible characters
In-Reply-To: <7FE530AE-29D6-40D8-B8AF-0596222189CF@me.com>
References: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>
	<56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>
	<F74D73C6-D781-4CD1-81C4-D704A09DE99B@me.com>
	<7FE530AE-29D6-40D8-B8AF-0596222189CF@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG9VDvAusoosBe15sGF2nKsxD1PpVAfgXQjx8xwf0YFsgg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com> wrote:

> It did not work. URLEncode also encodes ?/?  to %2 and spaces to + as you
> can see:
>
> file://%2FUsers%2Ftorenilsen%2FDocuments%2FMultimedieLab%2FMusikk%2F01+My+My%2C+Hey+Hey+%28Out+of+the+Blue%29.m4p
>

This is a function I use to convert filenames into file urls.

/**
* \brief Converts a LiveCode filename to a file url.
*
* \param pFilename The filename to convert.
*
* Each item of the filename will be escaped and "file://" will be prefixed.
*
* \return File url.
*/
function fileConvertToFileURL pFilename
   local theItem, i

   set the itemDelimiter to "/"

   repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of pFilename
      put item i of pFilename into theItem
      if i is 1 AND theItem contains ":" then next repeat # skip C:/

      put URLEncode(theItem) into theItem
      replace "+" with "%20" in theItem
      replace "*" with "%2A" in theItem
      put theItem into item i of pFilename
   end repeat

   # [case 1] Windows C:/ paths need to start with a "//"
   # [case 2] If path starts with "//" then it is a network path. Add
   # an extra "/" so that domain is considered localhost.
   if char 1 of pFilename is not "/" then
      put "/" before pFilename
   else if pFilename begins with "//" then
      delete char 1 to 2 of pFilename
   end if

   return "file://" & pFilename
end fileConvertToFileURL

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com


From tore.nilsen at me.com  Wed Mar 23 09:18:40 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:18:40 +0100
Subject: Setting url of browser widget, incompatible characters
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG9VDvAusoosBe15sGF2nKsxD1PpVAfgXQjx8xwf0YFsgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>
	<56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>
	<F74D73C6-D781-4CD1-81C4-D704A09DE99B@me.com>
	<7FE530AE-29D6-40D8-B8AF-0596222189CF@me.com>
	<CAHg3tG9VDvAusoosBe15sGF2nKsxD1PpVAfgXQjx8xwf0YFsgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C53CF941-DD87-4B5D-B949-64DCE2FC0556@me.com>

Thank you this is very useful. As file names can also contain other characters that may be changed during urlEncoding I will have to experiment to take them into consideration as well. From what I can see I will need to convert apostrophes, parenthesises and commas back to their original characters. 


Tore


> 23. mar. 2016 kl. 14.11 skrev Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>:
> 
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com> wrote:
> 
>> It did not work. URLEncode also encodes ?/?  to %2 and spaces to + as you
>> can see:
>> 
>> file://%2FUsers%2Ftorenilsen%2FDocuments%2FMultimedieLab%2FMusikk%2F01+My+My%2C+Hey+Hey+%28Out+of+the+Blue%29.m4p
>> 
> 
> This is a function I use to convert filenames into file urls.
> 
> /**
> * \brief Converts a LiveCode filename to a file url.
> *
> * \param pFilename The filename to convert.
> *
> * Each item of the filename will be escaped and "file://" will be prefixed.
> *
> * \return File url.
> */
> function fileConvertToFileURL pFilename
>   local theItem, i
> 
>   set the itemDelimiter to "/"
> 
>   repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of pFilename
>      put item i of pFilename into theItem
>      if i is 1 AND theItem contains ":" then next repeat # skip C:/
> 
>      put URLEncode(theItem) into theItem
>      replace "+" with "%20" in theItem
>      replace "*" with "%2A" in theItem
>      put theItem into item i of pFilename
>   end repeat
> 
>   # [case 1] Windows C:/ paths need to start with a "//"
>   # [case 2] If path starts with "//" then it is a network path. Add
>   # an extra "/" so that domain is considered localhost.
>   if char 1 of pFilename is not "/" then
>      put "/" before pFilename
>   else if pFilename begins with "//" then
>      delete char 1 to 2 of pFilename
>   end if
> 
>   return "file://" & pFilename
> end fileConvertToFileURL
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar 23 09:21:48 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:21:48 +0000
Subject: Setting url of browser widget, incompatible characters
In-Reply-To: <C53CF941-DD87-4B5D-B949-64DCE2FC0556@me.com>
References: <9D628C4D-DF99-4974-A4BD-3AFFBA5ED749@me.com>
	<56F28A9A.1030809@livecode.com>
	<F74D73C6-D781-4CD1-81C4-D704A09DE99B@me.com>
	<7FE530AE-29D6-40D8-B8AF-0596222189CF@me.com>
	<CAHg3tG9VDvAusoosBe15sGF2nKsxD1PpVAfgXQjx8xwf0YFsgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C53CF941-DD87-4B5D-B949-64DCE2FC0556@me.com>
Message-ID: <56F2986C.8050902@livecode.com>

On 23/03/2016 13:18, Tore Nilsen wrote:
> Thank you this is very useful. As file names can also contain other
> characters that may be changed during urlEncoding I will have to
> experiment to take them into consideration as well. From what I can
> see I will need to convert apostrophes, parenthesises and commas back
> to their original characters.

As far as I know, all three of those _should_ be percent-encoded, as
required by RFC3986.

                                           Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 10:11:54 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:11:54 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16 oddities, dataGrid?
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1gVYSy_ehhaoynV=WtvFG41dbnSLio9DdBOYJ7eXA=zng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9F98011F-FFF4-468C-AA21-C837E768A3A3@earthednet.org>
	<CAJR0Q1gVYSy_ehhaoynV=WtvFG41dbnSLio9DdBOYJ7eXA=zng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B144293D-1109-4217-A8AC-2CAFC775DEC8@earthednet.org>

Ali,
It was the lack of the columns inspector pane that I was referring to. Sorry for my posting being opaque.. No worries, I went back to v7 and changed it, then back to v8. 

I'm glad the column inspector is coming back in next release.
Thanks!
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:28 AM, Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> Could you be more specific? The dataGrid pane of the property inspector is
> just the bit that was in the Basic pane of the old property inspector under
> the
> Data Grid: -------------------
> section.
> 
> The Columns pane was missing and will be there in the next build
> (http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16748)
> 
> Ali
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 10:29 PM William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Folks:
>> I?ve been using DP16 for awhile, and find
>> 1: When setting the alignment of text in a text field, with the property
>> inspector, you have to click twice to get it to set the alignment. Minor,
>> but?
>> 
>> 2: Datagrid. The property inspector for the datagrid is now totally
>> opaque. The V7 version was much more obvious.
>> 
>> Are there any documents on how to use the new property inspector for
>> dataGrid?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>> prothero at earthednet.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 10:35:29 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:35:29 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>

Graham,
I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine". 

Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings. Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that will come.

I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.

I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them somewhere.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Care to write it up, William? 
> 
> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it, a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of progress.
> 
> Just my two eurocents
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old provisioning profiles, etc.
>>> 
>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings, certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to me.
>>> 
>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS apps for awhile. 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
>>>> 
>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>> 
>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1. 
>>>> 
>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.
>>>> 
>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Mar 23 12:05:06 2016
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:05:06 -0700
Subject: Socket Is Not Open
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1458730801.24065.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1458730801.24065.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A5439DC3-4413-4A30-AEEE-CBE18BD545E8@clearvisiontech.com>

Greetings!

I have a client that is getting a "socket is not open" error when my windows (LC 7.0.1) application attempts to access the internet.  If they login to their computer using a standard login it's fine.  But, if they login to the computer using a domain, they get the "socket is not open" error.  Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
-Dan


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Wed Mar 23 13:50:12 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:50:12 -0700
Subject: will a data grid handle RTL text?
In-Reply-To: <56F0B97A.1060902@pdslabs.net>
References: <56F0B97A.1060902@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <56F2D754.2030109@pdslabs.net>

The answer is yes, it "just works" with no special adjustments needed, 
at least in DG forms. So I assume the same will be true in DG tables.

Thanks -
Phil



On 3/21/16 8:18 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
> Like the subject says....
>
> I'm updating a desktop app in LC 7.x and will probably need to display 
> Arabic (or other right-to-left) text in a data grid before long. I 
> haven't tried it yet. Any predictions? Will it work?
>
> I expect I'll ultimately need Arabic display in both tables and forms 
> if that makes any difference.
>
> Thanks -
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From mark at livecode.com  Wed Mar 23 13:53:05 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:53:05 +0100
Subject: will a data grid handle RTL =?UTF-8?Q?text=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <56F2D754.2030109@pdslabs.net>
References: <56F0B97A.1060902@pdslabs.net> <56F2D754.2030109@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <a7ad7fed149f742d770728ac8d756a82@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-23 18:50, Phil Davis wrote:
> The answer is yes, it "just works" with no special adjustments needed,
> at least in DG forms. So I assume the same will be true in DG tables.

I had meant to reply to say that hopefully that would be the case the 
other day as the DG is based on fields... Thank Fraser for getting that 
little headache working!

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From dbrooksne at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 14:12:49 2016
From: dbrooksne at gmail.com (David Brooks)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:12:49 -0500
Subject: Mobile Devices & xCode 7.3
Message-ID: <CADYm3ApDETWuhNbuti_MFoyh9Z8biQUhypYf=pAo=PQ7a_2WhQ@mail.gmail.com>

Among the LiveCode preferences for Mobile Support we need to enter a path
to the SDK. I had this working before with older xcode and X OS.

How do you do this with xCode 7.3 and the current version of El Capitan
(10.11.4).

Thanks.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar 23 14:28:24 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:28:24 -0500
Subject: CEF glitches
In-Reply-To: <1280F4195EA24960A10F6D2B45059533@i7>
References: <mailman.1.1458730801.24065.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<1280F4195EA24960A10F6D2B45059533@i7>
Message-ID: <56F2E048.4040207@hyperactivesw.com>

You could add your comments to this bug report:

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17059

On 3/23/2016 8:05 AM, Terry Dennis wrote:
> -- CEF glitches
> -- Try this debug script in 7.x and 8.x
> on mouseUp
>     put empty into tInstance
>     put empty into tInstances
>     put revBrowserOpenCef(the windowid of this stack, "about:blank") into tInstance
>     put revBrowserInstances() into tInstances
>     put tInstance & " - " & tInstances
>     breakpoint
>     -- Open Windows 10 Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Delete).  View = "Group By Type"
>     -- There are TWO instances of "revbrowser-cefprocess" in "Background Processes".
>     -- There should be ONE.
>     --
>     -- Now, exit LC  ("File, Exit" from LiveCode Menu bar, or "X" in upper right corner of LiveCode window)
>     -- There is an instance of "revbrowser-cefprocess" remaining in the Windows Task Manager background processes.
>     -- There should be ZERO.
>     --
>     -- There is also a phantom "LiveCode for Windows" background process.
>     -- There should be ZERO.
>     --
>     -- There is also a residual "debug.txt" file in testCEF.exe's  home directory after executing the Standalone app.
> end mouseUp
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed Mar 23 14:42:35 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:42:35 +0100
Subject: Mobile Devices & xCode 7.3
In-Reply-To: <CADYm3ApDETWuhNbuti_MFoyh9Z8biQUhypYf=pAo=PQ7a_2WhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYm3ApDETWuhNbuti_MFoyh9Z8biQUhypYf=pAo=PQ7a_2WhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <772AFA66-9B2D-450B-BD39-89E7E7FA1D5F@m-r-d.de>

Yesterday Peter TB Brett from LiveCode posted the following statement regarding xCode 7.3:

"Just to forestall the inevitable question: Xcode 7.3 support will be added in the following releases of LiveCode:

* 6.7.11 RC 1
* 7.1.4 RC 1
* 8.0.0 DP 17?


Matthias



> Am 23.03.2016 um 19:12 schrieb David Brooks <dbrooksne at gmail.com <mailto:dbrooksne at gmail.com>>:
> 
> Among the LiveCode preferences for Mobile Support we need to enter a path
> to the SDK. I had this working before with older xcode and X OS.
> 
> How do you do this with xCode 7.3 and the current version of El Capitan
> (10.11.4).
> 
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>



From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 15:44:59 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 12:44:59 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>

I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.

When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the following message from XCode:

T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning profile. (0xE8008016).?

I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message above from XCode doesn?t give much help. 

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Graham,
> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine". 
> 
> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings. Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that will come.
> 
> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.
> 
> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them somewhere.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Care to write it up, William? 
>> 
>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it, a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of progress.
>> 
>> Just my two eurocents
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings, certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS apps for awhile. 
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tfabacher at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 16:29:18 2016
From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:29:18 -0400
Subject: iOS deployment question
Message-ID: <CACjPeOSmOz7aLHpyyHzJoeZNDF5uWR51iW72UZwGJmQcrvkYOA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bill,

Please please if you have any info on the steps of how to submit to  the
OSX Store. We are facing the same problems. I can find almost ZERO info on
what needs to be done to submit the app.

Thanks,

Todd

> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero <at> earthednet.org> wrote:
>
> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
>
> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle  of the provisioning profile to
org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
setting, and I set the internal App ID to
org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>
> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>
> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was a list of possible complaints the
standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least
some diagnostic things one could do.
>
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> prothero <at> earthednet.org
>


From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 16:45:59 2016
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 22:45:59 +0200
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-apn0pFZoY8wjL9f+64doWczDj3txXx69SrkKDw074uA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bill,

Just a thought:
Could it be the case that you have checked the "Beta version" checkbox in
the standalone application settings for iOS, but you sign the app using a
Development profile?

I think the "Beta version" checkbox has to be used *only* with a
Distribution profile.

Regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 9:44 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
wrote:

> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
>
> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the following
> message from XCode:
>
> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
> profile. (0xE8008016).?
>
> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic
> information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message
> above from XCode doesn?t give much help.
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> > On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Graham,
> > I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my
> developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was
> after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that it
> couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't at
> first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a new
> certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had to
> recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine".
> >
> > Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match
> with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is
> multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings. Each
> new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one and the
> name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer website. Haven't
> figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that will come.
> >
> > I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody decides
> to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what newbies go
> thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS occasionally and
> the process seems to always be painful.
> >
> > I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them somewhere.
> >
> > Best,
> > Bill
> >
> > William Prothero
> > http://es.earthednet.org
> >
> >> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Care to write it up, William?
> >>
> >> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to
> deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane
> rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have been
> re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s just my
> view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of the biggest
> challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from having the idea
> for the app all the way to successfully publishing it, a journey with no
> u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of progress.
> >>
> >> Just my two eurocents
> >>
> >> Graham
> >>
> >>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero <
> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the certificates
> signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with lots of ways of
> going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old provisioning profiles, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and transparent.
> Like some app that will go through the settings, certificates, and
> provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or perhaps, could the Livecode
> diagnostics give more information to help figure out what?s going wrong?
> This seems like a real need to me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of
> hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS apps for
> awhile.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> Bill
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <
> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
> >>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS
> profile.?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the
> bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and
> it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to
> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there
> was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with
> possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> Bill
> >>>>>
> >>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> >>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> >>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 16:54:26 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:54:26 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>

Folks:
I?m stuck.  I keep getting the error message:

"The entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning profile. (0xE8008016)."

Folks:

So: Is this a problem with the certificate, or with the options I select on the iOS settings in Livecode?
It sounds like it is complaining about the code signing certificate. I have checked, downloaded, tried, to no avail. 

I?m stuck. Any comments or direction would  be MUCH appreciated. One problem for me is the jargon that Apple uses doesn?t match up well with the Livecode jargon, so it?s very difficult to tell where to go to figure out what?s going on. Not to mention that the Apple documentation doesn?t always match up with xcode screen.

Bill

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:44 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
> 
> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the following message from XCode:
> 
> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning profile. (0xE8008016).?
> 
> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message above from XCode doesn?t give much help. 
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Graham,
>> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine". 
>> 
>> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings. Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that will come.
>> 
>> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.
>> 
>> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them somewhere.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> http://es.earthednet.org
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Care to write it up, William? 
>>> 
>>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it, a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of progress.
>>> 
>>> Just my two eurocents
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings, certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS apps for awhile. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 17:01:11 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:01:11 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-apn0pFZoY8wjL9f+64doWczDj3txXx69SrkKDw074uA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<CA+JfEq-apn0pFZoY8wjL9f+64doWczDj3txXx69SrkKDw074uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CB45E577-A302-4AEC-B02A-4A9D64657334@earthednet.org>

Panos:
Thanks for the idea. Nope, beta version isn?t checked.
I?m using a Development profile.

Todd:
Yes, there is a major need for more information and help getting mobile apps through the process. It?s really ugly for newbies. It?s made even more difficult because Apple keeps making changes and even their documentation gets out of date. Mobile development is a major capability of Livecode and it seems that very little attention (or at least insufficient) attention is being given to making it as seamless as the platform promises.

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 1:45 PM, panagiotis merakos <merakosp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> Just a thought:
> Could it be the case that you have checked the "Beta version" checkbox in
> the standalone application settings for iOS, but you sign the app using a
> Development profile?
> 
> I think the "Beta version" checkbox has to be used *only* with a
> Distribution profile.
> 
> Regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 9:44 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
>> 
>> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the following
>> message from XCode:
>> 
>> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>> profile. (0xE8008016).?
>> 
>> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic
>> information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message
>> above from XCode doesn?t give much help.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Graham,
>>> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my
>> developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was
>> after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that it
>> couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't at
>> first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a new
>> certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had to
>> recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine".
>>> 
>>> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match
>> with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is
>> multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings. Each
>> new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one and the
>> name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer website. Haven't
>> figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that will come.
>>> 
>>> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody decides
>> to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what newbies go
>> thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS occasionally and
>> the process seems to always be painful.
>>> 
>>> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them somewhere.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William Prothero
>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Care to write it up, William?
>>>> 
>>>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to
>> deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane
>> rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have been
>> re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s just my
>> view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of the biggest
>> challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from having the idea
>> for the app all the way to successfully publishing it, a journey with no
>> u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of progress.
>>>> 
>>>> Just my two eurocents
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
>>>> 
>>>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero <
>> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the certificates
>> signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with lots of ways of
>> going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and transparent.
>> Like some app that will go through the settings, certificates, and
>> provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or perhaps, could the Livecode
>> diagnostics give more information to help figure out what?s going wrong?
>> This seems like a real need to me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of
>> hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS apps for
>> awhile.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <
>> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS
>> profile.?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the
>> bundle  of the provisioning profile to org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and
>> it shows up in the Profile setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there
>> was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would make, with
>> possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things one could do.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From iowahengst at mac.com  Wed Mar 23 17:08:07 2016
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 17:08:07 -0400
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <A1EA4D48-2C22-47A8-93E2-2786B9B96601@mac.com>

I've had that happen when the Internal App ID that I typed into the Standalone Application Settings didn't match what I typed in at Apple. I was off by one capitalization. 

be well,
randy
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:54 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> I?m stuck.  I keep getting the error message:
> 
> "The entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning profile. (0xE8008016)."
> 
> Folks:
> 
> So: Is this a problem with the certificate, or with the options I select on the iOS settings in Livecode?
> It sounds like it is complaining about the code signing certificate. I have checked, downloaded, tried, to no avail. 
> 
> I?m stuck. Any comments or direction would  be MUCH appreciated. One problem for me is the jargon that Apple uses doesn?t match up well with the Livecode jargon, so it?s very difficult to tell where to go to figure out what?s going on. Not to mention that the Apple documentation doesn?t always match up with xcode screen.
> 
> Bill
>> 


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Mar 23 17:09:02 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:09:02 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <D31851B4.7DAB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

This might be a naming issue.  In standalone settings, make sure that the
last item in the entry for Internal App ID matches the app name you set up
in your provisioning profile in Apple's developer portal.  The Internal
App ID should look like this:

com.<yourdomain>.<yourappid>

<yourappid> is the part that needs to match whatever you set up in the
portal.

Also make sure that you have the correct item selected in the  Profile
pulldown.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/23/16, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:

>Folks:
>I?m stuck.  I keep getting the error message:
>
>"The entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>profile. (0xE8008016)."
>
>Folks:
>
>So: Is this a problem with the certificate, or with the options I select
>on the iOS settings in Livecode?
>It sounds like it is complaining about the code signing certificate. I
>have checked, downloaded, tried, to no avail.
>
>I?m stuck. Any comments or direction would  be MUCH appreciated. One
>problem for me is the jargon that Apple uses doesn?t match up well with
>the Livecode jargon, so it?s very difficult to tell where to go to figure
>out what?s going on. Not to mention that the Apple documentation doesn?t
>always match up with xcode screen.
>
>Bill
>
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:44 PM, William Prothero
>><prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
>> 
>> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the
>>following message from XCode:
>> 
>> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>profile. (0xE8008016).?
>> 
>> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic
>>information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message
>>above from XCode doesn?t give much help.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>wrote:
>>> 
>>> Graham,
>>> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my
>>>developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was
>>>after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that
>>>it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't
>>>at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a
>>>new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had
>>>to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine".
>>> 
>>> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match
>>>with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is
>>>multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings.
>>>Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one
>>>and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer
>>>website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that
>>>will come.
>>> 
>>> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody
>>>decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what
>>>newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS
>>>occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.
>>> 
>>> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them
>>>somewhere.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William Prothero
>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Care to write it up, William?
>>>> 
>>>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to
>>>>deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane
>>>>rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have
>>>>been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s
>>>>just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of
>>>>the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from
>>>>having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it,
>>>>a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of
>>>>progress.
>>>> 
>>>> Just my two eurocents
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
>>>> 
>>>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>><prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the
>>>>>>certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with
>>>>>>lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old
>>>>>>provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and
>>>>>>transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings,
>>>>>>certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or
>>>>>>perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to
>>>>>>help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to
>>>>>>me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of
>>>>>>hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS
>>>>>>apps for awhile.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>><prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS
>>>>>>>profile.?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the
>>>>>>>bundle  of the provisioning profile to
>>>>>>>org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
>>>>>>>setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>>>>>>>org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there
>>>>>>>was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would
>>>>>>>make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things
>>>>>>>one could do.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From waprothero at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 17:23:08 2016
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:23:08 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <D31851B4.7DAB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
	<D31851B4.7DAB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <60510D70-6A1E-4125-8563-B31505067060@gmail.com>

Folks:
Ok, what I got working was a profile that was named ?iOS Team Provisioning Profile?. There was a wildcard version, and a version with my app ID attached. Both worked. The specific profiles I created for the app itself gave the error.

Since this is an app that I will only use myself, on my iPhone, that?s good enough.

I?ll go back and carefully check your suggestions, though Scott. At present, I need some lunch. Been staring at the screen too long.

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> 
> This might be a naming issue.  In standalone settings, make sure that the
> last item in the entry for Internal App ID matches the app name you set up
> in your provisioning profile in Apple's developer portal.  The Internal
> App ID should look like this:
> 
> com.<yourdomain>.<yourappid>
> 
> <yourappid> is the part that needs to match whatever you set up in the
> portal.
> 
> Also make sure that you have the correct item selected in the  Profile
> pulldown.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/23/16, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
>> Folks:
>> I?m stuck.  I keep getting the error message:
>> 
>> "The entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>> profile. (0xE8008016)."
>> 
>> Folks:
>> 
>> So: Is this a problem with the certificate, or with the options I select
>> on the iOS settings in Livecode?
>> It sounds like it is complaining about the code signing certificate. I
>> have checked, downloaded, tried, to no avail.
>> 
>> I?m stuck. Any comments or direction would  be MUCH appreciated. One
>> problem for me is the jargon that Apple uses doesn?t match up well with
>> the Livecode jargon, so it?s very difficult to tell where to go to figure
>> out what?s going on. Not to mention that the Apple documentation doesn?t
>> always match up with xcode screen.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:44 PM, William Prothero
>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
>>> 
>>> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the
>>> following message from XCode:
>>> 
>>> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>> profile. (0xE8008016).?
>>> 
>>> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic
>>> information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message
>>> above from XCode doesn?t give much help.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Graham,
>>>> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my
>>>> developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was
>>>> after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that
>>>> it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't
>>>> at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a
>>>> new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had
>>>> to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine".
>>>> 
>>>> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match
>>>> with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is
>>>> multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings.
>>>> Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one
>>>> and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer
>>>> website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that
>>>> will come.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody
>>>> decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what
>>>> newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS
>>>> occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.
>>>> 
>>>> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them
>>>> somewhere.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> William Prothero
>>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Care to write it up, William?
>>>>> 
>>>>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to
>>>>> deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane
>>>>> rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have
>>>>> been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s
>>>>> just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of
>>>>> the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from
>>>>> having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it,
>>>>> a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of
>>>>> progress.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just my two eurocents
>>>>> 
>>>>> Graham
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the
>>>>>>> certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with
>>>>>>> lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old
>>>>>>> provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and
>>>>>>> transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings,
>>>>>>> certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or
>>>>>>> perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to
>>>>>>> help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of
>>>>>>> hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS
>>>>>>> apps for awhile.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS
>>>>>>>> profile.?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the
>>>>>>>> bundle  of the provisioning profile to
>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
>>>>>>>> setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there
>>>>>>>> was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would
>>>>>>>> make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things
>>>>>>>> one could do.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Mar 23 17:26:50 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] guides for positioning of controls
Message-ID: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>

I was asked by Rolf Kocherhans if one could do a guide system when doing the
layout of controls on a card.
Here is a plugin that does that: once the plugin is started any control you
select in edit mode can be moved around and controls that have matching
positions for left, top, right bottom and middle will be indicated by guides

Just start the stack, when opening for the first time it will ask if you
want to move it to the plugin folder. Once that is done you can choose the
plugin from Development -> Plugins -> bnGuides

-------------------------
http://berndniggemann.on-rev.com/guides/bnGuides_0_4.livecode.zip
-------------------------

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-guides-for-positioning-of-controls-tp4702554.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From waprothero at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 18:14:23 2016
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:14:23 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <60510D70-6A1E-4125-8563-B31505067060@gmail.com>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
	<D31851B4.7DAB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<60510D70-6A1E-4125-8563-B31505067060@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96B56AB5-AE7D-4DBD-9052-405994AFC20A@gmail.com>

Last post on this subject:
I also got it working by changing my provisioning profile to include both iPad and iPhone. Previously I had only checked the iPhone option. But, I guess I must have entered a device description for my iPad too. Hmmmm? what an obtuse system.
Bill

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:23 PM, William Prothero <waprothero at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> Ok, what I got working was a profile that was named ?iOS Team Provisioning Profile?. There was a wildcard version, and a version with my app ID attached. Both worked. The specific profiles I created for the app itself gave the error.
> 
> Since this is an app that I will only use myself, on my iPhone, that?s good enough.
> 
> I?ll go back and carefully check your suggestions, though Scott. At present, I need some lunch. Been staring at the screen too long.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>> 
>> This might be a naming issue.  In standalone settings, make sure that the
>> last item in the entry for Internal App ID matches the app name you set up
>> in your provisioning profile in Apple's developer portal.  The Internal
>> App ID should look like this:
>> 
>> com.<yourdomain>.<yourappid>
>> 
>> <yourappid> is the part that needs to match whatever you set up in the
>> portal.
>> 
>> Also make sure that you have the correct item selected in the  Profile
>> pulldown.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/23/16, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
>> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Folks:
>>> I?m stuck.  I keep getting the error message:
>>> 
>>> "The entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>> profile. (0xE8008016)."
>>> 
>>> Folks:
>>> 
>>> So: Is this a problem with the certificate, or with the options I select
>>> on the iOS settings in Livecode?
>>> It sounds like it is complaining about the code signing certificate. I
>>> have checked, downloaded, tried, to no avail.
>>> 
>>> I?m stuck. Any comments or direction would  be MUCH appreciated. One
>>> problem for me is the jargon that Apple uses doesn?t match up well with
>>> the Livecode jargon, so it?s very difficult to tell where to go to figure
>>> out what?s going on. Not to mention that the Apple documentation doesn?t
>>> always match up with xcode screen.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:44 PM, William Prothero
>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
>>>> 
>>>> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the
>>>> following message from XCode:
>>>> 
>>>> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>>> profile. (0xE8008016).?
>>>> 
>>>> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic
>>>> information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message
>>>> above from XCode doesn?t give much help.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Graham,
>>>>> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my
>>>>> developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was
>>>>> after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that
>>>>> it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't
>>>>> at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a
>>>>> new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had
>>>>> to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine".
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match
>>>>> with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is
>>>>> multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings.
>>>>> Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one
>>>>> and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer
>>>>> website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that
>>>>> will come.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody
>>>>> decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what
>>>>> newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS
>>>>> occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them
>>>>> somewhere.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> William Prothero
>>>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Care to write it up, William?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to
>>>>>> deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane
>>>>>> rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have
>>>>>> been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s
>>>>>> just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of
>>>>>> the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from
>>>>>> having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it,
>>>>>> a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of
>>>>>> progress.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just my two eurocents
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the
>>>>>>>> certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with
>>>>>>>> lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old
>>>>>>>> provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and
>>>>>>>> transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings,
>>>>>>>> certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or
>>>>>>>> perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to
>>>>>>>> help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to
>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of
>>>>>>>> hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS
>>>>>>>> apps for awhile.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS
>>>>>>>>> profile.?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the
>>>>>>>>> bundle  of the provisioning profile to
>>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
>>>>>>>>> setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there
>>>>>>>>> was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would
>>>>>>>>> make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things
>>>>>>>>> one could do.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 18:14:59 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:14:59 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <60510D70-6A1E-4125-8563-B31505067060@gmail.com>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
	<D31851B4.7DAB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<60510D70-6A1E-4125-8563-B31505067060@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3D1F2E9E-B0C4-4C0B-8DC3-3BBD3163CC55@earthednet.org>

Last post on this subject:
I also got it working by changing my provisioning profile to include both iPad and iPhone. Previously I had only checked the iPhone option. But, I guess I must have entered a device description for my iPad too. Hmmmm? what an obtuse system.
Bill
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:23 PM, William Prothero <waprothero at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> Ok, what I got working was a profile that was named ?iOS Team Provisioning Profile?. There was a wildcard version, and a version with my app ID attached. Both worked. The specific profiles I created for the app itself gave the error.
> 
> Since this is an app that I will only use myself, on my iPhone, that?s good enough.
> 
> I?ll go back and carefully check your suggestions, though Scott. At present, I need some lunch. Been staring at the screen too long.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>> 
>> This might be a naming issue.  In standalone settings, make sure that the
>> last item in the entry for Internal App ID matches the app name you set up
>> in your provisioning profile in Apple's developer portal.  The Internal
>> App ID should look like this:
>> 
>> com.<yourdomain>.<yourappid>
>> 
>> <yourappid> is the part that needs to match whatever you set up in the
>> portal.
>> 
>> Also make sure that you have the correct item selected in the  Profile
>> pulldown.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/23/16, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
>> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Folks:
>>> I?m stuck.  I keep getting the error message:
>>> 
>>> "The entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>> profile. (0xE8008016)."
>>> 
>>> Folks:
>>> 
>>> So: Is this a problem with the certificate, or with the options I select
>>> on the iOS settings in Livecode?
>>> It sounds like it is complaining about the code signing certificate. I
>>> have checked, downloaded, tried, to no avail.
>>> 
>>> I?m stuck. Any comments or direction would  be MUCH appreciated. One
>>> problem for me is the jargon that Apple uses doesn?t match up well with
>>> the Livecode jargon, so it?s very difficult to tell where to go to figure
>>> out what?s going on. Not to mention that the Apple documentation doesn?t
>>> always match up with xcode screen.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:44 PM, William Prothero
>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
>>>> 
>>>> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the
>>>> following message from XCode:
>>>> 
>>>> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>>> profile. (0xE8008016).?
>>>> 
>>>> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic
>>>> information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message
>>>> above from XCode doesn?t give much help.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Graham,
>>>>> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my
>>>>> developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was
>>>>> after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that
>>>>> it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't
>>>>> at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a
>>>>> new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had
>>>>> to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine".
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match
>>>>> with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is
>>>>> multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings.
>>>>> Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one
>>>>> and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer
>>>>> website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that
>>>>> will come.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody
>>>>> decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what
>>>>> newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS
>>>>> occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them
>>>>> somewhere.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> William Prothero
>>>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Care to write it up, William?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to
>>>>>> deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane
>>>>>> rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have
>>>>>> been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s
>>>>>> just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of
>>>>>> the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from
>>>>>> having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it,
>>>>>> a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of
>>>>>> progress.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just my two eurocents
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the
>>>>>>>> certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with
>>>>>>>> lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old
>>>>>>>> provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and
>>>>>>>> transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings,
>>>>>>>> certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or
>>>>>>>> perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to
>>>>>>>> help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to
>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of
>>>>>>>> hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS
>>>>>>>> apps for awhile.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS
>>>>>>>>> profile.?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the
>>>>>>>>> bundle  of the provisioning profile to
>>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
>>>>>>>>> setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there
>>>>>>>>> was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would
>>>>>>>>> make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things
>>>>>>>>> one could do.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hh at livecode.org  Wed Mar 23 17:48:01 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] guides for positioning of controls
In-Reply-To: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1458769681559-4702557.post@n4.nabble.com>

Excellent tool, I like it. Makes positioning easy and fast.
And: also tested to work on RaspberryPi 3 ;-)

H.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-guides-for-positioning-of-controls-tp4702554p4702557.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Mar 23 18:34:32 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:34:32 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <CACjPeOSmOz7aLHpyyHzJoeZNDF5uWR51iW72UZwGJmQcrvkYOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACjPeOSmOz7aLHpyyHzJoeZNDF5uWR51iW72UZwGJmQcrvkYOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D31862B7.7DAEB%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Speaking as someone who took a stab at this
(http://tactilemedia.com/download/How_to_publish_on_iOS_83013.pdf),
it's a major amount of work that almost needs to be a part time job.  Not
only does Apple change details of the process and add features to the
system, but it updates/rearranges the tools and changes the layout of
developer portal.  And once Apple makes changes, LiveCode makes changes to
accommodate them.  So all the screenshots and step by step instructions
you provide easily become out of date.

All of this, in addition to things that just come of nowhere, like the
recent expiration of Apple's Worldwide Developer Certificate, make
documenting the process a demanding effort.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/23/16, 1:29 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Todd Fabacher"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of tfabacher at gmail.com>
wrote:

>Hello Bill,
>
>Please please if you have any info on the steps of how to submit to  the
>OSX Store. We are facing the same problems. I can find almost ZERO info on
>what needs to be done to submit the app.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Todd
>
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero <at>
>>earthednet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
>>
>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle
>>of the provisioning profile to
>org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
>setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>
>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>
>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was
>>a list of possible complaints the
>standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least
>some diagnostic things one could do.
>>
>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.





From peter.brett at livecode.com  Wed Mar 23 18:50:20 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 22:50:20 +0000
Subject: [ANN] guides for positioning of controls
In-Reply-To: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56F31DAC.6040106@livecode.com>

On 23/03/2016 21:26, BNig wrote:
> I was asked by Rolf Kocherhans if one could do a guide system when doing the
> layout of controls on a card.
> Here is a plugin that does that: once the plugin is started any control you
> select in edit mode can be moved around and controls that have matching
> positions for left, top, right bottom and middle will be indicated by guides
>
> Just start the stack, when opening for the first time it will ask if you
> want to move it to the plugin folder. Once that is done you can choose the
> plugin from Development -> Plugins -> bnGuides
>
> -------------------------
> http://berndniggemann.on-rev.com/guides/bnGuides_0_4.livecode.zip
> -------------------------

Hi Bernd,

Unfortunately that link is broken for me!  Is it working for you?

                                         Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Mar 23 18:27:04 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] guides for positioning of controls
In-Reply-To: <56F31DAC.6040106@livecode.com>
References: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56F31DAC.6040106@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1458772024107-4702560.post@n4.nabble.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote
>> ------------------------- 
>> http://berndniggemann.on-rev.com/guides/bnGuides_0_4.livecode.zip
>> -------------------------
> 
> Hi Bernd,
> 
> Unfortunately that link is broken for me!  Is it working for you?
> 
>                                          Peter

Please try again, I saw from the logs that someone had a 404 while I was
uploading a correction for a typo.

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-guides-for-positioning-of-controls-tp4702554p4702560.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ebeugelaar at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 19:29:52 2016
From: ebeugelaar at gmail.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 00:29:52 +0100
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <D31862B7.7DAEB%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <CACjPeOSmOz7aLHpyyHzJoeZNDF5uWR51iW72UZwGJmQcrvkYOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<D31862B7.7DAEB%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <CAN0h2NV5=CX1nB7wUKpJBQzwHCvw=2t_CBv1N0=VPF+TeokQiA@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe this Chrome extension below is usefull when dealing with provisioning
files.

App IDs are "the herpes of iPhone provisioning". Once you've created one,
you're ...

http://simonwhitaker.github.io/app-id-sanity/

Cheers,
Erik





On Wednesday, 23 March 2016, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> Speaking as someone who took a stab at this
> (http://tactilemedia.com/download/How_to_publish_on_iOS_83013.pdf),
> it's a major amount of work that almost needs to be a part time job.  Not
> only does Apple change details of the process and add features to the
> system, but it updates/rearranges the tools and changes the layout of
> developer portal.  And once Apple makes changes, LiveCode makes changes to
> accommodate them.  So all the screenshots and step by step instructions
> you provide easily become out of date.
>
> All of this, in addition to things that just come of nowhere, like the
> recent expiration of Apple's Worldwide Developer Certificate, make
> documenting the process a demanding effort.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
> On 3/23/16, 1:29 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Todd Fabacher"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com <javascript:;> on behalf of
> tfabacher at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> >Hello Bill,
> >
> >Please please if you have any info on the steps of how to submit to  the
> >OSX Store. We are facing the same problems. I can find almost ZERO info on
> >what needs to be done to submit the app.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Todd
> >
> >> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero <at>
> >>earthednet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
> >> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
> >>
> >> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle
> >>of the provisioning profile to
> >org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
> >setting, and I set the internal App ID to
> >org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
> >>
> >> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
> >>
> >> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was
> >>a list of possible complaints the
> >standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least
> >some diagnostic things one could do.
> >>
> >> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <javascript:;>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 


Sent from Matwetwe <http://www.about.me/beugelaar>


From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 19:35:52 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:35:52 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <D31862B7.7DAEB%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <CACjPeOSmOz7aLHpyyHzJoeZNDF5uWR51iW72UZwGJmQcrvkYOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<D31862B7.7DAEB%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <1FC1BFD3-FAFF-4505-A8D6-E506A37271CF@earthednet.org>

Scott:
Yes, I?ve experienced this. I do think there could be some kind of ?advice? document, blog, or something that puts some of the Apple jargon into livecode understandable terms, though. From the XCode error message, I thought the problem was the certificate (wild goose chase) but it was actually a minor detail in the provisioning profile that looked like it had nothing to do with my installation.

Oh well. Thanks for the comments,
Bill

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> 
> Speaking as someone who took a stab at this
> (http://tactilemedia.com/download/How_to_publish_on_iOS_83013.pdf),
> it's a major amount of work that almost needs to be a part time job.  Not
> only does Apple change details of the process and add features to the
> system, but it updates/rearranges the tools and changes the layout of
> developer portal.  And once Apple makes changes, LiveCode makes changes to
> accommodate them.  So all the screenshots and step by step instructions
> you provide easily become out of date.
> 
> All of this, in addition to things that just come of nowhere, like the
> recent expiration of Apple's Worldwide Developer Certificate, make
> documenting the process a demanding effort.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/23/16, 1:29 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Todd Fabacher"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of tfabacher at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hello Bill,
>> 
>> Please please if you have any info on the steps of how to submit to  the
>> OSX Store. We are facing the same problems. I can find almost ZERO info on
>> what needs to be done to submit the app.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Todd
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero <prothero <at>
>>> earthednet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS profile.?
>>> 
>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the bundle
>>> of the provisioning profile to
>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
>> setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>> 
>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>> 
>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there was
>>> a list of possible complaints the
>> standalone builder would make, with possible solutions, or at least
>> some diagnostic things one could do.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 19:37:05 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:37:05 -0700
Subject: Can a widget be in the background?
Message-ID: <505895FF-E85D-42BD-B8F7-A37BE9FC20F4@earthednet.org>

I?m about the replace a menubar with the menubar widget in DP16. What I?m wondering is if this can be set up so it?s on every card, like objects can.

Best,
Bill



William Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
prothero at earthednet.org






From mkoob at rogers.com  Wed Mar 23 19:42:11 2016
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:42:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CEF glitches
In-Reply-To: <56F2E048.4040207@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1280F4195EA24960A10F6D2B45059533@i7>
	<56F2E048.4040207@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1458776531941-4702564.post@n4.nabble.com>

Thanks for adding to the bug report.

I see the same thing on Mac OS X Yosemite 10.10.5 with LiveCode 6.7.3.
- in Activity Monitor I also see two instances of rev browser-cefprocess
PIDs: 4289 & 4290 (this will vary of course)
---4290 has an application icon while 4289 does not.
- However if I call revBrowserInstances I get only get 1 instance returned.
- if I close the browser with revBrowserClose there is still one instance
showing in Activity monitor PID 4289 still with no application icon.
- if I open a browser instance again there are again two instances 4289 and
4323.
----4323 now has the application icon

Interesting to see this affects Windows. I figured it was a Mac issue.  The
one difference there is though is that when I quit the LC IDE I get a crash
and a crash report.   

Is anyone else seeing this?

Martin 






--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/CEF-glitches-tp4702534p4702564.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 20:28:16 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:28:16 -0400
Subject: [OT] batch image compression
Message-ID: <1837968C-13E6-4015-8CE4-7F757020FE8A@gmail.com>

I use a great Mac program that batch compresses images extremely fast, and have been using it at work a lot recently. A colleague is due to take over the compressing, but he?s using Windows.

What are the best Windows batch image compression applications? At the very least it would need to be able to choose a compression level for the batch, but a perfect solution would be to be able to compress to a specified file size, for the whole batch. Meaning that the compression quality would be changed for each image in order to meet the file size.


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 21:58:25 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:58:25 +0800
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV-_pmLwzPkrrvvETj8Y+h6cWV-evvtQpGbYhiA3oWqTYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com> <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>
	<56F15E94.1010606@cogapp.com>
	<CAH-=WV-_pmLwzPkrrvvETj8Y+h6cWV-evvtQpGbYhiA3oWqTYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kjAsVkB5FE94da5gBxSKiYkatF=Miv7z-jCp4yuO111Xg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Roland Huettmann
<roland.huettmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was searching for "file", "detailed file", "detailed files".

You can't be using LC8dp15 or greater because all I have to do is type
in 'detaile' and the list of hits is reduced to 3 with the one you are
looking for quite visible. If I type 'detailed fi' there is only one
hit and it's clearly the one you want:

the [{ detailed | long }] files

Since dp15 the Dictionary has been very much improved. Even when
working in LC 6 or 7 I keep LC 8 open so I can use it's Dictionary
because it's search feature is better.
>
> Anyway, I would appreciate a function giving the same pointing at just one
> selected file (not files). I will use my custom function doing that.

I generally find it a lot easier just to move the files I wish to work
on into a single folder, then declare that the defaultFolder. If there
is only one file in there then 'the detailed files' will report on the
one file. Alternatively you can always:

put shell("ls -l /hardDrive/User/Folder/FileToWorkOn.mbox") into tFileInfo

Look up 'shell' in the LC Dictionary for it's description

Use your favourite man page reader to look up all of the options for
the ls shell command

HTH



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 22:58:58 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:58:58 +0800
Subject: Would love to see this blog with 1,001 Uses stay FRESH
In-Reply-To: <255D4449-6C33-46F3-9915-70E3E8AC7775@gmail.com>
References: <CAGV_Z3BFzv=oJ63HW_-f8=8N2RAj_fP8vWrX3u6DkLDQESPsLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<255D4449-6C33-46F3-9915-70E3E8AC7775@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kg=LsBwxvQRxjaahz-G+EoKcq=TQ6pswZ+vJu2sAhWDoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Peter W A Wood <peterwawood at gmail.com> wrote:
>  The first is that people are not submitting possible entries. The second is I don't have time...

If you are on OS X you can create an Automator application (not
workflow) that will auto Quit after it's sent out an email to this
List asking for people to contribute. You can then use Calendar to
create  a repeating event every 4 or 6 months and set it's alarm to
open your Send Email Automator application.

Every 4/6 months you'll be reminded of the time you've saved when you
see your Auto email on this List.

The only gotcha is you need to run your Send Email application first
before having Calendar do it so you can tick off Gatekeeper's warning
that it's a non-recognised application. But even if you forget this
Calendar should give you a warning that it can't open the app the
first time it tries to run.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 23 23:06:47 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:06:47 -0700
Subject: Can a widget be in the background?
In-Reply-To: <505895FF-E85D-42BD-B8F7-A37BE9FC20F4@earthednet.org>
References: <505895FF-E85D-42BD-B8F7-A37BE9FC20F4@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <8F38D17B-1D33-4CE0-8185-47D289E50263@earthednet.org>

Please excuse me for the trivial questions. I found that a group can be a shared background object. 
But, I?m wondering if for a stack with quite a few cards, a new group with a shared background setting will only appear on new cards. 

If I create a new stack with several cards, load several UI elements on the first card, group them, then set them to ?Background Behavior?, they do not show up on all of the existing cards.

So, is there a way to make that background group then show up on all cards? Or, is it simply a matter of copying that group to each card that I want it on and setting ?Shared behavior? in the inspector?

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:37 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> I?m about the replace a menubar with the menubar widget in DP16. What I?m wondering is if this can be set up so it?s on every card, like objects can.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> prothero at earthednet.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Mar 23 23:30:02 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:30:02 -0700
Subject: Can a widget be in the background?
In-Reply-To: <8F38D17B-1D33-4CE0-8185-47D289E50263@earthednet.org>
References: <505895FF-E85D-42BD-B8F7-A37BE9FC20F4@earthednet.org>
	<8F38D17B-1D33-4CE0-8185-47D289E50263@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <D318ABDC.7DB54%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Use "Place Group" under the Object menu to place the group on any card
that doesn't already have it.  If you copy and paste, you'll wind up with
multiple copies of the group, instead of one group shared across multiple
cards.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/23/16, 8:06 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:

>Please excuse me for the trivial questions. I found that a group can be a
>shared background object.
>But, I?m wondering if for a stack with quite a few cards, a new group
>with a shared background setting will only appear on new cards.
>
>If I create a new stack with several cards, load several UI elements on
>the first card, group them, then set them to ?Background Behavior?, they
>do not show up on all of the existing cards.
>
>So, is there a way to make that background group then show up on all
>cards? Or, is it simply a matter of copying that group to each card that
>I want it on and setting ?Shared behavior? in the inspector?
>
>Best,
>Bill
>
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:37 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>wrote:
>> 
>> I?m about the replace a menubar with the menubar widget in DP16. What
>>I?m wondering is if this can be set up so it?s on every card, like
>>objects can.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>> prothero at earthednet.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Wed Mar 23 23:36:44 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:36:44 +0800
Subject: Mac App Store Submission
In-Reply-To: <CACjPeORSdqvSizt9Ztf73VdB1LtZG+dwU=wYagX0UOHd5fzdAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACjPeORSdqvSizt9Ztf73VdB1LtZG+dwU=wYagX0UOHd5fzdAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kh7EtfH-uDRGhVhf7NWidnX1aD729P7QCnBcUKMT74Q4A@mail.gmail.com>

Wouldn't a better option be for this to reside here:

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tree/community-docs/docs/guides

The guide would then be readily available via the Dictionary, a
logical place to look rather than just another URL one has to find. It
would also mean the guide is available offline.

It also should mean that in this constantly changing environment the
'Community' can help add the many permutations that any one single
person is never going to know.



From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 24 00:37:12 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 04:37:12 +0000
Subject: Anyone Using Atom for LC Script Editing
Message-ID: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>

I'm contemplating moving from BBEdit to Atom

Any thoughts Atom as an editor for LC scripts?

This is "freaking amazing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFAzqvYoHJs

Do we have a package to colorize LC  or RevIgniter scripts?

BR

From monte at appisle.net  Thu Mar 24 00:43:36 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 15:43:36 +1100
Subject: Anyone Using Atom for LC Script Editing
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <333ADEA9-E5EC-4603-8DFD-6CC149888D05@appisle.net>


> On 24 Mar 2016, at 3:37 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> I'm contemplating moving from BBEdit to Atom
> 
> Any thoughts Atom as an editor for LC scripts?
> 
> This is "freaking amazing"
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFAzqvYoHJs
> 
> Do we have a package to colorize LC  or RevIgniter scripts?

Yes just search for livecode. The language pack includes syntax highlighting, code completion, snippets and live linting (script compilation errors) for LCS (server, scripts & script only stacks) and LCB. There?s some setup for the linting.

Cheers

Monte


From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 24 01:02:00 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 22:02:00 -0700
Subject: Can a widget be in the background?
In-Reply-To: <D318ABDC.7DB54%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <505895FF-E85D-42BD-B8F7-A37BE9FC20F4@earthednet.org>
	<8F38D17B-1D33-4CE0-8185-47D289E50263@earthednet.org>
	<D318ABDC.7DB54%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <3B611E74-4092-4EA5-9EAF-8BC0F12F9ABE@earthednet.org>

Scott,
Thanks! You are the man!
Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:30 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> 
> Use "Place Group" under the Object menu to place the group on any card
> that doesn't already have it.  If you copy and paste, you'll wind up with
> multiple copies of the group, instead of one group shared across multiple
> cards.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/23/16, 8:06 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
>> Please excuse me for the trivial questions. I found that a group can be a
>> shared background object.
>> But, I?m wondering if for a stack with quite a few cards, a new group
>> with a shared background setting will only appear on new cards.
>> 
>> If I create a new stack with several cards, load several UI elements on
>> the first card, group them, then set them to ?Background Behavior?, they
>> do not show up on all of the existing cards.
>> 
>> So, is there a way to make that background group then show up on all
>> cards? Or, is it simply a matter of copying that group to each card that
>> I want it on and setting ?Shared behavior? in the inspector?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:37 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I?m about the replace a menubar with the menubar widget in DP16. What
>>> I?m wondering is if this can be set up so it?s on every card, like
>>> objects can.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From th.douez at gmail.com  Thu Mar 24 02:56:40 2016
From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 07:56:40 +0100
Subject: [ANN] guides for positioning of controls
In-Reply-To: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8ucO5QLr_G9G+756q4jCgE+-7FuR8vGa2_J-4HD00a1B0C8A@mail.gmail.com>

Hallo Bernd,

Ich gratuliere dir zu diesem Plug-In.
Gro?artig!

Nice piece of art, kudos :)

Thierry

2016-03-23 22:26 GMT+01:00
BNig <bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de>:

> I
> http://berndniggemann.on-rev.com/guides/bnGuides_0_4.livecode.zip
> -------------------------
>
> Kind regards
> Bernd
>



-- 
------------------------------------------------
Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage


From tore.nilsen at me.com  Thu Mar 24 03:39:26 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:39:26 +0100
Subject: Can a widget be in the background?
In-Reply-To: <3B611E74-4092-4EA5-9EAF-8BC0F12F9ABE@earthednet.org>
References: <505895FF-E85D-42BD-B8F7-A37BE9FC20F4@earthednet.org>
	<8F38D17B-1D33-4CE0-8185-47D289E50263@earthednet.org>
	<D318ABDC.7DB54%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<3B611E74-4092-4EA5-9EAF-8BC0F12F9ABE@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <8690F13B-A515-402B-81EC-8BA3CC5F9CE2@me.com>

A group with the background behaviour will appear on each new card you create after you have made the group. If you know you are going to need a background on many cards, then make the background group on the first card, before you add the rest of the cards.

Tore
> 24. mar. 2016 kl. 06.02 skrev Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>:
> 
> Scott,
> Thanks! You are the man!
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:30 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Use "Place Group" under the Object menu to place the group on any card
>> that doesn't already have it.  If you copy and paste, you'll wind up with
>> multiple copies of the group, instead of one group shared across multiple
>> cards.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/23/16, 8:06 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
>> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Please excuse me for the trivial questions. I found that a group can be a
>>> shared background object.
>>> But, I?m wondering if for a stack with quite a few cards, a new group
>>> with a shared background setting will only appear on new cards.
>>> 
>>> If I create a new stack with several cards, load several UI elements on
>>> the first card, group them, then set them to ?Background Behavior?, they
>>> do not show up on all of the existing cards.
>>> 
>>> So, is there a way to make that background group then show up on all
>>> cards? Or, is it simply a matter of copying that group to each card that
>>> I want it on and setting ?Shared behavior? in the inspector?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:37 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?m about the replace a menubar with the menubar widget in DP16. What
>>>> I?m wondering is if this can be set up so it?s on every card, like
>>>> objects can.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Mar 24 03:45:26 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:45:26 +0100
Subject: Anyone Using Atom for LC Script Editing
In-Reply-To: <333ADEA9-E5EC-4603-8DFD-6CC149888D05@appisle.net>
References: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<333ADEA9-E5EC-4603-8DFD-6CC149888D05@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <DCA3A3F1-34C5-4FDD-9783-12168C0B7031@m-r-d.de>

Hi,

there are several Linter packages when searching for Linter. So tried to use APM, which was not installed on my Mac.

It took me some time to find out that i can install APM very easily from within ATOM using the menu Atom->Install Shell Commands.

Wouldn?t it make sense to add a note on that page how to install APM using the menu, epecially for new Atom users?

Is Peter TB Brett maintaining that page?

Matthias


> Am 24.03.2016 um 05:43 schrieb Monte Goulding <monte at appisle.net>:
> 
> 
>> On 24 Mar 2016, at 3:37 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm contemplating moving from BBEdit to Atom
>> 
>> Any thoughts Atom as an editor for LC scripts?
>> 
>> This is "freaking amazing"
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFAzqvYoHJs
>> 
>> Do we have a package to colorize LC  or RevIgniter scripts?
> 
> Yes just search for livecode. The language pack includes syntax highlighting, code completion, snippets and live linting (script compilation errors) for LCS (server, scripts & script only stacks) and LCB. There?s some setup for the linting.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar 24 04:21:25 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:21:25 +0000
Subject: Anyone Using Atom for LC Script Editing
In-Reply-To: <DCA3A3F1-34C5-4FDD-9783-12168C0B7031@m-r-d.de>
References: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<333ADEA9-E5EC-4603-8DFD-6CC149888D05@appisle.net>
	<DCA3A3F1-34C5-4FDD-9783-12168C0B7031@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <56F3A385.2050706@livecode.com>

On 24/03/2016 07:45, Matthias Rebbe wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there are several Linter packages when searching for Linter. So tried to use APM, which was not installed on my Mac.
>
> It took me some time to find out that i can install APM very easily from within ATOM using the menu Atom->Install Shell Commands.
>
> Wouldn?t it make sense to add a note on that page how to install APM using the menu, epecially for new Atom users?
>
> Is Peter TB Brett maintaining that page?

I'm pretty certain that all the info you need is on the 
"language-livecode" package's page:

https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode

                                                  Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Thu Mar 24 04:06:07 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 01:06:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] guides for positioning of controls
In-Reply-To: <CAO8ucO5QLr_G9G+756q4jCgE+-7FuR8vGa2_J-4HD00a1B0C8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1458768410235-4702554.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CAO8ucO5QLr_G9G+756q4jCgE+-7FuR8vGa2_J-4HD00a1B0C8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1458806767816-4702578.post@n4.nabble.com>

Thierry Douez wrote
> Nice piece of art, kudos :)
> 
> Thierry

Thanks for kind comments.


Sorry, yesterday while I wanted to change a typo in the dialog for auto
install of the stack as plugin I broke inadvertendly the install mechanism.

The installation into the plugins folder should now proceed correctly after
the first start of the stack.

apart from the installation problems the functionality of the plugin was not
affected. So if anyone had to do a manual install of the stack in the plugin
folder then it is all fine.

The new, corrected version uses the same URL

http://berndniggemann.on-rev.com/guides/bnGuides_0_4.livecode.zip

Kind regards



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-guides-for-positioning-of-controls-tp4702554p4702578.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu Mar 24 05:39:16 2016
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:39:16 +0100
Subject: Anyone Using Atom for LC Script Editing
In-Reply-To: <56F3A385.2050706@livecode.com>
References: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<333ADEA9-E5EC-4603-8DFD-6CC149888D05@appisle.net>
	<DCA3A3F1-34C5-4FDD-9783-12168C0B7031@m-r-d.de>
	<56F3A385.2050706@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <F345F417-39BC-4CD8-9C75-01ED15D85D65@m-r-d.de>


I was referring to the APM installation itself.
If a system does not have APM installed and the user is new to Atom and wants to use the APM method, it might be easier to know that using the ?Install Shell Commands? menu in Atom will install APM.

A general note like  ?If your system does not have APM installed, then you can  install it using the menu entry ?Install Shell Commands? unter the Atom menu? or something similar would be helpful.




> Am 24.03.2016 um 09:21 schrieb Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com <mailto:peter.brett at livecode.com>>:
> 
> On 24/03/2016 07:45, Matthias Rebbe wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> there are several Linter packages when searching for Linter. So tried to use APM, which was not installed on my Mac.
>> 
>> It took me some time to find out that i can install APM very easily from within ATOM using the menu Atom->Install Shell Commands.
>> 
>> Wouldn?t it make sense to add a note on that page how to install APM using the menu, epecially for new Atom users?
>> 
>> Is Peter TB Brett maintaining that page?
> 
> I'm pretty certain that all the info you need is on the "language-livecode" package's page:
> 
> https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode <https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode>
> 
>                                                 Peter
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com <mailto:peter.brett at livecode.com>>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/ <https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar 24 05:46:47 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:46:47 +0000
Subject: Anyone Using Atom for LC Script Editing
In-Reply-To: <F345F417-39BC-4CD8-9C75-01ED15D85D65@m-r-d.de>
References: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<333ADEA9-E5EC-4603-8DFD-6CC149888D05@appisle.net>
	<DCA3A3F1-34C5-4FDD-9783-12168C0B7031@m-r-d.de>
	<56F3A385.2050706@livecode.com>
	<F345F417-39BC-4CD8-9C75-01ED15D85D65@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <56F3B787.3040202@livecode.com>



On 24/03/2016 09:39, Matthias Rebbe wrote:
>
> I was referring to the APM installation itself. If a system does not
> have APM installed and the user is new to Atom and wants to use the
> APM method, it might be easier to know that using the ?Install Shell
> Commands? menu in Atom will install APM.
>
> A general note like  ?If your system does not have APM installed,
> then you can  install it using the menu entry ?Install Shell
> Commands? unter the Atom menu? or something similar would be
> helpful.
>

I am very confused.

apm is mentioned exactly once in the language-livecode docs, as 
something that is a completely optional alternative to people who are 
command-line addicts.

The _very next line_ contains a link to the Atom documentation that 
explains, _in detail_ how to install packages and, indeed, apm.

I don't think any more info is required here.  If you think it's so 
confusing, I'll just delete the mention of apm entirely.

                                  Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From matthiasrebbe at me.com  Thu Mar 24 05:50:31 2016
From: matthiasrebbe at me.com (Matthias Rebbe)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:50:31 +0100
Subject: Anyone Using Atom for LC Script Editing
In-Reply-To: <56F3B787.3040202@livecode.com>
References: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<333ADEA9-E5EC-4603-8DFD-6CC149888D05@appisle.net>
	<DCA3A3F1-34C5-4FDD-9783-12168C0B7031@m-r-d.de>
	<56F3A385.2050706@livecode.com>
	<F345F417-39BC-4CD8-9C75-01ED15D85D65@m-r-d.de>
	<56F3B787.3040202@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <DD254BE2-6185-4EC5-9F82-FF3381CF497D@me.com>

It was meant as a suggestion not as criticism.
Just forget it and leave as it is. 


> Am 24.03.2016 um 10:46 schrieb Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>:
> 
> 
> 
> On 24/03/2016 09:39, Matthias Rebbe wrote:
>> 
>> I was referring to the APM installation itself. If a system does not
>> have APM installed and the user is new to Atom and wants to use the
>> APM method, it might be easier to know that using the ?Install Shell
>> Commands? menu in Atom will install APM.
>> 
>> A general note like  ?If your system does not have APM installed,
>> then you can  install it using the menu entry ?Install Shell
>> Commands? unter the Atom menu? or something similar would be
>> helpful.
>> 
> 
> I am very confused.
> 
> apm is mentioned exactly once in the language-livecode docs, as something that is a completely optional alternative to people who are command-line addicts.
> 
> The _very next line_ contains a link to the Atom documentation that explains, _in detail_ how to install packages and, indeed, apm.
> 
> I don't think any more info is required here.  If you think it's so confusing, I'll just delete the mention of apm entirely.
> 
>                                 Peter
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar 24 05:53:51 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:53:51 +0000
Subject: Anyone Using Atom for LC Script Editing
In-Reply-To: <DD254BE2-6185-4EC5-9F82-FF3381CF497D@me.com>
References: <etPan.56f36ef7.7cbe89de.437@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<333ADEA9-E5EC-4603-8DFD-6CC149888D05@appisle.net>
	<DCA3A3F1-34C5-4FDD-9783-12168C0B7031@m-r-d.de>
	<56F3A385.2050706@livecode.com>
	<F345F417-39BC-4CD8-9C75-01ED15D85D65@m-r-d.de>
	<56F3B787.3040202@livecode.com>
	<DD254BE2-6185-4EC5-9F82-FF3381CF497D@me.com>
Message-ID: <56F3B92F.3020400@livecode.com>

On 24/03/2016 09:50, Matthias Rebbe wrote:
> It was meant as a suggestion not as criticism.
> Just forget it and leave as it is.

It's okay, I fixed it.  This is probably clearer anyway.

https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/commit/9654e147bf3b9061446df9509b30926ce71d0c86

Thank you for suggesting the improvement.

                                  Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Thu Mar 24 06:03:01 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:03:01 +0100
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kjAsVkB5FE94da5gBxSKiYkatF=Miv7z-jCp4yuO111Xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com> <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>
	<56F15E94.1010606@cogapp.com>
	<CAH-=WV-_pmLwzPkrrvvETj8Y+h6cWV-evvtQpGbYhiA3oWqTYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+uh5kjAsVkB5FE94da5gBxSKiYkatF=Miv7z-jCp4yuO111Xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV8y+nA1Pqg0+RjRZGChi2RnpABPH1ZPUyRbMhuOxq2BUQ@mail.gmail.com>

Kay wrote: >You can't be using LC8dp15 or greater because all I have to do
is type
>in 'detaile' and the list of hits is reduced to 3 with the one you are
>looking for quite visible. If I type 'detailed fi' there is only one
>hit and it's clearly the one you want:

You are absolutely right regarding Dictionary. I was looking in the
dictionary of the 7.x version, switching versions between 7.x and 8.0.0 dp
16 while using 8 dp16 for scripting. Files are still opened automatically
in 7 on my system as I think (maybe wrongly) that last version 7 is more
stable.

It is much better in 8.0.0 dp15/16! Just have to get used to this new
Dictionary.

---

--- Reading File Properties ("the detaile files")

It may be easier to move the file into just one default folder. Agreed. But
then for general purpose you must enforce it, otherwise it could fail.
Still I believe it is better to be able to point at just one single file
(for example: "the detailed file" instead of "the detailed files").

--- OFF TOPIC: Writing File Properties:

What I also did was changing file properties such as creation date and time
using a separate Windows command line program and calling it through the
Shell command. I find it VERY convenient since the actual file creation
date is not of importance. The content of the file is important. For
example, a Word document has a date of the Content (a letter for example,
or a contract). Why should this not be reflected in a *persistent* date of
the file itself? Then it is easy to sort and filter files by dates which
are meaningful. (Here users are not interested in the date when the
physical file was created, but in the date of the document itself.) Maybe
it will be possible to implement this using LCB for all platforms?

Roland





On 24 March 2016 at 02:58, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Roland Huettmann
> <roland.huettmann at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was searching for "file", "detailed file", "detailed files".
>
> You can't be using LC8dp15 or greater because all I have to do is type
> in 'detaile' and the list of hits is reduced to 3 with the one you are
> looking for quite visible. If I type 'detailed fi' there is only one
> hit and it's clearly the one you want:
>
> the [{ detailed | long }] files
>
> Since dp15 the Dictionary has been very much improved. Even when
> working in LC 6 or 7 I keep LC 8 open so I can use it's Dictionary
> because it's search feature is better.
> >
> > Anyway, I would appreciate a function giving the same pointing at just
> one
> > selected file (not files). I will use my custom function doing that.
>
> I generally find it a lot easier just to move the files I wish to work
> on into a single folder, then declare that the defaultFolder. If there
> is only one file in there then 'the detailed files' will report on the
> one file. Alternatively you can always:
>
> put shell("ls -l /hardDrive/User/Folder/FileToWorkOn.mbox") into tFileInfo
>
> Look up 'shell' in the LC Dictionary for it's description
>
> Use your favourite man page reader to look up all of the options for
> the ls shell command
>
> HTH
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From hh at livecode.org  Thu Mar 24 05:37:22 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 02:37:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor
In-Reply-To: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com>
References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1458812242948-4702584.post@n4.nabble.com>

Was pretty clear after that.


Peter TB Brett wrote
>  [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor
> Oct 20, 2015; 3:58pm ? by Peter TB Brett
> Hi all,
> 
>         == Atom language-livecode package 0.6.0 ==
> 
> The "language-livecode" package for the Atom editor (https://atom.io/) 
> provides syntax highlighting and indentation support for editing 
> LiveCode Builder (.lcb), LiveCode Script (.livecodescript), and LiveCode 
> Server (.lc / .irev) source files.
> 
> == Installation
> 
> Install the "language-livecode" package from the Atom user interface.
> 
> == Notable changes in 0.6.0
> 
> * LiveCode Script grammar and snippets generated from documentation
> * Support for script-only stacks (`.livecodescript`)
> * Linting & syntax checking for LiveCode Script files
> * Initial linting support for LiveCode Builder source files
> 
> == Reporting issues
> 
> Please report issues to
> https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list

> use-livecode at .runrev

> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-language-livecode-0-6-0-for-Atom-Editor-tp4697719p4702584.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu Mar 24 08:35:37 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:35:37 -0400
Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor
In-Reply-To: <1458812242948-4702584.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com>
	<1458812242948-4702584.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMiSAd9UC6sCqmL3c3JkL=WJ4ctgESap6CoN90UdF4Y0g@mail.gmail.com>

Did we ever get folding to work in atom?  I tried it, again, yesterday, but
it doesn't seem to work for scripts.

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 5:37 AM, -hh <hh at livecode.org> wrote:

> Was pretty clear after that.
>
>
> Peter TB Brett wrote
> >  [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor
> > Oct 20, 2015; 3:58pm ? by Peter TB Brett
> > Hi all,
> >
> >         == Atom language-livecode package 0.6.0 ==
> >
> > The "language-livecode" package for the Atom editor (https://atom.io/)
> > provides syntax highlighting and indentation support for editing
> > LiveCode Builder (.lcb), LiveCode Script (.livecodescript), and LiveCode
> > Server (.lc / .irev) source files.
> >
> > == Installation
> >
> > Install the "language-livecode" package from the Atom user interface.
> >
> > == Notable changes in 0.6.0
> >
> > * LiveCode Script grammar and snippets generated from documentation
> > * Support for script-only stacks (`.livecodescript`)
> > * Linting & syntax checking for LiveCode Script files
> > * Initial linting support for LiveCode Builder source files
> >
> > == Reporting issues
> >
> > Please report issues to
> > https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
>
> > use-livecode at .runrev
>
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-language-livecode-0-6-0-for-Atom-Editor-tp4697719p4702584.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar 24 08:37:58 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:37:58 +0000
Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMiSAd9UC6sCqmL3c3JkL=WJ4ctgESap6CoN90UdF4Y0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com>
	<1458812242948-4702584.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<CADCoycMiSAd9UC6sCqmL3c3JkL=WJ4ctgESap6CoN90UdF4Y0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F3DFA6.6010405@livecode.com>



On 24/03/2016 12:35, Mike Kerner wrote:
> Did we ever get folding to work in atom?  I tried it, again, yesterday, but
> it doesn't seem to work for scripts.
>

I don't think we've quite got the right syntax definitions in for 
enabling code folding.  Would be definitely interested in merging the 
changes needed to make that work.

