[OT] Mediocre Britain

Mon Aug 29 13:00:25 EDT 2011

On 08/29/2011 06:50 PM, Camm wrote:
> This topic has been quite interesting and narrow minded ...........

Wow; how to be apparently positive while squishing at the same time  . .. :)

>
> Education systems in my experience has nothing to with the ability to grasp
> computing or software development.
>
> I have been involved with a group of senior software developers for over 20
> years in projects for manufacturing to high tech military.
> The best in the group have never been from any higher education route , no
> college , no university , no diploma or degree in sight.
> These "Morons" from Britain as some of you have suggested would out code the
> best of us for sure !

Education "systems" have never served anybody but the mediocre
and governments that want to fool their electorate into thinking
they are taking part in "the democratic process".

Educators, on the other hand, if relatively unfettered by those 
"systems" can
do great things.

My computer programming has come about, largely, in spite of my "education";
however 2 Maths teachers 'pricked' me in different ways so effectively that
programming has become a life-long passion.

However, as educational "systems" seem to become ever more conformist
and mediocre, there is a decreasing chance that good educators can find
enough elbow room to work within those systems to good effect.

Certainly, the state system in Britain (and I, for clarity, followed up 
an experimental state school with 3 private schools) is NOT stimulating, 
encouraging and allowing
exploration; what it is (and this is true of the private sector 
increasingly) is an
exam mill.

> Don't put too much faith in any countries education system , people can
> still succeed to advanced levels without it.

Of course; God bless you . . .  :)

>
> Camm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richmond
> Mathewson
> Sent: 29 August 2011 07:28
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Subject: Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain
>
> On 08/29/2011 06:08 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>> On Aug 28, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
>>
>>> Don't EVEN get me started on my students...
>>> Judy
>> I'll get you started, Judy. Maybe the catharsis will do you good.
>>
>> Both my kids went to a community college, and both got pretty good
> educations. Both have been successful academically after completing
> community college.
>> This is a summary of their many reports.
>>
>> Say my kid signs up for English 5. Because it satisfies a general
> education requirement, it draws a lot of students. You're not allowed to
> take it unless you've passed the English "placement examination." Only about
> half the incoming first-years actually pass the English placement
> examination.
>> English 5 starts out with 100 students enrolled. (These are representative
> numbers, not an exact case.) Of these 50 will never attempt to read the
> textbook, take notes, or turn in any homework. Many of these students are
> sponging off Mom, partying a lot. If they're male, they are probably smoking
> a lot of dope and playing Call of Duty all night. They've enrolled partly to
> avoid parental displeasure, to avoid getting a job, to remain eligible for
> parental health insurance, and possibly to qualify for student loans. Some
> have enrolled with the naive belief that they will "get good jobs some day"
> if they merely enroll.
>
> The real problem, here in Bulgaria, at least, is that the spongers are
> allowed up to
> 4 retakes spread over a year; and it is understood that, eventually,
> everybody will pass.
>
>> "W" day comes about half way through the semester. If you withdraw from
> the course before W day, you get a "W" instead of an "F" without any hit to
> your grade point average, though you don't get credit for the course.
>> The week before "W" day, about seventy students show up for the course.
> The rest have stopped attending, with our without Ws. The week after W day,
> about forty students show up for the course.
>> Of the remaining forty students, fifteen will fail the course. Why they
> didn't take W's when they had the chance is an ongoing mystery. Some of
> these were doomed to fail, by virtue of poor educational success in grades
> K-12.
>> The twenty-five who pass have made some effort to study.
>>
>> About eight of the original 100 will get A's. They have made at least a
> modest effort to study and do homework. The professor, in most cases, has
> bravely maintained some kind of academic standard. She has taught to the
> students who have some desire to learn.
>> Many of the students who pass the course will get Cs and Ds, representing
> little if any mastery of the material.
>
> Surely if they have 'little if any mastery of the material' they should
> simply fail?
>
>> This has been going on for years at my local community college, and likely
> many others like it around the country and maybe in the U.K., too. It is the
> unintended consequence of teaching first graders (and their parents) that
> the whole purpose of the first grade is to prepare every student for
> college.
>> I don't know where you teach, Judy. Cal State Fullerton?
>>
>> I hope it's better there than at my local community college.
> Unfortunately, you do get some of the students who got Cs and Ds at
> community college.
>
> I have an M.A. from SIUC, and was very interested to see your tiered
> approach; Universities and Community Colleges. However, in Britain that
> system has been destroyed [and, previously, it many more layers than
> yours] in that everything from a community college, through polytechnics
> are now called Universities; giving people distorted expectations, and
> losing the strengths that were quite different from those of traditional
> universities of the polytechnics and technical colleges.
>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
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