Where does survive the inventive user ?

Peter Brigham MD pmbrig at gmail.com
Wed Jul 27 22:24:01 EDT 2011


Just to let you know that you're not alone -- I'm a similar LC user, started with HC (actually bought and read through Danny Goodman's book even before I bought my first Mac), developed a set of stacks to manage my clinical notes, incorporated more and more features, moved it over to LC a number of years ago, at which point with all of LC's capability the feature set grew even larger, now a full-fledged practice management tool, with 45 substacks, over 32,000 lines of script, couldn't manage without it. I'm not a programmer, just picked it up on the side. I have no idea how you market to people like me, but I suspect there are lots of us scattered around.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Jul 27, 2011, at 9:25 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:

> I've never been a computer professional. Not even close. I taught myself to write Basic programs for my Atari 64, mostly out of curiosity. Around 1984 I taught myself HyperCard. I wrote a variety of applications for home and business use. A pretty good phonics tutorial for my kids, among others. And I gradually cobbled together a complex set of HyperCard stacks, which I use every day to run my business. They're crude, kludgy and ugly, but they work. Many thousands of lines of script, no idea how many thousands. When I need a new feature, I write it. Often, it's working reliably in less than an hour. It's been years since I saw an error message. Sometimes I "discover" clever and useful features I wrote and forgot about.
> 
> When HyperCard became obsolete, I moved over to Runtime Revolution, which was rather an ordeal, because RR was far more complex. It's comfortable now. And now it's LiveCode, but I've barely noticed the change. LiveCode does many things I don't understand, but that's not a problem.
> 
> I still write stacks for my own use. I recently written a stack to help me study and identify photos and songs of birds. Also, I'm taking notes for a book and I've written a stack to help me organize the notes. I will eventually use the same stack to help me develop the book -- probably some kind of a one-paragraph-per-card arrangement with many summarizing, indexing, re-sequencing, search and notation features. I tweak old features and invent new ones as I go along.
> 
> None of this seems very difficult. It's a gradual transition from HyperCard. I'm not really a nerd -- computers don't fascinate me all that much. I write a stack when the time invested justifies the functionality of the final product.
> 
> It's gradually dawning on me that "programmers" like me have become rather rare. Fewer and fewer non-professionals on this list, as far as I can tell. I don't understand why, seems like a shame.
> 
> Many people have use for the kind of functionality an amateur and dabbler can get out of LiveCode, and it isn't that hard to do.
> 
> Admittedly, HyperCard was easier, simply because it was less complex. I've wondered if LiveCode might be more approachable if it had some kind of "dumb mode," sort of like the old userLevel system in HyperCard. Probably won't happen though.
> 
> FWIW...
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 5:35 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> In the old days, Hypercard was. like a viral pandemic, infected the world because it was bundled with every Macintosh. It was offered like a promotion, a possibly valuable coupon one gets in the mail, which you will at least read before throwing out, And it became a nerd fad, with many hundreds of thousands of people trying it out. Certainly only a small fraction became enamored; many of those are reading this post.
>> 
>> 
>> Without that once in a lifetime vehicle, it is an uphill battle to engage people who might fall in love with LC if they only were simply exposed to it. Worse, these days, the mindset is that everything comes in small ready-to-go packages, complete and compact. I have three kids who just don't think about building stuff, especially from raw materials. I used to, though.
>> 
>> 
>> Thank the iMac, iPhone, iPod, etc., for creating that expectation, a far cry from reading a bank of eight lights telling you what byte was currently passing by.
>> 
>> 
>> LC should be taught in the ninth grade in every school in the world. 
>> 
>> 
>> Craig Newman
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Francis Nugent Dixon <effendi at wanadoo.fr>
>> To: use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Sent: Wed, Jul 27, 2011 2:42 am
>> Subject: Where does survive the inventive user ?
>> 
>> 
>> Alejandro asks some potent questions .....
>> 
>> Question 1 - Is programming so easy ..... ?
>> 
>> I think we should ask the question "Is programming a niche occupation ?
>> 
>> During my early career, practically everybody I knew was a programmer
>> (birds of a feather flock together ?)
>> 
>> Now I am out of the industry (retired), outside of the LiveCode forum,
>> I don't know anybody who programs (although most of my acquaintances
>> have computers and Google all day, they don't WRITE programs.)
>> Programming is a mentality, and there aren't many of us who have
>> this mentality (even to make money from it). Although LiveCode is
>> a great incentive for non-programmers to "have a go" , programming
>> is limiited to a strange mind-form which even I cannot define !
>> The question should be - "What is the VISIBILTY of LiveCode to the man
>> in the street who has never even thought about programming ?"
>> And the answer is "NONE". The chances of anybody "moving in" to
>> programming are about the same as being struck by lightning.
>> 
>> Question 2  Did anyone know someone ..... ?
>> 
>> I would think that buying a mobile platform (iPhone, iPad), and
>> learning to program are two ideas so far apart, as to be unlikely.
>> I do not know anyone who has started programming because of this
>> "mobile technology" and the platforms thereon. In a recent thread
>> on the forum I voiced my "No Way Baby" intent to NOT go to mobile
>> computing, although I wrote my first program more than 50 years
>> ago, and I still program EVERY day. The cost is far too high, and
>> the returns are doubtful ! I am a rare bird who now programs for fun.
>> 
>> Question 3  Will mobile computing displace desktop computing .... ?
>> 
>> This reminds me of the 1980's question "Will Desktop computing ever
>> displace Mainframe Computing ?" A lot of people said no in them days.
>> 
>> Industry has been talking about "cloud computing" for years, and
>> IS slowly moving towards it. But, although I may accept having my
>> data in a cloud, I will always want my apps to be in my hand, so
>> I can have control over them. Renting application use out of a
>> cloud would be the same has handing over your wallet to a stranger.
>> You can see which  direction Apple is going. They want to charge
>> you for the use of YOUR OWN computer, and then for storing your
>> data in their cloud, and then for using their applications from
>> their cloud. That could cost you an arm and a leg. All my
>> communication in the hands of a stranger ? It's bad enough already!
>> God help us all in the future !
>> 
>> The problem is - it's not hype - it's tomorrows computing, and
>> I don't like the way the wind is blowing .....
>> 
>> The days when you rented an application, and you got the computer
>> for free may return. When computers become so dirt cheap that there
>> is no big profit to make, those guys "up there" have to think of a
>> new way to get your money.  We will soon be paying more for
>> communication facilities than we are spending on food
>> (si ce n'est deja fait !, as they say here)!
>> 
>> "Nothing should ever be done for the first time !"
>> 
>> -Francis
>> 
>> PS. How about the question "When will we be grafting micro-chips
>> into the brain to allow us instant and global communication, and
>> complex problem solving and decision making ?
>> 
>> 
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