                                    Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Thu Mar 24 09:46:34 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 14:46:34 +0100
Subject: Can a widget be in the background?
In-Reply-To: <8690F13B-A515-402B-81EC-8BA3CC5F9CE2@me.com>
References: <505895FF-E85D-42BD-B8F7-A37BE9FC20F4@earthednet.org>
	<8F38D17B-1D33-4CE0-8185-47D289E50263@earthednet.org>
	<D318ABDC.7DB54%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<3B611E74-4092-4EA5-9EAF-8BC0F12F9ABE@earthednet.org>
	<8690F13B-A515-402B-81EC-8BA3CC5F9CE2@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV8DtZs_j7zUBFpyrL_wnPBT6Eum3L8hU5ROUAcyLx15Cw@mail.gmail.com>

Well, it is true, but not too transparent to new users, and even some more
experienced users need to really study first.

I was thinking that in edit mode and without having to check the Property
Inspector there could be a visual hint about a groups behaviour (background
icon or color). A tool tip in edit mode could also supply information with
how many cards this background group is shared with.

The question is how to make this sharing more intuitive and obvious to new
users for groups of one or more controls.

On 24 March 2016 at 08:39, Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com> wrote:

> A group with the background behaviour will appear on each new card you
> create after you have made the group. If you know you are going to need a
> background on many cards, then make the background group on the first card,
> before you add the rest of the cards.
>
> Tore
> > 24. mar. 2016 kl. 06.02 skrev Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>:
> >
> > Scott,
> > Thanks! You are the man!
> > Best,
> > Bill
> >
> > William Prothero
> > http://es.earthednet.org
> >
> >> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:30 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Use "Place Group" under the Object menu to place the group on any card
> >> that doesn't already have it.  If you copy and paste, you'll wind up
> with
> >> multiple copies of the group, instead of one group shared across
> multiple
> >> cards.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Scott Rossi
> >> Creative Director
> >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/23/16, 8:06 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
> >> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> >> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Please excuse me for the trivial questions. I found that a group can
> be a
> >>> shared background object.
> >>> But, I?m wondering if for a stack with quite a few cards, a new group
> >>> with a shared background setting will only appear on new cards.
> >>>
> >>> If I create a new stack with several cards, load several UI elements on
> >>> the first card, group them, then set them to ?Background Behavior?,
> they
> >>> do not show up on all of the existing cards.
> >>>
> >>> So, is there a way to make that background group then show up on all
> >>> cards? Or, is it simply a matter of copying that group to each card
> that
> >>> I want it on and setting ?Shared behavior? in the inspector?
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:37 PM, William Prothero <
> prothero at earthednet.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I?m about the replace a menubar with the menubar widget in DP16. What
> >>>> I?m wondering is if this can be set up so it?s on every card, like
> >>>> objects can.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> Bill
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> >>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> >>>> prothero at earthednet.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 24 11:19:57 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:19:57 -0700
Subject: Can a widget be in the background?
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV8DtZs_j7zUBFpyrL_wnPBT6Eum3L8hU5ROUAcyLx15Cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <505895FF-E85D-42BD-B8F7-A37BE9FC20F4@earthednet.org>
	<8F38D17B-1D33-4CE0-8185-47D289E50263@earthednet.org>
	<D318ABDC.7DB54%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<3B611E74-4092-4EA5-9EAF-8BC0F12F9ABE@earthednet.org>
	<8690F13B-A515-402B-81EC-8BA3CC5F9CE2@me.com>
	<CAH-=WV8DtZs_j7zUBFpyrL_wnPBT6Eum3L8hU5ROUAcyLx15Cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A6AB24-7DD4-44C8-8F4E-7663812555E8@earthednet.org>

I guess I'd have to call myself a moderately experienced user, but still learning. The way I found out about how to set a group as a background was through the nice dp16 tutorial. But then, the next time I tried to make a background control, I had forgotten. I went back through the tutorial and saw how to do it. But since I was working with an existing stack, I didn't know how to get it placed on other cards. Thanks to the generous comment of Scott, I got it. 

There will always be a need for a list like this. There will also be a need for some overview materials that are a bit longer than dictionary entries, that briefly explain how to do specific operations. The lessons on the livecode site are very good at that, but sometimes not advanced enough.

I really appreciate the help and patience of experts and non-experts on this list. 
Thanks, all,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 6:46 AM, Roland Huettmann <roland.huettmann at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, it is true, but not too transparent to new users, and even some more
> experienced users need to really study first.
> 
> I was thinking that in edit mode and without having to check the Property
> Inspector there could be a visual hint about a groups behaviour (background
> icon or color). A tool tip in edit mode could also supply information with
> how many cards this background group is shared with.
> 
> The question is how to make this sharing more intuitive and obvious to new
> users for groups of one or more controls.
> 
>> On 24 March 2016 at 08:39, Tore Nilsen <tore.nilsen at me.com> wrote:
>> 
>> A group with the background behaviour will appear on each new card you
>> create after you have made the group. If you know you are going to need a
>> background on many cards, then make the background group on the first card,
>> before you add the rest of the cards.
>> 
>> Tore
>>> 24. mar. 2016 kl. 06.02 skrev Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>> Thanks! You are the man!
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William Prothero
>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:30 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Use "Place Group" under the Object menu to place the group on any card
>>>> that doesn't already have it.  If you copy and paste, you'll wind up
>> with
>>>> multiple copies of the group, instead of one group shared across
>> multiple
>>>> cards.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>> Creative Director
>>>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/23/16, 8:06 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
>>>> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>>>> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Please excuse me for the trivial questions. I found that a group can
>> be a
>>>>> shared background object.
>>>>> But, I?m wondering if for a stack with quite a few cards, a new group
>>>>> with a shared background setting will only appear on new cards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If I create a new stack with several cards, load several UI elements on
>>>>> the first card, group them, then set them to ?Background Behavior?,
>> they
>>>>> do not show up on all of the existing cards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, is there a way to make that background group then show up on all
>>>>> cards? Or, is it simply a matter of copying that group to each card
>> that
>>>>> I want it on and setting ?Shared behavior? in the inspector?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:37 PM, William Prothero <
>> prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?m about the replace a menubar with the menubar widget in DP16. What
>>>>>> I?m wondering is if this can be set up so it?s on every card, like
>>>>>> objects can.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 24 12:29:03 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:29:03 -0700
Subject: Socket Is Not Open
In-Reply-To: <A5439DC3-4413-4A30-AEEE-CBE18BD545E8@clearvisiontech.com>
References: <A5439DC3-4413-4A30-AEEE-CBE18BD545E8@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <56F415CF.9020309@fourthworld.com>

Dan Friedman wrote:
 > I have a client that is getting a "socket is not open" error when my
 > windows (LC 7.0.1) application attempts to access the internet.  If
 > they login to their computer using a standard login it's fine.  But,
 > if they login to the computer using a domain, they get the "socket is
 > not open" error.  Any thoughts?

What is "standard login" in this context?

And by "domain" do you mean LAN network segment or domain name?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From bonnmike at gmail.com  Thu Mar 24 13:16:32 2016
From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:16:32 -0600
Subject: Socket Is Not Open
In-Reply-To: <56F415CF.9020309@fourthworld.com>
References: <A5439DC3-4413-4A30-AEEE-CBE18BD545E8@clearvisiontech.com>
	<56F415CF.9020309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1cpSqaobJr8HdykU0vr7fDPwFu6eo0VW=Q=nz8WWjDEQ5g4w@mail.gmail.com>

You might ask the network admin if the domain controller sets a proxy
server.  If so, you might try setting the httpProxy to the correct values
and see if that helps.  Look at httpproxy in the dictionary.

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com
> wrote:

> Dan Friedman wrote:
> > I have a client that is getting a "socket is not open" error when my
> > windows (LC 7.0.1) application attempts to access the internet.  If
> > they login to their computer using a standard login it's fine.  But,
> > if they login to the computer using a domain, they get the "socket is
> > not open" error.  Any thoughts?
>
> What is "standard login" in this context?
>
> And by "domain" do you mean LAN network segment or domain name?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From dave at applicationinsight.com  Thu Mar 24 15:15:13 2016
From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:15:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Blog] Script Only Stacks
In-Reply-To: <8DD13772-8F5E-4382-975C-600ECE06EAD4@buffalo.edu>
References: <DBBE862A-8B63-4BEA-8471-E6955A75A7EE@buffalo.edu>
	<BE8CA60D-55FA-4B4F-A511-BB72E482FB76@netrin.com>
	<8DD13772-8F5E-4382-975C-600ECE06EAD4@buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <1458846913880-4702591.post@n4.nabble.com>

This is a follow up to the issue of bad line endings when working on a
scriptOnlyStack in Atom. 

Just to note that once I used a ".livecodescript" file extension rather than
".livecode" that I was once again able to use Atom as it's editor without
LiveCode objecting to the line endings...



-----
"The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time."
Peter M. Brigham 
--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Blog-Script-Only-Stacks-tp4701942p4702591.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 24 16:41:06 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 13:41:06 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16
Message-ID: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>

Folks:
I?m noticing a problem with the Project Browser in DP16. If you have two stacks open, then try to create a new card in the stack in the front, it creates doesn?t create a card in the selected stack. It appears at the top of the Project Browser, on a line by itself or in the other stack.

Closing the other stack (the one that you are not putting the new card on), doesn?t help. The card listing goes to the top of the project browser window.

Anybody else see this oddity? I?m trying hard to convert over to LC8, but some of these oddities are a bit troublesome. 

Best,
Bill





From jf_byrnes at comcast.net  Thu Mar 24 16:43:19 2016
From: jf_byrnes at comcast.net (Jim Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 15:43:19 -0500
Subject: Problem updating to Version 8 (DP16)
Message-ID: <nd1jh8$9n4$1@ger.gmane.org>

I have version 8 (DP 14) installed on my laptop running Ubuntu 14.04.

When I opened the start center there were a couple of buttons visible. 
One referred to version 7.xx and the other was an upgrade to DP 16. I 
clicked on the DP 16 button a download progress bar appeared. I must 
have lost my internet connection because when I checked back the 
progress bar was gone but Livecode was not upgraded to DP 16.

Closing and restarting the Start Center did not offer the upgrade 
anymore and even Help-->check for upgrades did nothing.

Could someone tell me how to get upgrades to work again?

Thanks,  Jim




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Thu Mar 24 18:21:43 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 22:21:43 +0000
Subject: Problem updating to Version 8 (DP16)
In-Reply-To: <nd1jh8$9n4$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <nd1jh8$9n4$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <56F46877.6010509@livecode.com>

On 24/03/2016 20:43, Jim Byrnes wrote:
> I have version 8 (DP 14) installed on my laptop running Ubuntu 14.04.
>
> When I opened the start center there were a couple of buttons visible.
> One referred to version 7.xx and the other was an upgrade to DP 16. I
> clicked on the DP 16 button a download progress bar appeared. I must
> have lost my internet connection because when I checked back the
> progress bar was gone but Livecode was not upgraded to DP 16.
>
> Closing and restarting the Start Center did not offer the upgrade
> anymore and even Help-->check for upgrades did nothing.
>
> Could someone tell me how to get upgrades to work again?

Hi Jim,

We have found that there are some editions for which the autoupdater 
will not work.  This was due to an error in the autoupdater's HTTPS support.

When upgrading from those editions, it's necessary to manually download 
the update.

If you're having difficulty with the "Check for updates" feature I do 
recommend downloading the installer for the version you're trying to 
update to from https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode

                                Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From dochawk at gmail.com  Thu Mar 24 19:40:09 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 16:40:09 -0700
Subject: losing groups while editing them when stack saves?
Message-ID: <CANQHZSEVfikEd4HDozGH7sxSxUt7E3t7WhC7C4_2c5Cfob5fuA@mail.gmail.com>

Do to losing large amounts of work at times, I have routines set up that
auto-save stacks.

I think, though, that I've noticed an issue--from time to time, I've lost
groups from cards.  Can it be that, as the group doesn't exist to the
engine while editing, that if the underlying stack is saved, it is saved
without the group in question?

And if so, is there some way to mark the stack dirty upon editing a group,
or to catch the edit group ?

-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From jf_byrnes at comcast.net  Thu Mar 24 20:31:31 2016
From: jf_byrnes at comcast.net (Jim Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 19:31:31 -0500
Subject: Problem updating to Version 8 (DP16)
In-Reply-To: <56F46877.6010509@livecode.com>
References: <nd1jh8$9n4$1@ger.gmane.org> <56F46877.6010509@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <nd20t4$knt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 03/24/2016 05:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 24/03/2016 20:43, Jim Byrnes wrote:
>> I have version 8 (DP 14) installed on my laptop running Ubuntu 14.04.
>>
>> When I opened the start center there were a couple of buttons visible.
>> One referred to version 7.xx and the other was an upgrade to DP 16. I
>> clicked on the DP 16 button a download progress bar appeared. I must
>> have lost my internet connection because when I checked back the
>> progress bar was gone but Livecode was not upgraded to DP 16.
>>
>> Closing and restarting the Start Center did not offer the upgrade
>> anymore and even Help-->check for upgrades did nothing.
>>
>> Could someone tell me how to get upgrades to work again?
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> We have found that there are some editions for which the autoupdater
> will not work.  This was due to an error in the autoupdater's HTTPS
> support.
>
> When upgrading from those editions, it's necessary to manually download
> the update.
>
> If you're having difficulty with the "Check for updates" feature I do
> recommend downloading the installer for the version you're trying to
> update to from https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode
>
>                                 Peter
>

Peter,

That worked. I now have DP 16 installed and running next to DP 14. Just 
in case I missed it, is there a way to have the installer update the 
installed version?

Thanks,  Jim




From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Mar 24 20:53:36 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 08:53:36 +0800
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CAH-=WV8y+nA1Pqg0+RjRZGChi2RnpABPH1ZPUyRbMhuOxq2BUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com> <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>
	<56F15E94.1010606@cogapp.com>
	<CAH-=WV-_pmLwzPkrrvvETj8Y+h6cWV-evvtQpGbYhiA3oWqTYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+uh5kjAsVkB5FE94da5gBxSKiYkatF=Miv7z-jCp4yuO111Xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAH-=WV8y+nA1Pqg0+RjRZGChi2RnpABPH1ZPUyRbMhuOxq2BUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kgAPDRH9X0DdLWWuujk3HbkwxkMW6APH1CHKgsfdyeorA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Roland Huettmann
> I find it VERY convenient since the actual file creation
> date is not of importance. The content of the file is important. For
> example, a Word document has a date of the Content (a letter for example,
> or a contract). Why should this not be reflected in a *persistent* date of
> the file itself?

I don't understand. The detailed files gives you:

creation date & time
last modified date & time
last accessed date & time
last back up date & time

You start writing email and send it today. It's date (forgetting time)
is the same as the creation and modification date.

You start writing a contract today and finish it tomorrow. It's date
is the same as it's last modified date.

You can read any of those files multiple times at any later date and
it doesn't change their creation or last modified dates.

In you go back into the contract and modify it at a later day, then
the amended contract should be re-dated and it should match the last
modified date.

To create a document today, and in it's content date it last week (or
next week) and then use a program to change it's electronic creation
date to match; or to go into a completed contract a some much later
date, and modify it and then use a program to electronically back date
it's modification date all seems fraudulent to me.

If there is some other date that is extremely important to the file
then surely this would be dealt with using a sensible storing and
naming convention. i.e. if you were writing someone's biography you
might  have folders for each year and name the files with a prefix
mmdd month and day format to sort them chronologically. For contracts,
after a contract is signed it's scanned so this scanned document could
be named 'ACME contract signed yyyymmdd'

All relevant dates are then easily accessible via the files creation
date, modification date and full path name.



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Mar 24 23:13:11 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:13:11 +0800
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kgLAweFWA30nQp6ByCpZkoNFuWyjHwG7cbFjvW7ua14iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 4:41 AM, William Prothero
<prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>If you have two stacks open, then try to create a new card in the stack in the front, it creates doesn?t create a card in the selected stack. It appears at the top of the Project Browser, on a line by itself or in the other stack.
>
Not seeing that on OS x 10.9.5 LC8dp16

I just started LC 8
New stack - named it Test Stack 1
New stack - named it Test Stack 2
Opened the Object Browser
Named Card 1 of Test Stack 1 'ts1cd1'
Named Card 2 of Test Stack 2 'ts2cd1'
Opened the Project Browser
Clicked on the Project Browser and each stack so that it would show
the tree view with each card.
With Test Stack 2 front most I created a New Card. It popped up in the
Project Browser in the correct place. I named it 'ts2cd2'
Bought Test Stack 1 to the front then New Card. It also popped up in
the Project Browser in the correct place.

HTH



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Mar 25 00:56:19 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 21:56:19 -0700
Subject: Shorter Vibration?
Message-ID: <D31A1303.7DD89%scott@tactilemedia.com>

I don't suppose it's possible to change the duration of mobileVibrate?

When using this command (on my Android phone) the interval seems to be
somewhere between 3/4 and a full second which is way too long for UI
feedback.  I'd like to trigger an extremely short vibration as feedback
when a button is pressed, similar to how many onscreen keyboards operate.

Any way to accomplish this?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design





From waprothero at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 01:08:12 2016
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 22:08:12 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kgLAweFWA30nQp6ByCpZkoNFuWyjHwG7cbFjvW7ua14iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
	<CA+uh5kgLAweFWA30nQp6ByCpZkoNFuWyjHwG7cbFjvW7ua14iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F938214E-7D3B-4ECB-BD07-6D00B0CD335B@gmail.com>

Kay,
Tnx for trying this out. My stacks were more complex and I was trying to convert a stack that used mobGUI elements and I couldn?t get rid of them. Then I was trying to copy code from one stack to another and the IDE appeared to get confused.

I?ll fiddle with it more and see if I can come up with a prescription,

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:13 PM, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 4:41 AM, William Prothero
> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> If you have two stacks open, then try to create a new card in the stack in the front, it creates doesn?t create a card in the selected stack. It appears at the top of the Project Browser, on a line by itself or in the other stack.
>> 
> Not seeing that on OS x 10.9.5 LC8dp16
> 
> I just started LC 8
> New stack - named it Test Stack 1
> New stack - named it Test Stack 2
> Opened the Object Browser
> Named Card 1 of Test Stack 1 'ts1cd1'
> Named Card 2 of Test Stack 2 'ts2cd1'
> Opened the Project Browser
> Clicked on the Project Browser and each stack so that it would show
> the tree view with each card.
> With Test Stack 2 front most I created a New Card. It popped up in the
> Project Browser in the correct place. I named it 'ts2cd2'
> Bought Test Stack 1 to the front then New Card. It also popped up in
> the Project Browser in the correct place.
> 
> HTH
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthednet.org  Fri Mar 25 01:09:04 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 22:09:04 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kgLAweFWA30nQp6ByCpZkoNFuWyjHwG7cbFjvW7ua14iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
	<CA+uh5kgLAweFWA30nQp6ByCpZkoNFuWyjHwG7cbFjvW7ua14iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F799D222-4918-45FB-9009-C0719529E048@earthednet.org>

Kay,
Tnx for trying this out. My stacks were more complex and I was trying to convert a stack that used mobGUI elements and I couldn?t get rid of them. Then I was trying to copy code from one stack to another and the IDE appeared to get confused.

I?ll fiddle with it more and see if I can come up with a prescription,

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:13 PM, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 4:41 AM, William Prothero
> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>> If you have two stacks open, then try to create a new card in the stack in the front, it creates doesn?t create a card in the selected stack. It appears at the top of the Project Browser, on a line by itself or in the other stack.
>> 
> Not seeing that on OS x 10.9.5 LC8dp16
> 
> I just started LC 8
> New stack - named it Test Stack 1
> New stack - named it Test Stack 2
> Opened the Object Browser
> Named Card 1 of Test Stack 1 'ts1cd1'
> Named Card 2 of Test Stack 2 'ts2cd1'
> Opened the Project Browser
> Clicked on the Project Browser and each stack so that it would show
> the tree view with each card.
> With Test Stack 2 front most I created a New Card. It popped up in the
> Project Browser in the correct place. I named it 'ts2cd2'
> Bought Test Stack 1 to the front then New Card. It also popped up in
> the Project Browser in the correct place.
> 
> HTH
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From peterwawood at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 03:33:15 2016
From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:33:15 +0800
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
Message-ID: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>

I have an array which contains a second array. (myArray[?numbers?][]). The numbers array is a traditional array with elements 1..n. I want to remove the first element of the numbers array and shuffle all the others up. Is there a simple way of doing this in LiveCode (equivalent to the shift() function in JavaScript)?

I looked in the dictionary and found delete <variable> but couldn't get it to work, perhaps because I am trying to do this in a function that takes the array as an argument.

The essence of the function is:

function shift @pList
  local tItem
  put pList[?numbers?][1] into tItem
  delete pList[?numbers?] 1					## Is this the correct syntax?
  return tItem
end shift

If I can get delete to remove the first element of the array, will it automatically change the index of the remaining entries?

Thanks in advance.

Peter

From peter.brett at livecode.com  Fri Mar 25 04:03:31 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 08:03:31 +0000
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-25 08:33, Peter W A Wood wrote:
> I have an array which contains a second array. (myArray[?numbers?][]).
> The numbers array is a traditional array with elements 1..n. I want to
> remove the first element of the numbers array and shuffle all the
> others up. Is there a simple way of doing this in LiveCode (equivalent
> to the shift() function in JavaScript)?
>
> I looked in the dictionary and found delete <variable> but couldn't
> get it to work, perhaps because I am trying to do this in a function
> that takes the array as an argument.
>
> The essence of the function is:
>
> function shift @pList
>   local tItem
>   put pList[?numbers?][1] into tItem
>   delete pList[?numbers?] 1					## Is this the correct syntax?
>   return tItem
> end shift
>
> If I can get delete to remove the first element of the array, will it
> automatically change the index of the remaining entries?

Hi Peter,

LiveCode arrays are actually dictionaries (more like JavaScript objects 
than JavaScript arrays).  There aren't currently any push/pop syntax for 
LiveCode arrays.

I would recommend two things:

1) Arrange your algorithm so that you extract things one-by-one from the 
_end_ of the numbered array, rather than the start.  This is more 
efficient!  Then you would do something like:

    function PopEnd @xArray
       local tLength, tItem

       put the number of elements in xArray into tLength
       if tLength is 0 then return empty

       put xArray[tLength] into tItem

       delete xArray[tLength]

       return tItem
    end PopEnd

2) Alternatively, you can shift everything along, which will be slow:

    function PopStart @xArray
       local tLength, tItem, tKey

       put the number of elements in xArray into tLength
       if tLength is 0 then return empty

       put xArray[1] into tItem

       repeat with tKey = 2 to tLength
          put xArray[tKey] into xArray[tKey - 1]
       end repeat
       delete xArray[tLength]

       return tItem
    end PopStart

3) Another option, if you don't care about what order you get your 
values in, is to remove an item from anywhere, cheaply, by moving the 
last item in the list on top of the one you've removed:

    function RemoveAt @xArray, pIndex
       local tLength, tItem

       if pIndex is not among the keys of xArray then return empty
       put the number of elements in xArray into tLength

       put xArray[pIndex] into tItem
       put xArray[tLength] into xArray[pIndex]
       delete xArray[tLength]

       return tItem
    end RemoveAt


I hope that's helpful.

Would anyone be interested in a Feature Exchange for adding some new 
array operators (such as push and pop) to the language?

                                          Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From peterwawood at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 04:19:59 2016
From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:19:59 +0800
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <5D8324D7-6A2A-49D8-8A39-1EB60EC9B2FD@gmail.com>

Peter

Thanks for the suggestions.

> On 25 Mar 2016, at 16:03, Peter TB Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2016-03-25 08:33, Peter W A Wood wrote:
>> I have an array which contains a second array. (myArray[?numbers?][]).
>> ...
>> automatically change the index of the remaining entries?
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> LiveCode arrays are actually dictionaries (more like JavaScript objects than JavaScript arrays).  There aren't currently any push/pop syntax for LiveCode arrays.

Thanks for the confirmation as I wasn?t sure that was the case for all arrays due to the existence of the extents function.

> I would recommend two things:
> 
> 1) Arrange your algorithm so that you extract things one-by-one from the _end_ of the numbered array, rather than the start.  This is more efficient!  

It is not possible in this case as the order of the elements is significant. I use a different function to remove the last element of the array.

> 
> 2) Alternatively, you can shift everything along, which will be slow:
> 
>   function PopStart @xArray
>      local tLength, tItem, tKey
> 
>      put the number of elements in xArray into tLength
>      if tLength is 0 then return empty
> 
>      put xArray[1] into tItem
> 
>      repeat with tKey = 2 to tLength
>         put xArray[tKey] into xArray[tKey - 1]
>      end repeat
>      delete xArray[tLength]
> 
>      return tItem
>   end PopStart

This is what I am currently having to do but am not too worried yet as I believe in the ?Getting it working, getting it working correctly, getting working quickly approach?.

> I hope that's helpful.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Kind regards

Peter





From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 05:22:32 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 17:22:32 +0800
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5khprZgXG00W4NyV59U1DqQtJtJ0isc7HaTzjOh2QnMKVw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Peter W A Wood <peterwawood at gmail.com> wrote:

>   delete pList[?numbers?] 1                                     ## Is this the correct syntax?

No. Shouldn't it be:

delete variable pList["number"][1]

At least that works for me, although in your case I think, if I
understand it correctly, I'd tackle the problem by: (suedo-code)

repeat with x = 2 to the number of keys in firstArray
  put firstArray[x] into secondArray[x - 1]
end repeat
put secondArray into firstArray



From roland.huettmann at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 05:36:50 2016
From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:36:50 +0100
Subject: Looking for parser for Email (MIME)
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kgAPDRH9X0DdLWWuujk3HbkwxkMW6APH1CHKgsfdyeorA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56F06CE2.4040500@cogapp.com> <56F07DAC.5090309@fourthworld.com>
	<56F15E94.1010606@cogapp.com>
	<CAH-=WV-_pmLwzPkrrvvETj8Y+h6cWV-evvtQpGbYhiA3oWqTYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+uh5kjAsVkB5FE94da5gBxSKiYkatF=Miv7z-jCp4yuO111Xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAH-=WV8y+nA1Pqg0+RjRZGChi2RnpABPH1ZPUyRbMhuOxq2BUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+uh5kgAPDRH9X0DdLWWuujk3HbkwxkMW6APH1CHKgsfdyeorA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH-=WV_NA+-r-o41e75A0sg0Yw=4i6h-NpQ8nzeCvayqDJPXDw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Kay

Thank you for your reply. It can be argued. )))

Well, actually i am using a naming convention using YYYMMDD_HHMM for
myself, but it can not be enforced in a business environment easily and has
other disadvantages.

The problem with modification date/time is that it will be updated when
there is any change, and especially also when in certain other operations
on the file. This modification date/time can be set of course, but then it
would have to be reset too often. And during copy-paste such dates/times
change.

Changing the creation date is "fraudulent"? It depends on how you see it.
These are documents where the user is the owner. The system is not the
"owner" in my humble opinion. Why should someone else (system...?) tell me
what to set as the file creation date which is irrelevant in such case? It
is a matter of semantics. Since there is no "user creation date/time" there
is only this file creation date/time - and in this sense by purpose it is
"misused" for another purpose.

I am also not interested in the date when a sheet of paper was produced. I
am interested in the date which is in the contract signed using such paper.
And even if a copy is made, I am still interested in the original content
date and not the date of the copy of the paper.

The result in my clients small environment: No problems with having to
stick to naming conventions, files are well ordered the way they should be,
people find what they need. In three years we had never a bad result. It is
well respected and accepted.

But I understand of course that it can be argued... ))). And it will not
become a standard. I am aware of this ). So, I agree, it should not be a
recommendation.

Roland





On 25 March 2016 at 01:53, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Roland Huettmann
> > I find it VERY convenient since the actual file creation
> > date is not of importance. The content of the file is important. For
> > example, a Word document has a date of the Content (a letter for example,
> > or a contract). Why should this not be reflected in a *persistent* date
> of
> > the file itself?
>
> I don't understand. The detailed files gives you:
>
> creation date & time
> last modified date & time
> last accessed date & time
> last back up date & time
>
> You start writing email and send it today. It's date (forgetting time)
> is the same as the creation and modification date.
>
> You start writing a contract today and finish it tomorrow. It's date
> is the same as it's last modified date.
>
> You can read any of those files multiple times at any later date and
> it doesn't change their creation or last modified dates.
>
> In you go back into the contract and modify it at a later day, then
> the amended contract should be re-dated and it should match the last
> modified date.
>
> To create a document today, and in it's content date it last week (or
> next week) and then use a program to change it's electronic creation
> date to match; or to go into a completed contract a some much later
> date, and modify it and then use a program to electronically back date
> it's modification date all seems fraudulent to me.
>
> If there is some other date that is extremely important to the file
> then surely this would be dealt with using a sensible storing and
> naming convention. i.e. if you were writing someone's biography you
> might  have folders for each year and name the files with a prefix
> mmdd month and day format to sort them chronologically. For contracts,
> after a contract is signed it's scanned so this scanned document could
> be named 'ACME contract signed yyyymmdd'
>
> All relevant dates are then easily accessible via the files creation
> date, modification date and full path name.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From peterwawood at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 06:25:41 2016
From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 18:25:41 +0800
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5khprZgXG00W4NyV59U1DqQtJtJ0isc7HaTzjOh2QnMKVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<CA+uh5khprZgXG00W4NyV59U1DqQtJtJ0isc7HaTzjOh2QnMKVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EB6A6FB3-CFA6-4E93-8AB6-A51F94948FB9@gmail.com>

Thanks Kay

> On 25 Mar 2016, at 17:22, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Peter W A Wood <peterwawood at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>  delete pList[?numbers?] 1                                     ## Is this the correct syntax?
> 
> No. Shouldn't it be:
> 
> delete variable pList["number"][1]
> 
> At least that works for me, although in your case I think, if I
> understand it correctly, I'd tackle the problem by: (suedo-code)
> 
> repeat with x = 2 to the number of keys in firstArray
>  put firstArray[x] into secondArray[x - 1]
> end repeat
> put secondArray into firstArray


I do something like this at the moment. I was trying to see if there was an easier/quicker way.

Kind regards

Peter


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Mar 25 08:13:49 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 08:13:49 -0400
Subject: Feature Exchange for Array extensions (Was Re: Delete the first entry
	of an array.)
In-Reply-To: <56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F52B7D.4020807@researchware.com>

On 3/25/2016 4:03 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Would anyone be interested in a Feature Exchange for adding some new
> array operators (such as push and pop) to the language?
>
>                                          Peter

I'm not very interested in a push and pop functions, but what I have
been wanting for quite some time is really good row and column
operations on 2 dimensional numerically index arrays.
LC Bugzilla entries 670, 4623, 7243, and 9950 are a few enhancements
requests related to this need

I really want to have chunk expressions for a 2D array, such as "put row
3 of somearray into tVar" OR, the really handy one, "put column 5 of
myArray into AColumn" and even things like "get word 2 of first row of
last column of anotherarray"
Similar with "delete row 7" or "put empty into column 6" or " put 0 into
column 6" (replace all cells in column 6 with zero). Also an associated
modifications to "split" and "combine" to turn delimited (typically tab
and cr) data into a 2D numerically indexed array and 2D numerically
index arrays into delimited data

Obviously, these functions can be coded (and have been) as LC script
handlers, but I find myself working with table data frequently enough
that I really would like them to be part of the engine.




From bonnmike at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 08:51:40 2016
From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:51:40 -0600
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <EB6A6FB3-CFA6-4E93-8AB6-A51F94948FB9@gmail.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<CA+uh5khprZgXG00W4NyV59U1DqQtJtJ0isc7HaTzjOh2QnMKVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EB6A6FB3-CFA6-4E93-8AB6-A51F94948FB9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1cpSrGeT_4iXM5=VzznEttPPygJxczPDbzVgezp+CxX5giDg@mail.gmail.com>

Leave things as they are, delete the first element, and keep track of an
offset value that you use to grab array elements.  If your array starts at
1, and you haven't deleted any elements from the front, the offset is 0.
If you delete 2 items, from the front, the offset is 2.  If you want to
access the 4th element, it would be arrayval[itemnum+offset]  You could
generate the offset by grabbing the keylist, sorting it, and grabbing the
first key - 1 (or use min() -1) but it would probably be far more efficient
to just keep track as you go.  You could keep the offset value in the array
too.

Of course, this doesn't help if you are removing elements from the middle
of the numerically indexed array too.  (in which case it would just make
sense to keep a sorted list of keys and preform duplicate operations on the
list. Then you can use line 3 of the keylist  as your array key for the
proper item.

Having said all that, I'm all for a feature exchange to make this sort of
thing easier.  Yes please! (I don't have much discretionary spending moola,
but this one would garner some of it)

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 4:25 AM, Peter W A Wood <peterwawood at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Kay
>
> > On 25 Mar 2016, at 17:22, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Peter W A Wood <peterwawood at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>  delete pList[?numbers?] 1                                     ## Is
> this the correct syntax?
> >
> > No. Shouldn't it be:
> >
> > delete variable pList["number"][1]
> >
> > At least that works for me, although in your case I think, if I
> > understand it correctly, I'd tackle the problem by: (suedo-code)
> >
> > repeat with x = 2 to the number of keys in firstArray
> >  put firstArray[x] into secondArray[x - 1]
> > end repeat
> > put secondArray into firstArray
>
>
> I do something like this at the moment. I was trying to see if there was
> an easier/quicker way.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From paul at researchware.com  Fri Mar 25 10:41:25 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:41:25 -0400
Subject: How you force inclusion of 'rev' functions in a standalone?
Message-ID: <56F54E15.60301@researchware.com>

I have a standalone that does not include functions like revCopeFolder,
revCopyFile, revDeleteFolder, etc,

The standalone does however, open an external stack that expects to use
these functions, but what happens is I get an execution error handler
not found (i.e Handler: can't find handler: revDeleteFolder (Line 339,
column 1))

So how do I force LiveCode to include these in the Standalone?

Do I just need a handler in the stack script (or somewhere) that is
never actually called, but included the functions I need, so the
standalone builder detects their presence when compiling scripts and
includes them? So other approach?

Under "Set Inclusions for Standalone Builder" setting, where you can
explicitly include the revZip library and so on, there doesn't seem to
be an inclusion for the rev file/folder extensions? Is this a bug?

Can someone from LiveCode advise on the definitive best way to do this?



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Mar 25 13:40:03 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:40:03 -0500
Subject: How you force inclusion of 'rev' functions in a standalone?
In-Reply-To: <56F54E15.60301@researchware.com>
References: <56F54E15.60301@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <56F577F3.9090102@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/25/2016 9:41 AM, Paul Dupuis wrote:
> I have a standalone that does not include functions like revCopeFolder,
> revCopyFile, revDeleteFolder, etc,
>
> The standalone does however, open an external stack that expects to use
> these functions, but what happens is I get an execution error handler
> not found (i.e Handler: can't find handler: revDeleteFolder (Line 339,
> column 1))
>
> So how do I force LiveCode to include these in the Standalone?

The library is included by default in all standalones, which is why 
there is no selector for it. If it isn't working, the most likely reason 
is that it hasn't loaded yet when its functions were called. Are you 
trying to use the library some time during the startup sequence?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Mar 25 13:42:17 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:42:17 -0500
Subject: Shorter Vibration?
In-Reply-To: <D31A1303.7DD89%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D31A1303.7DD89%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <56F57879.30407@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/24/2016 11:56 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> I don't suppose it's possible to change the duration of mobileVibrate?

I don't think so.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Fri Mar 25 13:49:08 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 13:49:08 -0400
Subject: How you force inclusion of 'rev' functions in a standalone?
In-Reply-To: <56F577F3.9090102@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <56F54E15.60301@researchware.com>
	<56F577F3.9090102@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56F57A14.1050206@researchware.com>

On 3/25/2016 1:40 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> The library is included by default in all standalones, which is why
> there is no selector for it. If it isn't working, the most likely
> reason is that it hasn't loaded yet when its functions were called.
> Are you trying to use the library some time during the startup sequence?
No, it is well after the standalone has started up. The user then
selects a menu item that opens an external stack (in a subfolder of the
folder containing the standalone) that has code that uses the
revFile/Folder functions.

As a test, I added a dummy handler in the stack script of the mainstack
of the standalone that simple included revCopyFile tFile,tFolder and so
on and rebuilt the standalone and now it is working. This is under
LiveCode 676, so perhaps it is a bug specific to that version of LC or
just a strange glitch in the previous build of the Standalone.

Thank you for responding.



From hh at livecode.org  Fri Mar 25 13:23:42 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:23:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Shorter Vibration?
In-Reply-To: <56F57879.30407@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <D31A1303.7DD89%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<56F57879.30407@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1458926622807-4702614.post@n4.nabble.com>

Good vibrations (4:56)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2gZMNkyJo



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Shorter-Vibration-tp4702599p4702614.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Mar 25 14:08:12 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:08:12 -0700
Subject: OT: Re: Shorter Vibration?
In-Reply-To: <1458926622807-4702614.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <D31A1303.7DD89%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<56F57879.30407@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1458926622807-4702614.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56F57E8C.80808@ahsoftware.net>

Or better yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rd53WuojE

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri Mar 25 14:24:37 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:24:37 -0400
Subject: Shorter Vibration?
In-Reply-To: <56F57E8C.80808@ahsoftware.net>
References: <D31A1303.7DD89%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<56F57879.30407@hyperactivesw.com>	<1458926622807-4702614.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56F57E8C.80808@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <003301d186c3$9724a180$c56de480$@net>

Nothing like having footage of the take that was on the record. Mark, you
like the doubling of the acoustic and electric bass? Brien Wilson the king
of using the 3rd and 5th for the bass at times instead of the root.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Wieder
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:08 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: OT: Re: Shorter Vibration?

Or better yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rd53WuojE

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Mar 25 14:59:35 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:59:35 -0700
Subject: Shorter Vibration?
In-Reply-To: <003301d186c3$9724a180$c56de480$@net>
References: <D31A1303.7DD89%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<56F57879.30407@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1458926622807-4702614.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56F57E8C.80808@ahsoftware.net> <003301d186c3$9724a180$c56de480$@net>
Message-ID: <56F58A97.8090807@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/25/2016 11:24 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote:
> Nothing like having footage of the take that was on the record. Mark, you
> like the doubling of the acoustic and electric bass? Brien Wilson the king
> of using the 3rd and 5th for the bass at times instead of the root.

Yeah, I believe that's Lyle Ritz on the acoustic. Brian Wilson was 
always very creative with bass lines. Carol Kaye had some stuff to say 
about that in the Wrecking Crew movie. And there's the walking jazz bass 
line in God Only Knows, the iconic loping cowboy line in California Girls...

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 15:14:05 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:14:05 +0200
Subject: [OT] Useful resource
Message-ID: <56F58DFD.5090202@gmail.com>

https://thenounproject.com/

Richmond.



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Mar 25 19:00:33 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 23:00:33 +0000
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>



On 25/03/2016 08:03, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> LiveCode arrays are actually dictionaries (more like JavaScript 
> objects than JavaScript arrays).  There aren't currently any push/pop 
> syntax for LiveCode arrays.
>
> ...
> I hope that's helpful.
>
> Would anyone be interested in a Feature Exchange for adding some new 
> array operators (such as push and pop) to the language?
>
>                                          Peter
>
How about a Feature Exchange for adding arrays ?   (i.e. not 
dictionaries, but actual arrays with numeric indices and linear access 
times)

-- Alex.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Mar 25 20:00:05 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 17:00:05 -0700
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
References: <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <56F5D105.2030901@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:
 > How about a Feature Exchange for adding arrays ?   (i.e. not
 > dictionaries, but actual arrays with numeric indices and linear
 > access times)

lulz.  Cute, but of course associative arrays are indeed a type of array.

But yes, it would be nice to also support indexed arrays.

I have a vague recollection of Mark Waddingham noting somewhere back in 
the Engine Contributors section of the forums or a bug report that 
wouldn't be hard to do.  May be my aging memory, though....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From paul at livecode.org  Fri Mar 25 20:11:15 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (paul at livecode.org)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 17:11:15 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <7668D184-F536-4C30-9BBE-B7BFA145D95E@livecode.org>

Bill,

I tried this and saw the problem once!, but now I?m not seeing it happen again. That?s kind of a familiar scenario with LC8 for me, often makes me think I?m doing something wrong, but then I can?t find enough evidence to make a recipe for a bug report.

When I get a few minutes spare I?ll try again with some different stacks, I do see odd results with the PB from time to time and the only way to get rid of them is to close and re-open the PB palette, that?s why I suggested a refresh button, but Mark Waddingham doesn?t want to go down that route. I do understand, but it is still frustrating at times.

Paul


> On Mar 24, 2016, at 1:41 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> I?m noticing a problem with the Project Browser in DP16. If you have two stacks open, then try to create a new card in the stack in the front, it creates doesn?t create a card in the selected stack. It appears at the top of the Project Browser, on a line by itself or in the other stack.
> 
> Closing the other stack (the one that you are not putting the new card on), doesn?t help. The card listing goes to the top of the project browser window.
> 
> Anybody else see this oddity? I?m trying hard to convert over to LC8, but some of these oddities are a bit troublesome. 
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From brahma at hindu.org  Fri Mar 25 21:27:52 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 01:27:52 +0000
Subject: LC 8 dp 16 does recognize Xcode Version 7.3 (7D175)?
Message-ID: <etPan.56f5e596.338d7c0c.637@Brahmanathaswami.local>

As we know Apple loves to update XCode automatically. I don't see an option to turn this off in xCode prefs on my mac.

So... woke up today with xCode modification date yesterday and now LC 8 dp 16 Mobile prefs won't accept it. Red square asking for valid SDK from 6.1 up to 9.2.

There is the option to install the iOS 9.2 Simulator... but I don't think that is the same as the SDK... trying to download now...

Any advice? working on a prototype and need to test on iPhone and iPad

<color>
big storm here last night, despite all kinds of surge protection seem the lightening force fields fried some routers and fiber...one thunder clap at around 11 PM shook my whole hut! (10 X 10 concrete box out in the jungle) I'm on a 100MB connection now and this is going to take a while
</color>

BR

From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Mar 25 21:27:38 2016
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 01:27:38 +0000
Subject: problem with large numbers in LC 8 arrays when exporting to json
Message-ID: <D31C30B2.1F510%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

OK, so I?m putting some times (as seconds() values) into an array and then exporting the array to json using the jsonExport() function in LC8.

When I query the various elements of the array containing these times individually they all report as expected (e.g. 1458954886). However, when I inspect the array in the debugger and when I export the array to a son string all the seconds values (and presumably any other large numbers) are displayed in the form 1.45895e+09. This is obviously fairly useless if I need to convert the values in the json back into times at a later stage.

Is this expected behavior in LC 8 or is it a bug? I can work around it by making the values into strings before putting them into the array but I shouldn?t have to ? should I?

Terry?


From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Mar 25 21:37:44 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 01:37:44 +0000
Subject: OT: Was Re: LC 8 dp 16 does recognize Xcode Version 7.3 (7D175)?
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f5e596.338d7c0c.637@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f5e596.338d7c0c.637@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56F5E7E8.5010306@tweedly.net>



On 26/03/2016 01:27, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> <color>
> big storm here last night, despite all kinds of surge protection seem the lightening force fields fried some routers and fiber...one thunder clap at around 11 PM shook my whole hut! (10 X 10 concrete box out in the jungle) I'm on a 100MB connection now and this is going to take a while
> </color>
>
We had a medium-sized lightning storm 7-1/2 weeks ago - fried the phone 
cables behind the house, brought down the power lines onto the garden 
shed, etc.

They got the power up the same day, the second phone line after 3 weeks 
- and my main phone (and internet) connection is still down :-)
I am so glad I had a second phone line put in, back in the days of 56k 
modems.

So my "4Mb on a good day" connection makes me look at your 100Mb 
connection with envy :-)

-- Alex.



From hlowe at me.com  Sat Mar 26 01:21:52 2016
From: hlowe at me.com (hlowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 22:21:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: LC 8 dp 16 does recognize Xcode Version 7.3 (7D175)?
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f5e596.338d7c0c.637@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f5e596.338d7c0c.637@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <1458969712906-4702625.post@n4.nabble.com>

If you have a backup (e.g. Time machine) just rename the xCode app that is in
your applications folder as "xCode 7.3" then restore the older version of
xCode from your backup into the applications folder. LC should find it at
startup (if not go to LC preferences > Mobile Support and select xCode using
"Add Entry") and you should be back to where you were before the automatic
xCode update.

To prevent automatic updates in the future open System Preferences on your
Mac and go to the "App Store" panel. Turn off "Install app updates"

Henry



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-8-dp-16-does-recognize-Xcode-Version-7-3-7D175-tp4702622p4702625.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From peterwawood at gmail.com  Sat Mar 26 02:21:48 2016
From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:21:48 +0800
Subject: [ANN} LiveCode List Processor - Version 1
Message-ID: <53E681FB-C65C-4C56-81C1-7D633AA40FC3@gmail.com>

I have found time to complete version 1 of my LiveCode List Processor. You can find it at https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-ListProcessor

Many of you may be wondering why I bothered to write it when LiveCode?s built-in list processing (of delimited strings) is very good. The main reason is that LiveCode?s lists lack a memory. You can?t process a couple of items at the top of a list, go and do some thing else and then start processing the third item in the list. Well not easily. The List Processor does have a memory and you can move forwards and backwards along a list. The current position is even remembered when the list is saved.

A simple example of its use would be if you wanted to use some colours in turn. First you would make a list:

	put LP.makeList(?red:green:blue:pink:purple:brown:black:?, ?:?) into myColours

When you wanted to get the next colour, you would simply get the next item in the list:

	put LP.next(myColours) into nextColour 	#nextColour would be set to ?green"

You can get the next colour
	
	put LP.next(myColours) into nextColour 	#nextColour would be set to ?blue"
	
You can save the list
	
	put LP.save(myColours, myURL) into tTemp 
									# tTemp would be a binary copy of the list

You can load the list from the URL and get the next colour

	put LP.load(myURL) into myColours
	put LP.next(myColours) into nextColour 	#nextColour would be set to ?pink?

I suspect the number of uses of these lists with a memory is quite wide. I plan to use it to store data that I previously held in a set of cards. You can navigate through the list in a similar way to how you would navigate through cards. One small difference is that the lists don?t automatically cycle around from the last to first items as LiveCode cards do. (It would be easy to add that to the List Processor though).

When I was developing the List Processor, I wrote the tests using LiveCode MiniTest -https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-MiniTest

The is some simple documentation on the Github page.

When writing the List Processor, I concentrated on getting it working correctly rather than speed. I?m sure that big improvements could be made and I would welcome comments and suggestions.

Regards

Peter




From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 26 02:57:17 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 06:57:17 +0000
Subject: Best Practices for Script Based Frameworks
Message-ID: <etPan.56f632cc.554685cb.398@Brahmanathaswami.local>

We are launching into the creation of a new app. I hope to use script stacks as much as possible and also we will have a lot of API's on our web server running under LiveCode server + RevIgniter in some cases, since Ralf's Libraries are fantastic and we don't have to reinvent the wheel for many functions.

My question is this: In the matter of scripts, libraries, includes etc. Do you as a developer prefer to keep discrete functions in separate files? Or do you use larger scripts with many functions/commands?

Here is a use case to consider:

One of the screens in the app will deliver "Surprise Inspiration" (random selections)

The user will be able to click on "Audio" or "Video" or "Art" or "slideshow" or "Quotes" and a few other text media genres

The app will ping the server with a media type and the api(s) on the server look into our media metadata database and select a random audio, build an absolute URL to the file on disk and send this back to app, which then

Run it in a player
Show it in a browser widget
set an image filename
Load a textReader card/field

Now, each unit in this scenario is relatively simple and we've been doing this "random whatever"  media delivery thing for years already.

But I want to start fresh. On the server we have some gigantic controllers (2000 lines) e.g. site.lc and cms.lc, with dozens and dozens of commands and functions.  And we also have /libraries with things like "utils" and "audio"  libraries with multiple functions. But they are much more discrete, limited.

So: would you create a single script and pass the media type to that script to look up? or multiple scripts. The random function is common to all the media types... so then this would seem to call for a single script, since whether we ask for an audio file, a book, or a video or a slideshow.. the random function that check the database will be the same for all....

OR

do you create small mini "get random media" script  and a separate script for each media type that includes that file? this seems better for re-usability. since someone else on the team can include "getRandomMedia.lc"  and it is obvious where it is and what it does. The downside of this is, proliferation of lots of little files!

  The Livecode IDE seems to have lots and lots of small script stacks. In the world of PHP web CMSs  we see a lot of waffling one way and the other... many of them use 3rd party modules and even across those, there are (obviously) different styles.

What do you do, how do you like to work and why is one way better than another?

What criteria do you use for

a) adding more functions to a single script/stack
b) making it an independent "mini" library/include

?

BR



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sat Mar 26 03:35:47 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 07:35:47 +0000
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com>

On 25/03/2016 23:00, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> How about a Feature Exchange for adding arrays ?   (i.e. not
> dictionaries, but actual arrays with numeric indices and linear access
> times)

In LiveCode, we currently call these "proper lists".

LiveCode arrays currently have O(log N) read and insertion complexity in 
the general case (which is better than linear).

If we were to add proper lists, we would probably use an implementation 
with O(1) read and O(N) insertion complexity in the general case.

If you need proper lists, LiveCode Builder already provides them with 
the "List" type.

                                        Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From merakosp at gmail.com  Sat Mar 26 09:19:54 2016
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 13:19:54 +0000
Subject: LC 8 dp 16 does recognize Xcode Version 7.3 (7D175)?
In-Reply-To: <1458969712906-4702625.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f5e596.338d7c0c.637@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1458969712906-4702625.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8hxEzn3so6KDrDjYu4owEYFfkxmJtrxrW6RggwikPn5g@mail.gmail.com>

You can have more than one version of Xcode installed in your machine. You
can find any version of Xcode on the Apple's downloads page.

Or use this link from Stack Overflow to get directly the .dmg from Apple
(requires Apple ID to login):

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10335747/how-to-download-xcode-4-5-6-7-and-get-the-dmg-file

Best,
Panos
--

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 5:21 AM, hlowe <hlowe at me.com> wrote:

> If you have a backup (e.g. Time machine) just rename the xCode app that is
> in
> your applications folder as "xCode 7.3" then restore the older version of
> xCode from your backup into the applications folder. LC should find it at
> startup (if not go to LC preferences > Mobile Support and select xCode
> using
> "Add Entry") and you should be back to where you were before the automatic
> xCode update.
>
> To prevent automatic updates in the future open System Preferences on your
> Mac and go to the "App Store" panel. Turn off "Install app updates"
>
> Henry
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-8-dp-16-does-recognize-Xcode-Version-7-3-7D175-tp4702622p4702625.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar 26 10:18:45 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 07:18:45 -0700
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com>
References: <56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F69A45.3030902@fourthworld.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote:
 > On 25/03/2016 23:00, Alex Tweedly wrote:
 >
 >> How about a Feature Exchange for adding arrays ?   (i.e. not
 >> dictionaries, but actual arrays with numeric indices and linear
 >> access times)
 >
 > In LiveCode, we currently call these "proper lists".
 >
 > LiveCode arrays currently have O(log N) read and insertion complexity
 > in the general case (which is better than linear).
 >
 > If we were to add proper lists, we would probably use an
 > implementation with O(1) read and O(N) insertion complexity in the
 > general case.
 >
 > If you need proper lists, LiveCode Builder already provides them with
 > the "List" type.

Is there an estimate for when indexed arrays ("proper lists") may become 
available in LiveCode Script?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Mar 26 11:13:44 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 08:13:44 -0700
Subject: [ANN} LiveCode List Processor - Version 1
In-Reply-To: <53E681FB-C65C-4C56-81C1-7D633AA40FC3@gmail.com>
References: <53E681FB-C65C-4C56-81C1-7D633AA40FC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F6A728.5040208@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/25/2016 11:21 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote:
> I have found time to complete version 1 of my LiveCode List Processor. You can find it at https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-ListProcessor

Nicely done.
The save and load functions aren't there, though.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From peterwawood at gmail.com  Sat Mar 26 11:48:09 2016
From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 23:48:09 +0800
Subject: [ANN} LiveCode List Processor - Version 1
In-Reply-To: <56F6A728.5040208@ahsoftware.net>
References: <53E681FB-C65C-4C56-81C1-7D633AA40FC3@gmail.com>
	<56F6A728.5040208@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <08C7C2B0-3F7A-45A0-A1C9-D0CF3147CBC5@gmail.com>

Mark 
> On 26 Mar 2016, at 23:13, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> On 03/25/2016 11:21 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote:
>> I have found time to complete version 1 of my LiveCode List Processor. You can find it at https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-ListProcessor
> 
> Nicely done.

Thanks.

> The save and load functions aren't there, though.

In the sense that they are totally missing or you feel they are insufficient? 

Regards

Peter


From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sat Mar 26 12:13:55 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 16:13:55 +0000
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F69A45.3030902@fourthworld.com>
References: <56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F69A45.3030902@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56F6B543.8020500@livecode.com>



On 26/03/2016 14:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Is there an estimate for when indexed arrays ("proper lists") may become
> available in LiveCode Script?

Not currently on the roadmap.

                                   Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Mar 26 13:01:53 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:01:53 -0700
Subject: [ANN} LiveCode List Processor - Version 1
In-Reply-To: <08C7C2B0-3F7A-45A0-A1C9-D0CF3147CBC5@gmail.com>
References: <53E681FB-C65C-4C56-81C1-7D633AA40FC3@gmail.com>
	<56F6A728.5040208@ahsoftware.net>
	<08C7C2B0-3F7A-45A0-A1C9-D0CF3147CBC5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F6C081.3090402@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/26/2016 08:48 AM, Peter W A Wood wrote:

>> The save and load functions aren't there, though.
>
> In the sense that they are totally missing or you feel they are insufficient?

In the sense that they weren't in the script.
But now I see you've pushed a new commit.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From engleerica at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 26 13:23:34 2016
From: engleerica at yahoo.com (Eric A. Engle)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:23:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Installing metacard on linux - cmd line or?
References: <1293818664.670863.1459013014894.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1293818664.670863.1459013014894.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I wish to install metacard as I find the current UI bloated - it often hangs even when given propercode, and really hate the fact that new stacks and old stacks are incompatible. I am using ubuntu. While I did find an engine and stacks, I do not know the sudo etc. to try to install from a package. I did look on the Internet the one thread I founded ended in a chortle about being outdated and wasn't helpful. I have already searched the user list with no joy. Are there repositories to add or such?

I also wish to use the engine for CGI. 

Any help is appreciated.

I would prefer not to discuss the merits or demerits of livecode. I simply wish to install metacard, somehow.

Thank you.



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Sat Mar 26 14:15:07 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:15:07 -0400
Subject: documentation submissions
Message-ID: <CADCoycOx+8P9jdKda7QTiqNM1WpTkNqTBch4wbVvhKsG0d86kA@mail.gmail.com>

Do we have a way to contribute to the docs, yet?  I didn't know if I should
just make a submission through the documentation stack in 6/7, or if we had
something new for 8.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar 26 14:42:44 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:42:44 -0700
Subject: documentation submissions
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOx+8P9jdKda7QTiqNM1WpTkNqTBch4wbVvhKsG0d86kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycOx+8P9jdKda7QTiqNM1WpTkNqTBch4wbVvhKsG0d86kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F6D824.4050205@fourthworld.com>

Mike Kerner wrote:
 > Do we have a way to contribute to the docs, yet?

Yep, outlined here:
https://livecode.com/putting-the-you-in-documentation/

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar 26 14:52:43 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:52:43 -0700
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F6B543.8020500@livecode.com>
References: <56F6B543.8020500@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F6DA7B.7060801@fourthworld.com>

Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 26/03/2016 14:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Is there an estimate for when indexed arrays ("proper lists") may become
>> available in LiveCode Script?
>
> Not currently on the roadmap.

Given how frequently it's been requested for many years I was surprised 
I couldn't find an enhancement request for it in the RQCC, so I added 
one this morning:

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17236

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 26 15:05:38 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 19:05:38 +0000
Subject: LC 8 dp 16 does recognize Xcode Version 7.3 (7D175)?
In-Reply-To: <1458969712906-4702625.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f5e596.338d7c0c.637@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1458969712906-4702625.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f6dd7f.6904ec5d.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

@ Panos  OK, downloading 7.2.1 now... I should pay more attention to the release notes, as they clearly state the xCode version that is supported.

@ Henry... Yep... I have Time machine back ups... more a problem of HD space... rather not keep multiple versions of xCode. App Store Prefs... sheesh.. I would not have thought to look there.

"Download Updates in the background" OK, thanks.. found it and turned it off..

Now i can delete 7.3 and just keep the latest version of xCode that works with LC (I don't need xCode for anything else)

Mahalo!

BR

On March 25, 2016 at 7:52:01 PM, hlowe (hlowe at me.com<mailto:hlowe at me.com>) wrote:

If you have a backup (e.g. Time machine) just rename the xCode app that is in
your applications folder as "xCode 7.3" then restore the older version of
xCode from your backup into the applications folder. LC should find it at
startup (if not go to LC preferences > Mobile Support and select xCode using
"Add Entry") and you should be back to where you were before the automatic
xCode update.

To prevent automatic updates in the future open System Preferences on your
Mac and go to the "App Store" panel. Turn off "Install app updates"

Henry



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-8-dp-16-does-recognize-Xcode-Version-7-3-7D175-tp4702622p4702625.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From brahma at hindu.org  Sat Mar 26 15:17:12 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 19:17:12 +0000
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <7668D184-F536-4C30-9BBE-B7BFA145D95E@livecode.org>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
	<7668D184-F536-4C30-9BBE-B7BFA145D95E@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f6e035.6175300b.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

I had an odd incident in a different context but similar "paradigm"  i.e. as if the IDE lost track or the focused object/stack.  I had a stack open, a button selected, and the inspector open, and the graphics effects selected in the inspector. I pressed delete to delete the button. Instead of deleting the button, one of the buttons of the stack inspector for graphics effects disappeared... after that "all hell broke loose" with respect to selecting any object and trying to open an inspector for it. IDE had gone to the looney farm. Totally unqualified of course... which is impossible to bug report.

I just quit, rebooted LC and started again.. never able to reproduce this. So, this is not the same as a card, but loss of "where am I exactly"  smells like similar rotten mango, if you get my meaning.

Which stack is on First?

BR


On March 25, 2016 at 2:11:33 PM, paul at livecode.org (paul at livecode.org<mailto:paul at livecode.org>) wrote:

Bill,

I tried this and saw the problem once!, but now I?m not seeing it happen again. That?s kind of a familiar scenario with LC8 for me, often makes me think I?m doing something wrong, but then I can?t find enough evidence to make a recipe for a bug report.

When I get a few minutes spare I?ll try again with some different stacks, I do see odd results with the PB from time to time and the only way to get rid of them is to close and re-open the PB palette, that?s why I suggested a refresh button, but Mark Waddingham doesn?t want to go down that route. I do understand, but it is still frustrating at times.

Paul

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar 26 15:37:34 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 12:37:34 -0700
Subject: Installing metacard on linux - cmd line or?
In-Reply-To: <1293818664.670863.1459013014894.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1293818664.670863.1459013014894.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56F6E4FE.2030507@fourthworld.com>

Eric A. Engle wrote:

 > I wish to install metacard as I find the current UI bloated - it
 > often hangs even when given propercode, and really hate the fact
 > that new stacks and old stacks are incompatible. I am using ubuntu.
 > While I did find an engine and stacks, I do not know the sudo etc.
 > to try to install from a package. I did look on the Internet the
 > one thread I founded ended in a chortle about being outdated and
 > wasn't helpful. I have already searched the user list with no joy.
 > Are there repositories to add or such?

The MetaCard IDE is no longer being maintained.  I've used it with the 
LC engine as recently as v6.0rc2, but not since.

You can try your luck with this convenient installer Jacque put together 
for setting up MC:
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/590/MetaCard-Setup-2-02

If you're looking for older versions of the MetaCard engine, Mark 
Talluto used to maintain an archive at his company's site, but I can't 
find the URL for that now.  Perhaps he can chime in with that, but given 
how much OSes have changed since the MC engine was last updated I'd be 
surprised if it ran on any current version of Linux, Mac, or Windows.

 > I also wish to use the engine for CGI.

See above about availability and compatibility of the MC engine.

With the advent of LiveCode Server some years ago, and changes to the 
engine architecture to facilitate licensing changes around v2.7 or so, 
the Runtime engine no longer operates as a CGI engine by itself.

That said, any version of LiveCode can be used to build a standalone 
that can be run with -ui as a CGI.  In fact, all of the CGIs I use in 
propuction are standalones.  I use LC Server only to help others, but 
prefer the complete functional parity with running scripts in the IDE 
and on the server that I get by using standalones.

If you've done this before you know there are many conveniences included 
in LC Server that you need to write your own scripts for, like parsing 
incoming POST data and the like.  But if you already have those in place 
you can move your old .mt scripts into script-only stacks as libraries, 
changing "on startup" to "on libraryStack", and much of your code can 
remain unchanged.


 > Any help is appreciated.
 >
 > I would prefer not to discuss the merits or demerits of livecode.
 > I simply wish to install metacard, somehow.

Please consider the following only for the benefit of others, but as one 
of the former maintainers of the MetaCard IDE I feel obliged to note why 
the maintenance team has moved on:

Back during the acquisition of MetaCard by RunRev Ltd, many of us who 
had been using MC enjoyed it and saw no compelling reason to change our 
IDE.  With Dr. Raney's release of the MC IDE under MIT license, we 
formed a team to maintain it.  Much of that work was done by Klaus 
Major, Ken Ray, Jacque Gay, and myself, with many other contributors as 
well.

Over time, however, we found that the engine team was adding features 
faster than we could build UIs for them, so around v5.x we retired the 
MC IDE project.

Anyone with sufficient time and interest is welcome to carry the MC IDE 
forward, but Ken and I discussed this at length and for ourselves we 
felt our time would be better leveraged by crafting tools to make the LC 
IDE work more the way we want it to rather than to replicate everything 
in the LC IDE.  It's simply a lot of work, and much of it is quite good, 
so replicating it was a time sink we chose to avoid.

Given MC's somewhat sparse design, most of us who enjoyed it were able 
to only by building up our own tools around it.  Many of those, like 
Geoff's Navigator, now also work in LiveCode.

My own toolkit has recently been updated for LC v8, and while it relies 
on the LC IDE it does so with an unusual design that allows me to work 
very productively without ever seeing much of LC very often - the Help 
included in the plugin explains more:
<http://fourthworld.com/products/devolution/index.html>

All of this is just a long-winded way to get to a point that I feel is 
important for all of us, regardless of the UIs we enjoy working with:

A scripted IDE like LC's show allow infinite customization, so how we 
work with the engine is entirely up to us.  Vive le difference; "let a 
thousand flowers bloom", and all that.

But the engine is too expensive to replicate, so any deficiencies in 
performance or functionality need to be identified and submitted with 
clear recipes so they can be addressed.

OSes keep changing, and for the most part the engine team has been doing 
a good job keeping up with them. Mac is fast moving to a 64-bit 
requirement, and the Linux world has been predominantly 64-bit for a 
long time.   The current engine handles that quite well, along with v7's 
and v8's greatly improved GDK integration for us Ubuntu users (thanks 
again, Fraser!).

If you can modify your Ubuntu system to get an old MC engine to run at 
all, it likely won't look or behave well.

I believe it is a better investment of time to identify those specific 
areas of concern that make moving backwards seem attractive, and let's 
figure out the most expedient way to move those forward.

This way those specific concerns can be addressed, while you also get to 
enjoy the 2500+ fixes and enhancements that have been put into the 
engine over the last couple years.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From paul at whitefeather.com  Sat Mar 26 18:16:22 2016
From: paul at whitefeather.com (Paul Foraker)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 15:16:22 -0700
Subject: LiveCode and Alexa
Message-ID: <CA+emToDrPMTWjgfHjLN_xqsZO0u1ge_c0OEd8+TY_6xNkK+mmQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a potential client who wants a Mac desktop app for viewing Alexa
results. I see that Alexa has several APIs (
https://aws.amazon.com/tools/?nc1=f_dr) but I can't think of a way for
LiveCode to hook into one of those solutions.

Anyone have any experience with this?

-- Paul


From monte at appisle.net  Sat Mar 26 19:10:16 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:10:16 +1100
Subject: documentation submissions
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycOx+8P9jdKda7QTiqNM1WpTkNqTBch4wbVvhKsG0d86kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycOx+8P9jdKda7QTiqNM1WpTkNqTBch4wbVvhKsG0d86kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <30197A51-266A-4ED7-89B7-BA1DB2057395@appisle.net>


> On 27 Mar 2016, at 5:15 AM, Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> 
> Do we have a way to contribute to the docs, yet?  I didn't know if I should
> just make a submission through the documentation stack in 6/7, or if we had
> something new for 8.

Yes you can send a pull request after editing the lcdoc files in the docs directory of the engine repo.

Cheers

Monte

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Mar 26 19:19:51 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 16:19:51 -0700
Subject: Installing metacard on linux - cmd line or?
In-Reply-To: <56F6E4FE.2030507@fourthworld.com>
References: <56F6E4FE.2030507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56F71917.8020409@fourthworld.com>

I forgot one detail:

Eric A. Engle wrote:
 > ...really hate the fact that new stacks and old stacks are
 > incompatible.

As with all versions of MetaCard, stacks created with earlier version 
can be run in a more recent version.

And as with all versions of MetaCard, an older engine won't be able to 
recognize the format used by a newer engine, since of course the newer 
format didn't exist when the older engine was written.

But unlike all versions of MetaCard, you can choose "Save As" from the 
LC IDE's File menu and choose a format version you want the stack to be 
saved with.

All formats going back more than a decade are supported.  Of course if 
you use new objects or object properties those will be lost when saving 
to a format that doesn't support them, but of course if you're writing 
new code to take advantage of new properties you'd probably want to keep 
using a newer format anyway.

Better still:  once you've use the IDE's "Save As" and selected an 
earlier format, any time you use File -> Save in the IDE it'll continue 
to save the stack in that format.

So while we've always had to be mindful when adopting a new format since 
my earliest days with MC back in '98, now we have more flexibility with 
moving between current and older versions of the engine than we've ever 
had before.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Mar 26 19:40:50 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 23:40:50 +0000
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>



On 26/03/2016 07:35, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 25/03/2016 23:00, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>> How about a Feature Exchange for adding arrays ?   (i.e. not
>> dictionaries, but actual arrays with numeric indices and linear access
>> times)
>
> In LiveCode, we currently call these "proper lists".
>
> LiveCode arrays currently have O(log N) read and insertion complexity 
> in the general case (which is better than linear).
>
> If we were to add proper lists, we would probably use an 
> implementation with O(1) read and O(N) insertion complexity in the 
> general case.
>
Yes, sorry, I said it badly, leading to some confusion.
I meant "linear access time" for accessing every element of the array in 
turn - i.e. (roughly) equivalent to "constant access time" for an 
individual access.
> If you need proper lists, LiveCode Builder already provides them with 
> the "List" type.
>
I haven't found (can't find) a spec for LCB, so I'm not sure exactly 
what "proper lists" are - but I think maybe not quite what I meant.

I was thinking of "proper arrays" :-)  i.e. real, old-fashioned indexed 
arrays - see Algol, Fortran, etc.

So we would have
read access in constant time
write access in constant time
insertion complexity - there is no such thing as insertion :-)

OK, given that we would never want to require array declarations to 
define bounds, there might be some extra cost on extending the bounds, 
but that would be occasional, so we would in general have constant 
access time (for either read or write).

And, of course, if it were done in LCB it would be even more 
advantageous because we would pre-define the data type, and hence be 
able to do completely dense arrays, just like Fortran etc. (he said, 
making about 50 wild assumptions about a language he can't find a spec 
for :-)

Regards
-- Alex.



From mark at canelasoftware.com  Sat Mar 26 20:21:02 2016
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:21:02 -0700
Subject: Installing metacard on linux - cmd line or?
In-Reply-To: <56F6E4FE.2030507@fourthworld.com>
References: <1293818664.670863.1459013014894.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<56F6E4FE.2030507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C62C06DA-7FE1-4634-8C2C-BD096E0BA7EE@canelasoftware.com>


> On Mar 26, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> If you're looking for older versions of the MetaCard engine, Mark Talluto used to maintain an archive at his company's site, but I can't find the URL for that now.  Perhaps he can chime in with that, but given how much OSes have changed since the MC engine was last updated I'd be surprised if it ran on any current version of Linux, Mac, or Windows.


http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard23/index.html
http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard24/index.html
http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard25/index.html
http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard242/index.html
http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard243/index.html


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io <http://www.livecloud.io/>
canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>





From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Mar 26 20:38:20 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:38:20 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Blog Post
Message-ID: <D31C798C.7DE05%scott@tactilemedia.com>

New blog article about crazy fast blur and pixelizing effects, with sample
stacks.


http://tactilemedia.com/blog/


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design






From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 05:07:28 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 12:07:28 +0300
Subject: Installing metacard on linux - cmd line or?
In-Reply-To: <C62C06DA-7FE1-4634-8C2C-BD096E0BA7EE@canelasoftware.com>
References: <1293818664.670863.1459013014894.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<56F6E4FE.2030507@fourthworld.com>
	<C62C06DA-7FE1-4634-8C2C-BD096E0BA7EE@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <56F7A2D0.9040903@gmail.com>

Oddly enough I've just got MetaCard 2.5 running on Xubuntu 15.10 64 bit!

Mind you, having done that I'm packing it away and getting on with 
producing stuff for my school
using LiveCode 7.1.

Richmond.

On 27.03.2016 02:21, Mark Talluto wrote:
>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you're looking for older versions of the MetaCard engine, Mark Talluto used to maintain an archive at his company's site, but I can't find the URL for that now.  Perhaps he can chime in with that, but given how much OSes have changed since the MC engine was last updated I'd be surprised if it ran on any current version of Linux, Mac, or Windows.
>
> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard23/index.html
> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard24/index.html
> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard25/index.html
> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard242/index.html
> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard243/index.html
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io <http://www.livecloud.io/>
> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From peter.brett at livecode.com  Sun Mar 27 05:42:33 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:42:33 +0100
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <56F7AB09.6010408@livecode.com>

On 26/03/2016 23:40, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> I haven't found (can't find) a spec for LCB, so I'm not sure exactly
> what "proper lists" are - but I think maybe not quite what I meant.

There's a spec in the "Guides" tab of the LC8 dictionary -- look for 
"LiveCode Builder Language Reference".  There's also a whole LCB 
dictionary section in the "Dictionary" tab that describes all the syntax 
relating to working with Lists.

> I was thinking of "proper arrays" :-)  i.e. real, old-fashioned indexed
> arrays - see Algol, Fortran, etc.
>
> So we would have
> read access in constant time
> write access in constant time
> insertion complexity - there is no such thing as insertion :-)

Yes.  We're talking about the same thing.  The LCB "List" datatype is 
this datastructure.

                             Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From ebeugelaar at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 07:35:08 2016
From: ebeugelaar at gmail.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 13:35:08 +0200
Subject: LiveCode and Alexa
In-Reply-To: <CA+emToDrPMTWjgfHjLN_xqsZO0u1ge_c0OEd8+TY_6xNkK+mmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+emToDrPMTWjgfHjLN_xqsZO0u1ge_c0OEd8+TY_6xNkK+mmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FC490F5F-8331-4A7D-88CC-EEC423D77F1A@gmail.com>

Paul,

Unfortunately I don?t have a complete example but looking at the Alexa API services they are simply HTTP GET requests that return XML.
No need for JSON parsing so far I have seen.

Please take a look at:

1. http://livecode.byu.edu/internet/webServices.php	(Example of HTTP GET request)
2. http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24201		(Example of JSON)

For sure there are in the forum more examples of how to deal with webservices.

Good luck,
Erik


Sent from solidit <http://www.solidit.nl/>   






On 26/03/16 23:16, "use-livecode on behalf of Paul Foraker" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of paul at whitefeather.com> wrote:

>I have a potential client who wants a Mac desktop app for viewing Alexa
>results. I see that Alexa has several APIs (
>https://aws.amazon.com/tools/?nc1=f_dr) but I can't think of a way for
>LiveCode to hook into one of those solutions.
>
>Anyone have any experience with this?
>
>-- Paul
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 09:39:04 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:39:04 +0300
Subject: Grab Me
Message-ID: <56F7E278.1000507@gmail.com>

Go on: I dare you:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/djb48g4otvv9pgf/FLATdemo.livecode.zip?dl=0

Richmond.



From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Sun Mar 27 09:21:25 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] Blog Post
In-Reply-To: <D31C798C.7DE05%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <D31C798C.7DE05%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <1459084885101-4702652.post@n4.nabble.com>

Scott Rossi wrote
> New blog article about crazy fast blur and pixelizing effects, with sample
> stacks.
> 
> 
> http://tactilemedia.com/blog/
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design

Thank you for sharing this. It is a ultra cool use of existing techniques
and as you say amazingly fast.

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Blog-Post-tp4702647p4702652.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Mar 27 12:33:34 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 17:33:34 +0100
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F7AB09.6010408@livecode.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
	<56F7AB09.6010408@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56F80B5E.9050500@tweedly.net>



On 27/03/2016 10:42, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> On 26/03/2016 23:40, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>> I haven't found (can't find) a spec for LCB, so I'm not sure exactly
>> what "proper lists" are - but I think maybe not quite what I meant.
>
> There's a spec in the "Guides" tab of the LC8 dictionary -- look for 
> "LiveCode Builder Language Reference".
I see that, but the ONLY mention it makes of lists are:
  - it is one of the Types
  - it holds a "sequence of values"
  - what a ListExpression is.

> There's also a whole LCB dictionary section in the "Dictionary" tab 
> that describes all the syntax relating to working with Lists.
True - but sadly there's no effective way to filter those 523 entries to 
see only the ones that are relevant to a List type.
>
>> I was thinking of "proper arrays" :-) i.e. real, old-fashioned indexed
>> arrays - see Algol, Fortran, etc.
>>
>> So we would have
>> read access in constant time
>> write access in constant time
>> insertion complexity - there is no such thing as insertion :-)
>
> Yes.  We're talking about the same thing.  The LCB "List" datatype is 
> this datastructure.
>
I suspect we're not quite talking about the same thing - I think 'proper 
lists' are something more powerful than I was picturing, but can do 
everything I am looking for - and a whole lot more. If I simply ignore 
all that "more", then they do what I am hoping for.

Many thanks for you patience explaining this.
I'll go start playing with LCB and try to ask harder questions :-)

Thanks
-- Alex.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Mar 27 15:10:58 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 12:10:58 -0700
Subject: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
Message-ID: <56F83042.30108@fourthworld.com>

Pierre, thanks for introducing me to Siege in your benchmark posts from Feb.

For those who missed them he has some great stuff there:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-February/223352.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-February/223496.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-February/223514.html

Below are this morning's Siege runs here on a small NUC.  Each test is 
just delivering the default Apache page, but done in three ways: first 
Apache alone, then LC Server running under Apache as a CGI, then with 
just a LiveCode standalone handling HTTP directly:


Apache 2.4.12
-------------
 > siege http://<domain>/index.html -b -c200 -r10 -q
Transactions:		        2000 hits
Availability:		      100.00 %
Elapsed time:		       29.38 secs
Data transferred:	        6.07 MB
Response time:		        2.49 secs
Transaction rate:	       68.07 trans/sec
Throughput:		        0.21 MB/sec
Concurrency:		      169.45
Successful transactions:        2000
Failed transactions:	           0
Longest transaction:	       20.78
Shortest transaction:	        0.22

Apache + CGI, LC Server 8.0dp16
-------------------------------
 > siege http://<domain>/tindex.lc -b -c200 -r10 -q
Transactions:		        2000 hits
Availability:		      100.00 %
Elapsed time:		       53.79 secs
Data transferred:	        6.07 MB
Response time:		        5.22 secs
Transaction rate:	       37.18 trans/sec
Throughput:		        0.11 MB/sec
Concurrency:		      194.18
Successful transactions:        2000
Failed transactions:	           0
Longest transaction:	       10.42
Shortest transaction:	        0.23

lcHTTPd standalone, made with LC 8.0dp16
----------------------------------------
 > siege http://<domain>:8080/index.html -b -c200 -r10 -q
Transactions:		        2000 hits
Availability:		      100.00 %
Elapsed time:		       12.55 secs
Data transferred:	        6.07 MB
Response time:		        1.07 secs
Transaction rate:	      159.36 trans/sec
Throughput:		        0.48 MB/sec
Concurrency:		      170.67
Successful transactions:        2000
Failed transactions:	           0
Longest transaction:	        3.29
Shortest transaction:	        0.07


Not shown in Siege but observable in Htop is the impact on CPU: both 
Apache by itself and the lcHTTPd standalone run the test without ever 
going much above 25% load, but Apache + LC Server spikes all four cores 
of the N3150 in my NUC for almost the full duration of the test.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com        http://www.FourthWorld.com



From admin at FlexibleLearning.com  Sun Mar 27 15:19:32 2016
From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:19:32 +0100
Subject: Installing metacard on linux - cmd line or?
Message-ID: <007201d1885d$98337420$c89a5c60$@FlexibleLearning.com>

MC runs fine on Windows 10, all versions that I use from v4.5  to v7 (except
the MC properties palette under v7 can sometimes cause problems). Can't help
you with Linux

Hugh Senior (Old Guard)
FLCo

> Oddly enough I've just got MetaCard 2.5 running on Xubuntu 15.10 64 bit!
> 
> Mind you, having done that I'm packing it away and getting on with
> producing stuff for my school
> using LiveCode 7.1.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 27.03.2016 02:21, Mark Talluto wrote:
> >> On Mar 26, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Richard Gaskin
> <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> If you're looking for older versions of the MetaCard engine, Mark
Talluto
> used to maintain an archive at his company's site, but I can't find the
URL for
> that now.  Perhaps he can chime in with that, but given how much OSes have
> changed since the MC engine was last updated I'd be surprised if it ran on
> any current version of Linux, Mac, or Windows.
> >
> > http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard23/index.html
> > http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard24/index.html
> > http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard25/index.html
> > http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard242/index.html
> > http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard243/index.html
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Mark Talluto
> > livecloud.io <http://www.livecloud.io/>
> > canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 15:47:28 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:47:28 +0300
Subject: Installing metacard on linux - cmd line or?
In-Reply-To: <007201d1885d$98337420$c89a5c60$@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <007201d1885d$98337420$c89a5c60$@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <56F838D0.3020200@gmail.com>

I tried to"upgrade" MetaCard 2.5 using Jacque's stack: 
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/590/MetaCard-Setup-2-02

and LiveCode 7.1, and ended up with an odd, icon-less "thing" that 
didn't get any further than that.

Quite honestly I cannot see any obvious advantages using the MetaCard 
GUI rather than the LiveCode one: it
looks a bit masochistic frankly.

Richmond.

On 27.03.2016 22:19, FlexibleLearning.com wrote:
> MC runs fine on Windows 10, all versions that I use from v4.5  to v7 (except
> the MC properties palette under v7 can sometimes cause problems). Can't help
> you with Linux
>
> Hugh Senior (Old Guard)
> FLCo
>
>> Oddly enough I've just got MetaCard 2.5 running on Xubuntu 15.10 64 bit!
>>
>> Mind you, having done that I'm packing it away and getting on with
>> producing stuff for my school
>> using LiveCode 7.1.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 27.03.2016 02:21, Mark Talluto wrote:
>>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Richard Gaskin
>> <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>>>> If you're looking for older versions of the MetaCard engine, Mark
> Talluto
>> used to maintain an archive at his company's site, but I can't find the
> URL for
>> that now.  Perhaps he can chime in with that, but given how much OSes have
>> changed since the MC engine was last updated I'd be surprised if it ran on
>> any current version of Linux, Mac, or Windows.
>>> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard23/index.html
>>> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard24/index.html
>>> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard25/index.html
>>> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard242/index.html
>>> http://canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard243/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Mark Talluto
>>> livecloud.io <http://www.livecloud.io/>
>>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Sun Mar 27 15:47:23 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:47:23 +0000
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F80B5E.9050500@tweedly.net>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
	<56F7AB09.6010408@livecode.com> <56F80B5E.9050500@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1ghtuL7w2R2xL5pmpprksaZzm3x103yCxzP6qM9Km7xHA@mail.gmail.com>

> True - but sadly there's no effective way to filter those 523 entries to
> see only the ones that are relevant to a List type.

One way to do this is to click the 'lists' filter in the tags section.

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 5:33 PM Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 27/03/2016 10:42, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> > On 26/03/2016 23:40, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> >> I haven't found (can't find) a spec for LCB, so I'm not sure exactly
> >> what "proper lists" are - but I think maybe not quite what I meant.
> >
> > There's a spec in the "Guides" tab of the LC8 dictionary -- look for
> > "LiveCode Builder Language Reference".
> I see that, but the ONLY mention it makes of lists are:
>   - it is one of the Types
>   - it holds a "sequence of values"
>   - what a ListExpression is.
>
> > There's also a whole LCB dictionary section in the "Dictionary" tab
> > that describes all the syntax relating to working with Lists.
> True - but sadly there's no effective way to filter those 523 entries to
> see only the ones that are relevant to a List type.
> >
> >> I was thinking of "proper arrays" :-) i.e. real, old-fashioned indexed
> >> arrays - see Algol, Fortran, etc.
> >>
> >> So we would have
> >> read access in constant time
> >> write access in constant time
> >> insertion complexity - there is no such thing as insertion :-)
> >
> > Yes.  We're talking about the same thing.  The LCB "List" datatype is
> > this datastructure.
> >
> I suspect we're not quite talking about the same thing - I think 'proper
> lists' are something more powerful than I was picturing, but can do
> everything I am looking for - and a whole lot more. If I simply ignore
> all that "more", then they do what I am hoping for.
>
> Many thanks for you patience explaining this.
> I'll go start playing with LCB and try to ask harder questions :-)
>
> Thanks
> -- Alex.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From jiml at netrin.com  Sun Mar 27 16:45:27 2016
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 13:45:27 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Blog Post 
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1459072803.31379.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.3.1459072803.31379.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9779987E-78FA-4D4F-B927-421DDC863665@netrin.com>

Scott,

Surprisingly fast. Thanks.

Jim Lambert



From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 27 18:26:55 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:26:55 +0000
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
Message-ID: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Our design team finished a design for a mobile app. The used rounded corners everywhere.

see

http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/radius-all-corners.jpg

Something I wished we had in LC for all controls (groups included) is corner radius, but is is only available for graphics objects.


set the roundRadius of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to pValue

I'm digging in the forums for info an masks etc... but I'm out of my depth here.

I'm thinking this is probably (I hope)  not that hard to implement.

it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and give the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do I get the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded corners of the background graphic?

BR

From zryip.theslug at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 18:29:01 2016
From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 00:29:01 +0200
Subject: [ANN] DGH 2.1 for LC 8.x and new cloning options
Message-ID: <CANbzFDrWk4E0jz+JGqtM3q5-Jq0jmh-P6MTBo7THALT1ZkDPzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List Members and DGH Users,


I am pleased to announce the release of a new Data Grid Helper
version, compatible with LC 8.


In this new version, we have also:

1. New features:

- Addition of a "Contents" button in the "Content" topic allowing
edition of the selected datagrid's content.
- The cloning (mimestim) feature is fully rewritten. New options are
now available for deciding what part of the datagrid is to clone
amongs "Properties", "Column properties", "Columns" or "Templates".

2. Changes:

The iOS scroller script supports iOS and Android.


If you are a DGH user, you can get this new version by downloading it
directly with DGH. Just hit the "Check for updates" button in the
DGH's preferences panel.

Note the updater button is available only in the DGH commercial version.

For more informations about DGH:
http://www.aslugontheroad.com/ourproducts/2-what-is-dgh

DGH in the LiveCode Store:
https://livecode.com/products/thirdparty/aslugontheroad/data-grid-helper-1-3-4/



Best Regards,
-- 
Zryip TheSlug
http://www.aslugontheroad.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Mar 27 18:39:07 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 23:39:07 +0100
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1ghtuL7w2R2xL5pmpprksaZzm3x103yCxzP6qM9Km7xHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
	<56F7AB09.6010408@livecode.com> <56F80B5E.9050500@tweedly.net>
	<CAJR0Q1ghtuL7w2R2xL5pmpprksaZzm3x103yCxzP6qM9Km7xHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F8610B.6010004@tweedly.net>



On 27/03/2016 20:47, Ali Lloyd wrote:
>> True - but sadly there's no effective way to filter those 523 entries to
>> see only the ones that are relevant to a List type.
> One way to do this is to click the 'lists' filter in the tags section.
Thanks.
I had tried typing 'list' into the search box, which 
over-enthusiastically reduced the entries to only 7 :-)

The tag works much better ....

Thanks
-- Alex.



From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 27 18:46:52 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:46:52 +0000
Subject: scrolbardrag not working LC8 p16?
Message-ID: <etPan.56f862db.292217cc.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

See other post on rounded corners..

I downloaded an old stack by Bernd that has controls to adjust a graphic to look like a button.

But scrollBarDrag doesn't seem to work


on scrollbarDrag pValue

put pvalue

put the loc of grc "roundRectAngleButton" into tLoc

set the roundRadius of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to pValue

set the loc of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to tLoc

end scrollbarDrag

Drag the scrollbar and no value is returned.

I don't get any value returned in the msg box.

Am i doing anything wrong?




From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Sun Mar 27 18:53:57 2016
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 00:53:57 +0200
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56F86485.9020809@economy-x-talk.com>

I had a mobile app project where the designers did exactly the same. 
They put round corners everywhere, around every element in the app. The 
result was a lot of unused space. It was cumbersome and inefficient and 
in the end it didn't look well. We decided to use straight corbers and 
the app looked a gazillion times better than before.

If you still want this, you can create round rectangles and adjust the 
corners dynamically using the roundRadius. Use the rectangles as 
backgrounds of groups.

Kind regards,

Mark Schonewille
http://economy-x-talk.com
https://www.facebook.com/marksch

Buy the most extensive book on the
LiveCode language:
http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com

Op 28-Mar-16 om 00:26 schreef Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami:
> Our design team finished a design for a mobile app. The used rounded corners everywhere.
>
> see
>
> http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/radius-all-corners.jpg
>
> Something I wished we had in LC for all controls (groups included) is corner radius, but is is only available for graphics objects.
>
>
> set the roundRadius of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to pValue
>
> I'm digging in the forums for info an masks etc... but I'm out of my depth here.
>
> I'm thinking this is probably (I hope)  not that hard to implement.
>
> it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and give the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do I get the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded corners of the background graphic?
>
> BR
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 27 18:55:52 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:55:52 +0000
Subject: Selecting Object invokes inspector for "revFrontScriptLibrary"
Message-ID: <etPan.56f864f7.2f2c3647.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Frequently today.. .when I double click on a control in a stack, the inspector pops open with "revFrontScriptLibrary"

It seems to happen  in a sequence like this

1) create graphic

2) double click on graphic --> inspector opens

3) Click to choose colors --> click background color

4) color wheel opens

5) chose color and close color wheel

6) click again on the graphic

Inspector now changes to "revFrontScriptLibrary"  and not the currently selected graphic.

can anyone confirm? if so I will "bug it"

BR

From dochawk at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 19:03:47 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:03:47 -0700
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSFi75p8nfg8aSeSdHGO9Lv-B3Srwy8AUAZ80pL7sDbrCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> e, and hence be able to do completely dense arrays, just like Fortran etc.
> (he said, making about 50 wild assumptions about a language he can't find a
> spec for :-)


Just to throw gas on the flames (petrol for you cross-atlantans) . . .

Fortran can have sparse arrays, far larger than memory or disk storage . . .


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 27 19:05:44 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 23:05:44 +0000
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <56F86485.9020809@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56F86485.9020809@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f86747.73356a43.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Did you look at the screenshot?

They are using 10 px radius and there really is not a lot of wasted space

I'm testing now... create a graphic 410 wide and 100 tall, set roundradius to 1, then put a small image on top over on the right half ... oddly to my eye, if I set the right of the image to e.g 411 and the right of the graphic to 412.. it *appears* as of the image is masked... I suspect we will see her sharp corner of the image on a retina display though, so this is just a temp hack for now.



On March 27, 2016 at 12:54:14 PM, Mark Schonewille (m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com<mailto:m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com>) wrote:

I had a mobile app project where the designers did exactly the same.
They put round corners everywhere, around every element in the app. The
result was a lot of unused space. It was cumbersome and inefficient and
in the end it didn't look well. We decided to use straight corbers and
the app looked a gazillion times better than before.

If you still want this, you can create round rectangles and adjust the
corners dynamically using the roundRadius. Use the rectangles as
backgrounds of groups.

From sc at sahores-conseil.com  Sun Mar 27 19:17:20 2016
From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 01:17:20 +0200
Subject: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
In-Reply-To: <56F83042.30108@fourthworld.com>
References: <56F83042.30108@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EE7B9D98-33DD-47A6-ABAF-5611649ADDF7@sahores-conseil.com>

Hi Richard,

Good stuff, this siege, is?t ? Probably more readable than Apache Bench. Stay tuned. I will be back soon with more to share : advanced testing against a real word web application with up to seventy PostgreSQL calls per request (ways to setup best pg urbanization but the goal was in this case to test the app?s ability to resist to heavy loads) the results will probably seems amazing at some point :

LiveCode application?s server outperforms LuaJIT with an ability to deliver 80 transactions/second (per core/socket binding) where the Lua version of the same web app deliver 13 connections/second only in the same conditions.

It?s not surprising at all as LuaJIT runs the Lua version of this app in FASTCGI mode (process started from RAM) where the Livecode one don?t restart at all for each socket?s incoming request and, even, is able to cache in hash tables redundant PostgreSQL responses (active cache application level proxy).

I?m, at this time, porting my Livecode?s application?s server to Lua (srLua should be used) to see if this implementation will become as fast as the LC original. It should be the case ? or not. I expect to publish both the LC and Lua versions of those application?s servers on GITHUB as GPL3 (Livecode) and MIT (Lua) licensed stuff as soon as the second one will be up and running.

The more i can say at this point, is that Tomcat7, JBoss2 and PHP5.6 are definitively the turtles of the competition :

- Ubuntu / Openresty / Lua round-robin proxy and TCP sockets gateway / Livecode Application Server / PostgreSQL : 80 t/s per server?s core
- Ubuntu / Openresty / PHP round-robin proxy and TCP sockets gateway / Livecode Application Server / PostgreSQL : 14 t/s per server?s core
- Ubuntu / Openresty / Lua Web Application (server page mode) / PostgreSQL : 13 t/s per server?s core
- Ubuntu / Openresty / FASTCGI / Livecode CGI server / PostgreSQL : 10 t/s per server?s core

note 1 : My Tomcat7?s and JBoss2 first tests went so low performant that i stopped to code the Java?s implementations of the test app (Scala code is not really a pleasure to write, to the end...) as soon as i could seen that they would never do best than PHP?
note 2 : While MySQL/MariaDB running the InnoDB engine are able to be 3 times faster than PostgreSQL 9.5 against atomic requests in read mode, PostgreSQL become up to 8 times faster than MySQL/MariaDB as soon as real world requests (READ with Inner joints, full text search in vector mode, etc?) are served. In about write mode requests, PostgreSQL outperforms for years MySQL and, even Oracle 8i to 11g (can?t say about 12c) ?
note 3 : Livecode and Lua shares 90% of their concepts and anyone coding in one of them should be very confortable in the other one in some hours. The main difference i can see is that some tierce-party Lua modules are not reliable at all (some DB drivers and Json parsers, at least) while in using trusty sourced ones only, development cycles are just as fast an reliable as they are in using Livecode.
note 4 : Openresty (Nginx + LuaJIT + native RDBMS drivers and lots more) outperforms definitively Apache as a Livecode or Lua server side platform. Its speed and security model (WAF using locations and IP/Port rules, etc?) are just amazing and no far from perfect, conceptually speaking. A pleasure to work with !

Cheers,

Pierre
--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com




From sc at sahores-conseil.com  Sun Mar 27 19:30:53 2016
From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 01:30:53 +0200
Subject: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
In-Reply-To: <56F83042.30108@fourthworld.com>
References: <56F83042.30108@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20E5F40F-BA64-4A16-8AA7-E780D28A4C62@sahores-conseil.com>

Richard,

If your lcHTTPd standalone is a TCP sockets server, the low TOP load (less than 25%) is not surprising at all and can even go lots less in using nginx instead of apache (6 to 8%) while the power consomption increase on the PostgreSQL controllers pool side (-> LC app?s server will never acts as a bottleneck in the global service stack). 

Best,

Pierre

Le 27 mars 2016 ? 21:10, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> a ?crit :
> 
> 
> Pierre, thanks for introducing me to Siege in your benchmark posts from Feb.
> 
> For those who missed them he has some great stuff there:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-February/223352.html
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-February/223496.html
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-February/223514.html
> 
> Below are this morning's Siege runs here on a small NUC.  Each test is just delivering the default Apache page, but done in three ways: first Apache alone, then LC Server running under Apache as a CGI, then with just a LiveCode standalone handling HTTP directly:
> 
> 
> Apache 2.4.12
> -------------
> > siege http://<domain>/index.html -b -c200 -r10 -q
> Transactions:		        2000 hits
> Availability:		      100.00 %
> Elapsed time:		       29.38 secs
> Data transferred:	        6.07 MB
> Response time:		        2.49 secs
> Transaction rate:	       68.07 trans/sec
> Throughput:		        0.21 MB/sec
> Concurrency:		      169.45
> Successful transactions:        2000
> Failed transactions:	           0
> Longest transaction:	       20.78
> Shortest transaction:	        0.22
> 
> Apache + CGI, LC Server 8.0dp16
> -------------------------------
> > siege http://<domain>/tindex.lc -b -c200 -r10 -q
> Transactions:		        2000 hits
> Availability:		      100.00 %
> Elapsed time:		       53.79 secs
> Data transferred:	        6.07 MB
> Response time:		        5.22 secs
> Transaction rate:	       37.18 trans/sec
> Throughput:		        0.11 MB/sec
> Concurrency:		      194.18
> Successful transactions:        2000
> Failed transactions:	           0
> Longest transaction:	       10.42
> Shortest transaction:	        0.23
> 
> lcHTTPd standalone, made with LC 8.0dp16
> ----------------------------------------
> > siege http://<domain>:8080/index.html -b -c200 -r10 -q
> Transactions:		        2000 hits
> Availability:		      100.00 %
> Elapsed time:		       12.55 secs
> Data transferred:	        6.07 MB
> Response time:		        1.07 secs
> Transaction rate:	      159.36 trans/sec
> Throughput:		        0.48 MB/sec
> Concurrency:		      170.67
> Successful transactions:        2000
> Failed transactions:	           0
> Longest transaction:	        3.29
> Shortest transaction:	        0.07
> 
> 
> Not shown in Siege but observable in Htop is the impact on CPU: both Apache by itself and the lcHTTPd standalone run the test without ever going much above 25% load, but Apache + LC Server spikes all four cores of the N3150 in my NUC for almost the full duration of the test.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
> ____________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com        http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com




From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Mar 27 19:36:59 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 00:36:59 +0100
Subject: (way OT, WAS: )Re: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSFi75p8nfg8aSeSdHGO9Lv-B3Srwy8AUAZ80pL7sDbrCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
	<CANQHZSFi75p8nfg8aSeSdHGO9Lv-B3Srwy8AUAZ80pL7sDbrCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F86E9B.3080109@tweedly.net>

Hmmm ... not real Fortran. (that should be said in a deep, impressive 
voice)
Real Fortran died when Fortran 77 took over :-(

And, AFAIK, only those modern variants from (I think) Fortran90 onwards 
have sparse arrays.

(I have to confess I last wrote a line of Fortran professionally in 
1988, and it was indeed in F77, so I'm exaggerating slightly)

-- Alex.



On 28/03/2016 00:03, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:
>
>> e, and hence be able to do completely dense arrays, just like Fortran etc.
>> (he said, making about 50 wild assumptions about a language he can't find a
>> spec for :-)
>
> Just to throw gas on the flames (petrol for you cross-atlantans) . . .
>
> Fortran can have sparse arrays, far larger than memory or disk storage . . .
>
>




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Mar 27 19:42:11 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:42:11 -0700
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>

One way is using ink effects.  In a group with the roundRect graphic
layered above the image:
blendSrcOver applied to the group
blendDstIn applied to the graphic

You might want to take a look at the stack provided in this article for
ideas:
http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2015/11/04/livecode-basics-masking-objects/


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 3:26 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
brahma at hindu.org> wrote:

>Our design team finished a design for a mobile app. The used rounded
>corners everywhere.
>
>see
>
>http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/radius-all-corners.jpg
>
>Something I wished we had in LC for all controls (groups included) is
>corner radius, but is is only available for graphics objects.
>
>
>set the roundRadius of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to pValue
>
>I'm digging in the forums for info an masks etc... but I'm out of my
>depth here.
>
>I'm thinking this is probably (I hope)  not that hard to implement.
>
>it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and give
>the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do I get
>the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded corners of
>the background graphic?
>
>BR
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From dochawk at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 19:59:13 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:59:13 -0700
Subject: (way OT, WAS: )Re: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <56F86E9B.3080109@tweedly.net>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
	<CANQHZSFi75p8nfg8aSeSdHGO9Lv-B3Srwy8AUAZ80pL7sDbrCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F86E9B.3080109@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSHqtfdSc7_hD4guDz8boca+-Pg_RkgXwfiCaKhuEyM60A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Hmmm ... not real Fortran. (that should be said in a deep, impressive
> voice)
> Real Fortran died when Fortran 77 took over :-(
>

I've been out-crankied!

>
> And, AFAIK, only those modern variants from (I think) Fortran90 onwards
> have sparse arrays.
>

Yes, I designed the algorithm for my dissertation in Fortran 90, longing
for some of the F95 features that weren't available yet.

Sparse arrays would have been useful, except for the detail that the
elements that I *was* generating in my search dwarfed the size of physical
memory . . .



-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar 27 20:59:06 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 17:59:06 -0700
Subject: Installing metacard on linux - cmd line or?
In-Reply-To: <56F838D0.3020200@gmail.com>
References: <007201d1885d$98337420$c89a5c60$@FlexibleLearning.com>
	<56F838D0.3020200@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F881DA.3080407@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/27/2016 12:47 PM, RM wrote:

> Quite honestly I cannot see any obvious advantages using the MetaCard
> GUI rather than the LiveCode one: it
> looks a bit masochistic frankly.

Yes, but the OP has her/his (I no longer remember) set on MC, so there 
you go. I supported MetaCard in my apps until it got to the point where 
I could count the MC users without taking my shoes off. Then dropped 
support, and I have yet to hear a complaint.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 21:30:20 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:30:20 -0700
Subject: revIgniter installation
Message-ID: <CA+S82DpiLSA2okZh72CM-a3sYaHScv0MChD2G1QtRxo+49b22w@mail.gmail.com>

Can someone help clarify the revIgniter installation instructions?

I'm trying to get started with learning how to work with this tool but it's
assuming more experience than I have.

I want to confirm that I got my own computer and my server setup correctly
for working with FileZilla and revIgniter. The original instructions are
copied below for reference.

1) download revIgniter.zip
2) extract revIgniter.zip
3) open folder revIgniter1.8.1
4) select everything and send it to a new *.zip file
5) rename that new *.zip file something meaningful
6) fire up cPanel for website
7) navigate to public_html/website.com
8) upload somethingMeaningful.zip
9) extract somethingMeaningful.zip
-- now you've got public_html/website.com/index.lc (instead of public_html/
website.com/revIgniter1.8.1/index.lc)
10) go back to your computer
11) create a folder called website.com
12) extract somethingMeaningful.zip into website.com
13) get FileZilla all credentialed up and tell it to synchronize browsing
between website.com on your computer and on the server
14) the base URL in revIgniter's application/config/config.lc will be
www.website.com

A lot of this is because cPanel will only upload multiple files and/or
folders if they're zipped together and FileZilla will only upload
individual items; it won't sync entire repositories.

So, at the end of this, what I've got is the contents of revIgniter1.8.1 is
now the contents of website.com on my computer and server. Now when I edit
or add to revIgniter's templates on my computer I can upload the changes to
the right places on the server using FileZilla. Did I do that correctly?

Installation Instructions

revIgniter is installed in four steps:

   1. Unzip the package.
   2. Upload the revIgniter folders and files to your server. Normally the
   index.lc file will be at your root.
   3. Open the application/config/config.lc file with a text editor and set
   your base URL. If you intend to use encryption or sessions, set your
   encryption key.
   4. If you intend to use a database, open the application/config/
   database.lc file with a text editor and set your database settings.

If you wish to hide the location of your revIgniter files you can rename
the system folder to something more private. If you do rename it, you must
open your main index.lc file and set the gSystemFolder variable at the top
of the page with the new name you've chosen.

To increase security even further you can move your system and application
folder above web root. Before doing so please read the section Managing
Your Application
<http://revigniter.com/userGuide/general/managing_apps.html>.

That's it!

If you're new to revIgniter, please read the Getting Started
<http://revigniter.com/userGuide/overview/getting_started.html> section of
the User Guide to begin learning how to build dynamic irev applications.
Enjoy!


From prothero at earthednet.org  Sun Mar 27 21:42:50 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:42:50 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f6e035.6175300b.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
	<7668D184-F536-4C30-9BBE-B7BFA145D95E@livecode.org>
	<etPan.56f6e035.6175300b.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <3D8FA438-9412-48FE-AF88-4D48EE103DA1@earthednet.org>

I see similar behaviors in the IDE in DP16. It seems to forget which stack is in focus and does unexpected things.
Bill

> On Mar 26, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> I had an odd incident in a different context but similar "paradigm"  i.e. as if the IDE lost track or the focused object/stack.  I had a stack open, a button selected, and the inspector open, and the graphics effects selected in the inspector. I pressed delete to delete the button. Instead of deleting the button, one of the buttons of the stack inspector for graphics effects disappeared... after that "all hell broke loose" with respect to selecting any object and trying to open an inspector for it. IDE had gone to the looney farm. Totally unqualified of course... which is impossible to bug report.
> 
> I just quit, rebooted LC and started again.. never able to reproduce this. So, this is not the same as a card, but loss of "where am I exactly"  smells like similar rotten mango, if you get my meaning.
> 
> Which stack is on First?
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> On March 25, 2016 at 2:11:33 PM, paul at livecode.org (paul at livecode.org<mailto:paul at livecode.org>) wrote:
> 
> Bill,
> 
> I tried this and saw the problem once!, but now I?m not seeing it happen again. That?s kind of a familiar scenario with LC8 for me, often makes me think I?m doing something wrong, but then I can?t find enough evidence to make a recipe for a bug report.
> 
> When I get a few minutes spare I?ll try again with some different stacks, I do see odd results with the PB from time to time and the only way to get rid of them is to close and re-open the PB palette, that?s why I suggested a refresh button, but Mark Waddingham doesn?t want to go down that route. I do understand, but it is still frustrating at times.
> 
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 27 21:52:30 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 01:52:30 +0000
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f88e5d.295a10dd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Scott, thanks stack downloaded

Fascinating technique.

But your example uses an oval... but if I use  graphic style  "round rectangle" -- the technique fails -- or I am missing something.

Can you try it there?

tks


On March 27, 2016 at 1:42:52 PM, Scott Rossi (scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:

One way is using ink effects. In a group with the roundRect graphic
layered above the image:
blendSrcOver applied to the group
blendDstIn applied to the graphic

You might want to take a look at the stack provided in this article for
ideas:
http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2015/11/04/livecode-basics-masking-objects/


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 3:26 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
brahma at hindu.org> wrote:

>Our design team finished a design for a mobile app. The used rounded
>corners everywhere.
>
>see
>
>http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/radius-all-corners.jpg
>
>Something I wished we had in LC for all controls (groups included) is
>corner radius, but is is only available for graphics objects.
>
>
>set the roundRadius of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to pValue
>
>I'm digging in the forums for info an masks etc... but I'm out of my
>depth here.
>
>I'm thinking this is probably (I hope) not that hard to implement.
>
>it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and give
>the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do I get
>the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded corners of
>the background graphic?
>
>BR
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 22:01:11 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:01:11 +0800
Subject: [OT] KickStarter - OLO 3d Printer
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>

For anyone interested in 3D printing, or just a runaway KickStarter campaign:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/olo3d/olo-the-first-ever-smartphone-3d-printer

Where will technology take us tomorrow?



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar 27 22:06:35 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:06:35 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <3D8FA438-9412-48FE-AF88-4D48EE103DA1@earthednet.org>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
	<7668D184-F536-4C30-9BBE-B7BFA145D95E@livecode.org>
	<etPan.56f6e035.6175300b.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<3D8FA438-9412-48FE-AF88-4D48EE103DA1@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56F891AB.6040709@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/27/2016 06:42 PM, William Prothero wrote:
> I see similar behaviors in the IDE in DP16. It seems to forget which stack is in focus and does unexpected things.

I tried using the Project Browser yesterday, and three times I deleted 
the wrong object because I couldn't tell which one was actually 
selected, and had to revert to backups because you can't undo that.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar 27 22:07:54 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:07:54 -0700
Subject: [OT] KickStarter - OLO 3d Printer
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F891FA.6000100@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/27/2016 07:01 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:
> For anyone interested in 3D printing, or just a runaway KickStarter campaign:

I ordered mine in the first half-hour after it went live.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Mar 27 22:12:14 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:12:14 -0700
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f88e5d.295a10dd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f88e5d.295a10dd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <D31DDF93.7DEB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

An oval is the same as a roundRect, just with larger radii.  The technique
doesn't "fail" as shown in the demo stack, so yes, you may indeed be
missing something.  Make sure you have the inks applied properly.

go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/RoundCornerSample.livecode"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 6:52 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
brahma at hindu.org> wrote:

>Scott, thanks stack downloaded
>
>Fascinating technique.
>
>But your example uses an oval... but if I use  graphic style  "round
>rectangle" -- the technique fails -- or I am missing something.
>
>Can you try it there?
>
>tks
>
>
>On March 27, 2016 at 1:42:52 PM, Scott Rossi
>(scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:
>
>One way is using ink effects. In a group with the roundRect graphic
>layered above the image:
>blendSrcOver applied to the group
>blendDstIn applied to the graphic
>
>You might want to take a look at the stack provided in this article for
>ideas:
>http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2015/11/04/livecode-basics-masking-objects/
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi
>Creative Director
>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
>On 3/27/16, 3:26 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
>Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
>
>>Our design team finished a design for a mobile app. The used rounded
>>corners everywhere.
>>
>>see
>>
>>http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/radius-all-corners.jpg
>>
>>Something I wished we had in LC for all controls (groups included) is
>>corner radius, but is is only available for graphics objects.
>>
>>
>>set the roundRadius of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to pValue
>>
>>I'm digging in the forums for info an masks etc... but I'm out of my
>>depth here.
>>
>>I'm thinking this is probably (I hope) not that hard to implement.
>>
>>it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>>corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>>that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and give
>>the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do I get
>>the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded corners of
>>the background graphic?
>>
>>BR
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-livecode mailing list
>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 27 22:33:43 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 02:33:43 +0000
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <56F891AB.6040709@ahsoftware.net>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
	<7668D184-F536-4C30-9BBE-B7BFA145D95E@livecode.org>
	<etPan.56f6e035.6175300b.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<3D8FA438-9412-48FE-AF88-4D48EE103DA1@earthednet.org>
	<56F891AB.6040709@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f89806.63eacf72.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

I've been building GUI from ground zero today in LC8 dp16 and it's gets worse and worse the longer the session remains open. The inspector switch to "revFrontScriptLibrary" starts to occur more and more frequently.  Now I just opened the project browser and it is completely blank.

I'm having to save and restart quite frequently just to get work done... Currently working in test stacks because I don't want to corrupt a production stack while I work in this round radius corners problem.

I'm also getting some weird artifacting after setting inks on a group and dragging around over a stack with a black background... trails of the selection points (four corners) of objects are left rendered on the screen like little white rivers of small white squares.



On March 27, 2016 at 4:06:50 PM, Mark Wieder (mwieder at ahsoftware.net<mailto:mwieder at ahsoftware.net>) wrote:

On 03/27/2016 06:42 PM<http://airmail.calendar/2016-03-27%2018:42:00%20HST>, William Prothero wrote:
> I see similar behaviors in the IDE in DP16. It seems to forget which stack is in focus and does unexpected things.

I tried using the Project Browser yesterday<http://airmail.calendar/2016-03-26%2012:00:00%20HST>, and three times I deleted
the wrong object because I couldn't tell which one was actually
selected, and had to revert to backups because you can't undo that.

--
Mark Wieder
ahsoftware at gmail.com<mailto:ahsoftware at gmail.com>

From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Sun Mar 27 22:36:13 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:36:13 -0400
Subject: [OT] KickStarter - OLO 3d Printer
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXMPkJ-Sm3d-hmYzyX3qZFo-k04Up1e8x3gDHK5_X3BNqA@mail.gmail.com>

I've been 3D printing "the old fashioned way" (wow that was weird to say)
since I bought my filament-based 3D printer in December.  In fact, I'm
printing now!

My concern about using a smart phone, using its screen as the light source,
is that you don't have a phone anymore.  You know, to make and receive
calls, go onto Facebook, etc.

~Roger
On Mar 27, 2016 10:01 PM, "Kay C Lan" <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:

> For anyone interested in 3D printing, or just a runaway KickStarter
> campaign:
>
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/olo3d/olo-the-first-ever-smartphone-3d-printer
>
> Where will technology take us tomorrow?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From james at thehales.id.au  Sun Mar 27 22:11:35 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:11:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
Message-ID: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>

I current;y have an app for indexing ans searching ePub files. The focus of
the app being the ability to apply complex searches against the text of the
ePub.
That being said some ePubs have embedded images which my app can display in
situ.
At this time the on;y change I make is to ensure the image sits by itself
(i.e. There is Aline breaker both before and after the image.)
However images can be large.
Their height is of no real concern but their width is.
If their width is greater than the width of the field displaying the text
they are embedded within I need to allow horizontal scrolling. The image
could also end up being displayed in multiple text panes, something I really
want to avoid.
There has been some recent discussion about resizing images and so I thought
it was time to tackle this in my app.
When I read in an ePub I extract all resources and put the text into a
SQLite dub and the images into a separate folder.
My question is this.
What would make more sense, resize the actual image files to fit into the
desired text field without requiring scrolling or read in the existing files
and resize on the fly within LC.
The advantage of the first is that it only needs to be done once (unless the
user is constantly resizing the app).
The disadvantage is that the original image is lost. 
The advantage of the second is that nothing happens to the original image.
The disadvantage is that all the   links within the text would require
rewriting and each image would require processing each time it was needed.
After writing the above the first option looks better.

Anyway, can anyone give me a hint as to how to use LC to read in an image,
resize it and then write it out again?



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IMG-resize-advice-wanted-tp4702682.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From brahma at hindu.org  Sun Mar 27 23:00:32 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 03:00:32 +0000
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <D31DDF93.7DEB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f88e5d.295a10dd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DDF93.7DEB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f89e4f.5f0d56bd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Thanks for the re-assurance and, that's a relief, that its a simple solution...

Are you working in LC8 dp 16?

BUT: What's happening here is:  I'm getting some serious rendering issues. Your stack opens fine and I could see the lovely roundrect grc mask... then as soon as I touch anything we get this kind of behavior

http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/IDE-rendering-ssues.jpg

If I save the stack the whole effect is lost. Thinking this is a temporary rendering issue, I saved, quit and reboot LC

but then we get this:

http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/round-corner-after-save.jpg

And the group, inks etc. are all corrupted in the saved stack... at least here on my mac.

What version of LC are you working in?

I thought dp16 was stable enough to work in, and I want to pitch in on the beta testing so that LC team could get as much feedback on 16 as I could provide, but now I have to get real work done, so i think I need to step back from this bleeding edge... DP15 was actually pretty stable. What are you using?

Can anyone else test this please?  Open Scotts stack in LC8 DP16

go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/RoundCornerSample.livecode"

then set the selectGroupedControls to True, choose the selection tool and move the graphic mask around...does everything stay OK?  If the problem can be duplicated elsewhere... I will bug it....

actually I bugged it anyway

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17247

BR





On March 27, 2016 at 4:12:58 PM, Scott Rossi (scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:

An oval is the same as a roundRect, just with larger radii. The technique
doesn't "fail" as shown in the demo stack, so yes, you may indeed be
missing something. Make sure you have the inks applied properly.



Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 6:52 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
brahma at hindu.org> wrote:

>Scott, thanks stack downloaded
>
>Fascinating technique.
>
>But your example uses an oval... but if I use graphic style "round
>rectangle" -- the technique fails -- or I am missing something.
>
>Can you try it there?
>
>tks
>
>
>On March 27, 2016 at 1:42:52 PM, Scott Rossi
>(scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:
>
>One way is using ink effects. In a group with the roundRect graphic
>layered above the image:
>blendSrcOver applied to the group
>blendDstIn applied to the graphic
>
>You might want to take a look at the stack provided in this article for
>ideas:
>http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2015/11/04/livecode-basics-masking-objects/
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi
>Creative Director
>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
>On 3/27/16, 3:26 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
>Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
>
>>Our design team finished a design for a mobile app. The used rounded
>>corners everywhere.
>>
>>see
>>
>>http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/radius-all-corners.jpg
>>
>>Something I wished we had in LC for all controls (groups included) is
>>corner radius, but is is only available for graphics objects.
>>
>>
>>set the roundRadius of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to pValue
>>
>>I'm digging in the forums for info an masks etc... but I'm out of my
>>depth here.
>>
>>I'm thinking this is probably (I hope) not that hard to implement.
>>
>>it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>>corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>>that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and give
>>the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do I get
>>the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded corners of
>>the background graphic?
>>
>>BR
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-livecode mailing list
>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 27 23:10:55 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:10:55 -0500
Subject: (way OT, WAS: )Re: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSHqtfdSc7_hD4guDz8boca+-Pg_RkgXwfiCaKhuEyM60A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
	<CANQHZSFi75p8nfg8aSeSdHGO9Lv-B3Srwy8AUAZ80pL7sDbrCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F86E9B.3080109@tweedly.net>
	<CANQHZSHqtfdSc7_hD4guDz8boca+-Pg_RkgXwfiCaKhuEyM60A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F8A0BF.2030809@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/27/2016 6:59 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
> I've been out-crankied!

LOL. But actually I think the final score is three out of four, so you 
are still in the running. :)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Mar 27 23:15:56 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:15:56 -0700
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f89e4f.5f0d56bd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f88e5d.295a10dd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DDF93.7DEB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f89e4f.5f0d56bd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <D31DEDDA.7DEC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>

If you have acceleratedRendering enabled, try disabling it.

Regarding your second screenshot, you're likely getting that result
because you repositioned the graphic within the group.

LC8 might be more sensitive to acceleratedRendering than previous
versions, but enabling the property in general sometimes causes
idiosyncrasies that need to be worked around.  It's possible ink effects
won't work for your situation, so you may need to resort to other methods.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 8:00 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
brahma at hindu.org> wrote:

>Thanks for the re-assurance and, that's a relief, that its a simple
>solution...
>
>Are you working in LC8 dp 16?
>
>BUT: What's happening here is:  I'm getting some serious rendering
>issues. Your stack opens fine and I could see the lovely roundrect grc
>mask... then as soon as I touch anything we get this kind of behavior
>
>http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/IDE-rendering-ssues.jpg
>
>If I save the stack the whole effect is lost. Thinking this is a
>temporary rendering issue, I saved, quit and reboot LC
>
>but then we get this:
>
>http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/round-corner-after-save.jpg
>
>And the group, inks etc. are all corrupted in the saved stack... at least
>here on my mac.
>
>What version of LC are you working in?
>
>I thought dp16 was stable enough to work in, and I want to pitch in on
>the beta testing so that LC team could get as much feedback on 16 as I
>could provide, but now I have to get real work done, so i think I need to
>step back from this bleeding edge... DP15 was actually pretty stable.
>What are you using?
>
>Can anyone else test this please?  Open Scotts stack in LC8 DP16
>
>go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/RoundCornerSample.livecode"
>
>then set the selectGroupedControls to True, choose the selection tool and
>move the graphic mask around...does everything stay OK?  If the problem
>can be duplicated elsewhere... I will bug it....
>
>actually I bugged it anyway
>
>http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17247
>
>BR
>
>
>
>
>
>On March 27, 2016 at 4:12:58 PM, Scott Rossi
>(scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:
>
>An oval is the same as a roundRect, just with larger radii. The technique
>doesn't "fail" as shown in the demo stack, so yes, you may indeed be
>missing something. Make sure you have the inks applied properly.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi
>Creative Director
>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
>On 3/27/16, 6:52 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
>Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
>
>>Scott, thanks stack downloaded
>>
>>Fascinating technique.
>>
>>But your example uses an oval... but if I use graphic style "round
>>rectangle" -- the technique fails -- or I am missing something.
>>
>>Can you try it there?
>>
>>tks
>>
>>
>>On March 27, 2016 at 1:42:52 PM, Scott Rossi
>>(scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:
>>
>>One way is using ink effects. In a group with the roundRect graphic
>>layered above the image:
>>blendSrcOver applied to the group
>>blendDstIn applied to the graphic
>>
>>You might want to take a look at the stack provided in this article for
>>ideas:
>>http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2015/11/04/livecode-basics-masking-objects/
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Scott Rossi
>>Creative Director
>>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 3/27/16, 3:26 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
>>Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>>brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Our design team finished a design for a mobile app. The used rounded
>>>corners everywhere.
>>>
>>>see
>>>
>>>http://wiki.hindu.org/screenshots/radius-all-corners.jpg
>>>
>>>Something I wished we had in LC for all controls (groups included) is
>>>corner radius, but is is only available for graphics objects.
>>>
>>>
>>>set the roundRadius of grc "roundRectAngleButton" to pValue
>>>
>>>I'm digging in the forums for info an masks etc... but I'm out of my
>>>depth here.
>>>
>>>I'm thinking this is probably (I hope) not that hard to implement.
>>>
>>>it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>>>corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>>>that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and give
>>>the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do I get
>>>the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded corners of
>>>the background graphic?
>>>
>>>BR
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>use-livecode mailing list
>>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>subscription preferences:
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-livecode mailing list
>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-livecode mailing list
>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 23:21:15 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:21:15 +0800
Subject: [OT] KickStarter - OLO 3d Printer
In-Reply-To: <56F891FA.6000100@ahsoftware.net>
References: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F891FA.6000100@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kiNfUWd3A8WP4CVr-82dpYudbyOTf=mVcvXg3Amtt_Fzw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>
> I ordered mine in the first half-hour after it went live.
>
Well you could have shared that,... or did I miss the email. All the
cheap pledges have long since gone... although seriously, the price to
cool ratio is still way awesome and I think my CFO would have pledged
the same amount anyway :-)

And just think, someone's sure to come up with an update to the print
software so that when their's an incoming call it auto responds:
"Sorry Roger isn't able to answer the phone right now as his phone is
busy printing a 3D image of a Hungarian Horntail which he desperately
needs for his next D&D adventure". ;-)



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar 27 23:23:03 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:23:03 -0700
Subject: LC8 DP16
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f89806.63eacf72.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <3D5CB46D-1C7B-49E3-9B7B-550B4E6643F2@earthednet.org>
	<7668D184-F536-4C30-9BBE-B7BFA145D95E@livecode.org>
	<etPan.56f6e035.6175300b.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<3D8FA438-9412-48FE-AF88-4D48EE103DA1@earthednet.org>
	<56F891AB.6040709@ahsoftware.net>
	<etPan.56f89806.63eacf72.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56F8A397.80502@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/27/2016 07:33 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> I've been building GUI from ground zero today in LC8 dp16 and it's gets worse and worse the longer the session remains open. The inspector switch to "revFrontScriptLibrary" starts to occur more and more frequently.  Now I just opened the project browser and it is completely blank.
>
> I'm having to save and restart quite frequently just to get work done... Currently working in test stacks because I don't want to corrupt a production stack while I work in this round radius corners problem.

That seems to be the only way to get out of trouble. I only use LC8 for 
stacks I don't really care about, so when things crash I just go on to 
something else.

> I'm also getting some weird artifacting after setting inks on a group and dragging around over a stack with a black background... trails of the selection points (four corners) of objects are left rendered on the screen like little white rivers of small white squares.

Yeah, I just try to ignore the artifacts.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Mar 27 23:38:12 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:38:12 -0500
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56F8A724.9000503@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/27/2016 5:26 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> I'm thinking this is probably (I hope)  not that hard to implement.
>
> it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
> corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
> that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and
> give the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do
> I get the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded
> corners of the background graphic?
>

I could reproduce it this way:

Have your designer create the entire content of the image area, 
including the beige left-side label area, but without any text. Import 
the image.

Make a button the same dimensions as the image. Set the button 
properties to:

Showborder: false
Opaque: true
Backpattern: the ID of the image
Margins: 4,4,250,4
Textsize: 28
Label: set it in the msg box or script:
    set the label of btn x to "Three" &cr& "Line" &cr& "Label"

You can't type in a multi-line label in the inspector, but you can set 
one via script.

This gives you a regular button that you can attach a script to normally.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar 27 23:51:56 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:51:56 -0700
Subject: [OT] KickStarter - OLO 3d Printer
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kiNfUWd3A8WP4CVr-82dpYudbyOTf=mVcvXg3Amtt_Fzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F891FA.6000100@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+uh5kiNfUWd3A8WP4CVr-82dpYudbyOTf=mVcvXg3Amtt_Fzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F8AA5C.7060909@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/27/2016 08:21 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>>
>> I ordered mine in the first half-hour after it went live.
>>
> Well you could have shared that,... or did I miss the email. All the
> cheap pledges have long since gone... although seriously, the price to
> cool ratio is still way awesome and I think my CFO would have pledged
> the same amount anyway :-)

OLO sent out pre-announcement emails Saturday night to those of us who 
had expressed interest a while back. They were about 45 minutes late in 
bringing the KS page live, so I was busy reloading the page.

...and I completely missed the fact that there were a couple hundred $99 
dual printer sets being offered as an easter egg.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Mar 27 23:52:18 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:52:18 -0700
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <D31DF46A.7DF01%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Can you use referenced images and lock their widths to the width of your
field/s?

I believe others on the list have mentioned system-level tools that can be
used for image processing, but if you want to resize within LC, the
"traditional" method is to scale the image and set the imageData of the
resized image to itself.  Alternatively, you might be able to scale the
image and export a snapshot of the image to itself.

(And while we're at it, someone should really add the word "heidth" to the
English language because "height" doesn't really go with "width".)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 7:11 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of jameshale"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of james at thehales.id.au>
wrote:

>I current;y have an app for indexing ans searching ePub files. The focus
>of
>the app being the ability to apply complex searches against the text of
>the
>ePub.
>That being said some ePubs have embedded images which my app can display
>in
>situ.
>At this time the on;y change I make is to ensure the image sits by itself
>(i.e. There is Aline breaker both before and after the image.)
>However images can be large.
>Their height is of no real concern but their width is.
>If their width is greater than the width of the field displaying the text
>they are embedded within I need to allow horizontal scrolling. The image
>could also end up being displayed in multiple text panes, something I
>really
>want to avoid.
>There has been some recent discussion about resizing images and so I
>thought
>it was time to tackle this in my app.
>When I read in an ePub I extract all resources and put the text into a
>SQLite dub and the images into a separate folder.
>My question is this.
>What would make more sense, resize the actual image files to fit into the
>desired text field without requiring scrolling or read in the existing
>files
>and resize on the fly within LC.
>The advantage of the first is that it only needs to be done once (unless
>the
>user is constantly resizing the app).
>The disadvantage is that the original image is lost.
>The advantage of the second is that nothing happens to the original image.
>The disadvantage is that all the   links within the text would require
>rewriting and each image would require processing each time it was needed.
>After writing the above the first option looks better.
>
>Anyway, can anyone give me a hint as to how to use LC to read in an image,
>resize it and then write it out again?
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IMG-resize-advice-wanted-tp
>4702682.html
>Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Mar 27 23:57:49 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:57:49 -0700
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <D31DF46A.7DF01%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<D31DF46A.7DF01%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <56F8ABBD.5000709@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/27/2016 08:52 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> (And while we're at it, someone should really add the word "heidth" to the
> English language because "height" doesn't really go with "width".)

I've been told repeatedly to stay away from synonyms, so I'm staying far 
away from that <g>.

Besides, maybe we should just rename "width"... "height" goes just fine 
with "weight".

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 23:29:04 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:29:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <1459135744580-4702692.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi,

Could a bitmap mask (alphadata) work for this?

>From the archives 2008 and 2011, 
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2008-November/117324.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2011-December/165123.html

http://www.sanke.org/Software/MoreAboutMasks.zip

Back in the old days, I published this stack:
http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/alejandro/stacks/mask_bitmap02.zip



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702692.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Mar 28 00:03:59 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 21:03:59 -0700
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <56F8A724.9000503@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56F8A724.9000503@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <D31DF951.7DF27%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Jacque's backPattern idea is an option purely for masking images as well,
though you're more limited using that option.  The image and graphic need
to be the same height, and you need to have "extra" image on the left side
so you can crop off the rounded corners on the left.

The advantage of that option is you probably won't get any rendering
artifacts with acceleratedRendering enabled (no ink effects needed).  The
disadvantage is the image needs to be fit precisely to the masking
graphic, while in a group with ink effects, you have more flexibility in
placing/sizing the image.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 8:38 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

>On 3/27/2016 5:26 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking this is probably (I hope)  not that hard to implement.
>>
>> it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>> corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>> that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and
>> give the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do
>> I get the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded
>> corners of the background graphic?
>>
>
>I could reproduce it this way:
>
>Have your designer create the entire content of the image area,
>including the beige left-side label area, but without any text. Import
>the image.
>
>Make a button the same dimensions as the image. Set the button
>properties to:
>
>Showborder: false
>Opaque: true
>Backpattern: the ID of the image
>Margins: 4,4,250,4
>Textsize: 28
>Label: set it in the msg box or script:
>    set the label of btn x to "Three" &cr& "Line" &cr& "Label"
>
>You can't type in a multi-line label in the inspector, but you can set
>one via script.
>
>This gives you a regular button that you can attach a script to normally.
>
>-- 
>Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 00:06:36 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:06:36 +0800
Subject: [OT] KickStarter - OLO 3d Printer
In-Reply-To: <56F8AA5C.7060909@ahsoftware.net>
References: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F891FA.6000100@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+uh5kiNfUWd3A8WP4CVr-82dpYudbyOTf=mVcvXg3Amtt_Fzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F8AA5C.7060909@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kiaytOA=b8TDWp99kWar0RSQTNECxpb6oqdw4=+Lm3hYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> ...and I completely missed the fact that there were a couple hundred $99
> dual printer sets being offered as an easter egg.
>
Not only that, I've since read that as a lead up to the KickStarter
Solido3D ran a competition where the winners were going to get a OLO,
but in the end, with only 100 entrants, Pietro and Filippo decided to
give all 100 entrants an OLO!



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Mar 28 00:25:13 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 23:25:13 -0500
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <D31DF951.7DF27%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56F8A724.9000503@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D31DF951.7DF27%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <56F8B229.7000708@hyperactivesw.com>

My method doesn't use a graphic at all. The button itself just uses the 
image as a backpattern.

I'll leave my test stack here for a while:
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/ho56oaaaqjvbe26/RoundRect%20Button%20example.livecode?dl=0>

On 3/27/2016 11:03 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> Jacque's backPattern idea is an option purely for masking images as well,
> though you're more limited using that option.  The image and graphic need
> to be the same height, and you need to have "extra" image on the left side
> so you can crop off the rounded corners on the left.
>
> The advantage of that option is you probably won't get any rendering
> artifacts with acceleratedRendering enabled (no ink effects needed).  The
> disadvantage is the image needs to be fit precisely to the masking
> graphic, while in a group with ink effects, you have more flexibility in
> placing/sizing the image.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
> On 3/27/16, 8:38 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/27/2016 5:26 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>>
>>> I'm thinking this is probably (I hope)  not that hard to implement.
>>>
>>> it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>>> corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>>> that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and
>>> give the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do
>>> I get the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded
>>> corners of the background graphic?
>>>
>>
>> I could reproduce it this way:
>>
>> Have your designer create the entire content of the image area,
>> including the beige left-side label area, but without any text. Import
>> the image.
>>
>> Make a button the same dimensions as the image. Set the button
>> properties to:
>>
>> Showborder: false
>> Opaque: true
>> Backpattern: the ID of the image
>> Margins: 4,4,250,4
>> Textsize: 28
>> Label: set it in the msg box or script:
>>     set the label of btn x to "Three" &cr& "Line" &cr& "Label"
>>
>> You can't type in a multi-line label in the inspector, but you can set
>> one via script.
>>
>> This gives you a regular button that you can attach a script to normally.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Mar 28 00:27:26 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 21:27:26 -0700
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <56F8ABBD.5000709@ahsoftware.net>
References: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<D31DF46A.7DF01%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<56F8ABBD.5000709@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <D31E00B5.7DF64%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Weight a minute...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 8:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

>On 03/27/2016 08:52 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>> (And while we're at it, someone should really add the word "heidth" to
>>the
>> English language because "height" doesn't really go with "width".)
>
>I've been told repeatedly to stay away from synonyms, so I'm staying far
>away from that <g>.
>
>Besides, maybe we should just rename "width"... "height" goes just fine
>with "weight".
>
>-- 
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Mar 28 00:31:07 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 23:31:07 -0500
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <56F8B229.7000708@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56F8A724.9000503@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D31DF951.7DF27%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<56F8B229.7000708@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56F8B38B.7080906@hyperactivesw.com>

Addendum: I forgot to make the background around the image transparent. 
You'd need to do that.

On 3/27/2016 11:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> My method doesn't use a graphic at all. The button itself just uses the
> image as a backpattern.
>
> I'll leave my test stack here for a while:
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/ho56oaaaqjvbe26/RoundRect%20Button%20example.livecode?dl=0>
>
>
> On 3/27/2016 11:03 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>> Jacque's backPattern idea is an option purely for masking images as well,
>> though you're more limited using that option.  The image and graphic need
>> to be the same height, and you need to have "extra" image on the left
>> side
>> so you can crop off the rounded corners on the left.
>>
>> The advantage of that option is you probably won't get any rendering
>> artifacts with acceleratedRendering enabled (no ink effects needed).  The
>> disadvantage is the image needs to be fit precisely to the masking
>> graphic, while in a group with ink effects, you have more flexibility in
>> placing/sizing the image.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/27/16, 8:38 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay"
>> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>> jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/27/2016 5:26 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm thinking this is probably (I hope)  not that hard to implement.
>>>>
>>>> it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>>>> corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>>>> that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and
>>>> give the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do
>>>> I get the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded
>>>> corners of the background graphic?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I could reproduce it this way:
>>>
>>> Have your designer create the entire content of the image area,
>>> including the beige left-side label area, but without any text. Import
>>> the image.
>>>
>>> Make a button the same dimensions as the image. Set the button
>>> properties to:
>>>
>>> Showborder: false
>>> Opaque: true
>>> Backpattern: the ID of the image
>>> Margins: 4,4,250,4
>>> Textsize: 28
>>> Label: set it in the msg box or script:
>>>     set the label of btn x to "Three" &cr& "Line" &cr& "Label"
>>>
>>> You can't type in a multi-line label in the inspector, but you can set
>>> one via script.
>>>
>>> This gives you a regular button that you can attach a script to
>>> normally.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Mar 28 00:41:16 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 21:41:16 -0700
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <56F8B229.7000708@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56F8A724.9000503@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D31DF951.7DF27%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<56F8B229.7000708@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <D31E0107.7DF67%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Oh, I understand -- I'm just saying a graphic + backPattern may be a good
option because you have control over the shape (the roundRadius of the
corners be changed), the radius will auto-scale across different screen
sizes, and you don't have to pre-process all the images with rounded
corners.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/27/16, 9:25 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

>My method doesn't use a graphic at all. The button itself just uses the
>image as a backpattern.
>
>I'll leave my test stack here for a while:
><https://www.dropbox.com/s/ho56oaaaqjvbe26/RoundRect%20Button%20example.li
>vecode?dl=0>
>
>On 3/27/2016 11:03 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>> Jacque's backPattern idea is an option purely for masking images as
>>well,
>> though you're more limited using that option.  The image and graphic
>>need
>> to be the same height, and you need to have "extra" image on the left
>>side
>> so you can crop off the rounded corners on the left.
>>
>> The advantage of that option is you probably won't get any rendering
>> artifacts with acceleratedRendering enabled (no ink effects needed).
>>The
>> disadvantage is the image needs to be fit precisely to the masking
>> graphic, while in a group with ink effects, you have more flexibility in
>> placing/sizing the image.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/27/16, 8:38 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay"
>> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>> jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/27/2016 5:26 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm thinking this is probably (I hope)  not that hard to implement.
>>>>
>>>> it's obviously easy enough to create a background graphic with round
>>>> corners, add a small field on the left site that is transparent, lock
>>>> that, put an image on the right side, make this a small group and
>>>> give the name of a target and we have a nice cool "button" but how do
>>>> I get the image in the right half of the group to take the rounded
>>>> corners of the background graphic?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I could reproduce it this way:
>>>
>>> Have your designer create the entire content of the image area,
>>> including the beige left-side label area, but without any text. Import
>>> the image.
>>>
>>> Make a button the same dimensions as the image. Set the button
>>> properties to:
>>>
>>> Showborder: false
>>> Opaque: true
>>> Backpattern: the ID of the image
>>> Margins: 4,4,250,4
>>> Textsize: 28
>>> Label: set it in the msg box or script:
>>>     set the label of btn x to "Three" &cr& "Line" &cr& "Label"
>>>
>>> You can't type in a multi-line label in the inspector, but you can set
>>> one via script.
>>>
>>> This gives you a regular button that you can attach a script to
>>>normally.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>-- 
>Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From brahma at hindu.org  Mon Mar 28 02:49:13 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 06:49:13 +0000
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <D31DEDDA.7DEC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f88e5d.295a10dd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DDF93.7DEB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f89e4f.5f0d56bd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DEDDA.7DEC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f8d3e9.1842376c.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

The "mess" you saw in the screen shots was present immediately after

a) starting LC
b) downloading your stack
c) acclerated rendering is false for this stack
d) Mask looks perfect
d) choose pointer tool
e) start moving objects
f) inks are "wrecked" and artifacts appear on screen
g) masking effect is gone
h) save, close, quit restart
i) open the stack again.
j) the graphic and the group have the inks applied
g) no masking effect though




On March 27, 2016 at 5:16:41 PM, Scott Rossi (scott at tactilemedia.com<mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com>) wrote:

If you have acceleratedRendering enabled, try disabling it.

Regarding your second screenshot, you're likely getting that result
because you repositioned the graphic within the group.

LC8 might be more sensitive to acceleratedRendering than previous
versions, but enabling the property in general sometimes causes
idiosyncrasies that need to be worked around. It's possible ink effects
won't work for your situation, so you may need to resort to other methods.

From brahma at hindu.org  Mon Mar 28 03:00:50 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 07:00:50 +0000
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f8d3e9.1842376c.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f88e5d.295a10dd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DDF93.7DEB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f89e4f.5f0d56bd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DEDDA.7DEC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f8d3e9.1842376c.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f8d6a1.30d8c555.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

This all works but for one thing. For image processing I really, really don't want to have a requirement that the image be fully composed with the left area blank.  I just need to say

"Give me all your curated thumbs at 150h x 412w jpg quality 75, save each one with the name of the link you want it to serve under."


I had thought of the pattern option, because we did use it already in the Gurudeva app.

Our work flows would probably require us to use a full width image, then perhaps I can try setting that as a pattern then place a graphic on top of that and a field on top of that...

OR   (fingers crossed)

HQ will fix the mysterious bugs behind this problem.

more experiments tomorrow.








On March 27, 2016 at 8:49:13 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (brahma at hindu.org<mailto:brahma at hindu.org>) wrote:

I could reproduce it this way:

Have your designer create the entire content of the image area,
including the beige left-side label area, but without any text. Import
the image.

Make a button the same dimensions as the image. Set the button
properties to:

Showborder: false
Opaque: true
Backpattern: the ID of the image
Margins: 4,4,250,4
Textsize: 28
Label: set it in the msg box or script:
set the label of btn x to "Three" &cr& "Line" &cr& "Label"

You can't type in a multi-line label in the inspector, but you can set
one via script.

This gives you a regular button that you can attach a script to normally.

From brahma at hindu.org  Mon Mar 28 03:58:27 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 07:58:27 +0000
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f8d3e9.1842376c.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DBCCB.7DE71%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f88e5d.295a10dd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DDF93.7DEB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f89e4f.5f0d56bd.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<D31DEDDA.7DEC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<etPan.56f8d3e9.1842376c.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<etPan.56f8d3e9.1842376c.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f8e422.6e13bc49.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Duh! and Eureka at the same time

I got it to work!  I kept thinking, if it works for Scott, and his stack opens in LC8 and it appears correctly, there has to be something I'm missing... indeed there was. I went back to the mask option stack from Scott site, on card one there is the automobile in an oval.

I tried moving the graphic around. Ahha!  The missing part of the puzzle is simple

1) I have to ignore the artifacts/strange mess of selection handle squares being rendered in streams on the card...this is some anamolous behavior in the IDE that is completley unrelated to our quest. I was mixing them up in my head.

2) the graphic and the mask have to be precisely on top of each other. The clue that Scott said I had moved the graphic...  I had made the  wrong assumption that group ink was somehow going to pick up the background from the card, and mask everything outside the graphic mask that was still inside the group boundaries.. but that's not what is happening.  with BlendDisIn, it is the graphic mask that does that and.... all that it picks up from the background is some mysterious default dimension of pixels, like an exterior padding, of about 10 pixels all around the graphic. Outside that.. it is "pixel life as usual" and the background image appears thru on the outside of the graphic mask.

Ok solution simple: set the rect of grc "mask" to the rect of image "lizard"  and voila, it works...

save, close, quit, reopen, all is perfect.

programatically then we can just import the image, create graphic to the same rect, set locs to the same loc, field half size, set the left, insert the "label" group set the script.

Probably better to create the group as a kind of template, set it's loc to -1000,-1000 and then copy it over and over again to instantiate all these "buttons"

And... happy ending: you can layer a field between the background image and the mask on top, set it's left to the left of the others and it too has it's corners masked.

Case closed...Thanks for your patience!

On March 27, 2016 at 8:49:13 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (brahma at hindu.org<mailto:brahma at hindu.org>) wrote:

Regarding your second screenshot, you're likely getting that result
because you repositioned the graphic within the group.

From james at thehales.id.au  Mon Mar 28 03:52:23 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 00:52:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <D31DF46A.7DF01%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<D31DF46A.7DF01%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <1459151543969-4702702.post@n4.nabble.com>

Thanks Scott, I will ex-lore the snapshot option.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IMG-resize-advice-wanted-tp4702682p4702702.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From peter.brett at livecode.com  Mon Mar 28 05:54:51 2016
From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:54:51 +0100
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 26
Message-ID: <56F8FF6B.1020209@livecode.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

      Read issue #26 here: https://goo.gl/lNxZqg


This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project.  New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays.  We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.

                                       Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett <peter.brett at livecode.com>
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/



From bob at bobhall.net  Mon Mar 28 07:50:38 2016
From: bob at bobhall.net (Bob Hall)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 07:50:38 -0400
Subject: revIgniter installation
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82DpiLSA2okZh72CM-a3sYaHScv0MChD2G1QtRxo+49b22w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82DpiLSA2okZh72CM-a3sYaHScv0MChD2G1QtRxo+49b22w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A39ADD7E-44AF-4127-B30F-00CE1566A3ED@bobhall.net>

Before installing Revigniter, you have to confirm Livecode Server (LCS) is installed and working. To be honest, this can be more of a challenge than getting Revigniter installed. Don?t even move on to Revigniter until you know for a fact LCS is operational with the simple test.lc file from the Livecode Lessons (on livecode.com website).

There?s some configuration you need to do on your host to get LCS to work and a shared host can complicate matters a bit. I did run into an issue with one of my hosting providers where they had things very locked down and would not add to my account the ability for apache to send a .lc file to a cgi. So I dropped them and moved to another provider.

When I install Rev, I simply copy the revigniter .zip file up to my host and using cPanel?s filemanager, extract the original Rev archive directly to the server. Then I either rename the revigniter directory or move the contents to the location that I need them to be in.

If you?ve got LC server up and working and copy the Rev files to the server, I have great success getting the Rev Welcome page to show almost 100% of the time with no issues. Make sure you include the ?index.lc? in your URL when trying to access the server. There are additional steps you need to do hide the index.lc but to start, just include index.lc in all your server url?s and you mess a round a bit with some basic Livecode Server/Revigniter scripts.

-Bob


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon Mar 28 10:53:35 2016
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:53:35 -0400
Subject: Delete the first entry of an array.
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSFi75p8nfg8aSeSdHGO9Lv-B3Srwy8AUAZ80pL7sDbrCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2C46245C-5C3A-45D4-B903-CE2F645DD9E1@gmail.com>
	<56F4F0D3.9050700@livecode.com> <56F5C311.9050206@tweedly.net>
	<56F63BD3.3020001@livecode.com> <56F71E02.1030802@tweedly.net>
	<CANQHZSFi75p8nfg8aSeSdHGO9Lv-B3Srwy8AUAZ80pL7sDbrCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycP-+m4tAzE9X_BizK5UySzjMSt0szEK0BbTvma1Q6dY0A@mail.gmail.com>

don't make me go all LISP on you...or APL

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Dr. Hawkins <dochawk at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:
>
> > e, and hence be able to do completely dense arrays, just like Fortran
> etc.
> > (he said, making about 50 wild assumptions about a language he can't
> find a
> > spec for :-)
>
>
> Just to throw gas on the flames (petrol for you cross-atlantans) . . .
>
> Fortran can have sparse arrays, far larger than memory or disk storage . .
> .
>
>
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Mar 28 11:39:16 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 08:39:16 -0700
Subject: test
Message-ID: <56F95024.5010802@fourthworld.com>

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth, but I wrote here yesterday and never saw 
the message come through, so I rewrote that today and it still hasn't 
come through.  Now I'm just testing to see if anything comes through 
from my email addy at all here....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 12:29:16 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:29:16 +0300
Subject: What grabs yer baby?
Message-ID: <56F95BDC.8010500@gmail.com>

Well, this might [10 minutes of Lunch break nonsense]:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/acmtpv96jw9r094/MIRROR.livecode.zip?dl=0

Richmond.



From irog at mac.com  Mon Mar 28 12:44:19 2016
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 09:44:19 -0700
Subject: What grabs yer baby?
In-Reply-To: <56F95BDC.8010500@gmail.com>
References: <56F95BDC.8010500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1EA414D-A3E2-40EF-B067-BFA69C55D2BD@mac.com>

Fun! This triggers some ideas for my Boids stack. Thanks!


> On Mar 28, 2016, at 9:29 AM, RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, this might [10 minutes of Lunch break nonsense]:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/acmtpv96jw9r094/MIRROR.livecode.zip?dl=0
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 15:10:53 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 22:10:53 +0300
Subject: Richmond is on a roll.
Message-ID: <56F981BD.7020000@gmail.com>

Well, that, of course, is a matter of opinion:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/buvpf1h59lwahrz/WIPER.livecode.zip?dl=0

Richmond.



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Mon Mar 28 16:26:26 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 22:26:26 +0200
Subject: Richmond is on a roll.
In-Reply-To: <56F981BD.7020000@gmail.com>
References: <56F981BD.7020000@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880D15D7-4854-4976-A058-FD273079A0F7@me.com>

You sent me down a slippery slope here. I made some changes to the wipe version. If highlite of the Dissolve button is true, then it is a replication of the blend version you made. 

I should be grading some Norwegian tasks in preparation for tomorrow, but this is much more fun.

Tore

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oh3k09r6vqjaksd/WIPER%20with%20some%20changes.livecode?dl=0


> 28. mar. 2016 kl. 21.10 skrev RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com>:
> 
> Well, that, of course, is a matter of opinion:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/buvpf1h59lwahrz/WIPER.livecode.zip?dl=0
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From dochawk at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 16:29:36 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 13:29:36 -0700
Subject: [OT] KickStarter - OLO 3d Printer
In-Reply-To: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+uh5kg-_P0kLYE=dpLSptMgD1pDQh_Yd98rdbspSctuK7ihGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSFtSsN1CSs1fWEeL+hpgtH7jaHh8BG=qNszkbWcQTxoyg@mail.gmail.com>

Gee, will someone now have one base on that kid that printed his own braces?

-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon Mar 28 17:02:53 2016
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:02:53 -0400
Subject: iOS and Google GCM
In-Reply-To: <880D15D7-4854-4976-A058-FD273079A0F7@me.com>
References: <56F981BD.7020000@gmail.com>
	<880D15D7-4854-4976-A058-FD273079A0F7@me.com>
Message-ID: <005101d18935$32111f70$96335e50$@net>

While I was looking at the Android setup for push notifications I discovered
that the Google GCM supports both Android(via package name) AND iOS(via
Bundle ID). The iOS lessons(2014) and the Android(2013) lessons appear very
different on the server side. It would nice to use 1 server side codebase.
Does LC support Google GCM on iOS?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net




From pystcat at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 17:38:26 2016
From: pystcat at gmail.com (PystCat)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:38:26 -0400
Subject: Sage and Email problems..?
Message-ID: <02580B75-5BF5-4D1C-8E34-A9679CD73292@gmail.com>

Is it just me or is anyone else having a bit of a problem with email on the Sage server??

Thanks
Paul




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Mar 28 17:46:59 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 14:46:59 -0700
Subject: Sage and Email problems..?
In-Reply-To: <02580B75-5BF5-4D1C-8E34-A9679CD73292@gmail.com>
References: <02580B75-5BF5-4D1C-8E34-A9679CD73292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F9A653.7060103@fourthworld.com>

Paul wrote:
 > Is it just me or is anyone else having a bit of a problem with email
 > on the Sage server??

I don't know about Sage, but I've sent four posts to this list over the 
last 24 hours and so far only my test message (ironically enough) has 
gotten through.

Seems like some sort of server trouble to me, though in all fairness the 
two issues may be unrelated.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From brahma at hindu.org  Mon Mar 28 21:54:13 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 01:54:13 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
Message-ID: <etPan.56f9e043.28f25056.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Yay! my GUI designs are in from the eye candy team so we can start cooking.

I'm looking closely at script only stacks.

Mark's blog was simple enough "They are just text files."

I've installed Atom here.

 Can you check/amend my assumptions here? Of course I can test this myself, but if others are already doing this kind of architecture you may have caveats to share?

Atom:
-  Create a project pointing to a folder  with your current app assets
- place this under GIT control

-- A "main" stack with a preopenstack handler like this

on preopenstack
 start using "animationEngine" # assume binary substack imported
 Start using # any other binary helper stacks
 start using "myAppCoreFunctions.livecodescript" # script only stack
 start using "mAppPuzzleGames.livecodescript" # script only stack
# etc.
end preopenstack

-- with almost no code in the stack stack script at all.
-- in the project browser we will see the script only stacks
-- we can edit the script only stacks in the script editor set break points use the "console"  (put to msg box)
-- when we hit "apply" in the script editor the scripts are saved back out to the text files
-- OR the modified scripts of the script only stacks are in RAM until you save the main stack?
-- Buttons and top level messages go through and hit the functions/commands loaded in the script

In Atom or from command line, you then make your commits to the repository.

Seems simple enough...Anything I am missing? additions or amendments.

Meanwhile I'm going to "go for it" and see how it goes.



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 22:01:34 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:01:34 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f9e043.28f25056.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f9e043.28f25056.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>

Monte got annoyed that I did something like that instead of setting
behaviors. So it might be better to write behaviors in script-only stacks
and then set them onto the various controls, rather than managing the
controls all the way from the library stack(s).
On Mar 28, 2016 18:54, "Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami" <brahma at hindu.org>
wrote:

> Yay! my GUI designs are in from the eye candy team so we can start cooking.
>
> I'm looking closely at script only stacks.
>
> Mark's blog was simple enough "They are just text files."
>
> I've installed Atom here.
>
>  Can you check/amend my assumptions here? Of course I can test this
> myself, but if others are already doing this kind of architecture you may
> have caveats to share?
>
> Atom:
> -  Create a project pointing to a folder  with your current app assets
> - place this under GIT control
>
> -- A "main" stack with a preopenstack handler like this
>
> on preopenstack
>  start using "animationEngine" # assume binary substack imported
>  Start using # any other binary helper stacks
>  start using "myAppCoreFunctions.livecodescript" # script only stack
>  start using "mAppPuzzleGames.livecodescript" # script only stack
> # etc.
> end preopenstack
>
> -- with almost no code in the stack stack script at all.
> -- in the project browser we will see the script only stacks
> -- we can edit the script only stacks in the script editor set break
> points use the "console"  (put to msg box)
> -- when we hit "apply" in the script editor the scripts are saved back out
> to the text files
> -- OR the modified scripts of the script only stacks are in RAM until you
> save the main stack?
> -- Buttons and top level messages go through and hit the
> functions/commands loaded in the script
>
> In Atom or from command line, you then make your commits to the repository.
>
> Seems simple enough...Anything I am missing? additions or amendments.
>
> Meanwhile I'm going to "go for it" and see how it goes.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Mar 28 23:46:47 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 20:46:47 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F9FAA7.7040104@fourthworld.com>

Matt Maier wrote:

 > Monte got annoyed that I did something like that instead of setting
 > behaviors. So it might be better to write behaviors in script-only
 > stacks and then set them onto the various controls, rather than
 > managing the controls all the way from the library stack(s).

Behaviors are good.  And so are libraries.  They're not mutually exclusive.

"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com        http://www.FourthWorld.com




From monte at appisle.net  Mon Mar 28 23:55:10 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 14:55:10 +1100
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56F9FAA7.7040104@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F9FAA7.7040104@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8E195D92-0C9C-4EA4-962A-E3301383D222@appisle.net>

Yes, it was the mix of code that should have an object scope and code that was fine to have a application wide scope that I was commenting on Matt.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Mar 2016, at 2:46 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Matt Maier wrote:
> 
> > Monte got annoyed that I did something like that instead of setting
> > behaviors. So it might be better to write behaviors in script-only
> > stacks and then set them onto the various controls, rather than
> > managing the controls all the way from the library stack(s).
> 
> Behaviors are good.  And so are libraries.  They're not mutually exclusive.
> 
> "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
> ____________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com        http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From brahma at hindu.org  Mon Mar 28 23:56:50 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 03:56:50 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <etPan.56f9e043.28f25056.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56f9fd02.7f1590d5.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

?
On March 28, 2016 at 4:01:47 PM, Matt Maier (blueback09 at gmail.com(mailto:blueback09 at gmail.com)) wrote:
> Monte got annoyed that I did something like that instead of setting  
> behaviors. So it might be better to write behaviors in script-only stacks  
> and then set them onto the various controls, rather than managing the  
> controls all the way from the library stack(s).  


I'm clearly out of my depth.
.. and not even sure I "grok" the difference

GUI --> Button "Start"-->  

on mouse
initiateGameSequence?
#being a command in a script only stack/library
end mouse

What is the "behavior" way of doing it? and why is it better?

BR


From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar 29 00:00:17 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 04:00:17 +0000
Subject: Border color of graphic
Message-ID: <etPan.56f9fdd1.32bfb1fa.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

I'm almost embarrassed to ask:

How do we set border color for a graphic object (round rectangle style) never used them much in the past, now I'm all about graphic UI.

We have the line width, but I don't see border in the colors for a graphic in the inspector of LC8 DP16

?


From paul at livecode.org  Tue Mar 29 01:06:59 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (paul at livecode.org)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 22:06:59 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f9fdd1.32bfb1fa.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f9fdd1.32bfb1fa.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>

For a graphic object:

foregroundColor (forecolor) = border colour
backgroundColor (backColor) = fill colour

I?m guessing you have the preference setting ?Property Labels Are:? set to ?Name of LiveCode Property.

You should see a tooltip showing the alternative ?Description of option' if you hover over the names in the inspector.

Hope that makes sense. 

Paul

> On Mar 28, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> I'm almost embarrassed to ask:
> 
> How do we set border color for a graphic object (round rectangle style) never used them much in the past, now I'm all about graphic UI.
> 
> We have the line width, but I don't see border in the colors for a graphic in the inspector of LC8 DP16
> 
> ?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From dunbarx at aol.com  Tue Mar 29 01:08:06 2016
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 01:08:06 -0400
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f9fdd1.32bfb1fa.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f9fdd1.32bfb1fa.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <153c0c59163-109a-9d63@webprd-m50.mail.aol.com>

Hi.


Go to the colors and patterns pane. Then you will find "text/Border".
What this does is set the "borderColor"


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org>
To: How LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 29, 2016 12:01 am
Subject: Border color of graphic

I'm almost embarrassed to ask:

How do we set border color for a graphic object (round rectangle style) never used them much in the past, now I'm all about graphic UI.

We have the line width, but I don't see border in the colors for a graphic in the inspector of LC8 DP16

?

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 01:13:55 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 22:13:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi All,

By trial and error, (the worse kind of error)
I finally find a script that mask an image using 
a vector graphic. Follow these steps to make
it work.

1)  create a new stack and import an image

2) over this image, draw a closed vector graphic
using any drawing tool (including freehand
or freehand polygon)

3) in this same stack, (that only have two objects:
an image and a single vector graphic)
create a button and set the script of this button
to this:

on mouseUp

    set the locklocation of img 1 to true
   import snapshot from img 1
   set the loc of img 2 to the loc of img 1
   delete img 1
   -- after deleting img 1, img 2 becomes img 1 
  
   crop img 1 to the rect of grc 1
   
   set the opaque of grc 1 to true
   set the foregroundColor of grc 1 to black
   set the linesize of grc 1 to 0
   set the ink of grc 1 to srcCopy
   set the width of grc 1 to the width of img 1
   set the height of grc 1 to the height of img 1
   
   import snapshot from grc 1 -- this snapshot created image 2

   set the alphadata of image 1 to the alphadata of image 2
   
   delete grc 1 -- vector graphic 
   delete img 2 -- image 
end mouseUp

Works fine here, but could be enhanced
in many ways, for example:

Who wants to extend this script to mask
images using the alphadata from
transparent png and static transparent 
gif images?

Thanks in advance!

Alejandro




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702723.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Tue Mar 29 04:31:36 2016
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:31:36 +0100
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <3D1F2E9E-B0C4-4C0B-8DC3-3BBD3163CC55@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
	<D31851B4.7DAB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<60510D70-6A1E-4125-8563-B31505067060@gmail.com>
	<3D1F2E9E-B0C4-4C0B-8DC3-3BBD3163CC55@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56FA3D68.6030002@cogapp.com>

FWIW, this really isn't a LiveCode issue.  Back when we were doing a lot of 
iOS app development, submission - which should have been a matter of pressing 
a few buttons - invariably took many hours of hair tearing - and this in spite 
of the fact that we were making new submissions virtually every week; solving 
the problems one week didn't stop us having another load of problems the next 
week.

When doing development (as opposed to submission) my practise now when I get a 
problem in LiveCode is to spend almost no time trying to fix it in LC; instead 
jump immediately to a dummy app on Xcode, and make sure I can deploy that 
first; mostly I find the same problem there, so can debug it with one less 
step in the chain, and when I have that working, go back to LC.

And yes, I long for a hand-holding guide, but I think the problems keep changing.

My 2p

Ben

On 23/03/2016 22:14, William Prothero wrote:
> Last post on this subject:
> I also got it working by changing my provisioning profile to include both iPad and iPhone. Previously I had only checked the iPhone option. But, I guess I must have entered a device description for my iPad too. Hmmmm? what an obtuse system.
> Bill
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:23 PM, William Prothero <waprothero at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Folks:
>> Ok, what I got working was a profile that was named ?iOS Team Provisioning Profile?. There was a wildcard version, and a version with my app IDattached. Both worked. The specific profiles I created for the app itself gave 
the error.
>>
>> Since this is an app that I will only use myself, on my iPhone, that?s good enough.
>>
>> I?ll go back and carefully check your suggestions, though Scott. At present, I need some lunch. Been staring at the screen too long.
>>
>> Best,
>> Bill
>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This might be a naming issue.  In standalone settings, make sure that the
>>> last item in the entry for Internal App ID matches the app name you set up
>>> in your provisioning profile in Apple's developer portal.  The Internal
>>> App ID should look like this:
>>>
>>> com.<yourdomain>.<yourappid>
>>>
>>> <yourappid> is the part that needs to match whatever you set up in the
>>> portal.
>>>
>>> Also make sure that you have the correct item selected in the  Profile
>>> pulldown.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Scott Rossi
>>> Creative Director
>>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/23/16, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
>>> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>>> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks:
>>>> I?m stuck.  I keep getting the error message:
>>>>
>>>> "The entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>>> profile. (0xE8008016)."
>>>>
>>>> Folks:
>>>>
>>>> So: Is this a problem with the certificate, or with the options I select
>>>> on the iOS settings in Livecode?
>>>> It sounds like it is complaining about the code signing certificate. I
>>>> have checked, downloaded, tried, to no avail.
>>>>
>>>> I?m stuck. Any comments or direction would  be MUCH appreciated. One
>>>> problem for me is the jargon that Apple uses doesn?t match up well with
>>>> the Livecode jargon, so it?s very difficult to tell where to go to figure
>>>> out what?s going on. Not to mention that the Apple documentation doesn?t
>>>> always match up with xcode screen.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:44 PM, William Prothero
>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the
>>>>> following message from XCode:
>>>>>
>>>>> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>>>> profile. (0xE8008016).?
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic
>>>>> information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message
>>>>> above from XCode doesn?t give much help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graham,
>>>>>> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my
>>>>>> developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was
>>>>>> after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that
>>>>>> it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't
>>>>>> at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a
>>>>>> new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had
>>>>>> to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match
>>>>>> with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is
>>>>>> multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings.
>>>>>> Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one
>>>>>> and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer
>>>>>> website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that
>>>>>> will come.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody
>>>>>> decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what
>>>>>> newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS
>>>>>> occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them
>>>>>> somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>> William Prothero
>>>>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Care to write it up, William?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to
>>>>>>> deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane
>>>>>>> rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have
>>>>>>> been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s
>>>>>>> just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of
>>>>>>> the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from
>>>>>>> having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it,
>>>>>>> a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of
>>>>>>> progress.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my two eurocents
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the
>>>>>>>>> certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with
>>>>>>>>> lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old
>>>>>>>>> provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and
>>>>>>>>> transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings,
>>>>>>>>> certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or
>>>>>>>>> perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to
>>>>>>>>> help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to
>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of
>>>>>>>>> hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS
>>>>>>>>> apps for awhile.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>>>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS
>>>>>>>>>> profile.?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the
>>>>>>>>>> bundle  of the provisioning profile to
>>>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
>>>>>>>>>> setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>>>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there
>>>>>>>>>> was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would
>>>>>>>>>> make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things
>>>>>>>>>> one could do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 05:04:07 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:04:07 +0300
Subject: Richmond is on a roll.
In-Reply-To: <880D15D7-4854-4976-A058-FD273079A0F7@me.com>
References: <56F981BD.7020000@gmail.com>
	<880D15D7-4854-4976-A058-FD273079A0F7@me.com>
Message-ID: <56FA4507.9080809@gmail.com>

Super: I now have to think of a suitable riposte!

Watch this space.

Richmond.

On 28.03.2016 23:26, Tore Nilsen wrote:
> You sent me down a slippery slope here. I made some changes to the wipe version. If highlite of the Dissolve button is true, then it is a replication of the blend version you made.
>
> I should be grading some Norwegian tasks in preparation for tomorrow, but this is much more fun.
>
> Tore
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oh3k09r6vqjaksd/WIPER%20with%20some%20changes.livecode?dl=0
>
>
>> 28. mar. 2016 kl. 21.10 skrev RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Well, that, of course, is a matter of opinion:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/buvpf1h59lwahrz/WIPER.livecode.zip?dl=0
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 05:48:33 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:48:33 +0300
Subject: Richmond is on a roll.
In-Reply-To: <880D15D7-4854-4976-A058-FD273079A0F7@me.com>
References: <56F981BD.7020000@gmail.com>
	<880D15D7-4854-4976-A058-FD273079A0F7@me.com>
Message-ID: <56FA4F71.8070805@gmail.com>

Here's my riposte:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/250eobb871sq04c/WIPER2.livecode.zip?dl=0

This uses a black and white image inside a group to overlay a colour image
and produce the optical effects.

I don't know what made me think of using an image inside a textField; 
but, with hindsight
it seems a bit daft.

Richmond.

On 28.03.2016 23:26, Tore Nilsen wrote:
> You sent me down a slippery slope here. I made some changes to the wipe version. If highlite of the Dissolve button is true, then it is a replication of the blend version you made.
>
> I should be grading some Norwegian tasks in preparation for tomorrow, but this is much more fun.
>
> Tore
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oh3k09r6vqjaksd/WIPER%20with%20some%20changes.livecode?dl=0
>
>
>> 28. mar. 2016 kl. 21.10 skrev RM <richmondmathewson at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Well, that, of course, is a matter of opinion:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/buvpf1h59lwahrz/WIPER.livecode.zip?dl=0
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 29 11:44:09 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 08:44:09 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Re: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
In-Reply-To: <56F95850.8030601@fourthworld.com>
References: <56F95850.8030601@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56FAA2C9.2050209@fourthworld.com>

Pierre Sahores wrote:

> If your lcHTTPd standalone is a TCP sockets server, the low TOP load
> (less than 25%) is not surprising at all and can even go lots less in
> using nginx instead of apache...

Yes, the benefits of using NginX as the broker instead of Apache are 
well documented in these articles on achieving high concurrency counts 
on cheap VPSes (see note on funky url formats below):
   http COLON SLASH SLASH 
markmaunder.com/2009/12/01/how-to-handle-1000s-of-concurrent-users-on-a-360mb-vps/
   http COLON SLASH SLASH 
reviewsignal.com/blog/2014/06/25/40-million-hits-a-day-on-wordpress-using-a-10-vps/

But my test setup was a bit weirder: lcHTTPd doesn't use Apache at at all.

The only thing handling the transactions is that one humble 
single-threaded LC standalone process.

Once moved behind a reverse proxy such a tool could easily handle very 
high loads, using the LC engine we know and love today.

Coupled with something like Andre's revSpark library for easily crafting 
RESTful APIs revised for an always-on process like lcHTTPd, the range of 
scalable, performant ad hoc microservices solutions that could be 
deployed ultra-rapidly with LiveCode is nearly endless.

Message-based server architectures are all the rage lately, and when we 
take full advantage of callbacks for network I/O we LiveCoders find 
we've had the opportunity to enjoy them all along.

Did you see Charles Warwick's post last June about a Docker container 
for LC Server?:
http COLON SLASH SLASH 
lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-July/216882.html

I can imagine a Docker container, and perhaps a Juju charm for Ubuntu 
Server and even a Snap for the newer Ubuntu Core, set up to deploy a 
complete LiveCode microservices solution in one line....

Ah, if only I had more time for such things.  The funny part is that I'm 
discovering we have solutions for far larger server loads than any 
project I'm currently working on actually needs. :)


PS - Note on funky URL formats:  This is my fifth attempt to send this 
email to the list.  In trying to discern why some of my emails come 
through while others don't, it occurred to me that only those with URLs 
in them were blocked from posting.  Since no bounce message was received 
and I haven't yet heard back from support I can only guess how I need to 
post here now while this seeming email filter problem gets sorted out, 
so please forgive the funky URL format and if my other emails eventually 
come through please forgive the redundancy.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com





From dave at applicationinsight.com  Tue Mar 29 11:26:05 2016
From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 08:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <1459265165899-4702728.post@n4.nabble.com>

Glad you got things sorted William

For those who find they are accumulating more and more old copies of
provisioning profiles on their local drive (which can lead to error
messages) and can't find a way of deleting them - they are located here: 
"/Users/<username>/Library/MobileDevice/Provisioning Profiles"

Dave



-----
"The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time."
Peter M. Brigham 
--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/iOS-deployment-question-tp4702516p4702728.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mark at canelasoftware.com  Tue Mar 29 12:06:54 2016
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:06:54 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <1459265165899-4702728.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
	<1459265165899-4702728.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <8A274026-FFB7-4A23-BACE-0DFFD122E2CB@canelasoftware.com>

On Mar 29, 2016, at 8:26 AM, Dave Kilroy <dave at applicationinsight.com> wrote:
> 
> Glad you got things sorted William
> 
> For those who find they are accumulating more and more old copies of
> provisioning profiles on their local drive (which can lead to error
> messages) and can't find a way of deleting them - they are located here: 
> "/Users/<username>/Library/MobileDevice/Provisioning Profiles?
> 

I have found that xCode 6.2 is the best version around for truly deleting those from within xCode itself. I had a lot of trouble with xCode 7.2 and its account management system. I am find that keeping the last 4 revisions of xCode is useful. Hope this helps someone. 


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io <http://www.livecloud.io/>
canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>





From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 29 12:18:16 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:18:16 -0700
Subject: iOS deployment question
In-Reply-To: <56FA3D68.6030002@cogapp.com>
References: <F87C1B54-264C-4C30-9A53-779DF017E206@earthednet.org>
	<D800398C-901C-45D2-92D9-9C02437CCB85@earthednet.org>
	<D65322B0-5278-4D27-92A6-449F02775578@earthednet.org>
	<6DC84432-30B6-4852-BB53-F1FB9296718C@mac.com>
	<FF0039CA-A017-44FD-B48E-3B7B95D938E9@earthednet.org>
	<60594242-1224-444C-A897-CBA231512255@earthednet.org>
	<431B50A4-6C0E-4D5B-8249-B97EA9549D24@earthednet.org>
	<D31851B4.7DAB3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<60510D70-6A1E-4125-8563-B31505067060@gmail.com>
	<3D1F2E9E-B0C4-4C0B-8DC3-3BBD3163CC55@earthednet.org>
	<56FA3D68.6030002@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <99B306E0-1019-491E-8A57-CDB54C5D5CE3@earthednet.org>

Ben:
This sounds reasonable. Then I don?t have to translate the terms from Xcode terminology to Livecode terminology.
Best,
Bill

> On Mar 29, 2016, at 1:31 AM, Ben Rubinstein <benr_mc at cogapp.com> wrote:
> 
> FWIW, this really isn't a LiveCode issue.  Back when we were doing a lot of iOS app development, submission - which should have been a matter of pressing a few buttons - invariably took many hours of hair tearing - and this in spite of the fact that we were making new submissions virtually every week; solving the problems one week didn't stop us having another load of problems the next week.
> 
> When doing development (as opposed to submission) my practise now when I get a problem in LiveCode is to spend almost no time trying to fix it in LC; instead jump immediately to a dummy app on Xcode, and make sure I can deploy that first; mostly I find the same problem there, so can debug it with one less step in the chain, and when I have that working, go back to LC.
> 
> And yes, I long for a hand-holding guide, but I think the problems keep changing.
> 
> My 2p
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 23/03/2016 22:14, William Prothero wrote:
>> Last post on this subject:
>> I also got it working by changing my provisioning profile to include both iPad and iPhone. Previously I had only checked the iPhone option. But, I guess I must have entered a device description for my iPad too. Hmmmm? what an obtuse system.
>> Bill
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:23 PM, William Prothero <waprothero at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Folks:
>>> Ok, what I got working was a profile that was named ?iOS Team Provisioning Profile?. There was a wildcard version, and a version with my app IDattached. Both worked. The specific profiles I created for the app itself gave 
> the error.
>>> 
>>> Since this is an app that I will only use myself, on my iPhone, that?s good enough.
>>> 
>>> I?ll go back and carefully check your suggestions, though Scott. At present, I need some lunch. Been staring at the screen too long.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> This might be a naming issue.  In standalone settings, make sure that the
>>>> last item in the entry for Internal App ID matches the app name you set up
>>>> in your provisioning profile in Apple's developer portal.  The Internal
>>>> App ID should look like this:
>>>> 
>>>> com.<yourdomain>.<yourappid>
>>>> 
>>>> <yourappid> is the part that needs to match whatever you set up in the
>>>> portal.
>>>> 
>>>> Also make sure that you have the correct item selected in the  Profile
>>>> pulldown.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>> Creative Director
>>>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/23/16, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero"
>>>> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>>>> prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Folks:
>>>>> I?m stuck.  I keep getting the error message:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>>>> profile. (0xE8008016)."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Folks:
>>>>> 
>>>>> So: Is this a problem with the certificate, or with the options I select
>>>>> on the iOS settings in Livecode?
>>>>> It sounds like it is complaining about the code signing certificate. I
>>>>> have checked, downloaded, tried, to no avail.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?m stuck. Any comments or direction would  be MUCH appreciated. One
>>>>> problem for me is the jargon that Apple uses doesn?t match up well with
>>>>> the Livecode jargon, so it?s very difficult to tell where to go to figure
>>>>> out what?s going on. Not to mention that the Apple documentation doesn?t
>>>>> always match up with xcode screen.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:44 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?m wondering if there is a way to smooth out this error for the user.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When I try to load my app onto my iPhone for testing, I get the
>>>>>> following message from XCode:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> T"he entitlements specified in your application?s Code Signing
>>>>>> Entitlements file do not match those specified in your provisioning
>>>>>> profile. (0xE8008016).?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?m wondering if there is a way for Livecode to provide more diagnostic
>>>>>> information about the validity of the provisioning profile. The message
>>>>>> above from XCode doesn?t give much help.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Earthednet-wp <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Graham,
>>>>>>> I can take some notes. What I did to fix it was to delete all my
>>>>>>> developer certificates from my keychain and re-activate them. That was
>>>>>>> after I realized that the reference to "identity" actually meant that
>>>>>>> it couldn't find a valid certificate. Now it seems obvious, but didn't
>>>>>>> at first. I remember some postings a while back re the need to get a
>>>>>>> new certificate. In the process, I mucked up my entire keychain and had
>>>>>>> to recover it using the wonderful "Time Machine".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now I'm fiddling with the provisioning profile to make its setup match
>>>>>>> with the standalone settings for iOS. One thing I see as I fiddle, is
>>>>>>> multiple provisioning profile in the drop down menu on iOS settings.
>>>>>>> Each new change and download on the Apple dev site creates a new one
>>>>>>> and the name doesn't change unless I do in in the apple developer
>>>>>>> website. Haven't figured out a way to delete old ones yet, but that
>>>>>>> will come.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm just giving these details of my thought so that if somebody
>>>>>>> decides to write up this, with all it's messiness, they might see what
>>>>>>> newbies go thru. I'm not a newby anymore, but I only work with iOS
>>>>>>> occasionally and the process seems to always be painful.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'll take some notes and if they seem relevant, I'll post them
>>>>>>> somewhere.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> William Prothero
>>>>>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Care to write it up, William?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> AFAICS, coding in LiveCode is a trouble-free activity compared to
>>>>>>>> deployment on iOS (or indeed on LiveCode Server, Android etc). Arcane
>>>>>>>> rules, certificates, permissions? even the vocabulary seems to have
>>>>>>>> been re-invented to confuse the honest programmer. Of course, that?s
>>>>>>>> just my view, and I am not young. Still, it seems to me that one of
>>>>>>>> the biggest challenges for LiveCode is to make the whole process, from
>>>>>>>> having the idea for the app all the way to successfully publishing it,
>>>>>>>> a journey with no u-turns, dead ends, or deep frustration at lack of
>>>>>>>> progress.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just my two eurocents
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 04:34, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Never mind?? Got it to work.
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:17 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I can see, after Googling around a bit, that getting the
>>>>>>>>>> certificates signed and set up correctly is quite complicated, with
>>>>>>>>>> lots of ways of going wrong. With out-dated certificates, old
>>>>>>>>>> provisioning profiles, etc.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to make this more robust and
>>>>>>>>>> transparent. Like some app that will go through the settings,
>>>>>>>>>> certificates, and provisioning profiles and give a diagnostic. Or
>>>>>>>>>> perhaps, could the Livecode diagnostics give more information to
>>>>>>>>>> help figure out what?s going wrong? This seems like a real need to
>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it?s too much to hope for. It takes me a day or two of
>>>>>>>>>> hair-pulling to get this set up after being away from making iOS
>>>>>>>>>> apps for awhile.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, William Prothero
>>>>>>>>>>> <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I?m getting an error when I try to build an iOS standalone. It is:
>>>>>>>>>>> ?Could not find a valid identity to use with the selected iOS
>>>>>>>>>>> profile.?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Where should I look? I?ve downloaded a certificate and set the
>>>>>>>>>>> bundle  of the provisioning profile to
>>>>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective, and it shows up in the Profile
>>>>>>>>>>> setting, and I set the internal App ID to
>>>>>>>>>>> org.earthednet.wWaterDetective.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I?m in LC 8 DP 16, using Xcode 6.2.1.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Very frustrating. It would be really wonderful if, sometime, there
>>>>>>>>>>> was a list of possible complaints the standalone builder would
>>>>>>>>>>> make, with possible solutions, or at least some diagnostic things
>>>>>>>>>>> one could do.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> William Prothero, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>>>>> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
>>>>>>>>>>> prothero at earthednet.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 13:35:27 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 20:35:27 +0300
Subject: Captain Oveur
Message-ID: <56FABCDF.2020304@gmail.com>

Or: "Airplane 3".

Well, not quite, but it does demonstrate how one can do a "mouseDown" in 
one control
and then, with the mouse key still depressed wander over to another 
control and get
feedback that one has done that.

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26905

Richmond.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 29 15:09:52 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:09:52 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>

Paul wrote:

 >> On Mar 28, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
 >>
 >> How do we set border color for a graphic object (round rectangle
 >> style) never used them much in the past, now I'm all about graphic
 >> UI.
 >>
 >> We have the line width, but I don't see border in the colors for
 >> a graphic in the inspector of LC8 DP16
 >
 > For a graphic object:
 >
 > foregroundColor (forecolor) = border colour
 > backgroundColor (backColor) = fill colour

You can also use the firstColor and secondColor synonyms, respectively, 
and for the first one you can even use thumbColor, because synonyms are 
great except when they're not. ;)


 > I?m guessing you have the preference setting ?Property Labels Are:?
 > set to ?Name of LiveCode Property.

Why doesn't a tool for an English-like language display its native 
English-like property names by default?

Making that change is the first thing I encourage newcomers to do so 
they can learn faster, getting reinforcement of property names every 
time they use the Inspector.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From sc at sahores-conseil.com  Tue Mar 29 15:11:10 2016
From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:11:10 +0200
Subject: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
In-Reply-To: <56FAA2C9.2050209@fourthworld.com>
References: <56F95850.8030601@fourthworld.com>
	<56FAA2C9.2050209@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8EDCD644-FDAB-4D1D-AF95-18157F4FF88B@sahores-conseil.com>

Hello Richard,

> Le 29 mars 2016 ? 17:44, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> a ?crit :
> 
> Pierre Sahores wrote:
> 
>> If your lcHTTPd standalone is a TCP sockets server, the low TOP load
>> (less than 25%) is not surprising at all and can even go lots less in
>> using nginx instead of apache...
> 
> Yes, the benefits of using NginX as the broker instead of Apache are well documented in these articles on achieving high concurrency counts on cheap VPSes (see note on funky url formats below):
>  http COLON SLASH SLASH markmaunder.com/2009/12/01/how-to-handle-1000s-of-concurrent-users-on-a-360mb-vps/
>  http COLON SLASH SLASH reviewsignal.com/blog/2014/06/25/40-million-hits-a-day-on-wordpress-using-a-10-vps/

Interesting reads even if the 2d article's last test related to micro-caching needs to be read with care : this will only work against CMS targets where mostly always the same pages are served. As soon as a real-world networked apps will serve millions of atomic different requests (E-Commerce, CRM, ERP, Most of the big Saas applications,?), those performances will reasonably and rationally decrease in the following way :

In using multi-core standalone servers (VLANs always deliver less suitable performances per buck invested), if needed interconnected in master-slaves modes via software proxying (Nginx excels in this task too) :

- more than 90% read requests : nginx+luajit (openresty) + well configured micro caching -> multi-thousands of requests / second (lots less under apache2 because its architecture bottlenecks);

- 50% read / 50% write : nginx+luajit (openresty) + well configured socket?s accessible application server (my own Livecode?s application server fork soon on GITHUB, Tarantool by mail.ru, as both the most suitable to date, ) + PostgreSQL or an other serious skilled ACID-SQL RDBMS (AKA: MySQL/MariaDB excluded) + round-robin proxying of the client?s incoming requests ->  : up to thousands of requests / second (lots less under apache2)

- 50% read / 50% write : nginx+luajit (openresty) + LUA or fine tuned/Heap RAM scaled Tomcat7 : thousands of requests / second (lots less under apache2)

- 50% read / 50% write : nginx+luajit (openresty) in its fastCGI different API (FastCGI, FMP-PHP,  FCGIWrap,?) + CGI engine (JSP, PHP, LC, Perl, Python, RoR,? : hundreds of requests / second (lots less under apache2)

- 30% read / 70% write and less : nginx+luajit (openresty) + well configured socket?s accessible application's servers (my own Livecode?s application server fork, Tarantool by mail.ru, or, lots more expensive options instead : JBoss2, Websphere, WebLogic,? ) + PostgreSQL or an other serious skilled ACID-SQL RDBMS are mandatory to be sure that the full scalable periodic bottleneck will always stay on the RDBMS side. It will, by the way, never become a problem as long as technical skills are, there, the sole needs to scale-up on demand such configurations (dynamically or manually) in adding application?s servers instances (one per TCP port behind a round-robin proxy to made the story short) and slave nodes to the RDBMS cluster (physical servers instances needed there, even if lots of VirtualBoxed ones are, in fact, promoted by the IT services providers? -> unrecoverable crashes happening on ACID-SQL RDBMS what is conceptually impossible in hosting each one on its own physical server) 

note : see about Tarantool : http://tarantool.org/doc/intro.html#an-application-server-together-with-a-database-manager
note : Tarantool is the platform i have decided to choose after careful AB tests as the host of my Livecode?s application server port to LUA with lots less to do as i expected previously, most of the work having been very well done for us by the mail.ru engineers.
note : Tarantool is , in short, a deamon witch embedded the LuaJIT virtual machine in the exact same way Livecode let us embed the Livecode engine inside a deamon. 

If you read this, Mark, Kevin,? Well powered behind an Opentesty front-end (Nginx/LuaJIT), Livecode application?s server (demon fork) can do exactly all what Tarantool is able to do ? et r?ciproquement ?, no less, no more while, in the mean time, Tomcat, JBoss2, Websphere, etc? just can?t, even in a very more costly price range (millions), as i use to verify it recently in being hired for an audit of one of the two SAP Hybris multi canal e-commerce suite / associated soft/hardware infrastructure handling the online shop services of the french ? La Poste ? postal service company...
> 
> But my test setup was a bit weirder: lcHTTPd doesn't use Apache at at all.
> 
> The only thing handling the transactions is that one humble single-threaded LC standalone process.

Probably not the best way to go to setup a slave-mode reliable and WAF well protected server-side solution. I would recommend, at least, a basic Apache+LC CGI server configuration instead or, best, a Nginx+FCGIWrap+LC CGI server. The solutions available permits to deliver 50 pages/second on appropriate VPS or hosting services and on the reliability side, WAF configuration included), such configuration really helps to avoid big problems (unreachability, data loss, piracy, etc?).
> 
> Once moved behind a reverse proxy such a tool could easily handle very high loads, using the LC engine we know and love today.

For sure, clearly preferable : LC CGI is?t aimed to be an F-16 in about speed BUT IT IS 100% RELIABLE AS LONG IT IS CLEANLY CONFIGURED AND RUNS WELL CODED  ROW OR, BEST, REVIGNITER POWERED SOLUTIONS. 
> 
> Coupled with something like Andre's revSpark library for easily crafting RESTful APIs revised for an always-on process like lcHTTPd, the range of scalable, performant ad hoc microservices solutions that could be deployed ultra-rapidly with LiveCode is nearly endless.
> 
> Message-based server architectures are all the rage lately, and when we take full advantage of callbacks for network I/O we LiveCoders find we've had the opportunity to enjoy them all along.

I never being a JSON nor XML fan in about reliability and high trafic throughput and was?t sole in this case. Fortunately, the FullREST and MessagePack ways to go covers most of n-tier powered apps in the most reliable ways (and without buzz needs at all !).

note : see about MessagePack : http://msgpack.org/
> 
> Did you see Charles Warwick's post last June about a Docker container for LC Server?:
> http COLON SLASH SLASH lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-July/216882.html

I did?t. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Will read it attentively. On the other hand, i did, months ago, extensive tests in running a good num of Docker VM and to the end, i went to the conclusion that such configurations can?t compete against real-world configuration because the Docker concept itself : well to slow to replace production?s dedicated platforms.
> 
> I can imagine a Docker container, and perhaps a Juju charm for Ubuntu Server and even a Snap for the newer Ubuntu Core, set up to deploy a complete LiveCode microservices solution in one line....
> 
> Ah, if only I had more time for such things.  The funny part is that I'm discovering we have solutions for far larger server loads than any project I'm currently working on actually needs. :)

Not just about fun but indeed... : did you test an Ubuntu smartphone / tablet ? I?m really curious about this and no far from abandoning Android after iOS for my personal needs if it can work as smoothly on phone as it runs on our laptops and server today ;D
> 
> PS - Note on funky URL formats:  This is my fifth attempt to send this email to the list.  In trying to discern why some of my emails come through while others don't, it occurred to me that only those with URLs in them were blocked from posting.  Since no bounce message was received and I haven't yet heard back from support I can only guess how I need to post here now while this seeming email filter problem gets sorted out, so please forgive the funky URL format and if my other emails eventually come through please forgive the redundancy.

PS : sent this one from mail (El Capitan) without tourbe. Seems to be OK when i use Thunderbird from Ubuntu 14.04 too. Did you report this to David ?
PS2: I?m a Debian and Ubuntu fan. Would never roll back anymore to Suse (so fine before being sold to Netware) or RedHat/CentOS?

Cheers,

Pierre

> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com




From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar 29 15:26:59 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 19:26:59 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <8E195D92-0C9C-4EA4-962A-E3301383D222@appisle.net>
References: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F9FAA7.7040104@fourthworld.com>
	<8E195D92-0C9C-4EA4-962A-E3301383D222@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fad703.39593034.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Ahh... so code that has object level scope should be e.g.

 "tiny-little-nav-buttons.livecodescript"

 That is set as the behavior for  those buttons?

and code that has things like  "getLocalAppPath()"

should be in " start using stack "coreAppFunctions.livecodescript"

Is that what you mean?

@ Mark, Monte, Peter (brett)  if you are inspired   -- a tutorial on "building an app from scratch, using the script-only modular approach to the max."  as a video tutorial or something would be fantastic...

ala the old "sheep herder" video that Ben did. It doesn't have to be complicated or too long... just point us in the right direction.

I'll start testing, hacking today, but for newbies who are coming from Ruby, Python, PHP, JS CSS etc... such a tutorial would make a lot of sense... -- how all the pieces fit together... @Mark, you blog post was great... take it one step further!

Like if you create a substack it is saved automatically in the binary, but if I am in an app in the IDE and create a script only stack.. will it be automatically loaded later when I reboot my app in the IDE? OR do we need to manually script the "start using" those stacks, even though we created them in the app just like a substack?  and what is the engine's scope for finding them? Pathwise: does it automatically look for the script only stack in the default folder and is that for the LC engine? or the folder that contains the stack that from which the script only stack was created?  Or should we set up some folders in that ala the JS apps or PHP ... functions, core, object-behaviors  etc. where script are stored and then in the app we explicity have a function to find those libraries/behaviors script-only stacks

Of course I'm going to figure all this out in the next few hours, but it would be great if it were "tutorialized."

And, since LC team has been doing this already for some time... best practices guide would be ideal. I've been studying Google Material Design docs and impressed by the level of "instruction" they give for best practices.  it's pretty awesome...   Someday, something like that for LC, created by all you LC wizards would be

a) really give a leg up for a generation of "code only programmers" who might like to adopt LC
b) help us do it right from the beginning.

yeah, I know.... "coding is easy, documention is hard (smile)









On March 28, 2016 at 5:55:42 PM, Monte Goulding (monte at appisle.net<mailto:monte at appisle.net>) wrote:

Yes, it was the mix of code that should have an object scope and code that was fine to have a application wide scope that I was commenting on Matt.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Mar 2016, at 2:46 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>
> Matt Maier wrote:
>
> > Monte got annoyed that I did something like that instead of setting
> > behaviors. So it might be better to write behaviors in script-only
> > stacks and then set them onto the various controls, rather than
> > managing the controls all the way from the library stack(s).
>
> Behaviors are good. And so are libraries. They're not mutually exclusive.
>
> "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
> ____________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From sc at sahores-conseil.com  Tue Mar 29 15:54:24 2016
From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (sc at sahores-conseil.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:54:24 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
References: <8EDCD644-FDAB-4D1D-AF95-18157F4FF88B@sahores-conseil.com>
Message-ID: <BE58FE60-3034-41B9-955A-9E14E48D4EC2@sahores-conseil.com>

Sorry. Found a mistake in my last mail. please, see the rectification below.

> - 50% read / 50% write : nginx+luajit (openresty) + LUA or fine tuned/Heap RAM scaled Tomcat7 : some hundreds of requests / second (lots less under apache2)

Best,
--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 29 16:29:21 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 13:29:21 -0700
Subject: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
In-Reply-To: <8EDCD644-FDAB-4D1D-AF95-18157F4FF88B@sahores-conseil.com>
References: <8EDCD644-FDAB-4D1D-AF95-18157F4FF88B@sahores-conseil.com>
Message-ID: <56FAE5A1.3030204@fourthworld.com>

Pierre Sahores wrote:

 >> Le 29 mars 2016 ? 17:44, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :
 >>
 >> Pierre Sahores wrote:
...
 > Interesting reads even if the 2d article's last test related to
 > micro-caching needs to be read with care...

Understood.  I offered them merely as inspiration for the scope of 
specialized services that can be delivered on super-affordable VPSes. 
Mine are costing only US$5 and US$6 per month, and both are well below 
capacity when running these stress tests.

Of course each type of app will have its own unique requirements, but my 
crude early tests coupled with the results we see elsewhere reinforce 
your ongoing support for LiveCode as a very powerful addition to one's 
server-side toolkit.


 > If you read this, Mark, Kevin,? Well powered behind an Opentesty
 > front-end (Nginx/LuaJIT), Livecode application?s server (demon fork)
 > can do exactly all what Tarantool is able to do ? et r?ciproquement
 > ?, no less, no more while, in the mean time, Tomcat, JBoss2,
 > Websphere, etc? just can?t, even in a very more costly price range
 > (millions), as i use to verify it recently in being hired for an
 > audit of one of the two SAP Hybris multi canal e-commerce suite /
 > associated soft/hardware infrastructure handling the online shop
 > services of the french ? La Poste ? postal service company...

I would imagine interest is quite high in such things at the company.

The nature of these types of deployments make it a longer-term payoff 
for them, as GPL works well for server work.

But systems like these can put LiveCode into the hands of some very 
interesting companies, and used in conjunction with other smart tools 
like NginX and postreSQL can provide a unique advantage for rapid 
deployment of microservices.


 >> But my test setup was a bit weirder: lcHTTPd doesn't use Apache at
 >> at all.
 >>
 >> The only thing handling the transactions is that one humble
 >> single-threaded LC standalone process.
 >
 > Probably not the best way to go to setup a slave-mode reliable and
 > WAF well protected server-side solution. I would recommend, at least,
 > a basic Apache+LC CGI server configuration instead or, best, a
 > Nginx+FCGIWrap+LC CGI server. The solutions available permits to
 > deliver 50 pages/second on appropriate VPS or hosting services and
 > on the reliability side, WAF configuration included), such
 > configuration really helps to avoid big problems (unreachability,
 > data loss, piracy, etc?).

Exactly.  These early tests were merely to measure the effectiveness of 
LC's message-based network I/O.  The advantage of any scripting language 
isn't up front -- too many great tools like NginX for that role.

Where LC can shine is as a worker behind NginX.  And there all results 
seen thus far suggest it can shine brightly.


 >> Once moved behind a reverse proxy such a tool could easily handle
 >> very high loads, using the LC engine we know and love today.
 >
 > For sure, clearly preferable : LC CGI is?t aimed to be an F-16 in
 > about speed BUT IT IS 100% RELIABLE AS LONG IT IS CLEANLY CONFIGURED
 > AND RUNS WELL CODED ROW OR, BEST, REVIGNITER POWERED SOLUTIONS.

...or far faster and more scalable, leave the bounds of CGI behind and 
use sockets with a standalone.

It would take only minimal work to craft a glue lib for RevIgniter or 
Andre's revSpark to work with a standalone rather than the CGI-dependent 
LC Server.


 > note : see about MessagePack : http://msgpack.org/

Good stuff.

And in those cases where the client is also LiveCode we can use LSON 
(LiveCode encoded arrays) for superfast transport and decoding.



 >> Did you see Charles Warwick's post last June about a Docker
 >> container for LC Server?:
 >> http COLON SLASH SLASH
lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-July/216882.html
 >
 > I did?t. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Will read it attentively.
 > On the other hand, i did, months ago, extensive tests in running a
 > good num of Docker VM and to the end, i went to the conclusion that
 > such configurations can?t compete against real-world configuration
 > because the Docker concept itself : well to slow to replace
 > production?s dedicated platforms.

That may be a role where Juju could come in, but the more I think about 
this for needs as modest as my own the more I think there's an 
opportunity for something far simpler:

Rather than Docker or Juju or something else that requires a managing 
process running on the server, a VPS is already "containerized" by 
virtue of the "V" in "VPS" - so why not use a simple bash script to 
download the various LiveCode elements, put them into place and set 
permissions, install any databases desired, config SSH and UFW to 
reflect how one wants to use the machine.

Given some time I could write a GUI that can generate such bash scripts, 
but there's the rub: "given some time". :)


 > did you test an Ubuntu smartphone / tablet ? I?m really curious about
 > this and no far from abandoning Android after iOS for my personal
 > needs if it can work as smoothly on phone as it runs on our laptops
 > and server today ;D

I've spent several minutes with an Ubuntu phone at the UbuCon Summit 
here in February.  Very nice implementation, with some bold ideas about 
what an application is with their "scopes".

Personally I'm quite immersed in the Android ecosystem, but as a 
developer my hope is the Linux/ARM LiveCode engine could be outfitted 
with glue for Qt using LC Builder and then we can add Ubuntu Touch to 
the mobile deployment platforms.



 >> PS - Note on funky URL formats:  This is my fifth attempt to send
 >> this email to the list....
 >
 > PS : sent this one from mail (El Capitan) without tourbe. Seems to be
 > OK when i use Thunderbird from Ubuntu 14.04 too. Did you report this
 > to David ?

Heather's recommendation is to send such requests to support AT for best 
routing, which I've done.


 > PS2: I?m a Debian and Ubuntu fan. Would never roll back anymore to
 > Suse (so fine before being sold to Netware) or RedHat/CentOS?

Red Hat's been a very generous sponsor of our local Linux user group, 
and they've had so much success in recent years I certainly have no 
complaints.  And I admire the design goals of Fedora, and others.

But like you, I've been rather enamored of Ubuntu, both client and 
server.  It's popular enough that it no longer feels particularly 
adventurous to use it - it's no more of a niche these days than choosing 
Mac or any other non-Windows system.  But ah, the flexibility....

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
____________________________________________________________________
Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com





From tom at makeshyft.com  Tue Mar 29 16:30:03 2016
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:30:03 -0400
Subject: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
In-Reply-To: <BE58FE60-3034-41B9-955A-9E14E48D4EC2@sahores-conseil.com>
References: <8EDCD644-FDAB-4D1D-AF95-18157F4FF88B@sahores-conseil.com>
	<BE58FE60-3034-41B9-955A-9E14E48D4EC2@sahores-conseil.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk4XB6X2goU1+37EHeBLi3V5_pUFACp-RwLuaUvuJGeSv2Fpw@mail.gmail.com>

Fascinating thread! thanks guys.

Any test with node.js as a file server?

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 3:54 PM, <sc at sahores-conseil.com> wrote:

> Sorry. Found a mistake in my last mail. please, see the rectification
> below.
>
> > - 50% read / 50% write : nginx+luajit (openresty) + LUA or fine
> tuned/Heap RAM scaled Tomcat7 : some hundreds of requests / second (lots
> less under apache2)
>
> Best,
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
> www.sahores-conseil.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar 29 16:36:49 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 20:36:49 +0000
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Duh: OK this makes sense since the foreground color is the pencil color, is the text color, is the line color etc.

> foregroundColor (forecolor) = border colour


@ Richard --> Right you can turn on the English "meanings" of the property labels. Downside is: this doesn't help you later if you want to touch props by script. So I've left them to their native names so I would learn them that way.

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Mar 29 16:40:37 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 13:40:37 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56FAE845.1040708@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/29/2016 12:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>  > I?m guessing you have the preference setting ?Property Labels Are:?
>  > set to ?Name of LiveCode Property.
>
> Why doesn't a tool for an English-like language display its native
> English-like property names by default?
>
> Making that change is the first thing I encourage newcomers to do so
> they can learn faster, getting reinforcement of property names every
> time they use the Inspector.
>

Yeah. I'm still puzzled about why that isn't the default. Or why that 
choice even exists at all.

Does someone really think that "Can't Delete" is easier to understand 
than "cantdelete"? Or "3D" is easier to understand than "threed"? Or 
"Text Size" easier than "textSize"?

And why is "Width" easier to understand than "width"?

For that matter, why is "Foreground Fill" a replacement for the 
combination of "foregroundColor" and "foregroundPattern"?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 29 16:47:43 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 13:47:43 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fad703.39593034.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F9FAA7.7040104@fourthworld.com>
	<8E195D92-0C9C-4EA4-962A-E3301383D222@appisle.net>
	<etPan.56fad703.39593034.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <33A0CF73-9794-409F-BAE2-A5357ED521F7@earthednet.org>

I second this. Organizing the code in a project is really important and there are lots of ways to go wrong.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Mar 29, 2016, at 12:26 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org> wrote:
> 
> Ahh... so code that has object level scope should be e.g.
> 
> "tiny-little-nav-buttons.livecodescript"
> 
> That is set as the behavior for  those buttons?
> 
> and code that has things like  "getLocalAppPath()"
> 
> should be in " start using stack "coreAppFunctions.livecodescript"
> 
> Is that what you mean?
> 
> @ Mark, Monte, Peter (brett)  if you are inspired   -- a tutorial on "building an app from scratch, using the script-only modular approach to the max."  as a video tutorial or something would be fantastic...
> 
> ala the old "sheep herder" video that Ben did. It doesn't have to be complicated or too long... just point us in the right direction.
> 
> I'll start testing, hacking today, but for newbies who are coming from Ruby, Python, PHP, JS CSS etc... such a tutorial would make a lot of sense... -- how all the pieces fit together... @Mark, you blog post was great... take it one step further!
> 
> Like if you create a substack it is saved automatically in the binary, but if I am in an app in the IDE and create a script only stack.. will it be automatically loaded later when I reboot my app in the IDE? OR do we need to manually script the "start using" those stacks, even though we created them in the app just like a substack?  and what is the engine's scope for finding them? Pathwise: does it automatically look for the script only stack in the default folder and is that for the LC engine? or the folder that contains the stack that from which the script only stack was created?  Or should we set up some folders in that ala the JS apps or PHP ... functions, core, object-behaviors  etc. where script are stored and then in the app we explicity have a function to find those libraries/behaviors script-only stacks
> 
> Of course I'm going to figure all this out in the next few hours, but it would be great if it were "tutorialized."
> 
> And, since LC team has been doing this already for some time... best practices guide would be ideal. I've been studying Google Material Design docs and impressed by the level of "instruction" they give for best practices.  it's pretty awesome...   Someday, something like that for LC, created by all you LC wizards would be
> 
> a) really give a leg up for a generation of "code only programmers" who might like to adopt LC
> b) help us do it right from the beginning.
> 
> yeah, I know.... "coding is easy, documention is hard (smile)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On March 28, 2016 at 5:55:42 PM, Monte Goulding (monte at appisle.net<mailto:monte at appisle.net>) wrote:
> 
> Yes, it was the mix of code that should have an object scope and code that was fine to have a application wide scope that I was commenting on Matt.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29 Mar 2016, at 2:46 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Matt Maier wrote:
>> 
>>> Monte got annoyed that I did something like that instead of setting
>>> behaviors. So it might be better to write behaviors in script-only
>>> stacks and then set them onto the various controls, rather than
>>> managing the controls all the way from the library stack(s).
>> 
>> Behaviors are good. And so are libraries. They're not mutually exclusive.
>> 
>> "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar 29 16:49:14 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 20:49:14 +0000
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Alejandro:

Nandri, Mahalo, Merci, Thank you!

Awesome.... extremely useful


On March 28, 2016 at 7:44:22 PM, Alejandro Tejada (capellan2000 at gmail.com<mailto:capellan2000 at gmail.com>) wrote:

Hi All,

By trial and error, (the worse kind of error)
I finally find a script that mask an image using
a vector graphic. Follow these steps to make
it work.

1) create a new stack and import an image

2) over this image, draw a closed vector graphic
using any drawing tool (including freehand
or freehand polygon)

3) in this same stack, (that only have two objects:
an image and a single vector graphic)
create a button and set the script of this button
to this:

on mouseUp

set the locklocation of img 1 to true
import snapshot from img 1
set the loc of img 2 to the loc of img 1
delete img 1
-- after deleting img 1, img 2 becomes img 1

crop img 1 to the rect of grc 1

set the opaque of grc 1 to true
set the foregroundColor of grc 1 to black
set the linesize of grc 1 to 0
set the ink of grc 1 to srcCopy
set the width of grc 1 to the width of img 1
set the height of grc 1 to the height of img 1

import snapshot from grc 1 -- this snapshot created image 2

set the alphadata of image 1 to the alphadata of image 2

delete grc 1 -- vector graphic
delete img 2 -- image
end mouseUp

Works fine here, but could be enhanced
in many ways, for example:

Who wants to extend this script to mask
images using the alphadata from
transparent png and static transparent
gif images?

Thanks in advance!

Alejandro




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702723.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 29 16:51:39 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 13:51:39 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FAEADB.1040906@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
 > @ Richard --> Right you can turn on the English "meanings" of the
 > property labels. Downside is: this doesn't help you later if you
 > want to touch props by script. So I've left them to their native
 > names so I would learn them that way.

I wrote the opposite.

If you're seeing actual LiveCode property names there you went out of 
your way to change that in Prefs.

I hope I'm wrong about v8, but in all versions I've seen the default is 
to show the user labels very different from the setting's actual 
property name (something I've been known to call "lie mode" when I'm 
feeling particularly cantankerous).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 29 16:58:08 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 13:58:08 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <33A0CF73-9794-409F-BAE2-A5357ED521F7@earthednet.org>
References: <33A0CF73-9794-409F-BAE2-A5357ED521F7@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56FAEC60.4040309@fourthworld.com>

William Prothero wrote:

> Organizing the code in a project is really important and there are lots of ways to go wrong.

Can you describe some?

While documenting good patterns can be useful, sometimes documenting 
anti-patterns is just as useful.

Several years ago at one of the LC conferences in Monterey Ken Ray and I 
did a talk called "LiveCode Patterns and Anti-Patterns".  So much has 
changed since then (behaviors, before and after messages, script-only 
stacks, etc.) that it would be very helpful to hear your concerns as I 
prepare to dive into my archives for the old notes....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Mar 29 18:03:46 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 15:03:46 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FAE845.1040708@ahsoftware.net>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
	<56FAE845.1040708@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <D32048A5.7E0CA%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Frankly, I could do widthout this commentary.

;-)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/29/16, 1:40 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder"
<use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

>And why is "Width" easier to understand than "width"?





From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 29 18:30:08 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 15:30:08 -0700
Subject: Deleting a Control in LC8 DP16 in the IDE
Message-ID: <3BB3ADD4-691D-41B4-8368-A9EA5C6C0395@earthednet.org>

In Version 7, I can delete a control, by selecting the control in the Project Browser, and clicking ?Delete?. This doesn?t happen in LC8 DP16, on OSX. 

Bug? I can delete it by selecting it on the stage and clicking ?Delete?. I remember something about this mentioned on the list, but can?t find it.

Best,
Bill



William Prothero, Ph.D.
University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
prothero at earthednet.org






From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar 29 18:37:16 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:37:16 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FAEC60.4040309@fourthworld.com>
References: <33A0CF73-9794-409F-BAE2-A5357ED521F7@earthednet.org>
	<56FAEC60.4040309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fb039b.2c6d6fae.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

?
I'm going blind here, eyes burning with the app contents open to the LC 8 application folder and looking at the 100's of .rev, .livecodescript and .livecode files.

So here's a thought experiment and me thinking outloud for this actual project in front of me.

Starting at square 1  

The script only stacks have zero "auto presence" path wise... relative to any .livecode stack  

Later you will need to explicitly find it (OK.. I know.. too obvious but let's declare it anyway)

on mouseUp
put specialFolderPath("Resources") into tMyHomePath
start using stack ( tMyHomePath & "/" &"libraries/CoreTextfieldFunctions.livecode")?
	#all things readable in fields
checkPath ("Yes, i Got It.")
End mouseUp

I tried to find where the revIDE stacks were setting up their root default folder but could not find it.

Looking for patterns we see e.g.?

/contents/Tools/Toolset/Libraries
/contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes
? ? ? /behaviors
? ? ? /dictionary
? ? ? /inspector
? ? ? ? ? /behaviors
? ? ? ? ? /editors

with .rev and .livecode stacks here and there.

I need a nap to absorb and create a picture of the incredible number of separate files in the IDE!

Though ""Everything is true, Everything is Permitted" one way is obvious -- use ?the MVC model for the thought experiment -- this assumes one has had the discipline to draft a relatively complete functional specification for your app ahead of time... of course in AGILE mode this could change but you need to start somewhere.?

You have two classes of code:?

1) Code that serves as underlying end point of messages from coming from the views (mouse down/up swipes, taps typing, clicking)... pertains to the "back end" ... ? ?then we organize by folders that relate to function. ?Let;s use the RevIgniter core as an example.. and quite possibly this is adaptable to any given app.

config
controllers?
? ? # presumably you segregate the traffic cops here
? ? # but don't mix in more complex functions
cronjobs
db
errors
helpers
hooks
index.html # could be "MyApp.livecode"
language
libraries
models
plugins
stacks
views

2) Code that pertains directly to the presentation layer itself, main stack, substacks that are binary.livecode stacks, cards and controls. and they that the user actually sees and interacts with. Code that actually dynamically builds or manipulates the GUI...?

So these you can organize along the lines of your functional specification "Views" seems a reasonable uber way to think about it.
though perhaps "stacks" is enough and better term, since from HC days a stack is what we see (though now we have that line blurred with script-only stacks)

/stacks/
? ?home screen
? ?portals (navigation screens)
? ?user-account
? ?user Settings
? ?favorites
? ?readers # text displays, reading books, quotes
? ?web-browers # for cards with the browser widget
? ?my-exercises # exercise tracker or whatever
? ?image-puzzles # some game
? ?etc.
? ?assets
? ? ?/fonts
? ? ?/img
? ? ? ? stack-wide
? ? ? ? portals
? ? ? ? my-exercises
? ? ? ? image-puzzles.

Inside those folders, following on the LC teams patterns, you segregate behaviors from libraries, by criteria I have yet to fully grok. ?I'll be looking into the msg path after that nap and possibly that will clarify things.?

That's a small beginning, I hope. perhaps we can find broad classes that work everywhere for #1 set of code above.. that would be ideal. Though I expect because of the "anything is permitted" law... it may also be somewhat subject depending on your style?

Comments?

BR
? ? ? ??
? ?
?

On March 29, 2016 at 10:58:48 AM, Richard Gaskin (ambassador at fourthworld.com(mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com)) wrote:

> William Prothero wrote:  
>  
> > Organizing the code in a project is really important and there are lots of ways to go wrong.  
>  
> Can you describe some?  
>  
> While documenting good patterns can be useful, sometimes documenting  
> anti-patterns is just as useful.  
>  
> Several years ago at one of the LC conferences in Monterey Ken Ray and I  
> did a talk called "LiveCode Patterns and Anti-Patterns". So much has  
> changed since then (behaviors, before and after messages, script-only  
> stacks, etc.) that it would be very helpful to hear your concerns as I  
> prepare to dive into my archives for the old notes....  
>  
> --  
> Richard Gaskin  
> Fourth World Systems  
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web 

From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 29 18:44:11 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 15:44:11 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FAEC60.4040309@fourthworld.com>
References: <33A0CF73-9794-409F-BAE2-A5357ED521F7@earthednet.org>
	<56FAEC60.4040309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DACBBF34-6F18-4B2A-AE1F-CF068401B16D@earthednet.org>

Richard:
Some of the items were mentioned in Bramanathaswami?s post. Some, of course, is just taste. I put almost all of my code in substacks, but haven?t tried text only stacks yet. I can?t see having a jillion small text files to keep track of. But then, a lot of folks seem to love them, so I wonder at the advantages. Of course, there?s the github thing. I work by myself, so that isn?t a factor, but I can see it would be major for teams.

Code that?s portable between apps is important. Perhaps that would be something to discuss. And I really haven?t messed with implementing personal code ?Libraries?. The requirement for strict ID?s for behaviors makes them less portable. Do text only stacks help in this regard?

So, I think what I?m ?seconding? is that a higher lever than ?newby? tutorials on code organization through Libraries, Text only stacks, substacks, etc, would be useful and I would give it a hard look-see. Currently, I?m pretty satisfied with my current approach, but over the last year, I?ve changed it so much as I learned more about LiveCode, that I wonder what I?m missing.

Thanks, Richard, for all your comments and help on this list.
Best,
Bill

> On Mar 29, 2016, at 1:58 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
>> Organizing the code in a project is really important and there are lots of ways to go wrong.
> 
> Can you describe some?
> 
> While documenting good patterns can be useful, sometimes documenting anti-patterns is just as useful.
> 
> Several years ago at one of the LC conferences in Monterey Ken Ray and I did a talk called "LiveCode Patterns and Anti-Patterns".  So much has changed since then (behaviors, before and after messages, script-only stacks, etc.) that it would be very helpful to hear your concerns as I prepare to dive into my archives for the old notes....
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mkoob at rogers.com  Tue Mar 29 18:25:00 2016
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 15:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
Message-ID: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi,  

I have an site on on-rev TIO that was working but now that it has been
transferred to the new site it generates livecode errors on some pages.

I had this problem a couple of years ago but David Williams had managed to
make it run on TIO which would accept the legacy site using LiveCode server
4.6.4

Now with the new site I am sure that is not an option.  

I have found one issue that I fixed,  a variable was named SESSION which is
a reserved word in LiveCode as of 5.0   I also found there is a variable
REQUEST which is an array.  I think I ran into this before and renamed them
$_POST. Is that correct?

Is there any document on on changes between LiveCode server 4.6.4 and later
versions and how to transition?  I looked at http://downloads.livecode.com
but after version 5.0 I don't see specific documentation for server.

Thanks

Martin




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-legacy-on-rev-site-tripped-up-on-new-LiveCode-hosting-service-tp4702748.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From sc at sahores-conseil.com  Tue Mar 29 19:06:26 2016
From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 01:06:26 +0200
Subject: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
In-Reply-To: <CAEk4XB6X2goU1+37EHeBLi3V5_pUFACp-RwLuaUvuJGeSv2Fpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8EDCD644-FDAB-4D1D-AF95-18157F4FF88B@sahores-conseil.com>
	<BE58FE60-3034-41B9-955A-9E14E48D4EC2@sahores-conseil.com>
	<CAEk4XB6X2goU1+37EHeBLi3V5_pUFACp-RwLuaUvuJGeSv2Fpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <111AB40F-14D6-4F52-87AA-FF300DDC1ABF@sahores-conseil.com>


> Le 29 mars 2016 ? 22:30, Tom Glod <tom at makeshyft.com> a ?crit :
> 
> Fascinating thread! thanks guys.
> 
> Any test with node.js as a file server?

While raw JS and JQuery are, beside fine prebuild templates alike those ones ! :

http://html5up.net/

i like to tune web interface from (as some of the ways to waste the less possible time in about web client-side design and coding) and persist to watch most of the JS most hype frameworks as irrelevant because redundancy (if not recursive bord-effects) of the functions they all implements and runs each at their turn even if one should suffice ? to slow down the code display by 2 times, 4 times, etc for each new JS framework added to the loop?

A web server + a sockets and round-robin proxy + an application server + 1 RDBMS on the server-side, HTML5 + CSS3 + tax JS + JQuery on the web client-side, per deployed app should probably stay the most direct way for a long time in both elegance, affordability and reliability terms.

About node.js, as long as i understand without error the reports i got about it, i don?t expect to never get more from it in about reliability, security and speed than what can be done in running LC app server or Tarantool. If so, ? ma paresse ? recommends me to stay away from it.

> 
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 3:54 PM, <sc at sahores-conseil.com> wrote:
> 
>> Sorry. Found a mistake in my last mail. please, see the rectification
>> below.
>> 
>>> - 50% read / 50% write : nginx+luajit (openresty) + LUA or fine
>> tuned/Heap RAM scaled Tomcat7 : some hundreds of requests / second (lots
>> less under apache2)
>> 
>> Best,
>> --
>> Pierre Sahores
>> mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
>> www.sahores-conseil.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar 29 19:08:31 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:08:31 -0500
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <D32048A5.7E0CA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
	<56FAE845.1040708@ahsoftware.net>
	<D32048A5.7E0CA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <153c4a2b598.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Well if that isn't the height of snobbery.

:-P

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On March 29, 2016 5:05:24 PM Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> Frankly, I could do widthout this commentary.
>
> ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
> On 3/29/16, 1:40 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder"
> <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
> mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>
>>And why is "Width" easier to understand than "width"?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Mar 29 19:36:47 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:36:47 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <153c4a2b598.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com> <56FAE845.1040708@ahsoftware.net>
	<D32048A5.7E0CA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<153c4a2b598.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56FB118F.8040207@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/29/2016 04:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Well if that isn't the height of snobbery.

The depth of your replies always charges me up.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Mar 29 19:52:59 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:52:59 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <DACBBF34-6F18-4B2A-AE1F-CF068401B16D@earthednet.org>
References: <DACBBF34-6F18-4B2A-AE1F-CF068401B16D@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56FB155B.7070008@fourthworld.com>

William Prothero wrote:

 > I put almost all of my code in substacks, but haven?t tried text only
 > stacks yet. I can?t see having a jillion small text files to keep
 > track of. But then, a lot of folks seem to love them, so I wonder at
 > the advantages. Of course, there?s the github thing.

That's pretty much it.  Xtalks give us the option of sharing code 
between projects in stack files, or keeping lots of stacks tidily tucked 
away in substacks if they're only used in one project.  And with the 
flexibility of LC's Standalone Builder, we can even have shared library 
stacks included with out mainstack at build time, to deliver a 
convenient single-file standalone that truly stands alone.

Chipp Walters, Ken Ray, and others have made check-in/check-out style 
tools for many years to handle multi-person team development rather 
well.  In Gain Momentum (an xTalk I once used made by Sybase) they had a 
system like that built in.

But that's just us, here in our relatively small corner of the world.

Then there's the rest of the world: a landscape filled with text files. 
  Lots of them. An app made in C++ or Python or most other languages is 
a rather sizable collection of text files.  The LC code base, for 
example, has hundreds.  The Linux kernel, one of the largest software 
projects on earth, uses more than 38,000 source files.

Given how those languages work, it made sense for version control 
systems to be created which are based around managing lots of tiny text 
files.

Our world and theirs happily coexisted much as Native Americans and 
Europeans did for so many centuries:  life was easy for centuries, until 
they met.

LiveCode's audience is growing, and the use of traditional version 
control systems has also grown.

Today, so many dev shops are so attached to the work flows afforded by 
modern VCSes like Github that it would be a severe impairment for them 
to do without.  And unless LiveCode could adapt to those VCSes, that 
would mean no LiveCode for them.

So script-only stacks are part of an evolutionary process for LiveCode, 
a way to play nice with others.

Now that behavior scripts (which I still believe would be less ambiguous 
and more descriptive if called by their original name, "parentScripts") 
can use script-only stacks as well, and now that Widgets are externally 
written script files, most of the code in even the most complex LiveCode 
app can be put into text files for those that need it, leaving only 
relatively small UI stacks as binary files, no worse than XCode's NIB files.

I still feel there's a role for other versioning systems, including the 
sorts of stack-file-based check-in/check-out systems we've seen.  But I 
believe it's a limited one, best suited for certain type of development 
shops.

As much as those may seem like with-the-grain solutions for LiveCode, 
they also arguably contribute to LiveCode being a sort of island, 
marginalized outside of the infrastructure through which the rest of the 
world shares code.

And best IMO is that this is not merely a theoretical exercise:  the 
team is eating their own haggis by putting these features to work in the 
IDE, one of the most complex LiveCode apps around.

And if you follow the team's progress on Github you can see the benefits 
for large projects immediately:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulse

It would take significant effort to make a VCS ourselves that was as 
complete, but that and more is available for free there.



 > Code that?s portable between apps is important. Perhaps that would
 > be something to discuss. And I really haven?t messed with
 > implementing personal code ?Libraries?. The requirement for strict
 > ID?s for behaviors makes them less portable. Do text only stacks help
 > in this regard?

Not necessarily, but if you're working in teams they can be tremendously 
beneficial by allowing you to use common diff tools to quickly identify 
changes.

And for those working on open source projects I would consider 
script-only libraries almost essential, since folks likely to contribute 
to such projects are already on Github and know the flow.


 > So, I think what I?m ?seconding? is that a higher lever than ?newby?
 > tutorials on code organization through Libraries, Text only stacks,
 > substacks, etc, would be useful and I would give it a hard look-see.
 > Currently, I?m pretty satisfied with my current approach, but over
 > the last year, I?ve changed it so much as I learned more about
 > LiveCode, that I wonder what I?m missing.

You and me both.  Just like the LC IDE now undergoing its fourth major 
revision, every few years I look at my code and the mix of new language 
features plus what I've learned since I wrote it and I dive in for a 
rewrite.

In other language the scope of materials Bramanathaswami described is 
handled in a book, of which several compete in the pursuit of a "best".

All I know is I can't write one of them:  given how long it takes to 
write a good book by the time I finished I'd be doing things differently 
than what I'd written. :)


 > Thanks, Richard, for all your comments and help on this list.

That's very kind of you, Bill.  Given your many accomplishments over the 
long years I've known you that means a lot to me.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Mar 29 20:50:36 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:50:36 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FB118F.8040207@ahsoftware.net>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
	<56FAE845.1040708@ahsoftware.net>
	<D32048A5.7E0CA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<153c4a2b598.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56FB118F.8040207@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <507B5752-6ACC-4E89-B474-2D367DC5BEB4@tactilemedia.com>

This pointless bickering needs to end fourthwidth.


Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media UX/UI Design

> On Mar 29, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/29/2016 04:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> Well if that isn't the height of snobbery.
> 
> The depth of your replies always charges me up.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From revdev at pdslabs.net  Tue Mar 29 21:00:14 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:00:14 -0700
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net>

Hi Martin,

I had a major show-stopper on diesel recently (after LC's move to Liquid 
Web as the new on-rev host) that involved the server-side $_POST array. 
In bug report #15173 <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17153> 
I included a zip file of client & server parts you can use to see if 
this is your problem too.

If I understand correctly, LC Server 7.1.0 (the default version) doesn't 
see $_POST as an array. Don't know the in's and out's of it, but I know 
stuff definitely stopped working. The bug was fixed and is awaiting the 
next build, but that doesn't immediately help folks like me (and maybe 
you) who need stuff to keep working like it always has.

Thankfully, David Williams created a workaround - he installed LC 6.6.2 
(same version as on the previous hosting) somewhere and told me I can 
make it my site's default by adding these lines to my ~/public_html 
.htaccess file:

     AddHandler livecode-server .lc
     Action livecode-server /cgi-bin/livecode-server-6.6.2

I used these lines to change the default LCS version to 6.6.2 in my 
accounts on tio and diesel. Maybe it would give you what you need.

Thanks -
Phil Davis




On 3/29/16 3:25 PM, Martin Koob wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have an site on on-rev TIO that was working but now that it has been
> transferred to the new site it generates livecode errors on some pages.
>
> I had this problem a couple of years ago but David Williams had managed to
> make it run on TIO which would accept the legacy site using LiveCode server
> 4.6.4
>
> Now with the new site I am sure that is not an option.
>
> I have found one issue that I fixed,  a variable was named SESSION which is
> a reserved word in LiveCode as of 5.0   I also found there is a variable
> REQUEST which is an array.  I think I ran into this before and renamed them
> $_POST. Is that correct?
>
> Is there any document on on changes between LiveCode server 4.6.4 and later
> versions and how to transition?  I looked at http://downloads.livecode.com
> but after version 5.0 I don't see specific documentation for server.
>
> Thanks
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-legacy-on-rev-site-tripped-up-on-new-LiveCode-hosting-service-tp4702748.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Phil Davis



From sc at sahores-conseil.com  Tue Mar 29 21:09:56 2016
From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 03:09:56 +0200
Subject: Siege benchmarks for Pierre
In-Reply-To: <56FAE5A1.3030204@fourthworld.com>
References: <8EDCD644-FDAB-4D1D-AF95-18157F4FF88B@sahores-conseil.com>
	<56FAE5A1.3030204@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <540076AD-4C13-4309-967C-669F3C543AAC@sahores-conseil.com>


> Le 29 mars 2016 ? 22:29, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> a ?crit :
> 
> Pierre Sahores wrote:
> 
> >> Le 29 mars 2016 ? 17:44, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :
> >>
> >> Pierre Sahores wrote:
> ...
> > Interesting reads even if the 2d article's last test related to
> > micro-caching needs to be read with care...
> 
> Understood.  I offered them merely as inspiration for the scope of specialized services that can be delivered on super-affordable VPSes. Mine are costing only US$5 and US$6 per month, and both are well below capacity when running these stress tests.
> 
> Of course each type of app will have its own unique requirements, but my crude early tests coupled with the results we see elsewhere reinforce your ongoing support for LiveCode as a very powerful addition to one's server-side toolkit.
> 
> 
> > If you read this, Mark, Kevin,? Well powered behind an Opentesty
> > front-end (Nginx/LuaJIT), Livecode application?s server (demon fork)
> > can do exactly all what Tarantool is able to do ? et r?ciproquement
> > ?, no less, no more while, in the mean time, Tomcat, JBoss2,
> > Websphere, etc? just can?t, even in a very more costly price range
> > (millions), as i use to verify it recently in being hired for an
> > audit of one of the two SAP Hybris multi canal e-commerce suite /
> > associated soft/hardware infrastructure handling the online shop
> > services of the french ? La Poste ? postal service company...
> 
> I would imagine interest is quite high in such things at the company.

Even if, as a typical JVM powered app example, SAP Hybris can work clearly well as long as it?s not urbanized in a head-down way to go with dozens of bottlenecks mainly aimed to makes the invoice fly to the sky, SAP Hybris will never work smoother, nor as fast as a well urbanized LC application?s server or Tarantool powered solution. Why ? At least because the JVM Heap Memory model will never being 50% as reliable as the C based LiveCode or Lua (Tarantool) based ones. At least, because the Java pseudo-multithreading model don?t work more well than a clean and fast single-threaded process. Where some ones are thinking that Livecode should be revamped as a multi-threaded engine to being able compete on the app's servers market, Tarantool (LuaJIT powered witch is officially a single-thread engine) proves that this assertion is irrelevant.

To illustrante this point, a simple demonstration will suffice :

50 HTTP POST incoming requests ?> Lua script proxy able to connect TCP ports 5941 to 5945 ?> one LC application server deamon (launched via init.d at boot in starting the same application stack file via symlinks attached to the five standalone runners) behind each port ?> each LC server will handle its 10 requests before going back to idle and that?s all the story. This way to go works so fine and perfectly that i permits us to reserve a port to development work while the other are in production mode. At this point, a simple restart suffice to update the production app?s servers each time it is appropriate. Simple, is?t ? 

At a point or an other, after adding, say, a dozen of Application?s servers to the config, the hardware host will begin to say STOP with a TOP average over 50%, the regular way to go to improve scalability in a smooth, reliable and affordable way will be to deport the RDBMS server on a separate hardware box, to add new app servers on a new box, to build a RDBMS cluster (multiple hardware boxes where the master  RDBMS is configured to the receive all the incoming write operations while its slaves (the other RDBMS boxes are playing two complementary roles : a.- they receive replication requests triggers from the master after each write operation completed on it - important : UDP replications methods have to be forbidden there in favor of TCP ones; b.- they respond to all read requests to avoid asynchronous loads on both the master and the slaves RDBMS.

More practical and simple as it should appears at first glance and an infinite way to scale up configurations in the most simple way to go (linear complexity model ? la LegoLand).

> The nature of these types of deployments make it a longer-term payoff for them, as GPL works well for server work.

Would be the case, for sure, as soon as a reference project could be established and, at this point, the legitimacy of Edinburgh to act in this way is at 100% for both UK and Western Europ at least. As an example, about what is starting up on the Lua side, the most reliable company is a 6 persons web agency established at Vincennes (near Paris). Visit them at to see what they are successfully doing with lots of smart methods and low if no investment needs at all :

http://mamas.am/

Amazing works and prestigious clients, is?t ?

> But systems like these can put LiveCode into the hands of some very interesting companies, and used in conjunction with other smart tools like NginX and postreSQL can provide a unique advantage for rapid deployment of micro services.
> 
In my experience, the most interesting customers will never really ask for knowledge transferts and will always prefer not to endorse the service provider responsibilities at all. It?s a good cursor to get in mind along the budget negotiation timeline. To the end, Livecode is legitimate to investigate this way to go to establish the company on a market where big gains are just awaiting for such an initiative. Its indirect competitors (IT services operators alike,at least, the french GFI, GapGemini, Thales,... would be surprised as they could be by what begins to appears on the Lua side.
> 
> >> But my test setup was a bit weirder: lcHTTPd doesn't use Apache at
> >> at all.
> >>
> >> The only thing handling the transactions is that one humble
> >> single-threaded LC standalone process.
> >
> > Probably not the best way to go to setup a slave-mode reliable and
> > WAF well protected server-side solution. I would recommend, at least,
> > a basic Apache+LC CGI server configuration instead or, best, a
> > Nginx+FCGIWrap+LC CGI server. The solutions available permits to
> > deliver 50 pages/second on appropriate VPS or hosting services and
> > on the reliability side, WAF configuration included), such
> > configuration really helps to avoid big problems (unreachability,
> > data loss, piracy, etc?).
> 
> Exactly.  These early tests were merely to measure the effectiveness of LC's message-based network I/O.  The advantage of any scripting language isn't up front -- too many great tools like NginX for that role.
> 
> Where LC can shine is as a worker behind NginX.  And there all results seen thus far suggest it can shine brightly.
> 
More AB tests to come soon (LC application server versus Tarantool) as soon as the recently realized Nginx/LuaJIT master app will run from inside Tarantool. At this point, i have to terminate both its LC version clone and Tarantool deployment version but it should not take more than a couple of weeks.

Any Nginx+LuaJIT+PostgreSQL or, best, Openresty+PostgreSQL hosting service to recommend ?
> 
> >> Once moved behind a reverse proxy such a tool could easily handle
> >> very high loads, using the LC engine we know and love today.
> >
> > For sure, clearly preferable : LC CGI is?t aimed to be an F-16 in
> > about speed BUT IT IS 100% RELIABLE AS LONG IT IS CLEANLY CONFIGURED
> > AND RUNS WELL CODED ROW OR, BEST, REVIGNITER POWERED SOLUTIONS.
> 
> ...or far faster and more scalable, leave the bounds of CGI behind and use sockets with a standalone.
> 
> It would take only minimal work to craft a glue lib for RevIgniter or Andre's revSpark to work with a standalone rather than the CGI-dependent LC Server.
> 
> 
> > note : see about MessagePack : http://msgpack.org/
> 
> Good stuff.
> 
> And in those cases where the client is also LiveCode we can use LSON (LiveCode encoded arrays) for superfast transport and decoding.
> 
I went not, for years now, able to defend this way to go even if its lots more reliable and affordable than relying on web stuff on the client-side. Are french clients are like sheeps in about this ? Am i an irrelevant vendor in about such solutions ? Probably Yes + Yes...
> 
> >> Did you see Charles Warwick's post last June about a Docker
> >> container for LC Server?:
> >> http COLON SLASH SLASH
> lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-July/216882.html
> >
> > I did?t. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Will read it attentively.
> > On the other hand, i did, months ago, extensive tests in running a
> > good num of Docker VM and to the end, i went to the conclusion that
> > such configurations can?t compete against real-world configuration
> > because the Docker concept itself : well to slow to replace
> > production?s dedicated platforms.
> 
> That may be a role where Juju could come in, but the more I think about this for needs as modest as my own the more I think there's an opportunity for something far simpler:
> 
> Rather than Docker or Juju or something else that requires a managing process running on the server, a VPS is already "containerized" by virtue of the "V" in "VPS" - so why not use a simple bash script to download the various LiveCode elements, put them into place and set permissions, install any databases desired, config SSH and UFW to reflect how one wants to use the machine.
> 
> Given some time I could write a GUI that can generate such bash scripts, but there's the rub: "given some time". :)
> 
> 
> > did you test an Ubuntu smartphone / tablet ? I?m really curious about
> > this and no far from abandoning Android after iOS for my personal
> > needs if it can work as smoothly on phone as it runs on our laptops
> > and server today ;D
> 
> I've spent several minutes with an Ubuntu phone at the UbuCon Summit here in February.  Very nice implementation, with some bold ideas about what an application is with their "scopes".
> 
> Personally I'm quite immersed in the Android ecosystem, but as a developer my hope is the Linux/ARM LiveCode engine could be outfitted with glue for Qt using LC Builder and then we can add Ubuntu Touch to the mobile deployment platforms.
> 
The problem i see with the technically very reliable Android ecosystem is not related to technics but to privacy? As long as i know, Google and, even, tiers components and software providers grant access to all of our private data. On the other hand, nor Ubuntu or Canonical don?t own my credit card number and i like this.
> 
> >> PS - Note on funky URL formats:  This is my fifth attempt to send
> >> this email to the list....
> >
> > PS : sent this one from mail (El Capitan) without tourbe. Seems to be
> > OK when i use Thunderbird from Ubuntu 14.04 too. Did you report this
> > to David ?
> 
> Heather's recommendation is to send such requests to support AT for best routing, which I've done.
> 
> 
> > PS2: I?m a Debian and Ubuntu fan. Would never roll back anymore to
> > Suse (so fine before being sold to Netware) or RedHat/CentOS?
> 
> Red Hat's been a very generous sponsor of our local Linux user group, and they've had so much success in recent years I certainly have no complaints.  And I admire the design goals of Fedora, and others.
> 
> But like you, I've been rather enamored of Ubuntu, both client and server.  It's popular enough that it no longer feels particularly adventurous to use it - it's no more of a niche these days than choosing Mac or any other non-Windows system.  But ah, the flexibility....
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com




From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar 29 21:18:53 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 01:18:53 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FB155B.7070008@fourthworld.com>
References: <DACBBF34-6F18-4B2A-AE1F-CF068401B16D@earthednet.org>
	<56FB155B.7070008@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fb297c.526fa519.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Chipp's MagicCarpet was useful in its day... then came the lock down: no FTP  in clear text.

That may change soon as I believe we are getting close to solutions for SFTP. There is still a strong use case for passing the baton/binary-stack (ck in, ck out)  style collaboration. I really can't see myself (or anyone?) using script to set colors, gradients, font style etc. to objects run time on preOpenStack to render the GUI.  Eye-candy design team can passing the GUI (binary stack) back and forth, while the code nerd build up the text only platform underneath... how those to production processes would play together is another thing to think about.

Can someone give me the syntax for assigning someScriptOnlyStack.livecode to a childObject as a behavior?

I'll looking at the dictionary in LC 8 dp 16... but nada

what is the equivalent of

set the behavior of tNewGroup to the long id of button "Widget" of card "Behaviors"

where "the long id of button...." points instead to a script only stack?

Oh and.. .this has possibilities as well (from the dict), I didn't know till now that we have this cascading option too:


For example, let's say you have the following setup: field "Action" - behaviour set to button "Derived" button "Derived" - behaviour set to button "Root" button "Root"

Then the message path will be: field "Action" button "Derived" button "Root"


BR


On March 29, 2016 at 1:53:24 PM, Richard Gaskin (ambassador at fourthworld.com<mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com>) wrote:
Chipp Walters, Ken Ray, and others have made check-in/check-out style
tools for many years to handle multi-person team development rather
well. In Gain Momentum (an xTalk I once used made by Sybase) they had a
system like that built in.

From brahma at hindu.org  Tue Mar 29 21:21:22 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 01:21:22 +0000
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FAEADB.1040906@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FAEADB.1040906@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fb2a11.387bf13c.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Yes.. it's the first thing I do if I have a fresh install,


On March 29, 2016 at 10:52:25 AM, Richard Gaskin (ambassador at fourthworld.com<mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com>) wrote:

If you're seeing actual LiveCode property names there you went out of
your way to change that in Prefs.

From paul at livecode.org  Tue Mar 29 21:31:26 2016
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:31:26 -0700
Subject: Deleting a Control in LC8 DP16 in the IDE
In-Reply-To: <3BB3ADD4-691D-41B4-8368-A9EA5C6C0395@earthednet.org>
References: <3BB3ADD4-691D-41B4-8368-A9EA5C6C0395@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <C8B1B074-5650-4CB1-9437-BD822AB20989@livecode.org>

Bill,

There is a ?Trash? icon in the bottom row of tools in the PB, the only downside is it asks for confirmation before deleting, or you can double click the control in the PB, it should be selected if the card is visible, then you can hit delete.

HTH

Paul

> On Mar 29, 2016, at 3:30 PM, William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org> wrote:
> 
> In Version 7, I can delete a control, by selecting the control in the Project Browser, and clicking ?Delete?. This doesn?t happen in LC8 DP16, on OSX. 
> 
> Bug? I can delete it by selecting it on the stage and clicking ?Delete?. I remember something about this mentioned on the list, but can?t find it.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> William Prothero, Ph.D.
> University of California, Santa Barbara, Emeritus
> prothero at earthednet.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Mar 29 21:43:14 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:43:14 -0700
Subject: Deleting a Control in LC8 DP16 in the IDE
In-Reply-To: <C8B1B074-5650-4CB1-9437-BD822AB20989@livecode.org>
References: <3BB3ADD4-691D-41B4-8368-A9EA5C6C0395@earthednet.org>
	<C8B1B074-5650-4CB1-9437-BD822AB20989@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <56FB2F32.2090902@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/29/2016 06:31 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote:
> Bill,
>
> There is a ?Trash? icon in the bottom row of tools in the PB, the only downside is it asks for confirmation before deleting, or you can double click the control in the PB, it should be selected if the card is visible, then you can hit delete.

Yeah, be *very* careful with that, though... I have several times now 
deleted the wrong control thinking that it was selected just because it 
was highlighted. Er... hilited. Anyway, there's no "undo" option, so 
save your work before attempting this.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mkoob at rogers.com  Tue Mar 29 21:13:08 2016
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Phil

I added that to the .htaccess file and same result.  My site had been
running on 4.6.4 using a similar thing David had set up on Tio.

If I comment out the following lines the page will load without errors.


/*
	# general details
	put gSESSION["userId"] into tVars[1]
	put $_POST["acFName"] into tVars[2]
	put $_POST["acLName"] into tVars[3]
	put $_POST["acEmail"] into tVars[4]

	if $_POST["acNews"] = "Y" then
		put "Y" into tVars[5]
	else
		put "N" into tVars[5]
	end if

	put $_POST["acPass1"] into tVars[6]

*/

any idea what is wrong there?  I thought maybe numbered array elements were
the problem. I changed tVars[6] to tVars["6"] but still got the LiveCode
error messages instead of the page loading.

Martin






--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-legacy-on-rev-site-tripped-up-on-new-LiveCode-hosting-service-tp4702748p4702759.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Tue Mar 29 21:59:53 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:59:53 -0700
Subject: Deleting a Control in LC8 DP16 in the IDE
In-Reply-To: <56FB2F32.2090902@ahsoftware.net>
References: <3BB3ADD4-691D-41B4-8368-A9EA5C6C0395@earthednet.org>
	<C8B1B074-5650-4CB1-9437-BD822AB20989@livecode.org>
	<56FB2F32.2090902@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <78ECD845-CCB7-4088-AD0D-4AC33631D88D@earthednet.org>

Arrrggghhh! I knew about the trash can, but forgot it. Dang! In my process, I accidentally deleted a group and I thought it was just going to disappear from the card it was on, and it deleted the entire group. Fortunately, I?m just playing with the UI controls, etc, and it was quickly fixed, but ??

Just trying to get used to the new IDE. There are some things I really like, though. I think the next DP will be focussing on the IDE, which badly needs a thorough run-through to get rid of those pesky idiosyncrasies.

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 29, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> On 03/29/2016 06:31 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote:
>> Bill,
>> 
>> There is a ?Trash? icon in the bottom row of tools in the PB, the only downside is it asks for confirmation before deleting, or you can double click the control in the PB, it should be selected if the card is visible, then you can hit delete.
> 
> Yeah, be *very* careful with that, though... I have several times now deleted the wrong control thinking that it was selected just because it was highlighted. Er... hilited. Anyway, there's no "undo" option, so save your work before attempting this.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From revdev at pdslabs.net  Tue Mar 29 22:30:12 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 19:30:12 -0700
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net> <1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56FB3A34.2090809@pdslabs.net>

Martin,

What kinds of errors do you get?

If $_POST truly isn't handled as an array by LCS 7.1.0, that might 
explain the problems with your code below... except that you said it 
also happens with 6.6.2.

You could write a test log file as your code goes through its process. I 
do that all the time - it's the only way I can tell what really happens.

Phil


On 3/29/16 6:13 PM, Martin Koob wrote:
> Hi Phil
>
> I added that to the .htaccess file and same result.  My site had been
> running on 4.6.4 using a similar thing David had set up on Tio.
>
> If I comment out the following lines the page will load without errors.
>
>
> /*
> 	# general details
> 	put gSESSION["userId"] into tVars[1]
> 	put $_POST["acFName"] into tVars[2]
> 	put $_POST["acLName"] into tVars[3]
> 	put $_POST["acEmail"] into tVars[4]
>
> 	if $_POST["acNews"] = "Y" then
> 		put "Y" into tVars[5]
> 	else
> 		put "N" into tVars[5]
> 	end if
>
> 	put $_POST["acPass1"] into tVars[6]
>
> */
>
> any idea what is wrong there?  I thought maybe numbered array elements were
> the problem. I changed tVars[6] to tVars["6"] but still got the LiveCode
> error messages instead of the page loading.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-legacy-on-rev-site-tripped-up-on-new-LiveCode-hosting-service-tp4702748p4702759.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From mkoob at rogers.com  Tue Mar 29 22:16:34 2016
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 19:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <56FB3A34.2090809@pdslabs.net>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net>
	<1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB3A34.2090809@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <1459304194940-4702763.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Phil

The errors are

  row 160, col 2: script: parsing error (9)
  row 160, col 2: Function: error in source expression (tVars)
  row 160, col 2: do: can't find command (tVars)
  row 160, col 2: request: error in keyword expression (tVars)
  row 9, col 1: script: parsing error
  row 9, col 1: Handler: error in statement (includeLib)
file "/home/martin/public_html/../config.irev"
  row 8, col 1: Handler: can't find handler (includeLib)
file "/home/martin/public_htm/lib/session.irev"
  row 9, col 1: Handler: error in statement (includeLib)
file "/home/martin/public_html/lib/user.irev"
  row 5, col 1: Handler: can't find handler (includeLib)

martin



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-legacy-on-rev-site-tripped-up-on-new-LiveCode-hosting-service-tp4702748p4702763.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Mar 29 23:09:56 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:09:56 -0500
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FB4384.8000906@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/29/2016 3:36 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> Right you can turn on the English "meanings" of the property labels.
> Downside is: this doesn't help you later if you want to touch props
> by script. So I've left them to their native names so I would learn
> them that way.

In either mode, you can hover over the label in the property inspector 
and the tooltip displays the alternate term.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From revdev at pdslabs.net  Tue Mar 29 23:15:06 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 20:15:06 -0700
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <1459304194940-4702763.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net> <1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB3A34.2090809@pdslabs.net>
	<1459304194940-4702763.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56FB44BA.3020608@pdslabs.net>

Well... you have proper errors all right!

Are there any stacks involved that might be saved with a later 
stackFileVersion than is recognized by... no, wait. The 7.1.0 engine 
would recognize all released stackFileVersions....

Are you at liberty to show us the code? We will need to connect error 
messages with offending lines of code before we can make progress, I'm 
afraid.

Thanks -
Phil



On 3/29/16 7:16 PM, Martin Koob wrote:
> Hi Phil
>
> The errors are
>
>    row 160, col 2: script: parsing error (9)
>    row 160, col 2: Function: error in source expression (tVars)
>    row 160, col 2: do: can't find command (tVars)
>    row 160, col 2: request: error in keyword expression (tVars)
>    row 9, col 1: script: parsing error
>    row 9, col 1: Handler: error in statement (includeLib)
> file "/home/martin/public_html/../config.irev"
>    row 8, col 1: Handler: can't find handler (includeLib)
> file "/home/martin/public_htm/lib/session.irev"
>    row 9, col 1: Handler: error in statement (includeLib)
> file "/home/martin/public_html/lib/user.irev"
>    row 5, col 1: Handler: can't find handler (includeLib)
>
> martin
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-legacy-on-rev-site-tripped-up-on-new-LiveCode-hosting-service-tp4702748p4702763.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From bonnmike at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 23:35:09 2016
From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:35:09 -0600
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <56FB44BA.3020608@pdslabs.net>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net>
	<1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB3A34.2090809@pdslabs.net>
	<1459304194940-4702763.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB44BA.3020608@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CAG1cpSpXtL55wNozee=6AgtRjJ7ic4SzUUnFPCLD5p83B7NTCA@mail.gmail.com>

It looks like your files have at least 1 .irev extension in use. Is your
main file an .irev?  If so, the server defaults to version 3.5.0

Using the .lc extension is 7.1.0 (on diesel, moved to liquidnet)

If you know your setup works with 4.6.4 (assuming it got moved to liquidnet
too)
can you do this..

AddHandler livecode-server .irev
    Action livecode-server /cgi-bin/livecode-server-4.6.4

Might need to use the .lc extension too depending on how you have things
set up.  And if you're mixing .lc and then including .irev files, I can see
all kinds of funky things happening.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 9:15 PM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:

> Well... you have proper errors all right!
>
> Are there any stacks involved that might be saved with a later
> stackFileVersion than is recognized by... no, wait. The 7.1.0 engine would
> recognize all released stackFileVersions....
>
> Are you at liberty to show us the code? We will need to connect error
> messages with offending lines of code before we can make progress, I'm
> afraid.
>
> Thanks -
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> On 3/29/16 7:16 PM, Martin Koob wrote:
>
>> Hi Phil
>>
>> The errors are
>>
>>    row 160, col 2: script: parsing error (9)
>>    row 160, col 2: Function: error in source expression (tVars)
>>    row 160, col 2: do: can't find command (tVars)
>>    row 160, col 2: request: error in keyword expression (tVars)
>>    row 9, col 1: script: parsing error
>>    row 9, col 1: Handler: error in statement (includeLib)
>> file "/home/martin/public_html/../config.irev"
>>    row 8, col 1: Handler: can't find handler (includeLib)
>> file "/home/martin/public_htm/lib/session.irev"
>>    row 9, col 1: Handler: error in statement (includeLib)
>> file "/home/martin/public_html/lib/user.irev"
>>    row 5, col 1: Handler: can't find handler (includeLib)
>>
>> martin
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-legacy-on-rev-site-tripped-up-on-new-LiveCode-hosting-service-tp4702748p4702763.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
> --
> Phil Davis
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 23:37:46 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 20:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi, 

Glad you liked. :-D

The following step by step recipe works fine
to mask an image with another transparent png image,
unlike the previous script that works only with
an image and a vector graphic.

1) create a new stack and import an image 

2) import a PNG image with transparency,
to mask the first image.
You could use PNGs similar to these:
http://photoshop-kopona.com/55559-free-set-of-spring-masks-png-for-photo-design-29-png-frame-masks-free-download.html

Remember: import a png with transparency, 
not a black and white png.

3) in this same stack, (that only have two images: 
an image and a transparent png image) 
create a button and set the script of this button 
to this: 


on mouseUp

   set the locklocation of img 1 to true
   import snapshot from img 1
   set the loc of last img to the loc of img 1
   delete img 1
   -- after deleting img 1, img 2 becomes img 1 
  
   crop img 2 to the rect of img 1

   set the width of img 1 to the width of img 2
   set the height of img 1 to the height of img 2
   
   set the alphadata of image 2 to the alphadata of image 1

end mouseUp

Have a nice day! :-)

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702767.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 30 00:15:53 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:15:53 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FB4384.8000906@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FB4384.8000906@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56FB52F9.4050809@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/29/2016 08:09 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> In either mode, you can hover over the label in the property inspector
> and the tooltip displays the alternate term.

...but only for property inspector items that actually have tooltips.
And Richard Gaskin has pointed out that if you need tooltips then the UI 
isn't designed correctly.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 30 00:18:05 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:18:05 -0700
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <CAG1cpSpXtL55wNozee=6AgtRjJ7ic4SzUUnFPCLD5p83B7NTCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net> <1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB3A34.2090809@pdslabs.net>
	<1459304194940-4702763.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB44BA.3020608@pdslabs.net>
	<CAG1cpSpXtL55wNozee=6AgtRjJ7ic4SzUUnFPCLD5p83B7NTCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FB537D.6050009@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/29/2016 08:35 PM, Mike Bonner wrote:

> And if you're mixing .lc and then including .irev files, I can see
> all kinds of funky things happening.

Yeah... um... from experience that doesn't work.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 00:34:40 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:34:40 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FB52F9.4050809@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56FB52F9.4050809@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56FB5760.3070909@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

 > On 03/29/2016 08:09 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >
 >> In either mode, you can hover over the label in the property
 >> inspector and the tooltip displays the alternate term.
 >
 > ...but only for property inspector items that actually have tooltips.
 > And Richard Gaskin has pointed out that if you need tooltips then the
 > UI isn't designed correctly.

In all fairness, I was referring to my own work, and IIRC I also 
excluded complex productivity apps.

What other people do is up to them.

I almost never see tooltips in any app since it rarely occurs to me to 
slow down what I'm doing to hover my mouse to find out whether or not 
the designer has written a hidden description there.  I usually just 
click it and see what happens.  If the action that happens is a 
destructive one THEN it wasn't designed correctly. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com        http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar 30 00:41:23 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 23:41:23 -0500
Subject: Deleting a Control in LC8 DP16 in the IDE
In-Reply-To: <56FB2F32.2090902@ahsoftware.net>
References: <3BB3ADD4-691D-41B4-8368-A9EA5C6C0395@earthednet.org>
	<C8B1B074-5650-4CB1-9437-BD822AB20989@livecode.org>
	<56FB2F32.2090902@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56FB58F3.7080105@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/29/2016 8:43 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 03/29/2016 06:31 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote:
>> Bill,
>>
>> There is a ?Trash? icon in the bottom row of tools in the PB, the only
>> downside is it asks for confirmation before deleting, or you can
>> double click the control in the PB, it should be selected if the card
>> is visible, then you can hit delete.
>
> Yeah, be *very* careful with that, though... I have several times now
> deleted the wrong control thinking that it was selected just because it
> was highlighted. Er... hilited. Anyway, there's no "undo" option, so
> save your work before attempting this.
>

The hiliting in the PB is confusing and it's hard to tell what you will 
be operating on. I would like to see all selected objects hilited the 
same way and the dotted outlines eliminated entirely. It's far too easy 
to ruin a stack because of the current confusion.

To distingush between objects on the current card of the topstack and 
objects elsewhere, I have two ideas:

Method 1: Have the non-current objects hilited in light gray and have 
the current ones in the topstack hilited in the normal hilite color. The 
color difference provides a visual indication that you will be operating 
on objects in disparate locations. But regardless of the hilite color or 
object location, all the hilited objects should respond to the user's 
edits or deletions whenever possible.

Method 2: Hilite all objects, regardless of location, with the same 
hilite color. If an action is specified that isn't appropriate for 
disparate objects, either operate only on the current card, or put up a 
dialog explaining why the operation can't be completed. Or both -- put 
up a dialog asking if the user wants to operate on only the current card.

I think this is important. I have never seen two types of selections 
anywhere else and the meaning is not intuitive. Users will expect all 
selected objects to respond to any action whenever possible and they 
won't know how to distinguish between the types. Even with documentation 
(which few really read) the meaning of the outlined selections is 
confusing and hard to remember.

For alignments, the icons at the bottom should probably be disabled if 
all the selected objects aren't on the same card. Alternately, put up a 
dialog that explains why the action can't be completed and ask if it 
should be applied only to the current card. The same for the group icon, 
which should be disabled (or dialoged) if all selections aren't on the 
same card. There may be others that need special treatment. For example, 
the Delete icon should probably include a warning about deleting 
non-current objects if any are selected, and provide a way to cancel out.

The main idea here is to treat all types of object selections similarly 
and not force the user to remember and distinguish between types. Even 
after you know how it is supposed to work, the non-standard behavior 
still induces errors. We are creatures of habit.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar 30 00:50:30 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 04:50:30 +0000
Subject: Using Behaviors for Triggering UI Design - Run Time
Message-ID: <etPan.56fb5b14.93ee3f3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>

?
This goes to the architecture discussion, but more to implemetation best practices/methods, and not organization.

Let's say we have a series of fields that have just a few words of text in them we want to center vertically. Text varies. Our designers may want to change the words over time. ?I don't want to have to go in and manually adjust the top and bottom margins to achieve the position.

So then this is were dynamic runtime GUI layout/typesetting may be the way to go. Once the UI is all finished one could turn it off because the properties would be set for the fields.

We could create a behavior (ideally an external.livecodescript text file) with this in it  

command centerTextVertically
put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins
set topmargin of me to tTopBottomMargins
end centerTextVertically

put the long ID of the button that contains that into the field; then make multiple copies of that field place them on the UI.

1) ?When, how and what is the most efficient way...to trigger this? ?in a preopenstack or preopencard handler? so that the UI fields are all centered when the card renders? ?

But then it needs to be a behavior of the stack or card, but then the reference to "me" fails to target the fields which all have the same name.

2) Still waiting on how to set a behavior to an external.livecodescript. Dictionary only descripts the long id of a button method.

BR




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar 30 00:51:04 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 23:51:04 -0500
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FB52F9.4050809@ahsoftware.net>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FB4384.8000906@hyperactivesw.com> <56FB52F9.4050809@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <56FB5B38.5060409@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/29/2016 11:15 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> And Richard Gaskin has pointed out that if you need tooltips then the UI
> isn't designed correctly.

I agree, but in this case there are two versions of each label and I 
can't think of any other way to show both on demand.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From mkoob at rogers.com  Wed Mar 30 00:25:04 2016
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:25:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <56FB537D.6050009@ahsoftware.net>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net>
	<1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB3A34.2090809@pdslabs.net>
	<1459304194940-4702763.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB44BA.3020608@pdslabs.net>
	<CAG1cpSpXtL55wNozee=6AgtRjJ7ic4SzUUnFPCLD5p83B7NTCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FB537D.6050009@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <1459311904903-4702774.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi

Thanks everyone for their comments.

I managed to get it working.  There were a number of issues with
incompatibilities of LC server 4.6.4 scripts with the LiveCode 6.2.6 engine. 
With some help from Monte I managed to find and resolve the following
issues.
-one is that there was a global scope and with the same name as variables in
several functions. 
- another problem was with reserved words that were not reserved in 4.6.4
like SESSION REQUEST which were used as variables and sha1Digest which was a
function.  I was using a Mark Smith library awsbincrypt.irev that had a
sha1Digest functions, I commented out that function.
- the other thing was that files that were referenced with just the file
name were not being found as they were not in the same directory.   I had to
change 
include "MyFile.irev" 
to 
include "../template/MyFile.irev"
Not sure how this worked before in 4.6.4.

Using the extension .irev does not seem to be a problem.

I had used the what Mike had suggested on the old Tio server

    AddHandler livecode-server .irev 
    Action livecode-server /cgi-bin/livecode-server-4.6.4 

but on the new server that no longer worked.

Hopefully I have found all of the incompatabilities.

Thanks again.

Martin




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-legacy-on-rev-site-tripped-up-on-new-LiveCode-hosting-service-tp4702748p4702774.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar 30 01:03:00 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 00:03:00 -0500
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <507B5752-6ACC-4E89-B474-2D367DC5BEB4@tactilemedia.com>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com> <56FAE845.1040708@ahsoftware.net>
	<D32048A5.7E0CA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<153c4a2b598.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56FB118F.8040207@ahsoftware.net>
	<507B5752-6ACC-4E89-B474-2D367DC5BEB4@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <56FB5E04.2020302@hyperactivesw.com>

I am wide-eyed at the breadth of the suggestion that we could affect 
that multidimensional company, FourthWidth.

On 3/29/2016 7:50 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> This pointless bickering needs to end fourthwidth.
>
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media UX/UI Design
>
>> On Mar 29, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/29/2016 04:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>> Well if that isn't the height of snobbery.
>>
>> The depth of your replies always charges me up.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftware at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 30 01:05:28 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:05:28 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FB5760.3070909@fourthworld.com>
References: <56FB52F9.4050809@ahsoftware.net>
	<56FB5760.3070909@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56FB5E98.6020503@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/29/2016 09:34 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> In all fairness, I was referring to my own work, and IIRC I also
> excluded complex productivity apps.

My bad, I misremembered where that came from.

> What other people do is up to them.
>
> I usually just
> click it and see what happens.  If the action that happens is a
> destructive one THEN it wasn't designed correctly. :)

Heh.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 30 01:06:39 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:06:39 -0700
Subject: Border color of graphic
In-Reply-To: <56FB5B38.5060409@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <2398E0E6-29D1-4005-8D70-372A6427C354@livecode.org>
	<56FAD300.8090709@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fae760.4c9ba6db.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FB4384.8000906@hyperactivesw.com> <56FB52F9.4050809@ahsoftware.net>
	<56FB5B38.5060409@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56FB5EDF.6080902@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/29/2016 09:51 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I agree, but in this case there are two versions of each label and I
> can't think of any other way to show both on demand.
>

Yes, I should have put a snarky emoji in there.
I do rely on tooltips.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar 30 02:03:46 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 17:03:46 +1100
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fad703.39593034.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F9FAA7.7040104@fourthworld.com>
	<8E195D92-0C9C-4EA4-962A-E3301383D222@appisle.net>
	<etPan.56fad703.39593034.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <EFC62955-5124-40C0-9B1C-3E2821E60AFC@appisle.net>


> On 30 Mar 2016, at 6:26 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org <mailto:brahma at hindu.org>> wrote:
> 
> @ Mark, Monte, Peter (brett)  if you are inspired   -- a tutorial on "building an app from scratch, using the script-only modular approach to the max."  as a video tutorial or something would be fantastic?


I?m not officially on the team yet so please take anything I say about what I think the team should be doing with a pinch of salt. Having said that I think it would be reasonably beneficial for the team to develop and maintain a number of apps that could be the basis of tutorials, blog posts and maybe even diversify revenue if done right (probably shouldn?t be a major goal). The reason being is engine & IDE development <> app development. The concept needs a thorough cost benefit analysis done on it though to work out if it should be prioritised over the many thousands of other things that need doing. It would really need to be a long term strategy uniting marketing, documentation and testing of the IDE and engine if it were to be worthwhile.

Cheers

Monte



From james at thehales.id.au  Wed Mar 30 04:03:02 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:03:02 +1100
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
Message-ID: <B613BD15-CF86-4470-8EB1-AFD18F1500A8@thehales.id.au>

> what is the equivalent of
> 
> set the behavior of tNewGroup to the long id of button "Widget" of card "Behaviors"
> 
> where "the long id of button...." points instead to a script only stack?

I think it is simply...
     set the behavior of tNewGroup to stack "myScriptOnlyStack"

If you check some of the IDE scripts in GitHub you should find some examples.






From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Mon Mar 28 15:52:01 2016
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 21:52:01 +0200
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
Message-ID: <56F98B61.1010503@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

Another contribution to this thread from the past.


<www.metaworx.net/MoreAboutMasksRev3.zip> and

<www.metaworx.net/DynamicImageButtons.zip>


Stacks from 2009:

The first one is a result of a longer discussion and experimentation with Bernd Niggemann showing different approaches to create and use masks, the second is a short example stack demonstrating round-corner-buttons whose labels can be dynamically changed by script during runtime.


Kind regards,


Wilhelm Sanke


---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Mar 30 06:02:32 2016
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:02:32 +0200
Subject: LC 8.0 DP16  Failed to load external
Message-ID: <012801d18a6b$470308d0$d5091a70$@kestner.de>

Hello,

after a long break I am testing LC 8.0 DP16, because I wanted to answer the
latest LC survey, if I still need LC 6

I am using two externals, which work in the IDE. For building the
standalone, these externals are selected in the standalone settings under
"script libraries" and the externals are in a folder "Externals", which
resides in the standalone directory.

When starting the standalone I get an "Initialization Error - failed to load
external". After OK the startup quits. No information, which external
couldn't be loaded.

With LC 6.7.8 and 7.1.1 the standalone is loaded without error and works.

Has there something been changed with loading externals in 8.0? Any idea
what is going wrong here, or what I could check for?

Thanks for any ideas

Tiemo

 

 

 

 



From monte at appisle.net  Wed Mar 30 06:11:43 2016
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:11:43 +1100
Subject: LC 8.0 DP16  Failed to load external
In-Reply-To: <012801d18a6b$470308d0$d5091a70$@kestner.de>
References: <012801d18a6b$470308d0$d5091a70$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <E198FE16-E38A-4D0F-8A1C-D018F803CD8B@appisle.net>

For standalone builder support you need to add externals to the runtime folder for each platform. The standalone builder won?t pull the external from the externals folder. 

http://lessons.livecode.com/s/lessons/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-externals-for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder <http://lessons.livecode.com/s/lessons/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-externals-for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder>

> On 30 Mar 2016, at 9:02 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> after a long break I am testing LC 8.0 DP16, because I wanted to answer the
> latest LC survey, if I still need LC 6
> 
> I am using two externals, which work in the IDE. For building the
> standalone, these externals are selected in the standalone settings under
> "script libraries" and the externals are in a folder "Externals", which
> resides in the standalone directory.
> 
> When starting the standalone I get an "Initialization Error - failed to load
> external". After OK the startup quits. No information, which external
> couldn't be loaded.
> 
> With LC 6.7.8 and 7.1.1 the standalone is loaded without error and works.
> 
> Has there something been changed with loading externals in 8.0? Any idea
> what is going wrong here, or what I could check for?
> 
> Thanks for any ideas
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Mar 30 07:00:50 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 04:00:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>

if you want to get round corners on an image, that does not make use of
alphaData, like jpg or png without alpha you can round the corners by
setting the alphaData as Alejandro has shown.

here is an example of setting the alphaData of an image to get round corners
on the fly

--------------------------------------------
on mouseUp
   lock screen
   put "iLittle" into tImgName -- change to the name of your image
   put "gRoundRect3" into tGrcName
   if not (there is a grc tGrcName) then
      reset the templateGraphic
      set the style of the templateGraphic to "roundRect"
      set the roundRadius of the templateGraphic to "30" -- change radius
here
      set the lineSize of the templateGraphic to 5 -- change border here
      set the opaque of the templateGraphic to true
      set the visible of the templateGraphic to true
      create grc tGrcName
      reset the templateGraphic
   end if
   set the rect of grc tGrcName to the rect of image tImgName -- just to get
dimensions right
   export snapshot from grc tGrcName to tImg as png
   create image "tempImg"
   set the text of image "tempImg" to tImg
   set the alphaData of image tImgName to the alphaData of img "tempImg"
   delete image "tempImg"
   delete grc tGrcName
   unlock screen
end mouseUp
-----------------------------------------------

to get rid of the round corners you can set the alphaData to be fully
transparent, thus restoring the original image

----------------------------------------------
on mouseUp
   put "iLittle" into tImgName -- change to name of your image
   put the width of image tImgName into tWidth
   put the height of image tImgName into tHeight
   put numToByte(255) into tTransparent
   repeat tWidth
      put tTransparent after tAlphaRow
   end repeat
   repeat tHeight
      put tAlphaRow after tAlpha
   end repeat
   set the alphaData of image "iLittle" to tAlpha
end mouseUp
--------------------------------------------

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702783.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Mar 30 08:13:08 2016
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:13:08 +0200
Subject: AW: LC 8.0 DP16  Failed to load external
In-Reply-To: <E198FE16-E38A-4D0F-8A1C-D018F803CD8B@appisle.net>
References: <012801d18a6b$470308d0$d5091a70$@kestner.de>
	<E198FE16-E38A-4D0F-8A1C-D018F803CD8B@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <013701d18a7d$87a0c320$96e24960$@kestner.de>

Yes, I know.
I am developing on a windows 64 Bit machine.
The externals and the externals.txt are located at: C:\Users\<myUser>\Documents\My LiveCode\Runtime\Windows\x86-32\Externals
The files& memory\user extensions preference is: C:\Users\<myUser>\Documents\My LiveCode
Up to LC 6.7.8 this option worked for the IDE and the runtime
>From LC 7 on (I have to correct me, it failed already with LC 7, not only from LC 8 on) the same options work for the IDE, but not anymore for the runtime. "failed to load external"
When trying to put the full path " C:\Users\<myUser>\Documents\My LiveCode\Runtime\Windows\x86-32\Externals" into the files& memory\user extensions preference, the externaly are not even loaded in the IDE. I also tried to add a folder " x86-64\Externals" with no different result.

Any other idea, what could have been changed between LC 6 and 7/8?
Tiemo


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Monte Goulding
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. M?rz 2016 12:12
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Betreff: Re: LC 8.0 DP16 Failed to load external

For standalone builder support you need to add externals to the runtime folder for each platform. The standalone builder won?t pull the external from the externals folder. 

http://lessons.livecode.com/s/lessons/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-externals-for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder <http://lessons.livecode.com/s/lessons/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-externals-for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder>

> On 30 Mar 2016, at 9:02 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> after a long break I am testing LC 8.0 DP16, because I wanted to 
> answer the latest LC survey, if I still need LC 6
> 
> I am using two externals, which work in the IDE. For building the 
> standalone, these externals are selected in the standalone settings 
> under "script libraries" and the externals are in a folder 
> "Externals", which resides in the standalone directory.
> 
> When starting the standalone I get an "Initialization Error - failed 
> to load external". After OK the startup quits. No information, which 
> external couldn't be loaded.
> 
> With LC 6.7.8 and 7.1.1 the standalone is loaded without error and works.
> 
> Has there something been changed with loading externals in 8.0? Any 
> idea what is going wrong here, or what I could check for?
> 
> Thanks for any ideas
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Mar 30 09:44:41 2016
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:44:41 +0200
Subject: Are there any cumulative release notes?
Message-ID: <015501d18a8a$513283c0$f3978b40$@kestner.de>

Hello,

I have this "failed to load external" failure and am searching, what might
have changed between LC 6 and 7/8, because all settings are the same between
my versions, but with LC 7/8 I can't load my externals anymore.

I am sure there must have been changed something very obvious, what I don't
see. I started to read the release notes, but that is pretty cumbersome to
read every single DP release note from 6.7. upward to look for a relevant
change on handling externals and I don't even have all intermediate version
installed.

Are there any kind of "cumulative release notes" or a better approach to
look for the source of my problem.

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 09:53:42 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 06:53:42 -0700
Subject: Using Behaviors for Triggering UI Design - Run Time
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fb5b14.93ee3f3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fb5b14.93ee3f3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FBDA66.1070101@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
 > Let's say we have a series of fields that have just a few words of
 > text in them we want to center vertically. Text varies. Our designers
 > may want to change the words over time.  I don't want to have to go
 > in and manually adjust the top and bottom margins to achieve the
 > position.
 >
 > So then this is were dynamic runtime GUI layout/typesetting may be
 > the way to go. Once the UI is all finished one could turn it off
 > because the properties would be set for the fields.
 >
 > We could create a behavior (ideally an external.livecodescript text
 > file) with this in it
 >
 > command centerTextVertically
 > put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
 > put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins
 > set topmargin of me to tTopBottomMargins
 > end centerTextVertically
 >
 > put the long ID of the button that contains that into the field; then
 > make multiple copies of that field place them on the UI.
 >
 > 1)  When, how and what is the most efficient way...to trigger this?
 > in a preopenstack or preopencard handler? so that the UI fields are
 > all centered when the card renders?
 >
 > But then it needs to be a behavior of the stack or card, but then the
 > reference to "me" fails to target the fields which all have the same
 > name.

If it makes sense to put those fields into a group you can use 
preOpenControl.


 > 2) Still waiting on how to set a behavior to an
 > external.livecodescript. Dictionary only descripts the long id of a
 > button method.

Behaviors can be either buttons or stacks, and the stacks need not be 
script-only.

When setting any behavior the syntax is:

   set the behavior of <obj> to <absoluteObjReference>

...where <absoluteObjReference> is usually the long ID of a button, but 
can be any unambiguous object reference.

FWIW you can use "the long id" for any object, even stacks.

In all cases, once set a behavior is resolved to a "rugged long ID", a 
long ID where the stack portion is changed from the full file path as we 
normally find it to just the stack name, allowing portability.

For example:

    button id 1004 of cd id 1003 of stack "/home/rg/something/rsrc.livecode"

...becomes:

    button id of cd id 1003 of stack "rsrc"


So when using a stack as a behavior you can write:

    set the behavior of btn "Something" to the long id of stack "rsrc"

...or even more simply, since stack names are already unique:

    set the behavior of btn "Something" to the name of stack "rsrc"


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From james at thehales.id.au  Wed Mar 30 09:54:37 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 06:54:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <1459151543969-4702702.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<D31DF46A.7DF01%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<1459151543969-4702702.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459346077204-4702787.post@n4.nabble.com>

So everything worked out and I was able to resize all images as needed to fit
within the bounds of the field they were displayed in.

The script I used was:


a couple of things of interest.
importing paint does not fail helpfully. Sometimes you get an error,
sometimes nothing, but if it does fail the handler exits
I am on a Mac hence my filtering out of the .DStore.
You may note I did have a "Delete image thefile" line.
I thought this would delete the image I had just manipulated.
Yes and no.
In my test stack it did, in my production stack it didn't.
In fact with a folder of 60 jpegs it left 16 still on the card.
Hence the repeat loop, which looking at it now could simply be "repeat for
each" rather than use a count.
This is also why I go to another card that is otherwise empty.
Anyway, 60 images in around 3 secs, cool.




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IMG-resize-advice-wanted-tp4702682p4702787.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From revolution at derbrill.de  Wed Mar 30 10:27:40 2016
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Pfaff-Brill)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:27:40 +0200
Subject: Should before [handler name] trigger when using send?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1459332002.30162.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1459332002.30162.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FCD6763F-120A-42B4-B093-B3876EB076E1@derbrill.de>

Hi all,

before I file a bug on this, I would like to enquire about your opinion.

If in a behavior you have

before resizeControl
 ? do some stuff
end resizeControl

should this trigger if you send resizeControl to the control from somewhere else?

If yes, it does not seem to work in a standalone (but does not trigger an error in the IDE). In the standalone it throws a can?t find handler error?

What would you expect to be the correct behavior in this case?

Cheers,

Malte




From paul at researchware.com  Wed Mar 30 11:02:40 2016
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 11:02:40 -0400
Subject: Should before [handler name] trigger when using send?
In-Reply-To: <FCD6763F-120A-42B4-B093-B3876EB076E1@derbrill.de>
References: <mailman.1.1459332002.30162.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<FCD6763F-120A-42B4-B093-B3876EB076E1@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <56FBEA90.50605@researchware.com>

On 3/30/2016 10:27 AM, Malte Pfaff-Brill wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> before I file a bug on this, I would like to enquire about your opinion.
>
> If in a behavior you have
>
> before resizeControl
>  ? do some stuff
> end resizeControl
>
> should this trigger if you send resizeControl to the control from somewhere else?
>
> If yes, it does not seem to work in a standalone (but does not trigger an error in the IDE). In the standalone it throws a can?t find handler error?
>
> What would you expect to be the correct behavior in this case?

A tough question! I personally have rarely used before/after handlers,
but I do use send and dispatch frequently. My expectation when I execute
a send <message> to <object> is  that if there is a handler for
<message> in <object> then that message should execute as normal and if
there is NO handler for <message>, then <message> should be passed along
the message hierarchy as documented ending with the engine itself.

Based on that, I would expect that if there is a before OR after
<message> handler in <object> they should execute because they would if
the message was passed from above to <object> or generated for <object>
by a user event.

An argument could be made that a before handler SHOULD NOT execute, but
an after handler SHOULD since the message was sent directly to the
object (i.e. skipping the normal path and hence the before handler.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 11:05:00 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:05:00 -0700
Subject: Are there any cumulative release notes?
In-Reply-To: <015501d18a8a$513283c0$f3978b40$@kestner.de>
References: <015501d18a8a$513283c0$f3978b40$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <56FBEB1C.6040704@fourthworld.com>

Tiemo Hollmann wrote:

 > I have this "failed to load external" failure and am searching, what
 > might have changed between LC 6 and 7/8, because all settings are the
 > same between my versions, but with LC 7/8 I can't load my externals
 > anymore.
 >
 > I am sure there must have been changed something very obvious, what I
 > don't see. I started to read the release notes, but that is pretty
 > cumbersome to read every single DP release note from 6.7. upward to
 > look for a relevant change on handling externals and I don't even
 > have all intermediate version installed.
 >
 > Are there any kind of "cumulative release notes" or a better approach
 > to look for the source of my problem.

In general the Release Notes for a given feature version (X.X, as 
opposed to what is usually a bug-fix-only version X.X.X) will include 
all aggregate notes from earlier builds in that series.

For example, the Release Notes for the latest Stable release, 7.1.3, 
include changes going back to 7.1.0 (see the "Specific bug fixes" 
section at the bottom of each Release Notes PDF).

I believe this aggregation by feature version strikes a practical 
balance between requiring too many Release Notes and having Release 
Notes too cumbersomely long to be read.  After all, if they were 
aggregated with previous feature releases where would the relevant 
cutoff be?  The document could become as large as the install itself.

In your case, since the issue is evident in both v7 and v8 you may not 
need to review v8 Release Notes at all.  And since there have been only 
two significant releases of v7 (7.0 and 7.1) you should only need to 
review the Release Notes for the latest build of each:

<http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/7_0_6/LiveCodeNotes-7_0_6.pdf>
<http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/7_1_3/LiveCodeNotes-7_1_3.pdf>

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 11:17:17 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:17:17 -0700
Subject: Should before [handler name] trigger when using send?
In-Reply-To: <56FBEA90.50605@researchware.com>
References: <56FBEA90.50605@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <56FBEDFD.1000007@fourthworld.com>

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> An argument could be made that a before handler SHOULD NOT execute, but
> an after handler SHOULD since the message was sent directly to the
> object (i.e. skipping the normal path and hence the before handler.

I believe an argument could be made in the other direction as well, that 
all secondary effects of an action should happen whether the action is 
triggered by user interaction or via script.

If I use:

   send "go next" to stack "SomeStack"

...I would expect the preOpenCard and openCard handlers to trigger just 
as naturally as if I'd clicked a button initiating that action.

Personally, it seems most natural that the mechanism for preventing the 
triggering of system messages would remain lockMessages.

But that's my own view.  It'll be interesting to hear Mark Waddingham's.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Wed Mar 30 11:27:31 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:27:31 +0000
Subject: Should before [handler name] trigger when using send?
In-Reply-To: <FCD6763F-120A-42B4-B093-B3876EB076E1@derbrill.de>
References: <mailman.1.1459332002.30162.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
	<FCD6763F-120A-42B4-B093-B3876EB076E1@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1iqVuuxU3STsmMPPZhizDXEPNcEBy4hYog_1uZ4FvAekg@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I think it should work. Is the error saying that the actual `on
resizeControl` handler is not found?

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:27 PM Malte Pfaff-Brill <revolution at derbrill.de>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> before I file a bug on this, I would like to enquire about your opinion.
>
> If in a behavior you have
>
> before resizeControl
>  ? do some stuff
> end resizeControl
>
> should this trigger if you send resizeControl to the control from
> somewhere else?
>
> If yes, it does not seem to work in a standalone (but does not trigger an
> error in the IDE). In the standalone it throws a can?t find handler error?
>
> What would you expect to be the correct behavior in this case?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Malte
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jbv at souslelogo.com  Wed Mar 30 11:28:26 2016
From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 18:28:26 +0300
Subject: Just for the anecdote
Message-ID: <00088c8ef666d99f25490d6f9615a298.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com>

Hello list
We were competing for an app for iOS & Android (with quite a lot of
client/server communication, photo uploads, QR code reading, etc), and
today we learned that we lost the competition and that the client finally
choosed another agency, mainly because they use React framework/library,
which is a "more up-to-date tool than LC" (as we were told)...
I don't have all the details yet, but I was wondering if anyone had
comments about this...
Thanks.
jbv




From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Mar 30 11:05:31 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Should before [handler name] trigger when using send?
In-Reply-To: <FCD6763F-120A-42B4-B093-B3876EB076E1@derbrill.de>
References: <FCD6763F-120A-42B4-B093-B3876EB076E1@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <1459350331821-4702794.post@n4.nabble.com>

Malte Brill wrote
> Hi all,
> 
> before I file a bug on this, I would like to enquire about your opinion.
> 
> If in a behavior you have
> 
> before resizeControl
>  ? do some stuff
> end resizeControl
> 
> should this trigger if you send resizeControl to the control from
> somewhere else?
> 
> If yes, it does not seem to work in a standalone (but does not trigger an
> error in the IDE). In the standalone it throws a can?t find handler error?
> 
> What would you expect to be the correct behavior in this case?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Malte

Hi Malte,

just tested LC8 DP16 in the IDE and a standalone and it works.

I send from a button

on mouseUp
   send "resizeControl" to grc 1
end mouseUp

grc 1 has the script

on resizeControl
   put "resizeControl " && the milliseconds into field "fRes"
end resizeControl

the behavior is

before resizeControl
   beep
end resizeControl

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Should-before-handler-name-trigger-when-using-send-tp4702788p4702794.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Wed Mar 30 11:40:22 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:40:22 +0000
Subject: Using Behaviors for Triggering UI Design - Run Time
In-Reply-To: <56FBDA66.1070101@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fb5b14.93ee3f3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FBDA66.1070101@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1j459_qcMmDai7+gSD_0gXwitkhH6nUb7h=2R9no1sDsQ@mail.gmail.com>

NB the behavior entry in the dictionary has been rewritten and will be
correct in the next release of 8.0. You can check out the raw text of it
here if you want:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/property/behavior.lcdoc

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 2:53 PM Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>  > Let's say we have a series of fields that have just a few words of
>  > text in them we want to center vertically. Text varies. Our designers
>  > may want to change the words over time.  I don't want to have to go
>  > in and manually adjust the top and bottom margins to achieve the
>  > position.
>  >
>  > So then this is were dynamic runtime GUI layout/typesetting may be
>  > the way to go. Once the UI is all finished one could turn it off
>  > because the properties would be set for the fields.
>  >
>  > We could create a behavior (ideally an external.livecodescript text
>  > file) with this in it
>  >
>  > command centerTextVertically
>  > put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
>  > put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins
>  > set topmargin of me to tTopBottomMargins
>  > end centerTextVertically
>  >
>  > put the long ID of the button that contains that into the field; then
>  > make multiple copies of that field place them on the UI.
>  >
>  > 1)  When, how and what is the most efficient way...to trigger this?
>  > in a preopenstack or preopencard handler? so that the UI fields are
>  > all centered when the card renders?
>  >
>  > But then it needs to be a behavior of the stack or card, but then the
>  > reference to "me" fails to target the fields which all have the same
>  > name.
>
> If it makes sense to put those fields into a group you can use
> preOpenControl.
>
>
>  > 2) Still waiting on how to set a behavior to an
>  > external.livecodescript. Dictionary only descripts the long id of a
>  > button method.
>
> Behaviors can be either buttons or stacks, and the stacks need not be
> script-only.
>
> When setting any behavior the syntax is:
>
>    set the behavior of <obj> to <absoluteObjReference>
>
> ...where <absoluteObjReference> is usually the long ID of a button, but
> can be any unambiguous object reference.
>
> FWIW you can use "the long id" for any object, even stacks.
>
> In all cases, once set a behavior is resolved to a "rugged long ID", a
> long ID where the stack portion is changed from the full file path as we
> normally find it to just the stack name, allowing portability.
>
> For example:
>
>     button id 1004 of cd id 1003 of stack
> "/home/rg/something/rsrc.livecode"
>
> ...becomes:
>
>     button id of cd id 1003 of stack "rsrc"
>
>
> So when using a stack as a behavior you can write:
>
>     set the behavior of btn "Something" to the long id of stack "rsrc"
>
> ...or even more simply, since stack names are already unique:
>
>     set the behavior of btn "Something" to the name of stack "rsrc"
>
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 11:55:49 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:55:49 -0700
Subject: Just for the anecdote
In-Reply-To: <00088c8ef666d99f25490d6f9615a298.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com>
References: <00088c8ef666d99f25490d6f9615a298.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com>
Message-ID: <56FBF705.6080109@fourthworld.com>

jbv wrote:

 > We were competing for an app for iOS & Android (with quite a lot of
 > client/server communication, photo uploads, QR code reading, etc),
 > and today we learned that we lost the competition and that the client
 > finally choosed another agency, mainly because they use React
 > framework/library, which is a "more up-to-date tool than LC" (as we
 > were told)...
 > I don't have all the details yet, but I was wondering if anyone had
 > comments about this...

