Business Application Framework

Brahmanathaswami brahma at
Wed Aug 12 16:59:53 EDT 2015

@ Kevin: We are non-profit.. I have an Indy license solely for the iOS 
password protection requirement. Expand my use case to 10,000's of 
students and educators and hobbyists and web site owners who mix it up 
with desktop clients and server side API's like I do...if something is 
over my head, I pay for hours from the brainiacs we all know and love 
(Andre, and soon others)  we are talking 100,000 plus potential users 
who would not fall into your "serious business customers" bracket, who 
every day have to decide if they want to use Unity, Blender, PHP, Ruby, 
JS, Python for their solutions.   LC stands side by side a thriving and 
dynamically evolving world. We truly are in the middle of a digital 
revolution. Be careful not to suck the wind out of your own sails.

  If I want to put my "stack out there" and get help.. have some others 
work on it, pro bono.. .or I might pay them for 10-15 hours of work. 
Someone is inspired... to help... (Jacqueline helped me recently with a 
little puzzle module improvements.)

@Bill  Does this make me and those like us... "single developer for whom 
GIT is not important" ?   hardly... every day recently I thinking about 
this RVS thing and might resurrect Magic Carpet.

@ Kevin wrote: "Some features may filter down to open source.. but for 
the present we are focused on our serious business customers."


" It is far more than simply adding ³GitHub" to LiveCode. It brings in 
advanced concepts such as object-orientation, a model-view controller 
architecture and hooks into data sync and other heavyweight features. It 
is not for everyone. If you are an individual building an application 
then you might want to evaluate whether its worth the extra effort, 
level of complexity and abstractions associated with using it."

IMHO:  (sorry for the tough talk... we are all friends here... I love 
you all in Edinburgh! think of this as positive brainstorming... all 
team players on the same team.)

a) All your fund raising campaigns, were promises, We can sit all day 
and do triage on the roadmap, which features where promised, and to who 
and who was helping to support future development of what... etc. (I 
think you have been doing great!) but the whole spirit of where you were 
going --  your leadership message to the community was a huge promise to 
us.  Which now you say that "well some features may be beyond you... so 
we are going to charge for those." or, as some might take it  "you might 
be a dummy so you really don't need those things in  your community or 
Indy world."  I humbly suggest this is not the message you want to send 
to the world.

b) Agreed, there may certainly be some things beyond, me, but not beyond 
others in my "category" half production manager/half-executive/half 
educator/half coder  e.g. I have an indy license, can't I hire David 
Bovill or Monte to help with some module for my 100% 
free-never-see-a-penny in revenue app that I am making?

Yep I have a small budget for that but "Oh Gee, no collaborative 
framework, ouch.. .and I can't use all that other cool stuff (object 
oriented, MVC... whatever) that I thought we were all helping to pay for 
development of...."

c) suggestion:  "Some features may filter down to open source"  Don't 
wait.... parse out today, now!  Parse out what all those users who have 
PHP, Ruby, Unity, Javascript staring in their face this very moment, 
would expect and want that you now propose to put behind a paywall. Do I 
need cloud services? no... skip that one... do we all need a 
collaborative framework "duh!" How will you *ever* achieve your goal of 
have LC be one of the top ten languages with that that?  go down that 
list today. Move features over to the open source column today.

d) @ Lyn Teyla: Ditto what Lyn said... she (he?) pretty well defined c) 

e) #@ Andrew: lighten up dude!  LC still gets the job done. Give Kevin 
credit for steering the ship as well as he has... it's not an easy job!

On a positive note: At the end of the day I will still be using 
LiveCode.. in the past three weeks I'm building my first mobile app. I 
must finish a complete working prototype by September 15. (rarely do I 
have that kind of deadline)  I know for a fact that had I done this in 
any other language... or even hired someone competent in any other 
language... that we would still be at "phase one" and not anywhere near 
close to how far I have come in less than 30 man hours......

Lynn Fredricks wrote:
>> That said, I'm a single developer, so git isn't
>> >  important to me. Also, if the purpose of the Indy license was
>> >  to support single developers, working alone, would git be
>> >  particularly attractive? Just asking.
>> >  Bill
> That makes sense to me, Bill.
> I cannot comment specifically on the Business Application Framework, but if
> we are talking specifically about team features, aren't team features
> contrary to the idea of an "indie" license - which to me, suggests working
> on your own projects as an "indie" developer.
> Best regards,
> Lynn Fredricks

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