EU VAT changes & small software businesses

[Björnke von Gierke]

So basically, every one of you EU software sellers is going to be fucked.

It seems that using the MOSS is only applicable if you yourself have a VAT identification number. Furthermore it seems to be opt in and not mandatory. Nontheless, it seems to me that you then will need to do the Vat stuff by hand, especially if you do not have a registered VAT identification number yourself, and can't use the MOSS. What is the benefit of using the MOSS? They don't tell.

The rules themselves are horribly vague and open to a ton of interpretation. In regards to software, an "automatic electronic service with no human interaction" does not apply, using an example of a price comparison service site. But selling antivirus software in an automated online shop is included in the examples where the new rule applies...  where is the human interaction in that?

The best parts are those that try to deal with moving sale-targets, or people who buy something trough a local wifi, then disconnect and go trough data roaming... Hilarious, if it weren't so sad, especially as a customer supplied "billing address" is NOT a valid proof of location!

Even worse are the rules about re-sale chains, which makes determining whose countries tax in the chain of resellers to apply from hard to impossible. This is such a top down heavy and unwieldy legislature, it's a wonder it hasn't been sued on the basis of being against human rights :-P

This Austrian Page is pretty interesting for trying to be readable, but instead is a prime example of legalese-obtuse:
<https://english.bmf.gv.at/taxation/moss.html#heading_FAQs_Mini_One_Stop_Shop_MOSS_>

There's also the "practical guide" Almanach-sized PDF from the EU (love the chart on page 61):
<http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/telecom/explanatory_notes_2015_en.pdf>

VAT rules per country, so you could do it by hand I guess:
<http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/rates/vat_rates_en.pdf>


On 27 Nov 2014, at 14:23, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D <matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de> wrote:

> Hi Ian,
> 
> thanks for bringing this to my attention. Until today i was not aware  that there will be changes in EU law.
> 
> At the moment i use 2 different ways to sell my license keys (which i create with Jacques great tool Zygodact)
> 
> 1. Paypal from within my website There i am charging 19% VAT. That´s the german tax rate. 
> 
> 
> 2. Kagi. This works very good. What i really love is, that i can use my Zygodact license generation stack. Kagi sent me a Template stack in which i integrated the Zygodact key generation stack.
> So all is now working automatically. Kagi is charging the VAT according to the country of the buyer. They take some money for handling. And to be true, it´s a little more than i would pay for Paypal.
> But i can live with that, because i have no more work except waiting for my payments from them.
> 
> With Paypal i have to add each purchase to my account software/system and i have to create the license manually. With Kagi i just have to add one payment every 3 month (i set it for quarterly payment in my kagi seller account)  to my accounting software.
> 
> 
> So for me this means, i just have to stop offering PayPal as purchase option.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 27.11.2014 um 12:26 schrieb Ian Wood <revlist at azurevision.co.uk>:
>> 
>> I searched and couldn't find any discussion on the list, and this affects rather a lot of us...
>> 
>> http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/telecom/index_en.htm
>> 
>> From Jan 1st, business-to-customer software sales within the EU have to charge VAT based on the buyer's country rather than the seller's country, then paying that VAT to that country.
>> 
>> 
>> A question to anyone on the list with a smaller business or selling as an individual - what plans do you have to cope with this?
>> 
>> Ian
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