It'll be interesting to learn how they define "up-to-date", but with 
React being developed by Facebook and Instagram it's clear they have 
more development resources.

In terms of time-to-market LC may have an advantage, but that depends on 
the particulars of the app and the degree to which that's a primary 
consideration.

JavaScript is one of the world's most popular languages, and JS engines 
get millions in investment from Apple, Google, and many others to 
continually refine and optimize them.

There are dozens of great languages, and the most popular ones will only 
remain so because of the vast ecosystems behind them, in terms of 
available libraries and developers who know how to use them well.  There 
are probably more people typing JavaScript as I write this than the sum 
of all xTalkers ever.

But new languages continue to show up, and some, like Clojure, take off 
rather nicely.

LiveCode is currently a niche that relatively few appreciate.  Those who 
get it reap the benefits, but no blame to those who don't; they're just 
meeting different criteria.

The best we can do to grow this ecosystem is what we're doing now: 
deliver great software with LiveCode, and let folks know how you did it.

There will always be other languages, and even the gawdfersaken Java 
will probably remain #1 on the TIOBE list for years.

But there's a role for LiveCode to take its place among the world's 
great languages.  And if we just keeping turning out quality software 
with it that'll happen.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com  Wed Mar 30 11:55:05 2016
From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:55:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <1459346077204-4702787.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<D31DF46A.7DF01%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<1459151543969-4702702.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459346077204-4702787.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459353305581-4702797.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Jim.

Nice script! 

I am exploring a project that would have a similar need to embed images in
fields, so I have a couple of questions for you...

1) What method are you using to embed those images in your field? 

2) For smaller images, are you able to inset them within the text and have
text wrap around, such as a small picture inset at the start of a paragraph?
(I've been able to place the image at the start, but not able to get the
paragraph of text to wrap it.)

Thanks,
Tom Bodine



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IMG-resize-advice-wanted-tp4702682p4702797.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From rjb at robelko.com  Wed Mar 30 13:04:24 2016
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:04:24 +0200
Subject: 7.1.3 installer failure
Message-ID: <p06240810d321b68917d2@[192.168.1.94]>

When using 7.1.2, I am getting a prompt to upgrade to 7.1.3. Fine, do 
it, I say. The download completes, then I get error that the image 
failed to mount (this is OSX). When I click retry, apparently wrong 
image is mounted since I get an offer to install 7.1.2 not 7.1.3. If 
I say to proceed, 7.1.2 gets installed for all users without asking 
me where to install.

Has anyone else observed this?

RObert



From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 13:19:21 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 10:19:21 -0700
Subject: line spacing coming in from text pasted from pdf or .doc
Message-ID: <CANQHZSFZ5PnsjLsAkwAy1QXGRTxWa0x4Q4xsdpQpYA32P7LvyA@mail.gmail.com>

I am having a problem when pasting text from pdf and .doc into fields.

There are some properties that I can't find documented in livecode that
survive the paste.

Particularly, I'm seeing line number attributes and line spacing separate
from textHeight survive.

>From pdf, I seem to be able to clear it by setting the text of the
selectedObject to the text of the selectedObject, but this doesn't work for
word.

I see a field with a lineHeight of 21 and textSize of 12 with about 12
points of space above the line, and 12 points below.

It's also not spaceAbove or spaceBelow; those don't clear it either.

-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Wed Mar 30 13:52:22 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 10:52:22 -0700
Subject: line spacing coming in from text pasted from pdf or .doc
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSFZ5PnsjLsAkwAy1QXGRTxWa0x4Q4xsdpQpYA32P7LvyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFZ5PnsjLsAkwAy1QXGRTxWa0x4Q4xsdpQpYA32P7LvyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FC1256.9040606@pdslabs.net>

Hi Richard,

It sounds like you want the pasted text to leave behind any source 
document-based properties and use those of the field you're pasting 
into. Right?

During the paste, have you tried putting the clipboardData["text"] into 
a variable, then putting the variable into the field? (Or set the text 
of the selectedChunk to the variable)  That should get rid of any and 
all text properties. Then if your problem is still there, it's probably 
invisible text characters or some such thing - not text props at least.

That's what I would try.

Phil Davis



On 3/30/16 10:19 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
> I am having a problem when pasting text from pdf and .doc into fields.
>
> There are some properties that I can't find documented in livecode that
> survive the paste.
>
> Particularly, I'm seeing line number attributes and line spacing separate
> from textHeight survive.
>
> >From pdf, I seem to be able to clear it by setting the text of the
> selectedObject to the text of the selectedObject, but this doesn't work for
> word.
>
> I see a field with a lineHeight of 21 and textSize of 12 with about 12
> points of space above the line, and 12 points below.
>
> It's also not spaceAbove or spaceBelow; those don't clear it either.
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 13:27:05 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 10:27:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Bernd,

Your script to restore the original alphadata
is very useful. Many Thanks for sharing! :D

Just noticed that you used: export snapshot
instead of import snapshot
Why? Is import snapshot buggy in some
LiveCode versions?

Alejandro




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702801.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Wed Mar 30 14:14:36 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:14:36 -0400
Subject: LiveCode and Virtual Reality (VR)
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXOtL0zqsk8=NrLzKntt1khvQtSpN9KBbLs2dBhLbfxwag@mail.gmail.com>

 Side by side video, 2 frames showing the same content in perfect sync with
each other... Is it possible with LiveCode?  Not only video, but having LC
graphics and buttons duplicated without losing frames.  Have any of you
considered making apps for VR on a phone?

~Roger


From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Mar 30 13:48:00 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 10:48:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>

Alejandro Tejada wrote
> Just noticed that you used: export snapshot
> instead of import snapshot
> Why? Is import snapshot buggy in some
> LiveCode versions?
> Alejandro

I guess it is a habit from times when the paintcompression default was "RLE"
in the IDE and you can define the export format using export... e.g. as
"png".

And somehow I like to export to a container. I feel I have more control over
where the image goes instead of an image just landing smack in the middle of
the card. But that is just a matter of preferences.

Now the default paintcompression is "PNG" and it does not matter so much
anymore. Before you would have to change the paintCompression to get a "png"
using import.

It also used to be that using "RLE" as paintcompression sped up some image
manipulations quite a lot for setting imageData and such. As far as I am
aware the speed advantage is not as large as it used to be.

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702803.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 30 14:26:15 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 11:26:15 -0700
Subject: Preferences file
Message-ID: <56FC1A47.5070909@ahsoftware.net>

Having finally taken the plunge and upgraded to El Capitan, I'm having 
trouble locating the LC8 livecode7.rev preferences file. It's not where 
I expected it to be. Can someone clue me in as to where to find it?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 14:37:22 2016
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:37:22 +0300
Subject: Preferences file
In-Reply-To: <56FC1A47.5070909@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56FC1A47.5070909@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_=csa7XHzOAGjTxk_JLnh0ouhu_-EaE6Fa7y1WLpNvDg@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't it in /Users/username/Library/Preferences/RunRev/ ?
On 30 Mar 2016 19:26, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Having finally taken the plunge and upgraded to El Capitan, I'm having
> trouble locating the LC8 livecode7.rev preferences file. It's not where I
> expected it to be. Can someone clue me in as to where to find it?
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 14:41:14 2016
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:41:14 -0400
Subject: Preferences file
In-Reply-To: <56FC1A47.5070909@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56FC1A47.5070909@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <C5385BE2-1E0F-4F04-90BB-517B251B19E9@gmail.com>

Seems to be here:

/Users/colin/Library/Preferences/RunRev/livecode7.rev

or maybe:

/Users/mark/Library/Preferences/RunRev/livecode7.rev

in your case.

Bit of OS X trivia: if you select the above text and right-click on it, you can choose Reveal in Finder from the Services menu.


> On Mar 30, 2016, at 2:26 PM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> livecode7.rev



From prothero at earthednet.org  Wed Mar 30 14:51:28 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 11:51:28 -0700
Subject: Using Behaviors for Triggering UI Design - Run Time
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1j459_qcMmDai7+gSD_0gXwitkhH6nUb7h=2R9no1sDsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <etPan.56fb5b14.93ee3f3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FBDA66.1070101@fourthworld.com>
	<CAJR0Q1j459_qcMmDai7+gSD_0gXwitkhH6nUb7h=2R9no1sDsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DABE47F-373B-4FBA-9399-AE69CFABAD9E@earthednet.org>

I?m wondering, does a script only behavior stack have to be loaded first with ?Start Using stack xyz? or once the behavior is set, LC automatically loads and connects it to the control. What I?m thinking is that if a lot of behaviors are used, and the appear in the project browser as stacks, there may be a lot of stacks showing up, and to avoid confusion, behavior stacks may want to be named so they appear together and maybe at the bottom of the alphabetical list.

True?

Bill

> On Mar 30, 2016, at 8:40 AM, Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> NB the behavior entry in the dictionary has been rewritten and will be
> correct in the next release of 8.0. You can check out the raw text of it
> here if you want:
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/property/behavior.lcdoc
> 
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 2:53 PM Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>>> Let's say we have a series of fields that have just a few words of
>>> text in them we want to center vertically. Text varies. Our designers
>>> may want to change the words over time.  I don't want to have to go
>>> in and manually adjust the top and bottom margins to achieve the
>>> position.
>>> 
>>> So then this is were dynamic runtime GUI layout/typesetting may be
>>> the way to go. Once the UI is all finished one could turn it off
>>> because the properties would be set for the fields.
>>> 
>>> We could create a behavior (ideally an external.livecodescript text
>>> file) with this in it
>>> 
>>> command centerTextVertically
>>> put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
>>> put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins
>>> set topmargin of me to tTopBottomMargins
>>> end centerTextVertically
>>> 
>>> put the long ID of the button that contains that into the field; then
>>> make multiple copies of that field place them on the UI.
>>> 
>>> 1)  When, how and what is the most efficient way...to trigger this?
>>> in a preopenstack or preopencard handler? so that the UI fields are
>>> all centered when the card renders?
>>> 
>>> But then it needs to be a behavior of the stack or card, but then the
>>> reference to "me" fails to target the fields which all have the same
>>> name.
>> 
>> If it makes sense to put those fields into a group you can use
>> preOpenControl.
>> 
>> 
>>> 2) Still waiting on how to set a behavior to an
>>> external.livecodescript. Dictionary only descripts the long id of a
>>> button method.
>> 
>> Behaviors can be either buttons or stacks, and the stacks need not be
>> script-only.
>> 
>> When setting any behavior the syntax is:
>> 
>>   set the behavior of <obj> to <absoluteObjReference>
>> 
>> ...where <absoluteObjReference> is usually the long ID of a button, but
>> can be any unambiguous object reference.
>> 
>> FWIW you can use "the long id" for any object, even stacks.
>> 
>> In all cases, once set a behavior is resolved to a "rugged long ID", a
>> long ID where the stack portion is changed from the full file path as we
>> normally find it to just the stack name, allowing portability.
>> 
>> For example:
>> 
>>    button id 1004 of cd id 1003 of stack
>> "/home/rg/something/rsrc.livecode"
>> 
>> ...becomes:
>> 
>>    button id of cd id 1003 of stack "rsrc"
>> 
>> 
>> So when using a stack as a behavior you can write:
>> 
>>    set the behavior of btn "Something" to the long id of stack "rsrc"
>> 
>> ...or even more simply, since stack names are already unique:
>> 
>>    set the behavior of btn "Something" to the name of stack "rsrc"
>> 
>> 
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Systems
>>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>  ____________________________________________________________________
>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Wed Mar 30 15:02:44 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:02:44 +0200
Subject: How to make a group scroll withut a visible scrollbar/by using one
	finger touch/scroll wheel on a mouse
Message-ID: <A7DC323E-18D2-4600-8440-DCA15D1ADC01@me.com>

I have noticed that it is possible to hav a datagrid objekt scroll without a visible scrollbar, if the "scroll when vscrollbar is hidden? is set to true. when doing so, it is possible to use one finger/scroll wheel to scroll up and down in a datagrid, just as you can when the mouse hovers over a field. Since the datagrid is a grouped object, it should be possible to make other groups behave in the same way. Or at least, I think it should be possible. But I seem to be unable to find any help as to how to achieve this. Has anyone on the list found a way to make this happen.

Regards 
Tore


From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 15:06:26 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:06:26 -0700
Subject: line spacing coming in from text pasted from pdf or .doc
In-Reply-To: <56FC1256.9040606@pdslabs.net>
References: <CANQHZSFZ5PnsjLsAkwAy1QXGRTxWa0x4Q4xsdpQpYA32P7LvyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FC1256.9040606@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSGzR+ZnQ9hTaR8HuDUw3u1ByHbaSa7OB=Fk2P+JRo6jpw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:

>
> It sounds like you want the pasted text to leave behind any source
> document-based properties and use those of the field you're pasting into.
> Right?
>

Not quite.  I want to keep font, italic, bold,size, and the like, which I'm
able to process.

But things like line numbering and line spacing from word seem to come in,
but I can't find anything in the docs to clear them.

I check for "mixed" for pasting in that has mixed size/font to deal with
manually, and otherwise set a custom property so that it can reset.


> During the paste, have you tried putting the clipboardData["text"] into a
> variable, then putting the variable into the field? (Or set the text of the
> selectedChunk to the variable)  That should get rid of any and all text
> properties. Then if your problem is still there, it's probably invisible
> text characters or some such thing - not text props at least.
>

That loses the formatting that I need, though.

Is there some way to find/parse what style info has been set on the field?
Or documentation or a list of what these properties can be?

thanks



-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 15:14:58 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:14:58 -0700
Subject: negating in a regexp
Message-ID: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to filter a string to change everything but digits to spaces.

It would seem that


replaceText("ab26 <tab>g9", "^\d",space)


should produce "  26   9", but for the live of me, I can't get ^ to work in
any context.

I've even tried playing with the regex builder plugin, with no success.

Am I missing something simple (again)?

thanks
-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From hh at livecode.org  Wed Mar 30 14:55:50 2016
From: hh at livecode.org (-hh)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 11:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: negating in a regexp
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1459364150683-4702811.post@n4.nabble.com>

Dr. Hawkins wrote
> I'm trying to filter a string to change everything but digits to spaces.
> It would seem that
> replaceText("ab26 
> <tab>
> g9", "^\d",space)
> should produce "  26   9", but for the live of me, I can't get ^ to work
> in
> any context.

Use "[^0-9]" instead of "^\d".



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/negating-in-a-regexp-tp4702810p4702811.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From revdev at pdslabs.net  Wed Mar 30 15:29:47 2016
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:29:47 -0700
Subject: line spacing coming in from text pasted from pdf or .doc
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSGzR+ZnQ9hTaR8HuDUw3u1ByHbaSa7OB=Fk2P+JRo6jpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFZ5PnsjLsAkwAy1QXGRTxWa0x4Q4xsdpQpYA32P7LvyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FC1256.9040606@pdslabs.net>
	<CANQHZSGzR+ZnQ9hTaR8HuDUw3u1ByHbaSa7OB=Fk2P+JRo6jpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FC292B.2050908@pdslabs.net>

You could see if the unwanted style info appears in the htmlText ot the 
styledText, and delete it from there I suppose. Sounds messy.

Phil



On 3/30/16 12:06 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Phil Davis <revdev at pdslabs.net> wrote:
>
>> It sounds like you want the pasted text to leave behind any source
>> document-based properties and use those of the field you're pasting into.
>> Right?
>>
> Not quite.  I want to keep font, italic, bold,size, and the like, which I'm
> able to process.
>
> But things like line numbering and line spacing from word seem to come in,
> but I can't find anything in the docs to clear them.
>
> I check for "mixed" for pasting in that has mixed size/font to deal with
> manually, and otherwise set a custom property so that it can reset.
>
>
>> During the paste, have you tried putting the clipboardData["text"] into a
>> variable, then putting the variable into the field? (Or set the text of the
>> selectedChunk to the variable)  That should get rid of any and all text
>> properties. Then if your problem is still there, it's probably invisible
>> text characters or some such thing - not text props at least.
>>
> That loses the formatting that I need, though.
>
> Is there some way to find/parse what style info has been set on the field?
> Or documentation or a list of what these properties can be?
>
> thanks
>
>
>

-- 
Phil Davis




From pete at lcsql.com  Wed Mar 30 15:30:46 2016
From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:30:46 +0000
Subject: negating in a regexp
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDT7eNPbSguyu42qYp7ojh6VboHULSEcvjafb2bzKso9xYZ1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Try [^\d]

^ outside [] means start of line.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:15 PM Dr. Hawkins <dochawk at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to filter a string to change everything but digits to spaces.
>
> It would seem that
>
>
> replaceText("ab26 <tab>g9", "^\d",space)
>
>
> should produce "  26   9", but for the live of me, I can't get ^ to work in
> any context.
>
> I've even tried playing with the regex builder plugin, with no success.
>
> Am I missing something simple (again)?
>
> thanks
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Wed Mar 30 15:32:52 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:32:52 -0400
Subject: negating in a regexp
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXMEXtUYd1cwmGi-ci0L7Eo3P7uTq0gDT9_Vj9P16btk0A@mail.gmail.com>

*put* replaceText(fld 1, "[^0-9]+", space) into fld 2



On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Dr. Hawkins <dochawk at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to filter a string to change everything but digits to spaces.
>
> It would seem that
>
>
> replaceText("ab26 <tab>g9", "^\d",space)
>
>
> should produce "  26   9", but for the live of me, I can't get ^ to work in
> any context.
>
> I've even tried playing with the regex builder plugin, with no success.
>
> Am I missing something simple (again)?
>
> thanks
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From revolution at derbrill.de  Wed Mar 30 15:43:26 2016
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:43:26 +0200
Subject: Should before [handler name] trigger when using send?  
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1459245602.20845.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.3.1459245602.20845.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CFEC363B-1600-4471-BB36-533F32788182@derbrill.de>

Hi Ali,

> Yes, I think it should work. Is the error saying that the actual `on
> resizeControl` handler is not found?
that indeed was the case. But only in the standalone (using the 7.1.3 engine)

@all: thanks for your replies. I am puzzled by Bernds observations though. Need to test with 8 DP16 then.

All the best,

Malte



From pete at lcsql.com  Wed Mar 30 15:46:43 2016
From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:46:43 +0000
Subject: negating in a regexp
In-Reply-To: <CAAT6EXMEXtUYd1cwmGi-ci0L7Eo3P7uTq0gDT9_Vj9P16btk0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAT6EXMEXtUYd1cwmGi-ci0L7Eo3P7uTq0gDT9_Vj9P16btk0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDT7ePcLHd25LTY10Cc4HPC4qC=2v7zs0TB7LCLcwqcKtndzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wasn't sure about the need for "+".  The dictionary entry for replaceText
says it replaces all instances of strings that match the regex.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:33 PM Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
wrote:

> *put* replaceText(fld 1, "[^0-9]+", space) into fld 2
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Dr. Hawkins <dochawk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to filter a string to change everything but digits to spaces.
> >
> > It would seem that
> >
> >
> > replaceText("ab26 <tab>g9", "^\d",space)
> >
> >
> > should produce "  26   9", but for the live of me, I can't get ^ to work
> in
> > any context.
> >
> > I've even tried playing with the regex builder plugin, with no success.
> >
> > Am I missing something simple (again)?
> >
> > thanks
> > --
> > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> > (702) 508-8462
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com  Wed Mar 30 15:32:36 2016
From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: line spacing coming in from text pasted from pdf or .doc
In-Reply-To: <56FC292B.2050908@pdslabs.net>
References: <CANQHZSFZ5PnsjLsAkwAy1QXGRTxWa0x4Q4xsdpQpYA32P7LvyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FC1256.9040606@pdslabs.net>
	<CANQHZSGzR+ZnQ9hTaR8HuDUw3u1ByHbaSa7OB=Fk2P+JRo6jpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FC292B.2050908@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <1459366356544-4702817.post@n4.nabble.com>

If you go the html parsing route, this blog article may prove useful:
http://www.websighthangouts.com/how-to-paste-from-microsoft-word/

I found pasted text from Word carried the invisible characters linefeed
(numToChar 33) and null (numToChar 0).

Tom Bodine




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/line-spacing-coming-in-from-text-pasted-from-pdf-or-doc-tp4702799p4702817.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Mar 30 16:04:27 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:04:27 -0500
Subject: line spacing coming in from text pasted from pdf or .doc
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSGzR+ZnQ9hTaR8HuDUw3u1ByHbaSa7OB=Fk2P+JRo6jpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFZ5PnsjLsAkwAy1QXGRTxWa0x4Q4xsdpQpYA32P7LvyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FC1256.9040606@pdslabs.net>
	<CANQHZSGzR+ZnQ9hTaR8HuDUw3u1ByHbaSa7OB=Fk2P+JRo6jpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FC314B.5070901@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/30/2016 2:06 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
> Is there some way to find/parse what style info has been set on the field?
> Or documentation or a list of what these properties can be?

The styledText property, maybe?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar 30 16:07:32 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:07:32 +0000
Subject: Using Behaviors for Triggering UI Design - Run Time
Message-ID: <etPan.56fc3204.76fea704.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>

@ Richard: doc on Git still leaves this use of stacks as behaviors quite opaque for someone coming to it with no background.   I suspect we only need about 5 more key sentences to get us to "aha! so that's how it works!"

Ditto Bill's question.

I tested this:

1) create script only stack with this script (this works if run from a button on the card and a direct reference to the field name)

 command centerTextVertically
  put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
  put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins
end centerTextVertically

2) save that script only stack as "sv_field-behaviors.livecodescript"

3) go to a field --> set behavior --> choose stack --> I see that stack "sv_field-behaviors" available.

4) set the behavior of the field to that stack

First Puzzle:

In the message box I run
"centerTextVertically"
Nothing happens: the text in the field doesn't move (should get a new top margin)
Why not?

Missing key: how the msg path works

Second Puzzle:
  - go back to the field I had created... behavior is set as expected: "stack sv_field-behaviors"
  - create new field, go to behaviors, choose stack: that stack does not appear

So this goes back to Bill's question.

Obviously we would have to at least open the "sv_field-bahaviors.livecodescript"  if we want to apply it to another field... but then if we save and quit and reboot the stack

If we do not load the stack somewhere in a preopenstack or card handler.. is the behavior even available?



Answers need to be appended to this paragraph in the dict entry on GIT.

"The value of the <behavior> <property> is a <object reference|reference>
to a <button> or <stack> containing the script to
use.  The format stored in the object it's assigned to is similar to a
<id(property)|long ID>.  The main difference is that where a long ID includes
the full path to the <stack file>, the form stored in the <behavior>
includes only the stack <name>, allowing the reference to continue to
work after the stack file has been moved to another computer. If you
set the <behavior> to a long ID, LiveCode converts it to a rugged form
without the stack <file path>."

And, once we get the above clear:

-- why doesn't the  behavior "hear" the command from the msg box?
-- how do we auto "fire" commands in behaviors set in fields of a card? so that the "me" reference is the field? Put another way: I want to trigger commands in behaviors set in different controls (fields, buttons, graphics, images)  on a card, in the preopenstack or open card or preopencard handler, how would we do that?

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Mar 30 16:08:14 2016
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:08:14 -0400
Subject: LiveCode and Virtual Reality (VR)
In-Reply-To: <CAAT6EXOtL0zqsk8=NrLzKntt1khvQtSpN9KBbLs2dBhLbfxwag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOtL0zqsk8=NrLzKntt1khvQtSpN9KBbLs2dBhLbfxwag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01271B4A-7691-4A33-AD9F-6565F9F57368@all-auctions.com>

Hi Roger,

I do not think the processing power is sufficient 
for this to be done using LC on an iPhone at
this time.  If someone wants to prove this
informaton is incorrect for some reason, I'd
gladly be all eyes and ears!

Thanks,

Rick

> On Mar 30, 2016, at 2:14 PM, Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com> wrote:
> 
> Side by side video, 2 frames showing the same content in perfect sync with
> each other... Is it possible with LiveCode?  Not only video, but having LC
> graphics and buttons duplicated without losing frames.  Have any of you
> considered making apps for VR on a phone?
> 
> ~Roger




From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Mar 30 15:42:12 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to make a group scroll withut a visible scrollbar/by using
	one finger touch/scroll wheel on a mouse
In-Reply-To: <A7DC323E-18D2-4600-8440-DCA15D1ADC01@me.com>
References: <A7DC323E-18D2-4600-8440-DCA15D1ADC01@me.com>
Message-ID: <1459366932337-4702821.post@n4.nabble.com>

Tore Nilsen wrote
> I have noticed that it is possible to hav a datagrid objekt scroll without
> a visible scrollbar, if the "scroll when vscrollbar is hidden? is set to
> true. when doing so, it is possible to use one finger/scroll wheel to
> scroll up and down in a datagrid, just as you can when the mouse hovers
> over a field. Since the datagrid is a grouped object, it should be
> possible to make other groups behave in the same way. Or at least, I think
> it should be possible. But I seem to be unable to find any help as to how
> to achieve this. Has anyone on the list found a way to make this happen.
> 
> Regards 
> Tore

Hi Tore

for fields you can set the vScrollbar and set its width to 0

For groups this does not seem to work.

A workaround is to put a script like this into the script of the group

---------------------------------------------
on rawkeydown pKey
   put 6 into tIncrement -- change increment here
   switch pKey
      case 65308
         set the vScroll of me to the vScroll of me + tIncrement
         break
      case 65309
         set the vScroll of me to the vScroll of me - tIncrement
         break
      default
         pass rawkeyDown
   end switch
end rawkeydown
--------------------------------------------

mind you this only works if the content of the group is taller than the
group. You would have to set the lockLoc of the group to true.

Above script triggers a "scrollbarDrag" message. If you don't want this add
some message locking.

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-make-a-group-scroll-withut-a-visible-scrollbar-by-using-one-finger-touch-scroll-wheel-on-a-moe-tp4702808p4702821.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 16:20:54 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:20:54 -0700
Subject: negating in a regexp
In-Reply-To: <CAGDT7eNPbSguyu42qYp7ojh6VboHULSEcvjafb2bzKso9xYZ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGDT7eNPbSguyu42qYp7ojh6VboHULSEcvjafb2bzKso9xYZ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSGz_LHjviPbaf5PPwmgjSLhmZcJPe-4sF-B-9hxPdvzig@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Peter Haworth <pete at lcsql.com> wrote:

> ^ outside [] means start of line.


[insert head-banging here . . .]

Argh.  Thank you.  That's exactly what I need.


"[^0-9\ ]" is exactly what I'm trying to do.

Thank you all so much.


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 15:52:24 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Bernd,


BNig wrote
> I guess it is a habit from times when the paintcompression default was
> "RLE" in the IDE and you can define the export format using export... e.g.
> as "png".
> 
> And somehow I like to export to a container. I feel I have more control
> over where the image goes instead of an image just landing smack in the
> middle of the card. But that is just a matter of preferences.
> 
> Now the default paintcompression is "PNG" and it does not matter so much
> anymore. Before you would have to change the paintCompression to get a
> "png" using import.
> 
> It also used to be that using "RLE" as paintcompression sped up some image
> manipulations quite a lot for setting imageData and such. As far as I am
> aware the speed advantage is not as large as it used to be.

This information is very useful. Many Thanks! :D

Did you have a reliable recipe to export (or import)
a snapshot of an image with a blend mode
(or ink effect) applied?

Try this:

1) Import two images:

a) transparent black and white png (ubuntu logo)
http://design.ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/logo-ubuntu_cof-white_black-hex.png

b) color jpg image (ubuntu glass logo)
https://roboticsclub.org/redmine/projects/scoutmech/repository/revisions/126146b75ea50ed09523a8c2cc85c83ee7d6f93b/entry/docs/DocumentationImages/WebsiteMarketing/WebsiteSlider/ubuntu_glass_logo.jpg

2) Apply a blend mode (or ink effect) 
like blendPlus or blendMultiply or 
notSrcOr, etc, etc, etc. to these
images.

3) Import or export a snapshot
of these images and place the result
in the same card. The result is exactly
like original images, without the
blend (or ink applied)

How could we import an image
that shows the ink effect?

Thanks in advance!

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702823.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Wed Mar 30 16:33:07 2016
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:33:07 +0200
Subject: How to make a group scroll withut a visible scrollbar/by using	one
	finger touch/scroll wheel on a mouse
In-Reply-To: <1459366932337-4702821.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <A7DC323E-18D2-4600-8440-DCA15D1ADC01@me.com>
	<1459366932337-4702821.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <DB7BFFD4-E1DE-4DA7-B8CD-34CA30092778@me.com>

Thank you, it worked just the way I wanted it to work.

Tore
> 30. mar. 2016 kl. 21.42 skrev BNig <bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de>:
> 
> Tore Nilsen wrote
>> I have noticed that it is possible to hav a datagrid objekt scroll without
>> a visible scrollbar, if the "scroll when vscrollbar is hidden? is set to
>> true. when doing so, it is possible to use one finger/scroll wheel to
>> scroll up and down in a datagrid, just as you can when the mouse hovers
>> over a field. Since the datagrid is a grouped object, it should be
>> possible to make other groups behave in the same way. Or at least, I think
>> it should be possible. But I seem to be unable to find any help as to how
>> to achieve this. Has anyone on the list found a way to make this happen.
>> 
>> Regards 
>> Tore
> 
> Hi Tore
> 
> for fields you can set the vScrollbar and set its width to 0
> 
> For groups this does not seem to work.
> 
> A workaround is to put a script like this into the script of the group
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> on rawkeydown pKey
>   put 6 into tIncrement -- change increment here
>   switch pKey
>      case 65308
>         set the vScroll of me to the vScroll of me + tIncrement
>         break
>      case 65309
>         set the vScroll of me to the vScroll of me - tIncrement
>         break
>      default
>         pass rawkeyDown
>   end switch
> end rawkeydown
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> mind you this only works if the content of the group is taller than the
> group. You would have to set the lockLoc of the group to true.
> 
> Above script triggers a "scrollbarDrag" message. If you don't want this add
> some message locking.
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-make-a-group-scroll-withut-a-visible-scrollbar-by-using-one-finger-touch-scroll-wheel-on-a-moe-tp4702808p4702821.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Wed Mar 30 16:35:04 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:35:04 -0400
Subject: negating in a regexp
In-Reply-To: <CANQHZSGz_LHjviPbaf5PPwmgjSLhmZcJPe-4sF-B-9hxPdvzig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGDT7eNPbSguyu42qYp7ojh6VboHULSEcvjafb2bzKso9xYZ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANQHZSGz_LHjviPbaf5PPwmgjSLhmZcJPe-4sF-B-9hxPdvzig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXNnUEqkVrR3ZaadxdY2tU8HqwoYrWw7NksgZpuuK72Q3Q@mail.gmail.com>

"[^0-9]" instead of "[^0-9\ ]" is what works for me.


On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Peter Haworth <pete at lcsql.com> wrote:
>
> "[^0-9\ ]" is exactly what I'm trying to do.
>
> Thank you all so much.
>
>
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
>
>


From dochawk at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 16:41:08 2016
From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:41:08 -0700
Subject: negating in a regexp
In-Reply-To: <CAAT6EXNnUEqkVrR3ZaadxdY2tU8HqwoYrWw7NksgZpuuK72Q3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQHZSFowQp8AFZxYp3LY+xD7+qqM1T+2JV0K5YiXLYmjikXBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGDT7eNPbSguyu42qYp7ojh6VboHULSEcvjafb2bzKso9xYZ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANQHZSGz_LHjviPbaf5PPwmgjSLhmZcJPe-4sF-B-9hxPdvzig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAT6EXNnUEqkVrR3ZaadxdY2tU8HqwoYrWw7NksgZpuuK72Q3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANQHZSHQSKoE+5GRC758fHf_zNmkgMYXbkjRAJZ6ALN+_KS4oQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
wrote:

> "[^0-9]" instead of "[^0-9\ ]" is what works for me.


When we get down it, I want spaces, too.

Then again, I guess the result is identical whether or not the space is
included; there is no need to change a space to a space . . .


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462


From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Wed Mar 30 16:16:04 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:16:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>

Alejandro Tejada wrote
> Hi Bernd,
> Did you have a reliable recipe to export (or import)
> a snapshot of an image with a blend mode
> (or ink effect) applied?
> 
> Try this:
> 
> 1) Import two images:
> 
> a) transparent black and white png (ubuntu logo)
> http://design.ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/logo-ubuntu_cof-white_black-hex.png
> 
> b) color jpg image (ubuntu glass logo)
> https://roboticsclub.org/redmine/projects/scoutmech/repository/revisions/126146b75ea50ed09523a8c2cc85c83ee7d6f93b/entry/docs/DocumentationImages/WebsiteMarketing/WebsiteSlider/ubuntu_glass_logo.jpg
> 
> 2) Apply a blend mode (or ink effect) 
> like blendPlus or blendMultiply or 
> notSrcOr, etc, etc, etc. to these
> images.
> 
> 3) Import or export a snapshot
> of these images and place the result
> in the same card. The result is exactly
> like original images, without the
> blend (or ink applied)
> 
> How could we import an image
> that shows the ink effect?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Alejandro

for inks you have to make a screenshot from the system-view

------------------------------
on mouseUp
   put the rect of image "sourceImg" into tSourceRect
   put item 1 to 2 of tSourceRect into tTopLeft
   put item 3 to 4 of tSourceRect into tBotRight
   put globalLoc(tTopLeft) into tTopLeft
   put globalLoc(tBotRight) into tBotRight
   export snapshot from rect (tTopLeft & "," & tBotRight) to image "myImg"
as png
end mouseUp
-----------------------------
But I think transparency is lost. But you get the ink-mode

tried with notSrcCopy and blendExclusion. worked all right.

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702827.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Wed Mar 30 16:53:54 2016
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:53:54 -0400
Subject: LiveCode and Virtual Reality (VR)
In-Reply-To: <01271B4A-7691-4A33-AD9F-6565F9F57368@all-auctions.com>
References: <CAAT6EXOtL0zqsk8=NrLzKntt1khvQtSpN9KBbLs2dBhLbfxwag@mail.gmail.com>
	<01271B4A-7691-4A33-AD9F-6565F9F57368@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <CAAT6EXM3AGi75wV-Bu4bOZ=d8=-a9m=4hYVYfT7B3KYqLK73PA@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=3d+sbs+videos+for+3d+glasses+

There are already quite a few pre-rendered videos for viewing in a VR
headset, but if LC can play the same video (not pre-rendered SBS) in two
players side-by-side, that would be pretty awesome.



On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Rick Harrison <harrison at all-auctions.com>
wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> I do not think the processing power is sufficient
> for this to be done using LC on an iPhone at
> this time.  If someone wants to prove this
> informaton is incorrect for some reason, I'd
> gladly be all eyes and ears!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
> > On Mar 30, 2016, at 2:14 PM, Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Side by side video, 2 frames showing the same content in perfect sync
> with
> > each other... Is it possible with LiveCode?  Not only video, but having
> LC
> > graphics and buttons duplicated without losing frames.  Have any of you
> > considered making apps for VR on a phone?
> >
> > ~Roger
>
>


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 30 17:41:38 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:41:38 -0700
Subject: Preferences file
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_=csa7XHzOAGjTxk_JLnh0ouhu_-EaE6Fa7y1WLpNvDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56FC1A47.5070909@ahsoftware.net>
	<CA+JfEq_=csa7XHzOAGjTxk_JLnh0ouhu_-EaE6Fa7y1WLpNvDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FC4812.1030300@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/30/2016 11:37 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote:
> Isn't it in /Users/username/Library/Preferences/RunRev/ ?

Interesting. That's where I was looking, and it wasn't there earlier. 
Now it is. Thanks.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 30 17:43:34 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:43:34 -0700
Subject: Preferences file
In-Reply-To: <C5385BE2-1E0F-4F04-90BB-517B251B19E9@gmail.com>
References: <56FC1A47.5070909@ahsoftware.net>
	<C5385BE2-1E0F-4F04-90BB-517B251B19E9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FC4886.10104@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/30/2016 11:41 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:

> /Users/mark/Library/Preferences/RunRev/livecode7.rev

Thanks. Don't know why it wasn't there earlier today.
Took the cats to the vet, came back, and there it was.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Mar 30 17:50:50 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:50:50 -0700
Subject: Using Behaviors for Triggering UI Design - Run Time
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fc3204.76fea704.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fc3204.76fea704.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FC4A3A.4050501@ahsoftware.net>

On 03/30/2016 01:07 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> I tested this:
>
> 1) create script only stack with this script (this works if run from a button on the card and a direct reference to the field name)
>
>   command centerTextVertically
>    put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
>    put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins
> end centerTextVertically
>
> 2) save that script only stack as "sv_field-behaviors.livecodescript"
>
> 3) go to a field --> set behavior --> choose stack --> I see that stack "sv_field-behaviors" available.
>
> 4) set the behavior of the field to that stack
>
> First Puzzle:
>
> In the message box I run
> "centerTextVertically"
> Nothing happens: the text in the field doesn't move (should get a new top margin)
> Why not?

I think of behavior scripts as private backscripts. So in your case 
you're setting the behavior of a field, but then you're going to the 
message box to try invoking a handler in a behavior script, and that 
handler can't be seen from anywhere except your field. Try

send "centerTextVertically" to field <nameOfField>

another way to do this would be to also set the behavior of the message 
box field to the same behavior script, but that way lies madness.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar 30 19:03:12 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 23:03:12 +0000
Subject: Using Behaviors for Triggering UI Design - Run Time
In-Reply-To: <56FC4A3A.4050501@ahsoftware.net>
References: <etPan.56fc3204.76fea704.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FC4A3A.4050501@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fc5b30.40705bc7.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Thank Mark... I had a chat with jacqueline... yes need to understand how these behaviors are triggered.

meanwhile, in lc8 dp 15 I can't get a scriptonly stack behavior to work at all. Still missing something mission critical here...


see other threadon "script only stack architecture"

On March 30, 2016 at 11:51:05 AM, Mark Wieder (mwieder at ahsoftware.net<mailto:mwieder at ahsoftware.net>) wrote:

I think of behavior scripts as private backscripts. So in your case
you're setting the behavior of a field, but then you're going to the
message box to try invoking a handler in a behavior script, and that
handler can't be seen from anywhere except your field. Try

send "centerTextVertically" to field <nameOfField>

another way to do this would be to also set the behavior of the message
box field to the same behavior script, but that way lies madness.

From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar 30 19:03:47 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 23:03:47 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
Message-ID: <etPan.56fc5b53.3fe34671.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Monte:

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

For now, even the basics would help... in the dictionary... I had to test this morning to learn things that could all be placed on a single page of documentation

1) create a script only stack. Save to disk and leave open call it "behavior-field-text.livecodescript)
2) create field; set behavior, aha! my new script only stack is available.
3) assign the stack to the field  -- should accept on mousup, field is locked and the behavior refers to "me") for testing the behavior stack has a simple:


on mouseup

answer "from stack behavior"

put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight

put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins

set topmargin of me to tTopBottomMargins

end mouseUp

4) lock field, click on field... nothing happens .... aaaahhh (blink)

5) go to the message box... on a hunch type

"start using behavior-field-text.livecodesript"

6) click on field ... Oh, it works now!

7) save stack quit LC

8) boot LC again... open main stack with field that has the behavior

9) click on field that has behavior assign, Oh gosh... now it doesn't work.

10) But wait... inspect field  the behavior is assigned to "behavior-field-text.livecodesript"
-- Why doesnt' it work... duh

11) to go main stack, preopenstack handler  add this:

put specialFolderPath("Resources") into tAppRoot
start using stack (tAppRoot &"/"&"/main-stack-scripts/behaviors/sv_field-behaviors.livecode"

12) from msg box run "preopenstack" -- my behavior stack is now in use, theoretically.

13) Note that only one  field has this stack behavior assigned

but now: any mouseup anywhere on the UI triggers the script.. mouseup msg from anywhere is intercepted by the script-only-stack that is assigned to just a single field.

Also: reference to "me" obviously lost and the behavior script thinks "me" refers to itself and not the child field.


[X] executing at 12:42:02 PM<http://airmail.calendar/2016-03-30%2012:42:02%20HST>

Type Object: does not have this property

Object sv_field-behaviors

Line put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight

Hint mouseup


14) move that script to a button... change the field behavior to that button.


on mouseup

answer "from btn behavior"

put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight

put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins

set topmargin of me to tTopBottomMargins

end mouseUp


and it works out of the box...


--- pretty much a complete nightmare...lost all day yesterday<http://airmail.calendar/2016-03-29%2012:00:00%20HST> and all morning today<http://airmail.calendar/2016-03-30%2012:00:00%20HST>...

Sure what I hope for is a full scope architecture thing...

but for now: We are  not asking for a lot, just enough to understand how to make it work?

Since this model has been in use since 6.5 or something like that... clearly it works.  Can we just document how?

unable to assign behavior to script-only-stack.


 What am I Missing?

BR



From pete at lcsql.com  Wed Mar 30 19:24:10 2016
From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 23:24:10 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fc5b53.3fe34671.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fc5b53.3fe34671.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <CAGDT7eO83+SDyeanx0Eu5fH1MnmdSP3aFcuA-NiBx5coZNbigg@mail.gmail.com>

"start using" puts all handlers in the stack into the message path as front
scripts which is why all your mouseUp messages are being caught.

If your script-only stack is a separate main stack from your application's
main stack, just open the script-only stack in the preOpenxxx handler of
your app's main stack.  I haven't used script-only stacks yet but I think
they could be included in your app as substacks rather than separate main
stacks, then you wouldn;t need to do anything special after opening your
app's main stack.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 4:03 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <brahma at hindu.org>
wrote:

> Monte:
>
> Thanks for the thoughtful response.
>
> For now, even the basics would help... in the dictionary... I had to test
> this morning to learn things that could all be placed on a single page of
> documentation
>
> 1) create a script only stack. Save to disk and leave open call it
> "behavior-field-text.livecodescript)
> 2) create field; set behavior, aha! my new script only stack is available.
> 3) assign the stack to the field  -- should accept on mousup, field is
> locked and the behavior refers to "me") for testing the behavior stack has
> a simple:
>
>
> on mouseup
>
> answer "from stack behavior"
>
> put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
>
> put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins
>
> set topmargin of me to tTopBottomMargins
>
> end mouseUp
>
> 4) lock field, click on field... nothing happens .... aaaahhh (blink)
>
> 5) go to the message box... on a hunch type
>
> "start using behavior-field-text.livecodesript"
>
> 6) click on field ... Oh, it works now!
>
> 7) save stack quit LC
>
> 8) boot LC again... open main stack with field that has the behavior
>
> 9) click on field that has behavior assign, Oh gosh... now it doesn't work.
>
> 10) But wait... inspect field  the behavior is assigned to
> "behavior-field-text.livecodesript"
> -- Why doesnt' it work... duh
>
> 11) to go main stack, preopenstack handler  add this:
>
> put specialFolderPath("Resources") into tAppRoot
> start using stack (tAppRoot
> &"/"&"/main-stack-scripts/behaviors/sv_field-behaviors.livecode"
>
> 12) from msg box run "preopenstack" -- my behavior stack is now in use,
> theoretically.
>
> 13) Note that only one  field has this stack behavior assigned
>
> but now: any mouseup anywhere on the UI triggers the script.. mouseup msg
> from anywhere is intercepted by the script-only-stack that is assigned to
> just a single field.
>
> Also: reference to "me" obviously lost and the behavior script thinks "me"
> refers to itself and not the child field.
>
>
> [X] executing at 12:42:02 PM<
> http://airmail.calendar/2016-03-30%2012:42:02%20HST>
>
> Type Object: does not have this property
>
> Object sv_field-behaviors
>
> Line put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
>
> Hint mouseup
>
>
> 14) move that script to a button... change the field behavior to that
> button.
>
>
> on mouseup
>
> answer "from btn behavior"
>
> put the formattedheight of me into tTotalTextHeight
>
> put ( the height of me - tTotalTextHeight ) / 2 into tTopBottomMargins
>
> set topmargin of me to tTopBottomMargins
>
> end mouseUp
>
>
> and it works out of the box...
>
>
> --- pretty much a complete nightmare...lost all day yesterday<
> http://airmail.calendar/2016-03-29%2012:00:00%20HST> and all morning
> today<http://airmail.calendar/2016-03-30%2012:00:00%20HST>...
>
> Sure what I hope for is a full scope architecture thing...
>
> but for now: We are  not asking for a lot, just enough to understand how
> to make it work?
>
> Since this model has been in use since 6.5 or something like that...
> clearly it works.  Can we just document how?
>
> unable to assign behavior to script-only-stack.
>
>
>  What am I Missing?
>
> BR
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 19:27:50 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:27:50 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fc5904.3c1e4998.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <CA+S82Dos_MD1DZKYd_sQDHViq91gobz027GGH8rbTcKgiVGUpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<56F9FAA7.7040104@fourthworld.com>
	<8E195D92-0C9C-4EA4-962A-E3301383D222@appisle.net>
	<etPan.56fad703.39593034.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<EFC62955-5124-40C0-9B1C-3E2821E60AFC@appisle.net>
	<etPan.56fc5904.3c1e4998.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FC60F6.9070007@fourthworld.com>

On 03/30/2016 03:53 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> 1) create a script only stack. Save to disk and leave open call it
> "behavior-field-text.livecodescript)
> 2) create field; set behavior, aha! my new script only stack is available.
> 3) assign the stack to the field
...
> 4) lock field, click on field... nothing happens .... aaaahhh (blink)
>
> 5) go to the message box... on a hunch type
>
> "start using behavior-field-text.livecodesript"

"start using" is the command to start using a stack as a library, 
putting it globally into the back of the message path.  Since you're 
using these stack as a behavior script that's probably not what you want.

You can simply open the stacks (invisibly if you prefer), or you can 
load a stack file into memory by just querying any property within it, 
such as:

   get the name of stack "SomeStack"

Might be nice to have a "load stack" command, but for now even though 
the syntax may seem less intuitive the result is equally achievable.


NOTE: a long-standing source of confusion and frustration with behaviors 
is that the object holding the behavior script must be in memory when 
any stack containing objects subscribed to it is loaded.

When behaviors are in the same stack file the engine figures it out on 
its own.  But if the behaviors are in a separate stack file (regardless 
of whether it's script-only or normal) that separate stack file must be 
in memory first.

In some cases this can mean introducing a new stack only for the purpose 
of loading your others so that they load in an order that will allow 
behaviors to be resolved correctly.

Another option is to write a script that works on preOpenStack and walks 
through each object setting the object's behavior property to the 
object's behavior property, which forces resolution of the information 
already known to the engine but not loaded in the finicky order it requires.

A request to simplify this has been submitted:
<http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8993>



PS: Thanks for the CC, but if this was sent to the list I'm also a 
subscriber and will get a copy there.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Mar 30 19:35:42 2016
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 00:35:42 +0100
Subject: Help with legacy on-rev site tripped up on new LiveCode hosting
	service
In-Reply-To: <1459311904903-4702774.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459290300254-4702748.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB251E.80503@pdslabs.net> <1459300388502-4702759.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB3A34.2090809@pdslabs.net>
	<1459304194940-4702763.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FB44BA.3020608@pdslabs.net>
	<CAG1cpSpXtL55wNozee=6AgtRjJ7ic4SzUUnFPCLD5p83B7NTCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FB537D.6050009@ahsoftware.net>
	<1459311904903-4702774.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56FC62CE.2050305@tweedly.net>

Hi Martin,

it sounds like you've got your problems all fixed, but I thought I 
should mention that there was a subtle change in 'global' behaviour at 
some point in LC server evolution. It affected me when one of the 
upgrades changed things so I was using a later version (maybe 3.5 up to 
6.x ?? - that was fixed very quickly by David, a couple of years ago), 
and then affected me again on the recent change to Liquidweb (and I 
fixed it by changing my scripts to avoid the problem).

I don't know that I can easily explain it well, and I'm still trying to 
decide if it's a bug or not :-) - but I do know it used to work and now 
doesn't. Since I no longer have access to an older server, I haven't 
been able to do a direct comparison.

I *think* of include files as though they were a simple file insertion - 
but that's not actually how they work. The dictionary gives a (rather 
opaque) description - the included file is "parsed and variables are 
added to the global script context ..."

The following two files demonstrate the issue

b.lc
> <?rev
>
> include "b1.lc"
>
> put BAD

and
b1.lc
> <?rev
>
> global BAD
>
> on startup
>   put "good" into BAD
> end startup
>
> startup
>
Now if it worked like a file/text operation, accessing mysite.com/b.lc  
would produce "good" as output.
And (the way I read the dictionary description), I think it should do 
the same, because:
the variable 'BAD' should be added to the global context,
then the handler is added there too,
then the handler is executed and should set the variable to 'good',
and then (back in the top-level file) it should be printed out.

However, what is printed currently (on sage) is "BAD" - i.e. as though 
there was no such global variable.

Anyway - just in case you find there are less obvious problems resulting 
in bad output rather than errors - you might want to check on the 
order/placement of any global declarations.

-- Alex.


On 30/03/2016 05:25, Martin Koob wrote:
> Hi
>
> Thanks everyone for their comments.
>
> I managed to get it working.  There were a number of issues with
> incompatibilities of LC server 4.6.4 scripts with the LiveCode 6.2.6 engine.
> With some help from Monte I managed to find and resolve the following
> issues.
> -one is that there was a global scope and with the same name as variables in
> several functions.
>




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 19:43:58 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:43:58 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FC60F6.9070007@fourthworld.com>
References: <56FC60F6.9070007@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <56FC64BE.9010209@fourthworld.com>

I recently wrote:
> NOTE: a long-standing source of confusion and frustration with behaviors
> is that the object holding the behavior script must be in memory when
> any stack containing objects subscribed to it is loaded.
>
> When behaviors are in the same stack file the engine figures it out on
> its own.  But if the behaviors are in a separate stack file (regardless
> of whether it's script-only or normal) that separate stack file must be
> in memory first.
>
> In some cases this can mean introducing a new stack only for the purpose
> of loading your others so that they load in an order that will allow
> behaviors to be resolved correctly.
>
> Another option is to write a script that works on preOpenStack and walks
> through each object setting the object's behavior property to the
> object's behavior property, which forces resolution of the information
> already known to the engine but not loaded in the finicky order it requires.
>
> A request to simplify this has been submitted:
> <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8993>

I forgot to mention an even simpler way to make external stack files 
available, provided the first stack being loaded is a normal stack file 
(as opposed to script-only, which has no properties other than a script):

Just use the stackFiles property, adding any external stacks you like.

Apparently the stackfiles entries are loaded at the same time the stack 
containing those entries is loaded, and since they use relative paths 
they're fairly simple to work with.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 19:59:45 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Bernd,


BNig wrote
> for inks you have to make a screenshot from the system-view
> 
> ------------------------------
> on mouseUp
>    put the rect of image "sourceImg" into tSourceRect
>    put item 1 to 2 of tSourceRect into tTopLeft
>    put item 3 to 4 of tSourceRect into tBotRight
>    put globalLoc(tTopLeft) into tTopLeft
>    put globalLoc(tBotRight) into tBotRight
>    export snapshot from rect (tTopLeft & "," & tBotRight) to image "myImg"
> as png
> end mouseUp
> -----------------------------
> 
> But I think transparency is lost, but you get the ink-mode
> Tried with notSrcCopy and blendExclusion. 
> Worked all right.

Great! I hadn't thought of that possibility
of using a card screenshot. :-D

Certainly, transparency is lost (alphadata)
but could be restored (copied) from 
the original image:

> set the width of img 1 to the width of img 2
> set the height of img 1 to the height of img 2
> set the alphadata of image 2 to the alphadata of image 1

Many thanks again! :-)

Alejandro



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702838.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From james at thehales.id.au  Wed Mar 30 20:52:09 2016
From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:52:09 +1100
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
Message-ID: <F169225E-9016-4F49-B2E7-394919D4CCC8@thehales.id.au>

 Tom asked

> Nice script! 
The script was present when I previewed the post. Had it between <raw></raw> tags.
> 
> 1) What method are you using to embed those images in your field? 
The text being displayed was xhtml stripped of everything that wasn't needed as it was being displayed in a field using the htmltext property.
So the images were <a img=...> tags which LC interprets as a CHARACTER replacement. Hence my putting a <p></p> around the <a img...> to ensure the image was on a line by itself to ensure I had the full field width for display. 
As it is a character replacement, as far as a field is concerned, the 'fixed line height' needs to be false or the height of any image will be whatever line height setting the field has.
> 2) For smaller images, are you able to inset them within the text and have
> text wrap around, such as a small picture inset at the start of a paragraph?
> (I've been able to place the image at the start, but not able to get the
> paragraph of text to wrap it.)
Text wrap around is not possible using this method as the image is being treated as a character by the field. Indeed I am not aware of any way to have this just happen. Text fields in LC do an awful lot of things but not that.  For the case you mention, a bit like a pictorial drop cap, it could be fudged with three fields but it would require you to know the size of the image and then split the text into a first line (with image) then the lines to take you to the end of the image, displayed in a second field placed appropriately and finally the rest of the text in a third field from the bottom of the other two.
Messy. Also would not be able to select text across these lines at the top across the fields.
> 

James



From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar 30 21:15:47 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 01:15:47 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fc78ca.6389180e.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <56FC60F6.9070007@fourthworld.com>
	<56FC64BE.9010209@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fc78ca.6389180e.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fc7a42.1f5b99b3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Richard if you are updating the dict entry on this: we need to be even more clear:

e.g. if your intent is for the child control(s) to respond to "on mouseup"  this will not work if you do "start using" for your script-only stack." When you use "start using" the entire main stack file becomes, in effect a "child" of the behavior stack because you have set it as a global library and not a parent of specific controls

Svasti Astu! Be Well

Brahmanathaswami
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/apps/gurudeva


On March 30, 2016 at 3:09:31 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (brahma at hindu.org<mailto:brahma at hindu.org>) wrote:

e.g. if your intent is for the child control(s) to respond to "on mouseup"  this will not work if you do "start using" for your script-only stack."

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 21:23:28 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 18:23:28 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fc7a42.1f5b99b3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fc7a42.1f5b99b3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FC7C10.1060106@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

 > Richard if you are updating the dict entry on this: we need to be
 > even more clear:
 >
 > e.g. if your intent is for the child control(s) to respond to "on
 > mouseup"  this will not work if you do "start using" for your
 > script-only stack." When you use "start using" the entire main stack
 > file becomes, in effect a "child" of the behavior stack because you
 > have set it as a global library and not a parent of specific controls

I wasn't doing that update, but did it recommend using "start using" for 
behavior scripts?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 21:29:59 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 18:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459387799247-4702842.post@n4.nabble.com>

By the way, while looking for a script to convert a color in a mask,
(for example: convert bright green color of an image to alphadata)
I just found that Bernd already answer this Design Challenge, 
back in 2011:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6525

>From this 5 years old thread, download his stack:
alphaData.livecode.zip

Thankfully, working in these scripts unveiled
a recent bug that was just confirmed:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17257

Alejandro




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702842.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar 30 22:14:28 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 02:14:28 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
Message-ID: <etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>

@ Richard:

I looked at the bug 8993 . The problem is... what does "loaded" actually mean?

After two days of research, study and testing and responses here...
 I *still* could not  figure it out (until now thanks to your tip on stack files)

Indeed a serious confusion/conundrum for a new comer.

Create script-only.livecode stack

script "script-only"
on mouseup
   Put "Hello" into me
end mouseup

Save, open and apply as behavior to field. lock field, click on it.. nothing happens. msg is not sent to the behavior script.

put  this into preopenstack

start using stack  "[path-to]/script-only.livecode"

Now the madness begins: the stack accepts mousedown from *anywhere* on the UI and triggers an error, because "me" is not the field to which the behavior was applied.

 changing the preopenstack handler to

open stack  "[path-to]/script-only.livecode"

does not "load" it as such.. it is open, You can see it if you were to set behaviors it is there in the dropdown menu under the inspector but the field that has it set as a behavior does not trigger the mouseup in the behavior stack script. Baffling for a newbie.

IN the bug Mark Waddington writes: "I'm going to cease thinking of this as an enhancement request, and instead as a bug - the method used currently is too opaque."

opaque is an understatement. Virtually Impenetrable may be better.

Stack files Wow... that works!

So why not just declared this asap  and very, very explicitly in the new documentation, ugly and as verbose as this appears, this is what we need:

---------

"In order to use script only stacks  as behaviors in specific controls, these must be loaded as stack files so that they are placed into the message path along with the scripts of your main stack. In your main stack (or substacks that may use them)   Use the inspector, choose stack files and browse to choose your script on disk.

Unlike button behaviors which are embedded in your stack, you must be sure to include these stacks later when you move, package or distribute your main stack. Also be aware that the main stack cannot track changes to the location of these stack files. If you move them on disk the reference to the stack will fail and you will need to update the stack files and point to the stack in it's new locations.

Also note that it if you use "open" to open your script only stack file... it is still not in the message path and your behaviors will fail, furthermore, if you put "start using stack" (in an open stack, preopenstack  handler) to load your script only stack, it will receive all messages from the stack and not just from the child control to which it is assigned. e.g. if your intent is for the child control(s) to respond to "on mouseup"  this will not work if you do "start using" for your script-only stack."

-----------


From blueback09 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 22:57:03 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:57:03 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <CA+S82Dp0_LQpBA3H4mj-vzrkXecZAb=ipKDaz00+BKnJXE-Wog@mail.gmail.com>

I just tried reproducing your actions and now I'm confused. All I did was
make a new stack, drag a field onto it, then put:

on mouseUp
put "hello" & cr after me
end mouseUp

When I left-click, nothing happens, even though I can double click to
select words and I can left-click-drag to highlight words.

When I right-click, the field's script runs and "hello" appears in the
field.

The field doesn't even get "mouseUp" (or mouseDown for that matter) when I
left-click, but it does when I right-click.

I'm using 8dp13. Is that supposed to happen?

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <
brahma at hindu.org> wrote:

> @ Richard:
>
> I looked at the bug 8993 . The problem is... what does "loaded" actually
> mean?
>
> After two days of research, study and testing and responses here...
>  I *still* could not  figure it out (until now thanks to your tip on stack
> files)
>
> Indeed a serious confusion/conundrum for a new comer.
>
> Create script-only.livecode stack
>
> script "script-only"
> on mouseup
>    Put "Hello" into me
> end mouseup
>
> Save, open and apply as behavior to field. lock field, click on it..
> nothing happens. msg is not sent to the behavior script.
>
> put  this into preopenstack
>
> start using stack  "[path-to]/script-only.livecode"
>
> Now the madness begins: the stack accepts mousedown from *anywhere* on the
> UI and triggers an error, because "me" is not the field to which the
> behavior was applied.
>
>  changing the preopenstack handler to
>
> open stack  "[path-to]/script-only.livecode"
>
> does not "load" it as such.. it is open, You can see it if you were to set
> behaviors it is there in the dropdown menu under the inspector but the
> field that has it set as a behavior does not trigger the mouseup in the
> behavior stack script. Baffling for a newbie.
>
> IN the bug Mark Waddington writes: "I'm going to cease thinking of this as
> an enhancement request, and instead as a bug - the method used currently is
> too opaque."
>
> opaque is an understatement. Virtually Impenetrable may be better.
>
> Stack files Wow... that works!
>
> So why not just declared this asap  and very, very explicitly in the new
> documentation, ugly and as verbose as this appears, this is what we need:
>
> ---------
>
> "In order to use script only stacks  as behaviors in specific controls,
> these must be loaded as stack files so that they are placed into the
> message path along with the scripts of your main stack. In your main stack
> (or substacks that may use them)   Use the inspector, choose stack files
> and browse to choose your script on disk.
>
> Unlike button behaviors which are embedded in your stack, you must be sure
> to include these stacks later when you move, package or distribute your
> main stack. Also be aware that the main stack cannot track changes to the
> location of these stack files. If you move them on disk the reference to
> the stack will fail and you will need to update the stack files and point
> to the stack in it's new locations.
>
> Also note that it if you use "open" to open your script only stack file...
> it is still not in the message path and your behaviors will fail,
> furthermore, if you put "start using stack" (in an open stack,
> preopenstack  handler) to load your script only stack, it will receive all
> messages from the stack and not just from the child control to which it is
> assigned. e.g. if your intent is for the child control(s) to respond to "on
> mouseup"  this will not work if you do "start using" for your script-only
> stack."
>
> -----------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Mar 30 22:59:20 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:59:20 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FC9288.6090509@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

 > Also note that it if you use "open" to open your script only stack
 > file... it is still not in the message path

It doesn't need to be in the message path.  It just needs to be in 
memory.  My earlier posts offered three different ways to load a stack 
into memory.


 > and your behaviors will fail, furthermore, if you put "start using
 > stack" (in an open stack, preopenstack  handler) to load your script
 > only stack, it will receive all messages from the stack and not just
 > from the child control to which it is assigned.

That's true, but it's also true that if you decide to insert a script 
into the frontScripts or backscripts it will also be global in scope.

I'm not sure we need to overload that Dictionary entry with every 
possible thing people might do.

Most folks use "start using" and "insert script" when they want a 
specific global availability.  I think it's fine that those Dict entries 
handle those.

For the behaviors Dict entry, rather than list all the things we might 
not want to do it seems better to just provide at least a couple ways to 
do what we actually want to do.

Any of the three methods I mentioned earlier will work.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From brahma at hindu.org  Wed Mar 30 23:29:14 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 03:29:14 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FC9288.6090509@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FC9288.6090509@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fc9989.7d7007c6.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>

For script-only stack.. what are the other two methods besides adding them as stack files?



On March 30, 2016 at 4:59:45 PM, Richard Gaskin (ambassador at fourthworld.com<mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com>) wrote:

Any of the three methods I mentioned earlier will work.

From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 23:32:03 2016
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:32:03 +0800
Subject: Preferences file
In-Reply-To: <56FC4886.10104@ahsoftware.net>
References: <56FC1A47.5070909@ahsoftware.net>
	<C5385BE2-1E0F-4F04-90BB-517B251B19E9@gmail.com>
	<56FC4886.10104@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <CA+uh5kj+5+LdZZCcW730UNNo3JiUhjjJbTO9g5hZBMNjWkm69g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 5:43 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> Don't know why it wasn't there earlier today.
> Took the cats to the vet, came back, and there it was.
>
Mountain Lion was the last cat friendly OS X.  ;-)



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 00:16:56 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:16:56 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fc9989.7d7007c6.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fc9989.7d7007c6.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FCA4B8.2040105@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> For script-only stack.. what are the other two methods besides adding them as stack files?

AFAIK there's nothing about loading stacks that's specific to 
script-only stacks.  Stacks are stacks, binary or script-only we work 
with them the same.  The difference is the storage format on disk.

Here's my post noting the other two ways (in addition to using the 
stackFiles property) of loading stacks into memory:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225249.html>

in brief:
1. Open them
2. Read any property from them

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com        http://www.FourthWorld.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar 31 01:44:10 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 00:44:10 -0500
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82Dp0_LQpBA3H4mj-vzrkXecZAb=ipKDaz00+BKnJXE-Wog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<CA+S82Dp0_LQpBA3H4mj-vzrkXecZAb=ipKDaz00+BKnJXE-Wog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FCB92A.8060200@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/30/2016 9:57 PM, Matt Maier wrote:
> I just tried reproducing your actions and now I'm confused. All I did was
> make a new stack, drag a field onto it, then put:
>
> on mouseUp
> put "hello" & cr after me
> end mouseUp
>
> When I left-click, nothing happens, even though I can double click to
> select words and I can left-click-drag to highlight words.
>
> When I right-click, the field's script runs and "hello" appears in the
> field.
>
> The field doesn't even get "mouseUp" (or mouseDown for that matter) when I
> left-click, but it does when I right-click.
>
> I'm using 8dp13. Is that supposed to happen?

Yes, that's normal behavior. If a field is editable, a right-click 
generates editing messages like openField, enterField, etc. If the field 
is not editable (it's locked) then it will get mouseUp messages. An 
editable field will also get mouseUp on a right-click (useful for 
generating a contextual menu.)

But in the context of this thread, placing the handler directly into the 
field script isn't the same thing as assigning a behavior to the field.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar 31 01:46:50 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 00:46:50 -0500
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FCB92A.8060200@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<CA+S82Dp0_LQpBA3H4mj-vzrkXecZAb=ipKDaz00+BKnJXE-Wog@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FCB92A.8060200@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56FCB9CA.1070900@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/31/2016 12:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> If a field is editable, a right-click generates editing messages

Typo. Should say "left click". Oops.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 31 01:55:36 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 05:55:36 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FCA4B8.2040105@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fc9989.7d7007c6.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FCA4B8.2040105@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>

On March 30, 2016 at 6:17:20 PM, Richard Gaskin (ambassador at fourthworld.com<mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com>) wrote:

Here's my post noting the other two ways (in addition to using the
stackFiles property) of loading stacks into memory:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225249.html>

in brief:
1. Open them

# this did not work for me earlier today

2. Read any property from them

# have yet to try that..

3. Adding stack files and restarting the stack works

Forgive me for seeming to be obtuse.  It's partly deliberate because the discourse is  opaque enough to make using script-only stacks for behaviors challenging --  gaps in the picture of "exactly what should I do?"  so I thought we might get some "ghee" out of the churn  -- clear instructions, for everyone -- and also because I really want to go this modular direction so I tend to dig, dig, dig until all the worms are out of the can and crawling on the table. Gold may appear.

I did read your post and I did try to put my script-only stack  into memory by using "open" in the preopenstack of the main stack.

But it did not work. The child called out, (mouse up on field) but the parent didn't hear it even though he was in the room (in memory via "open)

 I will test again tomorrow after letting LC8 rest over night. The LC8 IDE has a  referencing issues... and is "losing the target" in a number of scenarios. Like the case of deleting an object on your card and watching while a button in the inspector palette disappears instead. Msg path gone awry until you restart. The failure of mouseup to not trigger the behavior when the parent stack is in memory already... smells like a similar fish...

I agree BTW -- "parent" is a  much more helpful term.. we use that in CSS and XML... so why not here? I've even start replacing "behavior" with "parent" in my head, as it helps keep things straight.

POINT:  though you may not want to overload the dictionary, something more is needed.  Who has contributing rights?    I could give is a shot (much more concise.)

Mahalo for your near-infinite patience!



From toolbook at kestner.de  Thu Mar 31 04:02:13 2016
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 10:02:13 +0200
Subject: AW: LC 8.0 DP16  Failed to load external
In-Reply-To: <012801d18a6b$470308d0$d5091a70$@kestner.de>
References: <012801d18a6b$470308d0$d5091a70$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <003001d18b23$a2ec5ad0$e8c51070$@kestner.de>

SOLVED

Though I can't reproduce the error anymore, I am almost sure it was an
incompatible version of the revxml.dll or revzip.dll. I copied the latest
version of these dlls from the LC 8 program dir into my test environment and
now my LC 8.0 runtime starts without error.

