Wondering about LC and HTML5

[Richard Gaskin]

Chipp Walters wrote:

> So, if we focus on where the puck WILL be-- is it fair to say it's headed in
> the direction of HTML5 web apps? I dunno, but it is interesting to
> consider....

One of the aspects of the current RunRev product line that may be easy 
to forget is that they're all essentially the same engine, if-def'd for 
each platform.  One code base, many platforms, so enhancements made for 
one platform often wind up benefiting others, sometimes all of them.

In contrast, HTML (4, 5, or any other version) is based around a very 
different object model and to use it for anything but the most trivial 
pages depends heavily on CSS and JavaScript as well.

Providing robust support for for a DOM-based system like HTML/CSS/JS 
would be a radical departure from everything the company has done to 
date.  Unlike other new product initiatives, HTML/CSS/JS support would 
require the development of a whole new engine to do as well as the 
things the current RunRev lineup offers using the engine they have.

It's very easy to work with the DOM from JavaScript, and very difficult 
to do with LiveCode.

That said, one of the most useful things about CSS, JS, and HTML is that 
they're all just plain text, and LiveCode is unusually adept and 
manipulating text.

I've ported some LiveCode apps to the web, and with new versions of my 
WebMerge product I'm expanding on those systems quite a bit.

But I don't attempt to translate code.  Too much work.  There are so 
many great resources for learning JavaScript, and the language itself is 
reasonably sensible and kinda fun to use, that translation carries a 
very low ROI (usually negative).

In the 21st century, not learning JavaScript is IMNSHO the biggest 
mistake any software consultant can make.  Given the ubiquity of the 
web, the fact that JavaScript is the only native language browsers 
provide, and the many millions being poured into enhancing its 
performance and capabilities by Apple, Microsoft, Google, and others, 
there's no reason not to become competent with it.

Besides, as numerous studies show, learning new things keeps the mind 
nimble and helps prevent some of the cognitive effects of aging. :)

So my own approach is very much like Andre's, using LiveCode for its GUI 
strengths but avoiding the tilting-at-windmills of language/object model 
translation.

I've been advocating this model here for many years:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2006-June/083956.html>

There's a lot that can be done with LiveCode to build toolkits to assist 
with production of web apps, but the client-side business logic and 
interactivity in those apps is best served by writing native JavaScript.

It's not hard to learn, and it can be a lot of fun.  The tools and 
resources for learning it are completely free and widely available.

Sure, it's a bit of a mind-bender when you first get started, esp. 
coming from an xTalk background.  But what isn't?  Riding a bicycle was 
very difficult for me to get past my training wheels when I was five, 
but it's given me a lifetime of liberation and enjoyment.  Everything in 
life worth doing has a learning curve, and flexing the learning muscle 
is healthy exercise.

Dive in - the water's fine. :)

If anyone here wants a "JavaScript as a second language for xTalkers" 
tutorial I've been keeping notes on my own learning curve and would be 
willing to take a stab at providing an article at LiveCode Journal.

But really, you don't need it.  There's a LOT of good JS stuff out 
there.  This is one of the best, with excellent reference materials 
complimented by interactive exercises for nearly every topic:
<http://www.w3schools.com/>

To help put the parts into perspective the Head First series from 
O'Reilly is a good start, and their JavaScript book is as good as their 
Statistics and others in the series:
<http://tinyurl.com/44h9u6r>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv