From ethanlish at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 02:24:24 2015 From: ethanlish at gmail.com (Ethan L) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 06:24:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Inter process communication Message-ID: <41A702E801A8E588.06F5998A-CCA1-4387-845F-FC77B93F2E24@mail.outlook.com> Greetings? Has anyone done any work on inter process communications between two livecode instances.? Specifically, I would like to be able to have a client instance (eg iPhone LC app) make native LC commands calls to a remote instance (eg UNIX LC server) while masking / embedding all of the plumbing (eg pipe establishment, authentication, session encryption, etc).? This idealized two tier architecture would seperate the solution (application) developer logic from the administrative logic. Hopefully isolating the configuration details outside of the application into a configuration manifest / file which could then be runtime manipulated / selected based upon conditions at that time.? Yes, one could accomplish this through a combination of LC, JSON, SQL, etc. I am hoping to achieve an end to end LC solution.? One could then easily leverage server based resources in a n-tier distributed compute architecture while maintaining the benefits a high level language to deliver a flexible elegant solution? Thanks in advanceEthan ethan at lish.net 240.876.1389 From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Thu Oct 1 03:51:55 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: gjpqy cut off while typing In-Reply-To: <36B18256-793D-497D-8291-B34F351E18D0@livecode.org> References: <3B2CAC5E-F99D-4A37-930A-92DEDCF57E59@mac.com> <1443651560847-4696795.post@n4.nabble.com> <36B18256-793D-497D-8291-B34F351E18D0@livecode.org> Message-ID: <1443685915339-4696799.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Paul, I like your idea to use textshift for screenrefresh, no fiddling with selectedChunk etc. Just one little change to your code in case textshift has not been set before. Then textShift would be empty. Adding 0 to it will not change previous text shift and if textShift has not been set it will not throw an error. And a textShift of 0 does not accumulate "textShifts" in styledText/htmlText. -------------------------------------------------- on textChanged set the textShift of last char of me to the textShift of last char of me +0 end textChanged -------------------------------------------------- Kind regards Bernd Paul Hibbert-4 wrote > I wondered if the textShift would help and found this works too; > > on textChanged > set the textShift of last char of me to the textShift of last char of > me > end textChanged -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/gjpqy-cut-off-while-typing-tp4696789p4696799.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bernd.gottwald at outrange.com Thu Oct 1 06:00:22 2015 From: bernd.gottwald at outrange.com (bernd.gottwald at outrange.com) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:00:22 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_use=2Dlivecode_Digest,_Vol_145,_Issue_1?= Message-ID: <20151001100022.28E6933E2A46@divico3.ch-meta.net> Bis zum 12.10.2015 bin ich nicht verf?gbar. Ich werde meine Emails nicht lesen. In dringenden F?llen erreichen Sie mich ?ber mein Mobiltelefon. I will be out of office until 12.10.2015. I won't read me emails. In urgent matter please call me on my mobile. From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Thu Oct 1 05:54:24 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 02:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: gjpqy cut off while typing In-Reply-To: <1443685915339-4696799.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <3B2CAC5E-F99D-4A37-930A-92DEDCF57E59@mac.com> <1443651560847-4696795.post@n4.nabble.com> <36B18256-793D-497D-8291-B34F351E18D0@livecode.org> <1443685915339-4696799.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1443693264075-4696801.post@n4.nabble.com> One curious observation regarding descents with large textSizes Regardless of workaround or not: in LC 7.1 when tabbing out of the field the first 3 letters get their descents "cut off". However if you click outside of the field to take focus from it everything looks fine. This affects textSizes of 60, textsize 48 is ok with regards to tabbing out of the field. (using comic-sans bold) This does not affect LC 6.7.7 rc 4 nor LC 6.1.3. So there are two bugs when rendering large fontsizes with descents The first one affects typing: while typing the descents are not fully rendered (this can be worked around) The second affects only LC 7.1: tabbing out of a field cuts off the descents of the first three letters. (this one I don't know a workaround for) Of note: In LC 8 dp 5 everything works without a hitch, no workaround needed. All descents are rendered when typing and also when tabbing out of the field. Sorry if this almost has the length of a Bug-report. :) I did all my testing on a Mac. Kind regards Bernd BNig wrote > Hi Paul, > > I like your idea to use textshift for screenrefresh, no fiddling with > selectedChunk etc. > > Just one little change to your code in case textshift has not been set > before. Then textShift would be empty. > Adding 0 to it will not change previous text shift and if textShift has > not been set it will not throw an error. > And a textShift of 0 does not accumulate "textShifts" in > styledText/htmlText. > > -------------------------------------------------- > on textChanged > set the textShift of last char of me to the textShift of last char of > me +0 > end textChanged > -------------------------------------------------- > > Kind regards > Bernd > Paul Hibbert-4 wrote >> I wondered if the textShift would help and found this works too; >> >> on textChanged >> set the textShift of last char of me to the textShift of last char of >> me >> end textChanged -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/gjpqy-cut-off-while-typing-tp4696789p4696801.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dvglasgow at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 06:22:03 2015 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:22:03 +0100 Subject: What's everyone working on this month? (September 2015 edition) In-Reply-To: References: <366dfce6f4457a10e7e432b81586ba0d@livecode.com> Message-ID: <24C6EEA8-C841-45EF-99F4-4CCA74E21E74@gmail.com> I am working on v 3.0 of an assessment of paedophile sexual interest for professionals working with sex offenders. I?m sweating a bit because it has to be ready for the Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers conference in Montreal starting week of 11th Oct. Im working on the manual just now, using another LC product, what used to be Blue Mango?s ScreenSteps. Not sure what happened to Blue Mango, but for documenting a product, it?s the bees knees. (ScreenSteps is nothing to do with me, just a happy user.) David Glasgow From sc at sahores-conseil.com Thu Oct 1 06:49:03 2015 From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:49:03 +0200 Subject: Inter process communication In-Reply-To: <41A702E801A8E588.06F5998A-CCA1-4387-845F-FC77B93F2E24@mail.outlook.com> References: <41A702E801A8E588.06F5998A-CCA1-4387-845F-FC77B93F2E24@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: <63220905-FD37-4285-A6C5-A3FD34C7C3DF@sahores-conseil.com> Hello, Works perfectly in a 100% reliable mode for years : - Mobile App : HTTP POST to Apache or OpenLiteSpeed Http Deamon - httpd to Linux LC server in cgi mode - LC server to MySQL/INNODB or PostgreSQL RDBMS* *needed to free-up LC-Server from complex requests best suited by ACID-SQL servers. Note1 : in case of Web dedicated development : not to forget to include Revigniter in the loop. Note2 : to code with optimal confort LC-Server stack?s librairies : - first save them at the web hosting right path; - reopen them from the FTP-client in choosing LC-Desktop IDE as the default editor; - each command-S action will directly saves changes to the remote path. - don?t forget to use an LC script.lc to bind together the httpd to the LC-Server stack lib. Have fun, -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com > Le 1 oct. 2015 ? 08:24, Ethan L a ?crit : > > Greetings > Has anyone done any work on inter process communications between two livecode instances. > Specifically, I would like to be able to have a client instance (eg iPhone LC app) make native LC commands calls to a remote instance (eg UNIX LC server) while masking / embedding all of the plumbing (eg pipe establishment, authentication, session encryption, etc). > This idealized two tier architecture would seperate the solution (application) developer logic from the administrative logic. Hopefully isolating the configuration details outside of the application into a configuration manifest / file which could then be runtime manipulated / selected based upon conditions at that time. > Yes, one could accomplish this through a combination of LC, JSON, SQL, etc. I am hoping to achieve an end to end LC solution. > One could then easily leverage server based resources in a n-tier distributed compute architecture while maintaining the benefits a high level language to deliver a flexible elegant solution > Thanks in advanceEthan > > ethan at lish.net > 240.876.1389 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu Oct 1 07:23:39 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 07:23:39 -0400 Subject: What's everyone working on this month? (September 2015 edition) In-Reply-To: <24C6EEA8-C841-45EF-99F4-4CCA74E21E74@gmail.com> References: <366dfce6f4457a10e7e432b81586ba0d@livecode.com> <24C6EEA8-C841-45EF-99F4-4CCA74E21E74@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:22 AM, David V Glasgow wrote: > > Im working on the manual just now, using another LC product, what used to > be Blue Mango?s ScreenSteps. Not sure what happened to Blue Mango, but for > documenting a product, it?s the bees knees. (ScreenSteps is nothing to do > with me, just a happy user.) > Hi David, ScreenSteps is alive and well. It just grew into a SASS product that companies use for larger support, onboarding, and education projects. http://www.screensteps.com I'm actually working on the next major update to the desktop software component of ScreenSteps. It is used for authoring help articles. I'm writing it in LiveCode 8. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Oct 1 08:10:17 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:10:17 -0400 Subject: What's everyone working on this month? (September 2015 edition) In-Reply-To: <366dfce6f4457a10e7e432b81586ba0d@livecode.com> References: <366dfce6f4457a10e7e432b81586ba0d@livecode.com> Message-ID: All of my real work is creating and managing in-house applications. We are an international company, but my primary focus is improving business efficiency locally, and in some capacity in my region. My latest app provides an interface to gather work orders for 5 sites in my region, and download all required files to produce those orders from a centrally managed server. This eliminates the errors associated with manual processes such as going through the server filesystem and dragging files from thousands of folders. Files were constantly being lost, and folders were lost inside other unrelated folders. Now, the system is clean, efficient, and accurate thanks to LiveCode. No human hands access the server now. Just the app. On Sep 28, 2015 2:09 PM, "Peter TB Brett" wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm really interested to hear about what you're working on at the moment. > The community always seems to have a huge, exciting and varied range of > projects going on, and it's great to hear how people are using LiveCode for > work, for hobbies, for learning or for play! > > > > I'll start: > > 1. I've been working on the HTML5 engine. For the last couple of weeks, > I've been focussed on getting LiveCode Builder (i.e. widgets) working in > HTML5, and it's been an often rather frustrating business, because it's > really hard to debug asm.js code running in the browser! Every time I > think I've nailed the last bug, another one jumps out of the woodwork. > However, I'm feeling hopeful that by the time of the Global Jam next week, > everyone will be able to use widgets in the browser. And after that, > commercial HTML5... > > 2. I've added a new test framework to the repository that lets us write > script-only test stacks and run them automatically for every proposed > change. Now I need to get contributors to write tests! > > > > What have you been working on? > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From irog at mac.com Thu Oct 1 14:32:14 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 11:32:14 -0700 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> I just installed El Capitan and found that the Apple Color picker is screwed up . . . the color samples go away after one use. And yes, so is the ColorSync Utility. I offer my colorPiquer utility in the interim: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1arbh6jlm35u68z/colorPiquer.livecode?dl=0 Control-click ?p? to palletize, and control-click ?e? to edit. Cheers, Roger From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 14:40:00 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 14:40:00 -0400 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> Message-ID: <07DB6109-FC48-4F23-A29B-9AAF4ACCDA51@gmail.com> Are you talking about the square to the left of the eye dropper, and how it?s white if you reopen the color picker? Was it ever different from that? You can drag a color you want to keep around into one of the little squares to the right. Then the color is still there next time. > On Oct 1, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > I just installed El Capitan and found that the Apple Color picker is screwed up . . . the color samples go away after one use. And yes, so is the ColorSync Utility. > > I offer my colorPiquer utility in the interim: > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/1arbh6jlm35u68z/colorPiquer.livecode?dl=0 > > > > Control-click ?p? to palletize, and control-click ?e? to edit. > > > > > Cheers, > > Roger From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Thu Oct 1 14:46:22 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 19:46:22 +0100 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com>, <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> Message-ID: Apple Colour Picker is working fine here... OSX 10.11, LC 7.1 > From: irog at mac.com > Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:32:14 -0700 > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > I just installed El Capitan and found that the Apple Color picker is screwed up . . . the color samples go away after one use. And yes, so is the ColorSync Utility. > > I offer my colorPiquer utility in the interim: > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/1arbh6jlm35u68z/colorPiquer.livecode?dl=0 > > > > Control-click ?p? to palletize, and control-click ?e? to edit. > > > > > Cheers, > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Thu Oct 1 15:01:14 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 12:01:14 -0700 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> Message-ID: <6E705B98-5844-4174-867A-34F09B7BCF8C@mac.com> Thank you Colin and John, I went back to review my situation: The top part of the color picker, the crayons in particular, disappear after one use in LC 6.6.5 OS X 10.11. No problems with LC 6.7.6 nor 7.0.6. But, the Apple ColorSync Utility is out on my rMBP! Is it working for you guys? Roger > On Oct 1, 2015, at 11:46 AM, John Dixon wrote: > > > Apple Colour Picker is working fine here... OSX 10.11, LC 7.1 > > >> From: irog at mac.com >> Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! >> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:32:14 -0700 >> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> I just installed El Capitan and found that the Apple Color picker is screwed up . . . the color samples go away after one use. And yes, so is the ColorSync Utility. >> >> I offer my colorPiquer utility in the interim: >> >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1arbh6jlm35u68z/colorPiquer.livecode?dl=0 >> >> >> >> Control-click ?p? to palletize, and control-click ?e? to edit. >> >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Roger >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Oct 1 15:06:25 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:06:25 -0700 Subject: Livecode V8.0 (dp 5) problem In-Reply-To: <93FA4257-9A35-4DB5-92A7-F27B80FF8025@earthednet.org> References: <93FA4257-9A35-4DB5-92A7-F27B80FF8025@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <65413D67-391E-4A33-B329-87A6DCE0B17A@earthednet.org> I reported this as a bug. Bill > On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:42 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > folks: > I have a simple splash stack that will load another stack when I click on a button. If I click ?Save? to save any changes, the ?saving? dialog comes up and doesn?t go away. I can quite LC normally, but it?s impossible to go on. > > This ?Save? operation works fine with V8.0 dp4. I also have Berndt?s BvG Docu 2 document plugin and it hangs with a ?Please wait ??? window. > > Anybody else see this? Is there something I?m missing? > Bill > > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 15:11:29 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:11:29 -0400 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <6E705B98-5844-4174-867A-34F09B7BCF8C@mac.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> <6E705B98-5844-4174-867A-34F09B7BCF8C@mac.com> Message-ID: <3A2E11AE-9D3B-4355-BEE4-A2394C7A0C68@gmail.com> Don?t know how to use the ColorSync Utility, but it opens ok. The crayons are working fine in LC 7.1. > On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:01 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > Thank you Colin and John, > > I went back to review my situation: The top part of the color picker, the crayons in particular, disappear after one use in LC 6.6.5 OS X 10.11. No problems with LC 6.7.6 nor 7.0.6. > > But, the Apple ColorSync Utility is out on my rMBP! Is it working for you guys? > > Roger > > > > > >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 11:46 AM, John Dixon wrote: >> >> >> Apple Colour Picker is working fine here... OSX 10.11, LC 7.1 >> >> >>> From: irog at mac.com >>> Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! >>> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:32:14 -0700 >>> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> >>> I just installed El Capitan and found that the Apple Color picker is screwed up . . . the color samples go away after one use. And yes, so is the ColorSync Utility. >>> >>> I offer my colorPiquer utility in the interim: >>> >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1arbh6jlm35u68z/colorPiquer.livecode?dl=0 >>> >>> >>> >>> Control-click ?p? to palletize, and control-click ?e? to edit. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Roger >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Thu Oct 1 15:20:48 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 12:20:48 -0700 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <3A2E11AE-9D3B-4355-BEE4-A2394C7A0C68@gmail.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> <6E705B98-5844-4174-867A-34F09B7BCF8C@mac.com> <3A2E11AE-9D3B-4355-BEE4-A2394C7A0C68@gmail.com> Message-ID: <320DB6CA-3317-4816-9355-A44FD0CC7EA3@mac.com> Yes, crayons work fine in my LC 7.1 as well. The Apple ColorSync Utility is available in the Utilities Folder. I get a Profile First Aid pane when I try to use it. However, repairs do not work because files are locked. Thanks! > On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > > Don?t know how to use the ColorSync Utility, but it opens ok. The crayons are working fine in LC 7.1. From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 15:30:57 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:30:57 -0400 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <320DB6CA-3317-4816-9355-A44FD0CC7EA3@mac.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> <6E705B98-5844-4174-867A-34F09B7BCF8C@mac.com> <3A2E11AE-9D3B-4355-BEE4-A2394C7A0C68@gmail.com> <320DB6CA-3317-4816-9355-A44FD0CC7EA3@mac.com> Message-ID: <17B34745-CCB0-46AA-BA83-AD01C30AAE6F@gmail.com> Getting info and setting read & write access let them be repaired. > On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > Yes, crayons work fine in my LC 7.1 as well. > > The Apple ColorSync Utility is available in the Utilities Folder. I get a Profile First Aid pane when I try to use it. However, repairs do not work because files are locked. > > > > Thanks! > > > >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: >> >> Don?t know how to use the ColorSync Utility, but it opens ok. The crayons are working fine in LC 7.1. > From irog at mac.com Thu Oct 1 16:50:24 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:50:24 -0700 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <17B34745-CCB0-46AA-BA83-AD01C30AAE6F@gmail.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> <6E705B98-5844-4174-867A-34F09B7BCF8C@mac.com> <3A2E11AE-9D3B-4355-BEE4-A2394C7A0C68@gmail.com> <320DB6CA-3317-4816-9355-A44FD0CC7EA3@mac.com> <17B34745-CCB0-46AA-BA83-AD01C30AAE6F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you , Colin! > On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:30 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > > Getting info and setting read & write access let them be repaired. > > >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Roger Guay wrote: >> >> Yes, crayons work fine in my LC 7.1 as well. >> >> The Apple ColorSync Utility is available in the Utilities Folder. I get a Profile First Aid pane when I try to use it. However, repairs do not work because files are locked. >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: >>> >>> Don?t know how to use the ColorSync Utility, but it opens ok. The crayons are working fine in LC 7.1. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Oct 1 22:28:20 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 02:28:20 +0000 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> Message-ID: <58C18661-8FCB-4842-94B6-CDFB709E7CD3@hindu.org> Roger: even on Yosemite, the apple color wheel invoked by LC does not give you the correct RGB value when you use it?s eye dropper? it appears to work, but the hue is 2-3 ?degrees" down on the gray scale from the actual color? this is not LC?s fault (at least I don?t think so?) : tested in photoshop, illustrator, inDesign and LC? the color that is picked up is *not* the precise color that it was on? I used Eric Chatonet?s color picker and that eyedropper gives the *real* RGB value of the color it picks up. So, even if it worked in El Capitan? I wouldn?t trust it. WYSINWYG What You See is Not What You Get. I?m going try your piquer? thanks for sharing. BR Roger wrote: >I just installed El Capitan and found that the Apple Color picker is screwed up . . . the color samples go away after one use. And yes, so is the ColorSync Utility. From dvglasgow at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 03:16:52 2015 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:16:52 +0100 Subject: What's everyone working on this month? (September 2015 edition) In-Reply-To: References: <366dfce6f4457a10e7e432b81586ba0d@livecode.com> <24C6EEA8-C841-45EF-99F4-4CCA74E21E74@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52659AFA-216B-4D2B-A7F9-9FB9BEE51563@gmail.com> Well, Trevor, since I have your attention, 1/ My old eyes now struggle with the fixed on-screen display size, 2/ Distinguishing between font styles is similarly difficult 3/ I would like a numbered graphic to insert in the text to match the number blobs on the screenshot. Currently I use a numbered list, but the text doesn?t always want to follow a list format. The alternative is to keep typing ?marked ?n? above?, which becomes a bit wearing. Pleased you?ve managed to get into software as a service to big business, but even more pleased the tool still works for the solo developer. Cheers, David G > On 1 Oct 2015, at 12:23 pm, Trevor DeVore wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:22 AM, David V Glasgow wrote: > >> >> Im working on the manual just now, using another LC product, what used to >> be Blue Mango?s ScreenSteps. Not sure what happened to Blue Mango, but for >> documenting a product, it?s the bees knees. (ScreenSteps is nothing to do >> with me, just a happy user.) >> > > Hi David, > > ScreenSteps is alive and well. It just grew into a SASS product that > companies use for larger support, onboarding, and education projects. > > http://www.screensteps.com > > I'm actually working on the next major update to the desktop software > component of ScreenSteps. It is used for authoring help articles. I'm > writing it in LiveCode 8. > > -- > Trevor DeVore > ScreenSteps > www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bernd.gottwald at outrange.com Fri Oct 2 06:00:13 2015 From: bernd.gottwald at outrange.com (bernd.gottwald at outrange.com) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:00:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_use=2Dlivecode_Digest,_Vol_145,_Issue_2?= Message-ID: <20151002100013.479D233E2A58@divico3.ch-meta.net> Bis zum 12.10.2015 bin ich nicht verf?gbar. Ich werde meine Emails nicht lesen. In dringenden F?llen erreichen Sie mich ?ber mein Mobiltelefon. I will be out of office until 12.10.2015. I won't read me emails. In urgent matter please call me on my mobile. From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Fri Oct 2 06:22:36 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:22:36 +0100 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 145, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <20151002100013.479D233E2A58@divico3.ch-meta.net> References: <20151002100013.479D233E2A58@divico3.ch-meta.net> Message-ID: I will be so 'happy' when you do eventually get back into your office so I don't receive this message 'every day ' !!! > From: bernd.gottwald at outrange.com > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: use-livecode Digest, Vol 145, Issue 2 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:00:13 +0200 > > Bis zum 12.10.2015 bin ich nicht verf?gbar. Ich werde meine Emails nicht lesen. In dringenden F?llen erreichen Sie mich ?ber mein Mobiltelefon. > > I will be out of office until 12.10.2015. I won't read me emails. In urgent matter please call me on my mobile. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Oct 2 11:23:32 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 08:23:32 -0700 Subject: Apple Color Picker is Screwed Up in El Capitan!! In-Reply-To: <58C18661-8FCB-4842-94B6-CDFB709E7CD3@hindu.org> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> <58C18661-8FCB-4842-94B6-CDFB709E7CD3@hindu.org> Message-ID: <4C91A6C4-FCE8-492F-B29D-E490A08F4409@mac.com> I built colorPiquer because of these problems I encountered in Yosemite, with lots of help from Eric's work and others. Thanks, Roger > On Oct 1, 2015, at 7:28 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > Roger: even on Yosemite, the apple color wheel invoked by LC does not give you the correct RGB value when you use it?s eye dropper? it appears to work, but the hue is 2-3 ?degrees" down on the gray scale from the actual color? this is not LC?s fault (at least I don?t think so?) : tested in photoshop, illustrator, inDesign and LC? the color that is picked up is *not* the precise color that it was on? From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 12:09:23 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:09:23 -0400 Subject: What's everyone working on this month? (September 2015 edition) In-Reply-To: <52659AFA-216B-4D2B-A7F9-9FB9BEE51563@gmail.com> References: <366dfce6f4457a10e7e432b81586ba0d@livecode.com> <24C6EEA8-C841-45EF-99F4-4CCA74E21E74@gmail.com> <52659AFA-216B-4D2B-A7F9-9FB9BEE51563@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 2, 2015, at 3:16 AM, David V Glasgow wrote: > 3/ I would like a numbered graphic to insert in the text to match the number blobs on the screenshot. Currently I use a numbered list, but the text doesn?t always want to follow a list format. The alternative is to keep typing ?marked ?n? above?, which becomes a bit wearing. While you're waiting for a more definitive fix, use this as a shortcut in your field script: on enterinfield put word 4 of the selectedchunk into selChar put the number of words of char 1 to selChar of me into wdNbr if word wdNbr of me <> "n" then pass enterinfield put "marked '' above" into word wdNbr of me select after char selChar+7 of me end enterinfield Then to insert the phrase you want, type "n" as a separate word and hit the enterkey, then type the number you want to insert between the single quotes. Saves typing. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 2 12:26:58 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:26:58 +0000 Subject: Setting Props of Multiple objects with behavior? In-Reply-To: <0C1413EC-7F2D-44AF-B3AE-AD690E15CC0C@hindu.org> References: <0C1413EC-7F2D-44AF-B3AE-AD690E15CC0C@hindu.org> Message-ID: If all the buttons were in a group you could get and set "the of the parent of me". Bob S > On Sep 24, 2015, at 23:46 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > When in the design process? I frequently want to sync all the buttons on the UI (or fields) to a new size, color, look and feel etc. Is there a way to do this with behaviors, such that the parent button?s props are automatically passed to all buttons on the UI? > > How are you doing this, perhaps there is a better way? like have a tool that picks all the props of one button except for the name, label, tool tip and script and then sets all the buttons on the card to those remaining props.. > > I suspect someone has done this before > > BR > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 2 12:38:40 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:38:40 +0000 Subject: list etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <56096313.7040001@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: Another issue is that some people use the digest while others do not. This seems to create a new thread named the same thing when replying from the digest. So far as I have been able to ascertain, nothing can be done about this other than rounding up all the digest users and flogging them with wet noodles. Then the problem becomes, some might like it. ;-) After 60 years on this planet I have come to see that many (if not most) people do not do things the way they do because it "makes sense" or is the most efficient or useful way to do it. They do things "their way" simply because it IS "their way." That is why no one will ever seriously make any progress changing the world, either in small ways or big ones. Bob S > On Sep 29, 2015, at 03:13 , Kay C Lan wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Warren Samples > wrote: > >> >> An example would be the thread with the subject "Why can't LC do what >> PencilCase does?" Under that thread are 11 completely unrelated message >> threads, each having headers that indicate each new topic was initiated as >> a response to a previous but unrelated message within that thread. >> >> What are you using to view the List? I use Gmail and I have no such > problem, every single post in the PencilCase thread has exactly the same > subject so Gmail can automatically rethread based on Subject. Maybe there > is a Preference within your email client to sort by Subject? > > I'll admit I'm guilty of posting a new Topic by clicking Reply and changing > the Subject, but this seems to me to be far easier as you normally want to > quote a portion of a post but acknowledge that it is a tangent topic. So as > it works perfectly for me, unless there is an avalanche of other's who are > suffering the same as you, I'm not sure I'll remember to compose a brand > new message just to help your email client. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 2 12:47:49 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:47:49 +0000 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: EFF iOS development then and EFF Apple to the lowest parts of heck. This might be the thing that pushes me over the edge and makes me switch to (ick) ANDROID! AAAARRRGGGHHHH! Seriously, we were told the world would run out of IP addresses 10 years ago. It hasn't. We were told the world would run out of water 25 years ago. It hasn't. We were told the world would run out of food... you get the idea. we need to rebel against these disaster barons and tell then where to get off. Bob S > On Sep 29, 2015, at 05:43 , Malte Brill wrote: > > Well, I just stumbled upon this: > > https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a > > this might get serious even earlier than I thought? > > All the best, > > Malte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lists at mangomultimedia.com Fri Oct 2 12:53:37 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:53:37 -0400 Subject: What's everyone working on this month? (September 2015 edition) In-Reply-To: <52659AFA-216B-4D2B-A7F9-9FB9BEE51563@gmail.com> References: <366dfce6f4457a10e7e432b81586ba0d@livecode.com> <24C6EEA8-C841-45EF-99F4-4CCA74E21E74@gmail.com> <52659AFA-216B-4D2B-A7F9-9FB9BEE51563@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 3:16 AM, David V Glasgow wrote: > Well, Trevor, since I have your attention, > David, You can always get my attention (and others at the company) by emailing support at screensteps.com :-) > Pleased you?ve managed to get into software as a service to big business, > but even more pleased the tool still works for the solo developer. > Well, I don't know that ScreenSteps is still a *great* tool for the solo developer to create manuals. I think you are using version 2, which was the last version where a cloud backend was optional. We stopped developing that version back in 2013. In order to develop the software in a way that solves the types of problems we wanted to solve, we needed to engage larger markets. The solo developer who will write documentation isn't a huge one. ScreenSteps now stores everything in the cloud so interacting with your manuals isn't going to be as fast as ScreenStep 2 was. We do still have Clarify (which is single user and stores documents locally) but it isn't made to create entire manuals like ScreenSteps, just single documents. If you have any further comments you can email me directly or move it off to another thread. I don't want to hijack Peter's thread. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From sebastien.nouat at livecode.com Fri Oct 2 12:59:27 2015 From: sebastien.nouat at livecode.com (Sebastien Nouat) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:59:27 +0100 Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 Message-ID: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 6. Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your stacks before testing them. You can find the list of bug fixes in the menu Help > Release Notes, or from the download page referenced below. *Getting the release* You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ This release is the release we expect you to use for the LiveCode Global Jam held next Monday and Tuesday (5th and 6th of October 2015). LiveCode 8 is in an early stage of development so we?d love to hear any feedback you have on it. There are a number of features that we?d like to implement but aren?t ready yet and the existing features are subject to change during development - we can?t guarantee that extensions written in DP1 will continue to work in later versions. Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 The LiveCode Team From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 2 13:39:27 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:39:27 +0000 Subject: scheduling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8515A313-0039-4303-A218-BAD6692B93A5@iotecdigital.com> I did some work in this regard in an app I called Conference Scheduler Lite. The big thing with date and time calculations is understanding that an event scheduled for 08:00 - 10:00 does NOT conflict with one from 10:00 to 12:00. Also, someone staying in a room from the first to the third does NOT conflict with someone staying from the 3rd to the 5th. In other words, times and dates can touch without overlapping. Special case has to be used for this in any SQL queries. I also recently wrote a time calc function that can give you the difference between two times so that 12:00 to 13:00 produces 1:00. It's not a trivial thing to do. I ended up using the approach of converting values to seconds, doing the math then converting it back to hours:minutes:seconds again. Bob S > On Sep 30, 2015, at 11:35 , Mike Kerner wrote: > > I've been messing around with scheduling events in LC, and have run into a > variety of things that make life harder. Does anybody have a CRON/event > scheduling library for LC before I write the other 60% of one? > > Well, I'm probably simplifying the task - the other 85% of one? > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Oct 2 13:59:23 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:59:23 -0700 Subject: Differences between LC Versions In-Reply-To: <4C91A6C4-FCE8-492F-B29D-E490A08F4409@mac.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> <58C18661-8FCB-4842-94B6-CDFB709E7CD3@hindu.org> <4C91A6C4-FCE8-492F-B29D-E490A08F4409@mac.com> Message-ID: <3E402686-2C60-4891-81A5-FFC718987C9A@mac.com> Can someone tell me what the basic differences are between LC 6.6.x and LC 6.7.x? And, an easy way to find this sort thing in the future? Thanks, Roger From colinholgate at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 14:06:56 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:06:56 -0400 Subject: Differences between LC Versions In-Reply-To: <3E402686-2C60-4891-81A5-FFC718987C9A@mac.com> References: <4c0f6cf6d7cb533e8bdc2406326cb525.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <22F40F04-9329-46F9-935A-20E8373B8F0B@mac.com> <58C18661-8FCB-4842-94B6-CDFB709E7CD3@hindu.org> <4C91A6C4-FCE8-492F-B29D-E490A08F4409@mac.com> <3E402686-2C60-4891-81A5-FFC718987C9A@mac.com> Message-ID: The downloads page: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ has a column for release notes. You can go back in time quite a way, and read the 6.7 notes to see what had been fixed. It?s a long list. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 2 14:10:26 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:10:26 -0700 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <560EC892.6010200@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > Seriously, we were told the world would run out of IP addresses 10 > years ago. It hasn't. True. At the moment there are still some places (most in Africa) with available IPv4 addresses, while North America and others have completely depleted available supply: APNIC, which allocates addresses in Asia-Pacific, more or less ran out of available IPv4 addresses in 2011; RIPE, which oversees Europe, the Middle East and parts of Central Asia, was running on fumes by 2012; and LACNIC, which manages Latin America and the Caribbean, hit rock bottom in 2014. All that's left is AFRINIC, which oversees Africa, and is expected to run out of IPv4 addresses in 2019. Other regions with fewer devices per capita have been able to stave off the inevitable a little while longer through the same sorts of efforts that allowed N. America to stretch its pool as long as it has. But a finite supply is a finite supply. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 2 14:11:56 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:11:56 -0700 Subject: Differences between LC Versions In-Reply-To: <3E402686-2C60-4891-81A5-FFC718987C9A@mac.com> References: <3E402686-2C60-4891-81A5-FFC718987C9A@mac.com> Message-ID: <560EC8EC.3050005@fourthworld.com> Roger Guay wrote: > Can someone tell me what the basic differences are between LC 6.6.x > and LC 6.7.x? And, an easy way to find this sort thing in the future? See the Release Notes accompanying the newer version. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Fri Oct 2 14:21:55 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 14:21:55 -0400 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <560EC892.6010200@fourthworld.com> References: <560EC892.6010200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <560ECB43.9000607@researchware.com> On 10/2/2015 2:10 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > Seriously, we were told the world would run out of IP addresses 10 > > years ago. It hasn't. > > True. At the moment there are still some places (most in Africa) with > available IPv4 addresses, while North America and others have > completely depleted available supply: > > APNIC, which allocates addresses in Asia-Pacific, more or > less ran out of available IPv4 addresses in 2011; RIPE, > which oversees Europe, the Middle East and parts of Central > Asia, was running on fumes by 2012; and LACNIC, which > manages Latin America and the Caribbean, hit rock bottom > in 2014. All that's left is AFRINIC, which oversees Africa, > and is expected to run out of IPv4 addresses in 2019. > > > Other regions with fewer devices per capita have been able to stave > off the inevitable a little while longer through the same sorts of > efforts that allowed N. America to stretch its pool as long as it has. > > But a finite supply is a finite supply. > To add to this discussion: It only SEEMs like there are plenty of IPv4 addresses available because of NAT (Network Address Translation). Most people get their IP address behind some sort of router doing NAT to the internet - you see an address like 192.168.#.# but your service provider is - somewhere in their network - running IPv6 or will be. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Oct 2 14:57:55 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:57:55 -0400 Subject: LC Memory Leak Message-ID: <00d901d0fd44$3f726750$be5735f0$@net> I think there is a serious memory leak using SQLite. LC 6.7.7 Windows XP SP3 SQLite DB 4Mb, 1,900 records, 80 columns Stack?1 Card with several buttons with one field for status updates. I am running an update(one of the buttons) from a tab delimited file of the entire 1,900 records. I read the file (1Mb) into a variable and loop though all the records checking to see if an update to the DB is needed and update the DB as needed(2 records added and 219 records updated in this example). Pretty simple . This took over 90 minutes to complete? Check out the memory usage: Open LC?53mb Jumps to 400mb for an instant and does 170,00 page faults and drops back to 53Mb. Run the update? Memory usage keeps going up and up to 496mb. Close the DB ? Memory usage drops back to 153Mb. What?s using the 100mb at this point? I know I have some data in variables that is using memory but certainly not 100mb worth. Anybody else seeing this? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 Cell: 518-796-9332 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 2 15:10:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:10:53 -0700 Subject: LC Memory Leak In-Reply-To: <00d901d0fd44$3f726750$be5735f0$@net> References: <00d901d0fd44$3f726750$be5735f0$@net> Message-ID: <560ED6BD.8070301@fourthworld.com> We're late into the RC cycle, so please submit a reproducible to the bug queue recipe ASAP. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Oct 2 15:21:43 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:21:43 -0700 Subject: LC Memory Leak In-Reply-To: <560ED6BD.8070301@fourthworld.com> References: <00d901d0fd44$3f726750$be5735f0$@net> <560ED6BD.8070301@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I may have found a related problem. With LC8 dp5, Berndt?s BvG Docu 2 plug-in fails when trying to create the sql lite library of docs. If you just load the plug-in stack, it will try to create the sql db and will fail. When that happens, I think it is also corrupting the engine in some way because other stacks won?t save correctly. Bill > On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:10 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > We're late into the RC cycle, so please submit a reproducible to the bug queue recipe ASAP. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Oct 2 15:21:55 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:21:55 +0200 Subject: Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! Message-ID: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> Hi all, I'll be doing an "Ask Me Anything" session on reddit during the global jam. It'll be on Monday 5th October from 15:00 to 22:00 BST (or your regional equivalent), and you'll be able to find the discussion thread in the LiveCode subreddit on Monday afternoon. I'll be super happy to (attempt to) answer all of your gnarly technical questions about LiveCode Builder, how it works, what you can do with it, what we want you to be able to do with it, and so on. I might answer some other questions as well depending on how busy things get (and on my knowledge level)! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Oct 2 17:20:27 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:20:27 -0700 Subject: LC Memory Leak In-Reply-To: References: <00d901d0fd44$3f726750$be5735f0$@net> <560ED6BD.8070301@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: The same behavior occurs in dp6 as well. Bill > On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:21 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > I may have found a related problem. With LC8 dp5, Berndt?s BvG Docu 2 plug-in fails when trying to create the sql lite library of docs. If you just load the plug-in stack, it will try to create the sql db and will fail. When that happens, I think it is also corrupting the engine in some way because other stacks won?t save correctly. > Bill > >> On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:10 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> We're late into the RC cycle, so please submit a reproducible to the bug queue recipe ASAP. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Oct 2 17:44:04 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 14:44:04 -0700 Subject: Differences between LC Versions In-Reply-To: <560EC8EC.3050005@fourthworld.com> References: <3E402686-2C60-4891-81A5-FFC718987C9A@mac.com> <560EC8EC.3050005@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <92D88383-B155-4146-8DC2-35E4D7149102@mac.com> Thanks Colin and Richard. I knew that, but I was hoping for an easier way, like ?what?s new in ?.?. I?m wondering if and why I should continue using 6.6.x instead of going to 6.7.x. BTW, the reason I don?t yet use 7.x.x is performance. I think 7.x.x is getting better but there still is much better performance in 6.6.5. Roger > On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:11 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > Can someone tell me what the basic differences are between LC 6.6.x > > and LC 6.7.x? And, an easy way to find this sort thing in the future? > > See the Release Notes accompanying the newer version. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 2 18:03:15 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:03:15 -0700 Subject: Differences between LC Versions In-Reply-To: <92D88383-B155-4146-8DC2-35E4D7149102@mac.com> References: <92D88383-B155-4146-8DC2-35E4D7149102@mac.com> Message-ID: <560EFF23.5000906@fourthworld.com> Roger Guay wrote: > Thanks Colin and Richard. I knew that, but I was hoping for an easier > way, like ?what?s new in ?.?. Every Release Notes document includes a section called "Engine Changes" and another for "IDE Changes", each details specific new features and bug fixes in summary form, often with links to take you directly to the corresponding Quality Control database record where you can learn more. It's a useful summary document, well worth reading. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Oct 2 17:54:44 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> I downloaded DP6 to try my application on it for Global Jam I tried it on My MacBook Pro retina. In Mac OS X 10.11 I opened my application to see if it would run. It opened but when I clicked on an object with the pointer tool the object would receive a mouseUp. Sometimes I would click on an object with the browse tool and the object would be selected. I could not get a popup menu to appear when clicking with the pointer tool and the control key down so can't open the script editor for that project. I could not open the script editor for a button with I pressed option and command key and clicked on the button with the browse tool. I tried again with a simple stack with one button and saw the same thing. I tried both the indy and community versions. I tried this Mac OS X 10.8.5 and got the same results. I also got the same results with DP5. I tried DP2 and that did not happen. I tried this on a Mac Mini and I don't see this at all. Is anyone else seeing this? Any idea as to why this would happen? Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-8-0-0-DP-6-tp4696826p4696840.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Oct 2 17:55:36 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1443822936027-4696841.post@n4.nabble.com> Oh Mac Mini is running Yosemite if that makes a difference. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-8-0-0-DP-6-tp4696826p4696841.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 2 18:14:29 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:14:29 +0000 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <560ECB43.9000607@researchware.com> References: <560EC892.6010200@fourthworld.com> <560ECB43.9000607@researchware.com> Message-ID: <7A64122D-1E44-4A71-ADB0-FD0533AF2DAE@iotecdigital.com> Almost everything these days is running IPV6. I don't have a problem with that. I have a BIG problem with Apple excluding IPV4 from their devices. Behind my gateway I want to use what I want to use. Apple is basically saying, "No, you can't." I don't like a company taking something away from a product I already own. Now if they were to say that in the future any new products will only support IPV6, that would suck, but it would be a different matter. You will say, "Well then don't upgrade to iOS 9!" My response is, I purchased my iPhone with the understanding that included in that deal would be all the updates needed to make it more stable and secure. I'm being told that deal is off unless I conform to how Apple thinks the IT world should go. Like I said before, EFF em. Bob S On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:21 , Paul Dupuis > wrote: To add to this discussion: It only SEEMs like there are plenty of IPv4 addresses available because of NAT (Network Address Translation). Most people get their IP address behind some sort of router doing NAT to the internet - you see an address like 192.168.#.# but your service provider is - somewhere in their network - running IPv6 or will be. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 18:53:03 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 06:53:03 +0800 Subject: Differences between LC Versions In-Reply-To: <92D88383-B155-4146-8DC2-35E4D7149102@mac.com> References: <3E402686-2C60-4891-81A5-FFC718987C9A@mac.com> <560EC8EC.3050005@fourthworld.com> <92D88383-B155-4146-8DC2-35E4D7149102@mac.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 5:44 AM, Roger Guay wrote: > I?m wondering if and why I should continue using 6.6.x instead of going to > 6.7.x. > > One reason would be if you are supporting old OS X installs. I think 6.6.5 is the last one to run on Leopard (10.5.8) and PPC. The Release Notes would confirm that. I have 6.6.5 on some old G4 Macmini's. From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 20:09:54 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:09:54 -0700 Subject: list etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <56096313.7040001@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Another issue is that some people use the digest while others do not. This > seems to create a new thread named the same thing when replying from the > digest. So far as I have been able to ascertain, nothing can be done about > this other than rounding up all the digest users and flogging them with wet > noodles. Then the problem becomes, some might like it. ;-) > My solution, dating back several years, is to simply ignore any post which replies directly to a digest. I found that they were uniformly content free. Some sought help, but if it's too much trouble for them to send a recognizable question, it's too much trouble for me to sort through dozens of digests to see if there might be a real one. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Oct 2 20:52:49 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:52:49 -0700 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <7A64122D-1E44-4A71-ADB0-FD0533AF2DAE@iotecdigital.com> References: <560EC892.6010200@fourthworld.com> <560ECB43.9000607@researchware.com> <7A64122D-1E44-4A71-ADB0-FD0533AF2DAE@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <560F26E1.7050708@ahsoftware.net> On 10/02/2015 03:14 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Almost everything these days is running IPV6. Heh. Now *that* is wishful thinking. I assume it's a typo and you meant ipv4. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From irog at mac.com Fri Oct 2 21:19:00 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 18:19:00 -0700 Subject: Differences between LC Versions In-Reply-To: References: <3E402686-2C60-4891-81A5-FFC718987C9A@mac.com> <560EC8EC.3050005@fourthworld.com> <92D88383-B155-4146-8DC2-35E4D7149102@mac.com> Message-ID: Good point . . . thanks! > On Oct 2, 2015, at 3:53 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 5:44 AM, Roger Guay wrote: > >> I?m wondering if and why I should continue using 6.6.x instead of going to >> 6.7.x. >> >> One reason would be if you are supporting old OS X installs. I think 6.6.5 > is the last one to run on Leopard (10.5.8) and PPC. The Release Notes would > confirm that. I have 6.6.5 on some old G4 Macmini's. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Oct 2 22:27:17 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:27:17 -0400 Subject: scheduling In-Reply-To: <8515A313-0039-4303-A218-BAD6692B93A5@iotecdigital.com> References: <8515A313-0039-4303-A218-BAD6692B93A5@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: oh, wow. Sorry, Bob, that wasn't what I meant. I meant scheduling messages like as in pendingMessages, like a CRON subsystem On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I did some work in this regard in an app I called Conference Scheduler > Lite. The big thing with date and time calculations is understanding that > an event scheduled for 08:00 - 10:00 does NOT conflict with one from 10:00 > to 12:00. Also, someone staying in a room from the first to the third does > NOT conflict with someone staying from the 3rd to the 5th. In other words, > times and dates can touch without overlapping. Special case has to be used > for this in any SQL queries. > > I also recently wrote a time calc function that can give you the > difference between two times so that 12:00 to 13:00 produces 1:00. It's > not a trivial thing to do. I ended up using the approach of converting > values to seconds, doing the math then converting it back to > hours:minutes:seconds again. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 30, 2015, at 11:35 , Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > I've been messing around with scheduling events in LC, and have run into > a > > variety of things that make life harder. Does anybody have a CRON/event > > scheduling library for LC before I write the other 60% of one? > > > > Well, I'm probably simplifying the task - the other 85% of one? > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 22:40:00 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 20:40:00 -0600 Subject: scheduling In-Reply-To: References: <8515A313-0039-4303-A218-BAD6692B93A5@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Probably the easiest way would be to have a send loop running, and see if any jobs (whatever you want to call it) are due yet. If you keep the jobs sorted you can check the next one in queue, and if its not time for it to fire yet, none of them are, so loop. If it IS time, keep checking the list until you hit a job that isn't due yet. then loop again. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > oh, wow. Sorry, Bob, that wasn't what I meant. I meant scheduling > messages like as in pendingMessages, like a CRON subsystem > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > > > I did some work in this regard in an app I called Conference Scheduler > > Lite. The big thing with date and time calculations is understanding that > > an event scheduled for 08:00 - 10:00 does NOT conflict with one from > 10:00 > > to 12:00. Also, someone staying in a room from the first to the third > does > > NOT conflict with someone staying from the 3rd to the 5th. In other > words, > > times and dates can touch without overlapping. Special case has to be > used > > for this in any SQL queries. > > > > I also recently wrote a time calc function that can give you the > > difference between two times so that 12:00 to 13:00 produces 1:00. It's > > not a trivial thing to do. I ended up using the approach of converting > > values to seconds, doing the math then converting it back to > > hours:minutes:seconds again. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > > On Sep 30, 2015, at 11:35 , Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > > > > I've been messing around with scheduling events in LC, and have run > into > > a > > > variety of things that make life harder. Does anybody have a > CRON/event > > > scheduling library for LC before I write the other 60% of one? > > > > > > Well, I'm probably simplifying the task - the other 85% of one? > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at livecode.org Sat Oct 3 00:34:11 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 21:34:11 -0700 Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I?m seeing similar and worse results on a MacBook Pro Retina with El Capitan (OS X 10.11). Just downloaded DP6 Community tonight and already it?s crashed several times. I can?t close a script. When I try to compile a script the indicator button stays yellow, then when I try to close the script I just get the 'Save Changes? dialogue, if I?m successful in dismissing this dialogue, LC crashes. - Bug reported. I?ve also just filed another bug report about the inspector crashing when inspecting widgets. I don?t feel too inspired to go much further, it just feels like a waste of my time even though I really do want to see LC8 grow into something more useful. I don?t see how the bug jam can progress much with this version, at least not on OS X 10.11. Paul > On 2 Oct 2015, at 14:54, Martin Koob wrote: > > I downloaded DP6 to try my application on it for Global Jam > > I tried it on My MacBook Pro retina. > In Mac OS X 10.11 I opened my application to see if it would run. It > opened but when I clicked on an object with the pointer tool the object > would receive a mouseUp. > Sometimes I would click on an object with the browse tool and the object > would be selected. > I could not get a popup menu to appear when clicking with the pointer tool > and the control key down so can't open the script editor for that project. > I could not open the script editor for a button with I pressed option and > command key and clicked on the button with the browse tool. > > I tried again with a simple stack with one button and saw the same thing. > > I tried both the indy and community versions. > > I tried this Mac OS X 10.8.5 and got the same results. > > I also got the same results with DP5. > > I tried DP2 and that did not happen. > > I tried this on a Mac Mini and I don't see this at all. > > Is anyone else seeing this? Any idea as to why this would happen? > > Martin > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-8-0-0-DP-6-tp4696826p4696840.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Sat Oct 3 00:47:44 2015 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 21:47:44 -0700 Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > I?m seeing similar and worse results on a MacBook Pro Retina with El > Capitan (OS X 10.11). > It might not be Livecode. There's a lot of new crap on El Capitan. Methinks it needs a couple updates, and a LOT of other developers are not ready to certify compat. I just spent the afternoon restoring my laptop back to Yosemite. sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words From paul at livecode.org Sat Oct 3 01:09:36 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:09:36 -0700 Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I agree that it may not be totally LC, but LC 5/6/7 all work fine, the only problems I?m seeing are with LC8, I haven?t tried earlier versions of 8 on this Mac just yet, although I'm not seeing problems with any other software so far. I?ll download and try dp5 next. Paul > On 2 Oct 2015, at 21:47, stephen barncard wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > >> I?m seeing similar and worse results on a MacBook Pro Retina with El >> Capitan (OS X 10.11). >> > > It might not be Livecode. > There's a lot of new crap on El Capitan. Methinks it needs a couple > updates, and a LOT of other developers are not ready to certify compat. > > I just spent the afternoon restoring my laptop back to Yosemite. > > sqb > > -- > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From simon at asato-media.com Sat Oct 3 01:27:26 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1443850046376-4696852.post@n4.nabble.com> Wow, on Win 7 lots of funny stuff. On going to next card it moves the stack to the main monitor. Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-8-0-0-DP-6-tp4696826p4696852.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sat Oct 3 04:00:38 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 08:00:38 +0000 Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: <1443850046376-4696852.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> <1443850046376-4696852.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: The latter is a regression introduced in the 6.7 branch (bug 16017)- it will be fixed for DP 7. On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 at 06:27, Simon wrote: > Wow, on Win 7 lots of funny stuff. > On going to next card it moves the stack to the main monitor. > > Simon > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-8-0-0-DP-6-tp4696826p4696852.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sat Oct 3 04:00:38 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 08:00:38 +0000 Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: <1443850046376-4696852.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> <1443850046376-4696852.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: The latter is a regression introduced in the 6.7 branch (bug 16017)- it will be fixed for DP 7. On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 at 06:27, Simon wrote: > Wow, on Win 7 lots of funny stuff. > On going to next card it moves the stack to the main monitor. > > Simon > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-8-0-0-DP-6-tp4696826p4696852.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bernd.gottwald at outrange.com Sat Oct 3 06:00:12 2015 From: bernd.gottwald at outrange.com (bernd.gottwald at outrange.com) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:00:12 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_use=2Dlivecode_Digest,_Vol_145,_Issue_4?= Message-ID: <20151003100012.B479133E1BD4@divico3.ch-meta.net> Bis zum 12.10.2015 bin ich nicht verf?gbar. Ich werde meine Emails nicht lesen. In dringenden F?llen erreichen Sie mich ?ber mein Mobiltelefon. I will be out of office until 12.10.2015. I won't read me emails. In urgent matter please call me on my mobile. From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 12:52:14 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:52:14 -0700 Subject: Further regression of the Pirate Code Dots Message-ID: I just realized that sometime along the way, I just came to accept this further regression. I have always had to force an answer, and then a breakpoint, if I wanted execution to break on startup. Unacceptable, a sloppy and longstanding bug on live code's part, but I learned to live with it. I have some editor windows that are opened during program launch in the IDE. I've come to realize that most/some/all of the time, if I have not physically clicked on a particular tab, it will never stop at a breakpoint dot. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Sat Oct 3 13:27:17 2015 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:27:17 +0100 Subject: Further regression of the Pirate Code Dots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56100FF5.8070101@livecode.com> On 03/10/15 17:52, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I have always had to force an answer, and then a breakpoint, if I wanted > execution to break on startup. Unacceptable, a sloppy and longstanding bug > on live code's part, but I learned to live with it. > > I have some editor windows that are opened during program launch in the IDE. > > I've come to realize that most/some/all of the time, if I have not > physically clicked on a particular tab, it will never stop at a breakpoint > dot. I searched the bugzilla but couldn't find reports of either of these... what are the bug numbers so we can ensure that they are given the appropriate priority? Fraser From paul at livecode.org Sat Oct 3 13:50:20 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 10:50:20 -0700 Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: After a suggestion from James Hale the problem closing the script editor seems to be caused by a plugin, so now I need to work through and find the culprit, James had an issue with lcStackBrowser, I?ll report back when I find what caused this problem. The crashes using a menu button still exists, but I?ve now found this affects LC Indy 7.1 also. (bug report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16074). Paul > On 2 Oct 2015, at 21:34, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > I?m seeing similar and worse results on a MacBook Pro Retina with El Capitan (OS X 10.11). > > Just downloaded DP6 Community tonight and already it?s crashed several times. > > I can?t close a script. When I try to compile a script the indicator button stays yellow, then when I try to close the script I just get the 'Save Changes? dialogue, if I?m successful in dismissing this dialogue, LC crashes. - Bug reported. > > I?ve also just filed another bug report about the inspector crashing when inspecting widgets. > > I don?t feel too inspired to go much further, it just feels like a waste of my time even though I really do want to see LC8 grow into something more useful. I don?t see how the bug jam can progress much with this version, at least not on OS X 10.11. > > Paul > >> On 2 Oct 2015, at 14:54, Martin Koob wrote: >> >> I downloaded DP6 to try my application on it for Global Jam >> >> I tried it on My MacBook Pro retina. >> In Mac OS X 10.11 I opened my application to see if it would run. It >> opened but when I clicked on an object with the pointer tool the object >> would receive a mouseUp. >> Sometimes I would click on an object with the browse tool and the object >> would be selected. >> I could not get a popup menu to appear when clicking with the pointer tool >> and the control key down so can't open the script editor for that project. >> I could not open the script editor for a button with I pressed option and >> command key and clicked on the button with the browse tool. >> >> I tried again with a simple stack with one button and saw the same thing. >> >> I tried both the indy and community versions. >> >> I tried this Mac OS X 10.8.5 and got the same results. >> >> I also got the same results with DP5. >> >> I tried DP2 and that did not happen. >> >> I tried this on a Mac Mini and I don't see this at all. >> >> Is anyone else seeing this? Any idea as to why this would happen? >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-8-0-0-DP-6-tp4696826p4696840.html >> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 15:45:12 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:45:12 -0700 Subject: Further regression of the Pirate Code Dots In-Reply-To: <56100FF5.8070101@livecode.com> References: <56100FF5.8070101@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Fraser Gordon wrote: > I searched the bugzilla but couldn't find reports of either of these... > what are the bug numbers so we can ensure that they are given the > appropriate priority? > *blink* Those aren't in the DB? They've been around so long . . . and have been discusses so much . . . now: *Bug 16079* - breakpoints & breaks do not work until after an answer issues I don't know that I can reproduce the tab opening one yet. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Oct 3 15:46:34 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 15:46:34 -0400 Subject: scheduling In-Reply-To: References: <8515A313-0039-4303-A218-BAD6692B93A5@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: This doesn't work well in a single-threaded environment. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Probably the easiest way would be to have a send loop running, and see if > any jobs (whatever you want to call it) are due yet. If you keep the jobs > sorted you can check the next one in queue, and if its not time for it to > fire yet, none of them are, so loop. If it IS time, keep checking the > list until you hit a job that isn't due yet. then loop again. > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > oh, wow. Sorry, Bob, that wasn't what I meant. I meant scheduling > > messages like as in pendingMessages, like a CRON subsystem > > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Bob Sneidar > > > wrote: > > > > > I did some work in this regard in an app I called Conference Scheduler > > > Lite. The big thing with date and time calculations is understanding > that > > > an event scheduled for 08:00 - 10:00 does NOT conflict with one from > > 10:00 > > > to 12:00. Also, someone staying in a room from the first to the third > > does > > > NOT conflict with someone staying from the 3rd to the 5th. In other > > words, > > > times and dates can touch without overlapping. Special case has to be > > used > > > for this in any SQL queries. > > > > > > I also recently wrote a time calc function that can give you the > > > difference between two times so that 12:00 to 13:00 produces 1:00. > It's > > > not a trivial thing to do. I ended up using the approach of converting > > > values to seconds, doing the math then converting it back to > > > hours:minutes:seconds again. > > > > > > Bob S > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 30, 2015, at 11:35 , Mike Kerner > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been messing around with scheduling events in LC, and have run > > into > > > a > > > > variety of things that make life harder. Does anybody have a > > CRON/event > > > > scheduling library for LC before I write the other 60% of one? > > > > > > > > Well, I'm probably simplifying the task - the other 85% of one? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > and did a little diving. > > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 16:27:57 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:27:57 -0700 Subject: current/this stack changes and doesn't reset when calling custom dialog Message-ID: I created my own dialog for a variety of reasons, but get different behavior than when using ask In put the name of this stack answer "should i" with "yes" or "no" put it into theRes put the name of this stack the stack doesn't change. However put the name of this stack put dhbkAnswer( "should i" ,, "yes no") put it into theRes put the name of this stack chances the context/ value of "this stack" dhbkAnswr() calls a modal stack with custom buttons. Do I need to do some push/pop or some such? And if so, can it be in dhbkAnswr() rather than repeated every time? Can I "set" the value of "this stack"? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From paul at livecode.org Sat Oct 3 18:36:20 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 15:36:20 -0700 Subject: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 In-Reply-To: References: <560EB7EF.3070106@livecode.com> <1443822884529-4696840.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Well I eventually found the culprit, it was one of my own utilities that I had saved in the plugins folder and set to open as LC starts up. There was a small bug in the utility that LC5/6/7 silently ignored, but LC8 chokes on it, with the plugin opening as LC starts it really upset the IDE and caused it to crash eventually. Now that I?ve fixed the bug in the plugin the IDE is responding correctly. I tested the crash caused by releasing the mouse button outside of a menu button?s choices on an old 2007 MacBook Pro running OS X 10.6.8 with LC7.1 and LC8 dp6 and it doesn?t crash on the old Mac, but it crashes every time on a new MacBook Pro. Paul > On 3 Oct 2015, at 10:50, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > After a suggestion from James Hale the problem closing the script editor seems to be caused by a plugin, so now I need to work through and find the culprit, James had an issue with lcStackBrowser, I?ll report back when I find what caused this problem. > > The crashes using a menu button still exists, but I?ve now found this affects LC Indy 7.1 also. (bug report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16074). > > Paul > >> On 2 Oct 2015, at 21:34, Paul Hibbert wrote: >> >> I?m seeing similar and worse results on a MacBook Pro Retina with El Capitan (OS X 10.11). >> >> Just downloaded DP6 Community tonight and already it?s crashed several times. >> >> I can?t close a script. When I try to compile a script the indicator button stays yellow, then when I try to close the script I just get the 'Save Changes? dialogue, if I?m successful in dismissing this dialogue, LC crashes. - Bug reported. >> >> I?ve also just filed another bug report about the inspector crashing when inspecting widgets. >> >> I don?t feel too inspired to go much further, it just feels like a waste of my time even though I really do want to see LC8 grow into something more useful. I don?t see how the bug jam can progress much with this version, at least not on OS X 10.11. >> >> Paul >> >>> On 2 Oct 2015, at 14:54, Martin Koob wrote: >>> >>> I downloaded DP6 to try my application on it for Global Jam >>> >>> I tried it on My MacBook Pro retina. >>> In Mac OS X 10.11 I opened my application to see if it would run. It >>> opened but when I clicked on an object with the pointer tool the object >>> would receive a mouseUp. >>> Sometimes I would click on an object with the browse tool and the object >>> would be selected. >>> I could not get a popup menu to appear when clicking with the pointer tool >>> and the control key down so can't open the script editor for that project. >>> I could not open the script editor for a button with I pressed option and >>> command key and clicked on the button with the browse tool. >>> >>> I tried again with a simple stack with one button and saw the same thing. >>> >>> I tried both the indy and community versions. >>> >>> I tried this Mac OS X 10.8.5 and got the same results. >>> >>> I also got the same results with DP5. >>> >>> I tried DP2 and that did not happen. >>> >>> I tried this on a Mac Mini and I don't see this at all. >>> >>> Is anyone else seeing this? Any idea as to why this would happen? >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-8-0-0-DP-6-tp4696826p4696840.html >>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Sun Oct 4 00:15:06 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 04:15:06 +0000 Subject: IS AMONG anamolies Message-ID: If I put this in a button: on mouseup put ("ha" is among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka") end mouseUp We get ?true? If I put this in the msg box "ha" is among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka? Returns ?false? If we use put "ha" is among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka? Returns true OK? now move over to the server the URL is someDomain/index.lc?ha And my code is put $_SERVER[QUERY_STRING] into tEntryPoint if (tEntryPoint is among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka") then put empty into tEntryPoint end if tEntryPoint is Empty If I comment out the if statement and simple pass tEntryPoint to the html I get ?ha? So, why does (tEntryPoint is among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka?) evaluate to false, both in this server script context and in the msg box without the cmd ?put? ?? An attempt to emulate the msg box on the server: Somedomain/index.lc?ha put $_SERVER[QUERY_STRING] into tEntryPoint put (tEntryPoint is among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka") into tTest if tTest="true" then # do nothing else put tTest into tEntryPoint end if And later in some old code in the HTML: Outputs nothing Change that to output: ?false? ! But the query_string *is* among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka? and ?yikes? •  
  • •  
    • ?ha" appears in both cases bottom line Somedomain/index.lc?ha put $_SERVER[QUERY_STRING] into tEntryPoint put (tEntryPoint is among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka?) evaluates to false Why? BR From charles at techstrategies.com.au Sun Oct 4 02:21:38 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 16:21:38 +1000 Subject: IS AMONG anamolies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, > > ?ha" appears in both cases > > bottom line > > Somedomain/index.lc?ha > put $_SERVER[QUERY_STRING] into tEntryPoint > put (tEntryPoint is among the items of "ha,ht,hhe,taka?) > > evaluates to false > > Why? > Which version of LC server are you using? Using 7.0.6 server with index.lc as follows: Calling that from a web browser as http://mydomain.com/index.lc?ha I get a response: true By the sounds of it, you are seeing false here instead? Cheers, Charles From charles at techstrategies.com.au Sun Oct 4 05:46:40 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 19:46:40 +1000 Subject: Further regression of the Pirate Code Dots In-Reply-To: References: <56100FF5.8070101@livecode.com> Message-ID: <41AE1859-E462-41E0-9AC4-42C129E67255@techstrategies.com.au> > > *blink* > > Those aren't in the DB? They've been around so long . . . and have been > discusses so much . . . > > now: > > *Bug 16079* - breakpoints > & breaks do not work until after an answer issues > I just tried to reproduce that one myself in LC 7.1.0 and LC 8.0 DP5, but the breakpoint was triggered every time without requiring an answer dialog. Do you have a simple example stack I could try? Cheers, Charles From bernd.gottwald at outrange.com Sun Oct 4 06:00:24 2015 From: bernd.gottwald at outrange.com (bernd.gottwald at outrange.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 12:00:24 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_use=2Dlivecode_Digest,_Vol_145,_Issue_5?= Message-ID: <20151004100024.3A05C33E2A56@divico3.ch-meta.net> Bis zum 12.10.2015 bin ich nicht verf?gbar. Ich werde meine Emails nicht lesen. In dringenden F?llen erreichen Sie mich ?ber mein Mobiltelefon. I will be out of office until 12.10.2015. I won't read me emails. In urgent matter please call me on my mobile. From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 06:37:55 2015 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 11:37:55 +0100 Subject: Paths in Mac standalone headache In-Reply-To: References: <8515A313-0039-4303-A218-BAD6692B93A5@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <308AED19-D512-4114-A202-A2566B02DE0D@gmail.com> In my apps openstack script I setup a path for saving and getting results using specialfolderpath(?documents?), and put that in a global gresultspath I use that to access results in a couple of places within substacks, using a fairly standard script. This works fine in development, and fine on Windows standalone. In all cases on the Mac the results files are never loaded, because the path isn?t properly set. I bunged in a debugging field to see what is happening: on mouseUp global gresultspath put the defaultfolder into toldefault set the defaultfolder to gresultspath -- whats going on with the results path? put ?Was " & toldefault & return & ?Should be " & gresultspath & return & "Is " & the defaultfolder into field ?whatsgoingon" put the files into ttemp filter ttemp without ".DS_Store" filter ttemp without "template" put ttemp into field "resultsfiles" set the defaultfolder to toldefault end mouseUp On Windows the path is set as expected. On Mac, wherever I move the app to, the default folder doesn?t get set, and the files which are put into ttemp are any within the folder containing the app. So, the debugging field reports: Was = correct path Should be = correct path Is = path to the standalone I am using 6.7.4 on Snow Leopard Any suggestions? Best wishes, David Glasgow From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Sun Oct 4 06:44:18 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 11:44:18 +0100 Subject: Paths in Mac standalone headache In-Reply-To: <308AED19-D512-4114-A202-A2566B02DE0D@gmail.com> References: , <8515A313-0039-4303-A218-BAD6692B93A5@iotecdigital.com>, , , , <308AED19-D512-4114-A202-A2566B02DE0D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Would this help you in setting the defaultfolder on preOpenStack set itemDel to "/" set the defaultfolder to item 1 to -2 of (the effective fileName of this stack) end preOpenStack > From: dvglasgow at gmail.com > Subject: Paths in Mac standalone headache > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 11:37:55 +0100 > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > In my apps openstack script I setup a path for saving and getting results using specialfolderpath(?documents?), and put that in a global gresultspath > > I use that to access results in a couple of places within substacks, using a fairly standard script. This works fine in development, and fine on Windows standalone. > > In all cases on the Mac the results files are never loaded, because the path isn?t properly set. I bunged in a debugging field to see what is happening: > > on mouseUp > global gresultspath > put the defaultfolder into toldefault > set the defaultfolder to gresultspath > > -- whats going on with the results path? > put ?Was " & toldefault & return & ?Should be " & gresultspath & return & "Is " & the defaultfolder into field ?whatsgoingon" > > put the files into ttemp > filter ttemp without ".DS_Store" > filter ttemp without "template" > put ttemp into field "resultsfiles" > set the defaultfolder to toldefault > end mouseUp > > On Windows the path is set as expected. On Mac, wherever I move the app to, the default folder doesn?t get set, and the files which are put into ttemp are any within the folder containing the app. So, the debugging field reports: > > Was = correct path > Should be = correct path > Is = path to the standalone > > I am using 6.7.4 on Snow Leopard > > Any suggestions? > > > > Best wishes, > > David Glasgow > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From james at thehales.id.au Sun Oct 4 09:31:19 2015 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 00:31:19 +1100 Subject: DP6 more strict? Message-ID: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> In running some stacks against DP6 I came across a script error on opening one. The stack in question was simply a copy of a stack I have run without error since lc5.5. The error was well and truly an error. I had a repeat loop which I inadvertently entered as... Repeat for X = 1 to aNumber .... End repeat I guess it is a hang up from other languages I used in the past and I normally catch myself and enter the correct form... Repeat with X = 1 to aNumber .... End repeat However this time I didn't. I hadn't since I first wrote this script way back then. The point of this post is that not only did I miss this but Livecode missed it through every version until LC 8. Try it out, put the first, incorrect form into a LC7 script and see if it compiles. Now try the same in LC 8 dp6 or dp5 I can't speak for the other DP's as I have only thought to test this stack against the current release. As has been posted some plugins are interfering with the correct function of the IDE and I wonder if this "stricter" (well more correct) behavior of the script engine in picking up errors is the cause. Perhaps there are quite a few scripts with errors that have slipped through in the past but will now stand out like the proverbial? As an aside, I suggest you remove any plugins from your initial play with the latest DP, at least until you are happy with the behavior of the IDE just in case this new diligence on the part of the engine catches you out. James From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Oct 4 10:09:31 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 16:09:31 +0200 Subject: DP6 more strict? In-Reply-To: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: <5611331B.6080607@economy-x-talk.com> Hi, Yes, I understand that the engine has become more strict. I believe it is a good thing, in most cases. If you notice that a plug-in doesn't work properly, please report it to the developer of the plug-in. -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/4/2015 om 15:31 schreef James Hale: > In running some stacks against DP6 I came across a script error on opening one. > The stack in question was simply a copy of a stack I have run without error since lc5.5. > The error was well and truly an error. > I had a repeat loop which I inadvertently entered as... > Repeat for X = 1 to aNumber > .... > End repeat > > I guess it is a hang up from other languages I used in the past and I normally catch myself and enter the correct form... > > Repeat with X = 1 to aNumber > .... > End repeat > > However this time I didn't. > I hadn't since I first wrote this script way back then. > > The point of this post is that not only did I miss this but Livecode missed it through every version until LC 8. > > Try it out, put the first, incorrect form into a LC7 script and see if it compiles. > Now try the same in LC 8 dp6 or dp5 > > I can't speak for the other DP's as I have only thought to test this stack against the current release. > > As has been posted some plugins are interfering with the correct function of the IDE and I wonder if this "stricter" (well more correct) behavior of the script engine in picking up errors is the cause. Perhaps there are quite a few scripts with errors that have slipped through in the past but will now stand out like the proverbial? > > As an aside, I suggest you remove any plugins from your initial play with the latest DP, at least until you are happy with the behavior of the IDE just in case this new diligence on the part of the engine catches you out. > > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Sun Oct 4 10:21:16 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 15:21:16 +0100 Subject: DP6 more strict? In-Reply-To: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> I must confess this was one 'fix' which I was unsure about. The LiveCode script parser is very very lax - you can write things which look like they should work in some fashion, but don't actually do what you think. For a long time I have always had the point of view that such things should not be fixed until a suitable compatibility mechanism is in place, based on presumed impact. However, this time, we decided to see what impact such a change (to the repeat command in this instance) would make (making decisions with actual data is generally better than without!). As it turns out a couple of people have commented that it is a good thing as it has uncovered bugs in their scripts. A couple have found things have broken (we found a couple in the IDE as well) usually in third party components. I'm still somewhat on the fence about it but am intending to wait and see whether the change is going to cause more trouble than it's worth. We can always revert the patch in a subsequent build based on further feedback. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Oct 2015, at 14:31, James Hale wrote: > > In running some stacks against DP6 I came across a script error on opening one. > The stack in question was simply a copy of a stack I have run without error since lc5.5. > The error was well and truly an error. > I had a repeat loop which I inadvertently entered as... > Repeat for X = 1 to aNumber > .... > End repeat > > I guess it is a hang up from other languages I used in the past and I normally catch myself and enter the correct form... > > Repeat with X = 1 to aNumber > .... > End repeat > > However this time I didn't. > I hadn't since I first wrote this script way back then. > > The point of this post is that not only did I miss this but Livecode missed it through every version until LC 8. > > Try it out, put the first, incorrect form into a LC7 script and see if it compiles. > Now try the same in LC 8 dp6 or dp5 > > I can't speak for the other DP's as I have only thought to test this stack against the current release. > > As has been posted some plugins are interfering with the correct function of the IDE and I wonder if this "stricter" (well more correct) behavior of the script engine in picking up errors is the cause. Perhaps there are quite a few scripts with errors that have slipped through in the past but will now stand out like the proverbial? > > As an aside, I suggest you remove any plugins from your initial play with the latest DP, at least until you are happy with the behavior of the IDE just in case this new diligence on the part of the engine catches you out. > > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 12:32:09 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 19:32:09 +0300 Subject: Release 6.7.7 / 7.1.0 In-Reply-To: <5603FFE8.208@livecode.com> References: <5603FFE8.208@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56115489.8070802@gmail.com> 7.1.0 installer crashes on a 64-bit install of Xubuntu 14.0.4.4 Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Oct 4 12:48:32 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 17:48:32 +0100 Subject: Release 6.7.7 / 7.1.0 In-Reply-To: <56115489.8070802@gmail.com> References: <5603FFE8.208@livecode.com> <56115489.8070802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <899b2a2c66a02ab4e244416e83d044f2@livecode.com> On 2015-10-04 17:32, Richmond wrote: > 7.1.0 installer crashes on a 64-bit install of Xubuntu 14.0.4.4 At what stage does it crash? Does it print any messages to the console? Are you running the 64-bit installer or the 32-bit installer? Community, Indy or Business edition? Have you filed a bug report? Inquiring minds wish to know. ;-) For what it's worth, it seems to work fine for me on Fedora 22 x86-64. We will quite likely will need all of the information above to figure out what's going on. It'll definitely make things easier if you file a bug report where we can collect all of the information in one place! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 13:47:43 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 20:47:43 +0300 Subject: Release 6.7.7 / 7.1.0 In-Reply-To: <899b2a2c66a02ab4e244416e83d044f2@livecode.com> References: <5603FFE8.208@livecode.com> <56115489.8070802@gmail.com> <899b2a2c66a02ab4e244416e83d044f2@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5611663F.6000006@gmail.com> On 4.10.2015 19:48, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-10-04 17:32, Richmond wrote: >> 7.1.0 installer crashes on a 64-bit install of Xubuntu 14.0.4.4 > > At what stage does it crash? Does it print any messages to the > console? Are you running the 64-bit installer or the 32-bit > installer? Community, Indy or Business edition? Have you filed a bug > report? Inquiring minds wish to know. ;-) > > For what it's worth, it seems to work fine for me on Fedora 22 > x86-64. We will quite likely will need all of the information above > to figure out what's going on. It'll definitely make things easier if > you file a bug report where we can collect all of the information in > one place! > > Peter > Many of the Linux releases seem to misbehave themselves well if one chooses the "Ayn Rand" option [ You Only ]; since the release of the first Community version I have found about 25% of them have "gone wonky" for 'You Only'. Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Oct 4 13:50:17 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 18:50:17 +0100 Subject: Release 6.7.7 / 7.1.0 In-Reply-To: <5611663F.6000006@gmail.com> References: <5603FFE8.208@livecode.com> <56115489.8070802@gmail.com> <899b2a2c66a02ab4e244416e83d044f2@livecode.com> <5611663F.6000006@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-04 18:47, Richmond wrote: > On 4.10.2015 19:48, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> On 2015-10-04 17:32, Richmond wrote: >>> 7.1.0 installer crashes on a 64-bit install of Xubuntu 14.0.4.4 >> >> At what stage does it crash? Does it print any messages to the >> console? Are you running the 64-bit installer or the 32-bit >> installer? Community, Indy or Business edition? Have you filed a bug >> report? Inquiring minds wish to know. ;-) >> >> For what it's worth, it seems to work fine for me on Fedora 22 x86-64. >> We will quite likely will need all of the information above to figure >> out what's going on. It'll definitely make things easier if you file >> a bug report where we can collect all of the information in one place! >> >> Peter >> > > Many of the Linux releases seem to misbehave themselves well if one > chooses the "Ayn Rand" option [ You Only ]; since the release of > the first Community version I have found about 25% of them have "gone > wonky" for 'You Only'. Ah, that's a really interesting data point. I shall experiment tomorrow evening (in between everything else I'm supposed to be doing. ;-) Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 15:17:43 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 15:17:43 -0400 Subject: [OT-ish] new Meetup group Message-ID: <5E4A605B-F402-420B-96D1-18EEDA5495E5@gmail.com> A user group that I?ve belonged to for quite a long time has become quieter in the last couple of years. We went from having weekly meetings, where 10-30 people would show up to just talk about Flash related topics, down to monthly meetings that covered a wide range of tools, where in some cases only me and another organizer would show up! To try to revive things a bit I started a new Meetup group. I haven?t yet set a date for the first meeting, I first wanted to break the news to the old group?s members, as we?ll most likely stop doing those meetings. I did that recently, and several of that group have signed up for the new Meetup group. There are 38 members so far. I have been given permission to hold the meetings at the office I go to. It?s a neat place, open plan 6000 square feet, with movable dividers so that the whole room can be configured for different purposes. Here?s a Google Street View of the place: https://goo.gl/maps/6K5TP Anyway, LiveCode certainly falls in the range of tools that we will have meetings about, so if you?re in the NYC area and would like to come along, here?s the Meetup page: http://www.meetup.com/NYCoders-App-Development-Meetup/ From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 15:53:07 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 22:53:07 +0300 Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 15.10 64-bit Beta Message-ID: <561183A3.3040601@gmail.com> I installed this on my main machine about a week ago and it imitated exactly the conditions of blown capacitors in a video card. Streaky effects all over the desktop, panels, and in file-browser (Thunar) windows, and almost completely bu**ering up LiveCode's interface. This took me about 3 days to work out it was the Operating system and not the hardware. I have reverted to Xubuntu 14.04 LTS 64-bit and will remain with that until Ubuntu pop out their next LTS (2016). Richmond. From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 17:12:43 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:12:43 -0700 Subject: Further regression of the Pirate Code Dots In-Reply-To: <41AE1859-E462-41E0-9AC4-42C129E67255@techstrategies.com.au> References: <56100FF5.8070101@livecode.com> <41AE1859-E462-41E0-9AC4-42C129E67255@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 2:46 AM, Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > I just tried to reproduce that one myself in LC 7.1.0 and LC 8.0 DP5, but > the breakpoint was > triggered every time without requiring an answer dialog. > > Do you have a simple example stack I could try? > I just uploaded it. This is the script of the stack; *on* preOpenStack *local* a, b, c *put* 3 into a *put* 4 into b *add* 6 to b *put* a+b into c *breakpoint* *answer* "nyah, nyah!" & cr & cr & "I passed the breakpoint!" *put* a, b, c *end* preOpenStack There's a PCD at line 5, and it's ignored, too. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From warren at warrensweb.us Sun Oct 4 18:30:21 2015 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 17:30:21 -0500 Subject: Release 6.7.7 / 7.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <5603FFE8.208@livecode.com> <56115489.8070802@gmail.com> <899b2a2c66a02ab4e244416e83d044f2@livecode.com> <5611663F.6000006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5611A87D.1010002@warrensweb.us> On 10/04/2015 12:50 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> Many of the Linux releases seem to misbehave themselves well if one >> chooses the "Ayn Rand" option [ You Only ]; since the release of >> the first Community version I have found about 25% of them have "gone >> wonky" for 'You Only'. > > Ah, that's a really interesting data point. I shall experiment tomorrow > evening (in between everything else I'm supposed to be doing. ;-) Not to dispute what Richmond reports as his unfortunate experience, I can say that I only ever install for "me only" and have never had difficulties with the installers.openSUSE 13.2-64bit. Warren From paul at researchware.com Sun Oct 4 18:37:36 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 18:37:36 -0400 Subject: License activation for old versions Message-ID: <5611AA30.30605@researchware.com> In working this weekend on a customer issue, I needed to check a behavior of an older version of LiveCode (version 4.6.4). Yes, I know how old that is, but we have a standalone built on it that - for reason far to complex to go into - we can't immediately update to a newer engine. When I try to activate the license, I get the message "An error occurred while attempting to contact the server. Please try again later." I have been trying again ... later ... and still later. I will continue to try again later. But I also thought I should ask and see if anyone knows if LiveCode did something to kill really old license activation. I know I can still download 464 from the store (which is awesome!) Paul Dupuis Researchware From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Oct 4 18:56:41 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 00:56:41 +0200 Subject: License activation for old versions In-Reply-To: <5611AA30.30605@researchware.com> References: <5611AA30.30605@researchware.com> Message-ID: <5611AEA9.8000407@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Paul, If you can download Revolution/LiveCode 4.6.4, you should be able to either enter a serial number or download a license file from the store. If you download a license file and select manual activation in the registration window, you should not need to access the server when registering. -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/5/2015 om 00:37 schreef Paul Dupuis: > In working this weekend on a customer issue, I needed to check a > behavior of an older version of LiveCode (version 4.6.4). Yes, I know > how old that is, but we have a standalone built on it that - for reason > far to complex to go into - we can't immediately update to a newer engine. > > When I try to activate the license, I get the message "An error occurred > while attempting to contact the server. Please try again later." > > I have been trying again ... later ... and still later. I will continue > to try again later. But I also thought I should ask and see if anyone > knows if LiveCode did something to kill really old license activation. I > know I can still download 464 from the store (which is awesome!) > > Paul Dupuis > Researchware > From paul at researchware.com Sun Oct 4 19:06:35 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 19:06:35 -0400 Subject: License activation for old versions In-Reply-To: <5611AEA9.8000407@economy-x-talk.com> References: <5611AA30.30605@researchware.com> <5611AEA9.8000407@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <5611B0FB.30006@researchware.com> On 10/4/2015 6:56 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Hi Paul, > > If you can download Revolution/LiveCode 4.6.4, you should be able to > either enter a serial number or download a license file from the > store. If you download a license file and select manual activation in > the registration window, you should not need to access the server when > registering. > Mark, Thanks. However, either I am missing something (which I hope is the case) or there doesn't appear to be a way to download a manual license file from the store any more? I considered the manual option, but can't find a way to self-generate a manual license file. Paul From james at thehales.id.au Sun Oct 4 19:02:45 2015 From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 16:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: DP6 more strict? In-Reply-To: <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1443999765029-4696882.post@n4.nabble.com> I agree with MarkS on this, it is a good thing. I think I would have liked a warning though. One sort of looks past what has been ok before in trying to see where an error is. A bit like the difficulty in proofreading something you have written. You tend to "see" what you expect rather than what's there. James -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/DP6-more-strict-tp4696868p4696882.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 19:51:48 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 17:51:48 -0600 Subject: License activation for old versions In-Reply-To: <5611B0FB.30006@researchware.com> References: <5611AA30.30605@researchware.com> <5611AEA9.8000407@economy-x-talk.com> <5611B0FB.30006@researchware.com> Message-ID: if you go to http://livecode.com/account/products/products-old you should be able to generate an activation file. On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > On 10/4/2015 6:56 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > > > If you can download Revolution/LiveCode 4.6.4, you should be able to > > either enter a serial number or download a license file from the > > store. If you download a license file and select manual activation in > > the registration window, you should not need to access the server when > > registering. > > > Mark, > > Thanks. However, either I am missing something (which I hope is the > case) or there doesn't appear to be a way to download a manual license > file from the store any more? I considered the manual option, but can't > find a way to self-generate a manual license file. > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Sun Oct 4 20:28:04 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 20:28:04 -0400 Subject: License activation for old versions In-Reply-To: References: <5611AA30.30605@researchware.com> <5611AEA9.8000407@economy-x-talk.com> <5611B0FB.30006@researchware.com> Message-ID: <5611C414.10005@researchware.com> On 10/4/2015 7:51 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > if you go to http://livecode.com/account/products/products-old you should > be able to generate an activation file. Mike, Thanks, but I have logged in and been over that page a zillion time now and I see no way to generate and download a manual license file. What am I missing? Paul From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 4 21:42:51 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 18:42:51 -0700 Subject: License activation for old versions In-Reply-To: <5611C414.10005@researchware.com> References: <5611AA30.30605@researchware.com> <5611AEA9.8000407@economy-x-talk.com> <5611B0FB.30006@researchware.com> <5611C414.10005@researchware.com> Message-ID: <5611D59B.4020602@ahsoftware.net> On 10/04/2015 05:28 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > On 10/4/2015 7:51 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: >> if you go to http://livecode.com/account/products/products-old you should >> be able to generate an activation file. > > Mike, > > Thanks, but I have logged in and been over that page a zillion time now > and I see no way to generate and download a manual license file. What am > I missing? On that page there is a link 'Generage LiveCode offline activation file'. If you click on it you get to select a version and a passphrase. It's at the top of the puke-green section. ...and don't worry about using an old version, 4.6.4 is the most stable build I have on any of my systems. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 4 21:47:56 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 18:47:56 -0700 Subject: DP6 more strict? In-Reply-To: <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5611D6CC.10906@ahsoftware.net> On 10/04/2015 07:21 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > I'm still somewhat on the fence about it but am intending to wait and see whether the change is going to cause more trouble than it's worth. We can always revert the patch in a subsequent build based on further feedback. I'm on the fence about this one as well. Although I'm really tending toward allowing the alternate syntax. If the engine's parser can handle it then it seems silly not to change the documentation to allow either form. Aren't we supposed to be about empowering users rather than dictating and restricting what can be done? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Oct 5 00:08:47 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 14:08:47 +1000 Subject: Further regression of the Pirate Code Dots In-Reply-To: References: <56100FF5.8070101@livecode.com> <41AE1859-E462-41E0-9AC4-42C129E67255@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <5ECED739-B880-4413-857A-6D6FD7B22ACB@techstrategies.com.au> >> I just tried to reproduce that one myself in LC 7.1.0 and LC 8.0 DP5, but >> the breakpoint was >> triggered every time without requiring an answer dialog. >> >> Do you have a simple example stack I could try? >> > > I just uploaded it. This is the script of the stack; > > *on* preOpenStack > > *local* a, b, c > Ah, this is with "preOpenStack", not "openStack?. That is why I wasn?t noticing the issue. Using your uploaded stack the hardcoded ?breakpoint? line triggered the debugger every time before the answer dialog for me. It did miss the red dot though. Cheers, Charles From james at thehales.id.au Mon Oct 5 03:58:22 2015 From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 00:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: DP6 more strict? In-Reply-To: <5611D6CC.10906@ahsoftware.net> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> <5611D6CC.10906@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <1444031902026-4696888.post@n4.nabble.com> Except the alternate syntax can no longer be handled. Whatever side of the fence one eventually chooses the docs need to match, and if this stricter mode is kept some flag about it in both the docs and the release notes is warranted. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/DP6-more-strict-tp4696868p4696888.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 5 04:33:32 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:33:32 +0100 Subject: [ANN]SoCal LiveCode Meeting, Oct 1 In-Reply-To: <560B71E2.50507@fourthworld.com> References: <55E4DFD6.2050200@fourthworld.com> <560B71E2.50507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <376513fafb6ff35ad6f5aeb656786ad2@livecode.com> On 2015-09-30 06:23, Richard Gaskin wrote: > The next meeting of the SoCal LiveCode User Group is coming up > Thursday, October 1, at 7PM in Pasadena - details in the forums: > > If you give me at least a week's warning in future, I'll make sure that it appears in the "events" section of This Week in LiveCode! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 5 05:11:06 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 10:11:06 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 3 Message-ID: <5cd9439276ef33311fb4089cf3086617@livecode.com> Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #3 here: https://goo.gl/t97qSo This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From bernd.gottwald at outrange.com Mon Oct 5 06:00:12 2015 From: bernd.gottwald at outrange.com (bernd.gottwald at outrange.com) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 12:00:12 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_use=2Dlivecode_Digest,_Vol_145,_Issue_6?= Message-ID: <20151005100012.4BB0E33E2A62@divico3.ch-meta.net> Bis zum 12.10.2015 bin ich nicht verf?gbar. Ich werde meine Emails nicht lesen. In dringenden F?llen erreichen Sie mich ?ber mein Mobiltelefon. I will be out of office until 12.10.2015. I won't read me emails. In urgent matter please call me on my mobile. From paul at researchware.com Mon Oct 5 08:15:00 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:15:00 -0400 Subject: License activation for old versions In-Reply-To: <5611D59B.4020602@ahsoftware.net> References: <5611AA30.30605@researchware.com> <5611AEA9.8000407@economy-x-talk.com> <5611B0FB.30006@researchware.com> <5611C414.10005@researchware.com> <5611D59B.4020602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <561269C4.4090300@researchware.com> On 10/4/2015 9:42 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> Mike, >> >> Thanks, but I have logged in and been over that page a zillion time now >> and I see no way to generate and download a manual license file. What am >> I missing? > > On that page there is a link 'Generage LiveCode offline activation > file'. If you click on it you get to select a version and a > passphrase. It's at the top of the puke-green section. Mike, Thanks! I found it. We have our licenses managed under 1 account, but assigned to various individuals. I had to login as an individual instead of the management account to see the activation links. Unfortunately, the popup list only list versions back to LC6.0.0, so I guess I will have to contact LiveCode Support. Paul From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 5 10:09:45 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:09:45 +0100 Subject: ON NOW! Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! In-Reply-To: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> References: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> Hi all, Stick your technical questions here. I'll be trying to answer them all through until midnight. "I Am A LiveCode Engine Developer, AMA" https://goo.gl/DNDpPj Peter On 02/10/2015 20:21, Peter TB Brett wrote: > I'll be doing an "Ask Me Anything" session on reddit during the global > jam. It'll be on Monday 5th October from 15:00 to 22:00 BST (or your > regional equivalent), and you'll be able to find the discussion thread > in the LiveCode subreddit on Monday > afternoon. > > I'll be super happy to (attempt to) answer all of your gnarly technical > questions about LiveCode Builder, how it works, what you can do with it, > what we want you to be able to do with it, and so on. I might answer > some other questions as well depending on how busy things get (and on my > knowledge level)! -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Mon Oct 5 10:25:24 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:25:24 +0200 Subject: ON NOW! Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! In-Reply-To: <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> References: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> Hi, I registered with the Jam yesterday and it said I would get an e-mail at 18:00. I haven't received anything (nor in my spam box). Is it no longer possible to register? I feel I'm missing out on everything now. -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/5/2015 om 16:09 schreef Peter TB Brett: > Hi all, > > Stick your technical questions here. I'll be trying to answer them > all through until midnight. > > "I Am A LiveCode Engine Developer, AMA" > https://goo.gl/DNDpPj > > Peter > > On 02/10/2015 20:21, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> I'll be doing an "Ask Me Anything" session on reddit during the global >> jam. It'll be on Monday 5th October from 15:00 to 22:00 BST (or your >> regional equivalent), and you'll be able to find the discussion thread >> in the LiveCode subreddit on Monday >> afternoon. >> >> I'll be super happy to (attempt to) answer all of your gnarly technical >> questions about LiveCode Builder, how it works, what you can do with it, >> what we want you to be able to do with it, and so on. I might answer >> some other questions as well depending on how busy things get (and on my >> knowledge level)! > From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 5 10:33:17 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 16:33:17 +0200 Subject: ON NOW! Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! In-Reply-To: <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> References: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <3f61f65950c22202cc78f0fcea6a9976@livecode.com> Hi Mark, On 2015-10-05 16:25, Mark Schonewille wrote: > I registered with the Jam yesterday and it said I would get an e-mail > at 18:00. I haven't received anything (nor in my spam box). Is it no > longer possible to register? I feel I'm missing out on everything now. I got Steven (our marketing guy whose been managing the invites) to check and you've definitely been sent an invite email. Can you see if you have an invitation from 'slack' (the messaging system we're using to run the jam) in your spam folder? Thanks! Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 5 10:34:01 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:34:01 +0100 Subject: ON NOW! Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! In-Reply-To: <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> References: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <56128A59.3030608@livecode.com> On 05/10/2015 15:25, Mark Schonewille wrote: > I registered with the Jam yesterday and it said I would get an e-mail at > 18:00. I haven't received anything (nor in my spam box). Is it no longer > possible to register? I feel I'm missing out on everything now. Hi Mark, Did you get an e-mail with your invitation to the Slack team? I checked, and you've definitely been invited. You can log into the Slack instance directly using this URL: https://livecodepublic.slack.com/ I think we have Trevor's webinar coming up in 30 minutes or so. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 10:40:38 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 10:40:38 -0400 Subject: ON NOW! Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! In-Reply-To: <56128A59.3030608@livecode.com> References: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> <56128A59.3030608@livecode.com> Message-ID: <38159B1E-E24B-48C7-9C60-4E5107FD3355@gmail.com> Trevor?s thing is in 20 minutes, and had its own registration. > On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > On 05/10/2015 15:25, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> I registered with the Jam yesterday and it said I would get an e-mail at >> 18:00. I haven't received anything (nor in my spam box). Is it no longer >> possible to register? I feel I'm missing out on everything now. > > Hi Mark, > > Did you get an e-mail with your invitation to the Slack team? I checked, and you've definitely been invited. > > You can log into the Slack instance directly using this URL: > > https://livecodepublic.slack.com/ > > I think we have Trevor's webinar coming up in 30 minutes or so. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Oct 5 10:42:54 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 10:42:54 -0400 Subject: ON NOW! Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! In-Reply-To: <38159B1E-E24B-48C7-9C60-4E5107FD3355@gmail.com> References: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> <56128A59.3030608@livecode.com> <38159B1E-E24B-48C7-9C60-4E5107FD3355@gmail.com> Message-ID: See my other email - I didn't get an invite, either, although I'm sitting on the page, watching... On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > Trevor?s thing is in 20 minutes, and had its own registration. > > > > On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Peter TB Brett > wrote: > > > > On 05/10/2015 15:25, Mark Schonewille wrote: > >> I registered with the Jam yesterday and it said I would get an e-mail at > >> 18:00. I haven't received anything (nor in my spam box). Is it no longer > >> possible to register? I feel I'm missing out on everything now. > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > Did you get an e-mail with your invitation to the Slack team? I > checked, and you've definitely been invited. > > > > You can log into the Slack instance directly using this URL: > > > > https://livecodepublic.slack.com/ > > > > I think we have Trevor's webinar coming up in 30 minutes or so. > > > > Peter > > > > -- > > Dr Peter Brett > > LiveCode Open Source Team > > > > LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 5 12:20:13 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 09:20:13 -0700 Subject: "Slack"? Message-ID: <5612A33D.8060809@fourthworld.com> I'm on Slack.com, but completely mystified as to how to find the #LCGr8 channel. Suggestions? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From klaus at major-k.de Mon Oct 5 12:22:41 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 18:22:41 +0200 Subject: "Slack"? In-Reply-To: <5612A33D.8060809@fourthworld.com> References: <5612A33D.8060809@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <85F63700-DD92-4128-B75C-046C76C576F8@major-k.de> Hi Richard, > Am 05.10.2015 um 18:20 schrieb Richard Gaskin : > > I'm on Slack.com, but completely mystified as to how to find the #LCGr8 channel. that will obviously only work with robots on MARS! :-D Sorry, couldn?t resist. > Suggestions? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 5 12:26:08 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 17:26:08 +0100 Subject: "Slack"? In-Reply-To: <5612A33D.8060809@fourthworld.com> References: <5612A33D.8060809@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5612A4A0.5030502@livecode.com> On 05/10/2015 17:20, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I'm on Slack.com, but completely mystified as to how to find the #LCGr8 > channel. I've sent you an invitation to the livecodepublic team. Let me know if you can't join. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 5 12:28:12 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:28:12 +0000 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <560F26E1.7050708@ahsoftware.net> References: <560EC892.6010200@fourthworld.com> <560ECB43.9000607@researchware.com> <7A64122D-1E44-4A71-ADB0-FD0533AF2DAE@iotecdigital.com> <560F26E1.7050708@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: No I mean IPV6. The protocol is running on almost everything concurrent with IPV4, although IPV4 still seems to be preferred. I see it on every network device created in the last 5 or 6 years, maybe longer. Bob S > On Oct 2, 2015, at 17:52 , Mark Wieder wrote: > > On 10/02/2015 03:14 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > >> Almost everything these days is running IPV6. > > Heh. Now *that* is wishful thinking. > I assume it's a typo and you meant ipv4. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 5 12:30:06 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:30:06 +0000 Subject: scheduling In-Reply-To: References: <8515A313-0039-4303-A218-BAD6692B93A5@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5593257B-737F-40D5-8D80-FF4EA33DCFC0@iotecdigital.com> Sounds like a job for a standalone app that accepts messages. Bob S On Oct 2, 2015, at 19:40 , Mike Bonner > wrote: Probably the easiest way would be to have a send loop running, and see if any jobs (whatever you want to call it) are due yet. If you keep the jobs sorted you can check the next one in queue, and if its not time for it to fire yet, none of them are, so loop. If it IS time, keep checking the list until you hit a job that isn't due yet. then loop again. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: oh, wow. Sorry, Bob, that wasn't what I meant. I meant scheduling messages like as in pendingMessages, like a CRON subsystem From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 13:15:59 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 10:15:59 -0700 Subject: Further regression of the Pirate Code Dots In-Reply-To: <5ECED739-B880-4413-857A-6D6FD7B22ACB@techstrategies.com.au> References: <56100FF5.8070101@livecode.com> <41AE1859-E462-41E0-9AC4-42C129E67255@techstrategies.com.au> <5ECED739-B880-4413-857A-6D6FD7B22ACB@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > Ah, this is with "preOpenStack", not "openStack?. That is why I wasn?t > noticing the issue. > > Using your uploaded stack the hardcoded ?breakpoint? line triggered the > debugger every time before the answer dialog for me. It did miss the red > dot though. > It's been this way for years on OS X; even in 5.5. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 5 13:50:13 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 17:50:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: DP6 more strict? References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> <5611D6CC.10906@ahsoftware.net> <1444031902026-4696888.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: jameshale writes: > Except the alternate syntax can no longer be handled. Right. I was simply saying that I think if the previous alternate was working then maybe it would be best to revert to that state... > Whatever side of the fence one eventually chooses the docs need to match, > and if this stricter mode is kept some flag about it in both the docs and > the release notes is warranted. ...and update the docs to reflect that. But if not, then having the compiler catch the error is fine. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 14:43:35 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:43:35 +0300 Subject: Global Marmalade Message-ID: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> Just downloading the 64-bit Linux Community build-1 of LC 8.0.0 dp7: http://downloads.livecode.com/global-jam/ as my main system was down over the last week I haven't tried anything with DP 6, so this could be interesting. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 14:45:53 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:45:53 +0300 Subject: Global Marmalade In-Reply-To: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> On 05/10/15 21:43, Richmond wrote: > Just downloading the 64-bit Linux Community build-1 of LC 8.0.0 dp7: > > http://downloads.livecode.com/global-jam/ > > as my main system was down over the last week I haven't tried anything > with DP 6, so this could be interesting. > > Richmond. Installed and started up with the Ayn Rand option [ You Only ] with no obvious problem at all. Xubuntu 14.04.4 64-bit R. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 14:49:55 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:49:55 +0300 Subject: Global Marmalade In-Reply-To: <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> On 05/10/15 21:45, Richmond wrote: > On 05/10/15 21:43, Richmond wrote: >> Just downloading the 64-bit Linux Community build-1 of LC 8.0.0 dp7: >> >> http://downloads.livecode.com/global-jam/ >> >> as my main system was down over the last week I haven't tried >> anything with DP 6, so this could be interesting. >> >> Richmond. > > > Installed and started up with the Ayn Rand option [ You Only ] with no > obvious problem at all. > > Xubuntu 14.04.4 64-bit > > R. Well cheesed-off to see that the Application Browser has been dropped from LiveCode 8: it shows just how little I have done with 8.0.0 that I didn't see that before: I have always used the Application Browser intensively. I wonder if it is possible to port the LC 7 App Browser to LC 8 ??? R. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 14:57:09 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:57:09 +0300 Subject: Global Marmalade In-Reply-To: <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5612C805.5000601@gmail.com> On 05/10/15 21:49, Richmond wrote: > On 05/10/15 21:45, Richmond wrote: >> On 05/10/15 21:43, Richmond wrote: >>> Just downloading the 64-bit Linux Community build-1 of LC 8.0.0 dp7: >>> >>> http://downloads.livecode.com/global-jam/ >>> >>> as my main system was down over the last week I haven't tried >>> anything with DP 6, so this could be interesting. >>> >>> Richmond. >> >> >> Installed and started up with the Ayn Rand option [ You Only ] with >> no obvious problem at all. >> >> Xubuntu 14.04.4 64-bit >> >> R. > > Well cheesed-off to see that the Application Browser has been dropped > from LiveCode 8: > > it shows just how little I have done with 8.0.0 that I didn't see that > before: I have always used the > Application Browser intensively. > > I wonder if it is possible to port the LC 7 App Browser to LC 8 ??? > > R. Ha, Ha, Ha: I'm going bonkers: I went over to LC 7.1 and attached the Application Browser to an empty stack called "AppB" and exported it. Then I opened the DP7 build 1 version to import the App Browser, and, what happens? A copy of the App Browser appears, even though one does not show up in the menus of the IDE. So, does that mean the Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8.*.*, just made inaccessible via the menu system? That seems bl**dy silly; it either (preferably) should be there, and accessible, or it should be done away with. R. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 15:36:31 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:36:31 +0300 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 Message-ID: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> 1. I seem unable to GROUP a single object. This is a real pain if one wants to do an IMPORT SNAPSHOT with a drop shadow. Importing the button as a button, rather than within its own group means one loses a DROP SHADOW or a GLOW. 2. The Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8, but is inaccessible from the Menus in the IDE. As I use the Application Browser a lot of the time I have written a 'Patch Stack" that will place a button on the revMenuBar stack to access it: File and screenshots. http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 Love, Richmond. From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 15:50:12 2015 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:50:12 +0300 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> References: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Richmond, Can you group a single object if clicking on the "Group" button in the toolbar? It is a known issue (and now fixed for the next build) that grouping controls does not work from menu or shortcuts, but does work when using the "Group" button in the toolbar: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16071 Best regards, Panos -- On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 10:36 PM, Richmond wrote: > 1. I seem unable to GROUP a single object. > > This is a real pain if one wants to do an IMPORT SNAPSHOT with a drop > shadow. > > Importing the button as a button, rather than within its own group means > one loses > a DROP SHADOW or a GLOW. > > 2. The Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8, but is inaccessible > from the Menus in the IDE. > > As I use the Application Browser a lot of the time I have written a 'Patch > Stack" that will place a button > on the revMenuBar stack to access it: > > File and screenshots. > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 > > Love, Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 15:52:06 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:52:06 +0300 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5612D4E6.8020100@gmail.com> On 05/10/15 22:50, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Hi Richmond, > > Can you group a single object if clicking on the "Group" button in the > toolbar? It is a known issue (and now fixed for the next build) that > grouping controls does not work from menu or shortcuts, but does work when > using the "Group" button in the toolbar: > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16071 > > Best regards, > Panos Yes, got it. Thank you so much for a speedy response. Richmond. > -- > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 10:36 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> 1. I seem unable to GROUP a single object. >> >> This is a real pain if one wants to do an IMPORT SNAPSHOT with a drop >> shadow. >> >> Importing the button as a button, rather than within its own group means >> one loses >> a DROP SHADOW or a GLOW. >> >> 2. The Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8, but is inaccessible >> from the Menus in the IDE. >> >> As I use the Application Browser a lot of the time I have written a 'Patch >> Stack" that will place a button >> on the revMenuBar stack to access it: >> >> File and screenshots. >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >> >> Love, Richmond. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 16:28:00 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 23:28:00 +0300 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> References: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5612DD50.5060905@gmail.com> On 05/10/15 22:36, Richmond wrote: > 1. I seem unable to GROUP a single object. > > This is a real pain if one wants to do an IMPORT SNAPSHOT with a drop > shadow. > > Importing the button as a button, rather than within its own group > means one loses > a DROP SHADOW or a GLOW. > > 2. The Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8, but is > inaccessible from the Menus in the IDE. > > As I use the Application Browser a lot of the time I have written a > 'Patch Stack" that will place a button > on the revMenuBar stack to access it: > > File and screenshots. > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 > > Love, Richmond. As modifications to the LiveCode 8.*.*. revMenuBar stack don't seem to "stick" between restarts [or, put another way, I haven't worked out how to manage that yet] I am also offering a palette with a button to call the Application Browser instead: same place as the Patch . . . Love, Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Mon Oct 5 16:53:11 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:53:11 +0200 Subject: ON NOW! Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! In-Reply-To: <56128A59.3030608@livecode.com> References: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> <56128A59.3030608@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5612E337.50408@economy-x-talk.com> No invite and my e-mail address is unknown to slack. -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/5/2015 om 16:34 schreef Peter TB Brett: > On 05/10/2015 15:25, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> I registered with the Jam yesterday and it said I would get an e-mail at >> 18:00. I haven't received anything (nor in my spam box). Is it no longer >> possible to register? I feel I'm missing out on everything now. > > Hi Mark, > > Did you get an e-mail with your invitation to the Slack team? I > checked, and you've definitely been invited. > > You can log into the Slack instance directly using this URL: > > https://livecodepublic.slack.com/ > > I think we have Trevor's webinar coming up in 30 minutes or so. > > Peter > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Oct 5 16:59:34 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:59:34 -0400 Subject: "Slack"? In-Reply-To: <5612A4A0.5030502@livecode.com> References: <5612A33D.8060809@fourthworld.com> <5612A4A0.5030502@livecode.com> Message-ID: I tried https://livecodepublic.slack.com/ Is this correct? It says I am not signed up. Roger EllerGraphics Systems Analyst 803 North Maple StreetP: 864.967.1625Simpsonville, SC 29681C: 864.908.0337 SealedAir.com Roger.E.Eller at SealedAir.com On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 05/10/2015 17:20, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> I'm on Slack.com, but completely mystified as to how to find the #LCGr8 >> channel. >> > > I've sent you an invitation to the livecodepublic team. Let me know if > you can't join. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 17:06:55 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 00:06:55 +0300 Subject: "Slack"? In-Reply-To: References: <5612A33D.8060809@fourthworld.com> <5612A4A0.5030502@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5612E66F.9090708@gmail.com> On 05/10/15 23:59, Roger Eller wrote: > I tried https://livecodepublic.slack.com/ > > Is this correct? It says I am not signed up. > > > > Roger EllerGraphics Systems Analyst > > Everything seems a bit on the slack side. Never mind, I'm having "private fun" catching up with things about LiveCode 8 I feel are not particularly beneficial: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 Richmond. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 5 17:18:31 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:18:31 -0500 Subject: Global Marmalade In-Reply-To: <5612C805.5000601@gmail.com> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> <5612C805.5000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/5/2015 1:57 PM, Richmond wrote: > So, does that mean the Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8.*.*, > just made inaccessible via the menu system? > > That seems bl**dy silly; it either (preferably) should be there, and > accessible, or it should be done away with. If it's done away with I will not be able to move to LC 8 at all. I tried to use the Project Browser for a couple of days when it first appeared and it was unusable with my current project. There is far too much clutter when working with anything other than the simplest of stacks, and if you have dozens open at the same time it is impossible to quickly locate what you need. I need the simple, hierarchical listing that the App Browser uses. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 17:22:09 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 00:22:09 +0300 Subject: Global Marmalade In-Reply-To: <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> <5612C805.5000601@gmail.com> <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5612EA01.4050508@gmail.com> On 06/10/15 00:18, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/5/2015 1:57 PM, Richmond wrote: >> So, does that mean the Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8.*.*, >> just made inaccessible via the menu system? >> >> That seems bl**dy silly; it either (preferably) should be there, and >> accessible, or it should be done away with. > > If it's done away with I will not be able to move to LC 8 at all. I > tried to use the Project Browser for a couple of days when it first > appeared and it was unusable with my current project. There is far too > much clutter when working with anything other than the simplest of > stacks, and if you have dozens open at the same time it is impossible > to quickly locate what you need. > > I need the simple, hierarchical listing that the App Browser uses. > +1 R. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 5 17:56:22 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 14:56:22 -0700 Subject: Four more reports closed as "Resolved - Fixed" Message-ID: <5612F206.8000707@fourthworld.com> I've been going through outstanding reports I'd submitted to the bug DB, testing them in both the current product version 7.1 and future version 8.0dp6. I'm pleased to report that at least four of those were found to have already been fixed by the team in the course of other fixes, so I was able to close them without further effort needed. One for good reason for a bug sprint like this is that if each of us checks our outstanding bugs I'll bet you'll find at least a few that have already been addressed. The less noise we have in the bug queue, the easier it is for the team to focus on the items that truly need their attention. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 5 17:59:58 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:59:58 +0000 Subject: Global Marmalade In-Reply-To: <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> <5612C805.5000601@gmail.com> <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: +10 Bob S On Oct 5, 2015, at 14:18 , J. Landman Gay > wrote: If it's done away with I will not be able to move to LC 8 at all. I tried to use the Project Browser for a couple of days when it first appeared and it was unusable with my current project. There is far too much clutter when working with anything other than the simplest of stacks, and if you have dozens open at the same time it is impossible to quickly locate what you need. I need the simple, hierarchical listing that the App Browser uses. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay From revdev at pdslabs.net Mon Oct 5 18:14:43 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:14:43 -0700 Subject: Global Marmalade In-Reply-To: <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> <5612C805.5000601@gmail.com> <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5612F653.8010007@pdslabs.net> My experience is the same. I rely heavily on the App Browser in my work, for the exact same reasons Jacque states below. Phil Davis On 10/5/15 2:18 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/5/2015 1:57 PM, Richmond wrote: >> So, does that mean the Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8.*.*, >> just made inaccessible via the menu system? >> >> That seems bl**dy silly; it either (preferably) should be there, and >> accessible, or it should be done away with. > > If it's done away with I will not be able to move to LC 8 at all. I > tried to use the Project Browser for a couple of days when it first > appeared and it was unusable with my current project. There is far too > much clutter when working with anything other than the simplest of > stacks, and if you have dozens open at the same time it is impossible > to quickly locate what you need. > > I need the simple, hierarchical listing that the App Browser uses. > -- Phil Davis From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Oct 5 18:25:31 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 18:25:31 -0400 Subject: Emulate iOS Mobile Pick Wheel on Mac OS X with LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> <5612C805.5000601@gmail.com> <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi there, I have an iOS program that uses a really nice Mobile Pick Wheel to enable the user to pick 7 out of 42 possible combinations. How could I best emulate this Pick Wheel using LiveCode for a Mac OS X environment? Should I use 7 option menu LiveCode objects each with 6 items? Should I build a custom control? Ideas? Suggestions? Thanks, Rick From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Oct 5 18:29:13 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 18:29:13 -0400 Subject: Global Marmalade In-Reply-To: <5612F653.8010007@pdslabs.net> References: <5612C4D7.7060601@gmail.com> <5612C561.3080504@gmail.com> <5612C653.40005@gmail.com> <5612C805.5000601@gmail.com> <5612E927.3020802@hyperactivesw.com> <5612F653.8010007@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <41573BD0-546A-437D-BFC3-626576E95B03@all-auctions.com> I think everyone has agreed that the App Browser has to indeed work! I can?t think that the development team would think otherwise regarding this important capability. It?s a bug, and needs to be fixed. Just my +1 here. ;-) Rick > On Oct 5, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Phil Davis wrote: > > My experience is the same. I rely heavily on the App Browser in my work, for the exact same reasons Jacque states below. > > Phil Davis > > > On 10/5/15 2:18 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> On 10/5/2015 1:57 PM, Richmond wrote: >>> So, does that mean the Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8.*.*, >>> just made inaccessible via the menu system? >>> >>> That seems bl**dy silly; it either (preferably) should be there, and >>> accessible, or it should be done away with. >> >> If it's done away with I will not be able to move to LC 8 at all. I tried to use the Project Browser for a couple of days when it first appeared and it was unusable with my current project. There is far too much clutter when working with anything other than the simplest of stacks, and if you have dozens open at the same time it is impossible to quickly locate what you need. >> >> I need the simple, hierarchical listing that the App Browser uses. >> > > -- > Phil Davis > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Mon Oct 5 18:39:01 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 00:39:01 +0200 Subject: ON NOW! Ask me about LiveCode Builder during the Global Jam! In-Reply-To: <5612E337.50408@economy-x-talk.com> References: <6724ec95f226837c7b16144ae825cb49@livecode.com> <561284A9.4090002@livecode.com> <56128854.2010503@economy-x-talk.com> <56128A59.3030608@livecode.com> <5612E337.50408@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <5612FC05.5080408@economy-x-talk.com> I managed to get in :-) -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/5/2015 om 22:53 schreef Mark Schonewille: > No invite and my e-mail address is unknown to slack. > > -- > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 10/5/2015 om 16:34 schreef Peter TB Brett: >> On 05/10/2015 15:25, Mark Schonewille wrote: >>> I registered with the Jam yesterday and it said I would get an >>> e-mail at >>> 18:00. I haven't received anything (nor in my spam box). Is it no >>> longer >>> possible to register? I feel I'm missing out on everything now. >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> Did you get an e-mail with your invitation to the Slack team? I >> checked, and you've definitely been invited. >> >> You can log into the Slack instance directly using this URL: >> >> https://livecodepublic.slack.com/ >> >> I think we have Trevor's webinar coming up in 30 minutes or so. >> >> Peter >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Oct 5 18:59:43 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 15:59:43 -0700 Subject: Four more reports closed as "Resolved - Fixed" In-Reply-To: <5612F206.8000707@fourthworld.com> References: <5612F206.8000707@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard: There used to be a "Show My Bugs" button or link in LQCC, which I can't seem to find anymore. How do we display a list of the bugs we've reported? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/5/15, 2:56 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin" wrote: >I've been going through outstanding reports I'd submitted to the bug DB, >testing them in both the current product version 7.1 and future version >8.0dp6. > >I'm pleased to report that at least four of those were found to have >already been fixed by the team in the course of other fixes, so I was >able to close them without further effort needed. > >One for good reason for a bug sprint like this is that if each of us >checks our outstanding bugs I'll bet you'll find at least a few that >have already been addressed. > >The less noise we have in the bug queue, the easier it is for the team >to focus on the items that truly need their attention. > >-- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Mon Oct 5 20:16:07 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 17:16:07 -0700 Subject: Four more reports closed as "Resolved - Fixed" In-Reply-To: References: <5612F206.8000707@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <468D3FAA-404A-42B2-98F2-CE4B25EA9EB3@livecode.org> > On 5 Oct 2015, at 15:59, Scott Rossi wrote: > > How do we display a list of the bugs we've reported? ?Search by People? seems to work OK. I found 39 bugs reported by tactilemedia. Paul From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Mon Oct 5 20:23:36 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 02:23:36 +0200 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode meeting in the Netherlands Message-ID: <56131488.2080206@economy-x-talk.com> Hi everyone, (zie onder voor de Nederlandse versie van dit bericht) On Friday 9th October 2015, a LiveCode meeting is organised. At this meeting, participants will introduce their own projects and products, from amateur to professional, from beginner to advanced. We'll probably make more announcements, about talks or presentations, tomorrow. Participants will get an opportunity to experiment with Arduino. For those who aren't too technical, we'll a ?workshop? about creating capacitive buttons for Arduino (a perfect beginners' project). If you're more experienced with electronics, we'll have some materials available to experiment with (resistors, cables, LEDs, motors, etc.) If you have an Arduino, please bring it with you. During the meeting, I'll raffle off a copy of ?Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner? and a license for Roger Wagner's HyperStudio. Go to http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com for more information about the book and to http://www.hyperstudio.com for more information about HyperStudio. You also might want to visit http://www.hyperduino.com Op de bijeenkomst zal ik een exemplaar van ?Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner? en een licentie voor Roger Wagners HyperStudio verloten. Go naar http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com voor meer informatie over het boek en http://www.hyperstudio.com voor meer informatie over HyperStudio. Wellicht wil je ook de website http://www.hyperduino.com bekijken. Entrance is free. All consumptions are on your own account. After the meeting, we'll go somewhere for dinner and you can join if you like. Date and time: 9th October 2015, from 12:00 until 16:00 Place: Apollo Hotel , Stationsplein 14, Breda, the Netherlands Registration: contact support at economy-x-talk.com Op vrijdag 9 oktober 2015 wordt er een LiveCode-bijeenkomst georganiseerd. Op deze bijeenkomst zullen deelnemers hun projecten of producten laten zien, van amateur tot professional, van beginner tot gevorderd. We zullen daar waarschijnlijk morgen meer informatie over kunnen geven. Deelnemers krijgen de mogelijkheid met Arduino te experimenteren. Wie niet zo technische is kan een aan ?workshop? over het maken van capacitieve buttons meedoen (een prima project voor beginners). Als je wat meer ervaring met electronica hebt, hebben we wat materiaal beschikbaar om mee te experimenteren (weerstanden, kabels, LED's, motoren, enz.) Als je zelf een Arduino hebt, neem hem dan a.u.b. mee. Op de bijeenkomst zal ik een exemplaar van ?Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner? en een licentie voor Roger Wagners HyperStudio verloten. Go naar http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com voor meer informatie over het boek en http://www.hyperstudio.com voor meer informatie over HyperStudio. Wellicht wil je ook de website http://www.hyperduino.com bekijken. Toegang gratis. Alle consumpties zijn voor eigen rekening. Na de bijeenkomst zullen we, met eenieder die dat ook wil, ergens gaan eten. Datum en tijd: 9 oktober 2015, van 12:00 tot 16:00 plaats: Apollo Hotel, Stationsplein 14, Breda Registratie: neem contact op met support at economy-x-talk.com -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com From skip at magicgate.com Mon Oct 5 21:25:49 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:25:49 -0400 Subject: Possible use of this API? Message-ID: Can somebody take a quick look at this API and determine if I might be able to utilize it via LC calls? http://strava.github.io/api/ It seems like their authentication process actually loads a webpage and then redirects the user to another redirected, specified web location. I am just trying to retrieve (read-only) data from individual athletes. Maybe I am missing something here. Any insight and your expertise is ALWAYS appreciated! SKIP From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 5 21:47:54 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 18:47:54 -0700 Subject: [ANN]SoCal LiveCode Meeting, Oct 1 In-Reply-To: <376513fafb6ff35ad6f5aeb656786ad2@livecode.com> References: <376513fafb6ff35ad6f5aeb656786ad2@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5613284A.90401@fourthworld.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-09-30 06:23, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> The next meeting of the SoCal LiveCode User Group is coming up >> Thursday, October 1, at 7PM in Pasadena - details in the forums: >> >> > > If you give me at least a week's warning in future, I'll make sure that > it appears in the "events" section of This Week in LiveCode! Thanks, Peter. For several years now our group meets on the first Thursday of each month. The only times we've missed a meeting is when the first Thursday conflicts with a major holiday (sometimes in July for US Independence Day), or when Pasadena is in a declared state of emergency (happened once with hurricane-level winds in Dec '11). Details for each meeting and other local events of interest to the community are in the SoCal User Group section of the User Groups and Gatherings forum: RSS: Our next meeting will be Nov 5. Note for other user group managers: if you have an ongoing group and would like a subsection of the User Groups and Gatherings forum just drop me a note at the address below and I'll set it up for you. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 5 21:52:48 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 18:52:48 -0700 Subject: Paths in Mac standalone headache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56132970.6080609@fourthworld.com> John Dixon wrote: > Would this help you in setting the defaultfolder > > on preOpenStack > set itemDel to "/" > set the defaultfolder to item 1 to -2 of \ (the effective fileName of this stack) > end preOpenStack We've become so used to defaultFolder working that most of us don't do as much error-checking as we should. A lot of us spend way too much time last year tracking down what we thought were recursion limits in a directory walker when the culprit was simply a defaultFolder assignment that didn't take. To rule that out here I'd add a check of the result with sysError: on preOpenStack set itemDel to "/" set the defaultfolder to item 1 to -2 of \ (the effective fileName of this stack) if the result is not empty then answer "Couldn't set defaultfolder: "& \ the result &" ("& sysError()&")" end if end preOpenStack You may never need it, but if there's a reason that's failing at least you'll know what the OS thinks it is. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 5 22:00:48 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 13:00:48 +1100 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <5612DD50.5060905@gmail.com> References: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> <5612DD50.5060905@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On 6 Oct 2015, at 7:28 am, Richmond wrote: > > As modifications to the LiveCode 8.*.*. revMenuBar stack don't seem to "stick" between restarts > > [or, put another way, I haven't worked out how to manage that yet] > > I am also offering a palette with a button to call the Application Browser instead: > > same place as the Patch . . . It is now a script only stack that has it?s UI built on startup so you need to add things each time you open LC. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Oct 5 22:05:37 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:05:37 -0400 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> <5612DD50.5060905@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is that why LC8 takes longer to open? On Oct 5, 2015 10:01 PM, "Monte Goulding" wrote: > > > On 6 Oct 2015, at 7:28 am, Richmond wrote: > > > > As modifications to the LiveCode 8.*.*. revMenuBar stack don't seem to > "stick" between restarts > > > > [or, put another way, I haven't worked out how to manage that yet] > > > > I am also offering a palette with a button to call the Application > Browser instead: > > > > same place as the Patch . . . > > It is now a script only stack that has it?s UI built on startup so you > need to add things each time you open LC. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 5 22:11:25 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 13:11:25 +1100 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> <5612DD50.5060905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2B91B5CB-D23E-468A-BE57-A771EA70F4BE@sweattechnologies.com> > On 6 Oct 2015, at 1:05 pm, Roger Eller wrote: > > Is that why LC8 takes longer to open? Could be, I think most of it is because of the docs. @livecodeali If this is slowing the load of the load of IDE a lot then one thing you could do is switch script only stacks to binary stacks during your release builds. At that point there?s no longer any benefit to them to being in a mergable file format. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 5 22:15:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:15:39 -0700 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56132ECB.9000100@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > It is now a script only stack that has it?s UI built on startup so > you need to add things each time you open LC. I've been writing IDE patchers for myself for months to tidy up things that had been sitting in the bug queue for a while (one of which got fixed today), and I've always written them to apply the patches on startup. The nice thing about this approach is that I can have what I want without making permanent changes to the IDE. If I need to revert the IDE to its shipping state I just quit, remove my patcher plugin, and restart. I haven't had time to read the IDE scripts in v8 - what exactly is it doing on boot? Is it copying parts from some resource stack, or is there some really long script somewhere to create every control and set every property? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 5 22:35:21 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 13:35:21 +1100 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <56132ECB.9000100@fourthworld.com> References: <56132ECB.9000100@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 6 Oct 2015, at 1:15 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > some really long script somewhere to create every control and set every property? ^ this From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 5 22:54:12 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:54:12 -0700 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561337D4.1090004@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > On 6 Oct 2015, at 1:15 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> some really long script somewhere to create every control and >> set every property? > > ^ this Where can I read that? I wonder what the break-even ROI calculation for that effort looks like.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 5 23:11:31 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 20:11:31 -0700 Subject: Externals SDK Message-ID: <56133BE3.1000503@fourthworld.com> I've been all over the livecode.com site looking for the Externals SDK, and came up empty. Anyone here know where I can find it? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 5 23:16:25 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 14:16:25 +1100 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <561337D4.1090004@fourthworld.com> References: <561337D4.1090004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4C99B8AE-4949-4177-A640-5D2121C548A9@sweattechnologies.com> > On 6 Oct 2015, at 1:54 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Where can I read that? It?s all in the script of stack revMenubar From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 23:22:11 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:22:11 -0600 Subject: Externals SDK In-Reply-To: <56133BE3.1000503@fourthworld.com> References: <56133BE3.1000503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: scroll to the bottom of the downloads page. On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I've been all over the livecode.com site looking for the Externals SDK, > and came up empty. > > Anyone here know where I can find it? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 23:25:21 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:25:21 -0600 Subject: Externals SDK In-Reply-To: References: <56133BE3.1000503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Or here: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/sdk/LiveCodeSDK-R14.zip for r14, which is the most recent. (unless I misunderstand) On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > scroll to the bottom of the downloads page. > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> I've been all over the livecode.com site looking for the Externals SDK, >> and came up empty. >> >> Anyone here know where I can find it? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 5 23:37:11 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 20:37:11 -0700 Subject: Externals SDK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561341E7.3040305@fourthworld.com> Mike Bonner wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> I've been all over the livecode.com site looking for the Externals >> SDK, and came up empty. >> >> Anyone here know where I can find it? > > scroll to the bottom of the downloads page. Got it - thanks, Mike! 2011? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 23:47:51 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:47:51 -0600 Subject: Externals SDK In-Reply-To: <561341E7.3040305@fourthworld.com> References: <561341E7.3040305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Think 2011 is the oldest version there. It starts at 1, then all the others are named v2, v3 etc. Think v14 is the hights. REALLY wish dates were shown, since there is a slight chance that the alternate version naming convention is the most recent. (but like I say, that one is declared a 1, then its 2 and up) On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Bonner wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> I've been all over the livecode.com site looking for the Externals > >> SDK, and came up empty. > >> > >> Anyone here know where I can find it? > > > > scroll to the bottom of the downloads page. > > Got it - thanks, Mike! > > 2011? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From martyknappster at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 00:06:57 2015 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:06:57 -0700 Subject: Data grid lines Message-ID: <561348E1.8000908@knappstersolutions.com> I'm building a data grid (table style) but instead of having alternate row colors, I'd just like a line at the bottom of each row that has data. My users will be able to customize various parts of the data grid and then, in most cases, it will be printed on a B&W laser printer. So I need a flexible solution. It also needs to be for a table style and not form style grid. Is there a way to get a horizontal line for each row? -- Best regards, Marty Knapp From irog at mac.com Tue Oct 6 00:35:37 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 21:35:37 -0700 Subject: LiveCode and Yosemite (re: Screen Flashing) In-Reply-To: References: <6F0038DC-93D6-4F42-B2BF-C247F2C42C9B@byu.edu> <16FB8418-0A1C-487B-8FFE-59595253A69C@mac.com> <1B1914E2-2F39-48DA-8F67-FC63298AEF7E@mac.com> Message-ID: Hey Devin, Looks like updating to El Capitan solved my problems with screen flashing . . . as I suspected. Let the good times roll!! Cheers, Roger > On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > > Thanks, Roger. I?ve added my comments to the bug report. It might get more attention if you changed the version to 7.0.6 or even the latest 7.1 RC, assuming the bug still appears there. > > Devin > > >> On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Roger Guay wrote: >> >> I filed a bug report #14036 with this sample stack soon after the release of Yosemite: >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/48f5ietxwrm681f/BugReport.livecode?dl=0 >> >> It was acknowledged as having been received, but no action on it AFAIK. Moreover, the last time I looked, I could not find 14036 in the queue. >> >> Good luck!! I?m hoping that the upcoming OS X will solve the problem. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> >> >> >> >>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:35 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >>> >>> Roger and Peter, >>> >>> Yes, and since I posted my original question I?ve been noticing flickering in Yosemite in similar circumstances. I?ll try to develop a recipe and submit a bug report. In the meantime, if anyone beats me to it, post the bug report number back here and I?ll add a comment. >>> >>> Devin >>> >>>> On Sep 10, 2015, at 9:52 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >>>> >>>> I see something similar in LC 7, including 7.1 dp 2, in IDE. >>>> >>>> I see flickering as the mouse moves over a field which sets the background color of the line: >>>> >>>> on mouseMove >>>> if the mouseLine is not empty then >>>> set the backgroundColor of the mouseLine() to 235,231,237 >>>> end if >>>> end mouseMove >>>> >>>> >>>> Peter Bogdanoff >>>> UCLA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:01 PM, Roger Guay wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I and a few others have seen this problem since the release of Yosemite.And, there?s been no improvement with any of the stable releases of LC. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> - I see screen flickering during the execution of visual effects or on buttons with various icon image states. For example on a button that has a ?resting? icon and a hover icon there is some screen flickering on the button when I move my mouse cursor to it. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> Devin Asay >>> Office of Digital Humanities >>> Brigham Young University >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 6 02:33:56 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 08:33:56 +0200 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <2B91B5CB-D23E-468A-BE57-A771EA70F4BE@sweattechnologies.com> References: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> <5612DD50.5060905@gmail.com> <2B91B5CB-D23E-468A-BE57-A771EA70F4BE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <6c56f398945226751e85dafd22e33a8d@livecode.com> On 2015-10-06 04:11, Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 6 Oct 2015, at 1:05 pm, Roger Eller >> wrote: >> >> Is that why LC8 takes longer to open? > > Could be, I think most of it is because of the docs. This is the most likely explanation - the docs are merged together on startup (so that they can be added to by third-parties easily). > @livecodeali If this is slowing the load of the load of IDE a lot then > one thing you could do is switch script only stacks to binary stacks > during your release builds. At that point there?s no longer any > benefit to them to being in a mergable file format. Script only stacks have no effect on load time - they are just a script which is set as the stack script of a stack when loaded. I also doubt that (given the small number of controls involved) the creation of UI elements on-the-fly is having any measurable effect. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 6 02:39:18 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 08:39:18 +0200 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <561337D4.1090004@fourthworld.com> References: <561337D4.1090004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-06 04:54, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 6 Oct 2015, at 1:15 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> some really long script somewhere to create every control and >>> set every property? >> >> ^ this > > Where can I read that? > > I wonder what the break-even ROI calculation for that effort looks > like.... Exceptionally good. We moved to dynamically built menus in the revMenuBar a long time ago, and as a result it became a great deal easier to maintain (and a lot of bugs were fixed in the transition) - this is essentially an extension of that work. Having the principal components generated on-the-fly means that they can become more customizable. For example, you've pointed out you'd like to add a button to the revMenuBar to pop up various components. With the old model, you'd have to patch the revMenuBar yourself, and each time we do an update you need to update your patch. The new way of doing things means that it should be relatively straightforward to enable the menubar buttons to be customizable (a bit like the 'Toolbar Editor' you get on Mac in many apps). At the moment, the script is basically the refactored code from the stack based revMenuBar to be but in a neater structure (the code for various things was spread out, and in some cases very difficult to see how changes should be made). If you would be interested in helping to add the relevant hooks to the revMenuBar to make it customizable based on user preference then it is probably worth starting a discussion on such a thing. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 6 03:07:36 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 09:07:36 +0200 Subject: DP6 more =?UTF-8?Q?strict=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1444031902026-4696888.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> <5611D6CC.10906@ahsoftware.net> <1444031902026-4696888.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <40f290bc817132505a48876857173e0a@livecode.com> On 2015-10-05 09:58, jameshale wrote: > Except the alternate syntax can no longer be handled. The alternate syntaxes in many cases don't necessarily do what you think. In your case: repeat with x = 1 to 5 repeat for x = 1 to 5 Is certainly quit clear - one can immediately see what they should do quite unambiguously. My personal feeling (having observed people's interaction with the language for a long time) is that variant forms of syntax which do the same thing actually make things harder to learn and understand - it makes the dictionary larger and increases the vocabulary for no real benefit. Other forms which are no longer allowed are things like: repeat with x = 1 to 5 with messages This has no function at all - the 'with messages' is ignored - indeed I think a couple of people have found bugs in their scripts as a result. Whilst strictness might reduce 'personal expression' to some extent, I do think it helps the learning and remembering process. It means everyone uses the same forms to do the same things - making reading each others code, and helping each other out easier. > Whatever side of the fence one eventually chooses the docs need to > match, > and if this stricter mode is kept some flag about it in both the docs > and > the release notes is warranted. I will happily hold my hands up and say that this was an element of social engineering on my part. For a long time I've stopped any changes which make syntax stricter from being attended to - precisely because of the concern of breaking scripts. However, this position has always been based on abstract argument rather than direct data thus this time round I decided to let this change go through, without any sort of fanfare - just to see if it truly was a problem. If the change is kept then we will make sure it is noted much more clearly in a future build. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Oct 6 05:52:22 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 11:52:22 +0200 Subject: Why is the visible size of option/push buttons different? Message-ID: <004f01d1001c$b323fee0$196bfca0$@kestner.de> Hello, LC 6.7/7.0 on Windows. When putting a standard option button and a push button from the palette side by side onto a card the visible size of the push button always is 2 px smaller, when having both button borders set to 3D. In other words you have to make the push button 2px larger as the option button to get both the same look. When unchecking threeD border of the push buttons, it gets the same size as the option button (with a different border look). Is this a bug, a wanted behavior or some compatibility heritage from old days? Tiemo From jana.doughty at livecode.com Tue Oct 6 11:28:39 2015 From: jana.doughty at livecode.com (Jana Doughty) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 17:28:39 +0200 Subject: How Film Sets and Coding Are Equally Important Message-ID: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Hi All, We had a Hollywood moment at LiveCode this week. The Secret Agent - a new TV series coming to you in 2016 - was filming on our street! It made us think about how film and coding are both expressions of making something out of nothing. We want to empower everyone to create something out of nothing, which is why we're joining the Hour of Code movement later this fall. You can read about us on set and preparing the Hour of Code tutorial here: https://livecode.com/how-film-sets-and-coding-are-equally-important/ Thanks! Jana From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Oct 6 11:52:30 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:52:30 -0700 Subject: DP6 more strict? In-Reply-To: <40f290bc817132505a48876857173e0a@livecode.com> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> <5611D6CC.10906@ahsoftware.net> <1444031902026-4696888.post@n4.nabble.com> <40f290bc817132505a48876857173e0a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5613EE3E.9010204@ahsoftware.net> On 10/06/2015 12:07 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > My personal feeling (having observed people's interaction with the > language for a long time) is that variant forms of syntax which do the > same thing actually make things harder to learn and understand - it > makes the dictionary larger and increases the vocabulary for no real > benefit. I believe Churchill said the same thing about Basic English . > > Other forms which are no longer allowed are things like: > > repeat with x = 1 to 5 with messages > > This has no function at all - the 'with messages' is ignored - indeed I > think a couple of people have found bugs in their scripts as a result. Yeah. that would be me. Thank you for fixing that one. I do like having the compiler tell me when I've done something stupid. > > Whilst strictness might reduce 'personal expression' to some extent, I > do think it helps the learning and remembering process. It means > everyone uses the same forms to do the same things - making reading each > others code, and helping each other out easier. OK - playing Devil's Advocate here... I think one of the strengths of the xtalk language is that there may be many different paths to the solution of any given problem. I've learned a lot, and continue to do so, by seeing how other people approach issues differently from the way I would. So this artificial restriction cuts down on exploratory coding and places limits on the creative process of algorithm development. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 6 11:56:20 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 17:56:20 +0200 Subject: DP6 more =?UTF-8?Q?strict=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5613EE3E.9010204@ahsoftware.net> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> <5611D6CC.10906@ahsoftware.net> <1444031902026-4696888.post@n4.nabble.com> <40f290bc817132505a48876857173e0a@livecode.com> <5613EE3E.9010204@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <2740526e4aa55cdd23dc88089c9d29d0@livecode.com> On 2015-10-06 17:52, Mark Wieder wrote: > OK - playing Devil's Advocate here... I think one of the strengths of > the xtalk language is that there may be many different paths to the > solution of any given problem. I've learned a lot, and continue to do > so, by seeing how other people approach issues differently from the > way I would. So this artificial restriction cuts down on exploratory > coding and places limits on the creative process of algorithm > development. This might well be true *if* there had been explicit decisions about the syntactic forms that were allowed. However, this is not the case - the fact the parser is lax is a side-effect of implementation rather than constructed intent. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 13:22:51 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 20:22:51 +0300 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> References: <5612D13F.1030702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5614036B.6050002@gmail.com> On 05/10/15 22:36, Richmond wrote: > 1. I seem unable to GROUP a single object. > > This is a real pain if one wants to do an IMPORT SNAPSHOT with a drop > shadow. > > Importing the button as a button, rather than within its own group > means one loses > a DROP SHADOW or a GLOW. > > 2. The Application Browser is present in LiveCode 8, but is > inaccessible from the Menus in the IDE. > > As I use the Application Browser a lot of the time I have written a > 'Patch Stack" that will place a button > on the revMenuBar stack to access it: > > File and screenshots. > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 > > Love, Richmond. Having spent the day working: Hey, mainly spent threading coloured beads with the 4-7 year old crowd: easily one of the most pleasant ways to make one's living! I returned home to see LiveCode 8.0.0. DP7 build 2, but as the *Application Browser* was still *inaccessible* from the menuBar all I did was blow a big, wet, noisy raspberry at the monitor. Anyway, having had supper I will go hunting for those things that all the whizz-bang LiveCoders who do clever things with LiveCode miss but still affect how people like me [think school teacher who wants to do more than flipping PowerPoint]. Wet, faintly obscene noises, Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 13:36:13 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 20:36:13 +0300 Subject: Setting a plug-in to open with the IDE Message-ID: <5614068D.6090300@gmail.com> How does one set a plug-in so that it executes when a user opens LiveCode, rather than the user having to choose it from the Development/Plugins menu? Richmond. From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 6 13:45:51 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 17:45:51 +0000 Subject: Setting a plug-in to open with the IDE In-Reply-To: <5614068D.6090300@gmail.com> References: <5614068D.6090300@gmail.com> Message-ID: Development Menu | Plugins | Plugin Settings. Select the plugin from the option menu then click "Livecode starts up". On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:36 AM Richmond wrote: > How does one set a plug-in so that it executes when a user > opens LiveCode, rather than the user having to choose it > from the Development/Plugins menu? > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 13:56:04 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 20:56:04 +0300 Subject: Setting a plug-in to open with the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <5614068D.6090300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56140B34.9000207@gmail.com> On 06/10/15 20:45, Peter Haworth wrote: > Development Menu | Plugins | Plugin Settings. Select the plugin from the > option menu then click "Livecode starts up". Thanks, but that isn't really what I meant. Sarah Reichelt had a plugin for messing around with the Preference Palette in RR/LC 2 that, when placed in the Plug-ins folder opened automatically without the users having to set anything themselves. Richmond. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:36 AM Richmond > wrote: > >> How does one set a plug-in so that it executes when a user >> opens LiveCode, rather than the user having to choose it >> from the Development/Plugins menu? >> >> Richmond. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 6 13:59:34 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 17:59:34 +0000 Subject: Setting a plug-in to open with the IDE In-Reply-To: <56140B34.9000207@gmail.com> References: <5614068D.6090300@gmail.com> <56140B34.9000207@gmail.com> Message-ID: You don't need to do that every time you run LC, just once. Next time you run LC after doing that, the plugin will open automatically. Some plugins are preconfigured that way when you install them, others need to be tweaked the way I described to have them open automatically On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:56 AM Richmond wrote: > On 06/10/15 20:45, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Development Menu | Plugins | Plugin Settings. Select the plugin from the > > option menu then click "Livecode starts up". > > Thanks, but that isn't really what I meant. Sarah Reichelt had a plugin > for messing around > with the Preference Palette in RR/LC 2 that, when placed in the Plug-ins > folder opened > automatically without the users having to set anything themselves. > > Richmond. > > > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:36 AM Richmond > > wrote: > > > >> How does one set a plug-in so that it executes when a user > >> opens LiveCode, rather than the user having to choose it > >> from the Development/Plugins menu? > >> > >> Richmond. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 14:09:16 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 21:09:16 +0300 Subject: Setting a plug-in to open with the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <5614068D.6090300@gmail.com> <56140B34.9000207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56140E4C.6020407@gmail.com> On 06/10/15 20:59, Peter Haworth wrote: > You don't need to do that every time you run LC, just once. Next time you > run LC after doing that, the plugin will open automatically. Some plugins > are preconfigured that way when you install them, others need to be tweaked > the way I described to have them open automatically Thank you very much. Richmond. > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:56 AM Richmond > wrote: > >> On 06/10/15 20:45, Peter Haworth wrote: >>> Development Menu | Plugins | Plugin Settings. Select the plugin from the >>> option menu then click "Livecode starts up". >> Thanks, but that isn't really what I meant. Sarah Reichelt had a plugin >> for messing around >> with the Preference Palette in RR/LC 2 that, when placed in the Plug-ins >> folder opened >> automatically without the users having to set anything themselves. >> >> Richmond. >> >>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:36 AM Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>>> How does one set a plug-in so that it executes when a user >>>> opens LiveCode, rather than the user having to choose it >>>> from the Development/Plugins menu? >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 14:11:36 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 21:11:36 +0300 Subject: Application Browser Message-ID: <56140ED8.7010006@gmail.com> The Application Browser, which at least 2 of the Use-List members love, has been made inaccessible from the menubar of LiveCode 8. I have knocked together 2 plugin stacks that will, temporarily patch your IDE to rectify this shortcoming: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 Love, Richmond. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 6 14:16:08 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:16:08 +0000 Subject: DP6 more strict? In-Reply-To: <5613EE3E.9010204@ahsoftware.net> References: <0563503E-6152-4D9B-9FEB-92D19540D596@thehales.id.au> <9E52602B-2A3B-4F36-8699-796EA4BE39A6@livecode.com> <5611D6CC.10906@ahsoftware.net> <1444031902026-4696888.post@n4.nabble.com> <40f290bc817132505a48876857173e0a@livecode.com> <5613EE3E.9010204@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <9735FDFF-319A-4DF8-AAD3-508B854CDA2C@iotecdigital.com> He also said, "But in the morning Madam, I will be sober." Bob S On Oct 6, 2015, at 08:52 , Mark Wieder > wrote: My personal feeling (having observed people's interaction with the language for a long time) is that variant forms of syntax which do the same thing actually make things harder to learn and understand - it makes the dictionary larger and increases the vocabulary for no real benefit. I believe Churchill said the same thing about Basic English . From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 6 14:19:17 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:19:17 +0000 Subject: How Film Sets and Coding Are Equally Important In-Reply-To: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> References: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <90C381D8-F83C-4D55-99BD-30F2E088178D@iotecdigital.com> Actually both are examples of making illusions out of things whose real nature are nothing like what they appear to be. Bob S On Oct 6, 2015, at 08:28 , Jana Doughty > wrote: It made us think about how film and coding are both expressions of making something out of nothing. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 14:49:17 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 21:49:17 +0300 Subject: How Film Sets and Coding Are Equally Important In-Reply-To: <90C381D8-F83C-4D55-99BD-30F2E088178D@iotecdigital.com> References: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <90C381D8-F83C-4D55-99BD-30F2E088178D@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <561417AD.4070102@gmail.com> On 06/10/15 21:19, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Actually both are examples of making illusions out of things whose real nature are nothing like what they appear to be. Now there's a chestnut: is that supposed to be a good thing or a bad one? > > Bob S Richmond. > > > On Oct 6, 2015, at 08:28 , Jana Doughty > wrote: > > It made us think about how film and coding are both expressions of making > something out of nothing. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 6 14:57:03 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:57:03 +0000 Subject: How Film Sets and Coding Are Equally Important In-Reply-To: <561417AD.4070102@gmail.com> References: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <90C381D8-F83C-4D55-99BD-30F2E088178D@iotecdigital.com> <561417AD.4070102@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's amoral to my mind. Bob S On Oct 6, 2015, at 11:49 , Richmond > wrote: On 06/10/15 21:19, Bob Sneidar wrote: Actually both are examples of making illusions out of things whose real nature are nothing like what they appear to be. Now there's a chestnut: is that supposed to be a good thing or a bad one? Bob S Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 15:03:35 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 22:03:35 +0300 Subject: How Film Sets and Coding Are Equally Important In-Reply-To: References: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <90C381D8-F83C-4D55-99BD-30F2E088178D@iotecdigital.com> <561417AD.4070102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56141B07.4010505@gmail.com> On 06/10/15 21:57, Bob Sneidar wrote: > It's amoral to my mind. Well, amoral is a lot better than immoral. Although I would argue that it is a good thing to let computer users know that what they see on the monitor is a socking great illusion. R. > > Bob S > > > On Oct 6, 2015, at 11:49 , Richmond > wrote: > > On 06/10/15 21:19, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Actually both are examples of making illusions out of things whose real nature are nothing like what they appear to be. > > Now there's a chestnut: is that supposed to be a good thing or a bad one? > > Bob S > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 6 18:55:29 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 22:55:29 +0000 Subject: LC8 Message-ID: Does anyone know if the location and/or format of the dictionary file changed somewhere in LC8? How about plugin setting such when to load? Both these questions relate to issues that have been reported with lcStackbrowser and LC8. Pete From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Tue Oct 6 19:17:56 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 23:17:56 +0000 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes the dictionary has changed dramatically - the data is now in JSON format. The loading of plugins was an issue but should be fixed in the latest builds. On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 11:55 PM Peter Haworth wrote: > Does anyone know if the location and/or format of the dictionary file > changed somewhere in LC8? > > How about plugin setting such when to load? > > Both these questions relate to issues that have been reported with > lcStackbrowser and LC8. > > Pete > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Oct 6 19:24:50 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 16:24:50 -0700 Subject: How Film Sets and Coding Are Equally Important In-Reply-To: <56141B07.4010505@gmail.com> References: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <90C381D8-F83C-4D55-99BD-30F2E088178D@iotecdigital.com> <561417AD.4070102@gmail.com> <56141B07.4010505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56145842.5000908@ahsoftware.net> On 10/06/2015 12:03 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 06/10/15 21:57, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> It's amoral to my mind. > > Well, amoral is a lot better than immoral. Not sure about that. Immoral means a choice has been made. Amoral implies an uneasy uncertainty. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Oct 6 19:26:33 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 16:26:33 -0700 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561458A9.1020908@ahsoftware.net> On 10/06/2015 04:17 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > The loading of plugins was an issue but should be fixed in the latest > builds. And indeed that is the case. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 6 19:45:09 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 23:45:09 +0000 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: <561458A9.1020908@ahsoftware.net> References: <561458A9.1020908@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Thanks. I believe the plugin problem was discovered in LC8 dp5 so sounds like will be OK in dp6. On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 4:26 PM Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/06/2015 04:17 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > The loading of plugins was an issue but should be fixed in the latest > > builds. > > And indeed that is the case. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 02:37:27 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 09:37:27 +0300 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: References: <561458A9.1020908@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5614BDA7.5020802@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 02:45, Peter Haworth wrote: > Thanks. I believe the plugin problem was discovered in LC8 dp5 so sounds > like will be OK in dp6. Back to the Future: we currently have a DP7 build: "We?ll aim to continuously build LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-7 candidates, and make them available for you to download. No need to wait and wait for your bug to be fixed ? just make sure that you?re always working from the latest version" Usual exaggeration: exactly 2 builds: http://downloads.livecode.com/global-jam/ Richmond. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 4:26 PM Mark Wieder wrote: > >> On 10/06/2015 04:17 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: >> >>> The loading of plugins was an issue but should be fixed in the latest >>> builds. >> And indeed that is the case. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Wed Oct 7 02:49:13 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 08:49:13 +0200 Subject: How can I get a high-res image into LC? Message-ID: <002001d100cc$4772a880$d657f980$@kestner.de> Hello, when importing images into LC as an icon resource for buttons, does the dpi of the image makes any difference? I think the dpi is only relevant for printing. If I have a button of 100px and assign to it an image of 100px it should be irrelevant if the image has 72 dpi or 300 dpi, it only has 100px in both versions. Am I right? If I create an icon image with text in photoshop, I never get the text as crispy, as real text because the image is a bitmap and the text is vector based. And I don't even have a retina display for testing, so actually I don't know how blurred the button images look like on a retina display. What can I do to get crispy images (on buttons) in LC? How do you handle this issue? Any workaround? Probably "100px always keep 100px" on the screen, right? Thanks Tiemo From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 02:55:07 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 09:55:07 +0300 Subject: How can I get a high-res image into LC? In-Reply-To: <002001d100cc$4772a880$d657f980$@kestner.de> References: <002001d100cc$4772a880$d657f980$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <5614C1CB.1040700@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 09:49, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > when importing images into LC as an icon resource for buttons, does the dpi > of the image makes any difference? > > I think the dpi is only relevant for printing. If I have a button of 100px > and assign to it an image of 100px it should be irrelevant if the image has > 72 dpi or 300 dpi, it only has 100px in both versions. Am I right? > > If I create an icon image with text in photoshop, I never get the text as > crispy, as real text because the image is a bitmap and the text is vector > based. And I don't even have a retina display for testing, so actually I > don't know how blurred the button images look like on a retina display. > > What can I do to get crispy images (on buttons) in LC? How do you handle > this issue? Any workaround? Probably "100px always keep 100px" on the > screen, right? > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > Supposedly (!!!!!!!) LiveCode post-Moolah-raising-exercises should be able to handle vector images (import, export ???) so one should be able to import a scaleable image . . . SVG EPS Anyone ???? Or is that a goal / stretch-goal / stretch-the-truth-goal that 'somehow' got lost in the wash? Certainly if/were that capability available both imported images and users would be crispy! R. Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Oct 7 03:44:18 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 09:44:18 +0200 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: <5614BDA7.5020802@gmail.com> References: <561458A9.1020908@ahsoftware.net> <5614BDA7.5020802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3e87d25432085cd99c2a7d79c77be295@livecode.com> On 2015-10-07 08:37, Richmond wrote: > On 07/10/15 02:45, Peter Haworth wrote: >> Thanks. I believe the plugin problem was discovered in LC8 dp5 so >> sounds >> like will be OK in dp6. > > Back to the Future: we currently have a DP7 build: > > "We?ll aim to continuously build LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-7 candidates, and > make them available for you to download. No need to wait and wait for > your bug to be fixed ? just make sure that you?re always working from > the latest version" > > Usual exaggeration: exactly 2 builds: > http://downloads.livecode.com/global-jam/ Believe me, we were continuously building. Or builds 2-3 hours to complete. We made about 7 builds; 5 of them had serious bugs in them, and we decided that it wouldn't be a good idea to make them public. The live builds were actually very useful during the Global Jam. We were able to confirm with people who'd reported bugs that our fixes actually worked for them. Totally worthwhile, in my opinion. It also reinforced that we do need to increase the level of automation in our testing and releasing process. Even 6 months ago, it was taking us *2 days* to do a single build and release. We've come a long way since then, wouldn't you agree? We're just kicking of the final 8.0.0-dp-7 release build, and if it passes our full QA tests we'll be releasing it today. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 06:26:00 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 13:26:00 +0300 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: <3e87d25432085cd99c2a7d79c77be295@livecode.com> References: <561458A9.1020908@ahsoftware.net> <5614BDA7.5020802@gmail.com> <3e87d25432085cd99c2a7d79c77be295@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5614F338.4000403@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 10:44, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-10-07 08:37, Richmond wrote: >> On 07/10/15 02:45, Peter Haworth wrote: >>> Thanks. I believe the plugin problem was discovered in LC8 dp5 so >>> sounds >>> like will be OK in dp6. >> >> Back to the Future: we currently have a DP7 build: >> >> "We?ll aim to continuously build LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-7 candidates, and >> make them available for you to download. No need to wait and wait for >> your bug to be fixed ? just make sure that you?re always working from >> the latest version" >> >> Usual exaggeration: exactly 2 builds: >> http://downloads.livecode.com/global-jam/ > > Believe me, we were continuously building. Or builds 2-3 hours to > complete. We made about 7 builds; 5 of them had serious bugs in them, > and we decided that it wouldn't be a good idea to make them public. Aha. That's interesting. > > The live builds were actually very useful during the Global Jam. We > were able to confirm with people who'd reported bugs that our fixes > actually worked for them. Totally worthwhile, in my opinion. It also > reinforced that we do need to increase the level of automation in our > testing and releasing process. > > Even 6 months ago, it was taking us *2 days* to do a single build and > release. We've come a long way since then, wouldn't you agree? > > We're just kicking of the final 8.0.0-dp-7 release build, and if it > passes our full QA tests we'll be releasing it today. > > Peter > Should be good to see it and see what has changed. R. From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Wed Oct 7 10:21:46 2015 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 07:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How can I get a high-res image into LC? In-Reply-To: <5614C1CB.1040700@gmail.com> References: <002001d100cc$4772a880$d657f980$@kestner.de> <5614C1CB.1040700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1444227706050-4696974.post@n4.nabble.com> There is still no import feature of SVG vector graphics. (And the EPS import is very limited and old.) The "Roadmap" says: "Vector Shape Object Use widget framework to write this control." So, like the multimedia player object, SVG is in LC8 limbo. Note that the bare info. in the roadmap blurb does not specify import, export or even SVG. So it's hard to know what to expect, though the LC8 DP has some clues. If you are up for an adventure, I believe the LC8 DP has a widget into which you can paste the SVG path information of a drawing, if you can get a hold of that data. LC8 also has a widget with the vectorized FontAwesome icon font, which enables you to easily make scalable button graphics. But all that is over the LC8 horizon unless you are willing to make your project with a developer's preview version. Maybe the Global Jam will result in LC8 shipping soon. Hope so. Tom -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-can-I-get-a-high-res-image-into-LC-tp4696970p4696974.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 7 10:56:43 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:56:43 +0000 Subject: How Film Sets and Coding Are Equally Important In-Reply-To: <56145842.5000908@ahsoftware.net> References: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <90C381D8-F83C-4D55-99BD-30F2E088178D@iotecdigital.com> <561417AD.4070102@gmail.com> <56141B07.4010505@gmail.com> <56145842.5000908@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <96A853DF-11B2-42AC-A1E3-55DE5C52ADDA@iotecdigital.com> If I may be so bold as to disagree, Amoral means the absense of moral aspect. Neither moral or immoral. Bob S On Oct 6, 2015, at 16:24 , Mark Wieder > wrote: On 10/06/2015 12:03 PM, Richmond wrote: On 06/10/15 21:57, Bob Sneidar wrote: It's amoral to my mind. Well, amoral is a lot better than immoral. Not sure about that. Immoral means a choice has been made. Amoral implies an uneasy uncertainty. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 14:08:26 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:08:26 +0300 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser Message-ID: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. R. From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 7 14:22:51 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 20:22:51 +0200 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: > Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 > > So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether > RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen > to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your > opinion. If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 14:31:42 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:31:42 +0300 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >> >> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. > > If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who > said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for > years) ;) And Jacque Landman Gay. > > To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to > gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the > Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little > 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same > purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it > that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something > which everybody would be happy with? I wonder what the design team in Edinburgh feel is intrinsically wrong with the App Browser. > > Warmest Regards, Umm . . . feeling a bit hot round the collar. > > Mark. > R. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 14:34:46 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:34:46 +0300 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >> >> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. > > If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who > said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for > years) ;) > Well, I may not know much, but I do know that 'people' is a collective noun, so, had I just meant myself I would have used 'person'. > To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to > gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the > Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little > 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same > purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it > that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something > which everybody would be happy with? > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > R. From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 7 14:40:25 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 19:40:25 +0100 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> Message-ID: Indeed - but I don't think your tone of phrase was using it in that exact manner? ;) By the way, I'm smiling here - it is a useful conversation to have if it is constructive. Either app browser bashing or project browser bashing isn't particularly useful to my mind. What is useful is getting the information about what the best approach is to the problem - which is all I was trying to promote :) Sent from my iPhone > On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:34, Richmond wrote: > >> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>> >>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>> >>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >> >> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) > > Well, I may not know much, but I do know that 'people' is a collective noun, so, had I just meant myself I would have used 'person'. > >> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. > > R. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 7 14:43:10 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 19:43:10 +0100 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> Seriously, no need to feel hot about the collar :) There are definitely people who do not like the project browser - that is clear. I'd also suggest that there are people who don't like the application browser. So - let us assume that it costs a good deal of time to maintain both and thus having one such thing would be preferable... Is there a compromise in design which can be come to that satisfies most? Sent from my iPhone > On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:31, Richmond wrote: > >> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>> >>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>> >>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >> >> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) > > And Jacque Landman Gay. > >> >> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? > > I wonder what the design team in Edinburgh feel is intrinsically wrong with the App Browser. >> >> Warmest Regards, > > Umm . . . feeling a bit hot round the collar. > >> >> Mark. > > R. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 14:46:22 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:46:22 +0300 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 21:40, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Indeed - but I don't think your tone of phrase was using it in that exact manner? ;) > > By the way, I'm smiling here - it is a useful conversation to have if it is constructive. Either app browser bashing or project browser bashing isn't particularly useful to my mind. I'm not Project Browser bashing as such. I was very surprised when the Project Browser arrived, and played with it quite a bit, but reverted to the App Browser as could not see any obvious advantages. As both Browsers are present in current LiveCode 8 builds I don't actually see anything wrong with retaining both of them. The fact that the menu system in the revMenuBar stack does NOT allow access to the App Browser does give out a signal which is fairly blatant that the App Browser is not going to be with us much longer: it was this that precipitated my small hack to allow access to the App Browser. R. > > What is useful is getting the information about what the best approach is to the problem - which is all I was trying to promote :) > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:34, Richmond wrote: >> >>> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>>> >>>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >>> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) >> Well, I may not know much, but I do know that 'people' is a collective noun, so, had I just meant myself I would have used 'person'. >> >>> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> >>> Mark. >> R. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Oct 7 14:54:03 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:54:03 +0200 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> What about making a poll? Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/7/2015 om 20:43 schreef Mark Waddingham: > Seriously, no need to feel hot about the collar :) > > There are definitely people who do not like the project browser - that is clear. > > I'd also suggest that there are people who don't like the application browser. > > So - let us assume that it costs a good deal of time to maintain both and thus having one such thing would be preferable... > > Is there a compromise in design which can be come to that satisfies most? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:31, Richmond wrote: >> >>> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>>> >>>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >>> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) >> And Jacque Landman Gay. >> >>> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? >> I wonder what the design team in Edinburgh feel is intrinsically wrong with the App Browser. >>> Warmest Regards, >> Umm . . . feeling a bit hot round the collar. >> >>> Mark. >> R. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 7 14:54:36 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 19:54:36 +0100 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> So if we had deleted the app browser stack from the build, would your point of view have changed and would you have started to use the project browser? ;) Sent from my iPhone > On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:46, Richmond wrote: > >> On 07/10/15 21:40, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> Indeed - but I don't think your tone of phrase was using it in that exact manner? ;) >> >> By the way, I'm smiling here - it is a useful conversation to have if it is constructive. Either app browser bashing or project browser bashing isn't particularly useful to my mind. > > I'm not Project Browser bashing as such. > > I was very surprised when the Project Browser arrived, and played with it quite a bit, but reverted to the App Browser as could not > see any obvious advantages. > > As both Browsers are present in current LiveCode 8 builds I don't actually see anything wrong with retaining both of them. > > The fact that the menu system in the revMenuBar stack does NOT allow access to the App Browser does give out a signal which > is fairly blatant that the App Browser is not going to be with us much longer: > > it was this that precipitated my small hack to allow access to the App Browser. > > R. > >> >> What is useful is getting the information about what the best approach is to the problem - which is all I was trying to promote :) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:34, Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>>>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>>>> >>>>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>>>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>>>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >>>> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) >>> Well, I may not know much, but I do know that 'people' is a collective noun, so, had I just meant myself I would have used 'person'. >>> >>>> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? >>>> >>>> Warmest Regards, >>>> >>>> Mark. >>> R. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 14:56:06 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:56:06 +0300 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56156AC6.9030002@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 21:43, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Seriously, no need to feel hot about the collar :) > > There are definitely people who do not like the project browser - that is clear. > > I'd also suggest that there are people who don't like the application browser. > > So - let us assume that it costs a good deal of time to maintain both and thus having one such thing would be preferable... > > Is there a compromise in design which can be come to that satisfies most? Have you ever seen a compromise that satisfies most people? Well, all I can suggest is that LiveCode produces a hybrid [ chim? ra ??? ] and see what the response is . . . R. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:31, Richmond wrote: >> >>> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>>> >>>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >>> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) >> And Jacque Landman Gay. >> >>> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? >> I wonder what the design team in Edinburgh feel is intrinsically wrong with the App Browser. >>> Warmest Regards, >> Umm . . . feeling a bit hot round the collar. >> >>> Mark. >> R. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 14:59:34 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:59:34 +0300 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <56156B96.1000108@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 21:54, Mark Schonewille wrote: > What about making a poll? +1 Richmond. > > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 10/7/2015 om 20:43 schreef Mark Waddingham: >> Seriously, no need to feel hot about the collar :) >> >> There are definitely people who do not like the project browser - >> that is clear. >> >> I'd also suggest that there are people who don't like the application >> browser. >> >> So - let us assume that it costs a good deal of time to maintain both >> and thus having one such thing would be preferable... >> >> Is there a compromise in design which can be come to that satisfies >> most? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:31, Richmond wrote: >>> >>>> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>>>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over >>>>> here: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>>>> >>>>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>>>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>>>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your >>>>> opinion. >>>> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another >>>> who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't >>>> for years) ;) >>> And Jacque Landman Gay. >>> >>>> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to >>>> gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both >>>> the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a >>>> little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the >>>> same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what >>>> is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design >>>> something which everybody would be happy with? >>> I wonder what the design team in Edinburgh feel is intrinsically >>> wrong with the App Browser. >>>> Warmest Regards, >>> Umm . . . feeling a bit hot round the collar. >>> >>>> Mark. >>> R. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Oct 7 15:02:12 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:02:12 +0200 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56156C34.9000204@economy-x-talk.com> That is a strange question: if we take away something you like, would you use the one and only thing that's left? I think you need to be a little careful with that. While some people might use whatever tool is available, some other people will decide to use a different tool (like me), but yet again some other people might decide to switch to an entirely different programming environment. -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/7/2015 om 20:54 schreef Mark Waddingham: > So if we had deleted the app browser stack from the build, would your point of view have changed and would you have started to use the project browser? ;) > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:46, Richmond wrote: >> >>> On 07/10/15 21:40, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>> Indeed - but I don't think your tone of phrase was using it in that exact manner? ;) >>> >>> By the way, I'm smiling here - it is a useful conversation to have if it is constructive. Either app browser bashing or project browser bashing isn't particularly useful to my mind. >> I'm not Project Browser bashing as such. >> >> I was very surprised when the Project Browser arrived, and played with it quite a bit, but reverted to the App Browser as could not >> see any obvious advantages. >> >> As both Browsers are present in current LiveCode 8 builds I don't actually see anything wrong with retaining both of them. >> >> The fact that the menu system in the revMenuBar stack does NOT allow access to the App Browser does give out a signal which >> is fairly blatant that the App Browser is not going to be with us much longer: >> >> it was this that precipitated my small hack to allow access to the App Browser. >> >> R. >> >>> What is useful is getting the information about what the best approach is to the problem - which is all I was trying to promote :) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:34, Richmond wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>>>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>>>>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>>>>> >>>>>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>>>>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>>>>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >>>>> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) >>>> Well, I may not know much, but I do know that 'people' is a collective noun, so, had I just meant myself I would have used 'person'. >>>> >>>>> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? >>>>> >>>>> Warmest Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Mark. >>>> R. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 7 15:02:43 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:02:43 +0100 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> As an indication of community division it might be useful - app browser/project browser/indifferent. However, I'm not sure a poll would give us the information we need as it is too binary. It's not about preference as such it's about having a component which serves everyone's needs. The reality is that the app browser is old code wise and doesn't sit on the new abstractions we are building to make the components in the IDE more robust and easier to adapt and evolve. We could certainly look at rewriting it on top of those abstractions - however, it seems sensible to find out if there is some sort of AppProjBrowser we could build first before considering such an undertaking. Mark Sent from my iPhone > On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:54, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > What about making a poll? > > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 10/7/2015 om 20:43 schreef Mark Waddingham: >> Seriously, no need to feel hot about the collar :) >> >> There are definitely people who do not like the project browser - that is clear. >> >> I'd also suggest that there are people who don't like the application browser. >> >> So - let us assume that it costs a good deal of time to maintain both and thus having one such thing would be preferable... >> >> Is there a compromise in design which can be come to that satisfies most? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:31, Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>>>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>>>> >>>>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>>>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>>>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >>>> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) >>> And Jacque Landman Gay. >>> >>>> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? >>> I wonder what the design team in Edinburgh feel is intrinsically wrong with the App Browser. >>>> Warmest Regards, >>> Umm . . . feeling a bit hot round the collar. >>> >>>> Mark. >>> R. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 15:04:31 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:04:31 +0300 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56156CBF.60401@gmail.com> On 07/10/15 21:54, Mark Waddingham wrote: > So if we had deleted the app browser stack from the build, would your point of view have changed and would you have started to use the project browser? ;) When I finally got to look at a LiveCode 8 build after a week's hiatus with various computer problems, as the App Browser was not accessible from the menus my first reaction was to try to export the App Browser from LiveCode 7.1 and port it over to LiveCode 8. While I'm on a roll, I could also point out that I cannot see any obvious advantages in the complete remake of the Preference Palette in LiveCode 8. To contextualise things: I remember the major interface overhaul that took place via RR/LC 2.6 to 3.0, and the 'new' preference palette was vastly better than the previous one, as was the whole IDE. Richmond. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:46, Richmond wrote: >> >>> On 07/10/15 21:40, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>> Indeed - but I don't think your tone of phrase was using it in that exact manner? ;) >>> >>> By the way, I'm smiling here - it is a useful conversation to have if it is constructive. Either app browser bashing or project browser bashing isn't particularly useful to my mind. >> I'm not Project Browser bashing as such. >> >> I was very surprised when the Project Browser arrived, and played with it quite a bit, but reverted to the App Browser as could not >> see any obvious advantages. >> >> As both Browsers are present in current LiveCode 8 builds I don't actually see anything wrong with retaining both of them. >> >> The fact that the menu system in the revMenuBar stack does NOT allow access to the App Browser does give out a signal which >> is fairly blatant that the App Browser is not going to be with us much longer: >> >> it was this that precipitated my small hack to allow access to the App Browser. >> >> R. >> >>> What is useful is getting the information about what the best approach is to the problem - which is all I was trying to promote :) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>> On 7 Oct 2015, at 19:34, Richmond wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 07/10/15 21:22, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>>>> On 2015-10-07 20:08, Richmond wrote: >>>>>> Well, it seems that the "people" are speaking with one voice over here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25503 >>>>>> >>>>>> So, as an experiment in participatory democracy, and whether >>>>>> RunRev/LiveCode REALLY listen >>>>>> to their installed customer base, Please go there and give your opinion. >>>>> If by the 'people' you mean yourself, one other person and another who said he doesn't even use the application browser (and hasn't for years) ;) >>>> Well, I may not know much, but I do know that 'people' is a collective noun, so, had I just meant myself I would have used 'person'. >>>> >>>>> To be fair, whilst preference *might* be an interesting thing to gauge... Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would be happy with? >>>>> >>>>> Warmest Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Mark. >>>> R. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Oct 7 15:58:13 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:58:13 -0500 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/7/2015 1:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project > Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to > maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's > idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad > about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would > be happy with? The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't practical. 1. The hierarchical organization of the App Browser (AB) is indispensable and is the main reason I stay with it. I can see at a glance how to drill down to the single object I am looking for and how objects are organized on each card by group and layer order. It is by far the fastest way to understand how a set of stacks is internally structured. The long, scrolling list in the Project Browser (PB) can't display the structure as clearly because it is all linear. Multiple cards with many objects will run off the top and bottom of the PB window and you can't see the overall organization. 2. It is difficult in the PB to quickly find a specific object. If you want to know the name of an object on some other card, you have to collapse the current card, scroll through 50 cards to find the one you're looking for (and if you didn't collapse those already, the scrolling is interminable,) expand it, scroll through the objects to find the one you want (note the name because it's going to be a long trip to find it again,) collapse that card, scroll (forever) again to find the card you started with, expand it, find the original object again, and continue. In AB, I can just look at the left-hand pane and see the name of the target card, click it, note the name of the object, then click back where I was. If the AB is sized tall enough to hold 50 lines of text, I don't have to do much scrolling at all. If I do need to scroll, it's minimal because at least 25-30 cards are always visible at once. 2. In the AB I can click on any header to view the organization in many ways, and I have a choice of which columns I want to display. If I want to work only with images, or fields, I can bunch them together in the list by type and they are quickly accessible while still allowing me to see the other objects on the card. I frequently require info on layering order, one click and I have that. I use the ID column extensively. In PB I have to type in a filter string to isolate by object type, and then I can no longer see any other objects, so if I need some other info I have to remove the filter, find what I want, then reinstate the original filter. PB does not offer a way to identify an object ID at all, as far as I can see, and I need that all the time. (But you could turn off those distracting ID tooltips for sure.) 3. Visually, the PB is too cluttered to be quickly scanned. The checkmarks in the AB are more useful. In the AB is very easy to see, for example, which objects are invisible by simply looking for "gaps" in the checkmark column. In the PB I have to examine each object individually because the visual difference between the enabled and disabled "eye" image is not distinct enough, and even if it were, there's that scrolling issue again to see all the objects. Also, there is no single column to scan -- the lock icon is interspersed so you have to mentally learn to skip over every other icon. 4. I have turned off thumbnails in the PB because with hundreds of objects or more, the time required for it to constantly update is (or at least, was) unacceptable. Even without thumbnails, it performs much slower than the AB. There is also the issue of visual clutter (see below) which is main reason I turned off thumbnails on day one. Thumbnails also double the amount of scrolling you have to do to find things. 5. In the PB there is no clear delineation between cards and substacks. Both are left-aligned at the same visual depth. In the AB, all stacks are in the left pane, with substacks indented under their mainstack. Also, in the PB, the stack you are inspecting scrolls off the top of the window, so you are never sure which stack owns the cards that are currently displayed. This is a big issue in my project, because all the stacks are clones of each other and cards have the same names (usually just IDs.) In the AB I can immediately see which stack owns the card because the card is highlighted in the left-pane list under its easily-viewable owner. Even if I have to scroll to see the stack name, the card I'm working with remains selected and its objects remain visible. 6. The icons at the bottom of the PB are so tiny on my screen that they are difficult to recognize (and my eyesight isn't great anyway.) I have to use the tooltips. That takes too long, so I just open the property inspector or use the menu items instead. I suppose with some use I'd memorize what each icon does, but the other issues have prevented me from becoming familiar enough with it. That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with it. I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my work style unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar view rather than a linear one. What I would have preferred is an update for the few glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always refresh automatically, and those blinking tooltips are positively aggressive) and give it a new coat of paint if you think it looks too dated. Its plain text layout with clear checkmarks is much easier for me to work with. I do like how you can change layering order by dragging in the PB, that would be a nice addition to the AB. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From userev at canelasoftware.com Wed Oct 7 16:31:57 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 13:31:57 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 7, 2015, at 12:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with it. I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my work style unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar view rather than a linear one. What I would have preferred is an update for the few glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always refresh automatically, and those blinking tooltips are positively aggressive) and give it a new coat of paint if you think it looks too dated. Its plain text layout with clear checkmarks is much easier for me to work with. I do like how you can change layering order by dragging in the PB, that would be a nice addition to the AB. Have you tried Geoff Canyon?s revNavigator? It is the smallest and cleanest solution yet. You get the best of both the AppBrowser and the ProjectBrowser in one package. We design some pretty complex apps over here. I like the fact that you can focus on a single card at a time. Filter brings you down to all the controls of the same kind, or the exact control you are looking for. Edit scripts, properties, and other useful functionality with keyboard and clicks that you can define. Drag and drop controls to reorder their layers. Support a dark background or not, which is something I prefer. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for LiveCode developers: livecloud.io From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Oct 7 16:32:40 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 15:32:40 -0500 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <56158168.8030505@hyperactivesw.com> I remembered another issue that prevents me from using the PB: there is no card number visible. This is actually a big deal for me. My stacks do not have named cards, they are all IDs. In the AB I can see the card number which is also displayed in my stack or, sometimes, in the titlebar. That's how I locate cards, it's quick to spot a card number in the AB. The PB doesn't show card numbers at all, so there is no way to find a card without physically counting from the top in the collapsed list. On 10/7/2015 2:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/7/2015 1:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project >> Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to >> maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's >> idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad >> about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would >> be happy with? > > The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large > stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per > card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I > haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't practical. > > 1. The hierarchical organization of the App Browser (AB) is > indispensable and is the main reason I stay with it. I can see at a > glance how to drill down to the single object I am looking for and how > objects are organized on each card by group and layer order. It is by > far the fastest way to understand how a set of stacks is internally > structured. The long, scrolling list in the Project Browser (PB) can't > display the structure as clearly because it is all linear. Multiple > cards with many objects will run off the top and bottom of the PB window > and you can't see the overall organization. > > 2. It is difficult in the PB to quickly find a specific object. If you > want to know the name of an object on some other card, you have to > collapse the current card, scroll through 50 cards to find the one > you're looking for (and if you didn't collapse those already, the > scrolling is interminable,) expand it, scroll through the objects to > find the one you want (note the name because it's going to be a long > trip to find it again,) collapse that card, scroll (forever) again to > find the card you started with, expand it, find the original object > again, and continue. In AB, I can just look at the left-hand pane and > see the name of the target card, click it, note the name of the object, > then click back where I was. If the AB is sized tall enough to hold 50 > lines of text, I don't have to do much scrolling at all. If I do need to > scroll, it's minimal because at least 25-30 cards are always visible at > once. > > 2. In the AB I can click on any header to view the organization in many > ways, and I have a choice of which columns I want to display. If I want > to work only with images, or fields, I can bunch them together in the > list by type and they are quickly accessible while still allowing me to > see the other objects on the card. I frequently require info on layering > order, one click and I have that. I use the ID column extensively. In PB > I have to type in a filter string to isolate by object type, and then I > can no longer see any other objects, so if I need some other info I have > to remove the filter, find what I want, then reinstate the original > filter. PB does not offer a way to identify an object ID at all, as far > as I can see, and I need that all the time. (But you could turn off > those distracting ID tooltips for sure.) > > 3. Visually, the PB is too cluttered to be quickly scanned. The > checkmarks in the AB are more useful. In the AB is very easy to see, for > example, which objects are invisible by simply looking for "gaps" in the > checkmark column. In the PB I have to examine each object individually > because the visual difference between the enabled and disabled "eye" > image is not distinct enough, and even if it were, there's that > scrolling issue again to see all the objects. Also, there is no single > column to scan -- the lock icon is interspersed so you have to mentally > learn to skip over every other icon. > > 4. I have turned off thumbnails in the PB because with hundreds of > objects or more, the time required for it to constantly update is (or at > least, was) unacceptable. Even without thumbnails, it performs much > slower than the AB. There is also the issue of visual clutter (see > below) which is main reason I turned off thumbnails on day one. > Thumbnails also double the amount of scrolling you have to do to find > things. > > 5. In the PB there is no clear delineation between cards and substacks. > Both are left-aligned at the same visual depth. In the AB, all stacks > are in the left pane, with substacks indented under their mainstack. > Also, in the PB, the stack you are inspecting scrolls off the top of the > window, so you are never sure which stack owns the cards that are > currently displayed. This is a big issue in my project, because all the > stacks are clones of each other and cards have the same names (usually > just IDs.) In the AB I can immediately see which stack owns the card > because the card is highlighted in the left-pane list under its > easily-viewable owner. Even if I have to scroll to see the stack name, > the card I'm working with remains selected and its objects remain visible. > > 6. The icons at the bottom of the PB are so tiny on my screen that they > are difficult to recognize (and my eyesight isn't great anyway.) I have > to use the tooltips. That takes too long, so I just open the property > inspector or use the menu items instead. I suppose with some use I'd > memorize what each icon does, but the other issues have prevented me > from becoming familiar enough with it. > > That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with it. > I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my work style > unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar view rather than a > linear one. What I would have preferred is an update for the few > glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always refresh automatically, and > those blinking tooltips are positively aggressive) and give it a new > coat of paint if you think it looks too dated. Its plain text layout > with clear checkmarks is much easier for me to work with. I do like how > you can change layering order by dragging in the PB, that would be a > nice addition to the AB. > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Oct 7 16:43:21 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 15:43:21 -0500 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <561583E9.1040309@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/7/2015 3:31 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > >> On Oct 7, 2015, at 12:58 PM, J. Landman Gay >> wrote: >> >> That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with >> it. I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my >> work style unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar >> view rather than a linear one. What I would have preferred is an >> update for the few glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always >> refresh automatically, and those blinking tooltips are positively >> aggressive) and give it a new coat of paint if you think it looks >> too dated. Its plain text layout with clear checkmarks is much >> easier for me to work with. I do like how you can change layering >> order by dragging in the PB, that would be a nice addition to the >> AB. > > Have you tried Geoff Canyon?s revNavigator? It is the smallest and > cleanest solution yet. You get the best of both the AppBrowser and > the ProjectBrowser in one package. We design some pretty complex apps > over here. I like the fact that you can focus on a single card at a > time. Filter brings you down to all the controls of the same kind, or > the exact control you are looking for. Edit scripts, properties, and > other useful functionality with keyboard and clicks that you can > define. Drag and drop controls to reorder their layers. Support a > dark background or not, which is something I prefer. I'm embarrassed to say I haven't. I looked at it a couple of times, but the docs require some memorization and I didn't pursue it. If the docs could be separated out into a separate window for reference I might have an easier time learning it. It does look powerful and I've heard only good reports about it. If LC 8 really does eliminate the app browser, I'll probably move to Navigator. The client who owns this big project tried to use PB for a while and also dropped it quickly. She liked it at first because of the thumbnails and draggable layering but ran into all the other limitations soon after and dropped it in favor of the app browser. Her problems with the PB were pretty much identical to mine. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From paul at livecode.org Wed Oct 7 17:02:21 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:02:21 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> Message-ID: <2621D01A-473E-4041-AEC0-EB7CD57E4C12@livecode.org> I am one of the people that generally prefers the Application Browser to the Project Browser, but to be fair I don?t think I gave the PB enough attention to see any of it?s merits. Now that I?ve used the PB a little more in LC8 I have been able to get a slightly better feel for it, so I thought it may be useful to list what I like and don?t like, this what I came up with: What I do like about the Application Browser: 1. Column views, having a separate window to list all controls on the selected card makes it easy to locate the control you want to work with especially if it isn?t currently visible on the card that?s open. 2. Being able to sort the list by different columns. Really useful for long lists of controls, great for grouping control info. 3. Control IDs and Layer numbers are immediately visible. 3. The Refresh button. What I don?t like about the Application Browser: 1. The column sizes don?t save between sessions, so I find I?m always resizing them! 2. No filters, but column sort helps. What I do like about the Project Browser: 1. Takes up less screen space than the Application Browser. 2. Having options that do stick between session. 3. Some useful options available under the contextual menu, (like Send Message). What I don?t like about the Project Browser: 1. No easy way to change the sort order (I know it?s in the LC Prefs, but that?s too slow to get to). 2. No filter in LC8 - it is there in LC7. 3. No control IDs or layer numbers visible. 4. No easy way to refresh. What I would like to see in the Project Browser: 1. Reinstate the filter, preferably with more options like show/hide by control type. 2. To be able to temporarily hide stacks/cards/controls from the PB, (to enable a more focused view), not just collapsing them in the tree view. e.g. Hiding controls that are hidden on a card, removing library stacks etc. from the PB view. 3. A Refresh button/option to avoid closing and re-opening the PB. 4. Control IDs and Layer numbers should be visible, maybe with a preference setting for people that don?t want to see them. 5. The ability to rename controls would be useful. 6. The option to switch between column view and tree view, this would save having two different viewers and keep more people happy! Interestingly every time I open LC8 (dp7) the Application Browser opens, maybe it?s because I closed LC7 with the AB still open(?), but as soon as I close it I can?t get it back. I have tried a 3rd party browser, but this discussion is about the native LC options. Just a few of my thoughts. Paul From paul at researchware.com Wed Oct 7 17:19:08 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 17:19:08 -0400 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser (features) In-Reply-To: <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <56158C4C.3020101@researchware.com> On 10/7/2015 3:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/7/2015 1:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project >> Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to >> maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's >> idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad >> about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would >> be happy with? > > The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large > stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per > card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I > haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't practical. > > 1. The hierarchical organization of the App Browser (AB) is > indispensable and is the main reason I stay with it. I can see at a > glance how to drill down to the single object I am looking for and how > objects are organized on each card by group and layer order. It is by > far the fastest way to understand how a set of stacks is internally > structured. The long, scrolling list in the Project Browser (PB) can't > display the structure as clearly because it is all linear. Multiple > cards with many objects will run off the top and bottom of the PB > window and you can't see the overall organization. This is getting at what Mark asked for - what features specifically do people use or don't use and why. I actually like the hierarchical model of the PB (in LC 7.0.6) over the AB for small projects, but I agree with Jacque that for large projects the scrolling list of objects on a card in AB is superior for navigation. Possibly if the PB provided Zoom In/Zoom Out so you could focus just on one card's objects and the scroll would be limited to that list until you Zoomed out. Some collapse All/Expand All and Collapse Selected/Expand Selected buttons or options would be helpful. I also miss the layer number column that the AB has in the PB, but generally I do prefer the hierarchical navigation of PB (except for cards with a LOT of objects not structured in groups) From tedennis at softwaredetails.com Wed Oct 7 17:20:50 2015 From: tedennis at softwaredetails.com (Terry Dennis) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:20:50 -0700 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 145, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Message: 18 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:58:13 -0500 From: "J. Landman Gay" To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: App Browser versus Project Browser Message-ID: <56157955.3080302 at hyperactivesw.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't practical. ********* +10 I inherited a large, complex project that was written by an early user of Revolution. The Project Browser is darned near worthless in that project. Because of that, I am staying with 7.x so I can use the Application Browser. Unfortunately, 7.x is slower than 6.X, and has more bugs than I (or anyone) should have to deal with. Intersect caused me much lost time until I finally figured out an empty array somehow incorrectly intersected with a large array. ?Split? of a blank delimited series of numbers created empty elements, instead of putting ?true? into the value of each entry like the dictionary says it does. The Dictionary filter is ridiculously slow. Etc. ... I don?t have time to wait for fixes from RunRev, so I have to roll my own. That takes time, and time is money. If there hadn?t already been significant funds expended on this project, I would be transitioning to another development platform. As to the thought of using an add-on written by somebody else ... WHY? The requisite basic functionality should be provided by the vendor I support with my license fees. Throwing somebody else?s well-intentioned ?enhancements? into the mix introduces additional risk of quality control errors (aka: bugs). TED From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 7 17:59:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:59:16 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56156AC6.9030002@gmail.com> References: <56156AC6.9030002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561595B4.3060606@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > Well, all I can suggest is that LiveCode produces a hybrid > [ chim? ra ??? ] and see what the response is . . . Maybe that would be useful, but maybe LiveCode Ltd. doesn't need to build it. They have a lot of smart people writing C++ in ways beyond the skills and experience of most members of our community. But this is true of most of the great scripting languages: R, Python, Lua, PHP, and others - they all have rather small teams working on their engines, but what makes them truly great languages is the scope of scripted tools and libraries their communities share. The one thing we know about LiveCode scripters is that they enjoy scripting in LiveCode. Would it be so crazy to have a community-managed fork of the IDE? For a while even Ben used to suggest that as an option between major versions. And right now the team at LiveCode Ltd. has already made changes to the IDE which are version-8-dependent, so there's no affordable way to backport to the current product version anyway. Is this a good time for you, or anyone with sufficient time, interest, and skill, to modify the IDE? Why not have exactly what you want? Like the inventor of the engine used to say back where there were three IDEs with talk of more: "Let a thousand flowers bloom." -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 7 18:53:48 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 15:53:48 -0700 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5615A27C.70703@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-06 04:54, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Monte Goulding wrote: >>> On 6 Oct 2015, at 1:15 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> some really long script somewhere to create every control and >>>> set every property? >>> >>> ^ this >> >> Where can I read that? >> >> I wonder what the break-even ROI calculation for that effort looks >> like.... > > Exceptionally good. We moved to dynamically built menus in the > revMenuBar a long time ago, and as a result it became a great deal > easier to maintain (and a lot of bugs were fixed in the transition) - > this is essentially an extension of that work. > > Having the principal components generated on-the-fly means that they can > become more customizable. For example, you've pointed out you'd like to > add a button to the revMenuBar to pop up various components. I think that must have been someone else. My LC workspace is a very simple one in which I very rarely ever see revMenubar: > With the old model, you'd have to patch the revMenuBar yourself, and > each time we do an update you need to update your patch. > > The new way of doing things means that it should be relatively > straightforward to enable the menubar buttons to be customizable (a bit > like the 'Toolbar Editor' you get on Mac in many apps). I do run a set of patches in a plugin on launch to cover for fixes in queue, and one just-for-fun patch that updates the revMenubar colors and fonts to fit in more nicely with Ubuntu's default theme. Near as I can tell most of my patches (aside from one related to topcolor) work the same in both v8 and the current product v7. Whether I modify object properties or script lines it seems about the same to me, except that object names are less likely to change between builds than lines in a script that does everything and thus requires frequent changes, no? As long as patchers work on objects after startup, seems to make little difference whether the stack was prefab or built during boot from a script. > At the moment, the script is basically the refactored code from the > stack based revMenuBar to be but in a neater structure (the code for > various things was spread out, and in some cases very difficult to see > how changes should be made). Looking forward to seeing the changes you have in mind. > If you would be interested in helping to add the relevant hooks to the > revMenuBar to make it customizable based on user preference then it is > probably worth starting a discussion on such a thing. I have a tool in the works that'll help that conversation along.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 7 18:54:33 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:54:33 +1100 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <561595B4.3060606@fourthworld.com> References: <56156AC6.9030002@gmail.com> <561595B4.3060606@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 8 Oct 2015, at 8:59 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > Well, all I can suggest is that LiveCode produces a hybrid > > [ chim? ra ??? ] and see what the response is . . . > > Maybe that would be useful, but maybe LiveCode Ltd. doesn't need to build it. rIDE was nice but I think it may have suffered from the same single hierarchy issue that the project browser suffers from. At one point I was thinking of making a stack browser that behaved like the column view in the finder but then I realised that the most annoying thing about the application browser is its use of horizontal space. Unfortunately it?s the use of horizontal space that makes it more functional? Perhaps if it had some nice behavior when the columns compact up and a good way to provide context it would work? We all need to get our Scott Rossi hats on and come up with a UI that both minimises use of horizontal space and keeps the list as clean as possible so you can just look at the objects on a single card. Other than that I would say I?d be happier with it if we lost a few pixels from each line to make it more compact vertically. There?s a few other features I?d add as well? The root of the hierarchy could be Top Stack, Open Stacks, All Stacks, Front Scripts, Back Scripts, Stacks In Use. The card list could have Current Card at the top. If you have the current card selected then as the current card changes the object list updates to show the correct list. This is particularly helpful if you have top stack > current card selected. Direct integration between the project browser and the script editor would be very nice too. Some kind of context mode in the script editor that would switch the script in the script editor to the selected obhect with some indication of unsaved or unset scripts on the project browser.. Extra bonus points if you can include the project browser directly into the script editor as a pane? Very much like how the inspector will change when you select an object. It seems reasonable that the script editor could have such a mode that would update with object selection via project browser or other means. Cheers Monte From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Oct 7 18:55:37 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 00:55:37 +0200 Subject: [OT] Lifetime Access to GoSkills ExcelCours for $25 instead of 600 Message-ID: Hi, for the next 6 hours you can purchase Lifetime Access to 3 Excel courses (Basic, Advanced and Pivotables) from GoSkills with Lifetime Update at AppSumos website at http://www.appsumo.com/~cZ9Ld/ Lifetime updates mean, they will update their course when new Excel versions are released. This offer will expire in about 6 hours. Hope it?s useful for the one or the other. Matthias From brahma at hindu.org Wed Oct 7 19:06:01 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 23:06:01 +0000 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <2621D01A-473E-4041-AEC0-EB7CD57E4C12@livecode.org> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> <2621D01A-473E-4041-AEC0-EB7CD57E4C12@livecode.org> Message-ID: Hmmm, I had to bail on LC8? just not ready do deal with too many broken issues right now. I stuck in 7.1 for now? I like the project browser for several reasons (stopped using the application browser 3 months ago) 1) visual representation of objects is very helpful I 2) having the groups appear on the left panel with indents is visually easier to see hierarchy. AB has zero easy access to groups. This is my main problem with the AB 3) I like color where is geof?s plug in these days? BR On 10/7/15, 11:02 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Paul Hibbert" wrote: >I am one of the people that generally prefers the Application Browser to the Project Browser, but to be fair I don?t think I gave the PB enough attention to see any of it?s merits. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 7 19:08:40 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 16:08:40 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5615A5F8.9090305@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > At one point I was thinking of making a stack browser that behaved > like the column view in the finder but then I realised that the most > annoying thing about the application browser is its use of horizontal > space. Unfortunately it?s the use of horizontal space that makes it > more functional? I love Miller columns for many things, and started down that road once: I used that for all my MetaCard years, and even with LC until the Project Browser. I guess I'm in the minority who finds the PB fairly satisfying (though the speed is abysmal with thumbnails on). Back in my SuperCard days folks used to make object browsers almost as frequently as HyperCarders made Finder replacements . Some good ideas came from some of that, but I haven't seen one yet that makes me truly happy in all respects with features, performance, display clarity, and space. With so much commercial work to do it's been hard to justify time for object browsers once the PB came along and it was at least good enough for me. But if folks have time and interest there are many possibilities, and ideally we'd have a good many to choose from so everyone has exactly what they want. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 7 19:12:32 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:12:32 +1100 Subject: Basic grouches about LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <5615A27C.70703@fourthworld.com> References: <5615A27C.70703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <81E4F51F-DE16-44C2-89CC-7B967E50D85C@sweattechnologies.com> > On 8 Oct 2015, at 9:53 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > I have a tool in the works that'll help that conversation along.... Talking about tools in the works. Does anyone have a tool to identify inaccessible handlers, unused variables etc? I was poking in the IDE the other day and I noticed some code that clearly isn?t being used so it would be nice to run such a tool on the IDE. I guess it would be a non-trivial tool to write given the range of possible ways an object might have a handler called (engine message, dispatch, send, call, post from a lcb handler, some custom publish-subscribe system ? probably some other things I?ve forgotten). Cheers Monte From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Oct 7 19:20:05 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 16:20:05 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: IMO, Jacque makes a number of valid points. In the Project Browser, because stacks and cards are contained in the single view, a long list of controls will remove any stack and card references from view, while in the Application Browser, stacks and cards are always visible. It seems like applying an Application Browser layout to the Project Browser could make it more useful: move stack/card references to a left pane that is always visible. For myself, I also often rely on numerical references: card numbers, layer numbers, etc. Filtering in the Project Browser is great, but it's not the same as sorting offered by the Application Browser (AFAICT the Project Browser doesn't offer sorting that I can see). Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/7/15, 12:58 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" wrote: >On 10/7/2015 1:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project >> Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to >> maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's >> idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad >> about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would >> be happy with? > >The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large >stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per >card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I >haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't practical. > >1. The hierarchical organization of the App Browser (AB) is >indispensable and is the main reason I stay with it. I can see at a >glance how to drill down to the single object I am looking for and how >objects are organized on each card by group and layer order. It is by >far the fastest way to understand how a set of stacks is internally >structured. The long, scrolling list in the Project Browser (PB) can't >display the structure as clearly because it is all linear. Multiple >cards with many objects will run off the top and bottom of the PB window >and you can't see the overall organization. > >2. It is difficult in the PB to quickly find a specific object. If you >want to know the name of an object on some other card, you have to >collapse the current card, scroll through 50 cards to find the one >you're looking for (and if you didn't collapse those already, the >scrolling is interminable,) expand it, scroll through the objects to >find the one you want (note the name because it's going to be a long >trip to find it again,) collapse that card, scroll (forever) again to >find the card you started with, expand it, find the original object >again, and continue. In AB, I can just look at the left-hand pane and >see the name of the target card, click it, note the name of the object, >then click back where I was. If the AB is sized tall enough to hold 50 >lines of text, I don't have to do much scrolling at all. If I do need to >scroll, it's minimal because at least 25-30 cards are always visible at >once. > >2. In the AB I can click on any header to view the organization in many >ways, and I have a choice of which columns I want to display. If I want >to work only with images, or fields, I can bunch them together in the >list by type and they are quickly accessible while still allowing me to >see the other objects on the card. I frequently require info on layering >order, one click and I have that. I use the ID column extensively. In PB >I have to type in a filter string to isolate by object type, and then I >can no longer see any other objects, so if I need some other info I have >to remove the filter, find what I want, then reinstate the original >filter. PB does not offer a way to identify an object ID at all, as far >as I can see, and I need that all the time. (But you could turn off >those distracting ID tooltips for sure.) > >3. Visually, the PB is too cluttered to be quickly scanned. The >checkmarks in the AB are more useful. In the AB is very easy to see, for >example, which objects are invisible by simply looking for "gaps" in the >checkmark column. In the PB I have to examine each object individually >because the visual difference between the enabled and disabled "eye" >image is not distinct enough, and even if it were, there's that >scrolling issue again to see all the objects. Also, there is no single >column to scan -- the lock icon is interspersed so you have to mentally >learn to skip over every other icon. > >4. I have turned off thumbnails in the PB because with hundreds of >objects or more, the time required for it to constantly update is (or at >least, was) unacceptable. Even without thumbnails, it performs much >slower than the AB. There is also the issue of visual clutter (see >below) which is main reason I turned off thumbnails on day one. >Thumbnails also double the amount of scrolling you have to do to find >things. > >5. In the PB there is no clear delineation between cards and substacks. >Both are left-aligned at the same visual depth. In the AB, all stacks >are in the left pane, with substacks indented under their mainstack. >Also, in the PB, the stack you are inspecting scrolls off the top of the >window, so you are never sure which stack owns the cards that are >currently displayed. This is a big issue in my project, because all the >stacks are clones of each other and cards have the same names (usually >just IDs.) In the AB I can immediately see which stack owns the card >because the card is highlighted in the left-pane list under its >easily-viewable owner. Even if I have to scroll to see the stack name, >the card I'm working with remains selected and its objects remain visible. > >6. The icons at the bottom of the PB are so tiny on my screen that they >are difficult to recognize (and my eyesight isn't great anyway.) I have >to use the tooltips. That takes too long, so I just open the property >inspector or use the menu items instead. I suppose with some use I'd >memorize what each icon does, but the other issues have prevented me >from becoming familiar enough with it. > >That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with it. >I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my work style >unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar view rather than a >linear one. What I would have preferred is an update for the few >glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always refresh automatically, and >those blinking tooltips are positively aggressive) and give it a new >coat of paint if you think it looks too dated. Its plain text layout >with clear checkmarks is much easier for me to work with. I do like how >you can change layering order by dragging in the PB, that would be a >nice addition to the AB. > >-- >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Oct 7 19:58:50 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 01:58:50 +0200 Subject: [OT] Re-open question on SO Message-ID: <5615B1BA.8040108@economy-x-talk.com> Does anyone else have sufficient permissions to vote to re-open this question on Stackoverflow? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32991614/livecode-strict-isnumber-needed We still need 3 votes. -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 7 20:09:36 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 17:09:36 -0700 Subject: [OT] Re-open question on SO In-Reply-To: <5615B1BA.8040108@economy-x-talk.com> References: <5615B1BA.8040108@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <5615B440.8010502@fourthworld.com> Mark Schonewille wrote: > Does anyone else have sufficient permissions to vote to re-open this > question on Stackoverflow? > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32991614/livecode-strict-isnumber-needed > > We still need 3 votes. If you can figure out SO's permissions you're a better man than me. My only attempt to provide an answer there was deprecated as a comment from some random passerby admin because I also included a follow-up question. Why do they mark something as a duplicate without providing a link to the duplicate? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 7 20:31:19 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 00:31:19 +0000 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I think this thread illustrates the problem the team have trying to figure out what type of browser to implement. Everyone has their own ways of working and it's practically impossible to come up with a solution that will keep everyone happy. Perhaps the biggest divide is between the horizontal and vertical layout fans. My preference is for a vertical layout but I recognize that can cause a large amount of scrolling. I tried a few things to alleviate that in lcStackbrowser, for example, tabs with only one main stack in each tab and the ability to hide a specific stack or all except a specific stack. I find myself using a lot of groups in my designs and that helps a lot with the scrolling issue too, assuming groups are expandable/collapsible of course. A lot of the other PB problems fall into the missing functionality bucket. You should be able to sort objects in whatever way suits your mode of operation. lcStackBrowser allows sorting of cards by name, id, or number; controls by layer, id, type or name; with a default preference setting for each one. You can sort cards and controls differently for each stack/card. I do like the snapshot feature in the PB but not as an ever present thumbnail. In lcstackbrowser, you can display a snapshot of a specific, group, or control with either a contextual menu option or a keyboard shortcut. I also wanted access to properties without opening a property inspector window and lcStackbrowser has various ways to do that. You can edit an object's name, label, and (for simple text fields) its contents. Right click on an object and you will have access to all of its boolean properties. Finally, you can expand an object to show an editable list of properties, grouped the way that suits the way you work in preferences, with full type-specific editors, including an array editor. You can also customize just about every element of the display, reorganize the contextual menu items and add your own to them, and create/rollback to commented checkpoints of your stack. I don't pretend lcStackbrowser will be the ideal solution for everyone but I think the key to a successful implementation is a high degree of flexibility so users can customize it to suit their way of working. On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 4:21 PM Scott Rossi wrote: > IMO, Jacque makes a number of valid points. In the Project Browser, > because stacks and cards are contained in the single view, a long list of > controls will remove any stack and card references from view, while in the > Application Browser, stacks and cards are always visible. It seems like > applying an Application Browser layout to the Project Browser could make > it more useful: move stack/card references to a left pane that is always > visible. > > For myself, I also often rely on numerical references: card numbers, layer > numbers, etc. Filtering in the Project Browser is great, but it's not the > same as sorting offered by the Application Browser (AFAICT the Project > Browser doesn't offer sorting that I can see). > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 10/7/15, 12:58 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" > jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote: > > >On 10/7/2015 1:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project > >> Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to > >> maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's > >> idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad > >> about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would > >> be happy with? > > > >The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large > >stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per > >card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I > >haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't practical. > > > >1. The hierarchical organization of the App Browser (AB) is > >indispensable and is the main reason I stay with it. I can see at a > >glance how to drill down to the single object I am looking for and how > >objects are organized on each card by group and layer order. It is by > >far the fastest way to understand how a set of stacks is internally > >structured. The long, scrolling list in the Project Browser (PB) can't > >display the structure as clearly because it is all linear. Multiple > >cards with many objects will run off the top and bottom of the PB window > >and you can't see the overall organization. > > > >2. It is difficult in the PB to quickly find a specific object. If you > >want to know the name of an object on some other card, you have to > >collapse the current card, scroll through 50 cards to find the one > >you're looking for (and if you didn't collapse those already, the > >scrolling is interminable,) expand it, scroll through the objects to > >find the one you want (note the name because it's going to be a long > >trip to find it again,) collapse that card, scroll (forever) again to > >find the card you started with, expand it, find the original object > >again, and continue. In AB, I can just look at the left-hand pane and > >see the name of the target card, click it, note the name of the object, > >then click back where I was. If the AB is sized tall enough to hold 50 > >lines of text, I don't have to do much scrolling at all. If I do need to > >scroll, it's minimal because at least 25-30 cards are always visible at > >once. > > > >2. In the AB I can click on any header to view the organization in many > >ways, and I have a choice of which columns I want to display. If I want > >to work only with images, or fields, I can bunch them together in the > >list by type and they are quickly accessible while still allowing me to > >see the other objects on the card. I frequently require info on layering > >order, one click and I have that. I use the ID column extensively. In PB > >I have to type in a filter string to isolate by object type, and then I > >can no longer see any other objects, so if I need some other info I have > >to remove the filter, find what I want, then reinstate the original > >filter. PB does not offer a way to identify an object ID at all, as far > >as I can see, and I need that all the time. (But you could turn off > >those distracting ID tooltips for sure.) > > > >3. Visually, the PB is too cluttered to be quickly scanned. The > >checkmarks in the AB are more useful. In the AB is very easy to see, for > >example, which objects are invisible by simply looking for "gaps" in the > >checkmark column. In the PB I have to examine each object individually > >because the visual difference between the enabled and disabled "eye" > >image is not distinct enough, and even if it were, there's that > >scrolling issue again to see all the objects. Also, there is no single > >column to scan -- the lock icon is interspersed so you have to mentally > >learn to skip over every other icon. > > > >4. I have turned off thumbnails in the PB because with hundreds of > >objects or more, the time required for it to constantly update is (or at > >least, was) unacceptable. Even without thumbnails, it performs much > >slower than the AB. There is also the issue of visual clutter (see > >below) which is main reason I turned off thumbnails on day one. > >Thumbnails also double the amount of scrolling you have to do to find > >things. > > > >5. In the PB there is no clear delineation between cards and substacks. > >Both are left-aligned at the same visual depth. In the AB, all stacks > >are in the left pane, with substacks indented under their mainstack. > >Also, in the PB, the stack you are inspecting scrolls off the top of the > >window, so you are never sure which stack owns the cards that are > >currently displayed. This is a big issue in my project, because all the > >stacks are clones of each other and cards have the same names (usually > >just IDs.) In the AB I can immediately see which stack owns the card > >because the card is highlighted in the left-pane list under its > >easily-viewable owner. Even if I have to scroll to see the stack name, > >the card I'm working with remains selected and its objects remain visible. > > > >6. The icons at the bottom of the PB are so tiny on my screen that they > >are difficult to recognize (and my eyesight isn't great anyway.) I have > >to use the tooltips. That takes too long, so I just open the property > >inspector or use the menu items instead. I suppose with some use I'd > >memorize what each icon does, but the other issues have prevented me > >from becoming familiar enough with it. > > > >That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with it. > >I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my work style > >unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar view rather than a > >linear one. What I would have preferred is an update for the few > >glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always refresh automatically, and > >those blinking tooltips are positively aggressive) and give it a new > >coat of paint if you think it looks too dated. Its plain text layout > >with clear checkmarks is much easier for me to work with. I do like how > >you can change layering order by dragging in the PB, that would be a > >nice addition to the AB. > > > >-- > >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Oct 7 21:12:04 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 18:12:04 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Agreed that satisfying everybody will never happen, but I would argue that the dual-pane approach of the Application Browser can display more information in a single view than the Project Browser. IMO, accessing multiple stacks is more efficient using this approach compared to using a single scrolling list. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/7/15, 5:31 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Peter Haworth" wrote: >I think this thread illustrates the problem the team have trying to figure >out what type of browser to implement. Everyone has their own ways of >working and it's practically impossible to come up with a solution that >will keep everyone happy. > >Perhaps the biggest divide is between the horizontal and vertical layout >fans. My preference is for a vertical layout but I recognize that can >cause a large amount of scrolling. I tried a few things to alleviate that >in lcStackbrowser, for example, tabs with only one main stack in each tab >and the ability to hide a specific stack or all except a specific stack. > >I find myself using a lot of groups in my designs and that helps a lot >with >the scrolling issue too, assuming groups are expandable/collapsible of >course. > >A lot of the other PB problems fall into the missing functionality >bucket. You should be able to sort objects in whatever way suits your >mode >of operation. lcStackBrowser allows sorting of cards by name, id, or >number; controls by layer, id, type or name; with a default preference >setting for each one. You can sort cards and controls differently for >each >stack/card. > >I do like the snapshot feature in the PB but not as an ever present >thumbnail. In lcstackbrowser, you can display a snapshot of a specific, >group, or control with either a contextual menu option or a keyboard >shortcut. > >I also wanted access to properties without opening a property inspector >window and lcStackbrowser has various ways to do that. You can edit an >object's name, label, and (for simple text fields) its contents. Right >click on an object and you will have access to all of its boolean >properties. Finally, you can expand an object to show an editable list of >properties, grouped the way that suits the way you work in preferences, >with full type-specific editors, including an array editor. > >You can also customize just about every element of the display, reorganize >the contextual menu items and add your own to them, and create/rollback to >commented checkpoints of your stack. > >I don't pretend lcStackbrowser will be the ideal solution for everyone but >I think the key to a successful implementation is a high degree of >flexibility so users can customize it to suit their way of working. > > > > > >On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 4:21 PM Scott Rossi wrote: > >> IMO, Jacque makes a number of valid points. In the Project Browser, >> because stacks and cards are contained in the single view, a long list >>of >> controls will remove any stack and card references from view, while in >>the >> Application Browser, stacks and cards are always visible. It seems like >> applying an Application Browser layout to the Project Browser could make >> it more useful: move stack/card references to a left pane that is always >> visible. >> >> For myself, I also often rely on numerical references: card numbers, >>layer >> numbers, etc. Filtering in the Project Browser is great, but it's not >>the >> same as sorting offered by the Application Browser (AFAICT the Project >> Browser doesn't offer sorting that I can see). >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> On 10/7/15, 12:58 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" >> > jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote: >> >> >On 10/7/2015 1:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project >> >> Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to >> >> maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so >>Ali's >> >> idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and >>bad >> >> about both and is it possible to design something which everybody >>would >> >> be happy with? >> > >> >The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large >> >stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per >> >card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I >> >haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't >>practical. >> > >> >1. The hierarchical organization of the App Browser (AB) is >> >indispensable and is the main reason I stay with it. I can see at a >> >glance how to drill down to the single object I am looking for and how >> >objects are organized on each card by group and layer order. It is by >> >far the fastest way to understand how a set of stacks is internally >> >structured. The long, scrolling list in the Project Browser (PB) can't >> >display the structure as clearly because it is all linear. Multiple >> >cards with many objects will run off the top and bottom of the PB >>window >> >and you can't see the overall organization. >> > >> >2. It is difficult in the PB to quickly find a specific object. If you >> >want to know the name of an object on some other card, you have to >> >collapse the current card, scroll through 50 cards to find the one >> >you're looking for (and if you didn't collapse those already, the >> >scrolling is interminable,) expand it, scroll through the objects to >> >find the one you want (note the name because it's going to be a long >> >trip to find it again,) collapse that card, scroll (forever) again to >> >find the card you started with, expand it, find the original object >> >again, and continue. In AB, I can just look at the left-hand pane and >> >see the name of the target card, click it, note the name of the object, >> >then click back where I was. If the AB is sized tall enough to hold 50 >> >lines of text, I don't have to do much scrolling at all. If I do need >>to >> >scroll, it's minimal because at least 25-30 cards are always visible at >> >once. >> > >> >2. In the AB I can click on any header to view the organization in many >> >ways, and I have a choice of which columns I want to display. If I want >> >to work only with images, or fields, I can bunch them together in the >> >list by type and they are quickly accessible while still allowing me to >> >see the other objects on the card. I frequently require info on >>layering >> >order, one click and I have that. I use the ID column extensively. In >>PB >> >I have to type in a filter string to isolate by object type, and then I >> >can no longer see any other objects, so if I need some other info I >>have >> >to remove the filter, find what I want, then reinstate the original >> >filter. PB does not offer a way to identify an object ID at all, as far >> >as I can see, and I need that all the time. (But you could turn off >> >those distracting ID tooltips for sure.) >> > >> >3. Visually, the PB is too cluttered to be quickly scanned. The >> >checkmarks in the AB are more useful. In the AB is very easy to see, >>for >> >example, which objects are invisible by simply looking for "gaps" in >>the >> >checkmark column. In the PB I have to examine each object individually >> >because the visual difference between the enabled and disabled "eye" >> >image is not distinct enough, and even if it were, there's that >> >scrolling issue again to see all the objects. Also, there is no single >> >column to scan -- the lock icon is interspersed so you have to mentally >> >learn to skip over every other icon. >> > >> >4. I have turned off thumbnails in the PB because with hundreds of >> >objects or more, the time required for it to constantly update is (or >>at >> >least, was) unacceptable. Even without thumbnails, it performs much >> >slower than the AB. There is also the issue of visual clutter (see >> >below) which is main reason I turned off thumbnails on day one. >> >Thumbnails also double the amount of scrolling you have to do to find >> >things. >> > >> >5. In the PB there is no clear delineation between cards and substacks. >> >Both are left-aligned at the same visual depth. In the AB, all stacks >> >are in the left pane, with substacks indented under their mainstack. >> >Also, in the PB, the stack you are inspecting scrolls off the top of >>the >> >window, so you are never sure which stack owns the cards that are >> >currently displayed. This is a big issue in my project, because all the >> >stacks are clones of each other and cards have the same names (usually >> >just IDs.) In the AB I can immediately see which stack owns the card >> >because the card is highlighted in the left-pane list under its >> >easily-viewable owner. Even if I have to scroll to see the stack name, >> >the card I'm working with remains selected and its objects remain >>visible. >> > >> >6. The icons at the bottom of the PB are so tiny on my screen that they >> >are difficult to recognize (and my eyesight isn't great anyway.) I have >> >to use the tooltips. That takes too long, so I just open the property >> >inspector or use the menu items instead. I suppose with some use I'd >> >memorize what each icon does, but the other issues have prevented me >> >from becoming familiar enough with it. >> > >> >That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with it. >> >I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my work style >> >unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar view rather than a >> >linear one. What I would have preferred is an update for the few >> >glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always refresh automatically, and >> >those blinking tooltips are positively aggressive) and give it a new >> >coat of paint if you think it looks too dated. Its plain text layout >> >with clear checkmarks is much easier for me to work with. I do like how >> >you can change layering order by dragging in the PB, that would be a >> >nice addition to the AB. >> > >> >-- >> >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >use-livecode mailing list >> >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >subscription preferences: >> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Oct 7 21:38:32 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:38:32 -0400 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Oct 7, 2015 3:02 PM, "Mark Waddingham" wrote: > > As an indication of community division it might be useful - app browser/project browser/indifferent. > > However, I'm not sure a poll would give us the information we need as it is too binary. I personally don't like either one. I rarely open AB or PB unless I'm having trouble visualizing where an object exists within layers and groups. I would prefer something like Windows 7 has when you hold the Super-key press TAB and all the open applications appear in a angled 3D view. If a stack could do that, and I could scroll through the actual-size controls in an exploded 3D view, pick and relayer or edit the script of objects, it would feel so much more 'real' and even jarvis-like. Bring us a future IDE that feels like it fell out of sci-fi, not just big icons of every object in a stack including groups. ~Roger From colinholgate at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 22:15:42 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:15:42 -0400 Subject: [OT] Re-open question on SO In-Reply-To: <5615B1BA.8040108@economy-x-talk.com> References: <5615B1BA.8040108@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: I don?t see how to vote. > On Oct 7, 2015, at 7:58 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > Does anyone else have sufficient permissions to vote to re-open this question on Stackoverflow? > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32991614/livecode-strict-isnumber-needed > > We still need 3 votes. > > -- > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Oct 7 22:47:17 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:47:17 -0500 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5615D935.3030907@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/7/2015 6:20 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > IMO, Jacque makes a number of valid points. In the Project Browser, > because stacks and cards are contained in the single view, a long list of > controls will remove any stack and card references from view, while in the > Application Browser, stacks and cards are always visible. It seems like > applying an Application Browser layout to the Project Browser could make > it more useful: move stack/card references to a left pane that is always > visible. > > For myself, I also often rely on numerical references: card numbers, layer > numbers, etc. Filtering in the Project Browser is great, but it's not the > same as sorting offered by the Application Browser (AFAICT the Project > Browser doesn't offer sorting that I can see). You can choose to sort layers from top to bottom, or bottom to top in Preferences, but there's no option to sort by anything other than layers. Suppose the project browser had a slide-out left panel that listed the stacks and cards, like the app browser does now? Maybe it could be a preference, and if it's turned off, the PB works the way it currently does. If the panel option is turned on, it would keep its selection but get out of the way if you need the screen space. People could choose if they wanted to view by stack/card/object hierarchy with a panel, or just single-list as it is now. I definitely need card numbers and object IDs. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Oct 7 23:19:48 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 20:19:48 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> Message-ID: As soon as we get a means to irregularly distort images, I'm all for that :-P Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/7/15, 6:38 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Roger Eller" wrote: >On Oct 7, 2015 3:02 PM, "Mark Waddingham" wrote: >> >> As an indication of community division it might be useful - app >browser/project browser/indifferent. >> >> However, I'm not sure a poll would give us the information we need as it >is too binary. > >I personally don't like either one. I rarely open AB or PB unless I'm >having trouble visualizing where an object exists within layers and >groups. I would prefer something like Windows 7 has when you hold the >Super-key press TAB and all the open applications appear in a angled 3D >view. If a stack could do that, and I could scroll through the >actual-size >controls in an exploded 3D view, pick and relayer or edit the script of >objects, it would feel so much more 'real' and even jarvis-like. Bring us >a future IDE that feels like it fell out of sci-fi, not just big icons of >every object in a stack including groups. > >~Roger >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Oct 7 23:21:45 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:21:45 -0700 Subject: How Film Sets and Coding Are Equally Important In-Reply-To: <96A853DF-11B2-42AC-A1E3-55DE5C52ADDA@iotecdigital.com> References: <76c15c6b696bbaa1e441196f40ba170a.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> <90C381D8-F83C-4D55-99BD-30F2E088178D@iotecdigital.com> <561417AD.4070102@gmail.com> <56141B07.4010505@gmail.com> <56145842.5000908@ahsoftware.net> <96A853DF-11B2-42AC-A1E3-55DE5C52ADDA@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5615E149.5070500@ahsoftware.net> On 10/07/2015 07:56 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > If I may be so bold as to disagree, You're not disagreeing, it's just my lack of clarity in what I posted earlier. Amoral implies apathy, a lack of interest in taking a position. It's much easier to deal with someone or something with a defined stance than to have to be constantly on guard for the unknown. I'd much rather deal with people who disagree with me than with those who can't be bothered to have opinions. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Oct 7 23:25:32 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:25:32 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5615E22C.7050206@ahsoftware.net> On 10/07/2015 11:54 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > So if we had deleted the app browser stack from the build, would your point of view have changed and would you have started to use the project browser? ;) Wow. I step away for a day and look what happens. Interesting question. I'd probably stay with previous builds and cut my ties with a company that's out of touch with its user base. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Wed Oct 7 23:44:59 2015 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 03:44:59 +0000 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <5615D935.3030907@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> <5615D935.3030907@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Like others I find the left pane of the app browser pretty useful. I?ve given the project browser a number of runs but usually end up returning to the app browser because of the way it displays (simply) stacks and cards. I don?t much like the right pane of the app browser when there are lots of objects involved, particularly if they are in nested groups but I usually find myself struggling amongst those lists rather than opening up a second tool (project browser). My ideal hybrid would probably take the left pane of the app browser and place the card controls of the project browser in the right pane, maintaining the expandable/collapsible UI of the project browser. Add in a layer number for each control and it?s all good. The only other thing would be a way to collapse all the controls in the right pane (unless it?s already there and I?ve missed it). Do that and I?ll happily let go of the app browser and never look back. Terry... On 8/10/2015 1:47 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" wrote: >On 10/7/2015 6:20 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: >> IMO, Jacque makes a number of valid points. In the Project Browser, >> because stacks and cards are contained in the single view, a long list >>of >> controls will remove any stack and card references from view, while in >>the >> Application Browser, stacks and cards are always visible. It seems like >> applying an Application Browser layout to the Project Browser could make >> it more useful: move stack/card references to a left pane that is always >> visible. >> >> For myself, I also often rely on numerical references: card numbers, >>layer >> numbers, etc. Filtering in the Project Browser is great, but it's not >>the >> same as sorting offered by the Application Browser (AFAICT the Project >> Browser doesn't offer sorting that I can see). > >You can choose to sort layers from top to bottom, or bottom to top in >Preferences, but there's no option to sort by anything other than layers. > >Suppose the project browser had a slide-out left panel that listed the >stacks and cards, like the app browser does now? Maybe it could be a >preference, and if it's turned off, the PB works the way it currently >does. If the panel option is turned on, it would keep its selection but >get out of the way if you need the screen space. People could choose if >they wanted to view by stack/card/object hierarchy with a panel, or just >single-list as it is now. > >I definitely need card numbers and object IDs. > >-- >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jhj at jhj.com Wed Oct 7 23:53:45 2015 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:53:45 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9C9A9229-179B-48E7-8AE5-EC6D714C3870@jhj.com> What Scott and Jacque wrote. I might add that it doesn?t take many controls to get confusing. Just a few modTableFields (thanks, Bernd!) that have fields named the same, and you can easily be lost. I can guess it would be even more confusing with datagrids. .Jerry > On Oct 7, 2015, at 4:20 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > IMO, Jacque makes a number of valid points. In the Project Browser, > because stacks and cards are contained in the single view, a long list of > controls will remove any stack and card references from view, while in the > Application Browser, stacks and cards are always visible. It seems like > applying an Application Browser layout to the Project Browser could make > it more useful: move stack/card references to a left pane that is always > visible. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 8 00:56:54 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 15:56:54 +1100 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 8 Oct 2015, at 2:19 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: > > As soon as we get a means to irregularly distort images, I'm all for that How do you want to distort them? There?s an underlying affine transformation these days doing angle, flip & resize so anything you can do with affine transformations is up for grabs without huge amounts of effort. From rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch Thu Oct 8 02:31:15 2015 From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 08:31:15 +0200 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 from me Cheers Rolf > Agreed that satisfying everybody will never happen, but I would argue that > the dual-pane approach of the Application Browser can display more > information in a single view than the Project Browser. IMO, accessing > multiple stacks is more efficient using this approach compared to using a > single scrolling list. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 8 02:37:28 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 23:37:28 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> Message-ID: I had to look up "affine" (dude, you're getting technical) and my impression is this type of distortion could be useful. There appears to be a type of transformation named "projective" which, if I understand what it does, would be ideal. Anyway, I posted an example here that illustrates the desired options in LiveCode terms: good (single axis distortion) and best (irregular distortion). http://tactilemedia.com/download/image_distortion.jpg :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/7/15, 9:56 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Monte Goulding" wrote: > >> On 8 Oct 2015, at 2:19 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: >> >> As soon as we get a means to irregularly distort images, I'm all for >>that > >How do you want to distort them? There?s an underlying affine >transformation these days doing angle, flip & resize so anything you can >do with affine transformations is up for grabs without huge amounts of >effort. > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Thu Oct 8 02:47:02 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 23:47:02 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5637110A-1C9C-4C6F-BF54-7037516917C6@livecode.org> This would be awesome! Paul > On 7 Oct 2015, at 23:37, Scott Rossi wrote: > > I had to look up "affine" (dude, you're getting technical) and my > impression is this type of distortion could be useful. There appears to > be a type of transformation named "projective" which, if I understand what > it does, would be ideal. > > Anyway, I posted an example here that illustrates the desired options in > LiveCode terms: good (single axis distortion) and best (irregular > distortion). http://tactilemedia.com/download/image_distortion.jpg > > :-) > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 10/7/15, 9:56 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Monte Goulding" > monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > >> >>> On 8 Oct 2015, at 2:19 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: >>> >>> As soon as we get a means to irregularly distort images, I'm all for >>> that >> >> How do you want to distort them? There?s an underlying affine >> transformation these days doing angle, flip & resize so anything you can >> do with affine transformations is up for grabs without huge amounts of >> effort. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 02:51:19 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:51:19 +0200 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56156C34.9000204@economy-x-talk.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> <56156C34.9000204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-07 21:02, Mark Schonewille wrote: > That is a strange question: if we take away something you like, would > you use the one and only thing that's left? I can see how (out of context) my question could have appeared to be that, but it wasn't. The previous post had indicated the following: Was excited about a new component and tried Project Browser. Did not see any advantages over the Application Browser. Went back to Application Browser. Continues to see Application Browser there, so continues to use Application Browser. i.e. There is was a strong hint that continued usage of the Application Browser was related to its presence, rather than fondness. Essentially I was trying to determine whether it was familiarity or like which was the issue here. So - yes - apologies for the slightly obscure and easy to take out of context question (it probably didn't help it was top-posted due to using iPhone mail, and not interleaved!). Warmest Regards, Mark -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 8 03:06:48 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:06:48 +1100 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 8 Oct 2015, at 5:37 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Anyway, I posted an example here that illustrates the desired options in > LiveCode terms: good (single axis distortion) and best (irregular > distortion). http://tactilemedia.com/download/image_distortion.jpg I think will affine transformations you can skew on both axes but I think projective is a step up. The engine has functions for affine skew already so it sould be relatively easy to add skewX skewY properties to an image. The projective stuff would need investigation on whether Skia supports it. From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Thu Oct 8 03:26:31 2015 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 00:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1444289191302-4697023.post@n4.nabble.com> I tend to use the AP more than PB. I find the 2 column layout easier to navigate and quicker for finding what I want in a larger project. In my view to make the AP better would just require. 1. A collapse button to collapse the RHS column so that the AP takes up less screen. 2. A filter field as in the current PB. 3. The OPTION to have thumbnails in as per the PB ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/App-Browser-versus-Project-Browser-tp4696976p4697023.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From toolbook at kestner.de Thu Oct 8 03:38:14 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:38:14 +0200 Subject: AW: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <003d01d1019c$4b2b7440$e1825cc0$@kestner.de> +1 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von J. Landman Gay Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. Oktober 2015 21:58 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: App Browser versus Project Browser On 10/7/2015 1:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project > Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to > maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so > Ali's idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good > and bad about both and is it possible to design something which > everybody would be happy with? The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't practical. 1. The hierarchical organization of the App Browser (AB) is indispensable and is the main reason I stay with it. I can see at a glance how to drill down to the single object I am looking for and how objects are organized on each card by group and layer order. It is by far the fastest way to understand how a set of stacks is internally structured. The long, scrolling list in the Project Browser (PB) can't display the structure as clearly because it is all linear. Multiple cards with many objects will run off the top and bottom of the PB window and you can't see the overall organization. 2. It is difficult in the PB to quickly find a specific object. If you want to know the name of an object on some other card, you have to collapse the current card, scroll through 50 cards to find the one you're looking for (and if you didn't collapse those already, the scrolling is interminable,) expand it, scroll through the objects to find the one you want (note the name because it's going to be a long trip to find it again,) collapse that card, scroll (forever) again to find the card you started with, expand it, find the original object again, and continue. In AB, I can just look at the left-hand pane and see the name of the target card, click it, note the name of the object, then click back where I was. If the AB is sized tall enough to hold 50 lines of text, I don't have to do much scrolling at all. If I do need to scroll, it's minimal because at least 25-30 cards are always visible at once. 2. In the AB I can click on any header to view the organization in many ways, and I have a choice of which columns I want to display. If I want to work only with images, or fields, I can bunch them together in the list by type and they are quickly accessible while still allowing me to see the other objects on the card. I frequently require info on layering order, one click and I have that. I use the ID column extensively. In PB I have to type in a filter string to isolate by object type, and then I can no longer see any other objects, so if I need some other info I have to remove the filter, find what I want, then reinstate the original filter. PB does not offer a way to identify an object ID at all, as far as I can see, and I need that all the time. (But you could turn off those distracting ID tooltips for sure.) 3. Visually, the PB is too cluttered to be quickly scanned. The checkmarks in the AB are more useful. In the AB is very easy to see, for example, which objects are invisible by simply looking for "gaps" in the checkmark column. In the PB I have to examine each object individually because the visual difference between the enabled and disabled "eye" image is not distinct enough, and even if it were, there's that scrolling issue again to see all the objects. Also, there is no single column to scan -- the lock icon is interspersed so you have to mentally learn to skip over every other icon. 4. I have turned off thumbnails in the PB because with hundreds of objects or more, the time required for it to constantly update is (or at least, was) unacceptable. Even without thumbnails, it performs much slower than the AB. There is also the issue of visual clutter (see below) which is main reason I turned off thumbnails on day one. Thumbnails also double the amount of scrolling you have to do to find things. 5. In the PB there is no clear delineation between cards and substacks. Both are left-aligned at the same visual depth. In the AB, all stacks are in the left pane, with substacks indented under their mainstack. Also, in the PB, the stack you are inspecting scrolls off the top of the window, so you are never sure which stack owns the cards that are currently displayed. This is a big issue in my project, because all the stacks are clones of each other and cards have the same names (usually just IDs.) In the AB I can immediately see which stack owns the card because the card is highlighted in the left-pane list under its easily-viewable owner. Even if I have to scroll to see the stack name, the card I'm working with remains selected and its objects remain visible. 6. The icons at the bottom of the PB are so tiny on my screen that they are difficult to recognize (and my eyesight isn't great anyway.) I have to use the tooltips. That takes too long, so I just open the property inspector or use the menu items instead. I suppose with some use I'd memorize what each icon does, but the other issues have prevented me from becoming familiar enough with it. That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with it. I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my work style unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar view rather than a linear one. What I would have preferred is an update for the few glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always refresh automatically, and those blinking tooltips are positively aggressive) and give it a new coat of paint if you think it looks too dated. Its plain text layout with clear checkmarks is much easier for me to work with. I do like how you can change layering order by dragging in the PB, that would be a nice addition to the AB. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Thu Oct 8 04:01:12 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:01:12 +0200 Subject: How to assign icons to a button AND show the name? Message-ID: <003e01d1019f$802ff730$808fe590$@kestner.de> Hello, I want to assign four different icons for active-hilite-hover-disabled to a button AND show the name/label of the button. Assigning the icon works fine, showing the name also, but when having icons AND showing the name, the icon will be pushed up and half out of the borders of the button. I tried all kinds of settings with margins, border, and other properties, but didn't find a way, how I can show the name/label of the button over a centered full size icon. I can workaround this by putting the label into the icon images, but then I have the "blurred issue" of text in bitmap images. And creating a nice option menu with icons also is a hassle. I also tried to workaround with putting the images into a group of the button, but didn't succeeded to simulate the four button states, when hovering and clicking. Is this a bug, wanted, or do I oversee anything? Thanks Tiemo From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 8 04:21:43 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 01:21:43 -0700 Subject: How to assign icons to a button AND show the name? In-Reply-To: <003e01d1019f$802ff730$808fe590$@kestner.de> References: <003e01d1019f$802ff730$808fe590$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Hi Tiemo: What version of LiveCode? In LC 6.7 and later you can set the iconGravity property of a button, but in pre 6.7 versions, icon positioning is somewhat limited. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/8/15, 1:01 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Tiemo Hollmann TB" wrote: >Hello, > >I want to assign four different icons for active-hilite-hover-disabled to >a >button AND show the name/label of the button. > >Assigning the icon works fine, showing the name also, but when having >icons >AND showing the name, the icon will be pushed up and half out of the >borders >of the button. I tried all kinds of settings with margins, border, and >other >properties, but didn't find a way, how I can show the name/label of the >button over a centered full size icon. > >I can workaround this by putting the label into the icon images, but then >I >have the "blurred issue" of text in bitmap images. And creating a nice >option menu with icons also is a hassle. > >I also tried to workaround with putting the images into a group of the >button, but didn't succeeded to simulate the four button states, when >hovering and clicking. > >Is this a bug, wanted, or do I oversee anything? > >Thanks > >Tiemo > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Thu Oct 8 05:10:11 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:10:11 +0200 Subject: AW: How to assign icons to a button AND show the name? In-Reply-To: References: <003e01d1019f$802ff730$808fe590$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <004a01d101a9$22f4bba0$68de32e0$@kestner.de> Hi Scott - wow! What a surprise, thats just what I was looking for and it works. It seems to be a new hidden property, not to be edited from the inspectors palette. Thanks Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Scott Rossi Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2015 10:22 An: LiveCode Mail List Betreff: Re: How to assign icons to a button AND show the name? Hi Tiemo: What version of LiveCode? In LC 6.7 and later you can set the iconGravity property of a button, but in pre 6.7 versions, icon positioning is somewhat limited. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/8/15, 1:01 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Tiemo Hollmann TB" wrote: >Hello, > >I want to assign four different icons for active-hilite-hover-disabled >to a button AND show the name/label of the button. > >Assigning the icon works fine, showing the name also, but when having >icons AND showing the name, the icon will be pushed up and half out of >the borders of the button. I tried all kinds of settings with margins, >border, and other properties, but didn't find a way, how I can show the >name/label of the button over a centered full size icon. > >I can workaround this by putting the label into the icon images, but >then I have the "blurred issue" of text in bitmap images. And creating >a nice option menu with icons also is a hassle. > >I also tried to workaround with putting the images into a group of the >button, but didn't succeeded to simulate the four button states, when >hovering and clicking. > >Is this a bug, wanted, or do I oversee anything? > >Thanks > >Tiemo > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 05:14:14 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:14:14 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector Message-ID: So that this does not get lost in the Project Browser / App Browser thread, I've split it off into a separate topic: On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 8:04 PM Richmond wrote: > While I'm on a roll, I could also point out that I cannot see any > obvious advantages in the complete > remake of the Preference Palette in LiveCode 8. There may not be many immediately obvious advantages to the new property inspector, but there are two extraordinarily significant related ones: 1) Widget properties would not work with the old inspector. You would perhaps have to create individual stacks for each widget and have its card copied to the inspector. This is really not practical or viable in the long term. The new inspector just requires a few lines of metadata in the widget file specifying what type of editor to use for a given property. Everything else happens automatically. 2) The new inspector is *really* flexible for the classic objects. Have a look at this fix for bug 16118 (no way to change a scrollbar's tooltip in the property inspector): https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/562/files We'd like to make it as good and useful as possible. If the worst you can say is you can't see any advantages, then I think the non-obvious ones above make it well worth it ;-) Otherwise it would be great to hear constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement. Ali From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Oct 8 06:27:23 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:27:23 +0200 Subject: LiveCode Meeting Message-ID: Beste mensen, Vergeet niet dat we morgen bijeenkomen in Breda! Bij deze nog een keer alle informatie. We hebben intussen ook een volle agenda. Ik zal proberen die vanavond nog even door te sturen. Don't forget the meeting in Breda tomorrow! Here is all the info one more time. We also have a full agenda now. I'll try to forward the agenda tonight. Mark Hi everyone, (zie onder voor de Nederlandse versie van dit bericht) On Friday 9th October 2015, a LiveCode meeting is organised. At this meeting, participants will introduce their own projects and products, from amateur to professional, from beginner to advanced. We'll probably make more announcements, about talks or presentations, tomorrow. Participants will get an opportunity to experiment with Arduino. For those who aren't too technical, we'll a ?workshop? about creating capacitive buttons for Arduino (a perfect beginners' project). If you're more experienced with electronics, we'll have some materials available to experiment with (resistors, cables, LEDs, motors, etc.) If you have an Arduino, please bring it with you. During the meeting, I'll raffle off a copy of ?Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner? and a license for Roger Wagner's HyperStudio. Go tohttp://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com for more information about the book and to http://www.hyperstudio.com for more information about HyperStudio. You also might want to visit http://www.hyperduino.com Op de bijeenkomst zal ik een exemplaar van ?Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner? en een licentie voor Roger Wagners HyperStudio verloten. Go naarhttp://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com voor meer informatie over het boek en http://www.hyperstudio.com voor meer informatie over HyperStudio. Wellicht wil je ook de website http://www.hyperduino.com bekijken. Entrance is free. All consumptions are on your own account. After the meeting, we'll go somewhere for dinner and you can join if you like. Date and time: 9th October 2015, from 12:00 until 16:00 Place: Apollo Hotel , Stationsplein 14, Breda, the Netherlands Registration: contact support at economy-x-talk.com Op vrijdag 9 oktober 2015 wordt er een LiveCode-bijeenkomst georganiseerd. Op deze bijeenkomst zullen deelnemers hun projecten of producten laten zien, van amateur tot professional, van beginner tot gevorderd. We zullen daar waarschijnlijk morgen meer informatie over kunnen geven. Deelnemers krijgen de mogelijkheid met Arduino te experimenteren. Wie niet zo technische is kan een aan ?workshop? over het maken van capacitieve buttons meedoen (een prima project voor beginners). Als je wat meer ervaring met electronica hebt, hebben we wat materiaal beschikbaar om mee te experimenteren (weerstanden, kabels, LED's, motoren, enz.) Als je zelf een Arduino hebt, neem hem dan a.u.b. mee. Op de bijeenkomst zal ik een exemplaar van ?Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner? en een licentie voor Roger Wagners HyperStudio verloten. Go naarhttp://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com voor meer informatie over het boek en http://www.hyperstudio.com voor meer informatie over HyperStudio. Wellicht wil je ook de website http://www.hyperduino.com bekijken. Toegang gratis. Alle consumpties zijn voor eigen rekening. Na de bijeenkomst zullen we, met eenieder die dat ook wil, ergens gaan eten. Datum en tijd: 9 oktober 2015, van 12:00 tot 16:00 plaats: Apollo Hotel, Stationsplein 14, Breda Registratie: neem contact op met support at economy-x-talk.com -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 07:14:19 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:14:19 +0300 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5616500B.8010905@gmail.com> On 08/10/15 12:14, Ali Lloyd wrote: > So that this does not get lost in the Project Browser / App Browser thread, > I've split it off into a separate topic: > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 8:04 PM Richmond wrote: > >> While I'm on a roll, I could also point out that I cannot see any >> obvious advantages in the complete >> remake of the Preference Palette in LiveCode 8. > > There may not be many immediately obvious advantages to the new property > inspector, but there are two extraordinarily significant related ones: > > 1) Widget properties would not work with the old inspector. You would > perhaps have to create individual stacks for each widget and have its card > copied to the inspector. This is really not practical or viable in the long > term. > > The new inspector just requires a few lines of metadata in the widget file > specifying what type of editor to use for a given property. Everything else > happens automatically. > > 2) The new inspector is *really* flexible for the classic objects. Have a > look at this fix for bug 16118 (no way to change a scrollbar's tooltip in > the property inspector): > https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/562/files > > > We'd like to make it as good and useful as possible. If the worst you can > say is you can't see any advantages, then I think the non-obvious ones > above make it well worth it ;-) Otherwise it would be great to hear > constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement. > > Ali > _______________________________________________ > While your points #1 and #2 are true, I'm sure, that does not explain why the RunRev team decided their had to be a complete overhaul in what the thing looked like . . . Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 07:31:19 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:31:19 +0300 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25526 From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Oct 8 07:44:43 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 07:44:43 -0400 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156A4B.8000806@economy-x-talk.com> <19AF4501-D7C2-4960-9616-34BEEA1C5900@livecode.com> Message-ID: I'm going to abandon AB and PB as soon as RB (Rossi Browser) is ready! ;-D On Oct 8, 2015 3:07 AM, "Monte Goulding" wrote: > > > On 8 Oct 2015, at 5:37 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: > > > > Anyway, I posted an example here that illustrates the desired options in > > LiveCode terms: good (single axis distortion) and best (irregular > > distortion). http://tactilemedia.com/download/image_distortion.jpg < > http://tactilemedia.com/download/image_distortion.jpg> > I think will affine transformations you can skew on both axes but I think > projective is a step up. The engine has functions for affine skew already > so it sould be relatively easy to add skewX skewY properties to an image. > The projective stuff would need investigation on whether Skia supports it. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Thu Oct 8 08:43:05 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 05:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> <56156C34.9000204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <1444308185514-4697033.post@n4.nabble.com> I am following this discussion and I have the impression that Project Browser refers to the one in LC 7. Ali posted in a different thread (that is why I quote him here) > There may not be many immediately obvious advantages to the new property > inspector, but there are two extraordinarily significant related ones: > > 1) Widget properties would not work with the old inspector. You would > perhaps have to create individual stacks for each widget and have its card > copied to the inspector. This is really not practical or viable in the > long > term. > > The new inspector just requires a few lines of metadata in the widget file > specifying what type of editor to use for a given property. Everything > else > happens automatically. > > 2) The new inspector is *really* flexible for the classic objects. Have a > look at this fix for bug 16118 (no way to change a scrollbar's tooltip in > the property inspector): > https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/562/files > > > We'd like to make it as good and useful as possible. If the worst you can > say is you can't see any advantages, then I think the non-obvious ones > above make it well worth it ;-) Otherwise it would be great to hear > constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement. > > Ali and he speaks of the LC 8 Project Browser. Looking at the set up of the IDE including the Project Browser I find the structure of the IDE in LC 8 much clearer and it is easier to grasp what is going on and on top of it using widgets is fantastic. Just turn on "Show IDE Stacks in Lists" and have a look at it in the Project Browser. The whole thing is in a state of flux/unfinished and I think that is why there is soliciting for usability/interface opinions. I don't think the developers are trying to force anything on the users, instead they clean up the convoluted structure of the IDE by modularizing it to a finer degree using Widgets and scriptified stacks. As that is a work in progress and I am confident that everybody will be profiting from it. I consider the LC8 Project browser unfinished. In LC8 changes to the IDE will be a lot easier and reorganisation of e.g. Project Browser too. And once the clean-up of the IDE will settle it will be a lot easier for user contributions. So in my view a lot of shortcomings of the Project Browser (LC7 and LC8) have been clearly shown but that is why this discussion is important. And remember: the engineers are not trying to hurt the feelings of anybody. But the sooner more people try LC8 and report feedback/bugs the sooner LC8 will be a fully usable version of LC plus a lot more. in case anybody is wondering what the engineers are doing https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulse Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/App-Browser-versus-Project-Browser-tp4696976p4697033.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Oct 8 09:47:03 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 06:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <5615D935.3030907@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> <5615D935.3030907@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1444312023370-4697034.post@n4.nabble.com> J. Landman Gay wrote > On 10/7/2015 6:20 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: >> IMO, Jacque makes a number of valid points. In the Project Browser, >> because stacks and cards are contained in the single view, a long list of >> controls will remove any stack and card references from view, while in >> the >> Application Browser, stacks and cards are always visible. It seems like >> applying an Application Browser layout to the Project Browser could make >> it more useful: move stack/card references to a left pane that is always >> visible. >> >> For myself, I also often rely on numerical references: card numbers, >> layer >> numbers, etc. Filtering in the Project Browser is great, but it's not >> the >> same as sorting offered by the Application Browser (AFAICT the Project >> Browser doesn't offer sorting that I can see). > > You can choose to sort layers from top to bottom, or bottom to top in > Preferences, but there's no option to sort by anything other than layers. > > Suppose the project browser had a slide-out left panel that listed the > stacks and cards, like the app browser does now? Maybe it could be a > preference, and if it's turned off, the PB works the way it currently > does. If the panel option is turned on, it would keep its selection but > get out of the way if you need the screen space. People could choose if > they wanted to view by stack/card/object hierarchy with a panel, or just > single-list as it is now. > > I definitely need card numbers and object IDs. I use the project browser exclusively but the main stack in my project has only 3 cards but with lots of objects on the cards many of which are in nested groups so the ability to drill down into nested groups is why I like project browser. So having all the cards in view is not really an issue for me. However, Jacque's post encouraged me to look at AB to see how that would work for me and I can see the benefits she points out. The other feature I like about PB is the filter. Sometimes in a script there is a reference to an object that I need to manipulate using the property inspector or edit the script of as I use lots of dispatches and sends. To find the object and open its script I can quickly enter it in the filter and find it and open the property inspector. In the application browser I don't see a find or filter function. I also use filter if I am trying to go from memory to find an object and typing the partial name of the object allows me to find it. The one thing I dislike about filter feature is that once an object is selected from the filtered list you can't then see the objects that are above it and below it in the hierarchy. If I remove the search term from the filter then the object that I selected from the filtered list is no longer visible in the pane. There should be a way to turn off the filter and then all objects are visible again but the object that you selected from the filtered list stays where it is in the pane so you can then see where it is in the hierarchy and access its children or parent. I like the suggestion about a two pane approach with the Left pane being the AB and right Pane being the PB or the right pane being able to toggle between a PB or AB approach to viewing the hierarchy. In another part of this thread there is a discussion of merging the AB/PB with the script editor. I think that is an interesting idea. One feature I think would be useful would be the ability to right click on the name of an object in the script editor and have a contextual menu come up with a 'go to object' menu item that would hilite the object in the PB/AB just as when right clicking on a handler you get the 'go to definition' menu item. There could also be a 'go to object script' menu item. This would be useful with send or dispatch commands to be able to jump to the script of the object that it was being dispatched to. One question though Jacque says she uses the object IDs in the AB. I don't see a column for object IDs in the AB. Is it a preference to choose which columns are shown? Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/App-Browser-versus-Project-Browser-tp4696976p4697034.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Oct 8 09:53:14 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 06:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <5615650E.6020606@gmail.com> <4DBD5181-B0F0-4DC8-8375-ED74788EC052@livecode.com> <56156AC6.9030002@gmail.com> <561595B4.3060606@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1444312394941-4697035.post@n4.nabble.com> Monte Goulding wrote > > Direct integration between the project browser and the script editor would > be very nice too. Some kind of context mode in the script editor that > would switch the script in the script editor to the selected obhect with > some indication of unsaved or unset scripts on the project browser.. Extra > bonus points if you can include the project browser directly into the > script editor as a pane? Very much like how the inspector will change when > you select an object. It seems reasonable that the script editor could > have such a mode that would update with object selection via project > browser or other means. I like the idea of integrating the PB/AB with the script editor. One feature I think would be useful as part of this integration would be the ability to right click on the name of an object in the script editor and have a contextual menu come up with a 'go to object' menu item that would hilite the object in the PB/AB pane of the script editor just as when right clicking on a handler you get the 'go to definition' menu item. There could also be a 'go to object script' menu item that would open the script of the object in the editor. This would be useful with send or dispatch commands to be able to jump to the script of the object that it was being dispatched to. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/App-Browser-versus-Project-Browser-tp4696976p4697035.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From jana.doughty at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 11:08:28 2015 From: jana.doughty at livecode.com (Jana Doughty) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:08:28 +0200 Subject: A Toast to the Global Jam Message-ID: <1d4a456302955a7b60e68b9f414f47a3.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Hey All, Thanks to everyone who participated in the LiveCode Global Jam and helped to make LC 8 great! You can read about the Global Jam success and all the fixes we made here: https://livecode.com/a-toast-to-the-global-jam/ Thanks! Jana From jana.doughty at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 11:10:06 2015 From: jana.doughty at livecode.com (Jana Doughty) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:10:06 +0200 Subject: A Toast to the Global Jam Message-ID: <67b2cae281d2ca5866380eca52a3de03.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Hey All, Thanks to everyone who participated in the LiveCode Global Jam and helped to make LC 8 great! You can read about the Global Jam success and all the fixes we made here: https://livecode.com/a-toast-to-the-global-jam/ Thanks! Jana From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Oct 8 11:16:55 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:16:55 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> Hi Richmond, I looked at the differences in these inspectors and I came to the conclusion that the new version is not an improvement. What was clear and everyone was used to in the old version with the words has now been replaced with smaller icons in the new version. While I?m sure we will adjust eventually to the new version, more silly icons isn?t what we need. The human brain has to do the translation. I?m sure a text tool tip will magically appear to tell us what the icon means after a short delay, (I hope), but it won?t speed along productivity for anyone. Just my 2 cents. ;-) Rick > On Oct 8, 2015, at 7:31 AM, Richmond wrote: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25526 > From paul at livecode.org Thu Oct 8 11:17:51 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 08:17:51 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <1444312023370-4697034.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> <5615D935.3030907@hyperactivesw.com> <1444312023370-4697034.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: > On 8 Oct 2015, at 06:47, Martin Koob wrote: > > One question though Jacque says she uses the object IDs in the AB. I don't > see a column for object IDs in the AB. Is it a preference to choose which > columns are shown? Right-click on the column headers in the of the AB and you should see a contextual menu for the options available in the headers, you can choose to show/hide each one. Paul From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Oct 8 11:10:39 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 08:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> <5615D935.3030907@hyperactivesw.com> <1444312023370-4697034.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1444317039263-4697039.post@n4.nabble.com> Ah! Ok thanks Paul. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/App-Browser-versus-Project-Browser-tp4696976p4697039.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 8 11:11:30 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 10:11:30 -0500 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <1444312023370-4697034.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> <5615D935.3030907@hyperactivesw.com> <1444312023370-4697034.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Right click on any header in the app browser to toggle visibility of the columns you want to display. On October 8, 2015 8:47:03 AM CDT, Martin Koob wrote: > >One question though Jacque says she uses the object IDs in the AB. I >don't >see a column for object IDs in the AB. Is it a preference to choose >which >columns are shown? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu Oct 8 11:36:43 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:36:43 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Rick Harrison wrote: > > I looked at the differences in these inspectors > and I came to the conclusion that the new > version is not an improvement. What was > clear and everyone was used to in the old > version with the words has now been replaced > with smaller icons in the new version. > > While I?m sure we will adjust eventually to > the new version, more silly icons isn?t what > we need. The human brain has to do the > translation. I?m sure a text tool tip will magically > appear to tell us what the icon means after > a short delay, (I hope), but it won?t speed > along productivity for anyone. > Rick, I've actually found the new interface to be much more productive. I always found that using an option menu to switch property inspector panes was tedious as it required multiple clicks. Switching around between panes in the inspector is much quicker now. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 8 11:38:29 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 15:38:29 +0000 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <56157955.3080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3E98CE2D-3232-45CF-B688-4035894F2B28@iotecdigital.com> +50 That about "sums it up" Jacque. ;-) Bob S > On Oct 7, 2015, at 12:58 , J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 10/7/2015 1:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> Far more useful would be constructive criticism of both the Project >> Browser and the Application Browser. It does seem a little 'silly' to >> maintain two things which serve essentially the same purpose - so Ali's >> idea is perhaps the best way forward - what is it that is good and bad >> about both and is it possible to design something which everybody would >> be happy with? > > The issues would probably become clear if you open, say, 10 large stacks, each with 50 cards or more, containing dozens of controls per card. Since my primary project for the last 2 years uses that setup, I haven't been able to use the Project Browser because it isn't practical. > > 1. The hierarchical organization of the App Browser (AB) is indispensable and is the main reason I stay with it. I can see at a glance how to drill down to the single object I am looking for and how objects are organized on each card by group and layer order. It is by far the fastest way to understand how a set of stacks is internally structured. The long, scrolling list in the Project Browser (PB) can't display the structure as clearly because it is all linear. Multiple cards with many objects will run off the top and bottom of the PB window and you can't see the overall organization. > > 2. It is difficult in the PB to quickly find a specific object. If you want to know the name of an object on some other card, you have to collapse the current card, scroll through 50 cards to find the one you're looking for (and if you didn't collapse those already, the scrolling is interminable,) expand it, scroll through the objects to find the one you want (note the name because it's going to be a long trip to find it again,) collapse that card, scroll (forever) again to find the card you started with, expand it, find the original object again, and continue. In AB, I can just look at the left-hand pane and see the name of the target card, click it, note the name of the object, then click back where I was. If the AB is sized tall enough to hold 50 lines of text, I don't have to do much scrolling at all. If I do need to scroll, it's minimal because at least 25-30 cards are always visible at once. > > 2. In the AB I can click on any header to view the organization in many ways, and I have a choice of which columns I want to display. If I want to work only with images, or fields, I can bunch them together in the list by type and they are quickly accessible while still allowing me to see the other objects on the card. I frequently require info on layering order, one click and I have that. I use the ID column extensively. In PB I have to type in a filter string to isolate by object type, and then I can no longer see any other objects, so if I need some other info I have to remove the filter, find what I want, then reinstate the original filter. PB does not offer a way to identify an object ID at all, as far as I can see, and I need that all the time. (But you could turn off those distracting ID tooltips for sure.) > > 3. Visually, the PB is too cluttered to be quickly scanned. The checkmarks in the AB are more useful. In the AB is very easy to see, for example, which objects are invisible by simply looking for "gaps" in the checkmark column. In the PB I have to examine each object individually because the visual difference between the enabled and disabled "eye" image is not distinct enough, and even if it were, there's that scrolling issue again to see all the objects. Also, there is no single column to scan -- the lock icon is interspersed so you have to mentally learn to skip over every other icon. > > 4. I have turned off thumbnails in the PB because with hundreds of objects or more, the time required for it to constantly update is (or at least, was) unacceptable. Even without thumbnails, it performs much slower than the AB. There is also the issue of visual clutter (see below) which is main reason I turned off thumbnails on day one. Thumbnails also double the amount of scrolling you have to do to find things. > > 5. In the PB there is no clear delineation between cards and substacks. Both are left-aligned at the same visual depth. In the AB, all stacks are in the left pane, with substacks indented under their mainstack. Also, in the PB, the stack you are inspecting scrolls off the top of the window, so you are never sure which stack owns the cards that are currently displayed. This is a big issue in my project, because all the stacks are clones of each other and cards have the same names (usually just IDs.) In the AB I can immediately see which stack owns the card because the card is highlighted in the left-pane list under its easily-viewable owner. Even if I have to scroll to see the stack name, the card I'm working with remains selected and its objects remain visible. > > 6. The icons at the bottom of the PB are so tiny on my screen that they are difficult to recognize (and my eyesight isn't great anyway.) I have to use the tooltips. That takes too long, so I just open the property inspector or use the menu items instead. I suppose with some use I'd memorize what each icon does, but the other issues have prevented me from becoming familiar enough with it. > > That's just what I remember from the few days I tried to work with it. I'm not convinced that the current design can accomodate my work style unless it can at least be revised to show a columnar view rather than a linear one. What I would have preferred is an update for the few glitches in the AB (mainly it doesn't always refresh automatically, and those blinking tooltips are positively aggressive) and give it a new coat of paint if you think it looks too dated. Its plain text layout with clear checkmarks is much easier for me to work with. I do like how you can change layering order by dragging in the PB, that would be a nice addition to the AB. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 11:54:01 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:54:01 -0400 Subject: A Toast to the Global Jam In-Reply-To: <67b2cae281d2ca5866380eca52a3de03.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> References: <67b2cae281d2ca5866380eca52a3de03.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <5FC55B53-C5F0-45E5-814B-0E3C341D6C23@gmail.com> >"The global jam is over! First things first: apologies for the toast/jam pun, I probably shouldn?t have skipped breakfast.? Look, honey, my mama lade out rules about not doing breakfast puns. Clearly you were spread thin that day. At least it wasn?t cheese on toast. You should think of having a Jam day each week. It can be just within the Edinburgh office hours, but you would be doing the Slack chat, and people would be trying out new builds. I just somehow think that it must have been fun for you, that you had to focus even more than usual, and we felt like participants. From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 11:58:45 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 08:58:45 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <5615E22C.7050206@ahsoftware.net> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> <5615E22C.7050206@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/07/2015 11:54 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> So if we had deleted the app browser stack from the build, would your >> point of view have changed and would you have started to use the project >> browser? ;) >> > > Wow. I step away for a day and look what happens. > Interesting question. > > I'd probably stay with previous builds and cut my ties with a company > that's out of touch with its user base. > I, too, would probably go searching again. The whole IDE is degrading fast enough without taking pieces that do sort-of work and forcing new things on us . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 12:03:39 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:03:39 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> <56156C34.9000204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > i.e. There is was a strong hint that continued usage of the Application > Browser was related to its presence, rather than fondness. > > Essentially I was trying to determine whether it was familiarity or like > which was the issue here. > The project browser displays far less in the same vertical space, even without considering the left pane. On top of that, it is more effort, scrolling, and clicks to display. Kind of like why I'm so disappointed with my new Tivo . . . (I counted the other night, and it was about six taps of navigation for a season pass, or whatever they call it, compared to two on the same button. And large types of searches [e.g., "season premier" ]no longer work --quite similar to what we're complaining about here) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 12:05:55 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:05:55 +0200 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> <5615E22C.7050206@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <33b4614a16c479f85efc88079ecd198b@livecode.com> On 2015-10-08 17:58, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> Wow. I step away for a day and look what happens. >> Interesting question. >> >> I'd probably stay with previous builds and cut my ties with a company >> that's out of touch with its user base. >> > > I, too, would probably go searching again. > > The whole IDE is degrading fast enough without taking pieces that do > sort-of work and forcing new things on us . . . As I said in another post (in reply to the original reply), this wasn't the intent of my post - so apologies for any mis-inference that has been took. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 12:21:09 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 16:21:09 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: One thing we can easily do is have a preference which allows you to switch to the section names instead of icons. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 4:36 PM Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Rick Harrison > wrote: > > > > > I looked at the differences in these inspectors > > and I came to the conclusion that the new > > version is not an improvement. What was > > clear and everyone was used to in the old > > version with the words has now been replaced > > with smaller icons in the new version. > > > > While I?m sure we will adjust eventually to > > the new version, more silly icons isn?t what > > we need. The human brain has to do the > > translation. I?m sure a text tool tip will magically > > appear to tell us what the icon means after > > a short delay, (I hope), but it won?t speed > > along productivity for anyone. > > > > Rick, > > I've actually found the new interface to be much more productive. I always > found that using an option menu to switch property inspector panes was > tedious as it required multiple clicks. Switching around between panes in > the inspector is much quicker now. > > -- > Trevor DeVore > ScreenSteps > www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 13:13:13 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 17:13:13 +0000 Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 7 Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 7. Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your stacks before testing them. *Release contents* This release contains all the fixes and improvements made during the global jam, including 29 bug fixes, and performance improvements with number to string conversion, string concatenation, the get command and single byte fetching. You can find the list of bug fixes in the menu Help > Release Notes, or from the download page referenced below. *Getting the release* You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ LiveCode 8 is still in development so we?d love to hear any feedback you have on it. There are a number of features that we?d like to implement but aren?t ready yet and the existing features are subject to change during development - we can?t guarantee that extensions written in DP1 will continue to work in later versions. Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 The LiveCode Team From paul at livecode.org Thu Oct 8 13:18:54 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:18:54 -0700 Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 8 Oct 2015, at 10:13, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > *Getting the release* > You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ Ali, The downloads page doesn?t appear to be updated with DP7 yet, is it still uploading? Paul From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 8 13:25:15 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 13:25:15 -0400 Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: not there, yet. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > Dear list members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 7. > > Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your > stacks before testing them. > > *Release contents* > > This release contains all the fixes and improvements made during the global > jam, including > 29 bug fixes, and performance improvements with number to string > conversion, > string concatenation, the get command and single byte fetching. > > You can find the list of bug fixes in the menu Help > Release Notes, or > from the download page referenced below. > > *Getting the release* > You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ > > LiveCode 8 is still in development so we?d love to hear any > feedback you have on it. There are a number of features that we?d like to > implement but aren?t ready yet and the existing features are subject to > change during development - we can?t guarantee that extensions written in > DP1 will continue to work in later versions. > > Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 > > > The LiveCode Team > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Oct 8 13:16:12 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1444324572089-4697051.post@n4.nabble.com> The modifying the link for DP6 to DP7 works for Mac Indy at least. http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeIndyInstaller-8_0_0_dp_6-Mac.dmg http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeIndyInstaller-8_0_0_dp_7-Mac.dmg Likely it is just the web page has not been updated yet. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-LiveCode-8-0-DP-7-tp4697049p4697051.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 8 13:26:11 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 13:26:11 -0400 Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, it's not listed on the page, but if you take one of the links on the page and tweak it, you can get it to download. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > > On 8 Oct 2015, at 10:13, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > > *Getting the release* > > You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ < > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/> > > Ali, > > The downloads page doesn?t appear to be updated with DP7 yet, is it still > uploading? > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 13:35:38 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 17:35:38 +0000 Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry about that, should be ok now! On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 at 18:18, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > > On 8 Oct 2015, at 10:13, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > > *Getting the release* > > You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ < > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/> > > Ali, > > The downloads page doesn?t appear to be updated with DP7 yet, is it still > uploading? > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 13:37:59 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 20:37:59 +0300 Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 7 In-Reply-To: <1444324572089-4697051.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444324572089-4697051.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <5616A9F7.1090000@gmail.com> On 08/10/15 20:16, Martin Koob wrote: > The modifying the link for DP6 to DP7 works for Mac Indy at least. > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeIndyInstaller-8_0_0_dp_6-Mac.dmg > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeIndyInstaller-8_0_0_dp_7-Mac.dmg > > Likely it is just the web page has not been updated yet. > > Martin > > Hey, as we are all used to having to rely on WORK-AROUNDS a lot of the time with LiveCode that should not be a major problem. Those who don't recognise a barbed comment when they see it . . . Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 13:39:47 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 20:39:47 +0300 Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5616AA63.6090708@gmail.com> On 08/10/15 20:35, Ali Lloyd wrote: > Sorry about that, should be ok now! Ha, Ha, Ha: flipping typical: exactly 10 second after I initiated a download using a work-around. Hey, you have to love the RunRev team, one way or another: as Parmenides said "it's in a state of becoming." Richmond. > On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 at 18:18, Paul Hibbert wrote: > >>> On 8 Oct 2015, at 10:13, Ali Lloyd wrote: >>> >>> *Getting the release* >>> You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ < >> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/> >> >> Ali, >> >> The downloads page doesn?t appear to be updated with DP7 yet, is it still >> uploading? >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 8 13:50:13 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:50:13 -0500 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <5616ACD5.3000309@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/8/2015 10:36 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Rick Harrison > wrote: > >> >> I looked at the differences in these inspectors >> and I came to the conclusion that the new >> version is not an improvement. What was >> clear and everyone was used to in the old >> version with the words has now been replaced >> with smaller icons in the new version. >> >> While I?m sure we will adjust eventually to >> the new version, more silly icons isn?t what >> we need. The human brain has to do the >> translation. I?m sure a text tool tip will magically >> appear to tell us what the icon means after >> a short delay, (I hope), but it won?t speed >> along productivity for anyone. >> > > Rick, > > I've actually found the new interface to be much more productive. I always > found that using an option menu to switch property inspector panes was > tedious as it required multiple clicks. Switching around between panes in > the inspector is much quicker now. > I have to mostly agree with Trevor here. The very first property inspector had tabs for navigating panes and it was much faster and easier to use. But as new panes were added there was no longer enough horizontal space so tabs were replaced by the option menu. This has always been awkward to use and there were some complaints about it at first. Icons allow us to return to the original quick navigation we used to have, so I'm in favor of them -- provisionally. But as Rick said, it's not always easy to identify icons. Tooltips are a must until we learn what they are. But even better would be icons with labels, like the IDE toolbar has. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 8 13:51:22 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:51:22 -0500 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <5616AD1A.3090902@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/8/2015 11:21 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > One thing we can easily do is have a preference which allows you to switch > to the section names instead of icons. I'd be all for that, if labelled icons aren't possible. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From irog at mac.com Thu Oct 8 13:56:23 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 10:56:23 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5616ACD5.3000309@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> <5616ACD5.3000309@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 8, 2015, at 10:50 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > But as Rick said, it's not always easy to identify icons. Tooltips are a must until we learn what they are. But even better would be icons with labels, like the IDE toolbar has. Sometimes, a word is worth a thousand pictures! Roger From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 14:36:41 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:36:41 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> <5616ACD5.3000309@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Labelled icons are also possible - we could potentially have a preference setting for one, the other, or both. They do already have tooltips, btw. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 6:56 PM Roger Guay wrote: > > > On Oct 8, 2015, at 10:50 AM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > > > > But as Rick said, it's not always easy to identify icons. Tooltips are a > must until we learn what they are. But even better would be icons with > labels, like the IDE toolbar has. > > > Sometimes, a word is worth a thousand pictures! > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 8 14:55:18 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:55:18 -0400 Subject: Forking Versions Message-ID: 1) In Git, if I have a fork, but then there are updates to the master branch, and I want to take those and replace at least some of the contents in my fork, do I have to create a new fork and download the entire project, again? That seems like it would screw up the things I've been working on in my fork, and mean that I would have to manually re-integrated the things I'm doing in the files I'm working on. 2) I've been messing around with various widgets, but I'm not messing with the engine, but there does not seem to be a way to fork part of the project without forking all of it. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 8 14:59:43 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:59:43 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5616BD1F.7020508@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > Labelled icons are also possible - we could potentially have a > preference setting for one, the other, or both. Inspectors are very useful in consumer apps, where the range of properties is often smaller and their scope less broad. In development tools we often see a Property Sheet that shows all properties, as opposed to the subset we've had available in all Inspectors thus far. Here's an implementation I've been using whenever I need things not found in any Inspector: The design is largely functional, but suboptimal. Time permitting it would group related properties together under collapsible headers. And when you think about, even if the Inspector were to continue to limit itself to a subset of object properties, once you start down the road of horizontal labels the design screams for such an accordion design anyway. Using that according design within a scrollable Property Sheet allows for most of what folks are looking for here: - Ease of access - Clear labels for related properties ...and adds something that I don't recall coming up here yet but would sooner or later: - Completeness, the ability to see all of an object's properties The latter is not only very valuable for pros who know about properties not commonly used enough to have merited inclusion in an Inspector, but also for newcomers who can learn about the scope of properties in an object in one place. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 15:09:41 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:09:41 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> <5616ACD5.3000309@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Roger Guay wrote: > Sometimes, a word is worth a thousand pictures! > I have the text toolbar set, and don't waste screen space on icons. OK, so I spend more time in a terminal than the finder; I'm more a unix guy who's hooked on spotlight and Apple's laptops than a mac guy. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 8 15:55:37 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:55:37 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5616BD1F.7020508@fourthworld.com> References: <5616BD1F.7020508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Completeness is indeed important, especially to newcomers as you point out. There are some strange omissions from the pre-8 PI, e.g. it doesn't have a place to specify a behavior for an option menu which, when I first started using LC, led me to believe option menus couldn't have behaviors for some reason. I see that's been corrected in v8. However, once you're past the newcomer stage, showing every possible property is probably something you don't want, which brings me to the issue of layout flexibility, the ability to organize properties together in a way that makes sense for each individual user. I want the properties I use the most to show on a single tab, visible when I open the PI for an object, with other properties grouped together in other tabs that fit the way I work, even excluding some which I never use. In some cases, properties seem like they are in the wrong place to me. For example, the textHeight and firstIndent properties belong in the Text formatting tab, not the basic tab, particularly textHeight which is automatically changed when you change the font size. I'm not sure the team should be devoting time to things like that right now or maybe ever, so I included the ability to do all of the above in lcStackBrowser Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > Labelled icons are also possible - we could potentially have a > > preference setting for one, the other, or both. > > Inspectors are very useful in consumer apps, where the range of properties > is often smaller and their scope less broad. > > In development tools we often see a Property Sheet that shows all > properties, as opposed to the subset we've had available in all Inspectors > thus far. > > Here's an implementation I've been using whenever I need things not found > in any Inspector: > > > The design is largely functional, but suboptimal. Time permitting it > would group related properties together under collapsible headers. > > And when you think about, even if the Inspector were to continue to limit > itself to a subset of object properties, once you start down the road of > horizontal labels the design screams for such an accordion design anyway. > > Using that according design within a scrollable Property Sheet allows for > most of what folks are looking for here: > > - Ease of access > - Clear labels for related properties > > ...and adds something that I don't recall coming up here yet but would > sooner or later: > > - Completeness, the ability to see all of an object's properties > > The latter is not only very valuable for pros who know about properties > not commonly used enough to have merited inclusion in an Inspector, but > also for newcomers who can learn about the scope of properties in an object > in one place. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 8 16:14:17 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:14:17 +1100 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8078CAC8-A77C-49EC-9C50-E65F3780A16D@sweattechnologies.com> While it is possible to commit your changes on master then merge their stuff in its a real headache to do things that way. What you want to do is create a branch to work on. Commit your changes there then when you want their stuff you checkout the branch you want to update. In the case of the LiveCode repo it is most likely develop. Then pull changes. Then checkout your branch and merge in develop. Now your branch is being kept updated with their stuff but isn't in the way when you want to get their stuff. Any merge conflicts are sorted out on your private branch. Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 9 Oct 2015, at 5:55 am, Mike Kerner wrote: > > 1) In Git, if I have a fork, but then there are updates to the master > branch, and I want to take those and replace at least some of the contents > in my fork, do I have to create a new fork and download the entire project, > again? That seems like it would screw up the things I've been working on > in my fork, and mean that I would have to manually re-integrated the things > I'm doing in the files I'm working on. > > 2) I've been messing around with various widgets, but I'm not messing with > the engine, but there does not seem to be a way to fork part of the project > without forking all of it. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 8 17:10:46 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:10:46 -0700 Subject: Python comparisons? Message-ID: <5616DBD6.5080204@fourthworld.com> I'm interested in doing some benchmarks comparing LiveCode performance with Python's, but my Python skills are as weak as my C skills at this point. Rather than wait until I'm expert in Python, it would be helpful if one of the members here who's proficient with it might be interested in collaborating on some benchmarks together. If so drop me a note. Thanks. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 8 17:20:34 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:20:34 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Here's an implementation I've been using whenever I need things >> not found in any Inspector: >> >> >> The design is largely functional, but suboptimal. Time permitting it >> would group related properties together under collapsible headers. > > Completeness is indeed important, especially to newcomers as you > point out. > There are some strange omissions from the pre-8 PI, e.g. it doesn't > have a place to specify a behavior for an option menu which, when I > first started using LC, led me to believe option menus couldn't have > behaviors for some reason. I see that's been corrected in v8. > > However, once you're past the newcomer stage, showing every possible > property is probably something you don't want, which brings me to > the issue of layout flexibility, the ability to organize properties > together in a way that makes sense for each individual user. The collapsible headers I referred to is the enhancement a good Property Sheet should have to allow users to find properties easily. Logical groupings allow you to work with just color props, or size/location props, etc. as needed, and likely only crazy people like me would expand all of them at once in an alphabetic list like the one I'd built to see them all at once. Ken Ray and I discussed having one of the theoretical collapsible headers being Favorites, so anyone who finds themselves using a certain subset of props frequently can include them there while still keeping the logical groupings it would ship with by default. The real value of the Prop Sheet implementation I shared isn't that it's complete in that way, but merely that all of its prop labels and values use only one field to display them. Super easy to build and maintain, and efficient to work with. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 8 17:42:41 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:42:41 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Favorites would be a great addition. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Here's an implementation I've been using whenever I need things > >> not found in any Inspector: > >> > >> > >> The design is largely functional, but suboptimal. Time permitting it > >> would group related properties together under collapsible headers. > > > > Completeness is indeed important, especially to newcomers as you > > point out. > > There are some strange omissions from the pre-8 PI, e.g. it doesn't > > have a place to specify a behavior for an option menu which, when I > > first started using LC, led me to believe option menus couldn't have > > behaviors for some reason. I see that's been corrected in v8. > > > > However, once you're past the newcomer stage, showing every possible > > property is probably something you don't want, which brings me to > > the issue of layout flexibility, the ability to organize properties > > together in a way that makes sense for each individual user. > > The collapsible headers I referred to is the enhancement a good Property > Sheet should have to allow users to find properties easily. > > Logical groupings allow you to work with just color props, or > size/location props, etc. as needed, and likely only crazy people like me > would expand all of them at once in an alphabetic list like the one I'd > built to see them all at once. > > Ken Ray and I discussed having one of the theoretical collapsible headers > being Favorites, so anyone who finds themselves using a certain subset of > props frequently can include them there while still keeping the logical > groupings it would ship with by default. > > The real value of the Prop Sheet implementation I shared isn't that it's > complete in that way, but merely that all of its prop labels and values use > only one field to display them. Super easy to build and maintain, and > efficient to work with. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From userev at canelasoftware.com Thu Oct 8 17:47:19 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:47:19 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <56165407.2040502@gmail.com> <9C268832-78AE-4CA4-BFE3-FE3FD3A38C74@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 8, 2015, at 8:36 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > > I've actually found the new interface to be much more productive. I always > found that using an option menu to switch property inspector panes was > tedious as it required multiple clicks. Switching around between panes in > the inspector is much quicker now. I agree that the new interface with panes is a lot faster for me too. I like that the grow/shrink animation found in earlier versions of LC has been replaced with a super fast no transition model. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for LiveCode developers: livecloud.io From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Oct 8 17:47:28 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 21:47:28 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: OK, the palette header actually doesn't currently have the option to display both icons and labels, so I might rectify that tomorrow. For now, here's a pull request adding the display preference between icons and labels. https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/564 The way we have written the property inspector, it will be very easy to specify where you want particular properties to appear. We intended to add grouping/folding/customization of this type straight away, but I guess it's probably better to get the basics working first. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:20 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Here's an implementation I've been using whenever I need things > >> not found in any Inspector: > >> > >> > >> The design is largely functional, but suboptimal. Time permitting it > >> would group related properties together under collapsible headers. > > > > Completeness is indeed important, especially to newcomers as you > > point out. > > There are some strange omissions from the pre-8 PI, e.g. it doesn't > > have a place to specify a behavior for an option menu which, when I > > first started using LC, led me to believe option menus couldn't have > > behaviors for some reason. I see that's been corrected in v8. > > > > However, once you're past the newcomer stage, showing every possible > > property is probably something you don't want, which brings me to > > the issue of layout flexibility, the ability to organize properties > > together in a way that makes sense for each individual user. > > The collapsible headers I referred to is the enhancement a good Property > Sheet should have to allow users to find properties easily. > > Logical groupings allow you to work with just color props, or > size/location props, etc. as needed, and likely only crazy people like > me would expand all of them at once in an alphabetic list like the one > I'd built to see them all at once. > > Ken Ray and I discussed having one of the theoretical collapsible > headers being Favorites, so anyone who finds themselves using a certain > subset of props frequently can include them there while still keeping > the logical groupings it would ship with by default. > > The real value of the Prop Sheet implementation I shared isn't that it's > complete in that way, but merely that all of its prop labels and values > use only one field to display them. Super easy to build and maintain, > and efficient to work with. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 8 17:55:28 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:55:28 +1100 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22180CE9-010C-4824-A668-4823C6305585@sweattechnologies.com> Oh, you also need to add the official repo as a remote on your fork: git remote add upstream https://github.com/livecode/livecode.git This adds the official repo as a remote named upstream which is the normal name of the original repo when you have a fork. Your fork is called origin. What you want to do is pull the changes from upstream (the company repo), make commits and push them to origin (your fork). If you have anything to contribute you can then send a pull request which is basically a request for them to merge in the changes on a branch on your fork into the official repo. Now that you have added upstream as a remote you want to set the upstream of each of the official branches that you have checked out. Say you have checked out develop (livecode 8) then you want to do this: git branch --set-upstream develop upstream/develop This means that when you checkout develop and pull it will automatically pull from the upstream remote (the company repo) rather than your origin remote (your fork). Anyway I hope that helps ;-) > On 9 Oct 2015, at 5:55 am, Mike Kerner wrote: > > 1) In Git, if I have a fork, but then there are updates to the master > branch, and I want to take those and replace at least some of the contents > in my fork, do I have to create a new fork and download the entire project, > again? That seems like it would screw up the things I've been working on > in my fork, and mean that I would have to manually re-integrated the things > I'm doing in the files I'm working on. > > 2) I've been messing around with various widgets, but I'm not messing with > the engine, but there does not seem to be a way to fork part of the project > without forking all of it. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Oct 8 18:18:33 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 00:18:33 +0200 Subject: LiveCode Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5616EBB9.4090700@economy-x-talk.com> Hallo, Alle informatie over de bijeenkomst kun je nu ook vinden via deze link http://www3.economy-x-talk.com/blog/ Je kunt hier een filmpje over de HyperDuino, een filmpje over het hotel en een plattegrond bekijken. All information about the meeting can also be found at http://www3.economy-x-talk.com/blog/ You can watch a film about the HyperDuino, a film about the hotel and a map. Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/8/2015 om 12:27 schreef Mark Schonewille: > Beste mensen, > > Vergeet niet dat we morgen bijeenkomen in Breda! Bij deze nog een keer alle informatie. We hebben intussen ook een volle agenda. Ik zal proberen die vanavond nog even door te sturen. > > Don't forget the meeting in Breda tomorrow! Here is all the info one more time. We also have a full agenda now. I'll try to forward the agenda tonight. > > Mark > From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 8 18:49:53 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:49:53 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Instead of a scrolling accordion list with grouped sets of properties, allow me to get radical and suggest a fixed index list on the left or along the top of the palette. You'd get one-click access to any category, and no need to expand/collapse panes. With an accordion control, you'll likely suffer the same issues found in the current Project Browser: to much vertical scrolling required to get to what you want, and no constant reference for all property categories since they can be scrolled out of view. I may be voicing dissent here, but as you say "Let 1000 flowers bloom." :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/8/15, 2:20 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin" wrote: >Peter Haworth wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Here's an implementation I've been using whenever I need things > >> not found in any Inspector: > >> > >> > >> The design is largely functional, but suboptimal. Time permitting it > >> would group related properties together under collapsible headers. > > > > Completeness is indeed important, especially to newcomers as you > > point out. > > There are some strange omissions from the pre-8 PI, e.g. it doesn't > > have a place to specify a behavior for an option menu which, when I > > first started using LC, led me to believe option menus couldn't have > > behaviors for some reason. I see that's been corrected in v8. > > > > However, once you're past the newcomer stage, showing every possible > > property is probably something you don't want, which brings me to > > the issue of layout flexibility, the ability to organize properties > > together in a way that makes sense for each individual user. > >The collapsible headers I referred to is the enhancement a good Property >Sheet should have to allow users to find properties easily. > >Logical groupings allow you to work with just color props, or >size/location props, etc. as needed, and likely only crazy people like >me would expand all of them at once in an alphabetic list like the one >I'd built to see them all at once. > >Ken Ray and I discussed having one of the theoretical collapsible >headers being Favorites, so anyone who finds themselves using a certain >subset of props frequently can include them there while still keeping >the logical groupings it would ship with by default. > >The real value of the Prop Sheet implementation I shared isn't that it's >complete in that way, but merely that all of its prop labels and values >use only one field to display them. Super easy to build and maintain, >and efficient to work with. > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 8 19:33:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 16:33:16 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5616FD3C.4040705@fourthworld.com> Scott Rossi wrote: > Instead of a scrolling accordion list with grouped sets of properties, > allow me to get radical and suggest a fixed index list on the left or > along the top of the palette. You'd get one-click access to any category, > and no need to expand/collapse panes. With an accordion control, you'll > likely suffer the same issues found in the current Project Browser: to > much vertical scrolling required to get to what you want, and no constant > reference for all property categories since they can be scrolled out of > view. > > I may be voicing dissent here, but as you say "Let 1000 flowers bloom." :-) At the risk of sounding boring, I think we're talking about the same thing. If we took the existing Inspector and replaced the icons at the top with horizontal labels we'd have something like (where "*this*" indicated hilited item): ---------------- | Colors | ---------------- |*Size* | ---------------- | Behavior | ---------------- | Other | ---------------- | Favorites | ---------------- | List of | | name-value | | properties | | for item | | hilited | | above | | goes | | here | ---------------- An accordion style would keep all the labels visible, simply putting the scrolling list field of name-value property pairs immediately below the selection, taking the same amount of room but just making the header more readily associated with the list it delivers: ---------------- | Colors | ---------------- |*Size* | ---------------- | List of | | name-value | | properties | | for item | | hilited | | above | | goes | | here | ---------------- | Behavior | ---------------- | Other | ---------------- | Favorites | ---------------- -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at livecode.org Thu Oct 8 19:35:43 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 16:35:43 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6D60A2C9-85B8-4123-AF1B-9CB2A8A63F51@livecode.org> On 8 Oct 2015, at 14:47, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > OK, the palette header actually doesn't currently have the option to > display both icons and labels, so I might rectify that tomorrow. Ali, If you are delving into the PI prefs tomorrow you may want to look at the bug report I?ve just submitted, http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16176 (Property Inspector not respecting Preference setting). Hopefully this should be an one to easy fix. Regards, Paul From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 8 19:43:12 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 16:43:12 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <6D60A2C9-85B8-4123-AF1B-9CB2A8A63F51@livecode.org> References: <6D60A2C9-85B8-4123-AF1B-9CB2A8A63F51@livecode.org> Message-ID: <5616FF90.2060301@fourthworld.com> Paul Hibbert wrote: > If you are delving into the PI prefs tomorrow you may want to look > at the bug report I?ve just submitted > (Property Inspector > not respecting Preference setting). That raises another question: If LiveCode is "English-like" then shouldn't using the language token be sufficient? Why have an option for some more descriptive text? If the language isn't readable fix the language, but it slows down learning to have words used in the Inspector which bear no resemblance to the token a scripter would later use in their code. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 8 20:12:49 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 17:12:49 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5616FD3C.4040705@fourthworld.com> References: <5616FD3C.4040705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Your ascii-drawing-fu is quite skilled :-) No boredom at all. I see the difference you mention in limiting the height of the property list. I had understood the selected pane would be expanded to display ALL properties for the category, which could potentially scroll Behavior/Other/Favorites out of view. I had to take stab at the option I suggested: --------------------------------------- | Colors | List of | ---------------- name-value | |**Size** | properties | ---------------- for item | | Behavior | hilited | ---------------- at left | | Other | goes here | ---------------- and maybe | | Favorites | offers | ---------------- more | | vertical space | | for the list | -------------------------------------- :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/8/15, 4:33 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin" wrote: >Scott Rossi wrote: >> Instead of a scrolling accordion list with grouped sets of properties, >> allow me to get radical and suggest a fixed index list on the left or >> along the top of the palette. You'd get one-click access to any >>category, >> and no need to expand/collapse panes. With an accordion control, you'll >> likely suffer the same issues found in the current Project Browser: to >> much vertical scrolling required to get to what you want, and no >>constant >> reference for all property categories since they can be scrolled out of >> view. >> >> I may be voicing dissent here, but as you say "Let 1000 flowers bloom." >>:-) > >At the risk of sounding boring, I think we're talking about the same >thing. > >If we took the existing Inspector and replaced the icons at the top with >horizontal labels we'd have something like (where "*this*" indicated >hilited item): > >---------------- >| Colors | >---------------- >|*Size* | >---------------- >| Behavior | >---------------- >| Other | >---------------- >| Favorites | >---------------- >| List of | >| name-value | >| properties | >| for item | >| hilited | >| above | >| goes | >| here | >---------------- > > >An accordion style would keep all the labels visible, simply putting the >scrolling list field of name-value property pairs immediately below the >selection, taking the same amount of room but just making the header >more readily associated with the list it delivers: > >---------------- >| Colors | >---------------- >|*Size* | >---------------- >| List of | >| name-value | >| properties | >| for item | >| hilited | >| above | >| goes | >| here | >---------------- >| Behavior | >---------------- >| Other | >---------------- >| Favorites | >---------------- > > > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 8 21:07:39 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:07:39 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Ali, Would be great if you get flexible groupings going. Having been through implementing this, one thing to watch out for is that there isn't a way to get a complete list of properties for a particular object type. The properties array of an object does not include properties which can be derived from other properties. That change was made a few releases back and no method of invoking the prior behavior (perhaps "the effective properties") was provided. Also, the propertynames list is missing some entries and includes some entries that seem more like keywords than properties, e.g. "abbrev". Hopefully, as a team member you may have access to other resources to get a complete list, Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > OK, the palette header actually doesn't currently have the option to > display both icons and labels, so I might rectify that tomorrow. > > For now, here's a pull request adding the display preference between icons > and labels. > https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/564 > > The way we have written the property inspector, it will be very easy to > specify where you want particular properties to appear. We intended to add > grouping/folding/customization of this type straight away, but I guess it's > probably better to get the basics working first. > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:20 PM Richard Gaskin > > wrote: > > > Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > >> Here's an implementation I've been using whenever I need things > > >> not found in any Inspector: > > >> > > >> > > >> The design is largely functional, but suboptimal. Time permitting it > > >> would group related properties together under collapsible headers. > > > > > > Completeness is indeed important, especially to newcomers as you > > > point out. > > > There are some strange omissions from the pre-8 PI, e.g. it doesn't > > > have a place to specify a behavior for an option menu which, when I > > > first started using LC, led me to believe option menus couldn't have > > > behaviors for some reason. I see that's been corrected in v8. > > > > > > However, once you're past the newcomer stage, showing every possible > > > property is probably something you don't want, which brings me to > > > the issue of layout flexibility, the ability to organize properties > > > together in a way that makes sense for each individual user. > > > > The collapsible headers I referred to is the enhancement a good Property > > Sheet should have to allow users to find properties easily. > > > > Logical groupings allow you to work with just color props, or > > size/location props, etc. as needed, and likely only crazy people like > > me would expand all of them at once in an alphabetic list like the one > > I'd built to see them all at once. > > > > Ken Ray and I discussed having one of the theoretical collapsible > > headers being Favorites, so anyone who finds themselves using a certain > > subset of props frequently can include them there while still keeping > > the logical groupings it would ship with by default. > > > > The real value of the Prop Sheet implementation I shared isn't that it's > > complete in that way, but merely that all of its prop labels and values > > use only one field to display them. Super easy to build and maintain, > > and efficient to work with. > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 8 21:25:07 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:25:07 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616FD3C.4040705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: The accordion list and Scott's suggestion (is that a "MIller list"?) both have the drawback that you can only see one set of properties at a time. That might be OK but it does mean more clicking around/remembering values if you want to do that. To get round that, my implementation was a simple expandable list of groups. Expand a group to see its properties, collapse it to get rid of them. If you need to see more than one group, expand both of them. Or perhaps you could have a checkbox next to each group instead of buttons that indicates whether or not its properties should be included in the list. You pretty much have to have something like that to handle custom properties since there can be multiple custom property groups unless you have a button for each one or go with a completely different display/editing method. Also, just a detail, but the Favorites group should be at the top of the list and an option to show it already selected/expanded would be good. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Your ascii-drawing-fu is quite skilled :-) > > No boredom at all. I see the difference you mention in limiting the > height of the property list. I had understood the selected pane would be > expanded to display ALL properties for the category, which could > potentially scroll Behavior/Other/Favorites out of view. > > I had to take stab at the option I suggested: > > --------------------------------------- > | Colors | List of | > ---------------- name-value | > |**Size** | properties | > ---------------- for item | > | Behavior | hilited | > ---------------- at left | > | Other | goes here | > ---------------- and maybe | > | Favorites | offers | > ---------------- more | > | vertical space | > | for the list | > -------------------------------------- > > > :-) > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 10/8/15, 4:33 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin" > ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote: > > >Scott Rossi wrote: > >> Instead of a scrolling accordion list with grouped sets of properties, > >> allow me to get radical and suggest a fixed index list on the left or > >> along the top of the palette. You'd get one-click access to any > >>category, > >> and no need to expand/collapse panes. With an accordion control, you'll > >> likely suffer the same issues found in the current Project Browser: to > >> much vertical scrolling required to get to what you want, and no > >>constant > >> reference for all property categories since they can be scrolled out of > >> view. > >> > >> I may be voicing dissent here, but as you say "Let 1000 flowers bloom." > >>:-) > > > >At the risk of sounding boring, I think we're talking about the same > >thing. > > > >If we took the existing Inspector and replaced the icons at the top with > >horizontal labels we'd have something like (where "*this*" indicated > >hilited item): > > > >---------------- > >| Colors | > >---------------- > >|*Size* | > >---------------- > >| Behavior | > >---------------- > >| Other | > >---------------- > >| Favorites | > >---------------- > >| List of | > >| name-value | > >| properties | > >| for item | > >| hilited | > >| above | > >| goes | > >| here | > >---------------- > > > > > >An accordion style would keep all the labels visible, simply putting the > >scrolling list field of name-value property pairs immediately below the > >selection, taking the same amount of room but just making the header > >more readily associated with the list it delivers: > > > >---------------- > >| Colors | > >---------------- > >|*Size* | > >---------------- > >| List of | > >| name-value | > >| properties | > >| for item | > >| hilited | > >| above | > >| goes | > >| here | > >---------------- > >| Behavior | > >---------------- > >| Other | > >---------------- > >| Favorites | > >---------------- > > > > > > > >-- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 8 21:37:28 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 20:37:28 -0500 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616FD3C.4040705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56171A58.8000306@hyperactivesw.com> I like the side-pane idea best, but then, you and I are horizontal people. The vertical people probably prefer the expanding/collapsing list. Regarding ascii-drawing-fu: he cheats, he wrote a gizmo to do it. On 10/8/2015 7:12 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Your ascii-drawing-fu is quite skilled :-) > > No boredom at all. I see the difference you mention in limiting the > height of the property list. I had understood the selected pane would be > expanded to display ALL properties for the category, which could > potentially scroll Behavior/Other/Favorites out of view. > > I had to take stab at the option I suggested: > > --------------------------------------- > | Colors | List of | > ---------------- name-value | > |**Size** | properties | > ---------------- for item | > | Behavior | hilited | > ---------------- at left | > | Other | goes here | > ---------------- and maybe | > | Favorites | offers | > ---------------- more | > | vertical space | > | for the list | > -------------------------------------- > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 21:48:55 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:48:55 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE Message-ID: I'm seeing constant crashing of the IDE that I can't quite reproduce. I'm pretty sure that it's ore than one thing, as sometimes live code crashes while just opening a stack. But I'm starting to think I see a connect to it happening when a cursor has been left in a field or in an inspector. But I just can't pin it down. Are other people seeing this? When it happens, I get a crash every 3-5 mutes, and it's usually when I"m adjusting card elements, not while editing scripts. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 8 22:08:42 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 19:08:42 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616FD3C.4040705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Actually, no drawbacks at all. In Richard's case, you could expand multiple panes (as I think he mentioned), and in my case, the categories could be treated as toggles, being able to select more than one category to be displayed. And in both cases, if you're hard core, you could have an "All" option that would expand/show you everything at once. So no drawbacks that I see (the only limitation being screen real estate). Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/8/15, 6:25 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Peter Haworth" wrote: >The accordion list and Scott's suggestion (is that a "MIller list"?) both >have the drawback that you can only see one set of properties at a time. >That might be OK but it does mean more clicking around/remembering values >if you want to do that. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Oct 8 22:10:14 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 19:10:14 -0700 Subject: App Browser versus Project Browser In-Reply-To: <33b4614a16c479f85efc88079ecd198b@livecode.com> References: <56155F9A.9040703@gmail.com> <561565C6.1040902@gmail.com> <5615687E.5070508@gmail.com> <0A6CF3F5-1C27-4F2F-8FD9-3F80B7EB7B8F@livecode.com> <5615E22C.7050206@ahsoftware.net> <33b4614a16c479f85efc88079ecd198b@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56172206.8090706@ahsoftware.net> On 10/08/2015 09:05 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > As I said in another post (in reply to the original reply), this wasn't > the intent of my post - so apologies for any mis-inference that has been > took. Hee. no mis-inference here. You posted a hypothetical question, and I took the bait. No worries from my end. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Oct 8 22:23:29 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 19:23:29 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56172521.8060706@ahsoftware.net> On 10/08/2015 02:14 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > 2) The new inspector is *really* flexible for the classic objects. Have a > look at this fix for bug 16118 (no way to change a scrollbar's tooltip in > the property inspector): > https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/562/files Well, OK, I do have to thank you for fixing that, but I guess I really expected it to be fixed in the existing property editor, not so much in the experimental one. I guess filing the bug report against dp6 was a mistake, but that's the latest I still saw the problem in. > We'd like to make it as good and useful as possible. If the worst you can > say is you can't see any advantages, then I think the non-obvious ones > above make it well worth it ;-) Otherwise it would be great to hear > constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement. Well, I've been thinking of the the new IDE framework as just being that and allowing for plugin replacement of the various components. It seems from the App Browser / Project Browser and Property Inspector arguments that I've been expecting too much, and we really can't have alternatives. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Oct 8 22:59:02 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 22:59:02 -0400 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> I almost never see a crash. Maybe a handful of times since I started using LC in earnest, perhaps six years ago. I am still in 6.7, though, and rearely use anything fancy. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Hawkins To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2015 9:49 pm Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE I'm seeing constant crashing of the IDE that I can't quite reproduce. I'm pretty sure that it's ore than one thing, as sometimes live code crashes while just opening a stack. But I'm starting to think I see a connect to it happening when a cursor has been left in a field or in an inspector. But I just can't pin it down. Are other people seeing this? When it happens, I get a crash every 3-5 mutes, and it's usually when I"m adjusting card elements, not while editing scripts. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 8 23:37:46 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 03:37:46 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616FD3C.4040705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Right, I mentioned the toggle idea as a possible way to view multiple groups in your multi pane idea. Must have missed the reference to multiple expansions in Richard's post, that makes it the equivalent pf an expanding list I guess. It comes down to vertical vs horizontal preference again. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015, 7:10 PM Scott Rossi wrote: > Actually, no drawbacks at all. In Richard's case, you could expand > multiple panes (as I think he mentioned), and in my case, the categories > could be treated as toggles, being able to select more than one category > to be displayed. And in both cases, if you're hard core, you could have > an "All" option that would expand/show you everything at once. So no > drawbacks that I see (the only limitation being screen real estate). > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 10/8/15, 6:25 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Peter Haworth" > wrote: > > >The accordion list and Scott's suggestion (is that a "MIller list"?) both > >have the drawback that you can only see one set of properties at a time. > >That might be OK but it does mean more clicking around/remembering values > >if you want to do that. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Oct 9 03:35:08 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 07:35:08 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <56172521.8060706@ahsoftware.net> References: <56172521.8060706@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:23 AM Mark Wieder wrote: >It seems from the App Browser / Project Browser and Property Inspector >arguments that I've been expecting too much, and we really can't have >alternatives. I have no idea why you've drawn this conclusion, as I've repeatedly told you and said elsewhere that this is not the case. There are two separate issues here: 1) Our out-of-the-box palettes should be as useful as possible for someone with no plugins. Hence the soliciting of opinion. Disagree? I'm happy for a million application browsers to exist, I just don't want to maintain them. I can't understand how you're viewing the idea of seeking to improve the IDE's palettes as somehow a negative. 2) Making it possible to replace the palettes. Gradually the IDE routes all palette-related opening through a revIDEPaletteToStackName function. So once everything goes through that, and we provide a hook to override it, you will be able to use any stack in place of a given palette. Moreover the better the data provision for *our* palettes, the more useful IDE functions there are for replacement palettes to use. Whatever we add to a given object's inspector properties, for example, is parsed into the properties array that the IDE library passes to the inspector. Should a user plugin wish to use that array, adding the tooltip fixes it for them too. Adding tooltip to the old inspector helps no-one in this particular regard, as far as I can see. On 10/08/2015 02:14 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > 2) The new inspector is *really* flexible for the classic objects. Have a > > look at this fix for bug 16118 (no way to change a scrollbar's tooltip in > > the property inspector): > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/562/files > > > > > We'd like to make it as good and useful as possible. If the worst you can > > say is you can't see any advantages, then I think the non-obvious ones > > above make it well worth it ;-) Otherwise it would be great to hear > > constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement. > > Well, I've been thinking of the the new IDE framework as just being that > and allowing for plugin replacement of the various components. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tore.nilsen at me.com Fri Oct 9 07:41:13 2015 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:41:13 +0200 Subject: Download does not work in standalone Message-ID: <71BC3B55-1299-4E31-8142-C2D9DF2BA685@me.com> I am having trouble with this script in a standalone application for OSX. It works alright in the IDE, but will not work when a standalone is built. on mouseUp hide group "DownloadInfo" put gValgtLeksjon & ".pdf" into tFilNavn ask file "Velg hvor du vil lagre filen:" with tFilnavn as sheet if the result is not "Cancel" then put it into tPath if field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" is empty then put gThisPage & "/pdf" into tResourcePath else put field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" into tResourcePath end if put "Laster ned fil: " & tFilnavn into field "DownloadInfo" if char 1 to 4 of tResourcePath is not "http" then answer tResourcePath & " er ikke en gyldig lenke!" with "Avbryt" if it is "Avbryt" then exit mouseUp end if end if libURLSetStatusCallback "showProgress",the long ID of me libURLDownloadToFile tResourcePath,tPath,"downloadComplete" end if end mouseUp I also had some problems with the CEF-browser, but choosing libraries manually in the standalone settings solved that problem. Somehow it seems as if the internet library is not included in the standalone files. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to this problem. Regards Tore Nilsen From mail at richard-hillen.de Fri Oct 9 08:33:41 2015 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:33:41 +0200 Subject: Data Validation of copied Data in a field Message-ID: Hello list, until now I used the closefield message to validate data typed into a field. This worked until someone copied the data into the input field. To validate such copied data too, I look for a method / message to trigger the data validation after pasting. But I didn?t find a solution. There is a message ?passkey? which I didn?t get it to work. May you help? Richard. (LC 6.7.4 on OS X 10.10) From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Oct 9 08:35:19 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:35:19 -0400 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: All of the crashes I have seen in the IDE have been the result of plugins - I'm not saying that the plugins were buggy, but something broke with the plugins in place. A couple of times, I've discovered that if the plugins are set to start with the IDE, it will crash, but if I start them after the IDE has loaded, all's well. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:59 PM, wrote: > I almost never see a crash. Maybe a handful of times since I started using > LC in earnest, perhaps six years ago. I am still in 6.7, though, and > rearely use anything fancy. > > > Craig Newman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dr. Hawkins > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2015 9:49 pm > Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE > > > I'm seeing constant crashing of the IDE that I can't quite reproduce. > I'm > pretty sure that it's ore than one thing, as sometimes live code > crashes > while just opening a stack. > > But I'm starting to think I see a > connect to it happening when a cursor has > been left in a field or in an > inspector. But I just can't pin it down. > > Are other people seeing this? When > it happens, I get a crash every 3-5 > mutes, and it's usually when I"m adjusting > card elements, not while editing > scripts. > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, > Esq. > (702) > 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing > list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, > unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Oct 9 08:38:25 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:38:25 -0400 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: <22180CE9-010C-4824-A668-4823C6305585@sweattechnologies.com> References: <22180CE9-010C-4824-A668-4823C6305585@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: wow, what a pain. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Oh, you also need to add the official repo as a remote on your fork: > > git remote add upstream https://github.com/livecode/livecode.git < > https://github.com/livecode/livecode.git> > > This adds the official repo as a remote named upstream which is the normal > name of the original repo when you have a fork. Your fork is called origin. > What you want to do is pull the changes from upstream (the company repo), > make commits and push them to origin (your fork). If you have anything to > contribute you can then send a pull request which is basically a request > for them to merge in the changes on a branch on your fork into the official > repo. > > Now that you have added upstream as a remote you want to set the upstream > of each of the official branches that you have checked out. Say you have > checked out develop (livecode 8) then you want to do this: > > git branch --set-upstream develop upstream/develop > > This means that when you checkout develop and pull it will automatically > pull from the upstream remote (the company repo) rather than your origin > remote (your fork). > > Anyway I hope that helps ;-) > > > On 9 Oct 2015, at 5:55 am, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > 1) In Git, if I have a fork, but then there are updates to the master > > branch, and I want to take those and replace at least some of the > contents > > in my fork, do I have to create a new fork and download the entire > project, > > again? That seems like it would screw up the things I've been working on > > in my fork, and mean that I would have to manually re-integrated the > things > > I'm doing in the files I'm working on. > > > > 2) I've been messing around with various widgets, but I'm not messing > with > > the engine, but there does not seem to be a way to fork part of the > project > > without forking all of it. > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 9 08:48:11 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:48:11 +0200 Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? Message-ID: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> Hello, I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? Thanks Tiemo From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Oct 9 08:54:36 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:54:36 -0400 Subject: Data Validation of copied Data in a field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1504caad8e9-714a-32491@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> Why not use the "textChanged" message? It does not care about the method that the user might use to, er, change the text. On the other point, did you mean the "pasteKey" message? This is trapped by the IDE unless you turn off development tools. Check out the "Development" menu. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Hillen Richard To: use-livecode Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 8:34 am Subject: Data Validation of copied Data in a field Hello list, until now I used the closefield message to validate data typed into a field. This worked until someone copied the data into the input field. To validate such copied data too, I look for a method / message to trigger the data validation after pasting. But I didn?t find a solution. There is a message ?passkey? which I didn?t get it to work. May you help? Richard. (LC 6.7.4 on OS X 10.10) _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Oct 9 09:00:02 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:00:02 -0400 Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> Why not set the toolTip to the text of the button? I don't know how large a display that would be, or whether that format would be tenable. You could always use the "mouseWithin" message to display a field, offset a bit from the combo. and display the text of the button. At least you can control the properties of the field. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Tiemo Hollmann TB To: LiveCode User Liste senden Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 8:50 am Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? Hello, I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? Thanks Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Oct 9 08:53:36 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 05:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <1444395216703-4697095.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi. I should have mentioned that the "mouseEnter" message would be the best to set the toolTip, and perhaps as well to display that field, should you want to go that route. Craig -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-access-the-text-of-an-option-btn-before-menuPick-tp4697092p4697095.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 9 09:51:04 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 15:51:04 +0200 Subject: AW: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> Hi Craig, I don't want to display the full text of the option button, but only one line of the text while hovering the text (or right click buttonDown on a single line), so that the user can see, what he would choose, if he clicks any line. I think my problem is that "the hilitedline" works only with fields and not with the text of an option button, as far as I see it. Thank you Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von dunbarx at aol.com Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2015 15:00 An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Betreff: Re: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? Why not set the toolTip to the text of the button? I don't know how large a display that would be, or whether that format would be tenable. You could always use the "mouseWithin" message to display a field, offset a bit from the combo. and display the text of the button. At least you can control the properties of the field. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Tiemo Hollmann TB To: LiveCode User Liste senden Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 8:50 am Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? Hello, I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? Thanks Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 09:53:09 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 06:53:09 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 5:35 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > All of the crashes I have seen in the IDE have been the result of plugins - > I have *no* plugins and one library stack with scripts. I see a few crashes an hour when this is happening, the majority happening when I save. About 80% of the time on those, I end up with a truncated file. When I get repeated crashes when saving, I try opening livecode, turning off messages, saving, making a small number of changes, and saving again, which usually gets me there. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 10:32:22 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:32:22 -0400 Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> Message-ID: One solution that I use is a home-made popup list. It takes 10 minutes of set-up but once you have it in place you can call this function on mouseup anywhere you want it. The basic idea is to have a separate popup button in your stack (invisible) that is loaded on the fly then shown with a "popup btn xxx" command. See below. Can be used for right-click contextual menus too. Anywhere. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ------- function popChoose -- popChoose() is the equivalent of the "answer" command, but for a pop-up list -- pops up a list of options, returns the option chosen by the user, -- if no option chosen, exits to top -- you must have a button "contextualMenu" -- button style = menu, menumode = popup, name = "contextualMenu" -- the button should be placed in your mainstack or a library stack -- button can be made invisible when you're done, if you like -- the button script needs only one handler: -- on menupick what -- set the uSelection of me to what -- end menupick -- paste this handler into a suitable stack script, so it's available anywhere -- could be the same stack the button is in, but that's not necessary -- enter the short name of the stack containing the button -- into the constant declaration below -- popChoose() can accept a cr-delimited list of choices -- or a comma-delimited list -- eg: put "parsley" & cr & "sage" & cr & "rosemary" into choiceList -- put popChoose(choiceList) into userChoice -- or: put popChoose(choice1,choice2,choice3) into userChoice -- or: put popChoose("parsley","sage","rosemary","-","thyme") \ -- into userChoice -- if you need the line number of the chosen item, check the dialogdata -- after calling popChoose() -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware constant popChooseStackName = "yourLibraryStack" repeat with n = 1 to paramcount() put param(n) & cr after tList end repeat delete char -1 of tList put empty into u set the uSelection of btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName to empty put tList into btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName popup btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName put the menuhistory of btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName \ into lineNbr put the uSelection of btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName into u set the uSelection of btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName to empty put empty into btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName -- belt and suspenders, don't leave contents hanging around select empty if u = empty then exit to top -- ie, mouseRelease, no action end if set the dialogdata to lineNbr return u end popChoose On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hi Craig, > > I don't want to display the full text of the option button, but only one > line of the text while hovering the text (or right click buttonDown on a > single line), so that the user can see, what he would choose, if he clicks > any line. > I think my problem is that "the hilitedline" works only with fields and not > with the text of an option button, as far as I see it. > Thank you > Tiemo > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag > von dunbarx at aol.com > Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2015 15:00 > An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Betreff: Re: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? > > Why not set the toolTip to the text of the button? I don't know how large a > display that would be, or whether that format would be tenable. > > > You could always use the "mouseWithin" message to display a field, offset a > bit from the combo. and display the text of the button. At least you can > control the properties of the field. > > > Craig Newman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tiemo Hollmann TB > To: LiveCode User Liste senden > Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 8:50 am > Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? > > > Hello, > > I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button > itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout > restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. > > Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of > the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right > click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or > anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. > > Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing > list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, > unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 9 10:38:39 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:38:39 +0000 Subject: Data Validation of copied Data in a field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> Are you saying that the closefield is not triggered when you leave the field after pasting text??? Very odd! You can use the textChanged message, but that will get triggered every time someone types text. That would be very hard to work with, timing loops and all. Try setting a breakpoint in your closeField handler then pasting text into the field. I have a hard time believing closeField is not being triggered. Bob S > On Oct 9, 2015, at 05:33 , Hillen Richard wrote: > > Hello list, > > until now I used the closefield message to validate data typed into a field. > This worked until someone copied the data into the input field. > > To validate such copied data too, I look for a method / message to trigger the data validation after pasting. > But I didn?t find a solution. > There is a message ?passkey? which I didn?t get it to work. > > May you help? > > Richard. > (LC 6.7.4 on OS X 10.10) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 9 10:41:45 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:41:45 +0000 Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> Message-ID: I wouldn't use an option buttin in this case, I'd use a multi-line field. You can preface each option with a bullet and tab (I use a graphic for a bullet to maintain cross platform look and feel). Bob S On Oct 9, 2015, at 06:51 , Tiemo Hollmann TB > wrote: Hello, I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? Thanks Tiemo From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 9 10:52:45 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:52:45 +0200 Subject: AW: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <007d01d102a2$28ad2b50$7a0781f0$@kestner.de> Thanks for the idea Bob Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Sneidar Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2015 16:42 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? I wouldn't use an option buttin in this case, I'd use a multi-line field. You can preface each option with a bullet and tab (I use a graphic for a bullet to maintain cross platform look and feel). Bob S On Oct 9, 2015, at 06:51 , Tiemo Hollmann TB > wrote: Hello, I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? Thanks Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 9 10:53:25 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:53:25 +0200 Subject: AW: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <007e01d102a2$40570fa0$c1052ee0$@kestner.de> Thanks fort he idea Peter Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Peter M. Brigham Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2015 16:32 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? One solution that I use is a home-made popup list. It takes 10 minutes of set-up but once you have it in place you can call this function on mouseup anywhere you want it. The basic idea is to have a separate popup button in your stack (invisible) that is loaded on the fly then shown with a "popup btn xxx" command. See below. Can be used for right-click contextual menus too. Anywhere. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ------- function popChoose -- popChoose() is the equivalent of the "answer" command, but for a pop-up list -- pops up a list of options, returns the option chosen by the user, -- if no option chosen, exits to top -- you must have a button "contextualMenu" -- button style = menu, menumode = popup, name = "contextualMenu" -- the button should be placed in your mainstack or a library stack -- button can be made invisible when you're done, if you like -- the button script needs only one handler: -- on menupick what -- set the uSelection of me to what -- end menupick -- paste this handler into a suitable stack script, so it's available anywhere -- could be the same stack the button is in, but that's not necessary -- enter the short name of the stack containing the button -- into the constant declaration below -- popChoose() can accept a cr-delimited list of choices -- or a comma-delimited list -- eg: put "parsley" & cr & "sage" & cr & "rosemary" into choiceList -- put popChoose(choiceList) into userChoice -- or: put popChoose(choice1,choice2,choice3) into userChoice -- or: put popChoose("parsley","sage","rosemary","-","thyme") \ -- into userChoice -- if you need the line number of the chosen item, check the dialogdata -- after calling popChoose() -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware constant popChooseStackName = "yourLibraryStack" repeat with n = 1 to paramcount() put param(n) & cr after tList end repeat delete char -1 of tList put empty into u set the uSelection of btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName to empty put tList into btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName popup btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName put the menuhistory of btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName \ into lineNbr put the uSelection of btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName into u set the uSelection of btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName to empty put empty into btn "contextualMenu" of stack popChooseStackName -- belt and suspenders, don't leave contents hanging around select empty if u = empty then exit to top -- ie, mouseRelease, no action end if set the dialogdata to lineNbr return u end popChoose On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hi Craig, > > I don't want to display the full text of the option button, but only > one line of the text while hovering the text (or right click > buttonDown on a single line), so that the user can see, what he would > choose, if he clicks any line. > I think my problem is that "the hilitedline" works only with fields > and not with the text of an option button, as far as I see it. > Thank you > Tiemo > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im > Auftrag von dunbarx at aol.com > Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2015 15:00 > An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Betreff: Re: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? > > Why not set the toolTip to the text of the button? I don't know how > large a display that would be, or whether that format would be tenable. > > > You could always use the "mouseWithin" message to display a field, > offset a bit from the combo. and display the text of the button. At > least you can control the properties of the field. > > > Craig Newman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tiemo Hollmann TB > To: LiveCode User Liste senden > Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 8:50 am > Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? > > > Hello, > > I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the > button itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout > restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. > > Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full > content of the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by > hovering or right click or anything else I would like to put the line > into the tooltip or anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. > > Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing > list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, > unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Oct 9 11:12:16 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:12:16 -0400 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> References: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> Hi there, I was thinking about how RunRev could expand it?s user base, and I thought for fun I?d see if it was at least listed in the Apple App store for the Macintosh. To my astonishment, I found It is not listed there at all! It seems to me that it would at least be a good venue to have it listed there for some free advertising. I?m wondering why Kevin and the team haven?t listed it there as a potential way to expand it?s customer base? LiveCode should also be made available in the other app stores too! Just my 2 cents for the day. ;-) Rick From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 9 11:20:45 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:20:45 -0400 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> References: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: If not LiveCode itself, then at least a downloader app which grabs the latest Stable GM. Most Windows users (regular folks) have no idea that programming in actually within their reach. So yeah. ALL desktop app stores should have LC in-stock. Great idea, Rick ~Roger On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Rick Harrison wrote: > Hi there, > > I was thinking about how RunRev could expand it?s user base, > and I thought for fun I?d see if it was at least listed in the > Apple App store for the Macintosh. > > To my astonishment, I found It is not listed there at all! > > It seems to me that it would at least be a good venue > to have it listed there for some free advertising. > > I?m wondering why Kevin and the team haven?t > listed it there as a potential way to expand it?s > customer base? > > LiveCode should also be made available in > the other app stores too! > > Just my 2 cents for the day. ;-) > > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Oct 9 11:44:11 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 17:44:11 +0200 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: References: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: So you see any installers in the Mac App Store? Maintaining the App Store is a lot of extra work. It would be great if LC were available there, but the work is probably what keep RunRev from doing so. -- Kind regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Http://economy-x-talk.com Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com Op 9 okt. 2015 om 17:20 heeft Roger Eller het volgende geschreven: > If not LiveCode itself, then at least a downloader app which grabs the > latest Stable GM. Most Windows users (regular folks) have no idea that > programming in actually within their reach. So yeah. ALL desktop app > stores should have LC in-stock. Great idea, Rick > > ~Roger > > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Rick Harrison > wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> I was thinking about how RunRev could expand it?s user base, >> and I thought for fun I?d see if it was at least listed in the >> Apple App store for the Macintosh. >> >> To my astonishment, I found It is not listed there at all! >> >> It seems to me that it would at least be a good venue >> to have it listed there for some free advertising. >> >> I?m wondering why Kevin and the team haven?t >> listed it there as a potential way to expand it?s >> customer base? >> >> LiveCode should also be made available in >> the other app stores too! >> >> Just my 2 cents for the day. ;-) >> >> Rick >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 9 11:46:31 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:46:31 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5617E157.7030205@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > Would be great if you get flexible groupings going. Having been > through implementing this, one thing to watch out for is that there > isn't a way to get a complete list of properties for a particular > object type. I know some synonyms are missing, but the properties function was added to allow rapid reproduction of an object, so while it may not substitute for the Dictionary it should be at least functional for most practical development uses. What properties does a developer need that aren't included? Let's bug report those and get it behind us. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Oct 9 11:47:16 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 17:47:16 +0200 Subject: Download does not work in standalone In-Reply-To: <71BC3B55-1299-4E31-8142-C2D9DF2BA685@me.com> References: <71BC3B55-1299-4E31-8142-C2D9DF2BA685@me.com> Message-ID: Did you include the Internet library (is not the browser external) in your standalone, in de standalone application settings? -- Kind regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Http://economy-x-talk.com Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com Op 9 okt. 2015 om 13:41 heeft Tore Nilsen het volgende geschreven: > I am having trouble with this script in a standalone application for OSX. It works alright in the IDE, but will not work when a standalone is built. > > on mouseUp > hide group "DownloadInfo" > put gValgtLeksjon & ".pdf" into tFilNavn > ask file "Velg hvor du vil lagre filen:" with tFilnavn as sheet > if the result is not "Cancel" then > put it into tPath > if field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" is empty then > put gThisPage & "/pdf" into tResourcePath > else > put field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" into tResourcePath > end if > put "Laster ned fil: " & tFilnavn into field "DownloadInfo" > if char 1 to 4 of tResourcePath is not "http" then > answer tResourcePath & " er ikke en gyldig lenke!" with "Avbryt" > if it is "Avbryt" then > exit mouseUp > end if > end if > libURLSetStatusCallback "showProgress",the long ID of me > libURLDownloadToFile tResourcePath,tPath,"downloadComplete" > end if > end mouseUp > > I also had some problems with the CEF-browser, but choosing libraries manually in the standalone settings solved that problem. Somehow it seems as if the internet library is not included in the standalone files. > > I wonder if anyone has any solutions to this problem. > > Regards > Tore Nilsen > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Oct 9 11:50:40 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 11:50:40 -0400 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: References: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <5617E250.40304@researchware.com> On 10/9/2015 11:44 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > So you see any installers in the Mac App Store? Maintaining the App Store is a lot of extra work. It would be great if LC were available there, but the work is probably what keep RunRev from doing so. Not to mention the ridiculously high percentage of every sale Apple demands for any commercial App in the OSX or iOS app stores. There are a lot of business reasons NOT to sell through Apple's App stores if you don't absolutely have to (i.e. iOS) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 9 11:51:54 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:51:54 -0700 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5617E29A.3080507@fourthworld.com> Github is simple - if what you're building is the Linux kernel, which is what it was designed for. ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Mike Kerner wrote: > wow, what a pain. > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Monte Goulding > wrote: > >> Oh, you also need to add the official repo as a remote on your fork: >> >> git remote add upstream https://github.com/livecode/livecode.git < >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode.git> >> >> This adds the official repo as a remote named upstream which is the normal >> name of the original repo when you have a fork. Your fork is called origin. >> What you want to do is pull the changes from upstream (the company repo), >> make commits and push them to origin (your fork). If you have anything to >> contribute you can then send a pull request which is basically a request >> for them to merge in the changes on a branch on your fork into the official >> repo. >> >> Now that you have added upstream as a remote you want to set the upstream >> of each of the official branches that you have checked out. Say you have >> checked out develop (livecode 8) then you want to do this: >> >> git branch --set-upstream develop upstream/develop >> >> This means that when you checkout develop and pull it will automatically >> pull from the upstream remote (the company repo) rather than your origin >> remote (your fork). >> >> Anyway I hope that helps ;-) >> >> > On 9 Oct 2015, at 5:55 am, Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> > >> > 1) In Git, if I have a fork, but then there are updates to the master >> > branch, and I want to take those and replace at least some of the >> contents >> > in my fork, do I have to create a new fork and download the entire >> project, >> > again? That seems like it would screw up the things I've been working on >> > in my fork, and mean that I would have to manually re-integrated the >> things >> > I'm doing in the files I'm working on. >> > >> > 2) I've been messing around with various widgets, but I'm not messing >> with >> > the engine, but there does not seem to be a way to fork part of the >> project >> > without forking all of it. >> > >> > -- >> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> > On the second day, God created the oceans. >> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > and did a little diving. >> > And God said, "This is good." From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Oct 9 11:49:21 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:49:21 +0100 Subject: Building for iOS - which LiveCode with which Xcode? (with which iOS?) Message-ID: <5617E201.7000309@cogapp.com> Is there by any chance, or could there be, a table showing versions of LiveCode will work with which versions of XCode (and build for which version of iOS)? I see messages flow by that LC x.y is having a problem with Xcode a.b, and sometimes an answer that you should use XCode c.d instead (or LC p.q)... but it's frustrating trying to fish in these pools (the lists, the forums) to figure out these combinations (and mostly one just pulls out known-not-working combinations). Failing a full on table - it would be helpful to just have any reports of known-working combinations. I.e. can anyone report "I am currently succesfully using LC x with XCode y and building for iOS z"? TIA, Ben From tore.nilsen at me.com Fri Oct 9 11:52:43 2015 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 17:52:43 +0200 Subject: Download does not work in standalone In-Reply-To: References: <71BC3B55-1299-4E31-8142-C2D9DF2BA685@me.com> Message-ID: <5FB44968-97AF-4797-A0C2-DF6697DB1BB4@me.com> Yes, at least I manually selected it in the standalone application settings, as my experiences with the CEF-library was that it would not be included automatically. But it seems as if the Internet library is not included in the build anyway. I have tried to reset it on several occasions. At best it seems to be downloading, but showProgress is not triggered, and the downloaded file is empty. I am on Indy 7.1 on OSX 10.11. Tore > 9. okt. 2015 kl. 17.47 skrev Mark Schonewille : > > Did you include the Internet library (is not the browser external) in your standalone, in de standalone application settings? > > -- > Kind regards, > > Mark Schonewille > Economy-x-Talk > Http://economy-x-talk.com > > Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com > > > Op 9 okt. 2015 om 13:41 heeft Tore Nilsen het volgende geschreven: > >> I am having trouble with this script in a standalone application for OSX. It works alright in the IDE, but will not work when a standalone is built. >> >> on mouseUp >> hide group "DownloadInfo" >> put gValgtLeksjon & ".pdf" into tFilNavn >> ask file "Velg hvor du vil lagre filen:" with tFilnavn as sheet >> if the result is not "Cancel" then >> put it into tPath >> if field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" is empty then >> put gThisPage & "/pdf" into tResourcePath >> else >> put field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" into tResourcePath >> end if >> put "Laster ned fil: " & tFilnavn into field "DownloadInfo" >> if char 1 to 4 of tResourcePath is not "http" then >> answer tResourcePath & " er ikke en gyldig lenke!" with "Avbryt" >> if it is "Avbryt" then >> exit mouseUp >> end if >> end if >> libURLSetStatusCallback "showProgress",the long ID of me >> libURLDownloadToFile tResourcePath,tPath,"downloadComplete" >> end if >> end mouseUp >> >> I also had some problems with the CEF-browser, but choosing libraries manually in the standalone settings solved that problem. Somehow it seems as if the internet library is not included in the standalone files. >> >> I wonder if anyone has any solutions to this problem. >> >> Regards >> Tore Nilsen >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 9 12:03:00 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:03:00 -0700 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> References: <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <5617E534.3040709@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > I was thinking about how RunRev could expand it?s user base, > and I thought for fun I?d see if it was at least listed in the > Apple App store for the Macintosh. > > To my astonishment, I found It is not listed there at all! I don't think you'll find Ruby, Lua, R, or even Xojo there either. Nor a lot of very powerful and popular apps like DiskWarrior, TextExpander, and others. Python's preinstalled, but if it weren't I doubt it'd be in the app store either. Apple's app store is for the subset of apps in the larger Mac ecosystem with a consumer focus that can work well within their sandbox requirements. Developer tools are generally absent from the app store, as are all apps that provide utility beyond the confines of the sandbox. Many other apps aren't there simply because some devs find it annoying, or simply don't want to cut their revenue by 30%. Background (many of the other articles these link to are also worth reading): -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 9 12:04:28 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:04:28 +0000 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: References: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <6434D39E-5F26-40D6-9825-27A040FFE365@iotecdigital.com> Isn't it about work vs. potential sales? If I could work my ass off for 2 years 14 hours a day with nary a day off, but had a real good chance of having all the money I needed to retire for life, hell yes I'd do it! Bob S On Oct 9, 2015, at 08:44 , Mark Schonewille > wrote: So you see any installers in the Mac App Store? Maintaining the App Store is a lot of extra work. It would be great if LC were available there, but the work is probably what keep RunRev from doing so. -- Kind regards, Mark Schonewille From mail at richard-hillen.de Fri Oct 9 12:26:59 2015 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:26:59 +0200 Subject: Data Validation of copied Data in a field Message-ID: <5E212D25-98A9-44CE-BD86-3C2524AD2E86@richard-hillen.de> Thank you for your quick and helpfull response: To Craig Newman: - textChanged is sent after each typed character; DataValidation should start after the end of Typing; so it needs extra coding :-( - Hint re "pasteKey trapped by IDE" will help. To Bob Sneidar: - The CloseFiled msg is sent after pressing return, tab or? -> press return after pasting data or use pasteKey-msg! I?ll try! Richard. > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:54:36 -0400 > From: dunbarx at aol.com > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Data Validation of copied Data in a field > Message-ID: <1504caad8e9-714a-32491 at webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Why not use the "textChanged" message? It does not care about the method that the user might use to, er, change the text. > > > On the other point, did you mean the "pasteKey" message? This is trapped by the IDE unless you turn off development tools. Check out the "Development" menu. > > > Craig Newman > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:38:39 +0000 > From: Bob Sneidar > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: Data Validation of copied Data in a field > Message-ID: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6 at iotecdigital.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Are you saying that the closefield is not triggered when you leave the field after pasting text??? Very odd! You can use the textChanged message, but that will get triggered every time someone types text. That would be very hard to work with, timing loops and all. > > Try setting a breakpoint in your closeField handler then pasting text into the field. I have a hard time believing closeField is not being triggered. > > Bob S > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hillen Richard > To: use-livecode > Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 8:34 am > Subject: Data Validation of copied Data in a field > > > Hello list, > > until now I used the closefield message to validate data typed into > a field. > This worked until someone copied the data into the input field. > > To > validate such copied data too, I look for a method / message to trigger the data > validation after pasting. > But I didn?t find a solution. > There is a message > ?passkey? which I didn?t get it to work. > > May you help? > > Richard. > (LC 6.7.4 on > OS X 10.10) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing > list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, > unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > ??????????????? From gbojsza at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 12:45:57 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:45:57 -0400 Subject: Buttons, buttons...who has the buttons Message-ID: Or better question when will the button and field components from earlier versions of LC be available as SVG widgets in LC 8 and beyond. Is there any place someone can recommend to get SVG widgets for: default button option menu pulldown menu combo menu popup menu Trevor's webinar showed some really nice buttons but they are proprietary and not available. If someone could make a bundle and put into the LC store I would be interested. thanks, Glen From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 9 12:51:25 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:51:25 -0400 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: References: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: This is why I suggested a "smart" downloader, so it could be maintenance-free. Publishing a new app for every version would indeed be a pain. On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > So you see any installers in the Mac App Store? Maintaining the App Store > is a lot of extra work. It would be great if LC were available there, but > the work is probably what keep RunRev from doing so. > > -- > Kind regards, > > Mark Schonewille > Economy-x-Talk > Http://economy-x-talk.com > > Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard > Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com > > > Op 9 okt. 2015 om 17:20 heeft Roger Eller > het volgende geschreven: > > > If not LiveCode itself, then at least a downloader app which grabs the > > latest Stable GM. Most Windows users (regular folks) have no idea that > > programming in actually within their reach. So yeah. ALL desktop app > > stores should have LC in-stock. Great idea, Rick > > > > ~Roger > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Rick Harrison < > harrison at all-auctions.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Hi there, > >> > >> I was thinking about how RunRev could expand it?s user base, > >> and I thought for fun I?d see if it was at least listed in the > >> Apple App store for the Macintosh. > >> > >> To my astonishment, I found It is not listed there at all! > >> > >> It seems to me that it would at least be a good venue > >> to have it listed there for some free advertising. > >> > >> I?m wondering why Kevin and the team haven?t > >> listed it there as a potential way to expand it?s > >> customer base? > >> > >> LiveCode should also be made available in > >> the other app stores too! > >> > >> Just my 2 cents for the day. ;-) > >> > >> Rick > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Oct 9 12:54:54 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:54:54 +0200 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: References: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <6FB1D86D-3B43-4FEB-A097-3B55A70CCF58@economy-x-talk.com> That's why I wrote "there are no installers in the app store". You can't do that. -- Kind regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Http://economy-x-talk.com Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com Op 9 okt. 2015 om 18:51 heeft Roger Eller het volgende geschreven: > This is why I suggested a "smart" downloader, so it could be > maintenance-free. Publishing a new app for every version would indeed be a > pain. > > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mark Schonewille < > m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > >> So you see any installers in the Mac App Store? Maintaining the App Store >> is a lot of extra work. It would be great if LC were available there, but >> the work is probably what keep RunRev from doing so. >> >> -- >> Kind regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> Economy-x-Talk >> Http://economy-x-talk.com >> >> Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard >> Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com >> >> >> Op 9 okt. 2015 om 17:20 heeft Roger Eller >> het volgende geschreven: >> >>> If not LiveCode itself, then at least a downloader app which grabs the >>> latest Stable GM. Most Windows users (regular folks) have no idea that >>> programming in actually within their reach. So yeah. ALL desktop app >>> stores should have LC in-stock. Great idea, Rick >>> >>> ~Roger >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Rick Harrison < >> harrison at all-auctions.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I was thinking about how RunRev could expand it?s user base, >>>> and I thought for fun I?d see if it was at least listed in the >>>> Apple App store for the Macintosh. >>>> >>>> To my astonishment, I found It is not listed there at all! >>>> >>>> It seems to me that it would at least be a good venue >>>> to have it listed there for some free advertising. >>>> >>>> I?m wondering why Kevin and the team haven?t >>>> listed it there as a potential way to expand it?s >>>> customer base? >>>> >>>> LiveCode should also be made available in >>>> the other app stores too! >>>> >>>> Just my 2 cents for the day. ;-) >>>> >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 12:57:17 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 19:57:17 +0300 Subject: Vector images? Message-ID: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as vector graphics was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? Richmond. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 9 12:59:04 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:59:04 -0400 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: <5617E534.3040709@fourthworld.com> References: <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> <5617E534.3040709@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Developer tools are generally absent from the app store, as are all apps > that provide utility beyond the confines of the sandbox. Many other apps > aren't there simply because some devs find it annoying, or simply don't > want to cut their revenue by 30%. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > LiveCode devs are encouraged to use the app store, even at a 30% loss, so why not the mothership herself? What's good for the goose, as they say... Can a free app not exist in the app store just to bring an awareness of what LiveCode is? Probably not. ~Roger From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 12:59:57 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 19:59:57 +0300 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <5617F28D.5080500@gmail.com> On 09/10/15 05:59, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > I almost never see a crash. Maybe a handful of times since I started using LC in earnest, perhaps six years ago. I am still in 6.7, though, and rearely use anything fancy. I have noticed the occasional crash, extremely rarely. I generally download every community release onto Linux, Windows 7 and Mac OS Mavericks (VMware). Richmond. > > > Craig Newman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dr. Hawkins > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2015 9:49 pm > Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE > > > I'm seeing constant crashing of the IDE that I can't quite reproduce. > I'm > pretty sure that it's ore than one thing, as sometimes live code > crashes > while just opening a stack. > > But I'm starting to think I see a > connect to it happening when a cursor has > been left in a field or in an > inspector. But I just can't pin it down. > > Are other people seeing this? When > it happens, I get a crash every 3-5 > mutes, and it's usually when I"m adjusting > card elements, not while editing > scripts. > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 9 13:06:37 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:06:37 -0400 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: <6FB1D86D-3B43-4FEB-A097-3B55A70CCF58@economy-x-talk.com> References: <430AB2D9-1BF3-40B5-B8C4-CAD8891021C6@iotecdigital.com> <69CC2CF2-9A58-4F71-BC83-1AF916A54567@all-auctions.com> <6FB1D86D-3B43-4FEB-A097-3B55A70CCF58@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Ok then. Even a limited version that isn't maintained with frequent updates is better than nothing at all. At least there would be a chance of a user of LC limited doing a google search and finding that more advanced products exist at livecode.com without even providing a link or hint inside the limited app. That is as long as the app in named LiveCode something something. ~Roger On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > That's why I wrote "there are no installers in the app store". You can't > do that. > > -- > Kind regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Op 9 okt. 2015 om 18:51 heeft Roger Eller > het volgende geschreven: > > > This is why I suggested a "smart" downloader, so it could be > > maintenance-free. Publishing a new app for every version would indeed > be a > > pain. > > > > From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Oct 9 12:56:57 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 17:56:57 +0100 Subject: Building for iOS - which LiveCode with which Xcode? (with which iOS?) In-Reply-To: <5617E201.7000309@cogapp.com> References: <5617E201.7000309@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <5617F1D9.5090700@cogapp.com> OMG I've found it! Weirdly greyed out... https://livecode.com/support/ask-a-question/what-iosxcode-version-matches-which-version-of-livecode/ On 09/10/2015 16:49, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Is there by any chance, or could there be, a table showing versions of > LiveCode will work with which versions of XCode (and build for which version > of iOS)? > > I see messages flow by that LC x.y is having a problem with Xcode a.b, and > sometimes an answer that you should use XCode c.d instead (or LC p.q)... but > it's frustrating trying to fish in these pools (the lists, the forums) to > figure out these combinations (and mostly one just pulls out known-not-working > combinations). > > Failing a full on table - it would be helpful to just have any reports of > known-working combinations. I.e. can anyone report "I am currently > succesfully using LC x with XCode y and building for iOS z"? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From colinholgate at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 13:08:02 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:08:02 -0400 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54744DA9-F329-455D-A2E9-90BA2094A53E@gmail.com> My guess is that it?s because it might have been a goal in the Kickstarter campaign. That may be why they added the SVG Widget. You should try it. > On Oct 9, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Richmond wrote: > > Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as vector graphics > was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 9 13:13:14 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:13:14 -0700 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5617F5AA.5000309@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > LiveCode devs are encouraged to use the app store, even at a 30% loss, so > why not the mothership herself? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Fri Oct 9 13:13:58 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:13:58 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5617E157.7030205@fourthworld.com> References: <5617E157.7030205@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I've filed several bug reports over the last couple of years regarding missing properties, mostly related to propertynames and glad to say they have all been fixed so things are a lot better now than they used to be. The propertynames still includes things that don't seem like properties to me, "abbrev" and "working" for example, but no doubt there's a good reason for that Regarding your question on which properties are missing that a developer needs, the answer for me is all the ones that are no longer returned by the properties of an object and here's why. As I've mentioned in other emails on this thread, lcStackbrowser gives users the flexibility to organize properties into groups. I do this by displaying a list of all the properties for a particular object type, from which users can drag and drop their chosen properties into a group list. I get that list from the keys of the properties array for the template for whatever type of object I'm dealing with, but with this change, the list was suddenly incomplete. As an example, the height and width properties are no longer included. Their values can be derived from the rectangle property which is fine if you want to recreate an object or use their values for some other reason but I need their names, not their values. I ended up writing a handler that goes through the propertynames list and tries to set each one into each of the object templates to determine which object types it applies to, a time consuming process that really shouldn't be necessary. That's all water under the bridge now but I still don't understand why the contents of the properties property were changed. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:46 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > Would be great if you get flexible groupings going. Having been > > through implementing this, one thing to watch out for is that there > > isn't a way to get a complete list of properties for a particular > > object type. > > I know some synonyms are missing, but the properties function was added to > allow rapid reproduction of an object, so while it may not substitute for > the Dictionary it should be at least functional for most practical > development uses. > > What properties does a developer need that aren't included? > > Let's bug report those and get it behind us. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 13:21:04 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 20:21:04 +0300 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <54744DA9-F329-455D-A2E9-90BA2094A53E@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <54744DA9-F329-455D-A2E9-90BA2094A53E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5617F780.7070002@gmail.com> On 09/10/15 20:08, Colin Holgate wrote: > My guess is that it?s because it might have been a goal in the Kickstarter campaign. That may be why they added the SVG Widget. You should try it. Well, I did and could not for the life of me work out how it worked. I ended up with what looked like a Communist star, and no indication how I could import, for the sake of argument, a dollar sign in .svg format. Richmond. > >> On Oct 9, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as vector graphics >> was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 9 13:21:24 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:21:24 -0400 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: <5617F5AA.5000309@fourthworld.com> References: <5617F5AA.5000309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Roger Eller wrote: > > LiveCode devs are encouraged to use the app store, even at a 30% loss, so >> why not the mothership herself? >> > > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > I see that "loop forever" you tried to put me in, Richard. That's not nice. ;-) Ok, forget Apple for a minute. Try the same conversation, but dealing with Ubuntu repositories. There's plenty of dev software in that app store. ~Roger From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 9 13:24:03 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:24:03 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5617F833.8050507@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > As I've mentioned in other emails on this thread, lcStackbrowser gives > users the flexibility to organize properties into groups. I do this by > displaying a list of all the properties for a particular object type, from > which users can drag and drop their chosen properties into a group list. I > get that list from the keys of the properties array for the template for > whatever type of object I'm dealing with, but with this change, the list > was suddenly incomplete. > > As an example, the height and width properties are no longer included. > Their values can be derived from the rectangle property which is fine if > you want to recreate an object or use their values for some other reason > but I need their names, not their values. > > I ended up writing a handler that goes through the propertynames list and > tries to set each one into each of the object templates to determine which > object types it applies to, a time consuming process that really shouldn't > be necessary. Personally I feel your approach is quite suitable. The properties function returns the things needed to reproduce an object. It's not designed to replace the Dictionary, nor encumbered with a responsibility to make crafting IDE tools a one-liner. Toolmaking requires writing code. Any of us making tools - you, me, LC Ltd. - wrote some code to take care of what we need and moved on to other tasks. Seems a good balance of effort on all sides. > That's all water under the bridge now but I still don't understand why the > contents of the properties property were changed. What specifically was the change, and in what version? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From colinholgate at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 13:33:20 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:33:20 -0400 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <5617F780.7070002@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <54744DA9-F329-455D-A2E9-90BA2094A53E@gmail.com> <5617F780.7070002@gmail.com> Message-ID: Click on the star and you can choose from a long list of built in images. The dollar sign looking one is near the bottom. Failing that, you can open an SVG file in a text editor, and copy the path data part, to paste into the iconPath field in LiveCode. Now, they should add a Source option, which could do the retrieving of the path data for you. That would be handy. > On Oct 9, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Richmond wrote: > > On 09/10/15 20:08, Colin Holgate wrote: >> My guess is that it?s because it might have been a goal in the Kickstarter campaign. That may be why they added the SVG Widget. You should try it. > Well, I did and could not for the life of me work out how it worked. > > I ended up with what looked like a Communist star, and no indication how I could import, for the sake of argument, > a dollar sign in .svg format. > > Richmond. > >> >>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Richmond wrote: >>> >>> Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as vector graphics >>> was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 13:46:31 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:46:31 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 6:53 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > When I get repeated crashes when saving, I try opening livecode, turning > off messages, saving, making a small number of changes, and saving again, > which usually gets me there. OK, scratch that. I just turned off messages, saved, and it bombed while saving. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From paul at livecode.org Fri Oct 9 13:49:31 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:49:31 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: The same just happened to me this morning, nothing to do with messages, but I didn?t save the crash report at the time, I can see if I can find it, do you have a bug report for this problem? Paul > On 9 Oct 2015, at 10:46, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 6:53 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > >> When I get repeated crashes when saving, I try opening livecode, turning >> off messages, saving, making a small number of changes, and saving again, >> which usually gets me there. > > > OK, scratch that. > > I just turned off messages, saved, and it bombed while saving. > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Oct 9 13:45:35 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:45:35 +0100 Subject: Documentation/sample projects for iOS externals Message-ID: <5617FD3F.6090305@cogapp.com> I'm sure this ought to be simple, but I cannot find a thing. Having now for the first time in several years succesfully built a hello-world stack app and got it onto my phone (lining up the correct versions of LiveCode/Xcode/OS X/iOS/certificates - phew!); I'd now like to make an iOS external in order to achieve my actual aim. I know it can be done. I can even find references to sample projects called things like "rreSockets" and "rreCanvas". But an actual thing I cannot find. Searching livecode.com finds only references in the forums. In the "Building Externals/Plugins forum" there is a recent post asking the same thing; which met with a reply linking to another post; which links to some newsletter articles using Revolution 2.7. A post 18 months ago from someone who has evidently found the sample "rreHardcopy" but is having trouble building it, is met with a reply > I guess you have read at least those 2 lessons from runrev? > > http://livecode.com/developers/guides/mobile/ios/ > > http://livecode.com/developers/guides/externals/ but both of those links now redirect to a generic documentation page. Do any current sample projects exist? Is there any documentation available which is relevant for current versions of LiveCode and XCode? Where are either of these things to be found? TIA, B From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Oct 9 13:53:29 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:53:29 -0400 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: References: <5617F5AA.5000309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7A4B2B5D-DC69-47A6-8C87-1E9FA14D7472@all-auctions.com> Hi again, 1. RunRev can overcome the 30% take by marking the product up by the percentage income one would lose to the Apple App Store, thus maintaining the income required. 2. Incremental updates don?t have to be updated in the App Store as frequently as it?s done through RunRev. Perhaps only major versions for example going from LC 6 to LC 7 to LC 8 to LC 9 etc. (That would certainly cut down on the amount of work.) 3. At the very least the Free Community Version of LiveCode should appear in the Apple App Store if anything just to increase public awareness of LiveCode. 4. Just because other languages or competitors may not be found in the Apple App Store or other App Stores doesn?t mean that RunRev should completely ignore those potential markets. (This could be something the competition is doing wrong, so it might be important to not follow their lead.) 5. XCode is in the App Store and it?s doing great for obvious reasons! (LOL) Let a thousand marketing ideas bloom. Thanks for the discussion! Rick From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 9 13:54:18 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:54:18 -0700 Subject: LiveCode is not in the Apple App Store! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5617FF4A.2070807@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Roger Eller wrote: >> >>> LiveCode devs are encouraged to use the app store, even at a 30% >>> loss, so why not the mothership herself? >> >> >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> > > I see that "loop forever" you tried to put me in, Richard. That's not > nice. ;-) Not my intention. Sorry if it seemed that way. I just saw that you'd quoted only one of several reasons I'd outlined in my post about why LC isn't in Apple's app store, and rather than restate them it seems more expedient to just provide a pointer to the full post. > Ok, forget Apple for a minute. Try the same conversation, but > dealing with Ubuntu repositories. There's plenty of dev software > in that app store. MaxV raised that question in the forums, and then went further to actually build a .deb package: As an Ubuntu user and contributer I like the idea, but as someone familiar with LiveCode I have a few reservations at this time: First, LiveCode itself isn't quite up to par with the other great software available for Ubuntu. Long before a new user discovers the bugs we've been logging (with some great work done on them, but much remains), they'll see that it fits in less gracefully with Ubuntu's Unity UI than it does even on OS X (UI papercuts have been noted here before for all platforms). Once the UX is made as graceful as it can be I look forward to sharing LC with all my Linux friends. Second, some aspects of application packaging in Linux are relatively cumbersome compared to OS X and Windows, as least as far as self-contained apps like LiveCode go because such things have historically been rare on that platform. The .deb format and the apt-get that work with it are wonderful for what they were designed to do, but that was years ago. Today we should expect minimal dependencies and a streamlined process for creating and managing Ubuntu PPAs. Big strides have been made in that area (David Planella and many others who've contributed to Ubuntu's PPA and Software Center packaging have been true heroes), but there's ultimately a very big difference between system components and end-user apps, and the Linux world needs to migrate to a more self-contained model. Not having done so yet is one of the reasons so many wonderful apps like OwnCloud Client, BlueGriffon, and others are popular on Ubuntu but not in the Software Center. Those projects have limited resources, and maintaining a PPA for Ubuntu while also delivering to other platforms was a bit much for them. Those projects provide their own repositories which can be added to apt-get for automated updates, but not using Ubuntu's PPAs they don't appear in the Ubuntu Software Center. To address this and other needs, Ubuntu is migrating to Snappy packages, which encourage self-contained apps with minimal dependencies, the sort of things we LiveCoders build every day and more similar to how consumers conceptualize app management in OS X and Windows. Snappy packages also lend themselves better to multi-device deployments, better supporting Ubuntu's convergence strategy (a second Ubuntu phone launched just a couple weeks ago). Once Snappy is supported in the Ubuntu Software Center, and the LiveCode experience made as marvelous on Linux as we know it can be, we'll be in a good place to put the two together. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Fri Oct 9 13:57:56 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:57:56 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5617F833.8050507@fourthworld.com> References: <5617F833.8050507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > What specifically was the change, and in what version? The change was that not all properties are returned. I believe it was in v 6.1. As I said in my previous post, it's water under the bridge for me now and I have, as you mentioned, moved on to other tasks. My original post on this was simply to point out to the team that if they plan to provide a feature to allow flexible grouping of properties, they should be aware of this issue if they plan to rely on the properties property. My last post was simply in response to your request to elaborate. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From paul at livecode.org Fri Oct 9 14:09:12 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:09:12 -0700 Subject: Building for iOS - which LiveCode with which Xcode? (with which iOS?) In-Reply-To: <5617F1D9.5090700@cogapp.com> References: <5617E201.7000309@cogapp.com> <5617F1D9.5090700@cogapp.com> Message-ID: I think the correct link is? https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ ?then just click on the question there, it?s more readable. Paul > On 9 Oct 2015, at 09:56, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > OMG I've found it! Weirdly greyed out... > > https://livecode.com/support/ask-a-question/what-iosxcode-version-matches-which-version-of-livecode/ > > > On 09/10/2015 16:49, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> Is there by any chance, or could there be, a table showing versions of >> LiveCode will work with which versions of XCode (and build for which version >> of iOS)? >> >> I see messages flow by that LC x.y is having a problem with Xcode a.b, and >> sometimes an answer that you should use XCode c.d instead (or LC p.q)... but >> it's frustrating trying to fish in these pools (the lists, the forums) to >> figure out these combinations (and mostly one just pulls out known-not-working >> combinations). >> >> Failing a full on table - it would be helpful to just have any reports of >> known-working combinations. I.e. can anyone report "I am currently >> succesfully using LC x with XCode y and building for iOS z"? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Oct 9 14:15:11 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 19:15:11 +0100 Subject: Building for iOS - which LiveCode with which Xcode? (with which iOS?) In-Reply-To: References: <5617E201.7000309@cogapp.com> <5617F1D9.5090700@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <5618042F.5060500@cogapp.com> Aha! Thanks Paul. Ben On 09/10/2015 19:09, Paul Hibbert wrote: > I think the correct link is? > > https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ > > ?then just click on the question there, it?s more readable. > > Paul > > >> On 9 Oct 2015, at 09:56, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> >> OMG I've found it! Weirdly greyed out... >> >> https://livecode.com/support/ask-a-question/what-iosxcode-version-matches-which-version-of-livecode/ >> >> >> On 09/10/2015 16:49, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >>> Is there by any chance, or could there be, a table showing versions of >>> LiveCode will work with which versions of XCode (and build for which version >>> of iOS)? >>> >>> I see messages flow by that LC x.y is having a problem with Xcode a.b, and >>> sometimes an answer that you should use XCode c.d instead (or LC p.q)... but >>> it's frustrating trying to fish in these pools (the lists, the forums) to >>> figure out these combinations (and mostly one just pulls out known-not-working >>> combinations). >>> >>> Failing a full on table - it would be helpful to just have any reports of >>> known-working combinations. I.e. can anyone report "I am currently >>> succesfully using LC x with XCode y and building for iOS z"? >>> >>> TIA, >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >>> preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Oct 9 14:23:01 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:23:01 -0400 Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> References: <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <1504dd784df-714a-33671@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> Tiemo. OK, I read "show the user the full content of the text lines..." as all lines, not just the one that is "current" within the opened combo. Anyway, it appears that no messages at all are sent while the mouse is down and the comboBox is "open". No mouseMove, no mousStillDown. Nada. So I am with Bob on this to an extent, in that another control is needed if you want to keep the combo as a desirable object on screen. Try this. Make a combo and a list field. In the card script: on mouseMove if the mouseLoc is within the rect of btn 1 or the mouseLoc is within the rect of fld 1 then put btn 1 into fld 1 show fld 1 else hide fld 1 end mouseMove Now this needs a bit of work, but maybe it is a start? Craig -----Original Message----- From: Tiemo Hollmann TB To: 'How to use LiveCode' Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 9:53 am Subject: AW: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? Hi Craig, I don't want to display the full text of the option button, but only one line of the text while hovering the text (or right click buttonDown on a single line), so that the user can see, what he would choose, if he clicks any line. I think my problem is that "the hilitedline" works only with fields and not with the text of an option button, as far as I see it. Thank you Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von dunbarx at aol.com Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2015 15:00 An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Betreff: Re: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? Why not set the toolTip to the text of the button? I don't know how large a display that would be, or whether that format would be tenable. You could always use the "mouseWithin" message to display a field, offset a bit from the combo. and display the text of the button. At least you can control the properties of the field. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Tiemo Hollmann TB To: LiveCode User Liste senden Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 8:50 am Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? Hello, I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? Thanks Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Oct 9 14:23:05 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:23:05 -0500 Subject: AW: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> <1504cafd173-714a-324d7@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> <007c01d10299$8a810c60$9f832520$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <56180609.9040502@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/9/2015 8:51 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > I don't want to display the full text of the option button, but only one > line of the text while hovering the text (or right click buttonDown on a > single line), so that the user can see, what he would choose, if he clicks > any line. On Mac, the menu expands to fit long text when the option button pops down. You don't have to do anything. If it doesn't do that on Windows, the only thing I can think of is to make the button as wide as the longest text on mouseDown, and when the menu closes (in menuPick and mouseRelease,) set the width back to the original size. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Oct 9 14:23:58 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:23:58 -0500 Subject: Building for iOS - which LiveCode with which Xcode? (with which iOS?) In-Reply-To: <5617E201.7000309@cogapp.com> References: <5617E201.7000309@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <5618063E.7000504@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/9/2015 10:49 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Is there by any chance, or could there be, a table showing versions of > LiveCode will work with which versions of XCode (and build for which > version of iOS)? That would be very handy. I get lost trying to keep track. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 9 14:27:36 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:27:36 -0700 Subject: AW: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <56180609.9040502@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56180609.9040502@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <56180718.1020807@fourthworld.com> J. Landman Gay wrote: > If it doesn't do that on Windows, the only thing I can think of is > to make the button as wide as the longest text on mouseDown, and > when the menu closes (in menuPick and mouseRelease,) set the width > back to the original size. IIRC the Win HIG suggests making the button as wide as needed to display its longest item because it's a selector control, and the user should be able to see what they've selected. If it's not important to display what they selected a pulldown menu may suffice and give you complete control over its width. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Oct 9 14:30:48 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:30:48 -0500 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <561807D8.401@hyperactivesw.com> If you're on a Mac, crash reports are saved for quite a while in Console. On 10/9/2015 12:49 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > The same just happened to me this morning, nothing to do with > messages, but I didn?t save the crash report at the time, I can see > if I can find it, do you have a bug report for this problem? > > Paul > > >> On 9 Oct 2015, at 10:46, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> >> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 6:53 AM, Dr. Hawkins >> wrote: >> >>> When I get repeated crashes when saving, I try opening livecode, >>> turning off messages, saving, making a small number of changes, >>> and saving again, which usually gets me there. >> >> >> OK, scratch that. >> >> I just turned off messages, saved, and it bombed while saving. >> >> >> >> -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 >> _______________________________________________ use-livecode >> mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to >> subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing > list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to > subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 14:33:41 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 21:33:41 +0300 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <54744DA9-F329-455D-A2E9-90BA2094A53E@gmail.com> <5617F780.7070002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56180885.8050707@gmail.com> On 09/10/15 20:33, Colin Holgate wrote: > Click on the star and you can choose from a long list of built in images. The dollar sign looking one is near the bottom. > > Failing that, you can open an SVG file in a text editor, and copy the path data part, to paste into the iconPath field in LiveCode. > > Now, they should add a Source option, which could do the retrieving of the path data for you. That would be handy. I am probably expecting too much: I was expecting the ability to import an svg file to be present in the File / Import as Control / Image file menu item. And why, forbye, is that not the case? The way it is implemented is awkward, non-logical, and, frankly bloody-minded. R. > > >> On Oct 9, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> On 09/10/15 20:08, Colin Holgate wrote: >>> My guess is that it?s because it might have been a goal in the Kickstarter campaign. That may be why they added the SVG Widget. You should try it. >> Well, I did and could not for the life of me work out how it worked. >> >> I ended up with what looked like a Communist star, and no indication how I could import, for the sake of argument, >> a dollar sign in .svg format. >> >> Richmond. >> >>>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>> Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as vector graphics >>>> was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 9 14:41:42 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:41:42 -0400 Subject: Building for iOS - which LiveCode with which Xcode? (with which iOS?) In-Reply-To: <5618063E.7000504@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5617E201.7000309@cogapp.com> <5618063E.7000504@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 2:23 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/9/2015 10:49 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > >> Is there by any chance, or could there be, a table showing versions of >> LiveCode will work with which versions of XCode (and build for which >> version of iOS)? >> > > That would be very handy. I get lost trying to keep track. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > I wish there were a "check for dependencies" menu item in each version, and it would run a script which looks at your system, and lists everything with green checks or red X's, and also list supported outputs which are/would be available if the dependency were met. ~Roger From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Oct 9 14:41:44 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 20:41:44 +0200 Subject: Download does not work in standalone In-Reply-To: <5FB44968-97AF-4797-A0C2-DF6697DB1BB4@me.com> References: <71BC3B55-1299-4E31-8142-C2D9DF2BA685@me.com> <5FB44968-97AF-4797-A0C2-DF6697DB1BB4@me.com> Message-ID: <56180A68.3050700@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Tore, Probably you need to check that the script actually gets as far as the libUrlSetStatusCallback command. Insert a beep right before the command to check this. Second, to check that libUrl is available, you could add a try-control structure: try beep libUrlSetStatusCallback "showProgress",the long id of me libUrlDownloadToFile tResourcePath,tPath,"downloadComplete" catch myErr answer myErr end try Do you hear a beep and don't you get an error message? It seems obvious, but could you double-check that the address you're downloading from is correct put adding the line put tResourcePath to your script, copying the address from the message box and pasting it into the browser to see what happens? Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/9/2015 om 17:52 schreef Tore Nilsen: > Yes, at least I manually selected it in the standalone application settings, as my experiences with the CEF-library was that it would not be included automatically. But it seems as if the Internet library is not included in the build anyway. I have tried to reset it on several occasions. At best it seems to be downloading, but showProgress is not triggered, and the downloaded file is empty. > > I am on Indy 7.1 on OSX 10.11. > > Tore > >> 9. okt. 2015 kl. 17.47 skrev Mark Schonewille : >> >> Did you include the Internet library (is not the browser external) in your standalone, in de standalone application settings? >> >> -- >> Kind regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> Economy-x-Talk >> Http://economy-x-talk.com >> >> Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com >> >> >> Op 9 okt. 2015 om 13:41 heeft Tore Nilsen het volgende geschreven: >> >>> I am having trouble with this script in a standalone application for OSX. It works alright in the IDE, but will not work when a standalone is built. >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> hide group "DownloadInfo" >>> put gValgtLeksjon & ".pdf" into tFilNavn >>> ask file "Velg hvor du vil lagre filen:" with tFilnavn as sheet >>> if the result is not "Cancel" then >>> put it into tPath >>> if field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" is empty then >>> put gThisPage & "/pdf" into tResourcePath >>> else >>> put field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" into tResourcePath >>> end if >>> put "Laster ned fil: " & tFilnavn into field "DownloadInfo" >>> if char 1 to 4 of tResourcePath is not "http" then >>> answer tResourcePath & " er ikke en gyldig lenke!" with "Avbryt" >>> if it is "Avbryt" then >>> exit mouseUp >>> end if >>> end if >>> libURLSetStatusCallback "showProgress",the long ID of me >>> libURLDownloadToFile tResourcePath,tPath,"downloadComplete" >>> end if >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> I also had some problems with the CEF-browser, but choosing libraries manually in the standalone settings solved that problem. Somehow it seems as if the internet library is not included in the standalone files. >>> >>> I wonder if anyone has any solutions to this problem. >>> >>> Regards >>> Tore Nilsen >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tore.nilsen at me.com Fri Oct 9 14:48:43 2015 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 20:48:43 +0200 Subject: Download does not work in standalone In-Reply-To: <56180A68.3050700@economy-x-talk.com> References: <71BC3B55-1299-4E31-8142-C2D9DF2BA685@me.com> <5FB44968-97AF-4797-A0C2-DF6697DB1BB4@me.com> <56180A68.3050700@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the suggestions. I will try the ?try? approach. I guess from the fact that I get a proper download from the IDE, that the url is correct, but I will make provisions to make sure it is anyway. I had a couple of instances where the url, which is dynamic, depending on other choices the user makes, was not correct. This did also show up in the IDE. Thanks again. Tore > 9. okt. 2015 kl. 20.41 skrev Mark Schonewille : > > Hi Tore, > > Probably you need to check that the script actually gets as far as the libUrlSetStatusCallback command. Insert a beep right before the command to check this. > > Second, to check that libUrl is available, you could add a try-control structure: > > try > beep > libUrlSetStatusCallback "showProgress",the long id of me > libUrlDownloadToFile tResourcePath,tPath,"downloadComplete" > catch myErr > answer myErr > end try > > Do you hear a beep and don't you get an error message? > > It seems obvious, but could you double-check that the address you're downloading from is correct put adding the line > > put tResourcePath > > to your script, copying the address from the message box and pasting it into the browser to see what happens? > > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 10/9/2015 om 17:52 schreef Tore Nilsen: >> Yes, at least I manually selected it in the standalone application settings, as my experiences with the CEF-library was that it would not be included automatically. But it seems as if the Internet library is not included in the build anyway. I have tried to reset it on several occasions. At best it seems to be downloading, but showProgress is not triggered, and the downloaded file is empty. >> >> I am on Indy 7.1 on OSX 10.11. >> >> Tore >> >>> 9. okt. 2015 kl. 17.47 skrev Mark Schonewille : >>> >>> Did you include the Internet library (is not the browser external) in your standalone, in de standalone application settings? >>> >>> -- >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Mark Schonewille >>> Economy-x-Talk >>> Http://economy-x-talk.com >>> >>> Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com >>> >>> >>> Op 9 okt. 2015 om 13:41 heeft Tore Nilsen het volgende geschreven: >>> >>>> I am having trouble with this script in a standalone application for OSX. It works alright in the IDE, but will not work when a standalone is built. >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> hide group "DownloadInfo" >>>> put gValgtLeksjon & ".pdf" into tFilNavn >>>> ask file "Velg hvor du vil lagre filen:" with tFilnavn as sheet >>>> if the result is not "Cancel" then >>>> put it into tPath >>>> if field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" is empty then >>>> put gThisPage & "/pdf" into tResourcePath >>>> else >>>> put field "Ressurser" of card gValgtLeksjon of stack "Lessons" into tResourcePath >>>> end if >>>> put "Laster ned fil: " & tFilnavn into field "DownloadInfo" >>>> if char 1 to 4 of tResourcePath is not "http" then >>>> answer tResourcePath & " er ikke en gyldig lenke!" with "Avbryt" >>>> if it is "Avbryt" then >>>> exit mouseUp >>>> end if >>>> end if >>>> libURLSetStatusCallback "showProgress",the long ID of me >>>> libURLDownloadToFile tResourcePath,tPath,"downloadComplete" >>>> end if >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> I also had some problems with the CEF-browser, but choosing libraries manually in the standalone settings solved that problem. Somehow it seems as if the internet library is not included in the standalone files. >>>> >>>> I wonder if anyone has any solutions to this problem. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Tore Nilsen >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Oct 9 14:51:02 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:51:02 -0500 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5617F833.8050507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56180C96.7020409@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/9/2015 12:57 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > The change was that not all properties are returned. I believe it was in v > 6.1. That's odd, I thought it had always been the way it is now. I just checked with Rev 2.8.1 (Jan 2005) and it does not have "width" in the properties of an object. My test wasn't very comprehensive though.. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Oct 9 15:53:52 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 19:53:52 +0000 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <56180885.8050707@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <54744DA9-F329-455D-A2E9-90BA2094A53E@gmail.com> <5617F780.7070002@gmail.com> <56180885.8050707@gmail.com> Message-ID: That seems sensible. You could file an enhancement request ;-) To be honest it's more a case of "not everything has been done yet" than "we think you ought to do it this long-winded way". On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:33 PM Richmond wrote: > On 09/10/15 20:33, Colin Holgate wrote: > > Click on the star and you can choose from a long list of built in > images. The dollar sign looking one is near the bottom. > > > > Failing that, you can open an SVG file in a text editor, and copy the > path data part, to paste into the iconPath field in LiveCode. > > > > Now, they should add a Source option, which could do the retrieving of > the path data for you. That would be handy. > > I am probably expecting too much: I was expecting the ability to import > an svg file to be present in the > > File / Import as Control / Image file menu item. > > And why, forbye, is that not the case? The way it is implemented is > awkward, non-logical, and, frankly bloody-minded. > > R. > > > > > > >> On Oct 9, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> > >> On 09/10/15 20:08, Colin Holgate wrote: > >>> My guess is that it?s because it might have been a goal in the > Kickstarter campaign. That may be why they added the SVG Widget. You should > try it. > >> Well, I did and could not for the life of me work out how it worked. > >> > >> I ended up with what looked like a Communist star, and no indication > how I could import, for the sake of argument, > >> a dollar sign in .svg format. > >> > >> Richmond. > >> > >>>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as > vector graphics > >>>> was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Fri Oct 9 16:58:52 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:58:52 -0700 Subject: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <56182A8C.4000801@pdslabs.net> Hi Tiemo, On a Mac, the option button list is shown at the full width of the text it contains. I haven't tried it on other platforms. If it doesn't work that way on your platform, you could do something like this (in the button script): local sOriginalRect on menuPick pItemName restoreMe answer pItemName end menuPick on mouseDown if sOriginalRect is empty then put the rect of me into sOriginalRect put sOriginalRect into tRect put (item 1 of tRect + the formattedWidth of me) into item 3 of tRect set the rect of me to tRect end mouseDown on mouseLeave restoreMe end mouseLeave command restoreMe lock screen set the rect of me to sOriginalRect unlock screen end restoreMe Hope this helps - Phil Davis On 10/9/15 5:48 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button > itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout > restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. > > Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of > the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right > click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or > anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. > > Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Oct 9 17:14:00 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 08:14:00 +1100 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: <5617E29A.3080507@fourthworld.com> References: <5617E29A.3080507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 10 Oct 2015, at 2:51 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Github is simple - if what you're building is the Linux kernel, which is what it was designed for. ;) Actually the hardcore guys don?t use GitHub? they have a mailing list and pass around patch files which git can also generate. GitHub is just a web app built on git? A very helpful web app but there you go. There?s others like BitBucket, GitLab etc. You can also just put a bare repo somewhere you can access and use that as a remote without any web UI. Lots of possibilities. It?s really not all that complicated but it is well worth reading at least the first 3 chapters of the git book https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2 The basic idea of distributed SCM is everyone has the source but nobody has anybody's changes unless they get them. To get them you need to point your repo to theirs (remote) and pull (pull means fetch and merge). Branches sound complicated too but they aren?t. All they are is a pointer to a commit. There?s a file in the .git directory for each branch that just contains a reference to a commit (a 1 line sha1 hash) that?s it. Each commit also has a pointer to its parent commit and that?s how you end up with a tree. A merge is just a commit with both a mum and a dad ;-) Checkout is just making your file tree the same as it was at a particular commit. Remember branches are just pointers to commits. Cheers Monte From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 17:26:24 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:26:24 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > The same just happened to me this morning, nothing to do with messages, > but I didn?t save the crash report at the time, I can see if I can find it, > do you have a bug report for this problem? > No bug report; I don't have much to say at this point but "constantly crashing". I suspect that my stack and/or installation is corrupted in some unforeseen way. This is happing on two separate quad core machines,so I lean towards the stack It took an hour to rename three fields this morning . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 17:34:59 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:34:59 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > It took an hour to rename three fields this morning . . . > Also, I started frequently getting the message that "a stack revCursors is already in memory". This message now *always* happens if I turn messages off in livened before loading a stack. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 18:31:49 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 15:31:49 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Also, I started frequently getting the message that "a stack revCursors is > already in memory". This message now *always* happens if I turn messages > off in livened before loading a stack. > now filed as *Bug 16185* - near constant crashes in IDE (edit ) with a crash report, now that Jacqui mentioned them . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Oct 9 19:13:58 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:13:58 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials Message-ID: Folks: I just got the notice of a new series of learning materials from the mothership, for $75. These materials are derived from the Create-IT course for which I paid about $300. Since I got a year of Indy license, I figured it really cost me $30. Anyway, the CreateIt course was pretty buggy and as it progressed into lessons 4 and 5, I got fed up because the code examples they provided were buggy and it was taking me an inordinate amount of time on buggy stuff that I didn?t have time to deal with. The materials seemed to be put together without anybody proof-reading them or reviewing them for accuracy. Now there is a new course for $75, derived from Create-It materials, that I am offered. My question, to the mothership is: have the Create-It course materials been refined and corrected for bugs? I understand that all Indy licenses now have access to these materials. I can get by with this. I also support the mothership in trying to become sustainable. I think it?s a big challenge. However, the help tutorials on the support area are not too bad, but don?t go very far past the very basic. It seems to me that the docs and lessons ought to be put in REALLY good shape, before asking us for more money to access them. But, it the mothership goes under, we all suffer. I?m conflicted. We really need a dictionary focussed on specific tasks rather than specific commands. I think some of this may be in the works. I hope so. Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Oct 9 21:08:14 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:08:14 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Added comment: I said we need a dictionary focussed on tasks, not on commands, but obviously we need both. I know Richard has been leading a group taking this on. Richard, is this happening? Bill > On Oct 9, 2015, at 4:13 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > Folks: > I just got the notice of a new series of learning materials from the mothership, for $75. These materials are derived from the Create-IT course for which I paid about $300. Since I got a year of Indy license, I figured it really cost me $30. > > Anyway, the CreateIt course was pretty buggy and as it progressed into lessons 4 and 5, I got fed up because the code examples they provided were buggy and it was taking me an inordinate amount of time on buggy stuff that I didn?t have time to deal with. The materials seemed to be put together without anybody proof-reading them or reviewing them for accuracy. > > Now there is a new course for $75, derived from Create-It materials, that I am offered. > > My question, to the mothership is: have the Create-It course materials been refined and corrected for bugs? I understand that all Indy licenses now have access to these materials. I can get by with this. I also support the mothership in trying to become sustainable. I think it?s a big challenge. However, the help tutorials on the support area are not too bad, but don?t go very far past the very basic. It seems to me that the docs and lessons ought to be put in REALLY good shape, before asking us for more money to access them. > > But, it the mothership goes under, we all suffer. I?m conflicted. We really need a dictionary focussed on specific tasks rather than specific commands. I think some of this may be in the works. I hope so. > > Bill > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Fri Oct 9 21:25:16 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:25:16 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: I?ve added the crash log from my crash to your bug report, I suspect there may be a connection even though I was using LC8 at the time. Paul > On 9 Oct 2015, at 15:31, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > >> Also, I started frequently getting the message that "a stack revCursors is >> already in memory". This message now *always* happens if I turn messages >> off in livened before loading a stack. >> > > now filed as *Bug 16185* - > near constant crashes in IDE (edit > ) > with a crash report, now that Jacqui mentioned them . . . > > > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Fri Oct 9 21:26:09 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:26:09 -0700 Subject: the constant crashing of the IDE In-Reply-To: <561807D8.401@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1504a899716-4907-32b82@webprd-a25.mail.aol.com> <561807D8.401@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <13E7AE8F-7516-4A72-86B2-989B3CFF1278@livecode.org> > On 9 Oct 2015, at 11:30, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > If you're on a Mac, crash reports are saved for quite a while in Console. Thank you Jacque, it was still in there. Paul From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Oct 9 21:44:17 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 20:44:17 -0500 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile Message-ID: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> I am using "showAll" fullscreenmode for a mobile stack that uses large background images so that the entire screen will have content when the device is larger than the development stack. For example, the normal stack in the IDE is 414 pixels wide. On the iPhone simulator, there are perhaps 20-30 pixels outside that boundary on the edges. When I tap on those edge areas outside the "normal" stack boundary, no mouse messages are sent. I need to detect user clicks anywhere on the screen. I tried "noBorder" with the same results. Any suggestions? Given the current layout, letterbox won't work. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From james at thehales.id.au Fri Oct 9 22:36:58 2015 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 13:36:58 +1100 Subject: Learning Materials Message-ID: <2E3179B9-2DC9-4BD2-B0D4-38E40A0F36BB@thehales.id.au> I honestly am not sure what LC are thinking or where they get their marketing advice but I am failing to see a positive in this unless you are completely new to the platform. Why? Simply because if what has happened with the create-it course is indicative of how LC does things one has to be concerned. As has been mentioned, the create-it course is both incomplete and buggy. Yet it was announced with much fanfare and figured prominently on the site. It is now even offered to all. Well that is obviously a problem now. "Here, you get free access to a buggy incomplete course which will...well get you started, but if you really want something good, buy this new improved (but untested) course for $75!" Why would anyone think this new, improved course will be any different? Talk about parading one's failures. Wouldn't it have been better to get the create-it course right and perhaps offer a more advanced course? I think anyone who actually paid for the create-it course would be feeling a bit p*ssed off. James From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Oct 9 22:49:56 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 22:49:56 -0400 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: References: <5617E29A.3080507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: So checkout is the same as syncing? It's the details that make any system more difficult. For instance, when you want to merge a change into the main, you do a pull, even though from your perspective you're pushing. In the case of LC, you have to pull the entire project, even if all you're really interested in is one piece of it. You fork a project even if you're not really doing anything to it. It would seem that you aren't really forking anything until you make a change to it, but you have a fork nonetheless. The graphs just make it look even worse. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it, but every time I look at it, I just want to say "screw it, here's a bug report with the code I tweaked". On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 5:14 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 10 Oct 2015, at 2:51 am, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > > Github is simple - if what you're building is the Linux kernel, which is > what it was designed for. ;) > > Actually the hardcore guys don?t use GitHub? they have a mailing list and > pass around patch files which git can also generate. GitHub is just a web > app built on git? A very helpful web app but there you go. There?s others > like BitBucket, GitLab etc. You can also just put a bare repo somewhere you > can access and use that as a remote without any web UI. Lots of > possibilities. > > It?s really not all that complicated but it is well worth reading at least > the first 3 chapters of the git book https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2 < > https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2> > > The basic idea of distributed SCM is everyone has the source but nobody > has anybody's changes unless they get them. To get them you need to point > your repo to theirs (remote) and pull (pull means fetch and merge). > > Branches sound complicated too but they aren?t. All they are is a pointer > to a commit. There?s a file in the .git directory for each branch that just > contains a reference to a commit (a 1 line sha1 hash) that?s it. Each > commit also has a pointer to its parent commit and that?s how you end up > with a tree. A merge is just a commit with both a mum and a dad ;-) > > Checkout is just making your file tree the same as it was at a particular > commit. Remember branches are just pointers to commits. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Oct 9 23:56:56 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:56:56 +1100 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: References: <5617E29A.3080507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > So checkout is the same as syncing? Hmm? checkout is just getting setting the state of all the files in the repo to the state they were in when you committed. It?s a local operation. > It's the details that make any system more difficult. For instance, when > you want to merge a change into the main, you do a pull, even though from > your perspective you're pushing. How are you pushing? Push is upload to server while pull & fetch are downloading. As I said before pull is just fetch and merge combined into one command for convenience. Fetch just downloads any commits and branch references you don?t have locally. > In the case of LC, you have to pull the > entire project, even if all you're really interested in is one piece of > it. Once you have cloned the repo when you pull you just get updates not everything again. > You fork a project even if you're not really doing anything to it. It > would seem that you aren't really forking anything until you make a change > to it, but you have a fork nonetheless. The graphs just make it look even > worse. You don?t have to do that. You could just clone their repo instead of forking on github and cloning your fork if you don?t want to contribute anything? > > I'm sure I'll get the hang of it, but every time I look at it, I just want > to say "screw it, here's a bug report with the code I tweaked". Read those first three chapters of the git book I recommended and it will become much clearer. Cheers Monte From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 10 01:57:13 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 22:57:13 -0700 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: References: <5617E29A.3080507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5618A8B9.3070809@ahsoftware.net> On 10/09/2015 07:49 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > It's the details that make any system more difficult. For instance, when > you want to merge a change into the main, you do a pull, even though from > your perspective you're pushing. No, it's just better to pull before pushing. That way if anyone has pushed anything to the common repository before your latest pull from it, you have a chance to get the latest changes locally, make sure there aren't any conflicts, and only then is it safe to push your changes up. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 10 02:17:32 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:17:32 +1100 Subject: Forking Versions In-Reply-To: <5618A8B9.3070809@ahsoftware.net> References: <5617E29A.3080507@fourthworld.com> <5618A8B9.3070809@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <2FD79AFD-9BA9-4085-BEB2-14059D3DF5BE@sweattechnologies.com> git will throw an error if you try to push and your commits aren't ancestors of the head of the branch you are pushing. You can get around this by force pushing but don't do that... Nasty... I don't even know why git allows it. Sent from my iPhone > On 10 Oct 2015, at 4:57 pm, Mark Wieder wrote: > > That way if anyone has pushed anything to the common repository before your latest pull from it, you have a chance to get the latest changes locally, make sure there aren't any conflicts, and only then is it safe to push your changes up. From steven.crighton at livecode.com Sat Oct 10 07:23:54 2015 From: steven.crighton at livecode.com (Steven Crighton) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:23:54 +0100 Subject: Learning Materials Message-ID: <00c301d1034e$25f942c0$71ebc840$@livecode.com> Thanks for your messages on the new learning course. We are constantly working on improving our learning materials. Create it V1 was a good start but as you pointed out it did come with some issues. With this version we have decided to focus our efforts by creating a course with less apps but greater content and strengthened resources. We have rewritten the code, added more learning outcomes, filmed new videos and created brand new slides. Unlike the original Create it course this new course is available without the need for a paid license subscription. Everyone who was part of Create it V1 will receive this course in their account at some point next week with no extra charge. Thanks Steven Crighton From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 10:58:13 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 07:58:13 -0700 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? Message-ID: Most of what I generate is forms, so keeping track of fields is easy and natural. I am now getting to motions, which will use data much like mail-merge in a word processor. So I might use something like Debtor ##dname## filed this petition on ##petdate## to generate Debtor John Doe filed this petition on 1/15/2015 For short things, it would be easy enough on rendering output to watch for words starting with ## and place the data field over the word, either on first render or possibly on the fly with mouseMove. This won't work "well" for a phrase, though, which can wrap. But if I could do something on initial render like put getVal("thePhrase") into theVa replace word i of tgField with theVal set the theProp of word i to i + the number of words in theVal -1 to "thePhrase" things would be fairly straightforward to monitor. I need to monitor, as that data changes, it needs o go back into the database -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From prothero at earthednet.org Sat Oct 10 10:59:11 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 07:59:11 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <00c301d1034e$25f942c0$71ebc840$@livecode.com> References: <00c301d1034e$25f942c0$71ebc840$@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4E3CA010-0326-4479-97EB-597B48A096D0@earthednet.org> Steven, Thank you. That seems quite fair. Regards, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Oct 10, 2015, at 4:23 AM, "Steven Crighton" wrote: > > Thanks for your messages on the new learning course. > > We are constantly working on improving our learning materials. Create it V1 > was a good start but as you pointed out it did come with some issues. > > With this version we have decided to focus our efforts by creating a course > with less apps but greater content and strengthened resources. > > We have rewritten the code, added more learning outcomes, filmed new videos > and created brand new slides. > > Unlike the original Create it course this new course is available without > the need for a paid license subscription. > > Everyone who was part of Create it V1 will receive this course in their > account at some point next week with no extra charge. > > Thanks > > Steven Crighton > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 11:19:34 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 08:19:34 -0700 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It has also occurred to me to wrap in an html tag or some such to do this. On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Most of what I generate is forms, so keeping track of fields is easy and > natural. > > I am now getting to motions, which will use data much like mail-merge in a > word processor. So I might use something like > > Debtor ##dname## filed this petition on ##petdate## > > > to generate > > > Debtor John Doe filed this petition on 1/15/2015 > > > > For short things, it would be easy enough on rendering output to watch for > words starting with ## and place the data field over the word, either on > first render or possibly on the fly with mouseMove. > > This won't work "well" for a phrase, though, which can wrap. > > > But if I could do something on initial render like > > put getVal("thePhrase") into theVa > > replace word i of tgField with theVal > > set the theProp of word i to i + the number of words in theVal -1 to > "thePhrase" > > > things would be fairly straightforward to monitor. > > I need to monitor, as that data changes, it needs o go back into the > database > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 10 11:21:58 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:21:58 -0500 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25C34F2F-C9D1-4386-90DC-798B385913DC@hyperactivesw.com> On October 10, 2015 9:58:13 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: > >I am now getting to motions, which will use data much like mail-merge >in a >word processor. So I might use something like > >Debtor ##dname## filed this petition on ##petdate## > > >to generate > > >Debtor John Doe filed this petition on 1/15/2015 > > > >For short things, it would be easy enough on rendering output to watch >for >words starting with ## and place the data field over the word, either >on >first render or possibly on the fly with mouseMove. > >This won't work "well" for a phrase, though, which can wrap. This sounds like a job for the merge command. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 11:28:51 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 08:28:51 -0700 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? In-Reply-To: <25C34F2F-C9D1-4386-90DC-798B385913DC@hyperactivesw.com> References: <25C34F2F-C9D1-4386-90DC-798B385913DC@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 8:21 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > This sounds like a job for the merge command. > > thanks,but that's a one-way trip. If the user changes something, I need to know which piece, as it shows up elsewhere. (And, potentially the user could change the base text, too, which would need to be save!) I need to have wa way to keep a handle on the source of the changed word. From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 12:10:09 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1444493409223-4697170.post@n4.nabble.com> I'm still seeing an issue with plugins in LC8 DP7, specifically the options as to when a plugin should load. If I change the setting from "Livecode starts up" to "Chosen from plugins menu", quit and restart, the plugin still loads at startup. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-tp4696964p4697170.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From paul at livecode.org Sat Oct 10 13:13:45 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:13:45 -0700 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: <1444493409223-4697170.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444493409223-4697170.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <13838643-9863-48C1-A366-19FFC0EADB68@livecode.org> Same here on El Capitan, do you have a bug report number? I can add to it, or I can create one if you wish? Paul > On 10 Oct 2015, at 09:10, Peter Haworth wrote: > > I'm still seeing an issue with plugins in LC8 DP7, specifically the options > as to when a plugin should load. If I change the setting from "Livecode > starts up" to "Chosen from plugins menu", quit and restart, the plugin still > loads at startup. > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-tp4696964p4697170.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 13:19:52 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:19:52 -0700 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: <13838643-9863-48C1-A366-19FFC0EADB68@livecode.org> References: <1444493409223-4697170.post@n4.nabble.com> <13838643-9863-48C1-A366-19FFC0EADB68@livecode.org> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Didn't create a bug report since there was a not from Ali a few days ago that this was a known issue and should be fixed in DP6. If I could find it, I'd update it :-) Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > Same here on El Capitan, do you have a bug report number? I can add to it, > or I can create one if you wish? > > Paul > > > On 10 Oct 2015, at 09:10, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > I'm still seeing an issue with plugins in LC8 DP7, specifically the > options > > as to when a plugin should load. If I change the setting from "Livecode > > starts up" to "Chosen from plugins menu", quit and restart, the plugin > still > > loads at startup. > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-tp4696964p4697170.html > > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dvglasgow at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 13:35:01 2015 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:35:01 +0100 Subject: Paths in Mac standalone headache In-Reply-To: <56132970.6080609@fourthworld.com> References: <56132970.6080609@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:52 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > when the culprit was simply a defaultFolder assignment that didn't take. Thanks. Helpful scripts both. I think it *is* simply a folder assignment that doesn?t take. Not the default folder, but the path to the results which I temporarily switch to. So, Richard, once you had identified the culprit in your directory walker script, what did you do? Best wishes, David G From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 13:52:15 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:52:15 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions Message-ID: It appears that the files that define the widgets supplied with LC are kept in Contents/Tools/Extensions folder of the application bundle (on a Mac), with each widget having its own folder named com.livecode.extensions.livecode.. Are widgets created by users kept in the same place? There's a file in each folder named manifest.xml that describes the widget including its properties. For example, the clock widget appears to have a Timezone property and an IsDay property. However, when I open the Property Inspector for a clock widget, I don't see an IsDay property. I think this is because IsDay looks like it is read only? Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From theresap72 at aol.com Sat Oct 10 14:03:25 2015 From: theresap72 at aol.com (Theresa) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:03:25 -0400 Subject: help changing the From address when sending email Message-ID: <15052ebef97-4caa-3633c@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> I'm creating an app that needs to send an email to the user. I've gone through the lesson about sending email through LiveCode Server here http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4070/l/8184-sending-emails-from-livecode-server-scripts and I get the email to send but no matter what I seem to do, I can't get the "from" address to be anything but my server account email. Is there something I'm missing? I've tried it using a variable and also just putting a straight email address in but I can't get it to change. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 10 14:16:54 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:16:54 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> On 10/10/2015 10:52 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > It appears that the files that define the widgets supplied with LC are kept > in Contents/Tools/Extensions folder of the application bundle (on a Mac), > with each widget having its own folder named > com.livecode.extensions.livecode.. Are widgets created by > users kept in the same place? No, user widgets are in the Extensions folder at the same level as the user Plugins folder. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 14:49:35 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:49:35 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Thanks Mark. Do you happen to know if there are any handlers which return these paths or even the information about each widget from its manifest.xml file? It's easy enough to go through all the files myself and parse the xml myself but probably safer to use official handlers if they exist. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/10/2015 10:52 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> It appears that the files that define the widgets supplied with LC are >> kept >> in Contents/Tools/Extensions folder of the application bundle (on a Mac), >> with each widget having its own folder named >> com.livecode.extensions.livecode.. Are widgets created by >> users kept in the same place? >> > > No, user widgets are in the Extensions folder at the same level as the > user Plugins folder. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 10 15:07:19 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:07:19 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <56172521.8060706@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <561961E7.4070405@ahsoftware.net> On 10/09/2015 12:35 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > There are two separate issues here: > 1) Our out-of-the-box palettes should be as useful as possible for someone > with no plugins. Hence the soliciting of opinion. Disagree? I'm happy for a > million application browsers to exist, I just don't want to maintain them. Heh. > I can't understand how you're viewing the idea of seeking to improve the > IDE's palettes as somehow a negative. > > 2) Making it possible to replace the palettes. Gradually the IDE routes all > palette-related opening through a revIDEPaletteToStackName function. So > once everything goes through that, and we provide a hook to override it, > you will be able to use any stack in place of a given palette. > > Moreover the better the data provision for *our* palettes, the more useful > IDE functions there are for replacement palettes to use. Whatever we add to > a given object's inspector properties, for example, is parsed into the > properties array that the IDE library passes to the inspector. > > Should a user plugin wish to use that array, adding the tooltip fixes it > for them too. Adding tooltip to the old inspector helps no-one in this > particular regard, as far as I can see. Thanks for the background information. This is indeed promising for the future. But we have reached the point where LC8 is no longer "LC7 with widgets"... there's a serious divide here. So while I can play around with LC8 and try to figure out the new gadgety things that are being thrown our way, in order to get any work done I'm using tools that will soon be end-of-lifed. I'm no fan of the current property inspector. Or the application browser, for that matter. But right now they allow me to get work done. So I'm a bit dismayed that rather than fixing/improving these tools, they've just been replaced wholesale, and judging by the controversy this has raised it appears I'm not alone. I'm sure I'll get used to the new tools in time, although I've been able to avoid the Project Browser in all versions up to the latest. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From paul at livecode.org Sat Oct 10 15:20:06 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:20:06 -0700 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: References: <1444493409223-4697170.post@n4.nabble.com> <13838643-9863-48C1-A366-19FFC0EADB68@livecode.org> Message-ID: <16FF4A17-7578-4C79-83DD-DF354225CA75@livecode.org> Pete, I think I've tracked down the 2 bugs causing this issue in the IDE, it?s an easy fix as far as I can see, so I posted a bug report with my findings and the recipe for fixing it, that way the LC team can check my findings and hopefully fix the problem quickly. Bug Report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16187 If you want to follow the recipe for the fix, please do so at your own risk, I?m no expert at editing the IDE! :-) Regards, Paul > On 10 Oct 2015, at 10:19, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Hi Paul, > Didn't create a bug report since there was a not from Ali a few days ago > that this was a known issue and should be fixed in DP6. If I could find > it, I'd update it :-) > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > >> Same here on El Capitan, do you have a bug report number? I can add to it, >> or I can create one if you wish? >> >> Paul >> >>> On 10 Oct 2015, at 09:10, Peter Haworth wrote: >>> >>> I'm still seeing an issue with plugins in LC8 DP7, specifically the >> options >>> as to when a plugin should load. If I change the setting from "Livecode >>> starts up" to "Chosen from plugins menu", quit and restart, the plugin >> still >>> loads at startup. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-tp4696964p4697170.html >>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 15:27:26 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:27:26 -0700 Subject: LC8 In-Reply-To: <16FF4A17-7578-4C79-83DD-DF354225CA75@livecode.org> References: <1444493409223-4697170.post@n4.nabble.com> <13838643-9863-48C1-A366-19FFC0EADB68@livecode.org> <16FF4A17-7578-4C79-83DD-DF354225CA75@livecode.org> Message-ID: Great, thanks Paul. Pete Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > Pete, > > I think I've tracked down the 2 bugs causing this issue in the IDE, it?s > an easy fix as far as I can see, so I posted a bug report with my findings > and the recipe for fixing it, that way the LC team can check my findings > and hopefully fix the problem quickly. > > Bug Report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16187 < > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16187> > > If you want to follow the recipe for the fix, please do so at your own > risk, I?m no expert at editing the IDE! :-) > > Regards, > > Paul > > > On 10 Oct 2015, at 10:19, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > Hi Paul, > > Didn't create a bug report since there was a not from Ali a few days ago > > that this was a known issue and should be fixed in DP6. If I could find > > it, I'd update it :-) > > > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Paul Hibbert > wrote: > > > >> Same here on El Capitan, do you have a bug report number? I can add to > it, > >> or I can create one if you wish? > >> > >> Paul > >> > >>> On 10 Oct 2015, at 09:10, Peter Haworth wrote: > >>> > >>> I'm still seeing an issue with plugins in LC8 DP7, specifically the > >> options > >>> as to when a plugin should load. If I change the setting from > "Livecode > >>> starts up" to "Chosen from plugins menu", quit and restart, the plugin > >> still > >>> loads at startup. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> View this message in context: > >> > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-tp4696964p4697170.html > >>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 10 15:28:43 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:28:43 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > I said we need a dictionary focussed on tasks, not on commands, > but obviously we need both. I know Richard has been leading a > group taking this on. Richard, is this happening? The focus of an API reference like the LiveCode Dictionary will always have the language tokens as their primary index. This can (and arguably should) be augmented with tags to support searching for strings conceptually related but not found in the token itself or its description. I believe that's been put into place for the future, but regrettably not available in the current shipping product v7. Task-driven documentation is traditionally the domain of things like "Cookbooks". That format allows for the exploration of related concepts in a more detailed way that would be clumsy or even distracting in a Dictionary. IIRC LiveCode 1.0 had Cookbook, but I'm not sure when it was dropped. To answer your question about the Community Documentation Team, over the last year the core team at LiveCode Ltd. has been migrating all documentation content into Github markdown so that it can not only be more easily edited but also reviewed, merged, and compiled into the product build more easily as well. Peter Brett at LiveCode Ltd. has taken on the role of stewarding community engagement projects like this one, and the process of migrating the content to markdown is now far enough along that my next meeting with Dr. Brett will focus on conveying the dynamics of the workflow so we can get to work. The scope defined for the moment, however, is to update existing docs. If there's a desire for a Cookbook I would encourage the community to consider establishing a wiki for that. Indeed, there is one at wikia.com which may be a good starting point: To help guide such an effort, let me ask you a question related to the CreateIt course you mentioned: You've been using LiveCode for many years, and have made some substantial software with it. At this point in your work, what topics would you find most valuable? -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 10 15:36:46 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:36:46 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> On 10/10/2015 11:49 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Thanks Mark. Do you happen to know if there are any handlers which return > these paths or even the information about each widget from its manifest.xml > file? It's easy enough to go through all the files myself and parse the > xml myself but probably safer to use official handlers if they exist. I had similar questions yesterday: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=25530 I'm currently parsing the xml myself since I've already created the xml tree by the time I need the info, but I'm using the technique in the revIDEExtensionsFetchMetadata() function to get the metadata. That way I avoid the overhead of creating the xml tree again, but I will probably switch to doing that now that I've gotten the word that it's officially condoned. Here's how I get the path to user extensions: functon LC8UserExtensionsPath put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() into tPath replace quote with empty in tPath set the itemdelimiter to "/" put "Extensions" into item -1 of tPath return tPath end LC8UserExtensionsPath You can also try revIDESpecialFolderPath("extensions") and revIDESpecialFolderPath("user extensions"), which work but I've been advised not to use them. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 10 15:39:54 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:39:54 -0700 Subject: Paths in Mac standalone headache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5619698A.6010407@fourthworld.com> David V Glasgow wrote: > On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:52 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> when the culprit was simply a defaultFolder assignment that didn't >> take. > > Thanks. Helpful scripts both. I think it *is* simply a folder > assignment that doesn?t take. Not the default folder, but the > path to the results which I temporarily switch to. > > So, Richard, once you had identified the culprit in your directory > walker script, what did you do? What we did for years before it occurred to us to add adequate error-checking was to spend way too much time pondering recursion. :) Once we discovered that the recursion was happening not because we had directory structures more than 400,000 folders deep but simply because "set the directory..." was failing so we kept attempting to get the files of the same directory, we stopped doing that. More specifically, since the directory walker is attempting to walk all folders within a given folder, if "the result" is not empty when attempting to set "the directory" to any one of them we just skip that and move on to the next. With Mac Classic, where many of us developed our habits (both good and bad), the file system had no permissions so setting the directly almost never failed as long as the path was valid. On modern OS X and Linux systems, file system-level permissions are a key part of the improved security available with those OSes, so now access to a folder is something we should no longer take for granted. I just did a quick search via Google to try to find that thread from earlier this year, but came up empty. If anyone here has better luck it may be useful to review it. If you need a directory walker the function at the top of this page will suffice if you add error-checking after the "set the directory" line: The longer form below it on that page isn't really needed unless you have directories nested more than 400,000 deep (likely to result in an inode shortage long before you have an opportunity to traverse it in LiveCode ). -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Oct 10 15:40:21 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:40:21 -0700 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I've been trying to figure out some option for this, but only thing that comes to mind is: allowing the stack to fill the display normally, and manually adjusting the card's content to stay centered within the stack. The easiest way to do this would be to have all your controls in a group, if that's possible. Why does does the background portion need to be tappable? Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Oct 9, 2015, at 6:44 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > I am using "showAll" fullscreenmode for a mobile stack that uses large background images so that the entire screen will have content when the device is larger than the development stack. For example, the normal stack in the IDE is 414 pixels wide. On the iPhone simulator, there are perhaps 20-30 pixels outside that boundary on the edges. > > When I tap on those edge areas outside the "normal" stack boundary, no mouse messages are sent. I need to detect user clicks anywhere on the screen. I tried "noBorder" with the same results. Any suggestions? Given the current layout, letterbox won't work. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 15:44:33 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:44:33 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Great, thanks Mark, that's very useful. Like you, I'm parsing the manifest.xml files myself right now but will check into the revIDEExtensionProperty and revIDEExtensionsFetchMetadata() handlers. I'm getting the path to the user extensions folder the same way as you. Strange that they'd advise you not to use the official way to get those paths, especially the system extensions since it will be different on each platform. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/10/2015 11:49 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Thanks Mark. Do you happen to know if there are any handlers which return >> these paths or even the information about each widget from its >> manifest.xml >> file? It's easy enough to go through all the files myself and parse the >> xml myself but probably safer to use official handlers if they exist. >> > > I had similar questions yesterday: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=25530 > > I'm currently parsing the xml myself since I've already created the xml > tree by the time I need the info, but I'm using the technique in the > revIDEExtensionsFetchMetadata() function to get the metadata. That way I > avoid the overhead of creating the xml tree again, but I will probably > switch to doing that now that I've gotten the word that it's officially > condoned. > > Here's how I get the path to user extensions: > > functon LC8UserExtensionsPath > put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() into tPath > replace quote with empty in tPath > set the itemdelimiter to "/" > put "Extensions" into item -1 of tPath > return tPath > end LC8UserExtensionsPath > > You can also try revIDESpecialFolderPath("extensions") and > revIDESpecialFolderPath("user extensions"), which work but I've been > advised not to use them. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 10 15:45:29 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:45:29 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <56196AD9.6080403@ahsoftware.net> On 10/10/2015 12:36 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() into tPath I should also point out that the 'revEnvironment...' functions aren't in the dictionary but are listed in the Rev V5 release notes. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 15:47:09 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:47:09 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <56196AD9.6080403@ahsoftware.net> References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> <56196AD9.6080403@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Yes, I've been using them for a long time now and also wonder why they aren't in the dictionary. I think I might have filed a bug report about that a long while ago but don;t remember for sure. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/10/2015 12:36 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() into tPath >> > > I should also point out that the 'revEnvironment...' functions aren't in > the dictionary but are listed in the Rev V5 release notes. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 15:59:52 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 15:59:52 -0400 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: showAll doesn?t just center things and reveal extra content, it also scales the stack to fill the screen, no matter what size it is. You would have thought that if the background image is an object with a script in it, the touches would register. Maybe you?re using a non-control background image? noBorder might have a better chance, because everything you see is within the card area. I don?t see why a card or stack script would fail to pick up touches. Do the touches respond if you don?t have the background images? > On Oct 10, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > I've been trying to figure out some option for this, but only thing that comes to mind is: allowing the stack to fill the display normally, and manually adjusting the card's content to stay centered within the stack. The easiest way to do this would be to have all your controls in a group, if that's possible. > > Why does does the background portion need to be tappable? > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media UX/UI Design > >> On Oct 9, 2015, at 6:44 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> I am using "showAll" fullscreenmode for a mobile stack that uses large background images so that the entire screen will have content when the device is larger than the development stack. For example, the normal stack in the IDE is 414 pixels wide. On the iPhone simulator, there are perhaps 20-30 pixels outside that boundary on the edges. >> >> When I tap on those edge areas outside the "normal" stack boundary, no mouse messages are sent. I need to detect user clicks anywhere on the screen. I tried "noBorder" with the same results. Any suggestions? Given the current layout, letterbox won't work. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 10 16:12:40 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 13:12:40 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561961E7.4070405@ahsoftware.net> References: <561961E7.4070405@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <56197138.3000809@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > ...we have reached the point where LC8 is no longer "LC7 with > widgets"... there's a serious divide here. So while I can play > around with LC8 and try to figure out the new gadgety things > that are being thrown our way, in order to get any work done > I'm using tools that will soon be end-of-lifed. > > I'm no fan of the current property inspector. Or the application > browser, for that matter. But right now they allow me to get > work done. > So I'm a bit dismayed that rather than fixing/improving these tools, > they've just been replaced wholesale, and judging by the controversy > this has raised it appears I'm not alone. I see three options, listed here in order of ascending weirdness, though I feel obliged to note that "weird" simply means "of or pertaining to the supernatural", which is not necessarily a bad thing: Weird: Finish Github-compatible tools to allow community contributions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Given the variety of array-based and XML-based tools we already have for comparing stack files, and that all that needs to happen is some way to help the team identify and review changes efficiently, this may not be quite as onerous as it once seemed if managed by competent trusted community members in a check-in/check-out workflow. Weirder: Fork the IDE and maintain it through any convenient means ------------------------------------------------------------------ The longest-running open source project in the history of the LiveCode engine was the MetaCard IDE, managed through an informal check-in/check-out process using technology no more sophisticated than email. True, the MC IDE was a far less complex beast, but we were kids with far less experience. :) We can't expect the company to fold our updated IDE into the product build (thought they're welcome to if they like and perhaps it may be very cost-effective to consider it), but at a minimum we could make a simple plugin that installs it and updates independently of the product build, just as Jacque did with her MC Setup plugin (available in RevOnline). Weirdest: Replace the IDE with the best of community components --------------------------------------------------------------- Like the "Weirder" option above, this would be independent of the product build, but would open the door for anyone to do whatever they want. Bjornke's BVGDocu could replace the Dictionary, Peter's lcStackBrowser could replace the App and Proj browsers, your GLX2 editor could replace the Script Editor, etc. At that point the IDE becomes a very slender thing, just a tool rack on which we hang our own tools. And the tools within it would not only be the best of what the community has to offer, but could also be interchangeable. I started down this road with the latest version of my devolution toolkit, but since I already have it set up with my own favorites I haven't spent the time finishing that part of it (see the disabled group in the middle of this Prefs window): The idea there is that the option controls allow the user to pick the built-in IDE tool, or any plugin, to be opened when clicking the corresponding button to the left. Finishing something like that wouldn't be hard, merely tedious, so you'd be able to assign any stacks to specific menu and/or buttons used to access them. The weird soul using such an IDE could keep any LC parts if they like, or replace any parts with any suitably robust plugin, according to their whims. It's like the thing I like most about Linux: although people in the Linux world enjoy arguing about darn near everything, the fact is there's actually little to argue about since the system is so flexible and has so many components available there's no reason why everyone can't have exactly what they most desire. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 20:06:11 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:06:11 -0700 Subject: Widget Properties Message-ID: I assume widgets can have standard LC built-in properties as well as their own specific properties? For example if I set the disabled of a widget, it no longer reacts to mouse clicks, but if I get its properties, they are empty. I know widgets have their own property definitions but I would have thought any of the standard built-in properties would have been returned by their properties property. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 10 20:18:01 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:18:01 +1100 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 11 Oct 2015, at 11:06 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > I assume widgets can have standard LC built-in properties as well as their > own specific properties? > > For example if I set the disabled of a widget, it no longer reacts to mouse > clicks, but if I get its properties, they are empty. > > I know widgets have their own property definitions but I would have thought > any of the standard built-in properties would have been returned by their > properties property. Yes this is an odd one which I?ve queried before. You can now use export widget to array to get the widget defined properties as they will be saved. I don?t think this includes the base object properties like visible, rect, disabled etc though. This is one of the things I need to investigate if I ever have time to get lcVCS working on LC 8? Cheers Monte From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 10 20:23:00 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:23:00 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5619ABE4.8000901@ahsoftware.net> On 10/10/2015 12:44 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I'm getting the path to the user extensions folder the same way as > you. Strange that they'd advise you not to use the official way to get > those paths, especially the system extensions since it will be different on > each platform. Ah. No, sorry, I meant that the revIDESpecialFolderPath() functions were the ones I was advised not to use. They're not documented and I get the impression they may change or disappear with future builds of the IDE / engine. They're handy, but given that the revEnvironment... functions do the job neatly I'd stick with them and expect that they'll get documented in time. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 10 20:34:45 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 19:34:45 -0500 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? In-Reply-To: References: <25C34F2F-C9D1-4386-90DC-798B385913DC@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5619AEA5.4060203@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/10/2015 10:28 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 8:21 AM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> >> This sounds like a job for the merge command. >> >> > thanks,but that's a one-way trip. If the user changes something, I need to > know which piece, as it shows up elsewhere. (And, potentially the user > could change the base text, too, which would need to be save!) > I need to have wa way to keep a handle on the source of the changed word. I can't think of anything elegant offhand. What popped into my head was a "madlibs" approach where you put up a dialog requesting the various data items and save the responses. Not pretty. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 10 20:36:18 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:36:18 -0700 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Monte. Maybe I should file a QCC report or have you already done so? Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 11 Oct 2015, at 11:06 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > I assume widgets can have standard LC built-in properties as well as > their > > own specific properties? > > > > For example if I set the disabled of a widget, it no longer reacts to > mouse > > clicks, but if I get its properties, they are empty. > > > > I know widgets have their own property definitions but I would have > thought > > any of the standard built-in properties would have been returned by their > > properties property. > > Yes this is an odd one which I?ve queried before. You can now use export > widget to array to get the widget defined properties as they will be saved. > I don?t think this includes the base object properties like visible, rect, > disabled etc though. This is one of the things I need to investigate if I > ever have time to get lcVCS working on LC 8? > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Oct 10 20:44:57 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:44:57 -0700 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? In-Reply-To: <5619AEA5.4060203@hyperactivesw.com> References: <25C34F2F-C9D1-4386-90DC-798B385913DC@hyperactivesw.com> <5619AEA5.4060203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I probably don't understand the scope of the problem, but barring the use of wordOffset (am guessing some of your strings are multiple words), perhaps you could use htmlText with custom tags, i.e. Sept 10, 2015 and render the text as htmlText. In theory, the tags won't be shown to the user, but will be present in the htmlText. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >thanks,but that's a one-way trip. If the user changes something, I need >to >know which piece, as it shows up elsewhere. (And, potentially the user >could change the base text, too, which would need to be save!) >I need to have wa way to keep a handle on the source of the changed word. From mark at livecode.com Sat Oct 10 20:54:10 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 01:54:10 +0100 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <5619ABE4.8000901@ahsoftware.net> References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> <5619ABE4.8000901@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <103B99BE-2E01-4714-AC54-5065EACE0141@livecode.com> I don't think I expressed myself very well in the bug report you filed... The examples for syntax shouldn't use undocumented / ide functions - as it is misleading. The ide functions as yet aren't documented but at some point will be as a 'how to write ide components' reference. However, that being said, there are IDE APIs for accessing all information related to widgets so using those is the best approach for such things rather than writing bespoke code that processes their form on disk and in XML files. The best thing to do is to have a look through revidelibrary and revideextensionlibrary. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 11 Oct 2015, at 01:23, Mark Wieder wrote: > >> On 10/10/2015 12:44 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >> >> I'm getting the path to the user extensions folder the same way as >> you. Strange that they'd advise you not to use the official way to get >> those paths, especially the system extensions since it will be different on >> each platform. > > Ah. No, sorry, I meant that the revIDESpecialFolderPath() functions were the ones I was advised not to use. They're not documented and I get the impression they may change or disappear with future builds of the IDE / engine. They're handy, but given that the revEnvironment... functions do the job neatly I'd stick with them and expect that they'll get documented in time. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 21:09:01 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:09:01 -0700 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? In-Reply-To: <5619AEA5.4060203@hyperactivesw.com> References: <25C34F2F-C9D1-4386-90DC-798B385913DC@hyperactivesw.com> <5619AEA5.4060203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:34 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I can't think of anything elegant offhand. What popped into my head was a > "madlibs" approach where you put up a dialog requesting the various data > items and save the responses. Not pretty. > I'm partway there. I parse each input line looking for the ## delimiter. I set the text color to empty when not a variable, and to green for the variables. I also save the start/end charPos for each green section. Then when the user edits the field, they could change the boilerplate, which I could save separately for use other cases or save to the individual debtor's database, or they could change a rendered green section--and I could tell which by the color of the insertion point. Or, on mouseMove, I could put up an entry over the text (although stuff with line breaks could get weird . . .). I've also toyed with the custom html tags suggested by Scott, but wasn't sure whether they would cause rendering issues with live code. In that version, I could have something like needs to have 123 E. West St. --but I think I'd have to do all/most of the same things to backtrack from the position of entry. I also toyed with a custom url, like 123 E. West St. -- but *that* goes into areas I know even less about . . . Anyway, as I build the output, I maintain the start and end of each piece for both the input and output. Now I need to find something like the hlookup()/vlookup() spreadsheet functions, where the next lowest value is returned for values not in the list--eg, lookup(5,"3 4 7 8") would return 4. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 10 21:19:49 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:19:49 -0500 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks guys, I guess I need to explain the layout better. This is Swami's stack, which I think Colin has looked at. I'm pretty sure this is a bug, but it just barely borders on understandable behavior so I'm not sure. I've run into multiple issues with visual effects, mouse messages, and other things with this stack, particularly on Android. There's a background image (a real image object) on layer 1. Overlaid on that is a group containing a field with text. The field is the width of the card and scales correctly on mobile (in general; see below.) The original idea was to swipe vertically to scroll the field text (with a native scroller, which works fine) and swipe horizontally to change the text and related image. I couldn't make that work because I consistently get a mouseDown in the field, but almost never get a mouseUp when swiping. I almost asked about that here, but the specs changed to use a tap at the sides of the field for navigation so I dropped it. I do get both mouseDown and mouseUp for simple taps, so that works. But if the tap is outside the bounds of the original 141px stack width (on wider devices) no mouseUp or mouseDown messages are sent at all. Visually everything looks fine but nothing triggers. If I tap instead within the area of the unscaled stack width, it works. One thing that clued me in is that we use a scroll down visual effect in the rect of the text group to show new text. When the scroll happens, it is only as wide as the original 141 pixels, there is no scrolling at the edges. When the scroll effect is finished, the screen redraws and expands the field to include the full width of the device. It's like the scroll is happening inside a narrower column in the middle of the card, and then the display is corrected to scale afterward. You can see the group pop out to the edges suddenly. If I watch where the side edges of that column are, and I tap anywhere inside it, I get mouse events. If I tap anywhere outside it, no events. I did try a noBorder fullscreenMode instead of showAll, but the behavior was the same. Sounds like a bug to me, but we're on a deadline so I was hoping for a workaround. On 10/10/2015 2:59 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > showAll doesn?t just center things and reveal extra content, it also > scales the stack to fill the screen, no matter what size it is. > > You would have thought that if the background image is an object with > a script in it, the touches would register. Maybe you?re using a > non-control background image? > > noBorder might have a better chance, because everything you see is > within the card area. I don?t see why a card or stack script would > fail to pick up touches. > > Do the touches respond if you don?t have the background images? > > >> On Oct 10, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Scott Rossi >> wrote: >> >> I've been trying to figure out some option for this, but only thing >> that comes to mind is: allowing the stack to fill the display >> normally, and manually adjusting the card's content to stay >> centered within the stack. The easiest way to do this would be to >> have all your controls in a group, if that's possible. >> >> Why does does the background portion need to be tappable? >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design >> >>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 6:44 PM, J. Landman Gay >>> wrote: >>> >>> I am using "showAll" fullscreenmode for a mobile stack that uses >>> large background images so that the entire screen will have >>> content when the device is larger than the development stack. For >>> example, the normal stack in the IDE is 414 pixels wide. On the >>> iPhone simulator, there are perhaps 20-30 pixels outside that >>> boundary on the edges. >>> >>> When I tap on those edge areas outside the "normal" stack >>> boundary, no mouse messages are sent. I need to detect user >>> clicks anywhere on the screen. I tried "noBorder" with the same >>> results. Any suggestions? Given the current layout, letterbox >>> won't work. >>> >>> -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | >>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 10 21:22:04 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:22:04 -0500 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5619B9BC.80209@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/10/2015 8:19 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > the original 141px stack width My brain turned inside out. That should be 414 pixels. It doesn't change the problem though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 10 21:24:19 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:24:19 -0700 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5619BA43.9090304@fourthworld.com> Scott Rossi wrote: > I probably don't understand the scope of the problem, but barring the use > of wordOffset (am guessing some of your strings are multiple words), > perhaps you could use htmlText with custom tags, i.e. Sept 10, > 2015 and render the text as htmlText. In theory, the tags > won't be shown to the user, but will be present in the htmlText. Custom HtmlText tags are lost once the htmlText is set, but you can store arbitrary hidden text in a field using the span tag with a metadata attribute:

    Hello World

    See p11 of the v5.5.4 Release Notes for useful info on that and other supported htmlText tags: The Dictionary entry for the htmlText property has been updated for most tags added in v5.5.4, but not span - reported: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 21:36:04 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 21:36:04 -0400 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <97353D9E-609C-4974-997B-914FC87A4A30@gmail.com> I don?t remember that stack. What is its name? Or, can you post or email the current version? > On Oct 10, 2015, at 9:19 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Thanks guys, I guess I need to explain the layout better. This is Swami's stack, which I think Colin has looked at. I'm pretty sure this is a bug, but it just barely borders on understandable behavior so I'm not sure. I've run into multiple issues with visual effects, mouse messages, and other things with this stack, particularly on Android. > > There's a background image (a real image object) on layer 1. Overlaid on that is a group containing a field with text. The field is the width of the card and scales correctly on mobile (in general; see below.) > > The original idea was to swipe vertically to scroll the field text (with a native scroller, which works fine) and swipe horizontally to change the text and related image. I couldn't make that work because I consistently get a mouseDown in the field, but almost never get a mouseUp when swiping. I almost asked about that here, but the specs changed to use a tap at the sides of the field for navigation so I dropped it. I do get both mouseDown and mouseUp for simple taps, so that works. > > But if the tap is outside the bounds of the original 141px stack width (on wider devices) no mouseUp or mouseDown messages are sent at all. Visually everything looks fine but nothing triggers. If I tap instead within the area of the unscaled stack width, it works. > > One thing that clued me in is that we use a scroll down visual effect in the rect of the text group to show new text. When the scroll happens, it is only as wide as the original 141 pixels, there is no scrolling at the edges. When the scroll effect is finished, the screen redraws and expands the field to include the full width of the device. It's like the scroll is happening inside a narrower column in the middle of the card, and then the display is corrected to scale afterward. You can see the group pop out to the edges suddenly. > > If I watch where the side edges of that column are, and I tap anywhere inside it, I get mouse events. If I tap anywhere outside it, no events. I did try a noBorder fullscreenMode instead of showAll, but the behavior was the same. > > Sounds like a bug to me, but we're on a deadline so I was hoping for a workaround. > > > On 10/10/2015 2:59 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: >> showAll doesn?t just center things and reveal extra content, it also >> scales the stack to fill the screen, no matter what size it is. >> >> You would have thought that if the background image is an object with >> a script in it, the touches would register. Maybe you?re using a >> non-control background image? >> >> noBorder might have a better chance, because everything you see is >> within the card area. I don?t see why a card or stack script would >> fail to pick up touches. >> >> Do the touches respond if you don?t have the background images? >> >> >>> On Oct 10, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Scott Rossi >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've been trying to figure out some option for this, but only thing >>> that comes to mind is: allowing the stack to fill the display >>> normally, and manually adjusting the card's content to stay >>> centered within the stack. The easiest way to do this would be to >>> have all your controls in a group, if that's possible. >>> >>> Why does does the background portion need to be tappable? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design >>> >>>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 6:44 PM, J. Landman Gay >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am using "showAll" fullscreenmode for a mobile stack that uses >>>> large background images so that the entire screen will have >>>> content when the device is larger than the development stack. For >>>> example, the normal stack in the IDE is 414 pixels wide. On the >>>> iPhone simulator, there are perhaps 20-30 pixels outside that >>>> boundary on the edges. >>>> >>>> When I tap on those edge areas outside the "normal" stack >>>> boundary, no mouse messages are sent. I need to detect user >>>> clicks anywhere on the screen. I tried "noBorder" with the same >>>> results. Any suggestions? Given the current layout, letterbox >>>> won't work. >>>> >>>> -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | >>>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 21:40:45 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:40:45 -0700 Subject: customProperties or similar for words in a field? In-Reply-To: <5619BA43.9090304@fourthworld.com> References: <5619BA43.9090304@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >

    Hello World

