"Introducing New LiveCode Licenses"

Richmond richmondmathewson at gmail.com
Thu Oct 31 04:11:01 EDT 2013

On 10/30/2013 11:09 PM, Vaughn Clement wrote:
> Hi Richard
> I measure a program like LiveCode on its ease to learn the program. After 4
> months

It took me at least a year before I started work on anything serious 
with RunRev Livecode. But, maybe I'm a slower learner than you are, or 
my expectations are not quite so high.

>   I feel that with better documentation I would be a great deal
> further alone learning the program.

Quite honestly I have yet to encounter a programming package that has 
decent documentation,
and, frankly, Livecode's, while being a bit dicky, seems better than most.

I do like LC's built-in documentation (with all its shortcomings) 
because one doesn't have to have a socking great unwieldy tome 
slithering around on one's lap or propped somewhere inconvenient.

The BIG thing, the BIGGEST thing, about Hypercard, lest we forget, was 
its implementation of the HyperText
idea; the first really effective way to read a text or collection of 
texts in a non-linear fashion, allowing one to chart one's own 
trajectory through those texts.

Livecode's built-in documentation is an example of that sort of hypertext.

A chunky book (think of Danny Goodman's heavy number) cannot be read 
non-linearly, and loads of time is spent mucking around in the index at 
the back.

---------- One of Richmond's traditional wibbles starts now -----------

When I went to my first university, to read Philosophy, I had the chance 
to study programming in my second year, and did: largely PASCAL. The 
textbook was unreadable (well, by me at least), the lecturers were just 
sitting in the lecture hall reading from the book on their knees (no, 
that is not a joke). So I found a way to get into one of the rooms with 
the blind terminals overnight; and spent about 8 hours a night 6 days a 
week crying over the bl**dy things, and fought my way "to glory" with 

I see very little reason to change my opinion of either programming 
textbooks, or for that matter, how to learn a programming language.

In fact I would go so far as to say that I have found the programming 
textbooks I have looked at have slowed me down rather than sped me up.

---------- End of wibble --------

One of the best ways to stop getting all hot and sweaty about Livecode's 
documentation is to have a bash
with Toolbook 7.5 (dug the disks out last weekend and installed them 
into XP on VMware); or later versions
..... free headaches all round!

> Thank you
> Vaughn Clement

I do think, Vaughn, that you might want to carry on with Livecode rather 
longer than you have already before reaching such condemnatory conclusions.

Livecode is bad in parts (what isn't), and opaque in certain areas, but 
it is also really very good indeed in lots of areas, and a bit of 
patience (and some self-deprecating humour) and persistence go a long way.

All the longterm users (and I am a longterm 'ab'user) of RunRev Livecode 
are well aware of its shortcomings and the state of the documentation; 
so you need to ask yourself one question:

If things are such cr at p why have all those people stuck with Livecode so 

The answer is complex, but part of it consists of that fact that 
Livecode is most definitely NOT cr at p.


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