[OT] Mediocre Britain

Camm Camm29 at tesco.net
Mon Aug 29 11:50:06 EDT 2011

This topic has been quite interesting and narrow minded ...........

Education systems in my experience has nothing to with the ability to grasp
computing or software development.

I have been involved with a group of senior software developers for over 20
years in projects for manufacturing to high tech military.
The best in the group have never been from any higher education route , no
college , no university , no diploma or degree in sight. 
These "Morons" from Britain as some of you have suggested would out code the
best of us for sure !

Don't put too much faith in any countries education system , people can
still succeed to advanced levels without it.


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richmond
Sent: 29 August 2011 07:28
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

On 08/29/2011 06:08 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:
> On Aug 28, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
>> Don't EVEN get me started on my students...
>> Judy
> I'll get you started, Judy. Maybe the catharsis will do you good.
> Both my kids went to a community college, and both got pretty good
educations. Both have been successful academically after completing
community college.
> This is a summary of their many reports.
> Say my kid signs up for English 5. Because it satisfies a general
education requirement, it draws a lot of students. You're not allowed to
take it unless you've passed the English "placement examination." Only about
half the incoming first-years actually pass the English placement
> English 5 starts out with 100 students enrolled. (These are representative
numbers, not an exact case.) Of these 50 will never attempt to read the
textbook, take notes, or turn in any homework. Many of these students are
sponging off Mom, partying a lot. If they're male, they are probably smoking
a lot of dope and playing Call of Duty all night. They've enrolled partly to
avoid parental displeasure, to avoid getting a job, to remain eligible for
parental health insurance, and possibly to qualify for student loans. Some
have enrolled with the naive belief that they will "get good jobs some day"
if they merely enroll.

The real problem, here in Bulgaria, at least, is that the spongers are
allowed up to
4 retakes spread over a year; and it is understood that, eventually,
everybody will pass.

> "W" day comes about half way through the semester. If you withdraw from
the course before W day, you get a "W" instead of an "F" without any hit to
your grade point average, though you don't get credit for the course.
> The week before "W" day, about seventy students show up for the course.
The rest have stopped attending, with our without Ws. The week after W day,
about forty students show up for the course.
> Of the remaining forty students, fifteen will fail the course. Why they
didn't take W's when they had the chance is an ongoing mystery. Some of
these were doomed to fail, by virtue of poor educational success in grades
> The twenty-five who pass have made some effort to study.
> About eight of the original 100 will get A's. They have made at least a
modest effort to study and do homework. The professor, in most cases, has
bravely maintained some kind of academic standard. She has taught to the
students who have some desire to learn.
> Many of the students who pass the course will get Cs and Ds, representing
little if any mastery of the material.

Surely if they have 'little if any mastery of the material' they should 
simply fail?

> This has been going on for years at my local community college, and likely
many others like it around the country and maybe in the U.K., too. It is the
unintended consequence of teaching first graders (and their parents) that
the whole purpose of the first grade is to prepare every student for
> I don't know where you teach, Judy. Cal State Fullerton?
> I hope it's better there than at my local community college.
Unfortunately, you do get some of the students who got Cs and Ds at
community college.

I have an M.A. from SIUC, and was very interested to see your tiered 
approach; Universities and Community Colleges. However, in Britain that 
system has been destroyed [and, previously, it many more layers than 
yours] in that everything from a community college, through polytechnics 
are now called Universities; giving people distorted expectations, and 
losing the strengths that were quite different from those of traditional 
universities of the polytechnics and technical colleges.

> Cheers,
> Tim

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