Business Application Framework

Richmond richmondmathewson at
Wed Aug 12 23:02:42 CEST 2015

On 12/08/15 23:52, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Andrew Kluthe wrote:
>> ...I'm pretty shocked to that native GIT support and a proper
>> MVC-style framework for livecode isn't part of Livecode Community.
>> I think this is a big mistake on the part of the steward company
>> of this software. I get the framework thing even, almost. But
>> basic Version Control support? Wowsa. That's some third rate nickel
>> and diming of your user base.
>> All that stuff people were worried about happening a few weeks back
>> in emails, and all the damage control that was done on part of the
>> community leaders seems like it was justified after seeing this.
> To clarify, my own opinions at that time were based on a single email 
> mention of a camera widget with exotic functionality.
> Now that we're talking about a much broader scope, and especially 
> given the central role of VCS in fostering healthy open source work, 
> my opinion is now more open than before, and somewhat undecided.
> If it turns out that we've had a great open source option the whole 
> time and just never realized it, the situation is somewhat mitigated.
> I don't know if lcVCS is available under GPL-compatible license, and 
> if so that would seem a good option.   But then again, if it's a good 
> option why would LiveCode Ltd undertake the non-trivial expense of 
> writing a completely different tool?
> These are open questions, for which I currently have no answer.
> So before you feel tempted to indulge in name-calling like "fanboys" 
> and "shills", please consider that there are individuals involved, and 
> the range of opinions may be as diverse as their are people.
> My own volunteer role is to help implement an effective open source 
> strategy through community engagement.
> To the degree that this is something LiveCode Ltd is committed to, and 
> as long as we continue to see community members willing to help as we 
> have with the Documentation, Translation, and Educational Outreach 
> teams, I remain at the service of this community to help see it through.

I, for one am not going to characterise R. Gaskin or Ms Gay as 
"fanboys"; "fans" yes, but that does not mean that they are zombie-like
uncritical cheerleaders (even though . . .). I, odd as it may seem, am 
also a "fan" Big Time of LiveCode.

If I were not a fan of LiveCode I would not have spent all the time I 
have spent this evening on "that monster post" . . .but either gone and 
out another xTalk programming environment, or language, or just, simply 
kept on programming my own stuff with LiveCode as it is at the moment.

I feel for Richard Gaskin a lot as he is caught between the Devil and 
the Deep Blue Sea, and doing that for nothing as well: not "fun" at times,
I'm sure.

I also feel for Kevin Miller as I believe he is one of the most creative 
and innovative programming minds there is, and I hate to see him
mucking things up for the simple reason that he is trying to do his own 
PR when he should stick at what he does best. Perhaps, instead
of hiring the next programmer LiveCode should seriously consider hiring 
a marketing manager who knows something about phraseology
and won't send out stuff about new ideas of LiveCode that "come out all 
wrong" and use phrases [c.f. 'happy dance'] that are completely
stylistically inappropriate for that context.


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