Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Randall Reetz randall at
Mon Feb 2 16:50:17 EST 2009

By the way, i can see why i have confused you.  I used the word "players" when i should have said "users".  I was trying to emphasize the simultaneity of multiple user interaction on the same data across a network.  If a game engine brings a programming for the rest of us interface to simple client server and client client communication and shared data edits, then yes i want a game engine.  But to me, the phrase game engine evokes a much more complex hunk of code.  I too learn all day long from this and other lists.  There is so much knoledge and experience represented in everyone's own path.  I get frustrated when a major pradigm is ignored by this and other xtalk tools (and for a decade!).  And when the original vission of allan kay and big bill are so poorly championed in the present.  So i present my wish lists.  But the sharp rebuttles of whichh you refer are in responces to scolding and belittleing responces to simple and obvious feature requests.  Offering sockets as an interface to xtalk users is like offering bit blitters instead of graphic shape tools.  Notice what hypercard choose.  I am not demanding immediate action on my wish lists.  But ten years with no xtalked web functions?  Twenty with no xtalked curves, or live masks?  By the way, are you a stake holder in the runtime rev product or company?  Is there a way to tell who on this list is and who isnt?  Any agreement regarding the honest disclosure of conflict of interest?      As for my multithreading code.  I am on the road right now and will be uploading it to this list as soon as i am home at my backup discs.  It is less than ten pages of source.  The 3D engine is coordinate only (verticies and flat polys) in 3space.  I only mentioned these things in rebuttles to those of you who respond to my requests with attacks on my programmer's street creed... Saying i wont go to the trenches and do the dificult day to day make it work without easy tools programming.  Again, it is instructive to look at the order of these posts.  I present a wish.  The anti-new feature heavies weigh in to kill the very notion of suggesting that rev isnt complete and perfect... And doing so by attacking me as a person.  And finally... I step up to defend my ideas and my self as a person and a legitimate developer.  The causal order of events matter.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian Yennie" <briany at>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at>
Sent: 2/2/2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt


> I have never asked for a game server.  I dont build games... Have  
> never even played one.

On December 26th you started a thread asking how to build "real time  
multi-player interaction" using a "central server". That's generally  
called a game server. I was one of the people who spend a fair amount  
of time trying to show you how to do it with sockets. You weren't  
interested because the sockets API was too messy for you.

If you are going to ask how to do something, don't come back with a  
discussion on the inadequacies of the solution if you expect people to  
keep helping you out.

> All of you should be agreeing with me, not fighting me.  These  
> things i ask for are obvious ways for xtalk to do for today's  
> computing world what smalltalk and hypertalk did for the mid 1980's.

Perhaps that's the problem. We don't all agree with you, and I'm not  
so sure we should. Apparently we are missing how you have the obvious  
solutions to revolutionize programming. I disagree. Mostly I just hear  
a lot of buzz words and a desire to have Rev do everything you dream  
up, automatically.

> I am writing deep pattern engine and symantic engine in xtalk, so  
> dont dare say i am unwilling to go the coding distance.  I have  
> written self optimized multithreading into xtalk.  I wrote a  
> symantic indexing system into xtalk.  I have written a full  
> resolution independent 3D engine in xtalk.

I don't know anything about your projects, but I do know your behavior  
on the list. You raise threads about game servers, file system  
monitors and vector graphic engines, and then a week later you are on  
to something else, disgruntled that there wasn't a Rev command for  
what you wanted to do. And please, be credible about what you claim to  
have done. A "full resolution independent 3D engine"? "Self optimized  
multitreading"? Or experiments with idle handlers and drawing tools?  
Your own tone is the difference between me taking interest in what  
you've done and being completely put off. You don't have to prove  
yourself with big words - if you've done something interesting in  
xTalk this list is full of people who will fully appreciate it. Myself  
included... I discovered Hypercard in 4th grade and it still seems  
like I learn something new on this list every couple days from all  
corners of the community.

> How is the rev product threatened by deep thinking people wondering  
> aloud what features would make xtalk that much more powerful and  
> contemporary?

It's not. Please stop anointing your "deep" thoughts as something  
everyone should agree with. You are entitled to your visions for  
computing but you'll have to get used to the fact that we don't all  
agree with you or bow to your visions.

Anyway, this isn't my list any more than yours, so I'll quit taking up  
so much bandwidth. Randall, I simply think that you *could* be a  
productive contributor with interesting ideas, and I think I (among  
others) could help you quite a bit in channeling them. But right now,  
it seems like a waste of time as you mostly appear intested in  
everyone agreeing what amazing ideas you have.
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