Thanks
Tiemo

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Tiemo Hollmann TB
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. M?rz 2016 12:03
An: LiveCode User Liste senden <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Betreff: LC 8.0 DP16 Failed to load external

Hello,

after a long break I am testing LC 8.0 DP16, because I wanted to answer the
latest LC survey, if I still need LC 6

I am using two externals, which work in the IDE. For building the
standalone, these externals are selected in the standalone settings under
"script libraries" and the externals are in a folder "Externals", which
resides in the standalone directory.

When starting the standalone I get an "Initialization Error - failed to load
external". After OK the startup quits. No information, which external
couldn't be loaded.

With LC 6.7.8 and 7.1.1 the standalone is loaded without error and works.

Has there something been changed with loading externals in 8.0? Any idea
what is going wrong here, or what I could check for?

Thanks for any ideas

Tiemo

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From toolbook at kestner.de  Thu Mar 31 04:08:57 2016
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 10:08:57 +0200
Subject: Which stack hosts the externals in runtime?
Message-ID: <003101d18b24$93f3d890$bbdb89b0$@kestner.de>

Hello,

with: put the externalPackages of stack "home" you can check in the IDE,
which externals are loaded.

 

I thought in runtime the externals would be loaded into the mainstack, so
that you could ask for: put the externalPackages of stack "<myMainStack>"

But in my case this shows me just 1 out of 4 externals. How can I check, if
and which externals are loaded in runtime?

 

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 



From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Thu Mar 31 04:14:20 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 01:14:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459387799247-4702842.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459387799247-4702842.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459412060471-4702854.post@n4.nabble.com>

Alejandro Tejada wrote
> By the way, while looking for a script to convert a color in a mask,
> (for example: convert bright green color of an image to alphadata)
> I just found that Bernd already answer this Design Challenge, 
> back in 2011:
> 
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6525
> 
> From this 5 years old thread, download his stack:
> alphaData.livecode.zip
> 
> Thankfully, working in these scripts unveiled
> a recent bug that was just confirmed:
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17257
> 
> Alejandro

And it unveiled another bug
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17277
setting maskData changes imageData irreversibly. 

Setting AlphaData is reversible and OK.

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702854.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 06:24:53 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:24:53 +0300
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56FCFAF5.2080706@gmail.com>

Why does THIS not work:

  set the imageSource of graphic "ggg" to 1003

?

Richmond.



From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Thu Mar 31 06:09:34 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 03:09:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <56FCFAF5.2080706@gmail.com>
References: <1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FCFAF5.2080706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1459418974985-4702856.post@n4.nabble.com>

This works

set the backgroundpattern of grc 1 to 1004

as for "imageSource" -> from the dictionary:

"Specifies an image to be displayed in place of the specified character in a
field."

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702856.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 06:40:07 2016
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (RM)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:40:07 +0300
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f85e2e.3fc4d196.713@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <56FCFE87.2010305@gmail.com>

Am I being stupid?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ce57yiy7xj4k9j0/Round%20Corners.livecode.zip?dl=0

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26933

Richmond.



From pmbrig at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 09:07:08 2016
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:07:08 -0400
Subject: Using Behaviors for Triggering UI Design - Run Time
In-Reply-To: <56FBDA66.1070101@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fb5b14.93ee3f3.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FBDA66.1070101@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B1DBCA4F-F1B8-4797-A2E2-A369E2875607@gmail.com>

On Mar 30, 2016, at 9:53 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> In all cases, once set a behavior is resolved to a "rugged long ID", a long ID where the stack portion is changed from the full file path as we normally find it to just the stack name, allowing portability.
> 
> For example:
> 
>   button id 1004 of cd id 1003 of stack "/home/rg/something/rsrc.livecode"
> 
> ...becomes:
> 
>   button id of cd id 1003 of stack "rsrc"
> 
> 
> So when using a stack as a behavior you can write:
> 
>   set the behavior of btn "Something" to the long id of stack "rsrc"
> 
> ...or even more simply, since stack names are already unique:
> 
>   set the behavior of btn "Something" to the name of stack "rsrc"

FWIW, here are some handlers that return these "rugged" object references.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

--------

getProp robustID
   ----  a virtual property  ----
   -- getting the long id of a control can result in different values depending on
   --    (a) where the stack is stored on the user's disk and
   --    (b) which card is the currentcard when the property is fetched
   -- the robustID is consistent no matter what card is current
   --    and no matter which folder the user has stored the stack in;
   -- format: button id 1039 of bkgnd id 1003 of stack "subStack1"
   --            of stack "tMainStack"
   -- the robustID can be used as a complete object reference,
   --    just like the long ID
   -- requires q()
   
   put the long id of the target into tLongID
   if not (there is a tLongID) then
      -- in case the group is not placed on the currentcard
      replace "group " with "bkgnd " in tLongID
      if not (there is a tLongID) then
         return "robustID: no such object." -- error
      end if
   end if
   replace " stack " with cr in tLongID
   put line -1 of tLongID into mainStackFileName
   replace quote with empty in mainStackFileName
   put the short name of stack mainStackFileName into mainStackName
   put q(mainStackName) into line -1 of tLongID
   replace cr with "stack " in tLongID
   replace " of " with cr in tLongID
   put lineoffset(cr & "card ",cr & tLongID) into cdLineNbr
   if cdLineNbr > 1 then delete line cdLineNbr of tLongID
   replace cr with " of " in tLongID
   return tLongID
end robustID

getProp robustName
   ----  a virtual property  ----
   -- getting the long name of a control can result in different values depending on
   --    (a) where the stack is stored on the user's disk and
   --    (b) which card is the currentcard when the property is fetched
   -- the robustName is consistent no matter what card is current
   --    and no matter which folder the user has stored the stack in;
   -- format: button "copyText" of bkgnd "fieldGp" of stack "substack1"
   --            of stack "myMainStack"
   -- the robustName can be used as a complete object reference,
   --    just like the long name
   -- requires q()
   
   put the long name of the target into tLongName
   if not (there is a tLongName) then
      -- in case the group is not placed on the currentcard
      replace "group " with "bkgnd " in tLongName
      if not (there is a tLongName) then
         return "robustName: no such object." -- error
      end if
   end if
   replace " stack " with cr in tLongName
   put line -1 of tLongName into mainStackFileName
   if the number of lines of tLongName = 1 then
      return the name of mainStackFileName
   end if
   replace quote with empty in mainStackFileName
   put the short name of stack mainStackFileName into mainStackName
   put q(mainStackName) into line -1 of tLongName
   replace cr with " stack " in tLongName
   replace " of " with cr in tLongName
   put lineoffset(cr & "card ", cr & tLongName) into cdLineNbr
   if cdLineNbr > 1 then delete line cdLineNbr of tLongName
   repeat with c = 1 to the number of lines of tLongName
      put line c to -1 of tLongName into ctrlName
      replace cr with " of " in ctrlName
      put the name of ctrlName into thisName
      put thisName into line c of tLongName
   end repeat
   replace cr with " of " in tLongName
   return tLongName
end robustName

function q pStr
   -- quote
   return quote & pStr & quote
end q




From toolbook at kestner.de  Thu Mar 31 09:43:33 2016
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:43:33 +0200
Subject: AW: Are there any cumulative release notes?
In-Reply-To: <56FBEB1C.6040704@fourthworld.com>
References: <015501d18a8a$513283c0$f3978b40$@kestner.de>
	<56FBEB1C.6040704@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <004701d18b53$5221fa80$f665ef80$@kestner.de>

Hi Richard,
thanks for your helpful explanations and the links
Tiemo


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Richard Gaskin
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. M?rz 2016 17:05
An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Betreff: Re: Are there any cumulative release notes?

Tiemo Hollmann wrote:

 > I have this "failed to load external" failure and am searching, what  >
might have changed between LC 6 and 7/8, because all settings are the  >
same between my versions, but with LC 7/8 I can't load my externals  >
anymore.
 >
 > I am sure there must have been changed something very obvious, what I  >
don't see. I started to read the release notes, but that is pretty  >
cumbersome to read every single DP release note from 6.7. upward to  > look
for a relevant change on handling externals and I don't even  > have all
intermediate version installed.
 >
 > Are there any kind of "cumulative release notes" or a better approach  >
to look for the source of my problem.

In general the Release Notes for a given feature version (X.X, as opposed to
what is usually a bug-fix-only version X.X.X) will include all aggregate
notes from earlier builds in that series.

For example, the Release Notes for the latest Stable release, 7.1.3, include
changes going back to 7.1.0 (see the "Specific bug fixes" 
section at the bottom of each Release Notes PDF).

I believe this aggregation by feature version strikes a practical balance
between requiring too many Release Notes and having Release Notes too
cumbersomely long to be read.  After all, if they were aggregated with
previous feature releases where would the relevant cutoff be?  The document
could become as large as the install itself.

In your case, since the issue is evident in both v7 and v8 you may not need
to review v8 Release Notes at all.  And since there have been only two
significant releases of v7 (7.0 and 7.1) you should only need to review the
Release Notes for the latest build of each:

<http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/7_0_6/LiveCodeNotes-7_0_6.pdf>
<http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/7_1_3/LiveCodeNotes-7_1_3.pdf>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 11:04:45 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:04:45 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

 > On March 30, 2016 at 6:17:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> in brief:
 >> 1. Open them
 >
 > # this did not work for me earlier today

What exactly happened?

It may be helpful while demystifying this to work with ordinary stack 
files for your behavior scripts.  There's really no difference between 
ordinary stack files and script-only stack files beyond the storage 
format, but if nothing else sense you're already confident in your use 
of normal stacks it may help you focus on the things that may actually 
be the source of the problem.

In this case, with opening a stack used as a behavior script, I'd guess 
that the problem wasn't that the stack couldn't be opened, but that it 
failed to resolve as a behavior for another object.

If that hunch is correct then the problem isn't with the script-only 
stacks or even how you opened them.  The problem is with the strangely 
finicky way behaviors are resolved.  As I wrote yesterday:

    NOTE: a long-standing source of confusion and frustration with
    behaviors is that the object holding the behavior script must
    be in memory when any stack containing objects subscribed to it
    is loaded.

    When behaviors are in the same stack file the engine figures it
    out on its own.  But if the behaviors are in a separate stack
    file (regardless of whether it's script-only or normal) that
    separate stack file must be in memory first.

    In some cases this can mean introducing a new stack only for
    the purpose of loading your others so that they load in an
    order that will allow behaviors to be resolved correctly.

    Another option is to write a script that works on preOpenStack
    and walks through each object setting the object's behavior
    property to the object's behavior property, which forces
    resolution of the information already known to the engine but
    not loaded in the finicky order it requires.

    A request to simplify this has been submitted:
    <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8993>

Given that this finicky quality has been around as long as parentScripts 
themselves (er, "behaviors" <g>), I don't expect to see it addressed 
soon.  Would be nice, but there are bigger fish to fry with v8 right now.

So we just need to make sure that anything containing a behavior script 
is in memory when anything that relies on that behavior script is put 
into memory.

Review the sequence of stack opening you'd tried earlier and see if 
that's not what had caused your earlier problem with opening the 
behavior definition stacks.


 >> 2. Read any property from them
 >
 > # have yet to try that..

It's kinda handy sometimes because it needs to unpack the stack file to 
be able to obtain a property value, but since it's not truly opening the 
stack per se it never shows visibly and doesn't trigger the open- 
messages (preOpenStack, preOpenCard, openStack, etc.).



 > 3. Adding stack files and restarting the stack works

The stackFiles is an old property predating behaviors, but useful for 
many things like image ID resolution and more - a good fit for any 
problem where you have multiple stack files used by a single stack that 
relies on them.

I rarely use it because my runtime setup is very different from my 
development setup (most external stack files are used on multiple 
projects and reside in a very different folder from the relative 
position they'll be to the app's mainstack when deployed).  But I miss 
it.  Very handy.


 > Forgive me for seeming to be obtuse.  It's partly deliberate because
 > the discourse is  opaque enough to make using script-only stacks for
 > behaviors challenging --  gaps in the picture of "exactly what should
 > I do?"  so I thought we might get some "ghee" out of the churn  --
 > clear instructions, for everyone -- and also because I really want to
 > go this modular direction so I tend to dig, dig, dig until all the
 > worms are out of the can and crawling on the table. Gold may appear.

It can seem daunting when you're making so many changes at once, since 
that makes it hard to pin down the root cause of an issue.

But I think we can boil down text-optimized development in a few simple 
guidelines:

1. Use libraries for as much global availability as practical,
    and use behaviors for as much object-specific availability
    as practical.

2. When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
    must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
    memory.

3. A library can be any stack, regardless whether it's a mainstack
    or substack.

4. A behavior definition can be any button or stack.

5. The format of the stack on disk (whether saved as an ordinary
    binary stack or as a script-only stack) only affects what gets
    saved in the file, but has no affect on how we work with them
    in memory.


Far harder than any of this is learning to use GitHub. :)



 > I did read your post and I did try to put my script-only stack  into
 > memory by using "open" in the preopenstack of the main stack.
 >
 > But it did not work. The child called out, (mouse up on field) but
 > the parent didn't hear it even though he was in the room (in memory
 > via "open)

I suspect that's because of the loading order (#2 above).  But let us 
know if you find otherwise.


 > I will test again tomorrow after letting LC8 rest over night. The
 > LC8 IDE has a  referencing issues... and is "losing the target" in
 > a number of scenarios. Like the case of deleting an object on your
 > card and watching while a button in the inspector palette disappears
 > instead. Msg path gone awry until you restart. The failure of mouseup
 > to not trigger the behavior when the parent stack is in memory
 > already... smells like a similar fish...

Please report those, or if already reported add your notes confirming 
the issue.

For most of LC's life there has only ever been two versions:  current 
and past.  Current is whatever is in development, and the past is 
whatever used to be in development and reached end-of-life when a newer 
version becomes current.

During this long process of moving from the v5-and-earlier world into 
the modern world that can fulfill the Kickstarter goals, we've 
temporarily been indulging in a very expensive process in which the team 
has been maintaining three very different versions (6,7, and now 8) 
simultaneously.   There were good reasons for this, given the scope of 
monster tasks like Cocoa, Unicode, and others, but it's unsustainable.

It's time to return to the normal world most software projects have, and 
LiveCode used to have, in which there is only one version in active 
development.

It's critically important that issues found in v8.0 be reported and 
addressed.  If reports add another week or two to the development cycle, 
that's far better than releasing it and having those issues still present.

Please do report issues you find.  It takes only as much time as 
describing them here, but makes them actionable for the team so they can 
be resolved.



 > I agree BTW -- "parent" is a  much more helpful term.. we use that in
 > CSS and XML... so why not here? I've even start replacing "behavior"
 > with "parent" in my head, as it helps keep things straight.

I believe it's more specific and less ambiguous (so many properties 
alter the behavior of an object; the word "behavior" is so very broadly 
used that it makes writing about that specific property somewhat 
cumbersome at time).  "ParentScript" was the original name for the 
property and last I looked it remains a reserved token.

But we're so far down this road with the newer "behavior" that I think 
we're just stuck with yet another learning impairment in the language 
going forward.

Oh well.  Better than not having the feature at all.


 > POINT:  though you may not want to overload the dictionary, something
 > more is needed.  Who has contributing rights?    I could give is a
 > shot (much more concise.)

That would be most welcome.  They made a blog post with the relevant 
links introducing the process of community enhancement of the docs:
<https://livecode.com/putting-the-you-in-documentation/>


 > Mahalo for your near-infinite patience!

Happy to help.  Just paying it forward.  You should have seen some of my 
posts on the MetaCard list circa '98.  I was moving from SuperCard, 
where we only had a single custom property set, and was having a very 
difficult time wrapping my head around the syntax for working with 
multiple property sets.  Kevin Miller and Scott Raney were far more 
patient with me back then than I've ever been. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From mark at livecode.com  Thu Mar 31 11:22:19 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:22:19 +0200
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <dbb10c406201bf1a18618df2b4ad8358@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-31 17:04, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Happy to help.  Just paying it forward.  You should have seen some of
> my posts on the MetaCard list circa '98.  I was moving from SuperCard,
> where we only had a single custom property set, and was having a very
> difficult time wrapping my head around the syntax for working with
> multiple property sets.  Kevin Miller and Scott Raney were far more
> patient with me back then than I've ever been. :)

I still have a difficult time wrapping my head around the syntax for 
multiple custom property sets - especially since the introduction of 
nested arrays:

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6912

;)

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com  Thu Mar 31 11:05:14 2016
From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:05:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IMG resize advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <F169225E-9016-4F49-B2E7-394919D4CCC8@thehales.id.au>
References: <1459131095067-4702682.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<F169225E-9016-4F49-B2E7-394919D4CCC8@thehales.id.au>
Message-ID: <1459436714203-4702862.post@n4.nabble.com>

Thanks for elaborating on that, James. 



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IMG-resize-advice-wanted-tp4702682p4702862.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 31 11:44:03 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:44:03 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>

Folks:
Reading this kinda makes my head spin. Now I?m thinking it is going to be a heck of a lot more robust for my situation, as a single developer, to not use behaviors at all, but to have a single (possibly script only) substack that holds all of the handlers that I would normally use as behaviors, and just put a call to that handler in each button. I can use ?the target?  or ?me? as a passed variable to make the action specific to a particular control.

This approach seems a lot less prone to idiosyncrasies and more easily transportable to other apps, to me. It also means that all of my ?behavior type scripts? would sit in a single script-only stack, which would make it a lot more convenient to access and edit than a bunch of small script only stacks sitting in my project browser.

Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?

Best,
Bill

> On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> 
> > On March 30, 2016 at 6:17:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >
> >> in brief:
> >> 1. Open them
> >
> > # this did not work for me earlier today
> 
> What exactly happened?
> 




From th.douez at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 11:46:49 2016
From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:46:49 +0200
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
References: <etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
	<19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <CAO8ucO5UuRS_yjOb1CE7BbQ3_THTLFLe-UQoAnMdXP=B_pXwNQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?
>

?You are brilliant !!!

Mmm, as long as you don't need behaviors :)

Kind regards,

Thierry

-------------------?

Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage


From heather at livecode.com  Thu Mar 31 11:49:10 2016
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:49:10 +0100
Subject: Using LC for Interactive Tutorial
Message-ID: <BAAB5F09-2FC2-47CB-A884-2E13C613A6E9@livecode.com>

Dear List folk,

Really cool blog post from Ali today:

https://livecode.com/livecode-interactive-tutorials/ <https://livecode.com/livecode-interactive-tutorials/>

Find out how to write your own interactive tutorial using the building blocks Ali has provided.

Warm Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com





From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 31 11:57:27 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:57:27 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <CAO8ucO5UuRS_yjOb1CE7BbQ3_THTLFLe-UQoAnMdXP=B_pXwNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
	<19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<CAO8ucO5UuRS_yjOb1CE7BbQ3_THTLFLe-UQoAnMdXP=B_pXwNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F04B2BD4-EBCB-4BBB-B014-4B3F78738EA5@earthednet.org>

Thierry:
Thanks! As an afterthought, I should have added an ?all of the above? choice because I visit each of those intellectual realms frequently.
Best,
Bill

> On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Thierry Douez <th.douez at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?
>> 
> 
> ?You are brilliant !!!
> 
> Mmm, as long as you don't need behaviors :)
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Thierry
> 
> -------------------?
> 
> Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
> sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 12:06:57 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:06:57 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <dbb10c406201bf1a18618df2b4ad8358@livecode.com>
References: <dbb10c406201bf1a18618df2b4ad8358@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <56FD4B21.1000101@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:
 > I still have a difficult time wrapping my head around the syntax for
 > multiple custom property sets - especially since the introduction of
 > nested arrays:
 >
 > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6912
 >
 > ;)

This reminds me of a hypothesis I have that perhaps you can confirm:

When we use array syntax on custom property sets we have effectively a 
sort of two-dimensional array.  Would be nice to extend that deeper, but 
I'll take what I get.

But when we put an array into a custom property value such as:

put "foo" into bar[1]
set the uBar of btn 1 to bar

...it seems we can store that even though it hasn't been explicitly 
serialized.

So my hunch is that when we do that the engine is using the same 
serialization it uses for arrayEncode, and when retrieving the array it 
automatically runs it through the internal equivalent of arrayDecode.

Is that correct?

If not, by what sorcery are array values serialized when stored as 
persistent property values?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From cszasz at mac.com  Thu Mar 31 12:39:18 2016
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 10:39:18 -0600
Subject: Screen Resolution Dialog problem with Windows 10
Message-ID: <11A0AB3D-444A-4F47-A160-F6C1B48796DC@mac.com>

An user reported seeing a screen resolution dialog in one of my programs that requests a screen resolution of 1024x768 be used. The problem is that  the user reportedly is using a screen resolution of 1920x1080.   She is using Windows 10. 

I am using LC 6.1.2 and use the following code in my app stack:

on checkForScreenSize
   
   IF the platform is "win32" 
   then
      if item 3 of the screenRect < 1024 or item 4 of the screenRect < 768 then
         answer error "The Assistant software requires a minimum 1024x768 screen resolution. Please check your Control Panel." with "OK"
         quit 
      end if
   end if
   
   if the platform = "MacOS"
   then
      if item 3 of the screenRect < 1024 or item 4 of the screenRect < 768 then
         answer error "The Assistant software requires a minimum 1024x768 screen resolution. Please check your Display Preferences." with "OK"
         quit
      end if
   end if
  
end checkForScreenSize

Has anybody encountered this problem with Windows 10?

Charles Szasz
cszasz at mac.com






From effendi at wanadoo.fr  Thu Mar 31 12:40:15 2016
From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 18:40:15 +0200
Subject: LiveCode Video Display with QuickTime on a PC ?
Message-ID: <FC30C6D1-7557-4DB9-8A1C-FB56C9AD59E5@wanadoo.fr>

Hi from Beautiful Brittany,

I?m confused - I want to create a PC version of a stack which plays
videos (external) on demand. The files are either .mov or .mp4.
The stack works perfectly on my Mac, but when I run it on a PC
the video display will not work (no QT).  So I have questions :

If I install Quicktime (Version 7) on the PC, what do I have to do to
allow it to run the videos , or is it transparent, as with Mac OS ?
If (as I have read) QT doesn?t run well on a PC, if I convert all the
video files to .AVI (using Windows Live Movie Maker ?), will video
display then work properly ? Obviously, I prefer QuickTime ?..

Is there anything else I shold know ? LiveCode information concerning
video display with QT on a PC is very vague. I?m running V 5.5.

Thanks

-Francis


From mark at livecode.com  Thu Mar 31 12:44:36 2016
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 18:44:36 +0200
Subject: !
In-Reply-To: <56FD4B21.1000101@fourthworld.com>
References: <dbb10c406201bf1a18618df2b4ad8358@livecode.com>
	<56FD4B21.1000101@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <006d6fd68e8a67fa859800141de3ef41@livecode.com>

On 2016-03-31 18:06, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> When we use array syntax on custom property sets we have effectively a
> sort of two-dimensional array.  Would be nice to extend that deeper,
> but I'll take what I get.

Well, that 'anomaly' is basically about the fact that custom property 
set syntax is 'the wrong way round' (in some sense) to allow arbitrarily 
nested [] on custom properties to work. If custom property sets had 
never existed, and you just had custom properties, then we could have 
had:

   the foo of tObject - the foo custom property
   the foo["bar"] of tObject - the bar key of the (array valued) foo 
custom property
   the foo["bar"]["baz"] of tObject - the baz key of the bar key of the 
(array valued) foo custom property

However, what we have is:

   the foo of tObject - the foo custom property
   the foo["bar"] of tObject - the bar custom property in the foo custom 
property set

The second form here is very different from the second form above. This 
is a bit of a shame really, as it would have been much easier to think 
about if we could have made the equivalence:

   the foo[a]...[z] of tObject === (the foo of tObject)[a]...[z]

> But when we put an array into a custom property value such as:
> 
> put "foo" into bar[1]
> set the uBar of btn 1 to bar
> 
> ...it seems we can store that even though it hasn't been explicitly 
> serialized.
> 
> So my hunch is that when we do that the engine is using the same
> serialization it uses for arrayEncode, and when retrieving the array
> it automatically runs it through the internal equivalent of
> arrayDecode.
> 
> Is that correct?

Well, implementation-wise, the 'default custom property set' is the 
custom property set with name 'empty'; and internally each object has a 
linked list of named custom property sets. Each custom property set does 
and always had the same representational power as a LiveCode variable. 
So when nested arrays were added, custom properties gained the ability 
to hold arrays too. Since 7, all a custom property set is is a (name, 
array) pair, where the array part maps custom property names in that set 
to their values.

> If not, by what sorcery are array values serialized when stored as
> persistent property values?

Well, there was a fair bit of sorcery involved way back when nested 
arrays were added as we wanted to try and squeeze them into the file 
format without breaking backwards compatibility.

However, the principal motivation (if I remember correctly, at least - 
we are going back many many years here) for arrayEncoding was to enable 
custom property sets to serialize array values.

Anyway, to summarise, when in memory a custom property set is just an 
array (which is looked up in a linked list by name) - this array maps 
custom property names to values. When written out to disk (in 7+ format 
- pre-6.7 format had to do horrendous things which I never want to have 
to look at again) each custom property set is serialized as the name 
followed by the arrayEncoding of the array.

Hopefully that all makes sense...

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 12:52:46 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:52:46 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
References: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>

William Prothero wrote:

 > Reading this kinda makes my head spin. Now I?m thinking it is going
 > to be a heck of a lot more robust for my situation, as a single
 > developer, to not use behaviors at all, but to have a single
 > (possibly script only) substack that holds all of the handlers that I
 > would normally use as behaviors, and just put a call to that handler
 > in each button. I can use ?the target?  or ?me? as a passed variable
 > to make the action specific to a particular control.
 >
 > This approach seems a lot less prone to idiosyncrasies and more
 > easily transportable to other apps, to me. It also means that all of
 > my ?behavior type scripts? would sit in a single script-only stack,
 > which would make it a lot more convenient to access and edit than a
 > bunch of small script only stacks sitting in my project browser.
 >
 > Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?

Behaviors are very powerful for all sorts of things, whether you work 
alone or in a team of twenty.

The biggest benefit for teamwork comes from the very separate question 
of whether to use script-only stacks to define behaviors.  Script-only 
stacks are an ideal solution for Github-based workflows, but have 
minimal value (some, but not as much) for anyone not dependent on a 
version control system designed for other languages.

Ditch script-only stacks for now and continue to explore behaviors. 
You'll thank me.  You'll want to buy me lunch next time I'm in Santa 
Barbara.  I'll accept.  Behaviors will change everything, very 
powerfully, the more you explore and use them.

Once we step away from the very separate issue of script-only stacks, we 
have really only two guidelines for using behaviors effectively:

- A behavior definition can be any button or stack.

- When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
   must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
   memory.

That's it.

When exploring a new feature I like to make a simple stack I can use as 
a playground to poke around and experiment without mucking up anything 
important I'm working on.

Here's a quick tutorial that may get you hooked on the power of behaviors:

1. Make a new stack titled "Behavior Playground"

2. Add a button named "MyClass"

3. Set the script of that button to:

     on mouseUp
        answer the name of me
     end mouseUp

There - you've just created a behavior, defining an action for what will 
be an entire class of custom button objects:

4. Make a new button named "A"

5. In the Message Box run:

    set the behavior of btn "A" to the long id of btn "MyClass"

6. Make two copies of btn "A", naming them "B" and "C" respectively.

7. Click any of them.

What you'll see is that each of them uses the script of button "MyClass" 
as if it's their own, bringing up an answer dialog showing the unique 
name of each.

At this point your mind is already thinking of a dozen times in recent 
projects where you have several objects you wanted to work the same 
without affecting any other scripts.  We could leave it here and you'd 
be off writing behaviors very productively right now.

But we're going to take this one step further - we'll create a superclass:

8. Make a new button named "MySuperClass"

9. Set this script of that button to:

    on mouseDown
       grab me
    end mouseDown

10. In the Message Box run:

   set the behavior of btn "MyClass" to the long id of btn "MySuperClass"

11. Drag any of the "A", "B", or "C" buttons.

In just 11 steps, each taking only a few seconds, you've just created a 
rich hierarchy of custom messaging:

       "A" "B" "C"
         \  |  /
          \ | /
         MyClass
            |
            |
      MySuperClass


If you wanted the drag behavior used for an entirely different set of 
objects that do something else on mouseUp, you could make another button 
named "MyOtherClass" and extend your scope of custom controls even further:

  "A" "B" "C" "D" "E" "F"
    \  |  /     \  |  /
     \ | /       \ | /
    MyClass   MyOtherClass
        \         /
         \       /
        MySuperClass

Behaviors can be chained as deeply as you like, allowing for very rich 
class hierarchies.

This will get you started.  And it only takes a few minutes to explore.


------ EXTRA CREDIT -------

After you feel comfortable with this, an extra credit exercise might be 
explore overriding and overloading.

Overriding is blocking an action defined in a parent by using a handler 
of the same name in a child.

For example, if you decided button "C" was different from the others and 
should reports its long ID rather than its name, you could write a 
script in it with:

   on mouseUp
     answer the long id of me
   end mouseUp

...and it'll do that, without affecting any other behaviors provided by 
the parent script, or affecting any other objects that use the parent 
script.

Overloading is augmenting a behavior without replacing it.

So if you wanted your custom controls (buttons "A", "B", etc.) to be 
able to have their own mouseUp messages independent of any handling 
provided in their parent behavior script, you could write the behavior 
with either of two special forms of message handlers: before or after.

The script of button "MyClass" could be revised as:

   after mouseUp
     answer the name of me
   end mouseUp

...and then the mouseUp message can be handled however you like in any 
of the class instances ("A", "B", etc.), yet the behavior script will 
also fire immediately after.

The "before <message>" works similarly, but as you can guess those fire 
before the child gets the message.

Before and after handlers are limited to behavior scripts, as they were 
added specifically to allow behaviors to augment actions without 
limiting the scope of normal messages a subscribed object can act on.

This may be a lot to take in all at once.

Play with steps 1 to 11 to get going, explore ways to apply that to your 
work.  Later on you can add "before" and "after" handlers if you need 
them.  You may not (I rarely use them), but if you do need them they're 
good to know about.

Don your pith helmet and begin your adventure!

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From mark at canelasoftware.com  Thu Mar 31 13:26:41 2016
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 10:26:41 -0700
Subject: LiveCode Video Display with QuickTime on a PC ?
In-Reply-To: <FC30C6D1-7557-4DB9-8A1C-FB56C9AD59E5@wanadoo.fr>
References: <FC30C6D1-7557-4DB9-8A1C-FB56C9AD59E5@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <ED2C2FE1-91FE-4DBA-8D7F-2647611C6690@canelasoftware.com>


> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Francis Nugent Dixon <effendi at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> 
> If I install Quicktime (Version 7) on the PC, what do I have to do to
> allow it to run the videos , or is it transparent, as with Mac OS ?
> If (as I have read) QT doesn?t run well on a PC, if I convert all the
> video files to .AVI (using Windows Live Movie Maker ?), will video
> display then work properly ? Obviously, I prefer QuickTime ?..

If you install QT on a PC, the player control will work the same on the PC as it does on the Mac.

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io <http://www.livecloud.io/>
canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>





From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Thu Mar 31 13:01:41 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56f9e043.28f25056.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FC9288.6090509@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fc9989.7d7007c6.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FCA4B8.2040105@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
	<19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1459443701716-4702873.post@n4.nabble.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote
> In just 11 steps, each taking only a few seconds, you've just created a 
> rich hierarchy of custom messaging:
> 
>        "A" "B" "C"
>          \  |  /
>           \ | /
>          MyClass
>             |
>             |
>       MySuperClass
> 
> 
> If you wanted the drag behavior used for an entirely different set of 
> objects that do something else on mouseUp, you could make another button 
> named "MyOtherClass" and extend your scope of custom controls even
> further:
> 
>   "A" "B" "C" "D" "E" "F"
>     \  |  /     \  |  /
>      \ | /       \ | /
>     MyClass   MyOtherClass
>         \         /
>          \       /
>         MySuperClass
> 
> Behaviors can be chained as deeply as you like, allowing for very rich 
> class hierarchies.
> 
> This will get you started.  And it only takes a few minutes to explore.

I agree with Richard that behaviors are extremly powerful, especially the
nested behaviors.

But if you want to use this feature dynamically, i.e. to assign a superclass
on runtime and remove it on runtime, which is just the logical extension of
using nested behaviors then you currently have to consider
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17220
(includes a sample stack showing setting a class and superclass)
removing a superclass behavior does not become immediately effective.
You would have to set the class behavior anew.

I hope I made a valuable contribution to confuse everybody and his cat :)

Kind regards
Bernd




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Script-Only-Stack-Architecture-tp4702715p4702873.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar 31 13:43:12 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:43:12 -0500
Subject: LiveCode Video Display with QuickTime on a PC ?
In-Reply-To: <ED2C2FE1-91FE-4DBA-8D7F-2647611C6690@canelasoftware.com>
References: <FC30C6D1-7557-4DB9-8A1C-FB56C9AD59E5@wanadoo.fr>
	<ED2C2FE1-91FE-4DBA-8D7F-2647611C6690@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <153cdc59398.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Also remember to set the dontUseQT to false. The default has changed, and 
QT won't load now unless you tell it to do so.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On March 31, 2016 12:28:11 PM Mark Talluto <mark at canelasoftware.com> wrote:

>
>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Francis Nugent Dixon <effendi at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>>
>> If I install Quicktime (Version 7) on the PC, what do I have to do to
>> allow it to run the videos , or is it transparent, as with Mac OS ?
>> If (as I have read) QT doesn?t run well on a PC, if I convert all the
>> video files to .AVI (using Windows Live Movie Maker ?), will video
>> display then work properly ? Obviously, I prefer QuickTime ?..
>
> If you install QT on a PC, the player control will work the same on the PC 
> as it does on the Mac.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io <http://www.livecloud.io/>
> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 14:04:37 2016
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:04:37 +0300
Subject: LiveCode Video Display with QuickTime on a PC ?
In-Reply-To: <153cdc59398.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <FC30C6D1-7557-4DB9-8A1C-FB56C9AD59E5@wanadoo.fr>
	<ED2C2FE1-91FE-4DBA-8D7F-2647611C6690@canelasoftware.com>
	<153cdc59398.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9K891Du7yy7S7f4g20CT2C7f-AK4MT2=3oyk_9u7juvA@mail.gmail.com>

*If* I remember, correctly, the default value of the global dontuseQT is
false on Windows (and true on OSX>=10.8).

However, note that QT is not officially supported on Windows 8.1 and 10. It
is quite possible that it will "just work", but not guaranteed.

>From Apple's website (https://support.apple.com/kb/DL837?locale=en_US):

***Please note: QuickTime 7 is for use with Windows Vista or Windows 7. If
installed on other versions of Windows, it may not offer full functionality
and is unsupported. ***

If you convert all the video files to .AVI then they should display as
expected (of course make sure that dontUseQT is set to true), but you will
not be able to use the controller for video playback, since this feature is
specific to QuickTime.

I suggest converting one video to .AVI and see if it works, and if not,
please file a bug report.

Best regards,

Panos

--



On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 8:43 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:

> Also remember to set the dontUseQT to false. The default has changed, and
> QT won't load now unless you tell it to do so.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
>
>
> On March 31, 2016 12:28:11 PM Mark Talluto <mark at canelasoftware.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Francis Nugent Dixon <effendi at wanadoo.fr>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If I install Quicktime (Version 7) on the PC, what do I have to do to
>>> allow it to run the videos , or is it transparent, as with Mac OS ?
>>> If (as I have read) QT doesn?t run well on a PC, if I convert all the
>>> video files to .AVI (using Windows Live Movie Maker ?), will video
>>> display then work properly ? Obviously, I prefer QuickTime ?..
>>>
>>
>> If you install QT on a PC, the player control will work the same on the
>> PC as it does on the Mac.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Mark Talluto
>> livecloud.io <http://www.livecloud.io/>
>> canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From rjb at robelko.com  Thu Mar 31 13:52:10 2016
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:52:10 +0200
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
References: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p0624081cd32313ff5411@[192.168.1.94]>

Thanks, Richard, that is a very, very nice intro to behaviors!


On 31.03.2016 at 9:52 Uhr -0700 Richard Gaskin apparently wrote:
>
>Behaviors are very powerful for all sorts of things, whether you 
>work alone or in a team of twenty.
>
>The biggest benefit for teamwork comes from the very separate 
>question of whether to use script-only stacks to define behaviors. 
>Script-only stacks are an ideal solution for Github-based workflows, 
>but have minimal value (some, but not as much) for anyone not 
>dependent on a version control system designed for other languages.
>
>Ditch script-only stacks for now and continue to explore behaviors. 
>You'll thank me.  You'll want to buy me lunch next time I'm in Santa 
>Barbara.  I'll accept.  Behaviors will change everything, very 
>powerfully, the more you explore and use them.
>



From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 31 14:42:56 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 18:42:56 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <1459443701716-4702873.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56f9e043.28f25056.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FC9288.6090509@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fc9989.7d7007c6.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FCA4B8.2040105@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
	<19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
	<1459443701716-4702873.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fd6faf.35fc9563.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>

?
Jai Ganesha! I went to bed HST worried I was creating too much churn on this list and here you guys kept spinning a web of silk and gold ideas all night long....Awesome... Now have to digest all this.

BR: "opening the stack did not work"  
RG: What happened?

Still failing today.. try this unit test  

1) create folder "app source  
2) create folder inside "main-stack-scripts"
3) create new stack --> name "Test External File Parent Script" (or whatever)
4) make field and lock it. name it "Hot Field"
5) go to file menu --> new stack --> script only --> create stack --"script-only-behavior"
6) put in this script

on mouseup  
answer (the short name of me) with "GoodOnYa from Script-Only Behavior!"
end mouseup

7) save to folder "main-stack-scripts"  
8) in the stacks script of "Test External File Parent Script"

put  

on preopenstack
put localpath() & "main-stack-scripts/testOpenBehavior.livecode" into tStackPath
open stack tStackPath
end preopenstack


function localPath
put specialFolderPath("Resources") into tPath
put "/" after tPath
return tPath
end localPath

9) go to the field and apply the script only stack as behavior to field "Hot Field"
10) save everything
11) Quit LC
12) reboot LC
13) open "main" stack -->?Test External File Parent Script
14) Application browser confirms: the preopenstack handler triggered with no error and the script only ?"testOpenBehavior.livecode" is there in the list as an open stack
15) click on the field --> nothing happens.
16) go back to main stack props --> Stack files -->browse to
main-stack-scripts/testOpenBehavior.livecode
17) save --> quit LC --> reboot,
18) open main stack "Test External File Parent Script"
19) click on field: result: dialog opens as expected:

Hot Field
? [with]?GoodOnYa from Script-Only Behavior!
? ?

ergo: merely opening a script-only stack that is applied as a behavior to a control (not global in scope) does *not* place into the msg path.

BR



On March 31, 2016 at 7:32:22 AM, BNig (bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de(mailto:bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de)) wrote:

> Richard Gaskin wrote  
> > In just 11 steps, each taking only a few seconds, you've just created a  
> > rich hierarchy of custom messaging:  
> >

From tfabacher at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 14:53:54 2016
From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:53:54 -0400
Subject: Android Internet Library OpenSSL version problem
Message-ID: <CACjPeORJf001txpj9S9H-LukZL=GdCcZLHUY-fe4ycoD4jGmTQ@mail.gmail.com>

I LiveCode going to upgrade the Internet Lib? Google sent out messages to
everyone in the app store:

*Please migrate your app(s) to OpenSSL 1.02f/1.01r or higher as soon as
possible and increment the version number of the upgraded APK.*

Our build manager say they will start rejecting Apps. Can we do anything
now? We have Apps that need to go into the store.

--Todd


From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 14:29:55 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:29:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <56FCFE87.2010305@gmail.com>
References: <1459228435922-4702723.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FCFE87.2010305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1459448995186-4702879.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Richmond,


RM wrote
> Am I being stupid?

No, this same topic (masking images) have been discussed many times before. 
An this same topic will arise again in a near future. Do you know why?

Because LC IDE does not have an integrated menu or an external palette or a
stack plug-in to create mask for images.

2011 in the forums:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6525
2013 in the mail list:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2013-October/subject.html#193880

By the way, just to complete in this same thread all masking options
available, here is a recipe for using Scott Rossi's Hidden Point technique
to mask an image:
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Hidden-point-technique-to-mask-an-image-td2270248.html

A graphic with discontiguous points is just another way to create a vector
mask.

1) Create a new stack
2) Create a polygon graphic
and set the points of it to:

0,0

34,268
224,268
127,365
34,268

3) import an image into this stack,
put the image in a corner, where it does not
hide the graphic and:

set the backpattern of grc 1 to the id of img 1

(now, the imported image is cropped within
the graphic)

4) set the script of the graphic to this variation
of Scott Rossi script to move the first point of
the graphic and (at the same time) move the
image within the graphic:

local lpoints,tClick,tFirstPoint
-- based on Scott Rossi script for masking images

on mouseDown
   put mouseH(),mouseV() into tClick
   put the points of me into lpoints
   put line 1 of lpoints into tFirstPoint
   put "mouseDown" & cr & lpoints & cr & cr into fld 1 
end mouseDown

on mouseMove X,Y
   if tClick = "" then exit mouseMove
   put  (X - item 1 of tClick,Y - item 2 of tClick)
   put  (X - item 1 of tClick) + item 1 of tFirstPoint,(Y - item 2 of
tClick) + item 2 of tFirstPoint into line 1 of lpoints
   set the points of me to lpoints
end mouseMove

on mouseUp
   put "" into tClick
end mouseUp

on mouseRelease
   put "" into tClick
end mouseRelease

When you click inside the graphic and move the mouse
the image will move within the graphic.

Alejandro




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702879.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From tfabacher at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 15:03:20 2016
From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:03:20 -0400
Subject: Android Internet Library OpenSSL version problem
Message-ID: <CACjPeOQe1i_H4c30jtVfo1YyrZFt_oHDTe7rJJZquWU=+1hxPA@mail.gmail.com>

Here is the email


Hello Google Play Developer,

Your app(s) listed at the end of this email utilize a version of OpenSSL
that contains one or more security vulnerabilities. If you have more than
20 affected apps in your account, please check the Developer Console
<https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/fjei2Ep_bOBlYuDc6w9bmNJq7yf2tJoxDhZCISvC3oPBU402G0KdpugkDbaYNCNfFe5Krmc=>
for
a full list.

*Please migrate your app(s) to OpenSSL 1.02f/1.01r or higher as soon as
possible and increment the version number of the upgraded APK.* Beginning
July 11, 2016, Google Play will block publishing of any new apps or updates
that use older versions of OpenSSL. If you?re using a 3rd party library
that bundles OpenSSL, you?ll need to upgrade it to a version that bundles
OpenSSL 1.02f/1.01r or higher.

The vulnerabilities were addressed in OpenSSL 1.02f/1.01r. The latest
versions of OpenSSL can be downloaded here
<https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/cYEKsNY1EXxMUibx1g5wXFqEUJug2qxAljz5dcjw0FdtOCzzVgES3UnVMg3NZzg=>.
To confirm your OpenSSL version, you can do a grep search for ($ unzip -p
YourApp.apk | strings | grep "OpenSSL").

To confirm you?ve upgraded correctly, submit the updated version to the
Developer Console and check back after five hours. If the app hasn?t been
correctly upgraded, we will display a warning.

The vulnerabilities include "logjam
<https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/wwzjM8dOQQABsjZHsmizCbtZBSy8QLOCS_zC_JwDzZFu8t3E>"
and CVE-2015-3194
<http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/5Fet4eNQpubmLcdcsDLDxQVC3cpQIobX-ZpnUbOEzQ-ef8eBEX8b3UwbW-2vkf0uOl4MxDC_ybcHvx-9tuf2bvBKMB1VVG-jISB4iU8SW3IZDl956lVV1NcKOGImM_eDDfVPYU7DHSCeP6NAKczWI21Zwhb26nmp1L7at28gjcE=>.
The Logjam attack allows a man-in-the-middle attacker to downgrade
vulnerable TLS connections to 512-bit export-grade cryptography. This
allows the attacker to read and modify any data passed over the connection.
Details about other vulnerabilities are available here
<https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/SaM0ZeGJS3KDm1_UVkqSocD06axb2Pnx2R11VGhz5ztJQm6xXXC69LkUGxikh7zJ2dtHtGx5iOgP9RIJjcHKsfY=>.
For other technical questions, you can post to Stack Overflow
<https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/eMKFo3KVNtsXJIz_0hnZoToX-cCMUIa3k-i9378x7adhWusHjYDL83SZltgBexcJz0z-o_wtJh0=>
and
use the tags ?android-security? and ?OpenSSL.?

While these specific issues may not affect every app that uses OpenSSL,
it?s best to stay up to date on all security patches. Apps with
vulnerabilities that expose users to risk of compromise may be considered
in violation of our Malicious Behavior policy
<https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/8Ke0G-Rjrwg2kyNAeVDUbN-PtGFFtm0XwcheZ2wPcRjpI-4yIcgkVmqu_o7W8H3w320ruNzsFnZ5FixHl7DH5uUdtapHi5ZFg_iDtWKQrzqSmvgWhgQEjBeOQQ==>
and
section 4.4
<https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/J66OFIBf3DgWBKNfQlTjy5x6M2_SVA1zJopao2l5WkqBG5pKvFHNIi1_lvTYpP-Fk6QzgzQ4loBrQyIR6D6zfqLPoFqA4KPgLNnhOoCZz1DZ9c9vfHwvA3JYPTs6DRE=>
of
the Developer Distribution Agreement.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar 31 15:04:31 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:04:31 -0500
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fd6faf.35fc9563.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56f9e043.28f25056.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<etPan.56fc8803.711e1dd8.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FC9288.6090509@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fc9989.7d7007c6.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FCA4B8.2040105@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fcbbd7.30d00fd1.5476@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD3C8D.7070201@fourthworld.com>
	<19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
	<1459443701716-4702873.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<etPan.56fd6faf.35fc9563.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FD74BF.8020408@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/31/2016 1:42 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> ergo: merely opening a script-only stack that is applied as a
> behavior to a control (not global in scope) does*not*  place into the
> msg path.

By the time a preOpenStack handler executes, the engine has already 
loaded the stack into RAM and set up the behaviors. You need to load the 
behaviors before your mainstack even launches. That's why Richard said 
it may require a launcher app that opens the behaviors first and then 
opens the mainstack.

To avoid that, the only method available would be the stackfiles lists. 
The engine apparently checks those first before setting up the behavior 
linkages.

I know you want to implement as much as possible with script-only files, 
but for behaviors it may be easier to just use the original button 
method. You can share behavior button scripts as easily as text files in 
a team environment; they are pretty much self-contained.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 15:17:24 2016
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:17:24 +0300
Subject: Android Internet Library OpenSSL version problem
In-Reply-To: <CACjPeOQe1i_H4c30jtVfo1YyrZFt_oHDTe7rJJZquWU=+1hxPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACjPeOQe1i_H4c30jtVfo1YyrZFt_oHDTe7rJJZquWU=+1hxPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq98m5BXrA8=k0rRvW-C69Ciz2ced4FknksDBnUBn-HfGg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Todd,

We have updated the OpenSSL version to 1.0.1s, and the patch will be
included in the next LiveCode release (6.7.11-rc-1 / 7.1.4-rc-1 .
8.0.0-dp-17).

Best regards,
Panos
--

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:03 PM, Todd Fabacher <tfabacher at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here is the email
>
>
> Hello Google Play Developer,
>
> Your app(s) listed at the end of this email utilize a version of OpenSSL
> that contains one or more security vulnerabilities. If you have more than
> 20 affected apps in your account, please check the Developer Console
> <
> https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/fjei2Ep_bOBlYuDc6w9bmNJq7yf2tJoxDhZCISvC3oPBU402G0KdpugkDbaYNCNfFe5Krmc=
> >
> for
> a full list.
>
> *Please migrate your app(s) to OpenSSL 1.02f/1.01r or higher as soon as
> possible and increment the version number of the upgraded APK.* Beginning
> July 11, 2016, Google Play will block publishing of any new apps or updates
> that use older versions of OpenSSL. If you?re using a 3rd party library
> that bundles OpenSSL, you?ll need to upgrade it to a version that bundles
> OpenSSL 1.02f/1.01r or higher.
>
> The vulnerabilities were addressed in OpenSSL 1.02f/1.01r. The latest
> versions of OpenSSL can be downloaded here
> <
> https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/cYEKsNY1EXxMUibx1g5wXFqEUJug2qxAljz5dcjw0FdtOCzzVgES3UnVMg3NZzg=
> >.
> To confirm your OpenSSL version, you can do a grep search for ($ unzip -p
> YourApp.apk | strings | grep "OpenSSL").
>
> To confirm you?ve upgraded correctly, submit the updated version to the
> Developer Console and check back after five hours. If the app hasn?t been
> correctly upgraded, we will display a warning.
>
> The vulnerabilities include "logjam
> <
> https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/wwzjM8dOQQABsjZHsmizCbtZBSy8QLOCS_zC_JwDzZFu8t3E
> >"
> and CVE-2015-3194
> <
> http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/5Fet4eNQpubmLcdcsDLDxQVC3cpQIobX-ZpnUbOEzQ-ef8eBEX8b3UwbW-2vkf0uOl4MxDC_ybcHvx-9tuf2bvBKMB1VVG-jISB4iU8SW3IZDl956lVV1NcKOGImM_eDDfVPYU7DHSCeP6NAKczWI21Zwhb26nmp1L7at28gjcE=
> >.
> The Logjam attack allows a man-in-the-middle attacker to downgrade
> vulnerable TLS connections to 512-bit export-grade cryptography. This
> allows the attacker to read and modify any data passed over the connection.
> Details about other vulnerabilities are available here
> <
> https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/SaM0ZeGJS3KDm1_UVkqSocD06axb2Pnx2R11VGhz5ztJQm6xXXC69LkUGxikh7zJ2dtHtGx5iOgP9RIJjcHKsfY=
> >.
> For other technical questions, you can post to Stack Overflow
> <
> https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/eMKFo3KVNtsXJIz_0hnZoToX-cCMUIa3k-i9378x7adhWusHjYDL83SZltgBexcJz0z-o_wtJh0=
> >
> and
> use the tags ?android-security? and ?OpenSSL.?
>
> While these specific issues may not affect every app that uses OpenSSL,
> it?s best to stay up to date on all security patches. Apps with
> vulnerabilities that expose users to risk of compromise may be considered
> in violation of our Malicious Behavior policy
> <
> https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/8Ke0G-Rjrwg2kyNAeVDUbN-PtGFFtm0XwcheZ2wPcRjpI-4yIcgkVmqu_o7W8H3w320ruNzsFnZ5FixHl7DH5uUdtapHi5ZFg_iDtWKQrzqSmvgWhgQEjBeOQQ==
> >
> and
> section 4.4
> <
> https://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/p/J66OFIBf3DgWBKNfQlTjy5x6M2_SVA1zJopao2l5WkqBG5pKvFHNIi1_lvTYpP-Fk6QzgzQ4loBrQyIR6D6zfqLPoFqA4KPgLNnhOoCZz1DZ9c9vfHwvA3JYPTs6DRE=
> >
> of
> the Developer Distribution Agreement.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 31 15:21:10 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:21:10 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
References: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DCDF4380-1C22-4598-9398-2726BC0ACC18@earthednet.org>

Thanks, Richard:
My previous exposure to the behaviors methodology was in Adobe Director. A behavior was assigned to a particular control, field, button, whatever, and in its script, it defined a set of properties that could be set custom for each instantiation. That way, a ?set? of graphics for a button, for example, could be assembled as part of a behavior where the ?up?, ?down?,?over?, ?disabled? etc, states linked to a particular graphic. Of course, you don?t have to do that in Livecode, but that was the idea.

Thanks for the prescription. I?ll try it out. 

Let me know next time you?re in Santa Barbara. I?ll treat you to lunch.
Best,
Bill

> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
> > Reading this kinda makes my head spin. Now I?m thinking it is going
> > to be a heck of a lot more robust for my situation, as a single
> > developer, to not use behaviors at all, but to have a single
> > (possibly script only) substack that holds all of the handlers that I
> > would normally use as behaviors, and just put a call to that handler
> > in each button. I can use ?the target?  or ?me? as a passed variable
> > to make the action specific to a particular control.
> >
> > This approach seems a lot less prone to idiosyncrasies and more
> > easily transportable to other apps, to me. It also means that all of
> > my ?behavior type scripts? would sit in a single script-only stack,
> > which would make it a lot more convenient to access and edit than a
> > bunch of small script only stacks sitting in my project browser.
> >
> > Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?
> 
> Behaviors are very powerful for all sorts of things, whether you work alone or in a team of twenty.
> 
> The biggest benefit for teamwork comes from the very separate question of whether to use script-only stacks to define behaviors.  Script-only stacks are an ideal solution for Github-based workflows, but have minimal value (some, but not as much) for anyone not dependent on a version control system designed for other languages.
> 
> Ditch script-only stacks for now and continue to explore behaviors. You'll thank me.  You'll want to buy me lunch next time I'm in Santa Barbara.  I'll accept.  Behaviors will change everything, very powerfully, the more you explore and use them.
> 
> Once we step away from the very separate issue of script-only stacks, we have really only two guidelines for using behaviors effectively:
> 
> - A behavior definition can be any button or stack.
> 
> - When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
>  must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
>  memory.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> When exploring a new feature I like to make a simple stack I can use as a playground to poke around and experiment without mucking up anything important I'm working on.
> 
> Here's a quick tutorial that may get you hooked on the power of behaviors:
> 
> 1. Make a new stack titled "Behavior Playground"
> 
> 2. Add a button named "MyClass"
> 
> 3. Set the script of that button to:
> 
>    on mouseUp
>       answer the name of me
>    end mouseUp
> 
> There - you've just created a behavior, defining an action for what will be an entire class of custom button objects:
> 
> 4. Make a new button named "A"
> 
> 5. In the Message Box run:
> 
>   set the behavior of btn "A" to the long id of btn "MyClass"
> 
> 6. Make two copies of btn "A", naming them "B" and "C" respectively.
> 
> 7. Click any of them.
> 
> What you'll see is that each of them uses the script of button "MyClass" as if it's their own, bringing up an answer dialog showing the unique name of each.
> 
> At this point your mind is already thinking of a dozen times in recent projects where you have several objects you wanted to work the same without affecting any other scripts.  We could leave it here and you'd be off writing behaviors very productively right now.
> 
> But we're going to take this one step further - we'll create a superclass:
> 
> 8. Make a new button named "MySuperClass"
> 
> 9. Set this script of that button to:
> 
>   on mouseDown
>      grab me
>   end mouseDown
> 
> 10. In the Message Box run:
> 
>  set the behavior of btn "MyClass" to the long id of btn "MySuperClass"
> 
> 11. Drag any of the "A", "B", or "C" buttons.
> 
> In just 11 steps, each taking only a few seconds, you've just created a rich hierarchy of custom messaging:
> 
>      "A" "B" "C"
>        \  |  /
>         \ | /
>        MyClass
>           |
>           |
>     MySuperClass
> 
> 
> If you wanted the drag behavior used for an entirely different set of objects that do something else on mouseUp, you could make another button named "MyOtherClass" and extend your scope of custom controls even further:
> 
> "A" "B" "C" "D" "E" "F"
>   \  |  /     \  |  /
>    \ | /       \ | /
>   MyClass   MyOtherClass
>       \         /
>        \       /
>       MySuperClass
> 
> Behaviors can be chained as deeply as you like, allowing for very rich class hierarchies.
> 
> This will get you started.  And it only takes a few minutes to explore.
> 
> 
> ------ EXTRA CREDIT -------
> 
> After you feel comfortable with this, an extra credit exercise might be explore overriding and overloading.
> 
> Overriding is blocking an action defined in a parent by using a handler of the same name in a child.
> 
> For example, if you decided button "C" was different from the others and should reports its long ID rather than its name, you could write a script in it with:
> 
>  on mouseUp
>    answer the long id of me
>  end mouseUp
> 
> ...and it'll do that, without affecting any other behaviors provided by the parent script, or affecting any other objects that use the parent script.
> 
> Overloading is augmenting a behavior without replacing it.
> 
> So if you wanted your custom controls (buttons "A", "B", etc.) to be able to have their own mouseUp messages independent of any handling provided in their parent behavior script, you could write the behavior with either of two special forms of message handlers: before or after.
> 
> The script of button "MyClass" could be revised as:
> 
>  after mouseUp
>    answer the name of me
>  end mouseUp
> 
> ...and then the mouseUp message can be handled however you like in any of the class instances ("A", "B", etc.), yet the behavior script will also fire immediately after.
> 
> The "before <message>" works similarly, but as you can guess those fire before the child gets the message.
> 
> Before and after handlers are limited to behavior scripts, as they were added specifically to allow behaviors to augment actions without limiting the scope of normal messages a subscribed object can act on.
> 
> This may be a lot to take in all at once.
> 
> Play with steps 1 to 11 to get going, explore ways to apply that to your work.  Later on you can add "before" and "after" handlers if you need them.  You may not (I rarely use them), but if you do need them they're good to know about.
> 
> Don your pith helmet and begin your adventure!
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 15:43:37 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:43:37 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fd6faf.35fc9563.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fd6faf.35fc9563.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FD7DE9.3030206@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

 > ergo: merely opening a script-only stack that is applied as a
 > behavior to a control (not global in scope) does *not* place
 > into the msg path.

Respectfully, your recipe would be easier to follow without the steps 
unrelated to the actions we're exploring (making folders and such - the 
folder locations are unrelated to the problem).

Remember guideline #2 in my earlier post:

   2. When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
      must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
      memory.
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225274.html>

If I'm following your recipe correctly, the field object that uses the 
behavior is in a stack that opens and then loads the stack used to 
define the behavior.

This means that at the moment the field object is unpacked for use it 
contains a reference to a behavior object not yet in memory.

The engine (in its current form; we can expect this to be improved later 
as time permits) will only attempt to resolve a behavior once, when the 
object dependent on the behavior is brought into memory.

Even if you later open a stack containing the behavior script, by that 
time it's too late.  The object depending on it has already been 
unpacked, the behavior reference already attempted, and having failed it 
will not be retried as other stacks are later opened.

For the moment let's forget that in your case the stack file used as a 
behavior object is a script-only stack.  The storage format doesn't 
affect anything at runtime, and may be distracting here.  Let's just 
focus on the load order:


SIMPLIFIED RECIPE
-----------------
Stack "MyTestStack" has a field, which is assigned stack 
"MyBehaviorStack" as its behavior property.

Stack "MyBehaviorStack" is a separate stack file.


POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
------------------
Options for correct behavior esolution when "MyTestStack" is loaded include:


a) Open "MyBehaviorStack" first.
    -----------------------------
    In an application this may mean introducing one more stack, which
    we could call "MyBootStack", which first opens "MyBehaviorStack"
    and then opens "MyTestStack".


b) Load "MyBehaviorStack" into memory without opening it.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    This can be done by accessing a property of "MyBehaviorStack",
    such as the stack's name.  This still requires "MyBootStack"
    to make sure that "MyBehaviorStack" is in memory before
    "MyTestStack" is opened, but has the minor convenience of
    not being visible to the user and triggers no opening messages.


c) Include "MyBehaviorStack" in the stackFiles prop of "MyTestStack".
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Any stack files specified in the stackFiles property of a stack
    are loaded into memory at the same time the stack containing that
    list is loaded.  In terms of boot sequence it's functionally
    similar to having those separate stack files as substacks, but
    with the advantage of keeping them separate.


a) and b) conform to Guideline #2 above in an obvious way, explicitly 
putting "MyBehaviorStack" into memory before "MyTestStack" will be 
opened to need it.

c) works because stack files listed in the stackFiles property are all 
loaded with the stack listing them, before behavior resolution takes place.


This seems harder than it is in part because you're super smart and are 
just thinking too hard. :)

Relax.  Put script-only stuff out of your mind, and just think about the 
load order.

Behaviors are among the most powerful things ever introduced in the 
xTalk family of languages.  I waited literally 20 years for them, since 
Allegiant first accepted my proposal for parentScripts but then went 
belly-up before they could implement it.  Well worth even that wait: 
they greatly simplify so many aspects of building complex systems, and 
simple systems become simpler.

The load order rule (Guideline #2 above) in LC is a bit funkier than 
we'd hope for, but even that's not hard to accommodate once we 
understand it.

Pick a, b, or c, to handle the load order, and the world is your oyster.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From stgoldberg at aol.com  Thu Mar 31 15:45:10 2016
From: stgoldberg at aol.com (stgoldberg at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:45:10 -0400
Subject: LiveCode Video Display with QuickTime on a PC ?
Message-ID: <153ce3542c1-4ad-1d1e@webprd-m36.mail.aol.com>

The stack should run on PC. Be sure the movie filename is correctly prepared as a relative path, not an absolute path. E.g.:

set the filename of player 1 to ?Images/MyMovie.mov?

Also, be sure the movie is correctly placed hierarchically. If for instance the movie MyMovie is in a folder titled "Images" and the stack is in a folder titled MyStack, the Images folder should be in the MyStack folder.

Stephen Goldberg, Pres
Medmaster Inc
www.medmaster.net

>Is there anything else I shold know ? LiveCode information concerning
>video display with QT on a PC is very vague. I?m running V 5.5.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 15:48:39 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:48:39 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <DCDF4380-1C22-4598-9398-2726BC0ACC18@earthednet.org>
References: <DCDF4380-1C22-4598-9398-2726BC0ACC18@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56FD7F17.8090401@fourthworld.com>

William Prothero wrote:

 > Thanks, Richard:
 > My previous exposure to the behaviors methodology was in Adobe
 > Director. A behavior was assigned to a particular control, field,
 > button, whatever, and in its script, it defined a set of properties
 > that could be set custom for each instantiation. That way, a ?set? of
 > graphics for a button, for example, could be assembled as part of a
 > behavior where the ?up?, ?down?,?over?, ?disabled? etc, states linked
 > to a particular graphic. Of course, you don?t have to do that in
 > Livecode, but that was the idea.

Similar here, but more message-driven than property-driven.

 > Thanks for the prescription. I?ll try it out.

I hope it helps.

 > Let me know next time you?re in Santa Barbara. I?ll treat you to
 > lunch.

I would enjoy that.  I try to take the train up a couple times a year 
(such a nice train ride and such an awful drive <g>).  I'll drop you a 
note next time I'm up that way.  Thanks.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 15:50:16 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:50:16 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD74BF.8020408@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <56FD74BF.8020408@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56FD7F78.5060108@fourthworld.com>

  J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 3/31/2016 1:42 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>> ergo: merely opening a script-only stack that is applied as a
>> behavior to a control (not global in scope) does*not*  place into the
>> msg path.
>
> By the time a preOpenStack handler executes, the engine has already
> loaded the stack into RAM and set up the behaviors. You need to load the
> behaviors before your mainstack even launches. That's why Richard said
> it may require a launcher app that opens the behaviors first and then
> opens the mainstack.
>
> To avoid that, the only method available would be the stackfiles lists.
> The engine apparently checks those first before setting up the behavior
> linkages.

As usual, Jacque manages to explain it better if far fewer words. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 31 16:09:50 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:09:50 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD7DE9.3030206@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fd6faf.35fc9563.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD7DE9.3030206@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fd840c.3e47b0c8.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>

I don't think I'm super smart... or over thinking it

I think the idea that you have to open an external behavior stack *before* you open the main stack that has controls which point to it as their parent, is totally unintuitive and when a newbie reads "load, open, put into memory" etc... he/she will always assume this can happen in the preopenstack handler.  even your b) explanation will  throw a newbie

"Load "MyBehaviorStack" into memory without opening it. "

It is or is not open after you query the property? do you really mean:

"You can query a property to open the stack in the background and put its stack script into memory."

a) b) (with explanation above)  c) below + Jacque's explanation could go in the dictionary... I don't think that's over loading it. had that been what I read at Git Hub, we could have avoided several days for lost time.

OTOH, we did get the gold out of it:  your nested behaviors/as-classes tutorial...

So it was all worth it!


For my use case, stack files seems the simplest way to go and most rock solid.

On March 31, 2016 at 9:44:06 AM, Richard Gaskin (ambassador at fourthworld.com<mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com>) wrote:

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> ergo: merely opening a script-only stack that is applied as a
> behavior to a control (not global in scope) does *not* place
> into the msg path.

Respectfully, your recipe would be easier to follow without the steps
unrelated to the actions we're exploring (making folders and such - the
folder locations are unrelated to the problem).

Remember guideline #2 in my earlier post:

2. When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
memory.
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225274.html>

If I'm following your recipe correctly, the field object that uses the
behavior is in a stack that opens and then loads the stack used to
define the behavior.

This means that at the moment the field object is unpacked for use it
contains a reference to a behavior object not yet in memory.

The engine (in its current form; we can expect this to be improved later
as time permits) will only attempt to resolve a behavior once, when the
object dependent on the behavior is brought into memory.

Even if you later open a stack containing the behavior script, by that
time it's too late. The object depending on it has already been
unpacked, the behavior reference already attempted, and having failed it
will not be retried as other stacks are later opened.

For the moment let's forget that in your case the stack file used as a
behavior object is a script-only stack. The storage format doesn't
affect anything at runtime, and may be distracting here. Let's just
focus on the load order:


SIMPLIFIED RECIPE
-----------------
Stack "MyTestStack" has a field, which is assigned stack
"MyBehaviorStack" as its behavior property.

Stack "MyBehaviorStack" is a separate stack file.


POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
------------------
Options for correct behavior esolution when "MyTestStack" is loaded include:


a) Open "MyBehaviorStack" first.
-----------------------------
In an application this may mean introducing one more stack, which
we could call "MyBootStack", which first opens "MyBehaviorStack"
and then opens "MyTestStack".


b) Load "MyBehaviorStack" into memory without opening it.
------------------------------------------------------
This can be done by accessing a property of "MyBehaviorStack",
such as the stack's name. This still requires "MyBootStack"
to make sure that "MyBehaviorStack" is in memory before
"MyTestStack" is opened, but has the minor convenience of
not being visible to the user and triggers no opening messages.


c) Include "MyBehaviorStack" in the stackFiles prop of "MyTestStack".
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Any stack files specified in the stackFiles property of a stack
are loaded into memory at the same time the stack containing that
list is loaded. In terms of boot sequence it's functionally
similar to having those separate stack files as substacks, but
with the advantage of keeping them separate.


a) and b) conform to Guideline #2 above in an obvious way, explicitly
putting "MyBehaviorStack" into memory before "MyTestStack" will be
opened to need it.

c) works because stack files listed in the stackFiles property are all
loaded with the stack listing them, before behavior resolution takes place.


This seems harder than it is in part because you're super smart and are
just thinking too hard. :)

Relax. Put script-only stuff out of your mind, and just think about the
load order.

Behaviors are among the most powerful things ever introduced in the
xTalk family of languages. I waited literally 20 years for them, since
Allegiant first accepted my proposal for parentScripts but then went
belly-up before they could implement it. Well worth even that wait:
they greatly simplify so many aspects of building complex systems, and
simple systems become simpler.

The load order rule (Guideline #2 above) in LC is a bit funkier than
we'd hope for, but even that's not hard to accommodate once we
understand it.

Pick a, b, or c, to handle the load order, and the world is your oyster.

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
____________________________________________________________________
Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar 31 16:24:58 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:24:58 -0500
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fd840c.3e47b0c8.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fd6faf.35fc9563.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD7DE9.3030206@fourthworld.com>
	<etPan.56fd840c.3e47b0c8.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FD879A.7050600@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/31/2016 3:09 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
> I think the idea that you have to open an external behavior
> stack*before*  you open the main stack that has controls which point
> to it as their parent, is totally unintuitive and when a newbie reads
> "load, open, put into memory" etc... he/she will always assume this
> can happen in the preopenstack handler.  even your b) explanation
> will  throw a newbie

Yeah, you're right. That's what the bug report is about -- make the 
process automatic and more intuitive. The current loading order worked 
fine when buttons were all we had to work with, but once stacks got 
involved it got real messy.

> "Load "MyBehaviorStack" into memory without opening it."
>
> It is or is not open after you query the property?

The engine needs to load it into RAM in order to get the property value. 
After that the stack is in the same state as a closed stack which has 
its deleteStack property set to false. The stack is retained in RAM but 
is not visible and is not in the message path. "There is a stack x" will 
return true, but engine messages won't reach it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 16:41:23 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:41:23 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fd840c.3e47b0c8.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fd840c.3e47b0c8.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FD8B73.707@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

 > I think the idea that you have to open an external behavior stack
 > *before* you open the main stack that has controls which point to
 > it as their parent, is totally unintuitive and when a newbie reads
 > "load, open, put into memory" etc... he/she will always assume this
 > can happen in the preopenstack handler.

Perhaps.  Ideally we'd need to user-test that to affirm the assumption. 
It wouldn't have occurred to me, but I've spent too long using xTalks to 
be a reliable gauge of what it takes to learn them (which is why the 
older I get the more ardent I've become about listening carefully to 
people who know nothing about the software; that precious naivety leaves 
so quickly, and is invaluable during that brief moment it still exists).

The one thing everyone agrees on is that the current need to be so aware 
of load order for behavior resolution is undesirable and needs to be 
changed at first opportunity.  Mark Waddingham doesn't much care for it 
any more than you or I do.  I'd be surprised if it isn't resolved (all 
puns intended) by 8.2 if not sooner.

Fortunately we have the convenient stackFiles property to make this a 
bit simpler in the meantime.


 > "Load "MyBehaviorStack" into memory without opening it. "
 >
 > It is or is not open after you query the property? do you really mean:
 >
 > "You can query a property to open the stack in the background and put
 > its stack script into memory."

Whether a stack is "open" if loaded into memory without using an "open" 
or "go" command is perhaps a philosophical question.

Personally I try to use "open" to describe a stack's runtime state only 
in cases where I brought it into RAM with "open" or "go", and the rare 
case of anything else as simply "in memory".


 > a) b) (with explanation above)  c) below + Jacque's explanation could
 > go in the dictionary... I don't think that's over loading it. had
 > that been what I read at Git Hub, we could have avoided several days
 > for lost time.

Go for it, but please be brief in Dictionary entries.   This thread is 
as long as it is in part because of a misunderstanding of what "start 
using" does, which may merit mention there but on the other hand if we 
included caveats in every Dictionary entry to cover mistakes I've made 
trying to misapply commands it would be a tome too hefty to read. :)

Rather than enumerate all possible ways do not do something, just focus 
on what you want them to do.


 > OTOH, we did get the gold out of it:  your nested behaviors/as-
 >classes tutorial...
 >
 > So it was all worth it!

Glad that was helpful.   Nested behaviors are da bombdiggety!

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 31 16:44:02 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:44:02 +0000
Subject: Multiple Versions of LC on Mac
Message-ID: <etPan.56fd8c12.44efca48.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>

The read me notes on LC 8 say

"Each version of LiveCode installs to its own, separate folder, to allow multiple versions of LiveCode to be installed side-by-side."

Just to confirm:

If we maintain all these in the applications folder (on mac)

LiveCode Indy 7.5.app
LiveCode Indy 8.0.0 (dp 16).app
LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app

etc.

and be sure to close anyone of them before using another...
are we getting ourselves into trouble at all, does this affect the preferences?

Of course we  would need to "save stack with format version" to run in 7... and features not available 8 disappear e.g. use of new json lib.

Any other caveats?



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 16:48:20 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:48:20 -0700
Subject: [OT] World Backup Day
Message-ID: <56FD8D14.8050904@fourthworld.com>

Today is World Backup Day - do you have multiple redundant backups with 
a tested recovery plan?

http://www.worldbackupday.com/en/

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Mar 31 17:00:33 2016
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:00:33 -0500
Subject: Multiple Versions of LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fd8c12.44efca48.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fd8c12.44efca48.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <56FD8FF1.9010305@hyperactivesw.com>

On 3/31/2016 3:44 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> If we maintain all these in the applications folder (on mac)
>
> LiveCode Indy 7.5.app
> LiveCode Indy 8.0.0 (dp 16).app
> LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app
>
> etc.
>
> and be sure to close anyone of them before using another...
> are we getting ourselves into trouble at all, does this affect the preferences?
>
> Of course we  would need to "save stack with format version" to run in 7... and features not available 8 disappear e.g. use of new json lib.
>
> Any other caveats?

I almost always have at least 3 versions of LC running at once, and 
sometimes more. You don't need to quit them to alternate. The main 
caveat is that if you have the same stack open in more than one version, 
you have to remember which version you saved it in. If you forget, 
you're apt to overwrite the changes you made in one copy of LC with 
changes you made in a different copy. The best thing is not to open the 
same stack in more than one version at a time.

Right now I have a client project open in 7.1.3, a partially-finished 
test stack open in 7.1.1, and a "learning/tinkering" stack open in 
8.0dp16. For a long time I also kept 6.6.5 open for a project that 
needed it. I sort of use copies of LC the way some people use 
desktops/spaces.

LC loads preferences on startup. You can change preferences in any 
version at any time, but whichever one you quit first will be the prefs 
you get when you launch any other copy of LC. While they are all 
running, they're just using the prefs they loaded when they launched.

LC 6 has a different prefs file than LC 7 and up, so if you're still 
running 6 then changing its prefs won't affect higher versions of LC.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 31 17:10:17 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:10:17 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
References: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>

Richard:
Ok, for the sake of argument (and my learning), compare that to:

1. Make  new stack and call it ?Alt Behavior Playground?

2. Make a new button and enter the script:
on mouseDown

   put the long ID of the target into theTarg

   doABehavior theTarg

end mouseDown

3. Make a substack and call it ?myBehaviorLib?  ?just for the heck of it.
Put the following script in it:

on doABehavior tCtl

    doTheGrab tCtl

end doABehavior


on doTheGrab tCtl

   grab tCtl

end doTheGrab

4. Better do: start using stack ?myBehaviorLib?

Run it and drag the button you made. This will work in all stacks with the on mouseDown script in it.

So, the ?myBehaviorLib? substack could be simply a script only stack that contains some reasonable number of separate behavior type scripts, and once the ?start using? is invoked, say on a preopenStack script, all common code for button behaviors becomes a single code element. Inheritance, like adding new behavior is just adding another script to the ?on doABehavior? handler in the ?myBehaviorLib? stack. What you don?t get is the ability to have the same name for a bunch of different behaviors, but ?? perhaps it?s easier to keep track of handler names that are different anyway.

Somehow, this seems more direct to me. It also avoids the need for a preloader stack the opens a bunch of small files that are behaviors.

What do you think?
Bill



> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
> > Reading this kinda makes my head spin. Now I?m thinking it is going
> > to be a heck of a lot more robust for my situation, as a single
> > developer, to not use behaviors at all, but to have a single
> > (possibly script only) substack that holds all of the handlers that I
> > would normally use as behaviors, and just put a call to that handler
> > in each button. I can use ?the target?  or ?me? as a passed variable
> > to make the action specific to a particular control.
> >
> > This approach seems a lot less prone to idiosyncrasies and more
> > easily transportable to other apps, to me. It also means that all of
> > my ?behavior type scripts? would sit in a single script-only stack,
> > which would make it a lot more convenient to access and edit than a
> > bunch of small script only stacks sitting in my project browser.
> >
> > Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?
> 
> Behaviors are very powerful for all sorts of things, whether you work alone or in a team of twenty.
> 
> The biggest benefit for teamwork comes from the very separate question of whether to use script-only stacks to define behaviors.  Script-only stacks are an ideal solution for Github-based workflows, but have minimal value (some, but not as much) for anyone not dependent on a version control system designed for other languages.
> 
> Ditch script-only stacks for now and continue to explore behaviors. You'll thank me.  You'll want to buy me lunch next time I'm in Santa Barbara.  I'll accept.  Behaviors will change everything, very powerfully, the more you explore and use them.
> 
> Once we step away from the very separate issue of script-only stacks, we have really only two guidelines for using behaviors effectively:
> 
> - A behavior definition can be any button or stack.
> 
> - When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
>  must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
>  memory.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> When exploring a new feature I like to make a simple stack I can use as a playground to poke around and experiment without mucking up anything important I'm working on.
> 
> Here's a quick tutorial that may get you hooked on the power of behaviors:
> 
> 1. Make a new stack titled "Behavior Playground"
> 
> 2. Add a button named "MyClass"
> 
> 3. Set the script of that button to:
> 
>    on mouseUp
>       answer the name of me
>    end mouseUp
> 
> There - you've just created a behavior, defining an action for what will be an entire class of custom button objects:
> 
> 4. Make a new button named "A"
> 
> 5. In the Message Box run:
> 
>   set the behavior of btn "A" to the long id of btn "MyClass"
> 
> 6. Make two copies of btn "A", naming them "B" and "C" respectively.
> 
> 7. Click any of them.
> 
> What you'll see is that each of them uses the script of button "MyClass" as if it's their own, bringing up an answer dialog showing the unique name of each.
> 
> At this point your mind is already thinking of a dozen times in recent projects where you have several objects you wanted to work the same without affecting any other scripts.  We could leave it here and you'd be off writing behaviors very productively right now.
> 
> But we're going to take this one step further - we'll create a superclass:
> 
> 8. Make a new button named "MySuperClass"
> 
> 9. Set this script of that button to:
> 
>   on mouseDown
>      grab me
>   end mouseDown
> 
> 10. In the Message Box run:
> 
>  set the behavior of btn "MyClass" to the long id of btn "MySuperClass"
> 
> 11. Drag any of the "A", "B", or "C" buttons.
> 
> In just 11 steps, each taking only a few seconds, you've just created a rich hierarchy of custom messaging:
> 
>      "A" "B" "C"
>        \  |  /
>         \ | /
>        MyClass
>           |
>           |
>     MySuperClass
> 
> 
> If you wanted the drag behavior used for an entirely different set of objects that do something else on mouseUp, you could make another button named "MyOtherClass" and extend your scope of custom controls even further:
> 
> "A" "B" "C" "D" "E" "F"
>   \  |  /     \  |  /
>    \ | /       \ | /
>   MyClass   MyOtherClass
>       \         /
>        \       /
>       MySuperClass
> 
> Behaviors can be chained as deeply as you like, allowing for very rich class hierarchies.
> 
> This will get you started.  And it only takes a few minutes to explore.
> 
> 
> ------ EXTRA CREDIT -------
> 
> After you feel comfortable with this, an extra credit exercise might be explore overriding and overloading.
> 
> Overriding is blocking an action defined in a parent by using a handler of the same name in a child.
> 
> For example, if you decided button "C" was different from the others and should reports its long ID rather than its name, you could write a script in it with:
> 
>  on mouseUp
>    answer the long id of me
>  end mouseUp
> 
> ...and it'll do that, without affecting any other behaviors provided by the parent script, or affecting any other objects that use the parent script.
> 
> Overloading is augmenting a behavior without replacing it.
> 
> So if you wanted your custom controls (buttons "A", "B", etc.) to be able to have their own mouseUp messages independent of any handling provided in their parent behavior script, you could write the behavior with either of two special forms of message handlers: before or after.
> 
> The script of button "MyClass" could be revised as:
> 
>  after mouseUp
>    answer the name of me
>  end mouseUp
> 
> ...and then the mouseUp message can be handled however you like in any of the class instances ("A", "B", etc.), yet the behavior script will also fire immediately after.
> 
> The "before <message>" works similarly, but as you can guess those fire before the child gets the message.
> 
> Before and after handlers are limited to behavior scripts, as they were added specifically to allow behaviors to augment actions without limiting the scope of normal messages a subscribed object can act on.
> 
> This may be a lot to take in all at once.
> 
> Play with steps 1 to 11 to get going, explore ways to apply that to your work.  Later on you can add "before" and "after" handlers if you need them.  You may not (I rarely use them), but if you do need them they're good to know about.
> 
> Don your pith helmet and begin your adventure!
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 17:51:52 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:51:52 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>
References: <C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56FD9BF8.9070207@fourthworld.com>

The difference between a library and a behavior is scope:  the library 
is global, while the behavior only affects the objects to which it's 
assigned.

The preloading thang with behaviors is somewhat specific, only coming 
into play when all three of the following are true:

- The behavior script must be outside of the stack file containing
   objects that depend on it;

- The objects that depend on it happen to be in a stack file loaded
   into memory before the external behavior stack is loaded;

- For some reason just setting the stackfiles property to include
   the external stack is prohibitive.

Most of my apps have a substack named "<appname>RSRC" where I keep 
images and such, and my behavior scripts are buttons there. I never 
think about behavior load order at all.


As for scope:

Your library option is a workable solution.  Indeed that's the only way 
we did things for many years.  And where it's a good fit we still do.

But what if you want to change the script so that rather than respond on 
mouseUp you want to respond to mouseDown?  Or add a handler for new 
mouse message?

With a library you'd either have to change the scripts of every object 
you want updated, or you could use the message name directly in the 
library with a condition in the library, e.g.:

    if the uClassName of the target is "MyClass" then...

But with a behavior you just edit one script.  Ever. For any change to 
all child objects it governs.

And being limited in scope to child objects assigned to it, a behavior 
is slightly more efficient than a library, since it's not in the message 
path for all of the objects it's unrelated to.

But that performance difference is tiny (very, almost immeasurable).

The biggest benefit is keeping all code in one place.  With a behavior 
you know that if any subscribed child has code in it, it's an exception 
and the code is there for a very distinct reason (overloading or 
overriding the behavior).

For all other objects of a class, chances are they'll have no code at 
all.  The only code they'll have is code that makes them unique; common 
code is stored in one common place.

A small stylistic benefit is not needing to keep track of the target, 
which may sometimes change during a multi-call sequence.

With behaviors, "me" refers to the child object subscribing to the 
behavior. So if you have complex routines that use "send" or "click at" 
or other things that can change the target, you still always know the 
child object using the behavior, "me".

In all respects the code acts as though it's attached to that child - it 
even maintains its own distinct set of local and script-local variables 
for each child.

This latter feature is very handy.  You could conceivably use custom 
properties similarly to keep info bound to the object, but unless you 
need that info to be persistent you'll want to clear it or reset it at 
some point.   But with variables within a behavior script being unique 
to each child using it, you never need to think about it - you just code 
as if you were coding on the object's own script.

For more sophisticated systems the ability to subclass can be very 
useful.  If you had a globally-available library that filters out class 
members with a condition, using subclasses or superclasses means adding 
more conditions.  But with behaviors it's just a single property setting 
on the affected behavior to chain another to it.

-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
____________________________________________________________________
Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com


William Prothero wrote:

 > Ok, for the sake of argument (and my learning), compare that to:
 >
 > 1. Make  new stack and call it ?Alt Behavior Playground?
 >
 > 2. Make a new button and enter the script:
 > on mouseDown
 >    put the long ID of the target into theTarg
 >    doABehavior theTarg
 > end mouseDown
 >
 > 3. Make a substack and call it ?myBehaviorLib?  ?just for the heck of
 > it.
 > Put the following script in it:
 >
 > on doABehavior tCtl
 >     doTheGrab tCtl
 > end doABehavior
 >
 >
 > on doTheGrab tCtl
 >    grab tCtl
 > end doTheGrab
 >
 > 4. Better do: start using stack ?myBehaviorLib?
 >
 > Run it and drag the button you made. This will work in all stacks
 > with the on mouseDown script in it.
 >
 > So, the ?myBehaviorLib? substack could be simply a script only stack
 > that contains some reasonable number of separate behavior type
 > scripts, and once the ?start using? is invoked, say on a preopenStack
 > script, all common code for button behaviors becomes a single code
 > element. Inheritance, like adding new behavior is just adding another
 > script to the ?on doABehavior? handler in the ?myBehaviorLib? stack.
 > What you don?t get is the ability to have the same name for a bunch
 > of different behaviors, but ?? perhaps it?s easier to keep track of
 > handler names that are different anyway.
 >
 > Somehow, this seems more direct to me. It also avoids the need for a
 > preloader stack the opens a bunch of small files that are behaviors.
 >
 > What do you think?





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar 31 17:58:05 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:58:05 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>
References: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
	<C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <56FD9D6D.3000106@ahsoftware.net>

Bill-

> So, the ?myBehaviorLib? substack could be simply a script only stack that contains some reasonable number of separate behavior type scripts, and once the ?start using? is invoked, say on a preopenStack script, all common code for button behaviors becomes a single code element. Inheritance, like adding new behavior is just adding another script to the ?on doABehavior? handler in the ?myBehaviorLib? stack.

There's nothing wrong with what you're suggesting there.
But it's a different use case from behaviors.

Let's say you have a stack with 100 buttons on it.
You want four of those buttons to have common handlers, but not the 
other 96 buttons.

You could write the handlers for one button and copypasta them into the 
other three similar buttons.

Or... you could throw the common handlers into a behavior script and 
link all four buttons to that object, no matter whether it's a button or 
a script-only stack.

The idea is that you have the common handlers in one place for easy 
maintenance and limited inheritance instead of global handlers. There's 
a need for both, but they're different.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Mar 31 18:09:29 2016
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:09:29 -0700
Subject: Multiple Versions of LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <etPan.56fd8c12.44efca48.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
References: <etPan.56fd8c12.44efca48.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
Message-ID: <D322EC88.7E341%scott@tactilemedia.com>

You can run multiple versions simultaneously -- I often run multiple
versions side by side, and copy scripts/objects between versions.
Settings can be an issue if you're going to have different locations for
extensions, etc -- not sure if the LiveCode people made accommodations for
that.

But an efficient way to work that has suggested on the mail list many
times is, if you use Dropbox or some other cloud sharing service, to place
your LC Extensions folder there. Set all versions of LC on the machine to
reference that folder, but also set up LC on other systems to reference
that same folder.  You will then have your plugins and utility stacks
available consistently across all systems.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 3/31/16, 1:44 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of
brahma at hindu.org> wrote:

>The read me notes on LC 8 say
>
>"Each version of LiveCode installs to its own, separate folder, to allow
>multiple versions of LiveCode to be installed side-by-side."
>
>Just to confirm:
>
>If we maintain all these in the applications folder (on mac)
>
>LiveCode Indy 7.5.app
>LiveCode Indy 8.0.0 (dp 16).app
>LiveCode Indy 8.0 (dp 15).app
>
>etc.
>
>and be sure to close anyone of them before using another...
>are we getting ourselves into trouble at all, does this affect the
>preferences?
>
>Of course we  would need to "save stack with format version" to run in
>7... and features not available 8 disappear e.g. use of new json lib.
>
>Any other caveats?
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de  Thu Mar 31 17:45:08 2016
From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:45:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459448995186-4702879.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <etPan.56faea4a.2d0f1e0b.255@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FCFE87.2010305@gmail.com>
	<1459448995186-4702879.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459460708560-4702898.post@n4.nabble.com>

Alejandro Tejada wrote
> By the way, just to complete in this same thread all masking options
> available, here is a recipe for using Scott Rossi's Hidden Point technique
> to mask an image:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Hidden-point-technique-to-mask-an-image-td2270248.html
> 
> A graphic with discontiguous points is just another way to create a vector
> mask.
> 
> 1) Create a new stack
> 2) Create a polygon graphic
> and set the points of it to:
> 
> 0,0
> 
> 34,268
> 224,268
> 127,365
> 34,268
> 
> 3) import an image into this stack,
> put the image in a corner, where it does not
> hide the graphic and:
> 
> set the backpattern of grc 1 to the id of img 1
> 
> (now, the imported image is cropped within
> the graphic)
> 
> 4) set the script of the graphic to this variation
> of Scott Rossi script to move the first point of
> the graphic and (at the same time) move the
> image within the graphic:
> Alejandro


Hi Alejandro,

thanks for the script. Again Scott found a neat trick!

here is a slight adaption of your version that avoids that you wander off
into the wrong direction and the image becomes unresponsive.

------------------------------------------
local lpoints,tClick,tFirstPoint 
-- based on Scott Rossi script for masking images 
local sMinX, sMinY

on mouseDown 
   put mouseH(),mouseV() into tClick 
   put the points of me into lpoints 
   put line 1 of lpoints into tFirstPoint
   put line 2 to - 1 of lpoints into tPointLIst
   filter tPointList without ""
   sort tPointList numeric ascending by item 1 of each
   put item 1 of line 1 of tPointList into sMinX
   sort tPointList numeric ascending by item 2 of each
   put item 2 of line 1 of tPointLIst into sMinY
   put "mouseDown" & cr & lpoints & cr & cr into fld 1 
end mouseDown 

on mouseMove X,Y 
   if tClick = "" then exit mouseMove 
   put  (X - item 1 of tClick,Y - item 2 of tClick) 
   put  (X - item 1 of tClick) + item 1 of tFirstPoint,(Y - item 2 of
tClick) + item 2 of tFirstPoint into line 1 of lpoints
   if item 1 of line 1 of lpoints > sMinX then put sMinX into item 1 of line
1 of lpoints
   if item 2 of line 1 of lpoints > sMinY then put sMinY into item 2 of line
1 of lpoints
   set the points of me to lpoints 
end mouseMove 

on mouseUp 
   put "" into tClick 
end mouseUp 

on mouseRelease 
   put "" into tClick 
end mouseRelease 
------------------------------------------

as usual watch for linebreaks.

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702898.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From brahma at hindu.org  Thu Mar 31 18:18:52 2016
From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:18:52 +0000
Subject: Multiple Versions of LC on Mac
In-Reply-To: <56FD8FF1.9010305@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <etPan.56fd8c12.44efca48.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD8FF1.9010305@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.56fda24b.e7c77ba.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>

Thanks Jacque:

I'm not using 6... but might want to send someone  a stack done in 8  but they are only using 7

or not:

the new jsonLib on board is a valuable addition and if we use it, then anyone touching the stack will need 8/16 (still very unstable, but fortunately doesn't break anything)


On March 31, 2016 at 11:00:54 AM, J. Landman Gay (jacque at hyperactivesw.com<mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>) wrote:

I almost always have at least 3 versions of LC running at once, and
sometimes more. You don't need to quit them to alternate.

From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Thu Mar 31 18:30:27 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:30:27 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>
References: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
	<C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1hJ28-=nedi1OvtVq8HZ=8sf3hw9br1WYasaHo0MQ=5jg@mail.gmail.com>

My solution to this:

Stack "MyTestStack" has a field, which is assigned stack
"MyBehaviorStack" as its behavior property.

Stack "MyBehaviorStack" is a separate stack file.

would be to also include the behavior *setting* in the preOpenStack handler
of "MyTestStack".

on preOpenStack
  set the behavior of field "FieldWithBehavior" of me to <path to
MyBehaviorStack>
end preOpenStack

This is the model used repeatedly for such things in the IDE.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:10 PM William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
wrote:

> Richard:
> Ok, for the sake of argument (and my learning), compare that to:
>
> 1. Make  new stack and call it ?Alt Behavior Playground?
>
> 2. Make a new button and enter the script:
> on mouseDown
>
>    put the long ID of the target into theTarg
>
>    doABehavior theTarg
>
> end mouseDown
>
> 3. Make a substack and call it ?myBehaviorLib?  ?just for the heck of it.
> Put the following script in it:
>
> on doABehavior tCtl
>
>     doTheGrab tCtl
>
> end doABehavior
>
>
> on doTheGrab tCtl
>
>    grab tCtl
>
> end doTheGrab
>
> 4. Better do: start using stack ?myBehaviorLib?
>
> Run it and drag the button you made. This will work in all stacks with the
> on mouseDown script in it.
>
> So, the ?myBehaviorLib? substack could be simply a script only stack that
> contains some reasonable number of separate behavior type scripts, and once
> the ?start using? is invoked, say on a preopenStack script, all common code
> for button behaviors becomes a single code element. Inheritance, like
> adding new behavior is just adding another script to the ?on doABehavior?
> handler in the ?myBehaviorLib? stack. What you don?t get is the ability to
> have the same name for a bunch of different behaviors, but ?? perhaps it?s
> easier to keep track of handler names that are different anyway.
>
> Somehow, this seems more direct to me. It also avoids the need for a
> preloader stack the opens a bunch of small files that are behaviors.
>
> What do you think?
> Bill
>
>
>
> > On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > William Prothero wrote:
> >
> > > Reading this kinda makes my head spin. Now I?m thinking it is going
> > > to be a heck of a lot more robust for my situation, as a single
> > > developer, to not use behaviors at all, but to have a single
> > > (possibly script only) substack that holds all of the handlers that I
> > > would normally use as behaviors, and just put a call to that handler
> > > in each button. I can use ?the target?  or ?me? as a passed variable
> > > to make the action specific to a particular control.
> > >
> > > This approach seems a lot less prone to idiosyncrasies and more
> > > easily transportable to other apps, to me. It also means that all of
> > > my ?behavior type scripts? would sit in a single script-only stack,
> > > which would make it a lot more convenient to access and edit than a
> > > bunch of small script only stacks sitting in my project browser.
> > >
> > > Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?
> >
> > Behaviors are very powerful for all sorts of things, whether you work
> alone or in a team of twenty.
> >
> > The biggest benefit for teamwork comes from the very separate question
> of whether to use script-only stacks to define behaviors.  Script-only
> stacks are an ideal solution for Github-based workflows, but have minimal
> value (some, but not as much) for anyone not dependent on a version control
> system designed for other languages.
> >
> > Ditch script-only stacks for now and continue to explore behaviors.
> You'll thank me.  You'll want to buy me lunch next time I'm in Santa
> Barbara.  I'll accept.  Behaviors will change everything, very powerfully,
> the more you explore and use them.
> >
> > Once we step away from the very separate issue of script-only stacks, we
> have really only two guidelines for using behaviors effectively:
> >
> > - A behavior definition can be any button or stack.
> >
> > - When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
> >  must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
> >  memory.
> >
> > That's it.
> >
> > When exploring a new feature I like to make a simple stack I can use as
> a playground to poke around and experiment without mucking up anything
> important I'm working on.
> >
> > Here's a quick tutorial that may get you hooked on the power of
> behaviors:
> >
> > 1. Make a new stack titled "Behavior Playground"
> >
> > 2. Add a button named "MyClass"
> >
> > 3. Set the script of that button to:
> >
> >    on mouseUp
> >       answer the name of me
> >    end mouseUp
> >
> > There - you've just created a behavior, defining an action for what will
> be an entire class of custom button objects:
> >
> > 4. Make a new button named "A"
> >
> > 5. In the Message Box run:
> >
> >   set the behavior of btn "A" to the long id of btn "MyClass"
> >
> > 6. Make two copies of btn "A", naming them "B" and "C" respectively.
> >
> > 7. Click any of them.
> >
> > What you'll see is that each of them uses the script of button "MyClass"
> as if it's their own, bringing up an answer dialog showing the unique name
> of each.
> >
> > At this point your mind is already thinking of a dozen times in recent
> projects where you have several objects you wanted to work the same without
> affecting any other scripts.  We could leave it here and you'd be off
> writing behaviors very productively right now.
> >
> > But we're going to take this one step further - we'll create a
> superclass:
> >
> > 8. Make a new button named "MySuperClass"
> >
> > 9. Set this script of that button to:
> >
> >   on mouseDown
> >      grab me
> >   end mouseDown
> >
> > 10. In the Message Box run:
> >
> >  set the behavior of btn "MyClass" to the long id of btn "MySuperClass"
> >
> > 11. Drag any of the "A", "B", or "C" buttons.
> >
> > In just 11 steps, each taking only a few seconds, you've just created a
> rich hierarchy of custom messaging:
> >
> >      "A" "B" "C"
> >        \  |  /
> >         \ | /
> >        MyClass
> >           |
> >           |
> >     MySuperClass
> >
> >
> > If you wanted the drag behavior used for an entirely different set of
> objects that do something else on mouseUp, you could make another button
> named "MyOtherClass" and extend your scope of custom controls even further:
> >
> > "A" "B" "C" "D" "E" "F"
> >   \  |  /     \  |  /
> >    \ | /       \ | /
> >   MyClass   MyOtherClass
> >       \         /
> >        \       /
> >       MySuperClass
> >
> > Behaviors can be chained as deeply as you like, allowing for very rich
> class hierarchies.
> >
> > This will get you started.  And it only takes a few minutes to explore.
> >
> >
> > ------ EXTRA CREDIT -------
> >
> > After you feel comfortable with this, an extra credit exercise might be
> explore overriding and overloading.
> >
> > Overriding is blocking an action defined in a parent by using a handler
> of the same name in a child.
> >
> > For example, if you decided button "C" was different from the others and
> should reports its long ID rather than its name, you could write a script
> in it with:
> >
> >  on mouseUp
> >    answer the long id of me
> >  end mouseUp
> >
> > ...and it'll do that, without affecting any other behaviors provided by
> the parent script, or affecting any other objects that use the parent
> script.
> >
> > Overloading is augmenting a behavior without replacing it.
> >
> > So if you wanted your custom controls (buttons "A", "B", etc.) to be
> able to have their own mouseUp messages independent of any handling
> provided in their parent behavior script, you could write the behavior with
> either of two special forms of message handlers: before or after.
> >
> > The script of button "MyClass" could be revised as:
> >
> >  after mouseUp
> >    answer the name of me
> >  end mouseUp
> >
> > ...and then the mouseUp message can be handled however you like in any
> of the class instances ("A", "B", etc.), yet the behavior script will also
> fire immediately after.
> >
> > The "before <message>" works similarly, but as you can guess those fire
> before the child gets the message.
> >
> > Before and after handlers are limited to behavior scripts, as they were
> added specifically to allow behaviors to augment actions without limiting
> the scope of normal messages a subscribed object can act on.
> >
> > This may be a lot to take in all at once.
> >
> > Play with steps 1 to 11 to get going, explore ways to apply that to your
> work.  Later on you can add "before" and "after" handlers if you need
> them.  You may not (I rarely use them), but if you do need them they're
> good to know about.
> >
> > Don your pith helmet and begin your adventure!
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World Systems
> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Thu Mar 31 18:33:32 2016
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:33:32 +0000
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1hJ28-=nedi1OvtVq8HZ=8sf3hw9br1WYasaHo0MQ=5jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
	<C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>
	<CAJR0Q1hJ28-=nedi1OvtVq8HZ=8sf3hw9br1WYasaHo0MQ=5jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1gtFsTDnWchzYT4+t=PxNXz-5QZd7dMf3N+jxz2mPA_TA@mail.gmail.com>

Or more accurately
on preOpenStack
  local tBehaviorLongID
  put the long id of stack "<path to MyBehaviorStack>" into tBehaviorLongID
  set the behavior of field "FieldWithBehavior" of me to tBehaviorLongID
end preOpenStack

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:31 PM Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:

> My solution to this:
>
> Stack "MyTestStack" has a field, which is assigned stack
> "MyBehaviorStack" as its behavior property.
>
> Stack "MyBehaviorStack" is a separate stack file.
>
> would be to also include the behavior *setting* in the preOpenStack
> handler of "MyTestStack".
>
> on preOpenStack
>   set the behavior of field "FieldWithBehavior" of me to <path to
> MyBehaviorStack>
> end preOpenStack
>
> This is the model used repeatedly for such things in the IDE.
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:10 PM William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Richard:
>> Ok, for the sake of argument (and my learning), compare that to:
>>
>> 1. Make  new stack and call it ?Alt Behavior Playground?
>>
>> 2. Make a new button and enter the script:
>> on mouseDown
>>
>>    put the long ID of the target into theTarg
>>
>>    doABehavior theTarg
>>
>> end mouseDown
>>
>> 3. Make a substack and call it ?myBehaviorLib?  ?just for the heck of it.
>> Put the following script in it:
>>
>> on doABehavior tCtl
>>
>>     doTheGrab tCtl
>>
>> end doABehavior
>>
>>
>> on doTheGrab tCtl
>>
>>    grab tCtl
>>
>> end doTheGrab
>>
>> 4. Better do: start using stack ?myBehaviorLib?
>>
>> Run it and drag the button you made. This will work in all stacks with
>> the on mouseDown script in it.
>>
>> So, the ?myBehaviorLib? substack could be simply a script only stack that
>> contains some reasonable number of separate behavior type scripts, and once
>> the ?start using? is invoked, say on a preopenStack script, all common code
>> for button behaviors becomes a single code element. Inheritance, like
>> adding new behavior is just adding another script to the ?on doABehavior?
>> handler in the ?myBehaviorLib? stack. What you don?t get is the ability to
>> have the same name for a bunch of different behaviors, but ?? perhaps it?s
>> easier to keep track of handler names that are different anyway.
>>
>> Somehow, this seems more direct to me. It also avoids the need for a
>> preloader stack the opens a bunch of small files that are behaviors.
>>
>> What do you think?
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > William Prothero wrote:
>> >
>> > > Reading this kinda makes my head spin. Now I?m thinking it is going
>> > > to be a heck of a lot more robust for my situation, as a single
>> > > developer, to not use behaviors at all, but to have a single
>> > > (possibly script only) substack that holds all of the handlers that I
>> > > would normally use as behaviors, and just put a call to that handler
>> > > in each button. I can use ?the target?  or ?me? as a passed variable
>> > > to make the action specific to a particular control.
>> > >
>> > > This approach seems a lot less prone to idiosyncrasies and more
>> > > easily transportable to other apps, to me. It also means that all of
>> > > my ?behavior type scripts? would sit in a single script-only stack,
>> > > which would make it a lot more convenient to access and edit than a
>> > > bunch of small script only stacks sitting in my project browser.
>> > >
>> > > Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?
>> >
>> > Behaviors are very powerful for all sorts of things, whether you work
>> alone or in a team of twenty.
>> >
>> > The biggest benefit for teamwork comes from the very separate question
>> of whether to use script-only stacks to define behaviors.  Script-only
>> stacks are an ideal solution for Github-based workflows, but have minimal
>> value (some, but not as much) for anyone not dependent on a version control
>> system designed for other languages.
>> >
>> > Ditch script-only stacks for now and continue to explore behaviors.
>> You'll thank me.  You'll want to buy me lunch next time I'm in Santa
>> Barbara.  I'll accept.  Behaviors will change everything, very powerfully,
>> the more you explore and use them.
>> >
>> > Once we step away from the very separate issue of script-only stacks,
>> we have really only two guidelines for using behaviors effectively:
>> >
>> > - A behavior definition can be any button or stack.
>> >
>> > - When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
>> >  must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
>> >  memory.
>> >
>> > That's it.
>> >
>> > When exploring a new feature I like to make a simple stack I can use as
>> a playground to poke around and experiment without mucking up anything
>> important I'm working on.
>> >
>> > Here's a quick tutorial that may get you hooked on the power of
>> behaviors:
>> >
>> > 1. Make a new stack titled "Behavior Playground"
>> >
>> > 2. Add a button named "MyClass"
>> >
>> > 3. Set the script of that button to:
>> >
>> >    on mouseUp
>> >       answer the name of me
>> >    end mouseUp
>> >
>> > There - you've just created a behavior, defining an action for what
>> will be an entire class of custom button objects:
>> >
>> > 4. Make a new button named "A"
>> >
>> > 5. In the Message Box run:
>> >
>> >   set the behavior of btn "A" to the long id of btn "MyClass"
>> >
>> > 6. Make two copies of btn "A", naming them "B" and "C" respectively.
>> >
>> > 7. Click any of them.
>> >
>> > What you'll see is that each of them uses the script of button
>> "MyClass" as if it's their own, bringing up an answer dialog showing the
>> unique name of each.
>> >
>> > At this point your mind is already thinking of a dozen times in recent
>> projects where you have several objects you wanted to work the same without
>> affecting any other scripts.  We could leave it here and you'd be off
>> writing behaviors very productively right now.
>> >
>> > But we're going to take this one step further - we'll create a
>> superclass:
>> >
>> > 8. Make a new button named "MySuperClass"
>> >
>> > 9. Set this script of that button to:
>> >
>> >   on mouseDown
>> >      grab me
>> >   end mouseDown
>> >
>> > 10. In the Message Box run:
>> >
>> >  set the behavior of btn "MyClass" to the long id of btn "MySuperClass"
>> >
>> > 11. Drag any of the "A", "B", or "C" buttons.
>> >
>> > In just 11 steps, each taking only a few seconds, you've just created a
>> rich hierarchy of custom messaging:
>> >
>> >      "A" "B" "C"
>> >        \  |  /
>> >         \ | /
>> >        MyClass
>> >           |
>> >           |
>> >     MySuperClass
>> >
>> >
>> > If you wanted the drag behavior used for an entirely different set of
>> objects that do something else on mouseUp, you could make another button
>> named "MyOtherClass" and extend your scope of custom controls even further:
>> >
>> > "A" "B" "C" "D" "E" "F"
>> >   \  |  /     \  |  /
>> >    \ | /       \ | /
>> >   MyClass   MyOtherClass
>> >       \         /
>> >        \       /
>> >       MySuperClass
>> >
>> > Behaviors can be chained as deeply as you like, allowing for very rich
>> class hierarchies.
>> >
>> > This will get you started.  And it only takes a few minutes to explore.
>> >
>> >
>> > ------ EXTRA CREDIT -------
>> >
>> > After you feel comfortable with this, an extra credit exercise might be
>> explore overriding and overloading.
>> >
>> > Overriding is blocking an action defined in a parent by using a handler
>> of the same name in a child.
>> >
>> > For example, if you decided button "C" was different from the others
>> and should reports its long ID rather than its name, you could write a
>> script in it with:
>> >
>> >  on mouseUp
>> >    answer the long id of me
>> >  end mouseUp
>> >
>> > ...and it'll do that, without affecting any other behaviors provided by
>> the parent script, or affecting any other objects that use the parent
>> script.
>> >
>> > Overloading is augmenting a behavior without replacing it.
>> >
>> > So if you wanted your custom controls (buttons "A", "B", etc.) to be
>> able to have their own mouseUp messages independent of any handling
>> provided in their parent behavior script, you could write the behavior with
>> either of two special forms of message handlers: before or after.
>> >
>> > The script of button "MyClass" could be revised as:
>> >
>> >  after mouseUp
>> >    answer the name of me
>> >  end mouseUp
>> >
>> > ...and then the mouseUp message can be handled however you like in any
>> of the class instances ("A", "B", etc.), yet the behavior script will also
>> fire immediately after.
>> >
>> > The "before <message>" works similarly, but as you can guess those fire
>> before the child gets the message.
>> >
>> > Before and after handlers are limited to behavior scripts, as they were
>> added specifically to allow behaviors to augment actions without limiting
>> the scope of normal messages a subscribed object can act on.
>> >
>> > This may be a lot to take in all at once.
>> >
>> > Play with steps 1 to 11 to get going, explore ways to apply that to
>> your work.  Later on you can add "before" and "after" handlers if you need
>> them.  You may not (I rarely use them), but if you do need them they're
>> good to know about.
>> >
>> > Don your pith helmet and begin your adventure!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Richard Gaskin
>> > Fourth World Systems
>> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> > ____________________________________________________________________
>> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>


From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 18:05:30 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:05:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using LC for Interactive Tutorial
In-Reply-To: <BAAB5F09-2FC2-47CB-A884-2E13C613A6E9@livecode.com>
References: <BAAB5F09-2FC2-47CB-A884-2E13C613A6E9@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1459461930396-4702902.post@n4.nabble.com>

This is Amazing! :D

Just a few questions:

Does this new feature offers a method to display custom stacks
that execute messages and display animations?

Could we use this new feature in our own stacks and applications?

When are we going to see an interactive tutorial that
explains how to create interactive tutorials? :-)

Alejandro




--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Using-LC-for-Interactive-Tutorial-tp4702865p4702902.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Mar 31 20:14:33 2016
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:14:33 -0700
Subject: need your ios app approved in a hurry?
Message-ID: <56FDBD69.5090103@ahsoftware.net>


<http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/This-guy-found-a-hidden-way-to-skip-Apple-s-app-7220129.php>

Here's the generator:

http://www.elasticode.com/dear-apple.php

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 19:46:22 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:46:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
In-Reply-To: <1459460708560-4702898.post@n4.nabble.com>
References: <1459309066526-4702767.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459335650350-4702783.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459358825190-4702801.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459360080004-4702803.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459367544890-4702823.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459368964150-4702827.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459382385531-4702838.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<56FCFE87.2010305@gmail.com>
	<1459448995186-4702879.post@n4.nabble.com>
	<1459460708560-4702898.post@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1459467982156-4702904.post@n4.nabble.com>

Great! :D

Now the big question :D

Who volunteer to build (and maintain) a plug-in 
(palette or modeless stack) that explains and 
create the many ways of masking an image:

1) Group with an image and graphic
(using inks effects)

2) Image and graphic or
Image and Transparent Image
(using snapshot)

3) Image and grahic
(using backpattern and script)

Just one more thing: 
In the "About" card of this
plug-in, post links to each
one of these threads from
the mail list and forum.

Thanks in advance!

Alejandro





--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Design-Challenge-Round-Corner-mask-on-images-tp4702659p4702904.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From prothero at earthednet.org  Thu Mar 31 20:34:59 2016
From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:34:59 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1gtFsTDnWchzYT4+t=PxNXz-5QZd7dMf3N+jxz2mPA_TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19E60D96-6A43-464A-B844-9E304F48690F@earthednet.org>
	<56FD55DE.1070106@fourthworld.com>
	<C7DDDAC1-965F-40F4-BB23-E9EE76EAC2F8@earthednet.org>
	<CAJR0Q1hJ28-=nedi1OvtVq8HZ=8sf3hw9br1WYasaHo0MQ=5jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJR0Q1gtFsTDnWchzYT4+t=PxNXz-5QZd7dMf3N+jxz2mPA_TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B32F99A7-36DD-4900-B205-0C94547AA6B5@earthednet.org>

Thanks for the comments. Very interesting. And I guess the big advantage of behaviors over a library is the scope issue.

I?ll put this info into my toolchest.
Best,
Bill

> On Mar 31, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
> Or more accurately
> on preOpenStack
>  local tBehaviorLongID
>  put the long id of stack "<path to MyBehaviorStack>" into tBehaviorLongID
>  set the behavior of field "FieldWithBehavior" of me to tBehaviorLongID
> end preOpenStack
> 
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:31 PM Ali Lloyd <ali.lloyd at livecode.com> wrote:
> 
>> My solution to this:
>> 
>> Stack "MyTestStack" has a field, which is assigned stack
>> "MyBehaviorStack" as its behavior property.
>> 
>> Stack "MyBehaviorStack" is a separate stack file.
>> 
>> would be to also include the behavior *setting* in the preOpenStack
>> handler of "MyTestStack".
>> 
>> on preOpenStack
>>  set the behavior of field "FieldWithBehavior" of me to <path to
>> MyBehaviorStack>
>> end preOpenStack
>> 
>> This is the model used repeatedly for such things in the IDE.
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:10 PM William Prothero <prothero at earthednet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Richard:
>>> Ok, for the sake of argument (and my learning), compare that to:
>>> 
>>> 1. Make  new stack and call it ?Alt Behavior Playground?
>>> 
>>> 2. Make a new button and enter the script:
>>> on mouseDown
>>> 
>>>   put the long ID of the target into theTarg
>>> 
>>>   doABehavior theTarg
>>> 
>>> end mouseDown
>>> 
>>> 3. Make a substack and call it ?myBehaviorLib?  ?just for the heck of it.
>>> Put the following script in it:
>>> 
>>> on doABehavior tCtl
>>> 
>>>    doTheGrab tCtl
>>> 
>>> end doABehavior
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on doTheGrab tCtl
>>> 
>>>   grab tCtl
>>> 
>>> end doTheGrab
>>> 
>>> 4. Better do: start using stack ?myBehaviorLib?
>>> 
>>> Run it and drag the button you made. This will work in all stacks with
>>> the on mouseDown script in it.
>>> 
>>> So, the ?myBehaviorLib? substack could be simply a script only stack that
>>> contains some reasonable number of separate behavior type scripts, and once
>>> the ?start using? is invoked, say on a preopenStack script, all common code
>>> for button behaviors becomes a single code element. Inheritance, like
>>> adding new behavior is just adding another script to the ?on doABehavior?
>>> handler in the ?myBehaviorLib? stack. What you don?t get is the ability to
>>> have the same name for a bunch of different behaviors, but ?? perhaps it?s
>>> easier to keep track of handler names that are different anyway.
>>> 
>>> Somehow, this seems more direct to me. It also avoids the need for a
>>> preloader stack the opens a bunch of small files that are behaviors.
>>> 
>>> What do you think?
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> William Prothero wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Reading this kinda makes my head spin. Now I?m thinking it is going
>>>>> to be a heck of a lot more robust for my situation, as a single
>>>>> developer, to not use behaviors at all, but to have a single
>>>>> (possibly script only) substack that holds all of the handlers that I
>>>>> would normally use as behaviors, and just put a call to that handler
>>>>> in each button. I can use ?the target?  or ?me? as a passed variable
>>>>> to make the action specific to a particular control.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This approach seems a lot less prone to idiosyncrasies and more
>>>>> easily transportable to other apps, to me. It also means that all of
>>>>> my ?behavior type scripts? would sit in a single script-only stack,
>>>>> which would make it a lot more convenient to access and edit than a
>>>>> bunch of small script only stacks sitting in my project browser.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am I wrong. misguided, foolish, or brilliant?
>>>> 
>>>> Behaviors are very powerful for all sorts of things, whether you work
>>> alone or in a team of twenty.
>>>> 
>>>> The biggest benefit for teamwork comes from the very separate question
>>> of whether to use script-only stacks to define behaviors.  Script-only
>>> stacks are an ideal solution for Github-based workflows, but have minimal
>>> value (some, but not as much) for anyone not dependent on a version control
>>> system designed for other languages.
>>>> 
>>>> Ditch script-only stacks for now and continue to explore behaviors.
>>> You'll thank me.  You'll want to buy me lunch next time I'm in Santa
>>> Barbara.  I'll accept.  Behaviors will change everything, very powerfully,
>>> the more you explore and use them.
>>>> 
>>>> Once we step away from the very separate issue of script-only stacks,
>>> we have really only two guidelines for using behaviors effectively:
>>>> 
>>>> - A behavior definition can be any button or stack.
>>>> 
>>>> - When using behaviors, the object containing the behavior script
>>>> must be in memory when anything relying on it is brought into
>>>> memory.
>>>> 
>>>> That's it.
>>>> 
>>>> When exploring a new feature I like to make a simple stack I can use as
>>> a playground to poke around and experiment without mucking up anything
>>> important I'm working on.
>>>> 
>>>> Here's a quick tutorial that may get you hooked on the power of
>>> behaviors:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. Make a new stack titled "Behavior Playground"
>>>> 
>>>> 2. Add a button named "MyClass"
>>>> 
>>>> 3. Set the script of that button to:
>>>> 
>>>>   on mouseUp
>>>>      answer the name of me
>>>>   end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> There - you've just created a behavior, defining an action for what
>>> will be an entire class of custom button objects:
>>>> 
>>>> 4. Make a new button named "A"
>>>> 
>>>> 5. In the Message Box run:
>>>> 
>>>>  set the behavior of btn "A" to the long id of btn "MyClass"
>>>> 
>>>> 6. Make two copies of btn "A", naming them "B" and "C" respectively.
>>>> 
>>>> 7. Click any of them.
>>>> 
>>>> What you'll see is that each of them uses the script of button
>>> "MyClass" as if it's their own, bringing up an answer dialog showing the
>>> unique name of each.
>>>> 
>>>> At this point your mind is already thinking of a dozen times in recent
>>> projects where you have several objects you wanted to work the same without
>>> affecting any other scripts.  We could leave it here and you'd be off
>>> writing behaviors very productively right now.
>>>> 
>>>> But we're going to take this one step further - we'll create a
>>> superclass:
>>>> 
>>>> 8. Make a new button named "MySuperClass"
>>>> 
>>>> 9. Set this script of that button to:
>>>> 
>>>>  on mouseDown
>>>>     grab me
>>>>  end mouseDown
>>>> 
>>>> 10. In the Message Box run:
>>>> 
>>>> set the behavior of btn "MyClass" to the long id of btn "MySuperClass"
>>>> 
>>>> 11. Drag any of the "A", "B", or "C" buttons.
>>>> 
>>>> In just 11 steps, each taking only a few seconds, you've just created a
>>> rich hierarchy of custom messaging:
>>>> 
>>>>     "A" "B" "C"
>>>>       \  |  /
>>>>        \ | /
>>>>       MyClass
>>>>          |
>>>>          |
>>>>    MySuperClass
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If you wanted the drag behavior used for an entirely different set of
>>> objects that do something else on mouseUp, you could make another button
>>> named "MyOtherClass" and extend your scope of custom controls even further:
>>>> 
>>>> "A" "B" "C" "D" "E" "F"
>>>>  \  |  /     \  |  /
>>>>   \ | /       \ | /
>>>>  MyClass   MyOtherClass
>>>>      \         /
>>>>       \       /
>>>>      MySuperClass
>>>> 
>>>> Behaviors can be chained as deeply as you like, allowing for very rich
>>> class hierarchies.
>>>> 
>>>> This will get you started.  And it only takes a few minutes to explore.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------ EXTRA CREDIT -------
>>>> 
>>>> After you feel comfortable with this, an extra credit exercise might be
>>> explore overriding and overloading.
>>>> 
>>>> Overriding is blocking an action defined in a parent by using a handler
>>> of the same name in a child.
>>>> 
>>>> For example, if you decided button "C" was different from the others
>>> and should reports its long ID rather than its name, you could write a
>>> script in it with:
>>>> 
>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>   answer the long id of me
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> ...and it'll do that, without affecting any other behaviors provided by
>>> the parent script, or affecting any other objects that use the parent
>>> script.
>>>> 
>>>> Overloading is augmenting a behavior without replacing it.
>>>> 
>>>> So if you wanted your custom controls (buttons "A", "B", etc.) to be
>>> able to have their own mouseUp messages independent of any handling
>>> provided in their parent behavior script, you could write the behavior with
>>> either of two special forms of message handlers: before or after.
>>>> 
>>>> The script of button "MyClass" could be revised as:
>>>> 
>>>> after mouseUp
>>>>   answer the name of me
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> ...and then the mouseUp message can be handled however you like in any
>>> of the class instances ("A", "B", etc.), yet the behavior script will also
>>> fire immediately after.
>>>> 
>>>> The "before <message>" works similarly, but as you can guess those fire
>>> before the child gets the message.
>>>> 
>>>> Before and after handlers are limited to behavior scripts, as they were
>>> added specifically to allow behaviors to augment actions without limiting
>>> the scope of normal messages a subscribed object can act on.
>>>> 
>>>> This may be a lot to take in all at once.
>>>> 
>>>> Play with steps 1 to 11 to get going, explore ways to apply that to
>>> your work.  Later on you can add "before" and "after" handlers if you need
>>> them.  You may not (I rarely use them), but if you do need them they're
>>> good to know about.
>>>> 
>>>> Don your pith helmet and begin your adventure!
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Richard Gaskin
>>>> Fourth World Systems
>>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 20:47:33 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:47:33 -0700
Subject: PDF text extraction?
Message-ID: <56FDC525.6070001@fourthworld.com>

I may need to extract text from a fair number of PDFs (hundreds).  I can 
find all sorts of third-party tools to do that, many of them free and 
easy to use, but I'd prefer to integrate this step into some other 
things I need to do with the files.

The format isn't as simple as Word or docx, though.  I'm not even sure 
if we have support in LC for the compression used in the text streams. 
Lots of parts there.

Anyone here have a library or external for extracting text from PDFs? 
Ideally a good solution would be available for Win, Mac, and Linux.

TIA -

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From blueback09 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 20:59:20 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:59:20 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FD8B73.707@fourthworld.com>
References: <etPan.56fd840c.3e47b0c8.d166@Brahmanathaswami.local>
	<56FD8B73.707@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DqVRrKU7PmgFR+RjhG2LmMwVnogY7b2jDba+mE-=Jb4HA@mail.gmail.com>

I just want to chime in to disagree with the idea that we should leave
useful information out of the Dictionary.

There's no such thing as a document that's too big when we have networks
and search. Even if we're forced to browse and read we can just put the
information in order of importance so that the more trivial stuff is at the
end.

If it takes a while to explain, then it takes a while to explain. If there
are a lot of caveats, then there are a lot of caveats. That sounds like a
good reason to simplify the application, not a good reason to keep secrets.
What feels like a "hefty tome" to someone with decades of experience feels
like a "gold mine" to someone with no experience. A lot of gold is heavy;
that's just how it works.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>
> > I think the idea that you have to open an external behavior stack
> > *before* you open the main stack that has controls which point to
> > it as their parent, is totally unintuitive and when a newbie reads
> > "load, open, put into memory" etc... he/she will always assume this
> > can happen in the preopenstack handler.
>
> Perhaps.  Ideally we'd need to user-test that to affirm the assumption. It
> wouldn't have occurred to me, but I've spent too long using xTalks to be a
> reliable gauge of what it takes to learn them (which is why the older I get
> the more ardent I've become about listening carefully to people who know
> nothing about the software; that precious naivety leaves so quickly, and is
> invaluable during that brief moment it still exists).
>
> The one thing everyone agrees on is that the current need to be so aware
> of load order for behavior resolution is undesirable and needs to be
> changed at first opportunity.  Mark Waddingham doesn't much care for it any
> more than you or I do.  I'd be surprised if it isn't resolved (all puns
> intended) by 8.2 if not sooner.
>
> Fortunately we have the convenient stackFiles property to make this a bit
> simpler in the meantime.
>
>
> > "Load "MyBehaviorStack" into memory without opening it. "
> >
> > It is or is not open after you query the property? do you really mean:
> >
> > "You can query a property to open the stack in the background and put
> > its stack script into memory."
>
> Whether a stack is "open" if loaded into memory without using an "open" or
> "go" command is perhaps a philosophical question.
>
> Personally I try to use "open" to describe a stack's runtime state only in
> cases where I brought it into RAM with "open" or "go", and the rare case of
> anything else as simply "in memory".
>
>
> > a) b) (with explanation above)  c) below + Jacque's explanation could
> > go in the dictionary... I don't think that's over loading it. had
> > that been what I read at Git Hub, we could have avoided several days
> > for lost time.
>
> Go for it, but please be brief in Dictionary entries.   This thread is as
> long as it is in part because of a misunderstanding of what "start using"
> does, which may merit mention there but on the other hand if we included
> caveats in every Dictionary entry to cover mistakes I've made trying to
> misapply commands it would be a tome too hefty to read. :)
>
> Rather than enumerate all possible ways do not do something, just focus on
> what you want them to do.
>
>
> > OTOH, we did get the gold out of it:  your nested behaviors/as-
> >classes tutorial...
> >
> > So it was all worth it!
>
> Glad that was helpful.   Nested behaviors are da bombdiggety!
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 20:47:27 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:47:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OT] World Backup Day
In-Reply-To: <56FD8D14.8050904@fourthworld.com>
References: <56FD8D14.8050904@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1459471647872-4702908.post@n4.nabble.com>

Good question...

I have only backups of Documents,
not System Images.



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-World-Backup-Day-tp4702892p4702908.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jf_byrnes at comcast.net  Thu Mar 31 21:24:50 2016
From: jf_byrnes at comcast.net (Jim Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:24:50 -0500
Subject: Difficulty using Livecode.com
Message-ID: <ndkil3$ihn$1@ger.gmane.org>

As a new user I sometimes find Livecode.com difficult to use.  Generally 
speaking I find some parts of it not very intuitive. Specifically I had 
this problem:

[1] I go to Livecode.com and click on the Get Started button.

[2] That takes me here: https://livecode.com/download/. Since I have 
already downloaded Livecode, I fill out my firstname and email and click 
the Get Started button.

[3] I am informed (correctly) that this email is already associated with 
a Livecode account, log in (here) instead. So I click (here) and go 
here: https://livecode.com/download/ and log in.

[4] Then I am taken to here: 
http://livecode.com/account/products/livecode. At this point I am 
wondering why I was not taken back to the getting started page to move 
on in the app building tutorial.

[5] Not sure what I should do at this point. I go back to livecode.com.
I fill out the form again and click the get started button and receive 
the same message about logging in, but I just logged in and the site 
seems to know I am logged in because my name is displayed in the upper 
right hand corner.

Maybe the page is only for people that do not have an account, but 
sending a person that has an account on an endless loop leads to a 
frustrating experience.

Of course maybe I am misunderstanding something about the site, if so I 
would appreciate someone showing me where I went wrong.

Regards,  Jim




From jim at d-film.com  Thu Mar 31 21:32:44 2016
From: jim at d-film.com (Jim Kanter)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:32:44 -0400
Subject: Difficulty using Livecode.com
In-Reply-To: <ndkil3$ihn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndkil3$ihn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CA+n2HHN_ZdwKj992y+F5eBKU+hgU-UUHX1wu95AeSAzwFL8K8g@mail.gmail.com>

Depending on what you want to do, I'd suggest clicking on the
Resources menu item at the top of the home page. Or you can use this
link:

https://livecode.com/resources/

Hope this helps.

Jim

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Jim Byrnes <jf_byrnes at comcast.net> wrote:
> As a new user I sometimes find Livecode.com difficult to use.  Generally
> speaking I find some parts of it not very intuitive. Specifically I had this
> problem:
>
> [1] I go to Livecode.com and click on the Get Started button.
>
> [2] That takes me here: https://livecode.com/download/. Since I have already
> downloaded Livecode, I fill out my firstname and email and click the Get
> Started button.
>
> [3] I am informed (correctly) that this email is already associated with a
> Livecode account, log in (here) instead. So I click (here) and go here:
> https://livecode.com/download/ and log in.
>
> [4] Then I am taken to here: http://livecode.com/account/products/livecode.
> At this point I am wondering why I was not taken back to the getting started
> page to move on in the app building tutorial.
>
> [5] Not sure what I should do at this point. I go back to livecode.com.
> I fill out the form again and click the get started button and receive the
> same message about logging in, but I just logged in and the site seems to
> know I am logged in because my name is displayed in the upper right hand
> corner.
>
> Maybe the page is only for people that do not have an account, but sending a
> person that has an account on an endless loop leads to a frustrating
> experience.
>
> Of course maybe I am misunderstanding something about the site, if so I
> would appreciate someone showing me where I went wrong.
>
> Regards,  Jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From capellan2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 21:05:35 2016
From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 18:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PDF text extraction?
In-Reply-To: <56FDC525.6070001@fourthworld.com>
References: <56FDC525.6070001@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1459472735662-4702911.post@n4.nabble.com>

Hi Richard,

Could you use command line tools like pdftk or qpdf?

Check this:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15058207/pdftk-will-not-decompress-data-streams

and this:

https://books.google.com.do/books?id=ozWeSBkPQW4C&pg=PA205&lpg=PA205&dq=uncompress+and+save+pdf+streams&source=bl&ots=9LyTX9eHMe&sig=nmvt8iXLCF5NTNpBEQQJadGbR34&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQpPuFpezLAhUHlh4KHffsBSUQ6AEITzAI#v=onepage&q=uncompress%20and%20save%20pdf%20streams&f=false



--
View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/PDF-text-extraction-tp4702906p4702911.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Mar 31 21:43:41 2016
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 18:43:41 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <CA+S82DqVRrKU7PmgFR+RjhG2LmMwVnogY7b2jDba+mE-=Jb4HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+S82DqVRrKU7PmgFR+RjhG2LmMwVnogY7b2jDba+mE-=Jb4HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FDD24D.4090805@fourthworld.com>

Matt Maier wrote:

 > I just want to chime in to disagree with the idea that we should leave
 > useful information out of the Dictionary.

When you put it like that it sounds silly indeed.  Fortunately I wasn't 
advocating omitting useful information, just suggesting we may want to 
maintain an awareness for the scope of doc options at our disposal, and 
be mindful about which details go where.

If you were advocating silliness we might put the User Guide, the 
Lessons, and every LiveCode blog into the Dictionary.  But I know you're 
not.

We want useful information, where it's most useful.


 > There's no such thing as a document that's too big when we have
 > networks and search.

That's precisely why I advocate maintaining the Dictionary as an 
essential reference (as in "essence"); it should be easy to link to 
relevant tutorials and guides for more complete discussion when desired.


 > If it takes a while to explain, then it takes a while to explain.

One of the products I work in is a medial reference for pediatric 
emergency specialists.  Much of its info is in the Physician's Desk 
Reference and a large number of current research papers, but what 
distinguishes our product is that it has LESS information than other 
available sources.

"What's that?  Less?"

Yes.  The PDR is too big to read.  Every doctor has it; few open it. 
And the wealth of information at PubMed is too vast to sift through when 
you have an ER case load stacked up.

So our team is comprised of ER specialists from around the world who 
gather the best information on modern practice available, and work 
diligently to distill it to its most valuable essence useful in a 
clinical setting.

The LiveCode Dictionary need not be quite as sparse; no one's dying on 
an ER table waiting for us to find the parameters to "import snapshot" 
(and God help them if they were <g>).

But there are different forms of docs because each serves a different 
purpose.


 > If there are a lot of caveats, then there are a lot of caveats.
 > That sounds like a good reason to simplify the application, not
 > a good reason to keep secrets.

Simplifying the app is indeed the first goal.  Mark Waddingham has 
already slated behavior resolution for cleanup, so it will become 
simpler at some point in the future.

But in the here and now, rest assured there's no conspiracy to keep 
anything secret.

The question on the table is: what is most appropriate in the 
Dictionary, and what is most appropriate for another resource?

The Dictionary is not a User Guide, nor a tutorial.  It's a reference 
for understanding what an API token expects, and what will be returned.

There are many caveats throughout the Dictionary, and arguably there 
should be more.

But I would caution against turning it into the most comprehensive 
collection of all possible things one might mistakenly do and how to 
avoid them.  Each page could be 1MB or more with just mistakes I've made 
alone. :)

In this specific case, a key part of the original confusion resulted not 
from something missing from the "behavior" entry, but by not consulting 
the "start using" entry.  I've been teaching xTalks for decades, and 
that's one mismatch I'd not previously encountered.  In retrospect it's 
understandable, and I won't completely rule out the possibility that a 
note about "start using" not being relevant to "behavior" may be worth 
putting in.

But so many things aren't relevant to so many others, it seems more 
helpful to guide the user to the things that are.  Rather than talk 
their ear off with entries longer than my posts here about all the 
possible ways things might go wrong, it seems simpler and more 
respectful of their time to just show them the way to do things right 
and let them enjoy success and move on.


 > What feels like a "hefty tome" to someone with decades of experience
 > feels like a "gold mine" to someone with no experience. A lot of gold
 > is heavy; that's just how it works.

Agreed.  Some of the best reading I've had is with technical specs.

I believe in-depth discussion of collections of related concepts are 
best handled in User Guides.

The Dictionary serves a more specialized role.

Tutorials serve yet another role.

All are important.  And each distinct.

And we have to face an important consideration with all learning 
materials in all fields of human endeavor:  no matter how complete, no 
matter how well written, only part of it will be read, and mistakes will 
be made.

Learning happens only in a small way from reading.  The greatest depth 
and retention occurs through hands-on practice.  And the nature of 
practice means making mistakes, understanding the nature of the specific 
mistake made, and correcting it.  You can read about a piano all day 
long, and never understand as much about it as an hour at the keyboard. 
  Similarly, I believe interactive media is best learned through 
interaction.

Not that we shouldn't aim high with the docs.  But it's important to 
remember that the sum of all documentation is only a small part of how 
people learn; that's just how it works. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From blueback09 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 22:56:38 2016
From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:56:38 -0700
Subject: Script Only Stack Architecture
In-Reply-To: <56FDD24D.4090805@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+S82DqVRrKU7PmgFR+RjhG2LmMwVnogY7b2jDba+mE-=Jb4HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<56FDD24D.4090805@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+S82DpOAMjkVurofp7LRSCT5cSgHp=vv9sCck9-fwwmaFfHrg@mail.gmail.com>

You keep citing the theoretically limitless number of contingencies that,
if addressed, could bloat the dictionary beyond readability. There's a
simple solution to that problem: don't go looking for theoretical problems.

Instead, just correct, massage, or add to the dictionary entry when someone
has a problem relevant to that entry.

I've also maintained gigantic technical references (fighter aircraft
weapons systems, satellite operations, and ground control systems) and we
followed that simple process. The TOs (technical orders) started out with
just the instructions from the factory. Over time they accumulated
corrections, warnings, cautions, and notes in response to actual events.
That way the extra information appeared right where it was needed and
nobody wasted time on any theoretically necessary information.

That's a big part of helping people learn on their own. Putting the
information they need right where they need it, rather than putting it
somewhere and challenging them to go find it.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> Matt Maier wrote:
>
> > I just want to chime in to disagree with the idea that we should leave
> > useful information out of the Dictionary.
>
> When you put it like that it sounds silly indeed.  Fortunately I wasn't
> advocating omitting useful information, just suggesting we may want to
> maintain an awareness for the scope of doc options at our disposal, and be
> mindful about which details go where.
>
> If you were advocating silliness we might put the User Guide, the Lessons,
> and every LiveCode blog into the Dictionary.  But I know you're not.
>
> We want useful information, where it's most useful.
>
>
> > There's no such thing as a document that's too big when we have
> > networks and search.
>
> That's precisely why I advocate maintaining the Dictionary as an essential
> reference (as in "essence"); it should be easy to link to relevant
> tutorials and guides for more complete discussion when desired.
>
>
> > If it takes a while to explain, then it takes a while to explain.
>
> One of the products I work in is a medial reference for pediatric
> emergency specialists.  Much of its info is in the Physician's Desk
> Reference and a large number of current research papers, but what
> distinguishes our product is that it has LESS information than other
> available sources.
>
> "What's that?  Less?"
>
> Yes.  The PDR is too big to read.  Every doctor has it; few open it. And
> the wealth of information at PubMed is too vast to sift through when you
> have an ER case load stacked up.
>
> So our team is comprised of ER specialists from around the world who
> gather the best information on modern practice available, and work
> diligently to distill it to its most valuable essence useful in a clinical
> setting.
>
> The LiveCode Dictionary need not be quite as sparse; no one's dying on an
> ER table waiting for us to find the parameters to "import snapshot" (and
> God help them if they were <g>).
>
> But there are different forms of docs because each serves a different
> purpose.
>
>
> > If there are a lot of caveats, then there are a lot of caveats.
> > That sounds like a good reason to simplify the application, not
> > a good reason to keep secrets.
>
> Simplifying the app is indeed the first goal.  Mark Waddingham has already
> slated behavior resolution for cleanup, so it will become simpler at some
> point in the future.
>
> But in the here and now, rest assured there's no conspiracy to keep
> anything secret.
>
> The question on the table is: what is most appropriate in the Dictionary,
> and what is most appropriate for another resource?
>
> The Dictionary is not a User Guide, nor a tutorial.  It's a reference for
> understanding what an API token expects, and what will be returned.
>
> There are many caveats throughout the Dictionary, and arguably there
> should be more.
>
> But I would caution against turning it into the most comprehensive
> collection of all possible things one might mistakenly do and how to avoid
> them.  Each page could be 1MB or more with just mistakes I've made alone. :)
>
> In this specific case, a key part of the original confusion resulted not
> from something missing from the "behavior" entry, but by not consulting the
> "start using" entry.  I've been teaching xTalks for decades, and that's one
> mismatch I'd not previously encountered.  In retrospect it's
> understandable, and I won't completely rule out the possibility that a note
> about "start using" not being relevant to "behavior" may be worth putting
> in.
>
> But so many things aren't relevant to so many others, it seems more
> helpful to guide the user to the things that are.  Rather than talk their
> ear off with entries longer than my posts here about all the possible ways
> things might go wrong, it seems simpler and more respectful of their time
> to just show them the way to do things right and let them enjoy success and
> move on.
>
>
> > What feels like a "hefty tome" to someone with decades of experience
> > feels like a "gold mine" to someone with no experience. A lot of gold
> > is heavy; that's just how it works.
>
> Agreed.  Some of the best reading I've had is with technical specs.
>
> I believe in-depth discussion of collections of related concepts are best
> handled in User Guides.
>
> The Dictionary serves a more specialized role.
>
> Tutorials serve yet another role.
>
> All are important.  And each distinct.
>
> And we have to face an important consideration with all learning materials
> in all fields of human endeavor:  no matter how complete, no matter how
> well written, only part of it will be read, and mistakes will be made.
>
> Learning happens only in a small way from reading.  The greatest depth and
> retention occurs through hands-on practice.  And the nature of practice
> means making mistakes, understanding the nature of the specific mistake
> made, and correcting it.  You can read about a piano all day long, and
> never understand as much about it as an hour at the keyboard.  Similarly, I
> believe interactive media is best learned through interaction.
>
> Not that we shouldn't aim high with the docs.  But it's important to
> remember that the sum of all documentation is only a small part of how
> people learn; that's just how it works. :)
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>