    That gets back to parsing backwards from the point of insertion, I think . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 10 23:30:04 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 22:30:04 -0500 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <97353D9E-609C-4974-997B-914FC87A4A30@gmail.com> References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> <97353D9E-609C-4974-997B-914FC87A4A30@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5619D7BC.4080302@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/10/2015 8:36 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > I don?t remember that stack. What is its name? Or, can you post or email the current version? "Gurudeva". I thought he posted a link to a very early version and you took a look. You suggested using showAll, actually. I'll see if I can send you a copy. As it turns out, a user's finger is wider than the dead spot so we may be okay. It's still a bug, and the visual effect is weird looking, but the end result may still be usable. I was testing on the iOS simulator, and the pointer can click into narrow spaces where a finger can't. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 11 02:02:31 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 23:02:31 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <103B99BE-2E01-4714-AC54-5065EACE0141@livecode.com> References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> <5619ABE4.8000901@ahsoftware.net> <103B99BE-2E01-4714-AC54-5065EACE0141@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5619FB77.1000901@ahsoftware.net> On 10/10/2015 05:54 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > I don't think I expressed myself very well in the bug report you filed... > > The examples for syntax shouldn't use undocumented / ide functions - as it is misleading. > > The ide functions as yet aren't documented but at some point will be as a 'how to write ide components' reference. > > However, that being said, there are IDE APIs for accessing all information related to widgets so using those is the best approach for such things rather than writing bespoke code that processes their form on disk and in XML files. > > The best thing to do is to have a look through revidelibrary and revideextensionlibrary. OK. That puts things a bit more into perspective. I'm still reluctant, though, to rely on using things I've found while poking around in the IDE stacks without having them officially sanctioned unless there's no way around it. Thus my original bug report on that issue. I would worry that the IDE stacks may get refactored and some of the functions I count on have disappeared. I'm not suggesting that every handler in the IDE should be in the dictionary, but I think I'll keep asking for official sanction before committing function xyz to use. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 11 02:06:47 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 23:06:47 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <56197138.3000809@fourthworld.com> References: <561961E7.4070405@ahsoftware.net> <56197138.3000809@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5619FC77.9070001@ahsoftware.net> On 10/10/2015 01:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Weirdest: Replace the IDE with the best of community components > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Like the "Weirder" option above, this would be independent of the > product build, but would open the door for anyone to do whatever they > want. Bjornke's BVGDocu could replace the Dictionary, Peter's > lcStackBrowser could replace the App and Proj browsers, your GLX2 editor > could replace the Script Editor, etc. > > At that point the IDE becomes a very slender thing, just a tool rack on > which we hang our own tools. And the tools within it would not only be > the best of what the community has to offer, but could also be > interchangeable. That, I think is what Ali was implying. There is indeed movement in that direction in the IDE... what with publish and subscribe mechanisms and a palette abstraction layer... admittedly it's a long ways off yet. The palettes are hard-coded for now, and there's still a lot in the IDE that doesn't use the abstraction layer: for instance, the newTool handler goes directly to the "revTools" stack instead of querying for the palette, but I do see some light at the end of a long tunnel. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 11 02:11:39 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 17:11:39 +1100 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> > On 11 Oct 2015, at 11:36 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Thanks Monte. Maybe I should file a QCC report or have you already done so? No I haven?t reported it. I got the impression from the discussion that it was never intended to support the properties so it wouldn?t happen. I?m about to propose (on the engine forum) a refactor of the properties property (which I?ll do if they want me to) that will essentially make the properties property self maintaining rather than the current situation which means the list of properties for an object type needs to be maintained manually. This wasn?t possible before the refactor and there?s still a few issues like identifying which synonym of a property is the one to use in the properties array and which properties should be in the array. The end result will mean the properties of a widget will be kind + the standard properties for a control + the standard properties for an object. Cheers Monte From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 11 02:12:56 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 23:12:56 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> <56196AD9.6080403@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5619FDE8.5060902@ahsoftware.net> On 10/10/2015 12:47 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Yes, I've been using them for a long time now and also wonder why they > aren't in the dictionary. I think I might have filed a bug report about > that a long while ago but don;t remember for sure. Filed 16189 and 16190. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 11 02:26:34 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 23:26:34 -0700 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> References: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <561A011A.80806@ahsoftware.net> On 10/10/2015 11:11 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > No I haven?t reported it. I got the impression from the discussion that it was never intended to support the properties so it wouldn?t happen. I?m about to propose (on the engine forum) a refactor of the properties property (which I?ll do if they want me to) that will essentially make the properties property self maintaining rather than the current situation which means the list of properties for an object type needs to be maintained manually. This wasn?t possible before the refactor and there?s still a few issues like identifying which synonym of a property is the one to use in the properties array and which properties should be in the array. The end result will mean the properties of a widget will be kind + the standard properties for a control + the standard properties for an object. Oh, please do. I hate that manual updating thing. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 11 02:44:16 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 17:44:16 +1100 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: <561A011A.80806@ahsoftware.net> References: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> <561A011A.80806@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: > On 11 Oct 2015, at 5:26 pm, Mark Wieder wrote: > > On 10/10/2015 11:11 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> No I haven?t reported it. I got the impression from the discussion that it was never intended to support the properties so it wouldn?t happen. I?m about to propose (on the engine forum) a refactor of the properties property (which I?ll do if they want me to) that will essentially make the properties property self maintaining rather than the current situation which means the list of properties for an object type needs to be maintained manually. This wasn?t possible before the refactor and there?s still a few issues like identifying which synonym of a property is the one to use in the properties array and which properties should be in the array. The end result will mean the properties of a widget will be kind + the standard properties for a control + the standard properties for an object. > > Oh, please do. I hate that manual updating thing. Here?s what I?m thinking: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=25563 If I get the go ahead there?s going to be bucket loads trivial changes and stuff like identifying which token is a synonym and which is the official token. Things like rect and rectangle are curly because just about nobody uses rectangle yet obviously rect is the synonym and has been used in the properties property for as long as it has existed... Cheers Monte From mark at livecode.com Sun Oct 11 04:10:26 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:10:26 +0100 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <5619FB77.1000901@ahsoftware.net> References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> <5619ABE4.8000901@ahsoftware.net> <103B99BE-2E01-4714-AC54-5065EACE0141@livecode.com> <5619FB77.1000901@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Well we can certainly come up with a list of the handlers which are definitely part of the API used by the palettes. I'd point out that the format on disk of the extensions folder and the metadata file hadn't been 'officially sanctioned' as not going to change either... Hence why the IDE indirects through a library with a reasonable api to manipulate such things. Indeed, having to rewrite code that replicates code in the IDE because something has to be tweaked at a lower-level (eg manifest format, file layout) seems like a lot more work than potentially having to tweak the use of an IDE API. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 11 Oct 2015, at 07:02, Mark Wieder wrote: > >> On 10/10/2015 05:54 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> I don't think I expressed myself very well in the bug report you filed... >> >> The examples for syntax shouldn't use undocumented / ide functions - as it is misleading. >> >> The ide functions as yet aren't documented but at some point will be as a 'how to write ide components' reference. >> >> However, that being said, there are IDE APIs for accessing all information related to widgets so using those is the best approach for such things rather than writing bespoke code that processes their form on disk and in XML files. >> >> The best thing to do is to have a look through revidelibrary and revideextensionlibrary. > > OK. That puts things a bit more into perspective. > I'm still reluctant, though, to rely on using things I've found while poking around in the IDE stacks without having them officially sanctioned unless there's no way around it. Thus my original bug report on that issue. I would worry that the IDE stacks may get refactored and some of the functions I count on have disappeared. I'm not suggesting that every handler in the IDE should be in the dictionary, but I think I'll keep asking for official sanction before committing function xyz to use. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Sun Oct 11 04:36:39 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:36:39 +0200 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <5619FDE8.5060902@ahsoftware.net> References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> <56196AD9.6080403@ahsoftware.net> <5619FDE8.5060902@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On 2015-10-11 08:12, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/10/2015 12:47 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >> Yes, I've been using them for a long time now and also wonder why they >> aren't in the dictionary. I think I might have filed a bug report >> about >> that a long while ago but don;t remember for sure. > > Filed 16189 and 16190. They've never been documented because we've never put 'IDE only' functions in the dictionary - the latter always having been about what is available to an application you write in the IDE; rather than what is available to write a tool running in the IDE which helps to write an application. I agree, however, that it is important for the tool writers that this kind of reference be available. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Sun Oct 11 05:08:51 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:08:51 +0200 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> References: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-11 08:11, Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 11 Oct 2015, at 11:36 am, Peter Haworth wrote: >> >> Thanks Monte. Maybe I should file a QCC report or have you already >> done so? > > No I haven?t reported it. I got the impression from the discussion > that it was never intended to support the properties so it wouldn?t > happen. I?m about to propose (on the engine forum) a refactor of the > properties property (which I?ll do if they want me to) that will > essentially make the properties property self maintaining rather than > the current situation which means the list of properties for an object > type needs to be maintained manually. This wasn?t possible before the > refactor and there?s still a few issues like identifying which synonym > of a property is the one to use in the properties array and which > properties should be in the array. The end result will mean the > properties of a widget will be kind + the standard properties for a > control + the standard properties for an object. I don't think we have ever had the intention not to update the properties property to make it work for widgets - we just haven't done so yet. Part of the reason for this is that 'the properties' property is quite ill-posed. As it stands it is essentially 'the properties needed to recreate the object' (after the work Monte did on it a couple of years ago); however that concept is difficult as it actually requires hard-coded rules in it to ensure that when you set 'the properties' the properties are set in the correct order. Widgets complicate matters somewhat. We make no requirement that the state a widget must preserve to recreate itself be directly related to the properties you actually set (this is actually also true of existing engine controls - hence why there is a need for 'hardcoded' rules in the properties property implementation). Now, I'm not saying this situation is ideal, there are various things we could do in the future to make widgets easier to write if they follow the rule that 'there should be a set of persistent properties which don't overlap and fully faithfully allow recreation of the object' (for widgets that claim to be this, they wouldn't need an OnSave / OnLoad handler as the engine could synthesise one). However, that doesn't change the fact that currently engine controls don't follow that rule and I'd be loathe to put a restriction on all widgets in that fashion as I cannot forsee the widgets people might wish to write. Basically there is a bit distinction between: 1) The data you need to recreate an object (this is what lcVCS needs). 2) The information you need to provide good introspection on created objects (this is what the IDE / inspectors etc. need). Right now, I'd be incredibly dubious if a single 'properties' property could be made to handle both these uses - the lengthy thread a couple of years ago on this precise topic made that absolutely clear. Moreover, we have worked quite hard in the IDE to provide a mechanism for (2) - it is what the new property inspector is based on - i.e. APIs for returning information and data about objects in the environment. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Sun Oct 11 05:14:05 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:14:05 +0200 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2015-10-11 02:18, Monte Goulding wrote: > Yes this is an odd one which I?ve queried before. You can now use > export widget to array to get the widget defined properties as they > will be saved. I don?t think this includes the base object properties > like visible, rect, disabled etc though. This is one of the things I > need to investigate if I ever have time to get lcVCS working on LC 8? Well I added a minimal 'export widget to array' command precisely for use by lcVCS (as well as the 'is really a ' operators). As it stands it returns a standard array structure which encodes the internal state required by a widget to reconstruct it's portion of things. The eventual aim is that the command will work on any object to return its internal structure in a similar way. The 'parent' properties aren't currently there because none of the engine object classes (apart from Widget) currently implement an appropriate 'export to array' mechanism; and I figured it would be easy enough for you to leverage existing lcVCS code to fetch the small set of base properties that also need to be saved. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Sun Oct 11 05:56:40 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:56:40 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <56197138.3000809@fourthworld.com> References: <561961E7.4070405@ahsoftware.net> <56197138.3000809@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> On 2015-10-10 22:12, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Weirdest: Replace the IDE with the best of community components > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Like the "Weirder" option above, this would be independent of the > product build, but would open the door for anyone to do whatever they > want. Bjornke's BVGDocu could replace the Dictionary, Peter's > lcStackBrowser could replace the App and Proj browsers, your GLX2 > editor could replace the Script Editor, etc. ... > It's like the thing I like most about Linux: although people in the > Linux world enjoy arguing about darn near everything, the fact is > there's actually little to argue about since the system is so flexible > and has so many components available there's no reason why everyone > can't have exactly what they most desire. The obvious option (which is the one we have been working towards in the LC8 IDE) is that the IDE becomes a 'framework'. It provides well defined extension points, well defined APIs for building IDE components, and a well defined mechanism to ensure that changes flow properly so all components are kept synchronized. The IDE framework has to be the arbiter which ensures that two distinct IDE components (which could be written and maintained by people who never speak to each other) can happily co-exist with each other in an end-user's install. In particular, this means that IDE components *cannot* patch random parts of the IDE (as they might conflict), and any points within the IDE which might be usefully customized (e.g. adding extra buttons to revMenubar) need to be explicitly exposed in a well-defined way. Now a lot of work has been done towards this, but at the moment if you want to play with it you have to do a bit of digging around in the libraries which are emerging (revidelibrary, revideextensionlibrary etc.) and the revised components which use these new APIs. Admittedly we aren't quite there yet as it does take time to introduce good abstractions into code which did not have them before (well, not ones which were suitable for a more step-back and provide the ability for anyone to extend point of view at least). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 11 06:31:05 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 21:31:05 +1100 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: > On 11 Oct 2015, at 8:08 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > I don't think we have ever had the intention not to update the properties property to make it work for widgets - we just haven't done so yet. > > Part of the reason for this is that 'the properties' property is quite ill-posed. As it stands it is essentially 'the properties needed to recreate the object' (after the work Monte did on it a couple of years ago); however that concept is difficult as it actually requires hard-coded rules in it to ensure that when you set 'the properties' the properties are set in the correct order. Oh, yeah that was a headache working all that out... > > Widgets complicate matters somewhat. We make no requirement that the state a widget must preserve to recreate itself be directly related to the properties you actually set (this is actually also true of existing engine controls - hence why there is a need for 'hardcoded' rules in the properties property implementation). > > Now, I'm not saying this situation is ideal, there are various things we could do in the future to make widgets easier to write if they follow the rule that 'there should be a set of persistent properties which don't overlap and fully faithfully allow recreation of the object' (for widgets that claim to be this, they wouldn't need an OnSave / OnLoad handler as the engine could synthesise one). Nice idea > > However, that doesn't change the fact that currently engine controls don't follow that rule and I'd be loathe to put a restriction on all widgets in that fashion as I cannot forsee the widgets people might wish to write. > > Basically there is a bit distinction between: > > 1) The data you need to recreate an object (this is what lcVCS needs). > > 2) The information you need to provide good introspection on created objects (this is what the IDE / inspectors etc. need). > > Right now, I'd be incredibly dubious if a single 'properties' property could be made to handle both these uses - the lengthy thread a couple of years ago on this precise topic made that absolutely clear. > > Moreover, we have worked quite hard in the IDE to provide a mechanism for (2) - it is what the new property inspector is based on - i.e. APIs for returning information and data about objects in the environment. Yes, 2 is not really my concern. Having said that I?m not really sure why some of the stuff in the manifest (handlers and properties) couldn?t have just been done by introspection. Was it necessary to know all that stuff before loading the extension? I can understand the dependencies, icon, name etc but the handlers and properties seems a missed opportunity as it looks like they are available in the exported definitions. Re 1 a possibility could be some combination of the properties and the exported array from OnSave. The properties of a widget could be something like: - kind - control & object props (rect, visible etc) - state - the stuff in the $state key from the exported array The only problem here is you can?t just create a blank widget and set the kind like this so its probably not worthwhile having kind in there. The rest could work fine and the widget author is in full control of how the state array is parsed. However, it may be better to just deprecate the properties and finish the export to array stuff. Cheers Monte From mark at livecode.com Sun Oct 11 07:10:35 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:10:35 +0200 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-11 12:31, Monte Goulding wrote: > Yes, 2 is not really my concern. Having said that I?m not really sure > why some of the stuff in the manifest (handlers and properties) > couldn?t have just been done by introspection. Was it necessary to > know all that stuff before loading the extension? I can understand the > dependencies, icon, name etc but the handlers and properties seems a > missed opportunity as it looks like they are available in the exported > definitions. It's not about needing to know it before the extension is loaded, it is more about where the appropriate information is stored. The widget module file stores all the code / embedding related things (so compiled bytecode, public handler definitions, property definitions etc.) but it doesn't contain anything that might be called 'metadata' - things like the name of the editor widget to use for a particular property (which is not necessarily related to its type). Therefore, the manifest file stores all the metadata which is not related to the actually running of the widget as well as the exported public definitions in an easy to access way. (Basically, we needed sideline information which wasn't suitable for inclusion in the actual module format, and thus it seemed sensible to put the other information the IDE would need in the manifest too rather than it having to both interrogate an XML file *and* introspect on the loaded module). At some point the metadata expressed in widget lcb files might well get put into the compiled module blob - but it seemed more expedient whilst developing the ideas to keep it separate as it is easier to change the XML format that is emitted and read than it is the compiled module blob format. > Re 1 a possibility could be some combination of the properties and the > exported array from OnSave. The properties of a widget could be > something like: > > - kind > - control & object props (rect, visible etc) > - state > - the stuff in the $state key from the exported array > > The only problem here is you can?t just create a blank widget and set > the kind like this so its probably not worthwhile having kind in > there. The rest could work fine and the widget author is in full > control of how the state array is parsed. That was essentially what I was envisaging. You shouldn't think of a 'widget' as being something which can change its kind. A widget takes on its kind when it is created, so the 'kind' property falls into the same class as 'button' or 'field'. So you create a widget of a given kind *then* set its state. > However, it may be better to just deprecate the properties and finish > the export to array stuff. The export to array stuff is the best (future) basis for things such as lcVCS. Indeed eventually, if it was rolled out across all engine objects, the stackfile format would become arrayEncode(stackExportedToArray("my stack")) - although that would require a much more efficient arrayEncode format (something which has been at the back of my mind for ages - but nothing I've had time to put into action). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 09:31:57 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:31:57 -0400 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <5619D7BC.4080302@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> <97353D9E-609C-4974-997B-914FC87A4A30@gmail.com> <5619D7BC.4080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I still have that here. It didn?t have any mouse actions at the time I looked at it. So, changing to noBorder could be worth a try. You would have the card be 3:4 ratio, and 9:16 devices would see the middle area, and iPad would see the whole width, and mouse events would all be happening inside the card area. > On Oct 10, 2015, at 11:30 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 10/10/2015 8:36 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: >> I don?t remember that stack. What is its name? Or, can you post or email the current version? > > "Gurudeva". I thought he posted a link to a very early version and you took a look. You suggested using showAll, actually. I'll see if I can send you a copy. > > As it turns out, a user's finger is wider than the dead spot so we may be okay. It's still a bug, and the visual effect is weird looking, but the end result may still be usable. I was testing on the iOS simulator, and the pointer can click into narrow spaces where a finger can't. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Oct 11 09:48:01 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:48:01 +0200 Subject: Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner Message-ID: <561A6891.4040708@economy-x-talk.com> Hi, Currently, we're selling lots of books and on tuesday we'll be sending an extra batch. If you want the book to be delivered quickly, you can order now and have it sent within 2 days. Any book ordered before monday night will be shipped on tuesday. Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner is a book that gives you a quick introduction to the LiveCode language. It contains examples of many common situations and helps you to understand how the LiveCode language works. It doesn't depend on a particular version of the IDE and is useful for all version from Revolution 4.5 till LiveCode 8. An e-book is not and won't be available. For more information, see the link in my signature. -- Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 09:54:53 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:54:53 -0400 Subject: Paths in Mac standalone headache In-Reply-To: <5619698A.6010407@fourthworld.com> References: <5619698A.6010407@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5C0060C8-53E0-42F6-8CA6-83A0B7E777FD@gmail.com> On Oct 10, 2015, at 3:39 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Once we discovered that the recursion was happening not because we had directory structures more than 400,000 folders deep but simply because "set the directory..." was failing so we kept attempting to get the files of the same directory, we stopped doing that. OMG, under what circumstances have you needed to deal with a folder structure more than 400,000 deep??? -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sun Oct 11 10:02:03 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:02:03 -0400 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> <97353D9E-609C-4974-997B-914FC87A4A30@gmail.com> <5619D7BC.4080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: If showAll works properly on other mobile devices, but "in particular" fails on Android, it is a bug. Workarounds are fine, but bugs still need to be addressed. On Oct 11, 2015 9:32 AM, "Colin Holgate" wrote: > I still have that here. It didn?t have any mouse actions at the time I > looked at it. > > So, changing to noBorder could be worth a try. You would have the card be > 3:4 ratio, and 9:16 devices would see the middle area, and iPad would see > the whole width, and mouse events would all be happening inside the card > area. > > > On Oct 10, 2015, at 11:30 PM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > > > > On 10/10/2015 8:36 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > >> I don?t remember that stack. What is its name? Or, can you post or > email the current version? > > > > "Gurudeva". I thought he posted a link to a very early version and you > took a look. You suggested using showAll, actually. I'll see if I can send > you a copy. > > > > As it turns out, a user's finger is wider than the dead spot so we may > be okay. It's still a bug, and the visual effect is weird looking, but the > end result may still be usable. I was testing on the iOS simulator, and the > pointer can click into narrow spaces where a finger can't. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 12:15:52 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:15:52 -0700 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value Message-ID: It would be nice to have an intrinsic for this, but I just read the entire function list . . . I need to find the largest number in a list which is smaller than a specified value. e.g., for the list "1,3,4,7,9" and 5, the largest such value would be 4. In a spreadsheet, I could use use vlookup() and specified the index as the row to return. In a database, could " SELECT MAX(myVar) WHERE myVar<5;", and so forth I had thought that FILTER could take a]b arbitrary function, but apparently not. t It could conceivably use a rgexp, but calling a regex for numeric comparison "ugly" would be polite I'm not seeing anyhing better than lo better than looping through at the moment -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pete at lcsql.com Sun Oct 11 12:16:19 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:16:19 -0700 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> <561A011A.80806@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: You have my vote to go ahead with that and thanks for proposing it. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Monte Goulding < monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > > On 11 Oct 2015, at 5:26 pm, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > > On 10/10/2015 11:11 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > >> No I haven?t reported it. I got the impression from the discussion that > it was never intended to support the properties so it wouldn?t happen. I?m > about to propose (on the engine forum) a refactor of the properties > property (which I?ll do if they want me to) that will essentially make the > properties property self maintaining rather than the current situation > which means the list of properties for an object type needs to be > maintained manually. This wasn?t possible before the refactor and there?s > still a few issues like identifying which synonym of a property is the one > to use in the properties array and which properties should be in the array. > The end result will mean the properties of a widget will be kind + the > standard properties for a control + the standard properties for an object. > > > > Oh, please do. I hate that manual updating thing. > > Here?s what I?m thinking: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=25563 < > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=25563> > > If I get the go ahead there?s going to be bucket loads trivial changes and > stuff like identifying which token is a synonym and which is the official > token. Things like rect and rectangle are curly because just about nobody > uses rectangle yet obviously rect is the synonym and has been used in the > properties property for as long as it has existed... > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 11 13:18:03 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:18:03 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> <56196AD9.6080403@ahsoftware.net> <5619FDE8.5060902@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <561A99CB.50202@ahsoftware.net> On 10/11/2015 01:36 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > I agree, however, that it is important for the tool writers that this > kind of reference be available. Add to that the fact that I haven't even been able to find which ide library those functions live in, so unless you already know about them (meaning that you have a copy of the v5 release notes) you will end up recreating them by finding the engine folder and fiddling with the path, hoping it doesn't change, etc. I'm currently in the situation where the built-in Extensions folder is in a different place in the folder structure on OSX from where it is in linux, so I'm having to special-case my code depending on platform. I haven't looked at Windows yet, but hopefully it will fall into one of those two categories. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From prothero at earthednet.org Sun Oct 11 13:34:05 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:34:05 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> References: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard: Thanks for the info. I think a task-driven cookbook does really need to be community developed. There are so many emails here that ask ?how do I do xyz?? or ?xyz won?t work? why?? Compiling these, with dates and keywords, and a user commenting facility, would go a long way toward accomplishing this. If there was a web site where users could make these contributions and a reviewer of some sort could edit them prior to inclusion in the ?master cookbook?, that might work. For me, my main frustration is getting an app onto iPhone. There is a tutorial on the livecode site, which helped me a lot. Later, after I forgot its details, I tried to make a new iOS app and got burned by the provisioning profile, which I tried to make generic, but LC wouldn?t accept a generic one. When I went back to the original tutorial, I got it working, but it took me more than a day to get there. So, I dread my next try at iOS. Also, getting an Apple certificate is another hurdle and I haven?t accomplished that yet, as I?ve been tryin got use AppWrapper 3 and it won?t work. Some kind of cookbook, that could be updated as Apple adds new hurdles and requirements, would be marvelous. I have a ?Notebook? app that has the following headings. The headings I use currently are shown below. There are sub-headings with specific code and for different applications. It is just a collection, saved from the email list over the last two years for my own use and not refined for mass distribution. Array handling Behaviors Calling handlers, out of path hierarchy CEF Browser Code signing Color-mouse-at loc Date DataGrid Debugger use and tricks Detect if app is running and user is "on" it. DNS mysteries Drag and Drop Email thru livecode server Encryption Fields, text display Files and directories Find out if some program is running Get Mac camera image Get Version in iOS Graphic effects Groups Images iOS mobile stuff Learning materials links Memory monitoring MobGui Mobile Copying stacks and using them as libraries Number precision PHP and databases Playing sound in SA and Mobile Playing sounds Printing Product version from script Scientific notation converter Screen scaling issues SnapShots Scrolling Server stuff Sorting Sockets SSH Tunneling Ssh and secure transfer Stacks and substacks Text Code: Parsing Delimited Text-Rotating Text to speech Text Time Zone Info User function names-getting them from scripts Video Widgets Best, Bill > On Oct 10, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > William Prothero wrote: > >> I said we need a dictionary focussed on tasks, not on commands, >> but obviously we need both. I know Richard has been leading a >> group taking this on. Richard, is this happening? > > The focus of an API reference like the LiveCode Dictionary will always have the language tokens as their primary index. This can (and arguably should) be augmented with tags to support searching for strings conceptually related but not found in the token itself or its description. I believe that's been put into place for the future, but regrettably not available in the current shipping product v7. > > Task-driven documentation is traditionally the domain of things like "Cookbooks". That format allows for the exploration of related concepts in a more detailed way that would be clumsy or even distracting in a Dictionary. IIRC LiveCode 1.0 had Cookbook, but I'm not sure when it was dropped. > > To answer your question about the Community Documentation Team, over the last year the core team at LiveCode Ltd. has been migrating all documentation content into Github markdown so that it can not only be more easily edited but also reviewed, merged, and compiled into the product build more easily as well. > > Peter Brett at LiveCode Ltd. has taken on the role of stewarding community engagement projects like this one, and the process of migrating the content to markdown is now far enough along that my next meeting with Dr. Brett will focus on conveying the dynamics of the workflow so we can get to work. > > The scope defined for the moment, however, is to update existing docs. > > If there's a desire for a Cookbook I would encourage the community to consider establishing a wiki for that. Indeed, there is one at wikia.com which may be a good starting point: > > > To help guide such an effort, let me ask you a question related to the CreateIt course you mentioned: > > You've been using LiveCode for many years, and have made some substantial software with it. At this point in your work, what topics would you find most valuable? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sun Oct 11 14:21:06 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:21:06 -0700 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 2:08 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Moreover, we have worked quite hard in the IDE to provide a mechanism for > (2) - it is what the new property inspector is based on - i.e. APIs for > returning information and data about objects in the environment. > Hi Mark, The PI for a widget includes some of the non-widget properties such as ink, blendlevel, size and position info, text info, and a few others. Is there an API to get a list of which non-widget properties are available or are they hard coded into the PI? Thanks, Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Oct 11 14:37:30 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:37:30 -0500 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: References: <56186D71.8070300@hyperactivesw.com> <5619B935.5070406@hyperactivesw.com> <97353D9E-609C-4974-997B-914FC87A4A30@gmail.com> <5619D7BC.4080302@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <561AAC6A.8000204@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/11/2015 9:02 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > If showAll works properly on other mobile devices, but "in particular" > fails on Android, it is a bug. Workarounds are fine, but bugs still need > to be addressed. I probably wasn't clear. ShowAll works (or rather, doesn't work) the same way on both iOS and Android though I think it's still a bug. But I've hit lots of other bugs that do only affect Android, mostly with image redraws and visual effects which are significantly broken on Android, and I need to submit reports about those. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Oct 11 14:53:35 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:53:35 -0700 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <561AAC6A.8000204@hyperactivesw.com> References: <561AAC6A.8000204@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <561AB02F.1040105@fourthworld.com> J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/11/2015 9:02 AM, Roger Eller wrote: >> If showAll works properly on other mobile devices, but "in >> particular" fails on Android, it is a bug. Workarounds are >> fine, but bugs still need to be addressed. > > I probably wasn't clear. ShowAll works (or rather, doesn't work) the > same way on both iOS and Android though I think it's still a bug. But > I've hit lots of other bugs that do only affect Android, mostly with > image redraws and visual effects which are significantly broken on > Android, and I need to submit reports about those. Help me understand something: when is showAll useful? I can appreciate the ease for quickie builds during early-stage development, but sooner or later the app will (hopefully) be released into a world in which device resolutions, sizes, and ratios can't be known in advance. On the desktop we handle all possible sizes with resizeStack handlers. When would a developer not apply the same loving care to their mobile layout? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 15:16:58 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:16:58 -0400 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <561AB02F.1040105@fourthworld.com> References: <561AAC6A.8000204@hyperactivesw.com> <561AB02F.1040105@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <933A92EB-84E3-4719-97B7-C958003BE959@gmail.com> Think of any story scene based game, where what you see is not a utility app full of fields and buttons that could be placed using code. You would not want to have to create different artwork for every possible aspect ratio screen. Instead you have extra scenery that gets revealed on wider or taller devices. Almost all the apps I?ve made used showall, where either there was extra content to the left and right of the card area (stage area as the case was, not being LiveCode apps), or extra content above and below the card area. Which way I work depends on the nature of the app. For example, in a book like app I want the full height of the page to always be visible, and I reveal spare background to the left and right (this is with landscape by the way). For graphical games I make it be that all devices see the full width of the scene, and on wider aspect ration devices the scene gets cropped at the top and bottom. The essential game play is within a 16:9 center part of the display, and there is extra background to take it up to 4:3 ratio. Sometimes I don?t want to eat into so much of either the width or the height, and for those cases I have 14:9 ratio content, and use noborder. On a 4:3 device you see the full height of the scene, and most of the width. On 16:9 devices you see the full width of the scene, and most of the height. It?s a good compromise, and the safety area is the middle 14:9 part of the scene. The advantage of all this is that you don?t have to worry about either the screen size or aspect ratio, LiveCode makes your content fill the screen. I made these pages to show off the different modes. Choose one of them and then resize the browser window to simulate different aspect ratio devices: http://colin.scienceninja.com/showall.html http://colin.scienceninja.com/noborder.html http://colin.scienceninja.com/topleftnoscale.html http://colin.scienceninja.com/noscale.html http://colin.scienceninja.com/exactfit.html The red lines are iPad ratio, green is iPhone 4 ratio, and blue is iPhone 5 ratio. > On Oct 11, 2015, at 2:53 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > J. Landman Gay wrote: > > > On 10/11/2015 9:02 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > >> If showAll works properly on other mobile devices, but "in > >> particular" fails on Android, it is a bug. Workarounds are > >> fine, but bugs still need to be addressed. > > > > I probably wasn't clear. ShowAll works (or rather, doesn't work) the > > same way on both iOS and Android though I think it's still a bug. But > > I've hit lots of other bugs that do only affect Android, mostly with > > image redraws and visual effects which are significantly broken on > > Android, and I need to submit reports about those. > > Help me understand something: when is showAll useful? > > I can appreciate the ease for quickie builds during early-stage development, but sooner or later the app will (hopefully) be released into a world in which device resolutions, sizes, and ratios can't be known in advance. > > On the desktop we handle all possible sizes with resizeStack handlers. When would a developer not apply the same loving care to their mobile layout? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 11 15:45:31 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:45:31 +1100 Subject: Widget Properties In-Reply-To: References: <90280B14-DF7C-4DA1-BBB5-51CE045659B7@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <32884A11-5374-41F8-BE80-63851A196A03@sweattechnologies.com> > On 11 Oct 2015, at 10:10 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > Basically, we needed sideline information which wasn't suitable for inclusion in the actual module format, and thus it seemed sensible to put the other information the IDE would need in the manifest too rather than it having to both interrogate an XML file *and* introspect on the loaded module). Ah, forgot about stuff like property editors being in there. > > At some point the metadata expressed in widget lcb files might well get put into the compiled module blob - but it seemed more expedient whilst developing the ideas to keep it separate as it is easier to change the XML format that is emitted and read than it is the compiled module blob format. Fair enough > The export to array stuff is the best (future) basis for things such as lcVCS. Indeed eventually, if it was rolled out across all engine objects, the stackfile format would become arrayEncode(stackExportedToArray("my stack")) - although that would require a much more efficient arrayEncode format (something which has been at the back of my mind for ages - but nothing I've had time to put into action). Wouldn?t it also bloat the file format considerably with array keys? I guess the advantages will probably outweigh the disadvantages though. You would never need to worry about file format changes again unless you had to change the arrayEncode format. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Oct 11 17:34:25 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 16:34:25 -0500 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <561AB02F.1040105@fourthworld.com> References: <561AAC6A.8000204@hyperactivesw.com> <561AB02F.1040105@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561AD5E1.6080509@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/11/2015 1:53 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > On the desktop we handle all possible sizes with resizeStack handlers. > When would a developer not apply the same loving care to their mobile > layout? Colin is spot on. If you choose the right fullscreenMode and set up your layout appropriately you don't need any resizeStack handler at all. It works beautifully and it's all automatic. All the controls are scaled, placed correctly, and even the text size updates proportionally. For me, this is the most important improvement to mobile deployment that LC has done. I think Colin was a little too reserved though, and that if carefully planned, even a screen full of database fields would scale just fine as long as you restrain the content area to the appropriate part of the screen. There's little difference really between the "playable area" of a game and the "working area" of a data card. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mikedoub at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 17:38:51 2015 From: mikedoub at gmail.com (Michael Doub) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 17:38:51 -0400 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: References: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> Would it be reasonable to ask Livecode to host a wiki site for documentation and examples? I kind of like the idea of having the ability to add information or update when I see something that it out of date or unclear. The problem is always organization and searching. This would still need to be dealt with, but the wiki idea lets the community contribute and edit. Sorry if this is out of context. I am just catching back up on email. -= Mike On 10/11/15 1:34 PM, William Prothero wrote: > Richard: > Thanks for the info. I think a task-driven cookbook does really need to be community developed. There are so many emails here that ask ?how do I do xyz?? or ?xyz won?t work? why?? Compiling these, with dates and keywords, and a user commenting facility, would go a long way toward accomplishing this. If there was a web site where users could make these contributions and a reviewer of some sort could edit them prior to inclusion in the ?master cookbook?, that might work. > > For me, my main frustration is getting an app onto iPhone. There is a tutorial on the livecode site, which helped me a lot. Later, after I forgot its details, I tried to make a new iOS app and got burned by the provisioning profile, which I tried to make generic, but LC wouldn?t accept a generic one. When I went back to the original tutorial, I got it working, but it took me more than a day to get there. So, I dread my next try at iOS. Also, getting an Apple certificate is another hurdle and I haven?t accomplished that yet, as I?ve been tryin got use AppWrapper 3 and it won?t work. Some kind of cookbook, that could be updated as Apple adds new hurdles and requirements, would be marvelous. > > I have a ?Notebook? app that has the following headings. The headings I use currently are shown below. There are sub-headings with specific code and for different applications. It is just a collection, saved from the email list over the last two years for my own use and not refined for mass distribution. > > Array handling > Behaviors > Calling handlers, out of path hierarchy > CEF Browser > Code signing > Color-mouse-at loc > Date > DataGrid > Debugger use and tricks > Detect if app is running and user is "on" it. > DNS mysteries > Drag and Drop > Email thru livecode server > Encryption > Fields, text display > Files and directories > Find out if some program is running > Get Mac camera image > Get Version in iOS > Graphic effects > Groups > Images > iOS mobile stuff > Learning materials links > Memory monitoring > MobGui > Mobile Copying stacks and using them as libraries > Number precision > PHP and databases > Playing sound in SA and Mobile > Playing sounds > Printing > Product version from script > Scientific notation converter > Screen scaling issues > SnapShots > Scrolling > Server stuff > Sorting > Sockets > SSH Tunneling > Ssh and secure transfer > Stacks and substacks > Text Code: Parsing Delimited > Text-Rotating > Text to speech > Text > Time Zone Info > User function names-getting them from scripts > Video > Widgets > > Best, > Bill > >> On Oct 10, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> William Prothero wrote: >> >>> I said we need a dictionary focussed on tasks, not on commands, >>> but obviously we need both. I know Richard has been leading a >>> group taking this on. Richard, is this happening? >> The focus of an API reference like the LiveCode Dictionary will always have the language tokens as their primary index. This can (and arguably should) be augmented with tags to support searching for strings conceptually related but not found in the token itself or its description. I believe that's been put into place for the future, but regrettably not available in the current shipping product v7. >> >> Task-driven documentation is traditionally the domain of things like "Cookbooks". That format allows for the exploration of related concepts in a more detailed way that would be clumsy or even distracting in a Dictionary. IIRC LiveCode 1.0 had Cookbook, but I'm not sure when it was dropped. >> >> To answer your question about the Community Documentation Team, over the last year the core team at LiveCode Ltd. has been migrating all documentation content into Github markdown so that it can not only be more easily edited but also reviewed, merged, and compiled into the product build more easily as well. >> >> Peter Brett at LiveCode Ltd. has taken on the role of stewarding community engagement projects like this one, and the process of migrating the content to markdown is now far enough along that my next meeting with Dr. Brett will focus on conveying the dynamics of the workflow so we can get to work. >> >> The scope defined for the moment, however, is to update existing docs. >> >> If there's a desire for a Cookbook I would encourage the community to consider establishing a wiki for that. Indeed, there is one at wikia.com which may be a good starting point: >> >> >> To help guide such an effort, let me ask you a question related to the CreateIt course you mentioned: >> >> You've been using LiveCode for many years, and have made some substantial software with it. At this point in your work, what topics would you find most valuable? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> LiveCode Community Manager >> richard at livecode.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 22:10:57 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:10:57 +0800 Subject: The 1001 Things To Do With LiveCode All Time Top Ten Message-ID: <3665CC44-C486-4934-B4D6-7A996748A683@gmail.com> Even though I haven?t been able to spend much time on 1001 Things To Do With LiveCode recently, the blog is still getting an average of 80 visitors per day. I thought you might like to see the all-time top 10 pages visited. 3579 Create a URL shortening service by John Craig 1004 Code an App store accepted game in a week by Dave Probert 864 Administer SQLite databases by Peter Haworth 587 Exercise your right brain by Andrew Walters 542 Program your watch by Roger Eller 336 Manage a database of images by Roger Eller 312 Create you own virtual instrument by Ren? Micout 279 Build mobile games by Andre Garcia 277 Team organisation and time tracking by Roberto Trevisan 242 Build an assembly language interpreter by Andre Garcia The more recent entries in the blog have a high percentage of commercially available apps written in LiveCode and few very own-use or hobby apps. The original purpose of the blog was to show people who had never programmed before what could be achieved with LiveCode and to stimulate their imagination as to what they could do with LiveCode. If you have used LiveCode to write an app for your own use or for your hobby perhaps you would be kind enough to send me a screenshot and a short description. I will try to find the time to add it to 1001 Things You Can Do With LiveCode. Regards Peter From dunbarx at aol.com Sun Oct 11 22:26:54 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 22:26:54 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15059df3e9c-308c-3761e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> Richard, How about this, given a comma delimited list (say "1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,6,7,8,9") in a field 1, with a "5" as your index? on mouseUp answer findItemLessThanIndex(fld 1,"5") end mouseUp function findItemLessThanIndex tData,tIndex put comma & tIndex after tData sort items of tData numeric return item itemOffset("5",tData) -1 of tData end findItemLessThanIndex -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Hawkins To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sun, Oct 11, 2015 12:16 pm Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value It would be nice to have an intrinsic for this, but I just read the entire function list . . . I need to find the largest number in a list which is smaller than a specified value. e.g., for the list "1,3,4,7,9" and 5, the largest such value would be 4. In a spreadsheet, I could use use vlookup() and specified the index as the row to return. In a database, could " SELECT MAX(myVar) WHERE myVar<5;", and so forth I had thought that FILTER could take a]b arbitrary function, but apparently not. t It could conceivably use a rgexp, but calling a regex for numeric comparison "ugly" would be polite I'm not seeing anyhing better than lo better than looping through at the moment -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 22:26:53 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 22:26:53 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <122D2FFD-1573-49D0-AA2A-016C36931124@gmail.com> function getMaxLessThan tList,maxVal repeat for each item i in tList if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList end repeat return max(item 1 to -1 of outList) end getMaxLessThan Simple and fast. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Oct 11, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > It would be nice to have an intrinsic for this, but I just read the entire > function list . . . > > I need to find the largest number in a list which is smaller than a > specified value. > > e.g., for the list "1,3,4,7,9" and 5, the largest such value would be 4. > > In a spreadsheet, I could use use vlookup() and specified the index as the > row to return. > > In a database, could " SELECT MAX(myVar) WHERE myVar<5;", and so forth > > I had thought that FILTER could take a]b arbitrary function, but > apparently not. t It could conceivably use a rgexp, but calling a regex for > numeric comparison "ugly" would be polite > > I'm not seeing anyhing better than lo better than looping through at the > moment > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 11 22:31:56 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:31:56 +1100 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price Message-ID: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> Hi LiveCoders Today I am releasing a huge update to mergExt Complete and announcing a special price available for the rest of the month. mergBLE 1.0 - CoreBluetooth external for iOS and OS X. Use BLE between Mac and iOS or between iOS devices or between some of the great sensors available and your app. For the arduino hackers out there you will love pairing this external with the ReadBearLab BLE shield. Control anything from your Mac or iOS device!!! (Also sold separately for $49). mergGoogle 1.0 - This external for iOS and OS X currently implements google spreadsheets. (Also sold separately for $49). mergMK 3.0 - This update to mergMK supports querying directions between locations. iOS 9 support - all the mergExt externals have now been updated for iOS 9 support. The mergExt Complete bundle now weighs in at a hefty $1038 worth of individual products for only $299. Yes that?s right folks. We?ve cracked the ton! Special Price: 3 years of access to mergExt Complete for $499. That?s a huge $398 saving folks. Use this link to access the special deal http://mergext.com/special/ The first 5 people taking advantage of the special price will also get an additional 6 months at no extra charge. Get it while it?s hot!!! Cheers Monte -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Oct 11 22:50:21 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 22:50:21 -0400 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Might I just say that we've had mergGoogle running for a month or two, and it's just another great tool that makes LC a great tool. On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Monte Goulding < monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > Hi LiveCoders > > Today I am releasing a huge update to mergExt Complete and announcing a > special price available for the rest of the month. > > mergBLE 1.0 - CoreBluetooth external for iOS and OS X. Use BLE between Mac > and iOS or between iOS devices or between some of the great sensors > available and your app. For the arduino hackers out there you will love > pairing this external with the ReadBearLab BLE shield. Control anything > from your Mac or iOS device!!! (Also sold separately for $49). > > mergGoogle 1.0 - This external for iOS and OS X currently implements > google spreadsheets. (Also sold separately for $49). > > mergMK 3.0 - This update to mergMK supports querying directions between > locations. > > iOS 9 support - all the mergExt externals have now been updated for iOS 9 > support. > > The mergExt Complete bundle now weighs in at a hefty $1038 worth of > individual products for only $299. Yes that?s right folks. We?ve cracked > the ton! > > Special Price: 3 years of access to mergExt Complete for $499. That?s a > huge $398 saving folks. Use this link to access the special deal > http://mergext.com/special/ The first 5 > people taking advantage of the special price will also get an additional 6 > months at no extra charge. Get it while it?s hot!!! > > Cheers > > Monte > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From peterwawood at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 23:42:48 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:42:48 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor Message-ID: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> I decided to convert a small card-based database stack to a ?proper? database using SQLite. I immediately missed the next/previous card navigation features which were ideal for browsing the small database. LiveCode chunking is great for handling lists but, as far as I can tell, is missing forward and backward navigation through lists. I decided to write a few simple functions to come up with such a mechanism. I suspect that there may be an existing way to navigate forwards and backwards through a list but I just can?t find it. I?ve put together a very simple, completely unoptimised start of a LiveCode list processing library. It contains only a handful of functions. You can find it at https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-ListProcessor . Perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know of existing ways to achieve what this small library does before I spent more time developing it? Regards Peter From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 12 00:06:46 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 23:06:46 -0500 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <15059df3e9c-308c-3761e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> References: <15059df3e9c-308c-3761e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <561B31D6.4070100@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/11/2015 9:26 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > function findItemLessThanIndex tData,tIndex > put comma & tIndex after tData > sort items of tData numeric > return item itemOffset("5",tData) -1 of tData > end findItemLessThanIndex I thought of that too, but it fails if tIndex isn't in the list. The example list was: "1,3,4,7,9" and the target limit was 5. I couldn't see a way that avoids looping through all the values. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From heather at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 04:35:51 2015 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:35:51 +0100 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> References: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6CFEAA27-CE24-4D2B-B103-2DD06038DA9B@livecode.com> Folks...an awful lot of this "cookbook" type material is available at http://lessons.runrev.com There is a comments facility, and when this was originally set up we invited community contributions. A number of people did contribute but for some considerable time now the only contributions have been from our staff. If anyone is really keen to contribute here I'm sure it could be arranged. Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 11 Oct 2015, at 22:38, Michael Doub wrote: > > Would it be reasonable to ask Livecode to host a wiki site for documentation and examples? I kind of like the idea of having the ability to add information or update when I see something that it out of date or unclear. > > The problem is always organization and searching. This would still need to be dealt with, but the wiki idea lets the community contribute and edit. > > Sorry if this is out of context. I am just catching back up on email. > > -= Mike > > > On 10/11/15 1:34 PM, William Prothero wrote: >> Richard: >> Thanks for the info. I think a task-driven cookbook does really need to be community developed. There are so many emails here that ask ?how do I do xyz?? or ?xyz won?t work? why?? Compiling these, with dates and keywords, and a user commenting facility, would go a long way toward accomplishing this. If there was a web site where users could make these contributions and a reviewer of some sort could edit them prior to inclusion in the ?master cookbook?, that might work. >> >> For me, my main frustration is getting an app onto iPhone. There is a tutorial on the livecode site, which helped me a lot. Later, after I forgot its details, I tried to make a new iOS app and got burned by the provisioning profile, which I tried to make generic, but LC wouldn?t accept a generic one. When I went back to the original tutorial, I got it working, but it took me more than a day to get there. So, I dread my next try at iOS. Also, getting an Apple certificate is another hurdle and I haven?t accomplished that yet, as I?ve been tryin got use AppWrapper 3 and it won?t work. Some kind of cookbook, that could be updated as Apple adds new hurdles and requirements, would be marvelous. >> >> I have a ?Notebook? app that has the following headings. The headings I use currently are shown below. There are sub-headings with specific code and for different applications. It is just a collection, saved from the email list over the last two years for my own use and not refined for mass distribution. >> >> Array handling >> Behaviors >> Calling handlers, out of path hierarchy >> CEF Browser >> Code signing >> Color-mouse-at loc >> Date >> DataGrid >> Debugger use and tricks >> Detect if app is running and user is "on" it. >> DNS mysteries >> Drag and Drop >> Email thru livecode server >> Encryption >> Fields, text display >> Files and directories >> Find out if some program is running >> Get Mac camera image >> Get Version in iOS >> Graphic effects >> Groups >> Images >> iOS mobile stuff >> Learning materials links >> Memory monitoring >> MobGui >> Mobile Copying stacks and using them as libraries >> Number precision >> PHP and databases >> Playing sound in SA and Mobile >> Playing sounds >> Printing >> Product version from script >> Scientific notation converter >> Screen scaling issues >> SnapShots >> Scrolling >> Server stuff >> Sorting >> Sockets >> SSH Tunneling >> Ssh and secure transfer >> Stacks and substacks >> Text Code: Parsing Delimited >> Text-Rotating >> Text to speech >> Text >> Time Zone Info >> User function names-getting them from scripts >> Video >> Widgets >> >> Best, >> Bill >> >>> On Oct 10, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>> William Prothero wrote: >>> >>>> I said we need a dictionary focussed on tasks, not on commands, >>>> but obviously we need both. I know Richard has been leading a >>>> group taking this on. Richard, is this happening? >>> The focus of an API reference like the LiveCode Dictionary will always have the language tokens as their primary index. This can (and arguably should) be augmented with tags to support searching for strings conceptually related but not found in the token itself or its description. I believe that's been put into place for the future, but regrettably not available in the current shipping product v7. >>> >>> Task-driven documentation is traditionally the domain of things like "Cookbooks". That format allows for the exploration of related concepts in a more detailed way that would be clumsy or even distracting in a Dictionary. IIRC LiveCode 1.0 had Cookbook, but I'm not sure when it was dropped. >>> >>> To answer your question about the Community Documentation Team, over the last year the core team at LiveCode Ltd. has been migrating all documentation content into Github markdown so that it can not only be more easily edited but also reviewed, merged, and compiled into the product build more easily as well. >>> >>> Peter Brett at LiveCode Ltd. has taken on the role of stewarding community engagement projects like this one, and the process of migrating the content to markdown is now far enough along that my next meeting with Dr. Brett will focus on conveying the dynamics of the workflow so we can get to work. >>> >>> The scope defined for the moment, however, is to update existing docs. >>> >>> If there's a desire for a Cookbook I would encourage the community to consider establishing a wiki for that. Indeed, there is one at wikia.com which may be a good starting point: >>> >>> >>> To help guide such an effort, let me ask you a question related to the CreateIt course you mentioned: >>> >>> You've been using LiveCode for many years, and have made some substantial software with it. At this point in your work, what topics would you find most valuable? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> LiveCode Community Manager >>> richard at livecode.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 04:55:17 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:55:17 +0100 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <122D2FFD-1573-49D0-AA2A-016C36931124@gmail.com> References: <122D2FFD-1573-49D0-AA2A-016C36931124@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561B7575.5030206@livecode.com> On 12/10/2015 03:26, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > function getMaxLessThan tList,maxVal > repeat for each item i in tList > if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList > end repeat > return max(item 1 to -1 of outList) > end getMaxLessThan This should be slightly faster, because it only loops over the items once: function getMaxLessThan pList, pLimit local tMaxFound, tItem put empty into tMaxFound repeat for each item tItem in tList if tItem < pLimit and \ (tItem > tMaxFound or tMaxFound is empty) then put tItem into tMaxFound end if end repeat return tMaxFound end getMaxLessThan The "sort"-based solution will be much less efficient for long input lists because sorting is O(N*log(N)), whereas Peter Brigham's and my solutions are O(N). Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 05:06:06 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:06:06 +0100 Subject: [Ann] This Week in LiveCode 4 Message-ID: <561B77FE.80802@livecode.com> Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #4 here: https://goo.gl/Rd5Tk1 This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Oct 12 05:07:31 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:07:31 +0200 Subject: AW: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? In-Reply-To: <56182A8C.4000801@pdslabs.net> References: <006d01d10290$c1e65920$45b30b60$@kestner.de> <56182A8C.4000801@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <003a01d104cd$6d8fea50$48afbef0$@kestner.de> Developing on Windows, I wasn't aware that the behavior on Mac is just like I wanted it to be. I was just thinking much to complicated. With some more tweaks with the formattedWidth getting from the longest line of the text and handling the icons of the button I followed your nice script Phil. Thanks Jacqueline and Phil Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Phil Davis Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2015 22:59 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: How to access the text of an option btn before menuPick? Hi Tiemo, On a Mac, the option button list is shown at the full width of the text it contains. I haven't tried it on other platforms. If it doesn't work that way on your platform, you could do something like this (in the button script): local sOriginalRect on menuPick pItemName restoreMe answer pItemName end menuPick on mouseDown if sOriginalRect is empty then put the rect of me into sOriginalRect put sOriginalRect into tRect put (item 1 of tRect + the formattedWidth of me) into item 3 of tRect set the rect of me to tRect end mouseDown on mouseLeave restoreMe end mouseLeave command restoreMe lock screen set the rect of me to sOriginalRect unlock screen end restoreMe Hope this helps - Phil Davis On 10/9/15 5:48 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > I have an option button with long text lines as options, but the button > itself is smaller (width) as the text lines (because of layout > restrictions), so that you can't read the full text of the options. > > Now I would like to find any solution to show the user the full content of > the text lines before he clicks any choice. Either by hovering or right > click or anything else I would like to put the line into the tooltip or > anything else. By now I failed to grab the hilitedLine of the option menu. > > Any idea how to access the text by hovering or right click? > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Mon Oct 12 07:54:08 2015 From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:54:08 +0200 Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter Message-ID: Can someone confirm (or not) that when setting the fontname for a text input control on mobile, that we have to use the Postscript name of the font? e.g. mobileControlSet controlID, ?fontname?, FontPostscriptName I had somehow thought this was being handled automatically for us, but if it?s not, anyone come up with a good way of handling it (other than just keeping our own mapping table for font names in our app)? LC 6.7.6 cheers Alan -- Alan Stenhouse alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Check out our apps on the App Store: BeatSpeak - the multilingual talking metronome EV-Point - Find your nearest Electric Vehicle Recharge Station. Re-Collections - Make your family history come to life. Every picture tells your story. From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Mon Oct 12 08:50:58 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:50:58 +0100 Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: mmm... just tried in with iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "helvetica" iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "american typewriter" and it works, in the simulator, anyway... > From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com > Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:54:08 +0200 > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Can someone confirm (or not) that when setting the fontname for a text input control on mobile, that we have to use the Postscript name of the font? > > e.g. > mobileControlSet controlID, ?fontname?, FontPostscriptName > > I had somehow thought this was being handled automatically for us, but if it?s not, anyone come up with a good way of handling it (other than just keeping our own mapping table for font names in our app)? > > LC 6.7.6 > > cheers > > Alan > -- > Alan Stenhouse > alanstenhouse at hotmail.com > > Check out our apps on the App Store: > > BeatSpeak - the multilingual talking metronome > EV-Point - Find your nearest Electric Vehicle Recharge Station. > Re-Collections - Make your family history come to life. Every picture tells your story. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Oct 12 09:35:04 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:35:04 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561B31D6.4070100@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1505c42f9e6-4ecb-79e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> Jacque, My gadget adds the index in a parameter to the function. if it already exists in the list, the addition is superfluous, but harmless. Craig -----Original Message----- From: J. Landman Gay To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 12:07 am Subject: Re: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value On 10/11/2015 9:26 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > function findItemLessThanIndex tData,tIndex > put comma & tIndex after tData > sort items of tData numeric > return item itemOffset("5",tData) -1 of tData > end findItemLessThanIndex I thought of that too, but it fails if tIndex isn't in the list. The example list was: "1,3,4,7,9" and the target limit was 5. I couldn't see a way that avoids looping through all the values. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Oct 12 10:02:47 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:02:47 -0400 Subject: help changing the From address when sending email In-Reply-To: <15052ebef97-4caa-3633c@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> References: <15052ebef97-4caa-3633c@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <001801d104f6$aca363b0$05ea2b10$@net> I thought sending email was an easy thing. It turns out in this spam/virus world we live it gets more complicated. First of all sending messages with a "from" other than your on-rev master address is technically "spoofing". This is done legitimately all the time with consultants running a server process on behalf of their customers. There are several things one can do to prevent spam filters from having heart failure. 1) Put a "mailfrom:ACCOUNTNAME at SERVERNAME.on-rev.com" in the email header. This give spam filters a valid path back to the on-rev server. ACCOUNTNAME = master on-rev email address(login username) SERVERNAME = Server name (i.e. diesel, thor....) 2) Put a "from:SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com" in the email header. SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com = is the email address you want the recipient to see. It should be a valid email. 3) put a "Message-Id: " in the email header. UNIQUE-ID = I use the LC uuid 4) put a "Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:48:57 +0200" in the email header. LC Example: ("Date:" && the internet date) 5) put a "Subject: MY SUBJECT" in the email header. 5) If the email is html then also include a text version also. Not including a text version will up your spam score. 6) A short email body will up your spam score. 7) Non https images or links will up your spam score. 8) add a spf txt record to your DNS. This is not a show stopper. See https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-an-spf-record-to -prevent-spoofing-improve-e-mail-reliability for example. I am not vouching for this site it's just an example. Do a "spf txt record examples" search for more information. There are on-line tools to test your spam score. Paste in the email(including headers) and see your score. Before I did all this my X-AntiAbuse spam score was 12 out of 10. All my email was flagged as spam. By doing the above steps (sans the spf thingy) I lowered it to -0.3 I am not an email expert and I'm sure this score could be lowered even more with more header tweaking but this get my emails delivered and not put into junk mail folders. I have done some major re-working of the example sendmail script. Let me know if you would like me to send you my updated version. You may have to change a few things to make it your own. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:03 PM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Subject: help changing the From address when sending email I'm creating an app that needs to send an email to the user. I've gone through the lesson about sending email through LiveCode Server here http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4070/l/8184-sending-emails-from-livecode-server- scripts and I get the email to send but no matter what I seem to do, I can't get the "from" address to be anything but my server account email. Is there something I'm missing? I've tried it using a variable and also just putting a straight email address in but I can't get it to change. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Oct 12 10:24:52 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:24:52 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561B7575.5030206@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1505c7090d5-4ecb-a28@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> I made a test between the "sort" method and the "repeat for each". For a list of about 100,000 items, sort finds the max value in 33 ticks, and "repeat" takes 50 ticks. This seems logical to me, since lower level operations are used in "sort" as opposed to "repeat" even though we all know how fast "repeat for each" is. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Peter TB Brett To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 4:55 am Subject: Re: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value On 12/10/2015 03:26, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > function getMaxLessThan tList,maxVal > repeat for each item i in tList > if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList > end repeat > return max(item 1 to -1 of outList) > end getMaxLessThan This should be slightly faster, because it only loops over the items once: function getMaxLessThan pList, pLimit local tMaxFound, tItem put empty into tMaxFound repeat for each item tItem in tList if tItem < pLimit and \ (tItem > tMaxFound or tMaxFound is empty) then put tItem into tMaxFound end if end repeat return tMaxFound end getMaxLessThan The "sort"-based solution will be much less efficient for long input lists because sorting is O(N*log(N)), whereas Peter Brigham's and my solutions are O(N). Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 11:23:04 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:23:04 +0100 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1505c7090d5-4ecb-a28@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> References: <1505c7090d5-4ecb-a28@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <561BD058.40408@livecode.com> On 12/10/2015 15:24, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > I made a test between the "sort" method and the "repeat for each". For a list of about 100,000 items, sort finds the max value in 33 ticks, and "repeat" takes 50 ticks. > > This seems logical to me, since lower level operations are used in "sort" as opposed to "repeat" even though we all know how fast "repeat for each" is. > That's really surprising! Could you please share your test stack so I can have a play? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 12 11:26:14 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:26:14 -0500 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1505c42f9e6-4ecb-79e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> References: <1505c42f9e6-4ecb-79e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <15C93671-4785-4B6A-AC92-CDF00E0DC61A@hyperactivesw.com> Oops, I missed that. You're right. On October 12, 2015 8:35:04 AM CDT, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >Jacque, > > >My gadget adds the index in a parameter to the function. if it already >exists in the list, the addition is superfluous, but harmless. > > >Craig > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: J. Landman Gay >To: How to use LiveCode >Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 12:07 am >Subject: Re: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to >a value > > >On 10/11/2015 9:26 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >> function findItemLessThanIndex >tData,tIndex >> put comma & tIndex after tData >> sort items of tData >numeric >> return item itemOffset("5",tData) -1 of tData >> end >findItemLessThanIndex > >I thought of that too, but it fails if tIndex isn't in >the list. The >example list was: "1,3,4,7,9" and the target limit was 5. > >I >couldn't see a way that avoids looping through all the values. > >-- > >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >HyperActive >Software | >http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode >mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, >unsubscribe and manage your subscription >preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 11:27:10 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:27:10 +0100 Subject: 64 bit Mac OS X support Message-ID: <561BD14E.1030302@livecode.com> Hi all, I thought you might like to know that Fraser's made a start on getting LiveCode working on 64-bit Mac, and the first set of changes have already been merged into LiveCode 8. https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3036 I'm think Fraser will be making some more progress updates over the next few weeks. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 12 11:29:26 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:29:26 +0000 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> References: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <10E662C9-AACB-4AF8-A944-F327A651CB23@iotecdigital.com> What I do is load all (or blocks) of the data all at once, put it into a data grid, then navigate through the records in the data grid. I trap selectionChanged in the datagrid to populate the detail fields on the form. I have an edit bar for creating new, editing existing and deleting existing records. I also have a search object for finding records in a table and displaying them in a datagrid. By setting some constants in the search object's input field it can be used with any table and data grid. Navigation is now accomplished by the user simply arrowing down or up in the data grid, or scrolling down, sorting columns etc., or usign the search bar. Trouble is, I develop almost exclusively for sqlYoga but it would not be difficult to refactor it for use with any database. Bob S > On Oct 11, 2015, at 20:42 , Peter W A Wood wrote: > > I decided to convert a small card-based database stack to a ?proper? database using SQLite. I immediately missed the next/previous card navigation features which were ideal for browsing the small database. > > LiveCode chunking is great for handling lists but, as far as I can tell, is missing forward and backward navigation through lists. I decided to write a few simple functions to come up with such a mechanism. > > I suspect that there may be an existing way to navigate forwards and backwards through a list but I just can?t find it. I?ve put together a very simple, completely unoptimised start of a LiveCode list processing library. It contains only a handful of functions. You can find it at https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-ListProcessor . > > Perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know of existing ways to achieve what this small library does before I spent more time developing it? > > Regards > > Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gbojsza at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 11:43:09 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:43:09 -0400 Subject: LC Extension Builder won't compile? Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to install the widgets that Trevor posted on his Github. I am on LC 8.0 (DP4) Indy The following is the error messages when I use the extension builder and run Test Error: Could not compile module /Users/livecode-extension-master/widget_helpers I would like to install the tabbed widget Trevor made and it looks like it requires widget helpers module to be installed first? Does anybody have the steps necessary to install Trevor's widgets? Is there additional environment settings that need to be done beyond just the standard LC install? thanks, Glen From gbojsza at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 11:49:48 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:49:48 -0400 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It has been two weeks and I still haven't seen a response? On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: > Yes, noted thanks. We?ll have an announcement on this in the coming weeks. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > > > On 29/09/2015 14:07, "use-livecode on behalf of Glen Bojsza" > > wrote: > > >I would assume that the Livecode team is already aware of this and has a > >delivery plan without it they wouldn't be able to claim to be able to make > >iOS apps. > > > >True? Not True? > > > >Kevin can maybe comment. > > > >On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Malte Brill > >wrote: > > > >> Well, I just stumbled upon this: > >> > >> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a < > >> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a> > >> > >> this might get serious even earlier than I thought? > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Malte > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Oct 12 12:03:20 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:03:20 -0700 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 11, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > Today I am releasing a huge update to mergExt Complete and announcing a special price available for the rest of the month. This a most excellent announcement Monte. Thank you for this. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for LiveCode developers: livecloud.io From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Oct 12 12:08:41 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:08:41 -0700 Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: AFAIK, you do need to use the Postscript name, and the names are case sensitive. Also, the FontMap addition to the standalone builder allows you to define how a custom installed font name used in your stack maps to the font name on a device. And I may be mistaken but I believe the LiveCode folks have taken care of the default font mappings already (I believe Mark W commented on this some time back). Not sure if this was introduced after 6.7.6 however. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:50 AM, John Dixon wrote: > > mmm... > > just tried in with > > iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "helvetica" > iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "american typewriter" > > and it works, in the simulator, anyway... > >> From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com >> Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter >> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:54:08 +0200 >> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Can someone confirm (or not) that when setting the fontname for a text input control on mobile, that we have to use the Postscript name of the font? >> >> e.g. >> mobileControlSet controlID, ?fontname?, FontPostscriptName >> >> I had somehow thought this was being handled automatically for us, but if it?s not, anyone come up with a good way of handling it (other than just keeping our own mapping table for font names in our app)? >> >> LC 6.7.6 >> >> cheers >> >> Alan >> -- >> Alan Stenhouse >> alanstenhouse at hotmail.com >> >> Check out our apps on the App Store: >> >> BeatSpeak - the multilingual talking metronome >> EV-Point - Find your nearest Electric Vehicle Recharge Station. >> Re-Collections - Make your family history come to life. Every picture tells your story. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From iowahengst at mac.com Mon Oct 12 12:26:44 2015 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:26:44 -0500 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <15C93671-4785-4B6A-AC92-CDF00E0DC61A@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1505c42f9e6-4ecb-79e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> <15C93671-4785-4B6A-AC92-CDF00E0DC61A@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I realize this isn?t written as a function, but what about doing the sort first? on getMaxLessThan tList,maxVal sort items of tList descending repeat for each item theDigitToCheck in tList if theDigitToCheck < maxVal then answer "found it" && theDigitToCheck exit repeat end if end repeat end getMaxLessThan be well, randy Randy Hengst www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > On Oct 12, 2015, at 10:26 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Oops, I missed that. You're right. > > On October 12, 2015 8:35:04 AM CDT, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >> Jacque, >> >> >> My gadget adds the index in a parameter to the function. if it already >> exists in the list, the addition is superfluous, but harmless. >> >> >> Craig >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: J. Landman Gay >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 12:07 am >> Subject: Re: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to >> a value >> >> >> On 10/11/2015 9:26 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >>> function findItemLessThanIndex >> tData,tIndex >>> put comma & tIndex after tData >>> sort items of tData >> numeric >>> return item itemOffset("5",tData) -1 of tData >>> end >> findItemLessThanIndex >> >> I thought of that too, but it fails if tIndex isn't in >> the list. The >> example list was: "1,3,4,7,9" and the target limit was 5. >> >> I >> couldn't see a way that avoids looping through all the values. >> >> -- >> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive >> Software | >> http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode >> mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, >> unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 12:41:36 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:41:36 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> References: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561BE2C0.7080108@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: > LiveCode chunking is great for handling lists but, as far as I > can tell, is missing forward and backward navigation through > lists. I decided to write a few simple functions to come up > with such a mechanism. > > I suspect that there may be an existing way to navigate forwards > and backwards through a list but I just can?t find it. I?ve put > together a very simple, completely unoptimised start of a LiveCode > list processing library. It contains only a handful of functions. > You can find it at https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode- >ListProcessor . > > Perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know of existing ways to > achieve what this small library does before I spent more time > developing it? That looks like Builder rather than Script, no? Is there something specific to Builder that the library needs? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Oct 12 12:48:11 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 12:48:11 -0400 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: What is mergGoogle, and of all things I would expect to work on Android, based on the name, this would be one. So, is this available for the Android platform? TIA On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Might I just say that we've had mergGoogle running for a month or two, and > it's just another great tool that makes LC a great tool. > > On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Monte Goulding < > monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > > Hi LiveCoders > > > > Today I am releasing a huge update to mergExt Complete and announcing a > > special price available for the rest of the month. > > > > mergBLE 1.0 - CoreBluetooth external for iOS and OS X. Use BLE between > Mac > > and iOS or between iOS devices or between some of the great sensors > > available and your app. For the arduino hackers out there you will love > > pairing this external with the ReadBearLab BLE shield. Control anything > > from your Mac or iOS device!!! (Also sold separately for $49). > > > > mergGoogle 1.0 - This external for iOS and OS X currently implements > > google spreadsheets. (Also sold separately for $49). > > > > mergMK 3.0 - This update to mergMK supports querying directions between > > locations. > > > > iOS 9 support - all the mergExt externals have now been updated for iOS 9 > > support. > > > > The mergExt Complete bundle now weighs in at a hefty $1038 worth of > > individual products for only $299. Yes that?s right folks. We?ve cracked > > the ton! > > > > Special Price: 3 years of access to mergExt Complete for $499. That?s a > > huge $398 saving folks. Use this link to access the special deal > > http://mergext.com/special/ The first 5 > > people taking advantage of the special price will also get an additional > 6 > > months at no extra charge. Get it while it?s hot!!! > > > > Cheers > > > > Monte > > > > -- > > M E R Goulding > > Software development services > > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 12:54:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:54:53 -0700 Subject: help changing the From address when sending email In-Reply-To: <001801d104f6$aca363b0$05ea2b10$@net> References: <001801d104f6$aca363b0$05ea2b10$@net> Message-ID: <561BE5DD.4040700@fourthworld.com> I don't know if this will help the OP's situation, but here I have a number of apps that need to send email notifications, and some of them are running on systems that have no email server installed. Most of these are for server monitoring so I'm the only recipient, but maybe the general idea may be useful: I set up a CGI on one system that I want the emails to be sent from (which happens to also be written in LC, but it could be Perl, PHP, Python, bash, etc.) which accepts a recipient address, subject, and body, along with an obscure hash used for authentication, and puts those together to send the email from there. The CGI itself is named very obscurely (e.g. something like "gfdRRth88ewLYKss.cgi"), so it's unlikely to be guessed by any spiders. And even if it were, anyone attempting to use the CGI for spamming would also need to figure out the hash inputs, and there are enough zombied Win installs that there are easier ways to hijack machines; this one just isn't worth the effort :) Not bullet-proof (nothing is), but reasonably secure and super-easy to use. Now I have a single location for notifications that I can use from any client or server process that needs to send email, without even needing to have an email server installed. Sending notifications is a one-liner anywhere I need 'em. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Ralph DiMola wrote: > I thought sending email was an easy thing. It turns out in this spam/virus > world we live it gets more complicated. > > First of all sending messages with a "from" other than your on-rev master > address is technically "spoofing". This is done legitimately all the time > with consultants running a server process on behalf of their customers. > There are several things one can do to prevent spam filters from having > heart failure. > > 1) Put a "mailfrom:ACCOUNTNAME at SERVERNAME.on-rev.com" in the email header. > This give spam filters a valid path back to the on-rev server. > ACCOUNTNAME = master on-rev email address(login username) > SERVERNAME = Server name (i.e. diesel, thor....) > > 2) Put a "from:SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com" in the email header. > SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com = is the email address you want the recipient > to see. It should be a valid email. > > 3) put a "Message-Id: " in the email header. > UNIQUE-ID = I use the LC uuid > > 4) put a "Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:48:57 +0200" in the email header. LC > Example: ("Date:" && the internet date) > > 5) put a "Subject: MY SUBJECT" in the email header. > > 5) If the email is html then also include a text version also. Not including > a text version will up your spam score. > > 6) A short email body will up your spam score. > > 7) Non https images or links will up your spam score. > > 8) add a spf txt record to your DNS. This is not a show stopper. See > https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-an-spf-record-to > -prevent-spoofing-improve-e-mail-reliability for example. I am not vouching > for this site it's just an example. Do a "spf txt record examples" search > for more information. > > There are on-line tools to test your spam score. Paste in the > email(including headers) and see your score. > > Before I did all this my X-AntiAbuse spam score was 12 out of 10. All my > email was flagged as spam. By doing the above steps (sans the spf thingy) I > lowered it to -0.3 > > I am not an email expert and I'm sure this score could be lowered even more > with more header tweaking but this get my emails delivered and not put into > junk mail folders. > > I have done some major re-working of the example sendmail script. Let me > know if you would like me to send you my updated version. You may have to > change a few things to make it your own. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Theresa > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:03 PM > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: help changing the From address when sending email > > > > I'm creating an app that needs to send an email to the user. I've gone > through the lesson about sending email through LiveCode Server here > http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4070/l/8184-sending-emails-from-livecode-server- > scripts > and I get the email to send but no matter what I seem to do, I can't get the > "from" address to be anything but my server account email. Is there > something I'm missing? I've tried it using a variable and also just putting > a straight email address in but I can't get it to change. From jiml at netrin.com Mon Oct 12 13:03:04 2015 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:03:04 -0700 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Monte, mergExt Complete keeps getting better and better. An excellent package! Thanks, Jim Lambert From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 13:05:45 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:05:45 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> References: <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561BE869.4030308@fourthworld.com> Michael Doub wrote: > Would it be reasonable to ask Livecode to host a wiki site for > documentation and examples? I kind of like the idea of having the > ability to add information or update when I see something that it out of > date or unclear. > > The problem is always organization and searching. This would still > need to be dealt with, but the wiki idea lets the community contribute > and edit. Heather's suggestion to use the existing Lessons repository is a good one. And the existing community-based wiki I linked to earlier that MaxV set up is also worth contributing to: Venues aren't hard to come by - our community has many. The hard part is writing content for them. :) -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 13:09:20 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:09:20 -0700 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <933A92EB-84E3-4719-97B7-C958003BE959@gmail.com> References: <933A92EB-84E3-4719-97B7-C958003BE959@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561BE940.90304@fourthworld.com> Thanks Colin and Jacque for those examples. I can see the need to have content in fixed ratios when the content itself is inherently fixed, like movies or full-screen graphics. My own inclination would be to put such content in a group and have that sized and placed along with other controls according to the device itself. But if this presents things to your users in ways that work for you, I certainly appreciate the convenience of setting a property and having the engine do the rest of the work. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Colin Holgate wrote: > Think of any story scene based game, where what you see is not a utility app full of fields and buttons that could be placed using code. You would not want to have to create different artwork for every possible aspect ratio screen. Instead you have extra scenery that gets revealed on wider or taller devices. > > Almost all the apps I?ve made used showall, where either there was extra content to the left and right of the card area (stage area as the case was, not being LiveCode apps), or extra content above and below the card area. Which way I work depends on the nature of the app. For example, in a book like app I want the full height of the page to always be visible, and I reveal spare background to the left and right (this is with landscape by the way). For graphical games I make it be that all devices see the full width of the scene, and on wider aspect ration devices the scene gets cropped at the top and bottom. The essential game play is within a 16:9 center part of the display, and there is extra background to take it up to 4:3 ratio. > > Sometimes I don?t want to eat into so much of either the width or the height, and for those cases I have 14:9 ratio content, and use noborder. On a 4:3 device you see the full height of the scene, and most of the width. On 16:9 devices you see the full width of the scene, and most of the height. It?s a good compromise, and the safety area is the middle 14:9 part of the scene. > > The advantage of all this is that you don?t have to worry about either the screen size or aspect ratio, LiveCode makes your content fill the screen. > > I made these pages to show off the different modes. Choose one of them and then resize the browser window to simulate different aspect ratio devices: > > http://colin.scienceninja.com/showall.html > http://colin.scienceninja.com/noborder.html > http://colin.scienceninja.com/topleftnoscale.html > http://colin.scienceninja.com/noscale.html > http://colin.scienceninja.com/exactfit.html > > The red lines are iPad ratio, green is iPhone 4 ratio, and blue is iPhone 5 ratio. From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Oct 12 13:15:15 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:15:15 -0400 Subject: LC Extension Builder won't compile? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Glen, You should grab DP-7. There have been changed to widgets since DP-4. The widge_helper is available from the GitHub site. You do need to compile that first as the tab control relies on it. -- Trevor DeVore On Monday, October 12, 2015, Glen Bojsza wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to install the widgets that Trevor posted on his Github. > > I am on LC 8.0 (DP4) Indy > > The following is the error messages when I use the extension builder and > run Test > > > Error: Could not compile module > /Users/livecode-extension-master/widget_helpers > > I would like to install the tabbed widget Trevor made and it looks like it > requires widget helpers module to be installed first? > > Does anybody have the steps necessary to install Trevor's widgets? > > Is there additional environment settings that need to be done beyond just > the standard LC install? > > thanks, > > Glen > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 12 13:16:30 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 12:16:30 -0500 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <326E3693-4BF8-4CCA-A2CA-0AA84EE03855@hyperactivesw.com> Isn't this a system setting rather than something LC needs to change? I thought LC just uses whatever the OS is set for. On October 12, 2015 10:49:48 AM CDT, Glen Bojsza wrote: >It has been two weeks and I still haven't seen a response? > > >On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Kevin Miller >wrote: > >> Yes, noted thanks. We?ll have an announcement on this in the coming >weeks. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Kevin >> >> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> >> >> >> >> On 29/09/2015 14:07, "use-livecode on behalf of Glen Bojsza" >> gbojsza at gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >I would assume that the Livecode team is already aware of this and >has a >> >delivery plan without it they wouldn't be able to claim to be able >to make >> >iOS apps. >> > >> >True? Not True? >> > >> >Kevin can maybe comment. >> > >> >On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Malte Brill > >> >wrote: >> > >> >> Well, I just stumbled upon this: >> >> >> >> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a < >> >> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a> >> >> >> >> this might get serious even earlier than I thought? >> >> >> >> All the best, >> >> >> >> Malte >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >> >use-livecode mailing list >> >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >subscription preferences: >> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 13:16:29 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:16:29 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561BEAED.7090000@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-11 08:12, Mark Wieder wrote: >> On 10/10/2015 12:47 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >>> Yes, I've been using them for a long time now and also wonder why they >>> aren't in the dictionary. I think I might have filed a bug report >>> about >>> that a long while ago but don;t remember for sure. >> >> Filed 16189 and 16190. > > They've never been documented because we've never put 'IDE only' > functions in the dictionary - the latter always having been about what > is available to an application you write in the IDE; rather than what is > available to write a tool running in the IDE which helps to write an > application. The savingStandalone and standaloneSaved messages, along with their mobile equivalents, are in the Dictionary. There may be others if I gave it some thought. Plugins and other extensions exist in a folder, and the path to that folder must be known to the IDE in order to use them. Given the value of that information it seems reasonable that a function exists to derive it, and the current name is as good as any. Since the underlying implementation may change, we want to encourage people to use the function, and if documented folks would do so, giving the engine/IDE team all the flexibility they might need to change the implementation at any time while giving developers a function they can use to build useful things. I see nothing but a big pile o' win here for documenting those path functions, and the Dictionary seems a logical place to do it. > I agree, however, that it is important for the tool writers that this > kind of reference be available. +1 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Mon Oct 12 13:12:33 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> OK, I will throw this in for a good measure ----------------------------------------------------- function closestSmallerValue @pList, pMax -- this assumes pList to be sorted ascending AND consisting of numbers -- AND no empty items -- here only testing for SMALLER, not <= put the number of items of pList into tNoItems -- if pMax is > then value of last item of pList if pMax > tNoItems and pMax > item tNoItems of pList then return item tNoItems of pList -- if pMax is smaller then value of first item if pMax <= item 1 of pList then return "error, no smaller value found" -- in case the number of items < pMax but pList contains valid range put min(pMax, tNoItems) into tStartItem -- try sort of a binary search return closeIn(pList,1,tStartItem,pMax) end closestSmallerValue function closeIn @pList pLowerBounds, pUpperBounds, pMax put pUpperBounds - pLowerBounds into tSpan put tSpan div 2 + pLowerBounds into tNewItem put item tNewItem of pList into tNewValue if tNewValue > pMax then put tNewItem into pUpperBounds else put tNewItem into pLowerBounds end if if pUpperBounds - pLowerBounds < 2 then if item pLowerBounds of pList < pMax then return item pLowerBounds of pList else return item pLowerBounds -1 of pList end if else get closeIn (pList, pLowerBounds, pUpperBounds, pMax) end if end closeIn ----------------------------------------------------- BTW, what is a tick? Is that the imperial gallon of time? Or more a pint, a fluid ounce? I do kow that ticks bite and :) No guarantees, did test it though with various lists up to 100000 items, but what the tick... :) My first attempt at something like "binary search" so please be forgiving. Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/function-for-greatest-object-in-list-less-than-or-equal-to-a-value-tp4697221p4697266.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 13:24:26 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:24:26 -0700 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <326E3693-4BF8-4CCA-A2CA-0AA84EE03855@hyperactivesw.com> References: <326E3693-4BF8-4CCA-A2CA-0AA84EE03855@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <561BECCA.1080703@fourthworld.com> Most systems are set up to use both v4 and v6 addressing, but libURL is written exclusively for v4. For most systems today that will continue to work for at least a while longer. But as we've all been advised by IANA for more than a decade, v4 addresses are in short supply and v6 has been the recommended solution. Apple's position with requiring v6 addresses isn't unique; some cloud services are also beginning to make that requirement. Yesterday's tomorrow is today. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > IPV6... > > J. Landman Gay jacque at hyperactivesw.com > Mon Oct 12 19:16:30 CEST 2015 > Previous message: IPV6... > Next message: Release 8.0.0 DP 6 > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > Isn't this a system setting rather than something LC needs to change? I thought LC just uses whatever the OS is set for. > > > On October 12, 2015 10:49:48 AM CDT, Glen Bojsza wrote: >>It has been two weeks and I still haven't seen a response? >> >> >>On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Kevin Miller >>wrote: >> >>> Yes, noted thanks. We?ll have an announcement on this in the coming >>weeks. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 29/09/2015 14:07, "use-livecode on behalf of Glen Bojsza" >>> >gbojsza at gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >I would assume that the Livecode team is already aware of this and >>has a >>> >delivery plan without it they wouldn't be able to claim to be able >>to make >>> >iOS apps. >>> > >>> >True? Not True? >>> > >>> >Kevin can maybe comment. >>> > >>> >On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Malte Brill >> >>> >wrote: >>> > >>> >> Well, I just stumbled upon this: >>> >> >>> >> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a < >>> >> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a> >>> >> >>> >> this might get serious even earlier than I thought? >>> >> >>> >> All the best, >>> >> >>> >> Malte >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> use-livecode mailing list >>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> >> subscription preferences: >>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >use-livecode mailing list >>> >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> >subscription preferences: >>> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Mon Oct 12 13:30:13 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:30:13 +0100 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> References: , <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: wait for 10 ticks -- 1/6 of a second > > No guarantees, did test it though with various lists up to 100000 items, but > what the tick... :) > My first attempt at something like "binary search" so please be forgiving. > > Kind regards > Bernd From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 13:32:42 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:32:42 +0200 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <561BE2C0.7080108@fourthworld.com> References: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> <561BE2C0.7080108@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-12 18:41, Richard Gaskin wrote: > That looks like Builder rather than Script, no? No - this is definitely a LiveCode Script library... It implements a data-type on top of an LCS array very much like the LCB 'List' type. (Such 'proper lists' - aka dense integer numerically-keyed arrays with index starting at 1 - are something we want to add to LCS at some point). Interestingly (although I've not read it in depth) it looks like the type is designed with the idea that you can easily change what is considered to be the 'first' index - i.e. move backward and forward through it. This reminds me of a circular linked list in functionality. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 13:41:12 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:41:12 -0700 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> BNig wrote: > BTW, what is a tick? Is that the imperial gallon of time? Or more a pint, a > fluid ounce? > I do kow that ticks bite and :) In other programming languages a tick is often a counter within some larger timer framework. In HyperTalk it was derived similarly, the default update rate for the early Mac OS vertical retrace subsystem. Throughout HyperTalk's life it was the most granular expression of time the language supported, since millisecond support was introduced to the xTalk world by MetaCard in 1992. The choice of tying the ticks to retrace was perhaps a necessity in early Mac OS systems, relying as they did on preemptive multitasking. But that reliance also made it an inexact quantity: by default the vertical retrace would happen 60 times a second, but it was possible to have some processes run long enough to stall it a bit now and then. But imprecise as it was it was all we had, so we used it. Today both ticks and milliseconds are independent of the display subsystem on all platforms, and generally more reliable. I migrated to milliseconds for benchmarking as soon as I became aware of them in MetaCard, since most routines are fast enough that the finer granularity is often useful. If you need even finer granularity you can use "the long seconds", but with any of them it's helpful to keep in mind the consideration Mark Wieder reminds us of: modern multi-tasking systems can have throughput affected by a great many considerations beyond our control. For this reason all benchmarks should be run multiple times with as few other processes running as practical, and even then their results should be taken with a grain of salt. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 13:46:38 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:46:38 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561BF1FE.3000603@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-12 18:41, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> That looks like Builder rather than Script, no? > > No - this is definitely a LiveCode Script library... It implements a > data-type on top of an LCS array very much like the LCB 'List' type. What threw me was a function with the same name as a LiveCode token ("list"), and the use of question marks are part of some handler names. I've never seen question marks in handler names in any xTalk I've ever used, so I figured perhaps it might be something specific to Builder. If allowable, is it desirable? I suppose it's a matter of taste if it doesn't break anything, but given how uncommon it is I'd wager an API for others to use could benefit from conventions developers might anticipate. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 13:49:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:49:16 -0700 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> References: <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561BF29C.5050805@fourthworld.com> Correction - earlier I wrote: > The choice of tying the ticks to retrace was perhaps a necessity in > early Mac OS systems, relying as they did on preemptive multitasking. That should of course read: > The choice of tying the ticks to retrace was perhaps a necessity in > early Mac OS systems, relying as they did on cooperative multitasking. The switch from cooperative multitasking to modern preemptive multitasking was one of the many welcome advancements NeXT's Unix kernel brought to the Mac world. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Mon Oct 12 13:41:30 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> References: <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1444671690891-4697273.post@n4.nabble.com> Thank you for the explanation Richard. Good to know the historical background of ticks. so for a list of 100000 items the worst case for my code is tMax 100000 to find 99999 it takes about 12 ticks and roughly 190 milliseconds Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/function-for-greatest-object-in-list-less-than-or-equal-to-a-value-tp4697221p4697273.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Oct 12 13:56:14 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:56:14 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561BD058.40408@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1505d3214cc-560e-161f@webprd-a98.mail.aol.com> Peter. All you need is a button: on mouseUp put "1,2,4,3,5,6,7,8,9,34," into temp repeat 16 put temp after temp end repeat put the ticks into xx put "Repeat:" && getMaxLessThan(temp,"5") into repeatResults put " :Ticks:" && the ticks - xx after repeatResults put the ticks into xx put "Sort:" && findItemLessThanIndex(temp,"5") into sortResults put " :Ticks:" && the ticks - xx after sortResults answer repeatResults & return & sortResults end mouseUp function getMaxLessThan tList,maxVal repeat for each item i in tList if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList end repeat return max(item 1 to -1 of outList) end getMaxLessThan function findItemLessThanIndex tData,tIndex put comma & tIndex after tData sort items of tData numeric return item itemOffset("5",tData) -1 of tData end findItemLessThanIndex "Sort" is consistently faster, up to 50%. Why "up to"? Try it several times. As per the other, newer part of this thread, timing based on such things as "ticks" needs to be run many times to get an accurate "average" reading. Other system processes come into play, as well as gremlins. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Peter TB Brett To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 11:23 am Subject: Re: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value On 12/10/2015 15:24, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > I made a test between the "sort" method and the "repeat for each". For a list of about 100,000 items, sort finds the max value in 33 ticks, and "repeat" takes 50 ticks. > > This seems logical to me, since lower level operations are used in "sort" as opposed to "repeat" even though we all know how fast "repeat for each" is. > That's really surprising! Could you please share your test stack so I can have a play? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 13:58:19 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:58:19 +0200 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <561BF1FE.3000603@fourthworld.com> References: <561BF1FE.3000603@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <569aa0096bae5c08f6033b65d474dd44@livecode.com> On 2015-10-12 19:46, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I've never seen question marks in handler names in any xTalk I've ever > used, so I figured perhaps it might be something specific to Builder. It's a standard convention in some languages (Scheme springs to mind) to indicate a 'predicate' - a function which returns true or false. I've seem some LiveCode Script libraries in the past use it - although not very many. > If allowable, is it desirable? I suppose it's a matter of taste if it > doesn't break anything, but given how uncommon it is I'd wager an API > for others to use could benefit from conventions developers might > anticipate. Well the identifier token in LiveCode Script has always been very forgiving. However, in that does lie a problem - it restricts what operators could be added in the future (which is fine as long as the goal of the language is to avoid as many 'symbols' as possible). To be fair '?' poses less of a problem in this regard than '.' - in terms of limiting future options that have been discussed at length in the past ;) Certainly, we (at LiveCode) only use handler names using alphanumeric characters and '_'. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 12 14:01:00 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:01:00 +0000 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <326E3693-4BF8-4CCA-A2CA-0AA84EE03855@hyperactivesw.com> References: <326E3693-4BF8-4CCA-A2CA-0AA84EE03855@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I read the article and was under the impression that iOS 9 would not support IPV4 anymore, but I am running iOS 9 and it is still there. So I am a bit confused here. Is Apple saying that they will no longer accept apps that use IPV4, and if so, is this a pre-cursor to Apple removing IPV4 support altogether, and if so where do the Apple devs get off really? Bob S On Oct 12, 2015, at 10:16 , J. Landman Gay > wrote: Isn't this a system setting rather than something LC needs to change? I thought LC just uses whatever the OS is set for. From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 14:02:09 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:02:09 +0200 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1505d3214cc-560e-161f@webprd-a98.mail.aol.com> References: <1505d3214cc-560e-161f@webprd-a98.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-12 19:56, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > "Sort" is consistently faster, up to 50%. Why "up to"? Try it several > times. As per the other, newer part of this thread, timing based on > such things as "ticks" needs to be run many times to get an accurate > "average" reading. Other system processes come into play, as well as > gremlins. The most interesting question here (from a complexity O(n) vs O(nlog n) point of view at least) is at what length of list does the 'sort' version become slower than the 'repeat' version... Mathematically, there has to be a minimum length of list for which this is true. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 12 14:14:17 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:14:17 +0000 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <561BECCA.1080703@fourthworld.com> References: <326E3693-4BF8-4CCA-A2CA-0AA84EE03855@hyperactivesw.com> <561BECCA.1080703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: We were also advised when I was in high school that an ice age was coming, we would be out of water in ten to fifteen years, the air would be so polluted we would all be wearing gas masks, nothing would grow so we would be eating dirt etc. And while I don't deny there are real problems to consider, nothing ever is as bad as it is originally made out to be. We make the necessary adjustments to prevent our own extinction and then have a beer or two at the end of the day. I find myself wondering why the Tier providers can't simply move all their routers over to use IPV6 exclusively, and leave local area networks the way they are? Maybe I misunderstand, but why does *everyone and everything* have to move to IPV6? Bob S On Oct 12, 2015, at 10:24 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: But as we've all been advised by IANA for more than a decade, v4 addresses are in short supply and v6 has been the recommended solution. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 12 14:21:29 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:21:29 +0000 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> References: <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: That is interesting. I was always under the impression that a tick was always 1/60 of a second. It never occurred to me that this was the standard vertical refresh of the monitors in use at the time. So are you sating that if I had a monitor that refreshed at say 120/sec, that there would then be (roughly) 120 ticks in a second? Also, since processor load can influence real time statistics, but cannot influence the vertical refresh rate, wouldn't ticks then be the more accurate unit of measure? Bob S On Oct 12, 2015, at 10:41 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: The choice of tying the ticks to retrace was perhaps a necessity in early Mac OS systems, relying as they did on preemptive multitasking. But that reliance also made it an inexact quantity: by default the vertical retrace would happen 60 times a second, but it was possible to have some processes run long enough to stall it a bit now and then. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 12 14:23:00 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:23:00 +0000 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: NVM stupid question. I was thinking about the lag older systems would introduce in the actual clock, and lost sight of the problem. Bob S On Oct 12, 2015, at 11:21 , Bob Sneidar > wrote: So are you sating that if I had a monitor that refreshed at say 120/sec, that there would then be (roughly) 120 ticks in a second? Also, since processor load can influence real time statistics, but cannot influence the vertical refresh rate, wouldn't ticks then be the more accurate unit of measure? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 14:34:57 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:34:57 -0700 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561BFD51.5010109@fourthworld.com> There are so many ways climate change and IP address allocation are different it's difficult to tell if you were just having fun, but the simplest and most important is this: With climate change the number of variables in play are so vast that one could quite plausibly suggest it's the single most complex model humans have ever attempted. But the IPv4 address range is a single integer, easily discerned by the scheme. People seem to enjoy debating climate change, but there's not much room for debating the largest value that can be expressed by a four-byte integer. Unless there's some vast conspiracy between IANA, national leaders, device manufacturers, and industry analysts about the growing number of devices in use, any reasonable person can look at the number of devices and the range of possible IPv4 addresses, and quickly appreciate the recommendation from IANA that another larger scheme is needed, and soon. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Bob Sneidar wrote: > We were also advised when I was in high school that an ice age was coming, we would be out of water in ten to fifteen years, the air would be so polluted we would all be wearing gas masks, nothing would grow so we would be eating dirt etc. And while I don't deny there are real problems to consider, nothing ever is as bad as it is originally made out to be. We make the necessary adjustments to prevent our own extinction and then have a beer or two at the end of the day. > > I find myself wondering why the Tier providers can't simply move all their routers over to use IPV6 exclusively, and leave local area networks the way they are? Maybe I misunderstand, but why does *everyone and everything* have to move to IPV6? > > Bob S > > > On Oct 12, 2015, at 10:24 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > But as we've all been advised by IANA for more than a decade, v4 addresses are in short supply and v6 has been the recommended solution. > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 14:39:17 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:39:17 -0700 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561BFE55.2060809@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > On Oct 12, 2015, at 10:41 , Richard Gaskin wrote: >> The choice of tying the ticks to retrace was perhaps a necessity >> in early Mac OS systems, relying as they did on preemptive >> multitasking. But that reliance also made it an inexact quantity: >> by default the vertical retrace would happen 60 times a second, >> but it was possible to have some processes run long enough to >> stall it a bit now and then. > > That is interesting. I was always under the impression that a tick > was always 1/60 of a second. It never occurred to me that this was > the standard vertical refresh of the monitors in use at the time. > > So are you sating that if I had a monitor that refreshed at say > 120/sec, that there would then be (roughly) 120 ticks in a second? But there weren't. Remember, this is ancient history we're talking about, when the only Macs you could buy had a 512x342 monochrome screen built into the machine. > Also, since processor load can influence real time statistics, but > cannot influence the vertical refresh rate, wouldn't ticks then be > the more accurate unit of measure? That's a question better left for systems developers. Here I'm relying only on what I've read, but it seems intuitive enough given that the clock on most mobos has its own chip and even its own battery, and that refresh rates today vary broadly by GPU type, shared load between GPU and on-board, bus variance, etc. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Mon Oct 12 14:44:04 2015 From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:44:04 +0200 Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks John + Scott. So, that doesn?t seem to be any clearer - 2 conflicting reports. I?ve also tried setting it to the display fontname and that works - but only when the postscript name is the same, AFAICS. I was testing on the simulator with iOS 8.2 and on device with iOS 7. The fontmap was (I think) introduced with 6.7 but at least here it?s not used. I guess I should get on and test this with LC7 + LC8? John, what version of LC did you test with? Thanks again Alan On 12 Oct 2015, at 7:16 pm, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > From: Scott Rossi > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > AFAIK, you do need to use the Postscript name, and the names are case sensitive. Also, the FontMap addition to the standalone builder allows you to define how a custom installed font name used in your stack maps to the font name on a device. And I may be mistaken but I believe the LiveCode folks have taken care of the default font mappings already (I believe Mark W commented on this some time back). > > Not sure if this was introduced after 6.7.6 however. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media UX/UI Design > >> On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:50 AM, John Dixon wrote: >> >> mmm... >> >> just tried in with >> >> iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "helvetica" >> iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "american typewriter" >> >> and it works, in the simulator, anyway... From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 12 14:56:27 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:56:27 +0100 Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39682D97-4E3C-4765-A676-7FDF4A2E6443@livecode.com> Hi Alan, Could you file a bug about this? I can't recall off the top of my head whether the fontName property of native controls passes through the fontmap. Warmest Regards, Mark Sent from my iPhone > On 12 Oct 2015, at 19:44, Alan Stenhouse wrote: > > Thanks John + Scott. > > So, that doesn?t seem to be any clearer - 2 conflicting reports. I?ve also tried setting it to the display fontname and that works - but only when the postscript name is the same, AFAICS. > > I was testing on the simulator with iOS 8.2 and on device with iOS 7. > > The fontmap was (I think) introduced with 6.7 but at least here it?s not used. I guess I should get on and test this with LC7 + LC8? > > John, what version of LC did you test with? > > Thanks again > > Alan > >> On 12 Oct 2015, at 7:16 pm, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >> >> From: Scott Rossi >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Subject: Re: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> AFAIK, you do need to use the Postscript name, and the names are case sensitive. Also, the FontMap addition to the standalone builder allows you to define how a custom installed font name used in your stack maps to the font name on a device. And I may be mistaken but I believe the LiveCode folks have taken care of the default font mappings already (I believe Mark W commented on this some time back). >> >> Not sure if this was introduced after 6.7.6 however. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media UX/UI Design >> >>> On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:50 AM, John Dixon wrote: >>> >>> mmm... >>> >>> just tried in with >>> >>> iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "helvetica" >>> iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "american typewriter" >>> >>> and it works, in the simulator, anyway... > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 12 15:31:19 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:31:19 -0500 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <561BE940.90304@fourthworld.com> References: <933A92EB-84E3-4719-97B7-C958003BE959@gmail.com> <561BE940.90304@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561C0A87.5090707@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/12/2015 12:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I can see the need to have content in fixed ratios when the content > itself is inherently fixed, like movies or full-screen graphics. > > My own inclination would be to put such content in a group and have that > sized and placed along with other controls according to the device itself. That's what fullscreenMode does for you, without any scripting (and without necessarily requiring a group.) I don't really rely on fixed ratios the way Colin described. I just leave a margin along the card edges for most of the working parts and it usually is fine. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 12 15:36:01 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:36:01 +0000 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <561BFD51.5010109@fourthworld.com> References: <561BFD51.5010109@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9DDF0355-A1B2-422F-AA41-583E487B9856@iotecdigital.com> My tongue was partially in my cheek, yes. I understand that the diminishing address pool is a problem. What I am unsure about is why it is necessary to have everything everywhere convert to a system which is as complex as the MAC address scheme IPV4 was supposed to alleviate. I can just remember a subnet and a few IPV4 addresses. I can promise you I will *NOT* remember a single IPV6 address. If that is the case, why not just eliminate the whole layer 3 and just use Mac addresses from now on? (Again, tongue in cheek). My point is that I think we can do IPV6 on the WAN side of things whilst maintaining IPV4 on the local side. Which gets back to the question, why is Apple pushing for IPV6 ONLY and the local level? Bob S On Oct 12, 2015, at 11:34 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: There are so many ways climate change and IP address allocation are different it's difficult to tell if you were just having fun, but the simplest and most important is this: With climate change the number of variables in play are so vast that one could quite plausibly suggest it's the single most complex model humans have ever attempted. But the IPv4 address range is a single integer, easily discerned by the scheme. People seem to enjoy debating climate change, but there's not much room for debating the largest value that can be expressed by a four-byte integer. Unless there's some vast conspiracy between IANA, national leaders, device manufacturers, and industry analysts about the growing number of devices in use, any reasonable person can look at the number of devices and the range of possible IPv4 addresses, and quickly appreciate the recommendation from IANA that another larger scheme is needed, and soon. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From colinholgate at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 15:39:36 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:39:36 -0400 Subject: Mouse events outside stack bounds on mobile In-Reply-To: <561C0A87.5090707@hyperactivesw.com> References: <933A92EB-84E3-4719-97B7-C958003BE959@gmail.com> <561BE940.90304@fourthworld.com> <561C0A87.5090707@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The nice thing about 14:9 content and noborder is that it splits the difference between 16:9 and 4:3, which is the ratio range for most devices. > On Oct 12, 2015, at 3:31 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 10/12/2015 12:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> I can see the need to have content in fixed ratios when the content >> itself is inherently fixed, like movies or full-screen graphics. >> >> My own inclination would be to put such content in a group and have that >> sized and placed along with other controls according to the device itself. > > That's what fullscreenMode does for you, without any scripting (and without necessarily requiring a group.) > > I don't really rely on fixed ratios the way Colin described. I just leave a margin along the card edges for most of the working parts and it usually is fine. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 12 15:40:32 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:40:32 +0000 Subject: Basic Mail Server In-Reply-To: <561BEB91.3060600@fourthworld.com> References: <0DB81653-F907-4BF4-A4FD-5E254C3E9BF3@iotecdigital.com> <561BEB91.3060600@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 10/12/2015 10:09 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: I'm curious about this. Are you saying you have an SMTP service running? If so, who do you relay through? I have an issue with customers frequently, where the contact does not know what their email server is, who provides it, or even who the IT company is that maintains it. (Frankly it shocks me to see how many people run businesses with a complete lack of any technical expertise whatsoever). What I would like to offer the customer is an easy to set up SMTP server to act as a relay. The problem then becomes encryption. Sarah's library does not do any encryption, and all attempts by anyone (including myself) have failed to get this to work even with the shell. If you have something that has gotten around this (you mentioned a hash) I'd be interested in it and would be glad to pay a fair price for it to use in these situations. *Bob Sneidar* | IT Technician Integrated Office Technology | 12150 Mora Drive, Unit 2, Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670 *p* 562-236-9200 | *f* 562-236-9222 | *e* bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com | *w* www.iotecdigital.com > /PrintWorks MPS /|/ Toshiba /|/ Konica Minolta/ / / I don't know if this will help the OP's situation, but here I have a number of apps that need to send email notifications, and some of them are running on systems that have no email server installed. Most of these are for server monitoring so I'm the only recipient, but maybe the general idea may be useful: I set up a CGI on one system that I want the emails to be sent from (which happens to also be written in LC, but it could be Perl, PHP, Python, bash, etc.) which accepts a recipient address, subject, and body, along with an obscure hash used for authentication, and puts those together to send the email from there. The CGI itself is named very obscurely (e.g. something like "gfdRRth88ewLYKss.cgi"), so it's unlikely to be guessed by any spiders. And even if it were, anyone attempting to use the CGI for spamming would also need to figure out the hash inputs, and there are enough zombied Win installs that there are easier ways to hijack machines; this one just isn't worth the effort :) Not bullet-proof (nothing is), but reasonably secure and super-easy to use. Now I have a single location for notifications that I can use from any client or server process that needs to send email, without even needing to have an email server installed. Sending notifications is a one-liner anywhere I need 'em. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 12 16:01:44 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:01:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor References: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Peter W A Wood writes: > Perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know of existing ways to > achieve what this small library does before I spent more time developing it? Nicely done. I submitted a PR to keep things moving along. Aside from folks having to reinvent list processing all the time, I don't know of any built-in support for lists. The hard part, of course, is inserting into and deleting from the middle of doubly-linked lists. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 16:08:28 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:08:28 -0700 Subject: Basic Mail Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561C133C.6070402@fourthworld.com> Here I took the laziest route available, since I just needed a quick solution for monitoring notifications: I used the email options provided by one of my shared hosting providers. I have neither the patience or time to setup and manage SMTP myself (been there, and as much as I enjoy poking around in Apache I find SMTP uninteresting), so I'm always happy to let dedicated staff handle that for me, esp. with today's low prices for hosting. LC Server runs on just about any shared host, and any CGI that can send mail is fine. Since it uses the email account set up with the host for the domain/subdomain, this does mean that all email is sent from one apparent sender. But if you set the account up with a meaningful name that's not necessarily a bad thing (could reflect something related to sales or whatever department your recipient might expect). In my case encryption isn't an issue since I'm only sending monitoring data to the CGI. But if I needed it HTTPS could be used to call the CGI - free certs become available later this year, cheap certs are available now, and one could easily encrypt the data client-side before sending and decrypt on the server with LC's encrypt/decrypt functions. As for the hash, just use anything that works for you. I use sha1digest with input being the message concatenated with the date and the IP address along with a "shared secret" salt, a file containing a long string on both the client and server. Could be just about anything you like, but with this simple setup anyone attempting to send spam with it needs to do the following: - Build a hash that satisfies what the server will expect, and while most of it is simple the "shared secret" file is unlikely to be guessed successfully. - Know the name of the CGI to call - Know the name of the subdomain I set up for it (as inconveniently named as the CGI file) And in my case I'm the only recipient so it's not like anyone can spam the world with my setup anyway. If you wanted to use something like that for sending email to others, encryption is likely useful (so that if decrypt fails you know it's spam junk and can just discard it), and even restrict by IP address if that's a practical option (it is for me since the CGI is only called from a known number of other systems, all of which have fixed IP addresses). -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Bob Sneidar wrote: > I'm curious about this. Are you saying you have an SMTP service running? > If so, who do you relay through? I have an issue with customers > frequently, where the contact does not know what their email server is, > who provides it, or even who the IT company is that maintains it. > (Frankly it shocks me to see how many people run businesses with a > complete lack of any technical expertise whatsoever). > > What I would like to offer the customer is an easy to set up SMTP server > to act as a relay. The problem then becomes encryption. Sarah's library > does not do any encryption, and all attempts by anyone (including > myself) have failed to get this to work even with the shell. > > If you have something that has gotten around this (you mentioned a hash) > I'd be interested in it and would be glad to pay a fair price for it to > use in these situations. > > *Bob Sneidar* | IT Technician > Integrated Office Technology | 12150 Mora Drive, Unit 2, Santa Fe > Springs, CA 90670 > / > / > > I don't know if this will help the OP's situation, but here I have a > number of apps that need to send email notifications, and some of them > are running on systems that have no email server installed. Most of > these are for server monitoring so I'm the only recipient, but maybe > the general idea may be useful: > > I set up a CGI on one system that I want the emails to be sent from > (which happens to also be written in LC, but it could be Perl, PHP, > Python, bash, etc.) which accepts a recipient address, subject, and > body, along with an obscure hash used for authentication, and puts > those together to send the email from there. > > The CGI itself is named very obscurely (e.g. something like > "gfdRRth88ewLYKss.cgi"), so it's unlikely to be guessed by any > spiders. And even if it were, anyone attempting to use the CGI for > spamming would also need to figure out the hash inputs, and there are > enough zombied Win installs that there are easier ways to hijack > machines; this one just isn't worth the effort :) > > Not bullet-proof (nothing is), but reasonably secure and super-easy to > use. Now I have a single location for notifications that I can use > from any client or server process that needs to send email, without > even needing to have an email server installed. Sending notifications > is a one-liner anywhere I need 'em. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 12 16:06:33 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:06:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor References: <561BF1FE.3000603@fourthworld.com> <569aa0096bae5c08f6033b65d474dd44@livecode.com> Message-ID: Mark Waddingham writes: > To be fair '?' poses less of a problem in this regard than '.' - in > terms of limiting future options that have been discussed at length in > the past ;) I use '?' suffixes all the time in Ruby code, so from my perspective... yes, it's definitely desirable. As far as dot syntax, I use it frequently in LiveCode library stacks. And I would happily throw away everything I've ever written in exchange for real object notation. And consider it a good trade-off. LOL. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 16:10:52 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:10:52 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561C13CC.3090004@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Peter W A Wood writes: > >> Perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know of existing ways >> to achieve what this small library does before I spent more time >> developing it? > > Nicely done. I submitted a PR to keep things moving along. > Aside from folks having to reinvent list processing all the time, > I don't know of any built-in support for lists. > The hard part, of course, is inserting into and deleting from the > middle of doubly-linked lists. Given the simplicity of chunk expressions, is that needed? Is this designed to be used with data sets too large to hold in memory? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 12 16:10:28 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:10:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Widget structure questions References: <56195616.3070008@ahsoftware.net> <561968CE.2060003@ahsoftware.net> <5619ABE4.8000901@ahsoftware.net> <103B99BE-2E01-4714-AC54-5065EACE0141@livecode.com> <5619FB77.1000901@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Mark Waddingham writes: > Well we can certainly come up with a list of the handlers which are definitely > part of the API used by the palettes. In spite of appearances I'm really not trying to make yet more work for the team. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 16:31:01 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:31:01 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> References: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-10 22:12, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Weirdest: Replace the IDE with the best of community components >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> Like the "Weirder" option above, this would be independent of the >> product build, but would open the door for anyone to do whatever they >> want. Bjornke's BVGDocu could replace the Dictionary, Peter's >> lcStackBrowser could replace the App and Proj browsers, your GLX2 >> editor could replace the Script Editor, etc. > ... >> It's like the thing I like most about Linux: although people in the >> Linux world enjoy arguing about darn near everything, the fact is >> there's actually little to argue about since the system is so flexible >> and has so many components available there's no reason why everyone >> can't have exactly what they most desire. > > The obvious option (which is the one we have been working towards in the > LC8 IDE) is that the IDE becomes a 'framework'. It provides well defined > extension points, well defined APIs for building IDE components, and a > well defined mechanism to ensure that changes flow properly so all > components are kept synchronized. > > The IDE framework has to be the arbiter which ensures that two distinct > IDE components (which could be written and maintained by people who > never speak to each other) can happily co-exist with each other in an > end-user's install. That's an obvious option if we assume there must be only one IDE. And from the company's perspective that's a useful assumption, at least in as much as they need to provide at a solid basic toolkit to accompany the engine. The community, however, has more flexibility. There used to be three IDEs for this engine, and Python, Ruby, and others have far more. I've been using my own tools within every xTalk IDE I've used, and as long as frontScripts work and we pass messages as good citizens do, there's an opportunity to have LESS dependence on a large IDE framework rather than more. Or if we were to be thorough, a fairly slender one. Tools can be entirely self-contained and fully interchangeable, even open at the same time, using nothing more than what the engine has provided for years. The only questions here are: 1. How do we open them? Currently third-party tools are relegated to the Plugins submenu, but crafting a launcher tool rack is simple stuff, and equally simple to just hide the current IDE's toolbar (which I've been doing for years - I go weeks at a time without ever seeing it). 2. Make sure the current IDE stays out of the way. This is the harder part, but not insurmountable, and since the goal of this "Weirdest" option is to encourage a new community-based exploratory playground of an IDE, ultimately the monolithic product version would be replaced over time within this one anyway, at least among the weirdos who like such things. And given the number of good tools in the community right now, it seems there are more than a few weirdos among us. :) This "Weirdest" option isn't for everyone, and that's very much the idea, that IDEs are simple enough in a language as flexible as LiveCode that we can several for every taste. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Oct 12 16:48:34 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:48:34 -0700 Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/12/15, 11:44 AM, "Alan Stenhouse" wrote: >Thanks John + Scott. > >So, that doesn?t seem to be any clearer - 2 conflicting reports. I?ve >also tried setting it to the display fontname and that works - but only >when the postscript name is the same, AFAICS. > >I was testing on the simulator with iOS 8.2 and on device with iOS 7. > >The fontmap was (I think) introduced with 6.7 but at least here it?s not >used. I guess I should get on and test this with LC7 + LC8? > >John, what version of LC did you test with? > >Thanks again > >Alan > >On 12 Oct 2015, at 7:16 pm, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > >> From: Scott Rossi >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Subject: Re: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> AFAIK, you do need to use the Postscript name, and the names are case >>sensitive. Also, the FontMap addition to the standalone builder allows >>you to define how a custom installed font name used in your stack maps >>to the font name on a device. And I may be mistaken but I believe the >>LiveCode folks have taken care of the default font mappings already (I >>believe Mark W commented on this some time back). >> >> Not sure if this was introduced after 6.7.6 however. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media UX/UI Design >> >>> On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:50 AM, John Dixon wrote: >>> >>> mmm... >>> >>> just tried in with >>> >>> iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "helvetica" >>> iphoneControlSet inputID, "fontName", "american typewriter" >>> >>> and it works, in the simulator, anyway... > From revolution at derbrill.de Mon Oct 12 16:53:02 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:53:02 +0200 Subject: [ANN] animationengine 6 Message-ID: Hi List, please excuse this rather lengthy mail, but I am quite excited... I almost had let this slip, but I just couldn?t. animationEngine turned 10 years old this months! If there is a good time to do an update, then I guess the tenth birthday is an opportunity I can not miss. So without further ado, I would like to introduce you to the latest version: http://www.derbrill.de/animationEngine6.zip The download comes with a tiny demo stack that demonstrates the new stuff. The documentation also has been updated. For those of you that do not know what animationEngine is: animationEngine is a dual licensed animation library for liveCode. animationEngine 6 has been optimized to work with liveCode version 6.7 and higher, including, but without warranty the current developer preview of the liveCode 8 engine (which is by the time of this writing version 8 DP 7). What is new in version 6? animationEngine 6 adds 4 major features, along with a couple of helper functions to its Toolset: 1) aeChangeAngleCircular changes the position of an object on a cirCular path. It allows you to use easing effects for the transition. Example: aeChangeAngleCircular the long ID of grc "ball",the loc of grc "path",80,tNewAngle,2000,"counterclockwise","bounce" aeChangeAngleCircular the long ID of grc "ball",the loc of grc "path",80,270,2000,"clockwise","inout? Parameters: long ID of the object to move centerX of path centerY of path (centerX and centerY can be combined expression) radius from center desired new angle duration in millisecs direction (clockwise OR counterClockwise) easing method (in, out, inOut, overshoot, bounce or empty) 2) aeMorphGraphic transitions a graphic between 2 pointlists. This is also known as "tweening". Example: aeMorphGraphic the long ID of grc 1,sPoints1,sPoints2,1500, tEffect Parameters: long ID of a graphic object pointList (start) pointList (end) duration in millisecs easing method (in, out, inOut, overshoot, bounce or empty) 3) aeMorphGradientRamp changes the ramp of a fillgradient of an object. It allows you to use easing effects for the transition. Example: aeMorphGradientRamp the long ID of grc 1,tGradient1,tGradient2,3000,?overshoot" Parameters: long ID of the graphic that changes the gradient startGradient endGradient duration in millisecs easing method (in, out, inOut, overshoot, bounce or empty) See stack ae6demo to see it in action. 4) aeRotateGroup rotates all members of the target group around an arbitrary point. Example: aeRotateGroup the long ID of grp "rotateMe", the loc of grc "Center",90,1000,"overshoot? Parameters: long ID of a group centerX of rotationPoint centerY of rotationPoint (centerX and centerY can be combined expression) desired angle in degrees duration in millisecs easing method (in, out, inOut, overshoot, bounce or empty) See stack ae6demo contained in the download to see it in action. Licensing terms: These scripts are licensed to you if you agree to be bound to one of the following License types at your choice. 1) GPL 3 You may use animationEngine as FREE Software as outlined in the terms of the GPL3 or any higher version of the GPL as found here: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html 2) Commercial license: If you do not want to disclose the sources of your application you have the option to purchase a commercial license by paying a fee. You can buy a commercial license from the liveCode store. This can be done following this link: https://livecode.com/products/thirdparty/derbrill/animation-engine-6-0-0/ AnimationEngine 6 is a major update, so if you want to use it in a commercial context, a new license is required for this version. That said, there is no distinction between the GPL and the commercial version of the library. If you want to use it in a commercial context, we trust you find it worthwhile paying for the license. :-) If you would like to follow this project, you can do so here: https://github.com/derbrill/animationEngine Finally a word of thanks for all the support I have received over the years! Without your suggestions, support and contributions, be it buying licenses or otherwise all this would not have been possible! All the best, Malte From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Oct 12 17:18:27 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:18:27 +0200 Subject: [ANN] animationengine 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Malte, that?s great news. How about update pricing for the commercial license? Regards, Matthias > Am 12.10.2015 um 22:53 schrieb Malte Brill : > > Hi List, > > please excuse this rather lengthy mail, but I am quite excited... > > I almost had let this slip, but I just couldn?t. animationEngine turned 10 years old this months! If there is a good time to do an update, then I guess the tenth birthday is an opportunity I can not miss. So without further ado, I would like to introduce you to the latest version: > > http://www.derbrill.de/animationEngine6.zip > > The download comes with a tiny demo stack that demonstrates the new stuff. The documentation also has been updated. > > For those of you that do not know what animationEngine is: > > animationEngine is a dual licensed animation library for liveCode. > > animationEngine 6 has been optimized to work with liveCode version 6.7 and higher, including, but without warranty the current developer preview of the liveCode 8 engine (which is by the time of this writing version 8 DP 7). > > What is new in version 6? > > animationEngine 6 adds 4 major features, along with a couple of helper functions to its Toolset: > > 1) aeChangeAngleCircular changes the position of an object on a cirCular path. It allows you to use easing effects for the transition. > > Example: > aeChangeAngleCircular the long ID of grc "ball",the loc of grc "path",80,tNewAngle,2000,"counterclockwise","bounce" > aeChangeAngleCircular the long ID of grc "ball",the loc of grc "path",80,270,2000,"clockwise","inout? > > Parameters: > > long ID of the object to move > centerX of path > centerY of path (centerX and centerY can be combined expression) radius from center > desired new angle > duration in millisecs > direction (clockwise OR counterClockwise) > easing method (in, out, inOut, overshoot, bounce or empty) > > 2) aeMorphGraphic transitions a graphic between 2 pointlists. This is also known as "tweening". > > Example: > aeMorphGraphic the long ID of grc 1,sPoints1,sPoints2,1500, tEffect > > Parameters: > > long ID of a graphic object > pointList (start) > pointList (end) > duration in millisecs > easing method (in, out, inOut, overshoot, bounce or empty) > > 3) aeMorphGradientRamp changes the ramp of a fillgradient of an object. It allows you to use easing effects for the transition. Example: > aeMorphGradientRamp the long ID of grc 1,tGradient1,tGradient2,3000,?overshoot" > > Parameters: > > long ID of the graphic that changes the gradient > startGradient > endGradient > duration in millisecs > easing method (in, out, inOut, overshoot, bounce or empty) > > See stack ae6demo to see it in action. > > 4) aeRotateGroup rotates all members of the target group around an arbitrary point. Example: > aeRotateGroup the long ID of grp "rotateMe", the loc of grc "Center",90,1000,"overshoot? > > Parameters: > > long ID of a group > centerX of rotationPoint > centerY of rotationPoint (centerX and centerY can be combined expression) desired angle in degrees > duration in millisecs > easing method (in, out, inOut, overshoot, bounce or empty) > > See stack ae6demo contained in the download to see it in action. > > Licensing terms: > > These scripts are licensed to you if you agree to be bound to one of the following License types at your choice. > > 1) GPL 3 You may use animationEngine as FREE Software as outlined in the terms of the GPL3 or any higher version of the GPL as found here: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html > > 2) Commercial license: If you do not want to disclose the sources of your application you have the option to purchase a commercial license by paying a fee. You can buy a commercial license from the liveCode store. This can be done following this link: https://livecode.com/products/thirdparty/derbrill/animation-engine-6-0-0/ > > AnimationEngine 6 is a major update, so if you want to use it in a commercial context, a new license is required for this version. That said, there is no distinction between the GPL and the commercial version of the library. If you want to use it in a commercial context, we trust you find it worthwhile paying for the license. :-) > > If you would like to follow this project, you can do so here: https://github.com/derbrill/animationEngine > > Finally a word of thanks for all the support I have received over the years! Without your suggestions, support and contributions, be it buying licenses or otherwise all this would not have been possible! > > All the best, > > Malte > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 12 17:26:23 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:26:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor References: <561C13CC.3090004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard Gaskin writes: > Given the simplicity of chunk expressions, is that needed? Absolutely. LiveCode doesn't without additional complexity support singly- or doubly-linked listed of arbitrary objects. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Oct 12 17:35:53 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:35:53 -0700 Subject: [ANN] animationengine 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Malte was kind enough to let me play with the new additions, and he added some really great features. If you want to do any kind of motion in LC, don't even bother with LC's move command -- AnimationEngine is the way to go. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/12/15, 1:53 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Malte Brill" wrote: >animationEngine turned 10 years old this months! If there is a good time >to do an update, then I guess the tenth birthday is an opportunity I can >not miss. So without further ado, I would like to introduce you to the >latest version: > >http://www.derbrill.de/animationEngine6.zip > >The download comes with a tiny demo stack that demonstrates the new >stuff. The documentation also has been updated. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 12 17:37:45 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:37:45 +1100 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <561BEAED.7090000@fourthworld.com> References: <561BEAED.7090000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 13 Oct 2015, at 4:16 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > The savingStandalone and standaloneSaved messages, along with their mobile equivalents, are in the Dictionary. There may be others if I gave it some thought. Those are slightly different in that they are sent to user stacks rather than accessing IDE internals. To add a guide to the docs it is only a matter of adding a markdown file to the correct location. A plugin guide would be a good place for all these functions and notifications to be documented. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 12 17:44:47 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:44:47 +1100 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <60AF0495-55BF-4ED2-9AF0-1E8327F99199@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Oct 2015, at 3:48 am, Roger Eller wrote: > > What is mergGoogle, and of all things I would expect to work on Android, > based on the name, this would be one. So, is this available for the > Android platform? TIA We have discussed Android externals limitations every time I?ve released anything for the past few years so I imagine you can answer this question yourself and will understand the reasons why by now? I know it?s frustrating for you. It?s frustrating for me too but I?m not going to stop delivering stuff people want just because I can?t deliver it on Android at the moment? Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 17:51:15 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:51:15 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561C2B53.5030903@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Richard Gaskin writes: > >> Given the simplicity of chunk expressions, is that needed? > > Absolutely. LiveCode doesn't without additional complexity support > singly- or doubly-linked listed of arbitrary objects. I realize extra code is needed to implement linked lists of objects, my question is whether we need to work that hard to handle chunks of data in LiveCode. I may well simply misunderstand the role of his library. I had thought it was focused on working with data rather than objects, and if so it would seem a relatively simple matter of maintaining a pointer into a return-delimited chunk for the "next", "prev", etc. features he described, along with chunk expressions. I hadn't considered the possibility of using theses lists to contain objects, though. Interesting idea, but I'm not sure how I'd use that. Seems to be a pattern with me today - time for better coffeee.... :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Mon Oct 12 17:55:13 2015 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:55:13 -0700 Subject: IPV6... In-Reply-To: <9DDF0355-A1B2-422F-AA41-583E487B9856@iotecdigital.com> References: <561BFD51.5010109@fourthworld.com> <9DDF0355-A1B2-422F-AA41-583E487B9856@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > alleviate. I can just remember a subnet and a few IPV4 addresses. I can > promise you I will *NOT* remember a single IPV6 address. lol. You'll have to cut and paste like the rest of us . -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 17:58:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:58:16 -0700 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561C2CF8.9030303@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 13 Oct 2015, at 4:16 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> The savingStandalone and standaloneSaved messages, along with >> their mobile equivalents, are in the Dictionary. There may be >> others if I gave it some thought. > > Those are slightly different in that they are sent to user stacks > rather than accessing IDE internals. There are probably other distinctions as well, but my point was simply that they're useful for folks to know about, which is presumably why there were documented in the Release Notes where we all read about them. We could invest our time in enumerating reasons not to document them, but it seems reasonable to expect that a function to let us know where the Plugins folder is would be provided. > To add a guide to the docs it is only a matter of adding a markdown > file to the correct location. A plugin guide would be a good place > for all these functions and notifications to be documented. I'm not all that particular about where things are documented, and we can continue to invent new places to store such things if there's a benefit in doing so. I just think it would be helpful to have them documented in something other than a Release Note from many versions ago. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Oct 12 18:04:30 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:04:30 -0400 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <60AF0495-55BF-4ED2-9AF0-1E8327F99199@sweattechnologies.com> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <60AF0495-55BF-4ED2-9AF0-1E8327F99199@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: I know I can't be the only LC user that would renew the full suite if Android was included. Especially for access to the Google api stuff. Sorry if I sound like a broken record. ~Roger Roger EllerGraphics Systems Analyst 803 North Maple StreetP: 864.967.1625Simpsonville, SC 29681C: 864.908.0337 SealedAir.com Roger.E.Eller at SealedAir.com On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 13 Oct 2015, at 3:48 am, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > > What is mergGoogle, and of all things I would expect to work on Android, > > based on the name, this would be one. So, is this available for the > > Android platform? TIA > > We have discussed Android externals limitations every time I?ve released > anything for the past few years so I imagine you can answer this question > yourself and will understand the reasons why by now? I know it?s > frustrating for you. It?s frustrating for me too but I?m not going to stop > delivering stuff people want just because I can?t deliver it on Android at > the moment? > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 12 18:06:30 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:06:30 +1100 Subject: Widget structure questions In-Reply-To: <561C2CF8.9030303@fourthworld.com> References: <561C2CF8.9030303@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 13 Oct 2015, at 8:58 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > I just think it would be helpful to have them documented in something other than a Release Note from many versions ago. Definitely agree with you there ;-) From mark.rauterkus at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 18:16:08 2015 From: mark.rauterkus at gmail.com (Mark Rauterkus) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:16:08 -0400 Subject: Learning Materials Message-ID: Hi, William Prothero, Your list would make a great addition to the existing wiki pages. Mike asked about asking LiveCode to host a wiki. I think it would be better to host the wiki on Wikia.com and not suck up bandwidth and energy from the folks at LiveCode. The wikia system is robust and comes with ads, but no other overhead. I think the wiki for a 'cookbook' would be fantastic. And, what's there now is a start. Mark Rauterkus mark at rauterkus.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 12 18:18:34 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:18:34 +1100 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <60AF0495-55BF-4ED2-9AF0-1E8327F99199@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: > On 13 Oct 2015, at 9:04 am, Roger Eller wrote: > > I know I can't be the only LC user that would renew the full suite if > Android was included. Especially for access to the Google api stuff. > Sorry if I sound like a broken record. Well if you can point me to a C or C++ sdk I?ll gladly do it and we can have Windows, Linux and server too. mergGoogle uses an objective-c sdk which is why it?s iOS & OS X only. Where I?ve been able to use cross platform libraries I?ve made the externals cross platform too (mergJSON, mergMarkdown). Now of course mergGoogle is just calling web api so it would be feasible to implement it in LiveCode. The cost of doing so is obviously a lot higher (both for initial implementation and ling term maintenance) than hooking up google?s official sdk which as I mentioned is not available as a cross platform library? Cheers Monte From hh at livecode.org Mon Oct 12 18:24:26 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 00:24:26 +0200 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value Message-ID: [@Bernd: here a PONG to your PING.] Obviously each list member has to be inspected once for the comparison. And each "smaller than"-member has to be inspected once again to find the maximum. There is no other way, this is a math fact. Here is my solution, that seems to be pretty fast. -- v is a real num, L is a list of real comma-delimites nums -- if L has NO member < v then return MINVAL (=your setting) -- Empty members are treated as 0 (doesn't harm, if all x>0) -- Pre-sorting of L gives no advantage. function greatestMemberSmallerThan v,L put -10^15 into z[true] --> because max(empty)=0 repeat for each item x in L -- if x is empty then next repeat --> here not necessary put comma & x after z[x Alejandro was so kind to compress the contained PDF so it came down from 25 MB to a couple of KB. Thanks Al! I updated the download. @Scott: Thanks for the kind words! @Matthias: ae 6.0 was rather involved in development and as much as I am supportive of the dual licensing thing it rather cannibalized the funds for the project. I hope to be able to re-introduce upgrade discounts with version 7. But first there will be a couple of updates to ae 6, which will be free for all commercial license holders of a version 6 license. Mainly the plan for v6 and beyond is to optimize performance a little more namely by moving all handlers into the main timer (the aeGeneral handler), v.6.0 is the start of that, but being able to do this for all handlers needs funding. I always have and will continue to only charge for major version increments and I will never introduce a subscription model for animationEngine. I hope my motivation here is understandable. All the best, Malte From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Mon Oct 12 19:05:33 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> hh wrote > [@Bernd: here a PONG to your PING.] > > Obviously each list member has to be inspected once for the comparison. > And each "smaller than"-member has to be inspected once again to find > the maximum. There is no other way, this is a math fact. > > Here is my solution, that seems to be pretty fast. > > -- v is a real num, L is a list of real comma-delimites nums > -- if L has NO member < v then return MINVAL (=your setting) > -- Empty members are treated as 0 (doesn't harm, if all x>0) > -- Pre-sorting of L gives no advantage. > > function greatestMemberSmallerThan v,L > put -10^15 into z[true] --> because max(empty)=0 > repeat for each item x in L > -- if x is empty then next repeat --> here not necessary > put comma & x after z[x<v] > end repeat > return max( z[true] ) > end greatestMemberSmallerThan Hermann, you know that math is my weak spot (among others) but whatever math says in my code I don't touch every member of the list, in my case the sorting has "touched" ever member and I can safely do my "binary search" type of thing. Missing values are no problem but empty items would. did you benchmark my snippet and yours say on a list of 100000 items? Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/function-for-greatest-object-in-list-less-than-or-equal-to-a-value-tp4697221p4697311.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 19:24:09 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:24:09 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: function greatestLessThan pList,V sort items of pList descending numeric sort items of pList by each >= V return item 1 of pList end greatestLessThan 100,000 items, two sorts, and consistently returns in under 0.075 seconds on my Mac: on mouseUp repeat 100000 put random(10000000),"" after L end repeat put the long seconds into T get greatestLessThan(L,5000000) put (the long seconds - T) && it into fld 3 end mouseUp 1,000,000 items generally returns in about .95 seconds 10,000,000 items came back in 10.5 seconds, so against my intuition, this things seems to scale fairly linearly. From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 19:24:09 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:24:09 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: function greatestLessThan pList,V sort items of pList descending numeric sort items of pList by each >= V return item 1 of pList end greatestLessThan 100,000 items, two sorts, and consistently returns in under 0.075 seconds on my Mac: on mouseUp repeat 100000 put random(10000000),"" after L end repeat put the long seconds into T get greatestLessThan(L,5000000) put (the long seconds - T) && it into fld 3 end mouseUp 1,000,000 items generally returns in about .95 seconds 10,000,000 items came back in 10.5 seconds, so against my intuition, this things seems to scale fairly linearly. From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Oct 12 19:25:40 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:25:40 -0700 Subject: iOS dumb question Message-ID: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> I?m working on an app that I will deploy to iOS and Android as well as desktop. The standalone settings for iOS allow for copying files, but the ?Copy Files? window states ?non-stack files?. Do this mean that all stacks in an iOS app must be substacks of the main stack? I tried an iOS test with a number of stacks in the copy files/folders list (with V7.1) and got the ?watch? busy indicator, forever. Hints or advice would be appreciated. Best, Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From alex at tweedly.net Mon Oct 12 19:32:01 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 00:32:01 +0100 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <561C2B53.5030903@fourthworld.com> References: <561C2B53.5030903@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561C42F1.2000702@tweedly.net> Never mind objects; we could restate it as .... "LC has no way to handle lists of arbitrary chunks of data". Your phrase " ... simple matter of ... return-delimited chunk ..." hides the the real issue: what if the chunks of data might contain 'return's ? You can find another character which is less likely (!!?) - but that doesn't give you "arbitrary data". Or you coerce it by encoding / decoding every time you put data into / out of the list, or . But those all make it less than simple, and less than efficient. And, of course, inserting / deleting from such delimited "pseudo-lists" is considerably less efficient than the constant time cost you would expect from "real" lists :-) -- Alex. On 12/10/2015 22:51, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mark Wieder wrote: > > > Richard Gaskin writes: > > > >> Given the simplicity of chunk expressions, is that needed? > > > > Absolutely. LiveCode doesn't without additional complexity support > > singly- or doubly-linked listed of arbitrary objects. > > I realize extra code is needed to implement linked lists of objects, > my question is whether we need to work that hard to handle chunks of > data in LiveCode. > > I may well simply misunderstand the role of his library. I had > thought it was focused on working with data rather than objects, and > if so it would seem a relatively simple matter of maintaining a > pointer into a return-delimited chunk for the "next", "prev", etc. > features he described, along with chunk expressions. > > I hadn't considered the possibility of using theses lists to contain > objects, though. Interesting idea, but I'm not sure how I'd use that. > Seems to be a pattern with me today - time for better coffeee.... :) > From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Oct 12 19:35:14 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:35:14 -0700 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <35F0634D-6FA3-4D9B-9D08-7A94BF8883E8@earthednet.org> Sorry, looks like I need Xcode 6.3. Bill > On Oct 12, 2015, at 4:25 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > I?m working on an app that I will deploy to iOS and Android as well as desktop. The standalone settings for iOS allow for copying files, but the ?Copy Files? window states ?non-stack files?. Do this mean that all stacks in an iOS app must be substacks of the main stack? > > I tried an iOS test with a number of stacks in the copy files/folders list (with V7.1) and got the ?watch? busy indicator, forever. > > Hints or advice would be appreciated. > Best, > Bill > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 12 19:49:32 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:49:32 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <561C42F1.2000702@tweedly.net> References: <561C42F1.2000702@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <561C470C.4000000@fourthworld.com> Alex Tweedly wrote: > Never mind objects; we could restate it as .... "LC has no way to > handle lists of arbitrary chunks of data". > > Your phrase " ... simple matter of ... return-delimited chunk ..." > hides the the real issue: > what if the chunks of data might contain 'return's ? For ISO-8859-1 data I've replace in-data tabs with 0x04 and in-data returns with 0x11, the same format Filemaker uses for its Merge exports. Obviously this isn't quite as simple with Unicode, but even then we're left with a similar if not larger problem: if a tab is 0x09, what is a Unicode tab? I suspect that when dealing with delimited text the engine can figure out what it needs to make chunk expressions work. > You can find another character which is less likely (!!?) - but that > doesn't give you "arbitrary data". There's the thing, the reason for my admitted need for coffee: in my simple world I have no requirement for working with lists of arbitrary data. When I need to work with arbitrary data I use arrays, and for things that lend themselves to chunk expressions I use chunk expressions. Peter's original problem statement was: LiveCode chunking is great for handling lists but, as far as I can tell, is missing forward and backward navigation through lists. I decided to write a few simple functions to come up with such a mechanism. For that I would use a pointer into the list to keep track of the concept of a "current" record, making forward and backward navigation somewhat straightforward. And given that the data was described as being a string list, my inclination would be to leave it that way. I was unable to find where he mentioned "arbitrary data"; it seemed he was working with things chunk expressions handle well, as he described. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Oct 12 20:00:37 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:00:37 -0400 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> Bill, You can put any file including stacks in that window. Fonts will be automatically loaded. I put my library stacks as well as my main stack in that window. I use a small stub stack to fire up the main stack included in the copy files pane. On mobile these stacks are read-only. They are in a compressed format. If you copy them to "the documents folder" then the stack are writable. I have not done any timing to see if the stacks run faster after extracting by copying them from "the engine folder" to the "documents folder. This also allows you to update a stack without going through the Apple approval process. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 7:26 PM To: Use-livecode Use-livecode Subject: iOS dumb question I?m working on an app that I will deploy to iOS and Android as well as desktop. The standalone settings for iOS allow for copying files, but the ?Copy Files? window states ?non-stack files?. Do this mean that all stacks in an iOS app must be substacks of the main stack? I tried an iOS test with a number of stacks in the copy files/folders list (with V7.1) and got the ?watch? busy indicator, forever. Hints or advice would be appreciated. Best, Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Oct 12 20:15:42 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:15:42 -0700 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> Message-ID: <49E4CB47-A9FE-4E56-9CB9-4D9BB173C6E3@earthednet.org> Ralph: Thanks! Just what I was hoping. I got confused by having the wrong version of XCode. Haven?t done iOS for awhile. Best, Bill > On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:00 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > > Bill, > > You can put any file including stacks in that window. Fonts will be automatically loaded. I put my library stacks as well as my main stack in that window. I use a small stub stack to fire up the main stack included in the copy files pane. On mobile these stacks are read-only. They are in a compressed format. If you copy them to "the documents folder" then the stack are writable. I have not done any timing to see if the stacks run faster after extracting by copying them from "the engine folder" to the "documents folder. This also allows you to update a stack without going through the Apple approval process. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 7:26 PM > To: Use-livecode Use-livecode > Subject: iOS dumb question > > I?m working on an app that I will deploy to iOS and Android as well as desktop. The standalone settings for iOS allow for copying files, but the ?Copy Files? window states ?non-stack files?. Do this mean that all stacks in an iOS app must be substacks of the main stack? > > I tried an iOS test with a number of stacks in the copy files/folders list (with V7.1) and got the ?watch? busy indicator, forever. > > Hints or advice would be appreciated. > Best, > Bill > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Oct 12 21:00:23 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:00:23 -0400 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <49E4CB47-A9FE-4E56-9CB9-4D9BB173C6E3@earthednet.org> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> <49E4CB47-A9FE-4E56-9CB9-4D9BB173C6E3@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <004001d10552$8a9c20c0$9fd46240$@net> Bill, Paul H provided this link in another thread. This tells you all you need to know about Xcode/Mac OS/LC versions. https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ ?then just click on "What iOS/Xcode version matches which version of LiveCode?". Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 8:16 PM To: Use-livecode Use-livecode Subject: Re: iOS dumb question Ralph: Thanks! Just what I was hoping. I got confused by having the wrong version of XCode. Haven?t done iOS for awhile. Best, Bill > On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:00 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > > Bill, > > You can put any file including stacks in that window. Fonts will be automatically loaded. I put my library stacks as well as my main stack in that window. I use a small stub stack to fire up the main stack included in the copy files pane. On mobile these stacks are read-only. They are in a compressed format. If you copy them to "the documents folder" then the stack are writable. I have not done any timing to see if the stacks run faster after extracting by copying them from "the engine folder" to the "documents folder. This also allows you to update a stack without going through the Apple approval process. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 7:26 PM > To: Use-livecode Use-livecode > Subject: iOS dumb question > > I?m working on an app that I will deploy to iOS and Android as well as desktop. The standalone settings for iOS allow for copying files, but the ?Copy Files? window states ?non-stack files?. Do this mean that all stacks in an iOS app must be substacks of the main stack? > > I tried an iOS test with a number of stacks in the copy files/folders list (with V7.1) and got the ?watch? busy indicator, forever. > > Hints or advice would be appreciated. > Best, > Bill > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 21:10:33 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:10:33 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Not quite as concise, but this function is about 3x faster: function greatestLessThan pList,V put empty into R repeat for each item i in pList if i < V and i > R then put i into R end repeat return R end greatestLessThan From mikedoub at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 21:20:02 2015 From: mikedoub at gmail.com (Mike Doub) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:20:02 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <740644b3-4498-4c18-be92-458dbfbd48bc@typeapp.com> Pass by reference and you can eliminate a memcopy on the initial function call. -= Mike On Oct 12, 2015, 9:11 PM, at 9:11 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >Not quite as concise, but this function is about 3x faster: > >function greatestLessThan pList,V > put empty into R > repeat for each item i in pList > if i < V and i > R then put i into R > end repeat > return R >end greatestLessThan >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 21:32:04 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:32:04 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: References: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> <561BE2C0.7080108@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Mark > On 13 Oct 2015, at 01:32, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > On 2015-10-12 18:41, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> That looks like Builder rather than Script, no? > > No - this is definitely a LiveCode Script library... It implements a data-type on top of an LCS array very much like the LCB 'List' type. (Such 'proper lists' - aka dense integer numerically-keyed arrays with index starting at 1 - are something we want to add to LCS at some point). I believe that it would be a very worthwhile addition. An implementation in the engine would be far, far superior and orders of magnitude faster than anything I can come up with in LiveCode Script. > Interestingly (although I've not read it in depth) it looks like the type is designed with the idea that you can easily change what is considered to be the 'first' index - i.e. move backward and forward through it. That is correct > This reminds me of a circular linked list in functionality. The list is not circular. I am used to such functionality from Rebol (and now Red) whose list processing is ,I believe, highly influenced by Lisp. Kind regards Peter From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 21:39:33 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:39:33 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <569aa0096bae5c08f6033b65d474dd44@livecode.com> References: <561BF1FE.3000603@fourthworld.com> <569aa0096bae5c08f6033b65d474dd44@livecode.com> Message-ID: <58C4901F-88AB-4AE0-8867-268D34FB493F@gmail.com> Mark > On 13 Oct 2015, at 01:58, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > On 2015-10-12 19:46, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> I've never seen question marks in handler names in any xTalk I've ever >> used, so I figured perhaps it might be something specific to Builder. > > It's a standard convention in some languages (Scheme springs to mind) to indicate a 'predicate' - a function which returns true or false. > > I've seem some LiveCode Script libraries in the past use it - although not very many. Again, I am influenced by Rebol. Most of its functions which return true or false end with a ?. Some which return data such as length? also end in a ?. These latter are the cause of regular discussion in the community as to being renamed with -of at the end. Personally, I prefer length? over length-of (or lengthOf in LiveCode?s case). > >> If allowable, is it desirable? I suppose it's a matter of taste if it >> doesn't break anything, but given how uncommon it is I'd wager an API >> for others to use could benefit from conventions developers might >> anticipate. > > Well the identifier token in LiveCode Script has always been very forgiving. However, in that does lie a problem - it restricts what operators could be added in the future (which is fine as long as the goal of the language is to avoid as many 'symbols' as possible). > > To be fair '?' poses less of a problem in this regard than '.' - in terms of limiting future options that have been discussed at length in the past ;) I was surprised to read this as I started using this convention when one of the LiveCode team commented on somebody?s code that used the same convention and said ?some people in the office have started using it?. Of course, I can no longer find the comment. If you think it is an unwise convention to use to avoid name clashes, I will adopt another one. Any suggestions as to a good approach/ > Certainly, we (at LiveCode) only use handler names using alphanumeric characters and '_?. See above. Kind regards Peter From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 21:41:55 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:41:55 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: References: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5559D338-0260-4CC8-8AFE-D84C2ECD5111@gmail.com> Mark > On 13 Oct 2015, at 04:01, Mark Wieder wrote: > > Peter W A Wood writes: > >> Perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know of existing ways to >> achieve what this small library does before I spent more time developing it? > > Nicely done. I submitted a PR to keep things moving along. > Aside from folks having to reinvent list processing all the time, > I don't know of any built-in support for lists. Many thanks for the help and encouragement. > The hard part, of course, is inserting into and deleting from the middle > of doubly-linked lists. It will be very hard. Anyway I?ll see how far I can get. Kind regards Peter From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 21:44:35 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:44:35 +0800 Subject: Fwd: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor References: <3E555A1B-E984-49F0-BA9D-F1F916E9DF35@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1CC64C45-8E5E-4A13-B7F8-B490BAC275BD@gmail.com> Bob > On 12 Oct 2015, at 23:29, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > > What I do is load all (or blocks) of the data all at once, put it into a data grid, then navigate through the records in the data grid. I trap selectionChanged in the datagrid to populate the detail fields on the form. I have an edit bar for creating new, editing existing and deleting existing records. I also have a search object for finding records in a table and displaying them in a datagrid. By setting some constants in the search object's input field it can be used with any table and data grid. Navigation is now accomplished by the user simply arrowing down or up in the data grid, or scrolling down, sorting columns etc., or usign the search bar. > > Trouble is, I develop almost exclusively for sqlYoga but it would not be difficult to refactor it for use with any database. > > Bob S Thanks for this tip. Displaying one record in my stack fills a card. I don?t think that I could adapt a data grid in this case. Peter From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 12 22:11:17 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:11:17 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> References: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561C6845.50402@ahsoftware.net> On 10/12/2015 01:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > 1. How do we open them? Currently third-party tools are relegated to > the Plugins submenu, but crafting a launcher tool rack is simple stuff, > and equally simple to just hide the current IDE's toolbar (which I've > been doing for years - I go weeks at a time without ever seeing it). Check out some things in the revIDELibrary. For instance, the revIDEPaletteToStackName() and revIDEAvailablePalettes() functions. They're hard-coded for now, but the plan is to open them up when the references in the IDE stacks are refactored. And look at the publish and subscribe functions as well, which will allow IDE component replacements to register interest in certain IDE messages and respond to them. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Oct 12 22:14:21 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:14:21 -0400 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <60AF0495-55BF-4ED2-9AF0-1E8327F99199@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Since you're the brain, and have the rare capability to create the under the hood magic that so many of us LC consumers need, the best I can do is Google what you asked for. This probably is not the thing you need, and I have no idea whether this is at all helpful, but... https://developers.google.com/games/services/cpp/GettingStartedNativeClient?hl=en On Oct 12, 2015 6:18 PM, "Monte Goulding" wrote: > > > On 13 Oct 2015, at 9:04 am, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > > I know I can't be the only LC user that would renew the full suite if > > Android was included. Especially for access to the Google api stuff. > > Sorry if I sound like a broken record. > > Well if you can point me to a C or C++ sdk I?ll gladly do it and we can > have Windows, Linux and server too. mergGoogle uses an objective-c sdk > which is why it?s iOS & OS X only. Where I?ve been able to use cross > platform libraries I?ve made the externals cross platform too (mergJSON, > mergMarkdown). Now of course mergGoogle is just calling web api so it would > be feasible to implement it in LiveCode. The cost of doing so is obviously > a lot higher (both for initial implementation and ling term maintenance) > than hooking up google?s official sdk which as I mentioned is not available > as a cross platform library? > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 12 22:21:13 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:21:13 +1100 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <60AF0495-55BF-4ED2-9AF0-1E8327F99199@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <740D9F13-D3F5-49F6-849D-F159DA9F6AD8@sweattechnologies.com> That?s not a GData sdk but interesting nonetheless. It appears I could implement a google play games services external that cross compiles for Android and iOS. Good find Roger! > On 13 Oct 2015, at 1:14 pm, Roger Eller wrote: > > Since you're the brain, and have the rare capability to create the under > the hood magic that so many of us LC consumers need, the best I can do is > Google what you asked for. > > This probably is not the thing you need, and I have no idea whether this is > at all helpful, but... > https://developers.google.com/games/services/cpp/GettingStartedNativeClient?hl=en > On Oct 12, 2015 6:18 PM, "Monte Goulding" > wrote: > >> >>> On 13 Oct 2015, at 9:04 am, Roger Eller >> wrote: >>> >>> I know I can't be the only LC user that would renew the full suite if >>> Android was included. Especially for access to the Google api stuff. >>> Sorry if I sound like a broken record. >> >> Well if you can point me to a C or C++ sdk I?ll gladly do it and we can >> have Windows, Linux and server too. mergGoogle uses an objective-c sdk >> which is why it?s iOS & OS X only. Where I?ve been able to use cross >> platform libraries I?ve made the externals cross platform too (mergJSON, >> mergMarkdown). Now of course mergGoogle is just calling web api so it would >> be feasible to implement it in LiveCode. The cost of doing so is obviously >> a lot higher (both for initial implementation and ling term maintenance) >> than hooking up google?s official sdk which as I mentioned is not available >> as a cross platform library? >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Oct 12 22:41:11 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:41:11 -0400 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <740D9F13-D3F5-49F6-849D-F159DA9F6AD8@sweattechnologies.com> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <60AF0495-55BF-4ED2-9AF0-1E8327F99199@sweattechnologies.com> <740D9F13-D3F5-49F6-849D-F159DA9F6AD8@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: There is a mention of running C++ in a sandboxed environment here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client "An alternative of sorts to NaCl is asm.js, which also allows C and C++ applications to be compiled to run in the browser (at more than half the native speed), and also supports ahead-of-time compilation, but is a subset of JavaScript and hence backwards-compatible with browsers that do not support it directly." So, perhaps inside a browser object? On Oct 12, 2015 10:21 PM, "Monte Goulding" wrote: > That?s not a GData sdk but interesting nonetheless. It appears I could > implement a google play games services external that cross compiles for > Android and iOS. Good find Roger! > > > On 13 Oct 2015, at 1:14 pm, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > > Since you're the brain, and have the rare capability to create the under > > the hood magic that so many of us LC consumers need, the best I can do is > > Google what you asked for. > > > > This probably is not the thing you need, and I have no idea whether this > is > > at all helpful, but... > > > https://developers.google.com/games/services/cpp/GettingStartedNativeClient?hl=en > > On Oct 12, 2015 6:18 PM, "Monte Goulding" > > wrote: > > > >> > >>> On 13 Oct 2015, at 9:04 am, Roger Eller > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> I know I can't be the only LC user that would renew the full suite if > >>> Android was included. Especially for access to the Google api stuff. > >>> Sorry if I sound like a broken record. > >> > >> Well if you can point me to a C or C++ sdk I?ll gladly do it and we can > >> have Windows, Linux and server too. mergGoogle uses an objective-c sdk > >> which is why it?s iOS & OS X only. Where I?ve been able to use cross > >> platform libraries I?ve made the externals cross platform too (mergJSON, > >> mergMarkdown). Now of course mergGoogle is just calling web api so it > would > >> be feasible to implement it in LiveCode. The cost of doing so is > obviously > >> a lot higher (both for initial implementation and ling term maintenance) > >> than hooking up google?s official sdk which as I mentioned is not > available > >> as a cross platform library? > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Monte > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 12 22:51:57 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:51:57 +1100 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <60AF0495-55BF-4ED2-9AF0-1E8327F99199@sweattechnologies.com> <740D9F13-D3F5-49F6-849D-F159DA9F6AD8@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: > On 13 Oct 2015, at 1:41 pm, Roger Eller wrote: > > There is a mention of running C++ in a sandboxed environment here. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client > > "An alternative of sorts to NaCl is asm.js, which also allows C and C++ > applications to be compiled to run in the browser (at more than half the > native speed), and also supports ahead-of-time compilation, but is a subset > of JavaScript and hence backwards-compatible with browsers that do not > support it directly." > > So, perhaps inside a browser object? ^ Is what the HTML 5 version of LC is. LC compiled as javascript. It won?t help us here. My gut feeling is just wait for extensions. The recent work done on the browser widget indicates we will be able to do some really interesting things with native layers soon. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 12 22:52:55 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:52:55 -0500 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> Message-ID: <561C7207.7090107@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/12/2015 7:00 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > I use a small stub stack to fire up the main stack included in the > copy files pane. On mobile these stacks are read-only. They are in a > compressed format. If you copy them to "the documents folder" then > the stack are writable. I have not done any timing to see if the > stacks run faster after extracting by copying them from "the engine > folder" to the "documents folder. This also allows you to update a > stack without going through the Apple approval process. Doesn't this break Apple's rules about not downloading executable code? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 12 22:55:32 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:55:32 +1100 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <561C7207.7090107@hyperactivesw.com> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> <561C7207.7090107@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7273B154-AF21-47E9-A0E1-F37AA74BF519@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Oct 2015, at 1:52 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Doesn't this break Apple's rules about not downloading executable code? Yes it does. We had a discussion about this the other day. You can only update javascript. Mind you I bet you could get away with it for quite some time ;-) From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 12 23:06:48 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:06:48 -0500 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <561C7548.9010300@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/12/2015 6:24 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > function greatestLessThan pList,V > sort items of pList descending numeric > sort items of pList by each >= V > return item 1 of pList > end greatestLessThan Clever. How come it works when V is in the list, when you're asking for ">=" ? Seems like V should be toward the front of the second sort. I used this: put greatestLessthan("1,2,4,5,6,8,9",5) The 5 was at the end of the second sorted list, even though it's equal to V. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 12 23:10:40 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:10:40 -0500 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <7273B154-AF21-47E9-A0E1-F37AA74BF519@sweattechnologies.com> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> <561C7207.7090107@hyperactivesw.com> <7273B154-AF21-47E9-A0E1-F37AA74BF519@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <561C7630.4010807@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/12/2015 9:55 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 13 Oct 2015, at 1:52 pm, J. Landman Gay >> wrote: >> >> Doesn't this break Apple's rules about not downloading executable >> code? > > Yes it does. We had a discussion about this the other day. You can > only update javascript. Mind you I bet you could get away with it for > quite some time ;-) My question was mostly rhetorical, I wouldn't chance it. If they caught on, Apple would ban me as a developer. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Oct 12 23:14:13 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:14:13 -0400 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <7273B154-AF21-47E9-A0E1-F37AA74BF519@sweattechnologies.com> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> <561C7207.7090107@hyperactivesw.com> <7273B154-AF21-47E9-A0E1-F37AA74BF519@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Also, with the new personal license which allows you to side-load apps onto your own devices, I would think it would be OK. That is, if the app will never be submitted to the app store. On Oct 12, 2015 10:55 PM, "Monte Goulding" wrote: > > > On 13 Oct 2015, at 1:52 pm, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > > > > Doesn't this break Apple's rules about not downloading executable code? > > Yes it does. We had a discussion about this the other day. You can only > update javascript. Mind you I bet you could get away with it for quite some > time ;-) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 23:36:25 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:36:25 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <561C470C.4000000@fourthworld.com> References: <561C42F1.2000702@tweedly.net> <561C470C.4000000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Peter's original problem statement was: > > LiveCode chunking is great for handling lists but, as far > as I can tell, is missing forward and backward navigation > through lists. Actually the problem as I read it was: I decided to convert a small card-based database stack to a ?proper? > database using SQLite. I immediately missed the next/previous card > navigation features which were ideal for browsing the small database. So, although all the posts about LC lists might be valid and worth pursuing I have to wonder, if you've gone to the trouble of converting a multi-card stack to a db why wouldn't you just use the inbuilt db forte of being able to maintain a cursor and move next record and previous record for you. See in the dictionary: revMoveToPreviousRecord revMoveToNextRecord Fast and efficient. The db (be it SQLite or whatever other flavour) opens up so many other super quick and efficient ways of manipulating your 'list' of data that I'm sure you'll quickly appreciate that the single card + db approach offers much more, more easily and quickly compared to the old 1 record per card approach. Using LCs inbuilt db handling and navigating features is a lot quicker and easier than writing your own List handling script. HTH From simon at asato-media.com Mon Oct 12 23:31:15 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post Message-ID: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> Apologies for this post. I tried, I really did try, a couple hours actually. Someone within the past month posted a link to his new iOS app (not iTunes but his own site). I thought one of the reply's was "Looks great" but that didn't help. I remember it was, I believe, a WordPress site but was definitely predominantly blue/white and very cool. Yes, I am interested in the theme he used. Yes, I should have bookmarked it. Thanks for anyone's help, Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-sort-a-Trying-to-find-a-post-tp4697337.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Oct 12 23:50:46 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:50:46 +1000 Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post In-Reply-To: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> > Someone within the past month posted a link to his new iOS app (not iTunes > but his own site). I thought one of the reply's was "Looks great" but that > didn't help. > I remember it was, I believe, a WordPress site but was definitely > predominantly blue/white and very cool. > Yes, I am interested in the theme he used. Yes, I should have bookmarked it. I recall someone posted a link on Slack during the Global Jam to an iOS app that had a blue/white themed Wordpress site. If you were on Slack, that might have been it? I can dig up the link if you don?t still have access to it. Cheers, Charles > Thanks for anyone's help, > Simon > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-sort-a-Trying-to-find-a-post-tp4697337.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 23:50:21 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:50:21 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <740644b3-4498-4c18-be92-458dbfbd48bc@typeapp.com> References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> <740644b3-4498-4c18-be92-458dbfbd48bc@typeapp.com> Message-ID: Sure, that's always an option for large data calls to functions. On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Mike Doub wrote: > Pass by reference and you can eliminate a memcopy on the initial function > call. > > -= Mike > > > > On Oct 12, 2015, 9:11 PM, at 9:11 PM, Geoff Canyon > wrote: > >Not quite as concise, but this function is about 3x faster: > > > >function greatestLessThan pList,V > > put empty into R > > repeat for each item i in pList > > if i < V and i > R then put i into R > > end repeat > > return R > >end greatestLessThan > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From simon at asato-media.com Mon Oct 12 23:45:47 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post In-Reply-To: <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> References: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <1444707947525-4697340.post@n4.nabble.com> Charles Warwick wrote > I recall someone posted a link on Slack during the Global Jam to an iOS > app that had a blue/white themed Wordpress site. > > If you were on Slack, that might have been it? I can dig up the link if > you don?t still have access to it. I actually don't know if it was a Slack post, but yes if you have a link I'd like to see it, might have been posted elsewhere. And thank you. Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-sort-a-Trying-to-find-a-post-tp4697337p4697340.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 23:56:46 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:56:46 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561C7548.9010300@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> <561C7548.9010300@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The first sort is straightforward, and turns "1,2,4,5,6,8,9" into "9,8,6,5,4,2,1" The second sort splits that into two groups. The first group is the entries that fail the test, the second is the entries that pass the test. Since the test is ">=", 5 passes the test and goes in the second group. That makes the result "4,2,1,9,8,6,5" I think it could also be written as sort items of pList by not (each < V) But I'm guessing that would be a bit slower (maybe not) It would probably be clearer to do this: sort items of pList numeric sort items of pList by each < V return item -1 of pList But that adds the burden of getting item -1, i.e. parsing the whole list a final time. If the engine were optimized for negative items it wouldn't matter much, but since it's not, I inverted the rest of the statements to be able to get item 1 at the end. On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/12/2015 6:24 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> function greatestLessThan pList,V >> sort items of pList descending numeric >> sort items of pList by each >= V >> return item 1 of pList >> end greatestLessThan >> > > Clever. How come it works when V is in the list, when you're asking for > ">=" ? Seems like V should be toward the front of the second sort. > > I used this: > > put greatestLessthan("1,2,4,5,6,8,9",5) > > The 5 was at the end of the second sorted list, even though it's equal to > V. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Oct 13 00:05:23 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:05:23 +1000 Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post In-Reply-To: <1444707947525-4697340.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> <1444707947525-4697340.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: >> If you were on Slack, that might have been it? I can dig up the link if >> you don?t still have access to it. > > I actually don't know if it was a Slack post, but yes if you have a link I'd > like to see it, might have been posted elsewhere. > And thank you. http://getwell.care/mobile/en > Simon > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-sort-a-Trying-to-find-a-post-tp4697337p4697340.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Oct 13 00:07:57 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 00:07:57 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1505f621db9-560e-2dc5@webprd-a98.mail.aol.com> Geoff. I find this slower than the sort method. By about 30%. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Canyon To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 9:11 pm Subject: Re: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value Not quite as concise, but this function is about 3x faster: function greatestLessThan pList,V put empty into R repeat for each item i in pList if i < V and i > R then put i into R end repeat return R end greatestLessThan _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 13 00:08:02 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 04:08:02 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561C6845.50402@ahsoftware.net> References: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> <561C6845.50402@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: The publish/subscribe stuff sounds great, especially since I just found no newxxx messages are sent when creating a control from the tools palette. On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 7:11 PM Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/12/2015 01:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > 1. How do we open them? Currently third-party tools are relegated to > > the Plugins submenu, but crafting a launcher tool rack is simple stuff, > > and equally simple to just hide the current IDE's toolbar (which I've > > been doing for years - I go weeks at a time without ever seeing it). > > Check out some things in the revIDELibrary. For instance, the > revIDEPaletteToStackName() and revIDEAvailablePalettes() functions. > They're hard-coded for now, but the plan is to open them up when the > references in the IDE stacks are refactored. And look at the publish and > subscribe functions as well, which will allow IDE component replacements > to register interest in certain IDE messages and respond to them. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 13 00:09:11 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 04:09:11 +0000 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: References: <561C42F1.2000702@tweedly.net> <561C470C.4000000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: +1 On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 8:36 PM Kay C Lan wrote: > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com> > wrote: > > > > > Peter's original problem statement was: > > > > LiveCode chunking is great for handling lists but, as far > > as I can tell, is missing forward and backward navigation > > through lists. > > > Actually the problem as I read it was: > > I decided to convert a small card-based database stack to a ?proper? > > database using SQLite. I immediately missed the next/previous card > > navigation features which were ideal for browsing the small database. > > > So, although all the posts about LC lists might be valid and worth pursuing > I have to wonder, if you've gone to the trouble of converting a multi-card > stack to a db why wouldn't you just use the inbuilt db forte of being able > to maintain a cursor and move next record and previous record for you. > > See in the dictionary: > > revMoveToPreviousRecord > revMoveToNextRecord > > Fast and efficient. The db (be it SQLite or whatever other flavour) opens > up so many other super quick and efficient ways of manipulating your 'list' > of data that I'm sure you'll quickly appreciate that the single card + db > approach offers much more, more easily and quickly compared to the old 1 > record per card approach. > > Using LCs inbuilt db handling and navigating features is a lot quicker and > easier than writing your own List handling script. > > HTH > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From simon at asato-media.com Tue Oct 13 00:00:03 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post In-Reply-To: References: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> <1444707947525-4697340.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1444708803889-4697346.post@n4.nabble.com> Charles Warwick wrote > http://getwell.care/mobile/en <http://getwell.care/mobile/en> Charles, Thank you Thank you! That's it! Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-sort-a-Trying-to-find-a-post-tp4697337p4697346.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From theresap72 at aol.com Tue Oct 13 00:24:39 2015 From: theresap72 at aol.com (Theresa Pettit) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 00:24:39 -0400 Subject: help changing the From address when sending email Message-ID: <1505f7169e2-92a-2df8@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> I'm very new to this so maybe I'm oversimplifying it in my head. Do I really need to go through all of those steps? I do have a domain I purchased but it's not being hosted anywhere at the moment. Is it possible somehow just have my domain connected to my on-rev server account and then direct it to that to use as the from address or is it more complicated requiring the extra steps below? Thanks, Theresa ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:02:47 -0400 From: "Ralph DiMola" To: "'How to use LiveCode'" Subject: RE: help changing the From address when sending email I thought sending email was an easy thing. It turns out in this spam/virus world we live it gets more complicated. First of all sending messages with a "from" other than your on-rev master address is technically "spoofing". This is done legitimately all the time with consultants running a server process on behalf of their customers. There are several things one can do to prevent spam filters from having heart failure. 1) Put a "mailfrom:ACCOUNTNAME at SERVERNAME.on-rev.com" in the email header. This give spam filters a valid path back to the on-rev server. ACCOUNTNAME = master on-rev email address(login username) SERVERNAME = Server name (i.e. diesel, thor....) 2) Put a "from:SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com" in the email header. SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com = is the email address you want the recipient to see. It should be a valid email. 3) put a "Message-Id: " in the email header. UNIQUE-ID = I use the LC uuid 4) put a "Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:48:57 +0200" in the email header. LC Example: ("Date:" && the internet date) 5) put a "Subject: MY SUBJECT" in the email header. 5) If the email is html then also include a text version also. Not including a text version will up your spam score. 6) A short email body will up your spam score. 7) Non https images or links will up your spam score. 8) add a spf txt record to your DNS. This is not a show stopper. See https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-an-spf-record-to -prevent-spoofing-improve-e-mail-reliability for example. I am not vouching for this site it's just an example. Do a "spf txt record examples" search for more information. There are on-line tools to test your spam score. Paste in the email(including headers) and see your score. Before I did all this my X-AntiAbuse spam score was 12 out of 10. All my email was flagged as spam. By doing the above steps (sans the spf thingy) I lowered it to -0.3 I am not an email expert and I'm sure this score could be lowered even more with more header tweaking but this get my emails delivered and not put into junk mail folders. I have done some major re-working of the example sendmail script. Let me know if you would like me to send you my updated version. You may have to change a few things to make it your own. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:03 PM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Subject: help changing the From address when sending email I'm creating an app that needs to send an email to the user. I've gone through the lesson about sending email through LiveCode Server here http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4070/l/8184-sending-emails-from-livecode-server- scripts and I get the email to send but no matter what I seem to do, I can't get the "from" address to be anything but my server account email. Is there something I'm missing? I've tried it using a variable and also just putting a straight email address in but I can't get it to change. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 00:27:56 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:27:56 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: References: <561C42F1.2000702@tweedly.net> <561C470C.4000000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Kay > On 13 Oct 2015, at 11:36, Kay C Lan wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> >> Peter's original problem statement was: >> >> LiveCode chunking is great for handling lists but, as far >> as I can tell, is missing forward and backward navigation >> through lists. > > > Actually the problem as I read it was: > > I decided to convert a small card-based database stack to a ?proper? >> database using SQLite. I immediately missed the next/previous card >> navigation features which were ideal for browsing the small database. > > > So, although all the posts about LC lists might be valid and worth pursuing > I have to wonder, if you've gone to the trouble of converting a multi-card > stack to a db why wouldn't you just use the inbuilt db forte of being able > to maintain a cursor and move next record and previous record for you. > > See in the dictionary: > > revMoveToPreviousRecord > revMoveToNextRecord Thanks that it what I was missing. > Fast and efficient. The db (be it SQLite or whatever other flavour) opens > up so many other super quick and efficient ways of manipulating your 'list' > of data that I'm sure you'll quickly appreciate that the single card + db > approach offers much more, more easily and quickly compared to the old 1 > record per card approach. I look forward to finding out. > Using LCs inbuilt db handling and navigating features is a lot quicker and > easier than writing your own List handling script. I will try the navigation features for this stack but will continue to work on my ?List Processor?. Kind regards Peter From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Oct 13 00:19:44 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1444709984684-4697349.post@n4.nabble.com> @LCMark I ran a test with wide variations of the number of items for the "sort" vs. the "repeat" method. The "sort" method is always faster, at least up to several million items. Craig Newman -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/function-for-greatest-object-in-list-less-than-or-equal-to-a-value-tp4697221p4697349.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Oct 13 00:33:49 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 00:33:49 -0400 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <561C7630.4010807@hyperactivesw.com> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> <003f01d1054a$31267de0$937379a0$@net> <561C7207.7090107@hyperactivesw.com> <7273B154-AF21-47E9-A0E1-F37AA74BF519@sweattechnologies.com> <561C7630.4010807@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <004101d10570$5b69c730$123d5590$@net> I agree I would not chance it either. I do a SQLite db update to apps. When the update starts I left the word "database" from the answer box message. Apple saw it and rejected me thinking it was a code update. I explained it to them it was the database and added the word "database" to the message and they approved the app. So.... They are looking. This begs the question: Could a stack of images be considered the image database? Could you update it without breaking the rules? If you could then what if there were some behaviors for the images? What if you did/did not change one of those behaviors? Even if the image sends a mouseup message to a library stack contained in the original app, I guess that a simple mouseup script would be considered code and be forbidden to be downloaded whether the script changed or not. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 11:11 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: iOS dumb question On 10/12/2015 9:55 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 13 Oct 2015, at 1:52 pm, J. Landman Gay >> wrote: >> >> Doesn't this break Apple's rules about not downloading executable >> code? > > Yes it does. We had a discussion about this the other day. You can > only update javascript. Mind you I bet you could get away with it for > quite some time ;-) My question was mostly rhetorical, I wouldn't chance it. If they caught on, Apple would ban me as a developer. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From simon at asato-media.com Tue Oct 13 00:22:08 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post In-Reply-To: References: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> <1444707947525-4697340.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1444710128788-4697351.post@n4.nabble.com> Charles Warwick wrote > http://getwell.care/mobile/en <http://getwell.care/mobile/en> Ahh shoot! Seems like this site is phishing, none of the links work for me. I guess not really a LiveCoder. Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-sort-a-Trying-to-find-a-post-tp4697337p4697351.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 00:32:13 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 00:32:13 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1505f621db9-560e-2dc5@webprd-a98.mail.aol.com> References: <1505f621db9-560e-2dc5@webprd-a98.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Interesting. What exact code did you use? Here's mine: on mouseUp repeat 1000000 put random(1000000000),"" after L end repeat put the long seconds into T get greatestLessThanSort(L,500000000) put "sort" && (the long seconds - T) && it into fld 3 put the long seconds into T get greatestLessThanRepeat(L,500000000) put cr & "repeat" && (the long seconds - T) && it after fld 3 end mouseUp function greatestLessThanSort pList,V sort items of pList descending numeric sort items of pList by each >= V return item 1 of pList end greatestLessThanSort function greatestLessThanRepeat pList,V put empty into R repeat for each item i in pList if i < V and i > R then put i into R end repeat return R end greatestLessThanRepeat And the results: sort 0.916539 499999879 repeat 0.331764 499999879 On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:07 AM, wrote: > Geoff. > > > I find this slower than the sort method. By about 30%. > > > Craig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff Canyon > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 9:11 pm > Subject: Re: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a > value > > > Not quite as concise, but this function is about 3x faster: > > function > greatestLessThan pList,V > put empty into R > repeat for each item i in > pList > if i < V and i > R then put i into R > end repeat > return > R > end > greatestLessThan > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode > mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, > unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Oct 13 00:47:19 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:47:19 +1000 Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post In-Reply-To: <1444710128788-4697351.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> <1444707947525-4697340.post@n4.nabble.com> <1444710128788-4697351.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: > > Charles Warwick wrote >> http://getwell.care/mobile/en <http://getwell.care/mobile/en> > > Ahh shoot! > Seems like this site is phishing, none of the links work for me. > I guess not really a LiveCoder. I only briefly looked at the page at the time. The poster did make a number of comments on Slack that seemed to indicate he was using LiveCode at least to some extent? Maybe he is on this list and can comment. Cheers, Charles From paul at livecode.org Tue Oct 13 02:02:54 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:02:54 -0700 Subject: help changing the From address when sending email In-Reply-To: <1505f7169e2-92a-2df8@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> References: <1505f7169e2-92a-2df8@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Theresa, It is pretty easy to set up your new domain and an email with your on-rev.com account. First you need to set up an 'add on domain' in the c-panel for your on-rev.com account, go to the 'Domains' panel and click on the 'Addon Domain' icon. Fill in the details, it's straight forward, but remember to save the password, save the settings and go back to the c-panel home screen. Next, go to your domain supplier's control panel and look for the Domain Name Server settings and change the Name Servers to ns1.on-rev.com, ns2.on-rev.com and ns3.on-rev.com save the settings and log out of your domain supplier's control panel. Now you can go back to the on-rev.com control panel and configure a new email for your new domain in the Email Accounts panel. If this isn't too clear, send me email and I'll make some screen shots to explain the steps. Paul Sent from my iPad > On Oct 12, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Theresa Pettit wrote: > > > > I'm very new to this so maybe I'm oversimplifying it in my head. Do I really need to go through all of those steps? I do have a domain I purchased but it's not being hosted anywhere at the moment. > > Is it possible somehow just have my domain connected to my on-rev server account and then direct it to that to use as the from address or is it more complicated requiring the extra steps below? > > Thanks, > Theresa > > > > ----------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 > 10:02:47 -0400 > From: "Ralph DiMola" > To: "'How to > use LiveCode'" > Subject: RE: help changing the From address when sending email > > > > > I thought sending email was an easy thing. It turns out in this spam/virus > world we live it gets more complicated. > > First of all sending messages with a "from" other than your on-rev master > address is technically "spoofing". This is done legitimately all the time > with consultants running a server process on behalf of their customers. > There are several things one can do to prevent spam filters from having > heart failure. > > 1) Put a "mailfrom:ACCOUNTNAME at SERVERNAME.on-rev.com" in the email header. > This give spam filters a valid path back to the on-rev server. > ACCOUNTNAME = master on-rev email address(login username) > SERVERNAME = Server name (i.e. diesel, thor....) > > 2) Put a "from:SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com" in the email header. > SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com = is the email address you want the recipient > to see. It should be a valid email. > > 3) put a "Message-Id: " in the email header. > UNIQUE-ID = I use the LC uuid > > 4) put a "Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:48:57 +0200" in the email header. LC > Example: ("Date:" && the internet date) > > 5) put a "Subject: MY SUBJECT" in the email header. > > 5) If the email is html then also include a text version also. Not including > a text version will up your spam score. > > 6) A short email body will up your spam score. > > 7) Non https images or links will up your spam score. > > 8) add a spf txt record to your DNS. This is not a show stopper. See > https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-an-spf-record-to > -prevent-spoofing-improve-e-mail-reliability for example. I am not vouching > for this site it's just an example. Do a "spf txt record examples" search > for more information. > > There are on-line tools to test your spam score. Paste in the > email(including headers) and see your score. > > Before I did all this my X-AntiAbuse spam score was 12 out of 10. All my > email was flagged as spam. By doing the above steps (sans the spf thingy) I > lowered it to -0.3 > > I am not an email expert and I'm sure this score could be lowered even more > with more header tweaking but this get my emails delivered and not put into > junk mail folders. > > I have done some major re-working of the example sendmail script. Let me > know if you would like me to send you my updated version. You may have to > change a few things to make it your own. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Theresa > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:03 PM > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: help changing the From address when sending email > > > > I'm creating an app that needs to send an email to the user. I've gone > through the lesson about sending email through LiveCode Server here > http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4070/l/8184-sending-emails-from-livecode-server- > scripts > and I get the email to send but no matter what I seem to do, I can't get the > "from" address to be anything but my server account email. Is there > something I'm missing? I've tried it using a variable and also just putting > a straight email address in but I can't get it to change. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 02:49:03 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:49:03 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: References: <8CBB62A2-FC41-403E-AD61-B273D44FB7AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6B46FE21-3098-47E7-836B-3243DE09CD98@gmail.com> I?ve added a few more ?easy? functions today - append, copy, empty?, head, head?, poke, tail and tail?. The List Processor?s API is documented at https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-ListProcessor Regards Peter From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 02:59:10 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:59:10 +0800 Subject: Is the assert command supported? Message-ID: The assert command appears to be included in LiveCode 8 but is not mentioned in either the dictionary or the user guide. All I?ve been able to find about was in an article in RevUp - http://newsletters.livecode.com/february/issue166/newsletter1.html Is it still supported? It is still experimental? Regards Peter From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 13 03:16:33 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:16:33 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> References: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-12 22:31, Richard Gaskin wrote: > That's an obvious option if we assume there must be only one IDE. And > from the company's perspective that's a useful assumption, at least in > as much as they need to provide at a solid basic toolkit to accompany > the engine. Well, the engine is pretty useless in isolation without tools to be able to build apps with it (unless of course you are happy with restricting yourself to script libraries and using a text editor - which whilst appropriate for some endeavours, for most purposes it would be extremely tedious). > I've been using my own tools within every xTalk IDE I've used, and as > long as frontScripts work and we pass messages as good citizens do, > there's an opportunity to have LESS dependence on a large IDE > framework rather than more. Or if we were to be thorough, a fairly > slender one. I think you might be confusing 'IDE' with 'IDE Framework' here - they are two quite distinct things. > Tools can be entirely self-contained and fully interchangeable, even > open at the same time, using nothing more than what the engine has > provided for years. Really? Are you sure that is true? So you would have every 'application browser' type tool implement its own code for monitoring for changes in the user stacks, and for collecting all the data about the objects in user stacks? You would have every 'tools palette' type tool implement its own code to go digging around on disk for all extensions, listing, enumerating and providing an ability to create them? You would have every 'documentation palette' type tool implements its own code to go digging around on disk for the content it needs to display, and then its own code for processing that content into the form it wishes to display? You would have every 'standalone builder palette' type tool implement its own code for building standalones? You would have every palette which wants a button on some sort of 'launcher stack' have to understand how every 'independent' launcher stack needs to be told to add its button? And assuming you would have that, how do you ensure that all these components which can be used in a 'fully interchangeable' and in an entirely 'self-contained' fashion don't actually interfere with each other to the detriment of the user stacks they are acting upon? In order for any system to work where you can plug-and-play components from different sources you need to have a common basis of communication which provides the basic services all the components need to ensure that they can be used together in the same environment without conflict. Also, you need to ensure that said set of basic services is rich enough that those that wish to write such components don't spend most of their time re-inventing the wheel and can focus entirely on the purpose of their component. Now, I see that you appear to regard the 'engine' with some sort of magical prowess. Indeed, it does provide a 'standard' interface to a common set of functionality that is exposed through its object model and syntax; however, I'd assert that the engine's interface is not at a high-enough level right now to give you what is needed for what you dream of in terms of the 'bit that binds all these decentralised built components together'. Thus any solution which provides the above 'nirvana' in terms of interchangeable tools will end up relying on a collection of script libraries which everyone's tools rely on and use to ensure they can all co-exist together - i.e. you end up with precisely the IDE Framework that I've been talking about. It is important to remember that 'framework' means precisely that - it is scaffolding, policy, and ancillary services. A 'framework' is just there to ensure that everything works together for its particular end purpose - and good ones interfere as little as possible with the actual action of the components which sit within them. Ideally, of course, the 'engine' would provide such an appropriate high-level interface - a strong API - for tools written by disparate parties acting together in a single environment to give users complete choice in their toolkit for creating LiveCode applications... ... Sounds like a good way to approach that (given how much faster it is to write LiveCode Script than C++) would be to provide the engine with a standard set of script libraries which present a suitable high-level interface for building IDE Tools to ensure tool writers (including ourselves) can easily build tools... ... Which is rather like what we've been working on in the LC8 IDE ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 13 03:26:23 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:26:23 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> <561C6845.50402@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <44c5e413c56585bc2ffb2bd9d89e31e3@livecode.com> On 2015-10-13 06:08, Peter Haworth wrote: > The publish/subscribe stuff sounds great, especially since I just found > no > newxxx messages are sent when creating a control from the tools > palette. I did notice your bug report on that - however Ali is away for a few days at the moment so I haven't been able to check with him about this. The problem with the 'tools hooking into the message path' approach is that you end up interfering with the operation of user stacks unless you are very careful. You kinda end up with the abstract picture of each tool wrapping the preceding tool with the application somewhere at the bottom surrounded by a wash of code each potentially doing its own thing. The publish/subscribe mechanism, along with the other APIs emerging in the LC8 IDE tries to change this by providing a 'model' tools can hook into to mutate the user stacks being edited. This means that the tools themselves can be insulated from the user stacks, and the user stacks can be insulated from the tools - hopefully ensuring a much more easy co-existence than sometimes occur in the current (pre-LC8) IDE. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 13 03:52:46 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:52:46 +0200 Subject: Is the assert command =?UTF-8?Q?supported=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17061c632fc7f7a22908cecdfd4e9b94@livecode.com> On 2015-10-13 08:59, Peter W A Wood wrote: > The assert command appears to be included in LiveCode 8 but is not > mentioned in either the dictionary or the user guide. All I?ve been > able to find about was in an article in RevUp - > http://newsletters.livecode.com/february/issue166/newsletter1.html > > > Is it still supported? It is still experimental? Still experimental - the main problem it was put in to solve was to be able to test for error's being thrown from an expression. However, as it turns out, its inflexibility doesn't really warrant its use and I wonder if the 'assert' verb should actually be repurposed away from unit tests and to general (simple) runtime assertions. If you are looking to write unit-tests, then Peter recently put together a super-simple LiveCode Script test runner which runs unit tests in the engine after they are built under CI: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tree/develop/tests/lcs It might be worth a look at the work he has done if you are looking to do a similar thing for your projects. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hh at livecode.org Tue Oct 13 04:35:53 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:35:53 +0200 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value Message-ID: <088980AE-E249-4763-BEA6-AF20FFF88F76@livecode.org> @Craig I also found the "sort" method faster than the "repeat" method on a PPC. On intel, under several OSes, here always won the [1] below. @Bernd I didn't include your solution because pre-sorting wastes too much time. Perhaps sorting could be included in your binary loop? @Geoff You could also try with a critical value near the "edges": greatestLessThanRepeat(L,1) and greatestLessThanRepeat(L,1000000000-1) and then average your three runs? From my tests (referencing the list gives moreover a smallincrease in speed. Empty list members are not handled, LC handles empty as zero): ** The simplest is the fastest ** [1] (contributed by P.M.B.) function getMaxLessThan tList,maxVal repeat for each item i in tList if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList end repeat return max(outList) end getMaxLessThan Even the clever idea of max-finding in the same loop [2] (contributed by G.C.) function greatestLessThanRepeat pList,V put empty into R repeat for each item i in pList if i < V and i > R then put i into R end repeat return R end greatestLessThanRepeat is *slightly* slower. [3] (contributed by me) function greatestMemberSmallerThan L,V put -10^15 into z[true] repeat for each item x in L put comma & x after z[xv) is also asked for, with the same v. Hermann From alex at tweedly.net Tue Oct 13 04:59:07 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:59:07 +0100 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <740644b3-4498-4c18-be92-458dbfbd48bc@typeapp.com> References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> <740644b3-4498-4c18-be92-458dbfbd48bc@typeapp.com> Message-ID: <561CC7DB.9080404@tweedly.net> On 13/10/2015 02:20, Mike Doub wrote: > Pass by reference and you can eliminate a memcopy on the initial function call. > > -= Mike > > That *used* to be true - but (unless my memory is playing tricks again :-), Mark Waddingham said on the list recently that recent (*) versions of LC use a pointer, and only "copy-on-write" - so there would be no saving in this case. Kind of verified by a very simple benchmark: using a value of 500,000 I got times of LC version normal pass by ref 6.6 4023 683 7.0.5 1655 1486 8.0 1768 1465 The code used (with apologies - a bit rushed) constant K = 100 constant KK = 10 on mouseUp ask "how often" put it into KKK repeat K times put "a" after tmp end repeat repeat KK times put tmp after tmp end repeat put the number of chars in tmp put the millisecs into t1 repeat KKK times aa tmp end repeat put " took " & the millisecs - t1 after msg put the millisecs into t1 repeat KKK times bb tmp end repeat put " took " & the millisecs - t1 after msg end mouseUp on aa p put char 1 of p into t end aa on bb @p put char 1 of p into t end bb -- Alex. On 13/10/2015 02:20, Mike Doub wrote: > Pass by reference and you can eliminate a memcopy on the initial function call. > > -= Mike > > > > On Oct 12, 2015, 9:11 PM, at 9:11 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> Not quite as concise, but this function is about 3x faster: >> >> function greatestLessThan pList,V >> put empty into R >> repeat for each item i in pList >> if i < V and i > R then put i into R >> end repeat >> return R >> end greatestLessThan >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 05:02:25 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:02:25 +0800 Subject: Is the assert command supported? In-Reply-To: <17061c632fc7f7a22908cecdfd4e9b94@livecode.com> References: <17061c632fc7f7a22908cecdfd4e9b94@livecode.com> Message-ID: <19F75754-B389-42AF-980F-69D3FE7E70F1@gmail.com> Thanks Mark > On 13 Oct 2015, at 15:52, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > On 2015-10-13 08:59, Peter W A Wood wrote: >> The assert command appears to be included in LiveCode 8 but is not >> mentioned in either the dictionary or the user guide. All I?ve been >> able to find about was in an article in RevUp - >> http://newsletters.livecode.com/february/issue166/newsletter1.html >> >> Is it still supported? It is still experimental? > > Still experimental - the main problem it was put in to solve was to be able to test for error's being thrown from an expression. However, as it turns out, its inflexibility doesn't really warrant its use and I wonder if the 'assert' verb should actually be repurposed away from unit tests and to general (simple) runtime assertions. I was mis-using it for general (simple) runtime assertions when I wish to call a function and don?t use the returned value. I think it would be a good addition to the language. > If you are looking to write unit-tests, then Peter recently put together a super-simple LiveCode Script test runner which runs unit tests in the engine after they are built under CI: > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tree/develop/tests/lcs I have my own even simpler test framework, based on others I have used with other languages. It is very flexible and sufficient for my needs. It can be used to test both GUI stacks and Server stacks - https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-MiniTest Kind regards Peter From revolution at derbrill.de Tue Oct 13 05:15:10 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:15:10 +0200 Subject: [ANN] animationengine 6 Message-ID: <08523BBB-E705-4065-AAEB-399631FEBE83@derbrill.de> @Matthias: I have discussed this internally and we will be sending out upgrade vouchers to all existing customers granting 20% off the purchase. So if any of the existing users does not receive the voucher within the next 48 hours, please feel free to contact me directly. All the best, Malte From dwilliams at livecode.com Tue Oct 13 05:29:15 2015 From: dwilliams at livecode.com (David Williams) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:29:15 +0100 Subject: help changing the From address when sending email In-Reply-To: <1505f7169e2-92a-2df8@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> References: <1505f7169e2-92a-2df8@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Theresa, If you are needing to send email from a script and have it appear with the desired From: address, etc, you will need to follow at least the steps about email headers detailed in Ralph's response; mail servers tend to be very picky about how emails are formed. If you want to set up email accounts for use with your own domain at On-Rev, this is a lot simpler - Paul Hibbert explained it well in his response. Please feel free to drop us an email at On-Rev support if you need further assistance: http://on-rev.com/support/contact-us/ -David On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 05:24:39 +0100, Theresa Pettit wrote: > > > I'm very new to this so maybe I'm oversimplifying it in my head. Do I > really need to go through all of those steps? I do have a domain I > purchased but it's not being hosted anywhere at the moment. > > Is it possible somehow just have my domain connected to my on-rev server > account and then direct it to that to use as the from address or is it > more complicated requiring the extra steps below? > > Thanks, > Theresa > > > > ----------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 > 10:02:47 -0400 > From: "Ralph DiMola" > To: "'How to > use LiveCode'" > Subject: RE: help changing the From address when sending email > > > > > I thought sending email was an easy thing. It turns out in this > spam/virus > world we live it gets more complicated. > > First of all sending messages with a "from" other than your on-rev master > address is technically "spoofing". This is done legitimately all the time > with consultants running a server process on behalf of their customers. > There are several things one can do to prevent spam filters from having > heart failure. > > 1) Put a "mailfrom:ACCOUNTNAME at SERVERNAME.on-rev.com" in the email > header. > This give spam filters a valid path back to the on-rev server. > ACCOUNTNAME = master on-rev email address(login username) > SERVERNAME = Server name (i.e. diesel, thor....) > > 2) Put a "from:SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com" in the email header. > SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com = is the email address you want the > recipient > to see. It should be a valid email. > > 3) put a "Message-Id: " in the email > header. > UNIQUE-ID = I use the LC uuid > > 4) put a "Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:48:57 +0200" in the email header. LC > Example: ("Date:" && the internet date) > > 5) put a "Subject: MY SUBJECT" in the email header. > > 5) If the email is html then also include a text version also. Not > including > a text version will up your spam score. > > 6) A short email body will up your spam score. > > 7) Non https images or links will up your spam score. > > 8) add a spf txt record to your DNS. This is not a show stopper. See > https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-an-spf-record-to > -prevent-spoofing-improve-e-mail-reliability for example. I am not > vouching > for this site it's just an example. Do a "spf txt record examples" search > for more information. > > There are on-line tools to test your spam score. Paste in the > email(including headers) and see your score. > > Before I did all this my X-AntiAbuse spam score was 12 out of 10. All my > email was flagged as spam. By doing the above steps (sans the spf > thingy) I > lowered it to -0.3 > > I am not an email expert and I'm sure this score could be lowered even > more > with more header tweaking but this get my emails delivered and not put > into > junk mail folders. > > I have done some major re-working of the example sendmail script. Let me > know if you would like me to send you my updated version. You may have to > change a few things to make it your own. > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Theresa > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:03 PM > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: help changing the From address when sending email > > > > I'm creating an app that needs to send an email to the user. I've gone > through the lesson about sending email through LiveCode Server here > http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4070/l/8184-sending-emails-from-livecode-server- > scripts > and I get the email to send but no matter what I seem to do, I can't get > the > "from" address to be anything but my server account email. Is there > something I'm missing? I've tried it using a variable and also just > putting > a straight email address in but I can't get it to change. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From baccheschi at tin.it Tue Oct 13 06:19:12 2015 From: baccheschi at tin.it (baccheschi at tin.it) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:19:12 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Is it possible ? Message-ID: <15060b60286.baccheschi@tin.it> Hi everybody Is it possible that the command "wait for ..." compiled under window, does not work? Any suggestion about it will be welcome thank you very much Mario Baccheschi From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Oct 13 08:08:37 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:08:37 -0400 Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post In-Reply-To: References: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> <1444707947525-4697340.post@n4.nabble.com> <1444710128788-4697351.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: http://getwell.care/mobile/en This link works fine on my Android tablet. It looks very nice. Screenshot thumbnails enlarge when touched/clicked. There's a link to download the app from the app store, but I can't test that on this device obviously. On Oct 13, 2015 12:47 AM, "Charles Warwick" wrote: > > > > Charles Warwick wrote > >> http://getwell.care/mobile/en <http://getwell.care/mobile/en> > > > > Ahh shoot! > > Seems like this site is phishing, none of the links work for me. > > I guess not really a LiveCoder. > > I only briefly looked at the page at the time. > > The poster did make a number of comments on Slack that seemed to indicate > he was using LiveCode at least to some extent? > > Maybe he is on this list and can comment. > > Cheers, > > Charles > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 08:13:29 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:13:29 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> References: <1444669953145-4697266.post@n4.nabble.com> <561BF0B8.2080608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <70C2B089-21E8-4941-BE33-AED191EBB522@gmail.com> Here are a couple of functions that might be useful re timing processes. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ---------- function microsecs put the long seconds into s set the numberformat to "#.000000" add 0 to s replace "." with empty in s return s end microsecs function exactTime -- YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS.###### -- ie, down to microseconds -- times in this format can be arranged chronologically -- with an ordinary (non-numeric) sort command -- based on verboseTime() by Mark Talluto, Use-LC list -- revised by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com put the long seconds into s put char 1 to offset(".",s)-1 of s into dd convert dd to internet english date put word 5 of dd into tTime set the numberformat to "#.000000" add 0 to s put char -7 to -1 of s after tTime convert dd to dateitems put item 1 of dd into tYear put item 2 of dd into tMo put item 3 of dd into tDay set the numberformat to "00" add 0 to tMo add 0 to tDay return tYear & "-" & tMo & "-" & tDay && tTime end exactTime On Oct 12, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > BNig wrote: > >> BTW, what is a tick? Is that the imperial gallon of time? Or more a pint, a >> fluid ounce? >> I do kow that ticks bite and :) > > In other programming languages a tick is often a counter within some larger timer framework. > > In HyperTalk it was derived similarly, the default update rate for the early Mac OS vertical retrace subsystem. > > Throughout HyperTalk's life it was the most granular expression of time the language supported, since millisecond support was introduced to the xTalk world by MetaCard in 1992. > > The choice of tying the ticks to retrace was perhaps a necessity in early Mac OS systems, relying as they did on preemptive multitasking. But that reliance also made it an inexact quantity: by default the vertical retrace would happen 60 times a second, but it was possible to have some processes run long enough to stall it a bit now and then. > > But imprecise as it was it was all we had, so we used it. > > Today both ticks and milliseconds are independent of the display subsystem on all platforms, and generally more reliable. > > I migrated to milliseconds for benchmarking as soon as I became aware of them in MetaCard, since most routines are fast enough that the finer granularity is often useful. > > If you need even finer granularity you can use "the long seconds", but with any of them it's helpful to keep in mind the consideration Mark Wieder reminds us of: modern multi-tasking systems can have throughput affected by a great many considerations beyond our control. > > For this reason all benchmarks should be run multiple times with as few other processes running as practical, and even then their results should be taken with a grain of salt. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 09:12:13 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 06:12:13 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561D032D.9090503@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > The publish/subscribe stuff sounds great, especially since I just > found no newxxx messages are sent when creating a control from the > tools palette. I just ran a test: 1. Create a new stack 2. In the card script, add this: on newButton put the params && the millisecs end newButton 3. Drag a button from the LC IDE Tools palette onto the card Here the Message Box appears with "newbutton 1444741892267" What do you see? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Oct 13 09:28:22 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:28:22 -0400 Subject: Is it possible ? In-Reply-To: <15060b60286.baccheschi@tin.it> References: <15060b60286.baccheschi@tin.it> Message-ID: <15061633177-2a88-3b83@webprd-m46.mail.aol.com> Hi. I doubt it. This would have been noticed, er, a while ago. Can you give more details? Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: baccheschi To: use-livecode Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 6:19 am Subject: Is it possible ? Hi everybody Is it possible that the command "wait for ..." compiled under window, does not work? Any suggestion about it will be welcome thank you very much Mario Baccheschi _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at livecode.org Tue Oct 13 09:42:55 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:42:55 +0200 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value Message-ID: <147DE526-F18F-4591-8E8A-F5063B992660@livecode.org> Similar things are useful for a very specialized statistical evaluation I have to do soon, so I tested again with LC 7: There is an interesting difference between LC versions 6 and 7. The 'direct way' of GC reveals now as clearly fastest. Tested with one of GC's 12 MB strings on a Mac mini(i5 2.5 GHz), testString() as below, and a critical value of v=500000000. The (correct) result is 499999246, used time is in seconds. [a] LC 6.7.7 repeat-PMB 0.326 <- fastest repeat-GC 0.350 repeat-hh 0.445 sort-GC 0.985 [b] LC 7.1.0 repeat-PMB 3.562 repeat-GC 1.483 <- fastest, the only one with a factor < 9 repeat-hh 1163.0 <- an ARRAY BUG? :-( sort-GC 8.156 ------------------- function testString set randomseed to 1444826515 -- so you'll get exactly my test string repeat 1000000 put comma & random(1000000000) after L end repeat delete byte 1 of L return L end testString function repeatPMB L,v --[1] repeat for each item i in L if i < v then put comma & i after outL end repeat return max(outL) end repeatPMB function repeatGC L,v --[2] put empty into R repeat for each item i in L if i < v and i > R then put i into R end repeat return R end repeatGC function repeathh L,v --[3] repeat for each item i in L put comma & i after z[i < v] end repeat return max(z[true]) end repeathh function sortGC L,v --[4] sort items of L descending numeric sort items of L by (each >= v) return item 1 of L end sortGC From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 09:51:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 06:51:16 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <58C4901F-88AB-4AE0-8867-268D34FB493F@gmail.com> References: <58C4901F-88AB-4AE0-8867-268D34FB493F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561D0C54.1070000@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: > Again, I am influenced by Rebol. I've not used Rebol, but have read much of its documentation at various points over the years. Carl Sassenrath is an interesting thinker, and his language reflects some very unusual and intriguing concepts. Aside from MetaCard I've seen almost no other scripting language but Rebol that wholeheartedly embraced the concept of delivering applications over the wire. Way back in the day I imagined I might have enough time to flesh out some Rebol-like concepts in what was then called "Revolution", but this was as far as I had time to go: go url "http://fourthworld.net/channels/Revel.rev" Underneath that would be a lightweight syntax for describing objects similar to Rebol's auto-layout capabilities. I made just enough of it to allow sparse descriptions of objects and have them created on the fly in somewhat reasonable locations, but never had the time to take it as far as Rebol did. And like too many other things on my hard drive, without an immediate need for using it in actual work, I can't say I have any plans to get back to it. :) I'd be interested in your opinion on Rebol dialects: They seem a key feature of the language, an opportunity to create domain-specific languages from the core Rebol language. In this regard it seems a similar set of goals to the proposed Open Language initiative for LiveCode. Not directly the same, but similar in the way that many of Python's design goals almost perfectly parallel LiveCode's design goals, even though the expression of those goals has taken very different forms. Do you have any thoughts on the strengths or weaknesses of Rebol's approach vs LiveCode's for creating domain-specific dialects? >> To be fair '?' poses less of a problem in this regard than '.' - in >> terms of limiting future options that have been discussed at length >> in the past ;) > > I was surprised to read this as I started using this convention when > one of the LiveCode team commented on somebody?s code that used the > same convention and said ?some people in the office have started > using it?. Of course, I can no longer find the comment. If you think > it is an unwise convention to use to avoid name clashes, I will adopt > another one. Any suggestions as to a good approach/ A lot of xTalkers express Boolean functions with something list "Is*", e.g. "if IsList() then...". But given the support from the two Marks maybe it's not a bad thing at all for old-timers to learn new tricks. BTW: I like the tidy way your array contains not only the data but also the index value, keeping everything in one place. Nicely done. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Oct 13 09:53:20 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:53:20 +0100 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <147DE526-F18F-4591-8E8A-F5063B992660@livecode.org> References: <147DE526-F18F-4591-8E8A-F5063B992660@livecode.org> Message-ID: <561D0CD0.3090201@livecode.com> Hi Hermann, There's no array bug -- it's an aspect of its intentional behaviour. Appending to an element of an array always causes a copy, so you get O(N^2) complexity. Please re-test in LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-7, because there are some large performance optimisations in that release that may affect these results. In particular, I expect anything that uses "put after" outside an array to be much faster, and anything that uses sort to be faster (if I remember correctly). This Week in LiveCode has links to the pull requests, which explain exactly what's been made faster. Peter On 13/10/2015 14:42, hh wrote: > Similar things are useful for a very specialized statistical > evaluation I have to do soon, so I tested again with LC 7: > > There is an interesting difference between LC versions 6 and 7. > > The 'direct way' of GC reveals now as clearly fastest. > > Tested with one of GC's 12 MB strings on a Mac mini(i5 2.5 GHz), > testString() as below, and a critical value of v=500000000. > The (correct) result is 499999246, used time is in seconds. > > [a] LC 6.7.7 > repeat-PMB 0.326 <- fastest > repeat-GC 0.350 > repeat-hh 0.445 > sort-GC 0.985 > > [b] LC 7.1.0 > repeat-PMB 3.562 > repeat-GC 1.483 <- fastest, the only one with a factor < 9 > repeat-hh 1163.0 <- an ARRAY BUG? :-( > sort-GC 8.156 > > ------------------- > > function testString > set randomseed to 1444826515 > -- so you'll get exactly my test string > repeat 1000000 > put comma & random(1000000000) after L > end repeat > delete byte 1 of L > return L > end testString > > function repeatPMB L,v --[1] > repeat for each item i in L > if i < v then put comma & i after outL > end repeat > return max(outL) > end repeatPMB > > function repeatGC L,v --[2] > put empty into R > repeat for each item i in L > if i < v and i > R then put i into R > end repeat > return R > end repeatGC > > function repeathh L,v --[3] > repeat for each item i in L > put comma & i after z[i < v] > end repeat > return max(z[true]) > end repeathh > > function sortGC L,v --[4] > sort items of L descending numeric > sort items of L by (each >= v) > return item 1 of L > end sortGC > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From theresap72 at aol.com Tue Oct 13 09:56:57 2015 From: theresap72 at aol.com (Theresa Pettit) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:56:57 -0400 Subject: help changing the From address when sending email Message-ID: <150617d5d85-558-3c07@webprd-a95.mail.aol.com> Thanks so much to Ralph, Richard, Paul & David for all of the helpful advice. Hopefully I?ll finally be able to get it to work the way I want. If not, I?ll circle back around. Thanks! Theresa ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:29:15 +0100 From: "David Williams" To: "How to use LiveCode" Subject: Re: help changing the From address when sending email Hi Theresa, If you are needing to send email from a script and have it appear with the desired From: address, etc, you will need to follow at least the steps about email headers detailed in Ralph's response; mail servers tend to be very picky about how emails are formed. If you want to set up email accounts for use with your own domain at On-Rev, this is a lot simpler - Paul Hibbert explained it well in his response. Please feel free to drop us an email at On-Rev support if you need further assistance: http://on-rev.com/support/contact-us/ -David On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 05:24:39 +0100, Theresa Pettit wrote: > > > I'm very new to this so maybe I'm oversimplifying it in my head. Do I > really need to go through all of those steps? I do have a domain I > purchased but it's not being hosted anywhere at the moment. > > Is it possible somehow just have my domain connected to my on-rev server > account and then direct it to that to use as the from address or is it > more complicated requiring the extra steps below? > > Thanks, > Theresa > > > > ----------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 > 10:02:47 -0400 > From: "Ralph DiMola" > To: "'How to > use LiveCode'" > Subject: RE: help changing the From address when sending email > > > > > I thought sending email was an easy thing. It turns out in this > spam/virus > world we live it gets more complicated. > > First of all sending messages with a "from" other than your on-rev master > address is technically "spoofing". This is done legitimately all the time > with consultants running a server process on behalf of their customers. > There are several things one can do to prevent spam filters from having > heart failure. > > 1) Put a "mailfrom:ACCOUNTNAME at SERVERNAME.on-rev.com" in the email > header. > This give spam filters a valid path back to the on-rev server. > ACCOUNTNAME = master on-rev email address(login username) > SERVERNAME = Server name (i.e. diesel, thor....) > > 2) Put a "from:SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com" in the email header. > SPOOFEDADDRESS at SOMECOMPANY.com = is the email address you want the > recipient > to see. It should be a valid email. > > 3) put a "Message-Id: " in the email > header. > UNIQUE-ID = I use the LC uuid > > 4) put a "Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:48:57 +0200" in the email header. LC > Example: ("Date:" && the internet date) > > 5) put a "Subject: MY SUBJECT" in the email header. > > 5) If the email is html then also include a text version also. Not > including > a text version will up your spam score. > > 6) A short email body will up your spam score. > > 7) Non https images or links will up your spam score. > > 8) add a spf txt record to your DNS. This is not a show stopper. See > https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-an-spf-record-to > -prevent-spoofing-improve-e-mail-reliability for example. I am not > vouching > for this site it's just an example. Do a "spf txt record examples" search > for more information. > > There are on-line tools to test your spam score. Paste in the > email(including headers) and see your score. > > Before I did all this my X-AntiAbuse spam score was 12 out of 10. All my > email was flagged as spam. By doing the above steps (sans the spf > thingy) I > lowered it to -0.3 > > I am not an email expert and I'm sure this score could be lowered even > more > with more header tweaking but this get my emails delivered and not put > into > junk mail folders. > > I have done some major re-working of the example sendmail script. Let me > know if you would like me to send you my updated version. You may have to > change a few things to make it your own. > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Theresa > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:03 PM > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: help changing the From address when sending email > > > > I'm creating an app that needs to send an email to the user. I've gone > through the lesson about sending email through LiveCode Server here > http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4070/l/8184-sending-emails-from-livecode-server- > scripts > and I get the email to send but no matter what I seem to do, I can't get > the > "from" address to be anything but my server account email. Is there > something I'm missing? I've tried it using a variable and also just > putting > a straight email address in but I can't get it to change. From baccheschi at tin.it Tue Oct 13 10:03:35 2015 From: baccheschi at tin.it (baccheschi at tin.it) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 16:03:35 +0200 (CEST) Subject: R: Re: Is it possible ? Message-ID: <1506183712c.baccheschi@tin.it> ----Messaggio originale---- Da: dunbarx at aol.com Data: 13-ott-2015 15.28 A: Ogg: Re: Is it possible ? Hi. I doubt it. This would have been noticed, er, a while ago. Can you give more details? Craig Newman Thanks for your kind and prompt response I want to show and then hide an image that covers a field The waiting time can be seconds or ticks Thank you Mario -----Original Message----- From: baccheschi To: use-livecode Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 6:19 am Subject: Is it possible ? Hi everybody Is it possible that the command "wait for ..." compiled under window, does not work? Any suggestion about it will be welcome thank you very much Mario Baccheschi _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 10:07:08 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:07:08 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <088980AE-E249-4763-BEA6-AF20FFF88F76@livecode.org> References: <088980AE-E249-4763-BEA6-AF20FFF88F76@livecode.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 4:35 AM, hh wrote: > function getMaxLessThan tList,maxVal > repeat for each item i in tList > if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList > end repeat > return max(outList) > end getMaxLessThan > This returns 0 if there is no valid result, rather than empty. I modified it like this to get the correct result in that case: function getMaxLessThan tList,maxVal repeat for each item i in tList if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList end repeat if outList is empty then return empty else return max(outList) end getMaxLessThan I then created three test cases, searching for a small upper limit, a mid upper limit, and a high upper limit, as shown in the code. I saw variability in the results, so I wrote the test to run 10 times and take the average. Here are the results, running on a MB Pro in LC 6.7.3: Run Count: 10 Test ID: 1 Looking for greatest value < 500000000 sort 0.948062 499999481 repeat 0.347538 499999481 PMB 0.354209 499999481 Test ID: 2 Looking for greatest value < 5 sort 0.950574 repeat 0.225004 PMB 0.212485 Test ID: 3 Looking for greatest value < 999999995 sort 0.920444 999999683 repeat 0.442339 999999683 PMB 0.527431 999999683 In single runs I've seen PMB beat repeat on test 1. PMB is consistently slightly faster on test 2, and consistently slower (more than the difference on test 2) on test 3. Unless there is a difference based on hardware or LC version, I think it comes down to taste for which to use between the two. I never expected the sort version to be even as close as it was, but for most purposes even it would seem to be an okay choice. Code used: on mouseUp repeat 1000000 put random(1000000000),"" after L end repeat put 500000000 into testcase[1] put 5 into testcase[2] put 999999995 into testcase[3] put 10 into runCount repeat with i = 1 to runCount repeat with testID = 1 to 3 repeat for each item testType in "sort,repeat,PMB" put i && testID && testType into fld 3 put the long seconds into S do format("put greatestLessThan%s(L,testcase[%s]) into R[%s][%s]",testType,testID,testType,testID) add (the long seconds - S) to T[testType][testID] end repeat end repeat end repeat put "Run Count:" && runCount & cr & cr into fld 3 repeat with testID = 1 to 3 put "Test ID:" && testID && "Looking for greatest value <" && testcase[testID] & cr after fld 3 repeat for each item testType in "sort,repeat,PMB" put testType && T[testType][testID]/runCount && R[testType][testID] & cr after fld 3 end repeat put cr after fld 3 end repeat end mouseUp function greatestLessThanSort pList,V sort items of pList descending numeric sort items of pList by each >= V return item 1 of pList end greatestLessThanSort function greatestLessThanRepeat pList,V put empty into R repeat for each item i in pList if i < V and i > R then put i into R end repeat return R end greatestLessThanRepeat function greatestLessThanPMB tList,maxVal repeat for each item i in tList if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList end repeat if outList is empty then return empty else return max(outList) end greatestLessThanPMB From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Tue Oct 13 10:21:13 2015 From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 16:21:13 +0200 Subject: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark Done. http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16206 Hope that?s understandable enough. cheers Alan On 12 Oct 2015, at 9:36 pm, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Could you file a bug about this? I can't recall off the top of my head whether the fontName property of native controls passes through the fontmap. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 12 Oct 2015, at 19:44, Alan Stenhouse wrote: >> >> Thanks John + Scott. >> >> So, that doesn?t seem to be any clearer - 2 conflicting reports. I?ve also tried setting it to the display fontname and that works - but only when the postscript name is the same, AFAICS. >> >> I was testing on the simulator with iOS 8.2 and on device with iOS 7. >> >> The fontmap was (I think) introduced with 6.7 but at least here it?s not used. I guess I should get on and test this with LC7 + LC8? >> >> John, what version of LC did you test with? >> >> Thanks again >> >> Alan >> >>> On 12 Oct 2015, at 7:16 pm, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >>> >>> From: Scott Rossi >>> To: How to use LiveCode >>> Subject: Re: mobileControlSet "fontname" parameter >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>> >>> AFAIK, you do need to use the Postscript name, and the names are case sensitive. Also, the FontMap addition to the standalone builder allows you to define how a custom installed font name used in your stack maps to the font name on a device. And I may be mistaken but I believe the LiveCode folks have taken care of the default font mappings already (I believe Mark W commented on this some time back). >>> >>> Not sure if this was introduced after 6.7.6 however. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Scott Rossi >>> Creative Director >>> Tactile Media UX/UI Design From simon at asato-media.com Tue Oct 13 10:18:36 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT sort'a] Trying to find a post In-Reply-To: References: <1444707075250-4697337.post@n4.nabble.com> <70194CAF-B0B7-4F48-AF9E-4BD38F730B13@techstrategies.com.au> <1444707947525-4697340.post@n4.nabble.com> <1444710128788-4697351.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1444745916261-4697378.post@n4.nabble.com> Roger Eller wrote > http://getwell.care/mobile/en > > This link works fine on my Android tablet. It looks very nice. > Screenshot > thumbnails enlarge when touched/clicked. There's a link to download the > app from the app store, but I can't test that on this device obviously. Hi Roger, Yes, the link to the page does work, it's the links inside the page (Download App, Send a Message, Subscribe) that don't work. Very difficult to ask the owner a question ;) Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-sort-a-Trying-to-find-a-post-tp4697337p4697378.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 13 10:31:14 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:31:14 +0000 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <6C4F9A89-978F-42D0-8ECE-40CBD0F63941@iotecdigital.com> No. It means any files that are not stack files e.g.. fonts, graphics, pdf help files etc. Bob S On Oct 12, 2015, at 16:25 , William Prothero > wrote: The standalone settings for iOS allow for copying files, but the ?Copy Files? window states ?non-stack files?. Do this mean that all stacks in an iOS app must be substacks of the main stack? From mkoob at rogers.com Tue Oct 13 10:23:03 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Movie file in use prevents deletion of folder on external volume Mac OS X Message-ID: <1444746183317-4697380.post@n4.nabble.com> In my application I can movie a folder to the trash that has movie file in it that my application created by using an applescript with applescript's delete command. (*I use an applescript to delete it so the file and its contents are moved to trash, I tried revDeleteFolder but it just moves the folder to trash and its contents are permanently deleted.) This works when the folder and file are on the local hard disk. On an shared volume I get an error, "The operation can?t be completed because the item ?Test.mov? is in use." The movie had been opened in the player in the application but the player URL had been changed to a different movie before trying to delete the folder with the file in it. So the finder still seems to think my LiveCode app is using the movie file. Is there a way to have my application unload the movie so the finder will allow me to delete the folder containing it? Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Movie-file-in-use-prevents-deletion-of-folder-on-external-volume-Mac-OS-X-tp4697380.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 10:33:52 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:33:52 -0700 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561D0CD0.3090201@livecode.com> References: <561D0CD0.3090201@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561D1650.9050504@fourthworld.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 13/10/2015 14:42, hh wrote: >> There is an interesting difference between LC versions 6 and 7. >>... >> [a] LC 6.7.7 >> repeat-PMB 0.326 <- fastest >> repeat-GC 0.350 >> repeat-hh 0.445 >> sort-GC 0.985 >> >> [b] LC 7.1.0 >> repeat-PMB 3.562 >> repeat-GC 1.483 <- fastest, the only one with a factor < 9 >> repeat-hh 1163.0 <- an ARRAY BUG? :-( >> sort-GC 8.156 > > There's no array bug -- it's an aspect of its intentional behaviour. > Appending to an element of an array always causes a copy, so you get > O(N^2) complexity. Thanks for the background, Peter, but what accounts for the difference between version (v6 @ 0.445ms vs v7 @ 1163.0ms)? > Please re-test in LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-7, because there are some large > performance optimisations in that release that may affect these > results. Being part of LiveCode Script and not specific to Builder, will these changes also be in v7.x? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Oct 13 10:35:04 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:35:04 -0400 Subject: R: Re: Is it possible ? In-Reply-To: <1506183712c.baccheschi@tin.it> References: <1506183712c.baccheschi@tin.it> Message-ID: <15061a041f7-2a88-40aa@webprd-m46.mail.aol.com> Are you saying that the "wait" command you are already using is not working? That is what I thought you meant. If you test: repeat 3 show img "yourImage" wait 30 hide img "yourImage" wait 30 end repeat What happens? Craig -----Original Message----- From: baccheschi To: use-livecode Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 10:04 am Subject: R: Re: Is it possible ? ----Messaggio originale---- Da: dunbarx at aol.com Data: 13-ott-2015 15.28 A: Ogg: Re: Is it possible ? Hi. I doubt it. This would have been noticed, er, a while ago. Can you give more details? Craig Newman Thanks for your kind and prompt response I want to show and then hide an image that covers a field The waiting time can be seconds or ticks Thank you Mario -----Original Message----- From: baccheschi To: use-livecode Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 6:19 am Subject: Is it possible ? Hi everybody Is it possible that the command "wait for ..." compiled under window, does not work? Any suggestion about it will be welcome thank you very much Mario Baccheschi _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 13 10:40:38 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:40:38 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561D032D.9090503@fourthworld.com> References: <561D032D.9090503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I see nothing. My bug report has been confirmed so not sure why you see a message. Were you using lc8 dp7? On Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 6:12 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > The publish/subscribe stuff sounds great, especially since I just > > found no newxxx messages are sent when creating a control from the > > tools palette. > > I just ran a test: > > 1. Create a new stack > > 2. In the card script, add this: > > on newButton > put the params && the millisecs > end newButton > > 3. Drag a button from the LC IDE Tools palette onto the card > > Here the Message Box appears with "newbutton 1444741892267" > > What do you see? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Oct 13 10:41:32 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:41:32 +0100 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561D1650.9050504@fourthworld.com> References: <561D0CD0.3090201@livecode.com> <561D1650.9050504@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561D181C.4090100@livecode.com> On 13/10/2015 15:33, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter TB Brett wrote: > > > On 13/10/2015 14:42, hh wrote: > >> There is an interesting difference between LC versions 6 and 7. > >>... > >> [a] LC 6.7.7 > >> repeat-PMB 0.326 <- fastest > >> repeat-GC 0.350 > >> repeat-hh 0.445 > >> sort-GC 0.985 > >> > >> [b] LC 7.1.0 > >> repeat-PMB 3.562 > >> repeat-GC 1.483 <- fastest, the only one with a factor < 9 > >> repeat-hh 1163.0 <- an ARRAY BUG? :-( > >> sort-GC 8.156 > > > > There's no array bug -- it's an aspect of its intentional behaviour. > > Appending to an element of an array always causes a copy, so you get > > O(N^2) complexity. > > Thanks for the background, Peter, but what accounts for the difference > between version (v6 @ 0.445ms vs v7 @ 1163.0ms)? I don't know anything about the way arrays are implemented in LiveCode 6.x, so I can't tell you how they've changed. > > Please re-test in LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-7, because there are some large > > performance optimisations in that release that may affect these > > results. > > Being part of LiveCode Script and not specific to Builder, will these > changes also be in v7.x? The changes will be in 7.1.1-rc-1. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From hh at livecode.org Tue Oct 13 11:06:47 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:06:47 +0200 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value Message-ID: <334A5069-4A2C-4731-87BC-D85E419FC028@livecode.org> @P.T.B The average time needed is (testing gave me a break ...) [c] LC 8.0.0-dp7 repeat-PMB 3.794 repeat-GC 1.475 <- fastest repeat-hh 1165.0 <- :-( No difference to LC 7.1.0! sort-GC 7.240 I have indeed data strings of the tested size (10-15 MByte). Advanced statistical analysis without arrays is close to useless. And LC > 6 has the useful option to split and combine by delimiters of length > 1. Is the library 'com.livecode.foreign' a target of hope? p.s. Your HTML5-link from 'This Week in Livecode' forces me to improve that test. What a trick! ;-) @G.C. Of course is a large smaller-than-set the worst case for the PMBrepeat. But meanwhile I think, fully convinced by the tests with LC 7 and 8 (see above) that your 'direct' function greatestLessThanRepeat is the way to go. It works also great for smallestGreaterThan (without equality) or both: -- Here v is the critical value and v1,v2 are starting values -- for min and max, coming from a pre-knowledge about the data -- or for example v1=-10^16, v2=10^16 function miniMaxGC L,v,v1,v2 put v1 into vMax; put v2 into vMin repeat for each item i in pList if i < v and i > vMax then put i into vMax else if i > v and i < vMin then put i into vMin end repeat return ( vMax, v, vMin ) end miniMaxGC [Perhaps a switch will be better? Or eliminate at first v by "replace"?] From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 11:29:37 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:29:37 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: <088980AE-E249-4763-BEA6-AF20FFF88F76@livecode.org> Message-ID: I ran the same code in 7.0.3 and got this: Run Count: 10 Test ID: 1 Looking for greatest value < 500000000 sort 9.366217 499999338 repeat 1.764816 499999338 PMB 4.268512 499999338 Test ID: 2 Looking for greatest value < 5 sort 8.5548 repeat 1.534175 PMB 1.494919 Test ID: 3 Looking for greatest value < 999999995 sort 9.406507 999998573 repeat 1.842926 999998573 PMB 6.723159 999998573 Disappointing how much slower it is. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 11:35:12 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:35:12 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-12 22:31, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> That's an obvious option if we assume there must be only one IDE. And >> from the company's perspective that's a useful assumption, at least in >> as much as they need to provide at a solid basic toolkit to accompany >> the engine. > > Well, the engine is pretty useless in isolation without tools to be able > to build apps with it (unless of course you are happy with restricting > yourself to script libraries and using a text editor - which whilst > appropriate for some endeavours, for most purposes it would be extremely > tedious). Of course, which is why I wrote "they need to provide at a solid basic toolkit to accompany the engine". Thumbs up on the team's continued IDE efforts. Noting I've written is an "or". merely a "yes, and...." >> I've been using my own tools within every xTalk IDE I've used, and as >> long as frontScripts work and we pass messages as good citizens do, >> there's an opportunity to have LESS dependence on a large IDE >> framework rather than more. Or if we were to be thorough, a fairly >> slender one. > > I think you might be confusing 'IDE' with 'IDE Framework' here - they > are two quite distinct things. > >> Tools can be entirely self-contained and fully interchangeable, even >> open at the same time, using nothing more than what the engine has >> provided for years. > > Really? Are you sure that is true? > > So you would have every 'application browser' type tool implement its > own code for monitoring for changes in the user stacks, and for > collecting all the data about the objects in user stacks? > > You would have every 'tools palette' type tool implement its own code to > go digging around on disk for all extensions, listing, enumerating and > providing an ability to create them? > > You would have every 'documentation palette' type tool implements its > own code to go digging around on disk for the content it needs to > display, and then its own code for processing that content into the form > it wishes to display? > > You would have every 'standalone builder palette' type tool implement > its own code for building standalones? > > You would have every palette which wants a button on some sort of > 'launcher stack' have to understand how every 'independent' launcher > stack needs to be told to add its button? > > And assuming you would have that, how do you ensure that all these > components which can be used in a 'fully interchangeable' and in an > entirely 'self-contained' fashion don't actually interfere with each > other to the detriment of the user stacks they are acting upon? > > In order for any system to work where you can plug-and-play components > from different sources you need to have a common basis of communication > which provides the basic services all the components need to ensure that > they can be used together in the same environment without conflict. > Also, you need to ensure that said set of basic services is rich enough > that those that wish to write such components don't spend most of their > time re-inventing the wheel and can focus entirely on the purpose of > their component. > > Now, I see that you appear to regard the 'engine' with some sort of > magical prowess. Indeed, it does provide a 'standard' interface to a > common set of functionality that is exposed through its object model and > syntax; however, I'd assert that the engine's interface is not at a > high-enough level right now to give you what is needed for what you > dream of in terms of the 'bit that binds all these decentralised built > components together'. Thus any solution which provides the above > 'nirvana' in terms of interchangeable tools will end up relying on a > collection of script libraries which everyone's tools rely on and use to > ensure they can all co-exist together - i.e. you end up with precisely > the IDE Framework that I've been talking about. > > It is important to remember that 'framework' means precisely that - it > is scaffolding, policy, and ancillary services. A 'framework' is just > there to ensure that everything works together for its particular end > purpose - and good ones interfere as little as possible with the actual > action of the components which sit within them. > > Ideally, of course, the 'engine' would provide such an appropriate > high-level interface - a strong API - for tools written by disparate > parties acting together in a single environment to give users complete > choice in their toolkit for creating LiveCode applications... > > ... Sounds like a good way to approach that (given how much faster it is > to write LiveCode Script than C++) would be to provide the engine with a > standard set of script libraries which present a suitable high-level > interface for building IDE Tools to ensure tool writers (including > ourselves) can easily build tools... > > ... Which is rather like what we've been working on in the LC8 IDE ;) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. I refer to the engine with admiration only because we all understand that it's what runs all scripts, including those in an IDE. I rather like LiveCode Script, and find it very capable. The existence of any IDE suggests it's useful for making those sorts of things. It's possible to invest our time enumerating reasons why people shouldn't enjoy crafting tools in LiveCode, but to what end? Any IDE (or IDE "tool" or "framework" or any other subset) is just a collections of stacks. The one thing we know about LiveCode programmers is that they know how to program in LiveCode. Many of them are quite good at it. I see no harm in encouraging people to just continue doing what they've been enjoying for decades: making tools to help their work and sharing them with others. Indeed, I see no way to stop them. :) All of the tools I've referred to - Mark Weider's, Bjornke's, Geoff's, Peter's, and others' - exist. Why not have more? Why not have a convenient launcher for them? Why not explore new ways of authoring in LiveCode? Why not have an IDE for pro devs, another for kids, and other for educators, and others for just about anything people might want to do? Maybe even one for weirdos who like to play with exploratory skunkworks projects. Sometimes useful discoveries come from such explorations. It's possible to imagine a perfect circle, but in the natural world none exists. All systems are imperfect, influenced by subtle but pervasive forces that ultimately alter them from their ideal form. Anything that seems otherwise lives in the space between design specs and shipping. :) Even the OSes we love are riddled with kludgey workarounds - not that we should pursue kludges, but it's no more useful to postpone everything until a perfect system exists. Ultimately you and I are describing the same goal, a modular and lightweight IDE system in which tools are plentiful and interchangeable, something Ken Ray and others have been advocating since the engine acquisition in 2003. And there is one salient aspect: neither of us is describing an IDE that exists today. All I'm offering here is encouragement for the things that led to this thread, an acknowledgement that some folks like the App Browser and others like the Project Browser and still others like Geoff Canyon's Navigator and others like their own. And the same goes for object creation tools, and inspectors, and the rest. Of course the core dev team should also continue doing what they're doing too. And over time each can learn from the other. Play, explore, create, share. Let a thousand flowers bloom. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 11:37:12 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:37:12 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561D2528.4050806@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > I see nothing. My bug report has been confirmed so not sure why you > see a message. Were you using lc8 dp7? Ah, thanks - that's it. I'm using the current shipping product, v7.1. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 11:40:28 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:40:28 -0700 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <561D181C.4090100@livecode.com> References: <561D181C.4090100@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561D25EC.7090504@fourthworld.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 13/10/2015 15:33, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >> > On 13/10/2015 14:42, hh wrote: >> >> There is an interesting difference between LC versions 6 and 7. >> >>... >> >> [a] LC 6.7.7 >> >> repeat-PMB 0.326 <- fastest >> >> repeat-GC 0.350 >> >> repeat-hh 0.445 >> >> sort-GC 0.985 >> >> >> >> [b] LC 7.1.0 >> >> repeat-PMB 3.562 >> >> repeat-GC 1.483 <- fastest, the only one with a factor < 9 >> >> repeat-hh 1163.0 <- an ARRAY BUG? :-( >> >> sort-GC 8.156 >> > >> > There's no array bug -- it's an aspect of its intentional behaviour. >> > Appending to an element of an array always causes a copy, so you get >> > O(N^2) complexity. >> >> Thanks for the background, Peter, but what accounts for the difference >> between version (v6 @ 0.445ms vs v7 @ 1163.0ms)? > > I don't know anything about the way arrays are implemented in LiveCode > 6.x, so I can't tell you how they've changed. I keep hoping to find some time to learn C++ well enough to figure out things like that on my own, but between bash and JavaScript and Python already filling my weekends it's been hard to get the time. Hopefully one day... >> > Please re-test in LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-7, because there are some large >> > performance optimisations in that release that may affect these >> > results. >> >> Being part of LiveCode Script and not specific to Builder, will these >> changes also be in v7.x? > > The changes will be in 7.1.1-rc-1. Super-cool, Peter. Thanks! -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 12:05:38 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:05:38 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561C6845.50402@ahsoftware.net> References: <561C6845.50402@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <561D2BD2.4060007@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/12/2015 01:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> 1. How do we open them? Currently third-party tools are relegated to >> the Plugins submenu, but crafting a launcher tool rack is simple >> stuff, and equally simple to just hide the current IDE's toolbar >> (which I've been doing for years - I go weeks at a time without ever >> seeing it). > > Check out some things in the revIDELibrary. For instance, the > revIDEPaletteToStackName() and revIDEAvailablePalettes() functions. > They're hard-coded for now, but the plan is to open them up when the > references in the IDE stacks are refactored. And look at the publish > and subscribe functions as well, which will allow IDE component > replacements to register interest in certain IDE messages and respond > to them. A while back I was reading about Linux' ibus and got inspired to start playing around with an experimental library for a similar system in LiveCode, a sort of "message bus" where one could define messages as hierarchical paths and assign listeners to them at any point in the path. For example, imagine a set of message buses defined as: /ide/tools/init /ide/tools/update /app/data/recordChanged /app/data/tableChanged /ahsoftware/glx/scriptChanged With those, any IDE tool palette could subscribe to the first two buses, your app's data views could subscribe to that third and fourth buses, anything that needs to know when a script has changed in your editor could subscribe to that last bus. But with these "message buses" expressed as hierarchies, anything that needs notification of any GLX messages could just subscribe to "/ahsoftware/glx" without having to bind to every message individually, and receive all messages sent to that path or anything below it. Similarly, IDE tools could subscribe to /ide/tools to get all tool-related message, and an app's data views might subscribe to /app/data to get all of those notifications. Generic bus monitoring tools could be made by binding to "/". When a subscribed object receives the dispatched message, the message itself is just the last element in the path (e.g., "scriptChanged"). In cases where an object may need to distinguish between messages which may have the same name but coming from different parts of the bus hierarchy a function is provided to obtain the full path of the dispatched message. My current implementation only handles messages and managing subscriptions to them, but it wouldn't be hard to borrow other ideas from ibus to include data at those paths as well, or even metadata which might contain the long ID of the sender and a timestamp of when that data changed. It would seem a lot of things might become much simpler with hierarchical binding. If this seems useful to anyone I'll see if I can get some time to put together a demo stack more usable than my thrown-together unlabeled buttons and post it somewhere. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Oct 13 12:07:00 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:07:00 +0100 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561D2528.4050806@fourthworld.com> References: <561D2528.4050806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <88FABE5E-C7F6-4CAB-9A98-D7EB78813F06@livecode.com> Hi Richard, Just because LiveCode 8 hasn't got all its eventual features yet doesn't mean it can't, or indeed shouldn't, be used for creating and shipping production apps. Many people are doing so quite successfully. "Developer Preview" is actually a misleading term for describing LiveCode 8's current state. We both sell and provide full support for LiveCode 8, and in that respect it's certainly a "shipping product". However, we reserve the option to change its behaviour. With LiveCode 7, which is "stable", we don't have that luxury. Peter On 13 October 2015 16:37:12 BST, Richard Gaskin wrote: >Peter Haworth wrote: > > I see nothing. My bug report has been confirmed so not sure why you > > see a message. Were you using lc8 dp7? > >Ah, thanks - that's it. I'm using the current shipping product, v7.1. > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 12:18:47 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:18:47 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <88FABE5E-C7F6-4CAB-9A98-D7EB78813F06@livecode.com> References: <88FABE5E-C7F6-4CAB-9A98-D7EB78813F06@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561D2EE7.4040608@fourthworld.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > Hi Richard, > > Just because LiveCode 8 hasn't got all its eventual features yet > doesn't mean it can't, or indeed shouldn't, be used for creating and > shipping production apps. Many people are doing so quite successfully. > > "Developer Preview" is actually a misleading term for describing > LiveCode 8's current state. We both sell and provide full support > for LiveCode 8, and in that respect it's certainly a "shipping > product". Yes, good point. I understand this audience is quite diverse and folks use a lot of different versions. A lot of folks I know still use v6.x, and I have one friend who continued to ship with v5.5.4. I didn't mean to imply that v8 wasn't supported, merely that it does seem to have a lot of regressions (understandable at this stage), so it seems helpful to manage expectations while those are being sorted out. > However, we reserve the option to change its behaviour. With LiveCode > 7, which is "stable", we don't have that luxury. True, but most of my friends and clients have tons of good work they can do in v7 as its Dictionary defines it right now. We just need to make sure it does what the Dictionary says it does, so it's reassuring to see that the v7 engine being the foundation for v8 is paying off nicely for both versions. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 13 12:18:56 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:18:56 -0700 Subject: LC8 Widget Documentation Message-ID: Looking for a function that will return the documentation created for a widget. The revIDEExtensionsLibrary has a function named revIDEExtensionDocsData but it returns only author and title for every installed widget. I know where the JSON file is for each widget and could parse it myself but would much rather find an "official" way to do it. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 12:24:31 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:24:31 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561D2EE7.4040608@fourthworld.com> References: <561D2EE7.4040608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561D303F.4080805@fourthworld.com> Correction - I had written: A lot of folks I know still use v6.x, and I have one friend who continued to ship with v5.5.4. That sentence makes more sense when I type the "s" I'd intended rather than a "d": A lot of folks I know still use v6.x, and I have one friend who continues to ship with v5.5.4. One of the things I like about the forums is that I can safely write posts there before coffee, knowing I can clean up my typos later. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mkoob at rogers.com Tue Oct 13 12:18:44 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: resolved: Movie file in use prevents deletion of folder on external volume Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <1444746183317-4697380.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444746183317-4697380.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1444753124953-4697395.post@n4.nabble.com> I resolved the problem. It seems on a shared volume there is a lag before the finder recognizes that the file is no longer in use by the LiveCode application. (it does not occur on a local volume) If I send the message to run my applescript in 500 ms then the finder won't give the error message 'file in use'. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Movie-file-in-use-prevents-deletion-of-folder-on-external-volume-Mac-OS-X-tp4697380p4697395.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Oct 13 13:58:53 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:58:53 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <6CFEAA27-CE24-4D2B-B103-2DD06038DA9B@livecode.com> References: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> <6CFEAA27-CE24-4D2B-B103-2DD06038DA9B@livecode.com> Message-ID: <8396DE9A-B499-4376-923D-4773B61753BB@earthednet.org> Heather: I use the lessons.runrev site a lot. It has loads of good information. One limitation though, is that it takes us through the beginning steps, but often stops at the very useful stage. For example, the database lesson is great for local databases, but is not practical for server based databases. I don?t mean to complain. It?s good, as far as it goes, but?.. And?(aside).. I had NO IDEA that you could put images in text fields. Wonderful! For me, this is big! As an example of a challenge I had recently was trying to get the names of members of a group. Finally, after a load of Google searching, I found that I had to get the number of members first, then cycle through each member to get a list of the names. It took me quite a while to find it and I searched with Google, the lessons, and Mark Schonewille?s excellent book where it didn?t seem to appear in the index. Simple, but opaque for the beginner. Also, do we call them ?controls?, ?objects?, ?items?, ?keys?, etc. Easy for the experienced, but opaque for the newbie. Anyway, the very beginner needs basic stuff, but as she progresses, what is going to be on her/his mind is more task oriented. Like ?how do I get a list of members of a group?? or ?how should I organize my project??, etc.The new course derived from the CreateIT course will be very helpful. However, it?s going to take the programmer quite a bit of poking around to find an answer to ?how do I do xyz? Which lesson is it in? etc. Most of us do not start our learning at the beginning and work through all features. We jump in, create something, think of a project, then start on it. I really think this would benefit by being a community project. It should link to or include the runrev.lessons. I?m not suggesting a wiki, but nevertheless the wiki software is very good at community created information, keeping track of revisions, commenting, etc. It would seem to be a very low cost implementation, but of course it would have to fit into ?bigger picture? concerns I?m not aware of. Incidentally, I found the explanation of how to use the datagrid to make a notes list very informative in the Create-IT course. Index and search are critical, and very challenging. I find my most effective, first use tool is Google. It searches the lessons, the forums, and other folks? livecode sites too. Those are my ideas at this point, sent from the perspective of a moderately experienced new user. Best, Bill > On Oct 12, 2015, at 1:35 AM, Heather Laine wrote: > > Folks...an awful lot of this "cookbook" type material is available at > > http://lessons.runrev.com > > There is a comments facility, and when this was originally set up we invited community contributions. A number of people did contribute but for some considerable time now the only contributions have been from our staff. > > If anyone is really keen to contribute here I'm sure it could be arranged. > > Regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 11 Oct 2015, at 22:38, Michael Doub wrote: >> >> Would it be reasonable to ask Livecode to host a wiki site for documentation and examples? I kind of like the idea of having the ability to add information or update when I see something that it out of date or unclear. >> >> The problem is always organization and searching. This would still need to be dealt with, but the wiki idea lets the community contribute and edit. >> >> Sorry if this is out of context. I am just catching back up on email. >> >> -= Mike >> >> >> On 10/11/15 1:34 PM, William Prothero wrote: >>> Richard: >>> Thanks for the info. I think a task-driven cookbook does really need to be community developed. There are so many emails here that ask ?how do I do xyz?? or ?xyz won?t work? why?? Compiling these, with dates and keywords, and a user commenting facility, would go a long way toward accomplishing this. If there was a web site where users could make these contributions and a reviewer of some sort could edit them prior to inclusion in the ?master cookbook?, that might work. >>> >>> For me, my main frustration is getting an app onto iPhone. There is a tutorial on the livecode site, which helped me a lot. Later, after I forgot its details, I tried to make a new iOS app and got burned by the provisioning profile, which I tried to make generic, but LC wouldn?t accept a generic one. When I went back to the original tutorial, I got it working, but it took me more than a day to get there. So, I dread my next try at iOS. Also, getting an Apple certificate is another hurdle and I haven?t accomplished that yet, as I?ve been tryin got use AppWrapper 3 and it won?t work. Some kind of cookbook, that could be updated as Apple adds new hurdles and requirements, would be marvelous. >>> >>> I have a ?Notebook? app that has the following headings. The headings I use currently are shown below. There are sub-headings with specific code and for different applications. It is just a collection, saved from the email list over the last two years for my own use and not refined for mass distribution. >>> >>> Array handling >>> Behaviors >>> Calling handlers, out of path hierarchy >>> CEF Browser >>> Code signing >>> Color-mouse-at loc >>> Date >>> DataGrid >>> Debugger use and tricks >>> Detect if app is running and user is "on" it. >>> DNS mysteries >>> Drag and Drop >>> Email thru livecode server >>> Encryption >>> Fields, text display >>> Files and directories >>> Find out if some program is running >>> Get Mac camera image >>> Get Version in iOS >>> Graphic effects >>> Groups >>> Images >>> iOS mobile stuff >>> Learning materials links >>> Memory monitoring >>> MobGui >>> Mobile Copying stacks and using them as libraries >>> Number precision >>> PHP and databases >>> Playing sound in SA and Mobile >>> Playing sounds >>> Printing >>> Product version from script >>> Scientific notation converter >>> Screen scaling issues >>> SnapShots >>> Scrolling >>> Server stuff >>> Sorting >>> Sockets >>> SSH Tunneling >>> Ssh and secure transfer >>> Stacks and substacks >>> Text Code: Parsing Delimited >>> Text-Rotating >>> Text to speech >>> Text >>> Time Zone Info >>> User function names-getting them from scripts >>> Video >>> Widgets >>> >>> Best, >>> Bill >>> >>>> On Oct 10, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> >>>> William Prothero wrote: >>>> >>>>> I said we need a dictionary focussed on tasks, not on commands, >>>>> but obviously we need both. I know Richard has been leading a >>>>> group taking this on. Richard, is this happening? >>>> The focus of an API reference like the LiveCode Dictionary will always have the language tokens as their primary index. This can (and arguably should) be augmented with tags to support searching for strings conceptually related but not found in the token itself or its description. I believe that's been put into place for the future, but regrettably not available in the current shipping product v7. >>>> >>>> Task-driven documentation is traditionally the domain of things like "Cookbooks". That format allows for the exploration of related concepts in a more detailed way that would be clumsy or even distracting in a Dictionary. IIRC LiveCode 1.0 had Cookbook, but I'm not sure when it was dropped. >>>> >>>> To answer your question about the Community Documentation Team, over the last year the core team at LiveCode Ltd. has been migrating all documentation content into Github markdown so that it can not only be more easily edited but also reviewed, merged, and compiled into the product build more easily as well. >>>> >>>> Peter Brett at LiveCode Ltd. has taken on the role of stewarding community engagement projects like this one, and the process of migrating the content to markdown is now far enough along that my next meeting with Dr. Brett will focus on conveying the dynamics of the workflow so we can get to work. >>>> >>>> The scope defined for the moment, however, is to update existing docs. >>>> >>>> If there's a desire for a Cookbook I would encourage the community to consider establishing a wiki for that. Indeed, there is one at wikia.com which may be a good starting point: >>>> >>>> >>>> To help guide such an effort, let me ask you a question related to the CreateIt course you mentioned: >>>> >>>> You've been using LiveCode for many years, and have made some substantial software with it. At this point in your work, what topics would you find most valuable? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> LiveCode Community Manager >>>> richard at livecode.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Tue Oct 13 14:55:42 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:55:42 +0000 Subject: Movie file in use prevents deletion of folder on external volume Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <1444746183317-4697380.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444746183317-4697380.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Through the years I have learned to ?untether? LC before such operations. There are several scenarios: Set the defaultFolder to empty (if you are logged into files on a volume over the LAN) set the filename of image to empty (if you are showing and image on a remote volume) set the filename of the player to empty that sort of thing.. *then* touch your files on disk ? or save or quit or whatever that might be prevented by the ?anchor? to some file or folder in the LC app. On 10/13/15, 4:23 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Martin Koob" wrote: >In my application I can movie a folder to the trash that has movie file in >it that my application created by using an applescript with applescript's >delete command. >(*I use an applescript to delete it so the file and its contents are moved >to trash, I tried revDeleteFolder but it just moves the folder to trash and >its contents are permanently deleted.) > >This works when the folder and file are on the local hard disk. > >On an shared volume I get an error, "The operation can?t be completed >because the item ?Test.mov? is in use." > >The movie had been opened in the player in the application but the player >URL had been changed to a different movie before trying to delete the folder >with the file in it. > >So the finder still seems to think my LiveCode app is using the movie file. >Is there a way to have my application unload the movie so the finder will >allow me to delete the folder containing it? > >Martin > From heather at livecode.com Tue Oct 13 15:29:08 2015 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:29:08 +0100 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <8396DE9A-B499-4376-923D-4773B61753BB@earthednet.org> References: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> <6CFEAA27-CE24-4D2B-B103-2DD06038DA9B@livecode.com> <8396DE9A-B499-4376-923D-4773B61753BB@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <97985BD6-DA3F-4B97-B29E-7D4564D06E83@livecode.com> The lessons site is not the be-all and end-all. A users wiki might be a good thing to add to it. However, I am also in favour of improving what we have, rather than attempting to replace it wholesale because its not perfect. A great way to ensure this happens is to request a lesson on any particular topic you want the answer to. If you can't find the answer chances are lots of other people can't either, and a lesson would be a good thing to add. Requests can be submitted to support at livecode.com . Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 13 Oct 2015, at 18:58, William Prothero wrote: > > Heather: > I use the lessons.runrev site a lot. It has loads of good information. One limitation though, is that it takes us through the beginning steps, but often stops at the very useful stage. For example, the database lesson is great for local databases, but is not practical for server based databases. I don?t mean to complain. It?s good, as far as it goes, but?.. > > And?(aside).. I had NO IDEA that you could put images in text fields. Wonderful! For me, this is big! > > As an example of a challenge I had recently was trying to get the names of members of a group. Finally, after a load of Google searching, I found that I had to get the number of members first, then cycle through each member to get a list of the names. It took me quite a while to find it and I searched with Google, the lessons, and Mark Schonewille?s excellent book where it didn?t seem to appear in the index. Simple, but opaque for the beginner. Also, do we call them ?controls?, ?objects?, ?items?, ?keys?, etc. Easy for the experienced, but opaque for the newbie. > > Anyway, the very beginner needs basic stuff, but as she progresses, what is going to be on her/his mind is more task oriented. Like ?how do I get a list of members of a group?? or ?how should I organize my project??, etc.The new course derived from the CreateIT course will be very helpful. However, it?s going to take the programmer quite a bit of poking around to find an answer to ?how do I do xyz? Which lesson is it in? etc. Most of us do not start our learning at the beginning and work through all features. We jump in, create something, think of a project, then start on it. > > I really think this would benefit by being a community project. It should link to or include the runrev.lessons. I?m not suggesting a wiki, but nevertheless the wiki software is very good at community created information, keeping track of revisions, commenting, etc. It would seem to be a very low cost implementation, but of course it would have to fit into ?bigger picture? concerns I?m not aware of. > > Incidentally, I found the explanation of how to use the datagrid to make a notes list very informative in the Create-IT course. > > Index and search are critical, and very challenging. I find my most effective, first use tool is Google. It searches the lessons, the forums, and other folks? livecode sites too. > > Those are my ideas at this point, sent from the perspective of a moderately experienced new user. > Best, > Bill > >> On Oct 12, 2015, at 1:35 AM, Heather Laine wrote: >> >> Folks...an awful lot of this "cookbook" type material is available at >> >> http://lessons.runrev.com >> >> There is a comments facility, and when this was originally set up we invited community contributions. A number of people did contribute but for some considerable time now the only contributions have been from our staff. >> >> If anyone is really keen to contribute here I'm sure it could be arranged. >> >> Regards, >> >> Heather >> >> Heather Laine >> Customer Services Manager >> LiveCode Ltd >> www.livecode.com >> >> >> >>> On 11 Oct 2015, at 22:38, Michael Doub wrote: >>> >>> Would it be reasonable to ask Livecode to host a wiki site for documentation and examples? I kind of like the idea of having the ability to add information or update when I see something that it out of date or unclear. >>> >>> The problem is always organization and searching. This would still need to be dealt with, but the wiki idea lets the community contribute and edit. >>> >>> Sorry if this is out of context. I am just catching back up on email. >>> >>> -= Mike >>> >>> >>> On 10/11/15 1:34 PM, William Prothero wrote: >>>> Richard: >>>> Thanks for the info. I think a task-driven cookbook does really need to be community developed. There are so many emails here that ask ?how do I do xyz?? or ?xyz won?t work? why?? Compiling these, with dates and keywords, and a user commenting facility, would go a long way toward accomplishing this. If there was a web site where users could make these contributions and a reviewer of some sort could edit them prior to inclusion in the ?master cookbook?, that might work. >>>> >>>> For me, my main frustration is getting an app onto iPhone. There is a tutorial on the livecode site, which helped me a lot. Later, after I forgot its details, I tried to make a new iOS app and got burned by the provisioning profile, which I tried to make generic, but LC wouldn?t accept a generic one. When I went back to the original tutorial, I got it working, but it took me more than a day to get there. So, I dread my next try at iOS. Also, getting an Apple certificate is another hurdle and I haven?t accomplished that yet, as I?ve been tryin got use AppWrapper 3 and it won?t work. Some kind of cookbook, that could be updated as Apple adds new hurdles and requirements, would be marvelous. >>>> >>>> I have a ?Notebook? app that has the following headings. The headings I use currently are shown below. There are sub-headings with specific code and for different applications. It is just a collection, saved from the email list over the last two years for my own use and not refined for mass distribution. >>>> >>>> Array handling >>>> Behaviors >>>> Calling handlers, out of path hierarchy >>>> CEF Browser >>>> Code signing >>>> Color-mouse-at loc >>>> Date >>>> DataGrid >>>> Debugger use and tricks >>>> Detect if app is running and user is "on" it. >>>> DNS mysteries >>>> Drag and Drop >>>> Email thru livecode server >>>> Encryption >>>> Fields, text display >>>> Files and directories >>>> Find out if some program is running >>>> Get Mac camera image >>>> Get Version in iOS >>>> Graphic effects >>>> Groups >>>> Images >>>> iOS mobile stuff >>>> Learning materials links >>>> Memory monitoring >>>> MobGui >>>> Mobile Copying stacks and using them as libraries >>>> Number precision >>>> PHP and databases >>>> Playing sound in SA and Mobile >>>> Playing sounds >>>> Printing >>>> Product version from script >>>> Scientific notation converter >>>> Screen scaling issues >>>> SnapShots >>>> Scrolling >>>> Server stuff >>>> Sorting >>>> Sockets >>>> SSH Tunneling >>>> Ssh and secure transfer >>>> Stacks and substacks >>>> Text Code: Parsing Delimited >>>> Text-Rotating >>>> Text to speech >>>> Text >>>> Time Zone Info >>>> User function names-getting them from scripts >>>> Video >>>> Widgets >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Bill >>>> >>>>> On Oct 10, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>>> >>>>> William Prothero wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I said we need a dictionary focussed on tasks, not on commands, >>>>>> but obviously we need both. I know Richard has been leading a >>>>>> group taking this on. Richard, is this happening? >>>>> The focus of an API reference like the LiveCode Dictionary will always have the language tokens as their primary index. This can (and arguably should) be augmented with tags to support searching for strings conceptually related but not found in the token itself or its description. I believe that's been put into place for the future, but regrettably not available in the current shipping product v7. >>>>> >>>>> Task-driven documentation is traditionally the domain of things like "Cookbooks". That format allows for the exploration of related concepts in a more detailed way that would be clumsy or even distracting in a Dictionary. IIRC LiveCode 1.0 had Cookbook, but I'm not sure when it was dropped. >>>>> >>>>> To answer your question about the Community Documentation Team, over the last year the core team at LiveCode Ltd. has been migrating all documentation content into Github markdown so that it can not only be more easily edited but also reviewed, merged, and compiled into the product build more easily as well. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Brett at LiveCode Ltd. has taken on the role of stewarding community engagement projects like this one, and the process of migrating the content to markdown is now far enough along that my next meeting with Dr. Brett will focus on conveying the dynamics of the workflow so we can get to work. >>>>> >>>>> The scope defined for the moment, however, is to update existing docs. >>>>> >>>>> If there's a desire for a Cookbook I would encourage the community to consider establishing a wiki for that. Indeed, there is one at wikia.com which may be a good starting point: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To help guide such an effort, let me ask you a question related to the CreateIt course you mentioned: >>>>> >>>>> You've been using LiveCode for many years, and have made some substantial software with it. At this point in your work, what topics would you find most valuable? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Richard Gaskin >>>>> LiveCode Community Manager >>>>> richard at livecode.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From martyknappster at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 15:57:23 2015 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:57:23 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness Message-ID: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a "zoom view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is anything but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of a stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft or from the center of the stack too. I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. Anybody else played with this? Marty K From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Oct 13 16:07:55 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:07:55 -0500 Subject: Custom radio button icons Message-ID: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> I need to assign a custom icon for a whole lot of radio buttons. I want them to use the same spacing as the default radio button: icon at the left, a small margin, then the button text. Assigning a custom icon draws it at the right. Setting the textalign to "right" moves the icon to the correct place at the left, but the button text is pushed to the right margin. I want the text to be offset the same distance from the icon as the default radio button. I can resize the button to push the text over to the left, but I don't want to because the stack is internationalized and every button is currently wide enough to accomodate all languages it supports. If I set the iconGravity to "left" instead, the icon and text are drawn on top of each other at the left margin. If I really do have to resize them all, it will have to be dynamically on preOpenCard which I'd like to avoid. It seems like there has to be an easier way. Is there? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Oct 13 16:07:15 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:07:15 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: Many of us tried to do the same thing when the feature was first announced. Unfortunately, you can't really use it for a zoom effect, at least not since I last looked into this. As you've seen, the stack jumps around as the scale is changed, and even if you reposition it dynamically, the results aren't the best. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/13/15, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" wrote: >I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a "zoom >view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in >terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is anything >but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of a >stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. > >It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft or >from the center of the stack too. > >I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. >Anybody else played with this? > >Marty K > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Oct 13 16:21:27 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:21:27 +0000 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: <39CFE2EF-7F43-43D7-A221-FC9AFCFE9DC9@byu.edu> > On Oct 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Marty Knapp wrote: > > I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a "zoom view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is anything but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of a stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. > > It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft or from the center of the stack too. > > I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. Anybody else played with this? Marty, Is what you?re seeing anything like I wrote in this bug report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13883 I included a screen capture of what was happening. If your issue seems like the same thing, leave a comment on the bug report. It would be nice if the mother ship could tighten this feature up a bit. Regards, Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Oct 13 16:23:06 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:23:06 +0000 Subject: Custom radio button icons In-Reply-To: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 13, 2015, at 2:07 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > I need to assign a custom icon for a whole lot of radio buttons. I want them to use the same spacing as the default radio button: icon at the left, a small margin, then the button text. > > Assigning a custom icon draws it at the right. Setting the textalign to "right" moves the icon to the correct place at the left, but the button text is pushed to the right margin. I want the text to be offset the same distance from the icon as the default radio button. > > I can resize the button to push the text over to the left, but I don't want to because the stack is internationalized and every button is currently wide enough to accomodate all languages it supports. > > If I set the iconGravity to "left" instead, the icon and text are drawn on top of each other at the left margin. > > If I really do have to resize them all, it will have to be dynamically on preOpenCard which I'd like to avoid. It seems like there has to be an easier way. Is there? Jacque, I?ve run into this before, and the only thing I was able to do was adjust the right margin to push the text to the left to where I wanted it. Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Oct 13 16:51:34 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:51:34 -0700 Subject: Custom radio button icons In-Reply-To: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The only way I could figure out how to do this is to set the textAlign to left, the iconGravity to left, and insert a fixed amount of space characters before the button's text label. There really should be easier way to do this, like having a separate iconMargin property to position the icon independently of the text. (Whoever came up with "iconGravity" as the icon alignment property name will have to choose something equally scifi for icon margins, like "iconForceField" or "iconWarpBarrier"). Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/13/15, 1:07 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" wrote: >I need to assign a custom icon for a whole lot of radio buttons. I want >them to use the same spacing as the default radio button: icon at the >left, a small margin, then the button text. > >Assigning a custom icon draws it at the right. Setting the textalign to >"right" moves the icon to the correct place at the left, but the button >text is pushed to the right margin. I want the text to be offset the >same distance from the icon as the default radio button. > >I can resize the button to push the text over to the left, but I don't >want to because the stack is internationalized and every button is >currently wide enough to accomodate all languages it supports. > >If I set the iconGravity to "left" instead, the icon and text are drawn >on top of each other at the left margin. > >If I really do have to resize them all, it will have to be dynamically >on preOpenCard which I'd like to avoid. It seems like there has to be an >easier way. Is there? > >-- >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From Nakia.Brewer at westrac.com.au Tue Oct 13 16:59:56 2015 From: Nakia.Brewer at westrac.com.au (Nakia Brewer) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:59:56 +0000 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <67116DB20798A94285EEE12A67079A28F61DF3A5@MALEXC01.westrac.com.au> Hi Monte, By any chance will mergBLE work with the community edition on OSX? Nakia Brewer| WesTrac Pty Ltd | Technology Enabled Solutions Manager | Equipment Management Solutions | 1 WesTrac Drive, Tomago NSW 2322 t: (02) 4964 5051 |m: 0458 713 547 | i: www.westrac.com.au ACN 009 342 572 Our applicable terms and conditions can be found at: WesTrac Terms & Conditions -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Monte Goulding Sent: Monday, 12 October 2015 1:32 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price Hi LiveCoders Today I am releasing a huge update to mergExt Complete and announcing a special price available for the rest of the month. mergBLE 1.0 - CoreBluetooth external for iOS and OS X. Use BLE between Mac and iOS or between iOS devices or between some of the great sensors available and your app. For the arduino hackers out there you will love pairing this external with the ReadBearLab BLE shield. Control anything from your Mac or iOS device!!! (Also sold separately for $49). mergGoogle 1.0 - This external for iOS and OS X currently implements google spreadsheets. (Also sold separately for $49). mergMK 3.0 - This update to mergMK supports querying directions between locations. iOS 9 support - all the mergExt externals have now been updated for iOS 9 support. The mergExt Complete bundle now weighs in at a hefty $1038 worth of individual products for only $299. Yes that?s right folks. We?ve cracked the ton! Special Price: 3 years of access to mergExt Complete for $499. That?s a huge $398 saving folks. Use this link to access the special deal http://mergext.com/special/ The first 5 people taking advantage of the special price will also get an additional 6 months at no extra charge. Get it while it?s hot!!! Cheers Monte -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode COPYRIGHT / DISCLAIMER: This message and/or including attached files may contain confidential proprietary or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from using, reproducing, disclosing or distributing the information contained in this email without authorisation from WesTrac. If you have received this message in error please contact WesTrac on +61 8 9377 9444. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus, data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised amendment. We reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications. From paul at livecode.org Tue Oct 13 17:02:39 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:02:39 -0700 Subject: Custom radio button icons In-Reply-To: References: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8A322C38-BC1E-4D7C-9B5B-2AD9C5200FDD@livecode.org> Instead of spaces you can also use 'tabs'? set the name of bin ?myRadioButton" to tab & ?myButton? I don?t know if there?s a way to adjust the tab though! Paul > On 13 Oct 2015, at 13:51, Scott Rossi wrote: > > The only way I could figure out how to do this is to set the textAlign to > left, the iconGravity to left, and insert a fixed amount of space > characters before the button's text label. > > There really should be easier way to do this, like having a separate > iconMargin property to position the icon independently of the text. > > (Whoever came up with "iconGravity" as the icon alignment property name > will have to choose something equally scifi for icon margins, like > "iconForceField" or "iconWarpBarrier"). > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 10/13/15, 1:07 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" > jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote: > >> I need to assign a custom icon for a whole lot of radio buttons. I want >> them to use the same spacing as the default radio button: icon at the >> left, a small margin, then the button text. >> >> Assigning a custom icon draws it at the right. Setting the textalign to >> "right" moves the icon to the correct place at the left, but the button >> text is pushed to the right margin. I want the text to be offset the >> same distance from the icon as the default radio button. >> >> I can resize the button to push the text over to the left, but I don't >> want to because the stack is internationalized and every button is >> currently wide enough to accomodate all languages it supports. >> >> If I set the iconGravity to "left" instead, the icon and text are drawn >> on top of each other at the left margin. >> >> If I really do have to resize them all, it will have to be dynamically >> on preOpenCard which I'd like to avoid. It seems like there has to be an >> easier way. Is there? >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Oct 13 17:05:21 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:05:21 +1100 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <67116DB20798A94285EEE12A67079A28F61DF3A5@MALEXC01.westrac.com.au> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <67116DB20798A94285EEE12A67079A28F61DF3A5@MALEXC01.westrac.com.au> Message-ID: <3BD5B41E-853E-4F51-9E5A-9E3DFFDFAF00@sweattechnologies.com> Sure but there's obviously licensing issues if you wanted to distribute an app. For personal and even in-house company use there's no problem though. Sent from my iPhone > On 14 Oct 2015, at 7:59 am, Nakia Brewer wrote: > > By any chance will mergBLE work with the community edition on OSX? From paul at livecode.org Tue Oct 13 17:05:53 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:05:53 -0700 Subject: Custom radio button icons In-Reply-To: <8A322C38-BC1E-4D7C-9B5B-2AD9C5200FDD@livecode.org> References: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> <8A322C38-BC1E-4D7C-9B5B-2AD9C5200FDD@livecode.org> Message-ID: <16BE9CFA-F5E8-42E0-82C2-4E0272103421@livecode.org> Sorry, that should have been Label, not name. Paul > On 13 Oct 2015, at 14:02, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > Instead of spaces you can also use 'tabs'? > > set the name of bin ?myRadioButton" to tab & ?myButton? > > I don?t know if there?s a way to adjust the tab though! > > Paul > >> On 13 Oct 2015, at 13:51, Scott Rossi wrote: >> >> The only way I could figure out how to do this is to set the textAlign to >> left, the iconGravity to left, and insert a fixed amount of space >> characters before the button's text label. >> >> There really should be easier way to do this, like having a separate >> iconMargin property to position the icon independently of the text. >> >> (Whoever came up with "iconGravity" as the icon alignment property name >> will have to choose something equally scifi for icon margins, like >> "iconForceField" or "iconWarpBarrier"). >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> On 10/13/15, 1:07 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" >> > jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote: >> >>> I need to assign a custom icon for a whole lot of radio buttons. I want >>> them to use the same spacing as the default radio button: icon at the >>> left, a small margin, then the button text. >>> >>> Assigning a custom icon draws it at the right. Setting the textalign to >>> "right" moves the icon to the correct place at the left, but the button >>> text is pushed to the right margin. I want the text to be offset the >>> same distance from the icon as the default radio button. >>> >>> I can resize the button to push the text over to the left, but I don't >>> want to because the stack is internationalized and every button is >>> currently wide enough to accomodate all languages it supports. >>> >>> If I set the iconGravity to "left" instead, the icon and text are drawn >>> on top of each other at the left margin. >>> >>> If I really do have to resize them all, it will have to be dynamically >>> on preOpenCard which I'd like to avoid. It seems like there has to be an >>> easier way. Is there? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From Nakia.Brewer at westrac.com.au Tue Oct 13 17:07:03 2015 From: Nakia.Brewer at westrac.com.au (Nakia Brewer) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 21:07:03 +0000 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <3BD5B41E-853E-4F51-9E5A-9E3DFFDFAF00@sweattechnologies.com> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <67116DB20798A94285EEE12A67079A28F61DF3A5@MALEXC01.westrac.com.au> <3BD5B41E-853E-4F51-9E5A-9E3DFFDFAF00@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <67116DB20798A94285EEE12A67079A28F61DF42E@MALEXC01.westrac.com.au> Great! Yeah my question was just for in house 'tinkering'. Nakia Brewer| WesTrac Pty Ltd | Technology Enabled Solutions Manager | Equipment Management Solutions | 1 WesTrac Drive, Tomago NSW 2322 t: (02) 4964 5051 |m: 0458 713 547 | i: www.westrac.com.au ACN 009 342 572 Our applicable terms and conditions can be found at: WesTrac Terms & Conditions -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Monte Goulding Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:05 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price Sure but there's obviously licensing issues if you wanted to distribute an app. For personal and even in-house company use there's no problem though. Sent from my iPhone > On 14 Oct 2015, at 7:59 am, Nakia Brewer wrote: > > By any chance will mergBLE work with the community edition on OSX? _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode COPYRIGHT / DISCLAIMER: This message and/or including attached files may contain confidential proprietary or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from using, reproducing, disclosing or distributing the information contained in this email without authorisation from WesTrac. If you have received this message in error please contact WesTrac on +61 8 9377 9444. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus, data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised amendment. We reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications. From martyknappster at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 17:59:14 2015 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:59:14 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <39CFE2EF-7F43-43D7-A221-FC9AFCFE9DC9@byu.edu> References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> <39CFE2EF-7F43-43D7-A221-FC9AFCFE9DC9@byu.edu> Message-ID: <561D7EB2.10708@knappstersolutions.com> Hey Devin, I just downloaded the test stack in your bug report and briefly tried it in LC 7.1. It seems like scaleFactor is not having that problem in this version. I've been using 6.6.5 and haven't noticed anything there either. Marty >> On Oct 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Marty Knapp wrote: >> >> I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a "zoom view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is anything but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of a stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. >> >> It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft or from the center of the stack too. >> >> I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. Anybody else played with this? > Marty, > > Is what you?re seeing anything like I wrote in this bug report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13883 > > I included a screen capture of what was happening. If your issue seems like the same thing, leave a comment on the bug report. It would be nice if the mother ship could tighten this feature up a bit. > > Regards, > > Devin > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From martyknappster at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 18:01:39 2015 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:01:39 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> Hey Scott, It would nice to see this developed more for sure. At this point, I'd settle for something even quasi - elegant, just for my users to be able to have a magnified view of the screen. Marty > Many of us tried to do the same thing when the feature was first > announced. Unfortunately, you can't really use it for a zoom effect, at > least not since I last looked into this. As you've seen, the stack jumps > around as the scale is changed, and even if you reposition it dynamically, > the results aren't the best. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 10/13/15, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" > martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a "zoom >> view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in >> terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is anything >> but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of a >> stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. >> >> It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft or > >from the center of the stack too. >> I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. >> Anybody else played with this? >> >> Marty K >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Best regards, Marty Knapp Knappster Solutions LLC --------------------------- From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 13 18:05:43 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:05:43 -0700 Subject: LC8 Dictionary Message-ID: A note to the team: Can we please have a search box for the Guides section of the new dictionary. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Tue Oct 13 18:00:43 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Custom radio button icons In-Reply-To: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1444773643746-4697413.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Jacque, this works for iconGravity left and keeps the distance of the right aligned text at a constant distance from the icon. -------------------------------------- on mouseUp ask "text for label of btn" if it is "" then exit mouseUp lock screen put "b1" into tBtnName set the label of button tBtnName to it put the width of button tBtnName into tButtonWidth put the leftMargin of button tBtnName into tLeftMargin put the formattedWidth of image id (the icon of btn tBtnName) into tImageWidth put measureText(the label of btn tBtnName, button tBtnName) into tTextWidth put 5 into tDistance -- change distance from Icon here put tButtonWidth - tLeftMargin - tImageWidth - tTextWidth - tDistance into tRight set the rightMargin of button tBtnName to tRight unlock screen end mouseUp ------------------------------------------------- Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Custom-radio-button-icons-tp4697400p4697413.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Oct 13 18:17:42 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:17:42 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: Believe me, Marty, that was the first thing I asked about. I sent them a demo stack that illustrated the limitations of the effect, but they said they couldn't make the behavior work the way I (and you) want. You can try the demo stack via your message box: go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/WindowScalingExample.livecode" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/13/15, 3:01 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" wrote: >Hey Scott, >It would nice to see this developed more for sure. At this point, I'd >settle for something even quasi - elegant, just for my users to be able >to have a magnified view of the screen. > >Marty >> Many of us tried to do the same thing when the feature was first >> announced. Unfortunately, you can't really use it for a zoom effect, at >> least not since I last looked into this. As you've seen, the stack >>jumps >> around as the scale is changed, and even if you reposition it >>dynamically, >> the results aren't the best. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> On 10/13/15, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" >> > martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a "zoom >>> view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in >>> terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is >>>anything >>> but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of a >>> stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. >>> >>> It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft >>>or >> >from the center of the stack too. >>> I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. >>> Anybody else played with this? >>> >>> Marty K >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >-- >Best regards, >Marty Knapp >Knappster Solutions LLC >--------------------------- > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Oct 13 18:22:16 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:22:16 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <97985BD6-DA3F-4B97-B29E-7D4564D06E83@livecode.com> References: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> <6CFEAA27-CE24-4D2B-B103-2DD06038DA9B@livecode.com> <8396DE9A-B499-4376-923D-4773B61753BB@earthednet.org> <97985BD6-DA3F-4B97-B29E-7D4564D06E83@livecode.com> Message-ID: Heather: That?s a great suggestion. What do you think about some kind of finer grain help, but task rather than project oriented? Like the headings examples in my previous posting? I agree that you don?t want to fragment and throw out what is already working and just create another ?mouth to feed". The thing with lessons is that there may be techniques in one of them that could stand alone, but are contained in the lesson. Could the lessons.runrev materials have links to a wiki that is maintained and added to by the users? Just thinking. I?m wondering if a possible approach might be if one of the users set up a wiki as a trial, then if it became popular and useful, it could be incorporated into the lessons and livecode site? A wiki is a pretty different beast from the lessons site. It?s pretty easy to set up a wiki. But the maintenance and spam monitoring can get time-consuming. But, I would hope the users would be able to take care of that. Perhaps any livecode indy or commercial user could automatically become an administrator so they could keep the site free of spam. The nice thing is, user modifications and comments would allow easy updates when Livecode adds features and as Apple (so often) changes requirements, etc. Best, Bill > On Oct 13, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Heather Laine wrote: > > The lessons site is not the be-all and end-all. A users wiki might be a good thing to add to it. However, I am also in favour of improving what we have, rather than attempting to replace it wholesale because its not perfect. A great way to ensure this happens is to request a lesson on any particular topic you want the answer to. If you can't find the answer chances are lots of other people can't either, and a lesson would be a good thing to add. Requests can be submitted to support at livecode.com . > > Regards, > > Heather > > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 13 Oct 2015, at 18:58, William Prothero wrote: >> >> Heather: >> I use the lessons.runrev site a lot. It has loads of good information. One limitation though, is that it takes us through the beginning steps, but often stops at the very useful stage. For example, the database lesson is great for local databases, but is not practical for server based databases. I don?t mean to complain. It?s good, as far as it goes, but?.. >> >> And?(aside).. I had NO IDEA that you could put images in text fields. Wonderful! For me, this is big! >> >> As an example of a challenge I had recently was trying to get the names of members of a group. Finally, after a load of Google searching, I found that I had to get the number of members first, then cycle through each member to get a list of the names. It took me quite a while to find it and I searched with Google, the lessons, and Mark Schonewille?s excellent book where it didn?t seem to appear in the index. Simple, but opaque for the beginner. Also, do we call them ?controls?, ?objects?, ?items?, ?keys?, etc. Easy for the experienced, but opaque for the newbie. >> >> Anyway, the very beginner needs basic stuff, but as she progresses, what is going to be on her/his mind is more task oriented. Like ?how do I get a list of members of a group?? or ?how should I organize my project??, etc.The new course derived from the CreateIT course will be very helpful. However, it?s going to take the programmer quite a bit of poking around to find an answer to ?how do I do xyz? Which lesson is it in? etc. Most of us do not start our learning at the beginning and work through all features. We jump in, create something, think of a project, then start on it. >> >> I really think this would benefit by being a community project. It should link to or include the runrev.lessons. I?m not suggesting a wiki, but nevertheless the wiki software is very good at community created information, keeping track of revisions, commenting, etc. It would seem to be a very low cost implementation, but of course it would have to fit into ?bigger picture? concerns I?m not aware of. >> >> Incidentally, I found the explanation of how to use the datagrid to make a notes list very informative in the Create-IT course. >> >> Index and search are critical, and very challenging. I find my most effective, first use tool is Google. It searches the lessons, the forums, and other folks? livecode sites too. >> >> Those are my ideas at this point, sent from the perspective of a moderately experienced new user. >> Best, >> Bill >> >>> On Oct 12, 2015, at 1:35 AM, Heather Laine wrote: >>> >>> Folks...an awful lot of this "cookbook" type material is available at >>> >>> http://lessons.runrev.com >>> >>> There is a comments facility, and when this was originally set up we invited community contributions. A number of people did contribute but for some considerable time now the only contributions have been from our staff. >>> >>> If anyone is really keen to contribute here I'm sure it could be arranged. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Heather >>> >>> Heather Laine >>> Customer Services Manager >>> LiveCode Ltd >>> www.livecode.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 11 Oct 2015, at 22:38, Michael Doub wrote: >>>> >>>> Would it be reasonable to ask Livecode to host a wiki site for documentation and examples? I kind of like the idea of having the ability to add information or update when I see something that it out of date or unclear. >>>> >>>> The problem is always organization and searching. This would still need to be dealt with, but the wiki idea lets the community contribute and edit. >>>> >>>> Sorry if this is out of context. I am just catching back up on email. >>>> >>>> -= Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/11/15 1:34 PM, William Prothero wrote: >>>>> Richard: >>>>> Thanks for the info. I think a task-driven cookbook does really need to be community developed. There are so many emails here that ask ?how do I do xyz?? or ?xyz won?t work? why?? Compiling these, with dates and keywords, and a user commenting facility, would go a long way toward accomplishing this. If there was a web site where users could make these contributions and a reviewer of some sort could edit them prior to inclusion in the ?master cookbook?, that might work. >>>>> >>>>> For me, my main frustration is getting an app onto iPhone. There is a tutorial on the livecode site, which helped me a lot. Later, after I forgot its details, I tried to make a new iOS app and got burned by the provisioning profile, which I tried to make generic, but LC wouldn?t accept a generic one. When I went back to the original tutorial, I got it working, but it took me more than a day to get there. So, I dread my next try at iOS. Also, getting an Apple certificate is another hurdle and I haven?t accomplished that yet, as I?ve been tryin got use AppWrapper 3 and it won?t work. Some kind of cookbook, that could be updated as Apple adds new hurdles and requirements, would be marvelous. >>>>> >>>>> I have a ?Notebook? app that has the following headings. The headings I use currently are shown below. There are sub-headings with specific code and for different applications. It is just a collection, saved from the email list over the last two years for my own use and not refined for mass distribution. >>>>> >>>>> Array handling >>>>> Behaviors >>>>> Calling handlers, out of path hierarchy >>>>> CEF Browser >>>>> Code signing >>>>> Color-mouse-at loc >>>>> Date >>>>> DataGrid >>>>> Debugger use and tricks >>>>> Detect if app is running and user is "on" it. >>>>> DNS mysteries >>>>> Drag and Drop >>>>> Email thru livecode server >>>>> Encryption >>>>> Fields, text display >>>>> Files and directories >>>>> Find out if some program is running >>>>> Get Mac camera image >>>>> Get Version in iOS >>>>> Graphic effects >>>>> Groups >>>>> Images >>>>> iOS mobile stuff >>>>> Learning materials links >>>>> Memory monitoring >>>>> MobGui >>>>> Mobile Copying stacks and using them as libraries >>>>> Number precision >>>>> PHP and databases >>>>> Playing sound in SA and Mobile >>>>> Playing sounds >>>>> Printing >>>>> Product version from script >>>>> Scientific notation converter >>>>> Screen scaling issues >>>>> SnapShots >>>>> Scrolling >>>>> Server stuff >>>>> Sorting >>>>> Sockets >>>>> SSH Tunneling >>>>> Ssh and secure transfer >>>>> Stacks and substacks >>>>> Text Code: Parsing Delimited >>>>> Text-Rotating >>>>> Text to speech >>>>> Text >>>>> Time Zone Info >>>>> User function names-getting them from scripts >>>>> Video >>>>> Widgets >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 10, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> William Prothero wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I said we need a dictionary focussed on tasks, not on commands, >>>>>>> but obviously we need both. I know Richard has been leading a >>>>>>> group taking this on. Richard, is this happening? >>>>>> The focus of an API reference like the LiveCode Dictionary will always have the language tokens as their primary index. This can (and arguably should) be augmented with tags to support searching for strings conceptually related but not found in the token itself or its description. I believe that's been put into place for the future, but regrettably not available in the current shipping product v7. >>>>>> >>>>>> Task-driven documentation is traditionally the domain of things like "Cookbooks". That format allows for the exploration of related concepts in a more detailed way that would be clumsy or even distracting in a Dictionary. IIRC LiveCode 1.0 had Cookbook, but I'm not sure when it was dropped. >>>>>> >>>>>> To answer your question about the Community Documentation Team, over the last year the core team at LiveCode Ltd. has been migrating all documentation content into Github markdown so that it can not only be more easily edited but also reviewed, merged, and compiled into the product build more easily as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Brett at LiveCode Ltd. has taken on the role of stewarding community engagement projects like this one, and the process of migrating the content to markdown is now far enough along that my next meeting with Dr. Brett will focus on conveying the dynamics of the workflow so we can get to work. >>>>>> >>>>>> The scope defined for the moment, however, is to update existing docs. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there's a desire for a Cookbook I would encourage the community to consider establishing a wiki for that. Indeed, there is one at wikia.com which may be a good starting point: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To help guide such an effort, let me ask you a question related to the CreateIt course you mentioned: >>>>>> >>>>>> You've been using LiveCode for many years, and have made some substantial software with it. At this point in your work, what topics would you find most valuable? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Richard Gaskin >>>>>> LiveCode Community Manager >>>>>> richard at livecode.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Oct 13 18:23:55 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:23:55 -0700 Subject: iOS dumb question In-Reply-To: <6C4F9A89-978F-42D0-8ECE-40CBD0F63941@iotecdigital.com> References: <0B4D8EC1-27E7-4623-B207-94B345E892BB@earthednet.org> <6C4F9A89-978F-42D0-8ECE-40CBD0F63941@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5B35261E-1088-444B-B39B-E8ECC625012D@earthednet.org> Bob: See Ralph DiMola?s posting below. Best, Bill > On Oct 13, 2015, at 7:31 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > No. It means any files that are not stack files e.g.. fonts, graphics, pdf help files etc. > > Bob S > > > On Oct 12, 2015, at 16:25 , William Prothero > wrote: > > The standalone settings for iOS allow for copying files, but the ?Copy Files? window states ?non-stack files?. Do this mean that all stacks in an iOS app must be substacks of the main stack? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 18:38:38 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:38:38 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> References: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> Marty Knapp wrote: > It would nice to see this developed more for sure. At this point, I'd > settle for something even quasi - elegant, just for my users to be able > to have a magnified view of the screen. FWIW, for folks making productivity apps in which scaling a group would be useful: Can we have the scalingFactor available for the contents of groups? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From martyknappster at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 18:41:51 2015 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:41:51 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: <561D88AF.5060001@knappstersolutions.com> Thanks Scott - I'll take a look. Marty > Believe me, Marty, that was the first thing I asked about. I sent them a > demo stack that illustrated the limitations of the effect, but they said > they couldn't make the behavior work the way I (and you) want. > > You can try the demo stack via your message box: > go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/WindowScalingExample.livecode" > > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 10/13/15, 3:01 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" > martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hey Scott, >> It would nice to see this developed more for sure. At this point, I'd >> settle for something even quasi - elegant, just for my users to be able >> to have a magnified view of the screen. >> >> Marty >>> Many of us tried to do the same thing when the feature was first >>> announced. Unfortunately, you can't really use it for a zoom effect, at >>> least not since I last looked into this. As you've seen, the stack >>> jumps >>> around as the scale is changed, and even if you reposition it >>> dynamically, >>> the results aren't the best. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Scott Rossi >>> Creative Director >>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/13/15, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" >>> >> martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a "zoom >>>> view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in >>>> terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is >>>> anything >>>> but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of a >>>> stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. >>>> >>>> It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft >>>> or >>> >from the center of the stack too. >>>> I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. >>>> Anybody else played with this? >>>> >>>> Marty K >>>> >>>> From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 13 18:42:24 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:42:24 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561D88D0.5060702@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > I?m wondering if a possible approach might be if one of the users set > up a wiki as a trial, then if it became popular and useful, it could > be incorporated into the lessons and livecode site? A wiki is a > pretty different beast from the lessons site. It?s pretty easy to set > up a wiki. But the maintenance and spam monitoring can get > time-consuming. But, I would hope the users would be able to take > care of that. Perhaps any livecode indy or commercial user could > automatically become an administrator so they could keep the site > free of spam. The nice thing is, user modifications and comments > would allow easy updates when Livecode adds features and as Apple (so > often) changes requirements, etc. Already done, thanks to the very helpful MaxV: I'm sure he'd welcome contributions there. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Oct 13 18:41:31 2015 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:41:31 +0000 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: Good demo Scott. It doesn?t look so bad if you set the stack?s fullscreen property to true but that?s probably not that useful on desktops. Terry... On 14/10/2015 9:17 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi" wrote: >Believe me, Marty, that was the first thing I asked about. I sent them a >demo stack that illustrated the limitations of the effect, but they said >they couldn't make the behavior work the way I (and you) want. > >You can try the demo stack via your message box: >go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/WindowScalingExample.livecode" > > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > >On 10/13/15, 3:01 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" >martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: > >>Hey Scott, >>It would nice to see this developed more for sure. At this point, I'd >>settle for something even quasi - elegant, just for my users to be able >>to have a magnified view of the screen. >> >>Marty >>> Many of us tried to do the same thing when the feature was first >>> announced. Unfortunately, you can't really use it for a zoom effect, >>>at >>> least not since I last looked into this. As you've seen, the stack >>>jumps >>> around as the scale is changed, and even if you reposition it >>>dynamically, >>> the results aren't the best. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Scott Rossi >>> Creative Director >>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/13/15, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" >>> >> martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a >>>>"zoom >>>> view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in >>>> terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is >>>>anything >>>> but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of >>>>a >>>> stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. >>>> >>>> It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft >>>>or >>> >from the center of the stack too. >>>> I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. >>>> Anybody else played with this? >>>> >>>> Marty K >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >>-- >>Best regards, >>Marty Knapp >>Knappster Solutions LLC >>--------------------------- >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Oct 13 18:54:24 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:54:24 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: There's a more substantial limitation, Terry: it's not possible to display objects that remain unaffected by the scaleFactor within a stack that is changed by the scaleFactor. What I had envisioned was something along the line of Google maps, where you have a floating slider overlaid on the map that scales the map up and down. Because the scaleFactor affects all contents within the stack window, any control you include to adjust scaling will itself get scaled, making this type of control arrangement unusable. That's why the slider in the demo is contained in a separate window. On desktop, you could fake a "built-in" slider control on top of the map using a custom windowShape, but obviously that won't work on mobile. Anyway, if LiveCode isn't able to keep the stack perfectly sized while its contents are scaled up and down, this direction isn't a good one for scaling effects. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/13/15, 3:41 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd" wrote: >Good demo Scott. It doesn?t look so bad if you set the stack?s fullscreen >property to true but that?s probably not that useful on desktops. > >Terry... > >On 14/10/2015 9:17 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi" >scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote: > >>Believe me, Marty, that was the first thing I asked about. I sent them a >>demo stack that illustrated the limitations of the effect, but they said >>they couldn't make the behavior work the way I (and you) want. >> >>You can try the demo stack via your message box: >>go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/WindowScalingExample.livecode" >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Scott Rossi >>Creative Director >>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >>On 10/13/15, 3:01 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" >>>martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Hey Scott, >>>It would nice to see this developed more for sure. At this point, I'd >>>settle for something even quasi - elegant, just for my users to be able >>>to have a magnified view of the screen. >>> >>>Marty >>>> Many of us tried to do the same thing when the feature was first >>>> announced. Unfortunately, you can't really use it for a zoom effect, >>>>at >>>> least not since I last looked into this. As you've seen, the stack >>>>jumps >>>> around as the scale is changed, and even if you reposition it >>>>dynamically, >>>> the results aren't the best. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Scott Rossi >>>> Creative Director >>>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/13/15, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" >>>> >>> martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a >>>>>"zoom >>>>> view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially in >>>>> terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is >>>>>anything >>>>> but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc of >>>>>a >>>>> stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the screen. >>>>> >>>>> It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the topLeft >>>>>or >>>> >from the center of the stack too. >>>>> I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very acceptable. >>>>> Anybody else played with this? >>>>> >>>>> Marty K >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Best regards, >>>Marty Knapp >>>Knappster Solutions LLC >>>--------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>use-livecode mailing list >>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>subscription preferences: >>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Oct 13 19:11:13 2015 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:11:13 +0000 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: Yep, gotcha. On mobile you?d have to inversely rescale and dynamically reposition the slider control at the same time. Hard to see that working smoothly. Terry... On 14/10/2015 9:54 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi" wrote: >There's a more substantial limitation, Terry: it's not possible to display >objects that remain unaffected by the scaleFactor within a stack that is >changed by the scaleFactor. > >What I had envisioned was something along the line of Google maps, where >you have a floating slider overlaid on the map that scales the map up and >down. Because the scaleFactor affects all contents within the stack >window, any control you include to adjust scaling will itself get scaled, >making this type of control arrangement unusable. That's why the slider >in the demo is contained in a separate window. On desktop, you could fake >a "built-in" slider control on top of the map using a custom windowShape, >but obviously that won't work on mobile. > >Anyway, if LiveCode isn't able to keep the stack perfectly sized while its >contents are scaled up and down, this direction isn't a good one for >scaling effects. > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > >On 10/13/15, 3:41 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd" >terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au> wrote: > >>Good demo Scott. It doesn?t look so bad if you set the stack?s fullscreen >>property to true but that?s probably not that useful on desktops. >> >>Terry... >> >>On 14/10/2015 9:17 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi" >>>scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote: >> >>>Believe me, Marty, that was the first thing I asked about. I sent them >>>a >>>demo stack that illustrated the limitations of the effect, but they said >>>they couldn't make the behavior work the way I (and you) want. >>> >>>You can try the demo stack via your message box: >>>go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/WindowScalingExample.livecode" >>> >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Scott Rossi >>>Creative Director >>>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On 10/13/15, 3:01 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" >>>>>martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Hey Scott, >>>>It would nice to see this developed more for sure. At this point, I'd >>>>settle for something even quasi - elegant, just for my users to be able >>>>to have a magnified view of the screen. >>>> >>>>Marty >>>>> Many of us tried to do the same thing when the feature was first >>>>> announced. Unfortunately, you can't really use it for a zoom effect, >>>>>at >>>>> least not since I last looked into this. As you've seen, the stack >>>>>jumps >>>>> around as the scale is changed, and even if you reposition it >>>>>dynamically, >>>>> the results aren't the best. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Scott Rossi >>>>> Creative Director >>>>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/13/15, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" >>>>> >>>> martyknappster at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm playing around with scaleFactor on a desktop app as sort of a >>>>>>"zoom >>>>>> view" feature. But there are some weirdnesses about it, especially >>>>>>in >>>>>> terms of screen placement. For example, when the scaleFactor is >>>>>>anything >>>>>> but 1, setting the loc of a stack is way off. Like setting the loc >>>>>>of >>>>>>a >>>>>> stack to the screenLoc does not place it at the center of the >>>>>>screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be nice to be able to scale a window in/out from the >>>>>>topLeft >>>>>>or >>>>> >from the center of the stack too. >>>>>> I tried a few things, but nothing I came up with was very >>>>>>acceptable. >>>>>> Anybody else played with this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Marty K >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Best regards, >>>>Marty Knapp >>>>Knappster Solutions LLC >>>>--------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>use-livecode mailing list >>>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>subscription preferences: >>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>use-livecode mailing list >>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>subscription preferences: >>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Oct 13 19:25:25 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:25:25 -0500 Subject: Custom radio button icons In-Reply-To: <1444773643746-4697413.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <561D649B.1020702@hyperactivesw.com> <1444773643746-4697413.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <561D92E5.9070406@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks for all the replies, guys, I've tinkered with them all. I'd considered a script similar to Bernd's, but putting spaces before the label text works too and is a little easier. I had no idea you could use tabs in a button label, and it worked great with one button but had an entirely different spacing in another button, so I went back to spaces. It's a nice bit of trivia to know though. I really didn't want to loop through all the buttons on every preOpenCard (it's a survey, and every card has tons of them) but it sounds like there's no other way if the label has to change for every language. I had to LOL at "iconForceField" and "iconWarpBarrier". That's got to go into the bug database next to the "ain't" entry. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 20:27:14 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:27:14 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <561D0C54.1070000@fourthworld.com> References: <58C4901F-88AB-4AE0-8867-268D34FB493F@gmail.com> <561D0C54.1070000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1313CCDA-C8FE-4688-B107-DE31193D5023@gmail.com> Richard > Richard Gaskin wrote: > > I've not used Rebol, but have read much of its documentation at various points over the years. Carl Sassenrath is an interesting thinker, and his language reflects some very unusual and intriguing concepts. > > Aside from MetaCard I've seen almost no other scripting language but Rebol that wholeheartedly embraced the concept of delivering applications over the wire. Sadly it seems that the World was not ready at the time for a way to painlessly distribute both apps and data over what would now be considered very thin wires. Current App Stores and Web Push Notifications offer little more than the Rebol/View desktop and the even more advanced (IOS) Internet Operating System did more than ten years ago. The have a better looking interface and they can collect money. Probably nothing that couldn?t have been quite easily added to IOS. If only Carl had found a partner whose marketing prowess was the equal of his technical prowess. Over the years, Rebol has become a general purpose development tool and its network roots have withered. I see a comparison with LiveCode which has grown into a general purpose development tool from its multimedia roots. > Way back in the day I imagined I might have enough time to flesh out some Rebol-like concepts in what was then called "Revolution", but this was as far as I had time to go: > > go url "http://fourthworld.net/channels/Revel.rev? A very realistic impersonation. > > Underneath that would be a lightweight syntax for describing objects similar to Rebol's auto-layout capabilities. I made just enough of it to allow sparse descriptions of objects and have them created on the fly in somewhat reasonable locations, but never had the time to take it as far as Rebol did. And like too many other things on my hard drive, without an immediate need for using it in actual work, I can't say I have any plans to get back to it. :) > > I'd be interested in your opinion on Rebol dialects: > > > They seem a key feature of the language, an opportunity to create domain-specific languages from the core Rebol language. > > In this regard it seems a similar set of goals to the proposed Open Language initiative for LiveCode. Not directly the same, but similar in the way that many of Python's design goals almost perfectly parallel LiveCode's design goals, even though the expression of those goals has taken very different forms. > > Do you have any thoughts on the strengths or weaknesses of Rebol's approach vs LiveCode's for creating domain-specific dialects? I believe Rebol (and what I see as it?s successor Red) has two significant advantages over LiveCode for writing domain-specific dialects., The first is that in Rebol values (not variables) are strictly typed. Values must be loaded in Rebol, once loaded a value is typed (e.g. integer). An integer can only be treated as a integer, there is no typecasting mechanism. As I understand, LiveCode has very few types, mainly everything is a string except for arrays and (maybe) objects. (I say maybe as my knowledge of LiveCode is insufficient in the area of how Objects are stored.) The second is Rebol?s parse function which operates on loaded data and can match on both data and datatype. This is a huge advantage in writing domain specific dialects. (Parse also operates on strings and can do 99% of what can be done with regex, and a lot more, legibly and comprehensively). > >> To be fair '?' poses less of a problem in this regard than '.' - in > >> terms of limiting future options that have been discussed at length > >> in the past ;) > > > > I was surprised to read this as I started using this convention when > > one of the LiveCode team commented on somebody?s code that used the > > same convention and said ?some people in the office have started > > using it?. Of course, I can no longer find the comment. If you think > > it is an unwise convention to use to avoid name clashes, I will adopt > > another one. Any suggestions as to a good approach/ > > A lot of xTalkers express Boolean functions with something list "Is*", e.g. "if IsList() then?". Thanks for that suggestion. I might switch to IsList rather than List? etc. It would seem better to use an xTalk convention than a ?foreign? one. Kind regards Peter From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Oct 13 20:29:23 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:29:23 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <561D88D0.5060702@fourthworld.com> References: <561D88D0.5060702@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <47C0E8AA-D444-40BF-B0E6-A838C435E01F@earthednet.org> Richard: Just what I was thinking! Great resource. Bill > On Oct 13, 2015, at 3:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > William Prothero wrote: > > I?m wondering if a possible approach might be if one of the users set > > up a wiki as a trial, then if it became popular and useful, it could > > be incorporated into the lessons and livecode site? A wiki is a > > pretty different beast from the lessons site. It?s pretty easy to set > > up a wiki. But the maintenance and spam monitoring can get > > time-consuming. But, I would hope the users would be able to take > > care of that. Perhaps any livecode indy or commercial user could > > automatically become an administrator so they could keep the site > > free of spam. The nice thing is, user modifications and comments > > would allow easy updates when Livecode adds features and as Apple (so > > often) changes requirements, etc. > > Already done, thanks to the very helpful MaxV: > > > I'm sure he'd welcome contributions there. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Oct 13 20:31:16 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:31:16 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <561D88D0.5060702@fourthworld.com> References: <561D88D0.5060702@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Only downside is all the massive advertising. I guess, for free, we can put up with it. ?Beggards can?t be choosers?. One thing, thinking ahead, is how hard it will be to export and transfer the content to a different wiki site when we want to. Bill > On Oct 13, 2015, at 3:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > William Prothero wrote: > > I?m wondering if a possible approach might be if one of the users set > > up a wiki as a trial, then if it became popular and useful, it could > > be incorporated into the lessons and livecode site? A wiki is a > > pretty different beast from the lessons site. It?s pretty easy to set > > up a wiki. But the maintenance and spam monitoring can get > > time-consuming. But, I would hope the users would be able to take > > care of that. Perhaps any livecode indy or commercial user could > > automatically become an administrator so they could keep the site > > free of spam. The nice thing is, user modifications and comments > > would allow easy updates when Livecode adds features and as Apple (so > > often) changes requirements, etc. > > Already done, thanks to the very helpful MaxV: > > > I'm sure he'd welcome contributions there. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Oct 13 20:33:08 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:33:08 +1100 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <1313CCDA-C8FE-4688-B107-DE31193D5023@gmail.com> References: <58C4901F-88AB-4AE0-8867-268D34FB493F@gmail.com> <561D0C54.1070000@fourthworld.com> <1313CCDA-C8FE-4688-B107-DE31193D5023@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3770B548-91E1-4063-8270-6F838C797B82@sweattechnologies.com> > On 14 Oct 2015, at 11:27 am, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > As I understand, LiveCode has very few types, mainly everything is a string except for arrays and (maybe) objects. (I say maybe as my knowledge of LiveCode is insufficient in the area of how Objects are stored.) It?s a confusing topic. See the is really operator for more info. Under the hood they are stored in the most efficient way they can be but it often depends on the last operation: put ?1? into t ? is really a string put ?1?*1 into t ? is really a number Cheers Monte From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Oct 13 20:39:37 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:39:37 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <97985BD6-DA3F-4B97-B29E-7D4564D06E83@livecode.com> References: <561966EB.9000903@fourthworld.com> <561AD6EB.4040404@gmail.com> <6CFEAA27-CE24-4D2B-B103-2DD06038DA9B@livecode.com> <8396DE9A-B499-4376-923D-4773B61753BB@earthednet.org> <97985BD6-DA3F-4B97-B29E-7D4564D06E83@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561DA449.6050907@ahsoftware.net> On 10/13/2015 12:29 PM, Heather Laine wrote: > The lessons site is not the be-all and end-all. A users wiki might be a good thing to add to it. However, I am also in favour of improving what we have, rather than attempting to replace it wholesale because its not perfect. A great way to ensure this happens is to request a lesson on any particular topic you want the answer to. If you can't find the answer chances are lots of other people can't either, and a lesson would be a good thing to add. Requests can be submitted to support at livecode.com . I don't see this as an either/or thing. Since many third-party help sites (wikis, collections of code, etc) have sprung up because of the lack of this information from the livecode.com site itself, I think it would be useful if the main site would link to these other resources. I'm rather tired of maintaining my own list of browser bookmarks, and my list doesn't do anyone else any good. 'Resources' seems like a good place for links. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 21:18:11 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:18:11 +0800 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: References: <561D88D0.5060702@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:31 AM, William Prothero wrote: > Only downside is all the massive advertising. What advertising? https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqfr5p2acpomkeh/lcwiki.png?dl=0 Firefox + the NoScript addon https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/noscript/ Wouldn't visit any website without it :-) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 00:35:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 21:35:39 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561DDB9B.80309@fourthworld.com> Kay C Lan wrote: > What advertising? > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqfr5p2acpomkeh/lcwiki.png?dl=0 > > Firefox + the NoScript addon > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/noscript/ > > Wouldn't visit any website without it :-) Amen. NoScript is great not only for web sites whose owners don't understand the insane load times that come with loading 30 massive external ad scripts and their media, but also for security. My wife hates using my laptop because most sites these days are broken without JavaScript, but I don't mind having to turn on scripts for each site given the upside that they're off by default. Nothing runs unless I explicitly allow it. Personally, I wouldn't consider anything less safe enough to use. It's good to know who's executing code on your machine. @William: I'd be happy to host it at LiveCode Journal if Max is up for that. He'd have to work out the mechanics of the transfer, but I could set up a subdomain with him as the owner and the host offers an ad-free wiki so it should be easy to use if he's up for moving it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peterwawood at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 00:36:15 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:36:15 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <3770B548-91E1-4063-8270-6F838C797B82@sweattechnologies.com> References: <58C4901F-88AB-4AE0-8867-268D34FB493F@gmail.com> <561D0C54.1070000@fourthworld.com> <1313CCDA-C8FE-4688-B107-DE31193D5023@gmail.com> <3770B548-91E1-4063-8270-6F838C797B82@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1C035051-75FF-4D32-A62C-BC25C3BD8F3C@gmail.com> Thanks for the explanation Monte > On 14 Oct 2015, at 08:33, Monte Goulding wrote: > > It?s a confusing topic. See the is really operator for more info. Under the hood they are stored in the most efficient way they can be but it often depends on the last operation: > > put ?1? into t ? is really a string > put ?1?*1 into t ? is really a number I?m guessing that engine keeps a track of the type that each value is currently stored. Cheers Peter From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 00:44:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 21:44:39 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <1313CCDA-C8FE-4688-B107-DE31193D5023@gmail.com> References: <1313CCDA-C8FE-4688-B107-DE31193D5023@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561DDDB7.4020004@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: >> Richard Gaskin > >> Aside from MetaCard I've seen almost no other scripting language >> but Rebol that wholeheartedly embraced the concept of delivering >> applications over the wire. ... > If only Carl had found a partner whose marketing prowess was the > equal of his technical prowess. Once upon a time I used to daydream of a technology merge with Rebol and LiveCode. Probably not in any way compatible under the hood, and chances are you and I may be the only two people in either camp who might enjoy such a chimera. But it was a pleasant dream just the same. Carl seems like a fascinating person, likely very excellent dinner conversation. >> A lot of xTalkers express Boolean functions with something list >> "Is*", e.g. "if IsList() then?". > > Thanks for that suggestion. I might switch to IsList rather than > List? etc. It would seem better to use an xTalk convention than > a ?foreign? one. I'm not so sure. At first I was, but after Mark and Mark explained how common the ? convention is elsewhere I'm inclined to think that the most important thing is that the library works as *you* want it to, and if others learn a thing or two along the way as I did so much the better. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From prothero at earthednet.org Wed Oct 14 01:52:50 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:52:50 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <561DDB9B.80309@fourthworld.com> References: <561DDB9B.80309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <62C6DAFB-410E-4D34-8D4F-B4E17DC4B30D@earthednet.org> Richard, That sounds like a great offer! I think it would be a much more friendly site if we didn't have to download all the ads. I use Safari because it synchronizes all my bookmarks between my devices. I know there is a Firefox plugin that does that. I used it, but there was an issue I can't remember when I upgraded to Yosemite, so I switched. Firefox is a very good option, tho. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Oct 13, 2015, at 9:35 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Kay C Lan wrote: > > What advertising? > > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqfr5p2acpomkeh/lcwiki.png?dl=0 > > > > Firefox + the NoScript addon > > > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/noscript/ > > > > Wouldn't visit any website without it :-) > > Amen. NoScript is great not only for web sites whose owners don't understand the insane load times that come with loading 30 massive external ad scripts and their media, but also for security. > > My wife hates using my laptop because most sites these days are broken without JavaScript, but I don't mind having to turn on scripts for each site given the upside that they're off by default. Nothing runs unless I explicitly allow it. Personally, I wouldn't consider anything less safe enough to use. It's good to know who's executing code on your machine. > > > @William: I'd be happy to host it at LiveCode Journal if Max is up for that. He'd have to work out the mechanics of the transfer, but I could set up a subdomain with him as the owner and the host offers an ad-free wiki so it should be easy to use if he's up for moving it. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 02:06:27 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:06:27 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <62C6DAFB-410E-4D34-8D4F-B4E17DC4B30D@earthednet.org> References: <62C6DAFB-410E-4D34-8D4F-B4E17DC4B30D@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <561DF0E3.4040006@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > I use Safari because it synchronizes all my bookmarks between my > devices. I know there is a Firefox plugin that does that. I used > it, but there was an issue I can't remember when I upgraded to > Yosemite, so I switched. Firefox is a very good option, tho. There's a JavaScript blocker for Safari too: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 02:37:23 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:37:23 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D6223.4020908@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: <16bd67cedc5b96d06517e7f43c42ba45@livecode.com> On 2015-10-13 22:07, Scott Rossi wrote: > Many of us tried to do the same thing when the feature was first > announced. Unfortunately, you can't really use it for a zoom effect, > at > least not since I last looked into this. As you've seen, the stack > jumps > around as the scale is changed, and even if you reposition it > dynamically, > the results aren't the best. The 'scaleFactor' of a stack was implemented for a specific reason - as stated in the dictionary: "Use the scaleFactor property when developing to scale down stacks that are larger than the available screen space." It was neither intended as, nor designed to be used as, a general method for scaling stack content which is a somewhat different problem. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 02:57:49 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:57:49 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> References: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> On 2015-10-14 00:38, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Marty Knapp wrote: >> It would nice to see this developed more for sure. At this point, I'd >> settle for something even quasi - elegant, just for my users to be >> able >> to have a magnified view of the screen. > > FWIW, for folks making productivity apps in which scaling a group > would be useful: > > Can we have the scalingFactor available for the contents of groups? > This would indeed be nice (and, indeed, it has come up many times before) - however there are two problems. The first is that all co-ordinates from a script point of view in the engine are integers, rather than floating point. This becomes important when you are starting to talk about transformations - for example scaling down an object of width 9 by a factor of 2 means the object's width is 4.5. So in this scenario the rect of an object within a scaled group would be inaccurate with how things are currently. The second is that the current script's co-ordinate model is such that all co-ordinates are relative to the top-left of the current card rather than the owning group. Now, the first can probably be ignored if the second is solved and co-ordinates are always expressed relative to the containing groups co-ordinate system (i.e. if you put a 10x10 button at 10,10 inside a group which scales things down by half, then the buttons rect would be 10,10,20,20 but it would appear at 5,5,10,10 on the card). However, I'm not sure how that squares up with script's idea of what co-ordinates should be relative to from a script point of view - we've all got very used to a single flat co-ordinate system which means there's no need for transforming between 'co-ordinates relative to one object' to 'co-ordinates relative to another object'. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 03:05:10 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:05:10 +0200 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode List Processor In-Reply-To: <561DDDB7.4020004@fourthworld.com> References: <1313CCDA-C8FE-4688-B107-DE31193D5023@gmail.com> <561DDDB7.4020004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5f73bef6a09b2fc1bc8bc2967512713c@livecode.com> On 2015-10-14 06:44, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I'm not so sure. At first I was, but after Mark and Mark explained > how common the ? convention is elsewhere I'm inclined to think that > the most important thing is that the library works as *you* want it > to, and if others learn a thing or two along the way as I did so much > the better. I'm not so sure either. Here's the thing - the engine has long accepted a very flexible 'identifier' token - including (among most other things) the '?' and the '.' character. Under the remit of 'avoiding symbol usage in the actual syntax as much as possible', then this is fine. However, the allowing of flexibility of identifiers to this extent limits future options and the question is whether being able to use '?' and '.' in handler names and variable names is *really worth* the curtailing of future endeavour which it represents. With the spectre of Open Language somewhere on the horizon it becomes important to decide whether we should push people away from using non-standard identifier characters, or restrict the operators that people might be able to cook up in future language extensions. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bogdanoff at me.com Wed Oct 14 03:28:44 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 03:28:44 -0400 Subject: Programming Help Needed Message-ID: Hi all, I have need of some programming help to optimize some script. I have some text search results that are filtered and and mongered to display correctly for my application. My existing script uses text in a field as the source and final display for the search results. The results are also sorted by use of an array. What I have now works more-or-less in LC 6, but is very slow (like 20-30 seconds for 1,000 results) to display the modified search results in LC 7. The array portion of the script sorts the results and, in LC 7, is taking about 5 seconds to do just that task. In LC6 this same process took about a total of 4-5 seconds. I realize that what I have done myself could be optimized to be much better and faster by someone better than I at this, and there seems to be a slowdown in LC7?s operation to be overcome. I think that for an experienced programmer this is a 1-3 hour job. I will pay an hourly fee to someone who will do this as well as sign a non-desclosure. Please contact me off-list at bogdanoff at me.com Thanks, Peter Bogdanoff UCLA From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 03:46:04 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:46:04 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> References: <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561E083C.4060706@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-14 00:38, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Can we have the scalingFactor available for the contents of groups? >> > > This would indeed be nice (and, indeed, it has come up many times > before) - however there are two problems. > > The first is that all co-ordinates from a script point of view in the > engine are integers, rather than floating point. This becomes important > when you are starting to talk about transformations - for example > scaling down an object of width 9 by a factor of 2 means the object's > width is 4.5. So in this scenario the rect of an object within a scaled > group would be inaccurate with how things are currently. > > The second is that the current script's co-ordinate model is such that > all co-ordinates are relative to the top-left of the current card rather > than the owning group. > > Now, the first can probably be ignored if the second is solved and > co-ordinates are always expressed relative to the containing groups > co-ordinate system (i.e. if you put a 10x10 button at 10,10 inside a > group which scales things down by half, then the buttons rect would be > 10,10,20,20 but it would appear at 5,5,10,10 on the card). However, I'm > not sure how that squares up with script's idea of what co-ordinates > should be relative to from a script point of view - we've all got very > used to a single flat co-ordinate system which means there's no need for > transforming between 'co-ordinates relative to one object' to > 'co-ordinates relative to another object'. Maybe those could be handled as the HTML Canvas does, in which the coordinates you use remain the same and the scale factor takes case of the translation for us when rendering. Isn't that how Skia's canvas works also? Workable for LC? If we need to know the on-screen physical rect of a control (as distinct from its logical scaled rect) perhaps "the effective rect"? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 04:14:07 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:14:07 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> On 2015-10-13 17:35, Richard Gaskin wrote: > It's possible to invest our time enumerating reasons why people > shouldn't enjoy crafting tools in LiveCode, but to what end? > > Any IDE (or IDE "tool" or "framework" or any other subset) is just a > collections of stacks. The one thing we know about LiveCode > programmers is that they know how to program in LiveCode. Many of > them are quite good at it. This is where I have to disagree - an 'IDE' is *not* 'just' a collection of stacks. Those stacks have to work together in a consistent way, agree on certain conventions, protocols and 'how things should generally fit together'. It is a 'framework' which does this (even if it is one which contains no code, and just a long list of 'do's' and 'don't's). > I see no harm in encouraging people to just continue doing what > they've been enjoying for decades: making tools to help their work > and sharing them with others. Indeed - there is no harm at all - it is actually quite important. I wasn't implying that it shouldn't be encouraged... > All of the tools I've referred to - Mark Weider's, Bjornke's, Geoff's, > Peter's, and others' - exist. Why not have more? Why not have a > convenient launcher for them? Great - how do you ensure that Mark's tools don't interfere with Geoff's so users can use them side-by-side? If every toolmaker has to take into account every other toolmaker's 'way of doing things' you end up with a situation where one individual who wants to write a tool needs to learn about everybody else's if they want to distribute it for the benefit of all. > Why not have an IDE for pro devs, another for kids, and other for > educators, and others for just about anything people might want to do? Again, let us not confuse 'IDE' with 'IDE Framework'. > It's possible to imagine a perfect circle, but in the natural world > none exists. All systems are imperfect, influenced by subtle but > pervasive forces that ultimately alter them from their ideal form. > Anything that seems otherwise lives in the space between design specs > and shipping. :) Even the OSes we love are riddled with kludgey > workarounds - not that we should pursue kludges, but it's no more > useful to postpone everything until a perfect system exists. Things are never perfect, it is true - but most people's daily lives are governed by rules, regulations and policies to ensure that everyone can co-exist (reasonably?) 'happily'. (Or at least function without huge amount of friction at every interaction). My main assertion here is that I don't think 'the engine' in its current form provides a sufficiently strict set of such things for the purposes of interchangeable IDE Tool writing so there needs to be a concerted effort to build something on top of it which is. > Ultimately you and I are describing the same goal, a modular and > lightweight IDE system in which tools are plentiful and > interchangeable, something Ken Ray and others have been advocating > since the engine acquisition in 2003. Indeed - advocacy and implementation are two entirely separate things though - which is perhaps why no such widespread 'lightweight IDE system' has appeared (to my knowledge at least). > And there is one salient aspect: neither of us is describing an IDE > that exists today. I cannot agree there. You may be describing an IDE which does not exist today - some sort of mystical entity which will just appear naturally out of a lot of people playing around in a sandpit. Unfortunately, I don't have much confidence in chaos producing anything in any particularly useful timeframe (the mathematician in me screams that the numbers just don't add up in that regard). On the other hand, I am describing an IDE (Framework) which is currently in the process of being built - we are working quite hard to try and separate out what tools in a LiveCode IDE need to function from what is specific to the tools themselves. As I've already said, we are trying to build APIs upon which any tool written by anyone could sit and still work together with any other tool written on the same APIs. > All I'm offering here is encouragement for the things that led to this > thread, an acknowledgement that some folks like the App Browser and > others like the Project Browser and still others like Geoff Canyon's > Navigator and others like their own. And the same goes for object > creation tools, and inspectors, and the rest. What I'm offering here is more than encouragement - which means I hope that things might actually change :) There are a number of people who are interested in creating IDE Tools - it is clear - indeed, many such tools already exist. My offer to those who are interested in this are of things is simply this: Take a look at what we are trying to do with the LC8+ IDE, dig around in the libraries we are creating. Play with moving your tools to those APIs which are gradually being chiselled out of the monolithic system which was there before, talk to us and help us improve and add to those APIs to ensure that over time all the services that any tool might need are there for them to use. The aim is that, over time, we have a clean, thin, high-level API which everything else sits upon which tries to make no predetermination about any sort of part of an IDE, or the tools which sit within it. Indeed, I wouldn't discount the possibility that such an API could eventually be rendered in proper English-like syntax, embedded in the engine in some form to make it even easier for anyone to access and use. Will this happen in the LC8.0 timeframe? No, I'm not expecting it to - I've become very patient with regards large scale technical projects these days ;) However, LC8 will be better than LC7, and subsequent LC versions will be better still. The more people who get involved to help us reach the goal of a lightweight IDE Framework, the more quickly it will happen and the better it will be. (By the way, I'm fully aware that for this approach to work we really need to start clearly documenting the IDE APIs we are building - I don't want people to start to get lots of bruises from wandering around in a dark room!) > Let a thousand flowers bloom. Indeed - a thousand flowers blooming can be a truly breathtaking sight. However, it is much less amazing if those thousand flowers are dotted around the world individually, not being able to be brought together because they cannot co-exist within the same climate, or in the same soil. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 14 04:21:41 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 19:21:41 +1100 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> References: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 14 Oct 2015, at 5:57 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > The first is that all co-ordinates from a script point of view in the engine are integers, rather than floating point. This becomes important when you are starting to talk about transformations - for example scaling down an object of width 9 by a factor of 2 means the object's width is 4.5. So in this scenario the rect of an object within a scaled group would be inaccurate with how things are currently. > > The second is that the current script's co-ordinate model is such that all co-ordinates are relative to the top-left of the current card rather than the owning group. Don?t both of these issues disappear if you create a stack view object instead of group scalefactor? Given a stack which already has a scaleFactor? Object rects remain relative to the stack whether the stack is presented as a window or in a view. From the perspective of the stack with the window it would just have a single view object which has a stackName and a rect.. perhaps some other stuff like visible etc... Cheers Monte From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Oct 14 04:33:43 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:33:43 +0100 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <561E1367.60900@cogapp.com> Just to testify - the new mergBLE arrived right on time to save me struggling through the process of building my own externals, and did exactly what I needed. In fact since I was completely unable to locate the resources for building externals, it meant I could stop writing a native app, and immediately become more productive. Thank you Monte for your continuing work, which for me absolutely bridges the gap to making LC for iOS a real option. You're a LiveCode Hero. Ben On 12/10/2015 03:31, Monte Goulding wrote: > Hi LiveCoders > > Today I am releasing a huge update to mergExt Complete and announcing a special price available for the rest of the month. > > mergBLE 1.0 - CoreBluetooth external for iOS and OS X. Use BLE between Mac and iOS or between iOS devices or between some of the great sensors available and your app. For the arduino hackers out there you will love pairing this external with the ReadBearLab BLE shield. Control anything from your Mac or iOS device!!! (Also sold separately for $49). > > mergGoogle 1.0 - This external for iOS and OS X currently implements google spreadsheets. (Also sold separately for $49). > > mergMK 3.0 - This update to mergMK supports querying directions between locations. > > iOS 9 support - all the mergExt externals have now been updated for iOS 9 support. > > The mergExt Complete bundle now weighs in at a hefty $1038 worth of individual products for only $299. Yes that?s right folks. We?ve cracked the ton! > > Special Price: 3 years of access to mergExt Complete for $499. That?s a huge $398 saving folks. Use this link to access the special deal http://mergext.com/special/ The first 5 people taking advantage of the special price will also get an additional 6 months at no extra charge. Get it while it?s hot!!! > > Cheers > > Monte > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 04:39:10 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:39:10 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561E083C.4060706@fourthworld.com> References: <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> <561E083C.4060706@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <872fb031d3352a61dd86286a7bd542df@livecode.com> On 2015-10-14 09:46, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Maybe those could be handled as the HTML Canvas does, in which the > coordinates you use remain the same and the scale factor takes case of > the translation for us when rendering. The problem is the mixture of co-ordinate systems on a card, if you have a scaled button in a group and an unscaled button outside of a group - how do coords work in an arbitrary script potentially unrelated to either? If I'm sitting at the card level and I ask the scaled button for its rect, and the unscaled button for its rect, what do I get in each case? If I'm sitting at the scaled button level and I ask the unscaled button for its rect, what do I get? Let's say I want the button outside of the group to sit directly over the (scaled) button in the group. Right now, I would do: set the rect of button "Outside" to the rect of button "Inside" However, in this newly imagined world where the 'inside' button is actually scaled and the 'outside' button is not, there's no clear agreement on what the 'rects' mean - should it become a matter of context of script? And, if so, is that always 100% well defined?. (This is even without taking into account the huge mathematical error which accumulates when you are restricted to rects being on an integer grid, and trying to take into account partly scaled and unscaled combinations). The main thing which we need to avoid is the case where someone writing a 'reusable component' has to be aware of whether said component is sitting in a scaled group, compared to an unscaled group. If components have to be aware of this to function correctly, then it makes them a great deal more difficult to write. > Isn't that how Skia's canvas works also? Yes - and how the graphics library we built on top of it works, and how the Canvas library used by LCB works. > Workable for LC? Pretty much every single UI system since even before MetaCard appeared operated in a very standard way. Child controls were relative to their owning group. MetaCard, I'm sorry to say, made a significant error of judgement (with hindsight of course) when implementing backgrounds and groups. Backgrounds should have been as HyperCard - full card things - i.e. layers which sat underneath the card. Groups should have been like every other toolkit which was out there at the time - a collection of controls whose rects were relative to the top-left of their owner (well, more exactly, relative to a co-ordinate system defined by the group). The problem is that, 20 years on, our entire community is used to the way things are. All code is written to that standard and seeing how to move things into a model which the modern world considers the standard way of doing things without putting a line in the sand and saying 'we really have to break everything if you want to use this new feature' has, thus far, defeated me - sorry! (By the way, working out how it might work from a script point of view is one thing; then of course you have to work out how the engine code can actually be moved forward to allow it). Perhaps there is something simple and obvious which I'm missing, but I'm honestly not sure. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 04:44:13 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:44:13 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-14 10:21, Monte Goulding wrote: > Don?t both of these issues disappear if you create a stack view object > instead of group scalefactor? Given a stack which already has a > scaleFactor? Object rects remain relative to the stack whether the > stack is presented as a window or in a view. From the perspective of > the stack with the window it would just have a single view object > which has a stackName and a rect.. perhaps some other stuff like > visible etc... Yup - if you have a 'stackview' control - then the problem goes away because you have a nice clear dividing line between objects in one co-ordinate system compared to the other. We'd probably want some explicit syntax for working out the rect of an object in a stackview, from the point of view of the stack containing the stackview; and also some means to communicate from the embedded stack to the host view... However, perhaps both of these things are unnecessary - the stacks could just as well communicate by sharing a common library. Basically, there aren't really any difficult technical problems if you limit stackviews to being 'the ability to display a stack in a subpart of another stack, rather than a window' with no more integration beyond that, other than them being stacks. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 14 05:01:52 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:01:52 +1100 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> Message-ID: <9273E670-43B3-4C49-917C-1C7D409F1E11@sweattechnologies.com> > On 14 Oct 2015, at 7:44 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > Yup - if you have a 'stackview' control - then the problem goes away because you have a nice clear dividing line between objects in one co-ordinate system compared to the other. > > We'd probably want some explicit syntax for working out the rect of an object in a stackview, from the point of view of the stack containing the stackview; and also some means to communicate from the embedded stack to the host view... However, perhaps both of these things are unnecessary - the stacks could just as well communicate by sharing a common library. I don?t think the communication is necessary as we can communicate in the same ways we currently do between stacks. Some stack object coordinate -> coordinate system it is presented in translation would probably already be helpful. > Basically, there aren't really any difficult technical problems if you limit stackviews to being 'the ability to display a stack in a subpart of another stack, rather than a window' with no more integration beyond that, other than them being stacks. That?s what I mean and if you present it somewhere else (different window or view) then it moves and the previous view is emptied. If you want two instances you clone the stack. Cheers Monte From ilola.antti at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 05:04:38 2015 From: ilola.antti at gmail.com (Antti Ilola) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:04:38 +0300 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <561DF0E3.4040006@fourthworld.com> References: <62C6DAFB-410E-4D34-8D4F-B4E17DC4B30D@earthednet.org> <561DF0E3.4040006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Firefox and Adblock Plus, no ads. 2015-10-14 9:06 GMT+03:00 Richard Gaskin : > William Prothero wrote: > > > I use Safari because it synchronizes all my bookmarks between my > > devices. I know there is a Firefox plugin that does that. I used > > it, but there was an issue I can't remember when I upgraded to > > Yosemite, so I switched. Firefox is a very good option, tho. > > There's a JavaScript blocker for Safari too: > > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 05:07:48 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:07:48 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <9273E670-43B3-4C49-917C-1C7D409F1E11@sweattechnologies.com> References: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> <9273E670-43B3-4C49-917C-1C7D409F1E11@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-14 11:01, Monte Goulding wrote: > That?s what I mean and if you present it somewhere else (different > window or view) then it moves and the previous view is emptied. If you > want two instances you clone the stack. Yes - that would be the simplest way to do things (both technically, and from an actual use point of view). I'll need to ponder where we are with the various 'abstractions' in the engine. The main problem is that MCStack has long been a hybrid window-stack - really, a 'stack' and a 'window' are two distinct concepts and I'm not sure they aren't entirely unentangled yet (Ian has worked on separating things out on and off for years - during the process of implementing High-DPI support and things like fullScreenMode). Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 14 05:57:38 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:57:38 +1100 Subject: [ANN] mergExt: BLE, Google spreadsheets, Map directions, iOS 9 & special price In-Reply-To: <561E1367.60900@cogapp.com> References: <423C8CBC-E2A0-47F9-8A90-882103486716@sweattechnologies.com> <561E1367.60900@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <3FF357B9-7B0D-44FF-8B0C-0069F81CA0D3@sweattechnologies.com> Thanks Ben I?m looking forward to hearing about the things people make with mergBLE. Definitely lots of possibilities for the arduino fans. Cheers Monte > On 14 Oct 2015, at 7:33 pm, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > Just to testify - the new mergBLE arrived right on time to save me struggling through the process of building my own externals, and did exactly what I needed. > > In fact since I was completely unable to locate the resources for building externals, it meant I could stop writing a native app, and immediately become more productive. > > Thank you Monte for your continuing work, which for me absolutely bridges the gap to making LC for iOS a real option. You're a LiveCode Hero. > > Ben > > On 12/10/2015 03:31, Monte Goulding wrote: >> Hi LiveCoders >> >> Today I am releasing a huge update to mergExt Complete and announcing a special price available for the rest of the month. >> >> mergBLE 1.0 - CoreBluetooth external for iOS and OS X. Use BLE between Mac and iOS or between iOS devices or between some of the great sensors available and your app. For the arduino hackers out there you will love pairing this external with the ReadBearLab BLE shield. Control anything from your Mac or iOS device!!! (Also sold separately for $49). >> >> mergGoogle 1.0 - This external for iOS and OS X currently implements google spreadsheets. (Also sold separately for $49). >> >> mergMK 3.0 - This update to mergMK supports querying directions between locations. >> >> iOS 9 support - all the mergExt externals have now been updated for iOS 9 support. >> >> The mergExt Complete bundle now weighs in at a hefty $1038 worth of individual products for only $299. Yes that?s right folks. We?ve cracked the ton! >> >> Special Price: 3 years of access to mergExt Complete for $499. That?s a huge $398 saving folks. Use this link to access the special deal http://mergext.com/special/ > The first 5 people taking advantage of the special price will also get an additional 6 months at no extra charge. Get it while it?s hot!!! >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >> >> -- >> M E R Goulding > >> Software development services >> Bespoke application development for vertical markets >> >> mergExt > - There's an external for that! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 14 06:27:57 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:27:57 +1100 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> <35913ba92fc68ba0230505e93c2e1d11@livecode.com> <9273E670-43B3-4C49-917C-1C7D409F1E11@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1699DA4C-9B8C-430E-A2BE-FD7A40C9CBB4@sweattechnologies.com> > On 14 Oct 2015, at 8:07 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > I'll need to ponder where we are with the various 'abstractions' in the engine. The main problem is that MCStack has long been a hybrid window-stack - really, a 'stack' and a 'window' are two distinct concepts and I'm not sure they aren't entirely unentangled yet (Ian has worked on separating things out on and off for years - during the process of implementing High-DPI support and things like fullScreenMode). Yeah, Im sure there would be lots to do. I think there?s lots of places that assume a stack is either open and has a window or not open or if it doesn?t have a window it needs one etc. Still an interesting idea and seemingly relatively feasible compared to messing with groups. From effendi at wanadoo.fr Wed Oct 14 08:43:37 2015 From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:43:37 +0200 Subject: From any button script, how can I reset the scrollbar of a field to the "top" ? Message-ID: <05F27A67-6DD6-4538-9136-2FBAFB9F8326@wanadoo.fr> Hi from Beautiful Brittany, This is a beginners question (except that I am not a beginner) I've tried everything I know to do this, but all the commands I tried came up with an error. Sounds stupid, don't it ? Is there a soul to help me out ? -Francis From dwilliams at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 08:47:40 2015 From: dwilliams at livecode.com (David Williams) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:47:40 +0100 Subject: From any button script, how can I reset the scrollbar of a field to the "top" ? In-Reply-To: <05F27A67-6DD6-4538-9136-2FBAFB9F8326@wanadoo.fr> References: <05F27A67-6DD6-4538-9136-2FBAFB9F8326@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: Hi Francis, The scrolled amount of a field is defined by the vscroll (vertical) and hscroll (horizontal) properties, so to set the scrollbar back to the top, do this: set the vscroll of field "myField" to 0 -David On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:43:37 +0100, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote: > Hi from Beautiful Brittany, > > This is a beginners question (except that I am not a beginner) > I've tried everything I know to do this, but all the commands > I tried came up with an error. Sounds stupid, don't it ? > > Is there a soul to help me out ? > > -Francis > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 09:06:17 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:06:17 +0300 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561E5349.6090303@gmail.com> On 14/10/15 11:14, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > However, LC8 will be better than LC7, and subsequent LC versions will > be better still. The more people who get involved to help us reach the > goal of a lightweight IDE Framework, the more quickly it will happen > and the better it will be. > That sounds a bit dogmatic. I can imagine some people not being entirely convinced about certain aspects of LiveCode 8: for instance, they might feel that things have suddenly become rather unnecessarily over-complicated. ----------------- I don't really understand all that stuff about IDEs and frameworks but I do understand why birds have wings and people don't: Genetically there is not that much different between birds and people; what there is in common is what we might choose to call (at the risk of offending all sorts of people) "God's Universal LEGO kit", or the Basic DNA set. If one were clever enough one could have women giving birth to babies with wings by making sure that while those babies were developing in the womb the switches for wings were turned on, and the switches for arms and fingers were turned off. The fact that I have red hair and white skin, and that my best friend has black hair and dark brown skin is a simple illustration of this principle. NOW: I can imagine a stack that resides in the plug-ins folder of a LiveCode installation [lets' call it stack "X"] that, when the end-user starts up LiveCode sets all sorts of "switches" to suppress parts of RunRev's IDE and activate equivalent-but-different parts developed by someone else. In fact I made a very crude stack that bungs a button on the revMenuBar stack and turns both the revMenuBar and the revTools stacks black about a week ago: this could be regarded as an indication of the direction in which IDE hacks should be moving: AND, before you rush to thank me, don't, as that was not my clever idea - I just implemented somebody else's clever idea. I did understand that bit about different parts of the IDE chatting to each other, and any set of switches would have to take that into account. A baby with wings but no sternum to anchor them to would die as soon as it tried to stretch its wings. Richmond. From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 09:37:14 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:37:14 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Ken Ray and I discussed having one of the theoretical collapsible headers > being Favorites, so anyone who finds themselves using a certain subset of > props frequently can include them there while still keeping the logical > groupings it would ship with by default. I hadn't been paying attention to this thread, but then Mark and Richard mentioned me, so here I am. My latest update to Navigator (which I haven't officially updated for some time) does two things: 1. It collects recently-accessed properties at the top of the list. 2. It lets the developer specify a list of properties to always show at the top of the list. Both of the above are determined individually by object type. That said, Navigator doesn't support custom interfaces for any property types other than booleans, which you can click to set/unset, and 2- and 4-item lists, which it allows you to just type in and hit return to set. Further, I haven't even begun to look at widgets, but if they're implemented as a group of underlying objects, then Navigator doesn't (yet) handle that intelligently at all. *That* said, the above frequently-used-properties item took a couple hours to implement and wasn't difficult. gc From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 09:40:49 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:40:49 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > The properties array of an object does not include properties which can be > derived from other properties. That change was made a few releases back > and no method of invoking the prior behavior (perhaps "the effective > properties") was provided. > > Also, the propertynames list is missing some entries and includes some > entries that seem more like keywords than properties, e.g. "abbrev". > This is why I implemented a preference for properties-to-add-to-the-list in Navigator. That way it doesn't matter if the propertynames doesn't include the blork property -- I can add it to the list before releasing a new version of Navigator, or if I miss something, a developer can add it themselves. From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 09:49:51 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:49:51 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:16 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > Tools can be entirely self-contained and fully interchangeable, even >> open at the same time, using nothing more than what the engine has >> provided for years. >> > > Really? Are you sure that is true? > > So you would have every 'application browser' type tool implement its own > code for monitoring for changes in the user stacks, and for collecting all > the data about the objects in user stacks? > > You would have every 'tools palette' type tool implement its own code to > go digging around on disk for all extensions, listing, enumerating and > providing an ability to create them? > No. The IDE already provides messages that things have changed, and all Navigator has to do is get its name on the list of message receivers. After that Navigator just responds to the update requests it receives. It doesn't have its own code for monitoring changes, and it is self-contained as Richard says. From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 09:59:51 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:59:51 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 4:14 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-13 17:35, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > I see no harm in encouraging people to just continue doing what >> they've been enjoying for decades: making tools to help their work >> and sharing them with others. >> > > Indeed - there is no harm at all - it is actually quite important. I > wasn't implying that it shouldn't be encouraged... > > All of the tools I've referred to - Mark Weider's, Bjornke's, Geoff's, >> Peter's, and others' - exist. Why not have more? Why not have a >> convenient launcher for them? >> > > Great - how do you ensure that Mark's tools don't interfere with Geoff's > so users can use them side-by-side? > > If every toolmaker has to take into account every other toolmaker's 'way > of doing things' you end up with a situation where one individual who wants > to write a tool needs to learn about everybody else's if they want to > distribute it for the benefit of all. I've never found this to be the case. I have never had someone report a bug to me because some other tool interfered with Navigator, or because Navigator tripped up someone else's tool. > Indeed - advocacy and implementation are two entirely separate things > though - which is perhaps why no such widespread 'lightweight IDE system' > has appeared (to my knowledge at least). > > And there is one salient aspect: neither of us is describing an IDE >> that exists today. >> > > I cannot agree there. You may be describing an IDE which does not exist > today - some sort of mystical entity which will just appear naturally out > of a lot of people playing around in a sandpit. Unfortunately, I don't have > much confidence in chaos producing anything in any particularly useful > timeframe (the mathematician in me screams that the numbers just don't add > up in that regard). > I think Navigator is useful. I've used it in place of everything except the script editor and the dictionary for over ten years. Let a thousand flowers bloom. >> > > Indeed - a thousand flowers blooming can be a truly breathtaking sight. > > However, it is much less amazing if those thousand flowers are dotted > around the world individually, not being able to be brought together > because they cannot co-exist within the same climate, or in the same soil. Again, unless I'm misunderstanding you, this isn't accurate -- Navigator happily co-exists with every tool I know. From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 10:13:47 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:13:47 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1800dd83165f6020c559694eef32dfe1@livecode.com> On 2015-10-14 15:37, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Further, I haven't even begun to look at widgets, but if they're > implemented as a group of underlying objects, then Navigator doesn't > (yet) > handle that intelligently at all. They aren't groups of underlying objects - they are black-boxes like the engine controls. Indeed, they are a mechanism for (essentially) writing engine controls incredibly easily and accessibly (relative to doing so in C++, at least) and they plug into LiveCode Script just like all the existing ones. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 10:21:05 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:21:05 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-14 15:59, Geoff Canyon wrote: > I've never found this to be the case. I have never had someone report a > bug > to me because some other tool interfered with Navigator, or because > Navigator tripped up someone else's tool. I wasn't saying Navigator ever caused a problem, I was more talking about how to construct an environment which minimises the chance of such a negative interaction *and* ensures the toolmakers don't have to do more work than necessary to actually write their tool. > I think Navigator is useful. I've used it in place of everything except > the > script editor and the dictionary for over ten years. Indeed - it is a nice compact tool - I've played with it over the years (at least the version which is currently in plugins) particularly when checking that we haven't broken anything in the engine :) > Again, unless I'm misunderstanding you, this isn't accurate -- > Navigator > happily co-exists with every tool I know. As I said above, I wasn't talking about specific tools, nor any specific problems at the moment. I just want to make sure we make tool writing as easy and painless as possible - my thoughts on doing this are that we build a well maintained, well documented and simple API which all tools sit on. Any 'hairy details' can sit below the API (just as the engine hides many hairy details of cross-platform development from script), and anything sitting on top the API can be assured of the environment which it runs in. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 10:28:08 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:28:08 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <1800dd83165f6020c559694eef32dfe1@livecode.com> References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> <1800dd83165f6020c559694eef32dfe1@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > [Widgets] aren't groups of underlying objects - they are black-boxes like > the engine controls. Indeed, they are a mechanism for (essentially) writing > engine controls incredibly easily and accessibly (relative to doing so in > C++, at least) and they plug into LiveCode Script just like all the > existing ones. Yay, then hopefully I won't have to update Navigator much/at all. From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 10:29:48 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:29:48 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > Again, unless I'm misunderstanding you, this isn't accurate -- Navigator >> happily co-exists with every tool I know. >> > > As I said above, I wasn't talking about specific tools, nor any specific > problems at the moment. I wasn't defending Navigator specifically, just pointing out that, in my experience, the current framework allows for reasonably clean development of tools. From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 10:40:18 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:40:18 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> Message-ID: <0a816f3c9ab11fb2b3902dd90c8811c5@livecode.com> On 2015-10-14 16:29, Geoff Canyon wrote: > I wasn't defending Navigator specifically, just pointing out that, in > my > experience, the current framework allows for reasonably clean > development > of tools. But there *is* a framework :) We've learnt a lot from trying to write new components in the existing IDE and it has not been easy in many cases - hence the determination we have of trying to drag the current IDE through into the modern era by re-underpinning it. Through doing so, we'll hopefully get to a state that all components in the IDE are essentially optional and replaceable, and will all run on a common foundation (which would sit just above the IDE engine). If you needed a sha1Digest function you'd probably not go off and write your own in LiveCode Script (unless it was something you were *really* interested in doing), you'd use the engine one. I'd like a similar thing to be true at the IDE level. Ideally, there'd be a good set of IDE APIs which you'd be able to use when you need to do a certain thing in a tool - rather than having to go off and write your own (unless that is your specific interest of course!). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Oct 14 11:19:12 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:19:12 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <0a816f3c9ab11fb2b3902dd90c8811c5@livecode.com> References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> <0a816f3c9ab11fb2b3902dd90c8811c5@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561E7270.5000705@ahsoftware.net> On 10/14/2015 07:40 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > If you needed a sha1Digest function you'd probably not go off and write > your own in LiveCode Script (unless it was something you were *really* > interested in doing), you'd use the engine one. Given the recent demonstration of a poc sha1 collision, I'd like a sha2Digest function, but again, I'd use the functionality from the openssl library rather than foolishly crating my own. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Oct 14 11:23:08 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:23:08 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <561E735C.40407@ahsoftware.net> On 10/14/2015 06:49 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > No. The IDE already provides messages that things have changed, and all > Navigator has to do is get its name on the list of message receivers. After > that Navigator just responds to the update requests it receives. It doesn't > have its own code for monitoring changes, and it is self-contained as > Richard says. Exactly. And that's, for the most part, how PowerTools works as well. The hard part of tool coexistence is when you have to cooperate with frontscript handlers that may or may not do the right thing before you have a chance to handle messages. Duelling frontscripts gets ugly. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Oct 14 11:28:40 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:28:40 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> <1800dd83165f6020c559694eef32dfe1@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561E74A8.603@ahsoftware.net> On 10/14/2015 07:28 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Yay, then hopefully I won't have to update Navigator much/at all. You shouldn't have much trouble with it. Aside from spotty documentation, I added Extension/Widget support to PowerTools fairly easily. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 11:32:11 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:32:11 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561E7270.5000705@ahsoftware.net> References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> <0a816f3c9ab11fb2b3902dd90c8811c5@livecode.com> <561E7270.5000705@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <1165454e0a18632a62d23f4034f66b96@livecode.com> On 2015-10-14 17:19, Mark Wieder wrote: > Given the recent demonstration of a poc sha1 collision, I'd like a > sha2Digest function, but again, I'd use the functionality from the > openssl library rather than foolishly crating my own. Slightly Off-Topic... But... I wrote up a spec a while ago about digest functions in LC. There's a PR for the spec here: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/1897 Please feel free to read and add any comments on the syntax etc. and reasonings that are there. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 11:33:41 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:33:41 +0200 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561E735C.40407@ahsoftware.net> References: <35a9f2c0ef5f2e916849bca5fe265718@livecode.com> <561C1885.1080909@fourthworld.com> <561E735C.40407@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On 2015-10-14 17:23, Mark Wieder wrote: > Exactly. And that's, for the most part, how PowerTools works as well. > The hard part of tool coexistence is when you have to cooperate with > frontscript handlers that may or may not do the right thing before you > have a chance to handle messages. Duelling frontscripts gets ugly. Sounds like a good reason to have a well-written (and well documented *cough*) IDE API that allows you to subscribe for the critical notifications your tool needs to function correctly to me ;) Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 14 12:13:42 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:13:42 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561E74A8.603@ahsoftware.net> References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> <1800dd83165f6020c559694eef32dfe1@livecode.com> <561E74A8.603@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: New version of lcStackBrowser coming out this week with Widget support. Not super difficult but did involve some searching around to figure out how to get the properties of a widget. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:28 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/14/2015 07:28 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > Yay, then hopefully I won't have to update Navigator much/at all. >> > > You shouldn't have much trouble with it. Aside from spotty documentation, > I added Extension/Widget support to PowerTools fairly easily. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 13:07:09 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:07:09 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561E8BBD.7070309@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > New version of lcStackBrowser coming out this week with Widget support. > Not super difficult but did involve some searching around to figure out how > to get the properties of a widget. If Widgets are a means of adding new objects to LC Script to compliment the existing ones, wouldn't "the properties" work as it always has? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Oct 14 13:13:53 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:13:53 -0500 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5E62FF0B-DAB2-4A88-A504-15F68E35BF43@hyperactivesw.com> It's likely you've never had interference issues with Navigator because users wouldn't be using more than one property inspector simultaneously. But my Zygodact system did interfere with the GLX framework and I had to rewrite it to accommodate GLX. It wasn't how I wanted things to work, but enough people were using GLX at the time that it was necessary. Fixing the problem required communication between me and the author. The conflict occurred because of different approaches when handling preferences files. Standardization would have avoided the issue. On October 14, 2015 8:59:51 AM CDT, Geoff Canyon wrote: >On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 4:14 AM, Mark Waddingham >wrote: >> Great - how do you ensure that Mark's tools don't interfere with >Geoff's >> so users can use them side-by-side? >> >> If every toolmaker has to take into account every other toolmaker's >'way >> of doing things' you end up with a situation where one individual who >wants >> to write a tool needs to learn about everybody else's if they want to >> distribute it for the benefit of all. > > >I've never found this to be the case. I have never had someone report a >bug >to me because some other tool interfered with Navigator, or because >Navigator tripped up someone else's tool. > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 14 13:33:24 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:33:24 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561E8BBD.7070309@fourthworld.com> References: <561E8BBD.7070309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Would be great if that were the case and maybe it will be eventually but when I tried "get the keys of widget 1 of this card", I got an empty array. Widgets have their own set of properties which are defined as part of the process of creating them. You get and set them as any other property but lcStackbrowser needs to discover their names. They're somewhat akin to custom properties in my mind but they don't show up as such in the IDE. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > >> New version of lcStackBrowser coming out this week with Widget support. >> Not super difficult but did involve some searching around to figure out >> how >> to get the properties of a widget. >> > > If Widgets are a means of adding new objects to LC Script to compliment > the existing ones, wouldn't "the properties" work as it always has? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 13:43:42 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:43:42 +0100 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561E8BBD.7070309@fourthworld.com> References: <561E8BBD.7070309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <444E44A7-5007-4D13-AA06-E82406A27199@livecode.com> Well, as has been the subject of other threads on here and the forums, 'the properties' whilst well meaning has never been particularly well defined. Monte did significant work on it a couple of years ago to make it work for lcVCS but that meant putting in specific code for the engine controls to ensure overlapping properties didn't affect the end result. However, how to do that generally for widgets is not yet clear. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 14 Oct 2015, at 18:07, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Peter Haworth wrote: >> New version of lcStackBrowser coming out this week with Widget support. >> Not super difficult but did involve some searching around to figure out how >> to get the properties of a widget. > > If Widgets are a means of adding new objects to LC Script to compliment the existing ones, wouldn't "the properties" work as it always has? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 13:45:39 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:45:39 +0100 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <561E8BBD.7070309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <129461F3-89A5-4E3F-84E3-542815C2338A@livecode.com> For what you are doing, I suspect it is the underlying details about what the properties are and their 'meta' attributes which are really needed. There are functions in the LC8 IDE for getting thins information for all controls - using the metadata file which accompanies any widget - however, we really need to document them :) What approach did you take in the end? Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 14 Oct 2015, at 18:33, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Would be great if that were the case and maybe it will be eventually but > when I tried "get the keys of widget 1 of this card", I got an empty array. > > Widgets have their own set of properties which are defined as part of the > process of creating them. You get and set them as any other property but > lcStackbrowser needs to discover their names. They're somewhat akin to > custom properties in my mind but they don't show up as such in the IDE. > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Peter Haworth wrote: >> >>> New version of lcStackBrowser coming out this week with Widget support. >>> Not super difficult but did involve some searching around to figure out >>> how >>> to get the properties of a widget. >> >> If Widgets are a means of adding new objects to LC Script to compliment >> the existing ones, wouldn't "the properties" work as it always has? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 14 13:52:17 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:52:17 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <129461F3-89A5-4E3F-84E3-542815C2338A@livecode.com> References: <561E8BBD.7070309@fourthworld.com> <129461F3-89A5-4E3F-84E3-542815C2338A@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi Mark, I found revIDEExtensionProperties and used it. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > For what you are doing, I suspect it is the underlying details about what > the properties are and their 'meta' attributes which are really needed. > > There are functions in the LC8 IDE for getting thins information for all > controls - using the metadata file which accompanies any widget - however, > we really need to document them :) > > What approach did you take in the end? > > Mark. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 14 Oct 2015, at 18:33, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > Would be great if that were the case and maybe it will be eventually but > > when I tried "get the keys of widget 1 of this card", I got an empty > array. > > > > Widgets have their own set of properties which are defined as part of the > > process of creating them. You get and set them as any other property but > > lcStackbrowser needs to discover their names. They're somewhat akin to > > custom properties in my mind but they don't show up as such in the IDE. > > > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com > >> wrote: > > > >> Peter Haworth wrote: > >> > >>> New version of lcStackBrowser coming out this week with Widget support. > >>> Not super difficult but did involve some searching around to figure out > >>> how > >>> to get the properties of a widget. > >> > >> If Widgets are a means of adding new objects to LC Script to compliment > >> the existing ones, wouldn't "the properties" work as it always has? > >> > >> -- > >> Richard Gaskin > >> Fourth World Systems > >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > >> ____________________________________________________________________ > >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 13:54:50 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:54:50 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5E62FF0B-DAB2-4A88-A504-15F68E35BF43@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5E62FF0B-DAB2-4A88-A504-15F68E35BF43@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <561E96EA.3030704@fourthworld.com> J. Landman Gay wrote: > It's likely you've never had interference issues with Navigator > because users wouldn't be using more than one property inspector > simultaneously. But my Zygodact system did interfere with the GLX > framework and I had to rewrite it to accommodate GLX. It wasn't how > I wanted things to work, but enough people were using GLX at the > time that it was necessary. Fixing the problem required communication > between me and the author. > > The conflict occurred because of different approaches when handling > preferences files. Standardization would have avoided the issue. It would be interesting to learn more about the details of that conflict, informative for both the IDE team and skunkworks projects alike. It may be a question of scope, since as you noted that GLX isn't a discrete tool but a framework. Ideally even frameworks should coexist, at least when of different types, since things like GLX are for apps and an IDE's being for the tools run alongside the app during development. This is one reason why, although I'm aware of the difference between a plugin and a framework (I've been making both for decades), I don't often distinguish them in discussions of the opportunities and challenges of either: the underlying issues with regard to components playing nice together are similar, varying mostly in scope but not so much in their nature. Indeed. the more I think about your specific circumstance the more I realize that what you're describing reinforces my point that dependence on presumptions of a single monolithic framework can sometimes introduce as many issues as they seek to address: Even if there were one single modular framework for IDE tools, what occurred in your circumstance is quite different, a conflict between *application* frameworks which each assume themselves to be the only such thing in play. We hope that the LC world would have many app frameworks over time, just as one expects to find for any popular language like JavaScript or Python. And like frameworks in other languages, they're not always mix-and-match. Standardizing some core elements like prefs handling may be useful for all app framework developers to discuss and explore solutions for (Andre once proposed a stdLib for LiveCode for exactly that reason), but anything app frameworks do would be independent of any IDE frameworks used alongside them. There are many ways to resolve such conflicts, one of them being lengthy discussions of all possible circumstances and an expensive effort to craft a single one-size-fits-all solution to accommodate every app developer's need. But I find I learn a lot just watching how things organically evolve, as they did here: a conflict was discovered, a script change affordably implemented, and both toolkits now live happily together with minimal effort. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 13:58:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:58:53 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561E97DD.7090408@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > Would be great if that were the case and maybe it will be eventually but > when I tried "get the keys of widget 1 of this card", I got an empty array. I'm unable to do that here even with built-in objects in v7.1: get the keys of this stack -- throws error put the properties of this stack into tA; get the keys of tA -- works Are you able to get "the keys" of built-in objects? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Oct 14 14:03:44 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: sha digest References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> <0a816f3c9ab11fb2b3902dd90c8811c5@livecode.com> <561E7270.5000705@ahsoftware.net> <1165454e0a18632a62d23f4034f66b96@livecode.com> Message-ID: Mark Waddingham writes: > Slightly Off-Topic... But... Well, you started it... > > I wrote up a spec a while ago about digest functions in LC. There's a PR > for the spec here: > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/1897 > > Please feel free to read and add any comments on the syntax etc. and > reasonings that are there. Looks. good. Comments added. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 14:05:38 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:05:38 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561E9972.2010005@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > I wasn't defending Navigator specifically, just pointing out that, > in my experience, the current framework allows for reasonably clean > development of tools. In the case of RevNavigator even more so: your tool politely checks for the existence of revMenubar when it inits, and if it doesn't find one it inserts a slender frontScript to provide the handful of handlers it relies on. This allows it to be enjoyed in the MetaCard IDE or even OpenCard along with the LiveCode IDE and conceivably any other, all fully self-contained, nimble, and (at least in my experience having used it in two different IDEs) error-free. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 14:08:54 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:08:54 -0700 Subject: sha digest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561E9A36.5000007@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Mark Waddingham writes: >> I wrote up a spec a while ago about digest functions in LC. There's a PR >> for the spec here: >> >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/1897 >> >> Please feel free to read and add any comments on the syntax etc. and >> reasonings that are there. > > Looks. good. +1 There's an sha256 I needed not long ago in Mark Smith's library, and its output matches what I get from other tools so it seems to be reasonably robust. But given the importance of good cryptographic hashes, and that many are computationally intensive, I very much appreciate the thought going into this method for adding new ones. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 14:13:43 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:13:43 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561E735C.40407@ahsoftware.net> References: <561E735C.40407@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <561E9B57.9050707@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > The hard part of tool coexistence is when you have to cooperate with > frontscript handlers that may or may not do the right thing before you > have a chance to handle messages. Duelling frontscripts gets ugly. A few years ago I proposed to my congressman that he introduce a bill mandating jail time for any LiveCode scripter who writes dev tools with frontScripts that don't pass system messages. Oddly, the proposal was not taken seriously. So it's up to us to enforce this voluntarily. Thankfully it's just a single line of code, so we rarely see felony offenders. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 14 14:15:45 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:15:45 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561E97DD.7090408@fourthworld.com> References: <561E97DD.7090408@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Typo - s/b get the properties of widget 1 of this card. Believe me Richard, it doesn't work, as per Mark W's response. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Would be great if that were the case and maybe it will be eventually but >> when I tried "get the keys of widget 1 of this card", I got an empty >> array. >> > > I'm unable to do that here even with built-in objects in v7.1: > > get the keys of this stack -- throws error > > put the properties of this stack into tA; get the keys of tA -- works > > Are you able to get "the keys" of built-in objects? > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 14:21:36 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:21:36 -0700 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: <1444691133576-4697311.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > function greatestLessThan pList,V > sort items of pList descending numeric > sort items of pList by each >= V > return item 1 of pList > end greatestLessThan Something along these lines was what I'm trying to wrap my head around, when it twisted my mind into a pretzel. I came up with *on* mouseUp *put* getNxtSmlst("2, 5, 8, 15, 22", 8) *end* mouseUp *function* getNxtSmlst list,floorVal *sort* items of list by cmpr(each,floorVal) *end* getNxtSmlst *function* cmpr val,flr *if* val < flr *then* *return* val -flr *else* *return* -1 *end* *if* *end* cmpr But staying with pure intrinsics should be a wind, I'd think. That one came from *wanting * to write, sort items of theList descending by (each <= floor) * (floor-each) --but aside from liveCode not coercing the logical to a 1/0 value (as I thought it did--too many languages over the years!), I think it misses the case where the value is in the list. This is always going to have a relatively small number of entries in the list; it would be more than unusual to have more than a couple of dozen transitions between the "canned" paragraph text and the values merged in. The function will be called on mouseMove, though, to pop up an field over the merge values as the mouse passes over them. I know that the elements of an array aren't in any particular order, but does keys return them in numeric order if they are all numeric? (Some distant memory says that this is an exception. The keys also would have been added in numeric order. For that matter, they could be stored on render. In any event, I think the algorithm can presume that the numbers are ordered. And I'm amazed at how much more I'm learning about other pieces of liveCode. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 14:25:08 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:25:08 -0700 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <1505c42f9e6-4ecb-79e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> References: <561B31D6.4070100@hyperactivesw.com> <1505c42f9e6-4ecb-79e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 6:35 AM, wrote: > My gadget adds the index in a parameter to the function. if it already > exists in the list, the addition is superfluous, but harmless. > But if the search list is "2, 4", and the search value is 3, doesn't this return "3" rather than 2? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 14:35:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:35:53 -0700 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561EA089.1040804@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > Typo - s/b get the properties of widget 1 of this card. > > Believe me Richard, it doesn't work, as per Mark W's response. I have no reason to doubt you. I was just hoping I'd missed some cool trick with the language. I'm sure as LCB evolves it'll continue to do an ever better job of allowing Widgets to compliment and ultimately replace the objects we're used to working with in the ways we work with them. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From prothero at earthednet.org Wed Oct 14 14:39:29 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:39:29 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <561DF0E3.4040006@fourthworld.com> References: <62C6DAFB-410E-4D34-8D4F-B4E17DC4B30D@earthednet.org> <561DF0E3.4040006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1777E776-0A24-41DB-8785-C7D323CB8FDF@earthednet.org> Richard: Tnx for the info on the ad blockers. Thinking for the long run, though, getting a wiki on a site without so many ads, in a version of Wiki that can be exported easily to another site, seems a good idea. Best, Bill > On Oct 13, 2015, at 11:06 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > William Prothero wrote: > > > I use Safari because it synchronizes all my bookmarks between my > > devices. I know there is a Firefox plugin that does that. I used > > it, but there was an issue I can't remember when I upgraded to > > Yosemite, so I switched. Firefox is a very good option, tho. > > There's a JavaScript blocker for Safari too: > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 14:50:21 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:50:21 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <5616DE22.70307@fourthworld.com> <1800dd83165f6020c559694eef32dfe1@livecode.com> <561E74A8.603@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > New version of lcStackBrowser coming out this week with Widget support. > Not super difficult but did involve some searching around to figure out how > to get the properties of a widget. > Great, then my biggest problem is that I have two versions at present: one that is function, but which has the spaghetti code from hell in it, and the updated version, which is vastly cleaned up, but significantly buggy at present. Picking up twelve-year-old code sucks. From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 14:54:56 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:54:56 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5E62FF0B-DAB2-4A88-A504-15F68E35BF43@hyperactivesw.com> References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> <5E62FF0B-DAB2-4A88-A504-15F68E35BF43@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Interesting -- does/did GLX remove the update messages the IDE sends? Other than that, I don't think there's anything Navigator needs/does that could cause a problem, but of course I'm not really thinking about it thoroughly. If someone complained I might, but Navigator has been mostly unsupported for some time now. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:13 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > It's likely you've never had interference issues with Navigator because > users wouldn't be using more than one property inspector simultaneously. > But my Zygodact system did interfere with the GLX framework and I had to > rewrite it to accommodate GLX. It wasn't how I wanted things to work, but > enough people were using GLX at the time that it was necessary. Fixing the > problem required communication between me and the author. > > The conflict occurred because of different approaches when handling > preferences files. Standardization would have avoided the issue. > > On October 14, 2015 8:59:51 AM CDT, Geoff Canyon > wrote: > >On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 4:14 AM, Mark Waddingham > >wrote: > >> Great - how do you ensure that Mark's tools don't interfere with > >Geoff's > >> so users can use them side-by-side? > >> > >> If every toolmaker has to take into account every other toolmaker's > >'way > >> of doing things' you end up with a situation where one individual who > >wants > >> to write a tool needs to learn about everybody else's if they want to > >> distribute it for the benefit of all. > > > > > >I've never found this to be the case. I have never had someone report a > >bug > >to me because some other tool interfered with Navigator, or because > >Navigator tripped up someone else's tool. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 14:57:44 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:57:44 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561E9972.2010005@fourthworld.com> References: <561E9972.2010005@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Geoff Canyon wrote: > > I wasn't defending Navigator specifically, just pointing out that, > > in my experience, the current framework allows for reasonably clean > > development of tools. > > In the case of RevNavigator even more so: your tool politely checks for > the existence of revMenubar when it inits, and if it doesn't find one it > inserts a slender frontScript to provide the handful of handlers it relies > on. This allows it to be enjoyed in the MetaCard IDE or even OpenCard > along with the LiveCode IDE and conceivably any other, all fully > self-contained, nimble, and (at least in my experience having used it in > two different IDEs) error-free. Wow, check me out. I hope I haven't broken that behavior with my recent round of updates. I'll check. gc From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 14:59:21 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:59:21 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials In-Reply-To: <1777E776-0A24-41DB-8785-C7D323CB8FDF@earthednet.org> References: <1777E776-0A24-41DB-8785-C7D323CB8FDF@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <561EA609.8030805@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > Richard: > Tnx for the info on the ad blockers. > > Thinking for the long run, though, getting a wiki on a site without > so many ads, in a version of Wiki that can be exported easily to > another site, seems a good idea. Agreed. Feel free to discuss it with the Max, the current wiki owner. He's welcome to write me anytime - he's been very helpful in the community, esp. in the forums. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From prothero at earthednet.org Wed Oct 14 15:41:44 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:41:44 -0700 Subject: Learning Materials Message-ID: <9F932C2F-31EB-4766-8A14-F919D75FC177@earthednet.org> Richard: I have cc?d this to Max. Max: Your Wiki site looks really great and could become a very valuable community documentation resource. What we?re thinking, in this thread, is that as a long term investment it would be more optimum to host the wiki on a site that has no (or much less) advertising and has a facility for exporting the wiki to other servers if needed in the future. After all, we hope Livecode lives on after we all exit the scene. Richard Gaskin has offered to host the wiki on his server, with a unique domain at no cost to us. I think this could become an incredible resource. The thread on this topic has some ideas about various levels of documentation, running from simple command documents to ?how to? segments on doing specific tasks in livecode, to links to the Livecode lessons site for more complete app building cookbook type resources. If you are interested, please contact Richard Gaskin and see if this appeals to you, or is even possible from the Wikia site. Your wiki site has wonderful potential. Here?s hoping it gets lots of community input. Best, Bill Prothero William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 14 16:12:42 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:12:42 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <872fb031d3352a61dd86286a7bd542df@livecode.com> References: <872fb031d3352a61dd86286a7bd542df@livecode.com> Message-ID: <561EB73A.4010108@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-14 09:46, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Maybe those could be handled as the HTML Canvas does, in which the >> coordinates you use remain the same and the scale factor takes case of >> the translation for us when rendering. > > The problem is the mixture of co-ordinate systems on a card, if you have > a scaled button in a group and an unscaled button outside of a group - > how do coords work in an arbitrary script potentially unrelated to > either? How is that handled in HTML's Canvas? Is the SVG Canvas any different? I don't want to talk you out of adding the stack viewer object if that's easier to do (that's the one thing I miss from Gain Momenum), but given how HTML5 and SVG allow different scales for different objects I'd favor any solution that reduces learning time for folks familiar with those popular solutions. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Oct 14 16:19:09 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:19:09 +0000 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? Message-ID: In a simple calculator exercise I?m doing with my class I need to know whether the string in a field is "0" vs. "0.? (The latter can occur when the user enters zero + dot into the calculator display field.) If it?s just ?0? the next next number key press should replace the contents of the display field; if it?s ?0.? the next number key should be placed *after* the display field. But if the contents of fld ?display? is ?0.?, all of the following evaluate as TRUE: fld ?display? = ?0.? # as expected fld ?display" = 0 # makes sense, because right side of comparison is a number fld ?display? = ?0? # seems like this ought to be comparing string to string char 1 to 2 of fld ?display? is ?0? # Really?! Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries to be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I want to know if it?s the exact string? I guess I could do this dance: if char 1 of fld ?display? is ?0? and char 2 of fld ?display? is NOT ?0? then? It?s seems to complicated for such a simple thing, especially for explaining to novice programmers. Maybe I?m missing something obvious. Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Oct 14 16:23:54 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:23:54 +0000 Subject: From any button script, how can I reset the scrollbar of a field to the "top" ? In-Reply-To: <05F27A67-6DD6-4538-9136-2FBAFB9F8326@wanadoo.fr> References: <05F27A67-6DD6-4538-9136-2FBAFB9F8326@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <1F93D5B9-148D-44F8-B88D-BC1593C710B1@byu.edu> > On Oct 14, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote: > > Hi from Beautiful Brittany, > > This is a beginners question (except that I am not a beginner) > I've tried everything I know to do this, but all the commands > I tried came up with an error. Sounds stupid, don't it ? > > Is there a soul to help me out ? > > -Francis Did you try ?set the vScroll of fld ?foo? to 0?? Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From paul at researchware.com Wed Oct 14 16:39:14 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:39:14 -0400 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561EBD72.80903@researchware.com> if fld "Display" contains "." then of if you're just concerned with it ending with "." if fld "Display ends with "." then From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 16:40:12 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:40:12 -0700 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries to > be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I want to > know if it?s the exact string? > if (space & field "Display" ) = (space & someValue) then . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Oct 14 16:42:07 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:42:07 -0500 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> <5E62FF0B-DAB2-4A88-A504-15F68E35BF43@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <561EBE1F.1010001@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/14/2015 1:54 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Interesting -- does/did GLX remove the update messages the IDE sends? I don't know but I doubt it. The problem in my case was that Zygodact's Registration dialog needs to store info in a prefs stack, and is intended to be opened before the mainstack is displayed. My method was to open the prefs stack, store the info, and remove it on the assumption that Zygodact should not interfere with the developer's instructions about whether the prefs should be in RAM or not. If their script opens a prefs file later, no problem. If not, prefs won't hang around. GLX has startup handlers that also work with prefs, and GLX leaves the stack open. When Zygodact closed it soon afterward, GLX errored. There were two ways to solve it. GLX could have checked the openstacks and reopened it if necessary, or Zygodact could have just left the file open. It was easier for me to leave it open, which hasn't seemed to interfere really with anything else the developer did with it except that there's a possibly unwanted stack in RAM. But the point is, there was interference that required me to know what another tool (or framework in this case) was doing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 14 16:53:26 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:53:26 +0100 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561EB73A.4010108@fourthworld.com> References: <872fb031d3352a61dd86286a7bd542df@livecode.com> <561EB73A.4010108@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1DFD2EB8-08BD-4E64-96FC-1AC4FF1A229A@livecode.com> The HTML5 canvas doesn't have that problem - canvas is just a render target you can use 2d vector drawing commands on - it doesn't have any notion of objects. SVG and HTML's object model has always been children's coords are relative to the parent so you have to think about coordinate systems when you code (assuming you are using transforms of any kind and are passing points between related objects and are actually scripting anything that relies on coords). The problem is that (ignoring coords being integers in LC at the moment - which is also a problem) all current scripts that exist assume coords are relative to the card - and I'm not sure there's a way to bridge those two things in a transparent / easy way. It is the scripting part that is the potential issue, rather than the rendering part. LiveCode's message path encourages you to factor out common code into ancestors, and as such might receive coordinates from any descendent - and this would complicate scripting in any such situation if transforms were involved somewhere between the origin of the coordinate and where that coordinate is handled. Then again, perhaps that is okay - it's a necessary tax on the scripter for using that feature. Hmmmmmm. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 14 Oct 2015, at 21:12, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Mark Waddingham wrote: >>> On 2015-10-14 09:46, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> Maybe those could be handled as the HTML Canvas does, in which the >>> coordinates you use remain the same and the scale factor takes case of >>> the translation for us when rendering. >> >> The problem is the mixture of co-ordinate systems on a card, if you have >> a scaled button in a group and an unscaled button outside of a group - >> how do coords work in an arbitrary script potentially unrelated to >> either? > > How is that handled in HTML's Canvas? Is the SVG Canvas any different? > > I don't want to talk you out of adding the stack viewer object if that's easier to do (that's the one thing I miss from Gain Momenum), but given how HTML5 and SVG allow different scales for different objects I'd favor any solution that reduces learning time for folks familiar with those popular solutions. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Oct 14 17:01:46 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:01:46 +0000 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A4136AB-72D4-4FFE-97BC-C80411D5906C@byu.edu> > On Oct 14, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > >> Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries to >> be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I want to >> know if it?s the exact string? >> > > if (space & field "Display" ) = (space & someValue) then . . . Believe it or not, when field ?display? contains ?0.?, the following evaluates to TRUE: if (space & fld ?display?) = (space & ?0?) then ? # TRUE! And even: if (space & fld "display" & space) = (space & "0" & space) then ? # TRUE AGAIN! It?s the space that?s the problem. Any other character seems to do the trick: if ("!" & fld "display") = ("!" & "0?) then ? # FALSE Try explaining that to newbies. ?Oh, I?m just coercing LiveCode to cast the field contents as a string instead of a number.? Blank stares and crickets? :) Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Oct 14 17:10:05 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:10:05 +0000 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <561EBD72.80903@researchware.com> References: <561EBD72.80903@researchware.com> Message-ID: <8E407D98-28DA-472F-931A-8E99FCFA7A66@byu.edu> > On Oct 14, 2015, at 2:39 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > > if fld "Display" contains "." then > > of if you're just concerned with it ending with "." > > if fld "Display ends with ".? then Yeah, that works, but then I end up with a mess like this: if fld ?display? = 0 AND NOT fld ?display? ends with ?.? then ? But this may be what I have to go with. That?s at least *sort of* comprehensible to a newbie. I'll have to explain to them that ?LiveCode tries its hardest to make something into a number if there is any chance at all that it could be a number, so we have to do an extra check to make sure it?s not this specific type of numeric expression that happens to end with a dot.? :-/ Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 17:19:51 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:19:51 -0400 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <561EBE1F.1010001@hyperactivesw.com> References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> <5E62FF0B-DAB2-4A88-A504-15F68E35BF43@hyperactivesw.com> <561EBE1F.1010001@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Ah, okay, I do none of that. gc On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 4:42 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/14/2015 1:54 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> Interesting -- does/did GLX remove the update messages the IDE sends? >> > > I don't know but I doubt it. The problem in my case was that Zygodact's > Registration dialog needs to store info in a prefs stack, and is intended > to be opened before the mainstack is displayed. My method was to open the > prefs stack, store the info, and remove it on the assumption that Zygodact > should not interfere with the developer's instructions about whether the > prefs should be in RAM or not. If their script opens a prefs file later, no > problem. If not, prefs won't hang around. > > GLX has startup handlers that also work with prefs, and GLX leaves the > stack open. When Zygodact closed it soon afterward, GLX errored. > > There were two ways to solve it. GLX could have checked the openstacks and > reopened it if necessary, or Zygodact could have just left the file open. > It was easier for me to leave it open, which hasn't seemed to interfere > really with anything else the developer did with it except that there's a > possibly unwanted stack in RAM. > > But the point is, there was interference that required me to know what > another tool (or framework in this case) was doing. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Oct 14 18:27:15 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (Craig Newman) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:27:15 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: References: <561B31D6.4070100@hyperactivesw.com> <1505c42f9e6-4ecb-79e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <0971FA8E-23C2-45A7-9E3A-E4D8F3839E29@aol.com> Hi. The param "3" would be added to the list. The sorted list would be: "2,3,4". When the itemOffset finds the "3", the item just before it would be "2". That is how it works. To find the item just before itemOffset does. This is faster than any of the "repeat for each..." variants I have seen here. The reason, as I stated earlier as an uninformed opinion, is that the low-level "sort" routine beats the high-level "repeat" routine. Craig Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 14, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 6:35 AM, wrote: >> >> My gadget adds the index in a parameter to the function. if it already >> exists in the list, the addition is superfluous, but harmless. > > But if the search list is "2, 4", and the search value is 3, doesn't this > return "3" rather than 2? > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 14 19:05:43 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:05:43 -0700 Subject: LC8 lineOffset Message-ID: Has anyone run into problems using lineOffset in LC8? I'm seeing it return an incorrect line number in some cases. I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the data I'm searching, since some lines have the characters \n embedded in them Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From userev at canelasoftware.com Wed Oct 14 19:28:18 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:28:18 -0700 Subject: LC8 lineOffset In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C26B1E6-10F1-491C-82BD-ADC32BE6B65B@canelasoftware.com> > On Oct 14, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Has anyone run into problems using lineOffset in LC8? I'm seeing it return > an incorrect line number in some cases. > > I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the data I'm searching, > since some lines have the characters \n embedded in them > It may be related to bug: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15512 Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for LiveCode developers: livecloud.io From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Oct 14 20:30:35 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:30:35 +1000 Subject: LC8 lineOffset In-Reply-To: <2C26B1E6-10F1-491C-82BD-ADC32BE6B65B@canelasoftware.com> References: , <2C26B1E6-10F1-491C-82BD-ADC32BE6B65B@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: A704A704-86E9-430B-A561-10CFA36BFF37.goodhumans@emailganizer.goodhumans.com Do either of you have a sample stack you can send me that exhibits this problem? I went to look at this a while back, but couldn't replicate it and there wasn't a sample stack in the bug report for me to try. -- Sent from my iPhone On 15 Oct 2015 at 09:28:18 AEST, Mark Talluto wrote: > > On Oct 14, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > Has anyone run into problems using lineOffset in LC8? I'm seeing it return > > an incorrect line number in some cases. > > > > I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the data I'm searching, > > since some lines have the characters \n embedded in them > > > > > It may be related to bug: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15512 > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > canelasoftware.com > CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for LiveCode developers: livecloud.io > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 14 20:58:23 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:58:23 -0700 Subject: LC8 lineOffset In-Reply-To: <2C26B1E6-10F1-491C-82BD-ADC32BE6B65B@canelasoftware.com> References: <2C26B1E6-10F1-491C-82BD-ADC32BE6B65B@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mark, I think it's the same bug, except on OSX. I'm using the linestoskip parameter of lineOffset as you were. I'm using lineOffset in a loop to return lines between a start and end line number. I've worked around the problem by deleting the lines after I've finished using them, so the start line number is always 1. For some reason it manages to get the correct offset for the end line number that way. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > > On Oct 14, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > Has anyone run into problems using lineOffset in LC8? I'm seeing it > return > > an incorrect line number in some cases. > > > > I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the data I'm > searching, > > since some lines have the characters \n embedded in them > > > > > It may be related to bug: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15512 > > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > canelasoftware.com > CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for > LiveCode developers: livecloud.io > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 14 20:59:30 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:59:30 -0700 Subject: LC8 lineOffset In-Reply-To: <561ef3c5.a93ac20a.e9c44.ffffaa03SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> References: <2C26B1E6-10F1-491C-82BD-ADC32BE6B65B@canelasoftware.com> <561ef3c5.a93ac20a.e9c44.ffffaa03SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I'd have to recreate the issue since I'm not using the workaround I just posted. But Mark posted several stacks that illustrate the problem to the bug report. Pete Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > > Do either of you have a sample stack you can send me that exhibits this > problem? > > I went to look at this a while back, but couldn't replicate it and there > wasn't a sample stack in the bug report for me to try. > > > -- > Sent from my iPhone > > On 15 Oct 2015 at 09:28:18 AEST, Mark Talluto > wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > > > Has anyone run into problems using lineOffset in LC8? I'm seeing it > return > > > an incorrect line number in some cases. > > > > > > I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the data I'm > searching, > > > since some lines have the characters \n embedded in them > > > > > > > > > It may be related to bug: > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15512 < > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15512> > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Mark Talluto > > canelasoftware.com > > CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for > LiveCode developers: livecloud.io > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Oct 14 21:07:54 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:07:54 +1000 Subject: LC8 lineOffset In-Reply-To: References: , <2C26B1E6-10F1-491C-82BD-ADC32BE6B65B@canelasoftware.com>, <561ef3c5.a93ac20a.e9c44.ffffaa03SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: 7DAAD354-C3A4-43BE-AA6F-BC7772A1DE2D.goodhumans@emailganizer.goodhumans.com I can't see a sample stack in the bug report (unless I'm reading it wrong). There are some additional attachments but it looks like the actual sample stack was emailed direct to LC. -- Sent from my iPhone On 15 Oct 2015 at 10:59:30 AEST, Peter Haworth wrote: > I'd have to recreate the issue since I'm not using the workaround I just > posted. But Mark posted several stacks that illustrate the problem to the > bug report. > Pete > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Charles Warwick < > charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > > > > > Do either of you have a sample stack you can send me that exhibits this > > problem? > > > > I went to look at this a while back, but couldn't replicate it and there > > wasn't a sample stack in the bug report for me to try. > > > > > > -- > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 15 Oct 2015 at 09:28:18 AEST, Mark Talluto > > wrote: > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > > > > > Has anyone run into problems using lineOffset in LC8? I'm seeing it > > return > > > > an incorrect line number in some cases. > > > > > > > > I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the data I'm > > searching, > > > > since some lines have the characters \n embedded in them > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be related to bug: > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15512 < > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15512> > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Mark Talluto > > > canelasoftware.com > > > CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for > > LiveCode developers: livecloud.io > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 21:08:49 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:08:49 -0700 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <8E407D98-28DA-472F-931A-8E99FCFA7A66@byu.edu> References: <561EBD72.80903@researchware.com> <8E407D98-28DA-472F-931A-8E99FCFA7A66@byu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > I'll have to explain to them that ?LiveCode tries its hardest to make > something into a number if there is any chance at all that it could be a > number, so we have to do an extra check to make sure it?s not this specific > type of numeric expression that happens to end with a dot.? Now if you can find a way to coerce logicals to number with intrinsics, I'll be *real* interested . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 21:12:26 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:12:26 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> References: <561D7F43.6090101@knappstersolutions.com> <561D87EE.7000607@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Can we have the scalingFactor available for the contents of groups? > > That's probably the biggest single thing I cold wish for right now. I'd even call it a critical need . . . I have scaling sort of working. Not quite as well from drag-resizing, but I have cmd-plus & -minus doing resizing--but I haven't been able to figure out the math, so it does on walkabout as I hit these. As far as retrofitting to the older language, as someone (Richard?) mentioned, it could be done by set the groupTop of field myField to 100 and so forth. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From iowahengst at mac.com Wed Oct 14 21:37:18 2015 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:37:18 -0500 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <8E407D98-28DA-472F-931A-8E99FCFA7A66@byu.edu> References: <561EBD72.80903@researchware.com> <8E407D98-28DA-472F-931A-8E99FCFA7A66@byu.edu> Message-ID: <75C6C838-C3AE-4359-A6E1-E9AC906248CC@mac.com> Rather than write the IF statement with AND NOT I?ve just written separate IF statements? first, check the field for the ?.? first? then in a separate ?if? statement check the rest of your math? that seems pretty easy for a novice to understand. It also provided a way to show that when the if statement wasn?t met, nothing happened? I?d even write it like this: if char -1 of field "display" = "." then delete char -1 of field "display" else -- do nothing end if be well, randy Randy Hengst www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > On Oct 14, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > >> On Oct 14, 2015, at 2:39 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: >> >> if fld "Display" contains "." then >> >> of if you're just concerned with it ending with "." >> >> if fld "Display ends with ".? then > > Yeah, that works, but then I end up with a mess like this: > > if fld ?display? = 0 AND NOT fld ?display? ends with ?.? then ? > > But this may be what I have to go with. That?s at least *sort of* comprehensible to a newbie. > > I'll have to explain to them that ?LiveCode tries its hardest to make something into a number if there is any chance at all that it could be a number, so we have to do an extra check to make sure it?s not this specific type of numeric expression that happens to end with a dot.? > :-/ > > Devin > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Thu Oct 15 01:27:34 2015 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 07:27:34 +0200 Subject: Export snapshot and native controls Message-ID: Hello, Livecode 6.77 When i create a snapshot with this script : export snapshot from rectangle theRect of this cd to file? I?ve the correct snapshot but all natives controls are gone ! And if i use this script : export snapshot from rectangle theRect to file? I?ve only the natives controls on a black background? Any ideas ? Thanks From userev at canelasoftware.com Thu Oct 15 02:08:18 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 23:08:18 -0700 Subject: LC8 lineOffset In-Reply-To: References: <2C26B1E6-10F1-491C-82BD-ADC32BE6B65B@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 14, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Thanks Mark, I think it's the same bug, except on OSX. I'm using the > linestoskip parameter of lineOffset as you were. I'm using lineOffset in a > loop to return lines between a start and end line number. I've worked > around the problem by deleting the lines after I've finished using them, so > the start line number is always 1. For some reason it manages to get the > correct offset for the end line number that way. Hey Pete, That is the problem right there. I was able to recreate our issue on a Mac as well. Hans works on a Windows system right now and reported the issue there. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for LiveCode developers: livecloud.io From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 15 03:18:05 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:18:05 -0700 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561F532D.4050703@fourthworld.com> Dr. Hawkins wrote: > As far as retrofitting to the older language, as someone (Richard?) > mentioned, it could be done by > > set the groupTop of field myField to 100 > > and so forth. I don't think that one's mine, but similar ideas have been floating around for a while for making positioning within groups simpler. I like the xOrigin and yOrigin in HTML's Canvas, and maybe something even simpler for LC groups might be a local property in the script along the lines of "the useGroupCoordinates" (maybe abbreviated "useGrpCoords"), e.g." set the useGrpCoords to the long id of grp "SomeParentGroup" set the rect of btn "ChildBtn" to 10,10,110,30 The result there would set the rect of the button "ChildBtn" relative to both the rect and scroll of the specified group. Not married to the suggested token, but something like it might be a useful way of simplifying positioning within groups. If scaling within groups were available, all scaling would be independent of our scripting. That is, the script above would render appropriately whether the scale is 1, 0.5, or 2, so scripting works in factor 1 sizes while rendering accounts for the scale. If we need to know the actual rects of objects within scaled groups, "the effective rect" would give us that info. Scripts stay simple to write, coordinates obtainable either translated for scale or not with minimal effort. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 04:38:49 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:38:49 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <561F532D.4050703@fourthworld.com> References: <561F532D.4050703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-15 09:18, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Scripts stay simple to write, coordinates obtainable either translated > for scale or not with minimal effort. This is all well and good - however the part you haven't addressed is what about co-ordinates that 'come into' the engine. e.g. mouseMove has pX, pY as parameters - what co-ordinate system are they in? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 15 05:08:41 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 20:08:41 +1100 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <561F532D.4050703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1F40258F-3059-45AD-B435-2B71757615D3@sweattechnologies.com> Hmm... Even with the view object you would have an issue there. Inside the view they would be relative to the topleft of the view and in the coordinate system of the stack. If the message is passed it then becomes arguable whether the message hierarchy includes the stack the view is in and whether the parameters are altered to match the parent window (or maybe even parent view) coordinate system. Can of worms... Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Oct 2015, at 7:38 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > This is all well and good - however the part you haven't addressed is what about co-ordinates that 'come into' the engine. > e.g. mouseMove has pX, pY as parameters - what co-ordinate system are they in? From effendi at wanadoo.fr Thu Oct 15 05:56:48 2015 From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:56:48 +0200 Subject: From any button script, how can I reset the scrollbar of a field to the "top" ? Message-ID: <72F12C2B-2439-4C13-8563-10D904CEC3C8@wanadoo.fr> Hi from Beautiful Brittany, > The scrolled amount of a field is defined by the vscroll (vertical) and > hscroll (horizontal) properties, so to set the scrollbar back to the top, > do this: > > set the vscroll of field "myField" to 0 Thanks David ! I tried everything I knew, but have never used scrolling commands before, and I obviously didn't know vScroll and hScroll existed. -Francis "Nothing should ever be done for the first time !" From gbojsza at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 10:31:08 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:31:08 -0400 Subject: iPad File structure question Message-ID: Hello, I am working on an iPad app and have two SQLite databases that I want to be stored in the contents of the app itself and not placed in the documents folder. I am using LC 8. Q. Under Standalone Application Settings all options are "grayed" out so I can't select Script Libraries for database and Database Support for SQLite? Is this not currently supported in LC 8 DP4? Q: how do you access the SQLite database when it is stored in the contents of the application? Is there a special path? I show the package contents of the iPad application and see the Folder Quiz which contains the SQLite db. thanks, Glen From hh at livecode.org Thu Oct 15 10:45:20 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:45:20 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness Message-ID: The scalefactor problem -- I reported this already months ago, in vain. Currently LC uses the scalefactor as if the physical device has changed accordingly. It scales(nearly) everything, and especially global coordinates. That's why windows walk out to offscreen if you use a scalefactor > 1 and are still staring at the same monitor. Nothing bad about that, because > "Use the scaleFactor property when developing to scale down stacks that > are larger than the available screen space." What some of us wish is to use the scalefactor also for rendering (like PDF etc.). For this a second kind of scalefactor is necessary. No way out of this. ** My proposal is to set a new property for all objects: the scalefactor ** The scalefactor of the stack remains the old one and may or may not used by its objects: This scalefactor will be inherited (what obviously solves the group-problem). The scalefactor of a button is then the product of the scalefactors of all the owners along the owner path. That is, for example; The scalefactor SF of a button in a (non-background-) group on a card is then SF(stack) * SF(card) * SF(group) * SF(button). Of course, the scalefactor of an object has the default value one. The scalefactor of a stack is the only one that changes global coords. All others have only impact on local coords. For some few objects on a special stack I used this already by custom properties (that is the math for all coords is to be computed, without difficulties, but its not native). It's really simple, isn't it? And it works ... From hh at livecode.org Thu Oct 15 10:55:17 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:55:17 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness Message-ID: > The scalefactor SF of a button in a (non-background-) group on a card is then > SF(stack) * SF(card) * SF(group) * SF(button). Should read: The 'total' scalefactor TSF of a button in a (non-background-) group on a card is then TSF = SF(stack) * SF(card) * SF(group) * SF(button). From sebastien.nouat at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 10:58:15 2015 From: sebastien.nouat at livecode.com (Sebastien Nouat) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:58:15 +0100 Subject: Release: 6.7.8 RC 1 / 7.1.1 RC 1 Message-ID: <561FBF07.9080706@livecode.com> Dear List Members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.8 RC 1 and 7.1.1 RC 1. *Release Contents * This release has been delayed due to issues with iOS 9.0 and Xcode 7.0, but on the other side, we can announce that: - 51 bugs are fixed in LiveCode 6.7.8 RC 1 - 24 bugs are fixed in LiveCode 7.1.1 RC 1 (in addition to the 51 bugs fixed in 6.7.8 RC 1, which are also fixed in 7.1.1 RC 1). 7.1.1 RC 1 includes string and single-byte operation improvement (the same as the one that have been introduced in LiveCode 8.0.0 DP 7). This release also allows you to select Xcode 7.0 in the Preferences > Mobile Support pane, and thus allowing users to deploy on iOS 9.0 simulator. *Known Issues with Xcode 7.0 and iOS ***9.0 *simulator ** The first time an iOS application is saved as a standalone with LiveCode 6.7.8 RC 1, and error might occur at the linking step. This only occurs once, and does not replicate at a second saving. * When deploying on iOS simulator 9.0, if the dialog 'The simulator seems to take a long time to launch the application. Do you wish to continue trying?' appears, and 'No' is clicked, then LiveCode crashes (or hangs). This is due to a bug in Xcode 7.0, and we are currently working on finding a workaround. Getting the Release To get the release please download the installer directly at: http://downloads.livecode.com *6.7.8 RC 2 / 7.1.0 RC 2* The next RC build is planned to be released next week. If you reported a bug in BugZilla, you can check whether it will be fixed by having a look at its status. Bugs reported against LiveCode 6.7 or LiveCode 7.x will be fixed in the next release, if the status is AWAITING_BUILD. You can also follow our release schedule, and bug fixing patches, on our GitHub repository . Warm regards, The LiveCode Team From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 11:35:34 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:35:34 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2015-10-15 16:45, hh wrote: > The scalefactor SF of a button in a (non-background-) group on a card > is then > > SF(stack) * SF(card) * SF(group) * SF(button). The problem I am concerned about is actually the differing co-ordinate systems at each level here and how that affects script - this proposal is identical to anything which offers the ability to set a transform on any object and so still suffers from it. > It's really simple, isn't it? And it works ... Of course, posed as you have, it has made me realize that there is a potentially feasible option right now. We already have the 'fullScreenMode' property - which controls the transform from 'card-space' to 'window-space'. This acts on the entire content of the card and thus doesn't have a problem with any translation of co-ordinate systems (as they don't change within the card). What we didn't do was add the option of controlling this mapping directly and have the result displayed in a window. This could be done by adding a property which specifies the region of the card rect you want stretched to fill the window. So if your stack is 400x400 and you want to display the middle portion (100,100,300,300); then you'd set something like: set the visibleRect of stack ... to "100,100,300,300" This would scale and translate the 200x200 middle rectangle to fill the entire window. The reason this is unaffected by my concerns about the action of script in such an environment is that script actions are contained entirely within the stack and objects within it. The co-ordinate transform boundary happens between the OS and the window essentially - which is at the globalLoc / localLoc level - the thing that changes is the mapping between what script considers to be 'card-relative' (local) and 'screen-relative' (global). Script already has to take this into account, as does the engine (which it does, otherwise fullScreenMode wouldn't work). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Oct 15 11:50:52 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 08:50:52 -0700 Subject: Export snapshot and native controls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9076E544-2E6B-4EC1-91D0-3DB9238808A2@earthednet.org> Ludevic, I found that it's better to put the area you want to take a snapshot of, in a group and take the snapshot of the group. Leave out any rect. This way LC doesn't use the screen buffer to get the image data, which avoids some problems on some pc's. I'm not at my office, but can supply example code f you need it. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Oct 14, 2015, at 10:27 PM, Ludovic THEBAULT wrote: > > Hello, > > Livecode 6.77 > > When i create a snapshot with this script : > > export snapshot from rectangle theRect of this cd to file? > > I?ve the correct snapshot but all natives controls are gone ! > > And if i use this script : > > export snapshot from rectangle theRect to file? > > I?ve only the natives controls on a black background? > > Any ideas ? > > Thanks > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Thu Oct 15 11:55:25 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 08:55:25 -0700 Subject: Export snapshot and native controls In-Reply-To: <9076E544-2E6B-4EC1-91D0-3DB9238808A2@earthednet.org> References: <9076E544-2E6B-4EC1-91D0-3DB9238808A2@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <2B9F4226-E2FA-4248-B4E2-837A7EFB024F@livecode.org> Bill is spot on, try? export snapshot from this cd to file tFile as JPEG Paul > On 15 Oct 2015, at 08:50, Earthednet-wp wrote: > > Ludevic, > > I found that it's better to put the area you want to take a snapshot of, in a group and take the snapshot of the group. Leave out any rect. This way LC doesn't use the screen buffer to get the image data, which avoids some problems on some pc's. > > I'm not at my office, but can supply example code f you need it. > Bill > > William Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org > >> On Oct 14, 2015, at 10:27 PM, Ludovic THEBAULT wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Livecode 6.77 >> >> When i create a snapshot with this script : >> >> export snapshot from rectangle theRect of this cd to file? >> >> I?ve the correct snapshot but all natives controls are gone ! >> >> And if i use this script : >> >> export snapshot from rectangle theRect to file? >> >> I?ve only the natives controls on a black background? >> >> Any ideas ? >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Oct 15 12:31:35 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:31:35 -0400 Subject: iPad File structure question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601d10766$f5dfab70$e19f0250$@net> Mobile app's files specified in the "copy files" pane of the standalone settings are accessed via "the engine folder" path. You can't open SQLite DBs in "the engine folder" because "the engine folder" is read-only. There is no facility to open a SQLite db read-only. Option 1:Copy the db from "the engine folder" to "the documents folder" and open it there. On iOS make sure you mark any large files in the documents folder as "no backup" to make it through the review process. Option 2: Copy the db from "the engine folder" to "specialFolderPath("cache")" and open it there. The user can clear the cache so check at each startup to make sure the db is still in the "specialFolderPath("cache")" folder. There is no size limitation(within reason) for the cache on iOS as it is not backed up to the cloud. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Glen Bojsza Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 10:31 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: iPad File structure question Hello, I am working on an iPad app and have two SQLite databases that I want to be stored in the contents of the app itself and not placed in the documents folder. I am using LC 8. Q. Under Standalone Application Settings all options are "grayed" out so I can't select Script Libraries for database and Database Support for SQLite? Is this not currently supported in LC 8 DP4? Q: how do you access the SQLite database when it is stored in the contents of the application? Is there a special path? I show the package contents of the iPad application and see the Folder Quiz which contains the SQLite db. thanks, Glen _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Thu Oct 15 12:35:59 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:35:59 +0200 Subject: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 Message-ID: <005d01d10767$94b59890$be20c9b0$@kestner.de> Hello, OSX 10.9.5. Because of video file compatibility I still want to use QT in 6.7.6. In preopenstack I set: set the dontuseQT to false put the qtVersion into tTest In IDE: start player "myplayer" -- nothing happens. The player runs (I get the playStopped status after the video is finished), but doesn't shows any video. Doing "set the dontuseQT to false" multiple times again, changes nothing. When closing the stack, removing from memory and reloading the same stack a second time, everything works fine like before in LC 6.5.2, the videos are played fine. So it seems, it has something to do with loading and providing QT. The first opening of my stack seems to load QT, but doesn't provides it to my stack. When opening the stack a second time, it now catches the properly loaded QT. In a standalone the videos are not played anymore at all. Does anybody got QT to run under 6.7.6? Any ideas, what else I could do? Thanks for any hints Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 12:40:35 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:40:35 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <1F40258F-3059-45AD-B435-2B71757615D3@sweattechnologies.com> References: <561F532D.4050703@fourthworld.com> <1F40258F-3059-45AD-B435-2B71757615D3@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-15 11:08, Monte Goulding wrote: > Hmm... Even with the view object you would have an issue there. Inside > the view they would be relative to the topleft of the view and in the > coordinate system of the stack. If the message is passed it then > becomes arguable whether the message hierarchy includes the stack the > view is in and whether the parameters are altered to match the parent > window (or maybe even parent view) coordinate system. Well the solution there is that the hosted stack's message path is *not* integrated into that of the host stack - the problem then goes away :) Instead, think of a stackview control as creating a transformed space within a stack which is filled by another stack. It is a purely visual thing rather than structural. Stacks can still communicate in all sorts of ways - for example, you could have substacks embedded in the mainstack so the messages flow in the current way you'd expect; or you could use a library which enables communication. Also, there's also the option to add syntax allow a stack to send messages to its 'host' - whatever that might be. (This idea of 'host' isn't unique to the idea of stackview - exactly the same idea is present when you think about embedding a stack in a web-page in the HTML5 engine). > Can of worms... Only if you choose a worm-filled can ;) Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From gbojsza at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 12:57:47 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:57:47 -0400 Subject: iPad File structure question In-Reply-To: <003601d10766$f5dfab70$e19f0250$@net> References: <003601d10766$f5dfab70$e19f0250$@net> Message-ID: This must be how a lot of the other apps are doing it since I have seen their SQLite files in their app contents. I am only doing read only and was hoping that this be fine but your suggestions are well taken. What is the syntax for copying the file from the engine's folder? Also any idea why I can't select Script Libraries for database and Database Support for SQLite? Glen On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Mobile app's files specified in the "copy files" pane of the standalone > settings are accessed via "the engine folder" path. You can't open SQLite > DBs in "the engine folder" because "the engine folder" is read-only. There > is no facility to open a SQLite db read-only. Option 1:Copy the db from > "the > engine folder" to "the documents folder" and open it there. On iOS make > sure > you mark any large files in the documents folder as "no backup" to make it > through the review process. Option 2: Copy the db from "the engine folder" > to "specialFolderPath("cache")" and open it there. The user can clear the > cache so check at each startup to make sure the db is still in the > "specialFolderPath("cache")" folder. There is no size limitation(within > reason) for the cache on iOS as it is not backed up to the cloud. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 13:00:51 2015 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 20:00:51 +0300 Subject: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 In-Reply-To: <005d01d10767$94b59890$be20c9b0$@kestner.de> References: <005d01d10767$94b59890$be20c9b0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Hi Tiemo, What happens if you do: on preopenstack put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename set the filename of player "myPlayer" to empty set the dontuseQT to false set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename [...] end preopenstack Best regards, Panos -- On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > OSX 10.9.5. Because of video file compatibility I still want to use QT in > 6.7.6. In preopenstack I set: > > set the dontuseQT to false > > put the qtVersion into tTest > > In IDE: start player "myplayer" -- nothing happens. The player runs (I get > the playStopped status after the video is finished), but doesn't shows any > video. Doing "set the dontuseQT to false" multiple times again, changes > nothing. > > When closing the stack, removing from memory and reloading the same stack a > second time, everything works fine like before in LC 6.5.2, the videos are > played fine. So it seems, it has something to do with loading and providing > QT. The first opening of my stack seems to load QT, but doesn't provides it > to my stack. When opening the stack a second time, it now catches the > properly loaded QT. > > In a standalone the videos are not played anymore at all. > > Does anybody got QT to run under 6.7.6? Any ideas, what else I could do? > > Thanks for any hints > > Tiemo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 13:07:07 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 19:07:07 +0200 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not =?UTF-8?Q?=30=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> On 2015-10-14 22:19, Devin Asay wrote: > Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries > to be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I > want to know if it?s the exact string? I think this is one of those things which has come up periodically over the years... We added 'is really a' operators in LC8 to help with writing code which needs to preserve values exactly (the main use-case is lcVCS) - so we have been considering an 'is really' operator. (It occurs to me this morning that perhaps these should be 'x really is a string', or 'x really is y' as opposed to 'x is really a string', or 'x is really y' - I'm not sure which is 'more correct' in English) The 'is really a' operators check the internal (dynamic type) of the value, by-passing any type-coercion: 'x is really a string' -> returns true if the current value of x is (internally) a string 'x is a string' -> returns true if x can be converted to a string So, the 'is really' operator would do much the same thing: 'x is really y' -> returns true if the internal types of x and y are the same, and they are the same value 'x is y' -> if x and y can be converted to numbers then compare as numbers else compare as strings The problem with 'is really' is that to truly understand what it is doing, you have to explain about whilst LiveCode is a 'typeless' language (assuming you ignore the existence of arrays ;)), the engine still has a notion of distinct types internally (it needs to store the values in memory in some chosen representation after all) and the internal type of a value depends on how the value was last produced: put "0" + 0 into tVar1 -- tVar is really a number put "0" & 0 into tVar2 -- tVar is really a string put tVar1 is really tVar2 -- false The other option (which has the potential advantage of not exposing the 7.0+ under-the-hood dynamically typed nature) is to have an explicit 'compare as string' operator (for purposes of exposition let's call it is_string) for now. The action of such an operator would be to convert both sides to strings (if possible) and then compare: put "0" is_string "0." -- false put 0+0 is_string char 1 of "0." -- true This is subtly different from is really: put 0 + 1 is really "1" -- false put 0 + 1 is_string "1" -- true Indeed, if we imagined that we had 'as ' operators then: x is_string y <=> (x as string) is really (y as string) So, anyway, a couple of potential solutions (I think 'is really' is a useful compliment to the 'is really a' operators, the question is whether there is a nice syntax for is_string and whether it is a useful thing to have). Warmest Regards, Mark. > I guess I could do this dance: > > if char 1 of fld ?display? is ?0? and char 2 of fld ?display? is NOT > ?0? then? > > It?s seems to complicated for such a simple thing, especially for > explaining to novice programmers. Maybe I?m missing something obvious. > > Devin > > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 13:11:57 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:11:57 -0700 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > We added 'is really a' operators in LC8 to help with writing code which > needs to preserve values exactly (the main use-case is lcVCS) - so we have > been considering an 'is really' operator. > Soon to be accompanied by the 'damnit, I mean it!' command . . . :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 15 13:16:29 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:16:29 -0400 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: We have to be able to do better than "is really a". If anything, "could be a" and "is a" would be more helpful, where "is a" tells us what is going on under the hood and "could be a" lets us know what we can do with the container. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Mark Waddingham > wrote: > > > We added 'is really a' operators in LC8 to help with writing code which > > needs to preserve values exactly (the main use-case is lcVCS) - so we > have > > been considering an 'is really' operator. > > > > Soon to be accompanied by the 'damnit, I mean it!' command . . . > > :) > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Oct 15 13:17:44 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:17:44 -0400 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1506c81e7fe-2a88-bba3@webprd-m46.mail.aol.com> See a feature request I made in the forums. Whichever is the best/easiest/most robust is up for grabs. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Mark Waddingham To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2015 1:08 pm Subject: Re: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? On 2015-10-14 22:19, Devin Asay wrote: > Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries > to be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I > want to know if it?s the exact string? I think this is one of those things which has come up periodically over the years... We added 'is really a' operators in LC8 to help with writing code which needs to preserve values exactly (the main use-case is lcVCS) - so we have been considering an 'is really' operator. (It occurs to me this morning that perhaps these should be 'x really is a string', or 'x really is y' as opposed to 'x is really a string', or 'x is really y' - I'm not sure which is 'more correct' in English) The 'is really a' operators check the internal (dynamic type) of the value, by-passing any type-coercion: 'x is really a string' -> returns true if the current value of x is (internally) a string 'x is a string' -> returns true if x can be converted to a string So, the 'is really' operator would do much the same thing: 'x is really y' -> returns true if the internal types of x and y are the same, and they are the same value 'x is y' -> if x and y can be converted to numbers then compare as numbers else compare as strings The problem with 'is really' is that to truly understand what it is doing, you have to explain about whilst LiveCode is a 'typeless' language (assuming you ignore the existence of arrays ;)), the engine still has a notion of distinct types internally (it needs to store the values in memory in some chosen representation after all) and the internal type of a value depends on how the value was last produced: put "0" + 0 into tVar1 -- tVar is really a number put "0" & 0 into tVar2 -- tVar is really a string put tVar1 is really tVar2 -- false The other option (which has the potential advantage of not exposing the 7.0+ under-the-hood dynamically typed nature) is to have an explicit 'compare as string' operator (for purposes of exposition let's call it is_string) for now. The action of such an operator would be to convert both sides to strings (if possible) and then compare: put "0" is_string "0." -- false put 0+0 is_string char 1 of "0." -- true This is subtly different from is really: put 0 + 1 is really "1" -- false put 0 + 1 is_string "1" -- true Indeed, if we imagined that we had 'as ' operators then: x is_string y <=> (x as string) is really (y as string) So, anyway, a couple of potential solutions (I think 'is really' is a useful compliment to the 'is really a' operators, the question is whether there is a nice syntax for is_string and whether it is a useful thing to have). Warmest Regards, Mark. > I guess I could do this dance: > > if char 1 of fld ?display? is ?0? and char 2 of fld ?display? is NOT > ?0? then? > > It?s seems to complicated for such a simple thing, especially for > explaining to novice programmers. Maybe I?m missing something obvious. > > Devin > > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 13:19:01 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:19:01 +0100 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: <00681DCA-D567-4408-BF26-42293D9C061E@livecode.com> Definitely not before we add ain't... If x ain't y then darnit ;) Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Oct 2015, at 18:11, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> We added 'is really a' operators in LC8 to help with writing code which >> needs to preserve values exactly (the main use-case is lcVCS) - so we have >> been considering an 'is really' operator. > > Soon to be accompanied by the 'damnit, I mean it!' command . . . > > :) > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 13:19:45 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:19:45 +0100 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: <82C0E797-2A00-4DCB-A74D-482E46E996A1@livecode.com> Unfortunately we already had 'is a' :( Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Oct 2015, at 18:16, Mike Kerner wrote: > > We have to be able to do better than "is really a". If anything, "could be > a" and "is a" would be more helpful, where "is a" tells us what is going on > under the hood and "could be a" lets us know what we can do with the > container. > >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Mark Waddingham >> wrote: >> >>> We added 'is really a' operators in LC8 to help with writing code which >>> needs to preserve values exactly (the main use-case is lcVCS) - so we >> have >>> been considering an 'is really' operator. >> >> Soon to be accompanied by the 'damnit, I mean it!' command . . . >> >> :) >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >> (702) 508-8462 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 15 13:24:26 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:24:26 -0700 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: I'm not following all the nuances of this, but it seems you have laid the groundwork for a new operator: is useful if theVar is useful then... Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > So, anyway, a couple of potential solutions (I think 'is really' is a useful compliment to the 'is really a' operators, the question is whether there is a nice syntax for is_string and whether it is a useful thing to have). From hh at livecode.org Thu Oct 15 13:42:33 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 19:42:33 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness Message-ID: <33F00957-D57E-4E4E-B282-0C084BEF8CC3@livecode.org> @Mark > this proposal is identical to anything which offers the ability to set > a transform on any object and so still suffers from it. Not really, if you mean affine transform. Translation destroys the wonderful commutativity you have with my proposal: If you interchange objects in the owner path/message path before a target then this has no effect on the total scalefactor of this target. And you know the "inverse" operation as a function! Beside the usual rounding effects I can see no problem with that at the moment. But I see your (good) arguments related to stack's scalefactor. Mine are to see it hierarchically in the top level: The stack (and it's view) is the global object and handles with the OS and the hardware (you have a lot of pretty things already realized for us). Everything in the stack is in local coords. The mouseLoc etc. is scaled by TSF(mouse) = SF(stack)*SF(card)*SF(mouse). We don't have to care about such things, you do in the engine. And it is scripter's problem to ask for the total scalefactor ('TSF') of objects. For example one may set SF(mouse)=1/SF(stack)/SF(card) to have TSF(mouse)=1, the usual unscaled local coords (which are then correct physical coords, relative to physical coords of the topleft of the window). > We already have the 'fullScreenMode' property - which controls the > transform from 'card-space' to 'window-space'. This is for me still the card space, everything on the card has its old coordinates now multiplied by a different SF(stack) and is clipped to the screenrect. > So if your stack is 400x400 and you want to display the middle portion > (100,100,300,300); then you'd set something like: > set the visibleRect of stack ... to "100,100,300,300" > This would scale and translate the 200x200 middle rectangle to fill the > entire window. This is for me a change of the card's scalefactor with an unchanged stack's scalefactor: For each and every object TSF(object) = SF(stack)*SF(card)*SF(object) has changed its second factor. This means, in that situation of a window that clips the stack, you could once again zoom in/out by simply changing the card's scalefactor (and clipping) and leaving the topleft of the clipping window pinned to screen. No need to change global coords. This example could be essentially a starting point for the discussion. One stays on the same hardware, leaves SF(stack) unchanged. Then changing SF(card) would leave the topleft of stack's window unchanged and scale everything on the card (incl. mouseLoc). [Additionally changing the width and height of stack's view or clipping to another/the old size could be an option.] If I'm right, has every object beside (sub-)stacks currently the owner "card", so that the owner paths of a mainstack seem to lead uniquely to: TSF(stack) = SF(stack) TSF(card) = SF(stack)*SF(card) TSF(object) = SF(stack)*SF(card)*SF(object) TMHO, this is isn't more complicated and burden with problems than the handling of a property like "colour". Anyway, thanks and praise to the whole team for some really great (even though partly unfinished) improvements of LC. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 15 14:16:20 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:16:20 -0400 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: yes, I know and it's great, like, what is the other one? "is me"? If we're going to leave "is a" as is, then let's come up with something better than "is really a" On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > I'm not following all the nuances of this, but it seems you have laid the > groundwork for a new operator: is useful > > if theVar is useful then... > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > > > So, anyway, a couple of potential solutions (I think 'is really' is a > useful compliment to the 'is really a' operators, the question is whether > there is a nice syntax for is_string and whether it is a useful thing to > have). > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gbojsza at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 14:24:00 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:24:00 -0400 Subject: iPad File structure question In-Reply-To: References: <003601d10766$f5dfab70$e19f0250$@net> Message-ID: Well I am behind when learning to make an iPad app... the SQLite is also a checkbox in iOS Standalone settings (I see nothing about database libraries so I assume LC 8 handles this in the background) Also, the "engine's folder" may work since I would load the database in memory while the app is running alternatively I can put them in the cache or Documents folder as suggested. Glen On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > This must be how a lot of the other apps are doing it since I have seen > their SQLite files in their app contents. > > I am only doing read only and was hoping that this be fine but your > suggestions are well taken. > > What is the syntax for copying the file from the engine's folder? > > Also any idea why I can't select Script Libraries for database and > Database Support for SQLite? > > > Glen > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Ralph DiMola > wrote: > >> Mobile app's files specified in the "copy files" pane of the standalone >> settings are accessed via "the engine folder" path. You can't open SQLite >> DBs in "the engine folder" because "the engine folder" is read-only. There >> is no facility to open a SQLite db read-only. Option 1:Copy the db from >> "the >> engine folder" to "the documents folder" and open it there. On iOS make >> sure >> you mark any large files in the documents folder as "no backup" to make it >> through the review process. Option 2: Copy the db from "the engine folder" >> to "specialFolderPath("cache")" and open it there. The user can clear the >> cache so check at each startup to make sure the db is still in the >> "specialFolderPath("cache")" folder. There is no size limitation(within >> reason) for the cache on iOS as it is not backed up to the cloud. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Oct 15 14:27:38 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:27:38 -0400 Subject: iPad File structure question In-Reply-To: References: <003601d10766$f5dfab70$e19f0250$@net> Message-ID: <005001d10777$2c310dd0$84932970$@net> First of all I created a function theEngine. This will allow testing in the IDE. function TheEngine local tStackPath switch case the environment = "Mobile" return the engine folder break default put the long name of this stack into tStackPath replace ("stack ""e) with empty in tStackPath put char 1 to -2 in tStackPath into tStackPath set the itemdelimiter to slash put item 1 to -2 of tStackPath into tStackPath return tStackPath end switch end TheEngine Then a function to get destination document paths Function TheDocuments local tStackPath switch case the environment = "Mobile" return the documents folder break default put the long name of this stack into tStackPath replace ("stack ""e) with empty in tStackPath put char 1 to -2 in tStackPath into tStackPath set the itemdelimiter to slash put item 1 to -2 of tStackPath into tStackPath return tStackPath & slash & "MyTestFolder" end switch End TheDocuments MyTestFolder is a folder in the stack folder that will mirror what will be in the documents folder on mobile. Then copy the file... put url ("binfile:"&TheEngine()slash&"Mydb.db") into url ("binfile:"&TheDocuments()) set the no-backup for iOS.... if the platform = "iphone" then iphoneSetDoNotBackupFile TheDocuments()slash&"Mydb.db" , true end if When opening the DB use this as the filename parameter==> TheDocuments()slash&"Mydb.db" This will work in the IDE or Mobile. Disclaimer. I excised this code and there could be a typo But this should get you going. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Glen Bojsza Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 12:58 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: iPad File structure question This must be how a lot of the other apps are doing it since I have seen their SQLite files in their app contents. I am only doing read only and was hoping that this be fine but your suggestions are well taken. What is the syntax for copying the file from the engine's folder? Also any idea why I can't select Script Libraries for database and Database Support for SQLite? Glen On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Mobile app's files specified in the "copy files" pane of the > standalone settings are accessed via "the engine folder" path. You > can't open SQLite DBs in "the engine folder" because "the engine > folder" is read-only. There is no facility to open a SQLite db > read-only. Option 1:Copy the db from "the engine folder" to "the > documents folder" and open it there. On iOS make sure you mark any > large files in the documents folder as "no backup" to make it through > the review process. Option 2: Copy the db from "the engine folder" > to "specialFolderPath("cache")" and open it there. The user can clear > the cache so check at each startup to make sure the db is still in the > "specialFolderPath("cache")" folder. There is no size > limitation(within > reason) for the cache on iOS as it is not backed up to the cloud. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 14:47:40 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:47:40 -0400 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-14 22:19, Devin Asay wrote: > Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries > to be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I > want to know if it?s the exact string? > I think you have come up with the best syntax right there. put 3 is "3" -- true put 3 is "3.0" -- true put 3 is 2.999999999999999 -- true put 3 is exactly "3" -- false put 3 is exactly "3.0" -- false put "3" is exactly "3" -- true put 3 is exactly 3 -- true put 3 is exactly 3.0 -- true put 3 is exactly 2.999999999999999 -- false From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Oct 15 15:35:01 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:35:01 -0400 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: <005101d10780$959b5b50$c0d211f0$@net> I had a thread a month or 2 ago (Compare numeric strings with leading zeros). I needed to make sure that 0123 <> 123 for password validation. There were many good suggestions but I finally wound up with: function stringsAreEqual pString1, pString2 set the caseSensitive to true if (len(pString1) = len(pString2)) and (pString1 = pString2) then return true end if return false end stringsAreEqual Something built in would be better. If "0123" is exactly "123" then... would work for me Now, should "is exactly" respect the caseSensitive property? If not then "exactly" would mean just what is says "EXACTLY". But respecting the caseSensitive property would be more flexible. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 Cell: 518-796-9332 -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Geoff Canyon Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 2:48 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? On 2015-10-14 22:19, Devin Asay wrote: > Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries > to be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I > want to know if it?s the exact string? > I think you have come up with the best syntax right there. put 3 is "3" -- true put 3 is "3.0" -- true put 3 is 2.999999999999999 -- true put 3 is exactly "3" -- false put 3 is exactly "3.0" -- false put "3" is exactly "3" -- true put 3 is exactly 3 -- true put 3 is exactly 3.0 -- true put 3 is exactly 2.999999999999999 -- false _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 15 15:36:49 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:36:49 -0700 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <005101d10780$959b5b50$c0d211f0$@net> References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> <005101d10780$959b5b50$c0d211f0$@net> Message-ID: There is a new operator in LC8, "is really" which may help the string/number comparison issue. See the LC8 dictionary for details. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > I had a thread a month or 2 ago (Compare numeric strings with leading > zeros). I needed to make sure that 0123 <> 123 for password validation. > There were many good suggestions but I finally wound up with: > > function stringsAreEqual pString1, pString2 > set the caseSensitive to true > if (len(pString1) = len(pString2)) and (pString1 = pString2) then > return true > end if > return false > end stringsAreEqual > > Something built in would be better. If "0123" is exactly "123" then... > would work for me > > Now, should "is exactly" respect the caseSensitive property? If not then > "exactly" would mean just what is says "EXACTLY". But respecting the > caseSensitive property would be more flexible. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 > Cell: 518-796-9332 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Geoff Canyon > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 2:48 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? > > On 2015-10-14 22:19, Devin Asay wrote: > > > Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries > > to be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I > > want to know if it?s the exact string? > > > > I think you have come up with the best syntax right there. > > put 3 is "3" -- true > put 3 is "3.0" -- true > put 3 is 2.999999999999999 -- true > > put 3 is exactly "3" -- false > put 3 is exactly "3.0" -- false > put "3" is exactly "3" -- true > put 3 is exactly 3 -- true > put 3 is exactly 3.0 -- true > put 3 is exactly 2.999999999999999 -- false > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Oct 15 15:45:05 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:45:05 -0700 Subject: How to go to a stack without a flash Message-ID: <704627D3-AFF6-45A0-8053-39E0BB2CE853@earthednet.org> Folks: I haver a splash stack and I?m trying to open the app stack in the same rect, without a flash. This should be easy, but I can?t get it to work with what is obvious to me. Here?s my script. on mouseUp put the name of this stack into splashStackName put the filename of this stack into fName set the itemdelimiter to "/" delete the last item of fName put fName&"/Earth Explorer.livecode" into stTarget set the destroyStack of splashStackName to TRUE set the lockscreen to true go invisible cd 1 of stack stTarget set the rect of stack"Earth Explorer" to the rect of stack splashStackName wait for 0 seconds with messages set the visible of stack stTarget to TRUE close stack splashStackName send "initCard" to cd "Opening" of stack "Earth Explorer" set the lockscreen to false end mouseUp What am i doing wrong? Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From martyknappster at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 15:58:32 2015 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:58:32 -0700 Subject: How to go to a stack without a flash In-Reply-To: <704627D3-AFF6-45A0-8053-39E0BB2CE853@earthednet.org> References: <704627D3-AFF6-45A0-8053-39E0BB2CE853@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <56200568.8030909@knappstersolutions.com> Hey Bill, When you go to the app stack you can use the form "go stack stTarget in window (the short name of this stack)" If the size of the stacks are the same it looks pretty seamless. Marty > Folks: > I haver a splash stack and I?m trying to open the app stack in the same rect, without a flash. This should be easy, but I can?t get it to work with what is obvious to me. Here?s my script. > > on mouseUp > put the name of this stack into splashStackName > put the filename of this stack into fName > set the itemdelimiter to "/" > delete the last item of fName > put fName&"/Earth Explorer.livecode" into stTarget > set the destroyStack of splashStackName to TRUE > set the lockscreen to true > go invisible cd 1 of stack stTarget > set the rect of stack"Earth Explorer" to the rect of stack splashStackName > wait for 0 seconds with messages > set the visible of stack stTarget to TRUE > close stack splashStackName > send "initCard" to cd "Opening" of stack "Earth Explorer" > set the lockscreen to false > end mouseUp > > What am i doing wrong? > Bill > > > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 15 16:12:55 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:12:55 -0700 Subject: How to go to a stack without a flash In-Reply-To: <56200568.8030909@knappstersolutions.com> References: <704627D3-AFF6-45A0-8053-39E0BB2CE853@earthednet.org> <56200568.8030909@knappstersolutions.com> Message-ID: Without knowing what's going on in your stacks, it's tough to know for sure, but it's unlikely you're doing anything "wrong". In addition to what Marty suggested, another option is to set the blendLevel of a stack to 100 before making it visible, and the setting (or ramping) the stack's blendLevel to 0. Sometimes it also helps to open at stack at a negative location (off screen) before displaying it, but setting the blendLevel should eliminate any flashing. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/15/15, 12:58 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Marty Knapp" wrote: >Hey Bill, >When you go to the app stack you can use the form "go stack stTarget in >window (the short name of this stack)" If the size of the stacks are the >same it looks pretty seamless. > >Marty >> Folks: >> I haver a splash stack and I?m trying to open the app stack in the same >>rect, without a flash. This should be easy, but I can?t get it to work >>with what is obvious to me. Here?s my script. >> >> on mouseUp >> put the name of this stack into splashStackName >> put the filename of this stack into fName >> set the itemdelimiter to "/" >> delete the last item of fName >> put fName&"/Earth Explorer.livecode" into stTarget >> set the destroyStack of splashStackName to TRUE >> set the lockscreen to true >> go invisible cd 1 of stack stTarget >> set the rect of stack"Earth Explorer" to the rect of stack >>splashStackName >> wait for 0 seconds with messages >> set the visible of stack stTarget to TRUE >> close stack splashStackName >> send "initCard" to cd "Opening" of stack "Earth Explorer" >> set the lockscreen to false >> end mouseUp >> >> What am i doing wrong? >> Bill >> >> >> >> William A. Prothero >> http://es.earthednet.org/ >> > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Oct 15 16:33:07 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:33:07 -0400 Subject: How to go to a stack without a flash In-Reply-To: <704627D3-AFF6-45A0-8053-39E0BB2CE853@earthednet.org> References: <704627D3-AFF6-45A0-8053-39E0BB2CE853@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Have you used any Quicktime transitions that have been left by mistake? On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 3:45 PM, William Prothero wrote: > Folks: > I haver a splash stack and I?m trying to open the app stack in the same > rect, without a flash. This should be easy, but I can?t get it to work with > what is obvious to me. Here?s my script. > > on mouseUp > put the name of this stack into splashStackName > put the filename of this stack into fName > set the itemdelimiter to "/" > delete the last item of fName > put fName&"/Earth Explorer.livecode" into stTarget > set the destroyStack of splashStackName to TRUE > set the lockscreen to true > go invisible cd 1 of stack stTarget > set the rect of stack"Earth Explorer" to the rect of stack > splashStackName > wait for 0 seconds with messages > set the visible of stack stTarget to TRUE > close stack splashStackName > send "initCard" to cd "Opening" of stack "Earth Explorer" > set the lockscreen to false > end mouseUp > > What am i doing wrong? > Bill > > > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu Oct 15 17:17:27 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:17:27 -0400 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> <005101d10780$959b5b50$c0d211f0$@net> Message-ID: <562017E7.7000803@researchware.com> On 10/15/2015 3:36 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > There is a new operator in LC8, "is really" which may help the > string/number comparison issue. See the LC8 dictionary for details. The is really operator is only for types: /value/ is really [ nothing | a boolean | an integer | a real | a string | a binary string | an array ] and as of LC8dp7 it is not working to well: "0" is a string -> true 0 is a string -> true 0 is an integer -> false 0. is a string -> true 0. is a real -> false "0." is a string -> true The proposed "is exactly" syntax is comparing two variables (or values) for equivalence by type and contents. Whoever came up with the "is exactly" syntax should submit it as an enhancement to http://quality.runrev.com/ It would be a great addition to the language. From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 18:47:12 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:47:12 +0800 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: <7B47CF18-E884-45E2-8A24-E74C8653600C@gmail.com> Mark > On 16 Oct 2015, at 01:07, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > put "0" + 0 into tVar1 -- tVar is really a number > put "0" & 0 into tVar2 -- tVar is really a string > put tVar1 is really tVar2 -- false The current implementation appears to differ a little from the above. You need to specify integer or real as number is not currently supported. When I try ?0? + 0 in the message box only ?is really a string? returns true, ?is really an integer? returns false. Warm regards Peter From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 15 18:51:18 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:51:18 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <4FB4238E.5010301@tweedly.net> References: <4FA85B00.5030400@tweedly.net> <4FB172E9.7050106@tweedly.net> <4FB28C42.1070103@tweedly.net> <4FB2DEAD.8050009@tweedly.net> <4FB4238E.5010301@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Alex, Richard, etc. What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in the tooth. From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 19:26:04 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 00:26:04 +0100 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <7B47CF18-E884-45E2-8A24-E74C8653600C@gmail.com> References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> <7B47CF18-E884-45E2-8A24-E74C8653600C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <790691F6-C487-4EE0-B780-9AD7514693B4@livecode.com> I think that is a combination of precedence ('is really a' binds more tightly than '+') and the bug Paul noticed with regards 'constants' which are currently represented as strings internally except in specific cases due to a rather subtle issue with representations of numbers as strings. Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Oct 2015, at 23:47, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > Mark > >> On 16 Oct 2015, at 01:07, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> put "0" + 0 into tVar1 -- tVar is really a number >> put "0" & 0 into tVar2 -- tVar is really a string >> put tVar1 is really tVar2 -- false > > The current implementation appears to differ a little from the above. You need to specify integer or real as number is not currently supported. > > When I try ?0? + 0 in the message box only ?is really a string? returns true, ?is really an integer? returns false. > > Warm regards > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 15 19:34:26 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:34:26 -0700 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > Alex, Richard, etc. > > What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I > found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he > wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed > that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in > the tooth. The version referred to here as "Richard's" is the famous Tweedly algo, in the middle of this page: Alex came up with that after a a bunch of us here had a long discussion about the many variants of CSV running around, and how stupidly complex they are to parse (see the details in that article). Mike wrote me this afternoon letting me know that there's yet another exception that doesn't seem to be accounted for there: "value","","value" I had thought we'd covered that in the earlier discussion, but perhaps not. So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, Mark Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV parsing and come up with a function that can parse it into tabs efficiently, while taking into account all of the really stupid exceptions that have crept into the world since that really stupid format was first popularized. When we're done I'll update the article, and add even more sarcastic comments about what a really dumb idea it was to have encouraged people to delimit text with a character so frequently appearing in text. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 15 19:42:49 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 00:42:49 +0100 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: I pondered 'is exactly' for the 'is really' semantics previously proposed which are the same as yours :) However I do think that it is slightly misleading - when it comes to numbers (due to the inexact representation used) you can end up with two numeric tokens which are slightly different but compare with 'is exactly' true. I'm wondering whether 'is strictly' is perhaps most appropriate as it suggests the two sides are equal under strict rules (type and value are the same) compared to loose rules (try number comparison first, then string). Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Oct 2015, at 19:47, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> On 2015-10-14 22:19, Devin Asay wrote: >> >> Shouldn?t there be a way to force a string comparison? I know LC tries >> to be all helpful about casting numerals as numbers, but what if I >> want to know if it?s the exact string? > > I think you have come up with the best syntax right there. > > put 3 is "3" -- true > put 3 is "3.0" -- true > put 3 is 2.999999999999999 -- true > > put 3 is exactly "3" -- false > put 3 is exactly "3.0" -- false > put "3" is exactly "3" -- true > put 3 is exactly 3 -- true > put 3 is exactly 3.0 -- true > put 3 is exactly 2.999999999999999 -- false > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Thu Oct 15 20:18:46 2015 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:18:46 +0900 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56204266.5030407@tkf.att.ne.jp> So, tell us what you really think about .CSV, Richard! :-) Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan On 15/10/16 8:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: > stupidly complex > really stupid > stupid format > really dumb idea From alex at tweedly.net Thu Oct 15 20:24:57 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 01:24:57 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> Richard et al., sometime after that article, there was a further thread on the use-list. Pete Haworth found a case not properly covered by the version on the article, and I came up with a revised version (cutely called csv4Tab !! - csv3Tab was an interim, deeply buggy attempt) (It's in http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172275.html ) It *looks* from that thread ( http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172191.html ) as though this case had been discussed, and the re-write should properly handle it - but I haven't yet had time to try it. My laptop has been replaced in the meantime, and I can't find my test stack, and recreating it and finding the test data is a bit too much for after 1am:-) So I'll try it tomorrow; hopefully csv4Tab() will already work for this case. If it doesn't, we can try again :-) -- Alex. On 16/10/2015 00:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > Alex, Richard, etc. > > > > What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I > > found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he > > wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed > > that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in > > the tooth. > > The version referred to here as "Richard's" is the famous Tweedly > algo, in the middle of this page: > > > Alex came up with that after a a bunch of us here had a long > discussion about the many variants of CSV running around, and how > stupidly complex they are to parse (see the details in that article). > > Mike wrote me this afternoon letting me know that there's yet another > exception that doesn't seem to be accounted for there: > > "value","","value" > > I had thought we'd covered that in the earlier discussion, but perhaps > not. > > So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best > minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, > Mark Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV > parsing and come up with a function that can parse it into tabs > efficiently, while taking into account all of the really stupid > exceptions that have crept into the world since that really stupid > format was first popularized. > > When we're done I'll update the article, and add even more sarcastic > comments about what a really dumb idea it was to have encouraged > people to delimit text with a character so frequently appearing in text. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 15 20:34:20 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:34:20 -0700 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Right I remember that although not what the exact problem was. In any case, csv4Tab has been working fine in my SQLiteAdmin program for at least a couple of years now, but I have no idea what flavor of csv files have been imported. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Richard et al., > > sometime after that article, there was a further thread on the use-list. > Pete Haworth found a case not properly covered by the version on the > article, and I came up with a revised version (cutely called csv4Tab !! - > csv3Tab was an interim, deeply buggy attempt) > > (It's in > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172275.html ) > > It *looks* from that thread ( > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172191.html ) as > though this case had been discussed, and the re-write should properly > handle it - but I haven't yet had time to try it. My laptop has been > replaced in the meantime, and I can't find my test stack, and recreating it > and finding the test data is a bit too much for after 1am:-) > > So I'll try it tomorrow; hopefully csv4Tab() will already work for this > case. If it doesn't, we can try again :-) > > -- Alex. > > On 16/10/2015 00:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Mike Kerner wrote: >> > Alex, Richard, etc. >> > >> > What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I >> > found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he >> > wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed >> > that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in >> > the tooth. >> >> The version referred to here as "Richard's" is the famous Tweedly algo, >> in the middle of this page: >> >> >> Alex came up with that after a a bunch of us here had a long discussion >> about the many variants of CSV running around, and how stupidly complex >> they are to parse (see the details in that article). >> >> Mike wrote me this afternoon letting me know that there's yet another >> exception that doesn't seem to be accounted for there: >> >> "value","","value" >> >> I had thought we'd covered that in the earlier discussion, but perhaps >> not. >> >> So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best >> minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, Mark >> Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV parsing and >> come up with a function that can parse it into tabs efficiently, while >> taking into account all of the really stupid exceptions that have crept >> into the world since that really stupid format was first popularized. >> >> When we're done I'll update the article, and add even more sarcastic >> comments about what a really dumb idea it was to have encouraged people to >> delimit text with a character so frequently appearing in text. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 15 20:34:58 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 20:34:58 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> Message-ID: csv4 does not handle it, and it comes up with a different result from csv2 (which is also wrong). I sent Richard proposed changes to csv2 which addresses that issue, but I'll wait while we collectively try to remember what the latest and greatest csv parser algorithm is before I try to come up with more ways to break or fix it. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Richard et al., > > sometime after that article, there was a further thread on the use-list. > Pete Haworth found a case not properly covered by the version on the > article, and I came up with a revised version (cutely called csv4Tab !! - > csv3Tab was an interim, deeply buggy attempt) > > (It's in > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172275.html ) > > It *looks* from that thread ( > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172191.html ) as > though this case had been discussed, and the re-write should properly > handle it - but I haven't yet had time to try it. My laptop has been > replaced in the meantime, and I can't find my test stack, and recreating it > and finding the test data is a bit too much for after 1am:-) > > So I'll try it tomorrow; hopefully csv4Tab() will already work for this > case. If it doesn't, we can try again :-) > > -- Alex. > > > On 16/10/2015 00:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Mike Kerner wrote: >> > Alex, Richard, etc. >> > >> > What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I >> > found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he >> > wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed >> > that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in >> > the tooth. >> >> The version referred to here as "Richard's" is the famous Tweedly algo, >> in the middle of this page: >> >> >> Alex came up with that after a a bunch of us here had a long discussion >> about the many variants of CSV running around, and how stupidly complex >> they are to parse (see the details in that article). >> >> Mike wrote me this afternoon letting me know that there's yet another >> exception that doesn't seem to be accounted for there: >> >> "value","","value" >> >> I had thought we'd covered that in the earlier discussion, but perhaps >> not. >> >> So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best >> minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, Mark >> Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV parsing and >> come up with a function that can parse it into tabs efficiently, while >> taking into account all of the really stupid exceptions that have crept >> into the world since that really stupid format was first popularized. >> >> When we're done I'll update the article, and add even more sarcastic >> comments about what a really dumb idea it was to have encouraged people to >> delimit text with a character so frequently appearing in text. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 15 20:37:18 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 20:37:18 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> Message-ID: For everyone trying to get back up to speed on CSV, here's the closest thing to a "Standard", RFC 4180: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4180 On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Right I remember that although not what the exact problem was. In any > case, csv4Tab has been working fine in my SQLiteAdmin program for at least > a couple of years now, but I have no idea what flavor of csv files have > been imported. > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > > Richard et al., > > > > sometime after that article, there was a further thread on the use-list. > > Pete Haworth found a case not properly covered by the version on the > > article, and I came up with a revised version (cutely called csv4Tab !! - > > csv3Tab was an interim, deeply buggy attempt) > > > > (It's in > > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172275.html ) > > > > It *looks* from that thread ( > > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172191.html ) as > > though this case had been discussed, and the re-write should properly > > handle it - but I haven't yet had time to try it. My laptop has been > > replaced in the meantime, and I can't find my test stack, and recreating > it > > and finding the test data is a bit too much for after 1am:-) > > > > So I'll try it tomorrow; hopefully csv4Tab() will already work for this > > case. If it doesn't, we can try again :-) > > > > -- Alex. > > > > On 16/10/2015 00:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> Mike Kerner wrote: > >> > Alex, Richard, etc. > >> > > >> > What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I > >> > found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he > >> > wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed > >> > that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in > >> > the tooth. > >> > >> The version referred to here as "Richard's" is the famous Tweedly algo, > >> in the middle of this page: > >> > >> > >> Alex came up with that after a a bunch of us here had a long discussion > >> about the many variants of CSV running around, and how stupidly complex > >> they are to parse (see the details in that article). > >> > >> Mike wrote me this afternoon letting me know that there's yet another > >> exception that doesn't seem to be accounted for there: > >> > >> "value","","value" > >> > >> I had thought we'd covered that in the earlier discussion, but perhaps > >> not. > >> > >> So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best > >> minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, > Mark > >> Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV parsing > and > >> come up with a function that can parse it into tabs efficiently, while > >> taking into account all of the really stupid exceptions that have crept > >> into the world since that really stupid format was first popularized. > >> > >> When we're done I'll update the article, and add even more sarcastic > >> comments about what a really dumb idea it was to have encouraged people > to > >> delimit text with a character so frequently appearing in text. > >> > >> -- > >> Richard Gaskin > >> Fourth World Systems > >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > >> ____________________________________________________________________ > >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 15 22:28:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 19:28:39 -0700 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562060D7.50301@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > csv4 does not handle it, and it comes up with a different result from csv2 > (which is also wrong). I sent Richard proposed changes to csv2 which > addresses that issue, but I'll wait while we collectively try to remember > what the latest and greatest csv parser algorithm is before I try to come > up with more ways to break or fix it. If the fix you provided addresses the issues you found it would be helpful to post it here so others can test it. There was a naming issue in previous versions I'd like to address here: The function named "CSV2Tab" uses a naming convention popular among some Pascal programmers back in the day (but apparently less common today), in which conversion functions use a numeral "2" instead of "to" to more readily distinguish the text on either side. Along the way it seems some believed it was a version number embedded in the middle of the function name, and during our discussion we started seeing things like "CSV3Tab", "CSV4Tab", etc. The version at my page may well be what was originally named "CSV4Tab", but renamed once it became the final version when I posted it to my site. To the best of my knowledge the version posted on my page was the most robust available at the time I posted it. Making things even more confusing, I believe there were at least two versions named "CSV4Tab", so I believe it may take some digging to find the latest and greatest. And keep in mind that given the many weird things about the many very different implementations of CSV, the latest may not be the greatest. A few years ago I stopped using the older "2" convention for converters, so no hand-slapping needed; already did it myself. And I've never embedded a version number in a handler name except during testing, so if you ever see code from me that has a numeral in it rest assured it's not a version number; if it's meaning is unclear feel free to ask. So all that said, two notes going forward: 1. When we get a good CSV algo here, the version I post at my page will be named "CSVToTab" to avoid such misunderstandings in the future. 2. While we're experimenting here perhaps we could add a version number at the end of the function name if it needs to be distinguished for comparison purposes (e.g., "CSVtoTab5"). I'll wait to update the page until we have a good one, and when I'll also provide a link back to the source post for reference. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 22:30:12 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:30:12 +0800 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: <790691F6-C487-4EE0-B780-9AD7514693B4@livecode.com> References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> <7B47CF18-E884-45E2-8A24-E74C8653600C@gmail.com> <790691F6-C487-4EE0-B780-9AD7514693B4@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5CE3D70B-D12D-4893-8D77-0A6C4858C0C4@gmail.com> Mark > On 16 Oct 2015, at 07:26, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > I think that is a combination of precedence ('is really a' binds more tightly than '+') and the bug Paul noticed with regards 'constants' which are currently represented as strings internally except in specific cases due to a rather subtle issue with representations of numbers as strings. I should have shown the code that I ran in the message box (multiline): put "0" + 0 into tVar1 put tVar1 is really an integer It returned false. I added a test to my LiveCode tests. It also fails: MT.startTest "Is Really 1" put "0" + 0 into tTemp MT.assert tTemp is really an integer MT.endTest Should I open a bug report? Warm regards Peter From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 15 22:32:29 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 19:32:29 -0700 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562061BD.60308@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > For everyone trying to get back up to speed on CSV, here's the closest > thing to a "Standard", RFC 4180: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4180 Unfortunately the "format" was around for so long before that RFC, and so many big companies have ignored the RFC since, that it doesn't reflect the staggeringly rich variety of escapes and quoting conventions found in real-world data. Doesn't hurt to make sure whatever we come up with handles the spec, but the spec doesn't handle a lot of what the world calls "CSV". (And don't even get me started about files delimited by things other than commas that identify themselves by the acronym for "Comma-Separated Values"). -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From alex at tweedly.net Thu Oct 15 22:55:40 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 03:55:40 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> Hmmmm ... my quick test of what was csv4Tab, but is now called csvToTab1 - see below - gives me (showing results with a colon ':' for the cell delimiter, i.e. replacing numtochar(29) from the code in the previous use-list code a,b,c ---> a:b:c "a","","c" ---> a::c Now to me, that's what it should give - so I think it gets it right :-) Question is a. do you get the same result ? if not, what do you get ? OR can you try with the code below if you do, but disagree that this is right, what do you think it should give ? -- Alex function CSVToTab1 pData,pcoldelim local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data local tReturnPlaceholder -- replaces cr in field data to avoid line -- breaks which would be misread as records; local tNuDelim -- new character to replace the delimiter local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar -- put numtochar(11) into tReturnPlaceholder -- vertical tab as placeholder put numtochar(29) into tNuDelim -- if pcoldelim is empty then put comma into pcoldelim -- Normalize line endings: replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX put "outside" into tStatus set the itemdel to quote repeat for each item k in pData -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg switch tStatus case "inside" put k after theInsideStringSoFar put "passedquote" into tStatus next repeat case "passedquote" -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing quote if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote put quote after theInsideStringSoFar put "inside" into tStatus next repeat end if -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have left the quoted section -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell content !! replace cr with tReturnPlaceholder in theInsideStringSoFar put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData case "outside" replace pcoldelim with tNuDelim in k -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode replace (tNuDelim & CR) with tNuDelim & tNuDelim & CR in k put k after tNuData put "inside" into tStatus put empty into theInsideStringSoFar next repeat default put "defaulted" break end switch end repeat return tNuData end CSVToTab1 On 16/10/2015 01:34, Mike Kerner wrote: > csv4 does not handle it, and it comes up with a different result from csv2 > (which is also wrong). I sent Richard proposed changes to csv2 which > addresses that issue, but I'll wait while we collectively try to remember > what the latest and greatest csv parser algorithm is before I try to come > up with more ways to break or fix it. > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> Richard et al., >> >> sometime after that article, there was a further thread on the use-list. >> Pete Haworth found a case not properly covered by the version on the >> article, and I came up with a revised version (cutely called csv4Tab !! - >> csv3Tab was an interim, deeply buggy attempt) >> >> (It's in >> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172275.html ) >> >> It *looks* from that thread ( >> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172191.html ) as >> though this case had been discussed, and the re-write should properly >> handle it - but I haven't yet had time to try it. My laptop has been >> replaced in the meantime, and I can't find my test stack, and recreating it >> and finding the test data is a bit too much for after 1am:-) >> >> So I'll try it tomorrow; hopefully csv4Tab() will already work for this >> case. If it doesn't, we can try again :-) >> >> -- Alex. >> >> >> On 16/10/2015 00:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> Alex, Richard, etc. >>>> >>>> What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I >>>> found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he >>>> wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed >>>> that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in >>>> the tooth. >>> The version referred to here as "Richard's" is the famous Tweedly algo, >>> in the middle of this page: >>> >>> >>> Alex came up with that after a a bunch of us here had a long discussion >>> about the many variants of CSV running around, and how stupidly complex >>> they are to parse (see the details in that article). >>> >>> Mike wrote me this afternoon letting me know that there's yet another >>> exception that doesn't seem to be accounted for there: >>> >>> "value","","value" >>> >>> I had thought we'd covered that in the earlier discussion, but perhaps >>> not. >>> >>> So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best >>> minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, Mark >>> Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV parsing and >>> come up with a function that can parse it into tabs efficiently, while >>> taking into account all of the really stupid exceptions that have crept >>> into the world since that really stupid format was first popularized. >>> >>> When we're done I'll update the article, and add even more sarcastic >>> comments about what a really dumb idea it was to have encouraged people to >>> delimit text with a character so frequently appearing in text. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Fri Oct 16 00:59:32 2015 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:59:32 +0200 Subject: Re: Export snapshot and native controls In-Reply-To: <2B9F4226-E2FA-4248-B4E2-837A7EFB024F@livecode.org> References: <9076E544-2E6B-4EC1-91D0-3DB9238808A2@earthednet.org> <2B9F4226-E2FA-4248-B4E2-837A7EFB024F@livecode.org> Message-ID: > Le 15 oct. 2015 ? 17:55, Paul Hibbert a ?crit : > > Bill is spot on, try? > > export snapshot from this cd to file tFile as JPEG > > Paul Export snapshot from group ? give me a screenshot without native controls just as your solution. It seem i need to fill a bug ! From cszasz at mac.com Fri Oct 16 01:19:52 2015 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:19:52 -0600 Subject: Clipboard problem with Word and LC Message-ID: I have been struggling with a font/clipboard problem for four days. The following script works great on the Mac (Yosemite) and LC 5.5.5 placing text from a field ?preview? onto to a clipboard and then pasted into a word processing document. The type of font and font size is set from the font menu in an option button. But on Windows XP and Windows 8 the Windows app continues to give a Tahoma font and 9 point size font for all of the fonts when pasted into the Windows version of Open Office. I check the clipBoardData with the following command in the message box on both Mac and Windows versions of LC 5.5.5: put keys(the clipBoardData) which yielded: styles rtf unicode text So there is styled text on the clipboard. Here is the button script for adding the contents of field ?preview? to the clipboard. Please note I tried both RTF and htmlText code but neither worked in Windows on mouseUp if field "preview" <> "" then set the clipboardData to empty set the clipboardData["RTF"] to the RTFText of field "preview" --set the clipboardData["html"] to the htmlText of field ?preview? This gives the same results as RTF else answer information "You have no completed form to add to the clipboard." end if end mouseUp I also an option font menu for field ?preview? with the following script: on menuPick pItemName switch pItemName case "Select Font and Font Size for MSE in Document" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Arial" set the textSize of field "preview" to "12" break case "Arial - 10 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Arial" set the textSize of field "preview" to "10" break case "Arial - 11 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Arial" set the textSize of field "preview" to "11" break case "Arial - 12 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Arial" set the textSize of field "preview" to "12" break case "Georgia - 10 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Georgia" set the textSize of field "preview" to "10" break case "Georgia - 11 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Georgia" set the textSize of field "preview" to "11" break case "Georgia - 12 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Georgia" set the textSize of field "preview" to "12" break case "Palatino - 10 point - Mac only" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Palatino" set the textSize of field "preview" to "10" break case "Palatino - 11 point - Mac only" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Palatino" set the textSize of field "preview" to "11" break case "Palatino - 12 point - Mac only" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Palatino" set the textSize of field "preview" to "12" break case "Tahoma - 10 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Tahoma" set the textSize of field "preview" to "10" break case "Tahoma - 11 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Tahoma" set the textSize of field "preview" to "11" break case "Tahoma - 12 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Tahoma" set the textSize of field "preview" to "12" break case "Times New Roman - 10 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Times New Roman" set the textSize of field "preview" to "10" break case "Times New Roman - 11 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Times New Roman" set the textSize of field "preview" to "11" break case "Times New Roman - 12 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Times New Roman" set the textSize of field "preview" to "12" break case "Verdana - 10 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Verdana" set the textSize of field "preview" to "10" break case "Verdana - 11 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Verdana" set the textSize of field "preview" to "11" break case "Verdana - 12 point" set the textFont of field "preview" to "Verdana" set the textSize of field "preview" to "12" break end switch end menuPick I also viewed LC business academy short lesson on clipboard but it does not provide any clues on how to solve this problem. In fact, it actually takes text from a Word (Mac) document and then pastes it into a LC field, which is not the same thing here. I would appreciate any help to solve this problem. Sent from my iPad From mark at livecode.com Fri Oct 16 04:20:23 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:20:23 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness In-Reply-To: <33F00957-D57E-4E4E-B282-0C084BEF8CC3@livecode.org> References: <33F00957-D57E-4E4E-B282-0C084BEF8CC3@livecode.org> Message-ID: On 2015-10-15 19:42, hh wrote: > Not really, if you mean affine transform. Translation destroys the > wonderful > commutativity you have with my proposal: If you interchange objects in > the > owner path/message path before a target then this has no effect on the > total > scalefactor of this target. And you know the "inverse" operation as a > function! > Beside the usual rounding effects I can see no problem with that at the > moment. I'm not sure I follow - commutativity makes no difference in this instance - you only need invertibility and associativity. Affine transforms can be represented as matrices and matrix multiplication is associative, and non-degenerate matrices have inverses - thus you can replace any scale operation in your proposal with an arbitrary (invertible) matrix representing an affine transform. Indeed, in that light, what you propose is precisely the same as the idea of every object being able to have a transform property (if not set it is the identity) - the total transform of a nested object is the multiplication of all the ancestor transforms. This is how most UI toolkits (which allow arbitrary affine transforms) work and from a rendering point of view poses no problem. > The stack (and it's view) is the global object and handles with the OS > and > the hardware (you have a lot of pretty things already realized for us). > Everything in the stack is in local coords. Yes - this is how it is at the moment - you can translate between local (card-relative) and global (screen-relative) using localLoc and globalLoc functions. > The mouseLoc etc. is scaled by TSF(mouse) = > SF(stack)*SF(card)*SF(mouse). > We don't have to care about such things, you do in the engine. > And it is scripter's problem to ask for the total scalefactor ('TSF') > of objects. Okay - so you suggest that any co-ordinates coming from the engine remain in card-space - where card-space is the top-level transform. This does mean that script will have to explicitly deal with all co-ordinate transforms. So let's say you have a mouseMove handler in a graphic which uses the location of the mouse within itself to change its color: on mouseMove pX, pY if pX < item 1 of the loc of me then if pY < item 2 of the loc of me then set the backColor of me to red else set the backColor of me to green end if else if pY < item 2 of the loc of me then set the backColor of me to blue else set the backColor of me to orange end if end if end mouseMove In an ideal world, this handler would still function regardless of the transform of the graphic containing it. Indeed, if co-ordinates are delivered to it in the target object's local co-ordinate system - then it does. However, for arbitrary transforms where the pX, pY is kept in the card co-ordinate system it cannot - the reason for this is that under an arbitrary affine transform a rectangle which is parallel on both sides to the pixel grid may cease to be parallel to the pixel grid which means that geometry changes (when doing things extrinsically from the target object, at least). Now, it is clear that if you restrict the transform to scale (and translation) then because such things preserve rectangles in both orientation and alignment relative to the pixel grid any non-size related geometry conditions you code remain correct - so the above handler would work fine. However, here is a handler which would not work fine in this instance: on mouseMove pX, pY if pY < the top of me + 20 then set the backColor of me to red else if pY > the bottom of me - 20 then set the backColor of me to green else set the backColor of me to blue end if end mouseMove Under a 'keep everything at the card-space' model - this code breaks as the scale of the target object changes. This is because the handler is dependent on a size (20) which is relative to the object's innate size rather than its scaled size. So, for this handler to work (even in a restricted, scale/translate only transform model) the script would need to be amended: on mouseMove pX, pY if pY < the top of me + 20 * the effective yScale of me then set the backColor of me to red else if pY > the bottom of me - 20 * the effective xScale of me then set the backColor of me to green else set the backColor of me to blue end if end mouseMove Thus, in reality, keeping things in 'card-level' co-ordinate system and only allowing scale/translation makes no difference to the requirements on code. For general scripts which manipulate co-ordinates in anything other than very simple ways, you still have to explicitly take into account the potential effects of transformation thus, at the end of the day, you might as well allow arbitrary affine transforms since the code burden is identical. For example, the above modified code works if only scaling is allowing, however the code for the case of arbitrary transforms would be something like: on mouseMove pX, pY local tY put item 2 of objectLoc(pX, pY) into tY if tY < 20 then set the backColor of me to red else if tY > the relative height of me - 20 then set the backColor of me to green else set the backColor of me to blue end if end mouseMove Here, I'm assuming a function 'objectLoc' which transforms a point from card-space to object-space (object-space being defined by the concatenation of transforms from itself up to the card). I'm also assuming that 'loc', 'left', 'top', 'right', 'bottom', 'width' and 'height' have 'relative' adjectives which return them in object-space, rather than card-space. Perhaps an 'objectLoc' idea and arbitrary affine transforms are not something to be concerned about. If you use transforms you might have to do some co-ordinate juggling, if you are writing controls which you want to be used generally - again, you might have to do some co-ordinate juggling. The rule is just that if passing co-ordinates between objects (unless there is a prior agreement), you need to keep things in card-space and let the code in the target objects do the appropriate transform. Of course there is a gulf between having an idea that might work and implementing it in the engine - the lack of floating point co-ordinates is going to be a huge issue here I think... The 'visibleRect' of a stack is at least feasible in the near term - which at least gives zoom and panning at the card-level if not at the individual object level. Plenty to think about! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 04:39:54 2015 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:54 +0100 Subject: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 In-Reply-To: References: <005d01d10767$94b59890$be20c9b0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Hi Tiemo, The previously suggested solution will not work. But in LC 6.7.8 RC1 (released yesterday) you can set the dontuseqt for the player object. So this will work: on preopenstack put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename set the filename of player "myPlayer" to empty set the dontuseQT of player "myPlayer" to false set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename [...] end preopenstack Another solution that will work in LC versions before 6.7.8 RC1, is to delete and recreate the player on preopenstack. This will force the player to use QT from the very first time your stack is loaded: on preopenstack set the dontuseQT to false put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename delete player "myPlayer" create player "myPlayer" set the showcontroller of player "myPlayer" to true // This is needed because the newly created player has no controller set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename set the rect of player "myPlayer" to tRect end preopenstack Best regards, Panos -- On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 6:00 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Hi Tiemo, > > What happens if you do: > > on preopenstack > > put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename > set the filename of player "myPlayer" to empty > set the dontuseQT to false > set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename > [...] > end preopenstack > > Best regards, > Panos > -- > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> OSX 10.9.5. Because of video file compatibility I still want to use QT in >> 6.7.6. In preopenstack I set: >> >> set the dontuseQT to false >> >> put the qtVersion into tTest >> >> In IDE: start player "myplayer" -- nothing happens. The player runs (I >> get >> the playStopped status after the video is finished), but doesn't shows any >> video. Doing "set the dontuseQT to false" multiple times again, changes >> nothing. >> >> When closing the stack, removing from memory and reloading the same stack >> a >> second time, everything works fine like before in LC 6.5.2, the videos are >> played fine. So it seems, it has something to do with loading and >> providing >> QT. The first opening of my stack seems to load QT, but doesn't provides >> it >> to my stack. When opening the stack a second time, it now catches the >> properly loaded QT. >> >> In a standalone the videos are not played anymore at all. >> >> Does anybody got QT to run under 6.7.6? Any ideas, what else I could do? >> >> Thanks for any hints >> >> Tiemo >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 16 05:09:40 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:09:40 +0200 Subject: AW: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 In-Reply-To: References: <005d01d10767$94b59890$be20c9b0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <002901d107f2$63d04a50$2b70def0$@kestner.de> Hi Panos, Thanks Panos, but that didn't worked. I found a workaround. If I create a splash stack, where I set dontuseQT to false and go from the splash stack to my real stack then QT works correct. But I didn't found a trick to get it to run in the first stack. I will file a bug. If anybody gets another idea for a workaround I would love to test it Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von panagiotis merakos Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Oktober 2015 19:01 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 Hi Tiemo, What happens if you do: on preopenstack put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename set the filename of player "myPlayer" to empty set the dontuseQT to false set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename [...] end preopenstack Best regards, Panos -- On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > OSX 10.9.5. Because of video file compatibility I still want to use QT > in 6.7.6. In preopenstack I set: > > set the dontuseQT to false > > put the qtVersion into tTest > > In IDE: start player "myplayer" -- nothing happens. The player runs > (I get the playStopped status after the video is finished), but > doesn't shows any video. Doing "set the dontuseQT to false" multiple > times again, changes nothing. > > When closing the stack, removing from memory and reloading the same > stack a second time, everything works fine like before in LC 6.5.2, > the videos are played fine. So it seems, it has something to do with > loading and providing QT. The first opening of my stack seems to load > QT, but doesn't provides it to my stack. When opening the stack a > second time, it now catches the properly loaded QT. > > In a standalone the videos are not played anymore at all. > > Does anybody got QT to run under 6.7.6? Any ideas, what else I could do? > > Thanks for any hints > > Tiemo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 05:33:59 2015 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:33:59 +0100 Subject: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 In-Reply-To: <002901d107f2$63d04a50$2b70def0$@kestner.de> References: <005d01d10767$94b59890$be20c9b0$@kestner.de> <002901d107f2$63d04a50$2b70def0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Hi Tiemo, I saw that your reply was on my first comment, which I just confirmed that does not work. But the solutions suggested in my next comment should work. In case you missed it, here it is: In LC 6.7.8 RC1 (released yesterday) you can set the dontuseqt for the player object. So this *will* work: on preopenstack put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename set the filename of player "myPlayer" to empty set the dontuseQT of player "myPlayer" to false set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename [...] end preopenstack Another solution that will work in LC versions before 6.7.8 RC1, is to delete and recreate the player on preopenstack. This will force the player to use QT from the very first time your stack is loaded: on preopenstack set the dontuseQT to false put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename delete player "myPlayer" create player "myPlayer" set the showcontroller of player "myPlayer" to true // This is needed because the newly created player has no controller set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename set the rect of player "myPlayer" to tRect end preopenstack Best, Panos -- On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hi Panos, > Thanks Panos, but that didn't worked. > I found a workaround. If I create a splash stack, where I set dontuseQT to > false and go from the splash stack to my real stack then QT works correct. > But I didn't found a trick to get it to run in the first stack. > I will file a bug. > If anybody gets another idea for a workaround I would love to test it > Tiemo > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im > Auftrag > von panagiotis merakos > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Oktober 2015 19:01 > An: How to use LiveCode > Betreff: Re: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 > > Hi Tiemo, > > What happens if you do: > > on preopenstack > > put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename set the filename of > player "myPlayer" to empty set the dontuseQT to false set the filename of > player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename [...] end preopenstack > > Best regards, > Panos > -- > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > OSX 10.9.5. Because of video file compatibility I still want to use QT > > in 6.7.6. In preopenstack I set: > > > > set the dontuseQT to false > > > > put the qtVersion into tTest > > > > In IDE: start player "myplayer" -- nothing happens. The player runs > > (I get the playStopped status after the video is finished), but > > doesn't shows any video. Doing "set the dontuseQT to false" multiple > > times again, changes nothing. > > > > When closing the stack, removing from memory and reloading the same > > stack a second time, everything works fine like before in LC 6.5.2, > > the videos are played fine. So it seems, it has something to do with > > loading and providing QT. The first opening of my stack seems to load > > QT, but doesn't provides it to my stack. When opening the stack a > > second time, it now catches the properly loaded QT. > > > > In a standalone the videos are not played anymore at all. > > > > Does anybody got QT to run under 6.7.6? Any ideas, what else I could do? > > > > Thanks for any hints > > > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dave at applicationinsight.com Fri Oct 16 05:53:46 2015 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 02:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: LC8 (dp7) - pretty darn good Message-ID: <1444989226119-4697568.post@n4.nabble.com> Just thought I'd report back my experiences of using LC8 (dp7) in doing final builds and submission to Google Play Store and iTunesConnect. The IDE in dp7 is for me now workable because so many weirdnesses have been ironed out - still plenty remaining but I can live with them in the knowledge that with each release things will get better. I'm also getting used to the new property inspector! Also, it sounds like from other threads that the project browser is going to get a makeover making it even more useful (ok I already like the project browser - I'm what Jacque calls a "vertical person" and prefer it to the application browser. Android - dp7 built my app just fine for android and when i uploaded the .apk to the Play Store it was accepted no problem and went live on the store a couple of hours later. Since then the app has been performing fine (except for things to do with my own design/code/choices). 10 out of 10 to LC8 for Android. iOS - dp7 again built my app perfectly, I then used Jacque's AirLaunch to make an .ipa file (I know I'm lazy but I like using her app to do this simple job) - I then opened Application Loader to submit the binary to iTunesConnect - and apart from a warning telling me that the .ipa file was too big to be analysed before submission everything went smoothly (this was a warning rather than an error and I don't think it's a material issue). A few minutes later I got an email from iTunes with the customary "Missing Push Notification Entitlement" warning (which I'm also ignoring). I clicked the 'Submit for Review' button and the status changed to "Waiting For Review". So, fingers crossed it seems that dp7 has also performed fine for iOS. 9 out of 10 to LC8 for iOS (because of those silly warnings about push notification) Testflight - currently LC 6.7.8(rc1) and 7.1.1(rc1) have a nice checkbox in the standalone application settings dialog box - but LC8(dp7) doesn't yet, I guess the next LC8 version will have it. However it was the work of 5 minutes to amend the StoreEntitlements.xcent files as described at http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24315&p=127912&hilit=where+is+Entitlements.xcent#p127912 - I made these changes before I did the final build for iOS - and with it done was able to set up internal and external testers for testFlight on iTunesConnect. So 8 out of 10 to LC8 for TestFlight (because I had to edit plist files) So, assuming my app in iTunesConnect doesn't get rejected for some reason to do with LC8 I think I am now ready to move over to LC8 as my main working version. For some time I've been using LC7 but now that LC8 lets me build and deploy to iOS and Android - as well as desktop and server - I'm moving over! How about the rest of you? Any others with positive experiences of LC8? Dave PS: I'm running Yosemite with Xcode 6.4 PPS: I was impressed when trying out my app with TestFlight as the process was so smooth (no need for UDID's). In future I think I'll be making use of it for iOS as well as the excellent alpha/beta testing features in the Google Play Store. ----- "The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-dp7-pretty-darn-good-tp4697568.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 16 06:05:06 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:05:06 +0200 Subject: AW: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 In-Reply-To: References: <005d01d10767$94b59890$be20c9b0$@kestner.de> <002901d107f2$63d04a50$2b70def0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <002a01d107fa$2265cb50$673161f0$@kestner.de> Thank you Panos, I tested the first approach with 6.7.8 and it works perfectly! Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von panagiotis merakos Gesendet: Freitag, 16. Oktober 2015 11:34 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 Hi Tiemo, I saw that your reply was on my first comment, which I just confirmed that does not work. But the solutions suggested in my next comment should work. In case you missed it, here it is: In LC 6.7.8 RC1 (released yesterday) you can set the dontuseqt for the player object. So this *will* work: on preopenstack put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename set the filename of player "myPlayer" to empty set the dontuseQT of player "myPlayer" to false set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename [...] end preopenstack Another solution that will work in LC versions before 6.7.8 RC1, is to delete and recreate the player on preopenstack. This will force the player to use QT from the very first time your stack is loaded: on preopenstack set the dontuseQT to false put the rect of player "myPlayer" into tRect put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename delete player "myPlayer" create player "myPlayer" set the showcontroller of player "myPlayer" to true // This is needed because the newly created player has no controller set the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename set the rect of player "myPlayer" to tRect end preopenstack Best, Panos -- On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hi Panos, > Thanks Panos, but that didn't worked. > I found a workaround. If I create a splash stack, where I set > dontuseQT to false and go from the splash stack to my real stack then QT works correct. > But I didn't found a trick to get it to run in the first stack. > I will file a bug. > If anybody gets another idea for a workaround I would love to test it > Tiemo > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im > Auftrag von panagiotis merakos > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Oktober 2015 19:01 > An: How to use LiveCode > Betreff: Re: I don't get Quicktime to run under LC 6.7.6 > > Hi Tiemo, > > What happens if you do: > > on preopenstack > > put the filename of player "myPlayer" into tOldFilename set the > filename of player "myPlayer" to empty set the dontuseQT to false set > the filename of player "myPlayer" to tOldFilename [...] end > preopenstack > > Best regards, > Panos > -- > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB > > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > OSX 10.9.5. Because of video file compatibility I still want to use > > QT in 6.7.6. In preopenstack I set: > > > > set the dontuseQT to false > > > > put the qtVersion into tTest > > > > In IDE: start player "myplayer" -- nothing happens. The player runs > > (I get the playStopped status after the video is finished), but > > doesn't shows any video. Doing "set the dontuseQT to false" multiple > > times again, changes nothing. > > > > When closing the stack, removing from memory and reloading the same > > stack a second time, everything works fine like before in LC 6.5.2, > > the videos are played fine. So it seems, it has something to do with > > loading and providing QT. The first opening of my stack seems to > > load QT, but doesn't provides it to my stack. When opening the stack > > a second time, it now catches the properly loaded QT. > > > > In a standalone the videos are not played anymore at all. > > > > Does anybody got QT to run under 6.7.6? Any ideas, what else I could do? > > > > Thanks for any hints > > > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jana.doughty at livecode.com Fri Oct 16 06:38:17 2015 From: jana.doughty at livecode.com (Jana Doughty) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:38:17 +0200 Subject: How to Make Computer Programming Ridiculously Easy Message-ID: Hi All, We have a great new blog post that went up yesterday. It's from community member, Stephen Goldberg, who has put together the top 150 LiveCode programming words to make learning to program with LiveCode (as a beginner) that much easier. Check it out and let Stephen know how he can best update and extend the book to include words for mobile devices! Some of you might even want to help him extend it! https://livecode.com/how-livecode-lite-makes-computer-programming-ridiculously-simple/ Thanks! Jana From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Oct 16 07:48:13 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:48:13 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Richard, Yes, I understand it was a Pascal Pun, and then in 2012, when this thread originally happened, it became something more, sort of a version pun on a pascal pun, if you will. Rather than posting fixes to the one on your blog, let's go through the "state of the art" and work on that, instead, if it needs it. Alex, I see at least two issues with this version: First of all, you never substitute tab for tNuDelim, so the string you return is numtochar(29) delimited, not tab-delimited. The last line of your function, before the "return tNuData" line should be "replace tNuDelim with tab" Second of all, I get two different results in my sample, depending on whether or not the string is ...ERRRRRRRRRRR -terminated or not After fixing the problem, above, When I run "A","","C" I get A i.e. the "C" is missing NOW, if I send "A","","C" A C I haven't looked for that bug, yet. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Hmmmm ... my quick test of what was csv4Tab, but is now called csvToTab1 - > see below - gives me > (showing results with a colon ':' for the cell delimiter, i.e. replacing > numtochar(29) from the code in the previous use-list code > > a,b,c ---> a:b:c > "a","","c" ---> a::c > > Now to me, that's what it should give - so I think it gets it right :-) > > Question is > a. do you get the same result ? > if not, what do you get ? OR can you try with the code below > if you do, but disagree that this is right, what do you think it > should give ? > > -- Alex > > function CSVToTab1 pData,pcoldelim > local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data > local tReturnPlaceholder -- replaces cr in field data to avoid line > -- breaks which would be misread as records; > local tNuDelim -- new character to replace the delimiter > local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar > -- > put numtochar(11) into tReturnPlaceholder -- vertical tab as placeholder > put numtochar(29) into tNuDelim > -- > if pcoldelim is empty then put comma into pcoldelim > -- Normalize line endings: > replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX > replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX > > put "outside" into tStatus > set the itemdel to quote > repeat for each item k in pData > -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg > switch tStatus > > case "inside" > put k after theInsideStringSoFar > put "passedquote" into tStatus > next repeat > > case "passedquote" > -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing > quote > if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote > put quote after theInsideStringSoFar > put "inside" into tStatus > next repeat > end if > -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have > left the quoted section > -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell > content !! > replace cr with tReturnPlaceholder in theInsideStringSoFar > put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData > > case "outside" > replace pcoldelim with tNuDelim in k > -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode > replace (tNuDelim & CR) with tNuDelim & tNuDelim & CR in k > put k after tNuData > put "inside" into tStatus > put empty into theInsideStringSoFar > next repeat > default > put "defaulted" > break > end switch > end repeat > return tNuData > end CSVToTab1 > > > On 16/10/2015 01:34, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> csv4 does not handle it, and it comes up with a different result from csv2 >> (which is also wrong). I sent Richard proposed changes to csv2 which >> addresses that issue, but I'll wait while we collectively try to remember >> what the latest and greatest csv parser algorithm is before I try to come >> up with more ways to break or fix it. >> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> Richard et al., >>> >>> sometime after that article, there was a further thread on the use-list. >>> Pete Haworth found a case not properly covered by the version on the >>> article, and I came up with a revised version (cutely called csv4Tab !! - >>> csv3Tab was an interim, deeply buggy attempt) >>> >>> (It's in >>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172275.html ) >>> >>> It *looks* from that thread ( >>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172191.html ) as >>> though this case had been discussed, and the re-write should properly >>> handle it - but I haven't yet had time to try it. My laptop has been >>> replaced in the meantime, and I can't find my test stack, and recreating >>> it >>> and finding the test data is a bit too much for after 1am:-) >>> >>> So I'll try it tomorrow; hopefully csv4Tab() will already work for this >>> case. If it doesn't, we can try again :-) >>> >>> -- Alex. >>> >>> >>> On 16/10/2015 00:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>> Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> >>>>> Alex, Richard, etc. >>>>> >>>>> What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I >>>>> found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he >>>>> wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed >>>>> that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in >>>>> the tooth. >>>>> >>>> The version referred to here as "Richard's" is the famous Tweedly algo, >>>> in the middle of this page: >>>> >>>> >>>> Alex came up with that after a a bunch of us here had a long discussion >>>> about the many variants of CSV running around, and how stupidly complex >>>> they are to parse (see the details in that article). >>>> >>>> Mike wrote me this afternoon letting me know that there's yet another >>>> exception that doesn't seem to be accounted for there: >>>> >>>> "value","","value" >>>> >>>> I had thought we'd covered that in the earlier discussion, but perhaps >>>> not. >>>> >>>> So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best >>>> minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, >>>> Mark >>>> Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV parsing >>>> and >>>> come up with a function that can parse it into tabs efficiently, while >>>> taking into account all of the really stupid exceptions that have crept >>>> into the world since that really stupid format was first popularized. >>>> >>>> When we're done I'll update the article, and add even more sarcastic >>>> comments about what a really dumb idea it was to have encouraged people >>>> to >>>> delimit text with a character so frequently appearing in text. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> Fourth World Systems >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 16 10:58:50 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:58:50 +0000 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Someone wrote a piece years ago about why no one who wanted to maintain his sanity should attempt to write an XML to CSV parser. In the process of writing the piece, his mind degenerated until he was blathering on about non-sensical things. The devil had finished his work on the poor soul. I do not think there *IS* a way to cover all the exceptions in a CSV parser. CSV does not lend itself to correct parsing. Just trying to figure out how to deal with a cr or lf inside quoted text will get you therapy. Never mind a thousands separator in a numeric non-quoted value, which will probably get you a stay in a very quiet hotel room where you can't find the checkout desk. Bob S On Oct 15, 2015, at 16:34 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, Mark Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV parsing and come up with a function that can parse it into tabs efficiently, while taking into account all of the really stupid exceptions that have crept into the world since that really stupid format was first popularized. From alex at tweedly.net Fri Oct 16 11:04:55 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:04:55 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> Hi Mike, thanks for that additional info. I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever they want. As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to jst do all the translations .... replace CRLF with CR in pData replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData -- Alex. On 16/10/2015 12:48, Mike Kerner wrote: > Richard, > Yes, I understand it was a Pascal Pun, and then in 2012, when this thread > originally happened, it became something more, sort of a version pun on a > pascal pun, if you will. > > Rather than posting fixes to the one on your blog, let's go through the > "state of the art" and work on that, instead, if it needs it. > > > Alex, > I see at least two issues with this version: > First of all, you never substitute tab for tNuDelim, so the string you > return is numtochar(29) delimited, not tab-delimited. > The last line of your function, before the "return tNuData" line should be > "replace tNuDelim with tab" > > Second of all, I get two different results in my sample, depending on > whether or not the string is ...ERRRRRRRRRRR -terminated or not > After fixing the problem, above, > > When I run > "A","","C" > I get > A > i.e. the "C" is missing > > NOW, if I send > "A","","C" > A C > > I haven't looked for that bug, yet. > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> Hmmmm ... my quick test of what was csv4Tab, but is now called csvToTab1 - >> see below - gives me >> (showing results with a colon ':' for the cell delimiter, i.e. replacing >> numtochar(29) from the code in the previous use-list code >> >> a,b,c ---> a:b:c >> "a","","c" ---> a::c >> >> Now to me, that's what it should give - so I think it gets it right :-) >> >> Question is >> a. do you get the same result ? >> if not, what do you get ? OR can you try with the code below >> if you do, but disagree that this is right, what do you think it >> should give ? >> >> -- Alex >> >> function CSVToTab1 pData,pcoldelim >> local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data >> local tReturnPlaceholder -- replaces cr in field data to avoid line >> -- breaks which would be misread as records; >> local tNuDelim -- new character to replace the delimiter >> local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar >> -- >> put numtochar(11) into tReturnPlaceholder -- vertical tab as placeholder >> put numtochar(29) into tNuDelim >> -- >> if pcoldelim is empty then put comma into pcoldelim >> -- Normalize line endings: >> replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX >> replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX >> >> put "outside" into tStatus >> set the itemdel to quote >> repeat for each item k in pData >> -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg >> switch tStatus >> >> case "inside" >> put k after theInsideStringSoFar >> put "passedquote" into tStatus >> next repeat >> >> case "passedquote" >> -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing >> quote >> if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote >> put quote after theInsideStringSoFar >> put "inside" into tStatus >> next repeat >> end if >> -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have >> left the quoted section >> -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell >> content !! >> replace cr with tReturnPlaceholder in theInsideStringSoFar >> put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData >> >> case "outside" >> replace pcoldelim with tNuDelim in k >> -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode >> replace (tNuDelim & CR) with tNuDelim & tNuDelim & CR in k >> put k after tNuData >> put "inside" into tStatus >> put empty into theInsideStringSoFar >> next repeat >> default >> put "defaulted" >> break >> end switch >> end repeat >> return tNuData >> end CSVToTab1 >> >> >> On 16/10/2015 01:34, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> csv4 does not handle it, and it comes up with a different result from csv2 >>> (which is also wrong). I sent Richard proposed changes to csv2 which >>> addresses that issue, but I'll wait while we collectively try to remember >>> what the latest and greatest csv parser algorithm is before I try to come >>> up with more ways to break or fix it. >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>> Richard et al., >>>> sometime after that article, there was a further thread on the use-list. >>>> Pete Haworth found a case not properly covered by the version on the >>>> article, and I came up with a revised version (cutely called csv4Tab !! - >>>> csv3Tab was an interim, deeply buggy attempt) >>>> >>>> (It's in >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172275.html ) >>>> >>>> It *looks* from that thread ( >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-May/172191.html ) as >>>> though this case had been discussed, and the re-write should properly >>>> handle it - but I haven't yet had time to try it. My laptop has been >>>> replaced in the meantime, and I can't find my test stack, and recreating >>>> it >>>> and finding the test data is a bit too much for after 1am:-) >>>> >>>> So I'll try it tomorrow; hopefully csv4Tab() will already work for this >>>> case. If it doesn't, we can try again :-) >>>> >>>> -- Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16/10/2015 00:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike Kerner wrote: >>>>>> Alex, Richard, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> What do we consider the latest version of the csv parser? I think I >>>>>> found a bug in Richard's CSV2Text code, and proposed changes, but he >>>>>> wanted the discussion to go down over here, first. Then I noticed >>>>>> that csv4Text is out over here, which makes 2, I guess, a bit long in >>>>>> the tooth. >>>>>> >>>>> The version referred to here as "Richard's" is the famous Tweedly algo, >>>>> in the middle of this page: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Alex came up with that after a a bunch of us here had a long discussion >>>>> about the many variants of CSV running around, and how stupidly complex >>>>> they are to parse (see the details in that article). >>>>> >>>>> Mike wrote me this afternoon letting me know that there's yet another >>>>> exception that doesn't seem to be accounted for there: >>>>> >>>>> "value","","value" >>>>> >>>>> I had thought we'd covered that in the earlier discussion, but perhaps >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> So this seems like a good time to once again bring together the best >>>>> minds in our community (are you listening Alex Tweedly, Geoff Canyon, >>>>> Mark >>>>> Weider, Dick Kreisel, and others?) to see if we can revisit CSV parsing >>>>> and >>>>> come up with a function that can parse it into tabs efficiently, while >>>>> taking into account all of the really stupid exceptions that have crept >>>>> into the world since that really stupid format was first popularized. >>>>> >>>>> When we're done I'll update the article, and add even more sarcastic >>>>> comments about what a really dumb idea it was to have encouraged people >>>>> to >>>>> delimit text with a character so frequently appearing in text. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Richard Gaskin >>>>> Fourth World Systems >>>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 16 11:28:06 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:28:06 +0000 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> Message-ID: But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive. Bob S > On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > thanks for that additional info. > > I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever they want. > > As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... > > Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? > How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? > Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? > > (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to jst do all the translations .... > > replace CRLF with CR in pData > replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData > replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData > > -- Alex. From paul at livecode.org Fri Oct 16 11:31:14 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:31:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Export snapshot and native controls In-Reply-To: References: <9076E544-2E6B-4EC1-91D0-3DB9238808A2@earthednet.org> <2B9F4226-E2FA-4248-B4E2-837A7EFB024F@livecode.org> Message-ID: Now I see this is a problem with iOS, I have looked at your bug report and see the same problem in LC 7.1.1 (rc1) and LC 8.0.0 (dp7) when fullScreeMode is set to true. I hope LC can correct this soon for you. Regards, Paul > On 15 Oct 2015, at 21:59, Ludovic THEBAULT wrote: > > >> Le 15 oct. 2015 ? 17:55, Paul Hibbert a ?crit : >> >> Bill is spot on, try? >> >> export snapshot from this cd to file tFile as JPEG >> >> Paul > > > Export snapshot from group ? give me a screenshot without native controls > just as your solution. > > It seem i need to fill a bug ! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 16 11:32:21 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:32:21 +0000 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> Message-ID: <6A8ABF1D-0AB8-406B-B895-6AF11594CC6C@iotecdigital.com> You and I are apparently in the minority on that point these days. In fact, we may be the only two people left! ;-) Bob S On Oct 14, 2015, at 01:14 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: Unfortunately, I don't have much confidence in chaos producing anything in any particularly useful timeframe (the mathematician in me screams that the numbers just don't add up in that regard). From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Oct 16 11:35:57 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:35:57 -0700 Subject: LC8 (dp7) - pretty darn good In-Reply-To: <1444989226119-4697568.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444989226119-4697568.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4E58CDE8-4F88-4863-94D9-489E5C5F5784@earthednet.org> Dave, Thank you for this great summary and encouragement for lc8. I'll definitely give it a try soon. This kind of info re strategies for getting apps on mobile, in the store, etc, are really useful. Best, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Oct 16, 2015, at 2:53 AM, Dave Kilroy wrote: > > Just thought I'd report back my experiences of using LC8 (dp7) in doing final > builds and submission to Google Play Store and iTunesConnect. > > The IDE in dp7 is for me now workable because so many weirdnesses have been > ironed out - still plenty remaining but I can live with them in the > knowledge that with each release things will get better. I'm also getting > used to the new property inspector! Also, it sounds like from other threads > that the project browser is going to get a makeover making it even more > useful (ok I already like the project browser - I'm what Jacque calls a > "vertical person" and prefer it to the application browser. > > Android - dp7 built my app just fine for android and when i uploaded the > .apk to the Play Store it was accepted no problem and went live on the store > a couple of hours later. Since then the app has been performing fine (except > for things to do with my own design/code/choices). 10 out of 10 to LC8 for > Android. > > iOS - dp7 again built my app perfectly, I then used Jacque's AirLaunch to > make an .ipa file (I know I'm lazy but I like using her app to do this > simple job) - I then opened Application Loader to submit the binary to > iTunesConnect - and apart from a warning telling me that the .ipa file was > too big to be analysed before submission everything went smoothly (this was > a warning rather than an error and I don't think it's a material issue). A > few minutes later I got an email from iTunes with the customary "Missing > Push Notification Entitlement" warning (which I'm also ignoring). I clicked > the 'Submit for Review' button and the status changed to "Waiting For > Review". So, fingers crossed it seems that dp7 has also performed fine for > iOS. 9 out of 10 to LC8 for iOS (because of those silly warnings about push > notification) > > Testflight - currently LC 6.7.8(rc1) and 7.1.1(rc1) have a nice checkbox in > the standalone application settings dialog box - but LC8(dp7) doesn't yet, I > guess the next LC8 version will have it. However it was the work of 5 > minutes to amend the StoreEntitlements.xcent files as described at > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24315&p=127912&hilit=where+is+Entitlements.xcent#p127912 > - I made these changes before I did the final build for iOS - and with it > done was able to set up internal and external testers for testFlight on > iTunesConnect. So 8 out of 10 to LC8 for TestFlight (because I had to edit > plist files) > > So, assuming my app in iTunesConnect doesn't get rejected for some reason to > do with LC8 I think I am now ready to move over to LC8 as my main working > version. > > For some time I've been using LC7 but now that LC8 lets me build and deploy > to iOS and Android - as well as desktop and server - I'm moving over! > > How about the rest of you? Any others with positive experiences of LC8? > > Dave > > PS: I'm running Yosemite with Xcode 6.4 > > PPS: I was impressed when trying out my app with TestFlight as the process > was so smooth (no need for UDID's). In future I think I'll be making use of > it for iOS as well as the excellent alpha/beta testing features in the > Google Play Store. > > > > ----- > "The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-dp7-pretty-darn-good-tp4697568.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 12:03:02 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:03:02 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <0971FA8E-23C2-45A7-9E3A-E4D8F3839E29@aol.com> References: <561B31D6.4070100@hyperactivesw.com> <1505c42f9e6-4ecb-79e@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com> <0971FA8E-23C2-45A7-9E3A-E4D8F3839E29@aol.com> Message-ID: I couldn't find the original code for the offset version, but I took a shot at it and got the following results, with the repeat solution still faster (in 6.7.3): Run Count: 10 Test ID: 1 Looking for greatest value < 500000000 sort 0.920932 499998402 repeat 0.33892 499998402 PMB 0.337938 499998402 ByOffset 0.448632 499998402 Test ID: 2 Looking for greatest value < 5 sort 0.914448 repeat 0.223951 PMB 0.213347 ByOffset 0.426248 Test ID: 3 Looking for greatest value < 999999995 sort 0.913603 999999959 repeat 0.439324 999999959 PMB 0.51457 999999959 ByOffset 0.46632 999999959 The code: on mouseUp repeat 1000000 put random(1000000000),"" after L end repeat put 500000000 into testcase[1] put 5 into testcase[2] put 999999995 into testcase[3] put 10 into runCount repeat with i = 1 to runCount repeat with testID = 1 to 3 repeat for each item testType in "sort,repeat,PMB,ByOffset" put i && testID && testType into fld 3 put the long seconds into S do format("put greatestLessThan%s(L,testcase[%s]) into R[%s][%s]",testType,testID,testType,testID) add (the long seconds - S) to T[testType][testID] end repeat end repeat end repeat put "Run Count:" && runCount & cr & cr into fld 3 repeat with testID = 1 to 3 put "Test ID:" && testID && "Looking for greatest value <" && testcase[testID] & cr after fld 3 repeat for each item testType in "sort,repeat,PMB,ByOffset" put testType && T[testType][testID]/runCount && R[testType][testID] & cr after fld 3 end repeat put cr after fld 3 end repeat end mouseUp function greatestLessThanSort pList,V sort items of pList descending numeric sort items of pList by each >= V return item 1 of pList end greatestLessThanSort function greatestLessThanRepeat pList,V put empty into R repeat for each item i in pList if i < V and i > R then put i into R end repeat return R end greatestLessThanRepeat function greatestLessThanPMB tList,maxVal repeat for each item i in tList if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList end repeat if outList is empty then return empty else return max(outList) end greatestLessThanPMB function greatestLessThanByOffset pList,V put "",V after pList sort items of pList numeric return item (itemOffset(V,pList) - 1) of pList end greatestLessThanByOffset On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Craig Newman wrote: > Hi. > > The param "3" would be added to the list. The sorted list would be: > "2,3,4". When the itemOffset finds the "3", the item just before it would > be "2". That is how it works. To find the item just before itemOffset does. > > This is faster than any of the "repeat for each..." variants I have seen > here. The reason, as I stated earlier as an uninformed opinion, is that the > low-level "sort" routine beats the high-level "repeat" routine. > > Craig > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 14, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 6:35 AM, wrote: > >> > >> My gadget adds the index in a parameter to the function. if it already > >> exists in the list, the addition is superfluous, but harmless. > > > > But if the search list is "2, 4", and the search value is 3, doesn't this > > return "3" rather than 2? > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Oct 16 12:19:04 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:19:04 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> Message-ID: No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which makes me wonder if this is the latest version. On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not > a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational > when your friends arrive. > > Bob S > > > > On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > thanks for that additional info. > > > > I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) > because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells > (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is > completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do > "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever > they want. > > > > As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... > > > > Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? > > How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? > > Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? > > > > (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does > auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure > when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to jst do > all the translations .... > > > > replace CRLF with CR in pData > > replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData > > replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData > > > > -- Alex. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pete at lcsql.com Fri Oct 16 12:51:35 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:51:35 -0700 Subject: LC8 (dp7) - pretty darn good In-Reply-To: <1444989226119-4697568.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1444989226119-4697568.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I've been using LC8 quite a bit recently in connection with adding support for widgets in lcstackbrowser. No experience using it for mobile platform but it seems to behave itself quite well on OSX, except..... I've had a number of issues when running in debug mode. Red dot breakpoints don't always fire, most commonly when I have stopped execution in a previous debug session, made changes, then started another debug execution. I know this has been a long standing issue for some people but it's only happened to me very rarely in the past, and then usually in preOpenCard/Stack handlers where it is a known problem. Now it happens much more frequently. I've also found that examining large variables is painfully slow. In fact trying to expand an array variable with a large number of keys often causes LC8 to hang (spinning beachball) with force quit being the only way out, or even just silently quit. I don't have reliable recipes to reproduce either of the above so have not entered QCC reports. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 2:53 AM, Dave Kilroy wrote: > Just thought I'd report back my experiences of using LC8 (dp7) in doing > final > builds and submission to Google Play Store and iTunesConnect. > > The IDE in dp7 is for me now workable because so many weirdnesses have been > ironed out - still plenty remaining but I can live with them in the > knowledge that with each release things will get better. I'm also getting > used to the new property inspector! Also, it sounds like from other threads > that the project browser is going to get a makeover making it even more > useful (ok I already like the project browser - I'm what Jacque calls a > "vertical person" and prefer it to the application browser. > > Android - dp7 built my app just fine for android and when i uploaded the > .apk to the Play Store it was accepted no problem and went live on the > store > a couple of hours later. Since then the app has been performing fine > (except > for things to do with my own design/code/choices). 10 out of 10 to LC8 for > Android. > > iOS - dp7 again built my app perfectly, I then used Jacque's AirLaunch to > make an .ipa file (I know I'm lazy but I like using her app to do this > simple job) - I then opened Application Loader to submit the binary to > iTunesConnect - and apart from a warning telling me that the .ipa file was > too big to be analysed before submission everything went smoothly (this was > a warning rather than an error and I don't think it's a material issue). A > few minutes later I got an email from iTunes with the customary "Missing > Push Notification Entitlement" warning (which I'm also ignoring). I clicked > the 'Submit for Review' button and the status changed to "Waiting For > Review". So, fingers crossed it seems that dp7 has also performed fine for > iOS. 9 out of 10 to LC8 for iOS (because of those silly warnings about push > notification) > > Testflight - currently LC 6.7.8(rc1) and 7.1.1(rc1) have a nice checkbox in > the standalone application settings dialog box - but LC8(dp7) doesn't yet, > I > guess the next LC8 version will have it. However it was the work of 5 > minutes to amend the StoreEntitlements.xcent files as described at > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24315&p=127912&hilit=where+is+Entitlements.xcent#p127912 > - I made these changes before I did the final build for iOS - and with it > done was able to set up internal and external testers for testFlight on > iTunesConnect. So 8 out of 10 to LC8 for TestFlight (because I had to edit > plist files) > > So, assuming my app in iTunesConnect doesn't get rejected for some reason > to > do with LC8 I think I am now ready to move over to LC8 as my main working > version. > > For some time I've been using LC7 but now that LC8 lets me build and deploy > to iOS and Android - as well as desktop and server - I'm moving over! > > How about the rest of you? Any others with positive experiences of LC8? > > Dave > > PS: I'm running Yosemite with Xcode 6.4 > > PPS: I was impressed when trying out my app with TestFlight as the process > was so smooth (no need for UDID's). In future I think I'll be making use of > it for iOS as well as the excellent alpha/beta testing features in the > Google Play Store. > > > > ----- > "The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits." - > Albert Einstein > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC8-dp7-pretty-darn-good-tp4697568.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 13:16:59 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:16:59 -0700 Subject: uncrufting a stack file? Message-ID: Is there any good way to "uncruft" a stack file? I'm thinking in terms of a script that copies pieces from the old stack file to a new file, while somehow keeping the references such as behaviors intact. I am increasingly convinced that there is an evil accumulation of something or another that has to do with my constant crashing, particularly when attempting to save. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From rjearp99 at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 13:27:55 2015 From: rjearp99 at gmail.com (Earp Robert J.) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:27:55 -0700 Subject: Starting off with LC & Raspberry Pi's Message-ID: I?ve been tinkering with my grandkids of late getting them going on basic electronics (H/W) and mousing around with rudimentary programming. I guess I should have thought at the start that the two would get together at some point, but at the beginning it was a case of explaining the fundamentals of what I was doing with electronics in the workshop, primarily fixing things. The idea of programming came after discovering the great Everything Machine app (from Tinybop) for an iPad which then led to showing how the grandkids could use LC to do more stuff. I figure they need to learn how to control the world through the Internet of Things before somebody else controls them, not that they don?t need controlling at times along with their grandfather ;-) The H/W side of things has got to the point of considering adding some intelligence and I was going the route of PLC?s, and separately an Arduino, but of course programming those is not as fun as in LC or as easy. So, when seeing Monty?s mergeBLE announcement I thought great, the Arduino?s and LC can go together. I?m sure that will be the case in the long term but it needs a wrapper around it before us plebes will achieve productivity before inept frustration sets in. Then through chance I stumbled across Fraser Gordon?s 2013 announcement of LC running on a Raspberry Pi which then led me to wonder if that combination allows LC to talk to the physical outside world, that is, through the Pi?s I/O. Unfortunately I cannot find much more information except for the LC Forum where I can?t find anything fundamental about LC & R-Pi?s, but Fraser?s article did say to post questions on this list, so that?s why you are reading it here. So, here?s some Q?s that I?m hoping somebody can answer, or at least point me in the direction of where the answers may be. Also, if there is a better/more appropriate list for this subject, I?d appreciate knowing that too. Q. Can LC and the Pi?s I/O communicate ? If so, is that native or through an extension ? Q. Can you run stand-alone?s on the Pi ? Q. LC v6.5.1seems to be the latest version of LC that will run on the Pi, which is fine, but is there any likelihood of future releases being made ? Q. Is there is a better/more appropriate list, than this one, for the subject of LC and Raspberry Pi?s ? Q. Can you suggest any more resources to look at ? Many thanks, Bob? Bob Earp White Rock, British Columbia. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 16 13:42:10 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:42:10 -0400 Subject: Starting off with LC & Raspberry Pi's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There was a man at the LiveCode LIVE14 conference that brought his pi, and was doing sessions on the subject. I'm sorry but I don't have his name or any contact details. Maybe others who attended might remember. On Oct 16, 2015 1:28 PM, "Earp Robert J." wrote: > I?ve been tinkering with my grandkids of late getting them going on basic > electronics (H/W) and mousing around with rudimentary programming. I guess > I should have thought at the start that the two would get together at some > point, but at the beginning it was a case of explaining the fundamentals of > what I was doing with electronics in the workshop, primarily fixing > things. The idea of programming came after discovering the great > Everything Machine app (from Tinybop) for an iPad which then led to showing > how the grandkids could use LC to do more stuff. I figure they need to > learn how to control the world through the Internet of Things before > somebody else controls them, not that they don?t need controlling at times > along with their grandfather ;-) > > The H/W side of things has got to the point of considering adding some > intelligence and I was going the route of PLC?s, and separately an Arduino, > but of course programming those is not as fun as in LC or as easy. So, > when seeing Monty?s mergeBLE announcement I thought great, the Arduino?s > and LC can go together. I?m sure that will be the case in the long term > but it needs a wrapper around it before us plebes will achieve productivity > before inept frustration sets in. > > Then through chance I stumbled across Fraser Gordon?s 2013 announcement of > LC running on a Raspberry Pi which then led me to wonder if that > combination allows LC to talk to the physical outside world, that is, > through the Pi?s I/O. Unfortunately I cannot find much more information > except for the LC Forum where I can?t find anything fundamental about LC & > R-Pi?s, but Fraser?s article did say to post questions on this list, so > that?s why you are reading it here. > > So, here?s some Q?s that I?m hoping somebody can answer, or at least point > me in the direction of where the answers may be. Also, if there is a > better/more appropriate list for this subject, I?d appreciate knowing that > too. > > Q. Can LC and the Pi?s I/O communicate ? If so, is that native or through > an extension ? > > Q. Can you run stand-alone?s on the Pi ? > > Q. LC v6.5.1seems to be the latest version of LC that will run on the Pi, > which is fine, but is there any likelihood of future releases being made ? > > Q. Is there is a better/more appropriate list, than this one, for the > subject of LC and Raspberry Pi?s ? > > Q. Can you suggest any more resources to look at ? > > > Many thanks, Bob? > > Bob Earp > White Rock, British Columbia. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 13:51:12 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:51:12 -0400 Subject: uncrufting a stack file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Any of the various "export this stack as XML/JSON/whatever then reconstitute the stack from same" scripts that have been released over the years would be one way to do this. gc On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Is there any good way to "uncruft" a stack file? > > I'm thinking in terms of a script that copies pieces from the old stack > file to a new file, while somehow keeping the references such as behaviors > intact. > > I am increasingly convinced that there is an evil accumulation of something > or another that has to do with my constant crashing, particularly when > attempting to save. > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Oct 16 14:02:34 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:02:34 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15071d14c99-2a88-ef9a@webprd-m46.mail.aol.com> Geoff. My original post: on mouseUp answer findItemLessThanIndex(fld 1,"5") end mouseUp function findItemLessThanIndex tData,tIndex put comma & tIndex after tData sort items of tData numeric return item itemOffset("5",tData) -1 of tData end findItemLessThanIndex Craig -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Canyon To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2015 12:04 pm Subject: Re: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value I couldn't find the original code for the offset version, but I took a shot at it and got the following results, with the repeat solution still faster (in 6.7.3): Run Count: 10 Test ID: 1 Looking for greatest value < 500000000 sort 0.920932 499998402 repeat 0.33892 499998402 PMB 0.337938 499998402 ByOffset 0.448632 499998402 Test ID: 2 Looking for greatest value < 5 sort 0.914448 repeat 0.223951 PMB 0.213347 ByOffset 0.426248 Test ID: 3 Looking for greatest value < 999999995 sort 0.913603 999999959 repeat 0.439324 999999959 PMB 0.51457 999999959 ByOffset 0.46632 999999959 The code: on mouseUp repeat 1000000 put random(1000000000),"" after L end repeat put 500000000 into testcase[1] put 5 into testcase[2] put 999999995 into testcase[3] put 10 into runCount repeat with i = 1 to runCount repeat with testID = 1 to 3 repeat for each item testType in "sort,repeat,PMB,ByOffset" put i && testID && testType into fld 3 put the long seconds into S do format("put greatestLessThan%s(L,testcase[%s]) into R[%s][%s]",testType,testID,testType,testID) add (the long seconds - S) to T[testType][testID] end repeat end repeat end repeat put "Run Count:" && runCount & cr & cr into fld 3 repeat with testID = 1 to 3 put "Test ID:" && testID && "Looking for greatest value <" && testcase[testID] & cr after fld 3 repeat for each item testType in "sort,repeat,PMB,ByOffset" put testType && T[testType][testID]/runCount && R[testType][testID] & cr after fld 3 end repeat put cr after fld 3 end repeat end mouseUp function greatestLessThanSort pList,V sort items of pList descending numeric sort items of pList by each >= V return item 1 of pList end greatestLessThanSort function greatestLessThanRepeat pList,V put empty into R repeat for each item i in pList if i < V and i > R then put i into R end repeat return R end greatestLessThanRepeat function greatestLessThanPMB tList,maxVal repeat for each item i in tList if i < maxVal then put i & comma after outList end repeat if outList is empty then return empty else return max(outList) end greatestLessThanPMB function greatestLessThanByOffset pList,V put "",V after pList sort items of pList numeric return item (itemOffset(V,pList) - 1) of pList end greatestLessThanByOffset On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Craig Newman wrote: > Hi. > > The param "3" would be added to the list. The sorted list would be: > "2,3,4". When the itemOffset finds the "3", the item just before it would > be "2". That is how it works. To find the item just before itemOffset does. > > This is faster than any of the "repeat for each..." variants I have seen > here. The reason, as I stated earlier as an uninformed opinion, is that the > low-level "sort" routine beats the high-level "repeat" routine. > > Craig > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 14, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 6:35 AM, wrote: > >> > >> My gadget adds the index in a parameter to the function. if it already > >> exists in the list, the addition is superfluous, but harmless. > > > > But if the search list is "2, 4", and the search value is 3, doesn't this > > return "3" rather than 2? > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 14:13:17 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:13:17 -0400 Subject: function for greatest object in list less than or equal to a value In-Reply-To: <15071d14c99-2a88-ef9a@webprd-m46.mail.aol.com> References: <15071d14c99-2a88-ef9a@webprd-m46.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 2:02 PM, wrote: > Geoff. > > > My original post: > > > > on mouseUp > answer findItemLessThanIndex(fld 1,"5") > end mouseUp > > function findItemLessThanIndex tData,tIndex > put comma & tIndex after tData > sort items of tData numeric > return item itemOffset("5",tData) -1 of tData > end findItemLessThanIndex > > > Craig > Okay, that's what I implemented to test, so great. I have this weird problem that gmail thinks posts to this list are spam. I've implemented a rule to never let mail to this list be spam, but gmail makes a pain of itself by labeling items as "This item wasn't put in spam because you said so, but you should still consider letting us get rid of it for you." There is apparently no way to tell gmail that it's being stupid and to just stop doing that. And I think it messes with search results. :-/ gc From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Fri Oct 16 14:03:17 2015 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: uncrufting a stack file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1445018597169-4697586.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi, Not sure of your platform or LC version, but perhaps this is relevant: I went through a period of chronic crashes while saving work on a large project that originated two years ago in LC 5.5 and is now in LC 7.1. The crashes were happening on Win 7, LC 7.x (pre 7.1). What helped reduce, but not eliminate, the crashes was to reinstall LC and to thin out my active plug-ins. I still get some crashes, but rarely when saving. Most of my crashes seem to involve the Project Browser or copy/cut/paste actions. Another crash inducer for me is to put the script editor window on a second screen while the main IDE is on the first screen. Again, all that was on Windows (7) in LC 7.x. HTH, Tom -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/uncrufting-a-stack-file-tp4697581p4697586.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mikedoub at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 14:10:34 2015 From: mikedoub at gmail.com (Michael Doub) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:10:34 -0400 Subject: Starting off with LC & Raspberry Pi's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56213D9A.8050109@gmail.com> Earp, Take a look at the Raspberry Pi routines in the MasterLibrary. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4uawi24k2gdwa3q/MasterLibrary.txt?dl=0 There are some I/O routines there. -= Mike On 10/16/15 1:27 PM, Earp Robert J. wrote: > I?ve been tinkering with my grandkids of late getting them going on basic electronics (H/W) and mousing around with rudimentary programming. I guess I should have thought at the start that the two would get together at some point, but at the beginning it was a case of explaining the fundamentals of what I was doing with electronics in the workshop, primarily fixing things. The idea of programming came after discovering the great Everything Machine app (from Tinybop) for an iPad which then led to showing how the grandkids could use LC to do more stuff. I figure they need to learn how to control the world through the Internet of Things before somebody else controls them, not that they don?t need controlling at times along with their grandfather ;-) > > The H/W side of things has got to the point of considering adding some intelligence and I was going the route of PLC?s, and separately an Arduino, but of course programming those is not as fun as in LC or as easy. So, when seeing Monty?s mergeBLE announcement I thought great, the Arduino?s and LC can go together. I?m sure that will be the case in the long term but it needs a wrapper around it before us plebes will achieve productivity before inept frustration sets in. > > Then through chance I stumbled across Fraser Gordon?s 2013 announcement of LC running on a Raspberry Pi which then led me to wonder if that combination allows LC to talk to the physical outside world, that is, through the Pi?s I/O. Unfortunately I cannot find much more information except for the LC Forum where I can?t find anything fundamental about LC & R-Pi?s, but Fraser?s article did say to post questions on this list, so that?s why you are reading it here. > > So, here?s some Q?s that I?m hoping somebody can answer, or at least point me in the direction of where the answers may be. Also, if there is a better/more appropriate list for this subject, I?d appreciate knowing that too. > > Q. Can LC and the Pi?s I/O communicate ? If so, is that native or through an extension ? > > Q. Can you run stand-alone?s on the Pi ? > > Q. LC v6.5.1seems to be the latest version of LC that will run on the Pi, which is fine, but is there any likelihood of future releases being made ? > > Q. Is there is a better/more appropriate list, than this one, for the subject of LC and Raspberry Pi?s ? > > Q. Can you suggest any more resources to look at ? > > > Many thanks, Bob? > > Bob Earp > White Rock, British Columbia. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Fri Oct 16 14:31:55 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:31:55 -0700 Subject: Starting off with LC & Raspberry Pi's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I currently have a LC app running on a RPi connected to an Arduino Uno that controls my Mitsubishi Heat Pump with pre-programmed IR signals. It took a lot of learning to to make it work and during this time I found it was easier to build the IR controller on Arduino due to some restrictions with RPi I/O. The LC side of the equation was the easy part thanks to Fraser?s work, and I do have more plans for better automation, but it worked pretty well through most of last winter. LC has allowed me to build a very versatile programer for the heat pump. I?m very interested in Monte?s mergeBLE, so I?ll be checking it out when I get home, we are currently travelling round British Columbia, so unfortunately I don?t have access to all my notes and files right now, but I?ll try to answer some of your question from memory? > Q. Can LC and the Pi?s I/O communicate ? If so, is that native or through an extension ? This is where I ran into problems and ended using the Arduino, however it is possible AFAIK. > Q. Can you run stand-alone?s on the Pi ? Yes, definitely. You can also run LC and build apps although it is much slower than a regular desktop. RPi2 should be better. > Q. LC v6.5.1seems to be the latest version of LC that will run on the Pi, which is fine, but is there any likelihood of future releases being made ? As far as I know there is, the LC team have all been pretty busy lately and much of the RPi work was done by Fraser, I understand he is still very keen to continue. Maybe when LC8 is stabilised. > Q. Is there is a better/more appropriate list, than this one, for the subject of LC and Raspberry Pi?s ? There is a section on the LC forums. > Q. Can you suggest any more resources to look at ? That?s where I need my notes! Regards, Paul From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Oct 16 14:49:39 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:49:39 -0500 Subject: Clipboard problem with Word and LC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562146C3.30404@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/16/2015 12:19 AM, Charles Szasz wrote: > I have been struggling with a font/clipboard problem for four days. > The following script works great on the Mac (Yosemite) and LC 5.5.5 > placing text from a field ?preview? onto to a clipboard and then > pasted into a word processing document. The type of font and font > size is set from the font menu in an option button. > > But on Windows XP and Windows 8 the Windows app continues to give a > Tahoma font and 9 point size font for all of the fonts when pasted > into the Windows version of Open Office. This sounds to me like OO is overriding the clipboard styling and replacing it with the document default styles. I know LC keeps the styling when transfering text to the clipboard, and I assume its RTF text is compatible. Does anyone have experience with Open Office? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Fri Oct 16 15:03:06 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:03:06 -0700 Subject: Arrays and TextEncode/Decode Message-ID: I have an array that can contain Unicode characters in either it's keys or key values. I arrayEncode the array and write out to a file. Should I textEncode the keys/values before arrayEncoding the array and then textDecode the keys/values when reading it back in and arrayDecoding it? Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Oct 16 15:09:24 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:09:24 -0700 Subject: Calendar widget? Message-ID: <4B619D05-5905-45B0-91F6-4C46649C6109@earthednet.org> I?d like to put in a vote for a calendar widget. I?m programming a calendar popup with datagrid, but it seems a calendar and time picking widget would be generally very useful. Best, Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From smaclean at madmansoft.com Fri Oct 16 15:17:59 2015 From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:17:59 -0400 Subject: Release: 6.7.8 RC 1 / 7.1.1 RC 1 In-Reply-To: <561FBF07.9080706@livecode.com> References: <561FBF07.9080706@livecode.com> Message-ID: <8E08813E-5BE8-4962-A4D6-B31A6912116F@madmansoft.com> I am only seeing the iOS 9.0 Simulator as a target, even though I have all the 8.x simulators installed? xCode 7.0.1 Is this as expected? Best, Steve MacLean > On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Sebastien Nouat wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.8 RC 1 and 7.1.1 RC 1. > > *Release Contents > * > > > This release also allows you to select Xcode 7.0 in the Preferences > Mobile Support pane, and thus allowing users to deploy on iOS 9.0 simulator. > > *Known Issues with Xcode 7.0 and iOS ***9.0 *simulator > > ** The first time an iOS application is saved as a standalone with LiveCode 6.7.8 RC 1, and error might occur at the linking step. This only occurs once, and does not replicate at a second saving. > > * When deploying on iOS simulator 9.0, if the dialog 'The simulator seems to take a long time to launch the application. Do you wish to continue trying?' appears, and 'No' is clicked, then LiveCode crashes (or hangs). This is due to a bug in Xcode 7.0, and we are currently working on finding a workaround. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Oct 16 15:27:32 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 06:27:32 +1100 Subject: Arrays and TextEncode/Decode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 17 Oct 2015, at 6:03 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > I have an array that can contain Unicode characters in either it's keys or > key values. I arrayEncode the array and write out to a file. > > Should I textEncode the keys/values before arrayEncoding the array and then > textDecode the keys/values when reading it back in and arrayDecoding it? It depends on if you are using the old arrayEncode format and need interoperability with old versions of LC. If it?s just 7+ then what was a string before arrayEncode will be a string after arrayDecode. From cszasz at mac.com Fri Oct 16 15:32:20 2015 From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:32:20 -0600 Subject: Clipboard problem with Word and LC Message-ID: Jacque, This clipboard problem also occurs with Microsoft Word on Windows 8. And, paste special in both Open Office and Word does not change the results of pasting into a document on Windows XP and 8. Sent from my iPad From pete at lcsql.com Fri Oct 16 15:34:26 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:34:26 -0700 Subject: Arrays and TextEncode/Decode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for reminding me of the different arrayEncode methods in LC 7 and LC prior to 7. Fortunately, this code will only be executed in LC7+, actually only LC8+ so I'm OK with the array encoding. I'm just not sure about the Unicode aspects of this though. Normally, it seems to be the rule that you should textEncode data when writing it out to a file and textDecode it when reading it in from a file. Is that still the case when the data is arrayEncoded? No other programs will be reading the file, not even other LC programs. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Monte Goulding < monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > > On 17 Oct 2015, at 6:03 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > I have an array that can contain Unicode characters in either it's keys > or > > key values. I arrayEncode the array and write out to a file. > > > > Should I textEncode the keys/values before arrayEncoding the array and > then > > textDecode the keys/values when reading it back in and arrayDecoding it? > > It depends on if you are using the old arrayEncode format and need > interoperability with old versions of LC. If it?s just 7+ then what was a > string before arrayEncode will be a string after arrayDecode. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Oct 16 15:41:10 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 06:41:10 +1100 Subject: Arrays and TextEncode/Decode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91F910A2-3DEA-46E7-BE1F-58E490010D60@sweattechnologies.com> > On 17 Oct 2015, at 6:34 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Normally, it > seems to be the rule that you should textEncode data when writing it out to > a file and textDecode it when reading it in from a file. Is that still the > case when the data is arrayEncoded? arrayEncode|Decode packs and unpacks your data for you in such a way that you don?t need to be concerned about this. I imagine this was a large part of the reason for the update to the format. So because the engine knows the file format of encoded arrays it can decode them. Just like it knows the format of stacks. If you were saving a block of text to a file though then you would definitely need to textEncode|Decode because the engine has no idea of the encoding of the file. Cheers Monte From eric at canelasoftware.com Fri Oct 16 16:44:56 2015 From: eric at canelasoftware.com (Eric Corbett) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:44:56 -0700 Subject: Sockets Message-ID: <5F7261C7-5667-4A0B-990B-C256D68E4828@canelasoftware.com> I?ve read all the documentation and posts I can find and something still confuses me about sockets? Server computer accept connections on port 12345 with message ?readSocket? Client opens socket IP:12345 Client writes to socket IP:12345 Server reads message from client: on readSocket pAddress, pMsg? pAddress in this case does not contain IP:12345, but IP:[some unique id] My question is how do I send a message back to the client on IP:[some unique id]? What does the client have to do to read messages coming back? If I need to send messages back and forth, I have always created a server on both sides. According to docs, this should not be necessary. I don?t know how to open a single socket and send messages back and forth. Bonus: How do I use the "|[connection id]?? I use an id for open socket and write to, but the address from the readSocket callback does not contain an ID. Is this a bug? I use write to? with message? and this handler has the ID as part of the address, but what use is it for the client if the server does not get it? I?ve been using sockets for years, but still feel thoroughly ignorant. Thanks, Eric From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 16 17:53:05 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:53:05 +0000 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> Message-ID: The force is strong with this one. Bob S On Oct 16, 2015, at 09:19 , Mike Kerner > wrote: No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which makes me wonder if this is the latest version. On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar > wrote: But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive. Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 16 17:54:16 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:54:16 +0000 Subject: uncrufting a stack file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At that point I would consider backing up all your data, buying a new hard drive and starting from scratch with a new OS. Bob S > On Oct 16, 2015, at 10:16 , Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > Is there any good way to "uncruft" a stack file? > > I'm thinking in terms of a script that copies pieces from the old stack > file to a new file, while somehow keeping the references such as behaviors > intact. > > I am increasingly convinced that there is an evil accumulation of something > or another that has to do with my constant crashing, particularly when > attempting to save. > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 16 18:31:57 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 22:31:57 +0000 Subject: Arrays and TextEncode/Decode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A13A44B-45F1-4DDF-9A92-C25BC5EBFBF5@iotecdigital.com> Wouldn't hurt to textEncode/Decode. As long as you are writing our binary it shouldn't matter either way. Bob S On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:34 , Peter Haworth > wrote: Thanks for reminding me of the different arrayEncode methods in LC 7 and LC prior to 7. Fortunately, this code will only be executed in LC7+, actually only LC8+ so I'm OK with the array encoding. I'm just not sure about the Unicode aspects of this though. Normally, it seems to be the rule that you should textEncode data when writing it out to a file and textDecode it when reading it in from a file. Is that still the case when the data is arrayEncoded? No other programs will be reading the file, not even other LC programs. Pete From alex at tweedly.net Fri Oct 16 18:54:13 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:54:13 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <56218015.40208@tweedly.net> It's likely (but of course not 100% guaranteed) that those characters have themselves been manipulated in a consistent way by either LC or any other subsystem - i.e. auto-translated or not. Anyone who chooses to use those as genuinely different characters within quoted cells *deserves* to have their data be unreadable :-) -- Alex. On 16/10/2015 16:28, Bob Sneidar wrote: > But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive. > > Bob S > > >> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> Hi Mike, >> >> thanks for that additional info. >> >> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever they want. >> >> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >> >> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >> >> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to jst do all the translations .... >> >> replace CRLF with CR in pData >> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >> >> -- Alex. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 16 18:56:11 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 22:56:11 +0000 Subject: Sockets In-Reply-To: <5F7261C7-5667-4A0B-990B-C256D68E4828@canelasoftware.com> References: <5F7261C7-5667-4A0B-990B-C256D68E4828@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <58413537-6E17-4D24-A752-35111C95ADC2@iotecdigital.com> use open socket then read from socket with message [callbackmessage]. In your [callback message] handler the it variable will contain the read data. If you don't use the with message form, you run the risk of exceeding the time set in the socketTimeoutInterval, at which point it will return the data read up until that point. I got all that just reading the dictionary, so I hope I got all that right. Bob S > On Oct 16, 2015, at 13:44 , Eric Corbett wrote: > > I?ve read all the documentation and posts I can find and something still confuses me about sockets? > > Server computer accept connections on port 12345 with message ?readSocket? > > Client opens socket IP:12345 > Client writes to socket IP:12345 > > Server reads message from client: > > on readSocket pAddress, pMsg? > > pAddress in this case does not contain IP:12345, but IP:[some unique id] > > My question is how do I send a message back to the client on IP:[some unique id]? > What does the client have to do to read messages coming back? > > If I need to send messages back and forth, I have always created a server on both sides. According to docs, this should not be necessary. I don?t know how to open a single socket and send messages back and forth. > > Bonus: How do I use the "|[connection id]?? I use an id for open socket and write to, but the address from the readSocket callback does not contain an ID. Is this a bug? I use write to? with message? and this handler has the ID as part of the address, but what use is it for the client if the server does not get it? > > I?ve been using sockets for years, but still feel thoroughly ignorant. > > Thanks, > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Oct 16 19:03:47 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 00:03:47 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' statements) if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData before the parsing happens ? -- Alex. On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: > No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores > ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. > > The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a > terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one > way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which > makes me wonder if this is the latest version. > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > >> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not >> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational >> when your friends arrive. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> thanks for that additional info. >>> >>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells >> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever >> they want. >>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>> >>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>> >>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to jst do >> all the translations .... >>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>> >>> -- Alex. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From alex at tweedly.net Fri Oct 16 19:12:10 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 00:12:10 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> Duh - replying to myself again :-) It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). -- Alex. On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? > Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? > i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? > > Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' > statements) > if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData > before the parsing happens ? > > -- Alex. > > > On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >> >> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it >> one >> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which >> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >> >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar >> >> wrote: >> >>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it >>> is not >>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>> operational >>> when your friends arrive. >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Mike, >>>> >>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>> >>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the >>> cells >>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or >>> whatever >>> they want. >>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>> >>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>> >>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>> jst do >>> all the translations .... >>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>> >>>> -- Alex. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 19:47:49 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:47:49 -0700 Subject: Sockets In-Reply-To: <5F7261C7-5667-4A0B-990B-C256D68E4828@canelasoftware.com> References: <5F7261C7-5667-4A0B-990B-C256D68E4828@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Eric Corbett wrote: > Bonus: How do I use the "|[connection id]?? I use an id for open socket > and write to, but the address from the readSocket callback does not contain > an ID. Is this a bug? I use write to? with message? and this handler has > the ID as part of the address, but what use is it for the client if the > server does not get it? The gist of it is that when you listen on at the server, and opensocket at the client, you specify handlers. That handler is then called when there is a message from the other. If you search the archives, there should be a link where you could download my old master/slave stacks, which talk to one another. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 20:03:19 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 17:03:19 -0700 Subject: uncrufting a stack file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > At that point I would consider backing up all your data, buying a new hard > drive and starting from scratch with a new OS. Tempting, but . . . This is happening identically, with the same size (3.3mb) partial save file, on a MacBook Pro retina with SSD and a week old fresh installation of El Capitan, and a 24" iMac with a hard drive running yosemite. It was also happening with the betas of El Capitan (there is apparently no way to go from the beta to the actual release; it's a fresh install). And no other symptoms on any other program on either machines. I put on 7.1.1-rc1 this morning, and no crashes for a few hours, until I opened the card I'd been working on, made a trivial change, and attempted to save. So I opened again, opened the card, saved before any changes, and it appears to not be constantly crashing any more. also, for Tom--I have no plugins, and one library stack of scripts. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From eric at canelasoftware.com Fri Oct 16 20:09:18 2015 From: eric at canelasoftware.com (Eric Corbett) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 17:09:18 -0700 Subject: Sockets In-Reply-To: References: <5F7261C7-5667-4A0B-990B-C256D68E4828@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Bob, but it doesn?t quite help. I can use sockets, just not sure how to talk back and forth without having both devices acting like a server. Thanks Dr. Hawkins, I?ll look that up. Does your code have both computers doing an ?accept connection on port ??? And is the port different on each computer or the same? Maybe I?ll have my answer from a code audit. I?ll have to look back at the rev chat example again also, but I don?t remember this being helpful. Eric > On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Eric Corbett > wrote: > >> Bonus: How do I use the "|[connection id]?? I use an id for open socket >> and write to, but the address from the readSocket callback does not contain >> an ID. Is this a bug? I use write to? with message? and this handler has >> the ID as part of the address, but what use is it for the client if the >> server does not get it? > > > The gist of it is that when you listen on at the server, and opensocket at > the client, you specify handlers. That handler is then called when there > is a message from the other. > > If you search the archives, there should be a link where you could download > my old master/slave stacks, which talk to one another. > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Oct 16 21:34:28 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:34:28 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> Message-ID: It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Duh - replying to myself again :-) > > It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly > generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional > test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't > get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra > line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). > > -- Alex. > > > On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >> >> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >> statements) >> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >> before the parsing happens ? >> >> -- Alex. >> >> >> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>> >>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one >>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which >>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not >>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>> operational >>>> when your friends arrive. >>>> >>>> Bob S >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>> >>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >>>>> >>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells >>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever >>>> they want. >>>> >>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>> >>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>>> >>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>> >>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>> jst do >>>> all the translations .... >>>> >>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>> >>>>> -- Alex. >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Oct 16 21:36:11 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: Starting off with LC & Raspberry Pi's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5621A60B.20501@ahsoftware.net> On 10/16/2015 11:31 AM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >> Q. LC v6.5.1seems to be the latest version of LC that will run on the Pi, which is fine, but is there any likelihood of future releases being made ? > > As far as I know there is, the LC team have all been pretty busy lately and much of the RPi work was done by Fraser, I understand he is still very keen to continue. Maybe when LC8 is stabilised. Yeah, I would wait a while on this. I attempted to rebuild the engine on a pi2 recently and failed. I think the make files need updating since the migration to gyp. It's on my backburner to-do list to look into it, but not soon. And given the fact that the team has decided to end-of-life everything except LC8 I think I'll wait for LC8 to settle down a bit before refactoring the build files. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Oct 16 21:37:21 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 18:37:21 -0700 Subject: Starting off with LC & Raspberry Pi's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5621A651.1030406@ahsoftware.net> On 10/16/2015 10:27 AM, Earp Robert J. wrote: > Q. Is there is a better/more appropriate list, than this one, for the subject of LC and Raspberry Pi?s ? Yeah, unfortunately it's the web forum. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 22:24:01 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 19:24:01 -0700 Subject: Sockets In-Reply-To: References: <5F7261C7-5667-4A0B-990B-C256D68E4828@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Eric Corbett wrote: > Thanks Dr. Hawkins, I?ll look that up. Does your code have both computers > doing an ?accept connection on port ??? And is the port different on each > computer or the same? Maybe I?ll have my answer from a code audit. > Master accepts the connection, and slave initiates with openSocket. Each has a field. Type into the field, hit return, and it messages the other. So once you open, slave writes to the socket, triggering "gotAMsg theTextofTheMessage" on master. Similarly, Master can write to the socket, triggering a message on slave. If one of these handlers, for example, decides that it got a query, it can write to the socket to respond, triggering the handler on the other, and so forth, -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From capellan2000 at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 00:03:12 2015 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 00:03:12 -0400 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files Message-ID: Hi All, I have almost complete a rustic parser for SVG gradients, build on top of Ian Macphail's SVGL: http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL For now, this rustic parser just works with Inkscape Optimized SVGs... but I want to know about other kinds of files produced by SVG Editors that you actually use. Now, I need that each of you (who want to use SVG in your stacks) build a very simple SVG with just two Rectangles and just two gradients: A radial gradient and a linear Gradient similar to this image, http://imgur.com/nYEuBLr Please, post a link to your SVG or just paste the SVG source code in your message. Thanks in advance. Alejandro From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 02:01:54 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:01:54 +0300 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5621E452.3070207@gmail.com> On 17/10/15 07:03, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi All, > > I have almost complete a rustic parser > for SVG gradients, build on top of > Ian Macphail's SVGL: > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL > > For now, this rustic parser just works with > Inkscape Optimized SVGs... but > I want to know about other kinds of files > produced by SVG Editors that > you actually use. > > Now, I need that each of you (who want to use > SVG in your stacks) build a very simple SVG > with just two Rectangles and just two gradients: > A radial gradient and a linear Gradient > similar to this image, http://imgur.com/nYEuBLr > > Please, post a link to your SVG or just paste > the SVG source code in your message. > > Thanks in advance. > > Alejandro > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25612 Love, Richmond. From alex at tweedly.net Sat Oct 17 05:03:55 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:03:55 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> Naturally it must be removed. But I have a more philosophical issue / question. TSV (in and of itself) doesn't have any quotes, and so doesn't handle quoted CRs or TABs. Currently, the 'old' version - as in Richard's published article, doesn't handle TAB characters enclosed within a quoted cell. The 'new' version does - but only by returning the data delimited by instead of TAB, and leaving enclosed TABs alone - a mistake, IMHO. I believe that what the converter should do is : - return TSV - i.e. delimited by TABs - replace quoted CR by within quoted cells (as it does now) - replace quoted TABs by within quoted cells Any comments or suggestions ? Thanks Alex. On 17/10/2015 02:34, Mike Kerner wrote: > It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> Duh - replying to myself again :-) >> >> It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly >> generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional >> test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't >> get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra >> line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). >> >> -- Alex. >> >> >> On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >>> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >>> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >>> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >>> >>> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >>> statements) >>> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >>> before the parsing happens ? >>> >>> -- Alex. >>> >>> >>> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> >>>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>>> >>>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one >>>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which >>>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not >>>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>>> operational >>>>> when your friends arrive. >>>>> >>>>> Bob S >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>>> >>>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >>>>>> >>>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells >>>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever >>>>> they want. >>>>> >>>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>>>> >>>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>>> >>>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >>>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>>> jst do >>>>> all the translations .... >>>>> >>>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 08:36:08 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:36:08 +0300 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> On 17/10/15 07:03, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi All, > > I have almost complete a rustic parser > for SVG gradients, build on top of > Ian Macphail's SVGL: > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL > > For now, this rustic parser just works with > Inkscape Optimized SVGs... but > I want to know about other kinds of files > produced by SVG Editors that > you actually use. > > Now, I need that each of you (who want to use > SVG in your stacks) build a very simple SVG > with just two Rectangles and just two gradients: > A radial gradient and a linear Gradient > similar to this image, http://imgur.com/nYEuBLr > > Please, post a link to your SVG or just paste > the SVG source code in your message. > > Thanks in advance. > > Alejandro > > Hey, it would be nice if somebody other than me could stump up a couple of SVG images for Alejandro! They can be psoted here so they're all in one place: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25612&p=133054#p133054 Richmond. From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Sat Oct 17 09:16:48 2015 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:16:48 +0200 Subject: Difference between mobilesensorReading, mobileCurrentLocation and locationChanged Message-ID: <6D358EE1-B8DA-4D10-BEE4-8ACC0FE4726B@laposte.net> Hello I?m lost between these 3 methods to get GPS coordinates. Why the dictionary put as example : on locationChanged put mobileCurrentLocation() into theLocation updateMapPosition theLocation -- update the marker on the map showing the current location end locationChanged It is not redondant with on locationChanged pLatitude, pLongitude, pAltitude ? end locationChanged And if we want to get the coordinates manually, time to time, is mobileCurrentLocation() is a better way than mobilesensorReading(? location ?) ? Also, on android, it seem we cannot start a tracking, stop the tracking then start a new tracking some time later. It?s the first location that is returned? Except if we quit the app PS : the stack of the GPS lesson (compass-2) crash on android when you do that. (livecode 6.7.7) Thanks for your lights ! Ludovic From gbojsza at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 10:21:27 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:21:27 -0400 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory Message-ID: I am trying to open an existing SQLite database in memory. When I do this (or think I do this) I get a database connection ID but the it errors out when I try just to show the current data? On OS X Mavericks LC 8 DP4 *on* mouseUp *put* "/Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory:" into tDatabasePath *put* revOpenDatabase("sqlite", tDatabasePath, , , , ) into tDatabaseID *put* "Connection = " & tDatabaseID -- if I get an integer then a database connection has been made *put "SELECT * from Movies" into tSQL* *put* revDataFromQuery(tab,*return*,tDatabaseID,tSQL) into myresults *put* myresults revCloseDataBase tDatabaseID *end* mouseUp My output: Connection = 1 (shows I have a database connection) revdberr,Database Error: no such table: Movies Any suggestions? thanks, Glen From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 17 10:36:25 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 14:36:25 +0000 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You created a database but you didn't create any tables in it. You'll need to issue a CREATE TABLE command after opening the db. On Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:22 AM Glen Bojsza wrote: > I am trying to open an existing SQLite database in memory. > > When I do this (or think I do this) I get a database connection ID but the > it errors out when I try just to show the current data? > > On OS X Mavericks LC 8 DP4 > > *on* mouseUp > > *put* "/Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory:" into tDatabasePath > > *put* revOpenDatabase("sqlite", tDatabasePath, , , , ) into tDatabaseID > > *put* "Connection = " & tDatabaseID -- if I get an integer then a > database connection has been made > > *put "SELECT * from Movies" into tSQL* > > *put* revDataFromQuery(tab,*return*,tDatabaseID,tSQL) into myresults > > *put* myresults > > revCloseDataBase tDatabaseID > > *end* mouseUp > > > My output: > > Connection = 1 (shows I have a database connection) > > revdberr,Database Error: no such table: Movies > > > Any suggestions? > > thanks, > > Glen > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Oct 17 10:53:33 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:53:33 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I am going to put 4 on Git and have at it. 1) There are other assumptions being made, like assuming that the and don't appear in the incoming text. Instead of hardcoding the interim substitutions, determine what the interim substitutions are going to be (can also allow the user to specify them). Characters that we need to deal with are quote, ,, and comma. 2) In this version, you can specify the incoming column delimiter. Add the ability for the caller to specify the record delimiter before, the column and record delimiters after, and what substitutions are going to be used, after. For example, for embedded 's, perhaps the user wants <13> or even a string like a semicolon and a space On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Naturally it must be removed. > > But I have a more philosophical issue / question. > > > TSV (in and of itself) doesn't have any quotes, and so doesn't handle > quoted CRs or TABs. > > Currently, the 'old' version - as in Richard's published article, doesn't > handle TAB characters enclosed within a quoted cell. The 'new' version does > - but only by returning the data delimited by instead of TAB, and > leaving enclosed TABs alone - a mistake, IMHO. > > I believe that what the converter should do is : > - return TSV - i.e. delimited by TABs > - replace quoted CR by within quoted cells (as it does now) > - replace quoted TABs by within quoted cells > > Any comments or suggestions ? > > Thanks > Alex. > > > On 17/10/2015 02:34, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function >> >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> Duh - replying to myself again :-) >>> >>> It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly >>> generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional >>> test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't >>> get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra >>> line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). >>> >>> -- Alex. >>> >>> >>> On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >>>> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >>>> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >>>> >>>> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >>>> statements) >>>> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >>>> before the parsing happens ? >>>> >>>> -- Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> >>>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>>>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>>>> >>>>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>>>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it >>>>> one >>>>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, >>>>> which >>>>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>>>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is >>>>> not >>>>> >>>>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>>>> operational >>>>>> when your friends arrive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob S >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. >>>>>>> numtochar(29)) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the >>>>>> cells >>>>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or >>>>>> whatever >>>>>> they want. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>>>> >>>>>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not >>>>>> sure >>>>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>>>> jst do >>>>>> all the translations .... >>>>>> >>>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gbojsza at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 10:57:18 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:57:18 -0400 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think we have a disconnect... I want to open an existing database but in memory. You are saying that I opened a new database in memory but need to create tables in it. So I guess the question is better put: Can you open an existing base in memory if so how? If you can't open an existing database in memory then if you create a new one in memory can you copy the tables from an existing one into the database that is in memory? On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > You created a database but you didn't create any tables in it. You'll need > to issue a CREATE TABLE command after opening the db. > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:22 AM Glen Bojsza wrote: > > > I am trying to open an existing SQLite database in memory. > > > > When I do this (or think I do this) I get a database connection ID but > the > > it errors out when I try just to show the current data? > > > > On OS X Mavericks LC 8 DP4 > > > > *on* mouseUp > > > > *put* "/Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory:" into tDatabasePath > > > > *put* revOpenDatabase("sqlite", tDatabasePath, , , , ) into > tDatabaseID > > > > *put* "Connection = " & tDatabaseID -- if I get an integer then a > > database connection has been made > > > > *put "SELECT * from Movies" into tSQL* > > > > *put* revDataFromQuery(tab,*return*,tDatabaseID,tSQL) into myresults > > > > *put* myresults > > > > revCloseDataBase tDatabaseID > > > > *end* mouseUp > > > > > > My output: > > > > Connection = 1 (shows I have a database connection) > > > > revdberr,Database Error: no such table: Movies > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > thanks, > > > > Glen > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Oct 17 11:42:04 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 11:42:04 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I added it to my repository on GitHub if anyone wants to try to do this in Git. On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I am going to put 4 on Git and have at it. > > 1) There are other assumptions being made, like assuming that the and > don't appear in the incoming text. Instead of hardcoding the interim > substitutions, determine what the interim substitutions are going to be > (can also allow the user to specify them). Characters that we need to deal > with are quote, ,, and comma. > > 2) In this version, you can specify the incoming column delimiter. Add > the ability for the caller to specify the record delimiter before, the > column and record delimiters after, and what substitutions are going to be > used, after. For example, for embedded 's, perhaps the user wants <13> > or even a string like a semicolon and a space > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> Naturally it must be removed. >> >> But I have a more philosophical issue / question. >> >> >> TSV (in and of itself) doesn't have any quotes, and so doesn't handle >> quoted CRs or TABs. >> >> Currently, the 'old' version - as in Richard's published article, doesn't >> handle TAB characters enclosed within a quoted cell. The 'new' version does >> - but only by returning the data delimited by instead of TAB, and >> leaving enclosed TABs alone - a mistake, IMHO. >> >> I believe that what the converter should do is : >> - return TSV - i.e. delimited by TABs >> - replace quoted CR by within quoted cells (as it does now) >> - replace quoted TABs by within quoted cells >> >> Any comments or suggestions ? >> >> Thanks >> Alex. >> >> >> On 17/10/2015 02:34, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>> Duh - replying to myself again :-) >>>> >>>> It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly >>>> generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional >>>> test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't >>>> get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra >>>> line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). >>>> >>>> -- Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>> >>>> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >>>>> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >>>>> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >>>>> >>>>> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >>>>> statements) >>>>> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >>>>> before the parsing happens ? >>>>> >>>>> -- Alex. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>>> >>>>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>>>>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>>>>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it >>>>>> one >>>>>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, >>>>>> which >>>>>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>>>>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is >>>>>> not >>>>>> >>>>>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>>>>> operational >>>>>>> when your friends arrive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob S >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. >>>>>>>> numtochar(29)) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the >>>>>>> cells >>>>>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>>>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>>>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or >>>>>>> whatever >>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" >>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not >>>>>>> sure >>>>>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>>>>> jst do >>>>>>> all the translations .... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 12:15:13 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:15:13 +0300 Subject: LC 8 Property Inspector In-Reply-To: References: <561D24B0.4020604@fourthworld.com> <5dd8d0cf00f51696aa21ea917affb975@livecode.com> <5E62FF0B-DAB2-4A88-A504-15F68E35BF43@hyperactivesw.com> <561EBE1F.1010001@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <56227411.2020409@gmail.com> More: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25526&p=133078#p133078 Richmond. From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 17 12:25:51 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:25:51 -0700 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I should have looked at your syntax more closely. You can't open an existing database as an in memory database. If you want to open an in memory database, the revopendatabase syntax is revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") and it will be a brand new, empty database with no tables. The syntax you used would have created a disk database file named /Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory: with no tables in it, hence the error message you got. Hope that explains it better. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 7:57 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > I think we have a disconnect... > > I want to open an existing database but in memory. > > You are saying that I opened a new database in memory but need to create > tables in it. > > So I guess the question is better put: > > Can you open an existing base in memory if so how? > > If you can't open an existing database in memory then if you create a new > one in memory can you copy the tables from an existing one into the > database that is in memory? > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > You created a database but you didn't create any tables in it. You'll > need > > to issue a CREATE TABLE command after opening the db. > > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:22 AM Glen Bojsza wrote: > > > > > I am trying to open an existing SQLite database in memory. > > > > > > When I do this (or think I do this) I get a database connection ID but > > the > > > it errors out when I try just to show the current data? > > > > > > On OS X Mavericks LC 8 DP4 > > > > > > *on* mouseUp > > > > > > *put* "/Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory:" into tDatabasePath > > > > > > *put* revOpenDatabase("sqlite", tDatabasePath, , , , ) into > > tDatabaseID > > > > > > *put* "Connection = " & tDatabaseID -- if I get an integer then a > > > database connection has been made > > > > > > *put "SELECT * from Movies" into tSQL* > > > > > > *put* revDataFromQuery(tab,*return*,tDatabaseID,tSQL) into myresults > > > > > > *put* myresults > > > > > > revCloseDataBase tDatabaseID > > > > > > *end* mouseUp > > > > > > > > > My output: > > > > > > Connection = 1 (shows I have a database connection) > > > > > > revdberr,Database Error: no such table: Movies > > > > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > Glen > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gbojsza at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 12:42:10 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:42:10 -0400 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the clarification...this changes the direction I need to take. In creating an in memory database can you create one with a name? On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Sorry, I should have looked at your syntax more closely. > > You can't open an existing database as an in memory database. If you want > to open an in memory database, the revopendatabase syntax is > revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") and it will be a brand new, empty > database with no tables. The syntax you used would have created a disk > database file named /Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory: with no tables > in it, hence the error message you got. > > Hope that explains it better. > > > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 17 12:53:58 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:53:58 -0700 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56227D26.6000601@ahsoftware.net> On 10/17/2015 09:42 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > Thanks for the clarification...this changes the direction I need to take. > > In creating an in memory database can you create one with a name? Glen- sqlite works with data in memory. So if you open a disk database you'll be working in memory unless you explicitly save the file to disk. It sounds like that's what you want to do anyway, so don't worry about the :memory: stuff, just open and peruse the data. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From paul at researchware.com Sat Oct 17 12:54:43 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:54:43 -0400 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56227D53.8000804@researchware.com> On 10/17/2015 12:25 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Sorry, I should have looked at your syntax more closely. > > You can't open an existing database as an in memory database. If you want > to open an in memory database, the revopendatabase syntax is > revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") and it will be a brand new, empty > database with no tables. The syntax you used would have created a disk > database file named /Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory: with no tables > in it, hence the error message you got. > > Hope that explains it better. > Could you create a new, empty, in memory data base and open the disk based existing database and copy its contents to the new memory database? Does sqlLite provide any easy command for copying a database or the contents of a database to another? From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 17 12:55:07 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:55:07 -0700 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No, no name is available because you have to use ":memory" as the name to indicate it is an in-memory db. Maybe if you explain what it is you're trying to achieve, we can help more. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > Thanks for the clarification...this changes the direction I need to take. > > In creating an in memory database can you create one with a name? > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Sorry, I should have looked at your syntax more closely. > > > > You can't open an existing database as an in memory database. If you > want > > to open an in memory database, the revopendatabase syntax is > > revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") and it will be a brand new, empty > > database with no tables. The syntax you used would have created a disk > > database file named /Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory: with no > tables > > in it, hence the error message you got. > > > > Hope that explains it better. > > > > > > > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 17 13:03:32 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:03:32 -0700 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: <56227D53.8000804@researchware.com> References: <56227D53.8000804@researchware.com> Message-ID: You could but I can't think of a reason to do that offhand. As Mark said, most sqlite activity occurs in memory so unless you have a huge db that results in a lot of paging activity, you're basically working in memory anyway. If you really wanted to copy a disk based db to an in-memory db, you could use the CREATE TABLE AS option to copy each table over. It allows you specify a SELECT statement where the the named columns are created in the new table and the data for those columns is copied over from the selected table to the new one. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > On 10/17/2015 12:25 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Sorry, I should have looked at your syntax more closely. > > > > You can't open an existing database as an in memory database. If you > want > > to open an in memory database, the revopendatabase syntax is > > revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") and it will be a brand new, empty > > database with no tables. The syntax you used would have created a disk > > database file named /Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory: with no > tables > > in it, hence the error message you got. > > > > Hope that explains it better. > > > > Could you create a new, empty, in memory data base and open the disk > based existing database and copy its contents to the new memory > database? Does sqlLite provide any easy command for copying a database > or the contents of a database to another? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 13:07:05 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:07:05 -0700 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > In creating an in memory database can you create one with a name? > There really wouldn't be a point to that Once you open a database, Livecode refers to it by number, not name. New line there is no direct way to dump a database from memory to disk; you would have to use routines or selections to write from one to the other. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From gbojsza at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 13:12:59 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:12:59 -0400 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Essentially, I want to keep the database in its original form / content. While the user is running the app I want to be able to make changes to the database knowing that the changes are done in memory and will not be written to the original database. I could duplicate the database to a folder on the disk and then later remove it but if I can do it just in memory and it automatically cleans out after the user quits the app then it would be more convenient. For example, if I don't the user to be able to look into the database (which I believe can be done if it is written to disk) using in memory would be the way to go...true? On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > No, no name is available because you have to use ":memory" as the name to > indicate it is an in-memory db. > > Maybe if you explain what it is you're trying to achieve, we can help more. > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > > > Thanks for the clarification...this changes the direction I need to take. > > > > In creating an in memory database can you create one with a name? > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > > Sorry, I should have looked at your syntax more closely. > > > > > > You can't open an existing database as an in memory database. If you > > want > > > to open an in memory database, the revopendatabase syntax is > > > revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") and it will be a brand new, empty > > > database with no tables. The syntax you used would have created a disk > > > database file named /Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory: with no > > tables > > > in it, hence the error message you got. > > > > > > Hope that explains it better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > lcSQL Software > > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 17 14:56:53 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 11:56:53 -0700 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I assume this is a single user application? When you say you want to make changes to the database, do you mean the user makes changes to the data in the database using your application? If the disk version never changes then the next time the user runs your app, whatever changes they made last time around will be gone - is that OK? I'm not totally sure what you mean by "look into the database" but assume you mean using anything other than your application. There's always going to be ways to do that using any of the sqlite admin programs out there, unless you use one of the encryption add-ons for sqlite. If you want to continue down this path, then conceptually, here's one way to get the disk based db into an in memory version. 1. Open the in memory database which will be completely empty. 2. Use the ATTACH command to open the disk db over the same connection. Doing that involves assigning a name to identify the db which I'll assume is "diskdb". You'll use that in the next step. 3. For each table in the disk db, issue a CREATE TABLE AS command, which will look something like this: "CREATE main.TABLE Movies AS SELECT * FROM diskdb.Movies" 4. Issue the command DETACH DATABASE diskdb After that all your data will be in your in memory database and you can access it just as in any other db. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > Essentially, I want to keep the database in its original form / content. > > While the user is running the app I want to be able to make changes to the > database knowing that the changes are done in memory and will not be > written to the original database. > > I could duplicate the database to a folder on the disk and then later > remove it but if I can do it just in memory and it automatically cleans out > after the user quits the app then it would be more convenient. > > For example, if I don't the user to be able to look into the database > (which I believe can be done if it is written to disk) using in memory > would be the way to go...true? > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > No, no name is available because you have to use ":memory" as the name to > > indicate it is an in-memory db. > > > > Maybe if you explain what it is you're trying to achieve, we can help > more. > > > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > > > > > Thanks for the clarification...this changes the direction I need to > take. > > > > > > In creating an in memory database can you create one with a name? > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Peter Haworth > wrote: > > > > > > > Sorry, I should have looked at your syntax more closely. > > > > > > > > You can't open an existing database as an in memory database. If you > > > want > > > > to open an in memory database, the revopendatabase syntax is > > > > revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") and it will be a brand new, > empty > > > > database with no tables. The syntax you used would have created a > disk > > > > database file named /Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory: with no > > > tables > > > > in it, hence the error message you got. > > > > > > > > Hope that explains it better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > lcSQL Software > > > > Home of lcStackBrowser > and > > > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gbojsza at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 16:07:50 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:07:50 -0400 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Pete. I will play with this as it looks to be the way I want to go. On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I assume this is a single user application? When you say you want to make > changes to the database, do you mean the user makes changes to the data in > the database using your application? If the disk version never changes > then the next time the user runs your app, whatever changes they made last > time around will be gone - is that OK? > > I'm not totally sure what you mean by "look into the database" but assume > you mean using anything other than your application. There's always going > to be ways to do that using any of the sqlite admin programs out there, > unless you use one of the encryption add-ons for sqlite. > > If you want to continue down this path, then conceptually, here's one way > to get the disk based db into an in memory version. > > 1. Open the in memory database which will be completely empty. > 2. Use the ATTACH command to open the disk db over the same connection. > Doing that involves assigning a name to identify the db which I'll assume > is "diskdb". You'll use that in the next step. > 3. For each table in the disk db, issue a CREATE TABLE AS command, which > will look something like this: "CREATE main.TABLE Movies AS SELECT * FROM > diskdb.Movies" > 4. Issue the command DETACH DATABASE diskdb > > After that all your data will be in your in memory database and you can > access it just as in any other db. > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > > > Essentially, I want to keep the database in its original form / content. > > > > While the user is running the app I want to be able to make changes to > the > > database knowing that the changes are done in memory and will not be > > written to the original database. > > > > I could duplicate the database to a folder on the disk and then later > > remove it but if I can do it just in memory and it automatically cleans > out > > after the user quits the app then it would be more convenient. > > > > For example, if I don't the user to be able to look into the database > > (which I believe can be done if it is written to disk) using in memory > > would be the way to go...true? > > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > > No, no name is available because you have to use ":memory" as the name > to > > > indicate it is an in-memory db. > > > > > > Maybe if you explain what it is you're trying to achieve, we can help > > more. > > > > > > Pete > > > lcSQL Software > > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Glen Bojsza > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification...this changes the direction I need to > > take. > > > > > > > > In creating an in memory database can you create one with a name? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Peter Haworth > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I should have looked at your syntax more closely. > > > > > > > > > > You can't open an existing database as an in memory database. If > you > > > > want > > > > > to open an in memory database, the revopendatabase syntax is > > > > > revOpenDatabase("sqlite",":memory:") and it will be a brand new, > > empty > > > > > database with no tables. The syntax you used would have created a > > disk > > > > > database file named /Users/Dev/Documents/Ratings.db3:memory: with > no > > > > tables > > > > > in it, hence the error message you got. > > > > > > > > > > Hope that explains it better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > lcSQL Software > > > > > Home of lcStackBrowser > > and > > > > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthednet.org Sat Oct 17 18:31:41 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:31:41 -0700 Subject: Free date picker Message-ID: <1D893038-E3C3-4B7A-8490-3F53C1DB39D4@earthednet.org> Folks: In case you?re interested, here is a Date Picker made with a datagrid. Please let me know if you find any errors. I?m particularly interested in testing with international dates. Otherwise, please feel free to use it at your will. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1pyi3cs1obcroo9/datePicker.livecode?dl=0 Regards, Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 19:41:05 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:41:05 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> So here's my attempt. It converts a CVS text to an array. Let's see if there's csv data that can break it. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ------- function CSVtoArray pData -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com -- requires getDelimiters(), howmany() put getDelimiters(pData,5) into tDelims put line 1 of tDelims into crChar put line 2 of tDelims into tabChar put line 3 of tDelims into commaChar put line 4 of tDelims into openQuoteChar put line 5 of tDelims into closeQuoteChar replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX if howmany(quote,pData) mod 2 = 1 then return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in data)." end if put offsets(quote,pData) into qOffsets if qOffsets > 0 then put 1 into counter repeat for each item q in qOffsets if counter mod 2 = 1 then put openQuoteChar into char q of pData else put closeQuoteChar into char q of pData add 1 to counter end repeat end if put offsets(cr,pData) into crOffsets repeat for each item r in crOffsets put char 1 to r of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the cr is within a quoted string put crChar into char r of pData end if end repeat put offsets(tab,pData) into tabOffsets repeat for each item t in tabOffsets put char 1 to t of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the tab is within a quoted string put tabChar into char t of pData end if end repeat put offsets(comma,pData) into commaOffsets repeat for each item c in commaOffsets put char 1 to c of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the comma is within a quoted string put commaChar into char c of pData end if end repeat put 0 into lineCounter repeat for each line L in pData add 1 to lineCounter put 0 into itemCounter repeat for each item i in L add 1 to itemCounter put i into thisItem if howmany(quote,thisItem) mod 2 = 1 then return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." end if replace crChar with cr in thisItem replace tabChar with tab in thisItem replace commaChar with comma in thisItem replace openQuoteChar with quote in thisItem replace closeQuoteChar with quote in thisItem put thisItem into A[lineCounter][itemCounter] end repeat end repeat return A end CSVtoArray function getDelimiters pText, nbr -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters -- not found in the variable pText -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, etc. -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider -- etc. -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr put true into failed repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList put item i of baseList into testNbr put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar if testChar is not in pText then -- found one, store and get next delim put false into failed put testChar into line tCount of delimList exit repeat end if end repeat if failed then if tCount = 0 then return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." else if tCount = 1 then return "Error: can only get one delimiter." else return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." end if end if delete item i of baseList end repeat return delimList end getDelimiters function howmany pStr, pContainer, pCaseSens -- how many times pStr occurs in pContainer -- note that howmany("00","000000") returns 3, not 5 -- ie, overlapping matches are not counted -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if pCaseSens = empty then put false into pCaseSens set the casesensitive to pCaseSens if pStr is not in pContainer then return 0 put len(pContainer) into origLength replace pStr with char 2 to -1 of pStr in pContainer return origLength - len(pContainer) end howmany On Oct 17, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Naturally it must be removed. > > But I have a more philosophical issue / question. > > > TSV (in and of itself) doesn't have any quotes, and so doesn't handle quoted CRs or TABs. > > Currently, the 'old' version - as in Richard's published article, doesn't handle TAB characters enclosed within a quoted cell. The 'new' version does - but only by returning the data delimited by instead of TAB, and leaving enclosed TABs alone - a mistake, IMHO. > > I believe that what the converter should do is : > - return TSV - i.e. delimited by TABs > - replace quoted CR by within quoted cells (as it does now) > - replace quoted TABs by within quoted cells > > Any comments or suggestions ? > > Thanks > Alex. > > On 17/10/2015 02:34, Mike Kerner wrote: >> It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function >> >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >>> Duh - replying to myself again :-) >>> >>> It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly >>> generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional >>> test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't >>> get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra >>> line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). >>> >>> -- Alex. >>> >>> >>> On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >>>> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >>>> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >>>> >>>> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >>>> statements) >>>> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >>>> before the parsing happens ? >>>> >>>> -- Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> >>>>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>>>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>>>> >>>>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>>>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one >>>>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which >>>>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>>>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not >>>>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>>>> operational >>>>>> when your friends arrive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob S >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >>>>>>> >>>>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells >>>>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever >>>>>> they want. >>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>>>> >>>>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >>>>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>>>> jst do >>>>>> all the translations .... >>>>>> >>>>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Sat Oct 17 20:30:36 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:30:36 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5622E82C.8070808@tweedly.net> Hi Peter, it also requires offsets() - I can guess what it does, but it would be safer to get the actual code you use :-) Thanks -- Alex. On 18/10/2015 00:41, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > So here's my attempt. It converts a CVS text to an array. Let's see if there's csv data that can break it. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > ------- > > function CSVtoArray pData > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com > -- requires getDelimiters(), howmany() > put getDelimiters(pData,5) into tDelims > put line 1 of tDelims into crChar > put line 2 of tDelims into tabChar > put line 3 of tDelims into commaChar > put line 4 of tDelims into openQuoteChar > put line 5 of tDelims into closeQuoteChar > > replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX > replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX > > if howmany(quote,pData) mod 2 = 1 then > return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in data)." > end if > > put offsets(quote,pData) into qOffsets > if qOffsets > 0 then > put 1 into counter > repeat for each item q in qOffsets > if counter mod 2 = 1 then put openQuoteChar into char q of pData > else put closeQuoteChar into char q of pData > add 1 to counter > end repeat > end if > > put offsets(cr,pData) into crOffsets > repeat for each item r in crOffsets > put char 1 to r of pData into upToHere > if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then > -- the cr is within a quoted string > put crChar into char r of pData > end if > end repeat > put offsets(tab,pData) into tabOffsets > repeat for each item t in tabOffsets > put char 1 to t of pData into upToHere > if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then > -- the tab is within a quoted string > put tabChar into char t of pData > end if > end repeat > put offsets(comma,pData) into commaOffsets > repeat for each item c in commaOffsets > put char 1 to c of pData into upToHere > if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then > -- the comma is within a quoted string > put commaChar into char c of pData > end if > end repeat > put 0 into lineCounter > repeat for each line L in pData > add 1 to lineCounter > put 0 into itemCounter > repeat for each item i in L > add 1 to itemCounter > put i into thisItem > if howmany(quote,thisItem) mod 2 = 1 then > return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." > end if > replace crChar with cr in thisItem > replace tabChar with tab in thisItem > replace commaChar with comma in thisItem > replace openQuoteChar with quote in thisItem > replace closeQuoteChar with quote in thisItem > put thisItem into A[lineCounter][itemCounter] > end repeat > end repeat > return A > end CSVtoArray > > function getDelimiters pText, nbr > -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters > -- not found in the variable pText > -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, etc. > -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims > -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever > -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider > -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider > -- etc. > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > > if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." > if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter > put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList > -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. > put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr > if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." > repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr > put true into failed > repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList > put item i of baseList into testNbr > put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar > if testChar is not in pText then > -- found one, store and get next delim > put false into failed > put testChar into line tCount of delimList > exit repeat > end if > end repeat > if failed then > if tCount = 0 then > return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." > else if tCount = 1 then > return "Error: can only get one delimiter." > else > return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." > end if > end if > delete item i of baseList > end repeat > return delimList > end getDelimiters > > function howmany pStr, pContainer, pCaseSens > -- how many times pStr occurs in pContainer > -- note that howmany("00","000000") returns 3, not 5 > -- ie, overlapping matches are not counted > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > > if pCaseSens = empty then put false into pCaseSens > set the casesensitive to pCaseSens > if pStr is not in pContainer then return 0 > put len(pContainer) into origLength > replace pStr with char 2 to -1 of pStr in pContainer > return origLength - len(pContainer) > end howmany > > > On Oct 17, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> Naturally it must be removed. >> >> But I have a more philosophical issue / question. >> >> >> TSV (in and of itself) doesn't have any quotes, and so doesn't handle quoted CRs or TABs. >> >> Currently, the 'old' version - as in Richard's published article, doesn't handle TAB characters enclosed within a quoted cell. The 'new' version does - but only by returning the data delimited by instead of TAB, and leaving enclosed TABs alone - a mistake, IMHO. >> >> I believe that what the converter should do is : >> - return TSV - i.e. delimited by TABs >> - replace quoted CR by within quoted cells (as it does now) >> - replace quoted TABs by within quoted cells >> >> Any comments or suggestions ? >> >> Thanks >> Alex. >> >> On 17/10/2015 02:34, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>>> Duh - replying to myself again :-) >>>> >>>> It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly >>>> generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional >>>> test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't >>>> get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra >>>> line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). >>>> >>>> -- Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >>>>> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >>>>> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >>>>> >>>>> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >>>>> statements) >>>>> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >>>>> before the parsing happens ? >>>>> >>>>> -- Alex. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>>>>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>>>>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one >>>>>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which >>>>>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>>>>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not >>>>>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>>>>> operational >>>>>>> when your friends arrive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob S >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells >>>>>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>>>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>>>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever >>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >>>>>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>>>>> jst do >>>>>>> all the translations .... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Sat Oct 17 20:47:25 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:47:25 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> Ummm .... surely at this point .... repeat for each item i in L add 1 to itemCounter put i into thisItem if howmany(quote,thisItem) mod 2 = 1 then return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." end if ... howmany(quote,thisItem) must be 0 - all quotes have been replaced by either openQuoteChar or closeQuoteChar Shouldn't this test be if howmany(openQuoteChar, thisItem) <> howmany(closeUqoteChar, thisItem) then Also, I think (i.e. I haven't yet run the code, since I don't have offsets() available) there is another mis-formed case you don't properly detect : a,b,c,"def"""g"h",i,j,k The quoted cell contains the right number (i.e. a multiple of 2) of quotes, but they are not suitably adjacent, so they can't be properly interpreted as paired 'enclosed quotes'. (I should say, none of the earlier versions detect this either - their intent was to make the best feasible result from well-formed data, and not to detect all malformed cases - but if this version is going to detect and give error returns for error inputs in some cases, then we should try to do it fully). -- Alex. On 18/10/2015 00:41, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > So here's my attempt. It converts a CVS text to an array. Let's see if there's csv data that can break it. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > ------- > > function CSVtoArray pData > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com > -- requires getDelimiters(), howmany() > put getDelimiters(pData,5) into tDelims > put line 1 of tDelims into crChar > put line 2 of tDelims into tabChar > put line 3 of tDelims into commaChar > put line 4 of tDelims into openQuoteChar > put line 5 of tDelims into closeQuoteChar > > replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX > replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX > > if howmany(quote,pData) mod 2 = 1 then > return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in data)." > end if > > put offsets(quote,pData) into qOffsets > if qOffsets > 0 then > put 1 into counter > repeat for each item q in qOffsets > if counter mod 2 = 1 then put openQuoteChar into char q of pData > else put closeQuoteChar into char q of pData > add 1 to counter > end repeat > end if > > put offsets(cr,pData) into crOffsets > repeat for each item r in crOffsets > put char 1 to r of pData into upToHere > if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then > -- the cr is within a quoted string > put crChar into char r of pData > end if > end repeat > put offsets(tab,pData) into tabOffsets > repeat for each item t in tabOffsets > put char 1 to t of pData into upToHere > if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then > -- the tab is within a quoted string > put tabChar into char t of pData > end if > end repeat > put offsets(comma,pData) into commaOffsets > repeat for each item c in commaOffsets > put char 1 to c of pData into upToHere > if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then > -- the comma is within a quoted string > put commaChar into char c of pData > end if > end repeat > put 0 into lineCounter > repeat for each line L in pData > add 1 to lineCounter > put 0 into itemCounter > repeat for each item i in L > add 1 to itemCounter > put i into thisItem > if howmany(quote,thisItem) mod 2 = 1 then > return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." > end if > replace crChar with cr in thisItem > replace tabChar with tab in thisItem > replace commaChar with comma in thisItem > replace openQuoteChar with quote in thisItem > replace closeQuoteChar with quote in thisItem > put thisItem into A[lineCounter][itemCounter] > end repeat > end repeat > return A > end CSVtoArray > > function getDelimiters pText, nbr > -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters > -- not found in the variable pText > -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, etc. > -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims > -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever > -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider > -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider > -- etc. > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > > if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." > if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter > put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList > -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. > put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr > if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." > repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr > put true into failed > repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList > put item i of baseList into testNbr > put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar > if testChar is not in pText then > -- found one, store and get next delim > put false into failed > put testChar into line tCount of delimList > exit repeat > end if > end repeat > if failed then > if tCount = 0 then > return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." > else if tCount = 1 then > return "Error: can only get one delimiter." > else > return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." > end if > end if > delete item i of baseList > end repeat > return delimList > end getDelimiters > > function howmany pStr, pContainer, pCaseSens > -- how many times pStr occurs in pContainer > -- note that howmany("00","000000") returns 3, not 5 > -- ie, overlapping matches are not counted > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > > if pCaseSens = empty then put false into pCaseSens > set the casesensitive to pCaseSens > if pStr is not in pContainer then return 0 > put len(pContainer) into origLength > replace pStr with char 2 to -1 of pStr in pContainer > return origLength - len(pContainer) > end howmany > > > On Oct 17, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> Naturally it must be removed. >> >> But I have a more philosophical issue / question. >> >> >> TSV (in and of itself) doesn't have any quotes, and so doesn't handle quoted CRs or TABs. >> >> Currently, the 'old' version - as in Richard's published article, doesn't handle TAB characters enclosed within a quoted cell. The 'new' version does - but only by returning the data delimited by instead of TAB, and leaving enclosed TABs alone - a mistake, IMHO. >> >> I believe that what the converter should do is : >> - return TSV - i.e. delimited by TABs >> - replace quoted CR by within quoted cells (as it does now) >> - replace quoted TABs by within quoted cells >> >> Any comments or suggestions ? >> >> Thanks >> Alex. >> >> On 17/10/2015 02:34, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>>> Duh - replying to myself again :-) >>>> >>>> It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly >>>> generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional >>>> test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't >>>> get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra >>>> line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). >>>> >>>> -- Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >>>>> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >>>>> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >>>>> >>>>> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >>>>> statements) >>>>> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >>>>> before the parsing happens ? >>>>> >>>>> -- Alex. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>>>>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>>>>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one >>>>>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which >>>>>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>>>>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not >>>>>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>>>>> operational >>>>>>> when your friends arrive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob S >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells >>>>>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>>>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>>>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever >>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >>>>>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>>>>> jst do >>>>>>> all the translations .... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 20:47:35 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 20:47:35 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <5622E82C.8070808@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622E82C.8070808@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <44E32A02-E40A-4102-8F4F-8DB21C80894C@gmail.com> My mistake, failed to include the offsets() handler: -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ----------- function offsets str, pContainer -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer -- returns 0 if not found -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5" -- ie, overlapping offsets are not counted -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful) -- use "item -1 of offsets(...)" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if str is not in pContainer then return 0 put 0 into startPoint repeat put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat add thisOffset to startPoint put startPoint & comma after offsetList add length(str)-1 to startPoint end repeat return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma end offsets On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:30 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Hi Peter, > > it also requires offsets() - I can guess what it does, but it would be safer to get the actual code you use :-) > > Thanks > -- Alex. > > On 18/10/2015 00:41, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> So here's my attempt. It converts a CVS text to an array. Let's see if there's csv data that can break it. >> >> -- Peter >> >> Peter M. Brigham >> pmbrig at gmail.com >> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig >> >> ------- >> >> function CSVtoArray pData >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com >> -- requires getDelimiters(), howmany() >> put getDelimiters(pData,5) into tDelims >> put line 1 of tDelims into crChar >> put line 2 of tDelims into tabChar >> put line 3 of tDelims into commaChar >> put line 4 of tDelims into openQuoteChar >> put line 5 of tDelims into closeQuoteChar >> replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX >> replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX >> if howmany(quote,pData) mod 2 = 1 then >> return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in data)." >> end if >> put offsets(quote,pData) into qOffsets >> if qOffsets > 0 then >> put 1 into counter >> repeat for each item q in qOffsets >> if counter mod 2 = 1 then put openQuoteChar into char q of pData >> else put closeQuoteChar into char q of pData >> add 1 to counter >> end repeat >> end if >> put offsets(cr,pData) into crOffsets >> repeat for each item r in crOffsets >> put char 1 to r of pData into upToHere >> if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then >> -- the cr is within a quoted string >> put crChar into char r of pData >> end if >> end repeat >> put offsets(tab,pData) into tabOffsets >> repeat for each item t in tabOffsets >> put char 1 to t of pData into upToHere >> if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then >> -- the tab is within a quoted string >> put tabChar into char t of pData >> end if >> end repeat >> put offsets(comma,pData) into commaOffsets >> repeat for each item c in commaOffsets >> put char 1 to c of pData into upToHere >> if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then >> -- the comma is within a quoted string >> put commaChar into char c of pData >> end if >> end repeat >> put 0 into lineCounter >> repeat for each line L in pData >> add 1 to lineCounter >> put 0 into itemCounter >> repeat for each item i in L >> add 1 to itemCounter >> put i into thisItem >> if howmany(quote,thisItem) mod 2 = 1 then >> return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." >> end if >> replace crChar with cr in thisItem >> replace tabChar with tab in thisItem >> replace commaChar with comma in thisItem >> replace openQuoteChar with quote in thisItem >> replace closeQuoteChar with quote in thisItem >> put thisItem into A[lineCounter][itemCounter] >> end repeat >> end repeat >> return A >> end CSVtoArray >> >> function getDelimiters pText, nbr >> -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters >> -- not found in the variable pText >> -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, etc. >> -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims >> -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever >> -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider >> -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider >> -- etc. >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." >> if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter >> put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList >> -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. >> put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr >> if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." >> repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr >> put true into failed >> repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList >> put item i of baseList into testNbr >> put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar >> if testChar is not in pText then >> -- found one, store and get next delim >> put false into failed >> put testChar into line tCount of delimList >> exit repeat >> end if >> end repeat >> if failed then >> if tCount = 0 then >> return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." >> else if tCount = 1 then >> return "Error: can only get one delimiter." >> else >> return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." >> end if >> end if >> delete item i of baseList >> end repeat >> return delimList >> end getDelimiters >> >> function howmany pStr, pContainer, pCaseSens >> -- how many times pStr occurs in pContainer >> -- note that howmany("00","000000") returns 3, not 5 >> -- ie, overlapping matches are not counted >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> if pCaseSens = empty then put false into pCaseSens >> set the casesensitive to pCaseSens >> if pStr is not in pContainer then return 0 >> put len(pContainer) into origLength >> replace pStr with char 2 to -1 of pStr in pContainer >> return origLength - len(pContainer) >> end howmany >> >> >> On Oct 17, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >>> Naturally it must be removed. >>> >>> But I have a more philosophical issue / question. >>> >>> >>> TSV (in and of itself) doesn't have any quotes, and so doesn't handle quoted CRs or TABs. >>> >>> Currently, the 'old' version - as in Richard's published article, doesn't handle TAB characters enclosed within a quoted cell. The 'new' version does - but only by returning the data delimited by instead of TAB, and leaving enclosed TABs alone - a mistake, IMHO. >>> >>> I believe that what the converter should do is : >>> - return TSV - i.e. delimited by TABs >>> - replace quoted CR by within quoted cells (as it does now) >>> - replace quoted TABs by within quoted cells >>> >>> Any comments or suggestions ? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Alex. >>> >>> On 17/10/2015 02:34, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>> >>>>> Duh - replying to myself again :-) >>>>> >>>>> It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly >>>>> generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional >>>>> test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't >>>>> get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra >>>>> line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). >>>>> >>>>> -- Alex. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >>>>>> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >>>>>> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >>>>>> statements) >>>>>> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >>>>>> before the parsing happens ? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>>>>>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>>>>>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one >>>>>>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which >>>>>>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>>>>>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not >>>>>>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>>>>>> operational >>>>>>>> when your friends arrive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob S >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells >>>>>>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>>>>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>>>>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever >>>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>>>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>>>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >>>>>>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>>>>>> jst do >>>>>>>> all the translations .... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>>>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>>>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 20:56:51 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 20:56:51 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <6C9F99BC-86CE-4642-8600-261127A60502@gmail.com> Thanks for catching that. Change the if-then structure to: if howmany(openQuoteChar,thisItem) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,thisItem) then return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." end if Revised function: function CSVtoArray pData -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com -- requires getDelimiters(), howmany(), offsets() put getDelimiters(pData,5) into tDelims put line 1 of tDelims into crChar put line 2 of tDelims into tabChar put line 3 of tDelims into commaChar put line 4 of tDelims into openQuoteChar put line 5 of tDelims into closeQuoteChar replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX if howmany(quote,pData) mod 2 = 1 then return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in data)." end if put offsets(quote,pData) into qOffsets if qOffsets > 0 then put 1 into counter repeat for each item q in qOffsets if counter mod 2 = 1 then put openQuoteChar into char q of pData else put closeQuoteChar into char q of pData add 1 to counter end repeat end if put offsets(cr,pData) into crOffsets repeat for each item r in crOffsets put char 1 to r of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the cr is within a quoted string put crChar into char r of pData end if end repeat put offsets(tab,pData) into tabOffsets repeat for each item t in tabOffsets put char 1 to t of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the tab is within a quoted string put tabChar into char t of pData end if end repeat put offsets(comma,pData) into commaOffsets repeat for each item c in commaOffsets put char 1 to c of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the comma is within a quoted string put commaChar into char c of pData end if end repeat put 0 into lineCounter repeat for each line L in pData add 1 to lineCounter put 0 into itemCounter repeat for each item i in L add 1 to itemCounter put i into thisItem if howmany(openQuoteChar,thisItem) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,thisItem) then return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." end if replace crChar with cr in thisItem replace tabChar with tab in thisItem replace commaChar with comma in thisItem replace openQuoteChar with quote in thisItem replace closeQuoteChar with quote in thisItem put thisItem into A[lineCounter][itemCounter] end repeat end repeat return A end CSVtoArray ---------- -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:47 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Ummm .... surely at this point > > .... > > repeat for each item i in L > add 1 to itemCounter > put i into thisItem > if howmany(quote,thisItem) mod 2 = 1 then > return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." > end if > > ... > > howmany(quote,thisItem) must be 0 - all quotes have been replaced by either openQuoteChar or closeQuoteChar > > Shouldn't this test be > if howmany(openQuoteChar, thisItem) <> howmany(closeUqoteChar, thisItem) then > > > Also, I think (i.e. I haven't yet run the code, since I don't have offsets() available) there is another mis-formed case you don't properly detect : > a,b,c,"def"""g"h",i,j,k > > The quoted cell contains the right number (i.e. a multiple of 2) of quotes, but they are not suitably adjacent, so they can't be properly interpreted as paired 'enclosed quotes'. (I should say, none of the earlier versions detect this either - their intent was to make the best feasible result from well-formed data, and not to detect all malformed cases - but if this version is going to detect and give error returns for error inputs in some cases, then we should try to do it fully). > > -- Alex. > > > On 18/10/2015 00:41, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> So here's my attempt. It converts a CVS text to an array. Let's see if there's csv data that can break it. >> >> -- Peter >> >> Peter M. Brigham >> pmbrig at gmail.com >> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig >> >> ------- >> >> function CSVtoArray pData >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com >> -- requires getDelimiters(), howmany() >> put getDelimiters(pData,5) into tDelims >> put line 1 of tDelims into crChar >> put line 2 of tDelims into tabChar >> put line 3 of tDelims into commaChar >> put line 4 of tDelims into openQuoteChar >> put line 5 of tDelims into closeQuoteChar >> replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX >> replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX >> if howmany(quote,pData) mod 2 = 1 then >> return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in data)." >> end if >> put offsets(quote,pData) into qOffsets >> if qOffsets > 0 then >> put 1 into counter >> repeat for each item q in qOffsets >> if counter mod 2 = 1 then put openQuoteChar into char q of pData >> else put closeQuoteChar into char q of pData >> add 1 to counter >> end repeat >> end if >> put offsets(cr,pData) into crOffsets >> repeat for each item r in crOffsets >> put char 1 to r of pData into upToHere >> if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then >> -- the cr is within a quoted string >> put crChar into char r of pData >> end if >> end repeat >> put offsets(tab,pData) into tabOffsets >> repeat for each item t in tabOffsets >> put char 1 to t of pData into upToHere >> if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then >> -- the tab is within a quoted string >> put tabChar into char t of pData >> end if >> end repeat >> put offsets(comma,pData) into commaOffsets >> repeat for each item c in commaOffsets >> put char 1 to c of pData into upToHere >> if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then >> -- the comma is within a quoted string >> put commaChar into char c of pData >> end if >> end repeat >> put 0 into lineCounter >> repeat for each line L in pData >> add 1 to lineCounter >> put 0 into itemCounter >> repeat for each item i in L >> add 1 to itemCounter >> put i into thisItem >> if howmany(quote,thisItem) mod 2 = 1 then >> return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." >> end if >> replace crChar with cr in thisItem >> replace tabChar with tab in thisItem >> replace commaChar with comma in thisItem >> replace openQuoteChar with quote in thisItem >> replace closeQuoteChar with quote in thisItem >> put thisItem into A[lineCounter][itemCounter] >> end repeat >> end repeat >> return A >> end CSVtoArray >> >> function getDelimiters pText, nbr >> -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters >> -- not found in the variable pText >> -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, etc. >> -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims >> -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever >> -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider >> -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider >> -- etc. >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." >> if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter >> put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList >> -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. >> put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr >> if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." >> repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr >> put true into failed >> repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList >> put item i of baseList into testNbr >> put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar >> if testChar is not in pText then >> -- found one, store and get next delim >> put false into failed >> put testChar into line tCount of delimList >> exit repeat >> end if >> end repeat >> if failed then >> if tCount = 0 then >> return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." >> else if tCount = 1 then >> return "Error: can only get one delimiter." >> else >> return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." >> end if >> end if >> delete item i of baseList >> end repeat >> return delimList >> end getDelimiters >> >> function howmany pStr, pContainer, pCaseSens >> -- how many times pStr occurs in pContainer >> -- note that howmany("00","000000") returns 3, not 5 >> -- ie, overlapping matches are not counted >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> if pCaseSens = empty then put false into pCaseSens >> set the casesensitive to pCaseSens >> if pStr is not in pContainer then return 0 >> put len(pContainer) into origLength >> replace pStr with char 2 to -1 of pStr in pContainer >> return origLength - len(pContainer) >> end howmany >> >> >> On Oct 17, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >>> Naturally it must be removed. >>> >>> But I have a more philosophical issue / question. >>> >>> >>> TSV (in and of itself) doesn't have any quotes, and so doesn't handle quoted CRs or TABs. >>> >>> Currently, the 'old' version - as in Richard's published article, doesn't handle TAB characters enclosed within a quoted cell. The 'new' version does - but only by returning the data delimited by instead of TAB, and leaving enclosed TABs alone - a mistake, IMHO. >>> >>> I believe that what the converter should do is : >>> - return TSV - i.e. delimited by TABs >>> - replace quoted CR by within quoted cells (as it does now) >>> - replace quoted TABs by within quoted cells >>> >>> Any comments or suggestions ? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Alex. >>> >>> On 17/10/2015 02:34, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> It's safe as long as you remember to remove it at the end of the function >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>> >>>>> Duh - replying to myself again :-) >>>>> >>>>> It looks as though that's exactly what you do mean - it certainly >>>>> generates the problems you described earlier. And my one-line additional >>>>> test would (does in my testing) solve it properly - without it, we don't >>>>> get a chance to flush "theInsideStringSoFar" to tNuData, with the extra >>>>> line we do. And adding it is always safe (AFAICI). >>>>> >>>>> -- Alex. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 17/10/2015 00:03, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, Mike, but can you describe what you mean by a "naked" line ? >>>>>> Is it simply one with no line delimiter after it ? >>>>>> i.e. could only happen on the very last line of a file of input ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Could that be solved by a simple test (after the various 'replace' >>>>>> statements) >>>>>> if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData >>>>>> before the parsing happens ? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 16/10/2015 17:19, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> No, the problem isn't that LC use LF and CR for ascii(10) and ignores >>>>>>> ascii(13). That's just a personal problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem, here, is that the csv parser handles a naked line and a >>>>>>> terminated line differently. If the line is terminated, it parses it one >>>>>>> way, and if it is not, it parses it (incorrectly) a different way, which >>>>>>> makes me wonder if this is the latest version. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bob Sneidar < >>>>>>> bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But what if the cr or lf or crlf is inside quoted text, meaning it is not >>>>>>>> a delimiter? Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite >>>>>>>> operational >>>>>>>> when your friends arrive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob S >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 08:04 , Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> thanks for that additional info. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I *think* (it's been 3 years) I left them as (i.e. numtochar(29)) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> because I had some data including normal TAB characters within the cells >>>>>>>> (!!( and thought was a safer bet - though of course nothing is >>>>>>>> completely safe. It's then up to the caller to decide whether to do >>>>>>>> "replace numtochar(29) with TAB in ...", or do TAB escaping, or whatever >>>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for the other bigger problem .... Oh dear = CR vs LF vs CRLF .... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you on Mac or Windows or Linux ? >>>>>>>>> How is the LF delimited data getting into your app ? >>>>>>>>> Maybe we should just add a "replace chartonum(13) with CR in pData" ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (I confess to being confused by this - I know that LC does >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> auto-translation of line delimiters at various places, but I'm not sure >>>>>>>> when it is, or isn't, completely safe. Maybe the easiest thing is to >>>>>>>> jst do >>>>>>>> all the translations .... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> replace CRLF with CR in pData >>>>>>>>> replace numtochar(10) with CR in pData >>>>>>>>> replace numtochar(13) with CR in pData >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Alex. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 17 20:56:39 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:56:39 -0700 Subject: LC8 Missing Dictionary entries Message-ID: The propertynames includes loadExtensions and mirrored but there are no dictionary entries for them. Anyone know what they are? Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 21:24:14 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 21:24:14 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:47 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Also, I think (i.e. I haven't yet run the code, since I don't have offsets() available) there is another mis-formed case you don't properly detect : > a,b,c,"def"""g"h",i,j,k if I put this as one of the lines of my CSV data, it gets sorted into the array properly. I think. That is, the 4th item of the line is "def"""g"h" Do you get the same result? -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Oct 17 22:04:09 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 22:04:09 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think that item is odd. Quotes are, if memory serves, only supposed to appear if they are double-quoted. Between "f" and "g" you have three quotes, and between "g" and "h" you only have one. I believe that is not a correct csv format. On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:47 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > > Also, I think (i.e. I haven't yet run the code, since I don't have > offsets() available) there is another mis-formed case you don't properly > detect : > > a,b,c,"def"""g"h",i,j,k > > if I put this as one of the lines of my CSV data, it gets sorted into the > array properly. I think. That is, the 4th item of the line is > > "def"""g"h" > > Do you get the same result? > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Oct 17 22:05:12 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 22:05:12 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> Message-ID: The other thing that we are going to be interested in is finding the fastest function that performs the task. On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:04 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I think that item is odd. Quotes are, if memory serves, only supposed to > appear if they are double-quoted. Between "f" and "g" you have three > quotes, and between "g" and "h" you only have one. I believe that is not a > correct csv format. > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Peter M. Brigham > wrote: > >> On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:47 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> > Also, I think (i.e. I haven't yet run the code, since I don't have >> offsets() available) there is another mis-formed case you don't properly >> detect : >> > a,b,c,"def"""g"h",i,j,k >> >> if I put this as one of the lines of my CSV data, it gets sorted into the >> array properly. I think. That is, the 4th item of the line is >> >> "def"""g"h" >> >> Do you get the same result? >> >> -- Peter >> >> Peter M. Brigham >> pmbrig at gmail.com >> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 22:17:20 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 22:17:20 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> Message-ID: <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> At this point, finding a function that does the task at all -- reliably and taking into account most of the csv malformations we can anticipate -- would be a start. So far nothing has been unbreakable. Once we find an algorithm that does the job, we can focus on speeding it up. That said, I don't know that my solution is optimized for speed very well. It takes 4-5 seconds to process a 986 record file. On an old slow machine, a 2008 MacBook 2.1 GHz Intel Core Duo, but still?. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Oct 17, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > The other thing that we are going to be interested in is finding the > fastest function that performs the task. > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:04 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> I think that item is odd. Quotes are, if memory serves, only supposed to >> appear if they are double-quoted. Between "f" and "g" you have three >> quotes, and between "g" and "h" you only have one. I believe that is not a >> correct csv format. >> >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Peter M. Brigham >> wrote: >> >>> On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:47 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>>> Also, I think (i.e. I haven't yet run the code, since I don't have >>> offsets() available) there is another mis-formed case you don't properly >>> detect : >>>> a,b,c,"def"""g"h",i,j,k >>> >>> if I put this as one of the lines of my CSV data, it gets sorted into the >>> array properly. I think. That is, the 4th item of the line is >>> >>> "def"""g"h" >>> >>> Do you get the same result? >>> >>> -- Peter >>> >>> Peter M. Brigham >>> pmbrig at gmail.com >>> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Oct 17 23:24:47 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:24:47 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Peter, You're absolutely right, of course. While we're at it, it would be interesting to see what we come up with if we write it for LCB's modules... On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > At this point, finding a function that does the task at all -- reliably > and taking into account most of the csv malformations we can anticipate -- > would be a start. So far nothing has been unbreakable. Once we find an > algorithm that does the job, we can focus on speeding it up. > > That said, I don't know that my solution is optimized for speed very well. > It takes 4-5 seconds to process a 986 record file. On an old slow machine, > a 2008 MacBook 2.1 GHz Intel Core Duo, but still?. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > On Oct 17, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > The other thing that we are going to be interested in is finding the > > fastest function that performs the task. > > > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 10:04 PM, Mike Kerner > > > wrote: > > > >> I think that item is odd. Quotes are, if memory serves, only supposed > to > >> appear if they are double-quoted. Between "f" and "g" you have three > >> quotes, and between "g" and "h" you only have one. I believe that is > not a > >> correct csv format. > >> > >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Peter M. Brigham > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:47 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >>> > >>>> Also, I think (i.e. I haven't yet run the code, since I don't have > >>> offsets() available) there is another mis-formed case you don't > properly > >>> detect : > >>>> a,b,c,"def"""g"h",i,j,k > >>> > >>> if I put this as one of the lines of my CSV data, it gets sorted into > the > >>> array properly. I think. That is, the 4th item of the line is > >>> > >>> "def"""g"h" > >>> > >>> Do you get the same result? > >>> > >>> -- Peter > >>> > >>> Peter M. Brigham > >>> pmbrig at gmail.com > >>> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 18 01:16:35 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 16:16:35 +1100 Subject: iOS Simulator crashes with externals Message-ID: <0B2E58F8-7AF1-4A81-B91E-F13B3D2680C1@sweattechnologies.com> Hi LiveCoders I?m just making you all aware of an issue introduced in the recent releases of LiveCode where apps crash in the simulator if they have externals. The issue is a result of a change in the standalone builder. If you experience this issue there is an easy workaround which you can apply: edit the script of stack ?revSaveAsiOSStandalone? Find the command symlinkRedirect Insert the following as the first line of the command: if there is a file pTarget then exit symlinkRedirect I?ll take this opportunity to remind people of the special running on mergExt Complete for the rest of the month. 3 years of access to updates for $499 and the first 5 get an extra 6 months. http://mergext .com/special Cheers Monte -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 01:29:19 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:29:19 +0800 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > I pondered 'is exactly' for the 'is really' semantics... I'm wondering > whether 'is strictly' is perhaps most appropriate I've come to this topic late but I'm wondering if all these language additions aren't making it all the more complex. What about an alternative approach of using a property to turn 'strictness' on or off, in much the same way as caseSensitive is used. Although instead of true or false the 'strictCompare' property may have to be tri-level and obviously default back to 0 (highest level of coercion) at the end of a handler. The benefit is that you don't have to remember all those subtle syntax variations. set the strictCompare to 0 --current default level of coercion put 1 = "1.0" --true put 1 = 1.0 --true put 0.1 = "0.1" --true put "1.0" is a number --true put "0.1" is a number --true put "1.0" is an integer --true put "0.1" is an integer --false put "THIS" = "this" --true set the strictCompare to 1 --strings are strings, numbers are numbers, but values are coerced put 1 = "1.0" --false - number vs string put 1 = 1.0 --true - value is the same put 0.1 = "0.1" --false number vs string put "1.0" is a number --false it's a string put "0.1" is a number --false it's a string put "1.0" is an integer --false it's a string put "0.1" is an integer --false it's a string put "THIS" = "this" --true * --basic value is the same set the strictCompare to 2 --by-passing all type-coercion put 1 = "1.0" --false - number vs string put 1 = 1.0 --false - not exactly the same put 0.1 = "0.1" --false number vs string put "1.0" is a number --false put "0.1" is a number --false put "1.0" is an integer --false put "0.1" is an integer --false put "THIS" = "this" --false -exact value not the same * * strictCompare 1 would leave caseSensitive set at false so basic string values can be compared as is, but at strictCompare 2 the caseSensitive would be set to true so all comparisons of exactness return a logical result. Some edge cases: set the strictCompare to 0 put 0.1 = .1 --true -value is the same put .1 is a number --true put 1. is a number --true put 1.0 is an integer --true put 0.1 is an integer --false put .1 is a number --true put 1. is an integer --true set the strictCompare to 1 --without a preceding or trailing 0 . is coerced to a period ** put 0.1 = .1 --false - number vs string put .1 is a number --false --it's a string put 1. is a number --false --it's a string put 1.0 is an integer --true as it's coerced to 1, 1 = 1.0 put 0.1 is an integer --false put .1 is a number --false --it's a string put 1. is an integer --false --it's a string set the strictCompare to 2 --without a preceding or trailing 0 . is coerced to a period ** put 0.1 = .1 --false - number vs string put .1 is a number --false --it's a string put 1. is a number --false --it's a string put 1.0 is an integer --false, it's a number with a fractional part, 1 <> 1.0 put 0.1 is an integer --false put .1 is a number --false, it's a string. put 1. is an integer --false, it's a string. ** The reason in my mind that . should be considered a period in 'strict' mode (2 or 1) is that in the vast majority of text that might be parsed, if it's come in (via a spreadsheet or some other means) as a number it will have preceding or trailing zeros if there is a decimal point and clearly be a number; otherwise it would be as part of a chunk of text: 1. A 3 item list 2. Now there are 2. 3. The last item. LC already provides a way for us to easily extract the value of these numbers out of the chunk of text, but only by strictCompare set to 0 or 1 would it be possible to easily determine that these numbers are in fact just strings in amongst words as part of lines of strings. There is no "is a string" function - and I'm not suggesting there should be - but just because 'is a number' returns false can be used to assume you have a string, it will also give you false positives. So in the list above 'word 3 of line 1 is a number' should return false if strictCompare is set to 2 or 1 because strictly the whole lot is stored as a string so the 3 in 'A 3 item list' even without a preceding or trailing . is still a string. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 01:56:15 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:56:15 +0800 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: References: <7ad6ceabc95faef2f2cc569421a546bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > but only by strictCompare set to 0 or 1 would it be possible to easily > determine that these numbers are in fact just strings in amongst words as > part of lines of strings. > Should read: but only by strctCompare set to 2 or 1 would it be... From capellan2000 at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 02:13:56 2015 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi all, Many Thanks for posting your SVG files. :D After reading the source of all files posted, I have reached a decision: Before building a General Parser to import every type of SVG available, I will complete some very specific scripts to import SVG from Inkscape and Ilustrator and any other app that you could provide me with enough sample files to study. Richmond, please send me the same SVG saved from Ilustrator, but this time use color transparency like SVGs created using Inkscape. Thanks in advance! Alejandro -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-SVG-Test-files-tp4697613p4697649.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 02:26:46 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:26:46 +0800 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > At this point, finding a function that does the task at all -- reliably > and taking into account most of the csv malformations we can anticipate -- > would be a start. Actually, having a standard mutant csv file to work on would be a start. Probably two files, a plain text file that needs to fed fed into the algo and a pdf version which shows exactly how the data is suppose to appear. What are people using for their example file? We need to check it contains all possible mutations. From hh at livecode.org Sun Oct 18 05:03:22 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (-hh) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:03:22 +0200 Subject: scaleFactor strangeness Message-ID: [Sorry for the late answer, couldn't login to jasmine for a while.] @Mark Your explanations, quoted below, are so valuable that they should remain also readable for non-math people (that don't have a math-involved university degree). So let us go back for a while from some general writing in transformation matrices to a simple real number. Also let us look only at the single (PROPORTIONAL) SCALEFACTOR, not split into a first-coord and second-coord one. [Example 1] > This handler would still function regardless of the transform of > the graphic containing it. Indeed, if co-ordinates are delivered to > it in the target object's local co-ordinate system - then it does. > on mouseMove pX, pY > if pX < item 1 of the loc of me then > if pY < item 2 of the loc of me then > set the backColor of me to red > else > set the backColor of me to green > end if > else > if pY < item 2 of the loc of me then > set the backColor of me to blue > else > set the backColor of me to orange > end if > end if > end mouseMove [Example 2] > However, here is a handler which would not work fine in this instance: > on mouseMove pX, pY > if pY < the top of me + 20 then > set the backColor of me to red > else if pY > the bottom of me - 20 then > set the backColor of me to green > else > set the backColor of me to blue > end if > end mouseMove For me there is no difference in coords between Examples 1 and 2. If all coords are in card-space then absolute values (like 20) are too. This is definable and should be defined this way. If a user means 20 pixels in the object-space (although pX and the top of me are in card-space) then it can be adjusted: if pY < the top of me + 20*SF(me) If a scripter doesn't touch default scalefactors, then SF(me) of an object is one and has no scaling effect, similar with SF(the target). I personally would prefer and use your general approach of affine transforms but the simple "scalefactor" of objects is easy to understand, also for beginners. We have the total scalefactor for objects that are direct on card level: TSF(object)=SF(stack)*SF(card)*SF(object) If we now set SF(card)=1/SF(stack), then we have everything in usual local card coords, the display remains the same, but we can by emulating your usual adjusting of SF(stack) look at an emulated device display --- PMDE (poor man's device emulator). From your other considerations regarding 'loc', 'left', 'top', 'right', 'bottom', 'width' and 'height' I can see, that you are nearly done, you could now write the (general transform) code right out of your brain. Let me repeat in my words to see if I got it all and give one more definition. We have the following kind of points: * appPoints (x,y) = point on physical device = pixel (x,y) Now define: the stack is owned by the application and * relativePoint (x,y) = pixel (x,y) relative to the topleft of object * ownerPoint (x,y) = pixel (x,y) relative to the topleft of object's owner Of course: ownerPoints(object) = relativePoints(owner of object) So, without scaling: * ownerPoints(stack) = the app's coords (may tranform to other screen) * ownerPoints(card) = the usual global coords * ownerPoints(object on card) = the usual local coords * ownerPoints(object in group) = relativePoints(group) Now respect scalefactors: * ownerPoints(stack) are handled by the engine only * ownerPoints(card) = global coords scaled by TSF(stack) * ownerPoints(object on card) = local coords scaled by TSF(card) * ownerPoints(object in group) = local coords scaled by TSF(group) * relativePoints(object in group) = local coords scaled by TSF(object) here is TSF(object) = (SF of owners along owner path)*SF(object) and again ownerPoints(object in group) = relativePoints(group) Most of scaling would be done down to the owner of an object only, I presume. For example working within a group with relative group coords and then simply setting SF(group) would be very attractive. That's why I would miss ownerPoints. What's new then? A further property for each object. And some simple transforms that respect the scalefactors along the owner path, and are affine transformations ;-) object2group, object2card, card2stack, substack2stack group2object, card2object, stack2card, stack2substack > Of course there is a gulf between having an idea that might work and > implementing it in the engine - the lack of floating point co-ordinates > is going to be a huge issue here I think One could work always with floating points? Then let the engine round, not before the very end of calculations, whenever an integer is needed? > The 'visibleRect' of a stack is at least feasible in the near term > - which at least gives zoom and panning at the card-level if not at > the individual object level. This is a great feature. And with this, apart from clipping to the stacks's window, we have already scalefactor(card) available, isn't it? FEATURE REQUEST =====> the objectPoint(x,y) = relativePoint(x,y) in object space would be a very welcome feature just now. It's your idea, please don't throw it away. Thank you very much for your explanations. Kind regards, Hermann [This is an ad] on preopenstack -- poor man's golden ratio emulating device set scaleFactor of this stack to (sqrt(5)+1)/2 set scaleFactor of this card to 1/the scaleFactor of this stack end preopenstack > On 2015-10-15 19:42, hh wrote: > > Not really, if you mean affine transform. Translation destroys the > > wonderful > > commutativity you have with my proposal: If you interchange objects in > > the > > owner path/message path before a target then this has no effect on the > > total > > scalefactor of this target. And you know the "inverse" operation as a > > function! > > Beside the usual rounding effects I can see no problem with that at the > > moment. > > I'm not sure I follow - commutativity makes no difference in this > instance - you only need invertibility and associativity. Affine > transforms can be represented as matrices and matrix multiplication is > associative, and non-degenerate matrices have inverses - thus you can > replace any scale operation in your proposal with an arbitrary > (invertible) matrix representing an affine transform. > > Indeed, in that light, what you propose is precisely the same as the > idea of every object being able to have a transform property (if not set > it is the identity) - the total transform of a nested object is the > multiplication of all the ancestor transforms. This is how most UI > toolkits (which allow arbitrary affine transforms) work and from a > rendering point of view poses no problem. > > > The stack (and it's view) is the global object and handles with the OS > > and > > the hardware (you have a lot of pretty things already realized for us). > > Everything in the stack is in local coords. > > Yes - this is how it is at the moment - you can translate between local > (card-relative) and global (screen-relative) using localLoc and > globalLoc functions. > > > The mouseLoc etc. is scaled by TSF(mouse) = > > SF(stack)*SF(card)*SF(mouse). > > We don't have to care about such things, you do in the engine. > > And it is scripter's problem to ask for the total scalefactor ('TSF') > > of objects. > > Okay - so you suggest that any co-ordinates coming from the engine > remain in card-space - where card-space is the top-level transform. > > This does mean that script will have to explicitly deal with all > co-ordinate transforms. So let's say you have a mouseMove handler in a > graphic which uses the location of the mouse within itself to change its > color: > > on mouseMove pX, pY > if pX < item 1 of the loc of me then > if pY < item 2 of the loc of me then > set the backColor of me to red > else > set the backColor of me to green > end if > else > if pY < item 2 of the loc of me then > set the backColor of me to blue > else > set the backColor of me to orange > end if > end if > end mouseMove > > In an ideal world, this handler would still function regardless of the > transform of the graphic containing it. Indeed, if co-ordinates are > delivered to it in the target object's local co-ordinate system - then > it does. > > However, for arbitrary transforms where the pX, pY is kept in the card > co-ordinate system it cannot - the reason for this is that under an > arbitrary affine transform a rectangle which is parallel on both sides > to the pixel grid may cease to be parallel to the pixel grid which means > that geometry changes (when doing things extrinsically from the target > object, at least). > > Now, it is clear that if you restrict the transform to scale (and > translation) then because such things preserve rectangles in both > orientation and alignment relative to the pixel grid any non-size > related geometry conditions you code remain correct - so the above > handler would work fine. > > However, here is a handler which would not work fine in this instance: > > on mouseMove pX, pY > if pY < the top of me + 20 then > set the backColor of me to red > else if pY > the bottom of me - 20 then > set the backColor of me to green > else > set the backColor of me to blue > end if > end mouseMove > > Under a 'keep everything at the card-space' model - this code breaks as > the scale of the target object changes. This is because the handler is > dependent on a size (20) which is relative to the object's innate size > rather than its scaled size. So, for this handler to work (even in a > restricted, scale/translate only transform model) the script would need > to be amended: > > on mouseMove pX, pY > if pY < the top of me + 20 * the effective yScale of me then > set the backColor of me to red > else if pY > the bottom of me - 20 * the effective xScale of me then > set the backColor of me to green > else > set the backColor of me to blue > end if > end mouseMove > > Thus, in reality, keeping things in 'card-level' co-ordinate system and > only allowing scale/translation makes no difference to the requirements > on code. For general scripts which manipulate co-ordinates in anything > other than very simple ways, you still have to explicitly take into > account the potential effects of transformation thus, at the end of the > day, you might as well allow arbitrary affine transforms since the code > burden is identical. For example, the above modified code works if only > scaling is allowing, however the code for the case of arbitrary > transforms would be something like: > > on mouseMove pX, pY > local tY > put item 2 of objectLoc(pX, pY) into tY > if tY < 20 then > set the backColor of me to red > else if tY > the relative height of me - 20 then > set the backColor of me to green > else > set the backColor of me to blue > end if > end mouseMove > > Here, I'm assuming a function 'objectLoc' which transforms a point from > card-space to object-space (object-space being defined by the > concatenation of transforms from itself up to the card). I'm also > assuming that 'loc', 'left', 'top', 'right', 'bottom', 'width' and > 'height' have 'relative' adjectives which return them in object-space, > rather than card-space. > > Perhaps an 'objectLoc' idea and arbitrary affine transforms are not > something to be concerned about. If you use transforms you might have to > do some co-ordinate juggling, if you are writing controls which you want > to be used generally - again, you might have to do some co-ordinate > juggling. The rule is just that if passing co-ordinates between objects > (unless there is a prior agreement), you need to keep things in > card-space and let the code in the target objects do the appropriate > transform. > > Of course there is a gulf between having an idea that might work and > implementing it in the engine - the lack of floating point co-ordinates > is going to be a huge issue here I think... The 'visibleRect' of a stack > is at least feasible in the near term - which at least gives zoom and > panning at the card-level if not at the individual object level. > > Plenty to think about! > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 05:05:54 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:05:54 +0300 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <562360F2.3080700@gmail.com> On 18/10/15 09:13, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi all, > > Many Thanks for posting your SVG files. :D > > After reading the source of all files posted, > I have reached a decision: > > Before building a General Parser to import > every type of SVG available, I will complete > some very specific scripts to import SVG > from Inkscape and Ilustrator and any other > app that you could provide me with enough > sample files to study. > > Richmond, please send me the same SVG > saved from Ilustrator, but this time use > color transparency like SVGs created > using Inkscape. To be honest with you I don't seem to be able to work out how to do that with Illustrator CS2 Richmond. > > Thanks in advance! > > Alejandro > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-SVG-Test-files-tp4697613p4697649.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 05:31:41 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:31:41 +0300 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> On 18/10/15 09:13, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi all, > > Many Thanks for posting your SVG files. :D > > After reading the source of all files posted, > I have reached a decision: > > Before building a General Parser to import > every type of SVG available, I will complete > some very specific scripts to import SVG > from Inkscape and Ilustrator and any other > app that you could provide me with enough > sample files to study. > > Richmond, please send me the same SVG > saved from Ilustrator, but this time use > color transparency like SVGs created > using Inkscape. > > Thanks in advance! > > Alejandro > > " Unfortunately, in Illustrator you cannot create a gradient that goes from a color to transparent as you can in Photoshop." Just spent an hour digging for that! Possibly that came in later versions of Illustrator ???? Love, Richmond. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Oct 18 08:01:31 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 08:01:31 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't have a corner case file, yet, but I'm going to start adding one to Git in a minute... On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 2:26 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Peter M. Brigham > wrote: > > > At this point, finding a function that does the task at all -- reliably > > and taking into account most of the csv malformations we can anticipate > -- > > would be a start. > > > Actually, having a standard mutant csv file to work on would be a start. > Probably two files, a plain text file that needs to fed fed into the algo > and a pdf version which shows exactly how the data is suppose to appear. > > What are people using for their example file? We need to check it contains > all possible mutations. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Oct 18 08:57:52 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 08:57:52 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://github.com/macMikey/LiveCode-Libraries/tree/master/csv I've found some corner cases and made some others. On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I don't have a corner case file, yet, but I'm going to start adding one to > Git in a minute... > > On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 2:26 AM, Kay C Lan > wrote: > >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Peter M. Brigham >> wrote: >> >> > At this point, finding a function that does the task at all -- reliably >> > and taking into account most of the csv malformations we can anticipate >> -- >> > would be a start. >> >> >> Actually, having a standard mutant csv file to work on would be a start. >> Probably two files, a plain text file that needs to fed fed into the algo >> and a pdf version which shows exactly how the data is suppose to appear. >> >> What are people using for their example file? We need to check it contains >> all possible mutations. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From livfoss at mac.com Sun Oct 18 11:08:21 2015 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 17:08:21 +0200 Subject: LiveCode Server on DreamHost - Help Needed Message-ID: Following some recommendations (yes, there were others, but I had to make a decision), I find myself setting up a web site on DreamHost which will use the commercial version of LiveCode 7 Server. The problem is that I am a total newbie to the whole thing and I find even the simplest things either very obscurely explained or hard to do, or both. I have set up the actual domain on DreamHost, and in due course I will be able to give a URL to people who want to view the site. I have uploaded a web site which I already designed using a simple web design tool, Sandvox, and that works nicely as far as it goes (currently mirrored). After that, I?m in a hopeless muddle. My next move is to alter this rather simple set of pages so that it interacts with scripts executed by LC7 Server. I know how to find and download the appropriate LC engine (although I don?t know if I need the 32 bit or the 64 bit version) and I have the script, but that?s it - I think this stuff should all go into a cgi-bin directory (tho there is a bit of DreamHost which queries even that) and I don?t even know how to create a new directory (although I do know how to upload stuff to an existing directory using FTP). I also have a very nasty suspicion that I should be doing something with a .htaccess file, but I have no idea what. In short I am floundering around - several uncomplimentary metaphors come to mind - and although I suppose that in the end I could get things right, I could really use some help from someone who has done it before. I know that there are several people on this list who used DreamHost, hence my appeal: if anyone has implemented such a thing on Dreamhost and is willing to write me some kind of step-by-step guide, I?d be infinitely grateful. As far as I am concerned it could be on- or off-list. TIA Graham From paul at livecode.org Sun Oct 18 11:55:26 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 08:55:26 -0700 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> > On 18 Oct 2015, at 02:31, Richmond wrote: > > " Unfortunately, in Illustrator you cannot create a gradient that goes from a color to transparent as you can in Photoshop." > > Just spent an hour digging for that! > > Possibly that came in later versions of Illustrator ???? > > Love, Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode It?s not the same as Photoshop, but you can create a transparent gradient in older versions of Illustrator. You just need an opacity mask to make this work in Illustrator CS2, CS4 onward is much easier. I?m not too sure how this will relate to the SVG though. Create a graphic shape and fill with the your desired colour, then on top of that create a second graphic (can be a square with the same outer dimensions as the first graphic). Fill the second graphic with a black-to-white gradient fill (black will become the transparent part and white will be opaque). Now select both objects, open the Transparency Palette, click on the twist arrow and choose "Make Opacity Mask?. Your first graphic shape should now have a transparent gradient. Have fun. Paul From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 18 12:09:41 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 09:09:41 -0700 Subject: LC8 Missing Dictionary entries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5623C445.6050300@ahsoftware.net> On 10/17/2015 05:56 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > The propertynames includes loadExtensions and mirrored but there are no > dictionary entries for them. Anyone know what they are? Don't know about loadExtensions, but "load extension " is a command in LC8, and "the loadedExtensions" is a system property to show (duh) the loaded extensions. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 12:45:47 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 19:45:47 +0300 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> Message-ID: <5623CCBB.2040709@gmail.com> On 18/10/15 18:55, Paul Hibbert wrote: >> On 18 Oct 2015, at 02:31, Richmond wrote: >> >> " Unfortunately, in Illustrator you cannot create a gradient that goes from a color to transparent as you can in Photoshop." >> >> Just spent an hour digging for that! >> >> Possibly that came in later versions of Illustrator ???? >> >> Love, Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > It?s not the same as Photoshop, but you can create a transparent gradient in older versions of Illustrator. You just need an opacity mask to make this work in Illustrator CS2, CS4 onward is much easier. I?m not too sure how this will relate to the SVG though. > > Create a graphic shape and fill with the your desired colour, then on top of that create a second graphic (can be a square with the same outer dimensions as the first graphic). > Fill the second graphic with a black-to-white gradient fill (black will become the transparent part and white will be opaque). > Now select both objects, open the Transparency Palette, click on the twist arrow and choose "Make Opacity Mask?. > Your first graphic shape should now have a transparent gradient. > > Have fun. Ha, Ha, Ha: I'd rather not frankly, when Inkscape does it so easily. Thanks for the method, anyway! Richmond. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Sun Oct 18 12:52:15 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:52:15 -0400 Subject: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1507bdda852-560e-11d91@webprd-a98.mail.aol.com> Kay. Check my post in the "feature request" pane in the forum. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Kay C Lan To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2015 1:57 am Subject: Re: Forcing string comparisons, or When is "0" not 0? On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > but only by strictCompare set to 0 or 1 would it be possible to easily > determine that these numbers are in fact just strings in amongst words as > part of lines of strings. > Should read: but only by strctCompare set to 2 or 1 would it be... _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 12:59:44 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:59:44 -0400 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <5623CCBB.2040709@gmail.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> <5623CCBB.2040709@gmail.com> Message-ID: My copy of Illustrator seems to have a transparent gradient in the swatch. I?ve sent an SVG to Alejandro. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 13:00:54 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 20:00:54 +0300 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> <5623CCBB.2040709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5623D046.9030409@gmail.com> On 18/10/15 19:59, Colin Holgate wrote: > My copy of Illustrator seems to have a transparent gradient in the swatch. I?ve sent an SVG to Alejandro. Yes, but, just possibly, you are not a raving cheap-jack like me with the Free CS2 version. Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 13:02:12 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:02:12 -0400 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <5623D046.9030409@gmail.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> <5623CCBB.2040709@gmail.com> <5623D046.9030409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87EE2D0E-C58F-4DEC-8152-EDE1048CBEF3@gmail.com> Well, who is? > On Oct 18, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Richmond wrote: > > On 18/10/15 19:59, Colin Holgate wrote: >> My copy of Illustrator seems to have a transparent gradient in the swatch. I?ve sent an SVG to Alejandro. > > Yes, but, just possibly, you are not a raving cheap-jack like me with the Free CS2 version. > > Richmond. > >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 13:25:11 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 20:25:11 +0300 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <87EE2D0E-C58F-4DEC-8152-EDE1048CBEF3@gmail.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> <5623CCBB.2040709@gmail.com> <5623D046.9030409@gmail.com> <87EE2D0E-C58F-4DEC-8152-EDE1048CBEF3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5623D5F7.3010407@gmail.com> On 18/10/15 20:02, Colin Holgate wrote: > Well, who is? I am sure I am not the only person "out there" who: 1. Does not have money to buy software. 2. Feels a bit 'wiggly' about using Pirate Software. And, as there is now a plethora of free solutions, whether open-source or otherwise, that really should stop no-one who wants to do something creative on a computer. To illustrate this point: I can buy a reasonable 3 year old computer here (Bulgaria) [with an 80 GB Hard disk] for about 100 Leva = 50 Euros = $57, a similar flat-screen monitor for 25-50 leva: 1. Install some type of Linux on the thing. 2. LiveCode community. 3. GIMP. 4. Inkscape. 5. Firefox. 6. LibreOffice. And, to all intents and purposes, one is up and running for under a hundred greenbacks! In fact, I have quite a number of pupils who come to my language school whose parents are not really up to spending a lot of money on a system for their kid: I am always happy to install the above for free on a $100 system: lots of happy and productive kids. And, after a while, the parents are coming back to me to change their "tired" PCs over from Windows XP to something like Xubuntu. Whether one is a cheap-jack because one has Scots blood in one (!!!!!), or out of necessity, that is never going to be an adequate excuse for stopping your kid learning how to program and generally function on a computer. Richmond. > > >> On Oct 18, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> On 18/10/15 19:59, Colin Holgate wrote: >>> My copy of Illustrator seems to have a transparent gradient in the swatch. I?ve sent an SVG to Alejandro. >> Yes, but, just possibly, you are not a raving cheap-jack like me with the Free CS2 version. >> >> Richmond. >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 13:41:17 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:41:17 -0400 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <5623D5F7.3010407@gmail.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> <5623CCBB.2040709@gmail.com> <5623D046.9030409@gmail.com> <87EE2D0E-C58F-4DEC-8152-EDE1048CBEF3@gmail.com> <5623D5F7.3010407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5FEEFB07-6A4B-4849-8E44-45D8A06D00BC@gmail.com> I was, of course, just teasing, and not attempting to make a logical statement! I?m in a more fortunate state, Adobe software wise. I am Adobe Community Professional, MVP in their forums (it?s debatable what the letters stand for, but most likely Most Valuable Participant), and I?m a moderator in the Adobe forums too. As part of being ACP they give me a CC subscription. I?m also on a few prerelease lists too. The Illustrator I used was the currently available latest version, but I do have versions more recent than that, which also have significant SVG related new features. But I can?t tell you about those. I should send over an export from Flash Pro too, that can do quite elaborate illustrations and export them to SVG. > On Oct 18, 2015, at 1:25 PM, Richmond wrote: > > On 18/10/15 20:02, Colin Holgate wrote: >> Well, who is? > > I am sure I am not the only person "out there" who: > > 1. Does not have money to buy software. > > 2. Feels a bit 'wiggly' about using Pirate Software. > > And, as there is now a plethora of free solutions, whether open-source or otherwise, > that really should stop no-one who wants to do something creative on a computer. > > To illustrate this point: > > I can buy a reasonable 3 year old computer here (Bulgaria) [with an 80 GB Hard disk] for about 100 Leva = 50 Euros = $57, > a similar flat-screen monitor for 25-50 leva: > > 1. Install some type of Linux on the thing. > > 2. LiveCode community. > > 3. GIMP. > > 4. Inkscape. > > 5. Firefox. > > 6. LibreOffice. > > And, to all intents and purposes, one is up and running for under a hundred greenbacks! > > In fact, I have quite a number of pupils who come to my language school whose parents are not really > up to spending a lot of money on a system for their kid: I am always happy to install the above for free > on a $100 system: lots of happy and productive kids. And, after a while, the parents are coming back to me to > change their "tired" PCs over from Windows XP to something like Xubuntu. > > Whether one is a cheap-jack because one has Scots blood in one (!!!!!), or out of necessity, that is never going to be > an adequate excuse for stopping your kid learning how to program and generally function on a computer. > > Richmond. >> >> >>> On Oct 18, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Richmond wrote: >>> >>> On 18/10/15 19:59, Colin Holgate wrote: >>>> My copy of Illustrator seems to have a transparent gradient in the swatch. I?ve sent an SVG to Alejandro. >>> Yes, but, just possibly, you are not a raving cheap-jack like me with the Free CS2 version. >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Sun Oct 18 14:30:56 2015 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:30:56 -0700 Subject: LiveCode Server on DreamHost - Help Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Graham.... One can only use the .htaccess method for each domain at this point. Andre' (a major trooper) helped me get set up on Dreamhost a few years ago. We first tried the 'modify Apache' method that's supposed to work on 'non-shared' servers. It doesn't work on Dreamhost's 'Virtual Personal Servers' either. I'm not sure what FTP client you are using but I highly recommend Panic's TRANSMIT software, especially if you're not so handy with using Terminal to do things. All FTP accounts on Dreamhost are SFTP by default and that enables a few commands like zip and unzip to be executed from Transmit. Make sure you get the Linux server. .htaccess files so named will disappear from normal listings so make sure your FTP client has 'show invisible files' checked. Next take a look at my diagram of the files placement. You will definitely have to set the permissions on all files and folders as noted, they won't expand 'out of the box' perfectly. http://media.barncard.com/downloads/LIVECODE_SERVER_SETUP.pdf There are two .htaccess files, one at the top of the domain, and one inside the folder cgi-bin the root .htaccess I use currently is: AddHandler livecode-script .lc .irev .iRev DirectoryIndex index.irev index.lc index.html index.php dir.irev video.irev audio.irev gallery.irev download.irev Action livecode-script /cgi-bin/livecode-server/livecode-community-server The directoryindexes above, second line, show what kind of file will execute by default in a directory and the action is the executable that runs when any of the Addhandler parameters describe. Change community-server to plain livecode-server in example above, and you don't need all the DirectoryIndexes. the .htaccess inside cgi-bin I use is: Options ExecCGI SetHandler cgi-script here's my test script in action: http://media.barncard.com/livecode-server-test_Color.irev and zipped source code: http://media.barncard.com/livecode-server-test_Color.zip you'll see livecode executed in simple ways. you have to keep refreshing your browser each time you change something, and turn off caching in da browser. have fun. Hope this helps. it's a bit of a journey ... take your time... and worth it. I LOVE LIVECODE SERVER btw.... sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: > Following some recommendations (yes, there were others, but I had to make > a decision), I find myself setting up a web site on DreamHost which will > use the commercial version of LiveCode 7 Server. The problem is that I am a > total newbie to the whole thing and I find even the simplest things either > very obscurely explained or hard to do, or both. > > I have set up the actual domain on DreamHost, and in due course I will be > able to give a URL to people who want to view the site. I have uploaded a > web site which I already designed using a simple web design tool, Sandvox, > and that works nicely as far as it goes (currently mirrored). After that, > I?m in a hopeless muddle. > > My next move is to alter this rather simple set of pages so that it > interacts with scripts executed by LC7 Server. I know how to find and > download the appropriate LC engine (although I don?t know if I need the 32 > bit or the 64 bit version) and I have the script, but that?s it - I think > this stuff should all go into a cgi-bin directory (tho there is a bit of > DreamHost which queries even that) and I don?t even know how to create a > new directory (although I do know how to upload stuff to an existing > directory using FTP). I also have a very nasty suspicion that I should be > doing something with a .htaccess file, but I have no idea what. In short I > am floundering around - several uncomplimentary metaphors come to mind - > and although I suppose that in the end I could get things right, I could > really use some help from someone who has done it before. > > I know that there are several people on this list who used DreamHost, > hence my appeal: if anyone has implemented such a thing on Dreamhost and is > willing to write me some kind of step-by-step guide, I?d be infinitely > grateful. As far as I am concerned it could be on- or off-list. > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 15:54:58 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 22:54:58 +0300 Subject: Looking for SVG Test files In-Reply-To: <5FEEFB07-6A4B-4849-8E44-45D8A06D00BC@gmail.com> References: <562240B8.3030304@gmail.com> <1445148836321-4697649.post@n4.nabble.com> <562366FD.7030701@gmail.com> <719DE11E-B3FC-405D-82BC-44D2EF936B16@livecode.org> <5623CCBB.2040709@gmail.com> <5623D046.9030409@gmail.com> <87EE2D0E-C58F-4DEC-8152-EDE1048CBEF3@gmail.com> <5623D5F7.3010407@gmail.com> <5FEEFB07-6A4B-4849-8E44-45D8A06D00BC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5623F912.80208@gmail.com> On 18/10/15 20:41, Colin Holgate wrote: > I was, of course, just teasing, and not attempting to make a logical statement! If you want me to rise to the bait, that one's about the best bet. As I remember watching the O.J.Simpson car chase with Todor and Elka Georgiev over lunch in Carbondale, Illinois, and discussing it in Bulgarian, I think I can have a prior claim to associating with Photoshop 'types'. http://www.tgeorgiev.net/RadianceCameras/ Richmond. > > I?m in a more fortunate state, Adobe software wise. I am Adobe Community Professional, MVP in their forums (it?s debatable what the letters stand for, but most likely Most Valuable Participant), and I?m a moderator in the Adobe forums too. As part of being ACP they give me a CC subscription. I?m also on a few prerelease lists too. The Illustrator I used was the currently available latest version, but I do have versions more recent than that, which also have significant SVG related new features. But I can?t tell you about those. > > I should send over an export from Flash Pro too, that can do quite elaborate illustrations and export them to SVG. > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Oct 18 18:46:18 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:46:18 -0700 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5624213A.3030508@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > I don't have a corner case file, yet, but I'm going to start adding one to > Git in a minute... > > On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 2:26 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Peter M. Brigham >> wrote: >> >> > At this point, finding a function that does the task at all -- reliably >> > and taking into account most of the csv malformations we can anticipate >> -- >> > would be a start. The snippet included in my article is commonly used to test CSV parsers, which is unfortunate since it only covers a relatively small handful of edge cases - I added a case for in-data returns just below it: Even then woefully incomplete, but hopefully worthwhile as at least a starting point. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Oct 18 19:35:58 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 19:35:58 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <5624213A.3030508@fourthworld.com> References: <5624213A.3030508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Consider them added. They're called "Richard-1.csv" and "Richard-2.csv" On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > >> I don't have a corner case file, yet, but I'm going to start adding one to >> Git in a minute... >> >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 2:26 AM, Kay C Lan >> wrote: >> >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Peter M. Brigham >>> wrote: >>> >>> > At this point, finding a function that does the task at all -- reliably >>> > and taking into account most of the csv malformations we can anticipate >>> -- >>> > would be a start. >>> >> > The snippet included in my article is commonly used to test CSV parsers, > which is unfortunate since it only covers a relatively small handful of > edge cases - I added a case for in-data returns just below it: > > > > Even then woefully incomplete, but hopefully worthwhile as at least a > starting point. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From alex at tweedly.net Sun Oct 18 20:01:50 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 01:01:50 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> References: <56203802.2090808@fourthworld.com> <562043D9.3020407@tweedly.net> <5620672C.5060802@tweedly.net> <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562432EE.90507@tweedly.net> On 18/10/2015 03:17, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > At this point, finding a function that does the task at all -- reliably and taking into account most of the csv malformations we can anticipate -- would be a start. So far nothing has been unbreakable. Once we find an algorithm that does the job, we can focus on speeding it up. > That is indeed the issue. There are two distinct problems, and the "best" solutions for each may be different. 1. Optimistic parser. Properly parse any well-formed CSV data, in any idiosyncratic dialect of CSV that we may be interested in. Or to put it otherwise, in general we are going to be parsing data produced by some program - it may take some oddball approach to CSV formatting, but it will be "correct" in the program's own terms. We are not (in this problem) trying to handle, e.g., hand-generated files that may contain errors, or have deliberate errors embedded. Thus, we do not expect things like mis-matched quotes, etc. - and it will be adequate to do "something reasonable" given bad input data. 2. Pessimistic parser. Just the opposite - try to detect any arbitrary malformation with a sensible error message, and properly parse any well-formed CSV data in any dialect we might encounter. And common to both - adequate (optional) control over delimiters, escaped characters in the output, etc. - efficiency (speed) matters IMHO, we should also specify that the output should - remove the enclosing quotes from quoted cells - reduce doubled-quotes within a quoted cell to the appropriate single instance of a quote in order that the TSV (or array, or whatever output format is chosen) does not need further processing to remove them; i.e. the output data is clean of any CSV formatting artifacts. Personally, I am a pragmatist, and I have always needed solution 1 above - whenever I've had to parse CSV data, it's because I had a real-world need to do so, and the data was coming from some well-behaved (even if very weird) application - so it was consistent and followed some kind of rules, however wacky those rules might be. Other people may have different needs. So I believe that any proposed algorithm should be clear about which of these two distinct problems it is trying to solve, and should be judged accordingly. Then each of us can look for the most efficient solution to whichever one they most care about. I do believe that any solution to problem 2 is also a solution to problem 1 - but I don't know if it can be as efficient while tackling that harder problem. -- Alex. From alex at tweedly.net Sun Oct 18 20:06:36 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 01:06:36 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> On 18/10/2015 13:57, Mike Kerner wrote: > https://github.com/macMikey/LiveCode-Libraries/tree/master/csv > > I've found some corner cases and made some others. > > OK, I confess: I've never used git or github, and I have no idea how to get access to these. :-) I know I need to learn, but honestly this is not the right time for me to do that - is there a 5-minute tutorial (or step-by-step instruction) that I can follow to at least get these files ? Many thanks Alex. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Oct 18 21:52:42 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:52:42 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> References: <56211217.9030906@tweedly.net> <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Well, there goes that idea. There are tutorials right on Git, but it might be easier if you (and anyone else so not-inclined to Git) post here and those of us who are at least inclined to try will make do with doing that work for you. Anyway, here's what I have as the latest version, with a couple of things I added to it, marked as "mikey" function CSVToTab pData,pcoldelim local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data local tReturnPlaceholder -- replaces cr in field data to avoid line -- breaks which would be misread as records; local tNuDelim -- new character to replace the delimiter local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar -- put numtochar(11) into tReturnPlaceholder -- vertical tab as placeholder put numtochar(29) into tNuDelim -- if pcoldelim is empty then put comma into pcoldelim -- Normalize line endings: replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX put CR after pData #last line may not properly parse, otherwise #mikey put "outside" into tStatus set the itemdel to quote repeat for each item k in pData -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg switch tStatus case "inside" put k after theInsideStringSoFar put "passedquote" into tStatus next repeat case "passedquote" -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing quote if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote put quote after theInsideStringSoFar put "inside" into tStatus next repeat end if -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have left the quoted section -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell content !! replace cr with tReturnPlaceholder in theInsideStringSoFar put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData case "outside" replace pcoldelim with tNuDelim in k -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode replace (tNuDelim & CR) with tNuDelim & tNuDelim & CR in k put k after tNuData put "inside" into tStatus put empty into theInsideStringSoFar next repeat default put "defaulted" break end switch end repeat replace tNuDelim with tab in tNuData #mikey delete last char of tNuData #added at top to assist last line parse #mikey return tNuData end CSVToTab On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 8:06 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > > On 18/10/2015 13:57, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> https://github.com/macMikey/LiveCode-Libraries/tree/master/csv >> >> I've found some corner cases and made some others. >> >> >> OK, I confess: > > I've never used git or github, and I have no idea how to get access to > these. :-) > > I know I need to learn, but honestly this is not the right time for me to > do that - is there a 5-minute tutorial (or step-by-step instruction) that I > can follow to at least get these files ? > > Many thanks > Alex. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pete at lcsql.com Sun Oct 18 22:22:15 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 19:22:15 -0700 Subject: LC8 Missing Dictionary entries In-Reply-To: <5623C445.6050300@ahsoftware.net> References: <5623C445.6050300@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: You're right, I misread the loadExtensions thing, should have been loadedExtensions. Also found a reference to "mirrored" in the 8.0 release notes. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/17/2015 05:56 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> The propertynames includes loadExtensions and mirrored but there are no >> dictionary entries for them. Anyone know what they are? >> > > Don't know about loadExtensions, but "load extension " is a > command in LC8, and "the loadedExtensions" is a system property to show > (duh) the loaded extensions. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Oct 19 02:58:23 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 23:58:23 -0700 Subject: Possible Change to Load URL? Message-ID: Hi List: I'm trying to figure out why launching stacks using "load url..." and a status callback continues repeating the callback message after a "downloaded" status message is received. Calling "unload url..." doesn't kill the callback (checking the result shows empty as if it succeeded), and the request to download the stack repeats. The only way I can cancel the looping download/callback is with command + period. Running under LC 6.7.2 and 7.0.6 exhibits the same behavior. Did I miss some change to load url that requires a different method to terminate it? What am I missing? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Oct 19 03:48:39 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:48:39 +0200 Subject: slow down of building standalone in 6.7. Message-ID: <009201d10a42$922fcae0$b68f60a0$@kestner.de> Hello, Probably this was already discussed, but I don't find the thread. There is a drastic slowdown in saving as standalone between LC 6.5 and LC 6.7 (didn't tested 6.6). Where one program took about 20 secs in 6.5, it takes almost 2 min in 6.7 on OS X. The "Removing development properties and setting profile options" is the part which tales the longest now. Is this a known behavior? Is it just like this because of any new technology under the hood, or are there perhaps any settings, I can check, what could affect this delay? Thanks Tiemo From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 19 05:47:55 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:47:55 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 5 Message-ID: <5624BC4B.3090701@livecode.com> Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read the issue #5 here: https://goo.gl/Blrc9J This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 19 08:30:20 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 13:30:20 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 5 In-Reply-To: <5624BC4B.3090701@livecode.com> References: <5624BC4B.3090701@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5624E25C.9010305@livecode.com> On 19/10/2015 10:47, Peter TB Brett wrote: > Hi all, > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source > community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! > > Read the issue #5 here: I'm sorry, I used the wrong URL! The correct one is: https://goo.gl/D0Zr2T Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Mon Oct 19 10:25:46 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:25:46 +0100 Subject: twitter in liveCode ? Message-ID: Is it possible to display 'tweets' from someone in a mobile 'liveCode' app ?... and if so, how do you go about it ? From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Mon Oct 19 11:33:57 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:33:57 +0200 Subject: twitter in liveCode ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56250D65.1010007@economy-x-talk.com> The easiest way to display tweets in a LiveCode app is to use the browser control and a widget from the Twitter website. You can also use the Twitter API, but for reading tweets from a particular profile, this isn't necessary. Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/19/2015 om 16:25 schreef John Dixon: > Is it possible to display 'tweets' from someone in a mobile 'liveCode' app ?... and if so, how do you go about it ? > From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Mon Oct 19 12:30:06 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:30:06 +0100 Subject: twitter in liveCode ? In-Reply-To: <56250D65.1010007@economy-x-talk.com> References: , <56250D65.1010007@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mark, I'll try and see what happens...:-) > Subject: Re: twitter in liveCode ? > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:33:57 +0200 > > The easiest way to display tweets in a LiveCode app is to use the > browser control and a widget from the Twitter website. You can also use > the Twitter API, but for reading tweets from a particular profile, this > isn't necessary. > > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 10/19/2015 om 16:25 schreef John Dixon: > > Is it possible to display 'tweets' from someone in a mobile 'liveCode' app ?... and if so, how do you go about it ? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 19 12:50:00 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:50:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: twitter in liveCode ? References: <56250D65.1010007@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Mark Schonewille writes: > > The easiest way to display tweets in a LiveCode app is to use the > browser control and a widget from the Twitter website. You can also use > the Twitter API, but for reading tweets from a particular profile, this > isn't necessary. Also note that Twitter has been known to change the API in the past in order to prevent just this sort of thing, so the browser route would be your best bet. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Oct 19 12:58:27 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:58:27 -0400 Subject: twitter in liveCode ? In-Reply-To: References: <56250D65.1010007@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <008501d10a8f$604e7290$20eb57b0$@net> The login credentials for both Twitter and Facebook will be remembered when using the browser control. I only tested on mobile. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Wieder Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 12:50 PM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: twitter in liveCode ? Mark Schonewille writes: > > The easiest way to display tweets in a LiveCode app is to use the > browser control and a widget from the Twitter website. You can also > use the Twitter API, but for reading tweets from a particular profile, > this isn't necessary. Also note that Twitter has been known to change the API in the past in order to prevent just this sort of thing, so the browser route would be your best bet. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Mon Oct 19 14:46:38 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:46:38 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? Message-ID: Hi, I?m getting reports that users aren?t able to install Quicktime on their new Windows 10 machines. Any news or experiences with this? Peter Bogdanoff UCLCA From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 15:18:06 2015 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:18:06 +0300 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Peter, QuickTime is not officially supported on Windows versions > 7. However, you *may* be able to install it, even if it is not officially supported. See this bug report for more details: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16197 Best regards, Panos -- On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Hi, > > I?m getting reports that users aren?t able to install Quicktime on their > new Windows 10 machines. > > Any news or experiences with this? > > Peter Bogdanoff > UCLCA > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bogdanoff at me.com Mon Oct 19 15:46:45 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:46:45 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A56E0EE-1931-49D6-AACB-D5117810077D@me.com> Thanks Panos, I?ll try it out. Peter On Oct 19, 2015, at 12:18 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Hi Peter, > > QuickTime is not officially supported on Windows versions > 7. However, you > *may* be able to install it, even if it is not officially supported. See > this bug report for more details: > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16197 > > Best regards, > Panos > -- > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I?m getting reports that users aren?t able to install Quicktime on their >> new Windows 10 machines. >> >> Any news or experiences with this? >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> UCLCA >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From skip at magicgate.com Mon Oct 19 16:10:06 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:10:06 -0400 Subject: Access to antenna signal data Message-ID: Good afternoon LC'ers, Is it possible to access raw data from the antenna of the phone. I am trying to gauge incoming and outgoing signal strength at a precise level and immediately thought of using LC to accomplish this task. Having said that, I am not sure this is something that is available to us... maybe through one of Monte's miraculous extensions? Any guidance, one way or another, is always appreciated. SKIP KIMPEL From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 19 16:23:59 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 20:23:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Access to antenna signal data References: Message-ID: Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel writes: > > Good afternoon LC'ers, > > Is it possible to access raw data from the antenna of the phone. I am > trying to gauge incoming and outgoing signal strength at a precise level > and immediately thought of using LC to accomplish this task. Having said > that, I am not sure this is something that is available to us... maybe > through one of Monte's miraculous extensions? Something like this? http://developer.android.com/reference/android/telephony/SignalStrength.html -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 19 16:35:41 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:35:41 +1100 Subject: Access to antenna signal data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2DA6E182-DBE5-49D8-BC7B-5DBCAD471692@sweattechnologies.com> > On 20 Oct 2015, at 7:10 am, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel wrote: > > Is it possible to access raw data from the antenna of the phone. I am > trying to gauge incoming and outgoing signal strength at a precise level > and immediately thought of using LC to accomplish this task. Having said > that, I am not sure this is something that is available to us... maybe > through one of Monte's miraculous extensions? > > Any guidance, one way or another, is always appreciated. None of my current extensions will do this. Which platforms do you need? -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From skip at magicgate.com Mon Oct 19 16:40:12 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:40:12 -0400 Subject: Access to antenna signal data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes Mark! Monte, I would like to have access on an iOS device, preferably. SKIP On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel writes: > > > > > Good afternoon LC'ers, > > > > Is it possible to access raw data from the antenna of the phone. I am > > trying to gauge incoming and outgoing signal strength at a precise level > > and immediately thought of using LC to accomplish this task. Having said > > that, I am not sure this is something that is available to us... maybe > > through one of Monte's miraculous extensions? > > Something like this? > > http://developer.android.com/reference/android/telephony/SignalStrength.html > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 19 16:52:53 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:52:53 +1100 Subject: Access to antenna signal data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <724D5E04-CF36-4341-98E4-70937729FC46@sweattechnologies.com> OK then so next question is whether your app is going into the app store? Looks like it?s private methods on iOS. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4954389/measuring-cellular-signal-strength Cheers Monte > On 20 Oct 2015, at 7:40 am, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel wrote: > > Yes Mark! Monte, I would like to have access on an iOS device, preferably. > > SKIP > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > >> Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel writes: >> >>> >>> Good afternoon LC'ers, >>> >>> Is it possible to access raw data from the antenna of the phone. I am >>> trying to gauge incoming and outgoing signal strength at a precise level >>> and immediately thought of using LC to accomplish this task. Having said >>> that, I am not sure this is something that is available to us... maybe >>> through one of Monte's miraculous extensions? >> >> Something like this? >> >> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/telephony/SignalStrength.html >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From skip at magicgate.com Mon Oct 19 16:57:24 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:57:24 -0400 Subject: Access to antenna signal data In-Reply-To: <724D5E04-CF36-4341-98E4-70937729FC46@sweattechnologies.com> References: <724D5E04-CF36-4341-98E4-70937729FC46@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: It is more for internal use rather than going into the app store. I found an interesting method on the iPhone to get it into "field mode" but would love to be able to program around this data coming in via LC! http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-see-your-iphones-true-cell-signal-strength-2014-11 SKIP On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > OK then so next question is whether your app is going into the app store? > Looks like it?s private methods on iOS. > > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4954389/measuring-cellular-signal-strength > < > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4954389/measuring-cellular-signal-strength > > > > Cheers > > Monte > > On 20 Oct 2015, at 7:40 am, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel < > skip at magicgate.com> wrote: > > > > Yes Mark! Monte, I would like to have access on an iOS device, > preferably. > > > > SKIP > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Mark Wieder > wrote: > > > >> Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel writes: > >> > >>> > >>> Good afternoon LC'ers, > >>> > >>> Is it possible to access raw data from the antenna of the phone. I am > >>> trying to gauge incoming and outgoing signal strength at a precise > level > >>> and immediately thought of using LC to accomplish this task. Having > said > >>> that, I am not sure this is something that is available to us... maybe > >>> through one of Monte's miraculous extensions? > >> > >> Something like this? > >> > >> > http://developer.android.com/reference/android/telephony/SignalStrength.html > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Wieder > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 19 17:01:15 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:01:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Access to antenna signal data References: <724D5E04-CF36-4341-98E4-70937729FC46@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Monte Goulding writes: > Looks like it?s private methods on iOS. Right - the api is available, but not public. Apparently some folks have been able to get apps into the store, but I wouldn't count on doing that. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 19 17:01:48 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:01:48 +1100 Subject: Access to antenna signal data In-Reply-To: References: <724D5E04-CF36-4341-98E4-70937729FC46@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <3F23A555-7D57-40F0-8621-9507C66C65C6@sweattechnologies.com> There?s this: https://github.com/valexa/VAFieldTest It?s GPL though > On 20 Oct 2015, at 7:57 am, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel wrote: > > It is more for internal use rather than going into the app store. > I found an interesting method on the iPhone to get it into "field mode" but > would love to be able to program around this data coming in via LC! > > http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-see-your-iphones-true-cell-signal-strength-2014-11 > > SKIP > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Monte Goulding >> wrote: > >> OK then so next question is whether your app is going into the app store? >> Looks like it?s private methods on iOS. >> >> >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4954389/measuring-cellular-signal-strength >> < >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4954389/measuring-cellular-signal-strength >>> >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >>> On 20 Oct 2015, at 7:40 am, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel < >> skip at magicgate.com> wrote: >>> >>> Yes Mark! Monte, I would like to have access on an iOS device, >> preferably. >>> >>> SKIP >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Mark Wieder >> wrote: >>> >>>> Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel writes: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good afternoon LC'ers, >>>>> >>>>> Is it possible to access raw data from the antenna of the phone. I am >>>>> trying to gauge incoming and outgoing signal strength at a precise >> level >>>>> and immediately thought of using LC to accomplish this task. Having >> said >>>>> that, I am not sure this is something that is available to us... maybe >>>>> through one of Monte's miraculous extensions? >>>> >>>> Something like this? >>>> >>>> >> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/telephony/SignalStrength.html >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark Wieder >>>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Oct 19 17:13:27 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:13:27 -0400 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> On 10/19/2015 2:46 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Hi, > > I?m getting reports that users aren?t able to install Quicktime on their new Windows 10 machines. > > Any news or experiences with this? > The Quicktime 7.7.8 installer will not let you install under Windows 8, 8.1, or Windows 10. Apple now makes it only available for Vista and Windows 7. The Quicktime 7.7.6 installer (https://secure-appldnld.apple.com/QuickTime/031-08466.20141022.Xwlnm/QuickTimeInstaller.exe) will install under Windows 8.x and 10 and works and runs fine (we did a fair amount of QA testing) on both those versions of Windows. We've take to directing our customers to download using our links to the QT 7.7.6 installer. Hopefully that will last until LC where there will be a supported cross-platform media player. From klaus at major-k.de Mon Oct 19 17:44:03 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 23:44:03 +0200 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi all, > Am 19.10.2015 um 23:13 schrieb Paul Dupuis : > > On 10/19/2015 2:46 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I?m getting reports that users aren?t able to install Quicktime on their new Windows 10 machines. >> Any news or experiences with this? > The Quicktime 7.7.8 installer will not let you install under Windows 8, > 8.1, or Windows 10. Apple now makes it only available for Vista and > Windows 7. > The Quicktime 7.7.6 installer > (https://secure-appldnld.apple.com/QuickTime/031-08466.20141022.Xwlnm/QuickTimeInstaller.exe) > will install under Windows 8.x and 10 and works and runs fine (we did a > fair amount of QA testing) on both those versions of Windows. > We've take to directing our customers to download using our links to the > QT 7.7.6 installer. Hopefully that will last until LC version 8> where there will be a supported cross-platform media player. yep, that is one of the not yet reached kickstarter goals! 8-) QuickTime is dead, I?m afraid, so hopefully we'll see a new crossplatform audio/video widget in the near future. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From bogdanoff at me.com Mon Oct 19 18:00:02 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:00:02 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> Message-ID: Thanks Paul!! On Oct 19, 2015, at 2:13 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > On 10/19/2015 2:46 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I?m getting reports that users aren?t able to install Quicktime on their new Windows 10 machines. >> >> Any news or experiences with this? >> > > The Quicktime 7.7.8 installer will not let you install under Windows 8, > 8.1, or Windows 10. Apple now makes it only available for Vista and > Windows 7. > > The Quicktime 7.7.6 installer > (https://secure-appldnld.apple.com/QuickTime/031-08466.20141022.Xwlnm/QuickTimeInstaller.exe) > will install under Windows 8.x and 10 and works and runs fine (we did a > fair amount of QA testing) on both those versions of Windows. > > We've take to directing our customers to download using our links to the > QT 7.7.6 installer. Hopefully that will last until LC version 8> where there will be a supported cross-platform media player. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Oct 19 18:00:18 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:00:18 -0400 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> Message-ID: <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> On 10/19/2015 5:44 PM, Klaus major-k wrote: > QuickTime is dead, I?m afraid, so hopefully we'll see a new crossplatform > audio/video widget in the near future. Well QT is not dead. It runs and works under Windows (XP to 10) and OSX (through El Capitan). It's just that Apple will not provide any support/new releases IF some part of it stops working under some future OS change, so there is risk that QT could stop working with the next Apple or Microsoft OS patch. QT might still work under Windows 11 and OSX 10.12 OR a minor security update to either OS could break QT for good tomorrow. From klaus at major-k.de Mon Oct 19 18:03:43 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:03:43 +0200 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> Message-ID: <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> Hi Paul, > Am 20.10.2015 um 00:00 schrieb Paul Dupuis : > > On 10/19/2015 5:44 PM, Klaus major-k wrote: >> QuickTime is dead, I?m afraid, so hopefully we'll see a new crossplatform >> audio/video widget in the near future. > > Well QT is not dead. It runs and works under Windows (XP to 10) and OSX > (through El Capitan). It's just that Apple will not provide any > support/new releases IF some part of it stops working under some future > OS change, so there is risk that QT could stop working with the next > Apple or Microsoft OS patch. QT might still work under Windows 11 and > OSX 10.12 OR a minor security update to either OS could break QT for > good tomorrow. OK, QuickTime is not dead, but it smells funny :-D Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From paul at researchware.com Mon Oct 19 18:08:25 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:08:25 -0400 Subject: Building a standalone fails under LC6.7.8rc1 and LC6.7.7, but is fine under LC6.7.6 Message-ID: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> I am looking for bug confirmation and troubleshooting help before I escalate this to LiveCode. I have a large project. It builds fine under LC6.7.6. I downloaded LC6.7.8RC1 for testing. The StandAlone build fails under LC678rc1. And, it fails under LC677, but can be repeatedly built under 676 (or earlier). Development is on Windows, building for Windows and OSX. The symptoms of the failure are that I get the following two errors (same error, once for the OSX build and once for the WIndows build) - EVEN THOUGH my app does not include its own copies of the answer dialog in the main stack or any substacks or any external stacks that get loaded at runtime. A stack "answer dialog" in file C:/Users/Paul/Desktop/HR400-LC676/HyperRESEARCH/OSX x86-32/HyperRESEARCH.app/Contents/MacOS/HR_4.0.0.livecode is already in memory. The LiveCode UI does not distinguish stacks which have identical names, so editing these stack files while both are in memory could result in data loss. A stack "answer dialog" in file C:/Users/Paul/Desktop/HR400-LC676/HyperRESEARCH/Windows/HR_4.0.0.livecode is already in memory. The LiveCode UI does not distinguish stacks which have identical names, so editing these stack files while both are in memory could results in data loss. Then a error occurs which is one of our app's startup errors about missing components (external stacks loaded on startup) occurs and LiveCode locks up. It appears that after the errors above, LiveCode is reloading the my app FROM the standalone folder. Looking at the build folder on disk, only the HR_4.0.0.livecode stack file is present. It has not been built into a standalone and none of the external files, set in the Standalone Settings > Copy Files tab have been copied into the folders. The lack of any of teh external files, could explain the 3rd error IF LiveCode is attempting to reload the app from the build folder vs the folder it was loading into the IDE from. LiveCode locks up and a forced quit is required. So, before I escalate to LiveCode, has anyone else had any troubles building under LC6.7.7 or under LC6.7.8rc1? If you have build standalones under either of those versions, have then been for both OSX and Win or just one of those platforms? If you have built under 667 or 668 for either platform successfully, does your app use the Copy Files tab to include any other stacks or files with your app If you have built under 667 or 668 for either platform successfully, does your app use any instances of "answer" to have LC include the answer dialog upon standalone build? Lastly, does any one know if the Standaone Build process was changed in any way between LC 6.7.6 and 6.7.7? Thank you to anyone in advance for any specific information you can provide. From bogdanoff at me.com Mon Oct 19 18:12:26 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:12:26 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> If QT stops working, I am dead in the water for my projects, the major one that requires interoperability among OSX and all modern versions of Windows for a classroom of college students?it has to work for all of them, or it?s $ refunds back to all. But this danger goes away if LC suddenly, magically produces a player widget, and LC8 is good to go. I haven?t tested LC8 much, because without the universal player control I can?t use it. Peter On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:03 PM, Klaus major-k wrote: > Hi Paul, > >> Am 20.10.2015 um 00:00 schrieb Paul Dupuis : >> >> On 10/19/2015 5:44 PM, Klaus major-k wrote: >>> QuickTime is dead, I?m afraid, so hopefully we'll see a new crossplatform >>> audio/video widget in the near future. >> >> Well QT is not dead. It runs and works under Windows (XP to 10) and OSX >> (through El Capitan). It's just that Apple will not provide any >> support/new releases IF some part of it stops working under some future >> OS change, so there is risk that QT could stop working with the next >> Apple or Microsoft OS patch. QT might still work under Windows 11 and >> OSX 10.12 OR a minor security update to either OS could break QT for >> good tomorrow. > > OK, QuickTime is not dead, but it smells funny :-D > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Oct 19 18:16:17 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:16:17 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <164CF9A6-3558-4D21-AA53-4BB04F612E93@canelasoftware.com> Hi Peter, We have found that QT 7.7.6 works best with Windows 10. There are two newer versions. 7.7.7 will not install on Windows 10. 7.7.8 will install on Windows 10, but does not support .mp4 videos due to a security concern, according to Apple. -Mark Talluto On Oct 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Hi, > > I?m getting reports that users aren?t able to install Quicktime on their new Windows 10 machines. > > Any news or experiences with this? > > Peter Bogdanoff > UCLCA > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Oct 19 18:17:23 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:17:23 -0400 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <56256BF3.5070402@researchware.com> On 10/19/2015 6:03 PM, Klaus major-k wrote: > OK, QuickTime is not dead, but it smells funny :-D Indeed it certain does! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 19 18:23:01 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:23:01 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> References: <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> Message-ID: <56256D45.7020806@fourthworld.com> Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > If QT stops working, I am dead in the water for my projects, the > major one that requires interoperability among OSX and all modern > versions of Windows for a classroom of college students?it has to > work for all of them, or it?s $ refunds back to all. > > But this danger goes away if LC suddenly, magically produces a player > widget, and LC8 is good to go. I haven?t tested LC8 much, because > without the universal player control I can?t use it. LC8 is down the road, and since QuickTime is already abandonware it may be better to focus on the here-and-now so you have have a solution in your hands today if possible: What problems have you encountered using players on Windows without QuickTime? The team patched a few bugs in their Windows media playback a few versions back, so if you haven't tried it recently you may be pleasantly surprised. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bogdanoff at me.com Mon Oct 19 18:44:10 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:44:10 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <56256D45.7020806@fourthworld.com> References: <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> <56256D45.7020806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2C1282AD-6EA8-4164-8BFC-89ECDC6F164C@me.com> Yes, however my audio playback uses callbacks for interactivity?probably not available with Windows media playback? Peter On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > > If QT stops working, I am dead in the water for my projects, the > > major one that requires interoperability among OSX and all modern > > versions of Windows for a classroom of college students?it has to > > work for all of them, or it?s $ refunds back to all. > > > > But this danger goes away if LC suddenly, magically produces a player > > widget, and LC8 is good to go. I haven?t tested LC8 much, because > > without the universal player control I can?t use it. > > LC8 is down the road, and since QuickTime is already abandonware it may be better to focus on the here-and-now so you have have a solution in your hands today if possible: > > What problems have you encountered using players on Windows without QuickTime? > > The team patched a few bugs in their Windows media playback a few versions back, so if you haven't tried it recently you may be pleasantly surprised. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 19 18:54:48 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:54:48 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <2C1282AD-6EA8-4164-8BFC-89ECDC6F164C@me.com> References: <2C1282AD-6EA8-4164-8BFC-89ECDC6F164C@me.com> Message-ID: <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Yes, however my audio playback uses callbacks for interactivity?probably not available with Windows media playback? Does Apple's CoreAV provide callbacks? Does the Win media player API? I had thought (perhaps mistakenly) that LC's timers in the post-QuickTime world were implemented within the engine using the equivalent of timers, no? If currentTime is still working you should be able to script a workaround with timers easily enough. The polling required is less efficient, but under the current plan I don't expect to see media playback for Win or Linux overhauled for at least another year, if not longer, so we need to explore other solutions for now. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 19 18:57:45 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:57:45 +1100 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> References: <2C1282AD-6EA8-4164-8BFC-89ECDC6F164C@me.com> <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 20 Oct 2015, at 9:54 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> Yes, however my audio playback uses callbacks for interactivity?probably not available with Windows media playback? > > Does Apple's CoreAV provide callbacks? AVFoundation has callbacks. I don?t know about windows. From bogdanoff at me.com Mon Oct 19 19:00:09 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:00:09 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> References: <2C1282AD-6EA8-4164-8BFC-89ECDC6F164C@me.com> <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8D0EF043-FDA1-44F3-BB64-3BFC8265A3C1@me.com> That is probably worth exploring? Thanks Richard. On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> Yes, however my audio playback uses callbacks for interactivity?probably not available with Windows media playback? > > Does Apple's CoreAV provide callbacks? Does the Win media player API? > > I had thought (perhaps mistakenly) that LC's timers in the post-QuickTime world were implemented within the engine using the equivalent of timers, no? > > If currentTime is still working you should be able to script a workaround with timers easily enough. The polling required is less efficient, but under the current plan I don't expect to see media playback for Win or Linux overhauled for at least another year, if not longer, so we need to explore other solutions for now. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Mon Oct 19 19:35:25 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:35:25 +0100 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <56257E3D.7040801@tweedly.net> On 19/10/2015 02:52, Mike Kerner wrote: > Well, there goes that idea. There are tutorials right on Git, but it might > be easier if you (and anyone else so not-inclined to Git) post here and > those of us who are at least inclined to try will make do with doing that > work for you. > OK, OK, I know I need to learn Git / github - and I will soon - but just not today. I looked at some of the tutorials, and decided they would take a small amount of time. But, I have between 1/2 and one hour or so to work on my favourite hobby - Livecode - and I'd rather spend it updating my CSV script than learning a tutorial that I probably won't have time to complete. Yes - your change for the "no trailing CR' case is better than mine - there's no need to test, just change it. However, I later decided that that wasn't the best approach .... in conjunction with another change. The various version of the script all have some initial replacements, like -- Normalize line endings: replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX I put these in initially because I didn't fully understand how Runtime Revolution handled these (what can I say, I'd only been a RR user for a couple of weeks at the time :-) :-). I now believe that, so long as the data came from sensible place (i.e. a file, or a web site, or a database) and was pulled in in some sensible way (i.e. put URL "file:....") or equivalent, then this is a non-issue. Otherwise, every real script that handled data would have this kind of thing in it - and they don't. So - I think the 'replace' statements can be removed. Once they are out, then we see that "pData" is a read-only parameter, until we add this extra CR. Since a large part of the initial purpose was to be efficient (in CPU and in memory usage) so we can handle *large* datasets, it would be desirable to keep pData as read-only, hence avoiding both a memory copy and the additional memory used. So instead of adding a CR, we can instead do that by checking just after the loop whether or not the situation exists, and handling it there. So - given those two ideas, plus the need to parameterize, I upgraded the code to - not do the initial replacements - be fully parameterized for input delimiters - be fully parameterized for TAB or CR characters within quoted cells - and do all the quote- replacement, etc. ( see code below ) I then tested three versions of code - the earlier csvToTab2 (i.e. adding the CR at the end) - this new version (called csvToTab3 - Peter's csvToArray against 3 input datasets - the two from Richard's article, plus one testing the case of no trailing CR. Fortunately, all 3 produce equivalent output (not identical, since Peter's produces an array, doesn't remove quotes in cells and doesn't do the same things with enclosed CR and TABs - but equivalent. I also added to my test script the ability to choose how many copies of the input data file to put into the variable before calling each function - to allow simple benchmarking. (All the code for the functions and the test button is below) With that we get (remember - equivalent results) 1 copy of data (sample 1 from Richard - 7 lines, 370 chars) csvToTab2 0 msecs csvToTab3 0 msecs csvToArray 6539 msecs 20,000 copies of the data ( - 140,000 lines, 7.4Mb) csvToTab2 690 msecs csvToTab3 566 msecs csvToArray not tested -- Alex. Code for the test button on mouseUp local tChosenFile put empty into msg answer file "CSV file to process" if the result is not "Cancel" then put it into tChosenFile else exit mouseUp end if local tmp, t1, tmp1 put URL ("file:" & tChosenFile) into tmp1 put the number of chars in tmp1 & CR & tmp1 & CR after msg local tTimes ask "How many multiples" with 1 put it into tTimes repeat tTimes put tmp1 after tmp end repeat local time1 put the millisecs into time1 put csvToTab2(tmp) into t1 put "Version 2 took" && the millisecs - time1 &CR after msg if tTimes = 1 then replace numtochar(29) with "" in t1 replace numtochar(11) with "" in t1 replace TAB with "" in t1 put "[" & t1 & "]" & CR & CR after msg end if put the millisecs into time1 put csvToTab3(tmp) into t1 put "Version 3 took" && the millisecs - time1 &CR after msg if tTimes = 1 then replace numtochar(29) with "" in t1 replace numtochar(11) with "" in t1 replace TAB with "" in t1 put "[" & t1 & "]" & CR & CR after msg end if put empty into tA put the millisecs into time1 if tTimes = 1 then put csvToArray(tmp) into tA put "Version Array took" && the millisecs - time1 &CR after msg repeat for each key K in tA repeat for each key KK in tA[K] put K && KK && tA[K][KK] &CR after msg end repeat end repeat end if end mouseUp Code for the functions function CSVToTab3 pData, pOldLineDelim, pOldItemDelim, pNewCR, pNewTAB -- fill in defaults if pOldLineDelim is empty then put CR into pOldLineDelim if pOldItemDelim is empty then put COMMA into pOldItemDelim if pNewCR is empty then put numtochar(11) into pNewCR -- Use for quoted CRs if pNewTAB is empty then put numtochar(29) into pNewTAB -- Use (group separator) for quoted TABs local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar -- Normalize line endings: REMOVED -- Will normally be correct already, only binfile: or similar should make this necessary -- and that exceptional case should be the caller's responsibility put "outside" into tStatus set the itemdel to quote repeat for each item k in pData -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg switch tStatus case "inside" put k after theInsideStringSoFar put "passedquote" into tStatus next repeat case "passedquote" -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing quote if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote put quote after theInsideStringSoFar put "inside" into tStatus next repeat end if -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have left the quoted section -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell content !! replace pOldLineDelim with pNewCR in theInsideStringSoFar -- replace pOldItemDelim with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData case "outside" replace pOldItemDelim with TAB in k -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode replace (pNewTAB & pOldLineDelim) with pNewTAB & pNewTAB & CR in k put k after tNuData put "inside" into tStatus put empty into theInsideStringSoFar next repeat default put "defaulted" break end switch end repeat -- and finally deal with the trailing item isse in input data -- i.e. the very last char is a quote, so there is no trigger to flush the -- last item if the last char of pData = quote then put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData end if return tNuData end CSVToTab3 function CSVToTab2 pData, pcoldelim local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data local tReturnPlaceholder -- replaces cr in field data to avoid line -- breaks which would be misread as records; local tNuDelim -- new character to replace the delimiter local tNeedToRemoveFinalCR -- boolean to remove CR if added to ensure final token is processed local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar -- put numtochar(11) into tReturnPlaceholder -- vertical tab as placeholder put numtochar(29) into tNuDelim -- use internally -- if pcoldelim is empty then put comma into pcoldelim -- Normalize line endings: replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX if the last char of pData <> CR then put CR after pData put TRUE into tNeedToRemoveFinalCR end if put "outside" into tStatus set the itemdel to quote repeat for each item k in pData -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg switch tStatus case "inside" put k after theInsideStringSoFar put "passedquote" into tStatus next repeat case "passedquote" -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing quote if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote put quote after theInsideStringSoFar put "inside" into tStatus next repeat end if -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have left the quoted section -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell content !! replace cr with tReturnPlaceholder in theInsideStringSoFar put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData case "outside" replace pcoldelim with tNuDelim in k -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode replace (tNuDelim & CR) with tNuDelim & tNuDelim & CR in k put k after tNuData put "inside" into tStatus put empty into theInsideStringSoFar next repeat default put "defaulted" break end switch end repeat if tNeedToRemoveFinalCR and the last char of tNuData = CR then delete the last char of tNuData end if -- OPTIONAL - if the data may contain enclosed TABs, -- remove this next line to keep as separator replace numtochar(29) with TAB in tNuData return tNuData end CSVToTab2 function offsets str, pContainer -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer -- returns 0 if not found -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5" -- ie, overlapping offsets are not counted -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful) -- use "item -1 of offsets(...)" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if str is not in pContainer then return 0 put 0 into startPoint repeat put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat add thisOffset to startPoint put startPoint & comma after offsetList add length(str)-1 to startPoint end repeat return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma end offsets function CSVtoArray pData -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com -- requires getDelimiters(), howmany() put getDelimiters(pData,5) into tDelims put line 1 of tDelims into crChar put line 2 of tDelims into tabChar put line 3 of tDelims into commaChar put line 4 of tDelims into openQuoteChar put line 5 of tDelims into closeQuoteChar replace crlf with cr in pData -- Win to UNIX replace numtochar(13) with cr in pData -- Mac to UNIX if howmany(quote,pData) mod 2 = 1 then return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in data)." end if put offsets(quote,pData) into qOffsets if qOffsets > 0 then put 1 into counter repeat for each item q in qOffsets if counter mod 2 = 1 then put openQuoteChar into char q of pData else put closeQuoteChar into char q of pData add 1 to counter end repeat end if put offsets(cr,pData) into crOffsets repeat for each item r in crOffsets put char 1 to r of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the cr is within a quoted string put crChar into char r of pData end if end repeat put offsets(tab,pData) into tabOffsets repeat for each item t in tabOffsets put char 1 to t of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the tab is within a quoted string put tabChar into char t of pData end if end repeat put offsets(comma,pData) into commaOffsets repeat for each item c in commaOffsets put char 1 to c of pData into upToHere if howmany(openQuoteChar,upToHere) <> howmany(closeQuoteChar,upToHere) then -- the comma is within a quoted string put commaChar into char c of pData end if end repeat put 0 into lineCounter repeat for each line L in pData add 1 to lineCounter put 0 into itemCounter repeat for each item i in L add 1 to itemCounter put i into thisItem if howmany(quote,thisItem) mod 2 = 1 then return "This CSV data is not parsable (unclosed quotes in item)." end if replace crChar with cr in thisItem replace tabChar with tab in thisItem replace commaChar with comma in thisItem replace openQuoteChar with quote in thisItem replace closeQuoteChar with quote in thisItem put thisItem into A[lineCounter][itemCounter] end repeat end repeat return A end CSVtoArray function getDelimiters pText, nbr -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters -- not found in the variable pText -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, etc. -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider -- etc. -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr put true into failed repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList put item i of baseList into testNbr put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar if testChar is not in pText then -- found one, store and get next delim put false into failed put testChar into line tCount of delimList exit repeat end if end repeat if failed then if tCount = 0 then return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." else if tCount = 1 then return "Error: can only get one delimiter." else return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." end if end if delete item i of baseList end repeat return delimList end getDelimiters function howmany pStr, pContainer, pCaseSens -- how many times pStr occurs in pContainer -- note that howmany("00","000000") returns 3, not 5 -- ie, overlapping matches are not counted -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if pCaseSens = empty then put false into pCaseSens set the casesensitive to pCaseSens if pStr is not in pContainer then return 0 put len(pContainer) into origLength replace pStr with char 2 to -1 of pStr in pContainer return origLength - len(pContainer) end howmany end of code From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Oct 19 20:07:54 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 20:07:54 -0400 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <00c701d10acb$5e34ea20$1a9ebe60$@net> That's what Frank Zappa said about Jazz. "Jazz is not dead... it just smells funny" Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >OK, QuickTime is not dead, but it smells funny :-D >Best >Klaus >-- >Klaus Major >http://www.major-k.de >klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Mon Oct 19 20:11:14 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:11:14 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager Message-ID: Am I just not looking in the right place or did the GM disappear from the LC8 Properties Inspector? Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From pete at lcsql.com Mon Oct 19 20:19:40 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:19:40 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ..like wise the Table tab stuff - hgrid, vgrid, tabstops Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Am I just not looking in the right place or did the GM disappear from the > LC8 Properties Inspector? > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > From jiml at netrin.com Mon Oct 19 20:22:04 2015 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:22:04 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00DA3A47-82E5-4F93-9325-D0CE12C6F725@netrin.com> Peter, I?ve been enjoying these weekly posts. Thanks! Jim Lambert From irog at mac.com Mon Oct 19 23:43:50 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 20:43:50 -0700 Subject: Building a standalone fails under LC6.7.8rc1 and LC6.7.7, but is fine under LC6.7.6 In-Reply-To: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> References: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> Message-ID: I?m not sure if this helps, but I just built a Mac standalone of a 5 MB stack that uses the Copy Files tab to include assets in LC 6.7.7. Other than the scary amount of time it took ( a few minutes), I had no other problems. I am not using the Answer Dialog, but I am using the Ask dialog in my app and I?m on OS X 10.11. Roger > On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > > I am looking for bug confirmation and troubleshooting help before I > escalate this to LiveCode. > > I have a large project. It builds fine under LC6.7.6. I downloaded > LC6.7.8RC1 for testing. The StandAlone build fails under LC678rc1. And, > it fails under LC677, but can be repeatedly built under 676 (or > earlier). Development is on Windows, building for Windows and OSX. > > The symptoms of the failure are that I get the following two errors > (same error, once for the OSX build and once for the WIndows build) - > EVEN THOUGH my app does not include its own copies of the answer dialog > in the main stack or any substacks or any external stacks that get > loaded at runtime. > > A stack "answer dialog" in file > C:/Users/Paul/Desktop/HR400-LC676/HyperRESEARCH/OSX > x86-32/HyperRESEARCH.app/Contents/MacOS/HR_4.0.0.livecode is already in > memory. The LiveCode UI does not distinguish stacks which have identical > names, so editing these stack files while both are in memory could > result in data loss. > > A stack "answer dialog" in file > C:/Users/Paul/Desktop/HR400-LC676/HyperRESEARCH/Windows/HR_4.0.0.livecode is > already in memory. The LiveCode UI does not distinguish stacks which > have identical names, so editing these stack files while both are in > memory could results in data loss. > > Then a error occurs which is one of our app's startup errors about > missing components (external stacks loaded on startup) occurs and > LiveCode locks up. It appears that after the errors above, LiveCode is > reloading the my app FROM the standalone folder. > > Looking at the build folder on disk, only the HR_4.0.0.livecode stack > file is present. It has not been built into a standalone and none of the > external files, set in the Standalone Settings > Copy Files tab have > been copied into the folders. The lack of any of teh external files, > could explain the 3rd error IF LiveCode is attempting to reload the app > from the build folder vs the folder it was loading into the IDE from. > > LiveCode locks up and a forced quit is required. > > So, before I escalate to LiveCode, has anyone else had any troubles > building under LC6.7.7 or under LC6.7.8rc1? > If you have build standalones under either of those versions, have then > been for both OSX and Win or just one of those platforms? > If you have built under 667 or 668 for either platform successfully, > does your app use the Copy Files tab to include any other stacks or > files with your app > If you have built under 667 or 668 for either platform successfully, > does your app use any instances of "answer" to have LC include the > answer dialog upon standalone build? > > Lastly, does any one know if the Standaone Build process was changed in > any way between LC 6.7.6 and 6.7.7? > > Thank you to anyone in advance for any specific information you can provide. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 00:36:58 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:36:58 +0800 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <56257E3D.7040801@tweedly.net> References: <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> <56257E3D.7040801@tweedly.net> Message-ID: This topic reminds me of time. If you think CSV is a standard that has no standard, making it difficult to program around, then don't even bother attempting to work with time. Here's a good summary - make sure you watch to the very end where he discusses the Google approach to one of the vary many idiosyncrasies of time you've probably never thought of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY Thought you may enjoy whilst nutting out your CSV algo. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 01:00:27 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:00:27 +0800 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It appears to be a 'smart' option. If your field is large enough and contains data that could be interpreted as a table then when you select the field the property inspector gives you an extra 'table' tool. So for me, a couple of one line fields I have when I select the property inspector the third tool across the top is 'Colors', but if I select a large field with multiple lines of formatted text in it, the third tool becomes the 'Table' tool and Colors and the rest are moved to the right. As for the GM I don't see it, but in the Object menu there is an 'Align Selected Controls' option that may help. As a side note, when I select multiple items, in LC8 the details of the last selected item is displayed in the property inspector. I think this is dangerous, this is not how previous versions worked, LC recognised you had multiple items selected and I think automatically displayed the GM tab; you could manually select, say the Content tab but the details would be blank because sensibly, with multiple items, it's impossible to display the contents of multiple items. On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > ..like wise the Table tab stuff - hgrid, vgrid, tabstops > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Am I just not looking in the right place or did the GM disappear from the > > LC8 Properties Inspector? > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > SQLiteAdmin > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Oct 20 02:47:33 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:47:33 +0200 Subject: AW: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> Message-ID: <001901d10b03$32ec00f0$98c402d0$@kestner.de> Hi Peter, be aware that AVFoundation doesn't supports all video codecs as QT did. Same can happen, when a windows solution will come up. So even if you switch some time to the new LC media player, you might supply completely new coded videos. See the guidelines of AVFoundation. Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Peter Bogdanoff Gesendet: Dienstag, 20. Oktober 2015 00:12 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: Quicktime in Windows 10? If QT stops working, I am dead in the water for my projects, the major one that requires interoperability among OSX and all modern versions of Windows for a classroom of college students?it has to work for all of them, or it?s $ refunds back to all. But this danger goes away if LC suddenly, magically produces a player widget, and LC8 is good to go. I haven?t tested LC8 much, because without the universal player control I can?t use it. Peter On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:03 PM, Klaus major-k wrote: > Hi Paul, > >> Am 20.10.2015 um 00:00 schrieb Paul Dupuis : >> >> On 10/19/2015 5:44 PM, Klaus major-k wrote: >>> QuickTime is dead, I?m afraid, so hopefully we'll see a new >>> crossplatform audio/video widget in the near future. >> >> Well QT is not dead. It runs and works under Windows (XP to 10) and >> OSX (through El Capitan). It's just that Apple will not provide any >> support/new releases IF some part of it stops working under some >> future OS change, so there is risk that QT could stop working with >> the next Apple or Microsoft OS patch. QT might still work under >> Windows 11 and OSX 10.12 OR a minor security update to either OS >> could break QT for good tomorrow. > > OK, QuickTime is not dead, but it smells funny :-D > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Oct 20 07:21:13 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:21:13 +0200 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <00c701d10acb$5e34ea20$1a9ebe60$@net> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> <00c701d10acb$5e34ea20$1a9ebe60$@net> Message-ID: Hi Ralph, > Am 20.10.2015 um 02:07 schrieb Ralph DiMola : > > > That's what Frank Zappa said about Jazz. > "Jazz is not dead... it just smells funny? yes, I dared to adapt it to suit our current problem :-) > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> OK, QuickTime is not dead, but it smells funny :-D Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Oct 20 10:10:16 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:10:16 -0400 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> <00c701d10acb$5e34ea20$1a9ebe60$@net> Message-ID: <001c01d10b41$0c03cb10$240b6130$@net> Nice... I love to see FZ references now and again. "The present day composers refuse to die" Edgard Var?se Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 7:21 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Quicktime in Windows 10? Hi Ralph, > Am 20.10.2015 um 02:07 schrieb Ralph DiMola : > > > That's what Frank Zappa said about Jazz. > "Jazz is not dead... it just smells funny? yes, I dared to adapt it to suit our current problem :-) > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> OK, QuickTime is not dead, but it smells funny :-D Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Oct 20 10:09:31 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:09:31 +0100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor Message-ID: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> Hi all, == Atom language-livecode package 0.6.0 == The "language-livecode" package for the Atom editor (https://atom.io/) provides syntax highlighting and indentation support for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb), LiveCode Script (.livecodescript), and LiveCode Server (.lc / .irev) source files. == Installation Install the "language-livecode" package from the Atom user interface. == Notable changes in 0.6.0 * LiveCode Script grammar and snippets generated from documentation * Support for script-only stacks (`.livecodescript`) * Linting & syntax checking for LiveCode Script files * Initial linting support for LiveCode Builder source files == Reporting issues Please report issues to https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Tue Oct 20 10:13:09 2015 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> <56256D45.7020806@fourthworld.com> <2C1282AD-6EA8-4164-8BFC-89ECDC6F164C@me.com> <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> Richard Gaskin wrote > The team patched a few bugs in their Windows media playback a few > versions back, so if you haven't tried it recently you may be pleasantly > surprised. Richard, can you elaborate? Which version or which bugs? Richard Gaskin wrote > ... under the current plan I don't > expect to see media playback for Win or Linux overhauled for at > least another year, if not longer, so we need to explore other > solutions for now. That's a scary long time for us multimedia developers. Thanks, Tom -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Quicktime-in-Windows-10-tp4697683p4697720.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Oct 20 11:47:02 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:47:02 +0200 Subject: AW: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> <56256D45.7020806@fourthworld.com> <2C1282AD-6EA8-4164-8BFC-89ECDC6F164C@me.com> <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <00f101d10b4e$90518030$b0f48090$@kestner.de> + 1! Richard Gaskin wrote > ... under the current plan I don't > expect to see media playback for Win or Linux overhauled for at least > another year, if not longer, so we need to explore other solutions for > now. That's a scary long time for us multimedia developers. Thanks, Tom -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Quicktime-in-Windows-10-tp469 7683p4697720.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 11:49:09 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:49:09 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <001c01d10b41$0c03cb10$240b6130$@net> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> <00c701d10acb$5e34ea20$1a9ebe60$@net> <001c01d10b41$0c03cb10$240b6130$@net> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > "The present day composers refuse to die" > Edgard Var?se > "Economics advances one funeral at a time" Paul Samuelson, Nobel Winner, author of standard textbook of his era, and several decades out of date at the time he said it -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From klaus at major-k.de Tue Oct 20 11:57:07 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:57:07 +0200 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <00f101d10b4e$90518030$b0f48090$@kestner.de> References: <56255CF7.4080700@researchware.com> <562567F2.1000809@researchware.com> <5A6AED0A-F988-4095-8E27-BD93C455B9A1@major-k.de> <9F50E017-2C74-4C52-809F-A8FE5C563A1A@me.com> <56256D45.7020806@fourthworld.com> <2C1282AD-6EA8-4164-8BFC-89ECDC6F164C@me.com> <562574B8.6060401@fourthworld.com> <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> <00f101d10b4e$90518030$b0f48090$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <8EDA1E18-967E-4539-8E30-D12ABCE21470@major-k.de> > Am 20.10.2015 um 17:47 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB : > > + 1! > > Richard Gaskin wrote >> ... under the current plan I don't >> expect to see media playback for Win or Linux overhauled for at least >> another year, if not longer, so we need to explore other solutions for >> now. > > That's a scary long time for us multimedia developers. and a real shame! :-/ > Thanks, > Tom -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 20 12:04:34 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:04:34 +0200 Subject: Vector =?UTF-8?Q?images=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> On 2015-10-09 18:57, Richmond wrote: > Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as > vector graphics > was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? Well that very much depends on what you mean by 'vector images' ;) The exact Kickstarter stretch goal was this: Vector Shape Object Like the graphic object on steroids. Sub-pixel positioning, shape determined by intrinsic properties (i.e. width of rectangle, radius of circle etc.). 'Group' type, containing a collection of shapes to be nested - and imported/exported in a (subset of) SVG. There is still some more work needed on the widget's architecture to make this a reality (mainly related to ensuring that the rect of the widget is determined by its internal geometry, rather than the other way round which makes BIG difference if you want to do effective and tile-able affine transformations and avoid animation 'jitter' from issues surrounding aligning to an integer grid). However, after spending some time at a weekend recently playing with a small subset-SVG-parsing library I found, I've come up with this: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3089. This widget enables rendering of simple SVG files consisting of shapes, paths, transforms, stroke properties, color fills, linear and radial gradients. This is nowhere near the whole of SVG, certainly, but is a useful enough subset for icons and such I'd have thought. I'm currently working out how we can hook such widgets into the 'icon' mechanism in the engine - meaning that such a widget could be used as the source of icons in buttons and imgSrcs in fields. Also, it would be good if there could be some sharing of the parsed SVG data structures if multiple SVG widgets reference the same file (a bit like referenced image objects share in-memory representations to minimize memory cost). It isn't quite ready for inclusion in a build so it will unlikely be in DP8 (due this week), I'm hoping it will be ready shortly after that though. Just thought people might be interested in this (little) development :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 13:19:20 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:19:20 +0300 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56267798.1030208@gmail.com> On 20/10/15 19:04, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-09 18:57, Richmond wrote: >> Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as >> vector graphics >> was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? > > Well that very much depends on what you mean by 'vector images' ;) > > The exact Kickstarter stretch goal was this: > > Vector Shape Object > > Like the graphic object on steroids. Sub-pixel positioning, > shape determined by intrinsic properties (i.e. width of rectangle, > radius of circle etc.). 'Group' type, containing a collection of > shapes to be nested - and imported/exported in a (subset of) SVG. > > There is still some more work needed on the widget's architecture to > make this a reality (mainly related to ensuring that the rect of the > widget is determined by its internal geometry, rather than the other > way round which makes BIG difference if you want to do effective and > tile-able affine transformations and avoid animation 'jitter' from > issues surrounding aligning to an integer grid). > > However, after spending some time at a weekend recently playing with a > small subset-SVG-parsing library I found, I've come up with this: > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3089. > > This widget enables rendering of simple SVG files consisting of > shapes, paths, transforms, stroke properties, color fills, linear and > radial gradients. This is nowhere near the whole of SVG, certainly, > but is a useful enough subset for icons and such I'd have thought. > > I'm currently working out how we can hook such widgets into the 'icon' > mechanism in the engine - meaning that such a widget could be used as > the source of icons in buttons and imgSrcs in fields. Also, it would > be good if there could be some sharing of the parsed SVG data > structures if multiple SVG widgets reference the same file (a bit like > referenced image objects share in-memory representations to minimize > memory cost). > > It isn't quite ready for inclusion in a build so it will unlikely be > in DP8 (due this week), I'm hoping it will be ready shortly after that > though. > > Just thought people might be interested in this (little) development :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > That certainly looks exciting. What I was wondering about was the ability to make SVG files externally and then import them, and, similarly, to export vector graphics from LiveCode in SVG format. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 13:27:59 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:27:59 +0300 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions Message-ID: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> Fairly hacked off to receive and advert for THIS on my Facebook page: https://www.dashlane.com/en/lp/neverforget-teal?utm_campaign=1841393610&utm_medium=paid_social&utm_source=FBdesktop&nan_pid=1841393610 mainly because when you get to the webpage it: 1. Assumes that you are running Microsoft Windows, and, as an after-thought, 2. Offers a Macintosh version. Some of us are neither, and resent this kind of 'push' that makes all sorts of unwarranted assumptions about what we run on our computers, why we run it, and what we do with it. Where do these people live? In the same stupid, limited world where 90% of school teachers and school systems dwell; the place where every square peg must be beaten and hammered to fit into a round hole. I sometimes wonder why LiveCode don't take advantage of that and present themselves as the "anti-programmer's programming suite", the "un-code" the "to-h*ll-with-the-command-line-language": there should be a lot of uptake. Richmond. P.S. I also use my computer to iron my socks. From paul at researchware.com Tue Oct 20 13:42:34 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:42:34 -0400 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56267D0A.6000908@researchware.com> On 10/20/2015 1:27 PM, Richmond wrote: > Some of us are neither, and resent this kind of 'push' that makes all > sorts of > unwarranted assumptions about what we run on our computers, why we run > it, > and what we do with it. It it absolutely your prerogative to be ticked off. Just as it is the prerogative of software vendors to offer software on the platforms that represent the majority of perspective customers. With Linux at 1.74% and "Other" at 4.66% of the desktop market, most vendors are not going to foot the development costs for a Linux version. Especially if they choose development languages and tools that do not do multi-platform builds like LiveCode. Even then everyone on this list knows that LC still doesn't delivery the same parity of features to Linux that you have under OSX and Windows. Market Share Source: https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 20 13:43:19 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:43:19 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56267D37.9090201@fourthworld.com> Kay C Lan wrote: > It appears to be a 'smart' option. > > If your field is large enough and contains data that could be interpreted > as a table then when you select the field the property inspector gives you > an extra 'table' tool. So for me, a couple of one line fields I have when I > select the property inspector the third tool across the top is 'Colors', > but if I select a large field with multiple lines of formatted text in it, > the third tool becomes the 'Table' tool and Colors and the rest are moved > to the right. How large is "large"? How does one turn an empty rectangle field into a table field? Sometimes I use single-line fields with table formatting (vgrid), sometimes multi-line, sometimes I use vgrid with listBehavior, sometimes without.... Rather than the IDE try to guess what I'm going, perhaps it could simply provide options for the selected object and let me make my own choices. Adjusting the order of buttons prevents people from acquiring muscle memory with the tool, already made surprisingly difficult with the small target area for the tab icons. After all, the whole point of moving from the option control to tab icons was for ease of access, and Fitts' Law and all that.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Tue Oct 20 14:02:38 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:02:38 +0200 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562681BE.2060204@economy-x-talk.com> Adblock is great. Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/20/2015 om 19:27 schreef Richmond: > Fairly hacked off to receive and advert for THIS on my Facebook page: > > https://www.dashlane.com/en/lp/neverforget-teal?utm_campaign=1841393610&utm_medium=paid_social&utm_source=FBdesktop&nan_pid=1841393610 > > > mainly because when you get to the webpage it: > > 1. Assumes that you are running Microsoft Windows, > > and, as an after-thought, > > 2. Offers a Macintosh version. > > Some of us are neither, and resent this kind of 'push' that makes all > sorts of > unwarranted assumptions about what we run on our computers, why we run > it, > and what we do with it. > > Where do these people live? In the same stupid, limited world where > 90% of > school teachers and school systems dwell; the place where every square > peg > must be beaten and hammered to fit into a round hole. > > I sometimes wonder why LiveCode don't take advantage of that and > present themselves as > the "anti-programmer's programming suite", the "un-code" the > "to-h*ll-with-the-command-line-language": > there should be a lot of uptake. > > Richmond. > > P.S. I also use my computer to iron my socks. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 20 14:18:12 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:18:12 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <56268564.4000604@fourthworld.com> tbodine wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote >> The team patched a few bugs in their Windows media playback a >> few versions back, so if you haven't tried it recently you may >> be pleasantly surprised. > > Richard, can you elaborate? Which version or which bugs? I read the Release Notes for every build that comes out. To find the issues resolved I'd have to replicate that effort, or anyone here could do the same: But that would be tedious, and given the potential for regressions not especially useful compared with the simpler alternative: Use the latest v7.1 build and see what happens when you use the player object on a system without QuickTime installed. This is far simpler than wading through the last dozen or so Release Notes, and will give you a very specific understanding of the state of the engine as it relates to your project's media needs. Of course if you find any outstanding issues please report them - since media playback issues have been outstanding for such a long time for both Windows and Linux, before filing a new report it may be useful to first do a quick search to see if one has already been reported, and if so add your notes about your system version and LC version along with you recipe to the report: > Richard Gaskin wrote >> ... under the current plan I don't >> expect to see media playback for Win or Linux overhauled for at >> least another year, if not longer, so we need to explore other >> solutions for now. > > That's a scary long time for us multimedia developers. Not necessarily, at least not for folks deploying to Windows (which I hope is everyone here because they continue to enjoy some 86% of the desktop market). It may be that the improvements on Windows thus far will satisfy most needs. It may even be that polling callbacks is not much more CPU intensive than relying on system-media-engine callback messages (can't say because I'm running Linux right now - more on that in a moment). If there are enough outstanding needs for improved media playback on Windows, giving the staggering importance of that platform it would seem self-evident that it's in the company's interest to reevaluate priorities accordingly. But please keep this in mind: Apple killed QuickTime quite some time ago, and the number of posts here with "scary" stories about their Windows apps has been few. Give it a go, let's evaluate what's working and not working, and move forward with real actionable information. With any luck the situation may not be that scary at all. At least for Windows. On Linux, an anecdote: Last night I literally had a dream in which I rapidly built a video player in Linux using LiveCode. I was several minutes into it, with a list field that let me select video files which would play in a player control, every bit as easily and reliably as I'd enjoyed on my Mac, but here I was using the OS made by my friends on the Ubuntu team. At some point in the dream I had a lucid moment in which I asked myself, "Am I dreaming? Players don't work in LiveCode on Linux." Shortly afterward I woke up, and re-entered the world my lucid dreaming self had so accurately recalled. Video used to be simple on Linux in MetaCard, but for many years it's been completely broken in LiveCode, worse with each release. First videos stuttered with artifacts, then a couple versions later they played with black areas rendered as transparent, and in the last several "stable" releases spanning a year or two simply setting the filename property of a player object to any valid media file, files that play marvelously in all the other media apps I have installed, bring LiveCode to its knees with a hard crash. Windows developers don't know how good they have it. :) It would be super cool if I were in a position to dictate to my users what computers they should buy, or do as one of my friends does and bundle computers with my software to avoid OS-specific issues. But it turns out I have no such sway with my customers. I simply can't require them to throw their computers away and replace them with Macs just to run my application. Instead, I have to deliver to any OS LiveCode is said to support. And in time, perhaps it will work as described. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 20 14:34:21 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:34:21 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: <56267D37.9090201@fourthworld.com> References: <56267D37.9090201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: +1 tabstops is another property I use quite a bit in scrolling list fields which is no longer available in the LC8 PI. Will the geometry manager appear at some point? I know it's a bit rough round the edges for complex situations but I've always found it to work quite well for simple resizing. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Kay C Lan wrote: > > It appears to be a 'smart' option. >> >> If your field is large enough and contains data that could be interpreted >> as a table then when you select the field the property inspector gives you >> an extra 'table' tool. So for me, a couple of one line fields I have when >> I >> select the property inspector the third tool across the top is 'Colors', >> but if I select a large field with multiple lines of formatted text in it, >> the third tool becomes the 'Table' tool and Colors and the rest are moved >> to the right. >> > > How large is "large"? How does one turn an empty rectangle field into a > table field? Sometimes I use single-line fields with table formatting > (vgrid), sometimes multi-line, sometimes I use vgrid with listBehavior, > sometimes without.... > > Rather than the IDE try to guess what I'm going, perhaps it could simply > provide options for the selected object and let me make my own choices. > > Adjusting the order of buttons prevents people from acquiring muscle > memory with the tool, already made surprisingly difficult with the small > target area for the tab icons. After all, the whole point of moving from > the option control to tab icons was for ease of access, and Fitts' Law and > all that.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Oct 20 14:34:58 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:34:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager References: <56267D37.9090201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard Gaskin writes: > Rather than the IDE try to guess what I'm going, perhaps it could simply > provide options for the selected object and let me make my own choices. Now, Richard, runrev knows what's best for you better than you do. Just let them make the decisions and stop Questioning Authority. ...next stop The Ribbon... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Oct 20 14:36:33 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:36:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager References: <56267D37.9090201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Peter Haworth writes: > ...a bit rough round the edges LOL -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 20 14:46:00 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:46:00 -0700 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56268BE8.1040301@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > Fairly hacked off to receive and advert for THIS on my Facebook page: > > > > mainly because when you get to the webpage it: > > 1. Assumes that you are running Microsoft Windows, > > and, as an after-thought, > > 2. Offers a Macintosh version. > > Some of us are neither, and resent this kind of 'push' that makes all > sorts of unwarranted assumptions about what we run on our computers, > why we run it, and what we do with it. The desktop is a Windows story. With 86% of the market, both Mac and Linux as niche players there. But the average price of a Mac is roughly twice the average price of a Windows-compatible PC, making that segment an unusually desirable demographic disproportionate to its market share. Globally Mac is roughly at 11%, but interestingly Ubuntu alone has more users today than Mac had when Steve came back. But it's a different market from the perspective of a consumer services vendor: Linux is being standardized at a growing number of government agencies and universities around the world, but the chief of police in France probably isn't using his company computer to click ads on Facebook. The US Army is Red Hat's largest customer, but we hope the folks at CENTCOM aren't spending their time on Facebook, nor the missile fleet managers who switched to Linux two years ago because of critical security flaws in Windows, just as a Stuxnet infiltration on the International Space Station prompted them to switch to Linux last summer. That's the irony of Linux: beyond the desktop, with servers, phones and tablets running Android Linux, embedded systems (most of the readers here already manage a Linux server in the form of their wifi routers), IoT devices, and supercomputing, in all things bigger and smaller than the desktop, Linux has become the de facto standard of modern computing. But on the desktop it's a modest player and likely always will be. That said, Netflix finally opened up to Linux last year, and I'd like to give my annual emails to them credit for that but it was of course the sum of all such emails that prompted them to realize the opportunity. For the low cost of a modest working arrangement with Google (who has standardized internally on Ubuntu in a special build outfitted with their VPN and other packages they call "Gubuntu"), Chrome for Linux now support Netflix splendidly. I became a subscriber shortly after I got the news. Valve also ported Steam to Linux, with more than 1300 titles available for penguin fans. They caught wind of the opportunity when it became consistently evident that the famous Humble Bundle set-your-own-price game offerings were seeing a much higher amount of per-user revenue from Linux fans over even Mac. But some goods and services will do better than others, and as Paul noted it's up to the vendor to make that determination themselves. If they're truly leaving money on the table, the only way to distinguish your reason for not paying them because of a lack of Linux support from the thousands of other bounces any web site owner sees in their logs can happen only when you write them politely to request it. Worked for Netflix, Steam, and others. Might work for the folks you were dealing with too. And if not, every business segment is an economic democracy: one dollar, one vote. Just as we learned during Mac's lean years in the '90s, support those who support the OS you enjoy and others will catch wind in due time. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Tue Oct 20 14:49:03 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:49:03 -0400 Subject: Building a standalone fails under LC6.7.8rc1 and LC6.7.7, but is fine under LC6.7.6 In-Reply-To: References: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> Message-ID: <56268C9F.7060306@researchware.com> On 10/19/2015 11:43 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > I?m not sure if this helps, but I just built a Mac standalone of a 5 MB stack that uses the Copy Files tab to include assets in LC 6.7.7. Other than the scary amount of time it took ( a few minutes), I had no other problems. I am not using the Answer Dialog, but I am using the Ask dialog in my app and I?m on OS X 10.11. > > Roger Thank you. Every bit of data may help. Honestly, given you are the only response (so far), I have to wonder how many people are actually using 677 or trying 678 vs either having moved on to 7.x or are still at older versions. From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 20 15:00:13 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:00:13 +0100 Subject: Building a standalone fails under LC6.7.8rc1 and LC6.7.7, but is fine under LC6.7.6 In-Reply-To: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> References: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> Message-ID: <33F7643D-0A28-44E8-95CA-4633843DCC5C@livecode.com> Hi Paul, Can you file a bug report about this? There was a little churn in the s/b between .6 and .7. One thing to check is you use savingStandalone or standaloneSaved messages. These have caused problems in the past and subtle changes in the s/b has usually triggered them. Warmest Regards, Mark Sent from my iPhone > On 19 Oct 2015, at 23:08, Paul Dupuis wrote: > > I am looking for bug confirmation and troubleshooting help before I > escalate this to LiveCode. > > I have a large project. It builds fine under LC6.7.6. I downloaded > LC6.7.8RC1 for testing. The StandAlone build fails under LC678rc1. And, > it fails under LC677, but can be repeatedly built under 676 (or > earlier). Development is on Windows, building for Windows and OSX. > > The symptoms of the failure are that I get the following two errors > (same error, once for the OSX build and once for the WIndows build) - > EVEN THOUGH my app does not include its own copies of the answer dialog > in the main stack or any substacks or any external stacks that get > loaded at runtime. > > A stack "answer dialog" in file > C:/Users/Paul/Desktop/HR400-LC676/HyperRESEARCH/OSX > x86-32/HyperRESEARCH.app/Contents/MacOS/HR_4.0.0.livecode is already in > memory. The LiveCode UI does not distinguish stacks which have identical > names, so editing these stack files while both are in memory could > result in data loss. > > A stack "answer dialog" in file > C:/Users/Paul/Desktop/HR400-LC676/HyperRESEARCH/Windows/HR_4.0.0.livecode is > already in memory. The LiveCode UI does not distinguish stacks which > have identical names, so editing these stack files while both are in > memory could results in data loss. > > Then a error occurs which is one of our app's startup errors about > missing components (external stacks loaded on startup) occurs and > LiveCode locks up. It appears that after the errors above, LiveCode is > reloading the my app FROM the standalone folder. > > Looking at the build folder on disk, only the HR_4.0.0.livecode stack > file is present. It has not been built into a standalone and none of the > external files, set in the Standalone Settings > Copy Files tab have > been copied into the folders. The lack of any of teh external files, > could explain the 3rd error IF LiveCode is attempting to reload the app > from the build folder vs the folder it was loading into the IDE from. > > LiveCode locks up and a forced quit is required. > > So, before I escalate to LiveCode, has anyone else had any troubles > building under LC6.7.7 or under LC6.7.8rc1? > If you have build standalones under either of those versions, have then > been for both OSX and Win or just one of those platforms? > If you have built under 667 or 668 for either platform successfully, > does your app use the Copy Files tab to include any other stacks or > files with your app > If you have built under 667 or 668 for either platform successfully, > does your app use any instances of "answer" to have LC include the > answer dialog upon standalone build? > > Lastly, does any one know if the Standaone Build process was changed in > any way between LC 6.7.6 and 6.7.7? > > Thank you to anyone in advance for any specific information you can provide. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 20 15:01:50 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:01:50 +0100 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> This sounds like those properties have been keyed to something being a 'Rev table field' which uses a front script to 'improve' table like behavior. Could you file a bug report? Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Oct 2015, at 01:19, Peter Haworth wrote: > > ..like wise the Table tab stuff - hgrid, vgrid, tabstops > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >> >> Am I just not looking in the right place or did the GM disappear from the >> LC8 Properties Inspector? >> Pete >> lcSQL Software >> Home of lcStackBrowser and >> SQLiteAdmin > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From warren at warrensweb.us Tue Oct 20 15:02:29 2015 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:02:29 -0500 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56268FC5.6000007@warrensweb.us> On 10/20/2015 12:27 PM, Richmond wrote: > > P.S. I also use my computer to iron my socks. Maybe you should put another fan or two in it! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 20 15:04:02 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:04:02 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56269022.6030509@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Richard Gaskin writes: > >> Rather than the IDE try to guess what I'm going, perhaps it could >> simply provide options for the selected object and let me make my >> own choices. > > Now, Richard, runrev knows what's best for you better than you do. > Just let them make the decisions and stop Questioning Authority. > Ah, I see: Steve Jobs faked his death so he could secretly work on LiveCode? :) Like the File -> New Stack submenu, the Inspector's shortcomings are obvious enough that I'm confident what we have now is merely a quickie prototype for a much better user experience to come as v8 moves closer to completion. > ...next stop The Ribbon... At the risk of having more food thrown at me, I actually like many things about the Ribbon. I have great respect for data-driven the methodology employed by Jensen Harris and his team, very similar to Marissa Mayer's best work at Google before she left and their apps became cluttered. If you look back as Harris' design blog during the Ribbon's development and read between the lines it becomes clear that the implementation we see today is a compromise likely driven by impatient middle managers more than where the team was headed. Not useful in a development tool like LiveCode, but for many consumer apps I think the Ribbon can be a good choice, perhaps better with more time in researching to refine it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Oct 20 15:35:22 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:35:22 -0700 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> Message-ID: Mark, what you describe sounds great. Even a subset of SVG capabilities is very welcome. But I have to ask, partly because I'm clueless when it comes to low level programming, but also because I'm curious: does it make sense to have two "realms" of graphics? There are card based (native) graphics, and then there are the graphics inside widgets. I recall reading that all of the graphics rendering in LC was going to be moved over to the skia graphics library. Is this what enables the display of SVG in widgets or is graphics rendering in widgets based on something else? What prevents the display of SVG graphics outside of a widget? As it stands, there are graphics capabilities within widgets that don't apply to native graphics. Would it not make more sense to have a single universal approach to all graphics in LC? And to confirm your comment, yes, some of us people are definitely interested in your (little) development. Best Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/20/15, 9:04 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham" wrote: >On 2015-10-09 18:57, Richmond wrote: >> Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as >> vector graphics >> was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? > >Well that very much depends on what you mean by 'vector images' ;) > >The exact Kickstarter stretch goal was this: > > Vector Shape Object > > Like the graphic object on steroids. Sub-pixel positioning, > shape determined by intrinsic properties (i.e. width of rectangle, > radius of circle etc.). 'Group' type, containing a collection of > shapes to be nested - and imported/exported in a (subset of) SVG. > >There is still some more work needed on the widget's architecture to >make this a reality (mainly related to ensuring that the rect of the >widget is determined by its internal geometry, rather than the other way >round which makes BIG difference if you want to do effective and >tile-able affine transformations and avoid animation 'jitter' from >issues surrounding aligning to an integer grid). > >However, after spending some time at a weekend recently playing with a >small subset-SVG-parsing library I found, I've come up with this: >https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3089. > >This widget enables rendering of simple SVG files consisting of shapes, >paths, transforms, stroke properties, color fills, linear and radial >gradients. This is nowhere near the whole of SVG, certainly, but is a >useful enough subset for icons and such I'd have thought. > >I'm currently working out how we can hook such widgets into the 'icon' >mechanism in the engine - meaning that such a widget could be used as >the source of icons in buttons and imgSrcs in fields. Also, it would be >good if there could be some sharing of the parsed SVG data structures if >multiple SVG widgets reference the same file (a bit like referenced >image objects share in-memory representations to minimize memory cost). > >It isn't quite ready for inclusion in a build so it will unlikely be in >DP8 (due this week), I'm hoping it will be ready shortly after that >though. > >Just thought people might be interested in this (little) development :) > >Warmest Regards, > >Mark. > >-- >Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 15:49:43 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:49:43 +0300 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> Message-ID: <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> On 20/10/15 22:35, Scott Rossi wrote: > Mark, what you describe sounds great. Even a subset of SVG capabilities > is very welcome. > > But I have to ask, partly because I'm clueless when it comes to low level > programming, but also because I'm curious: does it make sense to have two > "realms" of graphics? There are card based (native) graphics, and then > there are the graphics inside widgets. I recall reading that all of the > graphics rendering in LC was going to be moved over to the skia graphics > library. Is this what enables the display of SVG in widgets or is > graphics rendering in widgets based on something else? What prevents the > display of SVG graphics outside of a widget? As it stands, there are > graphics capabilities within widgets that don't apply to native graphics. > Would it not make more sense to have a single universal approach to all > graphics in LC? This is a very important question to which the answer really does need to be "Yes". Now, I am a person who works at the "kiddy" end of LiveCode who makes no pretensions to understand the inner workings of an SVG file as opposed to that of a PNG file. What I do know is that as there is a menu item to either import or reference images that would seem the logical place for SVG images to be handled. A longish time ago LiveCode (then called Revolution) allowed one to import EPS vector images via the menu system: why SVG images need to be handled in a completely different way vis-a-vis the GUI entirely escapes me. > > And to confirm your comment, yes, some of us people are definitely > interested in your (little) development. The ability to import, export, manipulate and, possibly, manufacture SVG images in LiveCode is not a "little" development, it is very important. Vector graphics are part of what we could call "the standard set", and indeed have been for rather longer than perhaps most people are aware, and RunRev's decision to drop EPS image import seemed odd and wrong at the time it happened: importing SVG images would serve to rectify what I, for one, feel was a backward move. > > Best Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design More strength to your SVG elbow! Richmond. > > > > On 10/20/15, 9:04 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham" > > wrote: > >> On 2015-10-09 18:57, Richmond wrote: >>> Why do I have a feeling that the ability to import vector images as >>> vector graphics >>> was meant to be one of the goals of the kickstarter? >> Well that very much depends on what you mean by 'vector images' ;) >> >> The exact Kickstarter stretch goal was this: >> >> Vector Shape Object >> >> Like the graphic object on steroids. Sub-pixel positioning, >> shape determined by intrinsic properties (i.e. width of rectangle, >> radius of circle etc.). 'Group' type, containing a collection of >> shapes to be nested - and imported/exported in a (subset of) SVG. >> >> There is still some more work needed on the widget's architecture to >> make this a reality (mainly related to ensuring that the rect of the >> widget is determined by its internal geometry, rather than the other way >> round which makes BIG difference if you want to do effective and >> tile-able affine transformations and avoid animation 'jitter' from >> issues surrounding aligning to an integer grid). >> >> However, after spending some time at a weekend recently playing with a >> small subset-SVG-parsing library I found, I've come up with this: >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3089. >> >> This widget enables rendering of simple SVG files consisting of shapes, >> paths, transforms, stroke properties, color fills, linear and radial >> gradients. This is nowhere near the whole of SVG, certainly, but is a >> useful enough subset for icons and such I'd have thought. >> >> I'm currently working out how we can hook such widgets into the 'icon' >> mechanism in the engine - meaning that such a widget could be used as >> the source of icons in buttons and imgSrcs in fields. Also, it would be >> good if there could be some sharing of the parsed SVG data structures if >> multiple SVG widgets reference the same file (a bit like referenced >> image objects share in-memory representations to minimize memory cost). >> >> It isn't quite ready for inclusion in a build so it will unlikely be in >> DP8 (due this week), I'm hoping it will be ready shortly after that >> though. >> >> Just thought people might be interested in this (little) development :) >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Oct 20 16:34:46 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:34:46 -0500 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5626A566.7080308@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/20/2015 2:49 PM, Richmond wrote: > RunRev's decision to drop EPS image import > seemed odd and wrong at the time it happened It's still listed in the "import" command in the dictionary. EPS has always been available only on Linux, so it will fail anywhere else. You could try it and see if the dictionary is wrong. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Oct 20 16:35:51 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:35:51 +1100 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2C645112-AD3A-4A58-84CB-430DC6154B17@sweattechnologies.com> > On 21 Oct 2015, at 6:49 am, Richmond wrote: > > A longish time ago LiveCode (then called Revolution) allowed one to import EPS vector images > via the menu system: why SVG images need to be handled in a completely different way vis-a-vis > the GUI entirely escapes me. I think you are confusing the fact that it is implemented as a widget and how the IDE might or might not integrate it. It seems reasonable to me that widgets that represent files might have some way to hook into the file menu which would give you what you are looking for here. As far as the two levels of graphics that?s not really the case. Actually we have two levels of drawing with LCB widgets built around providing access to what skia can do. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 20 16:45:13 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:45:13 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> References: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> Message-ID: Done - 16248. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > This sounds like those properties have been keyed to something being a > 'Rev table field' which uses a front script to 'improve' table like > behavior. > > Could you file a bug report? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 20 Oct 2015, at 01:19, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > ..like wise the Table tab stuff - hgrid, vgrid, tabstops > > > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > SQLiteAdmin > > > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> > >> Am I just not looking in the right place or did the GM disappear from > the > >> LC8 Properties Inspector? > >> Pete > >> lcSQL Software > >> Home of lcStackBrowser and > >> SQLiteAdmin > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Tue Oct 20 16:50:40 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:50:40 -0400 Subject: Building a standalone fails under LC6.7.8rc1 and LC6.7.7, but is fine under LC6.7.6 In-Reply-To: <33F7643D-0A28-44E8-95CA-4633843DCC5C@livecode.com> References: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> <33F7643D-0A28-44E8-95CA-4633843DCC5C@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5626A920.6010004@researchware.com> On 10/20/2015 3:00 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Hi Paul, > > Can you file a bug report about this? > > There was a little churn in the s/b between .6 and .7. > > One thing to check is you use savingStandalone or standaloneSaved messages. These have caused problems in the past and subtle changes in the s/b has usually triggered them. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark Mark, Thank you so much! With out your tip above, we could have spent ridiculous numbers of hours troubleshooting this. We have BOTH savingStandalone or standaloneSaved messages in the App. As a quick test, I commented both handlers out and it builds find under LC 6.7.8rc1. We can now try to narrow down WHAT in those handlers causes the build to fail under 677 and 678r1 but works under 676. It may take a day or 2 to file a bug report and sample stack, but at least now we know what to look at. -- Paul From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Oct 20 16:53:30 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:53:30 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> Message-ID: Aha! Now those of you that wanted to play with the linter after my premature announcement last month can have a go. > On 21 Oct 2015, at 1:09 am, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > Hi all, > > == Atom language-livecode package 0.6.0 == > > The "language-livecode" package for the Atom editor (https://atom.io/) provides syntax highlighting and indentation support for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb), LiveCode Script (.livecodescript), and LiveCode Server (.lc / .irev) source files. > > == Installation > > Install the "language-livecode" package from the Atom user interface. > > == Notable changes in 0.6.0 > > * LiveCode Script grammar and snippets generated from documentation > * Support for script-only stacks (`.livecodescript`) > * Linting & syntax checking for LiveCode Script files > * Initial linting support for LiveCode Builder source files > > == Reporting issues > > Please report issues to > https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 20 16:59:21 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:59:21 +0100 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <5626A566.7080308@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <5626A566.7080308@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Unfortunately it was only ever available on UNIX systems which had a 'display postscript' enabled X server. These were never... Cheap. Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Oct 2015, at 21:34, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 10/20/2015 2:49 PM, Richmond wrote: >> RunRev's decision to drop EPS image import >> seemed odd and wrong at the time it happened > > It's still listed in the "import" command in the dictionary. EPS has always been available only on Linux, so it will fail anywhere else. You could try it and see if the dictionary is wrong. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Oct 20 20:57:46 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:57:46 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: <56269022.6030509@fourthworld.com> References: <56269022.6030509@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5626E30A.5000304@ahsoftware.net> On 10/20/2015 12:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Like the File -> New Stack submenu, the Inspector's shortcomings are > obvious enough that I'm confident what we have now is merely a quickie > prototype for a much better user experience to come as v8 moves closer > to completion. Yeah. What worries me though is the removal of working albeit looked-down-upon parts and replacement by almost kind-of working parts that approach usability as if it were a stretch goal. I realize we're getting dp builds at this point, but I can't believe the team really uses these builds in their daily lives. > At the risk of having more food thrown at me /food thrown -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 02:08:05 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:08:05 +0800 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 4:45 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Done - 16248. > > I've added the following to your Bug Report: I was the one who added the List post and my comment was wrong - as I based it on a working Stack which already had populated fields. Working on a New Stack and moving new empty Label, Field, Scrolling Field, Table Field, and Scrolling List Field to a blank Card and then opening the Property Inspector I see the following: Table Tool not available for: Label and Field Table Tool available for: Scrolling Field, Table Field and Scrolling List Field Place tab delimited data into a Label or Field does NOT make the Table Tool available in the PI. There appears to be no way to set the Tab Stops for a Label or Field using the PI. On a slight tangent I also note that in the Property Inspector, for a Label and Field these properties appear in this order: 3-D Lock Text But are reversed for Scrolling Field, Table Field and Scrolling List Field and appear as: Lock Text 3-D From toolbook at kestner.de Wed Oct 21 02:25:20 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:25:20 +0200 Subject: AW: Building a standalone fails under LC6.7.8rc1 and LC6.7.7, but is fine under LC6.7.6 In-Reply-To: References: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> Message-ID: <001601d10bc9$43809f90$ca81deb0$@kestner.de> So I am not the only one, experiencing this delay of several 100% (see my thread: "slow down of building standalone in 6.7.") Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Roger Guay Gesendet: Dienstag, 20. Oktober 2015 05:44 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: Building a standalone fails under LC6.7.8rc1 and LC6.7.7, but is fine under LC6.7.6 >> in LC 6.7.7. Other than the scary amount of time it took ( a few minutes), I had no other problems. I am not using the Answer Dialog, but I am using the Ask dialog in my app and I?m on OS X 10.11. Roger From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 03:24:52 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:24:52 +0200 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> Message-ID: <9830e6f7290057cbc468f68f141c9b0d@livecode.com> On 2015-10-21 08:08, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 4:45 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Done - 16248. >> >> I've added the following to your Bug Report: > > I was the one who added the List post and my comment was wrong - as I > based > it on a working Stack which already had populated fields. Working on a > New > Stack and moving new empty Label, Field, Scrolling Field, Table Field, > and > Scrolling List Field to a blank Card and then opening the Property > Inspector I see the following: ... > But are reversed for Scrolling Field, Table Field and Scrolling List > Field > and appear as: > > Lock Text > 3-D > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Thanks for the bug report and updates to it. To explain what is going on here... The engine only has one type of field - the, well, 'field'. On the other hand, LiveCode from very early on has presented the user with various preconfigured field 'types' - label, table field, scrolling field, scrolling table field. The new Property Inspector runs on a set of data files which describe the engine controls along with these 'synthetic' views of the engine controls (for those of you who are interested - take a look in Toolset/resources/supporting_files/property_definitions inside the LiveCode App bundle). In this case what has happened is that the Tab Stops / vGrid / hGrid options which used to be available as part of the 'Table' tab for any field has (incorrectly) only been specified in the 'Table Field' description (which relates very specifically to the 'revTableField' frontScript). In previous versions, the 'Table' tab was available to all field types - but if you turned on 'Table Mode' you then lost the ability to specify vGrid / hGrid (as this was controlled by the frontScript). So this is an error in the translation of the previous property inspectors structure into the new model which should be extremely easy to fix. Similarly I suspect the different order of the properties between the two types of field (3-D / Lock Text) is probably due to a difference in ordering between the two definition files for 'Label' and the other (synthetic) field types. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 03:27:06 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:27:06 +0300 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <2C645112-AD3A-4A58-84CB-430DC6154B17@sweattechnologies.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <2C645112-AD3A-4A58-84CB-430DC6154B17@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <56273E4A.7040602@gmail.com> From a fairly bitchy point of view it does seem odd that Scratch, a sort of kiddy half-cock programming thing that strikes me as just the type of dumbing down that does children ultimately no favours at all can: Import, Create, and Export SVG files, while LiveCode cannot (yet???). http://www.wikihow.com/Import-and-Export-Vector-Images-in-Scratch-2.0 admittedly Scratch uses "an irregular SVG format": still, a lot better than nothing (not that you'll see me using Scratch except to rub somebody else's face it it). Richmond. From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 03:28:47 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:28:47 +0200 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: <56267D37.9090201@fourthworld.com> References: <56267D37.9090201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-20 19:43, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Adjusting the order of buttons prevents people from acquiring muscle > memory with the tool, already made surprisingly difficult with the > small target area for the tab icons. After all, the whole point of > moving from the option control to tab icons was for ease of access, > and Fitts' Law and all that.... Which is precisely why you can configure the size of the tab icons, and I believe there has been the suggestion that they should also be configurable as Icon / Text / Icon & Text. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 03:31:28 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:31:28 +0300 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <56273E4A.7040602@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <2C645112-AD3A-4A58-84CB-430DC6154B17@sweattechnologies.com> <56273E4A.7040602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56273F50.5030709@gmail.com> On 21/10/15 10:27, Richmond wrote: > From a fairly bitchy point of view it does seem odd > that Scratch, a sort of kiddy half-cock programming thing > that strikes me as just the type of dumbing down that does children > ultimately no favours at all can: > > Import, Create, and Export SVG files, > > while LiveCode cannot (yet???). > > http://www.wikihow.com/Import-and-Export-Vector-Images-in-Scratch-2.0 > > admittedly Scratch uses "an irregular SVG format": still, a lot better > than nothing > (not that you'll see me using Scratch except to rub somebody else's > face it it). > > Richmond. And . . . http://www.supercard.us/hypercard/ "SuperCard even supports high resolution bitmaps and vector graphics." what that actually entails is another question. R. From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 03:56:24 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:56:24 +0200 Subject: Vector =?UTF-8?Q?images=3F?= In-Reply-To: <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-20 21:49, Richmond wrote: > This is a very important question to which the answer really does need > to be "Yes". I think you are confusing the underlying ability to import and render SVG (which will be used by the components which are created to sit atop it - which the current development is a step towards), and how that might be integrated into other parts of the engine and exposed to the user in various ways. > What I do know is that as there is a menu item to either import or > reference images that would seem > the logical place for SVG images to be handled. Indeed. The current patch is just the lower-level bit which (a) allows various bits (well, widgets and potentially other parts of the engine) to parse and render SVG and (b) a widget which displays an SVG file. It would make perfect sense for the IDE to have an 'import svg' menu item or some such. > A longish time ago LiveCode (then called Revolution) allowed one to > import EPS vector images > via the menu system: why SVG images need to be handled in a completely > different way vis-a-vis > the GUI entirely escapes me. I'm sorry - but this has simply never ever been the case. EPS support only ever existed in UNIX builds of the engine for UNIX platforms which used Display PostScript. > The ability to import, export, manipulate and, possibly, manufacture > SVG images in LiveCode is not > a "little" development, it is very important. Indeed - it is important - although how important will depend entirely on what you are using LiveCode for. SVG, at the end of the day, is just text. LiveCode is good at processing text, so certainly export of SVG is something which can be done quite happily, and well (and indeed quite sensibly) in script. Indeed, there is even an SVG importer which has been around for a long time (although it is slightly limited by some restrictions on the LiveCode graphic object) also written in script. Now, I'm not saying that having builtin import and rendering of SVG is a great thing - because it is - however, it is by no means a panacea that will solve all problems - it will, however, solve specific problems for specific domains (some of which are, I suspect, ones that you face). Similarly, an 'export snapshot ... as svg' command would also be useful to solve specific problems for specific domains but, again, isn't going to do so for everyone. > Vector graphics are part of what we could call "the standard set", and > indeed have been for rather > longer than perhaps most people are aware, and RunRev's decision to > drop EPS image import > seemed odd and wrong at the time it happened: importing SVG images > would serve to rectify > what I, for one, feel was a backward move. Again - EPS support was never dropped. It never existed on Windows, Mac or Linux in the first place. > More strength to your SVG elbow! Just to go back to my point above about problem solving and applicable domain. For you (and many others), I can see why simple SVG import support is so important. There are a number of tools in the 'producing graphics' domain which generate SVG, and there are a large number of SVG files out there which have graphics which are highly suitable for the uses you are putting LiveCode to. However it is important to remember that not everyone uses LiveCode to the same ends - there will probably be as many people on this list who would see SVG as a much lower priority than . Serving such a broad user base with a 'high-level' tool such as ours is not an easy task as, ultimately, it takes time and human effort to add any feature that people might want/need. This is a huge part of the reason for 'why LCB and Widgets' - by making it MUCH easier to extend the engine in ways that are indistinguishable (or getting that way, anyway) from anything else in the engine we can get to a situation where many more people (beyond just 'us' behind the LiveCode Ltd. veil) can help others solve their LiveCode related problems. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 04:16:25 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:16:25 +0100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> On 20/10/2015 21:53, Monte Goulding wrote: > Aha! Now those of you that wanted to play with the linter after my premature announcement last month can have a go. > Sorry it took me so long to make the release! ;_; Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 04:54:28 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:54:28 +0300 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> On 21/10/15 10:56, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-20 21:49, Richmond wrote: >> This is a very important question to which the answer really does need >> to be "Yes". > > I think you are confusing the underlying ability to import and render > SVG (which will be used by the components which are created to sit > atop it - which the current development is a step towards), and how > that might be integrated into other parts of the engine and exposed to > the user in various ways. As an end-user ("bottom feeder" ???) I am concerned largely how that is "exposed to the user". I do not doubt your ability to do all the 'magic' (well, to me, at least, it is magic) in the background. I am not confusing anything: I know you can manage "the underlying ability to import and render SVG", and I am hoping you will expose that to the end-user via the menu for image import that is already in place in the GUI. > >> What I do know is that as there is a menu item to either import or >> reference images that would seem >> the logical place for SVG images to be handled. > > Indeed. The current patch is just the lower-level bit which (a) allows > various bits (well, widgets and potentially other parts of the engine) > to parse and render SVG and (b) a widget which displays an SVG file. > > It would make perfect sense for the IDE to have an 'import svg' menu > item or some such. > >> A longish time ago LiveCode (then called Revolution) allowed one to >> import EPS vector images >> via the menu system: why SVG images need to be handled in a completely >> different way vis-a-vis >> the GUI entirely escapes me. > > I'm sorry - but this has simply never ever been the case. EPS support > only ever existed in UNIX builds of the engine for UNIX platforms > which used Display PostScript. You got me there :) > >> The ability to import, export, manipulate and, possibly, manufacture >> SVG images in LiveCode is not >> a "little" development, it is very important. > > Indeed - it is important - although how important will depend entirely > on what you are using LiveCode for. Well, vector images are very widely used, and they do have the advantage over bitmapped ones in that they don't go "all fuzzy" when they are resized: that, at the very least, is a big plus, and IF (??????) the Geometry Manager is 'whatever' vector images would sit very nicely with that. > > SVG, at the end of the day, is just text. Well, aren't all 'documents' > LiveCode is good at processing text, so certainly export of SVG is > something which can be done quite happily, and well (and indeed quite > sensibly) in script. Indeed, there is even an SVG importer which has > been around for a long time (although it is slightly limited by some > restrictions on the LiveCode graphic object) also written in script. Alejandro . . . > > Now, I'm not saying that having builtin import and rendering of SVG is > a great thing - because it is - however, it is by no means a panacea > that will solve all problems - it will, however, solve specific > problems for specific domains (some of which are, I suspect, ones that > you face). I only suffer, except when I forget my "place in the world", from a need to churn out really extremely moronic programs for content delivery and reinforcement to 4-14 year-old EFL learners: and those could all be done with RR/LC version 2. If LiveCode were to stop functioning and go "poof" off the face of the Earth, although it would be extremely sad, I would be able to continue churning out those silly little programs with LC 2 - 4.5 on my out-of-date computers at least until I either retire, die, or go bonkers (well, um, some people may think that last one has already happened) whichever comes first. I use RR/LC 4.5 for my Devawriter Pro {Devanagari Sanskrit], PISMO [Cyrillic and Glagolitic Slavic] and Grendel [Anglo-Saxon, OHG and runes]. So, anything, post version 4.5 comes as an extremely happy bonus for me. So, notwithstanding all my fairly in-your-face criticisms, I think LiveCode rocks-its-socks; especially as a teaching medium for introducing young children to programming concepts. I would tell any teachers who are "financially challenged" [= skint] to get their hands on either a second-hand PPC Mac or a second-hand intel machine and install Mac OS 104/5 or a Debian derivative (respectively) and use RR/LiveCode for everything; coupled with GIMP. > > Similarly, an 'export snapshot ... as svg' command would also be > useful to solve specific problems for specific domains but, again, > isn't going to do so for everyone. Well, we all know what attempting to keep everybody happy at the same time results in: something that makes most people fed up. > >> Vector graphics are part of what we could call "the standard set", and >> indeed have been for rather >> longer than perhaps most people are aware, and RunRev's decision to >> drop EPS image import >> seemed odd and wrong at the time it happened: importing SVG images >> would serve to rectify >> what I, for one, feel was a backward move. > > Again - EPS support was never dropped. It never existed on Windows, > Mac or Linux in the first place. I still feel that Vector graphibs should be automatically "in the list": SuperCard seems to cope with them, and has for quite some time. > >> More strength to your SVG elbow! > > Just to go back to my point above about problem solving and applicable > domain. For you (and many others), I can see why simple SVG import > support is so important. There are a number of tools in the 'producing > graphics' domain which generate SVG, and there are a large number of > SVG files out there which have graphics which are highly suitable for > the uses you are putting LiveCode to. > > However it is important to remember that not everyone uses LiveCode to > the same ends - there will probably be as many people on this list who > would see SVG as a much lower priority than would help their particular problem domain and endeavours with LiveCode>. Indeed. But they are as entitled to bang-on about what they would like just as much as I am entitled to bang on about graphics. If they don't that is not my fault, and possibly their loss. As my grandfather said; "There is never any harm in asking." > > Serving such a broad user base with a 'high-level' tool such as ours > is not an easy task as, ultimately, it takes time and human effort to > add any feature that people might want/need. I share your pain. I have about 60 sets of parents who are perpetually bothering me because "little Ivan" has got knitting classes from 4-5, and they cannot understand that I cannot reschedule 12 kids for the sake of just one of them. I have a smaller number of people to keep happy, but I have a smaller income; so that probably squares us. But, unless one wants to go and live on one's own with a fat bank account to takes of one's needs (I wish !!!!), one has to do all that juggling to keep as many people happy as possible without putting other people's noses out of joint. > This is a huge part of the reason for 'why LCB and Widgets' - by > making it MUCH easier to extend the engine in ways that are > indistinguishable (or getting that way, anyway) from anything else in > the engine we can get to a situation where many more people (beyond > just 'us' behind the LiveCode Ltd. veil) can help others solve their > LiveCode related problems. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > Thanks so much for writing such a well thought-out reply to my post. Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 05:02:06 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:02:06 +0100 Subject: Free "Learn Git" course from codecademy Message-ID: <5627548E.4010007@livecode.com> Hi all, Mike Kerner was asking me recently to help people in the community out with getting into using Git for collaborative development. Codecademy have just brought out an *excellent* introductory course for learning git: https://www.codecademy.com/en/courses/learn-git If you've been interested in learning git, go and try out the first lesson on "Basic Git Workflow" now! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 05:28:23 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:28:23 +0200 Subject: Vector =?UTF-8?Q?images=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-20 21:35, Scott Rossi wrote: > Mark, what you describe sounds great. Even a subset of SVG > capabilities > is very welcome. > > But I have to ask, partly because I'm clueless when it comes to low > level > programming, but also because I'm curious: does it make sense to have > two > "realms" of graphics? There are card based (native) graphics, and then > there are the graphics inside widgets. I recall reading that all of > the > graphics rendering in LC was going to be moved over to the skia > graphics > library. Is this what enables the display of SVG in widgets or is > graphics rendering in widgets based on something else? What prevents > the > display of SVG graphics outside of a widget? As it stands, there are > graphics capabilities within widgets that don't apply to native > graphics. > Would it not make more sense to have a single universal approach to all > graphics in LC? There are a number of things to answer in your question, so I shall attempt to do so (apologies in advance, what follows is quite long - I thought it useful to provide a fair amount of background - answers to your direct questions are at the end!) -- First and foremost, the most important thing to bear in mind is that widgets are a way to write engine controls in both a way which is an order of magnitude easier than doing so in C++ *and* in a much more accessible way (the number of people in the community at present who either have the necessary knowledge and/or interest in writing C++ is very very small). So, widgets are not special, they aren't doing anything the engine doesn't already have the facilities for - they just allow said facilities to be exposed at the LiveCode Script level in a much easier and quicker way than we could ever do in C++. -- Moving on from that, the current 'stack' we have inside the engine for graphics is as follows: Skia (entirely internal - not exposed at any level) => This is the 'rasterization' engine - it essentially converts 'paint this shape here' requests into actual pixels). It is a rather large and fiddly C++ class library which we have, over time, managed to persuade to work in the ways that we need it to. LibGraphics (internal engine API - available for use by the engine) => This is a high-level, standard, PostScript-like C API allowing paths to be stroked and filled with various kinds of paints, transparency layers to be used and composited with bitmap effects, images to be rendered etc. It is very similar to CoreGraphics (but actually has a number of features beyond which CG offers). e.g. MCGContextCreate(-> myContext) MCGContextSetRGBAFillColor(myContext, 1, 0, 0, 0.5) MCGContextAddRectangle(myContext, [0, 0, 400, 400]) MCGContextFill(myContext) Above this we actually have two abstractions which sit side-by-side: MCGraphicsContext (internal engine compatibility class - available for use by the 'classic' engine controls) => This is a wrapper around LibGraphics which emulates the old graphics abstraction in the engine and is used by all existing engine controls. Canvas (LCB syntax extension - available for use by LCB) => This is a thin wrapper around LibGraphics providing 'nice' syntax to LCB to allow widgets to paint themselves: set the fill paint of this canvas to color [1, 0, 0, 0.5] fill rectangle [0, 0, 400, 400] on this canvas So - all the existing ('classic') engine controls internally use an old abstraction called MCGraphicsContext, whilst all new 'engine' controls use Canvas (if written in LCB) or LibGraphics directly (if written in C++ - however, we do not intend to write any new engine controls in C++ as we have LCB - it would be a somewhat large 'waste of effort'). -- With the above in mind let's look at what SVG support actually entails. Firstly, SVG is 'just' an interchange format (although a very powerful and really quite complex one if implemented fully) - it is a high-level description of marks on a page. It is similar to the representational power of PostScript (Level 3 - which includes transparency) but is declarative (i.e. you describe explicitly what the elements are) rather than imperative (i.e. you run 'code' to generate the elements - PostScript is a language). SVG is actually (like all W3C standards) abstract - it is a well-defined data-structure which has a reference 'encoding' as XML. So an SVG rendering 'stack' notionally looks like this: XML Importer - takes SVG XML and converts it to an XML document that can be manipulated) SVG-XML Processor - processes the XML document and produces the SVG data structure) SVG Renderer - takes the SVG data structure and turns it into actual graphics operations) Graphics Library - needs to provide the operations needed to render SVG primitives 'Unfortunately', Skia does not support SVG rendering directly - it was going to once it seems, however that aspect was abandoned long ago as not being worthwhile. I'm guessing this is because full support of SVG is far outside the realms of a (low-level) graphics (rasterization / abstraction) library. Instead Skia provides the underlying services for rasterizing SVG (e.g. the ability to render paths with arbitrary transforms with various different kinds of paint, process things with various kinds of filter etc.). Now, obviously we only use Skia at a very low-level - it is strictly 'hidden' behind our well-defined LibGraphics API (so that, if necessary, we can change the rasterization engine at some point, or abstract it to do various other 'neat' things - like 'export snapshot as SVG'). So, the first part of the work I've done is to add an MCGSvgRef abstraction to libgraphics. This neatly wraps up the top three things in the above list - it loads and parses an SVG XML document and then converts it to an internal form which can be rendered (note that the entire focus here is rendering - not editing or introspection on the SVG Document). There is then a simple call to render such a thing (which basically iterates over the internal form and calls appropriate LibGraphics APIs to do so). (I should point out that I didn't write the main piece of code which does the Importing / Processing - that would be https://github.com/memononen/nanosvg - I wrapped that up in a nice package and hooked it up to LibGraphics). The C API is actually this (for those that are interested): bool MCGSvgCreate(const void *p_data, size_t p_data_size, MCGSvgRef& r_svg) MCGSvgRef MCGSvgRetain(MCGSvgRef self) void MCGSvgRelease(MCGSvgRef self) bool MCGSvgIsValid(MCGSvgRef self) MCGRectangle MCGSvgGetViewBox(MCGSvgRef self) MCGRectangle MCGSvgGetBoundingBox(MCGSvgRef self) void MCGSvgRender(MCGSvgRef self, MCGContextRef target) With this nice simple abstraction in place (which is now generally available as part of the API exposed by LibGraphics to anything in the engine that might want to use it), I then wrapped it in LCB syntax for use by widgets. Indeed, it did not need very much syntax: svg from file svg from resource file svg from string the bounding box of the viewing box of draw [ from of ] into of So, at this point, any part of the engine can use the C-based API mentioned above, and any LCB code can use the 'nice' LCB syntax above. -- The final piece to the current piece of work is a very simple (it is around 150 lines of LCB code, including GPL header comments) 'SVG View' widget which allows you to give it SVG as an XML string, and then tell it what portion to render into the widgets rect. (Here is the actual source - https://github.com/runrevmark/livecode/blob/lcb-canvas_svg/extensions/widgets/svgview/svgview.lcb) -- Now with that all out of the way, let me see if I can answer your direct questions... Q: does it make sense to have two "realms" of graphics? There are card based (native) graphics, and then there are the graphics inside widgets. A: There aren't 'two realms of graphics' - what you are seeing is the graphics 'stack' at different levels. By 'card based graphics' I presume you mean the 'graphic' object. This is a 'widget' which allows you to display geometric shapes on a card. It sits on MCGraphicsContext internally which sits on LibGraphics. Similarly, any widget sits on Canvas syntax which sits on LibGraphics. Due to the graphics object current implementation atop MCGraphicsContext it has a number of flaws which are not fixable without (essentially) rewriting it... Q: I recall reading that all of the graphics rendering in LC was going to be moved over to the skia graphics library. Is this what enables the display of SVG in widgets or is graphics rendering in widgets based on something else? A: All graphics rendering in LC has been using Skia since around 6.5. Existing C++ engine controls do so through the MCGraphicsContext wrapper around LibGraphics (which actually sits on Skia). SVG rendering support has been added at the LibGraphics level (using a third-party SVG parser / processor), which has then been exposed to the LCB Canvas syntax for widgets to use. Q: What prevents the display of SVG graphics outside of a widget? A: Nothing - the SVG support is available at the LibGraphics level and so any part of the (C++) engine could use it. Really this question exposes a slight misunderstanding about widgets. Widgets are no different from the other engine controls - they are just written in LCB rather than C++ which means they are a great deal easier and faster to write *and* most importantly, a great many more people will be able to write them. (Thus providing, over time, a great many more 'engine' features for everybody). Q: As it stands, there are graphics capabilities within widgets that don't apply to native graphics. Would it not make more sense to have a single universal approach to all graphics in LC? A: Internally and from an implementation perspective (whether it be available at the C++ or LCB level) there is a universal approach to graphics in LiveCode. However, I think what you are asking here is 'why does there appear to be more graphics facilities available at the Canvas API level than we can see through the current graphic object'... The answer here is simple - because we have not yet rewritten the graphic object. The current behavior of the graphic object is such that trying to 'move it forward' into the modern era is, essentially, pointless - it would have to be done with a big hefty flag saying 'use new behavior' (as otherwise all existing stacks using it would not work the same as they did before), and that is equivalent to just rewriting the object from scratch. This is the much prophesized 'shape' object. Which we will write in LCB (and, indeed, will actually just be quite a simple 'wrapper' around the Canvas syntax in the first instance at least). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 05:48:02 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:48:02 +0200 Subject: Vector =?UTF-8?Q?images=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d15b59f140582b1c4eaca2251e51b05@livecode.com> On 2015-10-21 10:54, Richmond wrote: > I am not confusing anything: I know you can manage "the underlying > ability to import and render SVG", > and I am hoping you will expose that to the end-user via the menu for > image import that is already in place in the GUI. Indeed - I can definitely say we will do that... We just need to figure out the best approach internally for that to be done :) > Well, vector images are very widely used, and they do have the > advantage over bitmapped ones in that they don't go "all fuzzy" > when they are resized: that, at the very least, is a big plus, and IF > (??????) the Geometry Manager is 'whatever' vector images > would sit very nicely with that. True - but there are dragons here. One might ask the question why Apple (with all its power, money and technical ability) requires App writers to make several images at different resolutions in order to make sure things 'dont go fuzzy' on Retina and other high resolution displays. They certainly have the where-with-all to implement an SVG rendering library - like they have done with PDF - available to C/C++/Objective-C/Swift - and yet they have not. The only reasonable answer I can come up with (beyond general intransigence of a behemoth) is that SVG is expensive (time wise) to render. Far more expensive than scaling and rendering a pre-computed image. Now for situations where you are always scaling / transforming and manipulating your content then this consideration probably largely goes away (although be prepared for complex SVG not to animate particularly well on lower end hardware). However, for the most common situation of icons the balance still probably largely falls towards pre-rendered images being better. Ultimately, I'm definitely in the 'simplify things for the app writer' by way of - let's not make them have to fiddle with PhotoShop or other tools to generate the icons to make things look nice for the simple reason that the ability to easily render and snapshot SVG in LiveCode will mean that an easy script-based solution could always be come up with to solve any performance issues, at least until such a point the engine or standalone builder becomes 'clever' enough to do it for you. >> LiveCode is good at processing text, so certainly export of SVG is >> something which can be done quite happily, and well (and indeed quite >> sensibly) in script. Indeed, there is even an SVG importer which has >> been around for a long time (although it is slightly limited by some >> restrictions on the LiveCode graphic object) also written in script. > > Alejandro . . . Indeed - that library was the one which was on my mind. Actually, the first task I set Ian (one of our engineers) to do when he first joined was to first write something which converted a simple language I had designed ('SVGL') into vector graphic objects; and then write an SVG -> SVGL converter. (My ideas for the much prophesized 'shape' object go way way back). The reason for this was that his first task after getting to grips with these ideas was implementing gradient fills in the graphic object - back when there was no existing third-party library we could leverage to do so (due to commercial licensing requirements). >> Similarly, an 'export snapshot ... as svg' command would also be >> useful to solve specific problems for specific domains but, again, >> isn't going to do so for everyone. > > Well, we all know what attempting to keep everybody happy at the same > time results in: something that makes most people fed up. True - balancing acts are always prone to the occasional 'wobble'. > I still feel that Vector graphibs should be automatically "in the > list": SuperCard seems to cope with them, and has for quite some time. It always has been really - but there are various technical challenges involved with it. I suspect SuperCards 'vector graphics' support is Mac PICTs or similar (I could be wrong). Given that SuperCard is single-platform, they have the luxury of being able to use whatever their target platform (Mac) supports. We, unfortunately, do not have the same amount of flexibility. > But they are as entitled to bang-on about what they would like just as > much as I am entitled to bang on about graphics. I can't argue with that :) > If they don't that is not my fault, and possibly their loss. > > As my grandfather said; "There is never any harm in asking." Indeed, that is a very good motto to have; and my grandfather always used to say "Patience is a virtue" :) > But, unless one wants to go and live on one's own with a fat bank > account to takes of one's needs (I wish !!!!), one has to do all that > juggling to > keep as many people happy as possible without putting other people's > noses out of joint. Haha - yes - quite. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 09:18:57 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:18:57 +0300 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <2d15b59f140582b1c4eaca2251e51b05@livecode.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> <2d15b59f140582b1c4eaca2251e51b05@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562790C1.8050805@gmail.com> On 21/10/15 12:48, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > >> Well, vector images are very widely used, and they do have the >> advantage over bitmapped ones in that they don't go "all fuzzy" >> when they are resized: that, at the very least, is a big plus, and IF >> (??????) the Geometry Manager is 'whatever' vector images >> would sit very nicely with that. > > True - but there are dragons here. One might ask the question why > Apple (with all its power, money and technical ability) requires App > writers to make several images at different resolutions in order to > make sure things 'dont go fuzzy' on Retina and other high resolution > displays. They certainly have the where-with-all to implement an SVG > rendering library - like they have done with PDF - available to > C/C++/Objective-C/Swift - and yet they have not. > > The only reasonable answer I can come up with (beyond general > intransigence of a behemoth) is that SVG is expensive (time wise) to > render. Far more expensive than scaling and rendering a pre-computed > image. > Of course, you could think about using a different vector image format . . . I know that SVG "is" the vector graphics standard, but that hasn't stopped any one adopting other formats that are, possibly, less complex. At the risk of sounding totally cretinous (not that that would be for the first time), both Illustrator and Inkscape can export EPS files; and if they can do that on Macintosh, Windows and Linux . . . Just possibly, as Inkscape is Open Source . . . Richmond. From toolbook at kestner.de Wed Oct 21 09:20:23 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:20:23 +0200 Subject: LC 6.7.6 / 6.7.8 (rc 1) No externals.txt config file found Message-ID: <005701d10c03$3e7cb350$bb7619f0$@kestner.de> Hello, LC 6.7.6 and 6.7.8 (rc 1) I am using two third party externals and see the first time the following warning in the standalone builder after a successful built: "Windows x86-32 external. No externals.txt config file found for MyExternal" Is this a new "feature" or do I have to set any other options in 6.7.6 and above? What is this .txt for? I do only get this warning with one of the two third party externals and have no idea, what makes the difference or where LC find the .txt for the other external. Can this catch me up in a later release as an error? Thanks Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 09:38:35 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:38:35 +0200 Subject: Vector =?UTF-8?Q?images=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562790C1.8050805@gmail.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> <2d15b59f140582b1c4eaca2251e51b05@livecode.com> <562790C1.8050805@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-21 15:18, Richmond wrote: > On 21/10/15 12:48, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> >>> Well, vector images are very widely used, and they do have the >>> advantage over bitmapped ones in that they don't go "all fuzzy" >>> when they are resized: that, at the very least, is a big plus, and IF >>> (??????) the Geometry Manager is 'whatever' vector images >>> would sit very nicely with that. >> >> The only reasonable answer I can come up with (beyond general >> intransigence of a behemoth) is that SVG is expensive (time wise) to >> render. Far more expensive than scaling and rendering a pre-computed >> image. >> > Of course, you could think about using a different vector image format > . . . All vector image formats are more expensive to render than a pre-rendered image. (The advantage of them, of course, is that they can be rendered at any size with no loss of quality). Note that this *rendering* I'm talking about not parsing the textual form into something which can then be iterated over and rendered. > I know that SVG "is" the vector graphics standard, but that hasn't > stopped any one adopting > other formats that are, possibly, less complex. There's two vectors of complexity here - complexity of processing the input format, and complexity of the underlying rendering engine required to render them. Most vector graphics formats are largely equivalent in their requirements on a rendering engine (although SVG does have a fair bit of 'filter' stuff which needs some reasonably heavy-lifting - that is if you want 100% support). > At the risk of sounding totally cretinous (not that that would be for > the first time), both Illustrator and Inkscape > can export EPS files; and if they can do that on Macintosh, Windows > and Linux . . . EPS is actually just a very well structured version of PostScript - which (in theory) requires a full PostScript interpreter to render. That being said, from memory, Illustrator has always had a 'special form' of EPS where it uses only restricted sets of operators in a way which doesn't require interpretation (it's quite neat actually - the prologue contains the definitions for the operators so that such an EPS file can still be directly printed on a PostScript printer; whilst the file can also be understood by things which don't have a full PostScript interpreter). So, anyway, there's no problem with SVG in general - I think it is the best thing to choose these days. My comments were merely a small warning to say that - remember that rendering vector graphics on the fly is quite an expensive operation, so it might be that initial uses will require a bit of scripting to ensure things written using them work well at a reasonable speed. i.e. Precomputation where required. That being said, over time, I'm sure we can come up with numerous ways the engine can help here to ensure that, for the most common uses, the difference in rendering a vector image and a normal image is (after initial setup time) not very much at all. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 10:44:41 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:44:41 +0000 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> <2d15b59f140582b1c4eaca2251e51b05@livecode.com> <562790C1.8050805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4404906F-3468-4920-BBEE-9E6DF7D036AD@iotecdigital.com> I think that is the whole point behind the preview thumbnail that can be attached to the eps graphic. I suppose support for EPS would be better if we had a choice of using the preview as opposed to requiring a re-render each time the object was drawn. Bob S On Oct 21, 2015, at 06:38 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: EPS is actually just a very well structured version of PostScript - which (in theory) requires a full PostScript interpreter to render. That being said, from memory, Illustrator has always had a 'special form' of EPS where it uses only restricted sets of operators in a way which doesn't require interpretation (it's quite neat actually - the prologue contains the definitions for the operators so that such an EPS file can still be directly printed on a PostScript printer; whilst the file can also be understood by things which don't have a full PostScript interpreter). So, anyway, there's no problem with SVG in general - I think it is the best thing to choose these days. My comments were merely a small warning to say that - remember that rendering vector graphics on the fly is quite an expensive operation, so it might be that initial uses will require a bit of scripting to ensure things written using them work well at a reasonable speed. i.e. Precomputation where required. That being said, over time, I'm sure we can come up with numerous ways the engine can help here to ensure that, for the most common uses, the difference in rendering a vector image and a normal image is (after initial setup time) not very much at all. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 10:51:20 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:51:20 +0200 Subject: Vector =?UTF-8?Q?images=3F?= In-Reply-To: <4404906F-3468-4920-BBEE-9E6DF7D036AD@iotecdigital.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> <2d15b59f140582b1c4eaca2251e51b05@livecode.com> <562790C1.8050805@gmail.com> <4404906F-3468-4920-BBEE-9E6DF7D036AD@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-21 16:44, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I think that is the whole point behind the preview thumbnail that can > be attached to the eps graphic. I suppose support for EPS would be > better if we had a choice of using the preview as opposed to requiring > a re-render each time the object was drawn. Well there is no, and has never been any, support for EPS in LiveCode (or Revolution, or MetaCard) on any platform other an specific UNIX ones a very long time ago. The 'preview' thumbnails in EPS was more (I believe) so that they could be dropped into applications such as DTP programs and you could see what your EPS file would look like without the DTP program itself having to have a full PostScript interpreter (which have always been quite large and expensive to license). Of course, the expectation with such DTP programs and such was that you would be printing to a full PostScript capable printer which would happily understand the PostScript in the EPS. Warmest Regards, Mark. * Whilst GhostScript has been around for a long time it is GPL and thus there is no way to bundle it with a commercial program which uses it to render EPS/PS without falling foul of the 'significant part of the operation of the program' consideration however you slice and dice the delivery of the code. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From t.heaford at icloud.com Wed Oct 21 10:53:03 2015 From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:53:03 +0100 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 21 Oct 2015, at 10:28, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > It is very similar to CoreGraphics (but actually has a number of features beyond which CG offers). e.g. > MCGContextCreate(-> myContext) > MCGContextSetRGBAFillColor(myContext, 1, 0, 0, 0.5) > MCGContextAddRectangle(myContext, [0, 0, 400, 400]) > MCGContextFill(myContext) Does this not do it? or similar? -(void) drawRect: (CGRect) rect { CGContextRef context = UIGraphicsGetCurrentContext(); UIColor * redColor = [UIColor colorWithRed:1.0 green:0.0 blue:0.0 alpha:1.0]; CGContextSetFillColorWithColor(context, redColor.CGColor); CGContextFillRect(context, self.bounds); } All the best Terry From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 10:58:44 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:58:44 +0200 Subject: Vector =?UTF-8?Q?images=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> Message-ID: <9e5f96aeea4287fa170f90160b5482e8@livecode.com> On 2015-10-21 16:53, Terence Heaford wrote: >> On 21 Oct 2015, at 10:28, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> It is very similar to CoreGraphics (but actually has a number of >> features beyond which CG offers). e.g. >> MCGContextCreate(-> myContext) >> MCGContextSetRGBAFillColor(myContext, 1, 0, 0, 0.5) >> MCGContextAddRectangle(myContext, [0, 0, 400, 400]) >> MCGContextFill(myContext) > > > Does this not do it? or similar? > > -(void) drawRect: (CGRect) rect > { > CGContextRef context = UIGraphicsGetCurrentContext(); > > UIColor * redColor = [UIColor colorWithRed:1.0 green:0.0 blue:0.0 > alpha:1.0]; > > CGContextSetFillColorWithColor(context, redColor.CGColor); > > CGContextFillRect(context, self.bounds); > } > Yes - that would be the CG API version of the LibGraphics API - I did say it was similar :) I wasn't suggesting that ssmple code example was an example of features LibGraphics has which CoreGraphics does not (although I can see how it could be read like that - oops). LibGraphics incorporates various features relating to bitmap effects in its API. CoreGraphics only has 'drop-shadow' abilities - LibGraphics does the whole stack of bitmap effects you see exposed via the bitmapEffects property. It also has a number of gradient types which CoreGraphics does not support. Eventually LibGraphics will (hopefully) have APIs added to enable the range of filter processing operations SVG allows - in order to expand SVG support in the future (again, something CoreGraphics does not have). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 11:02:02 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:02:02 +0000 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> <2d15b59f140582b1c4eaca2251e51b05@livecode.com> <562790C1.8050805@gmail.com> <4404906F-3468-4920-BBEE-9E6DF7D036AD@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Adobe products also used the previews to make rendering large documents more efficient. You could choose to render each time or use the preview, kind of like a cache. That was back in the day when the horsepower for rendering was much less than it is today. I'm not sure how they go about it now. The real problem with Postscript is and always has been, licensing. It's expensive. I doubt you could convince Adobe to allow you to include a postscript rendering engine in LC for free. Bob S On Oct 21, 2015, at 07:51 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: The 'preview' thumbnails in EPS was more (I believe) so that they could be dropped into applications such as DTP programs and you could see what your EPS file would look like without the DTP program itself having to have a full PostScript interpreter (which have always been quite large and expensive to license). From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 11:02:52 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:02:52 +0000 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <56269AD7.7080307@gmail.com> <562752C4.9000507@gmail.com> <2d15b59f140582b1c4eaca2251e51b05@livecode.com> <562790C1.8050805@gmail.com> <4404906F-3468-4920-BBEE-9E6DF7D036AD@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <7D869E50-0A7B-4093-82A0-F75D6A129059@iotecdigital.com> Oh wait, you said that. :-) Bob S On Oct 21, 2015, at 08:02 , Bob Sneidar > wrote: Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Adobe products also used the previews to make rendering large documents more efficient. You could choose to render each time or use the preview, kind of like a cache. That was back in the day when the horsepower for rendering was much less than it is today. I'm not sure how they go about it now. The real problem with Postscript is and always has been, licensing. It's expensive. I doubt you could convince Adobe to allow you to include a postscript rendering engine in LC for free. Bob S On Oct 21, 2015, at 07:51 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: The 'preview' thumbnails in EPS was more (I believe) so that they could be dropped into applications such as DTP programs and you could see what your EPS file would look like without the DTP program itself having to have a full PostScript interpreter (which have always been quite large and expensive to license). From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 11:10:46 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:10:46 +0000 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not entirely accurate. There are ways. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/75675/how-do-i-dump-the-data-of-some-sqlite3-tables Bob S On Oct 17, 2015, at 10:07 , Dr. Hawkins > wrote: On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Glen Bojsza > wrote: In creating an in memory database can you create one with a name? There really wouldn't be a point to that Once you open a database, Livecode refers to it by number, not name. New line there is no direct way to dump a database from memory to disk; you would have to use routines or selections to write from one to the other. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 11:25:41 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:25:41 +0000 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76EBD323-58C9-42A5-9FFB-43D25DEACE80@iotecdigital.com> This is a good example of how sqlYoga can help. You could create two database objects, query the disk based database for all the records in a table using the disk based object, then insert the records using the memory based object. If the databases are not very large it shouldn't take that long. But I think your idea of using a file copy method is the best way. I used to do that with the Spiceworks database because the Spiceworks system would periodically open the database and since it is really a single user system opening it directly could cause problems with Spiceworks. I just did a simple file copy and worked with the copy. Bob S > On Oct 17, 2015, at 10:12 , Glen Bojsza wrote: > > Essentially, I want to keep the database in its original form / content. > > While the user is running the app I want to be able to make changes to the > database knowing that the changes are done in memory and will not be > written to the original database. > > I could duplicate the database to a folder on the disk and then later > remove it but if I can do it just in memory and it automatically cleans out > after the user quits the app then it would be more convenient. > > For example, if I don't the user to be able to look into the database > (which I believe can be done if it is written to disk) using in memory > would be the way to go...true? > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 11:27:49 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:27:49 +0000 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65F9BF03-2710-4BD1-9794-880108FBA83B@iotecdigital.com> Whaa? There is an ATTACH command?? I will look into this. Sounds like something I might be able to use at some point. Bob S > On Oct 17, 2015, at 11:56 , Peter Haworth wrote: > > I assume this is a single user application? When you say you want to make > changes to the database, do you mean the user makes changes to the data in > the database using your application? If the disk version never changes > then the next time the user runs your app, whatever changes they made last > time around will be gone - is that OK? > > I'm not totally sure what you mean by "look into the database" but assume > you mean using anything other than your application. There's always going > to be ways to do that using any of the sqlite admin programs out there, > unless you use one of the encryption add-ons for sqlite. > > If you want to continue down this path, then conceptually, here's one way > to get the disk based db into an in memory version. > > 1. Open the in memory database which will be completely empty. > 2. Use the ATTACH command to open the disk db over the same connection. > Doing that involves assigning a name to identify the db which I'll assume > is "diskdb". You'll use that in the next step. > 3. For each table in the disk db, issue a CREATE TABLE AS command, which > will look something like this: "CREATE main.TABLE Movies AS SELECT * FROM > diskdb.Movies" > 4. Issue the command DETACH DATABASE diskdb > > After that all your data will be in your in memory database and you can > access it just as in any other db. > > Pete From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 11:35:13 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:35:13 -0700 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Not entirely accurate. There are ways. > > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/75675/how-do-i-dump-the-data-of-some-sqlite3-tables > But those muse a command line tool. You could use that through shell()to get the commands to recreate the db in a :memory: db, but it's one-way trip -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Oct 21 11:40:57 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:40:57 -0400 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: <65F9BF03-2710-4BD1-9794-880108FBA83B@iotecdigital.com> References: <65F9BF03-2710-4BD1-9794-880108FBA83B@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <007301d10c16$e14b0920$a3e11b60$@net> I use the attach command all the time. Among other things it makes joins across DBs possible. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:28 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory Whaa? There is an ATTACH command?? I will look into this. Sounds like something I might be able to use at some point. Bob S > On Oct 17, 2015, at 11:56 , Peter Haworth wrote: > > I assume this is a single user application? When you say you want to > make changes to the database, do you mean the user makes changes to > the data in the database using your application? If the disk version > never changes then the next time the user runs your app, whatever > changes they made last time around will be gone - is that OK? > > I'm not totally sure what you mean by "look into the database" but > assume you mean using anything other than your application. There's > always going to be ways to do that using any of the sqlite admin > programs out there, unless you use one of the encryption add-ons for sqlite. > > If you want to continue down this path, then conceptually, here's one > way to get the disk based db into an in memory version. > > 1. Open the in memory database which will be completely empty. > 2. Use the ATTACH command to open the disk db over the same connection. > Doing that involves assigning a name to identify the db which I'll > assume is "diskdb". You'll use that in the next step. > 3. For each table in the disk db, issue a CREATE TABLE AS command, > which will look something like this: "CREATE main.TABLE Movies AS > SELECT * FROM diskdb.Movies" > 4. Issue the command DETACH DATABASE diskdb > > After that all your data will be in your in memory database and you > can access it just as in any other db. > > Pete _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 11:38:58 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:38:58 -0700 Subject: SQLite: how to open existing database in memory In-Reply-To: <76EBD323-58C9-42A5-9FFB-43D25DEACE80@iotecdigital.com> References: <76EBD323-58C9-42A5-9FFB-43D25DEACE80@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > But I think your idea of using a file copy method is the best way. I used > to do that with the Spiceworks database because the Spiceworks system would > periodically open the database and since it is really a single user system > opening it directly could cause problems with Spiceworks. I just did a > simple file copy and worked with the copy. my own, multiuser, is to use postgres,and periodically run a query on the :memory: sqlite version, and by code turn that into INSERT commands for sqlite, with the postgres db keeping the co,ands, rather than data. It also works with a disk-basessqlite. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 11:53:13 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:53:13 +0100 Subject: Updated LiveCode roadmap Message-ID: <5627B4E9.30409@livecode.com> Hi all, I've updated our roadmap page, which explains the work that the core dev team is doing. It can be found at . Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 11:58:50 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:58:50 +0000 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <56268BE8.1040301@fourthworld.com> References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> <56268BE8.1040301@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9BEDE007-03B4-4D70-BF91-5653B4427555@iotecdigital.com> These things have been debated before. The question is not how many computers are out there with operating system n, but how much software do people with operating system n purchase. As it turns out, people who purchase the cheapest PC they can find are rarely interested in purchasing a lot of expensive software on top of it. Linux users are predominately so because the OS cost them nothing (although this has been the case for OS X users for some time, and now Windows is in the zero sum game). So they are likely interested in no cost open source apps. This leaves OS X users, who are willing to pay top dollar for a computer they feel is the best choice for them, and are much more likely to use the same judgement when purchasing software. As the saying goes, there are lies, there are Damnable lies, and then there are statistics. Bob S On Oct 20, 2015, at 11:46 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: The desktop is a Windows story. With 86% of the market, both Mac and Linux as niche players there. But the average price of a Mac is roughly twice the average price of a Windows-compatible PC, making that segment an unusually desirable demographic disproportionate to its market share. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 12:03:50 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:03:50 +0000 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is rather like a person who drives a propane vehicle getting upset because there aren't just as many propane refilling stations as there are gas stations. Sorry Richmond. Software vendors are not trying to be fair. They are trying to feed their families, and no one accepts good feelings as currency. Bob S > On Oct 20, 2015, at 10:27 , Richmond wrote: > > Fairly hacked off to receive and advert for THIS on my Facebook page: > > https://www.dashlane.com/en/lp/neverforget-teal?utm_campaign=1841393610&utm_medium=paid_social&utm_source=FBdesktop&nan_pid=1841393610 > > mainly because when you get to the webpage it: > > 1. Assumes that you are running Microsoft Windows, > > and, as an after-thought, > > 2. Offers a Macintosh version. > > Some of us are neither, and resent this kind of 'push' that makes all sorts of > unwarranted assumptions about what we run on our computers, why we run it, > and what we do with it. > > Where do these people live? In the same stupid, limited world where 90% of > school teachers and school systems dwell; the place where every square peg > must be beaten and hammered to fit into a round hole. > > I sometimes wonder why LiveCode don't take advantage of that and present themselves as > the "anti-programmer's programming suite", the "un-code" the "to-h*ll-with-the-command-line-language": > there should be a lot of uptake. > > Richmond. > > P.S. I also use my computer to iron my socks. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 12:15:23 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:15:23 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> Message-ID: I just downloaded the file but not having any success figuring out how to install it in Atom. It seems their standard install only lists packages that have been registered at atom.io. Any help would be welcome. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:16 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > > On 20/10/2015 21:53, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> Aha! Now those of you that wanted to play with the linter after my >> premature announcement last month can have a go. >> >> > Sorry it took me so long to make the release! ;_; > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 12:42:18 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:42:18 -0700 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <9BEDE007-03B4-4D70-BF91-5653B4427555@iotecdigital.com> References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> <56268BE8.1040301@fourthworld.com> <9BEDE007-03B4-4D70-BF91-5653B4427555@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > As the saying goes, there are lies, there are Damnable lies, and then > there are statistics. from Mark Twain -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From toolbook at kestner.de Wed Oct 21 12:52:11 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:52:11 +0200 Subject: there is a folder empty -- returns true. Bug? Message-ID: <007101d10c20$d5be99a0$813bcce0$@kestner.de> Hello, On Windows 7, since LC 6.7 (or 6.6.?): there is a folder empty returns true. Up to 6.5 it returned false, as expected for me. Is this a bug (I didn't found a file in QC) or a wanted behavior? Anybody else seeing this? Thanks Tiemo From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 13:03:50 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:03:50 +0000 Subject: there is a folder empty -- returns true. Bug? In-Reply-To: <007101d10c20$d5be99a0$813bcce0$@kestner.de> References: <007101d10c20$d5be99a0$813bcce0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <53C629B3-6DF9-47C8-8D2B-A73F800D64FB@iotecdigital.com> In the words of Mathesar of Galaxy Quest, who just grasped that the whole ideology their culture was based on had been a "fabrication", "But... why??" Bob S > On Oct 21, 2015, at 09:52 , Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > > Hello, > > On Windows 7, since LC 6.7 (or 6.6.?): > > there is a folder empty > > returns true. Up to 6.5 it returned false, as expected for me. Is this a bug > (I didn't found a file in QC) or a wanted behavior? Anybody else seeing > this? > > Thanks > > Tiemo From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 13:06:27 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:06:27 +0300 Subject: Updated LiveCode roadmap In-Reply-To: <5627B4E9.30409@livecode.com> References: <5627B4E9.30409@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5627C613.5010001@gmail.com> On 21/10/15 18:53, Peter TB Brett wrote: > Hi all, > > I've updated our roadmap page, which explains the work that the core > dev team is doing. It can be found at . > > Peter > > Can I get that on my GPS for my car? Very helpful, thanks. Richmond. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 13:16:17 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:16:17 +0000 Subject: Updated LiveCode roadmap In-Reply-To: <5627C613.5010001@gmail.com> References: <5627B4E9.30409@livecode.com> <5627C613.5010001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DE2334A-7494-4750-B233-C8C0526E8CB1@iotecdigital.com> Yes you can Richmond. Now go back to sleep. ;-) Bob S > On Oct 21, 2015, at 10:06 , Richmond wrote: > > On 21/10/15 18:53, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've updated our roadmap page, which explains the work that the core dev team is doing. It can be found at . >> >> Peter >> >> > > Can I get that on my GPS for my car? > > Very helpful, thanks. > > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 13:28:49 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:28:49 +0300 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5627CB51.4010303@gmail.com> On 21/10/15 19:03, Bob Sneidar wrote: > This is rather like a person who drives a propane vehicle getting upset because there aren't just as many propane refilling stations as there are gas stations. Sorry Richmond. Software vendors are not trying to be fair. They are trying to feed their families, and no one accepts good feelings as currency. Well, except in education. Also, there are plenty of developers developing on Linux for other operating systems, and that skews things a bit. R. > > Bob S > > >> On Oct 20, 2015, at 10:27 , Richmond wrote: >> >> Fairly hacked off to receive and advert for THIS on my Facebook page: >> >> https://www.dashlane.com/en/lp/neverforget-teal?utm_campaign=1841393610&utm_medium=paid_social&utm_source=FBdesktop&nan_pid=1841393610 >> >> mainly because when you get to the webpage it: >> >> 1. Assumes that you are running Microsoft Windows, >> >> and, as an after-thought, >> >> 2. Offers a Macintosh version. >> >> Some of us are neither, and resent this kind of 'push' that makes all sorts of >> unwarranted assumptions about what we run on our computers, why we run it, >> and what we do with it. >> >> Where do these people live? In the same stupid, limited world where 90% of >> school teachers and school systems dwell; the place where every square peg >> must be beaten and hammered to fit into a round hole. >> >> I sometimes wonder why LiveCode don't take advantage of that and present themselves as >> the "anti-programmer's programming suite", the "un-code" the "to-h*ll-with-the-command-line-language": >> there should be a lot of uptake. >> >> Richmond. >> >> P.S. I also use my computer to iron my socks. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 13:29:24 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:29:24 +0300 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> <56268BE8.1040301@fourthworld.com> <9BEDE007-03B4-4D70-BF91-5653B4427555@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5627CB74.2040705@gmail.com> On 21/10/15 19:42, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > >> As the saying goes, there are lies, there are Damnable lies, and then >> there are statistics. > > from Mark Twain > > The well-known computer software developer. R. From tkuypers at telenet.be Wed Oct 21 13:30:13 2015 From: tkuypers at telenet.be (tkuypers at telenet.be) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:30:13 +0200 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! Message-ID: I?m using LC Community 7.1 and for the second time in a week LC gives the cursor of death when I reopen a project! The first time I was able to retrieve all code using Bbedit, and I was able to continue to work, starting all over. I could save, open, close, open again, no problems. But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? I also tried 8.0, same result. I tried to start without any extensions, same result. Nothing has changed, older projects work fine, only this new one. Is this my punishment for not developing during the last couple of months, grrrrr?.. Anyone any suggestions? Met vriendelijke groeten, Warm Regards, Ton Kuypers +32 (0) 477 739 530 Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium www.publishingtools4u.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 13:31:00 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:31:00 +0300 Subject: Updated LiveCode roadmap In-Reply-To: <4DE2334A-7494-4750-B233-C8C0526E8CB1@iotecdigital.com> References: <5627B4E9.30409@livecode.com> <5627C613.5010001@gmail.com> <4DE2334A-7494-4750-B233-C8C0526E8CB1@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5627CBD4.2050407@gmail.com> On 21/10/15 20:16, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Yes you can Richmond. Now go back to sleep. ;-) Not asleep, but living in a galaxy far, far away. The East European EFL "scene" such as it is, is not the same sort of life form as constitutes software development west of the Danube. R. > > Bob S > > >> On Oct 21, 2015, at 10:06 , Richmond wrote: >> >> On 21/10/15 18:53, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I've updated our roadmap page, which explains the work that the core dev team is doing. It can be found at . >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >> Can I get that on my GPS for my car? >> >> Very helpful, thanks. >> >> Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 13:38:32 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:38:32 -0700 Subject: Resize modal stack Message-ID: Prior to 7.0, modal stacks could be resized by the user. From 7.0 onwards, they can't. Is this a bug or was it done deliberately for some reason? Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 13:42:23 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:42:23 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > Table Tool not available for: Label and Field > Table Tool available for: Scrolling Field, Table Field and Scrolling List > Field > That's interesting, I don't see a Table icon for an scrolling list field here. Probably doesn;t matter in view of Mark's response. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 13:46:31 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:46:31 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: <9830e6f7290057cbc468f68f141c9b0d@livecode.com> References: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> <9830e6f7290057cbc468f68f141c9b0d@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > So this is an error in the translation of the previous property inspectors > structure into the new model which should be extremely easy to fix. Thanks Mark, good to hear it should be an easy fix. My first post on this thread was actually regarding the lack of Geometry Manager functionality in LC8. Is this a temporary situation or is there a plan to restore it? Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 13:53:26 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:53:26 +0200 Subject: Resize modal stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2015-10-21 19:38, Peter Haworth wrote: > Prior to 7.0, modal stacks could be resized by the user. From 7.0 > onwards, > they can't. Is this a bug or was it done deliberately for some reason? > Pete Does setting the resizable property make any difference? Also, did this change at 7.0, or was it actually at 6.7? (I'm presuming this in on Mac, we transitioned to Cocoa at 6.7). Could you file a bug report and we'll look into it. Thanks! Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 13:55:39 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:55:39 +0200 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> <9830e6f7290057cbc468f68f141c9b0d@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-21 19:46, Peter Haworth wrote: > My first post on this thread was actually regarding the lack of > Geometry > Manager functionality in LC8. Is this a temporary situation or is > there a > plan to restore it? Your post prompted a discussion between Ali and I at the time (I perhaps should have posted something at that point - apologies!) - basically we just need to work out how to fit the geometry manager into the way the property inspector works (with custom editors, most likely). So, it has not been forgotten, we just have a bit more work to do. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Oct 21 13:55:37 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:55:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: there is a folder empty -- returns true. Bug? References: <007101d10c20$d5be99a0$813bcce0$@kestner.de> <53C629B3-6DF9-47C8-8D2B-A73F800D64FB@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob Sneidar writes: > > In the words of Mathesar of Galaxy Quest, who just grasped that the whole ideology their culture was based on > had been a "fabrication", "But... why??" LOL. It sounds like this is maybe related to the ongoing discussion at https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3073 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 14:01:11 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:01:11 +0200 Subject: there is a folder empty -- returns true. =?UTF-8?Q?Bug=3F?= In-Reply-To: <007101d10c20$d5be99a0$813bcce0$@kestner.de> References: <007101d10c20$d5be99a0$813bcce0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <7d0648d381ef49b8a6d0b8c772ac4b48@livecode.com> Hi Tiemo, On 2015-10-21 18:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > On Windows 7, since LC 6.7 (or 6.6.?): > > there is a folder empty > > returns true. Up to 6.5 it returned false, as expected for me. Is this > a bug > (I didn't found a file in QC) or a wanted behavior? Anybody else seeing > this? Please do file a bug report - I don't think 'there is a folder empty' should return true (unless of course, there is actually a folder with no name in the current directory - assuming this is possible...). I suspect this came about as a result of work we've done trying to uniformize the way paths are turned into absolute paths. 'empty' is probably resolving to a path representing the current working directory as 'empty' would be seen as a relative path and thus turn into 'the defaultFolder & empty' - which obviously does exist. (With hindsight this is an obvious thing to special-case, however it is possible we missed it at the time). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 14:03:15 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:03:15 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> <9830e6f7290057cbc468f68f141c9b0d@livecode.com> Message-ID: OK, thanks Mark. Was just checking whether to file a bug report or not. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-21 19:46, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> My first post on this thread was actually regarding the lack of Geometry >> Manager functionality in LC8. Is this a temporary situation or is there a >> plan to restore it? >> > > Your post prompted a discussion between Ali and I at the time (I perhaps > should have posted something at that point - apologies!) - basically we > just need to work out how to fit the geometry manager into the way the > property inspector works (with custom editors, most likely). > > So, it has not been forgotten, we just have a bit more work to do. > > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 14:05:15 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:05:15 +0200 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: <95E1B95A-40B6-4EDD-A71C-7081D5856C1D@livecode.com> <9830e6f7290057cbc468f68f141c9b0d@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-21 20:03, Peter Haworth wrote: > OK, thanks Mark. Was just checking whether to file a bug report or > not. Someone beat you to it - http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16060 :) Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Oct 21 14:05:47 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:05:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> Message-ID: Peter Haworth writes: > > I just downloaded the file but not having any success figuring out how to > install it in Atom. It seems their standard install only lists packages > that have been registered at atom.io. Any help would be welcome. Open Atom Go to Preferences Select Install Make sure Packages is selected (it's the default) Type livecode into the search box and press return "language-livecode" should be top of the list Press Install -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 14:15:35 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:15:35 -0700 Subject: Resize modal stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're correct, this changed in 6.7. QCC Report # 16261 filed. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-21 19:38, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Prior to 7.0, modal stacks could be resized by the user. From 7.0 >> onwards, >> they can't. Is this a bug or was it done deliberately for some reason? >> Pete >> > > Does setting the resizable property make any difference? > > Also, did this change at 7.0, or was it actually at 6.7? (I'm presuming > this in on Mac, we transitioned to Cocoa at 6.7). > > Could you file a bug report and we'll look into it. > > Thanks! > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Wed Oct 21 14:18:21 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:18:21 -0400 Subject: AW: Building a standalone fails under LC6.7.8rc1 and LC6.7.7, but is fine under LC6.7.6 In-Reply-To: <33F7643D-0A28-44E8-95CA-4633843DCC5C@livecode.com> References: <562569D9.8000500@researchware.com> <33F7643D-0A28-44E8-95CA-4633843DCC5C@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5627D6ED.9030905@researchware.com> On 10/20/2015 3:00 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Can you file a bug report about this? > > There was a little churn in the s/b between .6 and .7. > > One thing to check is you use savingStandalone or standaloneSaved messages. These have caused problems in the past and subtle changes in the s/b has usually triggered them. Bug report filed: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16262 Simplified sample stack attached to the bug. topLevel statements in the on savingStandalone handler (or any handlers called by on savingStandalone) cause the build to blow up. The change took place between LC676 (builds fine) and LC677 (errors). Present in LC678RC1. From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Wed Oct 21 14:22:50 2015 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:22:50 +0200 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Le 21 oct. 2015 ? 19:30, tkuypers at telenet.be a ?crit : > > I?m using LC Community 7.1 and for the second time in a week LC gives the cursor of death when I reopen a project! > > The first time I was able to retrieve all code using Bbedit, and I was able to continue to work, starting all over. I could save, open, close, open again, no problems. > But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? > > I also tried 8.0, same result. > I tried to start without any extensions, same result. > Nothing has changed, older projects work fine, only this new one. > > Is this my punishment for not developing during the last couple of months, grrrrr?.. > > Anyone any suggestions? > Suppress messages in Livecode, then open your project From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Oct 21 14:33:41 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:33:41 -0500 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5627DA85.4050506@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/21/2015 12:30 PM, tkuypers at telenet.be wrote: > But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a > back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? Did you try turning off Messages in the toolbar before opening the stack? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Oct 21 14:52:42 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:52:42 -0400 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <9BEDE007-03B4-4D70-BF91-5653B4427555@iotecdigital.com> References: <5626799F.4040405@gmail.com> <56268BE8.1040301@fourthworld.com> <9BEDE007-03B4-4D70-BF91-5653B4427555@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Take a look inside corporate America. Mostly PCs, mostly running Windows. Refine this to companies who print on flexible packaging that require precise calculations of image distortions when specific materials are run through a heat-shrink tunnel, or convolved in many ways to meet other manufacturing needs. We use PC's and Macs, but the software we buy for the PCs cost a minimum of $7,000. per seat. Photoshop is a toy when it comes to what we do. I normally keep quiet when the fanboys chirp, but you struck a nerve. PC's are every bit as capable as a Mac, and we DO buy software for them! Gah! ~Roger On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > These things have been debated before. The question is not how many > computers are out there with operating system n, but how much software do > people with operating system n purchase. As it turns out, people who > purchase the cheapest PC they can find are rarely interested in purchasing > a lot of expensive software on top of it. Linux users are predominately so > because the OS cost them nothing (although this has been the case for OS X > users for some time, and now Windows is in the zero sum game). So they are > likely interested in no cost open source apps. This leaves OS X users, who > are willing to pay top dollar for a computer they feel is the best choice > for them, and are much more likely to use the same judgement when > purchasing software. > > As the saying goes, there are lies, there are Damnable lies, and then > there are statistics. > > Bob S > > > On Oct 20, 2015, at 11:46 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > The desktop is a Windows story. With 86% of the market, both Mac and > Linux as niche players there. > > But the average price of a Mac is roughly twice the average price of a > Windows-compatible PC, making that segment an unusually desirable > demographic disproportionate to its market share. > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 21 15:20:18 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:20:18 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> > On 22 Oct 2015, at 5:05 am, Mark Wieder wrote: > > Open Atom > Go to Preferences > Select Install > Make sure Packages is selected (it's the default) > Type livecode into the search box and press return > "language-livecode" should be top of the list > Press Install And you also need the linter package if you want to see script errors and then check the livecode package settings and you will see some additional setup for the linter. For livecode script & server it needs to know where a server engine is. If you symlink it to somewhere on $PATH as livecode-server then you can leave it as default. For livecode builder it needs to know where lc-compile and the standard modules are. These default assuming you have the livecode repo installed but I assume you can extract them from a livecode install. I mentioned to Peter B it might be nice if LC had an install command line tools option to handle this stuff. Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 21 15:20:29 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 12:20:29 -0700 Subject: [OT] Mac/Window duopoly assumptions In-Reply-To: <5627CB51.4010303@gmail.com> References: <5627CB51.4010303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5627E57D.1020402@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > On 21/10/15 19:03, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> This is rather like a person who drives a propane vehicle getting >> upset because there aren't just as many propane refilling stations >> as there are gas stations. Sorry Richmond. Software vendors are >> not trying to be fair. They are trying to feed their families, >> and no one accepts good feelings as currency. > > Well, except in education. > > Also, there are plenty of developers developing on Linux for other > operating systems, and that skews things a bit. Any vendor is free to leave money on the table if they like. And with security products like password managers, better to have a vendor that sticks to the platforms they know rather than try to cover platforms they don't understand and do it poorly. Their loss is someone else's gain: many of my friends in my local Linux user group use password managers, so there are plenty of options beyond the limited Dashlane - here are three that include Linux among their supported platforms: Authentic8 Silo LastPass Keeper It's a lot like Mac software, more so in the '90s but even today with some vertical business apps: it may not always be easy to find the software you need, but when you do find vendors who support the platform you enjoy spread the word, reward their good service. We got Netflix on board. For any other vendor it's just a matter of time, for either them or their competitors, as they choose. For finding nearly any type of app for any platform, see: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 21 15:21:38 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 12:21:38 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5627E5C2.1040509@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-20 19:43, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Adjusting the order of buttons prevents people from acquiring muscle >> memory with the tool, already made surprisingly difficult with the >> small target area for the tab icons. After all, the whole point of >> moving from the option control to tab icons was for ease of access, >> and Fitts' Law and all that.... > > Which is precisely why you can configure the size of the tab icons... How? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 15:49:54 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 12:49:54 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mark and Monte. I'm now up and running but have not tried to deal with the linter/livecode server yet. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Monte Goulding < monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > > On 22 Oct 2015, at 5:05 am, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > > Open Atom > > Go to Preferences > > Select Install > > Make sure Packages is selected (it's the default) > > Type livecode into the search box and press return > > "language-livecode" should be top of the list > > Press Install > > And you also need the linter package if you want to see script errors and > then check the livecode package settings and you will see some additional > setup for the linter. For livecode script & server it needs to know where a > server engine is. If you symlink it to somewhere on $PATH as > livecode-server then you can leave it as default. For livecode builder it > needs to know where lc-compile and the standard modules are. These default > assuming you have the livecode repo installed but I assume you can extract > them from a livecode install. I mentioned to Peter B it might be nice if LC > had an install command line tools option to handle this stuff. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 15:51:08 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 12:51:08 -0700 Subject: [ANN] Version 2.2.0 of lcStackBrowser Released Message-ID: I'm pleased to announce the availability of version 2.2.0 of lcStackbrowser, a plugin replacement for the Livecode Application Browser and Project Browser. This is a free update for all existing users. A demo version is available at http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html. This release includes the following enhancements. The complete release notes are available at http://www.fwd-to.com?12y. LIVECODE 8 WIDGET SUPPORT Widgets appear in the display, you can view/edit their properties and scripts, and display their documentation. This is an experimental feature since Livecode's widget implementation is subject to change. UNDO DELETE Restore any object you have deleted in the current Livecode session. ENHANCED MESSAGE BOX FUNCTIONALITY Access front scripts, back scripts, library scripts, pending messages, and loaded stacks without opening the message box. IDE elements can be optionally included INSTALL PLUGINS Install plugins from the Plugins manager icon and include them immediately in the Plugins List. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Oct 21 16:15:09 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:15:09 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: This conversation is exactly why we need to develop some better instructions for the non-command-liners. On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Thanks Mark and Monte. I'm now up and running but have not tried to deal > with the linter/livecode server yet. > > Pete > lcSQL Software > Home of lcStackBrowser and > SQLiteAdmin > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Monte Goulding < > monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > > > > > On 22 Oct 2015, at 5:05 am, Mark Wieder > wrote: > > > > > > Open Atom > > > Go to Preferences > > > Select Install > > > Make sure Packages is selected (it's the default) > > > Type livecode into the search box and press return > > > "language-livecode" should be top of the list > > > Press Install > > > > And you also need the linter package if you want to see script errors and > > then check the livecode package settings and you will see some additional > > setup for the linter. For livecode script & server it needs to know > where a > > server engine is. If you symlink it to somewhere on $PATH as > > livecode-server then you can leave it as default. For livecode builder it > > needs to know where lc-compile and the standard modules are. These > default > > assuming you have the livecode repo installed but I assume you can > extract > > them from a livecode install. I mentioned to Peter B it might be nice if > LC > > had an install command line tools option to handle this stuff. > > > > Cheers > > > > Monte > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Oct 21 16:19:31 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:19:31 +0000 Subject: Datagrid Focus Messages Message-ID: Is there a message that gets sent when a datagrid loses focus? Bob S From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 16:42:50 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:42:50 +0000 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: <5627E5C2.1040509@fourthworld.com> References: <5627E5C2.1040509@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Cog icon top right -> Header / Footer Size -> Large On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:21 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mark Waddingham wrote: > > On 2015-10-20 19:43, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Adjusting the order of buttons prevents people from acquiring muscle > >> memory with the tool, already made surprisingly difficult with the > >> small target area for the tab icons. After all, the whole point of > >> moving from the option control to tab icons was for ease of access, > >> and Fitts' Law and all that.... > > > > Which is precisely why you can configure the size of the tab icons... > > How? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 21 17:02:09 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:02:09 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5627FD51.5000701@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:21 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Mark Waddingham wrote: >> > >> > Which is precisely why you can configure the size of the tab >> > icons... >> >> How? > > Cog icon top right -> Header / Footer Size -> Large What happens when you try that on Ubuntu? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Wed Oct 21 17:53:14 2015 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:53:14 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <56268564.4000604@fourthworld.com> References: <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> <56268564.4000604@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Last night I literally had a dream in which I rapidly built a video player > in Linux using LiveCode. > "Some men dream of Electric Sheep. Richard Gaskin dreams in livecode." * - anonymous 2015* -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Oct 21 17:57:21 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:57:21 -0400 Subject: Datagrid Focus Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1508c680e43-37b4-25f2@webprd-m46.mail.aol.com> Bob. Er, "focusOut"? Trap this in the group (or card, or higher) script. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Bob Sneidar To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2015 4:21 pm Subject: Datagrid Focus Messages Is there a message that gets sent when a datagrid loses focus? Bob S _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 18:12:51 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:12:51 +0000 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: <5627FD51.5000701@fourthworld.com> References: <5627FD51.5000701@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Well I'm at home as it's past 11pm. What happens when you try it on Ubuntu (in 8.0 DP 7)? On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:02 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:21 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> > > >> > Which is precisely why you can configure the size of the tab > >> > icons... > >> > >> How? > > > > Cog icon top right -> Header / Footer Size -> Large > > What happens when you try that on Ubuntu? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From alex at tweedly.net Wed Oct 21 18:23:15 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 23:23:15 +0100 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: References: <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> <56268564.4000604@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56281053.6050301@tweedly.net> I thought it was Androids, not men, who (which?) dream of Electric Sheep. -- Alex. On 21/10/2015 22:53, stephen barncard wrote: > On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: >> Last night I literally had a dream in which I rapidly built a video player >> in Linux using LiveCode. >> > "Some men dream of Electric Sheep. > Richard Gaskin dreams in livecode." > > * - anonymous 2015* > > -- > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tkuypers at telenet.be Wed Oct 21 18:39:56 2015 From: tkuypers at telenet.be (tkuypers at telenet.be) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 00:39:56 +0200 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! In-Reply-To: <5627DA85.4050506@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5627DA85.4050506@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Turned off Messages, tried to open the file, same result :-( There are no pre-open or startup scripts, nothing that should cause this behavior? Any other suggestions, anyone? Met vriendelijke groeten, Warm Regards, Ton Kuypers +32 (0) 477 739 530 Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium www.publishingtools4u.com > On 21-okt.-2015, at 20:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 10/21/2015 12:30 PM, tkuypers at telenet.be wrote: >> But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a >> back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? > > Did you try turning off Messages in the toolbar before opening the stack? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Oct 21 18:50:00 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 00:50:00 +0200 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! In-Reply-To: References: <5627DA85.4050506@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <56281698.6010003@economy-x-talk.com> Hoi Tom, I don't have an actual solution, but I could give some suggestions. I assume you have a tried a clean install of LiveCode already, without a "My LiveCode" folder in the documents folder (usually it is the documents folder; check the preferences window for the exact location). Do you use any libraries or substacks in a very old format, or did you save any of the stacks or substacks in LiveCode 8? Did you perhaps protect a stack with a password using an old commercial edition, while you're now using the community edition? Do you have any GIF's (or perhaps other image controls) in your stack, which might be corrupt? Is it possible that you created the stack in LiveCode 6.x or older on a Mac (PC) and are now trying to open it in LC 7 on Windows (Mac OS X)? Try using a Mac (PC) again. Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/22/2015 om 00:39 schreef tkuypers at telenet.be: > Turned off Messages, tried to open the file, same result :-( > There are no pre-open or startup scripts, nothing that should cause this behavior? > > Any other suggestions, anyone? > > > Met vriendelijke groeten, > Warm Regards, > > > > Ton Kuypers > +32 (0) 477 739 530 > > Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium > www.publishingtools4u.com > > > >> On 21-okt.-2015, at 20:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> On 10/21/2015 12:30 PM, tkuypers at telenet.be wrote: >>> But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a >>> back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? >> Did you try turning off Messages in the toolbar before opening the stack? >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tkuypers at telenet.be Wed Oct 21 18:58:00 2015 From: tkuypers at telenet.be (tkuypers at telenet.be) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 00:58:00 +0200 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! In-Reply-To: <56281698.6010003@economy-x-talk.com> References: <5627DA85.4050506@hyperactivesw.com> <56281698.6010003@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <4707DED2-42E6-40B4-84AB-840DBA1BFE96@telenet.be> Hi Mark, Tried the clean install, tried without extensions, tried LC8, all the same result. But you mention GIFs or other image controls? That might be the issue, it is a stack that downloads images from the web and when I closed it, one of them probably was showing on the stack? Met vriendelijke groeten, Warm Regards, Ton Kuypers +32 (0) 477 739 530 Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium www.publishingtools4u.com > On 22-okt.-2015, at 00:50, Mark Schonewille > wrote: > > Hoi Tom, > > I don't have an actual solution, but I could give some suggestions. > > I assume you have a tried a clean install of LiveCode already, without a "My LiveCode" folder in the documents folder (usually it is the documents folder; check the preferences window for the exact location). > > Do you use any libraries or substacks in a very old format, or did you save any of the stacks or substacks in LiveCode 8? Did you perhaps protect a stack with a password using an old commercial edition, while you're now using the community edition? > > Do you have any GIF's (or perhaps other image controls) in your stack, which might be corrupt? > > Is it possible that you created the stack in LiveCode 6.x or older on a Mac (PC) and are now trying to open it in LC 7 on Windows (Mac OS X)? Try using a Mac (PC) again. > > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 10/22/2015 om 00:39 schreef tkuypers at telenet.be: >> Turned off Messages, tried to open the file, same result :-( >> There are no pre-open or startup scripts, nothing that should cause this behavior? >> >> Any other suggestions, anyone? >> >> >> Met vriendelijke groeten, >> Warm Regards, >> >> >> >> Ton Kuypers >> +32 (0) 477 739 530 >> >> Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium >> www.publishingtools4u.com >> >> >> >>> On 21-okt.-2015, at 20:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>> On 10/21/2015 12:30 PM, tkuypers at telenet.be wrote: >>>> But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a >>>> back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? >>> Did you try turning off Messages in the toolbar before opening the stack? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 21 18:58:44 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:58:44 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562818A4.9090204@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:02 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Ali Lloyd wrote: >> >> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:21 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Which is precisely why you can configure the size of the tab >> >> > icons... >> >> >> >> How? >> > >> > Cog icon top right -> Header / Footer Size -> Large >> >> What happens when you try that on Ubuntu? >> >> -- > Well I'm at home as it's past 11pm. What happens when you try it on > Ubuntu (in 8.0 DP 7)? Much improved over DP 6. The menu itself still looks odd and is quite fidgety to use, as you'll see when you get back into the office at your Ubuntu machine. Sometimes it's possible to select the submenu, but takes a lot of tries for it to pop out. The menu has only one submenu, suggesting perhaps those items might be in the primary menu. And the menu reads "Header / Footer Size", but only a header is visible. But when I'm able to select the items in the submenu, in this latest build it does let me alter the size of the icons. Given the very significant usability boost with the larger size, have you considered making that the default? In fact, I wouldn't mind if there was an option for even one size larger. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From tkuypers at telenet.be Wed Oct 21 19:08:21 2015 From: tkuypers at telenet.be (tkuypers at telenet.be) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:08:21 +0200 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! In-Reply-To: <56281698.6010003@economy-x-talk.com> References: <5627DA85.4050506@hyperactivesw.com> <56281698.6010003@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: And thanks Mark, you got me thinking? Added the stack as a substack of a new stack, emptied all the fields and removed the image and the stack opens again! Now I know what to to, thanks again! Met vriendelijke groeten, Warm Regards, Ton Kuypers +32 (0) 477 739 530 Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium www.publishingtools4u.com > On 22-okt.-2015, at 00:50, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > Hoi Tom, > > I don't have an actual solution, but I could give some suggestions. > > I assume you have a tried a clean install of LiveCode already, without a "My LiveCode" folder in the documents folder (usually it is the documents folder; check the preferences window for the exact location). > > Do you use any libraries or substacks in a very old format, or did you save any of the stacks or substacks in LiveCode 8? Did you perhaps protect a stack with a password using an old commercial edition, while you're now using the community edition? > > Do you have any GIF's (or perhaps other image controls) in your stack, which might be corrupt? > > Is it possible that you created the stack in LiveCode 6.x or older on a Mac (PC) and are now trying to open it in LC 7 on Windows (Mac OS X)? Try using a Mac (PC) again. > > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 10/22/2015 om 00:39 schreef tkuypers at telenet.be: >> Turned off Messages, tried to open the file, same result :-( >> There are no pre-open or startup scripts, nothing that should cause this behavior? >> >> Any other suggestions, anyone? >> >> >> Met vriendelijke groeten, >> Warm Regards, >> >> >> >> Ton Kuypers >> +32 (0) 477 739 530 >> >> Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium >> www.publishingtools4u.com >> >> >> >>> On 21-okt.-2015, at 20:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>> On 10/21/2015 12:30 PM, tkuypers at telenet.be wrote: >>>> But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a >>>> back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? >>> Did you try turning off Messages in the toolbar before opening the stack? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed Oct 21 19:15:21 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 23:15:21 +0000 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: <562818A4.9090204@fourthworld.com> References: <562818A4.9090204@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: It won't be the only submenu for long - this pull request ( https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/564) has now been merged so you will be able to switch to text instead of icons in dp 8. Can you submit enhancement requests for making the default large and adding a size larger please? That way I won't forget about it :-) I don't remember having issues with the popping out of the menu before (even when submenu picks weren't being sent). Can you submit a bug report so that we have all the distro / architecture details please? On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 11:58 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:02 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> Ali Lloyd wrote: > >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:21 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> >> Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Which is precisely why you can configure the size of the tab > >> >> > icons... > >> >> > >> >> How? > >> > > >> > Cog icon top right -> Header / Footer Size -> Large > >> > >> What happens when you try that on Ubuntu? > >> > >> -- > > Well I'm at home as it's past 11pm. What happens when you try it on > > Ubuntu (in 8.0 DP 7)? > > Much improved over DP 6. > > The menu itself still looks odd and is quite fidgety to use, as you'll > see when you get back into the office at your Ubuntu machine. Sometimes > it's possible to select the submenu, but takes a lot of tries for it to > pop out. > > The menu has only one submenu, suggesting perhaps those items might be > in the primary menu. And the menu reads "Header / Footer Size", but > only a header is visible. > > But when I'm able to select the items in the submenu, in this latest > build it does let me alter the size of the icons. > > Given the very significant usability boost with the larger size, have > you considered making that the default? > > In fact, I wouldn't mind if there was an option for even one size larger. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Wed Oct 21 19:36:23 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:36:23 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: This is probably a question for any Atom experts out there but The autocomplete doesn't seem to be working as I expected. According to the Atom documentation, autocomplete should include words in the file you're editing, so for example if I have a local declaration, it should suggest the names of the variables for autocompletion but that's not happening. It's also a little odd that the suggestions include words that include the letters I'm typing anywhere in them so if I start typing "tVa", the suggestions include "toplevel stack", "twelveHourTime to trueORfalse", and "traversalOn". I'm hoping there are some settings to control this but haven't found any yet. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > This conversation is exactly why we need to develop some better > instructions for the non-command-liners. > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Thanks Mark and Monte. I'm now up and running but have not tried to deal > > with the linter/livecode server yet. > > > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > Home of lcStackBrowser and > > SQLiteAdmin > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Monte Goulding < > > monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 22 Oct 2015, at 5:05 am, Mark Wieder > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Open Atom > > > > Go to Preferences > > > > Select Install > > > > Make sure Packages is selected (it's the default) > > > > Type livecode into the search box and press return > > > > "language-livecode" should be top of the list > > > > Press Install > > > > > > And you also need the linter package if you want to see script errors > and > > > then check the livecode package settings and you will see some > additional > > > setup for the linter. For livecode script & server it needs to know > > where a > > > server engine is. If you symlink it to somewhere on $PATH as > > > livecode-server then you can leave it as default. For livecode builder > it > > > needs to know where lc-compile and the standard modules are. These > > default > > > assuming you have the livecode repo installed but I assume you can > > extract > > > them from a livecode install. I mentioned to Peter B it might be nice > if > > LC > > > had an install command line tools option to handle this stuff. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Monte > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Thu Oct 22 01:40:55 2015 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:40:55 -0700 Subject: Quicktime in Windows 10? In-Reply-To: <56281053.6050301@tweedly.net> References: <1445350389784-4697720.post@n4.nabble.com> <56268564.4000604@fourthworld.com> <56281053.6050301@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Apologies to Phillip K. Dick. On Wednesday, October 21, 2015, Alex Tweedly wrote: > I thought it was Androids, not men, who (which?) dream of Electric Sheep. > -- Alex. > > > From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 22 02:03:58 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 07:03:58 +0100 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! In-Reply-To: References: <5627DA85.4050506@hyperactivesw.com> <56281698.6010003@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <2355C0C2-A2A1-4ED5-94E9-37EE95A9C634@livecode.com> Hi Ton, Do you have the original stack which crashes still? If so could you submit it as a bug report so we can investigate? Thanks, Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 22 Oct 2015, at 00:08, "tkuypers at telenet.be" wrote: > > And thanks Mark, you got me thinking? > > Added the stack as a substack of a new stack, emptied all the fields and removed the image and the stack opens again! > Now I know what to to, thanks again! > > > Met vriendelijke groeten, > Warm Regards, > > > > Ton Kuypers > +32 (0) 477 739 530 > > Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium > www.publishingtools4u.com > > > > > >> On 22-okt.-2015, at 00:50, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> >> Hoi Tom, >> >> I don't have an actual solution, but I could give some suggestions. >> >> I assume you have a tried a clean install of LiveCode already, without a "My LiveCode" folder in the documents folder (usually it is the documents folder; check the preferences window for the exact location). >> >> Do you use any libraries or substacks in a very old format, or did you save any of the stacks or substacks in LiveCode 8? Did you perhaps protect a stack with a password using an old commercial edition, while you're now using the community edition? >> >> Do you have any GIF's (or perhaps other image controls) in your stack, which might be corrupt? >> >> Is it possible that you created the stack in LiveCode 6.x or older on a Mac (PC) and are now trying to open it in LC 7 on Windows (Mac OS X)? Try using a Mac (PC) again. >> >> Mark Schonewille >> http://economy-x-talk.com >> >> Buy the most extensive book on the >> LiveCode language: >> http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com >> >> Op 10/22/2015 om 00:39 schreef tkuypers at telenet.be: >>> Turned off Messages, tried to open the file, same result :-( >>> There are no pre-open or startup scripts, nothing that should cause this behavior? >>> >>> Any other suggestions, anyone? >>> >>> >>> Met vriendelijke groeten, >>> Warm Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Ton Kuypers >>> +32 (0) 477 739 530 >>> >>> Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium >>> www.publishingtools4u.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 21-okt.-2015, at 20:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> >>>> On 10/21/2015 12:30 PM, tkuypers at telenet.be wrote: >>>>> But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a >>>>> back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? >>>> Did you try turning off Messages in the toolbar before opening the stack? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Thu Oct 22 03:15:59 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:15:59 +0200 Subject: AW: LC 6.7.6 / 6.7.8 (rc 1) No externals.txt config file found In-Reply-To: <005701d10c03$3e7cb350$bb7619f0$@kestner.de> References: <005701d10c03$3e7cb350$bb7619f0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <001601d10c99$8145f430$83d1dc90$@kestner.de> The only externals.txt I know on my Win 7 machine, is in the folder: C:\Users\myUser\Documents\My LiveCode\Externals I have three entries in this file, like: Valentina4,v4rev.dll The two others are also from third party, one of them is that one listed in the warning of the standalone build. The other one isn't listed in the warning. What could be missing, where else does the standalone builder looks for the externals.txt? Any idea what is missing here? Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2015 15:20 An: LiveCode User Liste senden Betreff: LC 6.7.6 / 6.7.8 (rc 1) No externals.txt config file found Hello, LC 6.7.6 and 6.7.8 (rc 1) I am using two third party externals and see the first time the following warning in the standalone builder after a successful built: "Windows x86-32 external. No externals.txt config file found for MyExternal" Is this a new "feature" or do I have to set any other options in 6.7.6 and above? What is this .txt for? I do only get this warning with one of the two third party externals and have no idea, what makes the difference or where LC find the .txt for the other external. Can this catch me up in a later release as an error? Thanks Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Thu Oct 22 04:21:18 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:21:18 +0100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <56289C7E.606@livecode.com> On 21/10/2015 21:15, Mike Kerner wrote: > This conversation is exactly why we need to develop some better > instructions for the non-command-liners. Hi Mike, I agree. Does the info on the package's page seem adequate? https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode If not, what info is missing? How could it be better organised? Which parts are unclear? Obviously, it's important to make sure that it's easy to find the info that you need! The source file for that page is here, in case anyone wants to improve it directly: https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/blob/master/README.md Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 05:51:51 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:51:51 +0800 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:36 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > This is probably a question for any Atom experts out there but The > autocomplete doesn't seem to be working as I expected. > > I'm definitely NOT an Atom expert, but try this > According to the Atom documentation, autocomplete should include words in > the file you're editing, so for example if I have a local declaration, it > should suggest the names of the variables for autocompletion but that's not > happening. > > Go to Atom's Preferences - cmd comma on OS X In the middle column select Packages Scroll down until you find "autocomplete-plus" - be aware there are several autocomplete but the plus package should be the only one that has a "Settings" button Click on the Settings button and scroll down and about the 2nd last Option is "Default Provider" it is probably set to "Symbol" - I don't know why as it states it's 'experimental' - change it to 'Fuzzy'. This should find the words in your file. > It's also a little odd that the suggestions include words that include the > letters I'm typing anywhere in them so if I start typing "tVa", the > suggestions include "toplevel stack", "twelveHourTime to trueORfalse", and > "traversalOn". > > In the same settings pane go up to 'Use Strict Matching for Built-in Provider" and Tick the box. This should reduce the matches to what you are expecting. You need to restart Atom for these to take effect. By the way, if any packages (livecode or Atom community) are updated when you go to Atom's Settings pane and click on Packages in the middle column, any package updates that are available have an green "Update" button associated with them. Very easy. HTH From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 22 09:28:18 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:28:18 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Peter, The messages I was sending you are a good example - I wasn't able to make colorizing work until I fiddled the heck out of things. Anyway, my general rule is that if there are questions, the documentation isn't clear enough. I didn't think about tweaking the page in Git. On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:51 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:36 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > This is probably a question for any Atom experts out there but The > > autocomplete doesn't seem to be working as I expected. > > > > I'm definitely NOT an Atom expert, but try this > > > > According to the Atom documentation, autocomplete should include words in > > the file you're editing, so for example if I have a local declaration, it > > should suggest the names of the variables for autocompletion but that's > not > > happening. > > > > Go to Atom's Preferences - cmd comma on OS X > > In the middle column select Packages > > Scroll down until you find "autocomplete-plus" - be aware there are several > autocomplete but the plus package should be the only one that has a > "Settings" button > > Click on the Settings button and scroll down and about the 2nd last Option > is "Default Provider" it is probably set to "Symbol" - I don't know why as > it states it's 'experimental' - change it to 'Fuzzy'. This should find the > words in your file. > > > > It's also a little odd that the suggestions include words that include > the > > letters I'm typing anywhere in them so if I start typing "tVa", the > > suggestions include "toplevel stack", "twelveHourTime to trueORfalse", > and > > "traversalOn". > > > > In the same settings pane go up to 'Use Strict Matching for Built-in > Provider" and Tick the box. This should reduce the matches to what you are > expecting. > > You need to restart Atom for these to take effect. > > By the way, if any packages (livecode or Atom community) are updated when > you go to Atom's Settings pane and click on Packages in the middle column, > any package updates that are available have an green "Update" button > associated with them. Very easy. > > HTH > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 22 12:04:10 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:04:10 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <56289C7E.606@livecode.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <56289C7E.606@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi Peter, The only confusion for me was the section on the linter and the installation of LC server. I've never installed LC server so don;t know where to start. I assume there are instructions somewhere so a link to wherever that is would be good. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:21 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 21/10/2015 21:15, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> This conversation is exactly why we need to develop some better >> instructions for the non-command-liners. >> > > Hi Mike, > > I agree. Does the info on the package's page seem adequate? > > https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode > > If not, what info is missing? How could it be better organised? Which > parts are unclear? Obviously, it's important to make sure that it's easy > to find the info that you need! > > The source file for that page is here, in case anyone wants to improve it > directly: > > https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/blob/master/README.md > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 22 12:17:00 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:17:00 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Thanks Kay, that did the trick. There's still a couple of things Tom doesn't appear to do, both regarding indentation. The script editor ( and TextMate) automatically indent after if/repeat/switch statements, Atom doesn't. I know it has snippets that will insert a complete if block with indentation but if I simply type an if statement followed by return, no indentation. The other one is if I press the tab key in the IDE Script Editor, all my code is properly indented and aligned. I would guess that's too specific for Atom to be able to handle, but I miss that feature. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:36 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > This is probably a question for any Atom experts out there but The > > autocomplete doesn't seem to be working as I expected. > > > > I'm definitely NOT an Atom expert, but try this > > > > According to the Atom documentation, autocomplete should include words in > > the file you're editing, so for example if I have a local declaration, it > > should suggest the names of the variables for autocompletion but that's > not > > happening. > > > > Go to Atom's Preferences - cmd comma on OS X > > In the middle column select Packages > > Scroll down until you find "autocomplete-plus" - be aware there are several > autocomplete but the plus package should be the only one that has a > "Settings" button > > Click on the Settings button and scroll down and about the 2nd last Option > is "Default Provider" it is probably set to "Symbol" - I don't know why as > it states it's 'experimental' - change it to 'Fuzzy'. This should find the > words in your file. > > > > It's also a little odd that the suggestions include words that include > the > > letters I'm typing anywhere in them so if I start typing "tVa", the > > suggestions include "toplevel stack", "twelveHourTime to trueORfalse", > and > > "traversalOn". > > > > In the same settings pane go up to 'Use Strict Matching for Built-in > Provider" and Tick the box. This should reduce the matches to what you are > expecting. > > You need to restart Atom for these to take effect. > > By the way, if any packages (livecode or Atom community) are updated when > you go to Atom's Settings pane and click on Packages in the middle column, > any package updates that are available have an green "Update" button > associated with them. Very easy. > > HTH > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 22 12:38:49 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:38:49 +0000 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <4893B3E4-7861-41B1-BEB9-EB2413072C60@iotecdigital.com> I had typed up an email to that effect yesterday, but deleted it without sending it, because I thought that maybe I was asking too much of the Atom Editor. But if this is what ist should be doing then +1! Bob S On Oct 21, 2015, at 16:36 , Peter Haworth > wrote: This is probably a question for any Atom experts out there but The autocomplete doesn't seem to be working as I expected. According to the Atom documentation, autocomplete should include words in the file you're editing, so for example if I have a local declaration, it should suggest the names of the variables for autocompletion but that's not happening. It's also a little odd that the suggestions include words that include the letters I'm typing anywhere in them so if I start typing "tVa", the suggestions include "toplevel stack", "twelveHourTime to trueORfalse", and "traversalOn". I'm hoping there are some settings to control this but haven't found any yet. Pete From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 22 13:33:54 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:33:54 +0000 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> I need a lot more info before I could start using this. I read the "instructions" for the linter plugin for livecode, but it makes no sense, and adding what they have there to the config file and putting the path to Livecode (I assume that is what they are looking for) throws an error in Atom. So am I supposed to copy scripts back and forth, or is Atom supposed to be able to jack into my Livecode stack and read the scripts in the individual objects? Don't see how that is possible, and I don't see how it would be better, or that much better to use Atom as an alternative script editor for LC. Perhaps for LC server. Bob S On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:20 , Monte Goulding > wrote: And you also need the linter package if you want to see script errors and then check the livecode package settings and you will see some additional setup for the linter. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 22 13:54:36 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:54:36 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: The point isn't to use it for general purpose script editing. The point is to use it for LCB and LC Server scripts, and for libraries and other things that aren't all hooked into the IDE. Libraries are a good example, because if there are multiple people working on it, if the library is stored in Git, it's easier to do version control. Atom integrates very nicely with Git. I have been thinking about whether I would write a plugin for LC that would let Atom be easier to use as a script editor, by pulling scripts from LC and putting them back in stacks, which would overcome some of the annoyances with the LC SE, but we ain't there, or anywhere close. For now, for most general purpose script editing, the SE is the way to go. On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I need a lot more info before I could start using this. I read the > "instructions" for the linter plugin for livecode, but it makes no sense, > and adding what they have there to the config file and putting the path to > Livecode (I assume that is what they are looking for) throws an error in > Atom. > > So am I supposed to copy scripts back and forth, or is Atom supposed to be > able to jack into my Livecode stack and read the scripts in the individual > objects? Don't see how that is possible, and I don't see how it would be > better, or that much better to use Atom as an alternative script editor for > LC. Perhaps for LC server. > > Bob S > > > On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:20 , Monte Goulding > wrote: > > And you also need the linter package if you want to see script errors and > then check the livecode package settings and you will see some additional > setup for the linter. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 22 14:27:18 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:27:18 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike, There's already a plugin for that, the STS MLXEditor plugin. I'm using that and it works great. Right now, I'm liking TextMate better than Atom for editing stack scripts because it does the automatic indentation I mentioned, but maybe there's a way a setting in Atom to control that? Understand what you say about interface with git but I don't use git. ATom does have a great advantage over Textmate because it can apparently flag syntax errors but I need to figure out how to set up LC server to make that work. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > The point isn't to use it for general purpose script editing. The point is > to use it for LCB and LC Server scripts, and for libraries and other things > that aren't all hooked into the IDE. > > Libraries are a good example, because if there are multiple people working > on it, if the library is stored in Git, it's easier to do version control. > Atom integrates very nicely with Git. > > I have been thinking about whether I would write a plugin for LC that would > let Atom be easier to use as a script editor, by pulling scripts from LC > and putting them back in stacks, which would overcome some of the > annoyances with the LC SE, but we ain't there, or anywhere close. For now, > for most general purpose script editing, the SE is the way to go. > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > > > I need a lot more info before I could start using this. I read the > > "instructions" for the linter plugin for livecode, but it makes no sense, > > and adding what they have there to the config file and putting the path > to > > Livecode (I assume that is what they are looking for) throws an error in > > Atom. > > > > So am I supposed to copy scripts back and forth, or is Atom supposed to > be > > able to jack into my Livecode stack and read the scripts in the > individual > > objects? Don't see how that is possible, and I don't see how it would be > > better, or that much better to use Atom as an alternative script editor > for > > LC. Perhaps for LC server. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:20 , Monte Goulding > > wrote: > > > > And you also need the linter package if you want to see script errors and > > then check the livecode package settings and you will see some additional > > setup for the linter. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 22 14:43:20 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:43:20 +0000 Subject: Helpppppp, LC crashes on opening a project! In-Reply-To: References: <5627DA85.4050506@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9784B2E0-110A-4080-9B69-7D0F5199A6B4@iotecdigital.com> restore from a backup. You... DO have a backup don't you? Bob S > On Oct 21, 2015, at 15:39 , tkuypers at telenet.be wrote: > > Turned off Messages, tried to open the file, same result :-( > There are no pre-open or startup scripts, nothing that should cause this behavior? > > Any other suggestions, anyone? > > > Met vriendelijke groeten, > Warm Regards, > > > > Ton Kuypers > +32 (0) 477 739 530 > > Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium > www.publishingtools4u.com > > > >> On 21-okt.-2015, at 20:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> On 10/21/2015 12:30 PM, tkuypers at telenet.be wrote: >>> But yesterday I saved the project, made a copy in the finder as a >>> back-up, and now LC hans again when I try to open it? >> >> Did you try turning off Messages in the toolbar before opening the stack? >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 22 17:04:01 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:04:01 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: > On 23 Oct 2015, at 5:27 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > ATom does have a great advantage over Textmate because it can apparently > flag syntax errors but I need to figure out how to set up LC server to make > that work. Download LiveCode Server from downloads.livecode.com and unzip then put the path to the server engine in the field in settings titled LiveCode Server Engine Path. Cheers Monte From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 22 17:08:34 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:08:34 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: > On 23 Oct 2015, at 4:54 am, Mike Kerner wrote: > > I have been thinking about whether I would write a plugin for LC that would > let Atom be easier to use as a script editor, by pulling scripts from LC > and putting them back in stacks, which would overcome some of the > annoyances with the LC SE, but we ain't there, or anywhere close. For now, > for most general purpose script editing, the SE is the way to go. I?ve thought about this too. Actually in Atom we can have some code run whenever the file is saved. This seems nicer than constantly checking if the file is changed in a LC plugin. Should be fairly easy to setup something that sends datagrams back to a LC plugin on save. Cheers Monte From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Oct 22 17:13:32 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:13:32 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 23 Oct 2015, at 5:27 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > ATom does have a great advantage over Textmate because it can apparently > > flag syntax errors but I need to figure out how to set up LC server to > make > > that work. > > Download LiveCode Server from downloads.livecode.com < > http://downloads.livecode.com/> and unzip then put the path to the server > engine in the field in settings titled LiveCode Server Engine Path. > > Cheers > > Monte > I don't see a field in Atom's settings titled "LiveCode Server Engine Path". That seems odd that it would. Isn't Atom for any language? ~Roger From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 22 17:15:27 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:15:27 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <74CA3490-589D-48C9-80A5-621C66B08622@sweattechnologies.com> > On 23 Oct 2015, at 3:17 am, Peter Haworth wrote: > > The script editor ( and TextMate) automatically indent after > if/repeat/switch statements, Atom doesn't. I know it has snippets that > will insert a complete if block with indentation but if I simply type an if > statement followed by return, no indentation. This should be possible. > > The other one is if I press the tab key in the IDE Script Editor, all my > code is properly indented and aligned. I would guess that's too specific > for Atom to be able to handle, but I miss that feature. One problem here is tab is used to jump to fields in auto-completed snippets. It should be feasible to have some other key combo trigger a re-indent of the file. It may be that atom already has a standard key combo for this? In most IDEs this is a contextual menu option rather than a standard behavior. I image if you were in a team and using different editors that had slight differences in the re-ident behavior then it would make a real mess of you git history? Cheers Monte From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 22 17:17:43 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:17:43 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <32804158-8FF5-47B7-A000-C8AF883F6518@sweattechnologies.com> > On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:13 am, Roger Eller wrote: > > I don't see a field in Atom's settings titled "LiveCode Server Engine > Path". That seems odd that it would. Isn't Atom for any language? In the settings for the livecode language package in Settings > Packages From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 22 17:19:54 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:19:54 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <32804158-8FF5-47B7-A000-C8AF883F6518@sweattechnologies.com> References: <32804158-8FF5-47B7-A000-C8AF883F6518@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <562952FA.5080603@fourthworld.com> The length of this and related threads has me wondering: How hard would it be to make a good text editor in LiveCode? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Oct 22 17:21:46 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:21:46 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <32804158-8FF5-47B7-A000-C8AF883F6518@sweattechnologies.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> <32804158-8FF5-47B7-A000-C8AF883F6518@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:13 am, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > > I don't see a field in Atom's settings titled "LiveCode Server Engine > > Path". That seems odd that it would. Isn't Atom for any language? > > In the settings for the livecode language package in Settings > Packages > Oh. There it is. Thx. ~Roger From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 22 17:28:55 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:28:55 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <562952FA.5080603@fourthworld.com> References: <32804158-8FF5-47B7-A000-C8AF883F6518@sweattechnologies.com> <562952FA.5080603@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> > On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:19 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > How hard would it be to make a good text editor in LiveCode? It might not be hard but probably take considerably more time than the time it takes to read this thread and has taken for @peter-b and contributors to put together the livecode language package for atom. It took much less time for me to develop the linter for example than I spend on debugging simple little syntax errors in livecode server scripts for example. The ROI was well worth it and with Atom covering the 3 desktop platforms it seemed a no brainer. I?m not doing much with LCB yet but I suspect getting live script errors in that will be a bit of a boon too. Whether folks use if as an alternative editor for stack scripts was not really my goal when making contributions but I?ve already found it useful for script only stacks. Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 22 17:36:07 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:36:07 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:19 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> How hard would it be to make a good text editor in LiveCode? > > It might not be hard but probably take considerably more time than > the time it takes to read this thread and has taken for @peter-b > and contributors to put together the livecode language package for > atom. It took much less time for me to develop the linter for example > than I spend on debugging simple little syntax errors in livecode > server scripts for example. The ROI was well worth it and with Atom > covering the 3 desktop platforms it seemed a no brainer. I?m not > doing much with LCB yet but I suspect getting live script errors in > that will be a bit of a boon too. Whether folks use if as an > alternative editor for stack scripts was not really my goal when > making contributions but I?ve already found it useful for script only > stacks. My question wasn't about ROI, but where I was going with that is less interesting than your reply, which raises a question of its own: Given that PHP, Python, Lua, Ruby, and most other scripting languages deliver a great engine with no IDE at all, why don't we leverage the community's and the team's interest in using external editors and just either bundle one with LC and/or let people use their own? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From david at viral.academy Thu Oct 22 18:20:10 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 23:20:10 +0100 Subject: Updated LiveCode roadmap In-Reply-To: <5627B4E9.30409@livecode.com> References: <5627B4E9.30409@livecode.com> Message-ID: Open Language? On 21 October 2015 at 16:53, Peter TB Brett wrote: > Hi all, > > I've updated our roadmap page, which explains the work that the core dev > team is doing. It can be found at . > > Peter > > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 22 18:55:11 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:55:11 +1100 Subject: Updated LiveCode roadmap In-Reply-To: References: <5627B4E9.30409@livecode.com> Message-ID: <63514C56-AFF3-4557-924E-2E5E7034CF64@sweattechnologies.com> > On 23 Oct 2015, at 9:20 am, David Bovill wrote: > > Open Language? I can?t say I understand fully how it will all work but my understanding is there will be an eventual merge of LCB with LCS and LCB appears to already have some scope for defining syntax: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/engine/src/canvas.lcb Cheers Monte From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 22 19:10:56 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:10:56 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> > On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:36 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > My question wasn't about ROI, but where I was going with that is less interesting than your reply, which raises a question of its own: > > Given that PHP, Python, Lua, Ruby, and most other scripting languages deliver a great engine with no IDE at all, why don't we leverage the community's and the team's interest in using external editors and just either bundle one with LC and/or let people use their own? Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any problems we know about? Why not just continue with a built in editor and some IDE APIs that we can use to implement external editor plugins? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 22 19:26:54 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 23:26:54 +0000 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Trevor and Jerry worked on the Remo project, which was actually quite good. It ran as a separate application, but was able to access and save scripts. It also had a great application manager interface, quite superior to what we currently have. The "weakness" (if I can call it that) is that the debugger was not a step debugger. Instead you set breakpoints and at those points, Remo would save the current state of the variables at that break point. Jerry really liked this much better than a step debugger, but others liked the LC debugger method more. I was one of them, although I could see uses for both. So it's obviously possile to have an external application access the scripts in a stack. Why Remo went away I don't know, but I suspect changes in the engine were too much to keep up with. New commands and syntax would constantly have to be updated, and that is really the problematic thing about any external that does this sort of thing. You would need a debugger API of some sort, where you could pass commands and have some kind of response passed back. Not sure it's worth it. The wheel, whatever anyone's beef about it, is actually quite good already. Bob S On Oct 22, 2015, at 16:10 , Monte Goulding > wrote: On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:36 am, Richard Gaskin > wrote: My question wasn't about ROI, but where I was going with that is less interesting than your reply, which raises a question of its own: Given that PHP, Python, Lua, Ruby, and most other scripting languages deliver a great engine with no IDE at all, why don't we leverage the community's and the team's interest in using external editors and just either bundle one with LC and/or let people use their own? Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any problems we know about? Why not just continue with a built in editor and some IDE APIs that we can use to implement external editor plugins? From pete at lcsql.com Thu Oct 22 20:05:03 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 00:05:03 +0000 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Well there's Mark Wieder's GLX2 editor plugin Mark? On Thu, Oct 22, 2015, 4:27 PM Bob Sneidar wrote: > Trevor and Jerry worked on the Remo project, which was actually quite > good. It ran as a separate application, but was able to access and save > scripts. It also had a great application manager interface, quite superior > to what we currently have. > > The "weakness" (if I can call it that) is that the debugger was not a step > debugger. Instead you set breakpoints and at those points, Remo would save > the current state of the variables at that break point. Jerry really liked > this much better than a step debugger, but others liked the LC debugger > method more. I was one of them, although I could see uses for both. > > So it's obviously possile to have an external application access the > scripts in a stack. Why Remo went away I don't know, but I suspect changes > in the engine were too much to keep up with. New commands and syntax would > constantly have to be updated, and that is really the problematic thing > about any external that does this sort of thing. > > You would need a debugger API of some sort, where you could pass commands > and have some kind of response passed back. Not sure it's worth it. The > wheel, whatever anyone's beef about it, is actually quite good already. > > Bob S > > > On Oct 22, 2015, at 16:10 , Monte Goulding > wrote: > > > On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:36 am, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > My question wasn't about ROI, but where I was going with that is less > interesting than your reply, which raises a question of its own: > > Given that PHP, Python, Lua, Ruby, and most other scripting languages > deliver a great engine with no IDE at all, why don't we leverage the > community's and the team's interest in using external editors and just > either bundle one with LC and/or let people use their own? > > Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any problems we > know about? Why not just continue with a built in editor and some IDE APIs > that we can use to implement external editor plugins? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 22 21:09:50 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:09:50 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> References: <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <562988DE.6000200@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any > problems we know about? That does seem to be the question at hand here. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 22 21:29:14 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:29:14 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <562988DE.6000200@fourthworld.com> References: <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <562988DE.6000200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Having the various tools and palettes be in separate threads would solve a variety of problems, IMHO, including having variables and properties in danger of getting stamped due to instances and scope being mixed, the need for so many front scripts, the problem that I finally developed a recipe for, namely, thinking you're in the SE, hitting backspace or delete and instead wiping the object whose script you thought you were editing, etc. I would love the IDE to be multithreaded, and I would love to have multithreading as an option in projects I build, but that's an animal that should wait until 9. 8 is already meandering enough, already. On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Monte Goulding wrote: > > Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any > > problems we know about? > > That does seem to be the question at hand here. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 22 21:49:27 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:49:27 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56299227.2070800@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > Having the various tools and palettes be in separate threads would > solve a variety of problems, IMHO, including having variables and > properties in danger of getting stamped due to instances and scope > being mixed, the need for so many front scripts, the problem that I > finally developed a recipe for, namely, thinking you're in the SE, > hitting backspace or delete and instead wiping the object whose > script you thought you were editing, etc. That bug wasn't limited to the Script Editor; I've had it happen when deleting object names in the Inspector, watching it delete the object instead. That was recently fixed, no? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 22 22:02:23 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 22:02:23 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <56299227.2070800@fourthworld.com> References: <56299227.2070800@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: no. I came up with a recipe that the team could repeat, and then use to work on figuring out what's going on, so it's in process. On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Having the various tools and palettes be in separate threads would > > solve a variety of problems, IMHO, including having variables and > > properties in danger of getting stamped due to instances and scope > > being mixed, the need for so many front scripts, the problem that I > > finally developed a recipe for, namely, thinking you're in the SE, > > hitting backspace or delete and instead wiping the object whose > > script you thought you were editing, etc. > > That bug wasn't limited to the Script Editor; I've had it happen when > deleting object names in the Inspector, watching it delete the object > instead. > > That was recently fixed, no? > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Oct 22 22:11:22 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:11:22 -0700 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> On 10/22/2015 05:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Well there's Mark Wieder's GLX2 editor plugin > Mark? Sheesh. I've been without internet at home for the last couple of days (dead dsl modem) and relying on gmane for list access. This thread has gotten long in the tooth, so excuse me if I don't read most of it. The latest beta is online at https://bitbucket.org/mwieder/glx2/downloads but a big caveat: it not only hangs on linux in LC7/8, it takes all the cpu cycles with it. Works fine on osx in any version of LiveCode, and works fine on linux with a pre-7 engine. The team is currently scratching their collective heads about this, and there's not much I can do on my end. LC8-dp8 may shed some clues. ...and please don't call it *my* editor. I'm the caretaker, and I've been making all the code changes for the last few years, but the design and concept is Jerry Daniels'. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Oct 22 22:13:16 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:13:16 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <562997BC.6030702@ahsoftware.net> On 10/22/2015 02:08 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > I?ve thought about this too. Actually in Atom we can have some code run whenever the file is saved. This seems nicer than constantly checking if the file is changed in a LC plugin. Should be fairly easy to setup something that sends datagrams back to a LC plugin on save. Yes, that's how PowerDebug can debug standalone apps as well, so as a proof of concept I can say that passing packets around is a viable way to go. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu Oct 22 23:05:45 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 23:05:45 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> References: <32804158-8FF5-47B7-A000-C8AF883F6518@sweattechnologies.com> <562952FA.5080603@fourthworld.com> <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > I?m not doing much with LCB yet but I suspect getting live script errors > in that will be a bit of a boon too. > I've been using it tonight. It is awesome. Big productivity boost for LCB development. Thanks Monte and Peter! -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 22 23:25:18 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 22:25:18 -0500 Subject: Redraw issues using showAll Message-ID: <5629A89E.8070803@hyperactivesw.com> I'm not sure if this is a bug or an expected behavior, so I'm asking here before submitting a report. A mobile stack uses "showAll" fullscreenMode and is set up with double-size images so that there will be no black borders at the edges of any size screen. Content is centered within the original stack rect, which is sized for an iPhone. When viewed on a wider screen, like an iPad or an Android tablet, only the original stack rect is updated when changing cards. When the next card opens, the center area (the original stack size) is updated but the borders around it still show the previous card's artwork and objects. I expected the entire working screenrect to be updated, not just the area the iPhone was using. Bug? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 23 00:58:49 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:58:49 -0700 Subject: LC8 Geometry Manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5629BE89.5000004@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > Can you submit enhancement requests for making the default large and > adding a size larger please? That way I won't forget about it :-) Done: > I don't remember having issues with the popping out of the menu before > (even when submenu picks weren't being sent). Can you submit a bug > report so that we have all the distro / architecture details please? And done: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Fri Oct 23 05:08:53 2015 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:08:53 +0000 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I?d forgotten how much I liked GLX2. Thanks so much for maintaining it Mark. Terry... On 23/10/2015 1:11 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder" wrote: >On 10/22/2015 05:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >> Well there's Mark Wieder's GLX2 editor plugin >> Mark? > >Sheesh. I've been without internet at home for the last couple of days >(dead dsl modem) and relying on gmane for list access. This thread has >gotten long in the tooth, so excuse me if I don't read most of it. > >The latest beta is online at >https://bitbucket.org/mwieder/glx2/downloads > >but a big caveat: it not only hangs on linux in LC7/8, it takes all the >cpu cycles with it. Works fine on osx in any version of LiveCode, and >works fine on linux with a pre-7 engine. The team is currently >scratching their collective heads about this, and there's not much I can >do on my end. LC8-dp8 may shed some clues. > >...and please don't call it *my* editor. I'm the caretaker, and I've >been making all the code changes for the last few years, but the design >and concept is Jerry Daniels'. > >-- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 23 11:00:17 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:00:17 +0200 Subject: Different window behavior in LC 6.7.6 and up Message-ID: <002a01d10da3$87d664a0$97832de0$@kestner.de> Hello, I have a stack, using as a kind of answer dialog with 3 buttons, where I dynamically change the button labels, visibility, default, width etc. depending on the kind of answer dialog I just need. I usually keep this stack all time open and just show and hide it, when needed. In my dialog control handler I make all the settings and the last statement is: show stack foo. This worked fine all time long up to 6.5.2 on Win and OS X. In 6.7.6 on OS X LiveCode messes up the display of these dynamic buttons and mixes different states of them. It seems that the window always has the buttons and properties of the previous and the current window. On Windows it still works like ever. Now I found out that when using lock/unlock screen and putting the show stack as the first command, before changing the button properties, it works also on OS X correct. I can use this workaround, but I don't know, in how many programs and handlers I have used this method of displaying stacks and what will catch me up, when upgrading to 6.7.6. Is this a bug to be filed or wanted behavior without upward compatibility? Is my method how to handle this dialog stack so out of "how to do it" and it would be a good advice to check and change all my programs? Anybody have had similar experiences? Thanks Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Fri Oct 23 11:03:40 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:03:40 +0200 Subject: Different window behavior in LC 6.7.6 and up In-Reply-To: <002a01d10da3$87d664a0$97832de0$@kestner.de> References: <002a01d10da3$87d664a0$97832de0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <0e91280c3b41ce0ddb114fe0ea09c62b@livecode.com> Hi Tiemo, On 2015-10-23 17:00, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > I have a stack, using as a kind of answer dialog with 3 buttons, where > I > dynamically change the button labels, visibility, default, width etc. > depending on the kind of answer dialog I just need. I usually keep this > stack all time open and just show and hide it, when needed. ... > Is this a bug to be filed or wanted behavior without upward > compatibility? > Is my method how to handle this dialog stack so out of "how to do it" > and it > would be a good advice to check and change all my programs? Anybody > have had > similar experiences? I'm not entirely clear on what you are observing here. Can you file a bug with a recipe stack so we can take a look? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Oct 23 11:13:59 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 16:13:59 +0100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <74CA3490-589D-48C9-80A5-621C66B08622@sweattechnologies.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <74CA3490-589D-48C9-80A5-621C66B08622@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <562A4EB7.70401@livecode.com> On 22/10/2015 22:15, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 23 Oct 2015, at 3:17 am, Peter Haworth wrote: >> >> The script editor ( and TextMate) automatically indent after >> if/repeat/switch statements, Atom doesn't. I know it has snippets that >> will insert a complete if block with indentation but if I simply type an if >> statement followed by return, no indentation. > > This should be possible. Atom isn't the IDE script editor, and it isn't TextMate. If possible, we should match the "usual" behaviour of Atom. This probably includes properly indenting block templates. ;-) >> The other one is if I press the tab key in the IDE Script Editor, all my >> code is properly indented and aligned. I would guess that's too specific >> for Atom to be able to handle, but I miss that feature. > > One problem here is tab is used to jump to fields in auto-completed snippets. It should be feasible to have some other key combo trigger a re-indent of the file. It may be that atom already has a standard key combo for this? In most IDEs this is a contextual menu option rather than a standard behavior. I image if you were in a team and using different editors that had slight differences in the re-ident behavior then it would make a real mess of you git history? > In LCB files, Edit->Lines->Auto Indent will properly indent and align the selection (or the whole file if nothing is selected). This doesn't currently work for LiveCode Script files, probably because the indentation rules aren't quite right. I've filed an issue: https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues/16 You can edit your Atom keymap to add a keybinding for Auto Indent, if you want. https://atom.io/docs/latest/using-atom-basic-customization#customizing-key-bindings I find the IDE editor's auto-indentation behaviour pretty obnoxious (it regularly screws up the formatting in my comments), so I'll be happy to *not* have it in the Atom package. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Oct 23 11:15:25 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 16:15:25 +0100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <0108B47A-3BB7-40A8-8923-5B6F1BA1465C@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <562A4F0D.5010404@livecode.com> On 22/10/2015 18:33, Bob Sneidar wrote: > So am I supposed to copy scripts back and forth, or is Atom supposed > to be able to jack into my Livecode stack and read the scripts in the > individual objects? Don't see how that is possible, and I don't see > how it would be better, or that much better to use Atom as an > alternative script editor for LC. Perhaps for LC server. This is not supposed to replace the in-IDE script editor. It's intended for quick tweaks to script-only stacks, for writing LiveCode server scripts, and for editing LiveCode Builder source code. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 23 11:15:02 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:15:02 +0200 Subject: AW: Different window behavior in LC 6.7.6 and up In-Reply-To: <0e91280c3b41ce0ddb114fe0ea09c62b@livecode.com> References: <002a01d10da3$87d664a0$97832de0$@kestner.de> <0e91280c3b41ce0ddb114fe0ea09c62b@livecode.com> Message-ID: <002f01d10da5$97757fc0$c6607f40$@kestner.de> Hi Mark, I already tried to create a recipe, but didn't found the relevant statements yet. As soon I can reproduce this behavior in a test stack, I will file a bug in QC. Thanks Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Oktober 2015 17:04 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: Different window behavior in LC 6.7.6 and up Hi Tiemo, On 2015-10-23 17:00, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > I have a stack, using as a kind of answer dialog with 3 buttons, where > I dynamically change the button labels, visibility, default, width > etc. > depending on the kind of answer dialog I just need. I usually keep > this stack all time open and just show and hide it, when needed. ... > Is this a bug to be filed or wanted behavior without upward > compatibility? > Is my method how to handle this dialog stack so out of "how to do it" > and it > would be a good advice to check and change all my programs? Anybody > have had similar experiences? I'm not entirely clear on what you are observing here. Can you file a bug with a recipe stack so we can take a look? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Oct 23 11:25:00 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 16:25:00 +0100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <4893B3E4-7861-41B1-BEB9-EB2413072C60@iotecdigital.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <4893B3E4-7861-41B1-BEB9-EB2413072C60@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <562A514C.4030707@livecode.com> On 22/10/2015 17:38, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I had typed up an email to that effect yesterday, but deleted it without sending it, because I thought that maybe I was asking too much of the Atom Editor. But if this is what ist should be doing then +1! > > Bob S > > > On Oct 21, 2015, at 16:36 , Peter Haworth > wrote: > > This is probably a question for any Atom experts out there but The > autocomplete doesn't seem to be working as I expected. > > According to the Atom documentation, autocomplete should include words in > the file you're editing, so for example if I have a local declaration, it > should suggest the names of the variables for autocompletion but that's not > happening. Urgh, this is pretty broken in the 0.6.0. I'll file an issue and try to make sure it's fixed for the next release. https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues/18 Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Fri Oct 23 11:55:38 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:55:38 +0200 Subject: AW: Different window behavior in LC 6.7.6 and up In-Reply-To: <002f01d10da5$97757fc0$c6607f40$@kestner.de> References: <002a01d10da3$87d664a0$97832de0$@kestner.de> <0e91280c3b41ce0ddb114fe0ea09c62b@livecode.com> <002f01d10da5$97757fc0$c6607f40$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <003001d10dab$43bc7d10$cb357730$@kestner.de> I created a recipe stack and filed it as bug 16275 Thanks Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Oktober 2015 17:15 An: 'How to use LiveCode' Betreff: AW: Different window behavior in LC 6.7.6 and up Hi Mark, I already tried to create a recipe, but didn't found the relevant statements yet. As soon I can reproduce this behavior in a test stack, I will file a bug in QC. Thanks Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Oktober 2015 17:04 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: Different window behavior in LC 6.7.6 and up Hi Tiemo, On 2015-10-23 17:00, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > I have a stack, using as a kind of answer dialog with 3 buttons, where > I dynamically change the button labels, visibility, default, width > etc. > depending on the kind of answer dialog I just need. I usually keep > this stack all time open and just show and hide it, when needed. ... > Is this a bug to be filed or wanted behavior without upward > compatibility? > Is my method how to handle this dialog stack so out of "how to do it" > and it > would be a good advice to check and change all my programs? Anybody > have had similar experiences? I'm not entirely clear on what you are observing here. Can you file a bug with a recipe stack so we can take a look? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 23 13:00:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:00:39 -0700 Subject: REST API support (and OAuth too) Message-ID: <562A67B7.8050201@fourthworld.com> I periodically run into people who say they can't use LC with some REST APIs, but I've not been able to solicit specifics about what's not working for them. Most REST APIs require GET, POST, PUT, and DELETE. I know LC supports GET and POST, but are PUT and DELETE supported for HTTP as they are for FTP? Related, very few APIs are useful without OAuth support - is there a library in our community available under permissive license which provides that? TIA - -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From skip at magicgate.com Fri Oct 23 13:39:04 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 13:39:04 -0400 Subject: REST API support (and OAuth too) In-Reply-To: <562A67B7.8050201@fourthworld.com> References: <562A67B7.8050201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I would love to also have a solution to the OAuth issue as I run into this all the time. My gut feeling there is a way to deal with it, I have not found a way. SKIP KIMPEL On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I periodically run into people who say they can't use LC with some REST > APIs, but I've not been able to solicit specifics about what's not working > for them. > > Most REST APIs require GET, POST, PUT, and DELETE. I know LC supports GET > and POST, but are PUT and DELETE supported for HTTP as they are for FTP? > > Related, very few APIs are useful without OAuth support - is there a > library in our community available under permissive license which provides > that? > > TIA - > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 23 13:44:16 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 13:44:16 -0400 Subject: REST API support (and OAuth too) In-Reply-To: <562A67B7.8050201@fourthworld.com> References: <562A67B7.8050201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: This is a wonderful example of using a REST API with nothing but LiveCode. Read the .rtf manual included. http://www.phoenixsea.ch/downloads/Livecode/phxDropboxLib.zip ~Roger On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I periodically run into people who say they can't use LC with some REST > APIs, but I've not been able to solicit specifics about what's not working > for them. > > Most REST APIs require GET, POST, PUT, and DELETE. I know LC supports GET > and POST, but are PUT and DELETE supported for HTTP as they are for FTP? > > Related, very few APIs are useful without OAuth support - is there a > library in our community available under permissive license which provides > that? > > TIA - > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 16:43:26 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 13:43:26 -0700 Subject: How can a button not have properties? Message-ID: How can put the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd 1 of stack "old_cp" *possibly* come up empty? This has come up while copying stacks out of my program into a new file. I shed .9mb, but am having other issues. Anyway, this comes about in a maintenance script that sets the traits of buttons of a menu in most stacks to those of the main stack. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pete at lcsql.com Fri Oct 23 16:53:44 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 13:53:44 -0700 Subject: How can a button not have properties? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The properties property is an array so a simple put will not display anything. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > How can > > put the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd 1 of stack > "old_cp" > > > *possibly* come up empty? > > This has come up while copying stacks out of my program into a new file. I > shed .9mb, but am having other issues. > > > Anyway, this comes about in a maintenance script that sets the traits of > buttons of a menu in most stacks to those of the main stack. > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 17:07:00 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 14:07:00 -0700 Subject: How can a button not have properties? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > The properties property is an array so a simple put will not display > anything. > Yes, but put the keys of the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd 1 of stack "old_cp" also comes up empty. I found this when setting the properties of one button to that of another; a line of code that got used for a year or so on every single version change. It bombs out of the script with only an error in the message box. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Oct 23 17:09:21 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 23:09:21 +0200 Subject: How can a button not have properties? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562AA201.9070501@economy-x-talk.com> Hi, Actually, a property isn't an array. You have to put the properties property into a variable to make it an array. Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/23/2015 om 23:07 schreef Dr. Hawkins: > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> The properties property is an array so a simple put will not display >> anything. >> > Yes, but > > put the keys of the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd 1 of > stack "old_cp" > > > > also comes up empty. > > I found this when setting the properties of one button to that of another; > a line of code that got used for a year or so on every single version > change. It bombs out of the script with only an error in the message box. > > > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Oct 23 17:12:05 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:12:05 -0400 Subject: REST API support (and OAuth too) In-Reply-To: References: <562A67B7.8050201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: The dropbox library also uses oauth - but 1, not 2 There CAN be issues with REST API's, if the site in question implements TLS a certain way. I have a bug report in on this, but the team hasn't dealt with it, yet, presumably because it's a PITA to figure out, and they seem to think it's caused by misconfigured servers on the receiving end. On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > This is a wonderful example of using a REST API with nothing but LiveCode. > Read the .rtf manual included. > > http://www.phoenixsea.ch/downloads/Livecode/phxDropboxLib.zip > > ~Roger > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com> > wrote: > > > I periodically run into people who say they can't use LC with some REST > > APIs, but I've not been able to solicit specifics about what's not > working > > for them. > > > > Most REST APIs require GET, POST, PUT, and DELETE. I know LC supports > GET > > and POST, but are PUT and DELETE supported for HTTP as they are for FTP? > > > > Related, very few APIs are useful without OAuth support - is there a > > library in our community available under permissive license which > provides > > that? > > > > TIA - > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Oct 23 17:15:32 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:15:32 +0000 Subject: How can a button not have properties? In-Reply-To: <562AA201.9070501@economy-x-talk.com> References: <562AA201.9070501@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Indeed, or you can force evaluation to an array using brackets. put the keys of (the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd 1 of stack "old_cp") On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 10:09 PM Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Actually, a property isn't an array. You have to put the properties > property into a variable to make it an array. > > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 10/23/2015 om 23:07 schreef Dr. Hawkins: > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > >> The properties property is an array so a simple put will not display > >> anything. > >> > > Yes, but > > > > put the keys of the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd 1 > of > > stack "old_cp" > > > > > > > > also comes up empty. > > > > I found this when setting the properties of one button to that of > another; > > a line of code that got used for a year or so on every single version > > change. It bombs out of the script with only an error in the message > box. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Oct 23 17:24:35 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:24:35 +0000 Subject: How can a button not have properties? In-Reply-To: References: <562AA201.9070501@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: I wonder if this is something we can fix. At the moment "the keys" is hard-coded to allow the drag/clipboard data properties as source arrays. There's probably a parsing ambiguity involved in having an object property source that is not currently obvious to me. On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 10:15 PM Ali Lloyd wrote: > Indeed, or you can force evaluation to an array using brackets. > > put the keys of (the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd 1 of > stack "old_cp") > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 10:09 PM Mark Schonewille < > m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Actually, a property isn't an array. You have to put the properties >> property into a variable to make it an array. >> >> Mark Schonewille >> http://economy-x-talk.com >> >> Buy the most extensive book on the >> LiveCode language: >> http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com >> >> Op 10/23/2015 om 23:07 schreef Dr. Hawkins: >> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >> > >> >> The properties property is an array so a simple put will not display >> >> anything. >> >> >> > Yes, but >> > >> > put the keys of the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd >> 1 of >> > stack "old_cp" >> > >> > >> > >> > also comes up empty. >> > >> > I found this when setting the properties of one button to that of >> another; >> > a line of code that got used for a year or so on every single version >> > change. It bombs out of the script with only an error in the message >> box. >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 23 19:11:47 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 23:11:47 +0000 Subject: Sending encrypted and authenticated emails Message-ID: <23031B68-FF46-4D2D-850C-B9FFC77BDD70@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I just figured out how to send encrypted authenticated emails via Exchange servers (although the same process applies to non-Exchange systems) via a shell. Telnet has to be installed to do this however, and Windows 7 and up have the telnet client disabled by default for some reason. If I can use the sockets commands built into Livecode, I will attempt to do that instead. I am going to put together a library stack, and will probably need to beta test it. Anyone interested please send me a private message, and I will get a copy out to you at the earliest convenience. Bob S From brahma at hindu.org Fri Oct 23 22:51:19 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 02:51:19 +0000 Subject: Keep Selection Focus When Switching to Substack Message-ID: I think I asked this before, but? is there a way to keep the selection when switching to a substack that is set to palette? The goal is to have buttons that operate on selected text, but in a separate stack. Brahmanathaswami From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 02:58:33 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:58:33 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <562A514C.4030707@livecode.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <4893B3E4-7861-41B1-BEB9-EB2413072C60@iotecdigital.com> <562A514C.4030707@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 24 Oct 2015, at 2:25 am, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > Urgh, this is pretty broken in the 0.6.0. I'll file an issue and try to make sure it's fixed for the next release. I?ve submitted a fix for this and the indenting issues. There?s still a bit of a quirk with switch indenting because there appears to be no way to support the layout we are used to. The two choices we have that are bug free are: No case indentation: switch thing case thing1 code break case thing2 code break end switch or increase and decrease indent on case switch thing case thing1 code break case thing2 code break end switch I have implemented the latter because I think it is more readable and helpful when scanning code. The way it was originally implemented it relied on break to decrease the indent so it would look like this: switch thing case thing1 code break case thing2 code break end switch The problem here is the break should be part of the case block and if the developer wants continuation and therefore doesn?t use break the indentation gets messed up. It?s worthwhile noting that other language packages I looked at seem to use the no case indentation style but I?m not a fan? Anyone have any thoughts on this? Cheers Monte From paul at livecode.org Sat Oct 24 03:14:06 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 00:14:06 -0700 Subject: Keep Selection Focus When Switching to Substack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 23, 2015, at 19:51, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > I think I asked this before, > > but? is there a way to keep the selection when switching to a substack that is set to palette? > > The goal is to have buttons that operate on selected text, but in a separate stack. > > Brahmanathaswami > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Which LC version on which platform? I just tried LC 7 & 8 and it seemed to work OK, but in LC5.5.5 the focus was lost on switching to a palette stack. Maybe as insurance you could put the selectedChunk into a global or custom property on suspendStack. Paul From david at viral.academy Sat Oct 24 03:28:57 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 08:28:57 +0100 Subject: Keeping up to date with Message-ID: I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode does not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I upgrade for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync here? I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode - and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's not easy to find). I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work with Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to know? This is where you can find old versions of Xcode: https://developer.apple.com/downloads/?name=Xcode From sc at sahores-conseil.com Sat Oct 24 03:40:05 2015 From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:40:05 +0200 Subject: Keeping up to date with In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58DD370A-BA5A-4891-816E-F027429F4301@sahores-conseil.com> Hello David, Xcode 7.0.1 (7A1001) + LC 6.7.6 are, at least, working together ? -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com > Le 24 oct. 2015 ? 09:28, David Bovill a ?crit : > > I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode does > not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I upgrade > for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync here? > > I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which > version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode - > and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's not > easy to find). > > I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work with > Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to know? > > This is where you can find old versions of Xcode: > https://developer.apple.com/downloads/?name=Xcode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From david at viral.academy Sat Oct 24 04:13:35 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:13:35 +0100 Subject: Keeping up to date with In-Reply-To: <58DD370A-BA5A-4891-816E-F027429F4301@sahores-conseil.com> References: <58DD370A-BA5A-4891-816E-F027429F4301@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: Thanks - Pierre. - So Xcode 7.0.1 (7A1001) + LC 6.7.6 play well well - Seems like Xcode 7.0 or Xcode 7.01 does not play with iOS 9.1 - However you can use Xcode 7.01 with Livecode 7.1 - and then use Xcode 7.1 to install the app on iOS 9.1 I think the thing to do is not to upgrade Xcode in the Appstore - but to download it directly from https://developer.apple.com/downloads/?name=Xcode and then number the file according to the Xcode version, open it and then add the path to the Livecode Mobile Preferences - that way things should keep working if the latest version of Xcode is not playing well with Livecode On 24 October 2015 at 08:40, Pierre Sahores wrote: > Hello David, > > Xcode 7.0.1 (7A1001) + LC 6.7.6 are, at least, working together ? > > -- > Pierre Sahores > mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 > www.sahores-conseil.com > > > Le 24 oct. 2015 ? 09:28, David Bovill a ?crit : > > > > I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode > does > > not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I > upgrade > > for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync here? > > > > I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which > > version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode - > > and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's not > > easy to find). > > > > I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work with > > Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to > know? > > > > This is where you can find old versions of Xcode: > > https://developer.apple.com/downloads/?name=Xcode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Oct 24 04:28:23 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 10:28:23 +0200 Subject: Keeping up to date with In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14ffaf4ccbea4aa43019b4db2789e3a6@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 09:28, David Bovill wrote: > I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode > does > not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I > upgrade > for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync > here? > > I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which > version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode > - > and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's > not > easy to find). Yes, this information must be featured prominently in the release notes. I've filed a bug about this on your behalf: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16278 To download older versions of Xcode you need to log into https://developer.apple.com/ and go to the tools download page. Apple don't make this process easy to describe, unfortunately. Quite the opposite. -_- > I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work > with > Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to > know? Xcode 7.0 will work with the latest round of releases, including LiveCode 7.1.1, LiveCode 6.7.7, The next round of releases (expected early next week) will include Xcode 7.1 and iOS 9.1 support. I'll have a chat with the core team to see whether there are any process improvements that we can feasibly make to reduce this delay in future (i.e. I'm not promising anything, but I'll look into it). Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From david at viral.academy Sat Oct 24 04:32:07 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:32:07 +0100 Subject: Keeping up to date with In-Reply-To: <14ffaf4ccbea4aa43019b4db2789e3a6@livecode.com> References: <14ffaf4ccbea4aa43019b4db2789e3a6@livecode.com> Message-ID: Thanks Peter. The release notes section works with me. Why are the Release Notes PDF files that you have to manually search through? Can we not use GitHub for release notes, and use a script to create the PDF's? On Saturday, 24 October 2015, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-10-24 09:28, David Bovill wrote: > >> I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode >> does >> not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I upgrade >> for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync here? >> >> I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which >> version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode - >> and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's not >> easy to find). >> > > Yes, this information must be featured prominently in the release notes. > I've filed a bug about this on your behalf: > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16278 > > To download older versions of Xcode you need to log into > https://developer.apple.com/ and go to the tools download page. Apple > don't make this process easy to describe, unfortunately. Quite the > opposite. -_- > > I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work with >> Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to >> know? >> > > Xcode 7.0 will work with the latest round of releases, including LiveCode > 7.1.1, LiveCode 6.7.7, > > The next round of releases (expected early next week) will include Xcode > 7.1 and iOS 9.1 support. I'll have a chat with the core team to see > whether there are any process improvements that we can feasibly make to > reduce this delay in future (i.e. I'm not promising anything, but I'll look > into it). > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 04:38:49 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 19:38:49 +1100 Subject: Keeping up to date with In-Reply-To: References: <14ffaf4ccbea4aa43019b4db2789e3a6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <02EAAF72-7FC9-4E38-AF0C-A9DCAA8DF6FC@sweattechnologies.com> The release notes are generated from lots of tiny little markdown files in the repo/docs/notes. One for each PR. Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 24 Oct 2015, at 7:32 pm, David Bovill wrote: > > Can we not use GitHub for release notes, and use a script to > create the PDF's? From david at viral.academy Sat Oct 24 04:46:44 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:46:44 +0100 Subject: Keeping up to date with In-Reply-To: <02EAAF72-7FC9-4E38-AF0C-A9DCAA8DF6FC@sweattechnologies.com> References: <14ffaf4ccbea4aa43019b4db2789e3a6@livecode.com> <02EAAF72-7FC9-4E38-AF0C-A9DCAA8DF6FC@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Thanks Monte - will take a look. On Saturday, 24 October 2015, Monte Goulding wrote: > The release notes are generated from lots of tiny little markdown files in > the repo/docs/notes. One for each PR. > > Cheers > > Monte > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 24 Oct 2015, at 7:32 pm, David Bovill wrote: > > > > Can we not use GitHub for release notes, and use a script to > > create the PDF's? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 05:02:13 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:02:13 +0800 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <4893B3E4-7861-41B1-BEB9-EB2413072C60@iotecdigital.com> <562A514C.4030707@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Anyone have any thoughts on this? > > My first thought is... thank you! And my second is I agree with your latter choice. From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Sat Oct 24 05:49:53 2015 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 11:49:53 +0200 Subject: Why there is a difference between the gps timestamp and "the seconds" ? Message-ID: Hello, With mobilecurrentlocation() we can get the timestamp : "the time at which the measurement was taken, in seconds since 1970." if the same time i get "the seconds" ("The seconds function returns the total number of seconds since midnight, January 1, 1970 GMT.), I do not get back the same value, even if the coordinate change and seem to be good) : timestamp : 1445675392 the seconds : 1445679061 This is not always the same offset, but it's always "big". It is normal ? Thanks From admin at FlexibleLearning.com Sat Oct 24 06:32:33 2015 From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 11:32:33 +0100 Subject: Why there is a difference between the gps timestamp and "the seconds"? Message-ID: <000201d10e47$4c3120d0$e4936270$@FlexibleLearning.com> Looks like a 1 hour offset, plus a bit of lag. Hugh Senior FLCo > Hello, > > With mobilecurrentlocation() we can get the timestamp : "the time at which > the measurement was taken, in seconds since 1970." > if the same time i get "the seconds" ("The seconds function returns the total > number of seconds since midnight, January 1, 1970 GMT.), I do not get back > the same value, even if the coordinate change and seem to be good) : > > timestamp : 1445675392 > the seconds : 1445679061 > > This is not always the same offset, but it's always "big". > > It is normal ? > > Thanks From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca Sat Oct 24 11:10:38 2015 From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 11:10:38 -0400 Subject: Externals for Dummies Message-ID: <17D97C7B-4729-4074-9503-6D8E3EA7A5B4@videotron.ca> Howdy, I?d like to try my hand at creating externals from C code exported from Mathematica but not sure how to go about it. Anyone have a basic example of external building that they are willing to share? Mathematica produces beautiful graphs, and I?d like to create a front-end in LiveCode for my students to make graphs of portfolio frontiers interactively. Regards, Gregory From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 12:10:10 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:10:10 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? Message-ID: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> I was looking for a clear definition of LiveCode's proposed "Open Language", but I've come up empty. The original Kickstarter page says only: We will introduce a new technology called ?Open Language?. With Open Language, the more technical members of our community can create English-like words and phrases to enable everyone to write programs that use any aspect of a computer or device. If you?re technical, you can read all about that here. ...where "here" is a link to a blog post that no longer exists. Within the community there have been broadly varying ideas about what "Open Language" might entail, and I was hoping that blog post might clear things up but alas it's not even in the Wayback Machine. Anyone here have a copy of that blog post? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Oct 24 12:07:49 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:07:49 -0700 Subject: Externals for Dummies In-Reply-To: <17D97C7B-4729-4074-9503-6D8E3EA7A5B4@videotron.ca> References: <17D97C7B-4729-4074-9503-6D8E3EA7A5B4@videotron.ca> Message-ID: That would be a good book. Put in some really good code from simple to advanced samples that would cover different methods of using the data in the C code in a stack. I would buy it! John Balgenorth > On Oct 24, 2015, at 8:10 AM, Gregory Lypny wrote: > > Howdy, > > I?d like to try my hand at creating externals from C code exported from Mathematica but not sure how to go about it. Anyone have a basic example of external building that they are willing to share? > > Mathematica produces beautiful graphs, and I?d like to create a front-end in LiveCode for my students to make graphs of portfolio frontiers interactively. > > Regards, > > Gregory > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 12:26:30 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 12:26:30 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I found this definition of open language, which might be on the right lines too: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 24 12:36:58 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:36:58 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <4893B3E4-7861-41B1-BEB9-EB2413072C60@iotecdigital.com> <562A514C.4030707@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562BB3AA.8000304@ahsoftware.net> On 10/24/2015 02:02 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Monte Goulding > wrote: > >> Anyone have any thoughts on this? >> >> My first thought is... thank you! And my second is I agree with your > latter choice. Those are three icky choices, but I'm with Kay on this. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Sat Oct 24 12:39:35 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:39:35 +0100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB libraries and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax rather than being limited to function call / command call / property access syntax. It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax can be very easily evolved and augmented. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 24 Oct 2015, at 17:10, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > I was looking for a clear definition of LiveCode's proposed "Open Language", but I've come up empty. > > The original Kickstarter page says only: > > We will introduce a new technology called ?Open Language?. > With Open Language, the more technical members of our community > can create English-like words and phrases to enable everyone to > write programs that use any aspect of a computer or device. If > you?re technical, you can read all about that here. > > ...where "here" is a link to a blog post that no longer exists. > > Within the community there have been broadly varying ideas about what "Open Language" might entail, and I was hoping that blog post might clear things up but alas it's not even in the Wayback Machine. > > Anyone here have a copy of that blog post? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 12:42:29 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:42:29 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562BB4F5.2010007@fourthworld.com> Colin Holgate wrote: > I found this definition of open language, which might be on the right lines too: > > http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766 A good reminder for us all to keep our ACM memberships current. But alas mine has lapsed, and before I spend US$15 to download the 2001 article to see if it matches what LiveCode Ltd. proposed for their system in 2013, I'm hoping we might find some definition specific to their plans not behind a paywall. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 24 12:42:48 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:42:48 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <562A4EB7.70401@livecode.com> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <74CA3490-589D-48C9-80A5-621C66B08622@sweattechnologies.com> <562A4EB7.70401@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562BB508.7040203@ahsoftware.net> On 10/23/2015 08:13 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > I find the IDE editor's auto-indentation behaviour pretty obnoxious (it > regularly screws up the formatting in my comments), so I'll be happy to > *not* have it in the Atom package. that's actually a problem with the script editor, not with the auto-indentation feature. And yeah, when I have to use the built-in editor instead of glx2 I have to take care not to edit block comments because they'll get all messed up. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 24 12:45:23 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:45:23 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562BB5A3.8000105@ahsoftware.net> On 10/24/2015 09:39 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax can be very easily evolved and augmented. Cool. I'm looking forward to finally resolving ambiguities like Is the turkey ready to eat yet? and I left her behind for you. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 24 12:45:08 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:45:08 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <4893B3E4-7861-41B1-BEB9-EB2413072C60@iotecdigital.com> <562A514C.4030707@livecode.com> Message-ID: Thanks Monte. I agree with your choice. FYI, the LC module for Textmate does it per your first example with the case, and all the statements under it at the same indent level, not pretty. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Monte Goulding < monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > > On 24 Oct 2015, at 2:25 am, Peter TB Brett > wrote: > > > > Urgh, this is pretty broken in the 0.6.0. I'll file an issue and try to > make sure it's fixed for the next release. > > I?ve submitted a fix for this and the indenting issues. There?s still a > bit of a quirk with switch indenting because there appears to be no way to > support the layout we are used to. The two choices we have that are bug > free are: > > No case indentation: > > switch thing > case thing1 > code > break > case thing2 > code > break > end switch > > or increase and decrease indent on case > > switch thing > case thing1 > code > break > case thing2 > code > break > end switch > > I have implemented the latter because I think it is more readable and > helpful when scanning code. The way it was originally implemented it relied > on break to decrease the indent so it would look like this: > > switch thing > case thing1 > code > break > case thing2 > code > break > end switch > > The problem here is the break should be part of the case block and if the > developer wants continuation and therefore doesn?t use break the > indentation gets messed up. It?s worthwhile noting that other language > packages I looked at seem to use the no case indentation style but I?m not > a fan? Anyone have any thoughts on this? > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 24 12:47:40 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:47:40 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <562BB508.7040203@ahsoftware.net> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <74CA3490-589D-48C9-80A5-621C66B08622@sweattechnologies.com> <562A4EB7.70401@livecode.com> <562BB508.7040203@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Interesting, I haven't seen that problem, at least not in regards to indentation. I have seen the script editor fairly frequently highlight code outside a block comment in green as if it were inside it. The code still executes OK but a bit scary the first time I saw it happen. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/23/2015 08:13 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > I find the IDE editor's auto-indentation behaviour pretty obnoxious (it >> regularly screws up the formatting in my comments), so I'll be happy to >> *not* have it in the Atom package. >> > > that's actually a problem with the script editor, not with the > auto-indentation feature. And yeah, when I have to use the built-in editor > instead of glx2 I have to take care not to edit block comments because > they'll get all messed up. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 12:48:50 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 12:48:50 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BB4F5.2010007@fourthworld.com> References: <562BB4F5.2010007@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I don?t know what ACM is! Google found that page for me. > On Oct 24, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> I found this definition of open language, which might be on the right lines too: >> >> http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766 > > A good reminder for us all to keep our ACM memberships current. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 12:53:30 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 09:53:30 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB > libraries and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax > rather than being limited to function call / command call / property > access syntax. > > It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define > english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax > can be very easily evolved and augmented. Two questions: 1. Do we have a projected timeline for that? 2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing basic things like setting the rect of a button? :) (This is why I get food thrown at me while speaking at LiveCode conferences) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr Sat Oct 24 12:55:02 2015 From: francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr (=?windows-1252?Q?Fran=E7ois_Chaplais?=) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:55:02 +0200 Subject: Externals for Dummies In-Reply-To: References: <17D97C7B-4729-4074-9503-6D8E3EA7A5B4@videotron.ca> Message-ID: +1 Le 24 oct. 2015 ? 18:07, JB a ?crit : > That would be a good book. Put in some really > good code from simple to advanced samples > that would cover different methods of using the > data in the C code in a stack. > > I would buy it! > > John Balgenorth > > >> On Oct 24, 2015, at 8:10 AM, Gregory Lypny wrote: >> >> Howdy, >> >> I?d like to try my hand at creating externals from C code exported from Mathematica but not sure how to go about it. Anyone have a basic example of external building that they are willing to share? >> >> Mathematica produces beautiful graphs, and I?d like to create a front-end in LiveCode for my students to make graphs of portfolio frontiers interactively. >> >> Regards, >> >> Gregory >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sat Oct 24 13:03:14 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 13:03:14 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BB5A3.8000105@ahsoftware.net> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB5A3.8000105@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: if "she" ain't in the fld then look in the barn else if she is among theCows then come back home fer supper end if end if On Oct 24, 2015 12:45 PM, "Mark Wieder" wrote: > On 10/24/2015 09:39 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define >> english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax can be >> very easily evolved and augmented. >> > > Cool. I'm looking forward to finally resolving ambiguities like > > Is the turkey ready to eat yet? > and > I left her behind for you. > > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Oct 24 13:11:05 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 10:11:05 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BB5A3.8000105@ahsoftware.net> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB5A3.8000105@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <9836CE61-72F3-4783-8DA6-7717F6817C4D@pacifier.com> > On Oct 24, 2015, at 9:45 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > I left her behind for you. > > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Your choice of words is really important. I was recently listening to a couple of old songs. One song the lyrics said, ?I don?t know why I love you but I do? Then I thought about it and decided she probably wants a better answer than that even though the song is nice. The other one is from Mockingbird. It said ?If that mockingbird doesn?t sing he is going to buy me a diamond ring? I am thinking the mockingbird will live longer if it keeps quiet. John Balgenorth From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 13:12:48 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 10:12:48 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562BBC10.7070408@fourthworld.com> Colin Holgate wrote: >> On Oct 24, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> I found this definition of open language, which might be on >>> the right lines too: >>> >>> http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766 >> >> A good reminder for us all to keep our ACM memberships current. > > I don?t know what ACM is! Google found that page for me. Kindly indulge this good work for our friends at the ACM: The Association for Computing Machinery is one of the oldest and most respected organizations for computing professionals and enthusiasts. One of their membership options grants access to the ACM library, one of the world's most comprehensive collections of research related to nearly every area of computing, such as the article linked to above. The ACM includes many special interest groups (SIGs), of which SIGGRAPH is among their most famous - the annual SIGGRAPH conference is considered one of the premier showcases for new and interesting projects in computing imaging, 3D, motion graphics, VR, and more. For UX/UI designers the ACM SIGCHI (Computer-Human Interaction) is a great resource providing a bi-monthly publication, Interactions, and has many local chapters around the world: I've also had memberships with the Interaction Design Association and the User Experience Professionals Association, but as much as I've enjoyed their meetings and publications I still consider ACM SIGCHI the creme de le creme of usability orgs. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Sat Oct 24 13:40:10 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:10 +0100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com>, <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> Message-ID: Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit', 'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to be used in liveCode syntax'... > Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB libraries and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax rather than being limited to function call / command call / property access syntax. > > It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax can be very easily evolved and augmented. > > Mark. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 24 14:12:29 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 11:12:29 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <74CA3490-589D-48C9-80A5-621C66B08622@sweattechnologies.com> <562A4EB7.70401@livecode.com> <562BB508.7040203@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <562BCA0D.2070007@ahsoftware.net> On 10/24/2015 09:47 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Interesting, I haven't seen that problem, at least not in regards to > indentation. Try this: /* * this is indented six spaces for emphasis * but the script editor will reformat it for you * to a single space */ -- and it will also remove the leading space here. > I have seen the script editor fairly frequently highlight > code outside a block comment in green as if it were inside it. The code > still executes OK but a bit scary the first time I saw it happen. Yep. I think the trick that's mostly worked for me there is to set the cursor in the previous handler and hit the tab key to reformat. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From pete at lcsql.com Sat Oct 24 14:14:28 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 11:14:28 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor In-Reply-To: <562BCA0D.2070007@ahsoftware.net> References: <56264B1B.5000407@livecode.com> <562749D9.6000001@livecode.com> <4ACD8492-9948-4DD8-A163-D31B53C100CE@sweattechnologies.com> <74CA3490-589D-48C9-80A5-621C66B08622@sweattechnologies.com> <562A4EB7.70401@livecode.com> <562BB508.7040203@ahsoftware.net> <562BCA0D.2070007@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: OK, I see what you mean now and yes I've seen that and yes, it's annoying. Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/24/2015 09:47 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Interesting, I haven't seen that problem, at least not in regards to >> indentation. >> > > Try this: > > /* > * this is indented six spaces for emphasis > * but the script editor will reformat it for you > * to a single space > */ -- and it will also remove the leading space here. > > I have seen the script editor fairly frequently highlight >> code outside a block comment in green as if it were inside it. The code >> still executes OK but a bit scary the first time I saw it happen. >> > > Yep. I think the trick that's mostly worked for me there is to set the > cursor in the previous handler and hit the tab key to reformat. > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 14:17:40 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 11:17:40 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562BCB44.3030103@fourthworld.com> John Dixon wrote: >> Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB >> libraries and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax >> rather than being limited to function call / command call / property >> access syntax. >> >> It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define >> english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax >> can be very easily evolved and augmented. > > Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit', > 'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps > there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to > be used in liveCode syntax'... This is part of the reason I raised this thread. We've seen some rather broadly varying ideas about what Open Language means, but I share your concerns and I'm not sure that's what Mark intended, even if some are excited at the prospect. I believe the core of the issue is that to date all xTalks have required comma-delimited arguments for custom commands. The good news is that this is pretty much how most programming languages work, so it's not particularly onerous. But the bad news is that it means that the libraries we share bear no relationship syntactically with the build-in commands. I *believe* (emphasis added to note that I'd he happy to be corrected by Mr. Waddingham if this isn't correct) that Open Language was proposed primarily (perhaps only) to allow library scripters to define syntax that fits in more closely with the flavor of the rest of the language. For example, today I might write: CreateDocument "Window Title", tFilePath ...but with Open Language I could write: create document titled "Window Title" using file tFilePath Mr. Waddingham, is that correct? That said, I admit I'm rather enamored of this request: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at livecode.org Sat Oct 24 14:37:27 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:37:27 +0200 Subject: Externals for Dummies Message-ID: Probably you don't need an external because LC has everything available. I made a simple stack in 2014 that is kind of an interface to Mathematica/Wolfram (so you can use one copy of Mathematica locally as 'serving'). Runs on Mac/Win/Linux/RaspberryPi. It is even fast enough on a RaspberryPi (Raspbian includes a free copy of Wolfram/Mathematica 10). Some people have a "Raspi cloud" serving ... The stack includes 10 Examples (from plots to producing a table of function values). See http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=22183 From simon at asato-media.com Sat Oct 24 14:33:38 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 11:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Keeping up to date with In-Reply-To: <14ffaf4ccbea4aa43019b4db2789e3a6@livecode.com> References: <14ffaf4ccbea4aa43019b4db2789e3a6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1445711618711-4697914.post@n4.nabble.com> I thought this was a good solution; https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Keeping-up-to-date-with-tp4697882p4697914.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From david at viral.academy Sat Oct 24 14:49:16 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 19:49:16 +0100 Subject: Keeping up to date with In-Reply-To: <1445711618711-4697914.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <14ffaf4ccbea4aa43019b4db2789e3a6@livecode.com> <1445711618711-4697914.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Good find. Unfortunately it is out of date. I think the best solution is to get the devs that make releases to include this information in the Release notes - a script culd then pull all this information out into a table? On Saturday, 24 October 2015, Simon wrote: > I thought this was a good solution; > https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/ > > Simon > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Keeping-up-to-date-with-tp4697882p4697914.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 14:51:31 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:51:31 +0300 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> On 24/10/15 19:10, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I was looking for a clear definition of LiveCode's proposed "Open > Language", but I've come up empty. > > The original Kickstarter page says only: > > We will introduce a new technology called ?Open Language?. > With Open Language, the more technical members of our community > can create English-like words and phrases to enable everyone to > write programs that use any aspect of a computer or device. If > you?re technical, you can read all about that here. Talk about throw-away lines . . . Surely (?????) LiveCode already does this: use English-like words and phrases to enable everyone to write programs ???? The sticking point is this bit: "to enable everyone to write programs that use any aspect of a computer or device." Well: I still cannot talk to my USB robot or my USB footpedal set with LiveCode . . . > > ...where "here" is a link to a blog post that no longer exists. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that "someone" went 'off at the mouth' a bit during the Kickstarter and promised things that, either, they had no intention of keeping, or promised things that, really, they didn't realise would involve them in so many unseen complexities that they would be, effectively, unrealisable. The definition: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766 is JUST a proposal, and as such, it is nothing more, and does not involve a feasibility study nor a prototype, AND as people are NOT computers, not vice-versa, I cannot see how an "Open Language" = with Human-like logic and endlessly extensible in a human-like fashion is ever going to be possible. I would say, that LiveCode, at its best [because, recently, in its efforts to be 'clever' is seems to strayed away from that] is pretty near to having some sort of 'naturalistic' language; but that is NOT an Open language. > > Within the community there have been broadly varying ideas about what > "Open Language" might entail, and I was hoping that blog post might > clear things up but alas it's not even in the Wayback Machine. > > Anyone here have a copy of that blog post? > How incredibly convenient that quite a few 'promises' that we remember from the Kickstarter have evaporated into the miasma of cyber-space so we cannot hold people to them . . . . I don't quite know why the user base of LiveCode still refuses to accept that RunRev is NOT being nearly as 'open' with them as, perhaps, one would expect from an Open Source thing. Despite RunRev's repeated protestations these sort of 'things' keep coming up. I do believe that until RunRev can "come clean" with their user-base there will be a growing feeling of distrust which will only harm them. Expanded too quickly, promised too many things too quickly, kept changing prices and conditions too quickly, avoiding some embarrassing truths . . . um. Let's imagine a situation: Dear kids, those of you who would normally attend classes with me on Tuesday morning will be unable to as, unfortunately, I have an unavoidable doctor's appointment, therefore I have had to move your class to Wednesday morning: I am sorry to have put you to this inconvenience. That is what I have just sent the 7 children who are due to have a class with me on Tuesday: it's called "being 100% open". It has never hurt my business. Richmond. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 24 14:59:58 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 13:59:58 -0500 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BCB44.3030103@fourthworld.com> References: <562BCB44.3030103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4FF435CE-1230-47C8-AE56-03709874A995@hyperactivesw.com> I was just going to post that link when I read your reply. It's my favorite too and I hope it never goes away. On October 24, 2015 1:17:40 PM CDT, Richard Gaskin wrote: >That said, I admit I'm rather enamored of this request: > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 15:00:07 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 22:00:07 +0300 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <562BD537.7020407@gmail.com> On 24/10/15 19:53, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mark Waddingham wrote: > > > Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB > > libraries and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax > > rather than being limited to function call / command call / property > > access syntax. > > > > It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define > > english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax > > can be very easily evolved and augmented. > > Two questions: > > 1. Do we have a projected timeline for that? > > 2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often > incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing > basic things like setting the rect of a button? :) (This is why I > get food thrown at me while speaking at LiveCode conferences) > Well, what to one person is 'natural language' may not be to another: and a "10,000 different, often incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options" does seem to sum that problem up fairly effectively. It is an unreachable ideal for the plain and simple reason that computers do not work in the same way as human brains. R. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 15:02:18 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 12:02:18 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> References: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562BD5BA.1030907@fourthworld.com> Richmond write: > The sticking point is this bit: > > "to enable everyone to write programs that use any aspect of a > computer or device." > > Well: I still cannot talk to my USB robot or my USB footpedal set > with LiveCode . . . I agree it would have been clearer to have specified "or computing device". But since "device" is commonly used to refer collectively to phones, phablets, and tablets, I've seen very few people so certain that it meant "all possible devices ever manufactured for any purpose however specialized" that they felt compelled to spam "RunRev doesn't care" all over the forums. Given this expectation, and that the number of folks using Lua, Python, or JavaScript is far larger than our humble LiveCode audience, one might ask whether the core dev teams for those and other scripting language has provided you built-in commands for the specific device you have? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 15:08:48 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 22:08:48 +0300 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BD5BA.1030907@fourthworld.com> References: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> <562BD5BA.1030907@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <562BD740.5050505@gmail.com> On 24/10/15 22:02, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond write: > > > The sticking point is this bit: > > > > "to enable everyone to write programs that use any aspect of a > > computer or device." > > > > Well: I still cannot talk to my USB robot or my USB footpedal set > > with LiveCode . . . > > I agree it would have been clearer to have specified "or computing > device". But since "device" is commonly used to refer collectively to > phones, phablets, and tablets, I've seen very few people so certain > that it meant "all possible devices ever manufactured for any purpose > however specialized" that they felt compelled to spam "RunRev doesn't > care" all over the forums. > > Given this expectation, and that the number of folks using Lua, > Python, or JavaScript is far larger than our humble LiveCode audience, > one might ask whether the core dev teams for those and other scripting > language has provided you built-in commands for the specific device > you have? Aah: they probably haven't. I don't think that "RunRev doesn't care", but I think they have promised rather more than they are capable of delivering in a semi-reasonable time-frame, and as a resilt they have got a lots of people's expectations up in a way that may be quite unrealistic, and it might not be a bad idea if they did a spot of retrenchment instead of keeping quiet. Certainly, if RunRev were to state something like this: "We would very much like to work towards Open Language, however we do realise something now, that we might have been unaware of in our enthusiasm over the Kickstarter and launching an Open Source version of LiveCode, so it would be unreasonable for users to expect anything near a fully open langauge sometime soon." That might let people who are wondering, that they care. R. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Oct 24 15:10:49 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:10:49 +0200 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3d5e9b222bfe1a914745992b40d7fa61@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 18:53, Richard Gaskin wrote: > 2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often > incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing > basic things like setting the rect of a button? To quote Gilbert & Sullivan: "Well, yes, that's the idea." Not too different from the status quo, though, is it? I can already modify the bounding box of a button by setting its "left", "right", "top", "bottom", "topLeft", "topRight", "bottomLeft", "bottomRight", "rect", or "rectangle" pseudo-properties. Some people believe that programming languages should be designed in such a way that, for any given task, "There should be one - and preferably only one - obvious way to do it." This is not the design philosophy of LiveCode. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 15:12:59 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 12:12:59 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> References: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562BD83B.5060608@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > as people are NOT computers, not vice-versa, I cannot see how an > "Open Language" = with Human-like logic and endlessly extensible > in a human-like fashion is ever going to be possible. One could argue it never has, at least with some commands. My favorite example is the "export snapshot" command - even with the Dictionary guidance we all need to turn to for that no matter how many times we've used it, it's so complex with such a combinatorial explosion of options that I defy anyone to make a readable BNF for it. :) Instead of using commas we delimit options with assistive noise words, like "at" or "with", but with a command as complex as "export" snapshot" do we specify the image compressor using "with" or "as", or is "as" for the file name, since "at" is used for size? And all the while, just like comma-delimited args, we must memorize the order of them. You can't just use "at" followed by the thumbnail size just anywhere; all options must be used in a specific order. For some complex things I find myself admiing R, XML, and other languages where arguments are name-value pairs. For example, if "export snapshot" were an R command it might look something like: ExportSnapshot file=Myfile.png format=png size=128,256 Even better, in R most arguments are purely optional; anything omitted uses a reasonable default. LiveCode kinda does this too, but we really appreciate it with R's plot command: plot ...gives you a gorgeous scatter plot with useful x- and y-axis labels and well-placed tick marks, without having to specify anything; you can specify as much or as little as you like with most commands and expect a useful result. I'm not proposing LiveCode switch to name-value pair arguments, but in some cases it would be a nice option, "export snapshot" being among them. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Oct 24 15:21:04 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:21:04 +0200 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com>, <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> Message-ID: <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 19:40, John Dixon wrote: > Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit', > 'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps > there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to > be used in liveCode syntax'... Yes, many of the core dev team are looking forward to replacing: * color -> colour * hilite -> highlight * gray -> grey * program -> programme Spelling these keywords properly will be an important step forward in ensuring accessibility and comprehensibility for the LiveCode scripting language. It will greatly reduce the number of bugs and regressions in our releases, thanks to reducing the core team developers' typo rate. Peter :-) -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr Sat Oct 24 15:40:03 2015 From: francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Chaplais?=) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:40:03 +0200 Subject: Externals for Dummies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: wrong. LC does not have a multicore optimized solver for linear equations, the basis of numerical analysis. I want it. Fran?ois Le 24 oct. 2015 ? 20:37, hh a ?crit : > Probably you don't need an external because LC has everything available. > I made a simple stack in 2014 that is kind of an interface to Mathematica/Wolfram > (so you can use one copy of Mathematica locally as 'serving'). > Runs on Mac/Win/Linux/RaspberryPi. > > It is even fast enough on a RaspberryPi (Raspbian includes a free copy of Wolfram/Mathematica 10). Some people have a "Raspi cloud" serving ... > > The stack includes 10 Examples (from plots to producing a table of function values). > See http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=22183 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 24 16:04:58 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:04:58 -0500 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562BE46A.6040707@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/24/2015 1:51 PM, Richmond wrote: > as people are NOT computers, not vice-versa, I cannot see how an "Open > Language" > = with Human-like logic and endlessly extensible in a human-like fashion > is ever going to be possible. Funny you bring that up, I just read this article minutes ago: To quote: "Who needs to code when you can use visual building blocks or even plain English to describe intent? Advances in natural-language processing and conceptual modeling will remove the need for traditional coding from app development. Software development tools will soon understand what you mean versus what you say." So not everyone agrees with you. The remarks about natural English in the article make me think LC ought to be more prominent. > I've always had a sneaking suspicion that "someone" went 'off at the mouth' a bit during > the Kickstarter and promised things that, either, they had no intention of keeping, or promised > things that, really, they didn't realise would involve them in so many unseen complexities that > they would be, effectively, unrealisable. I know Mark Waddingham pretty well, and I've never heard him propose anything that he didn't already have a good idea how to accomplish. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 16:07:22 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 16:07:22 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> Message-ID: The Wayback Machine never forgets: http://web.archive.org/web/20130301041400/http://blog.runrev.com/blog/bid/265511/Open-Language (takes some time to load) This is the main thing I have been looking forward to for the past several years. The goal was to allow the addition of truly new syntax and functionality to the language. I really wanted this, and widgets is what it has turned into. Not that widgets aren't a good thing, but I'd really like to be able to use: repeat for each line L in someText with index i apply myFunction to X until the value converges apply (+1) to every item of myList where it mod 2 = 1 ...and many, many more. On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-10-24 19:40, John Dixon wrote: > >> Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit', >> 'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps >> there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to >> be used in liveCode syntax'... >> > > Yes, many of the core dev team are looking forward to replacing: > > * color -> colour > * hilite -> highlight > * gray -> grey > * program -> programme > > Spelling these keywords properly will be an important step forward in > ensuring accessibility and comprehensibility for the LiveCode scripting > language. It will greatly reduce the number of bugs and regressions in our > releases, thanks to reducing the core team developers' typo rate. > > Peter :-) > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 16:24:31 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 13:24:31 -0700 Subject: catching pasted text and forcing unicode Message-ID: There is not a circumstance in which I will need to use multi-byted. ASCII would be fine, but it is missing the section (?) symbol, and the occasional ? in a name. I do, however, have to deal with the mac/windows/unix character set split. Particularly, I need to watch for things being pasted in, both by users and in the development environment. I suppose the set of problematic characters is fairly small--section & paragraphs symbols, and curly quotes being the notable ones. Is there a civilized way to catch incoming text pasted into a field and cover it properly? Ideally, in a way that would catch that someone had copied from one of those idiotic web pages that were made with ms word and have windows characters, even though the person was using a mac? And once generated, my pdfs need to be able to print/view on a different platform. Should I be playing with htmlText to force this? When I'm generating a new form, I generally paste from the host pdf to label fields. I then have a script that tests the text for formatting, and saves that information. Could I do some testing here? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 16:25:47 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:25:47 +0300 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <3d5e9b222bfe1a914745992b40d7fa61@livecode.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> <3d5e9b222bfe1a914745992b40d7fa61@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562BE94B.5090705@gmail.com> On 24/10/15 22:10, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-10-24 18:53, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> 2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often >> incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing >> basic things like setting the rect of a button? > > To quote Gilbert & Sullivan: "Well, yes, that's the idea." > > Not too different from the status quo, though, is it? I can already > modify the bounding box of a button by setting its "left", "right", > "top", "bottom", "topLeft", "topRight", "bottomLeft", "bottomRight", > "rect", or "rectangle" pseudo-properties. Those make a lot of sense. But imagine the sort of other things people do: "The thingummy-bob over there" R. > > Some people believe that programming languages should be designed in > such a way that, for any given task, "There should be one - and > preferably only one - obvious way to do it." This is not the design > philosophy of LiveCode. That is clear: one should not, always, have to drive down the middle of the road. However, while it might be useful to drive in the left lane, the right lane and, occasionally, on the hard shoulder, when one starts to drive on the verge, or even in the adjacent field, things tend to go wrong. So "Open" is as "Open" does; rather like the difference between 'freedom' and 'unfettered freedom'. So, while the design philosophy of LiveCode may be that there may be several ways to achieve something, there do still have to be constraints. Richmond. > > Peter > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 16:27:42 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:27:42 +0300 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562BE9BE.8090907@gmail.com> On 24/10/15 22:21, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-10-24 19:40, John Dixon wrote: >> Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit', >> 'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps >> there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to >> be used in liveCode syntax'... > > Yes, many of the core dev team are looking forward to replacing: > > * color -> colour > * hilite -> highlight > * gray -> grey > * program -> programme > > Spelling these keywords properly will be an important step forward in > ensuring accessibility and comprehensibility for the LiveCode > scripting language. It will greatly reduce the number of bugs and > regressions in our releases, thanks to reducing the core team > developers' typo rate. > > Peter :-) > Ha, Ha: I take that is meant to be a joke: if non-American programmers cannot put up with the odd spot of American spelling one wonders how they'll manage anything else: that should be the very least of anyone's worries. R. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 16:29:09 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:29:09 +0300 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BE46A.6040707@hyperactivesw.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> <562BE46A.6040707@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <562BEA15.1050706@gmail.com> On 24/10/15 23:04, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/24/2015 1:51 PM, Richmond wrote: >> as people are NOT computers, not vice-versa, I cannot see how an "Open >> Language" >> = with Human-like logic and endlessly extensible in a human-like fashion >> is ever going to be possible. > > Funny you bring that up, I just read this article minutes ago: > > > > To quote: "Who needs to code when you can use visual building blocks > or even plain English to describe intent? Advances in natural-language > processing and conceptual modeling will remove the need for > traditional coding from app development. Software development tools > will soon understand what you mean versus what you say." > > So not everyone agrees with you. > > The remarks about natural English in the article make me think LC > ought to be more prominent. > >> I've always had a sneaking suspicion that "someone" went 'off at the >> mouth' a bit during >> the Kickstarter and promised things that, either, they had no >> intention of keeping, or promised >> things that, really, they didn't realise would involve them in so >> many unseen complexities that >> they would be, effectively, unrealisable. > > I know Mark Waddingham pretty well, and I've never heard him propose > anything that he didn't already have a good idea how to accomplish. I'm not entirely sure why you equate my "someone" with Mark Waddingham; who has quite adequately demonstrated to be "a right Captain Sensible" :) R. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 16:34:29 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 07:34:29 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BE94B.5090705@gmail.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> <3d5e9b222bfe1a914745992b40d7fa61@livecode.com> <562BE94B.5090705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <569A137E-CB0A-41CD-95C0-A79748AF6BC2@sweattechnologies.com> > On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:25 am, Richmond wrote: > > So, while the design philosophy of LiveCode may be that there may be several ways to achieve something, there do still have to be constraints. I expect there will be natural boundaries. Most syntax will still be defined by the core team. Some third party vendors will implement english like syntax for their stuff. Most folks just wanting to get the job done will continue with functions and commands. Some interesting syntax might be developed for fun but these are pluggable modules which aren?t delivered with the core product unless they are wanted there. Cheers Monte From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 16:43:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:43:02 +0300 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562BED56.3080706@gmail.com> On 24/10/15 23:07, Geoff Canyon wrote: > The Wayback Machine never forgets: > http://web.archive.org/web/20130301041400/http://blog.runrev.com/blog/bid/265511/Open-Language > (takes > some time to load) > > Thank you very much for fossicking that out! "The key piece of this project is a tailored parsing system that we?ve come up with." Has it already been "come up with" or is that some sort of anticipation? After all, this was written some two and a half years ago, and we have seen nothing subsequently. "One of LiveCode?s greatest strengths is its English-like programming language. The use of a natural language-like syntax gives it great expressivity and, as a result, in most cases code is compact yet eminently readable." This is very well put, yet, with the expansion of LiveCode beyond the boundaries of what we could call the "Hypercard/Metacard" set, a lot of that English-likeness has got lost. "Now with the problem of extensible syntax sorted" If so, where is it, or at the very least, some signs of its approach? Now, R. Gaskin and Co. are perfectly entitled to state that I am merrily stating, left-right-and-centre, that RunRev "don't care"; I don't feel that that is quite what I am doing: what I am trying to do is state that RunRev are not very good at keeping their user-base informed about certain things that the company has stated will be available post-Kickstarter, and, so far, don't seem to be. That is not a case of not "caring", but it might be a case of not communicating adequately. Richmond. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 24 16:47:29 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 13:47:29 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> On 10/24/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > * hilite -> highlight Actually I filed a bug report on that six years ago. http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8211 It got confirmed and ignored. I just submitted a pull request. Figured I might as well fix this myself. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 24 16:50:57 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 13:50:57 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <569A137E-CB0A-41CD-95C0-A79748AF6BC2@sweattechnologies.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> <3d5e9b222bfe1a914745992b40d7fa61@livecode.com> <562BE94B.5090705@gmail.com> <569A137E-CB0A-41CD-95C0-A79748AF6BC2@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <562BEF31.6030608@ahsoftware.net> On 10/24/2015 01:34 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > I expect there will be natural boundaries. Most syntax will still be defined by the core team. Some third party vendors will implement english like syntax for their stuff. Most folks just wanting to get the job done will continue with functions and commands. Some interesting syntax might be developed for fun but these are pluggable modules which aren?t delivered with the core product unless they are wanted there. I'm looking forward to etsay the opertypay otay omesay andomray aluevay -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 16:52:10 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 07:52:10 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> Message-ID: <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> > On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:07 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > repeat for each line L in someText with index i I can?t help wondering if open language will allow for new (or variations on existing) control structures. My impression is the intention is to allow for new command syntax only but I could be wrong. From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Oct 24 16:55:27 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 13:55:27 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <569A137E-CB0A-41CD-95C0-A79748AF6BC2@sweattechnologies.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> <3d5e9b222bfe1a914745992b40d7fa61@livecode.com> <562BE94B.5090705@gmail.com> <569A137E-CB0A-41CD-95C0-A79748AF6BC2@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> If you do get Open Language what will it do to the speed? They said LC8 would be good because it will make it easier for developers to write code in LC which needed to be and external before. Then after releasing it they said it is slower to use than a external written in C. I would prefer better lessons and examples to write externals if they are faster and the same goes for Open Language. JB > On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:25 am, Richmond wrote: >> >> So, while the design philosophy of LiveCode may be that there may be several ways to achieve something, there do still have to be constraints. > > I expect there will be natural boundaries. Most syntax will still be defined by the core team. Some third party vendors will implement english like syntax for their stuff. Most folks just wanting to get the job done will continue with functions and commands. Some interesting syntax might be developed for fun but these are pluggable modules which aren?t delivered with the core product unless they are wanted there. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 16:56:23 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 16:56:23 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: That would be disappointing. On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:07 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > > repeat for each line L in someText with index i > > I can?t help wondering if open language will allow for new (or variations > on existing) control structures. My impression is the intention is to allow > for new command syntax only but I could be wrong. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 24 16:58:40 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:58:40 -0500 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BEA15.1050706@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> <562BE46A.6040707@hyperactivesw.com> <562BEA15.1050706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562BF100.2070107@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/24/2015 3:29 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 24/10/15 23:04, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> I know Mark Waddingham pretty well, and I've never heard him propose >> anything that he didn't already have a good idea how to accomplish. > > I'm not entirely sure why you equate my "someone" with Mark Waddingham; > who has quite adequately demonstrated to be > "a right Captain Sensible" :) Because Open Language was his idea, presented at a conference some years ago. I didn't stop to think that not everyone knows that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 24 17:06:12 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 16:06:12 -0500 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <562BF2C4.4010804@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/24/2015 3:47 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/24/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > >> * hilite -> highlight > > Actually I filed a bug report on that six years ago. > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8211 > > It got confirmed and ignored. > I just submitted a pull request. > Figured I might as well fix this myself. > You must mean the derivatives; "highlight" has always been available. But "highlightedIcon" is not. Or was not. I won't use it of course, I always go for the shortest possible amount of typing. Even "blendlevel" annoys me because it's too many characters. Mark Waddingham once mentioned he didn't like the abbreviations (cd, fld, grp, bg) and wanted to take them out, and I threatened to put out a contract on him. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Oct 24 17:14:20 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:14:20 +0200 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BED56.3080706@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BED56.3080706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1ddbbe73ecd566f52e734824826652e9@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 22:43, Richmond wrote: > On 24/10/15 23:07, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> The Wayback Machine never forgets: >> http://web.archive.org/web/20130301041400/http://blog.runrev.com/blog/bid/265511/Open-Language >> (takes >> some time to load) >> >> > > Thank you very much for fossicking that out! > > "The key piece of this project is a tailored parsing system that we?ve > come up with." > > Has it already been "come up with" or is that some sort of > anticipation? The initial version of the system is already in use in LiveCode Builder. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 24 17:25:18 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 16:25:18 -0500 Subject: catching pasted text and forcing unicode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562BF73E.2090105@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/24/2015 3:24 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Is there a civilized way to catch incoming text pasted into a field and > cover it properly? I think the pasteKey message is what you want. Note that the IDE traps it, so you won't receive it there but it works in a standalone or when you suspend the development tools. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 17:25:32 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 14:25:32 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> References: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> JB wrote: > If you do get Open Language what will it do to the > speed? They said LC8 would be good because it > will make it easier for developers to write code in > LC which needed to be and external before. > > Then after releasing it they said it is slower to use > than a external written in C. > > I would prefer better lessons and examples to write > externals if they are faster and the same goes for > Open Language. That's a different but important part of the Builder language, the ability to call OS APIs. I've worked with OS APIs in Pascal, C, and two xTalks, Tookbook's OpenTalk scripting language which provides that built-in, and CompileIt for HyperTalk. The one thing I've learned from that is that the language you're using isn't all that important, because no matter what you're writing in the OS you're talking to expects C: it uses C data types and structures, provides tons of great sample source but all in C, and requires that you think like a C programmer, understanding and managing data in ways a good xTalk normally insulates from even having to think about - the difference between a pointer and a handle isn't interesting to most xTalkers, but can be essential in C. By the time you become fluent enough in C to understand OS APIs well enough to use them, you've already learned enough to write in it as well. I'm sure that part of Builder will be very interesting for some tasks, but if I could add to that wish list it would be to see the externals SDK made as easy as possible to work with, including examples for each of the supported platforms. Monte's done an amazing job showing off what the externals SDK can do for extending LC. It would be great to see more people jump on board with it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at livecode.org Sat Oct 24 17:32:44 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:32:44 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? Message-ID: What is open language? A purely descriptive contribution: 250 most frequent words of the discussion from R.G. over R.M to M.G. [TagCloud] http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25687 Unfinished [last post of use-list included: Sat Oct 24 22:52:10 CEST 2015] From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 17:42:51 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 08:42:51 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> Well it doesn?t necessarily mean you can?t implement the additional variable in repeat. It just means you would need to do so directly in the engine. Out of interest I just took a look ant it wouldn?t be that tricky to do and at the same time you could support a repeat index variable on all the repeat styles. Because of that I?d suggest calling it a counter rather than index as index could get confusing in repeat with. repeat for each line tLine in tText with counter tCounter repeat for 10 with counter tCounter repeat with tIndex = 1 to 10 step 2 with counter tCounter repeat while condition with counter tCounter repeat forever with counter tCounter Not sure if I missed anything Cheers Monte > On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:56 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > That would be disappointing. > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Monte Goulding >> wrote: > >> >>> On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:07 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>> >>> repeat for each line L in someText with index i >> >> I can?t help wondering if open language will allow for new (or variations >> on existing) control structures. My impression is the intention is to allow >> for new command syntax only but I could be wrong. From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Oct 24 17:43:53 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 14:43:53 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> References: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <54E1AE08-93FD-40DC-BDFE-A84355E6B6C0@pacifier.com> > On Oct 24, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > JB wrote: >> If you do get Open Language what will it do to the >> speed? They said LC8 would be good because it >> will make it easier for developers to write code in >> LC which needed to be and external before. >> >> Then after releasing it they said it is slower to use >> than a external written in C. >> >> I would prefer better lessons and examples to write >> externals if they are faster and the same goes for >> Open Language. > > That's a different but important part of the Builder language, the ability to call OS APIs. > > I've worked with OS APIs in Pascal, C, and two xTalks, Tookbook's OpenTalk scripting language which provides that built-in, and CompileIt for HyperTalk. > > The one thing I've learned from that is that the language you're using isn't all that important, because no matter what you're writing in the OS you're talking to expects C: it uses C data types and structures, provides tons of great sample source but all in C, and requires that you think like a C programmer, understanding and managing data in ways a good xTalk normally insulates from even having to think about - the difference between a pointer and a handle isn't interesting to most xTalkers, but can be essential in C. > > By the time you become fluent enough in C to understand OS APIs well enough to use them, you've already learned enough to write in it as well. > > I'm sure that part of Builder will be very interesting for some tasks, but if I could add to that wish list it would be to see the externals SDK made as easy as possible to work with, including examples for each of the supported platforms. > > Monte's done an amazing job showing off what the externals SDK can do for extending LC. It would be great to see more people jump on board with it. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > I fully agree with you. As for Monty I am not sure if you are talking about his externals for mobile apps. I do not have a mobile yet but when I get one I will definitely buy his externals. I do not expect him to release that code but are there other examples he has released? JB From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 18:02:52 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:02:52 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <54E1AE08-93FD-40DC-BDFE-A84355E6B6C0@pacifier.com> References: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> <54E1AE08-93FD-40DC-BDFE-A84355E6B6C0@pacifier.com> Message-ID: > On 25 Oct 2015, at 8:43 am, JB wrote: > > As for Monty I am not sure if you are talking about his > externals for mobile apps. I do not have a mobile yet > but when I get one I will definitely buy his externals. Yay, note that a number of my iOS externals are also available for OS X and I also have a couple of fully cross platform externals available. I?m looking forward to 64 bit OS X so I can release my apple maps external (mergMK) on OS X. The work is already done. > > I do not expect him to release that code but are there > other examples he has released? There?s a few FOSS licensed externals if you would like to check my github account: https://github.com/montegoulding?tab=repositories Cheers Monte From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 18:05:36 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:05:36 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Well it doesn?t necessarily mean you can?t implement the additional > variable in repeat. It just means you would need to do so directly in the > engine. Out of interest I just took a look ant it wouldn?t be that tricky > to do and at the same time you could support a repeat index variable on all > the repeat styles. Because of that I?d suggest calling it a counter rather > than index as index could get confusing in repeat with. > > repeat for each line tLine in tText with counter tCounter > repeat for 10 with counter tCounter > repeat with tIndex = 1 to 10 step 2 with counter tCounter > repeat while condition with counter tCounter > repeat forever with counter tCounter > > Not sure if I missed anything > > Cheers > > Monte > The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would be that: 1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something like this. 2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my "index" version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with that. (or both). 3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving critical mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine directly. gc From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Oct 24 18:14:55 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:14:55 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> <54E1AE08-93FD-40DC-BDFE-A84355E6B6C0@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <958C1953-8FEB-4D23-80F9-E252A6758B17@pacifier.com> > On Oct 24, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 25 Oct 2015, at 8:43 am, JB wrote: >> >> As for Monty I am not sure if you are talking about his >> externals for mobile apps. I do not have a mobile yet >> but when I get one I will definitely buy his externals. > > Yay, note that a number of my iOS externals are also available for OS X and I also have a couple of fully cross platform externals available. I?m looking forward to 64 bit OS X so I can release my apple maps external (mergMK) on OS X. The work is already done. >> >> I do not expect him to release that code but are there >> other examples he has released? > > There?s a few FOSS licensed externals if you would like to check my github account: > https://github.com/montegoulding?tab=repositories > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Thanks Monty! I will go to your github and check it out. Do you have a link for the OS X externals you are selling? JB From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 18:19:00 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:19:00 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> > On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:05 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would be > that: > > 1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something like > this. > 2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my "index" > version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with that. > (or both). > 3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving critical > mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine > directly. OK, well we can let Mark Waddingham comment on whether I?m right in that control structures are unlikely targets for open language or not. It seems quite unlikely to me as it?s significantly more complicated than commands. I?m not saying it?s not possible the ROI would be terrible. As in almost 0 return for a reasonably heavy investment? From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 18:24:23 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:24:23 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <958C1953-8FEB-4D23-80F9-E252A6758B17@pacifier.com> References: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> <54E1AE08-93FD-40DC-BDFE-A84355E6B6C0@pacifier.com> <958C1953-8FEB-4D23-80F9-E252A6758B17@pacifier.com> Message-ID: > On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:14 am, JB wrote: > > Do you have a link > for the OS X externals you are selling? Everything is at mergExt.com The externals available for OS X are: - mergJSON - mergAV - mergAWS - mergBLE - mergGoogle - mergNotify - mergBonjour (OX Build in next release) Cheers Monte From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Oct 24 18:30:01 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:30:01 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> <54E1AE08-93FD-40DC-BDFE-A84355E6B6C0@pacifier.com> <958C1953-8FEB-4D23-80F9-E252A6758B17@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <68691B8E-7308-4732-BDC3-C2208AFE0429@pacifier.com> > On Oct 24, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:14 am, JB wrote: >> >> Do you have a link >> for the OS X externals you are selling? > > Everything is at mergExt.com > > The externals available for OS X are: > - mergJSON > - mergAV > - mergAWS > - mergBLE > - mergGoogle > - mergNotify > - mergBonjour (OX Build in next release) > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Thanks, I will check it out. JB From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sat Oct 24 19:28:04 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:28:04 +0200 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive Message-ID: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> Hi, long time ago i created a program which creates a list of files of backup cds or dvds and stores that listings in a database with some additional information like cd name/number. So if the customer needs to know on which cd/dvd a needed fileis, the database can be searched. This worked fine a long time. But with time the customer used harddrives for the backups. So they imported now the file listing of harddrives. Even that worked fin. But now with bigger drives and more stuff stored on the drives my program is not able to import the file listing anymore if the number of files/folders exceed a special number. It just freezes. If i try to create a directory listing of such a drive in Livecode i get an recursion limit error telling me that the recursion limit of 400000 was reached. I tried to increase that limit, but i still get that error, but with the newly set value. I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html Is there a way to scan a complete drive with LC regardless how many folders and subfolder that drive contains without getting that recursion limit error? Regards, Matthias Matthias Rebbe Bramkampsieke 13 32312 L?bbecke Tel +49 5741 310000 +49 160 5504462 Fax: +49 5741 310002 eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 19:52:15 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 19:52:15 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:05 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > > The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would be > > that: > > > > 1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something like > > this. > > 2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my "index" > > version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with > that. > > (or both). > > 3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving critical > > mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine > > directly. > > OK, well we can let Mark Waddingham comment on whether I?m right in that > control structures are unlikely targets for open language or not. It seems > quite unlikely to me as it?s significantly more complicated than commands. > I?m not saying it?s not possible the ROI would be terrible. As in almost 0 > return for a reasonably heavy investment? You might be right that control structures aren't included in the spec. I disagree that the ROI would be terrible, not because I think it would be easy to implement, but because I think the reward could be so great. The fundamentals of xTalk haven't grown much in a long time, and I hope to see that change. I understand that others might disagree. gc From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 19:59:49 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 10:59:49 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5C51B436-A532-4CCF-B125-3FFBADD04CD9@sweattechnologies.com> Well I'd certainly like to see the cost benefit analysis on it ;-) Sent from my iPhone > On 25 Oct 2015, at 10:52 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > I think the reward could be so great. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Oct 24 21:17:54 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 02:17:54 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> On 2015-10-25 00:19, Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:05 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> >> The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would >> be >> that: >> >> 1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something >> like >> this. >> 2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my >> "index" >> version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with >> that. >> (or both). >> 3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving >> critical >> mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine >> directly. > > OK, well we can let Mark Waddingham comment on whether I?m right in > that control structures are unlikely targets for open language or not. > It seems quite unlikely to me as it?s significantly more complicated > than commands. I?m not saying it?s not possible the ROI would be > terrible. As in almost 0 return for a reasonably heavy investment? I can't speak for Mark, but from my point of view, Open Language without custom control structures would be woefully incomplete. For example, "with" blocks would be super awesome: with the defaultFolder as "/home/peter/foo/bar" -- Do things that might cause an error end with Syntax is purely demonstrative, but the idea is that no matter what happens inside the block (return, error, etc.) the defaultFolder would get restored to its original value. Far easier to get right than "try ... catch" for cleanup purposes. "Match" blocks would be really nice to have too. Also, I can think of lots of uses for custom control structures in making test suites easier to write. And about 10 other really neat applications. So yes, custom control structures are a really important part of Open Language from my perspective. You could make it far easier to write correct code. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Oct 24 20:32:05 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:32:05 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <562C2305.3090509@fourthworld.com> Matthias Rebbe wrote: > long time ago i created a program which creates a list of files of backup cds or dvds and stores that listings in a database with some additional information like cd name/number. > So if the customer needs to know on which cd/dvd a needed fileis, the database can be searched. This worked fine a long time. But with time the customer used harddrives for the backups. > So they imported now the file listing of harddrives. Even that worked fin. But now with bigger drives and more stuff stored on the drives my program is not able to import the file listing anymore if the number of files/folders exceed a special number. It just freezes. > > If i try to create a directory listing of such a drive in Livecode i get an recursion limit error telling me that the recursion limit of 400000 was reached. I tried to increase that limit, but i still get that error, but with the newly set value. > > I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html > > Is there a way to scan a complete drive with LC regardless how many folders and subfolder that drive contains without getting that recursion limit error? We had a couple discussions about this here a while back. The problem isn't recursion per se, since of course it's highly unlikely that any hard drive will have folders nested more than 400,000 deep. The recursion error is thrown when there's inadequate error checking on the "set the directory to..." line, so that the directory never changes and thus the routine sits in a loop working on the same directory over and over. If you check "the result" immediately after the "set the directory..." line and skip when the result is not empty I think you'll find the rest of you code will work well on just about any drive you'll encounter. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From alex at tweedly.net Sat Oct 24 20:33:01 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:33:01 +0100 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <562C233D.1080702@tweedly.net> Are you sure you are actually hitting a recursion limit ? Another (perhaps more likely) problem is that you are hitting a protected directory, or one which you cannot access (e.g. because of strange character in name). I would (at a minimum) put in a check that you have moved to the folder: on directoryWalk whatFolder --put whatFolder --exit to top set the itemDel to "/" set the directory to whatFolder if the directory <> whatFolder then -- give some error somewhere exit directoryWalk end if put the files into temp If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some time ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up) -- Alex. On 25/10/2015 00:28, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D wrote: > Hi, > > long time ago i created a program which creates a list of files of backup cds or dvds and stores that listings in a database with some additional information like cd name/number. > So if the customer needs to know on which cd/dvd a needed fileis, the database can be searched. This worked fine a long time. But with time the customer used harddrives for the backups. > So they imported now the file listing of harddrives. Even that worked fin. But now with bigger drives and more stuff stored on the drives my program is not able to import the file listing anymore if the number of files/folders exceed a special number. It just freezes. > > If i try to create a directory listing of such a drive in Livecode i get an recursion limit error telling me that the recursion limit of 400000 was reached. I tried to increase that limit, but i still get that error, but with the newly set value. > > I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html > > Is there a way to scan a complete drive with LC regardless how many folders and subfolder that drive contains without getting that recursion limit error? > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > > > Matthias Rebbe > Bramkampsieke 13 > 32312 L?bbecke > Tel +49 5741 310000 > +49 160 5504462 > Fax: +49 5741 310002 > eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > > BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 20:46:38 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:46:38 -0700 Subject: parentheses within string break value() Message-ID: I am finding that parentheses within strings break value() put value ("Abc" & 45 & "123(def)") produces Script compile error: Error description: local: not a valid variable or constant name If I escape it as put value ("Abc" & 45 & "123\(def\)") it produces Abc45123 I don't think that either of these is correct, or am I missing something? I am trying to assemble strings which have variable names using custom properties for using in database queries, such as "SELECT foo FROM " & tableName & " WHERE bar > 7;" and in my learned paranoia, I want to wrap each condition with parentheses when I have more than one (I got tired of remembering precedence rules for each language, and which ones are screwy, and . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 20:48:01 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:48:01 -0700 Subject: catching pasted text and forcing unicode In-Reply-To: <562BF73E.2090105@hyperactivesw.com> References: <562BF73E.2090105@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I think the pasteKey message is what you want. Note that the IDE traps it, > so you won't receive it there but it works in a standalone or when you > suspend the development tools. That would let me trap it, and I'm resigned to that (just another button, I suppose). But is there any sane way to deal with the text? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Oct 24 20:58:14 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:58:14 -0700 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is 123 a function? If yes, I believe you need to remove the quotes surrounding it. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:46 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > I am finding that parentheses within strings break value() > > put value ("Abc" & 45 & "123(def)") > > > produces > > > Script compile error: > > Error description: local: not a valid variable or constant name > > > If I escape it as > > put value ("Abc" & 45 & "123\(def\)") > > > it produces > > Abc45123 > > I don't think that either of these is correct, or am I missing something? > > I am trying to assemble strings which have variable names using custom > properties for using in database queries, such as > > "SELECT foo FROM " & tableName & " WHERE bar > 7;" > > > and in my learned paranoia, I want to wrap each condition with parentheses > when I have more than one (I got tired of remembering precedence rules for > each language, and which ones are screwy, and . . .) > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Oct 24 21:17:38 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 12:17:38 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1EE46F1D-DE92-4DC8-AD2C-EBA0169E0507@sweattechnologies.com> Well you've got a lot more experience with the engine and open language plans than me so if you say it's feasible and the cost benefit is sufficient to apply the resources rather than just working on the control structures in the engine then who am I to argue. Are the LCB control structures defined in LCB? If so I'll take a look and try implementing switch. Sent from my iPhone > On 25 Oct 2015, at 12:17 pm, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > So yes, custom control structures are a really important part of Open Language from my perspective. You could make it far easier to write correct code. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 24 21:24:01 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:24:01 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BF2C4.4010804@hyperactivesw.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <562BF2C4.4010804@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <562C2F31.4030103@ahsoftware.net> On 10/24/2015 02:06 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > You must mean the derivatives; "highlight" has always been available. > But "highlightedIcon" is not. Or was not. Yeah, that was the whole problem - trying to remember where it was available and where not. Now it'll be consistent. I didn't even realize dehilite was a word in the dictionary. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Oct 24 23:12:46 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:12:46 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <562C233D.1080702@tweedly.net> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562C233D.1080702@tweedly.net> Message-ID: > On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > > If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some time ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up) > > -- Alex. I would like a copy of that if you dig one up. JB From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Sun Oct 25 01:32:46 2015 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 22:32:46 -0700 Subject: Print stack as PDF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: > - Charles Reich, The Greening of America > _______________________________________________ > This is so spooky. At this very moment, I was passing along the email of Charles Reich to a crew that's working on a new GD documentary. Charles did a noted interview with Jerry Garcia for rolling stone at Jerry's house in 1972 and I was involved in 'mastering' the 3 hours of interviews for intelligibility at my home studio in Sausalito. I copied back on to a cassette for Charles back then, kept the work tape for 40 years, and digitized it recently. sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words From brahma at hindu.org Sun Oct 25 01:44:50 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 05:44:50 +0000 Subject: Keep Selection Focus When Switching to Substack In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: 7.1 I am definitely losing my selection on touching the palette stack BR ( from my mobile ) On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 12:14 AM -0700, "Paul Hibbert" > wrote: On Oct 23, 2015, at 19:51, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > I think I asked this before, > > but? is there a way to keep the selection when switching to a substack that is set to palette? > > The goal is to have buttons that operate on selected text, but in a separate stack. > > Brahmanathaswami > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Which LC version on which platform? I just tried LC 7 & 8 and it seemed to work OK, but in LC5.5.5 the focus was lost on switching to a palette stack. Maybe as insurance you could put the selectedChunk into a global or custom property on suspendStack. Paul _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Oct 25 02:05:56 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:05:56 -0500 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562C2F31.4030103@ahsoftware.net> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <562BF2C4.4010804@hyperactivesw.com> <562C2F31.4030103@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <562C7144.1030706@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/24/2015 8:24 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > I didn't even realize dehilite was a word in the dictionary. Me either. It must be a typo: set de hilite of btn 1 -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Oct 25 02:15:07 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:15:07 -0500 Subject: catching pasted text and forcing unicode In-Reply-To: References: <562BF73E.2090105@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <562C736B.90501@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/24/2015 7:48 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:25 PM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> I think the pasteKey message is what you want. Note that the IDE traps it, >> so you won't receive it there but it works in a standalone or when you >> suspend the development tools. > > > That would let me trap it, and I'm resigned to that (just another button, I > suppose). But is there any sane way to deal with the text? You wouldn't necessarily need a button, pasteKey is a message. Grab the clipboardData and process it. If you're in LC 7.x try textDecode, in previous versions we used this, which usually works with Word text: function utf8decode pString return unidecode(uniencode(pString,"UTF8")) end utf8decode So something like this either in the field script or in the message path: on pasteKey get the clipboardData put utf8decode(it) into fld end pasteKey -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 03:35:25 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:35:25 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562BF100.2070107@hyperactivesw.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> <562BE46A.6040707@hyperactivesw.com> <562BEA15.1050706@gmail.com> <562BF100.2070107@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <562C863D.9060708@gmail.com> On 24/10/15 23:58, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/24/2015 3:29 PM, Richmond wrote: >> On 24/10/15 23:04, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >>> I know Mark Waddingham pretty well, and I've never heard him propose >>> anything that he didn't already have a good idea how to accomplish. >> >> I'm not entirely sure why you equate my "someone" with Mark Waddingham; >> who has quite adequately demonstrated to be >> "a right Captain Sensible" :) > > Because Open Language was his idea, presented at a conference some > years ago. I didn't stop to think that not everyone knows that. > Well, at least one person didn't :/ My crit. (which is my usual crit. about the Kickstarter) was aimed at a feeling that RunRev were so enthusiastic about the Kickstarter they merrily 'said' all sorts of things, that later, in "the cool light of reason" may have been seen to be a bit unwise, or should have been stated in more measured terms. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 03:44:45 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:44:45 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562C7144.1030706@hyperactivesw.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <562BF2C4.4010804@hyperactivesw.com> <562C2F31.4030103@ahsoftware.net> <562C7144.1030706@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <562C886D.3090701@gmail.com> On 25/10/15 08:05, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/24/2015 8:24 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> >> >> I didn't even realize dehilite was a word in the dictionary. > > Me either. It must be a typo: > > set de hilite of btn 1 > Wo? iz oepin lingwidge ennyway? onn mooseOp pit "Wo'z oepin lingwidge" in feeld "Wo?" ov card "De" of stak "Lingwidge" end mooseOp There has to be clearly defined parameters [c.f. 'problem' about American versus British English], and as every single English speaker (whether native speaker or not) speaks their own ideolect affected by where they were born, brought up ('raised'), worked, and so on, if everyone starts tinkering with the LiveCode language with their individual prejudices there will be no "Open Language", there will just be something where no-one will have an earthly at understanding someone else's code. Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Oct 25 04:14:09 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 08:14:09 +0000 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1EE46F1D-DE92-4DC8-AD2C-EBA0169E0507@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> <1EE46F1D-DE92-4DC8-AD2C-EBA0169E0507@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <7213ff94358335581ec39fd3f7ba5bbf@livecode.com> On 2015-10-25 01:17, Monte Goulding wrote: > Well you've got a lot more experience with the engine and open > language plans than me so if you say it's feasible and the cost > benefit is sufficient to apply the resources rather than just working > on the control structures in the engine then who am I to argue. Are > the LCB control structures defined in LCB? If so I'll take a look and > try implementing switch. Hi Monte, Unfortunately LiveCode Builder doesn't let you define custom block syntax yet. I'm not sure how that would work, exactly. It might require LiveCode Builder syntax definitions to become more macro-like. I'm sure Mark Waddingham is sitting on a big pile of good ideas on that front! :-) Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 25 04:32:56 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:32:56 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <7213ff94358335581ec39fd3f7ba5bbf@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> <1EE46F1D-DE92-4DC8-AD2C-EBA0169E0507@sweattechnologies.com> <7213ff94358335581ec39fd3f7ba5bbf@livecode.com> Message-ID: <178830B0-58BB-4181-BFEB-EE57AF1C5B23@sweattechnologies.com> Ok, I went looking and ended up trying to find something related to control structures in the gentle stuff... Whew! I think I'd need to spend a couple of weeks looking at that just to work out what's going on... Sent from my iPhone > On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:14 pm, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > Unfortunately LiveCode Builder doesn't let you define custom block syntax yet. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Oct 25 04:42:54 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 08:42:54 +0000 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <178830B0-58BB-4181-BFEB-EE57AF1C5B23@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> <1EE46F1D-DE92-4DC8-AD2C-EBA0169E0507@sweattechnologies.com> <7213ff94358335581ec39fd3f7ba5bbf@livecode.com> <178830B0-58BB-4181-BFEB-EE57AF1C5B23@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-25 08:32, Monte Goulding wrote: > Ok, I went looking and ended up trying to find something related to > control structures in the gentle stuff... > Whew! I think I'd need to spend a couple of weeks looking at that just > to work out what's going on... I find this manual extremely valuable when working on the current LiveCode Builder compiler: http://gentle.compilertools.net/book/index.html It did indeed take me a couple of weeks to get my head around, but that was with lots of help from Mark Waddingham... Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 25 05:01:25 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 20:01:25 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> <1EE46F1D-DE92-4DC8-AD2C-EBA0169E0507@sweattechnologies.com> <7213ff94358335581ec39fd3f7ba5bbf@livecode.com> <178830B0-58BB-4181-BFEB-EE57AF1C5B23@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Aha... Perhaps I should have said couple of months ;-) Sent from my iPhone > On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:42 pm, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > It did indeed take me a couple of weeks to get my head around, but that was with lots of help from Mark Waddingham... From livfoss at mac.com Sun Oct 25 07:06:36 2015 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 12:06:36 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability Message-ID: The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the use list? Graham From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 09:51:39 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:51:39 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> <18534f818f124956599da11cdc9ad684@livecode.com> Message-ID: Agreed, definitely. gc > On Oct 24, 2015, at 9:17 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > I can't speak for Mark, but from my point of view, Open Language without custom control structures would be woefully incomplete. From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 09:56:18 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:56:18 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562C886D.3090701@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <562BF2C4.4010804@hyperactivesw.com> <562C2F31.4030103@ahsoftware.net> <562C7144.1030706@hyperactivesw.com> <562C886D.3090701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <70616C86-998C-4E6C-B97D-59ADC07899B4@gmail.com> But that's true now. *Every* time I look at someone else's code I have to spend time figuring out their way of doing things. I'm sure this is true whenever someone looks at my code as well. There can be clearer and less clear code, and obviously the situation could be made worse by bad extensions, but bad extensions wouldn't survive. gc > On Oct 25, 2015, at 3:44 AM, Richmond wrote: > > there will just be something where no-one will have an earthly at understanding someone else's > code. From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 09:59:06 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:59:06 -0400 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> As someone who *really* wants open language, I completely agree with this. gc > On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: > > The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the use list? > > Graham From hh at livecode.org Sun Oct 25 10:14:37 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 15:14:37 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability Message-ID: > Graham Samuel wrote: > The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the use list? They do take priority. Look at the output. Especially PeterBrett with HTML5, where he also has to be at the top of new internet wording/language. By coding only he is not challenged ("er ist unterfordert" in german words). And honestly, RichmondMatth demonstrates here once again his wonderful treasury of words, he should write a monthly feuilleton "Around LiveCode", with annotations by MarkWieder (I love his impish humour). There were a lot of really good arguments in this discussion, we need time to think about it. Perhaps MarkWadd and the team should think from time to time about a basic set of words and phrasing options oriented on (the idea of) Ogden's Basic English? Currently commandNames+functionNames+constantNames+propertyNames add up to over thousand words, Ogden's first list had 800 words. Open language doesn't mean to only to add words to the basic set of words, one could also start with diminishing to #codeEssentials and add to that. No problems will arise, there will be a translator to the #codeEssentials, just as there is one from English to Ogden's Basic English. From hh at livecode.org Sun Oct 25 10:35:20 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 15:35:20 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability Message-ID: "RichmondMatth" should read "RichmondMath". Sorry Richmond, that was a 'Freundian slip' ;-) From livfoss at mac.com Sun Oct 25 11:07:35 2015 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:07:35 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0304B186-BE60-47BA-ABB9-2287F7C918BD@mac.com> I **am** looking at the output. I love LiveCode, but there is more than one version current, there are many bugs, there are many deficiencies in the documentation... What would your advice be to a fairly non-technical person plunging into the LiveCode pool today for the first time and not wanting his or her ankles nibbled off by unexpected piranhas? And for that person's chosen platform, where would you tell them to look for advice on deployment? Graham PS 1 - The rest of your text belongs in the 'Open Language' discussion, IMHO. 2 - When I describe my imaginary newbie as 'non-technical', I mean not much used to programming, but almost certainly highly expert in their chosen field and looking to LiveCode as the shortest route to some necessary computational assistance. Sent from my iPad On 25 Oct 2015, at 15:14, hh wrote: >> Graham Samuel wrote: >> The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the use list? > > They do take priority. Look at the output. Especially PeterBrett with HTML5, where he also has to be at the top of new internet wording/language. By coding only he is not challenged ("er ist unterfordert" in german words). From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 11:19:20 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 08:19:20 -0700 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Is 123 a function? If yes, I believe you need to remove the quotes > surrounding it. > Just some text. I'm trying to concatenated strings, but livecode is looking at punctuation inside of the quoted literal. That was a simplified version; the actual is something like "SELECT uniqDNA FROM " & dhtbl_dna & " WHERE (cname||cadr NOT NULL) AND (chrType <> 'K');" where dhtbl_dna holds a table name and the rest are *supposed* to be string literals -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From kevin at livecode.com Sun Oct 25 11:45:23 2015 From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 15:45:23 +0000 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to be fully risen before we add icing. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps On 25/10/2015 13:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon" wrote: >As someone who *really* wants open language, I completely agree with >this. > >gc > >> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: >> >> The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may >>well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the >>actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on >>all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking >>about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the >>use list? >> >> Graham > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 11:46:51 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 11:46:51 -0400 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F1289C0-7A33-47C5-A82E-BB9CDF18062A@gmail.com> Is it cheesecake? > On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:45 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: > > Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to > be fully risen before we add icing. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > > > On 25/10/2015 13:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon" > > wrote: > >> As someone who *really* wants open language, I completely agree with >> this. >> >> gc >> >>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: >>> >>> The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may >>> well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the >>> actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on >>> all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking >>> about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the >>> use list? >>> >>> Graham >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 25 11:56:08 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 08:56:08 -0700 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562CFB98.4080203@ahsoftware.net> On 10/25/2015 08:45 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: > Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to > be fully risen before we add icing. Cake! They told me there would be cake! -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mkoob at rogers.com Sun Oct 25 11:57:03 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 08:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <3F1289C0-7A33-47C5-A82E-BB9CDF18062A@gmail.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <3F1289C0-7A33-47C5-A82E-BB9CDF18062A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1445788623827-4697985.post@n4.nabble.com> Someone will be really cheesed off if RunRev has now made a promise of cake with icing and it is not delivered or delivered without icing. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-Language-and-stability-tp4697974p4697985.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 12:19:54 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:19:54 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <70616C86-998C-4E6C-B97D-59ADC07899B4@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <562BF2C4.4010804@hyperactivesw.com> <562C2F31.4030103@ahsoftware.net> <562C7144.1030706@hyperactivesw.com> <562C886D.3090701@gmail.com> <70616C86-998C-4E6C-B97D-59ADC07899B4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562D012A.9050705@gmail.com> On 25/10/15 15:56, Geoff Canyon wrote: > But that's true now. *Every* time I look at someone else's code I have to spend time figuring out their way of doing things. Very true indeed. When I was at the "University" of Abertay there was a lecturer (who was, supposedly, teaching us Visual Basic 5 - but she knew less than most of the students) who told us we have to annotate our code "in case you are hit by a bus": so every 2 or 3 lines of code she had us write things like this: --this moves the value in field "F1" to "F2" and --this is where the value of amortizement of second-hand cars is calculated Of course this made any creativity re coding we might have had curl up and die. I suppose she was right; one should do that . . . but that's a bit like the 50 year-old doctor who tells undergraduate students that getting smashed out of their boxes is bad for them . . . Hey, we were all thundering round to the nearest bar like a herd of half-starved bison straight after her "lab sessions" ! > I'm sure this is true whenever someone looks at my code as well. There can be clearer and less clear code, That's very true; but whether it being nearer to a 'natural language' (e.g. English) or not makes it any clearer isn't immediately obvious. I've just trawled through a load of old printouts of some stuff I did with FORTRAN IV in 1976 that my Mum had hidden away as drawer liners in a chest: I didn't really have much problem understanding what they were trying to do even after 40 years and having almost totally forgotten FORTRAN. Nobody can say that FORTRAN is like English. I was looking inside a "teach yer-sel C++" book the other day, and I hadn't an earthly: but not, I suspect, because it is written in a way that looks nothing whatsoever like English, but simply because I have never learnt C++. > and obviously the situation could be made worse by bad extensions, but bad extensions wouldn't survive. Well, they will if, despite being written in obscurantist code they do what they are meant to do. > > gc > > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 12:21:20 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:21:20 +0200 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562D0180.5080509@gmail.com> On 25/10/15 16:35, hh wrote: > "RichmondMatth" should read "RichmondMath". > > Sorry Richmond, that was a 'Freundian slip' ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > Ha, Ha: well-said that 'man'. R. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 12:23:11 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:23:11 +0200 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> On 25/10/15 17:45, Kevin Miller wrote: > Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to > be fully risen before we add icing. Aah: super, at last; but "by Gum" it takes a lot of 'heavy-lifting' to get this sort of definite statement. Love, Richmond. P.S. What's the cherry, then? > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > > > On 25/10/2015 13:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon" > > wrote: > >> As someone who *really* wants open language, I completely agree with >> this. >> >> gc >> >>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: >>> >>> The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may >>> well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the >>> actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on >>> all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking >>> about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the >>> use list? >>> >>> Graham >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 12:24:18 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:24:18 +0200 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <1445788623827-4697985.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <3F1289C0-7A33-47C5-A82E-BB9CDF18062A@gmail.com> <1445788623827-4697985.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <562D0232.5060902@gmail.com> On 25/10/15 17:57, Martin Koob wrote: > Someone will be really cheesed off if RunRev has now made a promise of cake > with icing and it is not delivered or delivered without icing. > > Martin > > > Seedcake doesn't have icing: only things that get stuck between your teeth . . . R. From sundown at pacifier.com Sun Oct 25 12:49:23 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:49:23 -0700 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7725091D-5331-4041-88FC-972731B10DD6@pacifier.com> > On Oct 25, 2015, at 8:45 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: > > Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to > be fully risen before we add icing. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps You should probably give it a little time to cool off too, because I put the icing on too soon once and it just melted. JB From kevin at runrev.com Sun Oct 25 12:59:33 2015 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:59:33 +0000 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> We did not promise a cherry. We are not going to promise a cherry. No cherry is planned. We will not be held accountable for non-delivery of said item. > On 25 Oct 2015, at 16:23, Richmond wrote: > >> On 25/10/15 17:45, Kevin Miller wrote: >> Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to >> be fully risen before we add icing. > > Aah: super, at last; but "by Gum" it takes a lot of 'heavy-lifting' to get this sort of definite statement. > > Love, Richmond. > > P.S. What's the cherry, then? > >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Kevin >> >> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> >> >> >> >> On 25/10/2015 13:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon" >> >> wrote: >> >>> As someone who *really* wants open language, I completely agree with >>> this. >>> >>> gc >>> >>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: >>>> >>>> The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may >>>> well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the >>>> actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on >>>> all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking >>>> about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the >>>> use list? >>>> >>>> Graham >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 13:08:24 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:08:24 +0200 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> Message-ID: <562D0C88.5000006@gmail.com> On 25/10/15 18:59, Kevin Miller wrote: > We did not promise a cherry. We are not going to promise a cherry. No cherry is planned. We will not be held accountable for non-delivery of said item. Now, that's odd: I'm sure the word "cherry" occurred somewhere on a web-page that has somehow, subsequently been deleted . . . . Richmond. > >> On 25 Oct 2015, at 16:23, Richmond wrote: >> >>> On 25/10/15 17:45, Kevin Miller wrote: >>> Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to >>> be fully risen before we add icing. >> Aah: super, at last; but "by Gum" it takes a lot of 'heavy-lifting' to get this sort of definite statement. >> >> Love, Richmond. >> >> P.S. What's the cherry, then? >> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 25/10/2015 13:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> As someone who *really* wants open language, I completely agree with >>>> this. >>>> >>>> gc >>>> >>>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may >>>>> well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the >>>>> actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on >>>>> all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking >>>>> about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the >>>>> use list? >>>>> >>>>> Graham >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 25 13:10:57 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 10:10:57 -0700 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> Message-ID: <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> On 10/25/2015 09:59 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: > We did not promise a cherry. We are not going to promise a cherry. No cherry is planned. We will not be held accountable for non-delivery of said item. Can we crowd-source funding for a cherry? Who's with me on this? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 13:32:36 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:32:36 +0200 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <562D1234.4000505@gmail.com> On 25/10/15 19:10, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/25/2015 09:59 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: >> We did not promise a cherry. We are not going to promise a cherry. No >> cherry is planned. We will not be held accountable for non-delivery >> of said item. > > Can we crowd-source funding for a cherry? > Who's with me on this? > +1 Richmond. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Oct 25 15:24:27 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 14:24:27 -0500 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/25/2015 12:10 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/25/2015 09:59 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: >> We did not promise a cherry. We are not going to promise a cherry. No >> cherry is planned. We will not be held accountable for non-delivery of >> said item. > > Can we crowd-source funding for a cherry? > Who's with me on this? > Make your own cherry with LCB and give the first couple of versions away for free. Then somewhere just after version 3 you could sell a more expensive chocolate-covered version and call it Cherry Pi. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 25 15:29:36 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 06:29:36 +1100 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <4B0BE844-23CB-4D86-B2D6-19C44555CC40@sweattechnologies.com> > On 26 Oct 2015, at 4:10 am, Mark Wieder wrote: > > Can we crowd-source funding for a cherry? > Who's with me on this? I?m happy to donate cherries from our cherry tree but you will need to crowd fund for the shipping from Tasmania to Edinburgh and to cover the costs of cherry - cake integration. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Oct 25 15:37:14 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 20:37:14 +0100 Subject: How can a button not have properties? In-Reply-To: References: <562AA201.9070501@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <562D2F6A.10407@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Ali, Perhaps it would be possible to add a few lines to the parser, which would make it possible to run syntax like put (the cSomeProperty of this card)["some index"] into myVar The parentheses would indicate that additional parsing is necessary, while nothing would need to happen without parentheses. I.e. any property in parentheses should also be available as an array, but a property that is not in parentheses stays a property as in the current situation. Another option would be to create an additional array() function, which works either like an in-line split or as a way to convert a property to an array: put array(the cSomeProperty of this card)["some index"] into myVar put array("a,b,c,d,e,f",comma,"")[1] into myVar --> myVar = a On the other hand, we still have the customProperties and customPropertySet properties, which allow you to do exactly the same, although the notation is different and I believe they don't allow multidimensional arrays. on mouseUp put 1 into myData["cProp1"] put 2 into myData["cProp2"] set the customProperties["someProp"] of me to myData set the customPropertySet of me to "someProp" put the cProp2 of me end mouseUp Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 10/23/2015 om 23:24 schreef Ali Lloyd: > I wonder if this is something we can fix. At the moment "the keys" is > hard-coded to allow the drag/clipboard data properties as source arrays. > > There's probably a parsing ambiguity involved in having an object property > source that is not currently obvious to me. > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 10:15 PM Ali Lloyd wrote: > >> Indeed, or you can force evaluation to an array using brackets. >> >> put the keys of (the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd 1 of >> stack "old_cp") >> >> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 10:09 PM Mark Schonewille < >> m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Actually, a property isn't an array. You have to put the properties >>> property into a variable to make it an array. >>> >>> Mark Schonewille >>> http://economy-x-talk.com >>> >>> Buy the most extensive book on the >>> LiveCode language: >>> http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com >>> >>> Op 10/23/2015 om 23:07 schreef Dr. Hawkins: >>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >>>> >>>>> The properties property is an array so a simple put will not display >>>>> anything. >>>>> >>>> Yes, but >>>> >>>> put the keys of the properties of btn "File" of grp "mcp_menu" of cd >>> 1 of >>>> stack "old_cp" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> also comes up empty. >>>> >>>> I found this when setting the properties of one button to that of >>> another; >>>> a line of code that got used for a year or so on every single version >>>> change. It bombs out of the script with only an error in the message >>> box. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at livecode.org Sun Oct 25 15:40:28 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 20:40:28 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability Message-ID: <41EB1691-0E3B-43FE-A440-0A940D604F9F@livecode.org> > Mark Wieder wrote: > Can we crowd-source funding for a cherry? > Who's with me on this? __.--~~.,-.__ `~-._.-(`-.__`-. \ `~~` .--./ \ /# \ \.--. \ / /# \ '--' \ / '--' ....................................?I???II??II????II?I????I?????I????????????+. 888.....888.O888.....8888.8888888 ..??I??......??I?......?II.......I?+......III. 888.....888. 888?....888..8888888 .????.........?..........?.........+.......?I. 888.....888...888 ..888...888......??I....????+I....????=......I??,......??I???: 888.....888...8888 8888...888888...???...???????...??????......I???.........???? 888.....888....888~888....888888...I??...I????I...=??????......????........????+ 888.....888.....88888 ....888......???... ???I....I.I??I.......???.......III?II. 8888888.888.....=888D.....8888888 .+???..........I.........I........,+......~??. 8888888 888..... 888......8888888...?????I....~I????....=??I......I?I+......???. ....................................????????????????????????????????????????I?,. ..........................................??II.................................. .........................................=?? ................................... ................................................................................ From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 15:56:33 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 15:56:33 -0400 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <41EB1691-0E3B-43FE-A440-0A940D604F9F@livecode.org> References: <41EB1691-0E3B-43FE-A440-0A940D604F9F@livecode.org> Message-ID: <4794F833-7020-4C94-9593-95CE2EFFAED6@gmail.com> Makes more sense in Monaco: __.--~~.,-.__ `~-._.-(`-.__`-. \ `~~` .--./ \ /# \ \.--. \ / /# \ '--' \ / '--' ....................................?I???II??II????II?I????I?????I????????????+. 888.....888.O888.....8888.8888888 ..??I??......??I?......?II.......I?+......III. 888.....888. 888?....888..8888888 .????.........?..........?.........+.......?I. 888.....888...888 ..888...888......??I....????+I....????=......I??,......??I???: 888.....888...8888 8888...888888...???...???????...??????......I???.........???? 888.....888....888~888....888888...I??...I????I...=??????......????........????+ 888.....888.....88888 ....888......???... ???I....I.I??I.......???.......III?II. 8888888.888.....=888D.....8888888 .+???..........I.........I........,+......~??. 8888888 888..... 888......8888888...?????I....~I????....=??I......I?I+......???. ....................................????????????????????????????????????????I?,. ..........................................??II.................................. .........................................=?? ................................... ??????????????????????????.. > On Oct 25, 2015, at 3:40 PM, hh wrote: > >> Mark Wieder wrote: >> Can we crowd-source funding for a cherry? >> Who's with me on this? > > __.--~~.,-.__ > `~-._.-(`-.__`-. > \ `~~` > .--./ \ > /# \ \.--. > \ / /# \ > '--' \ / > '--' > > ....................................?I???II??II????II?I????I?????I????????????+. > 888.....888.O888.....8888.8888888 ..??I??......??I?......?II.......I?+......III. > 888.....888. 888?....888..8888888 .????.........?..........?.........+.......?I. > 888.....888...888 ..888...888......??I....????+I....????=......I??,......??I???: > 888.....888...8888 8888...888888...???...???????...??????......I???.........???? > 888.....888....888~888....888888...I??...I????I...=??????......????........????+ > 888.....888.....88888 ....888......???... ???I....I.I??I.......???.......III?II. > 8888888.888.....=888D.....8888888 .+???..........I.........I........,+......~??. > 8888888 888..... 888......8888888...?????I....~I????....=??I......I?I+......???. > ....................................????????????????????????????????????????I?,. > ..........................................??II.................................. > .........................................=?? ................................... > ................................................................................ > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 16:35:15 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 22:35:15 +0200 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <4794F833-7020-4C94-9593-95CE2EFFAED6@gmail.com> References: <41EB1691-0E3B-43FE-A440-0A940D604F9F@livecode.org> <4794F833-7020-4C94-9593-95CE2EFFAED6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562D3D03.4050607@gmail.com> On 25/10/15 21:56, Colin Holgate wrote: > Makes more sense in Monaco: > > __.--~~.,-.__ > `~-._.-(`-.__`-. > \ `~~` > .--./ \ > /# \ \.--. > \ / /# \ > '--' \ / > '--' > > ....................................?I???II??II????II?I????I?????I????????????+. > 888.....888.O888.....8888.8888888 ..??I??......??I?......?II.......I?+......III. > 888.....888. 888?....888..8888888 .????.........?..........?.........+.......?I. > 888.....888...888 ..888...888......??I....????+I....????=......I??,......??I???: > 888.....888...8888 8888...888888...???...???????...??????......I???.........???? > 888.....888....888~888....888888...I??...I????I...=??????......????........????+ > 888.....888.....88888 ....888......???... ???I....I.I??I.......???.......III?II. > 8888888.888.....=888D.....8888888 .+???..........I.........I........,+......~??. > 8888888 888..... 888......8888888...?????I....~I????....=??I......I?I+......???. > ....................................????????????????????????????????????????I?,. > ..........................................??II.................................. > .........................................=?? ................................... > ??????????????????????????.. > > >> On Oct 25, 2015, at 3:40 PM, hh wrote: >> >>> Mark Wieder wrote: >>> Can we crowd-source funding for a cherry? >>> Who's with me on this? >> __.--~~.,-.__ >> `~-._.-(`-.__`-. >> \ `~~` >> .--./ \ >> /# \ \.--. >> \ / /# \ >> '--' \ / >> '--' >> >> ....................................?I???II??II????II?I????I?????I????????????+. >> 888.....888.O888.....8888.8888888 ..??I??......??I?......?II.......I?+......III. >> 888.....888. 888?....888..8888888 .????.........?..........?.........+.......?I. >> 888.....888...888 ..888...888......??I....????+I....????=......I??,......??I???: >> 888.....888...8888 8888...888888...???...???????...??????......I???.........???? >> 888.....888....888~888....888888...I??...I????I...=??????......????........????+ >> 888.....888.....88888 ....888......???... ???I....I.I??I.......???.......III?II. >> 8888888.888.....=888D.....8888888 .+???..........I.........I........,+......~??. >> 8888888 888..... 888......8888888...?????I....~I????....=??I......I?I+......???. >> ....................................????????????????????????????????????????I?,. >> ..........................................??II.................................. >> .........................................=?? ................................... >> ................................................................................ >> >> >> The climate in Monaco is arid and full of friends of Zsa-Zsa Gabor, as well as people who have lost their shirts at the Casino . . . so I don't think one can grow cherries there. Try it in Courier! Richmond. From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Oct 25 17:33:20 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 17:33:20 -0400 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D0C88.5000006@gmail.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0C88.5000006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F09A292-A8D6-4F06-B60B-F8665AF211EF@all-auctions.com> Forget the cherry, we need lit candles so we can see our code better! We need candles! ;-) Rick > On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:08 PM, Richmond wrote: > > On 25/10/15 18:59, Kevin Miller wrote: >> We did not promise a cherry. We are not going to promise a cherry. No cherry is planned. We will not be held accountable for non-delivery of said item. > > Now, that's odd: I'm sure the word "cherry" occurred somewhere on a web-page that has somehow, subsequently been deleted . . . . > > Richmond. From alex at tweedly.net Sun Oct 25 18:39:51 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 22:39:51 +0000 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562C233D.1080702@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <562D5A37.1040504@tweedly.net> Well, it's a sad comment on my filing system, but it was easier to rewrite this handler from scratch (and memory) than it was to find the original :-) Note this is done as a handler rather than a function, because it has 3 return values - a list of files, a list of folders, and a list of any errors. It would be trivial to convert to a function if you prefer that; I just dislike functions with return parameter values. So, it's had a decent half-hour of testing, but no more than that. Usual money back guarantee applies .... btw - there is a variant using "repeat for each line" which is marginally more efficient, but it depends on a quirk of the current LC implementation, which allows appending to the variable being iterated over - so I won't mention it here; it could (conceivably, but not likely) fail in some future version. on mouseUp local theFolder answer folder "Start where" put it into theFile local filesList, folderList, errorList put the millisecs into tStart AllFiles theFile, true, filesList, folderList, errorList put filesList into field "Field 1" end mouseUp command AllFiles theFolder, pDetail, @pFiles, @pFolders, @pErrors set the defaultFolder to theFolder if the result is not empty then put "initial folder" & theFolder &CR afte rpErrorList exit to top end if put 0 into tHighest put 0 into tCurrent add 1 to tHighest put theFolder into tA[tHighest] repeat until tCurrent >= tHighest add 1 to tCurrent put tA[tCurrent] into tNow set the defaultFolder to tNow if the result is not empty then put "Problem with" && tNow &Cr after pErrors next repeat end if if pDetailed then put the detailed files into tF else put the files into tF end if repeat for each line L in tF put tNow & "/" & L &CR after pFiles end repeat put the folders into tF filter tF without ".*" repeat for each line L in tF add 1 to tHighest put tNow & "/" & L into tA[tHighest] end repeat end repeat combine tA with CR put tA into pFolders end AllFiles Let me know of any problems. -- Alex. On 25/10/2015 03:12, JB wrote: >> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> >> If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some time ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up) >> >> -- Alex. > I would like a copy of that if you > dig one up. > > JB > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown at pacifier.com Sun Oct 25 19:05:27 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:05:27 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <562D5A37.1040504@tweedly.net> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562C233D.1080702@tweedly.net> <562D5A37.1040504@tweedly.net> Message-ID: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, Alex. JB > On Oct 25, 2015, at 3:39 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > Well, it's a sad comment on my filing system, but it was easier to rewrite this handler from scratch (and memory) than it was to find the original :-) > > Note this is done as a handler rather than a function, because it has 3 return values - a list of files, a list of folders, and a list of any errors. It would be trivial to convert to a function if you prefer that; I just dislike functions with return parameter values. > > So, it's had a decent half-hour of testing, but no more than that. Usual money back guarantee applies .... > > btw - there is a variant using "repeat for each line" which is marginally more efficient, but it depends on a quirk of the current LC implementation, which allows appending to the variable being iterated over - so I won't mention it here; it could (conceivably, but not likely) fail in some future version. > > > on mouseUp > local theFolder > answer folder "Start where" > put it into theFile > > local filesList, folderList, errorList > put the millisecs into tStart > AllFiles theFile, true, filesList, folderList, errorList > > put filesList into field "Field 1" > > end mouseUp > > command AllFiles theFolder, pDetail, @pFiles, @pFolders, @pErrors > > set the defaultFolder to theFolder > if the result is not empty > then > put "initial folder" & theFolder &CR afte rpErrorList > exit to top > end if > > put 0 into tHighest > put 0 into tCurrent > > add 1 to tHighest > put theFolder into tA[tHighest] > > repeat until tCurrent >= tHighest > > add 1 to tCurrent > > put tA[tCurrent] into tNow > set the defaultFolder to tNow > if the result is not empty then > put "Problem with" && tNow &Cr after pErrors > next repeat > end if > > if pDetailed then > put the detailed files into tF > else > put the files into tF > end if > > repeat for each line L in tF > put tNow & "/" & L &CR after pFiles > end repeat > > put the folders into tF > filter tF without ".*" > > repeat for each line L in tF > add 1 to tHighest > put tNow & "/" & L into tA[tHighest] > end repeat > > end repeat > > combine tA with CR > put tA into pFolders > > end AllFiles > > Let me know of any problems. > -- Alex. > > On 25/10/2015 03:12, JB wrote: >>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>> >>> If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some time ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up) >>> >>> -- Alex. >> I would like a copy of that if you >> dig one up. >> >> JB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 19:17:36 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:17:36 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562D012A.9050705@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <562BF2C4.4010804@hyperactivesw.com> <562C2F31.4030103@ahsoftware.net> <562C7144.1030706@hyperactivesw.com> <562C886D.3090701@gmail.com> <70616C86-998C-4E6C-B97D-59ADC07899B4@gmail.com> <562D012A.9050705@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Richmond wrote: > > and obviously the situation could be made worse by bad extensions, but >> bad extensions wouldn't survive. >> > > Well, they will if, despite being written in obscurantist code they do > what they are meant to do. cruft is cruft, I meant that bad extensions might be used once or twice, but they wouldn't be used repeatedly. But it could be the case that something difficult to understand turns out to be worth the bother, and that no one manages to come up with a clearer representation for it. In that case, everyone would be free to decide whether it was worth it to them. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Oct 25 19:27:05 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:27:05 +0100 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Thanks for all your comments. Richard was right, my recursion limit error was caused by the fact that the directory could not be set. It was, like Alex assumed, a strange character in a folder. After i changed that folder name in my ?sample? harddrive i was able to import the drive. In future my program will ask if the customer wants to continue or quit when the directory change was not successful with some additonal information about the folder. And Alex, thanks for your script. Regards, Matthias > Am 25.10.2015 um 01:28 schrieb Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D : > > Hi, > > long time ago i created a program which creates a list of files of backup cds or dvds and stores that listings in a database with some additional information like cd name/number. > So if the customer needs to know on which cd/dvd a needed fileis, the database can be searched. This worked fine a long time. But with time the customer used harddrives for the backups. > So they imported now the file listing of harddrives. Even that worked fin. But now with bigger drives and more stuff stored on the drives my program is not able to import the file listing anymore if the number of files/folders exceed a special number. It just freezes. > > If i try to create a directory listing of such a drive in Livecode i get an recursion limit error telling me that the recursion limit of 400000 was reached. I tried to increase that limit, but i still get that error, but with the newly set value. > > I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html > > Is there a way to scan a complete drive with LC regardless how many folders and subfolder that drive contains without getting that recursion limit error? > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > > > Matthias Rebbe > Bramkampsieke 13 > 32312 L?bbecke > Tel +49 5741 310000 > +49 160 5504462 > Fax: +49 5741 310002 > eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > > BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 25 19:42:02 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:42:02 -0700 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> On 10/25/2015 12:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Make your own cherry with LCB and give the first couple of versions away > for free. Then somewhere just after version 3 you could sell a more > expensive chocolate-covered version and call it Cherry Pi. > That's an irrational idea. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sundown at pacifier.com Sun Oct 25 19:58:45 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:58:45 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <562D5A37.1040504@tweedly.net> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562C233D.1080702@tweedly.net> <562D5A37.1040504@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <462B86A8-9521-4A10-895B-42D09F2F1166@pacifier.com> I have been testing it out and it is working good so far. I set the cursor to watch after selecting. I am not sure if setting it to busy in a repeat will take too much time on large operations. Is there and easy way to have it only list the folder paths? JB > On Oct 25, 2015, at 3:39 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > Well, it's a sad comment on my filing system, but it was easier to rewrite this handler from scratch (and memory) than it was to find the original :-) > > Note this is done as a handler rather than a function, because it has 3 return values - a list of files, a list of folders, and a list of any errors. It would be trivial to convert to a function if you prefer that; I just dislike functions with return parameter values. > > So, it's had a decent half-hour of testing, but no more than that. Usual money back guarantee applies .... > > btw - there is a variant using "repeat for each line" which is marginally more efficient, but it depends on a quirk of the current LC implementation, which allows appending to the variable being iterated over - so I won't mention it here; it could (conceivably, but not likely) fail in some future version. > > > on mouseUp > local theFolder > answer folder "Start where" > put it into theFile > > local filesList, folderList, errorList > put the millisecs into tStart > AllFiles theFile, true, filesList, folderList, errorList > > put filesList into field "Field 1" > > end mouseUp > > command AllFiles theFolder, pDetail, @pFiles, @pFolders, @pErrors > > set the defaultFolder to theFolder > if the result is not empty > then > put "initial folder" & theFolder &CR afte rpErrorList > exit to top > end if > > put 0 into tHighest > put 0 into tCurrent > > add 1 to tHighest > put theFolder into tA[tHighest] > > repeat until tCurrent >= tHighest > > add 1 to tCurrent > > put tA[tCurrent] into tNow > set the defaultFolder to tNow > if the result is not empty then > put "Problem with" && tNow &Cr after pErrors > next repeat > end if > > if pDetailed then > put the detailed files into tF > else > put the files into tF > end if > > repeat for each line L in tF > put tNow & "/" & L &CR after pFiles > end repeat > > put the folders into tF > filter tF without ".*" > > repeat for each line L in tF > add 1 to tHighest > put tNow & "/" & L into tA[tHighest] > end repeat > > end repeat > > combine tA with CR > put tA into pFolders > > end AllFiles > > Let me know of any problems. > -- Alex. > > On 25/10/2015 03:12, JB wrote: >>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>> >>> If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some time ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up) >>> >>> -- Alex. >> I would like a copy of that if you >> dig one up. >> >> JB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gbojsza at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 20:10:55 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 20:10:55 -0400 Subject: Sending encrypted and authenticated emails In-Reply-To: <23031B68-FF46-4D2D-850C-B9FFC77BDD70@iotecdigital.com> References: <23031B68-FF46-4D2D-850C-B9FFC77BDD70@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, I tried contacting via bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com but the mail bounced. I was going to try and help with the Telnet solution. Glen On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Hi all. > > I just figured out how to send encrypted authenticated emails via Exchange > servers (although the same process applies to non-Exchange systems) via a > shell. Telnet has to be installed to do this however, and Windows 7 and up > have the telnet client disabled by default for some reason. If I can use > the sockets commands built into Livecode, I will attempt to do that instead. > > I am going to put together a library stack, and will probably need to beta > test it. Anyone interested please send me a private message, and I will get > a copy out to you at the earliest convenience. > > Bob S > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobcole at earthlink.net Sun Oct 25 20:27:40 2015 From: bobcole at earthlink.net (Bob Cole) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:27:40 -0500 Subject: dehilite Message-ID: <516D895D-546F-4EC3-883B-FB1CA30A6733@earthlink.net> It works. I tried this on a new stack with a new button in LC8(dp7) on my Mac. * set the hilite of button 1 to true * dehilite button 1 * put the hilite of button 1 ? returns false Curious. FYI Bob Message: 16 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:05:56 -0500 From: "J. Landman Gay" > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: What is "Open Language"? Message-ID: <562C7144.1030706 at hyperactivesw.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 10/24/2015 8:24 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > I didn't even realize dehilite was a word in the dictionary. Me either. It must be a typo: set de hilite of btn 1 -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From alex at tweedly.net Sun Oct 25 21:09:30 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 01:09:30 +0000 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <462B86A8-9521-4A10-895B-42D09F2F1166@pacifier.com> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562C233D.1080702@tweedly.net> <562D5A37.1040504@tweedly.net> <462B86A8-9521-4A10-895B-42D09F2F1166@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <562D7D4A.2070100@tweedly.net> I'm not sure about cursor setting - you might put in a counter, and set it to busy every 1000 (or 10,000) times through loop. What if we want only folder paths ? I did briefly consider saying that the @pFiles and @pFolders parameters could have TRUE/False values on input, and then say something like (NB - typed into email, not tested !!!!) on mouseUp local theFolder answer folder "Start where" put it into theFile local filesList, folderList, errorList put the millisecs into tStart AllFiles theFile, true, filesList, folderList, errorList put filesList into field "Field 1" end mouseUp command AllFiles theFolder, pDetail, @pFiles, @pFolders, @pErrors set the defaultFolder to theFolder if the result is not empty then put "initial folder" & theFolder &CR afte rpErrorList exit to top end if put 0 into tHighest put 0 into tCurrent add 1 to tHighest put theFolder into tA[tHighest] repeat until tCurrent >= tHighest add 1 to tCurrent put tA[tCurrent] into tNow set the defaultFolder to tNow if the result is not empty then put "Problem with" && tNow &Cr after pErrors next repeat end if if pFiles is TRUE then -- Do we want to return list of files ?? if pDetailed then put the detailed files into tF else put the files into tF end if repeat for each line L in tF put tNow & "/" & L &CR after pFiles end repeat end if put the folders into tF filter tF without ".*" repeat for each line L in tF add 1 to tHighest put tNow & "/" & L into tA[tHighest] end repeat end repeat if pFolders is TRUE then -- Do we want to return list of folders combine tA with CR put tA into pFolders end if end AllFiles On 25/10/2015 23:58, JB wrote: > I have been testing it out and it is working good > so far. I set the cursor to watch after selecting. > I am not sure if setting it to busy in a repeat will > take too much time on large operations. > > Is there and easy way to have it only list the > folder paths? > > JB > > >> On Oct 25, 2015, at 3:39 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> Well, it's a sad comment on my filing system, but it was easier to rewrite this handler from scratch (and memory) than it was to find the original :-) >> >> Note this is done as a handler rather than a function, because it has 3 return values - a list of files, a list of folders, and a list of any errors. It would be trivial to convert to a function if you prefer that; I just dislike functions with return parameter values. >> >> So, it's had a decent half-hour of testing, but no more than that. Usual money back guarantee applies .... >> >> btw - there is a variant using "repeat for each line" which is marginally more efficient, but it depends on a quirk of the current LC implementation, which allows appending to the variable being iterated over - so I won't mention it here; it could (conceivably, but not likely) fail in some future version. >> >> >> on mouseUp >> local theFolder >> answer folder "Start where" >> put it into theFile >> >> local filesList, folderList, errorList >> put the millisecs into tStart >> AllFiles theFile, true, filesList, folderList, errorList >> >> put filesList into field "Field 1" >> >> end mouseUp >> >> command AllFiles theFolder, pDetail, @pFiles, @pFolders, @pErrors >> >> set the defaultFolder to theFolder >> if the result is not empty >> then >> put "initial folder" & theFolder &CR afte rpErrorList >> exit to top >> end if >> >> put 0 into tHighest >> put 0 into tCurrent >> >> add 1 to tHighest >> put theFolder into tA[tHighest] >> >> repeat until tCurrent >= tHighest >> >> add 1 to tCurrent >> >> put tA[tCurrent] into tNow >> set the defaultFolder to tNow >> if the result is not empty then >> put "Problem with" && tNow &Cr after pErrors >> next repeat >> end if >> >> if pDetailed then >> put the detailed files into tF >> else >> put the files into tF >> end if >> >> repeat for each line L in tF >> put tNow & "/" & L &CR after pFiles >> end repeat >> >> put the folders into tF >> filter tF without ".*" >> >> repeat for each line L in tF >> add 1 to tHighest >> put tNow & "/" & L into tA[tHighest] >> end repeat >> >> end repeat >> >> combine tA with CR >> put tA into pFolders >> >> end AllFiles >> >> Let me know of any problems. >> -- Alex. >> >> On 25/10/2015 03:12, JB wrote: >>>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some time ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up) >>>> >>>> -- Alex. >>> I would like a copy of that if you >>> dig one up. >>> >>> JB >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Oct 25 21:34:42 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 21:34:42 -0400 Subject: "Question"? Message-ID: Question is reserved as a keyword in the SE, but I don't see it in the dictionary. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From sundown at pacifier.com Sun Oct 25 21:38:33 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:38:33 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <562D7D4A.2070100@tweedly.net> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562C233D.1080702@tweedly.net> <562D5A37.1040504@tweedly.net> <462B86A8-9521-4A10-895B-42D09F2F1166@pacifier.com> <562D7D4A.2070100@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <24B9AF46-8086-48A2-A457-CD788F60E60C@pacifier.com> Okay - Thank you very much again! JB > On Oct 25, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > I'm not sure about cursor setting - you might put in a counter, and set it to busy every 1000 (or 10,000) times through loop. > > What if we want only folder paths ? > > I did briefly consider saying that the @pFiles and @pFolders parameters could have TRUE/False values on input, and then say something like > (NB - typed into email, not tested !!!!) > > on mouseUp > local theFolder > answer folder "Start where" > put it into theFile > > local filesList, folderList, errorList > put the millisecs into tStart > AllFiles theFile, true, filesList, folderList, errorList > > put filesList into field "Field 1" > > end mouseUp > > command AllFiles theFolder, pDetail, @pFiles, @pFolders, @pErrors > > set the defaultFolder to theFolder > if the result is not empty > then > put "initial folder" & theFolder &CR afte rpErrorList > exit to top > end if > > put 0 into tHighest > put 0 into tCurrent > > add 1 to tHighest > put theFolder into tA[tHighest] > > repeat until tCurrent >= tHighest > > add 1 to tCurrent > > put tA[tCurrent] into tNow > set the defaultFolder to tNow > if the result is not empty then > put "Problem with" && tNow &Cr after pErrors > next repeat > end if > > if pFiles is TRUE then -- Do we want to return list of files ?? > if pDetailed then > put the detailed files into tF > else > put the files into tF > end if > repeat for each line L in tF > put tNow & "/" & L &CR after pFiles > end repeat > end if > > put the folders into tF > filter tF without ".*" > > repeat for each line L in tF > add 1 to tHighest > put tNow & "/" & L into tA[tHighest] > end repeat > > end repeat > > if pFolders is TRUE then -- Do we want to return list of folders > combine tA with CR > put tA into pFolders > end if > > end AllFiles > > > > On 25/10/2015 23:58, JB wrote: >> I have been testing it out and it is working good >> so far. I set the cursor to watch after selecting. >> I am not sure if setting it to busy in a repeat will >> take too much time on large operations. >> >> Is there and easy way to have it only list the >> folder paths? >> >> JB >> >> >>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 3:39 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>> Well, it's a sad comment on my filing system, but it was easier to rewrite this handler from scratch (and memory) than it was to find the original :-) >>> >>> Note this is done as a handler rather than a function, because it has 3 return values - a list of files, a list of folders, and a list of any errors. It would be trivial to convert to a function if you prefer that; I just dislike functions with return parameter values. >>> >>> So, it's had a decent half-hour of testing, but no more than that. Usual money back guarantee applies .... >>> >>> btw - there is a variant using "repeat for each line" which is marginally more efficient, but it depends on a quirk of the current LC implementation, which allows appending to the variable being iterated over - so I won't mention it here; it could (conceivably, but not likely) fail in some future version. >>> >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> local theFolder >>> answer folder "Start where" >>> put it into theFile >>> >>> local filesList, folderList, errorList >>> put the millisecs into tStart >>> AllFiles theFile, true, filesList, folderList, errorList >>> >>> put filesList into field "Field 1" >>> >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> command AllFiles theFolder, pDetail, @pFiles, @pFolders, @pErrors >>> >>> set the defaultFolder to theFolder >>> if the result is not empty >>> then >>> put "initial folder" & theFolder &CR afte rpErrorList >>> exit to top >>> end if >>> >>> put 0 into tHighest >>> put 0 into tCurrent >>> >>> add 1 to tHighest >>> put theFolder into tA[tHighest] >>> >>> repeat until tCurrent >= tHighest >>> >>> add 1 to tCurrent >>> >>> put tA[tCurrent] into tNow >>> set the defaultFolder to tNow >>> if the result is not empty then >>> put "Problem with" && tNow &Cr after pErrors >>> next repeat >>> end if >>> >>> if pDetailed then >>> put the detailed files into tF >>> else >>> put the files into tF >>> end if >>> >>> repeat for each line L in tF >>> put tNow & "/" & L &CR after pFiles >>> end repeat >>> >>> put the folders into tF >>> filter tF without ".*" >>> >>> repeat for each line L in tF >>> add 1 to tHighest >>> put tNow & "/" & L into tA[tHighest] >>> end repeat >>> >>> end repeat >>> >>> combine tA with CR >>> put tA into pFolders >>> >>> end AllFiles >>> >>> Let me know of any problems. >>> -- Alex. >>> >>> On 25/10/2015 03:12, JB wrote: >>>>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some time ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up) >>>>> >>>>> -- Alex. >>>> I would like a copy of that if you >>>> dig one up. >>>> >>>> JB >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 25 21:50:25 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:50:25 +1100 Subject: "Question"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <570B32C1-9524-4F66-B4BC-7F69A3CBC9D7@sweattechnologies.com> > On 26 Oct 2015, at 12:34 pm, Mike Kerner wrote: > > Question is reserved as a keyword in the SE, but I don't see it in the > dictionary. answer | ask question -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Oct 25 22:10:14 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 21:10:14 -0500 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <562D8B86.6030607@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/25/2015 6:42 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/25/2015 12:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> Make your own cherry with LCB and give the first couple of versions away >> for free. Then somewhere just after version 3 you could sell a more >> expensive chocolate-covered version and call it Cherry Pi. >> > > That's an irrational idea. > Quite, but it just goes on and on... -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 25 22:12:17 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:12:17 -0700 Subject: dehilite In-Reply-To: <516D895D-546F-4EC3-883B-FB1CA30A6733@earthlink.net> References: <516D895D-546F-4EC3-883B-FB1CA30A6733@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <562D8C01.4050406@ahsoftware.net> On 10/25/2015 05:27 PM, Bob Cole wrote: > It works. I tried this on a new stack with a new button in LC8(dp7) on my Mac. > > * set the hilite of button 1 to true > * dehilite button 1 > * put the hilite of button 1 ? returns false > > Curious. FYI It's a synonym for "unhilite". Apparently both have been around since rev 1.0. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Oct 25 22:19:14 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:19:14 -0700 Subject: Sending encrypted and authenticated emails In-Reply-To: References: <23031B68-FF46-4D2D-850C-B9FFC77BDD70@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <562D8DA2.2010103@ahsoftware.net> On 10/25/2015 05:10 PM, Glen Bojsza wrote: > Hi Bob, > > I tried contacting via bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com but the mail bounced. I bounced an email to Bob as well. No doubt a temporary server glitch, although the Exchange headers in the bounce message are pretty scary. 10/25/2015 11:39:19 PM - Remote Server at na01-internal.map.protection.outlook.com (10.58.52.27) returned '451 4.4.0 Primary target IP address responded with: "421 4.3.2 Service not available." Attempted failover to alternate host, but that did not succeed. Either there are no alternate hosts, or delivery failed to all alternate hosts. The last endpoint attempted was 198.24.239.75:1701' -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 22:30:38 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:30:38 -0700 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D8B86.6030607@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <562D8B86.6030607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 7:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > That's an irrational idea. >> >> > Quite, but it just goes on and on.. > We're not going to repeat this again? :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From brahma at hindu.org Sun Oct 25 23:01:09 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 03:01:09 +0000 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> wow? I didn?t fully realize that glx2 was still alive. I bought a license from Jerry for that years ago? loved it, just downloaded, thanks Mark But: ha! forgot how it works? where is the documentation? I see the sub bar gray notification underneath LC ide toolbar (7.1GM for me right now) and the blue to gray to blue toggle on the GLX2 label. How do you launch into it? On 10/22/15, 11:08 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd" wrote: >I?d forgotten how much I liked GLX2. Thanks so much for maintaining it >Mark. > >Terry... > From brahma at hindu.org Sun Oct 25 23:29:30 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 03:29:30 +0000 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> Message-ID: <140800BF-A20F-438F-BD60-CCAB363E0B04@hindu.org> forget this? I found everything? marvelous1 tks Swasti Astu! Be Well Brahmanathaswami Kauai?s Hindu Monastery www.himalayanacademy.com On 10/25/15, 5:01 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami" wrote: >wow? I didn?t fully realize that glx2 was still alive. I bought a license from Jerry for that years ago? loved it, > >just downloaded, > >thanks Mark > >But: ha! forgot how it works? where is the documentation? > >I see the sub bar gray notification underneath LC ide toolbar (7.1GM for me right now) and the blue to gray to blue toggle on the GLX2 label. > >How do you launch into it? From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 25 23:35:50 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:35:50 +1100 Subject: find & replace Message-ID: <94DB6D89-14EF-4A36-A6C1-F431543C812F@sweattechnologies.com> Has anyone got a find and replace stack that actually works? I?ve got to rebrand an app quickly and the find and replace in the IDE seems to not actually replace anything or at least seems to only replace some things when it feels like it? I haven?t got time to debug what?s going on? Cheers Monte From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Oct 25 23:48:49 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:48:49 +1100 Subject: find & replace In-Reply-To: <94DB6D89-14EF-4A36-A6C1-F431543C812F@sweattechnologies.com> References: <94DB6D89-14EF-4A36-A6C1-F431543C812F@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <950ED888-412C-4AA0-A983-8E495FB14519@sweattechnologies.com> > On 26 Oct 2015, at 2:35 pm, Monte Goulding wrote: > > Has anyone got a find and replace stack that actually works? I?ve got to rebrand an app quickly and the find and replace in the IDE seems to not actually replace anything or at least seems to only replace some things when it feels like it? I haven?t got time to debug what?s going on? Hmm? it turns out it works if you only select one of the name, script, custom, field text, button text, all other checkboxes at a time. Not sure why... From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 00:00:16 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:00:16 -0400 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: > I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list > and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html > Man, do I hate looking at my old code... From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Oct 26 04:50:12 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:50:12 +0100 Subject: show/hide or open/close stack. What is good practice? Message-ID: <005601d10fcb$53faad10$fbf00730$@kestner.de> Hello, if I have stacks, which are frequently shown, like dialog windows, what is good practice. Open once and only show/hide, when using? Or should you close those kind of stacks always and toplevel/modal them again every time when needed? When I need to change anything in those stacks on the fly, like button labels, I open them only once and hide/show them when needed. Is this just a personal preference or is there a guideline on "how to" in LC? What do you think about this? Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 05:00:20 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:00:20 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 22:47, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/24/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > >> * hilite -> highlight > > Actually I filed a bug report on that six years ago. > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8211 > > It got confirmed and ignored. > I just submitted a pull request. > Figured I might as well fix this myself. There's a slippery slope here (in terms of the current engine parsing implementation at least) which means that just adding synonyms because the lack of them 'annoy' a small set of people (and/or because you can) really isn't something which makes sense. It is clear that originally 'hilite' was the chosen spelling for that operation - it is an 'informal' spelling of 'highlight' which has been historically used in GUI frameworks (probably because it is a good deal shorter than 'highlight' - something which those who are fond of 'grp', 'fld', 'ac, 'cd' etc. should feel at home with ;)) There was obviously clearly some contention over whether 'dehilite' or 'unhilite' should be the antonym - given that even 'dehighlight' nor 'unhighlight' tend to appear in dictionaries this is probably not surprising. So, clearly someone 'complained' at some point (which is probably why dehilite and unhilite both exist) and 'highlight' was added. Indeed, there are actually the following fundamental synonyms for 'hilite' in the engine: - highlight - highlighted - highlite - highlited - hilite - hilited So that is 6 ways to write exactly the same thing. (It gets better in a moment) We now have the following 'compound' property names involving 'hilite': - hiliteborder - hilitecolor - hilitefill - hiliteicon - hilitepattern - hilitepixel We also have the following 'compound' property names involving 'hilited': - hilitedbutton - hilitedbuttonid - hilitedbuttonname - hilitedicon - hilitedline - hilitedtext There are also the following 'other' properties: - autohilight - autohilite - linkhilitecolor - multiplehilites - noncontiguoushilites - sharedhilite - showhilite - threedhilite - togglehilites So, there are (in fact) the following variations on 'hilite' currently in use in the engine: - hilite - highlite - hilight - highlight Which, if accounted for in synonyms would mean we would end up with (I believe) 72 keywords if we ignore the 'ed' forms, and 144 if we have both the preset and past participles. Also, it means that every time anyone wants to add a property containing 'hilite', they need to add 4 (maybe 8) variants. This kind of 'blow-up' suggests that there is something wrong with the approach. So, I do think that in this case it would be far better to *choose* what variant spelling is the normative one and deprecate all the other synonyms at least until there is a much better mechanism in place for parsing and resolving synonyms (i.e. when compound properties are specified as separate words, and synonyms are substitutions done as a pre-processing step). For anything like there has to a policy and my policy has always been - you choose a single representative for a single concept and you stick to it. In this case 'hilite' is a perfectly valid word to use (given its domain - i.e. GUIs); indeed, it is just as valid a choice for 'highlight' as 'color' is for 'colour' and 'behavior' is for 'behaviour'. At the end of the day this is a computer language and as such logical and sensible choices have to be made. (One could also argue that the problem of synonyms and abbreviations is far better handled in the script-editing environment... Although nobody ever seems to agree with me on that one - even though the resulting effect would be identical for all intents and purposes ;)). Now, I'm not saying this won't change - clearly there is a want for synonyms as a fair few people seem quite fond of them. However, there needs to be a good mechanism in place to deal with them in the engine and there currently is not (particularly when considering compound forms) so caution is hugely advisable. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 05:10:39 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:10:39 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-24 18:53, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Two questions: > > 1. Do we have a projected timeline for that? LiveCode 9. > 2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often > incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing > basic things like setting the rect of a button? :) (This is why I > get food thrown at me while speaking at LiveCode conferences) That seems like quite an odd 'goal' to have... I've always thought it best to set 'goals' which are positive and beneficial things. I have to say I don't think I would have wasted any of my mental energy in working on something with a 'goal' such as that in mind but then, that might just be me. It will be a possible side-effect - however, I suspect it would be an exceptionally unlikely outcome. One can spend a great deal of time worrying about such things and in doing so you bite your nose off to spite your face. As a comparison - we are, these days, used to moving ourselves around in small metal boxes with explosions in front of our feet (i.e. cars). Statistics tend to rate this form as transport as the least safe, however I don't think the goal of the people who developed automotive transport was to kill 100,000s of people a year... At least not in my universe! Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 26 05:26:30 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:26:30 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: I agree with you. I hate synonyms. They should be replaced by auto-completion. Sent from my iPhone > On 26 Oct 2015, at 8:00 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > (One could also argue that the problem of synonyms and abbreviations is far better handled in the script-editing environment... Although nobody ever seems to agree with me on that one - even though the resulting effect would be identical for all intents and purposes ;)). From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Mon Oct 26 05:44:39 2015 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:44:39 +0000 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: I?d be happy with auto-completion and fewer (or no) synonyms. Terry... On 26/10/2015 8:26 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Monte Goulding" wrote: >I agree with you. I hate synonyms. They should be replaced by >auto-completion. > >Sent from my iPhone > >> On 26 Oct 2015, at 8:00 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> (One could also argue that the problem of synonyms and abbreviations is >>far better handled in the script-editing environment... Although nobody >>ever seems to agree with me on that one - even though the resulting >>effect would be identical for all intents and purposes ;)). > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Oct 26 05:52:02 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:52:02 +0100 Subject: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? Message-ID: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> Hello, since LC 6.7.6 or 6.7.7 you can enable Hi-DPI scaling in the standalone builder settings for windows. I don't have a Hi-DPI monitor and didn't found anything in the forum about it, so I am unsure what happens with my stack if I would enable this setting? What exactly happens when it says "if enabled, the stack will be scaled to fit"? A Hi-Res monitor has a higher pixel density, but my program windows and objects have fixed sizes in pixel. My understanding is, if I don't enable this setting, my stacks will be displayed smaller on a Hi-DPI monitor? Correct? And enabling this setting, are they scaled to the "same appearance", as on a standard monitor? Or what happens? If yes, probably images get blurred, when being scaled, so you shouldn't enable this option when you use images, correct? Why is the Hi-DPI support for Windows a chooseable option and for OS X it is standard since 6.7.6 (6.7.7)? Do images don't get blurred, when the stack is resized on OS X? Why can't I disable this option on OS X? How do you handle this option? Do you always enable it? Thanks for your experiences Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 06:06:20 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:06:20 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BD537.7020407@gmail.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> <562BD537.7020407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <42d627ac3dc391a393013e69f3c00829@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 21:00, Richmond wrote: > Well, what to one person is 'natural language' may not be to another: > and a "10,000 different, often incompatible and sometimes confusing, > custom syntax options" does seem to sum that problem up fairly > effectively. Indeed - what is 'natural' to me is different to others. However, language is about communication between individuals and groups. Each develops their own idea of 'naturality' in that context. I have to say that what people do in the privacy of their own homes and with friends is entirely up to them and generally of little interest to me - if they wish to spend a great deal of time developing weird and wonderful ways of setting the rect of a button then, you know what, they can go 'knock themselves out' and have as much fun as they can possibly have with such an endevaour (I certainly won't be spending any time doing so). However, when 'these' people have to interact with others outside of such small groups, then they will find that *unless* their new approach fits entirely within the constraints of the group they are proffering it to and is demonstrably 'better' or gives more benefits than the existing one, then they will most likely find limited support. > It is an unreachable ideal for the plain and simple reason that > computers do not work in the > same way as human brains. Interesting - I must confess I'm not quite up to date with the latest frontier research on that subject but certainly last time I did dig into it that was still an unanswered question. If you are absolutely sure about your assertion and have a proof for it then I suggest you write up a paper right now and submit it for peer review in an appropriate academic journal - you would quickly find yourself probably being inline for a sizeable prize or two, and international renown (and indeed probably have a whole array of job offers at many prestigious academic and research institutions around the world). (Just for the sake of others, I should explain - asserting that 'computers do not work in the same way as human brains' means that the human brain is fundamentally capable of solving a greater set of problems than modern computers - i.e. the human brain is not a Turing Machine but something more) Of course, whilst intellectually interesting, the reality is that computers have gotten pretty darn good (and continue to get better) at approximating the outward effects of the human brain in every increasing areas; which means whether or not their computational models are equivalent or not is really not that relevant on a day-to-day basis. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 06:09:13 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:09:13 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <0037644a1bf83ce0c927c9e097122d96@livecode.com> On 2015-10-26 10:26, Monte Goulding wrote: > I agree with you. I hate synonyms. They should be replaced by > auto-completion. How about 'spelling assist' too - referencing a dynamic dictionary based on context. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 09:35:40 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:35:40 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 6 Message-ID: <562E2C2C.2060805@livecode.com> Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #6 here: https://goo.gl/p5uWxk This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From malamoud.public at free.fr Mon Oct 26 09:47:15 2015 From: malamoud.public at free.fr (Georges Malamoud) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:47:15 +0100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? Message-ID: Don?t forget other possibilities of this future open language : Allow scripts to be written in a non-english language - french in my case for example - especially for kids and students from non english speaking developing countries. Different words and slightly different syntax. These foreign scripts would be translated in Livecode open language (which could by the way be translated in english after). There were comments at Kickstarter times about such possibilities (low priority on the list, but still there and announced). Of course it covers also British to american ;) Georges Malamoud From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 10:17:05 2015 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:17:05 +0100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <0037644a1bf83ce0c927c9e097122d96@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <0037644a1bf83ce0c927c9e097122d96@livecode.com> Message-ID: Originally I had thought that "Open Language" means to allow LiveCode to run other scripting languages within it's framework, for example using Python, or somehow link such languages into LiveCode. I started hating "machines" who started "understanding" me and making assumptions about what I want. Already I hate when at Google confines me to a certain earthly region and that it became almost impossible or very difficult to change language. Again I want to become a "free" user of the Internet. Or at least, there should be a button to switch OFF all assumption about who I am and what I want. I would love LiveCode NOT to understand the uncertainty of me. Computers should not be behave being as ambiguous as we humans are. We love them because they do what we want them to do, and not the other ways around, and computer language should not leave much space for interpretation. It follows a logic, and as long as it does that, it is acceptable. And we love LiveCode because it allows to express logic in a way which is near to human language - but will never replace it (I hope at least). So, I like Monte's suggestion to have an auto-correct feature to help correcting wrong input and wrong spelling - the correct one being defined in the dictionary with as few synonyms as possible, but not force us not to do something wrong. In case of wrong-doing, the compiler should bark at us, or the application will misbehave - and we have learnt from doing wrong and may have a chance to correct ourselves. (The new scripting environment of FileMaker 14 is not so bad in accomplishing some of this. A good place to take lessons from. As much as I hated the old scripting environment, the new one has nice edges and really is supportive...) The language should grow not in the sense of making things more ambiguous as they already are, but just advance the capabilities of expression within limitations. If these limitations would be removed, the river will not find it's bed to the ocean and spread all over in an uncontrolled way. We would have big problems understanding each-other, and the effect will be simply chaotic programming style. I do not believe that the need for programming will die in 20 years as someone here stated. Such prognosis was there already 20 years ago that soon machines will program themselves. At least I do not want it - or only as much as boundaries can be clearly defined. We could also state that logic will not be needed in 20 years, or that we all started stop using our mental capabilities and hand over our brain to the computer. I do not want the computer to switch on the light in my room when I enter, and know in advance what I am going to do or think or wish - unless I completely control its behavior. Thinking further, this leads to quite a philosophical discussion and touches the base of our human existence and the notion about who we are. Think of musical notes. Would Mozart have been able to communicate his genius without them? Musical notes leave all the space for expression, but still confine the basic intention into a framework of the limitations of a language. Why do we love LiveCode? Or why would students love it? Because it gives freedom of expression within a set of limitations - using simple English expressions. How would a Chinese learn all the intricacies of English vocabulary? He will not. Keep it simple and "stupid" within it's own set, as musical notes are not that difficult to learn, but using them is quite an interesting and different matter. When there is a flow of beauty in such language, people will catch on. But do not make it to be really English. Let us rather focus on thinking what such typical user might expect when writing a statement. Will the machine act accordingly? Or will there be unexpected results? And if there are unexpected results, there must be "work-rounds", and then things become ugly. In this sense I would raise my voice against "Open Language". But I am all for more and more beauty in LiveCode, and for ever growing power accomplishing things that we want the machines to do in the most logical way possible using LiveCode. And I think the "team" is trying to just accomplish this - step by step. I admire them. People are not against learning as long as there is a fruit to be gained.And if we do not challenge our brain with ever growing sophistication then it will also just die away. ) Roland On 26 October 2015 at 11:09, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-26 10:26, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> I agree with you. I hate synonyms. They should be replaced by >> auto-completion. >> > > How about 'spelling assist' too - referencing a dynamic dictionary based > on context. > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 10:18:02 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (gcanyon at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:18:02 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: I wrote something like this about a dozen years ago: a script pre-processor that worked with the script editor to store the pre-processed script as a custom property for use later. I remember implementing default values for parameters like so: on someHandler paramOne=27, paramTwo=13 Which would translate to: on someHandler paramOne, paramTwo if paramOne is empty then put 27 into paramOne if paramTwo is empty then put 13 into paramTwo and a few other preprocessor commands as well. gc > On Oct 26, 2015, at 5:00 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > One could also argue that the problem of synonyms and abbreviations is far better handled in the script-editing environment... Although nobody ever seems to agree with me on that one - even though the resulting effect would be identical for all intents and purposes ;)). From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 26 10:34:11 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 07:34:11 -0700 Subject: Print stack as PDF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562E39E3.4070201@fourthworld.com> Spookier that you happened to be reading that particular message from 2008 in 2015. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > stephen barncard stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com > Sun Oct 25 06:32:46 CET 2015 > Previous message: parentheses within string break value() > Next message: Open Language and stability > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: > >> - Charles Reich, The Greening of America >> _______________________________________________ >> > > This is so spooky. At this very moment, I was passing along the email of > Charles Reich to a crew that's working on a new GD documentary. Charles did > a noted interview with Jerry Garcia for rolling stone at Jerry's house in > 1972 and I was involved in 'mastering' the 3 hours of interviews for > intelligibility at my home studio in Sausalito. > I copied back on to a cassette for Charles back then, kept the work tape > for 40 years, and digitized it recently. > > sqb From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Oct 26 10:51:35 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:51:35 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi Mark, Whenever one deprecates code, it destroys someone?s code somewhere. Don?t do it. I had a project I had worked on for 10 years of my life. It encompassed over 70,000 lines of hard won hand-written code. One day the company who was producing the language decided to make some major changes deprecating much of the language. There was no migration tool provided by the company to make the changes painless. I spent yet another year of my life hand coding the changes to get the code working again. Two years later, the company did the same thing yet again! I couldn?t afford to go through the process yet again. My code was basically destroyed by the company by deprecation of the code base. A work around is to let all previous versions work, and put the final winning candidate into the dictionary, the others will no longer appear in the documentation. This solves the problem with the least disruption as it doesn?t break anyone?s code, but helps to streamline the desired future syntax for the language. Just my 2 cents for the day. Cheers, Rick > On Oct 26, 2015, at 5:00 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > So, I do think that in this case it would be far better to *choose* what variant spelling is the normative one and deprecate all the other synonyms at least until there is a much better mechanism in place for parsing and resolving synonyms (i.e. when compound properties are specified as separate words, and synonyms are substitutions done as a pre-processing step). From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 11:13:33 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:13:33 +0000 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> Message-ID: <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> A few notes about GLX2. There are no red dot breakpoints in GLX2 (unless I am missing something). So you might be tempted to turn on and off GLX2 as needed. Problem is, GLX2 has it's own versioning system that allows you to go back x compiles to a prior version. The built-in compiler does not know about this, so switching from GLX2 back to the built-in debugger has a surprise for you. It will load a prior version of your script without all the changes you may have recently made. There is a feature to account for this, warning you that the version it's loading and the version it expected are not the same, but I have found this unreliable at times, and I have lost edits switching back and forth with a stack open. So don't get into the habit of turning it on and off in a session. Use it, or don't. Other than that, I like it a lot, especially the clarvoyance feature which presents a popup of similar matches after typing x characters. That is mainly what I use it for, along with the breadcrumbs feature which adds a link to where you were when you clicked a handler to go to that handler. Bob S > On Oct 25, 2015, at 20:01 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > wow? I didn?t fully realize that glx2 was still alive. I bought a license from Jerry for that years ago? loved it, > > just downloaded, > > thanks Mark > > But: ha! forgot how it works? where is the documentation? > > I see the sub bar gray notification underneath LC ide toolbar (7.1GM for me right now) and the blue to gray to blue toggle on the GLX2 label. > > How do you launch into it? > > > > > > > > > On 10/22/15, 11:08 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd" wrote: > >> I?d forgotten how much I liked GLX2. Thanks so much for maintaining it >> Mark. >> >> Terry... >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 11:16:24 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:16:24 +0000 Subject: Keep Selection Focus When Switching to Substack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006EDD39-2CD7-4BB9-8292-30AACCB7B04A@iotecdigital.com> I think the reply was to trap for suspendStack in your apps, save the current selection and selectedObject, then trap for resumeStack and set it again. It's the only way I've found to do it. It's a pain, but not difficult to implement. I agree that the selection for a stack should not deselect when switching to another stack or app. I suppose then that the selection should be a stack property instead of a global one, but I don't see how they could change it now. Bob S > On Oct 23, 2015, at 19:51 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > I think I asked this before, > > but? is there a way to keep the selection when switching to a substack that is set to palette? > > The goal is to have buttons that operate on selected text, but in a separate stack. > > Brahmanathaswami > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From walter.h.brown at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 11:20:02 2015 From: walter.h.brown at gmail.com (Walt Brown) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:20:02 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: We've seen this before... https://sites.google.com/site/hoytssecretlair/resources/s-1 Walt On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Rick Harrison wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Whenever one deprecates code, it destroys someone?s code somewhere. > Don?t do it. > > I had a project I had worked on for 10 years of my life. It encompassed > over 70,000 lines of hard won hand-written code. One day the company > who was producing the language decided to make some major changes > deprecating much of the language. There was no migration tool provided > by the company to make the changes painless. > > I spent yet another year of my life hand coding the changes to get the code > working again. Two years later, the company did the same thing yet again! > I couldn?t afford to go through the process yet again. My code was > basically destroyed by the company by deprecation of the code base. > > A work around is to let all previous versions work, and put the final > winning > candidate into the dictionary, the others will no longer appear in the > documentation. This solves the problem with the least disruption as it > doesn?t break anyone?s code, but helps to streamline the desired future > syntax for the language. > > Just my 2 cents for the day. > > Cheers, > > Rick > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2015, at 5:00 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > > > So, I do think that in this case it would be far better to *choose* what > variant spelling is the normative one and deprecate all the other synonyms > at least until there is a much better mechanism in place for parsing and > resolving synonyms (i.e. when compound properties are specified as separate > words, and synonyms are substitutions done as a pre-processing step). > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 11:22:43 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:22:43 +0000 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As always, put it into a variable, copy the contents of the variable to the clipboard, either programmatically, or from the debugger, paste it into an SQL editor, and it should show you where the error occurs. Bob S > On Oct 25, 2015, at 08:19 , Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > >> Is 123 a function? If yes, I believe you need to remove the quotes >> surrounding it. >> > > Just some text. I'm trying to concatenated strings, but livecode is > looking at punctuation inside of the quoted literal. > > That was a simplified version; the actual is something like > > "SELECT uniqDNA FROM " & dhtbl_dna & " WHERE (cname||cadr NOT NULL) AND > (chrType <> 'K');" > > > where dhtbl_dna holds a table name and the rest are *supposed* to be string > literals > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 11:27:47 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:27:47 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-26 15:51, Rick Harrison wrote: > Whenever one deprecates code, it destroys someone?s code somewhere. > Don?t do it. Indeed, we have tried and do continue to try our very best not to break people's code as the platform evolves (even though this is a huge constraint to put on a programming environment which evolved from something born in the late 1980's - it makes the assumption that all decisions taken then and up until were correct then and correct relative to any future consequence and thus have no forward consequences - which is definitely not the case). However, I'm not going to commit us to never deprecating things - we do and will continue to do so as needed. Deprecated features will continue to work for as long as it is feasible to do so. > A work around is to let all previous versions work, and put the final > winning > candidate into the dictionary, the others will no longer appear in the > documentation. This solves the problem with the least disruption as it > doesn?t break anyone?s code, but helps to streamline the desired future > syntax for the language. The problem here is that you are assuming it is possible for 'all previous versions to work' from now until some arbitrary point in the future. This just isn't the case - code ages and computer technology continual renews. For example, the 'liveResizing' property no longer does anything. Why? Because Cocoa has no facility to turn liveResizing off. Similarly, things like the 'pixmapId' properties and such used to allow you to do really funky things on certain platforms which it was not possible to continue to make work when we brought the graphics capabilities up to scratch with other environments in 2.7. (Fortunately, long before these 'funky things' stopped working we provided a much better way to have the same effect - i.e. export/import snapshot from object). In terms of syntax / synonym related suggestions - then the situation is much easier. We might deprecate some, just to make it clear what the 'preferred' form is and to discourage further usage. We would never remove them until such a point that we do have a suitable migration tool / method of expressing them which means people can choose to use them, or not, depending on their own personal preference. In terms of current functionality (from a semantics point of view) there are a growing list of 'anomalies' in the bug database which are things which really aren't 'correct' at the moment (and never have been). It would be better for all new code and new users if they were not ladened with the baggage of those things being how they currently are. However, again, we aren't going to change that functionality until we can implement a compatibility mechanism meaning you don't have to update old code. I suspect the environment you have been bitten by in the past was one which was hugely monolithic in terms of implementation. They probably redid the internals with little regard for backwards compatibility (because it wasn't a viable business avenue for them to be concerned about it - or they simply did not know how to) to reduce the engineering burden and to breath new life into it in the modern era (and thus continue to be viable). The difference in LiveCode's case is that whilst the entire refactoring project, widgets and (eventually) Open Language is about turning something monolithic and hugely constrained into something modular and open, we are trying to do it in such a way that will ensure existing code will continue to run. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 11:29:39 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:29:39 +0000 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> I did on mouseUp put "Abc" & 45 & "123(def)" into tTest put value (tTest) end mouseUp tTest results in Abc45123(def) so you are trying to get the value of the result of a function called Abc45123() where you pass a value in a variable called def. At run time, do you have a function Abc45123()? Is there a variable def? If the answer is no to either of these, well there's your problem! :-) Bob S > On Oct 24, 2015, at 17:46 , Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > I am finding that parentheses within strings break value() > > put value ("Abc" & 45 & "123(def)") From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 11:37:14 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:37:14 +0000 Subject: Sending encrypted and authenticated emails In-Reply-To: <562D8DA2.2010103@ahsoftware.net> References: <23031B68-FF46-4D2D-850C-B9FFC77BDD70@iotecdigital.com> <562D8DA2.2010103@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <228139E2-ACF7-4694-8A03-DD3B1EF0B229@iotecdigital.com> Actually, I was playing around with the Exchange connectors, and inadvertently disable the default connector. DOH! Bob S > On Oct 25, 2015, at 19:19 , Mark Wieder wrote: > > On 10/25/2015 05:10 PM, Glen Bojsza wrote: >> Hi Bob, >> >> I tried contacting via bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com but the mail bounced. > > I bounced an email to Bob as well. > No doubt a temporary server glitch, although the Exchange headers in the bounce message are pretty scary. > > 10/25/2015 11:39:19 PM - Remote Server at na01-internal.map.protection.outlook.com (10.58.52.27) returned '451 4.4.0 Primary target IP address responded with: "421 4.3.2 Service not available." Attempted failover to alternate host, but that did not succeed. Either there are no alternate hosts, or delivery failed to all alternate hosts. The last endpoint attempted was 198.24.239.75:1701' > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 11:40:05 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:40:05 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> <3d5e9b222bfe1a914745992b40d7fa61@livecode.com> <562BE94B.5090705@gmail.com> <569A137E-CB0A-41CD-95C0-A79748AF6BC2@sweattechnologies.com> <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <46266ee3949f4f3529dbbdf6c38989f0@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 22:55, JB wrote: > If you do get Open Language what will it do to the > speed? They said LC8 would be good because it > will make it easier for developers to write code in > LC which needed to be and external before. We're still working on the 'foreign function interface' in LCB, so it is not yet as mature as we would like. The benefits of doing it from LCB rather than in C is that you don't have to deal with C compilers, toolchains and IDEs. (This is particularly pertinent if you are wanting to wrap an existing library which you don't have to compile yourself!). > Then after releasing it they said it is slower to use > than a external written in C. Given that most OS APIs do quite heavyweight things execution speed is not really a concern. After all, if you are asking the OS 'please render this PDF page here', then it matters not one iota what the cost of abstraction is to call that OS supplied rendering function - it will always be orders of magnitude less than rasterizing millions of pixels. In most cases, I think you'll generally find that speed of writing code for these kind of things is much more important than the speed of the bit which marshals things appropriately to call the API. Now, that is not to say that speed of LiveCode Builder is not important to us - because it critically is. We are designing the language to try and ensure that it can be compiled and run at speeds which are not too dissimilar to native code in the future - this is why variables are typed, type conversions are more strict and handler calls are 'static' (not determined at runtime) rather than dynamic. Indeed, the plan is that LiveCode Script (as it is now) and LiveCode Builder will eventually sit atop the *same* underlying bytecode-based VM so both can benefit from a native compilation strategy (probably based on LLVM). The *difference* is that the scope of optimization of LiveCode Script will be a great deal less than that for LiveCode Builder due to its dynamic design and use. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 11:48:04 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 08:48:04 -0700 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> References: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > on mouseUp > put "Abc" & 45 & "123(def)" into tTest > put value (tTest) > end mouseUp > > tTest results in Abc45123(def) so you are trying to get the value of the > result of a function called Abc45123() where you pass a value in a variable > called def. At run time, do you have a function Abc45123()? Is there a > variable def? If the answer is no to either of these, well there's your > problem! :-) > But that's not quite what I'm looking at here. put quote & "Abc" & quote & 45 & quote & "123(def)" & quote into tTest gives the type of string I'm looking at. That is, 123(def) is surrounded by quotes *in the string* being fed to value, and therefore should be treated as a literal, shouldn't it? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 12:00:21 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:00:21 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> References: <55DAA1E2-884D-43FF-B94D-C8028F8B0538@pacifier.com> <562BF74C.1000303@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2639a50abd736269ebc50a5906cb9663@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 23:25, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I've worked with OS APIs in Pascal, C, and two xTalks, Tookbook's > OpenTalk scripting language which provides that built-in, and > CompileIt for HyperTalk. This is true - they did. However, they come from a time when almost all OS APIs were procedural, and quite simple. (Also, due to the limitations of what one can represent in 'stringy' languages - of which LiveCode Script is one - such a facility is incredibly fiddly, error prone and difficult to build nice abstractions around). > The one thing I've learned from that is that the language you're using > isn't all that important, because no matter what you're writing in the > OS you're talking to expects C: it uses C data types and structures, > provides tons of great sample source but all in C, and requires that > you think like a C programmer, understanding and managing data in ways > a good xTalk normally insulates from even having to think about - the > difference between a pointer and a handle isn't interesting to most > xTalkers, but can be essential in C. This isn't true. Most of Android's APIs are Java. Most of iOS / Mac's APIs are Objective-C. A lot of Windows functionality is provided through COM - which is an object-based API. Oh, and in the browser (HTML5) world the APIs are JavaScript (another object-based language). > By the time you become fluent enough in C to understand OS APIs well > enough to use them, you've already learned enough to write in it as > well. This is simply not the case - there's a huge chasm between being able to understand C-style APIs and data-structures enough to use them and being able to write C (at least to any degree of use / proficiency). Indeed, given that we are talking about (in many cases) very well defined APIs, which have been (ignoring Win32 and MacClassic ;)) very well designed - you actually don't need to understand much C to use them. All you need to understand is what the values they take and return are, and how they can be appropriately marshalled. Indeed, the goal is that LiveCode Builder will do most of the marshalling for you - so as long as you have enough of an understanding to read the API definitions and map them to LCB forms, you can then use a language which is a great deal more familiar to use them (to be fair we still have a fair bit more work to do on the marshalling front...). > Monte's done an amazing job showing off what the externals SDK can do > for extending LC. It would be great to see more people jump on board > with it. Externals don't really go away with LCB - they just get renamed. All that happens is that LCIDLC which is used to simplify the interface between Engine and External goes away and is replaced by an LCB file containing nothing but foreign handler declarations. Of course, you then get the benefit of being able to mix you LCB and C in any way you choose. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Mon Oct 26 12:09:07 2015 From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:09:07 +0100 Subject: LaunchServicesError error 0 - simulator Message-ID: After installing LC 6.7.8 RC1 and testing an app under it, I now find that opening the same app in LC 6.7.6 and attempting to run it on the simulator 8.2 results in the error ?Unable to start simulation: The operation couldn?t be completed. (LaunchServicesError error 0.)? The app previously ran fine. And it also seems to run ok under 6.7.8 RC1. Anyone come across this before?? If interested some relevant messages from the system.log are below. OSX 10.9.5 cheers Alan ? msgs from system log (abbreviated for readability): 0xb0093000 realpath_parent_no_symlink: Found symlink at destination path ?. 0xb0093000 make_and_check_dest_path: Failed to realpath parent of ?. 0xb0093000 hardlink_copy_hierarchy: Failed to make dest path for file CrosshairSelector.png 0xb0093000 -[MIInstallableBundlePatch applyPatchWithError:]: 82: Could not hardlink copy ?.. 0xb0093000 -[MIInstaller performInstallationWithError:]: Preflight stage failed 0xb0115000 __MobileInstallationInstallForLaunchServices_block_invoke240: Returned error Error Domain=MIInstallerErrorDomain Code=8 "Could not hardlink copy ?? UserInfo=0x7c97b5a0 {LegacyErrorString=PackagePatchFailed, FunctionName=-[MIInstallableBundlePatch applyPatchWithError:] ?.. SourceFileLine=82} CoreSimulatorBridge[1056]: ERROR: MobileInstallationInstallForLaunchServices returned nil ---- From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Oct 26 12:11:58 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:11:58 -0700 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <3DD9D7D0-F7D1-4A65-B164-E446E2B09369@canelasoftware.com> I used to use this script editor full time back in the day. It is really nice to see that you are keeping it going Mark. Thought I might give it a try again and see how it goes. I am getting an answer dialog with what appears to be executionContext values after almost every action I do. I am using GLX_Code19 beta.rev, date: 2015-10-21. Using with LC 6.6.5 on Mac 10.10.5. Any ideas? Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The rapid development, free local storage database, made for LiveCode developers: livecloud.io From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 26 12:36:38 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:36:38 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562E5696.2080908@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-24 18:53, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Two questions: >> >> 1. Do we have a projected timeline for that? > > LiveCode 9. > >> 2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often >> incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing >> basic things like setting the rect of a button? :) (This is why I >> get food thrown at me while speaking at LiveCode conferences) > > That seems like quite an odd 'goal' to have... Agreed. Apparently the combination of both a smiley face and a reference to having food thrown at me wasn't enough to clarify that I wasn't being serious with that wording. I was merely having fun with some of expectations among the readers here for what Open Language might be used for. Personally, I don't mind comma-delimited arguments, and am generally happy with any syntax that let's me get my work done. I'm fine with whatever there's budget to provide to let folks explore novel syntax, even more so with your reminder here that Open Language is among the last of the enhancements in queue, long after being able to play a video file on Linux without crashing and other less glamorous but useful things. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 12:40:33 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:40:33 +0000 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1A4B9A9A-CAFE-4EFF-A3A2-A4CAEDDA003D@iotecdigital.com> The text I copied didn't have the quotes. I'll try again. Bob S On Oct 26, 2015, at 08:48 , Dr. Hawkins > wrote: put quote & "Abc" & quote & 45 & quote & "123(def)" & quote into tTest From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 26 12:43:05 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:43:05 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <42d627ac3dc391a393013e69f3c00829@livecode.com> References: <42d627ac3dc391a393013e69f3c00829@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562E5819.2050603@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > Of course, whilst intellectually interesting, the reality is that > computers have gotten pretty darn good (and continue to get better) at > approximating the outward effects of the human brain in every increasing > areas; which means whether or not their computational models are > equivalent or not is really not that relevant on a day-to-day basis. When we get to a place where Noam Chomsky, Daniel Everett, and Peter Norvig to agree on what the rules should be, I agree that at that time we'll have had plenty of time for the AI community to figure out how to implement those rules. ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 12:49:20 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:49:20 +0000 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Now I get "Abc"45"123(def)" in tTest. I'm not sure what you are expecting, but that is what is getting passed to value(). If you asked me to resolve that, I would probably toss a few errors, not to mention a few brews, back myself. Bob S > On Oct 26, 2015, at 08:48 , Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > But that's not quite what I'm looking at here. > > put quote & "Abc" & quote & 45 & quote & "123(def)" & quote into tTest > > > gives the type of string I'm looking at. That is, 123(def) is surrounded > by quotes *in the string* being fed to value, and therefore should be > treated as a literal, shouldn't it? > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Mon Oct 26 13:05:49 2015 From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:05:49 +0100 Subject: LaunchServicesError error 0 - simulator In-Reply-To: <2FC1EEA3-D796-4BEF-829B-9B17914A2352@hotmail.com> References: <2FC1EEA3-D796-4BEF-829B-9B17914A2352@hotmail.com> Message-ID: Please ignore the last message - this seems to now be resolved. Not totally sure why though? Sorry for the disturbance? :-) cheers Alan On 26 Oct 2015, at 5:09 pm, Alan Stenhouse wrote: > After installing LC 6.7.8 RC1 and testing an app under it, I now find that opening the same app in LC 6.7.6 and attempting to run it on the simulator 8.2 results in the error > > ?Unable to start simulation: The operation couldn?t be completed. (LaunchServicesError error 0.)? > > The app previously ran fine. And it also seems to run ok under 6.7.8 RC1. > > Anyone come across this before?? If interested some relevant messages from the system.log are below. > > OSX 10.9.5 > > cheers > > Alan > > ? > msgs from system log (abbreviated for readability): > > 0xb0093000 realpath_parent_no_symlink: Found symlink at destination path ?. > > 0xb0093000 make_and_check_dest_path: Failed to realpath parent of ?. > > 0xb0093000 hardlink_copy_hierarchy: Failed to make dest path for file CrosshairSelector.png > > 0xb0093000 -[MIInstallableBundlePatch applyPatchWithError:]: 82: Could not hardlink copy ?.. > > 0xb0093000 -[MIInstaller performInstallationWithError:]: Preflight stage failed > > 0xb0115000 __MobileInstallationInstallForLaunchServices_block_invoke240: Returned error Error Domain=MIInstallerErrorDomain Code=8 "Could not hardlink copy ?? UserInfo=0x7c97b5a0 {LegacyErrorString=PackagePatchFailed, FunctionName=-[MIInstallableBundlePatch applyPatchWithError:] ?.. SourceFileLine=82} > > CoreSimulatorBridge[1056]: ERROR: MobileInstallationInstallForLaunchServices returned nil > > ---- > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Oct 26 13:06:03 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:06:03 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <2639a50abd736269ebc50a5906cb9663@livecode.com> References: <2639a50abd736269ebc50a5906cb9663@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562E5D7B.6020001@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-24 23:25, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> I've worked with OS APIs in Pascal, C, and two xTalks, Tookbook's >> OpenTalk scripting language which provides that built-in, and >> CompileIt for HyperTalk. > > This is true - they did. However, they come from a time when almost all > OS APIs were procedural, and quite simple. Agreed, modern OS frameworks require much more study, hence: >> The one thing I've learned from that is that the language you're using >> isn't all that important, because no matter what you're writing in the >> OS you're talking to expects C: it uses C data types and structures, >> provides tons of great sample source but all in C, and requires that >> you think like a C programmer, understanding and managing data in ways >> a good xTalk normally insulates from even having to think about - the >> difference between a pointer and a handle isn't interesting to most >> xTalkers, but can be essential in C. > > This isn't true. Most of Android's APIs are Java. Most of iOS / Mac's > APIs are Objective-C. A lot of Windows functionality is provided through > COM - which is an object-based API. Oh, and in the browser (HTML5) world > the APIs are JavaScript (another object-based language). > >> By the time you become fluent enough in C to understand OS APIs well >> enough to use them, you've already learned enough to write in it as >> well. > > This is simply not the case - there's a huge chasm between being able to > understand C-style APIs and data-structures enough to use them and being > able to write C (at least to any degree of use / proficiency). The gap between understanding low-level data types, structures, frameworks, and APIs and being able to write in the lower-level language they were designed for is smaller than the gap between knowing only xTalk and having to learn to think in terms of low-level data types, structure, frameworks, and APIs. Indeed, that's the point of xTalk. Don't get me wrong, it's cool where Builder can help make that gap a bit smaller. But it'll be there, so I think it's useful to help manage expectations on this. The people who currently write externals will be able to make excellent use of it, but it may become disappointing for anyone who believes Builder alone can substitute for learning the many details beyond the language needed to make good use of it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 13:17:59 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:17:59 +0000 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562E5819.2050603@fourthworld.com> References: <42d627ac3dc391a393013e69f3c00829@livecode.com> <562E5819.2050603@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5278E05A-7C31-421B-938A-D3E21FACF90E@iotecdigital.com> [FAIR WARNING: BLOVIATION TO FOLLOW] Mark Waddingham wrote: > Of course, whilst intellectually interesting, the reality is that > computers have gotten pretty darn good (and continue to get better) at > approximating the outward effects of the human brain in every increasing > areas; which means whether or not their computational models are > equivalent or not is really not that relevant on a day-to-day basis. I proceed on the assumption you are talking about artificial intelligence. If not, read no further. If by "approximating" you really meant "simulating" I'm right there with you. But if you meant something like "approaching functional identity" I couldn't disagree more. I could theoretically express a mathematical model of a kitchen table so intricate that it took into account every variance in color, density, size, weight etc. and the minor vairances of each aspect in an extremely granular three dimensional space. But the mathematical model would never become a table. Maybe I do this using a binary model, or perhaps an analog one would be better. If I could then render the table into some kind of three dimensional image, I might be able to produce a very convincing replica of the table, so that you could not tell the difference with the naked eye. Just don't try to put anything *ON* the table. It's not a table, it is a model of one. A simulation. I am even less convinced that you can reproduce what we call Rational Thought with a computer. It is not really certain what the phenomenon is. I know there is a theory that the massive numbers of synapses in the brain are responsible for producing self awareness, and eventually rational thought, but if so then I cannot regard rational thought itself as anything but an illusion. An accident. A byproduct of biological order on an immense almost unimaginable scale. And if that is what I, devoid of my body am, and you can eventually reproduce me in a laboratory, without all the negative aspects attached to the biological creature I call "me", well then shoot me off into space and open the hatch, because at that point it will be obvious that everything I thought mattered was really only an illusion. Bob S From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Oct 26 14:02:31 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:02:31 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5645BF98-6DDD-41B5-B7F2-9509C77EB87E@all-auctions.com> Hi Mark, I greatly appreciate your response to this topic. > In terms of syntax / synonym related suggestions - then the situation is much easier. We might deprecate some, just to make it clear what the 'preferred' form is and to discourage further usage. We would never remove them until such a point that we do have a suitable migration tool / method of expressing them which means people can choose to use them, or not, depending on their own personal preference. It?s good to hear that you folks are willing to provide a migration tool / method for bringing older code up to date. > Indeed, we have tried and do continue to try our very best not to break people's code as the platform evolves? I?m also glad to hear that the team is mindful of this issue, and weighs those concerns heavily. I understand that computer hardware/software is evolving at a faster rate than ever, such that other companies' changes significantly impact the LiveCode product, such that some past code of the LiveCode codebase simply won?t be able to function anymore in the future. These are mitigating circumstances that are unfortunately beyond our control. This impact however should be minimized for users of LiveCode as much as possible by the team. LiveCode has to retain a solid bedrock of code for it to remain a viable platform for it?s users to accomplish their work. A computer language that evolves too fast without taking that into consideration can become abandoned by it?s users, simply because too many changes make it too difficult for users to keep up with it. That is why ?Standards Committees? were brought into existence for the more formal languages. We don?t want ?Open Language? for LiveCode to suddenly evolve the language from ?English Like? into ?Greek Geek Speak? that only a few people can understand or work with. If LiveCode somehow evolved into something looking more like C++, Objective C, or something worse, users would start looking elsewhere for some other more ?English Like? computer language. I realize I?m probably preaching to the choir here. I?m glad to hear that your team is certainly much more concerned about code changes than the company that totally screwed me, and many other users. Thanks again for your responses, and clarifications. Rick > On Oct 26, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > On 2015-10-26 15:51, Rick Harrison wrote: >> Whenever one deprecates code, it destroys someone?s code somewhere. >> Don?t do it. > > Indeed, we have tried and do continue to try our very best not to break people's code as the platform evolves (even though this is a huge constraint to put on a programming environment which evolved from something born in the late 1980's - it makes the assumption that all decisions taken then and up until were correct then and correct relative to any future consequence and thus have no forward consequences - which is definitely not the case). > > However, I'm not going to commit us to never deprecating things - we do and will continue to do so as needed. Deprecated features will continue to work for as long as it is feasible to do so. > >> A work around is to let all previous versions work, and put the final winning >> candidate into the dictionary, the others will no longer appear in the >> documentation. This solves the problem with the least disruption as it >> doesn?t break anyone?s code, but helps to streamline the desired future >> syntax for the language. > > The problem here is that you are assuming it is possible for 'all previous versions to work' from now until some arbitrary point in the future. This just isn't the case - code ages and computer technology continual renews. > > For example, the 'liveResizing' property no longer does anything. Why? Because Cocoa has no facility to turn liveResizing off. > > Similarly, things like the 'pixmapId' properties and such used to allow you to do really funky things on certain platforms which it was not possible to continue to make work when we brought the graphics capabilities up to scratch with other environments in 2.7. (Fortunately, long before these 'funky things' stopped working we provided a much better way to have the same effect - i.e. export/import snapshot from object). > > In terms of syntax / synonym related suggestions - then the situation is much easier. We might deprecate some, just to make it clear what the 'preferred' form is and to discourage further usage. We would never remove them until such a point that we do have a suitable migration tool / method of expressing them which means people can choose to use them, or not, depending on their own personal preference. > > In terms of current functionality (from a semantics point of view) there are a growing list of 'anomalies' in the bug database which are things which really aren't 'correct' at the moment (and never have been). It would be better for all new code and new users if they were not ladened with the baggage of those things being how they currently are. However, again, we aren't going to change that functionality until we can implement a compatibility mechanism meaning you don't have to update old code. > > I suspect the environment you have been bitten by in the past was one which was hugely monolithic in terms of implementation. They probably redid the internals with little regard for backwards compatibility (because it wasn't a viable business avenue for them to be concerned about it - or they simply did not know how to) to reduce the engineering burden and to breath new life into it in the modern era (and thus continue to be viable). > > The difference in LiveCode's case is that whilst the entire refactoring project, widgets and (eventually) Open Language is about turning something monolithic and hugely constrained into something modular and open, we are trying to do it in such a way that will ensure existing code will continue to run. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 14:08:56 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:08:56 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562E6C38.1090601@gmail.com> On 26/10/15 11:00, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-24 22:47, Mark Wieder wrote: >> On 10/24/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >>> * hilite -> highlight >> >> Actually I filed a bug report on that six years ago. >> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8211 >> >> It got confirmed and ignored. >> I just submitted a pull request. >> Figured I might as well fix this myself. > > There's a slippery slope here (in terms of the current engine parsing > implementation at least) which means that just adding synonyms because > the lack of them 'annoy' a small set of people (and/or because you > can) really isn't something which makes sense. > > It is clear that originally 'hilite' was the chosen spelling for that > operation - it is an 'informal' spelling of 'highlight' which has been > historically used in GUI frameworks (probably because it is a good > deal shorter than 'highlight' - something which those who are fond of > 'grp', 'fld', 'ac, 'cd' etc. should feel at home with ;)) > > There was obviously clearly some contention over whether 'dehilite' or > 'unhilite' should be the antonym - given that even 'dehighlight' nor > 'unhighlight' tend to appear in dictionaries this is probably not > surprising. > > So, clearly someone 'complained' at some point (which is probably why > dehilite and unhilite both exist) and 'highlight' was added. Indeed, > there are actually the following fundamental synonyms for 'hilite' in > the engine: > - highlight > - highlighted > - highlite > - highlited > - hilite > - hilited > > So that is 6 ways to write exactly the same thing. (It gets better in > a moment) > > We now have the following 'compound' property names involving 'hilite': > - hiliteborder > - hilitecolor > - hilitefill > - hiliteicon > - hilitepattern > - hilitepixel > > We also have the following 'compound' property names involving 'hilited': > - hilitedbutton > - hilitedbuttonid > - hilitedbuttonname > - hilitedicon > - hilitedline > - hilitedtext > > There are also the following 'other' properties: > - autohilight > - autohilite > - linkhilitecolor > - multiplehilites > - noncontiguoushilites > - sharedhilite > - showhilite > - threedhilite > - togglehilites > > So, there are (in fact) the following variations on 'hilite' currently > in use in the engine: > - hilite > - highlite > - hilight > - highlight > > Which, if accounted for in synonyms would mean we would end up with (I > believe) 72 keywords if we ignore the 'ed' forms, and 144 if we have > both the preset and past participles. Also, it means that every time > anyone wants to add a property containing 'hilite', they need to add 4 > (maybe 8) variants. This kind of 'blow-up' suggests that there is > something wrong with the approach. > > So, I do think that in this case it would be far better to *choose* > what variant spelling is the normative one and deprecate all the other > synonyms at least until there is a much better mechanism in place for > parsing and resolving synonyms (i.e. when compound properties are > specified as separate words, and synonyms are substitutions done as a > pre-processing step). > > For anything like there has to a policy and my policy has always been > - you choose a single representative for a single concept and you > stick to it. In this case 'hilite' is a perfectly valid word to use > (given its domain - i.e. GUIs); indeed, it is just as valid a choice > for 'highlight' as 'color' is for 'colour' and 'behavior' is for > 'behaviour'. At the end of the day this is a computer language and as > such logical and sensible choices have to be made. (One could also > argue that the problem of synonyms and abbreviations is far better > handled in the script-editing environment... Although nobody ever > seems to agree with me on that one - even though the resulting effect > would be identical for all intents and purposes ;)). > > Now, I'm not saying this won't change - clearly there is a want for > synonyms as a fair few people seem quite fond of them. However, there > needs to be a good mechanism in place to deal with them in the engine > and there currently is not (particularly when considering compound > forms) so caution is hugely advisable. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > +1 As 'hilite' is the de facto standard, whether anyone likes or not, that would seem to be the one to stick with. I feel similarly about all those North Americanisms: speaking as someone who was born in Scotland, spent all his school days in England, and holds a Masters degree (in Linguistics) from a University in the States, although instinctively my lip curls at American spellings, I am well aware that: 1. That is nothing more than my cultural subjectivity. 2. American English IS the dominant form of English in the world right now (and probably for the forseeable future). So "bu**er" [not, that isn't 'butter'] the British spellings and stick with the Americanisms . . . And, quite frankly, if somebody really starts banging on about "British" spellings [i.e. English English spellings] I shall get awfy thrawn anent Scotticisms; qhilka dae nae fowk onie guid at aa! What might be a GOOD IDEA is to work out all the synonyms for each term in LiveCode [no, I will not, I am not THAT nerdy or a*al] and list them against a term: so, for instance, if someone searches for "colour" they will come to a section in the dictionary that basically states 'for "colour" => "color" '. Personally, while I am very proud to be a Scot (mainly because I live and work in Bulgaria: go figure), that does not mean I am anti American usage. Polyglottism is all very well and fine, but it would bring the LiveCode engine to its knees: and I, for one, am not prepared to wait 20 minutes for some script to execute, which currently takes 10 secs, because the thing has to trawl through endless look-up tables of variant spellings and words: a dish made with aubergines is still a dish made with eggplants even if the chef calls them brinjals, melongenes, guinea squash or whatever: so let's all call then 'eggplants' (the American word) and be done with it. Richmond. From alex at tweedly.net Mon Oct 26 14:18:30 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:18:30 +0000 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562E6C38.1090601@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <562E6C38.1090601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562E6E76.8040604@tweedly.net> On 26/10/2015 18:08, Richmond wrote: > > 2. American English IS the dominant form of English in the world right > now (and probably for the forseeable future). > Hmmmm ... true for now, but I wouldn't be surprised if Indian English overtook it over the next 2 to 3 decades. Already the present continuous is becoming common (almost prevalent) where we traditionalists would have used the simple present - at least, I am thinking it is - and that was largely an influence from the Indian sub-continent. -- Alex. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 14:24:51 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:24:51 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <42d627ac3dc391a393013e69f3c00829@livecode.com> References: <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <562BB78A.5080906@fourthworld.com> <562BD537.7020407@gmail.com> <42d627ac3dc391a393013e69f3c00829@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562E6FF3.8030300@gmail.com> On 26/10/15 12:06, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-24 21:00, Richmond wrote: >> Well, what to one person is 'natural language' may not be to another: >> and a "10,000 different, often incompatible and sometimes confusing, >> custom syntax options" does seem to sum that problem up fairly >> effectively. > > Indeed - what is 'natural' to me is different to others. However, > language is about communication between individuals and groups. Each > develops their own idea of 'naturality' in that context. > > I have to say that what people do in the privacy of their own homes > and with friends is entirely up to them and generally of little > interest to me - if they wish to spend a great deal of time developing > weird and wonderful ways of setting the rect of a button then, you > know what, they can go 'knock themselves out' and have as much fun as > they can possibly have with such an endevaour (I certainly won't be > spending any time doing so). > > However, when 'these' people have to interact with others outside of > such small groups, then they will find that *unless* their new > approach fits entirely within the constraints of the group they are > proffering it to and is demonstrably 'better' or gives more benefits > than the existing one, then they will most likely find limited support. > >> It is an unreachable ideal for the plain and simple reason that >> computers do not work in the >> same way as human brains. > > Interesting - I must confess I'm not quite up to date with the latest > frontier research on that subject but certainly last time I did dig > into it that was still an unanswered question. > > If you are absolutely sure about your assertion and have a proof for > it then I suggest you write up a paper right now and submit it for > peer review in an appropriate academic journal - you would quickly > find yourself probably being inline for a sizeable prize or two, and > international renown (and indeed probably have a whole array of job > offers at many prestigious academic and research institutions around > the world). > > (Just for the sake of others, I should explain - asserting that > 'computers do not work in the same way as human brains' means that the > human brain is fundamentally capable of solving a greater set of > problems than modern computers - i.e. the human brain is not a Turing > Machine but something more) No: that is not what is meant. What is meant by the assertion 'computers do not work in the same way as human brains' is that computers can only work in whole numbers (digitally), while brains work in a quite different way. I ma quite sure that computers are capable of solving a greater set of problems than human brains in certain fairly clearly defined areas, and human brains are far better at solving problems in quite different areas. Stating that the assertion 'computers do not work in the same way as human brains' "means that the human brain is fundamentally capable of solving a greater set of problems than modern computers - i.e. the human brain is not a Turing Machine but something more" is rather like using Marxist terminology to define how Market systems work, when there are quite different ways of describing them that are equally, or possibly more, valid. This is defining the capabilities of the human mind in a totally mechanistic framework that ultimately is how computers are defined. To illustrate this point think about yourself smelling a flower. A computer smelling a flower would be capable of telling you all the component chemicals that make up its aroma, and possibly the DNA structure of the flower. When I smell a flower my interpretation of its smell will be heavily affected by the fact that I first smelt a flower of that type at Drumbreddan bay https://www.google.bg/maps/place/Drumbreddan+Bay,+United+Kingdom/@54.7501439,-5.0087908,4792m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x486233eae64a548d:0x906d7bbd8f5d9c93?hl=en And, should you be in the area, well worth a day with a picnic! in 1977 while lying on the grass on a lovely sunny day in late August, having had a swim. It will also be affected by the fact that I had had a horrible adolescent set-to with my Mum about 30 minutes earlier. > > Of course, whilst intellectually interesting, the reality is that > computers have gotten pretty darn good (and continue to get better) at > approximating the outward effects of the human brain in every > increasing areas; which means whether or not their computational > models are equivalent or not is really not that relevant on a > day-to-day basis. That is also true. However, I do think we can say, quite safely, "the human brain is not a Turing Machine but something else." > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 14:27:56 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:27:56 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <0037644a1bf83ce0c927c9e097122d96@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562E70AC.1040809@gmail.com> On 26/10/15 16:17, Roland Huettmann wrote: > Originally I had thought that "Open Language" means to allow LiveCode to > run other scripting languages within it's framework, for example using > Python, or somehow link such languages into LiveCode. > > I started hating "machines" who started "understanding" me and making > assumptions about what I want. Already I hate when at Google confines me to > a certain earthly region and that it became almost impossible or very > difficult to change language. Again I want to become a "free" user of the > Internet. Or at least, there should be a button to switch OFF all > assumption about who I am and what I want. > > I would love LiveCode NOT to understand the uncertainty of me. Computers > should not be behave being as ambiguous as we humans are. That is THE STATEMENT that sums everything up that is odd about the idea of 'Open Language'. Why do I also have a funny feeling that all that any attempt at 'Open Language' would do is serve to close the minds of those working with it??? Richmond. > We love them > because they do what we want them to do, and not the other ways around, and > computer language should not leave much space for interpretation. It > follows a logic, and as long as it does that, it is acceptable. And we love > LiveCode because it allows to express logic in a way which is near to human > language - but will never replace it (I hope at least). > > So, I like Monte's suggestion to have an auto-correct feature to help > correcting wrong input and wrong spelling - the correct one being defined > in the dictionary with as few synonyms as possible, but not force us not to > do something wrong. In case of wrong-doing, the compiler should bark at us, > or the application will misbehave - and we have learnt from doing wrong and > may have a chance to correct ourselves. > > (The new scripting environment of FileMaker 14 is not so bad in > accomplishing some of this. A good place to take lessons from. As much as I > hated the old scripting environment, the new one has nice edges and really > is supportive...) > > The language should grow not in the sense of making things more ambiguous > as they already are, but just advance the capabilities of expression within > limitations. If these limitations would be removed, the river will not find > it's bed to the ocean and spread all over in an uncontrolled way. We would > have big problems understanding each-other, and the effect will be simply > chaotic programming style. > > I do not believe that the need for programming will die in 20 years as > someone here stated. Such prognosis was there already 20 years ago that > soon machines will program themselves. At least I do not want it - or only > as much as boundaries can be clearly defined. We could also state that > logic will not be needed in 20 years, or that we all started stop using our > mental capabilities and hand over our brain to the computer. > > I do not want the computer to switch on the light in my room when I enter, > and know in advance what I am going to do or think or wish - unless I > completely control its behavior. Thinking further, this leads to quite a > philosophical discussion and touches the base of our human existence and > the notion about who we are. > > Think of musical notes. Would Mozart have been able to communicate his > genius without them? Musical notes leave all the space for expression, but > still confine the basic intention into a framework of the limitations of a > language. > > Why do we love LiveCode? Or why would students love it? Because it gives > freedom of expression within a set of limitations - using simple English > expressions. How would a Chinese learn all the intricacies of English > vocabulary? He will not. Keep it simple and "stupid" within it's own set, > as musical notes are not that difficult to learn, but using them is quite > an interesting and different matter. > > When there is a flow of beauty in such language, people will catch on. But > do not make it to be really English. Let us rather focus on thinking what > such typical user might expect when writing a statement. Will the machine > act accordingly? Or will there be unexpected results? And if there are > unexpected results, there must be "work-rounds", and then things become > ugly. > > In this sense I would raise my voice against "Open Language". > > But I am all for more and more beauty in LiveCode, and for ever growing > power accomplishing things that we want the machines to do in the most > logical way possible using LiveCode. And I think the "team" is trying to > just accomplish this - step by step. I admire them. > > People are not against learning as long as there is a fruit to be > gained.And if we do not challenge our brain with ever growing > sophistication then it will also just die away. ) > > Roland > > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 14:30:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:30:02 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562E712A.7010103@gmail.com> On 26/10/15 16:51, Rick Harrison wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Whenever one deprecates code, it destroys someone?s code somewhere. > Don?t do it. > > I had a project I had worked on for 10 years of my life. It encompassed > over 70,000 lines of hard won hand-written code. One day the company > who was producing the language decided to make some major changes > deprecating much of the language. There was no migration tool provided > by the company to make the changes painless. > > I spent yet another year of my life hand coding the changes to get the code > working again. Two years later, the company did the same thing yet again! > I couldn?t afford to go through the process yet again. My code was > basically destroyed by the company by deprecation of the code base. > > A work around is to let all previous versions work, Um: my endless thousands of numToChar statements in my Devawriter Pro will have to be rewritten should I decide to move my code-base from LC 4.5 to LC 7.* or higher. R. > and put the final winning > candidate into the dictionary, the others will no longer appear in the > documentation. This solves the problem with the least disruption as it > doesn?t break anyone?s code, but helps to streamline the desired future > syntax for the language. > > Just my 2 cents for the day. > > Cheers, > > Rick > > > > > >> On Oct 26, 2015, at 5:00 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> So, I do think that in this case it would be far better to *choose* what variant spelling is the normative one and deprecate all the other synonyms at least until there is a much better mechanism in place for parsing and resolving synonyms (i.e. when compound properties are specified as separate words, and synonyms are substitutions done as a pre-processing step). > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 14:34:19 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:34:19 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <5278E05A-7C31-421B-938A-D3E21FACF90E@iotecdigital.com> References: <42d627ac3dc391a393013e69f3c00829@livecode.com> <562E5819.2050603@fourthworld.com> <5278E05A-7C31-421B-938A-D3E21FACF90E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <562E722B.2010401@gmail.com> On 26/10/15 19:17, Bob Sneidar wrote: > [FAIR WARNING: BLOVIATION TO FOLLOW] Wow: never heard of 'Bloviation' before. > > Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> Of course, whilst intellectually interesting, the reality is that >> computers have gotten pretty darn good (and continue to get better) at >> approximating the outward effects of the human brain in every increasing >> areas; which means whether or not their computational models are >> equivalent or not is really not that relevant on a day-to-day basis. > I proceed on the assumption you are talking about artificial intelligence. If not, read no further. > > If by "approximating" you really meant "simulating" I'm right there with you. But if you meant something like "approaching functional identity" I couldn't disagree more. I could theoretically express a mathematical model of a kitchen table so intricate that it took into account every variance in color, density, size, weight etc. and the minor vairances of each aspect in an extremely granular three dimensional space. But the mathematical model would never become a table. Maybe I do this using a binary model, or perhaps an analog one would be better. > > If I could then render the table into some kind of three dimensional image, I might be able to produce a very convincing replica of the table, so that you could not tell the difference with the naked eye. Just don't try to put anything *ON* the table. It's not a table, it is a model of one. A simulation. > > I am even less convinced that you can reproduce what we call Rational Thought with a computer. It is not really certain what the phenomenon is. I know there is a theory that the massive numbers of synapses in the brain are responsible for producing self awareness, and eventually rational thought, but if so then I cannot regard rational thought itself as anything but an illusion. An accident. A byproduct of biological order on an immense almost unimaginable scale. > > And if that is what I, devoid of my body am, and you can eventually reproduce me in a laboratory, without all the negative aspects attached to the biological creature I call "me", well then shoot me off into space and open the hatch, because at that point it will be obvious that everything I thought mattered was really only an illusion. > > Bob S > > Well said, that man; and, not as nearly as pompous had I attempted it :P Richmond. From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 14:38:25 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:38:25 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562E712A.7010103@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <562E712A.7010103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <69d5065df146fcb881d154005252fe9c@livecode.com> On 2015-10-26 19:30, Richmond wrote: > Um: my endless thousands of numToChar statements in my Devawriter Pro > will have to > be rewritten should I decide to move my code-base from LC 4.5 to LC > 7.* or higher. I'm not sure that is necessarily true. I believe you use 'unicodeText' in your code-base, and numToChar() when 'useUnicode' is true. This combination of things should work as it did before and will continue to do so (if it doesn't then let me know and we'll take a look to advise - as it could be there is a bug lurking there). However, if you want to take advantage of the 'transparent' Unicodeness of 7+, then you will need to change the uses of 'unicodeText' to 'text' and 'numToChar' to 'numToCodepoint'. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 26 14:55:23 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:55:23 -0500 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562E712A.7010103@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <562E712A.7010103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562E771B.7020709@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/26/2015 1:30 PM, Richmond wrote: > Um: my endless thousands of numToChar statements in my Devawriter Pro > will have to > be rewritten should I decide to move my code-base from LC 4.5 to LC 7.* > or higher. Not necessarily, numToChar and charToNum still work. They are discouraged now, but they still function. Did you try it? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 15:03:35 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 21:03:35 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562E771B.7020709@hyperactivesw.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <562E712A.7010103@gmail.com> <562E771B.7020709@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <562E7907.8060200@gmail.com> On 26/10/15 20:55, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/26/2015 1:30 PM, Richmond wrote: >> Um: my endless thousands of numToChar statements in my Devawriter Pro >> will have to >> be rewritten should I decide to move my code-base from LC 4.5 to LC 7.* >> or higher. > > Not necessarily, numToChar and charToNum still work. They are > discouraged now, but they still function. Did you try it? > No, I didn't, and should I decide to move my codebase I am sure I can automate those changes relatively painlessly: I just mentioned them to make the point about what a 'bother' lack of backwards compatibility can be. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 15:07:23 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 21:07:23 +0200 Subject: [OT] GUI templates Message-ID: <562E79EB.2080909@gmail.com> https://pixelbuddha.net/freebies/tag/ui-kits look like fun. Richmond. From mark at livecode.com Mon Oct 26 15:08:18 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:08:18 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-24 22:07, Geoff Canyon wrote: > This is the main thing I have been looking forward to for the past > several > years. The goal was to allow the addition of truly new syntax and > functionality to the language. I really wanted this, and widgets is > what it > has turned into. Not that widgets aren't a good thing, but I'd really > like > to be able to use: > repeat for each line L in someText with index i > > apply myFunction to X until the value converges > > apply (+1) to every item of myList where it mod 2 = 1 > > ...and many, many more. No - widgets is not what it has turned into. Widgets are entirely orthogonal - they about extending the controls you can use in LiveCode, not the syntax (after all having lots of nice syntax is great, but if you don't have the things you can instruct to do things with it, then it perhaps isn't very useful). Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 26 15:26:05 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:26:05 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <29D88971-E08C-455B-881B-2D58B380E8B9@sweattechnologies.com> > On 27 Oct 2015, at 1:51 am, Rick Harrison wrote: > > A work around is to let all previous versions work, and put the final winning > candidate into the dictionary, the others will no longer appear in the > documentation. This solves the problem with the least disruption as it > doesn?t break anyone?s code, but helps to streamline the desired future > syntax for the language. Deprecation notices in the IDE would be nice. Both inline in the script editor and in some big list somewhere whenever we open a stack. From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 16:25:03 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:25:03 -0700 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Now I get "Abc"45"123(def)" in tTest. I'm not sure what you are expecting, > but that is what is getting passed to value(). If you asked me to resolve > that, I would probably toss a few errors, not to mention a few brews, back > myself. > I seem to have mis-parsed that myself. There is a custom property (call it theProp) with a value like "SELECT foo FROM " & tableName & " WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat');" So those quotes and & are in the string to be evaluated. My understanding of parsing is that the first piece should evaluate to SELECT foo FROM the second to SELECT foo FROM and the third to WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat'); and when concatenated produce a string of SELECT foo FROM theRealTableName WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat'); That is, I should get three strings, the first and last literals, and the middle from evaluation of the variable name, which in turn should concatenate by the &. Instead, though, the quotation marks in the third string are ignored, and instead of treating it as as string literal, an attempt is made to evaluate it. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 26 17:29:51 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:29:51 -0500 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <562E9B4F.8060309@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/26/2015 3:25 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > There is a custom property (call it theProp) with a value like > > "SELECT foo FROM " & tableName & " WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat');" > > > > So those quotes and & are in the string to be evaluated. > > My understanding of parsing is that the first piece should evaluate to > > SELECT foo FROM > > > the second to > > SELECT foo FROM > > > and the third to > > WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat'); > > > and when concatenated produce a string of > > SELECT foo FROM theRealTableName WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat'); > > That is, I should get three strings, the first and last literals, and the > middle from evaluation of the variable name, which in turn should > concatenate by the &. > > Instead, though, the quotation marks in the third string are ignored, and > instead of treating it as as string literal, an attempt is made to evaluate > it. I'd use the merge command here. Make a custom property like this: SELECT foo FROM [[theRealTableName]] WHERE [[compare1]] AND [[compare2]]; In the script: put "(bar > 7)" into compare1 put "(animal<>'cat')" into compare2 put "realName" into theRealTableName put merge(the cProp of me) into tCmd revExecuteSQL tID,tCmd You may need to add some quotation marks somewhere in there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Oct 26 17:36:56 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:36:56 -0500 Subject: show/hide or open/close stack. What is good practice? In-Reply-To: <005601d10fcb$53faad10$fbf00730$@kestner.de> References: <005601d10fcb$53faad10$fbf00730$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <562E9CF8.8060402@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/26/2015 3:50 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > if I have stacks, which are frequently shown, like dialog windows, what is > good practice. Open once and only show/hide, when using? Or should you close > those kind of stacks always and toplevel/modal them again every time when > needed? When I need to change anything in those stacks on the fly, like > button labels, I open them only once and hide/show them when needed. > > Is this just a personal preference or is there a guideline on "how to" in > LC? It's mostly personal preference, but it depends on whether the stacks are substacks or not. Substacks are always in RAM whether they are open or not, so it doesn't matter whether you close them or hide them. Independent stacks take up RAM so if they are no longer needed I usually close and delete them. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 26 18:27:20 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:27:20 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 27 Oct 2015, at 6:08 am, Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> repeat for each line L in someText with index i >> apply myFunction to X until the value converges >> apply (+1) to every item of myList where it mod 2 = 1 >> ...and many, many more. > > No - widgets is not what it has turned into. Widgets are entirely orthogonal - they about extending the controls you can use in LiveCode, not the syntax (after all having lots of nice syntax is great, but if you don't have the things you can instruct to do things with it, then it perhaps isn't very useful). You seem to have answered all the questions apart from the control structure ones. As far as gentle goes the good news is I?ve managed to find the control structures in grammar.g? The bad news is I loose the trail once I get to types.g? It?s all very interesting? a compiler for a language for making compilers that is compiling a language that is a compiler? Cheers Monte From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Oct 26 19:27:23 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:27:23 +0000 Subject: [OT] SMTP Diagnostic Tool Message-ID: Looks like someone beat me to it. http://www.socketlabs.com/smtp-server-connection-diagnostics-tool/ Bob S From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Oct 26 22:07:58 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:07:58 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562EDC7E.8000300@ahsoftware.net> Mark- Well. *This* certainly seems to have hit a nerve. I would be fine with having everything be "hilite". Or with everything being "highlight". Or with everything being "blxxqvy". The point of the original bug report was that there's no consistency in the language. Sometimes you can use the "highlight" form and sometimes you have to use the "hilite" form. The problem is trying to remember which is which. So that's what my pull request fixes. I agree with what you're saying about the proliferation of synonyms. I'm not wild about most of the other synonyms in the language either... "cd", "fld", etc (although I'd hate to give up "loc" and "rect") But right now we're trying to have it both ways. To my eye the "hilite" form looks cutesy and unprofessional, but I do understand developers are lazy and don't like typing, so I'd be fine with that. It's in the documentation already. But really... let's move in the direction of some consistency. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Oct 26 23:42:01 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:42:01 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562EDC7E.8000300@ahsoftware.net> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <562EDC7E.8000300@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <4A882C77-A08A-41B5-BCFE-01BF2E97D62C@sweattechnologies.com> Well there?s two ways to look at this. Either we agree that hilite was a mistake. Implement highlight everywhere then deprecate hilite. Or we agree that highlight was a mistake and we deprecate the small number of uses of that. When I say deprecate I just mean making a note in the dictionary at this stage. Either way we are on a slippery slope here. Will we add synonyms for every instance of Rect to give us Rectangle. Personally I?d be relatively happy for the development engine to quietly fix instances of synonym use in the background when a script is compiled. Doing that you could drop all synonyms without too many issues. I mean is there any logical reason we need to be able to refer to a folder with the folder, the defaultFolder and the directory? Or create a folder using create folder, create directory, new folder or new directory??? I?m sure at some point someone decided that they could import projects from other platforms by creating all these synonyms. A few seconds thought on that and they might have realised that parsing the scripts to change them to use the common syntax would have been much cleaner. Cheers Monte > On 27 Oct 2015, at 1:07 pm, Mark Wieder wrote: > > Mark- > > Well. *This* certainly seems to have hit a nerve. > > I would be fine with having everything be "hilite". Or with everything being "highlight". Or with everything being "blxxqvy". The point of the original bug report was that there's no consistency in the language. Sometimes you can use the "highlight" form and sometimes you have to use the "hilite" form. The problem is trying to remember which is which. > > So that's what my pull request fixes. > > I agree with what you're saying about the proliferation of synonyms. I'm not wild about most of the other synonyms in the language either... "cd", "fld", etc (although I'd hate to give up "loc" and "rect") But right now we're trying to have it both ways. To my eye the "hilite" form looks cutesy and unprofessional, but I do understand developers are lazy and don't like typing, so I'd be fine with that. It's in the documentation already. > > But really... let's move in the direction of some consistency. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 02:21:52 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:21:52 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562EDC7E.8000300@ahsoftware.net> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <562EDC7E.8000300@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <562F1800.4020900@gmail.com> On 27/10/15 04:07, Mark Wieder wrote: > Mark- > > Well. *This* certainly seems to have hit a nerve. > > I would be fine with having everything be "hilite". Or with everything > being "highlight". Or with everything being "blxxqvy". The point of > the original bug report was that there's no consistency in the > language. Sometimes you can use the "highlight" form and sometimes you > have to use the "hilite" form. The problem is trying to remember which > is which. > > So that's what my pull request fixes. > > I agree with what you're saying about the proliferation of synonyms. > I'm not wild about most of the other synonyms in the language > either... "cd", "fld", etc (although I'd hate to give up "loc" and > "rect") But right now we're trying to have it both ways. To my eye the > "hilite" form looks cutesy and unprofessional, but I do understand > developers are lazy and don't like typing, so I'd be fine with that. > It's in the documentation already. > > But really... let's move in the direction of some consistency. > +1 Richmond. From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Oct 27 03:08:10 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:08:10 +0100 Subject: AW: show/hide or open/close stack. What is good practice? In-Reply-To: <562E9CF8.8060402@hyperactivesw.com> References: <005601d10fcb$53faad10$fbf00730$@kestner.de> <562E9CF8.8060402@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <001a01d11086$3e00b1b0$ba021510$@kestner.de> Hi Jacque, thanks for your experience, good to know. Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von J. Landman Gay Gesendet: Montag, 26. Oktober 2015 22:37 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: show/hide or open/close stack. What is good practice? On 10/26/2015 3:50 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > if I have stacks, which are frequently shown, like dialog windows, > what is good practice. Open once and only show/hide, when using? Or > should you close those kind of stacks always and toplevel/modal them > again every time when needed? When I need to change anything in those > stacks on the fly, like button labels, I open them only once and hide/show them when needed. > > Is this just a personal preference or is there a guideline on "how to" > in LC? It's mostly personal preference, but it depends on whether the stacks are substacks or not. Substacks are always in RAM whether they are open or not, so it doesn't matter whether you close them or hide them. Independent stacks take up RAM so if they are no longer needed I usually close and delete them. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 04:42:08 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:42:08 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562E5D7B.6020001@fourthworld.com> References: <2639a50abd736269ebc50a5906cb9663@livecode.com> <562E5D7B.6020001@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-26 18:06, Richard Gaskin wrote: > The gap between understanding low-level data types, structures, > frameworks, and APIs and being able to write in the lower-level > language they were designed for is smaller than the gap between > knowing only xTalk and having to learn to think in terms of low-level > data types, structure, frameworks, and APIs. I honestly don't think that is actually true anymore (but what would I know, I've only been working with them, and with LiveCode for over a decade ;)). OS APIs are much higher level than they used to be - indeed, the number of 'type' concepts you tend to need to use them has diminished greatly - mainly because OS vendors now see the need that they need to be 'mappable' from any language. Indeed, once someone has written the 'bindings' which describe how the OS APIs can be leveraged from another language - anyone who comes along subsequently doesn't even need to concern themselves with how they were originally defined. These 'type concepts' actually do very easily map in an xTalk-like way as long as you are willing to drop the 'stringyness' (this is mainly because many OS APIs return what you could call 'transient objects' which need to be manipulated - you can't think in the traditional xTalk 'stringy' way to work with these in a simple way). One of the principal differences between LiveCode Script and LiveCode Builder is that LiveCode Script tries very hard to be a 'typeless' language (okay so it has arrays so it isn't really), whereas LiveCode Builder doesn't - it has dynamically typed semantics which are strictly enforced. Now, the amusing thing is that LiveCode Script has never hidden you from typing (nor has HyperTalk, or any of the others) - you still have to think at times... Hmmm - is this a number, is this a string, is this 'true' or 'false', is this an array (after all you can't add 1 to a variable which contains "foo"). Indeed, there is a huge subtlety in terms of typing which actually defines the current difference - LiveCode Script will try its best to match an input argument's value (type-wise) to the context it is being used in (this is essentially 'typelessness' save for the fact that MetaTalk ceased to be typeless when arrays were added). LiveCode Builder, on the other hand, will require you to tell it that you want to convert an input argument's value to (if they don't explicitly match). > Indeed, that's the point of xTalk. Is it? I suspect you have your own ideas about what 'the point of an xTalk' is (which doesn't appear to include syntax, based on many of your comments recently and over the years), and a lot of other people in the community will have their own ideas. The point is that there are many many facets which make LiveCode (Script) what it is and all of these need to be preserved as most people will depend on a subset of them (I'm not talking about features here - I'm talking about the ideas that underpin the language). Here's a first stab at a list (again, I'm not even talking about the actual objects you can create, or the functionality you can access, nor the IDE): - English-like syntax which minimizes symbols and attempts to maximize readability - Contextual typing (a polite way to say almost typeless but 'polluted' with arrays ;)) - Automatic mutability ('put x after tString', automatically makes tString something which can be appended to) - The ability to manipulate parts of an object easily, in both evaluation and assignment contexts (chunk expressions) - Named hierarchical objects manipulatable at runtime (create field / delete field etc.) - The ability to attach scripts to objects which automatically connect signals (on mouseUp actually directly specified at the target level) - Gated dynamism (do, value - explicit access to runtime compilation and execution under well defined terms) Then, of course, if you step back from the language you get to also consider: - Edit / Run live (no stop-the-world compile cycle) - Integrated editing environment - Domain specific language for manipulating UIs - Cross-platform Overall there is something about LiveCode Script (and the xTalks which have gone before) which does seem to make writing code easier (if there wasn't, I wouldn't be here) - however, quantifying that into actually fundamental aspects of it is not an easy task. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 04:45:12 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:45:12 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5278E05A-7C31-421B-938A-D3E21FACF90E@iotecdigital.com> References: <42d627ac3dc391a393013e69f3c00829@livecode.com> <562E5819.2050603@fourthworld.com> <5278E05A-7C31-421B-938A-D3E21FACF90E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <087a24cb9b57284c9df07ed77021cd64@livecode.com> On 2015-10-26 18:17, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I proceed on the assumption you are talking about artificial > intelligence. If not, read no further. I wasn't. I was talking from an 'engineering pragmatism' point of view :) My iPhone's keyboard isn't sentient, yet it still manages a reasonable approximation to 'guess' what I'm trying to type. Amazon's database isn't sentient, yet it still manages to suggest reasonable things based on its 'knowledge' of what I've bought before. These are just algorithms running over input data of course, but they make a jolly good job of approximating a task which (at first sight) might appear to be something which requires some sort of human behind them to 'understand' what is going on. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 04:47:03 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:47:03 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> Message-ID: <367754dd15e6e82cd1d685e2bbd7338a@livecode.com> On 2015-10-26 23:27, Monte Goulding wrote: > You seem to have answered all the questions apart from the control > structure ones. Indeed - my train had arrived at my destination and I didn't have time to respond to the next post. > As far as gentle goes the good news is I?ve managed to find the > control structures in grammar.g? The bad news is I loose the trail > once I get to types.g? Post a topic on the forums about 'switch' - we need to have a discussion about what sort of 'switch' should actually be implemented. C-style switches are horrendous and really have no place in a 'higher-level' language in my point of view. I've seen that control structure done better in virtually every other programming language I've ever used. > It?s all very interesting? a compiler for a language for making > compilers that is compiling a language that is a compiler? It's turtles all the way down... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 04:49:28 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:49:28 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562E5696.2080908@fourthworld.com> References: <562E5696.2080908@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> On 2015-10-26 17:36, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I was merely having fun with some of expectations among the readers > here for what Open Language might be used for. Well, I'm glad you are having fun :P > Personally, I don't mind comma-delimited arguments, and am generally > happy with any syntax that let's me get my work done. Interesting - I suspect that other people might not be quite so 'on board' with your attitude towards the importance of English-like syntax to LiveCode (and xTalks in general). > I'm fine with whatever there's budget to provide to let folks explore > novel syntax, even more so with your reminder here that Open Language > is among the last of the enhancements in queue, long after being able > to play a video file on Linux without crashing and other less > glamorous but useful things. Unfortunately, language and features are intertwined. You can't have features without a way to access them, and a language with no features is useless. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 04:53:48 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:53:48 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-25 00:05, Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Monte Goulding > > wrote: ... >> repeat for each line tLine in tText with counter tCounter >> repeat for 10 with counter tCounter >> repeat with tIndex = 1 to 10 step 2 with counter tCounter >> repeat while condition with counter tCounter >> repeat forever with counter tCounter ... >> > > The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would > be > that: > > 1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something like > this. That is precisely the point. > 2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my "index" > version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with > that. > (or both). Since the two syntaxes being proposed don't appear to conflict in any way, people would be free to use either as they see fit. Even if they did conflict, they would be able to choose on a per-script basis, or even on a per-line basis by using a single disambiguation token. > 3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving critical > mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine > directly. It wouldn't ever need to get 'put in the engine' - Open Language will allow a degree of modularity which cannot currently be achieved. It is the last piece of the puzzle to make LiveCode truly extensible. Indeed, what the 'engine' eventually becomes under this plan is just the glue which does all the heavy-lifting to unify all the language-defining modules together which an application uses. Now, of course, in such a scenario there would be a need for the idea of 'Standard LiveCode' - which is essentially what 'elevating to the engine' would become. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Oct 27 04:57:17 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:57:17 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <367754dd15e6e82cd1d685e2bbd7338a@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <367754dd15e6e82cd1d685e2bbd7338a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <96045B2A-65E4-4852-BFA2-BD924340C11F@sweattechnologies.com> > On 27 Oct 2015, at 7:47 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > On 2015-10-26 23:27, Monte Goulding wrote: >> You seem to have answered all the questions apart from the control >> structure ones. > > Indeed - my train had arrived at my destination and I didn't have time to respond to the next post. You did it again? is it a metaphorical train ;-) > >> As far as gentle goes the good news is I?ve managed to find the >> control structures in grammar.g? The bad news is I loose the trail >> once I get to types.g? > > Post a topic on the forums about 'switch' - we need to have a discussion about what sort of 'switch' should actually be implemented. C-style switches are horrendous and really have no place in a 'higher-level' language in my point of view. I've seen that control structure done better in virtually every other programming language I've ever used. I actually did that a few weeks back asking if it would be implemented. I?m not really expecting I?ll be able to get my head around gentle enough in the time I can allocate to FOSS contributions to be much more than a hindrance but I?m happy to discuss it ;-) Cheers Monte From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Oct 27 04:59:56 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:59:56 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <71D3E21F-EB89-4B44-B18E-999AB67644AF@sweattechnologies.com> > On 27 Oct 2015, at 7:53 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > Since the two syntaxes being proposed don't appear to conflict in any way, people would be free to use either as they see fit. Oh so custom control structures will be supported? cool From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 05:02:59 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:02:59 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <7fd28b0d63a5b636709c3332e055c524@livecode.com> On 2015-10-25 00:19, Monte Goulding wrote: > OK, well we can let Mark Waddingham comment on whether I?m right in > that control structures are unlikely targets for open language or not. > It seems quite unlikely to me as it?s significantly more complicated > than commands. I?m not saying it?s not possible the ROI would be > terrible. As in almost 0 return for a reasonably heavy investment? Initially, Open Language will allow you to define: - commands - expressions - iterators This is the range of things which the 'custom' LiveCode Builder syntax is built upon (which means I know it definitely works!). Commands are what they you would imagine - they are a sequence of tokens interspersed with expressions: 'put' 'after' Expressions fall into three categories. First we have 'prefix operators': 'word' 'of' Then we have postfix operators: 'is' 'a' 'number' Then we have infix operators: 'is' 'less' 'than' Then we have radical expressions: 'the' 'empty' 'string' Note that in all three 'operator' cases, you can also have expressions in-between the tokens: 'is' 'between' 'and' The thing which defines what class of operator it is is determined by whether there is an expression on the left, right or both. Iterators are essentially extensions to 'repeat': 'repeat' 'for' 'each' 'char' 'in' Basically, we'll extend the reach of Open Language in terms of what you can create in the host language with it over time. Already, implementing the initial LiveCode Builder compiler has taught me that there need to be a greater set of patterns such as property accesses, chunks etc. - defining them at the low level 'syntax clause' point is a little too much work (although a great deal less then writing explicit C code as an ad-hoc parser in the engine ;)). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 05:05:49 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:05:49 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <96045B2A-65E4-4852-BFA2-BD924340C11F@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <367754dd15e6e82cd1d685e2bbd7338a@livecode.com> <96045B2A-65E4-4852-BFA2-BD924340C11F@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <8dc5bcc5b826a78c6273c3199363f38a@livecode.com> On 2015-10-27 09:57, Monte Goulding wrote: >> Indeed - my train had arrived at my destination and I didn't have time >> to respond to the next post. > > You did it again? is it a metaphorical train ;-) No, this one was definitely a physical train... Of course, that is assuming that the entire universe isn't just an illusion perpetrated by my non-Turing Machine mind ;) > I actually did that a few weeks back asking if it would be > implemented. I?m not really expecting I?ll be able to get my head > around gentle enough in the time I can allocate to FOSS contributions > to be much more than a hindrance but I?m happy to discuss it ;-) Hehe - ah - I think I remember that - sorry... I suspect it got lost amongst a few other things. Switch is actually really easy to implement - the hardest part is working out what sort it should be. I'll see if I can collate some various examples from different languages so we can see what would work best. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 05:11:09 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:11:09 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562E70AC.1040809@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <0037644a1bf83ce0c927c9e097122d96@livecode.com> <562E70AC.1040809@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-26 19:27, Richmond wrote: >> I would love LiveCode NOT to understand the uncertainty of me. >> Computers >> should not be behave being as ambiguous as we humans are. Quite - nor should programming languages be ambiguous. Indeed, for them to be useful at all they need to be entirely unambiguous. Open Language is the name of a parsing technology that we have developed which allows a reasonable degree of flexibility in defining 'natural language like' grammars (heavily based on abstracting the patterns present in existing xTalks) in a way which means that there requires no central co-ordination of the grammar. Any ambiguities which occur due to using two sets of definitions from two disparate parties who never talk to each other is easily resolved by either preferring one set of definitions over the other, or marking one token of a line which uses an ambiguous phrase with a disambiguating mark. There is nothing 'artificially intelligent' about Open Language - just perhaps a bit of 'artificial competence' and 'artificial sense'. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 05:19:03 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:19:03 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BCB44.3030103@fourthworld.com> References: <562BCB44.3030103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <99b76455249d89a96eb3922c62708140@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 20:17, Richard Gaskin wrote: > This is part of the reason I raised this thread. We've seen some > rather broadly varying ideas about what Open Language means, but I > share your concerns and I'm not sure that's what Mark intended, even > if some are excited at the prospect. I was long concerned about what would happen if the ability to add syntax was 'opened up' to all. However I ceased being concerned about it after I worked out how it could be done. People should be free to experiment and develop their own syntax for their own ends - why should we restrict that? As it stands LiveCode syntax is *heavily* based around the idea of it being a domain-specific language for GUI development. However, I think the ideas present within LiveCode (and predecessor xTalks) have far far greater applicability than that. At the end of the day, any syntax extensions will be under heavy constraint due to the existing syntactic forms which exist in the engine already and in terms of what potential users will expect. Market forces, will in the end, sort out the 'good' from the 'bad' - and as Geoff Canyon pointed out even if a 'bad' syntax extension becomes popular - it will only do so because it provides facilities that no-one else has provided and are important... In which case it might be 'distasteful' to use, but pragmatically that doesn't matter if it gets the job done. > I believe the core of the issue is that to date all xTalks have > required comma-delimited arguments for custom commands. The good news > is that this is pretty much how most programming languages work, so > it's not particularly onerous. But the bad news is that it means that > the libraries we share bear no relationship syntactically with the > build-in commands. Indeed - it has been a long standing problem. Something which has been often opined about by a great many people within our community (including yourself, I believe, at certain points - although I might be wrong on that ;)). However, I should perhaps point out that Open Language evolved from me trying to work out how to actually service the great many feature requests we get for adding syntax. The current implementation of the parser in the engine, whilst it works, is incredibly difficult to modify. This not only means that it is not at all straightforward to add English-like syntax to new features, but also that it is far too expensive (time-wise) to experiment with new syntactic ideas. Unfortunately, syntax is one of those things that you really do need to try before you buy - thought experiments really don't cut it in many cases. > I *believe* (emphasis added to note that I'd he happy to be corrected > by Mr. Waddingham if this isn't correct) that Open Language was > proposed primarily (perhaps only) to allow library scripters to define > syntax that fits in more closely with the flavor of the rest of the > language. > > For example, today I might write: > > CreateDocument "Window Title", tFilePath > > ...but with Open Language I could write: > > create document titled "Window Title" using file tFilePath > > Mr. Waddingham, is that correct? Pretty much. Syntax is about patterns. There are already a great many patterns which exist in LiveCode Script, even if they are not directly apparant. > > > That said, I admit I'm rather enamored of this request: > That would be probably about a 8 line definition file to implement when we have Open Language - I'll look forward to making it available on April 1st the year Open Language arrives :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 05:20:47 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:20:47 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BB4F5.2010007@fourthworld.com> References: <562BB4F5.2010007@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <17e2b46089d84edf2d167cbe8e7dd263@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 18:42, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Colin Holgate wrote: >> I found this definition of open language, which might be on the right >> lines too: >> >> http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766 > > A good reminder for us all to keep our ACM memberships current. > > But alas mine has lapsed, and before I spend US$15 to download the > 2001 article to see if it matches what LiveCode Ltd. proposed for > their system in 2013, I'm hoping we might find some definition > specific to their plans not behind a paywall. Given that I've never read that article, I suspect that US$15 will be wasted (I can't really infer from the abstract what that article is about). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Oct 27 05:22:55 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:22:55 +1100 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <7fd28b0d63a5b636709c3332e055c524@livecode.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> <7fd28b0d63a5b636709c3332e055c524@livecode.com> Message-ID: <009AAD82-110F-44F5-9F9C-4DCA332ABC96@sweattechnologies.com> Really interesting post & I happily stand corrected on the scope of what you are doing. > On 27 Oct 2015, at 8:02 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > Note that in all three 'operator' cases, you can also have expressions in-between the tokens: > 'is' 'between' 'and' Out of interest if I implement the above syntax but only for expressions that evaluate to a number can someone else implement it for expressions that evaluate to strings or some other thing. Can the be used together by some other user that doesn?t care about the implementation detail? Cheers Monte From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 05:50:34 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:50:34 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BD83B.5060608@fourthworld.com> References: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> <562BD83B.5060608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-24 21:12, Richard Gaskin wrote: > My favorite example is the "export snapshot" command - even with the > Dictionary guidance we all need to turn to for that no matter how many > times we've used it, it's so complex with such a combinatorial > explosion of options that I defy anyone to make a readable BNF for it. > :) The 'export snapshot' command is rather unfortunate. It was augmented by me to add the ability to snapshot an object directly (rather than the screen) and because (to be blunt) the actual code for the syntax of the export command was always a complete 'botched' job I did the best that I was able to do. Indeed, I'd defy anyone to make truly accurate BNF for *any* of the language's current syntax - this is actually a tremendous problem which limits a great deal. The parser is very poorly implemented in this regard. It was never done with any amount of rigour, nor following any standard structured techniques for such things (it dates back from long before my tenure). Indeed, having spent many years studying programming language design and implementation before I joined RunRev (as it was then), when I actually saw how it was implemented to say I was 'surprised' would be an understatement. (It is extremely important to understand that perturbing the parsing code in any way runs the risk of breaking existing scripts... Precisely because it was never written to a high enough specification standard). Now, that being said, it obviously does work - and given the amount of code out there which is run through its internals the outward effects of however it is implemented internally is not necessarily affected. What is hugely affected though are things which are incredibly important if you want to do describe, extend or do any 'clever' processing of the language. The problem is that because the parser is so lax, and almost impossible to pin down to a tight specification of what it recognizes, the actual definition of what LiveCode Script currently is syntax-wise, is entirely defined by the implementation of the parser. After the refactor work we did for 7, however, we can actually finally do something to clean this up. We have 'unhooked' the execution of parsed commands from the representation of the parsed commands in memory, and thus this means that it will make it possible to implement a tool which maps an existing parsed script to a cleaner syntax. Before anyone gets concerned, I'm not proposing anything drastic here at all. Each piece of syntax the current engine understands will have a representative form chosen which will then be used for the 'unparsing'. The original parser would be used to compile each line, and then the result put through a reverse operation to generate string matching a normalized form in each case. For example, one of my favourite examples of the unwieldy parser is 'accept connections' as you can do this: accept accept accept accept 1000 with empty "callbackMessage" The (normalized) representative form would be: accept connections on port 1000 with message "callbackMessage" If the syntax of the language can be pinned down to a simple variant of Backus-Naur Form (BNF) then a great deal of things become a great deal easier. > For example, if "export snapshot" were an R command it might look > something like: ... > ...gives you a gorgeous scatter plot with useful x- and y-axis labels > and well-placed tick marks, without having to specify anything; you > can specify as much or as little as you like with most commands and > expect a useful result. That's great. I'm glad R does things like that - I'm sure it has developed its ideas and forms as appropriate to its explicit very restricted domain (and a great great deal more restricted than LiveCode). > I'm not proposing LiveCode switch to name-value pair arguments, but in > some cases it would be a nice option, "export snapshot" being among > them. Well it is a possibility - but, like adding 'dot' notation - I have to ask is that the right thing for LiveCode (xTalks)... Surely it would be better to work out how the English-like nature is best preserved, and implement a system which means it can be done easily... Oh wait - that's the point of Open Language :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 05:57:06 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:57:06 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562EDC7E.8000300@ahsoftware.net> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <562EDC7E.8000300@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On 2015-10-27 03:07, Mark Wieder wrote: > Well. *This* certainly seems to have hit a nerve. Indeed - perhaps a little bit - but honestly not with you! Your pull request is a good one - it is minimal, focused and has tests... Tests the writing of which uncovered two bugs which need to be fixed in the engine. As PRs go, I couldn't really ask for much more. However, the problem is that it attempts to 'fix' something which I think needs a little more thought about what the policy should be before it is 'fixed' - as it sets a precedent, the potential consequences of which are a combinatorial explosion in keywords. > I would be fine with having everything be "hilite". Or with everything > being "highlight". Or with everything being "blxxqvy". The point of > the original bug report was that there's no consistency in the > language. Sometimes you can use the "highlight" form and sometimes you > have to use the "hilite" form. The problem is trying to remember which > is which. Indeed, I want consistency - however, going from a situation where things are inconsistent, and lax to one where they are consistent and strict-enough is really difficult to do piece-meal when you have literally millions of lines of code out there which depend on the current implementation. > I agree with what you're saying about the proliferation of synonyms. > I'm not wild about most of the other synonyms in the language > either... "cd", "fld", etc (although I'd hate to give up "loc" and > "rect") But right now we're trying to have it both ways. To my eye the > "hilite" form looks cutesy and unprofessional, but I do understand > developers are lazy and don't like typing, so I'd be fine with that. > It's in the documentation already. I'd prefer 'highlight' too - but with any long standing system which has evolved over a long time you have to respect the 'defacto standards' which have evolved within it, whether intended or unintended as a great many people will have learnt to depend on them. > But really... let's move in the direction of some consistency. Definitely. We just need to make sure we work out the best way to get there. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 06:01:17 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:01:17 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562C863D.9060708@gmail.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> <562BE46A.6040707@hyperactivesw.com> <562BEA15.1050706@gmail.com> <562BF100.2070107@hyperactivesw.com> <562C863D.9060708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <27947edec75811d4d4e9e266aaa1f4dd@livecode.com> On 2015-10-25 08:35, Richmond wrote: >> Because Open Language was his idea, presented at a conference some >> years ago. I didn't stop to think that not everyone knows that. >> > > Well, at least one person didn't :/ Hah - I had actually forgotten that Open Language had been presented in an NDA session at a conference (the year before the KickStarter campaign if I remember correctly - 2012). > My crit. (which is my usual crit. about the Kickstarter) was aimed at > a feeling that > RunRev were so enthusiastic about the Kickstarter they merrily 'said' > all sorts of things, > that later, in "the cool light of reason" may have been seen to be a > bit unwise, or > should have been stated in more measured terms. There is a prototype version of the Open Language parser which I developed - it is currently sitting on my hard-drive. It was demonstrated in the NDA session - so we have definitely not been spouting 'hot air'. There are various reasons why it has not appeared yet - the primary one being that it has taken us a lot longer to do the work on the engine so that the engine can support it than we originally projected. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 06:07:49 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:07:49 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562BD740.5050505@gmail.com> References: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> <562BD5BA.1030907@fourthworld.com> <562BD740.5050505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9dfb71ece6109d23ff2aa6f3286765bb@livecode.com> On 2015-10-24 21:08, Richmond wrote: > I don't think that "RunRev doesn't care", but I think they have > promised rather more than they are capable of delivering > in a semi-reasonable time-frame, and as a resilt they have got a lots > of people's expectations up in a way that may be > quite unrealistic, and it might not be a bad idea if they did a spot > of retrenchment instead of keeping quiet. Well, I can certainly say that LiveCode Ltd. (we ceased being RunRev a while ago ;)) does care - well, actually LiveCode Ltd. is a company so being a non-person legal entity means it has no emotions. So I should say, the people at LiveCode Ltd. do care. In fact they care a great deal... Enough in fact that many of them have invested a good portion of their lives and resources into the endeavour. All of them working far beyond what anybody could necessarily reasonably expect. > Certainly, if RunRev were to state something like this: > > "We would very much like to work towards Open Language, however we do > realise something now, that we might have been > unaware of in our enthusiasm over the Kickstarter and launching an > Open Source version of LiveCode, so it would be unreasonable > for users to expect anything near a fully open langauge sometime soon." > > That might let people who are wondering, that they care. The point is that we have been working towards it continually. It is a part of the long term plan we have for LiveCode. It is just that (as you astutely noticed) the 'long' here is perhaps slightly 'longer' than we had predicted and hoped for. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 06:20:20 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:20:20 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <009AAD82-110F-44F5-9F9C-4DCA332ABC96@sweattechnologies.com> References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <78FC0ECB-4DA0-4DC3-A33C-9C0B295DA1B1@sweattechnologies.com> <9F6C9114-EBF1-47A6-B77E-6496D1EEB1E3@sweattechnologies.com> <2F0DDDA8-7B60-4A72-B7EB-3FBD2AC83A0E@sweattechnologies.com> <7fd28b0d63a5b636709c3332e055c524@livecode.com> <009AAD82-110F-44F5-9F9C-4DCA332ABC96@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-27 10:22, Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 27 Oct 2015, at 8:02 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> Note that in all three 'operator' cases, you can also have expressions >> in-between the tokens: >> 'is' 'between' 'and' > > Out of interest if I implement the above syntax but only for > expressions that evaluate to a number can someone else implement it > for expressions that evaluate to strings or some other thing. Can the > be used together by some other user that doesn?t care about the > implementation detail? There are two ways to interpret your question... Option (1): Person A: x OP y => EvalOP(in x as integer, in y as integer) returns array Person B: x OP y => EvalOP(in x as string, in y as string) returns boolean Option (2): Person A: x OP y => EvalOP(in x as integer, in y as integer) returns integer Person B: x OP y => EvalOP(in x as integer, in y as integer) returns string The difference here is that in Option (1), you can have differing return types as long as the types of the parameters are different. In Option (2), you can have differing return types even if the types of the parameters are the same. Open Language definitely allows Option (1) - it is the basis of how 'specialization' of syntax can work for different argument types. This model is one where 'types flow downward' to work out how which variant to call. Now, Option (2) is quite different - it means that the context of the use of an expression can be used to choose which form to call. This could work with the type-system in LiveCode Builder - I doubt it could be made to work effectively in LiveCode Script, too many ambiguities would arise (as the type required in a given context in LiveCode Script is often flexible). That being said Option (2) is a proper superset of functionality for Option (1) so it is something we can explore at a later date. From all the work I have done up until now, Option (1) appears to be more than sufficient a model for currently existing LiveCode Script, and the purposes LiveCode Builder is currently being put to. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 07:34:22 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:34:22 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9351d33915709b981b879198ecac090d@livecode.com> On 2015-10-25 12:06, Graham Samuel wrote: > The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may > well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the > actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode > on all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even > thinking about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a > member of the use list? Obviously delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on all supported platforms is the most important thing. It is something I have been working on ensuring ever since I joined the company in 2004. We have done many significant things over the years to help reach this goal - starting off in 2004 with auditing the bug database (as it was then) and putting the engine source code under version control. In more recent times, we have: - Implemented an out-of-tree test system which is run on all new releases. - Implemented unit testing frameworks at all levels (C++, LiveCode Builder, LiveCode Script) - Started requiring tests to be added to PRs (at least for things which tests can currently be written for). - Refined our internal process for handling and managing bugs and issues. - Refined our internal process for ensuring patches to the engine are at the required standard. - Considerably raised the expected standard of code which can be accepted as a patch for both internal engineers and external contributors. - Instituted the requirements for code review on every single patch which goes in (which is a requirement - via integration with our build system - for a PR to be progressed). - Implemented an automated build system which produces LiveCode distributions for all platforms. - Implemented integration of the build system with GitHub, enabling easy communication of build failures. - Implemented continuous integration of all Pull Requests, ensuring that one will not be merged if it does not build on all platforms. - Working towards running the unit test stack on each PR as part of continuous integration. One of the goals of the 7.0 refactor was to move a very old, undocumented, difficult to maintain and spaghetti-like code forward to a new model which is cleaner, easier to maintain and more amenable to use in the ways we need it to be to move the platform forward (indeed, it has been a 'happy' side-effect that in doing this process the actual semantics of what things are meant to do has become a great deal clearer - the code itself in many cases is now almost documentation in and of itself - assuming you can 'read the runes' in that regard). Of course, this process alone has been quite long and difficult - but well worth the effort in terms of what it will enable moving forward. However, please understand, that we would be entirely remiss if we spent no time at all thinking about how the LiveCode technology needs to evolve and change as we move into the future. A lot of what we have planned has taken a long time to work out how to do, even before we've actually started to do it. Indeed, future direction *hugely* impacts the choices you make in the present. The pace at which computers and software technology evolves is breath-taking, so unless you want to be relegated to the warehouse of great ideas which never quite got there (as so many 4GLs have), you find yourself in an eternal juggling act between ensuring you definitely have a future, and ensuring that you have a present... Needless to say, this is not an easy task, but certainly one which brings with it a wealth of interesting problems. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 08:19:34 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:19:34 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <562BD333.2080401@gmail.com> <562BD83B.5060608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-27 10:50, Mark Waddingham wrote: > accept accept accept accept 1000 with empty "callbackMessage" This should be: accept connections connections connections 1000 with empty "callbackMessage" Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Oct 27 08:59:49 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:59:49 +0100 Subject: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? In-Reply-To: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <007b01d110b7$5d7ce1e0$1876a5a0$@kestner.de> Sometimes when I don't get any answers on a post, I wonder if the reason was, that the issue is so exotic, that nobody else has experienced it and can't help, or that the issue is just so basic, that it is too self-evident to answer. I try to ask a more simple question Do you enable "Hi-DPI scaling" in the standalone settings for windows since 6.7.7 by standard or never? (I can't test the difference myself, not having a Hi-DPI monitor) Thanks Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB Gesendet: Montag, 26. Oktober 2015 10:52 An: LiveCode User Liste senden Betreff: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? Hello, since LC 6.7.6 or 6.7.7 you can enable Hi-DPI scaling in the standalone builder settings for windows. I don't have a Hi-DPI monitor and didn't found anything in the forum about it, so I am unsure what happens with my stack if I would enable this setting? What exactly happens when it says "if enabled, the stack will be scaled to fit"? A Hi-Res monitor has a higher pixel density, but my program windows and objects have fixed sizes in pixel. My understanding is, if I don't enable this setting, my stacks will be displayed smaller on a Hi-DPI monitor? Correct? And enabling this setting, are they scaled to the "same appearance", as on a standard monitor? Or what happens? If yes, probably images get blurred, when being scaled, so you shouldn't enable this option when you use images, correct? Why is the Hi-DPI support for Windows a chooseable option and for OS X it is standard since 6.7.6 (6.7.7)? Do images don't get blurred, when the stack is resized on OS X? Why can't I disable this option on OS X? How do you handle this option? Do you always enable it? Thanks for your experiences Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 09:10:17 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:10:17 +0100 Subject: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI =?UTF-8?Q?scaling=3F?= In-Reply-To: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> On 2015-10-26 10:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > I don't have a Hi-DPI monitor and didn't found anything in the forum > about > it, so I am unsure what happens with my stack if I would enable this > setting? What exactly happens when it says "if enabled, the stack will > be > scaled to fit"? A Hi-Res monitor has a higher pixel density, but my > program > windows and objects have fixed sizes in pixel. My understanding is, if > I > don't enable this setting, my stacks will be displayed smaller on a > Hi-DPI > monitor? Correct? And enabling this setting, are they scaled to the > "same > appearance", as on a standard monitor? Or what happens? If yes, > probably > images get blurred, when being scaled, so you shouldn't enable this > option > when you use images, correct? Hi-DPI scaling makes it so that if the systems 'pixel scale' (the mapping from virtual pixels to physical pixels) is not 1-1, the engine will appropriately render things to use the 'extra fidelity'. A stack which is 400x400 in LiveCode, will still appear to be 400x400 on a Retina display, say, except that it will actually be rendering at 800x800 - making things crisper. Depending on the version of Windows you are targetting, you can experiment with HiDPI by adjusting the 'text scaling' option in the system preferences. > Why is the Hi-DPI support for Windows a chooseable option and for OS X > it is > standard since 6.7.6 (6.7.7)? Do images don't get blurred, when the > stack is > resized on OS X? Why can't I disable this option on OS X? Windows does not allow the runtime configuration of Hi-DPI 'pixel scaling' - it has to be specified as part of the Applications 'manifest' which is integrated at standalone build time. Mac, however, does allow toggleing configuration of Hi-DPI 'pixel scaling' at runtime - see the 'usePixelScaling' option. By default, the Mac engine will use as many pixels as it can - so if you have a retina display, you will get pixel scaling (but you can turn it off - set the usePixelScaling to false). On Windows, by default pixel scaling is turned off, but you can choose to use it for your app by turning it on in the standalone builder. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Oct 27 09:56:32 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:56:32 +0100 Subject: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? In-Reply-To: <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> Message-ID: <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> Thanks Mark for jumping in! If I understood you correct, things even get crisper and not blurred with Hi-DPI enabled on a Hi-DPI monitor and keep as they are on a standard monitor. So my conclusion would be to enable it always by standard (since it is anyway standard on OS X) What could be a reason not to enable Hi-DPI scaling on Windows or with other words, why is it an option? Thanks Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Oktober 2015 14:10 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? On 2015-10-26 10:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > I don't have a Hi-DPI monitor and didn't found anything in the forum > about it, so I am unsure what happens with my stack if I would enable > this setting? What exactly happens when it says "if enabled, the stack > will be scaled to fit"? A Hi-Res monitor has a higher pixel density, > but my program windows and objects have fixed sizes in pixel. My > understanding is, if I don't enable this setting, my stacks will be > displayed smaller on a Hi-DPI monitor? Correct? And enabling this > setting, are they scaled to the "same appearance", as on a standard > monitor? Or what happens? If yes, probably images get blurred, when > being scaled, so you shouldn't enable this option when you use images, > correct? Hi-DPI scaling makes it so that if the systems 'pixel scale' (the mapping from virtual pixels to physical pixels) is not 1-1, the engine will appropriately render things to use the 'extra fidelity'. A stack which is 400x400 in LiveCode, will still appear to be 400x400 on a Retina display, say, except that it will actually be rendering at 800x800 - making things crisper. Depending on the version of Windows you are targetting, you can experiment with HiDPI by adjusting the 'text scaling' option in the system preferences. > Why is the Hi-DPI support for Windows a chooseable option and for OS X > it is standard since 6.7.6 (6.7.7)? Do images don't get blurred, when > the stack is resized on OS X? Why can't I disable this option on OS X? Windows does not allow the runtime configuration of Hi-DPI 'pixel scaling' - it has to be specified as part of the Applications 'manifest' which is integrated at standalone build time. Mac, however, does allow toggleing configuration of Hi-DPI 'pixel scaling' at runtime - see the 'usePixelScaling' option. By default, the Mac engine will use as many pixels as it can - so if you have a retina display, you will get pixel scaling (but you can turn it off - set the usePixelScaling to false). On Windows, by default pixel scaling is turned off, but you can choose to use it for your app by turning it on in the standalone builder. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Tue Oct 27 10:02:55 2015 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:02:55 +0100 Subject: How script the widget Switchbutton ? Message-ID: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> Hello, I play with Livecode 8 dp7. Widget are cool but how use it ? If i put a switchbutton on my stack and put this script : on mouseup answer the hilite of me end mouseup nothing happen. I cannot find any example in the doc. Thanks From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 10:09:17 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:09:17 -0400 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <5F09A292-A8D6-4F06-B60B-F8665AF211EF@all-auctions.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0C88.5000006@gmail.com> <5F09A292-A8D6-4F06-B60B-F8665AF211EF@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <54744A27-C8F4-4196-8FBF-B35B8DBC81B1@gmail.com> "If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." -- George Gobel -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Oct 25, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Rick Harrison wrote: > Forget the cherry, we need lit candles so we can see our code better! We need candles! ;-) > > Rick > >> On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:08 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> On 25/10/15 18:59, Kevin Miller wrote: >>> We did not promise a cherry. We are not going to promise a cherry. No cherry is planned. We will not be held accountable for non-delivery of said item. >> >> Now, that's odd: I'm sure the word "cherry" occurred somewhere on a web-page that has somehow, subsequently been deleted . . . . >> >> Richmond. From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 10:11:14 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:11:14 -0400 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/25/2015 12:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> Make your own cherry with LCB and give the first couple of versions away >> for free. Then somewhere just after version 3 you could sell a more >> expensive chocolate-covered version and call it Cherry Pi. >> > > That's an irrational idea. Actually, it's a transcendental idea. :-) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 10:17:53 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:17:53 -0400 Subject: Keep Selection Focus When Switching to Substack In-Reply-To: <006EDD39-2CD7-4BB9-8292-30AACCB7B04A@iotecdigital.com> References: <006EDD39-2CD7-4BB9-8292-30AACCB7B04A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: What I have done is put an "on mouseenter" handler in the palette buttons (or at a higher level, in the palette card script) that saves the current selection and the long name of the selectedfield. That way you don't have to modify all your target stacks, just the palette scripts. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Oct 26, 2015, at 11:16 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I think the reply was to trap for suspendStack in your apps, save the current selection and selectedObject, then trap for resumeStack and set it again. It's the only way I've found to do it. It's a pain, but not difficult to implement. I agree that the selection for a stack should not deselect when switching to another stack or app. I suppose then that the selection should be a stack property instead of a global one, but I don't see how they could change it now. > > Bob S > > >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 19:51 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> >> I think I asked this before, >> >> but? is there a way to keep the selection when switching to a substack that is set to palette? >> >> The goal is to have buttons that operate on selected text, but in a separate stack. >> >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 10:25:54 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:25:54 -0600 Subject: How script the widget Switchbutton ? In-Reply-To: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> References: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> Message-ID: Look at: switchIsOn On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 8:02 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT < ludovic.thebault at laposte.net> wrote: > Hello, > > I play with Livecode 8 dp7. Widget are cool but how use it ? > If i put a switchbutton on my stack and put this script : > > on mouseup > answer the hilite of me > end mouseup > > nothing happen. > > I cannot find any example in the doc. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Tue Oct 27 10:26:02 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:26:02 +0100 Subject: How script the widget Switchbutton ? In-Reply-To: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> References: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> Message-ID: Bonjour Ludovic, > Am 27.10.2015 um 15:02 schrieb Ludovic THEBAULT : > > Hello, > > I play with Livecode 8 dp7. Widget are cool but how use it ? > If i put a switchbutton on my stack and put this script : > on mouseup > answer the hilite of me > end mouseup > nothing happen. Because this is a widget and not a ?normal? button! > I cannot find any example in the doc. I did, try harder! :-) ? ## On/Off set the switchIsOn of widget 1 to NOT the switchIsOn of widget 1 ? > Thanks Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk Tue Oct 27 10:22:37 2015 From: paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:22:37 +0000 Subject: How script the widget Switchbutton ? In-Reply-To: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> References: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> Message-ID: Hi Ludovic, If when you look at the property inspector for each widget, you will see what options are available (basic TAB - which shows the house icon) In the case of the Switch, you can see a property for Switch on (hover mouse over and it will show you SwitchIsOn) An possible example of use could be: on switchChanged pSwitchIsOn if pSwitchIsOn is true then answer "Switch Enabled" else answer "Switch Disabled" end if end switchChanged Paul :-) -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ludovic THEBAULT Sent: 27 October 2015 14:03 To: How to use LiveCode Subject: How script the widget Switchbutton ? Hello, I play with Livecode 8 dp7. Widget are cool but how use it ? If i put a switchbutton on my stack and put this script : on mouseup answer the hilite of me end mouseup nothing happen. I cannot find any example in the doc. Thanks _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 10:36:43 2015 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:36:43 +0100 Subject: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? In-Reply-To: <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <078B462F-3874-4033-B7C3-1F2E3DEC9070@gmail.com> Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Do you enable "Hi-DPI scaling" in the standalone settings for windows since > 6.7.7 by standard or never? (I can't test the difference myself, not having > a Hi-DPI monitor) There's currently a bug relating to the Windows Hi-DPI status in the standalone settings window. It *is* enabled by default, but often incorrectly shows up as being disabled in the settings window. A temporary fix was provided by Panos at: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15694 Lyn From paul at researchware.com Tue Oct 27 10:45:56 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:45:56 -0400 Subject: How script the widget Switchbutton ? In-Reply-To: References: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> Message-ID: <562F8E24.70100@researchware.com> On 10/27/2015 10:26 AM, Klaus major-k wrote: > Because this is a widget and not a ?normal? button! Currently in LC8.0.0dp7, when creating a widget like the switch button with a simple on/off state, can you NOT use the hilite property. Did the creator of the switch button have to use a new "SwitchIsOn" property or could they have used hilite (or highlight or any of the aliases) for consistency with other button or button-like controls? I'm not criticizing the choice, I am just curious about the state of LC8 and it limitations or strength in utilizing existing control properties in widgets . From bhumphrey2 at earthlink.net Tue Oct 27 10:48:05 2015 From: bhumphrey2 at earthlink.net (Bruce Humphrey) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:48:05 -0400 Subject: Implementing Open Language Message-ID: <351DE5DE-8DCF-4854-87E3-8F617ADE348C@earthlink.net> Probably a stupid or newbie question, since I am a newbie, but in all the discussion about syntax consistency I haven't seen much talk about how to actually make it happen. I would think the first implementation point is with the script editor gate keeping the acceptable syntax/words/dictionary and recommending the "official" or preferred spelling/usage as it's typed. Type "highlight" and it flags it and recommends "hilite", etc. Leave the engine alone but start flagging preferences to move the user base to the preferred forms. Or maybe I'm missing something. Wouldn't be the first time. Frankly I wish the little bugger (script editor) would provide the full phrase syntax requirements as I am constantly stuck with newbie errors in prepositions (using "in" instead of "with") or habitually using old HyperTalk structures that LiveCode chokes on. They make sense to ME. Okay everyone: tear me a new one for wasting your time with the obvious or oblivious! Bruce Sent from my iPhone From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Tue Oct 27 10:49:06 2015 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:49:06 +0100 Subject: How script the widget Switchbutton ? In-Reply-To: References: <51E6D5F3-E78C-4EA5-8AE5-DADA7803FF32@laposte.net> Message-ID: Le 27 oct. 2015 ? 15:22, Paul Richards a ?crit : > Hi Ludovic, > > If when you look at the property inspector for each widget, you will see what options are available (basic TAB - which shows the house icon) > > In the case of the Switch, you can see a property for Switch on (hover mouse over and it will show you SwitchIsOn) Thanks everybody From heather at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 11:23:44 2015 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:23:44 +0000 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hmmm. Do I have to add cherries to the list of things that are not permitted to be discussed on this list? /\ O O Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 27 Oct 2015, at 14:11, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > > On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > >> On 10/25/2015 12:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> Make your own cherry with LCB and give the first couple of versions away >>> for free. Then somewhere just after version 3 you could sell a more >>> expensive chocolate-covered version and call it Cherry Pi. >>> >> >> That's an irrational idea. > > Actually, it's a transcendental idea. :-) > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 11:25:30 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:25:30 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-27 16:23, Heather Laine wrote: > Hmmm. Do I have to add cherries to the list of things that are not > permitted to be discussed on this list? > > /\ > O O That won't work though - a new synonym will just be added and used instead ;) Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Oct 27 11:37:09 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:37:09 -0700 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562F9A25.5040302@ahsoftware.net> On 10/27/2015 08:25 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > That won't work though - a new synonym will just be added and used > instead ;) ROTFL -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 11:47:44 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:47:44 +0000 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <9351d33915709b981b879198ecac090d@livecode.com> References: <9351d33915709b981b879198ecac090d@livecode.com> Message-ID: <6AA77278-3213-416B-BDE4-14895086726F@iotecdigital.com> On Oct 27, 2015, at 04:34 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: One of the goals of the 7.0 refactor was to move a very old, undocumented, difficult to maintain and spaghetti-like code forward to a new model which is cleaner, easier to maintain and more amenable to use in the ways we need it to be to move the platform forward (indeed, it has been a 'happy' side-effect that in doing this process the actual semantics of what things are meant to do has become a great deal clearer - the code itself in many cases is now almost documentation in and of itself - assuming you can 'read the runes' in that regard). Of course, this process alone has been quite long and difficult - but well worth the effort in terms of what it will enable moving forward. A very great software company (imho) called Now Software produced a multiuser calendaring and contact system that was second to none. I had 2 fairly large organizations running off it and everyone that used it and knew it loved it. The problem was... SPAGHETTI CODE!!!!! It had become so onerous to make anything amounting to real feature additions that they decided to rewrite the database and code from the ground up, reworking the entire interface in the process. It killed the company. They got a couple early betas out, but the direction they headed went all wrong. So I guess what I am saying is that I really appreciate the difficulty of what the LC developers have done. I think the real key was to not try and create an entirely new application in the process of refactoring the existing code. Most people have no idea what it takes to write a really robust and functional application, never mind a development environment that can produce one! My impression of the LC devs is that they are top notch, and I for one and grateful for their efforts. Thanks to all the LC devs for their exceptional work. I don't think we can give them the credit they are due, except to keep up our subscriptions and continue to support the company. Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 11:48:37 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:48:37 +0000 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> Message-ID: Probably one and the same thing more often than we realize. Bob S On Oct 27, 2015, at 07:11 , Peter M. Brigham > wrote: That's an irrational idea. Actually, it's a transcendental idea. :-) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 11:54:32 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:54:32 +0000 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: References: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5B25BE20-CEB8-41B9-BC86-1323AA06AD84@iotecdigital.com> What I typically do is: put "SELECT foo FROM tTableName WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat');" into tSQL replace "tTableName" with tTableName in tSQL -- assuming tTableName contains the name of a real table Looks and reads a whole lot cleaner. Bob S On Oct 26, 2015, at 13:25 , Dr. Hawkins > wrote: I seem to have mis-parsed that myself. There is a custom property (call it theProp) with a value like "SELECT foo FROM " & tableName & " WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat');" So those quotes and & are in the string to be evaluated. My understanding of parsing is that the first piece should evaluate to SELECT foo FROM the second to SELECT foo FROM and the third to WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat'); and when concatenated produce a string of SELECT foo FROM theRealTableName WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat'); From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 12:09:36 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:09:36 +0000 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <2639a50abd736269ebc50a5906cb9663@livecode.com> <562E5D7B.6020001@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <84E3E554-8365-4ABB-A349-9FB74E9C0A64@iotecdigital.com> I would say LC is "typeless" as far as it can be. Graphic data is not strictly typeless, data read in as binary is not typeless, etc. In fact, any attempt to reduce *ALL* data to strings would be a horrible mistake. I guess I'm saying that I appreciate not having to worry about typing until it can't be helped. Bob S On Oct 27, 2015, at 01:42 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: One of the principal differences between LiveCode Script and LiveCode Builder is that LiveCode Script tries very hard to be a 'typeless' language (okay so it has arrays so it isn't really), whereas LiveCode Builder doesn't - it has dynamically typed semantics which are strictly enforced. From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 12:18:19 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:18:19 -0400 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Revised. Now in function form, with error checking and depth control. You can hand in a positive number to get that number of layers deep, or a negative number to go all the way down. I tested it on my home directory and it came back fine (after some time). I haven't (knowingly) tested with unusual characters. on mouseUp put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" end mouseUp function directoryListing whatFolder,c put whatFolder & cr into R set the directory to whatFolder if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R put the files into tFileList sort tFileList replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList sort tDirList repeat for each line L in tDirList put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R end repeat return R end directoryListing On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < > matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: > >> I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list >> and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. >> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html >> > > Man, do I hate looking at my old code... > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 12:25:00 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:25:00 +0000 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <0037644a1bf83ce0c927c9e097122d96@livecode.com> <562E70AC.1040809@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 27, 2015, at 02:11 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: On 2015-10-26 19:27, Richmond wrote: I would love LiveCode NOT to understand the uncertainty of me. Computers should not be behave being as ambiguous as we humans are. Quite - nor should programming languages be ambiguous. Indeed, for them to be useful at all they need to be entirely unambiguous. I've always said that what facinates developers so much about computers is that it is a microcosm of predictability. In the real world you can do everything right and have it turn out oh, so wrong. Not with software development. When the wolves of reality have us cowering amidst the bushes of uncertainty, (wow that was really good!) we can always run to our brick houses of Software Development. If something goes wrong, it's our fault, plain and simple. But we can still fix it! What's not to love about that?? ;-) Bob S From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 12:38:24 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:38:24 +0000 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.1 for Atom editor Message-ID: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> Hi all, == Atom language-livecode package 0.6.1 == The "language-livecode" package for the Atom editor (https://atom.io/) integrates syntax highlighting, indentation, autocompletion, and linting support for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb), LiveCode Script (.livecodescript), and LiveCode Server (.lc / .irev) source files. For more information, visit: https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode == Installation 1. Visit Atom's "Settings" view (via "File->Preferences") 2. Go to the "Install" tab 3. Use the search field to search for the "language-livecode" package 4. Click "Install" == Notable changes in 0.6.1 * Revised, expanded and generally improved documentation * Improved LiveCode Script support * Support for `if...then...else...` syntax * Better indentation in `switch` blocks * Restore completion of symbols from the current file * Don't clobber autocomplete settings * Improved variable & constant capturing * Restored support for linting revIgniter files == Reporting problems Please report issues to https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 12:39:17 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:39:17 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <84E3E554-8365-4ABB-A349-9FB74E9C0A64@iotecdigital.com> References: <2639a50abd736269ebc50a5906cb9663@livecode.com> <562E5D7B.6020001@fourthworld.com> <84E3E554-8365-4ABB-A349-9FB74E9C0A64@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-27 17:09, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I would say LC is "typeless" as far as it can be. Graphic data is not > strictly typeless, data read in as binary is not typeless, etc. In > fact, any attempt to reduce *ALL* data to strings would be a horrible > mistake. I guess I'm saying that I appreciate not having to worry > about typing until it can't be helped. I think that is generally why typeless languages are generally scalar+array languages - as not being able to build general collections is quite limiting... HyperCard was probably what you could call 'pure typeless' - as everything was a string, and didn't have arrays. Pre-7 LiveCode was definitely scalar+array. Post-7 though, LiveCode now sits on a dynamically typed underbelly and aspects of the dynamic typing do start to 'poke through' a little more (perhaps regrettably). Unfortunately in order to ensure transparent Unicode *and* allowing existing code to run unmodified it was necessary to expose an explicit division between text and binary data - principally because the 'native encodings' used for text on each platform were not the same as the first 256 Unicode codepoints. It is an interesting (at least to me) exercise to consider how one might make a variant of LiveCode which was truly typeless and (once again - like HyperCard) treated 'string' as the universal datatype. For example: - nothing: the empty string - booleans: "true" and "false" - numbers: decimal arithmetic with arbitrary precision (obviously transcendental operators would need to use some local property to determine precision) - strings: sequence of Unicode codepoints - data: a string where each codepoint < 256 - lists: 'item' delimited strings However, at this point one gets into the question of 'collections'. Really you are limited to either table-like strings (i.e. two dimensional arrays), or dictionary-like strings (i.e two items per line, first item key, second item value). This is obviously really quite limiting - you would lose 'nested' arrays, and higher-dimensional arrays. The above should be possible to do in an entirely self-contained, and internally consistent way though - in that arrays are line-delimited lists, and dictionaries are line-delimited two element lists. You could consider a tree-like string representation for nested arrays, but then you lose a fair bit of synergy between the other data-types and at that point you might as well start thinking about adding a collection type (i.e. LiveCode arrays) and thus the goal of making something purely typeless is gone. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 12:57:16 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:57:16 +0000 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.1 for Atom editor In-Reply-To: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> References: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1FFEEBC3-8292-4D40-8EC0-E26800226312@iotecdigital.com> Thanks Brett. Autocomplete seems to work with variables now. I can see how this would be really useful for writing a large script from scratch. Wouldn't it be neat if there was an LC plugin that could pass a script to Atom for editing, then read it back and compile it... hmmm... Bob S > On Oct 27, 2015, at 09:38 , Peter TB Brett wrote: > > Hi all, > > == Atom language-livecode package 0.6.1 == > > The "language-livecode" package for the Atom editor (https://atom.io/) integrates syntax highlighting, indentation, autocompletion, and linting support for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb), LiveCode Script (.livecodescript), and LiveCode Server (.lc / .irev) source files. > > For more information, visit: https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode > > == Installation > > 1. Visit Atom's "Settings" view (via "File->Preferences") > 2. Go to the "Install" tab > 3. Use the search field to search for the "language-livecode" package > 4. Click "Install" > > == Notable changes in 0.6.1 > > * Revised, expanded and generally improved documentation > * Improved LiveCode Script support > * Support for `if...then...else...` syntax > * Better indentation in `switch` blocks > * Restore completion of symbols from the current file > * Don't clobber autocomplete settings > * Improved variable & constant capturing > * Restored support for linting revIgniter files > > == Reporting problems > > Please report issues to https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 27 12:59:54 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:59:54 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.1 for Atom editor In-Reply-To: <1FFEEBC3-8292-4D40-8EC0-E26800226312@iotecdigital.com> References: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> <1FFEEBC3-8292-4D40-8EC0-E26800226312@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: There is - STS MLXEditor Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Thanks Brett. Autocomplete seems to work with variables now. I can see how > this would be really useful for writing a large script from scratch. > Wouldn't it be neat if there was an LC plugin that could pass a script to > Atom for editing, then read it back and compile it... hmmm... > > Bob S > > > > On Oct 27, 2015, at 09:38 , Peter TB Brett > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > == Atom language-livecode package 0.6.1 == > > > > The "language-livecode" package for the Atom editor (https://atom.io/) > integrates syntax highlighting, indentation, autocompletion, and linting > support for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb), LiveCode Script > (.livecodescript), and LiveCode Server (.lc / .irev) source files. > > > > For more information, visit: https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode > > > > == Installation > > > > 1. Visit Atom's "Settings" view (via "File->Preferences") > > 2. Go to the "Install" tab > > 3. Use the search field to search for the "language-livecode" package > > 4. Click "Install" > > > > == Notable changes in 0.6.1 > > > > * Revised, expanded and generally improved documentation > > * Improved LiveCode Script support > > * Support for `if...then...else...` syntax > > * Better indentation in `switch` blocks > > * Restore completion of symbols from the current file > > * Don't clobber autocomplete settings > > * Improved variable & constant capturing > > * Restored support for linting revIgniter files > > > > == Reporting problems > > > > Please report issues to > https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 27 13:01:06 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:01:06 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-26 17:36, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> I'm fine with whatever there's budget to provide to let folks explore >> novel syntax, even more so with your reminder here that Open Language >> is among the last of the enhancements in queue, long after being able >> to play a video file on Linux without crashing and other less >> glamorous but useful things. > > Unfortunately, language and features are intertwined. You can't have > features without a way to access them, and a language with no features > is useless. Maybe my tastes are too savage, but personally I'm fine with the existing syntax for player controls. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Oct 27 13:07:13 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:07:13 -0500 Subject: Implementing Open Language In-Reply-To: <351DE5DE-8DCF-4854-87E3-8F617ADE348C@earthlink.net> References: <351DE5DE-8DCF-4854-87E3-8F617ADE348C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <562FAF41.80605@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/27/2015 9:48 AM, Bruce Humphrey wrote: > Frankly I wish the little bugger (script editor) would provide the > full phrase syntax requirements as I am constantly stuck with newbie > errors in prepositions (using "in" instead of "with") or habitually > using old HyperTalk structures that LiveCode chokes on. They make > sense to ME. You can get close to having that if you leave the Documentation pane visible in the variable watcher at the bottom of the editor. When the insertion point is in a keyword, the Docs pane shows you the syntax. You can tick the checkbox at the lower right to see the entire dictionary entry, or just leave the abbreviated version visible if all you need is the syntax. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 13:13:26 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:13:26 -0700 Subject: parentheses within string break value() In-Reply-To: <5B25BE20-CEB8-41B9-BC86-1323AA06AD84@iotecdigital.com> References: <0D26DB3B-957D-4687-A4B1-D1AD8CF51B42@iotecdigital.com> <5B25BE20-CEB8-41B9-BC86-1323AA06AD84@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > put "SELECT foo FROM tTableName WHERE (bar > 7) AND (animal<>'cat');" into > tSQL > replace "tTableName" with tTableName in tSQL -- assuming tTableName > contains the name of a real table > > Looks and reads a whole lot cleaner. > > If it was all code, this would be cleaner indeed. I'm trying to have a single-line custom property of a group that evaluates to the correct query. There are a great many groups to loop through, some with such a property, others without. Save for the table name, though, which varies by client, the query is the same each time. Jacqui's suggestion of merge has also lead me to getProp . . . I suppose I could file a bug report for value()'s dictionary entry not xrfeffing merge . . . But I'm still bothered by value() not respecting quotation marks. Except for a couple of unix shells, this seems to be a unique handling of a string. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 13:14:44 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:14:44 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <389ff9de11b8823cac6d2480d00dbc8b@livecode.com> On 2015-10-27 18:01, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Unfortunately, language and features are intertwined. You can't have >> features without a way to access them, and a language with no features >> is useless. > > Maybe my tastes are too savage, but personally I'm fine with the > existing syntax for player controls. I'm glad for you. However, I think you know full well that was not my point... Just to reiterate it - let's take an analogy with property ownership. Most people will at some point in their lives want to buy a house. Unfortunately (at least in the UK) this tends to require a hefty deposit. As money doesn't grow on trees, it is necessary to plan significantly ahead and save the money that you need for the deposit so that at some future date you can indeed buy a house. Developing any complex software technology (and combined IDE / GUI Toolkits / Language systems are complex software - let's make no bones about that) is quite similar - if you substitute money for 'knowledge' and 'foundations'. If you see that the technology needs to really be at a particular point in the future, you need to 'cannibalise' your resources slightly along the way in order to make sure that at that point in the future you have the necessary knowledge and foundations on which to achieve the goal. You seem to be of the point of view that the R&D necessary to ensure the future viability of technology is a 'nice-to-have' and 'unnecessary'. However, the reality is that it is something which *has* to be considered a critical part - lest you wish your technology to whither, shrink, and gradually fade away into the past. As I said in another post - it is a difficult juggling act. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 27 13:23:06 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:23:06 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562FB2FA.9080403@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-24 21:12, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> My favorite example is the "export snapshot" command - even with the >> Dictionary guidance we all need to turn to for that no matter how >> many times we've used it, it's so complex with such a combinatorial >> explosion of options that I defy anyone to make a readable BNF for >> it. :) > > The 'export snapshot' command is rather unfortunate. It was augmented > by me to add the ability to snapshot an object directly (rather than > the screen) and because (to be blunt) the actual code for the syntax > of the export command was always a complete 'botched' job I did the > best that I was able to do. We disagree here only in that I think you did a fine job there, as was done with adding the "at" sizing options. One thing most of us have in common here is that we need to ship applications. Very few of us (zero?) are responsible for drafting BNFs. Warts and all, LiveCode lets us get the job done with remarkable ease. Sure, we need to look things up now and then, but who doesn't? There's more to C than its 27 keywords. Few enjoy programming who don't enjoy learning. The R-style syntax I enjoy in that language solves one aspect of the problem, but only by fundamentally changing the flavor of our language if we were to use it here. In OOP we could make snapshots a class, so the values specifying them could be expressed as name-value pairs through instance variables - but who wants to use a language where you need to instantiate a math class just to add two numbers? :) OOP is fine where OOP is fine, but OOP isn't xTalk. In LC, we see increasing use of arrays for name-value pairs (e.g. clipboardData, etc.), and if it were important for someone to simplify some aspects of making snapshots they could easily craft a handler that takes an array to do that in just a couple minutes. So maybe I'm too easy to please, but I think the current syntax for snapshots is OK. Sure, it's imperfect, but we live in a world defined by limitations in which all things are imperfect. And besides, you could add another 10 options to that command and it'd still be cleaner syntax than SuperCard's QuickTime commands, and less nails-on-a-chalkboard than even simpler things from the olden days like "playLoudness". :) > Indeed, I'd defy anyone to make truly accurate BNF for *any* of the > language's current syntax - this is actually a tremendous problem > which limits a great deal. Back in the day Brian Molyneaux of Heizer Software noted the same thing about xTalks. Just too loosey-goosey for that sort of thing. Fortunately, my job is to make software, not BNFs, and LiveCode lets me do that. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Oct 27 14:14:25 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:14:25 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Thank you, Geoff JB > On Oct 27, 2015, at 9:18 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > Revised. Now in function form, with error checking and depth control. You > can hand in a positive number to get that number of layers deep, or a > negative number to go all the way down. I tested it on my home directory > and it came back fine (after some time). I haven't (knowingly) tested with > unusual characters. > > on mouseUp > put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of > scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" > end mouseUp > > function directoryListing whatFolder,c > put whatFolder & cr into R > set the directory to whatFolder > if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R > put the files into tFileList > sort tFileList > replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList > put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R > put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList > sort tDirList > repeat for each line L in tDirList > put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R > end repeat > return R > end directoryListing > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < >> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: >> >>> I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list >>> and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. >>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html >>> >> >> Man, do I hate looking at my old code... >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:21:41 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:21:41 +0200 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562FC0B5.5060600@gmail.com> On 27/10/15 17:23, Heather Laine wrote: > Hmmm. Do I have to add cherries to the list of things that are not permitted to be discussed on this list? > > /\ > O O > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > I'd give a lot for a glass of Kirsch at this point. Richmond. > >> On 27 Oct 2015, at 14:11, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> >> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> >>> On 10/25/2015 12:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>>> Make your own cherry with LCB and give the first couple of versions away >>>> for free. Then somewhere just after version 3 you could sell a more >>>> expensive chocolate-covered version and call it Cherry Pi. >>>> >>> That's an irrational idea. >> Actually, it's a transcendental idea. :-) >> >> -- Peter >> >> Peter M. Brigham >> pmbrig at gmail.com >> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:22:15 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:22:15 +0200 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562FC0D7.8020508@gmail.com> On 27/10/15 17:25, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-27 16:23, Heather Laine wrote: >> Hmmm. Do I have to add cherries to the list of things that are not >> permitted to be discussed on this list? >> >> /\ >> O O > > That won't work though - a new synonym will just be added and used > instead ;) > > Mark. > Morellos. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:25:03 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:25:03 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <562BAD62.5020004@fourthworld.com> <7461D6A0-32CD-4920-BCAE-57654B67F818@livecode.com> <31c6f306edadde31367bf8a4d30b40fb@livecode.com> <562BEE61.4080708@ahsoftware.net> <960af142be4a645c5d22e771aa4093d6@livecode.com> <0037644a1bf83ce0c927c9e097122d96@livecode.com> <562E70AC.1040809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562FC17F.10306@gmail.com> On 27/10/15 18:25, Bob Sneidar wrote: > On Oct 27, 2015, at 02:11 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: > > On 2015-10-26 19:27, Richmond wrote: No, Richmond didn't: another wise chap did: and I completely agree with him. Cerdit is not due to me on this one. > I would love LiveCode NOT to understand the uncertainty of me. Computers > should not be behave being as ambiguous as we humans are. > > Quite - nor should programming languages be ambiguous. Indeed, for them to be useful at all they need to be entirely unambiguous. > > > I've always said that what facinates developers so much about computers is that it is a microcosm of predictability. In the real world you can do everything right and have it turn out oh, so wrong. Not with software development. When the wolves of reality have us cowering amidst the bushes of uncertainty, (wow that was really good!) we can always run to our brick houses of Software Development. If something goes wrong, it's our fault, plain and simple. But we can still fix it! What's not to love about that?? ;-) > > Bob S > > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:26:43 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:26:43 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> On 27/10/15 19:01, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> On 2015-10-26 17:36, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> I'm fine with whatever there's budget to provide to let folks explore >>> novel syntax, even more so with your reminder here that Open Language >>> is among the last of the enhancements in queue, long after being able >>> to play a video file on Linux without crashing and other less >>> glamorous but useful things. >> >> Unfortunately, language and features are intertwined. You can't have >> features without a way to access them, and a language with no features >> is useless. > > Maybe my tastes are too savage, but personally I'm fine with the > existing syntax for player controls. > My tastes are extremely savage: I cannot see anything really wrong with the syntax for anything, and don't see the need for a multiplicity of synonyms. Richmond. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 14:29:17 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:29:17 +0000 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.1 for Atom editor In-Reply-To: References: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> <1FFEEBC3-8292-4D40-8EC0-E26800226312@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <9427DDE6-4F7D-4782-BDD7-90938F9A28E4@iotecdigital.com> Sweet! Just tried it and it works. Simple really. I had in mind the idea of using Applescript to get and set the contents of a new window, but text is for some really odd reason *NOT* a property of a window in Atom, as it is in TextEdit. Now the trick is to figure out how to tell Atom to treat it as a Livecode Script. Bob S On Oct 27, 2015, at 09:59 , Peter Haworth > wrote: There is - STS MLXEditor Pete From pete at lcsql.com Tue Oct 27 14:32:35 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:32:35 -0700 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.1 for Atom editor In-Reply-To: <9427DDE6-4F7D-4782-BDD7-90938F9A28E4@iotecdigital.com> References: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> <1FFEEBC3-8292-4D40-8EC0-E26800226312@iotecdigital.com> <9427DDE6-4F7D-4782-BDD7-90938F9A28E4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Configure the file extension to be used by MXLEditor to be ".livecodescript" Pete lcSQL Software Home of lcStackBrowser and SQLiteAdmin On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Sweet! Just tried it and it works. Simple really. I had in mind the idea > of using Applescript to get and set the contents of a new window, but text > is for some really odd reason *NOT* a property of a window in Atom, as it > is in TextEdit. > > Now the trick is to figure out how to tell Atom to treat it as a Livecode > Script. > > Bob S > > > On Oct 27, 2015, at 09:59 , Peter Haworth pete at lcsql.com>> wrote: > > There is - STS MLXEditor > > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 14:35:45 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:35:45 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562FB2FA.9080403@fourthworld.com> References: <562FB2FA.9080403@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <401629476644d5b2e8ba5f4c835b65a9@livecode.com> On 2015-10-27 18:23, Richard Gaskin wrote: > One thing most of us have in common here is that we need to ship > applications. Very few of us (zero?) are responsible for drafting > BNFs. Indeed - but then perhaps that's the difference between people using a programming language and those responsible for maintaining and evolving it. > In OOP we could make snapshots a class, so the values specifying them > could be expressed as name-value pairs through instance variables - > but who wants to use a language where you need to instantiate a math > class just to add two numbers? :) OOP is fine where OOP is fine, but > OOP isn't xTalk. Well, I think you misrepresent how OOP languages work there - as they don't tend to require you to instantiate a 'math' class just to add two numbers. (Although some do take 'purity' to an almost unusable extent). In any case, OOP isn't really a language, it is just a set of patterns and ideas which are one good way to structure languages and think about software. (And OOP principals are definitely there in xTalks they are just not generally visible day-to-day). > In LC, we see increasing use of arrays for name-value pairs (e.g. > clipboardData, etc.), and if it were important for someone to simplify > some aspects of making snapshots they could easily craft a handler > that takes an array to do that in just a couple minutes. Indeed - name-value pairs are used for 'the clipboardData' and other devices... Although I'd might suggest only because there is a lack of ability to be able to code the syntax that might be more appropriate: e.g. set the styledText of the clipboard to ... > So maybe I'm too easy to please, but I think the current syntax for > snapshots is OK. It works - but a lot of people get tripped up by it all the time (costing individuals time figuring out why things don't work, others on the lists when they respond to questions on the lists about why their command doesn't work how they expect, and bug reports to us when they think there's an issue). Now, whilst perhaps a better dictionary entry might help a bit... This situation does suggest to me the syntax could be better and more accessible. > Back in the day Brian Molyneaux of Heizer Software noted the same > thing about xTalks. Just too loosey-goosey for that sort of thing. Well I'm sorry to say that he was wrong as far as I'm concerned. Indeed, thinking that xTalks have no place for formality might be perhaps at least (a small) part of the reason why most of them have disappeared? > Fortunately, my job is to make software, not BNFs, and LiveCode lets me > do that. My job is to make software too - software that allows others to make software. Aspects like rigorously definable semantics and rigorous specification of syntax are things that help me do that. Just like having the features you need working in the way you need them to help you to do that. If life were simple, it probably wouldn't be as much fun :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 14:36:25 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:36:25 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <562FC0D7.8020508@gmail.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> <562FC0D7.8020508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <82476a21f3e9f13ceafa7962ee1d3236@livecode.com> On 2015-10-27 19:22, Richmond wrote: > Morellos. I had morello cherry pie for dessert the other night... It was delicious :) Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 14:36:24 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:36:24 +0000 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.1 for Atom editor In-Reply-To: References: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> <1FFEEBC3-8292-4D40-8EC0-E26800226312@iotecdigital.com> <9427DDE6-4F7D-4782-BDD7-90938F9A28E4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Works a peach and thanks a ton! You smaat guy! Vewy smaat! Bob S On Oct 27, 2015, at 11:32 , Peter Haworth > wrote: Configure the file extension to be used by MXLEditor to be ".livecodescript" Pete lcSQL Software From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 14:39:18 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:39:18 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> On 2015-10-27 19:26, Richmond wrote: > My tastes are extremely savage: I cannot see anything really wrong > with the syntax for anything, > and don't see the need for a multiplicity of synonyms. Well, that's the current state of play - which isn't really the topic of conversation here - it is about the future. So would you be happy if all future functionality of the language were implemented as function calls and commands (a la Visual Basic 6)? (This is actually a serious question!) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 14:40:38 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:40:38 +0100 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <82476a21f3e9f13ceafa7962ee1d3236@livecode.com> References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> <562FC0D7.8020508@gmail.com> <82476a21f3e9f13ceafa7962ee1d3236@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-27 19:36, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-27 19:22, Richmond wrote: >> Morellos. > > I had morello cherry pie for dessert the other night... It was > delicious :) Perhaps I should have written - 'morello cherry pi' - it put my taste-buds into a transcendental state. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 15:22:42 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:22:42 +0100 Subject: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI =?UTF-8?Q?scaling=3F?= In-Reply-To: <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <7bc36bfa7882646eb71cd5db15d8e42a@livecode.com> On 2015-10-27 14:56, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Thanks Mark for jumping in! > If I understood you correct, things even get crisper and not blurred > with > Hi-DPI enabled on a Hi-DPI monitor and keep as they are on a standard > monitor. So my conclusion would be to enable it always by standard > (since it > is anyway standard on OS X) Yes - this is the ideal situation :) > What could be a reason not to enable Hi-DPI scaling on Windows or with > other > words, why is it an option? Ah - well - the APIs we currently use on Windows are a bit of a dinosaur in terms text rendering. We still use 'GDI' which has the unfortunate problem that text does not linearly scale. What this means is that the size of a piece of text rendered with GDI at scale factor 1.0 is not necessarily the same as the same text rendered at scale factor 2.0. This is down to the TrueType hinting and other methods it employs which you cannot actually turn off (this hinting can be quite aggressive - its goal was to ensure text rendered at low screen resolutions was still highly readable without anti-aliasing - and tends to alter the horizontal width to varying degrees for different fonts). We've not actually managed to find a way to solve this problem 'well' yet - particularly as we still have to support XP (given its market share is still quite considerable!). So, you do need to check your app in Hi-DPI mode on windows (by adjusting the text scale factor in settings, as previously mentioned) and make sure it still looks the way you need it to. You *can* try and set the 'useIdealLayout' property of the stack if there are visual problems - this will make the text render in the appropriately 'linearly scalable' way. However, it does have a performance and visual difference impact - the text will be slightly fuzzier, and will take a little longer to render. Hope this helps! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Oct 27 15:30:59 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:30:59 -0400 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.1 for Atom editor In-Reply-To: References: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> <1FFEEBC3-8292-4D40-8EC0-E26800226312@iotecdigital.com> <9427DDE6-4F7D-4782-BDD7-90938F9A28E4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I think you can also name them .lc, right? I've also found that putting wrote: > Works a peach and thanks a ton! You smaat guy! Vewy smaat! > > Bob S > On Oct 27, 2015, at 11:32 , Peter Haworth pete at lcsql.com>> wrote: > > Configure the file extension to be used by MXLEditor to be > ".livecodescript" > > Pete > lcSQL Software > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Oct 27 15:39:15 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:39:15 -0400 Subject: [OT] GUI templates In-Reply-To: <562E79EB.2080909@gmail.com> References: <562E79EB.2080909@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes. I would like to see more goodies. I'm most definitely not an artist. Icons are also a challenge. On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Richmond wrote: > https://pixelbuddha.net/freebies/tag/ui-kits > > look like fun. > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From lists at mangomultimedia.com Tue Oct 27 15:40:41 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:40:41 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > So would you be happy if all future functionality of the language were > implemented as function calls and commands (a la Visual Basic 6)? (This is > actually a serious question!) NOOOOOO! I'm patiently waiting for Open Language :-) -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From mikedoub at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 15:43:35 2015 From: mikedoub at gmail.com (Michael Doub) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:43:35 -0400 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> Geoff, I would suggest replacing the first statement of the function with if c is empty then put -1 into c -- set the default to go all the way down put whatFolder & "/" & cr into R -- add a "/" to directory output so they are more easily parsed later -= Mike On 10/27/15 12:18 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Revised. Now in function form, with error checking and depth control. You > can hand in a positive number to get that number of layers deep, or a > negative number to go all the way down. I tested it on my home directory > and it came back fine (after some time). I haven't (knowingly) tested with > unusual characters. > > on mouseUp > put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of > scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" > end mouseUp > > function directoryListing whatFolder,c > put whatFolder & cr into R > set the directory to whatFolder > if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R > put the files into tFileList > sort tFileList > replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList > put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R > put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList > sort tDirList > repeat for each line L in tDirList > put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R > end repeat > return R > end directoryListing > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < >> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: >> >>> I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list >>> and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. >>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html >>> >> Man, do I hate looking at my old code... >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 27 15:45:19 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:45:19 -0700 Subject: Home servers, anyone? Message-ID: <562FD44F.90000@fourthworld.com> Most of my servers have fixed IP addresses, but I'm about to add one to my home where the IP will be dynamic. The most common solution for making servers with dynamic IPs findable is DDNS, and there are of course many free providers of such a service. Put since this isn't a public server (just for testing and experimentation) I'll be the only user, and it occurs to me I could take a few minutes to craft a simple solution to know the server's current IP by using a CGI at one of my sites hosted with real DNS in conjunction with an auto-run app on the server to call it similar to what many DDNS services use. I'm inclined to do that only because I like tinkering, but I thought I'd check in here to see if this very specific use case was something others might have a need for. If so, I might get around to documenting the CGI and sharing it, but since most folks just use DDNS I'd guess this 302-based workaround is probably too use-case specific to be of interest. If I'm wrong let me know and that'll motivate me to get around to documenting it that much sooner. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Oct 27 15:50:26 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:50:26 -0700 Subject: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? In-Reply-To: <7bc36bfa7882646eb71cd5db15d8e42a@livecode.com> References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> <7bc36bfa7882646eb71cd5db15d8e42a@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hold on -- "useIdealLayout" is a real property? When l think of all the years I wasted fiddling with the design of projects... on clientRequest create stack put it into theStack set the useIdealLayout of theStack to true save theStack deliver theStack send "vacation" to me in 5 seconds end clientRequest Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/27/15, 12:22 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham" wrote: >You *can* try and set the 'useIdealLayout' property of the stack if >there are visual problems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 15:52:01 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:52:01 +0000 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: <562FD44F.90000@fourthworld.com> References: <562FD44F.90000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Just create a reservation in your DHCP server so that the server always gets the same address. Bob S On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:45 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: Most of my servers have fixed IP addresses, but I'm about to add one to my home where the IP will be dynamic. The most common solution for making servers with dynamic IPs findable is DDNS, and there are of course many free providers of such a service. Put since this isn't a public server (just for testing and experimentation) I'll be the only user, and it occurs to me I could take a few minutes to craft a simple solution to know the server's current IP by using a CGI at one of my sites hosted with real DNS in conjunction with an auto-run app on the server to call it similar to what many DDNS services use. I'm inclined to do that only because I like tinkering, but I thought I'd check in here to see if this very specific use case was something others might have a need for. If so, I might get around to documenting the CGI and sharing it, but since most folks just use DDNS I'd guess this 302-based workaround is probably too use-case specific to be of interest. If I'm wrong let me know and that'll motivate me to get around to documenting it that much sooner. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 15:53:41 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:53:41 +0000 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <2D92C770-DAB3-4C92-A361-2B91B94CA88C@gmail.com> <562D01EF.9060702@gmail.com> <783B81A4-E2A6-4AF1-8F03-BF354E2E8E23@runrev.com> <562D0D21.8050202@ahsoftware.net> <562D2C6B.7040908@hyperactivesw.com> <562D68CA.8070602@ahsoftware.net> <4E247E3C-BBF6-4C7F-9C39-24A4F7DD8600@gmail.com> <562FC0D7.8020508@gmail.com> <82476a21f3e9f13ceafa7962ee1d3236@livecode.com> Message-ID: <31ECCC6F-57A2-4E51-B4B2-A111E81EE14D@iotecdigital.com> That is to say, an irrational one. ;-) Bob S On Oct 27, 2015, at 11:40 , Mark Waddingham > wrote: On 2015-10-27 19:36, Mark Waddingham wrote: On 2015-10-27 19:22, Richmond wrote: Morellos. I had morello cherry pie for dessert the other night... It was delicious :) Perhaps I should have written - 'morello cherry pi' - it put my taste-buds into a transcendental state. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham From mark at livecode.com Tue Oct 27 15:58:34 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:58:34 +0100 Subject: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI =?UTF-8?Q?scaling=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> <7bc36bfa7882646eb71cd5db15d8e42a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5a4c5fc8196b25f2ec8b7732ebb03ec8@livecode.com> On 2015-10-27 20:50, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hold on -- "useIdealLayout" is a real property? When l think of all > the > years I wasted fiddling with the design of projects... > > on clientRequest > create stack > put it into theStack > set the useIdealLayout of theStack to true > save theStack > deliver theStack > send "vacation" to me in 5 seconds > end clientRequest Haha - unfortunately it is nowhere near as impressive as that! It causes text (on Windows) to be rendered as a path internally, and then painted to the target - this means that it doesn't suffer the 'changing metrics' problem. It is actually what 'formatForPrinting' now sits on (on Windows) - meaning you can actually show a nice accurate print preview of layout of a stack without the drawbacks of that mode which used to exist (many versions ago). Of course, I think I just noticed it never made it into the dictionary... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 27 16:02:04 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:02:04 -0700 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562FD83C.5080703@fourthworld.com> Yes, that needs to be done locally so the router can router traffic to the appropriate machine, but the issue I'm dealing with is when the ISP doles out a new IP address for the router (with DSL that's usually every router reboot, and for cable less frequently but often enough to make depending on a given IP address impractical). -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > Bob Sneidar bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com > Just create a reservation in your DHCP server so that the server always gets the same address. > > Bob S > > > On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:45 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > Most of my servers have fixed IP addresses, but I'm about to add one to my home where the IP will be dynamic. > > The most common solution for making servers with dynamic IPs findable is DDNS, and there are of course many free providers of such a service. > > Put since this isn't a public server (just for testing and experimentation) I'll be the only user, and it occurs to me I could take a few minutes to craft a simple solution to know the server's current IP by using a CGI at one of my sites hosted with real DNS in conjunction with an auto-run app on the server to call it similar to what many DDNS services use. > > I'm inclined to do that only because I like tinkering, but I thought I'd check in here to see if this very specific use case was something others might have a need for. If so, I might get around to documenting the CGI and sharing it, but since most folks just use DDNS I'd guess this 302-based workaround is probably too use-case specific to be of interest. If I'm wrong let me know and that'll motivate me to get around to documenting it that much sooner. From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Oct 27 16:01:17 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:01:17 -0700 Subject: [OT] Netflix Using Card/Stack Metaphor in Branding Message-ID: Fun observation for LiveCoders: Netflix recently rolled out a new global identity that relies on a metaphor of cards in a stack. https://vimeo.com/140261016 Details are available here: http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_global_identity_for _netflix_by_gretel.php Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 16:22:32 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:22:32 +0000 Subject: [OT] Netflix Using Card/Stack Metaphor in Branding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <341B0D27-D9E1-403B-8E03-52166379849C@iotecdigital.com> What a stupid idea! Who would adopt a metaphor like that?? ;-) Bob S On Oct 27, 2015, at 13:01 , Scott Rossi > wrote: Fun observation for LiveCoders: Netflix recently rolled out a new global identity that relies on a metaphor of cards in a stack. https://vimeo.com/140261016 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Oct 27 16:26:17 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:26:17 -0500 Subject: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? In-Reply-To: <5a4c5fc8196b25f2ec8b7732ebb03ec8@livecode.com> References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> <7bc36bfa7882646eb71cd5db15d8e42a@livecode.com> <5a4c5fc8196b25f2ec8b7732ebb03ec8@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562FDDE9.4030901@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/27/2015 2:58 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > It causes text (on Windows) to be rendered as a path internally, and > then painted to the target - this means that it doesn't suffer the > 'changing metrics' problem. It is actually what 'formatForPrinting' now > sits on (on Windows) - meaning you can actually show a nice accurate > print preview of layout of a stack without the drawbacks of that mode > which used to exist (many versions ago). > > Of course, I think I just noticed it never made it into the dictionary... I didn't even have to think, I looked it up and it wasn't there. :) But since you're (presumably) about to add the term, is there a better word for it? Something indicating "text" somehow? Anyone looking for a property like that would probably do a search for "text". -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 16:27:54 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:27:54 +0000 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: <562FD83C.5080703@fourthworld.com> References: <562FD83C.5080703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: OIC. I'm assuming you've spoken with the ISP about a fixed address. If it's a home level DSL, they won't want to do that, because technically you aren't supposed to be running a server. The best way to go about this is to set up an authoratative DNS server for your "domain". Here's a good article on the subject. http://www.boutell.com/innards/authoritativedns.html Bob S On Oct 27, 2015, at 13:02 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: Yes, that needs to be done locally so the router can router traffic to the appropriate machine, but the issue I'm dealing with is when the ISP doles out a new IP address for the router (with DSL that's usually every router reboot, and for cable less frequently but often enough to make depending on a given IP address impractical). -- Richard Gaskin From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Oct 27 16:32:47 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:32:47 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: I was not able to get the mouseUp handler to work but I got the function to return a list but it probably not the same list. I used this. on mouseUp answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" put it into whatFolder --put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" put directoryListing(whatFolder,2) into fld id 342435 end mouseUp Any suggestions? JB > On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Michael Doub wrote: > > Geoff, > > I would suggest replacing the first statement of the function with > > if c is empty then put -1 into c -- set the default to go all the way down > put whatFolder & "/" & cr into R -- add a "/" to directory output so they are more easily parsed later > > -= Mike > > > On 10/27/15 12:18 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> Revised. Now in function form, with error checking and depth control. You >> can hand in a positive number to get that number of layers deep, or a >> negative number to go all the way down. I tested it on my home directory >> and it came back fine (after some time). I haven't (knowingly) tested with >> unusual characters. >> >> on mouseUp >> put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of >> scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" >> end mouseUp >> >> function directoryListing whatFolder,c >> put whatFolder & cr into R >> set the directory to whatFolder >> if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R >> put the files into tFileList >> sort tFileList >> replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList >> put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R >> put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList >> sort tDirList >> repeat for each line L in tDirList >> put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R >> end repeat >> return R >> end directoryListing >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < >>> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: >>> >>>> I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list >>>> and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html >>>> >>> Man, do I hate looking at my old code... >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Oct 27 16:39:36 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:39:36 -0400 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: <562FD44F.90000@fourthworld.com> References: <562FD44F.90000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I know someone that had a dynamic setup like you describe. It was simple and easy for 1 person access. He had a local script checking the IP every 5 or 10 minutes (at home). When it no longer matched the last known IP, the script would write a small text file TO A WEB SERVER that was hosting a site he owns. Then from anywhere, he could access that file to find his way back home (so to speak). ~Roger On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Most of my servers have fixed IP addresses, but I'm about to add one to my > home where the IP will be dynamic. > > The most common solution for making servers with dynamic IPs findable is > DDNS, and there are of course many free providers of such a service. > > Put since this isn't a public server (just for testing and > experimentation) I'll be the only user, and it occurs to me I could take a > few minutes to craft a simple solution to know the server's current IP by > using a CGI at one of my sites hosted with real DNS in conjunction with an > auto-run app on the server to call it similar to what many DDNS services > use. > > I'm inclined to do that only because I like tinkering, but I thought I'd > check in here to see if this very specific use case was something others > might have a need for. If so, I might get around to documenting the CGI > and sharing it, but since most folks just use DDNS I'd guess this 302-based > workaround is probably too use-case specific to be of interest. If I'm > wrong let me know and that'll motivate me to get around to documenting it > that much sooner. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gspearson at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 16:44:22 2015 From: gspearson at gmail.com (Graham Pearson) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:44:22 -0400 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <562FD83C.5080703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6399EAAF-54B9-4CEA-A584-1355C2A4F01B@gmail.com> I it an entry in my domain for the server and use a script that updates the record in DNS anytime it changes. I use DNSMadeEasy for DNS services. Very easy to do Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 27, 2015, at 4:27 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > OIC. I'm assuming you've spoken with the ISP about a fixed address. If it's a home level DSL, they won't want to do that, because technically you aren't supposed to be running a server. > > The best way to go about this is to set up an authoratative DNS server for your "domain". Here's a good article on the subject. > > http://www.boutell.com/innards/authoritativedns.html > > Bob S > > > On Oct 27, 2015, at 13:02 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > Yes, that needs to be done locally so the router can router traffic to the appropriate machine, but the issue I'm dealing with is when the ISP doles out a new IP address for the router (with DSL that's usually every router reboot, and for cable less frequently but often enough to make depending on a given IP address impractical). > > -- > Richard Gaskin > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 16:48:11 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 22:48:11 +0200 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> Message-ID: <562FE30B.4080700@gmail.com> On 27/10/15 20:39, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-27 19:26, Richmond wrote: >> My tastes are extremely savage: I cannot see anything really wrong >> with the syntax for anything, >> and don't see the need for a multiplicity of synonyms. > > Well, that's the current state of play - which isn't really the topic > of conversation here - it is about the future. > > So would you be happy if all future functionality of the language were > implemented as function calls and commands (a la Visual Basic 6)? > (This is actually a serious question!) I thought offensive terms such as 'Visual Basic' weren't permitted on this Use-List. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 27 17:11:11 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:11:11 -0700 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562FE86F.1010801@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > OIC. I'm assuming you've spoken with the ISP about a fixed address. I have a convenient 5-IP package at the office, but the price to get that at home is way more than I'd care to pay, even for a single fixed IP, since they only offer that for commercial services. > If it's a home level DSL, they won't want to do that, because > technically you aren't supposed to be running a server. Some DLS ISPs don't care because that's provided over a dedicate copper pair like the old POTS. AT&T, for example, tells me straight up that if I wanted to run a farm of Minecraft servers on my DSL service that's okay with them (of course they may just be relying on the knowledge that their DSL speeds are too slow for running any public server ). Historically cable had prohibited servers because coax is shared with neighbors. But I'm finding more and more cable co's are so hurting from backlash against the increasingly famous customer service (if you live outside the US you have no idea how bad it is here) that they're opening up on that, allowing at least personal home servers (and with the growing interest in NAS/private clouds it makes good sense). In my case I went the extra mile and got explicit permission from my ISP, but for the super-low traffic load I'm anticipating from my tests I'd doubt they would have noticed anyway. > The best way to go about this is to set up an authoratative DNS server for your "domain". Here's a good article on the subject. > > http://www.boutell.com/innards/authoritativedns.html I thought about that, but then I'd have to add DDSN under it and in general I try to avoid having to maintain services beyond what I'm working on. I'm happy to leave DNS, SMTP, etc to others to take care of for me so I can spend my time on HTTP. Well, that and some superfluous LiveCode, of course. :) Roger Eller wrote: > I know someone that had a dynamic setup like you describe. It was > simple and easy for 1 person access. > > He had a local script checking the IP every 5 or 10 minutes (at home). > When it no longer matched the last known IP, the script would write > a small text file TO A WEB SERVER that was hosting a site he owns. > Then from anywhere, he could access that file to find his way back > home (so to speak). Exactly. I figured a quickie app to POST the current IP on boot from the client would suffice for the cable service I have, and when accessing it the web server CGI can reply with a 302 header based on what it got from the home server's POST to automatically forward me to it. It would probably be even simple and more useful to just use a DDNS service like DNSMadeEasy as Graham suggested. But that would still leave one feature missing: superfluous LiveCode. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Oct 27 18:18:01 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 22:18:01 +0000 Subject: Transparency of disabled objects Message-ID: <9152619E-7075-48F5-8240-E30454F9E5CC@iotecdigital.com> The subject was broached a while back about how disabled objects can become semi transparent, an undesired effect. In case it wasn't covered, I found a quick workaround. Set one of the RGB values of the backgroundColor to 254 instead of 255. It's not visibly noticable, but will make the object opaque again even if disabled. Bob S From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Oct 27 19:36:39 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:36:39 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you have already put a directory listing in a field and want to click a line to get the list of that line you can put this code in the field. on mouseUp put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into whatFolder put directoryListing(whatFolder,2) --into fld id 342435 end mouseUp function directoryListing whatFolder,c put whatFolder & cr into R set the directory to whatFolder if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R put the files into tFileList sort tFileList replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList sort tDirList repeat for each line L in tDirList put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R end repeat return R end directoryListing JB > On Oct 27, 2015, at 1:32 PM, JB wrote: > > I was not able to get the mouseUp handler to > work but I got the function to return a list but it > probably not the same list. I used this. > > on mouseUp > answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" > put it into whatFolder > --put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" > put directoryListing(whatFolder,2) into fld id 342435 > end mouseUp > > Any suggestions? > > JB > > > >> On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Michael Doub wrote: >> >> Geoff, >> >> I would suggest replacing the first statement of the function with >> >> if c is empty then put -1 into c -- set the default to go all the way down >> put whatFolder & "/" & cr into R -- add a "/" to directory output so they are more easily parsed later >> >> -= Mike >> >> >> On 10/27/15 12:18 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>> Revised. Now in function form, with error checking and depth control. You >>> can hand in a positive number to get that number of layers deep, or a >>> negative number to go all the way down. I tested it on my home directory >>> and it came back fine (after some time). I haven't (knowingly) tested with >>> unusual characters. >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of >>> scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> function directoryListing whatFolder,c >>> put whatFolder & cr into R >>> set the directory to whatFolder >>> if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R >>> put the files into tFileList >>> sort tFileList >>> replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList >>> put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R >>> put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList >>> sort tDirList >>> repeat for each line L in tDirList >>> put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R >>> end repeat >>> return R >>> end directoryListing >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < >>>> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list >>>>> and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html >>>>> >>>> Man, do I hate looking at my old code... >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Oct 27 19:40:12 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:40:12 +1100 Subject: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.1 for Atom editor In-Reply-To: References: <562FA880.9040806@livecode.com> <1FFEEBC3-8292-4D40-8EC0-E26800226312@iotecdigital.com> <9427DDE6-4F7D-4782-BDD7-90938F9A28E4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: From the readme: ? LiveCode Builder source code in .lcb files ? LiveCode server source code in .lc and .irev files ? LiveCode Script source code in .livecodescript files, where the shebang line containslivecode or the first line contains an Emacs mode comment # -*- mode:livecodescript -*- I would recommend following Pete?s advice and use the *.livecodescript extension for STSMLX. You don?t want your script to be recognised as iRev if it is just an object script. At least not if you are using the linter for script errors because the three supported grammars are each handled differently. LCS just sets the script of an object, iRev comments out all include and require commands (we don?t want to lint the entire web app) and includes the file, LCB calls lc-compile with no output file (but you still get interface files generated). The other options to let atom know it is a LCS file are to have a shebang or Emacs mode comment on the first line as seen above but the extension is obviously the simplest thing to do. Cheers Monte > On 28 Oct 2015, at 6:30 am, Mike Kerner wrote: > > I think you can also name them .lc, right? I've also found that > putting > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > >> Works a peach and thanks a ton! You smaat guy! Vewy smaat! >> >> Bob S >> On Oct 27, 2015, at 11:32 , Peter Haworth > pete at lcsql.com>> wrote: >> >> Configure the file extension to be used by MXLEditor to be >> ".livecodescript" >> >> Pete >> lcSQL Software >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Oct 27 20:27:35 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:27:35 -0700 Subject: User Guide: Call for Errata Message-ID: <56301677.7050907@fourthworld.com> With v8 coming up the User Guide will be completely rewritten, but in the meantime there's interest in having the existing User Guide updated for the remainder of the v7 series. I'm evaluating whether I can make time for this myself, and the scope should make it doable since for this first pass we're only looking for errors and omissions. Some of you have expressed some strong opinions about the User Guide being out of date, so this is your chance to shine: To make sure we cover any errors and omissions you've seen, please send a brief description with the page number to me at the email address below. Thanks - -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From jhj at jhj.com Tue Oct 27 23:05:03 2015 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:05:03 -0700 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <562FD44F.90000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I?m doing a similar thing, but writing the current IP# to a particular dropbox file that is shared with me. > On Oct 27, 2015, at 1:39 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > > I know someone that had a dynamic setup like you describe. It was simple > and easy for 1 person access. > > He had a local script checking the IP every 5 or 10 minutes (at home). > When it no longer matched the last known IP, the script would write a small > text file TO A WEB SERVER that was hosting a site he owns. Then from > anywhere, he could access that file to find his way back home (so to speak). > > ~Roger > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Most of my servers have fixed IP addresses, but I'm about to add one to my >> home where the IP will be dynamic. >> >> The most common solution for making servers with dynamic IPs findable is >> DDNS, and there are of course many free providers of such a service. >> >> Put since this isn't a public server (just for testing and >> experimentation) I'll be the only user, and it occurs to me I could take a >> few minutes to craft a simple solution to know the server's current IP by >> using a CGI at one of my sites hosted with real DNS in conjunction with an >> auto-run app on the server to call it similar to what many DDNS services >> use. >> >> I'm inclined to do that only because I like tinkering, but I thought I'd >> check in here to see if this very specific use case was something others >> might have a need for. If so, I might get around to documenting the CGI >> and sharing it, but since most folks just use DDNS I'd guess this 302-based >> workaround is probably too use-case specific to be of interest. If I'm >> wrong let me know and that'll motivate me to get around to documenting it >> that much sooner. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Oct 27 23:12:22 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 23:12:22 -0400 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <562FD44F.90000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I almost suggested phx_dropboxlib for that (just to keep it in LiveCode). On Oct 27, 2015 11:05 PM, "Jerry Jensen" wrote: > I?m doing a similar thing, but writing the current IP# to a particular > dropbox file that is shared with me. > > > On Oct 27, 2015, at 1:39 PM, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > > I know someone that had a dynamic setup like you describe. It was simple > > and easy for 1 person access. > > > > He had a local script checking the IP every 5 or 10 minutes (at home). > > When it no longer matched the last known IP, the script would write a > small > > text file TO A WEB SERVER that was hosting a site he owns. Then from > > anywhere, he could access that file to find his way back home (so to > speak). > > > > ~Roger > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Most of my servers have fixed IP addresses, but I'm about to add one to > my > >> home where the IP will be dynamic. > >> > >> The most common solution for making servers with dynamic IPs findable is > >> DDNS, and there are of course many free providers of such a service. > >> > >> Put since this isn't a public server (just for testing and > >> experimentation) I'll be the only user, and it occurs to me I could > take a > >> few minutes to craft a simple solution to know the server's current IP > by > >> using a CGI at one of my sites hosted with real DNS in conjunction with > an > >> auto-run app on the server to call it similar to what many DDNS services > >> use. > >> > >> I'm inclined to do that only because I like tinkering, but I thought I'd > >> check in here to see if this very specific use case was something others > >> might have a need for. If so, I might get around to documenting the CGI > >> and sharing it, but since most folks just use DDNS I'd guess this > 302-based > >> workaround is probably too use-case specific to be of interest. If I'm > >> wrong let me know and that'll motivate me to get around to documenting > it > >> that much sooner. > >> > >> -- > >> Richard Gaskin > >> Fourth World Systems > >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > >> ____________________________________________________________________ > >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jhj at jhj.com Tue Oct 27 23:28:52 2015 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:28:52 -0700 Subject: Home servers, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <562FD44F.90000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7D837572-B9D2-488F-883F-A03C383A51BA@jhj.com> I just pick it out of a shell(?ifconfig?). I have something running all the time on that machine - its taking data and sending it to me also on dropbox. A cron-ish job could do it just as easily. > On Oct 27, 2015, at 8:12 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > > I almost suggested phx_dropboxlib for that (just to keep it in LiveCode). > On Oct 27, 2015 11:05 PM, "Jerry Jensen" wrote: > >> I?m doing a similar thing, but writing the current IP# to a particular >> dropbox file that is shared with me. >> >>> On Oct 27, 2015, at 1:39 PM, Roger Eller >> wrote: >>> >>> I know someone that had a dynamic setup like you describe. It was simple >>> and easy for 1 person access. >>> >>> He had a local script checking the IP every 5 or 10 minutes (at home). >>> When it no longer matched the last known IP, the script would write a >> small >>> text file TO A WEB SERVER that was hosting a site he owns. Then from >>> anywhere, he could access that file to find his way back home (so to >> speak). >>> >>> ~Roger >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Richard Gaskin < >> ambassador at fourthworld.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Most of my servers have fixed IP addresses, but I'm about to add one to >> my >>>> home where the IP will be dynamic. >>>> >>>> The most common solution for making servers with dynamic IPs findable is >>>> DDNS, and there are of course many free providers of such a service. >>>> >>>> Put since this isn't a public server (just for testing and >>>> experimentation) I'll be the only user, and it occurs to me I could >> take a >>>> few minutes to craft a simple solution to know the server's current IP >> by >>>> using a CGI at one of my sites hosted with real DNS in conjunction with >> an >>>> auto-run app on the server to call it similar to what many DDNS services >>>> use. >>>> >>>> I'm inclined to do that only because I like tinkering, but I thought I'd >>>> check in here to see if this very specific use case was something others >>>> might have a need for. If so, I might get around to documenting the CGI >>>> and sharing it, but since most folks just use DDNS I'd guess this >> 302-based >>>> workaround is probably too use-case specific to be of interest. If I'm >>>> wrong let me know and that'll motivate me to get around to documenting >> it >>>> that much sooner. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> Fourth World Systems >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Wed Oct 28 03:59:03 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 08:59:03 +0100 Subject: AW: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? In-Reply-To: <7bc36bfa7882646eb71cd5db15d8e42a@livecode.com> References: <006d01d10fd3$f72f3fc0$e58dbf40$@kestner.de> <901a4b8e333e8bca9e568434b76a9654@livecode.com> <009901d110bf$4a0a1df0$de1e59d0$@kestner.de> <7bc36bfa7882646eb71cd5db15d8e42a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <001501d11156$839eff30$8adcfd90$@kestner.de> Thanks for the detailed explanations! Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Oktober 2015 20:23 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? On 2015-10-27 14:56, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Thanks Mark for jumping in! > If I understood you correct, things even get crisper and not blurred > with Hi-DPI enabled on a Hi-DPI monitor and keep as they are on a > standard monitor. So my conclusion would be to enable it always by > standard (since it is anyway standard on OS X) Yes - this is the ideal situation :) > What could be a reason not to enable Hi-DPI scaling on Windows or with > other words, why is it an option? Ah - well - the APIs we currently use on Windows are a bit of a dinosaur in terms text rendering. We still use 'GDI' which has the unfortunate problem that text does not linearly scale. What this means is that the size of a piece of text rendered with GDI at scale factor 1.0 is not necessarily the same as the same text rendered at scale factor 2.0. This is down to the TrueType hinting and other methods it employs which you cannot actually turn off (this hinting can be quite aggressive - its goal was to ensure text rendered at low screen resolutions was still highly readable without anti-aliasing - and tends to alter the horizontal width to varying degrees for different fonts). We've not actually managed to find a way to solve this problem 'well' yet - particularly as we still have to support XP (given its market share is still quite considerable!). So, you do need to check your app in Hi-DPI mode on windows (by adjusting the text scale factor in settings, as previously mentioned) and make sure it still looks the way you need it to. You *can* try and set the 'useIdealLayout' property of the stack if there are visual problems - this will make the text render in the appropriately 'linearly scalable' way. However, it does have a performance and visual difference impact - the text will be slightly fuzzier, and will take a little longer to render. Hope this helps! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 07:03:46 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 19:03:46 +0800 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: <6AA77278-3213-416B-BDE4-14895086726F@iotecdigital.com> References: <9351d33915709b981b879198ecac090d@livecode.com> <6AA77278-3213-416B-BDE4-14895086726F@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > So I guess what I am saying is that I really appreciate the difficulty of > what the LC developers have done. I think the real key was to not try and > create an entirely new application in the process of refactoring the > existing code. Most people have no idea what it takes to write a really > robust and functional application, never mind a development environment > that can produce one! > > Thank you for that. I for one am only barely comprehending how incomprehensible the entire task is. As for the mention of cake, I'm surprised that Richmond hasn't assumed that RR will be providing yellowcake and then point out that that has a half life. The fact that it's 4 billion years is irrelevant to him bemoaning the unethical behaviour of promising us cake that they already know has an end of life. ;-) The assumptions, fantasies and paranoia that crop up every now and then on this List is... well... amusing. With each new announced version of LC that comes out I try to read the list of Bugs fixed. I'm always impressed. One statistic that I've never seen, and I think would be revealing, would be new Confirmed Bugs vs Bugs Fixed since the last release. I guess you'd have to be careful about how the data was presented - probably broken down to v7 and v8. Personally I'd expect more new Bugs against v8 as it's DP and I wouldn't necessarily see that as a bad thing, but the pessimists amongst us are likely to see it as a portent to RR nefariously trying to force us all to write code without synonyms. ;-) From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Oct 28 09:05:43 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:05:43 -0400 Subject: Open Language and stability In-Reply-To: References: <9351d33915709b981b879198ecac090d@livecode.com> <6AA77278-3213-416B-BDE4-14895086726F@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I find the text images generated by this thread to be slightly disturbing, but http://memestorage.com/_nw/80/45602520.jpg On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Bob Sneidar > > wrote: > > > > > So I guess what I am saying is that I really appreciate the difficulty of > > what the LC developers have done. I think the real key was to not try and > > create an entirely new application in the process of refactoring the > > existing code. Most people have no idea what it takes to write a really > > robust and functional application, never mind a development environment > > that can produce one! > > > > Thank you for that. I for one am only barely comprehending how > incomprehensible the entire task is. > > As for the mention of cake, I'm surprised that Richmond hasn't assumed that > RR will be providing yellowcake and then point out that that has a half > life. The fact that it's 4 billion years is irrelevant to him bemoaning the > unethical behaviour of promising us cake that they already know has an end > of life. ;-) > > The assumptions, fantasies and paranoia that crop up every now and then on > this List is... well... amusing. > > With each new announced version of LC that comes out I try to read the list > of Bugs fixed. I'm always impressed. One statistic that I've never seen, > and I think would be revealing, would be new Confirmed Bugs vs Bugs Fixed > since the last release. I guess you'd have to be careful about how the data > was presented - probably broken down to v7 and v8. Personally I'd expect > more new Bugs against v8 as it's DP and I wouldn't necessarily see that as > a bad thing, but the pessimists amongst us are likely to see it as a > portent to RR nefariously trying to force us all to write code without > synonyms. ;-) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From capellan2000 at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 09:57:28 2015 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:57:28 -0400 Subject: User Guide: Call for Errata Message-ID: Hi Richard, Using Ubuntu, I will review the content and instructions using LC 7.1... and this time, I will not stop when I found the first error or incorrect information. Al On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 Richard Gaskin wrote: > With v8 coming up the User Guide will be completely rewritten, but in > the meantime there's interest in having the existing User Guide updated > for the remainder of the v7 series. > > I'm evaluating whether I can make time for this myself, and the scope > should make it doable since for this first pass we're only looking for > errors and omissions. > > Some of you have expressed some strong opinions about the User Guide > being out of date, so this is your chance to shine: > > To make sure we cover any errors and omissions you've seen, > please send a brief description with the page number to me > at the email address below. From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 10:46:10 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:46:10 -0400 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds like just the fact that you don't have the scrollbar I used to experiment with the depth. The mouseUp code is just for testing -- the function is self-contained. gc On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 4:32 PM, JB wrote: > I was not able to get the mouseUp handler to > work but I got the function to return a list but it > probably not the same list. I used this. > > on mouseUp > answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" > put it into whatFolder > --put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of > scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" > put directoryListing(whatFolder,2) into fld id 342435 > end mouseUp > > Any suggestions? > > JB > > > > > On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Michael Doub wrote: > > > > Geoff, > > > > I would suggest replacing the first statement of the function with > > > > if c is empty then put -1 into c -- set the default to go all the way > down > > put whatFolder & "/" & cr into R -- add a "/" to directory output so > they are more easily parsed later > > > > -= Mike > > > > > > On 10/27/15 12:18 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> Revised. Now in function form, with error checking and depth control. > You > >> can hand in a positive number to get that number of layers deep, or a > >> negative number to go all the way down. I tested it on my home directory > >> and it came back fine (after some time). I haven't (knowingly) tested > with > >> unusual characters. > >> > >> on mouseUp > >> put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of > >> scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" > >> end mouseUp > >> > >> function directoryListing whatFolder,c > >> put whatFolder & cr into R > >> set the directory to whatFolder > >> if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R > >> put the files into tFileList > >> sort tFileList > >> replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList > >> put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R > >> put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList > >> sort tDirList > >> repeat for each line L in tDirList > >> put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R > >> end repeat > >> return R > >> end directoryListing > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Geoff Canyon > wrote: > >> > >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < > >>> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the > list > >>>> and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html > >>>> > >>> Man, do I hate looking at my old code... > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 10:55:55 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:55:55 -0400 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: For me it made more sense to change the exit value to 1. That way the value is the number of layers you want *including* the directory you specify. So: put directoryListing("/Users/gcanyon/Desktop",1) -- puts /Users/gcanyon/Desktop That way using either 0 or empty gets the infinite list. The trailing "/" is an interesting point. I checked and the "set the directory" command will happily take a trailing "/" or not, but when you "put the directory" you get no trailing "/" Given that, I'd probably leave it as is, and always assume that the description of a particular directory needs to have the "/" added when adding a filename or directoryname to it. But you could of course go the other way. Making the function flexible to take a trailing "/" or not would require something like: if char -1function directoryListing whatFolder,c if char -1 of whatFolder <> "/" then put "/" after whatFolder put whatFolder & cr into R set the directory to whatFolder if c = 1 or the result is not empty then return R put the files into tFileList sort tFileList replace cr with cr & whatFolder in tFileList put whatFolder & tFileList & cr after R put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList sort tDirList repeat for each line L in tDirList put directoryListing((whatFolder & L),(c-1)) after R end repeat return R end directoryListing On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Michael Doub wrote: > Geoff, > > I would suggest replacing the first statement of the function with > > if c is empty then put -1 into c -- set the default to go all the way > down > put whatFolder & "/" & cr into R -- add a "/" to directory output so they > are more easily parsed later > > -= Mike > > > > On 10/27/15 12:18 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> Revised. Now in function form, with error checking and depth control. You >> can hand in a positive number to get that number of layers deep, or a >> negative number to go all the way down. I tested it on my home directory >> and it came back fine (after some time). I haven't (knowingly) tested with >> unusual characters. >> >> on mouseUp >> put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of >> scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" >> end mouseUp >> >> function directoryListing whatFolder,c >> put whatFolder & cr into R >> set the directory to whatFolder >> if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R >> put the files into tFileList >> sort tFileList >> replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList >> put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R >> put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList >> sort tDirList >> repeat for each line L in tDirList >> put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R >> end repeat >> return R >> end directoryListing >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < >>> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: >>> >>> I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list >>>> and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html >>>> >>>> Man, do I hate looking at my old code... >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 10:59:32 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:59:32 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> Message-ID: Open Language will mean little if it is restricted to synonyms, or if it is restricted to functions and commands. gc On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-27 19:26, Richmond wrote: > >> My tastes are extremely savage: I cannot see anything really wrong >> with the syntax for anything, >> and don't see the need for a multiplicity of synonyms. >> > > Well, that's the current state of play - which isn't really the topic of > conversation here - it is about the future. > > So would you be happy if all future functionality of the language were > implemented as function calls and commands (a la Visual Basic 6)? (This is > actually a serious question!) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Wed Oct 28 12:33:24 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:33:24 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <972F7F68-33CC-4E35-83EB-F68ED2C69BDE@pacifier.com> Thank you for the info. JB > On Oct 28, 2015, at 7:46 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > Sounds like just the fact that you don't have the scrollbar I used to > experiment with the depth. The mouseUp code is just for testing -- the > function is self-contained. > > gc > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 4:32 PM, JB wrote: > >> I was not able to get the mouseUp handler to >> work but I got the function to return a list but it >> probably not the same list. I used this. >> >> on mouseUp >> answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" >> put it into whatFolder >> --put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of >> scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" >> put directoryListing(whatFolder,2) into fld id 342435 >> end mouseUp >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> JB >> >> >> >>> On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Michael Doub wrote: >>> >>> Geoff, >>> >>> I would suggest replacing the first statement of the function with >>> >>> if c is empty then put -1 into c -- set the default to go all the way >> down >>> put whatFolder & "/" & cr into R -- add a "/" to directory output so >> they are more easily parsed later >>> >>> -= Mike >>> >>> >>> On 10/27/15 12:18 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>>> Revised. Now in function form, with error checking and depth control. >> You >>>> can hand in a positive number to get that number of layers deep, or a >>>> negative number to go all the way down. I tested it on my home directory >>>> and it came back fine (after some time). I haven't (knowingly) tested >> with >>>> unusual characters. >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> put directoryListing(fld "directory",round(the thumbposition of >>>> scrollbar "depth")) into field "listing" >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> function directoryListing whatFolder,c >>>> put whatFolder & cr into R >>>> set the directory to whatFolder >>>> if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R >>>> put the files into tFileList >>>> sort tFileList >>>> replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList >>>> put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R >>>> put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList >>>> sort tDirList >>>> repeat for each line L in tDirList >>>> put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R >>>> end repeat >>>> return R >>>> end directoryListing >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Geoff Canyon >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D < >>>>> matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the >> list >>>>>> and was originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002. >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html >>>>>> >>>>> Man, do I hate looking at my old code... >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mikedoub at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 13:51:13 2015 From: mikedoub at gmail.com (Michael Doub) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 13:51:13 -0400 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56310B11.4020101@gmail.com> When I saw that the output contained both directories and files, adding the "/" allows you to easily know that you are looking at a folder rather than a file. put directoryListing(whatfolder) into foo repeat for each line x of foo if char -1 of x = "/" then put x & cr after directoryList else put x & cr after fileList end if Given a random path that could be either a directory or a file, is there a clever way to tell what you have? -= Mike On 10/28/15 10:55 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > The trailing "/" is an interesting point. I checked and the "set the > directory" command will happily take a trailing "/" or not, but when you > "put the directory" you get no trailing "/" > > Given that, I'd probably leave it as is, and always assume that the > description of a particular directory needs to have the "/" added when > adding a filename or directoryname to it. From sundown at pacifier.com Wed Oct 28 14:36:47 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:36:47 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <972F7F68-33CC-4E35-83EB-F68ED2C69BDE@pacifier.com> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> <972F7F68-33CC-4E35-83EB-F68ED2C69BDE@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <661BD430-305F-4ED7-8D58-AEA5BC0B87E7@pacifier.com> Here is a different mouseUp handler you can put in a field. on mouseUp if target = empty then answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" put it into whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,2) into target exit to top end if if the controlKey is down and the optionKey is down then put empty into target exit to top end if if the controlKey is down then put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into whatFolder set itemDel to "/" delete last item of whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,2) into target exit to top end if if the optionKey is down then set itemDel to "/" sort lines of target descending by last item of each exit to top end if if the commandKey is down then set itemDel to "/" sort lines of target ascending by last item of each exit to top end if put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,2) into target end mouseUp function directoryListing whatFolder,c put whatFolder & cr into R set the directory to whatFolder if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R put the files into tFileList sort tFileList replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList sort tDirList repeat for each line L in tDirList put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R end repeat return R end directoryListing JB From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Oct 28 15:34:40 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 19:34:40 +0000 Subject: Options for playing mp3 on iOS Message-ID: <56312350.7010109@cogapp.com> I have a small number of mp3 clips that I want to embed in my app and play on demand. I think that I have three choices, but I may be wrong: - audioClip - mobilePlaySoundOnChannel - a player object Are any of these an out-of-the-box bad idea? Is one of them a clear leader? Or what are the pros and cons? I'm interested in the pros and cons in general; but in this specific case it may be relevant to note: - I don't need to give the user a controller (but don't object to it) - I do need to be able to programmatically stop the sound - I would like to be able to programatically adjust the volume Thanks in advance for all wisdom shared! Ben From skip at magicgate.com Wed Oct 28 15:53:01 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:53:01 -0400 Subject: XML Error - No Data To Process Message-ID: Good afternoon! I have an desktop (windows) application that has been running fine for about a year. It is a simple tool that reaches out to an API and retrieves some XML back in return. Today I needed to go in and change an authorization token for it to talk properly to the API. I created the standalone but when running the exe file I get: "No data to process. Error : xmlerr, bad document id" It runs fine in on the development side, just not the compiled, executable side. I made sure I had revxml.dll in the externals folder of the standalone thinking that was the issue but it wasn't. Any ideas?? SKIP KIMPEL From skip at magicgate.com Wed Oct 28 15:58:50 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:58:50 -0400 Subject: XML Error - No Data To Process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I figured it out: when building the standalone, it was not adding revsecurity.dll SKIP On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel < skip at magicgate.com> wrote: > Good afternoon! > > I have an desktop (windows) application that has been running fine for > about a year. It is a simple tool that reaches out to an API and retrieves > some XML back in return. > > Today I needed to go in and change an authorization token for it to talk > properly to the API. I created the standalone but when running the exe > file I get: > "No data to process. Error : xmlerr, bad document id" > > It runs fine in on the development side, just not the compiled, executable > side. I made sure I had revxml.dll in the externals folder of the > standalone thinking that was the issue but it wasn't. > > Any ideas?? > > SKIP KIMPEL > From skip at magicgate.com Wed Oct 28 16:01:05 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:01:05 -0400 Subject: Windows standalones not closing properly Message-ID: Has anybody noticed that when you build a standalone now for Windows, if you click the native "X" to close out the application, it looks like it is gone, however it continues to run in the background and has to be killed using the Task Manager? They has been happening for the past few releases and I have ignored it and begun to program around it thinking it would be fixed but it continues to be an issue for me. Is anybody else having this issue? SKIP KIMPEL From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Oct 28 16:09:35 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:09:35 -0400 Subject: Windows standalones not closing properly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I used to see that quite often until I started including this in the stack script of the main stack. on closeStackRequest close this stack quit end closeStackRequest ~Roger On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel < skip at magicgate.com> wrote: > Has anybody noticed that when you build a standalone now for Windows, if > you click the native "X" to close out the application, it looks like it is > gone, however it continues to run in the background and has to be killed > using the Task Manager? > > They has been happening for the past few releases and I have ignored it and > begun to program around it thinking it would be fixed but it continues to > be an issue for me. > > Is anybody else having this issue? > > SKIP KIMPEL > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From skip at magicgate.com Wed Oct 28 16:28:14 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:28:14 -0400 Subject: Windows standalones not closing properly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Roger.... That is the same strategy I have been using as well but this must be an oversight on LC's side as it is really annoying! Thanks again, SKIP On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > I used to see that quite often until I started including this in the stack > script of the main stack. > > on closeStackRequest > close this stack > quit > end closeStackRequest > > ~Roger > > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel < > skip at magicgate.com> wrote: > > > Has anybody noticed that when you build a standalone now for Windows, if > > you click the native "X" to close out the application, it looks like it > is > > gone, however it continues to run in the background and has to be killed > > using the Task Manager? > > > > They has been happening for the past few releases and I have ignored it > and > > begun to program around it thinking it would be fixed but it continues to > > be an issue for me. > > > > Is anybody else having this issue? > > > > SKIP KIMPEL > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Oct 28 16:25:43 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 20:25:43 +0000 Subject: Anyone know where the Guides have gone? Message-ID: <56312F47.8090004@cogapp.com> Using "Beginners Guide" or "All Guides" launches a browser which redirects to http://livecode.com/guides-documentation/, which carries the annoying message: Guides & Documentation *Coming Soon* Documentation will be available online soon. For now you can access all documentation guides through the LiveCode Product complete with a picture of the menu just used. Meanwhile on the site footer has a section "Resources", with the top item being "Guides", which leads to the page https://livecode.com/resources/guides/ - this looks very promising, offering six guides, three with attractive cover images: Beginners-Guide - a link to a page with a larger image of the guide 'cover' Developer?s Guide - this works Mobile Guide - 404 LiveCode Server Guide - 404 Desktop externals - 404 iOS Externals Guide - 404 I've reported the 404s, but does anyone know if any of these guides did at one point exist, and if so where they might now be found? Many thanks, Ben From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 28 16:32:11 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 13:32:11 -0700 Subject: Windows standalones not closing properly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <563130CB.10504@fourthworld.com> Skip, do you have any timers pending? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From skip at magicgate.com Wed Oct 28 16:45:47 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:45:47 -0400 Subject: Windows standalones not closing properly In-Reply-To: <563130CB.10504@fourthworld.com> References: <563130CB.10504@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Nope, no timers pending. This is consistent across ANY Windows standalone I create. SKIP On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Skip, do you have any timers pending? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Oct 28 16:47:22 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:47:22 -0400 Subject: Windows standalones not closing properly In-Reply-To: References: <563130CB.10504@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Which LC version, and which Windows version? ~Roger From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Oct 28 17:17:11 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:17:11 -0500 Subject: Windows standalones not closing properly In-Reply-To: References: <563130CB.10504@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56313B57.3080804@hyperactivesw.com> It also happens if there are any drivers that weren't closed. On 10/28/2015 3:45 PM, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel wrote: > Nope, no timers pending. This is consistent across ANY Windows standalone > I create. > > SKIP > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Skip, do you have any timers pending? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From klaus at major-k.de Wed Oct 28 17:30:16 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 22:30:16 +0100 Subject: Options for playing mp3 on iOS In-Reply-To: <56312350.7010109@cogapp.com> References: <56312350.7010109@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <4FDF054D-F54F-4C8A-86BD-7EBDFE7E4B46@major-k.de> Hi Ben, > Am 28.10.2015 um 20:34 schrieb Ben Rubinstein : > > I have a small number of mp3 clips that I want to embed in my app and play on demand. > > I think that I have three choices, but I may be wrong: > - audioClip imported sound clips do not work on mobile, if you mean that. However: play ?path/to/sound.mp3? does work on mobile. > - mobilePlaySoundOnChannel > - a player object player objects are also not supported on mobile. But you can ?mobilecreate? a ?native ?player?, although I?m not sure if this is only for video? > Are any of these an out-of-the-box bad idea? Is one of them a clear leader? Or what are the pros and cons? > > I'm interested in the pros and cons in general; but in this specific case it may be relevant to note: > - I don't need to give the user a controller (but don't object to it) I think the native player object has one. > - I do need to be able to programmatically stop the sound > - I would like to be able to programatically adjust the volume ?the playloudness? is also supported on mobile. > Thanks in advance for all wisdom shared! > > Ben Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From bogdanoff at me.com Wed Oct 28 18:54:44 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:54:44 -0700 Subject: Application Data Message-ID: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> Hi, I?m designing a new application whereby a user creates animation: images, buttons, fields, graphics, new cards, etc., are created in my LC runtime using the standard LiveCode controls. I will have a palette of tools available to the user to do their creative work. The user then saves the file which can be reopened by anyone who has my application. I like the design of Apple?s Pages page layout application where the single window is a working area (canvas) for the page you?re working on, an inspector area on the right, and a sort of menubar area on the top of the whole thing that also has additional tools. As you resize the window a grey backdrop shows behind. I can recreate this in LiveCode pretty easily. However, the stuff in the canvas, the working area needs to be saved as a project file outside my application to be reloaded again later. It would be great if this was simply a stack that is opened and shows in my application window. But I don't see how I can ?connect? that stack into my application window, so you can drag the window around, resize it, work on it, and it is one single window. The alternative I see is to save data describing each object into an external file and recreate the controls and text content when the project file is reloaded. I strongly suspect that someone has done this sort of thing before? Is there a way to physically ?connect? two stacks together? Or, any suggestions on saving and reloading descriptive data about the contents of a stack? Thanks! Peter Bogdanoff UCLA From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 28 19:12:38 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:12:38 +1100 Subject: Application Data In-Reply-To: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> References: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> Message-ID: > On 29 Oct 2015, at 9:54 am, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > > Or, any suggestions on saving and reloading descriptive data about the contents of a stack? Feel free to look at lcVCS source as an example of exporting and importing objects. It?s really not very complicated if you are talking about just one group or something. The complicated parts come when you start dealing with inter-stack dependencies, object IDs and unshared data in shared groups? Cheers Monte From david at viral.academy Wed Oct 28 19:18:40 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 Subject: Application Data In-Reply-To: References: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> Message-ID: Cloning a group from one stack to another is very fast? On Wednesday, 28 October 2015, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 29 Oct 2015, at 9:54 am, Peter Bogdanoff > wrote: > > > > Or, any suggestions on saving and reloading descriptive data about the > contents of a stack? > > Feel free to look at lcVCS source as an example of exporting and importing > objects. It?s really not very complicated if you are talking about just one > group or something. The complicated parts come when you start dealing with > inter-stack dependencies, object IDs and unshared data in shared groups? > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From david at viral.academy Wed Oct 28 19:38:41 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 23:38:41 +0000 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> Message-ID: >From my point of view Open Language is the most important aspect of LiveCode. Without it on the timeline I would not be using LiveCode today. I'd be working purely in NodeJS I suspect. On Tuesday, 27 October 2015, Mark Waddingham > wrote: > On 2015-10-26 17:36, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> I was merely having fun with some of expectations among the readers >> here for what Open Language might be used for. >> > > Well, I'm glad you are having fun :P > > Personally, I don't mind comma-delimited arguments, and am generally >> happy with any syntax that let's me get my work done. >> > > Interesting - I suspect that other people might not be quite so 'on board' > with your attitude towards the importance of English-like syntax to > LiveCode (and xTalks in general). I'm one of those :) > I'm fine with whatever there's budget to provide to let folks explore >> novel syntax, even more so with your reminder here that Open Language >> is among the last of the enhancements in queue, long after being able >> to play a video file on Linux without crashing and other less >> glamorous but useful things. >> > > Unfortunately, language and features are intertwined. You can't have > features without a way to access them, and a language with no features is > useless. Mark is spot on as far as I can judge in terms of the need and emphasis on planning long term for the future of the language itself. I beleive that it is essential that the literate aspects of the programming language are revitalised, not just because it is what makes the language unique, but also because it will become increasingly important over time. As code and coding skills become universally important, taught in every school, and the basis for a great deal of the functioning of society (and not just business), a language which is comprehensible (literate) will become ever more important (and not just in schools). I worry more about the speed of adoption of community engagement - it's getting better, but I'd like to see (and contribute to more) open source library, and documentation efforts. From babanin.ltd at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 19:47:57 2015 From: babanin.ltd at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 00:47:57 +0100 Subject: Options for playing mp3 on iOS In-Reply-To: <4FDF054D-F54F-4C8A-86BD-7EBDFE7E4B46@major-k.de> References: <56312350.7010109@cogapp.com> <4FDF054D-F54F-4C8A-86BD-7EBDFE7E4B46@major-k.de> Message-ID: Also I am very much interested in such functionality playing mp3 (or whatever other sound format is suitable). I started a language learning app. I gave up on it as with some earlier LC versions I had just frequent crashes and thought that the multimedia-technology may not be as advanced in LiveCode yet. Also at that time I also gave up because there was no way to easily have Russian characters displayed together with Roman language characters, or using files wiith names in Cyrillic letters. UTF-8 was not available as a native character set. And all this changed now. THAT IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT with "7-UP" ))) But is such more sophisticated application something LC would just be the best tool for? I work on Windows and Android. I do not have a Mac. But it would be great to support any LC supported platforms. - Basic Requirements: Cross-platform, desktop and mobile - Plays sound (video) synchronous with text.highlighting phrases and words which are spoken (either different natural speakers or synthetic voice up to choice of user). Also user can enter voice (in native or foreign language.) and do the synchronization of both languages (text and sound). - User can click on text to hear the associated spoken phrase. App allows to replay words, phrases etc. as many times as the user wants, and user can store certain phrases to a library. So, the player (native or not, or whatever player on given platform) should be controllable to some degree: - controlling time scale (allowing to move backward, forward, to any marks set within a file, and from file to file) - controlling the level of loudness (which I believe is not a problem). I know I can track milliseconds and move around using milliseconds. But with all players on all platforms? Any other sound (and video) attributes are not as important for such app. Also it should play snippets of sound (or video) files and combine them if needed without noticeable delays in loading and playing. This means, probably sound files (or video files) should generally be local (on mobile, on hard disk). Or they should be loaded from anywhere into memory and be accessible for the language learning lesson. Basic idea behind: Teacher and students can create their own language learning lessons, and they can create text and sound and video and drawings - as they like. They can add any annotations and use any kind of learning technique. For example, using this as learning cards or with whatever edutainment strategy - should be easy to do. It is another level of usefulness which can be developed on top of basic functionality. For example: I find it highly interesting and useful to translate foreign language phrases word by word using an "exact" word-by-word translation even if such translation is not something one would use for a meaningful translation.) It is just used to learn how in a foreign language grammar is used. Example: German: Ich gehe heute Abend spazieren. English literal 1:1 translation: I go today evening walking. Possible meaningful translation: Today evening I will go for a walk. The student will grab the way a foreign language mind is constructing the phrase using the literal translation word-by-word. (The literal translation does not have to be correct English at all.) So, the app would play the sound, and together with the sound, exactly matching words are highlighted in the original language, and also the literal translation will be highlighted word-by-word, whereby the user could switch on and off whatever he wants to see. There are several possible synchronized levels or tracks: Sound tracks with different voices, pictures track, videos track, original foreign language text track, text transliteration track, exact word by word translation track, translation of meaning track, annotations tracks (notes, remarks, mnemonics, references to further explanations, word forms, etc.). And many people love to learn when they can create their own learning-course since then they also learn while creating. It is more fun. And I am sure, it is more fun for students to CREATE while learning, instead of just to learn. Is it possible to do this with LiveCode? I mean, is it really possible with today's tools available on desktop and mobile? I am a bit confused reading through comments on this list and trying the best myself to get the player working the way I conceive it. Then of course, I am thinking of not only having some fixed text, but be able visually to move phrases, words etc. around and combine them through drag-and-drop to become new phrases, or fill empty spaces in a text with correct (or incorrect) phrases (with incorrect ones the app will bark at the user)))...Sound (and all else) should still be with such snippets. One level to work with is how to manage such multimedia data in a database, and another level is using the functionality available in LiveCode for display and user input. Any ideas and comments are highly appreciated ). First it all boils down to a player that can really be used and managed and be under programmatic control for such purpose on each of the supported platforms. Is it possible now? Roland On 28 October 2015 at 22:30, Klaus major-k wrote: > Hi Ben, > > > Am 28.10.2015 um 20:34 schrieb Ben Rubinstein : > > > > I have a small number of mp3 clips that I want to embed in my app and > play on demand. > > > > I think that I have three choices, but I may be wrong: > > - audioClip > > imported sound clips do not work on mobile, if you mean that. > However: play ?path/to/sound.mp3? > does work on mobile. > > > - mobilePlaySoundOnChannel > > - a player object > > player objects are also not supported on mobile. > But you can ?mobilecreate? a ?native ?player?, although I?m not sure if > this is only for video? > > > Are any of these an out-of-the-box bad idea? Is one of them a clear > leader? Or what are the pros and cons? > > > > I'm interested in the pros and cons in general; but in this specific > case it may be relevant to note: > > - I don't need to give the user a controller (but don't object to > it) > > I think the native player object has one. > > > - I do need to be able to programmatically stop the sound > > - I would like to be able to programatically adjust the volume > > ?the playloudness? is also supported on mobile. > > > Thanks in advance for all wisdom shared! > > > > Ben > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 19:55:25 2015 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 00:55:25 +0100 Subject: Options for playing mp3 on iOS and any platform (desktop and mobile) Message-ID: Also I am very much interested in such functionality playing mp3 (or whatever other sound format is suitable). --- If you are interested, please read this more elaborated requirement note for a language learning app which may seem to be off-topic, but is mainly used to illustrate a real-world need using sound and video based on an example, and only then it may become clear what I think should be possible using multi-media in LiveCode. And maybe it really is possible already today? --- I started a language learning app some time ago. I gave up on it as with some earlier LC versions I had just frequent crashes and thought that the multimedia-technology may not be as advanced in LiveCode yet. Also at that time I also gave up because there was no way to easily have Russian characters displayed together with Roman language characters, or using files with names in Cyrillic letters. UTF-8 was not available as a native character set. And all this changed now. THAT IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT with "7-UP" ))) But is the following more sophisticated application something LC would just be the best tool for? I work on Windows and Android. I do not have a Mac. But it would be great to support any LC supported platforms. - LANGUAGE LEARNING APP - Basic Requirements: Cross-platform, desktop and mobile - Plays sound (video) synchronous with text.highlighting phrases and words which are spoken (either different natural speakers or synthetic voice up to choice of user). Also user can enter voice (in native or foreign language.) and do the synchronization of both languages (text and sound). - User can click on text to hear the associated spoken phrase. App allows to replay words, phrases etc. as many times as the user wants, and user can store certain phrases to a library. So, the player (native or not, or whatever player on given platform) should be controllable to some degree: - controlling time scale (allowing to move backward, forward, to any marks set within a file, and from file to file) - controlling the level of loudness (which I believe is not a problem). I know I can track milliseconds and move around using milliseconds. But with all players on all platforms? Any other sound (and video) attributes are not as important for such app. Also it should play snippets of sound (or video) files and combine them if needed without noticeable delays in loading and playing. This means, probably sound files (or video files) should generally be local (on mobile, on hard disk). Or they should be loaded from anywhere into memory and be accessible for the language learning lesson. Basic idea behind: Teacher and students can create their own language learning lessons, and they can create text and sound and video and drawings - as they like. They can add any annotations and use any kind of learning technique. For example, using this as learning cards or with whatever edutainment strategy - should be easy to do. It is another level of usefulness which can be developed on top of basic functionality. For example: I find it highly interesting and useful to translate foreign language phrases word by word using an "exact" word-by-word translation even if such translation is not something one would use for a meaningful translation.) It is just used to learn how in a foreign language grammar is used. Example: German: Ich gehe heute Abend spazieren. English literal 1:1 translation: I go today evening walking. Possible meaningful translation: Today evening I will go for a walk. The student will grab the way a foreign language mind is constructing the phrase using the literal translation word-by-word. (The literal translation does not have to be correct English at all.) So, the app would play the sound, and together with the sound, exactly matching words are highlighted in the original language, and also the literal translation will be highlighted word-by-word, whereby the user could switch on and off whatever he wants to see. There are several possible synchronized levels or tracks: Sound tracks with different voices, pictures track, videos track, original foreign language text track, text transliteration track, exact word by word translation track, translation of meaning track, annotations tracks (notes, remarks, mnemonics, references to further explanations, word forms, etc.). And many people love to learn when they can create their own learning-course since then they also learn while creating. It is more fun. And I am sure, it is more fun for students to CREATE while learning, instead of just to learn. Is it possible to do this with LiveCode? I mean, is it really possible with today's tools available on desktop and mobile? I am a bit confused reading through comments on this list and trying the best myself to get the player working the way I conceive it. Then of course, I am thinking of not only having some fixed text, but be able visually to move phrases, words etc. around and combine them through drag-and-drop to become new phrases, or fill empty spaces in a text with correct (or incorrect) phrases (with incorrect ones the app will bark at the user)))...Sound (and all else) should still be with such snippets. One level to work with is how to manage such multimedia data in a database, and another level is using the functionality available in LiveCode for display and user input. Any ideas and comments are highly appreciated ). First it all boils down to a player that can really be used and managed and be under programmatic control for such purpose on each of the supported platforms. Is it possible now? Roland On 28 October 2015 at 22:30, Klaus major-k wrote: > Hi Ben, > > > Am 28.10.2015 um 20:34 schrieb Ben Rubinstein : > > > > I have a small number of mp3 clips that I want to embed in my app and > play on demand. > > > > I think that I have three choices, but I may be wrong: > > - audioClip > > imported sound clips do not work on mobile, if you mean that. > However: play ?path/to/sound.mp3? > does work on mobile. > > > - mobilePlaySoundOnChannel > > - a player object > > player objects are also not supported on mobile. > But you can ?mobilecreate? a ?native ?player?, although I?m not sure if > this is only for video? > > > Are any of these an out-of-the-box bad idea? Is one of them a clear > leader? Or what are the pros and cons? > > > > I'm interested in the pros and cons in general; but in this specific > case it may be relevant to note: > > - I don't need to give the user a controller (but don't object to > it) > > I think the native player object has one. > > > - I do need to be able to programmatically stop the sound > > - I would like to be able to programatically adjust the volume > > ?the playloudness? is also supported on mobile. > > > Thanks in advance for all wisdom shared! > > > > Ben > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bogdanoff at me.com Wed Oct 28 20:22:26 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:22:26 -0700 Subject: Application Data In-Reply-To: References: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> Message-ID: <853E2CF2-9B4B-43ED-82BF-556B2ED4D2D2@me.com> Monte, with lcVCS, the user of my application would have their file data saved into a number of folders? Would the users of my runtime need to install dlls and such? David, yes, copying a group back and forth seems simpler. I?m trying to understand this concept? So, to save to another file, I could clone the stack, delete unwanted groups and what not, and save. To import the controls, I would open that stack and copy the cards over, or copy the controls?? On a side note?it seems to be true that because a runtime with the LC engine can create a new stacks complete with controls, properties, and scripts, and save, open, modify, and interact with it, in essence my runtime application becomes a shadow version of LiveCode, and me now a mini-LiveCode mogul? Peter On Oct 28, 2015, at 4:18 PM, David Bovill wrote: > Cloning a group from one stack to another is very fast? > > On Wednesday, 28 October 2015, Monte Goulding > wrote: > >> >>> On 29 Oct 2015, at 9:54 am, Peter Bogdanoff > > wrote: >>> >>> Or, any suggestions on saving and reloading descriptive data about the >> contents of a stack? >> >> Feel free to look at lcVCS source as an example of exporting and importing >> objects. It?s really not very complicated if you are talking about just one >> group or something. The complicated parts come when you start dealing with >> inter-stack dependencies, object IDs and unshared data in shared groups? >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 20:35:48 2015 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 00:35:48 +0000 Subject: User Guide: Call for Errata In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I find links on LiveCodes web pages to guide pages are broken and user guides are not accessible. The user guide for first deployment on Android is where now? The last guide i worked with uses not updated information. I could possibly help with that. But would it not have to be updated frequently? Could all guides receive a date-time stamp and reference to LC versions for users to understand their context? I suggest creating a tester group where each one tests user guides frequently, and updates would be frequent as well. Roland On Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 14:59 Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi Richard, > > Using Ubuntu, I will review the content and > instructions using LC 7.1... > > and this time, I will not stop when I found > the first error or incorrect information. > > Al > > On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 > Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > With v8 coming up the User Guide will be completely rewritten, but in > > the meantime there's interest in having the existing User Guide updated > > for the remainder of the v7 series. > > > > I'm evaluating whether I can make time for this myself, and the scope > > should make it doable since for this first pass we're only looking for > > errors and omissions. > > > > Some of you have expressed some strong opinions about the User Guide > > being out of date, so this is your chance to shine: > > > > To make sure we cover any errors and omissions you've seen, > > please send a brief description with the page number to me > > at the email address below. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Oct 28 20:37:35 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 11:37:35 +1100 Subject: Application Data In-Reply-To: <853E2CF2-9B4B-43ED-82BF-556B2ED4D2D2@me.com> References: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> <853E2CF2-9B4B-43ED-82BF-556B2ED4D2D2@me.com> Message-ID: <7D8A761D-6839-4FA9-8276-6EEBB0596137@sweattechnologies.com> > On 29 Oct 2015, at 11:22 am, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > > Monte, with lcVCS, the user of my application would have their file data saved into a number of folders? Would the users of my runtime need to install dlls and such? I was purely talking about it as an example not an implementation you would directly use. Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 28 20:49:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:49:39 -0700 Subject: User Guide: Call for Errata In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56316D23.4060908@fourthworld.com> Roland Huettmann wrote: > I find links on LiveCodes web pages to guide pages are broken and user > guides are not accessible. > > The user guide for first deployment on Android is where now? The last > guide i worked with uses not updated information. I could possibly > help with that. But would it not have to be updated frequently? > > Could all guides receive a date-time stamp and reference to LC > versions for users to understand their context? > > I suggest creating a tester group where each one tests user guides > frequently, and updates would be frequent as well. Thank you for your offer to help with the online guides. My request here was about the User Guide in PDF format included in the LiveCode installation. Please feel free to pass along any errors or omissions you may find there. As for the web-based guides, those are in the process of being migrated to GitHub's markdown, and will be posted to the LiveCode repository there soon: In my Community meeting with Fraser Gordon, one of the core team developers, he let me know that they're putting together a helpful Getting Started with Documentation page for the Github site, and once that's in place we can start coordinating community efforts to update the many web-based guides along with the Dictionary entries. Regarding the 404 URLs, yes, with the many changes to their site they've had even more broken links than Apple. :) A few months ago I submitted a request to put redirects in place so those links throughout our community can continue to work: -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Oct 28 21:04:28 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 18:04:28 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5631709C.1050508@fourthworld.com> David Bovill wrote: > I worry more about the speed of adoption of community engagement - > it's getting better, but I'd like to see (and contribute to more) > open source library, and documentation efforts. It's been a slow start, but things are beginning to take shape. We identified early on that the best work is done in small teams, and ideally each community team would have a main contact within the company to keep things moving. We've begun to put together teams for documentation, translation, and educational outreach, and soon (fingers crossed) we'll have a section at the web site devoted to these teams, giving credit where generously due for contributors and team leaders alike along with links to the relevant collections of materials and/or forum sections for ongoing discussions related to the team's work. Internally, the company has restructured some of the their roles so they're now better able to support such teams. And you may have noticed the great job Peter Brett has been doing here and elsewhere as the main community support leader within the company. He's one of their newer hires, having been brought on board just a little over a year ago, but he was hired not only for his Linux expertise but also his deep understanding of and passion for open source process. Beyond those activities, there's been a lot of great open source libraries and tools coming up in the community. In my last Global Jam talk I outlined four of those, and sent links to Peter to be included in his next weekly community update. Some really nice work being done with JSON, a graphing/materials management app, and more. If any of you want to lend a hand with any of the initiatives we have going, or want to start a new one, or just bring some attention to a cool open source project you're doing in LiveCode, drop a note to me or Peter and we'll do what we can to help it along. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From sundown at pacifier.com Wed Oct 28 22:30:27 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 19:30:27 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <661BD430-305F-4ED7-8D58-AEA5BC0B87E7@pacifier.com> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> <972F7F68-33CC-4E35-83EB-F68ED2C69BDE@pacifier.com> <661BD430-305F-4ED7-8D58-AEA5BC0B87E7@pacifier.com> Message-ID: I improved the mouseUp handler. Now you can set the desired level at the top of the handler and you can launch applications and folders in the finder. on mouseUp put 1 into cNum if target = empty then answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" put it into whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,cNum) into target exit to top end if if the controlKey is down and the optionKey is down then put empty into target exit to top end if if the controlKey is down and the controlKey is down then put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into tLaunch launch document tLaunch exit to top end if if the controlKey is down then put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into whatFolder set itemDel to "/" delete last item of whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,cNum) into target exit to top end if if the optionKey is down then set itemDel to "/" sort lines of target descending by last item of each exit to top end if if the commandKey is down then set itemDel to "/" sort lines of target ascending by last item of each exit to top end if put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,cNum) into target end mouseUp function directoryListing whatFolder,c put whatFolder & cr into R set the directory to whatFolder if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R put the files into tFileList sort tFileList replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList sort tDirList repeat for each line L in tDirList put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R end repeat return R end directoryListing From bogdanoff at me.com Wed Oct 28 23:18:58 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 20:18:58 -0700 Subject: Application Data In-Reply-To: <7D8A761D-6839-4FA9-8276-6EEBB0596137@sweattechnologies.com> References: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> <853E2CF2-9B4B-43ED-82BF-556B2ED4D2D2@me.com> <7D8A761D-6839-4FA9-8276-6EEBB0596137@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <187DCEC5-A350-4B91-927F-AC5934A412F1@me.com> Of course, thanks. On Oct 28, 2015, at 5:37 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 29 Oct 2015, at 11:22 am, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> >> Monte, with lcVCS, the user of my application would have their file data saved into a number of folders? Would the users of my runtime need to install dlls and such? > > I was purely talking about it as an example not an implementation you would directly use. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Thu Oct 29 05:05:42 2015 From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:05:42 +0100 Subject: Options for playing mp3 on iOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For mobile apps I use the all the mobile... commands. The player object isn?t supported. audioClip I?m not sure about. Very easy to control the sounds on mobile - play, stop, pause, resume, adjust volume etc etc. You can have multiple channels for multiple sounds too. HTH cheers Alan -- Alan Stenhouse alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Check out our apps on the App Store: BeatSpeak - the multilingual talking metronome EV-Point - Find your nearest Electric Vehicle Recharge Station. Re-Collections - Make your family history come to life. Every picture tells your story. On 29 Oct 2015, at 12:48 am, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > I have a small number of mp3 clips that I want to embed in my app and play on > demand. > > I think that I have three choices, but I may be wrong: > - audioClip > - mobilePlaySoundOnChannel > - a player object > > Are any of these an out-of-the-box bad idea? Is one of them a clear leader? > Or what are the pros and cons? > > I'm interested in the pros and cons in general; but in this specific case it > may be relevant to note: > - I don't need to give the user a controller (but don't object to it) > - I do need to be able to programmatically stop the sound > - I would like to be able to programatically adjust the volume > > Thanks in advance for all wisdom shared! > > Ben From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 29 06:43:52 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 11:43:52 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5631709C.1050508@fourthworld.com> References: <5631709C.1050508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6743c70fbc10fc69f95228123a9e7763@livecode.com> On 2015-10-29 02:04, Richard Gaskin wrote: > And you may have noticed the great job Peter Brett has been doing here > and elsewhere as the main community support leader within the company. > He's one of their newer hires, having been brought on board just a > little over a year ago, but he was hired not only for his Linux > expertise but also his deep understanding of and passion for open > source process. Just to correct you here as your statement is actually a huge disservice to Peter and the skills and knowledge he has. He was brought on board because he showed a huge interest, ability, and depth of knowledge in aspects of software engineering for all the critical areas LiveCode covers and the necessary infrastructure it requires. Including but by no means limited to: programming language design and implementation, GUI toolkit architecture, build system engineering, continuous integration and test system construction, rigorous engineering process implementation, open source software communication and community engagement. I must confess I never take much stock in CVs in terms of choosing people for software engineering roles. A lot tend to be just lists of things which people *think* they know - I rarely find them to be in any way indicative of the knowledge people actually have. I always go by the technical questions they ask and whether they understand my answers - Peter passed this test with flying colours :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 07:10:42 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:10:42 +0800 Subject: User Guide: Call for Errata In-Reply-To: <56301677.7050907@fourthworld.com> References: <56301677.7050907@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > To make sure we cover any errors and omissions you've seen, please send a > brief description with the page number to me at the email address below. > > Bug #12450 Also, ALL references to Mac OS should be removed. LC 7 & 8 will not run on OS 9 so references should only be made to OS X. Both the User Guide and the Dictionary suffer badly from inconsistency of the use of the term Mac OS - sometimes it's referring specifically to OS 9 and at other times it means both 9 and X. Page 258 of the User Guide, under The layer of menu buttons: makes reference to both Mac OS and OS X Same Page but the next Para down, under Changing Menus Dynamically: only refers to Mac OS, but the statement also applies to OS X. To add to the inconsistency the User Guide (I haven't seen it in the Dictionary) also occasionally uses the term Mac OS Classic - see Page 259, top line but in the very next paragraph return to using Mac OS to refer to OS 9. Again, moving forward there should only be one term, either Mac OS X or just OS X and ALL content applicable ONLY to OS 9 should be removed. I've CC'd your other email as requested but posted here as it may trigger some more useful comments on what needs attention. Thanks for taking on this task... it's a BIG one. From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 08:49:26 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:49:26 -0400 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: <56310B11.4020101@gmail.com> References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> <56310B11.4020101@gmail.com> Message-ID: "there is a folder" and "there is a file" can distinguish between the two. Obviously if you want to distinguish visually for the user, or to do it without testing, then including the trailing "/" would work. On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Michael Doub wrote: > When I saw that the output contained both directories and files, adding > the "/" allows you to > easily know that you are looking at a folder rather than a file. > > put directoryListing(whatfolder) into foo > repeat for each line x of foo > if char -1 of x = "/" then > put x & cr after directoryList > else > put x & cr after fileList > end if > > Given a random path that could be either a directory or a file, is there a > clever way to tell what you have? > > -= Mike > > > On 10/28/15 10:55 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> The trailing "/" is an interesting point. I checked and the "set the >> directory" command will happily take a trailing "/" or not, but when you >> "put the directory" you get no trailing "/" >> >> Given that, I'd probably leave it as is, and always assume that the >> description of a particular directory needs to have the "/" added when >> adding a filename or directoryname to it. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 29 09:27:24 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 14:27:24 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-29 00:38, David Bovill wrote: > From my point of view Open Language is the most important aspect of > LiveCode. Without it on the timeline I would not be using LiveCode > today. > I'd be working purely in NodeJS I suspect. It is interesting that NodeJS and Open Language come up in the same post... As it stands, LiveCode and NodeJS actually have a lot in common. Indeed, as long as you are careful about the syntax you use, and the operations you perform, they 'work' in the same way. An event comes in, a message is dispatched to an appropriate object and then that object does a small amount of work, if it needs to do anything more heavy-weight it sets something in motion and ensures a callback is sent when it is done. The key thing here is 'minimal amount of work' it means that the approach is highly scalable in terms of concurrent requests being processed as they can all be interleaved very very efficiently. In LiveCode, socket communication can be entirely callback-based in this model, as can network operations. However, the things that are missing at the moment are callback based variants of the database commands and other such things which might cause 'long pauses' whilst they are performed. (Really database operations and file operations need to be implemented in an event-driven way - so you start one off, and then get a callback when completed). Now, one thing that would make such NodeJS type operations be even easier to use is if you *didn't* have to use callbacks. 'Straight line' code is much much easier to write. e.g. on doMyStuff put url "..." into tStuff put revQueryDatabase(..., tStuff, ...) into tDbStuff put encodeDbStuffForResult(tDbStuff) into tResult return tResult end doMyStuff Is a lot easier to read and maintain than: on doMyStuff load url "..." with message doMyStuff1 end doMyStuff on doMyStuff1 tStuff revQueryDatabaseWithCallback ..., tStuff, ..., "doMyStuff2" end doMyStuff1 on doMyStuff2 tDbStuff encodeDbStuffForResultWithCallback tDbStuff, "doMyStuff3" end doMyStuff2 on doMyStuff3 tResult setResultOfRequest tResult end doMyStuff3 (Note that here I'm imagining various things exist - revQueryDatabaseWithCallback does not currently!) If one steps back, then essentially, the difference between the single handler version, and the callback handler version is that each operation in the single handler version is calling 'wait until ... with messages' (in some form or another). The problem with how LiveCode currently works, however, is the fact that script execution is heavily tied to the system stack (this is the stack which allows nested procedure calls - not a visual stack). This means that 'wait ... with messages' is recursive in LiveCode at the moment and not 'side-by-side'. In the recursive model you have to use the callback-based approach because otherwise a single request might get stalled due to having to wait for another (unrelated) request to finish (as wait nests on the system stack - so all subsequent requests have to resolve but the initial one can). Fixing the recursive model means that script execution has to be completely divorced from the system stack - essentially meaning that the engine can automatically turn the single handler model into a callback based model without the scripter being any the wiser. How does this relate to Open Language? Well, one of the key pieces to implement Open Language is abstracting the way script is executed in the engine in LiveCode so that it no longer has any dependence on the system stack - scripts will be compiled to bytecode which is then executed. This extra level of abstraction gives a great many more choices about *how* scripts are run, and as such opens the door to resolving the 'recursive wait' problem. This will open the door to bringing a simplicity of scripting with LiveCode to an environment where it perhaps wasn't quite so suited to before. Now, of course, NodeJS does use the callback model (although the syntax of JS actually means it is perhaps a little less onerous than LiveCode, at least for one or two step processes) - so in terms of getting to parity with NodeJS the principal thing needed is callback variants of all operations which can block. However, given there are various things in the works in NodeJS to enable 'single handler' type models it does suggest that the callback model could be better. Like most things, whilst Open Language might be an end goal in and of itself with all its benefits, the process of getting their open up a wealth of other opportunities too due to the improvements in the underlying technology that are made along the way. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 29 10:07:21 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:07:21 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> <56257E3D.7040801@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Alex, So which version are you proposing as being current? Is there some reason why you removed handling embedded in 3? On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > This topic reminds me of time. If you think CSV is a standard that has no > standard, making it difficult to program around, then don't even bother > attempting to work with time. Here's a good summary - make sure you watch > to the very end where he discusses the Google approach to one of the vary > many idiosyncrasies of time you've probably never thought of: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY > > Thought you may enjoy whilst nutting out your CSV algo. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 29 11:01:55 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 11:01:55 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56218253.8040706@tweedly.net> <5621844A.90204@tweedly.net> <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> <56257E3D.7040801@tweedly.net> Message-ID: So beyond the embedded , I found another issue. Let's say the string is "test""" The is not handled. Should you perhaps do your substitutions on the "inside", instead of on the "passedQuote"? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 11:14:55 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:14:55 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: <6743c70fbc10fc69f95228123a9e7763@livecode.com> References: <6743c70fbc10fc69f95228123a9e7763@livecode.com> Message-ID: <563237EF.2080205@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-29 02:04, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> And you may have noticed the great job Peter Brett has been doing here >> and elsewhere as the main community support leader within the company. >> He's one of their newer hires, having been brought on board just a >> little over a year ago, but he was hired not only for his Linux >> expertise but also his deep understanding of and passion for open >> source process. > > Just to correct you here as your statement is actually a huge disservice > to Peter and the skills and knowledge he has. Certainly not my intention. I said only very positive things about Peter, and the ones I noted reflect my own personal experience with him in my volunteer role. I'm sure like everyone he has many fine traits beyond the ones I've come to appreciate. I ventured the description I did because it was nearly verbatim how Kevin introduced Peter to me, which has proven more than true in my associations with him. Each of us has dimensions to our skills and personalities that go beyond what any single person they interact with can fully appreciate. Frankly it's difficult to see how taking the time to write even an incomplete list of the many excellent traits Dr. Brett brings to the table is necessarily a "huge disservice". Your additional background here is also good to know: > He was brought on board because he showed a huge interest, ability, and > depth of knowledge in aspects of software engineering for all the > critical areas LiveCode covers and the necessary infrastructure it > requires. Including but by no means limited to: programming language > design and implementation, GUI toolkit architecture, build system > engineering, continuous integration and test system construction, > rigorous engineering process implementation, open source software > communication and community engagement. > > I must confess I never take much stock in CVs in terms of choosing > people for software engineering roles. A lot tend to be just lists of > things which people *think* they know - I rarely find them to be in any > way indicative of the knowledge people actually have. I always go by the > technical questions they ask and whether they understand my answers - > Peter passed this test with flying colours :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 29 11:17:26 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:17:26 +0100 Subject: What is "Open =?UTF-8?Q?Language=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <563237EF.2080205@fourthworld.com> References: <6743c70fbc10fc69f95228123a9e7763@livecode.com> <563237EF.2080205@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <491e7bc00c6472bc6cf656d4e8b0aec1@livecode.com> On 2015-10-29 16:14, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Each of us has dimensions to our skills and personalities that go > beyond what any single person they interact with can fully appreciate. > Frankly it's difficult to see how taking the time to write even an > incomplete list of the many excellent traits Dr. Brett brings to the > table is necessarily a "huge disservice". Apologies - I did perhaps mistake your comments a bit. Warmest Regards, mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Oct 29 11:37:02 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 15:37:02 +0000 Subject: Options for playing mp3 on iOS In-Reply-To: <4FDF054D-F54F-4C8A-86BD-7EBDFE7E4B46@major-k.de> References: <56312350.7010109@cogapp.com> <4FDF054D-F54F-4C8A-86BD-7EBDFE7E4B46@major-k.de> Message-ID: <56323D1E.5060208@cogapp.com> Thanks Klaus (an Alan and John for their replies off-list), - mobilePlaySoundOnChannel is the way to go! Ben On 28/10/2015 21:30, Klaus major-k wrote: > Hi Ben, > >> Am 28.10.2015 um 20:34 schrieb Ben Rubinstein : >> >> I have a small number of mp3 clips that I want to embed in my app and play on demand. >> >> I think that I have three choices, but I may be wrong: >> - audioClip > > imported sound clips do not work on mobile, if you mean that. > However: play ?path/to/sound.mp3? > does work on mobile. > >> - mobilePlaySoundOnChannel >> - a player object > > player objects are also not supported on mobile. > But you can ?mobilecreate? a ?native ?player?, although I?m not sure if this is only for video? > >> Are any of these an out-of-the-box bad idea? Is one of them a clear leader? Or what are the pros and cons? >> >> I'm interested in the pros and cons in general; but in this specific case it may be relevant to note: >> - I don't need to give the user a controller (but don't object to it) > > I think the native player object has one. > >> - I do need to be able to programmatically stop the sound >> - I would like to be able to programatically adjust the volume > > ?the playloudness? is also supported on mobile. > >> Thanks in advance for all wisdom shared! >> >> Ben > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 11:47:18 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:47:18 -0700 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? Message-ID: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> Currently we have the lineOffset function, a very handy way to know the number of a line that matches whatever we're searching for in a block of return-delimited text. However, like most chunk expressions it's able to do what it does by evaluating every character in the chunk, both looking for the matching string and counting CRs as it goes. Many times when we're using lineOffset it's because what we're after isnt the line number but the text of that line. And getting that requires another traversal of the entire chunk to "get line of ". Given how handy chunk expressions are in LiveCode, I'm wondering if it might be even handier to see the introduction of a new function, something that could perhaps be called "lineAtOffset". Like "lineOffset", "lineAtOffset" would take the same arguments and operate similarly, but rather than returning the number of the matching line it would return the text of that line. Questions for you folks: 1. Is this as useful as I think it might be? 2. Is there a better name for the function? 3. Would consistency with wordOffset, trueWordOffiset, and itemOffset bog this down to the point where we'd either have to face an inconsistent world in which only lineAtOffset is supported or wait much longer for a more complete implementation that would also do the others (itemAtOffset, etc). Personally, I'd be fine if this were limited to lines since the other chunk types aren't usually long enough in my own work to have much impact on performance having to make two calls. But as I've noted before, sometimes I'm too easily satisfied and others may have more demanding requirements. 3. Is this worth submitting to the request queue? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 12:52:30 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:52:30 -0700 Subject: User Guide: Call for Errata In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56324ECE.1030300@fourthworld.com> Thanks, Kay. And thanks for the CC - lets me keep all these notes in one place. Please feel free to pass along any other details you come across. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org Kay C Lan wrote: > On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> To make sure we cover any errors and omissions you've seen, please send a >> brief description with the page number to me at the email address below. >> >> Bug #12450 > > Also, ALL references to Mac OS should be removed. LC 7 & 8 will not run on > OS 9 so references should only be made to OS X. Both the User Guide and the > Dictionary suffer badly from inconsistency of the use of the term Mac OS - > sometimes it's referring specifically to OS 9 and at other times it means > both 9 and X. > > Page 258 of the User Guide, under The layer of menu buttons: makes > reference to both Mac OS and OS X > Same Page but the next Para down, under Changing Menus Dynamically: only > refers to Mac OS, but the statement also applies to OS X. > > To add to the inconsistency the User Guide (I haven't seen it in the > Dictionary) also occasionally uses the term Mac OS Classic - see Page 259, > top line but in the very next paragraph return to using Mac OS to refer to > OS 9. > > Again, moving forward there should only be one term, either Mac OS X or > just OS X and ALL content applicable ONLY to OS 9 should be removed. > > I've CC'd your other email as requested but posted here as it may trigger > some more useful comments on what needs attention. > > Thanks for taking on this task... it's a BIG one. From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Oct 29 12:55:39 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:55:39 +0000 Subject: iOS - adding to the Info.plist Message-ID: <56324F8B.4050809@cogapp.com> (I'm getting my toes wet in LC development for iOS again, after staying out of the sharky waters for a couple of years...) Is there currently a 'clean' way to add something to the Info.plist for a new iOS app built by LC? So far the best I've managed is to edit the template Info.plist ("Settings.plist") in the bundle of the LiveCode app, before building it; which is obviously fine as long as I'm only working on one app, but liable to lead me astray when I move on. Is there a better way? If there isn't, could someone tell me what would be wrong with the following (obviously if one wanted to do tricky modifications of the existing items in the plist it would be more complex, but at least for my immediate requirement I just want to add a key)... Looking at how this works, it appears that we could a) add an extra "${ADDITIONAL-PLIST_SETTINGS}" placeholder to the settings file b) add one line to revsaveasiosstandalone.livecodescript/revCreateMobilePlist, e.g. replace "${ADDITIONAL-PLIST_SETTINGS}" with pSettings["ios,custom plist fragment"] in pPlist and then it would be up to the developer to add a syntactically correct value in the cRevStandaloneSettings of their stack (and for any stack without it, the placeholder would just be replaced with empty). Apart from the fact that a better solution would probably not add new keys to cRevStandaloneSettings not known about by the UI, this seems so simple that I imagine that either there's something dreadfully wrong with it, or there's already a better solution which I just haven't managed to locate yet. Either way, please tell me! Many thanks, Ben From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Oct 29 13:11:04 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:11:04 +0000 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56325328.60702@cogapp.com> On 29/10/2015 15:47, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Like "lineOffset", "lineAtOffset" would take the same arguments and > operate similarly, but rather than returning the number of the matching > line it would return the text of that line. > > Questions for you folks: > > 1. Is this as useful as I think it might be? > > 2.... > > 3. Is this worth submitting to the request queue? My ?0.02 for what they're worth: Of course this could be useful occasionally - but I'm not sure the value outweighs the cost - not so much the cost of implementation, as the cost of adding more words to the language. In code, it saves a single line. In efficiency, I grant there's a cost; but it seems to me that if the cost was high (i.e. you're searching in a really long piece of text, and you're doing it a very large number of times) then you could choose to mitigate that cost in various ways (e.g. doing split to get an array indexed by line number, or (depending on your situation) doing "offset" instead of line offset, and then taking a chunk starting sufficiently before the found character position and doing "lineoffset" on that... But mainly, I'm agin this proposal because, if there were to be changes to the offset suite of functions, I'd much rather that effort was spent on making them work backwards. It's fast and simple to do offset, lineoffset, etc to find the first occurrence of a fragment, or to walk 'forward' through the occurrences of a fragment; but it's neither fast nor simple to get the last occurrence, or to walk backwards through the occurences. There's an inconsistency here - LC makes it as easy to ask for the last item, or the third line from the end, as it does the first item, or the third line. But the *offset functions only work in one direction. Also note that implementing the backwards offsets needn't (I think) require adding any new keywords, because we can use the skip parameter with a negative number. Sorry to hijack your thread! Ben From skip at magicgate.com Thu Oct 29 13:24:02 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:24:02 -0400 Subject: Windows standalones not closing properly In-Reply-To: <56313B57.3080804@hyperactivesw.com> References: <563130CB.10504@fourthworld.com> <56313B57.3080804@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Windows 7 and LC 7.1 SKIP On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 5:17 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > It also happens if there are any drivers that weren't closed. > > On 10/28/2015 3:45 PM, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel wrote: > >> Nope, no timers pending. This is consistent across ANY Windows standalone >> I create. >> >> SKIP >> >> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Richard Gaskin < >> ambassador at fourthworld.com> >> wrote: >> >> Skip, do you have any timers pending? >>> >> > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Oct 29 13:24:08 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:24:08 -0400 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <150b4a0cab9-5167-8e08@webprd-m14.mail.aol.com> Richard. Ben makes a point. Several, in fact. FWIW, I have always just: get line lineOffset(someText,myField) of myField I bet you have too. So I never found this too onerous. There are a bunch of these little combo-kluges... Craig -----Original Message----- From: Richard Gaskin To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2015 11:48 am Subject: "lineAtOffset"? Currently we have the lineOffset function, a very handy way to know the number of a line that matches whatever we're searching for in a block of return-delimited text. However, like most chunk expressions it's able to do what it does by evaluating every character in the chunk, both looking for the matching string and counting CRs as it goes. Many times when we're using lineOffset it's because what we're after isnt the line number but the text of that line. And getting that requires another traversal of the entire chunk to "get line of ". Given how handy chunk expressions are in LiveCode, I'm wondering if it might be even handier to see the introduction of a new function, something that could perhaps be called "lineAtOffset". Like "lineOffset", "lineAtOffset" would take the same arguments and operate similarly, but rather than returning the number of the matching line it would return the text of that line. Questions for you folks: 1. Is this as useful as I think it might be? 2. Is there a better name for the function? 3. Would consistency with wordOffset, trueWordOffiset, and itemOffset bog this down to the point where we'd either have to face an inconsistent world in which only lineAtOffset is supported or wait much longer for a more complete implementation that would also do the others (itemAtOffset, etc). Personally, I'd be fine if this were limited to lines since the other chunk types aren't usually long enough in my own work to have much impact on performance having to make two calls. But as I've noted before, sometimes I'm too easily satisfied and others may have more demanding requirements. 3. Is this worth submitting to the request queue? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Thu Oct 29 12:08:04 2015 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Application Data In-Reply-To: References: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> Message-ID: <1446134884821-4698215.post@n4.nabble.com> There's one potential problem with cloning or copying a group or controls from one stack to another... In a standalone that uses password protection, the engine will silently block the copy/clone operation as part of that protection. (In the IDE, everything works fine. It's only shows up as a problem when you build a protected standalone.) So when using stacks as user files in a protected app, I've found these two things are necessary: 1) make those user file stacks unprotected. 2) any controls or groups being copied into the user stacks needs to originate from stacks (or substacks) that are also not protected. Hope that's useful. Tom Bodine -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Application-Data-tp4698191p4698215.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Oct 29 12:20:35 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:20:35 +0000 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, It would really not take long to implement this, nor would it take much longer to implement it for the other chunk types. The way string chunks have been refactored, you would (for example) immediately get the item version for free with the line version. So no need to consider question 3, from my point of view! On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 3:47 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Currently we have the lineOffset function, a very handy way to know the > number of a line that matches whatever we're searching for in a block of > return-delimited text. > > However, like most chunk expressions it's able to do what it does by > evaluating every character in the chunk, both looking for the matching > string and counting CRs as it goes. > > Many times when we're using lineOffset it's because what we're after > isnt the line number but the text of that line. And getting that > requires another traversal of the entire chunk to "get line > of ". > > Given how handy chunk expressions are in LiveCode, I'm wondering if it > might be even handier to see the introduction of a new function, > something that could perhaps be called "lineAtOffset". > > Like "lineOffset", "lineAtOffset" would take the same arguments and > operate similarly, but rather than returning the number of the matching > line it would return the text of that line. > > Questions for you folks: > > 1. Is this as useful as I think it might be? > > 2. Is there a better name for the function? > > 3. Would consistency with wordOffset, trueWordOffiset, and itemOffset > bog this down to the point where we'd either have to face an > inconsistent world in which only lineAtOffset is supported or wait much > longer for a more complete implementation that would also do the others > (itemAtOffset, etc). Personally, I'd be fine if this were limited to > lines since the other chunk types aren't usually long enough in my own > work to have much impact on performance having to make two calls. But > as I've noted before, sometimes I'm too easily satisfied and others may > have more demanding requirements. > > 3. Is this worth submitting to the request queue? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 13:28:38 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:28:38 -0700 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56325328.60702@cogapp.com> References: <56325328.60702@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <56325746.9070505@fourthworld.com> Ben Rubinstein wrote: > On 29/10/2015 15:47, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Like "lineOffset", "lineAtOffset" would take the same arguments and >> operate similarly, but rather than returning the number of the matching >> line it would return the text of that line. ... > Of course this could be useful occasionally - but I'm not sure the value > outweighs the cost - not so much the cost of implementation, as the cost of > adding more words to the language. > > In code, it saves a single line. > > In efficiency, I grant there's a cost; but it seems to me that if the cost was > high (i.e. you're searching in a really long piece of text, and you're doing > it a very large number of times) then you could choose to mitigate that cost > in various ways (e.g. doing split to get an array indexed by line number, or > (depending on your situation) doing "offset" instead of line offset, and then > taking a chunk starting sufficiently before the found character position and > doing "lineoffset" on that... True, we have alternatives. I guess it boils down to how important we feel chunk expressions are as a defining part of the language. Array splits are convenient and an excellent choice if you anticipate needing to extract values often. But for a one-time lookup, the overhead of split can outweigh the cost of lineoffset + getting the line text. I've been using character offsets for some cases as you describe, and since offset deals with fixed-size characters it's faster than any other chunk expression that needs to parse by delimiters. But at that point the logic of my code starts to resemble how I'd do things in JavaScript or other common languages, fine for me but not the celebration of chunk expressions I find resonates with newcomers when I'm teaching the language. > But mainly, I'm agin this proposal because, if there were to be changes to the > offset suite of functions, I'd much rather that effort was spent on making > them work backwards. It's fast and simple to do offset, lineoffset, etc to > find the first occurrence of a fragment, or to walk 'forward' through the > occurrences of a fragment; but it's neither fast nor simple to get the last > occurrence, or to walk backwards through the occurences. > > There's an inconsistency here - LC makes it as easy to ask for the last item, > or the third line from the end, as it does the first item, or the third line. > But the *offset functions only work in one direction. > > Also note that implementing the backwards offsets needn't (I think) require > adding any new keywords, because we can use the skip parameter with a negative > number. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. Isn't there a request for backwards offset in the RQCC? > Sorry to hijack your thread! Not at all. My tastes and preferences are only my own, so it's helpful to get feedback from others. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 29 13:28:57 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:28:57 +0000 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: At a Macro level, it doesn't really practically matter that the nearest inhabitable planet is 10 or 100 light years away. We'll never get there On a micro level it doesn't seem to matter that it takes 1ms or 10ms to complete a function or command. No one will notice. I guess the real questions are, how long does it take to find the last line in the largest bit of text Livecode can handle, and is using lineOffset the best way to handle extremely large strings? And who needs to work with extremely long text strings in the first place?? It seems to me that this is a kind of niche application. I begin to wonder how Microsoft Word does it? If you want to find a word toward the end of a very large document, I think it's understood that it might take a while. No one expects the results to be instantaneous, so long as there is some kind of progress indicator. So my gut feeling is, for smaller strings the time it takes is really inconsequential. For larger strings it seems like adding an argument to the existing function to designate what data you want returned would suffice. Also, didn't someone do some work comparing lineOffset with repeat for each line? Once you find the line, you found it, and you could do multiple string comparisons in one pass as an added bonus. If I had an absurdly long bit of text to work with I'd do it myself. my 2? Bob S > On Oct 29, 2015, at 08:47 , Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Currently we have the lineOffset function, a very handy way to know the number of a line that matches whatever we're searching for in a block of return-delimited text. > > However, like most chunk expressions it's able to do what it does by evaluating every character in the chunk, both looking for the matching string and counting CRs as it goes. > > Many times when we're using lineOffset it's because what we're after isnt the line number but the text of that line. And getting that requires another traversal of the entire chunk to "get line of ". > > Given how handy chunk expressions are in LiveCode, I'm wondering if it might be even handier to see the introduction of a new function, something that could perhaps be called "lineAtOffset". > > Like "lineOffset", "lineAtOffset" would take the same arguments and operate similarly, but rather than returning the number of the matching line it would return the text of that line. > > Questions for you folks: > > 1. Is this as useful as I think it might be? > > 2. Is there a better name for the function? > > 3. Would consistency with wordOffset, trueWordOffiset, and itemOffset bog this down to the point where we'd either have to face an inconsistent world in which only lineAtOffset is supported or wait much longer for a more complete implementation that would also do the others (itemAtOffset, etc). Personally, I'd be fine if this were limited to lines since the other chunk types aren't usually long enough in my own work to have much impact on performance having to make two calls. But as I've noted before, sometimes I'm too easily satisfied and others may have more demanding requirements. > > 3. Is this worth submitting to the request queue? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 29 13:33:31 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:33:31 +0000 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56325746.9070505@fourthworld.com> References: <56325328.60702@cogapp.com> <56325746.9070505@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0A49EB0D-459E-4098-8034-48BD44F43D2F@iotecdigital.com> You know what would be really useful for this is the old Hypercard indexing engine! ;-) Seriously though, splitting to an array does not help as there is currently no way to search the elements of an array. Since repeat for each line does a kind of line indexing in memory, it should be much faster if you check for each thing being searched for in a single pass. Bob S On Oct 29, 2015, at 10:28 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: On 29/10/2015 15:47, Richard Gaskin wrote: Like "lineOffset", "lineAtOffset" would take the same arguments and operate similarly, but rather than returning the number of the matching line it would return the text of that line. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 13:37:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:37:39 -0700 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56325963.7030108@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > So my gut feeling is, for smaller strings the time it takes is really > inconsequential. For larger strings it seems like adding an argument > to the existing function to designate what data you want returned > would suffice. What would that syntax look like? > Also, didn't someone do some work comparing lineOffset with repeat > for each line? That's effectively what I'm proposing here, an option that allows us to not only know the line number but also return the text at that line, just as "repeat for each line..." does that "repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines..." doesn't. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Oct 29 13:39:10 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:10 -0700 Subject: Application Data In-Reply-To: <1446134884821-4698215.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <785BFFD3-4D51-4111-A270-8E8E54141519@me.com> <1446134884821-4698215.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <378B35AF-D00B-4283-BB82-B2691C5F49FA@me.com> Tom, Thanks very much for this info! You?re saving me a lot of grief!! Peter On Oct 29, 2015, at 9:08 AM, tbodine wrote: > There's one potential problem with cloning or copying a group or controls > from one stack to another... In a standalone that uses password protection, > the engine will silently block the copy/clone operation as part of that > protection. (In the IDE, everything works fine. It's only shows up as a > problem when you build a protected standalone.) > > So when using stacks as user files in a protected app, I've found these two > things are necessary: > 1) make those user file stacks unprotected. > 2) any controls or groups being copied into the user stacks needs to > originate from stacks (or substacks) that are also not protected. > > Hope that's useful. > > Tom Bodine > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Application-Data-tp4698191p4698215.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 13:39:44 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:44 -0700 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <563259E0.7060907@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > Hi Richard, > It would really not take long to implement this, nor would it take > much longer to implement it for the other chunk types. The way string > chunks have been refactored, you would (for example) immediately get > the item version for free with the line version. Thanks, Ali. Good to know. Given the chunk refactoring, how difficult would it be to implement Ben Rubinstein's request for backwards offsets? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.co From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 29 13:45:08 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:45:08 +0000 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56325963.7030108@fourthworld.com> References: <56325963.7030108@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <30B4CA6D-3255-4D18-B77E-A9980AB446C5@iotecdigital.com> > > What would that syntax look like? put lineOffset("foo", tFooBar, "data") into tFooFighers The default value for arg 3 would be the numbered index the way it currently is. So no one's code would need to be altered for it to work. What is the largest text string Livecode can work with? I'll find something and run benchmarks on each method. Bob S > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 13:48:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:48:16 -0700 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <0A49EB0D-459E-4098-8034-48BD44F43D2F@iotecdigital.com> References: <0A49EB0D-459E-4098-8034-48BD44F43D2F@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <56325BE0.1060900@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > You know what would be really useful for this is the old Hypercard > indexing engine! ;-) IIRC HyperCard's "hint bits" was a bitmap index of terms in fields across cards, useful for its find command but not lineoffset. A while back I had too much time on my hands and started exploring ways we might make bitmap indices in LC, per: But as things go I had to get back to real work so I never got any further with that than I did experimenting with Bloom filters: They're very different but both useful in a wide range of contexts, so if any of you happens to have code for making and using those in LC please feel free to share. Even with LC's handy bitwise operators, I suspect making either of those efficiently would be best left to an external, even better since there's tons of sample code lying around for them in other languages. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 29 13:50:14 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 18:50:14 +0100 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=22lineAtOffset=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2e9de5425024ad62199b3cf834f0c3ca@livecode.com> On 2015-10-29 16:47, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Given how handy chunk expressions are in LiveCode, I'm wondering if it > might be even handier to see the introduction of a new function, > something that could perhaps be called "lineAtOffset". Okay so: lineAtOffset(x, y, z) Would be the same as: line lineOffset(x, y, z) of y Presumably with the rule that if x is not in the lines of y, the return value is empty. > Questions for you folks: > > 1. Is this as useful as I think it might be? It certainly cuts down a few chars to type... In theory you only have to scan the string once up until the first delimiter after the needle string - so it would be more efficient (with a suitable implementation). > 2. Is there a better name for the function? Yes - I think there probably is. I'm not sure lineAtOffset() actually reads quite as well as it could for this purpose. > 3. Would consistency with wordOffset, trueWordOffiset, and itemOffset > bog this down to the point where we'd either have to face an ... > make two calls. But as I've noted before, sometimes I'm too easily > satisfied and others may have more demanding requirements. Consistency and completeness are important here. If we are going to introduce a function for one chunk type, then chances are someone will ask very quickly for one for another similar chunk type. So, it is always important to plan to make sure that it makes sense for 'all similar things'. > 3. Is this worth submitting to the request queue? You can put it in as an enhancement. However, I'd caution that there is more thinking to do here both in terms of the naming and how it fits in with future potential functionality. Thinking of things as functions really isn't a good way to go - (sorry to 'bang the drum' slightly) but LiveCode is an English-like language and so we should be cautious adding any functions for which potential English-like syntax has not been determined. Indeed, I always find that thinking in terms of English-like syntax tends to open eyes to potential variations. For example adding 'lineAtOffset/wordAtOffset/itemAtOffset/...' seems quite ugly. However, imagine the syntax like this: the line containing x in y the word containing x in y the item containing x in y ... Suddenly, a clear pattern starts to emerge and you can start to see what you could do if you just add adjectives, and prepositions: the last word containing x in y the first line containing x in y after index 2 Anyway, just my thoughts at the moment. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 29 13:59:43 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 18:59:43 +0100 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=22lineAtOffset=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <56325328.60702@cogapp.com> References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> <56325328.60702@cogapp.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-29 18:11, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Of course this could be useful occasionally - but I'm not sure the > value outweighs the cost - not so much the cost of implementation, as > the cost of adding more words to the language. That's the problem if you use functional forms. In an English-like setting though that concern goes: Offset() => the offset of x [ after y ] in z It is the camel-casing which causes keyword explosion (synonyms aren't really a problem when you don't have to camel-case things). > But mainly, I'm agin this proposal because, if there were to be > changes to the offset suite of functions, I'd much rather that effort > was spent on making them work backwards. It's fast and simple to do > offset, lineoffset, etc to find the first occurrence of a fragment, or > to walk 'forward' through the occurrences of a fragment; but it's > neither fast nor simple to get the last occurrence, or to walk > backwards through the occurences. Indeed - this is true. We've experimented with English-like syntax for this in LCB: the [ first | last ] index of x [ ( before | after ) y ] in z > Also note that implementing the backwards offsets needn't (I think) > require adding any new keywords, because we can use the skip parameter > with a negative number. I think that might work for the offset() functions - I shall ponder... The resulting value would probably have to be negative as well - since offset() and friends return the delta between the starting index and the found index (which I'm not sure is actually as useful as absolute offsets). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 14:47:32 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 14:47:32 -0400 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <2e9de5425024ad62199b3cf834f0c3ca@livecode.com> References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> <2e9de5425024ad62199b3cf834f0c3ca@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > the line containing x in y > the word containing x in y > the item containing x in y > ... > > Suddenly, a clear pattern starts to emerge and you can start to see what > you could do if you just add adjectives, and prepositions: > > the last word containing x in y > the first line containing x in y after index 2 > How about: line 1 containing x in y word 47 containing x in y item -3 containing x in y Adding an index allows for a natural english syntax, a clear result, maximum flexibility, and pathological extension, i.e.: word -2 containing "i" in item 14 containing "test" in line 23 containing "index" Another thing to consider is that this method doesn't allow for getting both the line/item/word and the index of it. I don't have a good English syntax for that off the top of my head. This syntax would make it easy to do a more detailed match: line 4 matching "a*b" in y From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 29 15:24:14 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 14:24:14 -0500 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56325963.7030108@fourthworld.com> References: <56325963.7030108@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5632725E.3070703@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/29/2015 12:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > So my gut feeling is, for smaller strings the time it takes is really > > inconsequential. For larger strings it seems like adding an argument > > to the existing function to designate what data you want returned > > would suffice. > > What would that syntax look like? I sort of like this idea. There could be an extra parameter in the lineOffset function: get lineOffset("foo",tText,"text") The third parameter could be either "text" or "number". If the third param is missing, or if it's "number", then we get the number back as we do now. If it's "text" we get the text value. That retains backward compatibility. "Text" and "number" are just suggestions; the actual words could be anything that describes the values appropriately. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 15:33:30 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:33:30 -0700 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <5632725E.3070703@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5632725E.3070703@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5632748A.5070906@fourthworld.com> J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 10/29/2015 12:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Bob Sneidar wrote: >> >> > So my gut feeling is, for smaller strings the time it takes is >> > really inconsequential. For larger strings it seems like adding >> > an argument to the existing function to designate what data you >> > want returned would suffice. >> >> What would that syntax look like? > > I sort of like this idea. There could be an extra parameter in the > lineOffset function: > > get lineOffset("foo",tText,"text") > > The third parameter could be either "text" or "number". If the third > param is missing, or if it's "number", then we get the number back as > we do now. If it's "text" we get the text value. That retains > backward compatibility. > > "Text" and "number" are just suggestions; the actual words could be > anything that describes the values appropriately. I like the compactness, but have mixed feelings about the semantics. When the third arg is an integer it specifies a starting offset, but when the third arg is the string "text" it specifies the return value type. In addition to mixing purposes, what would we do if we want to return text but also specify a starting offset? We might consider using a fourth argument for return type and leave the third for starting offset, but given how frequently offset is used without a specified start I'd guess most of the time it'd just be an empty arg: get lineoffset("foo", tText,"","text") -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 29 15:48:23 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 14:48:23 -0500 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <5632748A.5070906@fourthworld.com> References: <5632725E.3070703@hyperactivesw.com> <5632748A.5070906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56327807.60901@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/29/2015 2:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > We might consider using a fourth argument for return type and leave the > third for starting offset, but given how frequently offset is used > without a specified start I'd guess most of the time it'd just be an > empty arg: > > get lineoffset("foo", tText,"","text") My mistake, I forgot about the "skip" parameter. So yes, the addition would have to be a fourth parameter and that does make things a little more complex. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Thu Oct 29 15:53:02 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:53:02 -1000 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <9e5f96aeea4287fa170f90160b5482e8@livecode.com> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <9e5f96aeea4287fa170f90160b5482e8@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> "However it is important to remember that not everyone uses LiveCode to the same ends - there will probably be as many people on this list who would see SVG as a much lower priority than ." With all due respect for the team, your business goals, roadmap and planning: IMHO calling SVG "lower priority" this is again symptomatic of LC Headquarters/Leadership, not realizing how significant "the presentation layer" is in today's world and this goes to the long delays in the image and media processing and delivery features we have been asking for nearly 15 years. FIRST: At the upper end of the software business (think JP Morgan UX designers using Axure for prototyping) the whole world of software waking up to the how things work, there is a huge shift to the "discovery" process in a client/software vendor relationship. This also includes how things are done in house. This also goes to the Agile mode of development. I (we) have to build a prototype of things to show people whose response is going to be highly "biased to the presentation layer of the "product" and this has to be done "now" at the beginning of the cycle. and that whole "up front" design process is built on images, sound and video with no code. The consensus "get your front end clarified, signed of on by stack holders first *then* start coding" is very broad. if we cannot include vector graphs in the mix from the get go, then Livecode is seen as incompetent for the job, even it that job may be, later, a full enterprise suite of tools for management, database, global business etc. So, excuse me for saying it, but I think it is a seriously flawed concept to think that LC's, graphics, audio and video layers are somehow second place in the over all scheme of what you need to do to make LC successful in the future. I do, really, have, on my team a UX designer for JP Morgan, and if I were to ask her to play with LiveCode and she not could easily import Vector graphics, or show video on all platforms easily; she would have to tell her boss that "Livecode will useless for our 1/2 million dollar business project, we have to choose another platform." SECOND: low end market: Richmond's "kiddie" world = 100,000's potential adopters of the community platform at a very young age (I have a real case here where I encouraged this man to have his grandson try LC to learn programming) But as soon as the kid discovers he cannot import any vector graphic of "Garfield the Cat" from his clip art web world... he will ask his grandfather to suggest some other platform. Ergo, please [my old, old rant] do not underestimate the importance of the media delivery requirements, or think these are somehow "different" from your business requirements. Yes, they may be for some client like the water works of Seattle, but that is a small subset of your potential future adopters through all levels, from million $ enterprise... all the way down to teachers deciding "what shall I get for my class to use to tinker with code" If the media delivery channel of the product (images, all formats, video, sound) is sub par... you are out of the running on day one. BR Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-21 16:53, Terence Heaford wrote: >>> On 21 Oct 2015, at 10:28, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>> >>> It is very similar to CoreGraphics (but actually has a number of >>> features beyond which CG offers). e.g. >>> MCGContextCreate(-> myContext) >>> MCGContextSetRGBAFillColor(myContext, 1, 0, 0, 0.5) >>> MCGContextAddRectangle(myContext, [0, 0, 400, 400]) >>> MCGContextFill(myContext) >> Does this not do it? or similar? >> >> -(void) drawRect: (CGRect) rect >> { >> CGContextRef context = UIGraphicsGetCurrentContext(); >> >> UIColor * redColor = [UIColor colorWithRed:1.0 green:0.0 blue:0.0 >> alpha:1.0]; >> >> CGContextSetFillColorWithColor(context, redColor.CGColor); >> >> CGContextFillRect(context, self.bounds); >> } >> > > Yes - that would be the CG API version of the LibGraphics API - I did > say it was similar :) > > I wasn't suggesting that ssmple code example was an example of features > LibGraphics has which CoreGraphics does not (although I can see how it > could be read like that - oops). > > LibGraphics incorporates various features relating to bitmap effects in > its API. CoreGraphics only has 'drop-shadow' abilities - LibGraphics > does the whole stack of bitmap effects you see exposed via the > bitmapEffects property. It also has a number of gradient types which > CoreGraphics does not support. > > Eventually LibGraphics will (hopefully) have APIs added to enable the > range of filter processing operations SVG allows - in order to expand > SVG support in the future (again, something CoreGraphics does not have). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 29 15:54:05 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 14:54:05 -0500 Subject: iOS - adding to the Info.plist In-Reply-To: <56324F8B.4050809@cogapp.com> References: <56324F8B.4050809@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <5632795D.4030006@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/29/2015 11:55 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > Is there currently a 'clean' way to add something to the Info.plist for > a new iOS app built by LC? Back in April, Monte submitted a pull request to allow us to provide a custom manifest for Android builds. I don't know whether that includes iOS pLists too, but if it doesn't maybe it could be added. We currently have the ability to include our own pList for OS X builds. Maybe the same thing could be done for iOS. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 29 16:06:23 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:06:23 +0100 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=22lineAtOffset=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5632748A.5070906@fourthworld.com> References: <5632725E.3070703@hyperactivesw.com> <5632748A.5070906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <14a1afb8007e38b04b47f02a29530c68@livecode.com> On 2015-10-29 20:33, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I like the compactness, but have mixed feelings about the semantics. I think it is less compact than a function form with appropriately chosen name (or suitable English-like syntax). Semantics wise it is introducing dynamicity in a case where there is absolutely no need for it... > We might consider using a fourth argument for return type and leave > the third for starting offset, but given how frequently offset is used > without a specified start I'd guess most of the time it'd just be an > empty arg: > > get lineoffset("foo", tText,"","text") For me, this fails two 'tests' one could imagine for choosing syntax: 1) It makes an operation which is 'static' (i.e. chosen at the point of compilation) 'dynamic' (needing switching at runtime to perform). Now dynamicity is very important in making generalization possible. However, in this case, there isn't really a reasonable case for it - if "text" is specified as the final parameter then it will return a string, if not it will return a number. These two different things make it unlikely that at a single point of code you would need to choose dynamically (as supporting code would need to be different) and such you are taking the performance impact of dynamicity in a case where it would never be used. 2) It is likely that the "text" option will see almost as much use as the non-"text" option (which is why - beyond performance reasons - there is definitely an abstraction lurking that deserves its own form) but with the modification needed to make it uniform we end up with a situation where one option is significantly more difficult to access than the other. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 16:10:33 2015 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 20:10:33 +0000 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <9e5f96aeea4287fa170f90160b5482e8@livecode.com> <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> Message-ID: Well, I completely agree with the statement that for clients presentation layer must be state of art and give a convincing experience, and LC should give full support for building it easily. I also see the big majority of applications needing this. And vector inage support is a pressing must in my eyes. Roland From blueback09 at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 16:15:47 2015 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:15:47 -0700 Subject: "start using stack" only working in IDE Message-ID: Am I missing something really basic? I created a new stack and all I put into its script was some code to change the defaultFolder to the stack's folder, 'start using' a script-only stack in the same folder, and call the only handler in that scrip-only stack (which creates an answer popup). This always works in the IDE but it never works as a standalone, even after printing out the path 'start using' is getting to confirm it's the right folder. Here are the details if they're helpful http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25730&p=133742#p133742 -Matt From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 29 16:18:46 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:18:46 +1100 Subject: iOS - adding to the Info.plist In-Reply-To: <5632795D.4030006@hyperactivesw.com> References: <56324F8B.4050809@cogapp.com> <5632795D.4030006@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9500DAB4-8CCD-49E2-AC13-840D44ED092F@sweattechnologies.com> > On 30 Oct 2015, at 6:54 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Back in April, Monte submitted a pull request to allow us to provide a custom manifest for Android builds. I don't know whether that includes iOS pLists too, but if it doesn't maybe it could be added. > > We currently have the ability to include our own pList for OS X builds. Maybe the same thing could be done for iOS. Yes it does now as I went back and added it for iOS too. Copy the template plist from out of LC. Edit to your heart?s content. Name it Info.plist and add it to copy files. Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 16:23:43 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:23:43 -0700 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> References: <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> Message-ID: <5632804F.4030403@fourthworld.com> Brahmanathaswami wrote: > IMHO calling SVG "lower priority" this is again symptomatic of LC > Headquarters/Leadership, not realizing how significant "the > presentation layer" is in today's world... ... > if we cannot include vector graphs in the mix from the get go, then > Livecode is seen as incompetent for the job, even it that job may be, > later, a full enterprise suite of tools for management, database, > global business etc. I think I'm missing something here. We have vector graphics now as we've had for years, but we've been limited to a set of primitives that include ovals, polygons, rectangles, etc, but not Beziers or other more complex shapes, nor the ability to mix types like arc, line, and Bezier in a single path. SGV supports this, and to reinforce the scope of benefit for exposing SGV data as a settable property for Skia to render, some of the issues Mark Talluto has reported were for raster images - but the only reason he's using raster images at all is because he doesn't have SGV-style paths to work with which would give him the shapes he needs even more flexibly. But here's where I'm confused: When Trevor DeVore presented at our local LiveCode User Group meeting a couple months ago, he showed us a Widget that allowed him to put SVG data into it as easily as we set points in a polygon. That seems very much like what you're looking for, and what Mark Talluto's looking for, and many others. Was I dreaming? I'd thought there was an SVGIcon Widget for that purpose, no? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Oct 29 16:25:45 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:25:45 +0100 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=22lineAtOffset=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> <2e9de5425024ad62199b3cf834f0c3ca@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-29 19:47, Geoff Canyon wrote: > How about: > > line 1 containing x in y > word 47 containing x in y > item -3 containing x in y I must confess I'm not 100% sure of what these mean - I see two possibilities: 1) item Z containing x in y - is the first item after item Z which contains x where y is the string to search 2) item Z containing x in y - the Z'th item containing x where y is the string to search Interpretation (1) is equivalent to the originally proposed 'itemAtOffset'. (Okay so it was lineAtOffset, but mutatis mutandis). Interpretation (2) is something slightly different to what we have now and perhaps wouldn't easily fit (obviously) into a functional form. > Adding an index allows for a natural english syntax, a clear result, > maximum flexibility, and pathological extension, i.e.: > > word -2 containing "i" in item 14 containing "test" in line 23 > containing > "index" Any non-function like syntax would allow stacking naturally as the result of the expression after the 'in' would be evaluated first, so actions further to left would evaluate on the substrings produced by those to the right (of the 'in'). (Obviously function versions would stack to, but be nested rather than left to right). > This syntax would make it easy to do a more detailed match: > > line 4 matching "a*b" in y I've always quite liked the idea of: item 4 of y where it matches "a*b" Indeed, that makes me think that you are thinking interpretation (2) above (please do correct me if I'm wrong). Actually, with a 'where' clause, Richard's itemAtOffset function would become: the first item of y where it contains "a" In either case (where or containing) I'd be concerned that there is a lack of clarity of what 'item N ...' means. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 29 16:35:41 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:35:41 -0700 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <5632804F.4030403@fourthworld.com> References: <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> <5632804F.4030403@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <535D0F4A-9387-4240-9AC6-1C75B49C2DED@tactilemedia.com> SVG is LiveCode 8 widgets only. AFAIK, in 8 the current "built in" vector graphic offering is characters from the FontAwesome font, and while you and I might be comfortable copying points from SVG files into LiveCode, I think you'd agree that's not exactly the best user experience. :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Oct 29, 2015, at 1:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > When Trevor DeVore presented at our local LiveCode User Group meeting a couple months ago, he showed us a Widget that allowed him to put SVG data into it as easily as we set points in a polygon. > > That seems very much like what you're looking for, and what Mark Talluto's looking for, and many others. > > Was I dreaming? > > I'd thought there was an SVGIcon Widget for that purpose, no? From sundown at pacifier.com Thu Oct 29 16:47:20 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:47:20 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> <972F7F68-33CC-4E35-83EB-F68ED2C69BDE@pacifier.com> <661BD430-305F-4ED7-8D58-AEA5BC0B87E7@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <93693AF2-C60B-442A-AEDD-38C10DE88D5A@pacifier.com> This is a mouseUp handler to be used with Geoff Canyon?s function directoryListing. Paste the code below in field script and set the lock text of the field to true. I had a bug in the last version and used the word controlKey twice in the launch script. It is now corrected to use controlKey and commandKey. JB on mouseUp put 1 into cNum if target = empty then answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" put it into whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,cNum) into target exit to top end if if the controlKey is down and the optionKey is down then put empty into target exit to top end if if the controlKey is down and the commandKey is down then put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into tLaunch launch document tLaunch exit to top end if if the controlKey is down then put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into whatFolder set itemDel to "/" delete last item of whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,cNum) into target exit to top end if if the optionKey is down then set itemDel to "/" sort lines of target descending by last item of each exit to top end if if the commandKey is down then set itemDel to "/" sort lines of target ascending by last item of each exit to top end if put word 2 of the clickline into tLine put line tLine of target into whatFolder set cursor to watch put directoryListing(whatFolder,cNum) into target end mouseUp function directoryListing whatFolder,c put whatFolder & cr into R set the directory to whatFolder if c = 0 or the result is not empty then return R put the files into tFileList sort tFileList replace cr with cr & whatFolder & "/" in tFileList put whatFolder & "/" & tFileList & cr after R put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList sort tDirList repeat for each line L in tDirList put directoryListing((whatFolder & "/" & L),(c-1)) after R end repeat return R end directoryListing From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 29 17:02:20 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:02:20 +0000 Subject: "start using stack" only working in IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5980EF3D-1BC4-4705-9BB5-E874C7959449@iotecdigital.com> The defaultFolder of a standalone is the home folder of the app itself, if I am not mistaken. You can change the defaultFolder in which case it will become that. What I decided to do at some point in the past was have a settings card where the user can select a working folder, without which commands and functions that required it would fail with a warning dialog. Bob S > On Oct 29, 2015, at 13:15 , Matt Maier wrote: > > Am I missing something really basic? I created a new stack and all I put > into its script was some code to change the defaultFolder to the stack's > folder, 'start using' a script-only stack in the same folder, and call the > only handler in that scrip-only stack (which creates an answer popup). > > This always works in the IDE but it never works as a standalone, even after > printing out the path 'start using' is getting to confirm it's the right > folder. > > Here are the details if they're helpful > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25730&p=133742#p133742 > > -Matt > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 17:02:15 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:02:15 -0400 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> <2e9de5425024ad62199b3cf834f0c3ca@livecode.com> Message-ID: I knew there was the possibility that it was vague, so I threw it out there without explanation to see -- and it's vague. I was definitely going for interpretation 2. So my item 4 of y matching "a*b" would be the same as your item 4 of y where it matches "a*b" and whatever the syntax, if y were "aloft,ahab,about,alob,atob,dog,a flub,ack,a bob,ask,a tomb" would return "a flub" On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-29 19:47, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> How about: >> >> line 1 containing x in y >> word 47 containing x in y >> item -3 containing x in y >> > > I must confess I'm not 100% sure of what these mean - I see two > possibilities: > > 1) item Z containing x in y - is the first item after item Z which > contains x where y is the string to search > > 2) item Z containing x in y - the Z'th item containing x where y is the > string to search > > Interpretation (1) is equivalent to the originally proposed > 'itemAtOffset'. (Okay so it was lineAtOffset, but mutatis mutandis). > > Interpretation (2) is something slightly different to what we have now and > perhaps wouldn't easily fit (obviously) into a functional form. > > Adding an index allows for a natural english syntax, a clear result, >> maximum flexibility, and pathological extension, i.e.: >> >> word -2 containing "i" in item 14 containing "test" in line 23 containing >> "index" >> > > Any non-function like syntax would allow stacking naturally as the result > of the expression after the 'in' would be evaluated first, so actions > further to left would evaluate on the substrings produced by those to the > right (of the 'in'). > > (Obviously function versions would stack to, but be nested rather than > left to right). > > This syntax would make it easy to do a more detailed match: >> >> line 4 matching "a*b" in y >> > > I've always quite liked the idea of: > > item 4 of y where it matches "a*b" > > Indeed, that makes me think that you are thinking interpretation (2) above > (please do correct me if I'm wrong). > > Actually, with a 'where' clause, Richard's itemAtOffset function would > become: > > the first item of y where it contains "a" > > In either case (where or containing) I'd be concerned that there is a lack > of clarity of what 'item N ...' means. > > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 17:05:23 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 14:05:23 -0700 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <535D0F4A-9387-4240-9AC6-1C75B49C2DED@tactilemedia.com> References: <535D0F4A-9387-4240-9AC6-1C75B49C2DED@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <56328A13.30504@fourthworld.com> In Trevor's demo it looked pretty straightforward. Sure, the data itself is no more readable to the human eye than rtfText or polygon points, but a simple copy-n-paste from an SVG XML file into the Inspector and bingo! SVG on screen. Assuming that wasn't either a dream or some proprietary thing Trevor has that no one else has seen, I would imagine if the Inspector (coded in LC as it is) can do it, any of our scripts can do it too. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Scott Rossi wrote: > SVG is LiveCode 8 widgets only. AFAIK, in 8 the current "built in" > vector graphic offering is characters from the FontAwesome font, > and while you and I might be comfortable copying points from SVG > files into LiveCode, I think you'd agree that's not exactly the best > user experience. :-) > >> On Oct 29, 2015, at 1:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> When Trevor DeVore presented at our local LiveCode User Group >> meeting a couple months ago, he showed us a Widget that allowed >> him to put SVG data into it as easily as we set points in a polygon. >> >> That seems very much like what you're looking for, and what Mark >> Talluto's looking for, and many others. >> >> Was I dreaming? >> >> I'd thought there was an SVGIcon Widget for that purpose, no? From david at viral.academy Thu Oct 29 17:39:15 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:39:15 +0000 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: <019e5583b54202983ae7f9bcf90b7bbc@livecode.com> <562FADD2.1020101@fourthworld.com> <562FC1E3.4040909@gmail.com> <8c563efe1ac8b9c35738e9d4e5a8b30f@livecode.com> Message-ID: Excellent news. Very interesting. I really like the strategy you are pursuing here. It's sharp, strategic and well judged. I understand the complaints of members of the community when they see so much time and money invested and they have less functionality available in some areas than the did a few years ago, but I feel they do not appreciate enough that the language was dying, and the community getting older. No one likes to admit this in public, but I know many of us saw this. To reverse this trend bold steps had to be taken. Open source was one. It happened severalyears too late in my opinion, and the company has been slow moving it's culture over, but I see real changes. Peter has been fantastic in this regard. But the vision you outline, is more than catching up, it is positioning the language smack bang in the middle of where it needs to be for it to thrive. Yes multimedia is needed now, and SVG is sorely missing. But I'd go for saving the language and each of our long term investments in this any day. Respect is due. I'm not grumbling (much :) PS - we need something like NPM as well :) On Thursday, 29 October 2015, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-10-29 00:38, David Bovill wrote: > >> From my point of view Open Language is the most important aspect of >> LiveCode. Without it on the timeline I would not be using LiveCode today. >> I'd be working purely in NodeJS I suspect. >> > > It is interesting that NodeJS and Open Language come up in the same post... > > As it stands, LiveCode and NodeJS actually have a lot in common. Indeed, > as long as you are careful about the syntax you use, and the operations you > perform, they 'work' in the same way. > > An event comes in, a message is dispatched to an appropriate object and > then that object does a small amount of work, if it needs to do anything > more heavy-weight it sets something in motion and ensures a callback is > sent when it is done. The key thing here is 'minimal amount of work' it > means that the approach is highly scalable in terms of concurrent requests > being processed as they can all be interleaved very very efficiently. > > In LiveCode, socket communication can be entirely callback-based in this > model, as can network operations. However, the things that are missing at > the moment are callback based variants of the database commands and other > such things which might cause 'long pauses' whilst they are performed. > (Really database operations and file operations need to be implemented in > an event-driven way - so you start one off, and then get a callback when > completed). > > Now, one thing that would make such NodeJS type operations be even easier > to use is if you *didn't* have to use callbacks. 'Straight line' code is > much much easier to write. e.g. > > on doMyStuff > put url "..." into tStuff > put revQueryDatabase(..., tStuff, ...) into tDbStuff > put encodeDbStuffForResult(tDbStuff) into tResult > return tResult > end doMyStuff > > Is a lot easier to read and maintain than: > > on doMyStuff > load url "..." with message doMyStuff1 > end doMyStuff > > on doMyStuff1 tStuff > revQueryDatabaseWithCallback ..., tStuff, ..., "doMyStuff2" > end doMyStuff1 > > on doMyStuff2 tDbStuff > encodeDbStuffForResultWithCallback tDbStuff, "doMyStuff3" > end doMyStuff2 > > on doMyStuff3 tResult > setResultOfRequest tResult > end doMyStuff3 > > (Note that here I'm imagining various things exist - > revQueryDatabaseWithCallback does not currently!) > > If one steps back, then essentially, the difference between the single > handler version, and the callback handler version is that each operation in > the single handler version is calling 'wait until ... with messages' (in > some form or another). The problem with how LiveCode currently works, > however, is the fact that script execution is heavily tied to the system > stack (this is the stack which allows nested procedure calls - not a visual > stack). This means that 'wait ... with messages' is recursive in LiveCode > at the moment and not 'side-by-side'. > > In the recursive model you have to use the callback-based approach because > otherwise a single request might get stalled due to having to wait for > another (unrelated) request to finish (as wait nests on the system stack - > so all subsequent requests have to resolve but the initial one can). > > Fixing the recursive model means that script execution has to be > completely divorced from the system stack - essentially meaning that the > engine can automatically turn the single handler model into a callback > based model without the scripter being any the wiser. > > How does this relate to Open Language? Well, one of the key pieces to > implement Open Language is abstracting the way script is executed in the > engine in LiveCode so that it no longer has any dependence on the system > stack - scripts will be compiled to bytecode which is then executed. This > extra level of abstraction gives a great many more choices about *how* > scripts are run, and as such opens the door to resolving the 'recursive > wait' problem. This will open the door to bringing a simplicity of > scripting with LiveCode to an environment where it perhaps wasn't quite so > suited to before. > > Now, of course, NodeJS does use the callback model (although the syntax of > JS actually means it is perhaps a little less onerous than LiveCode, at > least for one or two step processes) - so in terms of getting to parity > with NodeJS the principal thing needed is callback variants of all > operations which can block. However, given there are various things in the > works in NodeJS to enable 'single handler' type models it does suggest that > the callback model could be better. > > Like most things, whilst Open Language might be an end goal in and of > itself with all its benefits, the process of getting their open up a wealth > of other opportunities too due to the improvements in the underlying > technology that are made along the way. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tfabacher at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 18:21:32 2015 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 18:21:32 -0400 Subject: Vector images? Message-ID: I think the purpose of widgets is to add the functionality to an environment. Microsoft .NET does NOT have native SVG or does JAVA. They all use libraries or widgets to add the functionality to the platform. If SVG is important, lets create a widget and be done with it. I agree it is SUPER important, but it is NOT a core functionality. LiveCode needs to be expandable, so if there are a group of people who want this, we get together, raise the money and LiveCode or Monti or Trevor or whoever will create a fully functioning SVG plugin. If the community pays for it, it should be open to all. If not or only pays for part of it, then it will be for sale for $20. I think it is IMPORTANT that we as a community begin to understand that functionality is added by widgets and not to the code. If we need or want something, we pay, it gets moved to the top of the list and it gets done. I just paid $7000 to get 64Bit Mic version of LC. I will pay $2500 to get SVG started because it is important to me and the community. If LiveCode or someone else wants to make it happen you know where to find me!!! Also, Mark or Monti I am up for $5000 to get FASTCGI started. I think the huge hole in the LC platform is the cloud. And we can not create a good web server without FASTCGI. Ralf has done an FANTASTIC job with revIgniter, and it would put LC on the map if we could get a great server going. I have been reading about Open Language and all this extra stuff on this email chain. But the ONLY way LiveCode is going to thrive and survive is by getting a strong widget system going. That my friends is what businesses and programmers are looking for today. Without a full array of available 3rd party widgets, LC is dead to the "Young and Restless." Yes, they expect it and DEMAND it because today programers just assemble, they don't code. They are not given the time or the budget to get it done. --Todd Fabacher From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Oct 29 18:28:55 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:28:55 +0000 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: References: <5617F1ED.9020700@gmail.com> <1c06acb0bd6c2f1d0850c10e5865184f@livecode.com> <9e5f96aeea4287fa170f90160b5482e8@livecode.com> <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> Message-ID: <8512C818-77E8-44A1-8ADD-48F44C07518A@iotecdigital.com> I'd like to point out that Apple almost sunk it's own boat some years back by getting so spread out in so many directions, with so many models and lines of computers, that they weren't making a lot of progress in any particular direction. One of the main things (and first things) Steve Jobs did when he took over was to scrap a lot of the dead weight and focus on moving the company forward. The net effect is that he pulled Apple's one foot out of the grave. I'm all for new stuff, but not at the expense of losing focus. Bob S > On Oct 29, 2015, at 13:10 , Roland Huettmann wrote: > > Well, I completely agree with the statement that for clients presentation > layer must be state of art and give a convincing experience, and LC should > give full support for building it easily. > > I also see the big majority of applications needing this. > > And vector inage support is a pressing must in my eyes. > > Roland > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Oct 29 18:29:44 2015 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:29:44 +0000 Subject: iOS - adding to the Info.plist In-Reply-To: <9500DAB4-8CCD-49E2-AC13-840D44ED092F@sweattechnologies.com> References: <56324F8B.4050809@cogapp.com> <5632795D.4030006@hyperactivesw.com> <9500DAB4-8CCD-49E2-AC13-840D44ED092F@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <56329DD8.4020402@cogapp.com> On 29/10/2015 20:18, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 30 Oct 2015, at 6:54 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> Back in April, Monte submitted a pull request to allow us to provide a custom manifest for Android builds. I don't know whether that includes iOS pLists too, but if it doesn't maybe it could be added. >> >> We currently have the ability to include our own pList for OS X builds. Maybe the same thing could be done for iOS. > > Yes it does now as I went back and added it for iOS too. Copy the template plist from out of LC. Edit to your heart?s content. Name it Info.plist and add it to copy files. > > Cheers > > Monte Aha! Superb, thanks Monte. Is this documented anywhere, do you know? thanks, Ben From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 18:31:58 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 00:31:58 +0200 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <535D0F4A-9387-4240-9AC6-1C75B49C2DED@tactilemedia.com> References: <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> <5632804F.4030403@fourthworld.com> <535D0F4A-9387-4240-9AC6-1C75B49C2DED@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <56329E5E.5010704@gmail.com> On 29/10/15 22:35, Scott Rossi wrote: > SVG is LiveCode 8 widgets only. AFAIK, in 8 the current "built in" vector graphic offering is characters from the FontAwesome font, and while you and I might be comfortable copying points from SVG files into LiveCode, I think you'd agree that's not exactly the best user experience. :-) > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media UX/UI Design > > Copying points . . . cripes: where does one get at a vector image's points outwith LiveCode to copy them. And, on Linux at least, as copying stuff both to-and-from LiveCode is at least a two-step procedure [How I copy code from the scriptEditor into my email client and/or Firefox: copy text, paste into a text editor, copy from the text editor, paste into Thunderbird/Firefox] this is unbelievably labour intensive and, frankly, primitive. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just for fun" I downloaded this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Sample-image.svg opened it in Inkscape, and . . . wondered what to do then. Gosh, I haven't had as much fun as when I tried to buy a carpet from an Afghani in the souk in Jeddah with no Pashto, Farsi or Arabic. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quite honestly I feel that until one can import vector images just the same as one imports JPG and PNG images via the menu system things are not acceptable vis-a-vis vector images. It would also be nice, although that may be expecting too much, if the "export snapshot" could export snapshots from vector objects as vector images. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 18:35:22 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 00:35:22 +0200 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <56328A13.30504@fourthworld.com> References: <535D0F4A-9387-4240-9AC6-1C75B49C2DED@tactilemedia.com> <56328A13.30504@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56329F2A.6090906@gmail.com> On 29/10/15 23:05, Richard Gaskin wrote: > In Trevor's demo it looked pretty straightforward. Sure, the data > itself is no more readable to the human eye than rtfText or polygon > points, but a simple copy-n-paste from an SVG XML file into the > Inspector and bingo! SVG on screen. Bingo! Ehum . . . how does a "raw prawn" like me obtain the polygon points from an SVG. And, bye-ther-bye, what, forbye, is the difference midst an SVG file and an SVG XML file? > > Assuming that wasn't either a dream or some proprietary thing Trevor > has that no one else has seen, I would imagine if the Inspector (coded > in LC as it is) can do it, any of our scripts can do it too. > R. From alex at tweedly.net Thu Oct 29 19:25:10 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:25:10 +0000 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> <56257E3D.7040801@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <5632AAD6.6000806@tweedly.net> On 29/10/2015 14:41, Mike Kerner wrote: > Belay that. Let's do this on the list. > Sure ... > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > 1) In v3, why did you remove the substitution? That just bit me. > Short answer : A bug. Long answer : 2 bugs, but on the same line of code - so kind of just one bug really :-) Very Long Answer : I had a version (say, 2.9) which I tested properly. Then I added some more parameterization, and while doing that I thought "This line is wrong, it shouldn't be doing "replace TAB with ...", it should be using one of these new parameters". This was just plain wrong, so that's bug number 1. Then I later realized that there was no case where I would need to do the "replace" as written - so I commented out the line (also, wrong - that's bug number 2). Solution: I enclose below a new version, csvToTab4. Only change (in the card script) is that line 37 changed from -- replace pOldItemDelim with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar to replace TAB with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar And with that change it does (AFAIK) properly produce (or whatever you pass in as pNewTAB) for any embedded TAB chars. > 2) I'm not sure we should bore everyone else with the details on the > list, but I'd like to pick your brain about some of the details of > what you're thinking in various parts of this as I intend to do some > tweaking and commenting for future reference. Yeah, it would be great to improve the comments, and hopefully explain what it's doing. On 29/10/2015 15:01, Mike Kerner wrote: > So beyond the embedded , I found another issue. Let's say the string is > "test""" > > > The is not handled. Hmmm - in my testing it is, I give it ( last line is same as this example you give ) INPUT a,"b c" "cd" "e""" and get OUTPUT abc cd e" which I think is correct. Do you have a more complex test case, or do you get different results ? Can you send me thae case where you see the problem (off-list) ? Thanks. > Should you perhaps do your substitutions on the "inside", instead of on the > "passedQuote"? > Hmmm - tempting, but no. Firstly, it would need to do the replace in the current item both for status = 'inside' and 'passedquote' because if you have input like "one two""three""fourfive" the status goes from 'inside' to 'passedquote' to 'inside' to 'passedquote' to etc. and for the latter TAB character it is 'passedquote'. More generally, I want to do these substitutions in as few places as possible (i.e. so that I am passing the longest possible string to the engine to do a speedy 'replace'), so the best time to do that after 'passedquote'. New version function CSVToTab4 pData, pOldLineDelim, pOldItemDelim, pNewCR, pNewTAB -- fill in defaults if pOldLineDelim is empty then put CR into pOldLineDelim if pOldItemDelim is empty then put COMMA into pOldItemDelim if pNewCR is empty then put numtochar(11) into pNewCR -- Use for quoted CRs if pNewTAB is empty then put numtochar(29) into pNewTAB -- Use (group separator) for quoted TABs local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar -- Normalize line endings: REMOVED -- Will normaly be correct already, only binfile: or similar chould make this necessary -- and that exceptional case should be the caller's responsibility put "outside" into tStatus set the itemdel to quote repeat for each item k in pData -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg switch tStatus case "inside" put k after theInsideStringSoFar put "passedquote" into tStatus next repeat case "passedquote" -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing quote if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote put quote after theInsideStringSoFar put "inside" into tStatus next repeat end if -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have left the quoted section -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell content !! replace pOldLineDelim with pNewCR in theInsideStringSoFar replace TAB with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData case "outside" replace pOldItemDelim with TAB in k -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode replace (pNewTAB & pOldLineDelim) with pNewTAB & pNewTAB & CR in k put k after tNuData put "inside" into tStatus put empty into theInsideStringSoFar next repeat default put "defaulted" break end switch end repeat -- and finally deal with the trailing item isse in input data -- i.e. the very last char is a quote, so there is no trigger to flush the -- last item if the last char of pData = quote then put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData end if return tNuData end CSVToTab4 -- Alex. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Oct 29 19:51:07 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:51:07 +1100 Subject: iOS - adding to the Info.plist In-Reply-To: <56329DD8.4020402@cogapp.com> References: <56324F8B.4050809@cogapp.com> <5632795D.4030006@hyperactivesw.com> <9500DAB4-8CCD-49E2-AC13-840D44ED092F@sweattechnologies.com> <56329DD8.4020402@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <1A9A53B3-188C-44B2-98BF-FF6E98E0863F@sweattechnologies.com> > On 30 Oct 2015, at 9:29 am, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > Is this documented anywhere, do you know? Not that I?m aware of. It?s more of a user guide thing and at the moment those aren?t in the repo for contributors to edit. Well at least they weren?t (LC 8 has guides) but there?s currently no guide for deployment other than HTML. Cheers Monte From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Oct 29 20:07:47 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 20:07:47 -0400 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: <5632AAD6.6000806@tweedly.net> References: <56220EFB.9090206@tweedly.net> <004A0A07-8D5C-4F5D-8AF3-58E88ADF7973@gmail.com> <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> <56257E3D.7040801@tweedly.net> <5632AAD6.6000806@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Try using exactly the string I sent: "test""" I get test", when I think what you intend is test" On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > On 29/10/2015 14:41, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> Belay that. Let's do this on the list. >> >> Sure ... > >> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Mike Kerner > > wrote: >> >> 1) In v3, why did you remove the substitution? That just bit me. >> >> > Short answer : A bug. > Long answer : 2 bugs, but on the same line of code - so kind of just one > bug really :-) > Very Long Answer : > I had a version (say, 2.9) which I tested properly. Then I added some more > parameterization, and while doing that I thought "This line is wrong, it > shouldn't be doing "replace TAB with ...", it should be using one of these > new parameters". This was just plain wrong, so that's bug number 1. > > Then I later realized that there was no case where I would need to do the > "replace" as written - so I commented out the line (also, wrong - that's > bug number 2). > > > Solution: > I enclose below a new version, csvToTab4. Only change (in the card script) > is that line 37 changed from > -- replace pOldItemDelim with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar > to > replace TAB with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar > > And with that change it does (AFAIK) properly produce (or whatever > you pass in as pNewTAB) for any embedded TAB chars. > > 2) I'm not sure we should bore everyone else with the details on the list, >> but I'd like to pick your brain about some of the details of what you're >> thinking in various parts of this as I intend to do some tweaking and >> commenting for future reference. >> > Yeah, it would be great to improve the comments, and hopefully explain > what it's doing. > > On 29/10/2015 15:01, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> So beyond the embedded , I found another issue. Let's say the string >> is >> "test""" >> >> >> The is not handled. >> > Hmmm - in my testing it is, I give it ( last line is same as this example > you give ) > > INPUT > > a,"b > c" > "cd" > "e""" > > and get OUTPUT > abc > cd > e" > > which I think is correct. Do you have a more complex test case, or do you > get different results ? Can you send me thae case where you see the problem > (off-list) ? Thanks. > > Should you perhaps do your substitutions on the "inside", instead of on the >> "passedQuote"? >> >> Hmmm - tempting, but no. > > Firstly, it would need to do the replace in the current item both for > status = 'inside' and 'passedquote' because if you have input like > "one two""three""fourfive" > the status goes from 'inside' to 'passedquote' to 'inside' to > 'passedquote' to etc. and for the latter TAB character it is 'passedquote'. > > More generally, I want to do these substitutions in as few places as > possible (i.e. so that I am passing the longest possible string to the > engine to do a speedy 'replace'), so the best time to do that after > 'passedquote'. > > New version > function CSVToTab4 pData, pOldLineDelim, pOldItemDelim, pNewCR, pNewTAB > -- fill in defaults > if pOldLineDelim is empty then put CR into pOldLineDelim > if pOldItemDelim is empty then put COMMA into pOldItemDelim > if pNewCR is empty then put numtochar(11) into pNewCR -- Use for > quoted CRs > if pNewTAB is empty then put numtochar(29) into pNewTAB -- Use > (group separator) for quoted TABs > > local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data > > local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar > > -- Normalize line endings: REMOVED > -- Will normaly be correct already, only binfile: or similar chould > make this necessary > -- and that exceptional case should be the caller's responsibility > > put "outside" into tStatus > set the itemdel to quote > repeat for each item k in pData > -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg > switch tStatus > > case "inside" > put k after theInsideStringSoFar > put "passedquote" into tStatus > next repeat > > case "passedquote" > -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing > quote > if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote > put quote after theInsideStringSoFar > put "inside" into tStatus > next repeat > end if > -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have > left the quoted section > -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell > content !! > replace pOldLineDelim with pNewCR in theInsideStringSoFar > replace TAB with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar > put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData > > case "outside" > replace pOldItemDelim with TAB in k > -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode > replace (pNewTAB & pOldLineDelim) with pNewTAB & pNewTAB & CR > in k > put k after tNuData > put "inside" into tStatus > put empty into theInsideStringSoFar > next repeat > default > put "defaulted" > break > end switch > end repeat > > -- and finally deal with the trailing item isse in input data > -- i.e. the very last char is a quote, so there is no trigger to flush > the > -- last item > if the last char of pData = quote then > put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData > end if > > return tNuData > end CSVToTab4 > > -- Alex. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Oct 29 20:02:30 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:02:30 -0700 Subject: Why won't this work. Message-ID: Folks, I tried Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid Put "my email" into tlongid This does not work. It works if I copy the long id and paste the second line in the message box. Seems this should work. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 29 20:26:57 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:26:57 -0700 Subject: Why won't this work. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try: set the text of tlongid to "my email" Otherwise, you're just putting a value into your tlongid variable, the same way you did with the long id of the field. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > On Oct 29, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Earthednet-wp wrote: > > Folks, > > I tried > Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid > Put "my email" into tlongid > > This does not work. > > It works if I copy the long id and paste the second line in the message box. > Seems this should work. > > Bill > > William Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Thu Oct 29 20:50:31 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 00:50:31 +0000 Subject: CSV again. In-Reply-To: References: <5622EC1D.7030907@tweedly.net> <9DCC71EF-36FB-4DF4-A2BE-377390283952@gmail.com> <74661DC6-4742-4035-84AE-96AD94E702A5@gmail.com> <5624340C.7010704@tweedly.net> <56257E3D.7040801@tweedly.net> <5632AAD6.6000806@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <5632BED7.7000704@tweedly.net> I did. And I get test" as expected. I'm obviously missing something here - but let's go off-list until we figure it out .... Here's my test script on mouseUp local tmp, t1 put quote & "test" & CR & quote & quote & quote &CR into tmp put csvToTab3(tmp) into t1 put t1 & CR after msg repeat for each char x in t1 put chartonum(x) & ":" & X & CR after msg end repeat replace numtochar(29) with "" in t1 replace numtochar(11) with "" in t1 replace TAB with "" in t1 put "[" & t1 & "]" & CR & CR after msg end mouseUp and my output is test " 116:t 101:e 115:s 116:t 11: 34:" 10: [test" ] Do you get different ? Can you please send me the output ? Thanks -- Alex. On 30/10/2015 00:07, Mike Kerner wrote: > Try using exactly the string I sent: "test""" > > I get test", when I think what you intend is test" > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> On 29/10/2015 14:41, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> Belay that. Let's do this on the list. >>> >>> Sure ... >>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Mike Kerner >> > wrote: >>> >>> 1) In v3, why did you remove the substitution? That just bit me. >>> >>> >> Short answer : A bug. >> Long answer : 2 bugs, but on the same line of code - so kind of just one >> bug really :-) >> Very Long Answer : >> I had a version (say, 2.9) which I tested properly. Then I added some more >> parameterization, and while doing that I thought "This line is wrong, it >> shouldn't be doing "replace TAB with ...", it should be using one of these >> new parameters". This was just plain wrong, so that's bug number 1. >> >> Then I later realized that there was no case where I would need to do the >> "replace" as written - so I commented out the line (also, wrong - that's >> bug number 2). >> >> >> Solution: >> I enclose below a new version, csvToTab4. Only change (in the card script) >> is that line 37 changed from >> -- replace pOldItemDelim with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar >> to >> replace TAB with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar >> >> And with that change it does (AFAIK) properly produce (or whatever >> you pass in as pNewTAB) for any embedded TAB chars. >> >> 2) I'm not sure we should bore everyone else with the details on the list, >>> but I'd like to pick your brain about some of the details of what you're >>> thinking in various parts of this as I intend to do some tweaking and >>> commenting for future reference. >>> >> Yeah, it would be great to improve the comments, and hopefully explain >> what it's doing. >> >> On 29/10/2015 15:01, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> So beyond the embedded , I found another issue. Let's say the string >>> is >>> "test""" >>> >>> >>> The is not handled. >>> >> Hmmm - in my testing it is, I give it ( last line is same as this example >> you give ) >> >> INPUT >> >> a,"b >> c" >> "cd" >> "e""" >> >> and get OUTPUT >> abc >> cd >> e" >> >> which I think is correct. Do you have a more complex test case, or do you >> get different results ? Can you send me thae case where you see the problem >> (off-list) ? Thanks. >> >> Should you perhaps do your substitutions on the "inside", instead of on the >>> "passedQuote"? >>> >>> Hmmm - tempting, but no. >> Firstly, it would need to do the replace in the current item both for >> status = 'inside' and 'passedquote' because if you have input like >> "one two""three""fourfive" >> the status goes from 'inside' to 'passedquote' to 'inside' to >> 'passedquote' to etc. and for the latter TAB character it is 'passedquote'. >> >> More generally, I want to do these substitutions in as few places as >> possible (i.e. so that I am passing the longest possible string to the >> engine to do a speedy 'replace'), so the best time to do that after >> 'passedquote'. >> >> New version >> function CSVToTab4 pData, pOldLineDelim, pOldItemDelim, pNewCR, pNewTAB >> -- fill in defaults >> if pOldLineDelim is empty then put CR into pOldLineDelim >> if pOldItemDelim is empty then put COMMA into pOldItemDelim >> if pNewCR is empty then put numtochar(11) into pNewCR -- Use for >> quoted CRs >> if pNewTAB is empty then put numtochar(29) into pNewTAB -- Use >> (group separator) for quoted TABs >> >> local tNuData -- contains tabbed copy of data >> >> local tStatus, theInsideStringSoFar >> >> -- Normalize line endings: REMOVED >> -- Will normaly be correct already, only binfile: or similar chould >> make this necessary >> -- and that exceptional case should be the caller's responsibility >> >> put "outside" into tStatus >> set the itemdel to quote >> repeat for each item k in pData >> -- put tStatus && k & CR after msg >> switch tStatus >> >> case "inside" >> put k after theInsideStringSoFar >> put "passedquote" into tStatus >> next repeat >> >> case "passedquote" >> -- decide if it was a duplicated escapedQuote or a closing >> quote >> if k is empty then -- it's a duplicated quote >> put quote after theInsideStringSoFar >> put "inside" into tStatus >> next repeat >> end if >> -- not empty - so we remain inside the cell, though we have >> left the quoted section >> -- NB this allows for quoted sub-strings within the cell >> content !! >> replace pOldLineDelim with pNewCR in theInsideStringSoFar >> replace TAB with pNewTAB in theInsideStringSoFar >> put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData >> >> case "outside" >> replace pOldItemDelim with TAB in k >> -- and deal with the "empty trailing item" issue in Livecode >> replace (pNewTAB & pOldLineDelim) with pNewTAB & pNewTAB & CR >> in k >> put k after tNuData >> put "inside" into tStatus >> put empty into theInsideStringSoFar >> next repeat >> default >> put "defaulted" >> break >> end switch >> end repeat >> >> -- and finally deal with the trailing item isse in input data >> -- i.e. the very last char is a quote, so there is no trigger to flush >> the >> -- last item >> if the last char of pData = quote then >> put theInsideStringSoFar after tNuData >> end if >> >> return tNuData >> end CSVToTab4 >> >> -- Alex. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 22:07:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:07:53 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5632D0F9.20300@fourthworld.com> David Bovill wrote: > PS - we need something like NPM as well :) I believe the package manager for LC extensions is coming along well. The harder part will be matching NPM's 200,026 modules. And since they had only 50,000 just last year, at that rate it'll be tough to catch up. I've enjoyed my experiments with socket servers in LC, but as I look down the road for robust scalable systems I have to admit Node looks pretty good. Are there gotchas with Node I should consider? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 29 22:16:07 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:16:07 -0500 Subject: iOS - adding to the Info.plist In-Reply-To: <9500DAB4-8CCD-49E2-AC13-840D44ED092F@sweattechnologies.com> References: <56324F8B.4050809@cogapp.com> <5632795D.4030006@hyperactivesw.com> <9500DAB4-8CCD-49E2-AC13-840D44ED092F@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5632D2E7.9000701@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/29/2015 3:18 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >>> On 30 Oct 2015, at 6:54 am, J. Landman >>> Gay wrote: >>> >>> Back in April, Monte submitted a pull request to allow us to >>> provide a custom manifest for Android builds. I don't know >>> whether that includes iOS pLists too, but if it doesn't maybe it >>> could be added. >>> >>> We currently have the ability to include our own pList for OS X >>> builds. Maybe the same thing could be done for iOS. > Yes it does now as I went back and added it for iOS too. Copy the > template plist from out of LC. Edit to your heart?s content. Name it > Info.plist and add it to copy files. Whadda guy. We're lucky. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Thu Oct 29 22:34:02 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:34:02 -1000 Subject: Vector images? In-Reply-To: <5632804F.4030403@fourthworld.com> References: <5632791E.9030903@hindu.org> <5632804F.4030403@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5632D71A.1080705@hindu.org> cmd-shift-> import Vector This is what Richmond is talking about.. it has to be that simple. BR Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Was I dreaming? > > I'd thought there was an SVGIcon Widget for that purpose, no? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 22:37:31 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:37:31 -0700 Subject: Chromebook deployment... Message-ID: <5632D7EB.1060400@fourthworld.com> ....coming to the Android pane of the LC Standalone Builder in 2017: Google is merging Chrome OS and Android ...Chrome is essentially being folded into Android, because Android has emerged as the dominant operating system by quite a long stretch. Combining the two operating systems means setting up Android to run on laptops and desktop computers, which would require big changes, as well as supporting the Google Play Store. Chromebooks will reportedly receive a new name to reflect the new OS. ... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 22:37:43 2015 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:37:43 -0400 Subject: Vector images? Message-ID: Hi All, Many Thanks for sending your SVGs files. Every Design or Drawing application have their own idea about the best structure for their own SVG files. Now, I testing many ideas to simplify or remove all Transforms (Scale, Matrix, etc) in SVG: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13329125/removing-transforms-in-svg-files Until I found a way to convert every kind of svg into a simple and uniform structure, I will create a parser for Inkscape files... Right now, I am testing a method to apply the viewbox transformation to svg files imported using the original SVGL The viewbox attribute looks like this: viewBox="0 0 744.09 1052.4" Check for yourself what happens when you import a svg that uses the viewbox attribute. Download SVGL: livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL Download this SVG file: https://openclipart.org/detail/3859/italian-coffee-maker Import this svg using SVGL. Notice that does not works. After I fix this, will continue working with the Inkscape files. Al From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 23:27:07 2015 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:27:07 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? Message-ID: Hi All, I remember one of the premises of implementing Open Language. "Open Language: With the core refactoring almost complete (LiveCode 7.0) we?ve started to turn our attention to the final aspect of this project which is to open up the language for extension by anyone." Then, using Open Language, Could we create a translation of all Livecode Keywords, Scripts and API to any Unicode Language on Earth? Instead of English, Could we use any language that provides an equivalent translation pair of words? If this is possible, then different Universities all around the world could provide translations and test in detail if a programming language in their own tongue could help students and professional developers to learn computer programming. Just wondering... Al From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Oct 29 23:29:26 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:29:26 -0400 Subject: Why won't this work. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <150b6caf954-6212-ae9a@webprd-a27.mail.aol.com> Hi. I do not understand. This is simple and straightforward. Both peices of data go into the variable just fine. Craig Newman Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid Put "my email" into tlongid -----Original Message----- From: Earthednet-wp To: Use-livecode Use-livecode Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2015 8:20 pm Subject: Why won't this work. Folks, I tried Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid Put "my email" into tlongid This does not work. It works if I copy the long id and paste the second line in the message box. Seems this should work. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Oct 29 23:34:52 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 20:34:52 -0700 Subject: What is "Open Language"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5632E55C.8040902@fourthworld.com> Alejandro Tejada wrote: > I remember one of the premises of > implementing Open Language. > > "Open Language: With the core refactoring almost > complete (LiveCode 7.0) we?ve started to turn our > attention to the final aspect of this project > which is to open up the language for extension > by anyone." > > Then, using Open Language, > Could we create a translation of all Livecode > Keywords, Scripts and API to any > Unicode Language on Earth? > > Instead of English, Could we use any > language that provides an equivalent > translation pair of words? > > If this is possible, then different Universities > all around the world could provide translations > and test in detail if a programming language > in their own tongue could help students and > professional developers to learn > computer programming. Maybe LiveCode can grow the most by moving beyond "English-like" to embrace "Mandarin-like". :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 23:40:24 2015 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:40:24 -0400 Subject: Chromebook deployment... Message-ID: I have mixed feelings about this news... An opportunity or a problem? http://workplacepsychology.net/2014/08/10/in-chinese-crisis-does-not-mean-danger-and-opportunity/ Al From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Oct 29 23:44:48 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 20:44:48 -0700 Subject: Why won't this work. In-Reply-To: <150b6caf954-6212-ae9a@webprd-a27.mail.aol.com> References: <150b6caf954-6212-ae9a@webprd-a27.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <7D61404A-4340-4A18-A821-E400B551B10F@tactilemedia.com> The assumption is Bill is trying to put the string "my email" into the target field. Of course, the assumption could be wrong. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Oct 29, 2015, at 8:29 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > Hi. > > > I do not understand. This is simple and straightforward. Both peices of data go into the variable just fine. > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid > Put > "my email" into tlongid > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Earthednet-wp > To: Use-livecode Use-livecode > Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2015 8:20 pm > Subject: Why won't this work. > > > Folks, > > I tried > Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid > Put > "my email" into tlongid > > This does not work. > > It works if I copy the long id > and paste the second line in the message box. > Seems this should > work. > > Bill > > William > Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode > mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, > unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Oct 29 23:50:49 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:50:49 -0500 Subject: Why won't this work. In-Reply-To: <150b6caf954-6212-ae9a@webprd-a27.mail.aol.com> References: <150b6caf954-6212-ae9a@webprd-a27.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <5632E919.2000801@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/29/2015 10:29 PM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > I do not understand. This is simple and straightforward. Both peices of data go into the variable just fine. > > Craig Newman > > Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid > Put > "my email" into tlongid I had to read it four times and then see Scott's reply before it made any sense to me either. What Bill wants to do is: get a field reference put his email address into that field I like Scott's method best, but a less elegant way would be: do "put" &"e& "my email" "e&& "into" && tlongid -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Oct 30 00:01:42 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:01:42 -0700 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <5632D7EB.1060400@fourthworld.com> References: <5632D7EB.1060400@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5632EBA6.2020103@ahsoftware.net> On 10/29/2015 07:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > ....coming to the Android pane of the LC Standalone Builder in 2017: > > > Google is merging Chrome OS and Android > > ...Chrome is essentially being folded into Android, > because Android has emerged as the dominant operating > system by quite a long stretch. Combining the two > operating systems means setting up Android to run on > laptops and desktop computers, which would require > big changes, as well as supporting the Google Play > Store. Chromebooks will reportedly receive a new name > to reflect the new OS. > ... > Translation: Hey... nobody's buying these things... what should we do? Let's make them big cellphone gadgets, minus the phone part. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Oct 30 00:25:53 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:25:53 -0700 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <3DD9D7D0-F7D1-4A65-B164-E446E2B09369@canelasoftware.com> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> <3DD9D7D0-F7D1-4A65-B164-E446E2B09369@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <5632F151.5050105@ahsoftware.net> On 10/26/2015 09:11 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: > I used to use this script editor full time back in the day. It is really nice to see that you are keeping it going Mark. Thought I might give it a try again and see how it goes. > > I am getting an answer dialog with what appears to be executionContext values after almost every action I do. I am using GLX_Code19 beta.rev, date: 2015-10-21. > Using with LC 6.6.5 on Mac 10.10.5. > > Any ideas? 6.6.5? Really? That was so buggy I uninstalled it right after installation. So... no, sorry, I'm not going to try to figure out what's going on there and backfill it to try to work around the LC problems. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 00:26:06 2015 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 00:26:06 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Richard Gaskin wrote: > Maybe LiveCode can grow the most > by moving beyond "English-like" to > embrace "Mandarin-like". :) Actually, I suggest to contact first different universities and ask if they are interested to help. If my memory serves well, Apple published HyperCard in different languages. There was a French HyperCard version... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 00:27:23 2015 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 00:27:23 -0400 Subject: What is "Open Language"? Message-ID: Richard Gaskin wrote: > Maybe LiveCode can grow the most > by moving beyond "English-like" to > embrace "Mandarin-like". :) Actually, I suggest to contact first different universities and ask if they are interested to help. If my memory serves well, Apple published HyperCard in different languages. There was a French HyperCard version... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Oct 30 00:46:41 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:46:41 -0700 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5632F631.3020606@ahsoftware.net> On 10/26/2015 08:13 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > A few notes about GLX2. There are no red dot breakpoints in GLX2 (unless I am missing something). If you have PowerDebug installed you can right-click on a line to toggle a soft breakpoint there. The way the IDE's script editor stores breakpoints is so weird and fragile and error-prone that I'm not really motivated to support that mechanism. Maybe once the team pays some attention to fixing it. > So you might be tempted to turn on and off GLX2 as needed. Problem is, GLX2 has it's own versioning system that allows you to go back x compiles to a prior version. The built-in compiler does not know about this, so switching from GLX2 back to the built-in debugger has a surprise for you. It will load a prior version of your script without all the changes you may have recently made. You're mixing a couple of different metaphors here. Yes, glx2 has archiving. It can be configured and enabled or disabled from the preferences panel. But that's completely separate from the issue of external editor notifications. When glx2 compiles a script it computes an md5digest of the script and stores it as a custom property of the object being edited. If the stored md5digest then doesn't compare with a computed md5digest when the object's script is loaded, you'll see the message about some other editor having done something. But you raise an interesting point...the md5digest is computed when a script is loaded... if it's still in memory then there's no indication that glx2 needs to refresh the script. That's something to ponder if you're switching back and forth between editors. > Other than that, I like it a lot, especially the clarvoyance feature which presents a popup of similar matches after typing x characters. That is mainly what I use it for, along with the breadcrumbs feature which adds a link to where you were when you clicked a handler to go to that handler. Yeah, those are my favorite features as well. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 30 01:07:09 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:07:09 -0700 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <5632EBA6.2020103@ahsoftware.net> References: <5632EBA6.2020103@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5632FAFD.5030609@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/29/2015 07:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> ....coming to the Android pane of the LC Standalone Builder in 2017: >> >> Google is merging Chrome OS and Android >> >> ...Chrome is essentially being folded into Android, >> because Android has emerged as the dominant operating >> system by quite a long stretch. Combining the two >> operating systems means setting up Android to run on >> laptops and desktop computers, which would require >> big changes, as well as supporting the Google Play >> Store. Chromebooks will reportedly receive a new name >> to reflect the new OS. >> ... >> > > Translation: > Hey... nobody's buying these things... what should we do? > Let's make them big cellphone gadgets, minus the phone part. Au contraire, mon ami, Chromebooks are pretty popular: NPD: Chromebooks outsell Windows laptops For businesses, tablets are on the decline and laptops are rising once again. And Chromebooks aren't just for consumers looking for cheap laptops. But fast as they're selling, Android sells even more - this article goes into more of the backstory behind the decision: Why Google Tapped Android Over Chrome as Its Marquee OS It's good news for us. Chromebooks were out of reach for LiveCoders, except for maybe with the HTML5 option when it's shipping. But now with this we'll be able to make native apps for all Android device types from phones to tablets to laptops. I just wish Apple would hurry up and announce the merger of OS X and iOS.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 01:12:49 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 01:12:49 -0400 Subject: Why won't this work. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To describe the other aspect of this, you can only use a variable containing a long id as a reference to the underlying object if you reference properties of the object. Hence why put the long id of fld "test" into tID set the left of tID to 47 set the vis of tID to true set the dontwrap of tiD to false set the htmlText of tID to "something" set the text of tID to "something else" all work, but put "some text" into tID will just change the contents of the variable. I have vague memories of some exceptions to this, but it was a long time ago, so maybe I'm wrong, or LC has addressed the issues. gc On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 8:26 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Try: set the text of tlongid to "my email" > > Otherwise, you're just putting a value into your tlongid variable, the > same way you did with the long id of the field. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > On Oct 29, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Earthednet-wp > wrote: > > > > Folks, > > > > I tried > > Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid > > Put "my email" into tlongid > > > > This does not work. > > > > It works if I copy the long id and paste the second line in the message > box. > > Seems this should work. > > > > Bill > > > > William Prothero > > http://es.earthednet.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Oct 30 01:21:02 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:21:02 -0700 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <5632FAFD.5030609@fourthworld.com> References: <5632EBA6.2020103@ahsoftware.net> <5632FAFD.5030609@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5632FE3E.2040406@ahsoftware.net> On 10/29/2015 10:07 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > It's good news for us. Chromebooks were out of reach for LiveCoders, > except for maybe with the HTML5 option when it's shipping. But now with > this we'll be able to make native apps for all Android device types from > phones to tablets to laptops. It's not just Livecoders... the Chrome OS market was always too small for developers to take much interest in. > I just wish Apple would hurry up and announce the merger of OS X and > iOS.... LOL. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Oct 30 01:50:01 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:50:01 -0700 Subject: Why won't this work? References: Message-ID: <7A989E77-2081-4AE0-B744-173B3B392E51@earthednet.org> Folks, I've had to forward this to my iPad to send it. I had to update my ssl certificate and it buggered the email from my server and I can't send from my Mac laptop, but I can from my iPad. Go figure! Thanks for your feedback, here is what I found out: > The long ID of a field looks something like this. I haven?t saved the stack yet, so there is no filename. > > field id 1006 of card id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1? > > I can do: > put ?myEmail? into field ?email? and it works fine and to me, serves as a model for syntax variations. > > I can copy that long id to the message box and do: > > put "my email" into field id 1006 of card id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1? and it works. > > I can do, but it doesn?t work: > > put the long id of fld "email" into tLongID > put quote&tLongID"e into tx > put "myEmail" into tx > > This works: (thanks, Jacqueline) > put the long id of fld "email" into tLongID > do "put" &"e& "my email" "e&& "into" && tlongid > > So, this may be obvious to experienced livecoders, but it is bizarre to those less experienced, like me. I'm not complaining, mind you, but there are many such non-intuitive operations in livecode. That's ok, but sometimes the effort to make livecode natural language-like creates new confusions. I also get confused about whether to call something an object, a control, a key, an item (ok, items are obvious), and I only point this out because sometimes information about what hangs up beginners is very useful when creating documentation. > > Best, > Bill > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 02:10:22 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 02:10:22 -0400 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <5632FAFD.5030609@fourthworld.com> References: <5632EBA6.2020103@ahsoftware.net> <5632FAFD.5030609@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 1:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I just wish Apple would hurry up and announce the merger of OS X and > iOS.... > Puttin' on my holy war pants... I hope they never do this. I've seen what Windows 10 looks like on a tablet, and (to my eye) it's a usability mess. Touch and trackpad/mouse are too far apart to share a UI. From frans at knowlegistics.com Fri Oct 30 05:35:42 2015 From: frans at knowlegistics.com (Frans Schoffelen) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:35:42 +0100 Subject: SGV and FE funding of widgets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <427D263F-6CCC-465F-84D5-98A8680AF40B@knowlegistics.com> > On 30 Oct 2015, at 04:50, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > I just paid $7000 to get 64Bit Mic version of LC. I will pay $2500 to get > SVG started because it is important to me and the community. If LiveCode or > someone else wants to make it happen you know where to find me!!! Todd, you mentioned you?d be willing to get the ball rolling on SVG. I presume you mean a full fledged SVG widget with colours and multiple paths? If so I?d be interested too since the scaling of groups in LiveCode and the loss of quality drives me nuts ( and is very processor intensive!) with a project I?m trying to redo for iOS without using a folder of 900 (!) images for all kinds of layouts and sizes. I glanced at the Feature Exchange and realised I do not know how to start a Feature Exchange Item . Did I miss something in the lengthy emails ? Probably. I would advance both Sprites/ Animation and SVG full colour/multipath. So how do we get started? Best to all from Berlin Frans From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 05:38:00 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 17:38:00 +0800 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <5632F151.5050105@ahsoftware.net> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> <3DD9D7D0-F7D1-4A65-B164-E446E2B09369@canelasoftware.com> <5632F151.5050105@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > 6.6.5? Really? > That was so buggy I uninstalled it right after installation. > Hhmmm, interesting. 6.6.5 is rock solid for me on OS X 10.4.x, 10.5.x and 10.9.x. In the case of Tiger and Leo that's even on some old PPC machines. Most new stuff I do in LC7, anything quick and dirty I'm using LC8 more and more, but my biggest project is well and truly 6.6.5. I'm going to upgrade it to LC7 tomorrow but thankfully tomorrow never comes ;-) The code dates back to HC, when I knew nothing, and then progressed through the time that I thought I knew something; which was really dangerous! Most people's pride and joy is the result of a bottle of wine and good cheese; my 'baby' is a cat skinning exercise gone horribly wrong. Honestly the 'thing' is a Frankenstein of code and parts* that has been hobbled together as I've convinced myself that I know what I'm doing. Realistically it shouldn't work - the fact it does is a testament to xTalk and the genius of Bill Atkinson and those who've carried on that vision. Very grateful to the LC Team for making 6.6.5 for those of us with working antiques. NOT suggesting that you have to do the same :-) GLX2 is open source right, so people are free to fix it to meet their requirements. * It started out as single Stack, multi-Card format and worked on files that I downloaded and preprocessed using various other programs. It then morphed into a front-end to a mySQL DB with a single Card Main Stack and multiple single Card Sub-Stacks adding AppleScript and Shell to auto include the preprocessing and now it talks... to the Internet directly. From frans at knowlegistics.com Fri Oct 30 05:56:37 2015 From: frans at knowlegistics.com (Frans Schoffelen) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:56:37 +0100 Subject: Vector Images and the SVGL stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <06E6B79A-D913-4542-890A-A230D49FFD22@knowlegistics.com> > On 30 Oct 2015, at 04:50, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > > Download SVGL: > livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL > Download this SVG file: > https://openclipart.org/detail/3859/italian-coffee-maker > > Import this svg using SVGL. Notice that > does not works. Hi Alejandro, I?ve been using the SVGL stack for a while now but the heart of the matter is that its output is still polygon objects in a group ( which you have to ungroup, ungroup a couple of times in LiveCode , then regroup as one group for scaling to work) and I can scale this group. However: I can?t copy the code into SVGL icon as of yet because it contains as you state Transforms but also it is not one compound path ( with black stroke) but multiple paths ( or multiple objects as CS6 calls it in Illustrator) Somehow I have the feeling that most of the code for the SVGL transform is already there if only we could have a recipe to save our SVGL?s in ONE standard format that an adapted version of the SVGL icon importer from Trevor can recognise. Basically : Colour and multiple paths. Nothing else. I know too little Illustrator and LiveCode Builder (as of yet) to actively recognise what goes wrong. But would be willing to help. Best from Berlin Frans From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Oct 30 06:33:11 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 03:33:11 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) Message-ID: Hi All: I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them into a blog which you might find interesting. http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this medium, and will post new articles here when available. Happy Friday. Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From neil at livecode.com Fri Oct 30 06:40:33 2015 From: neil at livecode.com (Neil Roger) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:40:33 +0000 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56334921.2070101@livecode.com> Amazing stuff Scott :) Going straight in my favourites! LiveCode Technical Support Lead neil at livecode.com LiveCode +44 (0) 845 219 8923. 25A Thistle Street Lane South West, Edinburgh, EH2 1EW http://www.livecode.com Facebook Twitter Youtube Linkedin On 30/10/2015 10:33, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi All: > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > into a blog which you might find interesting. http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > Happy Friday. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From skiplondon at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 06:47:32 2015 From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 06:47:32 -0400 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: <56334921.2070101@livecode.com> References: <56334921.2070101@livecode.com> Message-ID: <05857452-C9C4-4AD6-8AAA-71346E083490@gmail.com> +1 > On Oct 30, 2015, at 6:40 AM, Neil Roger wrote: > > Amazing stuff Scott :) Going straight in my favourites! > > > > > LiveCode Technical Support Lead > neil at livecode.com > > LiveCode > +44 (0) 845 219 8923. > 25A Thistle Street Lane South West, Edinburgh, EH2 1EW > http://www.livecode.com > > Facebook Twitter Youtube Linkedin > > >> On 30/10/2015 10:33, Scott Rossi wrote: >> Hi All: >> >> I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them >> into a blog which you might find interesting. http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ >> >> My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this >> medium, and will post new articles here when available. >> >> Happy Friday. >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 07:00:57 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 19:00:57 +0800 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1ABAC9B2-EA86-4F2B-9114-7B662BDB87C2@gmail.com> Scott That is breathtaking. Thank you for sharing these wonderful insights. Regards Peter > On 30 Oct 2015, at 18:33, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Hi All: > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > into a blog which you might find interesting. http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > Happy Friday. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From frans at knowlegistics.com Fri Oct 30 05:57:09 2015 From: frans at knowlegistics.com (Frans Schoffelen) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:57:09 +0100 Subject: Vector Images and the SVGL stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 30 Oct 2015, at 04:50, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > > Download SVGL: > livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/112/SVGL > Download this SVG file: > https://openclipart.org/detail/3859/italian-coffee-maker > > Import this svg using SVGL. Notice that > does not works. Hi Alejandro, I?ve been using the SVGL stack for a while now but the heart of the matter is that its output is still polygon objects in a group ( which you have to ungroup, ungroup a couple of times in LiveCode , then regroup as one group for scaling to work) and I can scale this group. However: I can?t copy the code into SVGL icon as of yet because it contains as you state Transforms but also it is not one compound path ( with black stroke) but multiple paths ( or multiple objects as CS6 calls it in Illustrator) Somehow I have the feeling that most of the code for the SVGL transform is already there if only we could have a recipe to save our SVGL?s in ONE standard format that an adapted version of the SVGL icon importer from Trevor can recognise. Basically : Colour and multiple paths. Nothing else. I know too little Illustrator and LiveCode Builder (as of yet) to actively recognise what goes wrong. But would be willing to help. Best from Berlin Frans From mark at livecode.com Fri Oct 30 07:31:31 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:31:31 +0100 Subject: SGV and FE funding of widgets In-Reply-To: <427D263F-6CCC-465F-84D5-98A8680AF40B@knowlegistics.com> References: <427D263F-6CCC-465F-84D5-98A8680AF40B@knowlegistics.com> Message-ID: <96f2383be418d2d392bda104f96c7cd7@livecode.com> On 2015-10-30 10:35, Frans Schoffelen wrote: > So how do we get started? Well, on the SVG front things have already started: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3089 This still needs a bit more work (we're hoping to have it ready for LiveCode 8 DP9) but currently does the following: - Adds the ability for the engine to render SVG as part of its libgraphics library (internal, low-level) - Wraps this facility with canvas syntax which widgets can use - Adds an SVGView widget which displays an svg file which has been set on it using an 'svgText' property At the moment the SVG parser / renderer can cope with multiple transformed paths and shapes in solid colors with opacity (gradients are being irksome - there's something up with the transforms which I haven't gotten quite right yet). We're also looking into allowing an image object to have its text set to SVG, or its filename set to reference an SVG file. If we can make this work then it means SVG will be usable (via the image object) as icons in buttons and imageSrc references in fields (as well as patterns!). Additionally, we'll investigate adding properties to the image object to indicate that the SVG should be pre-rendered as an image automatically. The reality is that compositing a pre-rendered image is a *lot* faster than rendering anything but exceptionally simple SVG - so providing a mode where pre-rendering occurs means that SVG used in images will have very similar performance characteristics to non-SVG images (after the initial rendering step). The goal here is that you can replace stacks of multi-resolution images with a single SVG file with hopefully only a small cost to pay on app startup. Another thing we could potentially do is add a 'path' property to the graphic object which would take and return a (normalized) SVG path - I'm still poking around to see what it would take to do this. Obviously we will be replacing the graphic object with a new 'shape' object at some point, however it seems sensible to try and see if we can at least add the 'path' related facilities planned for it to the engine sooner. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 07:51:39 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 19:51:39 +0800 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <5632748A.5070906@fourthworld.com> References: <5632725E.3070703@hyperactivesw.com> <5632748A.5070906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 3:33 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > get lineoffset("foo", tText,"","text") > > Why wouldn't you make it work similar to matchText(), ie matchText returns true or false regardless of whether you include a 'foundTextVarsList' but if your regular expression contains parenthesis and you have a foundTextVarsList then matchTextI() additionally populates variables for you. if matchText(tPhoneNos,"1-800 (.+)",tFreePhone) = true then --the result is true then tFreePhone is populated --the result is false then tFreePhone is empty So why not make lineOffSet always return the line number, as it already does, but include the text of the line if you add an optional parameter variable to store it in? get lineOffSet("foo",tText,3) -- returns the line number only if lineOffSet("foo",tText,3,tTextOfFoundLine) > 55 then --the result is > 0, tTextOfFoundLine is populated --do something based on lines above 55 else --the result is > 0, tTextOfFoundLine is populated --do something base on lines 55 or less end if --the result is 0 then tTextOfFoundLine is empty From mark at livecode.com Fri Oct 30 08:09:32 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 13:09:32 +0100 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=22lineAtOffset=22=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> <2e9de5425024ad62199b3cf834f0c3ca@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-10-29 22:02, Geoff Canyon wrote: > I knew there was the possibility that it was vague, so I threw it out > there > without explanation to see -- and it's vague. It's a useful trick ;) > I was definitely going for interpretation 2. So my > > item 4 of y matching "a*b" > > would be the same as your > > item 4 of y where it matches "a*b" > > and whatever the syntax, if y were > > "aloft,ahab,about,alob,atob,dog,a flub,ack,a bob,ask,a tomb" > > would return "a flub" Last night I pondered this for a while and I realized that the reason it is 'vague' (well, not entirely clear at first sight in terms of what it means at least) is because there are what you might call 'syntactic contractions' at play in both of our syntaxes. Now 'item 4 of y' makes sense - it means treat y as an item-delimited list then return the fourth item. However, if we think about what is 'going on' underneath... Then one could rephrase it as: item 4 of the items of y Then, the matching / containing / where stuff becomes an action on the list built from y that is subsequently processed: the items of y where the items of y containing the items of y matching "a*b" Imagining these forms as returning a list rather than a string, we get the syntactic sugar: item 4 of y matching "a*b" => item 4 of the items of y matching "a*b" => item 4 of the items of y where it matches "a*b" item 4 of y containing "a" => item 4 of the items of y containing "a" => item 4 of the items of y where it contains "a" This at least helps break down what is 'going on' in terms of more primitive operations (list building and filtering). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Fri Oct 30 08:29:39 2015 From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 13:29:39 +0100 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marvellous work as always Scott - thanks! :-) On 30 Oct 2015, at 12:00 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi All: > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > into a blog which you might find interesting. http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > Happy Friday. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From irog at mac.com Fri Oct 30 08:33:34 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 05:33:34 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wonderful!!! Thank you! Roger > On Oct 30, 2015, at 3:33 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Hi All: > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > into a blog which you might find interesting. http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > Happy Friday. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 08:57:44 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 08:57:44 -0400 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> <56310B11.4020101@gmail.com> Message-ID: Here is a version that puts the trailing "/" on folders and adjusts the input parameters for the function. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig -------------- function directoryListing pWhatFolder, pInvisibleFiles, pDepth -- returns a full listing of the files/folders in a given folder -- pass pInvisibleFiles = true if you want to list invisible files -- if false or no value passed, then will list only visible files -- pDepth is the maximum depth you want to penetrate to -- if no value passed, then will list all files at all depths if pInvisibleFiles = empty then put false into pInvisibleFiles if pDepth = empty then put 0 into pDepth if char -1 of pWhatFolder <> "/" then put "/" after pWhatFolder put pWhatFolder & cr into R set the directory to pWhatFolder if pDepth = 1 or the result is not empty then return R put the files into tFileList sort tFileList replace cr with cr & pWhatFolder in tFileList put pWhatFolder & tFileList & cr after R put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList sort tDirList repeat for each line L in tDirList put directoryListing((pWhatFolder & L),pInvisibleFiles,pDepth-1) after R end repeat if not pInvisibleFiles then filter R without "*/.*" end if return R end directoryListing On Oct 29, 2015, at 8:49 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > "there is a folder" and "there is a file" can distinguish between the two. > Obviously if you want to distinguish visually for the user, or to do it > without testing, then including the trailing "/" would work. > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Michael Doub wrote: > >> When I saw that the output contained both directories and files, adding >> the "/" allows you to >> easily know that you are looking at a folder rather than a file. >> >> put directoryListing(whatfolder) into foo >> repeat for each line x of foo >> if char -1 of x = "/" then >> put x & cr after directoryList >> else >> put x & cr after fileList >> end if >> >> Given a random path that could be either a directory or a file, is there a >> clever way to tell what you have? >> >> -= Mike >> >> >> On 10/28/15 10:55 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> >>> The trailing "/" is an interesting point. I checked and the "set the >>> directory" command will happily take a trailing "/" or not, but when you >>> "put the directory" you get no trailing "/" >>> >>> Given that, I'd probably leave it as is, and always assume that the >>> description of a particular directory needs to have the "/" added when >>> adding a filename or directoryname to it. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 08:59:46 2015 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 13:59:46 +0100 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just great ). Really really nice. It is exactly what people looking for. And that is why much more support of media and visual presentation is so important in LC. Maybe one little hint: On my Android the kind-of-white text is almost not readable (Samsung S5), and in daylight no chance to read. Even if it may not be as subtle, but for readability plain white would be better. Roland On 30 October 2015 at 13:33, Roger Guay wrote: > Wonderful!!! Thank you! > > Roger > > > > On Oct 30, 2015, at 3:33 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > > > Hi All: > > > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > > into a blog which you might find interesting. > http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > > > Happy Friday. > > > > Scott Rossi > > Creative Director > > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rjd318 at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 09:10:17 2015 From: rjd318 at gmail.com (rjd318) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 08:10:17 -0500 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes! That looks more than just interesting, makes me want to leave work already (but unfortunately day just started) and try some of those techniques out. Thanks, Scott! Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 30, 2015, at 5:33 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Hi All: > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > into a blog which you might find interesting. http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > Happy Friday. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 09:20:30 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 09:20:30 -0400 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: <56325328.60702@cogapp.com> References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> <56325328.60702@cogapp.com> Message-ID: While we're waiting for the Edinburgh team to implement possible solutions, you can use the lineoffsets() function that I have posted here in the past (included below). The function could be adjusted to return the text of the lines instead of the offset numbers, but probably then it should return an array. (Similar functions for itemoffsets() and wordoffsets() are fairly trivial.) The processing time for the function is fast enough that it's useful in most circumstances, even in very large texts, but in long repeat loops it will be a problem. So I would support engine/syntax changes to build something more efficient into the engine. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ------------- function lineOffsets str, pContainer, matchWhole -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the lineOffsets of str -- in pContainer -- if matchWhole = true then only whole lines are located -- else finds line matches everywhere str is part of a line in pContainer -- duplicates are stripped out -- note: to get the last lineOffset of a string in a container (often useful) -- use "item -1 of lineOffsets(...)" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware -- requires offsets() if matchWhole = empty then put false into matchWhole put offsets(str,pContainer) into offList if offList = "0" then return "0" repeat for each item i in offList put the number of lines of (char 1 to i of pContainer) into lineNbr if matchWhole then if line lineNbr of pContainer <> str then next repeat end if put 1 into A[lineNbr] -- using an array avoids duplicates end repeat put the keys of A into lineList sort lines of lineList ascending numeric replace cr with comma in lineList return lineList end lineOffsets function offsets str, pContainer -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer -- returns 0 if not found -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5" -- ie, overlapping offsets are not counted -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful) -- use "item -1 of offsets(...)" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if str is not in pContainer then return 0 put 0 into startPoint repeat put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat add thisOffset to startPoint put startPoint & comma after offsetList add length(str)-1 to startPoint end repeat return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma end offsets On Oct 29, 2015, at 1:11 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > On 29/10/2015 15:47, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Like "lineOffset", "lineAtOffset" would take the same arguments and >> operate similarly, but rather than returning the number of the matching >> line it would return the text of that line. > > > > Questions for you folks: > > > > 1. Is this as useful as I think it might be? > > > > 2.... > > > > 3. Is this worth submitting to the request queue? > > My ?0.02 for what they're worth: > > Of course this could be useful occasionally - but I'm not sure the value outweighs the cost - not so much the cost of implementation, as the cost of adding more words to the language. > > In code, it saves a single line. > > In efficiency, I grant there's a cost; but it seems to me that if the cost was high (i.e. you're searching in a really long piece of text, and you're doing it a very large number of times) then you could choose to mitigate that cost in various ways (e.g. doing split to get an array indexed by line number, or (depending on your situation) doing "offset" instead of line offset, and then taking a chunk starting sufficiently before the found character position and doing "lineoffset" on that... > > But mainly, I'm agin this proposal because, if there were to be changes to the offset suite of functions, I'd much rather that effort was spent on making them work backwards. It's fast and simple to do offset, lineoffset, etc to find the first occurrence of a fragment, or to walk 'forward' through the occurrences of a fragment; but it's neither fast nor simple to get the last occurrence, or to walk backwards through the occurences. > > There's an inconsistency here - LC makes it as easy to ask for the last item, or the third line from the end, as it does the first item, or the third line. But the *offset functions only work in one direction. > > Also note that implementing the backwards offsets needn't (I think) require adding any new keywords, because we can use the skip parameter with a negative number. > > Sorry to hijack your thread! > > Ben > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From blueback09 at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 09:26:33 2015 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 06:26:33 -0700 Subject: SGV and FE funding of widgets In-Reply-To: <96f2383be418d2d392bda104f96c7cd7@livecode.com> References: <427D263F-6CCC-465F-84D5-98A8680AF40B@knowlegistics.com> <96f2383be418d2d392bda104f96c7cd7@livecode.com> Message-ID: If it turns out that you can return a "normalized" SVG path does that mean we might be able to do some vector operations in script. Like separating/joining two different shapes/paths, or adjusting the control points of a shape? On Oct 30, 2015 04:32, "Mark Waddingham" wrote: > On 2015-10-30 10:35, Frans Schoffelen wrote: > >> So how do we get started? >> > > Well, on the SVG front things have already started: > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3089 > > This still needs a bit more work (we're hoping to have it ready for > LiveCode 8 DP9) but currently does the following: > > - Adds the ability for the engine to render SVG as part of its > libgraphics library (internal, low-level) > - Wraps this facility with canvas syntax which widgets can use > - Adds an SVGView widget which displays an svg file which has been set > on it using an 'svgText' property > > At the moment the SVG parser / renderer can cope with multiple transformed > paths and shapes in solid colors with opacity (gradients are being irksome > - there's something up with the transforms which I haven't gotten quite > right yet). > > We're also looking into allowing an image object to have its text set to > SVG, or its filename set to reference an SVG file. If we can make this work > then it means SVG will be usable (via the image object) as icons in buttons > and imageSrc references in fields (as well as patterns!). Additionally, > we'll investigate adding properties to the image object to indicate that > the SVG should be pre-rendered as an image automatically. The reality is > that compositing a pre-rendered image is a *lot* faster than rendering > anything but exceptionally simple SVG - so providing a mode where > pre-rendering occurs means that SVG used in images will have very similar > performance characteristics to non-SVG images (after the initial rendering > step). The goal here is that you can replace stacks of multi-resolution > images with a single SVG file with hopefully only a small cost to pay on > app startup. > > Another thing we could potentially do is add a 'path' property to the > graphic object which would take and return a (normalized) SVG path - I'm > still poking around to see what it would take to do this. Obviously we will > be replacing the graphic object with a new 'shape' object at some point, > however it seems sensible to try and see if we can at least add the 'path' > related facilities planned for it to the engine sooner. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tore.nilsen at me.com Fri Oct 30 09:36:50 2015 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:36:50 +0100 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will share this with my students, both to show them what can really be done in LiveCode, but also as an inspiration to think outside of the standard application window box. It is always inspiring to see Scotts work. Somehow he always manages to make it look so simple. Tore > 30. okt. 2015 kl. 11.33 skrev Scott Rossi : > > Hi All: > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > into a blog which you might find interesting. http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > Happy Friday. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From blueback09 at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 09:46:53 2015 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 06:46:53 -0700 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A lot of those could benefit from using an animated gif instead a static image. GifCam is really useful for that. http://blog.bahraniapps.com/gifcam/ On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 6:36 AM, Tore Nilsen wrote: > I will share this with my students, both to show them what can really be > done in LiveCode, but also as an inspiration to think outside of the > standard application window box. It is always inspiring to see Scotts work. > Somehow he always manages to make it look so simple. > > Tore > > > > 30. okt. 2015 kl. 11.33 skrev Scott Rossi : > > > > Hi All: > > > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > > into a blog which you might find interesting. > http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > > > Happy Friday. > > > > Scott Rossi > > Creative Director > > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 09:49:53 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 09:49:53 -0400 Subject: Why won't this work. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes. You have to use syntax that makes it plain to the engine that the variable tID should be evaluated before any action is taken. The only way to do that is to use language that can only be applied to controls, ie, setting a property. Since you can't set a property of a variable, the engine looks at the contents of the variable and sees that it's an object reference and proceeds on that basis. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Oct 30, 2015, at 1:12 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > To describe the other aspect of this, you can only use a variable > containing a long id as a reference to the underlying object if you > reference properties of the object. Hence why > > put the long id of fld "test" into tID > set the left of tID to 47 > set the vis of tID to true > set the dontwrap of tiD to false > set the htmlText of tID to "something" > set the text of tID to "something else" > > all work, but > > put "some text" into tID > > will just change the contents of the variable. I have vague memories of > some exceptions to this, but it was a long time ago, so maybe I'm wrong, or > LC has addressed the issues. > > gc > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 8:26 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > >> Try: set the text of tlongid to "my email" >> >> Otherwise, you're just putting a value into your tlongid variable, the >> same way you did with the long id of the field. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >>> On Oct 29, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Earthednet-wp >> wrote: >>> >>> Folks, >>> >>> I tried >>> Put the long id of field "email" into tlongid >>> Put "my email" into tlongid >>> >>> This does not work. >>> >>> It works if I copy the long id and paste the second line in the message >> box. >>> Seems this should work. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> William Prothero >>> http://es.earthednet.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 09:53:43 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 09:53:43 -0400 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: References: <5632EBA6.2020103@ahsoftware.net> <5632FAFD.5030609@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2DE39E3B-F947-447B-BD11-F6C6971A6AF5@gmail.com> +1. No, +2. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Oct 30, 2015, at 2:10 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 1:07 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> I just wish Apple would hurry up and announce the merger of OS X and >> iOS.... >> > > Puttin' on my holy war pants... I hope they never do this. I've seen what > Windows 10 looks like on a tablet, and (to my eye) it's a usability mess. > Touch and trackpad/mouse are too far apart to share a UI. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Oct 30 10:10:23 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:10:23 -0400 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pure Awesomeness! Thanks for sharing this. On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 6:33 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi All: > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put them > into a blog which you might find interesting. > http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > Happy Friday. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 10:13:49 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:13:49 -0400 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> <3DD9D7D0-F7D1-4A65-B164-E446E2B09369@canelasoftware.com> <5632F151.5050105@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Rewriting old code that works is extraordinarily time and labor intensive and always introduces new bugs that have to be squashed. My main project is, like yours, huge, 36,000 lines of script, 45 substacks. It's ugly in places, and I'd do much of it differently now that I've learned a few things, but it just works. I've tried to clean up the worst of the spaghetti, but only in limited ways, because chasing strands down that interweave with other modules gets very complex. I tried to port it to newer LC versions and take advantage of the expanded engine and language capabilities, and no doubt it would benefit enormously once I did that, but the time it would take would be completely prohibitive. Not to mention the time lost from my paying job because of chasing down new species of bugs. So I run it in an an increasingly antique version of LC, but it does what I need it to amazingly well. I recall reading that the NASA software for the Apollo flights was used unchanged for 20 years because no one wanted to tinker with a million lines of machine code that had been already exhaustively tested in the real world -- because the bottom line was that it had to really really really work without error every time or people would die. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Oct 30, 2015, at 5:38 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Mark Wieder > wrote: > >> >> 6.6.5? Really? >> That was so buggy I uninstalled it right after installation. >> > > Hhmmm, interesting. 6.6.5 is rock solid for me on OS X 10.4.x, 10.5.x and > 10.9.x. In the case of Tiger and Leo that's even on some old PPC machines. > > Most new stuff I do in LC7, anything quick and dirty I'm using LC8 more and > more, but my biggest project is well and truly 6.6.5. I'm going to upgrade > it to LC7 tomorrow but thankfully tomorrow never comes ;-) The code dates > back to HC, when I knew nothing, and then progressed through the time that > I thought I knew something; which was really dangerous! Most people's pride > and joy is the result of a bottle of wine and good cheese; my 'baby' is a > cat skinning exercise gone horribly wrong. Honestly the 'thing' is a > Frankenstein of code and parts* that has been hobbled together as I've > convinced myself that I know what I'm doing. Realistically it shouldn't > work - the fact it does is a testament to xTalk and the genius of Bill > Atkinson and those who've carried on that vision. > > Very grateful to the LC Team for making 6.6.5 for those of us with working > antiques. > > NOT suggesting that you have to do the same :-) GLX2 is open source right, > so people are free to fix it to meet their requirements. > > * It started out as single Stack, multi-Card format and worked on files > that I downloaded and preprocessed using various other programs. It then > morphed into a front-end to a mySQL DB with a single Card Main Stack and > multiple single Card Sub-Stacks adding AppleScript and Shell to auto > include the preprocessing and now it talks... to the Internet directly. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Oct 30 10:37:01 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:37:01 -0400 Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: <56334921.2070101@livecode.com> References: <56334921.2070101@livecode.com> Message-ID: <00c301d11320$7093a320$51bae960$@net> +1 Nice... Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Neil Roger Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 6:41 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) Amazing stuff Scott :) Going straight in my favourites! LiveCode Technical Support Lead neil at livecode.com LiveCode +44 (0) 845 219 8923. 25A Thistle Street Lane South West, Edinburgh, EH2 1EW http://www.livecode.com Facebook Twitter Youtube Linkedin On 30/10/2015 10:33, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi All: > > I started taking some past demos, articles, and techniques and put > them into a blog which you might find interesting. > http://tactilemedia.com/blog/ > > My hope is to eventually have all my demo stacks transferred to this > medium, and will post new articles here when available. > > Happy Friday. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 10:39:09 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:39:09 -0400 Subject: "lineAtOffset"? In-Reply-To: References: <56323F86.5040601@fourthworld.com> <2e9de5425024ad62199b3cf834f0c3ca@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > This at least helps break down what is 'going on' in terms of more > primitive operations (list building and filtering). Yep, agreed. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 30 10:53:20 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:53:20 +0000 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7249257E-9E5F-4132-95B3-0AABB0843783@iotecdigital.com> A correction. Like we had to for such nonsense as salt causes high blood pressure, or cholesterol is bad for you. It all makes sense... until someone actually does the science or research. But really, that paragraph about people not doing the research is a bit too much. You can't expect everyone to research every thing everyone says on a daily basis. In fact if you think about it, well into the hight 90 percentile of what we take for fact is actually taken on faith. I've never been to Spain, but I am sure it exists. But I believe it because enough trustworthy people say they have been there and can attest to it. What is really remarkable is that you can have 11 people attest to a fact so adamantly that they let themselves be tortured to death rather than recant, and most people will refuse to believe it. I guess we are of a nature that we choose to believe as it pleases us, not necessarily based upon real truth. Bob S On Oct 29, 2015, at 20:40 , Alejandro Tejada > wrote: I have mixed feelings about this news... An opportunity or a problem? http://workplacepsychology.net/2014/08/10/in-chinese-crisis-does-not-mean-danger-and-opportunity/ Al From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Oct 30 10:56:15 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:56:15 +0000 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <5632FE3E.2040406@ahsoftware.net> References: <5632EBA6.2020103@ahsoftware.net> <5632FAFD.5030609@fourthworld.com> <5632FE3E.2040406@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <6ADFB71F-6A9F-46E1-9126-6BFCE4FEBDFE@iotecdigital.com> EEEK! I just saw my digital life flash before my eyes! Bob S On Oct 29, 2015, at 22:21 , Mark Wieder > wrote: I just wish Apple would hurry up and announce the merger of OS X and iOS.... From mark at livecode.com Fri Oct 30 12:22:16 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 17:22:16 +0100 Subject: SGV and FE funding of widgets In-Reply-To: References: <427D263F-6CCC-465F-84D5-98A8680AF40B@knowlegistics.com> <96f2383be418d2d392bda104f96c7cd7@livecode.com> Message-ID: <2514234ad5ae09d00f85434e759ad9c7@livecode.com> On 2015-10-30 14:26, Matt Maier wrote: > If it turns out that you can return a "normalized" SVG path does that > mean > we might be able to do some vector operations in script. Like > separating/joining two different shapes/paths, or adjusting the control > points of a shape? I meant to actually put a footnote into that post to explain what normalized meant in this context... SVG paths have various commands which are not part of the 'standard' 2d vector path model - in particular arcs and relative commands. The code we have parses them all, but they get 'normalized' to moveto/lineto/quadcurveto/cubiccurveto/closepath thus setting an svgpath and getting it again will not necessarily roundtrip. Anyway, in terms of your actual question - you will be able to manipulate the svg paths as strings - so you'll be able to build paths up out of subpaths, and modify elements of them (by modifying the string) certainly. In terms of 'vector operations' - if you mean things like union / intersection / difference of paths then that is a lot harder. That being said, I do think Skia has added some 'PathOps' abilities for such things which we can look into leveraging. It would be nice to be able to do things like: union svg path tFoo with svg path tBar intersect svg path tFoo with svg path tBar At some point. In regards to editing the control points of a shape - then you can do that with polygonal points of graphics now (right click menu on a graphic IIRC, or you can set the 'editMode' of the graphic). We'd certainly look at extending the editTool so curves can also be edited in this way. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Fri Oct 30 13:02:15 2015 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ANN] LiveCode Blog (mostly) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1446224535440-4698311.post@n4.nabble.com> Great, thanks for sharing. Font Awesome & Scott Awesome ... what a combination. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-LiveCode-Blog-mostly-tp4698285p4698311.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Oct 30 13:31:13 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <5632FE3E.2040406@ahsoftware.net> References: <5632D7EB.1060400@fourthworld.com> <5632EBA6.2020103@ahsoftware.net> <5632FAFD.5030609@fourthworld.com> <5632FE3E.2040406@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <1446226273283-4698312.post@n4.nabble.com> Would iOS merged with OS X become OS XI? Maybe Apple System Eleven would have completely voice UI. What could go wrong? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFRoYhTJQQ Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Chromebook-deployment-tp4698264p4698312.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Oct 30 15:21:36 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:21:36 -0700 Subject: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <63BA1F11-EC2B-4713-80AC-18E6F17B7917@m-r-d.de> <562FD3E7.7060507@gmail.com> <56310B11.4020101@gmail.com> Message-ID: When I set the depth to 1 all I would get is the pWhatFolder but 2 would list the files at level 1. JB > On Oct 30, 2015, at 5:57 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > > Here is a version that puts the trailing "/" on folders and adjusts the input parameters for the function. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > -------------- > > function directoryListing pWhatFolder, pInvisibleFiles, pDepth > -- returns a full listing of the files/folders in a given folder > -- pass pInvisibleFiles = true if you want to list invisible files > -- if false or no value passed, then will list only visible files > -- pDepth is the maximum depth you want to penetrate to > -- if no value passed, then will list all files at all depths > > if pInvisibleFiles = empty then put false into pInvisibleFiles > if pDepth = empty then put 0 into pDepth > if char -1 of pWhatFolder <> "/" then put "/" after pWhatFolder > put pWhatFolder & cr into R > set the directory to pWhatFolder > if pDepth = 1 or the result is not empty then return R > put the files into tFileList > sort tFileList > replace cr with cr & pWhatFolder in tFileList > put pWhatFolder & tFileList & cr after R > put line 2 to -1 of the folders into tDirList > sort tDirList > repeat for each line L in tDirList > put directoryListing((pWhatFolder & L),pInvisibleFiles,pDepth-1) after R > end repeat > if not pInvisibleFiles then > filter R without "*/.*" > end if > return R > end directoryListing > > On Oct 29, 2015, at 8:49 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> "there is a folder" and "there is a file" can distinguish between the two. >> Obviously if you want to distinguish visually for the user, or to do it >> without testing, then including the trailing "/" would work. >> >> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Michael Doub wrote: >> >>> When I saw that the output contained both directories and files, adding >>> the "/" allows you to >>> easily know that you are looking at a folder rather than a file. >>> >>> put directoryListing(whatfolder) into foo >>> repeat for each line x of foo >>> if char -1 of x = "/" then >>> put x & cr after directoryList >>> else >>> put x & cr after fileList >>> end if >>> >>> Given a random path that could be either a directory or a file, is there a >>> clever way to tell what you have? >>> >>> -= Mike >>> >>> >>> On 10/28/15 10:55 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>> >>>> The trailing "/" is an interesting point. I checked and the "set the >>>> directory" command will happily take a trailing "/" or not, but when you >>>> "put the directory" you get no trailing "/" >>>> >>>> Given that, I'd probably leave it as is, and always assume that the >>>> description of a particular directory needs to have the "/" added when >>>> adding a filename or directoryname to it. >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Oct 30 18:33:26 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 15:33:26 -0700 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 1:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> I just wish Apple would hurry up and announce the merger of OS X and >> iOS.... >> > > Puttin' on my holy war pants... I hope they never do this. I've seen > what Windows 10 looks like on a tablet, and (to my eye) it's a > usability mess. When did Apple ever implement something in the way Microsoft does? Apple's desktop OS has always been distinguished from Microsoft's, their mobile OS is very different from Microsoft's; there's no reason to believe a convergence design would become the one area where Apple feels the need to start emulating Microsoft. > Touch and trackpad/mouse are too far apart to share a UI. They are very different, yet consider the capabilities of the iPad and the popularity of docking keyboards for them. Apple even makes one themselves now. By docking a keyboard you get half your screen back and a much better typing experience. At the point the device ergonomics are already like a laptop, with one serious downside: the "gorilla arm" Steve Jobs discussed as a problem with using touch screens with laptops. Touch is great for convenience, but pointers are great for precision. Neither is best in all circumstances; both are excellent for their own respective tasks. Why not put a trackpad on the docking keyboard, and have the best of both? Just as the Outbound predated the first Mac portable, someone's already shipping a docking keyboard for the iPad that has a trackpad: The alternative to an OS design that can gracefully adapt to different input modes is a requirement to carry both an iPad and a Macbook, one for convenience tasks and the other for when you're doing any serious work like typing or graphics - or risk "gorilla arm" with a docking keyboard that has no trackpad. Anyone who believes Apple is unable to produce a great convergence design underestimates them, and overlooks a long and distinguished history of excellence where others look clumsy. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Oct 30 20:17:05 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 17:17:05 -0700 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> On 10/30/2015 03:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Apple's desktop OS has always been distinguished from Microsoft's That's true. There's a wastebasket instead of a recycle bin. /ducking -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 11:20:21 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 08:20:21 -0700 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 10/30/2015 03:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Apple's desktop OS has always been distinguished from Microsoft's >> > > That's true. > There's a wastebasket instead of a recycle bin. > /ducking But that's MS aping Apple. The win95 interfaces was basically the multifinder (system 5, 1987) with a pair of $30 shareware extensions (be hierarchic and I forget the other one) with the apple menu dropped to the booth of the screen and renamed start. And so forth. The funniest, though, is the MS store in the mall, that came out shortly after Apple revamped--and looks suspiciously like apple store 1.0 . . . (OK, in fairness, Win 3 may have owed more to motif/X than apple, particularly the key commands) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From userev at canelasoftware.com Sat Oct 31 11:29:15 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 08:29:15 -0700 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <5632F151.5050105@ahsoftware.net> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> <3DD9D7D0-F7D1-4A65-B164-E446E2B09369@canelasoftware.com> <5632F151.5050105@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <204162B6-FCF4-4905-82A6-5EFFB582D838@canelasoftware.com> > On Oct 29, 2015, at 9:25 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > >> On 10/26/2015 09:11 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: >> I used to use this script editor full time back in the day. It is really nice to see that you are keeping it going Mark. Thought I might give it a try again and see how it goes. >> >> I am getting an answer dialog with what appears to be executionContext values after almost every action I do. I am using GLX_Code19 beta.rev, date: 2015-10-21. >> Using with LC 6.6.5 on Mac 10.10.5. >> >> Any ideas? > > 6.6.5? Really? > That was so buggy I uninstalled it right after installation. > So... no, sorry, I'm not going to try to figure out what's going on there and backfill it to try to work around the LC problems. > Ok. I will give it a try in 7.1.1 and 8. Mark From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 31 11:43:44 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 08:43:44 -0700 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <204162B6-FCF4-4905-82A6-5EFFB582D838@canelasoftware.com> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> <3DD9D7D0-F7D1-4A65-B164-E446E2B09369@canelasoftware.com> <5632F151.5050105@ahsoftware.net> <204162B6-FCF4-4905-82A6-5EFFB582D838@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <5634E1B0.8070300@ahsoftware.net> On 10/31/2015 08:29 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: > > >> On Oct 29, 2015, at 9:25 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> >>> On 10/26/2015 09:11 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: >>> I used to use this script editor full time back in the day. It is really nice to see that you are keeping it going Mark. Thought I might give it a try again and see how it goes. >>> >>> I am getting an answer dialog with what appears to be executionContext values after almost every action I do. I am using GLX_Code19 beta.rev, date: 2015-10-21. >>> Using with LC 6.6.5 on Mac 10.10.5. >>> >>> Any ideas? >> >> 6.6.5? Really? >> That was so buggy I uninstalled it right after installation. >> So... no, sorry, I'm not going to try to figure out what's going on there and backfill it to try to work around the LC problems. >> > > Ok. I will give it a try in 7.1.1 and 8. Lemme know how you get on. Things work for me in both those on OSX, but I'm about to throw down a new beta release after fixing a problem that Bob Sneidar found. And maybe deal with the external editor thing... struggling with that now. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 12:37:32 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:37:32 -0400 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> Although some pages mention a system 5, there wasn?t one. Here?s a list of system releases and dates that seems correct: http://www.computerhope.com/history/macos.htm Before System 6 came out the System and Finder had different version numbers, with Finder being a higher number. System 4.2 kinda had multifinder, but it didn?t last long before 4.3 came out. There was a significant change in System 6.0, previously developers had to code both a WaitNextEvent and GetNextEvent, to cope with whether the Mac was running multifinder or not. In 6.0 WaitNextEvent was made compatible with non-multifinder, and so developers could remove the case statements. Microsoft was one such developer that did that, and so their version of Word to support System 6.0 would not work on earlier versions. 6.0 had issues, and was quickly replaced with 6.0.1, but that was US only, it took some time until it was localized (localised), and eventually there was a 6.0.2 release. People in Europe, or at least the UK (where I was working for Apple at the time) were up in arms about the delay in getting a release that could run the new version of Word. One small claim to fame I have is that I was the first person anywhere to be running System 7 full time. I stayed with it from alpha 9, the System 7 team themselves didn?t start using it full time until alpha 11. When System 7 was released (I had been using it for about 18 months by then) I was doing a presentation at an education conference, and someone asked: ?will System 7 have the issues that System 6 had when it was first released??. I answered: ?it will be just as compatible!?. It wasn?t either helpful or accurate, but the audience were amused! On the general topic of Apple following Microsoft and vice versa, when System 8 came out the Apple reps were raving about it, but I was able to make a list of 11 of the new great features that already existed in Windows. > On Oct 31, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > The win95 interfaces was basically the multifinder (system 5, 1987) with a > pair of $30 shareware extensions (be hierarchic and I forget the other one) > with the apple menu dropped to the booth of the screen and renamed start. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Oct 31 13:22:50 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:22:50 -0700 Subject: glx2 In-Reply-To: <204162B6-FCF4-4905-82A6-5EFFB582D838@canelasoftware.com> References: <60F6D63F-9DB9-48BF-89CB-7672B9CDD552@sweattechnologies.com> <562956C7.6010904@fourthworld.com> <9ED45450-B011-4C77-90D4-F288AEDE1766@sweattechnologies.com> <5629974A.3050400@ahsoftware.net> <3D545BA4-9F7F-44F3-912A-D7D59398F229@hindu.org> <00AAC559-4338-4594-BB4B-507501A5F014@iotecdigital.com> <3DD9D7D0-F7D1-4A65-B164-E446E2B09369@canelasoftware.com> <5632F151.5050105@ahsoftware.net> <204162B6-FCF4-4905-82A6-5EFFB582D838@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <5634F8EA.1030306@ahsoftware.net> On 10/31/2015 08:29 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: > Ok. I will give it a try in 7.1.1 and 8. All right. Beta 2 is up on the website now. It's stable for me (except for the engine bug on linux), it (finally) includes the properties in clairvoyance completion, so that the typeahead function will fill out "itemd" to "itemdelimiter". ...and after thinking about the "other editor" problem for a bit, I just removed the code that checks for it. That makes for a slightly longer load time because it's a forced load of the script instead of uncompressing the stored html, but the engine is fast enough that I can't tell the difference. And the big upside is that it just works transparently and you can switch editors without problem. I still wouldn't run both editors side by side at the same time, though. I'm happy with the fact that I managed to clean out enough old unused code to get the main stack script under 10k lines. This is probably the 3.0.19 release candidate build unless someone finds something serious enough to hold it back. https://bitbucket.org/mwieder/glx2/downloads -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sat Oct 31 14:19:46 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 14:19:46 -0400 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: While multifinder was pausing an application to bring another application to the foreground, the Amiga computer was already doing true multi-tasking. It still makes me sad that the management of Commodore had no idea of what they were selling, and therefore could not market it properly. Even in video processing, the first mac was bitmap black & white, PCs were achieving 16 colors, and the Amiga had pre-photoshop like software displaying 4096 colors using their proprietary HAM mode (hold and modify). ~Roger On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > Although some pages mention a system 5, there wasn?t one. Here?s a list of > system releases and dates that seems correct: > > http://www.computerhope.com/history/macos.htm < > http://www.computerhope.com/history/macos.htm> > > Before System 6 came out the System and Finder had different version > numbers, with Finder being a higher number. System 4.2 kinda had > multifinder, but it didn?t last long before 4.3 came out. There was a > significant change in System 6.0, previously developers had to code both a > WaitNextEvent and GetNextEvent, to cope with whether the Mac was running > multifinder or not. In 6.0 WaitNextEvent was made compatible with > non-multifinder, and so developers could remove the case statements. > Microsoft was one such developer that did that, and so their version of > Word to support System 6.0 would not work on earlier versions. 6.0 had > issues, and was quickly replaced with 6.0.1, but that was US only, it took > some time until it was localized (localised), and eventually there was a > 6.0.2 release. People in Europe, or at least the UK (where I was working > for Apple at the time) were up in arms about the delay in getting a release > that could run the new version of Word. > > One small claim to fame I have is that I was the first person anywhere to > be running System 7 full time. I stayed with it from alpha 9, the System 7 > team themselves didn?t start using it full time until alpha 11. When System > 7 was released (I had been using it for about 18 months by then) I was > doing a presentation at an education conference, and someone asked: ?will > System 7 have the issues that System 6 had when it was first released??. I > answered: ?it will be just as compatible!?. It wasn?t either helpful or > accurate, but the audience were amused! > > On the general topic of Apple following Microsoft and vice versa, when > System 8 came out the Apple reps were raving about it, but I was able to > make a list of 11 of the new great features that already existed in Windows. > > > > On Oct 31, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > > > > The win95 interfaces was basically the multifinder (system 5, 1987) with > a > > pair of $30 shareware extensions (be hierarchic and I forget the other > one) > > with the apple menu dropped to the booth of the screen and renamed start. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Oct 31 15:40:22 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 14:40:22 -0500 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56351926.3030103@hyperactivesw.com> On 10/31/2015 11:37 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > Although some pages mention a system 5, there wasn?t one. Here?s a > list of system releases and dates that seems correct: http://www.computerhope.com/history/macos.htm I'm not sure that listing is correct. I have a copy of every Mac operating system ever released, and there is a System 5 and a 5.1. Also, I remember writing a silly little game for OS 5 when trying to teach myself Pascal, and that it ran for a short while until I updated to OS 6 and it broke spectacularly. That was the end of my Pascal experience. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 15:55:11 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:55:11 -0400 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <56351926.3030103@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> <56351926.3030103@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Pretty sure the system version jumped from 4.3 to 6.0, though it?s possible there may have been a US only system between the two that the rest of the world received. > On Oct 31, 2015, at 3:40 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > I'm not sure that listing is correct. I have a copy of every Mac operating system ever released, and there is a System 5 and a 5.1. Also, I remember writing a silly little game for OS 5 when trying to teach myself Pascal, and that it ran for a short while until I updated to OS 6 and it broke spectacularly. That was the end of my Pascal experience. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 15:58:45 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 21:58:45 +0200 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> <56351926.3030103@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <56351D75.9010509@gmail.com> On 31/10/15 21:55, Colin Holgate wrote: > Pretty sure the system version jumped from 4.3 to 6.0, though it?s possible there may have been a US only system between the two that the rest of the world received. > One really doesn't have to look far to check that one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS#System_Software_5 Richmond. >> On Oct 31, 2015, at 3:40 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> I'm not sure that listing is correct. I have a copy of every Mac operating system ever released, and there is a System 5 and a 5.1. Also, I remember writing a silly little game for OS 5 when trying to teach myself Pascal, and that it ran for a short while until I updated to OS 6 and it broke spectacularly. That was the end of my Pascal experience. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 16:05:04 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 16:05:04 -0400 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <56351D75.9010509@gmail.com> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> <56351926.3030103@hyperactivesw.com> <56351D75.9010509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3129F79C-0028-47AE-A1EA-A3C6273B9BBC@gmail.com> Wikipedia is one of the places that seemed wrong. It could just be that it was packaged that way in the US, elsewhere the system release didn?t really have a number as such, because System and Finder were always different, until 6.0 was released. The main thing is that there wasn?t a System 5.0, even if in some places 4.2 and 4.3 were labeled as System Software Release 5.x. > On Oct 31, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Richmond wrote: > > > One really doesn't have to look far to check that one: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS#System_Software_5 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 16:27:49 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 22:27:49 +0200 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <3129F79C-0028-47AE-A1EA-A3C6273B9BBC@gmail.com> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> <56351926.3030103@hyperactivesw.com> <56351D75.9010509@gmail.com> <3129F79C-0028-47AE-A1EA-A3C6273B9BBC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56352445.2070701@gmail.com> On 31/10/15 22:05, Colin Holgate wrote: > Wikipedia is one of the places that seemed wrong. It could just be that it was packaged that way in the US, elsewhere the system release didn?t really have a number as such, because System and Finder were always different, until 6.0 was released. > > The main thing is that there wasn?t a System 5.0, even if in some places 4.2 and 4.3 were labeled as System Software Release 5.x. Hmm: Maybe: http://www.uvlist.net/groups/info/macos5 http://www.mackido.com/History/EarlyMacOS.html R. > > >> On Oct 31, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> >> One really doesn't have to look far to check that one: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS#System_Software_5 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 16:30:37 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 22:30:37 +0200 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <3129F79C-0028-47AE-A1EA-A3C6273B9BBC@gmail.com> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> <56340881.9020402@ahsoftware.net> <60C139FA-6200-46DA-874A-65DCDC3D13EF@gmail.com> <56351926.3030103@hyperactivesw.com> <56351D75.9010509@gmail.com> <3129F79C-0028-47AE-A1EA-A3C6273B9BBC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <563524ED.7070406@gmail.com> On 31/10/15 22:05, Colin Holgate wrote: > Wikipedia is one of the places that seemed wrong. It could just be that it was packaged that way in the US, elsewhere the system release didn?t really have a number as such, because System and Finder were always different, until 6.0 was released. > > The main thing is that there wasn?t a System 5.0, even if in some places 4.2 and 4.3 were labeled as System Software Release 5.x. http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/syslist.html > > >> On Oct 31, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> >> One really doesn't have to look far to check that one: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS#System_Software_5 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 17:32:13 2015 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 17:32:13 -0400 Subject: Chromebook deployment... In-Reply-To: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> References: <5633F036.1080200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I didn't mean to imply that Apple's (future, potential) effort would ape Microsoft's work. I just listed MS's effort because it's a concrete example of the issues I see. The rest of your post seems to be implying that your version of a hybrid OS would largely resemble iOS, but with some extensions included to support trackpads. I still question the viability of such a thing, but it would at least not suffer from some of the glaring (to me, obviously, since at least millions of people seem perfectly happy with their Surfaces running Win10) usability failures -- like Excel, which (last time I checked, which was pre-Win10) had many interface elements that were 90% unusable without a trackpad (or stylus). So if Apple releases a touch-sensitive laptop that flips over to become a tablet, runs something fairly close to iOS, but with the ability to run something like LiveCode on it, I'd definitely consider it. Which makes me curious: LiveCode notwithstanding, are there iOS app equivalents for most categories at this point? Audacity, Balsamiq, Photoshop, Jira, etc., etc.? gc On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 1:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> I just wish Apple would hurry up and announce the merger of OS X and > >> iOS.... > >> > > > > Puttin' on my holy war pants... I hope they never do this. I've seen > > what Windows 10 looks like on a tablet, and (to my eye) it's a > > usability mess. > > When did Apple ever implement something in the way Microsoft does? > > Apple's desktop OS has always been distinguished from Microsoft's, their > mobile OS is very different from Microsoft's; there's no reason to believe > a convergence design would become the one area where Apple feels the need > to start emulating Microsoft. > > > > Touch and trackpad/mouse are too far apart to share a UI. > > They are very different, yet consider the capabilities of the iPad and the > popularity of docking keyboards for them. Apple even makes one themselves > now. > > By docking a keyboard you get half your screen back and a much better > typing experience. At the point the device ergonomics are already like a > laptop, with one serious downside: the "gorilla arm" Steve Jobs discussed > as a problem with using touch screens with laptops. > > Touch is great for convenience, but pointers are great for precision. > Neither is best in all circumstances; both are excellent for their own > respective tasks. > > Why not put a trackpad on the docking keyboard, and have the best of both? > > Just as the Outbound predated the first Mac portable, someone's already > shipping a docking keyboard for the iPad that has a trackpad: > < > http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/02/crux-loaded-case-almost-turns-your-ipad-into-a-laptop-for-250/ > > > > The alternative to an OS design that can gracefully adapt to different > input modes is a requirement to carry both an iPad and a Macbook, one for > convenience tasks and the other for when you're doing any serious work like > typing or graphics - or risk "gorilla arm" with a docking keyboard that has > no trackpad. > > Anyone who believes Apple is unable to produce a great convergence design > underestimates them, and overlooks a long and distinguished history of > excellence where others look clumsy. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >